math-and-meta

[median oar]

theres MORE of them bruh

ok just. my bad. thanks guys

[oblique hollow]

yippie

🎉

[median oar]

i was actually going insane lmaoo 💀

almost 200 hours in a game called satisfactory and im still having issues like this where its just slightly unsatisfying. god damn me.

[dim spire]

Numbers question/scenario. Pure node of substance exists. With a mk3 miner, that produces 480/min normally. Now, if one were insane, one could overclock that miner and get 1200/min...but that is pointless, yes? Because a Mk5 conveyor only does 780, and a splitter splits evenly. So even if you ran a mk5 out of the miner into the splitter, you're still not getting the full 1200, right?

[median heath]

Yes.

[dim spire]

Huzzah. I understood.

[median heath]

Been that way for years. They have the fix for it internally but are holding onto it for the time being.

[true junco]

Because the fix is scalling down miners. 😆 (j/k i have no clue)

[elfin nebula]

well, mk3 miners are large enough to just output two belts

[true junco]

That might be the solution. Tho i wonder how they will make such a thing run... will it always attempt an even split? Or will it favor 1 outlet like the ISCs do?

[median heath]

Or they make ISCs do the even split when they make the mk3 do the even split 😉

[dim spire]

I doubt I'll ever need that much....I'm just sizing up and trying to future-proof my first location atm. I have access to 5 pure iron nodes....I doubt I'll find reason (here) to need more than 3900 Iron ore/min

[elfin nebula]

you sure will

[open patrol]

question.

anyone got notes on throughputs offered by vehicle transport?

truck, train, and drones specifically.

[oblique hollow]

trucks and tractors: can fully supply the highest tier belts you connect to the station
trains: #satisfactory message
drones:.... dont think anyone has done math for them?

[deft lichen]

noone has done math for drones because the ports tell it to you

Unlike trucks and trains, the numbers are exactly as listed, not just an imprecise measurement

[median heath]

Truck Stops can supply the full amount of x2 highest belt as McGalleon said.
Drones can fully supply x1 highest belt, depending on what you're shipping.

Trains... I can vomit all the math at you if you want.

[open patrol]

so i just needa figure out the time travelled for trucc then.

trains, that'll be another time but greatly appreciated.

[median oar]

thoughts on this kind of design? is it optimal (its not quite. 1:1 to the actual game but the concept is there)

this is for something like, idk, copper sheets

[median heath]

Define what you are considering "optimal"

[median oar]

15, 15, 15, 15 into 30, 30 then into 60 then devide into 20, 20 and 20 for copper sheets

[median oar]

no under/over clocking

so just like

every bit of resource is used

[median heath]

You can't OC mergers and splitters.

[median oar]

fuck i just realised how vague the drawing is

green = smelter
blue = merger
yellow = splitter
red = constructor

[median heath]

Works fine.

[median oar]

again this isnt like up to scale with the actual game, but just as a numbers thing

[rigid turtle]

yup, works just fine

you could put the mergers all in one lien to make it a bit more comapct

[median oar]

right ok thanks, i made my entire factory like this and only NOW wondering how efficient it is 😅

[median oar]

well yeah but i like the kind of tightning and expanding look of it

[median heath]

Layout efficiency isn't really a metric as resources are infinite, so everything will get everywhere eventually and on time.

[median oar]

i guess, but just as a way of combining totals and then splitting them into multiple constructors that looks nice, that is what i came up with

plus this way i dont have to oc anything

[median heath]

If you're just trying to split between things, manifold has the same efficiency as balancer.

[median oar]

the.. what?.. is there a pin im missing

[snow dove]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=manifold

[snow dove]

!wikisearch load_balancer

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=load_balancer

[median heath]

See how all the splitters are just in sequence?
Manifold.

[median oar]

OH THATS WHAT ITS CALLED

i have this exact thing on basically everything

my factory is very.. linear

[median heath]

And yet suddenly you are changing it?

[median oar]

well no

i have a manifold for raw recource inputs (ore, water, oil)

[rigid turtle]

i assume they mean basically everything not including copper sheet production lol

[median oar]

pff naaaah

[median heath]

I am now assuming they mean raw resources, in which case we define "basically everything" differently.

[rigid turtle]

well, now that they said that, of course it is

[snow dove]

you can do it with two mergers one splitter

[rigid turtle]

but then it won't be symmetrical 😛

[snow dove]

yes it will

[rigid turtle]

oh i see what you mean

but i don't think that'll give the same shrinking/growing satisfaction they want lol

[median oar]

yes

[snow dove]

sorry for the god awful way i did that, mobile moment

[median oar]

doesnt hit as hard

plus doesnt it make it ever so slightly more long

[snow dove]

no

[rigid turtle]

idts

[snow dove]

same length

[median oar]

oh shit my bad

[median heath]

Instead of doing this:

Do this:

[rigid turtle]

#math-and-meta message

not as satisfying :P

[snow dove]

wasn’t entirely sure that would fit with constructors

[median oar]

where can i see pictures i take from ingame

this is my current copper layout

[rigid turtle]

why does the bottom conveyor go the long way around 🤔

[median oar]

because i cant move an ore node?

[median heath]

Not with that attitude you can't 😉

[median oar]

this is my concrete and quickwire

and this is my steel

and its all runnin' on 100% uptime with no over or underclocking 🔥

just shy of 600 mw

[vast knoll]

Documents/My Games/FactoryGame/Screenshots

[median oar]

oh shit thanks

is 24 coal gens overkill for tier 4

[bleak coral]

no such thing as too much power, only too little

[vast knoll]

my t4 operates on 16 generators

but I plan to rework a lot of stuff

[median heath]

I build 48 in T3-4, so no.

[median oar]

good lord

[median heath]

If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong.

[median oar]

well ive recently moved and doubled the amount of coal gens i had

moved em to the fungi area since theres a lotta water and coal, found oil 'long the way

[dawn mesa]

bro i love your pipe design its original

[opaque dirge]

I have now gotten to manufacturers but they just need so much resources and they're so large its just awful to deal with. I have no more resources anywhere close to me and I'm currently trying to unlock trains

[sand epoch]

Move

[opaque dirge]

THen i'll lose the resources where i am now

[sand epoch]

Why?

They arent going to vanish.

[dry mist]

How would splitting fluids into fifths work?

[sand epoch]

You split it 5 times...?

[median heath]

Don't think about pipes in terms of belts.

[dry mist]

That’s fair.

But what if I used valves for the pipes?

already*

[sand epoch]

Valves suck

[dry mist]

If I have a bunch of pipes running upwards far into the sky, with each one getting higher and higher (with pumps), backflow wouldn’t hurt, right?

[median heath]

The only time you should use valves is if you're making a VOP.

[dry mist]

Ok

[median heath]

If you don't know what a VOP is, then you don't ever need valves 🤷‍♂️

[dry mist]

Fair enough

[vapid gorge]

back flow will happen at hte machines that consume thefluid
fluids balance themselves - don't use valves

[sly bear]

im pretty sure the 2 mergers 4 steps back is better cause of the 90 degree angles

[true junco]

People dont even use valves IRL for the things they try to use them for in the game.

Doesnt help that the valve in SF is a combination "check valve" and "Flow regulator" for some reason.

[median heath]

Thank you 💛

[oblique hollow]

i approve the choice of the color yellow

great contrast to the black of the generators and the blue of water

[median heath]

Yellow/White is my default swatch.

[supple mural]

Valves do suck

Oh, mobile moment, responded to something half a mile up the page

[dry mist]

So I set up a sloppy alumina + aluminum scrap factory. I’m using 780 Bauxite and 780 water. How would I be able to make this work? I currently have one long Mk2 pipe that connects to the input of the first 4 refineries and the output of the other 4 refineries. The outputs produce 468 water and I have 312 water inputting from water extractors through one side of the giant Mk2 pipe line. Currently, the refinery closest to where the 312 water is coming from sometimes doesn’t get enough water. How could I fix my pipe system for this? Should I send in the 312 water to a different section of the pipe (like into the middle instead of into the sides)?

[median heath]

Personally wouldn't set it up until you have Electrode to pair with Sloppy.

[dry mist]

#screenshots message

[dry mist]

Oof

I do want to finish this one without electrode, though

[median heath]

It's the best pairing 🤷‍♂️

It's also something that fits in a BP 😄

[dry mist]

ah, fair enough

But I think I have figured out a solution to my current setup, though.

[median heath]

Nice!

[dry mist]

Yeah, I'm not used to using Blueprints or coke for anything

But thanks for the info

[median heath]

Coke is such a good resource.

Sloppy + Electrode is tied for "best way to make Scrap"

Coke Steel is amazing.

Burning Coke in Coal Gens for your initial Plastic/Rubber setup makes them ADD power to your grid instead of draining it.

[dry mist]

Oh, yeah, I figured that out. I'm just not used to using it as a resource. I mainly use my oil for fuel-based power currently and plastic and rubber.

[median heath]

Crapton of oil available on the map, so it is very worth trying to consider it as one!

[dry mist]

Alright, thanks. I’ll try to use it more.

[vast knoll]

It's more than my entire current power grid produces

[elfin nebula]

then build a power plant first

i have the same situation, heavy frames needs more power than we produce, so power plant first

[vast knoll]

I would love to build a fuel powerplant

But I'd rather kill myself than make the heavy modular frames manually

So it will be a very temporary coal plant

[fierce ruin]

you also dont have shoot for 10/m off the get go. you could scale that back a bit probably

[vast knoll]

It's going to be the first proper factory

[fierce ruin]

until your next factory after this 😉

[vast knoll]

yeah lol

[elfin nebula]

i need like 11k semi manual for 900 fuel generators ...
im on the last 1k xD

[fierce ruin]

what do you need the 10 heavy frames a min for?

[vast knoll]

My inventory

• the achievment

[snow dove]

i do like 15 to storage, that's just cause i felt like it

[fierce ruin]

i mean your going to need all of them its not that much extra power. whats that 20 or 30 burners?

[rustic patio]

1 stack for each item 💪

[vast knoll]

Me after bulding one belt (I need to go get more materials to build more)

[rustic patio]

wdym?

[vast knoll]

One stack of iron plates

You can build like 60 meters of belt

[rustic patio]

i mean one stack of each item per minute

[vast knoll]

oh

dear god

[rustic patio]

thats my end goal kinda

[elfin nebula]

thats not possible

[rustic patio]

well, all the useful items

[elfin nebula]

the stack of nuclear pasta would take almost 90 % of all existing copper

[rustic patio]

yes theres a little asterisk at the end i forgor to mention

[elfin nebula]

one stack in general or one stack excess?
for many items one stack production isnt much and you need way more

[snow dove]

i'm assuming 1 stack to send to the storage

[median heath]

Copycat

[snow dove]

and i'm guessing laura meant the 30 nonconsumable items worth storing

[rustic patio]

nOOOo

[elfin nebula]

well these are quite cheap and shouldnt be a problem

[rustic patio]

usually i always mention that i "borrowed" this idea from you

the one time i forget to mention it is the one time u show up. sad

[rustic patio]

fused modulr frames

super computer, turbo motor

[elfin nebula]

the fused frames are easy

super computer is okayish

the turbo motor could be a problem

but you need so few of them that we dont even plan any excess, just producing a few on demand

[vast knoll]

Made a desktop background to remind myself of what I now have to do

[rustic patio]

needs 7499 baucxty

the fmf and TMs

and SMs

[elfin nebula]

heaving any alts?
the frames can benefit from many

[vast knoll]

I have a couple and could hunt for more

[deft lichen]

using defaults past tier 0 is bad

😛

[elfin nebula]

then maybe check them before doing your frames

[vast knoll]

What would you recommend?

[deft lichen]

try solid steel + encased industrial pipe + encased heavy frame for starters

[elfin nebula]

using no alt is rarely the best solution

[vast knoll]

mfw

[elfin nebula]

though you would need to scale that down xD

also i would use steeled frames, but that area is no more coal, so impossible

[deft lichen]

10 is a bad target, causes ugly numbers
do a multiple of 4.5 instead

[elfin nebula]

so your plans depend on the input possibilities

i would recommend stitched plates. either with copper or iron wires

[deft lichen]

also consider steeled frame

some people dislike that one but I like it

[elfin nebula]

yeah as said, when you have enough coal you can double steel it

i just cant use steel for both frames

[median heath]

WAAAAAAAIIIIITTT

[median heath]

So you know how this annoying bar is always in the way when building?

[deft lichen]

can't you make it smaller in settings

[median heath]

TA-DAHHHHH

[deft lichen]

or just show missing materials

[true junco]

Stitched plates with Fused Wire. 💪

[deft lichen]

showing missing materials seems bad, I want to know I'll run out of a part before I will

[elfin nebula]

there is no caterium in the area, so no fusing here

[true junco]

Did you only just discover that you can holster the build info?

[median heath]

"Holster"?

[true junco]

I hit the H key and the build/dismantle info goes away. Its the same key that holsters a weapon.

[median heath]

Are you on U8?

[true junco]

No sir

[median heath]

Yeah, you can't do that anymore on U8 😛

H is bound to nudge mode.

[deft lichen]

can't you separate the binds

[true junco]

Hmmm. Dang. So what hides the info now?

[median heath]

Toggling photo mode 😄

Just double-tap P and it goes away.

[deft lichen]

any chance you could try this? @median heath

just curious

never knew holstering hid the info

[median heath]

I don't fuck with keybinds out of fear, so no, I will not be trying that.

[true junco]

Wait. So its gone when you leave photo mode? Lol. Great. I loved being able to toggle the info away... i will be very annoyed if you cant otherwise...

Tho seriously. Why the hell is all that info in the middle of the screen anyways? Would be fine if it was just way closer to the top or bottom imo.

[elfin nebula]

out of fear
i rebound like everything and dont know why you wouldnt

[true junco]

I rebind a few things. I know U8 has changed a bunch of stuff so ill have to look at it when i switch.

[median heath]

Some things in this game are secretly bound to other things.

So messing with keybind A unknowingly fucks with keybind B.

[elfin nebula]

didnt find any so far

[median heath]

Example: If you change the scroll direction for swapping in-hand items, it also changes every other scroll direction.
Main issue with this is you have to relearn how to build because everything now rotates in the opposite direction.

[tall storm]

What’s your hours on this game?

[elfin nebula]

thats to be expected and wont call that secretly

[tall storm]

I see you in here all the time

[median heath]

Couple thousand, why?

[tall storm]

Idk

[median heath]

Some people irrationally fear small spiders and we don't judge them for it.
I am allowed to irrationally fear changing keybinds without being judged 😭

[elfin nebula]

like, when rebinding stuff the same button still is used for the same things, its just another one.
would be weird when you split that when changing

[fierce ruin]

i tried it i didn't like it for that reason, i make my bar really tiny

i keep the ui off most of the time unless im building

im not a fan of the hudOS anyways, but you know FICSIT always cutting corners, contracting that work out ot meta and whatnot

[true junco]

It would be nice to be able to micromanage the heck out of your keybinds, so long as it was very clear what you were doing when going thru the options. Might end up with a very messy interface in the menu, but if its locked behind an "advanced keybindings" check box so most folks can just choose not to mess with it, that would be fine imo.

[fierce ruin]

speaking of keybindings, switching cycle equipment to anything other then scroll wheel does not work, bad programming

[deft lichen]

the U8 keybind changes seem messy to me

[fierce ruin]

my mouse wheel is broken on my fav corsair mouse and refuse to replace it.

[true junco]

Which is messy? The default changes or the options and menu?

[deft lichen]

if I want to rebind all uses of a key to a different key, I now need to change it in 3 places instead of one

[true junco]

Ah. So the menu and functionality of the menu.

[fierce ruin]

also rotate with key would be nice if we are talking about keybindings. for accessiblity, my hand was broken and disabled, and its hard to scroll with the wheel

[deft lichen]

it also broke some oddities which I got used to, like pressing Q in dismantle mode now opens the menu directly, previously, it would only exit dismantle mode

[fierce ruin]

omg that drives me crazy rn

[deft lichen]

I'm used to entering by F and exiting by Q

[fierce ruin]

same.

now i do the same but use escape too to close the window

such a noob

[agile bobcat]

ive got 20 refineries producing plastic

theres 600 input a minute
each refinery uses 30 a minute
the first 17 are fine, but the last 3 arent producing and are on idle most of the time

[wind spade]

loop the pipe

[agile bobcat]

loop the pipe?

[wind spade]

yeah

[agile bobcat]

(i dont know what that means)

[wind spade]

take the pipe from the end and connect it to the start of the manifold

  +-----------------------+
  |                       |
--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

[agile bobcat]

like this? (orange is what i just added)

[wind spade]

yeah

[agile bobcat]

now the middle bit is slowing down

[wind spade]

switch it off and wait until it fills up completely

full pipes happy pipes

[agile bobcat]

until what fills up completely?

and what do i switch off? the power

[wind spade]

pipes and machines

[agile bobcat]

so just the oil pumps are on?

[wind spade]

just turn off the machines

[agile bobcat]

all the refineries off

kk

[wind spade]

you should always do this when dealing with fluids

[agile bobcat]

first time playing

@wind spade should i flush the heavy oil residue?

[wind spade]

no need

[agile bobcat]

kk

[keen stratus]

the best alternate recipes for aluminium?

[bleak coral]

base recipes have nice ratios
sloppy + electrode has the best bauxite to ingot ratio and eliminates a byproduct
instant scrap shares that same ratio, but needs sulfur for the convenience of doing it in one machine (it also has a nice loopback to the sulfuric acid machines with the water)
pure aluminum ingots allows you to treat quartz/silica as a booster rather than a requirement, so you only use as much as you need/want

[deft lichen]

really all aluminum paths are good, it depends what you goal is

simple setup, using specific resources or general resource efficiency

[dense mulch]

I’m trying to figure out coal for 8 generators it’s working but problem is coal runs out for one scound stops then restarts a secound later. I’m currently splitting 120 into 3 split which splits 3/3/2 then the 2 renter main line with 3rd I keep seeing designs that just have splits per every generator how does that work since by time you get to 8th generator wouldn’t it be less then 15 coal ?

[bleak coral]

sloppy + electrode is my personal preference, because I enjoy the bauxite efficiency, but I feel like will do instant scrap someday just because I'd love to get a closed loop of the water byproduct and the sulfuric acid working

[deft lichen]

that's called a manifold, and they work because once a machine is full, it can't take any more
so once the first generator fills up, it only takes 15/min

balancing should work in your case, it might need some time to get started

balancers allow a setup to start much quicker but take up more room and require thinking to set up

[bleak coral]

splitters don't split rates, they distribute items by rotating through available outputs, so if one is backed up they'll just skip it

rates are just descriptions of averages over time

[dense mulch]

I’ll try manifold since current implementation isn’t working well and thanks

[wind spade]

depends how you define best

[true junco]

Ive settled into Sloppy Electrode Pure...

Since i can make 300 ingots with one BP containing 2 refineries and 4 smelters. The BP uses a lot of Shards, but I have a lot right now, and im playing around with very low machine counts. 😆

[wet flame]

@agile bobcat well you have to do smth with it, else it will clog up. fuel production is a good option

[hollow arrow]

Hello, I'm not a new player, but new to late game. I want to make an aluminum ingot factory with enough production for the rest of the game (just enough to finish the space elevator). Assume I have no aluminum production as of right now, how many aluminum ingots/ minute would be good for the rest of the game?

[wet flame]

base aluminum products, you dont need all thaat much. maybe 120/min or so. but when it comes to processing it into more advanced parts, you'll need a lot more. i'd say better safe than sorry, overall 600 should do the trick

[hollow arrow]

Thanks!

[wet flame]

dont take my word on this, i'm not an expert. if it's not enough, i warned ya

[hollow arrow]

Lol, I don't think there is a correct answer, but some idea of what other people do is helpful

[spiral wigeon]

What’s the best way to deal with weird numbers like these

[rustic patio]

clocking. or change production amount

[true junco]

Look at what you need the Items for. I built a simple compact factory just for the initial aluminum products i need now. Alclad sheets and casings. But next i need to focus on parts for blenders. So, I figure out how much aluminum stuff i need foe those parts and work all that out. Ie. My very next project.

[true junco]

Corrently:
1st I use satisfactory tools.
2nd i adjust the final output products until i get as many round(ish) numbers of machines as possible.
3rd i under/over clock any machines i need to to finalize the lay out.

Used to be:. Round all machine counts up to the nearest whole number. Underclock the last machine on the manifold.

[crisp peak]

Is there something wrong with the manifold and last machine underclock method

[true junco]

Nope. Nothing wrong with it. Works great.

Im just on a kick of building more modular systems.

[crisp peak]

Figured its easy to expand if needed just revert to normal and add more machine

Ah gotcha

[true junco]

Potentially yes. Especially for retro Fitting an early tier set up for mid tier. Ie as you get better belts and miners.

[crisp peak]

Ye im just taking ore for mall items, anything else is getting turned into production

Still completing phase 2

[true junco]

Assuming you left yourself room to do so.

But eventually i found my design skills have improved and i just tear down the old set up. 😆

[crisp peak]

Tier 3

[bleak coral]

For non-expandable systems, if you spread out the underclock you get a bit more of a power save. It's not much, but if it doesn't introduce any precision errors why not?

[true junco]

Power savings are negligible. Build more power.

[crisp peak]

I have a bad habit for perfectionism. Hard to learn games like this cause im always tearing down starter stuff to revise it. Im trying to learn not to get caught up in major overhauls

[bleak coral]

Yeah but if I'm gonna copy-paste or BP anyway, why shouldn't I?

[true junco]

Ie. Underclocking dozens of machines takes longer than underclocking a hand ful. And my manhours are a rarer resource than power in the game.

[bleak coral]

Not really, copy-paste makes it take almost as much time as setting to 100%, only have to change it once

[true junco]

Oh. Because I dont do that either. All my machine manifolds have been built with bluprints. So I set the recipies in the BPM. and I only underclock the last machine after the whole factory is set up. Lol

[bleak coral]

Gotcha

Yeah that's a different workflow

I don't do this for preset BPs either, but those are usually already underclocked a bit for direct feeds anyway

[true junco]

Yeah, it really depends on the purpose of the intended module.

My mass production modules are all single machine typ, single recipe, input and output manifolds, structural and cosmetics, lights and wiring all done.

Each BP is a "Module"

Make a bank of "Modules" by placing them in series up to the capacity of manifolds.

Place parrallel machine banks as needed.

Make connections.

Profit.

[bleak coral]

I like making mini factories, so like instead of just a module of assemblers for modular frames, it's everything to direct feed a 100% mod frame assembler from straight ingots

And then manifold those machine sets

[true junco]

My new design paradigm is:

Find managable machine numbers. Fit as many steps of production into a single BP as I can within an arbitrary "aesthetic" limit.

Make modules that can be placed in line for all stages of production.

Duplicate entire lines until production requirement js met.

[bleak coral]

Takes up more room, but I really like skipping the logistics of moving like 3 different items between different manifolds, and just going straight to a low ppm item

[true junco]

This is why i have a module that makes supercomputers that includes machines for quickwire, AI limiters and Caterium Computers. All in one BP.

[bleak coral]

Dang, I barely did a computer module, super computers gotta be pretty cramped

[true junco]

Amd why i have a single BP that takes in Bauxite, Water and PetroCoke, And spits out Aluminum ngots.

3 assemblers and 2 manufacturers. Very managable numbers too.

[bleak coral]

Ah I shot myself in the foot making the circuit boards in it too, so I also needed the quickwire for them too

It takes cat ingots, copper ingots, plastic, and rubber

So it was 6 assemblers and 1 manufacturer

[true junco]

Yeah. Im importing all the circuitboards from a Silicon Circuit factory.

These are the calcs for the 2 modules used to make Aluminum Ingots.

Im overclocking the heck out of the ingot module. Lol

[hollow arrow]

How do yall power endgame factories, I'm talking at the very end of your playthrough and you just need lots of power. What sources of energy do you use for that?

[rustic patio]

Nuclear

[median heath]

Nuclear.

[rustic patio]

New PFP, nice

[median heath]

👀

[hollow arrow]

So if I go hard on Nuclear, I will not need to waste time with any other energy source

And I will be able to power pretty much anything with nuclear

[median heath]

Max Uranium power is 0.63 TW
You will not need anything more than that.

[hollow arrow]

Sweet

[median heath]

And it's waste-free.

[hollow arrow]

Thanks

[supple belfry]

You’ll need a lot of power to get full nuclear going, and it’s a good idea to have failsafes in place if/when it fails, because it an be fiendish to troubleshoot effectively.

[median heath]

Diluted handles the power part, building it correctly eliminates the "if" of failure 🙂

[pure vortex]

Oh boy I've found my home

Before I start on what I've been working on, a quick question, mainly because I haven't looked. Does a pump operating at low flow rate use the same power as one at higher flowrate? I.e., are the pumps "on" or "off," or does power scale with flow rate as well as headlift?

[deft lichen]

On or off

[pure vortex]

Damnit

[deft lichen]

4 MW when the light is green

[pure vortex]

Well then this entire thing is pointless lol

[median heath]

If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong.

[pure vortex]

Because efficiency is bad? /s

[median heath]

?

[rustic patio]

you underestimate my ability of destroying things

[pure vortex]

I'm fine on power, just looking for fun ways to optimize

[pure vortex]

Well, actually, this isn't true. One of the primary things I've observed from my playthrough is a remarkably stable power graph. At least for me. It's because everything is always running.

But more than that, things scale themselves so that happens

Anyways, where the math/physics/engineering gang at? Anyone good with ODEs?

[fierce ruin]

this one of my play styles too.

[hollow arrow]

Ordinary Differential Equations?

[pure vortex]

Yis

[fierce ruin]

i can solve the proof of Schrödinger's time dependent wave equation, does that count?

[hollow arrow]

It has been a hot minute, but I've taken a laplace transform in my time

[pure vortex]

Fortunately, this ODE uses LTs

[hollow arrow]

You have one now?

[pure vortex]

Mhm, it's based on a model I built for a flow system I built. Predicted values 20+ minutes in advance 🙏

Very simple system, so not crazy coupled equations etc

[fierce ruin]

eevryones so creative

[pure vortex]

Do you know of the mod, Circuitry - Logic gates & More?

[hollow arrow]

No

[pure vortex]

Fantastic mod. Adds full logic system to SF and you can control systems with ease

[hollow arrow]

I'll take a look right now

[fierce ruin]

logic gates in satisfactory o my

[pure vortex]

For example, "Is tank full?" "Yes" "Okay flush tank"

[fierce ruin]

the only time you should flush your tank is when testing a testing manuallyu or going for a bio break. i forget someone sayes this, but if you need logic gates in the game your probably building stuff wrong

[pure vortex]

Or you sucked and got ratios wrong 🥲

[pure vortex]

I mean...

Tell me you don't want that.

[fierce ruin]

im good bro

[snow dove]

i don’t see what that has to do with tank flushing

[pure vortex]

That was an example?

[fierce ruin]

also your factory looks to be running at 41% efficency

[pure vortex]

Yeah wording lol

[median heath]

Looks modded so no. I don't want any part of that.

[pure vortex]

k

[fierce ruin]

👆🏻

[snow dove]

sevrahn is basically a synonym for vanilla

[median heath]

I believe devs make things the way they make them for a reason.

[fierce ruin]

i like mods too, to tool around in an experiment, but for gameplay i play vanilla only. its more challenging.

[pure vortex]

Anyways I used the mod to control a valve on a fluid buffer

[fierce ruin]

🫣

[pure vortex]

Yes, the devs are all-knowing.

[snow dove]

valves and fluid buffers?

[hollow arrow]

What would you need to control that for?

[fierce ruin]

LOL

[pure vortex]

Because I wanted to

[fierce ruin]

i think you need more linear algebra young padawon

[median heath]

Yes. That is the complete wrong conclusion from what I actually said.

[hollow arrow]

Yeah, but why would you need variable flow?

[pure vortex]

Really though, the devs can't think of everything.

[pure vortex]

More of a "will this work" kind of thing tbh

[snow dove]

but what they intentionally put in, they thought of

[fierce ruin]

^^ alot

[pure vortex]

And what about things they didn't think of? Things that mods add

[snow dove]

do the math and see if it’ll work

[pure vortex]

Did, and did (:

[fierce ruin]

like solar panels they didn't think of solar panels or logic gates, because im sure they never player redpower mod before in MC

[snow dove]

this is sarcastic right?

[fierce ruin]

me sarcastic nah

[deft lichen]

Wind power in Mekanism is perfectly balanced, just build a dirt platform at the height limit and run a cable back down

All other power mods are inferior (except Create)

[snow dove]

i need more mods to update to 1.20.1 already

[pure vortex]

Also, this was done using the mod. Maybe a bit more interesting. Self-regulating power system

[snow dove]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

so variable!

why isn’t it a straight line????

[median heath]

Almost like all power used to be self-regulating and then they intentionally removed that...

[pure vortex]

It's keeping a set overhead power

[snow dove]

that sounds horrible

i couldn’t stand having my power graph be variable

also that’s probably a feedback loop

[fierce ruin]

why?

[pure vortex]

Nope

Damped out enough it's not an issue.

[snow dove]

producing less power costs less power so it produces less power so it costs less power and it continues on

[pure vortex]

That is incorrect.

[snow dove]

why not just produce a set amount of power?

then you get nice straight lines

[deft lichen]

Why would you possibly want production above consumption in a fixed way

[fierce ruin]

but at the cost of complexity, have fun trouble shooting that

[pure vortex]

Because as you approach the limit, you need to move it again. This limit moves with demand.

[fierce ruin]

thats exactly what im thinking isnt the point of head room not to have to worry about fixed changes of having a constant head room

[snow dove]

that ain’t how that’s gonna work

[pure vortex]

Look at the graph dude

[snow dove]

you’re still gonna hit the limit of what you can actually produce

turning part of it off sometimes doesn’t change that

[pure vortex]

I mean eventually I have to add more plants, ofc

[hollow arrow]

Do you take the power reading and send it back to the power plant with an added gain?

[snow dove]

so,

Because as you approach the limit, you need to move it again.

[pure vortex]

There are 3 controllers. It's a PID

[hollow arrow]

I was hoping it would be

Hell yeah, controls gamer

[pure vortex]

So yes, but it's controlled feedback that's highly tuned. Otherwise that graph doesn't look so pretty

[hollow arrow]

How did you tune it?

[pure vortex]

The only way. Manually 🥲

[rustic patio]

you want that back? O.o

but that basically gurantees yellow lights!

[median heath]

No.

[pure vortex]

It wasn't so bad, I had system parameters easily available to change

[rustic patio]

ah okay, good. sounded like it at first

yes but why? it has no advantage

[hollow arrow]

I think it would be cool to have a production machine that required a variable input, but I think it would be quite a bit to deal with

[rustic patio]

resources are infinite so u dont save anything with this

i can only see a disadvantage, that being the variability of side products like resin and waste

which u want for plastic/rubber and plut rods for points

[oblique hollow]

average PID moment

[pure vortex]

user does actual math and creates self-regulating power system

#math-and-meta "That's dumb."

[hollow arrow]

I think it's cool, but it is dumb

[oblique hollow]

We had self regulating power, it was silly

[hollow arrow]

It's textbook over engineering

[rustic patio]

you use math to make ur factory worse

[pure vortex]

Like I did it for the game lmaooo

[rustic patio]

its cool, but kinda dumb

[pure vortex]

Wanted to see if it'd work

[rustic patio]

yea thats cool

[oblique hollow]

I can make just as much of a regulation circuit with just pipes if i wanted

[fierce ruin]

lost me at valves on buffers

[snow dove]

same

[pure vortex]

Look, for what it's worth, I didn't do it on my recent playthrough because I knew it was silly. I just thought it was cool :<

[fierce ruin]

facts

[rustic patio]

yea thats a good enough reason imo

[pure vortex]

Same thing with my valve thingy on tanks

[rustic patio]

some more complex logic system could be cool, im sure people could do amazing things like in terraria or MC

but they'd need to add a use for them too

[fierce ruin]

you get doom running on the logic gates, that will interest me

[rustic patio]

because right now something like that isnt needed

[pure vortex]

We don't do these things because they work well. We do them because they break make us.

[snow dove]

i usually do things because they work well

[rustic patio]

ye thats what i mean. in minecraft they do crazy redstone stuff to make farms more efficient

it could be fun to add something like that to satisfactory but i doubt thats possible within the goals of the games

[snow dove]

ilmango

[rustic patio]

i love ilmango

[pure vortex]

self-regulating machine (production oc) based on demand?

[snow dove]

scicraft’s mantra is like “how absolutely bonkers can we make everything”

[rustic patio]

no like an orbital laser that can desrtoy any place in minecraft with the press of a button

just vanilla redstone in survival, using math and loading tricks

[snow dove]

useless

[rustic patio]

(or something like that, i have no clue how it works)

[snow dove]

no numbers should be variable

[pure vortex]

Why?

[rustic patio]

@median heath what do u think?

[snow dove]

no numbers should be variable

[pure vortex]

Different playstyles.

[median heath]

I'm driving.

[rustic patio]

production on demand is useless beacuse resources are infinite

producing as much as possible at all times is usually "optimal" so u get more sink points

if u can produce then there is never really a reason to not produce in this game because everything is infinite

[true junco]

Idk. Seams fun. Like IRL power is definitely not a straight line.

Base load and peak demand etc.

[snow dove]

cause resources aren’t infinite

[rustic patio]

and because u can actually produce too much power irl afaik

if the grid needs 10 and u give 1000, thats a problem irl (i think)

not in satisfactory

[snow dove]

same idea as a surge

[rustic patio]

if you want to do it for roleplay reasons thats one thing, but the game itself gives u no reason to adapt things to demand

[rustic patio]

and im not a roleplayer

[tacit cosmos]

The only reason to turn on and off production is if you are using a bunch of overclocked particle accelerators and your power grid can't handle the upswing. But if that is the case, you could just build power storage to compensate.

[rustic patio]

do any of u have any ideas for how logic could add to the game?

like, enable u to be more efficient

[pure vortex]

Well apparently no one fucking cares about efficiency lmao, because everything is infinite

[rustic patio]

well, i do care about efficiency

to me it is maximixing the production every second

the only thing thats limited is time, so u want to make as much out of the resource sources as possible per second

thats what i consider efficiency

[tacit cosmos]

maybe if you could designate specific items to have a priority over raw materials?

[true junco]

Not really. But you can waste fuel.

Typically generators see the "Load" on the circuit they are powering as torque counter to the direction of the Rotor's rotation.

[fierce ruin]

good point,

i only limit my production by my laziness of not wanting to keep building more and more non nuclear plants.

[true junco]

So, you apply more force from the prime mover to overpower the resistance of the load.

[tacit cosmos]

I've had to build and tear down my aluminum production because something happens with the water where it gets too full in the second set of refineries, thereby stopping, and the water that is supposed to feed back into the first set of refineries now don't run because they are full of the alumina solution. I double and triple check the math and everything 'in theory' should be working correctly, but when I leave the area for a while and come back, nothing is running.

[rustic patio]

VIP

[pure vortex]

You might just have to wait a while for it to saturate

[rustic patio]

no

[pure vortex]

Oh nothing is running...

[rustic patio]

you need Variable Input Priority junction

i think

[tacit cosmos]

the whole system is backed up with too much water in it. so nothing is running. BUT, if I just stay there for hours, it runs fine.

[hollow arrow]

The simplest way imo to do this would be for you to have an input that changes over time. As is, all inputs are constant and there is no penalty for over feeding lines. If you were to add those in you would need a system to prevent over feeding your systems

[rustic patio]

strange

[true junco]

If you are recycling the water you need something of a VIP if the recycled water is on the same fluid circuit as the fresh water.

[fierce ruin]

this is literary the only place i use a valve in my factory

[rustic patio]

that just makes the game more annoying imo

[pure vortex]

same...but everyone judged me for putting a valve on a tank...

[rustic patio]

like, redstone in minecratf doesnt make the game more difficult, ur not forced to use it

its just an addition you can use to be even more efficient

[hollow arrow]

I think a thing like this would work best as a production building after the blender

[fierce ruin]

putting a valve on a tank is like saying atm machine

[hollow arrow]

Something beyond current late game

[rustic patio]

valves suck

they're only 8 bit or something, basicaly useless

[fierce ruin]

were just busting chops, your build your way, some people use valves everywhere, i am not one of those people

[pure vortex]

Legit question...don't they act like semiconductors? They allow fluid to flow one way only

[hollow arrow]

They are Diodes yes

[pure vortex]

ah that's the word ty

[true junco]

Options for byproduct water.

Recycle into alumina refineries with fresh water
Recycle into alumina refineries seperate from fresh water
Recylce into another process such as residual rubber from the polyresin produced when making your coke for electrode scrap. Use this rubber for heat exchangers...

[rustic patio]

yes but limiting flow direction is kinda useless tbh

backflow still occurs, you just push it back

[pure vortex]

How so...

[fierce ruin]

ahh the good old x | 0 bit chop 🙂

[rustic patio]

whats the benefit of it?

i dont see any

[pure vortex]

Backflow in certain areas of gravity fed systems

[tacit cosmos]

I've been thinking of adding a whole setup to put water from the second set of refineries into packaged water, having that push into an overflow smart splitter, then unpacking it and go back into the first set, that way it can't really ever get oversaturated with water, but that seems like a lot of waste.

[rustic patio]

it doesnt prevent backflow tho

[fierce ruin]

i take into account the upper limit of how many objects i can place before my autosave takes longer then the interval

[hollow arrow]

I thought it does

[pure vortex]

Uh...you sure?

[rustic patio]

yes, 100%

[fierce ruin]

ya i dont recommend that

[rustic patio]

you can not prevent backflow

[pure vortex]

Bro if I drain a tank behind a valve it stays empty

[fierce ruin]

even after reloads?

[pure vortex]

Like what

[rustic patio]

also valves are like, really fucky when it comes to flow amount

if you limit to 300 flow, and the input is 300 flow, then you get 150 flow i think

[rustic patio]

yea thats kinda wrong

[fierce ruin]

my fav part is how they look at pixelated when you open the ui from texture lag lol

[hollow arrow]

It is?

[rustic patio]

you can not prevent backflow. where would the fluid go?

it just moves where the backflow occurs

[pure vortex]

Really...that's very interesting. Because I predicted a variable valve 20 minutes in advance, the tank had exactly the value it should have had within a few tenths of liters.

[rustic patio]

then u had full flow going into the valve

[pure vortex]

Yeah, that's part of the model

[rustic patio]

here, look. from the pipe manual

240 goes in, only 60 goes out

tahts what i mean when i said they're fucky

[hollow arrow]

But that doesn't address backflow right?

[pure vortex]

Must have been a different set of pipes

Because from ALL of my calculations, they work as they should.

[elfin nebula]

valves only work with full pipes

[rustic patio]

and they dont stop backflow

[elfin nebula]

since they output too less, the pipe eventually fill up and stuff works delayed

[hollow arrow]

The first thing says they don't allow backflow

[rustic patio]

well, water cant flow from one side of the valve to the other

but it can flow from the input back

[tacit cosmos]

^

[rustic patio]

so in essence the result is the same

[fierce ruin]

a well placed mk2 pump is all you need

and elbows like on your bathroom fixtures work

[tacit cosmos]

that's how the pipe with only 240 input will eventually fill to 300 if you have a valve set to below 240 flow

[fierce ruin]

fluid buffers... you know in most refineries IRL a majority of the fluid is stored in the pipes. so man ypipes.

[rustic patio]

yes i know im great at drawing

here, no valve. the fluid goes to the front, and it backflows

[fierce ruin]

our own picasso RH

[rustic patio]

with a valve it still backflows, but it backflows froom the valve

the result is the same

[hollow arrow]

I agree, and that is what i am talking about when i say backflow prevention

[rustic patio]

you can not prevent backflow, you'd have to make the fluid vanish

[tacit cosmos]

actually, if you want to get technical, the water would flow in the direction at the bottom, and then back flow at the top... ::pushed up glasses::

[rustic patio]

it ahs to go somewhere, and when forward doesnt work it goes backwards

[fierce ruin]

       |======|
       ^      ^
<<=====|      |====pump=====<<<

[pure vortex]

I think our definitions of backflow are different. But I see your point.

The point I care about is that it doesn't flow reverse across the valve interface

[rustic patio]

in the end it behaves the same, thats what matters to me

[versed musk]

sorry for the topic change, but how many HMF per minute do you need in total?

[rustic patio]

69

[pure vortex]

Nice

[rustic patio]

there is no answer. you can do 0.00000001 per minute or 100

[elfin nebula]

for example we plan 165

thats barely enough for our plans

[versed musk]

yeah but considering you need them for the fused

[hollow arrow]

I'm working with 22.5 but I'm a baby and haven't gotten this far

[true junco]

Need is relative to goals.

[rustic patio]

u can finish the game with 0.1 per minute

just takes a bit longer

[elfin nebula]

with zero, just handcraft all

[rustic patio]

that works too, yes

[versed musk]

ye

[true junco]

How many fused frames do you want?

[elfin nebula]

for example we plan 40

[tacit cosmos]

that question is open to so much. what are you looking to try to do? fill up personal storage room? build 300 Thermal Propulsion Rockets?

[versed musk]

10 per minute?

[versed musk]

we who?

[rustic patio]

i would go for 1981.98 heavy modulr frames per minute if i were you :)

[elfin nebula]

my servers population

[versed musk]

is this the max production?

[true junco]

How many HMF will it take to make those? Then that is your answer... at least until you change your goals...

[rustic patio]

yes

[versed musk]

nice

[versed musk]

k

[elfin nebula]

protip: with heat fused its 1 for 1

[hollow arrow]

I made this shitty flow tree that shows ratios

[elfin nebula]

idk about the default tbh

[hollow arrow]

It's pretty much one to one with few exceptions, so if you need 10 fused frames you need 10 hmf

[fierce ruin]

this is an example of one of my scratch pads for super computers

50 circuit boards - comp
8 circuit boards - hspeed conn
===============================
58 circuit boards pm

8 assem

120 copper sheets pm
240 plastic pm

10 constructors

200 c ingots pm

8 smelters (6.6667/8 cs)

90 plastic pm (computer) [330 plastic pm total]

45 cables pm (computer) | 90 wire pm [45 c ingot + 200 = 245 c ingots pm total]

8 smelters (8.1667/8 cs)

260 screw pm 

8 constructors (6.5/8 cs)

8  constructors (5.4667/8 cs)

56.25 cables pm  | total 101.25 cables pm (3.375/4 constructors for wire )

~300 copper ingots pm = 10.667 / 8 smelters

[elfin nebula]

thats unreadable

[versed musk]

fr

[tacit cosmos]

that reads just fine

[hollow arrow]

Me?

I cam make it prettier

[rustic patio]

anyone using obsidian for satis?

[elfin nebula]

no, the person with unreadable name.
its quite encrypted

[fierce ruin]

no mine i think,

its penguins in leet speek

[true junco]

Idk off hand either But i know how to find it when i need it and the design paradigm im following. Which is what my point was for Greenbean.

They want 10/min fused frames. If they use the alt you suggest, they only need 10/min HMFs.

[oblique hollow]

laura the manual has an entire page that covers this topic

[rustic patio]

i didnt have the manual handy 😭

i stole that page from the wiki because i saw it. can u link the relevant page?

[oblique hollow]

Page 11

[fierce ruin]

my scratch pad is setup to detemine specifically the clock speeds required to set nice even amount of machines, like making 5 constructs. blah, make 8 and underclock.

[elfin nebula]

yeah, we need 40 for 4 frames and 120 for that elevator thing.
5 excess to store

[rustic patio]

thank uuuu

the pipe manual, our holy scripture

:(

[oblique hollow]

i could ping Jace about that and finally ask for official approval

not that it really matters anymore xd

[rustic patio]

yess thatd be awesome

[fierce ruin]

ba dum ching

[tacit cosmos]

am I weird that at the end where I have to underclock a machine, I actually underclock two? like if I need to have one underclocked at 50%, I underclock two machines at 75%.

[true junco]

Oh yeah. Jace is no longer technically covered by staff/mod status etc. (I would suggest "former" staff be treat like current staff tho)

[fierce ruin]

i do that you save more electricity.. to some extent based on my laziness at the time

[true junco]

A little odd. But nothing wrong with that...

If using bith sides of a manifold, it makes even more sense IMO.

[elfin nebula]

i underclock every single one to the same :yuusha_shrug:

[tacit cosmos]

lol, 25 machines all underclocked to 92.333%

[versed musk]

not approved

[hollow arrow]

Where can I see that manual?

[oblique hollow]

#faq

[fierce ruin]

pins

[oblique hollow]

huh oops

not faq, but #welcome

or the pins in this channeö

[elfin nebula]

yeah, even doing that with hundreds of them

setting up one and copy pasting the settings

[hollow arrow]

Ty ty

[elfin nebula]

but i also try to run actual load balancers and not manifolds, so i need them to be the same

[pure vortex]

What are you underclocking for? Lack of resources?

[elfin nebula]

its normal that the amount of buildings isnt a whole number

[tacit cosmos]

I pick a number of things I want at the end of the production and then work backwards. sometimes that means weird numbers

[elfin nebula]

like when one produces 10 but you need 15, you cant place 1.5

[pure vortex]

yeah you can, that's how oc works lol

[fierce ruin]

ya i do the same,

[elfin nebula]

for more power usage.
but you could also use two at 75 %
needs more space but it way cheaper

[pure vortex]

Two machines at roughly 59% is the same as 1 machine at 100% in terms of power

They produce 18% more output as well (and consume 18% more)

[elfin nebula]

yeah and for that one at 150 you could place idk how manx 75 in terms of power

[pure vortex]

sec

[elfin nebula]

like 4 or 5 i guess?

[tacit cosmos]

more machines at underclock only has the footprint cost and the construction cost, both are up front, where as overclocking has a permanent baked in extra cost of 1. the power shard 2. the power drain

[elfin nebula]

i only oc when i dont have the place

[fierce ruin]

also you have overhead to increase production without construction

[rustic patio]

i try to OC all my machines as much as possible

[elfin nebula]

though its performance wise good to have less buildings i guess

[pure vortex]

1.5x oc requires 1.709x power
0.75x oc requires .684x power
So it is exactly 2.5x

[pure vortex]

Horrendously inefficient, but if you have the power...shrug

[tacit cosmos]

overclocking everything made sense where there was that hard object number limit, i don't think that is an issue anymore

[rustic patio]

i plan to use all of the uranium anyway so im not losing anything

[rustic patio]

shiytty computer tho

wouldht having 2.5 times less machines improve performance?

[elfin nebula]

still is and have a save with limit break

[pure vortex]

I guess it's hard to lose anything when everything is infinite...

[tacit cosmos]

even then, just distributing production to blocks that don't load together will solve that issue

[pure vortex]

Performance, yes, but efficiency goes WAY down

[oblique hollow]

eh, its just power

[pure vortex]

in terms of power

[oblique hollow]

35% more power used, could be worse

[rustic patio]

yea but full nuclear yk

[elfin nebula]

its easy to have the power i still dislike the idea of oc everything

[rustic patio]

i li;ke it, but it also hurts

[pure vortex]

As you should, it's literally worse because it costs more in the long run

[oblique hollow]

OCing everying is basically upgrading a machine to mk2:
its faster but uses more power

[rustic patio]

30 shards just for smelting one pure iron node 😩

[oblique hollow]

2.5x faster, but only 35% more power used

[pure vortex]

The only thing I OC regularly is power production

I tend to underclock if anything

[tacit cosmos]

i'm working on 100 nuclear reactor setup with just enough turbo fuel generators to power everything needed to make the fuel cells.

[elfin nebula]

and i guess oc my 1600 wire constructors wont make it much better. and idk if 1920 shards is even half way realistic judt for one factory

[rustic patio]

when u have more energy than u can use before ur laptop fails to load the save then using more power isnt a problem

[snow dove]

so you have all your machines set to produce .0001 items per minute?

[lime leaf]

i prefer to oc everything so the save doesnt die for my friend again and we dont have to start a new one

[rustic patio]

(im my own friend in this case)

[pure vortex]

Precisely what I said.

[fierce ruin]

i start to oc my miners first, then as i get extra power i OC my most complex part that takes the longest, and work backwards down the chain, until out of power.

[snow dove]

you must have a lot of machines then

[pure vortex]

I have what I need to make the game the way I want it to be.

[snow dove]

10000 machines for 1 item a minute must suck

[pure vortex]

Good thing I don't fucking do that

[tacit cosmos]

right. overclocking miners and all the fluid resources is the only thing I use power shards for... i do overclock water extractors to 240, so that I have one for each nuclear reactor, for aesthetic reasons...

[pure vortex]

What about your power generators?

[tacit cosmos]

don't overclock those

[pure vortex]

Why? What?

[median heath]

@rustic patio done driving, is it even worth scrolling back up?

[elfin nebula]

i plan to use my 900 fuel gens at 100 % xD

[pure vortex]

There is ZERO reason to not overclock pgens

[noble timber]

If you have to build hundreds of fuel gens then it may be worth overclocking if you have no other use for the shards

[elfin nebula]

needs more shards than i have

[median heath]

pgens?

[pure vortex]

power generator

[tacit cosmos]

power generators

[noble timber]

Geothermal are worth it i'd say

[tacit cosmos]

I don't overclock because it makes all the numbers slightly less appealing.

[median heath]

Unfamiliar with term unless you're grouping all 5 types into a single word.

In which case I will disagree that ALL should be overclocked.

[deft lichen]

Except you can't OC those

[pure vortex]

Perhaps you've never played another game with power generators then

[noble timber]

LOL I had a feeling you couldn't. I've never tried

But if you could it would be worth it

[deft lichen]

Of course, even more free power

[pure vortex]

There's a dash, p-gen. I just didn't type it.

[median heath]

This is the Satisfactory discord.
I consider terms as they relate to Satisfactory.

In which there is no OC-able building called a "power generator".

[tacit cosmos]

i wish you could sync the geothermal with the particle accelorators...

[noble timber]

Oh that would be cool

[median heath]

unless you're grouping all 5 types into a single word.

In which case I will disagree that ALL should be overclocked

[pure vortex]

Power generator is a blanket term what the fuck

Like honestly fuck this chat dude

[noble timber]

Never heard anyone say power generator here

[elfin nebula]

also never heard pgens. we just use gens without p, because implicit anyway

[pure vortex]

Everyone on edge as fuck

[median heath]

Well that was a fast turn-around...

[pure vortex]

Insane.

[deft lichen]

Overclocking coal gens seems like a waste, overclocking fuel generators needs more shards than I can be bothered to collect, geothermal can't be overclocked, nuclear is worth overclocking

[noble timber]

Says the one getting angry 🤣

[pure vortex]

I'm just over constantly fighting every single fucking person on every single fucking thing.

[tacit cosmos]

we're not on edge, at least, i'm not.

[rustic patio]

Was talking about how logic could be added to enhance the game. Coildnt really come up with something cool

[median heath]

Fuel Gens are the main thing I would favor overclocking as it brings the number of them down considerably.

[elfin nebula]

nuckear because of water also isnt

[noble timber]

When you have to build almost 1000 fuel gens, overclocking them is very appealing 😂

[tacit cosmos]

The game has way more space than you could ever possibly use.

[noble timber]

I always OC nuclear

[deft lichen]

200% is 480 but half the amount, no need to max it to 250%

[median heath]

Could be added.
Enhance is subjective.

Wouldn't really optimize anything because resources are infinite, but could allow for cool un-optimal setups.

[tacit cosmos]

no reason to not just build the machines without overclocking.

[rustic patio]

Yea basically thats the conclusion I also came to

[elfin nebula]

well, i need 900 but thats 1080 shard to get them to 360

[rustic patio]

The only way to make logic useful is to make something more difficult/add something that requires it

[tacit cosmos]

spawn some in

[rustic patio]

And o think that would be bad for the game

[deft lichen]

Not saying it's bad, I just don't go out of my way to get slugs

[median heath]

On U8 they added so many that slugs are practically in your way now.

[deft lichen]

But my fuel gen farms aren't as big

I don't think I've had over like 60 in a farm

[tacit cosmos]

I get them, then make a slug roller coaster for them to ride on forever and ever and ever...

[median heath]

I use 250% clock to bring the number under 100 😄

[fierce ruin]

IKR,

[elfin nebula]

we planned 216 nuclear power plants. that will look impressive. halving that to 108 would make it way less impressive. so wont dot that

[median heath]

Wow... he actually left 😂

[spiral wigeon]

How would I go about splitting off 1/4 of the items from a smelter?

[noble timber]

LMAO some people...

[tacit cosmos]

he probably just had too much coffee

[fierce ruin]

slugfam

[median heath]

Half of a half?

[deft lichen]

Split in two, then in two
But balancing is hardly ever needed

Consider manifolding instead

[elfin nebula]

its fancy and satisfying

[fierce ruin]

should just got for an even 256 😉

[elfin nebula]

no, we dont have sulfur for more kekw

[deft lichen]

Underclock them to have 432

Have fun

[tacit cosmos]

at 216 reactors, you wont have a way to sink the waste.

[elfin nebula]

you sure have

even with full 252

[tacit cosmos]

running trucks with plutonium rods?

[elfin nebula]

just sink the plutonium?

[deft lichen]

If you already get plutonium rods why burn them off with trucks

[tacit cosmos]

don't you need uranium to process the waste into plutonium?

[elfin nebula]

none

[median heath]

No.

Fertile Uranium sucks unless you fit into a very specific niche.

[elfin nebula]

we could use that to get more plutonium because we dont use all uranium. but that makes no sense when sinking

[deft lichen]

Uhh, more points

[elfin nebula]

well, impact on points is nothing. we thought about that

[tacit cosmos]

well, i think i was looking at my plan all wrong.

[elfin nebula]

thats why never stitching together too many steps in one chart

rod production and waste handling are two tabs for me

[tacit cosmos]

I just needed to move the uranium input and now I see that i don't use uranium for the non-fissile uranium.

[elfin nebula]

well you dont need to move to see, since that are straight lines

abd the line from uranium doesnt go to non fissile

[spiral wigeon]

on the project planner (https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production) how do i make it use an alt recipe for an item used in the final product

nvm i found it

[rustic patio]

id recommend satisfactory tools

[spiral wigeon]

ok thanks

[median heath]

Tools is superior.

[wind spade]

@chrome night read #math-and-meta message

[chrome night]

ty

[vapid gorge]

@hardy trench oh would you like a couple simple tips for when you get to coal power?

[wise relic]

how many foundations in length of the double ramp 2m can trains and trucks climb?

[vapid gorge]

as much as you like if you have enough locomoties for hte weight

[wise relic]

ok, cool. i should be fine then

[vapid gorge]

I think 1 engine per 4 full cars works? You'd have to double check

[median heath]

Works but is overkill given cars have dynamic weight.

[vapid gorge]

sure but don't you have to plan for max weight?

[median heath]

Why force 1-4 when 1-5 works fine 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

will 1-5 deal with any length ramp?

[median heath]

Depends on what you're shipping.
I don't think you can 100% guarantee that 1-4 will tbh.

[vapid gorge]

orly? interesting

[wise relic]

is there a way to make slopped blueprints that can snap together, or is that near impossible with the way the blueprint designer works?

[median heath]

If you have a wall they can snap to it should be fine.

[wise relic]

hm, i didn't think about a wall. i suppose i could try that.

[median heath]

(This is not at you, specifically, I'm saying this in general)

Some people complain about lack of BP snapping when they don't give them anything to snap to... which is like -- what did they think would happen? It would magically float-snap to... nothing?

[wise relic]

yeah. on one hand I assumed it would snap to the foundations i'm trying to snap it too, but because the designer takes height into consideration that makes it difficult

[wise relic]

I am not finding any information on how I can utilize walls to make this work. I'm not sure where I'd place them to get them to snap correctly

[vapid gorge]

Weirdness with 0 limestone being sent to fine xD https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=5hBKmEH6sjsO6ZyJrOqd @wind spade

Hey @median heath , didn't you figure out a while back that using a combo of cheap silica and fine concrete wasn't actually a better output?

[median heath]

It's worse conversion because you're using Limestone in both steps.

[vapid gorge]

interesting choice with tools - I gues it really has low value on limestone

[true junco]

Theres a lot of limestone, and a lot of ways to stretch limestone. A heck of a lot less quartz too... so just about anything that stretches quartz is very useful.

Fine concrete is one of those times when i cannot fathom using the much rarer quartz. Especially when Oil and/or water pushes limestone either farther or "cheaper"

[vapid gorge]

Oh sure, I just found it a bit funny xD

[wind spade]

@steel brook read #math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

It's probably 0.00001/min or smth

[oblique hollow]

Rubber Concrete Superiority

[median heath]

☝️

[oblique hollow]

just found my test setup of train vs truck efficiency

Train Power demand.

Truck Power demand

its just a single 20 MW spike every so often for them

(minus the fuel)

but this one only needs 3/min packaged fuel

[bleak coral]

so 20MW spike, plus a constant 37.5MW from fuel usage (for potential power vs burning that fuel in a fuel gen)

and trains idle at 25MW right? so that plus accelleration power, it's not even close

not even getting into station power

[vapid gorge]

Although if you look only limestone is being fed to the Fine Concrete box, no crystal

[median heath]

*Silica

[vapid gorge]

Ah yeah, needs processing first

[oblique hollow]

averaged out over time, truck station power is miniscule.
the 20 MW make a 600 MWh storage drain in 25 hours, otherwise its 2500 hours.

while the entire train thing would surely drain the storages in 5 hours

[alpine raft]

and how much MW would train use?

roughly

[wind spade]

Yeah, classic rounding errors

[wind spade]

Up to 115MW, depending on how much power it needs to move

[oblique hollow]

see graphs above.
when docking, a train itself uses almost no power, but the station does.
when driving, a station uses no power, while the train does

[true junco]

Feels like the choice between rubber concrete and wet concrete is more of a choice about logistics and how badly you need that much concrete. Water being quite a bit more readily available than Rubber. Its just a lot easier to make wet concrete, so if it makes enough i just use wet. I intend to try out more rubber concrete, i just need to find the right situation for it.

[pseudo copper]

trying to figure out if overclocking power generators is worth it or not

[true junco]

All it does is save space and build materials in exchange for shards. If youve got plenty of shards its worth it if you dont want to end up with a massively spread out generatorum.

[pseudo copper]

good to know

[fierce ruin]

do you need buffers on unloading train stations for max eff, or is that only needed for loading stations?

[snow dove]

in most cases, yes

[magic island]

both the inputs and outputs on a platform will stop during load/unload, so you should buffer at both ends of the route

if you only buffer at one stop, it's functionally the same as buffering at neither stop

[pseudo copper]

finally learning how to play the game after 85 hours. figured i should learn how to not abuse powershards

[true junco]

There are cases where buffering at the unloading station is not necessary. Such as when the stop doesnt need anywhere near what the train can potentially deliver and the outfeed from the station backs up and the train just "overflow" carries the contents to another destination, or simply doesnt need to take more than what is needed from the station.

In these cases the buffers at unloading wont hurt anything, just take longer to saturate to overflow further down the railway.

[wraith charm]

What is the ULTIMATE desing for a complete train network. I am wondering if I should make loading and unloading in completely different trainstations. How do I balance trains going through intersections. What items do I put in a freight and what to another. And there are just many more problems that I have not yet figured out.

[magic island]

trains trade away perfect throughput and power-efficiency for logistical convenience, so it's hard to define the ultimate train network because you're optimizing for something subjective

[median heath]

I would say they trade those things and in return also transmit power.

[magic island]

that falls under logistical convenience, I would think

[median heath]

Fair

[wind spade]

@craggy glacier read #math-and-meta message

[prisma kraken]

truth is that in order to fully utilize train capacity, you have to be targeting really huge-scale building... as such, just kind of willy-nilly building them out is sufficient for 9/10 worlds

[true junco]

Trains are also best used for resource dense items. Ie. Not recommended to transport certain ores. I would definitely not recommend transporting concrete, screws, wire, quickwire, or cables by any means whatsoever. Its way more efficient to transport the materials you make them from, or the things you are making out of them, or to transport the components used with them to those items instead.

[bleak coral]

I mean, transporting high throughput is always extra clunky cause of the extra belts, but 4 of those things you named are actually excellent to transport by trains because they stack to 500 so each car can handle a larger amount of throughput than the lower stack size items

if limestone wasn't already pretty much everywhere so you can almost always make it locally, I'd even say that concrete specifically is a great train item cause it doesn't get to the huge throughputs that quickwire, wire, and screws get

and it also always compresses throughput, it's never higher than the input items

[vapid gorge]

What? why would you transport screws and wire? you need far fewer belt throughput for hte ingots

[bleak coral]

that's not what I said........

[true junco]

They are terrible to transport because they are in 500 stack items that leave the train station 1 item at a time. The max thruput for 500 stack items via train is terrible.

[median heath]

Max Throughput for 500 stacks is higher than any other item stack size 🙂

[true junco]

Maximums
50 per Stack
-88.62s RtD
-1083.3 Items/min

100 per Stack
-150.16s RtD
-1278.66 Items/min

200 per Stack
-273.23s RtD
-1405.4 Items/min

500 per Stack
-642.46s RtD
-1494.25 Items/min

Fluid Trains
-107.08s RtD
-896.52 Items/min

[true junco]

But its terrible compared to shipping most of the things tou make 500 stack items out of.

[median heath]

Well that is in terms of practical throughput, yes. 🙂

Also Fluid Trains ftw.

[true junco]

My original message was all about the practical thruput... lol

[median heath]

It is an important disctinction!

[true junco]

A distinction that was the basis of the whole convo.

So. Transporting beams has max thruput of:

1405.4 beams = 73,325 Screws/min

Vs transporting screws at a max rate of 1494.25/min

Similar comparisons for wire/QW/cable/concrete depending on what recipies you feel like using, personally i think the best alts for those are all multipart, so that gets more complicated. Either shipping in 2 materials, or shipping one material to the other etc. So a much longer discussion.

Note... cable is really only on the list because if im already considering working around wire and QW, then cable follows from that.

Generally tho. Its way better to shop things that are at least one step past those 500 stack items. Especially something that takes gobs of them. Like RIPs, frames, circuits, ai limiters, EIBs etc.

[charred siren]

Other than aesthetics, is there any reason to build trains or vehicle transport? It seems like conveyors are better in all situations

[mystic moon]

Trains are much easier to set up for high throughputs/complex routes/multiple items in the long run

[vapid gorge]

with minimal planning you could probably build a long train line within easy reach of all your hubs and then all the hubs can trade items along that one line easily without a mess of belts. Depends how big you're going and how spread out ofc

[oblique hollow]

For certain distances and also throughput, building conveyor stacks is more tedious

[median heath]

In terms of just throughput yes, belts beat everything.

Considering other factors beyond that is when vehicular logistics comes into play.

[deft lichen]

trains specifically have the major advantage of being able to reuse tracks

if you want to expand your network, you only have to build the part between the closest existing track and your destionation

[quartz violet]

also you can feasibly carry over 16 belts worth of items with 1 input track + 1 output track instead of making 16 belts all the way

[median heath]

I find their major advantage to be chooing.

[deft lichen]

that too

two major advantages

[median heath]

Choo and Power Transfer?

[deft lichen]

fine, at least three... 😄

[median heath]

Choo, Power Transfer, and being able to ride in them while automated?

[deft lichen]

the throughput is insane but practically immeasuarable - just really high
junctions are bottlenecks, not straight tracks

[quartz violet]

but who wants to set up 30 trains on 2 kilometers of track going back and forth

[median heath]

Why would you ever?

[quartz violet]

pure hilarity

[deft lichen]

I mean

it could be 2 km of common tracks of a large network

[quartz violet]

yeah

but theres a certain point where its just a conveyor belt of trains lol

[tranquil warren]

Can anyone recommend a guide for Tier 6/7 factory organization? I can build individual things like cables or even computers in fairly clean isolated buildings. But the spaghetti of interconnecting them is frustrating me. In Factorio I'd use a main bus, in Dyson Sphere Program I'd use production lines around PLS towers. What's the Satisfactory way of organizing things later in the game?
Looking for a good guide or video.

[cinder silo]

One thing satisfactory offers is the ability to build multi-levelled factories, embrace that third dimension, you can have belts under the floor, running between floors, and so on.

[tranquil warren]

Oh yeah, I'm doing that! But that all seems to lead you to a system where you have a tall multistory building whose job is to turn raw ore into computers or whatever. I like doing that but it seems less than ideal when you only need a few hundred computers an hour. Ideally I could also reuse the circuit boards in that building for some other part as well and have it load balance itself.

That's what the main bus and logistics systems in other games let you do. Maybe it's not a thing in Satisfactory though?

[cinder silo]

You can use smart splitters to overflow parts to other processes.

Actual busses are possible, just not really advised unless you really want one for that way of organising, this game is mostly aimed at distributing production.

The smart splitters also let you auto-organise your factory outputs in to stores as well.

[tranquil warren]

anyway, don't want to talk folks to death here. Just hoping for pointers to guides / videos. I learned a lot from DrLootCrate's videos on how to build individual production lines (one tall building) but he doesn't have one on larger scale organization.

[rustic patio]

i think a giant part of it is just to try and to fail

until you figured out a way that ur happy with

[cinder silo]

All cool, search my post history, you'll find all sorts of video footage & screen caps.

[tranquil warren]

I'm doing that. But surely someone's made videos about what they learned after trying and failing?

[rustic patio]

i havent come across any general logistics guides so far

[cinder silo]

My logistics are non-standard for sure, under the map non-standard as demonstrated here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08ziPYDOto

[tranquil warren]

I didn't think to search on the word "logistics". Finding some promising stuff on YouTube under [satisfactory large base logistics]

[rustic patio]

🎉

[tranquil warren]

ah this video helped me a lot, talking about two organization styles and comparing them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQWtke0dz7Y

(the answer is "both styles work, here's some tradeoffs and my preference.")

[severe escarp]

Recently started playing U8 after a few years (last played U4) and I love those concrete quarter-pipe foundation tunnels! Gives me so many ideas - not just for transportation but as an aesthetic way to hide and direct fluid pipes

[cinder silo]

Keep in mind my approach to tunnels will generate a hell of a lot of objects that can have a drastic impact on game performance.

In spite of my save being colossal, it is closer to modular.

[tranquil warren]

yeah those curved tunnels look awesome!

[cinder silo]

The tunnel network was improved considerably after I took the tunnel tour footage, shown here I evicted the power cables to inside the ceiling instead of hanging below it, also routed crossing belts to below glass on the tunnel floors.

[severe escarp]

I have an older PC running my dedi server and my current PC is designed around a 3080 - that should take care of most performance issues. Also, I was thinking about just using tunnels to conceal logi networks and leaving transportation outside - I enjoy a lot of the scenery in the game.

[cinder silo]

The cpu will cause issues long before the gpu with a mess of tunnels taking up space, here is a map of the network:

In case you wondered wth the square under the dunes is, it's 7200 power stores in 72 rooms on two levels shown here.

[severe escarp]

Running an i9-10900F - should be ok. Nice grid

[cinder silo]

I'm using a massively overclocked 12900k at 5.6ghz on its Pcores, performance drags somewhat with my save, rtx3090 gpu btw.

[snow dove]

does overclocking help with satisfactory performance?

specificaly CPU overclocking

[cinder silo]

I downclocked to test and yeah performance worsened, cpu and ram seem to be key.

[snow dove]

RAM is fine, i got 32GB and can barely get my pc to use more than 16GB

should probably check to see if my PSU can handle overclocking

[severe escarp]

Part of that is definitely the size of your save, though... and how extensive you want your logistics network to be.

[snow dove]

and that my cpu is overclock compatible

[cinder silo]

You know my save takes 32gb 🤣 , hit or miss loading it with a swapfile.

Mostly miss, racked up a graveyard of peoples pcs crashing out loading my world.

[snow dove]

google is a little inconsistent, can i overclock an i7-12700f?

[cinder silo]

Never tried, I've been buying K series chips for overclocking since second generation intel.

Can your cooling handle it though?

[severe escarp]

Technically, you can OC any processor. If you're interested, you can check reddit r/overclocking

[snow dove]

was probably gonna get an AIO

[cinder silo]

Some are locked, all intel, what a shock, you can push them to a degree but their multiplier won't do a thing.