math-and-meta

[boreal otter]

ah

[median heath]

Game doesn't have pressure in the traditional sense. It just has "headlift".

[oblique hollow]

its an all or nothing mechanic. Are you within the limit? all good.
Exceeding the limit? No more flow

[vapid gorge]

flow compensator?

[oblique hollow]

the compensator doesnt help at max

it only makes stuff "look nice"

the manual states that

[vapid gorge]

Yeah like gal said it’s pretty pointless . Flood the system and loop the manifold

[wild sequoia]

That's the idea.

Push all the oil to the top of the tower and let it gravity feed the machines.

Pump the Oil from the pure node to the water/Oil tower on the top left and left it gravity feed the 20 Refinery's.

Out of the Extractor, through the flow compensator and up to the bottom of the belt floor.

The pipe then goes up the tower with a MK 2 pump.

Valve just before the buffer at the top to prevent backflow.

Out of the buffer/tank and the flow splits into two pipes.

A valve for each pipe (300m3) as per page 10 of the manual.

Back down to the machine floor.

300m3 into a simple manifold.

5 more refinery's to turn the resulting HOR into fuel for the 10 Fuel Gens and packaged fuel.

[vapid gorge]

Sure but you’re over complicating things and with pipes you’ll run into issues.

Unless you’re moving stuff on a fluid train never use buffers and mixing connections with a water tower is a big no no as you don’t want to merge multiple systems

Doesn’t look like you’re looping the manifolds either :/

[wild sequoia]

I'm still building it.

[wild sequoia]

If the water tower doesn't work I can simply bring the pipe straight up from it's lower one and join it up to the pipes on the machine floor.

At least I'm not trying to troubleshoot these pipes.

[oblique hollow]

good lord

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/avril-lavigne-gif-9619884

[true chasm]

So I just got the Diluted fuel and my power plant is on the western coast by the 4 nodes, if my math is right using diluted fuel you can run 400 fuel generators?

Also i'm not sure if I should bother with turbo fuel

[median heath]

You shouldn't.

[true chasm]

It feels like a lot of work for if my math is right about 15-20% more power

[median heath]

1800 Oil * 40 / 30 = 2400 HOR
2400 HOR * 2 = 4800 Fuel (Diluted)
4800 / 12 = 400

[median heath]

Extra resources, extra complexity, for almost no reason.
Diluted is far, far more than enough to get you to nuclear.

Turbo's uses lie in making bullets and jetpack fuel.

[median heath]

Personally I would use Shards to cut this from 400 gens to 160 @ 2.5
Much easier build.

@true chasm ^

[true chasm]

Last time I played turbo didn't work for teh jet pack, I guess they changed that in the update

[median heath]

Yes, that is new to U8.

[true chasm]

do power slugs respawn?

I have like 200 or so power shards but this would need almost 500

[median heath]

They aren't supposed to.
Some of them are bugged.
They do respawn across the entire map every major update.
And lizards can bring them to you, so they are an infinite resource.

U8 added a bunch more slugs up in the Spire Coast, so if you need more Shards you can farm them up there.

[true chasm]

well either way I have a lot of work to do

[median heath]

Given they are infinite, can also just use the save editor to spawn yourself a crate of them 😉

Technically not a "cheat", just "speeding time up"

[true chasm]

save editor?

never used or heard of it

[median heath]

You've never seen anyone mention SCIM?

[true chasm]

not really

[median heath]

Interesting.

Alternatively you can just turn on AGS in-game and spawn yourself some shards that way.

[true chasm]

I guess at that point the game is just free build mode which feels cheap, then again once you hit a certain point you have everything you need anyway

[median heath]

No?
This is specifically for Shards. Nothing else.

[true chasm]

ah

[median heath]

Which, when building at larger item amounts, you need to reduce building counts to save FPS and/or stop the game from crashing. Which is what shards are for - reducing building counts.

[quick vigil]

So I have:

• 2 pipes producing 375.5 turbo fuel
• 2 pipes producing 349.998 turbo fuel
  (for a total of 1333.334 turbo fuel)

Would it be possible to somehow combine those into 3 pipes that produce roughly 444.445 each?

First large fluid system so no idea if it's even possible

[median heath]

The fact you're making turbo aside...

You can't think about pipes in terms of belts.

[quick vigil]

Is there something wrong with turbo fuel?

[median heath]

Just no reason to.
As we just discussed above.
Diluted is far, far more than enough to get you to nuclear.
Turbo's uses lie in making bullets and jetpack fuel.

[deft lichen]

pipes aren't belts, fluids can flow both back and forth, so you can't balance them

[median heath]

inb4 that one guy comes back...

[deft lichen]

there are multiple guys who balance pipes, lol

lost track of them already

[spice egret]

scary

[median heath]

Just the most recent one who spent 2 days railing against reality...

[spice egret]

Is that the one that was actually trolling 🤔

[median heath]

No, he held his convictions because he made something that allowed him to self-confirm, so therefore everyone else was wrong.

[spice egret]

Missed that one

[quick vigil]

"Just no reason to" - If people didn't like building factories for no reason they'd be playing the FOTM online shooter and not here 😐

[median heath]

Sure 👍

[wind spade]

why tho? just use what you have in each pipe

[quick vigil]

It's all being made in one place and I want to send it to 3 different platforms. No logical reason other than aesthetics, tbh

Something like that

[wind spade]

I'd personally merge the pipes in the way I need for next step

instead of doing different amounts and then rebalancing them

[next pewter]

i used to have a good schematic for an nonblocking alu setup with each of the 3 combinations of alts (no alts, both or one), but seem to have misplaced it digitally. Does anyone here have that or a similar document?

[wind spade]

wdym by nonblocking?

[next pewter]

w/o mixing or rerouting of the water.

keeping it separate, by adding an extra refinery

[wind spade]

that's just routing the excess water to something else, not related to aluminum

[next pewter]

but that part i can do myself if needed.

just the % full load refs for 480 or 720 input w/o alts would be usefull

or later, with one or two alts.

[wind spade]

otherwise tools in #welcome (or in pins here) can make diagrams for you

[next pewter]

true, can make a diagram myself, for example w satisfactorycalculator

like: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=URKiYEuL8jN8xLhlcPe1
But having just the ratios is what i need.

no, still needs a bit of thought.

[wind spade]

I thought you meant the calculator, not Tools

[next pewter]

hence my question 🙂

Ah, tools, yes, sorry
But since it will be a common question, and i did see such a resource already, though this might be the place to find it (again)

[wind spade]

Tools show everything needed 🤔

[next pewter]

true. but that is something manual. => i bet the summary exists, just for reference.

(if not, i can manage, just asking)

[wind spade]

what manual? it's all calculated there 🤔

I'm not sure I understand

[next pewter]

it seems not, no. the division of the machines, from full load equivalents to amount in function of seperate cycles (for example to split the water).
But never mind, i'm just lazy :p
Will look for my resource, then you'll understand.

[wind spade]

eh, you don't need to do that

just build those 5 alumina solution refineries and use VIP junction to prioritise the water from scrap

[next pewter]

True, that works too, on flat areas. but if like me, you put refineries all at different heights, does it still work?

[wind spade]

you can make it flat by building foundations

but as long as the feed pipe is above or at level of highest refinery, it's completely fine

[next pewter]

yes, thats possible. but i like a mix of architecture and efficiency 🙂

[wind spade]

(don't forget to loop the pipe manifold)

[next pewter]

ah, that makes sense.

[true chasm]

how do you spawn power shards when using AGS?

[median heath]

Same way you spawn every other item using AGS?

[true chasm]

Lets act like I don't know how to do that

I kinda don't

[median heath]

I believe in your ability to read and deduce the on-screen information in the game's menus.

[vapid gorge]

then make 3 different sets of machines that make the volumes directly - mixing a bunch of pipe systems together is possible but a massive pain in the ass

[grave grove]

1 machine can't put out fast enough even though my belts are correct but when I change 2 belts to a faster belt it works??

[median heath]

Huh?

[grave grove]

sec

[grave grove]

#screenshots message

[median heath]

That doesn't bring my any clarity.

[grave grove]

hmmmm

[vapid gorge]

just use the fastest belts you have - there's sometimes issues with mixing speeds of belts

[median heath]

My only guess at this juncture is you built a system predicated on thinking the game works in items/min.
It does not. Nor does it care about per minute in nearly any respect.

[grave grove]

I get that the mergers have like an inventroy

[median heath]

Not at all what I meant.

[grave grove]

Well there's always some truth to it!

[thorn trail]

Is there an issue with say Mk1 belt output from a machine merging into a Mk4 belt manifold?

[grave grove]

originally I recalled the mk5 belts being bugged but I guess this was fixed.

[vapid gorge]

I can't recall the details precisely but I've seen people talk about some hiccups merging belts onto a manifold

Do you remember @median heath ?

[grave grove]

I'm confused because my whole factory I set up exactly like this and this is the first time I've come across this issue

[median heath]

You seem to be the one people are asking 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Just asking if you remembered what the issue was with merging different belt speeds

[grave grove]

I must be pulling your leg then

[median heath]

Depends on output belt.

[thorn trail]

I’m curious because I did notice my first couple of machines in the manifold line are backing up a bit when they shouldn’t.

[median heath]

If the output belt is greater than the total sum of the input belts you will have no issues, provided their is somewhere for the output to actually go.

[vapid gorge]

The issue is that I don't think we understand what you're trying to say

[vapid gorge]

I thought there was a thing where even if you had enough total throughput a slower incoming belt could hiccup?

[median heath]

No.
At least not on the single player, non-modded environment.

[grave grove]

which part did I lack on?

[vapid gorge]

do you have an image that can show the belts running under with the connections? teh screen shot wasn't really helpful

[grave grove]

connections as in the buildings to where they are coming from or going to?

[vapid gorge]

both - which machine is backign up? are the machines using the parts starving?

[median heath]

Verbiage.
I still don't understand what you're trying to accomplish.

When I read it, it amounts to "belts not work. Here's a bunch of numbers."

[grave grove]

When I made that screen shot yes it shows numbers showing the amount coming out of the machine and which belts I'm using for clarity. Those are iron ingots being made into steel ingots. for some reason one building, the one with the big red arrow is backing up, I watching it in real time struggling to get past the merger.

The foundries on the other side are fine but one building. That being starved of Iron ingots, from the foundry I mentioned above.

To get away from Verbiage, I'm trying to figure out why my steel Pipes/Beam are not getting enough ingredients.

[potent pumice]

Long manifolds can take a while to saturate

[grave grove]

I let it run for over 24 hours, not sure exactly how long is long enough.

[vapid gorge]

well it sounds like either there's an error in your math or the belt layout

just make everything mk5 and see if that fixes it

[median heath]

Did you at any point build a splitter or merger on top of an existing belt?

[potent pumice]

24 hours should be more than enough. Try replacing the splitter and merger. You may have a slower belt inside. Also check the lifts on top and bottom of the floor holes. One may be a different mk. lvl

[grave grove]

I did not, I even tried dismantling all belts mergers etc. and re-did everything.

[vapid gorge]

then you have a math error

[grave grove]

I agree, I do have to say after checking and rechecking countless times, I keep getting the same results, in the end I changed a few more belts to mk5's

and it works but I don't understand why

so that goes back to what Sevrahn said about game does not care about items per min?

[vapid gorge]

I think he was just commenting on how that's not how you have to look at things, though it is useful to manage stuff

[grave grove]

gotcha

ty for all the insight

[median heath]

Things work in cycles.
If a belt is flushed during a cycle it can cause a backup.
Sometimes this can be as simple as a single item not getting through.
Over time that compounds.

Personally, output belts should be the lowest possible, with the main merge line being a mk5.

[mighty shell]

hey yall starting off on drones today.... whats their max ppm?

[primal flicker]

IDK but efficiency increases with distance because of long docking animation time.

[mighty shell]

increases?

[barren hill]

Do awesome sinks cause like a wavy line in ur power like do they only turn on when they r sinking things or should it be a constant flat line?

[mighty shell]

yea they only draw when sinking

use batteries to flaten the line ... i think... unconfirmed

[barren hill]

Like the power storage thingies or batteries?

[wind spade]

*power storages

also flat line is pointless to aim for

[mighty shell]

power storagies

[mystic moon]

They still won't flatten the line, they just keep your network from crashing if you go over production

[barren hill]

But funny

[mighty shell]

really? but if power supply is constant and the machines only draw from the storage

hmm yea then the line moves only on recharge so also not flat

makes sense

[barren hill]

How on earth do people get flat lines tho

[mighty shell]

effeciencyy

[wind spade]

have variable things on separate network

[mighty shell]

so perfect out put tied to perfect consumption

its all down to ppm

[wind spade]

doesn't help with sink

[barren hill]

Lmao have the perfect amount of sinks

[mighty shell]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=satisfactory+how+to+get+a+flat+powerline

[mighty shell]

yup

the easy mode is having sinks on their own grid

[barren hill]

Trueee

[wind spade]

which means only sinking items in batches of 780/min

[primal flicker]

Sink the perfect amount of items to keep the sinks running at 100% efficiency without backing up machines

[wind spade]

that's just pointless to do

[barren hill]

I started a new world and its annoying because i made my coal farm but i was limited to module 2 belts and like each upgrade i have to re-expand it and it gets ugly for each factory

[barren hill]

Depends on the belt you use

[primal flicker]

Most silly things are.

[barren hill]

Like who needs to keep their belts striaght? Why not spaghetti

[mighty shell]

the whole game is poointless sooo what you mean

the point is fun

[primal flicker]

This is why I build double when I build coal. When I'm on Mk1 miner/Mk2 belt, I build for Mk2/Mk3

Then I just have to upgrade the miner and the output belt.

[wind spade]

that's not what I mean

having flat line gives no real advantage over not having flat line

[barren hill]

I should have done that bc i just unlocked those and i planned ahead for my steal factory but not my coal one…

2 pure iron and 3 normal coal gets you exactly 40 beams and 80 pipes / min with using MK1 miner and MK2 belt

Luckily we upscale

[primal flicker]

I bet you'll need more beams and fewer pipes.
Are you also producing EIBs?

[barren hill]

Not yet and yeah I need more beams which I can do

[spice egret]

Except a good brain scratch when you look at the power graph

[primal flicker]

Non-flat power production lines give me stress (outside of geo) so there is a comparative (and subjective) benefit for flat ones.

[wind spade]

not production, consumption

[primal flicker]

Yeah that's not realistic. Kind of like how sinking low-tier overflow is relatively pointless, if it adds up to <10-20% of all your sink points.

[wind spade]

it's "pointless", but the factories produce anyway, so why not sink overflow

[primal flicker]

IF someone chooses to play with narrower margins of power production, for example...

[median heath]

Or, you build a 3:8 using mk2 belts.
Then you don't touch it again until you have both mk2 miners AND mk3 belts, at which point you do your one and only retrofit/expansion build.
Once. The one time.

[primal flicker]

In my case, I'll retrofit once from Mk2 to Mk3 miners, and once from Mk4 to Mk5 belts. 300-480-600 ppm coal per miner. But I planned it that way.

[median heath]

Meh. At that point I'm rolling Diluted Fuel. So the coal plant is just "to be deleted when I have need of this coal in another project"

[primal flicker]

Except I'm also intentionally trying to leapfrog from coal straight to ☢️⚡

[median heath]

Lightweight.

BiomassTilNuclear or don't even try.

[primal flicker]

Show me proof that you've done that.

I'll wait.

[median heath]

Keep waiting 🙃

[primal flicker]

LOL

[prime basalt]

maff

[median heath]

Only challenge run I have felt like doing is Primal Pioneer.
Where you have to hunt your way through progression as you're not allowed to mine anything.

[primal flicker]

And metha

[primal flicker]

Can you build a miner from crash parts?

[median heath]

No.

The entire point of the run is no mining.

[primal flicker]

I thought you meant no hand mining

How far can one even get?

[median heath]

Every item you have is either from crash sites or you have to BUY it (or the components) from the Shop.

You can complete everything.

[primal flicker]

1000 nuclear pasta how?

[median heath]

Just takes a lot of killing.
Because your only source of allowed tickets is Alien DNA.

[primal flicker]

🙁

That does not sound fun to me.
Knock yourself out, tho. I hope you enjoyed it.

[median heath]

Buying Packaged Water is so much fun though

[viral ravine]

I was looking at 5x5 challenge or a variance of that

[median heath]

Cakewalk now given BPs.

[viral ravine]

I dont incorporate BPs in regular gameplay so i dont think i would in here too

Just dont have a habit of thinking in BP terms

[median heath]

BPs are good during the progression phase of the game.

[viral ravine]

the tutorial?

[median heath]

And the prologue.

Not a available during Onboarding.

[barren hill]

I just unlocked MK2 miner and MK3 belts so we r gonna be able to get loads done within steel production (and maybe making more than 2 rotors per minute)

[wind spade]

you can just put a splitter after miner, don't need to rebuild/upgrade whole power plant

[inner sand]

My first gigawatt

[barren hill]

Nice

[primal flicker]

Except that I prebuilt all 160 generators

[wind spade]

eh, prebuilding 🤢

[primal flicker]

Let people enjoy things the way they want to 😂

[hearty acorn]

I just started a new world entirely dedicated for my concrete addiction

did the math and all

at least some of it

all limestone nodes in the game deliver a maximum of 52860 limestone/min. That takes into consideration that pure nodes deliver more than the belts can handle

I use the wet concrete alt recipe in a refinery for maximum output. Each refinery takes 240 limestone and 200 m³ water/min. I calibrated the overclock to the water pipes volume of 600m³ water for 3 refineries

that's two water extractors fully overclocked for 3 refineries and I need 44000m³ water per minute for 220 refineries

about 146 water extractors

the belts can handle 780/min and 3 refineries take 240*3=720/min so either I load balance everything before I distribute to the refineries or build and overflow system

you might have noticed that the math doesn't add up at some places

that's because the last refinery has to be underclocked for maximum load balance efficiency

the last refinery would run at 50% to use the last 60/min limestone as 220 refineries at my calibration use up 52800 limestone/min

it would also take (I think) 5m³ water/min

haven't thought about that yet

and the total power consumption for all the drills is 7480.3 MW/min

the refineries (excluding the undeclocked) take 16500MW/min

[proven stump]

what uh

what are you doing with all that concrete

[hearty acorn]

CONSUME

build a monument to the superior american car industry

[proven stump]

dudes rock

[hearty acorn]

I don't think it's the most power efficient factory but a little pollution never hurt anybody

gonna build a big powerplant with my other great american ambition: oil

[hearty acorn]

alright, I think I have the math for the production right

pure 1539MW 21060 limestone/min
normal 4732.9MW 28200 limestone/min
impure 1208.4MW 3600 limestone/min
total for miners 7480.3 MW 52860 limestone/min

refineries 220 take 240 limestone
produce 160 concrete /min plus 40/min
total production 35240 concrete/min
consume 16500 MW power
need 200 m³ water each total 44000m³ water/min

water extractor 300m³ water, need 146 plus 1 at 50% total
take 75MW each plus 15MW total 16515MW

now to calculate the power production

[vapid gorge]

Hey @wind spade , this isn’t the first time I’ve run into someone getting upset over the ‘shortest route’ thing - maybe ‘default path’ might be clearer?

[wind spade]

uh?

[vapid gorge]

‘A train will never change from its default path’

Less room for the issue to crop up

[wind spade]

this is the first time I've seen someone complain about "shortest", even though the word is pretty clearly defined

[vapid gorge]

I’ve seen it before - and as seen people have thought a lot that a blockage just changes what shortest means

[wind spade]

idk which logic changes "shortest" as a distance

[vapid gorge]

if something is blocked a 'new' shortest can happen. Honestly I'm not even sure if you set a time table, then make a link that creates a new shortest path if it'll take it. Does the path get set and locked the moment you make it? if you make a link that creates a new shortest and it changes path then there is some dynamic pathing right?

[safe surge]

pipes are more laggy than belts right?

If I have to run world spanning infastructure, belts would probably be better than a pipe, right?

[viral ravine]

Not really no, besides in that case run a train

[safe surge]

I-i don't have trains...

[vapid gorge]

It probably won’t make any difference

[frosty owl]

I'm pretty sure pipes require less performance. No items rendering on them, possibly simpler calculations for item flow too...

[sacred anvil]

i have a total of 10 conveyor belts bringing in 5460 ore per minute. 9 of those belts are mk 5 belts. Each of those 9 belts are carrying 600 ore per minute. the last belt is a mk 1 belt carrying 60 ore per minute. Lastly i have 7 mk 5 belts waiting to connect to the 10 incoming belts. Those 7 mk 5 belts each can carry 780 ore per minute and they are going to refineries. How would I get those 10 belts to connect with the 7. If anyone could dm with a diagram or explanation would be greatly appreciated. Ty

[wind spade]

"best" and easiest solution is to just use what you have on each belt

so if you have belt with 600, connect it to machines that eat 600

[sacred anvil]

idk if that is possible, being that i have 364 refineries with each taking in 15 ore/min with a combined consumption of 5460/min

[wind spade]

it's possible, you have clock speed that you can adjust

[vapid gorge]

yeah just clock the machines to what a belt uses instead of doing a giant mess of merging and splitting

[frosty owl]

Given the machines take 15/min each and they are (I'm assuming) on 7 rows of 52 machines each, I would approach this by feeding a 600/min belt to each of the rows (first 40 machines) and then distribute the remaining belts to the remaining machines. At that point I'd kind of reiterate what I did earlier, but it'd be easier as there'd be lower numbers involved

[wind spade]

That looks like it will make some belts stuck

[primal flicker]

Would all-drones or all-trains logistics use more CPU resources?

[median heath]

How much is being moved?

[primal flicker]

Theoretical endgame world. Your own, for instance.

[median heath]

Drones would take more as their limit is 780. So you inherently have about twice as many running at a minimum.

[primal flicker]

Has anyone done this? Either replace all drones with trains, or vice versa?

I'm tempted to go all-drone...

Largely because I hate building roads/rails.

[median heath]

I know multiple people who are 100% Drone people.

[sharp lion]

I never used drones, trains all the way

[median heath]

Many people choose the sub-optimal logistics path. Nothing wrong with it. Do what you enjoy.

[primal flicker]

How many drones would it take to replace all your trains?

[median heath]

I would never.

But I do have more drones than I do trains.
And I have more trucks than I do trains.

[primal flicker]

What's your truck fuel of choice?

[median heath]

Depends on stage of the game.

Coal > Fuel > Batteries.

[frosty owl]

If CPU for 2 drones < CPU for 1 train, then we could say drones are more CPU-efficient (the extra belting needed should be accounted too)

[median heath]

2 Drones is slightly more than 1 train car though.
And if you're talking about mass-production, high-end logistics (which was my understanding of the context), then you're getting into like 9 Drones vs. 1 train (or more)

[smoky scaffold]

Hi new to the game. Is it more efficient to use trucks/trains over belts? Both in long distance and short distances

because truck seem to be a big hassle with not much benefits? Im talking about the refueling part. For reference i just entered phase 3

[primal flicker]

Nothing actually beats belts for throughput/cost because everything else has an ongoing requirement. However, belts everywhere, for everything, is the most taxing solution for your computer to simulate. Most people use a mix, situationally, based on distance, terrain, throughput, and other factors.

[smoky scaffold]

Ahh wow. Never really thought about the CPU/GPU usage for belts. Alright thanks.

[rough furnace]

What's the math behind overclocking miners to fuel coal generators? Specifically.. is there a point where it becomes not worth it in regards to power usage and consumption?

[median heath]

Power should never be a factor in your decision-making.

[median heath]

Trucks vs. Trains is a very long debate...
The reality is they are different. Neither is overall better than the other.

If you just prefer trains (like many do), there is nothing wrong with making the choice to just use trains.

[sharp lion]

Overclocking a coal miner to its max capability for coal gens is always worth it

[wind spade]

compared to what? finding another node?

[sharp lion]

U never use more power on the miner than u get from the coal gens u can fuel with it.

But also compared to finding another node in my opinion 😉

[wind spade]

two nodes vs one overclocked to 200% - more nodes always better (power-wise)

[true junco]

Overclock everything always. Because CPU/GPU/RAM is the ultimate limiting factor. Lmfao

[spice egret]

You don’t lose more power than you make, but you do lose net power to your grid when you overclock machines instead of using more machines

[true junco]

Also because Uobject limit.

[primal flicker]

Slugs tho.
Not everyone wants to have a doggo farm or SCIM shards.

[surreal rain]

Or ya know, spawn a storage crate full of them

[versed violet]

Does overclock still use more power than linear increase? wasnt that supposed to go?

[spice egret]

Overclocking is not linear on most machines, so 2 machines at 100% consume less power than 1 machine at 200%. Generators (at least coal and fuel?) are linear with respect to required inputs

[versed violet]

I remember jace/snut/mark talking about possible removing the power penalty on machines overclock, but dont know ehere it ended at.

[median heath]

It ended at what we got in U8.

Penalty in place, just slightly less of a penalty.

[viral ravine]

belts everywhere is arguably less fun as well

automating trucks and trains is just so fun

[versed violet]

Oh, so it was changed? Do you have the numbers of before-after?

[median heath]

U7, not U8. My bad.

Patch note: Reduced the energy cost of Overclocking production buildings (including Extractors) to a lower exponent
Changed production building and extractor exponent from 1.6 to 1.321928

[summer flare]

Here's one way. It's load distributed so will only work with the rates and numbers of belts you have. Essentially there's two combos that take a single input of 10 and split to 3-3-3-1, which means 600 will give 180-180-180-60 outputs. Each side has the 3 x180 merged with another 600 to give 780. The middle has a 600 merged with the 60 then merged with the 60 from each side to give the seventh 780.

[versed violet]

TY, havent played so long I forgot that.

Does hard drive speed affect satisfactory in visible way? Just tried loading my save on regular mid-tier ssd instead of nvme I used before, and did not notice any perceptible increase in load time.

[oblique hollow]

yes, HDD loading new map regions are much slower than SSD

[versed violet]

does anyone still use hdd for game drive nowadays? Even my father upgraded to ssd for os

[best upgrade ever]

[oblique hollow]

Me

[versed violet]

why?

[oblique hollow]

reasons

nothing else ever causes issues to me that way usually

and im not gonna make exceptions for satis

i stick with the lag

[versed violet]

you got issues with ssd?

[spice egret]

I still have a HDD for games. Only use SSD for OS

But I built my PC like 7 years ago and just haven’t needed to upgrade anything

[vapid gorge]

I have a bunch of either older or indie games that don’t super benefit from loading speed so I still have a 3T hdd with a few hundred games installed

I’ve got a 1t ssd for other games and another 1t nv2 for ones I really care about

[crimson gulch]

Mid game crisis appears. Help.
I built my factories neatly, managing inputs and outputs. Spent hours in blueprint, hours in calculating how many assemblers and constructors etc i need.

BUT, now that i see there are mk3 miners as well (am still on mk1 for most), do i redo each of my factory now for higher production?

[median heath]

This is why you don't build anything permanent until you hit T7-8.

[spice egret]

Only if you want and need to. Most people would recommend you just build new factories somewhere else, as it’s less time consuming and you have a large map to work with.

[crimson gulch]

What do you do? I think i see two options

• leave old as it is and when building new make mk3 in calculation
• make overkill numbers of everything, ie 20smelters, 40 constructors, 20 assemblers so that am covered in future as well

[median heath]

I do neither of these.

[crimson gulch]

lol I just completed tier6 couple days ago man. This is when all this struck me….

[crimson gulch]

So how do you cope? What’s the plan like?

[median heath]

Cope? Something in this game is so bad it needs to be coped with?

[wind spade]

third option:

• build what you need at the moment, don't limit yourself to "whole number of belts" or "full nodes" and don't build anything "for future"

[median heath]

Inb4 haters to my explanation/view of the game, but here's how I see things:

T0-2: Onboarding
T3-4: Prologue
T5-6: Tutorial
T7-8: Game Begins

So I am not ever building for permanence during the progression phases of the game.
Once the game starts, then I plan and construct permanent outposts. Because at that point I have access to all buildings, logistics options, and alternate recipes.

I usually begin with a single area that is maybe 10x20. And I just retrofit it every phase to meet the demands of progression.

[safe surge]

While this might be accurate for late game players. I've talked to quite a few people who have just placed all the materials for assembly phase #4 in storage containers and then finished the game. Without automating them. I've also seen plenty of people consider phase #3 the end of the game for now, with phase #4 just being post game, since the difficulty spike is so high. There is quite alot of casual satisfactory players you never hear from.

[median heath]

Imagine ever automating Project Parts...

[safe surge]

You could finish phase 4 in like 5 hours if you just set up outposts and then hand deliver everything between them. (maybe 5 more afk waiting)

The reason they made project parts even... a thing... was because you aren't meant to hand craft them

Casuals did that alot too, back in the day

[median heath]

You can't handcraft them.

But I also don't fully automate them, as there is no point.

[safe surge]

fun

[safe surge]

If you're sticking the parts in a storage container to be sent into a assembler, you might as well be handcrafting them.
What I was getting at is, that at one point you could directly handcraft the project parts. Although back then it was just regular items, like motors, and computers.

[median heath]

Yes, I remember Update 3.

[mystic moon]

The dark ages

[frosty owl]

"There is quite alot of casual satisfactory players..."

Yeah, surprisingly most of them don't even use sushi. Such casualness

[quick vigil]

I just hit T7 (just unlocked aluminium production) and I want to re-do my starter factories because it's a giant mess before I get in too deep

Assuming I can send the excess copper/iron ingots somewhere per train, does the above ratios seem alright to keep access to early game crafting materials?

[viral ravine]

hard to answer how much per minute you need, because it depends on well, how much you need

Some need more, some need less.

[quick vigil]

So the idea here is more or less just to be able to drop by and fill my inventory from storage, not really for any other factories short of the ingots. Like be able to drive here and grab 3-4 stacks of everything for a build elsewhere

[viral ravine]

honestly just build a storage, it will eventually overflow because of the time between you taking stacks

make sure the storage is overflow proof and you are golden

should know how by now

[quick vigil]

No that's exactly what i mean. Everything will go into storage (and excess sinked) minus the ingots that will go per train to proper factories when I need them

[viral ravine]

I personally would advocate for separation of produciton and storage

One chain makes items for storage. If another part needs that item as a component, make it there

so instead of lets say a central steel factory that handles all steel, i make it locally whereever its required

[quick vigil]

that's why I'm sending off the ingots to elsewhere, though?

[viral ravine]

so is it going to stroage or to other chains i dont follow anymore

[quick vigil]

Maybe that makes more sense. Everything at the top is for storage/sink. The bottom is going via train to big factories I'm planning on setting up

The question is more like "am I siphoning off enough for every day crafting needs"

[viral ravine]

this still applies https://discordapp.com/channels/370472939054956546/558721941410807812/1197908681942110261

[wind spade]

make some small amount, if you feel like you're running out, make more later

and don't prebuild, the ingots you make - they are pointless now, and in the future you'll make them anyway in the place where you need them in the amount you need

[past reef]

you can attach boxes on all outputs near a 5 heavy modular frames and 5 motor per min factory, if you turn off sink and let them back up you should be able to get as many as you need for builds

building as much as you need would be more efficient but having random overflow boxes in starter factories wouldn't hurt

[versed violet]

mk3 doubles the extraction rate, so just build a second copy of yor factory and should be fine.

[median heath]

(Am dumb, was thinking belt mk's) lol

[versed violet]

Welll.... if its a maxed mk3 on pure node, then yes, doubling does not work.

[turbid cedar]

You can't even extract faster than it produces

[wind spade]

No reason to touch existing factories, they make what they have to make

[surreal rain]

Unless you need the resources they are using

[fierce ruin]

Im newish to the game, Howdy fellow Ficsit Engineers!
How many of yall have completed the stages then wiped the map to start over? Im just getting close to finished with phase 2 of the space elevator. My factory is chaos.

I have a lot of overflow going into storage and the sink. But I think redoing the layouts will allow for better organization.

I also know Im not running correct speeds for efficient output and electricity use. I appreciate yall here. I have watched and read a lot.

[wind spade]

then you make those resources in the place where you need them

[turbid cedar]

Or make them and send them

[deft lichen]

I have done major rebuilding in my earlier playthroughs, but now I know how to avoid it

[jolly marsh]

When I started (around update 3, pipes were brand new), I was loathe to delete whole factories or production chains. I would just grit my teeth and run another strand of conveyor spaghetti. Eventually I learned to bury all that stuff under elevated platforms... Which was at times difficult because my first factories were essentially ground level lol. As my ridiculous mess grew and grew and I wound my way through a labyrinth of walls, belts, and machines, I came to realize that I had built something that no one else in the world would be able to navigate like I could. I took a perverse sense of pride in my ability to get from point A to point B using a logic that only I understood. Sure, it was inefficient and wildly unbalanced, but it was unique! By the time update 6 or 7 came out, the game was different enough from when I started that it made sense to start a new game entirely. And sure, my giant sky factories are way more logical and efficient, but I still kinda miss that first playthrough....

[wheat marlin]

Just got to phase 8 after not playing the game for many years. This perfectly describes how im feeling, I like the new big super efficient factory im building but the spaghetti mess that got me to this point is gonna be left as a relic for all time xD

[median heath]

There are only 4 phases.

[lusty summit]

when you are trying to utilize 600m^3 of liquid, is there any other improtant tip other than prefilling your machines and looping your manifolds?

[median heath]

Those are the only 2.

[lusty summit]

cool, thanks!

[lusty summit]

okay this is my first attempt to top feed as a design, sorry for the bad paint, anything that i should pay attention to?

it looks quite bizzare

[viral ravine]

Why not just?

Not trying to say your approach is bad, just wondering what makes you go that route

[lusty summit]

loops

[viral ravine]

loopable

[lusty summit]

okay wait, so let's say that you connect the main line to left side and you split it from right side, can you still loop it in similar way with multiple machinery?

never done loop nor top feed before, just to make sure xd

[viral ravine]

Well pipes are bidirectional so

[lusty summit]

what i thought of was that, if my main/split line is higher than feed/loop line, it would totally avoid back backflow

not sure if i'm thinking right this late

[viral ravine]

honestly im not a pipe engineer, i just know the setup i just sent works for me

[lusty summit]

tbh my setup is quite similar, but what it seems the difference is that i did the loop horizontally

and splitted vertically

not im confused lmao

[oblique hollow]

if you wanna be safe just connect the supply pipe to the top pipe

then it all flows downwards

[lusty summit]

with supply do you mean the loop?

[oblique hollow]

supply is "the pipe that brings in the liquid"

[lusty summit]

ah yeah, that is the "main" in my picture

[lusty summit]

i assume you saw this right?

the ss is from his/her setup

this bizzare thing is what i initially attempted as first try

[oblique hollow]

i would never have it keep on going to another loop honestly

just too complex of a network

one loop, one set of machines. If i have another set of machines they get their own main pipe

also keeps the network smaller

[lusty summit]

help me understand this, so what is the exact difference if i split the main line somehwere before or doing that?

since the oil will be still comming from 1 resource splitted maybe somewhere sooner

[oblique hollow]

reduced complexity and dependancy on the part before it

[lusty summit]

does it has to do for the network not being interconnected?

aah i get it

so where would you in practice split in my example?

just after the extractor?

[oblique hollow]

hard to say

you can do right after the extractor if you want

[lusty summit]

well since i need different main lines i dont even need this bizzare split machine

since my line is already higher than the refineries

thanks for the tips!

@oblique hollow i think doing the loop end with junctions like in the photo wouldnt change it's workstyle right?

due to my ocds i don't like floating stuff

[oblique hollow]

what am i supposed to see here

[lusty summit]

instead of directly connecting as in this design, i first connect the pipe to another t junction exactly on top of it, then connect it horizontally

i don't know man, it probably is the same thing but with pipes i'm never sure

[oblique hollow]

probably. only one way to find out: start 'er up

[lusty summit]

yeah, currently building the main pipes, redesigning all my bps for lumen use so my brain is kind of mushy, thanks for bearing with me 😄

[spice egret]

Anybody know what the rough throughput of drones is for about 1.1 KM flight path?

Never used drones before. Trying to figure out the best way to get quartz to my computer factory location

[wind spade]

easiest is to build drone, check throughput in UI and figure out how many drones you need 🙂

[vapid gorge]

Short trip for drones - is the terrain terrible?

[wind spade]

51 seconds is the landing/take off animation
so 102 seconds + average speed which seems to be max 252km/h, which equals to roughly 16 seconds flight (let's assume like 30-40 seconds because of acceleration and decceleration)

total travel time is ~140 seconds, one round trip ~300 seconds (5 minutes)
so 9 stacks/5 minutes, or 1.8 stacks/min (rough estimate)

[spice egret]

Most of it is navigable thick forest but the quartz is on top of like a 100M cliff. Can always build either a belt tower (this is by default) or a spiral road. Just considering all of my options

Don’t have batteries yet, which I’m working on, but was just curious 😂

[viral ravine]

it doesnt really have much of a decceleration, it just zooms it at mach 10 and when it approaches the landing it very quickly slows down

tho takes decades to actually fly down and dock

[vapid gorge]

Fair! Was just curious. Often times I see people spitballing 300+ ppm for one drone and you can easily have 2 going between ports.

Worst case you have to put in more ports which is at least easy to do

[spice egret]

Probably will just end up using trucks then just need to decide if I’m belting over the cliff

[wind spade]

well the docking is the 51 seconds

idk really how it works, I just checked wiki for info and done some low-end math, so the actual throughput is most likely higher

[vapid gorge]

Drones are fun - give it a go 🙂 you can also do a step of pre processing the materials to lower how much you need to move

[viral ravine]

well, drone UI shows you the troughput before completing a cycle so getting your value shouldnt be much of an issue

[true chasm]

I hope this can explain what i'm trying to do. I'm making a factor with 8 wings each will be connect by train north, south, east, west is easy to do in a strait line NW, NE, SW, SE hasn't worked out for me. This is kinda an idea of what I was going for but I also want to be able to make the diagonals strait as well but I can't seem to do so. Can anyone help?

[vapid gorge]

If you hold ctrl and spin the mouse wheel you can put foundations on an angle

If that’s what you were asking about that was the most confusing way to explain it

[true chasm]

I found the answer and like most problems in this game it was solved with painted beam, the problem with the ctrl spin is I wasn't getting an even spacing. But I was able to get it with the beam like in this picture

Painted beam in free form made seems to solve problems

[true chasm]

At least the base is done

[vapid gorge]

not sure what you meant about 'even spacing' you can do that with foundations. But glad you got it working

[vapid gorge]

careful with building large amount of sky factories - it hammers your computer harder with shadow

[true chasm]

Time to turn shadows down

[vapid gorge]

and most lighting settings

[true chasm]

I'm trying to build Midgar

[vapid gorge]

it's honestly not generally a good idea - logistics are a pain in the ass too

[true chasm]

I'm just kinda messing around

I did all the normal stuff

[vapid gorge]

oh do you what you like - just giving you a heads up

[true chasm]

I kinda caused my last map to die to frame rate because I overdid my nuclear refinement factor. The straw that broke my computer's back

[vapid gorge]

older computer?

[true chasm]

Not really, just way too much stuff really close together

[vapid gorge]

... was it just nuclear stuff? cause that shouldn't be too big

unless you had a million signs

[true chasm]

when i'm in the world it's fine, if I get close to my factories things slowed down

mind you my computer isn't really high end

so that's also a part of it

Well time for bed, later

[vapid gorge]

real quick - do you have hierarchacal z occlusion on ?

[true chasm]

I'll check next time I open it

[vapid gorge]

uncheck it if you do - it kills fps near built up zones

[median heath]

Matriarchal Z Occlusion when?

[true junco]

Thats when she unplugs your system and films it for tiktoks. Occludes the entire Z.

[median heath]

Nice.

[vapid gorge]

that would have been patriachal occlusion for that joke 😛

[lusty summit]

it seems with proper setup this is really possible

[woven quiver]

Hi, I'm making a factory and I currently have 36 outlets that I'd like to group into 6 industrial containers. I've been stalling on this for 2 days now.
My outlets look like this (6 aligned) and I was wondering if it was possible to group them to make 2 outlets while staying within the same foundation line.

[vapid gorge]

what?

[sand epoch]

You can merge them down to w/e number you want.. so long as you have the belt speed for it...

[vapid gorge]

You could merge the 3 on each level with a merger and then merge those? Not sure what you're asking

[woven quiver]

yeah, what I said wasn't clear.

If I simply merge the three outputs I can't line up 6 of them without the conveyors bumping into each other.

[deft lichen]

are you constrained vertically as well?

you could simply merge 2 and run the 3rd belt above, then merge it afterwards

it's bigger, but only 1 foundation wide

[sand epoch]

Or use lifts and x-cross

[woven quiver]

I see, I think i'm gonna do this

[deft lichen]

still can only connect 2 lifts to a merger, without clipping

(I thought about that)

you should blueprint this if you're gonna place it a lot

[mortal hare]

How do we get permission to talk in the "Looking-for-group" channel?

[wind spade]

read pins

[mortal hare]

Sorry, I don't know what you mean.

[wind spade]

the 📌 button

[median heath]

Click this button, but not in this channel. Click it over in that channel.

[mortal hare]

Thanks, I'll try that.

[median heath]

Try not.
Do, or do not.
There is no try.

[woven quiver]

Finnaly I do this, thanks for your idea

[vapid gorge]

@paper helm ok so what are you actually trying to build

[sand epoch]

A box filler by the looks of it..

[wind spade]

the big box is indeed almost filled with belts and small boxes

[vapid gorge]

was pinging someone else about their water waste issue 😄

[paper helm]

a production line for batteries

[vapid gorge]

do you have a plan for it? like in tools?

[paper helm]

wdym

[vapid gorge]

how have you planned it out? are you only making batteries?

and which recipes"?

[spice egret]

If you can share your production levels and recipe choices someone can probably help you set up the recycled water the best

[paper helm]

alright i think i solved the problem by throwing them into giant tanks

ill just reguarly flush the system

[spice egret]

It will work, but it’s not automated. It’s not too difficult to have it automated and hands free if you share the details of your build

[vapid gorge]

there's a very simple solution I'd be happy to take you though xD

[paper helm]

well 2 of those combiner thingies

and uhh

everything is overclocked, no alternate recipes

pretty sure the ore is like all normal

[spice egret]

Would probably need specific recipes … you’re trying to make X of Y item using standard recipes

You said batteries so you have 2 manufacturers?

[paper helm]

not manufacturers isnt it the mixer thing

that says it mixes up fluids

and solids

[spice egret]

Blenders

[paper helm]

yes

[spice egret]

How many batteries you making?

[paper helm]

rn?

not sure

[spice egret]

Well what’s the goal

[paper helm]

lemme check it on satisfactory calculator

[spice egret]

That will tell you how much waste water you have to deal with

[paper helm]

anything above like 20 per minute sounds fabulous to me

[spice egret]

Did you build the machines for a specific goal?

[paper helm]

nope

just powering my drones

[spice egret]

Well you’ll need to either choose a production level to know how to recycle, or just set up something like a coal plant or additional production that will just eat whatever water comes to it

[paper helm]

apperantly it says im making 70 batteries a minute and no usage

[paper helm]

basically just use coal plants?

alright ill do that

thank you for your time and sorry for wasting it since i figured i just wasted your time

[spice egret]

You can either recycle it into your production line, but to do that you would need exact quantities or mix fresh water and recycled water which isn’t really recommended

So if you don’t want to figure out exact numbers at 100% efficiency to recycle it into the production, yeah, you’ll just make some secondary production line that uses water. One of the easiest would be to bring in a belt of coal and set up a coal generator

[paper helm]

alright

ill look for some excess coal along the lines

thank you

and sorry for wasting both of your times

[vapid gorge]

do you want to avoid looking for coal? cause recycling it is much easier

up to you
you could also make Wet Concrete with a refinery and sink that if it's closer

[paper helm]

i think i might have some overflowing belts nearby

[vapid gorge]

nw

[paper helm]

like 600-700m away not that bad

[paper helm]

wet concrete?

which uhh research thing unlocks that

[vapid gorge]

alt recipe with hard drive. Just a good way to burn water if you don't want to recycle it with a set up like this

[paper helm]

i see

alright ill try your ideas tmr

thank you two very much and good day/night

[vapid gorge]

yeah if you do try recycling it feel free to ping me

[next pewter]

^thats the image i was trying to find a few weeks back!!

The best SF alumina schematic,ever!

[vapid gorge]

Works for any waste system really

[deft lichen]

not sure if I'm having a brain fart

I want to import batteries and export SE parts using a drone. But afaik, drones wait to unload, and since I have no way to split off the exact amount of batteries, the drone would get stuck trying to unload and never export the SE parts

so the only solution is to have two drone lines?

[vapid gorge]

the batteries are for fuel I take it so aren't constantly being consumed? if so yeah either 2 drones or sink the extra batteries

[deft lichen]

yeah, the setup uses like 10, but the total production is 120 (- drone fuel)

2 drone lines it is, thanks

[wind spade]

@vague ibex you can't load blance pipes, that setup will have issues

[deft lichen]

I thought setups like this work, but aren't "balanced"

[vapid gorge]

honestly it's a mess it's unclear if it's actually set up alright

[wind spade]

the simplest pipe setup, the more chance of it working correctly

it can work, but there's no reason to complicate it

[deft lichen]

it is pointlessly overcomplicated, but not necessarily non-functional

[wind spade]

@woeful garden "the drill" is to not ask questions in #screenshots

and for your "question" - read this #math-and-meta message

[vague ibex]

Ive been using that power plant for 200 hours with zero issues

If you prefill the pipes its fine

[oblique hollow]

tbh the only problem i have with load balacing pipes is that it just wastes so much space and takes forever to fill

[frosty owl]

One can't load balance pipes like this (#screenshots message by @vague ibex ) but if one does like this (#math-and-meta message) though...

[vague ibex]

Yes that can work but the pipes have to be perfectly symmetrical

Also thats the exact method I used when I had split my pipes

Its also worth noting that despite splitting them I was not using direct input but rather injection manifolding

Main reason I aplit them was bc i wanted a lot of pipes to look cool

[frosty owl]

Tbf, you're not far off, you'd just need to have pumps before any elevation change in the segments after the balancers to have a "true" balanced system (though branches of different lengths lead to different timing in fluid reaching the machines, ofc)

[vague ibex]

My pumps were all placed after downwards elevation changes and before upwards ones

Also again I prefilled it so it didnt really matter

[frosty owl]

Having any elevation change already changes the priority between branches of the balancer, "ruining" it

But again, that's just to have a "true" balancer, as far as fluid balancers go... Nitpicks ^^

[viral ravine]

I only have one thing to say about balancing pipes

Why?

smae for load balancing conveyors but that one isnt as spaghetti

[frosty owl]

Personally, I wanted to find out wether it was possible or not.

About belts, there's quite a few reasons, but it all boils down to wanting to direct a specific portion/amount off a belt to another (or many others)

[viral ravine]

No i get the purpose of load balance but to me personally, as long as manifold is doable, it invalidates lb every single time

[frosty owl]

Preferences be preferences, I guess? 🤷‍♂️

[viral ravine]

Yes but i'd love to be convinced that LB is worth it for reasons other than faster to start up by some enthusiast

have yet to be convinced

[frosty owl]

Eh, I'm not all that energetic right now 😅
To me LB systems just look better (belts free-flowing Vs backing up) and react more quickly, which makes all troubleshooting and checking much handier to me. Also sushi

I also enjoy the challenges they pose (how to fit it in X space, how to make it look nicer in this instance, can I pull off some simmetry...), so I guess I don't have much of a hard time building them over manifolds

[grand talon]

i have a weird thing going on, i have 20 sets of 4 blenders making turbofuel for a max output of 450 m/3 but some are produicing 600 and others lower

[median heath]

Turbo Blend is made at 45/min
20 sets of 4 would be 80 Blenders
Which would in turn be 3600 Turbofuel

[grand talon]

i forgot to mention their overclocked to 250%

[median heath]

20 sets of 4 @ 250% would be 9000 Turbofuel

So where is this "Max output of 450" coming from?

Given 450 =/= 9000

[wind spade]

one set

[median heath]

?

[wind spade]

one set (4 clocked blenders) makes 450

[grand talon]

i have the 4 blenders to 1 pipe to make 450 per pipe

[median heath]

"making turbofuel for a max output of 450 [per set]" ?

[wind spade]

"I have 20 sets [...] output of 450" 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

[per set]

Anyways...

[wind spade]

it's kinda implied tbh, but w/e

[vapid gorge]

my only guess from all this is that things aren't merged properly and/or clocked properly.

are each set of for seperated or did you connect them all?

[median heath]

If you're making 450 per set, you're making 450 per set.
Pipe flowrate should only be looked at if you have a problem somewhere in the system.

[grand talon]

4 blenders per 1 pipe theres no other blenders connected per set

[vapid gorge]

how are you reading they are making 600? are they connected to generators already?

[grand talon]

i have the 9000 turbofuel sent across 20 pipes at 450 to feed 40 generators per pipe

[median heath]

Are the generators having issues?

[grand talon]

yes looking into why im not making the correct power

[grand talon]

some are not being fed

[median heath]

Did you let the system fill completely before turning them on?

[wind spade]

did you loop the pipe?

[grand talon]

no

[grand talon]

ive let em fill into modded tanks before i hooked them up should i try loaded vanilla tanks as a buffer then reconnect em?

[median heath]

Oh, modded.
Problem located. 👍

[wind spade]

you should not use buffers

not any buffers

[spice egret]

The only time here you should ever use buffers is if you wanted a backup “tank” so that you could do some work on the production line and fuel could still flow to generators for a while. It’s generally recommended to not put this storage directly in the line, but off to the side so it won’t affect flow.

[median heath]

The only time here you should ever use buffers is

With trains.
That's it.

[spice egret]

Perfectly reasonable to want to have some backup storage though

And there are no downsides if done correctly

[median heath]

Ehhhhhhh... disagree.

Backup is useless if you build properly.

[spice egret]

There’s not anything to disagree with lol. Some people just have that preference

There’s nothing proper or improper about wanting storage

[median heath]

I can disagree with it being perfectly reasonable 😉

[spice egret]

Fair enough. But it’s just a preference or choice, as are most things in this game

[grand talon]

how would i turn off 800 generators at once to prime them?

[vapid gorge]

turn off 1 or 2 in each manifold, it should flood

[spice egret]

As long as you’re producing a surplus, it will flood eventually

[grand talon]

still getting more produced per set than it should on some and others lower

[vapid gorge]

'flow' doesn't equal 'produced'

[vapid gorge]

@paper helm the interactive map

it's a web page

[paper helm]

what

you mean the satisfactory calculator?

[vapid gorge]

yes

do you have that open?

[paper helm]

yes

its not a mod though

[vapid gorge]

do you have your save in it to look at while you're playing?

[paper helm]

last tme i looked at it was maybe 2-3 days ago probably already removed from cace

cache

[vapid gorge]

maybe? who knows. Close the tab anyway, it's a memory hog

in fact close all your tabs

[paper helm]

my browsr is using 1.4 gigs with 300 tabs im pretty sure its fine

[vapid gorge]

Things that could be an issue

1. your operating system was installed years ago and you haven't reformated since
2. you have a bunch of background stuff running from programs you installed and it's bloated

might need to update your graphics card

[paper helm]

ah

[vapid gorge]

or change between DX 11 12 and vulkan

but unless you have a moderately beefy computer I woudln't run SCIM with a loaded save in it.

the base webpage? generally not an issue unless it's an older rig

[paper helm]

does this have to do with my gpu being nvidia

[vapid gorge]

did you install all that 'nvideo geforce' control panel stuff?

[paper helm]

yes

[vapid gorge]

cause that's bloatware. I doubt it's the sole reason

but it's probably part of it

[paper helm]

although i usually inspect task manager once in a while and force quit stuff that takes up ram and stuff

[vapid gorge]

when did you install windows?

[paper helm]

bought the laptop 2023

[vapid gorge]

ah. laptop. how much RAM? what gpu you running?

[paper helm]

16 ddr5 nvidia 3500

pretty decent setup as far as i know

can run most games with pretty smooth frames on high graphics no problem

[vapid gorge]

which 3500 specifically? do you know?

I'm finding something called quadro fx 3500

[paper helm]

i meant 3050 lmao

[vapid gorge]

ah right

[paper helm]

oopsies

[vapid gorge]

ok not as bad as the 3500 but not amazing. Do you know your cpu?

[paper helm]

ryzen 7 6800H

not the best

but good enough to handle most stuffs

[vapid gorge]

did you buy it at a big box shop? or is it like a package from dell or HP?

[paper helm]

uhh

pretty sure its from like a shop that had a computer section in it

[true junco]

So. Has anybody done any comparative analysis of hypertube cannons arranged vertically vs horizontally?

[vapid gorge]

ok so just my best guess from what you've said:

so yeah it'll probably run most things but SF is a massive hog- I upgraded to a 3070 specifically for it. They'll optimise it more I'm sure but it's meant to be pretty.

but mostly - I think there's a lot of garbage running on your laptop. They tend to have a harder time as it is with SF with all the heat

Has SF been running fine until recently?

[paper helm]

everything runs perfectly fine normally and randomly has a stroke until i restart the game

[vapid gorge]

but was SF fine w/o the random strokes before? is it a suddenly things are bad?

[paper helm]

pretty sure this kept happening ever since i got the game, just very infrequent and once in a while but frequency has increased

[vapid gorge]

ok list of things to try in order

1. swap between dx 11 12 and vulkan. 11 is prob more stable but everyone is different. See if that changes things
2. turn off lumen if it's on
3. update drivers
4. back up saves , full reinstall after manually deleting any game folders
5. Back up anything you value, do a complete format of your hard drive (using a usb stick with software) and reinstall windows. Don't use the windows format tool, it's garbage. Before doing this step you probably want to download all the latest drivers for your cpu, motherboard, gpu and stick them on a usb stick

depending on source laptops can come with absolute craptons of stuff you don't need and they'll have a harder time with the game in the first place so nuking the drive and having a fresh start is a good practice. Also avoid 'helper control centers' from companies - generally just spy and bloat ware

And you're right because SF isn't optimised atm and it's a lap top and you prob have a bunch of stuff on it's probably struggling. All my other games were fine on my 1650 but I couldn't play SF with pretty graphics when my save got big

[paper helm]

ah

alright ill try these step

[vapid gorge]

but dropping to like 5fps suddenly suggests to me there's some garbage on your system

especially if you're save isn't massive

oh and always always be careful on installers when they give you optional 'install this things along with the software' check box. Just uncheck basically everything. I don't remember the last time I've seen that option as being a positive

[paper helm]

yea im pretty careful with those stuff

[vapid gorge]

good. Let me know if any of the steps change anything

[paper helm]

alright, thank you for your time

[vapid gorge]

nw! gl!

[jovial coral]

i have a train throughput question. i have a miner making 600 ore/min, and that goes into 1 cargo wagon (3200 capacity) and it completes a round trip in 3:40.
so with these numbers theoretically i am moving all 600 just fine (600/min * 3.66667 minutes = 2200 items in the wagon) and (to my understanding) should be getting 600/min transferred through the station

however the freight platform says im only getting 258/min incoming transfer rate

what part of this am i failing to account for with my setup?

i have input into the train station buffered with a double storage crate but i dont think that really matters in this case since im only putting 1 belt into it

[deft lichen]

You always need to buffer because of the lockout

2400 items / 3.67 min = 654 items/min

I wouldn't rely on the number in the UI. They tend to be inaccurate for train and truck stations

[jovial coral]

ohhh that makes sense. yeah i forgot i/o is halted during loading

okay if it should probably be fine i will just see how it runs. wish there was a component that measured item throughput better than stuff not being input starved

[deft lichen]

The only places that tell you real throughput in the game do it all incorrectly

[turbid cedar]

Yeah pipes don't even tell you correctly

Just do the math yourself

Items transported ÷ round trip time(mins) = throughout per minute
Simple

[wind spade]

that's incorrect

have to take the paused time into consideration

[turbid cedar]

That is the round trip time

If it transports 300 items every 10 minutes, that's 30/min throughput

[wind spade]

if the stations can handle that

[turbid cedar]

It's not perfectly accurate, but you can plug in almost anything and get a mostly correct figure

[wind spade]

here in #math-and-meta we want exact figures, not "mostly correct" 🙂

[turbid cedar]

Literally all math is "correct enough"

[wind spade]

not really. And throughput formulas exist on wiki

[turbid cedar]

Yeah

Auto save frequency affects throughput

[wind spade]

see https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Tutorial:Train_throughput

[median heath]

This is not the equation.

[median heath]

Someone rewrote this page and I still haven't gotten around to fixing it 😭

[turbid cedar]

Bro it says the equation I said

[wind spade]

where

[turbid cedar]

"amount of items carried batween stations and dividing it by the time it took the train to complete one round trip"

[wind spade]

that one is wrong

read the formulas below

[turbid cedar]

How is that wrong

[wind spade]

read the formulas below

(also it talks about "theoretical throughput", not actual)

[turbid cedar]

Like I said

[wind spade]

it's still wrong tho

as Sev said, someone changed it to wrong one

[turbid cedar]

The formula can be applied to ANYTHING

[wind spade]

it can, but you won't get correct result

[turbid cedar]

Trains, trucks, pipes, belts the whole jazz

[wind spade]

except that's not true

trains just work differently

[turbid cedar]

Give me a scenario in which the formula won't work

[wind spade]

are you aware of those 27 seconds in which the platforms aren't accepting or outputting anything, when train is docked?

[turbid cedar]

Bro

That is part of the total transportation time

[wind spade]

yeah but limits the amount of resources that can be loaded/unloaded into the plaform

hence limiting throughput

[turbid cedar]

Yeah

Has nothing to do with calculating the throughput

Simply count

Count how many item you get in a space of time

That's your throughput

[wind spade]

there's a reason the wiki has a whole page with graphs on it

people did the math on this topic

and you comming here and saying that we all are wrong even though we have years of experience in this manner is just rude

especially since we gave you our evidence

please read the wiki article (whole article) and tell me where it's wrong.

ignore the first paragraph though, that one is due to be replaced/removed

[median heath]

If you think a lockout where literally nothing is going through has nothing to do with throughput...

[frosty owl]

"... in a space on time" that's the issue (wording aside XD).
The load/unload time reduces the time the station spends HAVING THROUGHPUT. While docking, the throughput goes to 0. So a throughput formula of "items/time" is correct only if it spans over at least one full round-trip of the train, including docking (so it accounts for it) and assuming future docking will follow that timing (which is easy enough without crashes I think)

[oblique hollow]

unlike trucks where adding more trucks just shares the load, adding more trains just increases the time the station is locked down.
Assuming you use a buffer and connect 2 belts of mk 5 to the station and you ONLY supply 780/min, then for every Second that the station is locked down you need at least half a second to refill it.

else your freight platforms just run out of items indefinitely

[turbid cedar]

Interesting

Thanks!

[lusty summit]

from a point of energy efficiency , if you want to use a fuel type for the vehicles and in the long term you want to utilize both nuclear and batteries, given the limitation of sulfur, do you think the normal fuel recipe is good for vehicle fuel or should someone spare some sulfur and dedicate it for more battery/turbofuel producement?

[smoky cradle]

Would satisfactory benefit from an upgrade to a 5800X3D chip (specifically the 3D amd variant) or just a higher model like a 5900x? I'm on a 5800x and I sometimes hover around 60fps with mods, and im almost certain its a cpu thing

[lusty summit]

definetely a x3d

[smoky cradle]

Alright thanks

[lusty summit]

[smoky cradle]

Such a pain that am5 requires a whole new mb

[lusty summit]

even if you were to upgrade to am5, you would still get a 7800x3d for gaming purposes

the difference between 5800x3d to 7800x3d is not that huge to make a whole setup upgrade

you would have to upgrade mobo,memory and cpu

for example i built a new am5 rig last summer with a 7600x in it temporarily, will swap it with a 8800/8950x3d when they release it

heck, i wouldnt even need to swap it if i wasnt playing satisfactory which is cpu heavy

7600x is already so strong for a 6 core cpu for gaming

[smoky cradle]

Yeah, I upgraded to my new setup a month before the new gens came out so theres a little bit of salt, it does great on most games but for similar value I could have got the latest gen stuff if I had just waited a month

Though theres no point selling stuff now I guess

[lusty summit]

you didint lose anything, heck you even saved money doing that

[smoky cradle]

Well I would say theres some stuff i could have saved by waiting

[lusty summit]

i specifically vent with am5 since i had no new desktop

since it wouldnt be wise to buy new ddr4 kit

[smoky cradle]

I have a 6900xt from XFX but after a few months there 6950xt dropped to the same price

[lusty summit]

a solid 6000MT/s ddr5 expo kit will be enough for AM5 setup

so that's why i chose that route

[lusty summit]

i also got a 6950xt sapphire

after i bought it, the 7900xt/xtx released

so there wil lbe always new stuff comming around, dont worry

[smoky cradle]

Yeah thats true, new stuff comes every year after all it would be expensive to keep up lol

[lusty summit]

and it would be pointless

there is not much improvement between 1 generation

most of the time

[fair geode]

why arent these belts moving items

[median heath]

Because the machines have red lights?

[fair geode]

does that turn off all connected belts for some reaosn????

[median heath]

Buildings cannot accept input when their light is red.

[fair geode]

no not that

the belts in the middle arent moving any items

[spice egret]

“The middle”

Is that because there are no items on the belt, or because the belt is stopped with items on it?

[median heath]

Did you build a splitter or merger onto an existing belt?

[fair geode]

uh yeah

[median heath]

Yeah, don't.

[spice egret]

Typically just try dismantling and rebuilding the merger and splitter where it’s stuck

[median heath]

Typically just don't build mergers/splitters onto existing belts.

[spice egret]

Usually better to build the splitter or mergers first then connect the belt. Building onto an existing belt causes problems a lot of times. You’ll likely find a very small tiny belt segment underneath of them when you dismantle them

[fair geode]

oh thats really annoying.....

is this a recent bug?

[median heath]

No.

From like U1 to present it's never been recommended to build onto existing belts.

You build your mergers/splitters first, then you connect them.

[vapid gorge]

rebuilding the belt connections after you do that generally fixes it

[median heath]

Or completely fucks the problem because it doesn't update the internal belt.

Which is why you build in a way that completely avoids internal belts.

[vapid gorge]

orly? weird didn't know that

[median heath]

That's the core issue that let to NOT recommending it.

Updating the outside belts doesn't get the internal one.

[fair geode]

seems like a major bug that should be fixed or removed ngl

[median heath]

That's one opinion 🤷‍♂️

[fair geode]

since there is no reason this shouldnt be wokring and there is nothing in-game to recommend against bulding like that

[vapid gorge]

it's probably fairly down on the list tbh. I imagine because they keep working on belt mechanics that it's the type of thing that could get broken again in an update and cause more work

[median heath]

There is nothing in-game to recommend against building buffers, so people do, and they cause problems.
No bug to be had, just shitty building practice that leads to issues in that case. 🤷‍♂️

[fair geode]

if they just didnt have mergers and splitter ssnap to belts it wouldnt encourage building splitters and mergers on existing belts

[median heath]

It works fine as long as you're not upgrading/downgrading them.

But even if it worked perfectly I still wouldn't recommend it.

Because building your boxes first allows for precise, exact placement.

Whereas building onto a belt is usually a crapshoot as far as alignment.

Same thing with pipes. Build your junctions first then connect. 🤷‍♂️

[fair geode]

uhm.....

i think my belts are more than a little broken tbh

[median heath]

Is this on multiplayer or modded?

[fair geode]

singleplayer vanilla

or at least, its my world. i think multiplayer is enabled but im by myself rn

[median heath]

Has anyone else ever been on it?

[fair geode]

yeah

[median heath]

Multiplayer Broken. Plz Fix.

[vapid gorge]

there's sometimes weird latency issues with building items while multiple people play - usually with the person connecting to host

[fair geode]

huh i had to rebuild all the belts leading up to the blockage

[vapid gorge]

one of hte main issues is if you build too quickly the game may not register connections

[vapid gorge]

yeah that sounds about right

[fair geode]

im the host tho?

[median heath]

Also there are visual bugs that make belts LOOK like they aren't moving when they actually are. Those will be fixed when Ben gets to them.

[vapid gorge]

afaik it's unclear how much it affects host too. Building slower and waiting for animations to finish generally gets around the issue

but any multiplayer use or server use is accepting it's gonna have issues. It was only released cause people begged for it

[fierce ruin]

does any one know how many coal power plants can run using one pure coal node?

nvm

[vapid gorge]

all those types of questions are the sort of thing where you click on your miner to find out how much you can mine and how much the belt can carry

[fierce ruin]

oh ok

[vapid gorge]

since you can clock a miner to different production rates your limiting factor is often your belt speed - and then you look at how much a coal gen uses - which could also be clocked to use different amounts if you like

[fair geode]

are pipe junctions both splitters and mergers?

[vapid gorge]

yes - but in general you want to keep pipes as simple as possible and avoid a lot of merges and splits

[fair geode]

hmmm

[vapid gorge]

doing coal gens?

[fair geode]

if i have 3 water pumps for 8 coal generators is that enough?

yeah im doing coal

[vapid gorge]

yup! 360 water production and consumption

jsut be aware pipes have a maximum throughput too

[fair geode]

300/m

[vapid gorge]

you might be surprised how many people's issues on the qna is not realising that

[fair geode]

so i have this setup for my inputs rn, each pump is on its own pipe beacsue i didnt wanna do any merging outside my factory, is it better to move that wall back and make a pipe merging room?

the junctions seem awfulyl annoying to deal with tbh

[vapid gorge]

they're fairly straight forward honestly - but I can't really answer yoru question w/o a better over head shot of the area

this is a diagram of common solutions to what you're doing and might help

also be aware that feeding from below can cause flow issues though it's often not a problem with coal set ups. Also be aware floor holes occasionally are buggy

[fair geode]

buggy in what way?

[vapid gorge]

they sometimes kill head lift and don't connect properly
It's very easy to spot though as it simply doesn't feed the machine. Rebuilding the pipe fixes it as it's a low % of that happening

[fair geode]

wouldnt the third diagram run into issues with piping 360 water into a single pipe?

[vapid gorge]

the most common solution to floor holes though is to just clip through them and use them as an aesthetic

[lusty summit]

it became more frequent if you use in them in bps though

[fair geode]

noted

[lusty summit]

since i have so many vertical stuff i see that problem very often

[vapid gorge]

as for the diagram - coal gens will use some of the flow - so at no point in any of the examples does it need to move more than 300

[lusty summit]

i accepted it, i started even having the holes ready and not building the pipes in bps

i build them after, carefree solution xd

[vapid gorge]

work arounds for everyone 😄

[vapid gorge]

there's also many many ways you can set them up - like clocking things so you can just use 1 pipe or just having fewer gens and extractors. The diagram is just a good basic learning tool for new people

[fair geode]

huh this one specific pipe wont put water through

[lusty summit]

so fugly...

atleast no clipping

okay this was meant for design and arch

sorry

[vapid gorge]

rebuilding the section is the easiest and prob first troubleshooting step

[vapid gorge]

one of the reaons to feed from below 😛 though I'm sure you could lean into it and give it a heavy industrial look

[lusty summit]

i normally used to feed from below but now now i adapted feeding from top

[lusty summit]

is loop possible when fed from below?

[vapid gorge]

not only possible but pretty critical!

the example here is the one I've tested and use #design-and-architecture message

[vapid gorge]

the pipe stuff at this time stamp is pretty great https://youtu.be/qbecRhUjh5A?t=704

[lusty summit]

Okay this is interesting,but how exactly this setup prevents backflow?

[vapid gorge]

like any looped system

So in the below feeding set up the fluid comes from the right into a full loop, and then the feed pipes hook upwards

I don't think having the feed loop on the bottom is important but it might be as the lower pipe would have priority

[lusty summit]

This one is pretty clever, why i didint saw this when i was integrating to top feed

[vapid gorge]

shrug it's essentially just a regular loop tbh , very little different

But I tend to hate side or top feeding so I experimented to make sure I had a stable set up

and if you're feeding 2 liquids you could run the loops under the machines and have the further one have space between the top and bottom loop to let the feed pipes from the one behind go through

w/o clipping

[lusty summit]

Yeah, if i use below feed the logistics become so much easier

Since all my buildings already have 4 semi floors

[vapid gorge]

examples of me using it #design-and-architecture message

[lusty summit]

Tommorow i will try this, since im bulding a 180 gen plant, it will be the best usage

To test it out

[vapid gorge]

check out the vid I linked though - great use of explosed piping

[lusty summit]

I will, i saved both the links

[fair geode]

after wayyyy too long, i now haev a power plant up and running

[vapid gorge]

congrats! you're now out of the tutorial 😉

just as a thing I would probalby aim to dedicate 3-4 nodes of coal entirely to power and upgrade the number of gens when you get better miners and belts

[fair geode]

yeah once i unlock miner mk2 im gonna probably add like a second floor to the powerplant and double the number of generators

[vapid gorge]

have you unlocked overclocking?

[fair geode]

not yet

[median heath]

Prologue* 😉

[vapid gorge]

it's very useful.
with overclocking your miner output will largely be dictated by your belt speed

and if you're doing multiple floors consider some sort of stagering - that way you won't need to build it as tall https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1112183128623157318/1112196081317597204/image.png?ex=65beed51&is=65ac7851&hm=9f9b3c5d6e2db8ebb49993d71c16ea85d72806b2753c95868dad6df4055738b8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1091&height=905

I've seen a good version of this where the lights of generators were perpendicular to each other in a tower. Was nice

[fair geode]

was consdiering sliding each upper floor backwards by a tile

[vapid gorge]

lots of ways to do it 🙂

dealing with floors of some of the structures is a problem solving game on its own tbh

coal gens, refineries and fuel gens being hte worst offenders

[median heath]

Fuel gens are the only power generators I 100% highly recommend overclocking to cut down on their numbers.

[vapid gorge]

ugh yeah. Or rush to nuclear before doing a massive fuel station

[median heath]

Doing a massive amount of fuel is ridiculously easy though.
And makes the setup for nuclear easier.

[vapid gorge]

can always just have some power storage to bootstrap the nuclear. even 100 OCed fuel gens is just too big for my taste

[kind cairn]

ok, ive updated the modular coal generator power plant blueprint, this time with NO clipping! (aside from foundations scrunched up together, but theres no z-fighting)
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/blueprints/index/details/id/4472/name/Modular+Coal+Power+-+120-720+Coal%2Fm
W

[lusty summit]

Refineries are the worst

They have 2 exhaust points, which makes building a roof pita

And uneven points ofcourse, 1 tall af exhaust pipe and 1 top of the machine

[primal flicker]

Didn't they remove soft clearances?
Or did it sneak back in when I wasn't looking?

[barren hill]

Does underclocking coal power plants to have more per node increase power efficiency or is that pointless?

[wind spade]

each piece of coal has 300 MJ energy. You don't change that in any way

clocking gens just changes how much MW they generate

[barren hill]

Ah ok got it

[median heath]

It floats via magic 👀

[barren hill]

Nah trust the structure supports r hidden behind it

[median heath]

I require evidence.

[winged knot]

poxyi

[median heath]

?

[kind cairn]

Pointless.
Generators have linear clocking. Overclock to save space, if anything.

[lusty summit]

okay i just watched the video with clear mind, the pipework in that video is crazy

but it seems the person who built it uses scale really well,instead of going small compact factories, the said factory in the video is scaled to be as big as possible, it looks so good though

[lusty summit]

@vapid gorge That's why i always used to build vertically anyways

so much less space, i wish i knew this was a thing before demolishing all my vertical pipeline bps due to me thinking that loop can be only done above

the total space it takes

time to rebuild all of my pipe bps again lmao

[vapid gorge]

the factory they use is also not functional - but it's good to get ideas for aesthetics

[lusty summit]

i see, but this idea you gave me, also caused me so much work but i don't mind it since i can go back to below feeding haha

[winged knot]

guys, is it real to have 1.000.000MW legal in satisfactory?

[median heath]

If that translates to "Can you make 1 TW of power" -- yes. More than that actually.

[winged knot]

but how?

from atomic energy max is 635000MW

[median heath]

That is false.

Max Nuke is 1.19 TW.

Max Waste-Free Nuke (Using only Uranium Fuel Rods and then sinking Plutonium Fuel Rods) is 635 GW, yes.

[wind spade]

that's max uranium, but you also have plutonium

[median heath]

Max total power is just under 2 TW iirc.

[winged knot]

oh

okay, thanks guys

[wind spade]

max power:

• 560 GW plutonium
• 630 GW uranium
• 195 GW turbofuel
• 249 GW fuel
• 150 GW coal

total is roughly 1785 GW

(not including those few GW you get from geothermal and any biomass-based fuel)