🔱┃sentinel

[waxen nymph]

Rebuke

[split quartz]

True

Dont like rebuke is stationary

[waxen nymph]

A very tanky Manifest Armor help you survive

[waxen nymph]

Me neither

[split quartz]

They could make it that you cast it and Can move with the movement penalty or something

And tbh, Shield bash is the tankiest build i played as sentinel

Its just the Unique Shield/axe is mandatory

If you could use 2H+Shield i am curious what will change

[inland quarry]

less dmg lol

maybe 10% more with high LP weapon

[wicked monolith]

Does disintegrating aura inherit strength/Dex scaling from hammers?

[waxen nymph]

Yup

[winged pulsar]

El warpatho mucho goodo?

[alpine canopy]

Oui

[rustic mortar]

Whats a good void knight build that’s easy to play/cheap and a great boss killer ?

[turbid dome]

hammer throw is the normal leveling/use until you get the gear for a different build

vk can also do void cleave (make next es a crit) + erasing strike

Warpath is also there

[polar spire]

autobomber? prob the only one i know

friend still plays it

[analog steppe]

I wouldn’t ask for any sentinel builds atm given the fact that the class rework will change up a bunch of stuff

[winter copper]

you are overestimating the ""rework"" we already saw many skills and they are basically same with higher multipliers, like judgment, multistrike, warpath, rive etc

the only thing that would drastically change imo is dev orb and javelin, everything else is safe to play now, itll be just better numerically next patch

[analog steppe]

When ppl ask for “builds” they tend to want to be spoon fed exactly what points to take etc. so looking up old patch guides for builds is kinda pointless for those ppl

[winter copper]

ye i gotchu

[eager carbon]

Misha, could you spoon feed me next patch?

[winter copper]

[polar spire]

Misha, could you spoon feed me uwu

[spring pollen]

100% iron blades build next patch. New meta.

[spring pollen]

Is there any kind of cooldown on riposte? Or you just need to be hit within the 2 second window?

[waxen nymph]

The latter

[spring pollen]

Ok kewl

[waxen nymph]

I am quite excited to see how good they will be

[winter copper]

are u tho

😰

[waxen nymph]

There is a lot of unknown imo with the new idols
We don't know what is going to happen there

[waxen nymph]

Don't forget I am the cope-Master

Maybe that will be Sentinel 4th Mastery

[winter copper]

ya im just saying that current builds are viable

besides void beams and discor hammers, if that survives i would be very surprised

[waxen nymph]

Discor Hammer?

[last ember]

The bleed javelin looked kinda cool to me
I found a few unique that seemed cool for it

[spring pollen]

Stuff like this in vengeance tree looks pretty nice sorry for bad quality I’m grabbing from YouTube

[spring pollen]

If I have flat melee damage on my weapon, would that apply to both vengeance and the iron blade subskill?

[junior wren]

yes

[spring pollen]

Ok thanks

[wicked monolith]

thoughts on which one to slam in a 3lp siphon of anguish for void hammer build?

[spring pollen]

You guys think the phalanx spear or renegades will would be better for a vengeance build? They both seem pretty good

[waxen nymph]

I am afraid the spear is going to be slow

[spring pollen]

Good point

[waxen nymph]

But as retaliation build 🔥

That Spear + Sigeon Shield

And when you get hit you shoot Javelins and Shields

[crude dune]

retal what ?

[spring pollen]

I was thinking that could be fun but bosses might be a pain 😂

[waxen nymph]

Yeah

[prisma hatch]

when i see people here refer to 2H, shield. How is it possible to wield a 2handed weapon and a shield?

[alpine canopy]

It's not yet, but that is coming for Forge Guard in the next update

[prisma hatch]

oh ok thanks

[alpine canopy]

With the cooldown shield throw and siege barrage

[prisma hatch]

they are adding coolddown to shield throw?

[alpine canopy]

Bosses might not be too terrible even using those as your main attacks

[alpine canopy]

It has one currently, but in the new version it won't have a cooldown by default and instead you can give it a cooldown again for a big damage and ricochet boost

[prisma hatch]

oh nut the cooldown resets when it returns

thst is why I never noticed the cooldown

my favorite build is the shield throw build

my buggest challenge is finding a decent weapon that adds to shield throw other than +physical damage

[noble zenith]

i need to try a forgeguard build one day, always did paladin on sentinel

[quiet hearth]

I whole hearted endorse triple dot Forgeguard

[turbid dome]

[quiet hearth]

I'm really excited to redo things after the changes

still waiting on that heriot mastery though

[alpine canopy]

We have 3 Heorot masteries at home

[austere coral]

About to get my revenge - at the start of the cycle my build hit the wall and didn't manage to get through the Harbies. Now I finally got all 10 down and am about to fight Aberroth. But that's tommorow, for right now it's 1am and I'm tired

[spring pollen]

Other than weapon, are there any sources of flat fire or melee damage I can access as forge guard ? Trying to find things to juice the renegades will damage

[analog steppe]

current FG passive tree has +10 flat phys and fire to both melee and throwing, thats the only one in the passives (could change with update)

[alpine canopy]

Falcon fist gloves, sunwreath rings, and also someone mentioned earlier about stacking mana on vengeance and using azurral's fury

Oh yeah, and symbols of hope of course. And proccing melee HH is kinda like getting added fire melee damage lol

[spring pollen]

Awesome thanks for the help guys

I never thought to use that belt before lol. When it says mana does not regenerate does that include things like mana on hit with vengeance?

100 melee fire damage is huge

[alpine canopy]

No, it should be basically just like being in a primalist transform, except the mana decay ramps up

and the mana expended per attack, but of course you can stack more than 20 mana on use for vengeance or rive

never tried it myself either

[zealous junco]

Is cyclone still a thing lads? The ol spin to win?

[alpine canopy]

Always

[spring pollen]

I see mana gain of 10 on passive tree and 9 to 11 from t7 on chest 🙃

Any other sources you can think of?

[alpine canopy]

The chest one is affected by the chest affix multi, so it tops out at 17

[spring pollen]

Wow I did not know that! Might have to go test this right now

[zealous junco]

Hell yeah! Haven't done a cyclone type build for ages. What is the skill called so I can look it up

[alpine canopy]

Here it is called warpath

[zealous junco]

Warpath?

Yewh sick

Thanks.

Apprenrly its getting buffed. I dont really want to play Marksman like everyone else haha

[pearl geyser]

yeah i cant wait to play updated sentinel

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, hopefully sentinel will be really spicy next season

[winter copper]

copeee

[alpine canopy]

This is a safe space where we can prep for sentinel meta

[uneven gorge]

Plot twist; the slab is going to have a 100% block chance meta that they forgot about

[winged pulsar]

Warpath will be so op that if anyone plays it I will report them.

[winter copper]

block or erasing strike everything else bad

[pearl geyser]

im kinda hoping hammer smiter still pretty ok

[turbid dome]

Hammer throw smite not being like the best leveling build would be weird af

[waxen nymph]

Fun fact : Fissure inside Smite is bugged (again) and is not Fire

Its Physical 🤡

I am starting to imagine EHG hates Fissure (joke obviously)

There used to be a bug where it would not benefit from Sacrifice, and now it doesnt even deal the proper type of dmg

Maybe one day we will be able to use it

[winter copper]

it doesnt hate fissure it hates sentinel

proven many times over years

and is a fact

[junior wren]

quick, go make a secret bleed+fissure build 😄

[waxen nymph]

It's fine we are getting a rework

[junior wren]

I read that topic about fissure. Since void converts fissure to void, does the Lightning conversion from the skill tree convert fissure to lightning aswell?

or using better wording.. should it convert to lightning? :D

[waxen nymph]

No, it says so on the conversion Node

And it indeed doesn't convert it

But I wish it would

Especially with the new Paladin passive

[junior wren]

it would make sense for the electrify boost in 1.2

[waxen nymph]

More Lightning Dmg per Crit Multi

[little oyster]

I've been leveling my first sentinel for a bit now and enjoying void knight pretty thoroughly. I got this the other day and am wondering if holy aura is a good enough skill to roll a paladin just to use this.

[empty path]

The spell on each X hits is particularly good on holy aura

[junior wren]

Probably not. Holy aura isn't usually a skill where you really really want the extra skill points. You would get a small bonus from it, lets say 40% HP regen or 40% increased healing.

If you manage to roll a +4 Smite or +4 Judgement on that relic, that would be a good reason to start a Paladin

[little oyster]

Okie doke, thanks. I'll keep it stashed for now.

[grand bear]

In the next patch I would also love javelin levels

[junior wren]

I guess the full listing of sought-after relic +skill affixes would be: Hammer Throw, Javelin, Smite, Judgement, Void Cleave, Shield Bash and (big maybe) Symbols of Hope after the rework

[grand bear]

Btw, they cleaned up the tree for javelin a bit

The new tree the last they showed. The numbers are for a 20 point setup for lightning jav going into the new patch I would like to do.

There is a new node that could potentially be crit vulnerability. It at least has the same icon that one dive bomb node has.

[waxen nymph]

It's armor shred per str

[grand bear]

Oh really?

That's neat

Did they talk about the node somewhere?

[waxen nymph]

Yeah we looked at the tree frame by frame 😁

[grand bear]

Lolol

Saves me some affixes then

[waxen nymph]

Let me see if I can find it again

[grand bear]

Though I was only planning for someone like 30-50 strength

[waxen nymph]

My bad

Frailty and Phys Shred

[grand bear]

Still good

[waxen nymph]

Most likely get converted to Lightning

[grand bear]

That is my current hope lol

Wanting to do lightning so it isn't like armor shred is as important anyway

[junior wren]

it kinda is though

[grand bear]

I just mean relative to phys builds. Still very important I admit.

[junior wren]

https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/armor calc says that 40 armor shred stacks is 40% more dmg from non-physical hits

[grand bear]

Isn't it nearly twice as much for phys?

[junior wren]

57% more for physical

[grand bear]

Ah, gotcha

Last I thought I remembered it was something like a 40% difference in power

[waxen nymph]

Armor is 70% Less Effective for non phys hit

[gusty abyss]

70% as effective or 30% less 😉

But that really is a whole topic. As 75% dr vs 52% is not 30% less EHP, closer to 50% less.

[junior wren]

57 * 0.7 = 39.9 so calc checks out

[crude dune]

Let's go Math-battle let wreck our 🧠

this is your written theory, but did you check Numbers in game ?

[gusty abyss]

1000hp with 50% DR is 2000 EHP, with 75% dr it is 4000.

[crude dune]

if "less" opposes "more", what opposes "increased" ?

[gusty abyss]

reduced

[crude dune]

where is your Endu tresh ? :p

[crude dune]

thanks you right !

omg, so "reduce damage taken" is bad?

or less than less

[gusty abyss]

endurance would apply equally regardless

[crude dune]

As someone told me "just stack a lot of Ward" ;o and don't get hit

[gusty abyss]

With endurance treshold getting a buff, I think we are gonna see that stacked on paladin.

[crude dune]

Sounds interesting ! gonna keep an 👀 on it

[grand bear]

Oh, didn't know they were buffing threshold :o

[crude dune]

i saw an interesting discussion about "affixes - prefix and suffix related to offensive/defensive mechanics :: conclusion was "Endu tresh was too low (numeric value) AND taking other layers slots like %Health", so it was detrimental -- they show that ward wadn't concern about it, can't remeber details

[junior wren]

Embrace the rock. Become the mountain.

[crude dune]

is it a wwe ref ? it inspire me, sounds promise for HC "Become the Mountain"

[alpine canopy]

No, it would be better really, if you can stack multiple ones. That's that almost all are less dmg taken

[junior wren]

I was just thinking of the unique boots 😄

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzBMoVgZiA

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, like it's not a dead affix, but it's less optimal compared to just having health in that affix slot

[grand bear]

My initial plan was using like three out of four of the mountain unique 😂

[crude dune]

Dodge stacking Sentinel let's gooo

[grand bear]

(replied to wrong person, oops)

[crude dune]

technicaly, if you have all mountain item, you ARE the mountain !

[grand bear]

The boots alongside being super tanky with the javelin node that gives pierce if you stand still

[crude dune]

let's go Sentinels, waiting for your S2 Sentinel "Embrace the rock. Become the mountain" builds !

[gusty abyss]

I think I am gonna voidify my not so meme smite warpath paint build.

[junior wren]

I think I'm gonna try some primalist

😏

[grand bear]

Lightning javelin raining from above go brr

[gusty abyss]

I really would like the see the paladin passive tree changes. Maybe it actually has some thing worth picking up in it now

[grand bear]

Current plan is just sending forge guard for the 2h plus shield node

[gusty abyss]

Question is, electrify yes or no and smite yes or no.

[grand bear]

Oh, true

[crude dune]

no no, current plan is : Hammerdin as 5th alt ; then maybe wait for nerf/fix OP build so i can do 1

[grand bear]

Electrify smite javelins could be snazzy

[gusty abyss]

If electrify, then also smite, then def paladin.

But if you go crit, you might still be able to slot smite on top

[crude dune]

Why not both ? ;o

[grand bear]

Was thinking crit lightning jav on FG

Could do smite just for extra healing as well

[gusty abyss]

Yeah, could use smite for the support benefits. The attack speed also works for throwing.

And with new life regen affixes, the % health regen buff from smite might also be decent support value

[junior wren]

lots of ppl seem to be hyped about the lightning javelin, but I don't see why. It's basically a worse version of the physical siege barrage build

[grand bear]

There is a spear base with 75% fire res and a shield with 75% phys res btw ;)

[grand bear]

Looks cool :)

[junior wren]

yeah it does look cool, gotta admit that 😄

[grand bear]

I'm not out here competing so if it works well enough I don't have issues with it

[junior wren]

I wish it worked like diablo 2 lightning fury

[grand bear]

Never played with it in d2.. I do know they were comparing the two though

[junior wren]

d2 is you throw one, which splits into many, and the amount is based on the amount of monsters around. So if you stack monsters, you get huge lightning all over your screen.

basically same mechanic as the current divine fury node in LE, but LE limits it to 8 lightning spears

[grand bear]

We can at least throw something like 5 at a time at least

[gusty abyss]

Import to add, the D2 version could get pierce chance trough gear, allowing it to proc the split for each target hit.

[junior wren]

IMO what the rework should've been is:

• remove the limiter for 8 lightning spears and make it X monsters = X spears like D2
• if there is only one monster (boss situation), the spears instead rain down like the siege barrage

[gusty abyss]

I think 8 is good enough, a new node that would allow pierce back though, that would be a game changer

[junior wren]

I don't know, if the 8 is good enough, that means your clear was okay even on current patch

but in that case divine fury definitely struggled with bosses

[gusty abyss]

It was, the problem is single target. Which siege barrage was good at.

[grand bear]

Which got buffed

[crude dune]

Light javelin is litteraly picture of Zeus striking mobs

[junior wren]

more like it got enabled to work together 😄

[grand bear]

No, like also got buffed

[junior wren]

how did it get buffed?

[grand bear]

2 less mana and one extra spear from what I remember

[gusty abyss]

I thought just 2 less mana?

[junior wren]

😄

okay, technically got buffed

[crude dune]

2 less mana and + 0.00001 flat / level YEEES !

[grand bear]

The default node got an extra one

At least on the steam with karv, Mike and ghazzy

[junior wren]

maybe it's supposed to be the VR compensation

[grand bear]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

The javelin tree is also several less points for the nodes I wanted

[gusty abyss]

Yeah, base crit is in a way better spot

[crude dune]

Sure they tested it all to make an harmonious balance without destroying existing builds. Right ?

[junior wren]

yeah, but you'll still be kinda point-starved

[grand bear]

True

[junior wren]

they should've moved one more thing, divine fury. It shouldn't be behind electrify

why does hit build need to take the dot-only node

fixed 😄

[crude dune]

you'll understand the 11th, everything will be Revealed ! You'll say "that make sens ! "

[junior wren]

I mean look at the image mastahslayah planned #🔱┃sentinel message

[grand bear]

Node tax ;)

Could also just send dot build

[junior wren]

at least it doesn't lower your DPS like Cadence does for Rive

so could be worse 😄

[crude dune]

First time taking Hopium in my life, so i went all in :/ wait and see

[alpine canopy]

Flavor and point tax, I guess. Smite does the same thing, too.

Well even worse because the conversion itself is also behind the mandatory electrify node lol

But anyway, electrify jav+smite is good as-is, the worry is how single target will be without VR

[crude dune]

Nah they said they gonna give Sentinels "Wings", Sentinel S2 is the New Falconner !

But "Hammer better faster stronger" !

[junior wren]

Forge Guard has flying swords, so new minion: flying crossbows. A ranged FG minion build

[crude dune]

flying "Ornmental" sword, they run after monster but never hit them :v but they shine on boss !

[junior wren]

upgrade path: flying ballistae. We become Argentus 😄

[crude dune]

xD

[spring pollen]

DO you guys think vengeance will ever compete with rive for damage? Rive seems to have much stronger scaling at the moment with scrap metal etc and double 2h weapon stats....

[junior wren]

wait for patch and see

but vengeance was kinda the defensive option

[spring pollen]

yeah good point

[waxen nymph]

Mb, typed too fast

[rapid cedar]

Manfest armor, so you want two sets of gear? since it inherits the gear when summoned, then again from the gear your wearing? That's not immediately obvious to me, but someone mentioned it.

[waxen nymph]

No it snapshot when you summon it, but then it doesn't change

[rapid cedar]

Well, wouldn't you swap to different gear then if it snapshots? Have stuff like a bunch of flat damage on a sword then swap it for stuff like % increased minion damage, since that should still affect him?

[junior wren]

yes, you want two gear sets. but only if you want to minmax, you could also use just one and be sub-optimal 😏

[rapid cedar]

oh, just read you would have to resummon every single map. that sounds annoying to have to swap gear that often.

[waxen nymph]

You can either give it a full dmg gear and swap to a full tanky gear for you
Or do the other way around
But for echoes it's super annoying and also it's unintended to work that way

[woven temple]

equipping gear with minion damage wont affect it at that point since it already snapshotted without it

[rapid cedar]

if it works like animate guardian from poe having him snapshot gear with % minion damage wouldn't do anything for him anyways, since he is not his own minion. the % minion damage has to be on the gear your wearing after he is summoned.

[junior wren]

that would mean rings and amulets with minion damage don't ever work on MA 🙂

[woven temple]

they work just fine if you don't abuse bugs

[rapid cedar]

they do because he never inherits them himself anyways

[woven temple]

it does inherit the stats but they do nothing on it since it doesn't have minions

but tbh the way in which any given stat does or does not work on MA is completely paradoxical, don't try to find logic in it

[junior wren]

yeah he inherits them, but he doesn't have any minions of his own

paradoxical? I thought it was just limited to "simple" stats like speed, damage, hp, armor

[rapid cedar]

I don't think so, can't he apply doom and stuff if its on a weapon he gets stats from

[woven temple]

yeah, for instance, why don't attributes work on it? cause reasons

which unique affixes do and don't work on it? only mike knows

nah actually he doesn't even know it offhand, he has to go check the code

[junior wren]

yeah no proc chances and ailments and special affixes like "gain a stack of X"

[junior wren]

cause minions dont have attributes, only players do

[woven temple]

yes, and why don't they? well.. uh.. ummm... yea well for reasons

[rapid cedar]

really, i didn't realize he could not do ailments might have to rethink apathy's maw then

[woven temple]

how do you think bleed shield throw builds used to work when they were popular?

your MA does the bleeds

and it does them by scaling off your bardiche with bleed chance

[junior wren]

so ailments work then

[junior wren]

because minions don't equip gear and idols, which is the only source of attributes

Thinking about it, I would program that the same way. If I have 50 minions already done and there's 0 ways to buff their Strength, they don't need no attributes.
But if I decided to make a minion that does use player's gear, I would make a list of the ones that work and put it somewhere where the player can read it.

[woven temple]

now. This is a typical example of building systems with no overhead for future development. What if they add an aura that gives all allies around 10 str or something? Whoops

or what if they make a minion that gets stats from player's items directly? whoops

what if they want to move to a system where minions in general scale with player stats? whoops

[junior wren]

then you got +10 and your minion benefits at the moment of summoning, because y'know stat scaling

[alpine canopy]

That's how it does work

[alpine canopy]

No. "Minion damage" snapshots onto your minions as "damage" at the time you summon them.

Putting on or removing minion stat gear after summoming doesn't affect those already summoned minions at all

[rapid cedar]

Really? That seems opposite of how several people have said it. In the end it doesn't matter too much. I can't be arsed to change gear to resummon him every single map. That will get annoying. I'll just find some middle ground gear.

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, snapshotting is awful, middle ground gear is the way to go for sure

[winter copper]

mine applies doom just fine 🤷‍♀️

[winter copper]

that is not true, are u guys cooked?

there is literally a whole build called bleed MA, which is btw best version of MA that build around it applying insane bleeds

and apathy maw works just fine with it im literaly playing with it rn

[winter copper]

dont change gear that affects level of manifest armor and snapshot works just fine

if you are playing offline u will need snapshot every map if online only when you enter monolith area(not end of time town)

[spring pollen]

Havent played FG with new RoS passive node since it was released. That generates a ton of shields lol I hope the DoT rework on it becomes interesting......

[alpine canopy]

I lost a lot of hope on that when I saw the 20% damage penalty for 2h + shield, but it'll definitely be better than it is now

But that's not a recommendation, because currently their fire aura is more of a small space heater

[winter copper]

20% is fine as long as u can abuse bulwark or ukheros

with 2h its still damage positive

[scenic gyro]

tried ukheros recently and it didnt feel crazy good
anything that needs you to get hit isnt that stellar in late game
how are you guys making it work

[winged pulsar]

bash do big damage

[scenic gyro]

i guess for mana cost scaling

i was more thinking about mana sustain

[alpine canopy]

You can't do either, or really much of anything, for RoS fire aura

[fluid sparrow]

What do people mean by retaliation thingies, is it... pure vengeance, the hit back?

[alpine canopy]

Retaliation in general means dealing damage procced by taking hits/damage

[fluid sparrow]

ah ok

Reflect, vengeance thingy, etc etc ok ok thx 😄

Hmpf, 2 more weeks 😦

And still can't decide which sentinel I wanna make

[winter copper]

im genuenly buffled that karv even mentioned that in the interview, its so troll idk how people can believe there is anything into it

its a minion dot spell...like u are forge guard how u gonna scale that, its insanity

[winter copper]

go sigeon shiled+new vengeance spear and spam vengeance/rebuke with javelin+shield throw retaliation, FULL MEEMEE send it

[winter copper]

no.

[crude dune]

Bees - Shark-Bees - And full Retaliate Sentinel or nothing !

[winter copper]

oh and pick multistrike for on block procs

[fluid sparrow]

I love melee, but vengeance is melee, shield throw is throw... isn't that coutner intuitive? 😛

[winter copper]

its not

u can scale both just do str stacking

[fluid sparrow]

true true

[winter copper]

u only sacrifice few prefixes for flat throwing dmg which doesnt matter

[fluid sparrow]

the only downside that i can think of, do bosses hit fast enough to receive good dmg from vengeance riposte? 😛

[winter copper]

true retaliate builds dont do bosses

[fluid sparrow]

😄

[turbid dome]

real

[crude dune]

i saw a retaliate Druid doing Lagon, was fun

[winter copper]

just think about this powerful image in monos mobs swarm you and u retaliate with 3 shields+3 javelins per second and many counter attacks from base sentinel tree with 100% crit+vengeance retaliates and insane THORN dmg for only 5 pts in fg tree

real powermove

[fluid sparrow]

true

i will add it to my roulette or something 😛

Hate the fact that Karv was tempting us to make pure time rot builds

😛

[alpine canopy]

Maybe we'll get a new shield that gives it 1000% more damage

[winged pulsar]

Now picture this. You press warpath.

[winter copper]

rebuke>warpath

[turbid dome]

unique shield "The Rolling Threat"

• generic shield stats here
• Rebuke is now a channeled mana per second skill that causes you to roll around as if you were in a giant ball, dealing damage to things you roll into it

[alpine canopy]

Give it a silly rolling animation and I'm in

[halcyon yoke]

this is for 1.3, for 1.2 we already have the mage version

[winged pulsar]

Unique belt "I Win Button"
-Warpath now does screen wide damage
-Warpath is now op

[halcyon yoke]

If it's a belt, what about "I Win Buckle"

[winged pulsar]

Also acceptable

[halcyon yoke]

i have a warpath idea, but it's too soon to know if it's brilliant or meme

[winter copper]

idk i dont trust in wp for arena at least, it has no leverage over snapshot manifst for example but we will see

[halcyon yoke]

oh, 99% it's a pure meme, but you can go up to like 97% avoidance
so it's the epitome of high corruption builds
but it will likely lack to damage to go that high

[little shadow]

can any body suggest a link for a forge strike/manifest armour build focusing on minion damage more?

thinking for season 2 or after patch

[tacit zealot]

afaik FG is getting a big rework/overhaul so till patch notes i dont think there will be anything relevant or at least 100% accurate

[polar spire]

with 3 focus mages granting you mana, you can do that

source: ive done it

you have 1 warpather in the middle of arena, and 3 mages granting them mana

nothing enters the screen

[winged pulsar]

thats poretty cool

[turbid dome]

eldritch ritual gaming

[little shadow]

many thanks bud for info

[waxen nymph]

Just realised this after Dread's last video

I really hope FG get smth similar

Otherwise Bleed build are already better on Paladin (for the most part) and now Ignite too 😢

[junior wren]

rework says Paladins are the masters of DoTs then

[waxen nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/rainbow-yeet-gif-14521966

[alpine canopy]

Time rot tho

[alpine canopy]

tbf, the 50% more thing was always pally specific since it's on holy aura activation

I too hope they dunk pally's bleed support into FG because bleed just doesn't feel super paladinny to me

[little temple]

Man it would be kinda sad if the forge guy would be bad at setting things on fire

Its his literal job

[fluid sparrow]

True

[crude dune]

"forge" have 3 steps :: make it melt, beat the s out of it, cold it, profit?

[little temple]

I would love a combo skill like that

first attack ignites, second one applies armor debuff and third hit consumes ignites and armor debuffs for a big cold damage hit

[waxen nymph]

Yeah but you cool stuff with room temperature liquids

Not really cold dmg imo

[waxen nymph]

True, didnt realise that too / didnt read it properly

[crude dune]

Burn things => attack put a Mark on mob, depending on bruning stacks, then make a "Breath of water" scaling with marks

Add some blindy particles and the sound of "poe freeze shatter"

[alpine canopy]

And depending on your goal, you might even cool it down in an oven lol

[crude dune]

And depending on your marks, it will "craft" the monster and add it as your minion !!!!

[winged pulsar]

Forge Guards wear glasses tho. 🥸

[crude dune]

Sure make an Unique helmet to "craft" your minions :

[cerulean dome]

AIGHT BOIS IM BACK . what we doing for new season? any crazy meta builds?

any theorycrafters i can follow on youtube?

[woven temple]

for new season we are waiting for patch notes

and so do the theorycrafters

[cerulean dome]

season was supposed to launch already and patch notes aren't out yet?

WHAT'S NEXT

[crude dune]

11th infos patch note 17th make the server burn

[cerulean dome]

patch notes on the 11th? gotcha

I WILL RETURN

[turbid dome]

[waxen nymph]

#news message
Crazy what we can find in the #news channel

[alpine canopy]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message
Confirmation that symbols of hope and judgment are getting electrify support? 👀

[little temple]

Warpath can be considered holy too, right? Right???

[waxen nymph]

You would want Healing Hand anyway imo

And since Warpath only procc HH once

[gusty abyss]

unless...

[waxen nymph]

Don't see that happening as well

They deliberately put it like this

[winter copper]

imo they should cap the procs, cap eye of reen make it work for anything

[gusty abyss]

Yeah, that a good use of the x per y seconds mechanic

[polar spire]

thats when you spam tap warpath

all i want is for shield rush to be fixed

so i can go back to spam tapping it without desyncing

shield rush + hh

this + spam shield rush tapping + hh = immortal

but noooo we cant have that cause desync

[winged pulsar]

If you arent permanently spinning are you still permanently winning?

[waxen nymph]

Shield Rush loose the Traversal Tag

[inland quarry]

yea lol shield rush spamming can't gain ward anymore, always expected them to tone it down. but still sucks because stuck bug.

[noble zenith]

i really hope sigils get electrify damage too

[alpine canopy]

No, its fire vfx is red instead of yellow

[winged pulsar]

Slap on a lightning tag and now it’s yellow. 😎

[alpine canopy]

It sure seems like it might based on Mike's comment 🤞

[alpine canopy]

Normal lightning is blue, so it has a different regular vs. holy version just like fire

[winged pulsar]

Blue sounds even better tbh

[woven temple]

tbh 5 years later I still have no clue why the lightning of a Lagon themed paladin that supposedly comes from Lagon is suddenly yellow

we literally have no other example of yellow lightning in game, but at least rahyeh's paladins do use yellowish fire

not to mention that we never see a single paladin of lagon either

and that lagon is the kind of god who doesn't give a shit about anything except torturing people for fun

oooh look how funny these humans drown

me bored gonna set up a whole arena where I probe people with my tentacles

[alpine canopy]

Yellow lightning = holy lightning, yeah there are no actual Lagon theme paladins aside from it just being alluded to in one skill node

[woven temple]

that one skill node is like half of all lightning effects on paladin though

[alpine canopy]

It's probably the most uneventful one of all of them

well, not entirely, but still

sentinel is still not really following any god in particular, even as a fire pally

[turbid dome]

Less for fun and more he doesn’t really give a shit about the opinions of ants

[woven temple]

bold strategy captn for somebody who got rekt by ants in every timeline (that we know of)

[woven temple]

yeah no shit he isn't, he is a deserter, I'm still lost as to why he can be a paladin in the first place

must be the pernicious ideas borrowed from dnd 5 ed

[alpine canopy]

yeah idk why either, but magic in this game doesn't really come from the gods anyway

[woven temple]

eh that's still somewhat dubious, given things like runemaster runes et al, but paladin of all classes should depict magic channeled through the gods or at least with their direct guidance

when you start getting such "brilliant" ideas as just going out and grabbing the magic for yourself, that's how you end up with the void and immortal empire

[alpine canopy]

Mage's power is even less god-related

[woven temple]

is it though? There is no concrete lore that would disprove it, although same goes for proving it too

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, absolutely

[woven temple]

we know nothing about the gods' origins and little about their powers

so it's just all headcanon at this point

[alpine canopy]

We literally have had the loremaster explain it

but also there's the most likely reason for it being the way it is, and that is that if your character's power comes by channeling through a god, you'd have to explain why your character doesn't lose all their power when the god is dead (or when you go back to before they existed)

[turbid dome]

Hey I’m not the divine toddler

Tho the rune master stuff to me is just named after them, not from them

Also also we literally steal the knowledge of how to be a Paladin from a different timeline version of us

So like they coulda been a paladin of a specific god

[woven temple]

plenty of ways to go about this, but not with LE's narrative budget

I'm sure we'll never see any deeper exploration of class lore or each of the character's backstories

[turbid dome]

I could see some expansion of it

[alpine canopy]

They have said they want to expand them, or at least re-integrate their backstories in some way since the intro videos are gone now

but it is difficult, that is true

[woven temple]

they said a lot of things that are nowhere to be found in their game, and are apparently not coming any time soon

[alpine canopy]

yeah, I wouldn't expect it to get in the game soon, if at all

[turbid dome]

I could see like 2 zones being added to campaign start that’s different for each class

[woven temple]

and by narrative budget I mean not only the monetary budget of the studio but also the way in which the game is generally structured, with very little meaningful dialogues or quest texts or even ambient exploration of lore

[turbid dome]

Sentinel deserting, rogue fleeing mejesa, etc.

[woven temple]

there just isn't any place to put these into the game without massively reworking the structure of the campaign

[alpine canopy]

when they redid chapter 1, they mentioned maybe making a mission to unlock the mastery class based on their backstory, but they didn't want to extend the time it took to get mastery any farther out

idk how they could possibly fit it in, and spending effort on things just for one class is not ideal

[woven temple]

yeah and where will they put that mission? They'll need to develop areas, NPCs, quests, etc from scratch, there isn't any space reserved for that purpose in the campaign's current structure

[alpine canopy]

it would've been a portal from Gaspar or FK

like the old mastery "mission"

[turbid dome]

I kinda miss the shade fight pit

[woven temple]

I guess that's the most obvious point but the problems above still apply, they'd need to develop unique quests for all classes from the ground up, and they don't seem to be able to do that

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, well the main reason they decided against it was they just didn't want to increase the time until you unlock mastery any more

but not having to spend the time doing all that is a definite plus

[alpine canopy]

I too wish it was something a little more exciting

it feels wrong to be just talk to Gaspar

though I guess it's kinda killing Pannion that gets you it

[woven temple]

the just talk to gaspar is supposed to be a placeholder, but that's my point exactly - it's been in this state for what, 1.5 years now, and will remain in this state for 1.5 more

they are in no hurry to fix it despite it being a fairly glaring omission for any kind of a new player

[alpine canopy]

idk if it really is a placeholder at this point

[woven temple]

as they say in these parts, nothing is more permanent than the temporary

[noble zenith]

Yeah, cant wait too see all the changes honestly !

If symbols also apply to electrify, that will be insane with javelin

[slim spire]

Any tips on building forge weapons from scratch?

[waxen nymph]

A good start is Bardiche and use Void Cleave, and try to scale mainly dot first

[slim spire]

Thanks. Void Cleave for the buff right? What skill to summon the weapons?

1 thing I'm having a hard time adjusting from other games is how punished you are trying to respec early game. The minimum points are just too little, and I feel like I'm playing catchup all game long

Like I'm using Rive initially, but then from further testing Warpath feels a lot better. But the amount of points difference are huge between those 2

[junior wren]

Multistrike with Heated Forge for sure

as for early game leveling, you can level with Multistrike + Forged Strike just fine

Warpath until you unlock mastery

[waxen nymph]

I like Multistrike better too for Forged Weapons

Faster summoning

You get to use HH

So you get really nice sustain

Warpath is pretty meh imo

[slim spire]

Sorry what's HH?

[inland quarry]

healing hands

but yea finally a forged weapons build that actually doesn't make you throw away healing

[waxen nymph]

Healing Hands yeah

Heals you plus heals over time

Can be used as traversal

[slim spire]

I still don't understand unfortunately. Why HH can be used only with Multistrike? Or because Warpath is a channeling spell, so cannot use non-instants?

[inland quarry]

warpath is channeling, so hh will only work the first time you hit warpath, but not again while channeling

[waxen nymph]

Healing Hands proccs on melee hit node says
When you USE a Melee Attack and hit at least one enemy
Channeling Warpath count as one use

[slim spire]

ah ok, that's the part I'm missing

that's pretty cool then

why not rive tho?

too unreliable?

[inland quarry]

yea

[slim spire]

Great thanks

Going to respec my rive then

It's my highest skill atm

[inland quarry]

well, mutlstrike won't get forged weapons summon until season 2

[slim spire]

Huh? It's already there tho?

[inland quarry]

oh is it?

there was a buff to it or something i remember

in s2

or maybe that was rive lol

[slim spire]

sorry, is this a S2 thing? Where multistrike's interaction get buffed even more?

[junior wren]

• Multistrike gives you a buff called "Armaments" every time you hit an enemy. It's a basic Multistrike mechanic. You can have up to 4 Armament stacks.
• Heated Forge makes it so your Forged Strike consumes Armaments to guaranteed summon Forged Weapons, 1 per Armament stack.
  This works WITHOUT a target.
  So you charge into monsters, bonk them 4 times, then use Forge Strike (even if the monsters already died) and you summon 4 Forged Weapons.

[waxen nymph]

Multistrike is getting buff in S2, but the buff has nothing to do with Forged Weapons

[slim spire]

thanks for the detailed explanations. I understood the basics, but those special interactions (no need target etc) is really valuable to know. So the chance to generate forged weapon at max stack is a waste then?

[slim spire]

Noted, thanks

[junior wren]

yes it's a waste

plus it has the unfortunate effect of resummoning minions when you're at maximum

[waxen nymph]

It's a good and a bad thing

Imo

[junior wren]

Generally you will want to be attacking a boss with your minions, so you're using Multistrike to add DPS + proccing HH to heal yourself, so you would be at max Armaments, randomly summoning new forged weapon minions during the fight.

So why is that bad?
Well if you're using the Void Cleave buff, a newly summoned minion won't have the buff, resulting in DPS loss. There are some other minor losses like the summoning animation that happens, perhaps travel time if the summon isn't summoned in the right place.

If your minions are dying, you would resummon them by doing the 4 hits then Forge combo anyway. You have control over the summoning vs. it happening randomly, and the effect is the same - 1 minion per Armament stack. I don't see any good reason to use that Forgemastery passive.

[slim spire]

Yeah that's a great observation, I fully agree

Btw is there a definitive list of what exactly your forged weapon inherit?

And don't inherit?

Like is fire damage on your weapon totally equivalent to fire damage on your minion?

[waxen nymph]

It can be nice if you are in monos and your FW are stranded on some other mobs

[waxen nymph]

There is no list but "simple" affixes

Like AS, Inc Dmg, Ailment Chance, Crit stuff etc

Stuff that doesn't work are Uniques effect like chance to cast XXX skill on Hit

[rancid verge]

So, new player, wanted to ask
Is a Ranged sentinel build, possibly based on Javelin or something like that doable or is it a fool's errand?

[waxen nymph]

Hammer Throw is really good (ailment spell or Void Dot)

Javelin I, would wait S2

Shield Throw aswell

[rancid verge]

Ahh, is it getting patched soonish?

[waxen nymph]

Sentinel is getting a big face-lift in 12 days

With S2

[rancid verge]

Got it
I
Might just wait until then

[junior wren]

you can play Javelin Siege Barrage right now

when S2 drops you'll get buffs - less mana cost and more javelins

[waxen nymph]

And split too

[junior wren]

what split

[slim spire]

Ok good to know, thanks a lot. A follow up question if you don't mind, in Forged Strike tree there is a "essential" node changing your Forged Weapon into Fire. What is the significance of this actually?

[waxen nymph]

Sierpin Fractal or Divine Fury

[junior wren]

is Sierpin confirmed to work?

[waxen nymph]

Yes

[junior wren]

oh nice

[waxen nymph]

You mean this one?

[waxen nymph]

It's actually my starter plan

Also we saw in frame by frame during Karv showcase, Added Dmg Effectiveness of Javelin is buffed

[slim spire]

Yes. What does the fire tag do?

[waxen nymph]

The Tag on a skill convert un-typed Flat Dmg to the type

So like this

[junior wren]

basically it makes your minions do half physical and half fire damage

with fire being the bigger half thanks to the +10 per point on the node 😄

it's also important for your affixes. For example, if your minions somehow obtained % increased fire damage (from your weapon for example), and you didn't have that node taken, it would have no effect, because your minions don't have the fire tag.

[junior wren]

Found a usecase. It's good if you play the "Forged Weapons Detonate" node 😄

[waxen nymph]

True

[slim spire]

Ok good to know, thanks a lot guys

[slim spire]

Is this a trap node btw?

[junior wren]

absolutely 😄

[waxen nymph]

Nah its good

https://tenor.com/view/crying-happy-but-sad-face-gif-19422780

[slim spire]

I've tested multistrike a bit, and uptime seems acceptable?

I may have underestimated -75% ofc

[junior wren]

once you get the duration bonuses in forge strike and passive tree and two phantom grip rings, it'll feel way better

[slim spire]

Oh so it is good

Not a trap node

[waxen nymph]

The explosion is a trap ^^

[junior wren]

well, it is a trap node, because adding duration means the explosion happens less often, and the explosion is a spell for which FGs usually don't build stats

[waxen nymph]

It gives you more dmg overall if you can sustain the weapons

[junior wren]

and that's the big IF 😄

[waxen nymph]

Should be fine against bosses but in echoes its going to be annoying for sure

[junior wren]

that's how I see it too

[slim spire]

Ya I'm thinking on the "more dmg" part

[waxen nymph]

But yeah the explosion part is quite bad

We got the Duration problem mention by Psojed

And you need to give them Flat Spell Dmg and Crit Chance

Thats pretty annoying

[junior wren]

the more dmg is nice, but the usual Forged Weapons cap is 12 minions. Normal duration is 20, maximum duration is 50, that node removes 75% of duration, so you must be able to resummon your 12 minions every 12 seconds.

Less if your rings aren't perfectly rolled

[slim spire]

Ok 1 stupid question coming

Are forged weapons immortal?

[junior wren]

nope

[slim spire]

Interesting. So they die regularly at higher corrupts?

[waxen nymph]

No, thats smth only Falcon is allow to have somehow (still salty about it)

[waxen nymph]

They are on the fragile side of Minions, but are easy enough to resummon

[junior wren]

They don't die, not even on the pinnacle boss 😛 you can give them leech or regen, or just scale their HP really high. But they start at 350 HP.

[slim spire]

Ohh leech is a good idea

Is permastun a thing?

[junior wren]

nop

[waxen nymph]

You just need to get leech on your weapon or gloves

[slim spire]

Rip

[alpine canopy]

I'm pretty sure added melee damage stays 100% phys, it doesn't mention any conversion

[waxen nymph]

But you get the Tag and Base Fire Dmg

[slim spire]

So how do you solve mana issues in this game really? You don't have a mana potion right

[alpine canopy]

We could test it to be sure, but usually it has to explicitly convert to change the split for added damage

Testing will be significantly easier in S2, too

[covert phoenix]

use a skill to generate mana

every class has one

[slim spire]

Hmm. Possible to solve it with gear in endgame?

[covert phoenix]

(that is, if you are spending large amount of mana, otherwise you can get by just with mana regen)

[slim spire]

I guess it's a balancing stick

[alpine canopy]

Sentinel has an easy one in its base passive tree, works for multistrike

Should be about all you need, probably

[crude dune]

Some builds can substain, VoidKNight got this :

[slim spire]

Oh ya that one

[crude dune]

it's still very specific and need to have "a lot" of mana to make it work

[waxen nymph]

Time and Faith
Plus a bit of mana regen if needed

[crude dune]

5 pts max*

[slim spire]

LOL I thought time and faith in the literal meaning

[brave mulch]

Can anyone share a facetanking build? I'm pretty new to the game and I like tanky builds

[crude dune]

I don't think "facetanking" is a thing in LE, specially for Sentinel _ Some face tanking existed before, in stacking "infinite" Ward (was fiwed)

[brave mulch]

Hmm

[waxen nymph]

Shield Bash can be really tanky quickly

[crude dune]

You'll have to "dodge" very big hit (well telegraphed)

[waxen nymph]

Dmg is on the low side

[crude dune]

is the substain correct ? (leech / ward ?)

[waxen nymph]

Leech is super strong sustain

[brave mulch]

I suppose Sentinel is the tankier class?

Or maybe primalist?

[waxen nymph]

It also has Heal

[waxen nymph]

Primalist, Warlock, Sorc

[crude dune]

People would sage mage? Note that the new patch 17th will change a LOT of things

We can "suppose", with the change in Life / Endu Treshold, that life Sentinel + block will be very tanky for sure

My "facetanking" build is Lich Crit Stygian Drain Life Mini-gun, but it's on the weird side (Reaper Form is special)

[turbid dome]

Love reaper form

[woven temple]

you can build a tanky build on sentinel but it's gonna be the outlier, i.e. the consecrated ground judgment is fairly tanky

but it uses vengeance in rotation which almost no other sent build does

and without it your survivability is giga shit

[crude dune]

Vengeance feels so bad (cause i want to use it), specially if mandatory like you says. no range, great defensive buff, if you pick "ennemy have dodge chance you'r doomed :v"

[brave mulch]

Is that healing hands build good?

with rive

thinking about doing that or just going void knight

[turbid dome]

if your gonna be doing a melee smack rive build healing hands on melee hit is a great way to boost your not die

vk passive tree leech + healing hands + time and faith will cover like all of your sustain issues

[woven temple]

it's a mana regen skill that is, ironically, about on par with mana strike in terms of mana regen over time

except that it does a dozen of other things too

mana strike is so dog shit

[mild stump]

So looking at VK Warpath builds, why do none get the Abyssal Tempest node at the end of the void sub-tree? Is Abyssal Echoes that bad?

[waxen nymph]

Its a lot of Mana for not a lot of Melee Benefit

[crude dune]

i like both skills ><" i really like the "tanky buff" of Vengeance, but i don't "feel" playing it (maybe need more investing) - i like mana strike because Spellblade Shatter strike all your mana => 3 mana strike hit and you're good to go again

[brave mulch]

Idk if I should go paladin or void knight

[turbid dome]

vk gang vk gang

[junior wren]

here you go
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/QnE78b8A
healing hands to move around, smite for DPS, high armor, high block, smite heals you if you stay close to target, HH generates Ward. It's around 1000% lightning damage so should be fairly balanced.

[crude matrix]

Paladin, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.7

Class:

Sentinel (20) / Void Knight (11) / Forge Guard (24) / Paladin (58)

General:

▸ Health: 3,381, Regen: 176/s
▸ Mana: 366.43, Regen: 10.72/s
▸ Ward Retention: 4%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 25 Str / 1 Dex / 1 Int / 60 Att / 14 Vit
▸ Resistances: 134% / 80% / 110% / 80% / 80% / 84% / 88%
▸ EHP: 25,567 / 25,567 / 25,567 / 49,085 / 25,567 / 25,567 / 25,567

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 67%, Threshold: 676
▸ Armor Mitigation: 75% (8,681)
▸ Block Chance: 85%, Mitigation: 70% (4,872)

Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Lightning / Spell

Buffs:

▸ Holy Aura (Passive)

Used skills:

• Holy Aura (21)
• Healing Hands (23)
• Sigils Of Hope (21)
• Smite (21)

Used unique items:

• Devotion
• Code of an Erased Sentinel

[junior wren]

sigils on self-cast, gameplay is .. cast sigils until you go low mana, then go kill with smite

[turbid dome]

yay smite

[junior wren]

when new patch drops you can grab the new cosmetic for it 😄

[crude dune]

Thanks for recommend the build ! will look at it

[urban phoenix]

PoE 2 experiment over, back to last epoch theorycrafting.

[slim spire]

welcome

[urban phoenix]

👋

[slim spire]

I'm trying my best to break animate weapons next patch, having giant's blood would make it so much easier

[urban phoenix]

Yeah for sure.

[south zephyr]

Set shards too potentially, depends on what the sun forged shards do besides the set bonus

[slim spire]

Oh is sun forged a new set for forged guard?

[south zephyr]

No a quite old one actually, it buffs both the weapons and the player quite substantially, but it wasn't quite competitive against legendaries/top tier exalts

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/itemsets/SAzAsQ

There's probably some very funny, very stupid things you could do with ignite stacking on forge strike if it carries over the bonuses per weapon on the shard

Assuming you keep the ignite % chance per weapon via shard it's like 600% ignite chance with max weapons summoned

Also like 600% increased damage over time from forge strikes ignite... Hmmmmm

[slim spire]

ohhh very nice

ignite's damage is not based on your weapon damage right?

ya just checked the game guide, it's fixed

[south zephyr]

Correct, ailments have static base damage

Only affected by gear multipliers not the hit damage

Personally I think I'll probably build out a Void Knight and either do a smite on hit build or maybe something with Time Rot depending on how it works with the new patch

The Forgotten knight set giving you an easy 75% Void penetration with time rot might be busted

Since you can slap it onto whatever exalted

If Time Rot itself is scaleable to useful levels you'll have a relatively easy to access 75% More damage multiplier

That, Sun forged, and Ferebors are probably the 3 most interesting sets for the new set crafting mechanic

[turbid dome]

time rot with knight set is what I'm planning on starting

[slim spire]

sorry, I'm kinda new to sentinels, so what you're saying just mostly went over my head, but I appreciate the discussion

still, I would like to pick your brains a bit on forged weapons

1. what is the best generator in your opinion?

2. sigil or void cleave?

3. bis weapon?

[south zephyr]

Rive+Forge strike was my go to, warpath is too slow generally and Rive gave you easy execute access. I believe Vengeance is getting a node that may be the best new option

[south zephyr]

Void Cleave if you are good at Micro was almost certainly better for damage, Sigil had better utility but either ate a ring slot or sucked to upkeep

[turbid dome]

in terms of weapons theres a lot of choices but for example a void knight will mostly always love apathy's maw

weapon choice is more build dependent

[slim spire]

I mean for a forged weapons build really

there are so many choices

[turbid dome]

hit? dot?

[slim spire]

interesting, I've been testing multistrike and it feels so much better than rive

I really need to test warpath at higher levels tho, being able to weave in and weave out easily mean you can avoid most bad stuff

[slim spire]

I dunno, what's the best? LOL like I said I'm super new to this

[turbid dome]

fair enough

is this your first arpg?

[slim spire]

nope I'm coming from poe

[turbid dome]

ah

[spring pollen]

Multi strike to built armament stacks then forge strike I found to be easiest way to summon max forge weapons

[slim spire]

and d2 d3 d4, you know the usual

[south zephyr]

Yeah, I'm probably overrating Rives pull+execute tbh

[slim spire]

ya same here, but it still feel slow tho since you can't prep them

unlike warpath

idk

[south zephyr]

For your weapon I honestly don't know enough about weapon inheritance to be sure, but a well rolled legendary Apathys Maw is probably pretty darn good especially if it inherits the more damage components

[turbid dome]

in terms of weapon, its really just biggest damage for hit and the corrected damage + application chance for dot

[slim spire]

also would love to know what a bis gloves look like, since the bis rings specifically point to them

[south zephyr]

Attack speed+Leech

[turbid dome]

also 150% aliment chance = 1 stack and a 50% chance for another stack per hit

[slim spire]

what's doom? not in the game guide

[south zephyr]

Item only Void DoT

[turbid dome]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/ailments/doom

[slim spire]

oh that's nice

[turbid dome]

^ use last epoch tools

[spring pollen]

Warpath is an option but I find that if your summons get wiped from a boss mechanic that they take forever to build up again. This was a long time ago played that tho

[slim spire]

that's fair

I'm still levelling atm so my forged weapons are pretty much immortal

but I can imagine them dying at higher levels pretty easily

[south zephyr]

Yeah Leech helps a tooooon with that IME

[turbid dome]

if they get one tapped, attunement gives them +11 health and some increased dmg

[south zephyr]

Probably won't save them at 1k corruption, but I'm not sure there's many viable minion builds that far out

[turbid dome]

other than wraithlord or abomination yea

[south zephyr]

Manifest Armor might be interesting with the 2h + shield/shield throw node

[turbid dome]

true

[south zephyr]

Just don't forget to name your Forge Guard TonySpark

[slim spire]

oh ya regarding manifest armor

are they just super slow?

at dealing damage

[turbid dome]

did you grab the sword node

[slim spire]

of course

[turbid dome]

so they get a copy of your weapon

[slim spire]

that's the first one

[turbid dome]

🤔

they should be pretty good

[slim spire]

huh

really

I may respec the void cleave then

and get the manifest to try again

what else is good other than the weapon?

[turbid dome]

getting them your glove stats is good cause the same reason as forged weapons

[south zephyr]

Basically all the inherit gear stats nodes should be maxed

[slim spire]

I see

ok got it bye2 void cleave, such a pita to use anyway

[turbid dome]

basically cover MA in stats -> he goes smack stuff

since both of you want the same stats -> you smack stuff too

[slim spire]

makes perfec sense

ah I just remember why warpath is worse than multistrike

no healing hands

I guess leech would be good enough? idk

[turbid dome]

leech is shrimply, not enough sustain? do more damage

[slim spire]

ok noted, so best 3 skills? assuming 1 forged, 1 generator

[turbid dome]

currently?

Volitate Reversal is always good for the stupid amount of more damage it gives

VR is getting completely reworked next update

[slim spire]

my personal hope is they don't overthink the update and nerf stuff hugely in advance

I mean the set thing is surely a powercreep

but maybe it's OK to have a bit OP stuff in an ARPG

[alpine canopy]

Idol crafting is another power creep, potentially more than the set affixes and champ affixes

since it's just pure new stats we didn't have before, sets and champ affixes compete with legendaries

[little temple]

I really hope we get some new filter options for idols. Im so sick of getting idol explosions with only bad rolls

[waxen nymph]

https://youtu.be/JwFHzzz6zBE?si=CMcUyQp3MnsJJbPS&t=3287

[slim spire]

anyone got general tips on building a forged weapons build? from my limited testing it seems like you don't have access to lots of +minion stuff due to them being mostly acolyte exclusive, and you don't actually need them. You just need to build like a warrior, with a high focus on +damage

[junior wren]

from passives you have attack speed, armor shred, flat damage, minion duration, bleed and ignite chance, % inc damage, minion health and armor and potion heals minions for your armor number

you can grab minion damage on gear

[waxen nymph]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BaKGn0YA

[crude matrix]

Forge Guard, Level 100

Game Cycle / Version:

Harbingers of Ruin / 1.1.7

Class:

Sentinel (22) / Void Knight (10) / Forge Guard (73) / Paladin (8)

General:

▸ Health: 1,326, Regen: 36/s
▸ Mana: 163.78, Regen: 8/s
▸ Ward Retention: 12%, Regen: 0/s
▸ Attributes: 29 Str / 3 Dex / 3 Int / 27 Att / 4 Vit
▸ Resistances: 79% / 24% / 24% / 75% / 60% / 4% / 4%
▸ EHP: 1,901 / 1,259 / 1,259 / 1,990 / 1,653 / 1,112 / 1,112

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 30%, Threshold: 265
▸ Dodge Chance: 6% (180)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 14% (394)
▸ Block Chance: 3%, Mitigation: 0% (0)

Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Physical / Melee, Spell

Minion Damage Types:

▸ Fire, Physical / Melee

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Void Cleave (20)
• Forge Strike (22)
• Healing Hands (20)
• Multistrike (20)

Used unique items:

• Phantom Grip
• Wing Guards

[waxen nymph]

I feel like DoT FW is easier to set up

I have on purpose not set up the last skill

Because RN you would use VR

Like this

But next patch its going away

[junior wren]

and for more tips and choices you can explore the many builds on the internet. For example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g1bJ7PYz_0

[waxen nymph]

I hope we get new FW related stuff on Idols

[slim spire]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll study up then. Really enjoying this community ❤️

[junior wren]

I checked LETools and none of the "forged weapons" builds have dots in their name, it might be an off-meta spec 😛

[waxen nymph]

I just find it really easy to set up

[junior wren]

Smelter's Might and a 2-hander

but how do you scale damage though. penetration?

[past nest]

Void cleave has lots of flat damage to minions

[waxen nymph]

Are we still talking about Forged Weapons ?

[junior wren]

yeah

[waxen nymph]

Oh sorry ! I got confused
Smelter Might > Smelter Wrath in my head

So I was wondering why you would use Smelter Wrath 😂

Generic Minion Dmg, AS, Chance to inflit ailment

Rn its getting carried hard by VR

I did that and was doing 200 easy

I wonder how its going to be after the new VR 💀

[slim spire]

best first use of rune of ascendance?

I'm level 54

well the first uses, I've gathered quite a sum

[waxen nymph]

Depend on what you play

For FW Id say Ring for Phantom Grip or Gloves for Falcon Fist or Wing Guard

[slim spire]

ilvl totally doesn't matter right with ascendance?

I still frustratingly don't have access to bazaar yet unfortunately, or I would have checked the price of phantom grip

[waxen nymph]

ilvl doesn't matter

Base doesn't matter

[slim spire]

goddamn got it on the 5th try, holy shit

[junior wren]

you can ask someone online for a party invite and then teleport to Bazaar early. You can look at prices, but still need to get rank 3 to buy uniques though

[slim spire]

Fair enough. When I really look at the ring, it's not really as strong as I've originally imagined it. Sure +skills are nice, but you only have a few minion skills, and even in those, the available points are more than enough to get everything

Since not all forged strike nodes are usable when you have a proper generator

[junior wren]

the rings are not used for their skill bonus, but for applying stats from your gloves to your minions

[waxen nymph]

Also Minions Duration

[junior wren]

I was doing some math for forged weapons, it seems T20 (rare) Obsidian Axe with speed, flat physical, minion damage and physical penetration beats Apathy's Maw.

[waxen nymph]

Oo
I am surprised, but at the same time not so much

Try an Odachi

That Crit Multi is juicy

Attack Speed is quite fast too

[junior wren]

I'm in bazaar rn checking the exalted swords 😄

[spring pollen]

The affix that gives phys pen and minion phys pen is good for forge weapons because you give them the stat and then they inherit themselves again

[junior wren]

I have very little minion crit so the 170% crit multi has little effect

but I found a better odachi

oh but I keep forgetting the phantom grip bug

so I guess Odachi crit multi is way better than my excel shows 😄

[waxen nymph]

💀

You can't factor in the bug

Pretty sure it was announced to be fixed for 1.2

[junior wren]

yeah but I'm live now, so y'know 😄

[waxen nymph]

What if you go Flat Crit + AS or Flat Phys on the Odachi?

Do the Fire Crit Amulet works with FW?

[junior wren]

yes, it has minion crit

and the best weapon changes depending on your other stats

rn my FG is lvl 69 (nice), has 0 minion damage 😄

so weapons that have increased damage beat weapons with anything else

I have this rn

it's not even maxed out yet, because next craft requires lvl 70 😄 and it beats odachi with crit+speed and odachi with crit+flat phys

[slim spire]

Guys will the Singularity turn off FW's crit?

[slim spire]

Hot damn is this from cof?

If not how much did you buy it for?

[junior wren]

this is MG, I just bought it on Bazaar, for like 10k gold

[slim spire]

Niiice

[junior wren]

good question, I just checked - singulary does NOT disable FW crits

[slim spire]

Awesome

[waxen nymph]

Yeah Singularity just disable your Crit

[slim spire]

Btw fw doesn't trigger your onkill effects right?

[waxen nymph]

No

They are not you

[spring pollen]

Is shield bounce to proc manifest armor still a thing? Or did that build get nerfed?

[waxen nymph]

Still really strong

[spring pollen]

Ok nice. Making a list of builds to try out again after the new patch

[junior wren]

I was just blessed by an explosion of lizards

[cyan swallow]

Anyone know where I can find a picture of the vengeance node that was spoiled for season 2 that ||summons forged weapons||?

[waxen nymph]

https://youtu.be/JwFHzzz6zBE?si=CMcUyQp3MnsJJbPS&t=3287

Its timestamped where it starts to be about sentinel

[cyan swallow]

Thank you! Couldn't remember where I saw it and was struggling to find it again

[glad path]

I cant wait to see what the downside to the Forge guard two-handed weapon in 1 hand is gonna be

I'm so curious

And I can't wait for the patch notes so I can start thinking about what I wanna build. Definitely playing Sentinel first

[waxen nymph]

We know

20% Less Dmg and Less AS/Cast Speed for you and your minions
Haste gives Block Chance instead of MS (doesnt scale with Haste Effect)

[tropic grotto]

I wonder if this is capped at 100% block chance or if you should just try to get as much block as possible

[covert phoenix]

outside the fact block is fairly hard to get and you won't get a lot above 100%, the damage multiplier is not big enough to warrant that

[tropic grotto]

Well its probably at least a 1 to 1 more modifier depending on the roll. Also it doesn't seem unreasonable to get around 160% block chance between this items passive, a shield with block chance, the new haste to block node, ect. That seems worth it to me

[covert phoenix]

Do you think investing into 60% additional block chance for 28% more damage on vengeance (of all the skills to do damage with) is worth it? I don't

[tropic grotto]

It'd be more like 55%-80% more depending on what item ranges this thing has

[covert phoenix]

assuming 9%, it's 28% more damage

assuming something like 12%, it would be 32%

assuming 20% more damage per 10% block (lol), it would be 40%, at no point it's going to be 80%

[tropic grotto]

What do you mean 28? 9% per 10 chance (with current roll). so it would be 18% at 20 chance. 27% at 30 chance. 36% at 40 chance. 45% at 50 chance. 54% at 60 chance. Surely that's how it works no?

[glad path]

aahhh alright, must've missed that then. Ty :))

[violet cipher]

hey guys i saw some time ago some new stuff coming to sentinel where the slow chance and time rot chance gave damage to some skill i cant remember what it was , imgoing crazy searching for it can someone enlighten me? i dont remember if it was a new item or a node in sentinel

[waxen nymph]

Check the pinned messages

It was showed during Ghazzy podcast

Link in the pinned message

But before the timestamp

[violet cipher]

oh found it thank you so much

[crude dune]

What Pvt. Vlad think about Sentinel players ?

(this message can contain out of context photoshoped quote)

[waxen nymph]

🔨🔨🔨

[crude dune]

Bleed Hammerdin ?

[waxen nymph]

Ban hammerdin

[clever hazel]

sounds OP

100% chance to ban on hit

[alpine canopy]

We don't know for sure yet. Block chance does not have a cap, but all currently existing effects that scale off your block chance are capped at 100% block.

I'd guess it caps out at 100% block chance just because that's the norm so far

[iron basin]

isn't vengeance getting a full rework with this patch? I remember one of the dev interviews they said that there's possibilities for using it as a primary damage skill now

[covert phoenix]

yeah, I wouldn't bet on that lmao

[covert phoenix]

isn't serpent venom scaled by crit over 100%?

I saw multiple builds going for 150% crit chance or things like that

[alpine canopy]

Yes

[covert phoenix]

weird double standard then

[alpine canopy]

Yeah, block is the only thing with no cap that has all things scaling off it capped like that

at least, as far as I know

and relatively few stats have caps

[turbid dome]

we should uncap parry

[alpine canopy]

A finger on the monkey's paw curls. No more sources of parry ever get added to the game.

[waxen nymph]

@raven wolf

What flavor ?

Of Warpath ?

[raven wolf]

i did bleed nad ignite already

both were not very great

so anything that can kill uberabby

[waxen nymph]

Oo

Warpath Spell Smite is really strong

[crude dune]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_O7kbgS8MI

[raven wolf]

as is smite main source of dmg?

[waxen nymph]

VK Void Melee with Warrior Fury

[raven wolf]

i used it as cleanse

[crude dune]

this flavor if possible thank you :x

[raven wolf]

looks good

[crude dune]

but you need to loot extra rare items on aberroth i think :v

[raven wolf]

except volatile reversal is 100% gone next patch

[crude dune]

Vlad's tips are the best (for Sentinel at least)

[waxen nymph]

That one would be VK Warrior Fury

Deals a lot of Dmg

[waxen nymph]

Yes

Smite Deals a lot of Dmg

If you search in the channel Skyqula posted a planner recently enough of a very finalised version

But yeah for S2, VR is getting changed

So we dont really know

[raven wolf]

found it

fake warpath but should do probably

my next variant was smite maincast anyway

[crude dune]

found it too / weird unique everywhere / new concept => added to "to do list"

i did this build lvl 8 --> 42 cause i found the sword early ;o

"no brain spin to smite", loved it

[honest python]

Did they do that Sentinel rework yet? or is tha tnext patch

I last remember Forgeguy being absolute dog shit. Is he great now?

[clever hazel]

Forge Guard got a bunch of changes in July 2024: https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-harbingers-of-ruin-patch-notes/71790
Sentinel is being reworked pretty significantly in ~11 days with season 2

[honest python]

nice

[woven temple]

the next patch isnt live yet

been a while I know

[polar spire]

Forge guard is only dogshit when playing minions

Which, thats like half its schtick, but

Outside of the minions stuff its like the best bleeder

[slim spire]

any way of checking forged weapon's current dps?

[wooden adder]

i hope that shield throw is going to be viable in the next season, love that skill

[grand bear]

Has no cooldown by default anymore at least

[raven wolf]

it kinda does, cuz only 1 shield can exist at the time

[grand bear]

There is a node to remove that, though it does lower the bounces

[junior wren]

not dogshit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yglYAojWX4

[junior wren]

pretty sure that would be paladin

[waxen nymph]

Snapshot at its finest

[slow plaza]

I was excited for a moment until I saw the snapshotting

[junior wren]

hope it gets fixed in 1.2 and we can measure it without the bugs

[woven temple]

they already said it isn't in 1.2

[junior wren]

btw. now that I'm looking at the actual build and not just the video, he shows having 18k armor, but his planner has less than 3k armor 😄

napkin math says stealing armor via shield throw should get him up to ~7600 total armor

something's fishy

[worn garden]

It's not just that rather the armoring aegis node which gives you flat armor per ricochet multiplied by cast speed. You always been able to armor cap with this node for years, it's not new, and not a bug.

[junior wren]

the problem is, he's not ricocheting on himself

[slim spire]

So there's no way to check? Rip

[junior wren]

nope. go to champion's arena and hit the boss target dummy with forged strike, you get one weapon and you can check the numbers

[worn garden]

It doesn't matter if you Rick off you or minion

I've played this build for years

[slim spire]

Oh ya that's a good point, I forgot there's a dummy in this game

[junior wren]

okay that changes things, lemme do the napkin math again

yeah now it's 16.5k

[fair hollow]

Im stil hoping they remove that shieldthrow ma node someday and then focus on all other ma builds/archetypes

[junior wren]

it's not like you can't use MA without shield throw 🤔

[woven temple]

yea and you can also play channeled lightning blast

but you probably shouldn't

[slow plaza]

dude channeled LB still has the 50% less chance for ailments mod for some reason

my dreams of bhuldars wrath t7 armor shred frostbite sorc or runemaster is in shambles

[junior wren]

not sure what channeled LB has to do with sentinel, but let's compare them.

So LB is a single target that can be turned into chain skill or into multi-hit skill (convergence) that can double and quad cast and you can make it cast 5 times per second. Channeling LB makes it chain once in 5 hits, so it's 5 times less DPS. Channeling also removes multicast completely, making it do even less DPS so it seems like a terrible choice.

Meanwhile MA scales with your gear and gets extra dmg from armor and fits well into a Forged Weapons minion build. I don't know how about the spelldmg variant.

[woven temple]

and half of its intended functionality in spark nova just doesn't work, and hadn't worked for years

[slow plaza]

he was being sarcastic

hes saying yeah, you can play non shield throw MA

but why would you

just like how you could play channeled LB

[woven temple]

omegarip man you are sleeping on the 550% frostbite chance spear

[slow plaza]

but why would you

isnt moriditus only melee?

[woven temple]

hmmm

lol yea it's only 500% and melee only

[slow plaza]

yeah thats why we go bhuldars

also like, eq werebear is a shadow of its former self

so getting a 2 LP bhuldars does not sound hard

you get to run channeled LB + ice barrage + either channeled ele nova or volcanic orb for clear

too bad they hate it for some reason 😢

[junior wren]

for the same reason why people play minion builds when they could be playing spell spamming builds 😛

[woven temple]

At first I was like, "hate what", but then I realized that yes

this is a bingo build of the shit they hate on mage

ice barrage is like, would be a shame if you wanted to use this skill for its intended functionality instead of a 60% more damage steroid

also 4 out of 6 of its major branches are dead or close to dead

which is typical of most older skills really

[slow plaza]

I just mean channeled LB having 50% less chance to apply ailments for no reason

[woven temple]

b-b-but it hits 8 times per second!

let's conveniently ignore the part where it's easy to make it hit more frequently without channeling

and with no penalty to ailment chance

[slow plaza]

yeah I mean youd just play volcanic orb + ice barrage at that point

thats plenty of DPS etc

[woven temple]

I mean channeled lb + ice barrage is something that I'd play

[slow plaza]

yeah

[woven temple]

but does spark nova even convert to cold?