🔪┃rogue

[atomic vapor]

when your character is trash the story isn't suddenly the most interesting thing ever

[flint turret]

tbh im not a fan of the story anymoe

i used to like it tho

[atomic vapor]

I made the mistake or comparing it to grim dawn and that's when it broke for me

[flint turret]

i was fully expecting my chcracter to end up being orobyss

after countles attemts to save everyone in monos

[atomic vapor]

I doubt you being the bad guy would be good for the marketing of the game

[flint turret]

succunbing to corruption

[atomic vapor]

that said a game that peaked 6 digit concurrent players currently does have 900 so marketing is a whole different beast anyway

[flint turret]

its not that bad if you wipe the universe a make a new better one at the end

[atomic vapor]

Last epoch thanos snap would be funny

[flint turret]

anything would be better than this plain brother-sister good-evil slop tbh

[atomic vapor]

It's not bad as a chapter. the problem is how held back everything else has been

[flint turret]

feels like watching new star wars

[atomic vapor]

I'm fine with that being a part of a story

It's the lack of everything else that's meh

[flint turret]

oh yeah and majasa is good now bros

forget it being the main villan\trigger for years

[atomic vapor]

meanwhile that poe2 trailer has been living in my head rent free and I don't even play the game

[flint turret]

well, whatever really. I was looking forward the story ending in le, now i dont expect anything interesting tbh.

we still dont know who emperor is so maybe they will make something of it

[eager mason]

who is brother sister I dont even know

I havent read a full dialogue in poe 1 or le

[flint turret]

in poe1 i rapidly started to skip everything shortly after i started playing

as for le i think the story was lining up pretty godd until the last chapter, now its mostly whatever

[inland yacht]

I think chapter 10 is fine for what it is. Stop gap to tie up the Apophis storyline and to introduce Eterra properly

[flint turret]

it became the most generic story ever

[inland yacht]

i liked the implication that the traveler is kinda the reason everything went to shit even without being the one actively doing things to cause it

[flint turret]

it was like that before act 10

player removed the floating device in ancient era when he tried to access the emperor in the temple of eterra in the corruption age

but they scrambled it and now its eterra\orobyss who crashed it

[inland yacht]

the little thingy you grab is in an ancient-era temple that has already crashed tho

[flint turret]

it was floating alright at that time

[inland yacht]

I'll need to look a little closer. I could've sworn the temple was broken already

[flint turret]

im 99% sure it wasnt

you could even see the land down below if im not mistaken

[inland yacht]

the device must not have been very important to keeping it afloat then lol

[flint turret]

now it doesnt even matter

[atomic vapor]

I didn't like the whole "pair up with a useless guy, gets turned into a worm, go to the desert, pair up with another useless guy"

It took me many characters to realize they're not the same guy

[flint turret]

but they are

[inland yacht]

I'm guessing George means Alric

[atomic vapor]

The guy with the moustache in the desert is the same dude that gets abducted earlier? Crazy

[inland yacht]

who is pretty useless

[atomic vapor]

Yes thank you that's the name

[inland yacht]

the moustache guy is the worm

[flint turret]

no that one becomes abomination

teh worm one is zerrick who you meat at majasa square

[inland yacht]

a lot of people become abomination

[atomic vapor]

I was under the impression we deal with cleaning up after 2 different dudes throughout the story idk I could be wrong

[inland yacht]

we do

[flint turret]

and the hakon one is the captain who brings you to lagon island

[inland yacht]

and then in the alternate timelines the abomination

[flint turret]

its how it is, orobyss and emperor

orobyss is more or less explained already, emperor is still a mystery

[atomic vapor]

zerrick is the competitive sekiro guy right? Blocks everything under the sun

[flint turret]

anyways i was expecting player experiencing corruption himself at some point, maybe with the corrupted variations of skills or something, but so far doesnt look like it

choosing to stay clean or going full corruption or balancing those would be fun imo

since we already had harbingers who are travelers that got corrupted powers basically

sadly we didnt get any kekw

[inland yacht]

most common theory I've seen is that Grael is the emperor

there's not really another NPC we know of that would fit, but they could always just make someone up

[flint turret]

it doesnt really keeps up since emperor acts like he havent seen the player before at all

and yulia doesnt know who he is either

[inland yacht]

could also just be a cover and not wanting to explain who exactly he is to the player considering she knows you have to go back in time and work with him to even get there in the first place

emperor also says something like "You, I remember you. Why are you here"

[flint turret]

gotta wait and see i guess

at this point im expecting some super generic ending tho

with some random dude or whatever

[inland yacht]

yeah we won't know until the expansion right? Pretty sure that's the final 2 chapters and the end of the Orobyss saga

[flint turret]

yeah i think so

rhyleh theory for s4 pinnacle is somewhat plausible too

[inland yacht]

screw that bird. i'ma throw my bird at him

[cobalt mantle]

Yep, I would be surprised if it isn't Grael since it's pretty heavily suggested that he is the emperor. It could very well be a distraction, of course, but there aren't a lot of other possible characters to pick from

[inland yacht]

curve ball, the old viagra guy is actually the emperor

[cobalt mantle]

lol

[flint turret]

i dont think emperor is gonna be grael tbh

id more likely to bet on the same approach as with orobyss

a random dude we meet in the next act or something

[cobalt mantle]

How is that the same as with Oro?

[flint turret]

we didnt know anything basically about oro, next act drops and here he is

[inland yacht]

we already knew what Orobyss looked like from the cutscenes in act 1-3

we knew he was Eterra's brother

[flint turret]

yeah except that

but we didnt know much about eterra either

[cobalt mantle]

Yeah, we've known quite a bit about him for a while

[inland yacht]

and we knew that he disappeared around the time that Eterra did, but still managed to get his corruption out

[cobalt mantle]

He's even one of our globe girls

[inland yacht]

I'm prepared for the chapters to be bad or mediocre, but I'm hopeful that they'll wrap things up nicely. It's too far away to really care right now though

[flint turret]

true, i care about rend more currently

[echo nebula]

the arena from Gladiator's Oath has the Damage reduction or is a totally different arena from Graceful arena?

[torpid trout]

it should be the same fighting arena, but the "more damage in arena" and "less damage taken in arena" stats are tied to graceful arena specifically

[soft mauve]

is there a way to apply shadow daggers via shuriken hits by any chance?

[zenith bridge]

Nope

[flint turret]

am i crazy for wanting a shadow dagger buff? i know its super good while leveling, at gearing and at semi-low corr, but its not really viable at higher one. Id gladly see a early game nerf for SD while having it buffed for late game (dunno how it can be done easily tho)

we might see something along the lines if they keep the SD on umbrals and remove the sword thrower prerequisite

but that would buff the early game too so dunno

[zenith sequoia]

you just give it a scaling effect

[flint turret]

like... how?

[zenith sequoia]

like anything that is a flat dmg or % dmg based on some stat.

give it a harsh ratio or tie it to an stat that is hard to get or is competitive in spots.

[inland yacht]

Did shadow daggers get nerfed at some point in the past couple of patches? I could've sworn it was used in at least one major build

[flint turret]

well... BD might use some dex scaling but im not a fan of clear direction to a stat stacking for everyone as we are now seeing

[zenith sequoia]

I mean it doesn't have to be an attribute

[inland yacht]

it already scales with both melee and throwing damage modifiers as well as being a guaranteed crit

[flint turret]

wasnt touched at all since like 1-1.1, it just gets obsolete due to a power creep every patch brings to the table

[inland yacht]

idk if that's a problem with shadow daggers as much as a problem with power creep not being controlled

[flint turret]

SD is propotrianally better the worse your gear is basically

[inland yacht]

that's weird

[zenith sequoia]

yeah I mean a scaler like x% more dmg per level of throwing + melee skills past 20, or take truesight and make it a scaling mod that's like x% chance to Deadly Strike per % chance to blind or something.

stuff like that

[flint turret]

you get smoke cloud with smoke blades lvl 4 at like what, lvl 20-30? thats 160 flat for shadow daggers from smoke alone. gl finding that much flat for any other skill that early

[inland yacht]

it's also got 340% ADE

never actually knew that

[zenith sequoia]

yeah used to be higher and also scale with spell dmg lmao

[flint turret]

yeah but the issue is that it doesnt scale at all into the endgame

the most you can get is a primo body for pen and thats about it

[zenith sequoia]

yeah they just need more of those stat scaling effects for it. Sorta how the reflect shit works

and same with how they fixing Fire aura

[inland yacht]

i didn't see the fire aura change

[zenith sequoia]

it gets flat scaled inherently from int I believe and then nodes other nodes that scale based on some stat % I forget what exactly

[flint turret]

well, im still commited to the idea of sd becoming the last bd skill

[inland yacht]

just something that applies SD primarily as the skill?

[flint turret]

no the actual tree skill for sd

[inland yacht]

I can't imagine the currently proc'd skill existing as a skill tree without a heavy nerf

see EQ bear. SD being "fine, just not great" right now and then giving it a skill tree to scale the proc would be insane

[flint turret]

we had flask, we got traps to trigger flask, so...

same for DA

[inland yacht]

the difference is that flask is bad without explosive trap

[flint turret]

yeah i see what you mean, thats why i said it would be nice to buff the SD endgame while slightly nerf an earlygame

tree could fix it easily

but i almost never guess whats coming in le right so dont mind me kekw

because mostly what comes makes no sense anyway

[inland yacht]

I mean even LE doesn't always guess what's coming in LE

the cold marrow shards conversion was never in any patch notes. just showed up

[zenith sequoia]

if only acid flask wasn't bad smh

[inland yacht]

flask is a victim of old skill design. it has very few multipliers on the skill itself

there's 80% and 40% for generic more damage. 100% for hit while disabling ailments and leading into crit synergies

and if the skill is primarily ailments for damage baseline, it's gonna need more than that

[pale loom]

hi here ! for heartseeker ignite build, what's better t7 on helmet ? recurve with heartseeker or chance to ignite on bow hit ?

[zinc trellis]

recurve chance on heartseeker has diminishing return iirc, so i'd imagine ignite on bow hit would be better

[flint turret]

depends on lots of factors

there is usually no siple answer as to what part of the multiplicative equation is better without context

[pale loom]

can i link my build create by me ? ^^

[flint turret]

if you have 3\3 in burning daggers that means half of your hits are throwing not bow

[flint turret]

are you asking for permission or a way to do it? )

[pale loom]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Qb6OPWy9

[sharp raven]

Marksman, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.5

Class:

Rogue (26) / Bladedancer (8) / Marksman (74) / Falconer (5)

General:

▸ Health: 1,539, Regen: 23.6/s
▸ Mana: 141.69, Regen: 0/s
▸ Ward Retention: 26%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 13 Str / 123 Dex / 13 Int / 13 Att / 13 Vit
▸ Resistances: 126% / 157% / 117% / 77% / 125% / 62% / 92%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 32%, Threshold: 376
▸ Dodge Chance: 30% (1025)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 29% (1,398)
▸ Glancing Blow Chance: 16%
▸ Crit Avoidance: 35%

Used skills:

Heartseeker / Shurikens / Cinder Strike / Shift / Smoke Bomb

[pale loom]

permission ^^

[flint turret]

i dont see a reason why would anyone ask a permission to post a rogue planner in #rogue but whatever

i know im kinda avoiding your question but id recomment to look into ember amulet instead of primo helm

and use drelkors bow to make hs 0 mana with sapping strikes

and maelhin gloves to convert bleed to ignite

[pale loom]

i see 🙂

what i use on helm ?

[flint turret]

calamity looks like a decent option

[pale loom]

ravager's dart is not useable ?

or just not for ignite HS build?

[flint turret]

you cant spam hs with dart

also armor shred doesnt work for dots in case you didnt know

[pale loom]

yes my bad sorry

[flint turret]

and there is an awesome affix for ignite

you shoukld be using it everywhere you can

[pale loom]

okay

[flint turret]

i made a planner for ignite hs myself before s3, trikster too and actually tried it, but we dropped the idea because of poor proliferation mechanic from embers

everyone expected it to be much better, the clear sucks as is

the word is out there that embers are going to be better in s4 so ignite hs might become a better option

[pale loom]

yes i can't wait 🙂

you have a planner of hs ignite ?

[flint turret]

ill need to search a bit for it, and i never actually got to playing it

[pale loom]

okok

[pale loom]

for start i have sunwreath LP 3 a lot ( x5 ) i can test a lot option maybe with that
and i have x1 with LP 4 ^^

but i don't know if t7 dext for 2 rings or t5 dext with t7 elemental dot maybe ? for better damage with ignit

[flint turret]

i couldnt find mine but i have this for you instead #🎥┃video-shoutout message

[pale loom]

and 2 reistance or healt idk

i go watch ! 🙂

[flint turret]

dex doesnt really do anything almost for this build

its only a tiny damage inc and a bit of recurve

[pale loom]

i see

[flint turret]

id gladly play ignite with embers myself if proliferation mechanic is getting fixed\buffed, but right now ignite hs doesnt make much sense outside of a single target damage

[pale loom]

okok
it's playable in 1.3 patch or it's better to wait next patch for ignite hs you think ?

[flint turret]

depends on what you consider playable

the build somewhat works, but clear is pertty bad

[pale loom]

corru 500 for example or 300 is good but not big ^^

[flint turret]

yeah it totally works then

[pale loom]

ok

thx

[flint turret]

frostbite should be better tho

since proliferation sucks anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sobHWIQkEz8

or maybe not, you choose

[pale loom]

Idk if i wait 1.4 for ignite build
Maybe it's better in next patch

[flint turret]

hopefully so

[pale loom]

10 month ago ^^' so in 1.2 patch ^^

[flint turret]

nothing really changed for hs from 1.2 to 1.3

few primos here and there but the only potentially game defining thing was ember amulet but it turned out pretty bad

[quartz gust]

Not sure any of the primals are even that good for HS

One of the big reasons why it's "lost" a lot of power this season

Relatively

Still very fun and Uber viable to an extent though it will require some amount of skill on the players behalf

[flint turret]

there are a few good primos like glass or discord tho

sadly the bow is not that great, hopefully s4 brings at least 1 decent bow or a way to get bow flat

[quartz gust]

I love Reign of Winter personally

But yeah, Dread makes interesting builds but they're definitely not meta and you should temper your expectations

Especially if you're a noob

He likes to experiment a lot with the lesser used things in the game

[flint turret]

dunno, on a contrary id say both his and triksters builds a pretty noob-friendly

the only one whos even more noob-friendly is probably aaron, but his own builds are... lets say controversial

[quartz gust]

Maybe noob friendly wasn't what I meant

They aren't always great

A new player who isn't super invested in "competing" in a sense will have a great time most of the time no doubt

[inland yacht]

I got a good laugh the first time I opened one of his builds and saw 2-3 LP on every single item, RR included

[quartz gust]

But they aren't usually going to be close to a less experimental build

[quartz gust]

Aaron's builds just aren't good even ignoring that

They are very casual friendly though

[flint turret]

most of LE players are casual so the lower the entry point the bigger the audience, there are not that many min-maxers in the game and the people who would farm 2lp rrs wont need those guides probably

even tho i know at least a few cases where its not the case

[kind adder]

Is there a way to make detonating arrow good aside from the explosive trap build?

[flint turret]

explosive trap doesnt make it good either

there is a meme manastacking one-punchman DA build that can one-shot uber abby byt it has 0 clear

[eager mason]

funny thing is they capped it when it was already fine

and left acid flask alone

[flint turret]

yeah its one of the biggest mysteries out there

my only guess they wanted to eliminate the competition for HS so more people would play HS

because the blast rain da nerf makes no sense othervise

i havent actually played it but my understanding is that its power level were very similar to current hs

or maybe even lower a bit

[void cargo]

Hello.

How does this relic and burning dagger work?
Is burning dagger similar to caltrops and fire aura and benefits from different source of scaling ? Does it scale with the cinder strike node that give more multiplier and the relic flat whatever how you apply it? For example if i apply burning dagger with HS does it benefit from the more multiplier from cinder strike and the flat from relic?

[cobalt mantle]

Burning dagger is like fire aura. All things that specifically say they affect burning dagger apply to burning dagger procs from any source, and it does not inherit anything from skills that proc it.

(Caltrops does inherit modifiers from the skill that procs it, unlike fire aura and burning dagger)

[blazing shell]

hello people

is it still hard to get BBC

[stable anchor]

it’s about the same difficulty as it has been since the item was introduced

shouldn’t be particularly hard to get 1lp

[blazing shell]

last time I got too tired before getting to boss who drops it

[flint turret]

you can choose the boss as a second harb you encounter so id say its quite fast

even tho i dont think you would need it that early, LM is not that great of a powerhouse to carry you without a gear setup

[potent rune]

I wish they would just get rid of lagon second phase its only boss I don't want to grind ever

[blazing shell]

I don't care, all I want is BBC

at least last time I was content with what I had

[daring wren]

my favourite class to play. reminds me of Demon Hunter from Diablo3.

[blazing shell]

it's closer to Zed from lol

[daring wren]

BBC meaning? Big Black C?

[blazing shell]

Black Blade of Chaos!

I still don't understand who thought it was a good idea

someone literally approved this name

[daring wren]

hahaha..

[blazing shell]

it's been more than a year since I first played LE and it still lands me a fat kek every time

[quartz gust]

Certainly what I read when they said "All I want is BBC" XD

[void cargo]

Especially when the discussion is about how it is a pain in the ass to get it perfectly.

[bold brook]

Shadow Rend traversal sounds interesting, but hopefully it has some mana sustain nodes or something

[blazing shell]

the cursed naming won't leave it alone I guess

but from what I've seen on the internet, shoving BBC up someone's exhaust organ is worthwhile endeavor

[flint turret]

i might be picky but bro. all nodes they show from rend duplicate the existing mechanics from cascade\sync and now shift too. i really hope they are keeping the most interesting ones for later and the skill wont end up as the jack of all trades the master of none

poison conversion for bladestorm is also one of the biggest "whatever" moments because no one cares about poison anyway

[kind adder]

Did they show nodes in the trailer?

[flint turret]

all over the place

[kind adder]

Damn I gotta pay more attention lmao

[flint turret]

latest one can bee seen in #👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs

[potent rune]

The new spoiler this week was kinda meh ,maybe rend just replaces shift

[inland yacht]

I mean nobody cares about poison largely because the options we have for it are generally bad. there's only a handful of viable poison builds across the game

nothing really saying bladestorm couldn't make it good for rogue

[flint turret]

thats exactly the reason its highly unlikely that poison conversion will see any play

for bleed and ignite we at least have primos now, and no new primos are coming in s4

[potent rune]

99 sure bladestorm its gonna be a super hit build

[inland yacht]

Without seeing the whole tree we won't know. Serpent's Sting enabled poison entirely through Serpent's Venom before it got nerfed. It really only takes like 1 node to change something like that

[potent rune]

They should do more leak about that skill

[flint turret]

yeah id say the most common build will be bladestorm shuri at this point, until we get more reveals

[potent rune]

Yeah but serpent strike is dead and was very bugged with those nodes

[inland yacht]

sure but you're missing the point. you can't say with certainty until the whole tree is shown

[potent rune]

Also dancing strikes getting buffed but man please upgrade the aoe of the skill its bad

True

But poison sucks 99% of the time so leak was very meh

[flint turret]

hard to say anything about dancing without a showcase

[potent rune]

Poison scorpion only poison build i would play

[inland yacht]

did I interpret that correctly that they're removing the small CD from DS?

[flint turret]

removing CD is great for sure but alone it doesnt change much

[inland yacht]

my brother will be happy even if the skill isn't very good. he just likes the animation

[potent rune]

Aoe its really small I hope node to increase it or something

[flint turret]

tehre are dancing aoe idols and dancing aoe helm affix which goes pretty high

and i dont feel like aoe is the issue here tho

rhytm being only 2s makes the skill hard to use as a support, and low amount of more multipliers makes it a bad dps skill

[inland yacht]

toast and I were talking about that in the primalist chat the other day. they really need to normalize the number of multipliers across skills

right now you can look at how many multipliers something has on the tree and make a pretty good guess as to whether it can actually do anything at endgame

[potent rune]

Anyone done lightning net like i am very interested and collecting shock idols for next league corrupts,is it stronger the shadow tech one or just spam nets

[inland yacht]

idk what the shadow tech is, but even just throwing nets is good

[potent rune]

Its using the skill synchronized strike , you can then abuse about shadows damage being generic but i have a ton 2 lp ocearon so I think spam net alone could be better

[wraith nacelle]

Has any one bug reported that with both these nodes and carrion gloves its still giving poison stacks insted of converting everything to bleed .

I was hopping to try to make a HS bleed with shadows setup for next season

[cobalt mantle]

It's not really a bug, it's just a result of order of operations; the conversions from items happen before conversions on skills.

So carrion works well on skills that can convert bleed to something else, generally

[wraith nacelle]

Dam that kind of messes with the potential of a bleed hs

[wraith nacelle]

Does any one know if they have confirmed if wildfire ember primordial will be getting buffed next season ? Sorry for the questions Im trying to theory craft some stuff for marksman next season

[cobalt mantle]

Pretty sure they have confirmed it will get a buff next season, not sure if we got any details tho

[craggy talon]

@flint turret yoo mighty ragu glad to see you around still

[flint turret]

i think LE develops pretty decently but a bit slow, so ill be around for a while for sure. Im not really pessimistic about all that krafton thing since LE team so far is getting more people without any downsides for us. Paid classes drama is mostly whatever for me, because i understand they had to make a tough choise of either making expancion paid or go with an alternative route. I think paid classes is a lesser evil than paid story ending

[crimson latch]

Im so excited for Rogue this new season

[flint turret]

yeah this might be a biggest season for a rogue yet

outside of a falconer introduction

[crimson latch]

Bladedancer top tier?

[stable anchor]

betting on the new/reworked thing being op has generally been a pretty safe bet

so probably

[flint turret]

its already top tier with flask, but not everyone likes that kind of a gameplya

[stable anchor]

surely flask gets nerfed tbf

[flint turret]

HS ended up pretty balanced as the latest rogue skill tbf

[stable anchor]

for sure, there have been exceptions, but more often than not it is the case

[craggy talon]

@flint turret once patch notes out it's gonna be great to see what changes coming. I have been only playing blade dancer every since I can remember I know all the variations by now but cascade or umbral blades or both are my bis

Bladestorms already there just seperate skills most likely even better

[flint turret]

yeah same cant wait to see more. it can go both ways tho and we dont know if the new skills\changes to old skill end up super interesting or whatever

so far the shuri bladestorm is definitely the fan-favourite

but i can see potential in rend. there are already 2 decent "more" multipliers being shown, and on top of it its gonna be easy to combine with falconer mark and maybe coated blades too

but to be fair cascade can use coated blades now too with a new set to generate shadows

if rend ends up not getting any on top of what we have seen maybe its still gonna be a decent movement skill because of 3s cd and almost double range of shift

[potent rune]

Rogue gonna be busted and I am all for it in the case its not that op ,old good void knight has me covered every season💪

Yo are they gonna make multishot playable ,that 80% less damage node for me kills the skill so hard

[flint turret]

id say unlikely, the only new thing for multishot is proc on rend and i doubt its gonna be useful

[potent rune]

Sadge true I saw that

[flint turret]

well even its highly inlikely maybe someting can be done with hydra bow into rend repeats into multishot or whatever

[potent rune]

You can get so much increased and maybe can use shadow damage tech with rend idk but 80% less damage is very bad, erasing strike got a 20% less and people try to not take that sometimes

I hope primal uniques and rune get touched ,primal uniques have too much lpl in my opinion I spent 1 million bones buying wings of discord and after nemesis turtle had 0 2 lp

[flint turret]

i think its fine, we are getting corruptions

you can corrupt all those 1lps now

and corruption results weve seen so far exceed the second lp potential

1lp+good corr >>> 2lp

[potent rune]

Hopefully we will see hard to beat 2 lp perfect mods

[flint turret]

either way i prefer to farm tons of 1lp and corrupting them rather than farming 2lps and double t7s

tbh ive never even done that becaseu i hate the idea of doing so even

all slams im doing are either t7+t5 or t7+5+5

[potent rune]

If slamming was better yeah its crap you have perfect mods perfect lp and rng just screw you hard,for now the big corruption winner are the 1 lps

[flint turret]

chances are tho that we are not getting the corruption rune prophesy so im already a bit mad

having to do even more generic runes rerolls is unfuriating

they might be holding back this qol reveal but at this point im not buying it

[potent rune]

What you kidding , I get that they like saving qol like rune of havoc prophecy but after this long its kinda a bad thing to do to players

I can play a lot if I try gearing 2 guys I already loose like 300 havoc in the process

[flint turret]

im like 80% sure we are not getting new runes prophesies

id more likely expect more doubling lenses nerfs instead kekw

[potent rune]

For me I hope in 7 months they had to make QOL , i dont want to o wait another 7 months for cof buffs in season 5

Imprint already destroy prophecy hard

But since I dont do trade mg I dont mind being op, I do group trade ,

[flint turret]

im not a fan of imprinting either. this season i got to lvl 8 cof before ive seen a first tongue while spending all favor on asc runes and unique daggers, and after i got the first one its just a printing frenzy for 5-10 daggers per hour

if i were mg id just buy 0lp tongue and print it immidiatly

[potent rune]

Imprint is op but well I am using it in cof legacy group so I cant complain that being said i really hope either slams,havoc prophecy make a cut on patch notes i am getting tired of LE insane rng

The new amulet its going to give a ton of ehp to dex stacking builds rogue with no damage taken its gonna be great

[potent rune]

So this is bis for some stuff dropped

Does ballista use this?

[inland yacht]

I thought ballista had a bow specifically for it that it used

[potent rune]

Ysah but thats old ballista build new one is stronger using this is think

[flint turret]

i hope they buff the bow in s4

im interested in how well will it work with rend

[frank pine]

bis bow for nothing rghnw

not good skil to run and shot arrows

[flint turret]

one of the main issues is that repeats doesnt work on the same enemy meaning its almost useless for bosses

on top if its stats not being that great in general

[crimson latch]

i like marksman 😢 haha

[crimson latch]

but we have to finish the slam before corruption isnt?

[flint turret]

yeah but slamming 1lp is the easiest thing there is

2lp+corr on the other hand is magnitudes harder

[crimson latch]

and we can equip more than 1 corrupted item? is not like primal items ?

[flint turret]

considering they showed us the corruption that reads "+all stats while having at least 7 corrupted non-idols equipped" im pretty sure there will be no restrictions for gear, but for idols those purple slots are still a question

maybe we will be able to put corrupred idols only in purple slots or whatever

[fading burrow]

have they revealed any change to ballista yet, guys?

[dire forge]

no changes to anything revealed at all

everyone's waiting for patch notes

[flint turret]

they revealed a bit about dancing strikes change, but without a showcase its not that big of a reveal

the implication of removing CD and increasing movespeed is vague

[eager mason]

even with those I dont wanna use that skill xdd

[flint turret]

Understandable, i don't like it either

But I can see some potential with bladestorm shuri

[lapis pumice]

this one change would make it insane

but it do need a middlepoint

make it proc on both spacebar & travel tag skill for instance

[wide yacht]

late answer here but rythm should really be longer, it would literally make DS viable with this one simple buff

at the very least 3s duration and it would change a lot

[flint turret]

sorry i dont see how would it be "insane" tbh because at best thats 2 extra skill uses over 2-3 seconds

which dont even count as a direct cast for purposes

[flint turret]

yeah thats what ive been hearing most of the time. And it can be a decent solution if they want to fully cement DS as a buffing skill

but i think they want to sit on 2 chairs and make it viable as a damage dealing skill

and buffing rhythm duration doesnt help it at all

[lapis pumice]

would make it bis across the board for most bow skills imo like no question asked

then u have to meet dex rec ect ect & bow build become a rigid copypasta across every skill

[flint turret]

id be willing to bet money it wouldnt

decently geared MM has an attack speed of more than 3 attack per second

2 extra attacks over 2-3 seconds is not that big of a deal

compared to lets say icicles

especially considering that you wont lose a primo slot

[lapis pumice]

true, it's a primo slot

u might be right, all aboard the buff hydra train

i'm all in for the change tbh, love the bow 😂

[flint turret]

considering the triple buff to discord, most of other things are gonna be irrelevant

[lapis pumice]

1 solution is to put underperforming primos as base uniques

[flint turret]

thats not a bad idea actually. this bow would make sense as a regular unique from some nemesis, maybe with +2 skills instead of +4

the dagger at least has 40 pen while the bow has only repeats that are useless on bosses

[flint turret]

the only interesting application for the hydra bow i can see right now is for repeating rend, because it will spawn shadows that might be useful for dark quiver

spawning 3 shadows on evade (or 4 with the new body) might be interesting

wont work for bosses sadly but eh

[crimson latch]

maybe HoA?

[flint turret]

yeah hoa is definetly the prime suspect to benefit from new set\rend

ah dam it says "directly" rip

hmm might actually be a good thing, this means that using it NOT directly will NOT consume shadows?

[zenith bridge]

Pillagers Gold will lose its 1 sec cooldown for burning daggers to proc. Thats actually a massive buff

[rugged pollen]

up to 2 times per second tho

[zenith bridge]

Oh yea i thought this was related to the other line

[flint turret]

embers buffed but still doesnt sound impressive

although it sounds like wisp amount is also getting doubled

maybe its decent?

tbh id rather see embers split into two items, one is ruprely ignite prolif without restrictions and the other one is wisps... because they are being held back by each other

if i want to use non fire based skill for ignite i dont care about wisps they wont even work

and on the other hand if i want to use fire skill for hit damage, i still might want wisps but i wouldnt care about prolif

[weary widget]

That's what I'm talkin about

[flint turret]

yeah buffs like this are a joke

[zenith bridge]

I also couldnt read out if this will make it much better. Need to test it

[weary widget]

They even buffed the best weapon ever, nicu

[zenith bridge]

Yea i thought pillagers receives RoW/dragonsong level of proc rate

[flint turret]

it just doesnt make any sense the way ehg uses trigger limits

i mean i get it that they want it to not spiral out of control, but putting a limit on blast rain DA which had like 1\10 of dps of trap flask and not putting any on flask raises some questions for sure

[potent rune]

Trigger limits are so bad idk if they want to make builds and skills or effects viable get rid of them

2 daggers per second is bad

[stable anchor]

no limit is hard to balance, and ehg have said it putting a ton of stress on servers are a big reason too, but i agree that often times they are very conservative with limit

[quartz gust]

I think the server is more likely their concern than balance

[stable anchor]

for sure, there have been so many past instances of uncapped proc rates absolutely frying servers lol

[flint turret]

i dont see how adding 2 daggers per second can affect servers if we already can have 100% proc of burning daggers on HS and its still terrible

[stable anchor]

yeah for sure, not necessarily in that specific instance, but in general

[flint turret]

and in comparrison we have row with icicles and dradonsong with dragonfire and both dont have limits and both are pretty balanced

[flint turret]

might it be the case umbral blades are getting some burning daggers tech since devs remembered about this relic?

[potent rune]

I am sure we can make it proc like 5 times a second idk doesn't need to be broken ,just a viable good strategy not a meme one

[zenith bridge]

So basically Ignite Heartseeker with Wildfire will still have the same issues as before, waiting too long for all ignite stacks to spread to other enemies since its a ST skill

Its a good buff for aoe based ignite skills though

[flint turret]

if we look at the HS in a vaccum yeah, but if we get like bladestorm on shadow like we used to have with bladestorms huge speed and being able to damage a single target with multiple of them, that might take care of clearing somewhat

something like hs into bladestorm into shuri and everything applies ignite

[zenith bridge]

If you purely focus on ignite you wont feel the impact of wildfire when the ignite stacks are based on other procs aswell. The gameplay loop in LE is just too fast these days. If i need to wait for my hs to proc bladestorm to proc shuriken to proc all my ignite stacks i'm already dead with mm.

In general i'm more leaning into crit gameplay these days simply because of the quick burst dmg you can apply

[flint turret]

well id argue with "already dead on mm" statement. HS is giga tanky and giga sustain in itself, and if you are not going mourningfrost even more so. You can even leech from dot

i mean either way hs should get better. We are getting more aoe for dot and more single target for hit

as for how they will fare vs each other in similar gear and situations im curious as well

[zenith bridge]

more single target for HS or in general?

based on wildfire

[flint turret]

in general, and based on wildfire maybe too

[zenith bridge]

cause the wisp proc rate got reduced

[flint turret]

fire converted HS with ROW worked great already, maybe now it would make sense to use embers just for wisps

2 times of 30% is still much more than single instance of 36%

[zenith bridge]

but the 2 times is only based on the spread to nearby enemies, which doesnt affect st ignite stacks?

if you only have a boss infront of you, the twice per second mechanic wont affect anything

if i read it correctly

[flint turret]

hmmm

im reading this as my ignites are spread twice per second AND we have twice per second chance to spawn wisp near any ignited enemy:
Twice per second while in combat, your ignites on each enemy within 15 meters are spread to one other nearby enemy, and you have a 25-30% chance to create a Wildfire Wisp next to an ignited enemy

if it only does that on spread then rip

well its not like dot HS has bad single target damage anyway

im more exited about the new skill additions to HS because it has at least 2 "free" slots

[zenith bridge]

yea im not worried about st dmg either, i just wanna have a smooth experience while mapping

[flint turret]

something like traversal smoke+hs+dark quiver+bladestorm+shuri (if they dont take away bladestorm on shadow from us)

mourningfrost+smoke blades+dragonfang buff provide a ton of throwing damage for free basically anyway

Or maybe rend traversal can replace both smoke and dark quiver if it will be able to spawn multiple shadows

Then we can bring back puncture as well

[blazing harbor]

Game says the rare gives me more throwing damage increase but I'm not even wielding a sword. It should be the epic that increased the most. So I can't trust tooltip and I can't even trust the modifider total value?

[torpid trout]

the physical keyword is important, not all throwing attack damage is physical, so it's not going to show up under the throwing attack damage stat line

[flint turret]

better check skill dps tooltip value instead of a character sheet. Even tho skil dps tooltips often lie too, they are a bit better

[sly hornet]

Why fire?

[flint turret]

because of dragonfang node

[sly hornet]

You mean Dragonsong?

You just said they used Reign of Winter though

Oh, a node

[flint turret]

around 60 added fire damage to bow\throw\spell made single target dps the same as cold row, but i also got dmg to puncture and umbrals for free on top

ofc it depends if you are stacking cold pen or not. if you are invested in cold pen the result will probably differ

too bad that having both conversions to cold and fire makes it fire still

[sly hornet]

Fair enough

That is sad indeed

[flint turret]

its hungry for points tho, dragonfang requires extra 4 in HS on top of a regular cold one, but its the only way to get more aoe damage (puncture) from hs tree

well, and its +damage to icicles too

[pale loom]

hi friends rogue !
how many recommand dexterity for skill tree heartseeker 0,5 recurve chance per pts of dexterity ?
80 is it good ? 100 ? i don't like t7 dext in my gear for hs ignite build ^^
if 80 dexterity is good, maybe t7 elemental dot is better +

and for ring and belt
what is recommanded ?
ruby ring ( exalted )
ashes of mortality with immolator belt ?
oceareon / sunwreath / other ? ( i prefer not take red ring because i don't have this with LP 1 lol )

[kind adder]

Belt and rings probably don't matter too much for HS. Your belt is just going to be a defensive piece mostly. Any exalted rings with affixes that you care about will be good.

[flint turret]

https://youtu.be/Gmt1rdz9LNA

You don't really want to stack dex on ignite hs, and yeah elemental dot affixes are super strong

[void cargo]

No need to invest a lot in recurve, the first % worth it but the profitability decrease very fast, between 200% and 250% there is only 1 hit of difference vs 2hits between 100% and 150%. Do not stack dex for recurve chance, do it only if you want the attributes for red ring.

[flint turret]

I'd recommend waiting for s4 tho, because they are x2 buffing ignite proliferation and almost x2 buffing wisps on embers

On top of new skill options being added which ignite hs might want to use like bladestorm or rend or whatever

[pale loom]

thx all ❤️

[terse bloom]

https://youtu.be/n0OzEZWv9wE

@zenith bridge did some testing on recall umbral blades

[zenith bridge]

Did you also test without Sword Thrower recalling all single blades with dex scaling razorboots? If you stand right ontop of the dummy you should even have higher numbers when all blades hit at the same time.

[flint turret]

3 lp trueglass, 2lp lirakas smh

[zenith sequoia]

why not use sword thrower?

I was looking at this too and tested a bit. Seemed ideal to grab the multi from Sword thrower and relying on the inherit multi from shadows

[zenith bridge]

cause i wanna see multiple blades numbers combined with razor dex scaling

Sword thrower had similar numbers to my setup, just a little bit lower. It makes more sense on razor, i just wanna see the difference

Juse also tryout Smoke Bomb without shadow generation and put rest of the points into Rapid Concealment and Lingering Fumes combined with Cloud Gatherer (Dive Bomb). Your Dusk Shrouds stacks should go higher for more UB dmg.

You probably rely on Shadow Falcons for clear aswell, im just interested in the max dmg number you can reach for UB

[flint turret]

no use to test it now while birds not real are bugged tbh, it would have been much better with birds not real

hopefully they fix it

[zenith sequoia]

idk if the dusk shrouds beat the multi of the shadows in that case. He'd get double the benefit of the dusk shroud multi but it's additive with the current one he gets. He'd have to throw a certain amount of blades to beat the shadows dps even with them generating per sec. That 300% multi is huge

[terse bloom]

Not yet

[crimson latch]

dude 21 dayssssssssss is too much

[quartz gust]

Eh, I have waited over a decade for games. 21 days is nothing XD

Cyberpunk was announced in like 2012 or 2013 and it was finally in a good state in like 2023 XD

It's now my favourite game but yeaah

[fading burrow]

just live

21 days will pass faster

[zenith bridge]

In other words, the dmg is similar since ive seen a 100mio crit in your video aswell?

[crimson latch]

planner :V

i dont remember the best version for acid flask was with BD?

[blazing harbor]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides/shadow-cascade-bladedancer-guide#gear,-idols-blessings-header

I don't understand the choice of endgame gloves (falcon). is this node that strong for attack speed?

[zenith bridge]

Yea you can get quite alot of melee attack speed for a big more multiplier. Also falcon gloves are easy to find with lp, good base with endurance + t7 attack speed alrdy included.

[pearl forge]

also think they are only gloves with flat dmg

[warm zephyr]

Just saw the 7m dash 3s CD Shadow Rend node, looks spicy maybe with Primordial Potion Traversal CDR.

[rugged pollen]

it it has iframe it's gg

but very likely not

[terse bloom]

bout 30m higher but gotta give up a silver shroud and cleanse

106 > 131m

also that's with no armor shred/rending talons so could probs do 150-200m

47 to 33% chunk in that clip

damage scales up to 40 shrouds in smoke bomb

not sure if birds aren't real is working properly

138m, 5>10 missle mastery dropping sapping strikes

need to get like 300+ armor shred stacks on

chucking 4/4 rending talons on

17% chunk

149m if i change % all res to 99% phys dam blessing

only ~10m increase

got x2 3 lp traitors but there are no good slammables up

also wanna test t7 phys pen on both dags over t7 crit multi

poe new league in 10 min

[flint turret]

Slay the spire 2 > poe

Were there any teasers today for new skills?

[echo nebula]

what type of Critical use the Armed construction with Perfect Aim?

just the general?

[cobalt mantle]

Stream hasn't happened yet, we're maybe like 2 or 3 hours away from new teasers

[cobalt mantle]

Technically all, but for ballista's bow attacks like the explosion, general, bow, and attack crit stats apply

[wraith nacelle]

Question for the theory crafters for next season do we think on Ignite hearseaker setup could we run a gathering fury bow with out burning daggers instead of a drelkors with burning daggers and still get similar ignite stacks on single target. I was looking at using puncture spected for bleed and converted to ignite with Maehlins gloves instead

[crimson latch]

im #1 heartseeker enjoyer

[wraith nacelle]

I also really enjoy it ,but Iv ran cold crit into the ground so im looking to maybe play ailment next season like ignite or if they make some changes to bleed conversions possibly that

Im also just a little tiered of having to use morning frost for flat

[crimson latch]

im tired of getting one shot

[wraith nacelle]

in the current game you can stake dusk shrouds from umbral blades on shadow use to help mitigate some of that but yea its part of playing dodge with low armor in high core it just happens

[flint turret]

You would want maehlins either way to convert bleed. As for getting similar ignite numbers I'd doubt that tbh. Burning daggers not only double your hits, they also have 100% ignite baseline

But maybe if you invest enough in mana sustain and could sustain burning daggers 2/3 with gathering fury it could work

[zenith bridge]

Maehlins you only need for crimson shroud stacks since HS doesnt convert it into ignite.
I think bleed puncture stacks conversion worked.

[flint turret]

but what about burning daggers tho, they dont convert bleed arent they

and puncture itself too

[wraith nacelle]

I wonder since you can only throw out 2 BD a second if one point would be enough with enough recurves and attack speed it wouldn’t stress the mana pool as much but could still have full uptime

[flint turret]

wait what, where did 2\s came from

they are nerfing the node? it doesnt make any sense

[cobalt mantle]

Yeah, I thought BDs each have an independent 1s delay before firing?

[wraith nacelle]

isn't there a limit on how many daggers you can actually throw per second or was I misinformed ? If so I apologize and I guesses I dont fully understand how burning daggers works then

I miss read this from one of there posts it only appliers the the relic and not the base function of burning daggers my apologies

[flint turret]

yeah you would prefer kethans relic for ignite instead anyway

[wraith nacelle]

Yea I figured that ,I was just mistaken buy the bottom line thinking it was a base functionality. So how does burning daggers work then does it just throw after a set duration of orbiting the player then ?

[cobalt mantle]

I think the cinder strike explanation is right, they circle for 1 second before launching

[wary cedar]

i have no clue what i m doing the next 20 days until season 4 drops 😔

[crimson latch]

i'll try D4 so i can waste 1 week and then BOOM

[wary cedar]

also tought about trying that lmao

but it isnt on sale 😭

[flint bough]

hey guys 🙂

im back to the rogue after some time 🙂

[flint bough]

is the concentration bug still with us?

[zenith sequoia]

Yes it requires a bow or you have less damage, I believe

[terse bloom]

Poe mirage into d4s12 into pokemon rom hacks

[wary cedar]

there will be a new season for d4?

just bought it today lmao

[quartz gust]

I've tried D4 3 times before and I got bored and refunded it before I even finished the campaign each time.

It'll almost certainly get a new season and many, many more after that though

[terse bloom]

yeah starts in 2 days

[crimson latch]

but i guess we have to buy the expansion for the new mechanics... that sucks

oh thats on april 28 nvm xd

[quartz gust]

Of course, Blizzard need more of your money

[flint turret]

slay the spire 2 > d2 - d4 and poe1, great timing to release while i wait for s4

sadly no interesting reveals this week it seems, the ring looks like a huge jebait

id rather be corrupring 1lp red rings

[flint bough]

bladedancer makes me happy 🙂

[rare jacinth]

so how do you actually build defences on a rogue, anyway? I've done a bunch of sentinels and primalists mostly and I'm fiddling with planners but just not seeing much of anything lmao

you get more armor from one leonine greathelm than the average rogues full armor set, I think

[torpid trout]

astral blood primordial unique is one of the better methods

particularly on bladedancer

[rare jacinth]

glancing blows seem decent but hard to stack up to reliable odds without sacrificing other layers

[flint turret]

depends on a build, but generally either by stacking armor or evasion with dusk shrouds and silver shrouds

also there quiet a few zhp builds that stack only damage and offscreen enemies

[flint turret]

glancing blows are not theta hard to cap. ypu can get around 20 dusk shrouds on any mastery, but MM and falconer have it a bit easier

in 1.4 we will get helm that gives dusk shrouds upon consuming shadows so it will fix the bd access to it hopefully to be on par with mm\falc

also we will get flat crit relic so BD will be able to use dual swords with weapons of choice maybe

even tho im not a fan of an idea to farm a good scissor, maybe they will add a new sword...

[rare jacinth]

what's up with shadow cascade's Dagger Dance (and followup node Porcupine's Wrath) using some Dagger Throw subskill instead of just triggering Shurikens

they've got nearly the same base damage and ADE (25phys and 125% for shurikens, 24 and 120% for subskill throws) and the rest of the tree is worded like it doesn't apply more multis to the daggers anyway

[flint bough]

will shadow cascade bladedancer be good with the two new skills coming?

[rare jacinth]

there's definitely at least a little skill tree reworking incoming w/ umbral blades losing the bladestorm nodes, maybe they'll take the chance to revisit some of the other skills too, hard to say if it'll be good without seeing the patch notes

the teased new set definitely makes things better but also from what I'm seeing a lot of current shadow cascade builds currently get a 100% more multi from some snapshotting silliness w/ Careful Assault, so if that gets bugfixed it might just be worse

[flint turret]

all of the cascade tree works if you convert to a dagger throw, except nodes that specifically mention melee damage

its almost net neutral because you are getting 90% more damage from convertrion but dagger throw has 120% dam eff instead of 200 for melee cascade and 5% crit chance instead of 10%

both are great its mostly a matter of preference

[cobalt mantle]

The dagger throw also applies SD stacks. If they ever let us move while channeling it, it might be pretty fun.

[flint bough]

so shadow cascade will still be working as normal aside from the new skills coming?

i was planning on making a shadow cascade bladedancer lol

[flint turret]

I did a bit of testing for a channeled cascade build and it works weird

It doesn't actually snapshot, it actively scales based on the number of shadows

[cobalt mantle]

Yeah, it is a weird one

[flint turret]

And I didn't knew before but all -cost reductions like from rings and from mountain boots work on channel cost

[cobalt mantle]

Oh hm, it snapshot when I ran it, but I didn't test that one specifically, maybe that one thing updates dynamically?

[flint turret]

Yeah I'm talking specifically about channel

[cobalt mantle]

Yeah, with all those effects, it is possible to sustain indefinitely

[flint turret]

Yeah it's pretty easy to sustain actually

[cobalt mantle]

and it's nice that foot of the mountain updates the cost dynamically, too

[flint turret]

I wanted to spam falcon strikes during it so every cascade hit would hit a mark but I can't sustain it yet

Because birds not real are bugged and don't work at all

[cobalt mantle]

lol classic EHG

I really considered trying to run a snapshot channel SC build, but then I remembered that I'd have to be like 100% stationary and that kills it

[flint turret]

With birds not real specced neither repeated dives in smoke nor additional shadow dives work

And if I don't have birds not real the dive just cancels falcon strikes

[flint turret]

It's not that bad actually, with traversal smoke and lots of cdr resets from dive

[cobalt mantle]

Considering that's like, the whole shadow bird part of the tree, that's oof

[flint turret]

And its tanky af because you have 3k endurance and 100% glancing

[cobalt mantle]

Oh yeah, smoke bomb does help a lot there. Though you do still need to re-snapshot when you move... I don't remember at all what I snapshotted though, maybe it's not too bad

[flint turret]

Last time I tried it didn't work with snapshot

[tranquil urchin]

So when they fixed snapshot they didn't really fix snapshot? lol

[flint turret]

I don't think they ever changed anything about it yet

[cobalt mantle]

Well, the snapshot fix was focused on minions, channeled skills are still the same, generally

[flint turret]

Or actually I might be misremembering, I think it worked a bit different with 4 shadows max and 3 max

Need to try it again I guess

[tranquil urchin]

Ah I see

[cobalt mantle]

I don't remember if I tested careful assault specifically, but it was definitely snapshotting stats when I tested, granted that was a long time ago, now

[flint turret]

I'm mostly sure that some nodes do snapshot and some doesn't with channeling but I'm not sure which ones now

Because I remember clearly that having smoke generating shadows my damage was going up and down depending on shadow amount during channel

[cobalt mantle]

Huh, that's pretty odd

[flint turret]

Totally unrelated but dam, xenonauts 2 release on April 2. Current time period is so stacked

Hopefully I'll still be playing traversal coated blades rend or something

Potentially we will be able to boost it to some big numbers if it gets 1-2 extra "more" damage nodes

Shift crit+more damage for next cast, coated blades, more damage per each shadow, shadow gen from smoke or from new set, bam

Also hunter mark and charion boots can be a part of it

[tranquil urchin]

That looks just like that ufo enemy unknown or whatever it was kinda game, love that!

[flint turret]

Actually bow rend might have even bigger one-shot potential.
Elemental arrows almost 150 flat, charion boots 30% more, traversal rend 50% more, 3 shadows consume 60% more each, falcon mark 150% more, coated blades 80% more, archer focus in black arrows 48% more, umbral resolution in black arrows 300% more (wonder how will it interact with rend consuming shadows itself, let's assume it does), concentration 16% more... That results in x1.3x1.5x2.8x2.5x1.8x1.48x4x1.16 = x168.7 damage just from "more" multipliers alone that were already shown, might be more waiting

[cobalt mantle]

Usually multiple consume effects are not compatible unless they specifically say so

[robust cloud]

KAboom!

level 89 rogue.. equipment not amazing but okay

[wary cedar]

my goat

i wish i could play as well

[robust cloud]

yeah i am just itching for the new season.. trying out some stuff on different builds. But this detonating arrow build i will fall back to next season if i dont like the new rogue skills, i think. Because i will most likely start rogue.

i installed both D4 and poe2.. but i played 20 minutes of each and back to LE lol

[wary cedar]

feel you lmao

[wary cedar]

i tried out poe2 a while ago, but its hell of an unoptimizied mess, standard poe doesnt really get me hooked

[robust cloud]

poe2 stuttered on my rig as well when i first tried it..

[wary cedar]

currently first time playing d4, still in levling, skill tree kinda underwhelming so far

[robust cloud]

ah okay well if its the first time then you atleast have things to explore

[wary cedar]

like on the maps i had around 100-110 fps, but it somehow capped me at 30 in town, instantly refunded xd

[robust cloud]

i enjoyed D4 okay when i first played it

[wary cedar]

until now it's kinda boring since the skill tree doesnt offer anything

[robust cloud]

i think D4 has an okay rogue class

i would like to try the new paladin.. but i cant pay like 50 bucks for it lol

yeah the build options are narrow compared to LE

but gear offer some stuff for builds as well

not just the skilltree

[wary cedar]

ya i figured that out, but that gear only shows up later in the game

poe kinda the same, you just get those skill gems, but you have no vision to work to since you dont know what else comes up ahead

in le leveling is most fun for me since i can plan a build and grind it up piece by piece while leveling and see how it performs

[robust cloud]

yeah

[wary cedar]

and can already adjust things if they don't work as i thought

[robust cloud]

yeah i think LE has by far the most fun building

D4s character models look good tho.. except for the female druid.. and they have amazing cosmetics

I wish LE would focus more on the models of the uniques and cosmetics

it is a bit underwhelming the first time you put on a barbute helmet and it looks like you have a kettle on your head

[wary cedar]

ya, onlyt good part about d4 so far is the graphics and the general vibe you get from them

[robust cloud]

well you have a couple of weeks to grind D4 until the new LE season, so enjoy. I liked the story.. and loved the cinematics

[wary cedar]

i m skipping all those, just want to get to the point where i can acutally build my character

[robust cloud]

lol

the cinematics are worth watching

[wary cedar]

well i bought some cosmetics in LE, so i can always have the drip 😎

[robust cloud]

yeah i have bought a couple of supporter packs in LE too

and some stray items

i got 300 points for free since i bought the game when it released in early access

and they even convinced me to have some twitch streams running to get some free ones lol

[wary cedar]

i started on release 😔

[robust cloud]

it was a good time to start.. once the server problems got resolved lol

[wary cedar]

those were nothing

i played new world on release xd

[robust cloud]

i did too lol

[wary cedar]

i also had a day off

just to sit in the queue

[robust cloud]

i took some days off for the LE full release.. and me and my buddy couldnt play lol

but it was okay

[wary cedar]

i might have nothing to do on work when the new season drops in le

😏

[candid pebble]

Hi 🙂

The new Bladestorm skill looks pretty cool, so I might make a Rogue this next season.

Are Rogues squishy? And how can I avoid getting flattened while playing as one?

[robust cloud]

rogues have capability to invest in dodge and glancing blow for survivability

it is basically throwing the dice if you get damage or not

[candid pebble]

Seems typical

[robust cloud]

yep

of course you can invest in health and endurance/endurance treshold as well.. but the skill trees dont really have endurance nodes

[candid pebble]

March 26th, that's a ways off

Wonder if Maxroll is ever given any info in advance about classes before they make their guides.

[robust cloud]

i have no idea.. i just make my own builds

[candid pebble]

Fair

I think that's what I did when I first played, but since then I followed a Void Knight Warpath build from MR and another YouTube video

But I got tired out trying to farm for the idols I needed for my slots and just...Petered out.

I usually play tanky classes but I like how Bladestorm looked, so I hope it's a good skill

[robust cloud]

yeah i sometimes watch builds on youtube as well.. if there is something i like i might build something similar

i just build according to gear i find usually

whatever is fun to you

I will start rogue next season too

Ill probably try an archer build with the new skill

but it might turn out whatever

[candid pebble]

Shadowrend seems more like a melee skill to me but the mobility might be a nice option.

[robust cloud]

yeah i havent looked very closely at the skills.. i will just roll a rogue and build it as i go

if it doesnt turn out good i will just make it into a detonating arrow marksman to farm some gear for the next build for the season

[candid pebble]

Neat

Warpath is usually my go-to build

[robust cloud]

this season i didnt make any mage so ill probably roll one of those necxt season also

and there was an interesting node for those expploding zombies coming up.. so necro might be an option

[candid pebble]

Ooooh

[heady canyon]

Is arrow traps not working? the node that procs det arrows from explosive traps

[terse jolt]

Rogue can get pretty tanky, bladedancer especially has a lot of defensive layers.

[fading burrow]

depends on how people define what does "tanky" mean

[terse jolt]

I mean taking around 1/3rd damage before armor isn't bad.

[candid pebble]

I think that's what Bladestorm rogues will get, if it's not an exclusive skill already

[eager mason]

most of rogues defences are conditional which is the problem

you think you are tanky until some of the conditions are not met and randomly get one shot

there is like only apostacy and deaths door which are reliable

I still hate apostacy and deaths door only became good after they added the body armor

[flint turret]

usually id agree but seeing a couple of guys here facetanking every uber attack except for the huge expanding circle and not dying, changed my mind a bit

crazy gear being used ofc but still

[eager mason]

yeah I mean most of the defence for rogue comes from gear

which you can use on other classes

[flint turret]

MM and falc has tons of dusk shrouds too

bd in 1.4 might get it to from set helm affix

[potent rune]

Rogue can get the most ehp of any class and thats a fact

A buddy started a vk and was struggling with rampant coast cause he had to actually dodge attacks and position himself

[flint turret]

sounds weird tbh

[eager mason]

ticking every conditional in le planner doesnt make it tanky

[potent rune]

Dodge ,silver shroud,glancing blow,

[eager mason]

I mean I dont even need to say anything hc ladder explains everything

[eager mason]

which are all conditional

[flint turret]

and none works vs dot

[eager mason]

as I said

which will get you killed

[potent rune]

I made a planner 0 damage definitely but having access to stuff other classes don't is incredibly tanky

[eager mason]

lol can you show the setting now

and gear

[potent rune]

Shift smoke bomb make the conditional rather easy,new chest arquitect allows low life and thats very strong

Once you go play other stuff you realize how easy rogue has stuff compared to others,not saying you aint getting one shot if you are playing stuff like ballista

[eager mason]

holy rogue is so tanky

[potent rune]

That's a lot you can get 20 easy no

[eager mason]

depends on skill and it wont be up all the time

that is also conditional

like clicking all these contionals doesnt make you tanky

[potent rune]

I find while moving a lot better than close enemies

[eager mason]

you are not gonna have 20 dusk shroud all the time which means you dont have glancing blow all the time

not to even say you are running this most of the time

[potent rune]

Well you can certainly be tankier than other classes,only reason vk warpath as a melee can push high corruption is that it has so much aoe that stuff doesnt hit you

[eager mason]

and since rogue doesnt get much res from the tree early on you need to choose between res and life a lot

[potent rune]

Oh rogue like bd and marksman need better tree

But I play 5 classes and mastery rogue aint worse and is tankier than most in general just saying for sure a minus res with 2k health is a one shot

[eager mason]

dont you play standard

or whatever it is called in this game

[potent rune]

Legacy yeah

[eager mason]

are you actually doing from 0 runs

[potent rune]

No point in seasonal if you ask me

[eager mason]

yeah I mean if you already have gear ofc you wouldn think rogue is tanky

the problem is that most of your defences come from gear

dr from red rings uber gear

[potent rune]

I agree but if you go mg you have access to all this stuff now as a cof much harder I play cof always

One thing for sure is that conditional in this game apart from like low life needs to be general,Sentinel has 1 that needs enemy to be close which is not great like just gimme dr general

[rare jacinth]

"nearby" winds up being like most of the screen for that node iirc

[flint turret]

falc and mm can without too much effort

even more so after they fix birds not real

[eager mason]

they have it all the time?

I played falconer a lot

it doesnt have it all the time

[flint turret]

only when it matters

[eager mason]

only on a boss that does nothing

where you dont need to move

or dodge

[flint turret]

well i doubt you went all in on dusk either, because almost no one plays 4\4 rapid concealment or birds not real eitehr way

and hs mm can have 20 while moving somewhat

[eager mason]

yeah I know about heartseeker

[flint turret]

with the new helm affix average dusk number will go up significantly eitehr way

[eager mason]

but thats about it

1 skill

on mm

at least it looks like they know the problems

[flint turret]

kinda true, but traversal smoke with rapid concealment on any mastery is already 10 to 16 stacks if you stay in them

[eager mason]

without this I used to just go blind on weapons

which was another conditional

[flint turret]

yeah this addition ws pretty good

i used to sometimes get it from MM tree on other masteries

but after they broke concentration its not really viable anymore

there is literally nothing else to get there if you are not mm

[eager mason]

talking about concentration another conditional

[flint turret]

i liked it mostly for 200 flat dodge

but it decreasing your damage now is a crime

[eager mason]

it might be 1 point on damage angle

and click the rest

[flint turret]

thats what i did last time on my bd

[eager mason]

but ofc you need to click other stuff

[flint turret]

but still

[potent rune]

Concentration its self gives dr even though you aint using bow?

[eager mason]

when mike talked about it, it working on only bows sounded like what they intended xdd

so they might just change the wording

[flint turret]

didnt test it tbh

there is a chance they broke it too maybe

[potent rune]

I know damage doesn't apply not sure about the dr node

[eager mason]

I remember checking dr on the sheet but couldnt find it

if the ms works the dr probably works too

is my guess

[potent rune]

I find that the flat dodge alone is worth but yeah if at least dr also works makes it less painful

[flint turret]

the main problem is not that it doesnt INCREASE your damage without a bow, the problem that it DECRESES your damage if you are not using a bow

[eager mason]

so just need to check ms

yeah true

[potent rune]

That's kinda dumb it should just not increase thats it rofl

[eager mason]

hey it means I had 16% less damage on the boss kill

so maybe acid flask survives even with nerfs

[potent rune]

Bugged epoch at it again , I guess can't complain lich being bugged after rework

[eager mason]

does silver shroud proc concentration I dont remember

its been 7 months

[potent rune]

I think all the attributes stackers going to eat better next season

[flint turret]

if you actually was getting hit was not 16% but rather 32%

because you was not only not getting extra 16 more but also got 16% less

[eager mason]

I think I got hit by harbinger

and survived with this

[flint turret]

never liked this node

but i guess it makes sense in some cases

[eager mason]

I like it more than this

which a lot of people put 8 points in

[flint turret]

id prefer this one actually

[eager mason]

this one great tho

[flint turret]

this one is great indeed since it works vs dots

[eager mason]

yeah its basically 9% dr and some dodge

[flint turret]

why 9?

[eager mason]

15% of health as endurance threshold, assuming you have 60% endurance is 15*0.6

and ofc assuming you are just life without any ward

[flint turret]

15\0.6, no?

[eager mason]

that would be 25

[flint turret]

yeah and you need to get hit for 25 with 60% dr to lose 15 hp

oh wait

[eager mason]

60% dr applying to 15% of your life pool

you just divide it by 10 and x6

[flint turret]

no its the opposite, just my wording is bad

if you have 100 hp with 60% dr it means your ehp goes up by x2.5 because you will need to get hit for 250*0.4 to lose 100 hp

this time i got it right

[flint turret]

that should have beed 15\0.4 my bad

[eager mason]

you are saying it gives 37% damage reduction

if endurance was 100% it would give 15% reduction

[flint turret]

no i guess thats only if we add extra 15% hp with 60% endu

im still somewhat off

[eager mason]

you have 100 life you get hit by your full life lets say

as you said that 15 becomes 25

so your pool is basically 110

100/110 is 91%

[flint turret]

15 becomes 37

[eager mason]

which means you got 9% dr

[flint turret]

yeah now its right

100/122

i forgot to deduct for hp

[eager mason]

ragu 60% less damage taken applying to 15% of your hp isnt gonna give you 18% less damage taken

it cant give more than 15%

[flint turret]

how

okay lets do the math

100 hp , 60% endu default

20 hp is endu thresh by default

[eager mason]

maybe I am bad at math idk Im confused now

[flint turret]

you get hit and first 80 damage goes into hp and removes it fully

the damage that will kill you will need to be more than 20\0.4=50, because its 50*0.4=20

so far we cool?

[eager mason]

should have done this earlier I guess

is that correct

[flint turret]

not really

ethre sh should be 35

because you have 20 base and nodes add 15

[eager mason]

yeah I mean Im just calculating the 15%

[eager mason]

which is what you got here

[flint turret]

yeah 22% is what ive said

[eager mason]

ok so 18% less

I guess I am bad at math mb

[flint turret]

nah im just terrible at wording

[eager mason]

at least the node is better than I expected and I was already clicking it on all life characters

[eager mason]

20 vs 35

[flint turret]

like i said its 22% increase ehp

[crimson latch]

Rogue tier S? S4?

[agile skiff]

probably unless notes kill something

[dire forge]

more like F for s4, don't know why but i have baaaaaad feelings

[potent rune]

You dont think bladestorm gonna be op for 7 months

Rogue is always s tier to be honest not marksman really but bladedancer with new passives and new primordial chest got quite better ,and falconer is always op specially with stacking stat builds like next league looks like a stat stacking league

I think you got new amulet,you are going to do a stacking dex build and convert said dex into guile has potential since at 200 dex thats like 20% chance to take no damage

[terse jolt]

They'll delete all three masteries, that's how it'll end up F

(2 years later they'll reveal it was a bug but they liked the results so they let it stay)

[eager mason]

wait

its the node

sad that they gave it a % tho

and health gain is annoying

[bold brook]

Do we know what tier that is? I assume pretty high

[eager mason]

probably 7

and max rolled is 100

[agile skiff]

how much stacks of dusk shroud would consuming shadows be giving

[warm zephyr]

1 stack if it rolls the chance successfully (rolled per shadow)

[agile skiff]

how much stacks

[warm zephyr]

i just answered that. do we have a language barrier?

[agile skiff]

in a viable build how much shadows are being consumed per second

like throwing traps on boss gives 75+ 90+ on endgame setup

[rugged pollen]

how long ago was the last time you booted up the game bro?

the last time throwing traps gives you 90 dusk shroud stack was almost 2 years ago

[agile skiff]

my uber abb farmer the season before last got over 90

[rugged pollen]

with divebomb stacking?

i assume you mean something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn6RirQfNxI

and yes it's gone now

[desert bridge]

Okay, using the Doppleganger set, the Shift build where you cast Shadow Cascade at the end. It leaves a shadow at the start, and it consumes them all instantly.

3 shadows using shadow cascade plus your final one? Take the reduced distance on shift so they all overlap and big kaboom?

[agile skiff]

thats dive bomb. not trap.

[flint turret]

Do we know what tier is it?

Considering it's sealed it should be quite low one

[rugged pollen]

it depends on what exactly "consuming" here means

[rugged pollen]

trap throwing dusk shroud stack has been fixed since 1.1 and wouldnt give you anymore then maybe 20+ stacks

dont spread wrong information

[zenith bridge]

Hmm the new set affixes dont impress me tbh

First one is probably a t6 or t7. Second one t4/t5?

[rugged pollen]

i'm more interested in the max health converted to threshold

🤣

[flint turret]

my worst fears came true and they added health on shadow creation on helm set affix just to mess up low life enjoyers

dunno why would they do that tbh

health to thresh corruption seems super good yeah

[rugged pollen]

it could be giga if available on more slots

[flint turret]

if it can roll up to 10% endurance that would allow to cap it with just a blessing alone

without brew belt

also wonder if dusk chance on shadow consume can go over 100%

Either way low life cascade will fall off even more with this tech

[cobalt mantle]

Mike confirmed that over 100% does nothing

or wait, maybe I misremembered

Yep nevermind, can't find it, I was probably thinking of the fork chance

[lime folio]

ya, you probably remember that
#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

[desert bridge]

Well, I don't even really want it specifically for the consume effect, I want it for the shadows created along traversal. Having Shift quad-cast shadow cascade feels like it could be really good.

It would suck if consuming specifically refers to eating shadows with lethal mirage (the only actual "consume" verbiage I can find with shadows)

[rugged pollen]

i'm afraid it would be the case

smoke bomb also has a consume node

iirc the new rend skill also has a consume node

[flint turret]

if this doesnt work for dusk then yeah its mostly useless

unless the new rend build will do fine, the one that consumes shadows for more damage per each

[desert bridge]

hmmm The verbiage there kind of suggests that shadows are "consumed" when they use an ability. "Rather than being consumed immediately" implies that they're still consumed after they use an ability, though that may just refer to Shadow Infusion consuming them

[cobalt mantle]

Yeah, the previous node consumes them

[flint turret]

yeah the wording is kinda vague

[cobalt mantle]

This to me implies shadows are consumed by normal repeating though

[desert bridge]

yeah

[cobalt mantle]

because I'm pretty sure this triggers always

[desert bridge]

I asked in the dev chat

[flint turret]

yeah... but they sometimes call it expire

[desert bridge]

🪦

[flint turret]

this pretty much always trigger too

[cobalt mantle]

Expire might mean consumed or timed out

I don't think the shift return to shadow one procs when your shadow times out

[flint turret]

so how called the process when the shadow is replaced by a new shadow then

is it consume

or is it not

[cobalt mantle]

I'd guess that's expiring also

same as a time out

these should be relatively easy to test in game, I'll see if the two are really different

[eager mason]

Im guessing it works because this portion works

[flint turret]

true

having extra 4 dusk per second just from spamming sync is kinda nice

[eager mason]

having to go life is annoying tho

[flint turret]

not really, id rather go life tbh

i didnt really like the LL setup

[desert bridge]

Do we know what the third piece of the Doppelganger set is? Helm, Relic....

[eager mason]

40% life lost isnt enough to stay ll is it

[cobalt mantle]

Body armor

[desert bridge]

boooooo

Maybe time for Legends Entwined Rogue so you can use a good body armor

[eager mason]

I guess I can test with the bd life on shadow node

[flint turret]

yeah its too much hp i think, its like 400 hp per sync which is a ton

actually its more

its on shadow CREATION

[eager mason]

yeah cant run this either with it

[desert bridge]

Okay but hear me out, this is a great set to use with Xithara's. Lots of life regain that isn't leech or regen 🤔

[cobalt mantle]

Here's the set pieces themselves

[flint turret]

wonder why they made it to give hp on shadow creation even in affix shard

why did they need to mess LL so much

[cobalt mantle]

and body armor's reforged affix is shadow damage and +1 max shadow

[eager mason]

I was thinking about asking for them to change it in dev channel but I dont think its happening

we finally get a rogue set and low life cant use it

[flint turret]

it looks like a ragebait for no reason

give us tech to disable life gained on hit\crit\shadow creation or whatever then

[cobalt mantle]

We have legends entwined

[eager mason]

I never played lethal mirage but isnt this set really good for it

[desert bridge]

Not a terrible reforge, but chest is a big unique slot to give up

Yeah it you use legends entwined to replace the helm, you're in a good spot

[cobalt mantle]

just obviously you lose dusks then, which hurts

[desert bridge]

yeah

[flint turret]

how does it hepl?

[cobalt mantle]

lets you not use the set helm or helm affix

but still gain the full set bonus

[eager mason]

without the helm I would rather not use the set

I dont think its worth it

[flint turret]

yeah

[eager mason]

maybe if you really need the shadows

on like bows

[cobalt mantle]

The shadow creation stuff is build enabling to an extent, but agreed the dusk shrouds are one of the best parts

[flint turret]

set bonus is kinda niche, while dusk on consume is a main appeal imo

its basically ~10-15 dusk upkeep for 1 affix