lore-discussion

[lusty oak]

bloodless it a man with many nails through his face. There are no visable similarities.

[restive patrol]

Those cards may also have been repurposed from an actual "Tarot Cards" system that was proposed during Early Access one one of the roadmaps, likely dropped now. (This could mean that the true deck would have served as a gameplay aspect.) https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/Roadmap_(10.10.2018)

though not many details were given regarding the system

[lusty oak]

that's super interesting. It would be cool if this is still a goal for crytek. however it may simply be accolades or even the picture being from back when "tarot cards" were still in the plans

"the cards are not real" - could be a 4th wall lore thing where the hunter speaking the words is reassuring himself with objects that portrait his achievements ie accolades.
or "the cards are not real" yet?

Whatever the case. It's interesting. too bad lore is just theories strung together with bits and bobs, and no hunt creator will confirm/deny anything cough cough

[clever bison]

Hadn't thought about the water devils and hounds not being actual supernatural entities, and gotta say i didn't think that could be the case. but you presented the evidence to back up your claim very well, and i think you've got a great theory on your hands! that Researcher journal entry was the icing on the cake. Nice thinking outside the box, @hasty raven

[hasty raven]

Why thank you

[narrow halo]

Leech filled headless hook armed monsters? Sure, that makes perfect sense

Zombie dogs? Whoah, too far, man, too far

[hasty raven]

That's not the point

The point is that Meatheads and Hives and most other monsters are well documented. Hellhounds (and to an extent, Water Devils) are not only lacking much real documentation, but are even singled out as probably over-exaggerated in-universe

Just the fact that the dedicated lore entry for the Water Devils is literally framed as a thriller series published in the newspaper is very telling

[narrow halo]

Twins and Lynch are speculated to not have existed

Yet we have William Durant who is their father

And in dark vision trailer we get the moment where they killed him

What kind of stupid theory is "Hellhounds and Water Devils don't exist"

[hasty raven]

And William Durant was supposedly killed by the twins, but is playable using things made after his death... As I said, the game we play is not a retelling of events. It's a recreation of events based on what information was pieced together after the fact. The Researcher was a Hunter and doesn't even think Hellhounds were real

[narrow halo]

Too bad devs don't care about the lore so that stupidity can not be refuted

[hasty raven]

You're just being an asshole now

[narrow halo]

You're jumping to conclusion because somebody in the lore says "Doubt hellhounds existed"

[hasty raven]

'Somebody', the Researcher. A playable character, that you can play as while killing Hellhounds and Water Devils.

[narrow halo]

Doubt it was Black

[hasty raven]

What?

[narrow halo]

Harold Black is the name

Of the researcher character

[hasty raven]

I know. You doubt that the Researcher is the Researcher?

[narrow halo]

I doubt he's the only researcher in the whole wide world

Researcher's insight into the Assassin
Undated

The arrival of the Assassin marks a surprising turning point in the Louisiana Case. Before its arrival, the entity's major aspects were certainly formidable combatants, though designed for other purposes. The humanoid Assassin seemed especially sculpted to shock humans, and destroy them.
Accounts of such a creature are similar: that of a tall humanoid figure who can seemingly melt into a swarm of insects. Whether or not this is the result of trickery, or actual physical transformation, is debatable. Though with all things relating to this case, I am inclined toward belief in the most outlandish and bizarre theorizations one day, and incredulous the next.

Of this, I've noted a remarkable pattern in its behavior. The Assassin seemed capable of remarkable feats. Chief among them, the ability to split into several (three) manifestations of itself. These manifestations would function as a distraction, attacking hunters independently, while the true Assassin would use the opportunity to find the right moment to strike.

Thankfully, Harold Black preserved much of what we know. His encounter with the Assassin seems to have forged him into the man we revere today.

In

This researcher even mentions Black

That proves these are two different people

Of course, It could always be a third researcher with his own insight

But I doubt it

So most likely this researcher researches lousiana event without having participated in it

His account, in typical Blackian fashion, seems indirect by modern academic standards. Indeed, he does mention his failed career as a writer, and his inability to inform clearly seems to affirm this.

[hasty raven]

Right, so Harold Black knew Tamrat Scognamiglio, and this nebulous other Researcher knew Scognamiglio. Harold and Tamrat worked together in researching the Armored, and this other Researcher works with Scognamiglio and Collins, seen in the Water Devil entry. So if Hellhounds were real, why do none of the people he works with give any account of them?

This Researcher must have been alive while Harold was, since they both work with Scognamiglio. Why is there no documentation from Harold, Scognamiglio, or others on Hellhounds or Water Devils? The Researcher even says that the 'fictionalized version of the [Water Devil] tale' is the only surviving source. Why would they need to rely on "surviving sources" if they were working alongside people actively participating in Hunts and researching the infected?

I feel like this supports my case more.

In a game whose storytelling is so built upon the principles of unreliable narration and incomplete information, a character working alongside people participating in the Hunts to gather knowledge saying that something was likely sensationalized means something

The devs wouldn't just push the idea that the information is very unreliable so hard for no reason in a game with this kind of lore

Even Tamrat Scognamiglio, the most supernaturally-minded of the researchers, wonders about the distinction between accruate first-hand accounts and mere stories

The first mastery entry of the Water Devils is a note from Hayden Collins, who wrote the, quote, "fictionalized version of the [Water Devil] tale". The note he wrote reveals that the story was not his own, but instead told to him by a random, scarred Hunter, telling the story of how he got said scar

Not only is Collins frequently questioned in his reliability as a source throughout the lore, but it's a fictionalized retelling of a retelling of events by someone who could very easily be embellishing the origin of his scar to seem cooler

I'm glad I got some criticism for my theory, actually. It caused me to examine the evidence even deeper, which only served to strengthen it, and led me to learning new things like the researcher in the Monstrorvm=/=Harold Black

[clever bison]

It's why we've got this discussion channel :D

[narrow halo]

🤦

[earnest jungle]

So a word of note we believe the unnamed researcher is the same researcher from the custom ammo lore it is not exactly clear though.

[hasty raven]

Such a detailed and reasonable rebuttal

[hasty raven]

RN? Interesting

[earnest jungle]

So we think that the Researcher is writing about these events after the fact, looking back gather notes and performing interviews on surviving hunters.

[icy brook]

I never could tell if Harold Black was an independent researcher, or an associate of the AHA, can anyone say for certain

[noble scarab]

Both I think, cause he seemed to be independent at first and then he seemingly joined up with the AHA as a research partner/hunter

[hasty raven]

He definitely is, but that doesn't change the fact that he's working with other people with the goal of research who were studying specimens from Louisiana first-hand or even partaking in Hunts themselves

It just doesn't make sense to me how none of the other information-seeking people that he worked with who had experience within Louisiana at the time never saw or documented Water Devils or Hellhounds (as depicted in-game), and that the only record of these Water Devil stories is a dramatized retelling of a retelling of events from a guy explaining his scar, who would have all the reason to exaggerate for clout

The many feral dogs that roamed in Louisiana at the time or any number of water-dwelling creature could still have been under the Sculptor's influence to a degree, of course. Water Devils could be a blanket term describing things that attack in the water, and the lack of certainty in their physical description is because of the murky water and panic those encountering them would face

unrelated but does anyone else wonder how Meatheads make pig-like noises..? That might be an embellishment as well

[abstract trellis]

I always figured it was more leech noises coming from the sheer amount of them inside its body. They sound a wee bit similar.

[wet sparrow]

Wait

Wait

[hasty raven]

They do sound similar but the sounds coming from the Meatheads, especially the Butcher, are bassier (I think that's the word)

[wet sparrow]

Leeches make noise?

Godamn

[abstract trellis]

At least in the game they do

[hasty raven]

when they detect you and spit poison they shriek to attract the Meathead

[abstract trellis]

If they attack the squeal

[clever bison]

A modern description of the Water Devils would be easy
"Those dreaded hentai tentacle fuckers were coming after me"

Yee, the leeches make a squeal that sounds similar to a pig

[sleek crest]

WTF is the sculptor anyway

[bold tiger]

@sleek crest Big bad of the current problem, not the big bad of the entire hunt world

[wind echo]

@bold tiger Who's the big bad of the entire hunt world?

[bold tiger]

No clue, probably some demon who can't wipe its own butt from another dimension and the flakes that fall from it as it bicycles to its demon workplace are things like the sculptor

Basically cthuhlu

[empty owl]

it could be just the sculptor

it could even possibly multiple sculptors

[hasty raven]

All I know is that there are multiple entities that are and have invaded all over the world, and the Sculptor in Louisiana is apparently abnormally powerful compared to the others

[empty owl]

funny thing from the wiki i just saw regarding a person with the last name hardin

"Selman was on trial for the murder of notorious outlaw John Wesley Hardin at the time of the incident in El Paso."

the odd thing being, if it is the hardin it would be odd considering his title as a sheriff

oh wait

its wayne hardin

oooooh

[sudden glacier]

I'm gonna assume they're related

[empty owl]

they possibly are

[inner goblet]

I just posted on reddit about the lifecycle of the moth in case anyone here is interested https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/owucrs/hunt_showdown_and_the_lifecycle_of_the_moth/. Not sure if this has been discussed before.

[hasty raven]

That's interesting

I think there's something to this

[icy brook]

Mothman boss in the works

[restive patrol]

your theory is spot on, as the devs did discuss how humans transform into monsters on an Extra Life Session from when the game was about to hit Early Access. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga34IHKdVMU (Keep in mind, this was before some of the lore was retconned)

[inner goblet]

Haha ok awesome. Thanks for sharing that.

[hasty raven]

So they say the Armored are in the cocooned state

but they also say that Meatheads and Hives come from Armored...

so clearly that part at least is very out of date

So all of the worms that are inside Grunts, replacing their blood, are like the larvae, and that would make the Armored pupae...

Or the Armored are just covered in the same stuff as cocoons to serve as a line of defense like the Monstrorvm suggests. Or they are the 'adult' form

Maybe the people that get 'cocooned' on the walls are either transformed into Armored or the orange 'eggs'

Actually, maybe the Armored really are just 'pupa' and they do still transform into Meatheads and Hives (and Immolators?) eventually, that would explain how so many copies of the original Meathead and Hive appear. Once they were created, they were 'assimilated' as a template of sorts

There's a lot of ways it could go

[inner goblet]

Yeah and who, or what, lays the eggs?!

[icy brook]

I have always wished we could see an armored in the transitional stage of their infection, like a light armored or hardened grunt

On a separate note I hope Cain gets some more lore soon, I think his falling from grace arc into a crackhead caveman is super interesting

[nocturne dome]

Nope

Meatheads come from hunters

At least I think they do

Idk how they transform into the leach abominations

[hasty raven]

Why do you think that?

[nocturne dome]

I'm pretty sure it's said that they're the offspring of hunters

Hence why they banned women for a time

[hasty raven]

The first one came from a woman who was pregnant/impregnated as a Hunter and the stuff they use to inoculate you turned the baby into a Meathead and gave the mother some powers, then the AHA says that more instances of the Meathead had begun springing up after that, like how the Hives started appearing after the first Hive was created and they're all copies of the first

[merry rune]

if a pregnant woman is infected a meathead is born

[hasty raven]

No, it's if a pregnant woman becomes a Hunter/a Hunter is impregnated

So it wouldn't make sense for a ton of Meatheads to suddenly appear after the first instance, since the first instance banned women from becoming Hunters, unless the Meatheads were all just copies like the Hives and, assumedly, Immolators

Women are only allowed now because the serums developed after the Meathead incident were made so that they prevent conception

So yeah, I reread the final Meathead entry and only one was ever created, yet the AHA director calls for the destruction of 'it and its brethren'. There's no way enough Hunters were pregnant or got pregnant to account for all of the Meatheads before measures were put in place

Yes, the second part of the director's letter confirms that only three women Hunters were around when the first Meathead was born, and the first Meathead's birth is what led to women being banned until the sterilizing serum was invented. They must all be copies of the first

[rotund ferry]

Walks in

Walks out

[rapid gate]

good plan

[sleek crest]

Wait, why would being a Hunter affect your reproductive process?

I thought Hunters just hunted the occult, not that they are part of the occult…?

[narrow halo]

Well, that dlc chinese guy's father was a hunter

So I assume they aren't sterile

[hasty raven]

it is literally stated that the new serum made conception impossible, for one

for two, he could have conceived Xiao Feng before becoming a Hunter

for three, it might only make females barren, and his mother might not have been a Hunter

[sudden glacier]

alternatively, not all hunters are sterile

and the serum is just for those who are

[hasty raven]

and fourth, he was a Hunter in a different event somewhere in China. It's possible that the way the incident in China works has no effect on pregnant Hunters

[hasty raven]

What do you mean?

[sudden glacier]

I fucked up my wording because I'm tired

[hasty raven]

The director of the AHA announced that, after the first Meathead was born and women were banned so no Hunters could get pregnant again, they developed a serum that sterilized Hunters without the Hunters' knowledge so that no more pregnancies would happen

And then they finally spilled the beans on it when copies of the original Meathead began cropping up

like how the first Hive was created and then suddenly Hives were appearing everywhere, all duplicates of the same person (but oddly enough, varying in skin color and clothing, which lends to the theory that Armored are 'cocoons' of people that eventually become copies of the original Meatheads/Hives/Immolators)

[sudden glacier]

Immolators

[hasty raven]

I believe the Armored being sort of pupae that mature into the other special monsters is the case, since the devs explicitly stated it was the case

[hasty raven]

Well I doubt enough priests were beaten to death in a swamp to produce all of the Immolators in Louisiana, and the Meatheads and Hives are all already copies of the original, so it seems reasonable

I'm only 3/5 of the way through the Immolators in the Monstrorvm though so I'm not going to say with certainty

[sudden glacier]

I really don't like Immolators

they're the second most annoying thing about this game

[hasty raven]

Immolators and Hounds, the two posterboys of ambushing you at the worst time

[sudden glacier]

I don't understand how a person whose bones are visible can be mord difficult to kill than a grunt

[hasty raven]

Do you mean Hounds or Immolators? I didn't know Immolators had exposed bones

[sudden glacier]

immolators... and you can see their bones quite clearly

they should also bring back the death in water

[hasty raven]

well I haven't paid particularly close attention to the finer details of the flaming monsters sprinting toward me and thrashing at my face

[sudden glacier]

that's fair

I regret googling immolator

[hasty raven]

why?

[sudden glacier]

rule 63

[hasty raven]

[nocturne dome]

I'm pretty sure it's just the female hunters

[hasty raven]

Why?

Just the females are sterilized or just the females need to be sterilized?

[fallow gorge]

Just the females are sterilized

[hasty raven]

I don't think there's any info one way or the other

[fallow gorge]

Pretty sure it's stated in the meathead entries

[hasty raven]

it's stated that the serum sterilizes you, I don't think it specifies just the women

just says it prevents conception

[junior pecan]

The issue was with women, it need only sterilize them

[nocturne dome]

If the issue was all hunters

Let's be real, 1895, bunch of guys who are going to die anyways, filthy rich af

The amount of meatheads would be insane

The entire world would fall

[hasty raven]

you're right about that

though it might still sterilize males and females just for good measure and/or it's easier to sterilize both in the same shot than target a woman's reproductive system specifically

[noble scarab]

in regards to the immolators, its sorta alluded to that there were more than one immolator that was created. sure there were plenty of copies of the 1st one, which we have the lore on, but it also alludes to there being others, so we might be looking at multiple copies of different preachers turned immolators.

[sleek crest]

However, if the AHA disclosed the fact that they developed a serum to sterilize them in order to prevent the creation of more monsters and then those monsters showed up anyway

It stands to reason that they would discontinue the serum

Because it obviously didn’t work

[junior pecan]

It did, the meatheads are clones like the others

[sleek crest]

Yeah, but the goal was to prevent the new monster type from propagating, and that failed

[junior pecan]

Also to keep people from dying negligently

So its still worthwhile

[clever bison]

Nice reddit post @inner goblet !

The old loading screen is a cicada, though, not a moth. But all your points still stand and were well thought-out

[icy brook]

Yeah all the creatures minus grunts are clones of some original, the sculptor just happens across things it finds interesting or particularly useful and molds copies

[hasty raven]

Yeah, they wouldn't just drop all measures to prevent a new Meathead incident since the first one got copied. Not only did the Hunter that got pregnant give birth to a monster that killed two men straight out the womb, but she also got crazy powers and went insane, which is also dangerous

[stoic leaf]

What’s in the vials that some hunters have strapped to their chest?

Here’s a good pic of one on the ronin, a lot of the default skins have it too

[icy brook]

They could be to enclose bounties

[stoic leaf]

Ooh could be

[hasty raven]

It's interesting to note that the Grunts are the only creatures categorized as 'infected', but the other human-derived monsters are all 'marked', which I think means they're the ones that were copied from an original

[stoic leaf]

I was thinking snuff used for dark soght or something for banishing

[hasty raven]

And the two creatures that are explicitly stated to be the most unlikely to have actually existed are also in their own category (herds), but that's probably a coincidence

Hmm, I'm thinking, maybe Hellhounds are copies of an original pack of Hellhounds as well... that would explain the spiked collars and armor and how they're all the same breed (Italian Mastiff, Tamrat suggests)

But that would contradict the information from the Hellhound Monstrorvm lore. What's the point of telling us about how a ton of random dogs escaped into the bayou if Hellhounds are all just copies of an original pack of mastiffs..?

[clever bison]

I just know that those Hellhounds with helmets on are the bane of my existence

[hasty raven]

Especially Bunny's owner's diary, since he was a german shepard. Very different breed and build than that of the Hellhounds, and he never equipped him with spiked collars and armor

So I'm not sure. On one hand, it'd be an interesting theory that the Beast Hunter was involved in the creatuon of the original Italian Mastiff pack with spiked collars and armor who got copy/pasted by the Sculptor, but on the other hand, that would make all of the Hellhound lore we're given pointless, wouldn't it?

If Hellhounds are all copies of an original pack, maybe the Beast Master had a pack of Italian Mastiffs as his pets wearing the spiked collars before the Louisiana incident, but when the Sculptor's infection began, his dogs were turned which caused him to flee Louisiana. That would explain why he had those nightmares about them which made him go back and try to tame them. There isn't really an explanation for why this random dude gets visions of Hellhounds that drive him to go and find them, even try to tame them for some reason

The helmets could have been an attempt at getting them to stop biting, like what the cages on some Grunts were probably for

The Beast Master's attire matches the aesthetic of the Hellhounds' collars and stuff too

But again, if Hellhounds are all copies of an original pack of Italian Mastiffs, that'd make all of the Hellhound Monstrorvm entires irrelevant

So I still believe it's much more likely Hellhounds didn't really exist as they're presented in game, just being regular feral dogs that got blown out of proportion. However it may be possible to marry the two ideas

The Hellhounds we see in game may have been a real pack of infected Italian Mastiffs, possibly previously the pets of the Beast Master, but they were never copied by the Sculptor or anything. The roaming pack of demonic dogs became a legend among Hunters, and more and more Hunters began to claim they ran into them when in reality they ran into more typical feral dogs

So the true story of the one pack of infected Italian Mastiffs (possibly once owned by the Beast Hunter because that theory is really interesting) was gradually exaggerated until it was believed they were the norm

And since the game we play is basically just a reconstructed story based on the scattered information gathered after the fact, Hellhounds are apparently commonplace when in reality they were just one pack that got way overblown

But even if we combine the overwhelming information pointing toward Hellhounds being based exaggerated regular feral/infected dogs with the theory that they're based on just one pack, I still feel like the Monstrorvm lore is a little pointless. It says absolutely nothing about zombified, demonic, armored mastiffs

I think I'll stick with the belief that Hellhounds were originally just one particularly strong and intimidating pack of feral and possibly infected Mastiffs that used to belong to the Beast Master, but the story of that pack was exaggerated to the point where they were thought to be commonplace, despite the fact that it kind of makes the Monstrorvm lore lackluster

It explains enough in a cohesive and interesting way

[narrow halo]

🤦

So many theories to make and this one goes with "LUL HELLHOUNDS ARENT REAL"

I just can't

Ugh

[sudden glacier]

perhaps if you used an actual argument or discussion against them you could get them to change their theory instead of "🤦"

[narrow halo]

Common sense?

[ocean linden]

Hellhounds are real tho

The first confirmed hell hound was because of one hunter’s hound Bunny succumbing to the infection

Although there are letters you can find talking about earlier hellhounds too

[restive patrol]

most notably, there's a drawing of one in Fort Carmick, which could indicate that the infection had begun to take root way earlier than 1895.

[ocean linden]

Yeah

[clever bison]

Constructive criticism. There we go

[rotund ferry]

What’s the lore behind explosive ammo?

[earnest jungle]

Custom Amo was created and introduced into the Bayou by Victor Caldwell after he destroyed Huff's army of mental patients and armory/

[icy brook]

It’s pretty interesting that the devs gave us the name of the new map all the way back in December, DeSalle’s silence must be Lewis DeSalle’s rifle, before his bother murdered him of course

[eager viper]

"A vagrant known as the tin-man rattled around the city with a large bag of cans, harmless until a malicious Hunter threw them into the bay. Able to save but a few, he decorated his Winfield M1873C Silencer with the remainder, and set out for revenge – silent as a whisper. "

Who else wants to see the Tin-Man make a legendary appearance? Or any other lore legendary suggestions?

[narrow halo]

Lynch and Twins

[eager viper]

Thats what i was thinking too, would love to see the Lynch twins. There needs to be more female Legendaries.

[narrow halo]

There are no Lynch Twins, there are McGowan twins and Lynch

McGowans are at least sympathetic

Lynch is not a good person

Probably isn't even human

Don't tell her I said that

[icy brook]

Still waiting on this legendary

[nocturne dome]

Pretty sure the event started in 1890

Unless I misread something

[eager viper]

@narrow halo I was mistaken, i thought Josie and Fina were Lynch twins, but Lynch just killed their mother?

[noble scarab]

Didn’t their mother die in childbirth?

[eager viper]

Its implied that their father killed their mother,

[noble scarab]

u right, i'd forgotten that bit

[empty owl]

its the black coat who killed their father i believe

[noble scarab]

he killed their uncle

[empty owl]

and lynch took them in

oh yeah

[noble scarab]

lynch found them and they became hunters

[empty owl]

also i believe hellhounds are real and was created prior to the beast hunter's arrival

he did came to the bayou to put his nightmares to rest and is possibly not a local

[icy brook]

^

[empty owl]

but he does hunt primarily large animals so he could have somesort of an experience with dealing with the sculptor's animal creations elsewhere on the United States

[noble scarab]

we only have a few actual "local" folks as hunters

which is kinda neat

[icy brook]

[empty owl]

i think hardin and the priest is the only few locals we have

that and the redneck

sigh

[noble scarab]

Dr John

[icy brook]

“I was born in this barn and I’ll die in this barn ol son”

[empty owl]

john is non local

[noble scarab]

thought he was from New Orleans

[empty owl]

he's from senegal

[icy brook]

^

[empty owl]

and then came to nola

[noble scarab]

true, he's been there for awhile tho, possibly making him one of the oldest hunters. Also maybe the revenant, since he at least died in Desalle

[empty owl]

could probably so

[noble scarab]

i'd hoped we'd have gotten the revenant's grave in Desalle, but i guess he'd been buried elsewhere

[empty owl]

even if we do see his grave, it would've been desecrated already

[noble scarab]

should still be recognizable based on the trailer footage of it

unless that wasn't the canon location

[empty owl]

and since john is implied to have a role in his re-animation

i guess its more or less filled with voodoo thingajamjigs

[noble scarab]

might be somewhere in Nola then

wonder if Desalle had fallen before or after he died

[empty owl]

i suppose he was buried in an unmarked grave or atleast something cheap

and it can't be the church since its filled to the brim with mausoleums

[empty owl]

could possibly prior to that

he could even died prior to the whole louisiana event taking place

[empty owl]

also coming off of this, different breeds of dogs doesn't mean they are immune to their transformations to being the hellhound

also, since its a german shepard it would be significantly more dangerous than the italian mastiffs that we encountered in game

[noble scarab]

might be hunters brought dogs into the bayou to help them hunt, then those dogs died and got turned into hellhounds

given all the defensive gear they got

the ones with muzzles on just died before they could get their's taken off

the spike collars are designed to prevent/deter throat injuries, which is whats used on herding dogs, to protect them from wolves, so it couldve been that those mastiffs were brought in with gear on to help fight the german shepherd variants

then like everything else, that plan ended up with the sculptor being able to use them for the "base" model

[empty owl]

also come to think of it

[bold tiger]

Pretty sure the lore got changed

Bunny got changed to a mastiff I though

[empty owl]

i think the german shepard breeds was turned but was put down fast enough for the sculptor to not copy it competely

also the sculptor has a tendency to overestimate and underestimate its subjects

the prime example being the redneck as he is either too stupid or too stubborn to be turned

[noble scarab]

bunny is still a GS

on another note, this guy's journal also does confirm that at least there's few to no gators, which supports the idea that water devils did exist

[bold tiger]

The water devil lore days some survived doesn't it

After the story or in the researchers notes

[empty owl]

the gators themselves were either eaten alive by the water devils during the earlier stage of the event or moved on to a more stable place in the swamp somewhere else

and considering the food chain, i suppose they did the latter

the surviving ones atleast

either that or they got turned by the sculptor to be assimilated into something else entirely different that we haven't seen yet

also come to think of it, the sculptor turned animals that only has a proficiency to be aggressive to humans

chickens, horses, and god knows what they got in those other kennels seems to be not affected at all

come to think of it they looked like coyotes

other livestocks such as cows were probably butchered to make supplies during the earlier stages or were eaten alive by the grunts

[hasty raven]

That does not necessarily mean the Water Devils as presented in the game. The legend of the worm-like Water Devil had to have come from somewhere, and all kinds of waterlife that's easy to misinterpret, especially intentionally for bragging, could be the source.

Like the Hellhounds, there is too much effort put in by the devs to draw attention to how fantastical and unsubstantiated the evidence of Water Devils is. To take the appearance and idea of the Water Devils and Hellhounds as presented in-game at face value is to disregard those huge points in the lore

[empty owl]

the hellhounds have somesort of a christian theme to it

much like the immolator but taken to the next level by being a former priest

the water devils has no further background or legend to be provided further

[hasty raven]

I'm not sure if you guys read my big wall of text I made considering all of the possibilites to explain Hellhounds, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, but if Hellhounds are simply all copies of an original group of Mastiffs (explaining the consistent build and inexplicable armor and gear they wear), that'd contradict the entirety of the Hellhound's Monstrorvm, which details two researchers (Tamrat and the one that gives all of the insights) postulating on how the story of Hellhounds came to be from the minds of braggart storytellers, a collection newspaper snippets about large amounts of random dogs getting loose into the bayou, and a three-part diary of a guy who's german shepard (very different build to the Hellhounds, not wearing any of the gear, and not being nearly as zombified as the Hellhounds) that was among the dogs that got loose and went feral in the bayou.

[empty owl]

from all we know they just suddenly appears one day and nearly put the local alligator population in jeopardy

[hasty raven]

Even through the design philosophy lense of Hunt's 'unreliable narrators and barebones information' storytelling, completely disregarding the heavy emphasis put on the unlikelihood of the Water Devil and Hellhounds' actual existence would be bad storytelling

Reminder that the entirety of the Water Devils' backstory is a dramatized retelling of a retelling of events by a Hunter telling the story of how he got a scar, something he could easily and very probably make up and exaggerate for clout as Hunters are repeatedly stated to have done

And that the entirety of the Hellhounds' lore doesn't explain anything beyond the amount of feral dogs in the bayou and the chance that they may have gotten infected, and 1/3 of it is dedicated to doubting the validity of their existence

It's way too much doubt presented toward both of their existence to ignore. The writers are trying to tell you not to take their appearance and backstories at face value

Since the Hellhounds can't just be copy/pastes of an original pack to explain their consistent build and equipment across Louisiana without disregarding a massive chunk of their lore, if we really must assume they existed and weren't just normal feral/possibly slightly infected dogs, then I created a headcanon that the Beast Hunter once owned them before the outbreak in Louisiana that he fled from, which would explain their gear as they were guard dogs before being turned and the Beast Hunter's obsession with them. Hunters probably encountered this extremely intimidating pack of dogs and spread the story, along with any embellishments along the way, until the idea of huge, vicious dogs wearing brutalist armor and bearing both fangs and bone through blood-red, sickly hide became the norm and was assumed to be the average during the Louisiana incident

But just going off of all information we're given, there's no real reason (and plenty of encouragement not) to assume the Hellhounds depicted in game were anything more than average rabid dogs that may have been slightly affected by the infection who got blown way out of proportion

Same with Water Devils, which could have been literally anything

[clever bison]

Now I wonder if we're gonna get a gator boss

[solar monolith]

I don't know

what I've figured, and I could be wrong

is that the bosses that the Sculptor Creates/corrupts all have a purpose

Butcher feels like the Collector so that the sculptor can create more enemies(?)

Dont really know how Spider fits in

Assassin Was created as a Response to The Hunters Disturbing his plans

and Scrapbeak Is another Collector

maybe because The Rate at which we are Killing the bosses Is Disturbing His supply chain or something?

And the Water Devils Seem to have a pretty good grasp on the rivers and lakes

and unless we get maps that are half sunk in the water

or have the space for A big ol gator

[junior pecan]

The sculptor’s capacity for cloning and their apparent lethality means it is highly unlikely that they are just typical packs of dogs. That, combined with the apparent body horror of the non-anthropomorphic corruption present in the bayou (something that would be worthless to boast or brag about) means that their appearance is entirely justified and believable.

So to put it simply, anything more typical than the still unexplained infestations is entirely believable, and probable

Its best we don’t go down the path of selective evidence, as until the custom ammo update we literally had no proven information whatsoever.

That being said, you can use select evidence to propose a theory, as long as disregarded evidence is mentioned as disregarded, and accepted as having the potential to be true.

[rotund ferry]

I think the spider serves as an example of the sculptor’s power

Like it was the sculptor saying “wassup bitches lookit what I can do”

[hasty raven]

It's not a discussion on whether or not they could have existed, the point is that the lore specifically written for the Hellhounds is very intent on telling you how unlikely it is they did exist, and instead of providing examples of the actual Hellhounds seen in the game, it provides examples of normal, or at least relatively normal and potentially infected, feral dogs

As with the Water Devils, it's important to notice that the researcher who gives the 'insights' and is the one who seems to have composed the Monstrorvm worked alongside Tamrat Scognamiglio, Hayden Collins, and Harold Black. All three were people trying to gather information of the Louisiana incident, except unlike the researcher who composed the Monstrorvm, they were active in the field (to different extents, Harold Black even being a Hunter). It's just really strange how the Monstrorvm composer has to rely on 'surviving information', with the Water Devils' proof being extremely dubious and the scraped-up information trying to document Hellhounds not actually describing Hellhounds as they're presented in the slightest

Hayden Collins, Tamrat Scognamiglio, nor Harold Black had a single first hand account of these creatures that are apparently relatively common in the bayou to back up the claims of their existence

I just prestiged and haven't played a single match yet so I can't look directly at the Monstrorvm right now unfortunately

and I don't like using the pinned documents because they're extremely outdated and inaccurate... the 'named characters in the lore' document lists Bunny as an Italian Mastiff when he was a German Shepard, and says his status is 'unknown' when he was shot to death in the final entry

[junior pecan]

Im not arguing they could have existed, I’m saying logic is more reliable than any existing narrator or researcher, and logic dictates a high probability of some sort of mutated dog being at play, particularly one capable of killing men.

[hasty raven]

What logic dictates that? Both non-human-derived monsters are extremely questionable in terms of the evidence for their existence. Wouldn't logic dictate that, when presented with deliberately dubious sources and the doubt of the characters themselves by the author, that the subject is not supposed to be taken at face value?

Logic would dictate, based on the fact that the only monsters with actual documentation are made from humans and the ones that have little to no real proof are non-human, that humans are the only ones affected by the disease to such an extent?

I believe it's entirely possible that dogs can be infected of course, but not to the extent of suffering from the same effects as humans. After all, there is no documentation of dogs or any other animal 'metamorphosizing' like infected humans do. No dogs are cocooned, no dogs develop the same beehive-like material on their body, and most importantly, dogs that Hunters bring with them to the bayou don't have to get inoculated to resist the infection

Even if they did turn into zombified, glowy-eye italian mastiffs from being infected, that doesn't explain the armor and stuff they're equipped with. And if they're all copies of an original Hellhound pack (ignoring the fact that dogs do not get cocooned in order to metamorphose into a copy, and they couldn't just grow spiked collars and metal helmets), that would totally invalidate the Monstrorvm lore of the Hellhounds. If they're all just copies, what's the point in dedicating 1/3 of the entries to casting doubt on their existence?

Looking back, even Bunny just... had rabies. Thick mucous, not present at all on Hellhounds. What's the point in including a diary of a man losing his dog in the bayou only to imply that he was just rabid?

Bites and cuts all over is a far cry from the Hellhounds burnt-looking, nearly skeletal monsters that Hellhounds are supposedly

[junior pecan]

Yes but not when such sources are the only available

[hasty raven]

what

What are you replying to exactly

[narrow halo]

That your theory is stupid

[hasty raven]

your insult doesn't make sense contextually

[narrow halo]

Your theory doesn't make sense at all

[hasty raven]

explain

[narrow halo]

You see them in the game

You get information that hunters tell about hellhounds

You get a short documented tale of zombie dog

The guy in lore say "I doubt they exist though"

And you go "aha that means they don't exist!"

The same with water devil

[hasty raven]

you can also play as William Durant using weapons made after he was murdered, so

gameplay isn't canonical

[narrow halo]

And what's worse, people dignify it with a response

That's the worst

[hasty raven]

The fact that I'm still dignifying your needlessly aggressive, schoolyard-level critiques with an attempt to be rational is ironic

[narrow halo]

I say it how it is

[icy brook]

Gameplay is not canonical but rather clippings from the Hunt universe, all the pieces exist but are arranged differently through the player’s perspective, thus explaining canonically dead characters in game, random object locations, and possible doubles of characters and weapon skins

[hasty raven]

That's exactly the point, the gameplay is a reconstruction of pieces, pieces of the past. It's reconstructed from what information is gathered from after, pieced together, including every unverifiable tall-tale that was spread so much that it's unknown whether it was fact or fiction

[icy brook]

It’s kind of like the anthropological concept of true fiction, every retelling of account of a story is biased to some extent, but generally are reliable due to recounts being our best source of information regarding events

[hasty raven]

Both truth and lies are all roped in together because some are difficult to tell apart. The legend of Hellhounds and Water Devils just got so widespread that, despite lacking actual documentation and reliable accounts, the researchers have to at least consider it for its prevalence

Could the Butcher really sling flames from a perpetually white-hot hook, or was that made up to impress the audience of whoever was telling their story? Did swarms of screeching, bloodthirsty leeches really manage to overrun the entire bayou (somehow without ever being officially documented by the AHA), or did the guy Collins got the story from just want to have an interesting tale to tell about his scar? Did monstrous, seared-hairless canines that was as much bone as it was skin with glowing eyes really make the entire bayou their territory (again, without any official documentation by the AHA and only existing in story), or were encounters with feral packs of abandoned dogs blown way out of proportion to the point of common belief?

[real hinge]

I’d argue hellhounds existed as there are first hand accounts (Hardin’s confessions for example) that mention them

Also haven’t read back through the whole discussion, just saw mention of someone stating they probably didn’t exist

[icy brook]

^

[hasty raven]

It's impossible to ignore the very heavy-handed doubt placed by the writers over the Hellhounds and Water Devils. There is no reason for them to put so much emphasis on both pointing out flaws in the myths and presenting alternative explanations for how such stories arose, and then on top of that, give us easily falsified stories or non-proofs of such things having existed as the dedicated lore entries for them

[hasty raven]

Where's Hardin's confession? The Officer entries?

[real hinge]

The researcher/s are looking in the Louisiana event after it happened. In fact the one from the grunt entry appears to be a very long time after as he/she writes that the grunts are possibly used as inspiration for modern day zombie stories - could imply 21st century researcher (can’t recall exactly what it says without re-reading it)

[wet sparrow]

No the officer entries are about that one random hunter that worked with him if I remember correctly

[real hinge]

Yeah the nagant entries are letters from snakeskin chambers about his time working with Hardin

The confessions can be found online…or you could watch my latest YouTube video which is about Hardin where I also discuss his confessions

😉

[hasty raven]

No, the researcher who composed the Monstrorvm worked alongside Collins and Scognamiglio, who were actively researching the incident as well. He states in the Water Devil entry that Scognamiglio and Collins agree on the appearance of the Water Devils, but the researcher himself finds it ridiculous

[real hinge]

The researcher mentions multiple times that the Louisana event is in the past - he has no first hand experience 🤷‍♂️

[icy brook]

I will say that the water devils and hellhounds require much less mental gymnastics to justify their existence than the Crown and King A5

[real hinge]

There’s definitely some over exaggeration/conflicting information with some of the tales we hear, such as how Huff is killed. You can find a wanted poster for someone (can’t remember the name) who is involved with the murder of Huff in the game, yet we are led to believe that the twins or lynch are responsible- again two conflicting stories. however I think each monster in the game would have existed in some form or another - have to remember the sculptor is pulling all the strings and if capable of corrupting humans it’s feasible that it could corrupt animals as well.

[hasty raven]

I read the Hardin confessions. He only mentions 'the dogs' once, when a group that went out got attacked by a pack of them. No details on their appearance or anything. Not exactly proof of the Hellhounds as they were presented

[real hinge]

Again the researcher is not around during the Louisiana incident - taken from the book of monsters: “It seems like the hunters of this era were simply calling them Grunts.” “I'm starting to think these events may have been the beginning of the zombie stories we have today.” Just two snippets that show the researcher is doing this a long time after the event

[hasty raven]

Doesn't it stand out to you that every monster in the bayou has been well-documented by the AHA, verified by multiple sources, except for the non-human-derivatives?

[real hinge]

True, as I said the monsters all exist but perhaps in different form than we see in game but it’s evidence they exist

Existed**

[hasty raven]

That's my point, the Hellhounds and Water Devils are just exaggerations. In reality being feral dogs and literally any aggressive water creature that couldn't be easily identified, respectively

[real hinge]

There’s still a lot of accounts that show the other creatures existed - it could be to do with the “civil war” among the AHA factions that prohibited the proper documentation 🤷‍♂️

[hasty raven]

How would a conflict between international divisions of the AHA prevent Hellhounds and Water Devils being at least written down somewhere?

[real hinge]

Yeah I get what you’re saying. Both could be correct - it’s proven that dogs can go feral when abandoned so would make sense that could be the case in the situation, and I wouldn’t want to fuck with a pack of feral dogs so would make sense why they’re seen as such a threat. However given that each one is essentially taken from the same blueprint (bunny) in the same way the hives are taken from the blueprint of Ada Ruth’s mother and the fact the sculptor is a pro at manipulating flesh they could have fully existed.

[hasty raven]

It feels like we mostly agree on the fact that Hellhounds and Water Devils very likely didn't exist as they're presented in-game, don't we?

[real hinge]

Because Huff was definitely getting distracted and after his death it could have been less of a concern for those left fighting for control, and certain factions wouldn’t have been interested in documentation - lynch was purely looking for a way to take out the sculptor- finch was probably trying to keep huffs support from falling apart - Gird just wanted to bring a religious purge to the bayou etc. But you’re right that the AHA were good at documentation- after all you can’t learn and train to fight this sort of thing without keeping records.

[hasty raven]

I addressed the 'Hellhounds being copies' theory already. No dogs are seen in any stage of metamorphosis like the Armored, not even cocooned into the walls, so unless human hosts are converted into Hellhounds, there's no way for Hellhounds to be replicated. Additionally, there's no way they were replicated with their spiked collars and armor. Hives could be replicated from women wearing similar dresses, Meatheads could have worn anything that got torn as they grew, leaving just tight, tattered shorts, and Immolators wear nothing at all

[real hinge]

Yeah I feel for the most part we agree, as it’s definitely possible the game versions are from exaggerated accounts. I’m not convinced either way, as you say there’s no official AHA document proving they exist in the way we see them but there are accounts of creatures like this. your perspective is interesting and definitely something to consider when I get to my videos on those creatures.

[real hinge]

Yeah I haven’t read all the way back - seemed like a long thread 😅 that makes sense, and I guess given that there are dogs in the pens it could be difficult to argue regular dogs are converted - plus horses still exist as horses albeit mostly corpses

[hasty raven]

Also just a nitpick, they wouldn't be replicas of Bunny if they were. Bunny was a german shepard, and the Hellhounds have the build of an italian mastiff

[real hinge]

Bunny was a mastiff- the missing posters in game day as much

Say*

[hasty raven]

The diary says he was a shepard though...

I'm gonna check

yeah

named Bunny for his big ears, which isn't characteristic of mastiffs notably

rather, big erect ears

[real hinge]

I could be remembering wrong in that case. Pretty sure it says mastiff on the poster but 🤷‍♂️ yeah so makes more sense that there was a case of rabies going round

[hasty raven]

it's part of the reason I put so much emphasis on the large amount of emphasis the writers put on the Hellhounds being very questionable, because they're supposedly built like italian mastiffs, yet the dedicated lore entry we are given about them is about a completely different breed of dog who just gets regular rabies

doesn't line up at all

[real hinge]

It is unclear if the hellhounds existed in the same way we see them in game but both arguments can be made.

Yeah doesn’t fully line up - it’s implied bunny had rabies (of course could have been the sculptors infection) but I do like your line of thinking. Mixing something of our world (like rabies spreading in the dog population) with the supernatural

[hasty raven]

I think if the corruption affected the dogs at all, which it possibly didn't since it affects no other mammals like horses who are directly bitten, it's a side-effect. An accidental transmission to a host it wasn't meant for

[real hinge]

Yeah you make sense. And I guess at night in a place filled with zombies and otherworldly monsters a pack of wild dogs could easily be seen as mutated hellhounds

I’m enjoying this train of thought. Bloody love talking lore and theories. It’s definitely given me something to think about and I’ll for sure include this theory in a future video about hellhounds.

[hasty raven]

Plenty of diseases do that in real life, being adapted for a lifecycle within or between a few specific organisms and accidentally being transmitted to humans, which benefits neither party as the host may die and the parasite may miss a vital part of its lifecycle

[real hinge]

If you’ve got a yt channel I’ll happily drop a shout to you as it’s your theory

[hasty raven]

technically I do have a youtube channel but I don't really do anything with it anymore

[real hinge]

Yeah very true. There’s actually many diseases/viruses in humans that don’t transmit to dogs and same the other way round

[hasty raven]

the Hunt analogy for this would be the larva that replace the blood of Grunts accidentally infesting a dog, which it is unable to convert into a cocoon, so the dog just suffers all of the effects of the initial infection indefinitely

it would be easily mistakable for rabies, how Grunts act

To add on to this, William Salter details his feelings during his infection process. He states that, while doing horrible things, he intermittently felt very remorseful before continuing whatever horrible thing he was doing

And in the final entry of the diary about Bunny, the author says this

It can be interpreted as either the guy who shot Bunny saying he was very sorry, or that Bunny was very sorry but had to be shot anyway

I find that really intriguing that Bunny might have shown remorse after attacking the other dog, just like William Salter did while he was turning, but it could easily be interpreted the other way

might even be an intentional detail by the writers that it could be interpreted either way so as to not confirm nor deny that he was corrupted or just rabid

[noble scarab]

Can we infer anything from the fact that the bites don’t confer a poisoned status? Clearly the doctor grunt is able to inflict that kinda thing, though it may be more mundane

[real hinge]

Yeah that could be a factor as well. Although I think that comes from his weapon? Maybe a infected medical tool?

[noble scarab]

His saw does have little mini hive insects around it, so it could be that, or it could be just a mundane infection caused by all the rotting dead things around

[real hinge]

Yeah that’s quite interesting. Can be interpreted both ways. The more we talk about it the more your theory makes sense. I still think it’s possible the sculptor is at work, but it makes sense that they’re wild dogs with rabies.

[noble scarab]

I’m still firmly in the camp that they did exist to some degree, maybe not as depicted in game, but they must have a supernatural aspect to them based on the beastmaster coming to try to train them

My man dreamed of being bitten by them for a time before he came to to bayou

Tho his trailer shows him getting his ass kicked by them so he may have abandoned the idea

We also must consider that the AHA records just suck, or are incomplete. Also the fact that all of these researchers think the others are full of shit

[real hinge]

Yeah I can get behind the idea that they aren’t exactas depicted in the game. I also completely forgot about the beastmaster and his lore. It’s an interesting and logical theory though. I just hope they release more lore to expand on the universe and to also make things more clear.

Exactly*

[hasty raven]

my headcanon is he was the owner of the Italian Mastiff pack that inspired the modern Hellhound depictions before the incident and he fled when it spread, but his guilt and possibly supernatural influences are what gave him the nightmares that made him come to the bayou. I mean, there is literally no explanation for why he was haunted by visions of Hellhounds when he apparently lived away from the incident and had no knowledge of it, and it's even stranger that his first plan to confront them was to tame them

That would also explain the similarities between the spiked collars of the Hellhounds and the Beast Hunters' gear. They were his guard dogs, or perhaps he helped train them for the police, so he had the same material as their collars to use for his armor/owned the armor in the first place

[icy brook]

I do think the Legendary description hints that the hellhounds existed well before the beast hunter took up his profession

“but when he set out to tame the hellhounds themselves, even most Hunters thought he’d gone too far.”

Plus he had been seeing them in his dreams for years, not to mention manifesting scars from them

[noble scarab]

his isnt the 1st case of hunters being called to the bayou via supernatural means

[clever bison]

i do enjoy the theory, and it has a good basis. then again, we do have explicit, albeit brief, mention of Hellhounds existing since the Beast Hunter's lore state that he and the other hunters were aware of the Hellhounds existence

We've laid out all the points for both sides of the theory, so now we wait for more lore

[sleek crest]

When was the last time you actually got more lore?

[junior pecan]

Ha! More lore or more lore of consequence?

The former would be when the last few guns were added, the latter would be never

[hasty raven]

on the topic of 'Hellhound lore being inconsistent and things seen in game being recollections of facts mixed with fiction'

(image from a reddit post) The missing poster for Bunny seen in-game, for some reason, is an exact copy/paste of the first diary entry from the Hellhound Monstrorvm, except for the breed of Bunny being changed from German Shepard to Italian Mastiff

Did they consciously change the breed when copying the text from the diary page and just forget to change the actual Monstrorvm text, or did they intentionally change the breed on the missing poster but not the Monstrorvm diary entry as a hint that what we see in-game is a mixture of facts and fiction all roped together by researchers after the fact?

I prefer to believe theories that explain as many plot holes or design inconsistencies as possible, whether the plot holes or design inconsistencies were intentional or not

There's also the issue that, for some reason, the missing poster illustration is already mutilated like an in-game Hellhound, which would make no sense for Bunny's owner to describe him as to the illustrator/draw him that way

so... it seems more likely to me the poster is just another blending of reality and myth of the Hunt

At least, if you don't want to hand wave everything away as 'an accident', no matter how hard the detail would be for them to miss if it was unintentional

[nocturne dome]

It's been mastiff for a while now

German shepherds weren't seen in America until 1907

Although the mastiff wasn't seen until 1988

So

[clever bison]

or they just slapped the model of a hellhound on the poster cos they didnt wanna model a regular dog haha

[empty owl]

hunt lore is like a lynch film

filled with questions and answers that does not make sense

[hasty raven]

refer #lore-discussion message

[hasty raven]

btw a long time ago I brought up the idea that the Beast Hunter was Bunny's previous owner as a way to help explain why he was randomly drawn to the Hunt with the desire to tame the feral/infected dogs and someone said that Bunny bit his owner on the left ear and left a scar which disproves it because Beast Hunter has no scar

but I'm pretty sure the person who thought Bunny bit him on the left ear and left a scar was misremembering the detail of Bunny nibbling his ear playfully, and no mention of any scars, so the Beast Hunter=Bunny's owner theory is still valid

[analog raptor]

LORE!?

Finally some good lore

[vernal briar]

How did the grunts actually break out of prison?

[tulip quarry]

is the uppercut actually based on a real revolver? like is it just a big game hunting revolver on steroids

ok so I searched some stuff from the Discord here and its like a colt walker?

[sudden glacier]

the Caldwell weapons are replacements for Colts because of copyright purposes

[tulip quarry]

I found out the conversion is a colt open top thanks to someone from hunt general

just not sure what the uppercut is

[sudden glacier]

I mean... the Uppercut is a modifed conversion

there's a good chance they made it up

[tulip quarry]

yeah

[icy brook]

It could be a walker conversation, although I’m not sure if the frame could accommodate a 45-70 shell, it’s more likely Caldwell was making large bore pistols to compete in long range pistol target matches

[tulip quarry]

yeah I assumed it was some weird Colt Walker cartridge conversion

and the lore entry says that it was actually being manufacted before there was a fire at the place they were being made at

[noble scarab]

maybe its inspired by a Colt Navy type thing, but with a larger bullet caliber?

[tulip quarry]

that is a big cartridge though

[icy brook]

They could just be custom ordered by the AHA

Or similar party

[lyric arrow]

IRL colt walker conversions were for .45 lc, so not really

[tulip quarry]

a conversion conversion

well I don't know, clearly it is the caldwell but longer barrel/large cartridge?

[lyric arrow]

It is at best inspired by the colt walker, and the closest IRL thing would be a magnum reserch BFR

[tulip quarry]

a real life uppercut would probably break your wrist lmao

[lyric arrow]

It would explode while shooting

the cylinder couldn't withstand the preassure of a rifle powered cartrige.

[tulip quarry]

speaking of cartridge conversions,I never read into the LeMat weapon's lore

It's not the cap and ball one of course, but how was it made and by whom

[lyric arrow]

even the modern Magnum research BFR chambered in .45-70 only holds 5 rounds and weighs a whopping 1.6 to 2.4 kilos

[icy brook]

That is a good question regarding the Lemat

[tulip quarry]

I think they really just wanted it in-game without you know

reloading the thing for 10 minutes

[lyric arrow]

I don't think we have that info

It's called the Mark 2 and it's mentiuned in the description that it's an upgrade to the old cap and ball variants

[tulip quarry]

ye

man I'd love a real life cartridge conversion of that thing

[icy brook]

Yeah as Jonathan Ferguson stated a cartridge conversion Lemat wouldn’t function as it does in game

[lyric arrow]

there are, altho they are ugly

[tulip quarry]

I saw the forgotten weapons one

imagine buying that off a collector and it looks like that

would rather take a reproduction cap and ball one holy shit

[lyric arrow]

Yeah - but those are historically accurate 🤣

[tulip quarry]

also the specter is also a real shotgun, right?

named after christopher spencer (Marlin Specter in Hunt Showdown)

[icy brook]

It is yeah

Same manufacturer as the Spencer rifles

[tulip quarry]

does that mean we get the spencer carbine too sometime?

As the Spencer carbine, would be cool

[icy brook]

That would be really cool 🤌

[tulip quarry]

but didn't Crytek say it would be hard to add to levering

no, that was for the evans repeater

[icy brook]

All I want is a Winchester 1895

[tulip quarry]

a long ammo winfield then

[icy brook]

Yeah pretty much

[tulip quarry]

it says like the first cartridges it used were .30-40 Krag

(a gun we still need!!!)

[icy brook]

^

[tulip quarry]

out of all the service rifles we have in this game we still don't have the actual rifle the us army used during the game's time period

[icy brook]

It is a shame but perhaps one day

One day

[tulip quarry]

the way you load it is interesting as fuck too

maybe it will be all considered - after the next mosin skin of course

[icy brook]

It wouldn’t surprise me if we get a unique weapon drop with lore to go with in the near future

[digital hound]

Not all of them were, some other prototypes look closer to what it's in Hunt

[clever bison]

Excited for some new weapons!

A Winfield 1895 would be great amazing @icy brook

And a Spencer carbine would be so nice to see, too! @tulip quarry

sad we'll probably not get an Evans :((

[nocturne dome]

I mean most would have been converted into muskets so

(as in there would be very few Spencer carbines)

[novel thunder]

Give me a winfield in 45-70

[icy brook]

Model 1886

[empty nymph]

I think there's a 50 star american flag on wolfshead but the 50 star flag is not adopted by america until 1960

[hasty raven]

time travel is the only logical conclusion

[sudden glacier]

did you count the stars

[nocturne dome]

You can just look at the shape of the box of stars

[empty owl]

i think its just crytek overlooking the details

[random lava]

There isn't a 50 star flag in game, or atleast shouldn't be, if you can screenshot the one you think has 50 stars it could be sent on if needed

The flags are time appropriate

[hasty raven]

So about that announcement...

I like how they referenced the lyrics to Rise Up Dead Man, first of all

but most importantly, the hashtag #LightTheShadow

'Light the shadow' is the beginning of what Harold Black describes as a 'prophecy' that has haunted him, relating to the Assassin

I only have 2/5 Assassin entries unlocked so forgive me for speculating with incomplete information, but I have a feeling that this #LightTheShadow thing is going to be a big lore event, something to do with 'lighting the shadow', i.e. fighting back against the darkness in Louisiana

The shadow being, in Harold Black's 'prophecy's' case, the Assassin, though it likely refers to the Louisiana incident as a whole in the context of the event

[icy brook]

Nice connections man

I am pretty hyped for this new hunter and the possibility of a bow

[hasty raven]

Seems like two new Hunters from the Dark Sight trailer. One Native man and one Native woman, who also was drawing back a bow

[ocean axle]

Can I ask someone with extended lore knowledge here a question?

How do we know that the hiver, immolator, and armored ones were created by the sculptor? in their lore entrees they all seem to be products of their circumstance, rather than having been deliberatly created by something.

Is the sculptor forcing this energy into them from a distance? I always thought he took a hands on approach to his creations like he did with the scrap beak

[hasty raven]

The Hive was created because of the weird green bugs, which are from the Sculptor. The Immolator(s) were probably created because of something to do with the corruption, somehow, but Idk. But either way, after they were created, the Sculptor 'copied' them as sort of templates for Grunts to metamorphose into. All of that beehive-looking material that's growing all over some buildings with people trapped inside are essentially cocoons where Grunts are shaped into new Immolators, Hives, Meatheads, or Armored. All, except maybe the Armored, of the 'marked' enemies in the Monstrorvm are copies of an original that the Sculptor copied. Armored are possibly just a standard form of Grunt that utilizes the cocoon material as armor, not copied off of some original instance

[ocean axle]

yea I was just wondering if we had any concrete link to the sculptor and these creations, because as far as I can tell, there isnt any concrete way to link the creatures to the sculptor other than his name being a huge indicator, and the fact that they are being cloned.

thanks for the response btw

[hasty raven]

np

Meatheads definitely weren't created by the Sculptor intentionally since they were a result of the AHA's inoculation serum having super weird effects on pregnant women and the fetus, Immolators probably not, but then again I have no idea what caused that priest that got beaten to death suddenly become a walking furnace zombie, and Hives were possibly intentionally created since the bugs were from the Sculptor and the Sculptor might have 'commanded' them to infest that mother, and Armored are definitely created by the Sculptor. All in all, though, the originals were used as templates by the Sculptor, so in a way they are the Sculptor's creations

[analog raptor]

Quick, somebody give me phantom lore

[hasty raven]

Libre De Armamentariis, Winfield C entries

[opaque glade]

His mask is to intimidate enemies and he is a lawyer

[analog raptor]

Oooh

OOH

OOH

[hasty raven]

oops hold on

[opaque glade]

is there any Black Coat lore?

I know he died

[opaque glade]

and I think killed an uncle

[hasty raven]

those are all of the lore entries about the Phantom @analog raptor

[opaque glade]

TIL Phantom uses a prosthetic arm

[hasty raven]

bruh you didn't know that? That's... a major part of his design

[analog raptor]

And he's has a jacked leg as well

[opaque glade]

I NEVER NOTICED

I barely looked at his arm

[analog raptor]

Him, Carter, and Sherriff Hardin are my boys

[hasty raven]

So to summarize the Phantom lore, I don't know what happened to him that injured him so badly or what he did to earn his reputation in the papers that he says was 'justice', but whatever happened, he wanted revenge on his father, who was a Hunter

[opaque glade]

what did his father do again?

[hasty raven]

No idea

[wet sparrow]

Guys I solved the lore

[opaque glade]

He teamkilled his teammate while extracting (joke)

[wet sparrow]

Obviously his dad is vergil

Who stole his arm

It all makes sense now

[hasty raven]

Wait I'm dumb

[wet sparrow]

Yes

[opaque glade]

when you said Vergil, I thought of an entirely different game

[wet sparrow]

I did mean another game

It’s a dmc reference

[opaque glade]

oh

I was thinking of Vigil from R6s because the names sound similar and dead fathers

[wet sparrow]

Looool

Yeah originally the phantom is from north korea

[opaque glade]

Korean batman

[hasty raven]

nevermind I still don't know why the Phantom wanted revenge on his father

[opaque glade]

yanyways

Maybe he lost his arm because of his father?

that could be why

[hasty raven]

Anyway, the Irish Woman, presumably Lynch, was tracking him down because his father was a Hunter that was valuable and difficult to acquire for the AHA apparently, and the Phantom killed him

[wet sparrow]

Why would he though?

[opaque glade]

bastard?

not as in bastard child

[wet sparrow]

Idk I would imagine a hunter would lose limbs from his job

[opaque glade]

I mean the father could've been a not cool guy

[wet sparrow]

Not from his dad

Maybe the father killed his mom?

[opaque glade]

that too

[hasty raven]

But after 'proving himself' or something by resisting the three people sent to kill him, the Irish Woman/Lynch gave him a prosthetic arm, which the Phantom took and proceeded to join the AHA to repay them

[opaque glade]

so basically, they seem like cool people

[hasty raven]

Also, the 'vandal' variants of the Winfield C are named after the Phantom which is cool

[wet sparrow]

Imagine losing in a 3vs1 against a guy with one arm

[opaque glade]

pfft

they can't imagine anymore

they are dead

[wet sparrow]

True

[hasty raven]

I'm not sure if the reason the Phantom killed his father was really that personal. I don't think we're given any info on what 'justice' he's seeking, but the death of his father was not the end of his mission nor the beginning, just another part of it

[wet sparrow]

That’s a reach

You don’t wanna kill your dad unless you personally hate him

[hasty raven]

Since the letter on the arm says it should help him 'settle his debt', and he already had a reputation as a phantom assassin before killing him

[opaque glade]

He was also a lawyer

[hasty raven]

I mean not as personal as him being responsible for all of his deformities or killing his mom or something

I mean that his father might also just be a part of this group he's against

[opaque glade]

He could've been a cultist

unlikely probably

[wet sparrow]

That’s actually really smart

Maybe he used his son for a ritual?

[hasty raven]

It's not the AHA he's against, the father being a Hunter was just incidental, because if he was against the AHA, Lynch wouldn't have given him a new arm to 'help settle his debt'

[opaque glade]

we know that

[hasty raven]

Maybe he was fighting against some cultists, who knows

I don't think there's any more Phantom backstory besides his bio and those winfield entries

with the Winfield Vandals being basically his signature weapon, even being named after him, I'm surprised he didn't get a legendary Vandal variant with his DLC, or at least be using a Vandal in his store page instead of a cavalry sabre for some reason

[rotund ferry]

Cannon lore Meathead actually has fat nutz

[opaque glade]

canon lore Redshirt is a god among men

[hasty raven]

I have a little theory that the leeches in Meatheads are like supersized versions of the larvae that infest Grunts, and they were beefed up somehow by the inoculum combined with the growing fetus

So Meatheads are just massive Grunts

I can't imagine where else the leeches would have come from, the first Meathead was born with them already

[opaque glade]

I wonder how the Hive people became... hive people

They come from grunts likely because of the body you see

[hasty raven]

The Hive lore says how the first Hive was made. Every other Hive is just a clone of the original

[opaque glade]

wacky

I dunno much about the lore so...

I'm kinda guessing

[hasty raven]

Every Meathead and most likely Immolators too are copies of an original

Grunts metamorphose into them

[opaque glade]

Meatheads and butchers are like cousins in a way, right?

I actually did try and read some of the monster papers

didn't get far

but I do remember one of the butcher papers

speaking of which, new spider paper just unlocked for me

[hasty raven]

I only have 2/5 Butcher entries unlocked but from what I've heard, the Butcher is a Meathead that was found and taken care of by some crazy taxidermist

[opaque glade]

Spiders seem like mutated spiders

because they're just bigger

and scarier

[hasty raven]

It's bigger because it was cared for I assume, and it was decorated with the pig head and outfit being given by the taxidermist to 'make it less scary'

[opaque glade]

less scary to me because I can now see them better because of their big boy size

[opaque glade]

of course

Pig heads make things less scarier

[hasty raven]

Then the Sculptor decided to make copies of the Butcher for whatever reason the bosses exist

[opaque glade]

What is with Scrapbeak? Why is that mf a thing?

How did it become a thing?

[hasty raven]

Bosses all serve a purpose to the Sculptor, like every other enemy, but I'm not exactly sure what they do. It's more important than what normal infected do

Idk anything about scrapbeak lol, watch the trailer for him though

[opaque glade]

what does a Sculptor want?

sorry

I mean the

[hasty raven]

To take over..? I don't think it's even certain in universe

[hasty raven]

The Sculptor isn't the only invading entity though...

[opaque glade]

There is also some cult

that worships something

and that something probably isn't good. I think it's this plague or whatever they worship

[hasty raven]

There have been many beings like the Sculptor that have caused their own incidents across the world. The AHA is just one sect of the secretive organization that deals with them. Some entity caused a Hunt in China, which possibly even inspired the traditions Spring Festival, which means it would have happened waaaay long ago

[opaque glade]

Damn

I wanna see what happened in Russia now

Russians would just go in fists only and still win

[hasty raven]

Also might have been another Hunt in the American west around the time of the one in Louisiana..? The Archaeologist's legendary weapon mentions picking off targets from a distance in the mesas

[opaque glade]

Turns out she's just a murderer

that would be a plot twist

[hasty raven]

Pog?

Makes sense lmao

[opaque glade]

I wonder if Monroe became a hunter so he could escape being hunted or whatever by Huff

[hasty raven]

There might be little hints toward other Hunts, but the one in China is the only one that we really know for sure happened besides Louisiana

[opaque glade]

I could see one happening in the UK maybe

[mortal hazel]

I feel like its more about him trying to cope with his trauma from huff. since huff is dead right?

[opaque glade]

I dunno

[mortal hazel]

Im pretty sure he is, but I could be wrong

[opaque glade]

what I do know is that Redshirt did a bet so that's why he's a hunter

or something like that

finish the hunts and he gets some land

[mortal hazel]

also this would be really cool. I feel like theres a lot of story potential there, but having like a city thats a bit more Paved and built up than DeSalle would be cool

[hasty raven]

I think he already was a Hunter and his Hunter buddies made the bet with him

[opaque glade]

Sounds likely

[mortal hazel]

yeah I think thats what it was

[hasty raven]

The bet was to run through the bayou with no weapons and a target on him

So I doubt he joined the AHA just to run through the swamp unarmed

[mortal hazel]

lol imagine

[hasty raven]

correction: Redshirt was only dared to enter the bayou with a target on his back. Nothing about being unarmed

[quasi badger]

I personally had the idea that technically there are multiple Redshirts, everyone of them are different people who made similar bets before running in

[hasty raven]

the guy's name is literally John Redshirt

[quasi badger]

Wait for real?

[hasty raven]

yes lol

[quasi badger]

Lol nvm then, guess making suicidal bets really makes you a legendary in the AHA

[opaque glade]

Yep

when you're a god amongst men, you should be legendary

[rotund ferry]

huh, I am confused

to many lore

[icy brook]

Not to be pedantic but there was the small incident in New York described in the Skinflint Chronicles

[opaque glade]

Skinflint is a weird name

[noble scarab]

It’s an archaic term meaning cheap ass motherfucker

And considering that this dude is meant to pretty much just be Scrooge it fits

[hasty raven]

What are the Skinflint Chronicles?

[icy brook]

The three entries of lore given during the Christmas event

It’s probably not a big deal in the grander lore but I did find it kind of interesting

[hasty raven]

I can't find them anywhere

are there lore entries from the halloween and scrapbeak event? I have not been around for any event

[icy brook]

Here is the first entry

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/accounts-received-the-adventures-of-timothy-stone-part-1

[hasty raven]

thank you, so we have confirmed Hunts happening in China and New York at the same time as Louisiana

Small chance of one in the mesa-y regions of the American west, or at least one in the past that had to do with the Hopi myth she was obsessed with

[noble scarab]

What’s interesting in the New York one is that there’s a lady that’s turning into a grunt/is a grunt that still has sanity and isn’t rotting

[hasty raven]

I'm pretty sure that's already a thing in the lore

notes about William Salter say he may have had some level of natural immunity that prolonged the infection process, and Nora (grunt lady) said she seems to have a level of natural immunity that 'may not last'. If you look at William Salter's journal, he was still able to be very lucid and sane for the most part, even a bit later into the transition

[opaque glade]

Someone's gonna be trying to date her and I'm gonna be very sorry for that poor bastard

[hasty raven]

And the Skinflint tries to 'bind their bloodline informally' by pressing their open hand wounds together to stop the progression of the corruption, stating that it's rare but has worked before

[opaque glade]

huh what

[hasty raven]

so the immunity to the corruption isn't a new thing, or even something unique to the New York incident

[opaque glade]

Damn

I know a good cure

bullets

Cure 'em dead

You're immune if the zombies die first

[hasty raven]

The Skinflint lore entries that penhux just posted the first entry to

[opaque glade]

huh wacky

[noble scarab]

to be fair he did end up concertina'ing her a few moments later

[noble scarab]

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/the-trials-of-dr-reed

here's another account of someone becoming a grunt

this one is a bit faster in the turning

[wide snow]

would it be cool if we could buy a hammer for our load-out

[hasty raven]

Yes

[honest star]

What’s the situation with the lore is it a mutant hordes b demons 3 it’s Cthulhu obvs, I’m new to hunt but the lore is pretty interesting so yeah hi 👋

[gritty quiver]

Do any of you feel like certain monsters don

don't fit the lore*

For instance I find the immolater immersion breaking

[hasty raven]

Immolators do feel out of place to me, yeah

Hellhounds and Water Devils too a little

[hasty raven]

I don't understand what you're trying to say exactly

[gritty quiver]

Yeah, Water Devils there are just too many.
Immolaters suck because literally ONLY dusters are effective and they make the game seem more like "Magic" than a genuine plague that spreads,
Everything else has this mutated freak feel to it, immolaters seem like something an evil wizard would make

[hasty raven]

Not to mention that Water Devils and Hellhounds might not even really exist

[opaque glade]

use a hammer

[rapid gate]

or the gunstock of a rifle

[analog raptor]

What year toes hunt take place

Does

[rapid gate]

1895 I think

[opaque glade]

toes

?

[analog raptor]

Does

I clarified

[modern glen]

Do we have an idea as to why the Sculptor does all that ? Any goal, or pure evil ?

[hasty raven]

probably just a desire to spread

maybe purely instinctual

[analog raptor]

Whose the sculptor?

[noble scarab]

one of a collection of entities that just kinda showed up wanting to spread its influence into our own world

[hasty raven]

Notably, the Sculptor causing the Louisianian incident is apparently a bit stronger than the rest and giving the AHA quite a bit of trouble

And it's possible every entity works the same or similarly to the Sculptor, since the incident in New York from the Skinflint's lore is also based on Grunts

Though technically it's possible that the infection in the New York incident, while also creating Grunts like in Louisiana, might advance in a different way

For example, in Louisiana, the Grunts are infested with some weird larvae in their blood, then they get cocooned in big hive-type things, and metamorphose into specialized forms that are copies of an original (Hives, Meatheads, Immolators) or basic defensive forms like the Armored

But in the New York incident, maybe the Grunts aren't even infected with some sort of larva, and if they are, it could have a different lifecycle

so basically the Sculptor is one of many entities that break into the world and spread, albeit an abnormally strong one, and it's not sure if all of the entities work the same or are different

Or what exactly their goal is

[amber onyx]

Is the old lore from early access still canon?

I mean the lore that supposedly find the existence of the AHA in the future?

[odd swan]

ive had this idea in my head for a year and a half and i just cant get off my ass and take the hour or two to draw it:
Crocs that survived the infestation but have been infested by water devils. The croc will rush onto land when a hunter gets close. When the croc is shot, it rolls over onto its back and explodes into water devils that scatter across the area to try to bite the hunter more.

[sharp schooner]

Sounds like a thing for #game-ideas

[analog raptor]

What are water devils exactly?

[merry rune]

mutated trouts iirc

[lyric arrow]

they are mutated grubs or maggots from infested meat some hunters ate

[analog raptor]

Ye

I'm reading lore, quite interesting

[lyric arrow]

when they came into contact with the hunters ritualistically changed blood they became waterdevils and killed the two hunters from the inside reaching a river

[analog raptor]

Wow the meathead actually starts out as a child?

And the butcher is a Frankensteins monster?

The spider is a mass accumulation of corpses

Scrap beak seems to be a dude just melded with the mask via bones

[icy brook]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CScDsXWKv01/?utm_medium=copy_link

I like how the knife is hammered to look like knapped stone, these must be coming out as part of the event

I’m also interested to see where these Native hunters are coming from, the theme definitely seems plains or southwest

[opaque glade]

I don't wanna interrupt anything but I think I found something interesting

it's for a legendary Mosin

[hasty raven]

What about it

[opaque glade]

I dunno, seemed interesting

the maybe first Hellhound has a rifle made for it by the owner

I also saw a rifle that was gonna be a gift Huff made for his wife

but she didn't accept

and Huff was the torture person, right?

he tortured Monroe

[rotund ferry]

I think Bunny the Hellhound was a good boy

[opaque glade]

Heavenhound

[narrow halo]

@opaque gladeYou just discovered weapon descriptions?

[hasty raven]

I read all legendary weapons the other day

event skins too

Also I like to use the Bunny sniper with Beast Hunter because I like to believe Theodore Tuck is Bunny's original owner

[opaque glade]

Maybe

[odd swan]

Well the lore states that some crocs survived the infestation so i think it belongs here since its expanding on the idea

[odd swan]

Choctaw indians are a major tribe in the Louisiana bayou

[icy brook]

^

[hasty raven]

there is a tiny precedent for Hopi people to make their way to the bayou

the Archaeologist was obsessed with a Hopi myth about the destruction of a tribe which led her to the Hunt in Louisiana

so I'm guessing that Hopi myth is related to a Hunt that happened long ago that the Hopi people dealt with, though I looked up the myth and it... was hard to understand with so many foreign words, but didn't seem to be similar to a traditional Hunt

Idk though, it was hard to follow

[icy brook]

Yeah that is a good point, I suppose they will give more info with tomorrow’s stream

[hasty raven]

and the Archaeologist (and Carcass Gunrunner) were the focus of one of the DeSalle teasers

[opaque glade]

Maybe the Carcass Gunrunner used to do some gun things there?

[hasty raven]

well the DeSalle trailer they were the focus of was them in a duo hunting a boss in lower DeSalle, it wasn't like any backstory stuff about them

https://youtu.be/WRqS10PgeSM

actually they might not fight the boss in the saloon, but still it's just a regular Hunt

[opaque glade]

I fought a Scrapbeak in the saloon

[hasty raven]

congrats

[bold tiger]

Is the text carved into some weapons (Augur, Bone Veve etc.) Decipherable with the same alphabet used for other stuff

Has anyone tried that yet?

[hasty raven]

No idea if they're decipherable but I think there a multiple different fictional 'languages' used across different weapons

[round fog]

for the mountain mans bio, it mentions a "unholy trinity". Do we know who that refers to? is it the first 3 bosses? (spider, butcher, assassin?)

[hasty raven]

It's the trio of brothers who made hunting in trios possible somehow

don't remember the exact wording

the story is in the Springfield entries I believe

Yes, it's in the Springfiel 1886 entries

[bold tiger]

One brother died, they kept getting new thirds who always died

then all of the brothers died ending the curse of hunting in trios

[hasty raven]

nice effort, but literally just read the entries

They always killed the third person themselves

there was some sort of oath about hunting in pairs for some reason, apparently a sort of curse that forced you to have to hunt in pairs maximum

breaking the oath 'unleashed' something that made them go crazy

after going crazy, the third brother died (later revealed to have been killed by the other two brothers themselves), though they kept hunting with third, who always died (again, the brothers brutally massacred the third 'in ways that couldn't be caused by a human')

[bold tiger]

Those last two parts I dont remember

unless it was just implied somewhere, I have every weapon mastered

[hasty raven]

no I'm summarizing the Springfield entries directly

Them killing their third is what broke the oath, and is keeping it broken apparently. Mountain Man says they must still be hunting in threes and killing their third since the oath is still broken, implying that if they stopped sacrificing a third in their Hunts, then the trio curse would come into effect again

Mountain Man helped them in their operation because he was desperate

that's the association with an unholy trinity that's mentioned in his bio

[bold tiger]

The third died "more often than not"

but then "the third always died"

I guess always is more often than not

[hasty raven]

so to summarize, the trio of brothers broke the oath to hunt in pairs, and they started going crazy and 'less human' as Mountain Man puts it. Then, two of the brothers kill the other brother but get a random person to join them for every subsequent Hunt, always killing their third in extremely disturbing, inhuman ways. They always hunt in threes and kill the third because breaking the oath 'unleashed something' on them, and only by continuing to hunt in trios and sacrificing the third at the end can every other hunter hunt in trios without consequence

Mountain Man says he doesn't think they were even human anymore, they progressively got crazier and stranger as they went on

[bold tiger]

What does the "we were wrong about them having killed each other"

in the sixth entry

[hasty raven]

and he says he doesn't understand why they continue this trio sacrifice ritual thing, just to hunt in threes, so he thinks there's some other motive the brothers have to keep the oath broken. I think that maybe they've been manipulated by whatever they 'unleashed' by breaking the oath into continuing to sacrifice for it

[hasty raven]

The person who wrote the letter is trying to get info about the trio of brothers for someone, we don't know who he's writing the letters to, but they think that the brothers are dead

and that they killed each other after going crazy

[bold tiger]

Ok, I guess it could be interpretations from it as well

[hasty raven]

but he finds out from Mountain Man that they're still out hunting and continuing the trio sacrifice thing since everyone can still hunt in threes with no consequences

[bold tiger]

The mountain man thinks they are still hunting but something else allowed trios

at least if I read it right

[hasty raven]

what makes you think that

[bold tiger]

nevermind sort of

"it wasn't just possible because the brother had died,"

"it was possible because their third always died"

but then again this is the man with a bear on his head speaking

[hasty raven]

He's saying that the oath wasn't broken by the killing of the brother, but it's broken because they keep killing their third

[bold tiger]

It is weird because he is speaking in the past tense

[hasty raven]

why is that weird

he's telling the story from when he helped them kill their thirds

[bold tiger]

because he says the curse was broken then says he thinks they are still hunting

[narrow halo]

Yes, brothers are probably dead

Then we have Cain, but biblical one only had one brother so it's not one of them

[thorn gyro]

wher can i find lore on why the hunters kill each other ?

[opaque glade]

I thought someone said it was greed in a trailer but maybe I'm remebering wrong

[hasty raven]

Pretty sure it's just competition

It's not the norm though. The Louisiana incident is so out-of-hand compared to other Hunts that it devolved into Hunters fighting Hunters

Sherrif Hardin's related lore details the initial breaking point where Hunters started killing eachcother

[hasty raven]

Everything said points to them still around, continuing their activities, because hunting in threes is still possible

And Cain might be one of the DeSalle brothers but that's neither here nor there

You could argue Mountain Man is an unreliable narrator because he's drunk, but the author notes how uncharacteristically haunted and disturbed he acts recounting the tale, something that 'couldn't be faked'

He's drinking in order to cope with the thoughts, not conjuring the thoughts from drunkenness

[icy brook]

But he’s Thomas god damn Bridge and nothing can kill him

https://tenor.com/view/nodding-yes-approve-approval-i-approve-gif-6191609

[hasty raven]

imagine being named after an elevated road

[icy brook]

I do think it’s pretty interesting Bridge uses a mosin, I’ve always considered him to be a Sparks or trapdoor kind of guy

[hasty raven]

Is William Durant the only legendary Hunter that dies in the lore?

Besides Revenant obviously

I mean, dies during the story of Hunt, not after

We also see William Durant die in the Dark Sight trailer, and I believe that's the only time a legendary Hunter (again, besides Revenant lol) dies in an official Hunt video or trailer

They've been really consistent with not killing off any legendary Hunter in official videos

[bold tiger]

If only we had a Krag or some other American rifle so not everyone used a mosin. (n the lore that is, I would've liked it had they put some weapons that might or might not add in the lore.

[icy brook]

^^^

[hasty raven]

Samurai from Japan

Signature weapon is a rifle made for the Civil War

A lot of legendary weapons with their Hunters don't make much sense

Xiao Feng's father, a Hunter who was dealing with an incident in China, gifted Xiao Feng with a Nagant, a Russian weapon

[icy brook]

Granted if you had a trapdoor during the Satsuma Rebellion you were probably pretty damn cool

[hasty raven]

what the heck is a trapdoor

[icy brook]

Any Springfield 1866-84

[hasty raven]

makes sense

[fierce sinew]

IIRC some springfields were used.

Not trapdoors but hunt plays just loose enough for it to be reasonable.

[bold tiger]

And besides the ronin is in the U.S. now so using a weapon from here would make sense

I bet if there was a precision/deadeye pax that would be what Russell Chambers would use.

[hasty raven]

No, the description of the Seinan Sharpshooter says the Ronin used it in battle in Japan

[bold tiger]

Ronin is in the U.S. though

It would also make sense as Japan at the time didn't really have many home produced rifles

1897 is about when arisakas started being produced, and again I said in the lore it would be interesting

Rather than the lore conforming to the gameplay

[hasty raven]

Where he went to later has no relevance to how he'd come into possession of a Civil War-originating rifle while in Japan

[bold tiger]

Because of imperialism basically

Also he could have had a springfield rifle which was then converted into the 1866 breechloader

[hasty raven]

Xiao Feng's father gifting him a Nagant could be explained by the sect of the Hunter's Association in China importing them like Louisiana does because Xiao Feng's father was a Hunter

[bold tiger]

No issues with that one

Well only issue is the cordwainer looks ugly AF

The snipers gift is made to look the C96 carbines that were extremely popular in China

[hasty raven]

We have 4 Hunters from China and only one from Japan, no other Asian countries

I guess it's because there's a Hunt going on in China at the same time

[icy brook]

That or they were sitting idle, possibly the Chinese organization knew the even in Louisiana was coming

[hasty raven]

Nah it's happening at the same time

Dead Blessing's bio says she travelled to Louisiana to Hunt in order to train and learn more to partake in the Hunt in China

Why is thw Zhog Kui DLC named after the Hunter when it comes with two Hunters

Oh oops, it's North Star's bio that says she travelled from China to train to 'aid in the fight on her home turf'

[narrow halo]

What I am saying the curse was broken and they doesn't depend on them continiuing to hunt

[icy brook]

Fair fair

[hasty raven]

Yeah, and I'm saying the oath has to stay broken by continuing their trio killing

Mountain Man says that the fact trios can still exist without reprecussions is because the two brothers must still be going out on Hunts and murdering their third member

[narrow halo]

😩

[hasty raven]

the Prodigal Daughter's Sparks (The Reckoning) says she brought 5 bullets, each engraved with the name of someone who had a hand in her mother's (possibly Anna, based on the engravings on The Reckoning's chassis)

But only 3 of those bullets are actually on the gun's model. The names are Elise, the Archaeologist, Elwood, most likely Elwood Finch, and Richard, who I have no idea

Aside from wondering about the Prodigal Daughter's backstory, do we have the other two bullets anywhere? Or is there no way to know the other two people?

Side note, I believe the description of The Harbinger is describing Anna's death

[opaque glade]

Emp, why are you now the lore guy here?

[hasty raven]

Her being the owner it was turned against, and the corpse it was pried from being her murderer that the Prodigal Daughter killed

[hasty raven]

I am the lore guy wherever I go

[opaque glade]

Cool

[hasty raven]

a curse or blessing

The lore documents pinned here are both a bit sloppy and outdated, by the way. I heard the guy who wrote them is gone

[opaque glade]

did he go on a Hunt and lose a showdown?

[hasty raven]

I would revise them if I could

[hasty raven]

I think he was kicked off the dev team for something

Not very informed on it

[hasty raven]

moving over from #off-topic...

Has anyone ever talked about how the Revenant is literally a zonbi

I realized it a long time ago, as soon as I saw the Bone Doctor resurrecting him in the Dark Sight trailer, but never mentioned it

Part of the reason I realized it was because of how the concept of zombies comes from the 'zonbi' in voodoo, I believe

[visual finch]

zonbi have no will and are living people drugged to the brim tho

[hasty raven]

They were made to serve the person who resurrected them, like the Revenant being resurrected by the Bone Doctor and later partnering with the Reverend as well

I'm going to research more about zonbi

[merry island]

He just sorta turned around and left the after life

[visual finch]

mh yes, in the myth the people were revived

[hasty raven]

This line especially, especially fits the Bone Doctor

Minus the part where he killed the Revenant himself

Isn't Bone Doctor the one who was formerly a slave or was that the leader of the Night of the Hunters cult?

If he was a slave then he could have easily been directly kidnapped from Africa

yes he was a slave

Born in Senegal, which is in the northwest of Africa, instead of South Africa though

[visual finch]

But WHY specifically the Revenant?

[hasty raven]

Maybe there is no reason. Maybe it's because he was the freshest corpse, or because he was a dead Hunter (but I don't know if he was a Hunter already before being killed, I'd assume so because... well, it'd be funny to induct a zombie into the AHA)

[hasty raven]

oh and I only included the lines about the zombie-staffed trains in this screenshot because I thought it was interesting but not related

[visual finch]

Or maybe he's just a first experiment. Bone Doctor if i remember correctly have his own AHA branch

[hasty raven]

Really? Or are you confusing it with the Night of the Hunter?

[opaque glade]

or maybe he found him randomly?

[hasty raven]

The Night Seer is the leader of the Night of the Hunter, not Bone Doctor

[opaque glade]

Did the Seer lead him

[hasty raven]

He deliberately entered the graveyard and pulled the Revenant out of the ground

[opaque glade]

which he could've seen at a distance

actually, what if he heard about someone dying?

[hasty raven]

oh no you're right Amon, the Bone Doctor did have his own 'following' of Hunters

[opaque glade]

and went to check it out

[opaque glade]

like other voodoo people

like that one person... what was her name?

[hasty raven]

Weird Sister

[opaque glade]

more like Weird Name

[visual finch]

Oh ok i was checking it out too

now i'm in danger

[hasty raven]

cocks Nitro

[opaque glade]

[hasty raven]

I could have sworn there was a Bone Doctor emote

I'll make do

[opaque glade]

[hasty raven]

[opaque glade]

is that it?

[hasty raven]

yes thank you

fixed

I like to think that ever since the Bone Doctor zombified the Revenant, he kind of just loans him out to other Hunters