math-and-meta

[wind spade]

distance isn't the only variable that should be considered when choosing transportation method

[median heath]

Distance also becomes somewhat irrelevant after the first couple deliveries.

[deft lichen]

The simplest decision factor is "which one is easier to build". Also consider if you'll have more use for the track than one train line

[fierce ruin]

depends how far i have to walk to get more alum sheets 😉

[deft lichen]

If you have a railway from A to B, connecting A to C means you have to only build the track between B and C

With belts, you'd have to run them all the way

[fierce ruin]

i also consider how many belts, usully if i have to build multiple belts, i will upgrade the line into a train, but again its whats easiest and fastest for me.

[deft lichen]

Yeah that falls into "being easier to build"

[fierce ruin]

setting up a train line could take an hour at the most, where you can throw down a belt in a few mins

i would probably agree you, 90% of my decisions comes down to your statement

[median heath]

Can also just drive a truck in 5 minutes and be done with it.

[deft lichen]

Getting the fuel is the bigger problem

Disregarding my poor driving skills

[median heath]

Fuel isn't a problem 😦

[deft lichen]

"build 1 km of belt" or "drive a truck + build 1 km of belt for fuel"

[median heath]

No.

If you're doing fuel in shitty ways then sure, fuel is a self-inflicted problem.

[fierce ruin]

how do you recommend doing fuel?

[snow dove]

Use drones to deliver fuel, then use the trucks with that fuel to move items ||/s||

[deft lichen]

How do you get fuel when moving stuff between outposts that don't have coal/oil nodes near then?

[fierce ruin]

That sounds terribly inefficent use of drones /s

[snow dove]

nah definitely super efficient

[median heath]

You can see how the decision here changes?

But also most T4+ level locations are going to have one of those nodes close by.

[deft lichen]

I've had one such case where it worked out and I did use a explorer line to deliver steel

But that's a pretty narrow use case

I admit I'm biased towards building trains though

[fierce ruin]

not a fan of vehicle accidents.

[median heath]

Always gotta start with admitting bias before you start swaying the new people to one side or the other 😉

[deft lichen]

No I like trains

[true junco]

You assume that somebody attempting to sway others doesnt have an agenda?

[true junco]

Nah. You have a truck deliver the fuel... which unfortunately means truck depots will often need an extra station just to deliver the fuel.

[median heath]

You guys do trucks in such a weird fashion it's no wonder new people get put off them by listening to how most of you try to set them up 😭

But I am going to nap so please don't ping me for followup on that right now.

[true junco]

I do not tell anyone how to set up trucks. Lol

If somebody who loves trucks could give a nice and thurough guide for them that would be great. I wonder if we know anyone who loves trucks here... 😆

[deft lichen]

Hm, right. I'll look into how/whether I could implement trucks in my next project

[wary tulip]

Trucks are very useful. A good transport method for shorter runs.

[barren elm]

It's not meta, but I love trucks just because they make the world feel alive

[snow dove]

they are meta tho

they use less fuel and have a higher max throughput than trains

[barren elm]

You know what uses no fuel?

[snow dove]

What?

[barren elm]

Belts

[snow dove]

ok well that’ll kill your fps

[barren elm]

Have you tested it?

[snow dove]

more belts less fps

and not personally no, it’s just a known thing in the community

it’s just how belts work

plus it’s almost always easier to add a new train or truck than run 1-2 new belts at distance

[barren elm]

I feel like factoring in game performance opens up the topic of "well are trains more performant than trucks"

[snow dove]

never heard that to be true

even if it is true, it can’t be to the same degree as belts vs trucks or belts vs trains

[tropic cape]

I've been using Explorers for short runs across the desert. They're much smaller than trucks but still have good cargo capacity, so you can just set one up easily and then have a few using the same path

I find trucks much harder to drive and thus harder to create paths for

Wish we could just place beacons to create a path manually, and move them as desired. That would make them useful again too.

[wind spade]

trains do pathfinding and segment locking, definitely need more resources than trucks

[deft lichen]

Aren't trains far away faked like trucks?

They don't have to ever repath unless the railway changes too

[wind spade]

even if they are faked, they still reserve segments

[deft lichen]

Hm, still, it could be faked without any physics involved

Likely not easy to implement though

[wind spade]

trucks just follow spline
trains follow spline and reserve segments

just this comparison makes trains more demanding

ignoring whether or not they are faked or anything

[barren elm]

Trucks also do pathfinding, and the train pathfinding is obscenely simple

Also trucks are simulated physics objects, while trains aren't (unless they crash)

And 1 train can do the job of, well, infinite trucks if you planned accordingly, tho realistically it's doing the job of at least 2-4

[wind spade]

trains are as well

[thorny cedar]

drones are bugged in display i can say

but itll be fixed but be creful

and it normaly fix itself on reload thats what i experienced

[median heath]

[elder blade]

Does anyone have access to, or knows how i could create a height map of the satisfactory world? Please and thank you!

[snow dove]

the in-game map is topographic

[deft lichen]

It depends how precise you need it to be but yeah, the in-game map already is color coded

The image can be dumped from the game's PAK and is 16K

[queen slate]

I think we can only get data on resource-hungryness of transport by profiling the game.

[snow dove]

what

[elder blade]

the thing is, it isnot monochromatic, and also isn't acurate enought to be used in the program i need it for

neither is the SCIM map

[rigid turtle]

you can extract the 3D model for the world and mess with that if you're willing to go the extra steps

you'd have a better time asking the modding discord if you were to try that

[elder blade]

Ty

[mental rover]

does anybody have an idea how i should split a 400 line into 300/100

i might just be being dumb here

nevermind

[barren elm]

Every ratio in the game can be split perfectly using a manifold

[mental rover]

yeah i just dont have the patience to figure it out

[barren elm]

There's no patience needed

It's quite possibly the most thoughtless way of building in satisfactory

[vapid gorge]

yeah no thinking involved. If 1 section uses 100 and the other uses 300, just have its split on 2 belts and it'll self balance

[mental rover]

except it wont because one line is going to an awesome sink which i do realize i shouldve specified

[vapid gorge]

Ah, then a smart splitter and 2 belts

send over flow to the sink

[mental rover]

i've never actually used a smart splitter i dont think i didnt think of that

thanks

[vapid gorge]

no prob 🙂 jsut have the splitter somewhere before the machines consuming the products and it'll work great

you'll want the main path set to Any and the sink path to Overflow

[mental rover]

okay i was about to ask

and it'll prioritize the "any" ?

[vapid gorge]

I figured you might ask 😉

Smart splitters are also fun for sushi belts. Like if you are feeding a set of machines a bunch of items and you have belts fast enough to move more than 1 item type? you can feed the machines with fewer belts

A number of Manufacturer recipes can done with with 1 mk5 belt feeding all 4 items

[vapid gorge]

oh and another method of doing what you were talkign about - selective merging. Merge the number of items you want onto a belt from the start that way there's no splitting needed. Sometimes it's convenient sometimes it's not, like if you're sending the items far away. For that you just clock the machines to spit out the number you want

[mental rover]

yeah I have done that before

[vapid gorge]

great! it's a powerful method a lot of people don't think of

[mental rover]

for the way i had my machines organized it was easier to do it this way, oil :\

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, all sorts of dif situations. Nothing is perfect for all of them

[mental rover]

yeah fs

ty for the help

[vapid gorge]

selective merging is mainly good if it doesn't have to travel far

and nw! gl

[thorny cedar]

look at my 60 to 41.1/18.9 balancer its not that i need him i just can do it so i did! first floor splits in 15 scnd splits in 3 and the 3rd into 0.9 the overflow is 41.1 its possible to be more compact idk was just bored so not that optimized... question does the destribution look right 🤡 ?

[earnest patio]

Hey everyone, just found out something today that might be helpful to someone else

I was making a coal generator center around a lake and had some logistics issues with the inputs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYE0SKB9Xk4&t=268s

I was using this video as a reference and found 2 things

If your water flow even slightly has to elevate, the water levels in adjacent pipes will fluctuate too much and eventually half the generators will run out of water

[elfin nebula]

i see insane clickbait here

[earnest patio]

In my case i was running 16 gens, so I needed 240 coal/min input

at first i was overclocking one MKII to 240 and splitting it, but bc the miner itself can only hold max 100 coal at a time, it was causing slight bumps in the coal flow so the gens eventually crashed too

it works by using two separate MKIIs instead and just merging them

[thorny cedar]

dont click it its just a rnd coal gen video but i know what he means

[earnest patio]

its honestly nothign insane in the design itself

[elfin nebula]

i clicked and some stuff said is just straight wrong

[earnest patio]

just something i had to figure out about overclocking =/= having 2 individual sources

[vapid gorge]

it doesn't matter that hte miner can 'only hold 100', if your belt can move it it won't back up

[thorny cedar]

at least the thing with the pipes its basically inputs on diff elevation work like an overflow

[earnest patio]

see thats the thing though, I had all the right belts

the coal was still getting backed up

I figured the miner only holding 100 was the issue

[vapid gorge]

then the numbers weren't right or there was a build error

[earnest patio]

after I switched to using 2 miners though it was perfectly fine

without changing anything else with the build

so im not sure i guess

[thorny cedar]

its just

the time it took you to hook up the scnd miner

the build was flooded with water

after that all the gens where filled with water and didnt choke

[earnest patio]

but the issue this time wasnt the water flow

[thorny cedar]

its not the coal it you fixed

[earnest patio]

water was fine, it was the coal that wasnt feeding in fast enough

[thorny cedar]

its the gens you did by accident

[vapid gorge]

something else got changed as you were doing the differences. Maybe water wasn't getting to the gens at first fully so it wasn't burnning the coal? if there wasn't a math or build error you didn't let it run long enough to stabaliise

[earnest patio]

I could see some gens at the end didnt have coal at all

so it was a distirbution thing, they were all filled with water so i didnt think that was an issue

[vapid gorge]

manifolds take time to spin up

[thorny cedar]

so you say your one gen filled with coal

[earnest patio]

yeah so I let it fill with water + coal all the way

[thorny cedar]

and he did not restart befor he was down the 100 stack coal?

[vapid gorge]

that's what I was sayign about 'waiting until it stabalised'

[earnest patio]

then after connecting it to main line, it eventually crashed

[thorny cedar]

and you put in 2 gens

[elfin nebula]

im very worried about how he explains splitting one water extractor in two pipes in the video, like as it works like a belt

thats straight wrong and very misleading

[earnest patio]

It def doesnt work like a belt, I figured that much out

just by looking at the numbers. but it does work now at least

[thorny cedar]

try to connect the one overclocked miner now

instead of the two and see if it still runs smoothly

[earnest patio]

oh good idea

[elfin nebula]

what i mean. fluid in connected pipes build one uniform entity

there is no i split it here and there

connected = its one thing and tries to always fills everything equally based on gravity

[earnest patio]

yeye

the water was tricky to figure out at first

[vapid gorge]

@earnest patio this also seems like an example of confusing Correlation and Causation. From what you described the system should have been working and what you see as the 'solution' shouldn't have changed anything. Chances are either something else got tweaked as you were rebuilding or you just needed to wait and let Time make it stable

[elfin nebula]

video probably forgot to say, that you prerun water extractors to fill everything before starting next stage

[earnest patio]

100% yeah. maybe the way i worded my initial comment was off

i def didnt like establish anything factual

just something I observed

[thorny cedar]

did u try

[earnest patio]

it actually is working fine now with just the 1 overclocked miner

[thorny cedar]

the miner

[earnest patio]

yeah you were right, but now i have no idea what was wrong before lol

[thorny cedar]

yea yea

i think the water just saturated while you changed miners idk

[earnest patio]

maybe yeah

[elfin nebula]

yeah, even though its scuffed ,prerunning water would fix it

[thorny cedar]

or maybe you had the wrong belt in on one piece and the belt was just slower

and you deleted it by changing miners

[earnest patio]

it couldve been any of these things haha

[thorny cedar]

idk

[vapid gorge]

Probably time 🙂 but couldn't tell you w/o having seen it

[earnest patio]

but thanks for the discussion, good things to keep in mind later on

yeah i guess I needed more time for pipes to fill than I thought

[elfin nebula]

yeah, next time ask before. i need to propagate the 2:5 layout

[vapid gorge]

a good habit with pipe systems is to flood a production line entirely by running one of the machines at like 50% of expected capacity and wait till everything is flooded. Helps stop back flow too

[elfin nebula]

first stage can just start before and run to yellow

when powering the other machines it takes some in inventory and everything stable instantly

[earnest patio]

ohhh okay got it, thanks for the tip

[thorny cedar]

i rebuild my batteries because i was drunk when i build it and it choked ... the new one is running now in a self filling semi closed loop at 100% for the last 12 hours im pretty proud i must say

just connected the inputs filled iteself and stays there

without waste

[main shuttle]

so what's with the 2 ungettable slugs?

[thorny cedar]

ask hannah she did this to you

[fair glen]

I've never done fuel generators before so is this a good recipe for 30000MW of power?

[true junco]

It looks right.

I built the same sort of set up for 20,000MW off of a single 250% Extractor on a pure node.

My next set up will be using the blenders tho.

And to state the obvious. Make sure your polyresin/plastic/rubber branch has overflow protection so your Crude to HOR stage doesnt shut down.

[fair glen]

I will, thank you!

[true junco]

Personally. My overflow protection for fuel and coke refinery operations is to send my polymer resin into a polyesther fabric line, and that overflows into the sink. Fabric is just worth a lot more in the sink. Same goes for all plastic and rubber plants for me. I catch the overflow with the PR to Fabric to sink.

[wind spade]

@flint shard see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[flint shard]

Alright

[main dirge]

@mighty shell may or may not be working on that 60 pasta

Doubt I'll get there but it's fun working on the infrastructure - idk if the game will die before it gets there (or if recipe rebalance will happen since it'll take years) but it'll take well over 1k hours

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the efficient way to make fuel is to go hor->dilluted; its the best you can do without breaking into using turbofuel

ps: the same setup is the efficient way of making plastic & rubber, but you feed the fuel and rubber made from the resin into more refineries, it ends up essentially turning fuel into plastic or rubber

[true junco]

Yep. Max fuel, max rubber, max plastic, all require HOR➡️Diluted fuel.

Also, i think Max Turbo Fuel also benefits from HOR➡️Diluted fuel.

So basically any time you want the most out of oil, it will involve HOR and Diluted fuel.

[elfin nebula]

sure

[true junco]

Unless you want to maximize Fabric... for whatever reason, i cannot imagine... lol

Speaking of math and meta.... i want a 3d version of excell now... hahah

[tropic crest]

if i have a pipe stretch along an x axis without changing its y value do I need to put pumpjacks on it or will pressure stay good

[median heath]

Pumps are solely for vertical changes.

[elder herald]

you can actually run 3d calcs in excel if you really do want that..

[true junco]

I was thinking more about the arrangement of cells. Kind of got carried away with it the more i thought about it. Just ended up with the idea becoming an Excell Tensor, isntead of an excell sheet... Lmfao.

[main dirge]

It's worth a relatively huge amount to sink for the amount of effort

Have a fabric production line but that's moreso bc I couldn't be assed to set up enough fuel gens for max fuel and there wasn't a water source nearby

[true junco]

All my fuel processing has the byproduct overflow protection ultimately running the polymer resin ➡️ Polyester fabric ➡️ sink for that exact reason.

[prisma kraken]

is there any benefit to making fabric with it instead of plastic/rubber?

i personally always convert it to rubber for use in other lines (can never have enough)

[true junco]

Its the overflow protection.

Priority split is to send the Polymer Resin to making plastics and/or rubber.

Overflow is to send the polymer to make fabric which goes to sink.

[prisma kraken]

interesting, i do fabric as first priority with resin where i make weapons, it'll steal some resin until a bin fills up & then stop

[true junco]

For every PR you get 1 fabric, or 1/3 plastic, or 1/2 rubber.

Sink values per item are

Resin = 12
Rubber = 60
Plastic = 75
Fabric = 140

So with the production rates you either turn 12pts into 30pts, 25pts, or 140pts.

Its just the most valuable way to process overflow resin.

I do this as the OFP for all HOR➡️Diluted Fuel. Im mostly interested in making plastic and rubber, but i set the OFP first just to get the power going. Then i work on the productive use of the resin. And i would rather the entire plastic and rubber manufacturing line shut down once they fill their output storage etc, so the fabric to sink line turns on.

[prisma kraken]

gotcha, for me, i don't really start making resin until phase4 due to the power demand, so most of the fabric i need actually comes from mycelia, and by the point i'm desposing of excess plastic/rubber, its in a recycled loop

[river pagoda]

Idk. Convert my Steel Pipe and Steel beam factory into a versatile framework or nah. Decisions decisions

[true junco]

Make VF on the side out of the output from the pipe and beam factory. Then shut down the VF factory when you have what you need. Demand for Space Elevator parts are temporary... but pipes and beams are eternally useful elsewhere.

[river pagoda]

Indeed. I could have a conveyor connected to a splitter that I only attach when I need the VFs Im sure that could work?

[thorn moss]

Hey guys. I'm kind of new to the game and up until now I've always just done manifolds, but I want to start load balancing to be efficient and I've come across a problem that might be very obvious but I'm having some trouble with it. I'm sorry if it's a dumb question.

So I have 160 wire/min going into 3 constructors to make cable (needs 60/min) and I'm struggling with how to do the beltwork to get 60 into two of them and 40 into one, so that I can run one on 66.667%. My best guess is merger at the start, split twice and let the forth output go back to the merger?

[thorny cedar]

donno why u just manifold the 3 things but here put 160 in on one side left and middle is 60 right is 40

[thorn moss]

@thorny cedar I just really wanted to know how it was done 🙂 So thank you very much!

[hybrid star]

Not sure if this is the right channel, when you put your save into satisfactory calculator and go to statistics you get how many steel pipes you are producing and it says (green number) 1140 and then (red number) 1041 is that what the factory is doing right at the point of the save or is the amount the factory produces and consumes when everything is turned on?

[thorny cedar]

when everything is running at the point of the save

[thorny cedar]

and if u build stuff thats not powered yet its darker green or red and you get a scnd number on both sides

[hybrid star]

so if it says 1140/1400 green that's it making 1140 of a possible 1400. There is no darker red number so I guess I have 260 pipes spare. Feel like I make a lot of steel foundries right now

[thorny cedar]

thats not what i just said but ok

[hybrid star]

What did I get wrong?

[true junco]

Or a smart splitter and just chsnge the settings on the output when not needed.

Or a power switch for the VF factory and turn it off when not needed.

[river pagoda]

Yeah I don’t have smart splitters yet so I’ll brute force it for now

Seems for this area I’ll only be able to have 5 produced per minute while my smart plating is at 10 per

[thorny cedar]

na its close enough for now

[summer flare]

It's not always a good idea to have a merger first. If the input feed rate is the maximum of the belt type available, then any other merged input will result in an output value higher than that. Best to use a splitter. In this case, split the 160 to 2 x 80, split one of these to 2 x 40. Merge one of the 40 with the remaining 80 to give 120 which is split to 2 x 60.

[thorny cedar]

esp in this case its impossible if you use wrong belt you only feed 120... other then that yea it depends on your input ratio how to split it

thats why i decided for merger first and a more compact design

and yea he said he is just feeding 160 and not a 780 belt that would create a different problem

[thorn moss]

Fair enough, thanks for the help guys! Really appreciate it

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'efficient', manifolds can fully feed a section of machines

[wind spade]

Manifolds have same efficiency as balancers

[vapid gorge]

and if you doin't like the time it takes for them to spin up to full speed just pre fill them

[thorn moss]

What I meant was resource efficient, so trying my best to never ''clog'' up the machines

[wind spade]

(Also if you still insist on balancers, one solution to your problem would be to clock all constructors equally)

[vapid gorge]

manifolds are resource efficient? if they clog up you built or mathed it wrong

[vapid gorge]

the point is if you send X parts pm down a balancer or manifold to a system that uses X parts pm both will be 100% efficient

[thorn moss]

Then I must be misunderstanding something lol, I'm new to the game and English isn't my first language so I don't catch everything right away

I have to look it up again

[wind spade]

Can be even simplified to "if you send X items/min to a balancer or manifold, both will have same efficiency"

[vapid gorge]

that's ok, Manifolds just take time for all the machines to work at 100% unless you put some stacks of parts in the machines at teh start up

So for smaller manifolds it might take 2 minutes for everything to run at 100%>

Bigger or more complex manifolds, or ones that use items with big stack sizes (screws, wire) take longer. I've seen some take 30minutes. But you can put stacks of materials in to remove that time

Or, personally, I just walk away and build more things

[wind spade]

Manifolds will "clog" most machines, but those will still work at 100% efficiency and the manifold as a whole will not clog

[thorn moss]

Aah, I understood it like it would end up filling up the machines and 'clog' the whole line

[vapid gorge]

nope! 😄 when the first machines fill up the rest of the parts 'overflow' further along filling the rest of the machines

[coarse steppe]

If it's a dead end line tho

[vapid gorge]

We're all new to the game though

[vapid gorge]

if you're feeding the right number of parts then the last split should never clog

[wind spade]

No, the last one or two machines in a manifold never fill (but still work at 100% efficiency, after rest of the machines fill)

[thorn moss]

Yeah ofc. it makes sense that if you build enough machines for the resources taken, they would never fill completely

[vapid gorge]

@thorn moss and load balancing is also fine - I just wanted to make sure you knew manifolds were also 100% efficient. Load balancing can be a lot of work especially later on and I didn't want you to think you HAD to do that to be efficient.

if you like load balancing or like the look of slower belts that are always moving on every part? do it

[thorn moss]

That's exactly what I have been doing for 50 hours

[vapid gorge]

If you like it , do it 😄 but you have options

[coarse steppe]

I think I've only ever load balanced small setups

[wind spade]

Small spoiler alert - no matter what is your belting, as long as the belts are fast enough for the amounts they need, every system will be 100% efficient (may just take some time to reach that)

[vapid gorge]

1 : 1 load balance. Perfection

[thorn moss]

I like trying to figure out the math but sometimes man it's just a chore, so thank you very much, I'll have to look more into it

[vapid gorge]

At least with manifolds the only math you need to know is makign the right amounts to feed a production line and if your belt can move it 😄

[coarse steppe]

Easy to scale up

[thorn moss]

Yeah, that will simplify everything a lot lol.

I'm only working on phase 2 of the space elevator and sometimes the math was already quite heavy with decimals

[prisma kraken]

there are some very, very rare exceptions

[coarse steppe]

Just wait till you get past oil

[wind spade]

Such as?

[coarse steppe]

Gonna pull your hair out

[thorn moss]

The game devs. did do an amazing job though, because yes the math and figuring everything out can be frustrating but it's extremely rewarding and if you get fed up there are a million other things to take your mind of it for a while

[prisma kraken]

i once built a bp for oscillators that made use of stitch+iron wire and used a smart splitter in the bp to direct the wire to making cable first, it through the timing of everything off just enough to cause the machines to never reach 100%

i.e. wire was always going to the wrong machine

i changed the belting of the thing to use a dumb manifold instead, and it ran fine

that's pathological though

iron wire+stitched plate is one of those combos that always causes fp rounding weirdness

[wind spade]

well I obviously mean "one item type"

once you start dealing with mixed/sushi belts, it's a different story

[prisma kraken]

oh, it was just a belt of wire

[wind spade]

then it must have been an error in your math

[median heath]

If this is a continuance from you saying the thing about belts earlier, sushi makes no difference.
Still reaches 100%.

[prisma kraken]

just the way the thing was belted just hit every machine on the wrong side of a cycle

[wind spade]

yeah but need some other conditions (like items in correct ratio and such)

[wind spade]

or you haven't waited long enough

[vapid gorge]

that sort of combo just takes ages to get going properly.

[prisma kraken]

i let it run for 8 hrs, lol

[vapid gorge]

yeah maybe days. I prefill wire/cable combos

[wind spade]

some manifolds can take longer than that 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Once I prefilled my wire cable combo it was fine

[median heath]

Aye.
But your original point was sound.
So if moon is saying that the premise is incorrect, it merely reinforces why I blocked them to begin with regarding false information 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

it was well past the point where it would fill

ahh, the troll comes out

[vapid gorge]

look I had a very similar set up for beacons. Pre filled them and they kept working at 100%

[prisma kraken]

manifolds don't always converge if you start a factory in an empty state

[wind spade]

mathematically it just doesn't make sense
if the whole system is filled (every machine has items), it works at 100%
if the system doesn't work at 100%, it's filling up (receives more resources than consumes)

[prisma kraken]

its not a big deal usually, you just stuff a stack of stuff in some machines and it works, but they don't always converge to 100%

[wind spade]

it's not possible for manifolds to get stuck in filling phase

[prisma kraken]

that's the thing, if you're at belt capacity, there's no way to transmit more down the line to burst the excess to them

i've seen it a number of times with coal gens using mk2 belts w/o a pre-fill

[wind spade]

if the belt is exactly as the machines further down the line need, then it'll work at 100%
if the belt is higher, then it ofc will work
if the belt is lower, it won't work (but that's against the original premise of "having fast enough belts")

[prisma kraken]

case #1 is where you're incorrect

[wind spade]

again, reffering to this

it is impossible for it to not reach "filled" state

last two machines/gens never fill, but will work at 100% efficiency after some time

[prisma kraken]

i've seen coal manifolds where they never stop blinking, pretty sure i could build one to demo it

[wind spade]

manifolds always reach "stabilised" state, just may take longer to do so

[prisma kraken]

what you say makes sense, and i'm not arguing with what you're asserting the math to be, i'm just saying i've witnessed the contrary

might have to do with my framerate or some such outside variable like that, i just know i've seen in practice things sometimes not converge on 100%

[wind spade]

obviously in ideal conditions (no mods, no dedi server, being host, pc not lagging)

[prisma kraken]

it could also be that there's some situations where the belt length causes an undue pause in splitting that makes for a weird timing

[wind spade]

belt length can be basically ignored and counted as "extra buffer" in machine

[prisma kraken]

i believe you're correct, but when you're changing the cycle times to be inrepresentable numbers, all bets are off

[wind spade]

if you're using numbers that can't be represented in 4 decimal clock speeds, then ofc your manifold will be off 🙂

but all the "manifold works at 100%" means "works at 100% of what it can do", if it's off because of wrong clock speed, then it still doesn't matter if it's a balancer or a manifold, both will be off

[prisma kraken]

agreed

i think that really only hits you with things that revolve around the primes 11 and 13 though

[wind spade]

well 45/81 rule is there for a reason I guess 😄

[prisma kraken]

very few recipes use those large primes

silicon circuit board iirc is the only one that's 11

there's a few involving screws and pure iron as well

[thorny cedar]

there is a third option the middle way

[wise sky]

Hello so im working on a iron factory and made this calculations for how many smelters are needed but I wanted to make sure that I didn't get something wrong so i came here to ask

Total: 48 rod constructors

22 for screw
26 for rod

2,220 screw = 22 constructor
660 plates = 33 constructor

24 smelters for rod
33 smelters for plates

57 smelters used

TLDR:

2,220 screws + 660 plates = 57 smelters

[prisma kraken]

man, that's a lot of constructors that alts can trim

but i alsy don't think your math is quite right

default screw recipe makes 40 screw/min; 2220/40 = 55.5 screw constructors

that in turn would require 5550 rods/min, which would be 5550/15 = 370 rod constructors, and 5550/30 = 185 iron smelters. the math for the plates looks correct

errr, i had an extra 0 creep in there somewhere

555 rods/min; 37; 18.5

one smelter can feed 2 rod constructors, which will feed 3 screw constructors

[wind spade]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=0nYJtY57rUxxtyqbLqxM

[prisma kraken]

pretty strange numbers 😛

[wind spade]

idk why they want them, but 🤷‍♂️

[wise sky]

Thanks!

[main dirge]

Just had a train crash at these crossroads - am I misunderstanding something with signals?

[deft lichen]

Collisions shouldn't ever occur with signals, but that's major signal spam

[main dirge]

I like the sound they make 😦

[deft lichen]

What, collisions?

[snow dove]

don’t have a block shorter than a train

[main dirge]

Hmm - I'm wondering if that 8-carriage train going East was considered "in the next block" at the station, so the North path block opened up

[main dirge]

Would replacing the station entrance signals with path signals work?

Taking up all the space I have

[snow dove]

if it was me, i’d just elevate that bit of track to go over the other

[main dirge]

Valid

Probs the easiest solution, no roof yet

Semi-relatedly, is there any advantage to splitting up blocks within a junction with path signals (as well as at entrances/exits)? or is it just pointless bar funny ding noise

[deft lichen]

"Path block cannot contain signals"

[deft lichen]

There is, but not at this scale

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1023351843717382155/1129550583897006201/image.png

Rather than "chaining" path signals, you're really splitting a larger path block

In the case on the right, trains will clear the red block sooner due to entering the pink/blue block

So if one train goes left and the other goes right, the junction will have increased throughput

Putting a billion path signals after each other doesn't really help anything

[main dirge]

Cool, Factorio intuition still working for me then

[deft lichen]

The signals are similar but NOT the same!!

Path signals do subsectioning on their own

[main dirge]

Yea ik they're slightly different

[deft lichen]

So e.g. if you have a double track T or X junction, you only place path signals on entrances, not in the middle of the junction

[main dirge]

General rule of "path signals are for when you don't want a train to wait in the next block" still works unless you want head hurty though

[deft lichen]

That's correct, I'm talking more about signal spam

[main dirge]

Signals in the middle of the junction don't pose an issue though right (as long as no looping)?

It's just they don't really serve much purpose bc it's calcs the entire path to the next block signal

Whereas in Factorio it designates an available path

[deft lichen]

In certain cases they might marginally improve throughput but are painful to build

So path signal chaining is used where there is a meaningful difference

[snow dove]

looped track with tangential lines forever

[main dirge]

I also like that trains aren't an instakill because I just jumped on one 😅

[dense epoch]

Guys I'm gonna make a starter oil processing setup with an input of 360 m3/m

what do you reccomend I make?

[snow dove]

produce the stuff you need

[vapid gorge]

probalby oil and plastic as a 'starter'

[wind spade]

wait until you know what you need and make that

also, what's "m3/l"?

[vapid gorge]

cubic meters per liter

[wind spade]

... that's very weird unit lol...

[vapid gorge]

highly compressed

[wind spade]

if it's anything else than 0.001, then something weird is happening

[dense epoch]

what did I even type 💀

I wanted to type minute

I was just asking if you guys probably needed more plastic than rubber, or 50/50

I dont know what requires what after unlocking plastic and rubber

thats why I ask

[thorny cedar]

if you are starting you need some plastik for the base computer rec and later on some more rubber

and a bit plastik to make some cans for fuel

[dense epoch]

are there oil extractors Mk.2?

[thorny cedar]

no

but there are rly eff alt rec

[wind spade]

that depends on tons of things

just make what you need

[thorny cedar]

for fuel plastik and rubber production

[dense epoch]

hmmm

I'll make now arround 1 mk2 belt of each and worry later about expanding

[wind spade]

make what you need 🙂

[dense epoch]

and change some rubber for fuel

[vapid gorge]

if you don't have a planned goal yo ucan't really plan how much of each right?

[dense epoch]

true

sorry

[thorny cedar]

all good

[thorny cedar]

stupid question what is this rule?

[wind spade]

@median heath knows

[thorny cedar]

sevrahn can u explain to an unkown

he either sleeps or has sushi going on idk 🤷‍♂️

[fierce ruin]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Clock_speed

The 45/81 rule is a guideline for reducing the occurrence of infinitely repeating decimals in the clock speed of machines in Satisfactory. It states that if a recipe’s production rate is a multiple or fraction of 45/min or 81/min, its clock speed likely won’t have repeating decimals. 81 applies to most Oil recipes, 45 to most other recipes

[thorny cedar]

but you could belt balance 4/7 or stuff like that

there are prob some cases but yea most of the time you can use math

i mean in ratio not even in belt

even with 50 belts

[wind spade]

it's not about belt balancing, it's about clock speed

and not having infinite decimals on clock speeds

[fierce ruin]

correct math is correct math, cant argue with it, it just is what it is, and we design around it

[thorny cedar]

so balancing the electricity curve?

[wind spade]

not having infinte decimals

[thorny cedar]

yea thats right but a splitter still splits 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3

[fierce ruin]

electricity is effected yb it, but it has to do more with keeping your machines running at 100%

[thorny cedar]

you can create and make your factory do just a tiny bit more

[wind spade]

that's irrelevant for that

[fierce ruin]

doesn't matter about load balancing as you can use smart splitters and manifolds to ensure a constant supply of resources

[thorny cedar]

i know the cap is 1%

[wind spade]

point is to have 100% efficiency on machines and for that you can't have infinite decimals

[thorny cedar]

and i honestly dont even know about the rounds for other "caps"

but 66.6 is adjusted to 66.667 or smth

[fierce ruin]

i do alot of underclocking in the mid to later game, so this is a huge rule in making sure your machines cloock speeds are balanced

[thorny cedar]

by default

bc css knows

[snow dove]

it’s actually just truncated to 66.6666 iirc

[thorny cedar]

yea

[fierce ruin]

if you enter the values in thew correct fields you can get it to display 6.6666

[wind spade]

exactly

so if you need 66.66666 repeating, but have machine on 66.6666% or 66.6667%, it won't have 100% efficiency

[thorny cedar]

no but ill have a smart splitter on the input and the energie curve would be "almost" flat

[fierce ruin]

basically what it means is that no ,matter how many machines you add or remove to the manifold your always goingto have one machine in the lot whch is running ay 99% or higher which means that every so often it will blink on and off

[thorny cedar]

or some low balance chenanigan

[wind spade]

it's NOT about energy curve

It's about 100% efficiency on machines

[thorny cedar]

yea and if the last machine produces .01 more itl stutter when it reaches the maximum and will keep on stuttering for 0.01 on the long run

[fierce ruin]

honestly i wouldn't worry about it unless your experienced with making complex sushi manifolds etc.

[thorny cedar]

if not belt balanced i dont see a problem :c

[wind spade]

which is exactly what the 45/81 rule wants to avoid

[thorny cedar]

and isnt it just to maximise the energy curve

[fierce ruin]

the way i fix that is change the clock speed of all my machines in the manifold, and that will balance it out over time, and will keep your machines closer to 100% then 99% and it will round up

[thorny cedar]

bcs the machine does not need more items

[fierce ruin]

no its to maximize the efficiency of the items you produce

[wind spade]

no

it's about NEVER having yellow lights on any machine

[thorny cedar]

thats the same for me lets dance around the fire 🙂

[fierce ruin]

grug no like yellow, smart grug like green, green light good light. smart grug like green

[wind spade]

it's not

[fierce ruin]

trust, greeny knows what they are talking about.

[thorny cedar]

i know aswell his point is never have a single yellow light on a machine my point is to maximise energy consumtions

sorry

[fierce ruin]

if you solve the efficency of your machines, your electricity will just be balanced. balanced electricity is a symptom of balanced clock speeds

[thorny cedar]

yea on avg

[fierce ruin]

no always

[thorny cedar]

so if you produce more on avg the lectricity will "even out"

on avg

[fierce ruin]

its not about producing more, its about having your machines running at 100%, when they arent your wasting energy

[thorny cedar]

even if i produce 1000 and theroretical need 10000 mw and i only use 259 itl even out on avg to 2590 mw

[thorny cedar]

thats the basic so i dont understand and if i need pi number of items i need pi multiply number of energy on avg

[fierce ruin]

the only spikes i have in my power is from trains and gysers

[uneven kernel]

hey guys, how can I understand this? How can I make these specific number ouput? How do I make 2.25 constructors?

[fierce ruin]

cross multiple and divide

[thorny cedar]

whatever but basic math

[fierce ruin]

easiest is to double your total constructors then divide 2.25 / 4

[wind spade]

underclock one of 3 to 25%

[fierce ruin]

that will give you your clock speed to set each of the 4 machines

you can also underclock just one, but it uses less energy if you underclock them all.

[uneven kernel]

ok, 0.25 I can understand now, but what is this random number?

[thorny cedar]

na its multiplied

sorry

[wind spade]

which random number?

[thorny cedar]

😦

[uneven kernel]

1.44, 3.72. 4.56

I can't do the math for these number. Maybe underclock?

[wind spade]

it's the same

1.44 = 144% in total

so either one machine at 144% or two machines at 100+44% or two machines as 72% or whatever

[uneven kernel]

so I just have to match the performent of the machine, and then divive the output evenly for later stage. Then I'll be good to go, won't I?

[fierce ruin]

basically yes.

right the amount produced is the same, but a machine running at 59% will use half the electricity, so running two machines at 59% should produce more output then 1 machine at 100% using the same electricity.

by the time you get to nuclear, you will have able electricity. however underclocking like a 100 machines is a huge pain and more complex then just underclocking one machine with the rest at 100. again its personal preference and play style

[barren elm]

Just in case you're not aware, you can look at a machine and hit ctrl+c, then ctrl+v on any other machine to copy that setting

Also having the hover pack equipped increases that interaction range quite a lot

Tho 100 machines is about the time I'd consider just changing it in SCIM

[main shuttle]

is there a reason they made the power towers just slightly larger than a foundation?

[wind spade]

is there a reason to put it on a foundation? 😛

[main shuttle]

i've seen some people run stuff underneath it, & it looks good like that

[wind spade]

it has very nice supports imo

[main shuttle]

was thinking of maybe doing some single-wide foundation stuff with power/tubes/conveyors, but man those leg overhangs annoy me

[river night]

if your ground is flat i would use it without a foundation, but if its not...

maybe concrete pillars instead of a foundation though, will have to explore some ideas

[versed violet]

uneven ground

[wind spade]

don't the supports reach further if on uneven ground, like any other machines do?

[river night]

nope

suppose would be nice if they added that

assume it looks good

[versed violet]

sadly, no extending supports

[median heath]

Was getting electrocuted.

You want the short version or the long version of the 45/81 rule?

[thorny cedar]

the long one

i dont understand

[median heath]

So the premise of the 45-81 rule is getting production in "clean numbers" with respect to clock speed.
As you may or may not know, the game enforces a 4 decimal limit on clock speeds (it does not care about parts per minute, nor does anything in the game actually operate on parts per minute, EVERYTHING is done in individual cycles with respect to clock speed for cycle time)

Example: if you tell a Smelter to do 20/min instead of 30/min, the clock % changes to 66.6666%.
The UI will say 20 ppm, but this is a lie to make you feel better about yourself. The machine truncates anything after xx.xxxx%, so you do not actually get 20/min, you get 66.6666% of 30 (which is 19.99998).
Now, to MOST people, this doesn't matter. But I am a stickler for precision, so not actually getting 20 bothers me (even though you'd literally see a production difference only after a couple hundred thousand cycles).

So the math was done to find out how to make production lines "behave", and the first thing we solved was the 81 part of the rule. With respect to Rubber/Plastic - always do them in multiples of 81 and all machines in the recycled loop automatically fall within the 4 decimal limit. No repeating numbers, no imprecision.
The 45 part of the rule applies to non-oil products. Do your final product amount in multiples of 45 and everything in the production chain automatically behaves without you needing to think about it.
Exceptions: Caterium Circuit Board, Pure Iron, Fine Concrete
(CtCB and PureFe usually outweigh the rule because you'll be doing them in such large quantities that they fine a common multiple somewhere up the chain.
No one should ever use Fine Concrete.)

Note: 45-81 is the lowest whole number multiple, but you can cut them in halves to achieve closer to your actual goals.
I.E. 45/22.5/11.25/5.625/2.8125, or 81/40.5/20.25/10.125 (going lower than 10.125 on oil causes issues)

So if you needed 100 Plastic, I would instead say to make 81+20.25=101.25

[thorny cedar]

ty

[cloud apex]

Do trains do anything to increase efficiency?

[median heath]

Define efficiency?

[barren elm]

There's nothing that forces you into trains if that's what you're asking

[supple belfry]

Capacity: more cars

Speed: another engine, or a shorter route

[snow dove]

more speed=less max throughput

[brittle terrace]

im makin my first steel factory for my new save and im wondering how i should divide up my steel? imma be making 2430/min hom much should i use for beams and pipe?

[teal summit]

My first steel factory is half and half and it’s been sufficient for me, but I tend to use slightly more steel beams than pipes

I mean production rates of both are equal^

[snow dove]

not a good idea to setup production like that, produce whatever your factory consumes on-site

[median heath]

You are the only person who can answer "how much" because you are the only person who knows your production goals and needs.

If you have no idea, start at 50/50 and then adjust later as necessary.

[vapid gorge]

certainly is a good ratio

[median heath]

Expecting it to be fucked when recipe rebalance happens.
So math will have to be redone and new ratio/rule established 😁

[wind spade]

do not build in advance

wait until you know how much you need and build that much

[brittle terrace]

That’s prob the best response tbh

I was thinkin goin 70% beams but I may just make the factory and just add beam/pipe as I need it

[vapid gorge]

well both are just 'send ingots to constructor' so if you're happy to change the clocking later it's easy to change the ratio - plus there's a great alt Recipe for Encased Pipes rather than Encased Beams that really saves you on steel so you can mostly make pipes after you get that alt if you like

[median heath]

I like the base recipe for EIB better tbh.

[vapid gorge]

the 80 ratio thingo?

[true junco]

"Instructions unclear, built nothing because I dont 'need' to do anything. Have just logged 1000 hours staring out the door of the drop pod"

Lol

[teal summit]

This is my building materials factory, not using the pipes and beams for anything other than building

[snow dove]

I was talking to the other guy

[brittle terrace]

i have a new question... i have 6 sections each maiking i think it was 405 ingots per second i only have lvl 3 belts meaning i can evenly slpit it all into 9 mk3 belts but how would i do that? smart splitters? im just not sure or would it just be easier to wait till i have mk4 belts

[vapid gorge]

well if you have 18 machines and want it on 9 belts only merge 2 machines per belt

and you could put 405 ingots onto 2 mk3 belts if you wanted

for ease of transport if you wanted the 9 even belts at the end you could put it evenly on 3 belts and then split each belt into 3 at the destination

[lethal prism]

Since you are overclocking like crazy anyway (right? Basic output of solid steel is 60/m right?) you could set them all to 135/m, then just merge 2 foundries onto one belt and just repeat that for every set of 2

[timid vector]

Anyone Wana Play On The Weekend?

[snow dove]

#looking-for-group-old

[copper cypress]

Can someone push me in the right direction? I'm trying to pup water to a muuuuuch higher level I would guess 100m how can I increase the presure so that the valves work as expected?

[snow dove]

don’t use valves

and you would need pumps

[copper cypress]

I have multiple level 2 pumps, but the backflow breaks everything

that means that is my understanding

[snow dove]

prefill the pipes

and if you’re working near the upper limit of the pipe throughput, loop the manifold

[thorny cedar]

you only use uncaped valves

or spec valves?

[copper cypress]

uncaped

I'm still in my first gameplay trying my first aluminium manifacture^^

[snow dove]

even uncapped valves aren’t all that helpful, it’ll just backflow to the valve

loop any manifolds, and don’t mix fresh and recycled water

[copper cypress]

that makes differences?

I was thinking about circeling it

[thorny cedar]

yea but capped valves are a whole different hole so i was making sure

[snow dove]

yeah you just never use capped valves

i have a lengthy explanation somewhere if anyone wants it

[thorny cedar]

i can explain to you in detail how i use them with my water

bcs i dont care about the loss

bcs 8bit...

[snow dove]

well there’s three options,
one you got lucky and you happened to find a value it actually accepts,
two it rounded up, the valve ain’t really doing anything at all,
three, it rounded down, after some period of time a machine on the output side of the valve will starve

[thorny cedar]

you can split pipes as u wish with this and some storage

[snow dove]

there is no “splitting pipes”

[copper cypress]

does my production make sense there? or should I move everything down?

[snow dove]

pipes do whatever they need to get themselves worked out

[oblique hollow]

whenever i use valves i just set them higher than what i really need.
The only thing i dont use valves for is trying to merge precise numbers

[oblique hollow]

actual ingame images would help

[thorny cedar]

higher than needed but lower than max pipe combined yea

[oblique hollow]

yeah

but approaching the pipe max is a dumb idea anyway

[thorny cedar]

i only use it for water bcs i can handle the little waste

[oblique hollow]

the sensitivity of them is well known and i simply rather build a new pipe before i approach the max of the current one

[thorny cedar]

but u need some sort of buffer in uneven destribution

or the backflow + valves combination choke your system to death

[snow dove]

I made my life painful by using 16 full mk1 pipes in my fuel plant

[snow dove]

buffers that aren’t being used with trains either do nothing, or conceal the underlying issue for a time

[oblique hollow]

that doesnt make sense logically because buffers only allow you to move fluid to the side. You HAVE to use that fluid at some point
If you have valves with constant flow, then everything has to move through them anyway

[copper cypress]

Here we go

[thorny cedar]

i feed from below

[snow dove]

you don’t need valves nor buffers to do that

[oblique hollow]

yeah thats unrelated and you just need a shit ton of pumps

Mk 2 pipes simply die when you feed from below and thats unavoidable

the more splits you have, the worse it gets

looping probably helps

[thorny cedar]

yea

[oblique hollow]

just make sure you dont exceed head lift on these pumps.
and make sure the first pipeline pump is placed as low as possible

water extractors dont have that much pressure

most people overestimate Water extractor Head lift

[snow dove]

10m

[thorny cedar]

the leway is 10% above headlift

[oblique hollow]

and then their shit doesnt work

[snow dove]

the top of the weird smokestack thing is 18m for reference

[thorny cedar]

idk you can go 10% above max headlift for every pump and every building

[snow dove]

i usually put my first pump just a tiny bit after the extractor

[snow dove]

you shouldn’t tho

[oblique hollow]

why would you go near the limit tho

[snow dove]

you shouldn’t ever work with the upper limit of headlift

[thorny cedar]

every hologram pump is 55m

[oblique hollow]

the hologram snaps to 50

[thorny cedar]

not for me

[oblique hollow]

but the pipe splits into 55 m because the splitting code is weird like that

[thorny cedar]

:O?!?

[oblique hollow]

whenever you snap, you get longer pipes

thats why that tolerance exists to begin with i assume

so it doesnt mess up when you snap

mk 2 pumps are longer than mk 1 so theres even longer pipes when you snap

hence they have +5 m

and mk 1 have +2 m

[thorny cedar]

yea 10%

auto snap

[oblique hollow]

yeah thats the extra 2 m from the pump length

if you rebuild the pipe now, it will be 50

because the snap point was always at 50 to begin with

[thorny cedar]

yea but it varies if the first pump is hori or vertical

[oblique hollow]

because the snapping is for both sides of the pump

if the pipe is longer horizontally, it doesn tmatter

[thorny cedar]

i know was just saying

so u get some space to work does not need to be exactly @ topic

[oblique hollow]

if you have 2 vertical snaps, then you get double the extra length

which would be 54 m total here

[thorny cedar]

does anyone got the math behind the lifetime of iodine infused filter?
12 sec is cap
that what the wiki tells

is it the same as radiation with 12? as ceiling?

[true junco]

I never checked. But with the whole snapping pumps and splitters etc, do you always get the same amount of parts back if you dismantle? 🤔 never bothered to check since nowadays i roll up to a construction site with 32 rail cars of "all materials worth storing" minus stators, plus a car for consumables and power shards...

[thorny cedar]

you do

ficsit ♻️ 100%

[brittle terrace]

thats true 🙂 i was thinking about it last night and im just building it as i would with mk4 belts and just gonna upgrade em when i unlock

[true junco]

Interesting. I was curious because the placing of the attachment does sever the belt or pipe. Figured there might be a rounding error somwhere that would lose an item once in a while. Theremight be, just would have to have a very specific length of pipe or belt being split, or adding a lot of attachments to split up the belt or pipe...

[thorny cedar]

you see the items on a 780 belt overlap at the start and finish visual?

on every segment

[median heath]

If you do certain loops with mergers you can get extra stuff back when dismantling.

[main dirge]

Ridiculous how little iron you need compared to all other resources tbh

And how much there is

[winter wave]

Yeah but it basically is needed in small quantities for a ton of building and everything

[swift robin]

you can always alloy it with copper if you really feel the need to use it

[red river]

i just use iron without ever considering how much i'm using

wires or cables? iron. copper ingots? iron. beacons for nuclear? all iron.

[main dirge]

Can't 😭

Iron wire takes so much space but even then the amount of iron it actually needs is tiny

[swift robin]

and now with bps we can slap down 24 constructors pumping out iron wire in a moment

[main dirge]

Not that it's even worth it over water anyway unless you're real space constrained

[red river]

i just try to bake iron wire constructors into blueprints for things that need iron anyways, rather than explicitly produce iron wire to transport

for example, i have a blueprint that takes 120.4 iron ingots and produces 7.5 beacon. I chain 5 of those together and feed it 600 iron ingots, and call it a day

(even though it technically doesn't run at 100% efficiency, 99.6% is good enough)

[dusky zenith]

sevrahn has entered the chat

[vapid gorge]

so much space? it's about the same. Per ingot iron produces only slightly less

[main dirge]

Oh huh ig I misremembered

[red river]

iron wire outputs 22.5, regular copper wire outputs 30, so iron wire takes 1/3 more space, which i feel isn't detrimental

[true junco]

Fused wire supremacy. Lol

[prisma kraken]

hey give a little love to caterium wire too!

[true junco]

Not a fan actually. Lol

[prisma kraken]

its good when you have a little caterium leftover and need to do something with it

really its either use quickwire stator or cat wire in that situation, and cat wire is preferable

[true junco]

I pretty much always plan for and set up for fused wire and fused quickwire now. Fused quickwire gets so much milage from caterium that i have plenty of caterium left over to make fused wire. So it always seams to work out. Iron wire is just the backup plan to this general strategy for me. Only because iron is so plentiful and steel is so easy to mass produce and combine with plastic etc to crank out basic iron parts in extremely large volumes, that the only real use i have left for iron is to make wire. 😆

[prisma kraken]

it generally does, yeah

[wise sky]

is this the most efficient way to set up a steel factory? if it is then are the iron/coal miners supposed to be 120 or 240

[red river]

it works as a starter steel factory, but i wouldn't call it efficient. Solid Steel Ingot alternative is just drastically better than the default recipe

with the diagram as is and assuming no overclocking, it's 180 iron/coal input, so it seems to assume mark 1 belt with 60 for each input line (i didn't not double check the splitter/merger lines carefully)

[wise sky]

is the fastest way to get this to just go looking for hard drives around the map?

[true junco]

Its the only way to get it.

[red river]

yeah, unfortunately no fast way for alternate recipes

assuming full vanilla with no save edit or advanced game mode

(neither of which I would suggest for the first save)

[wise sky]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

i shall go looking

[red river]

i would still just build that factory if you are just entering steel tech

still useful to have a trickle coming in, especially since there are probably already a lot of available alternates, so it may take a while to specifically get solid steel

[wise sky]

okay thank you

[red river]

(and the steel pipes in that is 80/min, so not exactly a trickle :p)

[prisma kraken]

there's some ways of gaming the recipe selections

[red river]

really? i wasn't aware of any other than delaying certain milestone unlocks

[prisma kraken]

i always intentionally do so specifically to grab solid steel

if you unlock 9 hard drives before starting phase 2, and don't research anything in the sulfur, caterium or quartz trees in the mam, AND unlock basic steel production before coal power, solid steel will be in the first HD you research in phase 2

[red river]

good to know, so that means only 11 alternates that are strict phase 1?

[prisma kraken]

the pool starts at 6 recipes (iron & copper alloy, iron wire, bolted plate, stitched plate, cast screw), part assembly adds bolted frame, copper rotor and the first inventory expansion

basic steel production then adds solid steel, steel rod, steel rotor and maybe one more

so if you slumb on biomass for a little bit and hd hunt, you can get most of the useful early game recipes as sort of forced choices

[red river]

i'll have to keep that in mind if i ever do a new save

it also means 5-6 hard drive would make solid steel pretty likely if all research delayed (though that's an hour of waiting on the MAM while on bio power)

[prisma kraken]

it doesn't really save a whole lot of time, but i find it useful to force specifically the cast screw and solid steel recipes

cast screw is very good for saving power in rip and rotor production when you're still on biomass

i can pretty much do the tutorial + grab all the alt recipes available in phase 1 in about 3 hrs

its highly dependent on where you start, however, too much travel if you start in GF or DD

there's a few other benefits of 'eager' hd hunting as well

[cinder silo]

If you're epic lazy you could just farm up four hd's then use the split bug to make the rest 🤣

[prisma kraken]

because you are going to be doing a rapid fire unlocking of just the recipes i mentioned, you can avoid really making a rip production line because gathering wire and dumping it into an assembler for stitched plate makes a good amount for early game needs, and the wire and cable can be gathered from crash sites, as will they have a decent number of mod frames

um, yeah, i did that once, lol

[cinder silo]

Same for shards, I was quite shocked how trivial that glitch is though, I thought the 007 from update 7 was bad enough.

[prisma kraken]

tickets too!

[cinder silo]

Oh man yeah, duping tickets would allow for a proper fast speed run.

[prisma kraken]

I think i said that i did a phase 1 proof of concept with the dup bug, and my time for it w/o rehearsing was ~25 minutes

really its a matter of hitting the 2 nf crash sites for rips, wire & cable, grabbing 4 limestone, 4 iron and then sitting at the craft terminal until you have 4 rotors and part assembly unlocked, connecting an assembler to the burners and waiting on the smart plates

[teal summit]

im having trouble progressing rn, im on tier 5 and i wanna build a motor factory, but all of the coal nodes near me are being used. If i adventure for coal, its really far away and i need a gas mask and better traversal (i can go there manually with platforms and ladders but its a pain). whats the best option for me? is it just to explore more?

actually better question, once i unlock oil can i rid myself of my coal powerplant?

that way i can use the coal for motors instead

[wind spade]

Find a place where there is both iron and coal and build the factory there as outpost

[red river]

you technically can, but i don't think i have ever gotten rid of my coal power plant in any save

in fact, i think i just double my coal power plant once i have mk2 miner and mk3 belt unlocked

fuel generator is pretty far down the line

[cinder silo]

I took my coal plants down, only to build others to take up wastewater after my famous closed loop failures that caused me to run out of patience in the end.

[remote robin]

Is there a website for creating rail lines and placing signals to ensure your system works before building it?

[deft lichen]

No not really

[remote robin]

Damn. That'd be useful

[deft lichen]

Well sketch up the track layout and post it in #1038092680493801533

I don't think it would be necessary because you need to follow relatively simple rules for it to work

[remote robin]

Yeah but maybe it'd help for debugging. Sometimes I put the signals down and it doesn't work as intended and it takes a while to figure out why

[deft lichen]

1. don't attempt bidirectional tracks
2. use block signals for straight segments, blocks at least as big as your longest train
3. use path signals when entering junctions (any kind of merge/split really)

[remote robin]

Yep, I'm following those rules and having trouble still. This part of my rail network is pretty complex. I'll make a post in the questions channel

Wait aren't merges supposed to have block signals?

At the actual merging point

[wind spade]

use path signals when you don't want a train to stop in the next section
use block signals otherwise

[swift robin]

what's wrong with bidirectional tracks?

[wind spade]

low throughput

[swift robin]

huh why?

[wind spade]

because only one train can go at it at one time?

[swift robin]

oh u mean for sharing tracks

see i was thinking a bidirectional track sounds pretty great for a solo train to minimize track needed

[wind spade]

obviously, when you have single train on your whole network, it doesn't matter at all what signals or tracks you use 😄

[median heath]

1. Read Signal Logic Rules
2. Link Signal Logic Rules
3. Cry because I wrote that entire guide for nothing it seems 😭

[median heath]

I would debate this but it is 5 a.m...

[wind spade]

there's nothing to debate 🤷‍♂️ single track can never have more throughput than two tracks

[median heath]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[remote robin]

Can you link the guide please?

[median heath]

Pinned in #old-questions-and-help

[remote robin]

Legend, ty

[deft lichen]

Didn't realize it's pinned, mb

[wind spade]

@hard wind see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[hard wind]

PInned messages?

[wind spade]

no, just the message I linked

[hard wind]

Thank you!

@wind spade Do I have to unlock all the tiers and milestones to get some recipes? Or the milestone/tier doesn't matter?

[wind spade]

yeah, all alt recipes have some milestone requirements to be available to get

wiki has list of all the requirements on "Hard Drive" page

[hard wind]

What if I scan an hardrive that needs a specific milestone/tier? Will it waste the hard drive or I'll get the hardrive back?

[wind spade]

all harddrives are equal
if you scan any, the game looks at the currently available pool of alt recipes and picks three at random

if none are in the pool, the drive is returned

[hard wind]

I see, thank you

[frosty owl]

#all_hard_drives_are_queens

[burnt musk]

anyone willing to help me with water logistics questions?

[wind spade]

well, ideally ask the question first 🙂

[burnt musk]

i have a grid o 8 water extractors on a lake all powered w/ mk1 pipes and 2 out puts to a 16 coal generators in lines of 8

yet i cant keep them fed with water

ive read that articas stating that flow is hlafed at each intersection but what about over flow

dose that not aplly

[wind spade]

flow isn't halved?

flow is bidirectional and works based on amounts of fluids in pipes

[burnt musk]

i have a 920 yeild with a 720 requierment

yet im still lacking flow

[elfin nebula]

you try to put all the water through a single pipe?

[burnt musk]

2

[wind spade]

what tier?

[burnt musk]

mk1

[wind spade]

that's 300 max per pipe

[elfin nebula]

so 460 through 300 pipe

[burnt musk]

??

[wind spade]

mk1 pipe can do max 300/min

[burnt musk]

right

[wind spade]

you have two mk1s, so 600/min max

[burnt musk]

where did you get 460

[elfin nebula]

half of 920

[wind spade]

half of 920

[elfin nebula]

since you said 2 pipes

[fringe quartz]

Half of 920

[burnt musk]

ok

so if i add 2 more ouputs dropping each pipe to 230 would that help

[wind spade]

if you keep pipes at 300 or below, it will work

[burnt musk]

ok intresting ill give that a go and see how it works

thanks

[main dirge]

Can't remember if I mentioned but wrote up a quick python sim for multiple trains on one route, since the wiki only has maths for a single train, if anyone's interested - example given for 15m (+ ~2-3m extra for interspacing) round trip and input of 3 Mk5 belts of ore

[prisma kraken]

you haven't gotten fancy with your code and figured in stack sizes & selective filtering, have you?

[main dirge]

Stack sizes are in, wdym selective filtering

If you mean multiple items per carriage, that's not explicitly there, but you could just use the average stack size ig

[prisma kraken]

you can filter what trains pick up and drop off at various stations

i've never really had occasion to use the feature, but in theory, you could exceed the ~1490 items/min from a train car using it

[true junco]

How?

[main dirge]

It's based around p2p but it should work for more stations as long as only one is loading

Or you just do the same simulation twice for the forwards and return trip

[prisma kraken]

by having the train pick up and drop off at multiple stations

i've not really mathed it all out, but i think it would only really work with 500-stack items

[main dirge]

It's more efficient to just have multiple p2p trains usually

[prisma kraken]

agreed

like the only time i could see it being of use is in transporting wire & quickwire

[main dirge]

If you've got one item type per carriage though it's basically just multiple trains on longer routes anyway

[prisma kraken]

yeah, this would be more like a 4 or 5 carraige train containing mixed loads of wire & quickwire

i don't think i'd ever build something like that, tbh

[main dirge]

I should probably finally automate HMFs at 240h and a big train network 😅

All these vehicle transport options and the fastest is still hypertube cannon

[true junco]

Sounds like a good time to mention...

"Have you heard of our lord and savior Fused Wire and Fused Quickwire?" 😆

The math on transporting wire and QW is abysmal compared to just moving Copper and Caterium Ingots. Even more so if you also bring rubber. For cranking that wire into cables. 😆

[prisma kraken]

oh, i know, i do that instead, its just something i thought of in the shower

[true junco]

Oh i know. We were talking about that earlier. (The fused alts. Not your shower thoughts Lol.) Just reminded me is all.

[main dirge]

I mean there's the caveat that you need bigger trains for the same raw material throughput

Can only pull two belts per wagon and wire is at least nearly double the number of items -> double the number of trains for throughputs higher than 1 belt of ingots

Less trains bc higher stack, but more wagons so more space at the station

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i think it best in train design to go with a 4 or 5 car standard and just work with that

[main dirge]

Using mixed trains personally bc the speed cap is basically always around 120

[prisma kraken]

i use a 4 car standard, but i'm really tempted to go to 5 car specifically for splitting the ingots for fused quick/wire

[vapid gorge]

couldn't you wait until the train is fully loaded for cars full of wire? kinda solves the problem

So have a buffer of wire at the place you drop it off so your train can wait at the other end until everything is full of wire

[main dirge]

Got 1-2, 1-3, 2-4, and 2-6 so far, and about to make a 3-8

[vapid gorge]

3-8? are you rails really steep?

[main dirge]

I'm using helical rails but the 2-6 manages

[vapid gorge]

I think 1-4 manages the steepest you can reasonably do rail? could be wrong though

[main dirge]

Can only (slowly) reach 50 without a running start going uphill but that shouldn't happen much

Wouldn't want to try for 1-4

[vapid gorge]

Unless the stop is right before the climb is should be ok, my trains never suffered on steep hills 1-4

[main dirge]

I've got to rebuild it anyway since I want to expand the station to add the 3-8 station in parallel

It's got a run-up rn but I'll need to reverse the station direction so might just have to add a bit of padding for acceleration

Plus I've only just implemented redundancy into my sim which it needs retrofitting for

... Thought I had a pic but unfortunately, hands 🥲
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1061438625163792445/1151279471266111620/image.png

[vapid gorge]

oof sky rail. Why not belt the stuff to a station at the level from the ground?

[median heath]

Just going to mention that trucks are still a very good method for logistics and handle mixed item loads very well.

[main dirge]

It heads over to spire coast - wouldn't have two helices either but it's to separate the 1-2 North coal trains which'd be slowed by the 2-6 iron and 3-8 limestone in central dunes

[prisma kraken]

by very good, i think he means f***ing awful 😛

[vapid gorge]

slowed?

[main dirge]

Keep trying to find places to accommodate them but it's just not lining up for me rn 😔

Will probably make use of grabbing resources from the southeast

All the caterium around that area I'll need that's right next to coal and isn't worth train infrastructure

[main dirge]

They're half the speed going uphill

[median heath]

If you're building in the sky you probably won't find places.

[vapid gorge]

but how do the other trains slow the other?

[main dirge]

If I only had one helix instead of two and a ground rail instead (skyrail access is needed for later), the faster trains would go up the same slope as the slower ones and get significantly delayed

[vapid gorge]

right but if you lift the material to a station already up there you avoid slow spirals is what I was saying

[main dirge]

I've radar'd the world and explored manually already :p

Also my second world so I'm familiar with the south already

[median heath]

Only your second? 😉

[main dirge]

Too many belts, easier to use rail blueprints and slap down extra stations as needed than building three dozen belt elevators and a massive ugly floating platform

[median heath]

As opposed to the massive ugly floating platform in your screenshot?

[main dirge]

Hey, it has, like, two pillars 🥲

[vapid gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-its-true-its-a-secret-secret-gif-12343241

[median heath]

You know I have no restrictions on dropping honesty bombs 😁

[vapid gorge]

Everyone has their perspective on that sort of thing and what is 'too much' floating platform

[main dirge]

Fr though the main reason is I started from the highest peak in crater lakes to connect red jungle and spire coast, and bc I started in U7 it was just way easier to use a straight skybridge and helices without blueprint build mode

[vapid gorge]

Everyone has their style and approach

[median heath]

I find train elevators easier than spirals 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

spirals are 🤢

[main dirge]

Did build a couple of ramps but U7 blueprints were so painful for them I just did manually

[vapid gorge]

I tihnk elevators tend to add more trip time than spirals

[wind spade]

either ramp or transfer with elevators

[main dirge]

Elevators?

[thorny cedar]

i would like to be able to throw my trains with jump pats

[vapid gorge]

station at the bottom, belt lifts up, station at top

[main dirge]

Ah

[vapid gorge]

do that with trucks

[main dirge]

Wait you can do that

[wind spade]

how can elevator add trip time?

[vapid gorge]

truck jumping or train elevators?

[main dirge]

Truck jumping

[vapid gorge]

extra load time?

[thorny cedar]

ofc everything goes onto jump pads

[wind spade]

it splits a route in two, so unless the route was super fast, it's most likely saving more than 27 seconds

[thorny cedar]

trucks factory carts lizzard doggos

you name it i throw it

[median heath]

Yes. It's the one use Jump Pads serve.

[vapid gorge]

hmm I'd be curious what the trip times it becomes an improvement

[wind spade]

sure, it makes it longer for item to reach destination, but that doesn't matter for anything past the first item (as after then it's all about throughput)

[main dirge]

I mean in fairness they've been pretty useful with my starter base built over the canyon

Pre power tower zipline and before unlocking jetpack, have been useful

[median heath]

Hypetubes do everything better in terms of personal transport.

[main dirge]

Yeah but have you considered

Boinggg

[thorny cedar]

or just use the good old belt escalator

[main dirge]

Not enough good cliff ledges near my base

Had to use mixed belts and ziplines to build the pads

[vapid gorge]

Tunnelrat method and have belt tunnels 😄

[median heath]

If you're building suboptimal for the sake of enjoyment that is fine, but means there is no discussion because we've wandered into "I have fun doing this" land

[main dirge]

I've had to deconstruct most of my hypertubes anyway bc of U8 changes so

Jump pads stay winning ig

Just easier to use mk5 belts and biofuel jetpack now

[median heath]

I have not noticed any difference in hypertubes in U8, so what are you referencing?

[main dirge]

I was using almost entirely cyclotrons xd

[median heath]

Oh, if you're using those or hypercannon setups, sure.
But baseline hypertubes are still superior to jumppads.

[main dirge]

I was using cyclotrons before continuous tubes as well for the speed 😢

But yeah I'm literally only using pads to get up that one cliff that I never have a reason to go down intentionally

One long hypertube, and everywhere else I'm just accessing from an overpowered cannon I cba to expand on until U8 stable bc there's still bugs with cannons rn

Very centralised starter base and a couple of distant outposts (inc steel that I've never fully automated xd) so that's working for me

[prisma kraken]

never discount the pulse nobelisks for fast travel

whacking a pile of 10 of them with the basher will launch you across the map 🙂

[broken quest]

is whacking better than detonating

[thorny cedar]

thats the delivery port

[subtle dew]

your transporting the batterys could you show me the connections

[thorny cedar]

wait autosave :c

[worthy jewel]

the batterys ONLY in the battery slot

not in the input

[subtle dew]

theres a port on the back with a battery symbol over thhe port

[thorny cedar]

here is the only outgoing port

[worthy jewel]

you‘re transporting batterys with the drone

[thorny cedar]

sometimes you deliver batteries with batteries

[worthy jewel]

ONLY IN BATTERY PORT

[subtle dew]

yes but what do you want to transport

[worthy jewel]

just deliver it to the battery thing

[thorny cedar]

ok i start again... i transport batteries to a couple of drone ports via a drone... should be all good but somehow even the ports should consume somewhat around 60 bats per minute they do like... 400?

[worthy jewel]

this port doesnt even have batterys use a splitter

[worthy jewel]

idk im in german lesson

[subtle dew]

only one port needs batterys

[thorny cedar]

sorry you dont know how drone ports work based on that

i could conclude so far

[worthy jewel]

aber er will batterien transportieren

[worthy jewel]

sorry havent played satis since 1 week

[subtle dew]

ok thats weird i dont know whats wrong

[worthy jewel]

only one port needs batterys sorry

[thorny cedar]

at first i was thinking maybe they do dump them into the void after some time but they dont they just eat them

and with a avg cons of about 2-3 bats per minute per drone... 240 bats could easily power twice the amount of drone i got

[subtle dew]

thats weird i use drones the same way and when the port is full drones dont fly

[thorny cedar]

i know if i look my does not either

but as soon as i go away they start to eat

[worthy jewel]

what u now doing

answer me

@thorny cedar

[vapid gorge]

lmao, 'answer me'

[worthy jewel]

i now have brain capicity left

[worthy jewel]

ok

[vapid gorge]

man king of the edits and deletes over here

[subtle dew]

he got training from our private server where he deletes and edit everything

[worthy jewel]

ok

[lethal prism]

What computer recipe do you guys use to automate computers? What are some arguments for the different recipes?

I’m currently thinking of going crystal computers, but i’ve seen some people say it’s bad. Not sure why though

[elfin nebula]

crystal computers best computers

though i just like the simplicity and making oscillators.
also i combine them with caterium boards.
caterium/crystal computers and caterium/silicon boards are both extremely good recipes, actual combination depends on other usage and some personal preference.
i do caterium boards and crystal computers, because that fits the needs the best

when only doing computers with all resources, best would be caterium computers and all boards mixed. but you dont do just computers, so you cant use that as a decision base in terms of resource efficiency

also fastly stitching together some boards and oscillators is fancy

no need for manufacturers is nice

and different from supercomputers, the small assembler recepy is actually good

[true junco]

Im defintely saying to transport caterium and copper ingots instead of wire. Because you effectively transport way more wire that way.

[thorny cedar]

i like caterium computers more 🍿

[elfin nebula]

i like both. crystal just works better with our plans logistically. caterium needs oil, the place we planned has no oil, all gets used for turbofuel and the caterium boards. so crystal computers are easier for us

[thorny cedar]

same...i just like them more i dont use them atm tho bcs of the exact same reason

[elfin nebula]

and doing boards and computers on different sides of the map seems unnecessary complicated

[thorny cedar]

i ship out the computers and build the boards there

yea

[elfin nebula]

so not both types of the same.
so cat boards + crystal comps or silicon board + cat comp
and first fits better

both caterium is possible, but logistically weird in our situation

its time for bed now

[thorny cedar]

relocated my drones so this should fix the battery situation ty @opaque oak again i was literaly looking at nothing for almost 2 days :/ and about to do a new battery factory for more batteries

[wind spade]

There's no bad or good recipes, every recipe is a tradeoff of some sort. Pick what you like most and use it 🙂

[main dirge]

Factory plans have no spare copper unfortunately, still worth it even for iron wire imo though unless it's ~<1500 wire/m bc train infrastructure is just slightly more effort

Need to look at caterium wire bc I've got a node or two spare but tbh iron is so abundant is probably easier to just slap down an extra 24 constructor blueprint than train in and probably refine caterium

[vapid gorge]

depends on your locations and volume you want to put out. Imo cat comps works well with cat CB to reduce the types of resources you need to make them on location.

I tend to build bigger and I'll pick spots with cat and crystal so I can combo cat cb and cry comps

and you can always do a mix if it works to a location

[true junco]

Yeah. This is part of how the convo a while back went about that.

Fused alts first because it can make the most quickwire, and the excess can make more wire than i usually need anyways. It just makes for simple logistics and planning and is very good at feeding lines that need wire or quickwire because they are so productive. Iron wire is just a supplimental/backup option that works simply because iron is the most abundant resource after water.

[gray flower]

is 120 coal per minute in 8 gens or am i doing it wrong

[oblique hollow]

it is correct. if it doesnt work you messed up

[gray flower]

i am trying something new this playthouggh

little qol mods no pure node no massive extraction

no fly unless gettting my stuff

and i am not going to build up in the air and ill build on the ground

@oblique hollow 🙂

[hybrid star]

A few years ago there was a bug where if put 600 of a liquid into a pipe and manifolded it out to however many liquid hungry machines that want exactly 600 liquid it wouldn't work, the last machine would not get enough. Once upon a time the answer was to max out the liquid at less than 600 per pipe. Can we now feed in 600 liquid into 600 pipe and expect the output to make sense?

[frosty owl]

Yes, if you pipe things well enough. Using pipes at max throughput can be challenging, overall

[median heath]

Yes, with the giant asterisk of "IF YOU BUILD IT PROPERLY"

[snow dove]

*

[vapid gorge]

if you build it right and preflood the system, yes

[true junco]

Bigger.

[frosty owl]

Looking for tips/opinions/suggestions...
Playthrough idea: U8, vanilla, starting from T1 up to Golden Cup, with video (timelapse of sorts, I guess).
Cheats: Alt Recipes aviable; flight (?).
Challenges: Most stuff on a power grid with a perfectly flat power draw; ALL machines must be fed via a single solid input (fluids are free to use). So, single-input-sushi for everything, even early game... Also, no handcrafting of any items I can automate (example of exception: Rotors for the first Assembler).

I think it could make for a fun way to progress through the game and present some interesting challenges and problem-solving along the way...

[rigid turtle]

nuclear pasta with a flat power draw would certainly be annoying

but impressive

[versed violet]

nuclear pasta on geogens?

[snow dove]

consumption wouldn't be flat

[vapid gorge]

not sure what the combo of geogens and power storage might do if you calced it perfectly. Would the charging of the storage make the line flat as it's all getting used?

[vapid gorge]

so show a picture of your set up, preferably from a bit higher up shot

[harsh thorn]

so im thinking of sulphur+4 coal gens

alr just a moment

alr so

i have the 2 base bio gens and

4 coal gens, 2 are full overclocked and 1 is only 1 energy rod overclocked

did my best to take a quick screenshot

@vapid gorge

[vapid gorge]

ok so building tips? avoid having to pump water up if you can

bring the generators down, especially if you're not used to piping

[harsh thorn]

oh im used to piping i use the thing that uhh

[vapid gorge]

2nd tip - build on foundations, much easier to keep it organised.

[harsh thorn]

holdon whats the thing called

[vapid gorge]

no offense - but I see a couple pumps right before the generator, that suggests you haven't done much piping 🙂

[harsh thorn]

fair enough

OH RIGHT THATS WHAT THEYRE CALLED

i use pumps is that bad like does that use too much MW

[vapid gorge]

well it's more that it shouldn't be nescesarry

and while messy factories are generally 'fine' , you really want to keep anything to do with power neat and tidy

I'd demolish the whole thing and pick a spot closer to water and bring the coal/sulfur to it

[harsh thorn]

alr

but then my entire fuse work will be fucked up since these coal gens are the only things i use for power

[vapid gorge]

Also plan it out so you don't have to overclock your coal generators - keeping it to 100% makes it simpler to organise and all overclocking does is save you space

[harsh thorn]

overclock

[vapid gorge]

yeah you'll need to reboot them with some bio burners

[harsh thorn]

fair enough

[vapid gorge]

so yeah

1. demolish
2. redesign lower on some foundations close to water

after that we can go through some more details 🙂

[harsh thorn]

THATS IT

IM

ING

[THE ENTIRETY OF COAL GENS]

@vapid gorge removed the thing

now i have 0 clue on how to rebuild lmao

[vapid gorge]

ok well put down enough foundations near your source of water to fit the coal gens

[harsh thorn]

oh shit i think i fucked up

im goin to sleep its 2:30 am here

im tired asf

[vapid gorge]

no no you're ok, you'll need to build a couple bio burners next to your coal gens that are only connected to your miners and water extractors

[harsh thorn]

alright thanks lad

[vapid gorge]

and maybe go to sleep and try tomorrow 🙂

[harsh thorn]

dms tmr?

[vapid gorge]

just ping me on here 🙂

[harsh thorn]

right got it

pray i dont forget :)