math-and-meta

[atomic shell]

After some thought into midgame power, I found a nice setup with 1x pure crude oil node, 2x plastic refinery, 2x rubber refinery, 1x residual fuel refinery, 2x fuel+polymer refinery, and 10 fuel gens. Everything runs at 100% so this should be possible to overclock to 250%. idk, maybe this was already obvious to everyone else but I liked it and wanted to share.

[median heath]

Simplest oil setup that also makes power is pre-fuel.

But that setup you described does work, yes.

Also 300 oil should be feeding a lot more than what you have outlined.
(600 if you have a mk2)

[atomic shell]

True, I'm using mk2 at 100% there so 240 oil/min. Max overclocking those extractors, refineries and generators should all play out well enough

[median heath]

300 Oil

5 Rubber Refineries @ 100%
5 Plastic Refineries @ 100%

Byproduct HOR routed to
4 Coke Refineries @ 93.75%
Feeds 18 Coal Gens with no waste.

[potent crater]

?

[wind spade]

as with all alternate recipes - pick whatever seems useful to you

[potent crater]

thx for advice

[scarlet wedge]

I’ve never figured out oil and the best way to do it. I restart my save games way too often

[wind spade]

best way is the one you have most fun with 😛

[true junco]

i kind of like all of them for different reasons. they definitely have their use cases. I like the idea of Iron Wire because Iron is the most abundant resource after water. and I recently built a fairly big RIP factory with Stitched Iron Plate. for which i am borrowing a tiny amount of copper and caterium from near by pure ingot refineries to make "fused wire" with a high ROI. I could make over 14000 wire if i really wanted to... but thats encrouching on the same rediculousness of tends of thousands of bolts im trying to avoid. lol

[true junco]

i would suggest that restarting the save is the problem.

[frosty owl]

Eh, not restarting per-se but rather maybe too little commitment to explore the production fully (wirhout restarting/dropping it halfway)

Remaking the oil factory from scratch would probably be more... "educational" 😅

[scarlet wedge]

I try and do too many things at once every thing becomes half done so I reset 😂 latest save I’m going real slow

[lament aurora]

does someone have a graph for a 900 plastic/rubber setup with diluted fuel?

[wind spade]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=INyWB0sA5oEq9oYSTFEp

[primal flicker]

Odd question here, and more of a personal opinion thing than just numbers:

What do you consider to be undesirable/bad alt recipes, and/but what are the specific use-cases that could make them worth using?

I personally dislike all the pure alts because of the space and power requirements, not to mention being limited by water access, but they do shine through if you're strapped for a specific resource.

[wind spade]

while I have recipes that I wouldn't use, I don't consider them bad because I wouldn't use them

personal preference has nothing to do with usefulness/quality of a recipe

[primal flicker]

True

[deft lichen]

imo pure caterium, concrete and quartz are pretty decent, but I prefer iron and copper alloys over pure

I dislike bolted alts although they might be worth with some screw alts, never looked into that too much

[primal flicker]

I'm not a fan of bolted either, but I know some people love cast screws/bolted frames combo.

[deft lichen]

bolted saves power and space but wastes iron with default or cast screws

cast screws are better over default screws when not using steel rod

[true junco]

Im leaning more and more into the idea that "wasting iron" is a bit moot since it is so abundant compared to everything else.

[oblique hollow]

if it wastes iron it likely wastes space

[deft lichen]

iron is globally abundant but local availability still matters

[ember sluice]

This may be a dumb question, but when this says its out putting 2m^3 at 50 per minute are we actually talking 50x2 at 100/min?

[deft lichen]

nope, it is 50/min

[oblique hollow]

it makes 2 units every time the recipe finishes

[deft lichen]

it's 2 m3 per cycle, the cycle duration is listed too

[oblique hollow]

the recipe takes 2.4 seconds
that means it finishes 25 times in a minute
and that means you get 25 times 2 m³ in a minute

[ember sluice]

Yeah I see the 50 per minute, just wanted to be sure if it was only 50/min or 50/min of the 2m3

[oblique hollow]

so 50 m³/min

[ember sluice]

okay so the total no matter the number at the top being 50 was correct and i'm over thinking it lol

thanks guys

[deft lichen]

"every 8 seconds, 3 quartz is used to make 5 silica"
the /min values are calculated from that

[oblique hollow]

60 seconds / 8 seconds = 7.5 production cycles per minute

7.5 times the items it makes per cycle = items per minute

[ember sluice]

That's how i've normally thought of it but my brain went derp when it came to liquids apparently

[median heath]

?
Bolted recipes are the exact opposite of this statement.
They waste iron to SAVE space.

[oblique hollow]

how do they save space again

[median heath]

Shorter cycle times.

[oblique hollow]

by needing less machines for the frames and plates ?

[median heath]

Bolted Plate saves space by cutting out 2 Assemblers compared to the base recipe.

[wind spade]

bolted RIP: 1501 buildings -> 1000/min
normal RIP: 1400 buildings -> 1000/min

(all other recipes are normal)

they do save power

7800 MW vs 6730 MW (normal vs bolted)

[oblique hollow]

#math-and-meta message

[wind spade]

not sure about space (too lazy to calculate), but they don't save buildings

[oblique hollow]

this was what i found out for the other recipes last time

for bolted, you just trade assemblers for constructors

yeah, it cuts assembler amount in half or even quarters, but doubles the other machine count

[median heath]

When you work with Overclocking it is a bit different 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

assembler space = 10*15 = 150
constructor space = 8*10 = 80
smelter space = 9*6 = 54

Bolted RIP space = 67*150 + 995*80 + 439*54 = 113,356m2
normal RIP space = 200*150 + 800*80 + 400*54 = 115,600m2

savings: 2% of space

[muted goblet]

m²

[wind spade]

so total is (by using bolted RIP instead of normal RIP)
7% more buildings
2% less space usage
14% less power usage
9.7% more resources

[wind spade]

fixed, sorry

[median heath]

See, it takes less space.

[wind spade]

overclocking should not change these percentages 🤔

only you need more shards when you need more buildings

[muted goblet]

I only like bolted in combination with steel screws. Yes it does take steel, but ure getting a lot out of them

[median heath]

It does given if you OC the base to 2.5x you're still behind the Bolted which does 3x base without any clocking.

[wind spade]

I meant when you OC both

I'm not taking single recipe out of context and comparing it's output per minute, I'm taking the entire production line

(also it doesn't include miners 🤔 )

[median heath]

I know.
I'm saying because of how far behind base is, when you bring in OC Bolted does even better in that department.

I still don't use the recipe because Adhered is better 🤷‍♂️

Main Bolted recipe I use is Frame.

For the space-saving it brings 🙂

[rich jackal]

When scanning for coal, does it show you every single coal mine-able area on the entire map?

because the next closest coal node to me is like 1.8km away from me

[median heath]

Only in radius, as with all other resources scanned.

What biome did you start in?

[rich jackal]

grassy one

first one

[median heath]

Coal should be much closer than 1.8km

[rich jackal]

i have 2 coal

[median heath]

Do you mind if I send you a map screenshot?

[rich jackal]

i have 2 already but the 3rd closest is 1800 awa

[rich jackal]

nope, send away

[median heath]

Use the 2 yellows for Steel.
Build your power plant UP BY THE RED and just run a power line back.

[rich jackal]

ok ty

[median heath]

Also you have Tractors now, so things that are 2km away should not bother you as you can automate delivery.

[rich jackal]

What would i use the tractors for though ?

[median heath]

as you can automate delivery.

[rich jackal]

delivery of what though?

[median heath]

Unless you really feel like building a 2km belt 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Anything?

[rich jackal]

but if i make the power plant where the red is surely i will only have to transport power back

[median heath]

You're tunnel-visioning.

[rich jackal]

yeah probably

[median heath]

Yes, in this specific instance, just run the power line back.

IN THE GENERAL SENSE

[rich jackal]

ahhhhh

[median heath]

If it pings 1.8km away from you that shouldn't be a concern.

Because just drive a route once and automate delivery.

[rich jackal]

ok

tyvm

[rich jackal]

Also what did u use for this map ?

[median heath]

Are you wanting to spoil the entire game for yourself?

[rich jackal]

i dont think it will spoil it

for me personally

[median heath]

How could knowing the location of all things not be a spoil?

But you do you...
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/interactive-map#4.75;82700;-60094|gameLayer|

[scarlet wedge]

I’ve rarely used the map most things are easy enough to find, object scanner and radio tower

[rich jackal]

its a spoiler but wont spoil the game for me as i am sure i will still enjoy the game

[tired viper]

hi hi

guys, silly question but i want to make sure ^^u

if I put a mk3 belt(270/m) on a miner, and then split using 3 mk2 belts (120/m) I guess the splitter splits in a 3 exact way of what it goes in (90+90+90) and NOT trying to fill the belt that it comes out (120+120+30)

[undone hull]

if you use a normal splitter yes 🙂

[snow dove]

just use 1 splitter, it’ll back up and work itself out

[undone hull]

but 120 + 120 + 30 is possible with a smart splitter

[snow dove]

it’s possible with a normal splitter

[undone hull]

if one of the output requires 30 yes ^^

[tired viper]

What's an smart splitter? something fro ma higher tier?

[snow dove]

yes

[undone hull]

it's coming from the mam, caterium part

[snow dove]

if it doesn’t, why would you be trying to get 30?

[undone hull]

if i remember correctly

as an overflow ?N

[snow dove]

then produce less

[undone hull]

can still be used on another factory 😄

[snow dove]

so you do need that 30, then it’ll work itself out just fine

[undone hull]

anyway, that's a good exemple to show there's many option depends on the situation

and depending your own will

[snow dove]

if you are using that 30, 1 splitter works
if you aren’t using that 30, why are you making that 30?

[undone hull]

because i can 😎

[snow dove]

that 30 has to get used by something, or there’s no point in making it

[undone hull]

tells who ?

[snow dove]

Says me.

[undone hull]

nice to hear 😉

anyone can do anything

that's a fact

[snow dove]

i mean yeah, ultimately your choice

if you want to make 30 of whatever it is and not doing anything with it, causing inefficiencies in everything leading up to it, that’s your choice

[undone hull]

i just say there's no perfect solution

and each is valid depend on ones perspective

[tired viper]

Also, is there an app/website o help me calcuate the spliter layaout for best nuumbers? (like...I0ve 5000 smelters, and I need 5 lines of ingots, one with 200 ingots, one with 333, another with 1234...etc)

[snow dove]

two splitters is all it takes

[tired viper]

?

[snow dove]

load balancing is entirely useless outside of radioactive stuff

[rugged pulsar]

guys i have a train with 10 freight car. So i have 10 freight platforms.
i have a storage facility with 4 belts.
so i need a system when the first belt fills up materials goes to the next one belt. (from train to storage facility)
i need help only for this (my facility can handle it after that)
it is possible?

[tired viper]

what you meanÇ?

[snow dove]

load balancing, its where you take an input, and use splitters and mergers to produce exact outputs

[tired viper]

Yes

[snow dove]

it’s useless unless you’re working with radioactive material

[undone hull]

again, that's only HIS opinion ^^

[snow dove]

if i have an input of 400, and want outputs of 130, 170, and 100, one splitter works

[median heath]

It's called a belt compressor.

[scarlet wedge]

so its better to use manifold set ups?

[snow dove]

Yes

[tired viper]

why it works? I don'0t fully get it

[median heath]

It's simpler and the end result is identical.
Up to you if that equates to "better"

[scarlet wedge]

drew this perfectly good diagram of a set up i needed

seems useless now

[median heath]

It works because nodes are infinite.

[snow dove]

because machines only use as much as they need

[rugged pulsar]

i have to unlock that?

[snow dove]

it will backup and work itself out

[median heath]

No, you have to build it.

[tired viper]

Oh, si if a machine only needs 120, the smelter will send only 120 to it's way?

[rugged pulsar]

can you sent me guide pls? 🙂

[median heath]

Google is going to be your friend on this one for designs/configurations.

[tired viper]

But if I need MORe, then it's necesary?

[median heath]

Smelters cannot make 120 of anything.

[snow dove]

then that machine will use 120, then it’s input buffer will fill, then the belts will fill, and it’ll eventually only send 120 that way, because it physically can’t send more

[tired viper]

Sorry then, if I understand that correctly

I have a merger that recieves 190 ingots, and I have to divide it in 5 machines

and I really don't want to do the maths/thingy to have 38 exact inputs

So if I just split those 190 in 5 ways

they will sort themselves?

[median heath]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[tired viper]

ok

[median heath]

"Yes" is the answer to your question.

Just shove all of it onto 1 belt and have 1 splitter per machine.

It will sort itself out.

[tired viper]

But wuth the convelt speeds

oog...My head starts to fume

What are those big rectanlges on that draw?

Any machine?

[median heath]

Yes.

If your head is fuming due to basic math idk what to say other than "this was an odd choice of game for you." 🤷‍♂️

[tired viper]

...

[median heath]

That is not me being insulting. It's just a factual observation because the basic math is only going to increase as you progress through the game 🤷‍♂️

[tired viper]

I don't have any problem with basic math. I've some issues trying to understand some concepts of the games, like "injected manifold"

[unreal spire]

If you want a long line of smelters, eventually you will stop feeding them at effective speeds, so you need to "inject" more resource via merger

[grim steppe]

idk why but i lold

[median heath]

If you need 900 but the belt can handle only 270:

Smelters take 30 each. Inject every 120 because that's easy to control with a mk2.
So 270 - 30 - 30 - 30 - 30 + 120 - 30 - 30 and so on.

Math 🤷‍♂️

[tired viper]

gj ^^

[median heath]

It's a very useful mechanic in both belts and pipes.

[wind spade]

injection manifolds 🤢

if you need 900 and belts can do 270, make 4 manifolds xD

[median heath]

Ah yes, Greeny - champion of Balancers.

[wind spade]

what?

[median heath]

There is no compromise.
You either support manifolds in all forms or we throw you over to the balancer category 🙂

[grim steppe]

Coffee: poured
chair: reclined
manifold: injected

okay its gaming time

[snow dove]

there’s a certain form of manifolds you don’t support

[scarlet wedge]

How to make 4 manifolds with one belt though

[median heath]

?

[wind spade]

4 belts

[snow dove]

Clipped manifolds

[wind spade]

each belt goes to one manifold

each manifold uses 270/min

total is 900 (with one belt having less)

[median heath]

I fully support clipped manifolds.
I just will never personally use them because I don't do clipping.

[snow dove]

fair enough

[craggy nova]

Is there anywhere in game or online to see all items that are derived from another? i.e. if i wanted to see all items that use steel beams or items derived from steel beams?

[oblique hollow]

the wiki

[craggy nova]

ah awesome thank you

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @oblique notch

[median heath]

@fierce ruin Green Zone is target area.
All other lines are just showing ease of access to natural major pathways for trains/trucks.

[fierce ruin]

ok thank you, i was actually looking at that area earlier as a possible storage facility type thing for the future

[median heath]

Can build it by the lake/river next to the canyon or can actually build it over the canyon to use the space to run trains underneath it too.

Also note the very precise train routing in the Dune Desert 😉

[frosty owl]

🍣

[hazy dune]

Can anyone show me their spreadsheets for production?

Specifically the type where you know your inputs and are trying to define your outputs

[wind spade]

people usually use online tools

[hazy dune]

Is there an online tool you could recommend for doing it that way?

[median heath]

If I may recommend:
You're doing this backwards.

Pick your target output and solve retroactively from there.

[wind spade]

I recommend not doing it that way 😛

there are tools in #welcome 🙂

[frosty owl]

*Tools

[nocturne ridge]

I also prefer this method

if you do it this way you need to know what you are optimizing for, such as points per minute, or maxing a certain item

[glass copper]

What should i do with this coal? use it for steel or make a coal power plant here?

[true junco]

In all seriousness. One option is to use the 2 nearby sulfur nodes to make a Steel Mill with the compacted steel alt. Then make power with all the remaining coal.

[glass copper]

Ahhh yea true ! 😄

but there is plenty of iron there aswell for steel

[median heath]

Coal Lake East is the best Steel spot on the map.

*for now.
SAM implementation may alter that.

[glass copper]

is that the one i sended in the picture?
And SAM implementation?

[median heath]

No.

[glass copper]

Ahh think i found it haha, here then right?

[median heath]

Still no.
Don't worry about it.

[glass copper]

So u wont say where it is?

[median heath]

SAM is multiple places on the map. It just has no purpose at the moment.

[wind spade]

I mean you can also leave it there and whenever you need it, use it 🙂

[grim steppe]

u should use the coal for power or for making steel (i am trying to learn how to be a discord mod please be patient)

[glass copper]

Can we use the satisfactory calculator to calculate how many coal burners we need for the amount of coal, compact coal, or any other fuel we bring in?

[sand epoch]

Can just use an actual calculator for that.. :/

[glass copper]

How many compact coal do i need then per coal burner then?

[zinc crater]

@prisma kraken

[finite herald]

This might not be the place to ask this, please excuse if not. I'm pretty new to this game but to say that I have an addiction problem now would be an understatement lol I just unlocked nitrogen stuff and I found a node, I want to move the nitrogen and it needs to go over a long distance so I can get it back to my main base/area. I'd like to have someone take a look at my world, through discord call screen share or something like that, and tell me the best way to set it up so that I can efficiently get the nitrogen back to my base. Much appreciated in advance!

[prisma kraken]

i thought you said 48 constructors

[zinc crater]

it did, and i never caught the mistake.

[prisma kraken]

i'm in agreement that coke steel is situationally very good

[zinc crater]

No one wants to say they're pro coke through.

[prisma kraken]

i'll go on record as saying that

[zinc crater]

[prisma kraken]

all the steel alts are situationally very good

flow chart i follow is: use up coke for steel, use up sulfur for compacted steel, solid steel for the rest

its funny how that ramps you nicely into the mid game hmf prod

its like the 150-160 hor you get from intro petro gives you around 600 steel which is enough to run a single hmf line with some decent by-product

boy, i'm happy i set this up a few days ago

nothing special about it, just 8 constructors making concrete... the placement of it has just been right where i've needed it to avoid all sorts of resupply runs

[median heath]

Just from the description:
Use a Drone.

[prisma kraken]

really one of the major uses of drones in the game is to move nitrogen, as Sev said

when you package it, it compresses in a 4:1 ratio

which means one stack of nitrogen canisters = 400 gas

both drones and trains are great ways to move the gas in packaged form

just have a packager on both sides and seed the loop with some cannisters

(iirc their actually called fluid tanks)

[thick plank]

Better option then drone cause of easier:

Use a pipeline track or package the nitrogen and use a conveyor. Id personally do the first option

[oblique hollow]

Either way, packaged Nitrogen gas is the best way to transport it

since its 4 m3 per bottle

[vapid gorge]

That should show up on the coal generator of you feed it or you can check the wiki page on the coal gen

[prisma kraken]

that info really needs to be added to the codex 😦

[fierce cypress]

300 fluid/min through a single direction 16 junction manifold should work right?

[median heath]

Yes.

[fierce cypress]

maybe it just has a very long stabilisation time

because the last 4 machines just arent happy

80, 25, 10, 5

%

[median heath]

Definitely shut the first 2 off and let everything fill all the way to the end.

[fierce cypress]

i had it prefilled but there was a pipe bug so it didnt really end up working well

[median heath]

Like, let the first 2 fill, then turn them off.
Then let everything else fill, then turn them back on 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

🐛

[fierce cypress]

even with first 3 off its taking its time

still barely 1 cycle ahead of demand

maybe its input?

yea the input pipe is fluctuating wildly

[glass copper]

Oooh thank u. seems compacted coal is 7.142, thats almost 17 on 120 compact coal ;o

[fierce cypress]

like 60-280/min

[median heath]

Compacted Coal is 50 to 7 Generators.

That's the "clean number"

[fierce cypress]

hmmm, im slightly confused

the pipe is not delivering enough oil, yet the extractor is backing up due to excess

any ideas?

nope @median heath even after prefilling, the end machines drop again

[median heath]

End ones will drop but shouldn't empty.

Also, napping.

🛌

[fierce cypress]

mb , gn sev, preliminary testing with upgrading to mk2 seems to have improved it, even though that shouldnt make a difference

[vapid gorge]

Stuttering and back flow is a likely culprit w/o knowing more

[fierce cypress]

i can get you any screenshots or recordings of anything if you want, im still ingame

[vapid gorge]

Pics would help

And pipe type and expected flow

[fierce cypress]

manifold of oil, 300/min in, 18.75 consumed in each ref, 16 refs total

[vapid gorge]

Loop it

[fierce cypress]

i had the pipe as mk1 but it wasnt working, upgrading the manifold section (not feed from extractor) seems to have eased it

other angle

and the feed pipe comes from over there

[vapid gorge]

Yeah before the manifold starts split it and loop a pipe to the end

And apparently really short pipe segments, maybe as short from your junction to machine, might have janky flow if the loop doesn’t solve it

[fierce cypress]

from its own junction to split but into the last one as a merge?

those small sections are all mk2, in both tests

[vapid gorge]

I like making an independent junction prior to the manifold junctions but using the first manifold junction for the loop should be fine

[fierce cypress]

so that should work fine?

[vapid gorge]

I’d make it a mk2 as well but should be fine as is? Flood all the machines and see how it goes

[fierce cypress]

i changed it all back to mk1

it shouldnt make a difference

[vapid gorge]

It shouldn’t.

But yeah I design all pipe systems with a loop by default now. Technically mk1s shouldn’t need it? Apparently?? But I think there’s more to the physics. It might accidentally simulate turbulence of a sort with back flow depending on number of machines and how much fluid they suck up in a go

[fierce cypress]

i have no idea if this is a UI glitch, but this pipe is stuck at 0 flowrate but it seems to be letting oil through

[vapid gorge]

It might be filling from the other end

[fierce cypress]

i deleted it and rebuilt it and it filled with oil and drained, and it stayed at 0

so i have no idea

anyhow mk2 + loop seems to work

[vapid gorge]

All praise the loop

It just fixes so many things

[fierce cypress]

indeed, now i can make the already bad fog worse

[snow dove]

Pollution FTW!

[fierce cypress]

i only have to do that uhhh 7.5 more times

but that can wait for another day, because i want to sleep

👋

[vapid gorge]

Sleep is for the weak. And sleepy.

[oblique hollow]

adds Tomato to my "Certified would-build-100-fuel-gens lunatic list"

[vapid gorge]

100? That’s a big list

I think my first fuel station was 380~

[oblique notch]

one im not on. I have 18 fuel gens at the moment, with plans to add another 9 shortly

[primal flicker]

Oh good I'm in the clear at 67

[broken nest]

Last night I tried doing the math on whether petroleum coke or residual fuel gives you more bang for your buck (i.e. power output per heavy oil residue consumption). At first i thought Coke was better, which surprised me, but now that I’ve factored in power losses from refining and water extractors, I think fuel comes out on top. Here’s my math, if anyone’s interested:

[oblique hollow]

coke is a slight bit below residual fuel. but once you have different recipes for fuel, coke gets absolutely outclassed

like diluted fuel for example

the bonus of coke is the ability to regain power before you have fuel generators

[vapid gorge]

Sloppy instant coke when?

[oblique hollow]

coked coal

[vapid gorge]

Coaled coke even

[broken nest]

Yeah, we made a coke setup for power when we first started oil extraction, but after unlocking fuel I was wondering if it was worth converting everything to using fuel, even before unlocking alt recipes. Turns out it is, but not by much.

[oblique hollow]

the thing with fuel is its more convenient too

[broken nest]

Yes

[oblique hollow]

since its just one pipe and no water needed either

(normal and residual fuel at least)

[broken nest]

oh yeah. Turbo fuel wasn’t in the game last time I played. Haven’t messed with it yet.

[oblique hollow]

Turbo is a but tricky, but compared to residual fuel you usually get like 3 x or 2.66666 x the power

at the cost of sulfur and usually also coal

[oblique notch]

honestly? Unless you need the resources back that y oure using for that, just leave it

[broken nest]

Yeah, we’ve definitely got bigger problems right now lol. And we don’t have diluted fuel unlocked yet.

[oblique notch]

heh. And the additional power isnt going to hurt. Until you cant find an open node for what you need I generally just leave old infrastructure behind

[oblique hollow]

Diluted power is optional when you start out

[versed violet]

Since when Epic counts gameplay in hours+minutes instead of Days+hours?

[median heath]

Been that way for over a year (at least that is when I noticed it)

[versed violet]

Pretty sure it wasn't around december when I last checked it. But maybe my client managed to self update itself. Nice to be able to read the hours now.

[median heath]

Aye.

[scarlet wedge]

@sleek stag one is split one is manifold

[spark shale]

which of the basic recipes for plastic/rubber are better? (with or without resin)

[median heath]

?

[oblique hollow]

unless you have a really good way to make resin, use the ones that turn oil to rubber / plastic

and considering you likely dont have a good resin recipe (because it doesnt exist), there is only one option

[spark shale]

so with resin

[oblique hollow]

no

[spark shale]

I'm confused

[median heath]

Just do Oil > Product.
No Resin involved.

[spark shale]

ok ok

i get it now

[oblique hollow]

there are no recipes that make resin efficient enough

[spark shale]

thanks

[fierce ruin]

recycled

[oblique hollow]

not a basic recipe

[fierce ruin]

its like only 4 levels of refining

hor, diluted fuel, resin, recycling

[oblique hollow]

its still not a default recipe

not what they asked for

[spark shale]

btw thanks for later use, when I get the alternative

[prisma kraken]

is there a page somewhere that catalogs the different petroleum configurations you can do?

to my count, there's really only i think 4 viable configurations with a few choices as to how to deal with the hor/resin byproduct

[oblique hollow]

wdym configurations

recipe combos?

[deft lichen]

Check the wiki for available recipes

[snow dove]

i have some info on fuel recipes at least
Fuel recipe: 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Residual Fuel

Plastic: 3oil/1HOR 6oil/2fuel 6oil=25MW
Rubber: 3oil/2HOR 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Polymer Resin: 3 oil/2 HOR 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Heavy Oil Residue: 3oil/4HOR 6oil/8fuel 6oil=100MW
Diluted fuel
Plastic: 3oil/1HOR 3oil/2fuel 3oil=25MW
Rubber: 3oil/2HOR 3oil/4fuel 3oil=50MW
Polymer Resin: 3 oil/2 HOR 3oil/4fuel 3oil=50MW
Heavy Oil Residue: 3oil/4HOR 3oil/8fuel 3oil=100MW

[deft lichen]

There's 3 ways to make plastic and rubber (default, recycled loop, resin)

[prisma kraken]

yeah, to my count, there's 'intro' plastic & rubber, polyester resin -> plastic/rubber + hor byproduct, the 300->900 recycled build, and then the max-out diluted fuel for power one

[oblique hollow]

polymer resin alt isnt viable

[prisma kraken]

with a slight nod on the side to the turbofuel alts

[oblique hollow]

only real combo you can do is polymer resin > rubber > HOR to diluted fuel

same thing as HOR alt but more focus on rubber

and worse efficiency

[prisma kraken]

yeah, that's part of the 300->900 recycled

[oblique hollow]

because the Polymer resin alt is godawful with efficiency

[oblique hollow]

in this case its not 300 > 900 because you are using Polymer Resin alt, not HOR alt

[prisma kraken]

there is a configuration for poly resin where it kicks off something like 300 plastic/200 rubber/600 coke

[oblique hollow]

that one doesnt have nearly as much yield

[prisma kraken]

its not very good

[oblique hollow]

you mean the poly resin from the HOR alt or the Poly resin alt recipe itself

[prisma kraken]

the poly resin alt

[oblique hollow]

no, not viable

efficiency too poopy

[prisma kraken]

i'd use it if the situation was right, but you're looking at about the same refinery count for 1/3rd of the product

[oblique hollow]

its easier to use the resin you get from the HOR alt

the residual recipes are either too weak or Resin Alt is too weak

[prisma kraken]

i agree

[oblique hollow]

i once used the polymer resin alt for a factory cuz i didnt have HOR alt and not all recycling recipes either

[prisma kraken]

the only time i'd think of using it were if the coke were really important and i needed just a few 100 more plastic and rubber

but if you have all the alts, your better off doing recycled and then HOR alt into coke

i really am trying to find a situation where i'd value that recipe

anyway, i was just wondering if there's a list of configurations for petro

[oblique hollow]

so i went with the second best thing:

at least its a conversion ratio above 1...

but the amount of water and residual rubber refineries is absurd

[prisma kraken]

those are some ugly numbers, lol

[oblique hollow]

average Polymer Resin alt L

[prisma kraken]

its not a very useful recipe

[oblique hollow]

it makes Fabric, thats about it

[prisma kraken]

which i can sorta live without

when i set up a weapons plant i have an autosorter that makes mycelia into fabric which is enough for filters

[deft lichen]

Jeez those numbers are bad

Why not use the 45:81 rule

[prisma kraken]

i still don't understand why it isn't the 5:9 rule

[snow dove]

produces less decimals

[prisma kraken]

ehh, i'm not going to get into that convo again

[glass copper]

Is there like a go-to place for a coal plant?

[wind spade]

near water and coal 😄

[median heath]

Depends on which alt you want to use 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

obviously biocoal

[median heath]

Compacted BioSteel

[median heath]

It is a wonderful rule 😁
But will have to be redrawn when the recipe balance patch hits. 😩

[glass copper]

Yea i know haha but like what nodes do ppl generaly go for

what 'clump' of nodes

[wind spade]

that also depends on where you are, which nodes you've already used, how much power do you want, what are your future plans, etc. etc.

[glass copper]

Where i am i dont mind, i wanna go modular build so all over the place 😄 for now i am using temp nodes for steel, so no permanent coal are in use so far 😄

[wind spade]

I'd basically just look around for decent amount of coal I want to use for power and go for that 🤷‍♂️

[oblique notch]

Yeah I just go for the first pure node of coal I can find. That's usually the only coal plant I make, as I rush for fuel or strategically turn parts of my factory off

[true junco]

All of them?

[cerulean bobcat]

im trying to get the math right on turbo fuel gens. do fuel gens work at 100% even if theres no load on them (i.e. if you have a bio gen on a loop where a coal gen is the bio gen stops working even if it still says its running)

i just have the gens hooked up to poles but theyre only hooked to each other no outside load

[wind spade]

all gens work on full load always

(except biomass)

[cerulean bobcat]

odd then

because my turbofuel refineries are making 275ppm while the gens are consuming 288ppm and im not running out of fuel

[wind spade]

are all the gens running at 100%?

[cerulean bobcat]

yep

and ive been running it for a while now

the pipes are filled

and the refineries are emptied as soon as the gas is collected

[wind spade]

are the numbers right then? 😄

[cerulean bobcat]

ill give you my numbers

[snow dove]

i'd reckon, no

[cerulean bobcat]

64 fuel gens 14.66665 turbofuel refineries

and thats an underclocked refinery

not an OC'd one

[snow dove]

what recipe for turbofuel

[cerulean bobcat]

fuel/compacted ie the normal turbofuel

not heavy

[snow dove]

so you're math is wrong

you're producing 234.6667 turbofuel

but you are consuming 288 turbofuel

which makes no sense

[wind spade]

14.666 refineries make 275 tho

[cerulean bobcat]

then why are the gens running at full speed without sputtering

ive never understand fuel in this game

[snow dove]

turbofuel recipe produces 5 turbofuel every 18.75 seconds, 60/18.75 is 3.2, that's 3.2 cycles a minute, 3.2*5 for five units produced per cycle means 16 per minute per refinery, 16*14.6... is 234.6...

forgot "*" was a discord function character for a sec

[cerulean bobcat]

😛

[snow dove]

If i made an error in my math please do correct me

[cerulean bobcat]

thats what im saying

[wind spade]

it's 18.75 per minute per refinery tho

and cycle time is 16s

[snow dove]

fuck

ok so ye 275 is the actual production

[cerulean bobcat]

ill also say i was using the build suggestion from the wiki

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorial:How_to_play?file=Turbofuel_Power_module.png#Turbofuel_Power

[snow dove]

can you show us a picture of your setup?

[wind spade]

is it 100% isolated system with no other input/output? all gens are connected to the same power network?

[cerulean bobcat]

the gens themselves are isolated

theres no load on them specifically

the refineries are on the main grid

yay batteries and coal

[cerulean bobcat]

lemme load it in to the map

i dont have flight yet

[oblique notch]

Do you have Buffers, or is it a significantly large pipe system?

[cerulean bobcat]

no buffers

[oblique notch]

Pipes have Volume, something that belts do not - so even if you are making slightly less, if the pipes were full when you started it up it can run at full speed for a while before showing wear.

alos... make sure all your generators are actually hooked up. One or two may not be.

[cerulean bobcat]

the last pipe isnt completely full but its filling fast enough to keep the last gen full

all green

its also been running for a couple hours now

infact i added 8 generators after it started just to see if i was wrong

and those emptied out the overflow sitting in the refineries

[oblique notch]

where is this pipe going? what does it have in it?

[cerulean bobcat]

regular fuel from my diluted system

[oblique notch]

ive never tried... but pretty sure pipes just fail to mix straight up, so... unlikely that its a crossed connection ...

[cerulean bobcat]

yea you cant mix

[oblique notch]

isolate it it from teh rest of the grid and see how much power those 64 are producing? that will tell us if one of them is bugged and showing green when its not

[cerulean bobcat]

already are

gimme a sec

[oblique notch]

how much Max Production power does a graph there say? sure

[cerulean bobcat]

9600mw

[oblique notch]

yeah thats 64 gens...

i guess ... double check your Under clocked one that it isnt actually over clocked to 166% instead of uc to 66%?

thats crazy.

[oblique notch]

weeeeiiirrd.

[cerulean bobcat]

and i dont have any mods that affect pipe volume or anything

[oblique notch]

very very curious.

Ive seen some bugged buildings since U7 dropped that work like they are powered but arent actually powered - like Pumps properly pumping without being connected (and showing a green status bar) and lights turning on when not connected to an active power grid, so maybe... but no idea.

[cerulean bobcat]

fuel is the part that always confounds me

[oblique notch]

if you restart what happens?

[cerulean bobcat]

lemme restart

ive had this issue for awhile

im rebuilding my fuel plant because the last one that i followed to a T and i kept running out of fuel

looks fine ill do another round in a couple minutes to see if they drop below 50

still running

my magical generators are still being magic

[cerulean bobcat]

@wind spade i finally lost 4 of the 8 extras

[prisma kraken]

large pipe networks, esp for fuel just slosh around a lot; its better to split it into smaller networks

it has been a very long time since i've built a really large fuel power plant, but knowing what i know now, i would prefill it until the flow rate of the pipes goes to zero, then turn on the generators

also, really do consider OC'ing the generators to reduce the network's size

[vapid gorge]

eh, OCing is not needed at all, just flood it and leave a 1 off until it gets completely full

[cerulean bobcat]

the problem solved its self

but doesnt OCing end up actually losing power?

[prisma kraken]

no, its linear; less generators, same power same resources consumed

like a coal gen at 200% will burn 30 coal/min and make 150mw

OC'ing the water extractors to keep up with that, you do use more power there, but shrug

[cerulean bobcat]

i swear i read somewhere on the wiki that over 200% was wasting the OC

the math goes weird on the equation

atleast on generators

[prisma kraken]

things changed with it all in U7 to make it more straightforward

you may have been dealing with some outdated and incomplete info

[cerulean bobcat]

i mean ive been playing since release so

lots of changes

[prisma kraken]

you couldn't push nukes to 250% because it would have taken more than 600 h2o/min

in u7 they reduced the water demand of a nuke to support oc'ing them to 250

that may be what you're thinking of

[cerulean bobcat]

no cause i almost never get to nukes

i get bogged in fuel

and usually end up quiting

[prisma kraken]

the math on the OC was different too

you had to enter some goofy value that was like 204.xxx% to get them oc'ed

i can't recall the math off-hand, but now they just work so 200% means 2x the power and 2x the consumption

and they cap at 250 like other machines

[vapid gorge]

OCing power generators only saves you space - you burn the equivalent amount of fuel per mW.

been that way for ages

the output/consumption though has been simplified but same efficiency

[prisma kraken]

did the old math on OC'ing allow you to push them all to 250%?

i really didn't value OC'ing generators until U7

[vapid gorge]

yes but with nuclear generators yo ucouldn't supply enough water for it at 250

[prisma kraken]

right

[vapid gorge]

and 250% on power gens weren't 250% output or consumption

[prisma kraken]

i'd look it up, but don't know where to find the old math

[vapid gorge]

it was still as efficient on fuel/power though

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i never bothered because the math was pretty obtuse

i have to say though, i really like the change

i have effectively 6 16-gen cpp's running at 125% atm and when mk3 miners happen, that'll be another 7.5 gw w/o building

that's still a bit off in the future though, i'm still running trains to get copper and bauxite into the same place 😛

[stray pagoda]

Ok guys, so I just need some help confirming the math for me; a second proofreading if you may... according to my calcs, I have 2 pure oil running at max 600/min, each has 20 refineries running the heavy oil residue producing 800/min being then directed to 16 blenders making me a total of 1600 fuel/min; so far math checks out... now, confirm with me, how many total fuel gens do I need if all of them are gonna be OC'd to 250%? My old self left me a note saying 65.86 Fuel Gens, current calculations give me 106.66; so which one is right? or do you guys have another number

[median heath]

600 Oil = 20 GW with Diluted.

2.5 * 150 = 375
20,000 / 375 = 53.3333...

Other way to do it:
2.5 * 12 = 30
1600 / 30 = 53.3333...

@stray pagoda

[stray pagoda]

so I do need 106.66 awesome thanks haha guess I still need to build the second half of the gennies

[frosty owl]

250% was effectively ~200%
Max water consumption was ~601/min or something

[prisma kraken]

so it was setting to ~204 (iirc) that gave you 250?

i never did wrap my head around that math

[oblique hollow]

what you talking about

nukes?

[prisma kraken]

generators in general

[oblique hollow]

nukes had a different exponent and scaling

[prisma kraken]

asking about the old math

[frosty owl]

The old math meant that clocking them to 250% caused them to have a "production speed" of just a bit over 2x their normal one (100%)

[oblique hollow]

generators reached 200% speed on like 243.2288%

cause the exponent was 1/1.3

[prisma kraken]

there we are

[wind spade]

246.2288% 😛

[oblique hollow]

nukes reached 200% at 250%

[oblique hollow]

close enough

[prisma kraken]

i've been with the game since u4, and do remember reading all of it in detail, but the details & numbers just never stuck in my head

really my reason for asking was simply phrased, to verify that in U7 you can get more power out of a single generator

[frosty owl]

That is part of the reason why Nucgens need less water as they couldn't really go over 200% prior

[prisma kraken]

nod

[oblique hollow]

im still for 500/min water maximum for nukes

nothing should ever need a full mk 2

would mean 200/min water at 100%

which is already quite a lot

would make it a ratio of 5 extractors per 3 Nukes

[median heath]

I enjoy my 1:1 ratio, thank you 😉

[snow dove]

?

[median heath]

OC Extractor to 2.5

[snow dove]

then reactors to 1.25?

[prisma kraken]

i've not seen issue in doing a full 600 into a 250% OC'd nuke

[deft lichen]

overclocking water extractors to feed NPP is reasonable given the negligible loss in net power gain

[prisma kraken]

i don't mind paying the OC tax for water extractors

a little net power loss is preferable to me than fussing with extractor placement

but that's my personal pref

[deft lichen]

overclocking the NPP is also a good idea given their ginormous size

[prisma kraken]

and cost of building materials

[deft lichen]

their only really "expensive" ingredient are 5 supercomputers, the rest you should already have automated at that point

[snow dove]

i mean you should automate all of it

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its just that chicken and egg thing with mk3 miners, supercomputers/turbomotors and power

[deft lichen]

you can have nuclear immediately after the milestone unlocking aluminum, and I personally won't automate SC large-scale before I get some of the T8 alts

no reprocessing though

[snow dove]

i don’t really recommend doing nuclear without the reprocessing

[prisma kraken]

i'm really wondering as i approach that game stage if i should use the alts or not... i'm probably going to be building in this world for a long time and the promise of beacon removal is ominous

[deft lichen]

imo nuclear alts are good when going large scale, but not for small scale

because they all work around "less uranium, more of everything else"

but you don't really need to conserve uranium when not maxing all nodes

[prisma kraken]

yeah, eyeballing my power requirements, i think i'm probably looking at 2 full uranium nodes worth of power

[deft lichen]

yeah at that point it might be worth considering which way works better for you

[prisma kraken]

i dunno, i may go u2100 and say screw it, ALL the power

[deft lichen]

1.19 TW

[prisma kraken]

i need to sit down for a day and do the math

my tentative goal with this save is to flip the switch on p4 elevator delivery and do it in 25 minutes

what i can already see as a problem is caterium

well, not a problem per-say, but it has me worried

out of curiosity, what's the max number of PFR's that can be made/min

odd, satisfactorytools won't give me an answer, lol

[deft lichen]

you need to manually enter waste as input

!wikisearch PFR

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=PFR

[deft lichen]

the numbers are in trivia 👆

[oblique hollow]

it cant make waste itself, it needs manual waste input

its a limit of the way the calculator receives new data

all automated from a document in the game folder. and waste has no recipe

[prisma kraken]

ahh

[deft lichen]

greeny does fill in some stuff manually regardless, as I've been told (by himself)

[oblique hollow]

but he would prefer if he didnt have to

[tired viper]

Hi people ^^ Is there a planner where I can enter my input, ask what I want, and then calculate the max outputs?

All the planners i find ask me the or the items per minute, or max inpur priority that then ignores the rest

[snow dove]

satisfactory tools

[tired viper]

Let me check

uhm, I got to the part where I can maximize what I want

But then I've everything at the same speed

Modular frames at 9.6, screws at 9.6

[oblique hollow]

yes. is that a problem?

[tired viper]

Kinda low on screws?

[oblique hollow]

well, it has no reason to prioritize screws

[tired viper]

I guess I don't know how to ask the correct question on this

[oblique hollow]

You want a calculator that spits out numbers based on "whats likely to be needed in the next step" then?

like "hey i have iron parts but i dont know what i need them for, can you output me numbers based on future parts"?

[snow dove]

screws aren’t using for building stuff, so produce the amount you need

[tired viper]

It was just an example, sorry

[oblique hollow]

No no, im genuinely interested. I was just trying to guess

no need to apologize

unless that was for Iroh

[tired viper]

Like, I've 460 iron ores, and I want screws, iron rods, iron plates, rotors and reinforced iron plates

[oblique hollow]

well, then you need to tell it all those parts

[tired viper]

What the max of those things you can give me

[oblique hollow]

and it will try to make as much if those as it can

but naturally, things like modular frames need more iron for bigger outout per minute

so if you need more "complex" parts, you get less "simple" parts

[tired viper]

I do, but it asks me how many pèr minute I want, and the answer would be "all you can make"

[oblique hollow]

then maximize

[tired viper]

I did

[oblique hollow]

well then it solves that for you

[tired viper]

And it just equals everything, it gives me 9.6 modlar and 9.6 screws

[oblique hollow]

yes.

mdoular frames need more iron, and both items you selected get equal treatment

[tired viper]

Yup

[oblique hollow]

the calculator tries to raise all item numbers equally

[tired viper]

So what I ask can't be done as for rn?

[oblique hollow]

if you want it to output more screws, no

[tired viper]

ok

[oblique hollow]

because it doesnt give one item more priority than the others for final numbers

what you can do is only maximize one part with only a part of the iron you have

and then do that for all parts

so every part gets the same input, but different output

[tired viper]

Uhm

I'll try some things thenThanks ^^

[oblique hollow]

Example: you have 480/min iron
you want 5 parts made from iron
divide 480 by 5 and then let the calculator maximize one part each with 480/5 input

that way you get the most of each, equally based on input

[deft lichen]

@tired viper if you enter multiple parts into one tab and maximize them all, it maximizes them all equally
if you want to dedicate a certain portion of your input, make a new tab, select that one item and maximize it there
after you know how much you can make, you can go back to your initial tab and insert items/min rather than maximize

[oblique hollow]

they dont want equally maximized

because it makes equal output numbers

but they want equal input for all parts it seems

[deft lichen]

yeah, that would be (total input)/(part count) as input and (part count) tabs

[oblique hollow]

hence what i just wrote above

[deft lichen]

ah 😄

[oblique hollow]

xd

[tired viper]

is there any "priority" on what should I build more?

[oblique hollow]

not really

[snow dove]

what you decide you want more of

[oblique hollow]

complex parts are usually needed more later on

sooo focus on complex parts and then figure out what simple parts are needed for them

[astral hornet]

Can someone help me understand what I'm doing wrong? I have 16 fuel generators, I have pumps on the two lines that are feeding them. From what I understand, they should be consuming 192 fuel/minute. I'm producing 204 at the moment (4 packagers unpacking fuel running at 85%) to have some overshoot, yet still I have generators cutting out because they're not getting fuel...

Hmm, seems like giving it some more time fixed it and they're slowly filling up with the overshoot. is producing the exact amount of fuel you need generally a bad idea?

[wind spade]

No, you just want to fill pipes before running the thing

[deft lichen]

you can speed up the process by shutting off some of the generators and letting the fuel overproduce for a while

[astral hornet]

oh, I did not do that, I hooked up the power and pipes at the same time

Is this simply due to pipes not being full? could this also explain why I have a couple coal gens acting wonky?

[deft lichen]

possibly, yep

"full pipes are happy pipes"

[cinder silo]

When I restarted my turbo fuel facility after a rebuild I shut all the generators off and let the whole fuel feed max out before restarting.

[astral hornet]

about 500 hours into this game, first time I heard that 😂

[astral hornet]

tbf, a lot of those hours were in early game faffing about with decoratives 😅

[cinder silo]

I'm just as guilty of spending time on looks, this is the fuel plant I reworked, I don't recommend turning off 800+ generators though, it sucks : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rLV_YcVt8s

[primal flicker]

For your setup, you really only need to turn off the first generator in line and the rest would fill eventually. I would personally turn off the first in each row to speed it up without cutting all the power.

[astral hornet]

Would adding a fluid buffer help?

[cinder silo]

Buffers for the vast majority of cases don't really help, in fact they can often mask issues.

[primal flicker]

They usually do the opposite. Can cause sloshing in the pipes.

[astral hornet]

gotcha

[wind spade]

What often helps is looping the pipe

[primal flicker]

If you prefill everything, it should work fine with dead-end supply headers as long as you aren't relying on max flow through your pipes.

[astral hornet]

yeah, far from

[wind spade]

Max flow through pipes is deffinitely doable tho

[primal flicker]

Looping really makes a difference when you approach 300/300 or 600/600. I use it for anything over 75% capacity.

[astral hornet]

just noticed some packagers lack some cannisters too, so that probably wasn't helping either 😅

[wind spade]

The thing woth looping the pipe is that it can't hurt

[primal flicker]

Yeah gotta have enough of those. I load 100 each into every DPF loop.

[primal flicker]

That's true. I was just noting that it helps the most, the closer you are to pipe capacity.

[cinder silo]

I had a package loop from ages back, I had an inline container for it and kept it at least a quarter full while the system was running, that way it didn't wedge, nor run short.

[astral hornet]

had everything on a big loop at first, on a manifold. switched that to just looping them back below.

[wind spade]

DPF loop is great in that you can make it 1:1:1

[astral hornet]

I'm guessing if the first pipe in the system is full, all are?

[primal flicker]

My last fuel setup, I ran a single dead end supply header to 10 gens from each DPF loop. Works great.

[astral hornet]

yeah, currently doing 16 generators, which results in everything running at 80%

love it when those ratios work out 😛

[primal flicker]

More like the LAST pipe.

[oblique hollow]

for packaging loops, doing one loop per refinery is preferable

[cinder silo]

Since I moved the colossal fuel station I swapped from DPF to Dilute Blend.

[primal flicker]

Yup. This.

[astral hornet]

no tier 7 yet here

[oblique hollow]

i just put a refinery for diluted packaged fuel and 2 packagers plus canisters into BPs now when i do that recipe

[primal flicker]

DPF only consumes a bit more power than blended diluted fuel. Not big enough gains to refit existing setups but worth for new.

[primal flicker]

I do this. It's 18m wide, and I can fit the fuel generators to line up perfectly with the fuel output lines.

[cinder silo]

I wouldn't have tore out the old installation as a modernisation thing, I only swapped due to moving the entire thing before the spire coast changes, it did cut the refinery block to about two thirds the size of the old one though 🙂

[oblique hollow]

yeah, one benefit of the blender one

[astral hornet]

BP as in blueprint? I haven't played much since update 7 (this is a new save in there), do refineries fit in blue prints?

[oblique hollow]

a lot smaller

[oblique hollow]

yes to all of those questions

[primal flicker]

Nice. I'm currently planning a turbo fuel refit, which will expand existing refineries by 36 and generators by 81.

[astral hornet]

I built my fuel generators on the West coast... Getting sulphur and coal here is a PITA... Trains it is I guess, from somewhere...

[cinder silo]

Please say you're not building on a colossal scale though 😄 , that was laborious.

[cinder silo]

Ahh sulphur, the whole reason I have a network of tunnels.

[primal flicker]

I literally gave you the numbers 😂

[oblique hollow]

the whole reason i dont do turbofuel

[cinder silo]

Expanding by 81 doesn't tell me how many were there before 😛

[oblique hollow]

i just use the sulfur and coal for instant scrap instead

[primal flicker]

You can belt it from the western dune forest 😈

[oblique hollow]

Truck it

[primal flicker]

Belts. Through Doggo Heaven Cave.

[cinder silo]

Tunnels for long distance transit if you have the patience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08ziPYDOto

[astral hornet]

OMFG. For the first time in forever, I have a flat power production graph. Thanks so much for pointing that out.

@primal flicker saw the screenshot, yeah, that's an option but god does it sound like a pain to go that distance... It doesn't help that I've used up most of the coal there for steel/coal power.

There's a sulphur spot in a cave in the rocky desert, I was considering clipping elevators through the roof and training it in from there 😅

or was that quartz 🤔

[primal flicker]

See, this is why a lot of people just skip turbo fuel altogether.
The other answer is just, more diluted fuel.

[cinder silo]

I'll skip turbofuel in all subsequent saves, I only moved my monster out of sheer inertia, and I didn't feel like demolishing 24km of tunnels that fed the old one.

Sunk cost fallacy at its worst in my case 🤣

[primal flicker]

I'm only doing it this time, because I haven't done it yet. And it's only 148 gens total, 67 of which are already built.

I'm also sinking gas filters out of it for 💩 and giggles.

[cinder silo]

Now you've given me the numbers 😛 , I built 888 because I'm a nutter!

[primal flicker]

It does if you do the DPF->Turbo fuel math.

2.2222 ratio.

[cinder silo]

My numbers ended up as 1800 oil to 4000 turbo.

[tired viper]

how you deal when a planner gives something like "x8.0033 convertors"

Just curiours

[primal flicker]

Personally I either cut losses or make 9 machines and underclock

0.0033/8.0033 doesn't bother me much.

That's like 0.04%

[oblique hollow]

click on the box to see if it really is 8.0033 or something more precise

[primal flicker]

Well I was smart enough to start with only 300 oil.

This will go from a 10GW facility to 22.2 GW.

[tired viper]

I guess 10 at 100% and 1 at 20%

Is the same outpur that 9 at 100% and 1 at 120% ?

[oblique hollow]

9 + 1.2 = 10.2

10 + 0.2 = 10.2

same thing

[tired viper]

Ok ^^

[primal flicker]

Or 12 at 85% if you like more symmetry.

[lusty steeple]

Whats the meta for making a lot of plastic? Should I recycle rubber or

[primal flicker]

Yes. Heavy oil residue and recycling loop.

[lusty steeple]

Wym recycling loop?

So I go all in on rubber then make fuel from the byproduct oil which I then use to recycle rubber into plastic?

something like this

[lusty steeple]

ah so I should use alternate recipe for heavy oil residue too?

[primal flicker]

The heavy oil residue alt is a force multiplier for every oil product.

[lusty steeple]

Ah sweet

good thing I checked here first then

bummer I need to build another huge factory though

[primal flicker]

Just enable all recipes on Tools and set production to max. Instead of items/minute.

How much plastic do you want to make?

[lusty steeple]

for just my battery factory about 950/min

then I have a few small factories that maybe use 200 in total

[primal flicker]

(and obviously you can use diluted packaged fuel if you don't have/don't want to build blenders)

[lusty steeple]

I don't think I've unlocked that anyways

[primal flicker]

I wouldn't attempt without at least one diluted fuel recipe available

HOR plus diluted fuel means fuel*4

[lusty steeple]

I would see it here if i had it right?

[primal flicker]

Yes. Looks like a good time to hunt hard drives.

[lusty steeple]

Any ideas how I could fix this? Seems like an oil patch has gotten bugged through game updates

(can't place an oil extractor since its 'occupied')

[primal flicker]

Might have to load your save in SCIM and see if there's something there you can manually delete.

[lusty steeple]

Already done, even installed a mod to noclip and see if I could see extractor under the map but didn't :|

although when I looked in SCIM I couldn't see some of my existing oil extractors there either

[primal flicker]

That node might just be lost on your save then.

[lusty steeple]

I do have atleast one extractor in a place which no longer has an oil node, maybe that's what bugs it

[primal flicker]

It could be the node was moved and your extractor is still linked to it. That would explain.

[lusty steeple]

Yeah that's my theory

[median heath]

This is exactly the reason, and was explained in detail during the U6 release.

[storm sky]

i tried making an early 100% efficient concrete factory. anyone know why this doesn't work? it always ends up with the LHS constructor going at ~83%. tier 1 belts only

[median heath]

What is "the LHS constructor"?

[storm sky]

the 45 on the left

60 limestone in from a normal, 30 from an impure

[median heath]

I would not stress about this given you fix the problem entirely with the mk2 🤷‍♂️

[storm sky]

i know, i'm just wondering why it doesn't work

i thought the middle belt would back up and force the 60 to split 45-15

[median heath]

That's a lot of typing but I will do it if you want me to.

[storm sky]

go ahead

[primal flicker]

Are you letting them saturate first before enabling the output conveyors?

[median heath]

I got this... just let me type it.

Please.

[storm sky]

no, i thought it would just overflow if you let it go long enough, like a manifold

by overflow i mean even itself out

[lusty steeple]

I'm curious about this too since your math seems to check out, let's see what Sevrahn has to say 😋

[wind spade]

mergers accept equally, so 22.5 /30

[primal flicker]

Fix by splitting the 30 so the merger accepts 15/15/15?

[storm sky]

i fixed it by splitting the 30 and merging that with half the 60's split

the one going into the constructor

[median heath]

The 60 from the left is being split into 30 and 30.
The first 30 is going to a Constructor. The second is moved on and merged with another 30 from a different source.
This sends 60 in total to the second Constructor, which needs only 45.

When the second Constructor backs up, you're now at a stage where things are happening in sequence between the MERGER. Which is getting x2 30s.
This is too much and since the merger is trying to prioritize both inputs in sequence it is effectively backing up both lines, but also letting both lines through.
It can't just take half and half, because that would be 30 total and it is outputting 45.
So it has to take more than half from each to meet the 45 it is outputting.

The math then leads to it taking 45 evenly between the x2 inputs of 30
45/2 = 22.5
30-22.5 = 7.5
Add that remainder to the first input.
37.5/45 = 83.333....

And this is why I didn't want to waste my time typing...
You already fucking fixed it...

[storm sky]

wasn't a waste, i wanted to know why it didn't work in the first place

so it basically comes down to the merger cant tell which 30 to back up so it backs up both. alright that makes sense, thank you

[primal flicker]

I appreciate the under the hood explanation. Thanks Sev.

It's not enough to try things until you find out what works. Understanding WHY it works is critical.

[median heath]

Break down problems into parts.
Solve parts.
Simple 🙂

[primal flicker]

A single Lego brick is simple. Have you seen some of the technical Lego builds people make tho? You still need to know where to look for the improperly placed/missing brick (and why) when a complex system fails.

[sleek stag]

Ive seen all the memes but is this really what I need for 1 HMF/min w/o overclocking or am i doing smth wrong

[unreal spire]

Looks about the right amount of machines

[sleek stag]

This is crazy, im regretting going for one ACU/min

[unreal spire]

You can save some space/time with Steel Screws alternate

(space only, in this example)

[sleek stag]

I dont have oops

[unreal spire]

I would suggest making a blueprint for screw production without using alternative recipes, if you want to save yourself building dozens of manifolds.

[sleek stag]

whats a blueprint lol

[unborn halo]

TIL fuel generators lose no efficiency when overclocked

[median heath]

An abomination that never should have been added 😉

[median heath]

Where were you expecting them to lose it?

[unborn halo]

yeah

like how production machines are less energy efficient when overclocked, right?

[sleek stag]

?

[median heath]

Cost per output was always linear on production though.
So the output of a generator being power, would mean the cost per output on that would still be linear, no?

[unborn halo]

I was out there building like 50 fuel generators this whole time

[median heath]

Prior to U7, the generator being overclocked was linear, just not at 1:1 scale.
So if you OCd to 250% you got only like 200%ish out.
But efficiency wasn't effected.

Now they are 1:1 with their clock scale, so it's still linear cost per output as always, just that 250% = 250% now.

[primal flicker]

laughs in attempting 45 HMF/minute

[languid atlas]

what do you mean

an abomination

Blueprints are great

[median heath]

laughs in 135/min

[cedar mica]

FMF eats HFM, so why talk scale in the smaller one?

[scarlet wedge]

I’m jealous of your big factory’s

I make like 4hmf a min and I’m happy

[sleek stag]

Send a pic please that sounds insane

[primal flicker]

It's still in the early construction phase. Lots of planning went into this. About to lay out 72 foundries for compacted steel.

[primal flicker]

Make it 540.

Anyone do a "smallest effective factory" sort of challenge? Is it worthwhile or too inefficient?

[true junco]

Define effective...

SatisFactory piping?

No wait, that's electrical conduit.

[fierce ruin]

laughs in 200 hmf/min

the entire factory is just steel pipes and a tad bit of oil

[wanton basin]

If someone was crazy they could produce almost 2000 HMF per minute if they used essentially 100% of the recourses on the map

[snow dove]

me vibing with 2.1

[visual cove]

I've done 24/min ACU. 180min AW/ASW was painful but we got there in the end

[prisma kraken]

were you using the alt or regular AW recipe?

[vapid gorge]

Stop it. I’m already having to refrain from starting my 315

[visual cove]

ASW alt.

[prisma kraken]

i figured

[visual cove]

sure.

[prisma kraken]

the math on that recipe is kinda compelling, but the HSC's for it tricky

[visual cove]

not really. 1 vanilla HSC to 2 x ASW.

[prisma kraken]

its the caterium that's the tricky part imho

not that making quickwire is tricky, making enough of it is though

[visual cove]

sure. depends on if you're trying to produce the entirety of the game in 25 minutes or if you're trying to build 8k ACU in 5.5hrs

[prisma kraken]

yeah

[visual cove]

the trap a lot of people fall into is assuming their way is the only way.

[prisma kraken]

i'm not sure it can be done w/o caching AW

[visual cove]

if you're caching parts then it's not really end to end in a fixed time frame, is it?

[prisma kraken]

no it isn't, we'll see what I find when i find it 😉

just making you laugh a bit, it clocks in at needing a rate of 960 AW/min to do ADS's in 25

i think its 960... that may be 100% clock rate vs 250

i need to spend a good full day doing some spreadsheet math to get the numbers straight and in my head the right way

[visual cove]

you'll need 300 ADS assembler to complete it in 25 minutes, which means 325 ACU manufacturers.

and 76 supercomputer manufacturers.

[prisma kraken]

i count 53.333 supercomputer assemblers; 128 acu manf's

[visual cove]

ok.

[prisma kraken]

but the numbers art still really crazy big, no idea if i'll ever get there tbh

the numbers are just bonkers for the ADS's

[visual cove]

it should be there on your speedrun maths sheet though.

[prisma kraken]

some of it is 🙂

[tired viper]

Hi people ^^

I've a question about manifold. If the origin is an storage, and you put the splitters how you suposed to, whatt convey belt you use?

Like I guess that the ones that go from the splitter to the machine is just the needed to feed the machine, bout from the origin and betwen them?

you take the sum of all the machines conected and then you sustract each split?

Or how so?

[fierce cypress]

the mk of the conveyor does not matter as long as it can support the total items/min, generally higher mk is better due to faster belt speeds and faster fill time but it doesn't matter too much

[tired viper]

and that total is the sum of all the machines?

[fierce cypress]

each machine will need x items/min, and you will have y machines, so the total demand is x * y

so yes, sum the demand from all the machines

eg if i have an array of 5 constructors that each need 20 rods/min, then it would be 20 *5 = 100/min, so anything mk2 (120/m) + is fine

[tired viper]

So for right now at where I'm, only mk3, if the sum of my machines item/min is higher than 270, manifold is a bad idea, it's just takes longer, or it's fine?

[fierce cypress]

no, if you can't supply the required amount it will not work, you either need to do multiple manifolds or an injected manifold

[tired viper]

ok

Thanks !

[tired viper]

Sorry Tomato, then what conveyour you should have between thefirst and saecond splitter?

A mk2 (I guess you recive 120, then send 20 tto the first splitter, so you've 100) Or i'm just overthinking?

[wind spade]

Usually just max possible conveyor, no reason to use lower mk

[tired viper]

well...somettimes i'm short on mk2 or mk3 component

[fierce cypress]

same again, as long as it is enough to allow the items/min you need then its fine, going higher is slightly better but not necessary

[wind spade]

Automate more of them then 😛

[tired viper]

well yeah

[fierce cypress]

in my example you'd have 100 in on a mk2, 20 would go to the first and 80 would continue, 20 would go to the second and 60 would continue, etc

[tired viper]

xD

Yes, so those 80 can't be hanlded on a mk1, right?

[fierce cypress]

no, since mk1 is 60/min

[tired viper]

Thanks, that answers my question

So better just go overboard on those

[fierce cypress]

so theoretically you could change to a mk1 between machine 2 and 3 in my example

since only 60 continues

[tired viper]

Perfect, that's what i was doing already, but wasn't sure i was right ^^

[fierce cypress]

but once you get to mid/late game where resources are more plentiful its usually simplest to just do max tier for the whole thing

[pseudo cedar]

in theory for some manifold designs using mk1s for the actual splitter-to-machine belts can make them more, if not completely, equivalent to a direct split in terms of time before 100% efficiency

steel beams come to mind here

[vapid gorge]

direct split?

[oblique hollow]

balancers

if the machines need exaclty one belt of input, then a manifold with slower mk belts into machines is a lot easier and faster than a balancer

[primal flicker]

Doesn't this also apply to sushi smart splitters?

[oblique hollow]

i guess? depends

[primal flicker]

I've been setting up with a Mk4 bus speed and Mk1 feeding each input. Mk2 for overflow to sink, to ensure no back pressure on the conveyors.

[wind spade]

belt is not a bus 😛

[primal flicker]

Belt bus.

A bus is a central supply line for parts or electricity.

[wind spade]

belt bus is multiple belts going in same direction with splitters splitting material and mergers merging back products

single belt with splitters is not a bus 🙂

(it's a manifold)

[primal flicker]

Sometimes. A single high capacity belt feeding multiple offshoots is a single line bus, in my book.

Synonymous with manifold and easier to type

[wind spade]

well I'd keep the terminology in the way that is used by majority of players (taken from Factorio), not invent own 😛

[median heath]

Do those offshoots feed back onto that same belt?

[pseudo cedar]

ideally another belt on the same "bus"

for obvious reasons

[primal flicker]

There's an idea. Single line sushi. Whole factory supplied by and outputting to one continuous belt.

[median heath]

THAT is a bus. 🙂

[cinder silo]

I'd usually consider a single or double decker transport used as mass transit to be a bus.

[dapper bough]

has someone made a sheet with the math for the most sink points possible from vanilla ores, all things like overclocks and residuals considdered?

[wind spade]

yes

[dapper bough]

gib

[wind spade]

maxed sink points + 100 GW of extra power

[dapper bough]

https://tenor.com/view/i-want-more-wheres-the-rest-of-it-that-cant-be-it-zuko-atla-gif-15434522

[wind spade]

math doesn't lie 🤷‍♂️

[dapper bough]

nono, wheres the rest of the flowchart

[wind spade]

not really needed as this is impossible to reach in a game anyway

[dapper bough]

why?

[wind spade]

your pc will burn

[dapper bough]

pff

[primal flicker]

Thousands of machines

[median heath]

Tens of thousands.

But my lord, there is no such factory...

[wind spade]

the age of FPS is over. The age of SPF has come.

[pseudo cedar]

Requires using that power for full plutonium production

[wind spade]

no, that one is included in the calculations

[vapid gorge]

be sure to send us pics of the burning wreckage of your pc

[dapper bough]

I think youll find it more appropiate to send me some bread and butter

[vapid gorge]

because it'll be toast? No handouts 😛

[dapper bough]

Exactly

[teal oasis]

I have a hypertube that goes up and has tight turns. How do I maintain a decent speed in it?

It currently looks like this.

[fierce ruin]

hyertube cannon

[teal oasis]

Will that keep the speed even when there are tight turns and when I go up?

[fierce ruin]

no, but initial speed will be faster

[teal oasis]

I seem to lose most of it after the first or second tight turn

[fierce ruin]

hypertube moment

fr tho, id say just build a launcher onto the hill

[teal oasis]

I guess I'll have to figure that out then. Luckily there are plenty of tutorials on the Wiki and on YT

[snow dove]

you can use several boosters

[teal oasis]

Do entrances inside the tube give boosts or do I create new entrances along the way?

[oblique notch]

New entrances. Its the act of leaving and entering again. You can also enter at a run for better initial speed

[sand epoch]

That + a belt into the entrance to ride

[candid stirrup]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vXLuiN3FdPwJ07BFdK6ymz8Uw5nLY_paDW0NhljO3nw/edit?usp=sharing
My calculations for a 100% effecient Modular Frame factory without using any complicated percentages, most complicated is halves lol

[median heath]

48 Iron = 2 Frames

Top Constructor @ 90% for 18 Plates/min
Bot Constructor @ 140% for 21 Rods/min
Left Constructor @ 90% for 36 Screw/min
Right Ass @ 60% for 3 RIP/min
Left Ass @ 100% for 2 Frames/min

Not sure if you class those as "complicated" @candid stirrup

[candid stirrup]

Eh not that complicated but I also need more than 2 a minute

And hello sushi, been a while