math-and-meta

[wind spade]

have you heard of factorio

[amber jacinth]

Just assume Pv = RT for all gasses

[thorn remnant]

ngl they should make the nuclear stuff here run by real physics, so our pc will also explode like a nuclear bomb

[vapid gorge]

btw @median heath says you want the junctions on yours just like the example I showed you. Maybe you can get the BP off him to inspect it?

[true junco]

Even something as straight forward as the Ideal Gas law (the simplest version of an equation of state) applied to the potential infrastructure utilizing the nitrogen available in this game would be a l huge consumer of CPU thruput.

[vapid gorge]

Half assed physics. Not full thankfully

[thorn remnant]

i kinda did this

[vapid gorge]

You can try it - but apparently it's recommend to exactly copy it. Fluids be finicky

Also don't use floor holes

[true junco]

More like they assume P and T are constants. Which is insanely inaccurate. 😆

[median heath]

Is this statement regarding gas or liquids?

[amber jacinth]

better use VDW then

[amber jacinth]

Gas

[thorn remnant]

if u havent noticed my train platform is 8 meters higher then my real platform

[median heath]

I'm assuming someone already said "Always package gas" already?

[vapid gorge]

And I think this was about a moderately slapped together system rather than tightly built

[vapid gorge]

just clip through them - sometimes floor holes get bugged

[true junco]

Lmfao. Anything MORE complex than PV=NkT is never going to happen in any game in our lifetime. 😆

[amber jacinth]

yes. Short trip, low throughput- I would package under any other circumstances.

[median heath]

👍

[vapid gorge]

hell, the universe simulation only does that when we look at it 😛

[median heath]

Liquids you need the buffer though.

[amber jacinth]

🫡

[true junco]

PV=NkT really only applies accurately to Nobel gases at low pressures... tho oddly enough it can be derived from extrapolating the interactions of basic particles (bosons and/or fermions) as you account for the interactions between all of them statistically.

...Yeah. Statistical Mechanics of Thermodynamics was one of those funny Physics classes where you start with some fundamental first principles and the prof casually derives the foundation of an entire field of science or engineering on the way to some other point. 😆

[median heath]

Pioneer's Vodka = Not kurrently Taken

[thorn remnant]

ig this can work right

i hope

[median heath]

What does the either side look like?

[thorn remnant]

other side

[median heath]

I have doubts.

[wind spade]

you can also have the junctions vertically to save even a bit more space

[median heath]

Also to make them work properly.

[thorn remnant]

how tho i tried everything😭

[wind spade]

is there such a bit difference? 🤔 logically there shouldn't be much if at all

[median heath]

Coming in from the side is treated differently than from the top/bottom.

[median heath]

Say this beam is where you want your junction to be aligned.

Build this: (or using the shorter ones)

Then delete the one on the left, snap the junction to the end.

Rotate to desired angle.

Perfect alignment every time.

[wind spade]

differently enough to make a difference in that case?

[median heath]

Why would I risk it?

[wind spade]

not about risking, I'm just asking whether or not it has been tested to have a different effect

to be sure for future cases where I'm suggesting this build

[median heath]

I want to say yes, but I cannot definitively back up said yes.

[thorn remnant]

oohh

[wind spade]

I'm just interested how much it differs in practical use-case 🤷‍♂️ so I assume there haven't been any research on it yet from your side

[median heath]

VIPs don't work with side injection, and given this is supposed to be a VIP/VOP junction, I want to say no - it doesn't work.

[wind spade]

I think the design together with the whole loop and pump and stuff differs enough from VIP/VOP to not be so sure about it working the same 🤔 but again - not here to argue, I'd just like to know some tests results to be 100% sure

[median heath]

The one I designed is a VIP/VOP and those are the principles it works on.

[vapid gorge]

I'd be curious too - though the value of doing it might be low considering there might be enough small changes before 1.0 to throw it out the window

[thorn remnant]

this will work then right

[vapid gorge]

that might still fall under 'maybe' since you don't have junctions here?

[median heath]

The clipping
AVERT YOUR EYES CHILDREN

THE CLIPPING

😭

[thorn remnant]

aint nobody seeing that

shht

[wind spade]

oh thE CLIPPING

[mystic moon]

Yeah that hurts

[vapid gorge]

@thorn remnant lets talk about it here

[thorn remnant]

il show you

[vapid gorge]

is that going into or out of?

[thorn remnant]

out

but ig it wont work

[vapid gorge]

I mean, it can work, I just wouldn't do it. I'd just process each pipe on it's own and then merge what you want after the next step

[thorn remnant]

cause a pipe can only hold 600 right

[vapid gorge]

yeah but at no point would any of those sections have more than 600

[thorn remnant]

and the total is like 720

left one has 480, right one 240

[vapid gorge]

The main issue is possible sloshing and back flow especially coming directly out of the train station

if you were wanting an even amount of oil coming out of each of those I'd split it up where it's being sent from

[thorn remnant]

ig i want in each pipe 360

[vapid gorge]

are they being processed into the same thing?

[thorn remnant]

each pipe powering 12 refinerys

this is eventally what it gets fed into

[vapid gorge]

You could just do 2 rows of 12 and have 1 pipe feed 16 and 1 pipe feed 8.
Keeps it simpler

[vapid gorge]

You're probably going to have issues with the oil manifolds not being looped there

plus you're feeding from below

[thorn remnant]

yes yes but the uplift is big enough

[vapid gorge]

doesn't matter, you'll get sloshing from the lack of loop and stuttering and feeding from below makes it a bit wonky

[thorn remnant]

i knoww but i want something eye pleasing😭 😭

[vapid gorge]

because feeding from below looks better?

[thorn remnant]

personally yes

[vapid gorge]

Use this

[thorn remnant]

wowow

ohhh so it bassicly loops the oil

[vapid gorge]

I almost always feed from below too, this incorperates the loop and manages to overcome issues with bottom feeding

Now I don't recommend people feed from below, but you do have options if you really really want to

You still want to flood all the machines and the loop before turning the last machine on though

[thorn remnant]

bassicly like this

[vapid gorge]

I'd feed the top pipe just to be safe, but if you flood it properly feeding the lower one should be ok

[thorn remnant]

ah i see

[vapid gorge]

and be careful with those floor holes, if you see some machines starving you might have a buggy connection

[thorn remnant]

oh so

they just dont feed properly

[vapid gorge]

I think sometimes floor holes kill head lift, so you just wont get flow, It'll be pretty obvious when that happens though

[thorn remnant]

or do they not feed at all

ahh, ig it will be obvious yes

[vapid gorge]

you can just rebuild them and it usually works, but I can't be bothered having that happen so I just clip the pipe through the floor hole and still get the look of it

plus clipping it through instead of using them means fewer world objects

[thorn remnant]

yes but floor holes and those things help me see structure

im prolly on the spectrum istg

[vapid gorge]

xD
wdym 'see structure'?

[thorn remnant]

alot of things are chaotic

those hole thingys help me see where each machine is and how i can do my underflooring

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah that's fair, but you can keep the holes there and when you connect from the junction to the machine? skip the hole, go straight to the machine

it's fine using it as a marker

[thorn remnant]

il see

maybe il change

if im in the mood

[vapid gorge]

like it's fine to use floor holes - this is just my suggestion to avoid potential buggy holes you might need to fix in the future.

Not some mandatory procedure

[thorn remnant]

yes yes ofc

my nr 1 priority rn is sleep. its 4.42 am and im doing math here

[vapid gorge]

It's also possible to build pipe systems w/o manifold loops - but it's more restrictive. The loop and feed systems I suggest work in any situation

go, sleep your brain

[thorn remnant]

my brain is alr asleep, thats why i cant think properly

[prisma kraken]

hey, i just spent an hour trying to figure out why a merger was backing up when the math seemed to say that i was still under belt capacity

turns out i had 8 constructors set to make pipes instead of beams

to be fair, i c&p'd the pipe recipe for 8 constructors per side of a manifold instead of 8 total

that was an error that just took forever to see what was right in front of me

[eager escarp]

Wait how can you tell if a lift lines up with the input of something correctly? If the input indicator disappears when you're building something it means that it's properly aligned right?

[thorny cedar]

can u attach belt to the lift.. if answer is no its good

[eager escarp]

How do ya'll usually scale up production? Like idk if I should tear down my iron facility and rebuild it in order to accommodate the shift from mk1 to mk2 miners, overclock everything or build another floor on top that mirrors the bottom

[wind spade]

not scaling at all
each factory builds it's own intermediates

[eager escarp]

So like I should have a full delicated iron facility near my steel production that is only used to supply rotors and modular frames, separate from my original facility?

[vapid gorge]

if I'm just going up the tiers? I leave space to the side to have more smelters and constructors. And build in floors so it's easier to do.

[wind spade]

with the approach I'm using, every time want new product, I calculate it's production down to raw resources and then build the factory near nodes that can supply it.

no rebuilding ever needed

obviously it's just one way to play, but you asked about how we do it, so here you have it 🙂

[eager escarp]

the issue rn is that my steel production runs off the coal and two iron nodes to the left, while my iron production runs off the 4 on the right, however when building the steel facility I didnt account for the need of rotors or modular frames

[vapid gorge]

depends on your style - greeny's style is 'build a whole factory dedicated for each thing'

me? I just smash lines of parts together and they eventually fill up storage

at least while I'm unlocking stuff. I do dedicated factories later

[wind spade]

that's the problem my approach is trying to avoid
if you start from nodes, you'll have too much or too little
if you start from end product, you know exactly how much you want

[vapid gorge]

It's a good approach - I've always just felt it's not as noobie friendly.

[true junco]

In my opinion: the easiest way to "scale up" is to prepare to do so ahead of time by doing one simple thing.

Make sure you put a splitter(personally i preffer a smart for this) between any miner you build and what ever you set up first for it via only 1 splitter output. Then when you gain the ability to push more out of that miner (by upgrading its mark, overclocking, better belts, or combination of them) you can upgrade/OC the miner and upgrade the belt between the miner and the smart splitter. Then you can belt off the splitter leaving the old factory intact and functional, and you just have the new capacity of the miner minus the old factory consumption to build something new off of it.

So. Old factory stays and continues to work without issue, and you havent prevented yourself from using new capacity.

[wind spade]

that's what happens in my way as well, since you usually don't use miner fully, you have some leftover (or you'll upgrade the miner eventually)

[wind spade]

imo it's the opposite - while it at first sounds weird, it automatically evades most issues you can have as a new player

and pushes you towards the "recommended" gameplay of outposting

[vapid gorge]

I know a lot of kids who'd get overwhelmed by learning all of the things + trying to make perfect things right off the bat.

I definitely know kids who would swim through it like water too though

Since I don't know everyone here and how they are I tend to take the basic approach unless they seem like they are beyond it

[true junco]

Using a smart also lets you just switch the old to "overflow" when you start the new factory if you plan to fully obsolesce the old one. Itll stay functional until the new one is fully online and the takes over the supply and the old one starves itself out. Then you can tear it down or just leave it inoperable (at that point i would cut the power to it so it isnt pulling idle consumption.

[wind spade]

from my observation, most of the issues come from "I've built something I didn't need yet" and it results in one of the classic "I have that but it's not enough" / "what do I do with that?" / "how do I split X from Y", etc.

all of those are not a thing in my approach

but again, it's just one way to play 🙂

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah def, depends on the person a lot. A lot of people don't like the idea of letting it all buffer back and not caring about numbers early on

[median heath]

Wait, you play the game?

[wind spade]

"my approach how to play the game" doesn't necessarily say I play the game

tho I'd say I probably know a decent amount of info about the game even if I didn't play it much

[eager escarp]

should I be satisfied with that? Im currently bottlenecked by the T3 belt only being able to get 270 coal per min from my miners

Im hoping that it would be able to last me through T5-6 at least

[wind spade]

screws are probably not needed, given they are not really used in anything

[vapid gorge]

and there's a lot of good alts that change things up drastically. You can fairly easily cut out iron rods and screws entirely from your world. Other than building some things by hand

[prisma kraken]

also, use of alt recipes allows scaling a lot better, example: all basic iron goods can be made with alt recipes that take steel ingots and have much higher yield

[mystic moon]

Steel screws my beloved

[prisma kraken]

i don't have a 'basic iron' factory in my world, lol

[prisma kraken]

t5&6 (phase 3) is a bit odd in that there's not a lot of extra production you really need to make; just getting some computers & hmf's cooking is all you really need to progress (i.e. there's not a lot of necessary factory to build), it really is the stage for me where i do a lot of optional research, start getting rails laid and try to be as power-efficient as possible in preparation for having the blenders for dilluted fuel power

the other thing that you can do in phase 3 is get a forever motor factory going since mk4 belts are sufficient for doing so and the rigour motor alt, oscillators (and manufacturer) are unlocked

its a weird spot in the game because mk4 belts are the first where you're able to start pushing enough out of miners to do end-game builds and you need to make some choices about whether to settle for getting 480/min from nodes with factories or to defer the big builds until you have mk5 belts & mk3 miners

my general taste is to defer the big builds until i have all of the t7 toys, but that isn't how i'd recommend someone doing things on their first playthrough 🙂

[prisma kraken]

if only it were more steel efficient

[mystic moon]

It's still so much better than the default that I don't mind

And steel rod -> screw isn't a large enough improvement for me to default to it

[prisma kraken]

i know

[mystic moon]

I tend to use pure iron -> solid steel -> steel screw if I need a lot of them

I did so in my recent motor factory

[prisma kraken]

i don't understand using pure iron there, its not like you run out of iron before coal

[mystic moon]

Paired with copper rotor, pure copper, and steamed sheets

[mystic moon]

I was already piping in water for the copper and figured it was easier to set up pure iron since I already had water than it was to bring in another node

[prisma kraken]

see, i'd bring in the extra iron node, use copper alloy and say screw the water 🙂

[mystic moon]

That's not a bad way to do it either

I probably would've gone that route or similar if the factory wasn't already touching a lake

Since I built where there was coal & copper and there happened to be a lake 🙂

[prisma kraken]

yeah

i'm really not a fan of the pure recipes

[mystic moon]

Oh really?

[prisma kraken]

clarifying what i mean by 'pure' in this context, i mean the water+ore ones

[mystic moon]

Yeah I know what you mean

Why's that?

[prisma kraken]

they're big refinery builds which are sort of a pain to find the real-estate for and also just very power hungry

i mean, i use pure cat by default because its all there is, but copper i default to copper alloy, and iron, its really just always tossed into smelters

[mystic moon]

Fused quickwire...

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i know

steamed sheet i use, but with an asterisk

i don't use sheets for anything but ai limiters

[mystic moon]

Huh

[prisma kraken]

there's a few building materials i have a hard time figuring out how to get into a storage mall b/c they only exist on my world being direct belted into other machines 😛

ai limiters are the only thing in the game you need sheets for

[mystic moon]

I figured I'd give it a shot in my last save, and I built a factory that produced every single item worth storing all in one

1/10 would not reccomend

[prisma kraken]

that's trickier than you would expect it to be

[mystic moon]

I knew what I was getting myself into and I still was surprised

I think my biggest error was intermixing production lines

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i've thought quite a bit about the problem, and do have some designs for it all, either on paper or research project builds

out of the 33 building items, i can fit 8 into a 12x4 space using 300 iron

that's the easy part for basic iron+wire/cable+rip/rotor/mf

[mystic moon]

Yeah, producing supercomps, tms, etc in the same factory is unwise

[prisma kraken]

haha, just the aluminum is like a 10x10 footprint

for oil or aluminum, i don't think mini-builds for components really make a lot of sense

i think you kind of just do much better by saying 'this build will process an entire node' and size it like that

[stuck thunder]

does anyone have a meta sheet for power (uranium)?

[prisma kraken]

@vapid gorge

EIP is just objectively better by every metric except for building space

what is interesting is that using compacted steel is the most power intensive way, i would have guessed coke steel would beat it

[vapid gorge]

super weird!

[eager escarp]

I think square spaghetti should be a term

Everything is nice and straight but it's still going all over the place coz of how dense it is

[thorny cedar]

nop i dont want to be associated with spaget at all XD dont call it square spaget

[vapid gorge]

by that definition a computer chip would be 'spaghetti'

[eager escarp]

Well it's complex enough for me to not be able to understand it without tracing a path

So I suppose yes

[thorny cedar]

round squares... i see i see

[prisma kraken]

just wait until you get into phase 2 & 3, things get considerably more complex 😛

that spot on the southern end of grass fields is really kind of a nice spot

[eager escarp]

I wish there was a flinger/cannon type item transport that just flings everything from one location to another

[viral ravine]

Drones can technically accomplish that purpose of moving from one place to another without infrastructure besides two ports and a battery supply but drones are unlocked late in the game and they are actually inefficient if the distance is too short

[median heath]

AIR QUOTES "late game" AIR QUOTES

😉

[viral ravine]

late game by my own definiton 🙄

the end of the tutorial for you

[median heath]

❤️

[vapid gorge]

as long as it was balanced by it scatter shotting every item and you having to manually pick up the items on the other end, sure

[viral ravine]

If it worked that way nobody would ever use it

A machine that needs to be maintaned by hand in my automation factory game? Nuh uh, there's a reason i dreaded the biomass step

[vapid gorge]

precisely

[eager escarp]

Is there another way of rebasing 4 conveyor lines into 3, assuming that the throughput of the input conveyors are >50% of the maximum belt capacity? I have no idea if this abomination even works but it's the only thing I can think of

[wind spade]

I'd think about why doing this in the first place

if you have 4 belt lines build the next part so that it uses 4 lines 🙂

[eager escarp]

Coz I have 4 miners, 4 production lines but the truck station takes 3 inputs

[wind spade]

truck station has two inputs 🤔

the third one is for fuel

[eager escarp]

Wait

Ehhhhh

Then I can't even use trucks for this

[wind spade]

you can, build two stations

(or build the factory where the miners are 🤷‍♂️ )

[eager escarp]

Ah well I should probably build two roads

[wind spade]

you can use the natural roads that exist

and the trucks can share roads

[eager escarp]

Wait how do they share roads? Do you make them drive in a loop

Or you need to program them to stay one only one side of the road

[wind spade]

the natural roads are usually wide enough

so that they can run on one side each direction

[eager escarp]

Ah ok thanks

[leaden depot]

Ok, I have some fluid issues. I am making 1200/min turbo fuel, going into a long loop of fuel gens tuned to consume about 1185 to leave a little slack.

Problem is, the fuel is getting stuck in the turbofuel blenders, and the last generators are shutting down.

How do I get the blenders to drain more efficiently?

[kind cairn]

Turn off all generators manually, wait for them to fill, then turn on again

If that doesn't work, install a fluid buffer between blenders and generators

[leaden depot]

they were running underclocked for a long time, and full, and I cranked them up gradually.

[kind cairn]

You says blenders could drain more efficiently, are you seeing tfuel back up in the output of the blenders?

[mystic moon]

@leaden depot add a third pipe that connects to both feeder pipes at the start of the generator manifold, then run it down the middle of the row and tie it in at the back of the manifold

[leaden depot]

yes, the back blenders have fuel in their output buffers.

[mystic moon]

You're bumping into typical mk2 manifold issues at max flow

[kind cairn]

So there's a pipe bottlenecking between blenders and generators

[leaden depot]

Ah, I thought the loop at the back would help with that, but I see why an earlier junction could help

[mystic moon]

No, the issue is at the manifold

[kind cairn]

Yes, issue is a bottleneck at the manifold.... Right? Because of MK2 pipes not flowing at true 600/m

[mystic moon]

The will flow a full 600, it just gets finicky sometimes

[leaden depot]

ok, I joined the ends together at the back of the blenders, and ran that to the back of the generators. Let's see if they catch up.

blenders are not saving any output anymore, so that's good. thanks all!

[median heath]

Buffers never help.

[vast jungle]

Loops of fluids are always a headache I think... but I agree, buffers are often at best a "hack"

[snow dove]

buffers never help

at best they’re entirely useless

[vast jungle]

they were quite useful as emergency (turbo-fuel) power supply for kickstarting after a power failure... before we got batteries

[snow dove]

before we got batteries

[median heath]

Why would there ever be a power failure?

[vast jungle]

a combination of being stuck in the "want to finish this factory" and "not enough power production" ? 😉

[true junco]

In U7 batteries caused massive FPS drops for me.

Havnt built enough in one place in U8 to see if its still an issue for me tho.

[vast jungle]

with the new Priority Power switches it should be much easier to prevent the power grid to blow in U8 (have only played U3, U6 and U7)

[median heath]

If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong.

[vast jungle]

played only with TF power in my earlier playthroughs (didn't want to handle nuclear waste)... so a few times I pushed my grid too far...

but designing a "self-starting" nuclear power factory in U7 was fun... building the factories for the last space elevator parts was not (stopped during building the last part ^^)

[frosty owl]

Welcome back @vast jungle ^^ 👋
You'll have some fun with the new things, there's a few fun new toys to play with

[snow dove]

i have 400 in my base and i’m fine

[hollow juniper]

Fuel generators use 12 fuel /min and generate 150 MW each

So the equation to work out their power is (Fuel IN/12) * 150MW = Power Right?

need some power and dont want to screw myself with bad math

[mystic moon]

yes

[hollow juniper]

So 3200 Fuel would equal 40,000W?

(3200/12)*150

sorry for basic questions just double checking lol

[mystic moon]

I didn't check the numbers but the math is right

[hollow juniper]

lol okie

now we just hope the satisfactory calculator is right lol

i meant both the ingame one AND the Online factory planner one lol

[mystic moon]

In the future, I'd reccomend https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ instead of scim for factory planning

[hollow juniper]

yeah im using that for my Fuel production
but there isnt a "throw it in a Furance" option

[vapid gorge]

end up getting it working?

[leaden depot]

Yeah, been running all day, perfectly flat and satisfying

[median heath]

If you're using Diluted you can simplify the ballparking of numbers to just "300 Oil = 10 GW"

[desert oxide]

Mined ore is a byproduct apparently.. hmm

[true junco]

Tools sometimes does funny things like that.

[median heath]

Looks like you told it you had specifically 1200 Qtz.
So it took that as "I have to assign all 1200 of it"

[true junco]

That sometimes can happen. I often try to see whats reasonable for a location and put in whats available. If that causes it I usually just put in the amount shown on the path im actually trying to work on. 🙃

Its rarer, but I have also noticed some combinations of recipies have made entire erroneous chains that arent connected at all to the requested parameters.

[wind spade]

@mystic parrot see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[mystic parrot]

good to know

Also, does anyone have a heavy modular frame factory schematic?
i kinda need it

[kind cairn]

Bad resolution, here's original

Also, if you don't have the required unlocks yet, this one's easier to set up:

[mystic parrot]

Okay thank you!

[kind cairn]

If you like them templates, look up satisfactory oldshavingfoam on Google, they have a whole Google drive full of really useful schematics like this for different states of progression

[mystic parrot]

Okay i looked at it

and basically, this sheesh is too damn complicated

thought it would be a 10 minute adventure, but no, i need to automate iron, normal iron frames, and steel, and guess what? I dont have enough iron, frames or steel, and trying to get more would mean getting more DISGUSTING nature

[leaden depot]

Gross. Pave it quickly.

[mystic parrot]

AND i have an Existing factroy that i'll have to redisign due to it being too old and crappy...fucking hell

devs, for the LOVE OF GOD, add an option to turn singleplayer into multiplayer and vice-versa

[viral ravine]

oh boy it only gets better

there will be time when you look back at HMF and realize how easy it was to make

[mystic parrot]

Okay so i came up with one idea that would everyone like AND would fit into Satisfactory high-tech AND would be balanced: The Quantum Storage (name is the only thing out of touch) basically, it would be the size of normal storage container, BUT it would have an infinite ammount of space. "But kuzuki, how is that balanced" Well, this storage would use tremendous ammount of energy OR items as a fuel source (basically, it would open a new dimension to store your suff inside), since E = mc^2. It would work like a coal generator - it eats coal once every 4 secs or so. at the bottom we would have stuff like leaves and wood, and at the top - nuclear stuff. What happens when you DONT provide it stuff? All the stuff you stored there will be automatically destroyed. It would cost 500 Supercomputers, 100 fused modular frames and 50 nuclear pasta.

Whatis ya'all opinion?

[mystic moon]

I don't mind it except for the fact that it would let you cheat nuclear

[mystic parrot]

well, technically you allready can

i think

[mystic moon]

?

[mystic parrot]

can you put nuclear into sink?

[mystic moon]

You have to do some pretty complex processing to do it but yes

[mystic parrot]

can't you just put nuclear barrels into sink?

[mystic moon]

No

[cinder silo]

No, you need a waste processing facility like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvH2myCJoXo

[mystic parrot]

well, i only reached Oil Energy sooo

Not the best guy to judge...

[fiery berry]

producing 1440screws/m how can i balance it out for my mk4 belts in a ''simpler'' way?, is it possible or just let it run as is and unlock mk5 eventually (im not in need of full 100% production just maxing ore nodes already picked)

[mystic moon]

What recipie are you using?

[fiery berry]

cast screws

[mystic moon]

Then just do four machines per belt

[mystic parrot]

also, another - Stuff Counter:
It would cost as much as a splitter or merger, BUT it would tell you how much stuff is flowing thru a line

would make organisation a lot easier

[mystic moon]

Already confirmed no by the devs

[mystic parrot]

Man

Screw devs AND Windows

[mystic moon]

?

[mystic parrot]

Devs for not adding eco power, the thing i mentioned, ect

[fiery berry]

with how i built already i have 2 450 belts and one 500, wait that math dont work out

[mystic parrot]

And Windows for not letting me install Mods for satisfactory

[mystic moon]

No need to balance, just use an injection manifold or clock the consumers so that you can just perfectly match each belt

[mystic moon]

Why wouldn't windows let you install mods?

[mystic parrot]

It thinks it's a virus and no matter what i do, it wont let me have my Eco power

[mystic moon]

You can manually whitelist it

Also that sounds like you need to update your os

[mystic parrot]

Even if i do, my stupid Anti-virus wont accept it

[mystic moon]

You can whitelist it there too

There's no real point in having one anyways

[fiery berry]

ive had 0 problems running just windows anti-virus. why not trust windows over scareware programs

WAIT IVE found how i solve it no problem... i found that one of the screw constructors is 180% overclocked due to space, so splitting that 90 output into 3 i can balance and get even belts!

[viral ravine]

Sounds cool on paper but if its made from nuclear pasta, then by the time you can make it you already produced everything in the game thats worth storing and wont need anymore

too late to be viable in that case

[mystic parrot]

Recipie was a thing i thought of for 5 mins, and i didn't finish the game. At all.

[viral ravine]

well fused modular frames and nuclear pasta appear in tier 7 and 8 respectively

fused frames are a part of select few buildings and pasta is just space elevator

[mystic parrot]

it has to be not too hard, and not too easy

it cant just cost a bit of limestone, wire, plates and rods

[viral ravine]

I guess fused frames are reasonable, they are an upgrade over HMFs

and pasta uses pressure conversion cubes which are an upgrade over FMFs

[wind spade]

Don't see a use for that given that one container worth of items is usually more than enough storage of that item

[frosty owl]

Easily fixed if the input acts like (or similarly to) a sink, not accepting Wastes

[mystic moon]

True

[viral ravine]

Drone experts, I have a question; if a port Z serves as a home port for drone X, and a destination for drone Y, is it possible to make only the drone Y take batteries from here and drone X from it's destination or i have to feed both of them at Z?

[oblique hollow]

if a drone lands at a port, it should pick up batteries if its actual home port doesnt have any

[viral ravine]

yeah but thats the problem, This port will be a home for a single drone but I dont want this drone to take batteries from it

[oblique hollow]

why not

[viral ravine]

I only want the drone that treats this port as a destination to take batteries

[oblique hollow]

not really possible, they take what they can get

[viral ravine]

Alright

[summer sage]

Can I get a math check.?

28 coal Gens. I have Mk. 3 Miners on 4 Normal Coal Nodes. Everything is maxed out with power shards. In order to achieve that "perfectly balanced light" What should my numbers look like?

I have mathed until I can't anymore lol

[oblique hollow]

coal is simple: 1 gen at 100% needs 15/min
15 x 28 x 2.5 = 1050
for water, its 45/min at 100%
so 45 x 28 x 2.5 = 3150

[worn cove]

Also, if you have 4 mk3 miners at 250% on normal nodes, you have avaiable 2400 coal /min, what can sustain 64 coal gens @ 250%, what will require 7200 water /min

[summer sage]

Thank you ❤️

[summer sage]

Any suggestion on belt splitting? I am still seeing red lights 😦

[thorny cedar]

red lights mean no power?

[summer sage]

no fuel is what i am getting

[oblique hollow]

red is literally "missing either fuel or water or a power cable"

for the splitting just do whatever works out. Overflow or smthng

[worn cove]

Overflow might be the best. 37,5/min sounds terrible to load balance

[snow dove]

manifolds are great

[worn cove]

technically could split 150/min belt to 4 gens, with 600 from a single miner, splitting that to 4 150 mk3 belts could sustain 4 small manifolds per 4 gens. This might take a bit of space, more than overflow, but will definitely improve facility startup and balance time

[oblique hollow]

one miner split into 16 works, but is a bit tedious

[worn cove]

But I think overflow would be way easier. (I personally would just go with load balancing for coal gens, but yea I'm the weird guy )

[worn cove]

I should have just say that instead of explaining my thought process lmao

[snow dove]

i’m gonna be playing for hundreds of hours anyways, what’s an hour long wind up gonna hurt

[summer sage]

Just a lil back ground too. I am doing this in creative (for the no reprecussions value if I make a mistake and a free range to learn.) I have a normal playthrough but this is just to chill and relax

[summer sage]

I have all those nice balanced lights now Thanks guys 😄

[thorny cedar]

ok so here is the prob i need exactly 150 of the first image i rounded up bcs 150x100/60 is not a good number so i rounded up to 230.77%... so they need 150x20/65 water wich is also not a good number but 150x20/65*13 is exactly 600 water per minute so it should be close enougth?!?!

is it 100% or pseudo 100%?

[worn cove]

I mean.. you can also write 150 in the per minute, what will give you exactly 150 per minute 😅

Also, I might be out of topic, but do you have a bit more context on what you are trying to do 👀

[thorny cedar]

type 150*100/65 in your calculator :c

[oblique hollow]

just type that formula into the percentage window

[thorny cedar]

only if you calc it to 13 its 600 water but every machine should be rounded up for optimal output?

[oblique hollow]

and multiply by 100

[thorny cedar]

even with small yellow light

with no yellow light at all

[oblique hollow]

(150/65 * 100) right in there

it can resolve that equation in there

[worn cove]

Okay that is something I didn't even knew 👀

[median heath]

It isn't exact though.

[oblique hollow]

works fine enough for whatever i do

[thorny cedar]

thats my point

[oblique hollow]

havent had any backups from that in any current timeframe

[thorny cedar]

but the total of 13 are exact

[median heath]

The total of 13 is exact if you don't truncate each of the 13.

[thorny cedar]

so it should work when correctly piped at 150/min even when slightly rounded up

good

[oblique hollow]

just dont round up

the truncation is decent enough that it doesn't interfere
i have a factory with the polymer resin alt in use

[thorny cedar]

does it round up 150/65*100 internaly or does it round to the nearest

[oblique hollow]

and i always just slapped equations in and left it at that

[thorny cedar]

otherwise i want to make sure

[oblique hollow]

it truncates after 4th digit and that hasnt caused issues in the forseeable future

that factory i have has been running for multiple hundred hours at this point from what i remember

[thorny cedar]

yea est lifetime is 1500 hours by this point until restart

i trust you :3 and do it green

and its just the frames for the pasta

[oblique hollow]

the error between 230.769230769230769230... and 230.7692 is 0.0001333%

[thorny cedar]

so every milliomth ingot get scipped

sorry nope sorry

[oblique hollow]

after a million minutes, thats 150,000.019 ingots vs 150,000

[thorny cedar]

yea nvm

im dumb you calc on the percantage

[median heath]

UNACCEPTABLE

[thorny cedar]

of ingots

[oblique hollow]

thats almost 2 years of active game time until not even ONE extra ingot appears

[median heath]

Still unacceptable.

[thorny cedar]

well thats not even close to my max

in total time

[oblique hollow]

after 10 years, theres still not even 1 whole extra ingot

[thorny cedar]

not in this game tho

[thorny cedar]

the ingot is not extra the ingot gets skipped

thats my problem!

[oblique hollow]

oh right yea

10 years until you are 1 ingot short

[thorny cedar]

i cant beg here its against the rules :c

[oblique hollow]

beg for mercy

then if you want a surplus, change the last digit from 2 to 3

then it is truly a surplus of 1 after 10 years

[thorny cedar]

yea but i only feed 600 water thats the point and 150x20/65*13 is exactly that even if i round up inbetween

even in inf it should not be one less ingot or one more?

if i round up inbetween and just feed 600 water if should be if piped right exactly 150 ingots per min and i cant miss any even after 100 years can i?

not factor but yea

[oblique hollow]

just took a look, the accuracy of the truncated numbers falls into at least 5 sigma levels of precision

[true junco]

Is the game only truncating the % in the clock rate? I assume all other numbers arent because the only real thing happening is the "per cycle" values of inputs, outputs and cylce time, and we are modifying the cycle time by a percentage limited to increments of .001% up to 250% (i forget if there is a mininum clock rate above 0%)

[oblique hollow]

in truncates one and rounds the others

[true junco]

So Ficsit isnt 6sigma? Lol

[oblique hollow]

no ficsit is 5sigma

as evident by all the crashed freighters

[true junco]

Lmfao

[oblique hollow]

they truly strive by the "accurate but not so much that it turns costly"

[median heath]

Which according to MIT "In most cases, a five-sigma result is considered the gold standard for significance, corresponding to about a one-in-a-million chance that the findings are just a result of random variations"

So FICSIT is meeting standards 😉

6 would be "above standards" and you know how FICSIT loves to save cost if they are already being efficient 😉

[oblique hollow]

at least their computers are more accurate

[median heath]

True.

[true junco]

Six sigma is a marketted thing. Thats what i was getting at.

[oblique hollow]

since theres not as much wiggle room in semiconductors

[median heath]

Seems to have double-meaning?

[oblique hollow]

this isnt even about accuracy technically, it is supply rate

[median heath]

The marketing meaning and the statistics meaning.

[oblique hollow]

ficsit parts work 100% of the time xd

[median heath]

True.

[oblique hollow]

but their rates and whatnot are limited

so yeah overall ficsit is kinda wishy washy 5sigmahead

[median heath]

This game actually inspired me to start designing my own factory game. ❤️

[true junco]

Sigmas is a terminology related to error or deviation rates etc.

Six sigma is also a specific program created by some guy who makes money off of selling books.

[oblique hollow]

its more accurate to say ficsit has an uptime of 99.999986666%

[median heath]

Apparently it originated from Motorola in the 80's and the other guy didn't write the book based on what Motorola was doing until 15-20 years later.

[oblique hollow]

so they have "six nines" uptime

...
sixtynine

[median heath]

GIGGLE

That's fucking intentional and you know it.

Well done @ CSS

[true junco]

Yeah. Its a whole thing. But he wrote and marketted his book to make money obviously. The concepts behind it are fine tho. Its just about getting your business to a successrate of 99.9999...% for all its tasks and products etc. It doesnt apply to everyone and not everyone ahould pursue it... but if you are making nuclear reactors, space ships etc... its definitely something you should be doing.

[oblique hollow]

it doesnt even cover what an error of 1 in a million would be

[median heath]

This is getting #off-topic-general but I will say the US Military has heavy investments into trying to adopt L6S wherever possible.

[oblique hollow]

like. theres minor and major defects

[true junco]

Well. Everything is more complicated than what can be shat out in a few sentances in a group chat...

[thorny cedar]

so but under the line if i feed 600 water and round up the refs its more correct is it not?

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/avril-lavigne-gif-9619884

[median heath]

"Yes"

But also, this is why I don't use Pure Iron pretty much ever.
And when I do use it, I just make "clean" %'s on the machines and sink the extra 1-2 ingots per minute at the end of the line.

[oblique hollow]

pipes have floating point error correction anyway and that kind of stuff is probably so small it gets mitigated by that error correction

[median heath]

Very interested to see what changes with the pipe balance update.

[thorny cedar]

if i pipe correctly i would not care

[oblique hollow]

honestly for pipes i would be fine if a machine say "i need 600/min" and if i deliver 599.99/min it still says "yeah that falls within margin of error, 600 it is"

[true junco]

RP moment. Pretend this is quality control taking periodic items for testing for defects.

[thorny cedar]

they just send HR to reprimand my quality

[oblique hollow]

if you gonna use pure iron, use it in for full mk 5 belts

[median heath]

Fair.
I can also "FICSIT DOES NOT WASTE" it by saying "even though we don't need the extra ingots for target production -- points in the sink.

So if I have 1200 iron but need only 1178, sink the excess so I am not "wasting" potential.

[oblique hollow]

all hail the green lights (as long as its not sinks i guess lul)

[median heath]

Green is becoming the rarest light on my world, lol.

[oblique hollow]

how

[median heath]

Blue/White is the entirety of my latest outpost.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/17jmygb/steel_outpost/

[oblique hollow]

oh that does indeed look pretty

[thorny cedar]

yes i was about to ask about ore now? bcs i need 150x35/65x13 wich is 270 and 780 total with round up in between i wont it to back up ever 😄

[median heath]

The only green I can think of is the truck stops and the drone port.

Wait, Jump Pad has a green too.

But all 40 Fuel Gens at clocked to 250%.
And every other building is OC'd for maximum compactness of space.

[worn cove]

Just from curiosity, are you collecting all of the slugs, or just going Kibz route and overclocking everything for perfomance reasons with "legally cheated" slugs?

[median heath]

This was also when I discovered the new sushi configuration @oblique hollow

[median heath]

I want to say both, but it isn't about performance.
Just about compactness.

Performance has never been an issue for me in this game.

[worn cove]

Ah. Well I mostly do the oposite and love doing huge stuff

[median heath]

I collect everything and then spawn extras when that is done.

[median heath]

I do huge stuff even with overclocking 😄

[thorny cedar]

overclocked as much as possible

[worn cove]

Yup, but I do huge without what makes it even bigger

I could have just overcloekd 40 gens to get 7,5 GW of power from Coal, but where is the fun in that

[median heath]

Same size you currently have + overclock = More production.

[thorny cedar]

dude its big enough for me and my compute even if its rly good 💀

[worn cove]

True. But one of my goals on current playthrough is to play fully vanilla so

I'm too lazy to collect a lot of slugs, so I use them sparingly

[median heath]

I haven't spawned anything on U8 because the devs keep respawning the slugs for me with each patch 😄

[worn cove]

Oh right Sadly didn't have a way to play satisfactory enough to get such nice benefits

[thorny cedar]

i dont thing my compute could handle all the ~14k machines i would need at all in gpu :>

[median heath]

Be retired.
Have tons of time.

😉

[thorny cedar]

my cpu can handle the numbers tho :3

so i reduced the 14k by .4

[worn cove]

I'm too young for that yet :/

[median heath]

I'm 31 😄

[worn cove]

Eee. 17 Starting this monday job practices 😅

[median heath]

Best of luck!

[thorny cedar]

yep same

idk where you are but i hope you get enougth for it 🙂

[worn cove]

Nice :D Best of luck as well!

[true junco]

Overclocking stations when?! 😆

[median heath]

No need.

[thorny cedar]

no same in best of luck dont take me wrong

i just learnd im older than sev :3

[median heath]

OC'd Hypertubes could be the answer to Hypercannons being borked.

[worn cove]

Yea nearly 10pm starts to get me lol

[thorny cedar]

thats such a good and "simple" idea

[median heath]

Like don't try to rebug the game, just make a faster component that gives you the same effect as "official support"

[true junco]

Its a joke. Idk what about them could even be "overclocked" well. Trainstations would be loading time i suppose.

[worn cove]

Well Capital of Poland! I will have practices in one of the bigger IT companies in here, probably going to work on some project in Java for a full month. Curious what they will ask me to do, but I will know everything at monday!

[true junco]

Oh damn. Im older than Sevr too. 😆

[cinder silo]

I'm 46 ...

[worn cove]

Everyone is older than me

[true junco]

Yay, im not the oldest. Lol

[median heath]

Yeah but remember enlisted for 10 years so my body is like 58

[true junco]

Thats about right. 😆 very few of my friends who were in the military have bodies that match their ages. 😆

[median heath]

Can you imagine if FICSIT didn't use caseless ammo?
And the more combat you had the more the map just got littered with shell casings from the rifle 😂

[true junco]

AMERICAN BALD EAGLE FAPPING NOISES INTENSIFY

[median heath]

We have done multiple trials of different caseless rounds though.
Just haven't gotten it to work in a way we want.

[true junco]

Yeah. Caseless will probably finally find a home with man portable railguns (coilguns actually but whatever)

[median heath]

So in 50+ years? lol

[true junco]

Somewhere between tomorrow and never. Lol

We can nail down HL3 release date more accurately than manportable EMA firearms.

[wind spade]

@drowsy hull see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[drowsy hull]

what

[wind spade]

click the link to read the message

[drowsy hull]

HOW DID YOU DO THAT

[oblique hollow]

what, make a link?

[cinder silo]

Right click a message, select copy message link, then paste where you want it ****

[leaden depot]

How do you deal with container recycling loops? I feel like I really want a priority merger to shut down container production, but now I just have to overflow sink empties.

[true junco]

I tried making a system to shut down container production but it was more trouble than its worth. So i just manually shut it down once i had the amount of containers right.

[leaden depot]

Yeah, I wish I could leave it running, so I can scale up consumption without worrying

But I’m thinking I’ll just make a rather large staging buffer for empties. And shut it off once it’s half full or something.

[cinder silo]

In container loops I always manually fed them until the system is running smoothly.

[wind spade]

or make 1:1:1 loop (if we're talking DPF) and put like 20 containers in i t

[summer sage]

I have 24 completely overclocked water extractors.. what is my max possible output

with mk 2 pipes

[cinder silo]

My old dpf loop had a several hundred containers but it was a huge system, I had to ensure there was space in it to avoid it jamming up though.

[oblique hollow]

with blueprints the superior method is to just blueprint one refinery + packager with canisters already inserted

water extractors make 300/min on max overclock

[summer sage]

lol

[oblique hollow]

300 x 24, cmon its not hard

[summer sage]

No its not hard, but I have been mathing all day and Just needed a lil help ...

Ty both

[viral ravine]

Pure water bodies when

[median heath]

We have Pure Water Wells 😉

[viral ravine]

I know but im talking like more water per water lakes

[kind cairn]

deep water

[median heath]

@craggy crane moving here so I can use images, are these the symbols you were talking about?

"None" is pretty self-explanatory so I won't spend time on that.
"Any" means the output functions like a normal, non-smart splitter.

Meaning this would just be a normal splitter.

[craggy crane]

See? Why is the symbol like it loops? That is confusing.

[median heath]

This would ALSO function like a normal splitter if the only thing you're sending to it is Plastic.

[median heath]

The culmination of this explanation will be that you shouldn't really use Any or Any Undefined given where you are at.

The only outputs that you, personally, should be using are Overflow, Specific Item, and None.

The other settings are for more advanced scenarios.

For example, this configuration fixes your current problem instantly.

[wind spade]

any undefined is useful in some common scenarios imo (sorting stuff)

[craggy crane]

I read the wiki article on them now.

[median heath]

Unless you want to go read all the context in #satisfactory , let me have this please.

Because I am tailoring this specifically to them.

[craggy crane]

I just was confused using them the first time, never used them again and kinda forgot that they even exist

[wind spade]

I'm replying to you 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

In that case I never use Any Undefined in a common scenario and very certainly never use it in sorting.

[craggy crane]

But yeah they make sense and would have made my life easier :)

[median heath]

@wind spade

Overflow, Specific Item, and None

Only settings I use in sorting systems.

[craggy crane]

So you can set two in a row and say for example left side goes leaves, right side goes wood and in the middle goes any stuff that is not defined and then have a smart splitter after that that says left side goes flower petals coming from one storage to automatically sort my stuff, after i was forced to use the chainsaw?

[wind spade]

yeah

[prisma kraken]

I have a sorting array exactly for that type of stuff

in goes anything, out comes powershards & things that go boom 🙂

(in actuality, it isn't that complicated, i do sort of slugs to be 'processed' in constructors, but most of it just turns stuff into coal that mixes with sulfur for black powder

[craggy crane]

Okay thank you @median heath I think i have to play a bit more and maybe rebuild some parts of my production lines and thank you to all else.
Still find the symbols confusing tho.

[oblique hollow]

you'll remember what they stand for eventually

[prisma kraken]

i sort of just remember that 'overflow' won't stop a belt whereas 'any undefined' will stop a belt

[median heath]

I honestly just click the down arrow and type the word into the line so it becomes the only option.

[prisma kraken]

something else of note is that when you need to set the same values in multiple splitters, copy & paste works for them

also in several places where bp's haven't been the most ideal to use, i have bp'd the splitters with correct settings... more applicable to complicated programmable splitter settings, but works for regular smart splitters too

[median heath]

left side goes leaves, right side goes wood and in the middle goes any stuff that is not defined

If you do Left - Leaves, Right - Wood, Mid - Any Undefined
-- The system will jam if either side fills.

If you do Left - Leaves, Right - Wood, Mid - Any
-- Half the wood/leaves will go through the middle at all times.

If you do Left - Leaves, Right - Wood, Mid - Overflow
-- Middle will only output things that are not wood or leaves and will send leaves/wood through if the respective side output is full.

Unrelated: @frosty owl does the order in which you list things on a pogger matter?

[frosty owl]

Not that I know of.
Note: if the outputs aren't higher MK than the input of the pogger, the split won't be consistently even

[median heath]

Would the be some interesting applications if the order did matter?

[frosty owl]

Nothing comes to mind.
If adding the same filter to the same output multiple times made a difference, though, that could have interesting results

[prisma kraken]

i wonder if they'll ever add that for simple ratio splitting

i'd guess no since that's probably some very optimized code

[steel arch]

Hi guys, I was building my nuclear power plant in height and at launch I ran into the problem that the water starts to flow very badly at an altitude of about 700m, is there a limiter for the height of the pressure supply in the game?

[median heath]

There is no limiter. Just have to wait for the system to fill.

[steel arch]

OK, so far this tower is running at 65%

30000MWh

Although it is designed for 50,000

And if I make plutonium reactors from waste, then I can squeeze 75,000

[prisma kraken]

In case anyone ever wondered.... It is possible to gather leaves with a chainsaw faster than a max-overclocked 2+1 biomass->solid biofuel constructor setup can consume

[eager escarp]

just started on T5, which option is better? Idk much about the oil stuff yet

[median heath]

Better is subjective.

There is no objective "best" answer.
Just pick what you want to pick.
You will eventually unlock everything.

[prisma kraken]

all 3 are very good

[eager escarp]

like if I have nothing regarding oil as of now, which option would help more in the short term

[median heath]

1

[prisma kraken]

probably the packaged fuel is of the most utility immediately, but the HOR alt is one of the best alts in the game, up there with solid steel & copper alloy

[eager escarp]

oh ok thanks

[prisma kraken]

steel rotor is also really nice b/c it allows you to make rotors & stators out of the same stuff

[eager escarp]

does the diluted packaged fuel have better rates than if I were to put the liquid form of fuel into the packager?

[median heath]

Fuel is Fuel. Gens burn it the same no matter where it came from.

[prisma kraken]

your question doesn't make sense

packaging fuel is 1:1

[median heath]

What DPF does is give you a higher conversion from Oil to Fuel, so you get more Fuel out of your Oil.
But it is outclassed by the T7-8 version of the same recipe that is just called "Diluted Fuel" @eager escarp

[eager escarp]

oh ok

[prisma kraken]

it makes more fuel from oil than any other way, later there's an alt that lets you mix it in a blender at the same ratios & removes the need to package/unpackage

where dpf is nice is that making jetpack fuel ends up being packaging water and belting that into a refinery

you can create a fuel power plant that packages water and unpackages the fuel to burn in the generators, but its a bit of a hassle to do that unless you need the power before you get to blenders

do keep in mind in making up your mind, that hor can also be converted to coke to burn in coal generators

[eager escarp]

also am I missing something or are the crude oil products being produced faster than it needs to be? two pure nodes can produce enough of all 3 products in a minute to overtake my iron products production

[prisma kraken]

you just aren't yet needing enough plastic & rubber, lol

you'll end up using lots of both

i have 1600 plastic going to making nothing but batterys, 900 going to making adhered plate, another 330 going to make iron plates, 630 rubber going to oscillators, etc

[median heath]

2 pure nodes maxes out at 1200 oil, which is roughly 10% of all oil on the map.

If you want the translation of that to iron -- imagine how much stuff you'd be making with 7,218 iron/min

[worn cove]

100 Modular Frames / min without alternatives (nvm messed up the numbers, 7,2k of iron would be slighty over 300MFs /min)

[wind spade]

see also #math-and-meta message

[prisma kraken]

i wonder how big a no-alt version of MF's would be to build

probably not much bigger than the efficient plastic&rubber one, but hmmm

[worn cove]

That would take up some space, not much if you go vertically a lot but still

[median heath]

Even less if you OC.

[prisma kraken]

that's not too bad except for the constructor counts

[worn cove]

Total of 384 machines if you overclock everything at 250% (excluding miners)

So not terrible. Cast screws would probably drop that count a lot as well

120 not-overclocked constructors less with cast screw alt

[wind spade]

cast steel

[worn cove]

Hmm.. okay lets go now the other way, smallest amount of machines

[prisma kraken]

i have the answer to that

[wind spade]

there's pretty much no parameter in which cast screws are better than any other screw alt 🤔

except for "I don't want my screws made from steel"

[median heath]

Always have to consider the "Because I feel like it" parameter that people love to throw down in debates.

[worn cove]

I just yeet screws from all of my factories

[eager escarp]

Wait why do you calculate based on overclocked machines? Do ppl usually overclock stuff other than the source producers? I feel like my slugs would vanish pretty fast if I start overclocking all my constructors

[wind spade]

that's so U2

[prisma kraken]

there's one, in an iron only factory, it does save space, i have a build yard bp that uses it for base iron goods + wire + cable

[wind spade]

see ^

[worn cove]

That's also when I started playing so that would make sense

[wind spade]

we had like 3 major recipe rebalances since then, maybe time to re-evaluate? 🙂

[median heath]

1. Slugs are infinite.
2. Collectible slugs total over 1400 shards(even more added on U8)

So... use them.

You will have plenty left over after overclocking all your miners.

[worn cove]

Depends really. Some people prefer to overclock everything to save space. Some (like me) overclock when they need to for better looks, some just go with only miners.

But yea, like Sevrahn said, slugs are pretty much infinite if you are patient-ish enough.

[median heath]

Space-saving is a consideration, yes, but the primary usage of them is making nicer building ratios.

Like if overclocking certain parts of a production line can get you that 1:1:1:1 -- worth it.

[worn cove]

Might be worth changing some old practices yea ^^" But for now it's fine.

[median heath]

Pretty sure the heirarchy of Screw alts has always been what it is.

[wind spade]

U2?

[median heath]

What was different about Steel in U2?

[wind spade]

not about steel, about recipes that use screws

[median heath]

Oh.

[wind spade]

all of screwless recipes were just "better" than the screw variants

[eager escarp]

I usually just underclock stuff to the nearest multiple of 2 rn, maybe it's coz I don't have proper mobility stuff yet to find slugs

[median heath]

That's the next step.
I was moreso saying just comparing how Screws are made hasn't changed.

[wind spade]

no, but their usage had

[median heath]

True.

[wind spade]

can check 😄 https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/items

[worn cove]

Yea there are a few changes 😅

[wind spade]

well tbf old tool didn't include equipment recipes

but the most changes are in recipes that get rid of screws

but also here - copper rotor is most resource efficient rotor recipe, and it does include screws

[median heath]

||But not the most COUPON-efficient recipe ||

[prisma kraken]

How do you math it so that copper rotor is the most efficient out of these?

[wind spade]

weighted resource efficiency with tools

and honestly just looking at those, it seems pretty clear

[prisma kraken]

i'd trade iron for copper if the power is comparable any day

[wind spade]

steel is just horrible and 8 copper per 10 rotors is just super cheap compared to default

[prisma kraken]

that's mathing it with steel rod->screw too, which i doubt many people do

anyway, i'd rather use copper for something that needs it, but for rotors it doesn't really matter... a large world needs maybe 120 rotors/min total, so the resource efficiency doesn't save much at all

[wind spade]

well obviously if you start doing "I'd rather", we get into a subjective territory 🙂

and there anything can be "best"

I'm simply using the weighted resource (which is basically sink point value) as a metric for resource efficiency comparisons

[prisma kraken]

that's fair enough

you have to use something for a consistent rating 🙂

[viral ravine]

@mystic parrot #math-and-meta message

[leaden depot]

I know we’ve talked about nuclear power being “optional”, but I’m starting to think it’s downright bad power for what goes into it.

With default recipes, 600 uranium and a bunch more stuff gives ~75GW

I can get the same from turbo fuel with 1800 oil, some sulfur, and much less complexity.

[worn cove]

But where is the fun in that!

[frosty owl]

Why are you comparing the default nuclear recipes to an ALTERNATE recipe to make a point about how nuclear is "bad"?
It's like choosing the worst possible example to make your point

[leaden depot]

That’s fair. I was just trying to calculate a “simple” nuclear setup with maybe fewer steps than the full alternate way I usually start. And was disappointed how not worth it it was if power is the goal.

[frosty owl]

Reminder that "worth" is very subjective.
Eg: I might prefer to build refineries using Pure Recipes, while others would prefer using more smelters and grabbing one more Ore Node rather than having to deal with Water and the extra power requirement that the (more resource-efficient) pure recipes need; the "worth" of a node is different between 2 such players.

[viral ravine]

Math check, I need this particular generator to consume 13 m3 of fuel a minute, and according to my math, 13 = 100.83% of 12. Yet the generator states that it only consumes 12.1 m3 per minute. Whos wrong here? The UI or my math?

[true junco]

Yeah. Pretty sure you can get 180GW from 600 uranium via the alt path.

[viral ravine]

im asking because the last two generators in the chain are filling up more and more almost as if i was making too much fuel for them to consume

[frosty owl]

Math error: 13 = 108.333% of 12, not 100.833%

[viral ravine]

thank you kindly 🫡

[frosty owl]

The comma is to math what MK1 belt segments are to Satisfactory players

[viral ravine]

yup you are right, i made a mistake with the decimal

[frosty owl]

I totally didn't recognize that because I did that myself plenty of time <.<

My math is always perfect~

[viral ravine]

I mean, knowledge stems from expirence after all

[median heath]

13/12 =/= 1.0083

To Ven's point. I must also say:

13/12 =/=1.083 either.

It's a repeating decimal. Which isn't possible to do.
So this generator is incapable of consuming 13/min

[oblique hollow]

sev with the "actually" nitpick again

[median heath]

Always.

[oblique hollow]

in reality it is 12.999996/min

which gets truncated as far as i know?

or does it get rounded

[median heath]

Hey, if one of the devs wants to confirm that 12.999996 = 13, in a literal sense, not using the words "close enough", I will never again mention the 45-81 rule.

[oblique hollow]

@ Ben halp how precise are machines

[median heath]

[true junco]

Best i can offer is .9 = 1

[median heath]

Certain numbers not existing in certain bases of math is a fun topic.

[true junco]

Well. Thats a whole other thing. Lol

[median heath]

Specific to this you've got the concept of 3rds in Base 10 😄

[true junco]

Really 0.9(repeating) isnt quite equal to 1, rather any formulation that gives 0.9repeating converges to 1

[median heath]

Which is because technically 1/3 doesn't exist in base 10.

Like we as people fully understand the concept, but you can't display 1/3 using your fingers.

Had a deep dive into shit like this when I was trying to understand why certain parts of programming are just... never going to be precise. "Because certain numbers don't exist in Base 2" was the answer I was given.

But we are drifting into #off-topic-general -math 😉

[wind spade]

truncated for display, but the "accurate" number is used for calculations

[oblique hollow]

sooo whatever result you get from the percentage is used in the calculations?

[median heath]

That has been my understanding, but I am open to being told I am wrong.

[oblique hollow]

if i go with 108.3333% i get a rate of 12.9999960000

[wind spade]

yeah, so roughly that is used (as we know, computers suck at floating point math, so it could be 12.9999959999997 or whatever

[oblique hollow]

which is 1299999.6 m³ after 100k minutes

[median heath]

Computers are perfect and make no mistakes

[oblique hollow]

so after 100k minutes, you have an excess of around 0.4 cubic meters which has not been consumed

69 days roughly

[wind spade]

nice

[oblique hollow]

(classic)

it takes around 9 years for 20 m³ to accumulate

soooo once again, until proven otherwise, this is outside of a save's lifetime

[wind spade]

yeah we all know that, just Sev being Sev 😛

[median heath]

And once again, I don't deal in degrees of severity.

It exists, therefore I care.

[true junco]

Well, that's not exactly relevant to the whole .9repeating = 1 thing. Tho i think it is one of the ways of approaching it. There are a whole bunch of proofs for .9rep = 1

||Basically its a sum of n terms where

Term 1 = 9 × (0.1)^1
Term 2 = 9 × (0.1)^2
Term 3 = 9 × (0.1)^3

Term n = 9 × (0.1)^n

Taken to the limit where the nth term goes to infinity.

This sumation converges to 1 as n goes to infinity.||

[median heath]

You tagged me here because I know I don't read #off-topic-general , didn't you?

[true junco]

Oh. You can if you use Base 12 with your fingers. ||You can count the finger bones of the 4 fingers on one hand, thats 12. So 1 thru 12 on 1 hand. So 4 bones is 1/3 of a "hand" aka 1/3rd of a "dozen"||

[neon nexus]

hi, is it normal that without any pump on this segment the oil is still going up ?

i mean, there are pumps on the overall pipe network but not near here

[thorny cedar]

headlift is 12 meter + 10%

so 13.2 should be the maximum

or is it more for refs anyways it says in the tooltip

and the 10% is "buffer"

[neon nexus]

but the oil is going up to refs from far away oil pumps

so there shouldnt be any headlift applied here from what i understand

[thorny cedar]

where is the last pump?

[neon nexus]

i'd say at least 150m away

maybe 200m

[thorny cedar]

headlift is headlift if the screenshot it is not +40(mk2 pump) meter higher in an absolute number the pump 5km aways is enougth

[neon nexus]

so a pump can headlift something 2km away as long as the headlift threshold is respected ?

[thorny cedar]

yes

[median heath]

Yes. Headlift is only UP.
Lateral distance is irrelevant.

[neon nexus]

i didnt know that xD

[thorny cedar]

and if you pump it up 2km... 10km away you dont need more pumps to even get it up 2km :3

[neon nexus]

but ig since the pressure is kept inside the pump i should've figured it out

[thorny cedar]

the more u know :3 thats why ppl keep telling other ppl pump spam does not solve anything

[neon nexus]

so if i place enough pumps at the start of this for example to get up to the max height, i wont need any more unless i need to go higher ?

[thorny cedar]

yes

[neon nexus]

ig i'll salvage some pumps soon xD

[thorny cedar]

red is the cap

no more pumps needed

[viral ravine]

Isn't headlift whatever the last pump gives + the amount of meters that the fluid falls down?

[thorny cedar]

nop it does not fall

headlift is the z achse last pump coordinate +20m+10%/40m10%

[viral ravine]

alrightyo

[neon nexus]

thx for the tips

[median heath]

Please don't place all your pumps in sequence...

[viral ravine]

So you cant like, make a pipe go 20 meters down, then place a mk2 pump so that the fluid climbs 70 meters? (i cant think of a practical use case, just curious

[neon nexus]

wdym ?

[median heath]

No, because pumps reset all incoming lift to 0.

[thorny cedar]

it even harms you

bcs u need more pump

[median heath]

You have to space them vertically.
You can't just put a bunch of pumps on a horizontal pipe and think the lift stacks.

[thorny cedar]

by this metric of sevs

[viral ravine]

and if you place a pump before that 20m fall?

[neon nexus]

yep i figured this when i had to go higher than 50m ^^

[median heath]

Then you get 50 from that point.
If you go down 20m, you can come back up 20m and still have the 50m available.

[viral ravine]

Okay but actually, why doesnt the headlift stack? Feels like its just an aritifical design decision

[thorny cedar]

bcs even in rl pumps got a max pressure

[viral ravine]

I imagine but surely they can handle like two pumps next to eachother, no?

[thorny cedar]

if the scnd pump pumps 3bar it pumps 3 bar or 43.5 psi

no matter what the pump befor does does it not?

[viral ravine]

True

It wont just turn that into 6 bars

[thorny cedar]

pump would break

[median heath]

Me describing a Friday night.

[viral ravine]

Elaborate

[median heath]

Context about not going to 6 different bars in one night.

[viral ravine]

as a person who deals with pressure problems i should have known better lol

[thorny cedar]

i am waiting for someone with nitrogen pump headlift probmens

[median heath]

You'll be waiting forever.

Many a Nitrogen headdown problem though 😉

[viral ravine]

Guys my nitrogen extractor keeps jamming because of full pipes help guys

[neon nexus]

(The "drawing" is not detailed)
i have 5 pipes coming in with a total of 2700 crude oil per minute
that i want to split in 10 different pipes going to 10 lines of 9 refs
and i thought it would be good to first let all of the oil go through a few buffers just for a failsafe ig
would this work ?

[median heath]

Delete all buffers.

[neon nexus]

i didnt build any yet

[wind spade]

just split each pipe into two?

or even better - have each pipe go to a set of refineries that use all the oil from that pipe

[neon nexus]

i have 4 pipes coming with 600 oil per minutes and one with 300
each lines of refs need 270 per minute

i already built the refs xD, idk why i went with that

[wind spade]

don't build refineries so that they need 270 if you have 300 and 600

build refineries so that they need 300

[neon nexus]

yup, ig ill add one at the end of each line

[median heath]

Look if you're going to use logic and make rational points, no one can debate you.

😉😉

[neon nexus]

ig i forgot my input when i built the refs lol

[vapid gorge]

don't assume because that indicator is filling that the fluid is going all the way to that point

[median heath]

@rustic patio are you around? Could use your help graphing something (send me a DM if you are available!)

[rustic patio]

im here

what do u need help with?

[median heath]

If she can convert the graph the rest of you are in for a treat 😄

[rustic patio]

i think i might be done in a bit?

oh nvm i forgor something i think

[glossy wagon]

which option has better as power consumption - i hadnot unlocked Minner Mk3 yet
a- one Mk 2 miner over clocked 250% (pure node) and one miner Mk 2 at 97.097% (normal node) to have in total 774.776 iron ore
b - one Mk 2 miner over clocked at 200% and 2 miner mk 2 noraml (100%) and one minner at (45.6%)
c- give me better option .... i have 4 node normal and 1 pure

[median heath]

No rush, thank you for trying at all tbh.

[median heath]

If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong.

[rustic patio]

i need to like, step it over by one if its higher than the other

[median heath]

That curve looks a lot sharper than the one the sheet appears to have

[rustic patio]

this is what i have so far

[median heath]

ceil = ?

[wind spade]

round up

[rustic patio]

it rounds up to nearest integer

[median heath]

Me out here thinking that would be "rnd"...

[rustic patio]

rnd sounds like random to me

[wind spade]

research and development

[rustic patio]

anyway im thinking too much like a programmer, i dont know how to phrase this in math terms

ill try

[glossy wagon]

i another question regarding power
1 generator at (250%) consume the same material as 3 generators (one of them at 50%) , yes or no ?

[median heath]

That's randirange or randfrange 😉

[median heath]

No, because 50 * 3 =/= 250

Oh wait, only 1 at 50, then yes.

[glossy wagon]

thanks alot ... it may save me space in tide area

[median heath]

When it comes to overclocking generators, it is completely linear.

[median heath]

I overclock pretty much all Fuel generators to save space.

Coal gens aren't worth the shards imo.

[glossy wagon]

coal generator is just to early stage till we reach to Fuel

[median heath]

Fuel is just early stage till you reach Nuclear.

[glossy wagon]

Nuclear is too complicated,
i put my old save on hold till i learn more about it, because i like to run everything at 100%, which i can`t

[wind spade]

nuclear is super simple

[median heath]

Complicated how?

[glossy wagon]

if u have any guides to watch or read i will be thankful

[wind spade]

when you unlock it, it requires uranium + 2 items you either already have or will need soon anyway

[median heath]

No guides required.
You build it the same way you build everything else.

Pick your target output production and solve backwards from there.

[wind spade]

not much complicated 🤔
needs encased beams (you 100% already have them), electromagnetic rod (you have them or will build them anyway) and uranium that's processed once. Not sure where the "complication" lies

[kind cairn]

but unlike the oil waste we just dump into the atmosphere (with no consequence ||/s||), nuclear waste must be dealt with :kek:

[median heath]

Uranium is waste-free as you can process it into Pu rods and then just sink those.

[kind cairn]

theres the extra step that might be daunting fellow pioneer Mok

[glossy wagon]

maybe i wasnot thinking or i was tired when i first saw the Uranuim
in Satisfactory Calculator

i keep going through loop and that what made me though it is complicated

[viral ravine]

Oil waste is just smoke (if we are talking fuel gens) uranium is a barrel of stuff, seems reasonable enough

[median heath]

Use Tools.

[glossy wagon]

I will

Thanks fellow pioneers

[burnt musk]

ok I think I messed up my math somewhere. I have a pure oil node overclocked at 600 per min and a refinery uses 30 per min. so 600/30 is 20 and that's that; however I am running 24 refinery on that one node with no lag of resource. im i just over thinking it or is my math wrong?

[vapid gorge]

if you flooded the system for a bit it'll run on what's there already

you could also just not be noticing the yellow lights

[median heath]

Screenshot of setup?

(Also yeah, how long have you left it running?)

[median heath]

Oh good ADA the buffers...

[burnt musk]

its hard to see but its a strait pipe from the node to the frist half. half way down that pipe theres a cross pipe that takes it to the other side

the towers in the background are what the refinery are outputting to

and its been running like this since i threw the switch. now idid let all refinerys reach max cap before i turned them on but thats about it

[median heath]

1. Delete all buffers.
2. If you're not feeding enough the system will eventually begin to stutter. Just the reality of the situation.

[burnt musk]

copy

[median heath]

Fluid buffers' only helpful use is in conjunction with fluid trains.

Otherwise they either cause issues or do nothing. They never help.
If you like them for aesthetics, just clip the pipe through them so it looks like they are being used while they aren't.

[burnt musk]

now when you say buffers you mean that liquid storage towers?

if so there are no buffers between the node and all 26 refinerys

[median heath]

Fluid Buffer and Industrial Fluid Buffer is the name of the buildings.

[burnt musk]

copy then yes there are no buffers

the refinerys are just outputting to buffers for storage

[median heath]

I'm still going to say "delete the buffers" 😄

Fluid doesn't need to be stored, it needs to be used.

[burnt musk]

in therory i am outputting 540 oil and only consuming 360 of it at the same time

i have a 6:1 ratio for oil to fuel.

ill give the buffers another look and see if i can rework them

thanks

[median heath]

👍

[true junco]

I put as many buffers as possible... just for Sevr. 😆

[median heath]

Hey, I explained the scenario in which I would use buffers with pictures the other day.

[oblique hollow]

I mostly use buffers in flow smoothening filters

i just like having smooth flow sometimes

[dense zinc]

How good is Bard's estimated production recommendations?

Wondering if I should use it in the future

[wind spade]

why... are there copper ingots?

and screws?

also all of this depends on how much of those you actually use

[dense zinc]

Because I asked for them

[wind spade]

wait is this AI?

please don't use AI for this

[dense zinc]

Idk how much of each should I produce, and I don't want to build an entire factory, then be like oops too much and destroy it

and wise versa

Well it's deffo better than my brain and faster than reddit 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

build small amount, if you find yourself running out often, build another factory

[median heath]

Horrible.

[median heath]

Oh did you not see my conditional?

[dense zinc]

It's early game though so its very little

[median heath]

Yes, I read the entire context before replying.

[wind spade]

you need small amount all game

[dense zinc]

So then its too much

Well I did run out of nodes immediately and got no vehicles 🤷‍♂️ so I guess ur right

[wind spade]

it's... not anything

it all depends on your own usage of those resources

[median heath]

In what universe are those numbers "too much"?

[dense zinc]

If its not too little and not too much then i guess the recommendation was perfect

[median heath]

No?

[dense zinc]

Yeah i dont see your point

not too little, not too much, yet horrible

[median heath]

Where did I say it was not too little?

[dense zinc]

then whats the problem

[wind spade]

asking AI to play your game

[dense zinc]

this is why I never ask community either

its simply not helpful. unlike AI

[median heath]

I would say it is too little.

[dense zinc]

ok good ill build more but ill need 5000 kilometer belt

[wind spade]

is it better to get proper advice or randomly generated wrong one?

[median heath]

That isn't possible given the map is only 7.4km x 8km

[dense zinc]

i have never got proper advice from reddit or discord 🤷‍♂️

so I guess its better than nothing

[wind spade]

I gave it two times already

[dense zinc]

yeah anyways i got no vehicles and no nodes

[median heath]

You can easily go much higher than those numbers from any starting area without needing vehicles.

[dense zinc]

🤷‍♂️

was mistake joinng this server ill continue using bard as long as it seems to work for myself

[median heath]

Bye.

[dense zinc]

at least I save time and braincells

[wind spade]

and get randomly generated bad advice

[dense zinc]

ChatGPT is random generator, which is exactly why I don't use it

[wind spade]

all AIs are text generators

[dense zinc]

Bard is just advanced google assistant using google search

ChatGPT doesn't just generate random text but the "facts" are randomized as well

[wind spade]

well given it told you to produce ingots...

[dense zinc]

1+1 could be 2 or 72

[wind spade]

which are useless to make

[median heath]

You don't understand.. THIS AI is different.
It doesn't use code.
Therefore it isn't bound by the same rules as other AIs.

😉

[dense zinc]

Actually, i need ingots to get wires and cables, dumbass

who said I store ingots

[wind spade]

then you need wires, not ingots

[dense zinc]

idc? i can read

at least I can read the proper lines of the sheet it seems

you get tangled on the ingots while I skip it

i actually didnt even notice it at first since i wasnt looking for that information

[wind spade]

if you're looking for "production early game", then I assume it's production to storage

[dense zinc]

ur dumb

[wind spade]

ok

[dense zinc]

this is why i never ask community

they are humen and dont understand questions

and i have already searched whole reddit, didnt get answer

[wind spade]

because there's no "answer" to your question

[dense zinc]

well, everyone has different answer so there's no such a thing as good answer

[wind spade]

it depends on YOU

[dense zinc]

well i will change that

[median heath]

Thinking a computer understands a human question better than a human does... 😂

[dense zinc]

i cant know what i need so someone's gotta figure it out for me

[median heath]

Oh that is a horrible approach to life..

[dense zinc]

I dont compare a stupid game to life

[median heath]

1. Satis isn't stupid.
2. The principle of what you said applies to everything. So it isn't comparing the game itself, it's looking at the principle you put forward and analyzing it by itself.

[dense zinc]

Cry about it

[viral ravine]

Imagine asking for advice if a guide written by AI is good but then losing your temper when you recieve the advice you asked for

[vapid gorge]

What asinine bs have I missed now?

[wind spade]

"hey I asked AI how much should I produce, is it good advice?"
"it says to produce screws and ingots, not good imo"
"it's good tho"
"also amounts depend on your usage of those materials"
"ur dumb"

etc.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that was an interesting scroll. Example of why I steer my students away from chat bots

[median heath]

*assinine 😉

[wind spade]

a lot of things change when you stop thinking about it as "AI" and start thinking about it as "text generator"

like sure, it's useful in some cases, but 95% of people use it for purpose it wasn't made for

[median heath]

A lot of things change when you start thinking 😉

[vapid gorge]

You just love ass 😛

Funnily I didn’t get a spell error typing it

[unreal saddle]

Did someone say ass?

[frosty owl]

Yeah, Tool-maker, how can you not understand how production lines work! >.>

[wind spade]

I mean I don't really understand that I guess, based on how often tools just decide to do random weird stuff

[frosty owl]

Glares at fine concrete

[wind spade]

that's some fine recipe tho

wait, it doesn't do fine by default imo

it's third 🤔 rubber -> wet -> fine -> normal

[median heath]

Fine Concrete 😭

Rubber Concrete my beloved.