math-and-meta

[fierce ruin]

connect the middle extractor to left and right, where left and right both have individuaal pipes going to 4 gens each (180 water for 4 x 2 )

[fierce cypress]

(its also just pinned here)

[open mango]

you're no more a beginner after reading that giude

[snow dove]

reading a guide isn’t a substitute for actual experience

[fierce cypress]

^

[snow dove]

it definitely helps tho

[fierce cypress]

definitely

but don't force it onto people

[fierce ruin]

so i find this pdf guide on a wiki somewhere?

[fierce cypress]

check the pinned messages in this channel

[fierce ruin]

all good! can you guys tell me if i got this right?

[fierce cypress]

that setup sounds fine

[open mango]

no but experience from people that know what they talk about, is just what people is searching here. This guide is a must read

[snow dove]

ofc

[open mango]

folllow the page 6 on the guide, then apply it to your build > enjoy

[fierce ruin]

funny thing is, im learning more on logistics and math in satisfactory than marketing during this 4 hour online read-off-of-the-powerpoint type class im following on my 2nd monitor

[open mango]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/images/3/39/Pipeline_Manual.pdf

[fierce ruin]

this looks beautifully put together

[open mango]

🆗

[fierce cypress]

welcome to satisfactory

and it is a very good guide, mcgalleon is great

[snow dove]

the one place where math is enjoyable

[fierce cypress]

[snow dove]

“enjoyable”

i mean enjoyable in the most ironic and sarcastic way possible

[fierce ruin]

aaand done!

wow this is basically like 20 biofuel machines automated!

[wind spade]

what's that POV

[fierce ruin]

fully zoomed out so you could see the whole structure ahhahaah

my whole factory is infinitely fueled for now, yay!!

[open mango]

[deep cave]

Now try and double it for that sweet 1.2k power

[wind spade]

POV is not zoom 🤔

[vapid gorge]

more complex than it needs be but if it works it works

[barren hill]

Currently bringing 3 of the iron and the copper to the dune dessert for my first ever mega base (lets go) to make 1.5 heavy modular frames per minute (bc i want some overload of all the extra stuff used)

This is my first world that im trying to not go full spaghetti and actually try lol

[thorny cedar]

take your time calculate it twice make sure everything is tidy :3

[barren hill]

I have 60 extra (i think based on train input flow) but it was supposed to be 2 HMF / min but i wanted extra steel beams and extra incased beams so i underclocked it

Now i gotta take 240 copper for all my electronics and maybe start a turbo fuel factory (there is sulfur and oil and coal near by if not ill just make train (if i can figure out how to work those))

Idk im new lol

[delicate chasm]

That feeling when you go to change something and find Past You already future-proofed in case you made that decision later.

That Other Feeling when you are impressed by this but then open your inventory and see that you didn't even bring the materials to perform the upgrade that you ended up not needing to do.

You look back over your shoulder to see your Past Self giving you a dead eyed stare as it sips coffee from a golden mug.

You get back to work.

[wind spade]

one of the reasons I don't future-proof and don't change factories

[delicate chasm]

I can't even imagine getting that Look from my Past Self if my Past Self was you, greeny.

[wind spade]

wdym?

why would I future proof when I don't know how much I'd want in the future? 🤔

unless I plan the whole game from start ofc

[cinder silo]

Closest to that I'd do is overproduce and just let smart splitters overflow to sinks, easily changed much later.

[delicate chasm]

If I imagine my "past self" being disappointed with me, but then ALSO envision that past self being you instead of me. The joke here being that the "I already knew better" coming from you would hit harder.

[wind spade]

well in that situation I wouldn't go upgrade factory, so I wouldn't get looks from my past self 😛

[delicate chasm]

Yes... This is what I mean...

Also that comment I reacted to kind of implies the joke that you can relate to the "past self criticizing current self" and that that is the reason you avoid futureproofing, if that wasn't your meaning. =P

(That should make my follow-up make more sense)

[wind spade]

no, my reasoning is "I don't have to touch my factories if I plan the factories for that"

[delicate chasm]

What I did here was clocked the miner and constructors on a quartz node to what I actually needed at the time, but I belted it as though I were overclocking everything to 200%, anticipating that later I would use this much to build the factory.

It wasn't used in an automated chain before now.

[wind spade]

my reaction being "yeah I don't want to deal with my past factories, so I don't plan my factories to be upgradeable"

[delicate chasm]

So I am not really upgrading or changing a factory as much as I am now actually constructing it, having simply siphoned some hand crafting materials from the node before now.

But I thought the moment was an amusing meta moment so shared it.

[thorny cedar]

agree

i feel the same once its done i dont want to do it for the same part again

[wind spade]

um, I don't really do "one part per factory"

[delicate chasm]

I've been considering trying a restricted playthrough - no dismantle/changing recipes or other configurations. Once it's powered on for the first time, it must remain forever as it is. Exceptions for troubleshooting of course.

[wind spade]

I mean that's basically my way to play

you want X? make a factory that makes X from raw resources, ship it to storage
repeat for any other item

[delicate chasm]

Yeah. I've seen a few people describe that and it sounds like it wouldn't be fun, but I don't know that because I haven't tried it.

[wind spade]

main advantage is that you don't have factories depending on each other, so if you want to increase production, you don't have to touch 10 different factories, you just copy-paste the one you want to increase (or build a new/different one)

[median oyster]

Hi, for those who are advanced and have completed all the milestones and stages, how many mega watts does your save consume, all told?

[wind spade]

I mean that would heavily depend on how much the person built 🤔

[median oyster]

I'd rather have about

[oblique hollow]

hard to say. Can range from like..... 10000 MW range to a TW
Depends on how long you are willing to wait for products

[deft lichen]

"couple" TW as if you could reach 2 TW 😛

[oblique hollow]

fixed

[frosty owl]

What's the factory plan with the biggest power draw we know of?

[delicate chasm]

I cleared all milestones but NOT phase 4 on 1200MW with 8 power storage units.

For phase 4 I have 10,000MW (10GW) allocated with a diluted fuel setup. I anticipate, unless I change my mind about some stuff, ultimately needing about 35GW to keep everything I'm going to build running which during progression I did NOT do.

My max consumption was 2200 for most of the playthrough. Previous playthroughs never topped 6GW before unlocking everything.

For a single final output machine, calculated for the whole chain with the least energy efficient path?

[frosty owl]

@wind spade Could the one and only Tool solve a production plan for "max power draw"?

[wind spade]

hm 🤔

[delicate chasm]

I think it's gotta include SINK arrays with mk1 belts for the final step of ALL production lines...worse, you could split it to be the lowest possible parts/min rate that keeps a SINK continuously on between feeds.

[wind spade]

I mean technically just 406446874416387467 jump pads

I guess if it's really needed I could quickly hack something in beta and give you the answer for that question 🙂 but current tools can't do it, future tools may be able to (though I'm not sure if "make bad factory" is something worth spending time on 😄 )

[frosty owl]

[frosty owl]

"Really needed" would be a stretch ^^
It was just a curiosity

[thorny cedar]

i sink everything else i would like to sink the gws

[frosty owl]

I hope nobody brings up packaging-unpackaging next

[thorny cedar]

just bp power storage and delete after its full

[delicate chasm]

Biggest draw on a full-auto factory I think is the point. To get the number Sushi's actually curious about requires being a good sport about a few things like that.

One assumption needs to be that every step actually does PRODUCE, to prevent packaging/unpackaging in a loop and stuff like that.

[wind spade]

~~well packaging and unpackaging is a full-auto factory 😄 ~~

[delicate chasm]

Indeed. And splitting everything to SINK as slowly as possible to burn energy is another 'valid' thing but I think defeats the purpose.

[frosty owl]

Quite.
I'm thinking the "max coupon" production plan could be a good candidate for "max power draw", but can't be certain it would take the first place

[wind spade]

not sure about that

would have to check on custom beta version I guess

[delicate chasm]

The biggest total of late-game machines clocked to the highest speeds while achieving resource balance is what I assume would get you the biggest number of the kind you're actually looking for.

[frosty owl]

The scale of the plan kinda makes it difficult to make accurate guesses with brainpower alone

[delicate chasm]

Sinking excess that doesn't exceed 30MW for the sum total of processing.

[wind spade]

maxed sink actually leaves tons of nitrogen unused

[frosty owl]

"Achieving resource balance"?

[delicate chasm]

Not leaving a bunch of a given resource (like nitrogen) available on the map

Balance of the resources that are being consumed, I mean.

[wind spade]

what if leaving resources actually uses more power? 🤔

[thorny cedar]

back to hunting and gathering

0 power is infinitly worse in this calculation

[frosty owl]

That's what I'm saying: the scale is too big to make accurate guesses
Imo, it's not impossible for such a production plan to surprise us all with some "unexpected" recipe choices or whatnot

[fierce ruin]

it could be done simple? 😮

[fierce ruin]

that sounds even BETTER

[wind spade]

yeah I remember when I started working on what currently is SFTools, that the algorithm for optimisation surprised me pretty much daily

always finding some weird ways to optimise production even further

[vapid gorge]

only by a bit. The top schematic for example - much less fiddly

[median heath]

My method.

[delicate chasm]

I like Sev's also - I do 1 extractor with 4 generators right away in some games; it's more than enough to finish whatever I thought I was accomplishing on biomass. 🤘
But then sometimes biomass because just build the real generator array, Avelon...

[fierce ruin]

that was my initial buiild, but the mk1 pipes only handle 300 not 360 from 3 water extractors

[wind spade]

that's why the extractors are split

and one is at each end and one in the middle

no pipe section exceeds 300

[fierce ruin]

huuh

whats the logic there? when i tried that but slightly differently, it didn't work

[median heath]

no pipe section exceeds 300

This is the logic

[fierce ruin]

looking at my example, why did mine do

[median heath]

Where is your example?

(Screenshot of actual in-game build would be much better)

[fierce ruin]

yeah i followed a video lemme get a screenshot

[median heath]

||People really gotta stop following videos..||

[wind spade]

this should be fine

[fierce ruin]

nothing wrong with following videos

[wind spade]

except up-to-dateness 🙂

[median heath]

Look up how many times someone having an issue is clarified by "I followed a video" then come back to me with the "nothing wrong" statement 🙂

[wind spade]

and sometimes straight up wrong information

best is to just look at wiki

[fierce ruin]

wdym? 😄

[fierce ruin]

right

[median heath]

Also, in the above setup, did you wait until the pipes and generators were completely full of water before turning it on?

[median heath]

I don't know how else to state what I stated.

[fierce ruin]

oh yeah the guy mentioned that, i had issues with that cause i didnt know i had to kickstart the water extractors with a biomass burner

atleast thats how i did that,

and i think i had the coal extractors running as well

eventually water did fill up but only 6/8 coal gens

that's when i changed my setup

[median heath]

Until you figure out fluids, it is best to just let the entire system water up before you introduce a single piece of coal into it.

[fierce ruin]

by using an external power source right?

that isn't coal*

[median heath]

Yes, you have to provide power to buildings that need power.

[fierce ruin]

didnt need to put it like that 😂

[vapid gorge]

Oh yeah but the way it’s split means no point has more than 300. You did the same thing but with an extra pipe before it

[fierce ruin]

ahhh gotcha!

[lean elk]

i can count to 4

[prisma kraken]

its so nice when all the effort you put into building trains actually starts to pay off:

[thorny cedar]

i just use a merger and a small container as load/unload buffer for a single belt... half the buffered items gone in the long run

if i have more then 780 items per minute in a single wagon i use a large container

[median oyster]

How u make 1TW?

[wind spade]

using nuclear

[lethal prism]

train will be coming from the 3 lines on the right side here, and merging and moving to the left. will the switch being on the wrong side cause issues? if so, how do i get it on the right side?

Edit: just realised this is a stupid question, nvm

[rigid turtle]

i have a homebrew tool that can calculate that, do you mean "max power draw" as in "produce the most power" or as in "use the most power" (since you can waste power!)

[wind spade]

use the most power but not do things like packaging/unpackaging loops

[rigid turtle]

hmm

[prisma kraken]

that's 4 mk3 miners worth of stuff, don't need the capacity of the large container but do need the 2 belt inputs

technically i could use a single belt for the normal and 1 impure node i'm moving, but i'd rather just build such things as a standard pattern

[rigid turtle]

ok so this will be slightly inaccurate because it doesn't utilize all resource nodes but I'm getting 1742558 MW burned. but i'm not sure if it's right because it decides to destroy 15199/min of concrete, 211/min of computers, 31014/min of copper sheet, 6972/min of bauxite, 13385/min of Smart Plating, and 224/min of plutonium waste, and it also doesn't max out nitrogen usage

[thorny cedar]

is it still about power usage? what is this number?

[wind spade]

max sink points doesn't max out nitrogen

[thorny cedar]

i dont understand :c

[rigid turtle]

use the most power but not do things like packaging/unpackaging loops

[wind spade]

so I wouldn't be surprised if other maximums didn't use max nitrogen either

[rigid turtle]

yeah but for the purposes of wasting energy, i feel like nitrogen should be maxxed

but it seems limited by the maximum energy output

so that might be the reason

probably is the reason

yeah if you quadruple the number of uranium nodes, it maxes out nitrogen

fun stuff

[median oyster]

with uranium

[thorny cedar]

and plutonium

[median oyster]

for 1TW it's huge

[thorny cedar]

uran itself in its most eff config just ammounts to 630gw

but the most eff energy combination was a diff plut ress

and you burn everything

[median oyster]

so we can't make 1TW from clean neclaire (recycling waste after transforming it into pluto).

[thorny cedar]

not without oil energy no

the cap for green nucl is 630

[median oyster]

okay

ie using all the deposits?

[wind spade]

unless you burn the plutonium as well, then you can get 1.19 TW

[thorny cedar]

all the deposits using the most eff rec yea

[median oyster]

what recipes?

i guess this

[thorny cedar]

uranium fuel unit and fused uranium cell

[median oyster]

I think it's this one. You forgot the 'In'?

[thorny cedar]

this and the uranium fuel units yea

[median oyster]

u dont use Alternate: Fertile Uranium?

[thorny cedar]

no

not if you want max power out of your uranium and sink the plutonium

[median oyster]

ok

[prisma kraken]

woohoo, i actually found a real use-case for the truck!!!

[thorny cedar]

?

[prisma kraken]

i need to move 2100/min coke across the crater lakes plain

i can do so with one truck and two stations at either end

first thing i've found that probably actually makes use of the extra capacity of the truck

[thorny cedar]

yea biggest invetory for a single unit :3

[barren hill]

Noice

[thorny cedar]

did you foundation the road?

[prisma kraken]

tbd... i have a bit of a infrastructure project going in crater lakes, and things are getting a little tight

the truck essentiall just needs to do a loop between the vantage point and the oil refinery on the far end:

we'll see, i have a lot of factory to build, but there's not much of a reason to build a road besides asthetics, imho

[thorny cedar]

i gave up on my last truck-kun advneture he could haul 1560 ore per minute for the lenght of the track but i would have need 2 more and they are not that good in curves if they are to fast 😦

[prisma kraken]

i may even be able to pull off the round trip with a tractor, but i think that may be pushing it

[thorny cedar]

so i just trained double head with 6 wagons for 6 pure notes

well

[prisma kraken]

yeah, a simple push-pull train is another option i'm entertaining

i do also have to move a combined 1200/min rubber & plastic across the field

[thorny cedar]

yea its to far for belt but to short for the main line

and to long either but it takes some more power

[prisma kraken]

the other thing is i'm just running out of space for train stations

[thorny cedar]

still wip but you can see it better

i sandwich them inside my factories ;D

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'm building on the ground though

[thorny cedar]

me to but up tho

[prisma kraken]

i'm trying my best to have rails follow the terrain and not be super-elevated

in general, i'm pretty pleased on how the routes i've picked are shaping up:

routing stuff up into the pink forest has been giving me quite a few headaches though

[thorny cedar]

yea you see the ramp in the midlle the train coming down from the red forest crossing the crater lake 😄

[prisma kraken]

that's really a tricky spot

[thorny cedar]

in the planning phase i was thinking about just tunneling the red forest plateau

build the trains underground

design tunnel entrances were you clip out of the ground

and feed the rec from the top

[prisma kraken]

its viable to do so, even without resorting to clipping

[thorny cedar]

but i gave up on that

[prisma kraken]

honestly, you can access the cave that runs from rocky desert down to twin lakes from a number of places in pink forest

where you pass by the 2 pure quartz, on the way down to the 4 normal coal at the lake

there's even a nice little route to pull the uranium down to the quartz

i think i'm going to be gathering that via train, but not really thinking about nuclear yet

i just built 15 gw of fuel power with the crater lakes oil's leftover hor, and not yet using it

should probably be enough power to finish what i want to build at crater lakes

which is essentially going to process all the pf bauxite into cooling systems, batteries & fmf's

what's bugging me atm is that i'm leaving a bit of copper & caterium on the table

btw, if i do a little push-pull rail, i should be able to fit 800/min plastic into a single car, right?

[thorny cedar]

depending on the distance most likly

[prisma kraken]

in lieu of that truck

the thing is that i don't need to move only 2100 coke, but 400 rubber & 800 plastic too

[thorny cedar]

it can fit

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i figured as much

that'll probably be cleaner than 3 trucks derping into one another

[thorny cedar]

and if you make it single car just tell it to wait until empty

no balancer needed

[prisma kraken]

that won't work for this because each car will be a different rate of consumption

[thorny cedar]

oh yea if you combine the 800 plastic and 400 rubber into 2 wgons yea

[prisma kraken]

i think i would want it to be 5 cars; 3 for coke @clever idol6/min, one for rubber @tawny sundial, 1 for plastic @800/min

[wind spade]

poor guys getting pinged

[thorny cedar]

hahahaha

[prisma kraken]

sorry, lol

its their damn fault for picking dumb handles, lol

the only minus to doing the train is that i'll not have the activity of some vehicles puttering around

[thorny cedar]

you could make them double headed 2 way single wagon wait until empty trains D:

[prisma kraken]

well, its not a rebuild to try the wait setting and see if that works, but it'll work fine without changing the default wait behavior

[thorny cedar]

yea i just memed a bit

i dont use the wait function for side track either

just for the main system

to minimize moving trains on grid

[prisma kraken]

but 2 5-car stations for a push pull should be doable here:

[thorny cedar]

sure you want to build on the ground but you can hang the track sideways from the cliff tho D;

saves some space

[prisma kraken]

nah, i'll pass on making things more complicated, i've been at this build for a while already

its not so much the build itself, though it IS large, its that i'm building the rail stuff at the same time and that just is what it is 🙂

[worldly salmon]

Hey, anybody know exact numbers to hyper tube entrances for optimum distance on launch from hypertube cannons? 45 degree launches obviously? Iv been fiddling with ideas for a while

[prisma kraken]

it actually is very depended on altitude of the cannon, and believe it or not, your frame rate

[crimson osprey]

oh no

[worldly salmon]

Its dependant on Altitude?

[prisma kraken]

well, yeah, you start at a higher altitude, you go farther

[worldly salmon]

I know fps can affect stuff like this

[wind spade]

it depends on so many things and probably will change in U8 anyway

personally I wouldn't build cannons at all, there's enough good transportation options

[snow dove]

cannons attached to proper tubes are great

faster and more reliable than cannons

[thorny cedar]

i use 18 to cover a distance of ~3.5 km but setting it up was try and error

[prisma kraken]

some rough numbers for you about cannons that are just from my experience... 16 entrances is a good starting cannon and is a little on the weak side

[wind spade]

I mean even that is abusing of the (unintended) game mechanic 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

32 entrances is about where it'll yeet you off the map

[snow dove]

unintended but intentionally being left in

[worldly salmon]

Ok... so im hearing 14-20 entrances to zip

[thorny cedar]

yea thats a good starting point

[wind spade]

I very much think they'll replace it with a proper system once they get over UE5

[prisma kraken]

you can fit 16 into a bp, that's a good starting point

[snow dove]

doubt it

at least not in U8

[wind spade]

they did the same with soft collision

[worldly salmon]

I might just use actual tubes, instead of cannons

[wind spade]

once they get over UE5

[snow dove]

ue5≠u8

[thorny cedar]

you can hypercanon into a tube

[worldly salmon]

I know, thats the plan

[prisma kraken]

its something you have to play with and tune for your needs, there's no really firm numbers anyone can give you

[wind spade]

UE5 is part of U8 🤷‍♂️ but w/e, we both know what we're talking about

[worldly salmon]

Just going from SE corner of map, to NW is a pain...

[snow dove]

i genuinely thought you meant in U8 once they get ue5 working fairly well

[wind spade]

no, I meant "once they finish working on UE5", which is basically "release U8"

[prisma kraken]

if you actually want to get some data from someone that experiments with them quite a lot, talk to @cinder silo

[snow dove]

Got it

[worldly salmon]

Ty peeps for info, have fun

[thorny cedar]

thats why i build a canon in graslands.... some ppl dont want to walk into the swamp i want to get shot into it ;D

[snow dove]

i also did some work with what design is the best

one sec lemme find it

#math-and-meta message

[prisma kraken]

for me, i have very bad luck with cannons... mostly because i don't have a great computer, and my fps is on the low side, i'll use a number of other fast transit methods over cannons

mostly i perfer trains, ziplines and conveyor jumps

with a little soft spot for launching yourself with a pile of pulse nobelisks b/c its fun

i think in general that is a little more reliable than cannons, tbh though it eats some health

[delicate chasm]

With creature hostility turned off, pulse jumps became the only reason I had inhalers last time I was playing. I didn't do power towers for ziplining until they fixed the angle changes in one of the patches and I think that was around the time you were talking about them here.

[barren elm]

It's "carry parts for a train -> build it and set destination -> tab out" for me

[cinder silo]

The vast majority of my cannon testing was in U6 & U7, the physics behind them got kind of mauled in U8 which has invalidated a ton of experiments right now, I'm waiting for a bit before re-running the majority of it.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the angles still aren't quite right for the power towers

[modern lance]

I just recently found a new way to make a cannon with one entrance, but im still expirimenting with varying distance

works in U8 expirimental so far

I've been struggling with making it not shoot you across the map(currently im just holding S like my life depends on it), and I've got some ideas I need to try out when I get home

[stoic gorge]

can someone help me please

its going 60 steel pipes on the input

but for these 3 machines i just need 45

and i want 15 to go to storage

so i made a splittler going to the conveyor wall to go to a storage

is it going to work?

because on the first splitter it will go 20 to each side

[modern lance]

I don't think youll get full throughput in the last machine, I think if you put the 60 belt in the middle it should overflow out the wall once your machines fill up

[stoic gorge]

i thought that too

if i change the input to the belt at right it ill work too right?

[modern lance]

Yeah that sounds right

[thorny cedar]

you can either split in 2 and split one of the 2 into another two aswell so you get 15 and merge the other 15 with the remaining 30... or you wait until your storage is full itll back up if you dont sink it at some point

aka "good enough"

or you could use a smartsplit

overflow into your storage after the machines are filled

[vapid gorge]

yeah once storage is full it'll work fine - you can use the MAM to unlock smart splitters though and only send overflow to storage

effectively making your machines the priority for feeding

[thorny cedar]

OR

you could start the belt to your storage after the last splitter to your machine

[vapid gorge]

depending on the system it might still not get it to 100% before the storage is full.

[thorny cedar]

60... 15 15 15 15

[vapid gorge]

It might in this situation? not going to dive into it though xD

yeaahhh? that sounds right? migrain is making things hard

sounds reasonable and you're probably more with it than I am atm

[thorny cedar]

even then

[vapid gorge]

not suuuuuper confident on much rn

[thorny cedar]

i did plumber work all day long D:

but my pipes look shiny now

[vapid gorge]

something something euphamism joke

[thorny cedar]

no i ment it

i was a plumber all day and my pipes look good now :c

[vapid gorge]

oh I sure, but I'm running about bout 10% capacity. I wish I could use the joke set up properly

[vapid gorge]

I should probably learn some basic plumbing to do some things around the house but.. the effort right now

[stoic gorge]

thanks men

[stoic gorge]

but this works too?

just to make sure because thats what i did

[vapid gorge]

I don't understand what you mean by that

[stoic gorge]

there are three splittlers

the input is going to the left splittler

if i change it to the right

thats what i did

[vapid gorge]

I don't think you're describing it well. From the image it looks like the incoming pipes are like this

the left is going.. somewhere? and forward and right feeds machines?

[stoic gorge]

wait

i ll go there and send a screenshot of what i did

[vapid gorge]

saying you 'changed' the right input isn't useful either. Changed how?

[vapid gorge]

right yeah that looks like what Haili suggested which means it should spin up normally

I still recommend unlocking smart splitters in the MAM. Very useful

[stoic gorge]

what it does?

i thought i could choose how many would split to each sidie

but it looks like it isnt

[vapid gorge]

Like I said above - you can change what goes through different exits - so you could set one side to 'overflow'

that way you could make sure all the machines get fed first, and any overflow gets sent somewhere else

[stoic gorge]

oh thats cool

[vapid gorge]

yeah unlock all the MAM stuff. It's good

[modern lance]

What would be the best way to package up a bunch of testing videos/screenshots and put it here? I've figured out a variable distance hypercannon with just one entrance in U8

[prisma kraken]

that probably would be better documented on reddit or something

[modern lance]

Dang, was hoping not to need that

thanks lad

[cobalt magnet]

um... a YouTube playlist?

just smack an imgur albun in the description or something

or simply add screenshots to a video

[modern lance]

I ended up just making a blueprint with directions on how to use it, figured people aren't too concerned with how it works

[prisma kraken]

cool

[coral oak]

You can sort of control how much you split by using conveyor belts of different levels, but I rarely do so.

[prisma kraken]

usually the backpressure from consuming machines will even out uneven splits

[coral oak]

Yeah I know. Usually have the machines even out the production themselves

[hidden viper]

idk if this is the place for it, but can someone help me understand how?

[delicate chasm]

What're you needing to know? Looks like you have a coal gen array up and running now; congrats!

[hidden viper]

how is the max consump lower then the actual consump?

[delicate chasm]

Interesting. I have only ever seen this with biomass burners and only as a single-tick spike (that blows the fuse, but upon restarting works normally).

[modern lance]

Could just be a bug with U8, I've been having random spikes of like 6 MW production increase

[hidden viper]

its a U8 server ive just moved to, so i kinda expected some oddities, but this is consistant

[hidden viper]

i could understand some spike, but this is just confusing

[delicate chasm]

Some machine probably not being unregistered after being dismantled by a client or some similar hard to track down bug like that then. MP is...MP.

[frosty owl]

Oddities can sometimes be consistent
Adding to what The Avelon said, it could be a bug stemming from overclocked machines (eg: the max-consumption going off the 100% data, while the consumption is accurate to the machines' clocks)

[delicate chasm]

Oof, yeah, that too - and I wouldn't have thought of that one for hours.

[hidden viper]

im fairly early game, and need to rework most of the mmachines, so ill just dismantle until i find the issue

[frosty owl]

Re-wiring machines might be enough to fix it

[delicate chasm]

This isn't the channel for trying to reform American voters. Use #off-topic-media and #off-topic-general

[hidden viper]

im not even overclocking, only underclocking

[frosty owl]

That makes me think it's not a clock thing then

[hidden viper]

turns out it was the water extractor

you were right that a rewire fixed it

[modern lance]

Got some guidelines here to show how to build it, super compact hypercannon. Works with U8. Just look down and hold W into it, you'll know when to let go

The distance can be selected but that's too much to put here

[prisma kraken]

I didn't realize last evening that you were talking about this behavior.... I'd wait for u8 to hit EA before writing it up because they may make some htube fixes still

[modern lance]

Eh, already did the tests and figured out the mechanics mostly, but once it does come to EA I'll check again and see if it still works

Still fun to use for now

[thorny cedar]

if it does 😄 but itll be nice

[winged sleet]

know if this works in U7 too? so far it's not for me but maybe I'm missing something

[modern lance]

No I haven't tested in U7

[frosty owl]

You shouldn't expect the same behaviour in physics between U7 and U8

[modern lance]

It's probably something with UE5

I've got a decent idea of how to make it do what you want, but how it actually works is beyond me

[wind spade]

just use intended modes of transport instead

[delicate chasm]

Why though?

[modern lance]

Just makes life easier to use go fast machines

[wind spade]

@fierce ruin see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[fierce ruin]

ahh i see

where does one find the choices

[wind spade]

wdym?

[fierce ruin]

like should i post the options here? or are they already here

[wind spade]

no, if you click the link I've posted, it takes you to a message that you should read 🙂

[fierce ruin]

ohh alr thanks alot

alr thanks so much 😄

lemme poof the screenshot rq

[chilly elm]

i have 20 nuclear generators max overclocked how am i producing more power than 125000(6250*20)??

127694.2MW

its completly isolated build nothing else connected

[snow dove]

it isnt completely isolated

[median heath]

🎶 Why'd you have to go and make things so isolated? 🎶

[oblique hollow]

weird how there's a constant of 2694.2 MW on everything

that doesnt seem right. Production, consumptiom, max conaumption, capacity.... all have a 2694.2 MW anomaly

[chilly elm]

oh got it it was the biomass gens left

[chilly elm]

just testing stability and capacity

[modern lance]

Bro was making 2694 MW with BIOMASS?

[prisma kraken]

glad you found the cause, another possibility is that trains have regenerative braking, which can cause small fluctations in the positive direction

(I sorta wonder why they even bothered to code that into the game, lol)

[chilly elm]

whaaa

really??

[prisma kraken]

yeah, according to the wiki at least, really its so minor of a thing that you barely can see it in a power graph

[lethal prism]

Might be useful if you heavily rely on batteries to keep your grid online, if your consumption is close to max production

Still gonna need a lot of trains to notice i guess, but that also increases consumption again XD

How much is the max power that generates?

[vapid gorge]

you never get more power from the recycle than what you do for the train route so it won't be charging anything

[lethal prism]

No i know, but the spare power that it generates can be stored and used later when your consumption goes over production. I guess that in rare cases it can be a nice side effect

Not saying that you should build extra trains in order to get more regenerative braking, i understand that that won’t work XD

[wind spade]

well you should build more power if you have issues with power 🙂

[lethal prism]

Yeah fair

[wind spade]

I personally never found the need to build storages, you can spend the time building power plan instead and have reliable power instead of just a buffer

[lethal prism]

I guess i would like to try a save where i constantly live on the edge of killing my grid though, seems like a fun challenge

[lethal prism]

I mainly use the to online new power productions. My fuel project consumes about 12GW iirc, but my old grid only supported 8GW

[thorny cedar]

thats a diff usecase and has not much to do with the power storage when you get overcapacity :c depending on the scale i would not reccomend the first usecase tho

[lethal prism]

Yea the regen braking will be useless for the majority of players, i can see it being useful in some scenarios though

[boreal summit]

yeah I think its biggest use for batteries is in restarting power plants if they fail

[thorny cedar]

i dont want to rely on power storage on a max production build bcs of energy fluctuations in consumption

[lethal prism]

Oh regen braking generates up to 8 MW excess power, i take this back, it’s useless

8MW is nothing lol

[boreal summit]

I think the regen braking is only there to lessen the impact of the train's total power consumption

that's how it's used in real world electric vehicle applications

[prisma kraken]

according to the wiki: ```By holding the key opposite of current travel direction (S or W) , the Locomotive will use the regenerative brake. The regenerative brake will, depending on the current speed of the locomotive, generate up to 33 MW. By subtracting the base demand of 25 MW, this results in a net power gain of up to 8 MW.

[lethal prism]

Yea that’s what i just read and caused me to change my mind :p

I expected it to be at least a little more

[prisma kraken]

i don't even understand why they coded it into the game

[thorny cedar]

bc breaking takes force

the base train power is just to keep him running

[prisma kraken]

but just taking a second to pat myself on the back, i'm finally making batteries!

[thorny cedar]

max cons uphill is way more tho

[prisma kraken]

i don't know why its in the game, maybe to just flatten out the power demand of rails?

[boreal summit]

that's basically the only real use for it in any application

you're never going to get out more than you put in with that kind of system

While you can hit peaks of 8MW extra at the fastest speed, if you average that out over the entire travel time you're still going to be using at least some power

[thorny cedar]

even on flat terrain takes a train prob more power to accelerate then to break

why do we have this talk about break power?

or does it?

maybe its the exact counterweight in mw/h idk

[prisma kraken]

i'm not going to overanalyze it... trains just use a little less power than you'd thing, lol

one thing i'm pretty certain of, however is that many people calculate way higher power demand than trains really use

[thorny cedar]

highest demands for trains are the stations for me

as usual 1 station block is 50mw you need at least 2 thats almost a fully pwered train and he still does not have a wagon

[lethal prism]

I mean the freight platforms only use the 50 MW when loading/unloading

So on average they use way less, you gotta have a pretty populated train line to make them use even 25MW average

[thorny cedar]

every station demands 50mw flat

regardless if active used or not

[lethal prism]

Train station yeah, but freight platforms don’t

At rest freight platforms only consume 0.1MW

[prisma kraken]

yeah, when using trains, your max consumption goes way up, but actually use barely budges

atm, i have a 7 gw delta between max and used for what i'm designing to be an always-on build

at some point i might put the trains on their own separate grid

i think the world geotherm is enough production for that

[thorny cedar]

at least i have to wait for update 8 for that bcs trains power my world

and doing 100 meter powerline nope ty nop

[lethal prism]

Why though? If you want geotherm to power your trains just hook both up to your main net. You’ll have to make power lines all over the place if you want to do separate grids

[prisma kraken]

if you keep fluctuating stuff on its own grid, you can spot production problems on the main grid easier

[lethal prism]

Fair enough

[prisma kraken]

well, that's that, i got 100/min of batteries cooking this evening

which isn't all that much, but that's only the first 1/8th of what i'm building

[thorny cedar]

the self filling base rec of bat i set up is still going strong after 300 hours

its still art and i dont dare to even look at it

[frosty owl]

Flat is justice

[prisma kraken]

big fan of flat power usage 🙂

[frosty owl]

I've been keeping the grids separate from the start in my SIS playthrough so far (Steel).
It makes troubleshooting each new factory so incredibly easy...

Though it does mean having 2 sets of cable instead of 1 going around, it's not all that much work...

[prisma kraken]

i go through now & then and clean stuff up when i feel like it, i'm not as careful as i should be, but when the consumption line starts getting wavy, i figure out what's causing it

without some manner of productivity or monitoring display, its about all you have in the game

[thorny cedar]

you can somewhat monitor your prod and cons in scim

but idk if it even works proper i just saw the charts

[prisma kraken]

scim's facility for that is a little janky

it looks at the machine settings and prod rates, not the machine efficiency

[thorny cedar]

and it shows overproduction and cons somewhat

or potential production whos not powered

something along those lines

[prisma kraken]

a lot of cases make its math look strange

[frosty owl]

It takes into account the machines, their recipes and clock and the if they have power aviable or not

Technically it also knows what machine is in which power network, but that's irrelevant other than knowing if power aviable is enough or not

[quaint gull]

Hi, I have tried to calculate the parts per minute transported a minute to my factory using a algareic expression, here it is if A= parts mine and B = minutes it takes to transport, and C = is parts per minute needed, would A divided by B over C get the parts per minute transported to my factory? I am actively taking algebra, so It would be much apreciated. Thanks!

[barren hill]

I'm also new to the game but usually at the train station or the truck station it should tell u how much you are outflowing each trip? That's the number which would be your C so techinally you wouldn't need any math unless your trying to figure out how many trucks or trains you would need. Does that help?

[quaint gull]

Yea, probally should have checked that lol, Thanks!

[barren hill]

Nah ur good.

[barren hill]

What tier r u on?

[stoic gorge]

can someone explain me the diference?

between these 4

[quaint gull]

6, I have been leening towards conver buses, alot

[wind spade]

open codex to see

[barren hill]

Yeah I did too, but trains r awesome, bc they can get up to (techinally) 960 items per minute up at in put and output. And that's per freight car

[barren hill]

One takes only oil, the other takes other soemthing else

[stoic gorge]

thanks, i could figure it out

[true junco]

2 of them are the easy/first way to make plastic and rubber. The others are part of the path that makes the most plastic and rubber per crude oil, but you really need a bunch of other alt recipies to accomplish it.

[wind spade]

The others one other

[true junco]

HOR, D(p)F, recycled rubber and recycled plastic. Thats definitely more than 1 other alt.

[stoic gorge]

bro

how do i do fabric

in codex it says that it has no recipe

[boreal summit]

Mycelia tree in MAM

[stoic gorge]

what is this

i dont have this on my mam

[boreal summit]

In the MAM building, research mycelia

It's one that you haven't found yet, then

[stoic gorge]

oh

[boreal summit]

have to go out and find some mushrooms

[stoic gorge]

i thought it was a category

where is it?

[boreal summit]

It is, but it doesn't show up in the MAM until you find that resource

[stoic gorge]

in sulfur?

[boreal summit]

Mushrooms can most often be found in caves

No, it's a standalone category

[stoic gorge]

i ll search for it

[boreal summit]

It just doesn't show up in the list until you find that resource, just like the others

it's one of the hidden categories in the list

[tropic cape]

Just go look around in caves and you'll find it

[stoic gorge]

what does it looks like?

[boreal summit]

like mushrooms

[stoic gorge]

you can eat it?

[boreal summit]

they can be little red ones covering the floor or big blue or green ones you can chop down with chainsaw

honestly I never tried

the resource icon itself is just a grey blob basically

Once it's in your inventory

[tropic cape]

Or little blue ones on the floor too

[boreal summit]

Either way, it'll be a mushroom thing that highlights when you look at it like bushes or trees

[tropic cape]

Just look at mushrooms on the ground until it says press E to pick up

[boreal summit]

There's also some large mushroom "trees" in some biomes. Basically anything that looks weird, alien, and kinda bulbous growing in forests are probably mushrooms.

[stoic gorge]

ok

[boreal summit]

you can always check the wiki if you want to see what they look like

[stoic gorge]

its this?

[boreal summit]

Might be, I don't remember if they give mycelia as well

Chop it down and find out

There's several different things that give mycelia

[stoic gorge]

yea this doesnt give nothing

i ll try other things here

it actually gives

but my inventory was full

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that coral stuff fills your inventory with limestone & silica

[barren elm]

Swamp is a great source of mycelia too

[prisma kraken]

there's quite a bit of it if you know where to look... nearly every cave in the game has a few stacks worth of it if you have the chainsaw

that coral stuff yields a lot, and things like the dead wooden trees give little bits

i usually end up filling an ISC or two with it during a play-through, which is enough if you wish to use it for fabric

i think just about every starting location in GF, RD & NF has a small cave that has enough mycelia in it to satisfy the mam research requirements... DD is a little different in that you need to harvest it from those trees near the oasis that make driving a vehicle difficult

[queen slate]

Yeah, in a lot of caves there are mycelia sources. Some plants/shrooms that can give mycelia:

[thorny cedar]

and as already said in the swamp it just lays around as pickable

[median heath]

<- also a source of mycelia

[deft lichen]

only under the condition that you let it live though

[jovial lake]

In your manifolds?

[thorny cedar]

hes right

[wind spade]

@fierce ruin see this (side view)

ramp is just always shorter than spiral

[jovial lake]

pythagorean theorem 👍

not to mention the additional distance from the spiral itself

[wind spade]

indeed

(and the slowdown from turns on the spiral)

[jovial lake]

oh right, I didn't see the doggo icon on my phone discord

so theoretically all of those listed resources are sort of randomly infinitely and automatically available.... now..... if someone were to invent a machine that can suck in doggos and process the item it's carrying 🤔

[stoic gorge]

i can't understand why my consume is so low compared to the max im sure that at least 90% of the things are 100% efficient

[thorny cedar]

idk what you have and what you use but if it bothers you we could go into detail

[stoic gorge]

it bother me that i can't see whats wrong

[thorny cedar]

can you provide me a screenshot of the scim of your machines?

we can try and find out

[stoic gorge]

im sorry but what is scim

im not american and on google i didnt find the meaning too

[thorny cedar]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/

[snow dove]

specifically the interactive map

[thorny cedar]

you can upload your savefile there and got all sorts of analytics

[stoic gorge]

oh ok

[snow dove]

basically you have stuff connected to the grid that can consume power but isn’t

basically run around looking for yellow lights

btw trains and train stations are factored in

[stoic gorge]

im with the game open rn, i can upload now and it will be updated?

[thorny cedar]

you can even make a save right now and upload this without closing yea

[stoic gorge]

ok

what exactly do you want screenshot?

the main factory is this

[thorny cedar]

and whats your production at i mean are you rly using 90% of all the extractors minders and all or the machines?

[stoic gorge]

most of the miners are 97% or 100%

[thorny cedar]

click on statistic in scim right upper corner and all the bars need to meet in the middle all of them

[stoic gorge]

but some of then aren't working but its just iron and copper basics because the storage is full

[thorny cedar]

and it need to be full color at least if you clocked it right they should all meet almot in the middle

[stoic gorge]

i didnt really understand this graphic

[thorny cedar]

so it shows you what you can produce with all the machines hooked up to power

if they are not powered the graph is lighter

caterium gets produced but not consumed for example

so thats power you waste idk

you produce a potential of 1440 coal but got a potential use of 1200

[stoic gorge]

yea its a factory im still working on

[thorny cedar]

and its always only the potential if everything is hooked up to everything it becomes the total

[thorny cedar]

it counts to the powergrid as everything else

[stoic gorge]

so in iron ore for example, my miners at clock I set them can produce 1680 iron ores, but im only using 1432 of these ores

im correct?

[thorny cedar]

with the machines currently yes

but it disregards if they are in the same loop

if the machines are placed diff side of the world it just counts together

[stoic gorge]

why this have a thumb down if im using everything?

[thorny cedar]

and if you got machines hooked up who get feed from a container it counts them aswell but they also show up in the power grid

[thorny cedar]

bcs floats

idk its just the program cant handle

there is no thumb square ;D

[stoic gorge]

wdym

[thorny cedar]

would you feel better if they would how 720 720 thumbs up?

[stoic gorge]

this too for example, i checked here and its still coming industrial beam to my storage

[stoic gorge]

i just didnt understand what this thumbs down mean

[thorny cedar]

yea you produce 6

[stoic gorge]

and the 0 units per minute means what

[thorny cedar]

even if the storage is full itll show u you produce 6 but you get a grasp of where u expend energy and where you idle your machin es

you dont consume any of them

[stoic gorge]

you mean, i dont use industrial beam for anything just for going to storage

[thorny cedar]

you got?

and yes

there are some exaptions

idk about coal or burnables you burn

but batteries dont show as waste if used

[stoic gorge]

im still a bit confused

[thorny cedar]

bcs drones

[stoic gorge]

but im starting to understand

[stoic gorge]

what do you mean by burn

[thorny cedar]

producing energy

[stoic gorge]

like use it for fuel to tractors is burn?

[thorny cedar]

what do u understand by burn?

at least try

[stoic gorge]

ingame idk exactly what this means

[thorny cedar]

what is this imagine talk now?

can u imagine

[stoic gorge]

yes

[thorny cedar]

good you are on your own now

[delicate chasm]

It's subjective, but I have determined that 20/min is the ideal output rate for almost all items tiers 1-6, until you get alts at least.

It's not mathematical because it's not a constant and it's subjective, but I think I can make an argument for answering "How many foo should I make?" with "Start calculating from 20 and see how close that is to what you need." Also this is subjective and my opinion, in case it was not clear that I am not speaking definitively.

The short explanation for why is that with tier 1-2 items and mk1-3 belts, these numbers will be close to what you can do with your currently unlocked milestones. 20 iron plates from 1 impure iron node before splitters, 20 RIP requires 2x120/min or 4x60/min iron ore as well as 2x120/min or 4x60/min screws. Your max belt speed is 120 at this point.

The numbers check out until but not including nuclear, with only a little bit of deviation plus or minus.

20 HMF notably requires several lines or constructors in the manifold until you get alts, for example.

It all goes out the window when you're just building factories in the end game, but that's fine because in the end game there is no longer a reason to ask the question 'how many should I make?' because there is no longer a resource goal.

[wind spade]

until you get alts at least
you should get them before building production 🙂

[delicate chasm]

More importantly I think the people asking this need to understand a different point:

Some parts are supporting role actors. Wire for example I did not mention; 20/min wire is ridiculously slow.

[wind spade]

20/min wire is fine if you're making it for storage imo

[delicate chasm]

Oh sure, for storage. I agree with that.
It's overall a low number compared to any time I've made it though, given that it's 30/min output by default I think from 1 constructor.

[wind spade]

well if you're "making wire" as part of production of other thing, I don't count that as "making wire"

[delicate chasm]

Exactly, it's a supporting role actor type of part in those cases.

But yeah going through Tools and looking at parts up to steel, 20/min ends up being VERY convenient for many chains, either by needing exactly 100% of a given purity node, or by having only whole numbers of machines, or by being maximum belt speed for the tech level in which that part is unlocked.

It makes me wonder if 20/min was something on the minds of those who balanced the recipes.

Those things are not big concerns for an experienced player but I really do think a newbie would be well served by having this pointed out to them.

Emphasis on the part where I say it all goes out the window in endgame.

[prisma kraken]

i think in general, most things either are 20 or 45 that way

[stoic gorge]

i think less is ok too

bc a lot of things you don't use too much

so this things 5 p min is enough for me

[stoic gorge]

i have 900 crude oil p min

should i focus more on plastic, rubber or fuel?

i just started working with it

[median heath]

That is entirely your decision to make, as there is no unilaterally correct answer.

[deft lichen]

ideally wait until you need some and then make a factory for it

[stoic gorge]

yea i was asking because maybe for other tiers there is one that you use more for other recipes

[deft lichen]

there really is no answer as it depends on which alts you pick

[median heath]

You are the one who will be deciding which recipes you use in other tiers, which is why it is your decision.

What we use in our chains is not necessarily the route you will (or even should) take.

[deft lichen]

if you're really not sure, use 300 oil, split it in half to make plastic and rubber

then expand as you'll need

[median heath]

I will say if you're unsure, don't use the full 900 at this time.
Don't make stuff you don't need just to make it.

[stoic gorge]

so for start just to unlock the tiers i should use only few of this oil just for the tiers?

[median heath]

That would be my recommendation, yes.

I can give you a basic 300 oil setup that evenly splits Plastic/Rubber and is a net power positive to your grid if you want it.

And then as you advance you can use more oil for more specific things.

[stoic gorge]

i would like it

[median heath]

300 Oil

5 Rubber Refineries @ 100%
5 Plastic Refineries @ 100%

Byproduct HOR routed to
4 Coke Refineries @ 93.75%
Feeds 18 Coal Gens with no waste.

Cost to run: 600ishMW
Production: 1350 MW

[stoic gorge]

thanks

can you explain me this last part?

Byproduct HOR

[median heath]

Look at the recipe for Rubber or Plastic

You will see 2 outputs.

[stoic gorge]

oh ok

so its better to use the heavy oil for petroleum coke them fuel?

[median heath]

T5-6 is your tutorial in "welcome to dealing with byproducts", so it is a lesson you really need to take the time to learn, because the moment you hit T7-8 everything has a byproduct and the game expects you to know how to figure out dealing with them.

[deft lichen]

you don't have fuel generators now

[median heath]

As we will always say "Better is subjective"

[stoic gorge]

so lets say better for power

you could get more power with coke for coal gen them fuel for fuel gen

[deft lichen]

once you get fuel generators, it works out better to make fuel afaik

[stoic gorge]

thats true

[median heath]

Fuel will generate more but you will have to deal with building Fuel Gens (which you may or may not have at this stage).
Coke is simpler to set up, and can also be repurposed to other recipes if you don't need the power from it anymore.

[stoic gorge]

ok thanks for the setup

i ll do it

[uneven grove]

One water extractor can run two coal reactors without optimisations?

[median heath]

How much does 1 extractor produce?
How much does each gen require?

Produce - Requirement = Remainder

If Remainder >= 0
Yes.

[stoic gorge]

im pretty sure you need overcloking for this

[deft lichen]

you don't, let them do the math

[uneven grove]

120 - 100 = 20 remainder so that is a yes, thank you

[deft lichen]

coal gens use 45 each, not 50

[stoic gorge]

i forgot to consider the two coal gen

[uneven grove]

Oh my bad I looked at the total amount it could store, you are correct

[deft lichen]

so to answer your question, it can supply exactly 2 and 2/3

3 extractors supply 8 generators perfectly

[uneven grove]

Cool, thanks 😄

[deft lichen]

pay attention to pipe throughput limits too

[stoic gorge]

if the pipe is only horizontal it never needs a pump?

[deft lichen]

correct

[median heath]

Correct.

[stoic gorge]

ok thanks

[uneven grove]

I'm trying to enhance my math skills with this game, it will be fun

[deft lichen]

pro tip, press N for calculator

[median heath]

Game is entirely basic arithmetic. Just done over and over.

[stoic gorge]

can i see if the ill reach the point i want before just seeing it when i turn it on?

[median heath]

I don't understand the question.

[stoic gorge]

just like when you put the water pump and you can see a blue glowing circle going to see where the liquid will stop

can i do it without putting the water pump

[median heath]

Oh, yeah, no.
Pump-only.
And something we have asked them to apply to buildings many, many times.

[stoic gorge]

all the refineries on the coke are 93.75% or just the last one?

[median heath]

All

[neon nexus]

Hi, i'm quite new to "odd ratios" in this game so im trying to test them with diagrams like this one, does it make any sense ? it should work if im right but i wonder if there is any way to do it even more optimized

[stoic gorge]

what is the advantage of packging items

[median heath]

Liquids or Gasses?

[neon nexus]

is it a rethorical question ? cause i cant pack items

[median heath]

Fluid Packaging comes in T5-6.

[neon nexus]

im slowly finishing 3 and 4 yet xD

[stoic gorge]

liquids

these ones

[median heath]

Objectively? Not much.
Like you have to have them packaged to use with Jetpack or a vehicle, but as far as production goes it usually wants the fluid input.

So that means anything you pack has to be unpacked. Which then becomes about logistics. And objectively the 2 methods are equal in terms of transport. Some people just prefer moving packaged because it puts things on belts and belts are simpler to deal with than pipes for them.

[stoic gorge]

so i cant put fuel on a truck station without packaging?

[median heath]

Logistics as far as trains is equal both ways for liquids. Gas (Nitrogen) should ALWAYS be packaged before shipping.

Fluids via Drone or Truck must always be packaged because they do not have a fluid variant.

[median heath]

Correct.

[stoic gorge]

but with like fuel gen i can use both packed and liquid

[median heath]

No.

[stoic gorge]

or just liquid

[median heath]

Fuel gens take only the liquid input.

[stoic gorge]

hm ok

thanks for the help

[median heath]

👍

[boreal summit]

But you can transport packaged fuel to the generators and unpack it with another packager before sending it into the fuel gen

Which, like Sevrahn said, is just a matter of taste which production line you prefer

Once you make enough empty canisters to support the throughput you need, you can reuse them when they're emptied on the other end - so it's not a constant loss of plastics to that production line.

Unlike fueling jetpacks or vehicles, which eat the plastic apparently

[median heath]

Constant loss of Plastic is actually the only scenario in which packaged liquids on freight trains is outright better than fluid trains.

[boreal summit]

(I can see why they did it, but it might be nice to have the option to get the empties back)

[median heath]

Recycling the cans is what makes both methods equal.

[stoic gorge]

so you can make all the empty canisters before and just start reusing they

them*

[boreal summit]

If you're using packagers at both ends, yes.

Packagers will intake full fluid canisters, outputting the liquid and the empty canisters

So just a reverse of packaging the fluid in the first place

So if you prefer to use trucks and/or belts, it's a viable option

[stoic gorge]

got it

if youre transporting the liquids you can just use pipes, any vehicle can do this?

[median heath]

Logistics as far as trains is equal both ways for liquids. Gas (Nitrogen) should ALWAYS be packaged before shipping.

Fluids via Drone or Truck must always be packaged because they do not have a fluid variant.

[boreal summit]

I don't quite get what you're asking with this. Trucks and drones cannot carry fluids unless packaged.

[stoic gorge]

yes that was my question

sorry for bad english

[boreal summit]

No worries, that's why I asked :)

just clarifying

It's not you that's bad at English, it's English that's bad and difficult to learn.

[stoic gorge]

i didnt understand well, so trains can transport liquids?

[boreal summit]

Yes

[stoic gorge]

oh ok

[boreal summit]

Train freight platforms have pipe inputs

So you can just pipe fluids directly into them

No other transportation method has this

[stoic gorge]

english classes is very different from what really is talking in english

[boreal summit]

So if you just want to transport fluids without packaging you either need trains or long pipelines

[stoic gorge]

so sometimes i get lost in wrinting and reading

[boreal summit]

That's totally understandable

[median heath]

You build either Freight Platform or you build a Fluid Platform.

Trains are the only method that has this available distinction.

[stoic gorge]

ok

[boreal summit]

That's what you get when you have a language that's like 4 different root languages mashed together nonsensically

[stoic gorge]

lol

tbh english classes wasnt very good for learning, i think my main source of learning was videos and video games

[boreal summit]

learning through experience is generally better, yeah

[stoic gorge]

but classes are very good to learning the grammar rules

[boreal summit]

If you have questions related to English feel free to ask/dm me, I'll do my best to explain. My mom is a teacher who specializes in reading and ESL (English as a Second Language).

[stoic gorge]

thank you man

very cool of your mom i didnt knew this specialization existed

[vapid gorge]

make the proper number of items on a belt and only merge them in the first place - or use a manifold.
Other than that you'll be looking at diagrams like that quite often.

there's a guide on reddit for weird load balance designs. There's probably a 3:5 example like you're showing?

[median heath]

Manifold.

[neon nexus]

i think thats what i went for in the end

[vapid gorge]

yeah you can manage that example with 2 splitters

[neon nexus]

dont mind the "30" i forgot to change them

[vapid gorge]

that also works

[neon nexus]

i figured with time it'll even itself

[vapid gorge]

load balancing is really there for the love of doing it. If you don't love doing it there's not a huuuuge point

[jovial lake]

I was about to go wait.... WAIT!!...

[stoic gorge]

if i dont use the residual products of crude oil the production stops?

[snow dove]

yeah

that’s why oil has byproducts, to teach you how to deal with byproducts

[stoic gorge]

hm ok

[prisma kraken]

when you get to aluminum processing, if things backup your factory deadlocks, so oil is training wheels for that all

[stoic gorge]

interesting

[prisma kraken]

i end up using a lot of awesome sinks when i get to aluminum 🙂

[stoic gorge]

wait

so i can just make the byproducts go to awesome sinks?

[prisma kraken]

not with fluids directly

[stoic gorge]

yes but for example

[prisma kraken]

typically with into oil, what i do is 5 refineries making rubber, 5 with rubber, and convert the 150/min hor byproduct to coke, and sink that or burn it in coal generators

[stoic gorge]

i can use the heavy oil to make coke

and them send it to sink?

[stoic gorge]

cool

so its not that big of a problem

[prisma kraken]

yeah, any solid you can sink except for some nuclear stuff between uranium waste & plut fuel rods

[stoic gorge]

if things get out of control i can just move them to sink

[prisma kraken]

yeah, just converting it to coke is the easy way of dealing with the hor byproduct

[stoic gorge]

yes, but i discovered that too late lol

im already building a coal plant

[prisma kraken]

i encourage you to consider burning it in coal generators instead of sinking it, 150hor->450 coke, which will fuel 18 coal gens

[stoic gorge]

im doing it

[prisma kraken]

i usually just end up sinking it, and stealing a little coke & rubber to make some circuit boards

[stoic gorge]

the problem is that it destroyed the symetry on my coal plant and its killing me

[prisma kraken]

sorry 😦

[stoic gorge]

lol

[prisma kraken]

if i use it for power, its a pretty temporary build

hor is liquid gold later in the game

[stoic gorge]

yea, i ll move to fuel gen as soon as i get it

[prisma kraken]

but the game is designed so that you can do quicky builds to get a bit of production of the newly unlocked stuff going which you'll later want to rebuild

[stoic gorge]

yea, but im still struggling a lot

i unlocked manufacturer and i can predict the headache

[prisma kraken]

ehh, they're a pain to build with, yeah, i'll still take building with them over blenders

[stoic gorge]

the problem is the recipes

the quantity are so random of the computer for example

[prisma kraken]

there's an alt for that 🙂

the crystal computer alt really is nice

caterium computer is also really good

but crystal computer shifts the making of them from the manufacturer to an assembler

ofc, crystal oscillators need a manufacturer, but i'd rather have a bitchy build with oscillators than with computers

[vapid gorge]

just clock it to put out what you need

[prisma kraken]

a lot of the wierd numbers start making sense when you realize they are fractions of 45

2.8125, 5.625, 11.25, 22.5 are all 45/2^n

i'll say the numbers seem pretty random, but there's honestly a pretty well though-out design to the rates & such

what i find sorta annoying is that there are numbers that have a 7 as a factor, and they're put in the game just to make the math messy

default oscillator taking 28 cable for instance

there's a few 11's and a lot of 13's floating around too, but 7 is the one that really wrecks your tidy math 😛

[thorny cedar]

with 7 i tend to do a multiplier of 9 and try to recycle the 3 to smth else

[prisma kraken]

11 is a pain too, but i think the only recipes that use it are fine concrete & silicon cb

the 13's can get ugly, but usually they can be resolved with maxing a 780 belt out

[thorny cedar]

yea bcs of 13 times 60

[prisma kraken]

yeah

whenever you see a 52 or 65, that's 13 popping up

7 is just the ugly one that they use to make things untidy in the game math

somehow i dropped down 52 refineries and didn't miss a belt 😄

i hate spamming out the pure refinery builds

[thorny cedar]

i only do pure rec

i like them somewhat to set up :3

you feel like you did smth at the end of th day

[median heath]

"Made it to the end of the day" is always a good accomplishment 👍

[prisma kraken]

ehh, pure iron is a waste except for one spot in the world under wierd circumstances, you really need to be building stupid big to ever use pure copper, pure cat i think is almost a necessity, wet concrete often gets you that little bit of extra concrete you need for hmfs, and cheap silica, can't get away w/o using it in a big build

they're all pretty simple builds except for the size except for cheap silica

cheap silica just ends up being a pain with needing injected manifolds

i forgot pure quartz, it isn't bad, but isn't great

[thorny cedar]

cheap silica?

[prisma kraken]

what are you questioning?

i consider it a 'pure' recipe

[thorny cedar]

but but 80 ass are 2100

its so perfect

and i dont sweat the manifold for this one :3

[prisma kraken]

i'm just talking about the build, its a pain, lol

[thorny cedar]

more or less the only "building block" bp i got

[prisma kraken]

i usually end up doing it in nw rocky desert b/c of the limestone

[thorny cedar]

24 ass compact into a cube

i do it where the raw quartz is at

and in the worst case ship the silica

bcs silica stacks 200

[prisma kraken]

is there enough limestone near titan forest for what you need, or do you need to get some via train?

[thorny cedar]

if you mean the 3600 quartz east?

yea there is not "that far away 5 limestone in the dune desert

[prisma kraken]

that's titan forest, yeah

[thorny cedar]

next to the oil and one pure right down in the swamp

[prisma kraken]

there's a bunch of limestone nodes in the canyon right there that are normals, i've never mathed out if it is enough

usually when i get to bulk producing HSC's, the number of limestone nodes i need is around 7 pure ones, so i just set it up in rocky desert

[thorny root]

which one of these is the best pick?

[median heath]

Best is subjective.

[thorny cedar]

if you need any you pick the one you need if you dont need any all of them are good

or bad

[thorny root]

This is very advice. Thanks.

[thorny cedar]

a different answer would be 4

xD

but yea if you dont know what you want that means none of these matter to you so why asking others if it does not matter to you?

[thorny root]

Used to be... a channel dedicated to this exact question here. I couldn't find it.

[thorny cedar]

bcs its a subjective decision for everyone and just creates arguments tbh :c

[thorny root]

It... wasn't.. text based...

It was just post a pic vote 1 2 3

[thorny cedar]

and we got some form of wiki i think and a spreadsheet of some sort for this

where someone calculated the most beneficial based on numbers of res or smth

dont take me wrong i did not want to make fun of you

its just the decision is for you to make based on what you want and as a tip if you cant choose you can reload and scan again 🙂

itll be different

[thorny root]

No. I just wanted someone with more experience to pick for me based on what they'd pick.

Nevermind.

Thanks anyway.

[thorny cedar]

still based on my "experience": rec 1 yea can be a good alternative based on what you are going for bcs in a max build it can supplement some pure copper with some iron but thats depending on what you build bcs its very niche.
rec 2 is crap or do you want to farm wood for coal?
rec 3 what are you doing with black powder?

and all of this you could figure out urself in no time maybe not the first part

[vapid gorge]

what are you building next? pick something that might affect that. The fine black powder has weapon utility I think? copper alloy gives you more copper if you add some coal. Charcoal is a bit of a dud

[main dirge]

Not used drones yet but making forward plans; what kind of throughput and battery consumption should I expect from them? Say for halfway across the map bc (first set I need is like 40/m from the northeast-most quartz patch to lake forest)

Making 600/m batteries, ends up being the most I can eke out of the world around other production

[thorny cedar]

max throuput is 9 stacks bcs drons can only carry 9 i would say max con per drone is avg of 3 bat/min across the map it depends but you need to try and solve

[main dirge]

Yea but how long does the trip take xd

Don't need an exact, just a ballpark

[thorny cedar]

6 bat +1 per min and i think the max travel time can hardly exceed 6 minutes

[main dirge]

Ik the speed is on the wiki but not sure how to measure distance

👍 150/m is more than enough

[thorny cedar]

thats how big the map is

[wind spade]

At that point you can just roll a dice and have the same effect

You can also read this #math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

There never was one. People put it into #screenshots to get the number reply, but that's not really recommended given that what you pick depends on personal preferences and plans

[neon nexus]

Hi, im not rly sure its the correct channel for this but i'm tyrying to build a small hypertube accelerator and im not rly sure how to "use it"
i dont rly feel like im the one choosing when i stop accelerating and go on the right tube

[thorny cedar]

smwn told me you press left and right at the "exit" and that determinates the way

i buried that design and made a dedicated tube

[neon nexus]

wdym ?

[thorny cedar]

just as much entrance as i need

[neon nexus]

just some entrances in a line making u accelerate going through each of them ?

[thorny cedar]

you suppost to could tab left and right at the switch

[thorny cedar]

yes way more deterministic

"deterministic"

and if its for a normal loop and not a canon

there is an exit design aswell

[neon nexus]

this kind of design ?

cause i dont feel like im getting that fast with these deisgns

[thorny cedar]

these are 18 prepell me 3.5 km in a canon

but they are to cloes to exit for a tube

its just oneway

[neon nexus]

oh its possible to get them even closer ??

[thorny cedar]

yea

[neon nexus]

im not building a tube network yet anyway xD

its just that my power plant and steel main prod is far away walking

so a 2 way tube will be more than enough with the proper speed

[thorny cedar]

its try and error

18 reach ~3.5km in this setup

and i placed a ujelly on the other side

80% of the time i hit it

[neon nexus]

xDDDD

[thorny cedar]

died once so far to the sky deathblock

and 20% of the time i fly a bit to low or to far but that has smth to do with the game

but 80% i can just let go and hit it precisly

just place them see how far you reach and if you are nearby you want to go plae a u jelly were you land

[neon nexus]

i dont think i'll do a canon yet even tho it must be fun to use and design

[thorny cedar]

oh and i used an entrance in a distance and about 20 meter of hyper tube to even out the approach speed i enter the canon as much as possible

[neon nexus]

is it necessary to place an entrance on both side of each support ?

[thorny cedar]

no

[neon nexus]

but if i dont it doesnt turn green and i cant get in

[thorny cedar]

you need a bit of hypertube

[thorny cedar]

so place a segment in between and add some tube

[stoic gorge]

i was seeing it and i liked it a lot, i have tons of quick wire that and dont know what to do with, this alt would be very good

[thorny cedar]

but only single segments!

dont connect it fromt he first to the last segment straight

from entrance to segment

[thorny cedar]

yea you cant rly see the tube

but i hope there is tube in between

and save and try xD

[neon nexus]

yes there is

[thorny cedar]

but its prob just a little

[neon nexus]

i tried already xD

not fast enough, is there anyway to "copy/paste" one segment to build it faster ?

[thorny cedar]

bp designer? idk

its a one time build

[boreal summit]

blueprints are the only way to do that kind of thing

[neon nexus]

i only heard of it so far but last time i played im pretty sure it wasnt there

is it kinda like in factorio ?

[thorny cedar]

no

and you are just lazy

[neon nexus]

yes ?

[thorny cedar]

its more time to make a bp for it

idk one time placement

angle direction ammount

[boreal summit]

depends how many launchers you wanna place around your world

[neon nexus]

i like to take shortcuts when i can, and it would teach me how to use bp

[thorny cedar]

you saw my screenshot its the angle bcs it has to be

sure go ahead you can make a bp

[boreal summit]

To go from one side of Grasslands to the other, I need about 12-13 mini tubes

[thorny cedar]

but even in factorio it would take me more time to set up a bp for each angle then to just build the thing