🔱┃sentinel

[junior wren]

and ofc everyone's favorite, barrage should now work with sierpin's and divine fury's javelin split into many javelins

[little temple]

I did a thing

[simple grotto]

tyvm

what is divine fury and sierpin? I have like 1.5k hours in the game but have never played Sentinel

[little temple]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzAsGYCZiA

https://www.lastepochtools.com/skills/javelin/tree
divine fury is the last lightning node

[junior wren]

the question is, which mastery for physical javelin

[little temple]

im going forge guard

[junior wren]

VK has echoes, FG has throwing damage and crits, Pally ... also has crits with the new node I guess

but Pally is more suited towards lightning

[little temple]

im probably doing mixed phys and lightning, only thing that I miss out on is lightning resistance shred

[junior wren]

there's not enough points to do mixed physical and lightning, it'll be a trade-off

[little temple]

yeah thats true

maybe smth like this?

for pure phys

[junior wren]

yeah, if you can max crit without going for the base crit node

[little temple]

thats easy as forge guard

[junior wren]

VK very likely can't do it

[little temple]

well at least VK can spec into weapon master too

[junior wren]

yep

[little temple]

but thats still looking at 900% increased crit when not going for flat crit anywhere

I think forge guard will be vastly superior

it already feels good to play imo

[junior wren]

5 base + 5 with spear + 4 base in tree = 14, and 14 * (1 + 6,35) = 102%, so only 635% crit is needed

if I can get higher % inc crit, I could remove the base points

FG gets base crit per dex, super easy life

VK .. probably throwing crit affixes on helmet and body armor

anomaly grants up to 150% too

yeah it seems doable

[polar spire]

1k health? at 80? you want at least 2500/3000 by that point

[little temple]

none of my chars ever reached 2500 health

[polar spire]

i didnt even know it was possible to have 1000 health at 80, i thought the default increases brought you to like 1500

[polar spire]

thats to be on the safe side

if you can handle content at 2000, you're fine

[junior wren]

I think level 100 Sentinel is like 900 health, so only having 1k means having literally NO health affixes 😄

[little temple]

My perfect stat forge guard planner has 2271

[polar spire]

last epoch has MANY layered defense mechanics, so 2000 health or lower, but with many layered defenses is fine

you can even get away with uncapped resists, as long as you're laying other defenses

ive done builds with 50% all res

[junior wren]

I usually end around 2-3k HP, but I like to add Ward when possible

[polar spire]

capped resists arent as huge in last epoch compared to other arpgs, they're still big to have, but not super crazy needed like other arpgs

primalist druids for instance can get away with uncapped resists crazy hard

[eager carbon]

acolyte and sentinel are the 2 classes with highest hp with no health mods

[polar spire]

can even run 0% res across the board on werebears

[eager carbon]

the only other one is if you go druid, which has 1087 base hp vs 912 for sentinel

[junior wren]

LETools planner shows 912 on both Sentinel and Acolyte

[polar spire]

which is what he said

[junior wren]

oh I misread

[robust lake]

One bleed tick is all I need to delete you in pvp

[junior wren]

and I looked at Mage and Rogue and it says 906, so barely any different 😄

[polar spire]

rebukes

[robust lake]

stacks 120 bleeds immediately

[junior wren]

smiles in high Armor to DoT

[polar spire]

smiles in bleed cleanse

[robust lake]

not fair

[polar spire]

smiles in off screen forge strike

[junior wren]

waves at you and suddenly 6 javelins rain on you

[robust lake]

🥵 harder

[junior wren]

..and cause bleed

[robust lake]

ok ill see myself out its midday lmao

[junior wren]

I think we won

[robust lake]

I'll be back

[junior wren]

ah damn i forgot you can't post gif here 😄

[polar spire]

HA

[junior wren]

saved

going back to the javelins... we don't know what else was changed in VK, but we know Woe has physical pen 3 * 8 pts, but other than that there's only the echo nodes and VIT / % health nodes.

meanwhile FG has up to 42 attributes (str and dex), which translates into more javelins on split and 168% inc damage

also has physical pen per STR

and there are some + flat throwing damage nodes, but not sure if you wanna take those

so the benefit seems to be higher %inc dmg and easier crit cap VS echoed javelin

echoed attack could be calculated like another % more multiplier right?

basically like the chance to doublecast on smite

[little temple]

pen is kinda wasted for javelin since you already have 150% from tree

and with new VR you can get away with not moving a lot more often

[uneven gorge]

Frostbite >

[slim spire]

Yeah I just take a look at a proper last epoch tools for the first time and literally every equipment have hybrid health

while I have 0 hybrid health affix and like 3 % health affix

even when picking up everything

I guess I'm kinda screwed because I don't shatter enough stuff?

anyway I cut a lot of damage from passives and now my life is at grand total of 1.3 k

I've tried Titan Heart but it's incredibly hard to top up health as a Warpath FW

also I'm never ever going MG again, everything on market is hella expensive and/or have too high faction rank

[little temple]

they also moved quite a bit around btw

[junior wren]

you have to sort by cost - low to high. Default sorting isn't set to that for some reason 😄

if you don't have affixes with % HP and hybrid health, you can use the flat Health affix too

[junior wren]

yeah, the keen outlook node is gone. It might be the new node in the center

and mana cost node is in a better place

[austere coral]

1 less point needed to get Holy Trail and Pilgrimage has 1 less max point(hopefully the same effect at the max points), it got even better for leveling

[polar spire]

having gone 1 to 80 with only rive, no other skills, and no passive talents invested, you can also level purely with rive

[slim spire]

Ya already done, I just spent 1 mil buying apathy's maw, so I'm looking for cheapish rares, as I'm only at faction rank 6 or so. No dice.

I understand why the rares are not cheap ofc

Coz they are what you are able to access to at low faction rank

Oh well, I guess I'm just gonna set my filter properly come 17 to look for hybrid health stuff

Wish there's a video or something teaching me the most important affixes in a loot filter

[junior wren]

rares? why not look at exalted

Apathy's Maw for 1 mil is definitely overpriced 😄

I'm pretty sure most build guides specify what affixes to look for

[noble zenith]

In early season this wont as expensive

Also, the market was kinda in a weird situation because of the duplicate abuse

[junior wren]

it doesn't matter. His goal was to get % health affixes right? So you search for that affix. I logged into Legacy and looked up helmets:

at rank 6 he can buy exalted armor. So it only costs some favor.
If you don't like the base or the other affixes, buy it anyway use rune of removal + glyph of hope to get those affix shards out of that

[waxen nymph]

There was no abuse this season/reset

[junior wren]

Checked in cycle just in case, but it's the same story. Good gear for 0 gold, break into shards if you need some.

[waxen nymph]

I am talking post Imperial Uprising Event

[noble zenith]

did a reset happen since 1.1 launch? because i was 100% sure that there was a duplicate bug during this season

[slim spire]

Hm? Let me check again

[waxen nymph]

September/October

Imperial Uprising Event came with a Reset

[slim spire]

Nvm I'm rank 5. I need to spend all these favors I guess

[noble zenith]

ok i didnt know, thanks !

[little temple]

@waxen nymph you plan to play forge guard phys javelin right? Do you have a planner where I could steal some ideas?

[waxen nymph]

Euh nope

I am waiting for the updated planner

[junior wren]

yeah gotta farm a little more then 😄

[waxen nymph]

But basically Siège Barrage + Sierpin

Dex and Str Stacking

[slim spire]

I guess I just spend them at the gambler?

I got a lot of favors

[waxen nymph]

Not sure if I go shield or not

[slim spire]

Or should I relisting stuff over and over again

[waxen nymph]

And I will probably use Titan Heart + Razor fall

[slim spire]

I'm not checking everything for their price

[little temple]

thats my plan aswell. Im very sure about going shield though. I want to make heavy use of forceful hurl and dont want to move, so I need to be a little tanky

[waxen nymph]

Could use Foot of the Mountain too than

And Close Call as Shield

[slim spire]

Tbh I'm a huge trade player in poe, but in this game it felt that there's too much "friction" for trade

[waxen nymph]

This will fill up your Endurance Threshold up to your max hp

[little temple]

yeah, i have foot in my planner. And I also had close call in there for a while

but its not that good for oneshot protection since it relies on getting hit a few times before

so I switched to good ol ironglass

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BEkkazMA

[crude matrix]

Forge Guard, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.7

Class:

Sentinel (22) / Void Knight (11) / Forge Guard (79) / Paladin (1)

General:

▸ Health: 2,049, Regen: 35.28/s
▸ Mana: 128.51, Regen: 8/s
▸ Ward Retention: 56%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 35 Str / 115 Dex / 14 Int / 14 Att / 23 Vit
▸ Resistances: 67% / 76% / 65% / 115% / 72% / 67% / 88%
▸ EHP: 32,456 / 35,052 / 31,866 / 63,254 / 34,031 / 32,456 / 35,052

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 54%, Threshold: 1,827
▸ Dodge Chance: 40% (1417)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 73% (7,448)
▸ Block Chance: 92%, Mitigation: 54% (2,446)

Damage Types:

▸ Void, Fire, Physical / Spell, Throwing, DoT

Buffs:

▸ Mountain's Endurance (1/3)

Used skills:

• Javelin (25)
• Ring Of Shields (20)
• Smite (20)
• Abyssal Echoes (20)
• Volatile Reversal (20)

Used unique items:

• Foot of the Mountain
• Bleeding Heart
• Thorn Slinger

[waxen nymph]

When you are in end game throw a Wall of Nothing on top and a Vessel to get 5k ward on top

[junior wren]

you can buy some uniques. Eterra's path boots, Boulderfist gloves, Titan Heart armor, Carcinization ring, Apostate's Sanctuary amulet if you don't use any spells

those have health on them

[slim spire]

Man you're the best

[junior wren]

you can search the database for ") health" or "increased health" and you get a list 😛
https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/search?query=increased health&in_description=1&exact_match=0
https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/search?query=) health&in_description=1&exact_match=0

[slim spire]

Titan Heart is unusable for me tho. I don't really go near monsters as a warpath build. I'm trying to theorycraft the sigils as lifegain somehow, still under testing

[junior wren]

what? Titan Heart has +40% increased Health, how is that unusable?

[slim spire]

Haha yeah today's actually my 1st time with the tools, so I'm a little nooby

[slim spire]

The life regen

[junior wren]

so right now you have HP regen but no HP ? 😄

[woven temple]

why can't you pivot to leech to regen though? that ought to be a better option than just stacking regen

[slim spire]

It's great for leevh

Leech*

[woven temple]

regardless of how your build actually does damage you can find easy sources of leech for it

like the mono blessings

or even bleeding heart

[slim spire]

Coz I'm a warpath build generating fw, so with low health if monsters breathe at me I die

[junior wren]

HP regen is way better than leech, but you first need to have the affixes for it

[woven temple]

ah minions right that's probably the only exception

[junior wren]

life will get much better once you get that rank 6 and can buy exalted armor

[polar spire]

i was about to post the "there is no war in ba sing se" gif to this, and remembered it doesnt work

no wait

hold on

[polar spire]

there we go

[south zephyr]

Hmmm sun forged hammer shards or high roll sword breaker

Choices, choices

[slim spire]

Speaking about blessings, should I unlock everything non empowered first, or just go for empowered ver?

[waxen nymph]

Sword Catcher?

[south zephyr]

I suppose it depends if you're scaling self damage or going minion ailments

[south zephyr]

Yeah that one

[south zephyr]

If you can manage just rush empowered

The non-stat relevant ones can all be skipped with correct patching anyways

[slim spire]

I really need to study blessings a bit. Do you get 1 blessing non empower and 1 empowered, or empowered is a better ver?

[woven temple]

you get one per mono so the empowered replaces your normal version

also the left column and the last ruin dont have any stat blessings

[junior wren]

"Last ruin must not be last" is what I remember when rushing 😄

simply because the laser is annoying

[slim spire]

Oh so they got harder in sequence?

[simple raven]

i cant wait for the next season. come no EHG! my body is ready!

lets see if i can push my thorns sentinel to 600c this time around 😄

[junior wren]

yeah, lots of ppl can't beat the first harbinger

[woven temple]

idk the laser gives the boss a ton of downtime, for some builds that's an advantage

when you don't need to stand still to damage it

[junior wren]

most builds deal damage while not moving

[slim spire]

wait, I can wear non sentinel helms?

[woven temple]

you can buy them and salvage for affix shards

[slim spire]

I see

[slim spire]

uh guys why do my sigil disappear?

oh nvm

I'm bad

(I specced out of it when I go all in life)

[junior wren]

you're no longer the chosen one

so your sigil disappeared

[slim spire]

ok I got 2k health now

any way of surviving the rotating tri beam? Or do I just need to stack movement speed?

[waxen nymph]

The closer you are, the less MS you need

[manic cradle]

or if you have high regen, just stand very far and run through it

[slim spire]

oh damage depends on distance? interesting gonna try it thanks

[waxen nymph]

No its doesnt

[uneven gorge]

You just spend less time in it

[slim spire]

nope doesn't work

omg why is he so hard

it's not even the harbinger

I know, I'm going to try rebuke

[turbid dome]

unspecced rebuke saves the day

[slim spire]

hah I made it

except now I die to the unmarked ice storm

[south zephyr]

Yeah Gaspar is a build check as much as Lagon is, maybe more so

[slim spire]

ok I did it! ice storm is easy enough to dodge, just died to the harbinger now due to the unexpected tri beam 😄

[woven temple]

since the ray moves faster at longer range, you will eat fewer damage ticks while it passes over you

[woven temple]

the harbinger also has this skill pepega

[waxen nymph]

Yo !!!

[spring pollen]

Yeah these cha he’s are awesome

Changes

[last bison]

Really excited for making alts now

[rocky tendon]

its a cool change for alts yeah

[wise moss]

Is sentinel typically made into a tanky character?

[inland quarry]

hopefully it's a little more tanky now. before season 2, sentinel was tanky at the start but gets 1shot a lot in the end game. whereas mages were paper from the start, but super tanky endgame.

crazy how mages are more tanky then sentine.

[wise moss]

Oh wow thats nuts. Ty!

[junior wren]

no, sentinel doesn't get 1shot a lot in the endgame

[inland quarry]

alot more than mage and rogue

[junior wren]

sentinel is probably second tankiest - after rogue which is can be immortal

[inland quarry]

yea marksman heartseeker will be op, and probably evade everything like usual.

[junior wren]

the reason ppl are dying on sentinels is that their builds suck. they barely have armor, run leech as their only sustain mechanic and then are all surprised pikachu when they stop leeching and die 😄

[inland quarry]

or maybe you're blind. the same people who play sentinel are successful with mages and rogue.

they don't just exclusively play sentinel

[wise moss]

As a new player, I am interested in forge guard and hoping to go for a defensive based build

[woven temple]

ah yes the class with the least defensives by far doesnt get oneshot in endgame

maybe if your endgame is 200 corruption

[inland quarry]

its as ehg said, ward isn't tied to affixes as much as armor/health.

[winter copper]

only noobs die on sentinel 💀

[inland quarry]

while sentinel has to sacrifice a lot to get defense

[woven temple]

cause only noobs play sentinel dummy

5head

[winter copper]

our 4 years planned on gaslighting ehg that sentinel is weak worked out pretty well

[junior wren]

forge guard is very good for physical and fire oriented builds, you can also do minions. Lots of bonuses with shields. New patch you can wear 2H with shield too.

[junior wren]

where's the list

[wise moss]

Perfect. I wil be following a build once patch notes are released so I'm not going in blind, but my hope is that a forge guard will be relatively easier to gear for being tanky given they get shield buffs

[winter copper]

i mean several people easily doing 2k cor on current sentinel and u can do echoes on 6k+, just bosses are rough past 3k and then only if you are deliberately fighting fat harbinger which u have 0 reasons to do

[junior wren]

and let's not pretend 2k corruption is of any interest to your average casual gamer

[inland quarry]

so much harder to get tanky sentinel compared to mage/rogue for casual player.

i suppose with enough time and effort, sentinel can almost be just as tanky, but they lack the mobility and inherent speed

[junior wren]

laughs in judgement aura

[inland quarry]

that leap skill or whatever definitely needs to get rid of the target requirement

[junior wren]

lunge, literally charge offscreen. shield rush. literally lets you charge ACROSS THE ECHO MAP in one go

but lacks mobility kek

in 1.2 we getting double teleport with VR

[inland quarry]

good luck using lunge to get out of giant boss aoe

[junior wren]

I don't need to, I can just tank it

[woven temple]

is it better than cons ground though?

[junior wren]

but for the sake of the argument, evade

[winter copper]

double rr, slammed 30% ms sultron + haste on traversal and you have over 100% ms, plenty of mobility

[junior wren]

it isn't, but much more casual friendly to repop once every 6 seconds 😄

[woven temple]

charge across the map with one button press - can repeat
not stopping randomly on hitting a 2 inch incline - cannot repeat

[junior wren]

I mean, skill issue.

but they're improving on that too next patch, right?

[uneven gorge]

When people say 'sentinal isn't that tanky' I don't think they're referring to the top 1% (or less) of players that know the best ratios of defensive layers to maximise effective hp and sustain to breeze through 2k corruption. To most, if it's easier/harder to build defences on one class than the other, that's it.

[junior wren]

Thing is, you don't need a rocket science certificate to play sentinel.

like, what are we doing here. Is using healing hands and having health affixes difficult?

[uneven gorge]

No, you don't. It's pretty viable and simple to build. It's just much easier to get extremes with something like falconer

[junior wren]

Great story, but I haven't seen any comparison.

[uneven gorge]

?

[junior wren]

I prefer data over what "people feel is tankier"

[uneven gorge]

Sure, ok 👍

[rocky tendon]

i mean the fact that theyre nerfing ward and buffing health because of how tanky ward builds could get with less investment should tell you something

[junior wren]

When I look at your average casual twitch streamer playing LE, what I see are guys dying to bosses in campaign and <100 monos. I see Rogues with close zero dodge chance. I see Mages with barely 2k Ward.

So I'm most certainly not going to blindly believe that making a Sentinel is somehow markedly harder for your average player than making those two classes.

[uneven gorge]

Who said it was harder?

[junior wren]

perhaps read the beginning of this discussion?

[uneven gorge]

I'm honestly not invested that much to scan through. Does it even matter? It's just a stereotype, it's not meant to be gospel

[junior wren]

Sentinel can play with Ward too. Most ward builds aren't tanky, they just have more "HP" than HP builds.

[little temple]

sentinel has the highest ward per second in the game actually

[uneven gorge]

Correct, health has much better sustain than ward w/ leech and stuff

[little temple]

just get 1000% phys res and some funky amulet

[junior wren]

I'm pretty sure highest ward per second is runemaster with regen build using a vessel 😛

stupid sanguine runestones 😄

but nobody plays that so all is well

[little temple]

was that more than 8000 ward per second? O.o

[junior wren]

I dunno how high it can get, around 2600 for sure. How do you get 8k ?

[little temple]

1000 phys res 😄

[winter copper]

press rebuke ggg

[little temple]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzDsCYE5iA

[junior wren]

ah, "while channeling rebuke"

[little temple]

and then you do meme stuff with https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzBsEYCYGYg

[junior wren]

I think I'll take my 2,6k RM over this

but it's good to know a fun build exists

[inland quarry]

i might think about rebuke if they gave it the focus treatment and let it move around

[little temple]

hey we only talked about ward per second, not fun per hour!

[woven temple]

ward per second while channeling rebuke is not ward per second

it has just this small little caveat

[south zephyr]

This +Vessel + new vengeance would be funni tank boi

With absolutely miserable damage probably

I wonder if vengeance is getting a smite node

[gusty abyss]

Iron blade + smite idols

Palarus also works

[south zephyr]

I mean yes but maximum oversmite

[junior wren]

pretty sure iron blade stays a melee attack

so just palarus

hm wait, aurelis

[south zephyr]

Hit->Smite->Rebuke->Repeat and laugh at the giga-Ward

[gusty abyss]

Ah right

[junior wren]

if you think about it, it's basically Grim Constitution, but better, beacuse Rebuke also gives DR and you can generate in combat

mfw I combined "Grim Constitution" and "that Ward shield" into "Grim Ward" 👀

[undone hawk]

what is the best spec for dual shield wield?

[turbid dome]

forge guard imo

[south zephyr]

FG has good shield stuff yeah

[undone hawk]

i wonder if they will touch that shield skill, cause it is a bit boring, especially the sfx

hit box seems weird too

shield bash or something

[junior wren]

probably shield bash yeah

[waxen nymph]

Shield Bash with Leviathan Carver

Since you don't care about AS

[undone hawk]

what is AS?

[waxen nymph]

Attack Speed

[undone hawk]

but isnt dmg based on... that defensive stat... forgot the name now

[waxen nymph]

Block Chance and Effectiveness?

[undone hawk]

Block Effectiveness

yeah

so dual shield is better i guess

[waxen nymph]

But you cannot do that

There is the "sh-axe "

But that 1h

[undone hawk]

Monument of Protection

[waxen nymph]

Also it's a Melee Attack, so if you add Flat Melee Dmg, it still count

[undone hawk]

humm

i see

[junior wren]

yeah, Monument of Protection is actually an Axe that gives block stats

[waxen nymph]

Sh-axe

[south zephyr]

High roll Iron glass exalt is probably the best for capping block chance yeah?

Hmmm 3 LP dreamthorn might be good for the right build

20% block chance and 450 effectiveness isn't bad

Void Forge Guard would be silly though

[junior wren]

for weapons there's also Bo's Anarchy with up to 30%

[winter copper]

what masterty?

[south zephyr]

Eh, generic sentinel

[winter copper]

the easiest way is always 1lp bulwark with t7 block chance

[little temple]

its a staff though, so no shield on forge guard

[junior wren]

you're right, Forgemasters no staff, sadness

[south zephyr]

Ah, crazy shield that

[little temple]

and he calls himself a master of weapons. pathetic!

[south zephyr]

2H Dreamthorn + Bulwark Void based Forgeguard for maximum silliness

And probably not a lot of viability

Although 97% block chance from just weapon+Shield is quite a bit

[inland quarry]

how expensive is a 1lp horn of uhkeiros?

i deleted my market character 3 months ago

[south zephyr]

IDK probably not terrible at a guess, nemesis eggs and all

[little temple]

Is it correct that Keen Outlook doesnt work with Siege Barrage in Javelin? I dont seem to get any damage bonus at the dummy

[waxen nymph]

Yes

It seems to be intended

[little temple]

sad, they even fly a lot further than normal javelins!

[wise moss]

Can someone point me where the forge guard can apparently now use a 2H and shield? I am not finding it on LEtools

[waxen nymph]

It's not in the game yet

That's why it's not on Letools

Search in the channel

[wise moss]

Ahhhh thanks!!

[junior wren]

next week

[halcyon yoke]

subskill question (hypothetical example):
if there is a node for vengeance that'd be like
"Vengeance's hits have ailment chance% + ailment penetration"
would it also work on Iron Blade, since it's a subkill of Vengeance?

[inland quarry]

50/50 chance. they would say 'yes' but i can also see them saying 'iron blade is a separate skill'

[junior wren]

hmm, forge strike specced into "singular craft" node + into detonating ground should be in the same boat

detonating ground is a melee hit just like the iron blade

so you could check if it applies the bleed from forge strike

[halcyon yoke]

it does work in that case

1 bleed on hit

then explosion it goes to 2 bleed + 3 ignite

[waxen nymph]

It's should

[eager carbon]

probably won't, they tend to forget iron blades exists

[waxen nymph]

Nah, they even fixed the More Dmg not applying to them

[eager carbon]

my point exactly

[obsidian thicket]

Yo, has the sentinel rework effected the minion style forge guard builds at all ?

[worn garden]

Made manifest armor stronger

[obsidian thicket]

As in just better number now ?

I guess until we see patch notes I assume still the same clear speed issues

[halcyon yoke]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

[winter copper]

No, realistic on meta level its still utter garbage

As for non meta your weapons will die a bit less and ma shield throw version is more tanky

Also vengeance new weapon generator

[eager carbon]

embrace the meta, don't play minions

[winter copper]

No minions

[worn garden]

All the minions, even though I only play two minion builds now that do over 10million dps

[inland quarry]

even with tons of minion health on tree and equipment, forged weapons still get 1shot by most harbingers. then you're stuck with 3/5 at most because that's all you can summon before they die again.

[worn garden]

Forge minions are pretty bad, if you want to play the best minion builds you do crit shield throw Manny or bleed shield throw manny

[obsidian thicket]

I'm just comparing my options currently. I do wanna go minions but also want to hit 500 corruption so you see my issue.

[polar spire]

I would say yes, because the chest or helm affix that grants mana on vengeance hit used to also grant mana on iron blade hit (until we got it nerfed a few years back i think, it might still do it i cannot remember)

[polar spire]

Uh oh, really? It was already insanely strong

Well, if you played paladin forge breath with it

It was spam critting like 300-800k depending on end game build, and in a cone large enough to hit half your screen

[polar spire]

Play wrouks paladin spell MA

Back when healing hands first dropped and it was gigaovertuned, wrouk held the #1 sentinel spot with paladin spell manifest armor hahaha

[winter copper]

500c will be doable with eyes closed thats not smth u have to worry abt

[obsidian thicket]

Ahh really ?

Not played in a while so have no benchmark for what people actually aim for or what the soft cap is where you stop getting rewards.

[winter copper]

well that depends on gear ofc but ye its easy

[obsidian thicket]

Okay I just assumed 500c was when you unlocked uber Aber so assumed that was like upper limit of what "normal" builds were doing

[orchid flint]

doesn't wraithlord go to like 1000c easily

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah that's why I said "normal" builds. Just like you throw stuff togeather with some gear with single t7 mods

[orchid flint]

why is wraithlord not a normal build? its not bugged or anything. just super overtuned but so was any falcon build

[woven temple]

it is but they said that uber abby will be a lot more challenging than 500 corr mono

[woven temple]

yes if you live in game it will be, for a normal player I'd guess it will still present plenty of challenge

but he got a point in the sense that the last few patches improved player power and itemization across the board so even worse builds can now hit previously unreachable benchmarks

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah I'm trying to guage what's actually a normal benchmark to build towards.

As I have only even done like 200-300c my build is not quite online and the crazy busted 5k corruption. So hard trying to guage something like forge guard minions

[uneven gorge]

300c is a successful build. 600c is a good build. 1000c is a great build. Anything higher is turkey eggs 👍

[worn garden]

A normal build is like melee harvest lich which can do 500 corruption easily. A giga broken build is consecrated ground stacking pally which can do 2k corruption

[uneven gorge]

This is objectively correct and no one will argue with it whatsoever :)

[worn garden]

200 corruption is early end game. 500 mid late game, and 1k is the beginning of the late late end game.

But really, if you can do all the content smoothly, then id consider that game completion, and anything extra is just a personal milestone for you

[woven temple]

oh come on its not that broken

[worn garden]

Some People have pushed it to 1k already in great gear

[halcyon yoke]

which part of the sentinel reword made MA stronger?

the amulet is the obvious one, but that's not sentinel specific

[south zephyr]

2H

+Shield

I assume

[worn garden]

New gear, new idols, new two hander+shield combo, new symbol of hope rework

[woven temple]

I played it myself but dropped around 600-700 cause I couldn't be bothered to play even more on the old version

but it starts falling off a lot once you can no longer face tank everything

and that point ain't far from 1k

[south zephyr]

2H + Shield is a huge durability buff I think

[halcyon yoke]

hit MA or spell MA?
i'd say yes for the symbol, but the rest

[worn garden]

Hit Manny

[south zephyr]

Oh actually MA + Shield throw might be busted good

Since you can easily remove CD

[worn garden]

Bleed was already strong as heck without vr buff too lol

Sentinel overall lost some damage but got more dr

[robust lake]

vr is insane with bleed:( that feel when u stack 999+ bleeds and pop vr

deletes 2 layers of ward before you can blink

health u dont even notice xd

[worn garden]

Like yo symbols+rebuke+block+sustain is basically immortal now

[halcyon yoke]

where's the sustain from?

[worn garden]

As in health recovery

[halcyon yoke]

as in, what's the source

[robust lake]

blessing and a single suffix will put you at like 500 after patch

[halcyon yoke]

or you meant health regen?

[uneven gorge]

blueberry pie :D

[worn garden]

New affixes, new items, but if you leech then well.. you leech :d

[halcyon yoke]

not sure MA is the build where your leech is going to carry you the most

[worn garden]

I was saying for other builds

Like rive

Manny I go regen/healing

And give Manny a small leech affix

But yeah sentinel is eating very good

[ornate sentinel]

What do you guys level with at cycle start?

[worn garden]

For sentinel? bleed hammer throw into holy trail javelin

[uneven gorge]

Cheat engine

[worn garden]

Paly. Or rive

We can respec mastery now

[ornate sentinel]

its 1m at level 100, right?

or do we know how it scales

[worn garden]

Yeah it's in youtube I think it's that much, so swapping masteries for alts will be cheap enough

[fair hollow]

im excited for patchnotes

not that season starter is gonna chance tho 😅

[south zephyr]

What're you starting?

I'm definitely going sentinel but keep changing my mind on what to build

[fair hollow]

Spell MA

tbf first 3 characters are gonna be MA variants 😂

[south zephyr]

Forge breath is the only spell scaling it has yeah?

[fair hollow]

dont forget the retaliate nova

but yeah forgebreath is main dmg source in Spell MA

[south zephyr]

I suppose the weapon inheritance gives a ton of flat spell damage potentially

[fair hollow]

yeah you can use staves

[south zephyr]

Also wait what retaliate Nova

[tribal basin]

tbf , the forge breath isnt really worth the investment when the whirlwind slash exist

[fair hollow]

both different builds

[tribal basin]

holup , isnt manifest armor also a skill that every sentinel class can use ?

[fair hollow]

yes

[tribal basin]

ahh tahts the thing i missed then

[fair hollow]

Spell MA build is a pally

[inland quarry]

manifest armor never really did any signifigant damage for me. hopefully they made it do more dmg.

it's as strong as maybe 3 skeletons combined.

[fair hollow]

then you are just building it wrong, dmg ain't its problem.

[south zephyr]

What stats were you scaling? Cause you don't want minion stats in most slots

[inland quarry]

it scales off your weapon right?

[south zephyr]

And gloves, body armor, helm and boots

[inland quarry]

if it also triggered weapon effects when it hit, it would be awesome. but that was a missed opportunity.

[south zephyr]

At vastly scaled values

I think it does for certain weapons actually

[fair hollow]

it does not

[south zephyr]

Oh, hmmm ah I was thinking of some of the conditional scaling stuff not skills

If it triggered smite from Palarus for example it would be broken AF

Since I think it and FW share inheritance functionality for weapons

[inland quarry]

would have been awesome. since you can only have one, and it has a really slow attack speed, i think it would've been fine.

[polar spire]

i thought the more softish cap was 500c, everything still increases, but 500c is like the sweet spot?

i try to make all my builds for 500c

[robust lake]

for most builds yeah, for optimal favor gains its still 1000 I believe

[polar spire]

like 10 of my builds can go over 1000, and 2 go over 2000

but they arent builds i enjoy playing myself, and who knows how they hold now in current patch

and then that'll all change for the rework coming up

[robust lake]

yep, today is the day I'll wake up to patchnoto

[polar spire]

i think my standard multistrike/forge strike build will be a lot of fun with multistrikes multiple swords hitting the same target node, and then 2h + shield, since multistrike has block effect nodes

that'll prob be what i play as season start

and then forge strike has fire damage, and i can tack on hh for more fire

[south zephyr]

Sword catcher + Frenzy Experimental Affix is gonna go crazy for hit MA I bet

[tribal basin]

and now its easier to get a good juiced version of Julras Obsession for the MA

[polar spire]

i still feel like even with the changes, @fair hollow's paladin spell MA will rule supreme

just nothing can top those forgebreaths

[south zephyr]

The clear should be great

[robust lake]

ohhh right, all julra stuff is guaranteed 1lp, now with trageted slams we can do things there

[fair hollow]

new amulet is gonna be huge

hp regen buffs aswell

[polar spire]

i wish set frags werent slot bound

imagine pulling shattered lance onto MA

[south zephyr]

Gah anyone have the new frenzy ammy saved? Can't remember where it was from

[polar spire]

nihilis?

[south zephyr]

Ah no it's the new weaver one, found it

[polar spire]

dont forget volatile reversal has frenzy on it as well

[polar spire]

and then i think someone earlier said new vengeance has frenzy as well?

[robust lake]

sry for quality xD

[south zephyr]

Nah it's fine, gonna be a pain to farm up a good one though with the random affixes and all

[polar spire]

i still feel like Falcon Fists are the best gloves, easy to find 3lp, not hard to find 4lp, and they're like a slightly weaker wing guards

[fair hollow]

that with crit multi and fire pen or area increase is gonna be verry nice

[south zephyr]

Also didn't clarify how long the buffs lasts, probably 10 seconds

[robust lake]

lvl48 too so beyond 2lp is questionable ._.

[fair hollow]

doesn't have lp its weaver

[robust lake]

oh true, ima blind as a bat xD

[south zephyr]

Lotta new weaver items

More gamba

[robust lake]

I had some weaver stacking ideas but they gotta be like at least 22+ first and then roll some proper stuff :/

With weaver rune we dont have to equip it now at least

[south zephyr]

Small but significant consolation

[fair hollow]

also great is being able to get minions transported on traversal on ring slot now, frees up boots for frenzy effect experimental

[south zephyr]

Permanent frenzy uptime is pretty nice for mono-minion builds

BM can probably get some use out of that ammy too

[fair hollow]

yeah

[analog steppe]

200% of the stats on the item is also sick for single minion builds

[fair hollow]

skelly archmage gonna run it aswell

[south zephyr]

Yeah less useful for FW sadly, still probably going to start FW Vengeance though

Cause why not

[polar spire]

whats fw, my brain isnt clicking

[south zephyr]

Forged Weapons

[polar spire]

ok yea

i never use them so makes sense

did you know forged weapons have an exploit thats never been patched

[fair hollow]

vengeance summoning the weapons is big

[south zephyr]

I'm almost afraid to ask

[south zephyr]

Yeah that and 2H+Shield is a looooot of tank

Plus if iron blades summon them you can potentially shoot them outwards

[fair hollow]

yeah spell ma is little jealous that we cant use staff + shield

[polar spire]

if you take the nodes top right in forged strike, where they sit there and dont move and generate ward on you, you can run warpath with forged weapons and generate a constant 400 ward shield, where if you even take like a 300 hit, you'll jump back up to 400 instantly

they're only supposed to generate ward on you when you're near them

the bug is they do it no matter the distance you are from them

[south zephyr]

Hah, that almost makes them worth using

[polar spire]

so you can just weeeeee warpath away from them and they'll still gen full ward

[south zephyr]

The ward nodes I mean

[polar spire]

yea with warpath forge guard and those nodes taken, you can immediately start on mono's the moment you hit end of time in your mid 20's

the ward is just that strong

[south zephyr]

That's gotta be super slow going though

That's a lotta nodes that early

Not much room for damage

[polar spire]

oh yea totally, but if you make a lotta alts, and you wanna break it up a bit and not run campaign everytime, its nice to just fill in like the first mono clear and then get back to campaign

but you can also just rive it up

[south zephyr]

Still amazed at the damage Sword+Sceptre WP gets. Wonder if it's getting nerfed tbh

[polar spire]

ive done 1-80 rive with only rive and no passive tree investment, and rive is fantastic

[south zephyr]

75% pen and 10% base crit is crazy

[polar spire]

that was one of my first builds ever 4-5 years ago

sword and sceptre, fire hit and dot

and it worked well

[south zephyr]

I use it to make crit-capping smite trivial tbh

It's still probably my most played build

[polar spire]

i just wanted to play hit AND dot, and sword + sceptre warpath allows that

[south zephyr]

20 smites at once is a Neuron Activator

[polar spire]

and its still a decent build to this day

like a general use build that can easily reach 500c

[south zephyr]

Need to test out a tricked out 3 LP firestarter on that build at some point. The more damage might be able to offset the 40 flat damage loss. Maybe...

Shame sceptres don't have a source of flat fire spell damage

[polar spire]

i made a fire void knight version where you take the starting vk nodes in warpath but not enough to convert it to void, so its echoing but fire

[south zephyr]

God I do kind of wish there was a PoB equivalent now

[inland quarry]

20 smites at once what? you're limited to 5/sec

[south zephyr]

Throwing idols + pack density + Palarus + WW Smite + Jav Smite

Also exaggerating

It's still like 10-15 quite often

Doubling up on Palarus might be a damage increase if I can find a couple T7 flat spell damages to slam

Although 75% fire pen is pretty hard to beat

[robust lake]

ya u gotta go scepter to double dip into passives aswell

[south zephyr]

Yeah 😐

[inland quarry]

we need a weapon that counts as a sceptre and 1h sword at the same time

[polar spire]

so like the "shield axe"

i wonder if the vengeance changes are enough to bring back love to the vengeance 1h mace

[south zephyr]

Extremely possible that things would be busted if the supported skill is good

53% more hit damage, attack speed and 5 skill levels is a lot

[polar spire]

i still think sentinels should have access to dual wielding 1h maces

[alpine canopy]

It's possible. Vengeance actually has a decent amount of multis currently, it's just not enough to shine.

The iron blade changes could even make it okay for clearing

[polar spire]

dont forget that if you have holy aura flame burst, iron blade will adds stacks to mobs it hits

because iron blade counts as a melee attack

[alpine canopy]

That's actually my 1.1.7 build

[polar spire]

if you have the counter attack in base sentinel talents, that will also add flame burst stacks

because it too, is a melee attack

last laughs cull is nice on vengeance as well

since we'll be able to hit 100% iron blade on vengeance and ricochet hits for this rework

you gotta take hit procs into account

high mana sustain vengeance with good crit, fire shred, and meteor belt will be good

[south zephyr]

Hmmm FG or pally for Vengeance

I'm guessing Pally

[polar spire]

volcanus with its 10% chance to cast magma shards on melee hit, is a vengeance iron blade classic

and both veng and iron blades will proc paladins divine bolts talent

so you can have bolts and shards going everywhere

[south zephyr]

Ooooooh FG Volcanus

[polar spire]

naaaa paladin volcanus

[south zephyr]

Depends if there's any block chance damage scaling in Vengeance 😈

[polar spire]

jaspers rive is a good time

i made a jaspers rive build when hh first dropped, didnt really play it myself but a friend took it up to 2500c

[alpine canopy]

tbf, you could take any HH build to thousands of corruption at that point

[south zephyr]

I mean even nerfed into the ground it's pretty great

Automatically tagging a spell scaled hit onto any Melee attack is nice

[polar spire]

Yuppers

[inland quarry]

wait what? HH only turns the spells into melee hits from healing effectiveness right? I thought spell dmg on your weapons don't convert.

[polar spire]

hh turns its spell portion into melee fire, it gets more damage from healing effect, but you dont need to build for healing effect

[alpine canopy]

They mean if you don't take the melee conversion. The other option is getting an extra melee hit with your melee attacks

[polar spire]

if you keep it as on melee hit but as spell, then it can benefit from spell on weapon

[inland quarry]

oh gotcha

[south zephyr]

Which if you want to say, proc smite is a fairly sizeable damage boost

[inland quarry]

yea HH is probably a necessity in almost any melee build

[polar spire]

HH is the new VR and will see its comeuppance in the future

[south zephyr]

Except WP

Sadly

[polar spire]

it'll get VR'd

[inland quarry]

i hope not 😦

[south zephyr]

Ehhhh, maybe a long way down the line

[inland quarry]

hh by itself is kinda trash with the nerf

[polar spire]

but its also just free

[inland quarry]

great self heal though

[polar spire]

and its another hit for ailment builds

[inland quarry]

true

[polar spire]

even if you're a bleeder, its another hit

and dont get me started on shield rush when it works

spamming shield rush in place and HHing every rush

[south zephyr]

Oooh I bet electrify vengeance might be a thing

[polar spire]

to be fair, there needs to be more electrify in the game

im surprised how little there is

[inland quarry]

i tried shield rush. it's buggy and does decent dmg. but despite having 200% aoe nodes or something like that, it's still pretty small and clear is kinda slow

[polar spire]

like frostbites had good placement on uniques, but electrifies placement on uniques doesnt feel as good

[polar spire]

yea you're playing buggy shield rush

not the GOOD shield rush we all remember

you have to play it in offline, it desync in online

[inland quarry]

hmm good idea

[polar spire]

it desyncs BAD in online

[inland quarry]

well, mike told me that he tried it in the season 2 build and it doesn't bug anymore

but maybe he was doing it offline

[polar spire]

but in offline its the greatest dot stacker in the game, the most dot stacks with the biggest chunkiest dots

because shield rush hits 3 times per use, and you can use it 3-4 times per second, so thats 9-12 hits per second

and rush has insane damage scaling, so big fat dots

and then you tack on hh, and thats an extra hit per use

and hh also brings electrify for more dottage

its sad that shield rush desyncs on online, because there are a LOT of sentinel mains here who would 100% swap to a pure shield rush build if it actually worked

[inland quarry]

it's kind of a big L to have a skill unusable for so long

[polar spire]

smelters was sorta the same way, but hey, at least thats possibly being fixed now

[orchid flint]

so now that vengence can be void, erasing strike build should be a lot smoother for single target dps?

[polar spire]

sure, i can see that

[orchid flint]

im thinking about starting with that

[inland quarry]

and vengence should benefit from that 1% more dmg per 3 vit or something like that of VK

[orchid flint]

oh yeah there is that too

yeah void vengence solves all of erasing strike's issues it seems lol

[polar spire]

yea that mana on vengeance hit affix is actually the nerfed version

[south zephyr]

Infinite Sustain Works

[polar spire]

way back in the day, we found it triggered the mana on hit on iron blades too, and we were doing really stupid shit with that

so they had to fix it

[south zephyr]

Damage to Mana Immortal

[polar spire]

i was having a little too much fun with Azurral's Fury belt

being able to sustain the +100 fire on hit for long periods of time

[orchid flint]

seems like erasing strike vengence might be a play

[polar spire]

you get the tankiness of vengeance with the glassy of erasing

sounds good

[orchid flint]

big bonk always nice

[polar spire]

to be fair, people have already done rive/es and veng/es for a while, so this'll get more push for veng/es

[inland quarry]

yea one of my planned builds is probably vengeance or warpath

[south zephyr]

Ooooh that fury belt might be real good on Vengeance FG

[inland quarry]

but definitely doing heartseeker too, can't just ignore that lol

[orchid flint]

everything leads to heartseeker

[south zephyr]

Vengeance is a big unknown with how much it's being reworked tbh

[polar spire]

i'd take 3 mana battery focus mages, and play channeled blade flurry marksman with the throw helm for heartseeker

[south zephyr]

16 hours remain

[orchid flint]

you would only use it on big single target

[inland quarry]

i think vengeance is going to be strong with VK simply due to it having the option to go void

[south zephyr]

And echo

Echo is always a little nuts

[polar spire]

essentially, yes, people played rive/void cleave es while mapping, and then veng/es on bosses

[south zephyr]

Gonna see if I can get Veng to work for clear with Iron Blade

[polar spire]

i hope abyssal echoes keeps its fire/attune nodes

[orchid flint]

thats so cringe having to swap

[polar spire]

i love playing support healer fire abyssal echoes paladin

[inland quarry]

yep, gonna check the mechanics

[polar spire]

abyssal echoes healer paladin healing 5000 a second with 100% uptime

[south zephyr]

Be nice to find a way to trigger an AOE/explosion off iron blades

HH won't work

Volcanus would, but that might be tricky to scale

[polar spire]

paladins holy aura flame burst triggers off iron blades

[orchid flint]

the problem is early erasing strike feels so trash and this would help it a lot

[south zephyr]

Hmmm true true, but I want to play FG 😭

[orchid flint]

because once you get world splitter its pretty good but on bosses you kind of have to be carful but now with vengence void you can probably just sit there face tank a lot tbh

[polar spire]

so multistrike has the smite node where you'll smite targets besides your main, but if it has a new node that lets your swords hit the main, wonder what that means for the smite? is aurelis sword useless now?

[south zephyr]

I mean it's an extra smite hit

[orchid flint]

there are only a few things in this game thats better than a screen clear erasing strike

[south zephyr]

Big BONK

But Hyper attack speed that chains/zaps is also amazing feel

Melee max attack speed that then shotguns at range is always amazing in my book

[polar spire]

how about the fact that rogue gets a bigger minion army than necromancer does?

BEEEESSSSSSS

[south zephyr]

Wow Vengeance has a looot of 'More' in its tree

[orchid flint]

its crazy single target

[south zephyr]

So now I just need to figure out the clear 😈

[polar spire]

needa determine if i wanna play dot or crit multistrike/forgestrike

[orchid flint]

erasing strike lol

[south zephyr]

One button 👿

[polar spire]

the fact paladins get a talent that boosts current ignites on target damage without popping them

hmmmm

[south zephyr]

Hmmm actually it's probably as simple as 100% Iron Blade + DoT stacking

Huuuuh time rot

[polar spire]

dont forget your divine bolts and volcanus

more hits, more dots

ive played vk twice, as i really dont enjoy the mastery, but both times i played it fire based

[orchid flint]

we also dont know what they buff tomorrow hoping for more erasing strike zoom zoom buffs

[south zephyr]

Triple echoed max Mana world splitter ES does sound tempting tbh

[orchid flint]

even in leveling vengeance would make it feel a lot smoother. mana and single target early is super annoying

[south zephyr]

Still hope they add some way of utilizing FW as a scaler for some other skill

Like Lunge consumes X FW to generate a big shotgun AoE or something

That'd be cool

[south zephyr]

Also 40% built in DR

[orchid flint]

and you dont need vr anymore so that opens it up for sigils

[orchid flint]

yeah and with it being void now you can probably just face tank any boss and just leech the health back

[slim spire]

Nice. We have the same thinking. I do wish vengeance can just be used on its own tho, and it generate 1 fw per hit

Never really liked multistrike

[quiet hearth]

So what time patch notes? A man needs his fix EHG.

[robust lake]

12hrs more or less? need it too

[quiet hearth]

[pearl geyser]

i think noon est

[waxen nymph]

https://discord.com/events/368953963267096586/1359958487395864899

[quiet hearth]

Im still coping for some changes for conversion but I am still hyped

[slim spire]

I can't find it atm, but are forgemasters limited to certain 2h + shield only? Or all is OK?

[quiet hearth]

gods I hope it's FG only

Knowing EHG though, it's gonna be like 15pts into FG so VK can use it and being unkillable

[slim spire]

Nono, are the weapons that can be wielded in 1 hand are limited to certain types only?

[quiet hearth]

I havent seen anything stating weapon restrictions

[slim spire]

They already said FG only

[quiet hearth]

I missed that one

[slim spire]

Oh coz I heard staves etc cannot be wielded

As 2h + shield

Maybe due to other reasons tho

[quiet hearth]

That would be kinda weird but not the end of the world

I just want ravaging aura to convert to fire finally as part of the conversion and I will likely not play anything else

[slim spire]

Hah rf eh

[quiet hearth]

maybe we'll get a proper aura of decay one day

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, just staves are excluded, all other 2h are okay

[polar spire]

45 pts into FG

[quiet hearth]

that is waaay in there, good

[polar spire]

2h spear though

Mordita's time

[south zephyr]

Also haste -> Block and then increased haste effect

[polar spire]

Pray it works that way

And they didnt screw up the code

[pearl geyser]

but then you lose haste

im not sold on this node tbh

[polar spire]

which is fine

Not like haste does jack all anyways

[pearl geyser]

well it makes you go fast

[south zephyr]

Frostbite forged weapons?

[polar spire]

I dont need to go fast when i have like 10 mobility skills

Hell jav dash isnt on the same cd as other mobilities

[south zephyr]

I mean 500% ailment is pretty tasty

[polar spire]

Yup, morditas rive

Ive done it

You jump to 1000% frostbite

They get 500%

But they nerfed the cold pen boots a while back

And sents not built for cold, so that hurt frostbite sent a lot

[analog steppe]

they have mentioned that it doesn't work (or that they didnt think it did)

[polar spire]

Well the last boots base has haste effect, so it wouldnt be hard to test

Do you want haste traversal or frenzy traversal

I dont want either, i want T7 cdr so i can spam smite traversal for fat attack speed and melee fire gains

[slim spire]

Source of frostbite?

[waxen nymph]

Mordita's Reach 2h Spear

[orchid flint]

they will buff erasing strike tomorrow. mark my words

[waxen nymph]

I don't expect any dmg nerf for Sentinel, since we are already loosing VR 60/180% More Dmg

[polar spire]

i guess its hybrid sentinel time

[orchid flint]

Big bonk = big meta

[winter copper]

es was already top2 sent builds

starting it in s2 too

[orchid flint]

Leveling with it feels like trash

[winter copper]

not true if u know what to do

just dont play void cleave trash variation

💀

[robust lake]

surely they gonna buff bleeds we are 10 times weaker than frostbite rn according to the post above

[robust lake]

nerf frostbite buff bleed ez

[noble copper]

do we know if the new symbols of hope will have to be on your skill bar to auto generate symbols?

[halcyon yoke]

they confirmed this doesnt work

[little temple]

would be nice if it did though. But probably too op

[fair hollow]

That would be a fairly safe asumption

[junior wren]

the ring version generated sigils even if you didn't have it on your bar, but now it will be the skill generating it, not the ring, so yes very likely you need it to be on the skillbar

[polar spire]

always

they've gotten a lot better about needing to have stuff like that on bar

[little temple]

I wonder if the new sigils still have block chance per sigil

[polar spire]

oh yea! thats true!

that'll be big if so

i wanna see the divine flare changes, i loved shield rushing down a map while spamming divine flare during it

[mental echo]

so is lightning javelin good rn

i wanna test my start but idk if its worth it

cuz it looks like it scores low on most tierlists

[junior wren]

probably since it had no way of killing bosses fast. That changed now, you can do lightning + siege barrage. You can check if those tierlists have an entry for (physical) Siege Barrage Javelin, and the new lightning version should be slightly above that.

[mental echo]

can only find build for bleed or holy trail jav

[polar spire]

Im gonna be honest, while lightning jav is decent

You can prob compare it to poe2's lighting spear right now LMAO

[polar spire]

Jav is fine, don't pay attention to tierlists, unless you're going to look at 5+ tierlists and averaging between

But i also make really stupid builds that work, so thats prob why i hate tierlists

Like if javelin keeps the node at the bottom that makes next melee cost 25 less mana, theres a lotta fun stuff you can do with that

[junior wren]

I think tierlists are very subjective and often misrepresent builds, because often the creator of the tierlist never played many of the builds featured in their tierlist

[echo fractal]

Holy trail is really fun imo if youre thinking about it

I played it to like 700 corruption without issues

[junior wren]

if you don't mind spoilers for a bossfight, here's an Aberroth fight showcasing Lightning Javelin, electrify version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEP-zbJRMno
and here's the upgrade that'll be available next week https://youtu.be/JwFHzzz6zBE?t=3668

[woven temple]

click once, the entire map dies? Yeah that's some falconer gameplay, you are on the wrong class for that

[polar spire]

What we really need is poe2's thorns

Cause holy shit

[robust lake]

Explody ballistas did just that, got hammered pretty fast too I guess

[polar spire]

I havent seen an arpg make thorns work since d3 crusaders

And poe2's thorns is 10x better

[echo fractal]

I'm either going bleed hammers or holy trail I think. Haven't played bleed for years tho, has it been hit with any nerfs for 1.2 that we know of?

[robust lake]

it works up to like T12, with no harsh mods

[polar spire]

Find out in 8 hours

[polar spire]

Thorns?

[robust lake]

then in T15s you'll get perma-frozen/stunned and mashed ur face in

[echo fractal]

Yeah but nthing so far? 🙂

[polar spire]

Thorns works in t16's

[polar spire]

Thats part of the fun, you can get perma stunned as thorns and still kill everything LOL

[robust lake]

Ye sure, if u can survive I can see how it can feel good

[polar spire]

Bleeds only ever gotten a buff, i cant remember any nerfs

[polar spire]

Yea they gave thorns 10% leech in passive tree, i want that shit in LE

You get healed getting hit

[robust lake]

The way it goes poe2 might become playable in a year or two :)

Which is positively nice. Having more games to play is always good

[polar spire]

God i hope so, i got 2 lvl 80's this league and i'd much rather play LE

[robust lake]

I've spent first weekend bashing my head against campaign with minions xD

[polar spire]

But god did it feel so good to play a thorns build that worked

Its 100% getting nerfed

Its disgustingly strong

Any boss with a laser or multihit, 100 to 0's itself hitting you

[robust lake]

ya I've watched a thorns vid how a guy just walks into chimera beam and it flops in <2sec

[polar spire]

The pinnacle citadel boss that fires the mega laser, i watched a thorns build wander into it and 1 shot the boss

Its 1000% getting nerfed

But i want that in LE

[robust lake]

I was honestly tempted to try it out but then I remembered I've gotten 11ex and 3 regals throughout whole ass campaign and just logged out xD

[mental echo]

i wich i still had fun there

but when 2.0 launched i quit xD

[polar spire]

Like said, more arpgs is always good

[robust lake]

yee

let them cook, hopefully they get it done sooner rather than later

[polar spire]

I enjoyed Warhammer Martyr/Prophecy a few months ago, that was a lot of fun

Ya know back on LE topic, i asked the devs about 2 years back if we've ever get more campaign, cause i'd love to experience the ancient era or whatever its called's temple of eterra in all of its glory and at the time they told me its fleshed out era would be twice the size of the current biggest era, and i hope that stays true

I love all the dark and gritty of last epoch and arpgs as a whole, but i also love the lush vibrant colors of that era and would love to see more of it

[mental echo]

i hate campaigns in general

[polar spire]

I just want more vibrant colors and less dark and gritty

[robust lake]

oh they gonna get an earful from fellow redditors and other folks about making campaign even bigger lmao kinda looking forward how that enfolds

[polar spire]

With the dungeon skips it isnt as bad

And even right now you dont have to finish the campaign unless you want +1 all att, which is negligible

You can get all your idol slots and passive points and skip out on the last few hours of campaign

[robust lake]

+1 att is super poggies, thats +5 to red ring . \ _ /.

[polar spire]

I would like to see a touch up on the cinematic with the fire bird and the ice centaur thingy i cant remember their names anymore

The cinematic quality of the models is oof

[robust lake]

early animations were comedy indeed xD

t-posing happens still to minor extent

[polar spire]

Ive no idea why most arpg campaigns i cannot stomache going through more than a handful of times, but last epocs ive gone through about 50-60 times over the years

Ive only ever gone through poe1's maybe 10 times, and poe2's 3 times

[robust lake]

I'm usually making only one character per season unless I'm really keen on trying something out or luck into boatload of currency. Mastery respec gonna feel good :3 VK is definitely on the radar

[dim ingot]

I'm so hype to cook a void rive ! Since we know that we can go full void damages !

[robust lake]

I wonder how much ms can one stack with Darkstride

think my vk was at like 84% with no lps or effort

might actually rival rogues with a ton of flat

[polar spire]

Will rive finally have void conversion?

[polar spire]

Im typically the same with most arpg's but not last epoch

I actually do the season start farming with le

Werebears are usually best for that

Werebears are so braindead easy with the way ehg set them up, its like baby's first arpg when playing them

Excellent season start farmers because of it

[robust lake]

yeh that one time I went MG I've made like 3 characters XD eventho it was "dupe season", gold was flowing

LE levelling in general is quick and thus easy kinda, to me at least

[quaint current]

Yeah and also kinda rewarding got a bunch of cool legendary in the first 40 levels

But i wonded if is it only because this lomg season

[robust lake]

one of my buddies dropped a 3lp ladle mid-campaign, dont skip yo mages psure that made his sorc starter

[quaint current]

Yeah

[dim ingot]

Yes !

[onyx glade]

So I was wondering... if I play a summoner Forge Guard (Manifest Armor + Summon weapons via Forge Strike), my mainstat is attunement?

[eager carbon]

Do you really wanna invest into mana though?

[waxen nymph]

Main attribute yes

But at the same time it's not that great

[onyx glade]

The thing is, i like the Class Fantasy of 2hand + shield we can do in Season 2.

[junior wren]

4% minion dmg per point, seems about as great as any other skill scaling

[south zephyr]

Technically yes, but it's really not a good way to scale them for the most part

[obsidian thicket]

I guess minions that scale via int or str also give some defensive boost from scaling that stat.

[junior wren]

yes 🙂 you can see it when you hover the skill that summons the minion

they get HP

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah but say for int on necromancer before the changes 1 int was

• 4% minion dmg
• 4% minion life
• 4% ward retention

So you also scale your own defence and minion defence from that 1 stat

[fair hollow]

You have dot defence with attunement as sentinel

[obsidian thicket]

Is that a sentinal specific passive ?

As normally attunement just give mana

[fair hollow]

Yes its one of the threshold passive effects

Fg tree first half

[obsidian thicket]

But that's just for dots not all damage ?

[fair hollow]

Correct

[onyx glade]

2 Attunement = 1% Armor applies to dots

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah I mean attunement is the best option but it's still not great

It only effects dots not just normal hits

[onyx glade]

Kind of a shame only forge guard gets 2hander + Shield ._.

That's the main reason i consider this 😅

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah if it's just a visual thing you want not mechanics it's only option

[onyx glade]

Well, i do play heavy block builds in PoE, so wanna test how block builds maybe play in LE

[dapper pond]

Just to clarify, it's only for 2-Hander and a Shield. I can't run around dual wielding Greatswords ... 🫢

[onyx glade]

Correct

Still means a ton of bonus stats, as you have 2handed scaling on mainhand + 1 handed scaling on shield... plus shield block as defensive layer

[dapper pond]

I was joking, mostly. Would be cool though.

[halcyon yoke]

some people tried to make it happen : #🔱┃sentinel message

[junior wren]

If you want to compare classes, then you're forgetting there are items and passives that also scale with stats. For example, most Mages get 3% increased spell crit per 1 INT. Then there are various other bonuses, like Ward Decay Threshold per INT, flat damage per INT, etc.

So it's not like Sentinels only lose out because their minion attribute is ATN

[obsidian thicket]

It's not as crazy op as in poe.

Not done it in a while I think it's broken down into chance and Effectiveness. So you might have a really high chance to block but if you have 50% block effectiveness you still take 50% of dmg from blocked hits.

[tight jolt]

I wonder if you can use the axe that counts as a shield for Forgemaster’s Might 🤔

[junior wren]

Yup. The defenses are as follows:

• Parry has x% chance to prevent 100% of damage.
• Dodge has x% chance to prevent 100% of damage.*
• Armor has 100% chance to prevent x% of damage.
• Block has x% chance to prevent y% of damage.
• Endurance has 100% chance to prevent x% of damage when below y Health.
• Glancing Blow has x% chance to prevent 35% of damage.
• Damage to Mana before Health has 100% chance to prevent x% of damage, but 1/5 of the prevented damage is dealt to your mana.

*certain big attacks ignore Dodge
** Parry, Dodge, Block and Glancing Blow don't work on Damage over Time. Armor can partially work against DoT if you have the proper affix.

[junior wren]

it's a 1H axe, not a shield, so no.

[waxen nymph]

I mean you can, in your main hand as a 1hander ^^

[junior wren]

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah I know people used to mix them. Like you wanted armour to prevent all dmg and then some block to reduce some hits and glancing to help also.

Is damage to mana before health a mod on items ?

I actually have a build in mind that will have lots of mana gained so that seems good.

[supple notch]

Is damage to mana before health a mod on items ?

It's mostly, but not exclusively, a Mage thing as I recall

[tight jolt]

But also a shield

[onyx glade]

Survivability onion... the more layers the better the onion.

[waxen nymph]

Its an Axe with shield affixes
But for all purposes its an axe

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah but there is lots of more layers than just big life pool than block.

There was some builds that got to 100% chance for glancing blows as a generic 35% reduced dmg taken for example

[obsidian thicket]

Ahh that sucks..... I have mana too

[waxen nymph]

Seed of Ekkidrasil exists

[supple notch]

Yeah, that's why it was mostly, but not exclusively 🙂

I do think that's the only option though

But I'm not certain on that

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah the helmet I think will be bad for my build overall since I can instead get a helmet that gives big ward.

I was hoping more that I can get like random 8% on gloves or something like that

[waxen nymph]

Not even sure it works with Ward
But I might be wrong

[obsidian thicket]

Just to check is this all dmg ?

Like if I get hit by some fireball does block ect count ?

[waxen nymph]

Yes, since it's a hit

[junior wren]

game mechanics don't read flavor text sadly, so not a shield 🙂

[south zephyr]

Yeah all hit damage, armor less effective vs non-phys tho

[waxen nymph]

There is no Spell/Melee specific defenses

[lethal cove]

I hope sent provides for a good auto bomber

[obsidian thicket]

Okay just thinking about defence. Like if it's worth adding some dodge / block / glancing idols onto a build that won't have much.

Or if it's just better to get ward / life on those slots

Just as going from 0 block to 5% block seems really big.

[supple notch]

Damage taken from mana and ward? No, it doesn't, almost certainly. I've been playing a mage that stacks ward and damage taken from mana because I can't seem to survive any other way, the mana doesn't seem to do anything until my ward's gone.

It is "Damage Dealt to Mana Before Health", after all

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah makes sense

[junior wren]

Armor is less effective against Fireball than against Physical damage, but yes, it is against all damage.

each of the defenses has some caveat or difficulty

[supple notch]

Super important addendum to this list, actually - a lot of the classes just have some less damage taken multiplier as well

Like, Sentinel has the "less damage taken from nearby enemies" thingin the skill tree

As the example most relevant to this channel

[junior wren]

to get HP or defenses is not a simple question, but the benefit if is often explained with eHP, so you can do some math if you're really interested in that.
My advice is to have both. 5000 HP but no defense is worse than 3000 HP and 70% reduction

[woven temple]

game mechanics
flavor text
Cowards can't block Warriors right?

[south zephyr]

Vastly worse

[obsidian thicket]

Yeah.

Maybe I'll need to do some maths.

Just thinking about getting ward to allow target hits vs glancing and block to reduce the hits I take.

[south zephyr]

% Less damage is super strong

[junior wren]

sorry, I don't understand

[woven temple]

it's a famous example of "game mechanics = flavor text" from MTG

it's a perfectly functional rules text on a card

it also reads like flavor text

kinda a meme over there

[junior wren]

still lost. I'll take it it's some esoteric knowledge for a certain group

[turbid dome]

Rules text is the flavor text

[south zephyr]

Cowards!

[turbid dome]

Bro screams -> rushes into battle -> everyone there is terrified and can’t block him

[junior wren]

ah, so he's talking about card games. Well, what you posted is not the flavor text. This is flavor text.

[south zephyr]

He's saying that cards that only have rules text may have implicit flavor based on those rules

[turbid dome]

Exactly newbosauras

[junior wren]

..which does not apply for the 1H axe

[turbid dome]

Eh? I think the shield stats on it work well enough for it to be viewed as a shield, even tho yes mechanically it is an axe

Better to make it an axe than make a custom weapon type just for one thing

But also my entire point with showing the mtg card was to explain the cowards can’t block warriors thing, not actually say stuff in the discussion that spawned that

[junior wren]

The question was if the shield axe would count as shield for Forgemasters... and here we are discussing flavor text on trading card games. Sometimes I feel like I should only mechanically answer questions and mention as little info as possible, because just mentioning "flavor" spawned this train of thought that only served to bring confusion.

[turbid dome]

Fair

Tho that is just how discussions can go

[tight jolt]

It was a joke question anyway lol

[turbid dome]

🐟

[tight jolt]

So my bad I guess

[turbid dome]

lol its good

[slim spire]

wait I thought FW are boosted by Strength as well?

[junior wren]

well, I'm afraid you thought incorrectly 🙂

[slim spire]

rip I was too focused on Forged Strike

thanks for the correction

[slim spire]

but hold on. Strength will boost you, no? So that will indirectly boost your FW's? Or it doesn't work that way?

[junior wren]

You know the answer. Does your %inc damage somehow move to your minion?

[regal dirge]

Hi! I will play for first time a sentinel /mark.. I have a lot of questions, i have followed up guides everytime i played this kind of games. For the first time i will try to build by my own a hearthseeker build. I know i need to have into account if i want to build around single or multi. I will choose use it as a single skill. So, should i use another multi skill like multishot or other skills, additionally to smoke bomb, dash and decoy? or if i go hearthseek it will be my only dmg skill?

[slim spire]

waittt a minute. So if I got %increased damage, my forged weapons don't get it?

[junior wren]

indeed. They only get % minion damage, OR - special case - % increased damage on your weapon, because forged weapons scale from weapon.

[slim spire]

ok mind blown

apparently I've been building my char wrong from the ground up

no wonder I've been having difficulties vs harbingers

[junior wren]

as many before you 🙂 just today I was in a twitch stream of a forge guard, where the player thought his forged weapons deal fire damage.

[south zephyr]

Yeah FW wants a real high damage weapon, attunement and minion boosting stats

[south zephyr]

I mean they can depending on your weapon and or other skills

But not by default for sure

TBF they do look like they should

Being you know, on fire and all

[inland quarry]

actually 'increase melee dmg' and 'increased dmg' do work currently. but when patch 2.0 drops, it will no longer be the case.

[junior wren]

If you want advice for Heartseeker, you should probably post in the #🔪┃rogue section, as Heartseeker isn't a Sentinel skill. But we are very envious of it for sure