math-and-meta

[wind spade]

yeah

[undone hull]

anyway, thanks a lots for those informations

[cinder silo]

Gotcha, I'll do exactly that, thanks ❤️

[undone hull]

i keep that in mind too

[wind spade]

either that, or produce just rubber here and turn more rubber into plastic elsewhere

it's 33% saving of resin 🙂

(tho costs a bit more water, but I assume it's not a problem)

[median heath]

Water cost is akin to caring about power cost 😁

[cinder silo]

I have more resin going to waste under the main refinery block due to recipe shenanigans that I can send to where the residual refinery will be as well.

Water definitely won't be a problem, the installation is next to the ocean.

[wind spade]

well, sometimes in cases like this, if you have limited water nearby, it may be a bit problematic (when place is already chosen)

[median heath]

Use a Fluid Train

[wind spade]

but yeah, I just mentioned it as a fact that it uses more water

hire friends to carry packaged water around

[undone hull]

oh gosh 🙂 you're telling me good stuff 😄

i like what i read

[cinder silo]

First thing I need to sort is the causeway, there is at the moment two temporary sinks next to the power station chowing down on loads of resin (waste bah!)

[true junco]

I convert resin to polyester fabric before sinking. A little electricity and water for a lot more sink points.

[cinder silo]

I use some resin for fabric but that is for automated filters, with the amount of coupons sitting unused in the sink I have it just isn't worth adding another refinery cluster just to sink.

[oblique hollow]

Resin to rubber, which is then recycled, is tbh not worth it.
if you do residual plastic you get 1 to 2.833333 oil to plastic

or you just use the residual rubber elsewhere

[violet magnet]

ok, math help here. the calc is calling on using copper rotor for my rotor production and vanilla screws from steel rods. wouldn't steel screws be more efficient or is it a savings of the straight steel ingot to rod to screws?

[frosty owl]

Steel rod is the most resource-efficient, even when compared to the standard rod

[oblique hollow]

technically default screw from steel rod is most resource efficient

but steel screw is just more handy

so just disable default screw if needed

[frosty owl]

Combined with Bolted recipes, the machine reduction is totally worth the less efficiency imo

[violet magnet]

yeah, tried just calcing the rotors themselves and had to disable the default to get it to change

my concern overall was the number of screw constrors i needed with steel rods

with all the recipes enabled i need 87 constructions making steel rod screws to feed 18 assemblers making copper rotors

with steel beam screws i only need 14 constructors

[glossy aspen]

does anyone know exactly how many uranium fuel rods I could make using 100% of all of the uranium (2100)? I keep coming out to 66.67 numbers and I'm not that good at math

(using the fuel unit recipe)

[median heath]

50.4

[glossy aspen]

wouldn't that take more than the amount the world has?

as I'd need an extra 1260 uranium

or am i not doing the math right

[median heath]

Unless we as a community have been wrong about what Max Ur Rods is since Update 2 and no one who has built it did so correctly....

It's 50.4.

[glossy aspen]

alrighty

[median heath]

Are you using Tools?

[glossy aspen]

?

What do you mean?

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[glossy aspen]

oh shit

This is amazing

[glossy aspen]

How much uranium input?

[median heath]

All of it?

[glossy aspen]

Yeah but how much is all of it?

[median heath]

You're on the tool.

You have all the numbers.
Use them.

[glossy aspen]

I'm just sort of confused as the wiki says the max output is 2100, though that wouldn't make sense if the max per minute was 50.4

So I believe I'm reading it wrong

[median heath]

2100 = 50.4

You're mathing it wrong.

[glossy aspen]

Oh yeah

I see it now. Thank you so much for the help, as well as the tool website as I believe it will help me extensively.

[median heath]

👍

[frosty owl]

That is some compelling math

[undone hull]

just finished my V3 of my HUB train station 🙂
Now both stations are separated from each others, and from the rail network

also did the 40 refineries for pure copper recipe ^^

[gloomy adder]

should I use crystal computers or caterium?

[wind spade]

depends which ones you like more

[median heath]

Both have their pros and cons.

[oblique notch]

Yes.

[median heath]

As long as you aren't using the base Computer recipe, everyone will support your decision 🙂

[wind spade]

even the base is fine if you like it 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

You spelled "atrocious" wrong.

[oblique notch]

And you can have your reasons even if others don't agree - nothing stops you.

Like I use compacted coal -> turbo fuel for my fuel gens. Most people hate that setup

[median heath]

As long as you're not using Turbo Heavy, I have no objections. 😄

[oblique notch]

I am

[median heath]

Why not just use Base if you're wanting to use Compacted?

[oblique notch]

because using just 1 pure oil well (and not using all 600 for safety) its very easy to clock to 10x10x10 - 10 Assmbler-> 10 Heavy Oil Refineries -> 10 Heavy Turbo fuel.

and that produces ~ 600 turbo fuel (depending on how you clock it) and that translates into 20 gw of generated power for a very simple setup.

nice. easy. numbers.

[cinder silo]

Not sure I'd go that route, working that way would make 1800 oil only give 60gw instead of 133 😦

[oblique notch]

And if you want to, if you clock the assemblers to 240%, the HO to 187.5% and the Turbo to 200% you can litterally go 1:1:1

[oblique notch]

sure. If total power is your goal, you're correct. It would be better to do that.

But my goal isnt maxing out power. 20 gw is enough to get me to the edge of nuclear, combined with a few coal nodes of power lying around and ill probably have enough to make it most of the time.

My goal is the quickest easiest way to generate enough power for the least amount of complexity.

[cinder silo]

Wouldn't it be less complex just diluting from HOR and skipping compacted coal at all though?

[oblique notch]

but larger.

I dont want to deal with a packager loop and i usually do this before blenders, plus from just a single oil node id end up with half as much total power (only about 10 gw)

The set up I use is a combination of maxing out power for the amount of complexity I am willing to accept at this intermediary stage, without driving me batty trying to set up crazy amounts of refineries/blenders/generators, and does it off a single oil node to reduce my pipe complexity.

I also don't build for big numbers. A mk1 belt of any part is usually more than enough for my reasons, half or even a 3rd of a mk1 belt is often enough for higher tier parts (and even less for even higher tier). So I dont need to produce huge amounts of power because I dont have huge factories.

I freely admit that its not for everyone - but for me, its perfect and does what I want it to do.

And that is something that I try to impart on everyone. There are the "meta" recipes or the most "efficient per raw resource" recipes which are objectively true - but that doesn't mean other recipe chains cant be useful for many other reasons... but they are always going to be something you have to discover. So I am always pushing people to try recipes that are "off meta" because until you try it you wont know if its something that works for you.

[glossy aspen]

For my train I am putting in 600 copper and 600 coal ore P/M but it is giving me about half for my input; is there a way to fix this?

[median heath]

What belt mk are you using?

@glossy aspen

[prisma kraken]

Something i found very off meta

recently, that was quite surprising to me, is that the default oscillator recipe is more efficient on caterium and rubber than the alt if you use the quickwire+rubber recipe and scrub together rips with adhered plate + coated iron plate

what was interesting about my last playthrough in that regard is i unintentionally avoided automating AI Limiters

i think i still probably did in an ECR factory for nuclear, but really didn't need them for anything but smart splitters

[median heath]

Insulated Oscillator my beloved.

Insulated is the only way I will ever make Oscillators.

[prisma kraken]

hey, its a tradeoff btw caterium vs quartz

which is more valuable to you?

to me that answer is that if you're using silica in the computer chain, that's one way to go, if you're going caterium for computers, that's a different choice

either way getting to around 50 oscillators/min makes things a lot easier

[blissful star]

i thought chopping down some cacti in RD gives you silica for some reason

[prisma kraken]

its those purple twisty coral things with the chainsaw that does

[blissful star]

the cacti do as well i think

[prisma kraken]

i hate clearing those things, lol

[blissful star]

at least used to

[prisma kraken]

the tube things?

[blissful star]

not the tube things

[prisma kraken]

i think those just give you like mycelia & wood

[blissful star]

for some reason they sometimes do but then they are out cold for the next week

[prisma kraken]

i cut down the coral things in the canyon at some point every game - there's usually a nut bush hidden in them

[median heath]

The tubes should just be limestone + mycelia.
The coral should give you silica.

Not sure which you are referring to as "cacti"

[prisma kraken]

yeah, its a lil painful clearing them & tossing the limestone every few cuts

[blissful star]

the random sticks that grow near rocks

in RD

i refer to these as cacti cuz they look like cacti for me at least

[prisma kraken]

i dunno, i'm not usually in RD with a chainsaw

[blissful star]

its not appleaing to those who want deforsestation

different story with the minerals tho

[prisma kraken]

be careful going to town on that, too much and it kills your save time

[median heath]

Yeah the tubes are just mycelia.

[prisma kraken]

i had a little fun nuking titan/west dune forest with snowballs at ficsmas and boy my save got laggy, lol

[blissful star]

i seriously forgot that ficsmas was a thing last year

in fact
i dont think i even logged on satisfactory during christmas last year

no wonder i would forget

[median heath]

I have never and probably will never enable it 😄

[prisma kraken]

i find it a fun little change of pace

the ficsmas factory is a pretty basic problem though

the sky drop of presents gets a little annoying though

but the cool thing is that you get the snowballs which are amazing in that they're exactly like nobelisks in function, but they stack in 500

[civic kiln]

Sign distance test, signs are rendered at least 4.1km away. This is a sign at the south side of the swamp seen from the north side of the desert.

6km away

[primal flicker]

Which one? I believe 57 - 61 all give minerals, and some give mycelium as well.

[rapid iris]

Omg, my man pulled out his photo album for this question

[primal flicker]

LMAO I dl'd that off the wiki

[minor hawk]

Which would you recommend and why?

[wind spade]

depending on what of those are most useful to your base

first one reduces steel cost of stators but replaces wire with quickwire
second one reduces iron cost of MFs but adds steel
third one reduces stator/rotor cost of motors but adds oscillators

[minor hawk]

Base's a mess and somewhat of an early stage, so I'd pick what could be considered the most advantageous overall for future builds

[wind spade]

there's no metric that could tell you that tho

every recipe is a tradeoff

it's up to you if you like the tradeoff or not

see my message above on the tradeoffs, which one of those you like the most?

if you don't like any then just pick recipe at random and move on

[glossy aspen]

Right now I'm working on a nuclear plant factory and don't have enough power, would it be a good idea to start up the factory in segments or should I just build a new power station? I believe starting the factory up in segments would be better as I'll have enough power with only 4 power plants on, but I'm unsure.

[nocturne ridge]

i'd do the startup in segments, or remove power from something unrelated to get it all started at once

if you could enable maybe just one or two machines in the power production chain that might let you start up one nuclear power plant, which should let you turn the rest of it on

[true junco]

Personally. I found the quickwire stator useful considering im feeding it via pure ingot caterium and pure ingot copper into fused quickwire. Also the steel pipe version of modular frames is nice. My frameworks uses both the default and the steeled frame alts.

[median heath]

QW Stator is "shift Steel cost to Caterium and save space" in comparison to the base recipe iirc.

[true junco]

Mostly. But its not as much caterium as it looks like at a glance if you also use fused quickwire.

[median heath]

I'm aware.
I'm just listing the trade-off.

What you save is Steel.
If you want to save on everything that isn't Steel, you use base.

[prisma kraken]

i think steeled frame is the best in that list, but all are good choices, rigour motor is very good as well

[true junco]

I feel like im missing something. Why is rigour motor a good recipe?

[median heath]

Instead of 6 + 6 = 3, you get 6 + 6 + 3 = 12

1 Oscillator gives you 133.3333% more output.

As 3 Oscillators quadruples the output of the same number of Rotors and Stators.

@true junco

It's even a better conversion of Rotors + Stators than the Electric alt too.

[wind spade]

well none is best, as best is subjective 😛

[blissful star]

56 i think...

[glossy aspen]

two mk 5s, sorry for the delay I occupied at the time and forgot about it

[median heath]

Are you still having the issue?

[glossy aspen]

Yeah, in fact the transfer rate went down by half.

I've had a constant stream of power, just enough to keep them going, and it's still giving me bad results.

[median heath]

Are you buffering the station with an ISC?

[glossy aspen]

?

[median heath]

Industrial Storage Container....

!wikisearch Acronyms

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Acronyms

[glossy aspen]

I don't need it as the station doesn't fill up by the time the trains goes from point a to b

Or do I?

[median heath]

How much are you putting into the station?

per/min

And they are gone....

[glossy aspen]

1200

[median heath]

Ok so you're pushing 1200.
What happens when the train docks?

To the belts* what happens?

[glossy aspen]

Well

Lemme go find my system

[median heath]

Do you not know that trains lockout during the docking sequence and nothing moves?

[glossy aspen]

What doesn't move? If you're talking about the train then yeah. Also here's a picture; they're just going into the sink while I build my factory and get more trains going out and doing shit.

The first freight station is directly into a sink as it's moving uranium.

[median heath]

Items. On the belts.
When a train is unloading or loading, nothing on the belts moves.
The station is locked out.

That's why if you're sending 1200, you can't get 1200 without a buffer. Because for 27.08s you have 0 throughput, which averages to less than the 1200 you are sending.

You need the buffer so that after the lockout there is a period where the buffer is filling the station at 1560/min to help it "catch up" and average back out to the 1200 you're trying to send.

[glossy aspen]

Though by the time the train gets their the belts are empty

But yeah that makes sense

[median heath]

Also the route time is going to determine your maximum possible throughput.

[glossy aspen]

Which is limited at 1560 due to the mk 5 limit

[median heath]

No

1560 per car is impossible.

[glossy aspen]

m

How can I see the route time?

[median heath]

Phone with stopwatch function is the most common method.

[glossy aspen]

alright

So basically

[median heath]

Throughput Equations: (1560 is used because it is the max of x2 mk5 belts, and all Times are in minutes.)

First you need TimeToFill. Which is reliant on Cargo Stack Size and Car Capacity.

TtF = ((StackSize * Car Capacity) / 1560) + 0.45133-

If TtF >= RtD (Round Trip Duration)
Throughput = ((RtD - 0.45133-) / RtD) * 1560

If TtF < RtD
Throughput = (TtF / RtD) * 1560

.
Maximums:
50 per Stack
-88.62s RtD
-1083.3 Items/min

100 per Stack
-150.16s RtD
-1278.66 Items/min

200 per Stack
-273.23s RtD
-1405.4 Items/min

500 per Stack
-642.46s RtD
-1494.25 Items/min

[glossy aspen]

alrigt

that makes sense

so I just add more cars for more stuff

[median heath]

Aye

[glossy aspen]

Alright well thanks this will help a lot with bringing in ore

[prisma kraken]

@median heath I feel like things should asymptotically approach 1560 with longer RTT and more trains, but perhaps i'm mistaken?

perhaps just longer RTT, not more trains

actually nvm, i just worked that out in my head, and i'm in error

though i did in the process figure out how to do it, but its cheating 😛

[oblique notch]

the 1560 is from one station/freight car. Of course you can get 1560 with multiple stations (ie longer trains). You can get a lot more than 1560.

but the lockout prevents a constant 1560 on a single station/car despite their being two outputs.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, stack size though sorta gimps you

i was thinking it would asymptotically approach 1560 as the trip duration increases

but at that point you need bigger car size

there is a way around it though and truly get 1560

you have to burn an extra freight car to do so, but you can 'overflow' into another car's ISC during the lockout

its cheating, you might as well toss a splitter into 2 cars more simply and do a merge on the far end

if you run into that sorta limit, you have bigger fish to fry, lol

i've only done one build that's required that sorta throughput

i needed 3000 silica/min for a mega aluminum build

but i split that between 4 cars of 750

i do think later in my current game, i will run an experiment to see if those theoretical calculations are correct

i'm still sorta slumming in phase 3 atm

building out trains and working on architecture, etc

but i think when the time comes, i'll probably tap the limestone in nw-rd and that would be a perfect time to try the experiment, since i think there's 4 pure limestone nodes there

[oblique notch]

No one said you cant get it with more than 1 car. You're completely missing the point.

[prisma kraken]

actually i already acknowledged your point in agreement several different ways

4 cars of 750, might as well split the input between multiple cars, etc

[oblique notch]

🤦

Yes. That's already acknowledged

[prisma kraken]

or did you mean that you can get more than 1560?

(think i acknowledged that too)

sorta on the same topic though, what are the rules for long trains on inclines?

i've kinda always stuck to a four car limit because i know you need to jump through hoops to make sure they're able to get up inclines or add more engines, etc

is that documented anywhere?

[wild sequoia]

Make Aluminium without Silica!

[prisma kraken]

yeah, i was doing a max out build

sloppy->electro->default

that was a big project

and yeah, i know that the yield isn't really worth it

[wild sequoia]

Sloppy> Scrap> Pure.

No need for Silica at all.

[frosty owl]

Wiki, probably under the locomotive section

[frosty owl]

Seems like there's one too many minus in the first Throughput equation.

[frosty owl]

"1560/min"refers to the (unreachable max) items moved by one FREIGHT STATION per minute. A train station can have as many freights as you want, so there's no max throughput for a station without calculating the individual max of each freight (which is below 1560)

[prisma kraken]

how many car's worth of stuff fits in a freight platform

is it 2 full loads?

[frosty owl]

I think so.
Iirc they have as much space as an ISC and the freight cars are 24-slots big (ISC has 48)

[opaque oak]

Only 1.5 cars storage in platform.

Both fluid and normal.

32 slots in car, 48 in platform.
1600m^3 in car, 2400m^3 in platform.

[prisma kraken]

you know, i've always wondered why thet make it so its more efficient to package before shipping fluid

shipping fluid has never been a thing i've done, so I don't have much insight into whether that's enough

[wind spade]

what do you mean?

[prisma kraken]

if you package fluid you can fit 32 m^3 in a solids car, but only 16 in the fluids cars

why the disparity?

[wind spade]

because you have to carry the packages back as well, so you need double the cars anyway

[prisma kraken]

*3200

i don't know, as i said, i don't transport fluid via train

the capacity just seems dreadfully low

[wind spade]

well you either carry packages back (and need double cars) or you sink packages and make new ones and need more resources

[prisma kraken]

why i don't ship fluids 😛

i don't think i've ever honestly felt a need to do so

thought about doing it once or twice to gravity feed h20 from a height, but that's about it

and opted against that as being more trouble than its worth

i guess there are a few spots where you don't have much water

in general, i wouldn't put anything that is a fuel source on a train

that turns into a bit of a nightmare if your power fails

which kinda only leaves alumina solution to contemplate as a fluid

maybe you can make a case for sulfuric acid

[wind spade]

or oil or water or any fluid 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

in fact i may try that at some point, but no rush

yeah, ofc

i just don't see it as a practical thing to do

[oblique hollow]

sulfuric acid, fuel for recycled plastic / rubber, water for normal production, heavy oil for coke, etc

id rather ship packaged or liquid heavy oil to a factory to make coke there than ship in coke itself

[prisma kraken]

there's an idea

i was just thinking i might also see a use for shipping hor for the coated cable recipe

[oblique hollow]

yes

i like that

[prisma kraken]

but that's kinda a baroque thing to do

[oblique hollow]

then again, insulated cable exists

imo coated is for on-site stuff

[prisma kraken]

i'd have to math that out vs insulated

[oblique hollow]

insulated takes rubber which is usually cheaper to make

[prisma kraken]

ehh looking at the recipes, i think i'd still rather use rubber than hor

[oblique hollow]

its an ok choice if you use default rubber

and thus get rubber and hor

[prisma kraken]

right

i'm sure there's some place on the map where coated cable was specifically designed to scratch an itch for

there's usually a specific place on the map where those off-meta alts really make sense

probably blue crater, there's not a lot of copper there

i haven't built down that way since my first GF playthrough though

[oblique hollow]

Summed up:
Default Rubber - 1 Oil to 5.222 Cable
Recycled Loop - 1 Oil to 10 Cable
HOR Alt - 1 Oil to 7.111 Cable
Poly Res. Alt - 1 Oil to 5.111 Cable

Default Rubber is an ok choice there

[median heath]

If you have another way to represent "infinitely repeating decimal" that doesn't make Discord italicize I am all ears.

[oblique notch]

Put a slash in front of the thing
italics
*not*
\*not\*

Or just put all your calculations in the code block ``` (triple tick)

[median heath]

And to denote infinitely repeating?

[oblique notch]

(I unfortunately use discord for a lot of code related discussions and need to escape out of character's a lot)

[cinder silo]

∞ out of the question?

[oblique notch]

I don't know if it's possible to do a vinculum on discord... hmm let me see.

(The line over the top of repeating decimals)

⅓ could just do this

[true junco]

Idk. But you are the only person ive ever seen use a dash to denote it.

[oblique notch]

But lots of.people don't make the connection between ⅓ and 0.333repeating

[true junco]

Technically Those people are called 1st graders. 😆

[median heath]

Again, open to ideas.

[median heath]

Very.

[true junco]

Ellipses? "..."

I know traditionally it was a "-" above the repeating string of digits... but idk if that is easily doable in disco.

"Overline" as opposed to "underline" basically

[oblique notch]

Oh. Discord does not like that. Lol. Or a bot doesn't and keeps removing it

Nope, still doesn't like that lol. Must be an auto moderation

[true junco]

What is it modding out?

[oblique notch]

This is the closest I can get but discord removes it

[true junco]

Hmm

[oblique notch]

Here without the cursor in the way

[true junco]

Another notation ive seen is to just end the string with an "r" and if its a multi digit string to either underline the string or set it off in brackets.

So...

1/3 = 0.3r = 0.__3__r

Or.

15/99 = 0.(15)r = 0.__15__r

Tho after frequent enough use, youd probabky drop the r and just underline it. Its not like there would be any other reason to underline a partial string of digits...

[primal flicker]

Maybe settle for 1/45 = 0.02

[frosty owl]

Three dots?

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

[true junco]

"Elipsis" = "..."

Just gets messy or confusing if the linebreaks in it. Personally i think i will use "underline the repeating digits" from now until "overline" becomes a viable input or command

[median heath]

How do you do underline?

[true junco]

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/210298617-Markdown-Text-101-Chat-Formatting-Bold-Italic-Underline-

[oblique notch]

could just find a copy of Mathlab and use it :p

[median heath]

I had a mathlab in my basement once...

[wild sequoia]

3.3333333333333

[prisma kraken]

.75^-1

not all repeating decimals are impossible to represent by floating point

[versed violet]

These all look weird. In school we were taught to use parenthesis for repeating part.
1.234(56) is unambigious and easy to type.

[zinc crater]

That's because different areas of the world teach repeating decimals differently.

[median heath]

Why can't we just all agree on one system of human communication?

[zinc crater]

It would probably help speed of research if they didn't have to spend so much time editing the vinculums in and out for dots or fractions lol

[true junco]

Now that i think about it, I was always taught in school that a number before a parenthesis was multiplying everything inside the parenthesis so...
1.234(56) = 1.235×56

[versed violet]

technically yes, but nobody uses parenthesis for single number.

[primal flicker]

You could eliminate the confusion by dropping the final parenthesis.
1.234(56

[median heath]

Realtalk: How did the Romans deal with infinitely repeating decimals?

[wooden elbow]

hey I have a small question. so I've got a coal miner making me 300/min coal. and I want to distribute it over 10 conveyors. I don't really understand how to do it in a calculator or a satisfactory planner. I don't know how to do the math so I would appreciate it if somebody could've helped. Thx

[median heath]

What's the highest belt mk you have?

@wooden elbow

[wooden elbow]

the highest one i've got is an mk3 belt

[median heath]

Then what you want is impossible.

Read the description of the mk3 and then realize why you can't do 300/min from "a" coal miner.

[wooden elbow]

oh, thanks

[median heath]

Building descriptions will save you a lot of pain going forward.

[wooden elbow]

sorry, another question. Once I get the mk4 one how do I make it? Because it goes 480/min so it would be possible. Thx

[median heath]

1 belt with 10 splitters.
Simple.

[frail light]

encased industrial beams

[median heath]

He's asking how to make the above distribution, not the belt itself 🙂

[frail light]

ahh

[median heath]

!wikisearch manifold

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[median heath]

^ How to split something 10 ways 🙂

1 belt, splitter per machine. Simple.

[wooden elbow]

Thanks so much! have a good night.

[prisma kraken]

is it better to do a 2 way split into two 5-manifolds or just to do a 10-manifold?

intuitively, i'd think the up-front split would stabilize more quickly

but i've never run such a test

[sonic plover]

guys, having a bit of a logistics issue. i have three 600 belts of coal. i merge 60 to the first one further upstream, then i split a fourth miner into 2 180 belts and 2 120 belts via splitter -> mk1+mk2 belts -> merger for 180 and just splitting a mk2 belt for 120 and merge the 180s on to the 600 belts, merge one 120 on the 660 belt, and merge the other 120 on a seperate 600 line

its set up so the 180s fill first, then the 120's are filled by overflow

[median heath]

How are you splitting onto a "180 belt"?

[sonic plover]

780 -> splitter -> one mk1 and one mk2 feed from splitter into merger, merger spits 180 out

or at least it should. my shit is running dry

not by much but its messing me up

[median heath]

You have 3x600 lines.
Then you merge a 60.

So you have 3x600 lines and 1x60 line.
That is getting condensed to 1x660 line and 2x600 lines.

Then you have a 4th (technically 5th) line which totals 600.
You are splitting this into 4 lines.
So you have 1x600 line, 2x600 lines, 2x180 lines, and 2x120 lines.

Right?

[sonic plover]

1x 660 2x600 2x180 2x 120 theres a third 600 i merge one of the 120s on elsewhere but i dont think its playing a factor here

[median heath]

Ok here's a question:
Why?

1x660 and 4x600 is very simple to work with an you are forcing it to be complicated.

[sonic plover]

because my blueprint takes one full mk5 belt of coal and one of iron ingots and spits out 1.5 full belts of steel ingots

i built it such that i need full belts

[median heath]

Ah, there's the mistake. 😦

Also not something I can fix. 😦 Sorry.

[sonic plover]

i prefer to have as few belts as possible

[median heath]

5 belts is fewer than 8.

[sonic plover]

but those 8 dont need to be fed to factories, 4 full belts and one almost full belt that i can use the same blueprint for minus power shards is fed to factories.

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️ I can't really help because this is an issue you are forcing onto yourself.

[sonic plover]

im not forcing anything on myself. i built a blueprint to be nice and neat in inputs and outputs and i dont want to re-do work. theres really no reason why it shouldnt be working

[median heath]

i built a blueprint to be nice and neat in inputs and outputs

This is the part you're forcing 🤷‍♂️

[sonic plover]

never had issues with that before. and im not forcing it. i just already did it, and now i dont want to re-do it

if anything its probably the 60 belt from the train being slightly inconsistent or something

like the game is literally telling me 600+180 != 780

[oblique hollow]

you can watch these belts and find out if there are gaps

[snow maple]

i wouldn't recommend running mk5s above 750/m due to floating point errors

[prisma kraken]

how can there be floating point errors on integral arithmetic?

this is a misnomer... 780 belts sometimes have issues being rendered correctly if your framerate drops below 30 fps, because the system has to interpolate the missing frames to catch up, but this is not floating point error

that's exclusive to pipes

[runic fossil]

which alumina solution/scrap/ingot recipes r the most efficient

[prisma kraken]

the highest yeild you can get is sloppy->electro->default

but you need a ton of silica that you aren't getting as by-product from making alumina

for a marginally smaller yield, sloppy->electro->pure is almost as good and a better way to go

[runic fossil]

i see

[prisma kraken]

its much more straightforward, imho

[median heath]

There are 2 equal paths to "most"

[prisma kraken]

no, just one

[median heath]

Sloppy Alumina + Electrode Scrap
Or Instant Scrap.

Both have the equally highest Scrap per Bauxite yield.

[prisma kraken]

oh, i forgot about instant scrap, i stand corrected

that takes sulfur though, right?

[runic fossil]

im not too near any oil either. instant scrap might be the way

or just the default

[median heath]

Your decision comes down to which black rock you want to use.

If Coal - Instant.
If Coke - Sloppy + Electrode.

[runic fossil]

ah

[median heath]

Using both where applicable instead of trying to do all Bauxite on the map by 1 method is probably better for most people.

[prisma kraken]

i personally don't think maxing out aluminum is a necessary thing to do... tapping 1800 bauxite with any combo of recipes is usually enough for most players to comfortably get through package-4

if you're doing something like heavily relying on drones for transport infrastructure, or trying to max out supercomputers or anything else that eats a lot of aluminum, you may need more than 1800 bauxite, but even if you're trying to hit a goal like 30/min of each p4 part (which is quite a lot), 1800 bauxite is enough with the right alt chains

more important is how you select to use your aluminum ingots

you can make 3 things with them, casings, sheets and fluid containers

[runic fossil]

i think im gonna go sloppy->default scrap->default ingot since im in the red forest near the 2 normal nodes and the 2 pure nodes r decently close

[prisma kraken]

you'll need to supply silica then

[runic fossil]

yea my bad i meant the 2 normal/pure quartz nodes

[prisma kraken]

i'd recommend sloppy->default->pure instead

[runic fossil]

how much of a difference would there be

[prisma kraken]

in my u6 save i did 1800 bauxite-> 2400 ingot

[median heath]

This is a solid option. Enjoy the build!

[prisma kraken]

and i needed 3000 silica for that

[runic fossil]

ah

[prisma kraken]

it isn't a small amount of silica

[runic fossil]

thats only 1800 quartz hm

not really that much 1800/10000 or so

was it 3000 silica exactly? theres exactly 1800 quartz near me

[prisma kraken]

it was exactly 3000

i had 4 train cars of 750/min

[runic fossil]

o

[prisma kraken]

don't even need to looking it up, honestly, the numbers are sorta stuck in my head, lol

(as was making my silica factory, this thing was a PITA to build:

[runic fossil]

1800 quartz
1200 coal
2000 bauxite
if my math is correct

[prisma kraken]

it looks right, i'm working in a new save atm where i'm still in phase 3

[runic fossil]

ah

[prisma kraken]

so can't look up the numbers quickly

i think sloppy->default->pure gives you 1-1 bauxite/ingot, so sloppy->default->default is a little more, looks right

[runic fossil]

alr thanks alot

[prisma kraken]

i would also urge you to look at the cheap silica alt if going that way

getting more out of quartz by adding limestone is pretty good

[runic fossil]

ahthanks

[prisma kraken]

np

also, just showing you a basic sloppy->default build for 600 bauxite, it doesn't have to be very complicated:

fits in 2 blueprints

the fluid buffer doesn't really need to be there, but it allows things to pause without needing to do more than flush the buffer

(i also wasn't quite sure the design would work, so it gave me a focal point for monitoring)

sloppy + electro take 3 refineries for sloppy & 4 for electro

[oblique notch]

Pipes do not have floating point errors. Potentially floating point rounding may be one of the reasons they don't go above 600, but the issue floating point math rounding would bring would be a loss of fluid or a gain... neither of which happens, evidenced by the many of us here with fully 100% working 600m³/min lines

You are correct however... there are no real throughput issues with mk5 belts anymore.

[prisma kraken]

i'm unsure of whether the game uses floating point or fixed point math on pipe volumes

there are issues with mk2 pipes, but simple pipe networks will not exhibit them, its more like when you have 100 fuel gens on a full 600 pipe that you see oddness

i can tell you the cases i've seen pipes misbehaving, and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't

things like pushing 600 water into a 250 oc'd nuclear reactor from 2 extactors just works

wastewater recycling in the aluminum or default battery, um, not so much

i've had to play a few games with mixing and matching mk1 & mk2 pipes to get that to run at 100% before

and for the default battery recipe, i believe it better to dispose of the waste water with some coal generators than even attempt to recycle it

[oblique notch]

It's floats

And it doesn't really matter because the game actually calculates in cm³ - but displays in m³

[prisma kraken]

I'd assume they're using 16 bit floats on the gfx card for pipe volume calculations

[oblique notch]

So you need 5m³ of water per min? The game is actually using 1000cm³

[oblique notch]

Cpp float. Which is 32 bit

No, why would the pipe flow be sent to the gpu? The math would be better done by the cpu

[prisma kraken]

dunno exactly what that means, but windows uses weird names for variable types

it can be done in parallel for lots of pipe segments quickly

[oblique notch]

Pipes misbehave because they are not intuitive in their systems. Once you learn all their quirks it's quite possible -even easy - to get 600m³ with no issues. But the actual Sim itself is just full of weird rules thst don't quite make sense

[prisma kraken]

i'd love to hear the devs explain exactly how they do it

yeah, i usually don't have problems with pipes

i'll say though that 3 sloppy alum into 4 electro refineries never quite runs at 100% for me

[oblique notch]

You can read the comments yourself if you want. Go to installLocation/FactoryGame/CommunityResources unzip the headers zip you find in there and look for FGPipeSystem.h (or something like that)

[prisma kraken]

didn't realize they published some of the game headers like that

useful info, thanks

but that begs me to ask, why the heck are they using floats?

[oblique notch]

Cpp is c plus plus. I can't think of a single language that does floats in 16 bits... you'd have even worse rounding errors... floats are pretty much always 32 bit, unless the language your using has a 64 bit variant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-precision_floating-point_format

[prisma kraken]

a float in c++ is 16 bit, a double is 32 and long double is 64/80 (don't ask intel arch weirdness)

[oblique notch]

A float in cpp is a Single, 32 bit. Doubles are 64bits

Plus, the game is actually using Unreal cpp which is different than classic, and unreal floats are definitely 32 bit in UE4 (tho apparently they are 64bit in UE5)

Quick Google shows me that 16bit floats (Halfs) are mostly used in gpu... since we're not talking about shades here, but algorithmic simulation of fluids, pretty confident in my previous statement that it's a 32bit

[prisma kraken]

you're right

i'm getting turned around by mmx/sse/avx

where those ops can do parallel on 16 bit floats

[oblique notch]

To be fair, I'd never heard of a half before tonight. Makes sense that it exists, but it's not something id ever seen in most modern languages I work in.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they're used all over the place in graphics

still though, if you are burning 32 bits on the volume in a pipe segment, why not just use fixed point arithemetic?

[oblique notch]

And I do all backend/infrastructure/devops work for my day job... not a place where I have to do thousands of complex calculations in seconds heh

[oblique notch]

No idea. You'd have to ask them. Probably is a reason.

[prisma kraken]

i write software for doing video, primarily delivery and streaming

but it just seems like expressing pipe volumes as <numerator>/6000 would make more sense

integer math is far faster than fp calculations

its one of the reasons javascript is kinda slow... every number in the language is a double

[oblique notch]

Hah
Knew I posted this before: #1060029896870608966 message

I would hazard the reason it's a float is because ofnthe overfill percentage which has to use floats and for converting for visual cues like "percent of the indicator filled" or "how fast it moves the flow indicators" and possibly because of the fact that volume and height mean different things in a horizontal pipe vs a vertical one and that will definitely not stay in whole number territory

[prisma kraken]

probably

one thing that it explains for me... is that when building a coal plant, i do wait for the pipes to fill, but sometimes i don't wait long enough and the plant starts bouncing on and off

because i didn't overfill it

rather annoying when that happens

i build em in 2 groups of 8 at a time

and like sequence the build as pipe & belt side a, start filling it, pipe and belt side b, turn on side a (run the power cables), turn on side b.... side b never seems to fill quite enough to not bounce

[warm wren]

I haven't played for a hot minute but I'm back in the saddle again and working on my first aluminium production. I had previously had trouble doing it with a 'feedback loop' where I used the water by product and fed it back to the solution production It kept 'backing up', in spite of my checking and checking the numbers. I'm doing it again, seems to be working so far... I've filled up multiple mk2 containers worth of scrap that I've thrown away just to keep the system going.

[prisma kraken]

these seem like some good numbers for a motor factory:

#screenshots message

[oblique hollow]

Throw the scrap into an awesome sink?

why store it indefinitely

also, the safer solution is to not merge fresh water and byproduct water

keep them seperate

[prisma kraken]

i've never had a problem with regular aluminum prod locking up

batteries otoh

i've never had them not lock-up

[warm wren]

Yeah previously I just ended up using the byproduct to make wet cement with an overflow option But I'd like the feedback loop to work, so far it is.

[prisma kraken]

for default battery, i just pump the h2o into coal gens

there's not a lot of limestone up in the bauxite belt

classic battery is imho a lot better, but it requires you to pull copper and plastic in, which isn't always practical to do

[runic fossil]

would the bottom recipe give the highest heavy oil residue to crude oil ratio?

[wind spade]

yes

[oblique notch]

You can find a lot of this comparison done on the wiki already if you wish

[brisk shore]

Official Satisfactory Wiki

This is the totally awesome community driven wiki for Satisfactory!! Come on in and check it out!
<3 @oblique notch

[oblique notch]

!wikisearch Heavy Oil Residue

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Heavy

[snow dove]

HOR OP

[oblique notch]

Lol of course Heavy Oil Residue doesn't have the usual comparison tables 🙄

[median heath]

I mean, the comparison of "Is 4 greater than 1 or 2?" doesn't really need a table 😉

[oblique notch]

Eh. I meant more for the whole weight resource points thing done on the wiki.

[deft lichen]

the resource comparisons on the wiki are biased, they'll be replaced with word descriptions @oblique notch

[median heath]

Biased word descriptions? 😉

[deft lichen]

hopefully less, there's no ideal solution

[median heath]

I mean, describing simply what the tradeoff is leaves no room for bias.

But that does require a "base" recipe for comparison to do the trade-off against 🙃

[deft lichen]

nope, you compare with all other options, not a "base"

[median heath]

Example?

🙂

[oblique notch]

How do you consider them biased? They say "this costs x weighted points and y power and uses z machines and you can see from the stools picture how many steps it has"

No bias in that, these are the trade offs

[median heath]

Weighted points is an inherent bias.

You're assigning a value to a resource that you're assuming everyone else assigns to it.
That's a bias.

[median heath]

Break down RIP alts without using a base for comparison, I'm curious 🙂

[oblique notch]

Eh. It's based of a mathematically sound Weight calculation though I will accept that it can have some bias

[median heath]

Global vs. Local is the simplest place where that breaks.

[oblique notch]

Eh... but ok. I rarely bother looking at the wp myself, just looking at the total raw resources used.

And I'll accept the current weighted doesn't take into account how common a material is within various recipes / parts.

[wind spade]

that's the same as giving each reosurce a weight of 1

[oblique notch]

Yes, because I weight it based on what I'm planning to do myself.

@deft lichen I'd be pretty sad if the tables showing raw resources used for various paths used, power, machines, ect used went away.

I don't want to read a paragraph or do the math myself to figure that out, I want to go to a wiki page and see the number directly

[wind spade]

there's infinite number of paths tho

online tools are much better way of showing the thing you want

[deft lichen]

to clarify, they won't be fully removed, rather be moved to one page, so you'll still be able to find them
we want to make the wiki more accessible to casual players, so the default on item pages will be summaries in text

[oblique notch]

Mmm.
Not sure I like that either but eh. If you do that I'll just revamp the python script I made to output a table of what I wa t.

It's easy for me to do "Heavy Modular Frames Satisfactory Wiki" as a Google search and open the page, scroll down.

The two wiki I manage that's our usual goal. Put information from a single source page transcluded onto other pages so that someone can follow different logical paths to find the same info, don't have to know a specific page name to find it

[deft lichen]

you'll do "alternate recipe analysis satisfactory wiki", open the page, ctrl+F to find the part you're looking for

[oblique hollow]

we feel like not many people will or want to look into the whole WP spiel

and its also just..... theres so many paths being disregarded

and we dont wanna do partial analysis else it might seem biased

sooooo the better option after a lot of discussion was to yeet weight based analysis from item pages

and instead try to show players the ups and downs of recipes, and for them to consider the result of more complete "paths" along the production line

[oblique notch]

And that page is going to be a couple hundred tables and easy to get lost on.

shrug not on thr wiki team, don't need to be on another. You do as you see fit

[true junco]

WP is an interesting to OK metric. But imo its not important enough to use to make decisions about recipes by. Certainly not alone anyways.

The main thing that annoys me about the production comparisons on the wiki is how many of them assume you are using Iron wire... 😆

Personally i would prefer ALL recipes assume you are using default for all prior steps, instead of somebody's opinion about "best alts"

Its easier to look at a default chain of products and then decide how you will improve it for yourself vs trying to figure out which alts where used for a whole chain of sub products. 🤔

But thats me.

[alpine moat]

Assuming you use turbofuel power, which is the better recipe given your personal situation (but for this question ONLY are being forced to pick between these 2, assuming you are this far in your "situation"):

1. Regular Refinery Turbofuel (HOR & Diluted)
2. Blended Turbofuel (HOR & Diluted)

[oblique notch]

Doesn't matter.

Because your criteria may not be the same as mine.

[alpine moat]

OK, give me your opinion, given your criteria

[oblique notch]

You can search my posts for in the last few days
..I use HOR and Compact Coal Turbofuel because of criteria that are only pertinent to me that makes it the best choice for me

The discussion about why I use HOR>Compact Coal turbofuel starts here #math-and-meta message

[alpine moat]

I mean, to be fair, if you are at the blender stage, you have trains and anything anywhere in the world is accessible and can be moved to anywhere. My thoughts are that given this reasoning and the fact sulfur is rarer, blended would be better.

But i wanted to gather other opinions. Of course I know it is situation driven at times. 🙃

[oblique notch]

Sulfur is rarer but not used nearly as much as people think. There is more than enough sulfur to do pretty much everything you might want, you don't have to not use it.

[oblique notch]

Probably not the best idea then to start the convo "settle this once and for all"... because there is no settling it 🙃

[alpine moat]

Just seems like a cop out at times, but fair enough

So, I like your logic, and i may start this way and see where it goes... and i will evaluate my sulfur usage later

[wind spade]

how am I supposed to give you answer to "what is better" if I don't know the situation?

[alpine moat]

original post was revised.

[wind spade]

still tho, I don't know which one of my personal situations are we talking about 🤷‍♂️

(and there's also turbo heavy)

[oblique notch]

Not trying to rain on your parade @alpine moat but you stepped in a big pile with that question 😀.

[alpine moat]

Hey, atleast you came back with a helpful response instead of just smacking my nose with a newspaper for asking a question the wrong way 🙂

[frosty owl]

We should create a list of parameters that can decently set the perspective/context for one's gameplay situation in regards to recipe choice, to ease in this sort of (quite frequent) discussions.
Example (1) of a "personal situation": First playthrough; No spoilers/knowledge of future tech; Have all aviable alts; prefer to build big over building as needed.
Example (2): Third playthrough, aiming for generic resource efficiency, doens't mind building at whichever scale, has clear goals for endgame

[alpine moat]

I 2nd that.

[frosty owl]

To clarify the differences I tried to point out with my examples: (1) would probably prefer the solution that avoids having the player reach out to new nodes; (2) might be more interested in the one that saves on a specific resource instead, regardless of how this may complicates the logistics

[oblique notch]

I'd rather encourage people to try it out for themselves. Find out what works for them. It's slower but leads to better informed players

[frosty owl]

I don't see how that conflicts with what I said

[alpine moat]

True, but this is my 4th play thru but the first time having a major sink into turbofuel. And just like the game satisfactory, every person is different. Given that I am a different person than most, I did not find your initial responses to be very encouraging. In fact, it was kinda discouraging. This is supported by your "stepped in a big pile comment". So, I think you realize it too.

In any case, thank you for your opinion on the matter. I have a path forward now, so thanks!

[tired viper]

hi hi

I've an assembler but it's only at 55%, but I can't see exactly why?

I'ts reciving the exact input it needs

[oblique notch]

is the light green? if the indiciator light is always green then its OK

[tired viper]

It is

[oblique notch]

fair, i was a bit hard on it. My apologies.

[oblique notch]

then dont worry about the number. THe number is "over time" so if it was off for a while in your current play session, it will hot show 100% necessarily. The indicator light is a far better ... heh indicator... of effeciency

[elder cypress]

Is your output full? Your buildings will reach 100% after a while if parts are always flowing in and out.

[median heath]

May I reject the premise because why would you ever use Turbofuel power?

[frosty owl]

Blended, as it takes away the need for coal and needs less Sulphur.
I usually have more issues getting these 2 than getting oil

[true junco]

You say this alot. Why shouldn't one use turbofuel power?

[median heath]

As I also say a lot:
Because Diluted as far, far more than enough to get you to nuclear.

Prior to Plutonium the high-end power decision was Turbofuel vs. Nuclear.
Nuclear produced more, but you had to deal with waste.
With the introduction of Plutonium and waste-free Uranium power, this decision was removed because waste-free Uranium is just flatout objectively better.

The sole practical purpose Turbofuel has at this time is making bullets. When/if they allow it to be used as an equipment fuel that will be reassessed.

[true junco]

Oh ok. I see. So at this point, its not that it is actually bad. Just that your premis is, why bother when you can make gobs of power with just alt fuel recipes and then move directly on to nuclear.

Thanks. And that makes a lot of sense. I am only producing a small amount of TF now, which is going to power at the moment, but will be diverted to turbo ammo, and possibly some vehicle fuel (tho if you need turbofuel in a truck, how far is that truck going? And why arent you using a train?)

Besides. Less compact coal going into turbo fuel means more compact steel. And I'm no where near maxed out on utilizing oil nodes anyway.

[median heath]

(tho if you need turbofuel in a truck, how far is that truck going? And why arent you using a train?)

Truck end-fuel (imo) is Batteries. So you're sourcing Drones and Trucks from a single fuel type. Far simpler to manage.

[median heath]

Thanks. And that makes a lot of sense. I am only producing a small amount of TF now, which is going to power at the moment, but will be diverted to turbo ammo

I do the opposite.
If I am making Turbo for bullets, it's simpler to just max the excess of that sulfur node out for free power than leave it there being wasted 🤷‍♂️

[true junco]

What. No nuclear trucks for a narly fallout crossover?

[median heath]

No.

[true junco]

Lmao

Serious answer is obviously no. Lll

[true junco]

The gensets are in place to burn all the TF. so i will make a line to siphon the TF for Turboammo. When the stockpile of Turboammo is full. The TF will level back off into the generators.

[median heath]

You and your yellow lights...

[true junco]

I just wont commit any other resources to make anymore TF now

Green means go. Red means stop, yellow means hurry up.

[median heath]

Yellow means you're sinning against ADA and your heresy should be burned with fire.

[true junco]

Only the Omnissiah can judge me!

[median heath]

Why are you spamming that in multiple channels?

[spare agate]

Because a los mi inventory of 500h

an is a fatal error

[median heath]

1. Reload an autosave.
2. If you're trying to report a bug, Discord is not the place.

[brisk shore]

Satisfactory Questions

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports
<3 @median heath

[sly dagger]

Anyone know the ratio of sulfur to bauxite for the base battery recipe?

[median heath]

Is it not in the Codex?

[median heath]

Oh.. actually that isn't a simple solve.
Because it's going to depend on which alts you use leading up to the base Battery recipe.

[sly dagger]

Ive only got the base recipes

[median heath]

1. I'm sorry, Aluminium is better with alts.
2. I can work with that, one sec.

[sly dagger]

but Im setting up the bauxite next to the sulfur in the swamp and dont want to overuse bauxite

I was trying to check it, but I dont have it all unlocked yet

but want to design with it in mind, if that makes sense

[median heath]

Tbf I'd snag the Classic Battery recipe before setting up 🤷‍♂️

2.5 Sulfur + 3.5 Baux = 1 Battery if you're strictly using base recipes. @sly dagger

[sly dagger]

gotcha, can probably get the classic battery

there's a couple hard drives we havent grabbed yet close by

[median heath]

Classic saves you on both Sulfur and Bauxite costs.

As for Aluminium, there are 2 paths to "best"

[sly dagger]

cool, so as long as i save 2.5/3.5 ratio ill be fine, appreciated 🙂

Was trying to check myself, but harder to do when you dont have the recipes lol

[median heath]

Classic has a different ratio though.

If you use optimal Aluminium alts, you can either be at:

7 Baux + 6 Sulfur = 4 Batteries (if you use Pure Al Ingot)
or
5.25 Baux + 6 Sulfur = 4 Batteries (if you use Base Al Ingot)

(Pure is simpler, so most go with that)

[sly dagger]

Gotcha, much appreciated! 🙂

[median heath]

Just checking -- you do know the 2 optimal options for Aluminium, yes?

[sly dagger]

I have gotten to this stage of the game only a few times and never too deep beyond setting up basic aluminum, so im going to go with no

[median heath]

You either want Sloppy Alumina + Electrode Scrap, or you want Instant Scrap.

Choice comes down to which black rock you want to use.
If Coal - Instant.
If Coke - Sloppy + Electrode.

[sly dagger]

Gotcha

[vapid gorge]

I would add in terms of reduction in logistics instant has fewer local spots you can produce it w/o importing materials so it’s probably better for local or smaller set ups.

With coke and the right recipes you actually need very little oil for a giant set up so works quite well with large or centralised alum set ups

[lusty steeple]

Can someone help me figure out the water pipe configuration here? My mind explodes from stuff like this, not sure how to simplify it so I can understand how to approach it

need ~1462 water/min into 8 refineries

[wind spade]

figure out how much water each refinery needs, put that much water in. Also remember, there's extra water coming from the aluminum scrap

[lusty steeple]

maybe I should just use 600 dirty water for 3 refineries then burn coal with the remaining 100

yeah i cant figure out how to do that either

oh I just realized the planner wants me to split it so that 149.599 water goes elsewhere too

is it even possible to use the production planner with water

this seems too advanced to actually be possible

[wind spade]

why so?

[lusty steeple]

because water behaves differently and gets stuck so cant just split it

[wind spade]

you can

water flows where is space

[lusty steeple]

then why shouldnt you mix clean water with dirty?

i.e recycled water and water from extractor

[wind spade]

because if production stops for some reason, it breaks

but you can still mix it if you know what you're doing, with some priority junctions

[lusty steeple]

yeah I don't know what I'm doing, its too much to keep in mind

[wind spade]

then just put extractors -> water -> sloppy alumina and take the water from scrap and burn it in coal gens or pure recipes or whatever

[lusty steeple]

yeah looks like i'll have to do that, just feels bad :')

[wind spade]

why so?

it's simple and works 🤷‍♂️

[lusty steeple]

kinda wasteful I feel

wasting water which could be recycled

I wanna try to recycle some of the water atleast

[wind spade]

not like water is limited in any way lol

and it is recycled if it's used in pure recipes or gens 🤷‍♂️

you're not sinking it or anything

[lusty steeple]

yeah kinda true, just feel like coal power is worthless in endgame ^^

[wind spade]

then use pure recipes

[lusty steeple]

but I think ill collect dirty water until it reaches ~600 per min into one pipe then leading that to a few refineries below then burning the rest

is there a pure recipe for alu scrap?

[wind spade]

well there's instant scrap, or sloppy alumina, but other than that, you can use any pure recipe, there's tons of them

all these need water

[lusty steeple]

I see

I think I know how ill solve it now atleast

[lusty steeple]

Need to load balance this, 4->4. Should I just send it up 1 floor then have that floor dedicated to balancing them or how much space would this require?

feels like it needs a lot of space

actually, should look and see if there's any tight blueprints for this

[median heath]

VIP junction.

[lusty steeple]

that's a new name, what's that?

[snow dove]

or separate the lines, so a machine uses either fresh water or recycled water, not a mix

[median heath]

Green = Recycled
Blue = Fresh

Piping Manual is in the pins of this channel.

[lusty steeple]

This is what ive done now, sent 550 water into 2 refineries which consumes 400 then I also have it connected to coal powerplants which uses up the remaining 150.

[lusty steeple]

So this uses gravity to restrict dirty water huh

[median heath]

No, it uses gravity to restrict FRESH water by making sure recycled water always has flow priority.

[lusty steeple]

Yeah that's what i meant 👍

[median heath]

Odd way of saying it if that's what you meant...

[snow dove]

if the fresh water backs up, no big deal, water gen turns off for a sec, if the recycled water backs up, machines shut down

[lusty steeple]

😇

Is it as easy as it sounds? Like I in my 550 water example I could run that to 3 refineries which require a total of 600 then I pump freshwater a bit above them then connect?

then I wouldn't need any coal power

because my current setup seems to already have failed and im not burning enough water

[median heath]

Yes. If built correctly.

[lusty steeple]

What are the common failing points? Not raising it high enough?

[snow dove]

headlift, trying to fit too much into one pipe

[lusty steeple]

Alright, pretty straight forward then

[snow dove]

oh and trying to load balance pipes, that just confuses things

[wind spade]

do you even need to load balance it? does it have different amounts of material?

[lusty steeple]

Yeah, 7 are running at 100% while the 8th is overclocked by 8.4% so it will be uneven otherwise

and the smelters are evenly divided for 4 inputs

[wind spade]

merge all and split again is impossible?

[lusty steeple]

Isnt that just load balancing? Total amount is over 2200/min

[wind spade]

at that point I'd just use what you have on the belt

instead of balancing it

[lusty steeple]

Hm yeah suppose I could considering each belt is only receiving 600/min now so I can balance it by underclocking and overclocking later

[true junco]

I love that pipe manual so much. 😆

[oblique hollow]

I heard the guy who wrote it is a big idiot.

[wind spade]

and apparently knows nothing about pipes, as tons of people stated

[oblique hollow]

A fraud!

A fake plumber

[median heath]

So you're Luigi?

[oblique hollow]

No, you're Luigi

[prisma kraken]

he's Toad!

[wind brook]

12 Nuclear Power Plant full overcloked,How much power they produce

[oblique hollow]

12 * 6250 MW

so 75000 MW

[wind brook]

But they use some power too right?

[oblique hollow]

nope

only waste recycling takes power

and making fuel rods

but power generators never use power

[wind brook]

I produce 6 per min uranium fuel rod

[unreal spire]

It takes power to produce their fuel initially, which can be considered their consumption

But that's it

[wind brook]

I will get 300 waste per minute

[oblique hollow]

6 /min rods is like 15 manufacturers

[wind brook]

I use 6 with full overclock

I do a goddamn adventure and finde 1200 power shard

[oblique hollow]

this is roughly how much power you need to make fuel rods and recycle waste

almost 7000 MW out of 75000 MW

less than 10% of power you will make

[wind brook]

Oh its enıugh for my factory

I use only 40.000mw

[oblique hollow]

yeah you wont have any problems with power here

[wind brook]

Thank you

[oblique hollow]

overclocking everything will at best increase power by 36%

so maybe in total 8500 MW

[wind brook]

No problem

[oblique hollow]

still not very much compared to 75000 MW

[wind brook]

I dont have so many fielf

Less machine less spagetti i think

Haha

[prisma kraken]

a u600 build is a lot of power

i did one back at the beginning of the year in my last save, and um, the 75 gw from that was absolutely enough

at one point i was OC'ing 12 pasta accellerators to 250 🙂

but to mcgalleon's point, OC'ing the reactors is pretty nice; you're usually doing the nuclear build before the supercomputer factory, so less reactors = win

also, oc'ing to 250 gets rid of needing to do a 5-way split with the fuel rods

either way, a U600 build is pretty large, if it's your first time doing nuclear, i'd recommend targeting a u200 build which will yield you a cool 25 gw and allow yourself room to triple the size

you'll find that you pretty much need to build a factory for steel, electronics and aluminum parts just to support the reactor's fuel chain and recycling needs

making ECR's make resources go slurp, lol

[lusty steeple]

Did I fail my VIP junction? Because it's overflowing now. Blue fresh, red dirty water.

[prisma kraken]

are those mk1 pipes on the outside of the wall?

[lusty steeple]

Yes

I only need ~76 fresh water per min

[prisma kraken]

call me superstitious, but i believe it a bad idea to mix mk1 & 2 pipes together

[lusty steeple]

yea the mk1 pipes are temporary anyways, just seeing if the concept works before I make it nice

[prisma kraken]

if you're having problems, that wall hole is the first thing i'd look at

sometimes pipes don't really join through floor & wall holes

[lusty steeple]

The problem isnt lack of water

I have too much

so the outside fresh water are getting pushed into the dirty pipes before they clear/takes priority

[prisma kraken]

either that or you're starving a machine of another resource, and during the pause, the fresh water fils the pipe in the waste water's stead

if you let any part of the aluminum chain block on output or solid input, you'll have fluid problems

i like putting a buffer on the water line to give myself a little wiggle room when i'm rebelting things

also, check your pump position... the pump on the top line should be same height or lower than the bottom line's pump

[lusty steeple]

wait what

can you explain this further? don't fully understand

[prisma kraken]

a pump reset's a flow's head lift to 20 or 50 meters from its position on a pipe

[lusty steeple]

yes

[prisma kraken]

you want the pipe on top of the vip to have less headlift than the bottom one

[lusty steeple]

why?

[prisma kraken]

because pipe with most headlift takes priority

@oblique hollow correct me if i'm misspoken, please

[lusty steeple]

I dont understand how to place pumps then

[lusty steeple]

pump pictured in this pic has a headlift of 42 and then there's a pump further down which has headlift of 18

oh so you want to place the pumps where the other pump maxes out?

[prisma kraken]

no, i want the headlift in the top pipe to be less than that of the bottom one

[lusty steeple]

that sounds like what i said

so now i have only 2 pumps, first headlift of 42 and then the last one 16

[prisma kraken]

just put the last pump for each line at the same height

[lusty steeple]

yea

time to flush the pipes and see if it worked

[prisma kraken]

fyi, you can snap pumps vertically to a wall to align them

[lusty steeple]

oh neat, i normally never use snapping

[prisma kraken]

i'd hazard a guess that that is part ofyour problem

[oblique hollow]

i have absolutely no clue

which is why i no longer endorse the VIP

it works, but dont ask why

also, VIP junctions should be built EXACTLY like in the manual if you wanna be certain

no extra connections , no funny pipe bends, no extra vertical distance between junctions

[oblique notch]

Yeaaah thats not the case. 90% certain headlift has nothing to do with priority, just lowest z value

No way to really know without CSS speaking up, but I'm as confident as I can be in that.

[prisma kraken]

i'm not 100% sure either which is why i asked 😛

i've done slight variations on the vip, but wouldn't create one as is pictured above

[glacial saffron]

you are talking about GW and hundreds of each machine classes

it's insane how the scaling evolve through the game lifetime

I'm yet to well understand the global map size

[median heath]

@lunar stag if you zoom in on the green you can see the orange of the merger.

Use stackable belts to run the extra material above the smarts and drop it down in when the belt capacity can handle it.

[lunar stag]

And just balance all the extra material out of whatever factory module is producing them?

[median heath]

That is a simple way to do it, yes.

[lunar stag]

I suppose that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. I'm thinking about something like four parallel lines of quickwire at belt capacity and how I'd get it from the quickwire module to the computer module

Not that exact scenario, but scenarios like it

[median heath]

Why are you doing things in terms of belts instead of throughput numbers?

[lunar stag]

Like screws or something

[lunar stag]

Because I'm trying to figure out how large of a transport channel I'll need to move everything from one module to another

[median heath]

[lunar stag]

If there's an easier way to do this that I'm overlooking, I'm all ears

Looking like a moron is temporary, learning shit is forever.

[median heath]

Idk. We have very different perspectives so it's hard to think about how to fix what you're doing.

After U8 hits and I do my next large build I will remember to grab screenshots.

[lunar stag]

Much appreciated, sir.

Right now I'm focused on expandable modules that only make one part and can scale as I fine-tune output. If I need to get away from that and start producing high volume parts in-situ as a secondary manifold built into the main production line instead of a separate module entirely, I'd like to figure out why that's the better option before I start laying down building footprints.

[median heath]

I don't do expandable.

I plan and build for permanence.

[lunar stag]

So your individual factory modules only feed one top-level production line?

[median heath]

Modules?

[lunar stag]

So take stitched plate

That's fed by two upstream modules. A plate module and a wire module

[median heath]

You and I build very differently.

[lunar stag]

You don't modularize that way at all, do you?

[median heath]

Example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/z3zrgt/outpost_zero_grassy_fields_edition/

[lunar stag]

oh

Yeah then our production stack is completely different.

Which would explain why I'm having issues balancing my belts and injecting more material.

hm

[true junco]

I dont inject. I run the manifold until it cannot support machines. Then i run another manifold for the next set of machines. Tho i suppose if i tied in the end of the previous manifold into the start of the next one, that would be basically the same thing as injection?

In other words... i do multiple parrallel manifolds to different banks of machines. Banks and manifolds that are sized to match.

[median heath]

I mean you also solve forwards, so our building methods are purely contrast, not comparison.

[potent crater]

Hi,
I always build my bases on the same idea: I centralize everything, is it a good or bad idea? I mean for example, I have only one factory for the reinforced that redistributes to the other factories that use it. Would it be better to make several factories that manufacture separately for each request?

[open zenith]

I am not really a veteran at the game but both of these can work

If you wanna go the easy route make several separately

[potent crater]

mmmmhhh thx, I prefer the hard route

[wind spade]

it's... not great. Tons of extra unnecessary logistics for little to no gain, also having to keep track of resources everywhere 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Also centralization tanks your FPS.

[oblique notch]

Centralization is great If you constantly have to seek out new resources to "feed the factory" - that way everything is in one place. Since Nodes in SF are infinite and never run out, you can take advantage of this and produce in-situ as it were to simplify your logistics significantly.

Ie dozens and dozens of trains and cars to bring hundreds of stacks of ore to a centralized processing point or 1 train and a couple cars to move the mid to high tier parts produced with that ore to another site

[true junco]

The higher up the tech ladder a product is the less space it takes to transport vs its components.

Even with a centralized "main" factory, i would still always do at least a few manufacturing steps before i try to ship them. The way im making most things the ingots may or may not take less space than the ore. So steel pipe and encased beams etc are way better to ship than steel ingots or coal and iron ore.

The only big issue is wire and quickwire. Imi need to double check vs their stack size but im mostly sure it will be better to ship caterium and copper ingots to make both wire types. Especially fused wire. I think off of the caterium and copper in the grassfields alone i can make over 10,000 "fused" wire per minute if i wanted to. 😆

[cedar mica]

To be accurate, its height that tanks your FPS, as game's imposter system dont work in height. Meaning your beautiful tower is worse then the giant platform.

[primal flicker]

Really?? That's pretty interesting...

Do you know at what height this kicks in?

[cedar mica]

Basically the game renders all the height at once. So it kicks in right away.

Think a cylinder around the player.

[primal flicker]

So it renders in a cylindrical, not spherical, radius? That would mean it becomes more significant, the higher you go. But not so noticeable at heights less than half the radius.

[cedar mica]

There is another system, that makes it so walls and such, gives a similar effect, but its not as powerful as the distance based one.

This is one of the ways CSS could add a lot of performance. Even giant platforms, often has multiple layers, to allow for smooth transport.

[oblique notch]

@cedar mica no?

De centralization helps your framerate because the game skips time for factory calculations for distant factories. Rendering is not the bottleneck in SF - your factory Sim is.

Distant factories, instead of doing every action every tick, it skips ticks - and applies a delta time to it so thst it still arrives at the same amount. This results in far less calculations per tick than if it's all in the "loaded" areas

[cedar mica]

Think the factory tick is the same, regardless. Its everything else you save on.
After all, else trains and such would not be very constant, as they might pull into station mid "tick saving" and get less.

[oblique notch]

The game is designed - correctly! - to prioritize your factory Sim over frames. If it needs more power to maintain the proper timing of your factory it will drop frames.

Distant factories take up far less processing because of the delta shift

[oblique notch]

No https://youtu.be/_fwOEF1AyUA

And "mid tick" is ridiculous, it performs around 3500 ticks per minute

[cedar mica]

Might be using old data, for factory tick.

[oblique notch]

I don't know the exact code but I can tell you that yes, it skips calculations in the distance (remember trucks pre u6? Skipping once they got far enough away? This is why)

I bet they took vehicles off that system but left the rest

[cedar mica]

Not sure it skips calculation, but might change from a tick based to a linear one, which would be easier overall.

[oblique notch]

the FactoryTick still controlls everything. It's relatively simple to just apply a delta time to the output if you only calculate every other tick you just apply a x2 to the results of every calculation and its the same.

The simulation ofnthe game already does this by default, because it's bounded to what would be the same as 30 fps - but it's not attached to frames, it's complete async so frame rate loss from other sources doesn't affect your factory.

So If you're running at a constant 60fps the game js already apply a .5 modifier to all the simulation calculations because what you see is twice as fast as what the game is actually simulating without that.

So given that fact, there is no reason not to use the exact same thing and just apply a x2 or x3 modifier

[wooden maple]

So, can I ask a question about a plan I found online. It's for 120 batteries per minute and tells me it needs only 50 silica, for 3 foundries at 100% making aluminum ingots, requiring 75 silica per minute.

Was the silica requirement for aluminum raised at any point?

[tropic hawk]

I do not believe so, but the battery recipe may have changed, im not too certain about any recipes pre-U4

[wooden maple]

the video has comments saying it's fine until 3 weeks ago so I'm wondering why the guide trells me 50 silica is enough

OOOOHHHH found it, I was mistaken.

[cedar mica]

Forgot the once from Alumina Solution?

[wooden maple]

There's some silica produced when making aluinumoxid solution -__-

Yeah

Imma go hide in shame

[loud trellis]

@cedar mica The basic understanding is, FactoryTick is in charge of all calculations and making sure the game gets the calculations 100% correct (and gets all calculations or close to it) for minimal losses, I was thinking that Lynk brought up that point in the modding discord but that was about the CPU prioritization and why the GPU isn't utilized for calculations.

[cedar mica]

But the point still holds about the imposter system, as it kicks in when things go into "background rendering".

Which dont work in height, in current build.

[loud trellis]

Even in background rendering the calculations are still done on the CPU's end iirc, besides trucks.

Or at least does calculations to a certain distance from the host and any clients

[tired viper]

How can I've 300m3/min on pipeline pump mk1?

I don'0t fully understand

[cedar mica]

5 water extractors. 2 + 1/2 per pipe.

[median heath]

Pumps have infinite throughput.
They don't care. Their sole job is headlift, so your throughput will be gated by the pipe mk1 or mk2, not the pump.

[oblique hollow]

Pipeline pumps dont boost flow rate

[hearty jay]

hey

[oblique hollow]

if you want 300/min, you need to make 300/min with machines

[hearty jay]

what can I do for this

how can I fix this

[wind spade]

#patch-notes for launch options for other rendering engines

[tired viper]

How I make the tractors

Auto re-fuel?

[wind spade]

put fuel in station

[tired viper]

I do

But it's not refilling

[wind spade]

did you put it in fuel slot?

[tired viper]

Yes

[wind spade]

is the vehicle set on auto?

or did you drive it manually?

[tired viper]

Auto

I only have fuel on one of the garages tho

[wind spade]

it only fills enough to do the whole loop

it doesn't fill to full

[tired viper]

ooh

really?then why it got stuck in the middle of the route without fuel? >_>

No, it hasn'0t refilled

Something is wrong

It started the loop with 56 coal, I'll wait to see if it refills then

Now it has 36

...then it went down to 28 at the moment it arrive,d and didn't pick up anything or refueled

and this number shows

[median heath]

Show the screenshot of the entire station UI?

[tired viper]

omw

I manually loaded the tractor to see if something is fixed, and it seems so

I'm waiting for the car again to see if it does something weird

is not picking the coal

and not refilling

[median heath]

Mods?
Multiplayer?
Dedicated Server?

[tired viper]

No mods

"multiplayer", only 2 people and now I'm solo

[median heath]

Multiplayer Broken. Plz Fix.

[tired viper]

I don't know what this is (dedicated)

Oh

So it's just the way it is?

[median heath]

Yup.

[quiet rapids]

Hey guys, im quite new to satisfactory and not sure if its the right channel to ask in. Im on coal power, but my water pumps are not working great, would anyone be able to hop on and try and help me sort it? It seems my coal gens are not getting enough water but i should be pumping more then enough.

[median heath]

Did you read the building descriptions for both pipes and water extractors?

[quiet rapids]

yep, they work for like 20 mins then break

[median heath]

How many extractors do you have connected to your one input pipe?

[quiet rapids]

Umm what do you mean by extractors?

Like pumps?

[snow dove]

the water extractor

[quiet rapids]

i have 1 pump overclocked per 3 coal plants

[median heath]

Pumps and Water Extractors are completely different things with different functions.

[snow dove]

overclocked to what?

[quiet rapids]

150% on each water extractor

[snow dove]

what are the coal plants clock speed?

[quiet rapids]

150 aswell

[median heath]

Iroh I was going in a specific direction with my questions but sure... take it away...

[snow dove]

Sorry

[quiet rapids]

Im trying not to use any guides for my first play through so only tips im getting are from here lol

[primal flicker]

🍿

[snow dove]

So 1 coal gen takes 45 water, 45*1.5 is 67.5 that’s how much water each gen takes, 67.5*3gens is 202.5

1 water extractor produces 120 water, 120*1.5 is 180

you aren’t feeding enough water

[quiet rapids]

So if i overclock it once more each should be good

[snow dove]

you could have done that math yourself

[snow dove]

do the math, figure it out yourself

[quiet rapids]

I did and it was wrong lol

[snow dove]

it’s incredibly simple math, the game tells you how much each coal gen needs, multiply that by number of coal gens, then the game tells you how much the water extractor produces

if the numbers aren’t the same, make them the same

[quiet rapids]

Thank ya

[snow dove]

Happy to help

[sand epoch]

there is even a handy calculator in the game 😛

[quiet rapids]

wait actually?

[sand epoch]

it's the search tool. you type math in and it does it.

[primal flicker]

N shortcut key

[quiet rapids]

ahhh

[median heath]

N for Nalculator

[sand epoch]

the OC fields also accept math equations. so you can set the output to the actual amount you want

[primal flicker]

But for coal just remember 45/120 reduces to 3/8 which is how many water extractors and coal generators play nicely together at 100%

[quiet rapids]

Im getting distracted taming a lizard doggo rn lol

[sand epoch]

tame a cat next !

[quiet rapids]

Theres cats?!

I lost the doggo

[sand epoch]

umm.. yup. totally has cats. not a danger to you at all.

[quiet rapids]

Oh.... Well i havent found it yet.....

Only got like 22h in the game so far and t5

[unreal spire]

You're cruising!

[quiet rapids]

Im just starting to explore and do a bit of mam, loving this game, wish i found it earlier

[azure shadow]

its such an amazing game

been a hyperfixation for me for several months now ive got around 400 hours on it so far

[quiet rapids]

Its a massive hyperfixation, i just spent 20 mins getting larry the lizard doggo to my base lol

[median heath]

Kill him.

[quiet rapids]

Never!

[median heath]

[quiet rapids]

Hes going to live forever

For update 8, will i be able to use the same save or do i need a new one per update?

[wind spade]

you can use same save but nobody knows if recipe changes will be a thing

[quiet rapids]

Ah, im mainly asking about WIPs

[wind spade]

what about them?

[tribal igloo]

I've just been deleting them, I'll make a new save once they do something :p

[quiet rapids]

If i should collect them lol

[wind spade]

nobody knows

[tribal igloo]

I collect them just so the voice stops playing

[median heath]

Sole reason to collect them atm is to shut them up.

[tribal igloo]

it's super creepy

[quiet rapids]

I agree

[median heath]

You can trash the Somersloops?

[tribal igloo]

I haven't tried yet

can you not?

[quiet rapids]

Yep

[median heath]

If you haven't tried, then how can you declare "I've just been deleting them"??

[quiet rapids]

Just tried and they trash

[tribal igloo]

I've been deleting the mercer spheres

[median heath]

That is odd, because you can't sink them.

[tribal igloo]

yeah, i just delete through inventory

[median heath]

And the game has a parity between not being able to trash things you cannot sink.

Seems like an oversight.

[azure shadow]

it may be because theyre still a WIP

[tribal igloo]

they likely don't have a point value for sinking

[wind spade]

not sure why would you delete them. Just put them in a box

[azure shadow]

thats what i do

[tribal igloo]

I want a reason to make another save, also i'm just sick of seeing them

[azure shadow]

i felt it was getting boring so i made a new one a couple weeks ago

at around 70 hours now feels much better

[oblique notch]

Eh, it's two different fields. IsDeletablr and PointValue. If it has 0 point value it cant be sunk, if I remember correctly

It just so happens they maintain (usually) parity

[median heath]

Yes.
And everything that has a 0 point value is also not deletable afaik, other than Artifacts.

Making them the exception - which is odd 🤷‍♂️

[oblique notch]

Probably just forgot to tick the IsDeletable flag to false :p

[quiet rapids]

Water problem is fixed, Thank you for the help earlier

[azure shadow]

i keep seeing it and im rather confused, what does afaik mean

[quiet rapids]

Which one would be best?

[wind spade]

whichever is most useful to you and your projects

[wind spade]

as far as I know

[azure shadow]

ah okay thanks

[quiet rapids]

I dont know if ones better to unlock for later, im on t5 rn

[azure shadow]

circuit board is what i would go for

[median heath]

You will eventually unlock everything.

[azure shadow]

i tend to enjoy unlocking everything in order

[wind spade]

you can unlock all recipes anyway so if you don't know, pick one at random and move on

in which order? 🤔

[median heath]

I'm sorry, what?