math-and-meta

[vapid gorge]

Or both

[undone hull]

pipe design at refineries outputs

[rich tulip]

300 divided by 30 is 10

[cinder silo]

You might need a structure like this, though with fewer small buffers, the refineries output vs the generators intakes having a mismatch might be a cause, the maths on a macro scale will match but the machines duty cycles will lead to intermittent spikes.

[vapid gorge]

Well unless you have mods that change things machines produce and consume thing’s properly

Its far far far more likely you made a pipe or math error

Like it’s super easy to mess up pipes and in the picture you shared it seemed like there’d be problems

[cinder silo]

Check how many times per minute the refineries chuck out, and how many times per minute a generator takes up, if they are slightly different you'll get the peaks and troughs, so it can cause a stall.

When that happens a flow regulator can clean up that curve.

[rich tulip]

okay the setup is set like this fuel gens eat fuel fuel gens are running 100% whats stalling is what i circiled that shuts off bc its full of fuel which in returns stopped the 2 or 3 in back theres 30 fuel being consumed per min with 10 gens why is it that 300 fuel i put a fluid buffer to see if it would full up and it does even know all the gens are getting there fuel sop from what im seeing im making to much fuel and adding another fuel gen would solve the issue but i wanna know why am i making more fuel then consumed

[snow dove]

the pipes themselves are plenty buffer, just prefill and it works fine

[cinder silo]

The one pictured above solved an annoying issue at my bauxite refinery because the alumina solution output didn't match the intake of the receiving refineries opposite.

[vapid gorge]

Like I can’t see the whole thing but it looks like it’d have huge issues

[rich tulip]

all the intake and outtake match

[snow dove]

not the per minute numbers, the cycle time

[cinder silo]

The numbers yes, that was clear from the start, I was asking the cycle times.

[rich tulip]

whats cycle times

[cinder silo]

Right, the refineries push out 100 fuel per minute, but how much fuel per cycle?

The generators take in 30 fuel per minute at 250% clock, but how often is each cycle.

[rich tulip]

where do i find cycle at

[cinder silo]

Burn time on the generator, one moment please I have the numbers to look up.

[rich tulip]

burn time is 2 seconds

[cinder silo]

Ok the generator using 30 fuel per minute has a burn time of 2 seconds so it cycles 30 times a minute.

[snow dove]

kinda pointless, pipelines offer enough buffer

[rich tulip]

the buffer isnt there to act as a buffer its there to see if it would full up and it does whats what I was looking for it seems im making more fuel then i consume

[undone hull]

incorrect method

[snow dove]

does your production=your consumption?

[rich tulip]

Yes I've been saying this

[snow dove]

did you mind the max throughput of pipes?

[rich tulip]

I have mk2

[cinder silo]

He has mk2 pipes and the fuel output is 300, that isn't the issue.

[undone hull]

it can

if a cycle from refinerys give more fuel than that

if the cycle is 3 minuts

[snow dove]

then the pipelines act as a buffer…

[undone hull]

they will at one time gives 900/min

[cinder silo]

He's using residual fuel by the looks of it, 6 second cycle and 100 per minute, that won't bottle the pipe, not with the mk2 pipes.

[snow dove]

which the internal buffer accounts for…

[undone hull]

right

[cinder silo]

The numbers line up, cycle time shouldn't be the problem, my only remaining solution would be a loop.

[snow dove]

did they prefill the pipes?

[undone hull]

feeding the lines of generators by both sides

[snow dove]

did they turn off the first machines in the manifold to allow for the internal buffers of the machines at the end of the manifold to fill?

[cinder silo]

That is off the mark, the issue he's reporting is a seeming overproduction of fuel.

[rich tulip]

yes

[snow dove]

yet they said their production matches their consumption

[cinder silo]

This is what I mean by the loop, the pipework on the ceiling moves 300 fuel but to 25 not-clocked generators rather than 10, the reason for the loops is because the pipe junctions don't split in the same way that belt splitters do, there is some voodoo in there than can make tight maths just not fly.

[snow dove]

I have 400+ junctions in my new fuel factory that all work perfectly

haven’t ever encountered an issue like that

[cinder silo]

You are supremely lucky because I have from time to time, I bottom feed as you can see though, the loops fixed the breakdowns.

[rich tulip]

I set this in the middle to see if it would fill up and when this gets filled my one refine shuts of bc its fulled with fuel which turns off the other refines

if i get rid of this my machines back up instantly

[cinder silo]

Yeah that shouldn't be anywhere near that full, not with the 300 take up, something is causing sloshing in the pipes themselves.

[rich tulip]

should i put valves

[cinder silo]

I wouldn't recommend it, can you DM me your save, I would love to take a closer look at the system.

[rich tulip]

okay

where do i find that

[cinder silo]

c:\your-name\appdata\local\factorygame\savegames\457309873987

[undone hull]

the number at the end can be different

if i'm right

[cinder silo]

Yeah, I think it is like steam Id or epics equivilant.

[undone hull]

yup

[snow dove]

%LOCALAPPDATA%\FactoryGame\Saved\SaveGames

[cinder silo]

The number I showed was a keyboard mash example.

[snow dove]

paste that into your search bar in the file manager, then click the folder with lots of random letters and numbers

[rich tulip]

CRAP

im on geforce now

[cinder silo]

D'oh! 😦

I have no clue with that service.

[rich tulip]

ill dowenload it really quick

[cinder silo]

Hmm, I'm unsure if your save will be easy to access from gefarce now, the game itself yeah but I have no clue how client data is handled.

[opaque oak]

To get it out from the Now, you would need to download the game to local computer from same game service that is used in the Now, and sync the cloud saves to local.

[cinder silo]

I'm about out of time, won't be back home 'til like 1900ish uk time.

[opaque oak]

And not accidentally sync the empty local save directory to the cloud.

[cinder silo]

Here seems to be the seeming fuel overproduction issue.

[undone hull]

note to myself : turn off the auto save when you're monitoring train journey durations

[round moon]

y

[median heath]

Oof, been there.

[coral onyx]

i hope i have experts to help me out, i have 6 oil extractors, 3 pure, 2 normal and 1 impure, if i run 2 normal and 1 pure on one pipeline, 2 pure on another pipeline and merge the 60 to both, would that work on MK2 pipe and MK2 pump, also could i merge the pipe every 100ish meters to help each pipe line out?

[deft lichen]

you cannot possibly push more than 600 through the mk2 pipe no matter how you merge it

[cedar mica]

In theory you can, given the slush. Seen that on some storage tanks, where they get 605/m3 and so on.

Still, that is limited to those with more then 1 pipe input/output.

[oblique notch]

That's only because flow rate on the UI shows combined both directions but you still can't get more than the pipe limit in one direction

It can be that way on any pipe but you most often see it on buffers, if you have 600 going out one side and 150 going out to other (due to backflow) you'd see 750.

But you still can't exceed 600 in any one direction

[cedar mica]

Just saying, that in rare cases you can go above, but in most cases you wont even get the full pipe amount, as its not as stable as a belt.

[oblique notch]

You aren't going above. Not really. It's just that much flowing out of that segment, that's what I'm trying to say. Not that much flowing through that segment

I say this not to be pedantic but because you don't need to confuse people with fluids anymore than it already is. Someone will take your statement and go "oh if I do some funky things maybe I can make 605 consumed by my receiving machines work on a single branch"... and you can't.

[snow dove]

in most cases you can get the full pipe amount*

most, if not all

[cedar mica]

Unless you find a way to merge the splitter directly to a machine, you cant really do that "trick", as it requires more then 1 pipe to begin with.
Only "use case" I can see, is that you might fill a buffer tank faster, by forcing a pipe on the output.

[cedar mica]

Given slosh is even a thing, I say that you are not likely to get the full 600, unless you have learned all the tricks.

[snow dove]

not hard by any means to get a full 600 from a mk2 pipe

[cedar mica]

600 into a nuclear plant, not so hard. 600 into 50 fuel plants, a bit more tricky, when you want them all to be proper feed.

[snow dove]

still fairly easy

[coral onyx]

so ill be pushing 1020 going into 2 pipes, of course the merge will be the oil extractor to the 2 pipes

[snow dove]

?

[coral onyx]

so 480 each pipe

if i leave the one extractor out

[snow dove]

1020/2≠480

[coral onyx]

i understand

so 480 each pipe then merge in the 60 from the impure extractor to the 2 pipes should give me 510 each pipe = 1020 total

in theory this should work just fine to get cruide oil to my refineries

what is meant by slush and when should i flush my lines?

[snow dove]

slush is rarely an issue when you aren't working with almost full/full mk2 pipes

[tired viper]

Hi people ^^

I finally made my first oil rig :D

Is it worth pumping to the max of the pipe and having 5 refineries?

I see some setups but almost all of them just have 4 at 240 instead of 5 at 300

And I don't know if I'm missing something

[snow dove]

make what you need, no more, no less

[tired viper]

Just wanna make sure I'm not missing something

[oblique notch]

Slosh. Backfill. Pipes are omnidirectional and have volume, unlike belts, so fluid can go both ways in a given pipe. This is most often what trips up people when trying to hit 600m³/min flow rate

[tired viper]

I just have mk1 tho

[oblique notch]

I didn't reply to you... so... ok? 😁

[tired viper]

I was just adding info, not replaying to you tho xD

[oblique notch]

Fair enough!

[tired viper]

and haven't unlcoked yet fueal generators

[nocturne ridge]

max out that pipe edit: jk, replying to Zarhonrer

[low forge]

yo

[tired viper]

[oblique notch]

Choose how much tou want to make, and work backwards. Far easier than the other way around

[tired viper]

I just want to optimize

I see pips can carry 300ml, so if I OC the oil extractor a little bit ,i can put it at 300

[coral onyx]

top and bottom pipes are 480 up to this merger, and in my head it turnes them into 510 +/- per pipe, am i over thinking this?

[wind spade]

pipes don't work like belts

fluid goes down first, then up

[tired viper]

Then have 5 refineries at 60 oil each, making 200 fuel

[coral onyx]

so the bottom one will have more than the top

[snow dove]

till the bottom fills up

[oblique notch]

It won't matter, like liquid in real life it will attempt to equalize

Whatever is being consumed that's how much will go down that pipe once the pipes are completely full.

So fill your pipes before turning on your machines and if your math is right and you didn't exceeded the pipe maximum it will be ok

[coral onyx]

so pipe limit (600) and dont have machines that want more than (600), if i stay below that i will be fine

[snow dove]

you can’t surpass the pipe throughput limit, no

[oblique notch]

Yes, but it's a capacity system so you can add more mid pipe

[median heath]

Gotta stop thinking about pipes in terms of belts.

For starters, they do not have mergers.

[coral onyx]

sorry junction

[median heath]

I'm not even being technical about the term here.
I am referring to how junctions function in comparison.
You cannot think about them like splitters/mergers because that is not how they operate.

On belts, items go where directed.
In pipes, fluid goes where it can.

[coral onyx]

im just trying to think of the most simply way of explaining what i want to accomplish

[tired viper]

Why is that not pumping? >_>

[median heath]

Because it is full.

[tired viper]

But the refineries are full too, but not working

[jolly ingot]

Can you send a screenshot of the refineries?

[median heath]

Check the Refinery output then.

[tired viper]

The refineries with the ehavy oil residue are not pumping fuel either

the fuel tanks are not full

there's energy everywhere

[jolly ingot]

.

[tired viper]

oh, srroy

one sec

What wou wanna see, the layout or the refineri screen?

[jolly ingot]

Just the UI, I'd hope you have set the correct number of them...

[jolly ingot]

Like this

Nope the internal panel

[median heath]

So that is also full.

Which means the problem is further down the line while where said fuel is going.

[tired viper]

But the tanks ain't full

[median heath]

Cringing at "ain't" aside...
Then that means the issue is between the Refinery and the Tanks.

[jolly ingot]

You sure everything is connected properly?

[frosty owl]

1 coupon on lack of pumps to fill the buffers

[median heath]

Fair.

Especially if using IFBs.

[jolly ingot]

The tanks aren't higher than the refineries right?

[tired viper]

No, same level

[frosty owl]

Do you have any pumps between the refineries and the buffers?

[coral onyx]

do i need buffers?

[frosty owl]

What are you doing that could require buffers?

[tired viper]

No, I don't have pumps

[coral onyx]

litterialy learning the game

[frosty owl]

Try placing one and power it, so you can make sure it's not a headlift issue (the pump says how much headlift is being used)

[jolly ingot]

If you have no pumps or valves just check that all pipes are connected, go through them from the refineries to the tanks and check when they start being empty

[jolly ingot]

It looks like he is using platforms, it should all be at the exact same level...

[tired viper]

Ok, found the tank that's not filling

Don't get why is not filling tho

[jolly ingot]

Please do this

[tired viper]

Yes, I'll do this

[frosty owl]

Buffers hold a lot of items and they can input/output them as fast as the logistics connected allow.
They can have a variety of uses, like buffering inconsistent input/outputs, storing items for later, fashion, control over how full systems are...

[tired viper]

But I would like to understand why this one is not filling. Seems weird

[frosty owl]

Did you try checking wether the headlift is enough or not?

[tired viper]

I'm not sure how to check that. but the other tanks in the same inclination are filling ok

[jolly ingot]

...

[median heath]

Problem located.

[jolly ingot]

I asked you if they were all on the same level before...

[tired viper]

No, that's not the problem, that's actually filling

[frosty owl]

This is how you can check for headlift. Pumps show the headlift required by the fluid to reach the highest point in the pipeline (it needs the fluid to reach there, so it won't work with empty pipes)

[frosty owl]

Note: if a screenshot isn't abundantly clear about the context of the factory, assumptions tend to be frequently incorrect. It's worth always checking the basics (especially before suggesting "distructive" approaches like rebuilding!)

In this case, only a part of the buffers were in screenshot
Another giveaway were the pipes that could be partially seen above the buffer, but I didn't assume on those... It's just that placing a pump to check is quite simple

[tired viper]

But then why is one upper tank getting filled without a pump?

And the other needs a pump? The pipes have the same inclination

[jolly ingot]

Yeah I was not not referring to the screenshot but to this message and no one said anything about rebuilding

[tired viper]

Sorry, I understood same level like...same floor. Now I see you ment same height, sorry.

[jolly ingot]

Refineries have a bit of headlift but not enough to get to the top of that

[coral onyx]

you have 10 buffers?

[jolly ingot]

Don't worry you just have to add some pumps for the upper levels that isn't that big of a deal

[frosty owl]

People's descriptions are (often) even less reliable then screenshots
But yes, I misunderstood your "check all" with "rebuild all", sorry

[tired viper]

Now the far right has the pump

[coral onyx]

30 buffers, impressive

[frosty owl]

If you place a pump before the buffers, it'll tell you what the problem is... If it won't be fixed by one pump already, that is

[tired viper]

Because the left one have the same inclination and "size" and was filling the uppertank

[frosty owl]

... This will be the last time I'll be writing "place a pump before the buffer" today

[tired viper]

...I assumed that always would be the case with that "formation"

[jolly ingot]

Well I'll leave you guys to it, it's half past midnight and I have work tomorrow. Bye

[tired viper]

I mean, I don't even understand why one can do it and the other don't

Byebye

[frosty owl]

The fluid fills the system from the bottom up

[tired viper]

Yes, but I thought it would take the tank as "starting" point

Well, live and learn

[frosty owl]

How many pumps do you have, just 2?

[oblique notch]

Why?

What are you saving all that fuel for?

[tired viper]

Just 1

But now is working fine

[oblique notch]

Why are you just not immediately putting it into a generator or packaging it for vehicles?

[tired viper]

...Because I haven't unlocked that yet

xD

And I'm not trying to save it...just trying to make the refineries work longer before stopping

But as for right now I can'd handle the fuel

[frosty owl]

As a tip for the future, I suggest connecting the buffers in "layers" rather then "columns". You get what I mean?

[oblique notch]

Dont... you unlock fuel generators at the same time you unlock the fuel recipe?

[tired viper]

Nope

[tired viper]

Yes, long lines instead of tall lines >_>

[frosty owl]

Fuel is with plastic/rubber. Fuel Gens are with MK4 logistics, after manufacturers

[frosty owl]

Easier to handle and less weird headlift nuances 👍

[oblique notch]

Huh. Weird

[tired viper]

Indeed

I like tacky tall thingies

But man, I hate the pump

[frosty owl]

Tbf, you really don't want to push players to handcraft HMFs... (unlocking Fuel Gens before Manuf)

[oblique notch]

Also, I f'ing hate Fandom, got 3 videos trying to play while looking up fuel milestone. @deft lichen please tell me getting the hell off that invasive money grabbing privacy invading site is at least in discussion?

[oblique notch]

But what are you going to do with Fuel the? You can't burn it and you can't package it yet...

[nocturne ridge]

not that this is a solution, but my dude get ublock origin asap

[oblique notch]

It's been forever... is it used in plastic?

[coral onyx]

MK2 pumps look nicer

[tired viper]

No, it's "made" to prevent the refineries to stop due the residues

[frosty owl]

I thought by "weird" you were referring to having Fuel Gens after Manufacturers

[oblique notch]

Oh on my desktop Fandom is blocked up left and right. On mobile theyve switched some things so my piHole isnt catching as much as it used too and not as good blocking options on mobile

[frosty owl]

Lots of storage = lots of production time with one flush

[oblique notch]

But I also despise Fandom for their absolute horrible practices. I run a pair of wiki's for a board game company and Fandom had been trying to snap visitors their way to their inferior and outdated wiki for ages.

(The pair I run are not on Fandom Thank god.)

Anyways wrong channel.

@tired viper that makes sense. I wouldn't have bothered yet but it's your world you do tou

[vapid gorge]

Turn the residue into coke and sink it? The very reason the sink exists

[frosty owl]

No, the reason is 🍣

[median heath]

Turn the Residue into Coke and make it into free power.

[vapid gorge]

Eh, you often need to change up your early oil processes, so can’t really count on it staying. Plus linking power production and material production? Heresy

[frosty owl]

I used to use excess fuel to power recycled plubber setups, back when generators still produced only as much as consumed...

[pseudo cedar]

is that more efficient than turning it into fuel? assuming base fuel recipe for the moment

[median heath]

No, but when you start oil you don't have fuel gens.

Basic oil setup feeds 18 Coal Gens with the byproduct and produces more power than it consumes./

[pseudo cedar]

that's pretty nice

how about a basic setup with fuel gens? curious not trying to contradict or anything

[median heath]

I don't have one offhand, as I now skip Fuel until T7 when I have Blenders.

[pseudo cedar]

at that point I would rush straight to nuc

[sand epoch]

Nuclear overrated

[pseudo cedar]

and I play slow enough that I would need oil gens or to spread across the entire map hooking up coal'

[pseudo cedar]

what?

now that's a controversial opinion and a half

[median heath]

How do you rush nuclear?

[sand epoch]

Carefully

[median heath]

Fuel with Blenders = simple, easy, good.
Nuclear = I am not turning it online until I have everything from Uranium Ore to Plutonium Rods ready to go.

I don't mess with nuclear until it is waste-free.
And I highly doubt you can "rush" to plutonium production.

[pseudo cedar]

we lived with nuc waste before and we can do so again

[median heath]

"we"?

[sand epoch]

And you have time to watch the waste processing for backups... lol

[sand epoch]

Lies

[pseudo cedar]

the game didn't have plutonium at all for a good bit

[median heath]

And I didn't do nuclear at all for a good bit 🙂

[sand epoch]

And that's why nuclear was never a need.

[pseudo cedar]

just set up the waste processing line to be slightly faster than the nuc reactor output and it'll all be gone soon enough

[median heath]

No, because then yellow lights.

[pseudo cedar]

then turn them off/delete them after

[median heath]

@sand epoch seriously? ORANGE square??

[median heath]

Or just... build it right the first time 🤷‍♂️

[sand epoch]

🙂

[pseudo cedar]

good to overestimate in case CSS changes waste processing in the future anyway

[median heath]

Never a problem if you start fresh on every major update like I do.

[pseudo cedar]

okay well my advice works for everyone who
-doesn't mind waste buildup that will eventually be gone
-doesn't mind a few yellow lights
-wants to futureproof
so, quite a few of the people here

like I get sinking plutonium rods in the interest of theoretical infinite repeatability

(even if you'll restart before it becomes a problem anyway)

but very few people are as exacting as you with this

[wind spade]

by the same logic you have to overbuild everything everywhere and also have all other resources available in case recipe changes

[pseudo cedar]

I get your point but if your iron plates back up nobody cares

if nuc backs up you have to go into your radioactive hellscape and fix it while running through filters like a madman

being able to fix it while your waste is still being handled would be far less stressful

[wind spade]

radiation is hardly such a big problem

you'd need decades for radiation to ever become a big problem

[pseudo cedar]

then you've stopped arguing with me at the "having a bit of waste stocked up for a bit isn't a big deal in the slightest" point

if the potential solution to a problem you don't consider problematic involves something you disagree with just don't solve it

[median heath]

Anyone who "doesn't mind yellow lights"....

Heresy.

[median heath]

I care.

[wind spade]

umm what? I don't agree you should prepare for things because of updates

[pseudo cedar]

comparatively which would you mind more?

plates or nuc waste

[median heath]

There is no "more".
It's equal. Back up is back up. The item involved is irrelevant to me.

[pseudo cedar]

yes and that point was a response to the point that holding a ton of nuc waste in storage was a bad thing

[wind spade]

I mean... it's not "bad" as much, but it's pointless to do (unless you're just storing it without processing)

[pseudo cedar]

exactly

under this hypothetical i'm setting up nuc the moment I can get it

that means no processing

maybe once i'm done creating prod lines i'll set something up to clear out the extras

but for the time being my concern is no longer having any concerns about power

[wind spade]

and I don't disagree with that?

idk where you got that "disagree with"

[pseudo cedar]

you disagree with setting up wiggle room to deal with the excess slowly

[wind spade]

no?

[pseudo cedar]

.

you disagree with the "oh it might get updated anyway" thing

[wind spade]

I disagree with "preparing for possible future changes"

[pseudo cedar]

which was an additional benefit

so fair enough

[wind spade]

they way you worded it, it sounded like "I want to consume more because they may change it in the future"

[pseudo cedar]

sorry

[wind spade]

which I disagree with as you can never prepare for everything

[pseudo cedar]

meant consume more to
1: deal with the stocked up waste
2: deal with the stocked up waste
3: deal with the stocked up waste
...
1000: deal with the stocked up waste
1001: prepare for a future update

just an added benefit if CSS changes it that slightly

[wind spade]

which I doubt they will, they know very well that they can't change nuclear by a small amount

[pseudo cedar]

no they're not the type to nerf slightly

[wind spade]

if a change will happen, it will most likely be part of planned recipe rebalance which will change most recipes anyway

[pseudo cedar]

I think we're overdue for another one in 1.0

what was the last one U4?

I basically only have 3 things I want for 1.0. new recipes, a new seasonal event, and more copper nodes

those pastas are expensive

maybe an alt- "iron pasta"

[wind spade]

mine are:

• remove hypertube cannon (and possibly add better option like hypertube boosters)
• reduce time needed to spend in T1-2 (or move coal earlier)
• slightly buff DPF/slightly nerf DF (obviously a full rebalance would be even better but at least this)

[pseudo cedar]

-patched in U8, likely that they’ll find a more official way of doing it
-maybe when t9 and 10 drop, 1 and 2 will be in skip onboarding. Plz?
-fair

[wind spade]

iirc they said they are re-adding it?

I don't want t1-2 to be skippable, but I want to incentivise user earlier to move to automated sources of power. The game plays out great as "do everything at your own pace and in any way you want", except for t1-2 where you're kinda forced to build small, progress fast and get to coal asap to actually have decent power. And since t1-2 are basically introduction phases teaching players basics, it only makes sense to make the player feel nice in those phases and not forcing them to gather leaves to keep their factory alive

[frail light]

kill animals and harvest for maximum biomass creation

[wind spade]

that still doesn't solve the issue

the issue isn't "get a lot of biomass", the issue is "you should be teaching player new things, not forcing them to gather tons of stuff to even keep the factory alive"

[frail light]

it does actually force you to learn early production lines though and not just run around doing Fortnite like reactions. as hand crafting and biomass are so frustrating for large builds that you kind of need to leave it for a more major plan later if they let you automate it then most would spend way to long on it as opposed to progressing down the path of planetary exploitation. as recipes are fairly equal with no weird numbers early it keeps it simple while giving you something to do while waiting on production lines

[wind spade]

while that's partially true, it also gives the player less room to experiment with different things

which is a very important step in tutorials

I'm not saying we should remove the whole no-coal phase, but I'm saying I'd shorten it a bit

also a lot of players get out of the phase with thought of saving power where possible and handcraft stuff instead of automating it

[frail light]

you can do lots of experimenting at that stage i spent 10 plus hours in the early game with 6 or so constructors and 6 biomass burners trying out manifolds and foundations with 3 miners one for each resource

iron copper and limestone to be specific

[frail light]

yeah they do but then they get to coal power and need to automate everything as it takes to long otherwise and that is when thhey learn to balance power to production needs

[wind spade]

I don't have that feeling, especially from many people asking here

tons of people are still handcrafting materials even at T5

[frail light]

then they aren't experimenting as stated earlier and they wouldn't even if you made biomass automated. as once you have stable power then you really can do anything you want with your factory

and they aren't if they are still handcrafting in teir 5

[wind spade]

it's that they haven't been shown the value of automation, as early the more you automate, the more the game punishes you (until T3)

[frail light]

it doesn't punish you it gives you trade offs. so you can spend time gathering biomass or crafting the items by hand that is your trade off and in early game it may feel faster to handcraft items but it actually is faster to automate your construction and collect biomass as you can only build one thing at a time. like all the alts there are trade offs.

[wind spade]

it kinda does tho. New people need time to understand stuff and it's kinda hard to focus on a task when you have a timer that basically says "you have to let everything be and mow some grass otherwise you can't progress"

[frail light]

there are tips given at every step of the way if you start with the landing that teach you automation and power management as well as handcrafting things. this gives you time to learn first with handcrafting resource requirements then power requirements and you get to choose which you would prefer. it is in tier zero milestone four i believe that you first get introduced to power. then the remaining milestones of power that let you keep advancing your understanding in a small amount of power requirements. you can hand craft through the early stages and bypass the learning or learn and spend very little time "mowing grass"

bypassing the tutorial always makes the game harder as you miss out on key opportunity's to learn interesting things like hotkeys

[elder cypress]

I think the biomass burner should be replaced with a coal burner that uses just coal but has to be hand fed.
Or a way to regrow biomass in a contained space so you aren't having to worry about a biomass hunt.

[pseudo cedar]

the speedrunning server would consider that optimal

and it technically is if you're still setting up production lines for most of the time

also, you have no idea how many burners we have set up before coal comes up

[young coyote]

Re: incentivizing/teaching early game automation - in Factorio you can tap a key and at a glance see the (net?) production of various goods across your world. 3k/min iron ore, 200/min widgets, etc.

What if, to advance out of one or more of the Project Phases you also had to reach a minimum average production of X/min of some basic items from that phase - an amount that isn't mega-factory level, but clearly beyond your ability to craft by hand?

Nudge the player into creating a production chain for basic or intermediate components, and the rest may follow naturally.

[vapid gorge]

why lock people into a game play style?

[median heath]

This idea but make it a per/min of Project Parts to make the belt inputs on the Space Elevator actually make sense. 🤷‍♂️

[young coyote]

Yeah, that could work, too.

[vapid gorge]

plus in factorio I think you only have a single option for recipes?
In satisfactory when you get to Steel you can never smelt another iron ingot again

[young coyote]

Maybe an optional (but visible) achievement or somesuch?

[vapid gorge]

I still think it would lead people down a narrow form of production. Making it linear to what items they need to produce

like there are so many recipes in game that you can very early on completely cut out
Iron Ingots
Screws
Iron rods

And still make everything in the game

[vapid gorge]

Plus I find a very good way to progress is to make sure you have containers of items on hand to make short term space part processing very quickly when they are unlocked

[true junco]

well... if you use walkways/catwalks/ladders, you will still definitely need those iron rods.

but you really only need a small set up for that

and a container. lol

[vapid gorge]

can always hand craft a stack or two - don't need to automate them on a permanent basis.
Or even like 1 machine sloooowly pumping out items

[prisma kraken]

you really only need to make 10-20/min of the basic iron parts outside of more complicated prod chains

like late game, taking 60 ore and tossing it into 2 smelters followed by 3 constructors for plate/rod/cast screw is enough for building materials

(funny how that's pretty much the intro iron phase 0 build 😉 )

[cedar mica]

In most cases, 1 machine making stuff for storage, is enough. Yes, even for concrete, as it depends on how close your storage is to where you are building and what you are building.

[oblique hollow]

1 Refinery making wet concrete

[oblique notch]

And how much you build. I have 4 constructors making concrete just for storage, and still it doesn't always refilnbefore I'm back for more. But I also build a lot of decorations for each build so yeah.

But in general, I'd say 15-30 is my usual go to goal for most build requirement parts. Less for high tier ones

[wind brook]

300 nuclear waste per minute can i produce 5 plutoium rods

[cinder silo]

I get 5.25 plutonium rods from 1050 waste, though I use the default recipe for waste disposal.

[wind brook]

Yeah i think so satis tools says its enough for my work

But it wants 20 alternative recipes

I can open some of in calculator i think

[tired viper]

what seems better?

any siggestion? I just started with crude oil.

[hardy kraken]

prolly resin if u started oil

[upper cave]

I have never found PolyResin to be very useful. Almost always the Heavy Residue alt is better for various oil products. From this group I would pick either the CatCircuitBoard or the Wire. The CatCB is useful if you have more caterium than quartz available for circuit boards. Likewise the fused wire is mostly useful when you need a lot of wire and have extra caterium sitting around not being used for quickwire.

[median heath]

Poly's very useful if you're trying to maximize Fabric production 😄

[median heath]

2

[true junco]

If you are just sinking it, the fabric is worth way more points than the resin...

[median heath]

Run your trucks on the Fabric 🙂

[true junco]

Lol

[upper cave]

So same energy value as leaves and it only stacks to 100?

[true junco]

Oh. He meant the alt for lots of PR. No.. i dont care for that one either. But the resin biproduct of the HOR alt, is what i was thinking about.

Mine goes to rubber refineries. Which feed into recycled plastic. And the plastic to making containers for the Diluted Packaged Fuel line, which i switched off once i had enough containers. When both storages of plastic and rubber are filled the resin overflows to making fabric. Which is being sunk at the moment. Will divert to making various PPE items when i get back over there. Filters, chutes, etc.

[round moon]

2

[lunar jewel]

I've got a weird situation and I dont know which chat to post my problem in, has to do with splitters and odd numbered constructer inputs. is this the chat or would it be the satisfactory discussion channel? I've got the problem question copied

[young coyote]

Either/or

I have a feeling the answer is going to be "manifolds."

[lunar jewel]

?

[young coyote]

Just a hunch. Ask your question, though! We're here to help.

[lunar jewel]

alright, its sort of long just to explain what I've got hooked up

[young coyote]

Go for it. If you have any pics you need to post, just say so in the question, and paste them into #screenshots

[lunar jewel]

might do that as well if needed

I have 3 constructers that are fed by 2 smelters. this entire things for baseline 100% production frameworks btw. the smelters are underclocked to produce 24 each so 48 and the top 3 constructers need a total of 48 iron a minute, but the problem I've got is that one constructer is making 36 screws per min which takes 9 rods (9 ingots) the second one is making 12 rods just for plain feeding into the frame assembler, and the third constructer needs 27 ingots per min. the splitter splits evenly which doesnt work but I don't have a way to make it split the way I need it. is there a way or a mechanic in the game that allows you to select how much gets split through each channel in the splitter or do I just need to make 3 seperate smelters?

[young coyote]

So the answer to the question "is there a way or a mechanic in the game that allows you to select how much gets split through each channel in the splitter" is "No, not with basic Splitters or Smart Splitters." A basic splitter will split evenly 50/50 between two outputs, or 33/33/33 (plus rounding) for 3 outputs.

HOWEVER with a specific arrangement of splitters/mergers that feed back into themselves, you can make a "balancer" that sends specific ratios in different directions, like "25% of the output this way, 75% of the output that way" and more complex configurations.

But, as predicted, I think that the answer you're looking for is going to be to use "manifolds."

This is where you have a single given product, let's say iron ingots, that is being produced at a rate of X/minute and consumed by some number of machines at X/minute or less. What you do is send a single belt of that product into a splitter with 2 outputs - one to the first machine that needs it, and the second to another splitter. That second splitter has 2 outputs - the second machine that needs the product, and then a third splitter. You repeat the process, with each splitter in sequence sending to another machine that needs the input product, and also to the next splitter in the chain.

Hook up all the machines to power and their input belts but not their output belts. Let the input run long enough, and eventually your first machine will fill up with its output product, and its (unused) input product, and can accept no more input. Now the 50% of that first split that it was receiving will continue to flow down the chain, filling your second machine, then your third, and so on.

Now, your manifold is "saturated" and you can hook up your output belts from these machines.

As long as your input product doesn't decrease in throughput (i.e. you don't split off to other machines, or underclock any upstream producers) your machines will continue to operate at 100% efficiency, possibly feeding into additional manifolds themselves.

You can help speed along the initial saturation process if you have some loose input or output items that you can drop into the inventories of these machines.

[lunar jewel]

maybe thats what I just accidentally did partially? I'd probably need to see an image of the setup, I think I sort of know how it looks but I'm unsure. the machine loaded the first 2 so now it seems its running ok, I didnt think about them overflowing and then balancing over time but I didnt hook 2 splitters like that

[young coyote]

I think from your description you're trying to make Modular Frames, using Reinforced Iron Plates and Screws? Is that right?

[lunar jewel]

yes

[young coyote]

Yeah, so you'd have 2 smelters outputting iron ingots. These can be merged into a single belt for simplicity. Then build splitters off of the belt leading into your two Iron Rod Constructors and your (however many) Iron Plate Constructors. Make sure that the constructors are over/underclocked to match your exact production needs, or the inflow of ingots can get imbalanced.

The output of Iron Rods can then be merged into a single belt, which is then split off into the Screws Constructor(s) and the Modular Frame Assembler(s). Likewise, the output of Screws can be merged (if you have more than 1) and split off to the Reinforced Iron Plate Assembler(s) and the Modular Frame Assembler(s). As long as the "input" of each machine doesn't exceed the total "output" of a given item, the system will self balance eventually, but you can help it along by "priming" their inventories with the needed input items and output items.

Eventually the system will reach a homeostasis of sorts, as long as the raw resource input (in this case, Iron Ingots) doesn't drop below what's needed. You can increase input (e.g. by smelting more) without upsetting anything, and just split the excess of to another set of machines, even expanding your current setup to make more Modular Frames if desired.

[lunar jewel]

thats almost what I did exactly but I just have 1 splitter with all 3 output ports feeding into each constructer, so the 2 rods are on the left with one taking the front port or the one opposite from the input, the left feeding the other rod, and the third on the right feeding the plates constructer

atleast to me, dont know if I'm getting it wrong but manifolds sounds like a daisy chain of splitters rather than 1 almost

[young coyote]

That can also work - If you use a single splitter to split between 3 machines, when 1 of them fills up on its input inventory, the excess will "overflow" to the other 2 machines. Then when the 2nd fills up, it overflows to the 3rd. The trick is getting them to fill up in the first place. Once that happens, the splitter will form a backlog, and items will only flow through it when a connected machine completes a production cycle and "needs" more of its input.

In your case, a single splitter works because you only have 3 machines. Daisy chaining them is a natural progression when you start having production lines with a dozen or more constructors.

Plus it just looks neat.

[lunar jewel]

I just looked it up and I used that with my coal generators, didnt know it had an actual term or name

[young coyote]

It's fun finding out that we accidentally stumble across an efficient method!

And it's by no means the only way or even the "best" way to do something. Just a popular one, and relatively easy to implement.

[lunar jewel]

true, first time I've asked for help on something in this game so far. I just figured out the water tower method thing for coal generators just 30 mins ago which was originally for a funny look until it actually just worked. welp thanks for the help on understanding what was happening, hope you have a good day/night

[oblique notch]

!wikisearch manifolds

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifolds

[oblique notch]

Oh stupid me

!wikisearch Manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Manifold

[oblique notch]

There. Some pictures 🙂

[versed violet]

[screams]
Thats very useless recipe. Only time you ever need resin is making cloth, in all other cases its a waste product that people sink. You could make rubber out of it, but making rubber straight from oil is obviously better. Only use resin to make rubber if its leftover from heavy oil.

[hardy kraken]

well ok

[wind spade]

is it? 92 oil -> 100 rubber with that recipe, compared to 150 oil -> 100 rubber with vanilla rubber recipe

[versed violet]

This is an interesting observation.
Higher building count to get minimally more rubber.
It is still beaten by the recycled rubber loop. And in that last case you will have a lot of waste resin that can be turned into more rubber.

[cedar mica]

600 crude into 600-ish rubber or 400 rubber, is not minimally more.

[wind spade]

I mean obviously diluted recycled loop beats everything in terms of resource efficiency, but resource-wise the PR alt path is better than vanilla rubber

also it's not that much higher building count 😄 for 1000 rubber it's 72 vs 67

you'll get less byproduct HOR tho, so it's up to you if that's advantage or disadvantage

[cedar mica]

Cable can be made with both HOR and Rubber, so probably a great recipe for making lots of Cable.

[prisma kraken]

derp, was posting on something far in past

i'm wondering what the use-case for that hor+wire recipe actually is

[fierce ruin]

automated wiring?

copper deficiency id assume

[prisma kraken]

yeah, there's just not much that uses cable recipe-wise... everything involving cable has a better alt

[true junco]

Im curious about all the retrograde oil recipies in general. Like i get ramping up any products, but i find it hard to imagine needing to stretch Iron plates and cables with petroleum products when there is 70k/min of iron on the map...

[prisma kraken]

there's some spots on the map that have a concentration of one thing and a dirth of another

[true junco]

Idk. I can make over 10k wire per minute with the 2 caterium nodes and most of the copper in the grassfields. Pure ingots plus Fused wire is so productive its rediculous.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, the fused quick/wire recipes are great

[true junco]

Thats the only thing i can think of. Localized production. But that still feels inefficient. Like, make things in the places they are best made and ship them by rail to where they arent if you need to...

[prisma kraken]

for copper though, i much prefer the copper alloy alt instead of the pure one

[true junco]

I can see that. I mean. Im not using it, but at least it makes sense considering how much iron is available.

[prisma kraken]

its almost the same yield at a fraction of the power

[true junco]

Ah... i always forget about power... lol

[prisma kraken]

like 6 foundries can kick out 600 ingot/min

[true junco]

My default mindset is very much = use all "pure" alts, then go from there.

[prisma kraken]

they burn power tbh

i use the pure copper, caterium & wet concrete ones but quartz & iron, its just wasting power imho

[true junco]

To be fair tho... i like pipes. Many other folks do not. Avoiding pipes except when absolutely necessary is a whole strategy in itself i suppose. Lol

Oh 1000% use a combo of pure quartz and cheap silica right now.

[prisma kraken]

like i'm currently midway through phase 4 and i think i only have 4 smelters making iron ingots, lol

[true junco]

Pure iron, pure copper, pure caterium, pure quartz, wet concrete, steamed sheets...

Might as well call my design philosophy "just add water"

Lmfao

[prisma kraken]

i was honestly just looking at whether there's a point to pure quartz

tbh, i can't find a use case for it

[ember fractal]

I really like Copper Alloy Ingot recipe

[prisma kraken]

copper alloy is in my top 5

[ember fractal]

it's just so space efficient. pure copper produces more per ore, but all those refineries

i can easily make a nice copper alloy blueprint that will produce tons of ingots

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i have one too that doubles up for use with solid steel and coke steel

foundries really like being grouped in 6!

[ember fractal]

i guess it's all situational. if you have copper and iron very close to each other, might as well use the alloy recipe.
if the iron is far, but the copper is very close to water, can use pure copper

[prisma kraken]

sometimes you need the pure copper yield

[ember fractal]

copper powder, we're looking at you

[prisma kraken]

ECR's kinda need fused quickwire

actually copper powder works out exactly with the alloy recipe

[ember fractal]

oh yah? I haven't got that far yet

[prisma kraken]

yeah, let me find a picture of pasta

[ember fractal]

I'm currently working on 45 HMF / m

Using all kinds of alt recipes.
I need 1590 coal, and 1620 limestone.
Not too bad.
At the end of it all, 16 manufacturers, pumping out 45 HMF

I'll do 2 rows of 8 manufacturers

[prisma kraken]

i just did a 30 hmf/min build that kicks off a lot of by-product

[ember fractal]

You think I should use iron wire + stitched plate?
Or use the vanilla wire recipe?

[ember fractal]

damn, not bad
the encased industrial beams is the expensive part.
I need to make 150 / m, but that requires 1050 steel pipe and 750 concrete

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they're get ya

i'm noodling another design for a factory in rocky desert that'll be around 60/min

[ember fractal]

I'm setting up all the steel production here. Will just be making steel pipes.

[ember fractal]

There's a couple pure limestone nodes there, so I'll do wet concrete at that lake, and then combine with steel pipes to get my 150 encased beams

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you need either wet concrete or rubber concrete to do HMF's

[ember fractal]

wet concrete is one of my favs

[prisma kraken]

either that or set up a concrete factory somewhere

[ember fractal]

just a handful of refineries, but you get tons of concrete.

[prisma kraken]

i just did the math on this

2 pure limestone + 1 normal limestone = 18 refineries = 2x720 concrete/min

[ember fractal]

should be enough

If Mk3 miners OCed, that's 780+780+600 = 2160 limestone

[prisma kraken]

i swear, anything you really need except bauxite and uranium you can find on the north forest cliff, lol

yeah, it works out to exactly 18 refineries

[ember fractal]

yep, 1440 concrete
can do 2 rows of 9 refineries, and get 2 belts of 720

i might just do that

[prisma kraken]

twin lakes is a great spot

i've never built there, being honest

[ember fractal]

me neither, first time

a bit of an elevation change battle

[prisma kraken]

i only did a grass fields start in my first play-through

[ember fractal]

same here

my 2nd playthrough was dune desert

[prisma kraken]

and when i did that, i went in the direction of lakeforest & blue crater unwisely

that was quite a mistake, being honest

but grass fields just sucks as a starting spot, lol

[ember fractal]

yeh, low quality nodes, and lack of some other good materials

my biggest mistake was thinking i can easily expand from dune desert into toxic swamp lol

[prisma kraken]

i'll say lack of quartz is the main thing

you always do end up in the swamp eventually, lol

[ember fractal]

yeh, i set up a nice aluminum plant there

[prisma kraken]

i use it for nuclear

[ember fractal]

was gonna do that as well, but moved into my 3rd playthrough

[prisma kraken]

i like power builds (whatever the tech) to be self-contained

and the swamp has everything needed for nuclear

[versed violet]

iron is so common you will have hard time making a pure copper factory that does not cover an iron node beneath it.

[prisma kraken]

well spoken truth

[true junco]

ive literally just finished with a big set up there. Making steel pipes and Encased Industrial Beams.

Used Pure Iron Ingot into Solid Steel Ingot, as well as Compacted Steel Ingot. Cranking out about 3000 Steel pipes a minute. Using Encased Industrial Pipe alt for the EIBs. I really need to bring in more concrete to get the EIBs up tho.

[prisma kraken]

i've really been trying to find a use for pure quartz

[ember fractal]

For my current playthrough, this is my plan for aluminum.
If you notice all bauxite nodes are kinda spread along the "equator".
I want 2 train lines. One bringing all bauxite from west side into middle, and another from east side into middle.

I will use the lake there, along with alt recipes to create one giant aluminum factory.

What do you think?

[versed violet]

when you used lot of it for silica to max alu and need to compensate

[prisma kraken]

the thing is it doesn't play nice with the numbers for either oscillator recipe

[versed violet]

YES

[prisma kraken]

That location is a pita to build in, its rather radioative and full of the big spiders

[true junco]

I use it. But ive only utilized 2 nodes of quartz at once spot for the moment.

[versed violet]

Actually, you can make an oval loop to catch the bauxite nodes instead of line that goes back and forth with side belts.

[ember fractal]

True, then I can even put the aluminum plant in the ocean

[prisma kraken]

I'm thinking of doing that and pulling it all into crater lakes

[versed violet]

mine is at the upper node, flat and easy water access.

[ember fractal]

Yeh, there are a few bodies of water in that area that can be used.
I also need a bunch of oil, because I'll be using the alt that uses coke

[prisma kraken]

you're probably one of those people that uses the oversized inventory cheat, right?

[versed violet]

I'll show you a diagram if scim manages to load my oversized save

[ember fractal]

Yes, I use the 300 slot one I think, don't remember.
But I hate running back to base when I'm doing big builds

[versed violet]

personal drones. and bring train for planned builds obv. it also gives power for hoverpak

[prisma kraken]

which is why that location is difficult to build in

[ember fractal]

I'm basically a walking mall lmao

[prisma kraken]

such mods really do drastically change the game

[true junco]

Figuring out logistics is a big part of the game for me. I find fun in the solving of the problems like that.

[versed violet]

A schematics for you. Middle is the 6.5 modules alu factory, all bauxite from the map processed there.
Above it (down the cliff) is 3 oil nodes where i make all the coke and belt it back.
I have 2 train loops, one oval on left with 4 stations and one bidirectional on right with 3 stations.
The 4 central bauxite nodes are belted into the factory, rest goes via train..

[ember fractal]

That's really nice!

Aite, Ima hop on satisfactory for a bit and then go to sleep
C ya

[prisma kraken]

i'm sorta building at it all from a different direction

[ember fractal]

oh i see

[prisma kraken]

atm i just have rudimentary aluminum up for mk5 belts and handcrafting

[versed violet]

so did I, with 5 baxite refineries and 3 scrap refineries for a looong time

then decided to make something bigger, use the 4 central nodes.
Then the desgn kinda cascaded from there

[prisma kraken]

i just have sloppy->default with 3 refineries each

[versed violet]

sloppy+electrode gives highest yield per bauxite i think.

I'm using pure ingot for now, but if I need more in future, I can always ship some silica and convert to forges.

[prisma kraken]

its kicking off 225 casings & 180 sheets + 60 tanks for me atm, which is all i need until i get into batteries

i plan on using sloppy/electro/pure when i rebuild it

i just don't need alum right now for more than belts and blenders

[versed violet]

put the forges into separate building, so you can expand to use silica recipe if needed

[prisma kraken]

i have no plans on using the silica recipe

[versed violet]

yet

[prisma kraken]

that's a pain to use (1) and (2) you don't need that much aluminum!

[versed violet]

I need a lot to bottle all nitrogen on the map

[prisma kraken]

RCU's are going to require a lot of casings, but i should be able to cover that with 1800-2400 bauxite with sloppy+electro

why? once you make fluid tanks you don't throw them away unless you're using turbo pressure motor

[versed violet]

turbo pleasure motor is most energy efficient recipe

[prisma kraken]

it is, but how many turbomotors are you planning on building?

[versed violet]

All. Of. Them. 🤣

[prisma kraken]

i mean, i'm shooting for a number with that of btw 16-40 turbomotors/min

and that's less than 240 fluid tanks/min that i need to make

whats a little painful is i need about 11,000 alum casings/min

and that isn't taking into account the ones needed for cooling systems

yeah, its closer to 15000 casings

[versed violet]

is that actually achievable?

[prisma kraken]

its actually not too bad:

[versed violet]

ah, the alclad casing

[prisma kraken]

its actually right around where my estimate of 1800-2400 bauxite sat

that's really not bad at all

and i can use the rubber recipe for HOR instead to combine for heatsinks

[versed violet]

you have some waste resin, make that into rubber first?

[prisma kraken]

i sorta have a rough plan outlined for the entire playthrough

if i use the rubber recipe, it yields more rubber and half the HOR

[versed violet]

but do you need that much rubber?

[prisma kraken]

which is fine, i wouldn't be doing anything else with the oil anyway... i think there's something like 1200 oil there

for heatsinks, i do

yeah, its about 20k rubber i need

[versed violet]

there is probably enough oil on the map to pad production of everything else, if you can be bothered

[prisma kraken]

really at this point its just being frugal with which biomes i leave untouched for nuclear power 🙂

i think i'm going to need to tap 2 of the uranium nodes

[versed violet]

you expect to use more than 80GW of power?

[prisma kraken]

yes

i know it'll be more than 75gw

right now i'm running on about 24 gw of coal/geotherm and tiny bit of fuel

[versed violet]

you might as well tap all 4 nodes and be done with it in one go

[prisma kraken]

have you ever built nuclear?

it took me about a month to build a u600 plant in my last save

[versed violet]

Do you see the big red blotch under alu factory?
#math-and-meta message
Thats my plutonium processing facility.

[prisma kraken]

i don't feel like spending more time on it than i need to

i'm guessing that power needs are going to be around 150 gw

kind of tough to nail down until i build more factory

[versed violet]

greeny calc will give you estimate

my alu factory for all bauxite on the map uses 10GW total

[ember fractal]

lol, with the way I overclock, Ima need at least 80 GW

a lot of my blueprints are of the overclock variety

[versed violet]

why overclock?

and first thing you are going to run out of is slugs

[ember fractal]

less machines, more compact

[prisma kraken]

i'll stand by oc'ing miners, water extractors, coal generators and nuke reactors

rest of things i'd rather uc to get good ratios and splits

[versed violet]

I'm ok with overclocking a last machine in row if its less than 40%

[prisma kraken]

i abhor having one machine in a row at a different clock speed

[noble timber]

Power shards are infinite anyway

Overclocking means less machines which also means less lag as well

[frosty owl]

I like to clock either all one row the same, or having just one machine clocked differently (so I can check that machine immediatly and assume the state of the rest)

[tired viper]

Once you start making Fuel Generator Factories, do you erase Coal Factories to have more coal for other things, or you mantain them?

Is worth mantaining old energy sources with each new tier?

[vapid gorge]

why bother unless you really need the resources you're burning? extra power and if something happens to one gen you can boost it with the other

[wind spade]

there's like 30k coal available on the map, I doubt you'll have issues with some of it going to coal power

[prisma kraken]

keep your coal plants around

unless you really need the coal for something else, its useful to keep them running

also, decently constructed coal plants actually can produce a good chunk of power compared to fuel

if you OC an 8+3 coal plant to 250%, it'll yield 1.5 gw

[rustic patio]

I'd recommend overclocking a lot, I don't think anyone has ever ran out of electricity but you can eventually run out of computing power

Less machines == less lag

[prisma kraken]

OC'ing should be used where it makes sense... definitely on miners, its foolish to tap a node and not use all of it

but on power, it saves time building and the resources

[tired viper]

I need to find more slugs then...

[prisma kraken]

they really are everywhere

probably easiest place to find them is dune desert

at night, they just kinda pop out of the landscape in DD

[tired viper]

In a couple of days I will unlock trains. I already know what's Manifold. But I read something about "Train Manifold" for moving lots of resources and I can't figure out what means

[prisma kraken]

i haven't heard that term before

[vapid gorge]

is it from reddit? prob best to try to ignore things from there

[tired viper]

It is

[prisma kraken]

i've used a technique of daisy chaining freight stations together

that may be what it means

[tired viper]

I don't know what is

[prisma kraken]

i wouldn't worry too much about it then

[tired viper]

But I guess trains can move lots of stacks at once, right?

[vapid gorge]

I mean they move lots of items. sure

[prisma kraken]

yeah, trains are very good at reliably moving lots of stuff

[vapid gorge]

but they are still limited by belt for throughput

[prisma kraken]

that's such a bad assertion

[tired viper]

I think in the end moving all resources to the same spot and from there making factories it should be more effective?

[prisma kraken]

you're always limited by belt throughput

[vapid gorge]

Logistically it's a hellish job

[prisma kraken]

that's like saying a mk5 belt is limited by mk5 belt speed, lol

[vapid gorge]

doesn't make it untrue and it's important to make note of it when you see each car dropping off 10,000 items - throughput it still belt limited

[vapid gorge]

But yes - it is a thing you can do - but it's a shit ton of work and if you haven't unlocked everything yet and have a firm idea of what you're doing with it changing it or dealing with higher belt / miner speeds will requires a shit ton more work rebuildiong

[prisma kraken]

yeah, but you're limited on inputing 10k items into the train too

[vapid gorge]

and that's limited by the belts feeding it. You're not making a point and you're once again conflating per minute delivery

[tired viper]

I'm just about to unlock mk4Belt, but i did some basic maths...an mk3 miner OC produces more than you can move with an mk5, right?

[prisma kraken]

correct

[tired viper]

Weird

[prisma kraken]

best you will get out of ONE frieght station is about 1500/min

its 1490ish

[tired viper]

And an mk5 what moves? Arround 800?

[vapid gorge]

means you don't have to spend as much power overclocking to get max out of the miner

from a pure node anyway

[prisma kraken]

however you can split an mk3 miner's output into 2 freight stations and easily get 390 from each car

[vapid gorge]

what??

unless you have a ridiculously long train travel time 1 car can easily do a full belt of items

[prisma kraken]

of course

you're right, i was brain farting

i was thinking 780 & 390 vs 1560 & 780

[tired viper]

What's a freight station?

[prisma kraken]

train stations have freight platforms

they work kind of like truck stations

with 2 outputs & inputs

so you can run 2 mk5 belts in or out of a freight platform

but when a train is docked, the belts stop transfering for ~27 seconds

so you can never quite get 1560 in or out of a frieght platform

it starts to asymptotically approach that number with longer round trip times

but then you run into the train car's capacity

these things are kind of academic math issues, if you keep what your transfering in and out of a train car near what a mk5's limits support, you won't have a problem

[tired viper]

Uhm, trains can only Carry 32 stacks

But trucks 48?

[vapid gorge]

a train car can carry 32. You can have more than 1 car

[prisma kraken]

good luck with the trucks on that,lol

[tired viper]

Oh

[prisma kraken]

yeah, never forget trains can have more than one car

[tired viper]

Ohhh. Duh. How many cars ?

[prisma kraken]

and you can always add trains to a route as well

[vapid gorge]

as many as your engine(s) can move

there's weight and climb angles to consider but often 1 engine to 4 cars is pretty safe

[prisma kraken]

you can do 4 freight cars with a single engine, more cars than that require more engines if climbing inclines

on a level track, i think you can do many more than 4 cars with a single engine, but i've not tested the limits

[tired viper]

Ok

[vapid gorge]

you can do more cars than will ever be practical on a completely flat line.

[tired viper]

Well, today I'll start with fuel burners generators! Let's see what comes next

But this big assemblers for heavy frames and computers...oof

[prisma kraken]

hunt for the encased frame and crystal computer alts

HMF's are kinda an SOB to make any which way you cut it

you get production of them to 10-15/min, you're sitting pretty with phase 3 and 4

[tired viper]

As for now, for unlocking a tier

[vapid gorge]

It's more about the resource types available - final machine speed output just means having more or fewer machines working which ... isn't a big deal generally

[tired viper]

A just have 2 manufacturers with 4 storages and I put by hand what I need

Like a savage

[prisma kraken]

nothing wrong with box factories to get from point a to b

i still have one set up for computers, tbh

but that's also because the plan i'm following in my factory design only requires me to make 8100 computers besides what i need for train building

[tired viper]

Also please

Tell me the industrial storage container have an upgrade

🤞

[prisma kraken]

no, isc's are the biggest

you can daisy chain and stack them though

[tired viper]

i cri evrytim

[prisma kraken]

why do you need bigger storage?

stored product is wasted product

[tired viper]

Thats stacking them on and on, and put lifts to fill the upper ones in what becomes a gargantuan pile of isc that goes over the Sky, filled with an unholy number of screws from the very first impure iron ore mk1 minichain that's been working from the beggining of times?

If yes, i already do that

[prisma kraken]

why?

plan on making 10,000 chainsaws?

[tired viper]

No

But what I need to for the next update? 👀

[prisma kraken]

HINT: screws aren't used much in the late game

[tired viper]

That's what I told myself

[vapid gorge]

unless you use recipes with screws

[tired viper]

And suddenly Heavy and Computers need it

[wind spade]

because you can't know, you can't prepare for it. So just build what you need now

[vapid gorge]

keeping a couple containers of any resource is more than enough to do short term processes when you unlock stuff

[prisma kraken]

yeah, overproducing unneeded stuff is a recipe for burn-out

[wind spade]

(also, if you "prepare" for the update, it takes a lot of fun out of it imo. If there's new things to make and new production lines to set up and all you do is just hook it to prepared containers, it's kinda weird)

[tired viper]

So after filling a isc with...iron plates for example, what you do?

[wind spade]

sink them

[true junco]

Yeah. Thats why i think it helps to look at the project parts and unlocks. You need the parts you need to produce those parts...

[vapid gorge]

or let them back up and save power with your machines sleeping

[wind spade]

every stored item out of the ~30 or so needed are routed via smart splitter to sink 🤷‍♂️ or back up, yeah. But usually sink is the way people go for

[true junco]

Smart splitter them to make RIPS. Keep one container of Iron Plates to dip into when you want to make walkways etc.

[wind spade]

so RIPs are only made if iron plates are backed up? that's weird

[true junco]

Only at one container that you want filled. I think im making thousands of IPs that are going straight to RIPs. Lol

[wind spade]

I'd rather have production to storage work at full time

than to only work if other item is backed up (or work slower when it's not)

if I built the machines, I may as well use them 100% of the time

[prisma kraken]

there's a couple of different philosophies on that

i personally follow one called 'pioneer first'

my product is routed through central storage before other production lines have access to it

this is so i don't have to wait on building materials

[wind spade]

I find that weird. If you use a lot, you hinder other productions as well

[prisma kraken]

and yes, it does stall production of things

[wind spade]

I'd rather have productions separate everywhere. If I'm running out of something, that means I'm not producing enough and I make more, not steal from other production lines

[prisma kraken]

but the things it stalls are temporary factories

[tired viper]

I've been playing only for about 2 weeks

And In my mind I tought it was kinda necessary having a dedicated machine for each element

Just in casd

[prisma kraken]

its like a manufacturer or two that i just set up temporarily to make xyz before i have a chance to create an entire factory for that part

[wind spade]

dedicated production line for each item used in building is pretty decent

no reason to have dedicated production line for like ores or ingots tho

[prisma kraken]

for things that pull off of the main bus lines, they actually have buffers to keep production going as i pull product from storage

[wind spade]

main bus 🤢

[prisma kraken]

i don't do the milehigh of ingots and things like that

[wind spade]

imo main bus is pointless no matter what you put on it

[prisma kraken]

how i structure things is production lines->bus->storage->temporary factories->space elevator parts->sink

[vapid gorge]

nah, just have some of most items shifted into a container for you to grab if you need while you're going up the tiers

[wind spade]

if the "bus" is just to transport things from A to B, then it's not a bus

[prisma kraken]

when things grow in need beyond a single assembler or manufacturer, they go into their own factory and stuff like ingot prod all happens in there

[wind spade]

bus is when you split from it to factories and merge back products, it's a logistics thing, not transportation

[prisma kraken]

i'd have to have a more rigorous definition to classify my design

[wind spade]

something like this is a bus

[prisma kraken]

I'm not sure how you'd quantify this

[vapid gorge]

stacks of belts

[wind spade]

stacked belts, yeah

[prisma kraken]

well, its feeding and merging about 5 factories

[wind spade]

it's purpose is still transportation from A to B

[prisma kraken]

just because you can't see the lines that are merged and split off, i'd still call it a bus

[vapid gorge]

so if you split a line of say qw off it to feed someting does that line come back and merge back to the qw line?

[prisma kraken]

the fact its working on entire factories vs single machines, i don't see a difference

[wind spade]

that's not the difference

[prisma kraken]

it merges into a different line on the bus, i'm doing that with ai limiters

[wind spade]

the difference is that the main bus goes through your entire factory, all the ingredients are taken from the bus and all the products are merged to the bus

[prisma kraken]

the outputs are actually routed to the starting point of a line, not merged back onto the line in-situ

that's why its a big loop

[wind spade]

even worse lol

tons of belts and headache for nothing imo

[prisma kraken]

perhaps a bit overengineered

perhaps not

[undone hull]

there's no such thing as overengineering 😄

[prisma kraken]

we shall see as i progress through phase 4

the volumes of product my plans require are pretty insane, so its probably a little overbuilt, but future me would rather have to much vs too little 🙂

[wind spade]

I'd rather have separate factories that have raw input and fixed output

you never have to touch it again and don't have to deal with busses

(e.g. tracking how much you have left, how much you produce and consume, routing all those belts, etc.)

[true junco]

My machines on those lines are working 100% up until the end of the manufacturing chain where construction is still happening. In theory they eventually will run 100% when i start sinking the final overflow after the last project parts are built...

But anyways, i only have one spot in all the lines where a product is prioritized to a single regular container for "build gun ammo" because if i build everything right and that isnt prioritized they will never refill. Lol

[tired viper]

Any suggestion?

[snow dove]

third one

by a lot

one of the best alts in the game

[tired viper]

yeah?

what

[snow dove]

makes basically everything related to oil more efficient

[tired viper]

I just unlocked fuel about now. isn't that just making residues tho?

[ember fractal]

You need residue to make all the good stuff

[tired viper]

ohm

Well, I'm high on rotors and the secons one seems...super weak. So I already was about to pick third. but nice to see is a good one!

[snow dove]

HOR is how you get the best fuel recipe in the game

[tired viper]

I tought I picked with Iron Wire :'D

[ember fractal]

Iron wire is good too

Is 120 crystal osc / m overkill?

[snow dove]

no

[ember fractal]

Ok, because I have the plan all ready to make 120/m

[snow dove]

best of luck to you

with the base recipe that’s 120 manufacturers

[ember fractal]

I know

I think I'll do 4 rows of 30

[snow dove]

whatever works best for you

[ember fractal]

Maybe overclocking will save me time

[snow dove]

Not really that hard to place and connect manufacturers

their size is the issue more than anything

entirely up to how you’d like to do it

[ember fractal]

I'll blueprint the manifolds

[snow dove]

what kind of manifold are you going for?

sushi?

[ember fractal]

Probably just regular manifold

[tired viper]

Is there way to move a disconected player?

[cinder silo]

💥

[tired viper]

sure?

i can't move it with the gun

[cinder silo]

When it is dead, it should depop, just put his kit in a box nearby the hub so upon return he can get his gear back.

Not sure if it could be ragdolled about using pulses, never tried that.

[tired viper]

car did the trick

[cinder silo]

I guess he logged out in the way of progress 🤣

[tired viper]

When in a planner it goes like 3.3333x constructor

At 77.77778%

What approach do you have with those?

[cinder silo]

I up/down clock, and add/remove machines to make the numbers work without that many decimal places because otherwise the system tends to not work quite right.

[oblique notch]

Up the final output by small numbers (or reduce it) until you get rid of the crazy decimals

[ember fractal]

Overproduce and sink the overflow

[median heath]

Using the 45-81 rule so they never happen.

[oblique hollow]

you should really plop a link down to your explaination of the rule whenever you mention it

[median heath]

I like pasting the whole book 😄

[oblique hollow]

why, just copy in a link

i got tired of copy pasting pipe knowledge so now i just mention the manual and link to the manual

[median heath]

Why do you like what you like 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

its more accessible and feels more tidy 🤷

[tired viper]

H ihi!

Guys, I put an smart splitter with the "overflow" option on the left output, but once the storage is filled, it's not sending the "overflow" to the left.

Are smart splitter wacky?

[young coyote]

Is the belt correctly connected?

Also, left/right are determined when you are facing the splitter from the I put side. Make sure you haven't turned them around.

[primal flicker]

What about when combinations of alts result in mutually prime ratios with much larger denominators? Sometimes there's no escaping that one machine set to 71.6841% or some shit.

[median heath]

You can always escape it.
That's why the rule exists.

That's why after rebalance my first order of business will be discovering what they change the rule to 😁

[fierce ruin]

what is the growth multiplication of coupons?

[primal flicker]

Make modular frames using only iron and no other ores. With no unresolved decimal rounding.

[primal flicker]

Exponential/geometric. Not linear.

[median heath]

I made a blueprint that does this.

[oblique notch]

The rule works because it's underlying principle is that you increase the total machines being used in order to get past the decimals.

[primal flicker]

What refinery clock speed?

[oblique notch]

I find it way to over the top and just under/over clock machines to match whatever values I want

[median heath]

Why are Refineries involved?

[primal flicker]

Pure iron.

[median heath]

Self-inflicted issue.
And is stated in the rule as one of the sole exception recipes.

[primal flicker]

I just pulled that as an example from my recent experimenting. Making HMF with all-iron mod frames, including pure iron setup.

[median heath]

Again. Read the rule explanation.
Pure Iron is specifically stated.

[primal flicker]

And it's not an issue for me, as I see energy spent chasing "nice numbers" as more inefficient than leaving those floating point errors in the statistically insignificant margins.

[median heath]

I spend no energy 🤷‍♂️

Abide by rule, numbers solve themselves.
No energy needed.

[primal flicker]

Everything has an energy cost. Your choice not to use pure iron, costs more iron.

[median heath]

Oh you're talking about in-game MW energy?

[primal flicker]

No I'm talking about time attention and other available resources, personal or in-game.

Using pure iron saves ore. Using other recipes saves other resources.

[median heath]

In that case, I don't use Pure but I have also never encountered a single situation while building where I needed to use it 🤷‍♂️

[primal flicker]

I just chose to use it THIS time because I didn't feel like running lots of long conveyors to tap more nodes. And to keep things interesting as I haven't used it much before.

[median heath]

The only spots where I need to boost iron locally were completely satisfied by Iron Alloy.

[primal flicker]

That's a good one.

I'd like to be able to use every alt, eventually, and know what the best use-cases are for the more niche ones.

[median heath]

Some are highly underrated.

[primal flicker]

See, I think I'm guilty of that. Which is why I'm looking for the situations where they shine.

[median heath]

Electrode Circuit Board 🙂

[worldly vector]

okay so after some tweaking with satisfactory tools and recipes that i have, it gave me this for a steel factory.

this is a decent abount of HMF but everything else is lacking completely. should i limit the HMF so i have more of the rest?

i get much more when i limit the HMF production to 10

I will try it like this here, that seems like a decent one

[versed violet]

iron alloy ingot?

also, encased pipe alt would really help you

[vapid gorge]

if you're actually worried about parts per minute instead of just consistent production of some stuff while you build you probably want to make a dedicated factory for things

[worldly vector]

dont have that unfortunately

[worldly vector]

this is supposed to be a seperate steel factory and (hopwfully) stable, but i want it to produce a decent amount

[versed violet]

look for more heart drives, that alt is going to simplify a lot

[worldly vector]

the thing is, i need to rework my iron factory too as i dont have the needed 40 MF right now

[vapid gorge]

eh - if this is causing hang ups it's a lot easier to just have stuff building a bit of everything and having containers to catch parts to the side. You'll get thousands of everything very quickly

[worldly vector]

alright, weapon and new steel factory will have to wait a bit then

[vapid gorge]

you'll find those while hunting for hard drives at crash sites

[worldly vector]

well i mean 40 MF a minute in production

[versed violet]

I think he means per min.

[vapid gorge]

ah right

[worldly vector]

for reference, i am tier 7/8 and just got aluminium running, still no train network and smaller factories spread around in a bit of a mess

oh i just saw i only need a few motors and i can make the harddrive scan upgrade so that will help a lot

[ember fractal]

1440 turbofuel into 320 fuel gens...
Should I do it?

[vapid gorge]

It’s a fine amount

[ember fractal]

I'll go for it. Only need like 1080 oil if I use all the good alts

[median heath]

🫀 🚙

[median heath]

I would say no because it involves using Turbofuel for power. 😦

[fierce ruin]

whats wrong with that

[median heath]

It's pointless?
Diluted gets you to nuclear.

[fierce ruin]

well each to their own ig

[median heath]

It is truly a waste of sulfur.
The only practical use of turbo is making bullets.

[fierce ruin]

there's 6.3k ish sulfur on the map, the only use for them is nuclear, batteries, and explosives mainly

if it was truly bad then why do people use it?

[median heath]

Because they don't know?

And because it used to be good.

[wind spade]

not a big fan of turbofuel either. Diluted fuel is more than enough power for pre-nuclear and nuclear is just way better than any oil-based fuel anyway

[vapid gorge]

Turbo fuel is fun though 😛

[prisma kraken]

I'd say coal gets you to nuclear, and dilluted fuel is useless except for plastic & rubber 😉

i'm being a bit flippant with that, but the yield from fuel generators isn't very good for the size of the builds

you usually need somewhere around 10-20gw somewhere in phase 3&4 pre-nuclear

[dense cave]

I didn't go to turbo, I simply did some diluted fuel to hold me over but not a massive thing

[prisma kraken]

yeah, you just need something mid-game to get to nuclear imho

its either build huge coal, some combo of fuel/turbo fuel or one of those + geotherm

speaking of, i need to start rolling on fmf's

debating to unf*** concrete or grab nitrogen as the next project 🤔

i think nitrogen

[true junco]

I cant think of any reason not to grab Geothermal power...

[vapid gorge]

by the time you unlock it it doesn't have much of an impact on your power grid and you have to drag power lines in

[prisma kraken]

supercomputers are kind of pricey

i go for it early and just blow the coupon bank on it 🙂

[deft lichen]

You just need to automate like 0.5/min and let it pile in storage while you do other things

[prisma kraken]

or buy them

[deft lichen]

😭

[prisma kraken]

it only takes about 2 stacks to build all the geotherm on the map

i sink everything i produce, so tickets are never a problem

[oblique hollow]

they gotta up the price on those

[prisma kraken]

probably, cycling them early on is a way of cheesing coupons too

we'll probably get that all with whatever the balance update turns out being

i'd like to see more geotherm added, tbh

it would be nice if that yielded more like 10gw instead of 4.5ish

[ember fractal]

Geothermal is underwhelming

[primal flicker]

I haven't messed with it, but yes, it looks that way. I plan on using it primarily to charge power storage for my grid.

I wish there was a photovoltaic foundation/roof customization that could add something to the mix (0.1 MW per object?) but I don't know how they would implement circuit connectivity for that.

[frosty pawn]

hey it's not that bad. i would say its whelming.

[true junco]

~4.5GW doesnt sound too bad. I was planning on making a run around and set up all the Geotherm eventually after i automate supercomputers anyways.

[ember fractal]

If they had power pole breakout directly from rail, it would be easier to grab geothermal

[strong spoke]

Plutonium godly

[abstract stirrup]

Guys!! Need a 3-2 balancer pls!!

Just kidding, on the calculator online there’s everything

[wind spade]

what do you need a balancer for?

[median heath]

Because manifolds are difficult to set up. 😉

[abstract stirrup]

For 1400/min coal divided into 3 belts of 600/minx2 and 1 of 100/min

Aluminum stuff 🙂

[wind spade]

have you heard of manifolds? 😛

[abstract stirrup]

Idk what that word means

(English not main language)

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X  X  X

S = splitter
X = machine

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[abstract stirrup]

That’s seems more complicated

[wind spade]

that's just a splitter in front of each machine

that's hardly complicated

[abstract stirrup]

That’s not a balancer

[wind spade]

exactly

but you still get resources into machines

[true junco]

Its not a balancer. And balancers are rarely needed.

[abstract stirrup]

Ok I’ll explain everything, my middle finger is broken so gimme 1 min

[noble timber]

Manifolds are so much easier because it balances itself (eventually)

[true junco]

Manifolds prioritize filling the first machine in line. Once it is full the second machine takes priority. Untill all machinea are full. So long as you are inputing enough material to run all the machines they will all end up running.

[abstract stirrup]

So, I have to load on 2 differents trains with 700/min coal each. My miners are:

• 2 miners of 200/min each
• 2 miners with 600/min each
  I just needed to divide them before getting to the machines and I already have designed the dispositions of my assemblers and refineries. I see what a manifold is, but I use it in other cases.
  For me it’s just easier to do like that

Especially if I already built everything 🙂

[wind spade]

I'd personally just assign one miner = one belt = one train car = one manifold

[abstract stirrup]

Imma show you my balancer

Yeah but once I arrive to the final station, belts require a specific amount of stuff

So it’s just better diving first for me

[noble timber]

Balancers are an unnecessary waste of space and time in my opinion unless you are going for setups like zero radiation nuclear power plants

[wind spade]

that's why there's = one manifold -> I'd make each manifold use the exact amount there is on the belt

[abstract stirrup]

Well that’s how my brain works…I have 1000+ hours of Factorio and so the idea of balancers can’t get out of my head 😄

[wind spade]

even in factorio balancing is less needed than people think

[median heath]

Imagine approaching Satis as it's own game instead of trying to force it to behave like Fucktorio...

[noble timber]

ive not played factorio a whole lot but never built a balancer in it once 🫢

[abstract stirrup]

Ehm ok but I repeat, that’s how my brain works

And btw it’s not a big time loss…

thats it

[noble timber]

Looks like you are just creating 3 equal belts?

[median heath]

Balancer AND clipping...
I'm out.

[abstract stirrup]

yeah sorry i meant to say 3-3

not 3-2

cuz every train has 3 wagons

[noble timber]

So you are either going to have to manifold further down the line into your machines or load balance for each machine

[median heath]

Which means 6 belts. Vs. 3 inputs on your configuration

[abstract stirrup]

gotta use this for sure once teh tran arrives there

[abstract stirrup]

2 trains 😛

[median heath]

Number of trains is irrelevant.
3 "wagons" means 3 platforms which means 6 belts.

[wind spade]

why not use each belt on it's own?

[abstract stirrup]

cuz the loading speed of wagons would be unequal

600-600-100

bleh

[median heath]

600?

[abstract stirrup]

dang

[median heath]

Why are you using 3 cars for 1300 total?

Easily done using 2.

[abstract stirrup]

sorry but writing with 1 finger is getting me tired lol

[noble timber]

So each belt has 433.3333?

[abstract stirrup]

something like that

[noble timber]

id rather have unequal belts than have to deal with that

[wind spade]

and?
each manifold will use the amount it has

first two will use 600 and third will use 100

[abstract stirrup]

no...beacuse the blueprint needs a certain ammount

its just subjective as a thing

[wind spade]

I guess don't use blueprints that are locked to specific amounts then 😄

[abstract stirrup]

i didnt mean to hurt your brains

[noble timber]

you can combine any left over material from your manifolds into other manifolds though

so it all balances out in the end

[abstract stirrup]

as long as something like this is working, i'm not either questioning or understanding what youre saying 😉

[noble timber]

you're manifolding into those manufacturers there 😂

[abstract stirrup]

oh

well dunno then

they say: if it works...

...don't question it!

[median heath]

Simpler 🤷‍♂️