💀┃acolyte

[noble flame]

The one where Abom self-sacrifices? That's easy enough to mitigate, just cast away from the Abom (archers also reduces the risk)

[muted mist]

Rampant Coast on spellblade immediately upon reaching 300C:
many, many deaths
on cold necro (oblation but with golems instead of zombies)
first try

amazing how much better a good build feels

i don't think i even have a primordial item on the necro

[gleaming trail]

With summon skeleton and the resummon on death effects, can multiple skeletons be in the process of being resummoned at once

[obtuse quest]

Yes

[gleaming trail]

Im guessing the skeletons will all be on separate timers?

[obtuse quest]

Yup, assuming the % chance procs

[gleaming trail]

How does it work with the skeleton limit?
So lets say my cap is 4
3 die and one is being resummoned (We call this one Bob)
I cast summon skellys and 3 spawn (so now at 4 skeletons)
Another skeleton dies, if this happens before the 3 seconds has passed will Bob resummon?

Would me hitting my limit "kill" my re-summoning dudes

[obtuse quest]

Iirc it checks limits after the resummon timer hits, so if you are below your limit when Bob would respawn, he will, otherwise it's burnt.

[gleaming trail]

That brilliant, thanks for the info

Now to make this build in game and see if the mana will work
Using skeletons for mana gen

I've had my fun with witchfire but bosses are taking too long at 400c+

[sonic wind]

Rip bob

Died once, came back as skeleton. Died again. Just as hes about to come back again... nope, dead for real now.

[gleaming trail]

Bob is my strongest solider, he gives 15 mana

[sonic wind]

Bob died for our mana.

Living legend, until the living part stopped

[lost gale]

Playing offline i sometimes have the minion counter in the top left say I have like 40-50 skeletons even though they're dying as soon as I create them

[muted mist]

Anyone know of the top of their head if minions with attached dread shades are immune to Doom Brand? Or if the new Bone Golem mechanics for dying skeletons count vanguards?

[sonic wind]

Doom brand is really weird

It affects the attached minion and all minions in area

but if you take the no decay it stops affecting attached minion

still affects others

at least that is what it used to do

was a while ago I last tested it

its generally fairly good for autobomber type stuff but it tends to be really unstable

might actually have some good use case with wraithlord?

[lost gale]

apparently vanguards do count somehow but I don't think they're meant to

[wintry flame]

Hmm they did before I didn’t think they did after

The changes

[lost gale]

someone was saying they were doing it in 1.4 in this channel I think

[wintry flame]

I’ll have to retest to be sure

[muted mist]

dread shade does not render minions immune to the health drain of doom brand

i don't really understand how the drain works, it instantly obliterates bone golems

[sonic wind]

Just tested, it does

it simply applies the normal %health decay from dread shade to all minions in the aoe. The %health drain ramps

[muted mist]

that shouldn't pop the bone golem in two ticks

[sonic wind]

it's %health

it reaches 100% very fast

[muted mist]

yeah, it's bugged then

[sonic wind]

It works exactly as described

This node prevents it from draining the health of the minion it is attached to.

[muted mist]

it applies the health drain of the Dread Shaded minion, at the current %, to all other minions?

i'm not using lone watcher

i'm using poison immunity

[old hull]

Only if you take lone watcher

[old hull]

Then it should theoretically apply poisons to other minions, which wouldn't help... haven't tested that though

[muted mist]

okay so if i summon 3 skeletons and immediately dread shade all 3, with poison immunity, their health decays reasonably

if i summon a skeleton, dread shade it, wait 20s, and then summon a bone golem, the bone golem loses 90% health in a single tick, then dies next tick

so the drain from other minions is proportional the current drain the target would be experience based on duration

[sonic wind]

Yes

[muted mist]

that is... sort of convenient in that it'll pop very fast

[sonic wind]

everlasting poison only works on the attached minion. Minions in area still drain normally with doom brand

So lone watcher is most likely better option

[muted mist]

yeah, i was hoping with the poison immunity idol it would be possible to run multiple dread shaded minions that don't doom brand each other

didn't really expect it to work but would have been interesting

if that worked and vanguards counted for the bone golem melee damage node, you could run Aaron's Will with deathchill golems and juice their melee with vanguards via zombie spam.

but of course it doesn't so Aaron's Will continues to be a deeply limited item

[old hull]

Yeah, definitely a junko item, sadly

crazy considering how rare it is

[sonic wind]

it should be decent with blood golems cuz of how much damage the orb deals right?

iirc blood orb is actually comparable to abom in raw damage output so yeah idk.

[wintry flame]

I think it’s actually a really good stat stick item on Necro

Surprised more people don’t just run it in minion builds

[wintry flame]

No, sanguine orb has QoL/functionality issues

[sonic wind]

Are they not solved by just throwing more cdr at the problem?

[wintry flame]

no the Blood Golems have a particular engage range, which when they cast the orb it's either too early or far too late meaning you lose hits. They either cast at max range or right up close to packs/bosses and you lose out on like half the hits. It needs some sort of homing or a way to increase the targeting area.

[lost gale]

I'd expect bone shatter to do more damage overall than blood orb given the inconsistency

[sonic wind]

Ye they were asking about the multi golem chest tho

which ruins shatter

[lost gale]

so it does, my bad

2 golem with penance on them and you casting mshards w/ doublecast is gonna do a lot

[sonic wind]

idk maybe if you give them enough %inc aoe the orb will be decent.

[lost gale]

plus the odd rip blood for the spatter buff

[old hull]

There's also still fire aura golems, which you can still mulch skeles for, it's just not as convenient without brand

[sonic wind]

Checked tags... they forgot to give blood orb aoe tag so yeah, its ded nothing you can do.

I think only golem I'd play is melee (maybe) and shatter

was gonna try revenant but its so weird with it constantly resetting

Was looking for something to scratch my minion itch with but yeah, not much for solo minion except abom. Guess I wait for them to make the darn riftbeast amulet a perma summon

[lost gale]

Pyre is probably better than either tbf

[lost gale]

Archmage Plague!

Archmage HS can do like >200x multi, surely plague would be good

[muted mist]

Hrm, is it normal for skills which hit a limited number of targets to lack the AOE tag? Wondering if the three target limit per tick is why

[sonic wind]

Its targets within a range. Iirc there are a few invocations that work in same way and do scale with aoe. The 3x lightning I think?

i think static orb also does that and iirc alt text says something about aoe working?

yeah it does

[sonic wind]

Scaling dots with dread shade is not fun lol.

[winter wyvern]

Has anyone tried the node Incipient Decay from the Aura of Decay's tree ? I have 550 poison res in lich form and with the aura active, but I'm clearly not getting defiling nova procs every 15/(1+3.3)=3.5s. It's more like every 8 or 9s.

[sonic wind]

Just a thought, try toggling it off and back on when you enter reaper form

[obtuse quest]

That more or less lines up? 550% is about 110% more frequency. oh wait that’s one pointer, so 330%

fairenough

Would be funny if it was bugged

[peak flare]

Maybe it is bugged to count only the 1st point lmao

[obtuse quest]

Wouldn’t be that surprising, and I don’t even know how good it is other than for applying more poison that you probably don’t really require

[subtle niche]

when you've got Dark Shackles for drain life (the non-channeled version) can you put 2 circles down on the same target and drain it twice? i genuinely can't tell if it's doing extra damage or not

[sonic wind]

That would not be the first time this exact bug happened

something like the 50th time

[lost gale]

Im not sure about the spelldot version but if you use stygian coal it does fire more necrotic beams if you cast more circles

[subtle niche]

sadly i was doing teh spelldot one. trying to trick a torment build into thinking it could kill bosses

[night hemlock]

It can kill bosses though

Not fast but it can

[winter wyvern]

I'm sure I had done it previously, but I tried again and nope, this does not fix the issue. I timed the procs while walking in circles against a boss, and it's casting Defiling Nova every ~7s, so roughly twice what's expected. This is close to a single-point expectation indeed. At this point I'm just fed up with things not working as intended/written in this game.

[obtuse quest]

Curious, what was the OG intent of using that node? Cause in my eye that looks like utter ass

[lost gale]

It is

[sonic wind]

It has the spell tag and area tag, so with stupid amounts of int it could likely reach pretty crazy aoe (base aoe is already good)

ofc idk why the clear spell only triggers when boss nearby

[old hull]

Because AoD isn't allowed to have nice things, damagewise, despite half its skill tree being damage stuff

[lost gale]

AoD's whole power budget is in fume weaver and the minion ailment stuff

everything else has to be trash

(not that skills have remotely equivalent power budgets)

[sonic wind]

Its just so funny

The skill doesnt even need to deal damage to bosses

Even if it only worked as clear skill

it would be fine

but somehow it is kneecapped from even doing that.

[lost gale]

dr34d trying to do carrion bleed AoD straight after launch in 1.3 was darkly funny

skill gets a huge buff, a much better ailment type, ailment type gets an incredibly strong primordial item so surely it'll be good?

[muted mist]

Sometimes I wonder if EHG is good at math and we just keep missing some of the wild build options. Then I come to my senses

[wintry flame]

[obtuse quest]

BUt it does physical damage anyway sooooooo

L

[lost gale]

Sometimes I wonder if EHG is good at math but then a primordial belt and a brutality rampancy exulis drops

[muted mist]

I also wonder if they're perfectly fine at math and they just don't bother because the dartboard balance is better enrichment for our enclosures

[tacit plinth]

They dont bother to test much of the stuff they make for sure

[tidal adder]

Guys can someone explain how to do Infernal Shade snapshotting?

[sick belfry]

I keep thinking that maybe we should have the CT program again

whatever supposed drawbacks from it seem like not a big deal if we can get stuff properly tested, both balance wise and making sure critical bugs get caught before live

like, every season some of the new stuff they added, ones that are supposed to be the highlight of the season, turns out to be bugged

[tacit plinth]

We should definitely get thay back cause ehg testing is just bad

[lost gale]

spec infernal shade to attach to minions, have unlimited duration, stack attack/cast speed and give haste.

Cast it on your abom or whatever minion you want it on

unspec it and replace it with bone curse or whatever other skill you want instead

assuming that's the kind of infernal shade snapshotting you mean

[tacit plinth]

Like I can understand the weaver set bug to affect all weapons but the fact that shields,quiver,catalysts also get affected it means no proper testing is ever done

[lost gale]

people acted like 1.2 was solved before it started because of the testing realm and content creators but there were quite a few builds (re-)discovered mid season which were better at downing UA than the pre-season ES builds.

Serpent Strike DOT, Time Rot Javelin for example.

[tidal adder]

Yes, thanks! too much work lol 🙂

[lost gale]

It's only worth it if you're really minmaxing

[tidal adder]

I am level 70 so I think it is not necessary at this stage

[sick belfry]

yeah, it was quite surprising to see a new great build pop up, and then another one and another one

[tidal osprey]

Is there a specific list on what can Julra's Obsession apply to minions that work? I know cast speed and attack speed work. To be specific, I want the low-life-ward + dread shade combo with Julra and minions but the forum I read did not answer if it works now (or ever will) so Im just hoping theres a list somewhere on what works with what (Julra + minion) interaction.

[lost gale]

the experimental gain ward based on missing health affix doesn't work on minions

[tidal osprey]

okay thanks!

[tender ridge]

as a rule of thumb, when stats are given to minions it's only simple stats like resists, cast speed, flat damage, crit stats, etc

[obtuse quest]

Also minions can’t take attributes because they don’t know what to do with them since they aren’t players.

[sonic wind]

Dont mourningfrost work tho on MA?

could have sworn I had them working once

[lost gale]

don't think so, MA as a minion shouldn't have any stats

[obtuse quest]

It's not that they can't hold attributes, it's that they do not have the default converts into damage and such that we have.

By default, if you feed a minion INT for example, they'll just hold the INT and do nothing with it.

[lost gale]

oh is that how it works?

I thought it was more like dota where some units (mostly heroes) have stats and others do not so giving them a +10 strength item is just adding to a category which does not exist and does nothing.

[obtuse quest]

That's what I have gotten from the devs a while back when people kept asking about MA, yeah.

[sick belfry]

wasn't it the other way around? some skills minions can use have attribute scaling, but those attribute scaling does nothing because minions can't have attributes?

[obtuse quest]

ALL skills have attribute scaling inherited from their summon skill.

Otherwise your minion's attacks would do jack all damage.

[sick belfry]

yeah, that's the % increased the minion gets from the summon skill, scaled by your attributes, right?

I'm thinking of the actual skills they cast having attribute scaling

[obtuse quest]

I know. ALL of them do. They are effectively placeholders and to minions they do not exist.

[sick belfry]

that's kinda weird, so it's also placeholders for our skills too?

as in, minions can cast some of player skills too

[obtuse quest]

Generally, minions can't cast player skills and players can't cast minion skills, they're there just in case something breaks.

[sick belfry]

I'm thinking of the example in this convo #👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

[obtuse quest]

minion skills have attribute scaling as mostly a "In case of emergency"

[obtuse quest]

Yes, as I said "TO minions, they do not exist."

[sick belfry]

that's such a roundabout way of coding it 😄

got a link to the convo where they explained this have attribute but have no scaling mechanic?

[obtuse quest]

It's buried in hell, you might as well ask again at this point.

[old hull]

They do not have attributes at all

they get none of the base effects, like no inc armor per str, in addition to just not being able to scale skills with them

[obtuse quest]

Oh, they straight up can't even hold them anymore?

[old hull]

afaik, they never could

I think they are just something only players can have

[obtuse quest]

🤔

[green nacelle]

So if I am leveling, I choose Lich atm, I am using blood rip to cast marrow shards, but noticed ghost flame also can cast marrow shards, I think my Aura of Decay kills most mobs but single target/omens I need marrow shards for damage I think. Can I switch to ghost flame? I have a corrupted scepter that changes bleed to ignite and increases ignite damage is why I’m thinking about it.

I’m lvl 68

[lost gale]

ghost flame needs like 3 or 4 idols with good rolls to sustain its mana cost and it doesn't do very much without being a dedicated build

the mshards proc is at most 3.2/s which you can easily beat with cast speed

zombies however, zombies can trigger mshards for you and you're exactly the right level to use zombie rings

[green nacelle]

what are zombie rings? is that a legendary to look out for?

[lost gale]

unique item which gives you zombies a chance to revive

not that rare

[green nacelle]

Okay I won't switch sometimes it feels like I have the damage, but not the survivability to keep where I'm at with 1.2 hp, and 900 ward, with aura on I sit around 400 ward.

the wand just changes my global bleed chance to ignite right? not skills bleed chance from passives?

[lost gale]

nah it should change it from skills too

[green nacelle]

okay, I swapped aura of decay to phy but I don't think it affects that then because itself changed everything to bleed?

[lost gale]

there are boots which make aura of decay do fire instead

[green nacelle]

okay, Sorry is there a training dummy somewhere?

[lost gale]

yeah it's in the arena

which is in the divine era, cold region

as far to the west as you cango in that region

[green nacelle]

okay thanks!

[old hull]

Can also right click an arena key to open the map directly to the place that has the dummies

[green nacelle]

yeah it must be aura of decay still appling bleed even with the corruption item equiped? but it only ignites me.

oh so the poision chance is converted to bleed, and the bleed chance gets converted to ignite

understanding now.

[pearl snow]

All conversions only respect 1 jump. Aka AoD is poison by default but you convert to Phys. That Phys cant be converted again

Thats why those boots exist basically

[green nacelle]

yeah gotchu sounds good.

[pearl snow]

Any generic bleed or bleed nodes get converted

[green nacelle]

but then why does it only ignite me and not bleeds?

but w/e

[pearl snow]

If something applies bleeds to you itll convert

[green nacelle]

okay sounds good.

okay just got this unique, is it worth swapping around for?

[lost gale]

probably not, mshards isn't necrotic or fire so it won't apply

and you're getting good health and inc from the purple

[sonic wind]

So I did a really deep dive into this pre-multiplayer (I was attempting to write a script to check all the various stats in game to see what applied and didnt apply to minions) but results were still inconclusive. My memory of what happened was that any stat in the game can be granted to a minion, (meaning can be added to the list of stats they have) but it is 100% case by case basis for if those stats are handled in any way.

I'm 99% sure a minion does receive a "+5 to dexterity" but I dont know where things go from there when it comes to other items that scale with attributes

ofc that revelation that blood spectres somehow lose the stats from julra gloves entirely raises some additional considerations.

[lost gale]

they're not your minions, they belong to the skill sacrifice which may inherit your minion stats but isn't wearing julra gloves

that's my best guess

[sonic wind]

I mean it makes sense but defs a bug

[green nacelle]

is being self-cursed more of a Warlock thing?

[pearl snow]

Not necessarily, but theres some more interactions with it since Fissure can self curse

[tender ridge]

warlock has the easiest time self cursing but all three of them can do it

[green nacelle]

I have a 33% cast speed while cursed idol now, wondering if respecing bone curse is good.

[tender ridge]

bone curse aura will devour your mana if you're not prepared for it

[tender ridge]

not worth it unless you're building around it

damn that's a high roll too

[green nacelle]

Yea really nice rolls.

does the relic that increase DoT for marrow shards just applies to the DoTs applied by skill

[lost gale]

hold onto that idol, it's great

[lost gale]

yeah ailments are the only way to do DOT damage with mshards afaik

[mortal summit]

I tried the "Last Epoch Build Randomizer" and got Warlock with Chthonic Fissure, Infernal Shade, Harvest, Chaos Bolts and Summon Bone Golem.
I never build something myself and thought, this build randomizer is pretty neat to play (away from the stupidness/boreness of just following a build guide a long). this is, what I came up with:
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Apbd1rxk
I focused on using fissure to cast chaos bolts, and help with shades to prolong the fissures and an auto cast harvest via chaos bolts as well. rest is focused on fire damage. is this viable or just dogshit what I built? 😅

[stuck owl]

Warlock, Level 100

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Warlock (57)

General:

▸ Health: 1,198, Regen: 20/s
▸ Mana: 104.51, Regen: 9.6/s
▸ Ward Retention: 50%, Regen: 25/s
▸ Attributes: 2 Str / 2 Dex / 17 Int / 2 Att / 8 Vit
▸ Resistances: 35% / 0% / 0% / 0% / 0% / 91% / 16%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 240
▸ Armor Mitigation: 3% (54)

Used skills:

Chthonic Fissure / Infernal Shade / Harvest / Chaos Bolts / Summon Bone Golem

[obtuse quest]

Golem in a warlock build.
You would have lost nothing if you didn't spec bone golem.

[sonic wind]

Hmm those idols are worth ~11.5 flat spell damage and 4.5 mana/s on coal.....

4 of them would legit be enough to run bone curse on it

and oversustain the mana anyway

granted damage isnt really a problem but at same time since I run primordial death champ relic the cast speed would be a lot defensively too

come to think of it the bone curse procs themselves would be a very significant damage increase too...

Yeah bone curse procs would be ~15% more total damage at 600 mana

Would be better without the very problematic self cull node lol

Hmm no its not worth. Loses defensively to blood spirit omen idols by a lot until you are at like 3-4lp 3t7 gear which doesnt exist anymore

[lost gale]

Lich with kill threshold on bone curse aura is giving enthusiastic consent imo

[tender ridge]

self cull is only ever a problem if you don't have ward, and even then if you're getting that low you're probably dead already

[lost gale]

it's a larger fraction of your EHP with corrupted form

[tender ridge]

well it's the same proportion regardless because cull is proportional to begin with

I think i get what you mean though. Corrupted form isn't playing LLW so you're killing yourself at 18% instead of at 0%

[mortal summit]

The other option would've been bone mage 😅 it's a randomizer in the end.

[obtuse quest]

Randomizer is literally one skill off an old meta setup lmao

[old hull]

It's the same amount of your health, but double the % of your "max health" since you can't go over 50% health. Also health gets hit really hard by cull since it's always cutting off endurance health.

Kinda hard to compare an actual ward build to health build for that tho

[tender ridge]

yeah that's true

I was thinking about it in terms of raw instead of how corrupted form limits your max to 50%. you still have the 50% ward though so it's proportionally the same amount of your ehp as it would be in a health build

[lost gale]

if you have much WPS you shouldn't be getting hit with 0 ward tbf

I think you have to be hit at 0 ward and below 12% health for it to kill you

[tender ridge]

yeah you have to have 0 ward and be below the KT for it to kill you

which is why it's basically irrelevant for the most part. if you're that low with that low of a ward value, you're pretty much dead

[sonic wind]

Yeah I do twisted heart style ward setups with 0 ward retention, lifestack, and endurance threshold stacked all the way to max life (like 5k). Low life ward is continuous generation so you need retention to be able to tank with it, high life ward does not need retention because you are just relying on having 2 or 3 casts worth of ward sitting on health before you take each hit.

ward breaks every hit usually so cull would be immediate death.

[tender ridge]

well it's only immediate death if you're already low on health

it's not like your entire health pool is covered by the KT

[lost gale]

you don't get culled if damage brings you below the threshold and 0 ward, only if you get hit when you have 0 ward and that brings you below the threshold I think

but if you have even 1 ward when you get hit you wouldn't get culled at any life value (though you may die anyway from the damage ofc)

[old hull]

Should just check after the damage instance that health is below threshold, but hard to test defensive stuff that that

I think the ward interaction was something they added a while back, maybe a patch note better explains it if we can find it, doesn't seem to be explained in game afaik

[sonic wind]

I wanna know what you are doing differently vs ubberoth that you arent taking literally 5-10 10k damage hits every second

because whenever I fight him he cancels all his animations and overlays 5+ slams in different places at same time.

[tender ridge]

nobody said anything about uberroth

that's a whole different beast than the vast majority of the game

[sonic wind]

i mean sure but if my build cant trivialize ubberoth I am not playing the build

[tender ridge]

that's fine but that's definitely not how most people play

[sonic wind]

Sure. I come from poe land where I am one of the nutjobs who will spend 20-60 mirrors on a single gear slot for a niche build.

so I'm used to people playing the game a bit differently than me XD

Also tho, like if bone curse setup is only netting me 15%-20% more damage idk what content that damage matters in outside ubberoth

Like I'm sitting well over 100mil dps rn

[lost gale]

on what build?

[night hemlock]

It matters for corruption pushing more than Uberoth probably

[ancient ice]

Good evening. Can anybody give me a hand and improve this build:
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/AVa7vLXl

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 73

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.5

Class:

Acolyte (21) / Necromancer (60) / Warlock (5)

General:

▸ Health: 1,434, Regen: 16.22/s
▸ Mana: 268.04, Regen: 11.28/s
▸ Ward Retention: 191%, Regen: 3/s
▸ Attributes: 10 Str / 2 Dex / 38 Int / 2 Att / 9 Vit
▸ Resistances: 111% / 78% / 104% / 7% / 0% / 78% / 66%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 21%, Threshold: 287
▸ Dodge Chance: 2% (35)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 17% (364)
▸ Block Chance: 52%, Mitigation: 23% (237)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 11%

Used skills:

Summon Skeleton / Summon Skeletal Mage / Dread Shade / Summon Volatile Zombie / Marrow Shards

[ancient ice]

Not sure how to show the content of my chest for gear.

[sonic wind]

Coal.

[sonic wind]

Get rid of that belt shield and weapon for starters

In dread shade try to always take the armour per vitality node if you are making it apply to you

Idk why you have marrow shards specced. zombie marrow shards use your stats not minion stats

You need life, like a ton more. and your resists arent capped.

I honestly dont know what you are trying to use as your damage source here

My best guess is profane oblation

but for that I think the zombies here are just wasting your mana

You're going really hard on +level corrupts but you are gonna want to replace those items soon. Defs grab the sinathia shield and get skeleton resummon to 100% chance, then you could go legends entwined for 4 total levels.

In acolyte passives drop the ward stuff and put those points into the vitality node. Absolutely put the points into the int node in warlock for the mana.

also get the 10 int at start of lich, and later get the 16 at end

Int in necro tree, you are missing the skeleton resummon node entirely. Minion pen per overcapped resistance node makes zero sense when you havent capped resists

that should be enough to get you started I think

Oh and your 1x4 idol is doing nothing whatsoever

that affix is spell damage for you, not the mages

[obtuse quest]

Yeah seconding that, what is marrow shards doing here? It’s using your stats to cast it.

[rocky flame]

I have searched some guide on the letools and maxroll but didn't fine any that fit my need

do you guy have some lich build that can be league starter? (cuz i'm running solo character found)

I mean, it doesn't required to have spcific unique at least but just need some level is okay

[obtuse quest]

Run warlock instead.

[rocky flame]

so there is no league starter lich right?

if that's so then I will give it up for now

[lost gale]

Rip blood + marrowshards is the usual levelling setup but it's better on warlock for levelling than it is on lich because fissure is amazing for levelling

[obtuse quest]

With how lich is made, you either play subpar, or just start as another mastery then swap in.

On paper, lich will never get a “league starter”

[rocky flame]

okay, let go war lock first then respect

[lost gale]

Warlock does have some good builds for endgame too, though lich is generally better

[lost gale]

oh a patch, I'm sure destruction engine/sacrifice has been fixed

[night hemlock]

Fix? EHG don’t fix

[sonic wind]

I mean it could get one if flay was useful for anything but manastack.

[ancient ice]

@sonic wind & @obtuse quest : doesn't the Marrow Shards proc due to the Bone Pact spec?
Main goal is to get as much damage with explodin minions.
Awakening Presence gives me free Zombies, which theoretically proc Marrow Shards. This is only a bonus to the Skeletons exploding.

TBH: I have no clue how to skill a character and just getting into crafting with WW and LP. So I appreciate all help. I'm playing LE only "low level" as much as my spars spare time allows (besides work and family), so I'm not able to dedicate as much time to videos as I like or should.

I've taken the build from Grunfire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GUTMW9uCO8

[lost gale]

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/qxvx80ql

better oblation build

[obtuse quest]

Yes, but it's casted using your damage stats, not minion damage stats, so either it's going to do no damage, or your zombies are doing no damage.

[ancient ice]

For now I prefer this one. I'm moving ahead good and Grunfire has interessing and unusual builds. Thanks nonetheless for the idea and I will take a look at it at a later time!

[ancient ice]

The Zombies exploding are doing nice damage, although I would need to check how much. The Skeletons do between 4 and 15K as the build is now.
I've updated the build a bit, but I'm in a hurry (family) so I can post it in 1-2 hours hopefully.
I'd apprechiate all the help I can get to max the stats/dmg.

[sonic wind]

I mean sure while leveling or early on it will do some amount of damage but it will hit a brick wall very quickly.

[ancient ice]

Atm I'm clearing Lvl 66 echo with 0 problem, but I'm sure I will hit a wall pretty soon.
Better to optimize the build or switch to the one you suggested?

[ancient ice]

Is there a good viedo on how the dmg calulation works? I though the damage scales with intelligence. Not sure to which part the stats on gear actually help. Is there an online calculator?

[obtuse quest]

You also need increased damage of the related skill. https://www.lastepochtools.com/guide/section/increased_added_and_more

For example, you have 300%~ Increased minion damage and 30%~ increased player damage.

Your minions will do way more damage than your marrow shards.

[ancient ice]

@obtuse quest This is the slightly updated version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GUTMW9uCO8
So more Minion damage? The Marrowshards I can drop, but what to use instead?

[obtuse quest]

Your zombies are doing damage no? So you raise minion damage.

[green nacelle]

is Damage over time the only way to increase ailment damage or generic increase work too?

oh nvm I have a character sheet

is Rip blood from blood overload not using my specialization?

[tender ridge]

ctrl+f soul feast, get sad

happened all season thus far

[lost gale]

generic increases, damage over time and damage type increases all work

[green nacelle]

okay

thank

[lost gale]

damage type penetration and ailment duration are the other big scalars along with chance to apply

and attack/cast speed for whatever is applying the ailments

[lost gale]

indeed, I want to see what your soul feast build can do

[tender ridge]

i should be getting like 200% more bleed damage but instead it's 40%

[green nacelle]

but melee damage or spell damage % will not affect them?

[lost gale]

correct

[green nacelle]

acolyte has a relice for BS dealing more ailment against bleeding targets how does that work just one of 60 bleeds does a bit more damage?

Marrow shards

not D3

[lost gale]

nah any damage over time inflicted by marrow shards, which is only from ailments afaik, will deal more damage against bleeding enemies

[green nacelle]

okay thanks

[lost gale]

I assume this is what you meant?

[green nacelle]

what about armor shred would that be something to think about? I this MS and my DoTs do most of my damage, bleed and ignite atm.

[green nacelle]

thats a more so its multi right? and yessir

and what about +1s or so are those the real stuff I should look for? or just icing on cake?

[obtuse quest]

Ailments inherit any generic damage increases from the skill that applied it.

A rip blood with 5 points in Run Dry while having 10 int and 100% increased physical damage would apply a bleed that does 40 x (1+1+0.4) x (1.4)= 134~ damage per stack

[green nacelle]

okay thanks

[green nacelle]

what about the corruption that converts to bleed ignite? does it just take the bleed stack and change that or does it recalc using my fire/ignite modifiers?

[obtuse quest]

Recalculate using ignite only, since it's ignite now.

[lost gale]

Anything to do with bleed or phys damage other than your chance to apply bleeds would be irrelevant

[lost gale]

+1 skill level? Really depends on the skill, some just don't have many useful points to spend and others would make good use of more points than you can possibly get

[sonic wind]

cries in wandering spirits and its need for like 30 extra points.

[tidal osprey]

theres an add melee fire damage node in the death knights. will it turn the death knights into fire? i find it a bit weird as to why its there. or am i missing something? to its purpose besides add melee fire damage?

[obtuse quest]

A way to give them more damage without it being potentially massed scaled to hell (like via dread shade)

[tidal osprey]

i see. that makes sense. if it was necro then it would be too OP. thanks.

[trail raven]

Does increasing spirit frequency help with Flame Whip? I know the weapon states nodes affecting spirits only do not work for flame whip. Is the flame whip 1 pr fissure or how it works?

Never played this and I am planning a build

[sonic wind]

every time the fissure would release a spirit it instead does a flame whip

frequency works

[pearl snow]

Arguably frequency is one of your strongest affixes

[trail raven]

Is this build broken? With the fissure spell dmg per 2% ignite chance. There is so much item support for that

soulfire looks insane for it

[lost gale]

not really

it has good single target damage, a huge amount of stun ability

but it's relatively slow at clearing maps

[trail raven]

Well I play hardcore

Ergo I don't push corruption higher than 300-500

[lost gale]

I'd say profane veil orbs are better

for both dealing single target damage and for surviving hardcore stuff

[trail raven]

I spesifically want to test out the weapon

which is flame whip

[lost gale]

ok

[obtuse quest]

Then this is the best version for it, yes.

By it’s nature it has a clear issue, but built well it can even stun uberroth so…

[vapid kindle]

marrow shards nova helps out a decent amount, it’s not so bad now

[lost gale]

that node is definitely getting nerfed

well, actually, who knows what EHG are thinking balance wise.

It makes every other way of playing mshards obsolete though

[sonic wind]

Marrow shards made itself obsolete

Projectile has always been a clunky mess it finally has a chance to actually do something

They just need to make the base skill good too. maybe make it a cone instead of projectile and let everything scale the cone. The splinters just arent working

especially with how weird it is with scaling breaking the usual rules

[tiny eagle]

Helo, guys, how is Abomination doing this season...?

[sonic wind]

Still a big meaty stat stick with no flavour

[tiny eagle]

😄 thanks! I mean anyone killed Uber with it...?

[sonic wind]

Yes I promise many people have, thats like its entire purpose

pretty sure its still the second strongest solo minion in game by numbers?

maybe third depending on if you want to start thinking about ballistas

eh well those arent solo

(and the strongest solo is only strongest by a technicallity)

because its rift beasts from the amulet with perfect evolutions XD

and those only work vs low health enemies because ehg is mean and doesnt like cats (and needs to be played on lich)

[lost gale]

rly? what's the best possible?

[sonic wind]

all of the ones that trigger after every attack with a chance

thats the most important

Then you need to avoid getting evolitions that will lock in animations

Basically the 5x that trigger after each attack, feathers, defense curl, assimilating blood. Thats already 8/9 last one should be movement skill of some kind

And its totally unplayable rn anyway because of duration

you need to wait for defense curl then hit it with low life death seal

so you have maybe like 2 seconds of actual build

and only vs low health bosses

completely unplayable

And ofc gl getting those evolutions anyway

[noble flame]

Quite good. I ran a Blood Wraith version of the build and have downed Uber with it. I consider it a top-tier build for everything except the Omen windows.

[sly forge]

btw has self sacrifice been fixed?

[sly forge]

omen window is something... special

you need defensive and aoe gear rather than maximal dps

[lost gale]

of course not

[pearl snow]

I doubt they will fix that anytime soon

[noble flame]

Same... but I will keep hoping

[lost gale]

fixed before fangs of asterkarn inshallah

it's probably on the roadmap for 1.6

maybe they'll just put a minimum cast range on devour & call it good

[tender ridge]

This isn't a build this is a glorified damage proc

[tender ridge]

Big hype for berserker. Gimme my wereraven

[lost gale]

truthfully I'm not that into the zerker mastery design but I am into most of the new things skills can do and keen to see what modders will do with them

% chance of 100% cooldown reduction is underused imo.

I want some kind of erratic seeming lightning spell which has like a 0.5s cooldown and 80% chance of 100% CDR so you get strings of uninterrupted casts with small pauses.

strong, low CD spells with high chance to not go on cooldown

[tender ridge]

Yeah I'm a big grimarillion fan. There's a bunch of stuff GD does that I wish LE would do

Like how it handles retaliation. Sigeons is pretty close to that

[lost gale]

Grima is real good, although the crusader skybeams are OP af

[tender ridge]

All the D3 classes are broken in that submod lol

[lost gale]

GD does retal so well! except with multi-hit WPS, that's just always OP

all the damage penalties per-hit of multi-hit WPS don't apply to RATA unless the modder specifically puts a reduced total retal mod on the WPS and they never do

[lost gale]

they are, I think WD is the worst offender

[tender ridge]

One thing that's in GD that would be interesting for something like mage is Elemental converted to Elemental. Basically just turning anything cold, fire, or lightning into an even tri-elemental split

Runebolt does it already

It might not be possible generically with how they do conversions here tho

[tacit plinth]

They moved to 1.5 almost no fixes will come so whatever its bugged it will stay bugged until 1.5 and hope they fix that there in the 1 month and a half of fixes kappa

[lost gale]

I hate X to elemental conversions, there's no good stacking RR devotion for it

and it's not like you can itemise for it either

[tender ridge]

Yeah it's entirely suboptimal, but it's a cool feature that's possible. Tho the priest mod does make a tri-ele 2H gun build viable

[wet sky]

im going to do a bone shatter golem build solo minion build, anyone anyone got any idea idea what the bis weapon would be fore this , im thinking of going with the ward relic twisted heart but im torn between mad alchemist ladle for all the cast speed or the bone wisp for the +skills and spell damage or should i be looking at a 2 hander for pure raw damage? any help is grateful plz

[old hull]

Probably ladle for the cast speed, or maybe a good slammed shattered cycle or 2h. As long as you aren't trying to push uber or super high corruption, you can probably make any of those work, so not a big deal.

[wet sky]

thanks

[forest fog]

I'm level 52 following a max roll guide on necromancer, and I honestly hate minion builds.. Is warlock better for both end game and leveling?

[old hull]

Warlock does great for leveling, not sure it's the best mastery for end game but it should be fine as long as you aren't trying to push the limits

Lich tends to scale higher at the end, if that matters to you, but obviously gotta be warlock to run chthonic fissure and any other exclusive

[obtuse quest]

Warlock is the best for leveling within acolyte.
Warlock is decent at end game, but not as high of a ceiling as Necro or Lich

[sonic wind]

You hear of cast on crit? well now we have "cast on boss low health after pressing your piano of buff skills and pray it doesnt miss"

[tender ridge]

Yeah it's just a flavor proc more than anything. Might as well be trinket text. The amulet was originally only useful for the ease of access to the +all skills it gave. Now it's just a fine generic leveling minion amulet that you eventually replace.

[old hull]

It still gives all res, move speed, and all attributes, it's not bad for general use just more likely you'll want to replace it for something else now

Also if you can get a good roll evo with the hat beast, you basically beat the game

[tender ridge]

yeah it's still generically pretty good. just not bonkers for how easy it is to get early in the campaign

[night hemlock]

I want Season 5 to give me a relic that doesn't make me have to have a damn dinosaur on my Necromancer

Please EHG

[pearl snow]

Just dont use dinosaur ezpz

[night hemlock]

It doesn't feel great having to nerf yourself to stay within the class fantasy.

It would be cool if there were specific models for each class but that's a lot of work.

[old hull]

There are definitely necro builds that don't use t rex

[night hemlock]

Not saying there aren’t, I just dislike it thematically that it is BiS on a lot of minion builds.

It’s a small / non-issue really but yeah

I think LE in general has great class identity and really does the fantasy well overall, that’s just a small gripe I have.

[sonic wind]

The offhand is actually quite good too

if the trex it self actually did any damage whatsoever then it would be fine to reduce the buff power

but it doesnt so if buffs get even a little worse the item becomes 100% worthless

[green nacelle]

So for auto cast Marrowshards from blood rip with Phys Aura of Decay, what support skills should I use? ATM I’m using transplant, reaper form, Bone Curse. I’m thinking I can get rid of bone cure for something else though, mostly using it for Marked for Death debuff on bosses.

[pearl snow]

Death Seal is great for lich, otherwise Bone Curse is probably best

[wintry flame]

yeah Lich's is probably the worst offender. T-Rex is only BiS for phys minions

they just need to actually get a better understanding of what needs to get buffed before they nerf things. tbh

[tender ridge]

I'd like to see the actual fissure buffed. spirits, whips, and obviously chaos bolts are good

but the fissure's direct damage and ailments per second suck

and fix the damn Incision bug on Soul Feast 😡

[obtuse quest]

How are you fitting 6 skills

[green nacelle]

I’m not specializing transplant

Just using it, I’m not using Marrowshards on my bar

So it’s all G

[obtuse quest]

Ah, the usual.

[green nacelle]

The usual suspects

[obtuse quest]

Then yeah either keep them or swap bone curse for Death seal if you like defense.

[night hemlock]

People might still use it for the +4

But yeah

[sonic wind]

Theres also the primordial minion offhand for solo minuons

with the awfully worded stack cap

[wintry flame]

yeah that's not that competitive tbh

at least not on acolyte

[sonic wind]

for non phys its fine

31% more damage, +2 levels, and stupid good ward generation with mountain boots + lich nodes for dodge int

4k end threshold is like 5k ward per second lol.

[night hemlock]

You lose the ability to scale block though or run a 2H so it’s not almost free like the relic choice is.

Relic is not that competitive of a slot really compared to the off hand slot for minion builds.

Or even just run an exalted off hand

[sonic wind]

Builds already make a lot of sacrifices for 5k ward per second in other ways XD

[sonic wind]

But yeah idk. Bones of the ancestral pack is defs a lot better than it gets credit for at least especially if you are snapshotting lich's scorn (you could snapshot the t8 affix instead for double the flat) assuming that works still.

[night hemlock]

Smaller sacrifices I’m sure

Giving up an offhand and a better primordial unique isn’t really worthwhile for most Acolyte builds

[sly forge]

which build are you using?

since bones of the ancestral pack seems only suitable for solo minion

[wintry flame]

they were speaking generically about solo minions I believe

[austere breach]

what's your favorite/most fun minion builds (no need for strongest just good enough)

I was levelling an acolyte and a sentinel

[sonic wind]

Solo main minion yeah. You can have a bunch of skeletons or whatever running around and that wont hurt you though because of how the stacks are given priority.

It'd be best for bone shatter golem I'd think? The other candidate is stat sharing minions though since the stats given by stacks also apply to you and are granted by the stacks of the buff

Only solo stat sharing minion I can think of is falcon tho

[old hull]

Yeah, bone pack is best for non-solo builds where you have one primary minion and a bunch of smaller minions to trigger it

On primalist it works well enough just with a swarm of minions because the defense is so valuable

[tender ridge]

it gives the bonus to whichever minion has the highest skill level right?

[sonic wind]

Yeah. So like a lv28 abom with a pile of 22 skeletons sitting around can use it just fine.

[tender ridge]

might be kinda cool to try with fire zoo BM

32% more damage, 21% increased cast speed at best though, and that's only if you've got full stacks. how hard is it to maintain 7 stacks?

[sonic wind]

like 8 hits per second average needed

difficult if you have just 1 minion (but doable with some things that heavily multi hit)

[lost gale]

blood specters when Abom survives

there's a bug where abom sometimes kills itself though so unless you're prepared to take steps to mitigate that (lower resurrection chance, keeping skeletons away from abom, maybe using archers instead even - Abom shouldn't die unless he tries to sacrifice a skeleton he's very close to)

but if you can live with that blood specters is really cool

[austere breach]

are minions fun in LE ?

right now im doing a sentinel but I started an acolyte also

and not sure what to play there

I wanted to play rip blood but I've seen that's it's meta

so

never mind

[lost gale]

the most fun builds i've played in LE are acolyte builds which used minions as a resource but scaled player damage and VK time rot

[tender ridge]

i like them more than most games

[lost gale]

and shamefully I must admit to enjoying spriggan form totems on primalist

[tender ridge]

it's nice having a key to control them

[austere breach]

why ?

do you like it better than poe

I played a minion build I loved there

zombie and skeleton archer poison

very fun

[lost gale]

most fun poe minion build I've played was skelly mages

[tender ridge]

yes. PoE minions are fairly dull imo and it's annoying to need predator support if you want to direct them

[lost gale]

zombies are dreadful imo

[tender ridge]

but I did like them in PoE, just certain builds is all

[lost gale]

LE zombies are really fun

[tender ridge]

I love Summon Reaper. it just sucks lol

[austere breach]

right now im playing voidknight dot

ravaging aura void beam

and stuff

trying out

[austere breach]

never tried those

[lost gale]

back when I played them, which was a long time ago, before act 5 was released for poe1, they just had insanely aggressive AI compared to other minions

[austere breach]

damn

old time

i started in tota

[lost gale]

last league I played for more than a couple of hours was Legion IIRC

[austere breach]

I see

acolyte is one of my least favorite class

everything I tried there failed

like primalists

so I really need to create something that work one day

xD

[lost gale]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/profile/jdorange/character/jdorangeS4NEC blood specters works

[austere breach]

I never follow guide but when i level up my acolyte I'll do this one

I think I need to learn from guides on acolyte

[lost gale]

idk if that's even the best version but it's certainly the highest on the ladder

[austere breach]

she has two shield

lmao

I never thought of seeing this one day

necromancer double shield

[austere breach]

so weird seeing this low level body armour in a real build 😮

[austere breach]

where are the spectre

[lost gale]

sacrifice

[austere breach]

sacrifice summons minions

?

😮

wow badass

[lost gale]

they're really quite strong

[austere breach]

never heard about it before

is it unknown

[lost gale]

no but it was bugged before 1.4

more damage mods on the skill tree just didn't work

[austere breach]

is this a last epoch special

most stuff they have don't work

wtf

[lost gale]

yeah it's a real shame

[austere breach]

I keep hearing oh it's good now

before it was bugged

how do you release stuff that don't work

😔

[lost gale]

previously you weren't limited to 13 blood specters but they did much less damage partly because of bugs but also because they buffed their damage a lot

[austere breach]

I remember the most important dmg node on the raptor didnt work

I was struggling to do dmg

I heard it was bugged

[lost gale]

but when they fixed the damage nodes it was obviously going to be too strong with uncapped numbers so they limited the numbers and added another buff

[sonic wind]

laughs in manifest armour still not working with 95% of unique items despite that being a stated goal to fix like 5 years ago

[lost gale]

13 blood specters now are about as strong as 200 would have been pre-patch IIRC

[austere breach]

and it's not like they pump out content fast or something

[lost gale]

the build is still bugged lol because of the destruction engine bug where Abomination sacrifices itself

if they fix that it'll be a giga smooth levelling/league start build

[austere breach]

that's so dumb because if you don't release it working there is NO way you catch up

like you can't do that 🤔

they are like me with dishes

you stack

problems for later

[sonic wind]

Nah this one is just because minions don't know what to do with most stats. It would be a one time major rework to that system instead of doing them all by hand

[austere breach]

we don't sacrifice abomination

right

[lost gale]

for 1.3 they advertised the lich passive tree rework with Corrupted Form, which didn't work on release...

[sonic wind]

you do if it bugs out :)

[austere breach]

they are 50 and they have the efficiency of D4

how do you do this

😔

[lost gale]

Abom has a node called Destruction Engine which triggers sacrifice on minions it tries to devour

If you make Abom from Skeletons only then it'll devour any skeletons that exist while it's alive

Skeletons return mana to you on death

so you summon skeletons, which have a chance to respawn

[austere breach]

your miniinbs fight themselves

nobody left to kill ennemies

would be funny

[lost gale]

Abom sacrifices skeletons to make blood specters and also does damage (iirc Abom accounts for about 15-20% of total damage even though you're not really building it for ideal dps)

[austere breach]

I didn't play minions in poe 2 yet too

[sonic wind]

yep that sounds like current abom all right

[austere breach]

I need to try it

[lost gale]

the bug is that sometimes when the skeleton it tries to eat is standing too close to the abom the abom gets sacrificed instead

[austere breach]

lmao

[lost gale]

it seems like this is a bug with sacrifice rather than abom per se, because someone replicated that with self cast sacrifice where the wrong minion gets sacrificed

but in theory Abom is the only way you automate sacrifice while being selective about what gets sacrificed

[austere breach]

so you don't really sacrifice

you let them do it

[lost gale]

yes

[austere breach]

I tried MANY builds

with this one

trying to make some dmg over time builds

never worked

[lost gale]

it costs a little more mana when Abom casts sac than when you do it manually but it'll only sacrifice Skellies and if you don't have mana for sacrifice it just eats them normally instead which gains you mana

[austere breach]

hungering souls

too

[lost gale]

wandering spirits just needs too many skill points

hungering souls skelly mage is really strong

self cast not so much

[sonic wind]

Yeah that skill only works if you get 60 total skill points

it doesnt work at 40

cant get 60 tho so rip

[austere breach]

I also tried marrow shard

1.2

or something

[sonic wind]

they sometimes do this weird thing with base numbers where they balance them around how much damage you could deal but forget to factor in pathing and points used

[austere breach]

bro why don't they do this with rogue

[sonic wind]

granted nobody has looked at wandering spirits in like 6 years

[austere breach]

xD

[austere breach]

what do they even do there

nothing works

😔

[sonic wind]

I mean if you click every single multiplier node on the tree it does.... playable damage

[austere breach]

im still trauma from whern I was struggling

before learning the most important node on my tree

didn't work

for fun

[sonic wind]

Idk why people hatin on rogue so much, most classes can reach that power level

[austere breach]

feel like everything is strong on it

[lost gale]

marrow shard was terrible in 1.2 and it's absolutely amazing in 1.4

[austere breach]

go play mages you have like 3 builds or something

[sonic wind]

go play flurry

[austere breach]

I say this but everyone only play lightning blast

I was doing disintegrate

[austere breach]

well thanks to me we know it's bad

it was bad

they lookeed at my profile

xD

[lost gale]

I saw two liches league starting with wandering spirits getting to like 1.3k c very early on the ladder

[austere breach]

damn this guy sucks with marrow shard

[sonic wind]

i mean you dont need dps for that for most part.

[austere breach]

sorry im a bit tilted at LE sometimes

over time

[sonic wind]

and certain timeline bosses get obliterated by the spirits due to their size

[austere breach]

I saw the early unique

and always tried

veryfun ability

not to put in noobs hand like mine

it could kill people with cringe

[sonic wind]

idk tho I prefer when you are tripping over good builds like on rogue to the rest of classes where you need to rip out some teeth to make half the game work

[austere breach]

me I just want that when I click a path on an skill tree

it's like playable

it's like playtested to be okay this is fine, maybe a bit weak

some people complain about too rare unique

about what's the point to put them here if you don't want nobody to get them

but me I just care that half the time I bait myself into a very shitty ability

[austere breach]

do you think these are just naked dev of ehg

[austere breach]

a rogue build I want to try one day but it's like very memey

it's decoy explosion

with enough mana, cdr

aoe

I should be able to clear like half a screen at once

[tender ridge]

wandering spirits does a lot of damage, it's just the same issues as basically every other spell dot

can't crit so it's hard to scale. it can at least stack since each spirit does damage independently

[austere breach]

necromancer mana stacking 🦆

interesting

zombie is very fun to cast

[old hull]

Yeah, skelemage also has mana stack scaling so that can be combined decently well

[wintry flame]

technically there was a pretty good build but then they "fixed" something with how spirits reveal or something and it broke that build

You would take CD node, then channel for a sec, release, repeat and it would generate a bunch. You could technically do a pretty nice DoT build making skele mages proc your HS and using chronicle to get a bunch of damned chance and just do channeled version. but yeah idk that will be or feel. def a meme

[sonic wind]

I mean I love me a good meme now and then.

I just wish that axe looked like a fork

[wintry flame]

just looks like a normal build to me

[sonic wind]

Normal until I say I didn't spec chaos bolts

[wintry flame]

probably ghostflame or something idk

[sonic wind]

nah it was gonna be mana flay but scale the blood eruption instead and use brutality

but I think you lose the tags for melee if you take cast node

so yeah

meme

[wintry flame]

Oh I see indeed you do lose the melee tag😭

[tender ridge]

it's weird that they gave the ability to directly cast the blood explosion when over half the nodes don't even affect the blood explosion

you lose out on a ton of scaling because so much of it cares about the melee hit doing something to the following spells

[sonic wind]

With like giga aoe and mana it probs can do really good clear

[tender ridge]

blood eruption doesn't get mana scaling when directly cast iirc

[sonic wind]

wtf

[tender ridge]

it's spells proc'd by the melee attack

[sonic wind]

why is this game so rude

so even if you leave it melee it only procs every second attack

and completely ruins any purpose it might have had for clear

legitimately want to know why it even has blood eruption in first placs

[tender ridge]

it's intended to be a hybrid skill clearly

but making the blood eruption able to be directly cast is really odd when more than half the scaling doesn't affect it

[sonic wind]

I mean I guess so but like... it sucks at being melee too

its somehow less damage effectiveness than harvest

by a lot

[tender ridge]

yeah because the design intent is to scale both halves

but it's not exactly easy to do that in most ARPGs since you want to pick a side and stick to it

[sonic wind]

I mean why would you ever care to scale eruption though

it doesnt even go off every attack

and even if it did, you would just end up playing a spell build that happens to need attack speed instead of cast speed

[tender ridge]

crazy how that's how it ended up working isn't it

[sonic wind]

yeah because of the other node that does way more damage and is allowed to proc on every attack XD

which is what makes you wonder why scaling the eruption is so difficult

when theres something actually playable one point away

my only thought about design intent is that they wanted to make a cool vertical slash melee lich skill, but it dealt less damage than harvest and vertical ruined clear ability so they were like "what if it made things explode on kill so packs of spiders wouldnt take 30 seconds to deal with"

and then somehow that idea infected the entire skill

[lost gale]

apart from Brutality, you can make the melee damage do a lot with brutality

its crazy high mana cost for a spammable relatively low ADR melee skill with unimpressive multipliers for the melee damage comes in clutch

[sonic wind]

I looked at it with brutality and rampancy + fangs and it still was really bad

[lost gale]

I saw footage of a pretty fast UA kill with that setup

[sonic wind]

brutality at 200 tho is only 120% more damage which isnt usually enough to make up the damage gaps for a lot of the bad skills

at best its enough to break even

Its hard to factor this type of thing into evaluating a skill tho. If anything it highlights how bad skills like flay and cinder strike are when a giga rampancy brutality setup only gets them to decent damage when it takes void cleave to like 5 billion single hits.

they'll just nerf the scaling layer to ground if one skill deals too much damage and then all the skills being carried by it go back to useless

[charred ridge]

nerf void cleave

[vapid kindle]

[tender ridge]

flay needs some of its power moved out of the mana node and into the rest of the skill

and a lot of skills need general skill tree sweepups

[tacit plinth]

Flay works very well

Either mana stacking,leech,or just harvest flay cold all work well enough

[tender ridge]

yeah flay is a fine enough skill, but it does need the power budget moved around. it's really lopsided into the bottom left of the tree

[tacit plinth]

The ability already has one of the most busted movement interaction in the game if it also deals one of the best dps that would be just broken and it kinda is rn

The range of the jump got nerfed cause fair enough bonkers to map with when a lich kinda can keep up with a warpath player

[charred ridge]

god forbid something gets close to warpath

[tacit plinth]

Yeah right

I was only one keeping up with like 50 less movement speed rofl in 1.3

A big issue this game has its that devs dont have a clear vision of what a skill is or what it can do,sigil of hope is a support skill but you have a part of the tree that is just like an attack and some modifiers ,like gotta make better skill trees

If a skill doesn't have enough scaling just dont have unnecessary nodes give me more nodes that fully compliment the skill

[tender ridge]

skills being able to change between support skills or damage skills is perfectly fine, but it needs to be done intentionally and not as an afterthought

the ring of shields fire aura nodes come to mind. they feel extremely tacked on instead of having been made with purpose

[tacit plinth]

They dont have the modifiers to be good

I rather take 7 extra nodes that add value to the skill

Flay is goated cause without it lich feels way worse

[sonic wind]

I actually have made that deal damage mainly because shield bash can rearrange the shields and make them do weird nonsense with walls that lets you overlap the auras from every shield.

but like

yeah, no real purpose to those existing.

I don't think taking power off mana spell damage node is needed though because hybrid doesn't exist anyway. If the melee nodes were made good it would not change anything except maybe seeing some melee play.

And like, god forbid they accidentally overbuff it and we see a viable hybrid build for a patch, that would definitely be a disaster right.

Wording on mana node implies it should work for casted eruption though, gonna test it now there might actually be a real build somewhere in here

[tender ridge]

yeah it should work. I was misremembering and combining it with the node after it

the node afterwards requires the melee hit to trigger chaos bolts

[sonic wind]

Yeah that is fair otherwise you could end up with every eruption spamming bolts which would be a problem XD

cool yeah, it does work.

[sonic wind]

hm well the node just blatantly lies though.

"additional blood eruptions can still be created by killing enemies with flay" is just false. No matter how many enemies I kill it never triggers more than 1 eruption.

[tender ridge]

i don't think the eruptions ever chained did they

you kill something and get a blast

[sonic wind]

I mean the node says they should so..

[tender ridge]

no it says blood eruptions can be created by killing enemies with flay. a blood eruption isn't flay, it's a subskill of flay

[sonic wind]

On the direct cast node though

[tender ridge]

the node allows the cast to trigger the on kill effect

[sonic wind]

it says "still"

meaning it's talking about that node

you can't kill an enemy with flay if you have taken that node...

[tender ridge]

...

yes i'm aware. it's allowing that direct cast to trigger eruptions since it otherwise couldn't

[sonic wind]

But the direct cast can't trigger eruptions

been killing packs of spiders with it for 5 minutes now, not a single time has more than 1 eruption gone off

[tender ridge]

ahh that's different. the way you worded it you said it never triggers more than one

if your cast isn't triggering additional, that's probably a bug

[sonic wind]

yeah the initial direct cast when oneshotting a pack does not cause any additional explosions (counting them using the wandering spirit spawn node, always spawns 1)

and no visuals to see for the theoretical triggered explosions either

[tender ridge]

yeah it should create at least one extra explosion

[sonic wind]

Well the more damage per mana does apply to the wandering spirit it seems.that might actually work as a build

[sonic wind]

No nvm that is awful. like 60mil dummy dps at crazy gear with 2k mana...

most likely lower too, I assumed 300 flat added spell

also probs overestimate overlapping by a factor of 2

[austere breach]

im soon lvl 50 how do you guys set up your loot filter ? im curious

I just make one each character (very annoying)

I hide everything then ask to show me what I want

but I never know if im supposed to ask for one T7 affix I want, or just an exalted item with the affix I want for rune of havoc or maybe one item I want with like 2 or 3 mod I want so it's mostly done (especially before exalted) or even asking for bad base for glyph of whatever

so tedious

im cof and just got lvl max cof with my first character and decided to reroll

if maybe you had like a better way of doing it

[wintry flame]

I make planners on maxroll, then copy all the equipment from each planner into a different loadout on a single planner and save it as my filter planner and use their loot filter generator to make the filter for me and it has all the builds I care about.

[austere breach]

👀

interesting

[wintry flame]

it's probably the easiest way to get a filter that has all the gear you'd care about

and you can quick copy swap gear pieces for variants of a build

[austere breach]

@lost gale I finally hit lvl 50 and i've been using those blood spectre for a while now

the build is so mana intensive and "active' 😮

the build seem solid

[austere breach]

their duration is so short 😔

the abomination I never used it before and damn that thing hate minions the speed at which it kills them I think he has a grudge

I don't understand why the guy use these nods first do they even work when it's sacrifice instead of devour and even if yes well we only summon skeleton so what's up with these

this node is insane 🤔 I finally learn what's acolyte is all about. My brain has expended with this new knowledge

still abomination is very strong ngl and those blood spectre are very cool

[inner cobalt]

Anyone else experimenting with bees on necro? Seems very strong for leveling and early mono, potentially way beyond that with actual gear to support?

I'm just slapping together a basic build as I go, and skipped right into monos at 42 using the set and the 'rex relic, pure minions without any supporting curses.

[wintry flame]

yeah partially in offline

[inner cobalt]

There's probably some absolutely nutty things to be done with BC as well, just the ward-per-minion node alone handles my survivability in early monos and I really want to see how far this set could be pushed

[wintry flame]

BC?

[inner cobalt]

Bone Curse

For additional damage on every hit

[wintry flame]

ah yeah mine was using that for the % more phys for minions I think bleed ended up being pretty good it's just not that sustainable with potions or wasn't at that time. the affix might've been buggd where you had a chance not to consume or something idk

[inner cobalt]

I've been focusing poison early on, but thinking of stacking dex high so my 'rex gives high phys pen to the bees, and just going ham on bleed

[wintry flame]

https://streamable.com/qhnkbn

[inner cobalt]

But poison has a lot of support in the tree, so you can probably stack that way higher

[wintry flame]

you don't need to go all in on phys pen you get a lot from AoD, affixes, and intelligence

[inner cobalt]

True true

[wintry flame]

I'd also recommend going Blood Keeper's to stack pen instead

it's up to 8% per str and then you can go a bit of attunement to get % inc dmg

depends on the setup but if you want full pen then def do keeper's

https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/planner/8s35180i#4 this was the setup in that video above. I'd do the set mace straight up and not the set affix for weapon.

[inner cobalt]

Ah yeah, big difference in how we're playing it - I'm doing the full set rn (suboptimal, I know), and adding crit (easy levelling)

The rex increases the flat damage of the bees, which is quite nice as well - can't get the flat minion melee/spell dmg modifier on the weapon, so flat increases are hard to come by

Debated completely dropping the weapon and running the primordial ring for the set count, but it's also the best spawner available

Stupid idea has been had, will need to roll a primalist to test it later...

[noble flame]

The trick is to use the other summon skills unspecced, Summon Abom, and then swap the skills. It's annoying and really not necessary on a Blood Wraith setup unless you truly want to min-max.

[noble flame]

The armor gains from Dread Shade are great. I also recommend picking up this node. The dodge is underrated, but it also pairs well with Foot of the Mountain.

[austere breach]

Wow that's a good idea thanks

[austere breach]

Sounds annoying to do yeah but smart. Probably not worth the brother when you are not on bosses

And abom isnt your main skill

[noble flame]

Exactly. It's just a little extra

[austere breach]

But then why do I pick up those node xD

All my acolyte build sucked and failed so someone showed me a profile of a dude playing blood spectre

So I follow

Fun so far

[noble flame]

It's a great build. I've been trying to tell people it's top tier, but the Abom sacrificing itself can be annoying

[austere breach]

Well I will need to find replacement for relic and amulet

He usés probably very endgame drop

In the meantime

I need to check other unique later on

[austere breach]

Yes I asked people their favorite build so I can my first minion build on LE

Someone said this one

[noble flame]

This is what I had on for killing Uber: https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/Qb6Wq5O9

[stuck owl]

Necromancer, Level 97

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Version:

Season 4: Shattered Omens / 1.4.2

Class:

Acolyte (31) / Necromancer (55) / Lich (24)

General:

▸ Health: 2,771, Regen: 326.77/s
▸ Mana: 193.99, Regen: 10.56/s
▸ Ward Retention: 167%, Regen: 193/s
▸ Attributes: 17 Str / 33 Dex / 49 Int / 17 Att / 89 Vit
▸ Resistances: 77% / 77% / 77% / 124% / 65% / 267% / 169%

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 63%, Threshold: 574
▸ Dodge Chance: 52% (2004)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 28% (1,296)
▸ Crit Avoidance: 126%

Used skills:

Summon Skeleton / Aura Of Decay / Assemble Abomination / Sacrifice / Dread Shade

[austere breach]

Interesting the other guy was using a shield and the shield as an axe

Double shield

Funny to see

[noble flame]

The shield setup is really nice for mapping. For Uber, I don't think it's enough to avoid getting killed and so you just try and kill him as fast as possible.

[austere breach]

Everyone and their mother using brewmaster buckler

[noble flame]

It's so good lol

[austere breach]

So weird it doesn't even look that insane to me

For us vitality goated

So I get it

[austere breach]

Nvm another look at it

Its op

Endurance is annoying to get

Perfect belt for any build

I get it now

[noble flame]

Yep, as long as you got cleanse somewhere else the belt is the best

[austere breach]

Why do people care about Uber ?

Is it even usefull to kill it

Have a différents setup

?

I geniuinely dont know I never even killed normal aberroth yet

[noble flame]

Uber really isn't worth the effort tbh. I do like Shattered Worlds and Immortal Vise as items

[lost gale]

there are barely any nodes that matter for the destruction engine thing, the abom is close to unkillable in regular content even unspecialised if you make it from a bunch of minions and you can't get cast speed from the tree. May as well have the option of getting a really fast moving Abom and just maximising its damage via creating it from all types.

[austere breach]

Hé doesn't even take the node that give him an ability on eating Skelton

It sounded strong

[lost gale]

it is very strong, double strike

[austere breach]

A double Bash or something

[lost gale]

but dedicated abom builds stack so much minion CDR that the abom uses it a lot

[austere breach]

Oh make sense

[lost gale]

you don't want to do that for blood specters, you have better idols

[austere breach]

He stacks vitality

[lost gale]

also you may want to make the abom from skeleton archers instead so they don't tend to stand on top of the abom too

yes vitality is an amazing scalar for minion dot damage on necros and blood specters are all about the bleed

you can play them as hit/crit instead but it's worse than bleed

[austere breach]

Yes ive seen on had est

Harvest

Doesn't seem usable

[lost gale]

sorry I don't follow, what about harvest?

[austere breach]

Anything you trigger on kill

It can create blood spectre on kill

And give them lot of criticial I think

Unless im mistake

[lost gale]

ah, for some reason those specters don't benefit from the sacrifice skill tree anyway so they're really weak

they're not actually summoning the same minion, even if they're very similar and share a cap

[austere breach]

Lol

[lost gale]

and the buffs for them in harvest are much worse than the ones in sacrifice along with being less reliable to summon

that isn't a bug, the harvest skill tree makes that clear if you read it

[austere breach]

Thanks guys

[lost gale]

it's just very weak and pointless

[austere breach]

I need to do something now

Ill come back home later if I have question I ping you both

[lost gale]

harvest summoning zombies is actually quite good though, hard to make use of but you get a decent amount of zombies

[austere breach]

Got an appointement in one minute

[wintry flame]

I tested a lot of variations to see maximum dmg output. Necro bleed with potions was the best one and only one I found to do insane dps at 60+ million. The rest all fell like sub 10mil. I didn’t test primalist but math was not even close for those variations

[austere breach]

@lost gale@noble flame why the build doesn't use the tyranosaur unique

I thought every minion build was running it

whenever I saw any vod

[lost gale]

it can, it's not a bad choice at all

[night hemlock]

Not every, but a lot do

[austere breach]

I see

[lost gale]

you can stack endurance with the face of the mountain shield and get another damage multiplier

hard to say what the optimal primordial/T8 is

[austere breach]

sad downfall

why remove +2

+1 would be nice

😭

im not saying this because I got a 3lp

[night hemlock]

Because it was a lot of power for a basically free unique

[austere breach]

i promise

[austere breach]

I thought the build would want minion movespeed somewhere

since they don't last long

but couldn't see anywhere

[lost gale]

blood specters are pretty fast by default

[austere breach]

but i don't have aura of decay yet

maybe it heals them

enough

[lost gale]

no they degen fast but leech loads

[austere breach]

they decay even faster xD

so I thought imagine with crazy ms

[lost gale]

I think the degen is escalating flat per second rather than percentile

not entirely sure

[austere breach]

wait really

[lost gale]

they do degen really fast

[austere breach]

that's a question I wanted to ask $

and forgot

[lost gale]

but they get like 75% leech from sacrifice's skill tree

so they heal to full every tick of damage more or less

[austere breach]

@lost gale did anyone ever built around drain life?

it looks like it's quite bad

[night hemlock]

From what I have tried it is indeed quite bad

I didn’t spend a tonne of time on it though

[austere breach]

not even cool to use

doesn't have anything

hungering souls is cool

too bad it's not possible to use it

😔

I tried once a hungering souls, spirit plague

and stuff

wasn't good

but im a noob builder

[wintry flame]

I think it's likely T8 Bleed Duration w/ T5 Chance on a normal chest piece with bee affix for regen and using vessel.

[noble flame]

It can, but the T-Rex isn't an aura, it's a buff that it casts. So if a wraith dies or is resummoned, it won't have that buff. I just didn't feel like I was getting enough value out of it.

[austere breach]

make so much sense

[lost gale]

because of this interaction with temporary minions I really think it should be an aura and simply have a roar skill it uses periodically

temp buffs & temp minions are always such a clunky combo in this game

[noble flame]

An aura would be real nice

[wintry flame]

or one day we get an option to control item skills 😄

toggle or cast would be nice

[lost gale]

even if you did get that there's a fair bit of turnover on blood specters. I guess they could make them work like coldstone elementals where resummoning at minion limit is a full heal and degen reset rather instead of another summon

[austere breach]

the zombies also

they feel very good to use

so many interaction and cool stuff to do on acolyte

[lost gale]

well zombies you'd usually want to explode

[austere breach]

cool stuff

[austere breach]

yeah it's like a bomb

quite funny

I feel like on this class you can do so many thing

[lost gale]

this is really nice, but unfortunately for the same amount of mana stacking skeleton mages are just much much stronger

[austere breach]

bleed poison, ignite, necrotic dot

infernal shade

[austere breach]

why not both

[lost gale]

well because skelly mages with 4 skills supporting them or hungering souls + 3 support skills are overall stronger

[austere breach]

is infernal shade viable ?

[lost gale]

it has some uses

[austere breach]

I remember thinking it looks amazing

[noble flame]

Infernal shade can be a lot of fun. It's versatile, can be used for DoT, crit, or just buffing minions

[lost gale]

There was a cool build with zombies triggering shades on death but I think mshards buffs have made triggering mshards on death better

[tender ridge]

can we get thriller zombies that dance at your enemies

[lost gale]

if you get enough minion CDR and take leap & vomit apparently they just keep using leap over and over again

so yeah kinda

[vapid kindle]

misha has a pretty crazy infernal shade build, insane tank and damage, pretty clunky to play tho

[tender ridge]

zombies can drop the grounded infernal shades can't they?

the one that normally has a 3s CD

[lost gale]

yes

I think MS might be better tho

[vapid kindle]

from what i’ve seen the dmg looks similar but shade is way tankier

[lost gale]

I think you could build mshards to be as tanky, you could do it on any mastery in theory

[vapid kindle]

ye and that’s kinda true, but it cuts the other way too, you could go more dmg heavy on shade. shade has good slots to build tank without super high opportunity cost though.

[austere breach]

probably a good affix for us

[lost gale]

nah it's a waste

they're replaceable and often replaced, they can survive on leech alone when it matters

[sonic wind]

and its belt slot so there are only 2 exalted affixes that matter XD

3 if you are cdr starved but in that case you're doomed from start

cuz all are suffixes

[night hemlock]

Just corrupt the third affix lul

[austere breach]

I never dropped such insane item before

is this normal/regular with rift beast echo

[noble flame]

Normal rift beast stuff. You're limited to 1 primordial item. I wouldn't say that's a particularly good belt.

It's also a sealed affix, so it can't be used for LP slams

[lost gale]

If there's a lightning blast build that doesn't use legends entwined as its primordial it's probably not a good one

[austere breach]

@noble flame@lost gale is there a fix to the abom disappearing

[lost gale]

Keep abom and skelllies separate

[noble flame]

That's the bug with Destruction Engine, where it sacrifices itself. Avoid casting skeletons on the Abomination. Using Archers can help a lot.

[lost gale]

Abom is so racist that if it has to stand next to a skeleton it will commit suicide

[austere breach]

i'll get this node then

later

guys

1h ward

perma wraith

😮

would be funny

[lost gale]

You can't get enough healing effect for that to work

And it ticks once a second, eventually they'd die 100 to 0 between ticks