math-and-meta

[somber folio]

It's giving you an exact number, tell it to make 10 per minute

The number will flatten out and it will be easier to manage

[dense nebula]

Then i need to know how much of what i need

[snow dove]

place the final machines and work backwards from there

[dense crescent]

its still weird numbers

[wind spade]

yeah, first decide how much you want to make

[deft lichen]

10 will give you ugly numbers, work with multiples of 45 or 81

[true junco]

Definitely looks like you are going for some oddball quantities.

Just personal prefference but i try to find at least some machine numbers in my builds that are whole numbers. But obviously you dont have to do that.

[deft lichen]

9 or 13.5 will be much cleaner than 10

[somber folio]

Ah I see why, you have the recipe that makes 2.812 per minute, its the hardest of the 3 to setup

[wind spade]

harder just change clock speed

[somber folio]

standard makes 2 per min and the alt does 3.75

[dense crescent]

which is more ressource efficient

[somber folio]

Your recipe gets more bang for buck on the frames

[dense crescent]

I found out this one to be the most ressource efficient

[dense nebula]

I just build space elevatar so how much of what do i need for a good amount of this elevator stuff and New stuff. Bc i cant to much bc i dont have infinite iron reccourses

[snow dove]

you have functionally infinite iron resources

you can get more than 70k iron per minute

[dense crescent]

which recipe do you recommend ?

[true junco]

Yeah. Iron is second most abundant after water.

[dense crescent]

as I don't have access to trains yet or any kind of ressource rig

[somber folio]

When making my cubes I ran the standard

My 2nd choice option would be the one that uses rubber

[wind spade]

only you can decide how much you want to make

[dense nebula]

can someone just join , tell me what is the best thing to build and then i build it?

[wind spade]

best is very much subjective

[dense crescent]

the standard is way more ressource burning

[somber folio]

I can if you want

[true junco]

There is no such thing as most resource efficient as a whole. Rather efficient for certain resources. For instance i wouldnt advize focusing on minimizing iron consumption since that will end up consuming more of other resources and all other resources are rarer.

[somber folio]

Check rubber recipe, 3.75 per min

[dense nebula]

yes pls

[somber folio]

@dense crescent IMO if you want the least amount of work I'd go normal recipe because of FMF

[wind spade]

FMF factory will make it's own HMFs

[dense nebula]

do you have time now?

[somber folio]

Ya

[true junco]

For me. My Time is the most limited and most expensive resource i can apply to the game.

Second is "capacity of my computer to run the game" which is a more complicated metric that can be approximated in IRL currency. Which is again... my time.

[somber folio]

Ik but if its his first time making HMF's it may be difficult down the road if he has a awkward number

[wind spade]

ankward number doesn't matter as the production goes only to storage

[somber folio]

Why does the number come out to 2.812?

[oblique hollow]

truncated

45/16

2.8125

[true junco]

If its the first time building HMFs i would figure out what he needs to do to run 1 manufacturer making default HMF at 100%. And work backwards from there. Then he can duplicate that. Or duplicate back until he reaches an underclocked machine that can feed both lines if the rate is raised. Repeat Ad nauseum.

[true junco]

Almost all the non-whole numbers you see in production rates are N +n/16

[oblique hollow]

most rates in this game are some big number divided by either 2, 4, 8 16 or in rare cases 32

[somber folio]

That's why factors of 12 I find so easy to use?

[true junco]

I dont remember any that are n/32 off hand.

[true junco]

Partly. Also because 12 is a factor of 60 and time is base 60.

[oblique hollow]

because the 16s also fit those well so you can pick your poison there

60/32 is the same as 30/16 so its pretty whatever

[somber folio]

Personally I don't use a recipe if any number is not flat, .25, .5, or .75

[true junco]

Thats silly

[oblique hollow]

so multiples or fractions of 4

[wind spade]

personally I just clock things to match

[oblique hollow]

any numbers in the game can usually be "made pretty" by just multiplying by 4.

[wind spade]

no reason to hunt for "only clean" numbers, when you can make the numbers clean by clocking

[true junco]

Eventually you get to a point where there are no recipies going forward that are 100% whole numbers.

Redefine your numbers as based on milli-seconds. Then all base recipe production numbers become whole numbers. Lol

No wait. Tenths of a millisecond. Anyways thats silly...

[oblique hollow]

just multiply everything by 10000

measure everything in MMTPA

[true junco]

1.8125/sec = 18125/(s×10^-4)

[oblique hollow]

1812.5/ksec

[wind spade]

good old kilosecond

[oblique hollow]

gotta use megaseconds

[true junco]

Ksec=1000sec. So that would ve 1812.5/ksec

[oblique hollow]

1812500/Msec

[true junco]

Wtf is MMTPA?

[oblique hollow]

million metric tons per annum

[true junco]

Nice.

The mine I interned at made 2.72MMTPA of salt then...

[oblique hollow]

supplying the world of online gamers I see

[summer flare]

Yes. This splitter/merger combo will give the output ratios you want.

[median heath]

The one where ppm wasn't shown.

[somber folio]

Whats the setup for 2 random belts to 3 equal belts?

[median heath]

Manifold.

[somber folio]

I have this so far

[quartz lava]

ty i already got something but yours seems more simplified

[quartz lava]

do you have a certain methode to calculate this stuffM

[median heath]

You can always just google "Satisfactory <first number> to <second number> balancer" and you will immediately get configurations.

[quartz lava]

well its not really a balancer

its more like a splitter with certain output ratio

[neon dew]

welp that will take a while

[hard mural]

How can I split belt to uneven outputs with a splitter?
(for example - I need to split 5 into 2 and 3)

[boreal summit]

First question is: Why are you needing to split them this way?

[median heath]

Manifold.

[thorny cedar]

the numbers on my next rubber look amazing

[hard mural]

I need 3 reiforced iron plate for modular frame and 2 for smart plating

[median heath]

You can do that with 1 splitter.

[snow dove]

1 splitter and some patience

[opaque moat]

Does anyone have tips for trains u8 im trying to package water move it then unpack it i have 14 lines of 600 packed how many trains/cars should i use to be efficient?

[median heath]

Less patience if you use a smarter splitter 😉

[hard mural]

1 splitter do that wacky

[median heath]

If you're on U8 -> #satisfactory-experimental

[median heath]

You want a 3:2 split.
You receive a perfect 3:2 split.
How is that whacky?

[boreal summit]

Okay, belt coming from RIP assemblers goes to one splitter. One output goes to mod frames, one goes to smart plating. Smart plating will fill up and extras will automatically overflow to mod frames.

Once a machine fills up completely, that belt backs up and the splitter can't shove items that direction anymore so it shoves them all in the other direction

As long as you're putting 5 RIPs per minute down that belt, both machines will get what they need and keep producing at 100% uptime

It just takes a while to balance out unless you fill each machine by hand to start

[hard mural]

So solution is - just wait couple of hours, okay

[boreal summit]

If you don't explain how/why manifolds work and what they are, anyone will think it's whacky at first glance.

[boreal summit]

Not even that long in most cases

[hard mural]

Will there be splitters in future chapters in which it will be possible to change the sorting type from round robin to something else?

[boreal summit]

Yes

Well, sort of

[median heath]

Faster way to do it with 1 splitter is if you have a smart splitter.
Send every plate to the side that needs 2 and the overflow to the side that needs 3.
Lower side will fill faster than if you waited on a normal splitter.

[median heath]

Again, as we've had this conversation before, I don't assume they aren't smart enough to logic it out.
If they have followup questions I have answers.

[median heath]

Smart Splitters are available in T1-2.

[vapid gorge]

or hand fill stacks of items into the machines when you start it up

[hard mural]

"aren't smart enough" is not the case, because I asked this after I saw how uneven the spread was for about 3 hours.

[boreal summit]

The way you phrase it however seems like that's all the information you're willing to give out at the time.

[snow dove]

double check you’re actually producing 5 rips per minute

also it’ll take 200minutes to backup properly not including the belts

(given you don’t prefeed)

[median heath]

I'm always going to talk the way I talk.
So you can poke it every time and get the exact same response every time, or 🤷‍♂️

[snow dove]

should be good then

[boreal summit]

I was only responding to your question ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[snow dove]

also i didn’t literally mean if the machine was set to 5 rips per minute, i meant if the machine was working as it should be, which it is

[hard mural]

Perhaps the length of the belts ruined something at first, but now everything looks +-ok

[boreal summit]

And yeah, if they're consuming exactly 5 between two machines and you're producing exactly 5, then it will take longer to balance out

[snow dove]

more belt past the splitter means longer fill time as the buffer increases in size

[boreal summit]

Also that yes

[hard mural]

fair

[snow dove]

you’re sending an extra .5 rips per minute to the machine requiring 2 so you can then figure out the buffer size, then divide by .5 to get the fill time

[hard mural]

I think I will leave it as it is, because after unlocking miner mk2, there must be some rebuilding of this mess anyway.

[boreal summit]

Yeah, when climbing the unlock tower it's best to just do whatever's needed to make it work because you'll probably abandon or dismantle everything by the time you reach Phase 4 anyway.

[hard mural]

One more Q, does this materials is just for Space Elevator?

Description suggests yes, but wanted to clarify

[median heath]

Yes.

[boreal summit]

Those parts are only used for Space Elevator directly, or used in further Space Elevator parts in later phases.

[median heath]

@hard mural if you want the total amount of each you need I can give it to you.

[hard mural]

No, thanks.

[prisma kraken]

woohoo, i'm making baby cubes again

[twilit blade]

one thing to keep in mind, space elevator parts of previous phases are always components of parts in later phases. so smart plating for example, you'll need to make quite a bit more for more complex components

[cloud geyser]

in the last q&a it was said that mk2 pipes don't use their full 600m3 capacity. Is it better to use two mk1 pipes when you need exact flow rate ?

[snow dove]

mk2 pipes can achieve a full 600m^3/min capacity, it’s just a little finicky

[oblique hollow]

if you need 600/min, consider instead not needing 600/min

[worn cove]

Always The best option

[cloud geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-well-fine-ok-whoops-oops-gif-20212592

guess I'll bring a bit more then

[oblique hollow]

what i mean by that is that you can use mk2, but divide your pipes up so you can transport like 500/min in the mk2

that still saves you space

Unless you have a single machine machine needs 600/min, you can always circumvent this

[vapid gorge]

if you build carefully you can easily reach 600

[leaden depot]

I’ve tried so many times, but never been able to fully saturate max fuel generators with 600. The usual suggestion is making a loop, but for me, that just moves the starvation to the center rather than the end

[vapid gorge]

there could be any number of small problems - if you want to share some overhead shots of the pipe layout I could help trouble shoot if you like

[leaden depot]

I don’t have that setup anymore. I repartitioned to have 400 in each, and it seems better.

[vapid gorge]

it can matter somewhat but possibly you fixed something while rejiggered things around. If you do have a pipe issue feel free to ping me, I tend to check discord at least once a day

[mystic moon]

Tried solid steel > steel screw > copper rotor for the first time, that might be my default now

[thorny cedar]

@median heath first i would like to know how i could sushi this numbers /3 bcs 3 floors :/

[median heath]

Lemme get my old person zoom in glasses.

[thorny cedar]

200 HMFS

alt steel pipe conc indu beam rec

[median heath]

First thing I notice is that the Concrete amount isn't possible.

[thorny cedar]

1466 wet conc 2400 pipes 3600 solid steel 2400 iron

yea its not i round up and overflow

[median heath]

Second thing is just "Injection Manifold"

All things are possible with sushi.

[thorny cedar]

hm i could indeed injection manifold sushi

[median heath]

But I have to go to class now, sorry 😭

[thorny cedar]

its not that any of this need to be siphoned of or is rare or any

[torn valley]

do I need a second pump between the fluid buffers?

[wind spade]

you don't need buffers

[frosty owl]

To completely fill the top one, yes. Iirc the buffers are more than 10m tall each

(Headlift is needed for fluid to fill/reach higher inside a buffer)

[torn valley]

why is that? the fluid input from the trainstation is probably not very consistent. I'd think buffers would help with that

[wind spade]

if it's from train station, then it doesn't help in the configuration you have

something like this should be used instead

(and then merge the two pipes to the resulting one)

[wind spade]

yeah thanks, didn't find the screenshot so had to do horrible paint

[median heath]

For the output station just flip the pump the other direction.

[shy kindle]

how long does it take a lizard doggo to "produce" one item ?

[wind spade]

ask in one channel please

[prisma kraken]

so, i'm not a big one for balancers because the game doesn't want you to solve problems factorio-style, but i had an 'interesting' problem of moving 2 train cars carrying 450 items/min to a destination where they'd be consumed by 2 manifolds, one requiring 375/min, and another consuming 525/min, there's several ways of solving the problem, but after trying a few more complicated ones, i realized this simple contraption does the balancing correctly:

(not sure if you can even call it a proper balancer)

[wind spade]

containers don't split equally tho

[prisma kraken]

they do in this case

[wind spade]

they don't, they have priority on one belt (pretty much at random)

also about your problem - is it possible to modify the belts at source?

[prisma kraken]

yep, good thing that causes the line from the other container to slow down

its two lines of 450 rubber coming from recycled loops

i mean, this IS a solution to my problem that works

[wind spade]

I guess it's a bit late, but can't you make 525 in one and 375 in another? 😄

[prisma kraken]

and that's going to be less compilcated than 2 mergers on isc outputs?

[wind spade]

yes, because that's literally just change of "how many machines you merge to the belts"

same amount of belts, just differently connected

[prisma kraken]

you mean the ones looping back into other machines to make plastic in a recycled loop?

its 2 merges

[thorny cedar]

other than that

[prisma kraken]

i'm just sharing it because it's a dirt simple solution to the problem that avoids doing the split & merge

[thorny cedar]

make a 75 split from one belt and merge it with the other one

its a 60 belt and 1/4 of a 60 belt

[wind spade]

you can replace the container with a splitter to make it much more reliable

[prisma kraken]

the point is I don't need to do any of that, this works!

[thorny cedar]

im just saying

🙂

[prisma kraken]

both containers output at 780/min to one of the two lines, and at the end, the lines back up

[wind spade]

you said it's 375 and 525

[prisma kraken]

yes, there's two output belts from the containers, each is 780

well 4 belts out of the containers, but they're going into one of 2 780 belts

[wind spade]

I guess if you say 780 belt I see it as "belt that has 780/min items on it", not "belt that allows 780/min (mk5)"

[prisma kraken]

it ends up evenly distributing the product, I had to try it out to convince myself of it

well, unevenly distributing the product, but draining the containers at the same rate

which is what i was concerned about

and yeah, i could have overengineered a perfect split on the sending side, but taking 450 and pulling 75 off in another direction, while not difficult, would have been more work

at least +1 splitter or merger

[thorny cedar]

one smart split and 2 normals yea :c +*2 merger

[prisma kraken]

thats a (2split) -> (3split)-> merge -> merge

i don't trust that overflow with buffers the size of what you have with trains will allow enough back pressure to get things evened out

you literally have to wait for the sending+recieving stations+isc's and the train cars to fill up

[thorny cedar]

you could split 450 in 1/6th thats 75 to yea

[prisma kraken]

yeah, a 6-way 1+5 split is 2 mergers and 2 splitters

[thorny cedar]

yep

• the merger to the other line

[prisma kraken]

it's a solution, won't discount that, but i kind of wanted to solve this on the recieving side for space reasons

i was thinking i'd need a 2<->2 proper balancer

and i find them inelegant, which i think many here do as well

[thorny cedar]

but it should not matter if you balance on the intake or the outtake

im just saying

the numbers should add up to the same

[prisma kraken]

as just a point of principal, i like overflow stuff to be done as close to machines as possible for precision reasons

[thorny cedar]

the items that dont get into the drone bcs the train brings 780 falt on unload means the system behind just overflows slowly 🙂

[prisma kraken]

i believe w/o definite empirical proof, it ends up being more exact

[thorny cedar]

it just takes exponential longer to balance 😄

[mystic moon]

It's mathematically provable that it doens't make a difference

[prisma kraken]

until someone proves the math doesn't sufficiently capture the problem

[thorny cedar]

so timmy got 500 apples 490 go to his grandma 10 he can take for himself how much apple will he have for himself? 😄

[prisma kraken]

when timmy is in the act of counting the apples and giving him to his mother, how many apples does timmy have?

[thorny cedar]

in the end he will always have 10 bcs his grandma only ever want 490

[mystic moon]

Grandma's hungry

[thorny cedar]

even while timmy is counting the outcome wont change

[prisma kraken]

500-490 = 10 assumes an instantaneous transfer, and that things can't be in an indeterminate or transitional state

[thorny cedar]

if you machines consume 490 and you provide 500 you will have 10 left

[mystic moon]

That doesn't mean that over time the result won't be effectively the same

[thorny cedar]

bcs the items wont vanish into thin air

[mystic moon]

Maybe for the first few minutes you'll be more consistent but over time it won't matter

[prisma kraken]

so, lets take a real-world example

[thorny cedar]

more like hours with trains

[prisma kraken]

i get paid tomorrow, and i expect 5 dollars to be put into my bank account from that, today i've bought several things that total $4.50, had a balance of 3 dollars in my account previously, so that should keep my account in the black, right?

[mystic moon]

The thing you're not accounting for is that you can't have a negative balance of parts

So you may not have the 5 dollars when you want it the first time, but it'll be there next time before you want it

[prisma kraken]

my math worked, but my mathematical model wasn't correct

[thorny cedar]

i cant follow your numbers but if you have -2.5 in the first month and get +5 total every month you will come out to +5 every month after month 1? bcs you need to pay your ded?

[prisma kraken]

i'm just saying that things are often subtly more complicated than just +x -y = x-y

[mystic moon]

Sure but that doesn't make me incorrect

[thorny cedar]

its not rly

[prisma kraken]

i've run into problems like this over & over again in engineering

like the math works, but you weren't accounting for something

[thorny cedar]

ok if you make 600 items per minute and your facility consumes 500

where goes the other 100 than?

yes your train arrives the first few cycles with 600 but they more or less go into the machines

ones they filled up the 600 start backing up like normal manifolds overflow

[prisma kraken]

99% of the time things work correctly

[thorny cedar]

and they go into the bin but only when the items reach the split

[prisma kraken]

there are really outlier cases though

[thorny cedar]

it just takes long

but idk how i can prove to you that 1=1

except telling you 1=1

im not smart enough for that

bcs you need big brain to explain this

[prisma kraken]

i don't know how you'll accept that in some cases you're model isn't correct

[thorny cedar]

if you boil it down not to 500 items per minute but to 1 its still the same

and math is always correct

[prisma kraken]

except when it isn't describing the problem exactly

[thorny cedar]

i know what you mean with trains

that it looks like it does not fill up

[prisma kraken]

newton's laws of motion aren't correct

[thorny cedar]

but it just takes more time bcs of trains

[prisma kraken]

that's math, right?

[thorny cedar]

explain?

[prisma kraken]

newton's laws of motion descibe things like cannonballs flying in a parabola very exactly

what happens on a windy day?

[thorny cedar]

wth

[prisma kraken]

there's always hidden variables in a system that any mathematical model doesn't account for

[thorny cedar]

are you talking about

[prisma kraken]

math is never perfect

[thorny cedar]

what variable is in your facility that eats items?

and its not a variable if its windy outside and the canon ball swirfs to the right

[prisma kraken]

because it all imperfectly describes systems that are more complicated than we can comprehend

[thorny cedar]

thats exactly what newtons law of motion trys to describe

every force has a counter part

he was wrong about gravity

bcs its not a force but thats a different thing

[prisma kraken]

no, he was very right about gravity

he was wrong about the fabric of space-time, assuming it was a uniform euclidean space

[thorny cedar]

gravity is not a force gravity is the acceleration of bodys bcs of the stretching of space

but newton could never know 16 smth

other then taht

it still applies and will aply

[prisma kraken]

um, the standard model of physics would tend to disagree with you about gravity being a force

[thorny cedar]

i said its no force

[prisma kraken]

god knows, people spend lifetimes studying it as one of the 4 fundamental forces of matter

[thorny cedar]

yea and you telling me a canon ball on windy days destroys newton and you machines consume 600 even if they only consume 500 idk what i can say can we stop that if what you did works for you good 🙂

[prisma kraken]

the 'meta' that i'm getting at is math describes models of reality perfectly

so calculations end up being exact with whatever model you use, but they don't always end up modeling the actual outcomes because the model was imperfect to begin with

[thorny cedar]

but i can say i have the same things appearing with my trains

especialy if i dont balance items and just split them and send them off

bcs first one train will overflow but after that

[prisma kraken]

you're not going to end up losing items, no

barring far-out game bugs

[thorny cedar]

he will still come and empty the system every time he comes

and itll take much much longer to fill the scnd facility

and while the first container fills the scnd will stay empty

[prisma kraken]

but sometimes there's one more item that should have made it into a train buffer before a lockout that should have been there in order to keep a machine from pausing or something

[thorny cedar]

so even if it looks at first glance it overflows already

itll take so much longer

[thorny cedar]

yea but the trainbuffer will take the item anyways and it gets delivered in the next run as 1 buffer item

so to speak

[prisma kraken]

theorectically, that little thing could propagate as an error

[thorny cedar]

i belt balanced my npp all the uran

prefilled the other stuff

it took 1 1/2 hour for the last plant to have a small hicup where the fuel rod came a tick later

after that it is a buffer rod

and that where just belts not trains

and no i had not a single drop ever after

i monitor it quite frequently even after 500 hours online

[prisma kraken]

now, here's the thing, lets say that instead you're moving a full 780 belt via train (which you shouldn't do), but the train lockout rounds wrong and doesn't have that one extra item in the transfered materials

...on the recieiving side, will that 1 extra item ever get to the destination?

[thorny cedar]

yea bcs based on setup the next train will fill up one item faster

therefor he will be one item faster at the delivery port

[prisma kraken]

no, you'll just end up with an extra item in the buffer that never transfers

[thorny cedar]

if you set it to wait until full/empty like i do with all of them

thats why i opted for less efficient single cart trains

[prisma kraken]

because the recieving side can't ever transfer 781 items/min to catch up

[thorny cedar]

for low quantity high quality

[thorny cedar]

no *the belt will still be 780 items

until the train has the next time missed an item

and brings it with the delivery after

you still got a buffer

[prisma kraken]

it would take some work to engineer an example, but i've seen stuff like that with the game, just cases where something will never catch up

it happens, makes no sense when it does, but it does happen

[thorny cedar]

i never saw that but it would be nice to know

if you come across smth like that let me know 😦

and i dont speak about floats

[prisma kraken]

i'd have to dig around for it, but i created an mf blueprint once that just never worked at 100% until i changed the belting

[thorny cedar]

plz ffs we all know they dont work 😄

[prisma kraken]

maybe it was iron oscilators instead, i can't remember, but i was using a smart splitter for wire output from a constructor

and the wire was pathologically being delivered to the wrong machine at the wrong time

somehow it just hit some sort of harmonic timing for things always not being in the right place, i think due to the internal buffer of the smart splitter

i just changed the belting around in the bp and it worked w/o problems

[brittle iron]

ok soo i have 5 / Min Re-plates but modular frames need 3 / Min whats the best way to do this under clock or complicate it

[wind spade]

why do you have 5 if you need 3? 😄

[urban stone]

what happened there

[prisma kraken]

make 15 rip/min for 10 mf's/min

[brittle iron]

because the base machine outputs 5 per min

[wind spade]

then clock it to make 3

[brittle iron]

gotta make more machines then

cause the world i had ith someone, we had 3 nodes outputting to the max, without any under or over clock

[prisma kraken]

its a factory building game, kinda goes w/o saying that you're suppose to build more factory 😉

[brittle iron]

touche

[wind spade]

if you need 3, make 3 (and clock accordingly)
if you need more, build more

[prisma kraken]

but yeah, snark asside, if you're just not making enough rips, clock the mf assembler down to match

[thorny cedar]

leave it at 5 smart split it off save the 2 in a container for later

[brittle iron]

dont got the smart ones yet

[undone hull]

you can unlock them at the MAM, may help a lot 🙂

catérieum branch iirc

[brittle iron]

OH neat!

[prisma kraken]

smart splitters can be unlocked very early in the mam with some effort, and that effort is really worth it

[thorny cedar]

you can just use a normal split sure it splits 2.5 and 2.5 but if the container is full it provides 3 to the machine anyways

[brittle iron]

the spliter will always send 3 to left then to the right everytime

whjat if i just made 2 machines or is that under efficient

[thorny cedar]

the smartspliiter sends as much as possible to the "any" or specific item side

and the rest goes to the "overflow" side

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Smart_Splitter

[vapid gorge]

if you're making enough for the system it'll self balance over time. It's called a manifold

For example if you needed to send like... 12 parts per minute to 5 different machines - if you just have a line of machines with splitters feeding the 12 down the line, after a little while everything will work at 100%

[brittle iron]

oh k

[vapid gorge]

do you get why that is though?

[brittle iron]

aint gonna lie, no, my brain hurts everytime i play

[vapid gorge]

thats ok!
So just real quick, like in that example in my comment

if you had 12 parts per min going down a line, split to the right to the first machien then down and then to the right to the next and so on

The first split would send half to the machine and half forward right? so it'd feed 6 to the machine, more than it needs, right?

[brittle iron]

ig

[vapid gorge]

ok so what happens when that first machine gets full and won't accept more items?

[brittle iron]

there is a a back log to the split and fill the other one instead?

[vapid gorge]

bingo, more gets sent down to the rest.
It takes a while sometimes but eventually every machine will run at 100% 🙂

to avoid 'spin up time' you can stuff stacks of parts into all the machines at the start if you like but isn't needed. Though sometimes if you want te test a complicated set up it's good to do

oh, and if you're doing anything with wire and screws? they have GIANT stack sizes of 500 and can take a long time to Spin Up. Good opportunity to hand fill at the start

[median heath]

Always prefeed your manifolds.

[vapid gorge]

Sevrahn hates Yellow Lights on machines a lot.

It's not mandatory to fill them up no matter what he says 😛

[median heath]

Those 2 things aren't entirely related though.

Prefeeding is just about skipping wait times.

[vapid gorge]

but not everyone needs or wants to skip it

[median heath]

Assuming everything is spooled and working as intended, yellow lights mean you fucked up. Go fix it.

[vapid gorge]

for example I'm often happy to set it up and go do something else and come back and check

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, it's why I mentioned it's good to do if you want to test a complicated set up

[median heath]

If you want to test, you build a cheat world with all the fixings like free power, free build, free fly 😄

[vapid gorge]

Yes Sev, but I live in a world where someone might have forgottento connect up a belt or a cable somewhere 😛

[median heath]

Skill issue

||And the reason I save before bringing any build online. So if an issue presents, I can reload and fix it before saving again and bringing it online again.||
||As far as the game knows, all of my builds are perfection on the first try every time 😉😉||

Believe me, getting 1500 water/min on a truck route did not happen on the first try 😂

[thorny cedar]

thats just a restriction you put on yourself

nobody said itll be easy

[true junco]

Most of this game is self inflicted parameters.

Aka. "Choices"

[median heath]

It wasn't difficult.
Just a matter of trial and error for how much excess had to be pre-buffered in the truck stops so the route didn't ever have an empty point.

Turns out the answer was about 5600.
But the station holds only 4800. So I had to hold the extra in my own inventory, turn the outpost on, then run over to the truck stop to reload the extra as space opened up until the truck made its first full loop.

[grand talon]

is it more efficient to use the foundry recipes or refinery recipes for ore proccessing?

[boreal imp]

Pure Ore/Ingot the Refinery recipes are the best, but they use a lot more power so depends what kind of efficiency you're looking for...

[true junco]

Efficiency in regards to what? Space? Output per Input resources (which then means which inputs vs others in some cases) and power efficiency.

So pure ingots that are made in refineries are fairly ingot/ore efficient. Not ingot per kWhr efficient.

[grand talon]

output per resource wwith a ssecondary being space

[boreal imp]

Refinery takes a lot of space for ore...as you also have to build the water extractors...so if space is a concern at all don't use them for ore.

[true junco]

So. Pure iron, copper, caterium and quartz are all the most output/input

Refineries and the necessary water infrastructure is not space efficient.

[vapid gorge]

A lot of power for pure recipes but they can be convenient if you need more resources on 1 location w/o wanting to import them

[true junco]

Oh and poor power efficiency necessarily is not space efficient because you need more power plants and fuel production etc.

[wind spade]

pure recipes give "free" boost to things by adding water
alloy recipes combine two ores for higher yield of one

[solid sphinx]

5 extractors straight through a t2 pump up to the top floor and straight into 12 coal plants.

[vapid gorge]

ok so a few things
Get rid of any valves and buffers
Remove the floor hole connections, they are sometimes bugged and kill head lift
loop the end of the pipe back to the start
keep 1 coal plant off until everything else is flooded

after it's all flooded turn on the last one

[wind spade]

if everything else fails, feed from above

[solid sphinx]

I will take the valve out and the floor holes. The buffer is gone and the system didnt work before i added any valves or buffers so maybe floor holes

[vapid gorge]

yeah feeding from below CAN cause issues, but if you flood and loop it should work

loop it something like this, where the bottom junctions are feeding machines

[solid sphinx]

dats uuugly lol

[vapid gorge]

this is the set up I use for my bottom feeding systems

It's 1 pipes over another? shrug you can do it side by side too but I like the look of that less

I use those on set ups like this

Not all set ups need a loop, but it's very common and it makes basically any set up work. To avoid loops you have a lot more restrictions on set ups

[true junco]

For a side by side loop. You can do half the generators on one side and half on the other side. Ends up looking like a pair of one sided manifolds that are just connected together at each end.

Or you could loop around the outside and put the non input ends of the generators back to back at the inside.

Lots of different ways to loop really.

In your case you could run the loop part underneath the generators.

[solid sphinx]

This fixed it... Having to feed from both sides even though i have more production than consumption.

[vapid gorge]

I'd avoid putting the loop under the feed pipe but if you flood it should still work

yeah also an option.
the reason for the loop is that fluids are bidirectional, so if it's just a single pipe and fluid flows back it'll stutter production and starve other machines

[solid sphinx]

Its just one big loop now. from extractors then out front and back and up to coals

[vapid gorge]

oh and sometimes floor holes are buggy - so commonly people just clip the pipes through them for look rather than actually using them

[true junco]

Yeah. So basically a manufold for the extractors connected at bith ends to the manifold for the generators. That makes it both a loop and feeding from both ends. That should work out most of the time

[prisma kraken]

I used to build coal plants using a similar configuration, thinking that i could save the 4mw of power for two pumps and get by with a single pump (which technically you can do), but i found that whenever i brought a plant up, it wouldn't ever quite stabilize until i flipped off the generators to allow the pipes to refill completely

the design fell out of favor with me because it meant a trip back to the coal plant to jiggle the handle, so to speak

it honestly should work reliably, and will with a little bit of manual touching, but at this point i want to be able to bring up coal and be done with that until i upgrade belts & miners

[leaden depot]

which calculator is it that can calculate the max of an item from whats availible on the map?

[vapid gorge]

I think both can do it? but I vouch for sftools https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[eager escarp]

Beginner here, just started making permanent facilities, this one is my setup for iron rods, iron plates, rotors and reinforced iron plates, which is running off the 4 iron deposits at the bottom of the map. Any critiques with the way Im approaching this?

[median heath]

4 items listed, 5 containers.
I am confused.

[thorny cedar]

the last one is not hooked up

[median heath]

Other than that this looks great aside from all the yellow lights 😭

[thorny cedar]

you see 🙂

[eager escarp]

Oh the 5th is for thing you mix the rotors and plates to get, but I didn't build that yet since I don't have anything that needs that yet

[thorny cedar]

i like it straight so no complains for me keep it straight 😄

[eager escarp]

And I need a ton of the lower tier stuff for the permanent power plant

[median heath]

Then yeah, the yellow lights is my only complaint.

[summer sage]

I'm a firm believer in "Don't need it yet, Make it anyway"

[eager escarp]

If I start making those rn it's gonna take ages to finish my power plant due to lack of rotors and reinforced plates

Those things take a ridiculous amount for the rate that it's being produced

[thorny cedar]

handcraft more :3

[summer sage]

I'm not above parking at a crafting bench and reading this discord lol

[thorny cedar]

if you sit there collecting grass for power or sit there handcraft more rotor for faster power automation

[wind spade]

or you don't do either and automate

[frosty owl]

@median heath (Moving here as it belongs)
What sort of imprecisions were you referring to that supposedly "always break non-smart sushi" and what tests have been performed on this?

[median heath]

You were there for all the steel testing I did.
And imprecisions as far as "the entire reason I have sinks at the end of my smart sushi manifolds"
Because every one in a million cycles of things, the game just fucks up occasionally.
Sending the wrong thing the wrong way breaks it.

If you can guarantee the game will never fuck up, ever, at all, then yes, you don't need smarts.

[snow dove]

impossible to guarantee the game will never mess up

not even just functionally impossible, it’s truly impossible

[median heath]

If you can make that guarantee, I also never need sinks on my sushi manifolds 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

As it stands, I've never observed or heard of the game working in unpredictable ways (ie: fucking up) outside of known problematic scenarios (eg: max throughput with long belts and low FPS).
I believe you're aware of my interest in the subject and precision with which I collect data on it

[median heath]

When U8 gets pushed to EA I will redo all the tests I did because I am open to the possibility they fixed whatever caused the random fuckups.

[frosty owl]

Also, the steel tests are a different case from cases where the "item pattern" is made only relying on logistics rather than the timing at which many machines consume items (which dictates wether the splitters act round-robin or just feed the first output aviable)

I do not have knowledge over how precise multiple machines' production cycles can be and if they can be reliably in sync, other than "they do well enough to feed other machines". The timings needed by splitters may require a precision that is unneeded by logistics that don't rely on the precision of machines' production cycles

TLDR: Machines could very well have "worse precision" than splitters, making the scenario @median heath attempted difficult/impossible as it relies more on the precision of production cycles than the precision of logistics (which is much more known)

[median heath]

This is an accurate representation of my findings.
Because I don't build things in another way.

[winter pewter]

Has anyone had the problem where, mathematically, the factory balances out perfectly (its about a factory including plastic); but when you leave for a while and come back, an item is completely full on the conveyor belts?

[wind spade]

I guess then it's not perfect

if you're using manifolds, that's normal

[frosty owl]

I learned to understand that if things don't go as I expected, either I expected wrong or I made a mistake in building [insert forgot-MK1-segment meme]

[jovial crypt]

how does that look for my very first Turbofuel power plant i have ever made? 74 Fuel burners powered by a 333 turbofuel/m production plant from a single 600 unit Crude Oil node. Around 11GW of power produced

currently all polymer resin is getting sent into a Awesome sink at the moment and the turbofuel that gets overproduced is getting stored and used for packaging,

[wind spade]

my preference is to skip turbofuel 🤷‍♂️

[true junco]

It look good. Not the best conversion of crude to power tho. Using the recipies for HOR and Diluted fuel can gross 20GW from 600 crude.

If you want to do turbo, the best options are either to do HOR+Diluted Fuel. Then either make default Turbofuel (fuel + Compact coal) or TurboBlend (which is more complex, and you have to use fuel, HOR, and Coke so tou dont turn all your crude into fuel to make it)

Oh wait. You arent burning 100% of the turbo. I may have assumed the low power conversion was from using "turbo heavy fuel"

No. 333 turbo fuel should make 11GW.

[jovial crypt]

i dont have the alternative recipes for it and there happens to be another pure and normal crude oil nodes nearby so yeah

i kinda speedran it and didnt do 100% effeciency on everything because well....

i made the mistake of not automating motors... wich fuel burners tend to need alot in those quantity's

surprisingly HMF's and Computers were the easiest to make for this one lole

[true junco]

Its a good project and you got it done and running. And it looks good. So literally my only negative comment is that it wasnt the best way to make turbo fuel.

[jovial crypt]

yeah, my only reason why i chose turbofuel is because of Jetpack fuel

and that i might need it for later

[true junco]

Fair. Turbo fuel is also used to make turborifle ammo which is nice.

[wind spade]

usually just one or two machines making TF for jetpack from your diluted fuel factory is enough

[jovial crypt]

if only i had aluminium

honestly im glad enough that i now finally have enough power for my future plans, my 3.6 GW coal power plant at the crater lakes was getting pretty stressed out in terms of theoratical max consumsion

[true junco]

You will get there. Honestly. Getting to aluminum is harder than figuring out aluminum which is harder than actually making aluminum.

[jovial crypt]

also uhh while im here... i might also need some opinions about my current train network that is not really future proof i found out, going to take a hot minute to load the interactive map

yeah, also can clearly see the parts of the network where i started to use rails for the first time

like, i cant really think of a way to really future proof the entire network without having to tear up everything and replacing it with a 2 lane system

[true junco]

Some folks do a stacked rail system. Where the 2 lanes are over under instead of side by side. I did it in a few spots where i wanted to add rails to an older factory area and didnt want to tear down a lot of stuff to do it.

Or the 2 lanes dont have to stay together all the time. The second lane could be on the other side of the canyon for example.

[jovial crypt]

probably the better bet, but stacked would also worked

i made the rail system through the canyon incredibly elevated above the ground

to the point where you could die from fall damage with bladerunners

[viral ravine]

Just a quick question to ensure i got my math right,

I got 72.5/min oil residue to deal with, that converts to exactly 145 fuel/min (DF). Fuel generators consume 12 fuel/min each. 145/12=144.08(3).
So to consume 145 i need to have 11 of the generators running at 100% and the 12th one running at 100.83%.

Is that correct?

[mystic moon]

Yes, or build 13 gens at 92.95%

[viral ravine]

Thanks

I will make 12 since thats an even number and will look nicer but I appreciate you counted this for me

[prisma kraken]

i'm a fan of setting everything on a fuel manifold to the same clockspeed

you don't have to do so, but i think it helps things behave a bit bettr

[viral ravine]

tbh as long as it disposes of this fuel I am fine, the fuel comes from oil residue i need to deal with

i dont need this power at the moment

[prisma kraken]

understood, strange numbers for it all that you'e dealing with

[viral ravine]

Why strange?

[prisma kraken]

there's a few common oil builds that result in normal numbers like 400 hor; 800 fuel, etc

[viral ravine]

thats an assembly director system build

And I will produce some of my circuit boards via petrol coke and some cables via insulated cable

I rounded up some petrol and cable production and ended up with leftover 72.5 residue with no use

[prisma kraken]

well, that's a bit of an off-meta build 🙂

[viral ravine]

long story

i dunno whats meta

[prisma kraken]

some recipes are very common to use and are commonly used on quantities like 300 oil b/s that's what you can pull from a normal oil node, the recipe chains for dealing with that in the most efficient way to make things like rubber/plastic/power, etc are commonly used, and those are 'on-meta' recipes

off meta is stuff like making cable with hor just because it isn't commonly done

[viral ravine]

I like that cable recepie, its cool

[prisma kraken]

hard recipe to use, isn't easy getting hor & copper together 🙂

[viral ravine]

if theres a will theres a way

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its one of the few things i'd actually use a fluid train for doing

[viral ravine]

well im doing this in blue crater

where i declared copper to be "close enough" to use

[prisma kraken]

another reason its a bit off-meta is that cable isn't very useful outside of default recipes for oscilators, computers & hsc's

[viral ravine]

I use it just for hsc

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's reasons to do such, but it is sort of dependent on how much factory you are building

[viral ravine]

just the ADS but it appears i tend to do alot of non meta choices

[wind spade]

the coated cable is pretty good iirc

[viral ravine]

It is in my opnion

[wind spade]

I've analysed all the wire/cable combos here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14pQwDTsijRlK9W3grgUrAbpiASJxQDBalTuICEZol_E/edit?usp=sharing

[viral ravine]

37.5 wire + 15 HOR = 67.5 cable

[oblique hollow]

good recipe

75 + 30 = 135

[viral veldt]

does overclocking machines still give you the same energy per item produced, so two smelters at 60 items/min would consume the same energy as 4 smelters at 30?

[oblique hollow]

nah

its a power curve

(quite literally)

[viral veldt]

makes sense

lol

[oblique hollow]

no i mean it in a literal sense, its a function of like X^(some constant)

[viral veldt]

yeah no i get it dont worry

im guessing each machines power curve varies then

[oblique hollow]

they all use the same formula, just different values for base power

[viral veldt]

oh thats sick

[oblique hollow]

see above

[viral veldt]

and clock speed is represented in % im guessing?

[oblique hollow]

yea. if you have 200%, you use 200 in this formula

[viral veldt]

yeah ok sweet thanks

im setting up my first foundry and i found a pure iron node but i have a little less space than id like so i was thinking if it'd be worth it to double clock two smelters instead of running four

[oblique hollow]

this is some experimental data i took:

its for power saving in the sub-100 range

quick example: bottom value means a clock speed of 2.5%, 40 machines at 2.5% add up to 100%, but they only use 30.6% of the original power

[wind spade]

that's basically up to you

the extra power costs are not much if you have automated power (and you should always have more power than you need anyway), so it's basically a choice between "more space usage, but less power usage" and "less space usage, but more power usage"

it's a tradeoff, like many other things in this game 🙂

[viral veldt]

oh thats really interesting, i mean the gain vs the sheer footprint makes is pretty useless but thats pretty neat

[oblique hollow]

the biggest "gain" happens at around 40%

where building footprint isnt too big but power saved per building is relatively large

[viral veldt]

yeah i should have the headroom since i'm going to be running the whole foundry on its own coal plant, with coal being trucked from a nearby source, but i need to double check everything

[wind spade]

personally though I'd rather build more power than build more machines to save power

[snow dove]

building power is easy enough

[viral veldt]

now i just need to get a handle on the game's fluid system and i'll be all set 🙃

i saw the manual in the pinned messages its just a matter of actually reading through it

i do like how formulaic the game is though, itches my engineering brain

[viral veldt]

is it worth it to have fluid buffers before my coal plants? in most of my cases, the plants are below the buffers, but my collectors are also below my buffers

[oblique hollow]

nah

the generators and extractors serve well enough

[viral veldt]

fair enough

is the best way to estimate headlift just to compare it to the height of some foundations

[wind spade]

fluid buffers are pretty much useless, apart from fluid train loading/unloading

[wind spade]

there should be indicator when placing pump iirc

[viral veldt]

yeah but if i remember correctly the water extractor doesnt show its headlift, but it can pump 10m

[oblique hollow]

just pretent the water extractor has 0 and slap a pump right near the exit if you dont wanna do guesses

If a mk 1 pump is 4 MW for 20m then a water extractor is like 2 MW for 10m
power saving is not really an issue so just go for that safety

[viral veldt]

yeah I'll probably just do that then

thanks for all the help

[fiery berry]

If i have 300 out (mk4belt) and need 160, how do i split it?

[wind spade]

one splitter and a bit of patience

[fiery berry]

no no impossible

[wind spade]

why?

[fiery berry]

needs to be exactly 160 on the belt xd

[wind spade]

it will be, once the 140 side fills up

[fiery berry]

ahhhhh overflow no! NEVER! (IM LITTERLY USING OVERLFOW ON THE REST OF MY FACTORY)

[wind spade]

what's the issue with overflow lol

(you can also make it so that you don't merge it to 300 in the first place, instead merge it to 160 and 140 respectively)

[fiery berry]

nothing haha, my planning is on the go xd decided to totaly rebuild all my factorys from scratch with only 1 space elevator part left..

now if only i had planned before hand and didnt have a belt floor this tight then yes 😄

also its rods im splitting from 20 constructors so, alot of dang splitting to get 160/140 belts

[amber jacinth]

Just merge your initial constructors onto two belts to get the desired balance, as greeny stated

[fiery berry]

im going lazy route and do overflow, kinda cramped for the belts, like i said im planning as i go and just max out the possible production

[amber jacinth]

Alternatively, I think this would work

[fiery berry]

hmm seems correct to me

[wind spade]

tbh 99% of "how do I split X to Y an Z" can be easily solved by "do not merge to X, merge to Y and Z separately"

people for some reason love to merge everything onto one belt without thinking (or even better - "a belt must be full" - merging to max belt), and then have these issues, when instead if they thought about what do they need to do with the items next, they could save themselves all the headache

[true junco]

There is definitely an indicator, but it almost never shows up for me. Idk why tho... 🤷‍♂️

[fiery berry]

well yhee I agree, and i would do it that way if i was planning ahead, now im just maxing the nodes i got collected and build as i go, only play a few hours everynow and then. its only my 18th session in total so.(on this save)

[true junco]

I think a lot of the merging of everything only to split it later comes from people running VERY long belts across the map. They merge to reduce the number of belts being run across the map.

[wind spade]

well that goes hand in hand with "build one factory in one place" I guess then 🙂

and "do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior direct input?"

[fiery berry]

yup, i got 4 480 belts of iron ore in this iron factory, soo alot of ''hmm lets max these belts and get them to the next floor and plan the next stuff then''

[true junco]

Well. It is probably also partly fed by the idea of output manifolds from a line of machines. Thats just merging X machines onto a belt... then for some reason folks overthink what they need to do with that 1 belt of products as it goes to the next step of production.

[wind spade]

which is pretty much exactly the root cause... if instead you were "ok I'll need 240 iron here, 480 iron here and rest here", you would know how to merge/split the belts so that you have it prepared for next step

also, one of the reasons why I (and others) very often recommend to plan from the end product

[fiery berry]

Oh i know, but im not planning out my whole factory before hand. waay to much for me. so its just planning as i go and get it to work in the space i built.

[true junco]

I dont worry either way. I have no issues merging everything to reduce belts then divide it up into whatever its making. It usually looks like a manifold of manifolds. And works fine every time.

[wind spade]

instead of going "I have 1000 iron, what can I do with it?", you go "ok, I need modular frames, so let's plan for... e.g. 15 modular frames per minute, what do I need for that?

[fiery berry]

yhee thats the smartest but not my goal really.

[wind spade]

it's not planning whole factory. It's planning one product at a time

[wind spade]

sure, but you know what you're doing 🙂 all those people that come here and ask "how do I split X to Y" don't 🙂

[fiery berry]

yhee i get thats its annyoing and kinda pointless. buuuut here i am

[true junco]

The flaw with this is you get people who want to do something silly like "i want 60/min of every item including the last stage of project parts, UFR and PFR"

The whole plan backwards vs plan forwards arguement is invalid. As you should really do both at the same time... "i have 1000/min iron here and i know the things i want to make. I calculate the theoretical max for all those things i want to make, then pick a number smaller than that max and THEN I work backwards to design what i need to reach that goal, which i have already confirmed is actually possible."

[wind spade]

I mean if you have a full world planned like that, you should also know how much resources it needs

[fiery berry]

the problem i see with planning backwards is if i say need my last part for phase 3 (modular engine) then i need to rethink everything later on for next part when i unlock and know what that needs.

[true junco]

Right. But its easier to take available, and calculate possible, then pick reasonable then design backwards. I assume thats actually what "design backwards" people are doing, they just omit the 1st parts when they say it.

[wind spade]

the point of planning backwards is that you don't limit yourself to "I have 1000 iron nearby", you first plan from the product, then figure out how much resources it needs and then find a place to build it / adjust numbers to fit some place to build it

[cinder silo]

Or just use SFtools and make the plan from there.

It'll soon tell you if your plan is even remotely possible.

[wind spade]

obviously at some point you can do the forward as well (that's the "adjust" in my previous message), but it shouldn't be a major deciding point, since you should plan the place for a build after you know what the build needs (or together with it)

[true junco]

I guess what im getting at is, planning backwards works fine if you start with reasonable goals. Planning forwards is a way to determine the upper bounds on what is reasonable. Globally or locally.

[viral veldt]

yeah i can see why people do this but that is so boring to me, so in turn i will just have hundreds of tractors

[wind spade]

yeah that's fair, my point was that you shouldn't limit yourself to "nodes nearby", as part of the "separate your factories" recommendation

[fiery berry]

planning backward is way easier later game once you unlocked most of the usefull stuff. If you plan backwards from the start there will be a shit ton of rebuilding unlock after unlock, phase after phase

[wind spade]

there won't

you keep the old factories, you build new factories

(or rather, doesn't have to be)

most alt recipes are possible to obtain even before you build production for given item

[true junco]

Hmm? Oh the running belts for kilometers? Yeah, that is the point of tractors/trucks/trains. To avoid running hundreds of belts over kilometers of distance.

[viral veldt]

honestly once i got tractors going, everything felt way closer (shocker, almost like they can move faster than me) so I got less afraid to set up more remote factories

[fiery berry]

guees i just play different then. i got 91h on this save and have almost finished phase 3 (decided to do a full rebuild before the last part eventho i could have made it). and all that in this limited area. (not saying that is fast just pointing out my smaller playtime)

[wind spade]

what I usually recommend is that every product is made separately from raw materials

e.g. you make 15 RIPs/min
then you figure out you need 10 RIPs/min for modular frames, so instead of taking from those 15, you build 10 RIP/min factory as part of the modular frame factory

that way you don't ever have to rebuild, as every factory only makes things for storage

(obviously you can play in any way you want, you just seem aware that there are other options that may be helpful, so I'm recommending some to you)

[viral veldt]

im considering doing that since i can move materials way easier now, but at the same time since assemblers are slow asf my RIPs and rotors are starting to backstuff so its not as critical

[fiery berry]

yhee i get that whole build new factory when something new is needed etc, but my playstyle is trying to have it all in one place and just taking from what i have and adding when needed. But oh well, we will see once im starting the whole factory up. so far about 75% done on the iron factory.

[true junco]

Thats kind of how you get thru the early phases anyway. I found i needed such larger volumes later that i needed to build all new stuff anyways.

[fiery berry]

i just got tired of filling bins of space elevator parts constantly before even getting supercomputers etc started in my spaghetti so into the interactive map and wipe the whole factorty and rebuild it all with no plan for even factory sizes or place haha

[torpid yoke]

i dont know if this is the right channel to ask this but, I have 256 coal input and im trying to use 6 foundry, the 6th one at 31% clock speed so it uses the right amount. But now i have to split 45 on each and then this 6th one uses 14 per min. I dont know how to achieve that input, im new to building my own 100% efficient factories. I thought about splitting everything in 6 equally and on the last one split it in 3 rows and distribute 2 to the other 5 foundries

[median heath]

Manifold.

!wikisearch Manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Manifold

[torpid yoke]

so ill just have to wait for eveything to fill up?

[delicate chasm]

You can avoid that by hand-feeding the machines as you build them, or build and turn on the miner, letting it run while you build the smelters or foundries, and so on.

[torpid yoke]

thts a good tip, ty guys 🙂

[delicate chasm]

Np, good luck!

[vapid gorge]

a tip tangent is that early on I don't find the need to prefil as it doesn't take long, gives you time to go build something else while it spins up and that early on you might want to rebuild redesign as you learn and your needs change.
IMO prefilling is good mostly for things that need wire/screws,things that have 500 stack sizes since they take ages. And of course if you're building a perfect system it helps test out if there's any bugs in the build

[frosty owl]

Pre-filling is the reason I'm storing ores and ingots too

[vapid gorge]

Hmm, I guess I don't prep that much for it? Even with my long complex, wire needing, beacon factory I had to test out a number of times the ores backed up pretty quick.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, when you build in stages, it does tend to always back up on you 🙂

i tend to build factories in logical units and bring them on as i start working on the next one so that i can find the missed belts or power connections, etc quicker

also, in the early part of the game, dropping a sink on the intermediate products can get you some nice early coupons more quickly

[median heath]

Storing... ores... 😭

[frosty owl]

I totally didn't, like... just want a reason to store literally every item in the game 😅

[true junco]

@prisma kraken this is the chart for the Modular frame BP ill be making next. Shouldnt be difficult. Its just 3 assemblers and 3 constructors with appropriate overclocking. Really simple. And like i said earlier, I really do not care how much iron/steel it consumes because of how much is available.

[prisma kraken]

can i suggest a slightly more complicated way?

of the ways i've modeled, i think this might be the nicest to build:

[true junco]

Dont see how that will fit into a single BP tho. Lol

[prisma kraken]

get a bigger bpm? lol

[true junco]

If the devs break sevr's heart by putting in a bigger one. 😆

[prisma kraken]

pleasing sev is probably not their #1 goal, selling the game to as many people as possible is

[true junco]

Is joke

[prisma kraken]

honestly, that can be bp'd in some functional modules

i know because i've done so before

[true junco]

Well
The chart i gave is for 1 easy BP.

I will probably make a seperate BP for the "steeled frame" path at some point. Tho i had done jt already with my 125HMF build.

[prisma kraken]

what bothers me about that way is that 270 doesn't go into 780 squarely

give me a quick second

trimming it down to 1/4 of the size, this does fit into a bp if you pull the solid steel out of it:

belting that up in a bp wouldn't be fun, but i know it is possible

[true junco]

Hmmm. 5 assemblers and 1 constructor in a BP for this.

I always keep my ingot productions seperate from anything made from ingots when making BPs. (And i guess plastic and rubber are petroleum ingots in this example, 😆)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i think of plastic and rubber as pretty much raw resources with an exceptionally large, power-hungry miner 😄

[true junco]

Obviously lots of overclocking. But im trying to be more productive per MB of save file size now. Lol

22.1MB is probably approaching severely pushing my luck with a Laptop. 😆

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's larger than my largest

not by much, but it defo is a big boy

[true junco]

Yeah. Long way to go still. 😆

[eager escarp]

Is the one pure coal node and the 2 normal iron nodes at the bottom of the map able to sustain steel production up to midgame at least? Or is there a better location for that

[vapid gorge]

depends what you're doing. If you let time go by you could make 1 steel ingot per min do you

but yes I've found that's enough steel to throw whatever you need together till late game at modest rates.
Though I used more efficient steel recipes

[eager escarp]

What is steel generally used for? Is it like a T4 version of iron where it's needed in all the T4+ stuff

[amber jacinth]

Just another base product you need to incorporate into your factories, really- slightly more complicated than anything else, as it’s using two resources rather than one.

[eager escarp]

Also just curious, at what tier do we get a usable mode of item transportation that works on a global scope? Like something that can rival the transport speed of belts but doesn't need much infrastructure between factories

[amber jacinth]

Trucks (T3), trains (T6), drones (T7)

Personally, I’ve never used trucks, but I’ve been told they are good for throughput.

Trains are good as you don’t have to fuel them (run on power grid), but you do need to lay tracks and the stations are a tad big

And drones excel at long-distance, low throughput item transport, and take batteries as fuel.

[wind spade]

speed is irrelevant, what you care about is throughput

[eager escarp]

How exactly do trucks work? Do they take the shortest path to the destination or you have to set checkpoints, or they can pathfind on their own?

[wind spade]

they drive the same (or rather similar) track as you drive when you're programming them

[prisma kraken]

you drive them, painfully recording the route

spin out, start recording again, lather, rinse repeat until you record it correctly

[median heath]

Drive. They drop nodes. They follow nodes.

Very reliable, and my favorite form of logistics.

[eager escarp]

Do I have to worry about them colliding into each other assuming I have a road network

[median heath]

If you make them cross paths, yes.

So... don't make their paths cross 😉

[eager escarp]

Ah well

[wind spade]

if they crash into each other, they'll try to resolve it (go around the obstacle, or if stuck for long time - ghost to next node)

[viral ravine]

But only if youre nearby

[median heath]

They ghost even if you aren't there.

[viral ravine]

I meant that they crash when you are nearby

My truck always bumps into a wall on a turn when im close to it but phases through when i zoom on it with the photo mode from afar

[median heath]

Why is it near walls?

Oh that's right... road-builder 😛

[viral ravine]

I wanted to make two lanes and those lanes are separared by 1m walls

[eager escarp]

Actually what's the difference in costs of building a road vs building a conveyor belt line

[viral ravine]

Massive

[median heath]

Define cost in a game with infinite resources?

[eager escarp]

I mean then I might as well be spamming belts everywhere across the map

[viral ravine]

The amount required to complete a particular build

[wind spade]

belts cost more fps usually

especially the long ones

[viral ravine]

They also cost alot of resourcers

[median heath]

Ok, but a building "costing" 50 Supers vs. 500 Supers is... 🤷‍♂️
Because the total amount of Supers you have is infinite.

[viral ravine]

28 units for a longest single belt which ultimately isnt that long

[median heath]

So a belt requiring belt materials vs. a road requiring a higher amount of materials... 🤷‍♂️
Since your total materials is infinite.

[viral ravine]

Dont you have an outpost to work on

[median heath]

Nope.

Watching Ink Master.

[prisma kraken]

does anyone know how truck stations calculate the statistic they display 'maximum transfer rate: X stacks/min' ?

[wind spade]

@zealous pawn see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[vernal vine]

Hey, can anyone help me with fluids? I dont fully understand them.

I just build a pretty big fuel gen setup but the flow rate in the fuel pipes keeps randomly dropping and i have no idea why.

[viral veldt]

in the pins for this chat there's a plumbing manual, so if you havent read that first i'd give it a read

i was confused too but it makes way more sense now that i've read it

there's also some good diagnostic examples there

[viral veldt]

however, as a quick summary, flow rate depends on how full pipes are, and flow will only occur from one pipe to the next if the first section is filled. In addition, max flow rate only occurs when every pipe between destinations is full, so if theres a spot that is low then it will mess with the flow rate. Plus, i dont believe that pumps and such output at a constant rate, further affecting flow rate

so its really fun to logic through 🙃

pretty much the only useful way to measure flow rate is average flow rate, not current flow

[vernal vine]

i just read through the manual and have tried a few things, hasnt seemed tto stabalize realy

but thanks already for the help

let me get a few screenshots

[mystic moon]

You're wrong on a lot of that actually

[viral veldt]

how so? thats what i gathered from reading the manual

[mystic moon]

• Machines can be treated as if the output rate is constant(and depending on system configuration, it will be very close)
• Flow can and does occur between two segments that are only partially filled
• Pumps pump at exactly the speed of the incoming fluid. They add head lift, nothing else.

[viral veldt]

yeah i suppose i shouldve been a little more specific, machines can be treated as constant, which is why i said the only useful way to measure flow rate is the average, so looking at how much you can produce vs consume, not by looking at the rate in a pipe or buffer

and as long as a pipe is horizontal, they will all reach the same level, it just happens that almost all my runs have been vertical so i think of it that way most of the time

all things considered if you know how water flows in real life, youll probably be fine in satisfactory

[mystic moon]

Pretty much

[viral veldt]

its pretty funny bc at first i was so confused why my water systems weren't working and i realized it was just because i wasnt patient and failed to realize that the pipes actually hold quite a bit of water

i was also mistaken that inline pumps increase your flow rate, i just happened to place them at the time that water reached those pipes and had a causation/correlation issue

[vernal vine]

So the problem is that on floor II the fuel lines to the generators are not getting an avrg. flow rate of 278.66 but are sometimes at like 350 and sometimes at 25

[viral veldt]

is floor II the one with your flow equalizers?

[vernal vine]

yup the 4 green rings on floor 2 with the buffers are those

[viral veldt]

well I dont know what's going on either, my only thoughts are that the large fluid buffers are messing with the flow rate because of how massive they are, or if having unequal pipe lengths on either side of the valve could be affecting it

those are just shots in the dark though

[vernal vine]

The thing is also that 1/4th of the top floor is curretnly working without an issue, the other 3 are not

Im taking that back, half of them are working corretly

[viral veldt]

maybe it just needs more time?

the only other potential issue i could see is a problem with headlift somehow, but seeing as how every line is identical i doubt that

[mystic moon]

@vernal vine you're really just massively overcomplicating the system

[median heath]

3 main issues I see:
Buffers
Valves
Hardstop manifolds with mk2 pipes instead of looped

[mystic moon]

Yup

Read the piping manual and built a bunch of stuff that wasn't needed

[viral veldt]

where are the hardstop manifolds? are they the lines running to the gens?

i wanna learn

[mystic moon]

Yes, that just means a manifold that's unlooped

[median heath]

When you have the branch that leads to a row of generators, does that pipe just end or do you have it connected back to the system somewhere?

[vernal vine]

So remove the flow equalizers, remove all valves so its purely based on overflow and get a line that makes all the manifolds loops and it should work?

[vernal vine]

it just ends

[median heath]

That's a hardstop.
Mk2 pipes hate those.

[vernal vine]

the thing is there is barely any fluid left there

[vernal vine]

But if would do this you think it would flow better?

[viral veldt]

Are buffers really only useful when moving fluids via vehicle?

I.e. a pickup/delivery situation

[viral ravine]

So its not advised to do that?

has been doing that

[median heath]

Indeed.

[median heath]

Yes

[viral ravine]

Whats wrong with full stops like this?

[median heath]

Slosh.

[viral ravine]

I mean the pipe has got to end somewhere

[vernal vine]

imm curretnly looping the pipe

thanks for the help, ill tell you guys how it goes

[oblique hollow]

it doesnt have to. thats why looping exists

ending at machines is one thing

but in general, any type of dead end branch interrupts mk 2s so you wanna avoid having that

if you cant avoid it, you gotta forcefuly lower the flow so that it doesnt affect pipes.
Thats ALSO where loops come back into play

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hammer

unfortunately we cant use accumulators (buffers) for this as the pressure wave would pass through it in most cases

[viral ravine]

is that specific only to mk2??

[oblique hollow]

yep

as water hammer is also only an issue with fast moving fluids

the mitigation section on that wikipedia is the most interesrinf as a lot of things apply here too

except for anything that is like "regulate pressure" since we have no control over that directly. High flow = high pressure

[true junco]

So. I havent checked. But im 99% sure that fluid buffers built into machines are one way. Ie. Fluid that enters a machine input cannot flow back out. And fluid that leaves a machine output cannot flow back in. And that applies to freight stations. But you can connect to both the inlet and outlets of freight stations. So i guess fluids can flow into a station inlet and out the outlet if you connect them.

[snow dove]

it is indeed one way

[leaden depot]

There may be more compact 5:7 balancers, but this one is mine. I refuse to acknowledge the clear absurdity here.

[wind spade]

there are also manifolds 🙂

which make all of this redundant

[leaden depot]

yeah, but I have 5 full belts in, and 7 full belts out of the next steel phase. So its kinda odd swapping belts for input and output at odd points in the manifold.

[wind spade]

um, how do you convert 5 full belts to 7 full belts? 🤔

[leaden depot]

solid steel.

[wind spade]

oh I'm talking about the 5:7 balancer

you have 5 belts going in, 7 belts going out

[leaden depot]

no, I'm dividing 5 full belts into 7 equal belts.

[wind spade]

why so?

[leaden depot]

because my steel plant is divided into 7 wings of 5 foundries.

each one spoitting out a full belt

[wind spade]

do 5 manifolds with those 5 belts, merge overflow from all 5, move that to remaining two manifolds

no balancer needed, simple and effective

[leaden depot]

see that is sensible.

now that I have this lasagne I'm inclined to keep it. But I'll remember that strategy for next time.

[wind spade]

there's never a need for balancers and if you feel like there's need for them, there's always a simpler solution for things
(that's not saying you shouldn't build balancers, just that if you don't like building them, look for easier options, there's always some)

[median heath]

I wouldn't say there is never a need for them.
I would say there is rarely a need for them.

[cinder silo]

The only places I build balancers are when mass rad-haz is a thing so it cuts radioactivity and lets a reactor hall start up in 2 minutes not 20 hours, or ***maybe ***a small factory to look cool, not needed there at all, just a style choice in the second case.

[median heath]

Placing them before fully saturated sushi lines is my main usage.

Coincidentally, Solid Steel is a perfect example.
But that never gets more complex than a 2:2

[leaden depot]

I could have divided my factory better so there were equal numbers of "lines" in each step. So 7 iron ingot lines and 7 steel lines for example, so there's no friction between phases. But I'd still have to balance the ore input across the 7 lines.

But I guess the overflow into mergers thing would technically work.

[median heath]

Injection Manifold.
No balancing required.

[wind spade]

separated manifolds
no injection manifolds required

[median heath]

Injection better. 😁

Wait

[wind spade]

you wouldn't, why would you?
if the 7 belts are equal, there's no need to balance

[median heath]

Injection best

[wind spade]

injection more work for same result 🤷‍♂️

[leaden depot]

like I have 5 miners running into those 7 lines still. And some are pure, some are normal

[wind spade]

at that point I'd design the factory so that I could build manifolds straight from the miner

[leaden depot]

Call it spaghetti if you want, but I think its' pretty

[mystic moon]

Not really spaghetti imo

[median heath]

So.. many... yellow.. lights...

😭

[leaden depot]

yeah...

[median heath]

Fix it 😭

[leaden depot]

I'm building this in phase 3 on mk2 miners.

but its planned out for mk3

so it'll be a while

[median heath]

So turn half of them off. 😭

[leaden depot]

sorry, I won't share any more until its tuned better

[median heath]

Can I give you one tip?

Press H to put the taser away before screenshot 👍💛💛

[true junco]

I do think its funny that in U8 since they made "H" the hologram lock, you have to hit "T" to "holster" the build info now. 😆

assuming default keybinds obviously

[north pilot]

You must have amazing production to have that many awesome sinks sitting there. That must mean you have amazing overflow

[thorny cedar]

its just to see if it works

he wanted 7 full mk5 lanes and makes sure everything works 🙂

[vapid gorge]

or you can just selectively merge the outputs of the foundries into 7 belts?

[median heath]

I'm on default.
H is still holster.

Probably doesn't change keybinds if you imported from U8.

[true junco]

H is holster. But when building/dismantling H used to make the text and material icons in the middle of the screen go away too. So i jokingly refer to "holstering" the construction/dismantling info. So now H is still holster for weapons, but because H locks holograms when building, the new hotkey to toggle the build info is T.

[median heath]

I have literally never toggled info. So this is news to me.

Also with every button added, the people asking for console release or controller support...

[true junco]

What?! Its the best. All that material info and description takes up way to much space and is just below the target reticle and has always been aggravating. I would probably never toggle it on and off if we could just put it somewhere else on the screen. That said. Being able to lock the hologram does help with visibility tho, since we can look around.

[median heath]

Next you're going to tell me that building with your feet on the ground is too annoying.
Or that the WG is too great to not use.

My build method was developed years ago and I'm happy with it 😭

[true junco]

WG?

[median heath]

World Grid

[wind spade]

world grid is almost pointless 🤔

[median heath]

Indeed.

It did shut up a lot of people though.
So I guess that was the point?

[wind spade]

I'm not that happy with how many things got in the game because people complained, but oh well, it's not my choice to make, so I guess I'm fine with what we have

[median heath]

I'm right there with you. 💛

[hollow juniper]

Is Alectode Aluminum scrap Worth it?
looking at the Scrap Recipies and i dont really see if its worth it

[wind spade]

depends what's "worth" to you

[median heath]

There are 2 methods tied for highest conversion rate.

Sloppy Alumina + Electrode

Instant

Choice: which black rock?

If coal - use Instant
If coke - Sloppy + Electrode

[true junco]

Personally, my opinion is that Electrode scrap is essential to the best way to make Aluminum Ingots.

[median heath]

Instant all the way for me.

But the numbers are identical between the 2 methods.

[true junco]

The numbers for scrap per bauxite yes. The numbers for other ingredients is where the difference lies. Both are fine ultimately. I just really like the fact that you can convert 100% of bauxite to Scrap for less than 1000m³/min of crude oil.

[hollow juniper]

Instant seems like a Lot more effort and eletricity for less results
but im also half alseep right now

[wind spade]

result is the same iirc

[median heath]

Less steps = more effort?

[true junco]

I havent bothered to look at the power costs of any of them honestly.

[median heath]

And as stated the conversion is identical.

If power is a factor....

[true junco]

The baux to scrap is identical.

The consumption of the other resources is obviously not. (Ie, coal vs oil vs sulfur)

[hollow juniper]

You need to use make Sulfur acid
need coal
and youre still dealing with water Bi-Product

[median heath]

Water byproduct perfectly feeds acid.
Closed system. No dealing with.

[wind spade]

water byproduct can easily be put back in the same system

[hollow juniper]

Sulfur and coal are VERY useful and sulfur is in a semi short supply if you want to use battery's for drone

yeah i know you can filter water back intothe Acid but you stll have to deal with this games Pipe systems, which yeah they work, but they are a pain

if it feeds perfectly then ill look more into it but it still sounds semi annoying

[median heath]

sulfur is in semi short supply

Max Nuke + All Aluminium on the map via Instant still leaves enough sulfur for hundreds of batteries per minute.

The only people who are short on sulfur are the people who mass produce Turbofuel for some reason...

[hollow juniper]

yeah that i dont really get
for the Fuel for jetpacks, Fine
but theres so much more you can do with oil then JUST power

[median heath]

Also I am not saying use exclusively Instant.
I'm saying in some areas Instant shines. In the others, use Sloppy + Electrode.

[median heath]

Bullets is my primary usage of it.

[true junco]

And/Or make a lot of steel with Compact Steel

[main dirge]

tbh quartz ends up being so limiting for me that I don't even use sloppy and still have plenty of sulfur leftover with max nuclear and aluminium

[median heath]

Quartz isn't a factor in making Scrap though?

[main dirge]

Need the extra silica for ingots :p

[median heath]

Ingots is a completely separate conversation though.

[vapid gorge]

Yeah Pure Ingot recipe is fantastic

[median heath]

Bauxite to Scrap is the above comparison.

Ingots is a separate thing. To be analyzed in a vacuum because ingots don't care how the Scrap was acquired.

[main dirge]

Pure would be great but it doesn't get me enough aluminium per ore 🥲

[true junco]

All paths from bauxite to ingot compared by yield assuming you use 1 combo to convert 100% of globally available Bauxite.

[vapid gorge]

just bring in more ore? world limit of bauxite is massive and you'll have other issues going beyond it with pure ingots

[main dirge]

I'm at bauxite limit for the factory I'm going for

100% with 600 spare batteries for drones

[vapid gorge]

Sure, but, why can't you bring more in? if you have to bring something in bauxite is probably easier than a ton of silica

[median heath]

Slop Def Def being that high is interesting.

[main dirge]

There is no more to bring in, I'm using all the bauxite

And most of the silica/quartz as well

V lucky the numbers work out tbh, not that I couldn't have slightly more of a life and just downsize

[true junco]

Max aluminum ingots will consume 6985.71 (66.531%) of Quartz, and 11642.9 (22.026%) of limestone. Assuming you use cheap silica, which you definitely should.

[main dirge]

Point is though, max nuclear + max bauxite (default alumina, ~1:1 electrode to instant) still leaves >1k sulfur for batteries

[true junco]

The whole chart has some interesting things going on to be honest.

[true junco]

Max Uranium Fuel Rods and the cheapest waste recycle to sink plus max aluminum using instant scrap results in having just over 10% of sulfur left over for other things.

[median heath]

And other things don't cost that much sulfur

[main dirge]

Hmm have ~4k quartz and 6.5k limestone in my notes, mb that's made up by the silica from no sloppy idk, bit late to figure out the maths rn

[true junco]

You can absolutely find other uses for the sulfur... but you really have to dig deep into compact steel, Turbofuel and batteries to do so.

Definitely have way more sufur than you need if you just dont make 100% of your aluminum with "Instant" chains.

[true junco]

All i know is its impossible to hit max aluminum ingots if you use the default alumina that kicks out silica.

[main dirge]

Using a ratio of 47.008547005% electrode + default alumina to 1-that instant

surprising how little infrastructure it needs tbh

Only like 125 refineries would think it more for 100% ore consumption

[vapid gorge]

@thorn remnant want ot share a pic of how you set them up?

[thorn remnant]

yes yes

dont mind the pipes

i was trying something

[vapid gorge]

ok so do you know about train buffering?

[thorn remnant]

uhh kinda

it stops working when a train docks

or something, i read that somewhere

[vapid gorge]

cool so what do you do to deal with it not accepting items for like 27 seconds?

[thorn remnant]

add buffers ofc

[vapid gorge]

but there's a specific method

[thorn remnant]

idk bout that😭

[vapid gorge]

for example with belts you might have 1 belt going into an ISC and 2 belts from the ISC to the platform right?

[thorn remnant]

yes

[vapid gorge]

good. So you need something similar with fluid

[thorn remnant]

uhh

[vapid gorge]

#design-and-architecture message

That's Sev's design. I understand it works well

You'll want one for loading AND unloading

[thorn remnant]

i dont get how it works

so fluids go in the buffer the whole time. when the buffer is full it will load into a platform

[vapid gorge]

essentially the same as belt buffers

[vapid gorge]

ok lets take the belt and ISC example

You can feed 1 mk5 belt for 780 pm into the ISC right?
and the ISC can feed 2 mk5 belts for 1560 pm right?

so the buffer or ISC will hold extra fluid or items while the platform is 'closed', and when it opens it feeds more that's held by the buffer

[thorn remnant]

ohhh

yes yes

so the buffer will eventually output faster then input

[vapid gorge]

right.
but it also means you can't have 2 full capacity belts or pipes feeding a platform

Depending on item and transport time you CAN move more than 1 belt or pipe - but personally I just keep it to 1 since I can't be bothered with the math, and unless you have a really long train trip you can generally handle 1 belt/pipe per car

if you do want to math it out though the wikipage with the train engine has the equations I think

The summary though if you want to train fluids - I'd just copy the buffer system I linked you exactly. Or ask Sev for the blueprint

[oblique hollow]

i think the peak for fluids as around the 900/min range?

[vapid gorge]

something like that?

[oblique hollow]

890 ish

[thorn remnant]

is a small buffer enough?

yes right

[vapid gorge]

apparently the small buffer in the example is good enough for most situations? I think Sev mentioned using the big one for specific situations though.

I haven't personally moved stuff with fluid cars yet (except for some gas I couldn't be bothered fine tuning) so not an expert

Also - don't move gas in fluid cars.

[thorn remnant]

lmao

[thorn remnant]

this design, is this a input or output

[vapid gorge]

judging by the direction of the pump - feeding a car

I think you just reverse that for output

[thorn remnant]

so i just reverse the pump?

[vapid gorge]

Pretty sure! but you need them on both the train sations

[thorn remnant]

or is where the pump is the thingy where my fluid comes from

[vapid gorge]

that's feeding into the buffer that then goes to the platform

to keep head lift and direction

I assume

you'd want it facing the other way for receiving fluids

[thorn remnant]

you dont rlly need a pump tho

my fluids are always going down so that also provides headlift right

[vapid gorge]

Buffers have variable head lifts and you do not want stutters and back flow here

[thorn remnant]

ah

i see

[vapid gorge]

Also I would trust Sev to not design it with a pointless pump

I haven't looked into the set up much but my guess is if you could get it to work w/o the pump it'd be like balancing something on a pin and it could jsut flip out and crash if you breathed on it wrong

Something else you could do - package the fluids, and have the train come back with empty canisters.
But that's a different set of things you need to mess with.

[thorn remnant]

ig this works right

[vapid gorge]

That's the delivery site right? you've only got 1 pipe from the platform

[thorn remnant]

oh so like

[vapid gorge]

yeah that could work! I'd probably make a neat and tidy design in the BP machine though, save you a lot of time

[thorn remnant]

yes yes\

this wasjust a quick sketch

[wind spade]

yeah

the point is that most of the time the fluid just flows on the bottom through the pump

if a train unloads, there's more fluid than needed, so the extra flows into the buffer (once the pump part is filled), which is then used if the train station gets locked

[vapid gorge]

You could probably design one that's more compressed too, Sev's is a good example because you can see exactly how the design flows

[thorn remnant]

idk if its too late or if im dumb, why is there more fluids then needed when a train docks

[amber jacinth]

Apparently I have been doing fluid train buffers wrong lol- I've just been hooking a buffer up to the station 😅 (which should work for nitrogen, no?)

[vapid gorge]

do ou mean why does the platform hold more fluid than a train car?

[thorn remnant]

greenys last sentence

[vapid gorge]

look - it's been a long while since Gas / Buffer discussion has happened and maybe stuff has changed?
But afaik: gas + buffer = bad

[wind spade]

train unloads
the pipe after the pump does 600 max, but you have two pipes going out of the platform, so it's unloading 1200, but only 600 goes through

so remaining 600 is used to fill the buffer

[thorn remnant]

ohhhh

[amber jacinth]

Noted- but why, if I may ask?
Headlift doesn't matter, so it stands to reason that the buffer would just unload & fill up as needed

[vapid gorge]

something something no headlift gas -> variable headlift buffer = pain?
Not 100% , but the short of it is you couldn't make it reliably have max throughput

[amber jacinth]

hmm, okay

[vapid gorge]

So if you're moving 600 gas but only care about having like 400 pm? you're probably fine

but if you want continuous and reliable delivery it's bad

[amber jacinth]

I did underclock the fracker from 250% to supply the exact amount I needed, but I may crank that up to supply extra, in that case.

Meaning I wouldn't need a buffer at all

[vapid gorge]

Well there's the platform buffer that still gets you, and the station stops moving products as it's loading/unloading

So you'd have to really overdo it?

Easiest solution - package it

[amber jacinth]

Sure- but if I'm supplying more than enough to the machines, their internal buffers should buffer enough for the 28 odd seconds or so.

[vapid gorge]

maaayyyybe? xD entirely depends on the situation. But it doesn't sound like you're making a perfectly clocked system anyway. I moved gas like that when I just wanted SOME around

Packaging gas is great though - you compress it 4x

[amber jacinth]

I forgot to mention- the trip the gas takes is very short- I would've packed it if it was longer 😛

[vapid gorge]

oh, well still an option. 1 freight car can haul a metric butt load of packaged gas.
if it's that short though? maybe just pipe it

Packaged N is also perfect for Drones too

[thorn remnant]

ngl they should add different buffers for gas, so it meassures pressure instead of volume since u can make gass very dense

okay no it would chqnge the whole thing on how gass works

[vapid gorge]

more that in the end they are just 'bigger buffers for gas' mechanically

[true junco]

Introducing even rudementary "equations of state" to Satisfactory would probably wreck even the most potent PC out there.

[vapid gorge]

which... sure? but they'd have to mess with buffers and gas a lot

[thorn remnant]

LMAO

[vapid gorge]

Fluid Dynamics are a bitch

[thorn remnant]

im so confused how all of this physics rlly can be run on my pc. istg the more i play this game the more i appreciate the coders of css. they did such a goood job

this might be one of the best coded game ive played

[amber jacinth]

okay, I just checked- I have 12m3 of gas to spare on 6 pure nodes, and the train trip is just under a click and a half.

[true junco]

As somebody who has been building compressors for Oil and Gas industry since 2011... i would love to have that in this game. I dont think 99% of players would like it tho, nor would 99% of computers be able to run it anymore either.