🧙┃mage

[glad marten]

Let me know if you'd like to chat about this more at some point. I'm around.

Have my LEtools open. My build is woefully incomplete, but comparing a couple of data points:
Spell damage - Me: 175, You: 69 - Me 153% more damage
Increased damage - Me: 2200%, You: 638% - Me 211% more damage (409% more so far)
Skill tree - Me 90% more damage, 14% less damage taken (while at full stacks). I also stack disintegrate faster

So yeah, I think a few changes will have a big impact in your build. The highest damage builds for disintegrate don't stack mana and don't wear ekkidrasil. They instead wear legends entwined ring with a villatria helm + Mad alchemist's ladle + ignivar's, and stack crit and int

Actually, there's another variant that has even more damage than that, but it's more absurd, too.

[desert steppe]

has anyone tried a guile build with surge

[proven haven]

https://tenor.com/view/guile-trash-boo-street-fighter-gif-20909749

lame even the stickers dont work. was thinking it could be cool tbh. also guile -> flame rush -> runic invo

[desert steppe]

does this work with indirect casts?

[glad marten]

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, like 80%. Someone in here will know for sure

[proven haven]

Nop

It sucks to maintain with managuide setups

[sudden kettle]

@proven haven what industry are you in that requires this much math 😂

[proven haven]

Software

I dont use that much math tbf, but its all just logic. Pretty transferable

[robust ledge]

I need to buy this for @proven haven

[proven haven]

My wife did buy me a spreadsheet shirt

Its pog

[robust ledge]

lol

[desert steppe]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/oN2rXJ2K how meme is this

[silk pewter]

Spellblade, Level 100

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Mage (20) / Spellblade (76) / Runemaster (8)

General:

▸ Health: 1,804, Regen: 23.6/s
▸ Mana: 325.79, Regen: 12/s
▸ Ward Retention: 286%, Regen: 168/s
▸ Attributes: 132 Str / 45 Dex / 132 Int / 22 Att / 36 Vit
▸ Resistances: 64% / 44% / 68% / 41% / 41% / 77% / 101%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 46%, Threshold: 361
▸ Dodge Chance: 12% (398)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 71% (6,678)

Used skills:

Static / Flame Ward / Firebrand / Enchant Weapon

[desert steppe]

spell-based lightning firebrand build with static

plus some fire aura because it gets it for free

[proven haven]

Oh the fire damage is multiplicative with each stack, so 1.7x for 9 stacks, kinda not bad

[desert steppe]

yeah it's pretty weird, I don't know of any other skills that has each stack's multiplier be in their own bucket

[proven haven]

The resist is kinda cool too. I didnt look at spell blade much but that has a lot of fire aura or wildfire synergy. I feel like static is a tough one to make work though.

LB gets like 240 int plus ladle so 140 plus flat * 1.48 and static still kinda meh. Even with LB able to proc it multiple times per second

I think static needs another damage multi or something

Potentially great for stun locking though

[desert steppe]

would using it to proc lightning blast instead work better 🤔

would mean speccing on the LB node on enchant weapon too, so... 3 blasts per second at max

[proven haven]

Maybe but its not direct cast anyway so its already far fewer hits

LB direct is well over 100 hits per second

[desert steppe]

@_@

yeah nvm then let's try another route 😄

I wonder what other triggered spells I can swap in

frost claw?

[unborn hamlet]

frostclaw will always have the same issue

if its not direct cast, its bad

[proven haven]

It sucks?

Oh yea

We did oneshot uber with it though xd

Its ass because you are using a whole skill slot for less than 1 ish cast of 5 low damage hits with no more multis

Its like a 500% effective spell basically with like 20% more damage

[harsh abyss]

They love putting trigger limits on everything, but it feels like a bandaid. The problem isn't that 20% trigger chance happens too frequently, it's that you can get 400% attack/cast speed so your base hit rate is so insanely high.

[proven haven]

A lot of the stuff doesnt work for indirect too. You are at like baseline 80% power loss for a lot of skills when cast indirectly

[harsh abyss]

yeah

[proven haven]

That and spellblade specifically lacks skill slots. Direct cast spells just do all your damage needs, the rest is mostly utility. SB needs multiple slots for trigger skills and probably one for firebrand and either mana strike, enchant wep, or whatever. Then if you want to fit in a traversal or flame ward rip

[glad marten]

@cloud dew #feedback message

Disintegrate is far from one of the worst skills in the game. And the rotation penalty is really not severe. You can already just spin the beam at max speed and clear things like beacons or unstable rifts

Its goofy as hell, but works just fine. Id honestly prefer the skill have some inertia, more damage for a max rotation speed tradeoff. Would make it less goofy

[cloud dew]

have you killed uber with it

i know the rotation penalty isn't that bad but it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense why it's there

like, i think a lot of the appeal from the skill is to spin around and kill a bunch of stuff

i don't really see why you'd want to take away from the incentive as a developer when there's not much else to the skill in the first place lol

[proven haven]

It's gotta be up there for worst skills in the game, less so for numbers and more so for mechanics

[cloud dew]

like you literally can't move while using the skill, and on top of that the devs would prefer you to just aim in one direction? lol

[proven haven]

The stack thing also kinda sucks. Gotta have an entire second of channel to maintain luco otherwise you go back to zdps

[glad marten]

The rotation penalty is really nbd.i don't even notice it

[cloud dew]

so why is it there?

[glad marten]

So why are you complaining about it

[cloud dew]

if i hit you in the leg but you can still walk just fine do you just say "it's ok cause i can still walk"?

[glad marten]

Spinning it fast is good enough for trash but not for rares, champions, bosses. Seems fine

[glad marten]

Terrible analogy

[cloud dew]

i know and i don't care tbh you're asking why i'm complaining about it that's the answer

[glad marten]

The design purpose of the penalty is clear, and its not so punishing as to be useless

[cloud dew]

you're allowed to think it's fried

it's just how i feel

i think disintegrate is not appealing enough to justify a penalty on spin

[glad marten]

I mean, I feel like I can use direct damage and no fancy interactions to get a skill to 1kC it's not one of the worst skills

[cloud dew]

1kc is like not even a metric really

takes some serious work to make a build not be able to clear 1kc

[proven haven]

Almost every skill intended to do damage and not just be a support can do 1kc

[glad marten]

And I think the lack of appeal in disintegrate has nothing to do with the spin penalty

[glad marten]

Really?

[cloud dew]

like there's people killing aberroth with auto-attack and no skills spec'ed and you really think 1kc is a metric

[glad marten]

Like, for example, elemental nova seems WAY worse to me

[glad marten]

Again, what does that have to do with anything

[proven haven]

I could certainly put together a way faster clearer with e nova

[cloud dew]

what does 1kc have to do with anything? you're the one who brought it up

[glad marten]

With elemental nova being the primary damage dealer? Not spark charges or something else

[glad marten]

Because I felt that lots of other skills cannot do that

[cloud dew]

it's ok to be wrong

p-much everything can do that easily

[proven haven]

Why does it need to be? Thats a weird way to do a comparison. Just because you use Disintegrate in a vacuum doesn't mean you should evaluate other skills in a vacuum. Thats like saying LB sucks because it isnt good without spark charges

[cloud dew]

1kc doesn't even mean anything at all in the first place cause there's so many different things you can be doing on 1k corruption

[glad marten]

I think that's important. How many mage skills are only viable because of fragment of the enigma

[cloud dew]

there's level 2 primalists on 29k corruption

🤷‍♀️

[glad marten]

Bro, I cant even with you. You have the logical capacity of a 6 year old

[cloud dew]

you're the one who @'ed me you don't wanna talk to me don't @ me

[glad marten]

I hear you, frozen, I just think there is a difference between the strength of a skill and the strength of surrounding mechanics

[proven haven]

Thats a meta discussion more than anything. In current season 4 last epoch disintegrate is bad with any combo of items. LB is good with the meta way to play it.

Ele nova is designed around triggers more or less. Its triggered in several different sources.

[glad marten]

Is disintegrate just bad because it doesn't interact well with spark charges? That's such a shitty design space

[proven haven]

No its bad because you stand still to do damage

And it doesnt work well with single tap spam either

If it had a linger effect and you could orb walk it id be more sold

Or a slow movement while channel

[glad marten]

I'm not convinced this is the case unless you could twin stick it. Aim one way, move another

[proven haven]

Yea thats what im getting at

Or it auto aims whatever

I could live with that

[cloud dew]

i mean lucomancer is just poorly implemented

[glad marten]

I have to say that would all kill the skill for me, personally

[proven haven]

Its a meme skill that can work. You can build defense and damage and you can probably clear 2kc if you want

[glad marten]

Lucomancer could have been improved a couple of ways

I don't understand the distinction of a "meme skill"

[cloud dew]

the whole idea that your laser needs to ramp makes for terrible gameplay, EHG created an issue by implementing that ramp and then tried to solve it with lucomancer but failed terribly

[cloud dew]

it's very simple, frozen calls everything a meme so it doesnt get nerfed

black hole one shotting uber? yep that's a meme

[proven haven]

Meme skill in the sense that there is never really an application where you would willingly choose disintegrate over another skill because of its own merits.

[glad marten]

I disagree. I think the ramping is part of the cool fantasy. But there should be better ways to maintain it

[proven haven]

I would never look at a piece of content and say "wow disintegrate would be great for this"

[cloud dew]

i don't see where you disagree though

cause i said it makes for terrible gameplay and you said it's cool fantasy

[glad marten]

So every skill that is not the absolute best in some category is a meme skill?

[cloud dew]

and both can be true at the same time

[glad marten]

I think that's fair

I like the gameplay, personally

[cloud dew]

that's why i asked if you've killed uber with it

because after doing it i can say that

well it was fun but for the wrong reasons

[proven haven]

Its a meme skill because it doesnt really offer ANYTHING top tier to compensate for the extremely bad mechanics of the skill.

[cloud dew]

it was fun because of how hard it was and i guess im a bit of a masochist

[glad marten]

Right... so its a meme if its not top tier

[cloud dew]

the challenge was fun, disintegrate wasn't

[proven haven]

No. You can have like A tier or B tier skill that doesnt really have any massive drawback and that's just its power level

[cloud dew]

like disintegrate is fine in maps cause 1kc is a joke any half assed build can do maps at 1kc but when actually doing "hard" content, the design flaws of the skill really start showing

[proven haven]

I wouldn't call glacier a meme skill. You can build it, be tanky, do okay damage, but its not s tier

Disintegrate is literally that omegalol or whatever firing mah lasar meme

[glad marten]

Ill just say that i think theres a couple of different ways to view skill power level, and "the strongest build that can exist using this skill mostly" is a pretty narrow view

[cloud dew]

there's a million issues with lucomancer but even if i were to disregard the most obvious ones and look at it for what it is, even managing the buff is a terrible experience, on tier 3 disintegrate the only way you can tell that lucomancer has refreshed (i.e. you can 'safely' stop channeling) is to look at your buff bar and monitor that buff

[proven haven]

Black hole is a meme skill because mechanically it kinda sucks. Its a tragic skill tree. You spend so many bad points for a few good ones. You gotta sacrifice a bunch of something to do anything. Some of the nodes inside the tree even have anti synergy with how they are intended to play.

[glad marten]

Its not wrong, it's just narrow

Like... if normal people try to use fireball and just kinda... do what it says on the tin. They're going to get crit, take notes that give more fireballs, give more damage, get some items that scale that damage

[proven haven]

LB is just decent numerically. It has a lot of hits which can have various applications like ailments or triggers. It is ranged. Quick cast time. Instant travel. Etc. Mechanically its really good

[glad marten]

That experience is WAY worse than doing the same with disintegrate

LB is a great skill

I don't really want LB to be the thing im arguing against. LB is actually good even without spark charges

[cloud dew]

i mean it's pretty hard to make a skill feel worse than disintegrate lol

fireball is not a skill that feels worse than disintegrate

numerically it might be worse idk

[glad marten]

Its WAY worse numerically

[cloud dew]

but you can cast some fireballs and keep moving without having to really care much about managing a thousand things

ya sure but numbers are kind of a different topic imo

[glad marten]

You cast some fireballs and everything's still alive

[proven haven]

My point is just that there are good skills full stop. There are good meme skills that may be the best at one thing but flawed somehow. There are bad skills. Then there are meme skills which may be okay at some stuff but having massive drawbacks for no real reason, or a dogshit skill tree

[glad marten]

Numbers are what I'm talking about.

[cloud dew]

alright

[proven haven]

Beam has good numbers though. We agree. Numbers isnt the problem

[cloud dew]

i mean if you're talking about the meme skill thing i guess

[glad marten]

I think in the current state of Last Epoch, disintegrate isn't appropriately rewarded for its significant drawbacks

[harsh abyss]

Channeling (standing still) is such a huge drawback that is never adequately dealt with

[cloud dew]

i mean my mantra for game design is that you should first make a skill fun and then worry about the numbers later

[proven haven]

Yes. But if they give it more damage it just becomes another Uber melter. If they give it defense its just a sad slow noodle.

It needs mechanics

[cloud dew]

and right now it doesnt seem like EHG wants disintegrate to feel fun

[harsh abyss]

AND channeling skills generally suck because they're time gated and not affected by cast speed

[glad marten]

But that's mostly because EHG does a bad job of balancing ancillary effects. Disintegrate is numerically stronger than other skills in its skill tree. But other skills are able to leverage other mechanics to boost their damage

[cloud dew]

which is why i complained about the rotation thing in the first place, all numbers aside

[glad marten]

I just feel like the rotation thing is irrelevant

[cloud dew]

i don't think it's irrelevant i think it's like definitely far from the number 1 thing that are bad with the skill

i was just talking about it cause other ppl were talking about it too

[glad marten]

I LIKE the fantasy of disintegrate. Holding still to deal powerful ramping damage, and having ti manage my windows and positioning

[cloud dew]

🤷‍♀️

[proven haven]

Even if hypothetically beam got 30m dps for free with no investment scaling and I could do whatever I want with the rest of my build I would probably still not want to play it

[glad marten]

Yeah, I mean, that's fine

I want to play it in its current state

Not every skill has to be for everyone

But my biggest complaints are actually just about EHG balance overall and the management of lucomancer

[cloud dew]

ya that's fine if that's what you like about it however i like the idea of being a helicopter and i don't see why the skill has to please you and not me
considering that this game has skill trees that are precisely meant to be modular and support multiple playstyles

[glad marten]

But I helicopter all the time

Like... it still works

[cloud dew]

sure but why is it disincentivized

[glad marten]

Hold the beam still if you want to deal lots of damage to one thing

[cloud dew]

i'm just saying

what if they did it another way

🤷‍♀️

[glad marten]

I think nothing would change

[cloud dew]

like what if there were nodes to support rotations

[glad marten]

I DO want that

[cloud dew]

you're not very creative if you don't think they can make the rotation thing feel different

[glad marten]

I mentioned how I thought it would be cool to actually hard cap rotation rates and trade that for damage

[proven haven]

What if there was a good alternative to killing trash so you just beam really big shit

[cloud dew]

so yeah

clearly you do have ideas

"nothing would change" is probably not an accurate statement

[glad marten]

I guess my feedback, Noobzor, is that I'm surprised to hear people complain about the rotation penalty, because i find it totally irrelevant

[cloud dew]

yes but what i've been trying to explain to you

is that it doesn't matter if it's relevant or not in actual gameplay

what matters is that as a player it feels like the devs are trying to kinda ruin the fun and that feels stupid

like they may have not succeeded

but why are they trying

[glad marten]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

[cloud dew]

that's why we are giving feedback

[cloud dew]

yes i've seen that

like you might think it's irrelevant now but then in a later update maybe they go harder on that angle and then it actually starts mattering

and then it's just pain

that's why we're giving feedback

[glad marten]

I guess you could have given that feedback more clearly, imo

[cloud dew]

the skill is already very clunky in many ways, i would prefer to reduce the clunkiness not add to it

[glad marten]

The feedback sounds like "why won't you let me helicopter" and the response is "you can"

[cloud dew]

maybe that's how it sounds like to you, it might sound different to the devs

i wasn't asking "why won't you let me helicopter"

i was asking "why do you guys not want us to helicopter"

[glad marten]

I just think the helicopter is absurd. I remember posting to reddit back in season one. I think the title was "degenerate gameplay", and it was just me spinning at max speed clearing a beacon. Everything dies in one or two ticks

[desert steppe]

it sounded like "why is it disincentivized when it's already not a great skill" to me

[cloud dew]

yeah i mean that's kinda whatever though

[glad marten]

And the response is not that they don't want us to, but that they want you to deal more damage if you don't

If you focus the beam, it deals more damage

[cloud dew]

have you seen warpath?

warpath is a helicopter that also moves

and it's fully incentivized too

[glad marten]

Yep

I don't want disintegrate to be warpath, personally

[cloud dew]

helicopter disintegrate might look silly but it's ok i don't see why things wouldn't be allowed to be silly when the game has things like warpath, devouring orb freaking rogue as a whole etc

[glad marten]

Disintegrate should be about focusing the beam in one place and holding still. Otherwise it is warpath

[cloud dew]

that's your take

[glad marten]

Oh I agree

[cloud dew]

again, skill trees and modular playstyles etc

i'm not gonna repeat myself

[glad marten]

I just think the game doesn't need warpath twice

[cloud dew]

both playstyles can be supported

you want it one way, other players might want it another way

[glad marten]

With adequate dev time, of course

[glad marten]

Of course

[cloud dew]

well dev time is another story

[glad marten]

Yeah, I'm only sharing my opinion on most of this

[cloud dew]

they'll take the feedback and then see how they address it with the resources they have available

[glad marten]

I'm just saying that its sensible to make two skills distinct

[cloud dew]

that's not really for us to think about

they are distinct

helicopter disintegrate would still be very distinct from warpath

because you can't move while disintegrating

in fact that makes disintegrate very different from almost every other skill in the game

[glad marten]

Right, but people want to change that, too

[cloud dew]

i wouldn't be opposed to it 🤷‍♀️

[glad marten]

Right, see

I'm saying that it's sensible to keep these skills distinct and not to turn every channeling ability into warpath because it has the best utility

[cloud dew]

skills having identity is important but i think EHG can both take feedback and figure out how to not just uniformize everything in the game

[glad marten]

No doubt

I'm just conversing about why I think that's a bad idea

[desert steppe]

we can then make warpath stationary so it's different from the moving helicopter disintegrate

[glad marten]

That, to me, disintegrate sits in an important place in the design space and these changes remove its identity

[desert steppe]

we'll call it warspot

[glad marten]

This is so good

[elfin rapids]

lmao

[desert steppe]

which reminds me, I never played AAR in GD but how did they make it good there

is it just the generally less fastmoving nature of the game

[glad marten]

I just think that like... if disintegrate was changed so that you could move, and twinstick, it would have lost it's identity and I wouldn't play it anymore

[glad marten]

This has been a real cool chat, thanks for everything

Just to be clear, that isn't sarcasm!

[cloud dew]

what i think is that they should do something about arcane ascendance if they want to support the "stand still for firing mah lazor" playstyle

there's already a skill in mage that roots you in place to get a damage reward

unfortunately spellblade is currently the preferred choice for disintegrate which makes arcane ascendance incompatible

and even if you could use arcane ascendance, it's still not very interesting mechanically as it's just a 24% more dmg stat stick for the most part

so imo if they want to lean into the clunky "stand still to melt bosses" playstyle they should take some of it out of the skill baseline and put it into some AA synergies

[glad marten]

Dude arcane ascendance is SO BAD. Where are you getting the 24% more damage from?

[cloud dew]

damage to slowed enemies

8% per point

arcane ascendance is great just not very interesting it's just a stat stick as i said

you put 3 points in the tree and the rest is cosmetic

🤷‍♀️

[glad marten]

I couldn't agree more with this

Arcane ascendance SHOULD be the design space for this

[cloud dew]

the skill is clearly outdated and needs a redesign

[left hill]

hot take Enchant weapon should be carved up and baked into the passive tree (between existing nodes, new nodes, and threshold bonuses) and Fire Aura should become a specializable Mage skill

[cloud dew]

a lot of nodes are just like "wow you get 5% increased damage" when nowadays characters are going into 3000% increased damage if not tenfold that amount for some absurd outliers

maybe those nodes were good in ancient times but in the current meta they're pretty much cosmetic

[glad marten]

Worth pointing out the disintegrate cant reliably apply the slow for the AA node

[cloud dew]

not on its own but it can

i mean you can if you build properly

[glad marten]

It takes a LOT

[cloud dew]

but yeah that's additional clunk

[glad marten]

BTW im running sorcerer for disintegrate

But arcane ascendance is so bad and I kinda need the other skills

[cloud dew]

i think that's troll but you don't strike me as a meta player so you might not care

[glad marten]

Are you spellblade for prodigy and ignivars?

[cloud dew]

is prodigy the passive node?

but yes ignivar's

[glad marten]

Yeah, crit for int

[cloud dew]

i think it would be better if sorc was meta for disintegrate

[glad marten]

I mathed it all out s2, I have about 8x more EHP than a spellblsde built but about half the damage

[elfin rapids]

Glyph of Dominion > Arcane Ascendancy for Disintegrate, not only that, Runemaster has a lot of more multipliers that Sorc doesn't, and defensive stuff too. Poor Sorc.

[cloud dew]

ya i could see that

if you know me at all you know i dont really care about hp

[glad marten]

Sorc is surprisingly more damage than RM for my build

And thr damage dealt to mana from sorc tree is pretty mandatory

Not entirely, but almost

[left hill]

fridge thought: merge Elemental Nova and Fire Aura into one thing (Fire Aura skill behavior, Elemental Nova tree with some tweaks to the Hit & Crit nodes)

[glad marten]

My nominee for the WORST skill passive in the game: Power Overload

"You are granted increased spell damage each second while arcane ascendance is active

1% increased per second per point"

Wtf EHG

[cloud dew]

it used to have some usecases when you were able to "move" with AA up

[left hill]

"but imagine if you stood completely still for 10 minutes!" /j

[cloud dew]

now it's straight up useless since AA deactivates when you use movement abilities

well i guess technically there are still usecases when you dont need to move (arena or some shit?)

but it's not aberroth compatible anymore

[cloud dew]

i mean yeah that was the usecase

that's what EHG intended it for i guess

[desert steppe]

I mean this exists

[cloud dew]

ye lmfao

why is that even still in the game

it's 2026

i dont understand

[desert steppe]

idk man

I feel like these are things they could make some quick fixes or something

instead of saving them for yet another big change in 5 seasons

[cloud dew]

a lot of nodes in the game (whether it's passives or skill trees) just feel like bloat to make the game feel bigger than it actually is

"when you need to write a 300 words essay" type beat

[harsh abyss]

That always reminds me of the weaver ring

When is that EVER going to happen?

[cloud dew]

except this one actually has a real usecase now

[elfin rapids]

Corrupted Form

[cloud dew]

and i'm saying usecase like it's niche but it's not really niche

(lich rework)

unfortunately that ring is still very much not meta in the lich endgame imo but at least that mod makes really good for progression

too much effort and it's not a job for the playerbase

it's something EHG is most likely already doing

[elfin rapids]

Since you guys are (were) talking about Disintegrate, i just want to voice how i hate the Twinbeam node. You get 1 buff (double damage that is not actually double) but 2 drawbacks (almost double channel cost and a nerf to your double damage that ends up doing 1.4)

You need 5 pathing points to get this node while Stored Power need 2 pathing points, gives more damage (x1.5) and a small cast delay drawback.

[cloud dew]

disagree with a lot of things here

[glad marten]

Yeah, me too

[cloud dew]

you say 5 pathing points i want to say 2 pathing points (are we really saying 30% more damage is "pathing" nodes? that's what you want to be taking)

[glad marten]

1. the pathing nodes are very strong
2. there is a node that completely removes the mana cost
3. more damage for more mana cost is kinda the skills thing

[cloud dew]

and the presentation might be weird but at the end of the day it really just says "+40% more dmg, costs more mana"

[glad marten]

The other is less damage taken, also something you definitely want

[cloud dew]

the presentation is for flavor really

[cloud dew]

maybe you do, personally i dont care about it

[elfin rapids]

I mean, you have a point. But considering that your skill points are limited and there are other nodes that deals more damage than 10% per point, then maybe i have a point too, it all depends how many skill points you have i guess.

[elfin rapids]

Okay, but it is x1.4 damage for x1.9 mana cost lol

[glad marten]

32% less damage taken for four points is nutty

[cloud dew]

i mean in a way it can be seen in a similar way to the threshold nodes in passives: "small effect for your first 3 points, big effect on your 4th point"

[cloud dew]

yeah no i can see the appeal but we play the game differently

the way i play the game i do not care about incoming damage

[glad marten]

Yeah, I hear you

[cloud dew]

at all

but yeah it's not the worst travel node in the game

[glad marten]

How do you not care about incoming damage

32% less damage is better than the DR from 2 red rings and a shattered worlds

[cloud dew]

i play the game in a very pragmatic way, what i do in the game right now basically is just speedrun uber kills (that's just what i find fun in the current state of the game)

so either i'm fully building for damage for that fight in particular

or i'm playing warpath/rogue one shots because that's what's going to be most efficient to help me farm the next build

[glad marten]

Oh. Well. You're not doing that with disintegrate

[cloud dew]

i did

under 1 minute uber is possible

with disintegrate

[glad marten]

And its one of the worst skills in the game?

[cloud dew]

i said that before

[glad marten]

I didn't know anyone had cleared Uber with disintegrate

[cloud dew]

the fight was very enjoyable because i'm a freaking masochist i guess and it was challenging however, the gameplay itself was the clunkiest i'd experienced

[glad marten]

I genuinely think this game is so ridiculously stupid at the top end

[cloud dew]

officially nobody has since i've used "forbidden techs" that we can't talk about here if you know what i mean but maybe i'll officially claim a kill this season

just not too sure cause i've already done like 10 builds this season and at this point i'm kind of tired of corrupting items

[cloud dew]

also ye it might or might not be worth it depending on what you're doing

it was worth it for me but thankfully the game doesn't force you to take the node

[elfin rapids]

It doesn't force me, doesn't change the fact that the drawback is higher than the reward.

[cloud dew]

panda mentioned you can make the mana cost free so that's debatable

and 1.9x might be > 1.4x

but that doesn't mean drawback is higher than reward

if somehow your mana sustain is infinite, it could cost 100x more mana and the 1.4x more damage would still be worth it

[elfin rapids]

But i agree with you about the pathing points, i was not being reasonable with it.

[elfin rapids]

But then you have to play lightning instead of fire. I mean, you could still play fire, but your sustain would be very clunky.

[cloud dew]

yeah

in my situation the node was worth it

but yes the sustain was clunky

[harsh abyss]

Attunement stacking disintegrate runemaster would probably be absurd

with Xylem

[elfin rapids]

If only Disintegrate got +4% increased damage per Attunement

[harsh abyss]

yeah

[desert steppe]

was there any way to auto proc Static when it reaches max stacks

[harsh abyss]

It's instant cast, so take the node that makes it have a longer cooldown but reset cooldown when it hits max stacks and hold the button down?

[elfin rapids]

numlock the thing

[harsh abyss]

yeah, that too

[desert steppe]

oh it was instant cast?

[harsh abyss]

yeah, Static is always instant cast

[desert steppe]

I guess numlock is fine then

I tried numlocking flame reave and it kinda stuttered my move

💀

[nimble shoal]

Yeah, numlocking non-instant stuff is not very nice feeling

[glad marten]

How big of a difference does the forbidden tech make?

[cloud dew]

i mean you know what i mean by that right

[cloud dew]

check your DMs rofl

[robust junco]

How long was your Uber kill on Disintegrate ?

[cloud dew]

1m07s with some bad play at the end (took me i think 2 hours to route the fight, 1m07s was my first kill and i left it there but the last phase was bad so u can shave another 10-15 seconds off)

[robust junco]

Oo

This is really surprising

[cloud dew]

i'll just say that gearing for a sub 1 minute uber on disintegrate isn't unrealistic by any means (in fact a lot of people have much better gear for their characters than what i used)

however the uber fight itself is not for the faint of heart

the build is very clunky

[robust junco]

Do you have a planner?

I am really curious

[cloud dew]

i'll DM you the planner

[elfin rapids]

DM me too

[hybrid girder]

most of the low level high c you see in the ladder are confluence of oblivion memes

[cloud dew]

of course lol

[harsh abyss]

You should share it in the channel, I want to see too 😝

[robust junco]

I mean, the planner itself is most likely not against TOS

We should won't talk how you got there 😁

[cloud dew]

i mean the planner is just a planner

i just dont want to share it until i actually make the character (yes yes it's cringe sue me)

i play MG this season so if ppl play my own shit before i do, im just griefing myself 🤷‍♀️

[strange needle]

Sometimes the sauce needs to be hidden still

[spring crag]

@cloud dew I wonder

which is the best weapon for flame reave?

sword catcher or Jasper's Searing Pride or eye of reen+firestarter torch?

[spring crag]

@cloud dew just want to ask

did you do lightning or fire distintegrate?

[robust junco]

Fire

[spring crag]

you can DM me if you want

the only way I know to play distingrate is ignite

but it sucks

[hybrid girder]

in order of raw damage: cleaver+reen, traitor tongue+reen, sword catcher, bhuldar, black blade, jaspers. god-tier scissor is almost as good as reen. easiest to farm are traitor tongue, sword catcher and jaspers

depends a bit on your preferred setup. if you want to run titan heart, then stick to a 2h. i suspect black blade would beat sword catcher if you took lightning flame reave and went dex stack but the problem is getting all the more multipliers and crit multi to get to max damage

[spring crag]

firestarter torch>>butcher cleaver

42% more dmg we have here

also why do you think cleaver>traitor?

since traitor let you have +4 skills and has huge melee crit multi

and flame reave is quite point hungry

traitor also has faster base attack speed than cleaver

for sword catcher, I am refering to the brutality+rampancy stack trick that people are doing to speedrun uberroth (including noobzor)

which makes it one of the strongest raw damage weapon currently

I just don't know how its dmg compares to some dual wield choices

such as reen+firestarter torch for fire

[hybrid girder]

its lack of flat and crit multi doesnt overcome its 1.4 more multiplier. its not bad though. cleaver beats out traitor by a hair due to the extra increased you get from str -> int. but the bis option with cleaver+reen leaves too short on points for flame reave so thats why i just gave it up. you have to run it with naal or scissor to get the points you need. i want sword catcher to be good so much but its too far behind dual wield but it is the best 2h in terms of damage

im running brutality rampancy and do uber in about 45s

[spring crag]

extra increased you get from str -> int?

[spring crag]

flat is slammed in affix

[hybrid girder]

cleaver makes int == str and gives +1 all skills. flame reave scales with dex+int so you get alot of extra increased making it very strong

[spring crag]

I dont think it lacks flat

if you have good flat slam then the flat in cleaver is negligible

[hybrid girder]

let me run the number rq on firestarter

[spring crag]

but isn't it is way easier to stack pure int for mages instead of str?

[robust junco]

But then you could use Brutality too, no?

[spring crag]

yeah but I'm not sure it is better than firestarter currently

lich is a special case because it gives pen per int

but int in flame reave is not that useful

[robust junco]

Well it gives Inc Dmg and Crit chance

[spring crag]

hmm

it depends on your gear

if you can cap crit chance then no need more int

hard to say here tbh

[hybrid girder]

yeah im wrong firestarter+reen is better

[hybrid girder]

it synergizes with brutality. exulis brutality+rampancy

[spring crag]

yeah still depends on the gear tbh

if you can cap crit chance then no need for any more int

very hard to say

[hybrid girder]

so with my 110 strength it gives a 1.26 more multiplier and 70 int in addition

makes it very competitive

[spring crag]

firestarter is very strong

[hybrid girder]

yeah its like 3m more than traitor-tongue + reen

[spring crag]

since 42% more multiplier is no joke

[hybrid girder]

well

thats a bis firestarter+reen

[spring crag]

now for 2h comparison

jasper gives insane flat here

[hybrid girder]

however bis traitor+bis reen beats out firestarter

[spring crag]

if you stack a lot of vitality to have good attack speed

[hybrid girder]

i want jasper to be good but i havent over come the armor shred problem

have to drop 30% speed to get it on gloves if i want exulis

[spring crag]

hmm for bis what affix did you use?

if you use no flat dmg affix then of course traitor is better

[hybrid girder]

bis on traitor tongue and reen is crit multi, shred and fire is a close 3. the best corruption is usually +melee/more dam per str but the more dam and crit multi arent far behind

[spring crag]

ah ok

[hybrid girder]

with rampancy scaled up to 600% frenzy you get alot of flat which makes flat less valuable

if you dont do rampancy then flat become much more important

[spring crag]

I do rampancy

[hybrid girder]

trusight with shred is very strong with jasper bc you can get 30% speed on gloves

[spring crag]

since flame reave is basically untouchable in corruption

so damage is its best option

for shatterstrike I think dual wield is the best

since you need as many attack speed as possible to trigger the bloody nib's cold pen thing

and you wont benefit much from flat from catcher

since you have a lot of flat from dex already

[hybrid girder]

yeah i thought that too, but this guy https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/SueNoah/character/XiaoShuNing pushed 3k corruption with black blade

[spring crag]

lightning is a different story

[hybrid girder]

yeah hes got a 130% more multiplier essentially on a lightning shatter strike which is strong

[desert steppe]

I'm surprised catcher is that far behind DW, with all the flat it's providing with rampancy

[spring crag]

Idk I have not tried it

ask @hybrid girder if he tested sword catcher with rampancy/brutality already

[desert steppe]

I mean I'm basing it on ichi's comment above

[spring crag]

that's basically my question here

[desert steppe]

I was guessing that it would be very competitive

[spring crag]

yeah but he did not say everything about what affix/conditions he used to test

like was all tests conducted under brutality/rampancy

and which skill did he undo for each type of weapon

[desert steppe]

[spring crag]

from what I see so far

[hybrid girder]

for a bis sword catcher with my current gear its 30m dps and with my non bis traitor+reen i'm at 37m dps

thats accounting for the extra more mutpliers you can get with sword catcher

[spring crag]

okay

did you stack a lot of vitality for sword catcher?

since sword catcher scales with frenzy

[hybrid girder]

i'm at 135 vita and 126 str (mapping gear)

[spring crag]

ok, that is a lot here

[hybrid girder]

same story in uber gear at 150 vita

[spring crag]

if so then traitor+reen is indeed better

[hybrid girder]

what makes it so strong is t5 armor shred is 300% which is pretty much the max you can get before diminishing returns

but i was sad that is that far behind dw as it is so perfect for rampancy

[spring crag]

hmm

from the maths I see

[hybrid girder]

its mostly lagging bc the slow speed and the 20% attack speed from the dw passive

[spring crag]

for jasper

[desert steppe]

ah right, the 0.89 base aspd

[spring crag]

if you have sufficient attack speed to have 50+ stacks

then jasper is roughly equal to sword catcher

[hybrid girder]

a great build for jasper is what burnchoy runs with truesight and firebrand. he does uber in like 45s also https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/bokchoy/character/Burnchoy

i havent played with firebrand bc of the mana problem

[spring crag]

every melee+mana build is best with fang of the berserker

[hybrid girder]

the more multiplier is so strong

[desert steppe]

do you even need it to be mana tbh

just fang + rampancy alone is so strong

[hybrid girder]

in uber gear its a 120% more multiplier

yeah mana strike hits so fast htat it instantly takes you to full mana

[spring crag]

depends on how many multiplier you currently have

I mean

this game never let you have bis gear

so hard to compare

[hybrid girder]

yea you have to reroll fangs to make sure it has 15% more on it is all

so you need to buy at least 5-10 to get there

[spring crag]

nah what I mean is

it never let you reach the ceiling you can get from your gear

[hybrid girder]

ah i see what you mean lol. yeah its killing me

[spring crag]

so every comparison is not very meaningful

for example

in grim dawn

you can get all the argument and components you want

and you cannot get anything more than that

so comparison is better

[desert steppe]

my double rare MI tho

[spring crag]

in this game there is no ceiling that could serves as a metric

[hybrid girder]

need to give grim dawn a try

[spring crag]

I am waiting for their 1.3 release

to make fire beastcaller work

so I just jump to here meanwhile

[desert steppe]

yeah I'm really tempted to jump back in

but might as well wait a little

[spring crag]

grim dawn?

[desert steppe]

yeah

new expansion gonna add a lot

[spring crag]

well I am excited for double hellhound

@hybrid girder tbh for grim dawn if you are used to play a lot of game with good visual like LE you may be not used to it first

but its build variety is way better than LE

way more balanced

and it has a more dedicated team for ranking builds

anyway @hybrid girder truesight glass=120 crit multiplier in average

if you have 400+ crit multi then that is only about 25% more dmg

so depends on your crit multi

to get whatever is best

and also depend on the lp of your gear

[hybrid girder]

makes sense that it tapers off. i like how balanced that build is in terms of defense. but picking a direction to optimize has been easier for me (damage versus tanky). with flame reave i've started using 4x area grand idols for mapping so i die less in 1kc+

[spring crag]

if you have 400+ crit multi and 100+ vitality then from maths frenzy belt should give more dmg

way more

[hybrid girder]

the frenzy scaling flat fire and the more multiplier are so juicy for damage

trying to finagle ways to get it higher (like 200 vita+)

[spring crag]

nah

200+ vita is impossible

[hybrid girder]

probably true

[spring crag]

at least for mage

[hybrid girder]

hmm whats the max

[spring crag]

you can have 5 affix and that is still impossible

ah sry

[hybrid girder]

yeah 200ish is the max

[spring crag]

it is possible

but very unlikely

[hybrid girder]

it might require sword catcher or traitor + scissor/naal though

[spring crag]

24+10+14 from core of the mountain+all stats corrupted affix

16+9 from somlia

24 from 2 momentum ring

6 from swaddling

12+16 from foot of the mountain

10 from shattered world

40 x 1.82 from 8 humble idols with an altar with max t7 prefix and suffix effect + max t7 prefix effect

@hybrid girder the result is 24+10+14+16+12+12+6+12+16+10+5x8x1.82+9=213

[hybrid girder]

vitality to the moon ❤️

[spring crag]

I'm not aware of any better way

problem is

you can only realistically get them offline

all the values above require maximal unique mod/affix values

[hybrid girder]

yeah im pretty close. teh core of the mountain farm is sweaty

would probably run occulus of ruin or red ring

but right now oceareon and siphon are more damage

and i need sunwreath for mapping

[spring crag]

yeah then you will never get 200 vit

[hybrid girder]

why is offline easier? (sorry havent played offline)

[spring crag]

offline let you modify gear to get max affix

[hybrid girder]

wat

crazy

[spring crag]

I mean the save file is a text file

[hybrid girder]

thats so fun

[spring crag]

well

in grim dawn

most builds are actually tested via gd stash

but things like that are way more accepted in grim dawns

since gears there are easier to farm

in other words you can realistically get the gears you created from gd stash

which is the ceiling gear

so using things like gd stash is more accepted there

[hybrid girder]

200 doesnt seem too bad. +24 in chest puts me at 175. chest corruption 185. 2x red ring 192. swap to scissor (7ish vita) and pretty much there

(forgot about sscissor)

[spring crag]

I did not know scissor exists

[hybrid girder]

the scissor farm is probably the sweatiest thing in the game that i know of

[spring crag]

oh sh*t

scissor is weaver item

so you will unlikely get whatever affix you want

[hybrid girder]

but its an easy farm: lostwood folly around 100? 200? 300x?

so the odds of getting shred/multi/fire/pen and landing the corruption

like decent ones arent out of reach with some flat and one of shred or multi

[spring crag]

ah ok

then it's good

[hybrid girder]

headed to bed, great theory crafting sesh ❤️

[spring crag]

@hybrid girder okay

firetorch+eye or reen>jasper

that's my test for flame reave

fortunately I only have 2 fire melee builds

otherwise it would be tiresome

other fire build is crit judgement

but that thing is very skill point hungry

so cannot have firetorch+eye of reens

sword catcher is required for it

now

what would be the best pair for shatter strike

[graceful glen]

just catcvhing up on all the flame reave weapon talk but its defnitely interesting that firestarters is so strong

i stopped for teh season but i was running double scrissors with half decent stats but my damage was meh

I think scaling brutality etc is really a bigger difference than the weapon

[hybrid girder]

just tested it with a reen w/out the fire damage on flame reave and traitor+reen for still was the best. the 150% crit multi with max stacks of the reen buff is too powerful. however for mapping i average around 5-7 stacks naals and my okay scissor do the same damage. looking at the shatter strike tree it has similar skill point investments to get max damage as flame reave (33 +-1 for cold shatter strike) so the naal/scissor setup would be enticing

[dark pulsar]

is there anything else for mage/spellblade for Void other than Volcanic Orb with the Refuge spear?

[left hill]

mediocre void Fire Aura 😅

[dark pulsar]

That old one with Shadow Beacon 2H hammer and Dark Shroud body armor or is there something else for that? 😄

[left hill]

was just thinking of the rough spreadsheet i dusted off at start of season with Glyph Mana Stacked Shroud & Last Refuge as well as a dual wield Void Melee Damage swords w/Corrupted Melee->Spell spellblade version I whipped up for comparison before shelving both because they both looked so bad on the numbers for insane gear investment

was just like 'why do this to myself to get in the best case like 25M pre-DR dps when I could just do lightning shatter strike'

[dark pulsar]

Yeah some Shatter Strike sounds pretty cool... I just need something cool looking, strong, not insanely grindy to gear up... the 1.4 burnout is kicking hard

[left hill]

Shatter Strike is good & reliable for that. Only part that gets tricky is finding the spot where you're tanky enough to be able to put on Diothaen's without getting yourself killed by it eating into your ward gen lol

Flame Reave is also really good now

[dark pulsar]

Oh so Shatter isnt locked to 1H weapons... so I could throw in some Orb Weaver, Abandoned set for the bonus for some funky build 🤔

[dark pulsar]

I guess Exsan should solve that issue?

[left hill]

yeah, that's one option

[dark pulsar]

I cant say I could be very excited from Shattered Strike skill tree tbh 🤔

[vivid wolf]

Any recommendations for farming gold as CoF? Need about a million just playing with builds hahaha

[dark pulsar]

Gold nodes in Weaver tree; vendoring uniques and sets - rings from prophecies are fairly easy... possibly the gold drop blessing, but eh, I'd rather stick to extra xp for more favour

[left hill]

yeah, it's mostly just "do more damage" without many gameplay hooks other than the repeat nodes (since those also affect on-hit triggers and stuff) or if you go off into Frostbite path

like, very solid for its damage, but also doesn't really change much as you progress

[hybrid girder]

farm ring prophecies for vendoring

[vivid wolf]

Farming prophecies for vendoring? How do you mean? Like picking a ton of cheap set/unique items prophecies just to sell the rewards yeah? Would jewelry or something else be more effecient? Just curious, sorry for all the questions I want to learn all the things from folks who've been playing

[strange needle]

This is a really bad take and you shouldn't do it imo,you want gold get the gold blessing from empowered monolith with the abomination timeline boss,also get a node in weaver tree that spawns a npc called zerrick that makes gold drops be a lot higher and this also helps with getting bones for the primordial items vendor since for some reason gold boost ,boost bones and its a relevant thing to know

Selling stuff is pointless in this game, just play do maps , the faster you clear map ,the more gold you will get with time.

[hybrid girder]

its a terrible conversion tbh, but since all players need good rings you can just keep them all and vendor. would work for amulets also (uniques for both obvi)

[strange needle]

I have like 280 million gold as cof and most of it came like last season ,while being at max 200 tabs ,doing stuff like unclaimed troves and folly or temples is pretty good income wise

[hybrid girder]

oh nice strat. theres also bosses if you have lots or harbinger eyes, temporal keystones or threshold

honestly ive been tempted to swap to MG for a little bit to get gold capped so i could farm lightless dungeon for havocs and max stash

[strange needle]

I was dirty poor as cof scrapping for tabs and getting gold blessing plus zerrick made me rich in like 2 months time, i am waiting for a true gambler to spend gold

[spring crag]

hmm

for fire distintegrate

@cloud dew did you use ingite?

I can't see how to make it work

[spring crag]

Hi @proven haven in this build I wonder how to get 282 ignite duration here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klqw2fe-n1U&t=89s

According to what I see you have 52 from helm, 4 x 25 x 1.5+20 from idols

so the value would be 222

is there any other source of ignite duration that I'm not aware of?

Ah there is 40% ignite duration in chronomancy

so it will be 262

ah, there is enchant weapon

so now the sum is 287%

[desert steppe]

@spring crag @hybrid girder would the flame reave weapon calcs differ if you're only running rampancy without brutality

[glad marten]

No, he didn't. I'm familiar with the build if you have questions

[spring crag]

yes, my knowing of the build is to use spellblade and stack int and spell crit chance

however I fail to see how it could become good

[glad marten]

I mean, you just stack a lot of crit, spell damage (mostly from idols), and all of the more damage from the tree takes care of the rest

Also using sacrificial embrace gloves to get big damage

Pretty much all of his mods were spell crit or int

Int for prodigy passive

And scaling fire damage of disintegrate

[spring crag]

oh I did not think of this

[glad marten]

But the build is functional without it, I think.

Only one node in disintegrate tree is fire damage specific. The int one

[spring crag]

I wonder if hand of judgement is better

[glad marten]

For the fire pen? Definitely not

Sacrificial embrace gives 200 spell damage

Also I think atrophy outperforms hand of judgement

[spring crag]

actually no

it's just equal

24 vs 25

[glad marten]

Unless you have any other type of spell damage. But that mostly comes from sacrificial embrace, sooo

I agree

I just think the other stats on atrophy are more useful, but only a bit

[stone rapids]

the main benefit of hand of judgement honestly would be the lower LPL

[spring crag]

it's just time rot and slow thing

[glad marten]

Yeah, I was gonna say

Not a ton of high value glive affixes for the build

Get some nice defenses

I run double suffix on my atrophy gloves for my disintegrate build

Well, no, I guess I have t7 mana because I'm mana stacking. But thats useless for fire build

[spring crag]

weapon would be firestarter or mad ladle?

[glad marten]

Mad ladle

[elfin rapids]

If you want to run pure fire then another gloves option would be Grasp of the Blood Mage for +4% base crit.

[spring crag]

yeah this seems nice too

[glad marten]

That would be better than everything except sacrificial embrace

It nearly DOUBLES your damage

With proper setup

[elfin rapids]

But i think Hand of Judgement would be best because you already have a lot of crit from Int + Shattered Worlds + Weaver Set Amulet, now you need to build other offensive stats like pen.

Unless you ALSO already have a lot of fire pen.

But i'm assuming you don't.

[spring crag]

umm this one is set crafted right?

or the original set item?

since the crit chance per attributes can be done via crafting

nvm

I think it's the original set item right?

since distintegrate is quite point hungry too

[glad marten]

The build used the wings of discord to get maximum spell damage affix value, and used sacrificial embrace to crank that higher

Flat spell damage is a significant need for the build to deal damage, so a lot of the optimization goes thst direction.

[spring crag]

yes but I mean the weaver set amulet

which version to use here

@glad marten cast speed is irrelevant right?

since the node "stored power" has cast speed thing

for belt

it will be between immolator and oriant here

also

how do you gain abyssal rite stack?

since you cannot crit with disintegrate

[robust junco]

You need another spell that can hit

Like ice Barrage or Frostwall proccing lightning blast

[glad marten]

Effectively yes

[spring crag]

ah ok

@glad marten no need to scale cast speed tight?

since I can actually scale them via int afaik

[glad marten]

There's a small start up cast time than can be alleviated with cast speed

But it doesnt scale dps like a traditional skill

[spring crag]

hmm

so for affixes

int and spell crit chance all the way to go

for helmet

do you recommend peak of the mountain

or boneclamor?

@glad marten does this distinergrate skill point make sense https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/7aam5503

ah, in the best case I can have 27 skill points https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/3aaxxh0u

using BIS

[elfin rapids]

I theorycrafted a pure fire disintegrate last season, now i've updated it with stuff from current season. Didn't test it, but don't need to know that Noobzor version is more powerful, mine is supposed to be more all-around. Here the planner: https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BZ3Y75Dj

[silk pewter]

Spellblade, Level 100

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Mage (20) / Sorcerer (17) / Spellblade (55) / Runemaster (21)

General:

▸ Health: 1,394, Regen: 27.2/s
▸ Mana: 481.19, Regen: 16.8/s
▸ Ward Retention: 527%, Regen: 356/s
▸ Attributes: 43 Str / 68 Dex / 232 Int / 53 Att / 49 Vit
▸ Resistances: 79% / 75% / 103% / 90% / 90% / 101% / 125%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 53%, Threshold: 300
▸ Dodge Chance: 15% (506)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 52% (3,407)

Used skills:

Disintegrate / Firebrand / Flame Ward / Flame Rush / Frost Wall

[spring crag]

@elfin rapids wait

is twin beam necessary?

[elfin rapids]

Well, it's 40% more damage, unfortunately it adds a huge and unfair mana cost. It's the kinda of thing you can remove for clearing maps.

[harsh abyss]

Or use it with the Lightning version

[hybrid girder]

yeah. you lose the brutality more dam (26% at 122 strength). my current dps drops from 21m to 17m

[desert steppe]

I mean does it change the weapon combo ranking/priority

[hybrid girder]

it doesnt look like it from a quick test. sword catcher > jasper. cleaver+reen/firestart/reen and trait/reen are all very close

[desert steppe]

thanks 👍

and the dual wields still performing above the two handers?

[hybrid girder]

yeah still very strong. i fixed a few more bugs in my math that was over inflating the damage and now it matches what i see on uber without 1m dps

within*

[desert steppe]

oh yeah one last thing, what LP levels did you use for the test?

[hybrid girder]

LP1, LP2, LP3

my last test i looked close at the affix priority

pen shred and crit-multi came out on top. flat fire and speed were not far behind though

a random interesting finding was that flame caller wasnt 50% less on mobs. its 37% less except for ryhtm of fire

[desert steppe]

huh, that's surprising

[hybrid girder]

setting up to slam LP3 traitor tongues so trying figure out whether pen or multi gets the T7

[desert steppe]

that's against pointblank hit damage for the initial hit right?

and for rhythm the less damage is different too?

[hybrid girder]

yeah im not sure what the range is for point black 1m? 2m? rhythm is 50% less on return

we want to be at max point blank range for bosses was a nother random finding. the return wave has this weird random thing where it eands somewhere in between 1-2m away from where you are standing so if you are standing point blank something like 20% wont return hit

havent tested it super close though

[desert steppe]

so many weird interactions 😄

[hybrid girder]

srs

[glad marten]

I think its funny to call it an unfair mana cost when there is an entire alternate build that removes the mana cost entirely but that build is considered weaker. Sounds like the increase in mana cost is fair if people still take the node

[dark pulsar]

Is this bugged? 🤔

[left hill]

I don't think so, but maybe in some subtle way I haven't encountered or noticed

[dark pulsar]

She died too fast...

[dark pulsar]

@versed hawk its not much so far, but for a blind home cook build its quite fun 😄 attack speed is wild
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BgRXX6Rv

[silk pewter]

Spellblade, Level 46

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Mage (20) / Spellblade (38)

General:

▸ Health: 802, Regen: 8.09/s
▸ Mana: 180.23, Regen: 10/s
▸ Ward Retention: 99%, Regen: 40/s
▸ Attributes: 11 Str / 18 Dex / 34 Int / 9 Att / 9 Vit
▸ Resistances: 57% / 51% / 100% / 74% / 9% / 70% / 18%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 160
▸ Dodge Chance: 23% (429)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 28% (706)

Used skills:

Mana Strike / Shatter Strike / Flame Ward / Enchant Weapon

[versed hawk]

That orb weaver is hilarious lol

Once you dual wield with double t7 attack speed swords it's even nuttier

[dark pulsar]

Yea I wish I had one with attack speed and cold damage or something, but it is what it is... 😄

[dark pulsar]

Big plays and corrupt?

[zinc pewter]

RNGesus blessed me

[dark pulsar]

Bricking something like this would just ruin my weekend... 😄

[zinc pewter]

The guy on #👑┃item-showcase bricked this same item. same affixes

I missed 4 slams T7/T6 (int/crit.mult) on the relic though.

[dark pulsar]

eh, Nib doesnt work because Exsan makes me immune to bleed...?

[vivid wolf]

Question - I'm at a thaumaturgy device (Experimental prefix swapping device) - it won't let me use it though. It says it has 5 charges, I've tried multiple belts, some exalted, some not, two prefixes, with and without experimental affixes, with and without sealed affixes... it seems like it should just swap the experimental prefix instead of one of the two normal ones, but it won't.

I think I'm missing something really obvious

Trying to get experimental mana on potion use on a belt so I can try to shuffle it to T7 and make a lego belt

Well poop I alt tabbed to type the question and was killed in the rift by apparently the one monster I didn't clear in the area lolololol

[desert steppe]

did you try to craft on a primordial exalt

it was bugged iirc

and would brick the device for that whole echo session

[vivid wolf]

It's possible 🙁 that would explain the interactions

I wish the game would pause or you'd be considered out of combat while using altars in game that have a pop up menu...

[desert steppe]

well, they don't want to do it because it would be abusable

which, I mean yes I get it but

it's causing a lot more problems than it's solving

they should at least drop aggro from enemies further than a screen away when we're on those menus

[vivid wolf]

Yeah that seems reasonable

Any suggestions for farming the twisted heart from the dragon timeline? I'm struggling to get that last piece for my lightning blast build.

[desert steppe]

kill it and kill it again

more corruption would also increase the drop rate, up to a certain extent

looking at letools numbers the base drop is 6% and goes up to 54% so it scales quite a bit

[dark pulsar]

So, since my 900IQ idea for Exsan+Rib doesnt work, I guess the best replacement for Exsan is either Wall of Nothing / Titan / Null? 🤔 I wouldnt rather not go with Astral Blood since I run with Entwined for 3 sets 😄

also 2H Orb Weaver for cold Shatter Strike, so thats why Titan

[unborn hamlet]

you could always offset entwined by getting +1 to skills on armor and amulet and therefore still run astral blood on a loss of 1 skill point

[zinc pewter]

you guys are so smart

[dark pulsar]

Yea I probably could... I pretty much only care about points for Shatter Strike, anything else is just a bit of QoL... I just have no idea how much the bleed from Nib would be killing me?

I really though Nib applies bleed stacks and Exsan just makes you take 0 damage from it... I think Aura of Decay had the same thing with the Primo unique helmet, but you still got the stacks on yourself... I guess I remember it wrong 🤔

[unborn hamlet]

Bleed doesn't do much dmg

You would probably have to stack thousands of stacks to die

[umbral perch]

Other players (n=1) have reported that the bleed stacks are very manageable normally, but stack dangerously high in Omen encounters due to the mob density and the general danger level of those encounters.

[dark pulsar]

Yea I guess that will be fun...

[unborn hamlet]

you know, there is also the option of ´´cleanse all ailments on evade´´ corruption

good luck

[dark pulsar]

Enchant Weapon should cleanse ailments on cooldown, so it should be fine 😄

[dark pulsar]

whoops

[short peak]

i was trying to make a lightning mage around static orb but I kinda sticked with disintegrate

this node looks cool but sounds so weak

for now im kinda just disintegrate and the free lightning blast

I have no idea how to stay alive on mage though 😭

im 57 with 960 life and 500 ward

like after lvl 30 my defense stop scaling idk what to do

im getting some ward here and there

flame ward is doing the heavy lifting

but I know empowered monolith i'll get one shot

[vivid wolf]

I got my lightning blast mage geared out with my meteor build, wanted to try something more Meta for a change to kind of relearn the systems of the game and mechanics then see how I can apply those to my other builds.

I had some questions about gearing...

I have a 3 LP Fragment:

Looking around it seems getting cast speed and crit multi is recommended, with some good alternatives - I was looking for recommendations, but also, how do folks get those multiple T7/T6 affixes? Is the weaver imprint the best way? Just do CoF prophecies for offhand catalyst until you hit a double/triple exalt and slot into imprint and farm your brains out?

I feel like I'm getting familiar enough with the game I would love to sit with someone famliar with lightning blast and talk through things a little

[hybrid girder]

@proven haven is the best you can do for s4 imprints to seal a desired affix and doing a 1o77 type setup to get a better chance at craftable 1o76? from my testing imprinting something like a 5575 or 7555 youll increase your single t7 item drop rates but the double T7 drops are so rare that you often wont have FP room to havoc them before imprint but maybe they are still good for increasing your drop rate of t7+t6?

should rewatch your last imprint video for the 5th time maybe i can figure it out lol

[versed hawk]

If you're going for a lightning mage, I would drop disintegrate. That's probably why you feel so squishy, because you're stationary while channeling that. Better off sticking with lightning blast+fragment of the enigma or mana stacking static orb with Focus for mana regen

Disintegrate can deal good damage but will always be a liability because of the stationary nature of it

[short peak]

👀 you mean disintegrate is better for fire ?

I could change my ability

[hybrid girder]

ideal slam exalt is probably cast speed+multi+whatever defensive suffixes you need in your gear

[versed hawk]

No, disintegrate is bad, you're not going to be able to run empowered monos at level 57 with that.

[short peak]

@versed hawkbtw how do people play runemaster ? how do they know what to even do with such crazy combinaison

I kept getting unique for runemaster

that's why im asking

[short peak]

thank you for the tip

I'll slowly specc out of it for something else

im still in act 10

so it's good

for now

[versed hawk]

People don't really use a wide range of the invocations, there's a select few that are really strong.

[short peak]

only a few :/

I see

at least disintegrate has crazy dmg

it can offset my bad build

[versed hawk]

If you get to late endgame and get some good gear for it you can make it work, but if you're still in campaign/early monoliths, it's gonna be a bad time

[short peak]

skill

I was considering going mana stuff

but i'll have to change

my plans

@versed hawk what do you trhink about this

[versed hawk]

I mean there's probably a lot that can be good with the right setup. I did one with the Vilatria's Storm Lance invocation in S2 with Dex and Int stacking that is probably even better now. But runic invocation in general is not the best as a main damage skill because you have to weave in the skills to create the runes first, and that usually means downtime on your damage.

[short peak]

oh I see

I see they have this which is lightning dot

so it made me think lightning dot are rare

maybe I can use this + some invocation

[versed hawk]

It's fine as an early game weapon if you get a lot of int, but if you don't have the helmet to go with it it's really bad

[versed hawk]

This skill is also pretty rarely used. It just doesn't scale very easily.

[short peak]

this and disintegrate go in concert

yeah this should be very rarely used

[short peak]

I guess the issue about standing arround is not the dmg reduction thanks to this node

but the recovery right ?

I won't be able to out ward

my way out

unless that node is not even enough

to make it fine

[versed hawk]

Yeah not really... it's just a very slow skill and standing still in this game is pretty dangerous.

[short peak]

let's say I respec to try disintegrate + the glyph would you have advice or cool set up for defense you can think of

since I was doing it since very early

Im a bit hesitant to switch without trying

but you are probably right I shouldn't try to make it work

i'll just need bit of time to make up my mind about changing my ability lol

[versed hawk]

I mean if it's fun to you, I'm sure you can find a way to make it work. I've personally never tried it, but that doesn't mean you can't have some fun with it, at the end of the day it's a game, so play what's fun to you

[short peak]

what do mages uses to stay alive ?

i played sentinel before it was easier

to build

mage I think all my attempt failed at empowered mono

[hybrid girder]

when damage gets higher it gets easier to stay alive. early endgame prioritize an area that synergizes with your passives: ward, health+armor or damage dealt to mana before health. keep endurance close to 60%. use a defensive gloves (grasp of the blood mage) and/or defensive body armor (wall of nothing, titan heart, etc) and make sure you have a leech source

[short peak]

thank you

🔥

[short peak]

@hybrid girder can I use ward + dmg dealt to mana at the same time ?

or bad idea

[sacred kite]

You can, but you probably want to focus on one the most so that you can stack bonuses

[vivid wolf]

@hybrid girder Thanks for your help/advice 🙂 I get a lot from @proven haven 's content also I need to rewatch some again now that I've played a bit deeper and can look with a new set of eyes

[short peak]

got this earlier

[proven haven]

There isnt really much different for 77 vs 76. They both get rerolled away from new changes and neither are likely to appear from a non T7 anyway.

Seal tech is better but woth caveats on how you set it u0

Up

[hybrid girder]

tysm can you share some notes on how to setup simulations? would like to math it out?

[proven haven]

Its not math, its not something you can do by playing the game normally. Basically data mining

I mean there is math, but its not just sitting there in plain sight

[proven haven]

1. Staying ranged. Not all builds can do this.
2. Ward, usually higher ward totals than equal gear life builds have life, eg. 10k ward on LB. (But usually with lower DR) some stack ward decay/ ward per second. Some genetic from a skill, some do mana spent to ward, some do health to ward like TH.
3. Armor. Currently have 9k or so on my HC fire aura character, feel pretty tanky.
4. Low life / ward retention. Health gained as ward / reactive ward force proc woth TH or TP.
5. Damage to mana, sometimes hybrid with seed of ekki helm or other.
6. Flame Ward. Use proactively to avoid big hits oneshotting you.
7. DR. Like red ring, RM or SB passive tree, SW relic, unity crest helm, etc.
8. Mana guide.

[spring crag]

btw @proven haven this work with lightning meteor too right https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/iu3p2x0u ?

just wonder why you choose fire meteor for the tech

[proven haven]

Fire torch makes fc free. Scales fire meteor

My video explains the tech

Light didnt work as well when I tried. Ladle means split types and 3 hit FC or 5 hit with expensive cost. And need helm for set.

[spring crag]

I think the main reason is mana right?

[proven haven]

Staff kinda works I guess but didnt seem better

[spring crag]

since scale is not actually the main reason

[proven haven]

Firestarter has 1.4x for fire plus meteor 75 free fire pen

Plus cam access a lot of flat adaptive

[spring crag]

temple staff might work for lightning one

[proven haven]

Mana yes but also the numbers just seemed better.

[spring crag]

because the stardust node scales non-fire even better than firestarter

[proven haven]

Meh. Star dust 1.8x fire pen still a lot plus get 1.42x

[spring crag]

ah yeah, forgot the pen thing

[proven haven]

You only get 3 fc hits tho so ramp is much slower

And mana recovery based on last 4 sec meteors

So fewer meteor during ramp means less mana back

Means less total ramp

[spring crag]

hmm

I wonder for self-cast

is fire still better?

[proven haven]

Self probably staff wins idk

[spring crag]

wait why?

[proven haven]

Big tech for Firestarter was like 90 free flat for channeling

During ramp

Self cast no channeling meteor

Tbh I tried staff light meteor with same tech and didnt feel better

Might as well just go the whole madness whatever thing

Not bother with the belt stuff

[spring crag]

hmm

I want to try self-cast fire version to see if it is better than lightning version

btw

[proven haven]

Its pretty decent with wildfire ignite

And nova cascade

[spring crag]

wait ignite>crit?

[proven haven]

Well my oneshot was ignite

But if you go ignite the fc and nova actually does some damage

[spring crag]

that thing needs insane thing that might not be suitable for general purpose

like using all your potions

[proven haven]

If you go crit you kinda need the meteor to hit to kill stuff

[spring crag]

and almost melting your pc due to the belt

you can go for non-omen idol for the potion weaver affix

but yeah it will significantly reduce your dmg I think

[proven haven]

Fire tech seems to be either the infinite loop for cheese, or you go with ignite

Otherwise light seems better. Can actually clear with madness and such with aoe

From exulis

Which basically forces crit

[spring crag]

let's see

[proven haven]

Going int stack

[spring crag]

I think no actually need madness

no I mean exulis

no need exulis

[proven haven]

Meteor -> FC nova has more reach.

Somehow you need to solve aoe

If ignite you dont

[spring crag]

slamming "area of elemental area skill" in idols is better

[proven haven]

No need any aoe

[spring crag]

I see

[proven haven]

Small meteor shoots out fc and nova

Apply ignite to whole screen

[spring crag]

yeah

[proven haven]

Crit needs aoe

[spring crag]

but will need to remove the belt

[proven haven]

Yes I know

I tried this

No belt direct cast with wildfire

[spring crag]

and for mana issue

[proven haven]

No mana issues

[spring crag]

thanks

but for general purpose

ignite still>crit right?

@proven haven btw how to solve mana issue?

using non-omen idols and use potion weaver affix?

[hybrid girder]

theres a belt corruption that gives mana on potion use

[spring crag]

yes but that means you need to use weaver mana affixes on idols

to not consuming potions

and this will reduce your dmg

[hybrid girder]

oof

[spring crag]

because of ignite duration effect might be reduced

wait actually no

ignite duration is in ornate idols

so things are sill good

[spring crag]

wdym oof

[hybrid girder]

weaver crafing on idol is hard. been trying to get a t7 mana before health on just 1 ornate and have yet. need to farm the 4/4 altar in cenotaph quite a bit

havent* yet with like maybe 60ish attempts

[spring crag]

bruh then how do you even manage mana?

potions have their limit

[hybrid girder]

spellblade so its just mana strike

[spring crag]

cant do meteor with spellblade

also sorcerer do not get a lot of mana with mana strike due to horrible attack speed

[hybrid girder]

are you setting up the meteor tech on sorc?

[spring crag]

well I was asking frozen sentinel about fire meteor

and he recommended ignite

to trigger insane frost claw proc

[hybrid girder]

yeah that build requires the weaver affix to function, but without the weaver it still is probably strong enough to refill mana a few times?

makes me want to play sorc but im so deep into spellblade

[frozen dirge]

yo guys, anyone got a decent flame reave planner ? there is so many variations

[short peak]

Thanks a lot. Ill change my disintegrate for something new. I need to find what to build around as an ability now

[unborn hamlet]

If you want some power, rune master lightning blast is the strongest build

[short peak]

I kinda liked the free lightning blast I get from sorcerer. I see you have some from static charge too

Maybe a afk build can be made

Im looking for off meta stuff that I can call m'y own

Instead of something already solved

Thx for your advicd

[unborn hamlet]

[short peak]

But im so bad at le lol

[unborn hamlet]

Meteor + frostclaw + elemental nova auto loop

Solve mana issue for this and you're the goat

[short peak]

🤔

Why not lightning blast from static charge and meteor

[unborn hamlet]

Lightning meteor sounds solved to me 😂

[short peak]

Tbh I have no idea how it works ill turn on the pc and check frost claw emmental nova

[short peak]

Oh is it ?