📚┃off-topic

[stuck fossil]

You sicko

[sweet blade]

I'm an Industrial Engineer... how can I say no to something so pretty? 😉

[stuck fossil]

Satisfactory is like taking one facet of crafting survival and turning the tism levels up to 1000

[keen wind]

This feels a lot like it, I had fun playing PoE 2 for the amount of time I did but it was definitely the Souls enjoyer in me way more than the ARPG enjoyer

[stuck fossil]

I'm trying to remember the industrial engi jokes my electrical engineer roommate used to make

[sweet blade]

And when you combine this with the very fast endgame play... Souls players will bounce on maps because the playstyle will be so different, and the ARPG players will resent slogging through the Souls gameplay to get to the ARPG play.

[maiden widget]

oh yeah i mostly ignore maps cos the endgame feels so tacked on and unfitting

[sweet blade]

IE stands for Imaginary Engineering. It would be more of a joke if the Dean of Engineering at my school didn't believe it.

[solemn harness]

It just seems stupid to me. Like, GGG knows the ARPG market isn't small. Their problem is entirely marketing and budget related, not genre-related. Diablo 4 is an awful game, but it (and Diablo 3) did incredibly well in terms of sales.

[sweet blade]

I have 4 EEs in my family. Believe me, I know the jokes. 😉

[stuck fossil]

Put some respec on d3

[solemn harness]

Diablo 3 sold more than Elden Ring, and people lost their minds over that game.

[maiden widget]

yeah but they got the arpg market cornered so far, they wanted to get new players in imo

and i dont think ggg will ever attract the diablo only crowd that didn't do both anyway

[sweet blade]

GGG and even more their player base don't even WANT the Diablo crowd. Which shows that they're not going for market share here.

[pine basalt]

don't starve together ?

[stuck fossil]

Really? Didn't know that. First arpg I really got grindy with.

[stuck fossil]

I've starved together many a time, great game, great mod community.

[sweet blade]

First Diablo game in 10 years, coming off of D2? I'm not surprised at all. 😉

[pine basalt]

Project Zomboid ?

POE 2 ? it became a survival game no ? ;O

[sweet blade]

WHEEZING....

[stuck fossil]

According to everyone coming into this discord, they make it seem like they just experienced their own 9/11

[solemn harness]

He asked for a solo crafting survival game. PoE 2 could be called a survival game, but it's definitely not a crafting game, and arguably not a solo game either 🤣

[stuck fossil]

this looks interesting

[sweet blade]

No... they're far too articulate. 9/11 was far more traumatic.

[stuck fossil]

I mean you have the most traumatized of them all blocked 😉

[sweet blade]

I guess I'm saying that 9/11 was numbing... it didn't cause that kind of outburst.

[pine basalt]

Sorry don"t play solo survival neither POE :x but yeah poe2+crafting "infamous"

Easy game !

[solemn harness]

probably not something anyone is ever going to ask for specifically, but if anyone wants a game recommendation: Crystal Project on Steam is very fun

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1637730/Crystal_Project/

[abstract karma]

these are builds which will get nerf as that Tornado effect from Spear skill today

[fierce moth]

Poe 2 isn't fun to play at all because I can't craft my items, le isn't fun to play because I don't want to farm high roll on my blessings anymore.

So I have no idea what should I play

[abstract karma]

either different theme of game or different arpg

[sweet blade]

High-roll blessings aren't really... that important to gain.

[sweet blade]

Yeah, GGG is very consistent in nerfing problematic builds, at least as they see them.

[abstract karma]

I finished original TI (DLC i might to later) and now i trying figure out these 2 weeks too

I have 3 options:
Classic RPG feeling
Adventure based on Horor
FPS

[pine basalt]

at least the one they "see" (hide your builds guys !)

[fierce moth]

Numbers still influence a lot in le... I want more defense but the game just don't give me that blessing or higher value for the same blessing is an upset thing too

[abstract karma]

Well that Tornado buff increase was actually pretty broken if you read that "patch" 😄 like how the f.. they missed that before release

[sweet blade]

Haven't looked at a single thing directly about PoE2 since the Patch notes.

[fierce moth]

you don't want all of your blessings under the lowest value when you want to gain more corruption

[pine basalt]

Yeah Defensive Blessing can matter (70% crit avoid - Endu cap), but you can Farm them easy with harbinger lvl 5 and 200 corruption (and glyph of envy)

200 corru = 5 choices, lvl 5 harbinger reput make "roll 2 times"

[sweet blade]

Sure, but to the point that you're losing motivation to play the game?

[fierce moth]

I have passed T4 Julra's test already but I don't reach my goal yet, 500c

[pine basalt]

happened 1 time when i started the game, but now using 200 corru + harby reput it's WAy easier / faster

[stuck fossil]

I settled on Soulmask since I apparently own it? Not sure when I bought this

[sweet blade]

Hm, I guess that makes sense.

[pine basalt]

GG ! i think Julra T4 is harder than 500c

[fierce moth]

I lost my motivation when 340c

[teal flame]

Probably depends on your build

[sweet blade]

I normally start a new build if I lose motivation with a current build.

[pine basalt]

true, can have a boss kill ez julra but not so good in Mono

[teal flame]

I need to actually kill Abb before Season 2. I always peter out after hitting empowered monos

[fierce moth]

oh good idea... Ok maybe find a new build to plan can get my motivation back

let me check out any heartseeker builds they've planned already

[cold junco]

I have been playing PoE 2 for the new update and straight up not having a good time. and I don't want to start a new run for Last epoch with the update right around the corner, Anyone got a recommendation for me to play? I've been thinking about trying grim dawn.

[sweet blade]

Grim Dawn could probably fill the interlude.

[abstract karma]

If you finished Titan Quest, Grimd Dawn will be upgrade otherwise be ready that its slow movement game until you find a few items and speed buffs

[stuck fossil]

Grim Dawn has a ton of mods too

[cold junco]

Have you played it? What class do you think is fun? I was a warlock witch in Last epoch

[stuck fossil]

It's a little slow for my ADHD zoom zoom brain but it's widely loved

[cold junco]

Oooh on steam or nexus?

[sweet blade]

I have, at least some. Shaman Occultist would fit best.

[stuck fossil]

Nexus

[cold junco]

Shaman occultist. Aight I'll give it a whirl

[stuck fossil]

unfortunately. Nexus is great but I like workshop integration

[sweet blade]

Something like that. Occultist is a straight-up Warlock. Your secondary class could be anything.

[stuck fossil]

Theres also torchlight 2, hundreds of mods for that as well.

[abstract karma]

Idk wht class is fun in Grim Dawn but some ppl goes Arcanist or basically any mage

[cold junco]

Don't understand why most games don't do that.
Steam workshop is a godsend in my opinion.

Torchlight 2...sounds familiar. Will look into it.

[stuck fossil]

Think it just depends on engine how viable that is

[abstract karma]

If you dont like WoW graphic be ready on Torchlight 2 😄

[cold junco]

Hmmm. Hmm. Okay okay. I'll look into it.

[stuck fossil]

Yeah TL2 is an oldy, worse than diablo 3 graphically

[cold junco]

Like early wow graphics? Cause graphics don't have to be great if the art directions good

[sweet blade]

It definitely has a WoW art style to it... TL2... I wouldn't say offhand that it's worse than D3, but I'd have to review to recall.

[stuck fossil]

Yeah maybe not worse, different

[cold junco]

Looks more jovial and cartoony. Not bad. I'll look into it and see if there's a sale or discount I can get for it.

(Look up Torchlight, there's a new one that's out? Doesn't have good reviews though...)

[sweet blade]

TLI is quite different.

[pine basalt]

+1 Team Grim Dawn ! (ssf hc friendly - exploration rewards you)

What does EHG staff think about POE 2 players ?

[teal flame]

I had a similar problem, so I'm actually playing LE. But builds that I'm not planning to play in S2, things that are low on my list so I don't burn out on the ones I really want to try.

[stuck fossil]

Torch Light infinite is Diablo Immortal adjascent I believe

as in mobile game design and p2w mechanics

[cold junco]

Ewwww gross ...

[cold junco]

See I did that and made builds for one of every class back in season 0 and highly burnt myself out. Did get 300 hours worth of fun though!

[teal flame]

Fair enough, I've only been doing a couple builds

[cold junco]

I have no idea what that in the parenthesis means but I will take that+1 vote of confidence for grin dawn!

[sweet blade]

Is Pvt. Vlad paid staff of EHG?

[cold junco]

Warlock is still my favorite In last epoch, unarmed falconer is a close second, right next to Void knight

[pine basalt]

SSF = solo self found - playing allone ; HC = Hardcore (when you die you LOOSE your character - rewarding exploration = you discover stuff and secrete by "going out off the roads) ^^

[pine basalt]

i don't know but he has got a priviledge unique BEES Skin

[abstract karma]

Thing i dont like on TI neither Grim Dawn is lock of diff.. These games are quite long and i just want pure hardcore start on Legendary (fact that legendary tweaks drops, bosses, quests even gives additional points)

[cold junco]

Thank you! I am not familiar with lingos lol

[pine basalt]

yeah when i read advices on the Rogue channel ""pick your SD for LM bbs capped ET WG bonus"

[sweet blade]

I assume that anyone that doesn't have EHG in front of their names is a volunteer.

[pine basalt]

so who's that guy ?

[sweet blade]

I'm an engineer military brat, and I think I just had an aneurysm trying to read that.

[pine basalt]

a SPY ! there is no "ehg"

[sweet blade]

Fair enough, but I thought he was well known. I'll note that he does fit into the Eleventh Hour Games category.

[solemn harness]

https://tenor.com/view/wizrd-of-oz-pay-no-attention-man-behind-curtain-gif-9488490

that's judd

[pine basalt]

it's just me that is ignorant, i play games i don't "look around" too much

[sweet blade]

Ah.

[desert jasper]

No

[sweet blade]

That's what I thought. Thanks. 🙂

[desert jasper]

community managers are though

[abstract karma]

Moderator getting paid ? Are you unfrozen from 2004+ ? The time moderators had actually on forums and games some "paid jobs" or Testers which were getting paid for giving feedback on state of alpha / beta game and not opposite like now

[fierce moth]

hhhhhhhhhhhh sorry hhhhhhhhhh

[sweet blade]

If I say yes, will you believe me?

[abstract karma]

Nah i would probably think you are old guy like me

or "girl" or AI bot 🤔

[sweet blade]

Old.

[pine basalt]

But Gold ?

[sweet blade]

I feel I need that word tattooed on my forehead.

[sweet blade]

Not at all.

[abstract karma]

i want back gold times of mmorpg developing not scam which is now >.>

[pine basalt]

private wow classic / daoc / your mmo servers ?

[abstract karma]

Tera ruined my tab target enjoyment

[fierce moth]

I can't enjoy le now too, so Dread's video is make sense. I don't want to hurt a game I love in this way

[abstract karma]

Play different type of game as i said

something for immersion or just FPS nonsense

[pine basalt]

FPS : Time Splitter 2 ! gogogo

[abstract karma]

well i meant something more like Serious Sam, Doom or another fast paced FPS..

Some FPS which just screw your adrenaline that you wont think about izometrict ARPG at all 😄

[pine basalt]

those ":!:§!*:" running all around omg !

[stuck fossil]

One of my favorite games. My buddy and I probably sunk 100+ hours in like 2 weeks on his gamecube when we discovered this

the AI matches led to endless fun. Zombie mode playing as the monkey (because they were faster iirc?) so good

[pine basalt]

Yeah you could even create map ? was solo but i member multi had crazy personalization

[stuck fossil]

game felt ahead of its time

[pine basalt]

it was waaaay ahead ; i learn that it was made by N64 Golden-Eye team

Found TS3 less fun

[stuck fossil]

That checks out

felt similar

reminded me that I always thought the AK looked like a pencil

[teal flame]

Just makes me think of the original Perfect Dark

[pine basalt]

wtf pencil were you using ? xD

[stuck fossil]

I wasn't a bright kid. Not a bright adult either but I digress

[stuck fossil]

Had to sneak play this since it was rated M, i scratched off the rating

[pine basalt]

"most stolen thing at school"

[sweet blade]

Clickety-clickety-clickety-click.

[stuck fossil]

trying to push down multiple at once

[pine basalt]

TF is wrong with people wanting ehg to "move release again" because muh poe2 ?

what do you thing vlad ?

and you Mike ?

[vagrant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-slide-baby-later-peace-out-gif-19322436

[pine basalt]

<"

[vagrant topaz]

So what is the max I can set that up

A CENTURY !

OOF

[pine basalt]

i won't be missed ;'(

[pine basalt]

so... how Kiwi is gonna be banned forever ?

[stuck fossil]

good game

I'm trying soulmask, the fan service is a little intense, this is the default model

[sweet blade]

I've seen far worse.

You'd think that if they were going for more blatant fanservice they'd pull in the waist a bit.

[stuck fossil]

the only adjustable options

[sweet blade]

Interesting.

[vagrant topaz]

Since you are flexing

If I X an item I own

Is it gone for good ?

[pine basalt]

yeah drop it during the run, there is "blue mark" for non weeled items

[keen wind]

👀 should maybe play a bit more of that game when I'm not dealing with the actions of my consequences (thesis deadline in about a month)

[vagrant topaz]

Not sure I understand what you mean

If I drop my Ring of Fire on the ground

Will I be able to use it next run ?

[pine basalt]

can't take back for this run

YES

this show you can take it before the run

this show u didn't put it in the weel

"empower" item cannot be putted in wheel

or maybe you can now....

[vagrant topaz]

Can Burn, Frost and Shock Crit ?

[vagrant topaz]

Still no

[pine basalt]

Can't remember, game change a lot (had 100% achiev 180/180, Dev added 320 achiev ><" )

i think it's like Last Epoch, more shock should do more stack / damage

Only down side of hall of torment is 30min runs / can be halved later

[stuck fossil]

big fan of this mechanic, turbo mode or whatever they called it in Vampire survivors

[pine basalt]

i stopped VS because 1 dlc / year chasing achiev

would have buy if separate game, but i don't regret

[stuck fossil]

i think i had it at 100% early on o_o

But yeah i remember every time i logged in there was like 30 more achievments they were updating so regularly

[pine basalt]

i love the "infinite AFK gold farm"

Achiev when ?

Lvl 100 ssh hc ; kill Abyby ssf hc

"as beastmaster be eaten by your own squirels"

"drop to 0 hp as a Lich"

"found the Bee secret level, the Lizzard secret level then enter the secret level" that kind of achiev

[stuck fossil]

Wonder when they'll add achievements

Would be a nice side thing to farm when seasons wind down

[pine basalt]

it's a bit useless / clearly not a priority

better add /death /played command ! :p

[pine basalt]

achiev are not season link, do it 1 time and it's done

[stuck fossil]

Yeah steam achievements 1 time, maybe seasonal in game challenges/achievements way later

[keen wind]

Alright did one run before bed, got some kind of leech shirt to keep, looked nuts

[vagrant topaz]

[crisp onyx]

would be better if they made poe way

complete per league

[crisp onyx]

i was told you are sentinel guy

give me warpath build

[pine basalt]

I agree , but it's a lot of work, so i would prefere / time played before :p

[pine basalt]

wait 11th !

[crisp onyx]

sshh, i want it now so i can complain when it will be broken in s2

[gilded elm]

Only 10% more and then it turns into Mostly Negative lol

This score is dropping so fast

[sweet blade]

I doubt it will get down that fast, but maybe...

[solemn harness]

unless there's a big spike in positive reviews in the next 3 weeks it will hit mostly negative even if no new reviews are posted at all, just because the window for "recent" reviews will move forward and stop including all of the positive reviews from march

335 positive vs 1498 negative today, 421 positive vs 1255 negative yesterday

[sweet blade]

So what you're saying is that it's possible PoE2 will hit Mostly Negative Reviews right around when Season 2 releases? Oh the irony...

[crisp onyx]

https://youtu.be/RCYfyHQ0iIs?t=474
timestamp, remembered how someone mentioned 'positive persona'

[pine basalt]

Wait until POE 2 new balance patch the 15th, Everybody will praise it !

[sweet blade]

I'm just waiting for the announcement.

[pine basalt]

"it's a shadow-balance patch made in ggg" xD

i'll talk LE here, general has by invaded 😮

[sweet blade]

It's soooo funny. 🙂

[gilded elm]

I was wondering if that's how the window worked, and yeah if so then we should see a major drop once the March positives fall outside the window.

[blissful token]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3746205

[fierce moth]

🤭 But they just ignore players needs crafting to improve their gears during the campaign even multiple changes they're cooking...

[carmine trench]

If you're not a developer, you're free. You're working, crunching, and you're constantly being accused and pushed. And a f*cking pike with cancer. One needs one thing, the other needs another.
Well, everything is not done with a click. There is no way to hire and debug the process for millions of testers. No, I know everything. You don't do it, you consume it. Have some respect, at least don't pull it off. In 4 months, you won't believe it, a lot of work has been done - compare it with other games.
And yes, there are a lot of problems in the game, but without building a foundation, take up the platbands...

[carmine trench]

paste about poe 2

[gilded elm]

I've been a professional software engineer for almost two decades. No business (not even my own employer) is above criticism. Either bend to your consumers, or lose them.

You run a business, sell a product, and consumers don't like it? That's too bad, fix the problem or lose their business lol. There are plenty of current and upcoming competitors in the ARPG market right now.

[teal flame]

Something that Zizaran says that I really agree with is: Players are really good at telling you when there is a problem. What they aren't good at is telling you how to fix it

[gilded elm]

Absolutely. And more importantly, it's not the player's job to explain it, either. That's the developer's job to ask the right questions. Players know when they're having fun or not, but they are terrible game designers.

Empathy is something you have towards people. Not businesses, not transactions. I have no empathy for GGG receiving a ton of backlash for this patch, because they deserved it. I feel for Jonathan, Mark and everyone, though. But this is ultimately a business relationship, and consumers have no obligation to empathize with poor business decisions.

[fierce moth]

Ok I'm go to Rome :)
This type of pasta is quite time-consuming to boil... 2x time than linguine

[light forge]

Yeah I feel for the people, but the decisions they make have me really scratching my head.

[gilded elm]

They are at least addressing the concerns, but it seems underwhelming IMO. It seems like this is sort of the pacing they want this game to be.

The thread makes me a little more concerned than I was before.

Because it feels like they are conceding so little.

[teal flame]

People don't mind the slower pacing really, but the problem is their stated goals of slowing down the game don't really give with the changes they're making to it.

Like slowing down the players, yes, but combo gameplay doesn't work when you get swarmed and stunned constantly

[light forge]

Ziz has an interview on Tuesday with the devs and his first question is going to be about the reaction and the pacing.

[teal flame]

Yeah, I'm quite curious how that will go

[gilded elm]

Same, should be really interesting. Hopefully we get a straightforward answer on what their vision is and whether or not this is a game that's made for me.

[light forge]

I'll say if they ever add WASD to PoE1 I'll def go check it out.

I just can't deal with PoE1's point click. I was able to adapt to LE's though

[fierce moth]

Yeah. I don't know how to design the game will let me get better experience in this game, but I know what are they did would ruin my experience.

I spent money for good experience. But bad experience I got only now so it's deserve to ask our honest feedback with GGG even they're negative.

[gilded elm]

I had to stop using WASD in PoE2, I don't think I'll ever be able to really use WASD in an isometric game.

[teal flame]

oh man, I had the opposite reaction. Going back to POE1 after playing POE2 really sucked for me

[gilded elm]

The problem with WASD for me in an isometric game is that it's not top down or 2D, it's an angled perspective which doesn't mentally translate correctly for me with WASD.

[gilded elm]

I agree! Negative feedback is still good feedback!

[light forge]

the biggest issue with this patch has been
Nerfing damage
Scaling tweaks (Basically another nerf.)
Monster health increase
Combo's being forced for everything.

We basically got nerfed in four ways, making the issue quadratic rather then linear.

[cold junco]

So downloaded Grim dawn and having a blast! My friend recommended I get Dawn of masteries mod and I'm having a lot of fun! Also tried Torchlight 2 good too! Modded it and was trying the dragoon mod alot of fun! I definitely got something to keep me entertained till last epoch season 2!

[gilded elm]

Get yourself GrimTex too for the upscaled textures 🙂

Helps a little to bring GD into the modern age

[cold junco]

Oooh grimtex? Can I install that while I'm already mid campaign without having to restart?

[gilded elm]

Yeah, GrimTex is actually just a folder you dump into a location and the game will simply load those textures instead of the default ones from the game data. It's a built-in replacement feature in the game's engine

You can replace a lot of the game's assets that why, even things like the font

[cold junco]

Nice! I'ma do that right now!

[gilded elm]

https://www.nexusmods.com/grimdawn/mods/141

Very simple instructions

The GrimShade stuff is extra, I've never tried that myself personally. That's something new that the author just released. Could try it if you want, but not familiar with the process myself.

Oh looks like that's just a ReShade preset that you install, if you're familiar at all with that process from modding other games.

[cold junco]

not in the slightest lol

[gilded elm]

Yeah then feel free to ignore the GrimShade stuff if it's overwhelming.

[cold junco]

will do! thanks again!

[cold junco]

do you reccomend the 50% or the 100%? i have a pretty good cpu (4060)

[gilded elm]

You probably want either 2x or 4x. 50% means downscaled to half resolution of the default, so it's good for things like devices, like the Steam Deck.

[sweet blade]

I don't expect one.

[gilded elm]

Try 4x, see how it goes, then if it's laggy or anything, replace it with 2x.

[fierce moth]

I want to play titan quest 2 only but this game is far away from the release 😵

[gilded elm]

If download size is an issue, just do 2x IMO

[cold junco]

4x O.O okay okay ill see about that.

[gilded elm]

Yeah, upscaled to 4 times the default resolution. Things should look very sharp and detailed by comparison.

[gilded elm]

I wonder if that's because if they commit to what their "vision" is and say it plainly, the game will be dead forever lol.

[sweet blade]

I don't think it would be dead, but I do think they will lose too much revenue.

[cold junco]

yall talking about POE2 ? they just did another hotfix today. Enemy Mob HP down from 400% down to 94%

sorry of "rare" monsters

[sweet blade]

GGG seems to only care about two things right now: their Vision for PoE2, and maintaining hegemony in the ARPG market. And I believe that they won't accomplish both, and I am very curious as to which they break. They broke their vision in PoE1... But I dunno.

[gilded elm]

They're about to lose control of the market they effectively built over the years lol

[sweet blade]

I'd quibble over your terms but I agree with the sentiment

[cold junco]

i think they can recover, games still in EA no impossible

[gilded elm]

No doubt, but there's an opportunity cost here that's often ignored.

Competitors are growing, new ones are upcoming.

Maybe they recover after a series of blunders, but at what cost?

[sweet blade]

I don't think they can recover without compromising their Vision, at least in the short term. And they are loath to do it, with good reason.

[sweet blade]

This goes to show that they simply do not understand the fundamental issues, or perhaps how to solve them.

[gilded elm]

Not to mention all of the neglect of PoE1, which is as far as I know still their breadwinner.

GGG is very clearly spread thin right now.

They're trying to realize a vision under intense pressure.

[sweet blade]

Many PoE1 players will jump ship almost out of spite at this point.

[sweet blade]

They really have no one to blame but themselves.

[gilded elm]

It's understandable. For a decade, PoE1 players and GGG have had "an understanding" so to speak. Players knew the business model. Release a new league with new supporter packs every few months. Understandably PoE1 players feel betrayed at this point.

It's almost as if GGG is spitting in the face of their most loyal customers.

[sweet blade]

I would say not that they feel betrayed, but that they WERE betrayed.

[gilded elm]

At this point, I can't disagree with that. It's hard to justify this level of neglect when put into the context of Dawn of the Hunt. Like... "this is what PoE1 died for" vibes.

[sweet blade]

Even if 0.2 was good, the betrayal would still be there. As it is, the betrayal didn't even have an upside.

It's like Jonathan et al. don't understand basic project management.

[gilded elm]

Yeah for sure, it just stings harder especially because 0.2 was so bad (in a popular sense)

[sweet blade]

Biggest software related one here is '9 women can't produce a baby in a month'.

[gilded elm]

Ah, Brook's Law

[sweet blade]

Is that its formal name? Cool.

[gilded elm]

Yeah, attributed to Fred Brooks, so "Brooks' Law"

[sweet blade]

Makes sense. I guess I had this vague concern in my mind about everything when I heard about the resource shift. I was thinking, "That isn't going to help as much as fans think it will.". Now, I think that GGG doesn't get it either.

[gilded elm]

I wonder if just being an NZ studio that mandates relocation makes hiring just a pain in the ass. I imagine talent is way harder for them to acquire.

[sweet blade]

First, they can move if they want. Second, no one is making them build a game that they can't get talent for.

It's not like the labor issues aren't well known to them by this point.

[gilded elm]

Yeah, this is still entirely on GGG. I'm just wondering what the bottlenecks here are, and if it's really just that they're struggling to acquire talent lol

[sweet blade]

Requiring relocation is also weird. I am 99% certain that EHG doesn't require it.

[gilded elm]

I always thought EHG was fully remote lol

EHG has talent everywhere across the globe

[sweet blade]

Yep.

[gilded elm]

I imagine their bottleneck is money, not people

[sweet blade]

GGG does give off the 'muh company culture' vibe.

[sweet blade]

I assume the reverse.

[gilded elm]

Well I mean, no money to hire more people

Can't imagine actually finding people is harder for EHG than it is for GGG because of the whole relocation thing.

[sweet blade]

With all the money they made from PoE2? Hard to believe.

[gilded elm]

Oh no, I meant EHG

EHG's bottleneck is probably money, not people

[sweet blade]

Oh! Almost certainly.

[gilded elm]

GGG's bottleneck seems likely to be people, not money

Which makes me think about the whole relocation requirement

Can't imagine it's easy to find software engineers who want to move to NZ for mediocore pay.

[sweet blade]

Yeah, but EHGs global nature means that they don't have to pay as much for their team, all things being equal.

[gilded elm]

Yup

[sweet blade]

NZ is very expensive to live in, IIRC.

[gilded elm]

And also just, not in a place most people want to be.

[sweet blade]

They got Octavian at least.

[gilded elm]

What is his position there, do you know?

[sweet blade]

I think he is more on the design side than the coding side, but I honestly don't know.

[gilded elm]

I imagine his tenure affords him decent pay at this point, but yeah at least they do have a lot of noteworthy talent.

[light forge]

Let me know if anyone can find "The Vision" my new glasses haven't come in yet.

[gilded elm]

Can't imagine mid-level engineers wanting to relocate across the globe for mid-level pay haha

[sweet blade]

I think it is pretty much under a spotlight right now...

[sweet blade]

Especially not from the US.

[gilded elm]

Yeah hell no, working as a software engineer in the US is F'ing amazing.

[light forge]

Meanwhile, LE's over here literally fixing one of the biggest issues with loot in RPG's: Set Bonuses.

[sweet blade]

More referring to the tax implications.

[light forge]

I'm not gonna lie the new Set Affix shard system still blows my mind that no one thought of something like this sooner.

[gilded elm]

I don't know what tax treaty the US has with NZ, it might not be that bad. But the career opportunities here in the US are undoubtedly far greater.

[sweet blade]

Rather, though that was a self-inflicted issue on EHGs part.

[light forge]

Oh really? Honeslty I've felt like that with set bonuses in a lot of games
Set bonuses good = gear can't be too good
Gear is good=bonuse can't be too good.

[sweet blade]

I thought about it a day or so after experiencing legendary items: 'They should have a reverse legendary system for set items.'

[gilded elm]

I'm not a fan of sets in general. At least, not 3-6 piece sets and such. I think up to like 2 pieces are fine. But sets just fundamentally seem to go against the idea of build diversity.

[sweet blade]

If nothing else, they chose to have set items.

[light forge]

I honestly really like the Legendary system even though you can loose your unique to RNG

It actually makes the item feel legendary that you have to go through a dungeon to actually craft it.

[sweet blade]

LE crafting shows a lot of insight, understanding, and care.

[light forge]

I love it sooo much over PoE2's slot machine

[sweet blade]

I like it over PoE1's systems. I won't give PoE2's systems the time of day.

[light forge]

Also forging potential is a really nice limiter on it, and in a way kind of makes sense in a IRL way to? Like, you legit can only make a sword so sharp before your just shaving away metal lol.

[gilded elm]

Man I hope Ziz doesn't pull punches during the interview, but somehow I doubt it. He does have to look at this from a "career" perspective.

[light forge]

I was watching his stream earlier, the big question about reaction and pacing is at the top of his google doc right now and he didn't change it.

[sweet blade]

He will hit harder than Ziggy. That bar is underground, I realize, but it's probably true.

[gilded elm]

Hahaha

[light forge]

I like Ziggy, but he also just seems like someone who doesn't have an angry or rage based bone in his body lol.

[sweet blade]

The issue isn't one of asking the question. The issue is one of following up on it after they give the standard BS response.

[light forge]

He also got on the Rake+Stomping grounds train early so his campaign experience hasn't been nearly as rough as 99% of players.

[gilded elm]

Yeah, they let GGG dictate the direction of the conversation. Like when Jonathan said to basically stop talking about the AH when the question was brought up lmao

[light forge]

AH?

[gilded elm]

Auction House

[light forge]

ah

[gilded elm]

lol

[light forge]

Does the 11 in EGH stand for 11 devs?

[sweet blade]

'Eleventh Hour' is part of a saying.

[gilded elm]

Nope, "the 11th hour" is just a figure of speech.

[light forge]

ah gotcha.

[gilded elm]

I believe there's a story around EHG specifically and the phrase

[sweet blade]

Specifically, it means 'in the nick of time'. Kinda tells you how they view themselves in the market.

Besides the obvious time correspondence to their game.

[gilded elm]

It's like when something happens at the last moment.

[light forge]

Cause I was about to say could someone tell me how an ARPG made by 11 people has better loot, crafting, pacing, rewards, leveling, then a game made by a studio with 10 years of dev time on this exact genere and they were making a sequel to something people already loved.

[sweet blade]

So what do you like to play, Phoenix?

[light forge]

O: you got the reference!

[sweet blade]

Nihongo de hanaseru no de...

[light forge]

OH I don't speak JP.

[gilded elm]

You know what's crazier? I have this ARPG that I really like, it's called GhostLore. It's developed by 2 people. I think even that's a richer, more fun experience than PoE2 currently.

[light forge]

GhostLore?

[gilded elm]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1783280/Ghostlore/

This game is... amazing.

[light forge]

My first character was a Harvest Lich, second character was a Beast Master druid with Plague Tongue.

[sweet blade]

I just said 'because I can speak Japanese...' leaving implied 'I can read your name'.

Interesting. I play Sentinel and Mage mostly.

[sweet blade]

I will check it out.

[twilit mountain]

IIRC it's because a lot of them were still holding day jobs whilst working on the early stages of the game, so they were working during "the eleventh hour"

[gilded elm]

Highly recommended. The game actually uses 3D models that are then pixelated, from a tech point of view it's really interesting the way they made it too.

[sweet blade]

Makes sense though something about midnight oil would have fit that meaning better.

[light forge]

Yeah that retro graphics is something I've not seen in an ARPG, I might check that out.

[sweet blade]

You'd think I would like retro graphics but no...

[gilded elm]

Hah, that sounds right! I remember I think Mike was explaining it once on stream.

[light forge]

I wanna get into sentiel to try and live out my proper "Forgemaster" vibe I was trying to get from Smith of Kitava, but I feel like I should wait till the rework hits.

[sweet blade]

Warrior, ooof.

[twilit mountain]

We just need to hope FG gets some damage this patch, it's already rolling in defense.

[light forge]

Ironically its one of the better picks on 0.2

[gilded elm]

I have more faith at this point that EHG will be far more receptive to player concerns rather than making a post with tiny concessions and pretending that will fix the game lol.

So even if things start out a bit rough, I feel good about them getting better.

[light forge]

I'm okay with having a slower character if it means my armor actually does something >.>

[sweet blade]

That's horrifying.

[sweet blade]

That's the understatement of the year.

[twilit mountain]

Trust me, if you handle it right your armor does a lot here. I hit effective armor cap last season and only died to my own misplays.

[light forge]

Okay I have to rant about armor in PoE2. I do not understand how armor is less effective against bigger hits is a thing.

Like I get it, a big enough hit will shatter any armor IRL but dude.

[sweet blade]

Is there a popcorn emoji?

[gilded elm]

Ugh, I hate that the post just made me more distrustful because those concessions were so insignificant lol

It's like... "are you F'ing listening?"

[twilit mountain]

🍿

[light forge]

"We heard the maps are to big...that's it."

[gilded elm]

"We hear you, that is all."

[twilit mountain]

Did they ever address that the armor calcs on PoE2 are the old ones that are less effective?

[gilded elm]

It's an upgraded version of Diablo 4 devs' "We hear you"

[sweet blade]

I don't think weaker armor against bigger hits makes sense when you also have armor break mechanics.

[sweet blade]

Feature not bug but they did improve it slightly, but nowhere close to PoE1 levels.

[light forge]

Just opened Ziggy's stream, he is struggling in T1 maps rn. "Pretty sure this is like 3x -4x harder then my first t1 at launch."

[twilit mountain]

Pain.

[sweet blade]

Nor do I think it is smart to have this mechanic when it's the only real way to mitigate physical damage.

[light forge]

Yeah, armor break is the only mechanic that totally removes a defensive layer.

[sweet blade]

The icing on the cake is that Jonathan was asked directly if they were improving armor right before the patch, and he acted like there were no problems with armor.

[light forge]

There's no "ES null" or "Evade debuff" (unless you take Acrobatics ig) and there's like 1 modifer that surpress life regen and recovery.

Meanwhile armor can literally get deleted by a pack of blue mobs.

[sweet blade]

There are any number of unblockable attacks, though

[sweet blade]

And the 20% increased physical damage taken while Armor broken applies to players, I think.

[light forge]

yeah it does.

[twilit mountain]

Don't worry, if you don't take Acro they debuffed you by making about 60% of attacks unevadeable

[light forge]

I've been using it on my warrior to clear with Armor Explosions.

[light forge]

I can't believe they made Acrobatics take 75% of evade instead of 70. Like do we really think evasion builds where the problem? Meanwhile the only change they did to ES was remove Grim Feast.

[sweet blade]

What a total shit show. The only thing worse are the numbers of people willing to put up with it.

[light forge]

Oh trust me man people are mAAAAd

I'm in the PoE2 discord and reddit.

[sweet blade]

They're still playing.

[light forge]

I haven't seen a meltdown this bad since Helldivers 2

[twilit mountain]

Blame Reddit tbqh. They tunnel visioned EV and ES being "OP" (ES was a little bit more due to specific interactions imo) and armor being shit while ignoring that EV is dogwater without Acro. So, what's the solution? Nerf them.

[light forge]

Oh I forgt they nerfed wind dancer to. Doesn't give a 4th stage anymore.

[sweet blade]

ES to me is just... Ridiculous compared to everything else. Sure, they nerfed Ghostwrithe and CI, and Grim Feast, but... Wut?

[gilded elm]

Found this EotFS tutorial earlier, was very helpful. You might find it useful to: https://youtu.be/Tk7ZhyDKn44

[sweet blade]

Worse than 3.15 for PoE 1…?

[light forge]

max tailwind, wind dancer, full evade stack ranger with Acro. Can't even get 69 smh

[light forge]

I've not played PoE 1 so I can't say

[sweet blade]

Ah. Just wondering.

[twilit mountain]

3.15 was pretty bad reaction but I don't think it was this level of bad. The most diehard streamers are quitting the league because it sucks, even they toughed it out then.

[sweet blade]

Good to know.

I almost want EHG to run a promotion to give anyone with a probably valid PoE2 key to get a free MTX.

[gilded elm]

Ziz said it best, "Streamers would rather stop playing and make less money than play this" lmao

[sweet blade]

Making it a Weta would be the ultimate knife twist.

I just can't bring myself to believe that GGG is so clueless that they don't understand that people don't want what they're selling.

[gilded elm]

It would make more sense if this wasn't all happening at the expense of PoE1.

Like sure, make your "vision."

But that they are doing this while PoE1 is dying a slow death is... wow lol

[sweet blade]

I wonder if GGG has the chutzpah to close down PoE1 with the reason being that not enough people are supporting PoE2 to justify keeping both games.

[gilded elm]

Doubt it, I'd be skeptical if PoE2 is a reliable revenue stream for them yet, but if they just kept pushing out PoE1 leagues that would be reliable. Though, every moment 3.26 isn't released is just another moment in which peoples' expectations for 3.26 will simply increase and GGG backs themselves into a corner where they potentially cannot even meet those expectations.

At this point 3.26 better be really damn good.

[sweet blade]

I'm just expecting some form of emotional gaslighting to guilt people to play PoE2 so that PoE1 can live.

[gilded elm]

Honestly the post they made addressing the concerns felt a bit gaslighty to me.

[sweet blade]

I honestly give it a 50/50 chance that there will never be another PoE1 league.

[light forge]

I really felt like campaign pace was fine, endgame needed the tweaks, but its like they devised some master formula and tried to apply it to the entire game without regard for the experience it would create.

"Well the math says this should be good so...ship it!"

[gilded elm]

I had to ask Claude to try and articulate how I felt about the post. Basically:

While not textbook gaslighting, the post may minimize the extent of player concerns by highlighting smaller fixes rather than addressing the broader balance issues causing widespread dissatisfaction.

[sweet blade]

I think GGG needs to learn the MMO/Souls concept of 'pulling'.

You can't have intentional thoughtful combat when you have no control over the combat.

[light forge]

Meanwhile my ChatGPT is like "bro I'm so sorry. I feel bad for gassing you up for this patch. Wanna make some lore for your D&F game to feel better?"

D&D

[sweet blade]

Ugh, LLMs...

[light forge]

And you know what, it helped

[gilded elm]

lmao

[light forge]

Gave me a cool name for my runemaster build: Voltweaver

[gilded elm]

I work in Cloud Computing, specifically in Cloud Native and AI-related stuff, I love LLMs lol

Having access to GH200's to do cool stuff is also a bonus 😛

[sweet blade]

I wonder... Can you ask one of the boys to summarize the design decisions made by the company Grinding Gear Games regarding their game Path of Exile over the past 3 years?

[light forge]

GH200's?

[gilded elm]

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/grace-hopper-superchip/

[sweet blade]

Ah. Well... You and I likely don't see eye to eye regarding them.

[light forge]

900GBS per second?!

Ho Lee

I didn't even know that was possible

[gilded elm]

I like the tech, I like the things people are doing with it. Still a lot more work to be done on language models but things are coming together in a fascinating way IMO.

[gilded elm]

I don't think we actually use NVLink tbh lol

[light forge]

Yeah I've honestly loved messing with ChatGPT

[gilded elm]

I'm also no expert on the specifics of training, tensors, all of that low-level AI stuff.

[sweet blade]

I guess. I am just tired of so many of the claims surrounding them. Maybe it's because I've seen so many similar claims in the past.

[light forge]

I didn't even know "super chips" where a thing till now, I didn't understand most the words in that post. Me just see bug number and go 🤯

[gilded elm]

I do stuff more on a higher level

[fierce moth]

Hhhhh
Make so much sense.

[gilded elm]

I know there's a big anti-AI movement among creatives. I only really agree with their arguments on a copyright level. But I think language models that are trained on fully consented data is fair game IMO.

[light forge]

🧠 💻

^Byteflux irl

[gilded elm]

Though as it stands, I think most of the popular language models today are not actually trained on explicitly consented data, they scraped the internet for the most part.

And I think that is problematic. There's too much legal ambiguity.

Who owns what etc

[sweet blade]

Well I work with dynamic simulation models, and have interfaced with several different ML algorithms.

[gilded elm]

But when the model is trained on explicitly consented data alone, then everyone who owns and contributed that data agreed to license it for this purpose.

[sweet blade]

My concerns are not with legalities.

[gilded elm]

Just not a fan of how wrong they can be or is it something more specific?

[light forge]

I feel like I have lost the plot on this conversation.

[sweet blade]

I specifically reject that they are reasoning as many claim that they do.

The issues with errors is an issue of utility.

[gilded elm]

More like "predicting" as I understand it. But with many models today, you can see their reasoning process.

[sweet blade]

That will either be fixed or not.

[gilded elm]

Like Claude can show you why it gave you the response it did, it can show you the thought processes it goes through.

[twilit mountain]

Yeah my issues are primarily with generative AI because a few pals of mine have seen their art be scraped for its usage and that feels pretty shitty

[sweet blade]

The process isn't reasoning, really. Or, if it is reasoning, all human existence is meaningless.

[gilded elm]

Yeah I think that sucks. I feel for artists who have a gripe because of that. But I definitely don't agree when artists or creatives who think their roles cannot be redefined by AI's making better art. I think creatives will always be necessary, but I disagree with any argument that AI cannot make good art.

Which I often see many creatives making this argument.

[gilded elm]

Well sure, might be a matter of semantics at that point though.

[sweet blade]

I find that hypocritical on the artists' part, considering that they themselves disagree with what constitutes good art.

[gilded elm]

It says the AI is "thinking" but of course it's not really thinking.

I think, therefore I am. And all that haha.

[sweet blade]

Perhaps. If the LLM is reasoning (and not just spoofing reasoning), it is strong evidence for a strict materialistic metaphysic. Which leads DIRECTLY to utter meaningless of everything humanity has ever done.

[sweet blade]

Well, as I disagree with the implications of the statement and generally also the statement itself...

[gilded elm]

Original question was "How does reasoning work in AI models?"

[desert jasper]

A lot of humans also struggle with common sense

[gilded elm]

lmao

[fierce moth]

😅 such a pity... I agree with we back to the first time EA is released

[sweet blade]

Are there any current generation AIs that do not require prompts? That is, create things on their own without any need for an interlocutor?

[gilded elm]

Not that I'm aware of. Models are just problem solvers as far as I'm aware, they still need a problem to solve.

You could build complex systems and tie them together, certainly.

[sweet blade]

Well there is that, I suppose.

[gilded elm]

Most solutions will probably require multiple models to implement.

[sweet blade]

Not really the thrust of my questions, but that does make sense.

[gilded elm]

Like a robot that uses a vision model to process what it's seeing, and a speech model to synthesize a response based on what it processed (based on what it was shown).

[sweet blade]

Ah. Well, in any event, it's way past my bed time, so I will see you all tomorrow for the next round of drinking games and existential dread.

[gilded elm]

There's also a whole thing called MCP that lets you build complex AI-driven applications/systems that have agents capable of taking complex actions, like searching the web, sending emails etc.

G'night!

[sweet blade]

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Did none of these people ever watch Tron?

[gilded elm]

Haha

Yeah things are getting fun in the AI world.

Can't wait for a "Skynet Agent" lmao

[crisp onyx]

i'm in web, so not sure if soft is that much different, but i dont understand this whole sentiment of dev job being hard. if anything its quit privileged job.

[gilded elm]

To be fair, game devs are definitely one of the lower paid dev jobs in the industry. But yeah, no business should be above consumer criticism. Empathizing with a business is just... well, for the lack of a better word: dumb.

[crisp onyx]

i heard they cant hire freely cuz of NZ laws

[gilded elm]

Really? We were talking about something similar earlier. GGG requires anyone who gets hired to relocate to NZ if they live out of country, we were speculating this makes hiring new talent very difficult for them as well.

I imagine not many software engineers want to relocate all the way to NZ for mediocre pay.

Whereas, EHG is either fully or largely remote, they can hire from all over the world and people just work from home. They just lack the money to hire more people at the moment. GGG has the opposite problem, they have the money but nobody to hire lol.

[crisp onyx]

thats ggg classic. always has been

[gilded elm]

Thanks, Claude. My thoughts exactly.

[crisp onyx]

its what i heard. something something, you need to prove to gov that man you are trying to hire cant be hired in NZ so only then you can hire overboard. thats prob where whole relocation thing take root

[crisp onyx]

leading question

in my experience they hallucinate/give bias more when you ask like that.

[gilded elm]

Not quite a hallucination, but more of "this is what can happen" but yes the question is absolutely leading it into a biased response.

It was an explanation, not a "this is always the case"

[crisp onyx]

with how current consumer is we are doomed

[gilded elm]

A decent many countries have this legal requirement as far as I'm aware. Another big one is Canada I think.

[crisp onyx]

no talking poe now, but in general

[gilded elm]

I'm quite sure that GGG doesn't have to be strictly an NZ business, though. There assuredly has to be ways around this legal requirement, as I expect it only applies to NZ businesses.

And I have no idea what NZ's legal policies are regarding remote workers.

But presumably that's another avenue that could be explored, a remote workforce.

[solemn harness]

LLMs hallucinating reminds me of the telephone game: base information gradually distorts into something that sounds believable but is utter nonsense.

[gilded elm]

Right now, it's clearly obvious that GGG has a manpower issue though.

[crisp onyx]

i'm not sure

if we assume huntress animations etc was almost done long ago

its not that much they delivered in this timespan

but also in this condition

if its small well organized team it would have less bugs

[gilded elm]

Right, and they're also completely neglecting PoE1 right now. Everyone in the PoE1 team is working on PoE2, because they're stretched thin. They don't have enough people, or manpower, to work on both at the same time and keep up the pace.

[crisp onyx]

seems to me more its just poorly organized

[abstract karma]

basically

[gilded elm]

It's possible, but I'm less inclined to believe this is the case with GGG. I don't think this level of incompetent resource management is their thing. If they were working on just PoE1 right now, they'd have no problem keeping to a schedule and delivering consistently good (at least not totally bad) leagues every few months as they have been up to Settlers.

This seems very much like they can't hire enough people (possibly due to a hiring bottleneck) to keep up the pace they've set for themselves with both PoE1 and PoE2.

[crisp onyx]

poe1 pipeline is a bit different

its mostly recycle not new things

although kalgur was new

and the amount of work needed to put together poe1 league is little

they said themselves

[gilded elm]

If that were the case, I don't think the PoE1 league would have been this delayed. Settlers came out... last summer? That's not just a small delay.

[crisp onyx]

something like sentinels league is very simple

you can prob put it together in a week

[gilded elm]

And yet, here we are. Still without a PoE1 league, almost a year into Settlers.

[solemn harness]

Doesn't matter how long the time gap was when they had nobody working on it at all, basically indefinitely 🤣

[crisp onyx]

idr which, but it was said chris himselg did 1 league in a few days

[gilded elm]

Right, this is what I mean when I say they are stretched thin.

[crisp onyx]

thats why i believe its poor management

very poor

[gilded elm]

I assume this is largely a problem of "not enough people" rather than a mismanagement of people.

[crisp onyx]

but all speculation ofc

[solemn harness]

If they're stretched thin it's entirely self-imposed. They could have waited another year to release PoE 2 easily.

[gilded elm]

Oh absolutely. No question.

This is a self-inflicted wound.

No matter how you slice it.

[crisp onyx]

i think tencent has to do with it

no way in hell poe2 was in EA state when it was relesed

more like late alpha

[solemn harness]

When they first announced work on (what would eventually become PoE 2) they were predicting a beta in 2020, for the record 😅

[crisp onyx]

and its not like studio was dying so they MUST release it now

[gilded elm]

PoE1 has shown consistent growth league after league. If anything, they should have been growing.

Their financials are on the NZ govt website though, I just haven't taken a good look.

[crisp onyx]

thats why its strange to release poe2 as it was

i want to believe ggg succumb to ppl in the end and make it good game

but its prob a year or 2

[crisp onyx]

i assume if it was bad it would be on reddit already then

[gilded elm]

Yeah, that's a fair assumption.

[solemn harness]

GGG makes tons of money last I checked; they just have difficulties finding people to hire, given the New Zealand requirement.

[gilded elm]

Perhaps they should have a business presence in multiple countries then so they can hire multiple out-of-country teams, as many other businesses do 😛

Get a US office

[solemn harness]

For whatever reason being in their NZ office is essentially a requirement

[gilded elm]

Yeah and we were discussing how this must make hiring extremely difficult for them. Not just because of the NZ law, but also because who tf wants to move to NZ to get paid a mediocre salary?

[solemn harness]

People that really, really like Path of Exile. That's also another kinda-requirement.

[gilded elm]

Game developers are already among the most lowest paid kind of developer.

Relocating your whole life to NZ just for that seems... well, not worth it.

EHG seems to have a really nice thing going for them with their fully or almost fully remote workforce.

[solemn harness]

According to their website EHG is in fact all-remote, no office whatsoever

[gilded elm]

Nice, I bet they have no problem whatsoever finding people to hire. They just don't have the money to really grow the company yet, I assume.

I'm hoping these upcoming seasons in LE are mostly successful, I'd love to see what EHG can do with more resources.

[crisp onyx]

NZ is not the worst, trust me

[narrow token]

I think EHG just has a lot of tech debt holding them back

If they get to sort that out, I imagine the sky's the limit.

[crisp onyx]

poe2 graphics one day and i will never look back

[gilded elm]

I agree I think there's a lot of tech debt holding them back, hopefully they address enough of it to make room for growth. They don't have to solve all of it upfront, of course.

[crisp onyx]

thats wouldnt be smart

cuz tech debt solving is mostly invisible to customer

wheres new things are shiny

[gilded elm]

Accumulating more tech debt is also not smart. At some point you do have to evaluate your situation and start making repayments on that debt before things grow wildly outside of your control. Not saying it has to be something ridiculously drastic like changing your entire game engine, but little things here and there which make room for bigger ideas/features to be realized down the line.

It has to be managed.

[crisp onyx]

i meant address all of it at once

and funny cuz they did upgrade engine xd

[gilded elm]

Oh yeah, that would indeed be dumb hehe

Step by step.

[tawny sand]

ah yeah i know of dastactic

[gilded elm]

Oh? Is he a known guy in the 4X community or somethin?

[tawny sand]

yeah

he does good videos

he's a bit rambly some times for my tastes, but he has helpful vids for sure

[gilded elm]

Haha, seems he has one of the few tutorial videos out there right now so he's gonna be a 4X mega fan at least. I found it informative, for sure.

[tawny sand]

yeah

he has videos for some of the more chunkier games too like Distant Worlds 2 and Shadow Empire

he's kind of the go to for vids on the really deep and chonky 4x games out there

[gilded elm]

Nice, will have to remember to check out his stuff for Distant Worlds 2 then.

[fierce moth]

the cave made in global game jam 2024

[gilded elm]

Really digging the EotFS vibe so far.

[fierce moth]

I still no idea which stuff can appear in a infinite time swirl if the game art director ask me to do this thing

My logic still more on pure artworks than on exact game environment.

[gilded elm]

Damn, mistakes were made. Why do rebels have this much crap parked in a damn farm?

I get that Terra is just Latin for Earth, but damn, "Holy Terra" is so very clearly WH40K influenced haha

[tawny sand]

has this been linked yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosceVs0UY4

[gilded elm]

lmao

[fierce moth]

Lmao

I just done my watching

#❔┃ask-the-community message
This is from this video

That unique strongbox is 10/10 on drama

GGG is good at making different dramas. The other impressive drama I seen is the blacksmith Quin played is forging his weapons in a combat.
Yeah, the character focus on forging even enemy is attacking him hhhhhh

[crisp onyx]

quin vid is absolute cinema

idk who thought that skill would be good idea in poe 2 reality

[fierce moth]

Lmao GGG go insane when they're cooking this patch, for sure

[gilded elm]

10 more days...

[crisp onyx]

i also see ppl complain about loot too

like they reverted that miniscule buff they did prio

[abstract karma]

why the F we have PoE in #❔┃ask-the-community .. Delete, trash it..

Ppl scream about PoE 2 everywhere >.>

[crisp onyx]

chill, convo died by itself

[gilded elm]

New playthrough! Always impressed with how good this game is.

[tawny sand]

what's this?

[gilded elm]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1783280/Ghostlore/

"Retro" looking ARPG made by two brothers, clearly a labor of love.

[tawny sand]

oh i already had it on my wishlist

lol

i guess i just forgot about it sadly

looks nice though

[gilded elm]

If you get it, would recommend waiting for a sale. Price is a bit steep, even though it has an endgame and multiclassing that does make it highly replayable.

And the Glyph system and Powers system are really cool too.

[tawny sand]

oh sick

[gilded elm]

Yeah, like the trigger mod (the "fist") is letting me trigger both Thunderstorm and Fireball now on my basic attacks. Really really cool skill/build system.

[gilded elm]

This is what PoE2's current Steam score looks like when you exclude all of the pre-patch reviews lmao

[crisp onyx]

clearly review bombing

[gilded elm]

Haha

[ember lake]

Ooh, what type of pasta is it?

[fierce moth]

Bucatini

The pasta I have tried which need the most sauces to cook so it's impossible to not happy with enjoying that

I understand why I can't see this type of pasta in Italian restaurants here... Ingredient-consuming and time-consuming

[ember lake]

It might be worth looking into Butter Noodle Sauce - from my understanding it's very simple and can be enjoyed with almost any type of pasta 🙂

[maiden widget]

I remember that ghost lore translation made it hard to gauge what works how and I kinda fell off due to that

[hollow coral]

The new PoE2 patch is the only patch in history where the players look forward to going back to work on Monday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nosceVs0UY4&t=135s

[hollow coral]

Some game developers don't listen to reason, you have to send their game to Steam's purgatory so the new sales plummet and they're forced to fix stuff

[vagrant topaz]

Oh I love this one

20k Gold for a scroll

[hollow coral]

I wonder how long "the vision" will last in the face of huge community backlash, don't they understand that players want to have fun?

Someone said they should just port PoE2 WASD and graphics to PoE1 and spend 5 more years working PoE2 behind closed doors

[sweet blade]

Best Italian dish I ever had was Bucatini alla Gricio from a small cafe-style restaurant in Rome. So simple and so very good.

And morning all. 🙂

[desert jasper]

Gm

[sweet blade]

THanks... back to the old grind. 🙂

[crisp onyx]

'review bombs' are just excuse 95% of the time

if game is not free, to leave review you need to buy it first, that means your review is valid

even if it just 'game is trash'

[crisp onyx]

wait for +5ms patch and players will forgive everything

[hollow coral]

Review bombs don't come out of nowhere, sometimes it's for stupid reasons, but I'd say it's warranted more often than not

[crisp onyx]

review bombs are not a thing

the only thing i would call review bomb its when ppl who did not try the game leave reviews

[hollow coral]

I'm confused

[crisp onyx]

\s

[indigo shadow]

When in rome, do what the roman does

[crisp onyx]

burn the rome?

[indigo shadow]

did they really screw up the item drops? 😂

[sweet blade]

IMO, a 'review bomb' is when bad reviews are artificially created.

[indigo shadow]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_in_Rome,_do_as_the_Romans_do

[hollow coral]

The ultimate centrist take, say two opposite things - pretend it's intentional when caught

[crisp onyx]

idk but i see sizeable amount of comments about it

[crisp onyx]

if i tell this server to go and leave review on game N it will be review bomb too

[hollow coral]

Implying PoE2 drops weren't screwed to begin with

[indigo shadow]

I had to play POE 1 again just for drops

[sweet blade]

That would fall under what I said, would it not?

[crisp onyx]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero

[indigo shadow]

I know about that

[crisp onyx]

we can call it that ye

[indigo shadow]

https://tenor.com/hHwaAm6PAxK.gif

don't tell me I can't post gif here? 😂

[abstract karma]

Vision or not i'm more suprised that ppl which defend current approach to game dont mind this horrible design:

1. Gambling crafting - that was and is most stupid thing i've ever seen in any RPG.. (not arpg just RPG..)

• even if there is gamba drop or something, there should be way to increase power of your items

2. Act being too long and boring VS enemies remains same and stronger ever next update..

• In online ARPG where game starts basically by "ENDGAME" this is nonsense..
  Act are and always were how to say "tutorial part for new players to get trough system, to learn how to play, understand elemnts, slower or some decent progression how to improve your character"

3. Locked fun game behind ENDGAME

• also never understood, if you want new update and function hide behind endgame then why do f. you making so slow "main story" of the game..
  Doesn't make sensce

[crisp onyx]

we can post images not sure about gifs

[hollow coral]

Maybe you misbehaved?

[crisp onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/fall-of-the-roman-empire-mouse-rat-rockos-modern-life-fire-gif-6326624388094566006

[indigo shadow]

I'm more into isometric souls like called Achilles Legends Untold

[crisp onyx]

doesn work for me either

[indigo shadow]

I swear to lord Community have #other-games or I'm missing something

[abstract karma]

technically its part of OFF-TOPIC but also missing this channel just for other games

[hollow coral]

They do be trying to make isometric Elden Ring

[crisp onyx]

its not elden ring though

[abstract karma]

nah.. Soul like game has simple approach - as you go you are stronger and enemy is stronger..
Your items and gear and possible build divedes more as you progress the game..

PoE 2 doesn't offer anything from that

[crisp onyx]

flex rights by nolifers

ppl defended worse stuff

[hollow coral]

Yea, but you'll see the wanna-be Elden Ring in PoE2 if you squint your eyes hard enough, it just doesn't work mechanically

[crisp onyx]

it can

no rest for the wicked kinda does it

[abstract karma]

funny thing is that nolifers are these which hate current state of the game while these who are newcomers or has some ... on gambling defend it

[hollow coral]

You're not fighting 10-20 sprinting mobs in Elden Ring over 2 souls

[crisp onyx]

you might be right, but i see a lot of comments how spending X amount of hours are hard and if you cant you are noob and filtered

[abstract karma]

but they keep it simple.. as Izometrict soul-game.. A few enemies with possible drops and still way to improve your character..
But your created builds deals dmg to enemies

number of enemis also remains on lvl of Souls game

[crisp onyx]

its closest in arpg you can get to soulslike

more time spent killing 1 enemy should result in more loot

and you cant swarm either

poe 2 takes loot from poe 1

mosnters from poe 1

makes it souls* and says we are done

just bad design

[abstract karma]

techncially yes but PoE 2 current design doesn't do that at all..

It remains all zoom zoom of PoE 1 while slowing character to impossible levels.

yes it's and that's problem which some normal ppl try it point out in various forums while these defenders saying "nah it's ok"

Like WTF

[crisp onyx]

i dont mind

let market speak

if they want this good for them

luckily for me its not the only game on the market

this behavior kinda expectable
poe 1 fanbase was fanboyish too

granted it was better game but still

[hollow coral]

It feels like they're trying to mix Elden Ring and PoE1, but instead of having the systems play off each other, they have the systems working against each other - you're slow, monsters are fast; equipment you have is important, it doesn't drop; there's bespoke combo mechanics (block, parry), they're annoying to use and it's more fun to use something else

[gilded elm]

My god that's hilarious

[hollow coral]

Bro, that was my end of act 2 drop reward in 0.1

2 trash rares and an identify scroll after 30 minutes of rolling around

[crisp onyx]

also yes

in elden ring i can kill first horse guy naked with a club

you cant kill first boss naked in poe

[gilded elm]

Parry feels sooo bad right now on Huntress lol

Or just I mean, parry feels bad. Forget Huntress

[crisp onyx]

cant parry mobs cuz there is a lot of them

cant parry bosses cuz they use slams

[gilded elm]

Also the parry "cone" is just really bad whatever it is.

What looked like it should've parried, often doesn't.

[crisp onyx]

thats fixable problem at least

[gilded elm]

Not the parry timing window, but like that actual contact area.

Yeah true, they could tweak that fairly easily.

Not that there is a timing window... I don't think. Pretty sure parry just always works as long as the hit can be parried and it hits the correct contact area.

[hollow coral]

Parry in PoE2 is kinda hilarious

[sonic glacier]

so has anyone conspiracy theorized that GGG made the update so bad, so that they could "fix" it on the 17th?

[hollow coral]

What am I? A chameleon with eyes pointing at different directions so I can track the 20 monsters to parry?

[desert jasper]

Wait, you can't do that? smh

[hollow coral]

No, I look more like this

👁️ 👄 👁️

than this

[desert jasper]

Horrifying, truly

[hollow coral]

🦎

[gilded elm]

Beautiful, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[hollow coral]

[desert jasper]

You don't even have a nose

[hollow coral]

Thanks
😳
👉 👈

[gilded elm]

Whoa now, they might be insecure about that man 😦

[hollow coral]

To keep it out of other people business 😊

👁️ 👃 👁️
👉 👄 👈

Better?

[desert jasper]

What a handsome face

[hollow coral]

Yea, mi mum also says so

😳
👉 👈

[gilded elm]

Ah, early game progression. Feels good, unlike PoE2 lol

[sweet blade]

Yeah, GGG's strategy is becoming increasingly clear.

[lost prairie]

Is it?

Can you tell me what it is then, because I don't know

[gilded elm]

Their strategy is basically, "this is the game, this is what we intended"

Or so it seems.

[sweet blade]

I think the chances that GGG puts out a major buff patch that solves all the problems on the 15th or 16th is about 90% at this point.

This seems like the engagement corollary to undercutting competitor prices to drive them out of the market.

[gilded elm]

Which, IMO might even be going against their own vision. They realize things are getting serious and they are at risk of effectively losing half, if not more of the PoE2 playerbase.

I don't really think this is a strategy specifically to drive competition out of the market.

But I do think they will capitulate eventually. At least make much bigger concessions.

[sweet blade]

Sure. Very possibly. They sacrificed their vision for PoE1 to gain market hegemony... I see no reason to believe that they couldn't do it again.

[gilded elm]

GGG is in a very advantageous position of being the market leader, it's definitely wild that they somehow are on the verge of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, so to speak lol.

[sweet blade]

Are they, though?

[gilded elm]

Who can really say, maybe it is a strategy? The patch notes did come much later, after EHG had announced the date being pushed back for the season, so it very well could be a strategy on GGG's part to kill the competition in a very ruthless and almost malicious way.

I guess we'll see what comes down the pipeline leading up to LE's season launch.

[sweet blade]

I think the next sign is if the expected major buff patch that they release is very articulated or not.

[gilded elm]

Safe to say though, if they only stick to these minor changes like we saw in the "What We're Working On" announcement, it definitely wasn't any kind of clever strategy, it was genuine incompetence (or visionary stubbornness).

Now I'm really curious hehe

[sweet blade]

Why not both?

[gilded elm]

Incompetence and stubbornness? lol

Oh boy, I mean yeah it could be.

[sweet blade]

Yeah..

I think something we can both agree on is that something is up

[gilded elm]

Definitely, I just really hope it isn't anti-competitive maliciousness as you've speculated. Really, really hope that's not the case.

[sweet blade]

Same. All because I think something is happening doesn't mean that I like it or want it to happen.

[hollow coral]

The only competition that GGG is gonna kill is going to be PoE1

[gilded elm]

If they come out with a very detailed plan for a patch that's basically all buffs and fixing everything everyone is complaining about... I would be more worried than relieved, precisely because it reinforces the idea that this was all just a strategy all along.

[hollow coral]

There's not gonna be a revert patch in the 0.2

They will follow "the vision" until it's not sustainable and then they'll waffle back to cater to the audience and make the game fun

[gilded elm]

Not a revert patch, but the "real" patch they planned on releasing all along.

[hollow coral]

There's always this one guy in charge in these situations that refuses to listen to reason and pushes the "One more feature and they will understand the vision! Trust!"

[sweet blade]

This is what I meant by articulated.

[hollow coral]

This is the real patch, 0.2 is what 0.2 was supposed to be

They're not hiding the good stuff

[gilded elm]

That you know of. We're speculating, and right now admittedly we're one foot into tinfoil hat territory.

[hollow coral]

They're not gonna spend man hours on jebaiting the audience into a masterful subversion gambit

It costs millions a year to run a studio that size

[gilded elm]

Yeah, your conclusion is the most obvious, sane, rational and desirable one.

I want to believe it's actually just "the vision."

[hollow coral]

The vision is the game it's supposed to be

Tarkov is a recent example of this recent development pattern - they make the game less fun to have the game more "realistic", players drop off, now they're begging for player suggestions to make the game more fun

[gilded elm]

Yeah, incompetence is at least better than malice lol

Maybe not by much, dunno

[sweet blade]

Mm, by itself, yes. At some point, incompetence becomes malice.

[hollow coral]

When the vision has your finance and planning department sounding alarms

[gilded elm]

What's that from?

[hollow coral]

Tarkov

It's the head developer after they launched a site where players can post suggestions to make game better

[gilded elm]

Maybe I'm dumb, but what exactly is being censored there? lol

[hollow coral]

After many years of not listening to players and just following the vision

[crisp onyx]

we hear you, here +1 ex per act in campaign

[hollow coral]

A swear, he tells the guy to fudge off

[crisp onyx]

or is it too generous?

[gilded elm]

lmao

[hollow coral]

It was realism > realism > realism > realism for Tarkov, game becoming progressively less and less fun

[gilded elm]

Ah, the classic trap.

When will devs learn that realism != immersion

[hollow coral]

Then they posted tax report with negative profit and released $250 version of the game

Then they started asking for tips to get players back

[gilded elm]

Many, if not most people, play games to escape reality.

[sweet blade]

Purchasing runes would be a nice improvement along those lines

[hollow coral]

Yeah, that's what the community has been telling Tarkov devs since forever

The realism is nice and all, but there has to be a game in there first and foremost

[sweet blade]

You forgot the whole 'on average' on that, BTW, which neatly evades the rate issue.

[hollow coral]

I should apply for a top CEO in a videogame company

The Vision = Players have fun

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

How come we never thought of that?!?!?!?!?

Jonathan, move over

[crisp onyx]

never

its one of the 2 easiest coins to flip

realism and graphics

which is also realism

[fierce moth]

😭💔 It's me

The life is sucks so I want to escape

[gilded elm]

I think it's a bit ironic that generally private companies are associated with being more consumer friendly because they aren't beholden to shareholders in the same way that a public company is, however, GGG is showing us how the opposite extreme is just as bad lmao.

[hollow coral]

GGG is not longer a private owned company

[gilded elm]

They still are. They are not a publically traded company.

They have private ownership.

[hollow coral]

They're Tencent sub

[gilded elm]

They're still private.

[hollow coral]

They're beholden to them and their board

I think the private you meant was independent

[gilded elm]

But not beholden to public shareholders.

It's a whole different ballpark.

[crisp onyx]

they are owned by tencent

[hollow coral]

Tencent is publicly traded

[crisp onyx]

they are not publicly tradable though

[gilded elm]

Private and Public literally just refers to whether a company is publicly traded.

[crisp onyx]

then its not

but ownership is not theirs

[hollow coral]

Nvm

[crisp onyx]

its irrelevant anyway

doubt its tencent said to them to make game bad

[gilded elm]

It empowers companies to make decisions independent of the general mandate that is infinite growth in a publicly traded company. They have no legal obligation to even try to be profitable.

[crisp onyx]

i think ggg does have that obligation

[gilded elm]

GGG has been known time and again to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to chasing profits. They might have obligations to Tencent, but those are not the same as the legal obligations of a publicly traded company to at least try to be profitable.

[crisp onyx]

idk details of their contract but they are >50% sold to tencent

maybe its as long as they dont go in red tencent doesnt pull

[gilded elm]

Tencent selling their shares because GGG isn't profitable is not the same as the government prosecuting you for gross negligence of your commitment to your public shareholders.

[hollow coral]

GGG has legal obligations to Tencent, imagine if you bought a company, asked it to do something it said no, GGG will do whatever Tencent says, regardless if they like it or not

The company isn't doing what you want, replace the CEO, see if it works

Remember Chris?

[gilded elm]

A totally different thing again, from a public company, which actually faces legal repercussions for negligence, not a board just replacing your CEO.

[hollow coral]

Nvm

[crisp onyx]

why would they sell shares if they own more than 50%?

[twilit mountain]

https://youtu.be/n_nZebpFg1I

[gilded elm]

Well that's just an example of what they could do in response. They could, presumably, also just replace the CEO. But GGG ain't facing legal consequences for deliberately being bad at making money, as they might (depending on scrutiny and circumstances) if they were a publicly traded entity.

[twilit mountain]

Y'all Tencent owns 100% of GGG shares now

They'd owned the vast, vast majority of them as well for years. It was something like 97% ownership 4 years ago

[gilded elm]

In any case, I don't really sense Tencent is behind any of this. That's just me totally guessing though, for sure.

Tencent owns a stake, even a majority stake, in lots of western game studios as far as I'm aware and the popular consensus has been that they've been hands-off in their western investments (as opposed to being very hands-on in the Chinese versions of those western games).

[sweet blade]

Wow, Mathil expressing concern... that's new.

[gilded elm]

Mathil is just whiny, no-skill PoE1 player, obviously! That's what it is.

[desert jasper]

First time I see mathil expressing concern about poe stuff

[sweet blade]

Yeah, he's generally very chill.

[crisp onyx]

honeymoon is over?

[sweet blade]

Heh.

[gilded elm]

Saw a few people discounting streamers in the PoE Discord as if they have no impact on the popularity of the game at all.

As if GGG isn't throwing tons of money at them to promote the game.

[sweet blade]

I'd love to have whatever they're on... 😉

[gilded elm]

Same, crazy levels of delusion.

[sweet blade]

I wish streamers DIDN'T have an impact, but I have to admit that they do.

[gilded elm]

Yeah, it would be better if more people would actually be more willing to experience something for themselves rather than blindly trusting a content creator. But clearly these charismatic personalities very much have massive followings and marketing capacity.

[sweet blade]

Enh, I wouldn't mind 'influencers' so much if they (as a class) had integrity. Most of them give off the impression that all you need to do is throw enough money at them and they'll say what you want them to say.

[uncut tiger]

Is it even "giving off an impression" if it's just true?

[gilded elm]

I actually don't really get that vibe from most PoE streamers at all, to be fair.

Though that may be more of the case outside of PoE.

[sweet blade]

I guess my point is that it's hard to know for sure.

[sweet blade]

I make it over 50%, personally.

[gilded elm]

In my experience with the streamers I've watched in PoE who do also do variety sponsorships, they'll say when the game is shit.

[sweet blade]

I guess... I think too many PoE streamers (that I know of, at least) do only PoE, which means that they can't bite the hand that indirectly feeds them. Especially considering the PoE fan base.

[crisp onyx]

you simply dont have time to check out everything yourself

thats where streamers is a good thing

[crisp onyx]

dont listen what they say, watch what they play

[gilded elm]

That's fair, some, perhaps most streamers are kind of "one trick ponies" so to speak, they only have that one hand feeding them and they are not big enough to branch out into sponsorships.

[crisp onyx]

when its so shit you simply cant deny, and even then they choose safe words as much as they can

[sweet blade]

Yeeeah....

[gilded elm]

Integrity-wise, the streamers primarily known for Diablo might even have more integrity when it comes to expressing their opinions on PoE.

Namely someone like Raxx

[sweet blade]

Enh, don't follow them really so... don't follow streamers much at all, really.

[gilded elm]

It has been nice to see the clips of PoE streamers having some "brutally honest" moments about the state of the game right now though. The comic relief has been both appreciated and depressing.

I see what you mean, it's in my feed now lol

I'm glad he's of the same mind here. The post didn't alleviate concerns.

It just made me more concerned.

[sweet blade]

Yeeeep. Haven't watched it, because I just can't get that deep into this.

[crisp onyx]

after that brutally honest moment they went and made another 'poe2 best amazon guide'

[gilded elm]

Haha, at least the moment is on record, it's there, it happened. Can't blame them for getting back on the grind though lol.

By grind, I mean making money.

[sweet blade]

Yeah... 'this isn't good... anyway, here's a build that suggests you should also play it'.

[maiden widget]

its interesting that even mathil seems a bit defalted he's normally the positive guy

[sweet blade]

The 'most positive guy who also seems to give honest opinions', anyway.

He has nothing on say Tri.

[gilded elm]

Talkative "I'm Shocked People Aren't Having Fun" Tri

[sweet blade]

I wonder if GGG pulls a 'learn from 3.15 lesson' from this. It'd crush them for 0.3, but they may be that short on institutional wisdom to try it.

[sweet blade]

Rather, yes. He's saying the 'who do you believe, me or your lying dopamine receptor' stuff so that GGG doesn't have to... 😉

[maiden widget]

he has a weird hp bar in the vid on bosses with the different sections, is that a setting 🤔

[gilded elm]

Yeah, please tell me how to get dopamine in the current state of the game. Tell me more about how my subjective feelings about my experiences are wrong. Haha

[crisp onyx]

kalandra was after 3.15 i doubt their ability to learn

[sweet blade]

Is he using Reveal Weakness?

[crisp onyx]

this i also dont get, whats so bad about pestering my dopamine receptors?

isnt it what games are for?

[maiden widget]

idk looks like this

[sweet blade]

What I mean by this is that 3.15 had a lot of announced nerfs, and the backlash was severe. So, the next time they did big nerfs (AN aside), there was a massive unannounced nerf to loot drops. Many people speculate (myself included) that GGG thought that trying to hide it was better than being open about it. When they were called on it, they first said that nothing was happening, and then said 'oops we forgot to put it in patch notes'.

[sweet blade]

Yeah, that's the Reveal Weakness mechanic of the Amazon.

[maiden widget]

ah perfect ty

[sweet blade]

You didn't get the patented GGG update for them. 😉

[crisp onyx]

iirc it was not the first time they pulled ninja

[sweet blade]

It was by far the most blatant and affected the most core system.

I'm saying that I'm wondering if GGG (once again) learns the wrong lesson from this.

The best way of explaining 0.2 is that GGG thought that the response to 0.1 (a lot of money) meant that players liked 0.1 for the same things that GGG liked them, and so doubled down on those aspects for 0.2. Once again showing that GGG is very bad at overcoming confirmation bias in analysis. (And I'm showing that issue myself as my confirmation bias on this confirmation bias topic is also very high. =D)

[crisp onyx]

how can you think that?

0.1 was blind buy for a lot of ppl

[sweet blade]

Experience? 😉

The most consistent position of GGG with regard to analyzing data has been to confirm their own position.

[gilded elm]

How to gaslight without technically gaslighting, a master class on how to tell people they're wrong without actually telling them they're wrong.

[sweet blade]

This is a case in point.

[crisp onyx]

more like success striked in the head

[maiden widget]

it still funny that they try that - yet you can spend half an hour finding the dumb bog witch because not even going through the outside layer guarantees finding her

[crisp onyx]

especially after whole d4 fiasco

[sweet blade]

'Players are saying that our areas are too large. Well, our areas are too large, so it has to be something else... oh, they just need more dps probably.'

This is assuming good intentions on the part of GGG.

[crisp onyx]

ppl who are on forums are minority

and majority will hapily eat it

[maiden widget]

funniest shit is that the zones are even worse if you oneshot shit and just walk through empty spaces

[gilded elm]

This comes off very condescending to me personally. That's how I received it.

[sweet blade]

It's very easy to believe that GGG isn't willing to rework large area sizes because it's a huge overall of their procedural generation system. But rather than admit that, they make it sound like it's the players' fault.

[crisp onyx]

while dps and ms will alleviate it

even with poe 1 standarts maps are too big

[sweet blade]

At the cost of The Vision?!?

Heresy!

[crisp onyx]

its like that cemetary map

i forgor name

grave trough or something

[candid sage]

i was actually angry when i saw this

[maiden widget]

they are also missing the little pointers we got in poe1

like the stones pointing where kuduku is in ledge

[sweet blade]

Anyone who didn't realize that the recent map layouts added to PoE1 were clearly made from PoE2, and was a sign of the size of map zones in PoE2, wasn't paying attention.

[maiden widget]

lots of small shit that guides you even if you dont realize it

[sweet blade]

Corpses in the Marketplace!

[crisp onyx]

but that map not even as bad as poe 2 maps

[gilded elm]

Yeah I don't know who thought it was a good idea to include this phrasing.

[maiden widget]

yup, there's tons of it and it's so good

[fierce moth]

if there are any outliers that players are spending too long in to see if any changes to area size need to happen.

if any changes to area size need to happen.

[sweet blade]

Sure, but showed the directional challenge.

[crisp onyx]

they angered 2 nerds and pleased masses

[candid sage]

idk if i am just spoiled with EHG but this sounded so tone deaf

[crisp onyx]

win for them

[gilded elm]

I don't think you are spoiled. I think this absolutely was a tone deaf response too.

[crisp onyx]

yes

[sweet blade]

This is nothing new for GGG.

[crisp onyx]

yes you are spoiled

i dont know any other companies that spoil as much