math-and-meta

[silent shoal]

Is there a way to calculate the transfer speed of a train or drone in relation to the MK5 belt?
I know it depends on many things, but is there a way to know roughly what to expect on the other side? Or how to measure how many items go out per minute?

[oblique hollow]

the wiki has a formula for estimating but the best thing you can do is just overbuild the train.

mk 5 belts are your limit anyway

the only benefit of using trains or drones? not having to build 5 km of mk 5 belts

after completing one trip, the drone port and train station display their expected throughput

[wind spade]

other benefits include:

drones:

• not having to care about terrain

trains:

• reusable infrastructure by other trains
• rails transfer power

[median heath]

Longer route will get you closer to the 1560/min per car mark.

Average routes usually can push 1100-1300 per car without issue.

[silent shoal]

cool ok 😅
I'm learning about trains now🥰

[silent shoal]

Oh, that's pretty cool

[glacial hemlock]

as long as the 25second belt pause is not lifted, it is very hard to achieve 2belt per wagon. The train best advantage would be reducing entity count and saving fps

[median heath]

27.08s*

And if they ever lift it I will be very upset because it's one of the few things keeping trains balanced atm.

[oblique hollow]

unless they find a way for the animation desync to not look bad, it will likely stay

[turbid osprey]

guys what recipes should i use to make a fuel power plant bcz i dont have blenders for the diluted fuel

[wind spade]

then packaged diluted

[turbid osprey]

what

[wind spade]

packaged diluted fuel alt recipe

[latent wedge]

Anyone know the rate changes for Encased Industrial Beams when the Assembler is overclocked?

oop let me put this in #old-questions-and-help

[wind spade]

normal rate * overclock % / 100

[median heath]

My advice? Don't make one yet.

[turbid osprey]

i have no power doe

[median heath]

X for Doubt.

How much power do you really have?

[turbid osprey]

i have like 200mw left to spare

[median heath]

You have oil set up, yes?

Plastic/Rubber.

[turbid osprey]

no i recently unlocked it

[median heath]

I'll give you the basic setup that not only powers itself, gives you MORE power for your grid:

300 Oil

5 Rubber Refineries @ 100%
5 Plastic Refineries @ 100%

Byproduct HOR routed to
4 Coke Refineries @ 93.75%
Feeds 18 Coal Gens with no waste.

You need 600ish MW to jumpstart it, but it produces 1350 MW

[turbid osprey]

nice

i have 480 crude oil

[median heath]

You have 480 without clocking anything.

[magic island]

I think the train station pause makes sense from a balance perspective, but aesthetically it's clunky that you always need to pair every freight platform with an ISC. when two buildables must ALWAYS be paired up no matter what, it means something could maybe be streamlined

so I wish they could maintain that balance tradeoff while making it viable to use the platform storage directly. would feel cleaner

[turbid osprey]

yes

[median heath]

So if you clock you can get like 600 easy and make 2 of those setups.

Which will push you into T7 just fine. Where you get Blenders for Diluted Fuel.

[turbid osprey]

how about i take the oil, use the recipe where i directly turn the crude oil into fuel use the fuel for power and use the resin for plastic and rubber?

@median heath ?

[median heath]

Do you even have Fuel Gens yet?

[turbid osprey]

uhhh not really

i need to unlock them first

[uncut sigil]

Fuel generators are also expensive. Burn the coke until you’re actually ready to upgrade and need the added power.

[median heath]

Exactly. That's why the above is the basic setup.

[turbid osprey]

ye i just checked what i need to unlock the fuel gens

so ill just use yours

[latent wedge]

splitter/merger/overlapping layout lol

[iron cairn]

What software is that?

[median heath]

Excel

[glacial hemlock]

Impressive given how tedious it's to make

and i Restrainted myself to comment anything about balancer

[cerulean lintel]

wait... split 40 into 20 and 20 and then merge it back together hmmm

[warm pelican]

Gotta fill all the holes on the merger

[thick plank]

I mean you can use dilluted fuel without blenders just fine. Its a real pain, but it works

[wind spade]

Pain? It's pretty simple

[vapid gorge]

the packaging and unpackaging feels more annoying than it is tbh

[lunar moss]

does this look like good aluminium setup? i can understand if you dont get our sheet but its our first sheet we made

output is 1000 ingots

[frosty owl]

Protip: SFTools production plans are much easier to share and understand quickly. This is often true about making the plan too

[lunar moss]

Ah I see

I'll have a look at that this afternoon

[frosty owl]

Anyhow, if seeing machines turn on/off every now and then annoys you, I'd advise against clocking machines to (eg) 1/3 as the game doesn't have the precision needed for that (the clock will be rounded at .3333 or .3334)

[frosty owl]

1k bauxite in and 1k ingots out are good numbers for the recipes you've chosen 👍 (I haven't checked the rest as I'm not understanding the sheet a lot)

The only way to have a better-than-1 Bauxite/Ingots ratio is by using the default alu ingots recipe

[lunar moss]

i see thanks

[oblique hollow]

i love the 5 different versions of "Refinery"

[lunar moss]

im im thinking about underclocking all the machince equally instead of under/overclocking one and round it up so it prouces ever so slightly more and just sink the overdoses

[lunar moss]

haha thanks, thats really the humor or me and my friend ahha

we always change up names to random shit

[glacial hemlock]

the meta about alum processing is the recycling of waste water (and silica, if applicable). Once you get past that, any design generally works.

[placid lichen]

what is this weird split

[wind spade]

well, it doesn't have to be a split

[glacial hemlock]

702 seems completely fine running off a single belt

[placid lichen]

mk.4

anyways
it was just some miscalculation

[wind spade]

miscalculation?

[silent shoal]

I want to build a Nuclear Power Plant in the corner of the map and I want to transport one train with uranium and another one with all the things needed from my factory.
How would you move the train and why?

[wind spade]

by rails because you can't move it by other means

[deft lichen]

enable the "natural roads" layer there and follow that
also, you can reveal everything by disabling "fog of war"

[silent shoal]

Where can I disable the "fog of war" setting?
Regarding the "natural roads" I activated it but I want to do the route above the ground

[deft lichen]

it's useful for above ground tracks, because there's no tall trees over the roads

or just general passages in the terrain

fog of war is somewhere in the toolbar on the right

[fluid mist]

Should i do 4 lines of 375 or 2 line of 600 and a 300?

sulfuric acid btw

Nvm 4 lines are better

[wind spade]

you should decide based on where you put it

if you need 600 on other side, then 600 is fine. If you need 375 then 375 is fine

[thick plank]

id say doesnt matter anyways? at so many resources/min your better off using an overflow anyways

[wind spade]

yes, but if you have a set of machines that needs 600, you don't want to deliver 375 + 375

[thick plank]

yeah, but id just assume now that producing 1500 sulfuric acid is at such a height that most likely its for one single megaproject. you dont really stockpile sulphuric acid, you use it. so most likely its one giant factory that need 1.5K/min

so it doesnt matter

[wind spade]

even in a big project, you can still have separate productions. Doesn't even have to be at the sulfuric acid levels, it can be one or more products down the line

[thick plank]

you mean downstream, but a few levels up, but yes, that can be, it depends, but most likely it doesnt matter wich pipes to use

[wind spade]

all I'm saying is that you should consider both logistics to transport and logistics on site before you decide on number of belts/pipes and amounts of items in them

if it ends up not mattering at all, good for you. But for a lot of people it matters and they do not consider things they should before building it

[thick plank]

im not disputing that, thats logical. I just said that i think it wouldnt matter, as an answeer to his question

[wind spade]

given that we don't have information about what they plans to build (or already built), it's kinda bad to assume it doesn't matter. What if they already built 4 groups of machines ready to accept 375?

[thick plank]

you dont have to say that to me. i build a big copper plant (18K wire/min, 9K cables/min, around 5K plates/min) and forgot to actually think ybout how to store that stuff and im struggling with that at the moment

[placid lichen]

guys i need help.
been sitting on this for an hour now.
i only have mk4 conveyor belts so i need to do 2 conveyors for these foundries.
the problem is, i can't figure out how many foundries each of the conveyors will get.
number of foundries: 13, one of them requires 13.332 iron ingots
--------how much each conveyor gets here:
conveyor 1 - 5 refineries, 325 iron ingots per minute.
conveyor 2 - 3 refineries, 195 iron ingots per minute.
total iron ingots per minute: 520
iron ingots the foundries require: 513.33
i do think the amount of refineries each conveyor gets needs to be adjusted.
not sure tho.
(im avoiding overflow here, and over course want to have 100% efficiency.)

[frosty owl]

[wind spade]

if you want to avoid overflow, then I'd recommend not doing setup where you have 33.333% clocked refinery

[placid lichen]

lemme

wait

damn your right

satisfactory tools scammed me

💀

[wind spade]

how?

[frosty owl]

Are you calling @wind spade a scammer?! How dare?
||Joking tone disclaimer||

[placid lichen]

nah its just the fact this could have been alot easier if i just ignored the underclocking

[thick plank]

100% efficiency is off the table cause your wasting 6.66 iron/min. What I would advice you to do is the following: you link up one conveyor to one end and link the other to the other end and let it merge in the middle.

If you want only loadbalancers this will take a few more minutes to moddle this

[near zenith]

slander of the highest order, this shall not stand

[placid lichen]

i feel extremely irritated rn
e
turns out its 100% when you dont underclock

anyways problem fixed

nice

[frosty owl]

Funfact that might interest you @placid lichen
When the Iron Ore input is 780/min (max possible), you can refine it all and be left with exactly 30/min... just enough for one smelter at 100%

[wind spade]

if it's 100% without underclocking, tools would tell you that 🤔

[placid lichen]

*might be

numbers do add up but not sure if its possible with 2 conveyors

[thick plank]

what? 780 ore --> 30 ingots? wich recepie are you using?

[frosty owl]

780 ore -> Bunch of 100% Pure Iron refineries -> 30/min Ore leftover for a smelter

[thick plank]

man these numbers dont add up

[placid lichen]

13 x 40 = 520
65 x 8 = 520

[thick plank]

ah thats what you meant, ok, yrs

[frosty owl]

Nevermind... Don't know why I ended up remembering such a "funfact", but the numbers indeed don't add up. The "nice" leftover is 60/min every 12 refineries and 480/min input

[thick plank]

@placid lichen somehow your numbers are off.

[frosty owl]

I clearly remember using a smelter to even out the numbers from a 780/min line being fed to Pure Iron refineries running at 100%, but the smelter was probably not at 100%

[thick plank]

wich recepie are you using?

[placid lichen]

iron or steel

[thick plank]

steel

[placid lichen]

solid steel

[thick plank]

ok. good. thx

[frosty owl]

That's a solid recipe

[thick plank]

them numbers still dont add up but its a starting point

you dont have enough iron

[placid lichen]

520 is how much the foundries need

740?
wait a minute
i saw that number alot of times while doing some math stuff

[thick plank]

sry about that

[placid lichen]

might have passed it accidently

[thick plank]

i read the charts wrong

[placid lichen]

i rewrote those like 3 times

e

[thick plank]

so with 12 + 1/3 foundrys you need 493+1/3 iron/ min

[placid lichen]

yeah uhh,
this gonna be kinda awkward,
but those charts are kinda outdated.
things changed here:
no more underclocked stuff
conveyor 1 and 2 are pretty much the same

[thick plank]

or let me put it otherwise: with 8 refineries you can support 13 full foundrys

[thick plank]

ah ok. thats better. thats what confused me

[placid lichen]

the numbers add up now
but

2 conveyors with 260
to 13 foundries

i cant find a way to do that equally

[thick plank]

i am close to one, wait a sec

[wind spade]

which charts? 🤔

[thick plank]

i accidnetally took the output as input

[placid lichen]

the maths i did right now are missing out on 40 which would be the 13th foundry

that was wrong (deleted message)

[frosty owl]

Protip: learn making better use of the Codex and its (greatly expanded since u6!) item-planning features 😉

That'll help in both calculating things and not getting any number wrong due to using old sources (also, it's all in-game!)

[placid lichen]

item planning features?

[frosty owl]

If you expand any of the recipes in the codex, you can input an output/min or clock% and the codex will show the input requirements for that

[thick plank]

hope its obvious where to put a merger/splitter

red is refinery, black is foundry

[frosty owl]

#just_manifold

[wind spade]

indeed

[thick plank]

indeed

[placid lichen]

alr thanks

[thick plank]

but it was explicitly asked not to do that

[silent shoal]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good explanatory video about trains and signals?

[feral valve]

i think there is one from TotalXclipse that was good

maybe Kibitz

[fierce cypress]

check the #old-questions-and-help pins for a good reddit guide

[median heath]

☝️

Second pin.

[silent shoal]

🥰

[fluid mist]

It was for non fissile uranium but i only need 1 of 4 to supply 10 full over clock blenders

[silent shoal]

Why does it write this?
It's a push pull system, each station looking in the opposite direction and out.

[median heath]

Need to see the other station.

[silent shoal]

I rebuilt the Locomotives and the wagons and everything works 🙂

[median heath]

nice!

[wooden notch]

is there a program that can do a lot of the math for me or should i stick with spreadsheets

[silent shoal]

My first train works B)
Not that big but another step to nuclear power😅
And yes I'm sitting in Locomotive and yes I'm not sure it's the healthiest thing to do🤣

By the way can the radiation stay in the things next to it?
(like in reality?)
if if I delete the storage where all the uranium is then there will be no radiation at all?

[median heath]

First link in the pins of this channel.

[silent shoal]

try this https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/

[median heath]

Radiation is tied to the items making it.
No item, no radiation.

[silent shoal]

cool Thanks

[vapid gorge]

Radiation technically doesn't 'stay in the stuff next to it' if you move the source away.
The reason radiation spreads is because you get unsealed radioactive material that spread radioactive particles.

So in effect you're failing to actually move the radioactive material away. So in real life if you have a perfectly sealed container of radioactive material spewing radiation at you could remove that radiation by moving the unit

[glacial hemlock]

Radiation stays with the thing that emit it

[main shuttle]

petition to have radiation be more realistic & irradiate objects that are around sources for too long

[vapid gorge]

as in they deteriorate?

[main shuttle]

or become radioactive themselves

[vapid gorge]

Well that entirely depends if the radioactive material was properly sealed so that material doesn't escape.

Assuming the containers are sealed the surrounding area would not become radioactive in and of themselves

[frosty owl]

Imagine having to craft more than one hazmat suite...

[deft lichen]

Imagine having to craft more than one hazmat suit...

[primal crypt]

what is the best production of uranium fuel rods, but with an ability to make all the waste into plutonium fuel rods? and can i see a graph of it?

[frosty owl]

Use SFTools and set the production to Uranium Fuel Rods.
Knowing each Rod equals 50 Waste, give the planner an input of Rods*50 Uranium Waste/min (inputs tab)
Finally, add Plutonium Fuel Rods in the output tab and keep increasing that until you use up all the Waste input
(Note: all alt recipes lead to less waste-per-PFR)

[empty elk]

Plot twist: radiation-proof storage containers

[placid lichen]

quick question,
if i have 160mil of fuel per minute,
and 13.333 fuel generators (exactly all consuming 160mil)
would a pipe manifold work on giving them those amounts?

[median heath]

13.3333 * 12 = 159.9996
159.9996 != 160

Yes, pipe manifold would work.
But you do need an overflow hook + packager to handle the inevitable excess.

[silent shoal]

I'm trying to build something near the station so I deleted all the uranium...
Do you have a logical explanation for why there is radiation?

I have some problems...
I'm trying to connect 2 pull-push systems to one station and I can't make everything work... is this even possible?

[median heath]

Doesn't dissapate instantly.

[silent shoal]

ohh ok///

[wooden notch]

is it weird I don't build building and just have flouting foundations everywhere?

[median heath]

It is not.

[wooden notch]

cool i see all these builds and i'm just wondering if it's a meta thing

[fleet flame]

nah i do the same lol, just build on the ground mostly. Im not a big builder i like the logistics

[honest tree]

Im so confused, Im giving my coal plants 15 coal per min when it says that the amount it uses per minute but theyre still crashing anyone know why

[median heath]

Water is the other component

Picture of setup?

@honest tree

[honest tree]

the belt coming in gives 120 coal a min

theres 8 plants and i split it even

[fleet flame]

doesnt look like the coal is feeding it fast enough

[median heath]

Oh my God whyyyyyy

[honest tree]

it temporary lol

[median heath]

Manifold...

[honest tree]

but the belts are mk2

[median heath]

So?

Manifold.

[fleet flame]

open one of your coal generators and see how much coal it has in it

[honest tree]

wait wdym manifold

[median heath]

!wikisearch Manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Manifold

[honest tree]

and when i do it just doesnt get the coal fast enough

so i underclocked but it should be capable of 100%

[median heath]

Also what is going on with your water piping??

[fleet flame]

Have you overclocked the coal production?

[honest tree]

no underclocked

and yeah the pipes are a mess but it gets more than enough

[fleet flame]

@honest tree how much do all of those water pumps produce total? and are that all connected to the same pipeline?

and i would overclock the coal production

[honest tree]

uh theres 1200 water i think

theres 10 total water pumps

anf four transport pipes all on the same network

[fleet flame]

all connected to the same pipe network?

[raw mason]

as the coal splits, less and less coal gets to the plants so you should have a system to get more coal to the end of a splitter line

[honest tree]

yes

[median heath]

No?

As the generators fill, they take only exactly what they need, so more gets pushed down the line.
That's how manifolds work.

[wind spade]

no, the first ones fill up and then only take what they need

[fleet flame]

so 1200 water trying to feed a pipe that only transfers 600pm. you need to split the pipe networks

[raw mason]

🤯 oops

[honest tree]

yeah I split it into 4 the water seems to be working

[fleet flame]

then it must not be getting enough coal. Overclock the coal miner

[honest tree]

is this manifold?

[median heath]

Yes

[honest tree]

this is what I had at first but I dont think its working right

[median heath]

You have to let it fill.

Prefeeding helps.

[dusky yacht]

with a manifold, the last generator will get only a fraction of the coal until the gens before that one will be filled up

[median heath]

"You have to let it fill."

[honest tree]

i see I was being impatient with the generators, thanks

[dusky yacht]

if you want to get people to understand WHY you have to let it fill, you need to explain that :>

[median heath]

Prefeed to skip the filling step.

[fleet flame]

I need someone bored enough to join my world and just collect all the slugs and hard drives 🤣

[median heath]

That part of the game is 10x better now that a) you can wear jetpack + blade runners simultaneously and b) they fixed the Object Scanner.

[fleet flame]

Yeah that makes it easier but im too lazy to go around doing it while also expanding my factory lol

[median heath]

What tier are you in?

[fleet flame]

plus ive been using the interactive map for locations of shit

[median heath]

Ugh

[fleet flame]

completed them all

only thing left for me is phase 4

[median heath]

See, you completing all tiers without collecting like 90% of the drives already is issue #1 😉

[fleet flame]

just trying to make an actual tidy factory instead of an open field with all the machines lined up lol

[fleet flame]

why?

[median heath]

Project Parts take forever to build. So during Phase 2 and Phase 3 while they are building that's when you go on exploration runs.
Multitask.

Because otherwise you're just sitting there waiting for them.

Should have like 70 (both used and unused) drives going into T7-8

[fleet flame]

nah cause im building an actual factory now i had collected like 6 drives, so was just building and scanning them

i dont mean 6 total, just 6 at 1 time

[median heath]

Yes.
You want to have all/most alts prior to building your "actual factory" though.

So you have the options for factory permanence.

[fleet flame]

Its my first save so was kinda just working shit out. Didnt want to look anything up, i only joined this discord is cause my monorail wouldnt work and needed help lol

was trying to just learn myself without just googling shit or looking at the wiki

[median heath]

Yet you use the online map 😉

[fleet flame]

Not until about halfway through phase 3 i didnt

[median heath]

Fair.

[fleet flame]

just used the scanner pretty much

[silent shoal]

Can someone please help?

[median heath]

Don't do bidirectional rails on a single network.

[silent shoal]

oh can't you? Basa it could have been beautiful...

Could something like what I created work?

I was thinking about a T junction in the middle of the road the problem is that I don't know if they will interfere with each other...
Let's say as in the drawing that the green train is on its way to the station and the yellow train will stop because the green train is in the block between the T junction and the station...

[median heath]

You can, it's just logistically tricky.
And that's why I always say "Do not do bidirectional rails unless you know exactly what you are doing."

Dual-rail systems just work better and are simpler to both expand and diagnose issues with.

[silent shoal]

I feel you are right...I will use a 2 line system...
My question is this

1. What I wrote about the green and yellow train.
2. Now do you need 2 train tracks from each station?🥲

[median heath]

1. Possible
2. Multiple ways to accomplish station connection to dual-rail system.

[silent shoal]

1. By "possible" you mean that this could be a problem?
2. There is some way to understand this because I've seen a lot of videos and read a lot of information, but most of it is pretty basic information...

[median heath]

1. Yes. Could be, could not be. There are multiple factors at play.
2. Basic, fundamental information is what you need.
   You need to know how the system works. Then you use that information to build what you want.

You shouldn't be just copy/pasting other people's setups 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

There's a mod for that

[empty elk]

I say it would be a viable base-game feature

But would be better for post 1.0 updates

[median heath]

Everyone assumed that's what the Hazard Personal Storage Box was 😂

I don't think they will add it though.
No real reason.

You can eliminate Uranium Waste entirely, and if you choose to create Plutonium Waste... dealing with that consequence is part of the choice.

[fluid mist]

I have 59220 Uranium waste left and my procing speed is 281.25 per min how many mins will it take?

[grim reef]

210.56mins

[fluid mist]

Thanks

only 4 ish hours left

[wintry aurora]

Assuming your uranium production rate is 0.

[frosty owl]

....

[silent shoal]

Can anyone help me here? I can't figure out why this isn't working...
I marked the stations and the block signal in the picture

[marble topaz]

You need to add path signals where the train enters the intersection

[silent shoal]

Not sure how that helps...

[median heath]

Still committed to bidirectional rails I see.

[deft lichen]

what are you trying to accomplish? this seems like a really weird layout

[oblique hollow]

to solve this, you need this:

there is no other way with bidirectional rails

the only other option is to switch to single direcrion, 2 lane rail traffic

[median heath]

Which the layout of that is a hop away from just being a 2 rail system anyway.

[oblique hollow]

yep

you basically have to convert from bidi to 2 rail

else ita unsolvable

[median heath]

Which is why that was my point the other day when he and I already had this discussion 🤷‍♂️

[oblique hollow]

save this image

to show them in the future "this is the hell of bidi"

[median heath]

I don't have room.
Too many memes on my phone

[oblique hollow]

less memes more satis deterioration images

@silent shoal see above, your stations are too close for anything to work

[deft lichen]

I can only see one track that connects the stations to the rest of the network, so why not just use a more sensical station layout

[glacial hemlock]

can the nodes be reduced by using overhead crossing?

[oblique hollow]

errrr unlikely?

possibly if you build a turbine intersection

but theres still the bidi to mono conversion

[wind spade]

you shouldn't put signals on bidirectional rails imo

[oblique hollow]

yeah just let em crash lol

[median heath]

It can be done.
You just really, really have to know what you're doing.

[wind spade]

no, I mean don't put two-way signals anywhere (e.g. top right and top left on your schema)

[median heath]

That works if you have only 1 train.

[deft lichen]

if you only have 1 train, why signal?

[wind spade]

if you have any number of trains 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

But more than one and crash is inevitable.

[wind spade]

why would trains crash if there's signals

[median heath]

This is you saying to not use signals.

[wind spade]

on bidirectional rails

[median heath]

Yes.

Hmmm

[silent shoal]

This is a scale model of what I have...
I play alone and it's really hard to go to the other side of the map every time to check something

[wind spade]

or in other words, remove these

[median heath]

What you're suggesting is build a dual-rail, signaled system with certain bidirectional aspects.

[oblique hollow]

the scale model unfortunately is too small for it to be built

[oblique hollow]

greeny this is a bidi to mono converter, you need those

[wind spade]

you don't tho

[median heath]

Which routes back to "just build a dual rail system"

[wind spade]

this is all you need for conversion from dual rail to bidirectional rail

red = path, blue = block

[silent shoal]

I will try to do what you drew

[wind spade]

if it's dead-end bidirectional rail, replace path with block

[median heath]

But why?
Why are you so committed to bidirectional rails?

[deft lichen]

I just don't understand what does your junction achieve differently than this one?

seems really overcomplicated to me

[oblique hollow]

less waiting theoretically

[wind spade]

bidirectional is pain

[deft lichen]

a bidi system with multiple trains will have horrible wait times no matter what

still, if I had multiple end-of-the-line stations, I'd just build this, not that huge junction that separates directions

[median heath]

Look at you handing out trade secrets 😭

[oblique hollow]

hm

my image is better anti-bidi propaganda

[median heath]

When I say "don't do bidirectional rails unless you know exactly what you're doing" that is one of the setups that comes to mind @deft lichen

And you're just.. gifting it to people 😭

[deft lichen]

I was just thinking if this is some extra elaborate way of deterring people from using bidirectional tracks 😂

[oblique hollow]

btw, doesnt that one have the danger of locking up?

if one train wants to go where the other is in right now

[median heath]

Yes.

[oblique hollow]

mine doesnt, if i remember right

theres always an open exit

[median heath]

Signaling the bidirectional part of Ondars is critical.

[wintry aurora]

Looks like a convulted way of doing dynamic pathing, in a way.

[deft lichen]

good point, it's assumed that trains won't go between stations built like this

alright, I think I understand the big junction now

it's effectively a truly universal junction between 3 bidirectional tracks

the directional split provides waiting room for trains

[wind spade]

@median heath I still don't understand why these are needed and why they can't just be removed 🤔

[median heath]

It can work without them.

Just, as I said:

What you're suggesting is build a dual-rail, signaled system with certain bidirectional aspects.
Which routes back to "just build a dual rail system"

[wind spade]

can't it deadlock with them tho?

[median heath]

The way McGalleon drew it? No.

[wind spade]

what's on the end of the bidirectional rail?

[median heath]

The station?

[wind spade]

then it doesn't need the signals at all?

[median heath]

Now I am confused.

[wind spade]

the bidi signals

they don't add anything there really

[median heath]

Did you miss this part:

It can work without them.

[wind spade]

then why put them there?

[median heath]

Whether you put them in or not is your choice.

If you're asking why some would and some wouldn't -- not my department 🤷‍♂️

[slender topaz]

hello, how many fuel generators (at 250% oc) i can run with a single refinery (150% oc), standard fuel, oil node ( not essential, 5 industrial fluid buffer's worth of backlog) (pipes mk2, if it helps), i don't really need math, just the ratio coz my current is 1:2, 15 refineries to 30 gens at oc said above, i need to increase power production by as much as possible without changing the original design of my base

[median heath]

Power isn't linear with OC. So you will get imprecise numbers if you OC generators right now.

[slender topaz]

i know

[median heath]

Change is being implemented in U7 to fix that.

[snow dove]

simply just don’t OC generators

[median heath]

*until U7

[snow dove]

problem solved

[slender topaz]

yeah don't play the game

problem solved

[median heath]

U7 hits Exp later this month. So it's entirely worth it to wait.

[slender topaz]

so can anyone please tell me if i can expand the current model?

[snow dove]

what? how did you get “don’t play the game” from “don’t utilize a system in the game which while is functional can cause issues and a major headache”

[slender topaz]

sorry

i don't need exact numbers

i need to increase power production n i don't care how little i'll gain

the problem is that design took me dozens of hours n i''m about to throw it out the window

[snow dove]

one 1 fuel gen at max clock uses 24.28225 fuel

divide the amount one refinery makes by that and you’ll have your answer

[slender topaz]

thank you good sir or lady

n please forgive my outburst earlier

[snow dove]

or a 1:4.63301382697 ratio

[snow dove]

all good

[slender topaz]

i'm just panicking, coz max cons jumped way about my estimate

[snow dove]

yeah it can be confusing

[slender topaz]

cons of making a megafactory on your first save

ooh

oooooo

if i oc them more i get increase the amount of gens

cheers!

[snow dove]

ghost ping…

[slender topaz]

sorry

didn't wanna bother you

[snow dove]

i mean either way i get the ping, what’s up?

[slender topaz]

but i guss i did anyway

100 fuel per min is 4 gens at max oc?

plus spare?

[snow dove]

with ~2.88 fuel extra yeah

[slender topaz]

won't mind it

thanks

[snow dove]

what it would cause is a refinery will turn off every now and then for a bit

[slender topaz]

yeah but in my design refineries that produce fuel for power are hidden two stories below main floor

what the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over

[snow dove]

whatever works for you

[frosty owl]

Now finally on Floor7: Uranium Fuel Rods production! https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/yl8qt6/i_finally_got_to_the_uranium_fuel_rods_floor_7by7/
How's that for compactness, @median heath 😏 (I didn't want to hide any belts, so everything but pipes can be seen)

[median heath]

Not bad.

[snow dove]

Beautiful

[frosty owl]

Ah, the beltwork is "clockwise". As in: items move clockwise around the room overall

[median heath]

It's interesting how when I'm trying to force myself to build more spaced out, you're working on compact 😂

[frosty owl]

I'm flattered by this unexpected compliment. Thank you 😳

[frosty owl]

I did "spaced out" in my Sushi Fuel Rods factory already. Not as much as I wanted, but I felt like I had too few examples of "compact sushi" and 5x5 challenges interested me, so...
It's surprisingly fun, though making 20-items-long sign lists for belts is very tedious

Like, imagine the sign list on the right here, but 3 times as big 🥲
For one belt

[fierce ruin]

umm, is there any way to have the same amount of resource going each line?

i have 3 line same production, but different usage

any way to send the same amount everywhere?

[fierce cypress]

A splitter?

[fierce ruin]

like split every line and merge them?

[fierce cypress]

You want to split 1 line into 3?

[deft lichen]

can you merge the three lines or not due to belt limits?

[fierce cypress]

Or 3 to 1?

[fierce ruin]

nope, i have 3 lines but each line has a different resource usage

[fierce cypress]

So you want to bring those 3 lines into 1 line?

Or just 3 to 3

[fierce ruin]

nope. i still want to have 3 lines but with each line balanced out

[fierce cypress]

I think what you’re asking for is a 3:3 load balancer

Yup

[fierce ruin]

yup i think so

[fierce cypress]

Here

[fierce ruin]

aaaa

Thank you bro 😄

im a new player to this type of balancing

[prisma sapphire]

Multiples of 3 in satisfactory are too easy

[median heath]

Manifolding is easier though 🤷‍♂️

Any balancer you need (to the person who deleted) you can literally google "Satisfactory <first number> to <second number> balancer"

[versed violet]

With note: Anything but plain multiples of 2 and 3 will be outrageously complicated for you.

[prisma sapphire]

Especially for balancers that require full throughput

[feral valve]

manifolds are easier but not always possible or preferable

for example, i have an input of a resource. 3 stations with a ratio of 60/30/10 and i want to have a buffer with 2 equal outputs. a 3/3 balancer is preferable to a manifold

ratio based on what output i need, not the item/minute

[wind spade]

in that case I'd build 3 lines with same ratio of consumption 🤷‍♂️

[feral valve]

nope because i need 2 lines only

[wind spade]

for what?

[feral valve]

oh, i said 3/3 balancer, sorry, meant 3/2 balancer

[wind spade]

then I'd merge 30 and 10 and build two lanes with 60/40 ratio of consumption 🤷‍♂️

[feral valve]

i can make a screenshot later to show, but i'm busy with something else now

but what i wanted to convey is that manifolds are not the be all all the time

[wind spade]

and I wanted to convey that unless you restrict yourself artificially with some rules, then you won't ever need a balancer

[vapid gorge]

Manifolds are easier and faster to set up and upgrade than load balancers and are as efficient.
You can have reasons outside of that of course but like greeny said, you never need them

[feral valve]

i know. around 99.9% of my setups are manifolds. but i don't swear by them. in the example i gave it was simpler for me to set up a balancer.
yes they are not easy to upgrade but in this case it never will be changed since the input and output will not change

also, load balancer look cooler than manifolds

[wind spade]

that's kinda subjective, I like the look of manifolds more

[vapid gorge]

pretty sure the simplest 1:3 split balancer requires more thought on placement and layout than just having 2 splitters in front of machines.

And yeah 'look cool' certain falls outside the basic factory needs.
I think circles look cool but most certainly doesn't benefit my factory mechanically.

[feral valve]

and yet people make factories with aesthetics

some even make buildings with no other purpose than to look nice

[vapid gorge]

That's our argument though what we're saying - it's an aesthetic thing.

[feral valve]

as i said, i don't think in the example i gave a manifold was preferable. not because of aesthetics but because of the way the containers would be filled if i used a manifold

i wanted a stable equal rate

[mint sedge]

Just wanted to acknowledge this as inspiration to get 4 fuel rod manufacturers onto a 5x5 foundation grid 🍻

[median heath]

Make sure you have a path out for overflow in case the game fucks up is all I will say.

Looks nice though.

[mint sedge]

Yes I plan to recycle those back around, with some provision for overflow
The cells are on their own set of 'dumb' splitters in the centre of the 4 manufacturers

[vapid gorge]

cycling them back around won't stop a clog, you'll need a sink.

[mint sedge]

I'll come up with something clever, that will take me two or three tries to get right

[torn valley]

is this a sensible thing to do? I have 6 inputs and 7 outputs, with 2850 throughput if thats important

[median heath]

What are you trying to accomplish?

Are you.. making a fluid balancer?

[torn valley]

basically split things up without handling exact numbers

yeah its probably a balancer, if it works that is

[median heath]

You should handle the exact numbers.

Also: Do not think about pipes in terms of belts.

[torn valley]

i don't think i am? I'm not really sure what else to do here

[median heath]

Work with the exact numbers instead of trying to make a massive balancer

If you need specific amounts to go one place before anything goes other places, use Variable Output Priority junctions (VOPs)

[torn valley]

I'll look if it works and if not I'll sort it out

[feral valve]

i said i will post a screenshot of what i was talking about earlier. here it is if anyone cares
i prefer this to a manifold

[ocean ivy]

Is this the most unnecessary large factory to produce encase steel beams or what? 😂

actually saying that, i'm quite new to the game and this is the biggest thing i've made ever

[feral valve]

don't worry, you will have to scale that up soon

[glacial hemlock]

Just make sure for any segment of pipe, their flow rate does not exceed pipe capacity. But this is really crazy, you could simplify that by splitting them into individual systems

[glacial hemlock]

Gonna pump these number up 10times. Good job btw

[bold crypt]

just wondering, how would i get my pipelines to stop having a fluctuating flow rate

[median heath]

Going to need more context.
Pretty sure I know what the issue is though.

[bold crypt]

my pipeline close to my power plant keeps having a flow rate that will go up to 600, then drop down to 0 then go back up to 600, and so on

[median heath]

Did you let the pipe completely fill before turning the thing it feeds on?

[bold crypt]

ye

i can try again tho

[median heath]

Is the pipe looped or does it come to a dead stop?

[bold crypt]

wdym

[median heath]

Does it come to a dead stop at the end of the pipe?

Screenshot of the end of the pipe?

[bold crypt]

the pipe just goes straight from my water pumps to my nuclear power plant

[median heath]

Screenshot helpful.

But I'm pretty sure the problem is slosh.

[bold crypt]

k

[median heath]

Water gets to the end of the pipe, if the reactor is full it can't go in, so it sloshes backwards which reduces the flowrate of the system.

[vapid gorge]

Depends if you care about non stuttering production.

If you do don't have any junction you don't HAVE to have. Like sev said if Point B needs X fluid have Point A send X volume. Tons of junction makes plenty of opportunities for backflow and stutter. If you don't want really smooth production don't worry about though

[bold crypt]

ok

[oblique hollow]

simply connecting as many consumers as one pipe supports would have sufficed

this balancing is more likely to result in weirdness and cause long filling times

[dense basin]

One of the quickest hacks i found for sloshing is to have a 1 or 2m vertical rise and fall, which forces the pipes prior to the rise to fill, and reduces backflow when machines taking from the system start and stop the flow

[frosty owl]

I have a feeling that feeding machines fluid from below leads to less sloshing issues

[wind spade]

from above*

[dense basin]

I tend to build from above. Beams 4m up are used to set pipe paths and positioning from the machines, just have to keep headlift in mind if you feed from too far above

That last bit of pipe is useful to act as a micro-buffer

[upbeat tide]

I also tend to build fluid input from above or at least same floor level

[noble timber]

Feeding from above is “better” but I prefer the look of feeding from the bottom

[oblique hollow]

if you can make it work: good

[frosty owl]

No. I meant what I said (and I said nothing about how well feeding from above does 🤷‍♂️)

If you feed from below, all prior pipes must be full, reducing backflow (or so I heard #math-and-meta message)

[median heath]

I have a counter argument to "path in, block out" mentality that I will type up at some point.

I don't think it is the best way to do intersections.

[tardy zealot]

if it works it works, no?

[median heath]

Yes that is a given. This channel is about finding what works better though.

[wind spade]

separated rails

[median heath]

True.
But in the context of what most people build, I believe just using blocks is better for intersections.

[wind spade]

well in context of what most people build, that would be roundabouts 😄

[vapid gorge]

ehhhh I seem to have MORE issue with it personaly xD

Possibly because it prioritizes passing fluid along the manifold rather than up the feed pipes

[median heath]

That's where Valves come in 🙂

[frosty owl]

Your piping work has a... Particular history

[vapid gorge]

valves make things worse 😛

And my pipe history is a lot cleaner now tyvm.

[median heath]

In bottom-fed systems?
It's the main place I use them.

[vapid gorge]

pic?

[median heath]

Uhhhh. That was last run 😦 I haven't made one yet this time around.

[vapid gorge]

Ah not critical.

[median heath]

I use them to force fluid amounts to stay where they are.

Like if I am shoving 600 down a line and the first block needs only 450, I will put a valve after the block set to 150 -- so the 450 is guaranteed to stay in the first block.

[vapid gorge]

I fiddled with something like that but wasn't working well. Settled with a vertically stacked manifold with the feed pipe fro mthe bottom

[median heath]

150 then goes forward and merges with more water.

[vapid gorge]

ahhh injections. Hates them.

[median heath]

Your choice.

[hollow juniper]

satisfying

4-6 balancer for my steel factory

[glacial hemlock]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Balancer
Have you tried belt compressor / decompressor?

[upbeat tide]

Im in the try to avoid needing to split/balance camp.

Preferred perfect ratio manifolds

[glacial hemlock]

He need 4 to 6 belt de-compressor. This page contains a section how to compress belt and he might need to build a reversed version

[frosty owl]

Meanwhile, someone totally didn't design a 789->0 throughput controller in steps by 10 (easily modifiable even to change precision)... Turns out it wasn't too complex and smaller than I thought too @ionic galleon

[frosty owl]

Don't have a picture at hand, but it's not too hard to imagine: one row of 3 smart splitters followed by mergers (main line) a row of splitters next to it and next to that a row of mergers (going backwards).
The last smart splitter takes 60/min off the main line to be split. Send whichever outputs you want to be merged back on the main line (eg: split in 2, then in 3 and you get 10/min outputs). This allows to get any possible throughput in steps of 10/min (more steps by adding more splitters), simply smart-splitting 60/120/240 and so on using the other smart splitters when you want to reduce the throughput by more than 60/min

Eg: a reduction of 350/min would equal: Smart-split 270+60, send 40/min of the split MK1 belt to the main output and be left with 350/min coming back

[lethal lantern]

do you guys just deal with irrational numbers or do you work around them?

[glacial hemlock]

Just round up and give zero care about it

Unless you are dealing with recycled product, that's when you have to check the underclock settings

[median heath]

45-81 rule eliminates them.

[lethal lantern]

never heard of it

[median heath]

Book incoming:

So the premise of the 45-81 rule is getting production in "clean numbers" with respect to clock speed.
As you may or may not know, the game enforces a 4 decimal limit on clock speeds (it does not care about parts per minute, nor does anything in the game actually operate on parts per minute, EVERYTHING is done in individual cycles with respect to clock speed for cycle time)

Example: if you tell a Smelter to do 20/min instead of 30/min, the clock % changes to 66.6666%.
The UI will say 20 ppm, but this is a lie to make you feel better about yourself. The machine truncates anything after xx.xxxx%, so you do not actually get 20/min, you get 66.6666% of 30 (which is 19.99998).
Now, to MOST people, this doesn't matter. But I am a stickler for precision, so not actually getting 20 bothers me (even though you'd literally see a production difference only after a couple hundred thousand cycles).

So the math was done to find out how to make production lines "behave", and the first thing we solved was the 81 part of the rule. With respect to Rubber/Plastic - always do them in multiples of 81 and all machines in the recycled loop automatically fall within the 4 decimal limit. No repeating numbers, no imprecision.
The 45 part of the rule applies to non-oil products. Do your final product amount in multiples of 45 and everything in the production chain automatically behaves without you needing to think about it.
Exceptions: Caterium Circuit Board, Pure Iron, Fine Concrete
(CtCB and PureFe usually outweigh the rule because you'll be doing them in such large quantities that they fine a common multiple somewhere up the chain.
No one should ever use Fine Concrete.)

Note: 45-81 is the lowest whole number multiple, but you can cut them in halves to achieve closer to your actual goals.
I.E. 45/22.5/11.25/5.625/2.8125, or 81/40.5/20.25/10.125 (going lower than 10.125 on oil causes issues)

So if you needed 100 Plastic, I would instead say to make 81+20.25=101.25

[wind spade]

it's just for people like Sev that are bothered that their production is 0.000001/min off

us normals that don't care about it (as the game isn't that precise anyway), we just round up the clock speed, so if you have 66.666 repeating, we do 66.6667% and the machine idles for a few seconds every hour (not a big deal really)

[glacial hemlock]

Didn't heard about 45-81, but i do always round up and it just works.

[median heath]

He asked about irrationals. I didn't randomly start this one 😭

[wind spade]

well yeah I answered the same question as you did 🤷‍♂️ just from the POV of "normal" person 😛

[lethal lantern]

i meant more for like when a refinery is set to 84.6243% speed but ill definitely think about the 45-81 rule

[median heath]

This isn't an irrational number though?

[lethal lantern]

its not very round either

[median heath]

If you want round numbers you're going to hate this game.

[oblique hollow]

84.6243 is probably a fraction of some kind

[near zenith]

846243/1000000 gottem

[lethal lantern]

something interesting i encountered with non round numbers is when i had to set a line of foundries to 98.7654% speed

[wind spade]

if it's exactly 84.6243%, then it's not a problem. If it's e.g. 84.62431853...%, then as I said, you can round up to 84.6244% and it'll work.

[lethal lantern]

in a calculator that number was 98.765432198 repeating

[oblique hollow]

an entire line? why not just one

[median heath]

Yellow lights on production machines are a sin against ADA.

[lethal lantern]

9 foundries

[near zenith]

if you want to really go ham, figure out what percents are perfectly representable in fp

[oblique hollow]

why all 9 foundries

you can also set just one

[lethal lantern]

to keep stuff even

[oblique hollow]

8,8888888 / 9 xd

closest is 80/81

[wind spade]

well you won't see these unless you watch the machine 24/7 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

just make it 98.7655% and it'll work

[lethal lantern]

it already does

[median heath]

It's not about what I see.
It's about what I know.

[oblique hollow]

i know nothing thus i never get upset

[wind spade]

~~which sounds like a you issue 😛 ~~

[oblique hollow]

i just forget all my factories

and live in ignorant bliss

[median heath]

Not an issue because I follow 45-81.

[wind spade]

you follow a rule you made because of a restriction you made 🤷‍♂️ still sounds like you're just doing extra work because of yourself 😛

[oblique hollow]

its the Sev Principle

even if it technically doesnt matter, it matters emotionally 😛

and mathematically i guess

since it is a mathematical thing

numbers technically dont matter, but the math says they do

[median heath]

😭

[upbeat tide]

One thing I have noticed is that this game is alot easier to deal with if you max productions out at 600 items a min or 480. The machinery ratio usually is much cleaner and no strange decimals

[frosty owl]

Non-playing normal person

[frosty owl]

Outputting like that also makes things easy for sushi 😉
Eg: you have >180/min free throughput for any extra output you may want (or will want) from that factory, without adding output belts

[glacial hemlock]

i just prefer to max up all input belt to 780/min to save headache. The output belt i am fine with less than full belt (which will then be compressed before going to the train)

[wind spade]

the headache is then to keep the input belts single-segmented 😛

[frosty owl]

Or be a "normal"(?) player and don't care

[ivory thicket]

but that throughput...

[glacial hemlock]

single segment? not sure what you mean. belt can be single segment if it is less than 56 meters, or more segments if longer

[wind spade]

mk5 belts lose max throughput over belt to belt connections, so having full mk5 belt for longer than one segment means you're getting less than 780/min

(and you can belt-weld to make a segment longer than 56 meters)

so that's why I said that you need to keep maxed belts single-segmented, otherwise you're losing throughput

[glacial hemlock]

how to belt weld?

[wind spade]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/x09nhg/beltwelding_a_brief_video_guide/

[tawdry sail]

Is there a way to from a MK5 full belt get a MK1 Line of 30 or 15 items per min without sink anything or using it in any recipe?

[wind spade]

uh, what are you asking about? do you want so split it into belts of 30/15 ?

[tawdry sail]

i want get a single line of 30 items per min, or 15

without using the other 700..

[wind spade]

so you want to split 780 into e.g. 750 and 30?

[tawdry sail]

No

[wind spade]

so you want to limit a belt to 15/min? that's not possible

[tawdry sail]

And.. in this case?

[wind spade]

what is your usecase for this? why do you need just 15/30? that may help me understand better what you want

[tawdry sail]

I have a sushi belt that goes for my storage area with a max of 15 items/min of each item in the game.
I was wondering if i can just join 15 items of another random item that is travelling in a belt of 780/min. I am not using currently the 780 items/min so overflow will give me like 60/min everytime

[wind spade]

if you have just 15/min items on some belt, you can just use a merger to join it

[tawdry sail]

Yeah but my idea is get a 15/min belt from a 780/min belt no matter if i am using/sinking the other 765

[wind spade]

well yeah you need to use the sink if you have more than 15

then you can use a smart splitter from 780 belt to a mk1 belt, which gives you 60/min. Then smart split again to 30/min and again to 15/min. Merge all the overflows from all the smart splitters and put those into sink. You'll be left with 15/min

[tawdry sail]

Yeah i come to that solution. But i was wonder if i could do it without sinking, but yes, i think that is not possible.

[wind spade]

it's not possible, as soon as you have more than 15/min, the items need to go somewhere

[glacial hemlock]

great! let me try it and i will add it to wiki

@frosty owl oh it's you discovered the belt welding

[frosty owl]

Nope.
I just discuss/post a lot about it

[frosty owl]

Load Balancing can achieve that.
Split 60 off, split it in 4, merge 3 of these back with the initial line with some priority merging

[magic island]

I think the concern was that if the main belt backs up, the split-off belt will start getting more and start delivering the full 60

it can only continue to deliver 15 if the main belt is continuously consumed/sunk

[ocean ivy]

I've got a slight issue with my refineries where I am trying to maximise my output and get all the 2nd layer refineries to take in 40 polymer resin per minute. The coloured lines are my original idea of pipe work with each colour having an excess of 10 resin left in the pipes. My thinking is that the black lines are pipes connecting the sections to use up the excess. Ask if you need anymore information but will this work?

working with pipe lines is not my strong suit 🙂

[tawdry sail]

But satisfactory doesn't have a priority merging 🧐

[upbeat tide]

You dont use pipes for poly resin its a solid item.

Looks like residual rubber?

And by chance have mk5 belts yet? Or mk4

[ocean ivy]

Ah i feel stupid haha, yeah it's residual rubber and i'm only on mk4 belts currently

wait, mk3*

[upbeat tide]

Ok then split it in half. Two feed left side two feed right

Oh

Why not just make rubber the usual way?

[upbeat tide]

Ok then your setup will work as is just dont connect the three sets. Its pointless really

The black line I mean

[ocean ivy]

using the standard rubber recipe from oil will make less rubber. I wanted to increase my rubber output with the other recipe

[upbeat tide]

Yea just did the numbers myself I get what your doing

But yea you will have 10 left over you could maybe merge it but would be tricky.

Actually do you have smart splitters yet?

[ocean ivy]

I do

thinking of overflowing the system before its active and flowing the excess over to 1 refinery?

[upbeat tide]

You could put one before you split to the three and set to overclow

Yes maybe could work

[ocean ivy]

Something like this, where the black squares are smart splitters and the line is the belt?

[upbeat tide]

Yes but you cant have two inputs on a splitter, so the two outside ones would merge into the center black line somewhere

[ocean ivy]

I got you

[frosty owl]

If you place mergers on line A and splitters on line B and connect the mergers with the splitters so that you output from the final merger, line A will have lower priority (the more mergers/splitters, the more priority)
I say you'd have to do priority merging because trying to 45/min with the incoming 60/min would result in both sides stuttering; you only want the 60/min to back up

[tawdry sail]

Mmm i think that i am not understanding that. Can you draw it?

(This become more like a logical problem that something useful but is fun)

[frosty owl]

Let me do a quick sketch

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/558721941410807812/895367470733475851/Screenshot20211006-19300800000.png

The orange mergers are placed on outgoing lines from a station. The splitters on incoming lines from the factory (overflow that needs to be put back in the loop to keep the belts flowing)
The effect is that the lines going from the station back up, while the ones coming from the factory can fill up the belts (each merger gives them half more priority)

Same for the yellow mergers, it's the same thing, just different destinations after this room

Is this clearer, @tawdry sail?

[frosty owl]

'bout half my playtime in a nutshell 👆

[tawdry sail]

I dont think so.. maybe a i am stupid.
Maybe with numbers i would realize, but i dont see it

[frosty owl]

If you're up for it, I can share a save where you see it in action. Pretty self-explanatory once you see it, but I don't have a video on it

I might be able to find something on YouTube

[frosty owl]

~3:00 you can see it in action. 2 containers are being used as the inputs, the expected result is having one of them output with priority over the other
https://youtu.be/q4WCHx1W0KY

[median heath]

Still rarely if ever a need to even build this.

[frosty owl]

Wrong answer(?)

[vapid gorge]

Honestly? I'd just change the clock on some refineries to take in dif amounts if at all possible. It's much simpler

[fierce ruin]

is there any way to calculate how long do you need to build your hyper cannon to get to the area that i want?

[median heath]

Trial and error is your option there unfortunately.

[fierce ruin]

:/

[near zenith]

dont forget to save before you launch

[fierce ruin]

yeye, i already learnt that the hard way

[near zenith]

it's truly a rite of passage to hypercannon yourself up, through, and out of the map

[median heath]

Heh, something I never have done and never will do.

😂

[near zenith]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Tutorial:Hypertube_cannon

[median heath]

All of my hypers are point-to-point.

[near zenith]

technically mine are also... but i boost the entrance speeds so much i move faster than the load times and phase through the walls when i screw up

[fierce ruin]

cant wait to see how many tries do i need before shooting myself to the oil field

[median heath]

Those seem too close together imo.

[fierce ruin]

yeye ik

[near zenith]

yea, space the entrances by at least a support each

[fierce ruin]

chill 😄

[near zenith]

time to go find out what it's like to be a bird, have fun

[fierce ruin]

yeye

thx imma be back

well i didnt even fly to my closest miner with this boy

[near zenith]

the only reasonable course of action is to double it and see what happens

[fierce ruin]

YES

[median heath]

1. These still look too close imo.
2. Delete the support on the end.

Kill this

[fierce ruin]

done

[median heath]

!wikisearch hypercannon

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=hypercannon

[fierce ruin]

didnt get me any further :C

[median heath]

@fierce ruin

[fierce ruin]

imma see what i can do

like this?

[median heath]

See how on the outline I have you all the entrances have a short section of pipe from them?

See how none of yours have pipe?

[fierce ruin]

aaaa

yea now i see

HOLE SHET

[median heath]

Welcome to the hypercannon club.

[fierce ruin]

yeah. thx 😄

[wind spade]

now let's wait for devs to remove it

[fierce ruin]

yep

[cinder silo]

Devs removing cannons would be one trigger for me to actually save editing to create teleports instead of cannons 🤷‍♂️ (in a new save because my current crashes scim hard)

[median heath]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[wind spade]

well I'd like to see it replaced with more reliable and balanced mechanic 🤷‍♂️

[cinder silo]

Ripping out my map wide cannon network would be an enormous pain in the rear. so I'd just have to mess with the system to force it to work if nerfed.

[wind spade]

well you're the one relying on unintended mechanics 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

preps sympathy basket for when they put in the cave biomes

[cinder silo]

Naa I usually work around nerfs.

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure having your tunnels clip through a ton of stuff would be a nerf xD

I doubt it'll happen but it's something I'd like to see, like also having a largish island (bigger than paradise to connect infractructure back and forth

[cinder silo]

It's these things I'm more concerned about, crossing the map in seconds, I prefer the in-game build for fast travel, not the save edited method of teleport that just don't feel right.

[vapid gorge]

I mean it's not the worst thing in the world to get up from the comp and get a drink if you have to travel to anothe rhub for a couple min

[cinder silo]

I guess, my normal tunnel network tubes do that, six minutes instead of thirteen seconds though.

[wind spade]

@charred oxide

[vapid gorge]

I'm vaguely surprised any increase in iron ore was needed for that tbh

[wind spade]

what increase?

[median heath]

I think he means using Pure/Alloy.

[vapid gorge]

as in extending the iron ore with alloy recipe

And then of course we turn all those steel ingots into iron rods -> screws as your fav recipe right greeny? 😛

[wind spade]

that is everyone's fav recipe 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Steel Rod is such a good alt.

[vapid gorge]

xD

[median heath]

Using it for Frames

[wind spade]

we're not joking tho

[vapid gorge]

I know I know it's very iron efficient

[wind spade]

and you can even use it for other things than screws

[vapid gorge]

yeah was looking at it for possible changes in my HMF plan but it doesn't reduce the coal needs enough that I don't still need to import some anyway. And I just ... happen to not use rods elsewhere

I think it's screws, rotors and frames (other than buildables) and I don't use screws, I use a dif rotor recipe and the steeled frame recipe is convenient

[wind spade]

copper rotor plz

[maiden cave]

anyone know which plutonium fuel rod recipe is more efficient, I don't care how many machines it will take i am just running out of most recourses near my factory

just by taking a quick look it seems like the alternate recipe (plutonium fuel unit) would be better

[median heath]

If you're sinking the rods, use the base recipes all across the Plutonium line.
If you're planning to use them for some reason, use the alt for Rods.

[maiden cave]

whats the difference between the two when it comes to sinking them

[median heath]

You want to use less resources if you're sinking.

PCC's are expensive.
And you're using only 20 Cells per Rod.
You want to use the Base recipe so you use more Cells per Rod.

The goal when sinking isn't to make the most Rods. It's to get rid of the waste.
So you use the recipes that cost the most nuclear stuff per output to get rid of the waste in the most efficient manner possible.

[maiden cave]

gotcha

ill do that then, thank you

[median heath]

Getting the most Rods costs a ridiculous amount of aluminium.

[fierce prawn]

I assume there is enough water in the world to use the Pure alt recipes for all metals?

[median heath]

Yes.

There are millions of Water/min available.

[fierce cypress]

there is basically infinite water

[fierce prawn]

so I assume it is the best way to make bars, right?

[median heath]

Best is subjective.

Best way to make Caterium? Yes.

Copper/Iron? Subjective.

[fierce prawn]

most resource efficient

[median heath]

Purely from that metric it's Pure Copper and Iron Alloy.

[fierce cypress]

they have a higher input:output ratio at the cost of more power and using water

[fierce prawn]

what makes alloy superior?

[median heath]

Conversion rate.

Iron Ore to Iron Ingot conversion rate is higher on Alloy.

[fierce prawn]

but doesnt that cost copper? water is basically free?

[median heath]

So?
You're trying to make Iron.
Only reason you'd add Copper is if you had it available and weren't doing anything else with it.

[fierce prawn]

im tryna minmax everything here

every node in the map

[median heath]

There is 70k iron on the map.
You're going to be fine no matter what choice you make.

[fierce prawn]

thats not the point

[median heath]

ok..................

So then accept the answer I gave you.

Also your computer will fail before you minmax every node on the map.
Just saying.

[fierce cypress]

its not really possible to minmax everything, for multiple things you always need to prioritise x over y

hence the subjective answer

[vapid gorge]

Also you're computer will die before you succeed with that

[vital oyster]

Aluminum scrap water output is confusing me

I swear I'm doing the math right

but the pipes still overflow

and that stops production

I have the following setup:

2 water extractors -- produces 192 water / min
2 refineries for sloppy alumina -- consumes 480 water / min
3 refineries for alumina scrap -- produces 288 water / min

The pipes overflow with water. What am I doing wrong?

The pipes are not connected to anything else, just the localized aluminum production

I tried underclocking the water extractors to 190 water / min and placing a valve to limit flow from the refineries back to the input

It still overflows??? That isn't mathematically possible, so where is this water coming from?

Is this a known issue or am I fucking something up real bad?

[median heath]

Did you build a VIP junction for recycling?

[vital oyster]

I have no idea what that is

I just used a single valve

[median heath]

Green = Recycled.
Blue = Fresh.

[vital oyster]

But it should go without saying that mathematically the pipes should not overflow when the production is not fast enough to do so

[median heath]

Textbook example:

[vital oyster]

I see, so that's how you prioritize fluid input from one pipe over another?

[median heath]

Yes.

[vital oyster]

I assume the top pipe is the priority?

[median heath]

??????????????????

[vital oyster]

lmao

gravity???

[median heath]

Pressure???

[vital oyster]

so the bottom pipe is priority?

[median heath]

Pressure keeps priority in the bottom pipe by not allowing the top one to input.

[median heath]

You read my first image right?
Where Green = Recycled.

[vital oyster]

okay that's some weird ass real life physics I had no idea about

oh sorry didn't look too deep into it yet

[median heath]

...

[vital oyster]

At least that's easy to build, thanks!

[median heath]

I'm guessing the problem with your setup was a) assumes continuous flow and b) valves.

[vital oyster]

just don't understand how < 480 / min exceeds 480 / min

[median heath]

Valves.

[vital oyster]

it was confusing the shit out of me, and still does honestly, but I'll just pretend that never happened and install a VIP valve

[median heath]

VIP junction*

[vital oyster]

^ thanks!

[median heath]

Are you... trying to push 480 through a mk1?

[vital oyster]

no they're different rates

[median heath]

👍

[vital oyster]

480 combined but the production and recycled are both < 300

well shit, what if somehow that doesn't work?

I'm gonna upgrade all the pipes to mk 2 and see if somehow it is fixed xD

I believe in the junction solution but I'm curious now

Oh, the physics make sense to me now that I really think about it. Gravity pulls the higher fluids downward, applying force in both directions from the pipe junction, so those forces neutralize. However, there is still a force (pressure) coming from one side of the lower fluids (the byproduct water being created by the refineries), so the net force follows the lower pipeline.

That's probably incorrect logic, but it works for me 😂

Or maybe it's because if the higher fluids were prioritized instead, then what'd happen is the lower pipe would overflow, and that's where pressure actually comes in. I suck at physics 🙄

I think I might actually get T/F questions wrong more than half of the time with physics

[edgy fjord]

how to get smart at satisfactory?

[vital oyster]

I just watched videos of people playing it and you'll see all sorts of things they do to optimize things and make things look pretty

[frosty owl]

@wind spade First time I'm using the manifold fill time tool and here's a complaint: I wish there was a setting to calculate the fill time for the whole manifold, not just the full time of "all but the last two machines".
Example: if I feed this set of machines x items/min, after how long can I expect overflow from the input belt?

[frosty owl]

Just don't try to apply the (wonky) game's fluid-logic in real life

[frosty owl]

Do sushi.
You'll have to learn everything just doing that

[edgy fjord]

What is

Sushi

[frosty owl]

A sushi belt is a belt carrying more than one kind of item

This can open up many possibilities in logistics and different designs

Does anyone know (or remember a link to a related convo) wether using MK3 and MK1 outputs for a splitter being fed 240/min does always assure a split of 60-180? ||Assuming input doesn't fall behind||

I think I remember that the MK1 belt should get a bit less than 60/min but I can't quite recall why and the convo around it...

[vital oyster]

@median heath I used the VIP junction and it didn't FICSIT. But that was when I found a glitched pipe. Got no idea how it got there. The recycled water wasn't flowing back to the input. Now everything seems to be working. Finally 😄

And this explains how the underflow was causing an overflow

[magic island]

the splitter will try to give both outputs half, which will generally result in the mk1 being filled to capacity and the other getting the rest

but if the input is "choppy" and there are occasional gaps, that can mean the mk1 belt actually gets less than 60 because there's moments where there's nothing to give it

[frosty owl]

I didn't consider an irregular (but still 240/min on average) input, thanks for pointing that out!my question still stands though 🤔

[vital oyster]

Why not use a merger to merge two of the outputs?

[frosty owl]

Tbf, not even smart or programmable splitters can always safely protect against choppy inputs :/
Eg: try full up a MK1 belt from a MK5 with Pure Iron Ingots on it... No matter what rules you set, the gaps in ingots are so big that the 3-items buffer aviable doesn't suffice to keep the MK1 belt full

[sand epoch]

When trying to max a belt out with irregular flow i always preceed it with a storage container and only tap overflow before the container.

It requires a full container to work, but it does work.

[frosty owl]

Sorry, was that question directed at me/my convo?

[sonic wasp]

any way with scim or others to see remaining nodes at a glance, to see how big I can make the final stage of the space elevator?

[frosty owl]

Load your save files into SCIM, the remaining nodes will be the ones without a miner on them

[sonic wasp]

or do I just start counting them

[frosty owl]

Alternative: load savefile on SCIM, open the statistics and check the raw inputs used. Compare those to map limits

[twilit prawn]

Hey ppl! Just finished a oil rig in my new save with the intention of storing the fuel, rubber and plastic. I now need to make a computer factory and was looking for some advice as I didnt want to use up the plastic from the rig. Should I be aiming to make excess (20/m) or just keep it simple with 1 or 2 manufactures?

computers

[frosty owl]

Simple is best for starters. Less to regret once you notice your mistakes and/or change output goal

[twilit prawn]

Yeah that's fair. ty

[sonic wasp]

you'd need about 100/m plastic for one manufacturer making computers

[twilit prawn]

Yeah its kinda chunky that's why I didn't want to go to crazy

[sonic wasp]

Any idea where I can find a list of the max resources?

[frosty owl]

SFTools, input list of the calculator

[frosty owl]

Actually posting it so I can refetence it later:
Map limits from SFTools

[sonic wasp]

ok that is able to be way bigger than I thought

I'm at 2160 iron/m currently

[frosty owl]

Heh... Cute
||When compared to map limit||

[sonic wasp]

I recently built a 30 reactor setup

looks small now

[sonic wasp]

8,8,2,2 ratio

maybe take a month

[glacial hemlock]

30 reactor is quite impressive. Which alts you used for the uranium fuel?

[wind spade]

Technically instantly, as it doesn't do smart splitters

[placid lichen]

wait a minute,
i can't put this number in beacuse its too specific.
will the fact that i have 1 digit less and cant put one more change my efficency?

[wind spade]

wdym by "have 1 digit less"?

[placid lichen]

433.33 instead of 433.333

tools shows i gotta do 433.333

but that is not possible

[wind spade]

but you're not limited to two digits

that's just what the game shows (and it's rounded number)

tools also show a rounded number, just to 3 digits

this seems to be 433.33333333 repeating

[placid lichen]

oh

okay

[wind spade]

which is indeed not possible to achieve, but you can do nearest higher clock speed number

which is 90.2778% clock speed

(for a miner that does 480)

aka mk3 pure

[oblique hollow]

just pick a different target number for aluminum ingots

then that issue vanishes entirely

433.333 just so happens to be a third of 1300/min

500/min could also yield nice numbers

[upbeat tide]

So now my nuclear plant is fully operational, can decomission my past turbo fuel plant. Will reclaim 1200 sulfur. Gonna make that into some nice batteries! I think anyway.

[glacial hemlock]

Nice

[upbeat tide]

Tbh dunno when/if Im gonna build the plutonium power. Maybe once I get to 500GW of continuous production

[fierce ruin]

living up to your name tag, I see... I'm at 75GW on my best save 😛

[fierce ruin]

hey, what is the difference between turbo fuel and normal fuel?

[frosty owl]

Ingredients and burning time per fuel unit

[median heath]

Burn time and color

[fierce ruin]

so no power difference?

[median heath]

...

If it burns slower it can supply more generators with the same amount.
Meaning more power.

[fierce ruin]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

i see

[median heath]

Still not worth making imo.

[glacial hemlock]

i can't see the case where you will reach 500GW uranium and yet still need to add plutonium. Only when you already have Uranium + Plutonium in mind when you first build the nuclear setup. (max sink point setup only consumes 540GW)

[upbeat tide]

Yea I already have a plutonium setup to make me 22.4 a min plut rods. Its currently being sunk tho. Map-wide max consumption atm is 230GW but avg is only 130 atm

[fierce ruin]

what's the max sink setup? phase 4 parts?

[glacial hemlock]

yes. and the actual item rate to achieve max sink is at AWESOME Shop wiki page

@fierce ruin

[glacial hemlock]

can't see a reason to sink Pluto

[median heath]

Waste-free nuclear is a reason to sink Pluto

[upbeat tide]

Well, as of now anyway havent built the 224 nuke reactors to consume said pluto. So yea needs to be sunk at least for now to keep the uranium nukes from piping up waste

And yea not dealing with the waste is cool

[glacial hemlock]

Waste is pretty easy to deal with, just send them to one of the sky corner.

At 2km far they cant really hurt you

[upbeat tide]

Not when you fill up 5 container slots a minute 🙂

2520 uranium waste a min is alot

[glacial hemlock]

I mean, after you converted them into plutonium and burnt these.

[upbeat tide]

Oh for sure

Yea 224 a min is far more managable

[thorny heron]

You can also just do 434/min if you're fine with having a little bit extra bauxite

[fierce ruin]

Hey is there a way to make a priority conveyor belt?

[wind spade]

smart splitter

[fierce ruin]

Umm, can you PLEASE explain?

[wind spade]

unlock smart splitter, it has overflow/priority settings

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Smart_Splitter

[fierce ruin]

Hmm, i'l look into it. Thank you :D

[pseudo prawn]

Does anyone have any good layout/setups for aluminium?

[wind spade]

you can use online tools in pins or in #welcome to make some layouts

they do the math for you and you just have to place the buildings 🙂

[median heath]

Build your factory.
Not someone else's.

[pseudo prawn]

helpful...

[deft lichen]

are you looking for numbers or a floor layout?

production calculators can give you all the numbers using the alt recipes you have

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[median heath]

Numbers was encapsulated in greeny's reply.
I was attempting to answer the actual layout question. 😦

[wind spade]

I mean... you asked a very generic question, it's impossible to answer it without more information

[vapid gorge]

Bauxite to refinery - solution to refinery - loop the waste water back in and scrap to foundries/smelters

[mint scarab]

is this the right build for splitting 5 items p/m to 4 and 1

like left side should get 4 items p/m and top 1 p/m

[median heath]

You can do a 4/1 split with a single splitter.

[mint scarab]

huh

[median heath]

One side needs 1 and the other needs 4, right?

[mint scarab]

yes

[median heath]

Send 5. Split in half, 2.5 each way.
2.5 > 1 so eventually this side fills.
After which it is capable of taking only 1, shoving the other 1.5 to the other side.
Perfect 4:1 split

[mint scarab]

ty

[magic island]

here's a very tidy aluminum plant with a li'l power surplus and no deadlock issues. can retrofit it into an old 8:3 coal plant, too

you can get more resource-efficiency using electrode or (later) instant scrap, but the clean ratios and simplicity are pretty nice with this one

[median heath]

Do you not have Electrode?

[magic island]

yeah, but the ratios come out different and I haven't bothered diagramming them yet.

also, with electrode I would probably spend the byproduct water on diluted fuel rather than coal gens, so it turns into a bit of a different concept overall

[median heath]

Sloppy + Electrode is tied for "best" aluminium line.

Water is simple, just recycle it back into the line with a VIP junction.

[magic island]

the goal was to design a tidy system with no deadlocking, by using the coal and byproduct for generators. and the numbers came out rather pleasingly

building for max resource efficiency or setting up loop-backs with VIPs are also solutions, but they are different solutions that aren't what I was solving for

[median heath]

Fair.

[shy coral]

Do the gaps do anything here? I place my cannons super close together

[median heath]

If you place them closer and it works for you 👍

[fluid mist]

@median heath I'm thinking of using this alt

[median heath]

If you want to use it, use it.
No one is going to play the game for you.

[fluid mist]

Fair

[glacial hemlock]

Or use u6 satisfactory tools to decide for you

[sonic wasp]

no alts, the alts just look plain worse and more time consuming #screenshots message

[vital oyster]

I actually just used that recipe yesterday

It seems to be decent as long as your crystal oscillator production is good.

One thing's for sure, the OC supercomputer alt, that one's bad.

[sonic wasp]

best alts are the sloppy alumina and pure alu ingot I've found

[fierce cypress]

alts are subjective

[oblique hollow]

pure alu is only good if you don't really need alu

[grim crane]

when i have 3 belts with various outputs, can i just split them into 9 mk3 belts, and then merge them in a weird way, do they then balance each other?

when the system overflows

so like the belts fill up because more production then usage, they should overflow and balance each other right?

[fierce cypress]

3:3 balancer, yes

[grim crane]

ok

then my spaghettie should work, looks like that just in spaghettie

[glacial hemlock]

Balancer can be easier to build if you just let the belts to clip everywhere

[glacial hemlock]

No alts? Even more impressive

[snow dove]

balancers are rarely easier than manifolds

[oblique hollow]

1:1 machine superiority, no manifolds or balancers

[grim crane]

no

[grim crane]

true

[upbeat tide]

Thats how in part my non-fissle material setup is. But its 2:1.

1 nitric acid to 2 non-fissle

[tawdry sail]

YES

[cinder sun]

What's a balancer

Or a manifold

Never used one

[glacial hemlock]

balancer is branching like tree, while manifold is like the intake / exhaust pipe on the engine. More on wiki

[median heath]

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[hardy phoenix]

buncha nurds

[wind spade]

ok?

[upbeat tide]

Speaking of nerding, currently making plans for another 1800 plastic plant to feed a battery factory

[glacial hemlock]

uh, you mean 1800/min plastic plant, or 1800 plastic plants?

[upbeat tide]

Lol yea guess can see that.

1800/a min plastic output one facility