math-and-meta

[median heath]

Say you lock it to 780 per car.
Your cars needed is still just Desired Total / Throughput per Car

[fierce cypress]

Didn't say it was right for balanced - your equation would still be right, except you'd take the number of cars rounded up to the nearest integer and balance x belts to y carriages

[median heath]

Yeah. I'm just pointing out that part of the wiki needs to be removed/updated.

[fierce cypress]

Was that equation correct before?

[median heath]

Nope 😂

[fierce cypress]

[still brook]

This appears to be working but I just wanted to check
The pipe on the left is 250 water from Al scrap, the water right is 250 water from an extractor
What what I've read doing it like this should cause the the left pipe to be used as the priority, is that correct?

[vapid gorge]

ok that's strike 2

[echo turret]

does overflow work on liquids?

[wind spade]

liquids only work with overflow

balancing doesn't work with liquids

[echo turret]

but if i need 800 and have 900 per min can i just make a line and go out to every blender or do i have to somewhat balance?

[wind spade]

you can just connect everything

just beware of pipe limits

[echo turret]

yea thanks

[deft lichen]

vehicle pages in general are in need of a cleanup, we're aware
most of the stuff there has hardly been updated past update 3

[empty citrus]

How can you fix this? can you just add a second valve on the top and also put it to 150m3/min?

[sharp lion]

Ye, that should fix it

[empty citrus]

alright thank you

[wind spade]

ideally - don't use valves

valve on top with 150m3 would be... problematic I think

[empty citrus]

how would I control flowrate then?

[wind spade]

well the better question is - why would you need that?

just make exactly as much fluid as you need and you don't need to control flowrate at all

[empty citrus]

ohh alright

[tropic hawk]

MuG-F thread

[noble current]

is my math correct, that for diluted packaged fuel bi-product being plastic, it needs 18 refineries, (360m³/min fuel output) or 9 refineries for rubber at the same fuel/min (360m³/min) output?

[fierce cypress]

outputting fuel or packaged fuel?

[noble current]

fuel

[fierce cypress]

because if you output fuel then you just have a closed canister loop

like this

[noble current]

no I was about the rubber/plastic bi-product

my question was, if my math is correct, that 9 rubber refineries equate to 18 plastic refineries

[fierce cypress]

well yes thats correct - rubber produces 2x as much HOR compared to plastic - you need 9 for rubber and therefore 18 for plastic

[tropic hawk]

It's By-product, not bi-product

[fierce cypress]

But the best recipe is HOR - and you refine the resin into rubber/plastic

[noble current]

I mean, SF is a bi-product

[noble current]

huh, you mind showing me that graph? I'm still a bit finicky with satis-tools

[fierce cypress]

this

[noble current]

wtf the difference

[fierce cypress]

and that 90 poly resin you turn into either plastic or rubber

less oil for more fuel

[noble current]

ok I have to think in whole new dimensions with my 2 pure nodes

jesus christ

[fierce cypress]

@noble current you can have a look though this thread from yesterday where i talk about the best recipe paths and things you can do with oil - you can adapt it to your needs and mess around on tools to find something that works for you #1049227137703485490

[noble current]

nice, thanks!

omg - those are like 120 Fuel Gens/Node, which in return are 90,000MW D:

with 2 pure nodes that's already 180,000 MW

[oblique notch]

or just ... dont. Build one now, whatever you have and whatever you can wrap your head around first. Simple fuel production is just fine

when you find that its not enough, then you can go back and build a new factory beside the first, one that takes advantage of more complex recipes

[noble current]

I know, but I am in need of power as well as plastic for further progression, so those production chains really come handy

can't progress with my HMF factory due to the lack of power for example

[oblique notch]

sure. But you will always be in need of more something. Thats the name of the game.

You don't have to go build a 50 fuel gen power plant right now just to finish your HMF factory. You need maybe 2 or 3 fuel generators. Building a small little thing that produces some fuel and some plastic out of just enough refineries to support a few generators is more than good enough.

Sorry, perhaps a little soapboxy tonight - its been bothering me a lot lately that the community very often responds with "You should use this its most efficient" when... that kind of efficiency doesnt matter to someone who doesn't even have the first stage of it set up yet.

Use diluted fuel its better! is not an answer to someone who has never produced fuel before. It also leads to people getting stuck in traps of "Well i cant finish that because I dont have this, and I cant build this because I dont have those...

Minimal Viable Product and iteration would serve people very well to think about in the context of this game sometimes. Don't build something you dont need to yet.

But!!!!

if you want to, go for it.

just dont ever feel obligated that you have to because its more efficient or something. Tuning can come later.

[crystal venture]

is this normal to do

[fierce cypress]

yesn't

[crystal venture]

👀

[tropic hawk]

Is that a 1:12 balancer?

[crystal venture]

balancer?

[tropic hawk]

Load balancer

[crystal venture]

its taking splitting up one conveyor into 16, idk if thats what a load balancer is but it sounds like a good description

[fierce cypress]

its too complex to be 1:12 - unless you've overcomplicated it

[crystal venture]

it will make sure all my constructors are fed at the same rate

[tropic hawk]

Oh, that is a 16

Honestly I would've done a manifold

[crystal venture]

what is a manifold

[fierce cypress]

!wikisearch manifold

[tropic hawk]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[fierce cypress]

[crystal venture]

lol

[tropic hawk]

r/BeatMeToIt

[crystal venture]

but

wouldn't that mean that some are fed slower than others until it fills up

[tropic hawk]

Yep

But after it 'warms up' it runs at the same rate

[fierce cypress]

but once it balances out it functions exactly the same

[crystal venture]

I don't mind using the extra space for the balancer, I have a ridiculous amount of empty space to utilize

[tropic hawk]

I personally think the extra time to set up that could've been more than the time for the manifold to warm up

[crystal venture]

but the wait time is only applied once, while its made

warming up a manifold might have to be done multiple times, whenever supply gets cut off if you are switching things around

[fierce cypress]

no

warmup happens once

and build time is less

[crystal venture]

unless supply gets cut off

[fierce cypress]

why would that happen?

[crystal venture]

if you are redesigning anything or if supplies are being brought by train and you designed it badly

idk

[fierce cypress]

well it should never stop flowing

[crystal venture]

it just seems pointless to worry about it regardless since either way its only a small amount of extra time

[fierce cypress]

yea

[oblique notch]

if its 1:16 its a 1:16 splitter, not a load balancer... load balancer would be like 3:2 or 2:2 or something (balancing the load between multiple belts so each belt has the same... is balanced 🙂 )

[oblique notch]

issue with perfect splits as opposed to a manifold is that if your supply doesnt get cut off but starts to be less or more your perfect splits stop working. Manifolds work regardless, no matter how many is coming down the belt if its more or less. If your perfect split relies on it being exactly 270 down the belt and for a little one one machien accidently gets cut off the electric and your only getting 265 - all your machines passed the perfect split start to suffer efficiency, as opposed to a manifold wehre only the last one or two would.

that being said - do as you please. Im doing perfect splits this world because its fun to challenge myself. So do as thou wilt

[vapid gorge]

if you redesign a load balanced system then you have to spend all the extra time building the load balancer and building everything also. Not a good argument

[small kayak]

Why 'warm up' or prefill a manifold anyway? The time it's going to take to fetch the needed resources and stuff the machines with that is better spent building the next factory.

Maybe if it's the first machine to spit out a new item that is needed for the next factory that one absolutely need ASAP... But for anything else just give it some time and it will sort itself out

[crystal venture]

why would perfect split stop working if its got extra

it just wouldn't be able to use it, same as a manifold

although that does make sense about lost efficiency across all the machines

I'll have to be very careful about making sure everything is working correctly

[thick plank]

Basically because the time that it takes for a factory to reach peak efficiency (with manifolds) is the time where every buffer is full, aka every machiene only takes the needed resources from the main belt. If your machienes are already producing, thisll take far longer to achieve, meaning that it can take hours for your fabrication line to actually work as intended

[vapid gorge]

I mean... you'll probably be building something else by then, or doing aesthetic work on the factory as it warms up

[thick plank]

I never do aesthetic work on my factories. They are such a mess of spaghetti, i cant stand looking at them after i build them. I have a factory that took me a month to build, 5.8k wires, 6.2K cables, 4K sheets/ min. I cant stand connecting it up to a storage unit cause irs so ugly

[crystal venture]

wait why did that take a month to build

[small kayak]

If a factory using manifolds takes hours to be running at peak it will also take ages to prefill. That time is IMO better spent building the next factory

But to each their own. If you have fun with the way you play so be it 👍

[crystal venture]

nvm

[thick plank]

Cause im lazy and not that smart

And its a mess of belts

[thick plank]

It wont take that long to prefil,

[crystal venture]

there is nothing more annoying than the max parts per minute via conveyor is not divisible by the output of something you are creating

[thick plank]

I mean, thats not that bad

[crystal venture]

this recipe is going to produce 45 plates per minute, which means I'll need 10.667 assemblers to output 480 per minute

I'll probably mess with clock speed but its still annoying

[thick plank]

Just build 10. I mean, dont let conceyros govern your production

You shouldnt try building x ammounts of conveyors full

[crystal venture]

why not

[thick plank]

Cause then you run into these problems

[crystal venture]

oo

480 is divisible by the item consumed the fastest in the recipe

I'll base it off that and combine the outputs later

[thick plank]

Why dont you just base it off your mines?

[crystal venture]

I am now

[thick plank]

Like, honestly, base it off the needed resources. Makes everything easier

[crystal venture]

I have 6 conveyors supplying 480 steel per minute

I'll use one of them for metal plates

time to make 64 assemblers instead of 10.667

[thick plank]

Ok. What i meant was „i have 2 iron mines, that makes 120 iron/min. With that i can supply x ammounts of buildings“

[crystal venture]

but it changes per recipe and I need to make a wide array of things with steel

so I am limiting myself at one full conveyor for each

[thick plank]

Ah i see

Now i understand what your talking about

Yeah, in that specific case basing it of the conveyor ammount from steel is fine

I thought you where talking about a full independent production line

[crystal venture]

oh

[fierce ruin]

yall talkin in a different language i dont know

[crystal venture]

oh good assemblers only need 8 meters distance vertically

I can easily build a 4 story building for this

[fierce cypress]

they need 12 if you don't want the indicator light sticking through

[crystal venture]

I do not care about what it looks like inside

I'll cover it with fancy walls so that it looks like I put effort into it

oh the irony, I'm almost out of the material I need to build the thing that makes the material I need

wait nvm I found several stacks

[still brook]

This is how you do priority input for an aluminum line right?

(because it doesn't appear to be working)

[fierce cypress]

that is not a VIP no

i always use separate recycled systems

[vast jungle]

I would try not to merge liquids from different sources of possible

[still brook]

is the other junction required to make it work?

[small kayak]

VIP is working good if built right

[vast jungle]

Mixing two water extractors is fine, mixing a water extractors and a refinery outpouring water is tricky

[fierce cypress]

afaik it has to be set-up identically to the image

[fierce cypress]

^^ but yea, i do this

[vast jungle]

It's not impossible, but error prone 😉

[still brook]

Yeah I tried to feed the water into a second set of refineries but the math gets awful

and also I was getting a cascade of blockages

[vast jungle]

Just split the refinery in two by underclocking

[fierce cypress]

the math is fine

are you doing sloppy > default scrap?

[still brook]

yee

Running them both at 208.333% though

[fierce cypress]

60% of sloppy refs run on by-product
40% of sloppy refs run on fresh water

[still brook]

hmm

awh man

so much more space to do it that way

[small kayak]

Not mine, forgot who posted this.

[fierce cypress]

why smart splitter?

[crystal venture]

overflow

[fierce cypress]

but why?

just split it

[small kayak]

To make shure the recycling is prioritised

[fierce cypress]

i dont know if that would work

i think you could still get fluid lock

[small kayak]

How?

[fierce cypress]

i always just do this

[fierce cypress]

because you're prioritising with solids, not the liquids

[small kayak]

The setup require a bit of math regarding the amounts of refineries, but the setup works so far in my world

[fierce cypress]

eh math is math, theres no really complex math in this game

[still brook]

looks like this is working

[fierce cypress]

ofc it does its just maths

[still brook]

I think it doubles the amount of my first layer of refineries which is a bit lame

but the up side is that it works sooo

hmmm actually, might be able to pair them up 2-2

yeah ok so
Sloppy @ 250% (600 Solution) + Sloppy @ 166.6 (400 solution) -> 2x scrap@208.33% looks like it might work

ok nah not working, something broken about the Al Solution causes it to stall

[vast jungle]

maybe split it into smaller chunks... so that you don't have full MK2 pipes

[frosty owl]

So the system is still priority-based but hinging on solids instead of fluids. No water-mixing, just making sure that the "water-producing" part of the system is always fed bauxite first (note that the solution is shared between all scrap refineries).
I believe this specific design was by @thorn bane, @ them for details

[prime orchid]

you can't prioritize inputs like that to a single output, as far as i know (maybe limit flow on the non-priority input?). gravity operated priority is for a single input going to multiple outputs. i think your best option with multiple inputs it to inject the excess fluid in somewhere else and use a valve and possibly a gravity operated overflow valve to stop backflow where the last bit of fluid from the priority line would run out

if the amounts are balanced though there shouldn't be too much to worry about

you can just feed each line from opposite sides and use valves around the input of the odd machine where the fluids meet

[frosty owl]

You can prioritize fluids' inputs, regardless of number of outputs. The system used for it is called "Variable Input Priority (VIP) valve/junction" and is described in the piping manual.

[midnight wolf]

Hello, I have a new math problem for you pioneers, hope you can help me out with it, in this run I'm trying to use trains more intensively, the issue comes here:

-My Pure Ore Ingots Forge is located at the sea (because I need water and I thought it was better to move solid resources rather than liquid ones due to the container size on trains), and needs 1 full MK5 belt, now, since the travel distance is a little bit longer, the train speed cannot keep up with the required input of my Pure Ore Ingot Forge (780 Ore/min), and thus the train deposit will empty prior the train arrive to the destination to fill it again. I thought adding a second train could actually fix the problem, but I'm open to other ideas! I mainly suck with trains but damn they look really satisfying and give a sense of life in the game

[frosty owl]

You need to add another train serving the same stations. The travel time seems too big for the throughput to be sustained by a single freight car every X minutes as you're trying to do.

In other words (and more generically): if items pile up at the loading, you either need more trains or to distribute the load between more freight stations

[midnight wolf]

Exactly what is happening to me! The loading is indeed always full, while the unloading depletes itself so quickly that the production stops and needs the train to arrive again at the same station

Perfect then, I will add a second train, thank you

[oblique notch]

also consider that, with only a very very few exceptions, most recipes make less parts than the number of parts put into the recipe. So the more you can make in the same location before shipping it all over the map, the less you'll need to ship

Ingots being one the primary opposites there, especially with Pure recipes improving your ore:ingot ratio. Converting those ingots into something and shipping that instead will reduce your overall load size

(except screws. f screws.)

[hexed crater]

@deft lichen Hello. Are you the same person as 'Ondar111' from the wiki? If so noticed that you edited the wiki last year to say that the freight platform loading animation is 27.08 seconds. I was wondering how you came up with this number.

[wind spade]

iirc it was due to testing/data mining

it's generally known in the community though, I don't think Ondar came up with it, he just edited it based on what is considered "true"

[hexed crater]

Ah okay thanks. The wiki pages for the trains station and the freight platform say 25 but I did a quick test with the timer on my watch and it's definitely around 27. I'm not sure if it used to be 25 in a previous update? Anyway 27.08 struck me as oddly specific so I was wondering where it came from.

[wind spade]

iirc it was either always 27.08 and people just guessed or they changed animation at some point and made it 27.08. In both cases, feel free to edit all occurences of 25 to 27.08

[deft lichen]

I am, yes, but I don't recall that it was me who changed the number to 27.08

[hexed crater]

I present comparison of the '16:36, 24 November 2021‎' and ' 21:46, 23 November 2021‎' of the 'Electric_Locomotive' page as evidence.
https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Electric_Locomotive?type=revision&diff=41465&oldid=41391
It was a while ago though.
Twas it you who performed said testing or were you indeed just updating the record with the general knowledge as suggested?

[vivid garden]

Hi, i am starting to design a megafactory. Since its my first playthorought and i already went throught spagetti stage to get to tier 6, i wonder if there is a good cheatsheet to plan my megafactory in advance.
My question is, what to produce in the smaller bases, whats gonna be needed for the mega base?

Is there a up to date cheatsheet to see what kind of stuff i gonna need for t8 and beyond?

[cinder silo]

Satisfactory tools is your best bet for plan, but structure wise and how to organise the build past that I'm unsure.

[cobalt meteor]

is this a b2b fix?

[cinder silo]

b2b is massively improved, it is still imperfect but the vast majority of players won't see issues now.

[cobalt meteor]

oh sweet

[cinder silo]

Check out #1006573529183027401 to see all the experiments and eventual results 🙂

A few of us tested the game engine to near destruction.

[wind spade]

best advice is to not build a megabase

build separate factories

[vivid garden]

yes i do

but i neet to know what resources i need for main base

[wind spade]

either you have a final goal from the beginning, or you can't know that

in the case when you don't have final goal from start, just build what you need now, and don't worry about future needs

[vivid garden]

I would like to know what kind of materials comes next and what type of stuff i need for it aproximatly

for example, i didnt even knew that those resources exists

[wind spade]

approximately depends on how much of those future materials will you make

[cinder silo]

Tools will tell you that, but you still need to design the base it goes in.

[wind spade]

that's why I said, don't worry about future, worry about now

[cinder silo]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ZY7eShQ3xDtsIfDVtihQ this is my very basic SE plan on tools, it'll eventually do that phase 4.

[wind spade]

you don't need to know that in advance though. You can just build new factory for them when you unlock them

[vivid garden]

i want to know in advance!

i am setting up those small factories, but i have to know if i need cables or wires from it

[wind spade]

or you just make cable or wire as you need

instead of pre-building it

[vivid garden]

this is just one example. @cinder silo thank you 🙂

i played factorio before, preplaning is possible

[wind spade]

it is, but if you know your final goal

[vivid garden]

yes i do, do stuff for space elevator ofc

[wind spade]

if you'd ask "how much iron I need in factorio", I'd ask you "how much SPM are you aiming for?"

[vivid garden]

is there such a list somewhere, but up to date? it is missing resources

[wind spade]

I think that infographics is outdated

[vivid garden]

yes

[wind spade]

check the website Taromani linked, it has codex

[vivid garden]

thats what i am looking for, taromani has already a good tool send me, but hoped for a more broader picture so to speak

[vivid garden]

oh nice

[wind spade]

such infographics are useless since alt recipes exist 🙂

[frosty owl]

||I love how you word as if it to try not make it look like it's self-promo ||

[vivid garden]

still miss a overview like image above, or have i missed it?

[odd spire]

whats b2b mean

[wind spade]

it's not that, it's just if I say "check my website", not many new people know it's mine 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

as I said

such infographics are useless since alt recipes exist
so it can't realistically be done

[frosty owl]

It stands for "belt to belt" and refers to an issue with belts struggling to deliver max throughput through belt-belt connections

[cinder silo]

Belt to belt, there was a major issue with items moving on very long multi section belts that caused backlogs in throughput.

[vivid garden]

i need one for vanilla recipies

ill mess with alt later

[frosty owl]

I know, just joking around~ <3

[wind spade]

alts completely change resources you need though

[vivid garden]

for space stuff, it seems like it does

[wind spade]

so if you want to plan for endgame, you better decide on alts now

[vivid garden]

but would be good to know in advance, what kind of resources i gonna need in the future. should i combine nails and screws into reinfoced plate or better keep them separated since its gonna be a requirenment for a later tec to build (space elevator)

Thats my specific need and question XD

[wind spade]

again - either you have endgame plan, in which case you can just put your plan into tools and it will tell you everything
or you don't have endgame plan and then you shouldn't "plan for future", but just for now

[vivid garden]

Is there such image as above, but updated - just that pls

[wind spade]

no

you can kinda get it if you put things in tools

[cinder silo]

If you know what your target is, tools is bloody fantastic, it can only crunch the numbers you have in mind, the website is not able to read thoughts and do if-maybe.

[wind spade]

for example, if you want heavy modular frames, put that into tool, it spits out the schema for it (including building counts):

[vivid garden]

yes yes, its a nice helminth tool ^^

[vapid gorge]

are you wanting the resources you need for the end end or just getting through unlocking the tiers

[vivid garden]

a broad overview from t1 to t8. Item x need item y to build and so on. Specially for the space elevator.

[wind spade]

did you try using the tools you've been linked?

[vapid gorge]

Eh look - if you're ok with just smashing together parts as needed and not worried about efficiency 1 pure node or 2 normal nodes dedicated to each basic part seems to make things at reasonable speed? Keep buffers of containers so you have thousands of parts on hand when you unlock new parts that way you can make space parts temporarily

but that's just the way I work through the tiers

[vivid garden]

I have already done that. But now i am building external small bases and i would like to know what i need

[vapid gorge]

oh well only you can decide that

[wind spade]

you can use tools for that as well 🙂

[vivid garden]

e.g. i am dedicating one base only for screws. base 2 for reinfoced plates

i didnt knew that wires were still needed in stage 8

[wind spade]

well you have your final plan in tools, so just check how many screws it needs and build that much

[vapid gorge]

lower tier parts are often needed throughout the production lines , especially depending on what recipes you use.

[vivid garden]

yes i noticed. thats why i was looking for a visual image, but apparently there is none up to date

[vapid gorge]

well there's nearly infinite different ways you can go about it because there's hundreds of recipes

[wind spade]

there can't really be visual image if each item has 2-3 different ways to make it

[vivid garden]

yes, but for starters, as i am, vanilla would have been enough

[wind spade]

if you plan final base, you don't plan with vanilla recipes tho 😛

[vapid gorge]

Yeah you probably aught to use whatever recipes are convenient for how you like to build and where you want to put factories down

but if you really don't want to think about it, using greeny's tool, you can do this I guess? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=WwgUcwysAxLnnJ1JeeqJ

[vivid garden]

i dont plan to run around map harddriving, more want to finish this game

[vapid gorge]

This is a sandbox xD you create your own goals

[vivid garden]

yes, i know this tool and i am familliar with it, since its like helmnith or kirkmcdonalds stuff

i am already using, tho the overview would have saved me a lot of time

by now i looked it up myself

[vapid gorge]

Yes but if you click the link i created a plan for you for the end game parts using basic recipes

[vivid garden]

oh

i see, phpstuff is attached to link, sorry i overlooked

[vapid gorge]

But honestly, if your only goal is to unlock all the tiers and 'finish' you're missing like 95% of the game

[vivid garden]

if y want, y can join in and show me what i missed XD

[vapid gorge]

what do you mean?

[vivid garden]

if you want to show me some special setup like itemsorter or super fast hypertubes, perhaps there is more?

[vapid gorge]

oh there's a million things you can do, and if you want I can help look through youtube and stuff as examples? There's also lots of images of things people do in #screenshots and #design-and-architecture

But this is largely a sandbox game like.... minecraft? I guess?

You have to decide what your goals are

[vivid garden]

i see

[vapid gorge]

Maybe you just want the biggest power station you can make.

Or make 60 nuclear pasta a minute

I decided I wanted to make very local factories.
Which means I had to pick alt recipes and locations on the map that were ultra specific

Oh also to build it in circles.

Have you played sandbox games before?

[vivid garden]

I want to play through the game, see some exploits, min-max stuff, couple of bp and the move back to factorio space exploration mod

[vapid gorge]

Ah well
There really aren't any exploits

you can absolutely min max stuff - but that means you have to make a choice about what you're min maxing and how you're doing it (often using alt recipes)

[vivid garden]

there are exploits

[vapid gorge]

Blueprints seem cool? I haven't used them.

[vapid gorge]

like?

[vapid gorge]

Ah nah, those are mechanics in the game and work as made. Not as intended but as made.

pretty grey zone

[vivid garden]

i like your attitude, but still its technically an exploit XD

[vapid gorge]

and getting to the other side of the map doesn't really change the mechanics or gameplay

I mean... maybe? but all it does is save you some travel time. Which isn't the main point of hte game

[magic island]

biggest recent exploit was when you could make blueprints of geothermal generators and get tons of free power at no resource cost. but that's been patched

[vapid gorge]

You can also clip through the terrain and make underground tunnels I guess?

[vivid garden]

i still have to find a way to dupe items...

sadly there are no dokeys in the game 😂

[vapid gorge]

was that a mine craft dupe thing?

[vivid garden]

yes

think got fixed tho

[vapid gorge]

been literally a decade since I played xD

[vivid garden]

same

[vapid gorge]

The only duping I've heard about is sometimes splitters will pop out an extra item but you can't control it

[vivid garden]

speaking of not intended mechanics. are there more?

is it still in the game?

[vapid gorge]

... not that I can think of?

[vapid gorge]

yes

[vivid garden]

ok, time to have a look at that bp stuff

lets see if item duping works XD

[vapid gorge]

are you trying to find exploits with BPs? Or just fun using them?

ah.

[vivid garden]

bp is for me a must have as factorio veteran, lucky that i started now playing

[vapid gorge]

Look if what you love is finding bugs in games? Go for it. BPs are new and more likely to have issues like the Geo one mentioned above
Though in Satisfactory item duping... isn't really amazing? Resource nodes are infinite. There are in fact very few items that you can't get as many as yo ucould possibly want of xD

[vivid garden]

there are some rare/limited items

[wind spade]

there's exactly 3 items that aren't infinite. Two of them have literally no use (artifacts) and one is hard drive which is only needed in limited amount anyway (and there's more than you need)

[vapid gorge]

some plants - but you can start a doggo farm for slugs if that's what you really want

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah and doggos just pop out items for you

[magic island]

it's really a game of rates rather than quantities, so getting extra of an item doesn't have huge value

any dupe exploit would still have to be weighed by the effort it takes to dupe vs handcraft vs automate the item

[vapid gorge]

I think there's a big difference between Factorio and Satisfactory

Factorio you're fighting the world with limited resources

Satisfactory is almost entirely about designing systems and logistics and problem solving

Almost all the problems you'll be solving are goals you've set for yourself.

so even though it's about automation and making stuff like Factorio it's probably more similar to Minecraft (without limited resources like Diamond ect)

[vivid garden]

Factorio you're fighting the world with limited resources
-> space exploration?

[wind spade]

well we're obviously talking vanilla

but even space exploration has technically limited resources

[vapid gorge]

I guess? I only dipped into factorio a bit and spoken to people.

One of my biggest challenges recently? I'm big on design and looks and it took me hours to make this look right xD

[vivid garden]

Water is endless, and the patience to keep expanding on the map

[vapid gorge]

many different pipes and belts going in and out of 2 junctions to other spaces. Needed to make a layout where it didn't clip (much) and look good. A lot harder than it looks

[wind spade]

again, we're talking vanilla

[vapid gorge]

You hit a death zone off map eventually.

Also the number of objects on the map will slow your game down eventually

[wind spade]

(and iirc SE has limited-size planets)

[cinder silo]

I've learned that on my save.

[vivid garden]

how long would i take to mine everything? livelong?

[vapid gorge]

just miners? not long.

but.. that's just ploping miners on things.

they'll run forever if you sink the ores and have power

[vivid garden]

same as statisfactory so to speak

[wind spade]

but SF has infinite nodes

[vapid gorge]

An example of personal goal setting @vivid garden https://www.satisfactorytips.com/guides/five-x-five-challenge-rules

[wind spade]

you don't ever have to move your miners

[vivid garden]

thats a self set challenge. finishing se is a challenge on itself XD

[vapid gorge]

SE?

you just mean the final space parts ?

[wind spade]

space exploration

they are talking about factorio

[vapid gorge]

ah right

[vivid garden]

if moved already away from vanilla, i was comparing se to sf

[wind spade]

still is different

[vapid gorge]

Well from what I've seen in vids even when they implement the story element of satisfactory it'll mostly still just be sandbox

might not be what you're looking for

[vivid garden]

yes it is

oh, those good dammed orbs

clogging up chests

[vapid gorge]

Don't collect them 😛

[vivid garden]

there is a inner voice telling me to do so, it wont shut up XD

[vapid gorge]

if it's repeating every couple seconds save and reload. Random bug that can happen

[vivid garden]

worse i am building nearby

[vapid gorge]

ah yeah, just have a container near your hub for the non automation items, like plants ect

[vivid garden]

if already beyond that, have an intem sorter XD

[oblique notch]

they are nothing like factorios BPs

just so you are aware. Completely different animals.

[vivid garden]

yes yes

[oblique notch]

yes yes. very good. (Stin Archi is my fav, and his yes yes very good line is the best.)

[vivid garden]

skaven vibes yes yes

[short yoke]

is there any ratio for uranium powered reactor to plutonium powered reactors, since plutonium needs uranium nuclear waste

[wind spade]

depends on recipes

[vapid gorge]

coming back from playing vermintide xD

[vivid garden]

more of a mappainter, so wh3 it is,

but you?

[vapid gorge]

nah, not wargaming for me. Sometimes ttrpg? Few of the comp games with warhammer are any good

[vivid garden]

wh3 = total war warhammer 3

[vapid gorge]

can't stand the total wh series

or the total war series tbh

[mellow needle]

really? why?

[vapid gorge]

Just real boring. If I want a rts I'll play stellaris

[mellow needle]

Oh gotcha, I agree for the most part. I thought you were also referencing the lore as well which I have been doing a deep dive on and its really cool

but I agree sterllaris is awesome

also does anyone have any tips for building vertically? Most of my attempts have felt clucky and overall more complicated and equally if not less so efficient

[vapid gorge]

oh the setting is great for both 40k and reg xD

[vapid gorge]

do you have the hover pack yet?

[mellow needle]

no, I am working through HUB upgrade 4 right now. After updating my factories to make more complicated parts

[vapid gorge]

Ah so functional clunky not appearance ?

[vivid garden]

what is the difference between paradox mappainter games and total war mappainter games?

none, you end up always painting the map with [insert your faction name here] 😂

[vapid gorge]

right so swarming armies you mean? xD

[vapid gorge]

yea hdidn't think so, mind if I dm you a link?

[mellow needle]

mostly appearance

[vapid gorge]

OH. Appearance. Wait until you get teh hover pack

[mellow needle]

gotcha

[vapid gorge]

but the ideas in the link can help too?

[mellow needle]

yeah thats cool

[short yoke]

I made a planning for my endgame, im building a mall, 500 battery/min to power drones and 40 ADS, 40 MFG, 10 Nuclear Paste and 10 Thermal Rockets/min . This is the % of resource in the map taken by each factory. With the numbers of machines required and power used. Is that good enough? Is that too much? I don't know if im going overboard and crazy or are those numbers normal? Im quite overwhelmed by my math

[wind spade]

after last space elevator package there's not much more unlocking you have to do, so you're basically left to "do what you want". so it's up to you if you find this reasonable amount or not 🙂

[thorn bane]

#math-and-meta message
i just manually timed it and somehow everyone trusted that number xD
its definitely not 100% precise, it was just me pressing start and stop on a stop watch when i saw the train moving

[crystal venture]

I've heard that its best not to mix items on freight cars, and that makes sense when transporting large quantities of items, but with smaller quantities of advanced pieces it would be smarter to mix them into one or two freight cars and sort them later right?

[ember fractal]

I have a 2 cart train that re-supplies my storage mall with building materials. It carries a mix of like 20 different items. Then, on arrival, a sushi belt runs through a bunch of smart splitters to sort the items into containers.

[vapid gorge]

You can but it requires a complex sorter and a sink system

[crystal venture]

whatever

It would be harder to build multiple trains just to carry the various items at this stage

[vapid gorge]

Why not just different cars?

[lethal arch]

Hi, hope this is the right place to ask for help.

I'm building my power infrastructure right now but am a bit lost about some math.
I am producing 1200 turbofuel/m so 2x600 pipes. I am using shards to overclock the generators which means I have to place 132 generators.

I'm splitting generators to 66 per 600 pipe. But this means I need to underclock one generator to have 100% efficiency. I've tried google and the wiki to figure out the percentage but I'm honestly lost.
As far as I understand I can power 65 generators with 592.15 turbofuel (per the wiki if fully overclocked the generators takes 9.11 turbofuel). This leaves me with 7.85 turbofuel left for one generator. But I can't figure out how I need to clock the last generator to use that specific amount of turbofuel. Can a kind soul help me out? 🙂

[vapid gorge]

divide the fuel you have left by how much per minute a generator usually uses?

[lethal arch]

Thanks for the answer, but I don't understand. I'm not very good at math, which makes this game very challenging for me, but also helps me get better at it. I'm probably overlooking something incredibly simple aren't I? Can you lay out the math for me? 😅

[fierce cypress]

since the U7 overclocking changes - 66 gens at 200% clockspeed should just consume 9 turbofuel/min each - or 594/min total

[vapid gorge]

what Tomato said - but also unless you're cheating your way to having a bunch more shards thats a huge number of shards you're using for that

[lethal arch]

Ah, perhaps this makes it easier for me, still lost, but I'll try and figure it out.

Yeah I've cheated in the shards to make my life easier, I'm not a big fan of collecting snails and fighting mobs. (U7 is a blessing for making me able to make the mobs passive)

[lethal arch]

Thanks, that makes it hopefully a bit easier.

[fierce cypress]

a 600 pipe of turbofuel can support:

133.3... gens @ 100% OC (0 shards)
88.8... gens @ 150% OC (88.8... shards)
66.6... with 200% OC (133.3... shards)
53.3... with 250% OC (160 shards)

@lethal arch ^^

why did i subconsciously go from using '@' to 'with' lol

[lethal arch]

Thank you so much for that! I feel stupid not having seen that.
Just to make completely sure, just so that I understand, can you confirm that if I do 200% overclock, I have to build 66 generators @ 200% and 1 @ 60%. I feel so stupid right now haha.

[fierce cypress]

66 at 200%, one at 0.6666... * 200 which is 133.3333%

[lethal arch]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-gif-24451161

Right, I see.
You helped me out a lot here, I am lost for words at how I'm not able to deduce these numbers myself. I am thankful af for your kind help though!

[fierce cypress]

yw its what this channel is here for

[hexed crater]

Ah okay thanks for letting me know. The mystery is solved...
For now...

[deft lichen]

not only do I have no memory of that, I actually thought that number was pretty strange, seeing it on the wiki
finding out that it's just somebody's imprecise measurement... bruh

[frosty owl]

Imagine not knowing your own sources

[deft lichen]

changed to 25 until further testing is made

[hexed crater]

One could maybe make a recording of a belt going into/out of a train station with fraps or bandicam or something like that and then find the frames where the belt starts/stops.

Might have a go when I get home.

[oblique hollow]

i though Sev said its exactly 27.08 seconds

[oblique notch]

Since power is kinda delicate, I would just leave that one extra underclocked machine off and be a little over in your production than your consumption. It won't give you that much more power but will save you lots of fluid headaches

[hexed crater]

Possibly silly question I only started playing like a month or so ago: Is 'Sev' one of the developers?

[snow dove]

sevrahn is just a normal player who is super fucking helpful 24/7

[oblique hollow]

no, just a normal player

[hexed crater]

Is he on the discord? I suppose we could @ him and ask? But as I understand from the discussion so far @thorn bane seems to be taking credit for the 27.08 number?

I saw your fluid guide btw nice job.

[oblique notch]

Sev will be around eventually and answer. He... well you cant get rid of him.

[deft lichen]

@median heath where did you get the freight platform loading duration from?

[oblique notch]

or you can do a search, as painful as discord search is. He's said it before

[median heath]

Recording and counting frames. 😦

[deft lichen]

So it 100% certainly is 27.08s?

[cinder silo]

@median heath 👋

[median heath]

99.99% Certain because the only thing that would change my mind is a dev saying "Hey, the legit time according to what we coded is actually X"

But I'm fairly certain it isn't a specifically chosen value, it's just the animation time - so someone would have to go into the animation codey bits and find it there.

[median heath]

Studying for finals, what's up?

[deft lichen]

Modding folks would know where to look for that but my questions there got ignored multiple times

It'd be great if the check could be ran again, I could give it a try myself

[hexed crater]

@median heath did you see the rest of my posts in our disagreement about if locomotives consume power at idle and if train stations ever consume more than 0.1 MW. I'm still pretty sure I'm right

[cinder silo]

Doing good at the moment, the belt issues got a huge review after some destructive tests so we can go more ham on throughput these days 👍

[median heath]

I stopped caring. I have finals.
IRL > Video game.

Also stopped caring because "If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong."

[deft lichen]

I mean that should be very easy to test

[hexed crater]

Which is what I have been doing... only to be met with a fairly dismissive response so far. 😞

It's not about 'playing the game right or wrong'. It's about weather or not the mechanics of the game actually work as stated in the UI.
I agree the reson that this probably has gone mostly unnoticed is that people have so much power it doesn't make any difference.

If you're willing to record and count frames you obviously care about the small details.

[deft lichen]

am I missing something? power consumption can be checked simply by connecting a station to a single biomass burner, then reading the power graph

if the grid trips, then it's consuming over 30 MW and thus likely the listed 50 MW, not 0.1 MW

[median heath]

If I remember correctly what there were proving is that stations don't consume the listed 50 MW.

I'm off to test though. ✌️

[deft lichen]

best of luck

[frosty owl]

||#rules be like: Hold my beer ||

[deft lichen]

I updated the clock speed wiki page, trying to make it as neutral over overclocking and underclocking as possible

[...] For matching production and consumption rates, both overclocking and underclocking is viable. It is up to you to decide whether to overclock using Power Shards, saving a little space and using a little extra power, or do the opposite by underclocking, which does not require Power Shards.

[hexed crater]

Yes this was basically my methodology. If you care to review there's a brief discussion in #satisfactory #satisfactory message

before the discussion moves to this channel.
#math-and-meta message

As I say I've not been playing for that long so I might have missed something and was hoping someone would check my work as it were.

[deft lichen]

I see

might look into this eventually, pretty interesting

[hexed crater]

lol that's putting it diplomatically...
What could be more fun than this? 😆

It might have some implications e.g. I'm not sure why you'd want to, but you could potentially make some sort of setup where let's say you want to load/unload x freight wagons you could do something like put x stations in a row with one freight platform where the train rolls forward incrementally and load/unloads each wagon from the same platform one at a time.

Not so good if you have to pay 50 MW for each station.

[oblique hollow]

i kinda doubt that would work though

or even be efficient

[hexed crater]

I works I checked. But yeah I agree I dunno how useful it would be.

On an unrelated note does anyone know if there's some utility/api type thing I could use to get the terrain elevation from x,y coordinates, or if there's already a map/csv file or something like that already out there?

[oblique hollow]

the interactive map already gives you altitude

[hexed crater]

the "satisfactory calculator" website?

I'm seeing Coordinates and Biome below the map for where my mouse it hovered, but I don't see an altitude.

Ahh I see that points of interest; hard drives, resource nodes e.t.c. have their altitudes listed,
but that's not quite what I was after.

[fierce ruin]

how many modular frames/min is optimal in tier 3/4?

[wind spade]

depends how many you use for building on average

that many is optimal then 😛

[median heath]

Sev is going to be in Valheim for the foreseeable future.

So ping if needed about maths, train throughput, sushi manifolds, trucks being good, train signalling, etc. 😉

[median heath]

45 🙃

[median heath]

New approach where I just tell people how many I personally build and when they go WHAAAAA I explain how optimal is relative to the user 😁

[snow dove]

any number between .001 and 1981.98 is optimal

[tropic hawk]

So question I wanted to ask. When I was making a multi-output factory, using the 45-81 rule, the outputs were those numbers, but the machine's clock speeds were all wonky, with some at 1/7 speed and such. I thought the rule was supposed to make it a clean number that would match the cycle, or was I misunderstanding it?

[tropic hawk]

Out of curiosity, where did the upper bounds for that come from?

[oblique hollow]

possibly the maximum number of frames possible

[median heath]

Send me the factory outline?

[tropic hawk]

https://beta.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=898LaTAGy4G9KROGG50L

[median heath]

I can fix this, but do you have to use Flexible Frames? 😦

[tropic hawk]

dang, maybe that is it, I thought I removed all the idiotic plastic/rubber recipes

[median heath]

Yeah, just taking that off cleans it up considerably.

[tropic hawk]

that cleared up a lot, now im just making 53 1/3 iron wire and Pure iron ingots (which don't apply to the rule)

[median heath]

👍

[oblique notch]

ok.... this i can get behind.

cause... yeah. Whatever you f in well want seems appropriate response to me

[oblique notch]

They aren't idiotic once you move to Uranium and dont need all that oil for fuel anymore.

buuut. every thing is situational.

[median heath]

Heavy Flexible needs a buff imo

[versed violet]

Is there a checklist for updating factories to U7?
Power gens now overclock linear = 250%oc is now 250% power (and fuel usage), so need to turn down everything that was 250% to 200%
Nuke gens now use 240 water instead of 300
more?

[median heath]

That's about it.

[versed violet]

Oh, no, I feel guilty.
The split 3x300 into 4x180 rate-limiter contraption I suggested ended up on community highlights 🤣

[median heath]

Sushi manifolds will never end up on highlights 😭

[versed violet]

its a japan thing, not understood in wider world

[median heath]

?

💡

[fierce ruin]

ok

thx

i mean i was fr just asking how many i needed for building stuff and milestones and stuff, but sure u can be completely useless if u like

yknow before i needed it to make computers and stupid stuff like that

[median heath]

You were "fr asking" how many you need for building stuff and milestones --- milestones is a set amount, so asking how many "per/min" is a useless question.
For building stuff --- none of us know what scale you're planning to build at in that tier, so any per/min amount given is also useless because the accurate answer is "however many you want to."

Also no, Modular Frames are never used in making Computers.

[vapid gorge]

for only milsstones? You can kinda skip having to make tons by having large containers filled with them to start new production lines with and make unlock / space parts quickly

[fierce ruin]

i prefer automation thanks

[fierce ruin]

i was just generalizing complex machinery

dont gotta go sicko mode all over me

[median heath]

Ah yes, the "I get to call you completely useless but you're not allowed to reply"
Classic 👍

[fierce ruin]

u were being completely useless tho ngl

[wind spade]

you can't really generalise "how much do I need" in this game

[fierce ruin]

ok go on

[median heath]

none of us know what scale you're planning to build at in that tier, so any per/min amount given is also useless because the accurate answer is "however many you want to."

That's what he means.

[fierce ruin]

i mean fr u kinda tryin to be a lil toxic here so

[median heath]

How?

[wind spade]

no, he's just saving me from having to reply on already answered question

if you don't know how much you want to produce, you can't know how much of intermediate material you need

[fierce ruin]

Well mainly because nobody here cares about how much you "personally build" all they care about is getting general help from the Satisfactory community.

[wind spade]

satisfactory community will give you any number between 0 and 1000

[snow dove]

max possible heavy modular frames per minute

[wind spade]

because everyone plays differently and builds differently

[fierce ruin]

Well that may be true, but I just wanted to know the amount you would normally want for around tier three of the HUB, I didn't want an irrelevant answer from somebody who, according to their own discord nickname, is "helpful."

I really just wanted to know how much on average you would need in total for the entirety of Tier 3-4.

[median heath]

I just wanted to know the amount you would normally want for around tier three of the HUB

"However many you want to make" is the most accurate answer to that.

[wind spade]

again, that depends on your playstyle

[median heath]

As I immediately clarified in my following message...

[fierce ruin]

Instead, I just get some entirely useless piece of information from somebody, of which that information was not asked for nor is it cared for.

So thanks for your help

[wind spade]

imagine asking random people "what car should I buy"

[barren elm]

I go for 3 machines running the most complicated current item, but as said, it's like asking someone for advice on your favourite colour

[wind spade]

that's the kind of question you're asking

[barren elm]

*when I just want to get the tier done

[hexed crater]

How long is a piece of string?

[wind spade]

on average though

[fierce ruin]

i imagine those people would help me buy a car with better mileage to speed

[wind spade]

what if you instead care about trunk size or number of seats?

[fierce ruin]

you dont have to judge me because im a casual and you play this game for seven hours aday

[median heath]

You're assuming they know that's what you care about.

[wind spade]

if you said that, we can give you better answers

[fierce ruin]

well if they care, i imagine they'd figure it out

[wind spade]

and I haven't played the game since May 2019 so 7 hours a day is a bit of overstatement

[fierce ruin]

okay?

[barren elm]

Satisfactory is an architect game hidden inside a factory game trenchcoat

[fierce ruin]

am i assumed to know this?

[wind spade]

that's why we're trying to do. without extra info, we can't give you more concrete answer

[fierce ruin]

k well i gave you my extra info

[wind spade]

where?

[fierce ruin]

can i have a legitimate answer that doesn't waste my time?

[fierce ruin]

here

[median heath]

The legitimate answer is "however much you want."

You're refusing to accept it, like most other people do.
Which is why I said "45" at the beginning, and clarified why I said 45 immediately after.

[wind spade]

• what are your goals for given tier?
• how fast you want to finish it?
• do you want to have extra materials for building?
• if yes, how much do you expect to build?

[fierce ruin]

well i have terrible OCD and must know exactly how much i need for tier 4 automation

[hexed crater]

Sooo... anyone wanna' talk about the power usage of trains more? I also notice on the wiki there is a claim that locomotives have 'regenerative brakes'. I can't see this mentioned in the actual game anywhere but it doesn't seem to be true.

[fierce ruin]

alr

ik nothing of trains tho

[wind spade]

please define what do you mean for T4 automation. How many of which materials?

[fierce ruin]

my main goal is to achieve total automation for every automatable item in the game. i'd like to know how many modular frames are optimal, per minute to overflow into a storage container

[median heath]

There is no such number.

[hexed crater]

Do you just mean how many you need in total? As opposed to items per minute? Which depends on how long you wanna wait.

[wind spade]

how much of each item?

[fierce ruin]

whatever, ill just make 10/min thanks for the help guys

[frosty pawn]

depends on how long you want that storage container to fill

[median heath]

He's learning.

[fierce ruin]

oh wow you are hilarious

you should be a comedian

[frosty pawn]

you can make modular frames twice as fast and the container will fill up in half the time but when it's full, it's full

[hexed crater]

^ not very constructive

[wind spade]

exactly the approach you need to take. Make small amount, put it into storage. If you feel like you're running out because you're building too many buildings with it, increase it's production.

not "I want a final number"

[fierce ruin]

thats a better answer. see? can't we be a more civilized people? it's what ficsit would want

[wind spade]

I've told you this like half an hour ago

[frosty pawn]

ficsit doesnt want nice, ficsit wants profit

[hexed crater]

Are you aware of some of these planning utility websites out there?

[median heath]

One day I will learn why people accept things when you say the exact same thing I do..

[fierce ruin]

whatever you want is not an answer

[wind spade]

whatever you need is tho

[fierce ruin]

alr

[median heath]

This literally is "however many you want"

[fierce ruin]

must we take this further?

[frosty pawn]

no. we've established the question has no numerical answer. end.

[fierce ruin]

how many reinforced iron plates would i need per minute to make 10 mod frames per min? ik u guys will know

[frosty pawn]

depends which mod frames recipes youve unlocked

[wind spade]

depends on a recipe

[hexed crater]

@fierce ruin Do you know this website?
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_ModularFrame_C"%3A"10"}

[wind spade]

there are online tools that can answer these exact questions

[frosty pawn]

it's also on the wiki

[fierce ruin]

odd rewply

[wind spade]

something something teach a man to fish

[frosty pawn]

something something fish allergy

expect an answer with a level of quality similar to that of the question

[hexed crater]

You can put what you wanna make in and it tells you what stuff you need, if you follow the link you can see it's 15 with standard recipies.

[fierce ruin]

you people are odd

i hate that site

it does not work for me

[hexed crater]

as in?

Your web browser literally isn't loading the page propperly?

[wind spade]

try this then https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

[oblique notch]

9 times outta ten when someone says this its usually becaus they dont know how to use it. Just an observation. Carry on.

[fierce ruin]

im a programmer, i can use any website you give me

[oblique notch]

math. Its hard. People never wanna do it even when you (and you specifically) make a tool that makes it supper easy. Go figure.

[fierce ruin]

it doesnt work

[frosty pawn]

it does work

[wind spade]

what doesn't work on https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/ then?

[fierce ruin]

alr better question:

if u have 120 coal/min and i want to make a coal power plant, how many water extractors could i use to optimally feed into how many coal gens?

[oblique notch]

you can answer that question here: https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

[fierce ruin]

no it wouldnt

[oblique notch]

yes it will

[fierce ruin]

because i would need to know how much power i want

[wind spade]

ummm... that's simple math. Check out how much each extractor makes and how much each gen consumes

[frosty pawn]

#screenshots message

[fierce ruin]

and i dont have an answer to that question

[oblique notch]

what.

[wind spade]

you already know that tho, you know you have 120/min coal

that's a fixed amount of power

[fierce ruin]

ok whatever you guys are a lost cause

[oblique notch]

coal gens are not variable

[frosty pawn]

1201.766 MW

[wind spade]

hey we're just trying to help you. We're trying to provide you the tools to find your answers yourself

[oblique notch]

you feed in the same amount of coal per minute to give them 100% up time. So if you have 120/min coal... where might you go to find out how much coal a generator takes per minute? Maybe... the wiki?

[wind spade]

instead of having to ask here with everything you hit in the game

[oblique notch]

!wikisearch Coal generator

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Coal

[oblique notch]

It burns for four seconds in a Coal Generator. Math from there on! And if you're feeling lazy and dont want to do the math yourself... greeny's website does it for you.

[frosty pawn]

that page even has a link to the coal generator page

[wind spade]

I wonder if it's us or you. Given that we've given you all the tools you can use and yet you refuse to even look at them

[tawdry sail]

greeny website? Do you mean satisfactory calculator?

[median heath]

Tools > Calc

[wind spade]

when they mean my website, they mean https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

[tawdry sail]

nice website bro :--)

[tropic hawk]

Really? Only 2k? I thought it would be higher

[daring sonnet]

When working with Uranium Waste recycling, which Radio Control Unit recipe did you find easiest to work with for balancing the production of Pressure Conversion Cubes?

I understand that RCU recipes have 5, 7 and 9 ratios, and PCC recipes demand 2 RCUs, so since none is easily divisible, I was wondering which is more economical I guess? or which is more manageable in your experience?

[tropic hawk]

I personally like the default RCU recipe, but it depends on your priorities of resources

[daring sonnet]

everything is available for me rn because Im starting from the nuclear setup

[vapid gorge]

same tbh

[tropic hawk]

Let me clarify: which is more valuable to you, quartz, or caterium? Or Oil? How would you rank the value of resources, because that impacts which recipes to use is there is no obvious winner (pure ingots, in looking at you)

[daring sonnet]

I was thinking that the Radio Connection Unit saves a lot of aluminum and quartz, right?

but I dont really understand the Caterium flow between them

I mean, Radio Control System uses no caterium, but does the Connection Unit possibly saves on caterium too (relative to the main recipe)?

[tropic hawk]

Again, it depends on what you plan to use it for. I would give more advice, but I'm doing this from my phone. If you think it works better, go for it.

[daring sonnet]

Fertile Uranium though is pretty much the standard right?

[vapid gorge]

I suspect most people sink their plutonium rods so the ydo the standard recipe

[tropic hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/loads-shotgun-gif-18026290

To answer the question, no. I sink my rods and don't want to sacrifice maximum number of UFRs to make more PFRs

[warped willow]

hallo. I have an early-made overclocked Turbofuel plant that i went back to check on with the overclocking changes and wanted to run some math by you fine folks.

I have 2x Oil extractors (Pure nodes) pumping 480 m^3 into 8 refineries using the "Fuel" recipe (60 crude/min -> 40 Fuel/30 P.resin). 8x40= 320 Fuel going into 14 refineries producing the base TF recipe (22.5 F + 15 CompCoal/min) with the 14th refinery overclocked up to use the extra 5 Fuel (27.5) to make ~266.67 m^3 production of Turbo fuel.

This used to power 29 fuel gen's @250% with an extra 1 or so fluid but with generators now showing consumption at 11.25 m^3, these generators should surely be starting to dry up? 29*11.25 is 326.25 m^3/min and I understand Biomass gen's will not consume fuel if their power is not needed but these are burning fuel just fine, I'm just not sure mathematically how they are still functioning properly? 266 production fueling consumption of 326 still after hours of gameplay on U7. I hope i have not overlooked anything simple, any advice or clarification would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post.

[vapid gorge]

use satisfactorytools.com to choose the recipes you want to use and the amount of fuel you want to make

[warped willow]

i have used the website but thank you for sharing, certainly a great tool. The crux of my question is more that I have consumption of 326 m^3 now instead of 265, but nothing seems to be going wrong and I am unsure why that is the case. I was going to turn them all down to 200% or so to be closer to the old 9.11 but they aren't dropping below 50 fuel so I am a bit confused

[vapid gorge]

It's a wall of text that's very difficult to pull out the relevant data to work with sorry.

[warped willow]

No problem, I wanted to include the relevant math for anyone that had the time to provide insight.

[main atlas]

In terms of Coal power production (after my 7th restart since U4), should i put a burner to power the coal as a backup option?
All the 6 tries i've usually ran into power issues where either due to the issues coal wouldn't get mined anymore, or like, built too much without realizing which made my coal gens never boot back up again after forgetting about the fact my coal miner got empty

[vapid gorge]

my advice is if you think you did all the maths right check literally every connection, every machine, check the clocking, make sure you don't have the wrong mk belt or pipe or just missing a tiny segment or a tiny segment of belt isn't upgraded all of that

90% of the time there's just a tiiiiiny build mistake

[main atlas]

and 2 water extractors can feed 5 coal plants right

[vapid gorge]

If that's happening you either don't have stable power or you keep over building

2x120 water vs 5x45 for gens , looks like water wins?

having a burner set up to 'power your coal' is a patch fix that isn't going to make it in the long run

[main atlas]

both

my power with coal gens in my past worlds has never been stable

and i quickly forget the basic maths like power usage, material building costs and stuff

[vapid gorge]

you should check yoru generators and see if it's water or coal they are starving

[main atlas]

i can't build a 6th one tho? i tried before, it caused water to never fill up on the 6th

[main atlas]

it always depended on how much power was used

most of the time water was the issue

but at power outages the coal became an issue s well

[vapid gorge]

a 6th one on 2 water extractors?

[main atlas]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

ok so how much water does 2 water extractors do?

[main atlas]

every time i used 6 gens on 2 extractors it never worked properly

wait i meant 5 i think wait

nope i used 6 on them with one extractor being a bit boosted to 150 water

but it didnt fill the pipe or smth

[vapid gorge]

sounds like you have a piping problem. You can post pics of your set up if you like? It's near impossible to trouble shoot pipes w/o images

[main atlas]

and for some reason 2x120 on 5x45 didnt work either

[main atlas]

they're old worlds so i don't really even bother going through it anymore, is there any piping advice on preventing this on my new map? (just unlocked coal power last night + will be on later today to build it)

I mainly came here to ask for advice to prevent whatever i did wrong in the previous maps

[vapid gorge]

it's... Kinda?

[main atlas]

Like, headlift wasnt an issue, pipe flow was at the 3rd gen

for some reason around generator 3 the pipes were like "20 water/minute"

[vapid gorge]

Keep it simple.
Bring coal to water
Don't feed from manifolds below your machines

[main atlas]

instead of 120

[vapid gorge]

Flood your machines before you feed coal in

don't use valves

[main atlas]

i used to have 2 pipes in the center, which tilt a bit downwards to the gens, idk if that was a great idea

[vapid gorge]

don't use water buffers

[vapid gorge]

I'd have to see pictures sorry 😦

[main atlas]

ah that might be an issue then lmao

[main atlas]

the worlds are uh.. too broken at this point 😦

used mods when i gave up and those mods dont work on U7 so they're likely to crash

[main atlas]

i think that might be the issue 🤣

[vapid gorge]

if this is your first time going through the tiers I highly recommend you don't use mods. There's enough of the basics to master w/o getting mods involved

[main atlas]

well the third water wasnt connected to the same pipe network actually

[vapid gorge]

how much fluid per minute does it say a mk1 pipe can handle?

[main atlas]

most mods i used were a few decoration mods

but yeah..

[lilac coral]

Quick question: When items go around a curve on the belt, they spread out temporarily. Does the game treat both sections as the same items/min?

[vapid gorge]

if it's the same belt type yes

[main atlas]

nah this pic matches my pipe network more

with them not being connected

[lilac coral]

Yep, thanks. So just a graphical 'glitch', then.

[main atlas]

2 pumps on 5/6 gens, then the third one on the last 2/3

[vapid gorge]

you really need to math things out with it

mk1 pipe handles 300 pm, 3x120 water extractors is 360. It's not going to work

[main atlas]

no 2 are the max i use per pipe network

[vapid gorge]

your power systems are not production lines you can just wing unless you want a bad time

[main atlas]

the blue line and cross means that line there isn't connected to the other one

[vapid gorge]

is there still 8 total?

[main atlas]

so 240 on one line and 120 on the other

[main atlas]

in the times i had 8, yes

[vapid gorge]

well then they need to be connected right?

[main atlas]

2 feeding 5 OR 6 gens, not sure anymore

the 3rd feeding the leftovers on a seperate pipe

[vapid gorge]

8 gens take 360 water, 3 water extractors make 360 water.

[main atlas]

oh so having a 2 directional pipe would've been better

like the pic without my adjustment

[wind spade]

Pipes are bidirectional tho

[vapid gorge]

well can you fit 360 water pm down a pipe that can only handle 300?

[main atlas]

same connection like this would work? i always used to just cut off the center and keep 1 or 2 water extractors per 3-6 gens

[main atlas]

so thats a no

[vapid gorge]

no

1-2 extractors per 3-6 generators is an AWFUL way to design power

Like I said, don't just wing it.

[main atlas]

Ok so my setup i used to have was yellow being NO line, ignore that one
2W left -> 5 gens
1W right -> 3 gens

and it never worked

[wind spade]

..G  G  G  G
E-+--+--+--+
E-+
E-+--+--+--+
  G  G  G  G

[main atlas]

i see but 360 for pipes just doesnt work either yknow

[vapid gorge]

that's why you have extractors at either end

each generator consumes 45 water as it travels

[main atlas]

So we do come back on having water extractors connected at several places being a better way to handle it

[vapid gorge]

well.. the only way to handle a system that needs more than 300 water pm yes

[wind spade]

That doesn't work, one WE can only power 2.66 gens

[main atlas]

Yep thats where i fucked up then

Great! 😂

[vapid gorge]

pls, just... calculate water made vs water consumed and don't make me cry

[wind spade]

Or use this

[main atlas]

yeah i messed up badly then in my past worlds

[vapid gorge]

piping isn't hard when you get it but there's a lot of easy bumps in the road

[main atlas]

but thats not one E to 4G i hope

[vapid gorge]

if you still keep having issues take some pics and post them with your questions 🙂

[main atlas]

I get it, but i never knew the logic was different than i thought it was

lol

[fierce ruin]

The biggest enemy of piping is impatience

[wind spade]

That's 3E to 8G

[vapid gorge]

and in the example greeny gave you that's 3x extractors with 4 gens on either side. Still works

[main atlas]

thats... exactly my issue in daily life haha

[fierce ruin]

Well then use Satisfactory to teach you the Zen way of ding it 🙂

[main atlas]

i guess i got the schema wrong as well then, those 3 are connected?

[main atlas]

yep

[wind spade]

• is a pipe junction, yeah

[main atlas]

so no unlimited production lining in a row, preferred 2-5 setups or 3-8?

[main atlas]

ah yeah i messed up badly then

8 with 3 extractors is known to me but not in that way, lol

i see how i messed up, impatience and overbuilding

[vapid gorge]

well in that example because fluid is bi directional you'll get about 1.5 water extractors worth of water going down each side, which is well under the 300 pm of the pipe limit

[main atlas]

too much power requirements and a messed up pipe system

[main atlas]

but can you extend it to like 3-10? no right?
i'd need more extractors if i wanted to make it longer

[vapid gorge]

Also another tip - find a few coal nodes away from your factory next to water
Then dedicate 3-4 entire nodes jsut for power.
Whenever you get new belts or miners? Increase power

[main atlas]

Yep another mess up, i used 1 node 💀

[vapid gorge]

You would need more water extractors and you'd need to set it up so the water gets fed in at different points so at no junction more than 300 fluid is needing to be moved

The 3:8 generator set up is very good and straight forward for rookies cause piping can be annoying

[main atlas]

ah okay, so i'd need to calculate how much water ends up in the gens down the line and junction wherever i'd need a "refill" ?

[vapid gorge]

and you can just repeat the 3:8 over and over

[main atlas]

or.. just use 3-8 setup twice

[vapid gorge]

just make new groups

[main atlas]

yeah

[vapid gorge]

don't connect everything together

[main atlas]

ah so i'd need a lot of water lol

[vapid gorge]

always need more water 😄

[main atlas]

well i mean, space for the extractors

[vapid gorge]

But again - DONT connect alllll your pipes together. It overcomplicates things

[main atlas]

fun times

[main atlas]

fuck up number 5 🤣

[frosty owl]

Oh, right, did I mention that they fixed the duplication bug on load with splitters too?
'Cause, yeah...
@wind spade @oblique hollow

[vapid gorge]

yup - but there's quite a few spots where there's a bunch of coal nodes next to a lot of water. Just got to find them

[vapid gorge]

oh, nice 😄

[main atlas]

for the first time i started somewhere else than the first and 4th starting point

i'm near 4 iron ores, 4 coppers and coal is somewhere nearby as well

all within like 500m in the forest

[vapid gorge]

nice 🙂

[frosty owl]

Not so much for people making "no-mining" runs

[main atlas]

all thanks to someone who guided me to work there who is in this server lol

best start already since i can do more than just 1 ore node now with starting

[vapid gorge]

just looping objects over and over again?

[main atlas]

💀

[frosty owl]

The person who found about the bug streamed such a playthrough. Handmine a bit of something, put it in the "duplicator" and get items by save-loading from there on

[vernal blade]

why does the blueprint designer not let me connect power poles attached to wall outlets to foundations anymore?

[main atlas]

wait how did they even manage to duplicate stuff with a splitter lol

[vapid gorge]

rare bug

[frosty owl]

There used to be a bug thay gave a ~10% chance of getting at least one duplicated item when loading the game after setting up items traveling through a loop of ~10 splitters-mergers (the duplicated items exit the loop as overflow)
Something-something about items being saved "on more than one output at the same time" or similar

[main atlas]

oh damn

[frosty owl]

Aka: the last enemy for single-input sushi

So, just like someone used to exclaim that now that smart splitters' settings can be copy-pasted, sushi manifolds should be easily approachable, I declare that single-input sushi should be reevaluated as it now can only fail due to "bad setup" rather than just a miscalculation of bugs.

[main atlas]

damn

[frosty owl]

Or just nerf the encased frame recipe or whatnot :P
Tbf, Flexible is pretty good compared to standard (less frames and encased pipes needed, no more steel than this other than screws but using quite some oil), it just falls behind the other alt a bit imo (which uses way less frames and encased beam, the most annoying part to make)

[main atlas]

oh btw i unlocked alternative recipe for screws, should i use it? 5 iron ingots for like 30 screws

or should i keep using the iron to pipes to screws on the existing setup

[frosty owl]

The recipe is a good improvement over the standard. You skip one building step (Iron Rods) and make more Screws per Constructor

[main atlas]

hmm i see, so replace

[arctic willow]

cast screw is one of those recipes that has no tradeoff - there's simply not an application in which it's worse than the original recipe

[feral valve]

did the output of the nuclear power plant change? i think it made 20 nuclear waste at 250%, but is now 25?

[main atlas]

Is it more useful? i guess it is right..?

[vapid gorge]

the except is if you're making Steel Rods. Then it's more resource efficient

[karmic fjord]

Overclocking for power generators is now linear, so you have to drop it down to 200% for 5000 MW and 20 waste/min

[feral valve]

yeah but it messed up a lot of other calculations too for me...so i have to recalculate everything

[main atlas]

wait its cheaper with steel rods?

but faster with direct iron to screw?

[arctic willow]

in terms of overall resource efficiency, the cheapest way to make screws is to use the pure iron ingot alt in a refinery, then the solid steel ingot alt in a foundry, then steel rod alt in a constructor, then the default screw recipe in a constructor; so four machines of processing
iron ingot -> cast screw alt is two machines shorter, making it simpler to build, smaller and a lower power draw; plus it doesn't use any coal, which may be a consideration
so the tradeoff between the alts is a bit of a saving on resource vs complexity in production
but if you're comparing single recipe alts vs defaults, iron ingot -> rod -> screw is never better than iron ingot -> cast screw alt

[vapid gorge]

though if you don't care about copper Iron Alloy is better than Pure Iron

Many things ofc are subjective on what resources you value at any particular moment

[main atlas]

no idea what those other alts are tbh
But yeah, 2 machines shorter, saves more power and is simpler?

no idea what you mean with doesnt use coal, iron -> pipes -> screw isnt using coal either

[arctic willow]

coal is from the alts in the other path
iron + water -> pure iron ingot
iron ingot + coal -> solid steel ingot
steel ingot -> rod

[main atlas]

Ah i see

[vapid gorge]

There are also alt recipes that if you collect them you never need to make Rods or Screws again

[wind spade]

while that is true, you're looking at it in isolation, which can be often misleading. As was already said here, steel screws (or rather steel rod -> base screw) are more resource efficient, but you wouldn't know if you just compared alt with base.

This is one of the reasons why any alternate recipe analysis/rankings are inherently "wrong", because you should never look at "which recipe is better" but "which path to a final product is better"

ofc "better" is still subjective, but if you define your goals (e.g. "least oil used"), then the solution becomes mathematically unique

[main atlas]

Nice

Hmm i see

[vapid gorge]

don't worry, I covered for you on the screw efficiency recipe 😉

[nimble plume]

Idk is this right channel...but
Ive got 360 coal digged per minute, 24 power plants which need 15 coal per min, why do i lack coal for 4 power plants?

[wind spade]

did you manifold them?

[oblique hollow]

are your belts fast enough

[snow dove]

are you using mk4 belts?

or more than one mk3

[nimble plume]

Mk2 is max i have unlocked so far

[wind spade]

can you screenshot your setup?

[nimble plume]

Yup 1 sec

In 1st pic it might look weird, its like this cause 2 minings give me 240 and last one on other side gives 60 so i connected them

[snow dove]

you can’t push 360 coal through two mk2 belts

[oblique hollow]

... these are mk 2 belts, arent they?

yeah those look like mk 2

[wind spade]

they are pushing it through 4 belts tho

[oblique hollow]

no clue, idk what gets split and merged where

[nimble plume]

English hard, wait cant explain

[nimble plume]

Ima show it closer in a second

need to start the game 1 seec

the vid im making is way too big for dsc -_-

[nimble plume]

maybe this helps just a little to understand

[snow dove]

don’t OC to 150, you can only get 120 out anyways

[nimble plume]

huh why

[wind spade]

your belt can only carry 120/min max

[nimble plume]

oh

well ok i didnt include that

thx then

[thorn bane]

it definitely is 27+
i did some math with how many items get loaded onto a buffer with overflow and that also suggested 27+
#math-and-meta message

[river night]

imagine complaining about an imprecise measurement and then changing it to some number with no data backing it whatsoever just because its neat and round 😄

[deft lichen]

😐

it sure is fun datamining data and counting frames

[median heath]

The main issue is it uses more Screws than the base recipe.
The way I would buff it is just shuffle the requirements to take less Screws but more Rubber.

[hexed crater]

@scarlet sky So here's what I'm looking at.

I have a setup where a train comes down a shallow gradient into a station.
The power is 4 max overclocked biomass burners for 4 * 75 = 300 MW.
As the train coasts downhill approaching the station the consumption is 25 MW from each locomotive at idle + 0.1 MW from the stations at each end of the track. (stations apparently not ever consuming the advertised 50 MW is another thing I found.)

So if regenerative breaking is doing anything I'd expect to see
either a)
A brief increase in capacity
or b)
A brief reduction in consumption if the breaking is coded as a reduction in the locomotives idle power usage.

But as you can see it's just flat.

I'm gonna change it to constant power + mess around with power storage as was suggested and see if that changes anything.

[scarlet sky]

iirc it was a brief increase in production that I saw

Production exceeded capacity on a grid powered only by fuel generators

It was 9600MW of fuel generation, but I saw something like 9630MW of production

The only explanation that I can think of is that it was a train braking down a hill

It would also depend on whether or not it's regenerative braking that's used

The space bar activates friction braking, but the S key activates regenerative braking, when you're driving manually

(afaik)

So if that train there is only using friction braking you won't see anything being put back into the grid

[hexed crater]

hmm I'll have a play around with driving it manually.

[scarlet sky]

Fully loading it will also help, the game engine takes the weight of the train into account when calculating braking effectiveness

[hexed crater]

you have any power storage on your setup?

[scarlet sky]

Shittons of it

Enough to power an entire tier 8 world for a couple of hours

[hexed crater]

I mean on your isolated train power setup.

[scarlet sky]

Ah, no, I just have a wolrdwide battery backup

It's easy enough to put some on it though, why?

[hexed crater]

oh hang on

That looks more like it.

[scarlet sky]

Is that biomass?

[hexed crater]

yeah same setup

I guess the train was only using the spacebar brake automatically

[scarlet sky]

*brake

[frosty owl]

I don't see the screws as a big deal (it's in line with the "use screws, get more output/min" idea that seems to accomunate Bolted and Copper Rotor recipes) and the Rubber usage seems already quite high
I think I stand a bit closer to the "concrete HMF are too OP" camp than the "flexible needs buffing" camp

[scarlet sky]

I've actually been thinking of installing a mod of some kind that would give me better power statistics, so I can tell exactly where all my power is coming from, that would help too

[median heath]

#MakeFlexibleMoreSushi-friendly

[hexed crater]

So do you see the regen power when your trains are driving around on auto?

[scarlet sky]

yeah

[hexed crater]

hmm

[scarlet sky]

But there's a few places where they hit 200km/h fully loaded downhill and then need to stop

[hexed crater]

Maybe it doesn't need to do it because the grade is pretty shallow.

^yeah

[scarlet sky]

That's what I'm thinking. Those trains are going 200km/h down a long 2m ramp, fully loaded

(my trains)

[hexed crater]

You'd think they would prioritise the braking that generates power first and then use spacebar when they need extra.

[scarlet sky]

eh, it's not enough to make any real difference in the game, it's just cool. Not really worth putting that much effort into

[hexed crater]

Yeah this topic has become the white whale to my captain Ahab, but at least one mystery is solved. Thanks for your help!

[shut tusk]

I just finished my first ever powerplant (a real one, not just some coal generator on the ground)
It uses 56 Generators, and then I learned about Load balancing

I don't know how to balance all of that

The last coals generators are obviously not running, but I'm not sure how to fix it

[scarlet sky]

Not really worth it for a bank of coal generators

[median heath]

You learned about the method that almost no one uses?

[scarlet sky]

I use load balancers all the time, but I wouldn't use them for a coal generator farm

[shut tusk]

Why not ?

[median heath]

Because manifold is simpler and produces identical results.

[hexed crater]

I was planning to check out the ficsit network mod. It looks pretty hardcore lol.
Kinds looks a bit like the KOS mod for KSP.

[scarlet sky]

They take up too much space and a simple manifold setup works just as well here

[median heath]

Mod discussions in the appropriate Discord, please.

[shut tusk]

I'm not sure what it is

[median heath]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[shut tusk]

Well, Injected Manifold might be the better option then

[median heath]

Prefilling the machines will skip the spooling up phase so you start at 100% eff for the cost of running to each machine and putting a stack in it.

[shut tusk]

The problem is the coal is burning faster than it's arriving

So this won't work

[scarlet sky]

Then you need more coal?

[median heath]

That sounds like you're not supplying enough to the system.

56x15=840

[shut tusk]

Wait but...

Yeah I got that too

[median heath]

Ok so you need at least 2 mk5s or mk4s to move that.

[shut tusk]

I got 2 MK3 on the center, and 2MK2 on the left and right

[median heath]

And ofc it will have to come from at least 2 different nodes.

[median heath]

270+270+120+120=780

780 < 840

Supply issue.

[shut tusk]

Wait i'm screenshoting xD

I did this so the 120 could have 60 more

I'm using 7 nodes: 2 Impures, 4 normals and 1 pure

[median heath]

You need 4 mk3s running into the system or you won't have enough.

[shut tusk]

Oh damn

Sorry, it was simple enough

[median heath]

Break it into modules of 16.
Each will need 240 to run.

Much simpler to track and diagnose issues.

[pulsar viper]

What's the optimal way to produce plastic and rubber? Currently (end of tier 6), I'm producing them via polymer resin and refining into plastic and rubber at the point of use

That resin is coming from my refineries for fuel production and a dedicated poly resin line to meet production needs for the base

[cold jasper]

The best way would be to use the recycled recipies, but then you would have no excess fuel. With them you can turn 1 crude oil into 3 rubber or plastic

[pulsar viper]

Sweet. I'll probably end up converting over my dedicated resin line to recycled once I hit t7

Thanks!

[median heath]

You need T7 for "optimal" because it needs Blenders and Diluted Fuel.

[pulsar viper]

Yep, I figured I wouldn't have the optimal setups for things just yet. That said, I'm taking some time rn to basically rebuild my factory to allow for easier expanding in the future and was trying to get a better idea of what my later game plastic/rubber refining and supply will look like

[cold jasper]

Isn't the diluted packaged fuel the same hor to fuel ratio as diluted fuel?

[median heath]

Yes but I would not consider setting that loop inside a Recycled Loop to be "optimal" by any means.

[cold jasper]

Just need refs and packagers instead of blenders?

[topaz hedge]

You can use packager loops

[fierce ruin]

The only real advantage of diluted packaged over regular diluted is power consumption and access to the recipe earlier in the game.

[topaz hedge]

It's alot more work. But the end result is the same

[fierce ruin]

It is a logistical nightmare to setup.

[topaz hedge]

It's not bad.

[fierce ruin]

Diluted packaged fuel factories take up a lot more space than regular diluted.

[topaz hedge]

If it's giving you headaches you're doing it wrong.

[fierce ruin]

The only issue is calculating how many fluid containers you need circulating through the system.

[topaz hedge]

Yeah you're doing it wrong

[fierce ruin]

Plus you shouldn’t need that much power before T7.

[topaz hedge]

It's a close loop. So just a single belt. Packager refinery packager. Loop belt back to beginning

[fierce ruin]

Yes but the issue comes when needing to calculate how many containers need to be on that closed loop.

[topaz hedge]

No?

I just throw a stack in and off to the races it goes.

[fierce ruin]

Still no real point in making an argument for it. There just isn’t really a need for it.

[topaz hedge]

There's a bunch of ways you can set it up. And I realize it's pretty much moot.

That's the only screen shot I could find

[fierce ruin]

On an optimistic note, I might consider using the packaged diluted alt now that blueprints are a thing.

[vapid gorge]

It... really isn't hard to 'calculate'. Make a done of containers, stick them in a couple containers with belts faster enough for hte packager manifold and loop the unpackaged containers back.

It's one of the few power related things you can actually just eyeball

[steel elk]

which one should i pick to tightly pack iron production together? I want to have 2400 ingots/min and there are only 2 copper deposits nearby that i can harvest without train (both normal)

[maiden steeple]

I'd say go for pure, water is basically free

[deft lichen]

pure is the exact opposite of tightly pack

[maiden steeple]

Though ^ is definitely true

[deft lichen]

get as much copper as you can for iron alloys, then decide between default and pure for the rest

[steel elk]

i am trying to "train up" the base i guess so i could train a bunch over from somewhere else

[deft lichen]

alloys are definitely the most "tightly packed" recipes if that's what you're looking for

[steel elk]

epic

[main atlas]

ok so which one is the best (beginning a new map btw)

[deft lichen]

disclaimer: all alts are useful and subjective
I personally like iron wire (when combined with stitched plates), iron alloy is a great recipe too
quartz isn't needed early on

[maiden steeple]

The pure stuff is good later, but very early I'd recommend either iron wire or iron alloy depending on how much copper and iron are nearby

[main atlas]

theres a lot of both nearby tbh

4 iron patches and 3 copper

[deft lichen]

if I had to pick between wire and alloy I'd pick wire

[main atlas]

coal is 1000 meters away though

[deft lichen]

because the iron wire+stitched plate combo is awesome

[main atlas]

ok true, saves some copper setups

time to figure out if it fits in the existing iron setup

[deft lichen]

I wouldn't rebuild everything just because you got a new alt

[main atlas]

oh i wont

i think ill use the second floor for it (i use 2 iron patches atm)

[deft lichen]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=nLa9SyIg0Gx35N3BPpYM reinforced plates using iron wire+stitched

[main atlas]

i dont got stitched yet, sadly

looks good to me

wires and cables

[ember fractal]

1m or 2m foundations?
vote with 1 or 2 emoji

[main atlas]

lmaooo

here it is