💬┃general

[versed bone]

But in entertainment that's subjective. Just because something sells well doesn't mean it's objectively good. Source: Pokemon is the most successful media franchise of all time.

[opaque furnace]

exactly what im talking about

pokemon can do any shit they want

will sell like hot cakes

[inner finch]

Comparison is the thief of joy. Nobody will forbid you from enjoying multiple ARPGs at the same time

[opaque furnace]

u gotta be kinda unemployed to do that, i work from home like 2 hours a day and i struggle lol

[inner finch]

Working 60 hours a week i still find time to play 5 different ARPGs depending on their content updates

[opaque furnace]

60? on a hard week i barely scratch 10, jeez no ty

[inner finch]

I dont have the luxury of working 2 hours a day, no

[tropic nebula]

im assuming that EVERYONE who is really upset about the announcement(s) is erked cause they feel slighted in some way.

at some point they had a 'vision' of how it would go for them. Some people, are more sensitive to light than others when their blindfold is removed.

[night marten]

nono. tribalism or death

[versed bone]

POE2 GOAT GTFO /sarcasm

Aren't computers and games just cool?

[opaque furnace]

u will get there, no one deserves to work that much

[lost tree]

I think that's the thing everyone's upset about. LE has not been profitable. Just selling MTX. Which is a shame. I've bought everything available minus all of the skills.. but all of the supporter packs. And would continue to do so. But dating part of the play experience behind DLC doesn't feel good, especially with the way ehg had always been vocally against that kind of monetization. Unfortunately the reality we have is that they need money to keep going and paying salaries and presumably their parent company.

[tropic nebula]

These people really just want a place to vent, that can hear them. Sometimes they can word it in a way that is good, and sometimes they suck. At the end of the day, play the hand youre given and either fold, or play.

[inner finch]

To me, games are like different paintings or music albums. I get to enjoy their uniqueness on its own. And yes, that includes the much piled on, worst combat of all time game Last Epoch

[tropic nebula]

i agree with you.

[versed bone]

See, I hate Grim Dawn's combat.

Not taking away from how much people love that game.

[opaque furnace]

well, people called those "doomers" but everybody was saying since day 1, they will rush to adquire back that 100m

[inner finch]

That last part was of course sarcastic, flying through zones with a Paladin or a Falconer or a Lich is tons of fun

[versed bone]

I've tried playing it 5 times. I cannot.

[tropic nebula]

I've been around the game a long time. I called some shots, and so far im not missing any of them

[opaque furnace]

specially krafton history

[tropic nebula]

but i've been in the industry a long time too. This wasnt blind guessing.

[opaque furnace]

and literally NOTHING that doomers said was proved wrong, since day 1, it just got reforced lol

[inner finch]

Nobody here likes Krafton, and nobody expects them to be pure of heart, but many are a little quick to give 3 strikes before any ball was thrown from EHG

[opaque furnace]

they been bought for quite some time already

and just bad news after that

they are well beyond 3 strikes

[inner finch]

To me, the news will turn bad only after anyone can properly confirm the presented mechanics, which weren't really presented, hurt the experience

So no, the ball still isnt being thrown

[tropic nebula]

i consider anything before 1.0 non existent. Their faults in beta dont count

[opaque furnace]

the fact that we will have paid classes before they finish the campaign its just peak rofl

[inner finch]

Did anyone confirm to you the campaign won't be finished during the Season 4-5 era?

These are the exact mountains of speculations ive been seeing

[opaque furnace]

no, but they confirmed we will have paid classes XD

[inner finch]

They confirmed there will be a mechanic called Paradox class that will be paid, that's all we know

I don't know if its the youtubers and twitch streamers who teach the community to be so sensationalistic about anything

[tropic nebula]

they have 96 million to make up for. they have to make money somewhere.

[opaque furnace]

dont forget, this part of the road map

My favorite part is the *subject to change.

For season 4 and 5.

The seasons existing is subject to change.

[lost tree]

I believe mike has said they didn't expect the campaign to be finished before ps launch. But that the console launch would include the next part of the campaign. Or at least that was the goal

[inner finch]

They will yes, since the post itself mentions that there might be a longer or a shorter period of time until Orobyss lands

[tropic nebula]

hot take - Game should still be in beta. Ran outta money, had to launch live.

[opaque furnace]

100% this

[lost tree]

If it's shorter I'll eat my hat

[opaque furnace]

s3 had so many glaring bugs that was insane

a lot of skills and passives barely function

[inner finch]

S3 was buggy, yes

[willow sentinel]

More than other seasons ?

[pulsar geyser]

and the S3 mechanic wasnt that great tbh either

[opaque furnace]

somehow yes

[inner finch]

S3 is probably the buggiest season launch

[opaque furnace]

and the mechanic was terrible

thats the weirdest thing, instead of improving, just got worse, eh

[pulsar geyser]

fastest season i quit :/ loved season 1 and 2

[tropic nebula]

idk about you, but i think every season had REALLY bad bugs. But i could be bias

[opaque furnace]

all of them did

but s3 was special

[inner finch]

S3's bugs were particularly problematic because they punished players the most

[opaque furnace]

^

[inner finch]

with disappearing items

and dysfunctional rewards

[lost tree]

Bugs in live service always happens.. It's how they get delt with and how quickly that matters

[inner finch]

Some community members were quick to point the finger at the cancelled insider program

[opaque furnace]

sure they always happen but on this scale?

literally never see

[inner finch]

which had a few dozen experienced players testing the game and debugging it, but also gaining endgame knowledge

[tropic nebula]

I WOULD NEVER SAY CANCELLING CT WAS THE REASON

EVER

never ever

(maybe)

[lost tree]

Oh yes... The potential for that and worse is always present in live service

[stoic frigate]

If anything that program uh, showed that EHG wasn't really taking a lot of tester feedback to heart

[tropic nebula]

You mean a dedicated group of players who had the most time in the game, didnt have a good reason/knowldege of the game and how to fix it?

wut?!

[stoic frigate]

What?

[tropic nebula]

its sarcasm, hard to convey

[stoic frigate]

I'm just pointing out that things like Falconer being beyond busted on release, or the extreme friction on launch MG, or the staggering power differences in skills had been brought up and given to EHG for months via testers and they still released the way they did

[tropic nebula]

HA! You shoulda seen it before

lol

[stoic frigate]

Mate

I've been in this community for nearly 6 years

[tropic nebula]

oh i didnt know you were ct too

mate

[zinc blaze]

gotta hit a message with ||/s|| to make sure it gets across in text

[magic vector]

Ct was a joke to begin with, its only purpose was for ppl to get ahead with endgame knowledge and few others to find exploitable bugs..

[pearl orbit]

thats why they deprioritized it

i think

[magic vector]

You mean, ended it

[pearl orbit]

its off?

[magic vector]

It must be

[rancid pulsar]

I thought it was like, gone gone

[honest belfry]

no. it's still going. There are several CTs that hang out in this chat pretty regularly.

[rancid pulsar]

TIL

[pearl orbit]

thats what I thought

I thought it was just tiny

not dead

[magic vector]

Yes the 3 ppl in ct seem very engaged with their role

[honest belfry]

It was downsized, but not shut down or deprioritized

[pearl orbit]

i think not letting CCs in CT is a good call tho

[zinc blaze]

yea

[elfin wharf]

good morning beautiful people

[tropic nebula]

ya, but we also has a major reason for the game to be in its tip top shape. two sided sword

but i will agree, its was abused beyond imagination

and now other ccs just offline that stuff... rip

[magic vector]

At least they took ct feedback and did something with it

[lost ember]

I droped from the game on S3 because of bugs, was trying to play nova hammers for the first time and found so many bugs that i couldn't progress the hammer would often not hit the enemies, and not hit at all small enemies or enemies on the tall grass from the new maps. As I wanted to play a throwing build for the first time I tried to change to shield throw, and encountered the same problem of not hitting enemies on tall grass. And on top of that I did not found the season mechanic entertaining and there was barely any change to unused skills so I droped the game.

[zinc blaze]

👋

[elfin wharf]

@zinc blaze heyyyyy

now i am sad your profile told me to send you a dm but its now telling me i cant

boooooo

[lost ember]

Just out of curiosity, is those bugs fixed ? The one where you cant hit small enemies like the tiny dinosaurs with throwing skills like hammers, or the bug where you cannot hit enemies in tall grass with throwing skills ?

[elfin wharf]

iwanted to know what it was about

[honest belfry]

If I am remembering correctly, yes. Let me double check some patch notes for you, but I'm pretty sure it was.

[lost ember]

thanks

[elfin wharf]

do you think if I pray hard enough i will get red ring lol i have the worst luck with red ring this season

[zinc blaze]

[honest belfry]

ok I did some digging. (Sorry it took a while) I won't say it's fixed yet because it hasn't been implemented, but I do see that the team either is or was working on it because we have the bug reports. There's some info listed in them I won't get into, but what I found tells me the team knows and will be releasing a fix.

[lost ember]

Thanks, good to know

[honest belfry]

Anytime! Happy to help

[opaque furnace]

agreed, s3 is prob one of the lowest points of the game that i can remember

[outer hearth]

why not just make actual good mtx and non buggy season? now the reputation is cooked gg

[obtuse bay]

jello hello 👋

[autumn tinsel]

I see chat has slowed down since announcing paid classes

[obtuse bay]

there are not many things to talk about

still waiting for s4 and more info ❤️

[polar inlet]

i'd rather have the free dlc over a free class, but i also only tend to be a Primalist anyway

i tried to play a sorcerer once, but spent all my time marrying off my kids and trying to control king's landing

[waxen sparrow]

I am not a doom sayer like the rest of riffraffs so I just hope the new paid class is something we can pick 2 existing class and mix it together just like on grimdawn

[polar inlet]

i would have to buy it then

something poetic about summoning dinosaurs and then dropping meteors

[south moat]

Dropping dinosaurs from the sky

[polar inlet]

honestly since it's called paradox, it would make sense if it maybe let us mix 2 masteries, since the explanation in game was based on combining timelines or something like that

and a beastmaster druid would let me make one amazing wasp boi

to balance it with the existing classes, maybe we get the full passive tree of both masteries but don't get their mastery exclusive skills

[waxen sparrow]

Paladin with Eq looks fun NGL

Or you play scorpion with aura of decay for more dmg

[wooden herald]

Any word on the new class I gotta pay for? Or new league mechanics?

I hope it's something that spawns a billion mobs

Instead of one juiced omega enemy.

Thoughts?

[main frigate]

No thoughts, EHG spoil nothing.

[carmine smelt]

ngl dual class like grim dawn would be pretty cool

[main frigate]

I have no idea how to understand "paradox class" this idea

[obtuse bay]

mysterious class 😂

[main frigate]

Quite mysterious indeed

[tropic nebula]

if we take the class as a definition: a situation, person, or thing that combines contradictory features or qualities

melee bow, ranged swords, igniting ice, freezing flames

moxx does like melee spell stuff

take the krafton model (considering their massive investment and promise to AI) put in all the classes of the game, and tell AI to give you something that would be paradoxical. You might at least give you the methodology of how the class could be designed.

[main frigate]

I don't think Krafton's AI model will tell EHG how to design paradox class... Their models aren't design for that, what AI can help is poor when you doesn't have your ideas.

AI tools can polish your ideas better but they can't give you ideas.

[balmy ibex]

Sounds like they took the Skill Sigil idea out of the roadmap and reworked it into something we pay for tbh

[silver flame]

When fix fangs of the berserker belt ??? Played, got it, it was broken and doesn’t work, haven’t played since

Someone assign the AI to fix the code for it

[balmy ibex]

Honestly the whole roadmap was pretty deflating, I used to stream the game and between the addition of paid classes and the parent company's bragging about shoving AI into everything I think I'll probably just peace out

[stable forum]

This is a game that involves time travel, however I don't know a lick about the lore to know if there could be paradoxes applied to classes or masteries based on all the time shenanigans

[polar inlet]

when we select our mastery we take all of the experience of our different selves and absorb it, so there is a good place there to cause a paradox since we can originally only choose 1

[stable forum]

hey, that's some good thinking!

[polar inlet]

great i already wasted my 1 good idea for 2026 😛

[old eagle]

paid class or not dont matter imo, when they reveal what it is if it interests me ill buy it if not oh well not forced but all the crying is insane

[main frigate]

p2w

It's why are they crying

Plus some of them believe Judd turn on his words

[obtuse bay]

it's more like pay to play, not pay to win

[brittle aurora]

paid class is like stuff from 2016 mmorpg server

or a roblox

[main frigate]

Too early to judge something because zero details we know. They're just concept. I need to know more details

[obtuse bay]

I wonder If new dlc will be later free

[main frigate]

Maybe

[karmic prairie]

realistically it will be pay to test bugs

🙂

[obtuse bay]

I hope not 😭

we don't even know new dlc and season date

they can use their time to make things better and they must do

[karmic prairie]

last season was what august?

we are back on 6 months per season schedule

[main quiver]

Unless it comes out in January you are 100% right

And I doubt it will xD

[karmic prairie]

i wonder how many people even will play that season, i played last season 3-4 days offline and a lot of friends skipped it and not gonna return for next one after all the latest news

[obtuse bay]

this is why new dlc and season are important

when new content comes in, more people play the game

last epoch had 80k people on first week of season 3

[main frigate]

we have similar conclusions lol

Mine is pay to playtest

[obtuse bay]

we can also watch videos and pay later

so you can choose If you want to pay it or not

I am kinda optimist for ehg because I feel like- they don't have a choice even they have money now

they need to make the game successful

or profitable

success and monetization balance is very difficult though

[main frigate]

I think I'd better to not know EHG plan to release "paradox class" without any special details. If I know, I will ask details all the time.

[obtuse bay]

yeah, they are quiet

[main frigate]

EHG can give good impression back and fix the relationship with players by just responding if the expansion is free to play and how are they deal with Krafton's AI rumours.

Oh... And don't show roadmap.

I don't mind chanting that spell longer time.

[obtuse bay]

I think they will share another info in the next month, and they have chance to make new players comeback

make the game free for christmas and share more info about roadmap, new content, new endgame 😎

[magic vector]

Inb4 "sorry guys we want to put in more useless things and have to delay 2 months more"

[inner finch]

You were already told you are getting the Orobyss expansion for free

[karmic prairie]

😴

[exotic solar]

Problem is not existing players i think. There is gonna be high cost of entry for new players.

Without new players how this game gonna survive? Milking harder existing players?

[inner finch]

How high are we talking here, 70 dollars? 90?

As for the 6 month season time - i prefer them working on meaningful content patches than releasing lackluster 4 month season ones.
well, as long as its meaningful

[exotic solar]

Dont know, but when xpac comes out i believe base game cost will rise and unclude the xpac and there will be a class as dlc. I think prolly about 60-70

[exotic solar]

Doesnt matter time. We need a schedule 4 months/6 months/8 months whatever. It is very important to build up a consistent playbase.

[carmine smelt]

Usually games that do xpacs have sales / bundles for older DLCs. Newest one would be higher price, then eventually it becomes cheap or free so you don't end up with a 300$ backlog of xpacs to play the full game

[inner finch]

in due time, EHG may stabilize their schedule, or not, we can't be sure

but that's the intention, at least with the mass job openings

[exotic solar]

Waiting for that since 2023 lmao

[exotic solar]

I have been playing this game since 2022 and every update post includes a we are hiring section. All they did was make same mess but bigger scale.

[compact dawn]

Unless you are destiny 2

[woven coral]

There's a wild idea: they can get the game today for 34usd/eur.

[inner finch]

end of year sale gonna drop it to sub 30 yes

[exotic solar]

Why would they buy mixed reviewed game? Only PR last epoch had last few months is controversy at best.

[obtuse bay]

Idk whose working on marketing team but good luck for them lol

[main frigate]

No idea... They cooked S2 9 months, I burnt out in 2 weeks. They cooked S3 4 months, I burnt out in 1 week.

Not much difference 😅

[exotic solar]

I believe my cat would do better job than them

[fickle salmon]

morning

[inner finch]

Getting burnt out on a season in 2 weeks is a very individual thing. At the end of the day, this is something even the most content rich ARPG out there (PoE1) has people experiencing

[obtuse bay]

good morning ❤️

[exotic solar]

Cheers

[fickle salmon]

new to server thinking of buying the game is it wirthit have played diablo,poe,gw2 so just htinking of trying it

[main frigate]

GW2?

[inner finch]

Guild Wars 2

[fickle salmon]

guild wars2

[main frigate]

I don't know what game is that

[main quiver]

I tried GW2 years ago and couldn't get into it at the time, quit after like 2 days of playing, but been thinking about giving it another shot

[exotic solar]

What kind of experience you are looking for?

[compact dawn]

The game is somewhere between Diablo 4 and PoE1 in complexity for reference

[woven coral]

yes. definitely worth if you like arpg games like diablo or poe. personally never played poe but LE feels much better than diablo 4

[fickle salmon]

um casual but when get to endgam like to do raids/parties with others

[main frigate]

Oh casual. Zero relationship from Poe/Poe 2 with casual experience

[compact dawn]

Could be a bit tricky to do parties, but no more then it is in PoE1

[exotic solar]

Multiplayer is one of thr weakest aspect of this game sadly.

[main quiver]

LE feels very good to play, you ll just find yourself running out of content quite quickly imo. I usually just clear all the echo's to the end and kill the abys boss thingy and call it a day. Like a week of entertainment every few months with the potential of an even better game was worth the $35 to me.

And I like the crafting etc in this game, its not over complicated

[woven coral]

it took me 120h and about 2months to get normal aberroth. i think there is enough content for new player. especially if you dont follow build guids or strategy guides

[compact dawn]

nice thing is there isn't any hidden costs (yet) just buy the game and you have full access for everything (cash shop is cosmetics ONLY)

[exotic solar]

I think it depends on if you fall in one of the newbie traps

[main frigate]

Lol newbie traps in le spent me 600h+ to figure them out

(My case is extremely because I have zero experience on loot-based ARPG)

[inner finch]

The first newbie trap in LE is that the masteries that sound the coolest aren't actually the strongest or most versatile

(flak bait)

[woven coral]

and thats why for the first playthrough you should ignore things like that. "pick mastery that can kill everything in 1 shot"

i took your bait. congrats 🙂

just learn the game. enjoy. next time you can beat game within a day

[simple bison]

I don't think that's a noob trap at all, all masteries can do all content barring uber abby (at least easily). Just because a mastery is stronger than another doesn't mean it's more fun

You win in a game by having fun

[main frigate]

I wasted lots of time on forge guard's trap... No idea how to increase damage and go to a dead end.

[inner finch]

🍿

[exotic solar]

I measure my fun by havoc runes/hr.

[simple bison]

That's totally valid. Different peple get fun out of games in different ways

[main frigate]

I measure my fun by can I level them up to max level

[exotic solar]

Sadly only decent gamble is rolling exalteds with havoc runes. We need stuff like watchers eyes.

[main frigate]

Poe 2 give me great trouble on this rule of measurement

[main frigate]

I think Gregory can wear a popcorn hat too

[inner finch]

He can, only if you paint him in a Baroque style portrait with a fancy suit.

[main frigate]

It's a good idea for the difference

[civic bramble]

hello can anyone help me out

[simple bison]

With?

[civic bramble]

i am actually in the end game phase like can u help me out with what i have to do or farm for better builds

[waxen sparrow]

Tbh I won't mind paying the paid class if paradox class means being able to mix two different classes like necromancer and beastmaster

Seeing skellies with those aspects looks OP

[simple bison]

What's your in game name? like if you press H and look at the top left of the window

[civic bramble]

wait

[waxen sparrow]

It would be fun to play fire earthquake with paladin rive healing hands

[civic bramble]

MYSTICFTW

BUT I PLAY IN ASIA

[simple bison]

You're playing a necromancer right now right?

[civic bramble]

yes acolyte

[simple bison]

Do you want to stay as a necromancer or are you open to switching mastery?

[civic bramble]

i am open

[simple bison]

Here are some necromancer build guides, they tell you how to farm the gear too.
https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/build-guides?filter[build_guide_type][filters][0][taxonomy]=taxonomies.build_guide_type&filter[build_guide_type][filters][0][value]=archive&filter[build_guide_type][filters][0][operation]=!%3D&filter[build_guide_type][filters][1][taxonomy]=taxonomies.build_guide_type&filter[build_guide_type][filters][1][value]= &filter[build_guide_type][filters][1][operation]=NOT EXISTS&filter[classes][taxonomy]=taxonomies.classes&filter[classes][value]=acolyte&filter[classes][filters][0][taxonomy]=taxonomies.classes&filter[classes][filters][0][value]=necromancer

[civic bramble]

not an issue

[simple bison]

If you don't like any of them you can look at a lich or warlock build maybe.

[civic bramble]

no like not only builds like what to do in endgame like only play end of time

[simple bison]

Yeah you just do echoes pretty much

you can do woven echo farms

or just run echoes normally

[civic bramble]

and what about dungeons

[simple bison]

You don't really farm dungeons

[civic bramble]

so what about it

[simple bison]

they're only really used for their boss drops and mechanic

If your build needs a dungeon boss drop then yeah you'd farm it, but you don't farm them for generic loot

[civic bramble]

so i need help in temporal one it is doing one shot me

how to dodge that big circle

[simple bison]

Press D

[willow sentinel]

Change timeline yeah

[civic bramble]

press d for ?

[simple bison]

To change timeline

to avoid it

[willow sentinel]

See thats the problem with portal charm

Players come to the boss and havent ever used the dungeon gimmick

[civic bramble]

an what about the keys how to get them

[simple bison]

Do echoes

[civic bramble]

okkk like can u send me frnd req

wanna see ur build

[simple bison]

I'm not playing right now sorry

[civic bramble]

after reaching 100 lev what to do ?

[simple bison]

But I also play mage

[simple bison]

Getting 100 doesn't really change anything

Just keep grinding for gear and set your own goals

[civic bramble]

and what if i start with a new chac do i need to play the whole story again

[simple bison]

maybe you want to kill aberroth at first, and then maybe aim for uber aberroth

[simple bison]

Not the whole thing no, you can stop once you select your mastery if you can gear the character with items from your stash

[civic bramble]

ok so until i get to end of time

[simple bison]

yep

[civic bramble]

btw which server u play in

[simple bison]

EUW

[civic bramble]

okk

thanks for the help buddy

[simple bison]

no problem

[south moat]

You can still play with people that are on other servers
might get some lag though

[fallow copper]

is it possible to auto pick up shards/runes like you do gold?

[simple bison]

no

[fallow copper]

🙁

[south moat]

At least it vacuums all nearby ones
Used to have to click them separately

[obtuse bay]

thanks to loot filters, we see few items

it's also funny when streamers press X and finds out how many items on ground lol

[karmic prairie]

And even more funny when it has bugs and hides useful looot

[main frigate]

👀 oh exactly

I ignore this point because I have learnt how to kill this boss before portal charm is here.

Maybe EHG need to cook a tiny reminder

[inner finch]

There are... a plathora of UI and tooltip related things that definitely need some cooking

I know UI UX is getting some additional manpower, it may happen

[willow sentinel]

Prayge

I like to be able to skip dungeon, even though I am not sure its the right thing

Because a lot of new players will ignore dungeons, then start slamming gears so they will go there

And have charms

So will skip it and dont understand how are they supposed to avoid the time bomb

[inner finch]

LE in general is missing a lot of audio-visual cues about... just about most things

I wouldn't quite nominate it for accessibility awards, not just yet

[brittle aurora]

WHAT

[south moat]

?

[severe socket]

Well, yeah, up until a certain point we had to click each shard individually.

[fickle salmon]

is there auto loot ingame?/

[severe socket]

Nope.

Do you need it though?

[rancid pulsar]

sometimes it takes me a good 10 seconds to realize I died because I didn't look at the middle of the screen for a moment

need like a metal gear AAAAARGH

[severe socket]

YES, YES, SLICE IT WIDE OPEN

[acoustic palm]

I slept for 10 hours chat.

I feel all rested and ready to complain more about LE

I hope that everyone has a nice day tho

[main frigate]

Slept 5h then took 2-3h on a nap, last for 2 days

9h per sleep is the max time

[acoustic palm]

How long it's a nap until it turns into a sleep

[main frigate]

good question

[simple bison]

When you go into deep sleep

[main frigate]

My definition is any sleep start from noon is a nap

[acoustic palm]

Unrelated, but damn cyberpunk 2077 sold 35m copies

banger games to enjoy

[shut quiver]

Cyberpunk sounds a lot better

[south moat]

Agreed

Hope everyone is having a good day so far

[inner finch]

oh brother

[woven sentinel]

Shame it was so broken at the start though

[inner finch]

Just stumbled on dread's video. oh man...

[main frigate]

I think a turkey hat for Gregory is a good idea too

Happy Thanksgiving, American travellers

[inner finch]

stuffed Groles are already in the oven

[void hatch]

WHAT sold 35m copies?

[acoustic palm]

I saw it coming, 3 or 4 videos ago he mentioned that he found over 20 game breaking bugs some time ago and he was frustrated cuz he tried to make them work for hours, yet they failed cuz the passives were not working.

[acoustic palm]

Fixed

[inner finch]

Its just sad, really. Its essentially someone mourning the death of his favorite game

[lusty grotto]

Hi everyone

[acoustic palm]

HE was a big LE content creator too.

[lusty grotto]

dont worry guys if u dont wenna buy the new dlv you can get them for free from skidrow

my diablo 4 is dead 🙁 and now LE 🙁

[inner finch]

Not that funny, but also wrong

[lusty grotto]

and i hate poe 🙁

and poe 2 is dead 🙁

[inner finch]

and gaming in general is dead

[lusty grotto]

maybe will play LE from skidrow 😼

[inner finch]

and so are computers, people, nature, and the milky way

at 640 light years away, even betelgeuse is giving up

[acoustic palm]

dead as in what? it probably sold 1m just last league lol, lets not forget the mtx poe adds

[acoustic palm]

not sure how 'legal' is piracy on the official discord

[inner finch]

It died in early access

[acoustic palm]

financially? no, its the most profitable ARPG lol

[inner finch]

im joking of course

[acoustic palm]

ah sorry

I don't like it that much, but many people do. My diablo 4 friends are digging it a lot

[inner finch]

"x is dead" is sort of becoming its own parody

[acoustic palm]

if GD can make another expansion after 10 years, nothing is really daed

[lusty grotto]

dead in everything 🙁

[inner finch]

the planet is dying
the government hates us
the animals are leaving
the aliens aren’t contacting us
we might be alone
it just might be you and me, but that's OK, because do you really need anyone else?

[south moat]

Yes
I need some other people

[fringe thicket]

I hope LE & Krafton are happy.

Dr3adful - is perma stepping away from LE
Changed Logos & Names.
He just posted his video: https://youtu.be/D8oFTzimqiU?si=G9TN6xb6PRxqj2cu

[modern rock]

could someone explain to me why there is currently such a big fuss over LE? what did they do? 🙂 i heard about a paid class or something...is that it?

[brittle hollow]

Title of the video “Why I had ALREADY stepped away from Last epoch”

[rancid pulsar]

Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video

[livid oracle]

well. i just bought the game last season and thought it was cool. money well spent, not anymore

[acoustic palm]

they announced that they will make pay to play class called paradox, people are making a big fuss cuz there are many bugs still in game with classes that don't work (the creator above called dr3adful pointed that out), campaign is not finished and during early stages of the game, buy once play free after was one of the pro points on why play LE and not other arpg

[inner finch]

Much of dread's rage is about communication and handling of the game

which, i can agree with. He was tired of the bugs and handling of MTX

[acoustic palm]

Which is understandable, we all like things to be open and transparent

[modern anchor]

I am out of this. Game was fun while family owned. You guys can pay for cheap graphics and new content that should be free

Peace

[brittle aurora]

understandable, have a great day

[main frigate]

Dread's opinions for skill mtx is mine too 💯

[acoustic palm]

tbh, if the mtx you sell for doesn't work, its pretty much a sadge moment

[outer tundra]

I don't understand why people are posting here when they're returning or leaving the game. Online will still be visible in 1.4. And if it's 20-30k, then maybe the developers will change something

[acoustic palm]

he points out that t-rex mtx was making the skill lose 50% damage cuz no roar

[livid oracle]

wtf ?? lol

[outer tundra]

t-rex have mtx???

[acoustic palm]

dragon mtx

[main frigate]

lol he said EHG don't understand why no one buy skill mtx because they don't know which skills are players enjoying the most or which skills players don't enjoy at all. They released mtx for skills which no players play.

[outer tundra]

This is important, but if mtx looks worse than a regular skill, then why?

[acoustic palm]

i love how in the video of 20 mins he only shows 3 seconds of LE gameplay which is just the logo

[inner finch]

EHG knows which skills are most used, that's a core part of the complaint

They just decided to not focus on them

[coral valve]

How would devs have no idea about most used skills lmao

[outer tundra]

There are only a few mtxs in the game that are better than regular skills

[acoustic palm]

yeah, like we all know VK was meta since 5 years ago

[inner finch]

telemetry, letools

[acoustic palm]

or falcon

[inner finch]

plenty of sources

oh, the opposite of what ive said basically

[willow sentinel]

For some reason

[coral valve]

Well, duh. I am saying that they absolutely know

[outer tundra]

Actually, there is a very good mtx for the smoke bomb on the Falcon

[coral valve]

Problem with mtx is that they are mega bland.

[inner finch]

Even many of those that did get MTXs, the value was very questionable, like how Judgement retained the same color and effect, but had a slight visual addon

15 dollars.

[willow sentinel]

And it was bugged no?

[inner finch]

there were some effect bugs with stuff

[willow sentinel]

I remember someone saying the hand wasn't falling or smth

[inner finch]

... it was suppose to fall?

[willow sentinel]

Pretty sure it's supposed to

[acoustic palm]

yeah, but imagine if the falcon was a phoenix or something

[inner finch]

We asked for Falcon visuals from the moment the class was announced lol

it could be a phoenix, or a black crow, or anything

[acoustic palm]

A dog

[willow sentinel]

There is no mtx for Falcon?

[coral valve]

imagine flying cow from that wonky meme music

now that would be a proper mtx for falcon.

[acoustic palm]

The polish one? Haha

[coral valve]

Definitely would stir some talks left and right, but I for one would buy that

[inner finch]

There's a Toucan

[main frigate]

this is quite...Confusing

They want to focus on the expansion but not the game itself...

[inner finch]

Its very EHG-core

[acoustic palm]

We live in a society

[inner finch]

focus on the next big thing, leave the older things for another time

[balmy arrow]

[acoustic palm]

Yeah, but that custom premium class is in 1 year from now, people want season 4 news, they were expecting it in December or January

[woven coral]

Expansion is not part of the game?

[acoustic palm]

And I was expecting S4 soon too

Expansion will be, the class will not

[inner finch]

When an EHG member, i cant remember who, claimed about a month ago that they can still take their time, i knew that it will take more than 4 months this time

[main frigate]

I mean players will not believe EHG will polish the expansion well if the base game isn't fun ever. The trust is what will EHG need if they want to be profitable.

[inner finch]

PS5 release is a serious commitment, but i wont publically admit that it seems like shoes EHG might not be able to fill polish-wise. That would be a bit disrespectful, at least here on this server.

[acoustic palm]

an easy way to say that its "LE has lower polish than their competition"

[inner finch]

I never directly said that

[acoustic palm]

I did

The blood is on my hands

[inner finch]

Im also not saying the PC user market has higher tolerances for bugs and poor performance, and that we're used to it from the world of early access gaming

[main frigate]

When Dread said he's upset by bugs in skills he played after s3 is out, no feeling for me because I'm not interested in trying them ever...

Champions become the focus I have complaint since S2 lol

Sigh, le have been pretty fun before champions is here

[crystal grotto]

Paid classes? Damn. The sellout is real

[coral valve]

Relax with paid classes already, this gets nowhere. I also thought that this is a dealbreaker but then i actually used my brain and thought "well, it's gonna be like 1 year from now"

I would really enjoy a new season of LE and play game. I don't even try to fathom what's next year i am going to play

[hardy gate]

YEP, it's gonna be like 1 year from now

more paid things can be announced

[inner finch]

My approach is ride until it dies. It can take 1 season from now, or 2, or 3

if and when its irrelevant to my standards, ill leave

[coral valve]

Yeah. They can announce whatever they want. Paid lamborghini mount would be dope for one

Nobody is forcing you to press play button, yeah?

[stable forum]

same

I honestly really hope the PS5 port is really good because I will totally double dip just to get the platinum because I'm one of those losers

which, I guess that means we will finally get acheivements!

[main frigate]

I hope zero achievement about... Champions

[stable forum]

kill one of every type of champion sounds like an achievement to me!

[main frigate]

I want all champions disappear from le instead...

[errant verge]

Ooof dread was not gentle in his vid

[stable forum]

it's all valid and things that EHG needs to hear and hopefully they can take it to heart and make some changes!

[errant verge]

Agreed- a lot of points the community has been screaming about for a long time. Unfortunately despite some clear talent with the design vision of the game the management and tech side of the business needs a lot of fixing. Not to mention art and asset production. Let’s hope the turn the corner.

[main frigate]

I need to say, I'm appreciated how well done their jobs on environment art are through mtx is a chaos.

They produced tons of concept art when they developing the direction on weapons, characters and envionments. These results are public on artstation.

[acoustic palm]

Tbh, dread was a hero, he was making videos 2 times per week with non meta builds

[stable forum]

I'm glad he also talked about how toxic some of the community has gotten as well. I can't even imagine how demoralizing it is to make all these videos and the only thing people wanted to talk about was Krafton. That on it's own would be enough to make me want to take a break

[lavish raft]

Wasn't this the place where they said they would never charge for future updates? xD

[frosty ridge]

i personally dont understand all this hate around AI. if it allows them to make content fast as long as its good, who cares how they do it. just make the gameplay fun and challenging

[steel mesa]

the hate comes from a fear of replacing existing talent, using AI art, etc but AI is a good tool for creating content and makes work overall more efficient

[south moat]

They have said that
And as it turns out they weren't making money

[steel mesa]

it's almost like people aren't gonna buy cosmetics if they suck

so yeah

[south moat]

Yup

[steel mesa]

I know many people that wanted to support them but the quality of the cosmetics just isn't worth the money

[indigo mist]

If the ship sinks. I'll be here on its last gasp of air.

[queen atlas]

still sitting on like, all the currency i've got from purchasing supporter packs. still shocked at how small and lackluster the shop's been

[severe socket]

There's been a lot (A LOT) of stories and takes about people offloading their own thought process to "artificial idiocy" to a degree where said thought process was no more, where those people became so goddamn clueless and hopeless and helpless without "artificial idiocy" hand-holding them through their every step, it's jarring to even imagine.

Not to mention a VERY tangible possibility (heck, reality!) of said "artificial idiocy" making either mistakes or deliberate misleading.

Common sense is becoming disappearingly scarse nowadays, sadly.

[steel mesa]

AI isn't perfect and definitely makes mistakes which is why you should always double check what it spits out

[severe socket]

I'd rather not use it at all.

Given how it absolutely RAVAGES the globe on the background.

Don't want to add to the collateral.

The likes of krapton can absolutely revel in it for all I care if that's the best they can do.

[main frigate]

I want to be a witness to how EHG's story is written in the future so I stay here

[steel mesa]

My take is AI is good when used as a tool but when a company goes "AI First" that's the beginning of the end for them

[main frigate]

Their story is interesting

[severe socket]

Their job is not to f--k it all up.

Or... was.

Depends on one's perspective.

[steel mesa]

The time travel theme allows for them to go in interesting directions but tbh I don't care about the story, I'm more concerned with their content in the future

[errant verge]

Dread was a hero, making content as often as he did was better than a marketing role lol

The fact that his good will is gone is a canary imo

[main frigate]

No, I don't mean the in-game story because I don't know what the story is yet

EHG's story = the game development they're doing

The pity is meet the team is under hiatus. That was the best way to learn that

[severe socket]

Ah, you mean the storyline in the game.

[steel mesa]

They can get some good will back if they fix the bugs and give us some unique content for once, people are tired of things not working and fighting a new rare mob every season

[severe socket]

I was imagining something metaphorical about their lifetime as a company. 😅

About that...

To this day I do not understand for the love of it how did it happen that they let the game go into release with an unfinished storyline.

[indigo mist]

or you know... not having to wait half a year for a basically not really that impactful update?

[severe socket]

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

[steel mesa]

they probably needed the money that a 1.0 update brings lol

but yes it was a mistake because the game still isn't polished

[steel mesa]

yeah... their team is pretty sizable at this point so I don't get it

close to 200 devs but mediocre updates taking that long is concerning

[acoustic palm]

well, now that they have as many emloyees as GGG before poe 2, we could expect more polish

[steel mesa]

I hope so, I do love the game and their vision for it still but it's been rough

[acoustic palm]

hopium

[steel mesa]

used to drop hundreds of hours every update but now I feel like I barely play

[full bane]

so I missed something but I was told people were needlessly mad what did I miss?

[pulsar geyser]

paid dlc coming with expansion

[full bane]

What's in the dlc?

[acoustic palm]

paid class*

[full bane]

What else?

[acoustic palm]

That's it

[full bane]

Well that was a waste of my time I thought there was good drama not some made up drama augh

So people are mad that they have to pay for new classes?

[acoustic palm]

That's the drama about, we know not much but that we have to pay more in 1 year, nothing more

[low moon]

more it's like because current classes are bugged to shit on top of it

[main frigate]

Complicated emotions for le's community after being one of members and be active for 641 days

[full bane]

641 days is a lot

I dunno if it's just paid class thsi drama is about the only ARPG I can think of that doesn't charge for new classes is path of exile, all other ARPG business model will sell new classes.

[exotic solar]

Nice rage bait

[full bane]

Titan quest, grim dawn, diablo, torchlight, marvel heroes (I miss this game so much), couple others I am forgetting

[exotic solar]

Seems like you are creating your own drame

[full bane]

Well if saying that POE is the only ARPG not charging for classes is ragebait... that means you raged at that?

[burnt reef]

Morning Everyone!!! Wanted To Say Happy Thanksgiving... Hope Everyone Has A Great Day With Family & Friends 🥳

[full bane]

Thanksgiving was last month

[exotic solar]

I am not raging i am pointing out you are actively baiting people

You can have your own opinion and i am ok with it

[full bane]

No, you're saying you think I am baiting people, meaning you interpret what I said as bait, I think my statement is very factual?

[main frigate]

do your stuffed turkey cooking in the oven?

[low moon]

"I missed the drama" -> Proceeds to create drama instead

[coarse swallow]

Happy Thanksgiving

[exotic solar]

It is your opinion and it is controversial in current climate

[full bane]

Why is it controversial? Care to explain that to me please?

[south moat]

Grim Dawn hasn't even sold a class as a separate thing.
They've all come with other content instead of "here, buy this class"

[full bane]

That is very true, you have to buy the whole expansion to get the new classes, they aren't sold seperately.

[exotic solar]

See 👆

[inner finch]

Oh brother... Happy Thanksgiving

[full bane]

For instance, in Grim Dawn, if you want to play the 2 necro masteries, you need to buy the Ashes of Malmouth expansion (which is pretty great)

[exotic solar]

I suggest you to watch Chris Wilson interview with Arthur Bruno

[sharp hedge]

i still personally dont see the issue with class being sold

in other games you pay for the whole expansion in order to get the class

in last epoch u get the expansion for free but only pay for the class

i understand in general that selling the expansion may be the better move, but i dont see how this is that much of an issue

[exotic solar]

They go deep on this topic but overall great insights

[full bane]

Yeah, I've watched it, which would pretty much say this model is superior to Grim Dawn's lol

At least the expansion content is free, only classes are paid. Which goes back to my question, why is that controversial?

It's like the standard business model in ARPGs with only really poe being the exception, hence why I don't get why there is drama. But apparently discussing that is "controversial"

[exotic solar]

Do you remember how they apporached it. Part about goodwill and meeting expextations?

[balmy ibex]

Because introducing paid classes creates a fundamental, perverse incentive to overtune said class in order to drive sales

[full bane]

Well on that topic he talks about good will, exceptions and specifically "good will credits". You can cash in good will credits when you don't meet expectations, for one, which is an example Chris brings up more than once on the topic of Mirror of Kalandra

[exotic solar]

Yes and EHG is out of goodwill for a while which is the problem.

[keen summit]

What just because Spiritborn in D4 did 10x the damage as all the other classes!?

[full bane]

Well that's a legitimate fear, but we'd have to see how EGH handles it. As I said, other than POE this is literally an industry standard in ARPGs

[copper sorrel]

Yea, if they cared about the game first, and not being greedy people, then they would pack classes and expansion into one thing and make sure its fantastic.

[full bane]

In Grim Dawn, new classes are generally undertuned

[balmy ibex]

There's also the rumblings that the Paradox classes are the previously-free Skill Sigils that were in the roadmap, retooled into paid content

as those are now absent from said roadmap

[full bane]

Personally I think EGH should just sell the classes along with the expansion instead of making it free, by trying to be generous, they just end up upsetting people that get confused with the business model.
Expansion bundled with classes is very typical.

[exotic solar]

Mike said its been worked on and seperate from paradox classes

[balmy ibex]

Sure but at one point one was prioritized and the other was dropped

[exotic solar]

I believe it is a marketting decision. You go in a new fancy zone as 7 years old marksman model and next guy is fresh out of the box.

[copper sorrel]

They are generous with the expansion, because all their focus is put into classes, which they charge money for. So not even "generous"

[full bane]

Well, that's generlaly how it goes with all other ARPGs lul

[balmy ibex]

tbh the entire thing just seems like they made a token attempt at monetizing through cosmetics and didn't get what they wanted, but my issue is that they didn't release enough stuff to buy for that to be viable anyway

[exotic solar]

Some era of germany was a standard for while it doesnt mean it was good

[full bane]

Marvel Heroes was one of the big one back in the days, they released about 12 classes per year? As time went one new classes got better animation and what not

Oof you went there lmao

What's that razor called again

Godwin's Law

[mint thicket]

Cooked

[chilly ember]

yeah i don’t think those two things are particularly comparable to be honest call me crazy

[rapid turtle]

A lot of people smoking some hopium in here unfortunately

EHG sold out to Krafton, hadnt delivered on all 1.0 promises, introducing paid classes ALONG with a cosmetic store (thats ass). Which means theyre dipping their toes into multiple revenue streams. What we're being preached now is absolutely not what they promised years ago to the people who supported pre 1.0.

Game had good bones, but greed and a lack of promising content is going to drive this game into the graveyard with other countless ARPGs that thought extracting a dollar from their gamer base was more valuable than providing good content and cosmetics that people wanted to buy.

Im sure there will be no shortage of white knights here saying 'other companies do this too' as if its some grand talking point that most companies are greedy. There hasnt been anything worth purchasing in LE since releasse, and I seriously doubt this content will change that. It took a game I was whole heartedly excited for and just turned it into another cheap monetization tool that will fizzle out.

Good luck with your future paid expansions, but youre not getting another dollar out of me. This Krafton purchase has obviously brought a lot of monetization issues forward and its going to kill your game. If you want people to be excited enough to buy expansions, the free content you release better be good enough to have the trust of your fans. And it isnt.

[main frigate]

em? #news have new voice

[acoustic palm]

Thanksgiving is nice, but when epochgiving

[main frigate]

Maybe it can become the content for the 2nd anniversary

[full bane]

Gotta love the cognitive bias in that post. You acknowledge they are a company but are upset they are behaving like a company 😄 At least you didn't go full Godwin like that other guy

[rapid turtle]

Plenty of companies are successful without exploiting their fan base, but go on

[full bane]

I mean we definitely don't have teh same definition of exploiting. Most people upset seem to have put EGH on a pedestal or expected something out of norm (GGG). Then again, GGG is far more greedy.

I think I've dropped like 5k on POE? 😄

[rapid turtle]

............ and how much of that was on content you absolutely needed to play the game? And how often do they release content exactly? And how did those cosmetics look that you purchased?

and how much did you pay to play the game

[brittle hollow]

You don’t NEED to play the classes.. just saying

[compact dawn]

generally you can spend $30 on PoE1 / 2 and get pretty well set up if you buy stash tabs while they are on sale (happens around every 2 weeks)

[rapid turtle]

No you dont, but if those classes are the best in the game and if leaderboards matter to you... then you have to

AND if you dont already own the game, you do need to pay for it AND the expansion

[compact dawn]

The general stance is, for some people character classes ARE the content, and everything else is just an excuse to play them.

[full bane]

Depends on the game. For PoE, which is the exception, it's free to start, then you kinda need a couple tabs to handle your inventory, currency tabs, premium tabs and market tabs as of now. 50-100$ at the very least to start off. Then, the game's default cosmetics are intentionally made doodoo like, so you kinda want to buy at least one or two set of skins at 20-30$ a pop. So overall 100$ is how much you're expected to spend if you get hooked on poe and if you care about skins but honestly been playing the game for long enough, I've never walked into a hideout of someone that didn't have a couple skins at least.

Release content depends on the ARPG. Some are season, some are pure expansions. The standard is really pure expansions across the vast majority of ARPGs (30-50$ comes with classes). Most ARPGs are fairer when it comes to skins as well that are included in the game.

Most games don't update their cosmetics, this isn't a new problem either. Release skins often look bad compared to later skins, be it paid or free.

Like I love ARPGs, it's my core type of game, with this change, LE falls pretty much in the middle with some free content and paid classes, instead of just paid expansions. Honestly, as I said earlier, I feel they should have just went full expansion mode. Would have been less confusing to people.

[compact dawn]

you absolutly do not need to spend 50-100 for stash tabs. You can easily get by with 30 if you buy the high value ones during sales.

[rapid turtle]

yeah this guy is just a total capitalist junkie that thinks if a company can make a dollar off you theyre entitled to it

[full bane]

Yeah but that's without any skins and people will buy skins because otherwise you look like a hobo. As people say, cosmetics is the true end-game.

[compact dawn]

Only a select number of people care about the skins, and even then If you spend the 30 on a supporter pack you get skins, + the 30 worth of points for stashes

[full bane]

And, as I said, poe is the exception, not the norm. It's one of the dozens of ARPGs that are played and it's unique in that spot.

[rapid turtle]

who cares if some random on the internet thinks youre a hobo, what?

it has absolutely, unequivocally, NOTHING to do with the content of the game

and almost all other ARPGs suck...

[tardy bison]

cosmetics are actually fun in poe1, and skill effects. I've spent about $800 but have 15000 hours so the math maths right.

[rapid turtle]

theres nothing wrong with buying cosmetics! just acting like its some must have purchase is drunk talk

[full bane]

I would disagree it's a select number of people. Especially with ARPGs, people look at their characters 100% of the time. It's right there, in your face. As I said, ARPGs is all I play. I play most of them and I play them with a lot of people. PoE is one where people spend the most on skins because there is literally no way to look good unless you use a whacky full unique build.

[compact dawn]

yeah cosmetics isn't even in the conversation when it comes to budget game onboarding.

[full bane]

The topic is company greed and how they get their money in

GGG is damn good at getting money from cosmetics, EGH is not

[rapid turtle]

yes... and cosmetics that you can choose to buy are a LESS greedy means of acquiring money

[half dawn]

soooo, are they doubling down on DLC purchasable classes?

[full bane]

So they go the normal route that all other companies do: Sell expansions with classes.

[rapid turtle]

because they are , wait for it, optional

[full bane]

Optional to an extent until you get bored of looking like a hobo, as I said, go watch Chris Wilson's own youtube video on dark patterns, he explains it exquisitely.

[compact dawn]

the big thing for EHG is I don't think they have a way for whales to spend money. How much money can you even spend on the LE cash shop? GGG does it so much better, can dump thousands for cosmetics and still not buy out the store

[full bane]

Exactly

But at the same time, every time they talked about monetizing new skins people in here would lose their shit

[rapid turtle]

absolutely they would not

thats 100% false

[full bane]

People would probably rather have LE just die than have them make money

[rapid turtle]

no, they would rather have them not sold out to a lame AI company like Krafton and watch the greed seep into their game

[compact dawn]

there will always be detractors, just ignore them and work on products that actually make money.

[full bane]

Exactly

[compact dawn]

Honestly, EHG should have at least 1, if not more, people working exclusviely on cosmetics, as it's currently the main source of income for them.

[rapid turtle]

if a yearly expansion came for free with a $60 MTX bundle worth buying theyd make more money than forcing people to pay for the classes IMO

[full bane]

Well they used to do that

[rapid turtle]

except the MTX wasnt worth buying

[full bane]

Each new seasons came with a cosmetics pack

Exactly, wanna know why?

[rapid turtle]

and theyre shit, here in lies the problem

[full bane]

The game already has a really solid and free cosmetic pool

It's like diablo 4, I never once felt the need to buy a comsetics

Teh game is full of them and for free

[compact dawn]

Well so does PoE2, and they still sell

[rapid turtle]

yup

they suuuure do @compact dawn

[chilly ember]

most people that think the mtx are bad have more broad problems with the game's art direction, which isn't something that can be fixed as simply as described

[full bane]

I'll be honest in poe2 I barely see people with poe2 skins lol. It's either poe1 ones or free ones, there are somes, but it's not a big seller like in poe1

[rapid turtle]

D4 is the greediest game of them all, and were looking to them for a comparable player in the space this conversation is cooked

[full bane]

Go into any town in poe1 past act 2 and most people have a full set of skin with pets and all that jazz

[rapid turtle]

because they have the team to generate money from MTX but still opt for paid for expansions

[compact dawn]

No way to know for sure just yet, The corp filling is coming in December some time, so we can see by comparing last years income vs this years

[rapid turtle]

im not saying people dont buy mtx in poe1, im sayin they arent required to enjoy the game

[full bane]

Ye, I am curious about that. They also lost a ton of poe1 sales, even Keepers isn't a great league

[rapid turtle]

GGG makes more money than EHG, thats just a fact

[full bane]

Yeah but we're talking game financials Mitch

[rapid turtle]

maybe our conversation stems from separate places then

because id happily pay more money for MTX i like rather than be obligated to pay for a game that hasnt delivered

[chilly ember]

is there any ARPG that is successful and has acceptable monetization other than POE in your opinion?

[compact dawn]

Sales are actually up in 2024, they filed in sept so it didn't reflect PoE2 sales

[rapid turtle]

Hero Siege maybe, Grim Dawn

[full bane]

That's why you need to calm down a bit on the wide brush when trying to have a discussion. To have a rational discussion, you have to be able to deconstruct something, even something you hate, and to look at it, understand it and compare it.

Like D4, yes, they are blizzard, a greedy bunch

But compared to poe1, they are far less greedy when it comes to mtx

[rapid turtle]

okay

i dont think you're speaking from an unbiased place at all lol

[compact dawn]

MTX is the only method of income for these live service games, they need to be agressive

[rapid turtle]

D4 is absolutely, greedier than POE.

When you open up the doors to require:

A purchase to the game
A purchase to the content
A purchase to the skins

that is greed

[compact dawn]

even with PoE1's aggression they are at 35% profit margin, which is really good TBH, but it's not exactly a robbery. About 38m in profit IIRC.

[full bane]

See, that's my point Mitch, read back what I said about being able to deconstruct a system and look at it

[chilly ember]

hero siege sells characters and costmetics, so does GD

[rapid turtle]

Did they stand on a hill that they would never force you to buy this?

[muted cape]

🦃

[full bane]

I am not saying D4 is less greedy than poe. I am saying the MTX system in D4 is less greedy than poe.
In D4, you pay 60$ and you don't really need to spend more. It's about the same in poe if you drop 60$ on a supporter pack to get some skins and some tabs.
But, on the MTX front, you'll get a whole lot more in D4 than poe. That's my only point in that regard, and this is intentional, as CW said himself, because outside of tabs, that's like their entire business model

[chilly ember]

i don't know, honestly, but i don't really personally view that as important so long as it wasn't done with the intent of being deceptive, which is not what i view the situation here to be

[silk compass]

🦃

[full bane]

They literally have made some skills look bad to immediately sell the solution after. A good example are banners. After they released banners and the god awful banner that sticks out your butt, they added the "Invisible" MTX, which I bought like 5 of 'cause I wanted to hit a lot of crap, but you know, create a problem, sell the solution works great.

[compact dawn]

honestly, the goblin troupe, and the vulture/land shark

They got me on that one

[full bane]

I'll be honest I've kinda grown attached to the goblin troupe 😄

[rapid turtle]

I will agree that being intentionally deceptive and what's happening here is different.

But what I initially said was, that after this Krafton purchase all of this greed started seeping in. I dont pretend like its specifically EHG that pushed for this, they may have been forced to. But as a consumer thats not my job to care about, I now am required to pay more money to enjoy all the new content theyre releasing. Where I am not forced to do this in any other game I play

[compact dawn]

I murder them every time I see one. I bought the vulture AND the shark to make sure I can kill them all

[full bane]

😄

[compact dawn]

I'm a bit sad they didn't fix it in PoE1, it only eats one of the goblins, but least the sound effects don't play

[chilly ember]

I am firmly of the belief that this outcome was inevitable regardless of the krafton purchase.

is poe the only other arpg you play?

[brittle hollow]

So you want them to give you the game for free? Or do you still think that the game will be a price and then the expansion will be paid on top of it ? Because they were very clear the game will be getting shipped with the expansion on any purchase.

[compact dawn]

EHG reported they weren't profitable. So they had a choice, shut down the company or reinvestment (sale to Krafton)

[full bane]

Well obviously people would rather have the company shutdown

Single player only let's goooooooo

[compact dawn]

I think there is a way to prevent updates with LE and run in offline mode only if you want to pretend that.

[rapid turtle]

does anyone play LE for the merchants guild anyways? Enough gold duping around to make that half essentially unplayable

[chilly ember]

afaik there was no duping this season

(i don't play mg dupes or no but that's what i've been told by mg players)

[zenith oar]

Bruh locking away content behind $ you guys are finished

[rapid turtle]

@brittle hollow they did say the expansion will be included in the game price, buuuuuuuuuut that price will be going up - so it is essentially paying for the expansion, no?

they said the expansion is free if you own the game, if you dont you need to buy the game + the expansion + the classes was my understanding

and I just think thats totally wrong. It feels super greedy and is antithetical to what they had preached for years

[zenith oar]

How tf is that possible? They must've made so many mistakes and wasted millions to get there.

[compact dawn]

It's not about greed, it's about survival. If LE was making profit I would agree with you, but it's not

[chilly ember]

i get the fact that they said "updated purchase" in the post, and while i think that's certianly possible, i also don't think it's 100% declarative.

[compact dawn]

Even PoE as successful as it is, makes 35% profit margin (which is very good, but not exactly a windfall)

[brittle hollow]

They didn’t say that the price is going up. They didn’t say that you need to buy the game + the expansion + classes.

They said the that expansion, seasonal content and base game will be included in an updated purchase once the expansion drops. Updated purchases can mean increased price or can mean just an updated “bundle” compared to what we get now.

Currently you get base game + seasonal content.

[compact dawn]

Margins for LE as a much less successful game will be much tighter, and I guess they dip below 0%

[rapid turtle]

So what in your opinion are the reasons the game wasnt successful enough?

Cause that seems to be the root of the problem here. Not enough fun content, very little balancing done, no new skills?

There are lots of ways to keep people engaged and spending money on a game that's fun

[zenith oar]

If you can't support your live service game with cosmetics only or very cheap QOL stuff like stash tabs in poe whilst offering all gameplay content for free, then you don't deserve to exist. You are anti consumer crap.

[chilly ember]

as someone who has been playing since very early beta, the most likely reason is that they've had an extremely hard time keeping up with tech debt from when the team was a handful of people with limited experience while also trying to keep up with constant player demand for expanding scope and content on a schedule that is unrealistic for them.

[compact dawn]

Eh, it's what the market will bare. Diablo 4 locks stuff behind payways, and they are doing ok.

[brittle hollow]

Also people keep talking about 3 million copies sold. Thats a number that does exist. I’m not sure it’s a number since 1.0 started though. It may be a number since EA

[rapid turtle]

D4 has blizzards name attached, lets not act like that doesnt matter

if d4 was a standalone game it would have failed seasons ago

[zenith oar]

I said you don't deserve to exist. They will unfortunately exist because some people are okay with pay2win crap

[compact dawn]

Of course it matters, but even historically they sold expansions even for D2 and it was acceptable even then.

[rapid turtle]

so do you think that D4 on its own, detached from blizzard, would be successful

personally I think itd be in essentially the same place as LE

[compact dawn]

"I said you don't deserve to exist." ouch man, don't need to get personal :P. I can see your point that it's undesirable, but sadly it works, and people will contiue to use those methods until they are illegal or the market will no longer bare them.

[zenith oar]

Yeah. Also I don't think it should be illegal FYI.

[chilly ember]

it would be way worse because the development and maintenance costs are 1000% orders of magnitude higher

[zenith oar]

But I wasn't that big into LE to begin with

[chilly ember]

and not only does it have blizzard attached, it has the diablo IP attached, which is a big seller even with diablo's reputation being where it has been for 10+ years

[rapid turtle]

yeah, those comparisons are apples to like watermelons

blizzard can shit on a plate and some of their cronies would call it gourmet

[compact dawn]

I think EHG misunderstood how many people buy microtransactions. The number is probably close to 20% and they simply didn't have enough for the whales to spend on to keep them afloat. A LOT of games survive off of whales.

[rapid turtle]

the part that sucks about this is that LE had a chance but it seems to be heading int he diablo route rather than the PoE route. And it hasnt done enough to create the goodwill to purchase more content when what exists has been so delayed and underwhelming

this decision will likely fracture their player base, and by making a small term profit likely shoot themselves in the foot in the long run

[compact dawn]

You need to have an offering for the 20%, and the game needs to be good enough to keep the 80%, because the 20% does not buy things when the game is dead. It's a ecosystem, and the 80% feeds the 20% so that the 20% can feed the company

[zenith oar]

Thing is, blizzard never promised d4 won't have DLC or content locked behind $.

EHG made it crystal clear that there wouldn't be any and also that Krafton buyout wouldn't affect them.

[rapid turtle]

people feel like this is just some point to gloss over

but its bullshit

[zenith oar]

You could very easily argue anyone who gave money to EHG got scammed

[acoustic palm]

I would love to have 35% profit margin on my money lol, but any source on that ? I would love to read more

[zenith oar]

I purchased the game and cosmetics with the promise of never having content locked behind a paywall

[queen atlas]

you could, but it would be a bad, stupid argument just like it's always been

[rapid turtle]

anyways, im done work for the day so enough complaining about this game on the internet lol. If the expansion drops and its some godsend content people are glowing about maybe ill give it a shot. But I doubt it basd on their track record

[zenith oar]

Why would it be stupid

[rapid turtle]

its not stupid

[zenith oar]

They promised they would never do the thing they're doing now

[compact dawn]

GGG is a corp in NZ, by law their profit filings are public domain I don't think I can link their filings directly because of NZ law, but I can link the website where you can search for them yourself.
https://companies-register.companiesoffice.govt.nz/

Search for Grinding Gear games, and under documents you can see fillings

[queen atlas]

"company pwomised" bro please. most of these comments were couched in "our goal is..." (especially around KS) and financial realities exist. i'm none too happy about these changes either but i swear smoothbrains just cannot stop themselves.

[zenith oar]

Lmao I feel bad for you. Brainlet consoomer.

[queen atlas]

don't be late for your retail shift bro

[acoustic palm]

if i'm reading it right this year, so far they made nearly 30m euro ?

[zenith oar]

I don't really care that much and I got my fun with LE but you can easily charge back whatever money you gave them.

[acoustic palm]

ah no its another currency

[queen atlas]

please do this and let us know what happens : )

[compact dawn]

in 2024, I think it was 30? I forget it's been awhile since I looked

[acoustic palm]

yeah

[zenith oar]

You get money back and they perma ban you it's nothing new

[compact dawn]

We won't know about PoE2, until they release the next filling in Dec this year. They moved the date from Sept to Dec.

[queen atlas]

another person that fundamentally doesn't understand why chargebacks exist. incredible.

[coarse swallow]

Please remember to keep conversations civil - insults don't make arguments more convincing.

[zenith oar]

I think you're the only one here who doesn't understand

[acoustic palm]

just used clanker to research more, but yeah, they net 40m dollars profit this year, with 9m more than last year

[zenith oar]

If a company advertises something then does the exact opposite that is grounds for chargeback.

You can chargeback for bogus reasons too but in this case it's not even bogus.

[queen atlas]

so it's intentional lmao, ooph

[zenith oar]

The chargeback is intentional? Uh yeah?

[queen atlas]

you not understanding either the current situation or why chargebacks exist

[compact dawn]

All before PoE2 sales too, they increased profit while working on a 2nd game with no revenue from it. Should be very interesting to see how much they made this year.

[acoustic palm]

Hmm, i think poe 2 makes more money than poe 1 at this point, doesn't it? but yeah, their november and december numbers which are poe 1 and poe 2 new leagues aren't added, with 2 leagues should be way more

[zenith oar]

You're simultaneously pretending to be civil and also insult me but you're full of shit im sorry LE is going to shit but I'm not the one who deserves your anger lol

[queen atlas]

don't project, bro

[zenith oar]

Anyways gl to EHG a lot of people will just sign off now it could've been better

[compact dawn]

Yeah we have no idea on PoE2, it sounded like a success when Jonathan talked about it, but will only know once the numbers are out.

[acoustic palm]

True, all in all, 40m + profit without the last 2 leagues can't be bad

[acoustic palm]

But yeah. I like arpgs, I like having multiple cakes to eat, I hope we don't lose this cake

Even for people that dislike LE, competition always brings inovation

[nimble topaz]

when some real good news on the development and about new season?

[inner finch]

could be just before xmas, could be just after new years

[chilly ember]

they said early 2026 so before christmas sounds unlikely

[autumn kindle]

Cant wait for the expansion, hyped af

Ive seen i lot of hate online idk whats the deal lol

[willow canopy]

people complaining about paid classes like that hasn't been a thing since diablo.

[ionic vale]

fam

fam

wdym early 2026

how early

24 dec is 4 months

i get it

u push it to the new year cause christams

ok nws

nws at all

by all means!!!!

but

early 2026 is ambiguous

come on

anything from jan-march can be considred early january

i jus wan season 4 plz

[acoustic palm]

they are surely not releasing Dec/ January because other arpgs

[ionic vale]

nah i dont think they care about that anymore

obs they wont do the same week as another arpg

but if its within a week they dont care

season 3 was like that and they said we delayed season 2 too much to get perfect timing and it still wasnt

poe2 snaked them

[night marten]

Why not jan? D4 and poe2 both in early dec. And poe1 in feb(assuming they also stay on 4 month) Why couldnt LE do like jan 8 or 15?

Is there a game i am missing?

[acoustic palm]

poe1 in Jan, no?

Idk man. I will just wait patiently for new news from LE

[night marten]

Isnt it 2 months between poe1&2? Thats what i thought

[stable forum]

Yes, that’s correct. I also think 1/8 or 1/15 would be perfect!

[night marten]

It would be nice to keep distance from the rest of the games.

Just up to them on how fast they can get it ready

Cuz if it goes to march...thats bad

[autumn briar]

poe1 is feb

jan is perfect. has to happen

[stable forum]

If they have it ready, it would be easy to do like a teaser before the holidays, then come back with another trailer right after. Then it’s just hype and promos everyday until it launches

[autumn briar]

late jan is still ok. poe1 most likely towards end of feb rather than start of

that would put it at 5 months after s3, which is acceptable considering holiday period. but if that's missed, feb is a no because of poe1, then march would be 7 months after s3. that's a full rip

[full bane]

I think I found the solution to all the malding

POE has 4 boobas boss. LE doesn't.

Add 4 booba boss EGH

[acoustic palm]

They may tease us with the price of paradox class /s

But yeah, it would be nice to have some teasers

[autumn kindle]

The prob with last epoch for most is gameplay, sfx feel imo, also they seriously need to add some bosses between abberoth and uber version of it

[inner finch]

There will be a boss in-between difficulty

Its pretty much confirmed between the lines

[indigo mist]

ngl, this would help a lot of people... some to decide to fully drop the game and some to not leave.

[still cove]

Ok guys I have made a decision. Im at peace with the new P2W model. I will pay and I will win.

[cobalt fable]

krafton like this post

[still cove]

I'd rather pay to win then pay for crappy mtx that does nothing.

[shut quiver]

I miss the days when video games were made for the sake of love for craft

Now its all about which business model is more profitable/sustainable

[muted cape]

a decent player can already beat the game for for free, specially with the power of the maxroll guides

[scenic fog]

I am sad I won't be able to try out the new classes. With the cost of living crisis these days I need to make every penny count... Though I do hope those who can afford to spend money on such things well. I hope the classes are fun and worth the money.

[elder barn]

that's not the positive sentiment you think it is bud

[scenic fog]

Expansions always being free is language that sort of implies the new classes in said expansions would be too... This doesn't sound like EHG unless yet another company has changed due to success... Which would be a terrible shame...

I feel like we are being left with Bethesda's cheap nylon bag when we were promised a high quality canvas bag, if you will pardon the Bethesda metaphor.

[acoustic palm]

Well, EHG said that expansion will be free for existing players, the new players will have to pay for it.

Class is paid for everyone tho

[scenic fog]

I suppose they have to keep the lights on somehow... but this feels very bad...

[acoustic palm]

I don't know how they plan to attract new players if it's going to be base game plus paid expansion and paid clsss

But hey, they know better than me

[elder barn]

do they though

[scenic fog]

It is a very bad look given the state of the world. Hmmm, should I buy groceries.... or Last Epochs new Paradox Classes... decisions... 🤔

[shut quiver]

4 years ago I spent close to 400$ on a game called Albion online(f2p btw). Today I don't even remember much about the game. Take what u will from that

[scenic fog]

I played Albion for a bit, I think I bought premium for like a month and then decided it wasn't for me. Any game where a huge pack of BR's is waiting camped at the entrance of a pvp zone to gank you isn't a fun experience.

[shut quiver]

See their monetisation made sense cuz it was similar to that of OSRS. U buy premium once and u can make off the next month's purely by playing

And yeah it is pvp heavy game so being in a clan helps a lot

[acoustic palm]

I spent 15 euro on demon slayer iMax and I had a blast

[shut quiver]

But the point I was trying to make is, it was worth spending money on that game even tho it was f2p and fairly monetised simply cuz I was having fun. But today I don't even remember much about it and im pretty sure i'd have had same amount of fun without spending as much

[scenic fog]

I hope they come up with a less tedious way to engage with the corruption system. Searching for the orobyss encounters on monoliths, i don't find that even remotely fun. I find it tedious, I wish there were a more streamlined way to increase it without the huge time sink trying to get there.

[autumn briar]

i got from 4000 to 5000 in a few hours.

[scenic fog]

Hey that's great, good job if you did. I don't even really bother with it myself because I do not like it in its current format.

I'll do one, get like 6 corruption and then sigh at the search of having to find another one...

[autumn briar]

most people give up before 300 corruption, so you're not alone. mono grind isn't engaging enough for most people

talktive tri's highest level char is 86 and this is a guy who ehg chose to interview for s2, he's probably a good representative of the actual playerbase

[scenic fog]

That's just it though, I want to get into high corruption, but it's so bloody hard to stay interested with a single character.

I wish they had a portal you could earn after clearing the mono, and tie it into the lore, you know? "Now you must face the blackest pit of the Void, Traveller..."

[old eagle]

We getting the blue hole special I mean Krafton make over * 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[scenic fog]

And every clear increased the corruption.

Make the scenery after clearing the mono go black as pitch. Make the sun in the distance fade so dim you can barely make it out and then send us after the big bad, involve every timeline.

And include the corruption, make it increase after every clear. Give signs Orobyss becomes more enraged every time you clear.

I want the devs to make a scary villain, I don't want to fight Orobyss, who is supposed to be the avatar of the Void itself with my eyes closed to slits, spamming a skill channelling that "meh..." energy. I want to be afraid of him, I want to make mistakes, I want him showing up to be impactful, frightening and challenging.

[mortal tinsel]

ok so...you want invun phases with bullet hell👍🏿 got it👍🏿

[scenic fog]

Well no, stuff like that kinda feels cheap.

I have an example, you remember that beautiful scene in the story where you are on the back of that large majestic bird? Something epic like that, landscape changes, like time is in flux. And the mechanics must all be because the player made a mistake, not because of any cheap mechanics.

Imagine the edge of the arena being in flux, and shifts happen where elements of the other timelines come into play. Orobyss portalling you to Lagon for example.

Epic music to go with it.

And no I don't mean spawning in like the normal Lagon fight, I mean the platform you fight him on phasing in and just being there right before Lagon attacks you.

And then after that phase, maybe bring Julra into the mix? Or Rahyeh?

Or Orion?

And all the while, Orobyss is trash talking you, or trying to convince you his way is better.

Sigh... I wish I could work on games...

A fun mech for Julra phase could be switching to the other side there could be another boss waiting, maybe Majasa?

[autumn kindle]

The only arpg i know what the story is about is diablo

[calm jay]

I am very shocked they've played out this timeline thing without having an alternate traveler crash through a portal at us

[autumn kindle]

I have 0 clue what last epoch or poe is about haha

[calm jay]

Timeline stuff always has a 'something, something, I'm your evil twin'

Well in the first place LE is still finishing their story

But uh

You ever play Chrono Trigger?

Well anyway instead of Diablo's soul stone, it's a time travel rock, and you're going through time to influence, or maybe more accurately deny outside influence against the timeline

[near apex]

Random thought reading the news, they need to make a video which starts with "Hi, I am Judd Cobler, Game Director on Last Epoch" 😛

[livid oracle]

6

[median perch]

1k current players, the worst I've ever seen since I started playing

[tropic nebula]

Funny enough, I wrote two news article about this same situation we're looking at.

[obtuse bay]

hello everyone 👋

[main frigate]

Good mood now because I had a 8h good sleep today

[obtuse bay]

finally a good sleep 😂

[ionic vale]

wait i saw some messages saying it might be march until season 4

is that real

i thought it’ll be really early jan???

[loud lark]

I have over 15k hours in Albion, and I can say that when SBI was bought by Stillfront the equivalent of Krafton Albion became a shadow of its prime.. completely changed identity.. And I can say the same will happen with LE

It’s only a matter of time.

[waxen sparrow]

Eh why are people so gungho on new paradox class?

It's not like this game is racing game nor have pvp

You aren't even forced to buy it nor they will nerf existing classes

As long as they don't touch existing classes just to glorify paid class then it's fine LOL 😆🤣

Tbh if paradox class allows you to mix different classes from different characters it would be awesome

[loud lark]

Tbh, if it had been announced by EHG without Krafton as the parent company, I wouldn’t care. But since it was announced after Krafton took over, I won’t support a triple‑A scam company

[waxen sparrow]

We'll just see how it goes tbh 😉

Hope they don't screw up

I think paradox class is fine

[obtuse bay]

they have comeback chance If the content is good

[polar stratus]

Yes but looking at their track record of development of the game that’s not the case

Doesn’t matter if class is good if they still don’t fix the plethora of missing content and bugs, system/engine flaws

[obtuse bay]

this is why they must use their times to give us amazing dlc and season

people say- new season might drop on january but I don't mind If they release it on february for better game

[polar stratus]

Yeah that’s not happening look at previous seasons and the long wait to pure nothing burger content.

Beneath the skies was underwhelming for that long a wait and just so shallow

[obtuse bay]

but they don't have a choice, do they? they have investor now and investor wants to get repaid

[tropic nebula]

dropping in january i think makes it doa. POE new druid class droping mid december.

[polar stratus]

They are going to get paid by morons with some sense of self attachment who buy the paradox class

[obtuse bay]

you can also watch gameplay videos and decide If its worth for money or not

[tropic nebula]

share too much of the same player base

[polar stratus]

And do you not see their funny wording on the post? If you own the game now the next expansion is free. What about the one after that?

🙂

[tropic nebula]

and right now, poe 2 as a beta has more content

[quick magnet]

The one after that isn't here yet

[obtuse bay]

poe 1&2 has more content I agree with

[quick magnet]

You don't get to start shadowboxing potential realities. That's not healthy

[tropic nebula]

which means it will be played longert

[polar stratus]

Do you not think they would have said calm down expansions will be free? and not have specified as someone who works in PR the only reason you specify is if that is going to change.

[quick magnet]

No? Because that's not some wide concern everyone is pelting them.

Everyone's hung up on this current piece of drama

The fact is, until that's a relevant situation, there's nothing for them to say. And if it comes to that, oh well. I don't have to buy what I don't want to buy.

[mild vine]

There are fewer and fewer positive messages here and on the forum. Fewer and fewer people are online. Twitch streams are of no interest to anyone. Developer news is just empty talk, with no concrete details. EHG, you gained momentary profit by getting involved with the vile Krafton, but you've ruined the game.

[quick magnet]

christ

[polar stratus]

The fact is that Krafton doesn’t even matter, the game is just an incomplete buggy mess with little content and only promise. It’s dated in gameplay and looks with no hope for improvement over 7 years.

[obtuse bay]

I am still calling it, they have B plan

If poe devs are following le, it's vice versa le devs are following poe and diablo

[shut quiver]

Sbi was bought off? When did this happen

[obtuse bay]

Idk other games but krafton has shares of pubg?

it says on wiki "PUBG published by Krafton, and developed by Krafton's PUBG Studios."

[mild vine]

I completely agree. The best thing EHG could do is completely port the game to a different engine. And finish it, yes, right now it's really just a bunch of poorly functioning features held together with duct tape. And they're cramming new content into something that's barely working and barely breathing.

[loud lark]

2020~

[quick magnet]

No one would be saying any of this if Krafton weren't involved.

[exotic solar]

I do mind that actually. Not having a schedule hurts game a lot. They somehow still not got their shit together since relaese. Why go seasonal model if you cant deliver on schedule. They could have just gone expansion/dlc every 12-18 month and we would be fine.

[quick magnet]

You're just using it as a springboard to air your grievances

[obtuse bay]

there might be many reasons... I wish I could answer this

[loud lark]

THIS

[quick magnet]

Like let's be real, no one's actually wrong about the state of the game when they complain

[obtuse bay]

yeah

[quick magnet]

It's unfinished, a bit flat, doesn't have the right pizzazz to really keep people invested for very long.

[exotic solar]

They only delivered decent seasonal content once and it took them a year to develop it.

They are not good enough to make seasonal content.

[loud lark]

What’s insane to me is that people make excuses for predatory triple‑A corpos trying to milk the community with unpolished, unfinished products. then wonder why modern gaming looks the way it does.. LOL

[quick magnet]

But this krafton bullroar has given people a wierd sort of confidence in their vitriol and are simply using it as an opportunity to pull off the filter and be as nasty about it as they can because of the stink in the air.

It masks their own foul attitude. Somewhat.

[obtuse bay]

I have a guess that, they don't have enough team to develop and maintenance current season and next season, this is why they should be recruiting more members

If I heard right, poe has 2 teams, that one team is checking current season and other team is preparing next season so they are not slowing down on content

[polar stratus]

That’s just disingenuous and malicious, having negative thoughtful and constructive opinions on development is fine, no one is witch hunting… also why are you stalwart defending bad decisions? Plenty of people were critical about every release so far, even the player numbers returning streamers prove this, the hype isn’t there and this further ruins that hype so of course people will vent all their frustrations at a slap in the face decision.

[exotic solar]

There was once a trust and mutual understanding between devs and players. A shared vision if you will. Now it is just corporote overlords and people they milk. Some people are just not avare that relationship they had was sold.

[quick magnet]

You just completely glazed over the whole "you're not wrong to complain" bit at the start to keep the argument going.

This is what I'm talking about.

[polar stratus]

You said that after and I didn’t see it

My bad

[quick magnet]

The screen didn't move, sis.

You were just quick to keep typing

[polar stratus]

No that’s not the case and there is no need to be hostile lmao

[quick magnet]

At any rate, I don't deny the game's not in a good state but Krafton's involvement came at a bad time

[obtuse bay]

judd says

To be clear, our development approach is not changing. We remain focused on building Last Epoch the same way we always have, with the same hands-on design philosophy. To support this, we are hiring across several disciplines. If you have experience that fits and a real understanding of the ARPG genre, we encourage you to apply here

but I didn't buy this, they really need more members to make content faster

[shut quiver]

I yearn for the day when ppl can have a civil discussion on any forum without making things personal

[exotic solar]

I play since 0.8.4 and almost every update post had we are hiring section. They always expanded yet failed to make something different than half working buggy mess. They only make bigger buggier mess with more people. Like they always did.

[quick magnet]

And it's given people a really brazen mindset about screaming and hollering about the things they don't like because the space is less likely to push back

[obtuse bay]

they thought they could handle it with the members, they just increased the size of snowball- now If you say this, you are completely right

[obtuse bay]

yeah

[polar stratus]

I agree that there is extremists but if you don’t have this negative pushback things could spiral very fast, its 100% not pleasant but needed

[quick magnet]

I'm lucky I don't run into the bugs people go on and on about

No it's not needed at all.

It's not changing anyone's course, despite what you think might happen

What's done is done, the fact is we simply have to take them to task about the game, not the random shit that they have to do to attempt to keep making it.

[polar stratus]

Of course it does and if it doesn’t then the developer isn’t worth supporting in the first place…

[quick magnet]

The game is in a bad state but constantly flogging the Krafton horse or an optional paid class souring your mood in an attempt to stay afloat isn't doing anyone any favors. It's just noise.

Which is helpful in some contexts but we've gone past that.

[exotic solar]

I think game lacks deeper vision. They add bunch of shallow content without any dept. Even woven echoes are looks like few hour on drawing board before production. I would like to hear your toughts on that.

[coarse swallow]

Out of curiosity, what is it you didn't buy? Do you believe we should be using AI to speed up development?

[tropic nebula]

We use AI in research to speed up tedious tasks... its a tool, not a employee

[quick magnet]

Yeah but that only applies to task you can trust it with

Creative tasks are not particularly well suited to such things

See CoD7

[tropic nebula]

you trust but verify

[quick magnet]

That's just doubling the work

You're better off just doing it yourself from jump

[tropic nebula]

you dont think they do that with people

lol

[coarse swallow]

(to be clear, i've never personally touched an AI, not even a test prompt, but i've looked into how they work)

[severe socket]

Good. Don't.

[quick magnet]

Like AI is, at best, a brainstorming tool. It's far and away unfit to produce anything of actual use to the final product.

And even that doesn't make up for the poor impact is has on everything around it. But I digress

Fact is, it doesn't make as much easier as people want to presume it can.

[obtuse bay]

the reason of recruiting members should not be to prove Krafton doesn't help with AI on development but real reason must be development time of next season because it looks like- next season and next next season will take longer time to release

[coarse swallow]

I personally agree with this approach from what I've looked into.

[quick magnet]

Yeah I just fiddle with it like a fidget toy. I don't do anything with what comes out of it.

The environmental impact is the only consistently problematic part of this and frankly, that's out of my hands.

The permissions stuff is also a problem but like on the scale of these companies trying to make a profit off it

[severe socket]

All in all, it's largely just a hazardous fad.

imio anyway.

[quick magnet]

Petty much

pretty*

[coarse swallow]

Agreed - I don't understand enough the environmental impact of AI processors in what circumstances/conditions to advocate for them.

[tropic nebula]

depends on the models youre using

we use alot of YOLO in sat imagery and spectral scanning

[quick magnet]

Basically these datacenters being built are gobbling land and power at an astronomical level that's just sort of taking it from people that need it. It's causing nasty pollution, spikes in prices, generally terrible environmental fall out in lots of ways

Iunno if I'd call it a "fad" in that sense given how much...heavy lifting it's doing atm, but it's not tenable in its current state either way