math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

Are they turned on?

with power

[misty lark]

yes

[vapid gorge]

ok can you take a picture of the length of the pipe?

[misty lark]

which pipe

[pine inlet]

Also try deleting and rebuilding the pipes and junction. Sometimes they glitch

[misty lark]

already did

[pine inlet]

Replace the MK2 pipes with MK1 the 2's have way too much interior volume for this job

[vapid gorge]

that shouldn't cause an issue though

[pine inlet]

You are correct. Just trying to think of how I would have built it

[misty lark]

same issue

[vapid gorge]

a shot of the length of the pipe is still really useful at this point

[misty lark]

how would i take that?

and still, which pipe

[pine inlet]

Do the refineries turn on ever? When you open a refinery menu is the production percentage 0%?

[misty lark]

1 sec, my fuse keeps breaking

they just kinda started taking in oil?

alright lol

when my refineries were off they were taking in oil

now its back to a snails pace

[vapid gorge]

from the oil drill to the machine - stand on top of something tallish

[misty lark]

WAY too far

right side is oil

[vapid gorge]

are you in u8 or u7?

[misty lark]

?

[vapid gorge]

which update are you using?

[misty lark]

early access CL#238433

[vapid gorge]

do you want to direct msg me your save? xD

[misty lark]

how do i send it?

[vapid gorge]

find your save folder and send me a msg in discord with the file

[misty lark]

whats the directory

[vapid gorge]

#faq

[main dirge]

Has anyone figured out a way to sink the output of a crafting chain only when the input is backed up?

[snow dove]

Smart splitter with overflow setting, placed before the storage bin(s)

oh wait only when the input is backed up?

[main dirge]

Yea

[snow dove]

why would the input backup?

[main dirge]

Maximum manifold efficiency

[snow dove]

underclock the miners to match what’s required

And you could just turn of the final machine(s) and go do other stuff for a bit, then when it’s all full turn it back on

though that won’t really work if there’s recycling loops

[main dirge]

There is but it's way down the line, they'll sort themselves out

[snow dove]

could just dump a pipeline segment and hope it works out

maybe 2-3 depending on segment size and system size

[main dirge]

Nah it's my 11x mk2 pipe crude oil factory, takes a few dozen industrial tank flushes to back up - it's set up to back up happily rn though and getting brought in by train

[snow dove]

Why the industrial tanks?

oh trains, got it

[main dirge]

My issue is I want to pull products out halfway through a crafting chain, but not run out of basic resources

[snow dove]

Separate production lines

[wind spade]

don't do that

[main dirge]

Nah they're literally just there for flushing

[wind spade]

just make separate production lines

[main dirge]

Don't need to touch them anymore

[main dirge]

World-spanning base, no resources left :p

[wind spade]

if you have no resources left, then where would you get the resources for [whatever you want to do]?

[main dirge]

Taking them out the production line

[wind spade]

so a product of a production line? that's not a problem, is it?

[main dirge]

Ie, will need storage containers of heavy modular frames for building elsewhere, but I don't want that to stop my modular frame containers from filling first, and the HMFs are needed further down as well

Overthinking on terms of pure efficiency but it's nice to be able to make things work how you want

[teal summit]

hello team, i'm currently building my first steel factory and im producing steel pipes and beams in the same factory. whats a good ratio for production?

[wind spade]

ratio?

just produce what you need

[teal summit]

everything 😢

i need a decent amount of both

[oblique hollow]

there is no good ratio between the 2. just build whatever feels nice

[wind spade]

make as much as you need of both

[oblique hollow]

it also depends on if you have alternate recipes

before you start steal, plan ahead and see if you have any parts that NEED steel parts

[wind spade]

look what pipes and beams are used for (which buildings) and make some amount to support your rate of building those
usually numbers around 30/min are enough, but depends on what you build

[median heath]

But there must be a magic ratio given how often people ask about it 😉

[wind spade]

or... hear me out... there isn't 😮

[median heath]

Unpossible.

[vast bramble]

had to give up and add overflow sink to the plastic line. Everything works perfectly at 100% without any sinks, but at the game start / load it runs out of alclad for a few sec (because content of splitters/mergers is not saved?). That creates a tiny excess of plastic that eventually makes plastic refineries to hiccup a little, hor drops, coke drops, alumina hiccups even more, and eventually everything grinds to a halt

with the sink it spits some plastic into it at the start and then stabilizes

[next pewter]

just dont recirculate the water for the alclad?

or produce a bit more coke and sink that instead?

[vast bramble]

not reusing water means a whole field of additional water extractors and coal generators. as much as I hate having a sink, that feels much worse

[wind spade]

no it doesn't?
it means that instead of pumping water elsewhere, you bring the reused water there

[hybrid star]

quick question, is the planner correct that making turbofuel with the refinery than with the blender? Alternate recipes on

[wind spade]

which planner?

[vast bramble]

the only other thing that uses water there is diluted fuel refineries that make extra hor into fuel and power this whole thing. giving it reused water would create same problem. everything depends on everything

[oblique hollow]

turbofuel in refinery: saves oil
turbofuel in blender: saves sulfur

pick your limit

[wind spade]

well all factories should be able to run at all times anyway, so just sink products

[hybrid star]

satisfactory calculator

[wind spade]

that one just force-uses alts that you select

it doesn't optimise for anything

[hybrid star]

ug, I want to optimise for the most turbofuel possible for fuel generators

then I might have enough to get on with nuclear

[wind spade]

yeah SCIM can't really do that iirc

(and if you want to go nuclear, just skip turbofuel 🙂 )

[hybrid star]

that requires a lot buildings and lot of the lectricity

[small kayak]

do a ramped start up of nuclear, when the first few are running bring the rest online

[grizzled gull]

I am using a "main bus" setup for the first time and I have a 120 belt of iron ingots. I need to split off 90 to use and keep the other 30 on the bus, how would I go about that?

[elfin nebula]

first step to make verything easier is removing the main bus

[grizzled gull]

Ive been experimenting with different setups so I can make what I need easier. are there any other good alternatives

[elfin nebula]

connect stuff directly where it belongs?

[grizzled gull]

Ig i need to experiment more with direct connections

[elfin nebula]

you need to, stuff gets way larger later and a mainbus with a few hundret belts wont work

[grizzled gull]

ok ty for the tip

[elfin nebula]

easierst way to split 120 to 90 and 30 often is to not merge it in th first place

[grizzled gull]

true

I was too stuborn to admit that what I was doing wasnt the worst idea

[elfin nebula]

with these numbers its still possible, one pslitter to make 60 60 and a second one splits the 60 to 30, then merge the 60 and 30

[grizzled gull]

yeh

is annoying tho

[elfin nebula]

you wont use a main bus here.
like, you cant really, so many belts that its impossible to reach the inner ones

they are only possible early in a really small scale

[brittle kayak]

I had a kind of a "main bus" at some point before. It was around a dozen belts stacked on top of each other.

Didn't like it but it worked fine for a while.

[wind spade]

main bus is horrible in satisfactory

connect miner -> factory -> storage directly

[grizzled gull]

ok

[grizzled gull]

thats what im attempting to do rn

[wind spade]

and also, manifolds are a thing 🙂

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |

splits into any amount of any belts

[grizzled gull]

already been using manifolds, they save so much space

[unkempt bobcat]

a splitter line is called a manifold? good to know

[grizzled gull]

ig cuz it looks kinda like an exhaust manifold

[fathom bane]

Plates, Rods, and Wires don't go on the bus. Bus the ingots around and do the intermediate constructors on a different tower level from the final product.

[oblique hollow]

nah, just process the ingots directly to plates and rods and steel. That stuff takes up much less space than the 10000 ingots/min

[wind spade]

Nothing goes onto a bus. Bus goes into Factorio.

[thorn canyon]

Busses aren’t super important in satisfactory due to the fact that you can build 3 dimensionally

[fair glen]

Alrighty. So I'm trying to make 20 modular frames per minute. These are the signs for my math and I wanted to share it to see if I made any mistakes. So please let me know. (Pings are fine)

[oblique hollow]

we dont know the recipe choice tho

[winter panther]

No, we do

The three columns represents the different recipes afaik

The ore is wrong though

480/min

[severe zodiac]

If your goal is exactly 20 modular frames per minute with base recipes the math breaks down like this:

Something went awry in your screw math I think but you're close

[fair glen]

@severe zodiac @winter panther Thank you. I didn't realize I messed up the most essential part

[wind spade]

due to the fact that consumption and production is fixed

[thorn canyon]

Yeah and resources don’t expire/get depleted

[patent dirge]

Does anybody happen to have the screen shot of how to make a 'smart merger'?

nvrmind i found it

[wind spade]

what do you need smart merger for? 🤔

[tropic crest]

does a turbofuel powered fuel generator produce more power then a normal fuel gen or no

[brittle kayak]

Yes and no. You won't be getting more MW out of the facility but the energy contents (read: burn times) vary.

[patent dirge]

to merge two belts into two belts, one full, one with the leftovers. regular mergers don't have any preference when it comes to incoming items, which leads to inefficiencies because of items 'colliding' during the merger process.

[wind spade]

well... why do you need that? 😛
just use the belts with the amounts they have on them

(also this can easily be done with smart splitters if you want, though again, not necessary at all)

[normal gate]

Question. Just trying to make sure my math is right. Using vanilla only, 270 oil/min can support 15 fuel generators, right?

[wind spade]

which recipe?

[normal gate]

just crude --> fuel

no alts

[wind spade]

yeah just asking because there's two non-alt recipes for fuel

[normal gate]

oh for real?

[wind spade]

fuel and residual fuel

[normal gate]

Ah for some reason I thought resdiual was an alt, my bad

[wind spade]

fuel is 60->40, so 270->180, fuel gens need 12

[normal gate]

and if my math is right, 12 fuel per for a total of 180, comes out to 15

[wind spade]

indeed

[normal gate]

thanks greeny

[tall storm]

can i get a really good layout for make aliumium items but times 5

i got the mod that gives u mks of machines

[normal gate]

Like the math, or the actual design?

[tall storm]

design please

[normal gate]

Ah. That I can't help much. Design is not my strong point. I can help you with calculators and figuring out the math/machines/inputs/etc, but as far as making it look pretty...yea not my best part sadly

[median heath]

No, it does not give you more power per gen.
It does give you more gens per amount of fluid though.

[cinder silo]

I'm so not building turbofuel again though, that monster in my 2k+ world will be the last of its kind in my playthroughs.

[median heath]

I build it purely off the 1 node I use for munitions.
Since that sulfur won't be going anywhere else, there is a small turbo plant (Turbo Heavy) to burn off the remaining sulfur.

[cinder silo]

My plan for the northern forest run is to turn the spire in to an engery quarter, each oil well getting its own refinery/dilute setup and generator cluster.

With me not actually using turbo ammo, I will skip its production this time.

[teal summit]

will i ever need enough of one type of resource to require industrial storage containers

right now im using normal storage containers and have never needed more than 2-3 stacks of anything

[cinder silo]

If you're building large constructs, then the industrial cans can feel not enough, depending on your production.

[vapid gorge]

yeah depends how big you're building,how fast you're building and how much pm you're refilling 🙂 if you're not sure having a 2 or 3 containers of everything isn't hard nor does it take up much space

[hybrid star]

This might be a bit rambling because I'm not sure what the issue is. I am making around 900 turbo fuel. I'm doing it in blenders with the alternate heavy oil recipe and the diluted fuel recipe. Its going into approx 96 fuel generators. I have the turbo fuel split into 2x 450 lines and the last generators on both lines aren't getting enough intake. The game has been running for a while and I'm using a manifold distribution so I know they won't fill at the same rate. One of the blenders isn't getting enough heavy oil residue so it pauses every minute or 2 but I remember that being a bug with full 600 pipes. The wiki says its 4.5 leading me to think its 900/4.5 so there could be a lot more generators, like a 100 more. So am I missing something? I don't get why the generators aren't filling. They're in a sort of square tower but I've used plenty of pumps and the other generators are filling fine?

[vapid gorge]

you often need to feed fluids into machines with a looped manifold and pre flooding the system

[hybrid star]

imagine I'm a labrador and try to say that again

[vapid gorge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1142247093528961156/1142273544005357628/image_13.png?width=1140&height=506

Essentially fluid can go both ways so it's possible fluid goes backwards in a regular manifold and can cause stuttering so you never have 100% production of hte fluid in question

looping the end back to the start overcomes this issue by having 2 ways for fluid to flow, and pre flooding a system before turning it on 100% (so running all the machines but having 1 at 50% for example) means there's no gaps in the pipes

Now it's not impossible to make it work w/o a looped manifold, it is a reliable way to do it so I incorporperate it into every design from the start

[hybrid star]

the design I did was very basic. Pipe picks all the outputs and leads it to a series of inputs. The only messy bit I did was 2 pipes that go towards 1 pipe (terrain issues) went into fluid buffers basically because I wanted to see the machines were working before I moved onto the next bit. Maybe its that bit of mess

[inland agate]

any fix?

[vapid gorge]

there's very few places where buffers are needed, and where they aren't needed will do nothing or cause/hide issues.

And it sounds like a reasonable set up otherwise but the loop and flooding are pretty vital

I've seen some systems work w/o them but it's not consistent

[vapid gorge]

I can't recall off the top of my head but I know there is one - try googling it

[inland agate]

Didnt find anything

[vapid gorge]

do you use mods at all? mp? server? sp?

[hybrid star]

fair enough, its easy enough to eliminate those. I just had them there to test the early part of the product journey

[inland agate]

yes

[vapid gorge]

w/o the crash msg could be one of those issues.

And yes to which part?

[inland agate]

I use these

[vapid gorge]

sure but single player? server? multi?
what does the crash msg say?

[inland agate]

single player

[vapid gorge]

looks something like this

[inland agate]

nope

just the msg come and game closed

not this screen

[vapid gorge]

you can do funky stuff and designs with pipes - but I'm coming from a design point of view of having simple, resilient designs that will work.

[vapid gorge]

I guess the basics is - verify files - if that doesn't work update mods, if that doesn't work turn off mods

[inland agate]

is their a fix to play with mods

I tried verifying files one

and it doesnt work

[vapid gorge]

I googled it - def a mod issue. Did you try using u8 or something?

[inland agate]

whats that

[vapid gorge]

the experimental version.

[inland agate]

by the way without mods the game is working

[vapid gorge]

in any case ask the modding discord

[inland agate]

can u give me link?

[vapid gorge]

sent you invite

[hybrid star]

well, getting rid of the buffers and some valves seems to have stopped the turbo fuel production issue, am I right on the calculation that 900 turbo fuel should feed 200 fuel generators?

[elfin nebula]

900/4.5=200

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah, no valves either

[hybrid star]

in this one scenario they actually helped

[vapid gorge]

any system that works will work w/o valves.
Different between causation and correlation

fluids set flow allowed but fluids work off average flow, so if the fluid moving through the valve ever drops below that average the valve won't let it catch up

If it's in a position to be able to deliver, on avg, the amount you need, you don't need a valve

[hybrid star]

I'll delete them, lets see.

but like why are there valves if they are always the worse option

[vapid gorge]

Not clear. There's no current mechanical use for them except for fluid towers which I find dumb and arne't needed

And Fluid Buffers only real mechanical use are for fluid trains really

Honestly they were probably put in with the idea of flow regulators but turns out the systesm they were making didn't really work with flow regulators? shrug

[hybrid star]

the buffers were detrimental long termish to me but short termish they were useful as a check for the early stages to see that the early bits worked. Like it can work for 5 minutes before it gets backed up and nothing funky happened in the mean time

[vapid gorge]

ehhhh. I'd argue pre flooding the system and then kicking it off does the same thing but also gives a more realistic view of a working system

Oh and there is a thing where you can feed waste water by product into fresh water for a system to work but in u7 you want a pump since valves are a bit wonky

though there is a report of valves actually not being wonky in that set up in u8 so maybe real use

[hybrid star]

fun and games with alt clu recipes, I'm back after a while. Looking forward to that problem again

[vapid gorge]

sloppy electrode 😄

[hybrid star]

back in the day a guy had a method that worked if you were just using the one node, just shove all the recycled water into 1 or 2 refineries and clock those to eat it all. Making a composite system was a million times harder

[elfin nebula]

im still surprised that people have problems with alu

[vapid gorge]

hindsight

[vapid gorge]

and yeah you can still do that https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/1144599787115642971/AluminumRatio.png

[elfin nebula]

i mean, that they ever had problems.
even first time i just built it and it worked

[vapid gorge]

shrug people have issues with fluids in general

[hybrid star]

if you are using the basic recipe sure, but the rest of dullards had issues with it

[elfin nebula]

i never used the default one

always doing at least sloppy and pure

[hybrid star]

not even when it was the only one

[vapid gorge]

and not everyone has the same problem solving juggling skills

[elfin nebula]

when i first came to alu it already had alts

[hybrid star]

its been a few years now but before the plague or maybe during in it there was just the default liquid alu recipe. Or that's the way I remember it, there was an alt recipe for the scrap that involved silica that I think is still the same

[elfin nebula]

there is no scrap recipe using silica

[vapid gorge]

Possibly? I jumped in aroudn u4 and I'm almost 100% certain all the alts existed at that point

[vapid gorge]

I'm guessing just mixing up details after years

I'm certainly not going to fault anyone for that sort of thing :d

[elfin nebula]

well, there is no alt using silica in the whole line ^^

[vapid gorge]

But there is al alt that removes silica, and an ingot that changes silica needs.

Thus 'mixing things up'

What I'm saying is silica is part of the overall context of bauxite use - it'd be weird if they said something about adding/removing iron from the process for example since afaik no version or experimental had anything close to that

[tall storm]

Could you dm me the math ill figure out the design. Also if any mods that you think would help I’m cool with getting them.

[normal gate]

what alt recipes are you using?

[tall storm]

I have all of them

So any

[normal gate]

best way is to use this calculator and select the recipes you wanna use

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production

[tall storm]

Woooow that’s a thing. I thought everyone did it the math themselves. Lol

[normal gate]

oh heck naw lol

there is also www.satisfactory-calculator.com but i prefer that one

[vapid gorge]

I find the bigger use for it is changing recipes in larger set ups to better suit different locations for a factor

[normal gate]

so much this

[vapid gorge]

like changing the recipe for circuit boards in a super comp factory? pain in the butt to do by hand

[tall storm]

I’ve only ever used paper and pencil.

That’s crazy

[normal gate]

oh i still have that handy for eveerytime, but this takes the brunt of the work

[tall storm]

Ahhh

[vapid gorge]

and you can save the link for a plan somewhere so you can go back to it really easily. Good for record keeping

[tall storm]

Well thanks man this is going tell me sooo much.

[tall storm]

Nice

Any tips for large scale building?

[vapid gorge]

my recomendation - works best if you force it to choose specific recipes.

For example if you have a plan to make HMF and want to see what it looks like with a different reinforced plate recipe?
Turn off your current RIP recipe and turn on the alt you want. That way it does exactly what you want

[normal gate]

do be afraid to undo/delete and start fresh, or change plans

[vapid gorge]

as in design layout? logistics? aesthetics? location? xD

[tall storm]

All of the above. I have 250 hours but I’m open to learn new stuff.

Also would either of you be down to see what I’ve done in mine at maybe help me fix my mess. If not then that’s cool.

[normal gate]

yea i got time

[tall storm]

Right now?

[normal gate]

sure. how you wanna do it

[tall storm]

Do u have to have the mods I am using?

[normal gate]

depends on how we do it. Like if you wanna send me your save file, i'll need the list to make sure i can see any "flair" items neededd

[tall storm]

You might have to walk me through doing it like that.

[vapid gorge]

It's a biiiiig topic and tons of it is subjective to how you like stuff 😄 I'm sure Lily can go over a lot of it though

[vapid gorge]

My main tip though? is be prepared for your first big factory system to suck in at least 1 way. Accept. Forgive yourself. Learn.

[tall storm]

I see

[normal gate]

1000% that

[vapid gorge]

I'm pretty sure no matter how many hours you get you learn new things, and how you'd do things better next time.

True in every part of the game but probably more so in big systems in one location

my personal example is this beast that did 9k plastic/rubber and 10k alum ingots +some other stuff https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/932761153703149659/1139847014574727178/big_r_2.jpg

[tall storm]

im running into that problem now

[vapid gorge]

It worked. But I liked literally nothing about it. But I learned a lot

[normal gate]

we always critique ourselves in this game. we can be harsh

[vapid gorge]

You gotta be a bit Zen about stuff I feel 🙂

[tall storm]

thats what i want to do in the future

[median heath]

My builds are perfection.

[tall storm]

and i can only play for 2-3 hours before my head hurts

[vapid gorge]

I thought so too! xD but then realised that I wanted to do the exact opposite of this thing

[normal gate]

https://tenor.com/view/keyboard-hyperx-rgb-hyperx-family-hyperx-gaming-gif-17743649

lol i kid

[median heath]

😁

[tall storm]

@normal gate would u like to vc?

[normal gate]

sure, now good for you?

[tall storm]

ye

[normal gate]

gimme just a sec to save my BG3 game

[tall storm]

k

im loading in atm

[vapid gorge]

oh and other tip - plan things out. Space between sections, space for architecture, space for pipes/logistics, space for power lines 😄 sketch in some way and keep track of what numbers are going where

[tall storm]

okie sounds good

[vapid gorge]

spread sheets can be a life saver 🙂

[wind spade]

@quasi zinc see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[quasi zinc]

Ay thanks

i think i might go on a hard drive hunt then

so i can just unlock everything

[fringe fiber]

you cant unlock things where you dont got the base recipe

[thorny cedar]

yea there is a list on the wiki if you google hard drives and you see the tier you need in order to get the rec https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Hard_Drive

everything with water and ore is tied to coal power so if u want them fast go get coal asap and some drives and skip the rest

i dont understand why you can get the alt nuc rod when researched quartz crystals in the mam but so be it 😄

[fringe fiber]

idk as well

should get it fast ngl

[thorny cedar]

but for example the rec for synthetic fabric you only can get if you researched fabric in the mam

[wind spade]

@glossy topaz automated miner allows you to... automate miners 🙂

[whole heron]

I can't remember, was there ever an automated recipe that required miners?

[wind spade]

don't think so

[thorny cedar]

no why?

[whole heron]

It would have made the automated miner recipe have more use, I suppose.

[thorny cedar]

the alt rec is the only way to automate miners tho

[thorny cedar]

split 2.5 in 1.7 and .8 😦

[next pewter]

Awesome world goal:maximise miner production and place all portable miners you can 😈😁

[next pewter]

Split in 27 (3x 3 split in succession) and feed back 4, merge 17 and 8? = uses 13 splitters and 2+4+8 mergers.
Or use 1 splitter and let it autofill?

What Qty? Maybe you can (ab)use beltspeed too.

[wind spade]

manifold

[thorny cedar]

its nuclear

[wind spade]

doesn't matter

[next pewter]

Make 2 machine groups.

[wind spade]

manifolds work everytime

[next pewter]

1,7 and 0,8 output.

You do you. There are easy ways and complex ones, you can pick yiur poison. 😊

[wind spade]

you should consider logistics before you decide on clock speeds and machines

[next pewter]

Shoud? Can, but not required. Just increases the challenge rating 😅😉😁😈

[wind spade]

that... doesn't matter for what I said?

you should do it the other way around

otherwise you run into issues like you have now

well, you didn't, if you have this situation

[next pewter]

Isssues that can be solved are opportinities to learn 😉😊

[wind spade]

manifolds take less space than balancers

[next pewter]

Sure they do.

Either solution works,just depends on your goal.

[winter panther]

I wonder what's the point of getting power shards if I hardly use them for anything but miners at times ...

[next pewter]

Minimising buildings is equally reasonable compared to minimising beltwork/imbalance, imho.

[wind spade]

already answered, build a manifold

[next pewter]

Well, Hayli, for some users their question is asking for a solution for a problem they want to avoid. If you want the nitty gritty, lets dive into it 😊

[cinder silo]

Bah, nothing more annoying that post deletions in the middle of reading.

[wind spade]

also, it's the classic XY problem

[thorny cedar]

sorry no i apologize i was a fool to even ask

[next pewter]

8 and 17 out of 25,then.

True, @wind spade . But where manifolds is the right answer fpr 99% of cases, non manifolds are a fun way too and equally viable if you choose so.

[cinder silo]

I prefer manifolds mostly due to their being compact, gets boring though so sometimes you'll see the odd load balancer where it really wasn't needed (non-radioactive load)

[next pewter]

on topic: 17 /25= (2/5+2/5/5)/25

So can be done w 2 6 splits.

[wind spade]

given that there's multiple ways to do anything in the game, every time a person asks a question regarding something, it is expected they'll get multiple different answers based on people preferences

nowhere do I claim that manifolds are the only solution, I just answered with one option to do

[next pewter]

Here it is abput radioactive,so reasonably supported. Not needed ofc,total overkill, but for the sake of it, why not?
Its a game after all,fun is the goal,not being efficient or reasonable.

[next pewter]

👆
But the OP stated they wanted non manifolds.

[wind spade]

I haven't seem them stating so 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

The one that deleted all the posts while I was reading I take it.

[next pewter]

Yes. And I (and many many others) highly appreciate and value your immense contribution here and on the calculator!

[cinder silo]

Greeny does Tools, Anthor did calculator 😛

[next pewter]

Tools,yes.

Which is... a calculator?😉😊

But maybe the name became a brand?😊

[cinder silo]

I was merely being specific - https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ - https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map

[next pewter]

On Math: iron ore wise, is the normal RIP recepy better or stiched plate+iron wire?

[wind spade]

depends how you define better 🙂

[cinder silo]

Resource or poer efficiency I guess.

I tend to default to stitched & iron wire a lot but never really delved in to its maths.

[next pewter]

Thanks. I've uses d both extensively.

[wind spade]

stitched have better resource efficiency, bolted has better power efficiency

[next pewter]

Much fewer machines so i also typically use that too,but never checked,so i thought id ask.

[cinder silo]

I'd probably lean towards resource efficiency when I can because power is something I often overbuild to a ridiculous degree.

[wind spade]

also iron wire adds more power cost while replacing copper with iron

[cinder silo]

True, often I find myself short on copper (locally) so iron wire helps on that front, eliminating the need to ship copper from further afield, depends on where you build though.

[true junco]

Bolted also has FPS efficiency. Less machines = less CPU/GPU burden.

I do like the idea of ironwire stitched plate because I interpret it as welded plate.

[whole heron]

Or very very strong needles.

[teal summit]

is there a way to set up power poles so they dont break ur zipline

[deft lichen]

ceiling power outlets and power towers don't break them in U8
in U7, ceiling power outlets reconnect if it's straight enough

[oblique hollow]

custom built ceiling pole blueprints

[normal gate]

So from a world resource point, is it better to have more coal gens or fuel gens? I feel like fuel gens, since you can use recipes to stretch it more vice coal

[oblique hollow]

fuel gens have more fuel available

coal is more limited. also, object wise, fuel is a better choice

because it takes half as many generators

[normal gate]

Yea that was my thought as well, just wanted to be sure, thanks!

[versed violet]

Nuclear obv, with some backup mix of others.

[normal gate]

yea but i'm not there lol

[versed violet]

build the backup mix. Keep them for when you reach nuclear. Dont overbuild, you dont need a hundred each.

[normal gate]

Its gonna be a long time before I hit nuclear on this save. Trying to take some things slowly

[willow igloo]

How do you guys decide how much finished product your base should make? I'm stuck in the design process deciding how much I should aim for

[normal gate]

I mean it kind of varies? Like, how much do you want on hand at your central storage, how much will you need down the line for a future build, what you feel like building that day, etc etc

[wind spade]

only consider how much is for storage
future build will build it's own ingredients

[wary tulip]

I design based on the location and resources in that location.

[teal summit]

i had a lotta trouble with this, but i figured that any amount of production in the early game should be sufficient, and if I REALLY need more i can hold out till i get higher tier items and just replace things after

[thorny cedar]

in the end i split the 2.5 in 5 combined 2 of them into 1.0 and split it into 5 aswell combined 4 got 0.8 on this and 1..7 on the rest

[willow igloo]

only reason I ask is that I come from the Factorio world and I like to pick a science per minute goal and build with that in mind, but that seems foreign in this game and I have no idea what to aim for

[deft lichen]

the closest thing here is sink points per minute

[fair glen]

Just began tiers 5-6 and I'm currently making a computer factory with rubber and extra plastic as well to make 100% use of the three oil nodes nearby

[wind spade]

for most items you make just enough to suit your building needs (what in Factorio would be "mall")
other than that, anything else should just go to sink (and overflow from your mall should as well) to make coupons, it's the only "infinite" thing you can keep producing (similar to Factorio's science)

[deft lichen]

there really are no malls because you cannot craft buildings

so only central storage (that's the final destination for building parts)

[deft lichen]

consider using alt recipes if you have any

[fair glen]

don't have any yet. Which stinks. What would you recommend? Something like recycled plastic?

[deft lichen]

the recycled oil loop is a step up in complexity but you get way more parts

it depends what you're going for

[fair glen]

alright

[willow igloo]

on the wiki you can look up all the recipes and an analysis of efficiency of each alternate recipe

some recipes aren't worth messing with, others are wonderful

[deft lichen]

you could use, for example: iron alloy, copper alloy, steamed copper sheet, cast screw, iron wire
not saying that you should, it is up to you if you find them worth it

it gets more complicated with circuit board and computer alts

[wind spade]

(also don't take the analysis too seriously, it's very much biased)
all recipes have their use, there's no "always bad" or "always good" recipe, it's all subjective to the person and their needs

[deft lichen]

we plan on replacing the wiki alt recipe analysis, but it's a lot of work

[willow igloo]

also some alt recipes can be chosen based on personal choice. i completely cut screws out of my factories by choosing alt recipes that don't use screws

[wind spade]

it's obviously your choice, but I personally find that cutting screws just because they are screws is weird

cutting screws was good in U2, but they got buffed since then and now are part of many resource efficient recipes

[cinder silo]

Screws are often cut because people tend not to think to put the screw manufacture on the same floor as productions that actually use screws (same approach recommended for quackwire)

[wind spade]

(and wire)

all those three are best dealt with by using direct input

[cinder silo]

Wire, yeah that one stung, My 600ppm battery building has a wire factory right next door to produce 1800 wire.

Had I thought, the ingots would have been smelted right over the mine and the wire constructors would have been right next to the manufacturers, but hindsight ..

Smelter buildings is why I started experimenting with the slender mine/smelter towers with a footprint of 8m x 16m.

I'll see if I can put the slender tower prototypes in to full use in my NF save, easier now the coal terrace is online.

[prisma kraken]

caterium wire is also wonderful for battery production

[barren elm]

Whenever screws or wires are involved, I just slap a constructor in front of the assembler/manufacturer and call it a day

I like to think the performance benefit of direct insertion outweighs the wasted production (and thus requiring more machines overall), but I've never tested it

[prisma kraken]

i even do that with fused wire & quickwire

i think the only 500 stack items that are worth belting are concrete, copper powder and leaves

[elfin nebula]

i use screws once, because none of my alts use them and i have no situation where they are good. not because i wanted to remove screws, i personally like fast and full belts, looks nice

[prisma kraken]

screws get a lot of undeserved hate, mostly because they're the first high volume part that causes you to actually think about the belt speed problem

you slam into the same problem with wire, quickwire, and to some degree, limestone/silica/concrete

[elfin nebula]

only wire for me

when building quickwire, i already have really fast belts. and concrete or silica never was a problem

[prisma kraken]

it depends on the recipes you're using

but even something basic like making 100 ai limiters, you're going to run into belt capacity issues quickly

screws just get the hate for the problem

[true junco]

Its a timing thing. The demand for screws rises faster than you are unlocking new belts speeds. So people get frustrated with them early on. A lot of alts that avoid screws seam to lead you to worse problems imo.

[winter panther]

I mean, it is a good thing because it does lead the player to being in problematic scenarios where they need to think back on their approach

[elfin nebula]

does it? for me screws remove themself really fast and only get back with copper rotor

[true junco]

You already said you avoid them so no, they dont remove themselves. You remove them.

[elfin nebula]

huh, i said i dont want to avoi them, they just arent optimal for any of our situations

because our plates are better as stitched and frames are steel

[true junco]

I must have misread then.

[elfin nebula]

so not even tools recommend us screws except for copper rotors

personally i like fast full belts

with wires its already fancy

[true junco]

Idk how that happens. Tools always gives me screws unless i remove the recipies for them or needing them from the list.

[elfin nebula]

for what for example?

idk for what screws are needed

only know some reinforced plates, frames, rotors, uh?

[fossil gulch]

I'd really like to help with this. How can I stay in touch with this project?

[deft lichen]

Ah, ask a moderator for the wiki role

@fossil gulch

[queen slate]

In my opinion...
Reinforced plates - screws can be avoided, and both Adhered and Stitched are very good at that.
Rotors - if you don't minmax, you can avoid screws (Steel Rotor). If you minmax - Steel Rod + default screws and rotors.
Frames - same case as with rotors.

[wind spade]

well tools are based on subjective weighted resource optimisation

[wind spade]

why not copper rotor?

[median heath]

Copper Rotor, which uses Screw, which if you're min-maxing is Steel Rod + Base Screw.

[wind spade]

Steel Rod + default screws and rotors.

[median heath]

Oh is the "and rotors" meaning "not Copper Rotor"?

[wind spade]

I assumed that means default screws and default rotors

[median heath]

Yeah then I support your question.

[queen slate]

Sure, why not. It can be combined with Steel Screw because of the ratios, if you need that, although it's a bit less resource-efficient than Steel Rod + base screw.

[wind spade]

yeah, steel screws are less resource efficient... but we're asking about rotors 🙂 why normal rotor over copper rotor? copper rotor is way more resource efficient

especially with the two copper alts

[queen slate]

But judging by what i see in the calc (because rn i'm a bit too lazy to calculate manually), Copper Rotor minmax chain relies on:

1. You willing to put Copper there (some might not want it).
2. Maxing all the previous recipes: ingots, sheets, etc.

[median heath]

Specifically because you put the context as "min-max", which means Copper Rotor is the choice you would make.

[wind spade]

it's still just 8 copper ore -> 10 rotor, that's like free 😄

but yeah if copper is not nearby it may not be applicable for that case

[queen slate]

And also the building amount for non-minmaxers.

[barren elm]

Pretty sure a lot of the copper related alt recipes reduce building counts overall

Yeah 100 rotors per min with defaults is almost 200 buildings, wiht pure -> steamed sheets -> copper rotors, it's like 80

[queen slate]

It also relies on water, both being nearby and requiring extractors.

[barren elm]

You could argue that's an advantage, since water is flat and easy to build on

[median heath]

Every time you add a conditional you take it further away from your original context of min-maxing.

[barren elm]

But that's just down to how you want to plan your factory

[queen slate]

Yeah, eventually.

[teal summit]

is smart plating used for anything other than space elevator? deciding if i need to send it to central storage or not

[wind spade]

never store space elevator parts

sink them or process them

[queen slate]

Space elevator parts only.

[teal summit]

also if i place a blueprint down, is there an easy way to remove the entire blueprint?

or do i have to do it manually

[snow dove]

Only in U8

U8 has blueprint deletion, so you can delete the whole bp in one go

[teal summit]

should i build a smart plating factory from scratch or just stick RIPS and rotors from storage into a few assemblers?

is a smart plating factory worth it in general at any point

[thorny cedar]

if you go for just producing all elevator parts

[barren elm]

Depends on your goals, you do need smart plating in the future, but nothing stops you slapping down a few assemblers in a temp setup to get to the next tier

[thorny cedar]

yea you need it for other elevator parts aswell later

[barren elm]

Personal preference, I would not start any "real" factories until tier 5+

Before that, you end up having to work around the tools you're missing, which isn't fun

[winged sleet]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Smart_Plating

I’m on the same tier you are, I just made enough for the next couple elevator requirements and then repurposed the rotors and plates for other parts like modular frames and motors.

[cinder silo]

I have a nasty habit of using temporary spaghetti factories for space elevator parts.

[thorny cedar]

the math should check out i guess

[viral latch]

😨 what is THAT? mind you I haven't made it past tier 4 in playing, yet.

[wind spade]

a balancer, 99% of times not needed

[viral latch]

I did have to look that up, but the premise seems simple enough.

[wind spade]

much simpler premise is a manifold

[viral latch]

well i don't know anything about cars, so i'm at a disadvantage in this concept lmao

or engineering.

"ooh what's this do?" proceeds to google every thing in the game

[wind spade]

it's not related to cars... well the original term may be, but here it's just a belt with row of machines next to it (and splitters on the belt)

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

[wind spade]

@winter wave see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[elfin nebula]

didnt say something else. we didnt come in a situation where screw are the way to go

[wind spade]

rotors with all recipes

[elfin nebula]

well copper rotors is the single exception

[wind spade]

also depends on recipe choices (and in beta on weights and optimisation)

[snow dove]

what are the weights?

[elfin nebula]

the places where we build and wht we have there always lead to screws not being the best way for everything except rotors

[wind spade]

artificial values given to resources based on their rarity

which are then used to compare resource efficiency

[snow dove]

but what are they like the actual jumbers

[snow dove]

is that always displayed?

[wind spade]

in beta, yes

[thorny cedar]

screws are the same as other 500th stacks yea it stacks high but it needs a lot of belt so i direct feed them in one way or another

[median heath]

Pounds and Kilos. 😉

[true junco]

The term definitely predates cars. The everyday sense of the term came about in the mid 1800s.

[true junco]

Kilos arent a unit of weight.

[true junco]

Isnt it just percent scaled up by a big factor... 10,000 or something like that.

[vague hawk]

how much does a splitter "slow down" a production line ? I gave exactly the right amount of coal to my coal generators and somehow they'd always fluctuate until one of them runs out of coal and it brought all the other ones down with it

[tight umbra]

It doesn't cause any backup. So if your belt that goes into the manifold has the same number of recourses per minute as all coal generators consume, it will work without issue.

Only thing is that if you have a manifold you either need to wait or manually fill up all the generators inventories, until the overflow systems runs at max efficiency.

So, if your fuse breaks when not all generators are running, you might want to consider disconnecting the power plant from the rest of the factory until it can stabalize.

[fringe quartz]

Ye, coal can take a while to stabilise

[vapid gorge]

doesn't sound like it's set up right then, it should get more stable over time

[fringe quartz]

Don’t forget limits on conveyer belts, early on i had to have mine in sets of four so i could feed coal in for each set separately. Plus this means later on i can max them all out with upgrading belts, pipes and power cell things

[wind spade]

It's inverse of percentage scaled to iron=1

[vague hawk]

it did get stable after some time but it also started going down overnight. I definitely didn't make the perfect setup for it but I didn't expect it to go this bad

[vapid gorge]

Honestly if you’re trying for a perfect running set up a very small mistake throws it all out of whack, don’t stress too much. Just go over every step. What machines and miner are clocked at, if there’s any issues with how much a belt can handle

You seem moderately new? This is normal

[vague hawk]

I mean I almost spent 300h in satisfactory but I'm used to making perfect setups using other people's builds and videos so I wasn't ready for that kind of mistake (and i'm a super slow thinker so it didn't occur to me that having this small of an error would cause this bug of a problem)

[vapid gorge]

any small error really will do it 🙂 especially with fluid systems

[next pewter]

Pounds and kilos refer to MASS. Weight is a force, with unit Newton. On earth, a scale measures F=m*g and reports the mass [kg or pound].

[frosty owl]

Meanwhile, I just found out SF+ (with which I'm doing a playthrough with now) uses imprecise machines/recipes that (eg) end up needing more water than advertised

Wasn't easy to troubleshoot, but I'm fairly sure I know when pipes/belts are at least delivering correctly

[thorny cedar]

that sound like a shit mod for me sorry

[frosty owl]

It's pretty great, that's the only bad part I found about it.

[thorny cedar]

but isnt it just if u know the numbers you know or is it rng every machine?

[next pewter]

Its not more than advertised,just some machines having variable usage afaik.

It is a very challenging but therefore also rewarding

[frosty owl]

I worded things correctly: some machines (luckily very few) input more than advertised.
In other words, such machines end up starving if fed exactly as much as "needed" and only run efficiently when overfed.
Eg: 10 biomass heaters, needing 6/min each, ran out of biomass when provided 60/min

I'm fairly confident of this observation, as I spent literal hundreds of hours observing machines' efficiency and never seeing anything like this (vanilla)

Except back when fluid loss was a thing.
But that's the point: it's not a thing anymore :P

[timid pewter]

Is the radio control system alt recipe as good as i think it is if you pair it with the electric diode circuit board?

[timid pewter]

Electrode curcuit board*

[frosty owl]

I don't know how good you think it is, but it does indeed have quite a few good points

[timid pewter]

I think its usable

And i guess by good i mean im thinking of using it over some other possible combos

Just trying to remove as many items from the production line as possible

[queen slate]

Electrode board is usable, but consumes too much oil, unless you need to make circuit boards just out of oil (aka other stuff is too far away). RCS recipe is good if you wanna save on Quartz.

[thorn bane]

electrode circuit boards uses alot of oil
id probably just go for silicon circuti boards since you have quartz for osillators anyway

[next pewter]

Well, if it is 60/min average,but batched, you need to use belts that are faster than that imho? Or indeed it may be the case. I mostly overfeed and add storage in between my machines. Slightly inefficient but less headaches 😉😊

[frosty owl]

If you need 60/min and provide so stably with a MK1 belts, the system should run fine regardless of how uneven the input-taking is during one minute. At most, machines skip a production cycle, end up piling up some input and have enough to finish the cycle when they restart

[wind spade]

Interesting approach, tho I don't see the reason to do so

[brittle kayak]

Also "right-sizing" belts can cause starvation on long manifolds even when, on paper, your input is sufficient (or even over the actual need). Best to just use max level belts everywhere to avoid that.

[next pewter]

I also noticed that, but its hard to prove/explain. Maybe by showing that a split and merge of two belts sometimes stutters and cab lead to two nonfulls?

[wind spade]

it can't iirc

no matter what the manifold looks like, if every segment has sufficient belt for the required throughput, it will stabilise eventually

[frosty owl]

Only sushifolds may have such issues

[wind spade]

(or rather, no matter what your belting looks like)

oh yeah, I'm talking about single item, not mixed belts/sushi

[frosty owl]

Just specifying. They're both manifolds after all ^^

[wind spade]

^

[brittle kayak]

Except not necessarily when you're right-sizing belts. It is possible to end up in a situation where the last machines are not getting enough resources while, simultaneously, the input to the manifold is backing up, being overloaded.

[wind spade]

it's not

[brittle kayak]

Oh yes it is. I have had this happen to me in the past.

[wind spade]

it's 100% something else

e.g. small section of wrong belt in splitter

mathematically and logically it doesn't make sense

[brittle kayak]

Might try to find an earlier save where this happened and record a video.

[frosty owl]

Unless you can provide proof (savefile, video...), I'm also inclined to believe you miss read the situation

[wind spade]

if you're providing X/min to a manifold that needs X/min, it's either filling up or working at 100%. There's no other option

[frosty owl]

(Assuming no belts are choking ie provide less throughput than needed by the system in that point)

[strong axle]

What about when you fill it up manually

That shouldn't cause any problems right?

[wind spade]

doesn't change my statement

starting conditions are only relevant for the time it takes to start working at 100%

[strong axle]

Because I've filled up some manufacturers manually, but the backlog has disappeared eventually to only the minimum for continuous operation

And I don't really know how it happened since there are enough resources being generated

[wind spade]

depending on what manifold it is, that may happen

[strong axle]

How does it happen?

[wind spade]

in normal manifolds, last two machines never fill up

because those don't have any "excess" to send further down the line

[strong axle]

Oh so you're saying if I put a storage container after them, would it help?

[wind spade]

no

it's normal that the last two never fill up

and it'll work at 100% capacity even if they don't

[strong axle]

Is there any way to make sure they will

Because right now it has started ever so slightly eating into efficiency (99% instead of 100)

[wind spade]

oh that meter is unreliable

once all but last two machines fill up, the manifold will work at 100% capacity

[strong axle]

and interestingly enough, some of them do have full stacks on the last 2 ones, while some are stuck at 30/15

[strong axle]

This has been working for probably 30h by now if not more

[wind spade]

is this one of the last two machines?

[strong axle]

Yes

However in other cases, the last 2 machines are full

[wind spade]

then it doesn't matter if it's not full

may be because you prefilled or not used all resources from it

[strong axle]

or somewhat more so, there's some with 60, most with 30, some with 500

[wind spade]

again, it doesn't matter in which state the last two machines are

as long as the other ones are full

[strong axle]

Alright, good to know

And I also just saw that I have a uranium problem so back to troubleshooting it is, lmao

[brittle kayak]

Bah, it's practically impossible to try and find the right save where I had this starving-and-backing-up-simultaneously-despite-sufficient-resources-and-belt-capacity-on-paper manifold thingy. Maybe easier if I just try and reproduce it. Just wish I remembered the exact conditions i.e. which item I was making, and how many machines there were.

I seem to remember 12 Constructors but that might be wrong.

However, I suspect the issue is something vaguely similar to the splitter issue I had earlier where one machine was not getting enough resources despite input, and belt capacities, being sufficient - on paper.

[vagrant rivet]

raf to floor hole works, but not floor to raf - kinda funny....

[brittle kayak]

Issue: #math-and-meta message
Reason: #math-and-meta message

[vapid gorge]

there's a common floor hole bug, might want to avoid using them

[frosty owl]

Yeah, pretty much. And that's the reason why I say smart/programmable splitters should have bigger buffers to be used without such nuances in load-balancing.

Another example scenario: merging ingots from Pure Iron refineries and feeding those to a series of 120/min outputs (sink at the end, all MK5 except "side belts"). The first few ones might hold up, but the last one(s) are likely to have gaps on their input MK2 belts whenever there are big enough gaps between the items on the main belt (Pure Iron refineries output in batches of 12!)

For me, the Iron was also mixing with other items too, so the issue was even more apparent (using smart splitters, other items can fill the overflow-inventory of splitters leading to less "useful" buffering to keep the 120/min outputs steady)

[snow dove]

A fair few people clip through the floor holes, same look, no weird floor hole bug

[frosty owl]

And that's why the paradise isn't the only thing existing after death

[timid pewter]

it saves items for main production lines

[wind spade]

what "main production lines"? 🤔

[timid pewter]

this system is just to supply a storage room

[timid pewter]

like nuclear fuel rods or elevator parts

[wind spade]

well there's only 32 items worth storing, so it doesn't matter if you get rid of them or not

because the list doesn't change

[timid pewter]

i suppose

but this is also my first time getting to tier 7-8

[river pagoda]

What are those 32 items? Rn I have like 7 items I use storage for atm.

[median heath]

Non-consumable items worth storing:

Plate, RIP, Beam, EIB
Pipe, Rod, ECR
CSheet, ASheet, Plastic, Rubber
Frame, HMF, FMF
Wire, QW, Cable
Crystal, Osc
CB, HSC, AIL
Rotor, Motor, Turbo
Comp, RCU, Super
Casing, Cooling
Concrete, Silica

32 in total.

[thorny cedar]

and i still miss utility items 😦

[teal summit]

stator factory necessary or can i just use stuff from central storage?

[wind spade]

neither

nothing needs stators

[teal summit]

space elevator :c

[wind spade]

doesn't

[teal summit]

i mean for space elevator components

[queen slate]

You don't need to carry stators if you have motors in your inventory.

[wind spade]

sure, they need stators... but how is that relevant to storage?

no reason to store stators

[teal summit]

rather will i need a lotta stators, or can i grab stuff from storage, stick em in assemblers and be fine

[wind spade]

if you need stators for some further component, you'll build them in that factory

[teal summit]

fair enough

ty

[queen slate]

If you plan to make a limited amount of space elevator parts, you can make a good number of stators and then store them. Otherwise build constant-running stator production for further components and /or sinking the unused excess.

[wind spade]

don't do either.

wait until you know how much you want to produce and make them at that point

otherwise you'll have too much or too little

[queen slate]

Too much is not a problem because of awesome sink (if there is enough power).

[wind spade]

too much is a problem because wasted time to make something you don't need

[elfin nebula]

thats my personal answer, ask yourself

[teal summit]

holy

450 input for what

[elfin nebula]

auto wires

[elfin nebula]

power storage

[queen slate]

2 other ones are for motors and control rods?

[elfin nebula]

control rods and turbomotors, yes

[wind spade]

meh, usually it's better to build more power than power storages

it's also why Sev removed it from list of items needed to store

[elfin nebula]

sure, doesnt mean they dont exist

also really cheap and only built once

so wouldnt also store stators for them

[wind spade]

it's a list of "things needed to store"
not list of "things useful for building"

(otherwise screws would be there as well)

[elfin nebula]

i only corrected the nothing needs stators, because thats wrong.
never corrected that they arent useful to store

thats different

[wind spade]

nothing useful needs stators then 😛

[elfin nebula]

yeah. or only power storage would need stators and for them its not worth storing

[flint hare]

I was trying to understand the logic of pumps, and I saw three designs in the coal generator. It confused me that two water sources are connected to the same point and third water source is connected to end. The question is that is it necessary? I just want to be sure Is the math in the picture I drew correct and I understood correctly?

[wind spade]

point is that if you connect all three to one end, then you'll need 360 to be moved through one pipe

[elfin nebula]

im sure there is an explanation next to it, why its necessary

[cinder silo]

Not sure I'd want to hand build the stators for the stupidly oversize power store I built, that would epic suck, so I had a trickle overflow of them to storage.

[swift robin]

you need to do the math for pipe throughput and then you would understand the water inputs are arranged that way to avoid overfilling pipes

[elfin nebula]

well yeah, thats why i would mention them and say its not worth storing usually.
there are always niche cases where you want to stockpile them when planning large storage build

[wind spade]

also, pumps are just "move fluid up", they provide headlift, not much logic to be understood there

[cinder silo]

Even then the stores were a trickle on purpose, like 1.5ppm because by the time I used them I had tons and not much effort.

[deft lichen]

A single pipeline can transport only 300 m3/min, but the entire setup uses 360 m3/min

Note that the Fandom wiki is outdated if you took the images from there ( https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/File:Coal_Generator_Schematic.png )

[cinder silo]

The fact that the 8:3's use the mk1 pipes is the whole reason behind their demonstrated design, it gets around the 300 limit by being connected to the coal burners in two ways.

[flint hare]

Got it thanks. That game makes me kind of obsession, I'm trying to understand every number behind of it 😄

[elfin nebula]

im still fan of the 5:2 setup because its way easier with the nodes and looks better

[deft lichen]

5:2?

I can understand the 2:1 setup but what's that about

[elfin nebula]

4x5:2 is a 20:8 half maxing a single normal node and is symmetrical
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/932761153703149659/1131994533484318820/image.png

[deft lichen]

Strange

[elfin nebula]

the 8 generator gets to no multiple that fits to a maxed node

[deft lichen]

I like the usual 8:3 repeated in a row

[elfin nebula]

at least not in a way that gets that small

[cinder silo]

The downside of 5:2 is the water extractors will keep backing up, so less than perfect power gradiant.

[wind spade]

fits to two nodes 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

you underclock them

so uses less power than the 8:3

[deft lichen]

If you care about power just use 2:1

A maxed normal would be 8:3 + 8:3 + 2:1 + 2:1

[elfin nebula]

i care about node to space efficiency.
600 / 2 = 300
and 300 / 15 = 20
so you get 20 generators

[wind spade]

or 10x2:1

[deft lichen]

Well I'm not going to convince you which is better, use what you want lul

[elfin nebula]

there is only place for 8 water extractors

its just that the 8:3 isnt necessarily better than anything else but gets praised as it was

its only the best when you want to not uunderclock water. but its not space efficient and doesnt fit to nodes

so it optimizes for one thing, just like other setups

not worse or better than them

[wind spade]

it's easiest when you don't want to fiddle with clocks

which most new players don't

[elfin nebula]

well, learning clocks early is good

[wind spade]

which is why it's put everywhere as an example

there's tons of places where the game teaches you to do clocks, coal is just a bit earlier 🤷‍♂️

[elfin nebula]

yeah, the other places are already more complicated, coal is a nice place to learn it

because its really simple

[deft lichen]

Coal power already teaches a lot on its own, better not keep it too complicated

[wind spade]

^

[deft lichen]

I feel like us who started playing before update 3 don't realize that the game is a bit harder to learn now

[wind spade]

I haven't started yet

[vapid gorge]

was u4 pipes? I started sometime after I think

[deft lichen]

U3

U4 rebalanced T7 and added T8

U2 coal generators were primed by mining a piece of coal and feeding one generator

[wind spade]

or hooking miner to biomass

[deft lichen]

Also the ratios were suuuper bad

120 coal was like 11.11 generators or whatnot

To this day I don't understand why they were so weird

[wind spade]

10.8

11.1 is coal per gen

tho for 300/min it's nice 27 gens 😛

(and yeah, https://satisfactory.greeny.dev/power is still working, otherwise I wouldn't know 😄 )

[deft lichen]

Well the manifold tool still works

[elfin nebula]

i started when water was added

[tropic crest]

Should a 20,000MW turbo fuel be enough for pre nuclear

[winter panther]

If it suits your needs, then yes

People usually choose either turbofuel or nuclear though

[elfin nebula]

i do both because both is fun

[winter wave]

you do seem like the kind of person to do that lol

[barren elm]

There's no choice regarding nuclear vs turbofuel, nuclear is so much better that there's no discussion to be had

The only actual conversation to be had is "can I be bothered to set nuclear up", because I can't blame anyone for not wanting to

[river pagoda]

Agreed

[vapid gorge]

That’s sounds like a way turbo fuel is better

It’s almost as if people have different goals and styles where there isn’t much in the game that is always the optimal choice

[static pike]

Hi there... I have three aluminium refineries which output 120m of water each. they feed two alumina refineries which need 180m water each. When they actually run, they all run at 100% but sometimes I notice all the water in the pipes is gone and have to inject water to keep them working. There should be no way the water can escape from a closed loop, right?

It seem to happen when I load my game. I notice they are stopped and have to inject extra water into the loop using a valve. But if I keep the valve switched on, the whole system floods and backs up.

[wind spade]

using a valve can only cause issues

remove valves

[static pike]

@wind spade then my input pipe from the pump will run full speed and flood the system... If I disconnect the water, the game runs until I next reload then I have to inject water again.

[wind spade]

problem is that valves don't really work reliably

[static pike]

I have removed the valve before... no difference in this case.

I used to manually reconnect the pipe each time.

But the water flows in so quickly that it's hard to measure

Imagine a letter P

[wind spade]

you have several options:

• use a VIP junction from pipeline manual (see #math-and-meta pins)
• separate fresh and recycled water
• put recycled water into other recipes (e.g. pure recipes, wet concrete, coal gens, etc.)

anything else is usually very much unreliable

[static pike]

Thanks... I see you can't create recycle loops.

[wind spade]

you can, but not in the way you want

with VIP junction (first solution I posted), you can make them

[static pike]

which is the first solution you presented? sorry I cant seem to find it.

[wind spade]

find the pipeline manual

it's in pins in this channel

in it, there's a VIP junction, which is basically a priority merger

(basically, as pipes are bidirectional, so you can't really think of them as belts, but in essence it works like that)

[static pike]

@wind spade Thanks for the info....

[oblique hollow]

Closed loops have no issues as long as you dont introduce additional water. If you have vanishing water, consider verifying your game files. Because that is not at all normal or common

[static pike]

@oblique hollow thank you I am running experimental... I will check.

[queen slate]

Also if you have too much extra water and limestone deposit nearby, Wet Concrete + sink can help.

[thorn bane]

isnt vanishing water good? xD

[thorn bane]

but where does the water go???????

[runic portal]

PPPPPPP

[patent dirge]

is the issue where the MK 2 pipes don't actually carry the full 600 still an issue? (U7)

[fair glen]

Is this a good recipe balance for 10 hmfs per minute. I'm only in tiers 5 & 6 so no mk 5 conveyors or mk3 miners

[median heath]

Good is a point of view, Anakin.

[fair glen]

This is where I'm planning to build in the dune desert. I'll take the water from the pond under it

[patent dirge]

for regular modular frames I find doing bolted frames to be good, especially when used with steel screws (pro-tip throw the screw constructor immediately in front of the modular frame assembler)

[elfin nebula]

heavy encased frames

[barren elm]

Big fan of steeled frames myself, really nice ratios, low building counts, super low iron requirements

[median heath]

Bolted Frame ftw.

Or base recipe using Steel Rod.

[normal gate]

from the wiki page on setting up fuel power

"process the polymer resin", they are saying sink it/use it for something outside this build, correct?

[oblique hollow]

Do whetever you want with it basically

[normal gate]

Thanks, just wanted to make sure

[tranquil mirage]

Hey there, I'm struggling to figure something out right now... if my input is 30 items/min, how can I split it into 18/12 items per min? I hope this is the right place to ask 🙂

[thorny cedar]

your machines consume 18 and 12 items per minute?

[tranquil mirage]

well, 20 and 12 if I leave everything at 100% clock speed but that leaves an uneven 32 rods/min needed

[thorny cedar]

just split feed and the 12 item per minute side will fill up and the remaining goes over to the 18 side

[tranquil mirage]

Ah, got so caught up trying to split everything perfectly I forgot about this method. That'll work, thanks!

[thorny cedar]

otherwise its a 3 to 2 split

[frosty owl]

Manifold: let machines fill up so they take as much as needed when the belts back up behind them
Load balance: split the input in 3/5 and 2/5. A 1-to-5 split is the same as a 1-to-6 but with one output merged back before the first split.

[tranquil mirage]

Ooohhh I see. I'll try the load balance method, this helps a lot, thanks

[thorny cedar]

or you could split it into 12 and 18 with smth like this

[tranquil mirage]

That is certainly a lot more compact than what I just did lol

[thorny cedar]

i do it sometimes but most of the time i just dont and just overflow

[tranquil mirage]

Same here, I'm in too deep on this factory though - it will be perfect (finger's crossed and all that)

[frosty owl]

A perfect factory is accompanied by a perfectly flat power draw

[tranquil mirage]

I will have to keep an eye out for that haha

[frosty owl]

I'm jesting a bit, but the theory does say so.
Though some things ALWAYS take variable power, like vehicles and SINKS not running constantly, practically always requiring at least 2 different power grids to have one completely flat (eg: vehicles/sinks grid and factory grid)

[thorny cedar]

and all the particle accelerators

[frosty owl]

I was trying to keep it early-game-spoiler-friendly

[thorny cedar]

na but the idea itself and u could try to make the scnd line as "flat" as possible with power storage

[tranquil mirage]

Ran into another calculation that beat me for keeping everything fully load balanced - 22.5 split into 10/12.5. Manifold will have to do for the last little bit lol

[thorny cedar]

if u want to split this you could do it...

[tranquil mirage]

Yeah, well I realized 22.5/10 = 2.25 which makes me think it's totally doable, but my brain is too fried to figure it out right now

[wind spade]

just use manifolds, simple and no need to calculate anything 😄

[tranquil mirage]

Yeah I may just rely a lot more on manifolds moving forward haha

[thorny cedar]

yea no my thinking is 10 is 1/6 of a mk1 belt and the rest "overflows" 😄 and thats basically a manifold u just reduce the one belt to 10 arteficial with splitters

[frosty owl]

To see how to load balance something (if none of the outputs coincide with belt speeds) you can try checking the proportions involved.
Eg: 10 / 22.5 = 2/4.5 = 4/9
So if you make a 1-9 splitter and merge the outputs accordingly, you can get the numbers you want via balancer

Eg: 22.5/9 = 2.5 | 2.5x4 = 10

[tranquil mirage]

I see what you mean - good way to think about it. If I really decide to do load balanced anything in the future I will keep it in mind! But honestly I'm also realizing manifold is probably the way to go for 9/10 cases. This building I'm constructing is turning out way too massive to hide all the conveyor spaghetti I've built lol

[frosty owl]

Efficiency-wise, they can reach the same results, just in different amounts of time

[tranquil mirage]

Yep, makes sense. Thanks very much for all the info and clarification. Helps a lot for a noobie like me 🙏

[main shuttle]

does covering up conveyor belts improve frame rate?

[frosty owl]

Minor advantage for the GPU. Most seem to think it's not worth the hassle.

[junior slate]

possibly? maybe? probably not enough to be worth the effort

[river night]

conveyor rendering is quite optimized, its all smart fakery that looks nice but doesnt cost much

[teal summit]

what item is abbreviated "CB"

[deft lichen]

circuit board

oh it was missing from the acronyms table

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Acronyms

[teal summit]

ya i checked that first and didnt see it

[deft lichen]

added now

[teal summit]

thanks!

[teal summit]

are ai limiters worth storing, or can i just make out of quickwire whenever needed

[deft lichen]

decide based on how many of these do you build

you can have just 1/min going to storage and it will pile up eventually

[median heath]

are ai limiters worth storing

Yes.

[woeful knoll]

anyone available for some tutoring on how the maths around the factory works shiesh struggling find most of the times the machines not getting enough of what it needs to make or need plz let me know when ur available maybe we can end up being satis friends ^_^

[median heath]

It's all basic arithmetic, just applied over and over throughout the chain.

Game doesn't even breach into Algebra tbh.

To walk you through it:
Pick an item that you're trying to make.

[woeful knoll]

coal generators

[median heath]

That's a building, not an item. But ok.

How many are you trying to supply?

[woeful knoll]

what program can i use to show me the needs of the ammount of coal gens and stuff like that

[median heath]

You look at their UI in-game

And learn that regardless of fuel type, they need 45 water/min
And for Coal specifically they need 15 Coal/min

[woeful knoll]

i got 4 pure coal nodes to work with how many gens u think i could use on those

[median heath]

That questions is far too vague.

Highest Miner Mk?
Highest Belt Mk?

Are you overclocking the Miners?

[woeful knoll]

can i add u as a friend ? will check and get back to u on those

[median heath]

You don't need to friend me.
Check and just type it back in here. I will be around.

[woeful knoll]

ok thanks alot bro appreciate it

[woeful knoll]

got it to work thanx bro

[slow rapids]

I'm aware there are tons of these diagrams around the web, but I just wanted to share two basic production line diagrams that I drew up for my own reference. Nothing fancy, but it assumes that 'efficiency' is created when the total output of a miner (at 120) is used in line with an arrangement of constructors that compliments the ratios from the parent raw material (Sorry for all the prepositions...).

I imagine it could be useful for an intermediate player - like myself - that wants to really nail down a means of creating these basic resources early on to focus on progressing to mid-game at a quicker pace. Ya know, because efficiency.

I think the power consumption for the copper line and iron line is 51MW and 55MW, respectively.

[latent meteor]

I'm currently just a few hours in and trying to figure out ratios and all that for the basics of the first tiers. This is super helpful and gives me a much clearer idea how to configure my initial factory

[river pagoda]

Yeah I use the website app and arrange things in a similar format myself. Yours is definitely easier to follow tho.

[dense epoch]

what should I pick?

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message

[wind marten]

The Pure Iron Ingot

[queen slate]

I'd take 1st.

[fierce ruin]

@median heath whats a sushi manifold?

[long light]

Agreed 💯

[fierce ruin]

The last one isn’t renewable so no and the middle one needs copper which is rarer than iron.

[earnest patio]

This looks great! Ive more or less figured this out myself, but my newest self-task is looking into applying verticality so I can save more horizontal space

this is more of a case-by-case thing bc the biome i spawned in is really hilly, and was hard to find large flat regions around ore deposits

but these diagrams are super useful and way cleaner than what I had drawn up, thanks!

[median heath]

Sushi = mixed-item belt

[dense epoch]

Yeah 1 seems like the best bet

[wind spade]

@gritty comet see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[thorny cedar]

do you sushi on itemrate or just smart split?

[median heath]

I don't understand the question.

[thorny cedar]

there is a form of sushi the machine needs 15 quickwire and 1 whatever so every 16 item is a whatever

[median heath]

That is balancer sushi.

Usually single-input sushi.

[thorny cedar]

i mean yea sushi in order

and yes

[median heath]

Manifold sushi is 1 smart per item per input.

[thorny cedar]

and u have a mixed mixed belt

so if u have 150+190+300+18+20 different items you put them all on one belt all the machines with the diff rec in a row?

is this even less than 780

i did not math

yes it is

[median heath]

Basically.

[thorny cedar]

you sink the rest or is there a way to recycle efficient?

or u just balance the machines

and or the input

[median heath]

What "rest"?

[thorny cedar]

yea if u balance there is no rest

[median heath]

If I have 150+190+300+18+20 on a belt, it is because that is exactly how much that system needs.

[thorny cedar]

sushi belt in dsp is literaly a belt cruising in a circle so satisifactory but wrong game :c

i would like it in satisfactory a belt just doing circles items that are needed gets on there with merger magic

in the right place

[slow rapids]

It would be cool to be able to fit the production line into a blueprint so you plop it down when starting in a new biome. That's always a limiting factor for me in the midgame, expanding out into other biomes and setting up a flexible foundation to build up later.

[earnest patio]

Yeah exactly!

[river pagoda]

How exactly would I get overflow items to go to the sink once a storage container is full?

[thorny cedar]

with a smart splitter researched in the mam

[river pagoda]

Dang

[vapid gorge]

wdym?

[undone cliff]

Can I load balance 261 into 120 and 141 with a splitter that forks into a Mark 2 conveyor and a mark 3 conveyor?

[snow dove]

yes

[undone cliff]

thank you! I wasnt sure

[earnest patio]

hey so I just realized that im pretty sure the two copper wire constructors on the lefthand side can be merged and sent to 1 cable constructor to save some space if desired

[normal gate]

So with Turo Fuel alt recipes, you can get like 70 some odd Fuel Gens out of 300 oil or something like that. My question is, with 300m/sec Turbo Fuel being produced for all those Fuel Gens, and with the way pipes work, would one giant like of 70 in a row work with the dynamics, or would there need to be multiple shorter branching lines for the pipe(s) to be happy?

[broken quest]

you would be relying on overflow but yes eventually that would balance and stabilize

as long as you're producing enough for all of them

[vapid gorge]

In my experiences branches are more wonky, I'd just do 1 long snakey boy. This is doubly true if there's any verticality differences in the manifold

like a branch of hte manifold goes to another floor

if you have another floor better to just merge a different groups of fluid producers for an independent manifold

[normal gate]

Gotcha thanks @vapid gorge and @broken quest (and omg i love that name)

[broken quest]

😄

Happy to help haha

and thank you 😊

[vapid gorge]

And it's not that you can't do what you suggested - my advice is based on reliability. Not having ot go back and rejig the whole thing

[normal gate]

yea very much want a set it and forget it thing

when my power line is ------------------, i'm mega happy

won't even use gysers for that reason

[vapid gorge]

should have been more specific - reliability that it'll work first time. If you do branches and get it going it should just keep going - but you'll probalby need to do a lot more tweaking at the start

[broken quest]

If you coordinate them frame perfectly it can work

geysers hurt

[vapid gorge]

if you send fluid from point A to point B with no branches or merging? it should work first time around. If it doesn't there's a small math or build error

[broken quest]

oh and fun thing with one long line:
new generator? just add one tube

and up the inbound by the usage

easy as that
conveyor math tickles my brain when I get all the splits working at 100% but god is it painful to work on lol

[normal gate]

I over build. I prefer a backed up line cuz anxiety LOL

[main shuttle]

have they ever discussed using raw leaves & wood for anything besides converting it into biomass?

[earnest patio]

Hey i might be really dumb, but is there any way to fit 4 coal generators in a blueprint?

Im pretty sure there isnt but thought Id ask here

[brittle kayak]

In Vanilla, not really. Mods allow for larger blueprints to be made but no personal experience with any of those, plus future updates might break those.

[elfin nebula]

its not even a question, u8 broke all mods and next update will most likely again, since we again do an engine jump

[vapid gorge]

for what?

[main shuttle]

idk, a new tier/list of mats

[median heath]

Yeah, no.
Liquid BF being the best all-around jetpack fuel is the most you're getting.

[main shuttle]

true

tho i was thinking of some kind of wood based architecture or something

[median heath]

Valheim.

[main shuttle]

basically 🤣

or maybe have biomass be a requirement for a wood look on walls & foundations

[vapid gorge]

not very thematic

[main shuttle]

we tried making reentry heat shields out of cork, i think it could fit

might explain all the previous landing failures 🤣

[main shuttle]

ok i've read 2 different things on the wiki, one says that a single full pipe can support 33 fuel gens running turbo, another says 53

[wind spade]

fuel gen needs 4.5/min

you can calculate how much one pipe can support 🙂

[deft lichen]

Could you link them please?

[main shuttle]

oh jeez brain fart. i'm setting it up in a way that isn't directly listed on the wiki, so i'm kinda going by charts & estimates. midnight brain not doing me any favors

[median heath]

Neither of those numbers is correct.

300/4.5 = 66.66666666666

Single mk1 feeds 66 and 2/3 generators.

[main shuttle]

got a pure pipe going to 8 refineries for heavy oil, combined with compact coal in 8 more refineries for turbo

i'm in the mushroom crater, with access to 4 full oil pipelines, & i'm trying to figure out how much coal & sulfur i'd need to fully exploit all that

[deft lichen]

Put it in SFTools

[main shuttle]

gonna have to spend some time screwing around with it because right now it apparently doesn't like me

[wind spade]

wdym?

[main shuttle]

never used it before & i'm clearly using it wrong

[deft lichen]

Make a new tab, set turbofuel from items/min to maximize, then go to the items,input tab and change crude oil to what you have

[main shuttle]

oh nice 🙂 thanks

[wind spade]

or even better - set items/min and set it to what you want to produce

[main shuttle]

in this case it'll be easier to reroute a bit more coal & sulfur to max out those oil pipelines

looks like if i do diluted fuel there i'll have way more power than i know what to do with

[wind spade]

yeah, diluted fuel is usually more than enough to get you to nuclear

and doing turbofuel is not very useful in that regard

[elfin nebula]

though tubofuel can replace nuclear

[main shuttle]

good lord i just looked at the requirements 🤣

474 fuel gens, & that's if i OC all of them

[elfin nebula]

im at 900 no oc

[main shuttle]

actually kinda glad i'm moving base & setting up primary manufacturing somewhere else, this power facility is going to have to be the biggest thing i've ever built by a long ways

[elfin nebula]

i have it on the northern ocean and its way smaller than expected

[median heath]

@main shuttle put it UNDER the ocean 😁

[main shuttle]

if only 🤣

[median heath]

Spire Coast holds my largest underwater build. Where I took all of the oil and did a Diluted Fuel plant.
The only things above water on location were the Water Extractors.

[elfin nebula]

undee wont work because water.
you mean completely below the surface?

[median heath]

Yes.

Only thing above is Extractors because they float.

So everything else is on the ocean floor.
Tons of space up there so easily done once you get used to aiming for building underwater.

[gritty comet]

thank you

[main shuttle]

well i guess this is my next big project 🤣 i was kinda hoping to get all the pure nodes headed to one location, but this is definitely more important

[frosty owl]

There's a Reddit post about applying this concept. I can try to look it up, if interested

[dense epoch]

I'm debating between solid steel or iron wire

I'm JUST doing a foundry rn It could be very useful

whats your opinion?

[wind spade]

see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[dense epoch]

Bro I know, I just wanted your opinion 💀

[wind spade]

that's my opinion

[dense epoch]

Ur right tho

[wind spade]

basically, there's no right answer, pick what you want because usefulness of a recipe depends on where you use it and how

[thorny cedar]

dont bother i know the concept i can come up with the math if applicable idk i will see

[winter panther]

Iron wire is pretty neat

But since solid steel is an actual need atm, I don't see why not go for that instead

[river pagoda]

That’s a lot of fuel gens. Most coal generators I’ve ever had was like 16 lol

[main shuttle]

yea, gotta convert 40 coal gens running compacted coal out of there without tripping the entire grid during the upgrade

[river pagoda]

Oooof. Yeah that’s the most PITA part for sure.

[elfin nebula]

solid steel amazing and should always be used over default.
iron wire very good situative.
caterium wire mostly useless in comparison

[radiant leaf]

I'm using that recipe myself. It was a god send early game and even now

[magic island]

solid steel is also awesome for the transition from regular iron, because you can just take your existing iron ingot setup and add coal to convert the ingots

[wind spade]

that means you have ingots lying around, which you usually don't

[magic island]

depends on the factory layout. if you have a bunch of iron smelters already where you split the product out to different lines, when you shift to steel products you can keep that smeltery intact

[wind spade]

why would I have that tho

the smelters make exactly as much ingots as I need

so there's no extra ever

[snow dove]

extra product means inefficiency

[magic island]

suppose you're tearing down some of the secondary production (ie, to account for better recipes). this way you can still conveniently repurpose the primary ingot production isntead of tearing it down too

[wind spade]

I take alt recipes before building production
and I don't tear down, I build new

no reason to tear down, it's wasted time that could be used building more production

[magic island]

playstyle choices, then. ie, I don't generally keep my vanilla iron rod+screw constructors around once I have steel recipes instead. but I can take their ingot supply and upgrade it

[wind spade]

I don't build vanilla rod + screw 🤷‍♂️ stitched plates ftw

[magic island]

it's an example. I'm just saying not every alt is usable from the start due to game progression, so teardowns are not unreasonable once your preferred recipes become usable

[wind spade]

@tranquil tartan see #math-and-meta message for alt recipe choices

[round sparrow]

i have a belt thats has 270 but i need 180 on that beld and it come from the train station how can i do that?

[wind spade]

manifold

if I understand you correctly tho - you want to split the belt into 180 and 90?

[round sparrow]

yea?

[wind spade]

then yeah, just do one splitter and it'll balance itself
or merge two outputs of the splitter to make it 2:3 split

but usually manifold is enough for everything xD

[broken quest]

split 3 ways and then merge 2

[rigid turtle]

both solid steel and iron wire are super super useful

if you're building small subfactories around the map, iron wire become even more useful because you aren't restricted to having copper and iron near each other

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i'd choose solid steel over any other recipe

but iron wire is sorta super-good too

s-tier vs a-tier recipes 😛

[gray solstice]

Hey guys, still thinking what is better… using belts or using trains 😂 i like trains but i need efficiency and i am afraid of time consumption of loading and unloading in train station

[wind spade]

there's no better or worse, each has different advantages and disadvantages and it depends on a situation, which would be better (and on your preferences)

loading and unloading time is pretty short and as long as you use buffers, the throughput will be fine too (assuming you don't go over max throughput)

[river night]

trains are also easily scalable, if throughput is lacking just add a new car and a new freight terminal, done in a short time, pulling a new belt over a distance takes a while

[junior slate]

belts are best over shorter distances, otherwise give trains a try

[gray solstice]

How far do you use belts and when you start thinking about trains? Above 500m or above 1000meters?

[junior slate]

good metric for me is "could I be arsed to walk here?"
if yes, belts
if no, trains

[gray solstice]

Okay thank you 🙂

[median heath]

As greeny said, there is no better/worse
They are different and it comes down to what you care about.

Also not considering trucks hurts my soul because they are a great option.

[gray solstice]

@median heath are using trucks for midrange?

[median heath]

I use trucks for many things given "midrange" isn't a standardized word.