Let The Lamb Use The Tent

[bronze dagger]

Could either be an upgrade to the tent or just added as a feature later on in an update. That or maybe you have to perform a ritual that allows you to use it idk 😎

Mainly because ✨ babies ✨

Plus I mean, we can already marry and kiss followers, the next step would be being able to have a kid with em if you wanted to

Lambs kids would probably not be able to have normal things apply to them like can't be sacrificed, etc, since they're your kid and all, wouldn't make sense for the lamb to murk their own kids LMAO

It could also have its own special structure, like how the lamb has their own tent now

Maybe ^

Plus this could introduce all kinds of stuff like special fun missions from your kiddos

[tepid quiver]

i wanna make one of those things where you get people to sign it and get a bunch a signatures to add this

[bronze dagger]

Petition 💪

[tepid quiver]

THAnk you

[bronze dagger]

Plus I mean, if special followers like the bishops can use the tent I don't see why the lamb can't 💪

[vestal mesa]

It doesn’t even have to spawn a baby- it could just raise the follower’s faith a bit. Please let us use the tent!

[bronze dagger]

fr (tho i do want narilamb babies)

[bronze dagger]

I think the lamb having the ability to procreate would add to the game since you could add special missions, potentially dialogue for certain characters (like the bishops yapping about you having a kid LMAO)

Plus it'd just be funny

And also it makes sense considering what we're already able to do in the game (Marry and kiss your spouses)

Would just be a neat edition in my opinion

Plus the lamb gets an heir 💪

Lots of potential here 👠

[lean dagger]

Yeah I also feel like, the lamb's kids would be considered blessed kids/children of the gods, and should like a blessed ritual (we should have a blessing ritual where the followers put flowers on the follower you choose and then chant.

[bronze dagger]

Yeah, or they'd be like, heirs to the crown and/or crowns, we do basically take the other bishops crowns, and can put them on display in camp

I'd think considering the lamb basically becomes god

Our kids would be demi gods, especially if the second parent is a bishop

So they'd probably have the immortal trait or something

[bronze dagger]

👠

[turbid ferry]

Sozo and me need to have 50 kids your post has my approval

[bronze dagger]

Slay ✨

We need our babies BAHAHAH

[turbid ferry]

Fr

Need my abominations

[minor crater]

we need it!

[thorny valley]

YES!! I wanna have babies with the one that waits LMAO

[bronze dagger]

Narilamb kiddos

[mint goblet]

Let us repopulate our species!

[zealous plume]

why wouldn't lamb's kids be able to be sacrificed/killed? i mean, you are a cult leader after all, and even then non-cult-leader parents have killed their children before, i don't see a reason to get rid of those options

[bronze dagger]

I mean I guess but if the kid is a lamb I doubt you'd wanna kill off another lamb considering the lamb species is borderline extinct BAHAHA

[zealous plume]

oh TRUE

[bronze dagger]

Yeah LMAO

We are basically the last lamb so any babies born a lamb would be v important to repopulation

[zealous plume]

i forgot all about that bit it's been forever since i started the game and i haven't looked at the opening cutscene since 😭

[bronze dagger]

Lmao fair

[lean dagger]

Or, they should have a unique trait that gives them 20+ faith when hatched, since it's like the child of god

[bronze dagger]

Something like that yeah

[bold beacon]

Wouldn't they all be related though

[bronze dagger]

The babies would have non related spouses

So any babies they have id image would have like a certain % to have another lamb if they have kids

Or whatever

[median nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/polat-alemdar-no-horny-gif-26496618

[naive pulsar]

If Lamb uses the tent

Instead of a Follower egg
We could get a Demon egg for runs

Or we turn Lamb into a golden goose were mating with Lamb would just gives you a golden egg

[vestal mesa]

When the sins of the flesh update was announced, I think most people assumed that we would get to sin too, not just our followers

[bronze dagger]

Fr!

[bronze dagger]

Plus imagine special forms for the lamb x any of the special followers

Would be cute

[vestal mesa]

I feel like the only issue with that is it would take a long time to add to the game. I want to use the tent NOW

[bronze dagger]

I don't mind waiting as long as it could eventually happen

I can wait if we do get allowed our babies

[turbid ferry]

Lamb need more lamb

Lamb are poof only lamb left so tent fix lambless prtoblem

More lambs

After tent

Boomb

[valid kindle]

we need more lambs in our cult.

[sand rampart]

The lamb is non binary btw

[marble cypress]

I feel like this is definitely planned for a future update, but it'll have to be a story thing! I mean c'mon, there's official art teasing this!!!

[vestal mesa]

WHERE?

[sand rampart]

yeah sadly probably not

they don't really wanna give the lamb a offical gender

[bronze dagger]

Wait where?

[bronze dagger]

The lamb doesn't need to have an official gender to have kids /lh

[sand rampart]

yeah I've discussed this in general so like

[bronze dagger]

None of the followers do (aside from the bishops since their refured to as certain things)

[sand rampart]

Let me give you a reason a actual reason not some stupid reason like them being non binary

[bronze dagger]

Shamura is they/them I believe

[sand rampart]

Yep

[bronze dagger]

Heket is she/her

And the rest are he/him I think unless I'm wrong

[sand rampart]

You can read what I've talked about in general

#🐐・general message

Read this until below

[bronze dagger]

Yeah I don't think gender or lack of gender is why they haven't added lamb being able to use the tent yet /lh LMAO

[sand rampart]

Yeah

I've literally just said that in general

And discussed a more complex topic on if his son's would be demigods and wouldn't have any power because the crown is the source of power
But a mod said maybe the crown could give the new vassal(egg) some power too

[bronze dagger]

I mean we do have all the other crowns too

Give em to the kids

[sand rampart]

real

[marble cypress]

Since they play the roles as Virgin Mary and her Husband while also simultaneously being god. I've heard there's also ||some lore in a graveyard that shows up in the ? room||

But I haven't seen it yet, I'll update you when I get there

||I've heard the lore is specifically about lambs/the genocide||

Also the devs check out Wattpad lmaooo

[bronze dagger]

👀

[neat cobalt]

PLEASEdevs PELASLELSAGASDG

[stable nexus]

fr

you should be able to get more lambs

like the lamb shouldnt be the only lamb

[mild isle]

I REQUIRE SHITTENS

[bronze dagger]

Shittens 🙏

[fleet marlin]

Then there is the issue of consent and what not, though.

[bronze dagger]

How would that be an issue? Works the same way as followers, certain percentage to mate or be rejected

[fleet marlin]

Still though....

[stable hamlet]

you can literally have drunk followers mate.

the game already has consent problems

[neat cobalt]

wdym still though

[frail cargo]

Make the lamb only be able to use the tent with a follower they are married to

[frail cargo]

Mission: bring back the species.

[stable nexus]

Yea

[frail cargo]

45% chance the spouse, 45% chance the lamb and 10% hybrid.

[stable nexus]

Yea

Like we need more lamb

And eventually a lamb follower form?

[frail cargo]

And also the whole consent thing like... We're in a cult babes we kill people I think followers with a percentage to mate isn't that bad.

Literally we can make followers cannibalize their own children like.

[stable hamlet]

exactly lmao

[strong field]

Guys this is still a game for young teens, calm down, these topics are still important and shouldnt be trivialized

[smoky void]

Like they have higher chance of surviving the missionary mission

[fallen rose]

Fun killer

[strong field]

Ah yes, the fun of checks notes deciding that cult themes makes hypothetical SA okay, very cool :T

[fallen rose]

It's just a game, take that stick out of your ass

[strong field]

So just a reminder, this server doesn't tolerate making light of serious topics

[fleet marlin]

Not the smartest thing to say to a mod

Although I guess you didn't know that, seeing as you only joined yesterday

[weak ore]

💯 %, The lamb is the last of its kind after all! Let it repopulate!

[tame lark]

Lamb doesn’t necessarily have to have an egg from using the tent

Maybe it can be a spouse exclusive thing and you just get a heart from it

[vestal mesa]

I agree with this. I feel like it’s unlikely the devs would let us have kids, but we could use the tent for some sort of in-game currency instead (sin, faith etc)

[smoky void]

like to build up relationships with our spouses; but i also have the felling that eventually we will be allowed to repopulate lambkind

[dusk pagoda]

I feel like this, even if we're going with the repopulation idea, feels like cheating? Like, we are the only Lamb. Sure we can completely change the look and form of our followers, but eh. This feels like a bit much. A lamb follower form should be exclusive, not just for any follower who you take in.

[frail cargo]

Lambs should be only be from a child of the lamb.

Because like, we are the only that remains of an specie, meanwhile all other forms can be found in the wild.

[dusk pagoda]

exactly, this could also include further decedents too. But then it can get wonky with the idea of forcing our kid to do the cough cough deed with another follower, so maybe make it so you can only do it if they request it, and they'll have a buff so they're more likely to request it and have lovers too? Just to make the players life easier

[frail cargo]

Yet, it would also seem a little weird because why do kids of the leader get benefi- oh right, this is a cult nvm.

[fleet marlin]

And it gets especially wonky if we want to to the deed with a grown up child of 2 followers

[dusk pagoda]

|| maybe this was part of why we can't do it why must the deed be so wonky || Also I get cha completely. I feel weird when, right after aging up a baby, they can already go into the tent.

[frail cargo]

It's a cult y'all, why is the sex the weird part??? Be grateful at least we have to wait for them to be overage because I know some other game devs wouldn't be so... Normal.

Tho I do think baby followed shouldn't grow up and inmeadetly become adults, maybe a teen phase? Feels a little weird to see them go from baby to adult in a sec

[dusk pagoda]

But what would the difference be? Because other than the tent and maybe the bar, even with different laws for other countries, idk. It might just end up being like the Sims where teens are basically mini adults that just can't do that... Maybe they can't do certain jobs and only work for so long, before just taking the day off to hang out and give offerings?

[fallen rose]

I don't get why this would be crossing the line in any way, this is the exact same game where you can brainwash your followers and then kill dozens of them without any of them being any of the wiser.
The line has already been crossed

[dusk pagoda]

Fair fair. But why not dream of the logistics and morality of a cult? lol
Although adding a teen stage is something that should, admittingly, be a completely different thread, as it's super off topic. Sorry

[strong field]

Again, it's a game for teens, there are certain topics that can be played in a lighthearted manner and others that can't, being a 'cult game' doesn't mean common decency and sensitivity for particularly serious topics don't matter.

[fallen rose]

It's fine

[abstract cliff]

i was just gonna add a repy what are we talking about ow?

well wouldnt that defeat the reason of you being now immortal and being the god of death lambert/lambington wuld have t witness the death of his kind sooo (would love to see children but also they atre not needed

just sayin

[fallen rose]

So mass murder isn't a serious topic?
Again, the line has already been crossed.
Sozo literally dies from a drug overdose, that is dark as hell.
Sure you can bring him back, but he still died.
I really don't see your point.
Are you saying these topics aren't all on the same level?

[strong field]

Yes, fictional cartoony murder and drugs overdoses are not on the same level as the inclusion of hypothetical SA and those topics are not going to be involved in this game for teens.

[abstract cliff]

i thought it was a soul version that was trapped between the strings humanity and the spirit world and other terrifying horrors or is that just me?

talking about sozo

i feel like im about to get scolded

[fallen rose]

So why is it ok for the other followers to do it?
They never go to the tent of their own volition, only when the lamb chooses.

[fallen rose]

That's a cool idea

[abstract cliff]

thank you very much

but on another note

[strong field]

They can refuse, Thats a built in feature of the game

[abstract cliff]

cant followers ask you to be bred as a quest?

i feel like ive seen that before

[strong field]

Ye!

[abstract cliff]

ohhhh

so it wasnt a lie

my friends and me love debating over that stuff lol

i also love how i am talking to people while im doing a school project lol

[fallen rose]

So let them refuse when they mate with the lamb, simple solution.

[strong field]

I've never been arguing for or against this feature, I frankly dont have a horse in this race, I'm just saying don't say "Its a cult game" as a reason why abhorrent things should be fine in the game 👌

[abstract cliff]

can someone explain why sozo is tall sozo in the mushroom place but in our cult he is short sozo and he doesnt go away in the mushroom place so is my idea from ealrier correct then??

[fallen rose]

Maybe the parasite mushrooms inside of him stretched out his body over time

[abstract cliff]

now thats a better idea than mine

wait then how did they become parasite mushroom?

i know

that they couldve had a certain bacteria

to make them parasites

[fallen rose]

Sozo is a ant infected by a fungus

[abstract cliff]

LIKE ZOMBIE ANTS

I READ AN ARTICLE FOR THAT

[fallen rose]

Yeah that was the inspiration

[abstract cliff]

FINALLY SOMETHING USEFUL THAT I READ

[fallen rose]

It's on the wiki if you want more information

[abstract cliff]

YESSSSSSSSSSS

peanut butter

🙂

alright im going to bed yall

this was fun :]

byeee

[fleet marlin]

The wiki sucks

[dusk pagoda]

I know this, but if you have more details: please do tell?

[fleet marlin]

Very underdeveloped and almost dead

Tbh, I haven't been on it in a while

[frail cargo]

I was meaning just a visual thing, since followers take like 5 days to grow each day could be an age, first day baby, second day toddler, third day kid and fourth adolescent, final fifth day would be turning into an adult, simply aesthetic stuff like clothes and them being able to walk better or run around playing with other kids.

[fallen rose]

Playground building

Let the kids play

Just hope none of them start a game of King of the Hill

[wooden knot]

Arriving here really late to support this petition 💪

[marble cypress]

Came back to this chat to confirm the graveyard dialogue and I scroll down to find you being CRINGE TO MODS smh

[marble cypress]

Anyways, an Easter update that had new egg types and lamb babies could check both the "spring babies" and "religious aspects with Christ rebirth" boxes

[turbid ferry]

Bahhh bahh

[neat cobalt]

if they do add a kid phase, the trait that makes them more likely to fight people should become active early

you cannot acknowledge kids without acknowledging they will beat the shit out of eachother for the stupidest reasons

[wooden knot]

We could have a custom little clothe for toddlers in this idea, to differentiate them from the babies

Like a grey shirt because you're not officially part of the cult yet

Also it would be cool to have an optional ritual for when the toddlers turn into adults and enter the cult, could give some loyalty boost to everyone if you do it

[swift summit]

Letting the lamb use the tent would be pretty cool 👍🏽

[bronze dagger]

Lamb kiddos would be so cute

Especially since all babies get a bell necklace thingy

So they'd get one too

[marble cypress]

The lamb definitely cares about the children/sees them as their own since they give them the bells :')

I think the lamb just isn't ready to have their own kids without practicing raising others, and they'll be ready in a future update

[tame lark]

Yeah, Shamura was into a horse like some kind of Greek God

[tame lark]

The devs would have to make it so tall Sozo can interact with everything in the Cult. It’s much easier to have everyone the same height.

It’s why Sims hasn’t done too much with different heights.

Or maybe I’m thinking of Norse Gods.

I know some God had a thing for a horse.

I WAS RIGHT, but both Greeks and Norse Gods have done things with horses

Why

[marble cypress]

Greek gods had things for everything

[mint spoke]

ahem, being reduced to a follower.

again, this is why Narinder became small

or the bishops

he WAS tall in the first place.

[tame lark]

To be fair we do only see his head and arms. Maybe he was on a ladder.

[smoky void]

I agree with you too; they still need time so they can be ready to restore their kind to its former glory again

[abstract cliff]

nice ideas but i disagree with this

lamb is undead as hell

died bunch of times

i don't think they can have kiddos

[dusk pagoda]

I mean, true, but Narinder was the God of Death of all things and he can still have kids. ||Also might wanna use they, the Lamb is canonically non-binary /nm /lh||

[abstract cliff]

oh my bad sorry

i hc lamb to use they/he like me i keep applying that here lol

[abstract cliff]

nari's rid of the crown though

maybe the crown makes you unable to have children

[dusk pagoda]

Feels like a solid possibility, nothing there to refute it. And it also adds to Shamura giving Baal & Aym to Narinder ||Gotcha, as a they/he nb myself, totally get the hc lol||

[abstract cliff]

LOL

[abstract cliff]

yeah!!

[stable hamlet]

Literally nobody cares about the gender of the lamb realistically. It’s left blank so that you get to choose the persona and gender you put on the lamb

It’s like having a genderless Gordon freeman if that makes sense

Just realized that might come off offensive, did not intend that just wanted to say that there’s a reason on why the lamb does not have a defined gender i guess.

[fallen rose]

It doesn't count as offensive if it's a fact, if you get offended by facts you should probably see a therapist

[stable hamlet]

ay you never know with people nowadays so that's why i'm paranoid

[dusk pagoda]

Cool. I think we should probably get back on topic tho, because another thread already got locked due to this topic taking over the thread, and I feel like we really had something going here and it'd be a shame if this gets locked because of something I did as just a simple reminder to make sure that it was known and then promptly forgave the person. That was an exchange, while public, between us two that we ended...

[sick zealot]

I wasn't aware there was a canon gender for the player character? I know you said you wanted to get back on topic but I'm curious about this.

[smoky void]

maybe ??? and the crown itself will allow to the lamb make it's wish to restore it's species come true

[strong field]

The Lamb canonically has no set sex or gender, they're gender queer and thus all interpretations are equally canon!

That said please refrain from saying things like "Nobody cares about this" because we do care! Proper representation in media is very important and this server is a safe space for people of all identities! :3

[stable hamlet]

I noticed that, which is why i wrote

[stable hamlet]

This part

[strong field]

Ye Ye! Just a general reminder, nobody’s in trouble :3

[drowsy jasper]

We need a lamb follower form that can only be used on lamb babies

[bronze dagger]

Giving this a bump ✨

[night geyser]

im doing this for Narilamb im doing this for lamb descendants

[strong field]

We’ve asked that users please don’t artificially bump threads!

#🎉・news-and-patchnotes message

[tiny tangle]

So the lamb is literally me? Or something like that

[strong field]

depends what you mean

[tiny tangle]

If I identify myself as a man,my lamb is too?

Idk if I explained it correctly,English is not my main language srry

[strong field]

Nah youre good!

Your lamb would be yes, the Lamb as a character though is non binary and uses they/them pronouns 👌

[tiny tangle]

I didn’t know that! That’s really cool

[strong field]

Yeah! :D

[tiny tangle]

Another question,so the answer to this suggestion is absolutely no or there’s a possibility?

[night geyser]

Yes, i want to use the tent n stuff--

So?

[strong field]

The community manager has said that its not something they plan on changing

[tiny tangle]

That’s ok I guess,this game is for teens after all

I’m a teen but I understand that there a some things that shouldn’t be in this game

[night geyser]

...

But..

112 likes n all...

[tiny tangle]

Yeah but idk

[tiny tangle]

I guess they can make an adult only option,but I think that’s too much work

[strong field]

This server has 100,000 users so

[strong field]

There is definitely no itention of doing that

[night geyser]

Yea.

[tiny tangle]

Yeah that’s what I thought

[bronze dagger]

Oh whoops sorry about that

[bronze dagger]

Same Pffff

[opal galleon]

And even more total players

There are also many people like me who don't want the lamb to be able to have sex with their indoctrinated followers for consent-related reasons, so only going by the likes for this thread isn't a consensus

[tame lark]

Lamb should have to woo them and be rejected too if they ever incorporated this

[stable hamlet]

👍

Indeed. Also to make sure people arent abusing their power maybe if you try to murder or eliminate a follower in any way possible after they reject you it can greatly cripple your faith causing some to dissent. Also a maybe the follower can fight back sometimes

[opal galleon]

Catching up with the history of this thread, I just want to reply to this: Over-the-top cult murder is not crossing a line to the same degree as issues of nonconsensual sex due to the inherent power differential and brainwashing involved between the cult leader and their cultists, which could also theoretically include cultists that were raised since birth by the leader and thus would add grooming into the game as well.

I continue to see all-or-nothing rhetoric whenever these threads appear and it often tends to come across as disingenuous.

Telling people to simply not use the theoretical mechanic wouldn't be acceptable either, since you could make the same argument for incest then, which also rightfully isn't allowed in this game; its mere existence would cross a line, and I do not see how someone being wackily sacrificed in the game via fictional magic could be considered equally as problematic as if the game was to enable a form of sexual abuse.

And before anyone brings up the spouse argument, marriage in the game currently just involves a lighthearted ritual that isn't sexual at all, which is leagues apart from a leader and their spouse having physical intercourse; potential spouses in this game already can't even say no to marriage, so what would that say about outright sex?

[strong field]

That kind of language and treatment towards another user is completely unacceptable, knock it off

[strong field]

I'm a moderator so no you will not, if you want to remain in this server you will follow the rules.

[fleet marlin]

Holy cow, you think you're hot shit, huh?

[fleet marlin]

What did he say?

[radiant plank]

hi, just saw this thread,
so.. how about, we use the mating tent ONLY when a follower asks..
like, say theres a quest right? a follower asks to be bred, then and ONLY then can the lamb use the tent.. how about that?

[radiant plank]

also, yeah i get that, but then why add mating update in the first place? being able to have kids with a follower is sexual sure, but aslong as youre not SHOWING the.. process, then im sure its fine? If followers can mate, why cant the lamb? The update was added, why not add more to the update?

one more thing: i sorta like the idea of lambert being the last lamb, it oddly fits. And with game logic, lamb wouldnt make a lamb at all, probably a mutant at best. I dont think this update would fit entirely though, i like the idea, but it doesnt fit.. if they added it itd be ECSTATIC but, if they dont itll be fine, so yea.

[strong field]

The thing I was coming on was people trivializing genuine issues, not the concept of this thread itself.

And they added it to be like pokemon so you could optimize follower traits, simple as that

[radiant plank]

so.. should we let the players make their own pokemon

[golden lily]

technically it's not drug overdose

He dies because the fungus is a parasite

Specifically based on cordyceps

Which is also why Sozo is specifically an Ant

Because ants are the main hosts of cordyceps

But you knew that already so why the heck did you refer to it as drug overdose

[fallen rose]

That is true actually I didn't think about that.
Since the mushroom act like drugs it's kind of like both at the same time

[thick quiver]

Power differentials are an issue insofar as there's cohersion and manipulation involved, especially if the other person can't just say no and has to accept.

In real life, this can be a murky and complicated subject, with considerations about what could be lost from rejection, but in my completely honest opinion, ultimately these are adults we're talking about. Their decision to engage in intercourse with a power dynamic, so long as it's not literal r*pe or SA, is theirs to make.

The fact this is a video game with explicitly programmable behavior means we can define the lines more clearly than in real life. I think the fact that a follower can say no to whoever they choose (and the supporters here are in consensus of that being a part of this as well) does mean that followers can consent to mating, whether it's with another follower or the leader. A follower is, by statistical probability and game design, not obligated to mate with you and there is no mechanism to coherce or seduce them into it besides the lust ritual, which applies to literally everyone.

which could also theoretically include cultists that were raised since birth by the leader and thus would add grooming into the game as well.
If that's such an issue, easy fix really. Don't let Lamb mate with followers who grew up in the cult.

On a broader note, I don't really see the point in arguing about moral consistency. This game, as I see it, is very inconsistent when it comes to moral bars. That's why you always have (pardon my french) shitheads who go "lolol u can sacrifice and eat followers sooo why can't we have incest?"

From what I've seen from dev decisions it's a matter of what's considered acceptable to portray. And things like sacrifice, cannibalism, brainwashing, and yes even egg cracking are kosher because they aren't major societal issues. I guarantee you if sacrifice and cannibalism were hot topics in real life, or if eggs were literal fetuses, we wouldn't see them in game.

The question then is, is Lamb mating with followers something that would become a hot topic. I don't think the vast majority of people would look too deep into it honestly, but that's just me.

TL;DR, and the point I basically was trying to make: the extent to which your status as leader affects the chance of mating, and thus the legitimacy of consent, can literally be defined through the game's algorithm and design. Clearer lines can be drawn here than in real life.

I pose this question to all of you, but especially the people who disagree:

let's grant that yes, if it we were to add this feature RIGHT NOW, it would be cohersion/power differential/grooming/etc. What features of the system can be changed or improved such that the power balance is more... balanced?

[rare geyser]

What if the likelihood of mating included things like if you're married, how high level they are, and - AND - the number of times you've refused or failed quests from them individually.

AND brainwashed status doesn't impact chances, or maybe the lamb straight up can't use the tent when followers are brainwashed.

I think there's definitely a way you could let the lamb use the tent without it being markedly worse than anything else.

Also, things like refusing a marriage proposal or having previously damned their soul makes the follower unavailable for mating. It's a reflection of things that would realistically make someone go "no don't touch me lol"

[thick quiver]

I like these

maybe it's tied to follower faith as well

[rare geyser]

I think the chances should very much depend on the follower's individual relationship with the lamb

Like, maybe followers who have been given the skull necklace, resurrected, fed yolk, and treated well are happier and closer with the lamb. Maybe a follower whose best friend or lover was sacrificed to Midas suddenly has a chance of 5%.

[thick quiver]

that would be consistent with relationship levels between followers

enemies won't mate, lovers will, etc

[rare geyser]

Exactly!

Being worried about the messaging and theming of letting the lamb use the tent is valid, but I think the game is already fucked up enough that it could definitely be done

And if you don't want it to be something that every player is aware of, then make it a toggle in settings. Or even make it a separate add-on for Sins of the Flesh

Explicitly opt-in

[thick quiver]

I've already gave my two cents on moral bars, but even then I think this can be done without raising so many brows.

[rare geyser]

I mean, I can't blame anyone for drawing a line.

[golden lily]

Yall seriously getting pressed over this when the followers are coded to refuse if they don't want to do it

There would literally be 0 problem with this mechanic, i don't see the lamb as the kind of person to force itself on someone so like

Why?

[thick quiver]

Yeah the sexual assault claim is bogus. That's not me downplaying sexual assault that's me saying this isn't sexual assault.

There's a myriad of ways to make it clearer (if it's not already) that the followers aren't being coerced or manipulated into it, and scrapping the idea altogether instead of working through these possible issues and finding solutions seems dismissive and a bit silly.

[fleet marlin]

I could ask the same thing, why do you guys want it so badly?

[thick quiver]

Simple: lamb babies.

That's the reasoning I gathered from here at least.

[fleet marlin]

I think there's another reason....

[thick quiver]

If it has to do with "unhinged power fantasies" I'm gonna have to stop you right there pal

Not everyone here is a raving lunatic

[fleet marlin]

That's funny, because I distinctly remember a thread that wanted us to sacrifice live babies

[thick quiver]

Weren't the majority like "wtf no"

[fleet marlin]

Yep

But there was still that minority that wanted it

[thick quiver]

also that is leagues beyond what's being asked for here

"I want kids" is not on the same level as "I wanna sacrifice kids"

like, at all

[fleet marlin]

That's not what this thread is asking for

This thread is asking "I want the Lamb (player insert) to have sex"

[thick quiver]

To be fair the original message is deleted, but the majority of people supporting this speculate about having lamb children

which is reasonable, honestly

Even if OP didn't have that in mind, that's what the consensus among those who want it is

so contend with that

[rare geyser]

Bc my first follower is a blue hedgehog named Sonic and I've kept him alive the whole time and married him and I wanna make an abomination baby with my beloved husbando

Lamb babies would also be neat tbh but I feel like they'd have to code in some unique traits in order to make it a high risk/high reward venture

[thick quiver]

You concede yourself that the people who are using this game as a dominatrix fantasy is a minority. The majority of people here are normal, and just want lamb babies.

In general it's not fair to assume other people's intentions for no good reason.

[rare geyser]

But yeah, accusing people of loving sexual assault because they want a feature in a video game that is only a tiny extension of how it currently works is fucked up

[thick quiver]

I feel like if the unhinged lunatics wanted this for their power dynamic ego trip they'd just say it.

They've admitted to worse..

[fleet marlin]

No they wouldn't

[rare geyser]

There are plenty of places in the game for unhinged power dynamics

[fleet marlin]

Stop

[rare geyser]

The tent is implemented in a wholesome cutesy way (except the egg cracking lmao)

[fleet marlin]

Don't go down the "we can do a lot of OTHER evil things" route

[thick quiver]

Yeah to be honest in general I don't like the "well we can do way worse in the game" line of arguments because it just never holds.

You always have to consider what public reception would be.

[rare geyser]

Why?? The game is all about being an unhinged god who uses followers like currency for power. The tent is something they managed to make pretty mild and that's lovely, and nobody here is asking for it to become gross or grimdark

[fleet marlin]

Yeah, I'm just going to let Mello handle this one when they come back

[rare geyser]

????? I have no idea what I said that is upsetting

[thick quiver]

Regardless of whether one thing is technically worse than another, if Massive Monster adds underage sex which is technically better than sacrifice and murder, everyone would still go "wtf" and now your game is just some weirdo cringe shit Turkey Tom makes a documentary out of

[fleet marlin]

I'm pretty sure what you're doing falls under the "all or nothing" fallacy

[rare geyser]

??????

[rare geyser]

I deadass forgot that lamb is a real animal life stage and not just the name for our character

[thick quiver]

Lamb is canonically an adult lol

[rare geyser]

That actually is an argument, although the fact that follower ages are measured in years - ah yeah true

Like a grown dude being called Junior

[thick quiver]

yeah lol

[thick quiver]

@fleet marlin anyway what's your answer to this?

[rare geyser]

There's also something extremely funny about the lamb being like "ah yes I can choose anyone I want" and then seeing a field of

Chance: 5% - follower was previously damned

Chance: 10% - follower's friend was sacrificed

Chance: 7% - refused 3 follower quests and failed 1

Like yeah bro you gotta be nice to them

[fleet marlin]

Also, I feel like not doing the idea would be easier than having all of these checks to make it "consensual"

[thick quiver]

That's for the devs to decide

[fleet marlin]

But that could count under manipulative sex

[thick quiver]

We're just making the suggestion.

[fleet marlin]

You pretend to be nice to get on their good side

And then you ask for sex

[rare geyser]

I mean you have to be nice to them and treat them well to make them more amenable to being close to you. Kind of like real life, where you have to treat people well

[fleet marlin]

Yeah, but that can easily be faked

[rare geyser]

Well yeeaaaaah but it's not realistic to try and code intentions into the game

Like my love for my Sonic and Sonichu followers is real, damn it, but there's no way for the game to know that

[fleet marlin]

Still sounds iffy

[thick quiver]

You can't really say it's certainly manipulation honestly, and any accusation of such just relies on ifs and falls flat.

[rare geyser]

And if consequences is what you want, then maybe a thing where if you've been in the tent with someone they're more likely to dissent and leave the cult if you treat them poorly

To try and represent agency

Idkkkk

[fleet marlin]

Seems like to much work for the devs

[thick quiver]

Playing through a romantic vn and trying to get with a character could possibly count as "manipulation" by what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with the game itself or the character, but the player

which is unfalsifiable

[thick quiver]

again, I'd let the devs decide that

[fleet marlin]

Reminder that these are the same devs who didn't bother to add unique dialogue for the bishops if they gave you the disciple quest

[rare geyser]

Mmmmmfair lmao

I just wanna show Sonic my love

[thick quiver]

they already went through the work of adding sex in the game even though, hey, setting two people up to mate in real life would be kiiinda weird. Having a ritual that makes everyone more affectionate is kiiinda weird.

They work through hard problems and dilemmas just so the players have a better experience. Our job is just to suggest what that experience could look like.

If they take the suggestion, cool. If not, whatever.

As players who know jackshit about the codebase, we have no idea how easy or hard anything is.

I say this as a bot programmer who gets requests all the time about new features and the people who ask are never entirely solid about whether something would be easy for me or hard. It could literally be the easiest thing ever and they'd still hesitate. I rather they just be upfront about what they suggest but be reasonable about what they expect.

Reasonable as in, if I say "this will be easy" or "this might be hard," believe me

and adjust what you expect accordingly

[golden lily]

Lamb followers, also it just makes sense, what would you do if your species is almost extinct, you repopulate

[fleet marlin]

You program bots?

[thick quiver]

For my own server yeah

I haven't really made bots for other servers, not yet at least

[thick quiver]

Imagine if lamb followers went with you on expeditions and fought for you

ive wanted to take followers on missions not as a demon but as a infidel-mowing machine

[opal galleon]

I don't have anything else that wouldn't be me just pointing to what I wrote earlier for others to read since some people still don't understand what power differentials are and how that impacts consent. I understand that this might be inconvenient to people who want the lamb to be able to have sex with their cultists, regardless of why that's the case, but there's no way for said people to get around that themes of sexual abuse would inherently be unavoidable, so the themes are either downplayed or somehow dismissed outright, which is concerning.

[opal galleon]

Here's what I wrote earlier for anybody new to this thread; I'm just going to link to it from now on because it also addresses multiple arguments and I'm honestly getting tired of repeatedly writing the same stuff about this extremely serious topic that I feel sometimes isn't taken seriously enough

[thick quiver]

I've already given suggestions about how the threat of a power differential can be addressed through game design, and gave reasons why what's being recommended here doesn't constitute sexual assault and that claims that people who want this are somehow "lunatics with power fantasies" are unfalsifiable.

So, I won't repeat myself either.

[rare geyser]

it also feels a little weird to let you recruit AND FORCIBLY MARRY someone who hates your guts and was recruited under threat of death, but draw the line here

here with the various stipulations people have proposed to make the tent operate at least a tiny bit above board, at least

[fleet marlin]

Two sides to this argument, which one is right?

[thick quiver]

Instead of choosing sides we should compromise on ways to make this idea better instead of speaking over each other, honestly.

[rare geyser]

what if the lamb can use the tent but only with their spouses

and only if your spouse is sonic

[wraith vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-the-rock-eyebrow-dwayne-johnson-gif-13470485

[rare geyser]

then why does the game have blue as the second suggested color for hedgehog cultists

my sonic is 187 years old

[opal galleon]

There is no way to "compromise" on this so long as your overall goal is to make it possible for the leader lamb have sexual intercourse with their brainwashed followers to any degree. It shouldn't be allowed to any degree since it would cross a line and involve sexual abuse themes, which the developers have made clear in the past that they do not want; that's why the already don't allow for incest either, although I'm sure some people may try to argue for that with all-or-nothing logic too.

The idea of there being some middle ground along the lines of "well maybe just a little bit of a mechanic that would inherently involve themes related to sexual abuse would be fine" is not okay. We are not taking some radical centrist approach to a serious thing like this where its existence is what would be crossing the line, not just a certain extent of it existing and being possible.

[opal galleon]

I addressed this as well. Related to the all-or-nothing pattern that keeps appearing in parts of this thread, I also have to ask if you don't see there being an extremely massive leap between a cheesy and lighthearted marriage ritual to sexual intercourse between the two involved. And if the marriage can be forced as you said, what would that mean for consent related to physical sex for that forced marriage instance that you mentioned then?

[thick quiver]

You can say there's a power differential, but brainwashed? The fact there's a faith system means they don't just follow your every command; there's an expectation to keep them happy, versus brainwashing which I take to me that they just follow you even if it's to their apparent detriment.

The way I see it, id they have an equal opportunity to say no as with any other follower, and with no bonus for being leader, then by game design your status as leader has no impact on whether they say yes or no, and therefore the power differential would have no effect on their decision. This is what I mean when I say we draw clearer lines within the game, and part of why I don't think this constitutes sexual abuse.

You say "well the dev don't want sexual abuse in the game" as if we're all in agreement that this is sexual abuse, which isn't the case.

You may want to convince me that this is sexual abuse before you go down the "this is just like incest!" path.

[thick quiver]

The idea of there being some middle ground along the lines of "well maybe just a little bit of a mechanic that would inherently involve themes related to sexual abuse would be fine" is not okay.
It doesn't "inherently" involve sexual abuse. I've given my reasons why and if you'd like to refute them then please.

A power differential isn't good for any relationship and can lead to corruption if within an organization, but to go as far as to say it necessitates sexual abuse and manipulation strips away any nuance from the issue, and yes power differences are a nuanced topic.

This is what I consider abuse: coercion, manipulation, assault, harassment. If the person in a higher position uses strategies in order to pressure someone into intercourse, that would be sexual abuse. It's a choice. You're choosing to abuse and wave around your power as [whatever your position is] to get what you want. This doesn't have to be the case in game, which is why I think from a game design perspective things can be done to make it not a possibility.

[thick quiver]

TL;DR: I see sexual abuse as an ACTION, and NOT a circumstance. It can be perpetrated regardless of sex, age, status, sexuality, ethnicity, et cetera. I will say that power differences make it more likely, but it's NOT INHERENTLY that. We can design so that it's NOT that.

It's more concrete to define it this way than as a circumstance, because then it begs the questions: "okay... how MUCH power difference is SA? Can it just be within an organization? Does being more popular than someone else count as a power imbalance? Does the sober adult ability to consent not factor in at all?"

[thick quiver]

And I say insofar as no one's mentally impaired or undeveloped. That's important.

[static prairie]

I don’t understand why people keep arguing for or against this. The devs made it clear already that there are certain lines they won’t cross, and that this is one of them.

[static prairie]

It’s morally corrupt to sleep with those you have power over. End of story. It’s not an argument or debate. I’m unsure how much you know about cults in real life, but it isn’t just group living. It’s a terrible thing that leads to abuse of all sorts (which I won’t discuss in detail here).

A cult leader has an amount of power over those they’ve indoctrinated, therefore their “followers” cannot consent to sex with them, not truly. Because they aren’t equal. The other person is being coerced at best and outright forced at worst.

In the context of COTL, how do you expect the Lamb’s followers to say no if they don’t want that? The Lamb is their god, not their friend or their lover or whatever else. The ability to consent when it comes to this power dynamic is void because these people are delusional and absolutely powerless. The excuse can’t be “Well, we can kill people! because it’s done in a goofy way in game. SA is insidious and rightfully excluded from games that are meant to be lighthearted. (Not saying one is worse over the other, just talking about it from the context of fiction).

I genuinely don’t understand this. If you want to sleep with one of the characters, make a cultsona and have at it.

[static prairie]

Sexual abuse is a crime. It’s assault.

[thick quiver]

Reading quickly through this I can tell you haven't read what I said and are grouping me with everyone else. I don't have time to address this fully right now but

It's morally corrupt to sleep with those who have power over you. End of story.

Already said that. Didn't say it was sexual abuse.

I don't know how much you know about cults in real life

We're not talking about a real-life cult, and this is in the confines of a fantasy world bound together by code, which is why clearer lines can be drawn.

A cult leader has an amount of power over those they've indoctrinated, therefore their "followers" cannot consent to them.

Fair to say in real life, but again the game design can make so that it doesn't matter. If you have to manipulate someone into sex, that's sexual abuse yes. Doesn't have to be the case.

In the context of COTL, how do you expect the Lamb's followrs to say no if they don't want that?

Same system where they no to literally anyone else.

The excuse can't be "We can kill people!"

I never made this argument. In fact if you scroll up I say it doesn't hold. Fair if you're just saying this so that everyone else take note, but then again a lot of people have already shot down that line of argumentation.

[thick quiver]

Sexual abuse is a crime. It's an assault.

Did I say it wasn't a crime? Also, already said why I don't think it's assault.

If we're going to talk about this serious topic, I would appreciate it if all sides contemplate and actually read what the other is saying. If it's serious, treat it seriously.

[static prairie]

I am taking it seriously. Your arguments are just nonsensical and borderline insensitive.

[thick quiver]

I don't know, a lot of the arguments you gave I've already addressed, and you confronted me with points I never disagreed with in the first place..

I at least granted you the courtesy of refuting your response point by point

[static prairie]

I think the way you view fiction is different than the way I (and the devs actually) view it.

[wraith vapor]

Who here is saying that it isn't???

[wraith vapor]

So the power imbalance is a problem for the ficticious, consensual fun time, but it isn't when arranging a mating session between other followers (including drunk and brainwashed followers), arranging marriage along w/ the other kissing and touching stuff, the ritualistic murder, the regular murder, cannibalism, fetus eating, forced consumption of drugs/alcohol, etc. etc.?

You can't explain why any that is more acceptable w/o using the "It's a silly video game" argument again.

As long as they don't show anything and it doesn't change the age rating, I don't see why not? You're thinking too deep into this and assuming that these dynamics mean things that they don't necessarily.

[static prairie]

Oh, they called it an action rather than a crime.

[thick quiver]

I said it's an action rather than a circumstance

actions are crimes

circumstances are not

[static prairie]

You don’t know the difference between two people of equal status choosing to be together + a god hooking up with one of their goons? Also Mello has already made threads about getting rid of mating between intoxicated or high followers.

[thick quiver]

Fair.

If you're talking about fiction potential to cause real life harm. I was thinking about this and I believe if someone has it in their heart to abuse or kill people they will. They don't need a video game to tell them to. There's been a debate about this same thing about murder in video games but that's largely been debunked, and I don't see why it can't be extrapolated to other things, much less starting a cult.

If the devs made a game about cult worship, murder and sacrifice with the belief that fiction can influence people to do harm in real life then yikes. If it's a matter of portrayal, I think you can portray this without themes of coercion, manipulation, et cetera

[static prairie]

That’s not what I’m saying. Yes, I do believe fiction and reality can and do affect each other to an extent. For example, the movie “Split” influenced a ton of people to see people with DID as murderers. My point is that fictional sa has no place in a goofy game like COTL.

[thick quiver]

also if how I'm going about this comes off as insensitive, I don't mean to

[thick quiver]

and this is the part where I say for the nth time I don't think it's SA

it's a hell of a lot better position than "yeah its SA but its a GAME. there's WORSE"

[static prairie]

I’m telling you that it is. I’m not talking about your opinion.

[thick quiver]

No, that's your opinion and stance as well.

[static prairie]

It’s not an opinion. It’s an abuse of power and that’s like, objectively bad.

[thick quiver]

Hmm, do I feel like having a deontology debate in a video game server..

Also I've said it's not necessarily an abuse

[mossy epoch]

Since this post served its purpose and it keeps beinging up triggering topics we're locking it.