math-and-meta

[wind spade]

cost to make that much power is roughly 100 GW + miners

so let's say over 1500 GW net power

[median heath]

Geotherm averages to 4-4.5 GW
So you can generously just say 5.
Bringing the total to ~1.79 TW

Biomass only adds to the grid if you make it into LBF.
And that would be sustainable only by finding total creatures still spawning after capping all nodes, getting their respawn timers, and then doing the math on how much LBF could be made with a perfect hunting rotation around the map.

[wind spade]

• lizard doggos

which may also add some coal for extra coal gen power 🤔

but we don't have rates for their drops so 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Killed on sight. So not applicable.

[wind spade]

well you wouldn't do that if you wanted to make most power possible, so 😛

[median heath]

Oh I still would.

[wind spade]

then you wouldn't make most power possible 😉

[fierce ruin]

whats the iron to coal ratio for steel?

[median heath]

Depends on the recipe.
Potentially zero.

If you press N and type "Steel Ingot" you will get all the information.

[fierce ruin]

ok

[vapid gorge]

!wikisearch steel

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=steel

[next pewter]

Whats the distance you need between two train tracks w curves? 2 foundations? 2.5? 3?

I did 2 but when placing signs it is shown as one block, so i assume the distance should increase.

[median heath]

Is your ENTIRE network signaled?

[deft lichen]

between as in gap foundation?

1 gap foundation is always sufficient

so track-gap-track

[median heath]

To my point: if your whole network isn't signaled, you can completely ignore what the system thinks is and is not one block, as it won't be accurate until you have signaled everything.

[shadow sinew]

I didn´t know sulfuric acid existed, but still called my sulfur area sulfuric production xd

[shadow sinew]

I just got a nice bug, I was flying over some rocks with jetpack, blew it up, then descended onto the fragments and was blown up into the air xd

honestly, this is a funny bug, it shouldn´t be fixed

The cause is pretty obvious, overlapping entities add up thier repulsive force ending with a large boost, it may be a bug of the engine itself

[oblique chasm]

Has anyone done the math on what the max amount of sink points per minute produced is?

[vapid gorge]

someone has, you can prob google it. You'll never accomplish it though

[oblique chasm]

Oh yeah ofc

And yeah i couldnt find anything from googling it

The only thing i could find was some random thing on the fandom wikia talking about how the maximum used to be around some random number with no source for the calculations

[vapid gorge]

I can't recall if greeny was going to add points in part of the experimental tools?

[oblique chasm]

Idk, but it's very much a nontrivial optimization problem, so even if the points are there on a calculator it probably won't be at all trivial to find out what to do with each resource given the amount of alternate recipies in the game

[fair geode]

break down each alternate recipe by points per raw ingredient

then just try and use as many of the resources on the map as possible to make that recipe, then use the remainder for the most valuable recipe that sets them up, repeat until you’ve used or sunk all raw resources

[wind spade]

They are in beta

[wind spade]

Yeah that wouldn't work

[fair geode]

why?

[wind spade]

how do you assign raw ingredients to a recipe?

when that depends on all the previous recipe choices

[fair geode]

idk, evaluate all the recipe permutations

[wind spade]

there's billions of them

in worst case it's around 2^200 combinations

you can also use multiple recipes for given item, in any ratio

[fair geode]

write a program to do it for you

[wind spade]

which gives you pretty much infinity options

[wind spade]

I've tried to calculate just how much storage you'd need to store the results, it's like in realm of petabytes

[fair geode]

well, i think if soemone finds a basic answer using math it may be a jumping off point to get people to do more complex theory setups to find better answers

[wind spade]

not to mention loopbacks and byproducts

[wind spade]

I have the advanced math set up tho, I know the basic math doesn't cut it

this is not a problem that you can solve by tree traversal

you have to use things like linear optimisation

[fair geode]

anyway i think if someone solves the question in any way using math it’ll drive people to prove them wrong, slowly getting us closer to the true answer

[wind spade]

we already have the true answer

this is including power production for all the production lines + 100 GW extra to cover things like trains, miners, hypertubes, etc.

[fair geode]

ic

that’s a few points per minute

[vapid gorge]

it's funny that the end sink products are only 3 dif items xD

[fair geode]

das conk crete baybee

[wind spade]

I mean the more advaced product, the more sink points, so it makes sense

[vapid gorge]

yeah but more that there isn't left over resrouces that don't quite make up those

[fair geode]

how many points cpuld you get with zero processing i wonder

[wind spade]

the only key being to sink them in proper ratio and use proper recipes to use entire map
then just sink all the remainder limestone using concrete

817140/min

[fair geode]

or like minimal processing cause i think some things aren’t sinkable?

[wind spade]

all ores are

[fair geode]

oh

[shadow sinew]

is there no recipe that uses concrete and is worth it?

like, no reinforced steel beams?

[wind spade]

there's no other resources left

only limestone

so you process it as far as you can (which is once to concrete 😄 ) and then sink

[shadow sinew]

this is fairly pedantic, but do trees regrow?

[fair geode]

are smart plates used throughout the whole game or is fully automating them en masse silly

[shadow sinew]

you could technically harvest and process the trees to increase poins

[wind spade]

we're talking about automated sink points

[wind spade]

!wikisearch smart+plating

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=smart+plating

[fair geode]

like i assume at some point i just shift from shipping my smart plates to piping them into another factory?

[shadow sinew]

yes, the tier 3 lift has recipes that use smart plating

[wind spade]

personally I'd just make them from scratch if needed later

[fair geode]

ic

i just wanted to double check i wasn’t being silly with my plan to pipe like 12 stitched plate assemblers into smart plate production

or maybe like 10 or 11 of them and store the excess

[median heath]

As it stands now the total amount of the base Project Assembly parts you need to complete the game are:

Smart Plating: 6,550
Versatile Framework: 13,000
Automated Wiring: 60,850

[spiral walrus]

on https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Resource_Node, those max per min numbers for solid resources, is that vanilla mk3 miners w/ full shards?

[wind spade]

yes

[shadow sinew]

btw, what do you get after the tier 8 elevator upgrade, is it a heavy spoiler?

[median heath]

Cosmetics

[wind spade]

not really

[primal flicker]

It's basically just bragging rights.

[shadow sinew]

I imagine it will be more when they add the tiers 9 and 10

[median heath]

Which they aren't adding.

👉 👉

[shadow sinew]

doesnt it say so when booting up the game?

[median heath]

Does a 4 year old message that they have had other priorities than making someone go change still apply?

Given they have said in interviews directly they don't want a T9-10, their preference is to expand existing tiers.

[shadow sinew]

ok, I do feel like that´s better because nuclear and aeronautical tech is kinda peak anyway

[median heath]

Precisely.

[shadow sinew]

i had heard some people claim the game was nearing full release, idk how true that is, I´ve been here only for 2 weeks, and in DC like 1 and half

[true junco]

Its... probably past the half way point.

[shadow sinew]

does anyone know which game had the longest early access?, Fortnite is prob up there

[primal flicker]

Dwarf Fortress

[shadow sinew]

how many years?

[spiral walrus]

warframe is still early access

[primal flicker]

14

Google Dwarf Fortress wiki

[shadow sinew]

I know it´s usually said that software is done when it´s done, but like, there´s a limit xd

[true junco]

Software is done when people stop working on it. 😆

[primal flicker]

Debatable.

Being in "Open Beta" is a compromise the DEVS choose to go with in order to enable them to update as often as they do.

This is especially important for Console releases because Warframe has been around since 2013 where IT WAS an early access game and a live service before "live service games" were a thing, not having this status would prevent them from keeping the console versions in line with the PC version.

[spiral walrus]

yeah, I'm aware why they did it

[shadow sinew]

I came from looking where to set up my bauxite mines and aluminium production, to reading ahead of lectures, and it´s aluminium refining and the different alloys xd

[primal flicker]

Basically it's past the v.1.0 milestone, so it's no longer EA but a live service game instead.

[spiral walrus]

still technically correct, the best kind of correct.

[shadow sinew]

oh, so that´s why, but I don´t think Dwarf Fortress falls on that category xd

[primal flicker]

DF got open alpha in 2006. It didn't look like a finished game until the end of 2022, which is arguably when it achieved 1.0 status.

[lusty summit]

for a game, Satisfactory has many many features and has a long playtime, if they decided now, if the storyline/lore part is finished they could make it a full release

the question is not that though, it's wether they are happy or want more features to be added before 1.0 release

AFAIK, there are 2 branches they are working on, the Early Acces Branch(which contains early accessa and experimental versions) and full release(1.0) branch

there are hidden features + lore added to 1.0 branch which we will only see once 1.0 hits

[true junco]

Well.

They could decide all the features they want are there, and then just focus on nailing down the bugs, terrain, and optimization, as well as the "story" implementation. And i would be fine with that, as its already a great game.

The only things i really want in SG that arent there now are almost entirely cosmetic and structural items. (Different frame and foundations shapes for example)

[median heath]

Two branches:

1. Oak
2. Maple

😉

[lusty summit]

The thing is, we all agree that we would be happy even if they decided to release the game as it is now. But idk, i have this weird feeling with this game, that if they take their time even more, it will become a masterpiece(not that is not right now, but it would be even more perfect)

so yeah, i also think we need some qol features and many more cosmetics to make it even better

[lusty summit]

[primal flicker]

Turn the entire spire coast oil supply into packaged water for sink points: Yes or No?
(1550 buildings, 20,700/min PW, 30-ish GW used)

[thorny iron]

Oil -> water?

[primal flicker]

Oil->empty canisters

[median heath]

Oil -> Fabric

[true junco]

Hell no. You get more points per oil by converting it to fabric.

[primal flicker]

30 Crude = 65 fabric + 40 packaged water, for 106.3 MW (plus H2O extractors), yielding 14.3k points

30 Crude = 180 packaged water, for 217 MW (plus H2O extractors), yielding 23.4k points

[true junco]

Oh . Sorry. I was thinking of my disposal of polymer resin byproduct. 😆

[primal flicker]

For that, especially from a fuel setup, fabric is definitely the big win.

[frosty zinc]

The polymer resin the byproduct?
If so make containers of water to sink.

Although fabric is another option.

[wind spade]

@tender iris see #math-and-meta messagefor alt recipe choices

[tender iris]

Thank you.

[primal flicker]

@strong halo

[strong halo]

thanks ill take a read

[primal flicker]

Re:RIPs, are you using an online calculator to help?

[strong halo]

i used https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/

and it worked for the most part

[primal flicker]

Where did it not work for you?

[strong halo]

it wasnt exactly right

there were always tiny gaps between production

but thats probably me just building something wrong

[strong halo]

small issue

since its all splitters the last coal gen is getting little to no.. well, coal

do i wait until theyre all full, orrrr..?

[median heath]

Tools is better 😭

[strong halo]

@primal flicker ive run into another small issue

[primal flicker]

I usually leave one generator off for a while so everything can fill. Then it stays steady as long as all belt speeds match or exceed demand.

[strong halo]

oh yeah i was about to say

nevermind its filling up

my pipes are happy

[deft lichen]

keep in mind that manifolds have a spin-up time

[strong halo]

but the flow rate keeps fluctuating

[deft lichen]

that's the major downside of manifolds to balancers, which you can counter by pre-filling (or patience)

[strong halo]

something tells me im doing something wrong

[wind spade]

yeah, you can put the junctions horizontally 😄

[strong halo]

is that the cause of the fluctuating flow rate though?

[primal flicker]

Fluctuating rate is fine. The generators "sip" 5 cubic meters at a time, each.

[strong halo]

lol nice term

alr so my setup is fine and working?

i just turn on the gens now?

[primal flicker]

As long as none is going dry, and pipes stay full, it's fine.

[deft lichen]

your setup is funky but it should work just fine

[primal flicker]

Also the vertical slanted junctions have a benefit of priority filling generators one at a time.

[strong halo]

funky is what i would describe my entire factory tbf

[primal flicker]

I've done that on purpose, for that reason, before.

[deft lichen]

I like to keep pipes ground level and instead use lifts and elevated splitters

[strong halo]

oh thats beautiful

[strong halo]

did this last time

idk why i didnt do it this time

[primal flicker]

I've done all three now. At grade, bottom fed, and top fed. They all work as long as you understand how liquids act.

[deft lichen]

my reasoning is that fluids need head lift to rise but belts don't, and the extra few meters might be the difference between an extra pump or not

[primal flicker]

*liquids

And it might be. But if it's not, it's fun to run the pipe over top of the splitters sometimes.

[wind spade]

well you still want the loop pipe to be above your feed pipe (in most cases)

[deft lichen]

for nitrogen, the inverse is true, it seemingly prefers going up if I understand it right

[primal flicker]

So weird...

It should follow Newton's Law, dammit.

[deft lichen]

yeah, realistically if it's the only matter in the pipe, it should just stick to gravity

[deft lichen]

really? I thought it has to be level to work

[wind spade]

#math-and-meta message

[deft lichen]

oh, hmmm

[strong halo]

so worth it for this spike alone

[wind spade]

it's possible to reach it with different ways, but this is afaik easiest way to almost guarantee full flow

(and makes logical sense)

[deft lichen]

you'll get the same excitement with all future power plants 😛

[strong halo]

DOPAMINE

i love this game lol

[primal flicker]

Just wait until your first successful BIG power bump. 🤤

[strong halo]

is this not considered big?

[primal flicker]

Big is relative and will constantly change as you play.

[strong halo]

fair point

[primal flicker]

I went nuts (don't go nuts) with turbo fuel and got a 120 GW bump.

[strong halo]

me who doesnt know what turbo fuel is

[primal flicker]

It's an optional path for oil-to-energy. See compacted coal. MAM, sulfur tree.

Can be an interesting challenge for mid/late game, but sulfur is a scarce resource that you will also want for batteries, nuclear power, and possibly aluminum production.

[median heath]

Useful for bullets and jetpack fuel.

Literal red herring as far as power is concerned.

[strong halo]

b-

Bullets?

[median heath]

Aye.
Prioritize MAM research if you have not been doing so.

[strong halo]

ive been trying to prioritize rotors n RIPs

[median heath]

Still in T1-2?

[strong halo]

no

tier 3 i think

[median heath]

You're never in a single tier.

They always come in pairs.

[strong halo]

yea tier 3 and 4

[median heath]

Blueprinter can help with rapid setup of lower-tier items like Rotors and RIPs if you have it.

[strong halo]

well that needds steel which i havent done yet

[median heath]

Example:
60 Iron Ingots input, 5 RIPs output.

[median heath]

Fair.

[strong halo]

it can be THAT SMALL?

mine is a mess of conveyors

[median heath]

Yup 🙂

[primal flicker]

That's what steel screws does.

[median heath]

That is not Steel Screw

That is 100% base recipes. No alts needed.

[primal flicker]

OK but steel screws does shrink footprints.

[median heath]

True, but don't misinform about my BPs please.

[primal flicker]

Had to zoom in. Now I see.

Yeah, just need to match rates through clock speeds.

[median heath]

Rotors:

45 Iron = 4 Rotors

[fair geode]

is that splitter doing a 2:1 ratio??

[median heath]

Aye.

Rotors need 20 Rods.
Rods are made in 15s.
Constructor @ 200% makes 30.
So 2/1 split, gives you the perfect 20 for Rotors and the 10 gets added to the other Constructor for the perfect amount needed for Screws.

(Given 100 Screw needs 25 Rods, so 10 + 15)

[fair geode]

ah cool

[summer flare]

It would be perfect if you did the same for the iron ingots to the constructors. There's a big empty space between those two constructors so I' sure things could be re-arranged to fit another merger in.

[median heath]

It would not be perfect, because then I am dictating HOW you make Ingots.
This setup just asks for Ingots. Whether you make them Base, Pure, or Alloy is left completely up to you.

[summer flare]

I can't see how that would come about. It's the same splitter taking 45 ingots. I'm observing that the same 2/1 split should be done after to give 30 ingots to the constructor making 30 rods and the 15 to the other.

[median heath]

Oh you're talking about making a Smelter BP, right?

[summer flare]

Nah. I was attempting to suggest the constructor inputs could be load balanced, without actually saying that 🙂

[median heath]

Why overcomplicate just for the sake of it?

[summer flare]

In this case, it's not that complicated, and then it would be perfect.

[median heath]

You and I define perfection differently.

Because try doing that to this one 🙂

@strong halo just to frazzle your brain ^ 😛

[summer flare]

Here's mine. Balanced Base Rotors, 45 Iron Ingots => 4 Rotors. Only a quarter of a tile larger than the original.

[median heath]

Yeah but now you're clipping.

No-clip version of that setup fits, but it would be much closer to a full 4x4.
Compared to the non-balancer 3x4

That is your design however, if you are happy with it, rock on. Use it everywhere.

[summer flare]

Bolted Frames? I've previously worked out the ratio of iron ore for each product and they're not friendly and the arrangement would probably occupy the 4x4 grid space on its own, so you have me there.

[median heath]

Bolted Loop.
Bolted Frame + Bolted Plate.
137.5 Iron = 5 Frames

[fierce ruin]

This is the LA Blueprints folder ?

[summer flare]

I will, and you've given me an idea so thanks for that.

[median heath]

[frosty owl]

||Note: your screenshot contains possibly identifiable information (Username in the address bar)||
That's the blueprint folder, I don't know about "LA blueprints" though...

[true fog]

||Also contains SteamID||

[frosty owl]

... Huh?

[true fog]

The numbers

I may have forgotten to remove the ping… sorry if so

[velvet cliff]

Hello guys, it has been days since I've been trying to figure out how to un/load trains without stopping any item in/output. I've figured out my own solution but I've came here to ask if you had a better one.

My solution is having two stations for loading and unloading and switching between both while using some container as buffer. While un/loading, the other station is free to move its remaining item. It's kinda expensive but it's my only solution to obtein pure 1560 items per minute with trains witch led me to think that trains aren't the best options to transfer items for production but are more useful to transfer final product. I've not been to the drone point yet. I've started playing 200h ago while trying my best to learn the game on my own but I've understood that it would be more enjoyable to learn from the community after struggling on some trivial things 💀

So, do you guys have any tips for the train problem that I'm trying to fix?

[true fog]

There's no way to prevent the pause in load/unloading. It happens because there's a (I think) 27 second pause whenever a train loads/unloads.
I haven't played too much with it, and there's a mathematial formula you can use to check for throughput. Optimal way to load/unload however is to feed both inputs/outputs into an industrial storage that is fed/emptied with a single belt.

[vapid gorge]

yeah you can never have 1 platform do 1560 pm. Just have a buffer - 2 belts from platform into ISC 1 belt out

same for the pick up platform

basically like that

[true fog]

In game it'd look like this

Of course, the containers can be angled any which way one desires

[true junco]

Well. I think you could just use 2 freight station sections. On the same train. The material flow will still stop and start from the freight stations. But by habing 4 thruput belts for the product going into 2 ISCs that merge their outputs to 2 belts you should be able to get the thruput you want unless something else is going on.

[true fog]

Yeah, more stations, more trains

[true junco]

I'm saying, same number of "stations" just more "freight loading and unloading" sections.

[true fog]

Freight Platforms?

As long as you remember 4:1, 8:2 and such for the amounts of carts/trains, there's no problem doing that.

[median heath]

4:1 hasn't been a thing since U5.

[median heath]

If you want 1560/min per platform, you use a Truck.

[velvet cliff]

Yep that's what i meant!

[velvet cliff]

Okay, I see thx!

Also why 4:1 isn't a thing anymore?

[median heath]

Trains have dynamic weight.

[true fog]

So, carrying heavier stuff now means you need more trains per cart?

[velvet cliff]

Ho, okay, same for vehicules carrying items I suppose?

[median heath]

Heaviness is determined by car fullness.

[velvet cliff]

Items have weight???

[median heath]

No.

[velvet cliff]

Ho okay okay

[true fog]

But assuming full carts, it's still 4:1?

[median heath]

No.

Elevation changes play a huge part.

[true fog]

How many trains for 4 fully loaded carts up a steep incline then?

[median heath]

Completely flat rail I've seen people do 18:1 and it worked fine.

[velvet cliff]

Damn

[median heath]

There's math for that, I can't do it off the top of my head.

[median heath]

Basically have 1 loco. Try it. If it doesn't work, add another loco. Repeat until it works.

[oblique hollow]

!wikisearch freight car

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=freight

[oblique hollow]

agh dang it

[velvet cliff]

I've succesfully climbed the steepest possible angle in a straight line at max rail length with 1:7

[oblique hollow]

!wikisearch freight+car

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=freight+car

[oblique hollow]

check that article

[velvet cliff]

But with momentum

[oblique hollow]

it has a section for slopes and weights

[median heath]

@velvet cliff concerning earlier, I coincidentally posted the maximum limits of throughput in #design-and-architecture if you want to reference it.

[velvet cliff]

Ho, neat! Thx! Also thank you, McGalleon

[shadow sinew]

radition is is way too extreme, even pure Uranium 235 under your skin wouldnt kill you nearly as fast as it does in the game

and Uranium is an Alpha emiter so it´s most of the radiation won´t penetrate

[magic island]

on a gameplay level I don't think it'd really work if radiation just gave you long-term health issues

[median heath]

Are you saying it is too extreme just by comparison or are you finding the game mechanic too punishing?

[oblique hollow]

its gotta be aggressive or do basically nothing

[shadow sinew]

I picked up a very small amount to look at it on inventory and died xd

[oblique hollow]

good

[shadow sinew]

gameplay wise it´s like in metroid where you need to unlock a specific power to progress, basically, dont get anywhere near this thing until you have the hazmat suit

[oblique hollow]

true cuz you dont even have a use for it until the very last tier

[median heath]

And what did we learn....? 🙃

[magic island]

sure, immediate damage to the health bar isn't really how it works IRL, but also there is no such thing as a health bar IRL

the game needs to give immediate negative reinforcement, not just the creeping awareness that you're going to get extremely sick in a little while

[shadow sinew]

well, aside from a radioactive cave which would have been perfect for getting quartz

[oblique hollow]

put the miner on and run away

[shadow sinew]

it´s the central one which is guarded by one of the radiation hogs, and it´s 200 m past that entrance, Im not going in that thing, I´d never get my stuff back, until hazmat at least

[oblique hollow]

its kinda clear they really, really dont want you to be there

[shadow sinew]

I just pointed it out because I´ve learnt enough about radiation exposure to probably be on more than one government watchlist xd

[oblique hollow]

im either on some chemical industry's candidate list or on a watch list for "most likely to cause a chemical accident that will be covered in another USCSB video"

[magic island]

I am a little bummed that they turned Titan Forest into such a radiation hotspot, I used to find it enjoyable as an early-game base

[oblique hollow]

i couldnt find that much radiation in there

[shadow sinew]

I hope I´m on that first, I´m getting a materials engineering degree

[oblique hollow]

neat

ive done mechatronics but i am always sort of thinking about maybe trying to study chemistry?
(not sure if organic or other xd)

[shadow sinew]

I´m def going the inorganic route, but you can see what fits you best as you go and then especialize

btw, how much higher than average is the percentage of engineers, engineering students and similar fields here? xd

[oblique hollow]

i have NO clue

wish we could have those statistics

[shadow sinew]

it´s probably like an order of magnitude xd

[primal flicker]

Former navy nuclear mechanical operator, here. I'm sure there's a lot of folks with engineering-adjacent experience or aspirations.

[median heath]

They asked me to do that, but I picked Corpsman 🙂

[primal flicker]

I should've been a MR instead of MM.

[median heath]

[primal flicker]

No MRN sub rate tho.

[shadow sinew]

so we have nuclear experts here

[primal flicker]

People with applied nuclear power experience, anyhow.

[median heath]

Yes, and they agree the mechanic in the game fits just fine.

[median heath]

If you picked up uranium and died, I refer you back to this:

[shadow sinew]

i dont complain about the mechanic, I was just mad xd

[primal flicker]

It's a game. It's fine, as a game mechanic.
And it's ludicrously misrepresentative of IRL nuclear physics.

[median heath]

I mean, waste comes out in toxic barrels.
Which is not realistic at all.

[primal flicker]

Luckily no one plays satisfactory to figure out how to build IRL nuclear power.

[median heath]

That being said

[shadow sinew]

we hope anyway

[primal flicker]

If they do, they're in for a few surprises.

[median heath]

Not keeping the OG Nuclear Plant model is one of the only mistakes I believe the devs have made.

[shadow sinew]

more than anything, it´s like way, way too much

[primal flicker]

Couldn't make the game balanced of the plants demanded 100 rods at a time and took 10 years to burn through them...

[shadow sinew]

that I feel is more of an issue, because it missrepresents the issue, and makes people want to ban nuclear IRL

[shadow sinew]

ik right, nuclear is too op IRL

[median heath]

Tbf, I think 12 cubic meters of Fuel would produce more than 150 MW/min

[oblique hollow]

they could have made it spent rods of course but eh, you kinda get attached to the funny green goopy barrel

[deft lichen]

they shifted the atmosphere of the game not not look nearly as "alien", but oh my goodness the old nuclear power plants were iconic just from their silhouette

[oblique hollow]

a cask wouldnt be relistic cause we reprocess these things

[shadow sinew]

it would look more like a nuke probably

[median heath]

Open-air ftw.
When 1.0 hits, if someone brings that model back it would be the sole mod I would consider getting.

[oblique hollow]

there is one mod that has it but its the broken non-animated one

[deft lichen]

I do not care about realism half as much as coolness

[shadow sinew]

not quite, but prob at least as much as a reentering spacecraft if it burns up a good percentage of the fuel

[primal flicker]

Expended fuel rods would be more realistic. Looks the same, almost no radiation.

[median heath]

Cooler. And also I liked the input and output being on opposite sides.

[oblique hollow]

yeah but funny green goopy barrel

[median heath]

Green goopy expended rod?

[primal flicker]

Makes me think I'll see Homer Simpson bumbling around at some point....

[shadow sinew]

the Simpsons has prob done more reputational dmg to nuclear power than a lot of actual IRL incidents

[primal flicker]

It's definitely done more damage than Satisfactory will ever do. 😂

[fair geode]

i always assumed ficsit was purposely destroying the environment with the goop

[vapid gorge]

why? you can get away with destroying very little greenery

[median heath]

Start in RD.
Use the dead bushes for biomass.

1. Wood burns better than leaves.
2. Wood turns into more biomass than leaves.
3. You're getting necessary biomass and making the biome prettier at the same time.

Single smol lap around starting zone and I have 434 wood in my inventory right now.

[fair geode]

simply handcraft everything until coal

[median heath]

Underscore logic.

😛

[primal flicker]

Based.

[median heath]

@oblique hollow probably the BEST thing to get this glitch tbh:

[molten echo]

I know I'm not supposed to build over there....
But what if hypothetically I did

[median heath]

You die.

[molten echo]

what if I have a lot of inhalers

[median heath]

You still die.

[molten echo]

:/

[median heath]

It isn't called a "death border" because you can live 😂

[primal flicker]

WAT

[vapid gorge]

sometimes when you build stuff (I think in too quick succession?) you get teh colours not built properly

[strong halo]

hey gues how do i make 255 coal / min.

[median heath]

Mine from 1 or multiple nodes.

[strong halo]

i have abouuuuut

two nodes available nearby and a third one not too far away

let me check the max on mk2 miners

riiight time to go power slug hunting

result is a juicy

[median heath]

Nice.

[long bridge]

assuming you have mk3 conveyors i would tap one coal at 270, for a whille i had 2 nodes running at 270 then i upgraded and had one at 480 and one at 270. and that was enough power for me to get to fuel plants, although im still working on my new fuel plant since i need a lot of compupers i have that factory running as we speak 🙂

[molten echo]

This feels like one of those images designed to emulate a stroke where everything looks familiar but then you realize you can't recognize anything

[thorny iron]

so if one part of my fluid system reaches the height everything does? for example 6 water extractors produce 720 and i only pump 300 up a tower into a fluid buffer all 720 in the same network can reach the height of the fluid buffer without any more pumps?

[oblique hollow]

if you reconnect the buffer to the line back down

then yes

[spice egret]

That’s what I thought, didn’t want to answer because I didn’t know for sure. So will any connected together lines use the highest head lift from any of them?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[thorny iron]

So thats why one pump works for me even though i need way more than 300 water

[barren hill]

me when i acciednlt mad a built for 360 coal and 360 iron and only was using 240 of each...

[median heath]

Been there.

[barren hill]

luckily i fixed it relativly fast and now we r making 60 steel incased beams, 24 industrial beams, and like i think 40 pipes per minute all in one area

[median heath]

I've also done the opposite, where I built for 240 of each and then sent 360 😭

Which, when you're doing sushi, completely fucks everything 😂

[barren hill]

sushi is the best tho

[median heath]

Agreed.

Just got to Steel on my newest run, so it is time for sushi.

Also got SUPER lucky on recipe rolls.

I don't think a single drive has been "wasted" so far.

-Iron Alloy
-Copper Alloy
-Cast Screw
-Bolted Plate
-Bolted Frame
-Solid Steel

Have been all my rolls for T0-4.
Absolutely zero complaints about that spread because I will use all of them.

[barren hill]

I DID IT

I GOT THE FLAT POWER LINE

[median heath]

Which will remain until you do any sort of vehicular logisitics 😛

[barren hill]

I AM GOD NO ONE CAN STOP ME

[barren hill]

nuh uh i can make it work

[median heath]

Except for the thousands of other known gods 😉

[median heath]

Stable power, yes. Flat power, no.

Trucks, Trains, and Drones all have variable draw, so no flatness.
Particle Accelerators also prevent flatness.

[barren hill]

if i math it perfectly i can make it work like time when a train is stopping to make another train go

[median heath]

You can try, but I can guarantee the game will fuck something up somewhere to ruin that system.

[barren hill]

m a t h

[median heath]

Floating point rounding errors inherent to any computer system given some numbers literally don't exist in base 2 math.

[barren hill]

perdict the rounding errors or dont use trains

[median heath]

Don't use trains is your only recourse, as errors can only be predicted that they will happen, not how.

[vapid gorge]

also don't use particle accelerators to finish phase 4

[median heath]

First time in a long time I have automated Iron Rebar in T3-4.

[frosty owl]

Tbf, I don't mean ti be a party pooper, but for your own sanity I suggest against attempting to keep a flat power draw while having vehicles and particle accelerators on the same power grid. Sinks are hard enough to keep with a constant power draw 😆
(I just use geothermal + old power plants to power everything requiring variable power :P)

[thorny iron]

I wouldn't use the Bolted Iron Plate

[median heath]

That's you.

If you think using slightly more resources to save on space is a bad trade-off, then I guess you never use Steel Screw either.

[wind spade]

I would not use cast screw but that's me xD

[median heath]

I agree to a point. I think if it's the very first drive you get at the beginning of T1-2 you'll get mileage out of it specifically in those tiers and up to when you have steel online (which is what happened).

If it is not the very first drive, then yes - skip.

[keen moss]

I literally just finished my coal-based power generation, there were 6 rows with 4 generators each...
I decided to paint the generators with rainbow colors and call it LGBT energy, it has 24 plants and produces 1800MW

[deft lichen]

How can you type this and not post some #screenshots ? 😛

[keen moss]

I'm going to reenter the game just for this

DUDE

PLEASE WAIT

[deft lichen]

🤣🤣

[keen moss]

Its not ready rn, tomorrow i can show the final result

[deft lichen]

Fabulous

I never bother painting my stuff (somehow stuck in the color gun mindset)

[keen moss]

i really recommend you to start paiting stuff, it makes your brain to see what is what

[wind spade]

buffers 🤢

they mostly just cause problems, I recommend removing them

[keen moss]

it has a good 1800 production / those 450 are from another coal production

[keen moss]

if you know how to use it, it helps A LOT

[wind spade]

best case buffer doesn't do anything
any other case it hurts you

the only relevant usecase for buffers is train station loading/unloading

[keen moss]

If I tell you that until now I don't know what buffers are, would you believe me?

[wind spade]

the building that is called "fluid buffer" maybe? 😄

[keen moss]

OMAGAH

I hadn't realized, sorry

[keen moss]

i mean, why would they cause problems? their job is to push the water

[wind spade]

no, that's a job for pumps

[deft lichen]

The production matches consumption

[keen moss]

Theyre so cute btw

[deft lichen]

And full pipes are happy pipes, you're increasing the requirement for them to get full

[wind spade]

buffers are those on the top

the thing on the pipe is a pump and that's fine to have

[keen moss]

oh

im felling so dumb rn

so sorry

[keen moss]

not that the requirement is too much

[wind spade]

what's the point of having the buffer if it's full at all time anyway?

[keen moss]

my friend said it helps stabilize the pipes, I'm a bit (really) stupid, so I buy anything he says :c

[wind spade]

yeah it doesn't

that's a common misconception

[keen moss]

@cobalt night COME HERE MY FRIEND

[keen moss]

In my head it works more to help the generators start (if for some reason) they stop

I'm going to leave them there because they are decorating...

...at least?

[vapid gorge]

Nah, at best they do nothing

[keen moss]

why they exist?

[vapid gorge]

you want all pipes full to keep things stable. Each pipe is basically just a small buffer.

[vapid gorge]

useful for moving fluids on trains

[keen moss]

:O

[wind spade]

if they stop, it's because of one of three things:

• grid crashed - usually has still water inside pipes, so not really
• water run out - here it obviously doesn't help
• coal run out - again, pipes most likely still have water, so doesn't help

[keen moss]

(I haven't even unlocked trains yet)

[wind spade]

if you want them as decorative, clip the pipe through them

[vapid gorge]

buffers also have variable head lift - so if they aren't full they will push fluids up less

[keen moss]

@cobalt night you are a backstabber

[vapid gorge]

a lot of pepole make this mistake xD

[wind spade]

it's possible they will get some rework or something that would make them more viable in the future, but for now they only serve as a buffer for fluid loading/unloading. Still better than valves though (those are pointless completely)

[keen moss]

EVEN VALVES DONT WORK?

[vapid gorge]

nah, fuck valves. Let them burn

[wind spade]

valves work differently than most people think and because you want full pipes at all times, it's kinda pointless to use valves even if they would work the way people think

[keen moss]

MY LIFE IS A LIE

[wind spade]

they also have a few issues on their own

[vapid gorge]

yeah any system that works WITH valves will work w/o them

if a system doesn't work and it has valves? the valves may be the cause xD

[keen moss]

iI thought pipes were like conveyors, they always had maximum capacity

[vapid gorge]

nah, fluids flow both ways

[wind spade]

pipes are nothing like conveyors

[vapid gorge]

people treating them like belts is what causes most issues tbh

[keen moss]

No way 😱

[wind spade]

I mean conveyors can't move things both ways, can they? 😛

[median heath]

First step to understanding pipes is to stop thinking about them in terms of belts.

[vapid gorge]

piping also gets pretty after coal gens. Becomes a bit more fiddly

[keen moss]

PIPES CAN?

[wind spade]

well... yeah

how would you define which way the pipe flows?

there's no limitation on it

[keen moss]

The pumps?

[vapid gorge]

it only stops it from moving back at that point

[wind spade]

pumps only make sure that fluid go one-way from one end of pump to another

but nothing stops fluids from going backwards in a pipe section

[keen moss]

:) :| :( :c

[median heath]

Pumps are for going up.
If you're not going up, no pump needed.

[vapid gorge]

but that's why you flood pipes. You'll be fine.

[keen moss]

Gravity is real in water pipes?

[wind spade]

yes

or rather "real", a.k.a. similar to real life

[median heath]

You can put more in pipes than water.

Also please read the building descriptions.

[keen moss]

😭

• I'm impressed you thought that work like conveyors
• that's bullying

[median heath]

Why?

[keen moss]

Why what

[strong halo]

That's fucking awesome lol

[mild sandal]

ey guys anyone plz could help me left side of the pipe has full fuel

the right side has 0 fuel :S

[vapid gorge]

would need to see a zoomed out image of the layout - maybe from a scout tower

[mild sandal]

thats my pipe connection

[vapid gorge]

rebuild the pipe maybe? but get rid of the buffers

and the valve I think I see in the corner

[deft lichen]

remove the valve

[vapid gorge]

and the buffers

[mild sandal]

i was removing pipes and this appear

cant remove it

[vapid gorge]

save and reload

[mild sandal]

already do it

[oblique hollow]

for reference: thats a flow compensator

though i would have added 2 pumps here. Itss probably better to get it to work normally first before adding such funny circuits to it

[wind spade]

I see two broken things, I call for removal 😄

[sand epoch]

Generators in the water. Foundations, you need some.

[winged knot]

ему похуй

[median heath]

English server.

[winged knot]

sry

[ornate nimbus]

anybody know where I can get guidance on drone max throughput? I don't know if this is the right channel

[wind spade]

the drone station should calculate the throughput 🤔

[median heath]

Drone maxthrough is equal to whatever belt mk you have connected.

[vapid gorge]

you may need more than 1 drone between 2 points though.

[ornate nimbus]

yes but I know there's some kind of limit because the drones also have small inventory space

[median heath]

The limit is whatever belt mk you have connected.

[ornate nimbus]

basically I have two drone ports that I'm planning on using to deliver 1440 packaged water per min total

[median heath]

If you connect a mk1 - the limit is 60
If you connect a mk2 - the limit is 120
And so on

[vapid gorge]

yeah but I think they mean per drone - so figuring out how many drones you need.

[ornate nimbus]

exactly

[median heath]

Use 1.
If 1 isn't working, add another one.
Repeat until you get the results you want.

There is no belt that can handle 1440. So you will need 4 ports minimum (2 at each end)

[vapid gorge]

for 1440 you'd probably need 2 drone ports on each end minimum. Each with 2 doing the back and forth. I've heard 1 drone can do 300ish

[ornate nimbus]

I already have the space for 2 drone ports so I decided to just lay down two

[ornate nimbus]

yeah, and I figure the belts shouldn't be a problem since I can use mk5 on each port

[west moat]

i appear

[vapid gorge]

@west moat yo

ok so everyone learns differently and have different abilities to visualize things

the reason I was talking about those math problems is because they're used to not just practice math but create reasoning skills

[west moat]

mhm

[vapid gorge]

you would have seen similar with pythagoras when you'd have a question to find an angle looking up to the top of a ladder or something?

[median heath]

No. There is only 1 correct way to learn.

[vapid gorge]

shoo

[west moat]

lmfao exactly that

[vapid gorge]

ok so just from how you've described stuff it sounds like you probably would benefit from drawing things out and taking a few notes rather than juggling everything in your head? am I off the mark?

[west moat]

depends on the task

if it needs heavy reasoning i need to write stuff down, but im really good at improvizing

[vapid gorge]

fair
improvising with pipes is not suggested though 😄 at least if you want stable flow

[west moat]

i figured that out really fast 😭

[vapid gorge]

did you want to work on some examples? if so you could share some over head shots of your working generator system?

[west moat]

?

[vapid gorge]

well you said you managed to get your first one working right? but you tried again but didn't?

[west moat]

what do you mean by "did you want to work on some examples?"

[vapid gorge]

well I was going to look at what you did and tried and then work through with you how to fix it as 'an example'

[west moat]

oh sure

[vapid gorge]

maybe some other student in the class can field this one, Sev

[median heath]

About to nap anyway.

[west moat]

i mostly struggle with figuring out how the up/down works for the pipes

[median heath]

If up - pump.
If not up - no pump.

[west moat]

beautiful

[vapid gorge]

sure and we can work on that.

But with piping images are key. It's almost impossible to trouble shoot piping w/o good images

[median heath]

Happy learning! 🛏️

[west moat]

these are the pipes under the coal plant

i'll take a picture of the ones from the extractor

[wind spade]

one recommendation is to feed from above, often helps

[vapid gorge]

can you build a tower and take some overhead shots? try to encompase the layout in 1 or 2 images

[vapid gorge]

too many cooks 😛

[west moat]

way ahead of ya, i've got an entire network of pylons

why? idk i love infrastructure

[vapid gorge]

then you're in the right game 😄

[west moat]

cool overhead zipline shot go

[vapid gorge]

great! one sec

[west moat]

and this is down under

[vapid gorge]

since some of it is hidden - is the pipe set up like this?

w = water extractor

[west moat]

yes like that

[vapid gorge]

ok and how many gens do you have ? 2 rows of 8?

[west moat]

yup

[vapid gorge]

ok so how about, since we know we shouldn't wing pipes now, you sketch this out too

good practice

paper or paint or however you like

[west moat]

i got procreate

[vapid gorge]

oh easy and fast. Add to what I did with the generators and the pipes to them. do it fairly basic for ease

[west moat]

disclaimer: bad handwriting

[vapid gorge]

nw

[west moat]

c = coal plant

[vapid gorge]

perfect!
Now am I right that you built one side that seemed to work and then tried the other and it's not?

[west moat]

close

the side on the right has a little less flow and the first 6 (first 3 of each row) are very inconsistent

[vapid gorge]

ok so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say one side never worked in a stable way

what did it look like before you added the 2nd wing?

[west moat]

chop off everything to the right of the middle water extractor including itself

actually lemme illustrate

[vapid gorge]

But no right side right?

[vapid gorge]

oh you rebuilt it completely?

[west moat]

yes

i kept the plants

but the rest was moved back to make space for more plants

[vapid gorge]

so on here a good exercise woudl be to mark out how much water is going where for example you'd put +120 on each of the little branches from the W right?

[vapid gorge]

cool! now how much does each gen need?

[west moat]

45/m

[vapid gorge]

alright so at the top the flow/consumption could probably be shown like this right?

[west moat]

I think it would be more logical if the 45 was above the arrow for each coal plant

[vapid gorge]

sure

make sense?

[west moat]

yes

[vapid gorge]

ok so since the top 2 are getting 45 pm from the top extractor, how much is the 3rd gen getting?

[west moat]

might also be a good time to mention I'm on the spectrum

[west moat]

45

no wait 30

[vapid gorge]

from the top extractor?

yup! write that in 😄

[median heath]

@vapid gorge plz check your messages.

[vapid gorge]

cool - So you have some production and consumption right? Try to fill out what the bottom end looks like. Maybe in another colour to distinguish

[vapid gorge]

Cool! and the lowest coal gens and water extractors would be similar right?

[west moat]

I'd assume so

[vapid gorge]

fill those in real quick

[vapid gorge]

great. Now since the diagram is a little crunched I made this one for the centre part

on the red points put how much fluid will move to different sections in the middle. Assume the tops and bottoms still exist

[west moat]

I don't understand your diagram here

[vapid gorge]

Sorry one sec

[west moat]

Why's there a line at the top

[vapid gorge]

that was left over, I should have deleted it

so the other two sections exist but we aren't thinking about them for now

[vapid gorge]

these two were getting 15 from the others though right? I suspected I should have kept it one big diagram

[west moat]

ohh

[vapid gorge]

Can you work through it as it is considering the other two diagrams or should we make a bigger clearer one?

[west moat]

A bigger one would help paint the bigger picture

[vapid gorge]

Did you want to make it yourself or would you like me to make a fresh one?

[west moat]

I think I can try

[vapid gorge]

Perfect!
So quick question - how much can a mk1 pipe move per min?

[west moat]

300

[vapid gorge]

ok and the 3x water extractors make 360 pm right? so how is this working?

[west moat]

When all the coal factories get filled up they act as a buffer so when they start draining the pipes can refill them in time

[vapid gorge]

Not quiiiite, think of each section

like how much water needs to flow per min here ?

[west moat]

90

[west moat]

40?

[vapid gorge]

30 remember 🙂

we have 45 going to the bottom, 45 going to the middle - and 30 is the remainder

[west moat]

ohhh

ohh now i understand the image

[vapid gorge]

so with this example - do you think there's any point on your main diagram that moves more than 300?

[west moat]

no

[vapid gorge]

because...

[west moat]

because the pipes arent one long stretch

they're devided to spread the flow

[vapid gorge]

and...

[west moat]

?

[vapid gorge]

some of it is getting consumed on the way right?

but yes you're correct 🙂

Now getting back to why I got you to do this

tell me why this doesn't work

[west moat]

holy shit moment of clarity

because its pushing 420 m3 through the pipes on either side

[vapid gorge]

pretty much 🙂

[west moat]

👏

[vapid gorge]

So a couple things

1st - the diagrams we did? it's just a visualization.

pipe flow doesn't work exactly like that because fluid goes both ways

but if you flood a system before turning it fully on it'll effectively work that way

[west moat]

as in directional or as in both ways

[vapid gorge]

you can't treat pipes like belts though and I think this is a good example of it

[vapid gorge]

both ways

[west moat]

then what the hell does this indicate

[vapid gorge]

Flooding a system before turning it on though helps keep pipe flow stable

[vapid gorge]

if fluids are pumping essentially

[west moat]

doesnt this show its going right > left?

[vapid gorge]

I think in general it does but only because they appear on longer segments that you build to flow

Just because fluids CAN flow in both directions doesn't mean we want them to
And because in general you make it on one end and consume it on the other on average they'll have 1 direction

but if there's empty sections in pipes from being consumed or the pipe isn't full there can be 'sloshing' and 'backflow'

Full pipes help manage direction by not leaving empty gaps

[west moat]

ahhh

i see

is there anything else i need to understand about pipes?

[vapid gorge]

Yes but don't stress out about it now.

[west moat]

so i can go T5-6?

[vapid gorge]

for now something like this might fix your problem right

[west moat]

wouldnt T2 pipes fix this issue aswell due to larger capacity?

[vapid gorge]

in this specific situation? sure.

[west moat]

knew it

[vapid gorge]

probably

[west moat]

well in theory it should

[vapid gorge]

we're stepping into new pipe info though

So some basic pipe strategies

1. keep pipes simple. If Point B neex X fluid per min? Have Point A send X fluid per min. Don't split and merge groups

[west moat]

now i wait for my frameworks to finish'

[west moat]

thats what i always do lol

same goes for ore refineries

[vapid gorge]

you merged those 😛

[west moat]

n for calculator my beloved

[west moat]

yes but its also slighlty because i asked another friend and they said that might work xD

they also said to try and use a watertower

[vapid gorge]

fair enough 😄

2. Don't use valves buffers or water towers

the first two because they don't do what you think they do, the 3rd because water towers just add complexity and at best saves you very little power

[west moat]

gotcha

[vapid gorge]

Mess with water towers when you're comfy with pipes

3. Flood your system before turning on the step: do this by leaving 1 or 2 machines at 50% clocking so it floods everything and after everything is full turn them back to full

4. This is something you'll be getting into - loop your pipe manifolds

do you know the term manifold?

[west moat]

heard of it but not familiar

[vapid gorge]

so pipe or belt line feeding multiple machines like this

or like this

the full term is 'over flow manifold', because the first machines will get full first and over flow more items down the line

[west moat]

oh hey thats how i do the coal distribution

[vapid gorge]

with pipes later on most systems people build will need the pipe looped like this for example

the bottom junctions feed to machines , the incoming fluid comes from the top left

[west moat]

whats the point of this part?

[vapid gorge]

that connects it as a loop - otherwise it's just a U shape

[west moat]

oh so its a bypass?

[vapid gorge]

I guess you could call it that? the important part is it forms a closed loop

[west moat]

i think i get it

[vapid gorge]

can you guess why a loop is useful?

[west moat]

the top extension is for feeding, then the "bypass" is too complete the loop and the bottom junctions are for giving

[west moat]

to keep the pipes full

[vapid gorge]

Yes but also to manage the back flow I was talking about

A lot of systems people build later on will need it. Machines along the manifold will suck fluid out from the middle and sometimes fluid further along will decide that Behind them is more empty and flow back

if you flood a system with a loop then it doesn't matter if there's a bit of back flow in the centre as the fluid has 2 paths

[west moat]

ahh

[vapid gorge]

1. Keep pipes simple. If Point B neex X fluid per min? Have Point A send X fluid per min. Don't split and merge groups

2. Don't use valves buffers or water towers

3. Flood your system before turning on the step: do this by leaving 1 or 2 machines at 50% clocking so it floods everything and after everything is full turn them back to full

4. This is something you'll be getting into - loop your pipe manifolds

Save this msg if you think it might help later 🙂

[west moat]

hey my frameworks are done

noted it

[vapid gorge]

oh and feeding from below like your coal gens can cause issues from here on out - it's generally considered safer to feed from the side or above

if you do want to feed from below still I've found this to be a safe design

[west moat]

alright thanks

[vapid gorge]

No prob! gl with stuff, I gotta take care of the animals 🙂

[median heath]

@west moat to add on to this discussion:

1. Do not ever think about pipes in terms of belts.
2. See 1.
3. Now add all the numbered points Cobalt gave you.

[vapid gorge]

I mentioned this 😛

[median heath]

Not as adamantly as I would have liked. 😛

[fierce ruin]

Please help

I have no idea how to do this

How do I split it?

[median heath]

Single splitter.

[fierce ruin]

Could you elaborate?

[median heath]

Grand total is 105.75, right?

[fierce ruin]

(Not very good at this)

Correct

[median heath]

Divide by 3 to get 35.25, right?

What happens when you send 35.25 to something that can take only 24?

[fierce ruin]

Overflow?

[median heath]

Correct. So now for the other 2 outputs, your total is 81.75.
Divide by 2 to get 40.875.
Same thing happens when you send 40.875 to something that can take only 34.5

Meaning your final total is 47.25, to an output that wants 47.25.

[spiral walrus]

just make sure the downstream is over/under clocked appropriately.

[fierce ruin]

Thank you sir, I think I understand

[median heath]

[vapid gorge]

@solar parrot whats going on with them?

[solar parrot]

it was one of the pipe was not feeding into the other ive fix it now. thx any

[median heath]

Unfix it so he can help you.

[fierce ruin]

How do I split this perfectly?

[median heath]

What's your highest belt mk?

[fierce ruin]

270

[median heath]

Same thing as before.
One splitter.

[vapid gorge]

there's more than one way but that is the simplest

[fierce ruin]

Sir, could you please explain it to me more simple, it took me ages to wrap my head around what you said before

[median heath]

63 + 75 = 138, yes?

[fierce ruin]

Correct

[median heath]

138 / 2 = 69
What happens when you send 69 to something that can take only 63?

[fierce ruin]

So more overflow

[median heath]

Welcome to manifolding.

[fierce ruin]

Alright?

[vapid gorge]

do you understand what you mean by overflow? cause it looked like you got it last time

[fierce ruin]

Just trying to wrap my head around the damn calculations and such, sorry and thank you

[vapid gorge]

no calculations needed 🙂 this is splitting a belt 11 times and it'll work

[knotty ginkgo]

Calculations don't matter, just build 1-2 more smelters or constructor down if anything stocks

[fierce ruin]

😵

[median heath]

The beauty of manifolding and why it is used by the vast majority, is because it ignores calculations.

The only thing you care about is "Am I sending the correct amount down the belt."
If yes - belt will figure it out for you. @fierce ruin

[vapid gorge]

All you have to calculate is if you're sending enough from Point A to Point B and if your belt can handle the volume

[fierce ruin]

Alright

[vapid gorge]

Ignore Drey

[fierce ruin]

Is that the entire thing explained?

[fierce ruin]

Oh I'm aware haha

[median heath]

Hence why my first question was about belt mk.
If the 1 belt can handle the whole amount, you're good. Splitters will self-balance as the input flow is infinite.

[median heath]

Pretty much, yes.

[knotty ginkgo]

Harsh, it's 2 times faster to simple expand if something isn't working

[vapid gorge]

Sometimes it DOES take a while for it to self balance. Things with screws or wire could be 30 min + , but you can hand fill machines to skip that at the start

[vapid gorge]

but that doesn't solve the problem 😛 just throwing things and seeing if it sticks

[median heath]

^ Can skip this by prefeeding.

[fierce ruin]

Alright, thank you very much 🙏

Much appreciated

[fair geode]

if you build from resource source to finished product, ou can throw down a storage container after each stage to fill up while you build the next set of machines, then use those resources to pre fill ur machines for each stage

[rigid aurora]

@vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

gasses you said?

[rigid aurora]

that pipe just empties itself continuously

[vapid gorge]

gasses or water?

that looks like water

[rigid aurora]

ist water but im using the fluid are gases mod

[vapid gorge]

wel lmy first guess is that having a bunch of splits and feeding from below is messing things up. Keep pipes simple. You're not using buffers are you?

[deft lichen]

Why on earth would you want all fluids to behave like gases

[rigid aurora]

nope no buffer, its goin to coal generators

[deft lichen]

Dealing with nitrogen is insanely irritating because it tries go push upwards on its own

[rigid aurora]

no pumps needed

[wind spade]

yeah I'm guessing that mod is one of the sources of issues

[vapid gorge]

simplify your pipes , don't feed from below, don't use floor holes they can be bugged

[vapid gorge]

Gasses are much more of a hassle to manage than liquids - not worth it

[deft lichen]

Yeah, and also no flow if you build it wrong

Whereas fluids with pumps work fine

[rigid aurora]

i think that mod is just removing the headlift

[vapid gorge]

possibly? that might make it worse

gas behaviour is much more annoying

[rigid aurora]

valves didnt help either

[deft lichen]

If you're having problems with fluids, why not try to understand them rather than avoiding them and getting a whole different set or problems instead

[wind spade]

valves never help

[vapid gorge]

dont' use valves or buffers

and my original statement stands

"simplify your pipes , don't feed from below, don't use floor holes they can be bugged"

[deft lichen]

Uninstall the mod, and use pumps

[wind spade]

and loop the pipes

[deft lichen]

Or just build the setup near the water source to avoid pumps

[vapid gorge]

with coal gens generally not needed

[deft lichen]

You can easily avoid pumps through most of the game

[wind spade]

well yeah I was talking more in general with pipes

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, they're just on coal gens atm

[rigid aurora]

thx guys

[rigid aurora]

i cant ^^

[wind spade]

oh god

[rigid aurora]

i know i hate it too but i aint gonna spent ages on doing that looking good ^^

[deft lichen]

Well, I'm afraid we can't provide anymore help

[rigid aurora]

nah u good i made it simple it works just as supposed to be

[frosty owl]

Don't be a slacker and get in game to help!

[rigid aurora]

he would get headache after headache ^^

[rigid aurora]

huh? it crashed while i tried deleting a bp

[vapid gorge]

did you make the bp with mods?

[primal flicker]

That happened to a server I've been on lately. No mods, but there was a blueprint machine that could not be cleared without crashing the game.

[rigid aurora]

bruh it was just power storage

[spiral walrus]

you certainly can, just manifold them all together and set up a headlift loop.

[primal flicker]

How are you going to connect them all with so much clipping?

[rigid aurora]

nah just covering it and forget bout it is a good way there^^

[spiral walrus]

you hide the crime elsewhere

[rigid aurora]

its all connectet

its 484

[primal flicker]

Oh, so you just need to add a water tower at the extractors (hypothetically)

[rigid aurora]

4 x 8 x4 pipes

[spiral walrus]

you don't even need a water tower if they are all connected together. you just need one of the line to have little waterpump loops

[west moat]

@vapid gorge sorry for ping idk if you mind them

just wanna say you helped me alot yesterday and i got the stuff working!

[knotty ginkgo]

The water towers without any pumps in satis are kinda cheesy/abusing game mechanics, since it would not work out in reality at all, right?

[wind spade]

that's... exactly how it works in real life

you have a large container of water that's high up, pumps put water into it and then it naturally flows "downards" to consumers

[knotty ginkgo]

But you need pumps to get the water up

[wind spade]

well yeah

but you need them in SF as well

[knotty ginkgo]

But a single small container is able to feed an entire giga factory with it's pressure

Something is wrong

[wind spade]

satisfactory doesn't have pressure

[soft trail]

when was that?

[spice junco]

Idk if this counts, but I made a small "wrapper" that fixes the issues with 50-99% upscaling resolutions:
https://github.com/Neon-Cube/ficsitwrapper

[brisk shore]

Official Modding Discord

Learn all about modding and join the community here!
<3 @median heath

[median heath]

I am 99.99% sure that belongs in the other discord.

[spice junco]

it's not a mod tho?

[median heath]

Code not written by developers that alters the way the game operates.

You have another definition?

[vague chasm]

Better posted on the modding Discord, indeed. But no worries 🙂

[vapid gorge]

yeah of course! any time!

[oblique chasm]

How would one go about getting the clearance boxes of buildings?

[wind spade]

still modding discord? 🙂

[vapid gorge]

@wind spade I don't know if this matters - but the compacted steel ingot shows -0x foundries needed sending -0 steel ingots pm https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=OyE2keIPhDsa3HPenFnz

actually jsut getting some weird floating boxes https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=CHkoc57JYRrSzFQ7GH6g

[primal flicker]

Madman

[vapid gorge]

just playing with numbers

[primal flicker]

Valid

1350 makes a prettier set of numbers tho

[vapid gorge]

oh?

hmm whats more pretty about it?

[vapid gorge]

@median heath , I was playing around with the idea of doing a screw heavy MF unit and have some very satisfying numbers

no repeating decimals

[median heath]

Screw-heavy Frames
Or
Screw HMFs

?

[vapid gorge]

just modular frames for now - maybe heavy later

steel coated plate
steel screw
bolted plate
bolted frame

[median heath]

Bolted Loop ftw.

[vapid gorge]

59 steel 10.4 plast pm = 10.4 mf pm

[median heath]

But if you want to bring Steel in then it changes, yeah.

[vapid gorge]

could make a very nice sushi line with it

if you send beams, steel ingots, plastic down a line it's only 36.6 ppm per unit making mfs

[median heath]

Bolted Loop is just like 133.75 Iron = 5 Frames/min

[vapid gorge]

which recipes is the bolted loop? cast screw bolted plate bolted frame?

[median heath]

Aye.

All fits in a 4x4

[vapid gorge]

yeah was thinking that but steel coated reduces the resource for the plates soooo much

[median heath]

True.
And pairs with Adhered nicely

Use Coke Steel for a purely Iron + Oil system.

[vapid gorge]

yeah it further reduces the resources with adhered, but the bolted just crams it in really compact

depends where you decide what a unit is for it though. My idea has steel ingots, beams and plastic made elsewhere and brought in for sushi

Maybe I can play around with adhered

[median heath]

Even without Adhered.
Make Coke Steel to keep it to 2 primary resources.

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah - well this is me tooling around with the idea of making a very large 1500 hmf pm factory xD I'd be using multiple steel recipes

depending on how resource numbers break down I might try to section off Steel Types to certain sections of hte factory

[vapid gorge]

so here's maybe a dumb question because I've never been in a situation for it - when you have a sushi line and a splitter splitting things evenly:

does it split evenly by item type or just item passing though? I assume just by number of item passing through

[median heath]

?

[vapid gorge]

well splitters would go left right left right left right if splitting in 2 right?

[median heath]

Picture would help.

[vapid gorge]

it doesn't care about item type correct?

[median heath]

Are you using normal splitters for sushi?

[vapid gorge]

so lik3 30 ingots and 50 beams it wouldn't get 1/2 of each

[vapid gorge]

no I was just thinking about a situation where I might have to have multiple sushi lines coming along but not having all the resource for it coming on at the same time

So maybe I have a sushi with 2 item types, but then I need to split it in 2 ways to add a 3rd item type

[median heath]

Sounds like something I would never build.

[vapid gorge]

depend on size, volume and layout.

But mostly i figure if I have a belt of 40ppm of item A and 60ppm of item B : a regular spliter won't get half of each right?

maybe on average over time but that would wreck production

[median heath]

Again, you're describing a system I would never build.
So idk.

[vapid gorge]

Hmm ok, I'll work under teh assumption regular splitters alternate spitting out items regardless of type. Safer bet. I'm almost sure that's how it works but I don't like making assumptions like that

[median heath]

Well yes, they do.

That's why all sushi I make is pretty much exclusively smart-splitter-only.

[vapid gorge]

yeah thought so, this is a fairly distant future project so I'll have to do a lot of laying out of where incoming resources will be and how they'll be processed

[frosty owl]

Good assumptions.
You're looking for programmable splitters, they're to sushi and load balancing quite literally what normal splitters are to single-item belts and load balancing

https://youtu.be/EiQuFIx9Rlg?si=iasicmuvZSaK6vqx

Note: a mixed belt can be split evenly by a normal splitter only in some very specific scenarios like having 2 items alternating and splitting that 3 ways

[vapid gorge]

Really? How would it be different to using a smart splitter to make individual belts of the sushi with recombining them after with the new material?

[frosty owl]

The programmable splitter can differentiate the items by item kind and split them accordingly.
Example: belt carries Iron Coal and PlastIc (for easy lettering), 3 items each, in this order: I C P, I C P, I C P....
A normal splitter sending 3 ways will make 3 single-item belts as it outputs I, C, P, I, C, P.... Resulting in I-I-I, C-C-C, P-P-P on each output
A programmable one will output: I C P on each output

... Why am I writing what I recorded in a video already though?

[frosty owl]

So, yeah, the difference is wether you need to filter the items on separate belts before balancing (with normal splitters) or not

[vapid gorge]

but woudn't a smart splitter still send I C P out?

[oblique hollow]

What if you offset the rules in the programmable splitter then

Where output one is rules ICP, output 2 is CPI and output 3 is PIC

[frosty owl]

No difference, seems like it just "round-Robin"s between all outputs an item is listed on, regardless of the order of the lists. I also tried adding the same rule multiple times on the same output, hoping it may change the ratio of splitting (it doesn't).

[frosty owl]

I don't understand what you're asking exactly...
Smart splitters can't emulate this "Sushi balancing" behavior programmable ones have though, without first filtering the items in single-item belts

In other words: a smart set on "any undefined" on 3 outputs acts exactly like a normal splitter

[vapid gorge]

oh wait do you mean like if I had two items on a sushi belt I could have both left and right outputs have items A and B and they would alternate an even amount of each item on both belts?

there we go that was the missing bit of info! ta 😄

[frosty owl]

I think the video's first couple minutes are pretty clear in this regard 😅 (would appreciate confirmation)

[vapid gorge]

I haven't actually had a chance to look at it, been taking care of all the animals this afternoon and only glancing at discord 😄

[vapid gorge]

ok fairly clear - what if the input belt is mk5? you can't have a higher output belt

[frosty owl]

One can still do sushi-balancing, but it gets much more cumbersome...
Eg: split in 2 MK4s (in any way), load balance each simmetrically, THEN merge following simmetry...

[vapid gorge]

sounds like at that point it would be easier to use a smart splitter to divide item types and recombine as needed

[frosty owl]

Likely. I can't think of a situation where one would choose this over the other unless one is trying to balance a LOT of items, as each item means one individual lane if filtered

[vapid gorge]

I was making up hypotheticals on a 1500 hmf pm factory

[frosty owl]

... Tbh, at that point it might actually make more sense to just filter the items on 2 separate sushi belts and load balance AND handle each of those individually...

[vapid gorge]

and I was toying around with the idea of using steel coated plates, bolted plates, bolted frames and make units of machiens to make the MFs by sending Steel Beams, ingots and a bit of plastic down it

and while thinking about it it occured to me I'd probalby want the plastic to come on at a different point? maybe?

[frosty owl]

Yeah, I read some about it. It seems like a good usecase for this.
So long as the belts don't back up, the items are split evenly. One can add overflow management further down the line too

[vapid gorge]

yeah jsut throwing around ideas and look at ratios I'd want to use to avoid repeating decimals

found a good ratio though!

929.25 iron ore and 305.1125 oil pm for 218.4 mfs

in a fairly compact space

I think I could tweak it smaller tbh

[static zenith]

the math is perfect but this will not stablilize .. its annoying af

[wind spade]

what is the problem? water? fuel? coal?

[frosty owl]

Yes?

[static zenith]

one of the oil extractors slows down cause the line is full of crude.
the rifiners slow down cause they have a lack of crude.
the gens are receiving lack of fuel due to this slow down.

its perfect in theory but not working in practicew

[wind spade]

did you loop the pipe?

[frosty owl]

Sounds like there's an issue with the transport of oil from Extractor to Refinery(s)

[wind spade]

also screenshots of the setup could help

[static zenith]

so my crude pipe dead ends at 4 points coming from a central feed

looping may help ?
cause feed end is full and its not getting to the refiner side fast enough.
the pipe on refiner side is lacking crude

[wind spade]

looping almost always helps and pretty much never hurts

[frosty owl]

First off: what's the throughput involved and from how many Extractors to how many machines/machine groups?
That helps giving an idea of the overall pipework...
Elevation changes should be mentioned too, or at least their frequency

[static zenith]

im using mods and balancing stuff lol

a screenshot on here is going to cause all sorts of un helpful discussion xD

[wind spade]

well mods are very often source of issues, but go ahead

[frosty owl]

We're requesting for you to send a screenshot in order to have more helpful convo ^^

(That's a totally different thing from people jumping in to share screenshots of modded stuff)

[vapid gorge]

it's nearly impossible to trouble shoot pipes w/o images

[static zenith]

i think looping my crude feed may help like youve said

[vapid gorge]

yeah you haven't looped the feed pipes to the refineries

[static zenith]

thanks i know this

[vapid gorge]

often not needed but if you're using mods to do weird things might be causing issues

[static zenith]

the pipe holds 150

the refiners want 120.

im extracting exactly 120.

its just that my feed end near the extractyors is full.

while the take end near the refiners is not enough.

yes ive filled all pipes before turning on. but it messed itself up lol

also no pumps in this whole thing. pure gravity

[vapid gorge]

are the refineries stuttering? if so why? are they full of fuel or are they lacking oil?

[static zenith]

lack of oil

[vapid gorge]

either a math error or flow issue. Generally you don't need to loop the oil input but maybe you do cause you're doing weird stuff

[static zenith]

first ima try a pump here

and its not that weird lol

[wind spade]

just to be sure - no valves or buffers anywhere?

[primal flicker]

Screenshot refinery interface when it's starving?