#math-and-meta

1 messages · Page 92 of 1

frosty owl
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I had a fun mistake to correct in Tools: I copied my "building materials" factory plan and added some maximized Spelevator productions to see what numbers I could get with the leftovers; the numbers seemed too high, but after a while I understood it was due to me leaving something like 1k Biomass/min as input (previously provided to make packaged biofuel), which was being used up via the charcoal recipe inflating a lot the final numbers hehe

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Glares harder

wind spade
frosty owl
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The best usecase I see for myself would be if I wanted to run Coal Gens and had no Coal... For some reason thinking_helmet
Or maybe to make just a few steel products...

rustic patio
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i made a script that calculates which one is better at which point, ill turn it into a graph later have to go to a doctors appointment in a bit

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fn update(biomass: &mut f64, dna_capsule: &mut f64) {
    let biomass_cost = (500. *(((*biomass / 3.) - 1.).ceil()).powi(2)+1000.)/(100.*12.);
    let dna_capsule_cost = (*dna_capsule/3.).ceil();
    if biomass_cost > dna_capsule_cost {
        println!("DNA Capsule. Cost: {}", dna_capsule_cost);
        *dna_capsule += 1.;
    } else {
        println!("Biomass. Cost: {}", biomass_cost);
        *biomass += 1.;
    }
}
fn main() {
    let mut biomass: f64 = 1.;
    let mut dna_capsule: f64 = 1.;
    for _ in 0..1000 {
        update(&mut biomass, &mut dna_capsule);
    }
}
wind spade
fierce ruin
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Guys, do you know why I can't you the calculator?

image.png
deft lichen
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do you need individual buildings visualized?

fierce ruin
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Oh, I'm just a fool. I didn't know how to use

fierce ruin
median heath
rustic patio
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uhhh

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ive been too lazy to learn the graphing library so far 😩

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what kind of graph do u want btw?

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like from the spreadsheet?

median heath
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Aye.

rustic patio
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ah okay, so not a cost graph

median heath
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Just showing where the line is.

rustic patio
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so like, no price. just up/right for aliendna/biomass

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itll just be a png sadly

median heath
rustic patio
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i would do like, one line that shows how much alien protein it costs

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ill do both, you'll see

median heath
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👍

rustic patio
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yay i think ive kinda figured it out

median heath
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Yes

rustic patio
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this is the price per ticket if you do just biomass

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ill do the other thingy now

median heath
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Like that's part of why the sheet was only 700x700

rustic patio
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done

median heath
# rustic patio done

Lovely, now just need to denote which side of the line is which side of the line.

rustic patio
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i think i made a mistake tho

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its not lining up with what desmos predicted, and not with ur spreadsheet either i think

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finally

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@median heath how many ticxkets do u want?

median heath
rustic patio
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thats difficult with the way i wrote it cause you just enter how many tickets you want and it adjusts the chart accordingly

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i could just cap the chart off tbh

median heath
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How many tickets needs 2 inputs though.

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Because you have regular tickets and DNA tickets

rustic patio
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heres the chart capped off to 100x100

0.png
median heath
rustic patio
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yes

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one up mkeans you need to do a dna capsule

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one to the right means you need to do a biomass

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so the first 3 are biomass coupons

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the next 3 alien dna

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then 3 biomass

wind spade
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basically if you have number of normal / dna coupons you have, you use them as X/Y coordinates and then look if the point is below or above the line

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which tells you what is the more efficient way to process the protein

rustic patio
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yes

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if you are above the line you need to do biomass, below the line is dna coupons

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Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
this is the opitmal order for the first few

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its basically the spread sheet but turned around

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heres the pic for the first million

0.png
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(look at the scale of both axis)

rustic patio
# 
use plotters::prelude::*;
const AMOUNT: i32 = 1000000;
const WIDTH: u32 = 2160;
const HEIGHT: u32 = 2160;
fn update(biomass: &mut f32, dna_capsule: &mut f32, coordinates: &mut Vec<(f32, f32)>) {
    let biomass_cost = (500. * (((*biomass / 3.) - 1.).ceil()).powi(2) + 1000.) / (100. * 12.);
    let dna_capsule_cost = (*dna_capsule / 3.).ceil();
    // dbg!(dna_capsule_cost > biomass_cost);
    // println!("biomass cost: {}\ndna capsule cost: {}\n", biomass_cost, dna_capsule_cost);
    if biomass_cost > dna_capsule_cost {
        println!("DNA Capsule");
        *dna_capsule += 1.;
    } else {
        println!("Biomass");
        *biomass += 1.;
    }
    let point = (*biomass-1., *dna_capsule-1.);
    coordinates.push(point);
}
fn main() -> Result<(), Box<dyn std::error::Error>> {
    let mut coordinates: Vec<(f32, f32)> = vec![(0.,0.)];
    let mut biomass: f32 = 1.;
    let mut dna_capsule: f32 = 1.;
    for _ in 0..AMOUNT {
        update(&mut biomass, &mut dna_capsule, &mut coordinates);
    }

    let root = BitMapBackend::new("./0.png", (WIDTH, HEIGHT)).into_drawing_area();
    root.fill(&WHITE)?;
    let mut chart = ChartBuilder::on(&root)
        .margin(8)
        .x_label_area_size(40)
        .y_label_area_size(70)
        .build_cartesian_2d(
            // -1f32..100f32,
            // -1f32..100f32
            -1f32..coordinates[coordinates.len() - 1].0,
            -1f32..coordinates[coordinates.len() - 1].1,
        )?;

    chart
        .configure_mesh()
        .x_desc("Biomass")
        .y_desc("DNA Capsule")
        .draw()?;

    chart.draw_series(LineSeries::new(coordinates, &RED))?;
    // .label("y = x^2")

    chart
        .configure_series_labels()
        .background_style(&WHITE.mix(0.8))
        .border_style(&BLACK)
        .draw()?;

    root.present()?;

    Ok(())
}
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heres the horrible code btw

thorny cedar
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i would have used desmos for example and just the equasion tho

rustic patio
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How would you do it in desmos?

snow dove
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take the equation, input into reanos

rustic patio
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Like, genuine question. I tried and gave up because I know programming and don't know math

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What's the equation?

thorny cedar
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you can build it

rustic patio
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Yea I told you I'm not good at math

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Writing a script to do it was faster than trying to learn math 😩

median heath
# rustic patio whats the point?

Because there are practical limits to how many tickets people will acquire. So showing the comparison at 90,000 regular tickets vs. 2500 DNA tickets isn't exactly relevant.

Like a zoomed in version where the limit is 500 DNA tickets is probably best imo

rustic patio
thorny cedar
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what is that graph about i did not follow you compare biomass and dna capsules?

wind spade
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given X redeemed coupons and Y redeemed DNA coupons, which coupon should I make next from alien remains

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(aiming for coupon efficiency ofc)

thorny cedar
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so its easier to make 2 graphs showing dna coupons and biomass coupons?

wind spade
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not really? since you are asking which one to pick

thorny cedar
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and where its crossing there is the efficiency change?

wind spade
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that's... not possible

you have two variables

median heath
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The single line tells you that.
When above it, X better, when below it, Y better.

thorny cedar
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below 85k dna capsule 2500 biomass is worse or better?

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still sound wrong or is it 85k biomass to 2500 capsules?

rustic patio
wind spade
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it depends on number of coupons redeemed from both

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because each coupon cost scales differently

rustic patio
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here its scaled to 500, it basically looks the same as the million one just more visible steps

thorny cedar
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so this graph what is better at 20/50 dna capsules?

rustic patio
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you basically always want to take the lowest line, and depending on which one is the lowest, you go up or down

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whenever the blue line is lower you go up, whenever the red line is lower you go to the right

wind spade
rustic patio
thorny cedar
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i get it

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it shows the diminishing returns not the values after the lets say 30 biomass is less eff than 50 capsules

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or more idk its to early xD#

rustic patio
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@median heath did you account for the fact that one alien protein gives 1200 biomass points and 1000 normal points?

wind spade
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12000*

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iirc

neon nexus
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hi, is there a way to change by default the power pole from mk1 to mk2 ? (when u get one from pulling a wire from another pole)

wind spade
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no

rustic patio
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i have it as 1200 i think

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1 alien protein gives 100 biomass and each biomass has 12 sink value

wind spade
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then the spreadsheet may be wrong 😄

rustic patio
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vertical is dna capsule horizontal is biomass

wind spade
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since it uses 12000

rustic patio
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where is the 12000?

wind spade
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somewhere in there it's 12/x vs 1/y

rustic patio
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ah

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yes

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thats why biomass is so much better in the spreadshet

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in the spreadsheet the first 15 are biomass, in mine its only the first 3

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heres a pic from desmos that shows it

image.png
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first 3 is red (biomass) then 3lue then 3 red then 3 blue then 3 red then 6 blue

rustic patio
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@median heath how did the discussion start that resulted in the spreadsheet?

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Would love to read the chat

median heath
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Will DM it to you.

wind spade
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@twilit blade why using roundabouts? 😄

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that's like the worst rail junction you can think of

twilit blade
wind spade
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if a train needs to U-turn, then the issue is that it should go in the proper direction in the first place

crisp kettle
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Anyone around to help with some Pipe Math? Trying to execute this build and figure out how to make the Heavy Oil Residue work... I'm thinking valves?

image.png
wind spade
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what exactly do you need to make work?

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and no, don't use valves

crisp kettle
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I'm trying to figure out how to get the decimals to work without over/under clocking the Rubber refineries

wind spade
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(also, you may consider using the alternate heavy oil residue recipe)

wind spade
crisp kettle
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that's what I was thinking but wasn't sure about the valve idea. Thanks 🙂

wind spade
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fyi, valves (in the current state) are essentially pointless, except for very specific cases, which 99.9% of players won't ever hit
buffers are in similar situation, don't use them, except for train loading/unloading

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(also both valves and buffers are basically "they either do nothing or hurt your build")

crisp kettle
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Ahhh the alt Heavy Oil Res was what I was missing in my build in the first place... I thought I got all the alt recipies... but now I'm getting the Turbo Fuel I was expecting.

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now to find more Sulfer lol

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a lot more Sulfer lol

wind spade
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or... don't build turbofuel, just stay on fuel and ez

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nuclear is gonna make you tons of power anyway

vapid gorge
crisp kettle
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yeah this was more of a buffer until I hit nuclear anyway

wind spade
crisp kettle
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thanks 🙂

prisma kraken
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it's actually super-straightforward if you do some OC'ing

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the real trick is actually to break the build into smaller ones that consume 300 oil + 200 sulfur for 400 TF

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essentially, this is how i built mine:

image.png
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in a picture, like this:

Screenshot20231013-03081200000.png Screenshot20231015-00050200000.png
prisma kraken
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i could troll on it being a waste in making aluminum, but i get that some people like easy, small builds

delicate chasm
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About (blended) turbofuel... The thing that gets me is the crude requirement never seeming to work out. 400 TF is great and all but I don't know what you'd clock the generators to in order to avoid a floating decimal. Best case IMO is to at that point divert some TF to packaging and etc.

If you just run the chain once it's fine. 800 TF is the same; you'll divert an imprecise amount to an unstable production but your power production at least won't hiccup.

TF really wants to be made and consumed in multiples of 1.5 (1.5*6 = 9, gens take 4.5 or 9 or 11.25, which is 45/4) when using the diluted chain. And that probably means 675 crude (or 337.5, or 168.75).

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675 doesn't feel so bad when you have 225 sulfur to spare; you can always make a rubber/plastic loop with 75 or 225 crude after all. Those numbers check out.

prisma kraken
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this is why:

image.png
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no way is 6 seconds a repeating decimal

delicate chasm
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Game is rounding, it's one of those 10,000 hour blip scenarios (probably).

0.045 x 222.2222 = 9.999999

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In practice it's absolutely not an issue but I know that's not really 10 and that's a real issue for me.

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On the other hand I should probably subsume this dilemma as further evidence that 3 is the ultimate truth. 🤷‍♂️ Your design is awesome, no complaints, tbh.

prisma kraken
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you're assuming that the game doesn't convert 222.2222% to a number of seconds for its internal representation (and rounds it to an integral number of seconds internally with the precision of a full floating point variable)

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sometimes things are rounded correctly 🙂

delicate chasm
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Why would it not just round the display number, and instead override your setting with a different number than what you entered for the part that actually does matter?

I am making the assumption that it's structured to resolve to 9.999999 and then either rounds that for display purposes (and is truly 9.999999) or that internally the number is both rounded AND truncated, which would put it further from 10, not closer.

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I think that if an assumption is to be made, it would be more logical to assume display numbers are rounded to the nearest value they normally would display - so in this case 9.9999(99) just rounds up by 0.0001 to 10.

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222.2 is also 10m3 and 333.33 MW.

222.15 is showing 10m3 and 333.22 MW.

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Both still display 6 Sec for the time - and the values are so close I can't tell a difference, but I do believe there to be one there ESPECIALLY since at some point I get a lesser production value.

image.png
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Lastly if you type 333.33 MW in for target MW directly you get set to 222.22%

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So I think it's rounding and truncating everything past the fourth decimal place.

prisma kraken
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tbh, i enter 222.22222222222222222222222222222222222 (don't count, just hold down the number)

delicate chasm
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It...definitely doesn't keep that.
Try that with fives and it dead-ass rounds it up. It's just truncating your 2s my friend.

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55.55555555555555555555 target MW is 55.56 so it's even worse in target production fields where it only goes to 2 decimal places.

prisma kraken
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oh, i know it is, but the question is what it truncates it to?

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i'd guess it does an sscanf("%f",...) on what you input and that ends up as a 32-bit float

delicate chasm
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The fourth decimal place.

First dropoff is 222.2166%
0.045 * 222.2166 = 9.999747 and rounds down to 9.9997, giving 333.32 (displayed) MW.
9.9998 expectedly displays 333.33 MW, so this strongly suggests the fifth decimal place is used to determine rounding on the fourth.

prisma kraken
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then that float divides the base cycle count in seconds, resulting in another 32-bit float, and then that internally gets converted to a number of milli or microseconds for a factory 'tick'

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i theorize that the rounding happens in two places: one in the initial scanf() to convert it to a float, and then again to convert it to an integral number of milli/micro seconds

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i'm guessing the rounding comes out in the wash

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I'm thinking of the most straightforward code i'd write in c++ for accepting the input and converting it to x.y seconds for a factory tick

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it may be that they only use a 10 character buffer to stash the string input or something random like that

delicate chasm
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I'm a simple man with simple taste. I'd divide by 100 and multiply by clock speed, and only do rounding once if possible. Truncation only for repeating decimal points and I agree with the 1,000th standard.

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I would obviously make a less good factory game than you.

median heath
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@delicate chasm I am very late this and I can see only half of it, but the initial complaint was about the Oil to TurboBlend conversion rate, yes?

delicate chasm
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No sir, just some light debate over 400 vs. 450 TF as output target, or multiples thereof.

median heath
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Why would 400 even be the target?

prisma kraken
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so thought question for you...

delicate chasm
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Mainly me having coke bottle glasses about 9.999999 not being 10.

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It's actually not an issue at all I don't think, and might not even exist if I'm wrong about the way it's coded. 😅

prisma kraken
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base turbofuel burn rate is 4.5/min, and that equates to a 13.3333 second cycle time

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does that mean it always burns at an inexact rate?

median heath
prisma kraken
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could he either unblock me or stop interrupting a conversation?

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its just fricking rude

delicate chasm
prisma kraken
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or it just all comes out in the wash with the rounding of things

delicate chasm
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Coming out in the wash in this instance would require that it eats an extra unit of TF every so often for no reason though.

prisma kraken
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maybe it happens, i don't pay attention enough to one generator bounce every 1000 seconds

delicate chasm
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Consumption being 9.9999 in reality rather than 10 means you'll jam, not starve.

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In a few hundred years...

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But if it does in fact just delete a unit because that's what it is displaying should happen, I am mystified but accept.

prisma kraken
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i would expect after 1000+ hrs, i'd see a lot more problems with a fuel plant if it didn't end up being rounded okish

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i can't say for sure w/o seeing the code for the input

delicate chasm
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Well...if you happen to know exactly how many holdover units stay in one of your blenders after achieving stability, and a thousand hours later that number has changed, it probably is backing up.

prisma kraken
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its possible

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the question is whether we should even care, lol

delicate chasm
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I usually let blenders back up very slightly and then purge 1 segment until they are backing up to 1-2 units and then emptying just before finishing the cycle. ❤️

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(when prefilling the manifold)

prisma kraken
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yeah, i do too

delicate chasm
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We should not care, no. Like I said your design is just fine, no issues really. But I will, respectfully, do 675 crude if I ever do TF again.

prisma kraken
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the game itself may do something pretty wacky and internally keep time in 169's of a second or something bizarre for optimization reasons

delicate chasm
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Base 60

Solve ♾️ with a napkin

Break music

prisma kraken
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?

delicate chasm
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Lesse, wikipedia links allowed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal

Sexagesimal

Sexagesimal, also known as base 60, is a numeral system with sixty as its base. It originated with the ancient Sumerians in the 3rd millennium BC, was passed down to the ancient Babylonians, and is still used—in a modified form—for measuring time, angles, and geographic coordinates.
The number 60, a superior highly composite number, has twelve f...

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Yay!

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(Related: The LCM of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 is 420 and other numerologically inspired memes)

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This one was Pythagoras breaking music by dabbling with Base 60.

prisma kraken
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um, ok, lol

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so, my experiment this evening was to answer whether you can get the impure uranium node's output down off the cliff using a single drone, and it is possible to get the full 300/min with a single one

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i'm pretty sure i actually did that before back in the update 5 era, but the spire coast update ate my nuclear plant, lol

leaden depot
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Ok no balancer people... I have 4000 bauxite coming in on 6 belts with different amounts (780,600,460). I have to feed 12 refineries that need 333.333 each. Manifolds seem tricky, since I often overflow at the places where I need to inject more ore.

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How do I avoid a rube goldberg 6:12 balancer?

thorny cedar
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manifold is easy

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smart split on each lane to one ref if you have a 780 belt it can even be 2

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merge the overflows to less than 780 per belt

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smartsplit them in the remeining refs

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with the same procedure if you want

median heath
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Manifolds seem tricky, since I often overflow at the places where I need to inject more ore.

How so?

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Also which recipe are you using that needs 333.33333?
Because should never be the input requirement.

leaden depot
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sloppy alumina clocked to 166

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I made my spite balancer:

Screenshot20231107-08282700000.png
wind spade
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injection manifolds are indeed tricky, but if you just do one manifold per belt, it's super easy

leaden depot
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I suppose... but when the overflows can't merge into the next belt, I gotta add more spaghetti.

wind spade
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what do you mean overflows?

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you have 3 belts, put them into 3 manifolds

median heath
thorny cedar
oblique hollow
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you already use 2 shards per machine

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shift the percentages around

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if you underclock one machine 2 %, clock another one 2% up

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play around so you can do multiple manifold without needing to inject

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you can go up to 200% so might as well make use of that

leaden depot
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if i go to 18 refineries it does become much cleaner numbers

oblique hollow
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yeah then do that, if you have the space for it

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though technically 20 should be right

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if you have clock speed of 166.6666% in all 12 that is equal to 20 refineries at 100%

leaden depot
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I hear what ya'll are saying, and I appreciate you, but the siren song of perfect balance is just irresistale to me. It feels like malpractice to let a belt back up, or to not treat my precious refineries as equals.

Screenshot20231107-11003300000.png
true junco
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Well. Thats a choice you've made for you. There are objective pros and cons that can be considered. But if you accept that and it feels good then no harm done imo.

Some folks do seam to get pretty raw about balancer discussions. 😆

frosty owl
prisma kraken
# leaden depot Ok no balancer people... I have 4000 bauxite coming in on 6 belts with different...

I had similar problems rounding up the pink forest bauxite and processing it, what i did was essentially built the same set-up 8 times, one per node and clocked them differently to support the different miner rates... for all of them, i went with a 4+4 refinery configuration with the sloppy+electro+pure recipes, and for the 4 780 nodes, i added 6 extra smelters; for the 1 impure node, i just clocked the processing unit down to 50%

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it looks something like this

Screenshot20231012-22264900000.png
oblique hollow
prisma kraken
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was there ever a purpose in the game for valves?

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btw, i found something interesting the other night with respect to headlift and trying to stabilize the water in an oil rig

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i found that it is an exceptionally bad idea to push a fluid up to machines that consume it that have inputs at multiple altitudes

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in my case, i had 2 dilluted fuel blenders at a lower altitude clocked to 250%, and 2 refineries making residual plastic at 125% at a higher altitude, altogether consuming 500 m^3 of water (essentially half the water consuming portion of a recycling loop), and the water always prioritized entering the blenders which starved the rubber refineries

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i was trying to simplify a design i knew worked to take 2 water pipes of 500 instead of 3 pipes of 400, 200, 400, and it just didn't work for me

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i probably could have ham-fisted made it work by pushing the water up and looping the feed to all the consumers back down, but the goal was simplification, and it was a failed experiment for that

frosty owl
oblique hollow
# frosty owl What? I can't parse this

Valve info in the manual? Possibly outdated.

The thing they mention in their post with prefilling a buffer and then being able to supply it without any pumps? That feels illegal

prisma kraken
frosty owl
oblique hollow
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Right i forgot water towers can indeed share head lift with many lines. As long as that buffer stays at one level and doesnt start filling its fine i guess

delicate chasm
# prisma kraken was there ever a purpose in the game for valves?

I'm almost certain that the valve is intended to be used with aluminum and acids. Recycled water mixed with fresh - you can just valve the fresh water supply.

If you build your aluminum out level instead of stacking for example, the addition of a valve set to 80m3/m on your water extractor (or whatever your precise requirement is after scaling and clocking) prevents water backing up by itself.

Allowing the scrap refinery to stop without a valve means you will have to purge the network to get it going again. With a valve, you just remove the scrap from the refinery and it starts going again. It won't even have liquid backing up inside of it, because the pipe network will fill and the extractor will back up.

Obviously when everything is continuous, this quickly becomes a non-issue and it's entirely feasible to build aluminum and acid with no valves. I generally don't use valves myself.

wind spade
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if valves worked propely, they'd probably have a few uses

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however with the way they work currently (whether that's correct or a bug) forbids us from using them basically anywhere

delicate chasm
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Yeah. The use case above is the only one I'm aware of in which they actually do what you would expect for them to do.

Otherwise, aesthetics. They're good for putting on the end of a manifold so it looks like you could drain it and etc.

median heath
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VIP junction > Valve that worked properly.

summer flare
# leaden depot I made my spite balancer:

Possible distribution; two halves with a 780 and 600 each, 390 from the third 780 split two ways and 230 from the 460 split two ways.
For each half have 3 mergers, the 780 split between two of them, the 390 to the third, the 600 split three ways to each and the 230 split 3 ways to each. That should give you 6 of 666.66666. At the refinery end, split each to give 2 x 333.3333.

thorny cedar
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just an exp for 3 belt manifold

image.png
prisma kraken
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(it doesn't even need a VIP)

delicate chasm
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Obviously when everything is continuous, this quickly becomes a non-issue and it's entirely feasible to build aluminum and acid with no valves. I generally don't use valves myself.

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I've stopped dogging people suggesting others use VIPs but I have not yet encountered a situation where a valve was necessary to accomplish a goal, except obviously "the goal is find a use for the valve" or aesthetics.

tired sandal
#

i cant figure out how to manage the resource incoming from Miner to input on productions i have a lot remaining resource for example see the picture .. i thing i need a splitter amount resources output / incoming 😛 so that i can control how many resources i need to send from some productions 😉

image.png
snow dove
#

underclock the miner to match consumption

tired sandal
thorny cedar
#

ask google

tired sandal
frosty owl
delicate chasm
# tired sandal and what will i do when i put M3 +3 overclock? oO

What has for ME been the strongest solution is maximizing production in an area according to the belt speed that you have available and underclocking where possible, overclocking where necessary.

What this does for modularity is cause you to anticipate layouts according to a specific target number, i.e. max belt speed, and subsequent belt and miner upgrades just enable you to tile the layout further. Leaving one end of a factory open for expansion is more of an early game pursuit IMO but occasionally I build for 240 with a mind to double it later on mark 4 belts.

prisma kraken
#

my approach to it is to build whatever works and is needed as bare-bones production to get to mk5 belts and mk3 miners

viral veldt
#

is there a reason that occasionally my grid will trip even though max consumption is less than max production?

#

its only 1MW difference, but its happened a couple different times on different grids too

wind spade
#

hoverpack?

viral veldt
#

no, i havent gotten that far. on the line it just happened on i've got two coal plants making 150mw total, and a collection of miners, smelters, assemblers, and constructors with a truck station using a total of 149

vapid gorge
#

trains?

viral veldt
#

again, not quite that far yet 😅

#

im working on phase 2 of the space elevator

vapid gorge
#

possible there's a small spike with messing around things building/connecting/overclocking

#

tiny bugs can happen and depends if you're multiplayer, server, u7 or u8

viral veldt
#

that was my thought that there may just be an odd time that the machines want 149 but the generators are between production ticks or something

vapid gorge
#

and apparently there's an issue where those lines may not be accurate if you're messing with clocking until reload

viral veldt
#

im just on single u7

vapid gorge
#

well w/o seeing it I'd guess a tiny bug that's rarely seen since people generally don't run that close to max

viral veldt
vapid gorge
#

not like it's a critical problem , and you can do it, just my opinion on it.

viral veldt
#

oh yeah sorry i dont have the gens oc'd, i just have a handful of machines oc'd

vapid gorge
#

ahhh yeah yeah nw.

viral veldt
#

but yeah i dont want to have to set up a third coal generator bc then i'll either have to oc a water collector or make a second one to keep both lines going at max productivity

vapid gorge
#

first map?

viral veldt
#

and it just so happened that i can make my steel beams, pipes, and automated wiring with 149mw

viral veldt
vapid gorge
#

is there an issue with making a 2nd water extractor?

viral veldt
#

not in this area, i just want to keep it clean since the actual land area is pretty small, so I'd be building a good ways over one of the giant lakes

#

im more restricted by my aesthetic preferences lol

vapid gorge
#

so because it's a sandbox and you can do basically whatever you want this isn't iron clad stuff - but I think a lot of people probably end up with 48+ coal gens before hitting fuel. So finding a distant coal+water source away from your base can be pretty handy. Stops it from keeping it cluttered near your factories and I find it useful to keep power infrastructure completely independent of factories

#

there's at least 1 convenient lake with 3-4 coal nodes next to it in every region too

viral veldt
#

yeah ive got my first factory making all the stage 1 parts, and there i've got a set up for the 3:8 coal plant feeding from a pure node a ways off, and the line that bugged on me is getting coal delivered from a separate node, and using that coal to power 2 gens on 1 collector, and to make steel and automated wiring

#

since there happened to be an iron and copper deposit right next to each other

#

at the big factory im about to ramp up concrete production, and redo my first copper line so im getting wire, cable, and sheets

vapid gorge
#

redoing a bunch of stuff after you've got coal is pretty common 🙂 and you pick up how you want to handle logistics too. It's a pretty good learning curve

viral veldt
#

yeah i had a ton of fun figuring out how i was gonna run all my pipes and conveyors for my big coal plant since i really didnt want them clipping

vapid gorge
#

wall mounts, different height poles - all useful 🙂 also burning the coal next to the water source generally simplifies thing

#

piping gets more complicated later on - keeping pipes simple can really help

viral veldt
#

this is a decent shot of what i ended up going with

image.png
#

the water is fed above anyways, since this is right next to a cliff face

vapid gorge
#

Feeding from above - also a good move. You can feed from the side pretty easily, I wouldn't feed from below unless you're confident about pipes

viral veldt
#

this should give you a rough idea of the top side

image.png image.png
vapid gorge
#

how the loop connection at the back connects the two? in general I wouldn't recommend changing the elevation of part of a fluid manifold midway. Later on that might lead to flow issues.

#

early pipe set ups with coal gens and mk1 pipes thoug hare far more forgiving

viral veldt
#

the loop at the back is just to connect the two banks, which i've gathered should always be done with manifolds, which mine is a 3 to 2 thats right underneath me

#

should the loop be at the same elevation as the manifold?

vapid gorge
#

You can avoid having to loop, in general, by only having like 2 or 3 machines being fed from a junction? I don't play around with that much though and looping, I find, is a solution for all pipe set ups.
But yeah having elevation changes in a manifold can make some strange behaviour

For example, later, if you want to feed two sets of machines on 2 different floors of a factory with fluid? make 2 distinct manifolds, don't split one and feed two floors

#

It's not impossible to get something like that to work - I've just found it doesn't work reliably first go. A bit more fiddly.

viral veldt
#

good to know, i've heard that mk2 pipes can be a headache at best, so I've been trying to plumb with mk2 principles in mind even though it won't affect any of my current setups

vapid gorge
#

mk2 are fine once you know what they are. Issues crop up because machines will pull fluid from the centre of the manifold and make a gap and have the fluid further along flow back, which can cause a stutter in production.

That's why looping so fluid can go from both ends and pre flooding a system and machines so there's no gaps

#

The rest, like not splitting fluid manifolds between floors, or merging then re spliting fluid pipes is more about ease of getting it going and trouble shooting

#

I've seen people connect and resplit a group of like 10 fluid manifolds getting them on the same circuit (for reasons I guess) and then try to figure out where the issue is in the system when something is stuttering. Nightmare

#

and if you keep it to feeding like 2 or 3 machines with a mk2 pipe? probably fine.
And I've gotten turbo fuel fed generators working fine w/o a loop but just flooded. I think with that one it's that each generator pulls so little fuel pm that it doesn't disrupt or make gaps very easily

#

but yeah, I tend to give people tips for all purpose reliable solutions

viral veldt
#

yeah thanks, hopefully i'll remember this when its necessary 🙃

vapid gorge
#

there's a few people on here fairly regulary for future help even if you forget 🙂

viral veldt
#

i don't forsee myself having too many issues though since i like to keep everything simple and diagnosable, and i typically run stuff as close to capacity as i can

#

ofc that'll probably bite me when i get to fuel gens

vapid gorge
#

nah, everything we jsut talked about will see you through for fuel easily

#

send X amount of fluid from point A to point B, don't merge/split systems, keep it on a level, Loop and preflood

#

if it doesn't work you've made a small math or build mistake. Or maybe a bugged connection or something but that's rare if you're not using floor holes

viral veldt
#

fair enough

terse swift
#

Bro, how did you do that, could you tell me?

rustic patio
#

@median heath i got it in 3d

vapid gorge
rustic patio
#

i tried to make it a gif but due to some weirdness of the library i had to recalculate everything for every frame so it takes ages and i had to lower the length and fps a lot

#

im probably just doing osmething wrong (100%) but idk how to do it right so thisll have to do for now

#

oops i had the number wayy too high, time to render it again 🤠

#

it spins 🎉

oblique hollow
rustic patio
#

it shows the efficiency of converting alien protein to DNA and coupons vs to biomass and coupons

#

the height is the cost of each coupon in alien protein

#

X axes is alien proteiin and z axes is biomass i think

#

heres a p ng of it

worn cove
#

So.. which one is more efficient snuttstach_think I'm too stupid to read the diagram jacelul

rustic patio
#

it shows the most efficient path

worn cove
#

Oh. okay that would make more sense

rustic patio
#

Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
Biomass
Biomass
Biomass
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule
DNA Capsule

#

if you were to start with 0 coupons from normal sink and 0 from the dna capsule sink then this would be the most efficient order

#

the image/gif just shows that "path"

oblique hollow
#

so alternate first, then DNA, got itjace_smile

rustic patio
#

+1 in the X axis is one alien protein to dna capsule and +1 in the Z axis is one alien protein to biomass

#

the height is the cost of the coupon in alien protein

rustic patio
#

heres a graph that shows how the cost of biomass and dna capsule increase

image.png
true junco
#

Wow. those gifs made discord mess up on my phone. Scrolling hitched when trying to go past them...

mystic moon
#

Same here

#

It actually full locked up the app

deft lichen
#

oh that's what made my phone unusable

oblique hollow
#

Laura found the ultimate mobile lag source xd

prisma kraken
rustic patio
#

You gain very little from it

#

And like, it's only relevant if you don't sink any other items

prisma kraken
#

yeah, i figured that was a given

rustic patio
#

I'll make a chart for it when I'm back at my computer, good idea

prisma kraken
#

i'd be surprised if the net is more than 5 coupons

#

i'd also bet that finding the heatsinks at the rocky desert crash site and sinking them is enough to overshadow any gain

median heath
rustic patio
#

Well yes but if you have a steady stream of regular tickets coming you'll never reach the point where converting to biomass is better than DNA

median heath
#

Depends on how many things you kill and how fast 😉

rustic patio
#

In extreme edge cases, yes

median heath
#

I did clarify when I posed the idea that it was most likely a pointless comparison. 😂

sharp lion
rustic patio
#

Same now that I look at it on my phone

#

It's weirdly big, I think because I gave it a ton of fps

thorny cedar
#

rnd graph gif 144 fps

deft lichen
#

probably should be reported but Discord support will respond with the usual "have you tried reinstalling the app" lol

thorny cedar
#

have you tried a new phone

deft lichen
#

"yes"
"alright...please try switching into the beta"

mystic moon
thorny cedar
#

first turn it of and on again

rustic patio
#

The first one was 144mb 🤠

thorny cedar
#

16 times the detail

#

you can prob ddos dc server with this kind of stuff

#

just post 3 in each channel server is done

sharp lion
median heath
#

@rustic patio if you want to try and solve the other completely useless comparison metric I gave greeny, I am more than happy to explain it 😁

rustic patio
rustic patio
median heath
# rustic patio Gladly

Recipe comparison in terms of COUPON COST efficiency.

I.E. You cannot mine anything, so you will never have ingots.
All items must be purchased from the shop, but if it is cheaper you CAN buy the components for an item and have a building put them together for you.

#

(Relevance: very specific challenge run I invented where the above is the ruleset with the additional rule that your only source of coupons is DNA caps - so you literally have to hunt your way through the game progression)

thorny cedar
#

not even leaves?

median heath
#

Nope.

rustic patio
median heath
#

Cheapest?

#

It's more of a linear algebra thing like Tools

thorny cedar
#

but what are you building if you are not allowed to mine ore?

median heath
#

Stuff to assemble from parts you do buy.

rustic patio
thorny cedar
rustic patio
#

Like, what's the goal

thorny cedar
#

or space elevator

median heath
#

Like from the above constraint, it is cheaper to buy the components for Steel Rotor and assemble vs just buying Rotors

median heath
rustic patio
#

So, for everything

median heath
#

Aye.

#

I already have all the numbers--

Coupon : Item Count

Cable 2 : 200
Wire 1 : 500
AIL 3 : 100
QW 2 : 500
CB 3 : 200
HSC 4 : 100
Battery 3 : 200
ECR 4: 100

Concrete 2 : 500
Crystal 2 : 200
Silica 1 : 200

Pipe 1 : 200
Casing 1 : 200
ASheet 2 : 200
HMF 6 : 50
EIB 3 : 100
Beam 2 : 200
Plate 1 : 200
RIP 3 : 100
Frame 4 : 50
CSheet 2 : 200
Screw 1 : 500
Rod 1 : 200

Rotor 3 : 100
Stator 3 : 100
Motor 5 : 50
Heat Sink 3 : 100
Turbo 8 : 50
Cooling 5 : 100
FMF 7 : 50

Osc 4 : 100
Comp 6 : 50
RCU 7 : 50
Super 8 : 50

Plastic 1 : 200
Rubber 1 : 200

Powder 1 : 200
Smokeless 1 : 100

Packaged Fuel 2 : 100
Packaged Turbofuel 4 : 100
Packaged LBF 3 : 100
Canister 1 : 100
Fluid Tank 1 : 100
PCC 8 : 50

Compacted Coal 1 : 100
Copper Powder 1 : 500
Biomass 1 : 200
Solid Biofuel 2 : 200
Fabric 3 : 10
Gas Filter 1 : 25
Radiation Filter 1 : 10
Iron Rebar 1 : 50
Stun Rebar 1 : 50
Shatter Rebar 2 : 50
Explosive Rebar 3 : 50
Nobelisk 1 : 25
Gas Nobelisk 1 : 25
Pulse Nobelisk 1 : 25
Cluster Nobelisk 2 : 25
Rifle Ammo 1 : 250
Homing Ammo 3 : 250
Turbo Ammo 3 : 250

rustic patio
#

Seems fun, I'll try it

#

But I think that's way way more difficult than the previous ones

median heath
#

Indeed.

#

Also wayyyy more pointless 😄

rustic patio
#

But more fun

#

I've never done an optimisation problem like that and have no idea how to approach it

median heath
rustic patio
#

I think maybe rewriting greenys tool a bit would be the easiest way to get it done

median heath
#

True.

rustic patio
#

I'll take a look at the source code later, I've done a tiny bit in typescript so maybe I can understand it a bit

thorny cedar
#

just give everything a value and compare the values?

median heath
thorny cedar
#

and the values are already there in terms of coupon cost/item

#

and items you need for next item

wind spade
thorny cedar
wind spade
#

"rec" calculation?

thorny cedar
#

ressource

#

mb

#

if lets say item a and b is cheaper to buy to make item c and item d is cheaper to buy item c for instead of just buying item d item a and b is still cheaper to buy item c from and so on and so on

median heath
#

It is true that it should be simpler to solve given there is arbitrary "resource weight" to consider.

wind spade
#

it's the same complexity, you still have multiple recipes and byproducts

median heath
thorny cedar
#

thats what i ment when i said "the product is absolut"

wind spade
#

well, again depends on recipes, weights, etc.

median heath
#

Single resource for all items.

wind spade
#

what if item is not possible to buy?

median heath
#

Then that recipe isn't something you can use.

wind spade
#

not recipe, item

median heath
#

Because the point of the restriction is buyable-only.

median heath
#

Because items are used in recipes.
So where is an item that you need solely by itself that would be a concern here?

wind spade
#

idk, depends on choice of end product

median heath
#

If you can answer the above question, there is wiggle room.
But there isn't a single thing I can think of that would alter the criteria.

wind spade
#

is there no end product that has an ingredient that can't be bought?

median heath
#

Like "Steel Coated Plate" is a recipe that cannot be used, because you cannot acquire Steel Ingots.

#

But you have other Iron Plate options, so you are not blocked.

#

Electrode Circuit Board is out because you cannot buy Coke.

#

You can't buy HOR, but you can buy almost everything HOR makes.
You can't buy Alumina Solution, but you can buy everything it makes.
Etc.

#

So "not buyable item" just means all the recipes attached to that item cannot be used in comparison.
But there is not hard block to progression that I can see.

median heath
#

FMF's have no comparison to be made, because you can't buy Nitrogen. So you just have to bite the base ticket cost for them.

wind spade
#

well you're approaching it from the point of "I have these few cases to analyse", while I approach it as "make tool that can answer any query"

thorny cedar
#

but you dont need any query bcs there is only one best recipi for every item in this case

median heath
#

I mean, "any query" in this context is limited to the list of craftable items.
And since there is only 1 resource (coupons), it is a simplified equation as there is only 1 cost analysis to be done.

thorny cedar
#

the one with the lowest points ones you have that you just need that in a spreadsheet

median heath
wind spade
thorny cedar
median heath
wind spade
#

that's the solver's job to calculate

median heath
#

👍

wind spade
#

but I'm still aproaching it from generic point of "insert dataset and query and get result"

median heath
#

Interested to see the result.

wind spade
#

well, I will aproach it that way once I get to it

calm sparrow
#

can someone help me understand turbofuel a little better? i want to make a turbofuel power source at some point (havent gotten to tier 5 and 6 yet but im close) and im curious whats a good size for a fuel generator plant would be

#

ive heard turbofuel is really good and i wanna try ito ut

vapid gorge
#

how much power do yo uwant to end up with?
divide that by the number of fuel gens you need

#

Turbo fuel is more complicated and a lot of people don't think it's needed but can be fun for it's own sake

median heath
#

Ok, so try it for fun if you want to, I will not dissuade that.

But whomever told you it was "really good" is not someone you should take advice from anymore.

calm sparrow
#

idk man

#

like i said i wanna give it a shot

median heath
#

Diluted is far, far more than enough to get you to nuclear.
Turbo's sole practical use in U7 is making bullets.
In U8 you've got bullets and jetpack.

But like I said, if this is just a "I am doing this because I feel like it" build, I am more than happy to answer questions about recipes and setup.

calm sparrow
#

im looking to end up with maybe 4000 mw? idk

vapid gorge
#

if you get the Heavy Oil Residue alt and Packaged Diluted fuel you can get a ton of power w/o having to drag sulfur and coal to you - but it's up to you

I'd also aim for more than 4gW

#

Unless you just want a very modest power station

#

future machines take up a LOT of power

calm sparrow
#

yeah

median heath
calm sparrow
median heath
#

(Which honestly is the smallest "I want to build a fuel power plant" build I think I have ever helped with)

#

4 GW is like... Coal Power numbers.

prisma kraken
#

usually for turbofuel, you want to think about how much sulfur you're going to use for it

median heath
#

Diluted Fuel recipe alone allows you to convert 600 Oil -> 20 GW

#

Turbo pushes that even further.

calm sparrow
#

no need to get condescending here man, i have zero reference for the scale of things in late game since ive never made it that far

#

but thank you for the numbers, and ill check out the diluted fuel stuff

prisma kraken
#

yeah, turbofuel yields a bit more power than regular fuel/oil

median heath
#

I'm just speaking objectively, nothing is coming at you personally so please don't interpret it that way.

median heath
calm sparrow
#

i said 4k as just an easy reference point since im close to that anyways with coal rn

calm sparrow
vapid gorge
#

If you don't want to have to build a second fuel plant later 10-20gW will get you further along.

prisma kraken
#

usually for a fuel or turbofuel plant, you want to think about how many oil nodes and (for turbofuel, sulfur nodes) you want to use

median heath
prisma kraken
#

for regular fuel, sizing it for 300 or 600 oil/min is pretty common

calm sparrow
prisma kraken
#

for turbofuel, i find it more useful to size it based on 300 or 600 sulfur/min

calm sparrow
#

i believe i found a decent amount of pure oil nodes along there but i dont remember exactly

median heath
calm sparrow
#

last time i played i started in the grasslands and didnt really expand much since i was solo

median heath
#

Solo is de wae ❤️

#

It's feasible to bring both sulfur nodes from the DD over there if you want to legit never worry about power.
Simple train will handle that.
But it will be your limiting factor in this build.

calm sparrow
calm sparrow
vapid gorge
#

play around with things, you'll figure out how you like to do logistics

calm sparrow
#

im planning too far ahead i think

median heath
#

But planning ahead is fine.

prisma kraken
#

that distance from the DD sulfur is very inconvenient for a truck to transport stuff

calm sparrow
#

k well ill check out diluted fuel

#

thanks all 👍

prisma kraken
#

you can always retrofit a dilluted fuel plant later for TF

median heath
# calm sparrow k well ill check out diluted fuel

Diluted is the simple math of just 300 Oil (normal node) = 10 GW

If you port both Sulfur nodes over there when you hit T7-8 and have access to the mk3 miner, your max Turbofuel output is 103.5 GW costing 1552.5 Sulfur, 2328.75 Oil

For 700 more oil, you get the same output without having to leg the sulfur at all or do any more complexity just by Diluted

prisma kraken
#

where TF is useful is to extend your pre-nuclear late game building so that you aren't ad-hoc setting up half-assed factories just to supply nuclear with

#

there's 3 TF recipes, of which 2 are useful for power, the 3rd i think is only useful for rifle ammo (which misses more than it hits), default tf gets you a slightly larger yield for the same oil by mixing the fuel you're making with compacted coal, blended tf is meant to be made as a 900 oil+600 sulfur build to yield 40 gw

wind spade
#

oh nvm discord didn't scroll... I guess it was already mentioned 😄

prisma kraken
#

yeah, tf isn't the grail with power, i agree

#

if you're trying to stay ahead of your power demand and want to keep deferring nuclear for a while (or never build it), TF is a great way to add several 10's of gw to your grid with a single build

#

a lot of it depends on your play style though

#

i've 'won' the game with less than 30 gw of power before, and i've built 100's of gw of power out, and it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish

#

for me, in my current save, i'm building pretty big, and rather than make small factories for just what i need, i'm building big ones that harness regions of the map as i work through my plan, and just chewing through power in doing so... I'll eventually end up at nuclear, but atm, i have 40 gw of tf power, another 10-15 of fuel power, 12 gw of coal and whatever geotherm is giving me, and debating whether to do another 40 gw of tf or just rush to nuclear

frosty owl
#

Personally, I found Turbo quite nice in my last playthrough. Rather than using another full oil node for power (I wanted to save it for future plubber), I just increased the compacted coal production I had there for Fine Black Powder and upgraded my powerplant to Turbofuel. I found it a neat solution given my situation

terse swift
eager escarp
#

How much turbofuel should I aim to be producing? Like what's a reasonable power grid capacity that can last me into endgame?

worn cove
#

Depends on your game style. For some people 2/5GW was enough to beat the game. Some people go for 100GW plants because why not 😅

#

And the thing is that people that go for 100GW plants use up a lot of that power, people that go for 2/5GW use less way power with their builds and they need less.
The best amount would be the one you think will be enough for your projects

tidal shuttle
#

Assuming one particle accelerator, turning off some factories on the grid, and some power storage….you could get by..

worn cove
#

You could even finish the game with one coal gen and batteries lul But it would take a while for the batteries to charge up.

oblique hollow
#

just work with the average consumption of an accelerator or consider underclocking if you truly are limited by power

tidal shuttle
#

You could finish it with biomass and batteries but you might not be done before 1.0

worn cove
#

I didn't say biomass burner because I have no idea if those actually charge batteries

#

Those are the last gens that actually control their burn rate depending on the usage on the power grid

tidal shuttle
#

I’m about to build my first PA this weekend. I just might power it with biomass and batteries now. 💀

oblique hollow
#

biomass and batteries? lmao you poor soul, that doenst even work to begin with xd

#

Biomass cant charge power storages

ruby relic
oblique hollow
#

cause they dont produce excess power

ruby relic
#

Oh

oblique hollow
#

storages work with excess

#

biomass self-regulates

#

thus no excess

ruby relic
#

So sad

oblique hollow
#

at minimum you need coal gens

#

geothermal could work too

tidal shuttle
#

Thanks for saving me from myself!

median heath
true junco
#

Oh man... "hand crafted power" and somebody will actually AFK that for hours every day. 😆

median heath
true junco
#

I almost think they need to nerf hand crafting. Some people still dont seam to understand you arent supposed to rely on it all the time. Lol.

median heath
#

Things beyond the basic items you make during Hub0 could just take longer to make.

delicate chasm
#

I think it'd be more cruel to allow the hand crank to be AFKable but continuous. If you could time it, you could set up a bunch of stuff around you and AutoHotkey macro the cranking for SUPER cheesing.

deft lichen
#

the U4 spacebar buff isn't really a buff as it just replaced the toothpick stuck between alt and space

oblique hollow
#

make it progressively slower, kinda like you are fatigued jace_smile

deft lichen
#

if it gets warm, it will get a chance to manufacture faulty parts

#

ingredients consumed, no output

vapid gorge
median heath
#

Remember when it used to get brighter the longer you held it?

vapid gorge
#

you mean it doesn't anymore?

median heath
#

Not even close to the same degree.

vapid gorge
#

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo....

median heath
#

Like the way it did before, you legit thought it exploding was a possibility.

vapid gorge
#

Yeah I loved that. I think I once stuffed my inventory as much as I could of one item to make like a million screws just to see if they'd left something like that as an easter egg

#

I doubted it .. but you never know

young terrace
#

I have an output of 2 times 5 reinforced plates (2 assemblers). I need to split this into 3-3-1.5
What would be the best way to accomplish this

vapid gorge
#

even if the feed isn't even at teh start it will self balanceif you're feeding teh right numbers in over time

young terrace
#

basically its like this

vapid gorge
#

doesn't change the solution I provided

#

you're overfeeding it too so it'll fill up faster

young terrace
#

Well.. im trying to avoid overfeeding, thats why i need exactly 3/min

vapid gorge
#

Well you're makign 10 per min and your machines will only consume 7.5 pm

thorny cedar
#

they will overfeed

vapid gorge
#

so no mater what it's overfed

young terrace
#

No way i did my math wrong hold on let me look at the whole schematic

vapid gorge
young terrace
#

Forgot: one is underclocked to 50%

thorny cedar
#

"i have 2 ass doing 5 per min each i want to split it in 3-3 and 1.5"

vapid gorge
#

The two main ways of feeding Items - Overflow Manifold (or just Manifold) and Load balancing

both are 100% efficient. Manifolds just takes a while to balance but is much faster simpler flexible
Load balancers are also 100% but take up more space and thought and time - as well you can't just upgrade them to modify them like you can with Manifolds, you have to rip them up and start over

#

So merge the two RIP onto 1 belt, then feed them into the machines on 1 belt

#

and you get a perfectly efficient manifold

thorny cedar
#

otherwise its a 2/5-2/5-1/5 split

vapid gorge
#

easier to clock each assembler to need 2.5 RIP and feed them that way

#

but yeah simplest solution is to use one belt @young terrace

young terrace
vapid gorge
#

yup!
and then split it into 3. Over time the machines that are getting too many parts will back up and an even amount will flow to all the machines.

There's almost infinite ways you can solve this - this is just simple and straight forward

young terrace
#

Oh you mean the machine (here assember #3) will backup up to the splitter, and then everything will perfectly fall in its place

#

big if true

thorny cedar
#

as long as your machines are clocked right and work at 100% it is true otherwise you invented a new type of math where 3+3+1.5 is not 7.5 😄

wind spade
young terrace
#

then they all will have 100%

#

testing it now btw

wind spade
#

aka just merge both and then do a manifold

|  |
M--M
|
V
|
S--S--S
|  |  |
young terrace
#

Yep

#

And this method is called manifold?

wind spade
#

manifold is

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
#

without caring about "equal" splits

#

because it will work no matter what

#

as long as your belts are fast enough ofc

thorny cedar
young terrace
#

I see...

#

this is genius!

thorny cedar
#

well

#

at one point addition and substraction was genius yea hehe

young terrace
#

😤

thorny cedar
#

the balance mathod in your case would be 2/5-2/5-1/5 so you splt the belt in 5 merge 2 2 and 1 tho

thorny cedar
#

the drone math for bats/min in a table is my math wrong?

#

bcs 8-15 batteries per single drone is a bit ugh

torpid yoke
#

i need to do this, can i just manifold it and it will balance by itself?

image.png
#

iron ore i mean

#

not the coal

weak bear
#

PLZ HELP MEE

thorny cedar
#

yes

weak bear
#

GIFT A SATISFACTORY KEY FOR MEEE

#

PLZ

median heath
#

No.

thorny cedar
#

no begging server rules

median heath
#

I always forget how ridiculously expensive this game is...

#

🙃

thorny cedar
#

based on first impression it was prob young and prob got no own money

vapid gorge
prisma kraken
#

something i just realized... you get more range out of a vehicle with coke instead of coal as fuel due to it stacking in 200

true junco
#

Tony Montana has entered the chat.

sharp lion
frosty owl
#

Practically speaking, I've yet to encounter an instance where not accounting for the truncation brought noticeable issue.
Eg: even in that example it would be hard to notice the fuel piling up as it would be just 1 meter of piled up fluid for every generator for every 400+ hours of uninterrupted 100% efficient fuel production and consumption. Given that pipes hold a minimum of ~3 meters of fluid per segment (shorter case scenario), even NOTICING the pile up during testing would be quite hard...

#

This to say that I'm becoming inclined to not mention the "be wary of the precision limit" thing at all, as I haven't found scenarios in which not knowing it might cause actual issues

vapid gorge
median heath
#

For people who see things in degrees, it most likely doesn't matter to them at all.
And I also clarify when explaining 45-81 that it is just how I like to do things and that NOT doing things that way will not fuck up anything in any reasonable timeframe given just how many in-game hours it would take for the issue to compound enough to do anything.

deft lichen
#

even if you disregard whether precision errors matter or not, 45-81 is still useful for yielding pretty numbers

median heath
prisma kraken
#

Since I've seen a lot of people asking about it lately, I drew up the numbers on fuel & turbofuel:

image.png
#

no real point except to give a comparison in a table for people

true junco
#

Ill toss mine up too i guess... 😆

image-31.png image-40.png
oblique hollow
#

and heres my quite old math jace_smile

image.png
thorny cedar
prisma kraken
#

I just thought it would be useful to have the numbers as per-300-oil tallies for comparison, since that is probably the module size you'd be looking to build

summer sage
#

having a brain fart... with liquid .. should I be looking at the meters squared or per minute in terms of amount of production

prisma kraken
#

meters cubed, lol

summer sage
#

SEE

#

Ima mess

prisma kraken
#

its the same as with other production machines, gives you amount per cycle, and per minute values

#

per minute = amt per cycle * 1/cycle time

oblique hollow
#

if you make 4 m³ of liquid every 20 seconds, how many m³ do you make per minute?

mystic moon
#

||12||

#

Difficult math, that

true junco
thorny cedar
prisma kraken
#

understood, the numbers say the same stuff, i just think more in terms of the factory i'm going to build and what's needed as input and what'll be the output

summer sage
#

im doing fuel ..

#

residual fuel recipe

prisma kraken
#

since oil is most easily grouped into 300, i figured that makes sense to look at

oblique hollow
prisma kraken
#

i didn't bother with the less efficient fuel recipes, like residual fuel

#

hint: that's 10 cycles/min

thorny cedar
summer sage
#

Does the pipe mk make a difference. I am on Mk 2

oblique hollow
#

makes no difference

summer sage
#

ty

oblique hollow
#

if you use a mk 2 belt to transport 60/min iron plates, does that make a difference?

#

what about mk 3 belt?

prisma kraken
thorny cedar
#

i think

prisma kraken
#

they have to pick some sort of standard

oblique hollow
#

one machine producing at default rate?

prisma kraken
#

60/min seems good

oblique hollow
#

60/min HMF is unimaginable

prisma kraken
#

not really

thorny cedar
#

i managed to imagin 200 hmfs per minute

oblique hollow
#

do it then yes

prisma kraken
#

i'm making 45/min in a single factory with 570 additional mf's

#

big build.

#

i could have easily traded some of the additional mf's for more hmf's

#

but in doing so, that would mean i'd need to ship rubber and plastic into the other hmf factories rather than mf's

thorny cedar
#

finished the dune desert

#

all thats left there is some nuc pasta and nitrit acid in the north

prisma kraken
#

i still need to build the rest of the 180 hmf i need, but the hard part is done

#

now its just making pipe and concrete wherever i can 🙂

thorny cedar
#

i did 1 build doing mfs 1 build for indu beams and the hmf build in the south

delicate chasm
thorny cedar
#

i still need to do some deco tho

prisma kraken
#

what drives me bonkers is that you need 1590 pipe for 45 hmf's - 2 pure nodes for solid steel = 1560 pipe 😦

thorny cedar
#

you can get rid of all the manifolds that ways and can make it more compact

prisma kraken
#

i sushi it up for that

thorny cedar
prisma kraken
#

it isn't the belt speeds that gets me, its the 30 extra coal & iron than aren't available from 2 pure nodes 😛

thorny cedar
#

and of course everything is overclockt as much as possible

oblique hollow
prisma kraken
#

ehh, i solve it by just making extra pipe elsewhere, but its a pain having to do that

thorny cedar
#

yes thats why i avoided it :c

delicate chasm
#

? Wait, why can you not make over 100 HMF from 2 pure iron nodes?

prisma kraken
#

like there's usually a little pipe leftover from motors

delicate chasm
#

Did I miss that it was specifically HEF/HMF recipe and not flexible?

thorny cedar
#

i need pipe for eindus and hmfs anyways if i decentraliced them i would do it for all of them

prisma kraken
#

HEF

thorny cedar
#

but that would be a pain aswell in terms of logistic

prisma kraken
#

i haven't run the numbers on flex frame

#

iirc, that doesn't save you a lot

delicate chasm
#

If willing to use oil in the build you can still get at least 95ish from HEF.

#

Flexible does push 2 nodes over 100 heavy frames/minute though I recall and the other 2 don't quite.

#

The big game changer is the coated plate and adhered plate.

#

But then you get more of the numbers not being pretty, until you do some other stuff...taking out the adhered plate.

#

Then it just feels like you're almost saving yourself some trouble and then going to a great deal more of it instead. :P

prisma kraken
#

ok, just playing with the flex frame recipe a little, you get this for steel screw:

image.png
#

this for screw+steel rod:

image.png
oblique hollow
#

so barely worth the effort

delicate chasm
#

That makes me feel better.

I, too, am someone who understands steel rod into regular screw but looks it in the eye while building steel screw instead.

I maintain eye contact with steel rod + default screw while I cable up my new constructor and hand feed it a stack of beams.

Steel rod + default screw is silent as I do these things, knowing that nothing it says can stop me now.

prisma kraken
#

normalizing that for comparison with HEF,

image.png
thorny cedar
#

thats what i did

image.png image.png image.png
#

mod frames indu beams and hmfs

prisma kraken
#

what you need to look at though is the cost of 18.75 mf's vs 10 mf/min

oblique hollow
#

why 18.75

prisma kraken
#

that's what flex frame needs

thorny cedar
#

flex frames 3.75 compaired to hefs

prisma kraken
#

the savings of hec are really in the reduced mf number

thorny cedar
#

the same ammount of flex frames per minute need 87.5% more mod frames

prisma kraken
#

and really MF's are the hard part of HMF's

#

there's no easy MF recipe unless you want to burn steel

delicate chasm
#

Yeah, kind of true. RIP isn't by any means difficult to lay out or takes up much space but it's big enough to be a factory of its own, and that's one corner of your HMF factory so it feels artificially big and complex by the time you've finished just the MFs.
(To some ways of thinking, this isn't artificial)

thorny cedar
#

its just presonal preferance

delicate chasm
#

Another layer of consideration here is that if you are doing additional savings on resources with oil, this is the part of the factory in which that happens.

thorny cedar
#

oil was pretty far away in the dune desert there are only a few wells south west or north west in the coast

prisma kraken
#

there's a lot of different recipe chains you can follow between the rip, mf and screw recipes

#

all of them kind of suck 😛

delicate chasm
#

Stitched plate is not happy with you right now.

thorny cedar
#

so i just worked with what i had available and made (hopefully) the best choise for my circumstance

prisma kraken
#

stitched plate is a great recipe in the game, but i don't want to use it for mass mf's

thorny cedar
#

thats why i use iron wire

#

you just need iron

#

and steel for hmfs and plates

prisma kraken
#

takes so much iron away from steel and isn't very dense

thorny cedar
delicate chasm
#

That's fair honestly, I also wouldn't want to do a large scale adhered plate RIP line despite how nice it is to still have iron available after making 0.1RIP/min.

thorny cedar
#

so only a manifold of iron into iron plates and iron wire

prisma kraken
#

i mean, sure

#

the way i did mf's in my current playthrough is steel coated plate+adhered plate+steel rod+default mf

delicate chasm
#

Steel coated is the slower but resource efficient coated plate alt?

prisma kraken
#

yeah, 45 vs 90, they're both good

#

but that combo resolves to this:

image.png
delicate chasm
#

My way of thinking robs me of that possibility. I don't mind making a factory that large, but I do mind the machines being slow and that being why it's large.

I'd have to minimally 200% shard the whole build if I replicated it.

prisma kraken
#

which are just nice numbers

delicate chasm
#

They ARE nice. SnuttsGood

thorny cedar
#

under the line it is way more complex to set up aswell

#

and that can be frustrating aswell

prisma kraken
#

yeah, building that all, i don't think i ever want to do again

thorny cedar
#

in large scale tho 😄

delicate chasm
#

Maybe this'll be my next therapy build. I'll do it at 50% clock speed and really just rub my own nose in my own disdain, see if that cures me.

prisma kraken
#

what i find actually a pretty nice middle ground way of doing mf's is a hybrid chain, it is much smaller

delicate chasm
#

"But do I really want to use my resources badly?"
and
"But do I really want to put forth that much effort?"

are both questions that stop me from enjoying the game sometimes and I want to address that and solve it.

#

I'm okay with effort but dislike my own artistic tendencies so I bury my head in the math and function of the factory most of the time.

true junco
thorny cedar
#

if you dont calc for any max build of smth just dont if you dont want

#

its still a sandbox and up to you to do what you want

prisma kraken
#

I like this combo of recipes, it is not as efficient

image.png
delicate chasm
#

I was looking at motors in the southern GF using that pure caterium to help make wire.

delicate chasm
thorny cedar
#

thats my motor factory

image.png
prisma kraken
#

bolted plate+bolted frame together require 390 screws

wind spade
#

I've read "GF" as girlfriend and was confused why you have a southern girlfriend

true junco
#

I do global max calcs just to see what is possible and getting a vague idea how efficient different paths are. Ultimately i do local max calcs for different areas to see where i will be most effective with different builds. But ultimately ive been building around BP modules.

true junco
thorny cedar
prisma kraken
#

yeah, steel screw eats ingots though

#

for the density though, it can be worthwhile

thorny cedar
#

motors is the only build i use screws at all

true junco
#

Not much. Steel screw isnt much less efficient than steel rod to default screws. And its WAY easier to build imo.

thorny cedar
#

and i set it up as direct feed aswell manifolding iron ingots and coal into the system

delicate chasm
#

I'll be honest, I NEVER use steel rod to make screws after the very beginning of the game. It's more useful to me to make the actual rods themselves for inventory or to provide rods for the MFs as moonchild pointed out earlier.

thorny cedar
#

and call it a day

#

sure you can do it with steel screws aswell

#

but need more coal

prisma kraken
#

this is also a pretty good alternative:

image.png
thorny cedar
delicate chasm
#

Another thing I dislike is mixing production chains to maximize outputs. 🤔 It's a sensibility thing too, not a logistics quandry.

prisma kraken
#

circling back to the original discussion on HMF's, at least a 3rd of the iron (and possibly coal) needed for them is going to be eaten with MF production

thorny cedar
delicate chasm
#

I've mixed coke steel with solid and solid with compacted before to just increase ingots available for simple steel factories (EIB, beams, pipes themselves) but have only automated HMF at scale once. Single stack in DD.

thorny cedar
#

nvm

prisma kraken
#

tbh, i think in a reasonably built world, something like 15 hmf's/min is a good tally

delicate chasm
#

Usually I find a pair of HEF manufacturers is more than enough to get me through whatever I'm going through. If I were better organized maybe I wouldn't travel around as much and they would not be fast enough to keep up with me, but I have a lot of areas in which I suffer in efficiency while playing. Not just planning.

prisma kraken
#

yeah, i've found in previous saves that i've won, that getting into double-digits with hmf's is a pretty good spot to be in

#

so when we're talking 45-90-135-180, we're talking exceptionally large builds

delicate chasm
#

I've saved HMF automation this time around for FMF. I'll slide a few HMF off to the side of the FMF production line for building materials and call it done.

prisma kraken
#

i built with the heat-fused alt for them, that recipe is a fricking pain in the butt

#

every one of the 4 ingredients needs a non-trivial factory

delicate chasm
#

Gonna do that at the coal lake area; I'm rerouting one coal node to work with the sulfur to the east and using the other 3 with the iron alloy and limestone locally, then taking that north by northwest to the nitrogen well.

The aluminum is the normal bauxite/coal directly north of that.

prisma kraken
#

yeah, i used iron glenn along with the lake forest oil and coal lake coal & sulfur

thorny cedar
prisma kraken
#

it is a lot more efficient, but it is painful to make

delicate chasm
#

Nice. Despite my first save being in NF and several more after that on meta bluff, I haven't committed to any really good builds in my favorite biome. =(

thorny cedar
#

thats the setup + snails

#

this is happening in the red forest :3

prisma kraken
#

i did mine at crater lakes:

image.png
thorny cedar
#

all the ship ins are shiped with train the silica is on a sep line 2 trains from 2 sides :3

#

all the raw materials are there

prisma kraken
#

yeah, its just getting copper and possibly caterium in

#

the caterium for me was just for fused wire

thorny cedar
#

rcus are build elsewhere

prisma kraken
#

i haven't gotten to rcu's yet, my pathetic box factory has been a constant 'feed it when i resupply' sorta thing, lol

thorny cedar
#

most of my caterium is processed on sight with water to ingots

#

bcs its no difference in shipping volume as mentioned

prisma kraken
#

i'm working on that stuff now, tackling oscillators on the NF bluff atm

#

its not going to be a massive build... 90 oscillators & ~70 hsc's, but its enough to supply what i need for rigour motor and probably a uranium 300 build

#

i'm still a bit undecided about the nuclear build

#

atm, i'm practically out of power though

thorny cedar
#

the total ammount of cos for me 21.38 and im glad about that

prisma kraken
#

cos?

thorny cedar
#

COs

prisma kraken
#

i'm working on the AI limiter bp atm

thorny cedar
#

already done building them

prisma kraken
thorny cedar
#

used for the motors for ECRs

#

and other stuff

prisma kraken
#

i can't wait to get the xl bp mod on u8 again, it just saves so much horses*** with creating mirror bp's

thorny cedar
#

i dont build refs in bps

#

so far all of them are manually placed and hooked up 😄

image.png
#

i just realized thats almost one ref per hour + all the other stuff i build im not that lazy after all 😮

thorny cedar
# prisma kraken

but yea for ai limiters i made a bps just direct feeding the fused quickwire ass into the ai limiter ass

#

compact for multifloor

#

and fed the rest into it

#

dont blame the designer for your "goals"

prisma kraken
#

4.5/min for AIL's is a really nice number for ocillators

#

1 AIL = 1 oscillator, and i'm making 90/min

#

well in this factory, i'll eventually need 4-5x that

#

this factory just will make enough for motors and some seedling of rcu's and UFR's i need

median heath
#

Randomly noticed oddity while updating my sheet:

Automated Wiring is the only Assembler recipe that takes Cable as an input.

thorny cedar
#

making space parts hehe

prisma kraken
#

the max pfr recipe chain might be the ugliest instance of repeating decimals in the game, only whole numbers in it are 2100 uranium and 2100 sulfur:

image.png
grand talon
median heath
#

Guarantee you no one else views things this way 😄

thorny cedar
median heath
#

Had to completely redo the Equipment section as I hadn't touched that since U3.

thorny cedar
#

i just had an idea

#

there is sure a method to produce what you do combined what my google docs does or greenys calc

#

to calc the best possible chain overclock for all the things+the rest even for ppm

median heath
#

You'd have to get a universally agreed upon definition of "best" when it comes to overclocking though.

thorny cedar
#

i would go by with as much direct feeding as possible for the final product as first fix point

#

and see from there

#

and what makes sense like final product clocked to 220 good add 3 asss clocked at 210

#

the ceiling would be 250 max

#

the bottom is as little as possible without 1/3th or roundup .00

#

it would safe me time bcs currently i run the overclock math manual for every ass line

#

bcs not all machines need to e 250 full

vestal wharf
#

what do you guys think of this?

image.png
median heath
vestal wharf
median heath
#

Personally prefer Crystal Computer for larger setups, but if I need something fast in the realm of 15/min, Cat Comp is a good option.

vestal wharf
#

I made this plan like a few months back but couldn't do it because I was a bit lazy

#

and I made this factory to the east side of the map

image.png
median heath
#

I rarely do multi-output plans like that though.

vestal wharf
#

still gotta finish up the turbofuel part

median heath
#

I also never do Turbofuel plants 😄

#

Diluted is far more than you need to get to nuclear.

vestal wharf
#

I just wanted to have some turbofuel for some stuff

#

and then I was like "hey, why won't I just do computers first?"

#

and then I had this (not) brilliant idea

median heath
vestal wharf
#

Welp, time to go back and calculate how much power I'm gonna get from this cuz I forgot

median heath
vestal wharf
wind spade
vestal wharf
median heath
true junco
median heath
kind cairn
median heath
#

Like once you have access to mk3 belt and mk2 miner, Coal can easily be retrofitted to producing 3 GW, which is more than anything you will draw during T3-4.
Once you hit T5-6, any oil setup you create should be power-positive to your grid.
T7-8, Blenders -> Diluted. 300 Oil = 10 GW, go nuts.
Diluted -> Nuclear -> Continue never thinking about power at all.

delicate chasm
#

You're able to pull 300 coal from each of usually 4 coal nodes at most of the coal power sites, so 1200 coal/min for 80 coal gens at 100%.

If you care to actually do it, it's 6GW and you keep 5.5 of it in areas with enough water surface area to not need overclocking. Which is again, most of the spots I'm talking about if not all.

I feel like the expectation on a new player is more to the tune of 1-2 nodes, and scaling to use an area for a singular purpose is sort of a 'more experienced player' concept. Diversification is usually something games reward you for, so there's a bit of unlearning to do on top of the consideration of travel time between factories being legitimate.

#

I set up initial steel and coal power together, because setting them both up in stages helps both processes go faster (producing frames on-site, remember our inventory is little right now).

Usually even with seriousness of intent on building factories, I don't need more than 3GW before I'm building my initial oil which as Sev points out is power positive unless you're maximizing plastic or rubber (or fabric I guess) for a production line it feeds.

One of my actual issues with Satisfactory is that power just sort of naturally flows forward and isn't something you need to stop for unless you go out of your way to build on a scale that is factors larger than the scale you have already been building on.

#

Decreasing power output on buildings or increasing their build material costs isn't the solution either. Automation is automation and that just adds tedium. Some tweaking to fuel based power production (probably nerfs, I'm sorry to say) probably ARE the answer. They are already massive buildings that scale to very large numbers very quickly - but the fuel is produced in too large quantities to make other power production methods a real head scratcher of a choice.

#

I'd like to say on balance though... end of the day, let's say we fixed it. We turn around and look back on the changes. Is this more fun now?

I honestly don't think the answer would be 'yes'. At most it would be the same amount of fun, I think, if the power production system felt "more balanced" than it currently does.

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Thanks for coming to my AVE Talk. /rant

median heath
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I don't think current power is unbalanced tbh.

wind spade
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otherwise it's just so much fuel gen spam till nuclear

waxen grove
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HELLO

snow dove
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HELLO

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gonna need more details to help ya

waxen grove
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lol

wind spade
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um... first of all, please don't use caps

waxen grove
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1min

wind spade
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second, what do you mean by "make not back up"?

snow dove
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i’m assuming their belts are backing up and they don’t want them to

wind spade
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would help to add some nouns to that sentence

snow dove
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yeah

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nouns, adjectives, definite and indefinite articles for good measure

waxen grove
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how to make fluids not back up

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i forgot to write fluids

wind spade
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use them

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if it's backing up, you're not using enough

waxen grove
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600 fuel /min

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to 50 fuel gen

wind spade
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don't merge into mk2 pipe

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100 fuel gens need 1200 fuel

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do like groups of 10 or something, much easier for flow

waxen grove
wind spade
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also, loop the pipe

waxen grove
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connect ends?

wind spade
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yeah

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well, connect end to beginning

waxen grove
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if i pot a baffer in the ends is that could work?

wind spade
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don't use buffers

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like ever

waxen grove
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ok

prisma kraken
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if you keep the manifolds small (limited to 10-40 generators, the fluids behave much better

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buffers really cause things to behave in strange ways, fluid will keep bouncing around and never stabilize

wind spade
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best case they do nothing
any other case they hurt your system

waxen grove
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thx for the info guys

prisma kraken
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np

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but the 2 pieces of advice are keep your pipe networks small & keep your pipes full

snow dove
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keep pipe networks small, simple, and full

waxen grove
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ok

prisma kraken
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it really isn't hard to break the output of every 2 blenders into its own manifold

delicate chasm
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I have a fuel power setup that looks similar to this but the fuel is made on the floor above, so the two ends of the manifold connect to the floor above's two ends, forming a box.

prisma kraken
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Ave brings up a good point, fluids always sink to the lowest unfull part of a network first, so gravity feeding can greatly help too

delicate chasm
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Since it's prefilled, this works well to keep the flow direction constant toward the middle of the lower floor's manifold, and the fuel being generated is also separated out from any other manifold so it's always just supplying.

Keeping the flow direction stable helps keep flow rates stable, which makes for happy pipes.

prisma kraken
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full pipes are happy pipes

waxen grove
prisma kraken
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too many late night informercials?

delicate chasm
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Are they underclocked or are you actually doing that much DF? 😁

waxen grove
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DF?

prisma kraken
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dilluted fuel

delicate chasm
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Diluted Fuel

waxen grove
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yup

prisma kraken
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i'm still wondering how 80 blenders making 100m^3/min = 1200

delicate chasm
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Oh, okay, I didn't see that post of theirs. So they are underclocked yeah.

waxen grove
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by mistake write 100

waxen grove
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thay full power

prisma kraken
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man, seeing that makes me hurt for the number of resupply trips needed

delicate chasm
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thinking_helmet So you are making 8,000 fuel here?

waxen grove
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3000 oil /min

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90000MW

prisma kraken
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well that's a lot of fuel power, lol

waxen grove
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oh yea

waxen grove
prisma kraken
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you can get 180gw of nuclear off of the nearby uranium node, btw

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(if i'm not mistaken, that looks like the swamp

waxen grove
waxen grove
prisma kraken
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suit yourself... i'd kill myself before building that big of a fuel plant (i hate building fuel)

delicate chasm
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"Ee-ye'ull. In that case, I'm gonna go ahead and officially prescribe ceiling-mounted runner pipes to loop both ends of the generator feed for each generator manifold. 20 fuel generators to a line will only work if you saturate the pipe and get the flow direction stabilized which probably means going down there and switching fuel generators off by hand throughout the whole build. You'd do better in my opinion to just stick to clusters of 10 looped on both ends to the floor above."

waxen grove
prisma kraken
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the thing that i hate is trucking the building supplies back & forth

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its really time-consuming

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(mostly i just hate driving the truck)

delicate chasm
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That's why I do coal power with frames on-site and fuel power with a batching yard to make the building materials on-site.

prisma kraken
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yeah, i'm not going to build a pop up hmf or computer factory though

delicate chasm
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A little mk2 miner slop spaghet, truck station into that last container with the steel stuff, bam. Instant computers and HMF.

prisma kraken
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i'd go as far as motors, but not computers or hmf's

waxen grove
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all the fuel gens is in there

delicate chasm
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I always have caterium at this point and am doing initial rubber anyway so a container full of quickwire or alternatively a few stacks of silica and oscillators brought over from initial quartz pre-oil.

waxen grove
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i do not how to build cool looking factory

prisma kraken
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takes time

delicate chasm
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If you build it big enough, everyone will be too intimidated to say it's not cool.

prisma kraken
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true, that's the tact i'm taking now,just build loads of stuff so people don't notice it looks horrible 😛

waxen grove
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do you guys play alone or with friends?

delicate chasm
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Quantity IS quality in the Pioneer Program. doggoapproved

prisma kraken
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generally alone, but if i find someone i have a good chemistry with, i'd do a world with them

delicate chasm
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This for me is multiplayer Satisfactory right now. It's like we're networking on our HUB terminals across the stars from different celestial bodies but we all have similar goals.

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None are quite the same...but some are quite similar indeed.

wind spade
delicate chasm
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Whoa, you know what Satisfactory is!?

prisma kraken
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no, i just QA test online tools and make spreadsheets 😛

delicate chasm
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In seriousness though, I'm the sort of person who doesn't want to really share the experience while I'm having it. There are a handful of people I think I could play multiplayer with, but for the most part I feel like I'd be wasting bandwidth on most servers because I'm prone to just wandering around or standing in uffish thought.

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I'm more into the speculation and theory than practical application part. I don't tend to build large things when I do build and it's difficult to commit to even minor builds because to me it's pointless to add something that doesn't have any permanence once you've unlocked everything.