math-and-meta

[thick plank]

We are currently talking about the last case

Time to fill is dependent on the. Argo stack size

AKA the inventory

[finite sun]

the last case is "min"/"min" x "items/min"

[wind spade]

all of the red ones are without "/min". The blue one is the only one which is "/min"

[wintry aurora]

But they’re different contextes

[wind spade]

there's never any division of /min numbers

[thick plank]

As previous,y stated, the argument was untrue

[wind spade]

just the resulting number is in unit "items/min"

[thick plank]

!

[finite sun]

no, it's not.

[thick plank]

THE ARGUMENT i brought in regards to the /min squared was untrue

[wind spade]

sorry, wrong paste, here's better one

[thick plank]

But I brought forward a different argument

[finite sun]

okay, I think it's nigh time for me to stop as well
but I believe in greeny

[thick plank]

My argument in the moment is in response to following statement:

#math-and-meta message

That in the formula laid out you are using cargo size/time, not delivery rate/time

Imma go off

F. I have a meeting in 4 hours and havnt slept yet

[wind spade]

cargo size/time is literally "items/min". delivery rate/time is something weird, as it's "items/min^2"

[thick plank]

That was my original statement. Bravo!

[wintry aurora]

Maybe the equation needs to be clarified?

[wind spade]

equation is correct as it doesn't mention any units

so all of the variables in the equation are pure numbers without units

(and the resulting throughput variable is to be assumed as "items/min" obviously)

[wind spade]

still don't see it anywhere in the wiki page

[finite sun]

one certainly can add units, but it won't improve anything
and would be just harder to read

[wind spade]

indeed

[barren elm]

So I was like, surely this is nonsense, gotta see it with my own eyes to believe it

Made a quick and dirty rail setup

And then became aware of the rather bizarre design choice to have inputs STOP while a train is loading...

[vapid gorge]

XD

[wintry aurora]

Considering that it literally removes the inventory, there’s good reason for that.

[vapid gorge]

Yup that's why you set up a train buffer at both stations

[median heath]

How would they continue given that the container is floating in the air?

[barren elm]

Are we really applying logic here when the container itself is just magicked out of thin air

[wintry aurora]

No it isn’t.

[vapid gorge]

... there's an arm that picks it up

with a giant claw

[median heath]

Mechanically, train lockouts are part of what keep them balanced in the tiers of logistical options.

[vapid gorge]

Like the God of Logistics coming down to move your crap

[wintry aurora]

I suppose they technically could keep it moving, but unlike the instant swap of the truck station, the time interval could cause problems.

[barren elm]

I meant more "train station A delivers cargo container to train station B, and after a delivery train station A just automagically creates a new cargo container"

[wintry aurora]

Or they could ignore the time interval.

[vapid gorge]

The new container is brought up from below 🙂

[median heath]

If trains didn't have a lockout timer they truly would be the end-all, be-all of logistics.
And trucks would be irrelevant.

[vapid gorge]

more irrelevant

😛

[median heath]

...

Hater.

[vapid gorge]

It's true

[barren elm]

I mean, trains don't entertain you with a silly dance every time they try to turn around

[wintry aurora]

The truck station does the same thing, just a smaller container.

[median heath]

Why are your trucks dancing?

[wintry aurora]

Probably because they tried turning around awkwardly while recording?

[barren elm]

You tell me

[median heath]

Does the route run INTO the station for some reason?

[wintry aurora]

That’s just the explorer physics being dumb.

[barren elm]

Yeah they're so bouncy

I love it

[median heath]

No, it looks like the next arrow is tangent to the station instead of parallel.

Which is the issue.

[barren elm]

Oh that's a different explorer's route

[median heath]

This should be where the next node is.

[wintry aurora]

Why is that explorer there then? Lol

[barren elm]

There's 2 of em

[wintry aurora]

And ah, slow down while recording, might help.

[median heath]

I feel like your trucking issues have to do with how you set it up.
Which, as with 99% of all trucking issues currently, falls under "user error".

[wintry aurora]

And they’re really bouncy in the dunes, explorer might not be the best for there.

[barren elm]

Got in it to show the path nodes

[median heath]

What's the approach angle?

[barren elm]

Like 90 degrees

[median heath]

That's the issue.

[barren elm]

For the record I've got no problem with this, it runs fine, it's just entertaining

[median heath]

The part of the route that goes under the station should be entirely parallel.
Tangents on approach or exit cause issues with "dancing".

[barren elm]

Honestly super impressed with vehicles, they were a disaster in update 3 when I last played

Is a full vehicle base possible or is there some upper limit where the game starts to die?

[median heath]

It's possible if routed properly.

[wintry aurora]

Depends on the system really.

[barren elm]

So it takes a full 26 seconds between when a train station's inputs are halted, and when they resume

Possibly 25

[wind spade]

27.08s

[barren elm]

Man I had delusions of making a full train based factory but that really changes things

[vapid gorge]

as in everything is moved between buildings with very short trains?

[barren elm]

Yeah, though now I'm thinking it'd be better with very long trains with lots of buffer platforms

[vapid gorge]

Sorry can't imagine what you're describing

[barren elm]

Like say I wanted to import 8 full belts of iron ore, that could be solved with 4 train platforms and 1-4 trains, if not for the input halting during loading/unloading

[wind spade]

why not use 8 platforms if you have 8 belts?

[barren elm]

Yeah that was where I was going, double sized trains

[wind spade]

full belts are problematic anyway

[vapid gorge]

ah right yeah. You can do more than 1 node per car if you calculate it but I err on the safe side and go 1 belt 1 car

[vapid gorge]

depends what you want though. Simpler logistics? smelt and machine that iron into fewer parts before shipping

[wintry aurora]

There was someone who did something like that though, not quite full train based, but very extensively. It took lots of meticulous planning and little room for error though.

[barren elm]

Yeah I've spent days on it so far, it is mostly a vanity project, I know it's not efficient

[wintry aurora]

This may have been before U5 though, I forget.

[vapid gorge]

doesn't have to be efficient. Just something you like to do

What I build is unneeded silliness. But I enjoy it 🙂

[wintry aurora]

Yea, they were trying to be as efficient as possible, but maybe that’s what they liked to do.

[vivid imp]

Dropping some infos about radar towers (i covered the map, see #screenshots )

At a good height, you need to have a space of 247 foundations (diameter being somewhere between 492 and 496 meters) between two of them to have nice circles almost not touching each other
I needed something like 27 radar towers to cover all the map, maybe you can have a smaller number depending of what you consider is a beautiful pattern (or even if you need one)

[small kayak]

Good to know the diameter in foundations👍
I like to place them on some scenic mountains and/or on top of an extra elevation platform that is full of signs to use as landmarks for orientation.
Also looking good at the top of some factories.

[zinc grove]

Hi all. I'm new here. Just getting back into the game after a hiatus since the fluids update. I wanted to create a plan for the "perfect" factory before I set off. To do so, I created a spreadsheet to do all the thinking for me!

Things to note: The solver I used was OpenSolver. Only mess with the GREEN cells. If you would like any guidance on how to use it, feel free to DM. I might even modify it to give it some instruction and a UI in the future. I am not great at Excel, so if you would like to modify it to improve it, be my guest!

[wind spade]

hi, I can't get it to work. I've tried to change the green cells but nothing happened

also, are you aware that there are existing online tools that can do this? 🙂

[zinc grove]

you need to use a solver. there is a default solver, but it cant handle more than 200 variables, so i had to use a 3rd party solver called OpenSolver. it is an add-in for excel and allows you to calculate optimal solutions. Once you have added it, it should appear on your DATA tab in Excel

[wind spade]

I'm on linux, using libreoffice

[zinc grove]

like what? i didnt search hard? i did this for fun mostly

[wind spade]

yeah I'm just asking, because there's often people that want to make one, not realising there are existing ones 😉

nobody stops you from making a calculator, just if you want an existing one, there are some of them in pins here or in #welcome

[zinc grove]

Great work btw 🙂

yeah i wanted to add more constraints than those. like a bit of backpressure, some power safety factors etc.

also, some interesting things happen when you weight the outputs (to use in maximising the objective function) as their ticket value

[strong saffron]

Crude oil directly to fuel gen?

[zinc grove]

aye what?

[median heath]

No

[wind spade]

weighting them as point value is... very similar to just weighting raw resources based on their relative amount

since point value is (for base recipes) sum of ingredients * 2

[zinc grove]

haha thats cool. i didnt know that

[strong saffron]

But, and hear me out, I loaded into my old world and that’s what I saw

And it works

[median heath]

Sure 👍

[wind spade]

like a bit of backpressure
not sure what do you mean by that 🤔

[zinc grove]

loading the machines in a way that the input is a fraction higher than the desired output. i always build my factories this way. particularly with fluids involved

if its a 1:1 ratio recipe, load the machine with 1.001 items for any 1 given output

and i chucked a provision in there for power too, always generating more power than you actually need. user defined.

[oblique hollow]

seems a bit unnecessary

[wind spade]

if 1:1 is not working, you have some issue with your pipes/belts

[oblique hollow]

there USED to be a pipe issue where that was kinda needed but thats fixed

[zinc grove]

oh right, yeah i havent played since just after the fluids update! im still playing with the mentality that the pipes need to be overfull to work properly

[oblique hollow]

they do not anymore

[zinc grove]

nice!

ok, ill remove that haha

[frosty owl]

Embrace the 1:1

[median heath]

Embrace the sushi.

[latent wedge]

Found this (and a few more) in a Steam guide called "Some Plans." It was done in Excel, so I also did it in Excel and it's extremely useful.

Here's a link to that guide for any visual learners like me.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2676516137

I replicated the "Basic Vanilla Plant" with a couple changes:

1. Steel is removed (because I built it on four Iron nodes and didn't have a nearby coal node),
2. A machine list and parts list is included on each, so you know exactly how many miners/smelters/constructors you'll have to build (to plan for space) and exactly how many of each recipe item you'll need (excluding belts, foundations, and power cables),
3. A "legend" worksheet is included to explain how everything is labeled, and
4. The Vanilla Plant is broken down into three separate plans for just Reinforced Plate, just Rotors, and Mod Frames (a combination of both).

If you're interested, I can send you the .xlsx via DMs

[radiant lance]

this guide seems to have a little bit of gall saying that recipes without alts are optimal, cast screws for example are a straight upgrade of regular screws

[wintry aurora]

Subjective guide is subjective.

[median heath]

True.
Though they only matter until you get access to both steel alts.

[median heath]

Reddit usually is 😂

[vocal tundra]

TRUE

[wintry aurora]

They technically are since you’re skipping a step.

[radiant lance]

wdym?

[wintry aurora]

It removes rods from the recipe, thus ‘skipping a step’.

[median heath]

I think you read it wrong.

[radiant lance]

yea i was saying the same

[median heath]

The guide says use base.
Des is saying Cast > Base.

[wintry aurora]

Oh, I didn’t actually read it.

[median heath]

Fair.

[naive ingot]

In y'all's opinion, which is better, Cast Screws+Bolted Plates or Iron Wire+Stitched Plates?

[oblique hollow]

normal wire + stitched
i hate iron wire

its ugly

[median heath]

Not Bolted Plates.

[wind spade]

define better

[wintry aurora]

Steel screw and bolted plate would be better if you insist on using bolted.

[copper quail]

i get this kind of weird ass bug on train.. i think it started after U6.. I can literally stand with the train RIGHT next to the station with NO SIGNALS on the rail system i have. The train is a Push Pull train so it can go to the station.. But the station also have a turnaround.. But the train goes away from it... I think there is something wrong now with push pull trains ... PS:: the train turn around the first way back turnaround it get.

[oblique hollow]

what kind of turnaround

[wintry aurora]

I’m confused, could you show a screenshot of the problem area?

[deft lichen]

in U3, loading a save with a bidirectional train in range would sometimes cause the train to start moving in the opposite direction but still try to reach the station it was going to

decide if you want a bidirectional train with dead ends, or a forward-moving train with loops at each end

[naive ingot]

More efficient if all you have in an area is iron.

[copper quail]

Yeah i was now running witht he train to see how it goes.. it went back.. then the first turnaround it could make it went back correct..

[wintry aurora]

As Ondar said, loops make double headed trains confused.

[naive ingot]

It seems like Stitched Plates is most iron efficient, but Bolted Plates seems more power efficient.

[copper quail]

yeah.. thx @deft lichen

[wind spade]

So, resource efficiency?

[median heath]

If power is a factor in your decision-making, you're building power wrong.

[wind spade]

Then stitched > normal > bolted

[barren elm]

Whole rail system is forced to be LHD correct?

I'm not missing something here or reading out of date info?

[river night]

its up to you, although the signals only snap to one side so it might feel odd

[wintry aurora]

Um, no, you can do either one?

[river night]

actually the signals snap to the side that makes RHD more natural to me

but other then the signals always being on the same side, its entirely up to you

[median heath]

Signals snap to RHD, but you can make the rails in whatever orientation you wish.

[barren elm]

Alright good to know, swear I read somewhere that it was locked to LHD

[wintry aurora]

Whoever said that is wrong.

[wind spade]

the signals snap to the side that makes LHD more natural

LHD = traffic on right side

[median heath]

Huh?

[river night]

well, train drivers sit in the middle, so stop using silly terms that dont apply 😛

and yes, i was thinking the train drives on the left

[wind spade]

LHD = Left Hand Driving (driver on the left side, traffic on the right side)
LHT = Left Hand Traffic (traffic on the left side, driver on the right side)

[median heath]

Google disagrees.

[wind spade]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-_and_right-hand_traffic

[median heath]

If you specifically look at LHT I suspect you get that result.
But if you google "left hand drive" or "countries with left hand drive" You get the list of all nations where the cars are on the left.

[river night]

now that it was mentioned i'm pretty sure its right, i just blanked out on the confusion for a moment because i didnt even think about driver side in a train

if i google for left hand drive, i get the definition as the first hit, which says steering on the left

🤷

[wind spade]

I got the same result for both

[wind spade]

yeah it's more for road traffic, but the definitions should apply anyway, otherwise it would be super confusing if you're talking about one or another

driving on the left != left hand driving

[river night]

either way the answer still stands, signals always snap to the right side of a track, but its entirely up to you which direction you have trains going down your tracks, you might not even have two tracks next to each other, and if you do, the game does not really favor one or the other - other then having signals on the right. which on RHD stacks them oddly in the middle, but people still build that way and thats fine 🤷

[wintry aurora]

I thought RHD was on the right and LHD is on the left.

Either way, it only matters that you be consistent.

[wind spade]

RHD = LHT = traffic sticking to the left side
LHD = RHT = traffic sticking to the right side

I know it's confusing, but it's like that 🤷‍♂️

[versed violet]

Is this the bug where train will absolutely insist that the head loco is the one at the station, even taking a way across the map to reorient itself?
I noticed one like this with two headed train - if it goes backward to reach the station, and there is loop available, the train will arivve at the station with the rear loco, then immediatelly depart, turn around at the loop and arrive at the same station again, but this time the 'right way around'. Color the locos to see which is which.

[round osprey]

anyone have a good video or design for a giant mall

my last attempt was pretty messy and got backed up

i like this but i feel that if you have to separate your mats before as to not overload the main belt

[barren elm]

Using smart splitters for that mall feels like adding a lot of complication and failure points for little to no gain

[round osprey]

guess i could have a mk3 feeding these with basic mats, but id have to keep a rough estimate on the amount of items going onto it

oh i know smart splitters ofc

im prolly just overthinking this

my last mall was like 3-5 belts merging into 1 that would be feeding every container, it backed up for obvious reasons

[barren elm]

Personally I like to just have a "floor" of containers (with walkways) and use the icon signs to tell what's in them

[round osprey]

would look cool

ima overthink this some more

[radiant lance]

I'd be interested to know what you mean by that because all shopping mall designs I know of use smart splitters in some way

[barren elm]

The design they linked looks like it feeds excess product onto a second belt (sink belt?)

If that belt gets full the whole thing stops working

[round osprey]

oh that diagram

[radiant lance]

definitely a sink belt but it wouldn't get full because it goes to a sink

[round osprey]

its from a reddit post 1 sec

would be like that

[radiant lance]

the only issue would be if it goes past 780/m but I think it's just a case of not overloading with materials

[round osprey]

sends the overflow to a sink belt

[round osprey]

yeah thats what i think i just need to avoid

keep tabs on the amount of mats going into the place as not to back it up

[barren elm]

Right, that's what I meant by points of failure

[radiant lance]

but what's the other option? building an awesome sink for every individual item? just letting them fill and then production stops?

[wind spade]

move every product to storage and overflow rest to sink

[frosty owl]

Sushi go brrr :)

[median heath]

@round osprey if you're using ISCs you can have a 2-belt system meaning your limit is 1560.

[round osprey]

Isc?

[cinder silo]

The big cans you toss stuff in to.

[median heath]

!wikisearch Acronyms

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Acronyms

[cinder silo]

Sometimes mate you show more patience than I do 😛

[median heath]

😁

[naive ingot]

My brain will always process ISC as "interplanetary standard currency" from EVE Online.

[cinder silo]

Eve though was Isk!

[naive ingot]

It was?

[cinder silo]

Yep.

[naive ingot]

Then what did it stand for? Oh man, my memory is slipping.

[cinder silo]

Never knew, so lazy screencap off eve uni 😛

[naive ingot]

Huh, the K stands for "Kredits"... Guess it's the kind of linguistic drift expected in the timeframe of that game.

[cinder silo]

A play on the icelandic krona afik.

[naive ingot]

Fair though I managed to drift us way off topic again.

[static jackal]

Convergence math is beautiful! (1/31)

[wind spade]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[frosty owl]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/xs4p0a/please_help_me_make_sense_of_this_how_can_water/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Have you checked this out already, @oblique hollow ?

[thorn bane]

when i tested a headlift based system by just having the fresh water pump 20 meters down it didnt work cause the headlift "mixes" but maybe its different with a pump

[thin carbon]

realistically how much packed fuel do i need to automate (for personal use)?
same question for riffle ammo and potentially nobelisks ?

[wind spade]

realistically zero

practically depends on how much you use [things that use packaged fuel / ammo]

[thorn bane]

one packager so 40/min has always worked for me

[thin carbon]

fair enough

THX

now i was thinking of selling off the overflow so that that line is used all the time so i am sure that my spagetty works ( my power depends on plastic production.....)

[vapid gorge]

I mean.. if you really want to load balance, but that looks painful

[finite sun]

personal resource drain is completely negligible except for hazmat filters (the only item that might see constant prolonged usage)

[thorn bane]

jetpack?

[finite sun]

still negligible

you don't fly constantly

[thorn bane]

idk i feel like its not
by that logic everything is negligible
you dont build constantly

[finite sun]

so even extremely slow production like 0.1/m will eventually catch up

[thorn bane]

yes so will 0.1/min for everything else
just finish the space elevator in 1000h
just wait 20h to build a constructor

[finite sun]

well yes, in fact it is

the only difference is when you want something right now

[thorn bane]

yes
so unless you wanna wait an hour everytime you wanna fly
build 40/min xD

[finite sun]

requirements for achieving "right now" may be pretty different from "not running out of items for personal use"

[thin carbon]

i didnt automate those yet why do they need so many resources?

[finite sun]

nah, provided you made some small buffer (~2 stacks) of fuel, the realistic drain rate for one player constantly using jetpack for speed and such and constantly travelling (not building) is still about 20/m at most, probably even less

[vapid gorge]

It also depends how lazy you are. What I've done in the past is hooked up 1 machine for basic things like ammo and nobs just working until the container fills and them going silent after.

[finite sun]

and since you still typically build and not just run around map constantly, even 20/m is very generous

[thorn bane]

well it depends on how much you fly
i dont know that about him so i made an upper estimate of 40/min

[vapid gorge]

20pm is very generous

Especially if you leave a container for it so that it handles spikes in use

[thin carbon]

well with a smart spliter i can be sure ill get some, THX
and man those ioniseing filters look hard to make

[vapid gorge]

Nah once you tech up it's not much of an issue

You don't burn through them much anyway.

[finite sun]

max consumption rate for one player is only 5/m
and that's relevant only if your base is entirely in max radiation area somehow
in absolute most cases, 1 manufacturer running at 100% is enough for filters.

[thorn bane]

@oblique hollow @frosty owl
thoughts about this alu setup
i feel like its optimal and doesnt rely on wonky fluid mechanics like the VIP

[oblique hollow]

it sure is a possibility

is based on the classic method of seperating fresh and old water

in this case though i dunno if the overflow is useful

[thorn bane]

but ive never seen it with a smart splitter
this way it actually prioritizes recycled water over fresh water because the fresh water refineries shut down if theres extra water in the system

this is assuming that you have some production overhead
so i guess people that dont like yellow lights might hate it

[oblique hollow]

if theres too much water then the bauxite backs up

but it backs up all the way so the fresh refineries dont have less all of a sudden

[vapid gorge]

hmm never seen that

[oblique hollow]

i suggest you make a tiny test build to work out any logic flaws

[thorn bane]

no you have an excess of recycled refineries
usually they are capped by water so they only work at 90% capacity

if it full with water its goes to 100% stealing bauxite from the fresh water refineries

its easier ti imagine if you just think of like 50 refineries each

the left is idling cause no bauxite right is idling cause no water

if theres excess water then more of the right refineries turn on

[oblique hollow]

what if too much solution

[thorn bane]

idk dont think its a problem though
could just 1 to 1 connect the solution

[oblique hollow]

test setup seems mandatory here. if it works at small scale it should work at large scale too

[thorn bane]

well if extra solution -> extra water -> only the recycled water refineries work -> no fresh water -> net negative water system

[oblique hollow]

i cannot work out all the possible reactions in my head so i cannot judge it any further. test it

[thorn bane]

this is from my old EXP U6 playthrough

its been working since i build it but i only played 38h on that save so its not "extensive" testing

its probably run for atleast 10h though

[vapid gorge]

no stuttering?

[thorn bane]

left refinery is capped by bauxite as intended

right refinery is capped by water as intended

no no stuttering

[wind spade]

one could read this as you stuttering

[vapid gorge]

I'll have to pick your brain about this in a few months for my next set up. If it's a working idea it might save some complexity

[oblique hollow]

reminds me of this, but with smart splitters and overbuilding recycling refineries

[thorn bane]

ye the issue with that system that i always had was that theres no way to get the water out of the system

but it seems like the smart splitter does that job

[oblique hollow]

if water is in its in indeed. worst case i would use an overflow to a coal gen, thats it

otherwise this should work fine

[finite sun]

the thing with smart splitters scheme is that it'll work in cycles

1. normal refining backs up
2. some time passes
3. excess refining starts and unblocks normal refining

#2 is pure inefficiency

[thorn bane]

how is it inefficient?
either part A works or part B works
but something is always working

[oblique hollow]

i guess its a concern with startup times, but the same applies to mine above

[finite sun]

yes, and switching between A and B is not instantaneous

[oblique hollow]

the only difference is how both react to backing up on scrap and then getting cleared

[thorn bane]

hm i could test that
but then again you can always overflow sink scrap

[oblique hollow]

... actually i think they both lock in that case

ye. i think thats needed

cuz if not: backs up on solution > backs up on water

= deadlock

[thorn bane]

ops wrong reply

[thorn bane]

well thats the case for all systems right?

[oblique hollow]

i think some systems dont suffer from that issue

but i would have to take a small aluminum dive to work that out again

[thorn bane]

for example if the VIP is fully full then it still wont work cause the water isnt getting out

[oblique hollow]

but i think thats the crux of alu: if it backs up you are fugged

its a very sensitive process

[thorn bane]

well its easily fixable by an overflow scrap sink

*or alu sink

[oblique hollow]

ye, thats the point; they may not stop working

you gotta make aluminum safe else theres trouble....
now i have a meme idea

[vapid gorge]

I look forward to it XD

[finite sun]

hmm, okay, just looked through the schematic carefully: if smart splitter -> refinery belts are short/fast (both of them), then delays would be minimal
if not, then substantial

[thorn bane]

https://i.imgur.com/CgWPddk.mp4

ye in my example they switch super fast

[vernal depot]

how did you fly?

[thorn bane]

hoverpack

[barren elm]

Did you know rails also activate the hover pack? Literally can't imagine playing without it anymore

[vocal tundra]

Yeah its a pretty cool feature

[wintry aurora]

Wait, rails conduct power for the hover pack? That’s new to me.

[vocal tundra]

Yeah

[wintry aurora]

Oh you mean TRAIN rails, I thought you meant HAND rails, NVM

[vocal tundra]

Lmao

[wintry aurora]

Morning moment.

But yea, it’s great that hoverpack works with train rails.

[barren elm]

lmao pretty sure powered hand rails would be an OSHA violation

[wintry aurora]

True.

[median heath]

#TeamJetpack 🤷‍♂️

[vocal tundra]

Hi sev

[median heath]

But my way of building and maneuvering was established long before the Hoverpack was added to the game.
So for those who enjoy it - love that they added it for you.

[barren elm]

Why would you not just carry both

[vocal tundra]

Most people do

I only use the hoverpack to build under things

I still take it everywhere

[wintry aurora]

I’ve never even used the jetpack, like ever, not sure why, just didn’t.

[vocal tundra]

You should

[barren elm]

It's great for slug/hard drive collecting

[vocal tundra]

I prefer parkour for that

[wintry aurora]

I prefer using foundations for exploring and doing that (and ISCs), but that’s just me.

[barren elm]

I mean, like above, why not both?

It seems so weird to pick & choose which tools to make use of when you can have them all

[vocal tundra]

Like i said, most people carry both

[harsh elm]

my smoothbrain has a question.
I usually split off ores from the source to smelters, and then send ingots into constructors etc. The goods from constructors are going into storage containers. From those containers I am sending things out to assemblers as needed. It is getting noodly.
Is it a good practice to send all ores from smelters into storage and divy out ingots for jobs from there?
In case of relevance I am on the final bits of Phase 2 (waiting for automated wiring to be made and belted in) and I am in the Pine biome. The latest I've played into is oil/fuel/plastics and a single train to ship oil/fuel (phase 4 I think?)

this is the bulk of my spaghet

[wintry aurora]

There’s no point in storing ores. Just merge ore belts as needed and upgrade belts.

Re noodle though: People often hide the spaghetti under floors or above ceilings, it’s a common practice.

[median heath]

I have both. I just have Jetpack equipped 90%+ of the time.
Even when building.
It's a very rare occasion when I equip the Hoverpack 🤷‍♂️

[harsh elm]

what about storing ingots?

[wintry aurora]

If you need a buffer for whatever reason, sure, but there’s no point in doing that, just produce as needed.

Though if you’re making an ingot factory and transporting the ingots elsewhere, that’s a different thing.

[harsh elm]

thanks for your input 🙂

[median heath]

I can give you the storage list if you want.

[harsh elm]

sure, that sounds helpful!

[median heath]

Non-consumable items worth storing:

Plate, RIP, Beam, EIB
Pipe, Rod, ECR
CSheet, ASheet, Plastic, Rubber
Frame, HMF, FMF
Wire, QW, Cable
Crystal, Osc
CB, HSC, AIL
Rotor, Stator, Motor, Turbo
Comp, RCU, Super
Casing, Cooling
Concrete, Silica

33 in total.

[wintry aurora]

in my opinion, I wouldn’t have stator in there.

[vocal tundra]

Power storage?

[wintry aurora]

Just grab off of whatever you’re producing.

[vocal tundra]

No that can mess up production lines

[wintry aurora]

I guess I could, I’ve got some spare ISCs in the mall.

My total in the mall is like 41 or something, but that includes the weapon stuff and filters.

[median heath]

You and I do production differently. Grabbing Stators like that would cause lines to stall out in my world.

[wintry aurora]

Everything else in there I do have.

[wintry aurora]

Yea, normally on a non-sushi mall, it would just be whatever stacked up, but I probably can’t here, though depends on whether the assembler is underclocked

I’m thinking of rebuilding the mall over in DD though so that both parts can be integrated. Plus I might make some recipe changes, I dunno.

[median heath]

I was scoping a place in the NF out that is more central for mine.

[oblique hollow]

i also steal from production because im too lazy to split off resources for storage

[median heath]

🤔

[lunar stag]

Question: eight car train with an engine at either end

[oblique hollow]

yes? what about it

[lunar stag]

Am I getting the full motor output of both engines

[oblique hollow]

yes

!wikisearch electric+locomotive

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=electric+locomotive

[lunar stag]

Now I know fluid cars behave differently, will that affect my train configuration?

[oblique hollow]

they act the same as normal freight cars

wdym "behave differently"

[median heath]

Only thing different about their operation is the buffers need to have a special junction setup that freight doesn't have to deal with if you want consistent throughput.

[lunar stag]

Hmm. Seems them having different behaviors loaded and unloaded was a bug that got patched, my bad

[forest plinth]

dumb question, but how do i evenly split 1 conveyor belt into 7?

[median heath]

Manifold

!wikisearch Manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Manifold

[median heath]

@forest plinth

[forest plinth]

thanks :)

[vapid gorge]

Are stators used for anything other than the next line of production?

oh I guess power storage.

Probably enough to just keep 1 container on hand and not think about them again

OH SORRY. wouldn't have stators in there

[median heath]

Stators make the list because of Power Storages.
Circuit Boards make the list because of Signals.

There are a couple things on there used only in 1 building.

[vapid gorge]

I'm also assuming the list is post having unlocked everything. I like having buffers of every part until then

[median heath]

But they are used for building, so they make the list 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Well every part that is then built until higher tier

[finite sun]

the difference with stators and CBs is that one normal box is typically more than enough
not even a 48-slots one, much less several
Well, unless you're building something crazy like a megabattery

[median heath]

True.
What you decide to keep in ISCs and what you keep in regulars is entirely up to you.

I.E. I have QW and Wire stored in regulars as they stack to 500.

[finite sun]

ye, stack size is important
blowing full 24 slots of wire on something is unlikely

on the other hand, spending 48 slots of HMFs relatively fast is very possible

[median heath]

Indeed.

But when you store them at 45/minute... 😉

[finite sun]

meh, the most I routed to storage was like 30/m (one game), and even that was an effort best spent elsewhere

nowadays I don't usually do more than 9 before the fuel power, and 3-6 afterwards

[ember fractal]

I had plan to make 64 HMF / min

It's still just a plan

[vapid gorge]

the way addaptive control units and fused frames use them up 64 will get chewed up

[summer fox]

so i`ve got a belt of 660 pm and a belt of 420 pm and i need to spilt 375 is there any way of doing it. i have like a double manifold and a 1/2 set up meaning i have 10 assemblers on one side and 20 on the other

[vapid gorge]

use a manifold and clock the machines to consume the right numbers you need and it'll self balance

of if you don't want to do that from the Source of the incoming material only merge 375 from the start and merge the rest seperately

[summer fox]

if i used the 420 belt for the 375 side then put the remaining 45 into the longer side by a merger that would also work out fine wouldnt it?

[vapid gorge]

yeah that's using a manifold to over flow what's not being used on the 375 side

Depending on the set up you might want a smart splitter set to overflow the otherside

[vapid gorge]

you could also just NOT split the 420 and after the manifold that uses 375 keep the belt going to where the extra is needed

[ember fractal]

Fused frames yah, I don't care about adaptive control units lol, they're not very useful

[vapid gorge]

they're needed for final phase space parts and depending on updates maybe even further tier space parts.
I also have a goal of automating phase 4 parts

[finite sun]

oh yeah, making HMFs in other production chains is another thing entirely, you'll end up having a lot of those
but making them for storage doesn't need to be overblown

[static jackal]

I just realised I didn't have to do this...

[wind spade]

yeah never balance pipes

(it doesn't work anyway)

[finite sun]

it would, if you add valves everywhere and set proper rates
but there's also absolutely no reason to do so

[wind spade]

no, valves are wonky and don't always work as expected

[finite sun]

if you follow the basic rule (input flow must be equal to sum of output flows) and let the entire system fill up fully - it'll work exactly as expected
but still would be totally pointless

[wind spade]

valves usually rate-limit by percentage, not by amount

if your pipe is 50% full and you set valve to 50% pipe capacity, you get 25% flow

[finite sun]

yes, hence "let the entire system fill up fully" part.

[wind spade]

if you fill entire system, why would you have valves there then?

[finite sun]

yes, hence "but still would be totally pointless" part.

[static jackal]

Does this work? Cuz I'm filling up the entire thing...

[finite sun]

you can use one less pipe even

[static jackal]

Nah. 3 looks more fancy

OMG no way! It's actually working. No more biofuel finally

[wind spade]

balancers 🤢

[static jackal]

I like it when the graph is a straight line and not bent.. (jk this doesn't imply anything)

🏳️‍🌈

[finite sun]

that doesn't have anything to do with balancers/manifolds choice

if you don't want manifold-feeded systems to "flicker" for quite some time, you simply prefill them before turning on. That's it.

[static jackal]

meh. I like seeing everything smooth

[finite sun]

it will be

[thick plank]

Honestly

Manifolds/overflows are way easyer and work just as well

[median heath]

He likes his builds taking more space than they have to 🤷‍♂️

[finite sun]

not like we're strapped for space
but adding/removing machines from balancers is utterly painful

[median heath]

Indeed.

[thick plank]

But hey, I guess loadbalancers are quite fun to build, especially when you have strange relations. Cause then its actually complicated

[static jackal]

Ye. I don't like seeing it overflow even though it doesn't make a difference.

[finite sun]

they're quite fun to build, for the first time and maybe second time

[static jackal]

If it overflows, wouldn't it mean you have wasted power like if the coal mine is producing too much?

[median heath]

No

[thick plank]

Yup. I tried to wrap my head around basically a universal design, basically a splitter that splits into a tenth perfectly, but didnt find a way

[finite sun]

well, hopefully you'll like balancing 57 parts to 39 parts
because when trying to balance everything you will run in such problems in future

[static jackal]

That makes sense and I will enjoy it 😖 👍

I find it more aesthetically pleasing with load balancers lol

Like, you can admire it more yk

[finite sun]

we'll see about that when you'd have to build a balancer consisting of half a hundred mergers/splitters and taking up about quarter of your factory space

balancers are nice to look at, but they scale horribly, especially if you need splits that aren't divisible by 3s or 2s

[barren elm]

Holy shit what

Why?

[median heath]

Because that's how they are coded.

[barren elm]

Is that intended?

[median heath]

Yes.

[finite sun]

probably intended
but not very useful in practice
hard-limited valves would be more useful in SF

[median heath]

Two ways around it:

1. Stop using Valves when you really don't need to.
2. Keep your pipes full.

[finite sun]

#1 also means that in absolute most situations you don't need valves
and even in those rare situations you'd be using mostly fully open (or fully closed) valves

[barren elm]

Did you just say it's intended and then the recommended advice for valve was "don't"?

Man this explains so much...

[finite sun]

there's no contradiction here

valves work in some way, there were many reports about them should be working differently (and CSS didn't react much), and also valves work "realistically", e.g. it's pretty close to how they behave in reality

[median heath]

They are useful in specific scenarios that most people never build.

[barren elm]

I thought I could use them to feed water back into production but yeah, whoops

It kept needing to be adjusted every so often and I guess that's why

[median heath]

VIP junctions don't need valves.

VOP junctions do.

And looping water back in is a VIP.

[thick plank]

Btw you guys. Do you know a design for a 1:10 balancer?

[ember fractal]

Look up manifold

[thick plank]

I use them all the time. Just for fun, cause with a 1:10 balancer you can modularily make any split possible

Or to be more precise: every split from less inputs to more outputs

[median heath]

Splitter that goes into x2 1:5 balancers.

[thick plank]

So splitter with two outputs, per output one splitter with two outputs, per output splitter with three outputs, a total of 2 outputs loop back into the beginning? Thx

[past cedar]

brain hurts, split 1 belt into 10 'equally' ... 6 is easy, 9 is easy ... 10 is making my head hurt

'equally' being whatever keyword you all use to say it evenly spreads parts on all the branches ... the same ... cause like a 'manifold' bunches up the first and slowly trickles out to the last

[small kayak]

Not exactly what you wanted, but maybe a place to start from

[thick plank]

Thx

[gloomy palm]

useful

i guess that would be used in a balancer system, but if you use a manifold you can avoid that right?

[wintry aurora]

Manifold ejectors work fine, just need to make sure your math is right.

[gloomy palm]

as in, your output demand shouldn't exceed your input supply?

in the straight manifold

[wintry aurora]

Yea, just need to make sure you are actually splitting in the right place for the smart splitter to split off enough, I’ve had to adjust the location before.

@gloomy palm Manifold ejectors are also useful when you have a long manifold and have lots of stuff coming off of it, especially if the manifold total exceeds the belt limit.

[gloomy palm]

what is the reason to use an injected manifold?

[median heath]

Belt limitations.

[wintry aurora]

It’s my own term for putting a smart splitter along a manifold and splitting off of it.

[wind spade]

I'd always prefer multiple manifolds over injected/ejected manifolds

[median heath]

Injected is more useful for sushi tbh.

[wintry aurora]

Manifold ejector is literally the opposite of the injector.

[gloomy palm]

what is sushi

[wind spade]

well I don't like sushi so 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Mixed item belts.

[gloomy palm]

with smart splitters?

[median heath]

Yes.

[gloomy palm]

isn't that considered bad for overhead

[median heath]

How?

[wintry aurora]

Or programmable, but that’s more niche.

[gloomy palm]

you can't max out a belt with one kind of item

[median heath]

So?

[gloomy palm]

i guess the sushi would be more useful in a place where you don't need the maximum belt capacity for one item

[wintry aurora]

Uh, yes you can, miners for one.

[finite sun]

why would you even want, for instance, max a belt with HMFs?

[gloomy palm]

sorry, i meant in the sushi setup

[median heath]

How many recipes do you currently use that need 780/min of a single item?

[wintry aurora]

Fair then.

[gloomy palm]

hmm

[finite sun]

sushi simply saves on belts, splitters, and visual clutter

[gloomy palm]

depends if you have many buildings and want to manifold to all of them

[median heath]

Break those buildings into units based on belt capacity.

[wintry aurora]

I could see automated wiring doing that easy, but I don’t think that’s your point.

[gloomy palm]

if you merge two belts together of 780 of two different items, effectively you've made each item 390ppm

[finite sun]

and yeah, production that needs very different amounts of components doesn't respond terribly well to belt-mixing

[wintry aurora]

Well yea, 780*2 exceeds itself.

[median heath]

This is 10 HMF Manufacturers running at 100% on a single belt.

If you need more, built another one. This is what I mean by "units"

[wintry aurora]

That’s why you put a sink at the end, which is only needed for spool up, or you don’t intend to run the factory 24/7

[gloomy palm]

does the game require more computations when using smart or programmable splitters?

[wintry aurora]

Not that I know of.

[gloomy palm]

is there any specific reason not to use sushi?

assuming you set it up according to your building inputs

[median heath]

Another example of using 3 "units" to make Stitched Plates.

[wintry aurora]

I’m not the sushi master here though.

[gloomy palm]

technically speaking your entire factory could be hooked up to a single input belt and single output belt, since you'd have the ability to sort and split things as they come in and go out

[median heath]

Nope. We have copy/paste splitter settings now.
So there is no reason.

[finite sun]

I mean, if you use a recipe that takes 100 of one part and 1 of the other, you'd want your mixed belt to mix them in relatively the same-ish proportion (doesn't need to be precise), which will take quite some effort

unless you're making input parts in the same ratio on the spot

[median heath]

Sushi actually gives more use for Balancers tbh.

[wintry aurora]

It should balance out regardless though.

[finite sun]

how?

[gloomy palm]

so long as the belt items don't 'block' the output for a part you need down the line

unless there are priorities for mergers

[wintry aurora]

Because manifolds?

[finite sun]

it will work due to moving everything unused to the sink, yes

but why would it "balance out" just by itself?

[gloomy palm]

would it make sense to have a merger input priority setting? if an item exists at the input 1, prefer it over an item at input 2

[wintry aurora]

Won’t that clog it up?

It also doesn’t sound different from smart splitter function.

[gloomy palm]

it's interrupting input 2 because you want input 1 item

it would guarantee that when input 1 item reaches the merger, it's always gonna pass through immediately so long as the output is clear

[gloomy palm]

so essentially i'm suggesting a smart merger

the only use case i can think of is for sushi manifolding

[median heath]

We don't need priority mergers on belts.

[gloomy palm]

really?

[median heath]

Sushi Manifold is my primary build method, trust me.

[gloomy palm]

ah

[median heath]

I use smarts more than regular splitters in my world.

Smarts is what is tied to my hotbar.

[wintry aurora]

I haven’t done sushi with large ratios of items like 100 of one to one of the other, so, I don’t have personal experience in building it like that.

[gloomy palm]

would a merger benefit from some mechanics adjustment to help with the sushi manifolding world?

[wintry aurora]

But logic states that it should balance itself.

[median heath]

It's not needed at all.
They operate perfectly with what we have available.

[gloomy palm]

ah I see

[median heath]

It gives you a reason to build balancers in some cases, which is a nice change of pace tbh.

Balancing items before merging them onto sushi belts to be manifolded.

[gloomy palm]

would balancing inputs after being sushi'd work?

[median heath]

You can do that, but it's trickier and not worth the effort tbh.

[gloomy palm]

ah i see

[median heath]

For high-volume items like QW you just use an injection manifold.

[gloomy palm]

i think i may subscribe to the sushi manifolding method simply because i dont fancy rebuilding thousands of belts in my new world

QW

[median heath]

Run everything except the QW on a sushi belt, and have a belt just for QW above it, injecting where necessary.

!wikisearch Acronyms

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Acronyms

[gloomy palm]

error QW not found

*Did you mean QC? *

[wintry aurora]

Quickwire cable is an alt of cable though.

[gloomy palm]

:\

[median heath]

Quickwire

[gloomy palm]

😐 oh

[median heath]

QW Cable is an alt as James pointed out.

Like QW Stators.

[gloomy palm]

QW is not in the acronyms list

[wintry aurora]

It could use adding, yea.

[gloomy palm]

yea

[median heath]

@deft lichen

😁

[gloomy palm]

i've posted it to wiki channel

[wintry aurora]

We have a wiki channel?

[gloomy palm]

indeed

ask a mod to add the role to you

[median heath]

Yeah, but reading the Acronyms is helpful otherwise you'll be lost when you read the storage list 😂

[wintry aurora]

Oh

[gloomy palm]

it's connected with the translators role

if you have knowledge of a second language and would like to help translate satisfactory into it

you'd be more than welcome to help

[median heath]

Translate the game into Klingon 😉

[gloomy palm]

<end of advert>

i dont think we can have too many translators 😅

there are like 25 german translators lol

[median heath]

Fair

[gloomy palm]

Ja Ja

Ja ffersson

[static jackal]

For the load balance enjoyers:
3 : 5 split in 3x3.

[wind spade]

for others: just do 3:6 and underclock 🙂

[median heath]

You need to put your talents into sushi.

Balancing before merging into sushi manifolds makes things super clean.

[barren elm]

So I've always been into manifolds, no need to convert me, but I'm trying to make a 12 station train dock where the train basically drives around stopping at resource deposits, before unloading it

I figure if a resource deposit has like, 5 nodes, a manifold just is not gonna work, right?

Though now I'm typing it out I guess an injection manifold would work fine

[static jackal]

If I were to get to that stage, I'd probably have multiple trains just for one resource lmao

[barren elm]

I mean a 3:12 train and 3x 1:4 trains are effectively the same thing, just the former has 1/3rd the loading/unloading times because game design

I did plan to have multiple trains on the same route before learning that unfortunate little detail

[static jackal]

Yo chill. I'm only on Tier 3 lol

[upbeat gale]

how would i go about splitting this properly? i don't even know where to start.

just the 112.5 and 157.5 stuff. i understand how to do the 3.5x and 3.75x

[wind spade]

manifold

[small kayak]

usually a manifold is enough. maybe in this case a split for the two sections could help for a faster startup

[upbeat gale]

thanks, ill look into that. never done a manifold before.

[wind spade]

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

manifold

[small kayak]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Manifold

[upbeat gale]

So it essentially lets me not worry about balancing the splitters so they are getting the exact amt of items per minute, in exchange for a slow start up? (as i have to wait for it to saturate before its efficient)

[wind spade]

yeah

you can also just pre-fill the machines by hand to get rid of the startup time

[upbeat gale]

I should have been doing that this whole time

[wind spade]

indeed 🙂

[upbeat gale]

but, when im waiting for it to saturate, is the splitter just completely filling the machines 1 by 1?

[wind spade]

it's just way easier, and the slow startup usually doesn't matter since you can build next part while the manifold is filling up

it's filling them basically one by one

[small kayak]

but after the first machine is filled up it starts to ramp up production quite fast

because the second is already filled 25% at that moment

[upbeat gale]

like here for example, id just do the manifold bewtween the foundries and smelters, then do manifold for the smelters then do manifold for the foundries?

[finite sun]

do you have a 270/m belt? if so, you just feed it into 3.75 smelters and 3.5 foundries

[small kayak]

3.75 smelter = 4 machines, one clocked at 75%

[upbeat gale]

yes i do. i know how to do the clock stuff as far as the machines go, but as far as inputting the right amount into each machine

[small kayak]

well, or 3 and OC accordingly. but needs more power

manifolds are easy as long belt speed is enough

[upbeat gale]

the idea of a manifold is screwing me up right now because i dont get how it works yet i guess

completely at least

[small kayak]

input at first machine is split to the next and that is repeated

first machine gets filled up with 50% belt speed, second with 25% and so on... until every machine is filled up and then just the consumed goods are taken from the main belt

[upbeat gale]

ya idk why i havent been doing that my whole playthrough if thats all it takes

[finite sun]

the idea of a manifold is extremely simple
"as long as inputs match the consumption, splitting can be done in any way"

[median heath]

Thing to keep in mind is that nodes are infinite.

[upbeat gale]

but if you are going from manifold to manifold, example being you have 4 constructors going into like 8 more constructors for example. do you then merge whats in the 4 constructors and then do the manifold from there?

[tropic hawk]

Infinite as in never runs out of resources

[finite sun]

it depends
sometimes you might not want to merge everything, primarily because belt throughput is not infinite

[median heath]

Yes.

[spring sequoia]

If your belts are fast enough for all the output, merge.
If they're not, subdivide your chain in smaller manifolds, underclocking to make the numbers add up to the demand of the next step.

[upbeat gale]

i see. alright.

thanks !

[sage surge]

hey, i just dont find a way to split 155 items per min into 95 and 60 items per min :/ does someone have a solution?

[tropic hawk]

Manifold

[median heath]

Single regular splitter.

[sage surge]

but than i get just some akward numbers like 77.5 and stuff like that yk

[median heath]

Exactly.

77.5 > 60.
60 side will fill, after which it can take only 60.
Perfect 95/60 split.

[tropic hawk]

Eventually it will fill up and send the proper numbers down each way, given it's a mk 3 belt

[sage surge]

okay

ill try that thank you

[median heath]

Try not.
Do, or do not.
There is no try.

[tropic hawk]

Quiet Yoda.

[median heath]

😭

[upbeat gale]

for this would i do the manifold and then for the last splitter have it go to the assemblers? and manifold for the 2.5 assemblers

[spring sequoia]

Do you have mk3 belts?

[upbeat gale]

yea

[spring sequoia]

Then manifold should work yes

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

are all refineries running?

are byproducts taken care of?

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[wind spade]

you can post screenshots 🤷‍♂️

[round iron]

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[tropic hawk]

Are all items flowing out and are they all working at 100% clock speed?

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[tropic hawk]

Mind posting a screenie of the machine UI?

[round iron]

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[tropic hawk]

Mind posting a screenie of the oil extractor?

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

this looks like HOR is built up

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

kinda weird piping, but nothing really bad 🤷‍♂️

HOR = heavy oil residue

[tropic hawk]

Heavy oil residue

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

is that one refinery enough to handle byproduct from 6 refineries?

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

and the fuel isn't backed up?

also, 6 refineries need 180 oil 🤔

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

do I see yellow lights on the last 3 refineries?

check the last 3 refineries' UI

[round iron]

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[median heath]

oof

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

put a 7 at the end of clock speed

[upbeat gale]

i couldnt really do manifolds with this one could i

[wind spade]

why not?

[upbeat gale]

the storage container would take ages to fill up

[wind spade]

smart split to the top line with overflow to bottom (storage)

[upbeat gale]

ohhhhh

[median heath]

^

[round iron]

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[median heath]

Cries in imprecision

[wind spade]

166.666% -> 99.9996/min consumpiton
166.667% -> 100.0002/min consumption

[round iron]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[wind spade]

it rounds

most of the UI rounds to 2-3 decimals

[median heath]

That's there to make you feel better.
Game cares only about clock speed %

[wind spade]

166.6667%

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

or just 200% 🤷‍♂️

[round iron]

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[median heath]

Blame the players. 🙂
Originally that box wasn't there and we all dealt in %'s and understood that's how things work.

Then people complained.

Box added.
People stopped remembering how things work.

[wind spade]

it won't, as it won't have enough HOR

[dark laurel]

if you want to save on power btw, you can run 2 at 83.3333

[median heath]

83.3334

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

one of them

[median heath]

Aye.

[dark laurel]

meh. I'd rather things slowly fill up than run dry.

[median heath]

When the fill up breaks the system, you need to be slightly dry.

[dark laurel]

breaks it how?

I've only run into issues with power generation, because the game's math is weird

[wind spade]

if byproduct fills up, then the main product isn't made

[round iron]

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[wind spade]

game's math is fine 🤷‍♂️ what do you find weird?

[tropic hawk]

To quote you it actually only cares about production cycles

[wind spade]

different contexts 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

Care about Clock % with respect to Cycle time, yes.

[dark laurel]

the way efficiency works with the generators. 80% isn't 80%

[median heath]

Power is exponential with respect to clock speed.
Production is linear.

[wind spade]

if you mean overclocking, then yeah, generators have diminishing returns

[dark laurel]

and increasing returns when you underclock them

[wind spade]

well if you have a reason to do that 🤷‍♂️ I'd generally just build gens at 100%

[median heath]

MW per unit burned is linear.

[wind spade]

under/overclocking gens only changes number of buildings you need to burn given amount of fuel, but you'll get the same MW output no matter what

[dark laurel]

so, the output is the same, but the amount of power required to run it decreases

[wind spade]

generators don't cost power to run

[dark laurel]

perhaps I'm mistaken - I might be remembering it wrong. Don't feel like mathing this atm

[wind spade]

the only reason to ever underclock biomass burners is when you want more of them with slower burn time so that you have to refill them less often

but as we said - you're never saving any fuel or power or anything. You're only building more/less buildings with same total function

[cinder silo]

It's just as well to build more biomass burners, they still do the reduced burn time based on how much you're powering.

[small kayak]

Biomass burners scale consumption of fuel to the required power

[dark laurel]

Oh well. (Still, I love my little biomass burner grid, thing lasts forever.)

[tropic hawk]

Or when you need to make a circuit that is purposely tripped

[wind spade]

just equip hoverpack 😛

[tropic hawk]

Not very practical when you have excess measured in GW and a backup battery.

[dark laurel]

If you're referring to the mess I've got going on, I'm still building, so the 2-stage backup is for when I start overpowering the grid

[tropic hawk]

No I'm talking about my nuclear plant complex

[eager igloo]

I need to balance a ton of limestone. Im shipping limestone from 2, two freight bay stations into a single 4 freight station. I'm sure I can balance them using industrial containers but im curious what I should do for a configuration. Ideas?

I'm trying to compensate for lag in throughput and miner speed

Essentially I need to reduce 8 industrial containers down to 4 in a balanced fashion

Backlogged is essentially what I'm trying to do here to ensure the station always stays full

[tropic hawk]

I would say to use belt compressors.

!wikisearch belt compressor

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=belt

[eager igloo]

Thale link is just to the normal belt page

But now im curious. Could you explain?

[wind spade]

!wikisearch belt+compressor

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=belt+compressor

[wind spade]

doesn't seem to be wiki page

[wind spade]

• you can't balance using industrial containers really (or rather not in any better way than merger or splitter can already do).
• I'd recommend just merging two belts into one, making four 2:1 mergers

[eager igloo]

I was thinking that but I would like to balance between input stations if at all possible. One is going to be outputting less as it has less miners attached to ot

I'm feeding waste disposal for the aluminum plant

[wind spade]

then connect that one to less buildings making stuff 🤷‍♂️

if you have a belt that has 300/min on it and hook it to any form of transport, then it stays 300/min on the other end as well, so you can just hook it to exact amount of buildings. Instead of doing some weird balancing

[eager igloo]

Hmm. Ok

[dark laurel]

so hey, if you're talking load balancing, I like to use this method:

-depending on the number of inputs and outputs, the setup will change, but this is 3 outputs, each split 3 ways, then merged into 3 inputs.

So basically, no matter what I'm doing, it'll pull equally from all sources

[eager igloo]

Nice!

[dark laurel]

I still haven't figured out a really good way to work with anything not divisible by 2 or 3 though

I mean, for 5, you can split it into 1+4, then take and divide the 1 into 4, and do (0.25+1) x4;
7 is similar, 3+4, then each 3 split 4 ways and merged, so you end up with 0.75, and then 0.75+1.....etc. But it's kinda messy.

[median heath]

For 5:

Split in half.
Split each half into 3 (so you have 6 lines)
Take the 6th line an loop it back before the very first split.

[barren elm]

A brainless way of doing weird numbers is the recycle belt method

It's a factorio screenshot I know but yeah

[dark laurel]

same concept

[barren elm]

Just make a 1:8 balancer then feed the 8th output back into it

[dark laurel]

but how is that splitting, I'm not too familiar with factorio

[barren elm]

So you've got your 1:8 balancer here right?

[dark laurel]

mhm

[barren elm]

But you want 1:7

[dark laurel]

that does work

I think that would take less routing too

[wind spade]

or just... manifold

[barren elm]

Or just manifold indeed

[dark laurel]

idk, I keep playing with the idea of manifolds....they look so pretty, but I'm not a huge fan of the way they function

[wind spade]

yeah, it's your call 🙂 I'm just offering them to anyone who asks for balancers, as most people that ask for balancers haven't heard of them 🤷‍♂️

[dark laurel]

I think the only problem with that 1:7 setup is if the main line is already maxed, but it could instead be merged into the secondaries

imma hold onto that, thank you~

[wind spade]

merge them to second level (the one with two splitters)

(that works for any 1:n balancer with full input belt)

[median heath]

When you put the splitters close enough to the machines you don't see the "stalled" lines.

[barren elm]

Balancers might be undeniably a waste of time in satisfactory, but they are pretty

[median heath]

They are useful when doing sushi!

If you're doing sushi that requires higher amounts of things to the point you need to break it into "units", you need to balance the materials before merging them into the line for each unit.

[wind spade]

huh? if you just provide stuff in correct ratio, it should work anyway, right?

[distant aurora]

question: i'm seeing some mixed info on water towers. can a single pipe supply pressure to a whole network provided everything's connected?

like, does every pipe need to go through a water tower or just one?

[dark laurel]

so, to get around stalled lines, I use a different method anyway....

lemme see if I can find it

[median heath]

Take my 10 HMF Manufacturers on 1 line, if you wanted to do another 10, or 20, you'd need to balance the individual materials before combining them on each sushi line.

[wind spade]

I'd just build each material block separately (I won't mix resources to split them again)

[median heath]

? I don't mix to then split.

I balance the split materials before mixing.

[wind spade]

example: you need 200 steel beams, produced in 20 machines. Each block of manufacturers need 100. I'd build 10 machines connected to first block, 10 machines connected to second block. I won't mix the 20 machines together to split them again

(numbers fictional, too lazy to check recipes)

[median heath]

You can do it that way, yes.
But if you're bringing things in from other factories it's coming off the truck/train on a single belt.

[wind spade]

from train it could come in several cars 🤷‍♂️ and my approach would be "all parts of one product's factory is in one place" anyway, so this won't happen. But yeah, whatever floats your boat 😉

[median heath]

When you play again, screenshot it for me 😉

[wind spade]

screenshot... what? 🙂

[dark laurel]

-it's essentially just 6 splitters, with 1 of the splits run off to the sink, and everything else merged back into storage. It does have a small amount of overhead when the line isn't in use, but it lets me keep the line constantly moving once storage is full

[wind spade]

can't you just use smart splitter with overflow?

[dark laurel]

ahh, found it:

believe it or not, the 'on/off switch' for the whole thing uses a smart splitter to run this thing through the overflow side.

I use it for the space needle items too

[distant aurora]

to clarify, say i have 2 mk2 pipes from 10 water extractors. do i need to run both up the tower or can i just connect the two along with a single pipe offshoot that runs up and back down?

[dark laurel]

it depends on if your mk2 is maxed out

[distant aurora]

i dont think throughput should matter here

[dark laurel]

-it won't move any more than 600m^3/sec, so as long as it's within that it's fine

[distant aurora]

i'm asking about head lift, if the whole pipe network can get the head lift from a single bit of pipe running up a tower

[dark laurel]

oh, yeah. Head lift isn't affected by flow amount, just height

[distant aurora]

yeah, so does the head lift get shared across the whole network? assuming no pumps after the water tower

[dark laurel]

I think so?

[distant aurora]

hold on lemme draw it

[dark laurel]

I haven't messed with pipes too much, but they seem to be affected by gravity somewhat, so I think you can run something straight down and then back up to the same height with no problems

[distant aurora]

here

that's the question

cause i know option b works, but im wondering if option a will work

particularly for networks that need many pipes worth of throughput, it would be really useful to get all the pressure with just a small water tower like that

[dark laurel]

the one thing I need to confirm first....

are you trying to push 1200m/s of water up through a single pump?

[distant aurora]

no, the pump could even be a single 300 pipe if option a works

just connected to all the other pipes so they share the head lift

[dark laurel]

don't quote me, but I think Option A should work. It just might behave a bit slow (like a really long manifold), depending on how much it's split

[distant aurora]

the split i think shouldnt even matter once it gets filled up. all the water that goes up comes back down

[tropic hawk]

Option A definitely works

[distant aurora]

poggers

[tropic hawk]

Just remember to do the water tower technique properly

[distant aurora]

properly how?

[tropic hawk]

r/SatisfactoryGame - FICSIT Pipeline Plumbing Manual - First Edition

Dang it, the link didn't copy...

[distant aurora]

copy link address

[tropic hawk]

Last pin on this channel, read it

[distant aurora]

wait so like

if i just fill up a buffer and add a closed valve, i dont need pumps at all?

wild

[vapid gorge]

Yup, though you have the pump it up to the buffer in the first place and I personally find random lines of pipes pointing in the sky ugly

[river night]

note that water towers are basically a bug, and they might fix it 😄

[frosty owl]

Uzu be like: "we fixed the VIP issue..."
Everyone:

[deft lichen]

How are they a bug?

[river night]

because having free headlift with no energy expendature is clearly working as intended? 🙂

might as well delete pumps then. Note: I do not know if they care about this "bug" being used, they might not. But then, they might.

[frosty owl]

Wanting to keep things as simple as possible maybe

[deft lichen]

Oh, it doesn't need pumps

[river night]

you just need a high tower filled with water, you can pump it in once, then valve it off, and its working forever

[gloomy palm]

I think simplicity is relative

[river night]

or you can unpack water at the top

but it doesnt require steady power

[frosty owl]

Are you meming or is there a deeper meaning that's flying over my head here?
What do you mean?

[gloomy palm]

lol... well, I'm saying, you're essentially picking between two types of complexity

[vapid gorge]

wait what?

[gloomy palm]

sort of like the difference between time complexity and space complexity

[frosty owl]

I don't think so. Sushi-belting doesn't reduce complexity, it just increases it (though this complexity can in turn make some tasks a bit simpler)

[gloomy palm]

to sushi 🍣 or not to sushi 🍣 that is the question

[frosty owl]

I only have one answer to that

[vapid gorge]

if you have belt capacity that you can fit everything for a factory onto 1 belt why not"?

[gloomy palm]

you have less belts in sushi, so that reduces space complexity

[vapid gorge]

My projects are generally big enough that each part has enough volume to take up a whole belt

[gloomy palm]

ah

[frosty owl]

Your modded extractor not stopping and starving refineries when it's buffer filled up and then emptied out before the extractor could start producing again.
Remember, we troubleshooter that together

[wind spade]

less belts don't necessarily mean less complexity

[gloomy palm]

less space complexity

[vapid gorge]

Yes and I'm extremely worried by the phrase ' we fixed VIP junction bug'

[gloomy palm]

more space efficiency = less space complexity?

[vapid gorge]

kinda? Like the only mixed belt I have right now is 3 of the 4 parts for beacons on one belt with another belt doing wire.

Not Sushi would just mean 2 more belts to run underneath machinery

[gloomy palm]

hmmm

[frosty owl]

I guess I have a hard time seeing your "space complexity" point.
I mean, sure, less headaches handling many belts... But you still have to manage the same items in a "smaller" space with harsher limitations (less throughput aviable) so... I don't think the ups cover the downs in this regard

[vapid gorge]

I keep a layer of floor underneath factories for logistics to keep things tidy

[gloomy palm]

hmmm

[frosty owl]

Oh, sorry, I forgot about that pun 😆

[vapid gorge]

oh don't scare me like that

[frosty owl]

That's literally what the pun was supposed to be about

[vapid gorge]

everything including power cables are under. I show off belts feeding up wards by making them face out instead of in and have specific belts and lifts exposed for looks.

I do the same with pipes but that's not exactly recommended practice

[gloomy palm]

ah

[frosty owl]

I think this screenshot/video can show the two sides of our argument nicely: #streams-and-videos message

On one hand there is great space efficiency as you couldn't have any less belts for the same production.
On the other, the time required to calculate and handle all item's paths and ratios made building this take MUUUUCH longer than a simple "machine-to-machine" single-item belting strategy

(For a single-item belting, I'd need ~12 different belts, now I'm using 3)

[gloomy palm]

ahhh

[frosty owl]

Btw, @oblique hollow, I've noticed some VIPs missbehaving in my savefile. Would you like to have a look?
More specifically: sets of 3 water extractors making 300/min each (for nuclear, 1 pipe per generator). The 3 pipes get VIPed with overflow water (leftover from precautions against fluid loss). But in the end SOME extractors seem to back up on water while SOME others seem to be overall fine....

[vapid gorge]

pls stop, you know how much I need functioning VIPs later

[frosty owl]

I know the feel, but I need to know too

[vapid gorge]

I know there's a simple form of calculus to find what the proper ratio of these three resources to make the 3 total up to 780 but I absolutely cannot brain how to solve that atm? https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=75Inbj6Dc3XW2Sm7N0Ca

eh I'll just ratio it out

[finite sun]

current total is 723.722
you want 780
so 780/723.722, then multiply each input on the result
it won't make pretty numbers, ofc

[eager igloo]

@dark laurel I came up with this. It balances out the incoming limestone from 2 stations that have different outputs. The lesser of the two is the forward station and I even got a local node to feed in extra from the start

[vapid gorge]

yeaaaaahhh was looking at that. The decimals are horrible sadly

[woven frost]

I gotta ask how long did thag take it looks like it took a long time

[vapid gorge]

the refineries specifically? Those actual ones not very long. I've done a number of curved refinery placements so I've gotten pretty quick at it. And it's only a single layer curve that didn't really have to be alligned with other things

I've got another 2 floors of refineries in front of it. It actually took a lot longer figuring out a neat and tidy way to feed the pipes and belts to and from it.

[woven frost]

Ooowwww

It still looks like it took forever

Looks cool btw

[vapid gorge]

Well my first big circular build took me about 250 hrs, I could probably replicate it in 70 now that I know what I'm doing

and thanks 🙂

[frosty owl]

220-280-280 imo

With that the planner just leaves 0.something coal/min unused

[short drum]

Don't you have visual tilt issues with this kind of buildings? Really gets annoying

[frosty owl]

~~Imagine working at CERN ~~

[proven valve]

wha

[oblique hollow]

no thanks, i will no longer engage with anything VIP related.

Its the wild west out there with them. They are eldritch constructs with unfathomable behaviour

I cannot help if you use them

[finite sun]

thankfully, VIPs are always avoidable

[frosty owl]

Guess I'll be avoiding them from now on...

[proven valve]

what is VIP

[finite sun]

I don't use them in any large-scale things, it's a pain to remake it all if some of them break

but in small-scale and/or temporary stuff it's usually fine

[oblique hollow]

a special pipe construct that prioritizes one pipe input over the other

[frosty owl]

So yeah, a very important pipe pretty much

[sullen mulch]

right, am i going to go mentally insane if i try building nuclear power plant for 160,000kw

[past cedar]

naw

[cinder silo]

You absolutely sure you want just 160,000kw though?

[sullen mulch]

well I am building it more from an architectural standpoint and because i don't really want to think about power again

[errant sable]

0.064 nuclear power plants

[cinder silo]

One fuel generator and a biomass burner together produce more than that.

[sullen mulch]

the idea is to build this segment a few times over then create satellite factories to feed it

[past cedar]

if thats the case you dont even need to fuel them... just build them 😄

[sullen mulch]

hahaha

yeah i wish i could let myself do that but i like to make everything functional if possible

[cinder silo]

A grand total of 160mw won't go very far though 🤣

[sullen mulch]

oh shhhhhh

go away, you know i mean mw haha

[cinder silo]

Might have been a lot less painful building the reactors over the water for a far simplified pipe build.

Around 60 pipes in a huge block snaking across the desert could easily be a 40 hour build.

[sullen mulch]

well that's not so much of an issue for me

one of the main ideas behind this build was creating a stupid amount of infrastructure

seeing conveyor belts and trains just helps make everything feel more alive

[cinder silo]

I managed that even with the games shortest nuclear water feeds.

A very quick panorama of almost everything nuclear.

It swallowed a whole biome.

[sullen mulch]

oh yeah i forgot what i was getting myself into

[cinder silo]

27 buildings there, but uranium processing is elsewhere.

[sullen mulch]

and to think i thought i'd get close to finishing while at uni

yeah it's going to be a big project then

but it should be fun

[cinder silo]

Just chunk it down to bite size pieces, you'll get it np

I built a building a day on average, some of the huge ones like the fuel plant took longer.

[sullen mulch]

they're massive on the inside

i reckon the hardest part will probably be making meaningful progress especially with how long i spend on the visual design

[cinder silo]

I underestimated the size, I'd built the fuel plant and thought, yeah beams and control rods will be easy, that exploded fast, then add in the waste reprocessing underneath the whole thing.

[sullen mulch]

hahaha, yeah, i reckon im making a massive mistake especially considering im coming back to this after a break

but aslong as it looks cool in the end i'll be happy

one thing i am weirdly looking forward to is creating the train system to get all of the raw resources

[cinder silo]

Load balance the fuel feed and ooh look 0 radiation 🤣 even hugging a reactor isn't an issue.

[sullen mulch]

that's another thing haha, i think i originally wanted to load balance everything but that will definitely result in a disaster for my save

[cinder silo]

Only load balance the radioactive stuff, it isn't worth trying to balance all of it, just leave the rest to fill up as manifolds.

[sullen mulch]

yeah i think i will have to, more than certain my sanity will be close enough to gone after just building all of the machines i'll need

[cinder silo]

My fuel load balancer is built in to the reactor building roof, a huge 1-100.

[sullen mulch]

that's bigger than my tiny little load balancer for my pure iron plant and even that went wrong

hahaha, im going to have to work a miracle if i want to load balance these reactors

[cinder silo]

Just save before turning it on, if it goes bad, bug hunt, then reload and fix.

[sullen mulch]

yep i definitely will, not willing to loose the save because of a small brain moment