📚┃off-topic

[twilit mountain]

Stray was reviewed pretty well, it's main issue is that it's kinda short for the price tag

[gilded elm]

One of my screenshots lol

[sand wigeon]

I’m not big on cozy games, so

[gilded elm]

Ah, yeah def not your jam then. It's a glorified hat collector game haha

The Wuchang boss fight was sick

[sand wigeon]

I mostly play single-player story-first games

[junior oyster]

My fav cozy game definitely is slay the spire xD

[sand wigeon]

That’s not a cozy game

[fierce moth]

🤔 I'm will curious about why 3A games from China focus on action soul-like game. Yes, it's still can grab huge influence whatever game they made, just do the best on the quality, but I'm not the player who good at action games so games like wukong and wuchang will mean

"ok they're Chinese games, Chinese games have outreaching on international platforms, Chinese prove they can make excellent games like Americans and Europeans" for me more. I know the game but I will not play. 3a games are too expensive for me plus

[gilded elm]

cozy?

[twilit mountain]

I think that might be a joke?

[gilded elm]

haha

[sand wigeon]

I know, I just don’t care

[junior oyster]

Yea defo not a cozy game

[sand wigeon]

Lots of Chinese series have focused on over-the-shoulder action, just look at Dynasty Warriors

[junior oyster]

It makes me rage quit sometimes lol

[twilit mountain]

Pretty sure Dynasty Warriors is Japanese

[gilded elm]

Dynasty Warriors (the WARRIORS franchise entirely) are Japanese-made games, but yeah Dynasty is specifically set in Chinese lore.

KOEI Tecmo, Team Ninja specifically.

Team Ninja is goated

[twilit mountain]

Okay didn't realize that part

What a weird assortment of games they've got

[sand wigeon]

Oh my bad

[gilded elm]

You can see a lot of similarities in all games/franchises they've worked on, even for other companies. Nioh, Samurai Warriors, Dynasty Warriors, Ninja Gaiden, Stranger of Paradise (Final Fantasy Origin)

[fierce moth]

But action soul-like games is quite suitable for drama effects in streaming for the entertainment indeed. Streamers will welcome this game genre so I guess wuchang will bring a new wave on Twitch

[gilded elm]

I finished Dynasty Warriors Origins not too long ago, I loved that game. I know it's not accurate history, but it was fun learning more about Chinese history in general. In my playthrough, I sided with Cao Cao haha

[desert jasper]

@twilit mountain did you go to your appointment?

[twilit mountain]

Yeah, it makes sense on thinking about it, it's just not something I connected before now for some reason

[fierce moth]

I interested in architectures only.

[twilit mountain]

Person I had it with injured her back at the appointment just prior to me, she asked me if I wanted to go through with it or reschedule and I told her to go home and relax so she doesn't get more hurt lol

[sage flame]

nioh my goat

was not overly impressed not gonna lie

[desert jasper]

Ouch

[desert jasper]

Love me some Nioh

[sage flame]

chronicon and slormancer are the single player arpg standard for me

and nioh imo is the best soulslike game

[fierce moth]

Chronicon? Good to know

[gilded elm]

I liked Liu Bei, I didn't want to fight him... but I believed Cao Cao was a better leader. I know now though that in Three Kingdoms lore, Liu Bei is seen as the hero and Cao Cao as the villain. Sad haha

[twilit mountain]

Nioh 1 is... uh, it's a video game that's for sure

[fierce moth]

That's quite drama...

[sage flame]

no yeah not nioh 1

definitely nioh 2

and nioh 3 will be open world <33

I would never recommend nioh 1 to anyone not already a fan of nioh 2

[gilded elm]

I went by Steam reviews. Nioh 2 was simply far better reviewed

[sage flame]

it's such an amazing game

[desert jasper]

I still haven't actually played Nioh 2 for longer than an hour

[twilit mountain]

I see this as a negative

[fierce moth]

Oh... Fine. Not a fan of pixel games. So Chronicon and slormancer aren't my tea

[desert jasper]

I tried it when I was drinking

[sage flame]

I don't see them going the ubisoft route

they mentioned factions and lots of things to do

[twilit mountain]

Doesn't matter to me, I don't like open world

[sage flame]

different tastes ig

[desert jasper]

Yeah I've been kinda burnt out on open world

[gilded elm]

I haven't played it much either, been meaning to go back, but yeah I accept some games are initially hard to get into. I have a good feeling about Nioh 2 overall, I liked most of what I saw and experienced, just need to find myself in the right mental state to go back to it.

For now, Wuchang is at the top of my list, gotta decide if I wanna play it with Mandarin audio or English. I like the original better, usually... but I went English for E33 so it's not a strict rule lol

[sage flame]

I won't lie nioh 3 is my most anticipated 2026 game

[twilit mountain]

I have no idea what's slated for next year really

[gilded elm]

I played Wukong with Mandarin audio, and it was beautiful, even though I don't understand it.

[twilit mountain]

I don't keep great tabs on "big" games, usually can't afford em anyway

[sage flame]

I should play wukong sometime

I played enotria and hated more things about it than I liked

[gilded elm]

It's good, not hard like a Souls-like, but still enough challenge and depth to really get into it. The combat is amazing.

[sage flame]

difficulty isn't a big factor for me personally

I don't mind locking in and grinding out a hard boss

and I don't mind an easier game either

if anything alternating is fun

[junior oyster]

Which is why StS is the perfect middle ground game >:

[fierce moth]

Mandarin is beautiful... Well it sounds odd but thanks. Maybe you can listen Cantonese too

I'm curious which one is more beautiful, Mandarin or Cantonese 😆

[thorn nacelle]

Extra they made it so.. to have those dark souls elements

Thats why d4 at release didnt had any option availiable to zoom out either

When Devs Lack skill how to build a game which will soak the Player into it.. they try other stuff to Cover that😉

My opinion is if u are not a nerd or into games better dont study programming or coding games at all. Waste of time😂

[sand wigeon]

Because expanding your horizons and knowledge is a waste of time. Obviously.

[thorn nacelle]

Gaming Ghost of Tsusima for first time and so far found out so many similarities with Wukong. No comments about the New assasin creed..

[sand wigeon]

This is how old people end up stuck in their ways.

The act of learning is never valueless.

[thorn nacelle]

Thats why rpgs or arpgs nowdays suck balls based to the expanding Horizons and microtransactions or dlcs.

[sand wigeon]

They don’t. You’re just stuck in your ways.

ARPG’s are better than ever, really.

[thorn nacelle]

Go check wow cinematic of 2025

Looks worst than cinematic from 2006

I guess u was born then?

🤣

[sand wigeon]

That’s because Blizzard rushes its devs and underpays their workers. That’s because they have one of the worst work environments of any studio. Also, the cinematics don’t look worse, not really.

[sand wigeon]

Born when?

[thorn nacelle]

2006

Why GGG is better?

[sand wigeon]

There’s super exciting releases coming up and lots of ARPG’s are in great states. Look at the recent PoE leagues, they’ve been great. Grim Dawn’s modding scene is as alive as ever. Titan Quest 2 is coming up.

[thorn nacelle]

They bring poe 2 into table and say oh guys we dont have enough ppl we must Focus on poe 1. Why u release poe 2 then?

[sand wigeon]

GGG has better work practices, yes.

[sand wigeon]

PoE 2 is bad, correct.

[thorn nacelle]

If u dont mind u could answer my questions and not say what it fits u better

Ty

[sand wigeon]

I am answering your questions?

I don’t like any of the games I just listed lol

It’s just the reality that these are great options currently

And that people are excited for Titan Quest 2 thanks to its playtest

[thorn nacelle]

So was it 2005 u born?

[sand wigeon]

?

How is that relevant?

[thorn nacelle]

Based to what i read it is

Its not bad to say yes or no

Dont afraid we not from FBI

[sand wigeon]

It is, even in the 90’s people knew not to give your age to strangers online.

[thorn nacelle]

Its just a question sir

You can even lie 🙂

[sand wigeon]

Do you know how not to harass people?

[twilit mountain]

Zanzil stop pushing for personal info, it makes you look like an ass

[sand wigeon]

It’s simple. You accept “no.”

Douchebag lol

[thorn nacelle]

I pass didnt know its harrasement to ask somebody if its born 2005

🤣

[sand wigeon]

Oh my gods.

[thorn nacelle]

Keep in mind when u Show with your small Finger somebody 3 fingers pointing at you

[sand wigeon]

What does that mean lol

That is incomprehensible

[thorn nacelle]

Who looks like an ass is different Story. Laters lol

[sand wigeon]

He was having a bad day apparently

[thorn nacelle]

Not really just asked a normal question

Didnt know its a harrasment

Apologies

[sand wigeon]

It’s not harassment to ask someone’s age, but it is when you repeat it again and again after being told that the person you’re asking doesn’t want to answer

It’s as simple as accepting “no” as “no”

[thorn nacelle]

Not Falling in your cheap ragebait i am sorry

[sand wigeon]

That’s why it’s harassment, because you’re persisting past the no

[thorn nacelle]

Bye 🙂

[sand wigeon]

This isn’t ragebait this is called consent

Lol

[thorn nacelle]

I am sorry didnt saw any No. Just forget about it. No more time left laters

[sand wigeon]

He says that but he’s absolutely going to respond to something I say next

Anyway, ARPG’s are frankly in a great place right now. PoE2 was a horrid letdown, and nearly a scam, but many other options — including D4 — are in good to great places. I can’t particularly recall a better time for ARPG’s, especially with the slow rise of ARPG adjacent games like Death Must Die.

[placid yarrow]

Guys please keep it civil

[thorn nacelle]

No idea whats going on here tbh

[sand wigeon]

No problem Cyborg, I apologize for any part of mine in that

[placid yarrow]

All good let's just leave it here. I haven't gone theough everything yet

[thorn nacelle]

Let him Spam his/her books at some point gonna get tired😂

[sand wigeon]

What

My book is 70K words long actually. Spamming that would get me banned smh

Actually I think it’s at 80K now

[fierce moth]

lol real panda! @gilded elm We have panda available in Wuchang

[twilit mountain]

How long is the current chapter

[sand wigeon]

6k rn? but it was 70k before this chapter and given i’m expanding the first section and haven’t finished the third it’ll probably be at around 10k like the other chapters

Okay it’ll be around 67K-68K

[mental talon]

Haven't had much time to play Expedition 33 because of real life, but have enjoyed what I've gotten to play so far

[placid yarrow]

NGL I couldn't get into it

[fierce moth]

Unrealistic dream: I wish my English can as good as Hallow

[placid yarrow]

It can be

[sand wigeon]

Same

[placid yarrow]

English is my third language and I pretty much learned it purely from being online and playing games

[sand wigeon]

Yeah, it just takes a lot of time. I have no formal education, nothing of the sort, I’ve simply got here through regular conversation in English and lots of reading

[placid yarrow]

Although i started when I was young and we do have an English education where I live. I don't think my English would be any worse without it

[fierce moth]

wow third?! That's so cool. You knows 3 languages...

[sand wigeon]

Lots of people! It’s very cool

I’d like to learn Russian, French, Japanese and French (Quebecois)

But I have nobody to regularly speak them with and I burnout fast

[placid yarrow]

Just keep typing and talking like you have been and your English will naturally improve. Honestly you've already improved quite a lot since I first started seeing you around here @fierce moth

[sand wigeon]

Yep! You’re doing amazing, Kirra

Keep in mind that I do write at very high professional levels

[twilit mountain]

I only speak English, I have attempted to learn Japanese and Spanish before. And ig I took Latin for a while, but that hardly counts. Japanese I couldn't afford to keep going to my lessons. Spanish I was just very frustrated with because my parents sat me down in front of a computer and turned on Rosetta Stone as if my father's first language isn't Spanish

[sand wigeon]

I don’t just know conversational English, so please don’t compare yourself to me

I’m not a good comparison

[sand wigeon]

Oh I guess I technically speak Latin and Greek?

But I could not ACTUALLY speak it anymore

[placid yarrow]

I took Spanish but our teacher was really bad so it never stuck lul

We actually went through several teachers, not private but in school

[fierce moth]

👀 I guess maybe both of you can form an unit to practice a language

[sand wigeon]

Absolutely not

[placid yarrow]

Lmao

[sand wigeon]

I could not teach someone English

[twilit mountain]

It's rough to do so without someone who already knows the language and can guide mistakes

[sand wigeon]

My understanding of English is entirely intuitive

[placid yarrow]

Yeah same

I don't really know what all the linguistic vocab is called for the different concepts and stuff

[fierce moth]

oh make sense... Native speakers is the key indeed

[sand wigeon]

Can I do it at a professional, high-grade level? Yes, but I don’t understand many of the actual terms used in English grammar, and I’m sure an actual professor or a non-native speaker with lots of studying would know it better than I do in such regard

[placid yarrow]

Well I'm not but it's still the case honestly

Because I didn't learn from formal education

I learned by just typing and talking with people

[sand wigeon]

Anyway read my book only $20000 on amazon thx

[placid yarrow]

Shesh

[fierce moth]

lol

😂 😂 😂 😂 ...

[placid yarrow]

Your English may be good but your business acumen might need work 😭

[sand wigeon]

fine. new deal, just for you. $20001

[twilit mountain]

Lmao

[placid yarrow]

Tempting....

[sand wigeon]

(It’s not finished)

(Only six chapters are finished)

[fierce moth]

I'm quite satisfied on this bedtime joke. Thank you

[sand wigeon]

(I have no idea how many there will be)

[thorn nacelle]

Btw Ave is still here?

[twilit mountain]

I am one of the beta readers (and sometimes a like, mini editor) 🫡

[placid yarrow]

She's no longer a community manager if that's what you mean

[sand wigeon]

Who killed Sola Sakata?!

[fierce moth]

beta readers lol

[twilit mountain]

Me

[sand wigeon]

[Insert Connor from Detroit Become Human slamming the desk]

Gifs are broken so

[thorn nacelle]

Oh wow, yes that i mean sry my England doesnt help further. Its been long since then?

[sand wigeon]

It’s an actual term! It typically means someone who reads the product before it releases but is not in an editor role

So they read it, give their thoughts etc

Helps the author decide if they want to change anything

[sand wigeon]

Is the reasoning public?

[fierce moth]

I know beta testers only so it sounds fresh

[twilit mountain]

Yeah, I just do a little bit of corrective work on typos and occasional sentence structure when needed

[placid yarrow]

I don't really know the details myself

[thorn nacelle]

Cause i think saw messages of her couple days ago maybe was 1 week ago. Rip

[sand wigeon]

Understood

[twilit mountain]

Yeah, she was a third-party contract basically, that contract ran out. Olam left at the same time as he's her manager.

[sand wigeon]

I also rant about background lore and worldbuilding so I can have someone else’s thoughts

[fierce moth]

it's why "Kirra is missing old friends"

[sand wigeon]

Like the Gwerin Diredd, a presumed-to-be Welsh mercenary organization that is several thousand years old!

[thorn nacelle]

Best mod ever saw since 2017 on any discord server i have been

[sand wigeon]

NGL Ave was a pretty terrible mod

[thorn nacelle]

Says who

😂

[sand wigeon]

Like, I enjoyed her presence but she was way too soft with people doing explicitly wrong things

It took months for Sam’joko to get banned, for example, even though Ave was around for many of their outbursts

She’d often just say “everyone get along” and not actually do anything

[sand wigeon]

Well, me and my opinion, that’s why I’m stating it. ‘Cause it’s my opinion.

[thorn nacelle]

Anyway it is what it is. You will make New friends Kirra 🙂

[sand wigeon]

God smites me whenever I try to make friends. Apparently homunculi aren’t meant to know the sin of happiness :c

[twilit mountain]

Well yeah, you're not supposed to imbue souls in the homunculi, it's a crime against nature.

[sand wigeon]

Insert that one Tumblr post about keeping a homunculi under your bed

[thorn nacelle]

Cause she was a Mature person and not 14years old kiddo. Once u grow up a bit u will understand further why and why not. Fast decisions its usually not right. She muted me too but i Was wrong to get triggered here. On General mods getting cocky only from the Pixel color they get. Trust me i know good how Power effects low IQ brains. Army rules

[sand wigeon]

Alrighty then.

I’m a legal adult, by the way. But sure.

[thorn nacelle]

One day somebody near 67 years old told me

You gonna learn till u die

[sand wigeon]

That is how brains work, yes.

[thorn nacelle]

I am still young and learning

[sand wigeon]

Obviously.

Just saying, age is no indicator of wisdom or intelligence. I live in a place with a majority aged population, and still some of the most intelligent, socially capable and considerate people I’ve met have been literal children.

Children aren’t stupid. They’re a product of their environment, since they haven’t had time to be independent and change on their own yet. If raised by intelligent, socially capable and considerate people, they’ll often be the same.

Many of the most hysterically rude or foolish people I’ve met have been aged adults. It becomes hard for people to change overtime, especially as they age, both thanks to biological functions and simply being, quite literally, stuck in their ways.

People who use age as an indicator of intelligence or wisdom are often-most those who were raised to be unquestioning. And in my opinion, that’s not a good thing.

[gilded elm]

I missed a lot, but PoE 2 early access is hands down a better game than classic D2 or D2R. I have gripes with PoE 2, but when factoring in the modernized game design, it's not even a contest IMO. PoE 2 wipes the floor with D2.

And I grew up playing D2, endlessly spamming Baal runs to rush to level 99 every day all day lol

[sand wigeon]

PoE2’s primary issues are its lack of build diversity, lack of content and poor endgame and skill design.

Its visuals, game-feel and voice acting are all good.

It’s writing is garbage, though.

[gilded elm]

Yeah PoE2 is just missing content/systems that PoE1 players are accustomed to.

And that comes with time, as leagues are released.

[sand wigeon]

Hopefully.

I do think that PoE2 was, at least in part, an accidental scam.

[gilded elm]

PoE2 launched with more content than PoE1 did at a similar point of its lifecycle, IIRC.

Like, way more

[sand wigeon]

They were very unclear with the messaging and the way it was talked about before they released paid pre-access keys is very scummy.

[gilded elm]

I'm not too upset, sharing the MTX across both games bought them a lot of good will on my part.

But yeah I get that perspective too.

I tend to look at how the scales balance, overall GGG balances into the "good" side of the scale.

[placid yarrow]

I don't mind Poe 2, it just needs time in the oven

[gilded elm]

Yeah, foundationally I think it's amazing. Like the potential for what it could become by building upon what they already have.

[sand wigeon]

Sadly, the story is forever ruined.

[gilded elm]

Haha, I like the PoE1 lore, but I'm glad I'm not a lore buff because yeah I don't want to be put off by whatever poor decisions they did to the lore in PoE2.

[sand wigeon]

It’s so bad. It’s already so bad.

It’s only going to get worse.

[gilded elm]

Maybe they'll retcon... copium lol

Brilliant! (from r/MechanicalKeyboard)

[junior stirrup]

Looks like something foone would cook up.

[sand wigeon]

I would kill someone.

[placid yarrow]

Idk anything about Poe lore tbh

[sand wigeon]

That thing would

Give me trauma

Trying to use

[junior stirrup]

Would you also twist your fingers to align with the lettering or would you use the keys straight-on?

[gilded elm]

I'd go insane if I couldn't feel the bump on the home keys (F and J) in a normal typing position lol

[sand wigeon]

Well, I was never taught how to type properly so I don’t rest my hands on the keyboard anyway

I only use my index fingers

[junior stirrup]

Oddly enough, the thing that bothers me the most is how the lettering on the keys have the shift state written left-right of the key rather than below-above.

[gilded elm]

I'm an all 10 fingers typer myself, but also been typing for over 2 decades. Been using a labelless keyboard for over 10 years.

[sand wigeon]

It’s just the unfortunate reality of not having typing classes anymore

[junior stirrup]

I've spent years learning a different logical layout on keyboards with the wrong physical layout printed.
I like having the reminder still of what's where now that I've got ones with the proper layout on them.

[sand wigeon]

After like 15 years using computers the way I am, it’s pretty much impossible for me to swap

[junior stirrup]

Grew up with Swedish for like 20 years, switched to US in university.

[sand wigeon]

That tracks

[gilded elm]

It's still QWERTY right? Or just the labels that threw you off

[junior stirrup]

All QWERTY, but most symbols are in different places and shift/altgr states and åäö doesn't exist anymore.

A big change was from ISO to ANSI Enter key, constantly hitting the wrong thing.

åäö I've got on AltGr+wqp now thanks to the US Alternate International I rock so I can actually type my native tongue.

[gilded elm]

Ah, this might be the same or similar key used in Korean keyboards (not sure if they still do) for switching between English and Korean.

Yeah, Alt on the right of the spacebar

[placid yarrow]

Idk if I can type on a none Swedish keyboard tbh, I do it on my phone but I've never typed on a none Swedish physical keyboard ever I don't think lol

[gilded elm]

Just a matter of practice! I don't even speak to anyone in Korean anymore, haven't done so in over a decade probably. But I still remember how to type in Korean! 안녕 사이보그 ^^

[placid yarrow]

I think I'd get tripped up on stuff like ' since it's right next to åäö

[sand wigeon]

The French mobile keyboard throws me off constantly

[placid yarrow]

I can't type English on the Swedish mobile keyboard lol

The letters shift just enough to throw me off

[sand wigeon]

The only difference is an additional apostrophe on the home keyboard

But it changes the spacing of the letter and my rate of typos goes up drastically

[gilded elm]

Yeah mobile keyboards are a whole other skill, but I seen people go crazy on 'em

[gilded elm]

I suck though

[sand wigeon]

Use swipe typing

Its become really accurate overtime and it’s very fast

[placid yarrow]

I don't really use it but swipe typing is kinda goated nowadays

[sand wigeon]

Especially if you’re using one hand, like I often do

Since I’m eating or whatever

[gilded elm]

Can we just fast forward to the neural implant and let me type with my mind please, thank you

[sand wigeon]

You can tell the keyboard to favor one side of the screen for one handed typing, but it’s still not too helpful

[sand wigeon]

Please world give me cool cybernetics without the implications of cyberdystopia

[junior stirrup]

Got a new phone recently, the keyboard on it is a strict downgrade in that it doesn't do swipe (at least not out of the box) and the autocomplete is way more aggressive in editing past text.

You should see the Swedish macOS layout by the way, that one is a blast.

We had a lab in uni with the then-new iMacs just as macOS X was launched. Completely new experience and the designers sure designed.

[placid yarrow]

You can download new keyboards if it's android

[junior stirrup]

Where do you put /, | and \ on a keyboard?

Somewhere easy to access as you use them a lot? Naaaaah.

[gilded elm]

Oh yeah I loved Mac OS X, before the days of macOS. It was such a fresh thing.

[junior stirrup]

They all go on the 7 key, because they look similar!

[placid yarrow]

Lol

[junior stirrup]

Of course, as it's a sleek mac keyboard, there's no printed legend for any shift state either.

[gilded elm]

Nowadays I feel like I'm always in an uphill battle with Apple to make macOS work the way I want it to

It's like they're deliberately removing or hiding stuff, making my life harder

Constantly redesigning stuff

[junior stirrup]

I ran some Hackintoshes at home for a while, was kind of fun to explore the horrors of a new OS.

Ended up getting a M1 Mini when Apple Silicon appeared so that I could test my PoE data mining tools and the PoB engine.

Still can't use it as my primary system, drives me insane 😄

[gilded elm]

Same! Hackintoshes were fun to mess around with. It was such a nightmare, back then I think I had some crappy Pentium 3, had to worry about having hardware that had SSE3 or whatever. So many problems getting it to work. Once it did work though, I felt so accomplished lmao

[junior stirrup]

It's definitely a journey.

[gilded elm]

Might've been a Celeron, but yeah it was a looong time ago, back when Hackintoshes first emerged

Apple was still pumping out PowerPCs, Intel Macs were a very new thing

[junior stirrup]

This was my "setup" in the airbnb when I first moved to NZ, I can tell you that PoE1 didn't run well on it 😄

[gilded elm]

You know... I didn't realize PoE has a macOS build lmao

[junior stirrup]

Upside of the M1 Mini is that you can easily bring it in a suitcase 😄

[gilded elm]

I was wondering to myself, why is zao using a Mac lmao

I love the M1 Mini, got one as well

[junior stirrup]

I brought parts of my actual computer disassembled, including the harddrives from the NAS, but otherwise it was a cheap laptop, a micro HP PC or the mac.

[gilded elm]

M1 Mini is kind of a beast for productivity stuff, but yeah not so much gaming I imagine

[junior stirrup]

The macOS build of PoE is... a thing. Most players use a Wine-like as the PC client has generally better performance than the Standalone or Steam macOS builds.

[gilded elm]

Does Valve/Steam not have some kind of Proton build or equivalent for macOS? Surprised if not.

I guess on Steam, Mac builds for games tend to be (or always are) native builds.

[junior stirrup]

PoE2 doesn't even have any native builds yet, with just this in the EA FAQ:

Unfortunately Path of Exile 2 will not be available on MacOS at the start of Early Access, but we’re keen to add support for this platform as soon as possible.

Yeah, as far as I know there's no initiative from Valve to do that kind of work on macOS.

A lot of the Linux stuff is probably helped by being in way more control and seeing more of the innards of things.

[gilded elm]

Ah, damn. I know there's basically no point these days in making Linux-native builds for games because Proton often ends up running games better than on Windows natively, due to translation layer being more optimized and without the bloat of Windows. But I guess there's nothing for macOS yet.

[junior stirrup]

Crossover and thus Kegworks do a good job but still requires some tinkering.

[gilded elm]

Wow, Crossover still a thing for macOS? I remember that from ages ago lmao

[junior stirrup]

Lots of API mapping tho, as everything has to run on Metal in the end.

Yeah, still alive and kicking.

[gilded elm]

Different architecture probably adds to the challenge as well... with Apple Silicon/Arm

[junior stirrup]

Rosetta handles most of it, but it definitely doesn't help.

Especially where there might be some quirky gaps still.

[gilded elm]

Is Rosetta good these days? Not much overhead?

I guess it would have to be, I assume there's tons of Intel Mac apps that haven't been ported

[junior stirrup]

No idea about absolute figures, but it's way faster than not running at all 😄

The real PoB on macOS is a sight to behold.

Windows x64 binary running translated to macOS ARM, with OpenGL ES 3.0 translated via ANGLE to D3D11, translated via D3DMetal or DXVK (via MoltenVK) to Metal.

It's a wonder that it renders anything at all, especially as my shaders are cursed.

[gilded elm]

There's gotta be some significant sacrifices made in performance or quality, I assume. I'm no graphics programmer, but I always assumed that OpenGL was simply an inferior API, so translating it perhaps doesn't always produce the best results, I would guess.

[thorn nacelle]

Poe 2 release was huge but thats it. D2r is still superior cause may it looks simple but has way more thinks to Explore than a Casino simulator

Its sad to see that 15years into arpgs where not enough to build a crafting System or trade System in 2025 instead using 2000s trade System and force players to be online just to be able to trade.

[gilded elm]

Respectfully disagree. PoE2 is more than D2 in every possible way. In fact, if D2 released as a brand new game in 2025, I imagine it would have been called the worst ARPG ever made.

By 2025's standards of what makes a good ARPG.

[thorn nacelle]

D2 is the grandfather of any rpg outthere today

[gilded elm]

D2 was only good when it released, and a few years after, basically.

[thorn nacelle]

You compare oranges with apples

[gilded elm]

I'm just a realist lol

[thorn nacelle]

Its normal poe 2 to be better since copy paste my mom

[junior stirrup]

I've been playing around at revising the PoB renderer to be on top of WebGPU or something, but that'd be quite far out as things like the passive tree have weird requirements.

[gilded elm]

I refuse to look at D2 with rose tinted glasses of the early 2000s, because we don't live in the early 2000's anymore. We live in 2025.

[thorn nacelle]

On General talking poe 2 its not what i expected as experienced rpg player in 2024

By far dogshit

[gilded elm]

Does it really need GPU? lol

[thorn nacelle]

Semi finished Grab Cash games

Its gets boring slowly

[gilded elm]

I mean, I'm not a fan of Electron in general, but I feel PoB could benefit a lot from that kind of design lol

[junior stirrup]

The UI is fairly hefty and very homebrewn.

[thorn nacelle]

Who cares about poe 1 the moment u step up and say hey i wanna release New game?

[gilded elm]

Yeah I could tell, PoB's UI is very unique

[junior stirrup]

Not much you can do about the passive tree in ways of caching as you tend to zoom and move around quite a bit on it and that should be smooth.

[thorn nacelle]

Why Controller Ui is superior vs PC UI the moment u release a pc game?

From 700k playerbase end up at 4k

Says a lot sir

[gilded elm]

Don't think it can be done smoothly on web tech?

[thorn nacelle]

I understand u try to defend them but ya

Even last epoch which is indie company fixed their servers faster

[junior stirrup]

One of the things I'd like to explore would be to port the existing UI to something like Skia.

[thorn nacelle]

They got ultra paid at release

Imagine playing the game and almost 5/10 had 500 Euro top up

They just got paid and See ya next fresh now

[junior stirrup]

While you can probably make a PoB-like on web tech, the established interactions that people have grown used to might not be feasible, and web tech is a platform I give exactly zero hoots about.

[gilded elm]

Oh Skia is cool. I assume you can just export a PoB build for the web using Skia, I wonder how optimized that is

[thorn nacelle]

Average poe 1 gamer has min 5k Euro in cosmetics

D2r had no cosmetics

Had core game instead

Imagine that

[junior stirrup]

I got quite far on implementing my own Unicode text rendering on top of foundational libraries, would be nice if I could rely on a battle-hardened implementation for that.

[thorn nacelle]

Fck i hate this Generation with Dlcs and cosmetics

Wtb old school game releases

[gilded elm]

Web tech has advanced enough to where I think PoB could exist in its entirely (fully featured) on the web (without GPU), but yeah it's a lot of work for a not so big gain.

[junior stirrup]

Similarly, with vector rendering we could do better icons and maybe even revise the passive tree a bit.

[thorn nacelle]

My last hope is the next arpg release from that chad d2 dev

Nothing else

[junior stirrup]

There's some initiatives for reworks, both as a 1:1 port to Go and also a rethink into a spreadsheet engine-powered Python one.

In the meantime, I'll try to make the existing runtime less bad 😄

You also have pob.cool, which kind of works as a PoC for the web.

[gilded elm]

Getting the core logic into a library or framework is a good start for sure

[thorn nacelle]

Poe 2 is just on Beta and heavy paid

Maybe in 2030 its gonna get released

[junior stirrup]

Lua(JIT) is a huge anchor and also the reason why the project is so flexible to changes.

And heaven knows that the PoEs have surprise changes 😄

[thorn nacelle]

Still wont get that high number playerbase ever

They failed badly

[gilded elm]

Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous to try and write a tool like PoB in a lower level language, Lua sounds perfectly fine (JS would be fine too IMO) and allows for rapidly prototyping and pushing out updates.

[thorn nacelle]

When u Cook a sauce

[gilded elm]

You simply don't need that level of microoptimization

[thorn nacelle]

U gotta bind it at its boiling not when its cold

[junior stirrup]

It's amazing how fast the team can onboard new contributors from nothing.

[thorn nacelle]

Mate the guy has the balls to go on Internet and say Look we dont have enough people to run poe 2

[gilded elm]

Dwarf Fortress also introduced a Lua API recently, maybe a good excuse for me to learn Lua now

But yeah Lua looks dead simple, no wonder

[thorn nacelle]

And after that He expects his game to be alive

[junior stirrup]

I've been keen on Luau for a while, the language fork from the Roblox people.

Can't port something as intrincate as PoB to it, but more for my own stuff.

PoB is kind of up against a performance wall in some places, where you've got to be restrictive in how wide you evaluate things and have to rely on a lot of cached state.

[gilded elm]

Luau is a fast, small, safe, gradually typed ...okay sold. You had me at typed. lmao

Typed ftw

[thorn nacelle]

Nobody said anythink about intelligence neither windows. Experience tho does matter

[junior stirrup]

Had a regression a while ago where it suddenly took twice as long to open the skill gem dropdown, triggered by miniscule changes to LuaJIT itself.

[thorn nacelle]

Anyway on General now about games its really ultra rare to find Good games nowdays

Guess there is a reason for that... assume its called money

[gilded elm]

Does LuaJIT cache bytecode to disk?

Or does PoB ship with bytecode?

[placid yarrow]

I think depending on the genres of games you like there's plenty of great games coming out every year

[junior stirrup]

While you can dump bytecode and assumedly do things with it, we don't bother.

[thorn nacelle]

Yes many games coming out but not many are good

Its similar how its in music

[sand wigeon]

I did

[thorn nacelle]

Its unfinished rushed job

Kcd2 for example was good

[junior stirrup]

It's more of a "skip the parsing step" thing, it doesn't get you better perf or ahead-of-time optimisations.

[thorn nacelle]

Nice crafting System miles ahead

Now games like New assasin creed.. oh boy

[junior stirrup]

The actual precompilation of Luau is alluring for that reason, but the dynamic structure of the PoB data makes it hard to do.

[gilded elm]

Really? Caching the byte code seems like a simple, harmless win since the runtime wouldn't have to constantly compile to bytecode. But I guess the time it takes to do this (presuming it does it all on application start) is trivial.

[sand wigeon]

This year has been one of the best years in gaming for GOTY competitors

[junior stirrup]

I don't think the initial load has had any meaningful impact on my profiles.

[placid yarrow]

I just want stoneshard updates to come out fr

[thorn nacelle]

Its normal tbh that quality declines the moment so many games getting released

[junior stirrup]

But I've also not looked deeper into it, the pain is more around computations computing.

[placid yarrow]

So I can sink another 100+ hours in

[gilded elm]

Yeah I mean PoB runs fine for me, so the fact that it does this without any bytecode caching is kinda impressive and a testament to LuaJIT.

[sand wigeon]

It hasn't declined tho

[thorn nacelle]

Back then wasnt so many companies releasing games

[junior stirrup]

The performance cliffs tend to be when things like the JIT traces have to abort due to foreign calls or constructs it can't JIT.

[thorn nacelle]

I am Chef in real life i know how quality works. You cant have high quality when u produce food for 4000 people

[sand wigeon]

Expedition 33, Silksong, Donkey Kong Bonanza, Death Stranding 2 are releasing or have already released this year

[thorn nacelle]

Thats how life works

[sand wigeon]

And these are all fnatastic games

Well, presumably Silksong is

[junior stirrup]

Any decade now.

[placid yarrow]

Silksong 💀

[thorn nacelle]

Expedition 33 ye rofl

[gilded elm]

Foreign calls, like FFI?

[sand wigeon]

It's coming out for real this time

[gilded elm]

Or like remote stuff, like web APIs

[thorn nacelle]

Red dead 2 Was solid game. Elder ring sekiro yes

[sand wigeon]

Oh, Nightreign, too.

[placid yarrow]

Witch brook is looking kinda lit imo, but it's chucklefish so I'm keeping my wary hat on

[thorn nacelle]

Now copy paste of Baldurs gate ye its also good

[sand wigeon]

And that's not even starting on all the fantastic indie games.

[placid yarrow]

What's a copy paste of baldurs gate?

[sand wigeon]

Yeah, what is?

[placid yarrow]

Expedition 33? They're nowhere close to being similar

[sand wigeon]

They're, like, loosely the same genre and that's it

[junior stirrup]

PoB is built up with a C++ engine that exposes an API surface to LuaJIT via C bindings in a module.
The engine invokes a function per frame to simulate and display the whole UI, and that in turn calls back into the runtime to find files, draw text, draw art, etc.

[sand wigeon]

Blue Prince is also a GOTY competitor

[thorn nacelle]

Never played it just saying. Typing from phone cant answer fast my fingers are too fat

[placid yarrow]

Blue prince was fun yeah

[sand wigeon]

KCD:2

The new Tsushima game

[thorn nacelle]

Only the graphics of Expedition was enoufh for me

[sand wigeon]

Like, there's so many amazing games releasing or already released this year

[placid yarrow]

Well I'll let you know you're basically comparing a fork to an orange

And saying they're copies

[junior stirrup]

There's many thousands of draw commands in a frame for megabytes of command data:

[thorn nacelle]

Yes its ok i miss that but on general talking sir. Elements if i play that game will let u know how many times they copy Elements from other games

[gilded elm]

Ah, very cool. Man I should go read the code, sounds really cool. So there's bare minimum C++ to get the nitty gritty stuff done, and the Lua scripts call into exposed bindings.

[thorn nacelle]

Everybody copy each other

[sand wigeon]

"Copy elements" it's a classic RPG

They're all built off the same systems

That's what defines the genre

That's HOW genres work lol

[thorn nacelle]

I am d2 player

[sand wigeon]

So D3, PoE, Grim Dawn, anything else copied D2!

[thorn nacelle]

And i just stay back and watch

[placid yarrow]

If you use salt are you copying the first person to use salt? What you're saying doesn't really make sense tbh. Like yeah it's kinda true but meaningless

[junior stirrup]

That is how the third party Linux and macOS repacks of PoB work by the way, there's a pobfrontend reimplementation of the same API surface on top of Qt that kind of works well enough for them to run the same Lua code.

[thorn nacelle]

Salt? Thats nowdays modern gaming industry

[sand wigeon]

The Alters is really good, that's 2025.

[placid yarrow]

I meant in cooking

[sand wigeon]

You are impossible to talk to

[gilded elm]

Oh, of course. That makes total sense. Abstracting the surface API so you can implement it in the necessary platform.

[placid yarrow]

Like if you cook with salt are you just copying someone else? Even if the recipe is pretty much completely original

[junior stirrup]

Wasn't really the intent, but life finds a way 😄

[gilded elm]

Abstraction is usually always good practice :)

because of precisely these opportunities

[junior stirrup]

It also means that whenever first party PoB changes things around, it breaks those platforms 😄

[thorn nacelle]

Yes for example i respect LE Dev Crew cause atleast made something unique outside from other any other game example.

[placid yarrow]

Yeah I enjoyed it, wouldn't say it's Goty material though tbh

[sand wigeon]

Agreed, I'm just talking about good games

[gilded elm]

True! But certainly better than the alternative :D

[sand wigeon]

Since they said "no games are good nowadays"

It's like. We're kinda in a golden age for non-AAA games

[placid yarrow]

Oddsparks was good, fun automation game

[junior stirrup]

I had some proof-of-concept ports of the first party engine to both Linux and macOS thanks to the ANGLE layer.

[sand wigeon]

Oddsparks, yeah

[junior stirrup]

Just can't ship those as actually shipping on a platform and supporting it down the line is way more work than just the initial technical challenge.

[placid yarrow]

Spellrogue is another good one

[gilded elm]

Would you be able to point me to where the C++ stuff is in the repo? I'm really interested to read some of it

[placid yarrow]

Dice roguelite

[thorn nacelle]

Gotta log on pc in order to chat here lol u guys type like Uzi

[junior stirrup]

https://github.com/PathOfBuildingCommunity/PathOfBuilding-SimpleGraphic

[gilded elm]

Ah it's a separate repo, thank you

[junior stirrup]

ui_api.cpp has the bindings

It's all essentially a 2D sprite game engine grown beyond belief.

[gilded elm]

So it's actually a whole graphics library with Lua bindings

Made specifically for PoB

[placid yarrow]

I think I'm gonna get the wandering village, looks interesting

[junior stirrup]

I don't really know the true origins of the codebase, I got in way later.

[sand wigeon]

Deltarune won't be fully released in 2025, but the newest chapters are also really good. Everdeep Aurora. The Roottrees are Dead. Dinkum. Urban Myth Dissolution Center. Mind Over Magic.

[thorn nacelle]

The only sure is that any rpg outthere has copy elements from d2 and d2 copied other games before. Thats totally normal no Salt or pepper

[sand wigeon]

These are all great games that have released in 2025. Games are only bad if you stop looking.

I could keep listing.

[thorn nacelle]

Thats how artists do stuff and those who has skill and ages ahead of their time usually are well popular after years

[sand wigeon]

Especially since that's only within 2025.

[sand wigeon]

No. They're not.

It's a fact of artistry that the majority of artists go completely unrecognized, no matter their talent.

That's art.

[placid yarrow]

Mind over magic is good yeah, haven't played the others

[thorn nacelle]

Dream hallow pls talk with somebody at your lvl

[gilded elm]

SimpleGraphic repo itself doesn't include the other platforms right?

[sand wigeon]

And now he's insulting me

[placid yarrow]

No insults please

[thorn nacelle]

Lvl isnt insult

[sand wigeon]

Oh my god

[placid yarrow]

I'm telling you it is

[junior stirrup]

The third party pobfrontend has a bunch of forks like https://github.com/ernstp/pobfrontend

[sand wigeon]

Have a nice day Cyborg lol

[thorn nacelle]

Ok then

[sand wigeon]

I'ma go play inscryption PVP with a friend

[placid yarrow]

You too

[thorn nacelle]

Cant type that fast anyway

I am not keyboard warrior

[junior stirrup]

SG itself probably builds with some effort unless I've broken it recently, but things like the launcher and everything else around the deployment is all on local drives here.

Possibly even on the decommissioned Hackintoshes 😄

[gilded elm]

lol

[gilded elm]

So let me get this straight... pobfrontend is a drop-in replacement for SG?

Or does it link with SG at all?

[junior stirrup]

Normal PoB has a separate launcher EXE that finds the main Lua file and loads up the SimpleGraphic DLL, handing off control to it to start the engine and drive the Lua.

pobfrontend is an all-in-one executable that emulates the same API that SG exposes, but uses nothing of it.

They just stubbed enough of the API up in https://github.com/ernstp/pobfrontend/blob/qt6/src/lua_cb_gfx.cpp and wired it up to Qt instead, possibly using OpenGL.

It's a bit jank and looks wrong in some places, but it mostly gets the job done.

They also hack out things like the update checker and some other logic in the Lua scripts.

Like f.ex. in https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/path-of-building-community-git

[gilded elm]

So PoB for Linux and macOS are forks which load up pobfrontend instead of SimpleGraphic?

[junior stirrup]

Yeah, same-ish Lua code and art, repackaged with a completely different runtime.

[gilded elm]

The lengths the PoE community will go to, not just any community, but Linux and macOS gamers... this is commendable work for a hobby project.

Meanwhile, other ARPGs don't have a tool that even comes close to PoB.

[junior stirrup]

There was someone that tried shoehorning LE into PoB's framework. Not sure how well that turned out.

[placid yarrow]

Yeah they just updated it today I think

It's at 0.7 now

[junior stirrup]

@gilded elm Eep, look at the time. I need to get ready for work.

Good chat.

[placid yarrow]

I checked it out around a month ago and the general framework was there but a lot of conditional stuff wasn't applying yet

[twilit mountain]

I saw that post earlier, haven't looked into it at all though

[gilded elm]

Yeah thanks for sharing and putting up with my questions! Really enjoyed it

[placid yarrow]

It's promising tbh

But it's still not a replacement for spreadsheets and stuff

Hopefully it will be soon enough lul

[gilded elm]

Dammitt is great, amazing, talented developer. But PoB is just kind of on another level. It's a crowd sourced effort as far as I know, there's a lot of talented contributors. I see tons of Pull Requests for PoB too.

[acoustic jungle]

Given how good the interface of LETools is, I'm actually fine with waiving my anti-monopolistic views on matters, and am happy Dammit is given the privilege 😄

[placid yarrow]

I mean tbh if dammit had complete DPS calcs for all skills that'd be about as good as It gets imo

[gilded elm]

Yeah not sure how much of it is limited by what you can actually mine from the LE client.

[placid yarrow]

Like yeah PoB can support tons of configs to really make sure everything is accurate but for 99% of what people need a lot of them don't really matter, you're just trying to see what does most damage and don't really need to know exactly how much damage that is

[gilded elm]

Dammitt also does GrimTools too, and as far as I know he does all of this by himself right? So that's also a factor.

[thorn nacelle]

Grim dawn have to play again i guess its been long time since then

Gives those d2 vibes

[acoustic jungle]

This is the one thing I hated (but will be changing soon) about Blizzard's stuff. While the devs keep some of the very core things up-to-date, A LOT of how things are tied together inside the client are hidden, relying on community tools (which are incomplete, or lacking, or not as good, etc.) or guesswork to get things right. All the same they have private channels to communicate those structures to popular websites/tools.

Sadly, EHG has taken this route as well, but I'm sure it wasn't because of bad intentions. What ends up happening, tho, is you don't get people building things because either they're closed, or it's just too annoying. Gotta give props to Riot for making everything open and documented.

[placid yarrow]

Yeah he's also making tools for no rest for the wicked

[gilded elm]

What a gigachad lol

[gilded elm]

This has only gotten harder with D4, I think. I haven't checked the BlizzHackers discord recently, but yeah I remember that being talked about.

If I were making an ARPG, I would honestly just provide static dumps for third party apps to use.

Which contain all of the necessary data/formulas

[acoustic jungle]

This is the way. And it's so easy to do, especially that those tools nearly always exist internally anyways.

[placid yarrow]

Eh honestly I'd tend to disagree. EHG actually often help people making tools for the game and they want to be more transparent regarding things like DPS and defensive stats in game. There are things like droprates that they intentionally don't show in game though for sure

[gilded elm]

Oh no, my message got blocked because it contained a 3 letter acronym (the dev's name) which I assume is blocked.

[acoustic jungle]

I was talking specifically about the API being closed, and then not having concrete, direct channels for getting help. Nor should it be that way, where you're waiting on the developers (who are busy), to give you answers and so on. I said it ~1 year ago, but the fact that the API is closed, is gonna lead to everyone flocking to letools/maxroll, which...ok, if you want to concentrate ALL the "power" into those entities' hands, fine. But it'll lead to stagnation.

[gilded elm]

Let's try again: I'm a big EVE Online player (back in the day) and it's something the dev has done since basically the beginning. That's how the community is able to maintain some cool third-party tools/apps.

This dev's name is apparently blocked in the Discord, understandably, not upset about it lol

Not because of teh dev, because it's the same name as something else.

[twilit mountain]

Well now I gotta know, brb lol

[acoustic jungle]

Oh, I see why it's blocked 😄

And yea, it's how it should be, because the community will build amazing tools, and compete with each other, and release even more better/features. Otherwise, what always ends up happening, is so, so, so many cool things don't get built because it's all closed-off.

[placid yarrow]

The api has no information regarding items or stats, it's just for ladder and character info. but I get what you're saying.

[twilit mountain]

HAHAHA I SEE

That's funny

[placid yarrow]

Wrong text box? Lol

[gilded elm]

Stands for Crowd Control Productions but nobody ever calls it that.

[placid yarrow]

Or am I tripping

[gilded elm]

Acronym for Crowd Control Productions is blocked here, that's what we were talking about lol

[twilit mountain]

^^^^

[placid yarrow]

Yeah makes sense for that to be blocked since it's politics

[twilit mountain]

I went to google it and came back laughing

[twilit mountain]

Communism!

:o

[sand wigeon]

I hate socialists

[placid yarrow]

Ah that's what you were laughing about lol

[gilded elm]

Yeah, most times it's used it's politics, I agree. I just happened to trip it the one time it wasn't lmao

[placid yarrow]

I was confused since I wasn't reading the whole Convo

[twilit mountain]

Cyborg we must build communism! My liege demands it!

[acoustic jungle]

I WANT TO POST IT SO BADLY

[sand wigeon]

Is your liege Harrier Du Bois?

[acoustic jungle]

NEXT ACCOUNT ANGLE

[twilit mountain]

Perhaps

[gilded elm]

CCPGames ... does this work? I'm acting in good faith here, please don't ban.

It's an actual dev

From Iceland

[acoustic jungle]

Redirect his ban to me.

👋

[gilded elm]

[thorn nacelle]

His an actual dev from Iceland!

[gilded elm]

Maybe I'll eat a ban regardless because Cyborg is Swedish I think and I don't know if there's some beef with Iceland, I don't know about Scandinavian politics lol

[placid yarrow]

Nah we're chill

[gilded elm]

whew lol

[placid yarrow]

And even if there was I'm not that petty lmao

[thorn nacelle]

I like scandivian cause they like me too xD

[desert jasper]

just don't say finland is scandinavian

[thorn nacelle]

Finladia

[gilded elm]

Isn't it?

[thorn nacelle]

Best Vodca

If u are broke

[desert jasper]

it's not

[thorn nacelle]

Jokes aside was decent

[placid yarrow]

Finland is not Scandinavian no

[gilded elm]

Oh, so it isn't. Even Iceland isn't part of Scandinavia. Man I suck at geography.

They are Nordic... I guess that was my mistake lol

Just assuming all Nordic countries are part of Scandinavia

[placid yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/same-gif-8650053

[thorn nacelle]

Finland is not scandinavian but has similar Story to Greece so its gg

[twilit mountain]

It's uh... Sweden, Norway, and Denmark right?

[desert jasper]

I'd rather not be referred to as similar as greece

[placid yarrow]

Yep

[acoustic jungle]

Everyone I know considers Iceland "Scandinavian in spirit". All Nordic countries are Scandinavia, and all Scandinavian countries are Nordic.

"Several people are typing..."

[gilded elm]

[placid yarrow]

It's understandable to me that people put all of them together and call them Scandinavian

It's like putting all the us states together and calling them NA

[twilit mountain]

Slightly above average geography skills from middle school comin in clutch

[gilded elm]

Scandinavians always seemed more chill to me than Canadians, but maybe I got the wrong impression lol

I really wanna visit Norway

[desert jasper]

Norway is gorgeous

[placid yarrow]

Norway is nice

[desert jasper]

anyway
i'll go back to sleep
gn nerds

[gilded elm]

gn

[placid yarrow]

Gn

[twilit mountain]

Night Nub!

[acoustic jungle]

'Course Norway's nice, every citizen got like $10 trillion each.

It would be shocking if it wasn't nice.

$15 trillion*

Norway got into the S+++ tier without any work 😭

[gilded elm]

Ragnarok and Norsemen (TV shows) have opened me eyes to the awesomeness of Norway. I know, it's a silly entry point, but don't think I would've developed an interest otherwise.

[placid yarrow]

Just know Sweden is the OG

[tawny sand]

i like playing norse in crusader kings, that's as much as i know about it

[placid yarrow]

I played Sweden in hearts of iron, stayed neutral as Sweden usually does but secretly developed nukes and then blew everyone up lmao

[twilit mountain]

Is that y'alls plan?

[gilded elm]

I knew it.

Always watch out for the people who seem nicest.

[tawny sand]

true.

biding their time

[placid yarrow]

Patience is a virtue

[thorn nacelle]

Its ok those who know about history can understand

That always had to face enemies where used to be 2-3 bigger than them selfs. Thats the similar part only. Anythink Else about market and democrasy not.

[blissful token]

Omg typo in my email

"conduction the inspection"

[fierce moth]

@mortal musk ?

Wuchang is released, I checked out relevant news, three serious problems are popped up:

1. The price, Chinese regions are expensive than another low-price regions
2. The version, players who purchased normal version can enjoy deluxe version, but deluxe customers can get normal version only
3. The performance, fps drops a lot on low and medium PCs

24%, most negative from player reviews

The top stramer, Shroud is playing it now

[gilded elm]

Yeah, but almost all of the negative reviews are related to the performance/optimization. I wanna see where the reviews settle after the first couple of patches.

[fierce moth]

Well, net booster can't help me even.

[blissful token]

Ouch...

[fierce moth]

I installed 82GB loneliness.

What game else can I play in MMORPG/loot-based ARPG... I dislike outdated graphics/pixel art style, I can't play games without servers in China, I can't afford expensive prices like 3a games, I'm not interested in games with roguelite/roguelike elements... But I want to try something new

[fierce moth]

Tainted grail? Ok Let's try the demo

[fierce moth]

Oh remind of that. The game which I gave up playing because no idea how to find my weapon...

[junior stirrup]

While there may be brotherly play fights between the various nordic countries, outwards we're largely united 😄

Very late to the party it seems, scrollbars gotta scroll.

[fierce moth]

Meet something interesting...

There's a Chinese game company calls 4399. It's a game company original to flash games (2000-2012).
They hire a CM but.
One of question I need to answer is... "How much money have you spent on your favourite game? "

Alright. Yes, this is a game company which focus on mobile games and p2w is the common of them

[indigo shadow]

There's no single link of Brutal Legend, I'm disappointed 😦

[fierce moth]

... <@&1161418687471956101> I guess we can consider kick him now #🎨┃fanart message

[thorn nacelle]

Alexander the Great asked Aristotle if there is luck. Aristotle told him: Luck, my boy, does not exist. Luck is when extraordinary hard preparation meets opportunity.”

☕

[fierce moth]

The ridiculous thing is game stream vibe in China is quite poor vs Europe and NA/SA so I never see any artists are crafting emojis specially. We have similar emoji artists, but they're made for social medias more.

I have seen 3 artists works on emoji stuff, but all of them are influencers at the same time... So they made videos for promoting the latest work

Everydayonecat is the artist who lots of people seen cute cat doodling gif they made I guess

I want to be an influencer too so I can feed myself... By providing services

[blissful token]

Time for kirra to be a streamer

[fierce moth]

I even no idea how to convince myself to speak when playing a game even I'm alone

Watched many of Iron pineapple's videos, the trick he have in his videos is he will share his ideas for current case anytime and he often made a bit funny experiments.

Then I can watch his videos for 30 mins

[vagrant topaz]

I would be down to watch a voxel making stream

[fierce moth]

Sorry I'm addicted to acrylic painting instead 😭

[thorn nacelle]

if i was a female would be 99% a streamer nowdays

its a clean income

[fierce moth]

The behind: Well I'm out of the competition in 3D artists. 2D painting have more chances because I have zero limit if I know how to use my brush.
Textures and sculpting blocked me to learn more on 3d

🤷‍♀️ I wish I could become one of them too, have modern make-up, wear beautiful clothes, don't need to take 30-40mins bus to go to the nearest subway station and go back home when I want to go to supermarket or take an interview

[vagrant topaz]

I'll take it too

[desert jasper]

clark again?

[rough cloak]

bruh, there's a game called wizard cats out on demo on steam. Rogue like arpg and AI scripts spells you craft on the fly, so spells almost always interact differently. It's worth checking out.

[desert jasper]

Eh AI spells that don't behave the same
Sounds terrible to me

[blissful token]

Some streamer dont talk.. they just show hand cam and maybe type in chat

You can also do chair stream

[thorn nacelle]

Chair Stream

nobody wants to listen any Vocals tbh.. its more about anythink else except this xD

[fierce moth]

Yes

[fierce moth]

You mean... Just place a chair in front of the len?

[blissful token]

Its a meme

Sometime the streamer afk too much leaving just the chair in front of the cam and it becomes a chair stream as if the chair is the main character

[desert jasper]

Yeah
I know a streamer who actually always got more weavers when he was afk and started losing those when he came back
eventually he just put up a pic of his chair

[blissful token]

Just dont do hot tub streams. I dont know why it became a category in twitch

[thorn nacelle]

u dont know? its called Money

[desert jasper]

I'm gonna do that

[thorn nacelle]

nowdays its modern as a female to have Onlyfuns account and be a streamer too 😄

[blissful token]

I mean Twitch dont have to open up a category just for that

I guess it helps to organize things better. It let streamer use that tag instead of IRL or Just Chatting

[fierce moth]

No worries, I can make videos only

[sage flame]

Omw to donate

[desert jasper]

Jokes aside
I haven't actually streamed in.. uhh
probably 5 years now if not more

I did get over 100 viewers and chat was always active
didn't have any real reason to stop
just didn't feel like it, I guess

[blissful token]

nub can be twitch partner

People struggle to get 10 viewers copium

[desert jasper]

I could've been yeah

Probably wouldn't get even 10 viewers these days

[thorn nacelle]

thats female think only

as Male u better go out find a normal job 😄

except u doing this just for fun then its different

tbh even as a male u can have high viewers base but requires a lot of effort and usually must be skilled on that X game.

like doing first blood kills on x new rpg game releases or whatever.

[blissful token]

There are many types of streamer

Some are personality streamer

Some speedrunner

Some dont even need to be good with the game they play as long as they are engaging

[desert jasper]

Well
Good thing I'm not good at anything

[blissful token]

You have that labour worker buff physique

👷‍♂️

[desert jasper]

Well that gig stopped the other week

And I need to start going to the gym again

[blissful token]

Gym stream

[desert jasper]

Think my gym has a no recording policy

[blissful token]

Owh..

[vagrant topaz]

If you just live stream but don't record, you are fine no?

[desert jasper]

no

[blissful token]

I guess they dont ask you to surrender your phone but assume everyone to not be using the camera around

[thorn nacelle]

Yes also keep in mind taxes will appear at somepoint if u get slowly popular

But its good income. Personally cant sit infront of pc to do this as basic income living

Milfs Arpg Content only

[fierce moth]

Lisa causes heytea sold out the trio metcha milk... Well

I hope someone can causes EHG's server overload. It means lots of income by selling copies on steam.

Maybe a post, maybe a film, maybe a video, maybe a stream

[fierce moth]

https://x.com/luality/status/1927820212352524290
Let's go

The end of streamers - Join in different game parties or game competitions for free

[fierce moth]

That's the vivid example of opposite sides about that

And she's Canadian so free on visa for lots of countries

[fierce moth]

21% positive for player reviews now

Huge contrast on viewers and followers 🤭

[hot crown]

👋

Streaming, huh. I've forgot when I last did that, let alone why.

[ebon meadow]

The answer is if you sitting in front of pc for 6+ hours a day and you can, why not to stream

You meet new people ,I like helping people with things when was streaming or get help in games like OSRS

Also yea AD and if I m not streaming I have discord and watching something on other screen to

[fierce moth]

https://youtu.be/iAomNITDkwg?si=2FSY8p4fW03wnXE0
@twilit mountain this is an animation you 100% will love.

Clay cat animation... Such a vivid simulation of real cat.

I love that already.

[hot crown]

See, I'm an IT guy who works from home. 🙂 Also a gamerdad whose nuclear-powered torpedo of a kid just so happens to have his foot in cast.

Can't exactly stream a game while [on the phone with some employee ranting about printer issues and whatnot] or [dealing with all the kid's randomness].

Besides, I have nothing in me that would guarantee me any form of success as a streamer. No charisma, no proper environment, weird game/genre preferences, and most importantly arguably one of the worst countries out there to stream anything from, given all the limitations enforced by pretty much everyone out there.

So even if I do stream it's mostly to see how capable my laptop is. 🙂

But that's just me.

[twilit mountain]

Yeah, this is all pretty accurate lol

[vagrant topaz]

Med Check !

[twilit mountain]

Thank you!

Vlad.... Vlad I remembered to get a drink for them, set the drink down on a shelf outside my room, and then forgot it was there

[vagrant topaz]

😅

It's the 3rd day in a row I make myself a coffee for breakfast.
Put it down next to the coffee machine to clean stuff and find the coffee 7 hours later when I come back home from work

[twilit mountain]

Reeeeeal

[hot crown]

...ffs, the kid broke his cast...

History repeats as usual...

[vagrant topaz]

Oh no

[hot crown]

"Oh no" indeed, considering the fact that we likely won't be able to redo it.

Because our healthcare is beyond f----d.

Who would've guessed.

[fierce moth]

Your guys just too insane

I... Alright no memory for this kind of things

[hot crown]

What choice do we even have, considering his absolutely insane unhinged chaos energy.

[fierce moth]

wait. Maybe no time for me to play le recently...

Oooooohhhhhhhhh that's quite hyped for owning these materials.

Let's start from messing up something (colour testing) 😆

Oh 2 layers. Interesting

[fair lake]

You might be surprised how often mod decisions are made by committee 🥲

[sand wigeon]

I would not.

I stated my opinion and it’s one I stand by.

You don’t need to punish someone to call them out for being transphoic, ho—phobic (censored by automod) or insulting people. There’s a baseline when it comes to certain things that are explicitly stated to be against the rules, because the rules exist for a reason.
It’s my belief that something like “let’s all get along,” only gives the people performing those acts more power, as they aren’t being punished. We had community members with that behavior repeat it ad infinitum for months, even close to a year, without being banned.

[fair lake]

That's fair

[south gust]

I think this conversation need to end. This opinion was stated. It doesn't need to continue

[sand wigeon]

May I ask why? We’re having a civil conversation

[south gust]

Because the statement was made based on an opinion and not fact. The decisions made behind closed doors on how to handle the situations you are describing are not as cut and dry as they seem when action is taken. The discussions surrounding those decisions have to take into account more than just what the issue is.

[sand wigeon]

I’ll be frank, it just really seems like I’m not allowed to criticize, and you’re trying to stop me from doing so.

[twilit mountain]

Respectfully, Wick, I disagree with you. As someone who was the deliberate target of those issues on repeat, I have been very vocal about my grievances for a long time with the handling of moderation here, particularly when the only time action was consistently taken is when I was literally being DMed slurs, and have simply given up on trying because it felt like it was falling on deaf ears.

[south gust]

Be frank then. But also take a look at the history of this server. Criticism is encouraged. But after a while it becomes problematic when the same topic is rehashed and no resolution is in sight.

[sand wigeon]

I did take a look at this history of the server. That’s why I said the things I said.

It became bad enough that people started actively creating external servers because the same problem characters were harassing them in the main server.

That’s not, like, refutable. That’s just fact.

And my opinion was not particularly about active moderation, it was just about language used by specifically Ave, something I disagreed with. I like Ave, but I do not believe you can be gentle with those types of people, since being gentle only gives them more breadth to act that way.

[twilit mountain]

Hi, that's me

[sand wigeon]

I understand as a community manager, it feels like I’m criticizing you. And people don’t typically enjoy being criticized. But if it feels that way, maybe consider why you feel criticized, and if what I say has merit.

[south gust]

Personally, I don't mind being criticized. I wouldn't be who I am today without it.
In the case of Ave and the language used, I'd like to see the specific comment you're talking about so I can read them in context. She was also a 3rd party contractor and had to follow the verbiage guidelines of not only EHG, but her own employer as well which were very different.
If she made a mistake, then she made a mistake and I won't refute that. But presently it feels like this conversation is all being brought up now that she's gone.

[twilit mountain]

We've brought it up directly to her before, you can corroborate this with the beesfriends as well, they were there and part of the discussion.

[sand wigeon]

Also it was not one instance. It happened on repeat for her entire duration working at EHG.

It was her default way to publicly handle those situations.

[fierce moth]

Fantastic day, I suppose 😆
That's the result I got by the first layer.

hah, I like these grey gradient colours so much.

[hot crown]

Hiya Wick.

[fierce moth]

Hiya Shadow.

Such a pity that Yarn isn't interested in my paints

Ask for meat is the only reason why she meow at me...

[hardy crane]

the music really sells that clip Kirra haha

I love it

my Mom would just faun over those paints - I did not get her art genes lol

I got my Dad's math and autism genes lmao 😛

[hot crown]

Hiya Muffin.

[hardy crane]

[fierce moth]

I can think about paint an artwork for games I liked like Klojna since now 🤔

[fierce moth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTE_NITDcBw I'm playing this track.

[hardy crane]

nice

it very briefly gave me Jurassic Park vibes too

[fierce moth]

(A hidden gem music youtuber I discoverd recently)

As you see, it's the latest track they posted

[hardy crane]

nice - I like it

[maiden widget]

You can't just not show the full cat

That's unfair to us

[hardy crane]

Archie says hello

[maiden widget]

Archie looks like the goodest boy

[vagrant topaz]

Another Archie !!

[maiden widget]

Store had ox heart tomatoes again today very cool

[hardy crane]

and here is Loki 🙂

[maiden widget]

My home grown one is a bit funny in comparison

[hardy crane]

both of them are Chihuahua mixes

[fierce moth]

Oh...Yarn? She keep meowing when I'm testing colours... Hah clean the palette is tricky. She want to eat my beef sticks

[desert jasper]

Yeah, picture of Yarn

She's cute

[gilded elm]

Tomorrow is move day! Listening to E33 soundtrack is a great way to help me finish packing today lol

[desert jasper]

gl

[fierce moth]

all the best

[gilded elm]

Thanks! Running on fumes at this point, I just want this all to be over haha

[desert jasper]

Yea, fair

[fierce moth]

question, which one is more common on greetings in US, "what's up" or "how are you"?

Oh, what's up = more casual, how are you = more formal. Easy.

[maiden widget]

man i am so hyped about this handheld it's the black gba i always wanted

[fierce moth]

emmmm? IGN didn't give a score and a review? Odd

[acoustic jungle]

Nobody wants to open my stuff...but it's just cute cats! 😔

[thorn nacelle]

After 16-18 years working in Gastronomy last think i would like to do once i return back home from work is to deal with people again.
Streaming means putting efford and supporting your audiance too.Energy required to answer multiple questions.
Used to raid lead first blood kills with 80-90 people on voice could easy turn it into streaming vs other Streamer etc. Problem with me is if i do something gotta be perfect or i dont do it at all.

[umbral moss]

Black addias Nylon wind Pants Swish Swish!!!!!

[fierce moth]

I don't know did Jonathan listened the complaint about the fxck chair but this scene looks quite funny hhh

It's like boss monitoring what are you doing as a casual way but then listen something negative suddenly but the employee don't know that

@junior stirrup Can I ask the community team to grab an environment artist in GGG to show what their daily work like in next interview?
👀 I'm thirsty.

Oh wait their CM is here too... @dusk valley Please 🙏

3:45. Oh yes I hate this mod. Always be frozen if I can't dodge the attack

[junior stirrup]

Thirsty for the art or artist? 😉

[fierce moth]

both of them :)

[thorn nacelle]

this must be the Vision guy

[tawny sand]

KRAFT N

oh i thought i was in general

[fierce moth]

?

???????

That's quite confusing and unexpected that...Judd post an announcement in this time

😅 Isn't he supposed to be fall asleep now?...

Krafton?... Alright first time to hear that

[thorn nacelle]

tried to play bit d4 and its a bugfest... rip

1month left till next poe 2 season prolly will be dead again but lets see

[junior stirrup]

Have you considered playing Diablo 2?

[thorn nacelle]

servers gonna melt again

thats the think mate.. used to raid aka play wow and casual d2 since 2019 offline mostly

played 3-4 years solo offline then tried ladder too but was expecting a new arpg after 2-3 decades will appear

there are also Mod to play for d2r or d2 or even D1 but ya

tbh is the only option left atm. D2 solid

https://github.com/diasurgical/DevilutionX thats the D1 mod version. Ofc Blizzard is focused creating bug seasons in d4 😄

[fierce moth]

hah...Korean game company

Hah...Kraften is Korean game company

That it mean maybe the boss will require le become a pay-to-win game 🤔

Oh... And it mean some change will coming soon here?!

....The info Judd give is overwhelming suudenly

Kraften will join gamescom 2025 🤔

[thorn nacelle]

@fierce mothhere is your future Kirra

the Chad on the right.

[fierce moth]

I don't understand

[thorn nacelle]

nvm 😄

[tawny sand]

the guy ont he right is david brevik though

[fierce moth]

Isn't Chris is game director of GGG? Why are you said he made D2?

[thorn nacelle]

yes can be 😄

wrong name i take it back dont shoot

[tawny sand]

lol

[thorn nacelle]

we didnt go to school together to remember his name 😄

i was not even 13-14years old when first time played d2

[fierce moth]

I want to figure out what "EHG is one of game studio belong to Krafton" mean

[thorn nacelle]

what is Kraften?

[tawny sand]

krafton*

[fierce moth]

?

[thorn nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/yessir-4t-4tomistalt-4tomist-4tmeme-gif-14459048726828889418

[fierce moth]

oh... OH

[tawny sand]

i think you're looking up kraften instead of krafton, maybe at least

but either way krafton acquired ehg, they own ehg now

[thorn nacelle]

last time played an Mobile rpg copy-pasta Wow made from Netease.. was also the last time too

[fierce moth]

🤔 Oh I see. People are shocked EHG be sold suddenly and the game company bought EHG isn't good on reputation

[thorn nacelle]

years later Netease created wow mobile game with Blizzard together too

we talking about Billions

[tawny sand]

basically yeah, due to the subnautica 2 drama

krafton could be in the right in that lawsuit though, i don't really know tbh

[thorn nacelle]

Krafton is Chinese?

[tawny sand]

i think they're korean

[fierce moth]

Korean

[thorn nacelle]

hmm ok

[tawny sand]

they published inzoi and subnautica, that's all i know

[fierce moth]

I guess @gilded elm maybe know Krafton better

[thorn nacelle]

yes he is a Dev he has to know its his job 😄

personally never heard of this Krafton anyway

[fierce moth]

hah... Today is quite chaos

It's obviously that sold the own studio to a game company which bad at reputation will bring lots of discussion and against voices, lose many old le players because of that.

[thorn nacelle]

nowdays dont care tbh if an X company has good or bad reputation. all look the same to me

the result is what matters mostly.

[fierce moth]

Anyways... I belong to EHG already, no extra choice available to me.

[thorn nacelle]

cool 😉

[fierce moth]

What I'm concerned is EHG will be ruined by the new boss 🤷‍♀️ Korean is quite near China so some commons in game industry in Korean will as same as China, which Chinese game market is toxtic exactly

[thorn nacelle]

Korean>Chinese i think

many popular games was made in Korea

pro evolution for example was huge soccer game

which got murdered from Fifa trash

[fierce moth]

🤔 Unfortunately, we can't know why Judd decide to sell EHG to Krafton

[thorn nacelle]

money?

[fierce moth]

My Jesus. I never wish last epoch will pay-to-win at last

[thorn nacelle]

for example GGG its also big company with good reputation right?

check poe 2 nowdays and wonder from where this good reputation its coming from

Everybody loves money thats the only sure

[fierce moth]

Game induatry is quite complicated for me to understand especially on capital

[thorn nacelle]

from 700k

thats what happend when Vision is too big

[fierce moth]

Don't forget GGG own poe. They can balance their reputation by poe

[thorn nacelle]

handsdown this game will never get anythink above 50-70k playerbase ever again

its like i open a new restaurant and goes viral then next week say to my costumers sorry guys i must focus in other restaurant now gtg

[fierce moth]

poe 2 have been the most famous new ARPG in November too

[thorn nacelle]

Poe 2 was pure cash crab

eat the bait like ice-cream 😄

[fierce moth]

well, gameplay's limit

[thorn nacelle]

imagine playing at release and 5-10 people had 500 euro cosmetics

[fierce moth]

GGG want to keep "trading" as the main way to get good gears all the time

[thorn nacelle]

if u feed them with money u expect to have quality at the end

there is literally 0 excuse for this

[fierce moth]

I paid to GGG anyways, on stash

[thorn nacelle]

EU servers since release crashing

even Last Epoch fixed their servers faster

so if GGG with 15years experience into arpg market provides this quality imagine.
Indie companys is the only hope

[fierce moth]

To be honest, employees in game industry also just find a place can earn money only

[thorn nacelle]

i do my job cause i love what i do... if u do something only cause of Money its already gg 😄

here its like 2years almost since d4 naked release and still those people cant manage to bring one decent season

wish i had money to create my own arpg so tired of this

and work 24/7

on general tho dont like this Microtransaction Meta into arpg games.. pay with real money in order to have extra tabs or be able to trade????
those ELEMENTS are for free in any rpg game maestro

they focus too much how to add milking elements into their games instead fixing their servers or optimize their unfinished game

thats why their game is dead 🙂

and for all this i dont blame them.. i blame the playerbase itself. Life works like this

what u give u earn usually.

check Kirra

[fierce moth]

🤔 Well, I still want to join in game industry, but as I said, capital in this industry is quite complicated. Everyone just want money at last, it's sure.

Different people will select different way s to earn money even they're under the same industry. Some of them sell their heart, do everything without considering the feelings and rights of another people, whose players will hate; Some of them keep their heart, do everything to guard the first brief and want to help another people.

No idea will Krafton help EHG as Judd said in the announcement, due to bad behaviours they have before, I think EHG will meet the biggest challenge on the trust of le's players in history.

Plus: Heavy raining is falling when I'm typing these words, strong winds let electricity is unstable.... No idea what happened, literally.

[thorn nacelle]

vs Indie now

why Indie games have possitive Reviews and those Big Multi-Dollar milking companies are around Average?

personally i have huge respect for the last 2 arpg games than the rest. dont care if 1 game has 1 million playerbase or not.

[thorn nacelle]

WIsh you good luck Kirra. But big Companies work like this in any job. they must have profit each 6months they work almost like a Bank..
it is what it is xD

[fierce moth]

It will not change the fact that you'll get more chances if you have been work in Blizzard/GGG.

[thorn nacelle]

Yes ofc

Name helps a lot

quality tho is dead 😄

[fierce moth]

So I'll say the thing which pure players, players who want to join game industry and players who work in game industry will see are different because of their angles.

[thorn nacelle]

times has changed

its hard to find quality in quantity times specially in 2025

but hope always dies last xD