#math-and-meta

1 messages Β· Page 80 of 1

lone cliff
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how did I mess it up?

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does it have to go into a T pipe to work, instead of a bend like I have?

median heath
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Show me on your image where you have THIS specific configuration?

image.png
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The bend is doing literally nothing in your image.

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Because where it connects is level with everything else.

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You need to specifically have the non-priority pipe being above the priority one.

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In the lateral sense.

lone cliff
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that's why the long pipe goes up higher than the ones from the machines

median heath
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You could make it a mile high and the effect would be the same.

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Bend pipes like that are used in VOPs, and what you're trying to build is a VIP.

lone cliff
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I added a T pipe, so this is what you mean?

median heath
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Zoom out

lone cliff
median heath
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... How would that be any different than if you didn't have the junction there?

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    |
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Fuck off formating...

lone cliff
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not sure, you said it had to have a different connection, and the only difference I see is that I didn't have a T pipe on top of another T pipe, I just had the one T pipe before

median heath
lone cliff
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I'm guessing the T pipe is where the magic happens

median heath
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See the difference between what you need (first) and what you have (second)

image.png
lone cliff
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I assumed the input pipe needed to be higher than the other input pipe, but based on our conversation, it sounds like there has to be one T pipe on top of another T pipe, and the relative height of the incoming lines doesn't matter.

median heath
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Non-priority pipe needs to be above the priority one in the lateral sense, like I said.

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LATERAL sense.

lone cliff
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how do you be above laterally?

median heath
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First paint image...

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Boxes are junctions.

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Arrows are pipes.

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See how the non-priority is above it in the lateral sense?

image.png
lone cliff
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yeah, I have a bottom junction with my feed lines and the input from the waste water.
Then on top I am running the line from my pumps

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how is what I have any different than this image you just showed me?

median heath
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See how nothing is going through this junction LATERALLY?

image.png
lone cliff
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oh, I can't use the top connector on the second T?

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okay

median heath
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This is where the unknown magic occurs.

image.png
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With that configuration.

lone cliff
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Thanks for having the patience to get me where I needed to be on this one. ❀️

true junco
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To be honest. I didnt realize it had to specifically be in the horizontal port of the cross either. (Fyi, in pipe fabrication terms a 4 way is a "Cross" and a 3way is a "Tee")

teal summit
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how important will it be to have a reinforced plates factory? rn im producing normal plates, rods, screws, and rotors, but am unsure if i should produce reinforced plates or not

median heath
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Important.

teal summit
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kk SnuttsGood

lone cliff
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I put down one assembler, and output it to a regular cargo bin.
It's lasted me the whole game so far. (I've done all the space elevator tiers)

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but I basically only automated the basic components, and mostly hand crafted everything else the entire game

mighty meteor
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Does 20 heavy modular frame per min sound good?

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I just recently completed phase two and I'm building a mega factory

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Mega to me at least SnuttsGood

lone cliff
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@median heath

image.png
median heath
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πŸ‘

lone cliff
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YAY, I done gud!

winter panther
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Ah okay, thanks!

mighty meteor
true junco
surreal rain
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what is the meta setup for plastic and rubber plants?

median heath
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There isn't one.

surreal rain
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well the most efficient way to make it

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im making a mega plastic plant and i want to know the most efficient way of making it work

supple mural
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Efficient as in most plastic from oil?

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That would be a set up involving diluted fuel and recycled rubber/plastic

median heath
surreal rain
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like 1 crude for __ plastic

surreal rain
supple mural
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one moment

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recycled rubber, recycled plastic, heavy oil residue, and diluted fuel are the special recipes youll need

surreal rain
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so this is the colplete loop?

winter panther
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Yeesh, what a setup

surreal rain
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complete*

supple mural
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yeah, well, without the water inputs drawn out

surreal rain
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water is water you can pretty much get inf

supple mural
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hence why i didnt bother

surreal rain
# supple mural

so this is it huh absolutly no way to make it more efficient?

supple mural
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heres a version with slightly larger numbers so you can get slightly nivcer ratios

image.png
supple mural
surreal rain
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im just gonna be overclocking everything i have the power

supple mural
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interesting, the plastic and rubber parts of the loop are pretty much 2:1

image.png
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if you split the plastic output and the plastic recycling

surreal rain
supple mural
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the refineries at the top

surreal rain
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Cuz I'm trying to max out my world

supple mural
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its essentially the same system

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just the second is a better way to look at it for certain design patterns

surreal rain
supple mural
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same plastic

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3 per crude

surreal rain
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Okay so no reason to go the extra step

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Got it

supple mural
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its not an extra step

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its just a question of whether you clump the refineries that go back into the loop with the refineries doing output or not

surreal rain
supple mural
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btw, if youre looking to max out your world, i would suggest looking at the satisfactory calculator

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a similar tool to what i used just now

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itll automatically give you (what it thinks to be) the most effective solution

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may need some tweaking

surreal rain
supple mural
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understandable

crude zodiac
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Not sure what I've done but apparently desite producing 600 HOR/min, I only cosume about 300 HOR and my pipes are empty :\ I was counting on that full 600/mi for fuel

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and here just by writing it out, I discover that I can't do math

surreal rain
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so i can get 7650 plastic per min from all the oil nodes from blue crator

supple mural
surreal rain
crude zodiac
surreal rain
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would this work for a pipe manifold system

PIPES.png
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its looking from the side not top down

crude zodiac
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so topping of the main pipe with a secondary? Should be fine. depending on how you are set up, could be worthwhile to add some valve to limit 'sloshing'

surreal rain
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ye ye

wind spade
remote robin
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Will this actually work if I pre-fill the machines?

image.png
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It's like the one from the earlier discussion, but no residual rubber. This is slightly less efficient but simpler

oblique hollow
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yes that works, its a very famous combination

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just pre-fill one of the machines by hand and it will slowly get the whole reaction rolling

remote robin
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That's cool, thanks πŸ™‚

thorny cedar
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its just a habit of mine i do it myself

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and tbh thats what i like about this game the most πŸ™‚ so dont judge me plz

prisma kraken
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i find it a lot easier to just enter the stuff into greeny's tool, but if you know the amt of fuel, how the calculation works is that you want 1/3 and 2/3 of the fuel going to make rubber & plastic, depending on which you want to come out with

heavy gust
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Might be a dumb question, but why are pipes still causing errors?
Couldnt they just stop the fluid simulations as long as pipes are full and the maximum draw from the pipes matches the max flow and input?
There is has to be something im not aware of, thats why im asking

median heath
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Flow isn't continuous for one.

heavy gust
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Yeah but lets say you have 2 extractors that provide 300 Each. And you connect them to a setup that uses 600. Why not ditch the entire simulation then.

vapid gorge
heavy gust
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i didnt encounter the accuracy problems myself, i just heard people mention it every so often

median heath
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The game does not operate in "per minute"

vapid gorge
heavy gust
median heath
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It very much does.
Your proposed fix is based on the pipe being full and the game knowing the per minute input is equal to the per minute draw.

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Since the game doesn't know or care at all about per minute, system doesn't work.

heavy gust
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Well the game should have some sense of a pipe being full, no?

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i cant know the implementation

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game isnt exactly free and open source

median heath
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Full yes. That half is fine. The second half is the part where it breaks down. And why simulation of fluids is continuous because the input/output is not continuous.

heavy gust
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alright my point that if input matches output, what happens it between can be ditched, no matter if discrete or continuous

median heath
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Inputs and outputs are done on cycles. So everything in even a full pipe is going to constantly shift as it is being pushed and pulled at regular intervals.

heavy gust
median heath
heavy gust
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wich you might aswell do

median heath
median heath
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In your example of 300:

heavy gust
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i dont see how adding a layer of abstraction would change the outcome.

median heath
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Why make it abstract when it's already precise?

cinder silo
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For large systems it is also a layer of lag, no thanks.

heavy gust
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but wasnt the problem pipes being not precise?

median heath
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And that's being fixed when they scale them down.

heavy gust
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good to know

cinder silo
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The problem is many people don't lay pipes properly then get surprised things fold up.

wind spade
median heath
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Mk2 is being brought down to 500, mk1 to 250. All fluid recipes scaled accordingly.

heavy gust
wind spade
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if a machine takes e.g. 30/min fluid, it may take e.g. 5 fluid every 12 seconds

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because machines take/produce fluids every X seconds, not continuously over time

next pewter
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^good explanation!

median heath
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Extractors have a 1s output cycle.
So in your 300 example. Pure node does 240/min, what is actually happening is it releases 4 oil every second.
Scale that to 300, it's still releasing 4 oil per cycle, but you've reduced the cycle time to 0.8s

wind spade
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so for most cases, your pipes aren't "full", they may lack a few m3 here and there as machines take it from the machines taking fluids

supple mural
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also inputs - outputs = 0 is not a reliable way to know that the pipes are not being used for more than 600/min

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you still need to do some more math/simulation

heavy gust
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maybe yhea

supple mural
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even if they are full they seem to be susceptible to oscillations that will stall out your machines :/

heavy gust
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i have always been weirded out by the choice to have a fluid sim inside the pipes

cinder silo
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My design of my rebuild turbofuel station is a painful example, the "numbers" said it should have run flawlessly but one quad of refineries kept choking up, my fix was to tap an oil well to oversupply it, that worked but now the nearby wells idle. crap in > crap out with large pipe works definitely doesn't tell the whole story, I know there is a design flaw in there somewhere.

next pewter
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Just keep sĉare capacity?aim for 450 or 550 m3/min in your pipes?

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Then it will never stall/overdraw over 600.

cinder silo
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The system were designed around 450 feeds, that wasn't the problem πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

next pewter
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I dont care about 100% efficiency myself,just oversupply each step by a little. That way it allpws for minor bugs w/o grinding to a halt.

median heath
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I dont care about 100% efficiency myself

Pain 😭

next pewter
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And it fills all pipes and belts even when started empty. But i can imagine it might be unacceptable for some.

cinder silo
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I'm not fond of machines needlessly stalling, this as a result is a hell of a kludge on my part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-gvCLDyi7s

YouTube
Taromani Zula
Turbofuel Oil pipline

Shown here is the layout of my post refit oil pipelines to feed the nearby turbofuel refinery.
The well feed was added in order to prevent the refinery itself stalling but as you can see in the footage, the overproduction causes stalls in the oil extractors themselves.

I guess it is preferred to having three refineries in one group keep going I...

β–Ά Play video
next pewter
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Sorry @median heath . Not to bug you,but thats hpw my brain works.chaos and imperfection are OK to me.😊

median heath
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P A I N 😭

next pewter
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Take a Painkiller?πŸ˜…πŸ˜‰

cinder silo
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Some pains are immune to painkillers.

heavy gust
median heath
next pewter
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Meditate/do a stress detox,like ppl afraid of spiders?

teal summit
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hello friends, ive decided to go about my world by creating new factories every time i need a specific part. How viable is this strategy? I'm worried I'll run out of iron nodes or will be producing parts I won't need in the future

next pewter
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There is, Sev. But not w/o you putting the work πŸ˜‰

cinder silo
next pewter
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But letit slip,of topic 😊

median heath
next pewter
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^ its the best way.

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No rebuild,just better/bigger builds w plenty of building suppies from older plants!

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Though it will be timeconsuming.

cinder silo
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You can't go too far wrong with overproducing unless you're after something absurd like 140 (not possible iirc) nuclear pasta or some other insane challenge that will make the cpu pop.

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Bollocks! , tools lost my two in-progress plans πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ dammit.

teal summit
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also is there any value in producing screws by themselves?

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ive never needed just screws for anything

median heath
heavy gust
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i just produce them on demand as part of a bigger build

cinder silo
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One plan thankfully survives as a screenshot, not sure on the other one though.

recyc_refinery.png
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Scratch that, wrong plan πŸ€¦β€β™‚οΈ , I definitely lost both.

wind spade
# teal summit ive never needed just screws for anything

200 for AWESOME shop
~2000 for schematics
~1000 for equipment (if you do one of each)

that's about it for one-time usages, so in general I do not recommend making a specialised screw production. Either just make one constructor from which you take stack when you need for something or not even that πŸ˜„

wind spade
cinder silo
wind spade
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have you by any chance cleared cache of a browser?
are you on the correct version?
have you used tools in multiple browser tabs at the same time?
are all tabs lost or just some?

cinder silo
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One tab and my cache is routinely cleared due to issues in the past. all tabs are gone, now there is a new tab called unnamed factory with nothing in it, instead of the SE facility and dpf plant.

wind spade
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yeah, clearing cache may (depending on a browser) clear the production lines as well

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if you're doing those clears manually, I recommend exporting the tabs with the new export feature πŸ™‚

cinder silo
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Not all doom and gloom, I do have them saved as screens so I can give remaking them a shot, the SE plant might be initiially a pain because I'm unsure which recipes I picked.

Space_elevator_products_complete.png Blue_crater_DPF_plan.png
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I spent the past ten minutes frantically hunting through saved crap.

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Afk for a bit, cheers for responding πŸ‘‹

wind spade
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if this happens again and is not after clearing cache, feel free to ping me. And one more reason to backup your saves tabs πŸ˜›

teal summit
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ok sorry for all the questions, but when making a new factory, how do you decide which nodes to start on? I want to make a RIP factory, and i have two choices: 3 normal nodes, or 2 impure nodes. How do I decide which nodes to use for this factory?

wind spade
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based on how much iron you need

teal summit
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thats the problem, im new and idk 😦

median heath
teal summit
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idk what good rates for production are, if i use 2 impures, i can get 5 rip/min, if i use 3 normals, i can get 15

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but im not sure how many ill be needing

median heath
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Stop solving forwards.

median heath
wind spade
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yeah, just make some good number so that it's enough for your building needs, if you find yourself running out often, make more

hot dirge
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So for the math, do I just assume how many it provides per minute and then when I use splitters I divide it by how many conveyors I have sticking out of it? So if I have a smelter making 30 ingots a minute and a mk1 conveyor belt running that 30pm I can use the splitter to split it in 2 with each belt running it at 15pm? And then all calculations are basically that?

supple mural
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assuming the outputs from the splitters never back up, that math works

median heath
supple mural
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if one branch is only consuming ten then eventually it will back up and become a 10-20 split

void wasp
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Quick question about pipes and headlift. Say I have a pipe junction with 1 input and 3 outputs that go up to the same altitude. If I put a pump on the input, will the headlift be divided in 3 or will it apply fully to all outputs?

median heath
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Apply fully.

wind spade
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headlift is applied to whole pipe section after pump

void wasp
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oki thx πŸ˜„

true junco
median heath
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Which is fine if that is your goal (other than it being literally unattainable)

true junco
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This is why i see it as just solving. Forwards vs backwards is the same thing. Its all ratios and you plug in a numbers and the numbers have a maximum. You solve forward to the maximum. Or you guess the maximum and work back to find out how off the mark you were and adjust. But adjusting is working forwards sometimes.

πŸ˜†

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And im not making a distinction between local and global maximums (for now). That is calculus and some folks here panic about basic ratios....

true junco
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Its amazing how much you can get done when the autosave hits.

void wasp
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Setting up my new power plant with 24 coal gens :

|        |       |       |        |
*--G---G-*-G---G-*-G---G-*-G---G--*
|        |       |       |        |
*--G---G-*-G---G-*-G---G-*-G---G--*
|        |       |       |        |
*--G---G-*-G---G-*-G---G-*-G---G--*```
The numbers are the water extractors feeding into pipes, the Gs are the coal gens, and the other stuff is pipes and their intersections. This is gonna work, right?
elfin nebula
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it looks so unnecessary complicated

void wasp
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Just checkin cuz its the first time i'm trying to do a 'parallel' coal gen setup.
Well, it probably is complicated, but i'm doing it so that the plant looks a bit nicer

elfin nebula
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just a small block of 20 because the number is clean with nodes

void wasp
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looks nice!

elfin nebula
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because 600/2 are 20 generators.
780/2 are 26
24 is just scuffed

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and when using impure you have directly 20 without a second block

void wasp
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I'm one lvl 1 pipes for now, I have even started unlocking phase 2

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have not*

wind spade
elfin nebula
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3:8 is nice in theory but not practical since the nodes have no power of 8

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you have 20 or 26

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never 24

wind spade
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nodes?

elfin nebula
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coal

wind spade
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8 gens needs 120 coal

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that's very much power of a practical number

elfin nebula
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and no node has 120 coal, only very early

wind spade
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if it has 240, you split it for two setups

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and my point is piping anyway, not belting

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belt can be a big manifold or whatever

elfin nebula
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belt cant be big manifold since you would need an mk6 or 7 for that

wind spade
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(and nobody says you only have to use fully overclocked nodes and without remains)

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you need mk3 for 24 gens

void wasp
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Using compacted coal, but I got the production covered already. I got 9 water extractors ready, so I might go 3:8, but I was wondering if there was any practical reason why I'd want to 3x3:8 instead of the setup I had imagined?

elfin nebula
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doesnt change the point. to make 3:8 you need to get inefficient on the nodes

wind spade
wind spade
elfin nebula
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also 2:5 works the same and doesnt even has the problem of overcapping the 300, so even more save for new people

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so its ultimately simpler and more solid piping

wind spade
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2:5 is inefficient on water extractors πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

elfin nebula
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underclock slightly

wind spade
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same as the coal node πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

elfin nebula
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not the same, underclocking coal and not water means huge loss of power

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and for a power plant, thats literally contraproductive

wind spade
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then build 100 water extractors at 1% if you're concerned with that

elfin nebula
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8/3 has a 2,66666 ratio and 5/2 a 2,5 ratio
what is quiute similar and not extreme. easier for most people to understand, impossible to fail piping and enables using the full coal node

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no idea why anyone would tune it to use water extractors at 100 %
sounds like a really dumb idea

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just a, we can run at 100 %, so we do it, no matter how dumb it is

snow dove
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Why is using a water extractor at 100% clock a β€œreally dumb idea”?

crisp peak
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I have 6 groups of 8 coal gens and 3 water extractors. They run well πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

oblique hollow
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Since when are ratio builds dumb. Have factory games lied to me tired_jace

tropic hawk
elfin nebula
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for us it always was fine

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and it works

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one person rushes the milestone by hand, the other one builds the power plant

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at the end you only add the mk5 belts and run it

wind spade
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you know people here want to enjoy the game, not just rush all milestones πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

elfin nebula
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never saw someone enjoying it to dismantle ol inefficient factories again

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best enjoyment is having unlocke everything to buil actual fancy stuff

wind spade
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that's because some people don't dismantle them πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

elfin nebula
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well, doesnt work when you have plans for large endgame

wind spade
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they just keep them because there's no reason to dismantle unless you're running out of resources, which 99% of people aren't

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and early game factories can very much be efficient

elfin nebula
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and rushing milestones when you have planned 2000 hours of factories, isnt much of a timescale xD

obsidian smelt
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Just burry your early game factory beneath your final factory

void wasp
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Well, it worked out, not the most beautiful power plant, I'll give you that, but it works.

image.png image.png image.png image.png
smoky bison
#

Question for meta, what recipes should I use for plastic and rubber and turbofuel on 1 600/min oil pipe? Would I just use the standard plastic and rubber recipes and use the waste fluid for 1 of the other recipes or...? Any answers are amazing πŸ™‚

wind spade
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and diluted fuel ofc

smoky bison
wind spade
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diluted fuel or diluted packaged fuel, both work

smoky bison
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Oh so I need to package water first and make it into the diluted fuel to unpack that into normal fuel and make that into turbofuel?

wind spade
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(or don't make turbofuel at all and go for just diluted fuel and then nuclear)

smoky bison
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true

cinder silo
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A decent sized dilute installation can also be repurposed for canned fuel down the line once you replace it with nuclear with minimal effort.

smoky bison
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how much fuel does a fuel generator use per minute?

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Normal fuel, not turbo

oblique hollow
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12

smoky bison
#

ty

brittle kayak
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I've got quite the operation ahead of me: harnessing all 2,550 oil at the crater lake for various production lines.

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Coke, plastic, rubber etc (but no fuel as that's already done on the west coast).

ionic ridge
#

Is such a thing generally possible?
Do I just add block signals in front of each merge?

image.png
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There's the uranium node in the cave close to the Grassy Fields start, that I'd like to have serviced by train, but parts of the cave are...narrow-ish.

wind spade
ionic ridge
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Block signals also on exiting the merge?

wind spade
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I thought the arrows are signals

ionic ridge
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Ah, then all good

deft lichen
wind spade
deft lichen
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that way, trains will only enter the bidi segment if they can exit

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it CAN lead to deadlocks, depends what follows the bidi segment

teal summit
#

still in the biofuel stage of power generation, does carbon generation become less of an issue?

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i have like 7 or 8 biomass burners up and managing them is a pain

ionic ridge
deft lichen
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path in block out

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the entry signals of a block designate what block type it is (you cannot mix entry signals, but you can mix exit signals, because they're really other blocks' entry signals)

ionic ridge
#

Ah, gotcha thanks.

I'd rather just ask a couple times extra rather than too few to finagle Satisfactory's train-signal logic out in my head, because the one rule I brought with me was "Forget what you know about Factorio's train-signal logic"

image.png
deft lichen
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no worries, this is a place to ask questions

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essentially, all Satisfactory signal setups are valid Factorio setups, but not vice versa

wind spade
#

well, even vice versa

the only things from Factorio that don't work are stackers (as trains always go shortest path)

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basically you can take every junction you built in Factorio and put it into Satisfactory and it will work
I'm not saying it'll be the best solution, but it will work πŸ™‚

deft lichen
wind spade
deft lichen
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the differences seem minor but I think have a big impact on how the railway network is laid out

wind spade
#

well the difference is that SF is 3D so there's no reason to build 2D junctions πŸ˜„

ocean barn
wind spade
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but my point is that if you take a 2D junction from Factorio and copy it to SF, it'll work

median heath
unkempt crypt
#

Alright, I'm thinking about making a 64 Coal Generator set-up
As I'm not very experienced with with water set-ups heres the plan:

The set-up would be split up into 4 rows of 16 generators each.
At top and bottom there would be water extractors only pumping into the assigned row, totalling 6 extractors per row running at 100%.
All 16 generators of each row would run at 100%.
240 Coal/min would be fed via a single belt per row that splits up when it passes by the generators.

Would this work?

#

Math should add up, I'm only concerned about how the water behaves and how the belts will behave

true junco
median heath
true junco
#

Ah. Well idk what their issue is then.

sick spindle
ionic ridge
# median heath Ok, but why not just?

Maybe its just how I built it, but theres so many stalagmites at the narrow parts in that cave, that visually the train would be clipping through them if I used two seperate rails as usual.

I dont plan to run many trains on this line, but wanted to just have the opportunity to have a small bottleneck.

near beacon
#

hi, do any one know if pumps take in to account fluid level in buffer when counting headlift? i cant figure out why my pumps keeps fluctuating

ionic ridge
#

afaik, whatever's in a pipe that reaches pumps, will simply bring up to their head-lift limit.

The amount of liquid in a buffer does contribute to how much head-lift it naturally has, but head-lifts dont stack, ie. putting pumps directly one after the other closely.

This means your buffer will head-lift to a certain point given x fluid, but if you put a pump at that point and the buffer drops, no fluid will reach the pump.

At this point its safer to build such that your buffer doesnt give any head-lift

frosty owl
wind spade
near beacon
#

i'm pumping to buffers not out of them

#

one pump is reaching it's maximum head lift when buffer is half full, so i added another one just before it to push for the full buffer. I feed fuel generators from those buffers by gravity, i prefiled everything to full for start, and when they start operating the pumps fluctuate and pipes become half empty

wind spade
#

why are you using buffers though?

#

just pump to the fuel gens directly

near beacon
wind spade
#
  • don't feed from below, feed from level or above
  • loop the pipe
near beacon
#

made it work without fluid buffer, found an issue, was trying to pump fuel from one end of manifold and apparently other end would not go thru while refinery's are making only 487.5 turbo-fuel, putting pump in the middle of manifold solved issue

wind spade
#

yeah, it will work the same with or without buffer in the best case, in the worst case the buffer hurts

no reason to use buffers ever (except for fluid loading/unloading from train)

small kayak
#

maybe backup buffers for fuel to power some gens to bring back the power supply after a crash are worth it. I mostly use em for decoration 😁

mystic moon
teal summit
#

just unlocked pipes and i dont understand how they work:

image.png
#

this is the pipe that connects to my coal generator, but my coal generator isnt getting any of this water

#

heres a picture of the pipe as well

small kayak
#

on the other side the net should not crush with the new switches at all, so...

oblique hollow
# teal summit

General pipe info:
Machines produce fluid. If fluid flows, thats the flow rate
Machines also produce head lift. That just means "I can push fluid this far up before i stop"
Normally, machines have 10 m head lift. So fluid can move 10 m up before it stops moving

Does that make sense so far?

teal summit
#

yup

oblique hollow
#

now, the more tricky part:
pipeline pumps dont use suction AND you cant put down multiple pumps close to each other to "add up head lift"

#

so if you already have a pipe going out of a machine and going up 10 m, you need a pipeline pump BELOW the 10 m so it can push the fluid 20 m further up

#

and if you need another 20 m after that? you got to put the next pipeline pump below the 20 m limit of the first pump

#

and then it can go up another 20 m from that second pump's position

teal summit
#

is there an easy way to see the height that a pipes at

oblique hollow
#

the pump's menu

#

if you dont have a pump yet, you have to measure the height from outside using walls or foundations (walls are 4 m tall). Or go the extra safe way and add a pump very close to the machine

#

also, when you snap a pump to a pipe, it will send out a funny blue ring that travels along the pipe
noticed that one yet?

teal summit
#

ahhhh i figured it all out

#

this all makes sense now thank you :))

#

i finally dont need to deal with biomass burners!

oblique hollow
#

πŸ₯³

#

if you need more pipe info, check #welcome , theres a pipe manual linked there

hexed cairn
#

I'm currently about to build my first aluminum factory and trying to decide how to split the amount of ingots I have to alclad sheet and casings. Does this kinda make sense? Next step for us is to research mk3 miners and then gradually rebuild our entire prod in a new factory from scratch with new miners and mk5 conveyors, so will need a lot of alclad for the belts. Not quite sure how many casings I will need in the future and what for. First time I reached aluminum in a world.

image.png
oblique hollow
#

Generally: Alclad is needed in very low quantities early on, mostly for Heat sinks or Conveyor Belts
Casings are the much more frequently needed part

hexed cairn
#

Oh, that is good to know, I expected it'd be the other way round!

oblique hollow
#

the cheaper part gets more uses due to being cheap

wind spade
oblique hollow
#

If you dont know what you need, then simply not dedicating your ingots to anything for now is also a good choice

#

you can always build more machines for casings or alclad later on

#

just... sink them so production keeps going

hexed cairn
#

that's some good points, thanks! Will build it smaller for now and see what I will need later on. Sinks are already in place on every rousource that has overprod.

bitter dragon
#

I'm trying to figure out what i should do with excess of lower tier items I'm not sure i want to stick the overflow from my storage into the awesome sink i think i want to tier mats up before sinking them like instead of sinking plates turn them into reinforced plates and have that flow into my storage pipeline then into excess for smart plates or whatever and then just sink the highest tier of each item that i have unlocked

#

but I'm not sure i can handle having lots for factories sitting around waiting for enough resources or having too much of one and not enough of another excess product to carry on and going back to backing up the lines so i may just have to end up sinking each product i want to store instead and i can't come to a decision on which to do

wind spade
bitter dragon
#

see that's what i would usually do but i was thinking but what if these plates became smart plates and then got sinked instead

wind spade
#

you can do some smart things like "if both iron plate and screws are being overflown, process them to reinforced plates before sinking, otherwise sink the base ingredient"

bitter dragon
#

ohhhh

wind spade
#

but imo it's not worth

#

if you're low on sink points, I'd just recommend building a dedicated sink point factory

bitter dragon
#

maybe once i have programmable splitters i could set it all up like that

wind spade
#

smart splitters are enough for that

bitter dragon
wind spade
#

then yeah just overflow everything from storage to sink

bitter dragon
#

yeah i guess that's probably the simplest option and therefore the best i thought i'd try and do something fancy but i don't think i can make the numbers line up really

teal summit
#

Currently all of my factories have their own storage, when is it worth to start making a central storage? I’m asking in terms of transportation unlocks, since conveyoring everything to central storage would result in spaghetti

wind spade
#

since start

#

early game most factories will be most likely close enough and as soon as you start expanding, you should already have transportation options like trucks

versed violet
true junco
#

Hit a first with tools. It actually told me to use 2 recipies to make the same component for a production chain. And not because of lack of material...

Screenshot_20230822_203747_Chrome.jpg
cinder silo
#

If you want to cut the recipe down you can eliminate one, it looks to be using an alt that takes up outputs from elsewhere.

true junco
#

I dont mind it. Its just an odd thing ive never seen happen like this. Usually multiple paths only show up when hitting a resource limit.

vapid gorge
#

Probably some very niche situations where the resource values conflict a bit? odd πŸ˜„

elfin nebula
#

same happens with computers.
optimal resource usage is caterium computers with all board recipes mixed

flat copper
#

What tool is that?

cinder silo
vapid gorge
flat copper
#

This is going to make my ADHD brain very happy

vapid gorge
# flat copper This is going to make my ADHD brain very happy

it takes some practice to use but worth it. And you can save plans for future reference.

imo it's often most useful to swap recipes in and out rather than letting it decide which recipes for you. This lets you make plans tailored to a location and available resources

true junco
#

Yeah I do that a lot. Mostly because im looking for nice machine ratios for compact modules.

flat copper
#

I think the best part about this tool is the fact that it finally showed me why I was having so much trouble getting my Nuclear plant up and running efficiently. TLDR: limestone problems.

vapid gorge
#

You hadn’t fully mathed out stuff?

flat copper
#

I did, but in my head and with the notepad app

true junco
#

I mathed a lot... but ultimately... i dont have time anymore. Been working every day β‰ˆ12hrs a day for the last few months.

wind spade
true junco
wind spade
true junco
#

Oh. Haha. That's Clever.

wind spade
#

apparently if the silica is "free", the silicon HSC is more resource efficient than normal HSC

true junco
#

That's fair.

#

Not the most straight forward tho. I havent yet built HSCs anywhere near bauxite refinement. And the worst aluminum to bauxite yield is any path that produces silica and doesnt consume it to make the ingots. I need to tweak that, but i was mostly just trying to get ratios i like for the RCUs and the immediate precursor machines anyway.

wind spade
#

well idk how things work exactly with alumina, but the tool doesn't consider things like "how close are nodes together", so if it says this is the most weighted resource efficient way, then it most likely is πŸ™‚ you can always disable the silica HSC if you don't want the tool to use it πŸ˜‰

true junco
#

Indeed. I only brought it up as it i never saw it take 2 alts for an intermediary unless i was hitting a resource limit, and i find bugs/quirks in programing interesting in themselves.

Ive pretty much settled on my process for making aluminum anyways. Since it fits into so few blueprint modules. πŸ˜†

wind spade
#

rubber/plastic production has 2 recipes for rubber regularly

#

recycled + residual

vast bramble
#

I wonder if it's a valid VOP and will it still work considering that lower output goes much much higher than the higher one. Logically thinking it shouldn't matter after the valve but logic and pipes don't always play along...

Desktop_2023_08_23_16_40_26_712.png
wind spade
#

I'd personally not use VOP for anything

#

Neither valves

median heath
#

Valves tend to prevent logic in pipes πŸ˜„

vast bramble
#

i'm not even sure if I need it. I get 546 water from extractors, 312 should go to blenders, 234 to refiners elsewhere, refiners are critical so I wanted to prioritize them, blenders are not. no any reuse/mixing involved though

wind spade
#

if you make as much as you consume, then there's no reason for prioritising

#

also you should fill the pipes before running it anyway, so the valves are kinda pointless

true junco
#

So regarding Aluminum. These are the Flowcharts for the 3 modules i use.

The module for Coke (fabric to sink, tho I plan to make a different version for the next installation where i will make plastic/rubber for other uses instead of just dumping the byproduct to sink.

The module turning 300 Bauxite into 300 Ingots. (Yes it looks like a lot of machines but they are OC'd to 250%.

The last module converts all the aluminum ingots to Alclad sheets and casings. (Will develope a different pair of modules for when i want to focus into one or the other, this eas just initial set up)

Screenshot_20230823_075833_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20230823_080024_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20230823_080638_Chrome.jpg
wind spade
#

@lusty zephyr if load balancers melt your brain, why do you load balance? πŸ˜›

brittle kayak
#

Hmm, now how to balance things sensibly... I've got 14 refineries making a total of 2,275 iron ingots per minute. Those should be fed to a total of 72 Constructors, set to six rows of 12 Constructors each, each of which wants 31.25 ingots per minute i.e. 375 per row, or 2,250 total, per minute - the rest will just be sunk.

image.png
#

Think I'll just add a few more refineries and tweak the clocks so that I get 6 groups, each producing a total of 375 ingots per minute.

wind spade
#

manifolds πŸ™‚

brittle kayak
#

Yeah, that's a likely solution, just need to do some math on how to balance the inputs so that I won't go over capacity at any point.

#

Might need to make a little more room between the refineries and constructors.

frosty owl
wind spade
brittle kayak
#

That's pretty much the "need to do some math" part right there.

wind spade
#

yeah, I was looking at "balance" lol

brittle kayak
#

I took an easy way out, though: built 4 more refineries, so I can just make six groups of three refineries, each producing the 375/min that each constructor row wants.

frosty owl
#

I'd have gone for the OC route (rather than DC), but that is indeed a smart way to solve logistical issues (or at least make them easier) imo

brittle kayak
#

Most everything is running at 250% already. πŸ™‚

#

Well, not anymore since now I have 1 underclocked refinery per group.

frosty owl
#

Eh, that's a fair trade. Couple machines more, much less beltwork
Also makes the whole "X to Y" problem easier to tackle in it's entirety

vagrant rivet
#

Then I do something wrong....
52 Raffs at 100% for 1 Pure Copper Mine at 162,5% for max. material efficiency - 780 copper in and 1980 copper ingots output....

brittle kayak
#

There we go: 4,050 iron wire per minute.

Screenshot20230823-21293000000.png
vagrant rivet
#

calculated input - hope there is enough energy without nuclear power

image.png
brittle kayak
#

Then on to the next step: need to make over 500 Stators per minute.

lusty zephyr
wind spade
#

why are you doing something that melts your brain

lusty zephyr
#

because

#

valheim melts my brain more?

wind spade
#

you could manifold instead of balancing

lusty zephyr
#

hmmmmmmm

#

well i got the load balancer to work so i will of course use it now

wind spade
#

that's fair, but personally I wouldn't bother with balancers. either direct input from machine to machine, or just manifold πŸ˜„

frosty owl
thorny cedar
frosty owl
#

"dumping"?

thorny cedar
#

saturaten

#

english words

frosty owl
#

I reckon it's a word, I'm asking about what you meant with that

thorny cedar
#

would greatly reduce the ammount of splitter but increase the space a little bit

frosty owl
#

Eh, "greatly" is debatable, but sure.

strong lotus
#

any way to calculate how much father you go in hypertube cannons if you add one more

#

because 15 is like rocky desert to dune desert or grass fields to dune desert

#

then 13 is just biome to biome

#

like when i use my massive 23 hypertube cannon i get launched from rocky to dune

#

but when i go in at like hypertube 19 or so i only go across the biome

#

and what is a decent angle for the "cannon" to act like a cannon and not like a launcher

vapid gorge
#

Angle and entry velocity matter so it’s hard. If you stood motionless on a belt that fed you into the cannon you could experiment

rigid elm
#

Am i playing this game right?

Satisfactory.png
wind spade
icy saddle
#

I have died to the edge of the map once with a cannon, but using the same cannon later, it will send me to where I need

junior slate
rigid elm
#

Just seeing things that make "power managment" easier... and that's... not a problum for me

elfin nebula
#

@wind spade thats probably the heaviest fail i ever had.
none of these weird additions at top isnt evn slightly used. and can batteries even be a byproduct??

image.png
wind spade
#

rounding error, can be safely ignored

elfin nebula
#

ounding of what? resources not even used?

#

when it was rounding, okay. but nothing of that is used, the resources for that dont even exist xD

wind spade
#

the algorithm works with all resources and all recipes

elfin nebula
#

@prisma kraken now you help with cutting the stators :v

#

was clean before

image.png
#

now im fine with ~1400

#

but that scuff the numbers

prisma kraken
#

how are you needing so many stators?

elfin nebula
#

well, the wiring before already took 900

#

control rods again 840

#

motors

prisma kraken
#

yeah, speed wiring cuts the required number of stators down significantly

elfin nebula
#

so im done with 1400

#

but i dont get good numbers for that

prisma kraken
#

ahh, you need that bonkers number for electric motor, ok

elfin nebula
#

560 control rods

#

can you find an output that gives clean numbers again

#

or was 2250 the only one that worked randomly

#

thats half clean

image.png
#

i guess

#

im sad

#

found good number, resulted in bad number

prisma kraken
#

looking at numbers ofr the midrange components, i have these as loose numbers I'm following:

image.png
elfin nebula
#

the 1260 is oof

#

and going pure is 840

#

whats also not good

prisma kraken
#

it isn't that bad if you direct belt the wire into the stator assemblers from an ingot manifold

elfin nebula
#

no i mean caterium nodes

prisma kraken
#

ahh

elfin nebula
#

oh wait. there is a pure and a normal one

#

so i have 1380

prisma kraken
#

you're eating up so much caterium with ai limiters, i guess

elfin nebula
#

im oing pure there, its not that bad actually

prisma kraken
#

i pretty much always go pure caterium

#

32.5 refineries isn't a small factory, but its just bp spamming πŸ˜›

elfin nebula
#

getting there, i can use a single one

image.png
#

but the copper is bad there

prisma kraken
#

so use copper alloy

elfin nebula
#

768 copper + 384 iron thonkinging

prisma kraken
#

just make a few extra stators, lol

elfin nebula
#

then all numbers are fucked again

prisma kraken
#

i'd have to play with it all myself, but i think pure copper & pure caterium dovetail with one another with fused wire

elfin nebula
#

ha

#

almost

image.png
#

wont get better i guess

#

the alloy doesnt fit

prisma kraken
#

i mean there's always some clocking you need to do when you're mixing and matching

#

i'm grabbing a nap

oblique hollow
#

from what i could tell: every default electronics recipe is intentionally tedious

#

computer, HSC, Supercomp, RCU

#

supercomp is just really focused on being built in multiples of 8 (or 4 i guess if you are ok with decimals)

elfin nebula
#

im replanning quite some stuff but we really have a shortage on copper xD

median heath
#

Also "multiples of 8"
Uh... 8 / 1.875 = 4.26666666666666666666666666666666666666

So... πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

oblique hollow
#

1.875 * 8

#

not divide by

median heath
#

You're saying 8 itself isn't a multiple of 8?

oblique hollow
#

multiples of 8 machines

#

or 4

median heath
#

"machines" is a very, VERY key word to deciphering your meaning.

oblique hollow
#

i forgot ok

median heath
#

😭

wind spade
#

(also is what most people use, not necessarily correctly, but they do)

median heath
#

It's 6 a.m., no forgetting allowed.

oblique hollow
#

not 4 me

#

I have a "allowed to forget" card

next pewter
#

Whats the max plutonium rods you can produce/sink?

#

/min?

elfin nebula
next pewter
#

Good question.Reasonable max imho.

Not aiming for max,just smth biggish

#

Like 50-80% of effective max for example

elfin nebula
#

for sinking, not power production?

next pewter
#

Plan to sink it so not for power output, just for the sake of it.

I tried sfcalc but it didnt return a solution?

elfin nebula
#

use wanted amount uranium for rods, then use the waste with all default plutonium recipes

#

so you dont want to max plutonium at all, you want highest waste to plutonium ratio to remove the waste

next pewter
#

Ah, good point. So i should jist decide on (a reasonable) amount of waste i can process

elfin nebula
#

an example using the 3 normal uranium nodes and ignoring the impure on the mountain

image.png
#

sink 3.2

#

then this

image.png
#

40 rods are 200 power plants, producing clean 2000 waste

#

43.2 scuff the waste handling

true junco
queen slate
#

Default plutonium recipes are good, unless one wants to get rid of massive waste storage faster.

elfin nebula
#

they have the highest waste usage

#

the alts are more efficient, taking less waste

#

so needs a larger factory for same amount of waste

#

producing more rods, that you dont even want

true junco
queen slate
#

Oops, right, forgot that alts are to make more plutonium rods.

elfin nebula
# elfin nebula reasonable max, max power efficient amount, or actual max?

so that are the cases of my question.

  • max reasonable: max alt uranium + all default plutonium -> sink
  • max power: max alt uranium + all alt plutonium except fertile uranium -> burn
  • actual max: some scuffed stuff where you use fertile uranium alt that needs fresh ore in the waste handling, giving more rods, but less power and is extremely scuffed to build
true junco
#

The idea of maximizing consumption of a resource just doesnt factor in for a lot of folks normally. It could make sense for disposal of byproducts in the various refinery and blender recipies, but most of those byproducts are very useful themselves and disposing of them still tends to be seen as "getting the most out of this"

elfin nebula
winter panther
#

Is it possible to consume half the map with radioactivity from storage?

elfin nebula
#

sure

oblique hollow
#

if you cover half the map in storage, possibly

winter panther
#

From one area

elfin nebula
#

yeah, with equally spaced out container, it should be possible

winter panther
#

As in, let's say I put it on the edge of the map, is it possible to store enough to the point where it reaches the middle of the map?

#

Since I've heard that the sphere of radioactivity actually builds up overtime

elfin nebula
#

still not defined the it enough

winter panther
#

Wdym?

#

So if you imagine the bottom like as the bottom of the map, and that top semi-circle being the radioactivite sphere, that's what I mean

Screenshot_2023-08-24_at_11.58.31_pm.png
#

A storage area, creating that much radioactivity

#

Is there limits to this sphere or it just continues on?

#

Since I know it can reach a radius of 400m

#

So that means it can just, keep growing, right?

elfin nebula
#

depends how much you store

#

simple solution ist just to not store. mikuStare

#

time for bed now KannaBear comfy

wind spade
wind spade
wind spade
winter panther
#

I guess the worry is just the idea of having such a concentrated storage where at one point it'll just erradiate large sections of your map (assuming ocean placement)

#

But yeah, seeing that did help me with that worrying thought, thanks!

wind spade
strong lotus
queen slate
#

I saw people put fast conveyor before entrance. Can either give you stable good speed, or even more speed if you run/slide.

brittle kayak
#

Slide jump on a Mk.5 belt gives you something like 130km/h speed (slightly faster than the train).

vapid gorge
snow dove
#

plus depending on speed/length you can take a second to get up, stretch, grab a drink

strong lotus
#

you know when you gotta sit back down

#

i use accels for simple biome to biome travel

#

i use my cannon for edge to edge map traveling

snow dove
#

Accelerators at least in U7 and later in U8 are plenty fast, probably faster than cannons at the upper limit

strong lotus
#

because it gets me from rocky to dune

snow dove
#

most of my accelerators are 32 iirc

strong lotus
#

why

snow dove
#

speed

strong lotus
#

wym accels

snow dove
#

Cannon attached to a proper hypertube

strong lotus
#

how would you even do that

#

ohhh

#

i thought you ment a real cannon

snow dove
#

BP sections of 8, then paste 4 of em

strong lotus
#

because a few more after 23 launches you into space or out of bounds

snow dove
#

With the most efficient design that is

#

normally requires a hypertube brake at the end

strong lotus
#

accels are cheap and good

snow dove
#

otherwise you phase through solid matter lol

strong lotus
snow dove
#

That's what 32 entrances with the best design looks like

Screenshot20230824-18491700000.png
strong lotus
snow dove
strong lotus
#

i know how to make it 100% work

snow dove
#

I like linear ones cause i can just run at it and boom done

strong lotus
#

it works 100% of the time

#

never failed on me

strong lotus
#

dont need for biome to biome travel

#

and def not for factory to factory

snow dove
#

Power should never be a concern if you build power properly

strong lotus
strong lotus
snow dove
#

and they're not that big, only when you use big ole ones

#

8-16 is plenty for intra-biome travel

strong lotus
#

or 2 with a accel

snow dove
#

I do have 1-2 that are 40 segments because they travel long distances

strong lotus
#

i need to test it futher

snow dove
#

32vs40 entrances

Screenshot20230824-18524600000.png
#

Also works as a great center piece for my main base

strong lotus
#

i was almost correct

#

so basically

#

you can use it for a little biome-biome travel and factory to factory travel

snow dove
#

that's 40 entrances

strong lotus
#

ive seen someone do it but im not sure how it works

#

probably has to do with powering off some entrances to set your course

snow dove
#

didn't really like hypertube logistics, plus i already laid the tubing for 7 of my 8 accelerators

strong lotus
#

flow is just ass always

snow dove
#

You either made a mistake or were impatient

lime spruce
#

Hey I'm just trying out the calc does anyone know the supposed purity of nodes when you don't put an input?

mystic moon
#

Don't use scim for production planning, use https://u6.satisfactorytools.com

Satisfactory Tools

A collection of powerful tools for planning and building the perfect base. Calculate your production or consumption, browse items, buildings, and schematics and share your builds with others!

lime spruce
main shuttle
#

ok i have to ask. if CSS knew that they were planning on doing 6x8 capacity in large containers & trucks, why not make the UI stretch just that little bit farther to accommodate all of it without needing to scroll?

vapid gorge
main shuttle
#

no, 1440p

#

scroll bar

2023-08-24_202924.jpg
#

it's a little thing, but it's there

quartz violet
#

I hate that

oblique hollow
#

looks like you are using large inventory icons

quartz violet
#

Huh

main shuttle
#

nope, just checked, using the small ones

#

& wow the big ones are BIG

#

ooooooo wait, could the UI be confuzzled because i'm on 1440p ultrawide

oblique hollow
#

likely

#

adjust UI scaling?

main shuttle
#

yes, & nothing

#

even putting it to a 16:9 ratio left the scroll bar there, so it's not some weird ratio issue

vast bramble
#

well, reality check failed, somehow this closed loop manages to choke on water in under 2 min

oblique hollow
#

mostly likely misconfigured then

#

did you use mk 2 pipe everywhere

vast bramble
#

checking for 2 days. yeah, I even rebuilt all pipes. in fact it does it even if I underclock one of the machines and create deficit

oblique hollow
#

Then theres a major math error in all likelyhood

#

Maybe insufficient bauxite for the one refinery

#

causing the water to back up

#

hmm, exactly 780/min

vast bramble
#

no, they all are full with bauxite

thorny cedar
#

and u dont valve i guess

vast bramble
#

no valves

oblique hollow
#

got an image of the actual setup ingame?

vast bramble
#

greenish is the loop, blue is fresh

thorny cedar
#

and what side is clocked up?

vast bramble
#

both

#

wait. read choked. it's technically 2 separate loops and both choke

thorny cedar
#

yea thats what i mean sorry mb

thorny cedar
#

and all the sloppy alumina are chocked up with alum solution aswell?

vast bramble
#

yes, everything is filled to max on everything

#

can't be rounding or something like that because it happens very fast, in under 2 min after a flush

thorny cedar
#

and if everything is clocked and you flush the inner aluma solution system it goes full again and stops again

#

after everything stalled

oblique hollow
#

oh you are on experimental

#

broken pipe indicators arent really all that helpful with pipe issues

#

connect a large buffer to the side of the byproduct pipe and see how fast it fills up

#

connect it so the alumina refinery still gets water

#

im more surprised these really weird conveyor lifts work for the coke

vast bramble
#

interesting. the buffer slowly fills up, everything works, but I connected the buffer only to one loop, but the other one doesn't choke up yet too. but the buffer gets ~100m3 per min

oblique hollow
#

remember to flush all alumina and byproduct water

#

so there is no excess initially

#

Oh, speaking of broken indicators.... New patch!

#

That should help

vast bramble
#

it's some dark sorcery. the large buffer filled up in 20 min, and while everything worked until then it heavily struggled with water as if the buffer was prioritized. then I placed buffer like this. nothing goes there (< 20m3 sloshes at the bottom) and there is no sign of choking yet. w the actual f

Desktop_2023_08_25_12_28_26_055.png
#

the moment i cut the (empty) pipe to the buffer, the system begins to fill up. the best part is that the buffer is only on one of the loops but they both react to it synchronously

main shuttle
#

dumb question time: is it more space efficient to store things like liquid biofuel in cans/containers or in fluid buffers

wind spade
vast bramble
#

ah, spoke too soon. revisited a hour later and the buffer is full again

#

guess I'll abandon reuse and sink the water

wind spade
vast bramble
#

the buffer was for testing. the original system used no buffers, valves, fresh water, nothing, still overflows the closed loops somehow

#

yeah, that coal deposit nearby I had no use for was there for a reason... I just hoped to abandon this practice and the math looked solid

vapid gorge
vast bramble
#

no, closed loop with only waste water

vapid gorge
#

as in 100 water comes out 100 water goes back in? yeah that should work

vast bramble
#

i hoped for that. expected to fail due to slow accumulation of water due to rounding. didn't expect it to choke in 2 min

vapid gorge
#

well you probably need to make sure you don't have a repeating decimal yeah. but should work fine

vast bramble
#

it overflows even if I downclock one of the machines and create deficit. like it generates water out of thin air. I'm at it for 50h+, doesn't make sense at all

vapid gorge
#

unless you're on a server and something weird is happening my money is that you didn't build it right or make a small mistake. I've seen a number of people set up systems like that just fine

vast bramble
#

i'm torn between burning it down and sinking another week to figure it out πŸ™‚ maybe I should rebuild it all from scratch, although I redid the pipes twice already

vapid gorge
#

can you share any top down shots of the whole layout?

#

its nearly impossible to diagnose pipe stuff w/o images

vast bramble
#

i posted 3 pics above about 3.5 hours ago

vapid gorge
vast bramble
vapid gorge
#

I thought you said you had repeating decimals in there?

vast bramble
#

no I said that I expected a problem from these decimals as I don't trust precision of pipes and never tried this before. but even if there would be a problem it would be slow, not a complete choke in 2 min in both independent loops

vapid gorge
#

where is it getting choked?

vast bramble
#

with the reused water

vapid gorge
#

as in the refinery using the waste water isn't using it fast enough?

vast bramble
#

yes

vapid gorge
#

and if you open up the waste refinery UI what is happening to it's product? is it blocked?

vast bramble
#

its product goes to the refinery that gives it water, so once that refinery can't get rid of the water anymore, it stops taking the alumina solution either

vapid gorge
#

so all the pipes are full of water and they are choked? you could see if a quick flush of hte waste water pipe fixes it? but you're basically doing the diagram I linked and that's tested. So sounds like something was built wrong

vast bramble
#

flushing everything solves the problem of course, for 2 min. I added a large buffer to one of the loops for testing and it eventually fills up. what doesn't make sense at all that I add buffer to one of the 2 separate loops, but it prevents choking in both until the buffer is full

vapid gorge
#

buffers delay or mask problems, they don't fix them. So not surprising

#

or create them

vapid gorge
vast bramble
#

didn't try pumps or valves as I usuallly try to avoid them. holes are just to get between floors until I finish. aluminum is just a small part of much bigger production (batteries)

vapid gorge
#

don't use valves - the pumps just help keep directionality in case some back flow is making the water producing refs stutter

vapid gorge
vast bramble
#

hm, I thought you mean some foundation holes of which there are actually none on the pics. what other holes there you refer?

#

there is no clipping at all

vapid gorge
oblique hollow
#

thats freshwater tho

vast bramble
#

it's fresh water coming from water extractors

vapid gorge
#

but yeah - if that is a floor hole get rid of it and any others, put in the pumps at those points, powered, and flush the waste pipes

oblique hollow
#

honestly, try clocking the fresh supply refineries down by half

#

and see what happens

vapid gorge
#

sure it's waste water - but that makes me sus that others could exist πŸ˜›

vapid gorge
oblique hollow
#

who cares about bauxite

vapid gorge
#

then you make less scrap πŸ˜›

oblique hollow
#

this is making 0 right now

#

cant get any worse

vast bramble
#

actually yes, I tried to downclock the loops but not the fresh ones, gonna try it

vapid gorge
#

sure but better to figure out what the issue is - unless they don't care about a smooth running system

oblique hollow
#

that just makes the alumina solution back up, which blocks the recycling refinery from consuming water

vast bramble
#

ah yes. that wasn't well thought out

vast bramble
#

adding pumps doesn't change anything. downclocking the fresh water refineries seem to slow down the process, now it chokes after 5 min

oblique hollow
#

turn it down a lot

#

so the recycling refineries can deal with all the water

vapid gorge
#

sounds like there's a significant fault in the build soz :\

thorn remnant
#

someone omg

image.png
#

how do i do this

wind spade
#

one splitter

#

split into three belts

thorn remnant
#

?

wind spade
#

merge the 5.3333 assemblers into one belt
split that one belt into three using a single splitter

thorn remnant
#

but that aint equal to those other numbers

wind spade
#

that doesn't matter

#

if a belt gets more than it needs, it backs up, rest of resources overflow to the other belts

thorn remnant
#

ohh yeahhhh

#

tyty

median heath
#

Repeating decimals 😭

vast bramble
#

was the bug where splitters/mergers retain a piece of the old belt when you upgrade it ever fixed? I always rebuild everything, maybe just wasting time

cinder silo
#

I don't know if that's been fixed, likely in U8 thanks to the engine change, I do remember the 1 metre pieces of mk1 bringing my systems to a halt in the past.

vast bramble
#

wish there was a tool for measuring belts throughput. i just found a piece of mk4 belt on a mk5 bus, but not before I rebuilt a couple hundred of mergers. and the piece wasn't even in them

vapid gorge
#

it's pretty easy to see belts stuttering?

wind spade
#

(also don't build busses πŸ˜› )

vapid gorge
#

why would you need a couple hundred mergers in one section?

elfin nebula
#

bad design

vast bramble
#

not in one section, i just slowly moved through the building looking for the problem πŸ™‚

vapid gorge
#

if they aren't all connected in one system it shouldn't be hard to find blockages

vast bramble
#

it's a 20^3 foundations battery factory that produces everything on site and when things start to crumble it's not clear at first what caused it. when I downclocked the alumina section it manages to run long enough to run out of coke, which eventually revealed a problem in plastic section that provided hor for coke etc

vapid gorge
#

look at machine lights and click on their ui. throughput meter wouldn't help there

teal summit
#

just unlocked tractors, is it worth using these to transport to my central storage? here are my thoughts:

  1. I don't have smart splitters yet, so I'd need 1 truck stop for each material I'm gathering
  2. I only have mk 2 conveyors, so even if I did have smart splitters, central storage would load too slowly
  3. tractors make no sense
#

ig my question is whether its worth to use tractors or just wait for trains

vapid gorge
#

depends on you - but 'tractors make no sense' suggests you need ot lean more about them

vapid gorge
teal summit
#

for example, if theres something i need to research in the MAM, its easier to just grab it from like 3 feet away instead of running across the map because i ran out

thorny cedar
#

there is a different type of storage just imagine you put down a dron port and request an item from droneport "super computers" and the drone brings you 9 stack supercomputers wherever you are within 2 or 3 minutes all u need is power and you could utilize this as a central storage aswell

#

well you need some batteries tho

teal summit
thorny cedar
#

well yea thats the lesser evil

#

if you go within the range of i produce 30 of everything or more you go in the range of you dont have the bauxit for drones anymore 😦 and i feel so sad about it

thorn remnant
#

imagine yall have 8 smelters that output 30 each, so in total that 240per/min
and u need to put them in a constructor that need 12per/min input. how should i do this

median heath
wind spade
junior slate
#

less if you overclock

thorn remnant
#

yes

thorny cedar
#

i said everything

wind spade
median heath
#

Non-consumable items worth storing:

Plate, RIP, Beam, EIB
Pipe, Rod, ECR
CSheet, ASheet, Plastic, Rubber
Frame, HMF, FMF
Wire, QW, Cable
Crystal, Osc
CB, HSC, AIL
Rotor, Motor, Turbo
Comp, RCU, Super
Casing, Cooling
Concrete, Silica

32 in total.

#

Bauxite being a limiting factor is circumvented by making smarter recipe choices.

thorny cedar
#

so no turbo motors?

median heath
#

Rotor, Motor, Turbo

#

50/min

thorny cedar
#

and how much bauxit do u have left?

median heath
#

None, because Battery production is 200-something/min

thorny cedar
#

im sorry 120 batteries need ~350 bauxit/minute and i was thinking about 1000 batteries to utelize for this plan so not much bauxit left that was my way of tought even if you produce aluminum friendliest rec i cant see 50 of this with the batteries i had in mind

median heath
#

1000 Batteries/min is going to be the "issue" there. That is a very ambitious number.

#

And if that is the priority, then yes, you will not be able to make other things in larger amounts.

thorny cedar
#

i wish for an alt battery rec

#

i dont care if it take 50 limestone per battery i would take it πŸ˜„

wind spade
#

1000/min is pretty high tbh

median heath
#

Classic is the alt. And it's very good.

thorny cedar
#

could prob run 120 drones with it

#

+-

median heath
#

Most people's plans call for less than 100.
Ambitious plans usually call for less than 300.

#

1000 is an extreme outlier.

snow dove
#

i did 200 so i’d never worry about it

thorny cedar
#

i produce 240 atm

#

and i use 238

brittle kayak
#

I make 30/min and that's enough to sink one or two, occasionally.

fossil gulch
#

With Classic Batteries your limiting factor will be sulfur.

# 
  Alclad Aluminum Sheet
    Aluminum Ingot
      Electrode - Aluminum Scrap*
        Sloppy Alumina*
          Bauxite
          Water
        Petroleum Coke
          Heavy Oil Residue*
            Crude Oil
      Cheap Silica*
        Raw Quartz
        Limestone
    Pure Copper Ingot*
      Copper Ore
      Water
  Recycled Plastic*
    Diluted Fuel*
      Heavy Oil Residue*
        Crude Oil
      Water
  Iron Wire*
    Pure Iron Ingot*
      Iron Ore
      Water
  Sulfur

Recipe 'Classic Battery' makes 4560.0 Battery per minute, consuming:

Bauxite             5985.0     / 9780      61.2%
Caterium Ore        0.0        / 11040     0.0%
Coal                0.0        / 30120     0.0%
Copper Ore          1064.0     / 28860     3.69%
Iron Ore            4092.31    / 70380     5.81%
Limestone           7125.0     / 52860     13.48%
Raw Quartz          4275.0     / 10500     40.71%
Sulfur              6840.0     / 6840      100.0%
Uranium             0.0        / 2100      0.0%
Crude Oil           4018.5     / 11700     34.35%
Nitrogen Gas        0.0        / 12000     0.0%```
#

You could max out Uranium and Plutoniun Fuel Rod production and still have enough resources to make 2488 Battery per minute.

thorny cedar
#

yes if you max out on batteries

#

but u dont need that much sulf for anything else

elfin nebula
#

batteries are 960 doable for us

thorny cedar
#

yea and tbh u dont need the turbofuel

elfin nebula
#

or dont need the nuclear

#

but its about having fun building, so

thorny cedar
#

yea so one or another is obsolete

#

so sulfur is there plenty

#

but as usual alu not πŸ˜„

#

bring me a alt battery rec i need 1 alu ingot 2 rubber 5 screws 2 sulf acid i would take it plz

versed violet
thorny cedar
#

i got the expl, ammo and all the space elv parts and very important portable miners aswell!

#

and beacons just because

versed violet
#

[I think this one needs update]

ITEMS_equipment_and_biomats.jpg
vast bramble
#

something just occured to me. is it a bad idea to use side belts on a manifold slower than the main belt? because the main one seem to slow down to the speed of the slower ones

wind spade
#

main belt doesn't "slow down", just the items do

#

and there's no harm in having belt faster than needed

#

and actually, by using slower side belts, you prolong the time it takes for the manifold to fill

vast bramble
#

i always used the slowest possible belt for smoother movement but feels like it creates problems

wind spade
#

smoother movement is only for visual stuff, doesn't actually help or hurt in the game

#

slower belts won't create "problems", just make you wait a bit longer until manifold runs at 100%

vast bramble
#

ok, must be something else that causes uneven distribution

wind spade
#

well manifolds start uneven until they stabilise

vapid gorge
#

some manifolds take ages to spin up, especially if theres wire or screws involved

main shuttle
#

yea, i tend to have a container on standby to pre-fill

vast bramble
#

so I wonder, can I put an overflow junction on my reused water loop to dump that magic little excess to a coal generator or I'm better off to dump the whole thing and use fresh everywhere (then I need to build a lot of generators and a lot of water extractors, doubt ficsit would approve such a waste)

oblique hollow
#

sure you can

#

its a valid method

vast bramble
#

nice. not great but could have been worse

true junco
#

If your waste water is consumed in a generator, its definitely not wasted

vast bramble
#

yeah but it's like a pedal generator on a spaceship when this facility already powers itself with 4 GW from fuel byproduct

supple belfry
frosty owl
#

Slow belts means more machines starting sooner, thus more items produced during warmup, BUT longer warmup time overall
(Warmup time: time needed for all machines to reach 100%)

median heath
#

Or just prefeed and skip all of that πŸ˜‰

supple belfry
#

I mean…a full input hopper on a machine feels like a weird thing to worry about, but hey, you do you!

elfin nebula
#

also avoidable radiation

#

so wouldnt ever use for that

#

you could get a production and power plant without radiation

snow dove
#

nuclear is one pretty commonly accepted time when load balancing is a good idea

wind spade
wind spade
elfin nebula
#

thats a form if balancing

#

since its not 1:1 but 1 to 3 and so on, so needs a si gle splitter or merger

winter wave
#

Do u need mk2 pipes for 8 coal gens to 3 extractors or should I do 4 and do 2 extractors for 4 coal genrators and not link them

snow dove
#

use two pipes to feed the 8 coal gens

cinder silo
#

Like this.

3-8_coal_plant.png
winter wave
#

Ok

#

Also that looks good nice job

cinder silo
#

When you spam coal, try one of these.

Stacked_64_coal.png
elfin nebula
winter wave
cinder silo
sweet niche
#

so i have 16 overclocked manufacturers and I was wondering how I could use the calculator to put how many buildings I have instead of selecting an output

#

i want them to produce uranium fuel rods using the alternate recipe

elfin nebula
#

uh, just calc the output yourself and put that in the tool

oblique hollow
#

every calc for satis works with /min values since machine values can be adjusted.
just make a sum of how much those 16 manufacturers produce

vast bramble
#

what's the proper way to deal with resource wells? I have 3 oil wells (at 200%) 240+240+120 connected together and then to 20 plastic refineries through one mk2 pipe. Should be a perfect fit but one of the wells (varies depending on how they are connected together) seem to struggle with output, stays under 80% efficiency, and the last 2-3 refineries at the end of the pipe are out of oil most of the time (where does that oil ends up though?)

#

The other 3 wells (120+120+240) work perfect and their 16 refineries are always at 100%. Should I stay under the pipe's capacity?

elfin nebula
#

600 pipes are sensitive to everything

snow dove
#

Usually you gotta loop manifolds that use mk2 pipes at near max throughput

#

I personally just don’t deal with that and use a bit under the max throughput

elfin nebula
#

yeah, actually maxing them can work, but often dont

snow dove
#

Usually it’s more of a pain to utilize the full throughput

vast bramble
#

I had no problem with normal oil nodes at max capacity but wells seem to work different, with variable speed?

snow dove
#

Nope

#

basically, you made a mistake with the well that you didn’t with your normal oil node

#

what exactly that mistake is we can’t know without more info

vast bramble
#

if I connect them like this, the middle one is at < 80%, the other two are 100% (don't mind the pipes on the right)

Desktop_2023_08_26_21_08_17_394.png
#

in this configuration the top one is at 80%. and so on

Desktop_2023_08_26_21_04_39_052.png
#

after they are connected it's just a manifold of 20 refineries

#

same arrangement with the other 3 wells except that there it's 480 oil to 16 refineries and no problems

Desktop_2023_08_26_21_16_37_346.png
#

easiest would be to split into 3 pipes with extra space in each of them, i guess. just curious how it works

oblique hollow
#

btw, ill be testing your aluminum refinery setup myself

#

to see if anything happens on my end

vast bramble
#

i started to think that it's just my pc performance issue. because if i flush pipes and go to different part of the world and come back after 20+ min, it still works. in my presence it breaks fast

#

not to mention all these other issues. haven't built so much machinery at one place before

oblique hollow
#

usually im inclined to say "that cannot happen, the game tries everything to prevent performance of machines degrading under heavy load"

#

this is what the recycled water pipe should look like if it runs well

image.png
#

that fact that yours runs full in 2 minutes makes no sense since mine takes 10 minutes to ramp up to 100% efficiency

#

this one just about manages to stay full enough so it can keep making alumina

image.png
vast bramble
#

i need to try to build just this block somewhere far away from anything

thorny cedar
#

i mean it does make no sence even if its slow because of you

#

every machine would be slower

vast bramble
#

not necessarily slower, maybe more weirdness in pipes

thorny cedar
#

i would quadrupel check all my overclock % again πŸ˜„

oblique hollow
#

pipes are threaded seperately from what i know

frosty owl
wind spade
vast bramble
frosty owl
#

Good, testing is good SnuttsGood

rancid fiber
#

Hey guys

I'm not sure what channel to use for this, but I think this is closer so here goes.

satisfactory-plannet.net is no longer working and I feel orphaned. Is there any other tool that accomplishes the same task of calculating builds? I know about Satisfactory Calculator but it feels a little... clumsy.

median heath
#

Tools.

#

Should have been using Tools from the beginning πŸ˜‰

rancid fiber
#

Thanks!

vast bramble
#

wish I could see efficiency as a heatmap or IR vision without checking every machine

winter panther
#

LOL

#

Maximum efficiency

vast bramble
#

and a loud alarm if something falls apart to 99% πŸ™‚

winter panther
#

The second something gets overfilled or underfilled

#

Your whole power network just shuts down

rancid fiber
#

Good luck restarting that 🫠

fair glen
#

Working on a Motor factoy to produce x10 rotors, motors, and stators

image.png
barren elm
#

I just throw the "share" url from the calculator onto the sign and call it a day

elfin nebula
#

just to say 9.3333333333 is a problem

snow dove
elfin nebula
#

depends on the build

#

a manifolds can cover that a bit. load balanced will stutter every now and then

#

well, prefilling the load balanced one would also help

barren elm
#

You could also just... set it to 9.3334 and forget about it for the rest of eternity

queen elbow
#

hey all, is there a consistent table somewhere that, for T8+ purposes specifically takes all items with alt recipes (example steel ingots) and says what the most raw resource efficient is in terms of just the resource intake itself and not power efficiency?

for steel ingots specifically as an example, I know that for recipes like compacted coal fluctuate that number severely because you're introducing different resources and it becomes a lot harder to quantify.

but it would be nice to have a general table that says "this is generally the most efficient in an optimal scenario where you have access to everything and are not limited by any specific resource constraints"

barren elm
#

It's funny you mentioned steel as your example, because it's one of the examples of a recipe where there truly is no best (only a worst, the default)

#

Generally you're rewarded for using more exotic ingredients, but where you choose to spend those exotic ingredients is up to you

#

I think what most people do is figure out an end goal (eg I want to make 50 of the rocket engines per min) and work backwards from there

elfin nebula
#

for steel ingots specifically as an example, I know that for recipes like compacted coal fluctuate that number severely because you're introducing different resources and it becomes a lot harder to quantify.
also its not that easy.
the maximum possible amount of steel ingots in the game looks like this

image.png
#

and thats for many things, the alt recipe depends on the area you build and what resources you have. its rare that a single one is the best. and they have interrelations with all other recipes

#

so when you use at one place an alt using more of one resource, at another place an alt using less of that resource will equalize it

#

so any table is only true when you know the exact situation it is for

#

some alts just have more usecases and some have less. rare that one is always better or worse

#

what often is the case is, that the default recipes are worse

#

oh, unexpected. its not pure iron

#

let me fix

#

thats maximum possible steel

image.png
#

limited by iron, coal, oil and sulfur

#

since all steel needs iron, you can only max it, with using all three alts with sulfur / coal / coke

#

because the other stuff maxes before

#

amazing how clean the numbers are considering it uses all available resources ohisee

barren elm
#

And then it gets even crazier because you have a ton of different options on how you spend that steel

#

Do you use steel screws instead of pure iron, do you mix in some oil to boost your iron plate production etc etc

#

None of the answers are wrong and it all just depends what you want to achieve

elfin nebula
#

also really limited, since we already used all iron and oil

#

considering freeing stuff you need otherwise you see fast, that you dont need coal. so remove the coke.
sulfur is quite rare, so remove the compacted coal.
result is solid steel in most cases

#

its the same as the default but better

#

so almost no reason to not use it

#

and the others depend on the situation that you dont need the resources somewhere else

strong lotus
teal summit
#

hello team, just unlocked steel stuff and only have 1 coal node nearby. I'm currently trying to decide if I should use that coal node to power a tractor/bus station setup for bring things to central storage, or using it to create steel products. Right now im using belts to get everything to central storage and theres so much spaghetti and I think itd be nice to clean things up with tractors, but at the same time I don't want to waste the coal node cuz its the only one nearby ish

oblique hollow
#

a tractor will use about... eeh 12/min coal for a 1000 m trip

#

meaning you can pretty easily replace a bunch of low throughput belts with one tractor. Mind you that the truck station has 2 belt inputs and outputs only. You can make a wheeled vehicle drive trough multiple stations however.

vagrant rivet
#

later in game you will switch to MK5 Belts and use trains/vehicles only for grounding of the next fab

misty lark
#

all the pipes before after my junction are refusing to take in oil, the pipe before the junction is increasing and decreasing over and over

#

pipe before

image.png
vapid gorge
misty lark
#

this work?

image.png
#

the 3 pipes just go to refineries

pine inlet
vapid gorge
misty lark