📚┃off-topic

[fierce moth]

Through I have no idea why I want to save money... Maybe just want to have a bit savings

[placid yarrow]

welp tft just imploded

[indigo shadow]

A what imploded?

[fierce moth]

Too cute. Ordered one.

[indigo shadow]

I hope the cat is in inclusion

[fierce moth]

Never know cats can own chairs sofas too.

[desert jasper]

They just like to use ours because taller and has our smell

[jovial bane]

She is almost done.
Once glue dries off I will add some tufts and flowers, and fix the face and hair a little bit

[junior oyster]

Holy

Lol talk about drama king

I gotta check out the reddit post lol

[desert jasper]

Yeah, it's hilarious

I also don't believe for a second about the "fully transparent" part

[fierce moth]

...Bees are corrupted Van and Derrick

[junior oyster]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1s9htgl/update_to_the_update_not_an_april_fools_joke/

I find it absolutely hilarious lol

[desert jasper]

Someone posted jenebu's comment there too

which he apparently deleted almost instantly and posted one in more sorry tone

[junior oyster]

Lol I didn't know he posted an original xd

Now I wish I played this league

It would have been the best league 🤣

[desert jasper]

Truly the best league ever
I'd like to thank GGG for this delightful gift

speaking of
I should check my market if I've sold anything

I'll take it

Just 10 more divs and i can buy svalinn unless it the price goes up again

[ebon meadow]

Poe drama carrying the league that was made for making stupid currency since legion and affliction

People are to bored with all the tft stuff

[desert jasper]

Tbh I might actually play more poe during the weekend
since it's 4 day weekend

maybe hit 28 challenges for the free chest mtx
then wonder if I want to go for 36 again

[ebon meadow]

Tnx lol I got screwed ,I have to do 5 hours on Saturday

As a supply store we can't close more than 48 hours

And I m not even in the store department,I m from carpintery

And I m getting screwed with same thing on 1st of may

BUT two week vacation this month

[desert jasper]

Well
Sadly I don't currently have a job
So technically it's an excuse that 4 day weekend

[ebon meadow]

Yes ofitially it is a good excuse lol no one is working and it's justified xd

If it wasn't for the 48 HR law here we could of actually had a long weekend

But main suppliers for food and general goods for town we are not allowed

Not food but local town hall maintenance supply so we fall under the law

[desert jasper]

Back in the day we didn't even have larger stores open on sundays
and 24h stores weren't allowed legally
it's only... relatively new that stores can be open whenever

[ebon meadow]

Spain is reverse from Russia ,Sunday for Russia is a work day for stores

I do complain a lot but this is nothing compare to Russia ,weekends are still same working days as week days ,every thing is open

Here I get holidays every single month apart from November and sometimes March depending on Easter holidays

The complaint is "why am I working when everybody is of " I m not in hotel/restaurant hours anymore

[neon sigil]

Svalinn my beloved.

such a good shield.

[desert jasper]

Tbh I don't really need it
I'm perfectly fine with The Surrender

[neon sigil]

Honestly i love both those shields.

[desert jasper]

I could shove in SRS in svalinn 🤔
Not really sure what else

[vagrant topaz]

You done with LE nub?

[desert jasper]

I'm not sure tbh
I'm kinda at the awkward phase of gearing up where I haven't found any LP uniques or exalted gear to slam them with

[neon sigil]

Can always just toss molten shell and a golem into it

[desert jasper]

I mean I could
But I don't have that much armor and I'm poison holy relic necromancer

[neon sigil]

oh fair.
Thats a good question then. Would you even benefit really from the golems?

[desert jasper]

Not really
Unless it was carrion golem

Really I might just put all my auras and stuff to my gloves and put some other movement skill in than frostblink. That kinda gets awkward during maven
but other than that I'm not really lacking in anything

Well I mean I could still double corrupt my diallas chest
And ofc get corrupted helmet with something nice on it, I guess?

Hmm if I got srs imbued with either chaos dmg support or something poison related I guess they could be okayish dmg boost

[neon sigil]

thats a mood tbh. I got to that point with my cyclone build. Like either it cost a ton of div for the next upgrade or things were just sidegrades

Ngl why does autocorrect have to correct words that are already correct. E.g. were to we're.

[desert jasper]

I could also get lvl 4 empowers or thebetter ones but

you know how much those uber maven only ones are

Like 400 divs for lvl 5 awakened empower

Yeah not paying that LUL

[abstract karma]

hmm what you think - has it some future https://store.steampowered.com/app/590830/sbox/ ?
I mean that standalone engine which is basically based on Valve old engine

[junior oyster]

Sheesh Jenubu really trying to act like he is the good guy here (not like the top mods were either) lol

[warped wren]

they're all insane bro

[junior oyster]

If I had a nickel for everytime he said that I'd have a few nickels

[placid yarrow]

lol

[fierce moth]

I understand something today finally...

What I want is to be seen.
What I lack is I'm sure I can be seen.
What I can't do is I know what can I do to be seen.

To be seen is the core of my troubles. I feel hopeless and worthless because I don't know what people want.

Alright it sounds simple but I never realize that lol

[desert jasper]

Apparently there's some new "tft replacement" already posting in tradechat, asking ppl to join their discord

[mental talon]

Luckily the things that we "needed" TFT for in the past have all but disappeared (unless you're someone that needed boss carries I guess) Beasts, maps, Bulk Currency, Bulk Scarabs pretty much all got solved over the past 2 years thankfully. A replacement is going to have a hard time finding a reason to exist especially if it involves their gross former mods.

[junior oyster]

I did use their free boss carries ngl

[desert jasper]

Yeah

[mental talon]

That's at least my two cents from someone who's been around since the pre TFT days when you had to do Forum trading until now.

[desert jasper]

Tbh I'm just in mathil's global and if I have hard time with a boss there's always someone there that will help

[mental talon]

Their reason for existing was already drying up league after league.

[junior oyster]

But I was mainly on tft for the same reason I am on this server

To chat in offtopic

[mental talon]

Then if you check their past like 3-4 leagues they've essentially lost all their Mirror market to Echo and Sushi's Settle shop except for Standard which they used to have a stranglehold on

[mental talon]

Pretty much or the Pohx global which is 911 I think?

[junior oyster]

I hate and avoid global like it's the plague lol

[desert jasper]

🤷‍♂️ I don't know
I don't actually watch a lot of poe streamers

[mental talon]

Yeah but it has use cases

[junior oyster]

True I used it to get some free spectres

[mental talon]

I forget which one is for Challenges and their is a Boss Carry Global I don't remember them off the top of my head mainly because I don't use them tbh

And I usually am always down to just carry stuff for the homies for free

[junior oyster]

By free I mean the ones that aren't stuff like turtle

[desert jasper]

Also last league when I was done I just gave away my apotecharies, divs etc

[junior oyster]

Last league I wish I voided my char

First time to ever reach 100

[mental talon]

For me it's usually double Corrupt everything then whatever survives just find someone who needs and hand it over

[desert jasper]

Same, first lvl 100
I think I'll keep him in standard though

[fierce moth]

Oh I see what chia pet is. Water that then moss will spread

I seen that but I never own one to play

make sense, in le's version, it's void pet

[ebon meadow]

It is good a very good time spending thing ,also it's always been a thing to have a plant next to screen it calms eyes and nerves same as fish tank

That's a cool alpaca pog

[fierce moth]

The core is something can spread must on the surface of this object and this object must can place on a plane? @lean fiber

[lean fiber]

Change the plant to void and create whatever object you want to have it grow on

[ebon meadow]

I need to get my self a freaking fidget toy for my nerves they have been all over the place last 4 months I geniunly need to chill the fk out

[lean fiber]

We used a simple rock as our example

[ebon meadow]

So Stone golem approach

And also as mason descendant from family and structure welding I l take stone shaping as an approach

My dad and grandfather worked on national monuments that people see ,that is satisfying for me

[fierce moth]

....emmmm I forget what the correspending Chinese name is

[ebon meadow]

For what the art work ? Or something particular?

[fierce moth]

It remind me of I want to own a chia pet to play

[ebon meadow]

So basically u want a moss plant xdd

I forgot u guys had a terminology for it

[fierce moth]

yes but it's not creative at all

[ebon meadow]

I prefer fish tank but that is a very curious thing to own I also like Cactus

[ebon meadow]

It is u have to shape and crop it every week

It's a plant it grows u have to sort of shame

[desert jasper]

Not everything needs to be creative 🤷‍♂️

[fierce moth]

these products just give you a mini plant with a pot and many seeds

quite boring

Or a doll with grass hair

[ebon meadow]

They are blant and boring ,that's why I prefer fish tanks and bonsai trees

[fierce moth]

Remind me of this photo, a mini plant grow in a mini teapot

[ebon meadow]

They require attention weekly

[fierce moth]

I have purchased that, the plant is gone but I still keep the mini teapot

[ebon meadow]

The fact u guys still use Wright on stickers is even rare to me today ,haven't seen them in like a decade

[fierce moth]

it require me to water weekly too

[ebon meadow]

The shaping of those pots cost more work than it sells for times 10-40

[fierce moth]

But I never grow moss

[ebon meadow]

Moss just needs humidity nothing more

Cactuses on other hand have to be be dry and watered only like 2cr a month

[fierce moth]

yes no idea how to understand the definition of pet at the beginning

First reaction is pet = creatures & animals

emmmmm no green on my table indeed

[lean fiber]

It doesn't have to be a creature, it can be any object you want to grow corruption on it.

I don't know how else to explain it 😄

You can have a Void Pet as a sword, a Void Pet as a Unicorn, a Void Pet as a hat, a Void Pet as a mug, etc.

What creativity you use is up to you

[ebon meadow]

Imagination ,u see and seek a figure out how can I make this thing alive and to be a companion,that's why I mention golems as base start

Golems can be made out of any material u can think of

[fierce moth]

Ornaments and decorations? Maybe

[desert jasper]

yes those too

[fierce moth]

... I don't learn golems at all

[lean fiber]

Sure, like I said, whatever you want, use your imagination 🙂

[ebon meadow]

U are an artist just give a thought of how can u bring u creativity to be a alive thing

[desert jasper]

Golem could even be glass
or wood
maybe diamond
mud or metal

[ebon meadow]

A wooden stick can be a companion if u give it a soul like , speech , actions ,feeling ....

[fierce moth]

tbh I don't have any companions...

it's why it's tricky

[ebon meadow]

U have a cat what do u mean

[neon sigil]

what are we talkin bout

[neon sigil]

tbf, pet rocks were a thing

[fierce moth]

how a cat grow corruptions void lol

[ebon meadow]

I was going to mention that like 10 mints ago lmao

[desert jasper]

Extra tentacles

[ebon meadow]

Cats are a source of corruption lol ,we give them anything they want TBF

[sand wigeon]

the twin tail cat is well known in many spiritual traditions

[desert jasper]

love me some cats

[fierce moth]

I just know extra tentacles from a church 😅

[ebon meadow]

We already have cats as pets in game representing different elements outside elemental . Night ,dark ,stealth ...

Moon

[fierce moth]

I done that already, too

Tentacles is the word which inspired me to add extra bones from the church too

[fierce moth]

oh make sense

but it can't spread void

[ebon meadow]

It can that's the imagination part

[ebon meadow]

We have a saying of if black cat walks a cross u get bad luck

Very old one to

[fierce moth]

My understanding for bad luck is no money... Quite traditional

Which drama can caused by bad luck

[ebon meadow]

Crossing a path with black cat for us is very bad luck like 7 years of bad luck from breaking a mirror

[fierce moth]

void = whatever can spread on whatever I want?

How to judge if this thing can spread or not?

Or void must follow that purple colour in game?

😅 sorry my questions are a bit too much indeed. Never touch this term so I need to figure out all parts to make sure I understand what EHG seeking for

Not sure like eyes or plants or maybe bells with different colours count as void or not

[ebon meadow]

Void is a corruption like it spreads something like illness it feed on what ever it can to survive

A bacteria is probably the theme that brought up void. Chaos and the dot we have in games

[fierce moth]

Too simple. Zero introductions for the definition so no clear range are revealed

I doubt EHG just think maybe chia pet is cool so what about make a theme of void pet then they post the post without thinking further

But imagination = think further

[ebon meadow]

That's the goal ,imagination

They give u a tool how u use it it's u own creativity

[fierce moth]

so bees can count as void too?

A group of bees

[ebon meadow]

That's why mtx are popular ,they give us base we make it look cool ,and some times broken

[fierce moth]

@obtuse rune Mr. bee, does bees count as void?

[ebon meadow]

U can make them do void damage no ? If yes then the answer is yes

[fierce moth]

🤷‍♀️ I don't know, I never play void bees

[ebon meadow]

I forgot that Ziz made the squirell mtx for those lol , that is imagination at it's base

But u can ,so it leaves a gap of making it possible

[fierce moth]

Zero definition let me worry about "if void includes xxxxx"

[ebon meadow]

They good or bad is another thing but the question is is it possible? It is

Good a bad ,u can

[fierce moth]

If void includes xxxx, do xxxx must can grow on scale to define spread

....Sigh, infinite questions

Void = ?
Spread = ?
Pet = Ornaments and decorations

[ebon meadow]

The limitation is the mechanic that game give u ,it has borders of limit how u can bring it farther it's up to u under the mechanic it allows u to

World(brain) wide no limit game wise ,what ever the limits the game set u to

[fierce moth]

I need limit.... 😅

[ebon meadow]

U don't

Ur limit is what is holding u to make things better ,faster efficient

[fierce moth]

I never live in a world without limit... So it's confusing to see something without any limit

[ebon meadow]

This is Poe issue where we have curtain things that can carry u thru the game ,the reality is there's no limitaion

U can make the most stupid build like pizza totems or flame dash tottems that woul carry u thru all content ,Ur part is making it possible

[fierce moth]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[ebon meadow]

^ perfect example ,there is no limit to imagination

The tools that u given is the only limit to u

[fierce moth]

what example

pizza totems? Remind me of salami man

[ebon meadow]

The middle part of the sentence ,do you want to develop as a person dedicated to one thing

[ebon meadow]

Meme builds that are constantly mention ,but the meme was born from a base of something

[fierce moth]

#📚┃off-topic message

[ebon meadow]

Pizza totems is a build in Poe that existed since what 2010

[fierce moth]

we're on different channel

I didn't play quite much poe yet

[ebon meadow]

It's not just Poe it's a general thing

Wow ,Poe, le ,diablo ,I can go for ever

Games that give us things to create something ,doesn't have to be good but it sinks in thought and time

U can create something in games ,but the games gives us tools to use our imagination

Look at league of legends and why it became popular

Without going in games like conter strike

I can make a build in call of duty lmao

[fierce moth]

🤔 Yes, it's the biggest difference between Chinese education and western education...

We are trained as a part of a group, have the own idea is bad, must follow the most people blablablabla

[ebon meadow]

It's not wrong ,u base it ideas of stuff that is confirmed

[fierce moth]

Culture strike lol

[ebon meadow]

Yea post that sentence on Reddit and u get so much heat ....lmao

[fierce moth]

I'm not sure if I have the own idea is safe always or not

[ebon meadow]

Example I was one of few that played five- seven for gun rounds for years "now" suddenly it's best of single shot guns u can get

[ebon meadow]

No we don't

Life is the experience that shows I to stand the ground of I am right

[fierce moth]

My ideas always be ignored in groups when I studied in schools so I prefer not to express my ideas

[ebon meadow]

Nothing wrong with that I just need people to explain me why is it good

[fierce moth]

Of course, they're ignored by people freuqently on social medias too.

Can't be seen lol

[ebon meadow]

I have a same thing ,BUT. I have experienced and years of work that allow me to say . You are wrong there's better way of doing things and this is why

[fierce moth]

Back to this key word, to be seen

[ebon meadow]

I always worked with people that older than me and never question why . You get to point that u have to put u foot down and say I m right

Example my boss Wright codes programs that used all over the country. Nd I still corect him sometimes

He makes contability programs for business across the country and I still look at it sometime and ask him why u limiting Ur self

[junior stirrup]

Made me think of this scene from Life of Brian: https://youtu.be/KHbzSif78qQ

[lean fiber]

I intentionally left the rules very simple for the contest to allow for imaginations to run wild 🙂

[neon sigil]

Contest? I missed that

[fierce moth]

it's the problem. I have troubles on understanding simple rules unfortunately

Can you give us the definition of void and spread?

[lean fiber]

https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/introducing-void-pets-forged-from-nothingness/80950

[lean fiber]

The void is in Last Epoch--what kind of definition do you need? lol

It's all related to the void in the game so base it off that and how it spreadss there

[fierce moth]

It's quite easy to be off-topic without definition.

Can I think void as different stuff out of le or I must follow le's settings?

[lean fiber]

Follow the idea of the void in Last Epoch

Otherwise it doesn't make sense contextually

[fierce moth]

What count as follow the idea of void in le?

[junior oyster]

It's an april fools joke

[lean fiber]

THere is a contest related to it Fane

[lean fiber]

Not sure what you mean

Gonna be afk for an hour - Got an important meeting to focus on

[fierce moth]

I guess it mean void must relate to something

Like special shapes and special colours

Then spread mean I must follow special paths like I must do xxx in 1st step, xxx in 2nd step, xxx in 3nd step

[lean fiber]

The void is shown on our art in the post...

[fierce moth]

Lots of traps are hided, so EHG can say "it's not the artwork we asked for"🤔

Your art. What I seen is purple tentacles. Void = purple tentacles?

[lean fiber]

Yes, that's what the void looks like. It's all over our game

[fierce moth]

So the part we can free our talent is imagine where can purple tentacles grow from?

[junior oyster]

Probably any weird like monster you can make

[lean fiber]

The whole thing can be free, it doesn't have to be purple if you don't want it to be, it is your imagination on how you want your void pet to look.

You want a rainbow void, go for it, you want a normal void on any object you love, go for it

[fierce moth]

😂 ....You're go back to that

[lean fiber]

I've explained all I can

If it were me, I'd focus on creating a unique object with the void as it looks in the rock pictures

What object would be fun to have the void growing out of it? A coffee mug, to me, is hilarious 😄

Or a baseball bat instead of nails it could have void around it

Void baseball bat lets gooo

[fierce moth]

what I understand so far:
pet = ornament and decoration
void = It must be tentacles, but it can bring with any colours
spread = tentacles are flooding

Anything I missed?

[lean fiber]

pet = any object

or animal, or person, etc.

void = should be like what is in Last Epoch

spread, that's up to you on how you want to show it growing and spreading

[fierce moth]

Confirmed, not as same as what the video say

Need to test how to make tentacles then. It's the first step

[vagrant topaz]

Orobyss?

[junior stirrup]

Yeah, sure. Just mentioned it as it came to mind and it's been ages since I watched Monty Python.

On the subject - one of my most proud feats is mentoring an Indian lad from around high school throughout their studies and teaching them to think for their own rather than defer to authority which is the norm in their system.

Led to a fair bit of conflict with their lecturers, but they blossomed into an excellent developer in the industry, set apart from the masses.

[ebon meadow]

Lurking xdd

[neon sigil]

I got my lich build up and running.
Ignores mechanics on t3 julra. Gotta tank it up a bit to make it ignore it on t4 tho.

[twilit mountain]

Nice :) glad you're having fun

[placid yarrow]

Robbing a winery when you stumble upon this 😭

poor Loretz

LOL

God damn loretz made barrels of this stuff

Wait lmaoooooo I just realized I'm robbing the wineyard of a dude who gives you a quest to steal the wine recipe of his rival because his wine sucks x)

[jovial bane]

xD

[neon sigil]

working on an entry for the LE competition. :v

void poultry

[neon sigil]

a bit meaty, so spoiler, but it be done. just gotta clean it up.

GIant roving poultry have once been a staple of many, but with the rise of the empire and it's fall to the void these fowl undead now roam the land.

[ebon meadow]

how is it almoast 4 am and i just got home xdd

i finished work at 8 pm

end me theres 8 hours of work tomorrow

[junior stirrup]

That's one helluva commute.

I've got Friday and Monday off, long nice weekend.

[fierce moth]

Chicken + toucan?

[fierce moth]

it confused me because no tentacles from your chicken + toucan

[desert jasper]

it has the extra eye on chest

[fierce moth]

yes, but Derrick said void = tentacles

definition of void is quite confusing

btw... I checked the model, tentacles looks like branches more

That's tentacles I understand (it's from a poe fan art competition)

[desert jasper]

the tentacles are just an example

Like you can look at the Groles in chapter.. 2?
They just go purple
And bats are still bats
But then you can look at the buildings or floor in general having slime and other things all over it

[vagrant topaz]

I feel like "Void" in LE is about corruption and stuff growing weirdly on top of smth else

[desert jasper]

Yeah, I think that would be a good way to put it

[fierce moth]

I never see any contest without any rules until EHG release one. It's too suspicious lol

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4540260/Project_Ants/
I never play metroidvania games. Now, a 3D metroidvania game is coming wow

[indigo shadow]

Metroidvania

do you want to hate yourself with difficult metroidvania? Outlands

https://store.steampowered.com/app/305050/Outland/

[placid yarrow]

Sheeesh

[jovial bane]

the armor in KCD2 is so good

ngl I started disliking most "fantasy-slop" armors after this game

but my personal irk became full plate armors, but no guns in the setting xD

In fact I wish more fantasy settings were closer to Warhammer FB

[placid yarrow]

A game with really nice pixel art medieval armour is stoneshard, It is a fantasy setting but fairly grounded overall

[jovial bane]

oh yeah, I really like armor in Stoneshard

it's a great game

[desert jasper]

Those helmets look like something that Rocketman would draw tbh

[jovial bane]

a bit of a torture device, but still really fun

[placid yarrow]

Heh

They just released an update, it's been pretty good

[jovial bane]

I struggle to get hundreds of hours in one game xD

[placid yarrow]

overhauled the lighting system and stuff

[jovial bane]

yup, I've read the patch notes

but rn I'm captured by Tainted Grail, kind of. I'm fighting lack of energy for gaming in general, but grail is slowly progressing

[placid yarrow]

Yeah I've been playing kcd2, got me pretty hooked

[jovial bane]

I'm amazed that game world in this game is such a tiny piece of Avalon compared to what they've shown in board game. It's like comparing Morrowind to entire Tamriel

I need to finish KCD2, kind of needed a break because I got overwhelmed by it in "act 2"

The game is massive

It feels like two games packed together

[placid yarrow]

I'd really recommend the legacy of the forge dlc, it really helps

if you didn't already have it that is

[jovial bane]

I do, but I have the "skyrim issue" when I try to reach Kutenberg on the map.
I travel in its direction, get distracted by quests and random activities aaaand suddenly I'm farther away from Kutenberg than when I've started traveling 🤣

[placid yarrow]

lmao

[jovial bane]

oh dear lord, it has EA on april 30th https://store.steampowered.com/app/3105440/Heroes_of_Might_and_Magic_Olden_Era/

somehow this seemingly mid year in gaming is dropping banger after banger

[junior oyster]

Time to confuse kirra some more.
https://sts2.untapped.gg/en/cards/void-form

[placid yarrow]

This card is lit ngl

lets you do some nasty stuff

[junior oyster]

But the funny thing is this card has no purple or tentacles xd

[jovial bane]

but every single time I get it is when I already have bunch of cheap stuff, and playing enough Fires in magic taught me that you cannot really use cheap stuff with it 🤣

[junior oyster]

Honestly out of all the forms so far I think I like snake form the most

It's nowhere near as good as wraith form but with a good sly deck it hits hard

[jovial bane]

idk, I think snake might be better but needs a shell to really shine

and you can replace snake form with other finishers

[junior oyster]

I was able to beat a10 door with ease

[neon sigil]

mornin folks

[jovial bane]

hey

[junior oyster]

You just need a lot of ways to make energy and/sly

[jovial bane]

you are basically playing storm in magic

[neon sigil]

one of the things they dont tell you about beards is how often you accidentally bite it

[jovial bane]

all you want is drawing card and netting energy in the process

[junior oyster]

No idea about magic

[jovial bane]

Basically in magic there is an archetype called storm, plays similar to snake form.
Imagine overpriced cards, but you get to copy it for every previously played card this turn

that's storm

[junior oyster]

I only play single player games but sts2 happens to just have coop

[jovial bane]

for example "deal 1 damage storm"

same principle, you just do bunch of nothing drawing cards and making energy to copy that spell for lethal

[junior oyster]

That kinda feels like the other silent power when you draw cards lol

[jovial bane]

ye

[junior oyster]

I love sneck form with that power and master planner

[jovial bane]

for example storm in magic especially loves card that is "2 mana, add 2 mana draw a card"

once you reduce the cost of it to 1 you are cooking with gas

Pretty much why I enjoy Necrobinder and Silent so much. Just bunch of nonsense drawing cards and doing ridiculous things xD

[fierce moth]

morning

[sweet blade]

@neon sigil Sure, we can continue the discussion here.

My general take on the separation of PoE1 and PoE2 has everything to do with management styles and the fact that Ruthless, no matter what they said, WAS indeed the blueprint for PoE2, and its very lackluster reception made them realize that their current plan would completely torpedo their player base and revenue stream.

I should probably also mention that after the Kalandra debacle, basically any trust I had in the GGG developer team disappeared. So basically every single thing they said I would start poking at.

[neon sigil]

🤔 i've only been here since necropolis, so I don't have the context for that.
But on my side of things I've seen a lot to give me trust in GGG as a developer. What was the kalandra debacle?

[sweet blade]

They HEAVILY nerfed the way loot worked, and then proceeded to gaslight the entire community into saying that they didn't for weeks before finally admitting that they did, in fact, do it, and that it was a 'simple oversight' that it didn't get into the patch notes.

You can imagine something similar would be if EHG nerfed the imprint rates, didn't mention a word about it in the patch notes, and then claimed that they didn't until... say, two weeks from now.

[neon sigil]

I think, having context would help me understand a lot of that.
Like if it was mark or some other guy at the top saying that I'd feel much more like you.

But if it was their pr dept. or the guy writing patch notes, that's just a communication issue

[sweet blade]

It was EVERYONE saying it.

And yeah, I agree with your position.

And I want to stress that it wasn't the fact that it was nerfed. It was the fact that they lied about it.

[neon sigil]

🤔 I would be miffed too if I experienced that.
but it is hard for me to believe it was intentional. I'm a firm believer of incompetence over malice. (unless it's incompetent malice)
Especially with how eager people are to attribute malice to GGG. Working in IT/networking and helping people troubleshoot as a volunteer in games has shown me just how few people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

E.g. When I did volunteer work for brawlhalla the amount of people who would just blame the servers for their own issues and call out BMG as liars and the like was a very significant chunk of the player base.

That said, I could be wrong but I can only go by what I've seen myself.

[sweet blade]

Sure... and my more general point was that if it was incompetence (they forgot to put it in the patch notes and then never referenced the line they said should have been in there), it was so incompetent that much of the backlash they received was justified. To me, incompetence is, at best, a mitigating issue. It is not a defense in itself.

I'd also point out that, given you only apparently got into this after this point, this whole scenario is one reason WHY people are 'eager' (I would say more 'expecting') to attribute malice to GGG.

[neon sigil]

Oh for sure, incompetence is not an excuse. I'm just making a point of the nuance between incompetence and malice.
Incompetence can be addressed, malice can be sinister in how deep it cna go.

[sweet blade]

Right. I can't imagine GGG intentionally trying to sink their own game. I don't think it's malice in that case. I think it's a combination of incompetence and hubris that leads to (minor) malice.

[neon sigil]

Yeah, but it was during dawn of the hunt that I felt like the whole GGG are the bad guys debate really got to me.

I was having fun, the most un fun thing of that league was how everyone around me was dooming and glooming.

[sweet blade]

Sure. NGL, I consider PoE2 a complete shitshow top to bottom, and I lay most of the issue squarely on Jonathan.

[neon sigil]

I can definitely see incompetence and hubris for sure.
It would also explain why they doubled down in the kalandra setting. E.g. We made a mistake, we didn't want to admit to it, snowball from there.

[sweet blade]

As in, I trust the 'don't you guys have phones' person from Blizzard more than I trust Jonathan. That's exactly how tone deaf and hubristic I think he is.

[neon sigil]

I like his vision, but I do think that making that vision reality is going to take compromise. And I'm not sure if johnathan is the type to compromise.

e.g. some things just feel bad. like charges and forced combo gameplay

[desert jasper]

Probably Jonathan making them decisions again

[sweet blade]

There's also history prior to Kalandra. The last time there were heavy nerfs to game systems, it was in Expedition league with mana, basically. They put it out there and tried to get out ahead of it, and the flame wars online were brutal. I was neutral to slightly siding with GGG on this. Very much 'not sure if this is going to be healthy, but I should trust GGG'. What I think GGG learned was that nerfs should be concealed to avoid the shitstorm. So when Kalandra came around....

And there's also the Archnemesis Saga going on in between those two.

[sweet blade]

Just an example here of this.

[neon sigil]

honestly, that could be a fair point.
Those shit storms usually lead to death threats and the like. It's why they don't have a public facing pr person anymore. It was bad.

[sweet blade]

I am happy some people like The Vision(tm). I personally don't think that there's enough people who like it to sustain the game, GGG realized that, and why the endgame doesn't AT ALL resemble The Vision(tm).

[sweet blade]

Not exactly why I heard Bex left, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[neon sigil]

Honestly I think the end game not resembling the vision is because the vision requires careful balance to be good. It becomes exponentially harder to do that the furtheri nto the endgame you go.

It's a huge time investment that isn't worth it for an unfinished game.

[desert jasper]

Just 6 divs away from Svalinn

[neon sigil]

honestly it's why I think the vision might not make it to full release, because that careful balance is gonna be a lot of maintenance to keep up.

[sweet blade]

Then they released it too soon. When they more or less bragged that they shifted from completing the campaign to building an endgame (because of LE and D4, basically)... they should have put the time in to make it fit their vision.

[sweet blade]

Which, frankly, I think they underestimated. The institutional arrogance at GGG is breathtaking.

[desert jasper]

They might think they have loyal enough playerbase that will throw money at them no matter what they do

[sweet blade]

My biggest issue with them, honestly, is that, as a data analysis guy, I can easily recognize confirmation bias in analytics. I have never EVER seen GGG look at data and come to any conclusion about that data that doesn't fit their expected result.

[neon sigil]

I mean, yeah, underestimating things is a recurring theme in dev, and I think anyone looking from the outside in can see how far overscoped they are.

But thankfully it seems they are stable enough to see it through. Instead of most companies who would jump ship if this happened.

[sweet blade]

Which is an example of institutional arrogance, is it not? 😉

[desert jasper]

It is

[sweet blade]

GGG will see it through IMO because of their arrogance. They're not going to be able to admit that it was (or became) a deeply flawed product. My main concern is that, as kinda was happening, PoE2 sucked up so many resources that PoE1 is in danger of dying.

[neon sigil]

metrics fail to be good metrics when they're used for a goal.
My father was the head of logistics at the pentagon. He said studying stuff like that was like water. The more you tried to grasp and fix the quicker it would flow into other avenues of corruption.

[sweet blade]

I'd want you to unpack that first statement a bit more. I think I have a pretty strong reaction to it, but whether good or bad I can't say with just the one line. And yeah, I'm an IE... this is something I can speak to. 🙂

[neon sigil]

on that note, I think it's good that they've finally admitted that splitting the teams was a bad idea.
The split focused hurt both games.

[desert jasper]

Oh yea, wanted to say a bit more about the Kalandra league thing
People weren't exactly happy about the idea that Kalandra is a.. bird thingy
to put it lightly
They had to come out and say that it's not how she actually looks like

[sweet blade]

Mark is someone I am somewhat neutral towards. I do respect Octavian, because I've interacted with him when he was a streamer. The best thing Jonathan could do was never show his smirking face again, IMO. 😉

[sweet blade]

Mirage League is more faithful to the concept of Kalandra than that Harpy.

[neon sigil]

🤔 no, I have a pretty strong reaction to it.
I think once you hit a corporate level when you use metrics they always become justification and cause problems.

E.g. when I worked at costco, we'd have a metric for time spent on machines. This created waste and got innocent people in trouble because people would leave the machines on during breaks to keep the hours up. Anyone who didn't do that would be written up.

[sweet blade]

Ah, metrics as a way to enforce policy? Yeah, that never tends to work well.

[desert jasper]

Mark knows what he's doing tbh
He is very much into poe
I just kinda hate how it feels that he always views things through lense of being support guardian

But it's miles better than Jonathan "I don't play any end game at all" Rogers

[sweet blade]

I really couldn't care if Jonathan plays the game at all or not. The issue appears to be that he doesn't listen to anyone who says something he disagrees with.

That, combined with the fact that he doesn't play his own game, has some terrifying implications.

[desert jasper]

Yeah see
I just think that since he has that vision like
How he'd be fine without any trading at all through the campaign because he salvages every piece of gear etc
And I wouldn't be surprised if the end game rework for poe2 was put back because of he thinks it's not important because he doesn't play it

[sweet blade]

I think it's much more likely that it's just not coming out the way he likes.

I might look into PoE2 again once the Templar and/or Shadow releases, but very likely not. It's just such a damaged product.

[desert jasper]

Oh sweet
Div orb & frac orb from shipment

I'm most likely going to look at next league for poe2
really depends what's coming if i'll play it or not

[sweet blade]

Yeah, I basically rage-quit Mirage when I lost a Tempering Orb to a disconnect while running out of a Grand Heist. Not blaming GGG for that, obv, but such a terrible moment.

I played 0.1 a bit. Enough to realize that the vaunted 'good campaign play' didn't stand up to alt-itis. Looked at 0.2 notes and said nah. Didn't even LOOK at 0.3. Druid and 0.4 I looked at, but just couldn't bring myself to play.

(I should note as well that I got the Early Access key for free, so I don't have sunk costs one way or ther other.)

[desert jasper]

Yeah 0.2 was a disaster, I feel
Like drop player power by over half in almost every build, some by 80%
and then giving monsters 4x more hp, some even 8x

It's a lot better now but still uhh

I honestly miss crafting bench

[sweet blade]

And poor melee. A lot of that might be perception, but when you release a game with... what, TWO melee weapon types...? Melee may be (or was) in a bad way because of low weapon selection, but they decided to release it that way, you know?

Yeah, the ridiculous overemphasis on player power coming from nondeterministic sources is also a massive turnoff.

[desert jasper]

Yup
And how most slams don't benefit from action speed or attack speed

[sweet blade]

Frankly, LE may be too deterministic (it's more 'deterministic until it's VERY not' now), but PoE2 is just... awful.

[neon sigil]

honestly I'm pretty upset about the fact that melee is pigeonholed so hard rn.
it needs more variety

[sweet blade]

Well, I frankly don't think you're going to get it any time soon.

[desert jasper]

I was looking forward to traps being released
But apparently they're not same as they're in poe1
but they're weapons with like... delayed activation and what not

[sweet blade]

The Holy Skills showing up in Mirage heavily suggest (to me) that Templar is the next class being released in PoE2.

[sweet blade]

Not the same, but I am still interested in seeing them. They'll likely be completely terrible or stupidly OP.

I'd say PoE1 trap gameplay is about the furthest thing you can be from The Vision that I wouldn't be surprised if they get cut entirely.

[desert jasper]

I just wish poe1 traps actually got some love
but no

[sweet blade]

Ever since that 'maybe possible potential' leak happened, I have to wonder how true it was.

Traps are quite hard to balance, IMO.

[desert jasper]

So are mines

[sweet blade]

That playstyle in general, I'd say.

Of course, I've played PoE1 for... a while. I have seen a lot come and go.

I'll note, of course, that making Traps a weapon type is another shift towards nondeterministic power.

[warped wren]

Trap speed needs to be a more easily available stat

[sweet blade]

I assume that they're phasing it out.

And/or waiting to put in traps in PoE2 (if they do) before buffing traps in PoE1. Seems to be their approach these days.

[desert jasper]

Just got this from stacked deck

[warped wren]

Unethical

[desert jasper]

Yeah
I only had 1 stacked deck
Got the funds for the svalinn from that

[desert jasper]

Svalinn feels preetty good

[neon sigil]

Woo, you did it

[desert jasper]

Tbh I would've funded it today or tomorrow anyway

[neon sigil]

yeah with the progress you've been making.
Still cool to see though, grats

[junior oyster]

Meanwhile I can't get the items I want in d3

[desert jasper]

Honestly it kinda feels
Filthy getting House of Mirrors from a single stacked deck

[neon sigil]

the new eterra monthly just confirms their concept art process.
Full renders like we thought

[desert jasper]

Ohno

[fierce moth]

I find myself good at be abstract, yes

First time to draw tantacles & draw something by lines only

[desert jasper]

Also got this from 1 lab run

easy 5 div

[fierce moth]

More and more abstract hhhhh

@hot crown I don't think you can't draw something cool if you know how to use lines, come on :)

I find my mini tablet don't bother me to release my creative skills, cool

[hot crown]

...I think some part of the context has been lost in translation here 😅

[fierce moth]

No, I speak that in English directly. No google translation

[fierce moth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlkMSWywqQ8 You can follow this video if you want to learn how to draw tentacles. I'm inspired by that anyways

Too simple these lines for me so I think maybe I can change a way

style issue

[neon sigil]

[abstract karma]

the bone it is

[neon sigil]

The Bone

[fierce moth]

https://tips.clip-studio.com/en-us/articles/6797
Oh this tentacles tutorial is more detailed

[sand wigeon]

then i don’t think your understanding was very fluid because it means… nothing basically

your english isn’t the best, kirra. can you try rephrasing it because i’m genuinely curious what you meant

[twilit mountain]

I pulled a double corrupted MB card the other day. I poofed it lol

[fierce moth]

I mean he can do that too

I don't know which type of tentacles Shadow prefer though

[neon sigil]

🫃 I'm kinda burned out on LE and Poe atm.
Ig i gotta live my life or something.

[fierce moth]

But you still playing le

[sand wigeon]

download arknights endfield w me

[twilit mountain]

Hero Siege season 9 tomorrow

[sand wigeon]

play This Is Not A Game

[abstract karma]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4249100/Resident_Evil_1996/

They did already... >.>
Now i want port to Silent hill 1 since i dont have console or searching for some good emulator

[neon sigil]

what's the game about? google just shows me images of promo scenes

[neon sigil]

OH! I forgot. Despite being on the hs discord yesterday

[sand wigeon]

it’s a hack and slash mmo gacha game set in the arknights universe

you play as the endministrator, head of the enfield operation, after losing your memory

[neon sigil]

that sounds horrible.
But I'm here for it.

[hot crown]

More like factory simulator if you ask me.

[twilit mountain]

Arknights is one of the few gacha games that 1) isn't overly predatory and 2) actually has decent writing

[abstract karma]

arent gacha enslavers for life if you dont swipe ?

[sand wigeon]

why does it sound horrible!

[twilit mountain]

Endfield continues that track record

[sand wigeon]

never spent a cent on any gacha game lol

[hot crown]

I juggle three of 'em, f2p everywhere. It's manageable.

[neon sigil]

In the same way that trash web novels are.
But the guilty pleasure of enjoying them anyways

[twilit mountain]

There are a few that are very lenient. Arknights, Limbus Company, Reverse 1999

[sand wigeon]

but it’s not trash… or a guilty pleasure…

i’m pretty critical of gacha games and arknights + arknights endfield are genuinely some of the better options

[abstract karma]

welp i've ver player one - early version of Genshin..
Then started gacha boom and less proper RPG for me RPG gamer and it got me futher away from gachas

[neon sigil]

I've had some bad experiences with gatcha that I still love.
mmo is kinda the same story.

[sand wigeon]

amongst primarily limbus company

[twilit mountain]

Genshin is probably one of the most dogshit gachas around for every metric

[neon sigil]

remember when 2d creature collector gachas were popular on mobile?
They kinda just printed a ton of money and shut down.

[hot crown]

I quite enjoy wuwa, especially latest story chapters.

[sand wigeon]

(what sets these apart is extreme favoring for f2p, regular free give-outs for premium currencies along with generally good gameplay and good writing)

[abstract karma]

mmo era ended..
New generation just grows up on different gernes and focus in online games..
And corporates shifted integrations of these things to newer mmo which even futher denegerates it >.>

[sand wigeon]

yeah ‘cause mmo’s suck

ff14 and wow are still very popular

but most people, as it has always been, do not have time for mmo’s

[hot crown]

So is gw2.

[junior oyster]

Damn I know it's dead but oof

[sand wigeon]

yeah guild wars too

and rs

[twilit mountain]

I really don't know what you'd want out of an MMO that isn't covered under WoW, FF14, ESO, or GW2

[hot crown]

GW2 is quite a decent game actually.

[sand wigeon]

and eso

[neon sigil]

honestly that first point hits too close to home.
I miss having new games in genres I enjoy.

It makes me remember my grandfather who'd just watch re-runs of old black and white westerns. The same thing, over and over.

[sand wigeon]

like the genre is still very much alive

[abstract karma]

hard to imagine that it for me like a few years that GW2 was considered as any kind of bigger mmo.. now its one of top lol

[sand wigeon]

but i’ve noticed a lot of younger folk like me begin to prefer single player games

[neon sigil]

gw is in the top?!

[sand wigeon]

whether it be from developed disability (saw this amongst others, seeing it amongst myself now) or just intense work hours leaving little room for consistent hobbying

[hot crown]

I know I quit MMOs because wow got too ridiculous too fast, and in GW2 I just felt alone.

Same with lineage2.

[abstract karma]

"Dark patterns arise"

[sand wigeon]

i stopped playing them because they were expensive

can’t rly afford expansions or monthly subscriptions

[neon sigil]

I grew up with great single player games.
So many of them can't even be found anymore let alone bought or played.

old pc gaming has a big preservation issue that consoles didn't face.

[abstract karma]

L2 pay to play era.. F.. i'm old

[sand wigeon]

dw i have a physical collectors edition of baldur’s gate 2

still

[twilit mountain]

Gimme 5 years, I'll have to quit like 80% of my games when my hands give out

[sand wigeon]

and like five copies of golden sun of super nintendo

oh wait sry

on gba

[neon sigil]

noice.
But I miss games like Dark orbit, the original not the mmo, there was a metroidvania about dwarves and fairies, and so many other cool puzzle or rpg style games.

[sand wigeon]

one of my favorite games as a kid was ghosts and goblins

i think i had issues

[abstract karma]

ESO such nightmare for ES fan..
Welp with bethesda now shifting developing to 3rd companies like in oblivion remake i doubt we will get any good ES game ever again..

Probably will wait on something like Tainted Grail again

[neon sigil]

one of my favorite developers use to send back up copies of games by mail if you ever needed it.
He started business before you could even take credit card payments online!

[sand wigeon]

anyway i think we’re at a point now where games that would be hailed as The Best Of All Time go mostly unrecognized now

thanks to just how many options there are

cough Blue Prince cough

[sand wigeon]

skyrim is the best elder scrolls game yeah idc go away

[desert jasper]

I didn't dare gamble it

[neon sigil]

I feel like there is so many more options now, but it's also far more shallow and less variety.
Like there's a dozen vampire survivor clones coming out all at once, but some genres go multiple years without a release.

[sand wigeon]

as if asking an external studio to make a remaster is exactly foreign to the gaming industry lmao

[abstract karma]

Morrowind was best ES it was only proper time where you actually had RPG elements 😄

[sand wigeon]

morrowind is like. a bad game

i love it!

[abstract karma]

If i just compare RPG immersion between III x IV x V its just weird how simplified these newer and newer editions became

[sand wigeon]

but it’s not good under a modern lens

[neon sigil]

yeah going to morrowind from oblivion was hard.

[abstract karma]

Theny wait on Skywind in 2035

[desert jasper]

I've found that people who love morrowind have rose tinded glasses
They already know literally everything about the game
going in as a beginner
oh yea, I sure love missing all my hits against a rat

[sand wigeon]

not to mention some of the simplification of the games was intentional given the development of their community and creation kit

[neon sigil]

didn't skyblivion just come out?

[sand wigeon]

people use “modding isn’t a reason” regularly, when todd howard has talked about how they simplified the game quite a lot to allow their creation kit more flexibility

[neon sigil]

yeah the hit chance in 3rd person was a terrible idea.
Definitely a flaw of the times

[sand wigeon]

and that flexibility has kept skyrim and fallout 4 vibrantly alive for ages

[abstract karma]

really ? somehow missed the message then - welp lately i have too work

[sand wigeon]

also, not everyone wants a deep complex game.

my father does not need to get home from fourteen hours of work to play his favorite game, skyrim, and then have to grapple with intense rpg elements or complex stat systems lol

complex games aren’t for everyone

[neon sigil]

ope, not yet, it was stated for 2025 but looks like it got shifted to sometime this year

[twilit mountain]

I love complex games!

When they're documented properly and make sense. And a lot of old games aren't.

[neon sigil]

Complexity is rarely the issue in games like that, it's approachability.

As well as approachability after a break.

For ex. Dwarf fortress was often infamous for how complex it was but was a massive hit with more casual markets when they gave it some official art and added tutorials.

[twilit mountain]

It's pure luck I had people to help me learn when I started PoE, if I didn't I wouldn't be playing it now.

[sand wigeon]

the only people i have ever heard talk about dwarf fortress are people who grew up with dwarf fortress

[abstract karma]

neither new ones.. They have mostly likely quests pointers and less lore than one written book

[sand wigeon]

genuinely

[sand wigeon]

skyrim’s lore is so deep we are literally still theorizing about it in 2026

[abstract karma]

yea read it right now

[sand wigeon]

and NEW THEORIES are coming out for it

and that’s not including ESO lore

[twilit mountain]

You need to genuinely shut up, man. Every sentence you say makes me evaluate you as stupider and stupider.

[abstract karma]

well can we say skyrim is "new game" tho ? its quite old

[neon sigil]

And it got strangled in fo4.
Devs were exposed for literally asking employees to just put ideas in an idea jar and implementing them as is.

[sand wigeon]

that was for side quests, yes

but fallout 4 also has had deep ramifications on the lore

[desert jasper]

I didn't
Tbh I did start playing back in 2013... but I was really bad at it for a very long time

[sand wigeon]

the story of fallout 4 is terrible due to poor development

but the lore is good

bethesda has always had better environmental writer’s and designers than they have had dialogue or quest writers

[neon sigil]

you good deias?

[twilit mountain]

Very start of 2017 here. 3.0 babyyyyy

[sand wigeon]

no we hate hersik

[twilit mountain]

Yes I just hate people who say stupid shit.

[sand wigeon]

he’s been transphobic in the past too so

also he constantly engages in bad faith

[neon sigil]

oh uh, I see.
Didn't realize we got so heated

[twilit mountain]

Oh I'm not heated

[sand wigeon]

i don’t think she’s heated

deias just speaks her mind lol

[desert jasper]

I remember playing like
Harbinger league
got a mirror shard drop and 2 or 3 fishing rods
friend asked if he could have them
Gave them to him. never saw him again

[neon sigil]

no no, like the topic in general.

[twilit mountain]

Send them to the Starfall Crater and seal the entrance

[abstract karma]

idk what was on my message even stupid - new games are mostly made to be simple these day.. so

[sand wigeon]

have you heard of Blue Prince

or Rain World

or Animal Well

[twilit mountain]

Wait are there legacy fishing rod mods?

[desert jasper]

The worst thing is
I know where he lives

[neon sigil]

no, no and no.
Are they good?

[sand wigeon]

totally no complex games right.

[twilit mountain]

LMAO

[sand wigeon]

Blue Prince is the best video game I have ever played

[twilit mountain]

They are all masterpieces.

[sand wigeon]

is it my favorite? no

[junior oyster]

I had forgotten PCGamer had StS2 as the most anticipated game of 2026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlmDB5QnckY

[sand wigeon]

but it is by far the best

[twilit mountain]

All three of those games are an absolute pinnacle of making complex and deep games with secrets and game knowledge abound, and making it still be approachable.

[neon sigil]

gonna give em a look, thanks

[desert jasper]

But I don't really hold ill will against him.
I was mad about it when I later learned about the value
but ehh... you know

[sand wigeon]

not to mention other games that remain complex like Stoneshard, Barony, Duskers, Shadows of Doubt, Endling, The Long Dark, Travelling At Night, etc

all of these games are extremely complex

“no complex games” literally who are you hersik.

maybe look around, the gaming industry is more alive and vibrant than it has EVER been

[twilit mountain]

Blue Prince is probably the best puzzle "roguelite" of all time if I had to pick one. It's so well made and has so much depth that the community is still figuring out puzzles and we're over year past its release

[jovial bane]

Blue Prince is pretty damn good, I think it falls apart a little bit once you start doing "real puzzles" rather than exploring just the roguelite and trying to understand it

[sand wigeon]

endling is one of the best socioanarchist political pieces i have ever played about mankind’s effects on the natural world and how we too will suffer from our destruction of the land that allowed us to grow

[jovial bane]

But that's about it

Falls apart might be a strong word

[twilit mountain]

It gets a little ethereal, you start having to think outside the game a decent bit

[sand wigeon]

and no, socioanarchist does not mean “haha anarchy rules kill everyone”

[jovial bane]

Mmm, but basically it becomes a different game, much more puzzle focused

It's not bad, but if someone bounces off it at this point I'd get it

[twilit mountain]

It's very heavily inspired by an old puzzle book, which is why it delves so hard into the puzzle aspect later in

[sand wigeon]

(that book is Maze)

[jovial bane]

yup

[sand wigeon]

also everyone should play the Steve Jackson’s Sorcery! games

[jovial bane]

actually one could say at this point you hit a difficulty cliff

[sand wigeon]

they are one of the best book to game adaptations i’ve ever seen

[abstract karma]

guy which don't play 2D games / pure logic focused game since quite long time ago ?
I've said many times that i'm mostly RPG focus - aka games similar to Arx Fatalis to Gothic as soon on..
or games with lore but still RPG close by) Metrovania never kind of mine thing (never late to start right..)

And to be honest as you dont want admit a lot of newer generation of players also don't play these
(literally you can see on public transprations which most kids plays these days..)

[sand wigeon]

and like all of that is not to mention the thriving development of games like The Last of Us, which are critically acclaimed

that genre has been continued strongly in things like God of War and Plague Tale

[jovial bane]

modern design has a lot of rough edges filed off, some old games are excellent torture devices

[sand wigeon]

so maybe instead of making broad sweeping statements about things you outright claim to not know here, you should admit you don’t go out of your comfort zone and in fact know very little

“kids nowadays” doesn’t exist.

[jovial bane]

incredibly fun, 10/10, I hate this stupid game

[sand wigeon]

that’s not how people work.

one of the people i am closest to in life is a sixteen year old i’ve known since he was eleven and this “kid” is more well read and studied than you likely ever have been

i know kids who’ve only ever touched video games once and i know kids who can program entire games

“kids” are not some class of existence. they’re people. and people vary.

[sweet blade]

Oh dear.

[abstract karma]

as much you want go to deeper in this or calling me stupid - statistics matter
Ofc you can know a lot of bring people around you because you search for them or going in similar groups at least
IT doesnt change fact that it's still minority in most of cases

[sand wigeon]

i am not calling you stupid. i’m saying that you are stuck in your ways. if you feel stupid thanks to what i’ve said, i encourage you to analyze why you feel that way

[sweet blade]

Modern discussion++

[sand wigeon]

i meet lots of people because i’m an extreme extrovert and try to speak with lots of different people from all over the world of all ages and all walks of life, because i like seeing new perspectives

[twilit mountain]

They're not calling you stupid. I am. I'm calling you stupid. Ignorant. Genuinely buffoonish. And I do this because I don't believe there is value in engaging a discussion on someone who can't see "kids" as equals.

[sand wigeon]

and unlike you i have actually listened

i have met children far smarter than any adult and i think it is always worth remembering, no matter your own age or experiences, that these children are the ones who will be leading me in the future

there’s so much studied evidence that children are becoming smarter than the previous generations, not that they’re becoming dumber

and if you think that these children, who love video games, don’t also love complex ones? that’s just silly

[jovial bane]

deep games, but yeah

complex games are very niche

[sand wigeon]

there are too many complex games out there to count, you just don’t look for them, because as far as i can tell you like complaining and feeling curmudgeonly

[jovial bane]

not that the difference matters much

[sand wigeon]

but they’re not

[jovial bane]

they are

[sand wigeon]

Blue Prince sold so much

[jovial bane]

blue prince is deep, not complex

[sand wigeon]

Rain World is one of the most famous games of all time

[sweet blade]

I mean, bearhugger is clearly differentiating between complex games and deep games.

[jovial bane]

complex game is dwarf fortress

songs of syx

[sand wigeon]

…Blue Prince is definitely complex

[sweet blade]

Sounds like some definitions are in order. 😉

[junior oyster]

Would 4x games be considered complex?

[jovial bane]

complex game throws crapload of systems at you and requires figuring oout everything, so like POE1 from the get go

[sweet blade]

I remember watching a board game review channel's video on the difference between complexity and depth, and I thought it was well done. Wish I could find it at this point.

[junior oyster]

Or turn based in general?

[sand wigeon]

Dead by Daylight is very popular and that’s very complex

[sand wigeon]

no that’s just a bad game.

[jovial bane]

[sand wigeon]

lol

[sweet blade]

A genre isn't tied to a given complexity level.

Most of them do tend to be complex, though, IMO.

[sand wigeon]

saying “you have to figure everything out on your own and that’s what makes it complex” is silly, tutorials have been standard, taught practices for the gaming industry for a while now

[jovial bane]

well yeah, IMO PoE1 sucks but ragebait aside complex is lots of mechanics at once to figure out. Deep is how many you uncover over time

[sand wigeon]

and a good tutorial is one of the hallmarks of a good game

[jovial bane]

tutorials in game like Dwarf Fortresss lmao

[junior oyster]

I know but just wondering with things like strategy invovled. What to research, where to go, who to fight/make peace with etc

Quite a lot in civ 5 imo

[jovial bane]

usually they are, not all but usually yes

[sand wigeon]

not to mention This War of Mine was a practical success beyond any expectations

and Disco Elysium is still one of the most recognized games amongst people my age

[sweet blade]

I guess my point was that I could conceive of a simple (as opposed to complex) 4x game. Not sure it would be good, but I can think of it.

[jovial bane]

Gladius is a simple 4X game

[sand wigeon]

Slay the Princess handles complex ideas and logic while retaining its approachable surface

and that’s extremely popular

[junior oyster]

You misspelt Spire /s

[sweet blade]

I think continuing a discussion without definitions is kinda pointless once it's determined that the terms are not agreed upon.

[jovial bane]

Age of Wonders arguably is simple as well, quite deep but very easy to wrap your head around

[sand wigeon]

these terms can’t be agreed upon

they’re inherently superficial

[sweet blade]

As I am not a nominalist, I don't agree with that statement.

[sand wigeon]

every game, regardless of complexity, should be understandable and easy to wrap your head around.

if they aren’t, then that’s poor design, not a credit to their complexity

[jovial bane]

spot on, complexity often is percieved as negative thing

[sweet blade]

1, maybe. I would say that AoW4 is on the complex side of things.

[jovial bane]

but it can add a lot of depth as well

[sand wigeon]

no, complexity is not negative

[sweet blade]

I mean, you can be complex and deep.

[jovial bane]

Oxygen not Included for example is both complex and deep game

[sweet blade]

Nothing against that.

[sand wigeon]

a lack of understandability is

and complexity and a lack of understandability do not go hand in hand

[jovial bane]

ideally you weant to understand thermodynamics

[sand wigeon]

one of these is born from intention and one of these is a design flaw

[junior oyster]

That game triggers me so much I have put it in my hidden games list. Never going to install it again lol

[jovial bane]

but not quite

[abstract karma]

nope both you are
one way or another hidden in message..
(even by ridiculous arguments to note..)

Its miracle to see that from simple argument about gaming industry literally goes from old school as you saying "complex games" to more and more simplified
no matter what machine output you basically shift to deep argument about me not sorting newer generation of players on bright and stupid..

If you really dont see path of certain devolution of gaming developing (and dont just count out everything which isnt from smaller studios which yes mostly bring some good inovations or get dust from forgotten diesing) then idk but that pattern from these +15 years is quite visisble

[jovial bane]

avoid Stationeers then, it's Oxygen not Included but toss in learning programming to the skills required to play the game

[sweet blade]

Heh.

[sand wigeon]

that pattern doesn’t exist. people have definitely gotten better at designing games so that they’re more understandable, and if that’s what you mean, then that’s not a bad thing

[jovial bane]

nah, games got a lot less complex as well

[sweet blade]

I would think a good proxy for complexity in a 4x game would be the number of resources you gather/create/exploit.

[jovial bane]

beaten to death horse example is daggerfall and morrowind compared to oblivion then skyrim

[junior oyster]

Idk why but Oni reminds me of lemmings on the snes. Could never figure out what to do lool

[sweet blade]

I think the variance in game complexity has increased over time.

[sand wigeon]

oh my lord

okay i am being talked over

have a good day everyone

[jovial bane]

yeah, they are niche but there is a market for really complex games

and with it comes exploration

[sweet blade]

There's also the fact that simple advances in computing hardware allows for the creation of games more complex than was possible in the past.

[jovial bane]

idk about that, I feel like despite that some games are a bit more limiting design wise.

[sweet blade]

So the pressure of the hardware would seem to be increasing complexity, while the pressure from the human cognitive load side would be decreasing complexity.

[sand wigeon]

last thing: this is an AWFUL example. we have extremely well understood reasons as to why these games have changed in these ways, and a large part of it is the integration of the creation kit, a very intentional addition, and one that has made bethesda renowned for its community support. not to mention that oblivion still had one of the most robust spell crafting systems ever

[jovial bane]

For example we pretty much got rid of the flying in RPGs

[sand wigeon]

and games with these systems are STILL coming out

look at Spell Forge

[lethal bane]

I think we should force gamers to learn how to read

[sand wigeon]

true

[lethal bane]

Maybe make them do book reports

[sand wigeon]

yesterday i asked someone what Animal Farm was about and they said “it’s about being the pig!”

[lethal bane]

I'm genuinely worried about the literacy crisis. Gamers got it had

[sweet blade]

I mean, shouldn't we force everyone?

[sand wigeon]

<@&1161418687471956101>

already gone nvm

[sweet blade]

I wouldn't say gamers have it worse than others. Perhaps you just run into more of them?

[lethal bane]

No, gamers are worse

[sand wigeon]

no they’re definitely worse

[lethal bane]

No, I barely speak to gamers

They are genuinely worse

[sweet blade]

Not in my experience, honestly. Perhaps standards are different.

[sand wigeon]

i experience constant sexism and idiocy in gaming spheres

[jovial bane]

it's all the same

[lethal bane]

I have standards

[jovial bane]

at least from my experience ehhh

[sand wigeon]

not to mention the targeted rhetoric of things like the manosphere toward gamers

because even today people who game as their primary hobby are often socially isolated and young, making them easy prey for this dangerous rhetoric

[lethal bane]

We need to make male gamers take friendship classes, legitimately would benefit society

[sweet blade]

Well, when I have a college graduate who can't do basic reading comprehension, as in 'reading what is currently on the screen in front of them and explain it to someone', my concerns are a bit more general than 'gamers'.

[sand wigeon]

we also need to blow up 4chan

does so much terrible shit regardless of gender

[jovial bane]

dear lord

all social media

[sand wigeon]

i get called “foid” on an almost daily basis boru.

save me.

just because of my voice lol

[lethal bane]

Social media isn't the cause of illiteracy

[sweet blade]

That is far from the worst example I have.

[lethal bane]

Daaamn, it has become more common lowkey

[sand wigeon]

4chan is an awful thing for our Society (insert Joker)

[sweet blade]

Social media is not the proximal cause. I think it's indirectly causing a lot of issues.

[twilit mountain]

And slurs! T-slur, F-slur, racial slurs (yes plural). The whole platter.

[sand wigeon]

i think that older folk do tend to struggle with the idea that many young adults and children are not on social media in ANY capacity

[lethal bane]

I can point to a lotta policies and practices that have led here

[sweet blade]

Sure. Not disagreeing.

[lethal bane]

Save some slurs for the rest of us!

[sand wigeon]

because i know many young adults and children who do not touch social media at all

[jovial bane]

personally I think that's one of the causes of the problem, SM are awful

[sand wigeon]

you’re always going to frame your view with inherent bias in conversations like these

and idk why you folk can’t recognize that

[lethal bane]

Not me, I am unbiased and pure

[sweet blade]

I mean, would you consider Discord social media? I think I would.

[lethal bane]

I take showers even

[sand wigeon]

boru tell me about karl marx

[twilit mountain]

Deadlock and OW gamers throwing them all on like Thanos with the stones fr

[sand wigeon]

Every day I can feel my arm. My leg.

[sand wigeon]

it obviously is yes

[jovial bane]

yes, and there is a reason why there are certain stereotypes about discord moderators on some god forsaken channels

[lethal bane]

I actually am planning on reading some Adorno, a Marxist author, after I'm done with this book

[sand wigeon]

explain to me Karl Marx with your unbiased, pure perspective

go on.

/s

[lethal bane]

He's alright

[sweet blade]

Heh. Just pointing out it's a bit odd to say that social media is causing problems... on social media.

[lethal bane]

Lil cringe with his scientific socialism, not his fault too much

[sand wigeon]

being aware of the misgivings of something you participate in isn’t odd, it’s basic intelligence

that’s like saying i can’t be aware of my country’s problems because i live in that country

[jovial bane]

Well it is ironic, but it's ultimately all about moderation. Or rather lack of it.

[sand wigeon]

i am karl marx

[jovial bane]

As in using SM too much, not yk moderators

[sweet blade]

Ah! Okay, yeah, that can sort of make sense.

[twilit mountain]

@sand wigeonget in the silly video game so we can watch a video about numbers in a silly video game.

[lethal bane]

Tell me more about rolls of linen!

[sweet blade]

Thank you for clarifying; that was a bit unclear.

[jovial bane]

I hate that comic so much

[sand wigeon]

i’m making the cocoa you didn’t make me

then i’ll get on vr chat

[sweet blade]

That's a terrible take, honestly.

[twilit mountain]

You didn't tell me to!

[sand wigeon]

we had a whole conversation about how it sounded like a pokemon evolution

[twilit mountain]

I thought you were just making conversation

You didn't say the words "hey can you make me a cup of cocoa"

[lethal bane]

Should've interpreted it better

[sand wigeon]

i don’t converse with you, peon

you failed your rhetoric skill check

[lethal bane]

lmfao

[twilit mountain]

You made me do Pokemon trivia!

I can't do that AND interpret things!

One task!

[sand wigeon]

and now you’re saying encyclopedia and rhetoric can’t work together?

[sweet blade]

Why can't we have Pokemon quadrivia?

[sand wigeon]

they’re literally in the same skill

sigh.

[lethal bane]

I'll be off in nature again soon

[sand wigeon]

my half light is telling me to beat you to death now

[lethal bane]

I'll contemplate society and fix it from way over there

[twilit mountain]

I'm unplugging you

[lethal bane]

Me or Nicocain?

[sweet blade]

I thought it was a general plural 'you', honestly. 😉

[sand wigeon]

the disco elysium machine runs on angelic light, not my internal power source

dolores dei cannot be silenced as long as humanism still lives

[lethal bane]

Dolores Deias

Dolores DEI

DEIas

[sand wigeon]

different person

[sweet blade]

Sad god?

[sand wigeon]

john and johnathan are not the same person because they have the same names, they’re different fish i promise

[sand wigeon]

ig you could say dolores dei is rather sad yeah

The Revolution did fail after all

[lethal bane]

I don't believe you

[sand wigeon]

now the blue sky of a bluer forget-me-not reigns

humanism is on its last legs and even the idea of the franconigerian cavalry have been lost

[sweet blade]

Sometimes, I find it miraculous that anyone is believed by anyone else.

[jovial bane]

me too

[sand wigeon]

I don’t think most people here understand what I’m referencing and for some reason that makes it waaay funnier

[jovial bane]

but I'm doomer pilled, probably thanks to being slav lmao

[twilit mountain]

I understand, it's why I am laughing

[sand wigeon]

wow

[sweet blade]

Not Slav myself, but apparently I might as well be, personality-wise.

[sand wigeon]

i can’t say anything without being censored

sigh

apparently communism cannot be built in THIS SERVER

SIGH

[twilit mountain]

Kain doesn't like when we mention communism

[lethal bane]

We'll make tjis server woke

[sweet blade]

Wait, it isn't?

[lethal bane]

No.

[sand wigeon]

no lol

[jovial bane]

no

[sweet blade]

That's... scary.

[sand wigeon]

arpg’s are primarily played by asinine anti-lgbtq old men

who say sexist things like each word they type is a competition

[jovial bane]

pretty sure that's almost all video games safe for something like "cozy slop"

[lethal bane]

I see more woke statements out of Heidegger than here

[sweet blade]

Enh, I'm an exile when it comes to economic theory, so... don't have a dog in that particular fight.

[twilit mountain]

It tries to be accommodating but I have been hit with much transphobic and sexist rhetoric in here many times. I tend to only see people punished for it when they DM me slurs.

[sand wigeon]

it's not

[sweet blade]

Heh. Good to know.

[sand wigeon]

sorry how does economic theory not have relevance to the basic intrinsic respect other people deserve

watching yt videos about marathon while in vrchat at 5 pm with deias is truly smth

[junior oyster]

After about a month sts2 has finally started to die down a bit

[sand wigeon]

thank god

i have to be less careful about avoiding spoilers now

[junior oyster]

150k players right now

Eh I'm practically the only person in this server posting sts2 stuff unless you mean in other servers you are in

[sand wigeon]

i just mean the entire internet

[junior oyster]

Fair

[sand wigeon]

i don't rly feel like playing an unfinished game and i can't afford it rn so i'm trying to avoid spoilers

[junior oyster]

I'll keep that in mind

[sand wigeon]

oh, no, you don't need to adjust your behavior for me lol

i'm glad you've been posting about it, it's cool to see someone having fun

[junior oyster]

It's fine it only takes a few extra clicks to mark spoilers lol

[desert jasper]

Tbh the only thing I know about sts2 is that it has co-op

[junior oyster]

If I do forget just remind me 👀

[desert jasper]

And also friend showed me a screenshot of the map when he was playing with his 2 brothers
oh, the drawings

[junior oyster]

Too bad I can't draw but I've definitely seen some very impressive ones

Anyway I'ma hit the hay

[sand wigeon]

the co-op is by far the least interesting thing about the game to me because i dislike co-op games

which is sad because i wish i did enjoy them, it looks rly well made

[desert jasper]

I should hit the hay too, really

[junior oyster]

Ok before I go to bed I want to mention that the coop mode is probably more enjoyable than you might think but I understand if that's not your preference

And I haven't even got to try coop 🤣

[sand wigeon]

i've had tons of fun with co-p but 99% of the time i just want to play a game on my own

[junior oyster]

Yea fair

[jovial bane]

Hmm
I'm learning how to make glow effects. I think it looks fine, but could be improved ?

Camera made it darker, it might need a bit of red mixed with the orange for that extra darker orange gradient ?

[sweet blade]

Sorry, but... what is that? One of the Harbingers?

[jovial bane]

Menhir from Tainted Grail Fall of Avalon

basically stone statue with magical fire, hence the color choice

[sweet blade]

Neat, I guess. Hard to make out details, I feel.

[jovial bane]

getting the focus right is pita xD

[neon sigil]

man I struggle so hard with trad art and painting.
makes me impressed by anything

[sweet blade]

And here I'm just staring at the asterism in this gem. Anyone know a green gem that can have asterism?

[neon sigil]

huh you made me learn something new tonight.
How dare you. Also cool.

[twilit mountain]

A green gem with an asterism.... that sounds rather rare? I don't think I have any books for gems that have been worked on though

[sweet blade]

Is it still called asterism if it's a single line (like a cat's eye)?

(Star Rubies are probably my favorite gemstone, period.)

[neon sigil]

just going off of google, it looks like they call single lines cat eyes.

[sweet blade]

Fair enough. I'm just annoyed at the limited options for men's jewelry. I can wear this ring on my pinky, but it just... doesn't look right.

[neon sigil]

these emeralds are so pretty tho

[sweet blade]

Huh, considering the price I paid for this, it's almost certainly not an emerald, but it does look like that...

[jovial bane]

I find painting minis way easier than traditional art from scratch, it's kind of like 3D coloring book 😅

[sweet blade]

Yeah, I found out that I'm WAY worse at coloring books than I thought when I tried to paint a miniature.

[jovial bane]

heh, I bet I'd struggle as well

[sweet blade]

My brother is pretty good at it, though.

[jovial bane]

I think the entire line art would be the majority of my practice if I picked up drawing

[neon sigil]

I can illustrate but I can't paint minis for the life of me.
then again, I feel like that's mostly cause I'm used to being good after years of drawing and getting frustrated that I'm not instantly good at a new hobby.

[sweet blade]

Oh, thank you, now I feel attacked. I've felt that way for... 40 years, I think?

[jovial bane]

might be it, alternatively tools you use

good lamp is the most important one

[neon sigil]

I actually don't do lineart at all.

I mostly use a blockout method for stuff like this.

[sweet blade]

Heh, anyone interested in learning the Inverse Transformation Algorithm for random variate generation? Free lesson; all you have to do is ask.

[sweet blade]

That's very nice art. <Source: total art n00b>

[jovial bane]

still lovely

[neon sigil]

don't get me started on how ray tracing influences color theory and how physics can help you paint.

[sweet blade]

By all means, I love learning.

[jovial bane]

idk the details of why you struggle with minis, but personally the three most important things I found out were:

• good lamp is crucial, especially with white light
• good grip is also very important, you want some kind of holder
• stable posture

[neon sigil]

in that case I got a wonderful video to share to get you started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwLQ0cDb4cE

Fantastic artist and teacher, marco bucci

[sweet blade]

How do we test if Rocketman is an AI? 😉

I feel vaguely scammed right now. 🙂

[jovial bane]

then wet palette is a great QoL in my opinion makes controlling the right consistency of paint much easier

[sweet blade]

Ah, we found it. No way I can maintain a stable posture.

[neon sigil]

I'd say my biggest struggle with minis is working with color and keeping my lines clean.
I think, maybe if I tried using more opaque paints that'd help me with the color a lot more. but the linework is still a messy situation

[neon sigil]

oh? I can speak personally on it if you want

that's just a primer

[sweet blade]

I do actually prefer that... I tend to be a very interactive learner (and teacher). But maybe another time... I'm starting to get exceptionally weary.

I want to pass a reverse Turing test. New goal unlocked.

[neon sigil]

for sure! always feel free to hit me up, by ping or dms, if you want to talk shop.
I love teaching, even if you're just curious about the topic.

[jovial bane]

hmm
ofc experience is most importan.
But holder, good stable posture especially with the elbows on the table and good brushes with nice tips help. Personally I don't think lines are that crucial, because minis have recesses and raised areas. Washes do recesses great, and for raised areas gentle drybrushing highlights just those

[neon sigil]

I wanted to be a colorist originally. I actually learned to draw because not knowing how to draw was impacting my ability to color

[sweet blade]

As long as you're okay with learning some fun stuff (YMMV) regarding stochastics. 🙂

Today I learned that there are, apparently, specializations inside of painting.

(In terms of technique, not style.)

[neon sigil]

oh yeah, there's so many sub genres and disciplines.
I've been told my process is a mixture of gouache style painting and adobe flash style rendering.

[sweet blade]

That sounds... rare.

[neon sigil]

😅 it does make my style distinct

[sweet blade]

The only thing I learned about coloring was when I made slides in gifted in... second grade? Because the slides get greatly magnified, we had to make sure that we colored in only one direction.

[jovial bane]

which is great 😄

[sweet blade]

And yeah, I remember that over 40 years later. The color I mainly used was an orangeish red.

[jovial bane]

I'm personally speedrunning basics of color theory now that I try to blend the colors on minis a little

[sweet blade]

I wish my art friend was around to help orient me a little more.

Haven't talked to him in ... a while.

[neon sigil]

there's so many cool topics.
But one of my favorites is contrast and harmony.

Anything will look good if the colors contrast against each other but are tied together (harmony) by some unifying force.

For ex. Yellow sunlight can pull all your colors towards yellow, despite each having their own unique material.

[jovial bane]

yup, which is why cold, white light is important

[sweet blade]

Sounds like a lot of crossover with fashion.

[jovial bane]

or rather having good lighting, because you might want that pull towards yellow

[sweet blade]

I'd rather a pull towards a nice cool purple.

[neon sigil]

So many topics can be applied to many fields.
Hell, you can apply nearly any topic to things like contrast too!

And the more layers of contrast you have, the more pronounced it becomes. for ex. White contrasts against dark grey. But a bright yellow would contrast more against a dark blue. This is because you are contrasting value and color. You can further too, with shape or clarity, even themes

[sweet blade]

I feel accomplished when I realize that white text needs to flip to black in my dashboards when it's against a yellow background (e.g., graph bar). That's about the extent of my abilities here.

[jovial bane]

smoothing out that contrast is the thing I currently struggle with 😅

[sand wigeon]

colors are so simple when you simply can’t see them like me. it’s simple

when they’re all the same it’s no worry!

[neon sigil]

oh! I got one for this that might be rude.

[sweet blade]

Oh, I should be happy I can see anything.

One day, I might be.

[sand wigeon]

to clarify i’m mildly color blind i can actually see colors, i just like thinking i’m funny

[neon sigil]

this was drawn by a colorblind artist

he's just very good at looking at the color wheel and using it to great effect.

[jovial bane]

which FF is this ?

[sand wigeon]

what was drawn? all i see is a grey picture!

haha

insert the old muppet men

[sweet blade]

Yes.

[neon sigil]

the artist is actually the guy known as dage the evil from adventure quest worlds :v

[sweet blade]

OG, V.

IYKYK.

[sand wigeon]

there was a ff5?

i thought it started at tactics and ended at 14.

[jovial bane]

Was thinking that, because in FF14 he is way more chonky xD

[sweet blade]

This probably used his Dissidia model as the base.

Maybe his Type 0 form, though I don't think so. Can't say for sure, as I didn't play that one myself.

[jovial bane]

Picking up mini painting made me appreciate the illustrations way more.
I can see the subtle shades and highlights now xD

[silent steeple]

Just gonna drop this here for those who might not know

Subnautica is free to play for the weekend

[fierce moth]

He must quite good at greyscale

I guess he have a big tablet though

I thought colourblind means no fate with being an artist, he proved I'm wrong, so he deserved to own a top tablet

https://www.artstation.com/dage
Oh the thing become more and more amazing

He drew characters he likes 10 years at least

It's much cooler than omen EHG made

I feel their omen monsters are unfinished or just don't under the full growth

It's on the child period but doing adult stuff