math-and-meta

[main atlas]

stitched iron plates

[willow yoke]

I have gotten to the late game for the first time, and am working on the Nuclear Plant of my dreams. Doing the math, I can pull a maximum of 2100 Uranium/m.

I am using the Alt Recipe for UCells in 42 Manufacturers at 200% Overclock (not the full 250 so it gives me some round numbers), which will use all the Uranium at a rate of 50/m per machine to create 1680 UCells/m.

I am using the Alt Recipe for URods in 42 Manufacturers at 200 % Overclock (This is where the round numbers were made), which will use all the UCells at a rate of 40/m per machine to create 50.4 URods/m.

50.4 URods/m powers 251 Nuclear Plants at .2 URods/m. Does this math seem correct?

[median heath]

50.4/0.2 = 252

[willow yoke]

THANK YOU. I could've sworn I did the math before and got 252, and when I wrote it out I got 251. Leave it to me to drop the ball at the last and easiest part. This makes my brain happy, 252 is a way more useful number.

[median heath]

If you've got the shards, 252/2.4 = 105
Much easier to build.

[willow yoke]

I might, I was just trying to get base numbers down

[wind spade]

or 100 at 250% + one at 200%

[willow yoke]

Fair enough. The real question is gonna come when I choose where the waste is gonna go. Turning into plutonium is an easy choice, but do I burn than for more power, or do I Sink it.

[median heath]

Set it up and sink it first, can always change your mind later.

[willow yoke]

A fair point. Thank you again

[gusty nexus]

staring at this spreadsheet trying to balance a turbo blend plant and petrocoke for an aluminum plant is making my head hurt

should i not bother with trying to split it liek that?

[wind spade]

turbofuel 🤢

also, have you tried online tools?

[gusty nexus]

it feels like an intermediate step in complexity before actual nuclear

[wind spade]

diluted fuel gives you tons of power already 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Diluted Fuel is far more than enough to get you to nuclear.

[gusty nexus]

they only go for target output and not squeezing the most of existing inputs

[wind spade]

not all of them

[gusty nexus]

i don't actually need much power, i'm doing it for its own sake lol

[median heath]

Clearly you have not used Tools.

[gusty nexus]

i have, but not the maximize function

[topaz hedge]

diluted fuel with blenders > packagers

[toxic latch]

Are there online tools for math? In satisfactory

[topaz hedge]

4800 fuel a min from that little setup.

[toxic latch]

I have been doing it all in my head till now

[maiden steeple]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com

[topaz hedge]

^ this is what you want.

[toxic latch]

Damm might be usefull late game

[topaz hedge]

it's useful mid game too.

it's a tool. it can be as useful as you need it to be.

[toxic latch]

Idk if im mid game im at the point of mk2 miners mk3 belts and foundries ect

[topaz hedge]

early still. it's still useful.

takes the headache out of of stuff like.. modular frames, or rotors.

[maiden steeple]

Midgame imo is once you've researched everything in t5 and 6

[crystal venture]

I've got 8 conveyors with 300 items/min, which is equivalent to 5 conveyors at 480/min (mk4 is the highest I've unlocked), but I can't figure out how to evenly distribute the 8 conveyors into the 5 conveyors

actually, what if I had 5 storages which they fed into, unevenly, with the assumption that as long as I only draw items out of each of them at 480/min, there won't be a shortage anywhere

as long as overflow from one will feed into the others

[topaz hedge]

Why?

Like is there a reason you want to compress them? Feed them into 8 production modules that consume 300/min

[median heath]

Also belt compressor 🙂

Just need smart splitters to do it.

[abstract stirrup]

Guys, how many hard drives are on the map? I’m trying to find a great recipe I know

[river night]

enough to unlock all recipes

97 in all

[drifting vale]

If you press N in game you can type math operations like a calculator

[abstract stirrup]

Thx

I need a recipe about screws, so if I haven’t unlock anything else, the probability of me getting it should be higher

[river night]

it depends on your game progression, if you collect a few harddrives early, you are going to get early recipes as well

[abstract stirrup]

I know, like charcoal

I got 10 now I hope I’ll get that

[wind spade]

steel screws?

[abstract stirrup]

Nope

[wind spade]

😦

[abstract stirrup]

The one you can craft screws with ingots and not pipes

[wind spade]

that one doesn't save any resources 🤷‍♂️

[river night]

dont you usually promote every recipe to being good in its own way? 😛

[abstract stirrup]

I know but I built my whole factory basing on that

And so I have to cover much more space using pipes

[wind spade]

no, I say "situational", not "good". Also, stating it doesn't save resources is objective truth 😛

[abstract stirrup]

Rather than ingots

[wind spade]

screws are not made from pipes tho

[abstract stirrup]

Idk how to call them

[wind spade]

as they are called ingame 😛

[abstract stirrup]

Iron long things?

[river night]

rods

[wind spade]

iron rods

[abstract stirrup]

There we go

[tall kestrel]

@wind spade was just working with the calculator and might seen a funny bug: https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ZIc5tuu6qpfNPsk4uQWg its telling me to use "-0x Assembler" producing "-0/min Bolted Frames" to feed 7,964 Manufacturer producing Heavy encased frame. Is this a floating comma thing so I should plan to produce bolted frames or does it mean that this part is unnesseccary?

[wind spade]

nah those are a bug and are not needed

[cunning meteor]

Is this all correct? using plastic and rubber to make plastic and rubber plus HOR, then make fuel from HOR then use recycled plastic and rubber recipes to make more plastic and rubber

not burning fuel to make power, Im running nuclear and geothermal only

and dont want to grab water altho if that makes me more plastic and rubber without increasing complexity too much then that might be good, but otherwise I think this is the simplest way to make plastic and rubber in a 1 to 1 to oil ratio

I dont need this much plastic and rubber but who knows maybe it'll come in handy plus it'll look cool haha

I was inspired by Kibitz's build where he was making over 2000 of each plastic and rubber so I wanted to do something like that but not to that scale

[oblique hollow]

i mean, the resin IS an important part

especially when you do 1:1 and not 1:3

oh wait, no resin i guess

hmmmm

i think using the heavy oil alt is a better choice

HOR > Fuel > Recycled

downside is you need to use water

[steady dome]

I've heard there is a throughput issue of Mk. 2 pipes where they don't reach 600 m^3/min? Is that still the case?
I'm only using a Mk. 2 pipe with 600 m^3/min throughput at my Oil Extractors, then they're immediately split into 2 Mk. 1 pipes. Would this still have issues?
Also, what's up with pipes? How can they be so overcomplicated and have so many issues?
(Ping me.)

[barren elm]

Surely you have to consider power a resource

It's not like it's free, it's directly derived from resources

[fierce ruin]

I would only consider power a resource if there is an active constraint on it.

[barren elm]

I wouldn't use cast screws beyond the early game so I get the point being made here, but it does directly save resources

[fierce ruin]

As in if making that power competes with the output you need for example.

[wind spade]

power is considered separately. Comparing cast screws with stitched plates for example, power and space savings are the same, but stitched plates also save resources

[prime orchid]

@wind spade U6 is adding 5 refineries to the layout to turn polymer into plastic instead of just having polymer as a byproduct like in U5, not sure if this is desired, just wanted to show you in case it's useful info.

also adding extra water extractors

[magic island]

here's a comparison of a few different approaches to 600 rubber/plastic

if you only use Residual Fuel instead of Diluted, starting with Rubber is significantly better in terms of power/space, with a comparable oil cost

if you do use Diluted Fuel, starting with HOR is a good chunk more oil-efficient while being a bit less power efficient

[vapid gorge]

You can make it do the full 600 but you need a careful layout, if you plan for 550 you can be less precise

[steady dome]

Fluids are so random. The machines using oil from that 600 m^3 pipe are working fine, but others using 300 m^3 pipes are acting up. Everything else should be exactly the same.
Also, the oil buffers are full (most of them) but the fluid buffers are not.

[steady dome]

What do you mean by "a careful layout"?
The only parts where I'm using a Mk. 2 pipe at 600 m^3/min throughput are pretty much like this.

[floral haven]

is this at the later game

[wind spade]

buffers are very often causes of issues

[steady dome]

What do you mean?
The building there and what comes with it comes a bit later in the game (Tier 5 & 6).

[steady dome]

You'd think they solve issues, not create them. -_-
So removing the fuel buffers could help?

[wind spade]

if you have exact production, buffer should never fill up and everything should work normally - pointless buffer
if you have overproduction, your pipes will be full all of the time (or most of the time) - pointless buffer
if you have underproduction, buffer is also pointless for obvious reasons

buffer is basically just a big pipe

and because you want to have full pipes (as we know - full pipes are happy pipes), you want full buffers

[steady dome]

I just thought it might help because fluids seem to do whatever they want.

[wind spade]

which means that if you don't prefill your setup, buffers cause issues (because they are not full). And with full buffer it's almost the same as not having it at all

much better approach is to loop the pipe

-----+-----------------------+
     |                       |
     +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
     |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

that, combined with "no valves", "full pipes" and "simplest possible setup" rules, eliminates 99% of pipe issues

[steady dome]

Well, I have 28 generators in a two-sided manifold and that manifold is filled from both ends by two pipes (400 m^3 fuel each). You could either have a 2x14 manifold, or 2 2x7 manifolds; does that make a difference?

Also, I pre-filled everything but "module 2" has some issues, all other 8 modules are fine and working as expected. They're all built exactly the same.

[cold jasper]

What issues exactly?

It could just be a pipe connection issue

[steady dome]

Well, the generators don't get enough fuel, and the HOR refineries (which produce it) are idle every now and then because they can't get their HOR into the pipe, or something.

[cold jasper]

are you going over pipe limits / not have enough fuel refs?

[steady dome]

No that I know. everything should work exactly as intended.

[cold jasper]

Because I've had problems where I built something, and then realized that I use completely wrong numbers.

[steady dome]

This is the HOR output manifold, and on the bottom are 2 of the 4 fuel blenders. I'm using Mk. 2 pipes for the section where there are 400 HOR – just like I would for conveyors – should I not do that? Should that entire pipe be Mk. 2?

[cold jasper]

What recipe are you using to produce 400 hor?

[steady dome]

4-times per module.

And the 4 blenders then produce:

[cold jasper]

Maybe upgrade some of the pipes to mk2 just because running 300 is iffy sometimes

[wind spade]

the efficiency meter is unreliable, unless you've seen them stopping and starting, don't trust it

[cold jasper]

Are you giving enough water?

[steady dome]

They are.

[cold jasper]

In the picture it looks like you have 1 water pipe, but 800 can't fit on one pipe, check that

[steady dome]

I'm using 3 water extractors to fill two mk. 2 pipes with 400 each.

[steady dome]

Well, I'm using two pipes with 400 in each. One water pipe with 400 for two blenders which require 200 each.

[cold jasper]

Are the gens oced?

[steady dome]

Yes, 26 of them use this and 2 of them are at 83.3333 %.
Therefore: 26 * 30 m^3 + 2 * 10 m^3 = 800 m^3

Btw, SCIM has that "fill all pipe inventories" (or so) option, how does that work? When I try to use that, my pipes are always filled.
Like, I can have no inputs and keep draining large pipe sections, and the fuel generator don't run out of fuel. Basically perpetual motion?

The fuel manifold looks like this and is filled from both ends by one pipe each which each are connected to 2 blenders and therefore (should) have a throughput of 400 fuel.

The 'two' manifolds are connected in the middle because the top 2 generators are only using 10 fuel each. Therefore the top manifold is using 380 fuel and the bottom manifold is using 420 fuel.

Should I instead use an ugly but equally distributed 238.0952 % for each fuel generator, so the top and bottom manifold consume the same amount?

[oblique hollow]

nah screw that general clocking stuff, clock one generator only or something

[steady dome]

What do you mean?

[oblique hollow]

instead of equally clocking all to some percentage, clock just one generator per floor, if anything

[steady dome]

That would require 66 generators though?

[oblique hollow]

ok lemme rephrase:
"Instead of clocking all generators to 238.0952%, clock just one generator down"

i dunno what all others are clocked to

do you get what im saying tho?

[steady dome]

Now, yes.
26 are at 250 %, 2 are at 83.3333 %. That consumes exactly 800 m^3/min.

[oblique hollow]

i assume the 400 lines never meet?

so one generator line gets 400 fuel and thats isolated from the other one?

[steady dome]

Oh, and with 'top' and 'bottom', I meant when viewed from above. They're both on the same floor. The 2x14 manifold can be thought of as 2 2x7 manifold connected in the middle.

[steady dome]

Not quite, the two manifolds (if you will) meet in the middle. As describe in the above message (with the image).

[oblique hollow]

well..... why

[oblique hollow]

errr in any case....
why is this refinery full

oh wait

thats a fuel generator

ok better question
are ANY of the blenders or refineries stalling?

[steady dome]

Well, as I said, two generators are underclocked to 83.3333 %, and I just chose to underclock the two top ones (when viewed from above). Therefore the top manifold (if they were separated) uses 380 m^3 and the bottom one uses 400 m^3. I just thought by connecting them, the bottom manifold could give it's surplus to the top manifold and everything would be fine.

[steady dome]

What do you mean by stalling?
As described above, some HOR refineries have HOR build up in their output because they refuse to pump it into the full pipe, or something.
The blenders are working as intended, assuming they get enough HOR.
And for some reason the HOR refineries' oil manifold isn't full, with or without a buffer before it.

[oblique hollow]

stall = machine stops production for a moment because too much stuff in output or not enough input

if the HOR stalls, consider a different pipe approach

or check for possible head lift issue

[steady dome]

Well, I removed the oil buffer from module 2 and refilled the fuel pipes. It's now working again as intended, but I don't know if this is a permanent fix.

[median heath]

2.5 * 12 * 26 = 780
0.833333 * 12 * 2 = 19.999992
780 + 19.999992 = 799.999992

799.999992 != 800

🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

isn't marginal underconsumption like that good?

[median heath]

Underconsumption would mean fuel will eventually back up.
Which means things feeding into fuel will also eventually back up.

So if anything else relies on by product from this system then there will be issues 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

true that

solvable with an overflow valve I suppose

[median heath]

Unless overflow hook with packager to deal with fuel backip.

[median heath]

Valve?? 😂

[deft lichen]

yk what I mean

[median heath]

I do, but words have meanings and we should choose them carefully otherwise people will actually build valves. 😉

[steady dome]

Yet I have too little fuel. And my buffers aren't even full, so that's not the issue (yet).

[median heath]

Buffers also are not a good idea.

Given in a system like this they will never help you.

They either cause issues or effectively do nothing.
They do not help.

[deft lichen]

do buffers have any other genuine use than with freight platforms?

[median heath]

Aesthetics 🤷‍♂️

[cold jasper]

Well, yeah, it's called cheating

[steady dome]

So would consuming slightly more than there is be better?

[oblique hollow]

given that, after 60 hours, you will be missing 0.02 m³, you damn well know this isnt an issue

[steady dome]

Yeah, I also thought such tiny differences wouldn't cause issues.

[oblique hollow]

you will be missing 1 m³ of fuel after 3000 hours minimum

[median heath]

And you know that 799.999992 != 800.

[oblique hollow]

and you should know nuance by now

[deft lichen]

wouldn't more fuel be lost if the grid were to trip, because fuel wouldn't be produced for around a second, while the generators would start instantly?

[median heath]

And you know I am literal 🙃

[oblique hollow]

and you know im pragmatic

this isnt helpful for this issue specifically.
aiming for a slightly corrected value will not fix the issue of Mizuchi's Fuel Generators or fuel production line

[median heath]

Sure 👍

[steady dome]

Ok, sorry I said 'exactly' but I consider a surplus of 1e-8 to be pretty close to 'exactly', especially in this case. xD

Ok, little logic question: if everything is calculated correctly, all machines are at 100 % efficiency (though that's apparently not that reliable :/), and I just filled all fuel pipes, why is the fuel manifold pretty empty again and my fuel generators are stalling?

Well, I removed all fluid buffers. Let's see how that goes.

Is there an easy way to fill several pipe networks, without screwing up other parts of the 'factory'?

[median heath]

If you accept the imprecision that is fine. It's your save.
As McGalleon pointed out it will take many hours for anything noticeable to happen.

For me, it's not about time. It's about if it will happen or not.

[median heath]

For generators the simplest way to turn a bunch of them off so they aren't consuming while the system fills.

Also I didn't scroll all the way up, but if you're at any point trying to force 600/min through a mk2 without looping it that could also be why some aren't getting enough 🤷‍♂️

[deft lichen]

Sevrahn breaking down after a stray photon messes through one bit in his RAM and causes a factory to halt production for 2 frames 😛

[median heath]

I don't break down though? 🧐

[steady dome]

If I could, I'd also go for exact precision but you 'only have 4 floating-point-digits to work with, so . . .
And floating point rounding error and stuff will probably internally prevent absolute precision anyway.

[median heath]

I mean you can go for precision though..

[wind spade]

and game is most likely less precise than that level of precision anyway

[steady dome]

I'm only using a 600 m^3/min throughput mk. 2 pipe for two (I think) of the oil extractors.

[median heath]

You wanted to make 800.

But then you realize 800/12 is 66.666666-

So if you want precision you now just... don't pick 800 because it causes repeating decimals.

[steady dome]

Yes, but it also allows me to make the maximum amount of power from those 300 m^3 of oil. And pragmatically speaking, it will take quite some time for the imprecision to be an issue. And even then, it might not even really be much of an issue.

[median heath]

Ah, you're solving forwards.
That's the issue.

[steady dome]

Eh?

[wind spade]

that's the issue in Sev's book

[median heath]

You're starting at the node and solving forwards from there.

[median heath]

I mean you also do not recommend it 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

I do not recommend "I have X what can I do". But at some point you kinda have to "solve forward", e.g. "I need to use 2000 oil for this and here I want to build factory from 600 oil, what do I need"

I do not recommend solving forward without a clear end goal, but with end goal it's completely fine to do so

[median heath]

<@&387163995947270144>

[dark badge]

@fierce ruin yo

why you spamming A

i wonder if something is on their keyboard

[steady dome]

Might just feel really funny or they're hacked or something.

[dark badge]

you clearly are typing so im going to assume its on purpose

!mute 992412847944507476 spamming letter A 1d

[shadow prairie]

Uraniumguy#9630 was muted | spamming letter A 1d

[median heath]

Dropping that 300 to 297 puts you at 792 which is perfectly distributed into 66 Gens. 🤷‍♂️

Or 26 @ 250% and 1 @ 100%.

Dial it up 1 notch:
299.25 puts you at 798
798 / 12 = 66.5
Still clean and no repeating decimals 🤷‍♂️

[steady dome]

Might've been better but I didn't consider it at that time, and I'm certainly not rebuild everything again.
Also, are there no 'awkward' imprecise productions anywhere in the fuel production line?

[median heath]

In the 2 I just listed? Shouldn't be.

299.25 / 120 = 249.375% of the Oil Extractor.
299.25 / 30 = 997.5% of Refineries.
399 / 50 = 798% of Blenders.
Which is 6650% of Fuel Gens.

[steady dome]

So is there any tool with which I can just fill my pipes easily, without them being filled permanently, which is what SCIM apparently does?

[oblique hollow]

...no

turn off your generators if you want those pipes to fill

[steady dome]

I have turned off all fluid generators and emptied all fluid pipes with SCIM (so every module would have the same amount of fluid in the pipes so they'd be full at the same time). Then I waited until the generators and manifold was full, saved, and turned everything on again with SCIM. But of course it doesn't just go that smoothly and work.

[oblique notch]

Yeah don't turn them on with scim. That turns them all on and start drawing from your pipe at the exact same moment, and since their holds are empty that's hundreds of m3 of liquid that's going to exit your pipes.

You need to turn them on in sequence, over time

[steady dome]

They are not empty; fuel generators accept input when they're turned off.

[vapid gorge]

Just turn like 1 off and they should flood because you’re overproducing right?

No idea why you’re messing with SCIM for this

[steady dome]

Yes but that would probably easily take 10+ minutes for just 1 fuel manifold, out of 9. And then there are the pipes connecting the blenders and generators which also add some to the volume I'd have to fill.
I don't know why I'm using SCIM (for that). I know one thing for sure: fluids are by far the worst and most annoying part of Satisfactory and I'm kinda sick of them.

[vapid gorge]

If you stop 1 generator the whole chain will flood behind it right? And you could have turn the previous sections on while building the last

And yeah - sometimes you have to wait while a system fills

And fluids are fine when you get the basics - you sound like you’re torturing yourself

[oblique notch]

well when you mess with SCIM on these things its only going to make it worse.

I dont know if Im just blessed or something but ive never had any issues with pipes - i know i know, anecdotal which doesnt help your situation. I tend to think that one of the problems however is that, because there are a few finicky bits, everyone jumps in with a ton of advice on how to "fix" it and even if someone isnt being actively helped/addressed they end up with this side knowledge. Problem is, in most situations, its just not needed.

You need 3 things to make a successful pipe network: 1) Less consumption than flow. 2) enough headlift. 3). patience.

With over 1200 hours in the game since update 3 Ive never had any of the issues that people have had, even when building large fluid networks full. So i must be doing something right.

I always plan for a bit of extra flow versus needed consumption. Helps reduce issues, and its not like belts where you see it stopped across your whole factory (even less of a problem with indicator-less pipes. (solves #1)

I alway start my production chains as the highest point - all consumers of the fluids produce from that point onward are always lower. This reduces the need to worry so much about adequate headlift - i also usually place an extra pump, uless the headlift for reaching the top of the network is already less than half of the total a pump can provide. These solve #2

And there is no substitute for patience.

[steady dome]

I'm absolutely fine with waiting and even actively getting stuff ready if I knew it would do the job, for good, without me having to do it again and again.

[steady dome]

I thought I knew the basics, I've played Satisfactory for an hour or two. It seems there are just a thousand tiny little things to know for everything to run smoothly.

I'm also wondering, am I just too 'stupid' to do the whole fluid stuff correctly, or is it just too hard and overcomplicated (and there are some bugs)? Considering how many people seem to be struggling (I think), it seems to be the latter.

[oblique notch]

I think it comes down to like i said: too many people have "advice" and all of them combined makes it far more complex than it actually. The other thing is that people try to treat it exactly like belts. It isnt. its nothing like belts 🙂 That is the other hang up most people seem to have. trying to "split" flows and "balance" fluid. you dont have to do any of that.

[wind spade]

you also shouldn't

[oblique notch]

shouldnt what? oO

[wind spade]

load balance fluid

[oblique notch]

oh. yeah. Its practically impossible and its a reallllyyy bad idea.

oh i said dont have to you are correct, you shouldnt is a better way to put it

[wind spade]

yeah, that was my point 😉

[steady dome]

Why more flow/production than consumption? Shouldn't producing just enough be, well, enough? Unless you're talking about 600 m^3 of consumption which seems to be buggy at the moment.
Also, wouldn't stuff start to backlog (or whatever the word was) and production therefore start to stall? How much is "a bit extra"?

[vapid gorge]

The buffers from the producing machines should cover the spin Dow time

Personally I don’t do that

[wind spade]

your setup can work perfectly fine even without overproduction 🤔

the bugs that required overproduction are fixed already

[vapid gorge]

So quick basics?

Have the pipe manifold be at the same height or higher that the feed point of the machine

Loop the end of the pipe manifold back to the start of the manifold

Pre fill machines

Don’t use valves

Don’t try to load balance

Don’t use buffers

[oblique notch]

the floating point math error rounding something or other was? then yeah. no. you dont need over production at all. its always been possible without it, but it was just some small situations that it might happen and i just prefered not to deal with it

[wind spade]

well there was "5m3 deleted from each machine on save load"

[oblique notch]

oooh yeah that one

[wind spade]

I'm not aware of floating point errors 🤔

[oblique notch]

that was a bigger deal than any other bug

i dont even really know if that one (rounding) even is real or not. I could see it being a possiblity at extremely tight systems - ie nuclear - where even a tiny bit off and a tiny bit of pause in one machine may end up gunking up the entire system. My suspicion is, that if there is any issue with rounding, it smooths out over time and most systems wont ever notice it. And with Nuclear now needing 240 instead of 300, its easier to not be an issue anyways.

[wind spade]

I don't think there's any rounding

internally the game uses liters to count fluid

[oblique notch]

well there is always rounding 🙂

[wind spade]

so it uses integers

[oblique notch]

theyre floats

not ints. It counts in 1000, but they are floats.

the litre to display change of m3 is to hide the floating point math somewhat weirndess. It basically reduces it by a factor of 1000 and so you dont see any difference on the outside - and hoenstly, the game doesnt really care much either. One time you may end up with "move 1001" and the next time you end up with "move 999" and it balances out over time.

(and more realistically its more like "move 1000.0000005 or 999.99999995" and you notice it even less

given tho that the mk3 pipe mod is discontinued and broken broken now... im going to guess that has somethign to do with clamping things down and making that kind of rounding errors even less of a problem, and will probably never mention it again so as not to confuse or mis-inform others

😁

[steady dome]

Well, I kinda can't do the whole "create a loop from back to front" thing the way I built it. But it's still being filled from both ends.
I'd pre-fill machines, if it were that easy. Pre-filling normal items is trivial (especially if you're a bloody cheater), pre-filling fluids is kinda annoying.

[steady dome]

Well, I used valves at some places on the oil extractor side of things. And I used buffers before because I thought they'd make things work better, not worse.

[oblique notch]

i will give you that the tools that are given - buffers and valves especially - are for very specific purposes and not helpful in other situations. and the game does not do a good job of explaining that at all

[vapid gorge]

Yeah they work different than what people think. They do have specific uses though.

As for ‘feeding it from both ends’ , that’s mainly what you need yeah but I’d have to see the whole set up.

From here out though plan to have space for a loop

[steady dome]

But how do you have space on a two-sided manifold?
1 side of the junction is for input, 2 sides are for generators, and the remaining one is to continue the manifold.

[oblique notch]

add another junction...

                m    m    m 
input ---- + -- + -- + -- + ---+
           |    m    m    m    |
           ---------------------

[steady dome]

Fair enough. xD
Well, yeah, haven't planned enough space for that.
Also, could you have the loop go over the manifold, or would that height difference be a bad idea?

[oblique notch]

or ... change your designs. dont do a two sided manifold. Use two pipes from a junction at the begining:

             m   m 
          ---+---+---
         |           |
input ---+           |
         |           |
          ---+---+---
             m   m

Lots of ways.

And yes, the loop can go over the manifold if you want. I wouldnt make it very high cause then you run into headlift issues, but yes, it can.

again, as long as headlift is enough to fill the top pipe, and as long as you fill your pipes before hand.

[steady dome]

Ok, thanks. I'll consider that for future builds.
In this case, I upgraded from the previous version of that power plant and I preferred to not increase the width of the modules, so I didn't think of that. And maybe I just didn't think of that in general.

[prime orchid]

does satisfactoryproductionplanner know something we don't?

why does it say this recipe makes 18.8/min when the game says 18.75?

[steady dome]

Rounding?

[prime orchid]

judging by the numbers it gives when i change the output to 1,000 i don't think it's rounding. it seems like it gives pretty precise numbers

in order to get proper numbers i have to change turbofuel output to 1,002.6667~

[steady dome]

Weird. When I calculate the per minute value from "5 every 16s", it's just the expected 18.75 though.

[prime orchid]

this is with output set to 1002.6667~ which is 18.75 converted to 18.8

maybe this site is just outdated? idk

[vapid gorge]

So pipe shape in this could be important?
I’m not 100% sure if this matters

• I have the initial pipe feed be just above a lower pipe that is the loop and I have the machine inputs pipes branch off the lower.

This might not mater
This might mater
This might mater but only for specific designs.

[vapid gorge]

What planner is that? Don’t recognise it

[prime orchid]

^

[vapid gorge]

Just new webpage planner? I’d trust whatever one gives you further decimals

So prob tools

[prime orchid]

that one is precise it just seems like they have a number incorrect

[vapid gorge]

@steady dome so like this but with the feeds going down (I don’t recommend the pipes feeding upwards like in this pic)

[vapid gorge]

From your description it sounds like they rounded 0.75 to 0.8 which is unacceptable

[prime orchid]

^

actually yeah it does seem like it's rounding to 1 decimal place. turbo motors should be 1.875 but it has 1.9

but it's only with that one number. all the others are precise

[vapid gorge]

Yeah that’d be enough for me to not use it

That’s weird

[prime orchid]

yeah it's pretty dumb but i still like it for some of its features. all the calculators have things i like and don't like about them so i switch between them

[still brook]

I wear aluminum is just messing with me at this point. I'm trying to do large scale Sloppy + default scrap but every setup i've tried so far stalls if the outputs isn't 100% used.
The latest one I tried was a block of 4 refineries, 2 solution 2 scrap.
Both water ouputs feeding back into one of the solution refineries, but after deleteing the output belt and putting it back in i've noticed the water output clogs the whole thing

[tawdry sail]

What is that tool?

[prime orchid]

#math-and-meta message

[soft ridge]

I still don't know what's a nice number of reinforced steel bars to be producing per minute

It's like I have to do 3750/min just for 100% efficiency

[versed violet]

1. A standard reply would be: however many you need for your next stage product + couple for your building use and no more.
2. Why steel bars instead of pipes? What do you need them for?

[lethal arch]

Hello, can anyone help me with my fuel setup?
I should be producing 1200 turbofuel/m but no matter what I do I can't satisfy my generators.
I'm splitting it to 2 600 pipes which each feed 53.3 generators @ 250% clockspeed.

[frosty owl]

MK2 pipes struggle delivering max flow. Either carefully adjust the pipes so you can get them to behave or add one ore more pipes to lower the throughput-per-pipe

[lethal arch]

Ah, okay. I've tried everything with the pipes, can't get them to behave haha 😄
But what If I split the pipes from 2 to 4, so I have 300 each pipe (still mk2 and using valves), you think that would work? Or is there anything else I can do?

[frosty owl]

That's what I was referring to when I said "add one or more pipes". As long as the flow is below ~580 getting the expected flow shouldn't be too complicated

[lethal arch]

Perfect, was just making sure. It's my first time setting this up solo so I've been scratching my head how this works. ^^ Thanks for the help! 🙂

[lethal arch]

I just want to make sure, before I suffer more, this works right?

[frosty owl]

I suggest not limiting the valves. Let the fluids figure themselves out and overflow accordingly

[lethal arch]

Alrighty, I'll do that 🙂

[frosty owl]

To clarify: leaving the valves van be beneficial against sloshing. I'm just saying not to limit them!

[lethal arch]

Ah, so the valves have a function even though they're not limiting anything, that's good to know actually. So much to learn about fluids in this game jeez 😄 Thanks for the clarification

[frosty owl]

You're welcome. If you have more doubts or seek more details, feel free to ask, but if you're looking for a more "complete read" know that there exists the Piping Manual too, between the pinned tools and links

[lethal arch]

Oh I didn't know, awesome. I'll def check that out if I'm having more issues, but always good to hear questions, as dumb as they may appear, are welcomed 😄

[wind spade]

same (or even better) way to limit slooshing is to loop the pipe instead

[frosty owl]

At the modic cost of the ability to know the flow in pipes :P

[lethal arch]

I read that earlier when someone else had questions about pipes. Could I do something along the lines of this?

[frosty owl]

||Dumb questions just make us feel a bit smarter ||

[wind spade]

yeah, that's ideal. Because then you don't care about slooshing, since it just goes around the loop (and slooshing is mostly relevant at the end of pipe, but loop doesn't have end 😛 )

[lethal arch]

TIL a lot... xD
Thanks for the help ❤️

[frosty owl]

Just don't ask wether to use manifold or load-balancing or you'll cause a world war

[lethal arch]

No worries xD

[wind spade]

especially if asked in context of pipes

[cinder silo]

Both have their place and add a bit of variety when not building huge 😄

[frosty pawn]

would be better if the main pipes were raise a little so that the little pipes that go into the generators are sloped down. here's an example of how i do it with refineries. it helps prevent backflow (aka sloshing) by giving the pipes a preferred direction (down). doesn't even need to be a steep angle, even a tiny bit is fine.

[tawdry sail]

I dont remember this.
I know that the train station can't transfer the max transfert rate of 2xMK5 full belts due to the docking.
But truck stations could do it, right?

[oblique notch]

This seems to have been mostly corrected in the backend now. And unfortunately some of the "fixes" actually make it worse now

But sloshing is definitely real

[frosty owl]

Was this mentioned in the patch notes or anywhere else?

[oblique notch]

Somewhere it was mentioned the 5m3 hold that "disappears' on load of a game was fixed (that caused a lot of sudden draw on game load that messed up a lot of pipe systems).

Also, in general a lot of the optimizations done seem to have improved the manner in which machines draw liquid from the system in general, reducing some of the hiccups that occur there too.

In general even 600 input/600 output systems are pretty stable, as long as headlift is accounted for and a loop is used from last to first, and pipes are full

[frosty owl]

The 5m buffer was the only part I knew of

[oblique notch]

Plus there seems still a ton of misconception around what the actual unreliability is and what is just the nature of the fluid simulation.

Slosh/backfill causes unreliability for example, but isn't unreliability of the fluid system - rather its an intended(ish) complication, one dealt with by filling pipes fully and proper headlift , the return loop, and sometimes using gravity to your advantage

I still probably wouldn't do 600i/600o for nuclear tho. Anything that can cause disaster if it fails doesn't feel like a good place to risk it lol.

Redundancy, backup, acceptable tolerance are all real world strategies after all 🙂

[median heath]

600 works as long as you loop the system.
Dead stops cause the slosh which causes the issues because mk2s are more sensitive to it than mk1s.

Which I think is why they are altering pipes down to 500 max in the future, because it's too sensitive for how they want it to behave 🤷‍♂️

[wet python]

the fluid mechanics in this game are very sloppy

[oblique notch]

Where did you hear that? I believe it as an option, but I've not heard any definitive solutions yet (I assume such a path would also result in reduction of fluids needed for recipes

[oblique notch]

Not really. They are very good simulation.

Problem is... fluid movement is not something that is intuitively understood by most people, or their understanding is missing key features

[median heath]

Marv would have the link.
But they said their pipe balance is dropping mk1's to 250 and mk2's to 500.

All fluid recipes would be altered by the same % so production wouldn't be affected at all.

[wet python]

fluids don't move THAT slow

[oblique notch]

Honestly, I'd say I'd anything the simulation is too good, and thst causes problems because people don't really understand what industrial applications of fluids is like.

[oblique notch]

I feel like this statement comes from an assumption the pipes are smaller than they actually are.

Internal radius smaller, that is

[wet python]

fluids would never flow BACK if the pressure is being applied in only one side of the manifold

[oblique notch]

... again. That's a statement on thr assumption of full pipes. Partially filled pipes definitely have slosh. Liquid always tries to equalize. And backwards is entirely possiblr

And when you take liquid away from the middle of a pipe... there is now a gap behind a section of the pipes, causing backflow.

Yes. Higher pressure should indeed make that less likely, but it's not impossible. And we don't have an option for increasing pressure. Not really anyways (though it is part of the calculations, its just hidden behind headlift and flow)

I will say I don't believe the calculations take Into account going from a mk2 > m1 pipe should increase the speed of water, but this is a game and with flow rate being the value to produce/consume in this scenario, a mechanic that effectively created flow from nothing would be a bad idea 😉

Besides they call it flow and headlift in the display/gui. But its really also got pressure (but not super involved pressure, as I just mentioned) and volume as well in the calculations; they "simplified" it to just flow and headlift to reduce confusion (I'm not sure it may have had the alternate effect tho)

[wet python]

even without pressure, gravity itself should equalize water level in pipes WAY faster. It seems all the liquids have way too high density, and behave themselves like a goo.

IMO pressure should be added as a variable in the calculations, instead of headlift.

[oblique notch]

It actually is pressure, not headlift 😁. It's just renamed and simplified because in real life it's pressure head, and it's far more complex than it sounds. I mean there is an entire branch of physics devoted to the study of how fluids move.

By using only the head part of it and naming it headlift the hope was too simplify the interaction for players by again being just about how high you can go and how much you can consume

I will certainly say the system does need some tweaking, and probably a bit in the way of a hidden tutorial or some adjustment with how it's introduced, but I have no idea how to do either of those things. No experience here

[wet python]

headlift in the game doesn't change how liquids move horizontally in pipes, so it's far from pressure.
I agree that developers should make it easy for the common player, but I think they oversimplified it to the point of it being counter-intuitive for anyone with a little more knowledge.

For example, electricity is simplified but it is still intuitive even for an electrical engineer.

[mystic moon]

I think the problem is that doing anything more realistic old have a huge performance impact

[oblique notch]

That's because they discarded pressure overall, or at least the effect of pressure over distance. Not with lift obviously, bt you can't have lift without pressure. But they did discarded the pressures affect on speed or anything like distance - there is no ONI or Minecraft equivalent of a "magma blade" for example - if fluids are hooked up to a pipe they will continue to flow all the way through the entire system (Assuming completely level) until they equalize - so yes viscosity is completely ignored.

But as F or F said... performance. Simplification. Fluid dynamics is insanely complex and for a performant system that doesn't cause too much draw on resources, it's remarkably good

That all being said, the combination of it being so very different from belts, a few bugs in the implementation early on and a few quirks resulting in a lot of "fixes" and strategies muddling the community knowledge base leads to a lot of confusion and a lot of people thinking they need something they don't or adding things they don't.

[oblique hollow]

viscosity supposedly exists tho

and as for pressure: it kinda exists but its not that universal

like... a dead end pipe being pressurized from one end? that shitter will not stay still, it will try to move, even if it means moving against the supposed pressure

[frosty owl]

Do pipes going into machines count as "dead ends"?

Or are they lively ends?

[oblique hollow]

machine full makes that pipe a dead end

ive repeated that like 500 times at this point

and its in the manual

[frosty owl]

Pfft, reading manuals is for nerds

[vapid gorge]

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions about how easy it is to manage hydrodynamics in pipes

[cinder silo]

Imagine if this game had water hammer, those 90 degree bends would be stuffed.

[daring sonnet]

I just read the wiki, shouldnt it say 300/min?

or 300 was the old value?

[sand epoch]

old. pre OC changes

[daring sonnet]

thx

[oblique notch]

pre U7 (last tuesday) changes, since they changed overclocking. since you can now get to 250% proper overclock (and that actually means 250% power produced, not 200% like it used to be) 300 water would be impossible to provide to a 250% nuke

[oblique notch]

We should get together with @oblique hollow and program a highly realistic fluid Sim game. Obviously right, fluid Sims are stupidly intensive to process well, but we take bare minimum 3d world and graphics, and leave all the space we can for the Sim. Then make people try and setup a basic oil-> plastic refinery 😅

With all the byproducts and paths to complete that I know McGalleon would love to see in SF

[vapid gorge]

that sounds liek a nightmare

Fluid dynamics is the 2nd worst dynamics and thats only because Thermodynamics includes fluid xD

[oblique notch]

i know right? But we could like, tell people its a way to make SF Fluids easier, give it to them, they get super frustrated with it and throw it accross the room and either a) never bother us again or b) realize how much easier SF fluids really are? 🤣

sounds like a win/win! (except for the part of having to make the damn thing and struggle through fluid dynamics ourselves.... )

[vapid gorge]

I feel it would just end up finding out there's some good software some university uses and we'd essentially just gut that and gamify the UI

[oblique notch]

lol!!!

[daring sonnet]

Uranium Fuel Unit really isnt worth enough the hassle with the extra work for the oscillators right?

although it is a 50% improvement on energy output... is this one of those "depends" decisions?

actually, is every nuclear decision a "depends" decision? I mean, in general is there any part of the process that is objectively better or worse?

[sand epoch]

It is to sink it to get rid of waste.

[daring sonnet]

but wouldnt I sink the plutonium rods?

whats to sink when Im dealing with uranium fuel units? its not even waste yet, am I missing something?

[sand epoch]

My bad. Thought you were talking the 2nd level of nuclear :/

[daring sonnet]

no, im noobing the hell out of nuclear still

[vapid gorge]

Well think of it this way - if you used that alt recipe and wanted to get the same power you could use it and build like 1/3 less of all the other infrastructure right?

[daring sonnet]

thats actually a good point, sorry if my questions are dumb, but Im still getting the grasp of using the wiki and calculator properly

also, this is probably a known number, but if my math is right, for each 100 uranium waste I need a reserve of 83.3333 Uranium for recycling and disposal, right?

this is what Im based of

[vapid gorge]

uuhh possibly - I don't recognize that calc

[daring sonnet]

100 (uranium for recycling) because 250/2.5 and 83.333 (uranium for reactors) because of 208.3333/2.5

[vapid gorge]

all the base recipes I take it?

[daring sonnet]

im considering all alts

[vapid gorge]

Base recipes is cheapest if you just want to sink it

for example the base recipes you need 75 waste to Non fisile and 25 to pellets

[daring sonnet]

my calculation only got as far as fertile uranium, the rest is inconsequent for complexity I guess

[vapid gorge]

I mean fair but I did just snip the part involving the waste at you

[daring sonnet]

so, non-fissile is preferable?

[vapid gorge]

It's cheaper in resources so it's often the choice if you want to sink rods

[daring sonnet]

the wiki mentions it has a 3x higher WP, I dont actually understand what WP is, but I was going rfom that

I guess I thought it meant in the end it was cheaper

[vapid gorge]

Not sure what that is either tbh.

but the base recipes for plutonium rods is the set used to quickly get rid of waste. You get fewer P rods ofc.

[daring sonnet]

hummm, I think I understand your point, the extra Uranium should be pretty useful for a little sacrifice on production

[vapid gorge]

Just depends what your goal is - you'll get more points with alt recipes because you'll make more rods but you'll need more infrastructure and resources

are you doing a maximum uranium rod power station?

[daring sonnet]

i was aiming at something close to it

but I was struggling to understand how much uranium I should save for recycling

but if I dont use Fertile I really need to save nothing, I havent thought about it before

[vapid gorge]

Well Max Power? you use all the uranium for uranium rods

There's probably some sort of ratio if you want max sink points and they probably talk about it on the P rod wiki page

[daring sonnet]

yeah, Im pretty sure its 1 to 0.83333

but your idea is probably better

I mean, what sane person would prefer more tickets than power?

[vapid gorge]

shrug up to you and what you want 🙂

It's a sandbox game, you set your own goals xD

[daring sonnet]

fair enough

either way. thx again, it helped me a lot

[vapid gorge]

I'm building in circles for example - totally unescesary

[wind spade]

Whoever goes for most tickets?

[daring sonnet]

yeah, I get it now, but then I was mostly seeing it from a utilitarian lens

[wintry agate]

Which one should I choose?

Second one?

[vapid gorge]

both 1 and 2 are more flexible than 3 imo

[wintry agate]

k

[frosty pawn]

i like 1 but usually it means shoving stacks of 500 quickwire in and out of train stations

limestone can be found pretty much anywhere so if youre doing something that needs silica near a quartz node, the added limestone is not a problem

[wintry agate]

k but what doesz quickwire do?

I am doing 2 i think

WTF is this

in caterium

[fluid heath]

;) you know what it is

[wintry agate]

sus

[wintry agate]

But is there way to fix it?

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-rock-gif-21708339

[fluid heath]

But what is the problem

[wintry agate]

I cannot place a miner

[fluid heath]

You need to blow the rocks

[wintry agate]

How

[fluid heath]

Blow up *

[wintry agate]

Do i gete explosive

What tier

[fluid heath]

Yes, research in the mam

Sulfur

[wintry agate]

What research?

oh

[fluid heath]

Get predicted

[wintry agate]

where do i find that

[fluid heath]

Same way you found the rest

[wintry agate]

k

[fluid heath]

Look on an interactive map where to find some

[wintry agate]

ty

[wintry agate]

interactive map?

[fluid heath]

Yes, look up intervative satisfactory map

[wintry agate]

Can yu dm me the link?

[fluid heath]

Sure hold on

[frosty pawn]

quickwire is for computery things after you've done 1 or 2 space elevator deliveries. silica is also for computery things but important for aluminum too

there are also quite a few alt recipes that use quickwire instead of wire so you basically combine copper and caterium with fused quickwire alt to do the copper and caterium stuff

once you have a lot of alt recipes and 3 space elevator deliveries, you probably also have a bunch of factories and logistics everywhere so having more choice over what raw materials to use and what products to combine into other products can help you do stuff like save power by making things faster or save one type of resources because you have a lot of another type etc etc

[wintry agate]

@frosty pawn thabks slot for the info

I was afk

Then my pc gpu temp got up to 93 celcius

[frosty pawn]

im playing satisfactory because its so damn cold today. pc is helping 😄

[wintry agate]

Lol

[vapid gorge]

You either ship the ingots and make the quickwire else where or bring the other items to the QW

[mystic moon]

I just have a big train to ship the quickwire lol

Less efficient but makes me happy

[oblique notch]

or, if you want it entirely in game, you wander around until you find one of the sulfur deposits - not a node, but the rocks of sulfur (yellow colored in the rock) when you hand mine it ADA will inform you its sulfur and unlock the ability to scan for it. Then you can scan for it and go to a node

(or you can scan for it after the first node of the MAM tree? i dont remember its been so long)

[tropic hawk]

Ah yes, heater

[wintry agate]

btw

I already have a 23 slots

of sulfer

But What is the explosive called=

umbrella

[oblique notch]

then use the MAM to start researching. Eventually you'll find the explosives

[tropic hawk]

Sulfur + coal -> black powder + steel pipe -> nobelisk

[wintry agate]

ty

thanks yall both

[viscid shadow]

My brain is fried can some one check my math? I have a belt of 600 Uranium, and each use of 50 uranium takes 15 concrete and 30 Sulfuric acid, so that means I need 180 concrete and 360 Sulfuric acid for my belt of 600

[sharp lion]

sounds about right ye

[tropic hawk]

If those numbers are right, yes

[oblique notch]

Yep. You can always verify most of this stuff in SF tools, by selecting what your making and then going to the Resources and limiting it to what you have, then change to maximize output:

[viscid shadow]

yah its not that complicated

I am just tired

[versed violet]

Have we got any hints on what will happen with the beacon ingredient for fuel rods alt recipe?

[tropic hawk]

Not to my knowledge, which does make me nervous

[frosty pawn]

no news on that yet but i guess probably steel beams?

[wet python]

is it correct? one fully overclocked pure oil pump (600/s) can sustain 133 fuel generators with diluted fuel?

[cold jasper]

Yup

[cold jasper]

You could also bump up even higher with turbofuel, but thats a controversial opinion

[wet python]

i wasn't prepared for THAT many generators... and each one is damn big too.

[cold jasper]

I made a blueprint that uses complex clearance to put 5 batteries in there too without using up anymore area

[tropic hawk]

<laughs in nuclear>

[cold jasper]

<Laughs in nuclear processing and plutonium processing (and the loops)>

[cold jasper]

This might be cursed, but <laughs in bioburners>

[tropic hawk]

Ever done a Remotely Throttleable Modular Input Full 252 Equivalent Nuclear Power Plant?

[cold jasper]

No...?

But I think bioburners still beat it

[tropic hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/loads-shotgun-gif-18026290

[cold jasper]

Imagine trying to create that much power in bio burners...

[tropic hawk]

21k burners

Each burner is 30, right?

[cold jasper]

[cold jasper]

40

A 33.33% increase

[tropic hawk]

15750 burners then

[cold jasper]

Imagine needing to refuel of them shudders

[tropic hawk]

<fuse trip noises>

[cold jasper]

⚡⚡

Batteries don't even charge from them...

[gusty nexus]

how do i use valves to enforce feeding water byproduct back into prior steps in the process (i.e. aluminum manufacturing)?

on second thought, it appears that valves actually fucked up the entire process, and removing them (and redoing the piping in the process, since the valves apparently chopped them into weird little segments) fixed it

Am i better served using the byproduct to feed something else in order to avoid complications with backflow

[vapid gorge]

you don't, you use pumps

[oblique notch]

check the pins for the Fluid Manual and use a priority input

or pumps

valves have this bad habit of not sustaining the amount you set them to, becuase of how they operate. Pumps just prevent backflow even when unpowered, giving you the same effect

[oblique hollow]

Usually its easier to just dedicate a few of the alumina refineries to run only on byproduct water

and the others run only on fresh water

[vapid gorge]

A whole zeno's paradox on having smaller and smaller sets of refineries running on smaller amounts of waste water

[oblique hollow]

its not really a paradox, its a finite limit you approach really fast

[frosty owl]

I think someone managed to get to 1k

[frosty owl]

You could think of biomass burners as "biomass-powered batteries" ^^

[frosty owl]

And since you can't clock machines below 1% (iirc, right?) it gets stopped quite fast

Or was it just power that didn't change below 1%...?

[oblique hollow]

you can get 0%

iirc

[vast jungle]

It's called standby button 😉

[vapid gorge]

but that last refinery will produce waste water right?

[oblique hollow]

at some point the scrap refineries dont make enough to feed a solution refinery.

it diminishes really quickly

its not a positive loop, its a negative loop

[vapid gorge]

Sure but doesn't that mean there's a small amount that needs to go somewhere?

[oblique hollow]

nope

pick whichever case you want

for every refinery fed with fresh water, theres a finite amount of recycling refineries needed

[vapid gorge]

ah right. Didn't realise it conveniently ratiod

[oblique hollow]

you get 1/3 of your input water back out

with default recipes

so you just need 2/3 fresh water and 1/3 recycling

for sloppy and default scrap its 3/5 of input

normal solution and electrode its 7/18

and for sloppy + electrode its 7/10

sloppy and electrode thus yields the most byproduct water

[opaque oak]

And then there is me with 1-to-1 refineries with Sloppy one being downclocked to 75% to match single electrode refinery and new unlimited water mixed to recycled water flowing back for each pair...

[vapid gorge]

I think you could still do that with the right clocking

[opaque oak]

Yeah, I'm just weird.

And I do things like this. Picture from mockup before doing a blueprint set. Because I have to do 36 of the modules.

The weird thing in the middle is the priority input junction.

[oblique hollow]

VIP junction my beloved behated

[snow dove]

are you actually using those floor holes or are they clipped through

[opaque oak]

Using the holes.

Haven't had problems with my own save so far. Only once when helping another person.

Cannot place the refineries into the BP because of height limits, so will just include everything else and then manually place the refineries, lifts and pipes to them from the holes.

[pale geode]

Probably more fitting here. Have 10 constructors running at 1%. Trying to figure out how much it actually save but I think MW only show 1 digit after the comma. Will try 100 after I update unless anyone else knows how much each actually consumes

[balmy siren]

What is the maximum stack size for uranium waste?

[oblique hollow]

500

[vapid gorge]

easier to just look at how much 1 constructor uses at 1% right?

[vapid gorge]

you know you can look at the machine when you clock it to see how much it consumes right?

[pale geode]

It just shows 0MW so it doesnt show it correctly

[wind spade]

it uses roughly 0.003 MW

you can check e.g. here https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/codex/buildings/constructor (rounded to 3 decimal places)

that was on U6 though. I'm not sure how much they changed it on U7

just checked wiki, it seems it uses 0.0091 MW on U7

[pale geode]

Wierd, I had 10 connected and they used 0.1 (or the game rounded it to that at least)
Ok with it using 0.0091 makes sense. With 10 that makes 0.091 and that rounds up to 0.1

[wind spade]

yeah

[versed violet]

Is it necessary to touch the nukes OC dial after the update? I've heard coal gens needed that to apply actual modified overclock? Or nukes will just know htah 250% means 'use 0,5 rod per min'?

[wind spade]

I think they reduced water consumption so you'll have extra water, but it'll work

[oblique notch]

you can also just reduce all your nukes to 200%

that will be 100% exactly the same as it was before

other than less water lol

but everything else if it was carefully balanced, will be used in the same amounts

[versed violet]

nah, I like how they are more compact now

they are in monofold arrangement anyway

[topaz hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/910618766025576529/1051989991196213358/image.png mine just uses freshwater + recycled water and i make sure the machines never stop

[vapid gorge]

I don't suppose you're around @wind spade ?

[wind spade]

👀

[vapid gorge]

Trying to pull at a logic thread using tools

I've got a plan I'm tailoring

I'm picking through the different Super computer recipes - the current plan uses Super state and the total oil use is 175 oil

I physically remove the other 2 super comp recipes that aren't being used and the total oil use increases

Just can't pick out what the 'change' could be considering I didn't remove a recipe that was being used

[wind spade]

huh

[north tinsel]

Hi

[wind spade]

can you link the two lines?

[vapid gorge]

Sure one sec

[vapid gorge]

this is the plan - as far as I can tell it's only using the super state recipe https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=TwciTt7YyfJZbLkBI6ZD

It could just be me being a doofus

and this is with the 2 non used sup comp recipes https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=Lh3nzaYsYe5BfiVO8NXK

[wind spade]

it indeed is using only that 🤔

ok so my guess (well not a guess, it's most likely) is that maximise is at work here

since maximise doesn't optimise for raw resources, it just takes whatever solution it finds (as long as it produces the most possible)

[vapid gorge]

oh shit

you're right I'm a doofus

[wind spade]

and selecting different recipes changes the solver model in a way that it first finds a different solution

[vapid gorge]

plutonium rods is screwing me

Thanks xD I needed another pair of eyes

[wind spade]

which is kinda a bug, but yeah... ideally don't use maximise 🙂

[topaz hedge]

Don't put so many things in it at once either xd

[vapid gorge]

Yeah it was just a quick dirty fix that I should not have done xD

[wind spade]

that is not a problem, as long as all of them are items/min mode

[vapid gorge]

I'm trying to minimize the use of certain resources and play around with it xD

[wind spade]

yeah tools not really ready for that lol

[topaz hedge]

It's a clutter issue for me lol.

[wind spade]

yeah, just saying that tools can handle that normally, as opposed to maximise mode 🙂

[vapid gorge]

yup 😄 Trying to build a world using minimum steel/alum/oil product

[topaz hedge]

why minimum steel? the other two make sense but xd

[vapid gorge]

Hyper local single factory using only resources within like 400m for absolutely everything to tier 8 (inc space parts)

trouble is - no coal. So have to use coke steel and electrode alum

[topaz hedge]

fair

[vapid gorge]

so xD I focused down the plutonium rod recipes to use least oil/steel - maximised the waste use to make 0.5 p rods pm, so without changing the recipe I just changed it from maximised to 0.5 and it's suddenly using more oil xD

[wind spade]

well "use least weighted resources" may mean it uses more oil 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

But I'm not changing any of hte produced item numbers? (as far as I can tell)

[topaz hedge]

do the american thing and use more oil x:

[vapid gorge]

no recipe change - just setting the production to what Maximise found in the first place

[wind spade]

point being that the tool optimises for "lowest weighted resources", each resource is assigned a weight based on it's appearance on the map.

maximise just finds any solution. items/min finds the "least weighted resources" solution. So while the maximise solution may use less oil, it probably uses more of some other resources (especially the rarer ones). Items/min solution uses least weighted amount of resources

(if you're part of beta, you can try there, it allows you to change resource weights, so you can try there, though it's on U5 recipes and it may do weird stuff sometimes)

[vapid gorge]

Interesting. I'm going to follow it down the line to see what changes

I think rubber concrete is the devil here

did not expect that change

[wind spade]

here are weights for the resources:

Desc_OreIron_C: 1,
Desc_OreCopper_C: 2.4386694386694385,
Desc_Stone_C: 1.3314415437003406,
Desc_Coal_C: 2.2776699029126215,
Desc_OreGold_C: 6.375,
Desc_LiquidOil_C: 6.015384615384615,
Desc_RawQuartz_C: 6.702857142857143,
Desc_Sulfur_C: 10.289473684210526,
Desc_OreBauxite_C: 7.196319018404908,
Desc_OreUranium_C: 33.51428571428571,
Desc_NitrogenGas_C: 5.865,
Desc_Water_C: 0,

bigger number = rarer resource. The tool minimises the total weight, e.g. [amount of iron used] * [iron weight] + [amount of coal used] * [coal weight] + ...

[topaz hedge]

til stone is worth more than iron

[topaz hedge]

rubber is used more than iron in my world..

[wind spade]

well "worth"... it's rarer

it's not really a "best" or "only" rating system, but it's one I have and works decently well for most recipe choices

[crystal venture]

It will take this many refineries to process an mk5 conveyor of iron ore. Should I use 22, and accept that not all the iron will be processed, or 23, and accept that the refineries won't operate at 100% efficiency, or should I use extra refineries and underclock to be as precise as possible

[vast jungle]

Or you overclock at least one of the 22 refinery

[sharp lion]

Build 22 and overclock the last one so it produces 10 extra/min or underclock a 23rd so it only makes 10/min

Instead of typing in the % at overclocking you can type the items/min

[crystal venture]

oh

thats an option? niceee. thanks

[crystal charm]

it's been a while for me, but is that water flow going to sustain itself?

i usually do extractors piping to one end, and one to the other end

[opaque oak]

Shouldn't be any problems related to the injection points to the manifold.

[crystal charm]

i thought it might be that build style, cause i was getting this

[opaque oak]

Even using straight runs on all should work fine.

[crystal charm]

but then i went back and checked, and realised i'd forgotten to connect a pipe

starting to stabilise now

[opaque oak]

But if you want, you can even move the two lower pipes one slot up in the manifold. To get all with straight runs.

[crystal charm]

it still wasn't stable, so i shift one of the extractors to the end pipe, and now it is

[frosty owl]

More specifically, the "issue" is that in the first plan the planner outputs "residual plastic" byproduct. In the second one the byproduct is "fabric" instead, requiring more oil than originally needed for the same amount of plubber made/used

[shy mist]

how much energy make one nuclear reactor

[vast jungle]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Nuclear_Power_Plant

[vapid gorge]

hmm didn't see that - ended up finding other errors like the stator recipe and electro rods

[oblique hollow]

yes that is a coal generator, very cool

[wind spade]

(context is a few messages back in #satisfactory )

[oblique hollow]

ah

[sand python]

the context is the kid wanted everyone else to do all the math for him and didnt want to learn

[fierce ruin]

Tip #1, save your power shards for your miners, unless you are going to overclock that generator to 200%, in which case the numbers double and it is easier to setup.

Tip #2, It takes 3 water extractors split over two pipes to provide enough water for 8 coal generators.

Tip #3, make your power setups by water, electricity is required to move water up from its point of origin whilst
items on a conveyor do not require the same.

[shy mist]

How to go to tier 5 and 6 the faster wave

?

[snow dove]

you produce the items for the space elevator, then unlock the milestones

[tropic hawk]

Yep

[fierce ruin]

You can either do the space elevator, or port your world into SCIM and cheat in the tiers and milestones.

[tropic hawk]

If you chest in the milestones, did you really earn them?

[fierce ruin]

It depends, I did it every time after my 2nd playthrough because I’ve already played the game and all I am doing is shaving ~20 hours off of my playtime.

I assume this isn’t @shy mist ‘s first time through?

[wintry agate]

Thx for the tips man 😄

[frosty owl]

Sorry, my comment was strictly about oil usage, since that's the resource I saw you mentioning

[uncut kraken]

Hey guys- I just set the smelters up to produce 270 steel ingots- About to start on the constructors now- but whats an ideal ration for steel beams and pipes.

i see the steel beam one wants to eat through 60 a min 😐

ignore me- i found what I can do with em

[cold jasper]

When making encased industrial beams, use the encased industrial pipe alt

[uncut kraken]

ill add that to my sticky notes.

[magic island]

there's no single "ideal" ratio because you'll be using beams and pipes a lot for manual construction, not just in production

[uncut kraken]

1 beam and 1 pipe takes 90, so just gonna build 3x of this.

[cold jasper]

Steel beams use a lot more then pipes, so the alt is much better

[uncut kraken]

I dont have an alt yet. Im not making encase beams at the moment. Im just doublin up each factory before i start next tier after unlocking mk2 miners

[cold jasper]

You don't have any alts?

Not even cast screw?

[uncut kraken]

I have some yes- but not for steel bems.

[magic island]

throughout the game, you will use tons of beams to manually build (mainly conveyors, but other buildables too)

pipes will probably be used in much greater quantities endgame in your automated production, but they're important for manual construction too

so you need a healthy supply of both, regardless of what else you produce with them

[uncut kraken]

I have cast screw- I went hunting this first! haha

[magic island]

just to clarify, there are no alts for steel beams or pipes. there is an alt for ENCASED beams, which is the next step after what you're doing

[mild tartan]

Anyone else really hate long conveyor belts?

Like, it feels like they have to be as short as possible or you've messed up somewhere

[snow dove]

nah i use em all the time

[magic island]

I find long belts tolerable within a big factory if I can keep them tidy, but over open terrain I'll look into a vehicle solution

more of a design/style matter though

[mild tartan]

Yeah

I like ground machines and conveyor belts suspended above personally

[fierce ruin]

You can use the new blueprint feature to make good looking conveyor busses so to be fair I have no problem with it anymore.

[wind spade]

conveyor busses 🤢

that's valid in factorio, not here

[vast jungle]

a satisfactory conveyer bus could be just a bundle of 3x3 belts... we have 3D ! 😉

[wind spade]

well satisfactory bus is also pointless as we have fixed input and fixed output, not like in factorio's malls and science

[vast jungle]

its annoying enough to keep mixed belts for autosorters running in Satisfactory... if you don't need to mix things, don't mix them ^^

I even built a rubber/plastic factory that doesn't mix outputs during the whole production process... much easier to debug and the same layout can be used for plastic or rubber.

[cinder silo]

I mix low throughput belts because it is a lot tidier having one or two belts mostly full than ten or more almost empty.

[vast jungle]

the problem is that mixed belts cannot properly block

[cinder silo]

Yeah they need to overflow somewhere, other processes, stores or a sink, if you can do it, great it makes for an elegant and minimalist solution, but it doesn't work for everything, saturated lines being the chief example.

[vast jungle]

at the moment I am trying to channel the output of an autosorter back into a train station (before overflowing this belt to a sink)... so I can have an autosorter distributed over multiple places

[cold jasper]

Doesn't science have fixed input and output though?

[wind spade]

each research needs different packs in different amounts and takes different time to finish

so your consumption may be very much different from your production

[cold jasper]

Same with space elevator?

[wind spade]

that's one-time cost

[cold jasper]

Also thats the first 30 min of the game, then its consistent

[wind spade]

not really

[cold jasper]

After you research something, it doesn't need to be researched again

[wind spade]

in SF you pay the cost once and then you never need the materials again. In Factorio you need the packs again for other techs

[cold jasper]

Then why do people devote the entire world's resources to spelevetor parts that fill up quickly?

[wind spade]

because they can?

sink is also a thing

[cold jasper]

the simple spelevator parts also get used later on?

[wind spade]

that's not the point of what I said

[cold jasper]

Oh, ok then nvm

[wind spade]

my point is that in SF you can keep producing things forever (and do) because overflow goes to sink. So there's never a case of "machines stopping because output full" in most games

[abstract stirrup]

Guys, what do I need to unlock to see my factory on the map?

[wind spade]

while in Factorio, your production goes to crates or to labs, where consumption is variable in both cases

[wind spade]

nothing, that's not ingame feature

[abstract stirrup]

Bruh wtf

Damn

I’ll use the mod then, but that’s disappointing

[cold jasper]

SCIM

Oh, live, nvm

[topaz hedge]

superstate supercomputer or regular supercomputer?

[deft lichen]

According to WP, superstate wins

Somehow OC supercomp seems to be the worst in all cases but I really like it

[topaz hedge]

it's fast, and simple.

I like it too, but I can't justify the aluminum cost of it

[abstract stirrup]

Are 6 heavy modular frames/per minute good for my fist factory making them?

I just got to phase 2 but I don’t know if they are a decent amount….

[topaz hedge]

any automation is better than none :p

[abstract stirrup]

Does that mean it’s bad 🥺

[topaz hedge]

"good enough" depends on the needs of your world.

Not at all. if it's enough for your needs then yeah, it's good xd

[abstract stirrup]

I mean, they are only useful for researches and to make manufacturers

I can basically build a manufacturer every 1,30 minutes

[deft lichen]

Yes, absolutely

[abstract stirrup]

feeding it though....

that's a lot of stuff

[topaz hedge]

They're used for space elevator parts too.

[deft lichen]

Manufacturers are a step up in complexity, good job getting it working sustainably 👍

[abstract stirrup]

well, not my objective rn xd

entire building 🙂

[topaz hedge]

and train stuff. looks very nice ^^

[deft lichen]

Computers are up next, those are easier though imo

[abstract stirrup]

i'm crafting some of them to make the exact amount to bring stuff i need with 1 train

i wanna bring more steel pipes in cuz they are eating my iron

so i'll look forward to them, thanks for your thoughts on that!

[mental basalt]

this is aesthetically pleasing jesus christ

[abstract stirrup]

Happy you like it!

[mental basalt]

i havent even gotten to putting my lines in buildings yet

let alone organizing them

[abstract stirrup]

That’s actually my first one, the thing I understood is that at some point you have to stop and do a real project that won’t be modified in the future. Before that, I had like 3 stages of factories that were there just to made me reach phase 2 and the materials to build that

[mental basalt]

how come u still have the "Build the space elevator" quest

[abstract stirrup]

I placed that down and completed the objective. Then I brutally destroyed it because it’s cool in design but I don’t know where to put it

[mental basalt]

ah

[vapid gorge]

Yeah the tool was making several unexpected oil usages that I had to break down

[abstract stirrup]

I always think about that being a “temporary building”

I just discovered the power of generators that uses oil waste instead of coal

[vapid gorge]

imo sink the coke instead. Early oil production is very temporary and not something I'd want to base my power supply on

[topaz hedge]

burning coke is alright. temporary sure. it helps with the power demand of oil

[abstract stirrup]

I think that if I find a way to keep the waste production, I might go for generators

It doesn’t seems to difficult

<famous last words>

[vapid gorge]

It's not difficult, I just don't like very temporary power set ups that rely on other things. I segregate power and other production completely

[tropic hawk]

do you mean HOR?

[vapid gorge]

technically hor is the precursor to coke - so coke is still wate

[willow yoke]

I just realized, is there any reason to max out Mk 3 Miners on pure nodes? For example I have a Caterium node I am using to make quick wire. I was doing the math based on using a Mk 3 Miner Overclocked to get me 1200 ore per minute. But I just realized that Mk 5 belts can only transport at 780. Does it matter that I can produce 1200 if I can't ever pull it out fast enough

[fierce ruin]

There is no way around it without modding the game at the current time. I do believe the devs plan on adding a second belt output eventually though.

[willow yoke]

Good to know, but currently, I should be doing my math based on 780 then, not the max numbers, correct?

[fierce ruin]

Yes that is correct.

Although, bear in mind the b2b connections with MK5 slow it down, reducing your items/min to below 780.

This can be avoided by not having segmented conveyors and instead linking them into splitters or storage containers.

[tropic beacon]

Oh really? Is that a well known issue?

[willow yoke]

Wait, so between every Mk5 belt, I should have device to break it up. That is wacky

[wind spade]

it's one of the option they are considering, but it's not "planned" like that

[wind spade]

will slow any belt down

[wind spade]

simple way is to just split it into two belts as soon as possible and have two non-full belts

since you don't lose items/min, you lose max throughput

so if you don't have maxed belt, you won't be affected

[vapid gorge]

Like greeny said - it also depends if you care about max throughput and finely tuning things

There are other options too

-keep it to 1 belt but only connect it to mergers/splitters rather than belt to belt (b2b)
-Weld the belts together to make it one long belt

[tropic beacon]

How do you weld them and how does b2b change the throughput?

[vapid gorge]

ok so first b2b

It's not 100% understood but there's a % chance that any b2b can stutter an item back on the connection thus effectively slowing down max throughput.
Low frame rates can make this worse and it happens on all mk belts

Welding - if you have to segments of belt connected you can build a merger/splitter on the joint, let it finish build, then delete it and it'll become 1 object

Belt welding does get WEIRD after like 500m AND if you go over 1000m theres the danger of crashing your game.

But as an example this is just 1 belt

[tropic beacon]

Oh wowww good to know, thank you

[vapid gorge]

belt welding on non straight/flat belt sections CAN be tricky though but that's not an issue most of the time and you can plan around it

[fluid heath]

You can place conveyors directly on pipelines?

[vapid gorge]

I used wall mounts 🙂

[fluid heath]

On the pipelines? Or is there a hidden wall

[opaque oak]

Walls and mounts removed after building probably.

[vapid gorge]

what baldur said 🙂

The trick to building neat stuff in the game is buy building tons of other parts you delete after to set what you want right xD

[opaque oak]

Fortunately you can usually now do the fiddly bits only once as a BP, and then spam it much easier.

In this case making a BP with some mounts hanging in the air at correct heights.

[abstract stirrup]

Simple question: a train is an equivalent of….120/ items per min…240…480…?

[vapid gorge]

Depends on the incoming and outgoing belts and time between stations and number of cars it has

[abstract stirrup]

Oh

[vapid gorge]

It’s possible to get more than 1000pm per car for example

[abstract stirrup]

Anybody has an excel sheet with those math things?

😁

[vapid gorge]

On the wiki there are formulas for it

[abstract stirrup]

Really nice

[vapid gorge]

Generally it’s pretty safe and simple to dedicate 1x 780 belt per car. Unless it’s quite a long trip that works

[abstract stirrup]

I produce 30/ min of the thing I need to transport

And I exactly consume 30

[oblique hollow]

just use one freight car lol

[vapid gorge]

Belt it over?

[oblique hollow]

no need to math it out

[abstract stirrup]

Too far and also a disaster in aesthetics

[oblique hollow]

a train is almost overkill for that

if you had drones you could eveen drone it over

[vapid gorge]

What tier you at?

[abstract stirrup]

Oh I just forgot I also need another materiel

[abstract stirrup]

Phase 2

Ehm, upgrading in milestones

[vapid gorge]

Just make a temporary belt- you’ll probably demolish or completely refurbish that factory soon anyway

[abstract stirrup]

I’m gonna use a train anyway, I unlocked them after 55 hours of gameplay so seem fair to me to use them

I made good bps for the railway

Just need a station layout for now

[main atlas]

This aint.. right..?

[wind spade]

what's the problem?

[main atlas]

doesnt look proper to me

[wind spade]

why?

[oblique hollow]

you are merging 2 pipes into one, and have 6 generators

[main atlas]

well the coal barely reaches the 6th machine

[main atlas]

yes but thats not a problem right?

[oblique hollow]

you need 270 water not 240

[main atlas]

ah

[wind spade]

how much coal do you have?

[oblique hollow]

and 6 gens need 90 coal total

[main atlas]

120/m

[wind spade]

coal's fine then

[main atlas]

hmm power is stable tho

[oblique hollow]

just wait and let them fill

but you definitely gotta fix the water

[main atlas]

so i'd need one more water

where do i put the pipe in tho..

[oblique hollow]

yes, 30 more water per minute

just merge it

[main atlas]

this doesnt look right to me

[oblique hollow]

put another junction on it and done

pipes can move 300 and 270 is not an issue

[oblique hollow]

it is right and works tho

[main atlas]

but for expanding it wont work i guess lol

[main atlas]

where, anywhere or the center?

[oblique hollow]

put the pipes higher?

[oblique hollow]

anywhere on your pipe lol

you can snap junctions to pipes

[wind spade]

  G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[oblique hollow]

where you merge in that extra 30 water doesnt mater at all

[main atlas]

so i shouldnt connect it to the 2 intakes

oh

[oblique hollow]

why do you think it matters is the better question

because with belts you wouldnt care either

[main atlas]

i guess i should use that layout

[wind spade]

it's one of the possible 3:8 layouts

[main atlas]

8..

i only use 6 rn i suppose

[wind spade]

3 extractors : 8 gens is exactly enough water and uses 120 coal

[oblique hollow]

whether you merge in extra stuff on a belt nesr the middle or the end or the beginning doesnt matter as long as the belt is fast enough

[main atlas]

i see

[tropic beacon]

What does the E mean?

[oblique hollow]

what does matter is when you need to move more water or material than a belt or pipe can handle

[wind spade]

water extractor

[tropic beacon]

Oh extractors nmm

[main atlas]

so 3 extractors for 8 gens

[oblique hollow]

and "2" pipes

[main atlas]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

because 360 water

[main atlas]

well shit, that means i need a lot more space in the air

time to destroy my whole build i guess

[tropic beacon]

You dont though

[main atlas]

i do, i only can place 6 gens in this corner

[tropic beacon]

Oh i see

[main atlas]

sad i dont have the materials for it

whats the recommended space between the coal gens where the pipes and belts run?

[oblique hollow]

around 3 or 4 splitters wide

[wind spade]

enough to fit your pipes and belts 😛

just build two gens and see how do you fit two pipes and a belt between them

see what looks good

[main atlas]

well normally i always did 1 pipe and 1 conveyor but it fucks up so much

[tropic beacon]

You want atleast 3 splitters between them. I usually have 4 for 2 foundations space

[main atlas]

ah ye 2 foundation space

sounds good

[frosty owl]

I just leave half a foundation and b have the piping above the belting. Half a foundation is enough for me to not have anything clip

[main atlas]

hmm how so?

[frosty owl]

I have the belts on the same level as the generators (assuming manifold), so that part is easy. The pipes I usually place at max pole-height or on stackable poles and 4m are enough to snap a pipe from a junction to a pipe input. Since the inputs alternate, the junction on the pipe won't be on top of a splitter for the belt (which is "bad clipping" to me).

[main atlas]

ohh interesting

Do you have a screenshot on how that'd look?

[frosty owl]

Not as I write from my bed 😅
But it's really straight forward. Assuming you line up the generators with a foundation (so the outputs are right between 2 foundations) you just place a splitter in front of the first input (4m of distance, half foundation), place stackable conveyor poles in front and behind the splitter to get the horizontal pipe and then keep adding splitters/pipe junctions wherever needed and connecting them all

You could build the belt and snap the splitters ON it too like with the pipe junctions, too

[main atlas]

hmm... stackable conveyor poles for pipes

sounds useful

like this?

it doesnt snap and i dont think this is logical

decoration-wise this kinda fits

[frosty owl]

Erm... There exist attachments called "stackable pipe poles" (pretty self-explanatory), but they require unlocking :P

A normal (and high) pole can work too

But yeah, the final design is pretty much that: a stack of belt+pipe 4m away from the generators

[main atlas]

i dont have those poles yet 💀

[main atlas]

this works, though

[frosty owl]

I just use normal poles before that.
Since I dont like clipping, this works out fine because I make generators in banks of 4, which only need 2 pipe poles (no pipe-too-long-issue) which don't have to intersect the belts for how I built them

[main atlas]

it seems like it works

conveyors "hold" the pipes now

Should i let each output of the water extractors run it's own pipe or merge 4 e into 2 pipes?

[oblique hollow]

why 4 into 2

[main atlas]

idk, cause pipe?

[oblique hollow]

still makes no sense

why 4

you need 360 water

[main atlas]

well because i'm gonna be needing more than 8 coal plants in the future

[oblique hollow]

thats gonna be a problem for future you

your belt cant support more than 8 right now either

[main atlas]

i have 3 coal nodes

only one is used

[oblique hollow]

in that case: just build 16 generators then

[wind spade]

build in 3:8 modules

[oblique hollow]

why wait for future issues

[wind spade]

don't connect the modules

[main atlas]

yes

thats my planning, thats why im wondering how many pipes should i have

[oblique hollow]

6 extractors 16 generators

have an image of a similar plant

that i built once

[main atlas]

im thinking of 9 pipes here, 3 per plant setup

actually 6 can get out of here

[oblique hollow]

these are 2 coal plants i have

the bottom image can be mirrored for 16 gens

[main atlas]

hmm i see

i just dont have enough space in the water to have it like that

[oblique hollow]

2 water extractors on one end, one at the other end of the pipes

that way you get 360 in "one" pipe

because its from both sides

otherwise you can just overclock the water extractors to save space

the top plant is built in grass fields

[main atlas]

well i got this right now

[oblique hollow]

well thats 6 extractors

so i dont see an issue

connect 2 to one pipe each

[main atlas]

well im still working on extending them lol

how many do i need exactly?

[oblique hollow]

best case, 3 pipes

[main atlas]

well for 16 gens

[oblique hollow]

one pipe has 240 water

240 x 3 is enough for 16 gens

720 total

[main atlas]

alright

i got 9 extractors right now

[oblique hollow]

thats enough for 24 gens then

[main atlas]

better to be safe i suppose

ok so whats a good pipe layout

[oblique hollow]

refer to the image i shared of the plant that can be "mirrored"

thats for 16 gens

2 extractors connect to one end, 2 to the other end, 2 in the middle

[main atlas]

oh okay so one line i suppose

my coal wont reach that tho

do i merge coal mid-belt as well?

[main atlas]

hmm

[oblique hollow]

the belts would need to come from 2 sides

either that or one mk 3 belt with 240 coal

[main atlas]

hmm

yeah i can only place 8 in the area

not 16 unless i put that on the other side

[frosty owl]

Btw (to expand on my prior comment) I build generators in banks of 4 because:

1. its half of the "golden number" of 8 generators, so it scales up nicely.
2. If I overclock it I get the "golden 8"
3. It inputs 60 coal/min, I like that, easy to balance

[main atlas]

yeah i think im gonna go the 4-4 method as well lol

[frosty owl]

It's a bit more "granular" than the entire full-8 setup

[main atlas]

or... i throw in 4 pipes idk

[wind spade]

@snow dove

if items are on IN belt, no items go to OUT belt, and vice versa

color of the arrows - two different types of items

green = mixed red+blue items

OF = overflow

[snow dove]

i have no idea how that works

[wind spade]

if no items are coming through the red belt, the blue production from top produces a full mk2 belt, which goes through the green arrow, green smart splitter filters out red items (none), rightmost smart splitter then splits 60 to sink and 60 to output

if items come through the red belt, the green merger makes 1:1 mix of red and blue items on mk2 belt (60 of each), red items are filtered out and rightmost smart splitter puts everything to sink, since there's only 60 blue items, leaving none for output belt

[snow dove]

OR and XOR gates are my favorite

[wind spade]

(I have no idea if this will actually work with how belts and splitters are sometimes a bit buggy, but at least in theory it should work)

since you can make AND gate (assembler) and OR gate (merger) and NOT gate (this thing), you can make any gate

[snow dove]

that is cool

[frosty owl]

As long as one doesn't chain full belt-segments, it should be fine

[wind spade]

belts basically are the "wires", items on belt = 1, no items on belt = 0

which makes SF turing complete 🙂

[snow dove]

i always thought it was interesting that switches in computers are getting so small, that if they got smaller they’d have issues involving quantum tunneling

[frosty owl]

Afaik, they're already making them so small that they have to account for some such effects. In other words, we're at the point where making them smaller would make the quantum shenanigans uncontrollable

[wind spade]

the two different states of this gate (numbers are items/min on belt)

[snow dove]

oh they also have to deal with the sun trying to sabotage them

basically certain particles the sun produces can flip switches in computers, which the computer just accounts for

[wind spade]

sun wants to play some satisfactory as well

[snow dove]

the sun actually rigged an election one time

a european country (i forget which one, american moment) was trying a new computer based voting system, and one of those particles flipped a bit in the counting system from a 0 to a 1, adding a few hundred thousands votes to a candidate

the sun apparently wanted the candidate to win

[snow dove]

funny that the designers of them have to deal with electrons wanting to be somewhere they shouldn’t

[main atlas]

ok guys i prob need help rn

im gonna use the 6 method, i got 3 E and 6 G, can i use the "overflow" of the 3rd E for the next batch of 6G?

or should i keep them apart

2 on pipe 1 from front, 1 on back

[wind spade]

recommended to do 3E 8G