📚┃off-topic

[sand wigeon]

also, small correction, morrowind started the shift to action in rpg's

not oblivion

[jovial bane]

yes, but nobody really played Morrowind

[sand wigeon]

what

[jovial bane]

Compared to Oblivion

[sand wigeon]

i mean compared sure but that's because there were less people to play games when morrowind released

video games were not worldwide popular until the mid 2010's

if we compare max pop morrowind was very popular

[jovial bane]

yeah, which is why I think RPGs were pretty much a niche genre. Maybe most people played FF7

[sand wigeon]

it was marketed as stretching the bounds of physical hardware (which it did) and so there was a craze amongst the already limited pc playerbase

[jovial bane]

But even Morrowind numbers were relatively small I bet

[sand wigeon]

it sold 4 million copies worldwide three years post release

literally what are you talking about

[jovial bane]

huh, okay I was wrong then. Living in the what people call Eastern EU skewed my perception

People did play Morrowind, but it wasn't that big from my experience

[sand wigeon]

i think you don't know what you're talking about in general and have let your statements be skewed by perception

crpg's are not popular

most people who play games nowadays don't even know what a crpg is

[jovial bane]

They aren't, and I admitted it.

[sand wigeon]

and that's strictly amongst people who already play games lol

[jovial bane]

The first cRPG to be considered popular is BG3 really

[sand wigeon]

???

okay then we're done here

[jovial bane]

What ? It's not a cRPG or not a popular game ?

???

[twilit mountain]

Anyways I'm cutting in to say my decade is ruined because Larian confirmed the upcoming Divinity game to be a CRPG and so BD and DD will stay rotting :/

[sand wigeon]

all my besties hate larian

actual awful devs

[jovial bane]

man, I shudder to think what do you think about the state of the RPGs then

[sand wigeon]

wdym

rpg's have received like nothing but good games for the past ten years

[jovial bane]

such as ?

KCD2 among recent relases

WOTR was decent

[sand wigeon]

fallout 4, witcher 3 (that was 2015 but i wasn't being literal with my time frame), cyberpunk: 2077, kcd1 and kcd2, the entire dishonored series, disco elysium, lunacid (depending if we're using the classic definition of rpg), roadwarden, sunless sea (also 2015), this war of mine, vaporum and vaporum: lockdown, wolfstride (maybe doesn't count? might be a jrpg)

like i could go on

skyrim special edition is 2016

foretales is an indie hidden gem

the forgotten city

ik some people like greedfall

the horizon series

the shadow of series

i can't think of more off the top of my head

[jovial bane]

Cyberpunk is barely an RPG but good, Fallout 4 is okay-ish.
Dishonored is IMSIM.
Disco indeed is good.
Decent games including Greedfall.

Horizon and Shadow of are really action games with RPG elements. If we include them, then God of War as well shudders

I will add Wasteland 3 to the mix as well.
I see your point, I just have much more narrow definition of RPG

[sand wigeon]

how is cyberpunk barely an rpg

fallout 4 revolutionized the idea of a gameplay loop in an rpg setting

imsims are a subcategory of rpg's

and yes god of war is an rpg

wasteland is a crpg and i wasn't counting crpg's, jrpg's or trpg's

[jovial bane]

Your choices barely matter in both narrative sense and world's reactivity. Fallout 4 was, is recieved as "not Starfield". Let's put it this way

[sand wigeon]

i would say cyberpunk is the best mainstream rpg we've had ever

[sand wigeon]

your choices change things constantly wdym

[warped wren]

Calling Cyberpunk barely an RPG is one of the more unhinged takes I've ever read on this server, I applaud the effort

[sand wigeon]

there's new dialogue in about every path, missions have variability and different endings, there's a surplus of different endings, builds can get very complicated

there's hidden details around the world (so many in fact)

you can find corpses of people from random side missions in rivers because of a choice you made lol

pretty much anytime your choices lead to an off screen death you can then go and find that body somewhere in the world

not to mention the dlc

which has EXTREME variance in a lot of ways

and to be frank cyberpunk has the best voiced protagonist in gaming history

[jovial bane]

Yeah, the ending one for quests does affect the ending of the quest.
Origins ? They add a dialogue option that push the narrative forward no matter the option anyway.
Whole heist ? Chosing to betray Dexter and siding with Evelynn ?
Whole game is riddled with illusion of choice that does not matter.
And I loved that game

[warped wren]

CP2077 has more roleplaying elements, a more interactive world, more ways to build and play your character, more actual (not minorly different) endings than literally any RPG I've ever had the joy of playing

[sand wigeon]

origins add more dialogue and were generally never intended to be more

rpg's are about platying a character

the best way to in fact do that is with different dialogue options

like it's not suddenly not an rpg because you don't have a choice to do whatever you want

it's a role-playing game. you're playing a role. you're playing v.

[warped wren]

How is it an "illusion of choice" if your choices completely change the nature and availability of future choices, the lives / deaths of core characters, the very ending(s) available, and elements of the world

Where's the illusion

[sand wigeon]

things are going to play out the same way sometimes because it's a game and you can only reasonably put in so many options

one of the first missions has six different endings that all affect things later (meat packing plant with maelstrom)

[warped wren]

There's only a few unchangeable plot elements in CP2077

[jovial bane]

For example the heist.
You choose to side with Evelynn and betray Dexter, you mess up the cover by not saying to cancel the meeting. You stealth through the entire plaza, and pull out a gun on Dexter. Nothing changes

[sand wigeon]

the heist is on rails because it's what kicks off the entire story

[warped wren]

Why are you giving the example of the literal one mission that's railroaded

[sand wigeon]

it was always going to go the way it does because there's no other way

[warped wren]

Every single thing after that is not

Like Dream said, it kicks off the whole game. It's basically an extended tutorial.

Did you bounce off the game after that one mission or something?

[sand wigeon]

(it literally is the tutorial actually)

[warped wren]

Oh yeah the soundtrack and title screen plays after that doesn't it

Been a while

[jovial bane]

All main quests are on the rail that sometimes diverge. Like saving Takemura, or being able to enter the warehouse if you are corpo

[warped wren]

??? There are like a dozen other ways to manage the warehouse

[sand wigeon]

(pre-heist it gives you the basic tutorial and then expands on the mechanics introduced in a "level" setting, including imsim options, build reliant options and a deeper exploration of combat with damage resistant enemies and stealth with layouts)

[warped wren]

Even AS a corpo for that matter

And you can let Takemura die btw

Iirc

[sand wigeon]

reminder takemura can literally die

yeah

[jovial bane]

yeah, that's indeed a cool option

[sand wigeon]

if you don't go back to save him. which the game doesn't even say you can do.

[sand wigeon]

like yeah that's how main quests work

do you want them to create seventeen different campaigns based on every minute choice you make

[warped wren]

There's like zero railroads in that game. You can legit do anything

[sand wigeon]

or introduce eighteen different paths to every mission

the game already took like eight years

at the end of the day you're playing the role of V. V is only going to do so many things

[warped wren]

Tbf to CDPR, they already kinda did lol

[sand wigeon]

you're playing a character, you're playing a role

[warped wren]

So much of the world reacts to who you kill, who you save, how you act, how you talk

[sand wigeon]

it's not reasonable for a fresh off the block v to not show up to a meeting with dexter deshawn, especially when asked by their partner, for example

that's not a choice you get to make because v would never make it

[sand wigeon]

yeah

unrelated i remember the two times i cried while playing cyberpunk 2077 very distinctly lol

https://youtube.com/shorts/kKFV0EayT6A (one of them was this ending, female v's voice acting got me here with the "i promise")

the other one was evelynn's suicide

[jovial bane]

It's still quite railroady. Take the meeting Hanako during parade quest. You kill the snipers, you take down the boss and Takemura kidnaps her. You can change whether Takemura lives or dies, and you can nonlethally take down the bodyguard. Can anything else be changed ?

Narrative was great

[sand wigeon]

you could say this for literally every rpg

there can only be so much variance

[sand wigeon]

also yeah the dialogue here changes based on what you do

what you've said previously, some dialogue with hanako at embers changes, dialogue with takemura changes

etc

it's just not a level that will even have much variance in how you can go about it because in story it's all preplanned based off info takemura gathers

[sand wigeon]

you can't just ignore the plan because v wouldn't do that

[sand wigeon]

ong

[sand wigeon]

and guess what. you're playing v. you are playing the role of v. you're roleplaying them.

you're not you. you aren't playing you. you're playing v

this is like first grade writing concepts

[jovial bane]

I feel quite the same.
I will just stop by saying it's a great game, that still classifies as RPG at least.
Unlike you FFXVI

[warped wren]

You are giving literally single point examples from main story quests, which are often LITERALLY THE ONLY POINTS of railroading in an entire ~80-100 hour playthrough. I genuinely don't understand what on Earth your expectations are.

If you're looking for an emulation of real life, I think that's a few decades in the future

[sand wigeon]

even if your expectations are "multiple routes for the same campaign" -- guess what! play the dlc.

where they're able to do that because of the smaller scope.

[jovial bane]

my really stupid expectations are more in like with cRPG, but action oriented in First Person. But I will drop it here.

[sand wigeon]

being aware of your foolishness does not make such foolishness intelligence

[fierce moth]

Quite interesting, a chapel in Rocky Mountain national park even

[jovial bane]

no, but do go on

[sand wigeon]

wdym go on

i have nothing else to say

you admit your expectations are stupid and therefore you should not have them lol

just stating they're stupid means nothing until you change, recognition is but one step

[jovial bane]

I don't understand why do resort to insults, but I don't mind. Go all the way

[sand wigeon]

i never insulted you. you said "my really stupid expectations," i'm just commenting on holding those expectations if you recognize they're stupid

if you say they're stupid, it doesn't matter whether or not i agree

i'm just commenting on you saying it's stupid but also continuing to hold that opinion because that's confusing to me lol

[jovial bane]

mb then, I'm bad with talking with people for reasons >.>

[fierce moth]

Quite true. Fell asleep again 1h ago and I just wants to lay on my bed after woke up

[stone anvil]

fact

[fierce moth]

Alright I can't delay more. Time to cook my dinner

New wallpaper for Chrome looks cool :)

[jovial bane]

TIL you can put wallpaper on chrome. Not that I use it anymore.
Cool choice btw

[fierce moth]

Just click the pen icon at the bottom right to upload your wallpaper and change theme colour

My chrome is version 144.0.7559.133 (Official Build) (64-bit)

[sand wigeon]

who uses chrome nowadays

[gilded elm]

Effectively the entire browsing world.

Maybe not Chrome directly, but Chromium 100%.

It's one of the reasons I support Mozilla, because Firefox is one of the actually independent and non-Chromium browser engines which still exists today.

Chromium -> Chrome, Edge, Brave, Opera
Gecko -> Firefox
WebKit -> Safari

Opera used to run on their own engine called Presto back in the day, I really liked it back then. Eventually they gave up trying to compete with Google and just scrapped it in favor of Chromium under the hood.

[desert jasper]

It's honestly kinda sad that chromium is so widely used

[gilded elm]

I remember this period with some clarity because I lived through it from a web developer's perspective. Browsers were a big part of my career because before the days of Chrome, frontend web development was truly a painful experience because we had to make sites work properly in Internet Explorer since it had the majority share of the browser market. Chrome was like a breath of fresh air at the time.

Not only was Chrome just an amazingly performant browser (at the time), it was a genuine pleasure to develop with. It took the lessons from Firefox/Firebug and improved on them and over time it overtook Internet Explorer and just became the golden standard.

Fast forward to today, Google has gotten complacent and greedy with their market position. They've used their dominance to influence how browser standards would be shaped for well over a decade, and not for the better.

[desert jasper]

Yeah, things have changed ove rthe years
I do remember making a web page for uni project back in the day and oh I hated making sure it works the same on everything

[gilded elm]

Yeah, frontend development is a lot better today thanks to Chrome, no doubt about it. Back then, developers had to make websites work for Internet Explorer 6, 7, 8, 9, Firefox and Chrome. Firefox and Chrome were easy, not a problem at all. They had sane engines. Basically every version of Internet Explorer (the only browser that truly mattered at the time) all sucked ass.

Not only did we have to support multiple versions of Internet Explorer, each version had very different levels of compatibility.

[junior oyster]

Despite its flaws I still use FF

I would rather use edge over chrome any day

At work I use edge

[gilded elm]

Back then, Firefox was a great browser if not for its abysmal performance. Chrome came in and stole the show by being "Firefox, but super optimized" and it's interesting to compare that to the current situation today. Chrome is accumulating more bloat and noticeable performance degredation while Firefox has been steadily improving.

I personally try to use Firefox everywhere I can.

[junior oyster]

I've been using ff since 1.0 or something

And I know it's a minor thing but I was super happy to see ff installed on steamdeck

[junior oyster]

They banned all browsers except edge and chrome at work

[gilded elm]

Gabe probably knows Mozilla/Firefox is the least worst of the browsers from a privacy and software freedom perspective.

[junior oyster]

Yea

[gilded elm]

That's kind of wild. Did they say why?

[junior oyster]

Security concerns or some bs

[gilded elm]

lol

Honestly not as wild as some of the crap they do at my job heh

But given the tools I have at my disposal and need as part of my job, they couldn't stop me from using Firefox even if they tried lol

[jovial bane]

I use Opera rn, but FF is a good browser

[stone anvil]

using Brave, recommend it If you are watching Youtube a lot

it saves great time from ads, amazing

[desert jasper]

I use it on mobile

[fierce moth]

42 yawn per hour at least if I don't do painting --- Low energy mode is hard to...(yawn again) deal

[ebon meadow]

Same for me but my blood pressure just dropped due the somehow crazy weather flip

[fierce moth]

More frequently my yawn is if I let my brain just think random things instead of focusing on something because it mean more negative mood is boiling in mind

It's how my medicine work

[ebon meadow]

My medicine will probably be a freaking tiramisu I m craving one now ,that how I know my sugar just went down

Apart from me literally falling in to micro sleeps standing

[fierce moth]

🤔 Sounds like it's a food coma

[ebon meadow]

Nah it's a storm coming weatherwise ,my body knows lol

I am walking weather app

[desert jasper]

I kinda want some noodles

[fierce moth]

The same idea I had last night so I went to eat a bowl of Japanese noodles

[fierce moth]

🤔... Maybe it's why I enjoy cooking high-end artworks. Once I done, I go back to the status that want more attention from strangers or pros. That's tough and ridiculous.

High-end difficulty promise a long process, which means I can enjoy exploring how to paint well without overthinking.

[sudden anchor]

why you cook your arts?👩‍🍳

[fierce moth]

I have wondered what do I want to do with my life，why I still want to do that when AI tools be evoluted quickly, and what AI tools may change in my life.

These're my answers:

1. What do I want to do with my life?

I want to do the own art. Whatever the way is, they will influence with my personal experience and my thinking on different things. Art here means traditional painting and 3D art. Both of them are inspired me, immersed me and calmed me. Every details a painting or a 3d model artists made have condensed a lot on their skills and their stories, I enjoy reading them, as same as I spread my stories by this way.

2. Why I still want to do the own art when AI tools be evoluted quickly?

AI is a powerful tool, it'll help people to make their art quickly without any basically learnings about aesthetic. But I believe people need connections from the human. Skills still be the most valuable thing for an artist, whatever tools they use. I don't want to be robbed by AI art, but AI tools helps a lot on answering my confusion for my life indeed. AI tools just tools. Artists means be creative forever.

3. What AI tools may change my life?

It increased the speed of getting answers for my confusion efficiently. I need to think what the sense of my life and learn how to improve my skills. I need more simple ways to solve my problems. I need an assistant to give me inspirations and do experiments. They cost a lot to get help in past, but I just need to ask deepseek without bothering another people now. It's a big evolution of information gathering.

I thought that question with what AI tools can bring for me before

(it's one of posts on my LinkedIn)

Oh. You mean "cook".

Emmm good question 🤔

[abstract karma]

same thing happened to games with stupid UE 5

[desert jasper]

Tbh I get it
It's hard to make your own engine and if you use one that's available & easy to hire new people
But then when it feels like none of them optimises the game and it runs terribly and everyone just looks at the new UE5 games that "oh no, not another one"? yeaa

[abstract karma]

these skills for optimalization disappeared in some time period..
Something i think its not taught or learned trough skills and exp anymore.. in most of IT fields not just gaming developing..

Idk if all just really need to rush or dont have time because some management pressure them to get fast enough..

eh with filters 😄

[gilded elm]

UE5 isn't inherently bad. It just made game dev more accessible.

Optimization isn't something that comes out of the box for any kind of software, especially not something with as many moving parts as video games. It takes skill and knowledge.

The alternative to "not using Unreal Engine" is basically having fewer games overall.

Which I would argue is worse than having more games, even if a lot of them suck with performance.

Unity is the only real competitor to Unreal when it comes to 3D games and it suffers from the same stigma as UE5.

It's just my feeling, but I do feel like the companies that are putting out poorly optimized builds are mostly AAA devs... which seems odd, because you'd think they have the more seasoned so-called industry veterans.

[gilded elm]

Not even just with Unreal or Unity, but also big names like Capcom with their in-house RE Engine which has been a performance disaster for most of their recent titles.

[abstract karma]

Hmm is its true that politics trying screw up discord with age and ID scans ?

[abstract karma]

you mean like guys ehm "guys" which making new Fable RPG ? which has so far nothing common with Fable i've played ?

To me devs in AAA games are mostly gone or leaders of group which takes money because they got corrupted

• to more clever ones they left when they noticed how their team and effort shifted to more corporate hungry tactics

So these days there are fractions of previous team members of most famous AAA franchises and new ones just gamble with their
group name fame..

At least this is trend i seems to notice lately

[abstract karma]

one would say that, that RE would only improve not rush how many games we can make in year

[junior oyster]

I use firefox even on mobile

Install ublock and you are good to go

[fierce moth]

I'm fine with that 🤔

I even interested in how discord recognize Chinese ID xd

[junior oyster]

That kind of stuff is the norm in China right? I don't mean to be offensive or anything by this fyi

[fierce moth]

yes

[abstract karma]

i'm not? its same s.. like that EU chat control. Why the f.. i would show anybody even if crypted message in my email or chat with somebody ?
What it is disaster is that KIDS don't know how to behave on internet.. that whole f.. point of these regulations

No offense to some countries rules, it's choice of people selected government but internet was made for military purposes and they released to public
to enjoy time in anonymity and be able share their opinions (at least it was one of main initial ideas behind that)

also Not mention this:

forgot that discord had this problem with 3rd party

[fierce moth]

@lean fiber Any plans on moving the community to somewhere from EHG if discord execute this policy? 🤔

[junior oyster]

Lol wth

They have their own forum for that Kirra lol

[jade jackal]

yeah....

[abstract karma]

basically.. Simply and slowly back to forums in websites

[junior oyster]

Not sure how they'd use face recognition with me as I don't have a cam with my pc lol

[abstract karma]

app on mobile linked on discord

or discord on mobile

[cold ore]

At least as announced currently, it looks like folks can do literally nothing and experience no changes in this discord - there's no 18+/nsfw tagged channels so someone who chooses to not do the ID thing won't be impacted at all

[fierce moth]

🤔 I barely don't use their forum because we can't post pictures and we can't off topic

[junior oyster]

Yea this is what I heard too

Which is why I have mixed feelings about it. I don't visit nsfw servers/channels anyway but if that's the starting point and they decide to prod further it could be a big problem

I'm somewhat afraid of the latter happening

[cold ore]

Yeah that's pretty much my concern in this regard - nothing that's been announced is really going to impact me or any discord servers I'm in, but maybe there'll be some "really not a fan" changes down the line (though I suppose that's a thing to worry about if/when it ever happens)

[abstract karma]

Eventually if this comes to update soon or later normal user which isnt verified will have limited options to do anything on discord..

• that will be probably future
  (probably even wont be able whisper or send mesage to selected user)

[junior oyster]

I kinda like the latter half of your comment lol

No more scams

If it works that is

We know how much games try to ban cheaters but it almost never works

[abstract karma]

It wont work, scammers will always find their way even if they would use stolen ID's

[cold ore]

Or there's the amusing (and then fixed quickly) Death Stranding workaround heh

[warped wren]

I'll believe this is all "for the kids" the day YT Kids or Roblox are moderated

[warped wren]

I'm pretty sure there'll be plenty of cases of people using stuff like NanoBanana Pro to bypass

[abstract karma]

LOL second thing which made me laught this day First one was that video about upcoming Fable 😄

[junior oyster]

Fable?

[warped wren]

Nobody wants to give these clowns any more ID

[abstract karma]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aHsqE3DoJQ

Never had option as i never had something else than PC to play Fable 2 but just playing Fable 3 is faaaaaaaar difference than old school Fable 1
And this new one is just really looks like Hogwarts legacy with just placced in some world called "Albion" >.>

Hogwarts is nice game for being it Potter world but it this kind of design should say in that not push this kind of elements to different game

[junior oyster]

That guy makes fun of practically anything. I'm not going to judge a game before it comes out.

Besides I never really played any fable games so I guess it doesn't affect me like some of the fans of the series

[abstract karma]

maybe that's why but i event didnt like Fable 3 so..
Fable 1 is one of unique rpg (for me at least) There was tons of S.. you could do since game allowed it

[silent steeple]

My concerns is this
"Identity documents submitted to our vendor partners are deleted quickly— in most cases, immediately after age confirmation"

Why would they word it like that

Why say "in most cases" and not "all cases"

And also its not about age verification. Its about age-assurance. Another weirdly worded part

But im also among the census who cba about this and just go along with whatever comes

[jovial bane]

The bigger concern is the leak that happened, and iirc month old ID photos leaked. Meaning they did not delete them at all

[silent steeple]

Yeah back in oct

So if they're admitting here outright that some of these docs wont be deleted and these docs being govt issued, the leaks(if they happen) would be detrimental to the users. Nothing's gonna happen to discord as a company

[jovial bane]

In EU that would be breach of GDPR, so they can be sued over it

[silent steeple]

Well all we can do is wait and watch 😂

[fierce moth]

The top is past ones, the bottom is latest ones, glad to learn how to paint rock's textures after viewed many real references :)

(Black + grey is too boring. Learnt a new way to enhance exposed rocks)

Oh forget one point... Fluffy snow. It's inspired from real references too and the effect is so good.

[junior oyster]

Hooray for UK too

We have GDPR too xD

[abstract karma]

UK is the one which starts these nonsense in the first place.. Then as domino effect others joining to this

[hot crown]

Fluffy snow
Fleet Snowfluff... I'm sorry, still can't process wuwa 3.1 properly. Still collecting pieces.

3.1 ended up being WAY too heavy. 😭

[fierce moth]

4:30+... One hour is passed without any feeling

Sync colours on both sides finally. Today's painting is done

I hope I can sleep 5h this night after some spirit-consuming brush

[jovial bane]

Mewgenics came out, and it's a pretty damn good game

Of course art style can be off putting, given it's the game by the guy who made Binding of Isaac

[gilded elm]

Nice, I wanted to check out Mewgenics.

[fierce moth]

Nice, I break my record hhhhh, slept 3h

[twilit mountain]

I don't have money to buy Mewgenics

[fierce moth]

92k viewers, it's an amazing achievement for an indie game

[sand wigeon]

he's created some of the most widely critically acclaimed games ever

i'm not personally surprised

[twilit mountain]

McMillen is basically an industry name on the level of Team Cherry or Moon Studios

He's an incredibly talented game designer who shows a ton of passion in every project he has ever done

[sand wigeon]

McMillen has created Super Meat Boy, widely considered to be one of the best platformers ever made, The Binding of Isaac, also widely considered to be one of the best roguelikes ever made (along with an acclaimed spinoff) and World of Goo, widely considered to be one of the best puzzle games ever made.

Note the usage of many "widely considered to be amazing."

[fierce moth]

Make sense why the latest game from him can get steam banner promotion

[sand wigeon]

His work is one of the things that elevated Steam in popularity, actually

[fierce moth]

He works on game development over 18 years then

The personal art style is quite iconic

[twilit mountain]

Super Meat Boy will be 16 years old this year so yeah, loooooong time.

[fierce moth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/AQZn24wkZH
Cookies are flat for a reason

🤣 RIP, teddy bear...

I appreciated that idea though hhhhhh

[sand wigeon]

actually the best cookies come in pyramid form /s

[fierce moth]

I wish I have a chance to spend 3 days in Germany to hang in gamescom and visit the city or just take a 7-day trip in New Zealand this year 🫡

It's the desire for Chinese new year.

[gilded elm]

lmao Mewgenics soundtrack is very good

Game has been very fun too, very polished

[maiden widget]

After the bumbo initial release I hesitate to get his games on day 1

[fierce moth]

Very interesting

I need to wait 9 more years to spend the year of my zodiac

[jade jackal]

Mewgnics is awesome, i love it so far

And yeah, McMillen's experience in coding is showing with this game, it has a very high level of polish

Also this project slow-brewing for 7 years in a stable manner made it what it is

Also yeah, the soundtrack is sublime

[warped wren]

I found it interesting but it's pricey

Idk may get it later

[twilit mountain]

Eh, less than getting everything for TBOI is still

[hot crown]

← rabbit
←'s spouse: tiger
Hmmmmmm...

[fierce moth]

Hmmmmmm...

[hot crown]

Guess it tracks, given how easily I get moved lately whereas she shrugs the same off most of time. 🤷‍♂️

[jovial bane]

I love cats singing to the tone of the music

[fierce moth]

🥱 Crazy yawn time

[fierce moth]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XJ6lOR

Yo very cool. I see real call-out, iterations and exploration in a professional game project today :)

Let's see will he become the concept environment artist EHG want to find soon

Oh Otto's connection is too crazy. Every random artist I want to learn more had connected with him

[indigo shadow]

Are we moving to Teamspeak or something? 😂

[fierce moth]

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/vbvkqx

Never know there's a type of room calls churchware shop... This advanced concept art project taught lots of things 🤔

[desert jasper]

I'm most likely abandoning discord the moment it asks me for id or face vid

[indigo shadow]

I remember I had a little argument about suggesting LE to Teamspeak, I just hate the fact that this happens 🙁

[desert jasper]

They'll just sell the data

[sand wigeon]

no you don't understand, discord PROMISES they won't sell it

[twilit mountain]

Please ignore the 70,000+ people who have already had their data leaked

[sand wigeon]

well yeah i’m ignoring them. because discord promises

they would never say smth when they know it to be untrue

[sudden anchor]

phone number, which I sadly had to give, is only thing dc has from me. payment information and id are no-go.

[fierce moth]

lol damn how people can think a room like that... That's quite complicated

This concept artist must know which world he want to build very clearly

I have zero idea for which gameplay can happen in a room lol

[indigo shadow]

I rather hiring lawyers than fighting for my leaked data.

also we haven't had any nerdy villain in James Bond movie since Tomorrow or Goldeneye, Would love to see another villains in James Bond with intention to selling online Data to SPECTRE.

[jovial bane]

Personally I will wait in hopes discord backtracks. If it does not work I will resort to fooling the clanker first.

[sand wigeon]

maybe one day we’ll get a privately owned chat service

[fierce moth]

...This skill level is insanely high... Quite simple to read, I can understand everything even I'm a noob.

This pro is too genius.

The only problem I have after the reading is which types of game are he designing

His name deserve to be remembered. Nikita Gritsun

I feel he can build a team to develop a game...He can do that

[ebon meadow]

It has RuneScape feeling

Reminded me of hd adon for osrs and dark mode

Underneath where my mommy Konar stands

[sand wigeon]

your what.

[desert jasper]

Never heard anyone call Konar that before

[ebon meadow]

I liked slayer ok xdd

Best missions in game

Didn't had to scroll much Google lol

[sand wigeon]

please touch grass

[novel forum]

@desert jasper thats what Chat Gpt imagines Lagon when I told him about Owobyss

[ebon meadow]

Been touching it touch lately,need to get back to grind

[fierce moth]

..........

[ebon meadow]

It's been like a year of casual gaming I have been going out to much

[fierce moth]

I can't accept this art style for illustration personally

[ebon meadow]

The Konar one or the laguwu one ?

[fierce moth]

laguwu

[ebon meadow]

I like the ducks though not gonna lie

Imagine them character size stomping u mid Lagoon fight

How nightmares are created

[novel forum]

its as if hes sitting in a bath tub

[fierce moth]

Paypal is quite low-efficiency. I can't get my money until these days. My verification is completed yesterday.

It means I don't have money to spend Chinese new year until the 2nd anniversary of le, alright

It make that day more special now

Fun fact: Feb 23th is the last day of Chinese new year

I hope it's the last new year I must torture by fireworks and parents 🙏

I can start to hunt a room to vent and live alone after Mar. 3th 🤔 Plus seeking professional help from therapy to heal depression

How to survive in the last dark period is my new quest now. 2 more weeks...

[desert jasper]

You can do it, I believe in you

[novel forum]

i wish you only the best and remember where there is darkness there is also light, brighter days are coming! stay strong 🙂

[fierce moth]

I plan to move to the north of China... Guangzhou is damn hot. I want to stay in Taiyuan, Shanxi for half of year at least.

Lots of historical architectures are there and the local eat noodles. I can eat delicious noodles every day.

I hope I can settle down in a new city before s4

[sand wigeon]

is local food there actually affordable for you?

[novel forum]

before S4? thats really soon 😄

[sand wigeon]

i've always lived in places where eating anything not homecooked is a luxury

[sudden anchor]

me too, I wonder how Kirra can finance this without a job.

[sand wigeon]

isn't her family like very well off

[fierce moth]

Beijing, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Shanghai are super cities in China, which mean local price are expensive

So it will more cheap

More chances to get more money in these cities so Chinese lives in other cities will put together in them

[fierce moth]

They'll not give me money to move out because they wish their child live near them so they can get accompany (control someone) always

[sand wigeon]

so how are you going to move out

like what's the plan here

apply online to jobs local in that area and setup an agreement with a landlord for a rented space?

you won't have the down payment for that tho so you need a decent chunk of money already which you aren't getting from paypal so you need a local job

[fierce moth]

100% depend on money I get from paypal to live. ￥5000+ I will get so I plan to use this decent chunk of money to rent a room and buy simple stuff I need for living

[gilded elm]

lol, looks like a familiar discussion. I'm only seeing half of it :)

[fierce moth]

Antidepressants I'm taking now are what I saved in 2023 for a plan of ending my life.

Well if I can get a decent amount of money from Paypal to start a new life... I should throw them away.

(The other reason is I know I can't afford medicine for years)

[junior oyster]

Damn I can kind of understand why you get depressed when people leave this server

[fierce moth]

Time for me to not understand why you understand that suddenly lol

[warped wren]

Do they not have mental health professionals in China

[sudden anchor]

Wish, I could take you with me on a jogg. I ran just 2 km today in a relatively slow pace and feel calm. Plus together it would be more fun.

[warped wren]

I wanted to ice skate yesterday but the rink near my place had something wrong with their freezer so it was all rough and jagged

Completely unfun

Almost faceplanted thrice

[ebon meadow]

My ass has a huge ptsd ice skating

My poor tailbone

[fierce moth]

lol He shared the answer 1h ago

He don't think which type of game he's designing at all. He just think which gameplay can interact with his world

[jovial bane]

Which tbh is quite smart

[fierce moth]

That's the concept art I want to learn, literally, really, pretty much. The logic behind + which details does I need + which parts do I need to sketch/render + how visual design interact with gameplay

🫡 10/10.

Figured out where my problem is. Empty mind for main idea.

I wanted to share some of my processes for my latest Embers project, and was thinking how to divide the information. After some thinking, considering that the whole project is up on my page for the view, I thought it would be logical to start at the beginning.

And it all starts with words on paper. Coming up with a brief at the beginning is very important, and writing (or typing) is quicker than any other action.

I like world building, but it can also be a trap. Too much information can actually hinder your progress, and overthinking parts that you are not going to design is, well, not very time efficient as well (keep in mind we are talking about short-term VISUAL personal work here).

So to keep it efficient, a classic formulae of WHAT, WHERE/WHEN, WHY and WHO was used. (I have attached an image with those questions answered). This helps to concentrate the most vital information I need to start developing the idea, without deep diving into the never ending hole of infinite research and lore.

This is what I have already done in the past, but the Art Nest mentorship added an interesting twist on top of all of that: what is the gameplay. That meant adding several extra questions on top of that, such as what kind of gameplay are we designing for, and what that means for visual design.

What follows is the first quick thumbnails to explore gameplay ideas (in my case, environment interactions). Same as with worldbuilding, it is important not to go overboard (concept art first), so for each gameplay idea I would ask myself: is it something that can be designed around? If the answer is “no” (for example, the idea is more about skill trees and menu navigation), I would throw it out, and keep those ideas that would force me to make decisions in my future environment.

At the same time I would start collecting references and make some architectural breakdowns for myself, as it is something I always do with the subject matter that I have not done before.

The whole thinking he wrote.

Too poor the data is. This project deserve to be promoted on the trend page for weeks...

[desert jasper]

Sweet
got invited to play Deadlock
guess I know what i'll play for some time

[stone anvil]

2 years passed after release and still need an invite to play the game is interesting move by valve

If you love fps and moba, the game is very good by the mechanics but I remember it was so repetitive and we had few item builds for competitive

[abstract karma]

name one game which is MOBA and isnt repetitive..

[stone anvil]

smite because you can play in different maps and modes

[gilded elm]

Doubt that I'll play much of it... succumbed to my impulsiveness again.

[stone anvil]

premiere If you want to watch https://youtu.be/KnAsWN-6hvw

[fervent hazel]

yeah i like the class. everything works fine

a little bit of lag in the server, probably because of the flood of returning players

[fierce moth]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

The 3rd CM I knew here

[fierce moth]

hhhhhhhh This game is unexpecting fun to watch streamers to play because you must speak spells clearly and loudly to break as more objects of a evil archmage as possible

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3834090/YAPYAP/

Not friendly for single players because it's a co-op horror game

[fierce moth]

I think this game will go popular in China if it can support Chinese spells 🤔 The same with other languages

The only shortage is this fun game just friendly with English native speakers

[desert jasper]

Eh I have no interest in buying the d2 thing

[maiden widget]

Interesting didn't expect that after your last take on it

[gilded elm]

I'll still play new content. My threshold for buying a game is fairly low lol

[maiden widget]

Value proposition from blizzard is too weak for me currently. I'll wait for a sale.

[gilded elm]

I'd be happy to just get around 15 hours out of it, seems likely.

(Already had D2R, only bought the DLC)

[maiden widget]

seems fair then

[fervent hazel]

it has an endgame now, instead of farming baal runs forever

it isnt just a new class

i also got no rest for the wicked, dragonkin, titan quest 2 and wishlisted the dark west, but these games definitely need a year or two in extra development

then there's the new grim dawn expansion coming up, i hope they update the engine cuz it looks pretty dated right now compared to everything else

[maiden widget]

It had terror zones already

And yeah I really hope the GD expansion will arrive at some time now

[fervent hazel]

for starters they improved the terror zones, made the stash cool, added a filter and added interesting new boss fights

but i wouldnt call this a typical blizzard product, it was more a community effort, like d2r wasnt actually remastered by blizzard itself

[abstract karma]

Hmm but Diablo 2 getting new class, will it be added also to vanilla or just d2r

[gilded elm]

They made improvements to a dated remaster of a dated game and its expansion. The improvements are good, but it's nothing revolutionary or super impressive.

[fervent hazel]

25 bucks is nothing to me anyway, but if youre poor dont buy it

[maiden widget]

Kind of a shitty thing to assume but you do you

[gilded elm]

lol

[fervent hazel]

i will have no problem buying LE's new content

[maiden widget]

About zero chance that they do anything for classic outside of D2r classic graphics

[fervent hazel]

now a diablo 1 remaster would actually blow my mind

[abstract karma]

so diablo 2 project modding

[fervent hazel]

rhykker's been talking about it, so who knows what the future will hold

concerning d2r modding, the biggest mod right now is "D2RLAN" or simply diablo 2 remodded. i keep an eye out on their updates, they got a lot going

[maiden widget]

First step they should do is disable the stupid online license check that fails if you've been offline for too long without a recheck button too

[fervent hazel]

D2rlan btw is free to download, independent from the blizz-launcher and has multiplayer lan support

but they havent implemented the new class yet, since it just came out obviously, but im sure it will come

https://www.d2rmodding.com/

[gilded elm]

Yeah, seems faulty. Some kind of keepalive failure from inactivity, either way it's dumb.

Had it happen in online mode too.

[maiden widget]

You have to go through some hoops to delete the old checked date sometimes to make it work at all. It's the worst implemented check like that I've encountered.

[gilded elm]

D4 has the same issue, I think.

I remember getting the license check failure in D4 client as well

[maiden widget]

Hm never had it there yet

But I'm using steam for d4

[abstract karma]

wait what.. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2536520/Diablo_II_Resurrected__Infernal_Edition/

That means that steam version buy have everything
and you need D2R new dlc buy seperately in bnet ? 😄 nice robbery

[gilded elm]

It's not complicated, you either buy from Steam or buy from Bnet

Total prices should be similar

Steam might not sell the DLC by itself though, because D2R was never released on Steam until now

[fervent hazel]

so far its getting positive reviews

[abstract karma]

well it's.. ?

I mean who bough Bnet version has no need for buy again full game in steam
While these which hadn buy diablo 2 so far can buy all of it in same price as d2r is sold on bnet

[gilded elm]

To play this content on Bnet, you need D2R + Warlock DLC

The Steam version contains both D2R + Warlock DLC in one package

Either way you're paying for both things.

Whether it's from Bnet or Steam

[abstract karma]

but not with same price

that catch in that

[fervent hazel]

i think thats on steam. i paid less on battle.net yes

they have to resolve this on their own

[fervent hazel]

oh unless you mean you had the vanilla d2r on steam already, but it wasnt on steam beforee right?

[gilded elm]

People who already bought D2R on Bnet only need to buy the DLC which is $24.99.

This is not complicated, like I said.

[abstract karma]

in total more than current offered version - while its not much it still faul play basically robbery 😄

[gilded elm]

There was no vanilla D2R on Steam, ever

They cost the same on Bnet and Steam

[fervent hazel]

yeah then the price is the same. i didnt pay attention on steam because i always buy blizz products on their launcher

[warped wren]

How much was D2R on bnet

If it was >$15 then Hersik is right, it's just robbing existing customers lol

Not that Blizzard cares or anything, nor do most people who play Blizzard games, just being pedantic

[fervent hazel]

regardless the whole package is still a better deal than nintendo releasing supbar slop that costs 80

[gilded elm]

I don't think you can actually buy D2R by itself on Bnet anymore, not as of today with this release.

[warped wren]

Nintendo users are the peak evolution of Stockholm Syndrome

[fervent hazel]

i stopped with nintendo at the gamecube, beyond that i have no idea what they're doing except everyone says they suck, especially with metroid prime 4

not to mention the console prices nowadays are ridiculous too

[abstract karma]

I bough diablo 2 within sales but normal price for D2R before Infernal Edition was $40
So means that ppl which bough it previously with full price $40 + $25 i mean if it isnt robery then idk 😄

[gilded elm]

Basically on this day, D2R released on Steam for the first time in the form of the Infernal Edition. Simultaneously, D2R can no longer be purchased standalone on Battle.net, if you want D2R you buy the Infernal Edition. If you buy just the DLC, you complete your D2R and it becomes the Infernal Edition.

[twilit mountain]

Pretty sure I paid like $5 for D2R so

[maiden widget]

It's just normal product prices going down with time

There's no one holding you hostage to pay full price. I bought it a few months after release for 20 or less

[gilded elm]

You paid an amount that you determined the game was worth at the time, You have a wild idea of what the word "robbery" means.

[twilit mountain]

I eve nhave D2R on Switch because it was the cheapest way to get D3 + DLC for some reason lol

[maiden widget]

You can argue the content is sparse but pricing and dlc bundles for new people isn't new or bad

D3 on Switch is peak tho so definitely worth it

[abstract karma]

nah is simple matter of view

I dont care about time value of product or object.. What matter in games for me is just total price you spend of it..
I can find minimally a lot of ppl in net which will find it same

[warped wren]

Nani

[maiden widget]

You can find people to believe anything on the net

Doesn't make it a worthwhile view

[gilded elm]

You actually, literally, made the argument that people who get to pay less than you for the same game, years later, means you are getting robbed. This was your literal argument.

Just because you paid $40 for D2R back then and people now basically pay $15 for D2R doesn't mean you got robbed my guy.

[twilit mountain]

There was a bundle to get D2R and D3 + DLC and it was cheaper than just buying D3 + DLC alone

[abstract karma]

from your point of view but for MANYYY, and you even know it, will just look on it in same way as i argue here

[twilit mountain]

Not Byte's fault people are stupid

[abstract karma]

that's not about stupidity but just not take "price x time" as variable in bought product

[maiden widget]

I bought an Italian cartridge d3 version for 15€ few years back, I wonder where it is now. I feel like some witch doctor

[maiden widget]

That's the norm in anything you buy

Stuff gets cheaper over time

Sometimes rarely even more expensive

[gilded elm]

The facts:

• You bought D2R who knows how many years ago for $40
• Blizzard releases D2R + Warlock DLC bundled together at $40 on Steam and Battle.net
• You have to pay $25 to buy Warlock DLC from Battle.net
• Steam player has to pay $40 (which means their D2R is basically $15)
  Your argument:
  This is robbery.

My counter argument: When did you buy the game, did you even bother to wait for a sale?

[abstract karma]

Tell it to others, i've already said that yes but it's not the point whatever "one was clever that bought it sale or not"

[gilded elm]

I mean if you bought D2R for $40, that suggests if you were a reasonable person you paid that much close to when it was released.

How many years ago was that?

[maiden widget]

What is the point then I can't see one beside irrational anger about a bad decision

[twilit mountain]

My argument is: this is just how things work. It's only in times of digital exclusive games that we haven't seen prices for games go down as they age and that's spearheaded by people like Nintendo and Activision who already chose not to do that.

[warped wren]

Let me throw another spin: have you considered the net present value of the product? $40 in X year isn't the same as $40 today

(I am very bored)

[gilded elm]

Oh god, don't give him ammunition lmao

[warped wren]

[twilit mountain]

I appreciate the ragebait, Ano

[gilded elm]

He really will make the "$40 from back then is worth so much more now" argument

[warped wren]

Yes but then you also need to consider the value of the gaming experience from then till now

[twilit mountain]

5 years ago. I'm not an economist but I don't think 5 years of inflation is like, that drastic.

[warped wren]

Which means, in all seriousness, that all this is an enormous waste of time and you should buy it if you enjoy it or ragebait others if you don't

[abstract karma]

again point of this disccusion was and is and (And as saying many people which bough game for original price whatever it was initital date or before current infernal version)
that TOTAL price for just higher and f.. economics it that simple numbers

[twilit mountain]

Time to engage in "the game was better when we had less classes" arguments even though I wasn't even alive for that

[gilded elm]

Yeah, not sure. But paying $40 for D2R must've been really close to the release date. Seeing this much of a price drop in 5 years seems totally normal too.

[maiden widget]

Factorio inflation argument oh no

D2r and D4 both had huge price drops after 3 months iirc

[warped wren]

Ex dee dee

[warped wren]

These young whippersnappers

[maiden widget]

Paid 35 for D4 on season 2 release

[gilded elm]

I too get irrationally upset at developers when they halve the price of a game that's been released for 2-3+ years, it really feels like robbery.

[warped wren]

Me on my way to spend ~$15 tomorrow to buy a Cadian Kasrkin skin in Darktide tomorrow baiting others about purchase decisions

[twilit mountain]

I got D4 for free (Dream's dad is a huge Diablo fan and got it for both of us). Frankly if I had the money at the time I would have paid full price with no regrets.

[maiden widget]

I'm just saying I am disappointed in the lack of ogryn in your decision

[warped wren]

I have a bunch of Ogryn stuff

Including the current fancy tech armor set idr the name

And the Steel Legion plate

[maiden widget]

Nice

[warped wren]

Big man needs big buffs though

[maiden widget]

Big man doing big maffs and some grenades though

Sound design of the grenade launcher alone is good enough for me to just use it

[twilit mountain]

Dream: "Wait until you learn how many times I've bought Skyrim and not regretted it."

(She left her phone downstairs)

[gilded elm]

I bought this game when it was 50% off, I can't believe it's 85% off now! Am I being robbed?

Okay I'm done lol

[warped wren]

Ah yes, Skyrim remaster rereleased platinum golden remastered repeated redone reptilian edition

[maiden widget]

I wonder if the new class in D2r got sprites for the classic view though

I assume they must have done it

[fervent hazel]

skyrim is probably still the best you can get from bethesda, because they'll ruin the new elder scrolls or wont release it with the state their in now

[twilit mountain]

"The Hist speaks plainly of you, Anomandaris-In-Light." -Dream

[warped wren]

I have some version of Skyrim lying around but never really played it

Not a big fan of ultra open world sandbox type games

Need a bit of structure personally

[fervent hazel]

i admit i fell asleep halfway during morrowind

seemed empty and exploitable

[twilit mountain]

So you just don't like TES?

[fervent hazel]

i played a good chunk of elder scrolls online though

the other players competing with me motivated me to push on

[gilded elm]

Inability to play sandbox games is one of the signs of a dad gamer :Sadge:

[twilit mountain]

Wait. So you're saying Skyrim is the best you'll get from them... while praising a post-Skyrim game from them?

This does not compute

[fervent hazel]

i did play skyrim, the only one i liked. morrowind and oblivion didnt do it, although i havent tried the remaster

[twilit mountain]

Yeah buddy I think you just don't like the games, not that Bethesda is like failing you or anything

[fervent hazel]

bethesda is failing from mismanagement, and the whole starfield debacle, they're in the same spot as obsidian now

[warped wren]

My biggest point of gaming depression rn is having BG3, Rogue Trader AND DOS2 installed but being terrified of the time and energy commitment required for any of them

[abstract karma]

Funny since many TES fans will tell you Morrrowin is way better than Anything later they released

[twilit mountain]

I mean, I guess? Starfield is a fine game, but that's the issue. It's just fine.

[gilded elm]

True, but the good news is you can save in the middle of basically anything for all of those games, even mid combat

[warped wren]

I remember being super excited for Starfield to the point of considering buying a 2nd hand Xbox to be able to play it on launch

[fervent hazel]

i get my info mostly from content creator, reviews and general consensus before i buy anything. if something gives off too much negative vibes, i wont play it

[twilit mountain]

Oh okay, you're clueless

[warped wren]

Glad I took my time watching live streams and stuff lmao

[twilit mountain]

Opinions discarded

[fervent hazel]

it doesnt matter, 95% when the end results comes in, im right. saved me a lot of time skipping skippable games

[gilded elm]

Starfield unfortunately suffers from more than just too many loading screens.

The game just lacked depth in general, except for the outpost stuff.

[warped wren]

There is an EXTREMELY complex game I have that I REALLY want to get into, because it's like the single most realistic simulation of humanity's possible encounters with aliens

But it's so insanely complex that I haven't been able to get into it

Terra Invicta

[fervent hazel]

another thing that helps is watching longplays, so you get a general idea where a company is going

before wasting money and time

[solemn harness]

I experienced way too many bugs and noticed way too much copy+paste content in Starfield, ended up just deleting it permanently after around 30 hours trying to find the fun

3 planets in a row all having the exact same outpost layout was what did it for me

[gilded elm]

It's basically "Secret Society Diplomacy Simulator" in the early phases of the game. I've not done a playthrough where I got out into space yet.

[warped wren]

Apparently phase 2 is the best

When you first start the colonization and ship building and stuff

[gilded elm]

Yeah, they have options for speeding up the game so you reach phase 2 quicker

Since a lot of people like to just focus on that part of teh game, apparently

[warped wren]

And phase 3 I have heard is still rough and kind of a drag

Idk the game is so god damn dense with info

[gilded elm]

It's a cool concept, particularly because it's based on Earth and present day geopolitics

Countries in the game are (or should be) roughly mirrored from their real world counterparts in terms of politics and economy.

[warped wren]

I think it goes a little overboard with opacity and complexity

Basically ever since the Mass Effect trilogy I have been looking for a game to replicate that feeling and I'm still searching

And likely will continue searching

[gilded elm]

Witcher 3, maybe? :P

Unless you mean sci-fi

[warped wren]

Scifi

[jovial bane]

And some other stuff like being able to go to NG+, but lose outposts which require insane time investment. Crafting being a step back from F4. But it would be a long list of small things

[gilded elm]

Owlcat's upcoming Expanse game, I think it's called Orisis? You might be interested in that.

[jovial bane]

IMO THE problem with that game is the setting. Space is mostly empty

[warped wren]

Mass Effect was peak man. I know a lot of people have justifiable gripes with ME3 ending but other than that, it had the BEST combat out of all of them by far, and had excellent conclusions to most character arcs

[jovial bane]

I hated the opening sequence of ME3, and ending is obvious. But otherwise it was an amazing game

[sand wigeon]

I bought Starfield full price. I didn't watch any trailers, I didn't listen to what others were saying. I had a wonderful time. I thought it was a fine, fun sandbox game and a lot of the issues people talk about now I simply didn't experience, perhaps because I'm very familiar with Bethesda's style and knew what to expect. I think people mostly overhyped themselves on Starfield.

[warped wren]

Comical that even the worst parts of OG Mass Effect are more engaging than Andromeda

[sand wigeon]

I'm going to be real, and the uncs in chat will flay me, Mass Effect isn't good and it's not even fun

[gilded elm]

Todd overhyped Starfield, hard.

[jovial bane]

It was fine perfectly sums it up. Probably overpriced, and that's about it

[gilded elm]

You may have missed it because you tuned out Starfield news.

[warped wren]

You're entitled to your opinion lol

[jovial bane]

Andromeda is not as bad as people make it to be. It's fine

[sand wigeon]

Obviously Mass Effect was great for the time but going back and trying to play it now without a proper remake is... rough

[jovial bane]

But that's it

[warped wren]

I genuinely gave it a shot not once, not twice, but three times

It did not stick.

[jovial bane]

fair enough

[sand wigeon]

I had difficulties even getting it to run on my system, and that's setting aside the controls, stinted goals, lack of direction and some more problems I could point out

[warped wren]

The Legendary Edition is a full remaster

[sand wigeon]

That's what I played

[warped wren]

But even then, ME1 has jank

[gilded elm]

I don't think Starfield was a bad game, just a mid one. Todd definitely made it sound like something so absolutely insane I don't know how he thought what they delivered would live up to the expectations he was setting for us.

[warped wren]

And yeah I can get that that's hard to get past for younger audiences

You need a certain amount of nostalgia to play ME1

[sand wigeon]

I mean I'm no stranger to awful control schemes

[jovial bane]

I think Andromeda stuck with me, because I liked that kind of space opera more. As in trying to be "exploration of cosmos", rather than military focus of the OG.

[sand wigeon]

I thought Andromeda was good though

Often when I played the original ME trilogy I'd get to combat or missions or whatever and just want it to be over so I can go back to picking dialogue boxes, at least in Andromeda the combat was kinda fun

[warped wren]

Andromeda did not hook me AT ALL right from the get go, because the premise itself had a gaping plothole

[jovial bane]

Also worse than F4. Which is the problem I have with Bethesda

[warped wren]

And it's very hard to get past something so basic after experiencing the peak of ME storywriting

[jovial bane]

yeah, I get that

[abstract karma]

and unfortuneally one of a few games locked behind anouther linked accounts >.>

[twilit mountain]

I have found the most disorienting game

[sand wigeon]

I think ME suffers from "good for it's time" nostalgia, whereas people nowadays look at it and go "not all that good"

[warped wren]

Eh?

What linked account

[sand wigeon]

I have played much better sci-fi games now but they obviously weren't around at the time

[twilit mountain]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3283860/REPEATER/

[jovial bane]

hmm ? Can you give couple of examples ? I feel like I was under the rock for some time

[abstract karma]

you need make account to even play that game some EA

[sand wigeon]

is that %#*@ing shadow tower abyss

[warped wren]

Probably. Would say the same about Dragon Age Origins. Absolutely stellar when it came out, complete jankfest if you compare it to RPGs now.

[gilded elm]

40k is a great setting for narrative sci-fi action adventure RPGs, too bad most of the attempts have been pretty bad.

[sand wigeon]

yeah gimme a few

[sand wigeon]

oh my gods

it is

[warped wren]

Meant this for what Dream said

[sand wigeon]

yeah, i played dragon age on xbox 360 and it was fun, but i don't think i could go back now and rly enjoy it

[jovial bane]

even Rogue Trader is ... kind of subpar at times. Nevermind it has nothing to do with Rogue Trader system other than having D100

[warped wren]

Oh that. It was so trivial and unobtrusive I don't even remember. You really do get hung up about the most minor gripes eh?

[abstract karma]

well its just annoying for many games

Rather would play original games on gog without any ties on it

[warped wren]

Tbh even I would find it challenging, since the genre has moved so far. But at the time, it really was groundbreaking in quite a few ways

[gilded elm]

Yeah Rogue Trader isn't a consistently smooth ride, but it's definitely one of the better 40k video game adaptations (from a lore and gameplay perspective) IMO

[twilit mountain]

Titanfall 2 needs an EA account and I don't think I've ever heard a Titanfall fan even mention it.

[warped wren]

Darktide and Space Marine 2 are absolutely peak 40K adaptations

Absolutely, faultlessly peak

[jovial bane]

I've kind of bounced off it, but now that I accept it for what it is. It's pretty good fun.

[gilded elm]

I haven't played much Darktide but SM2 is peak for sure

[warped wren]

(In terms of adaptation, faultless, not the game lmao)

[gilded elm]

SM2 is so perfectly adapted that GW is using it to push forward the entire franchise lore

[warped wren]

I really should dust off SM2 again before Techmarine launch but negotiating PS5 usage times with my wife is just gonna be a headache

[warped wren]

Darktide is unironically a better game in a lot of ways but because it had a disastrous launch and no space marines, it's been relegated to a tiny niche

[gilded elm]

Lion finally getting ready to meet Guilliman, and that lore developed in connection with Titus' story from SM2. It's crazy that something so huge is happening and it's a video game character that's making it happen.

[warped wren]

I played SM2 for ~70 hrs at launch and could almost solo carry the hardest difficulty on Bulwark, Vanguard and Tactical

In comparison, I have played Darktide over 700 hrs and I'm about mediocre

[sand wigeon]

If we limit the selection to exclusively sci-fi, but not to specific genres or game sizes:

Griftlands
No Man's Sky
Helldivers 1/2
System Shock Remake
AC6
Elite Dangerous
Cross Code
Hardspace Shipbreaker
Alters
Dyson Sphere Program

These are all games I'd personally say are better, though they vary a lot in game goal and game size compared to a massive trilogy like Mass Effect (personal bias: I often prefer shorter games)

[gilded elm]

I notice Darktide has its ups and downs when it comes to community opinion on their updates and DLCs. But I always enjoyed their YT videos because I watch them for the lore itself, they have been great at bringing 40k to life with all of the voice over and animated work they do to promote Darktide.

[warped wren]

Darktide's community is dogshit.

Simple as

[jovial bane]

Hmm, yeah we had good sci-fi games. Most of them I agree with

System Shock Remake was great

[warped wren]

Outside of the class Discord channels, 99.9% of Darktide players are morons who could not find their own arses in the dark when equipped with a flashlight and a butt plug

[abstract karma]

still waiting on remake second one since remaster is from these devs done

[sand wigeon]

(My personal favorites from this would be Griftlands, Helldivers 1, AC6, System Shock Remake and No Man's Sky)

[fervent hazel]

system shock was almost great, i would give it a 10/10 if they took a lot of that 90's jank out, but regardless i did beat it

[jovial bane]

Griftlands was underwhelming for me. But Oxygen Not Included is another Klei sci-fi game I fell in love with.

[gilded elm]

Maybe it's because Darktide is more accessible to casual, non-40k fans? People who just wanna do co-op shooter gameplay.

[jovial bane]

It wasn't a bad game, just happened to play Slay the Spire and I think Monster Train back then. And comparison is the thief of joy

[warped wren]

Probably. Also HD2's launch revived (and poisoned) the whole hordeshooter genre

[twilit mountain]

AC6 mentioned! WTF is coherent series expansive lore!!!????

[sand wigeon]

I hate Helldivers 2 I hate Helldivers 2 I hate Helldivers 2 I hate Helldivers 2 I hate Helldivers 2

[warped wren]

I legit feel the world would have been better off if that stupid game had died in development

[jovial bane]

Ironically it was 10/10 for me, because of that 90's jank

[sand wigeon]

It's just straight up NOT HELLDIVERS

[gilded elm]

An actually good Starship Troopers horde shooter would be great too :P

[fervent hazel]

"This patch will also be released for GOG and Epic Games later next week. We also have a larger update planned for System Shock remake on PC and consoles in November. Stay tuned!" - apparantly that's the news on steam, interesting

[warped wren]

I don't care about that because what it definitely is is a lodestone for asshats

[jovial bane]

I was about to say that we had two, but I don't think none of them were good

[warped wren]

If I hear No NeRf OnLy BuFf one more time I will bust a vein

[twilit mountain]

Average ARPG fan:

[sand wigeon]

i heard this from the overwatch community recently in regards to the powercreep of the new heroes

[warped wren]

That game basically taught all these clowns that if you review bomb hard enough you can make devs do anything

[sand wigeon]

i weeped

solemnly.

[jovial bane]

Interesting

[twilit mountain]

We should kill Emre I think

[fervent hazel]

underrail 2 will be the kind of game that im really waiting for, the opposition against the triple aaa stuff i dont care about

[sand wigeon]

honestly yeah Emre is by far the worst of them

[warped wren]

Look at their profile and confirm if they're an HD2 player

I bet 9/10 chance

[sand wigeon]

Mizuki has one annoying thing and one questionable thing, Domina is honestly fine after playing against her for a bit, Anran was always okay just very mobile, and Jetpack Cat can be left alone aside from maybe the ult and tweaking unique melee numbers

[jovial bane]

Hilariously enough other than Divinity and Witcher 4 I'm not waiting for any game i particular. Even this year's relase wait for me it was just stupid gacha game lol

[sand wigeon]

Excuse me

Endfield is good (once you get past the tutorials)

[jovial bane]

IT IS

[sand wigeon]

I do not tolerate Arknights slander

[warped wren]

My backlog is too big to wait for new games

[twilit mountain]

Domina does still need some tuning, her ult is kinda bullshit and her barrier has way too short of a CD for how gigantic it is.

[sand wigeon]

rein clicks right click

[gilded elm]

You should probably just play Idle games at this point, no more time to play anything anyway 🤷‍♂️

[junior oyster]

Sts2, grim dawn expansion, d4 dlc, trails in the sky sc remake for me

[twilit mountain]

Melvor 2 this year!!!

[sand wigeon]

well there were some big idle game drops actually

I think terraformental released

that's more an active idle gamne tho

[warped wren]

Stuff like Darktide is easy to jump in and out of. Also playing Chaosgate Daemonhunters occasionally, or Shape of Dreams

[sand wigeon]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3762790/Terraformental/

[warped wren]

Eventually I will start one of the CRPGs I have

[jovial bane]

oh shi STS2 is this year ?
Okay, I have something to wait for then

[sand wigeon]

(story based puzzle idle game)

[warped wren]

Probably in March to take my mind away from PoE

[junior oyster]

Early access that was promised last year lol

[jovial bane]

I've missed it tbh, too many relases

[junior oyster]

But it releases some time this march

[gilded elm]

I will say... leveling up in Rogue Trader is a chore.

[jovial bane]

I guess Kingmaker is another game I'm interesting

[fervent hazel]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3571870/Darkhaven/ dont forget to wishlist this one too

[gilded elm]

You spend a lot of time picking and choosing stuff in each character's level-up screen in Rogue Trader. It's true in BG3 as well, but far less time spent in level-up screens in BG3 comparably.

[jovial bane]

and it has nothing to do with leveling in RT

In RT you gain exp, you spend it on stuff from the table, which is say +10 to characteristic feat

and that's it

[junior oyster]

Rooster teeth?

Kidding

[jovial bane]

But Owlcat in Owlcat Trader for some reason homebrewed like hundreds of feats

[junior oyster]

Also I've been playing the monster train 2 dlc

[gilded elm]

Yeah, dunno about the table top, but the CRPG definitely has way more depth. Specific passives and actives to select etc

[junior oyster]

Which came out recently

[jovial bane]

and hilariously enough also cut down targeting body parts making it slightly less deep

But it's coming back in DH, so that's good

[junior oyster]

I'm aware the mt games look too mobile like though

[jovial bane]

Monster Train is peak roguelike card game

[warped wren]

For the first time ever in my life, I am actually looking forward to a Total War game

[jovial bane]

And the reason why Griftlands disappointed me

[gilded elm]

Same

[warped wren]

Grand strategy usually isn't my thing (other than maybe Civ6) but TW 40k is looking nuts

[gilded elm]

Never thought I'd buy another Total War game after Shogun 2.

[jovial bane]

Space Battles is one thing I wish they did

[jovial bane]

Warhammer Total War is peak

But also stupidly expensive

[gilded elm]

Yeah I figure, I just never got into Warhammer Fantasy/AoS

[warped wren]

The issue with space battles is, if you do them accessibly it's just Sins of a Solar Empire / Stellaris / whatever all over again. If you do them realistically then nobody will play lmfao

[jovial bane]

True.
I just think they should be Gothic Armada. Generally accessible

[junior oyster]

Also I'm late to the party but d2r dlc

I'm more interested in the fact they added qol

They can't replace my boi necro

[gilded elm]

40k space battles with... Blackstone Fortresses :D

[jovial bane]

rumor says second D4 class will be Warlock as well

[maiden widget]

Didn't they confirm that

[warped wren]

Cadian PTSD intensifies

[gilded elm]

If by rumor you mean trailer, yes

[junior oyster]

Anything is better than boremazon

[maiden widget]

The mobile game also gets the class in addition to d4

[jovial bane]

Oh, I've missed the trailer then lmao

I was at datamined stuff news

[junior oyster]

Ofc d3 is left to rot

We'll never get a remaster

[gilded elm]

Warlock is a class now in D2R and also coming to Diablo Immortal and D4

[maiden widget]

Idk if it needs one right now

[fervent hazel]

warlock is the shit, i love the movies with julian sands

[maiden widget]

D3 still feels fine to me, I just wish we got the controller UI on pc

[gilded elm]

Who knows, maybe D3 will get a remaster.

[fervent hazel]

they basically stole the baal/marius scene where he takes the stone and the hand lights up from warlock 2 1993

[warped wren]

Yk, one game I would buy in a heartbeat if it ever came back

This weird, niche, browser game called Iron Grip Marauders

It was a browser based tactical game (like XCOM) with some idler elements

That game was the shit

Sadly it just didn't grow and the studio shut down

[gilded elm]

I'll vibe code it for you with Grok. How much you payin'?

[warped wren]

Will you take a toonie to NOT code it in that case

[jovial bane]

tfw you realise yanderedev was vibecoding with grok, before grok was even a thing

[warped wren]

That game had actually excellent art and pretty decent writing for its units

And a really well done steampunk vibe

[gilded elm]

There's that one Chess engine that tries to play the worst chess moves only. I wonder if there's an equivalent to that but for LLMs.

It might be Grok.

[warped wren]

Probably copilot

[gilded elm]

lol

[jovial bane]

yeah, copilot would be my bet as well

[warped wren]

Afaik copilot is so terrible that Microsoft's internal teams just use Anthropic

[jovial bane]

I just don't really see that big of a difference between grok, gemini and chatgpt

[gilded elm]

Oh yeah, so I heard as well lmao

[jovial bane]

Copilot ? Yeah, that's whole another level

[fierce moth]

Get well rest finally. Slept for other 4h on day.

It become a truth hhhhhh

(I remembered Fane said what about if my friend delete their discord account)

[maiden widget]

Claude and gemini2 seem the most useful of the bunch to me. The copilot plugin for jetbrains is super bad though, Microslop quality.

[fierce moth]

The lucky thing is I connect with him on the other app

[gilded elm]

For writing code, yeah I think Claude is still #1 on leaderboards

[maiden widget]

It's also less annoying and chatty

[gilded elm]

By default yeah, though that you can just tune with a system prompt.

That said, they're good at writing code... but they're not good at writing code across large projects, and worse yet at actually maintaining those large projects.

[junior oyster]

Honestly I'm kinda surprised they charging 25 dollars and not more loo

Lol

[gilded elm]

Context is a huge limiting factor.

[junior oyster]

I'm aware there isn't any new campaign or something but still

[gilded elm]

Jimothy the Warlock, named after one of my cats in Mewgenics lol

[maiden widget]

And deadly with kinda bad engineers who can't gauge when it spews bullshit. Dealing with that daily at work now

[jade jackal]

Catching up to the Diablo event

After a nasty long sleep

Seems like they did everything right, good

[gilded elm]

Yeah, I find they're more useful for solving small localized problems. Something that might require writing a one-off script or tool, reformatting a piece of text or code according to specific requirements, or generating boilerplate/scaffolding code.

[maiden widget]

Yeah they're useful if you know what you do and 10x maintenance of mediocre Devs. It's a bit rough imo

[gilded elm]

Yep, good as a tool to augment someone who knows what they're doing. Bad when someone tries to use it to do the whole job, that's going to start to backfire spectacularly for companies going all into vibe coding. They're just piling up so much unmaintainable garbage that they have no other choice but to collapse under the sheer weight of it.

It's kind of funny that we sell cloud infrastructure (including GPU) but we're fairly anti-"using AI to write your code" at our company.

[maiden widget]

it's the only sane choice currently imo

[jade jackal]

Never get high on your own supply

[fierce moth]

I discovered a inspiring video, the difference of this video is it's so inspiring that I can't go on watching because half of length is enough for thinking so much

Familiar suffocate feeling from overwhelming info I receive

https://youtu.be/R_UPtszzEGI?si=F0pzpq0RxQUekEuC
⬆️

Maybe it can inspire someone too

[jovial bane]

I swear that's the problem with LLMs in general.
They have a model that's very good at guessing the next word to type in, but they think it's the same as sentient AI from sci-fi

[jade jackal]

I got into my first LLM-reliant startup in 2017 and honestly, seing the devolvment of both its perception and the abuse of it to market fake hype has been a ride

[gilded elm]

You should see r/ChatGPT, it's filled with people who are emotionally dependent on LLMs and have deluded themselves into believing they're sentient.

[jade jackal]

The circle of LLM reliant businesses pre 2021 was entirely different

from produce quality check, to railway collision avoidance and traffic hour monitoring

The dream of using advanced algorithms to save lives and make things better was still the main goal behind driving it

before turning quite upside down

[gilded elm]

LLM-reliant... in 2017? Google's paper on Transformers was released in 2017 and ChatGPT v1 was released in 2022. There were companies investing into LLMs pre-Transformers? o.O

[jade jackal]

LLM reliant in 2017

we used GTX 1080 cards to train this stuff

The startup itself started being LLM reliant in 2016

[gilded elm]

So it was before Transformers

Since the paper that actually made modern-day LLMs possible wasn't published until 2017

[jade jackal]

It was all locally annotated, locally trained

Most of the code was homebrewed

The first GPUs that the business used to train its models were GTX 980 cards lol

A field experiments team collected data weekly

the product was an edge system for railway collision avoidance, driver assistance, and switchyard improvement

it included subject detection with distance marking

[maiden widget]

I'm normally pretty chill but the way they prey on people with the inbuilt "whoa what a novel take Mr. Genius" bullshit for mundane things makes me boil

[maiden widget]

Sounds like you mean basic/classic machine learning here

[gilded elm]

Sounds closer to machine learning than a language model (I mean, it's all machine learning, but it sounds less like a language model)

If you had said machine learning for "railway collision avoidance" that would have made like 10x more sense

Because I can't see how an LLM is useful there

The concept of an LLM wasn't even in any practical use until Google published the Transformer architecture.

And even then, that took years, until eventually ChatGPT released.

[jade jackal]

I guess it was more of an LM than an LLM

Not so large

The usecases were quite binary

[gilded elm]

I'd still be skeptical it was a language model at all or had anything to do with NLP (natural language processing)

Sounds closer to training a model on a bunch of data to help make decisions that prevent railway collisions

Basically classic machine learning like Faust said

So instead of dealing with language, it probably deals with very specific kinds of inputs.

Similar things at a high-level, conceptually. Training a model, inferencing on that model.

[gilded elm]

You're absolutely right! I never thought of it like that, maybe you're a genius.

I should've included an emdash in there somewhere.

[maiden widget]

[jovial bane]

It's donut day today, and they are sold at 2-5 cents each, when bought in packs of 6. Should I be concerned ?

[maiden widget]

[desert jasper]

Tbh I might get the warlock thingy for d2 when it goes on sale.
Not in any rush to play it really

[fierce moth]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/timothée-mathon-41896b158_alright-the-monster-nikita-gritsun-just-ugcPost-7426668076223479808-8y8r?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android&rcm=ACoAAER65uEBo4zPRvDA_sHGcdJXpE3MC_YKGqs

Epic achievement this pro get, he deserves the best job.

His current work is my future target.

[fierce moth]

(... Maybe I jump in the trap that want to prove my value by sharing pro's life and artworks otherwise I'm useless)

[indigo shadow]

MTOU Chronicles SKeletor looks cool as F

[junior oyster]

Too bad movie is most likely going to be a flop

Do I want it to flop? Nah
Do I think it will? Yea...

[indigo shadow]

Yeah,it might get flop

but not as people might think I hope not

[obtuse rune]

I'll watch it because give me fun movies

[junior oyster]

My issue is the whole but he was sent to Earth cliché. I just wish they could have it be in its own world

I forgot their world name lol

[junior oyster]

I only watch specific movies at the cinema so I'll wait for the movie to come out on Amazon to rent it

[indigo shadow]

I'm in the fandom and too deep but the earth cliche is like 20-25% of the movie.

especially ||Evil Lyn disguise as one of Adam's professors||

But my problem is only Fans will watch the movie

if we're counting fans around the world, or Western? the box office will reach like 25m compared to the budget. that's tops on Western He-man fans

I mean not western, English speaking.

it's not like wow where they need China's revenue and profits to succeed in Warcraft 2016 movie

[junior oyster]

I forgot that movie was made

[indigo shadow]

Here's the thing: East Asian wow fans never hate that movie. 😂

It's like the "Big in Tokyo" tropes

[junior oyster]

Yea I forgot about it probably because I don't care about wow lol

[indigo shadow]

I wouldn't mind if in 20 years, it would be a cult classics, like Super Mario Bros 1993 & Mortal Kombat movies in the 90's

I'm the few minority that a fan of 93 SMB movie

[obtuse rune]

I also forgot about that movie haha

I absolutely love the Mortal Kombat movies

Soundtrack and action will remain in my heart as I recall it in theaters

Do any of you have any core theater or movie memories growing up?

[twilit mountain]

I'm not much of a movie watcher, and I was too poor to afford theathers lol

[ebon meadow]

I had a library with around 450+ VHS tapes

[celest tulip]

Fear Factory soundtrack in MK 👌

[ebon meadow]

Mortal combat and TMNT movies are my memorys

Also was a fan of horror so elm street ,omen

[celest tulip]

I wasn't a fan of the TMNT movies even with Vanilla Ice. I like the original 80's cartoon

Dream Warriors!

[ebon meadow]

Cartoon was lit

I preferred it over spider man even

[celest tulip]

Amazing Spiderman and Friends was good especially when the X-Men were on it sometimes

I also watched a lot of Macross and Voltron

[ebon meadow]

X men was good I think I still have a crash on Rogue

I also liked a lot of kung Fu movies back as a child

Wu tang

[celest tulip]

Enter the Dragon

Ninja 2 The Domination

[obtuse rune]

TMNT VHS were the coolest.

They had the green and orange colors

really really cool

[celest tulip]

go ninja go ninja go

[indigo shadow]

MOTU 87 was a little campy

but at least we got Courteney Cox

I think 70% of the movie were about earth with 2 earthling intertwine with Skeletor vs He-man

I saw the castle, I saw the jawbridge, I saw prince adam with pink shirt and slim pants. with teela not being horrendous, and Idris Elba as manatarms

[celest tulip]

Suburban Commando

[junior oyster]

What a scam lol

They should auto apply the discount if you buy the infernal edition

[gilded elm]

What discount?

[junior oyster]

If you already own D2R you can still 'upgrade' to the infernal edition

[gilded elm]

Yes, D2R base game + Reign of the Warlock = Infernal Edition

[junior oyster]

Problem is there is a cheaper option but they don't actually directly show it to you

[gilded elm]

They shouldn't let you buy the Infernal Edition for yourself if you already own D2R. Do they?

[warped wren]

Are we having the robbery(tm) discussion again

[junior oyster]

Yes this or do what steam does

Give a discount on the stuff you already own

[gilded elm]

Sounds like Fane is saying Blizzard lets you buy Infernal Edition even if you already own the base game (which they definitely shouldn't allow unless it's for gifting)

That's at least reasonable than last night's robbery argument lmao

[junior oyster]

Unless I click on that and it applies a discount of sorts lol

I don't think I wanna risk it xD

Unless I'm mistaken there is NO difference between infernal and WotR packages if you already own d2r

[gilded elm]

Click it. It's obviously not going to charge without a confirmation screen.

[desert jasper]

Instant charge, gg rip

[junior oyster]

Ok my bad

I missed the green update button

Upgrade*

It takes you to the £21.99 option

[gilded elm]

Makes sense. So in the worst case it's actually just bad marketing on Blizzard's part, because it creates confusion.

[junior oyster]

Yea so when you click on the shop icon in the app and scroll down it shows you these two side by side

[gilded elm]

Yep, it's fairly dumb to have that as the front page of the D2R shop for people who have the base game already.

[junior oyster]

I think it should say for the first one D2R + warlock. And the other one should say 'must have D2R'

[gilded elm]

Just show them the DLC which is cheaper

[junior oyster]

Just little bits of info that would perhaps not cause as much confusion

Either that or I was just pure dumb lol

[obtuse rune]

Ah, Diablo 2. Such fond memories.

[maiden widget]

apparently the new char has no classic display which is kind of a bummer

[gilded elm]

I think for good UX, they should just make it clear that Infernal Edition exists but you can't buy it because you already have the base game, you buy the DLC and your D2R becomes Infernal Edition. They just need to make that clearer.

[junior oyster]

Yea

Maybe if we tried to go further with the infernal edition the shop might say that I dunno

But I don't wanna go through payment details to find out lol

[gilded elm]

The shop already prevents you from buying the Infernal Edition if you have D2R base game, so at least that's a thing. It's just silly to "in your face" promote Infernal Edition with a price tag to potential customers who already have the base game. It's useless noise on the shop.

[junior oyster]

Does it prevent you?

I see the buy option but didn't click further lol

Ah yea

I assume they auto change it to the other option

[gilded elm]

Yeah, because it would truly be scummy if they did allow people with the base game to purchase the whole Infernal Edition

[maiden widget]

if they did they'd probably also isse a refund if you messaged them

[junior oyster]

I just wish it was possible to move D2R and D4 onto steam without purchasing new copies lol

And I don't mean 'add a non-steam game'

[gilded elm]

I think this is difficult because they can't easily link a Steam key to a Battle.net account.

[junior oyster]

Yea I know

I hate having more launchers xD

[gilded elm]

Yeah

[maiden widget]

wait for a sale and buy it on steam would be my solution

[junior oyster]

Nah I only play diablo like once or twice a year

Not worth buying on steam

[gilded elm]

What annoys me though is that you do have to buy all the DLC you want to play on Steam. For example if you have D4 base game + VoH on Bnet, but only D4 base game on Steam... then on Steam you can only play the base game lol

[junior oyster]

I'll miss out on the achievements though dang

[junior oyster]

Yea...

It's D4 + LoH now btw

[maiden widget]

makes sense though

[gilded elm]

With Steam, they could've just taken the DLC approach where owning a DLC simply grants the license to play that DLC on your linked Bnet account and just make the content available in the base game (but locked). That way if I buy expansions from Bnet, I can still play them from Steam even though I only have the base game on there, because it should be tied to the license of my Bnet account

[junior oyster]

Would it not work if it was account based?

[gilded elm]

They could have chosen not to screw people (who already own DLC through Bnet) with DLC purchases on Steam.

I understand requiring an initial purchase for the base game, though

[junior oyster]

Make D4 'free', if you purchased D4 on bnet, login and play

If not you need to purchase the game + dlc

I guess it wouldn't work though

[gilded elm]

Can't really make the base game itself free because you don't know if that player is giving away that Steam key to a friend

[maiden widget]

does that work with any other kind of launcher

[gilded elm]

I'm not actually sure, can't really remember. I try to avoid games that have their own launcher.

[maiden widget]

iirc you cant just create infinite keys to give away on steam

[gilded elm]

But it's common for games to include DLC content into the base game files itself. The only thing the DLC does is "unlock" the content.

[maiden widget]

yeah but thats not the interesting part

[junior oyster]

Steam and bnet are the only launchers I've had since pretty much the beginning

[gilded elm]

Blizzard can decide whether to unlock the content based on the DLC tied to your Battle.net account. Because even when playing through Steam, your Steam account still needs to be linked to a Battle.net account.

[maiden widget]

its not a tech issue its a what does steam allow issue

[gilded elm]

True, it could be that Steam has some policies on this sort of thing too.

[maiden widget]

kinda annoying that us corpas always adapt prices in euros up when the dollar is strong but never down - addon shouldnt be 25€ imo

[sudden anchor]

When you are banned in diablo, do you need to rebuy basegame + dlc or just basegame, if you play on steam?

[warped wren]

Why are you banned

[desert jasper]

Can you even buy the base game without the dlc on steam?

[maiden widget]

no

[gilded elm]

For what it's worth, this is what I was thinking. Used Claude to articulate it better. Basically from a policy perspective, I think this should be fine if the player is redeeming keys for the base game and all the DLCs.

[maiden widget]

sorry but i am not reading claude responses in a chat with people

[gilded elm]

I can vouch for the correctness of the response.

[sudden anchor]

I was banned for bugabuse (you could get every passive, instead of only the standard 3 or 4), in d3 tho. It surprised me, I only had to rebuy the basegame (battlenet) and they let me use my CE Reaper of Souls.

[warped wren]

me on my way to spend hard-earned adult money to play dress-up in a video game

[gilded elm]

My favorite pasttime back when I still played Lost Ark

[warped wren]

money well spent surely xdd

[silent steeple]

So I guess ppl here are busy with D2

[fierce moth]

🥱 or busy at sleeping

[stone anvil]

busy at sleeping 👆