feedback-discussion

[unborn smelt]

the thing is the dmg calc is somewhat complicated

if they just put a table in there nobody's gonna realize how it works and many people will complain why their armshots wont kill because they don't use the table right

we already have that to a degree with the tables and formula being on the wiki

[steel comet]

Yeah. I doubt everyone is aware that they often tag arms too, which might be why they prefer to run uppercut since they usually get that double tap but not when they run officer.

[burnt mulch]

tbf the stats ingame do suck donkey sausage

[unborn smelt]

for examples modifiers are:
1.3 for upper torso
1.0 for lower torso
0.8 on arms
0.7 on legs

[burnt mulch]

why they decided the number they put as damage in the stats isnt the 1.0 modifier is beyond me.

[steel comet]

Well that's because the damage stats says true damage dealt to upper torso.

[unborn smelt]

what usually happens is people say for example the vetterli deals 130 dmg - a leg shot is 0.7x dmg so a legshot would deal 91 dmg.
But that's not correct

[burnt mulch]

right, but as that ^ example demonstrates, it very easily leads to misunderstandings

[unborn smelt]

The real dmg formula looks like this:

([store dmg value 130 for vetterli] / [upper body multiplier 1.3]) = base dmg 100 base dmg for vetterli

from there you then apply modifiers

[ base dmg ] x [ range modifier ] x [ limb modifier ]

[burnt mulch]

which is overly complicated tbh.

the damage stat on the store is intuitively the base dmg of the gun.

the fact that it isn’t is an unnecessary source of confusion

not to mention handcannons and the shotgun damage stat

[pallid idol]

I feel like an issue with listing the base damage instead of the upper torso damage is that, for a newcomer, it is not intuitive at all that the listed damage is not the highest damage possible outside of headshots

[burnt mulch]

which is why it’s better to just have different damage zone’s damage listed in the stats page somewhere

like in a popup window when hovering over the damage

[steel comet]

From what I've seen, most new players don't understand what the effective range means. They also don't know about fall off damage.

[burnt mulch]

ideally we’d have upper torso be the 1.0 multiplier number, then multiply by 0.X for other hit zones, but there may be some rounding errors with the current math

[burnt mulch]

that too.

not to mention the different headshot multipliers for different ammo types

tl;dr the ingame stats suck

[pallid idol]

Quite
Also some ammos have different damage multipliers against certain AI and I don't think the game even mentions it

[half arch]

So an easy way to add a table like this would be something along the lines of: Select gun, select ammo sub-type, select range, select body part. They can guess for bullet pen

One of the biggest problems I see with that is people trying to min max but that's the glory of Hunt, anyone can kill anyone

[steel comet]

You're probably thinking about bullets but this is pretty funny:
Throwing axes one-hit armored in stomach and upper torso. Concertina armored are killable with headshot - throwing axes.
Crossbow can't one hit kill armoreds at all and got higher true damage.

[pallid idol]

Yeah forgot about those too

[steel comet]

Might be a balance thing since poison bolt exist and now even poison arrow.

[half arch]

I just want an in-game solution to the problem of "How in the holy hell did I not kill that guy with two solid, I think, Pax shots to the stomach."

[steel comet]

I think stomach + arm hit kills with pax. Before damage fall off.

I think I've killed people with that

[burnt mulch]

I think selecting the range would fall under a damage calculator and be too interactive to be good as a quick reference
a better solution would be two “windows” when hovering the damage stat: a table for bodypart damage with 0 falloff, and a falloff graph

[ornate cargo]

It's only a suggestion, after all :)

[frosty garnet]

@lusty pawn, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

add "retardation"to the language filter if the latter is also added.```

[lusty pawn]

hm

[frosty garnet]

@bronze granite, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Remove Mosin Automatic bs gun. Add something realistic. ![HuntDoge](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/596351643847622658.webp?size=128 "HuntDoge")```

[bronze granite]

Like Remove Mosin Automatic bullshit gun. Add something realistic. Worst bs in a game.

[frosty garnet]

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Would be great if you could change your sensitivity for different weapon types.
I struggle with having the same sensitivity for noscope rifles as i have it for shotguns. 
Would be great to have the option to set a higher sensitivity for shotguns than i have for the rifles. 

And a weapon trading system inside your lobby with your friends.```

[frosty garnet]

@ornate star, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

get killcam! now!```

[vague patio]

someone wants a time out

[sacred raven]

Imagine having holo/red dot sights

[thorny umbra]

if crytek does not start to plan their updates better and fix their bugs properly. They are going to start losing players, even i am getting tired of the unreliability of this game... people will only handle this kind of treatment for a specific timeframe. I mean, we the players cannot even count on that the game is working as intended because of bugs. and we cannot count on that the game is available during the peak hours of gaming. I have experienced so many times that updates, restarts etc. is during primetime of gaming (e.g. in the weekend, or in the evening during a weekday).

[uneven steppe]

well I can accept some server disruption, but not the greedy chary contract BS

[quartz viper]

@hoary mortar I get the idea, but wouldn't that make abusing the system easier? But I agree that Bounty Hunt and Quickplay MMR should be separated.

[frosty garnet]

@sacred raven, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

ppl see them, waste all the ammo and move on, gl using them in 6*```

[hoary mortar]

Highly depends on your elo, whether you play teams/solo, who you kill and who you die to - if you play solo vs. trios and wipe the server, you don't gain much but dying to players sometimes borderline two stars lower than you will drop you drastically. If you experience this in duos vs. duos with SBMM on, something isn't working or you're missing some info

[quartz viper]

@dull prawn Agree with the price reduction for the Dolch, not sure if that will do for the Bornheim, however. It's basically a glorified Derringer and I think it needs an actual buff.
And while I'm at it: The Machete and the regular, basic Nagant are also barely seen. I think they need something that makes them stick out. A reason to pick them over their competitors.

[hoary mortar]

Separating QP and BH MMR (or having QP not affect your BH MMR) is the first step towards preventing that abuse. The second would be reworking the MMR system so that kills aren't the only factor in determining skill (and I know many people will hard disagree on that, but I think in a game like Hunt where PvP is central but not the only thing that determines how good one is at the game, focusing purely on that PvP performance is lazy design)

[uneven steppe]

@whole ridge@lucid orbit@quartz viper@warm zephyr@wraith oak agreed

[little sand]

Take away exploding crossbow bolt 1 shot capabilities

[sick anvil]

Well when it happens ist mostly in trios we run as a trio . and the mmr swings like a pendulum one day we are up 5 star then couple of matches we fall down to 2 star

[hoary mortar]

Imagine if the same thing would happen in other competitive games that require a similar amount of dedication. I don't think it's very enjoyable in a game like Hunt, especially for 2-star players who have to face players who were 4-5 stars just yesterday

[sick anvil]

and it takes whole lot more to go up so its more like we are 4 star team all 4 stars we dies once twice drop down in 3 star and we stay there even when we sweep the map back to back

[hoary mortar]

again, highly depends on who you kill and who you die to, the amount of kills doesn't matter as much as the amount of MMR we're talking about

[quartz viper]

No, I agree, probably more things should go in the MMR. Even for PVP. Didn't they post an article some time ago saying they basically have a system that could do that and it would just take some tweaking of numbers? Maybe rising and falling should generally be slower, I'm just not sure if making them different speeds would be that beneficial.

[gaunt lantern]

What would you propose goes into the formula of MMR?

You know, aside from PvP performance

What, besides who and how many people you kill, could be used to effectively determine what fair matchups look like?

[tranquil hill]

The bounty should be significantly more valuable. At the moment it is so that the players prefer to wait for a second kill than to run to the bounty and prevent them from extracting. If you play duo as an example and one of the duo is dead

[tranquil hill]

Totally agree with you

[coarse geyser]

I don't understand why people get so angry about this gun, I've gotten killed by it maybe 3 times in my 1k hours

[quartz viper]

Maybe an indicator of survivability like Deaths/Match. Maybe assists should be included in some way. Generally I think the system shouldn't be so swingy just because of a single match. On the other hand I think overall stats change to slowly to be actually useful. Some middle ground has to be found. Maybe an average over the last 50 matches or so?
I also feel like something should be done with bosses/trophies, but on the other hand would that probably lead to people abusing it...

[bronze granite]

I play this game because there is no machine gun bs. Yet there is some experimental bs Ak-01 Mosin. Wtf.

[coarse geyser]

And you only see it every 200 hours of game play and most of the time if you don't play dumb you can easily beat it

[bronze granite]

Some lame excuses. Don't bother.

[coarse geyser]

I admit its a dumb gun to be in the game, but it doesn't make a big difference is what I'm saying.

[spice topaz]

There is an influx of nitros and avtos for some reason but you are correct to say you rarely see them since they will not go for gauntlet.

[hoary mortar]

It's a bandaid for a deep issue for sure, I just don't have the data to work with to propose a more complex solution. Like I don't know what can be tracked in game and what can be used as a metric to calculate skill

[tribal wyvern]

Ye in 3star maybe

[coarse geyser]

You telling me you die to avtos more than you kill them, or not seeing them often?

[tribal wyvern]

Seeing them very often.

5 games i had collected 4 avtos

And my team went full trio avtos aswell because we had found so many

[coarse geyser]

What's your mmr?

[tribal wyvern]

4.5star in solo

So 5star

Is what i mean with 4.5 star

[rain rune]

MAKE THE EVENT POINT BUFFS USABLE AND NOT AUTOMATIC

[coarse geyser]

I'm 5 as well, can't send proof because I'm camping tho

[tribal wyvern]

lmao

[coarse geyser]

I can send proof that I'm camping lol

[spice topaz]

Cain cosplay?

[sand roost]

cringe

PLEASE FIX THE SPECIAL AMMO SWAPPING/LEMAT REVOLVER/SHOTGUN MODE BUG, WHICH MAKES THE GUN UNSHOOTABLE AND UNRELOADABLE.

ITS SO ANNOYING TRYING TO LITERALLY JUST SWAP BULLETS OR SHOOT WITH THE SHOTGUN AND FIND OUT THAT ITS NOT CAPABLE OF DOING NONE OF THAT ANYMORE. ITS A REALLY OLD BUG SO PLEASE CONSIDER FIXING IT ALREADY IM REALLY DISAPPOINTED.

[vague patio]

@eager widget tbh, ive have weird experiences with martini, it say it has worse handling but i have always experienced it with better handling

[eager widget]

Compare the hipfires

[sand roost]

Martini best no exceptions

go with the sword version and its always best

or then go with avtomat if you dont want to use martini

thats what i always do

[tribal wyvern]

You've truly figured out how to get devs attention.
Everyone knows that people read capslock, we should just have capslock as default.

[sand roost]

you're a nonce

[tribal wyvern]

Im sorry i can't read it, could you rewrite it in capslock, so it brings to my attention.
Perhaps the CMs & mods & devs will read it to, we can read it together.
Considering people surely gave a shat, about what u wrote before.

[sand roost]

nonce

[desert nest]

Uhh, I think my suggestion was deleted. It was the Browning gas operated pistol

Did I miss a rule and that' why it was deleted?

[eager widget]

Unsure, I saw it myself. Did you have a title: in it?

[desert nest]

Yes, yes I did

[bronze quail]

You are really close to 6 stars btw

[eager widget]

Hmm..

[bronze quail]

And I'm finding at least one avto each match too

[vague patio]

ask the mods via @muted zealot. I had something like that happen some time ago, and one looked into butfound nothing. maybe buggybot or something, but if you do something wrong, mods tell youwhy it got deleted

[desert nest]

I might have accidentally deleted it myself, I am on mobile

Probably fat-fingered

And it's gone again

[desert nest]

How do I do that again? Been a while

Do I just DM mod mail?

[dim heron]

@desert nest sorry idk if this has been answered but it's the link shortener you have in the post

[desert nest]

OH

How do I fix that

[dim heron]

just remove the link shortener lol, you can use the full size link if you want.

[desert nest]

Okay

[dim heron]

https://images.app.goo.gl/jZE9CiSKoivGtZZz7

it's this

I think

the goo.gl is a link shortener and unfortunately we have to remove em

do you have your post saved?

I can dm it to you

[desert nest]

Ah. How come if I may ask? Just a bit curious as to the inner workings

[desert nest]

Oh, yeah, I copied it

[dim heron]

Because scammers have been using link shorteners to get around filters and stuff

so we just had to block them all :/

[desert nest]

Oof. Understanable

[dim heron]

it's a bit of a pain ik :c

[desert nest]

So, I know there's a bit of a dislike for semi auto firearms in the game, and there's good reason for that. But in regards to my colt prototype idea, I think it could really work. It's weird, clunky and just fits hunt.

It just needs some adjustments, and I'd like suggestions on those.any thoughts?

[eager widget]

People's arguments against it are going to be
A. It's already part of a quite large niche that's getting flooded with new pistols that are too alike one another. If it's anything like the dolch in the past, they definitely don't want it.
B. It's a semi-auto. People like it traditional with bolt actions and levers and single shots. They're playing the game for slow paced gameplay, and they don't want anymore high speed things.

My take on it, while it is a neat idea. I just don't think we need another semi-automatic pistol.

[desert nest]

That's fair actually. You really can't deferentiate between alot of the semi auto pistols in the game, or IRL cause well... They’re all pretty much the same.

I do think it can still work i some way. Perhaps as a high recoil, 2 tap to the body only? The high recoil causes you to have to actually pace yourself? The dolch, in my experiance, doesn't need that.

[eager widget]

Unsure. I have no idea on how to balance semi-autos.

Just look at what happened to the New Army, it got pretty much nerfed into the ground because I don't think the devs even know how to balance it.

[desert nest]

Well, if you lower the damage, to I think 94, or maybe 91 it's actually a two tap as long as you hit them in the chest. Anyware else, other the head its a 3 tap.

[eager widget]

Hunters have 150 HP. Two shots would be anything above 74 to the chest.

[desert nest]

That's true. The New army was fine beforehand, all it needed was a little ROF decrease IMO, not a muzzle velocity nerf.

[desert nest]

Correct, but I know that with the damage values, there's an upper limit to how low it can be, while only being a two tap to the upper chest. I remember a while ago someone said it was 91.

[eager widget]

Wha

Are you talking about not being able to two tap to the stomach with it and only the torso, and it being 91 damage there only?

Cause, that makes sense.

[desert nest]

Yes. Essentialy, with 91 damage as the value, ypu will only two tap to the upperchest.

I'm just not good at words

[warm zephyr]

@sly glacier idts. because this game decides how much ammo you pick up from ammo boxes by the reserve ammo you have and balances around that

[sly glacier]

you might not be aware but if you have an empty gun, that guns (loaded) ammo moves to your reserve pool if you pick up more ammo

so if you run double uppercuts, you can have 12/18 or 0/30

helps when you are using an avtomat

[dull prawn]

If they wanted to buff the Bornhiem to match its current price I wouldn't be opposed to that, but I doubt that sentiment is shared. The gun was nerfed for a reason after all and personally I don't mind it being weak in terms of firepower - the real gun its based on was disliked for the same reason since it fired a very small, fairly low-powered cartridge and it was a finnicky mess to maintain.

The rendition of it in Hunt - stat wise - is pretty good I feel: it's fast firing with a quick reload and an abundant ammo source (if small reserve pool, which does make some kind of sense since the real Bergmann pistol used a specialised propriatary cartridge) it just isn't worth the price given how other similar pistols cost far, far less. The Officer, New Model Army and Scottfield with fanning all either compete with or completely outclass the Bornhiem, and that in of itself wouldn't be a problem if the Bornhiem was cheap. Not every gun can be on equal footing, after all, but the tradeoff for taking a less powerful weapon should be getting it much easier, and right now the Bornhiem is both underperforming in stats and ludicrously expensive. It should be one or the other, not both

[shy glacier]

damn, I thought it was the 97

[warm zephyr]

ahem. what i meant is they have to change a whole system for what you wnat to happen

[subtle elbow]

Yeah. It was built around firing black powder and could not slam fire

[shy glacier]

the game takes place in what year?

the newst gun ive seen in game is 1895

[burnt mulch]

pretty sure it’s 1895, but stuff is fudged around, like the dolch

[frosty garnet]

@rich tusk, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Can we get more then 10 loadouts slots?
I really want a lot more loadouts slots.```

[rich tusk]

50

really

hmm where at?

do you know?

i only have 10

no more

[solemn turtle]

are you talking about pre-made loadout slots?

[rich tusk]

yes

not hunter slots

[solemn turtle]

yeah I think that was were you were confused tak

[rich tusk]

yes 50 hunter slot

only 10 load out slots

[solemn turtle]

Yeah I'm sure it's only 10 loadout slots then

[rich tusk]

well we need more

XD

thanks for the help thou!

[solemn turtle]

speaking of loadout slots I do wish we could pick and choose individual items to buy

Like say if I have a loadout with a weapon with custom ammo but I don't have it unlocked after I prestige I should be able to tick the custom ammo and disable it but still buy everything else in the loadout

[rich tusk]

100 percent!!

[solemn turtle]

I might be only saying this cause I don't have the flare pistol yet and all of my loadouts are invalid because of it

[rich tusk]

lol

same with knuckle knife for me

[stiff lance]

I know trade window is a more common talking point these days but honestly, i just feel like the trade window is so generous at the moment that it makes playing any short range loadout totally pointless and unenjoyable. Really hope they revert it back or improve it in a future patch.

[late wind]

Why are people asking for a second long ammo pistol? Do you really need to feed your mosin that bad?

[burnt mulch]

as a competitor to the uppercut as a long range sidearm?

[late wind]

We don't need a long range sidearm. Sidearms are just that. Sidearms. If you want a second weapon to reach out and touch people you should have to run quartermaster.

[burnt mulch]

the point of a long range sidearm is to make having a short range main gun more viable.

many one slot short range sidearms have performance comparable to main weapons, like the officer, handcrossbow, and lemat slug.
what’s inherently wrong about a sidearm that can cover longer ranges?

[late wind]

The uppercut makes medium/compact rifles completely pointless. We don't need more of that.

So again. If you want something that can reach out and touch people as your secondary, run a sawn off rifle.

But why would you, when a pistol is better in every way?

See the problem here?

[frozen crater]

except the pistol is subpar at close range compared to other pistols. you compare the uppercut to medium slot weapons but fail to compare it to small slot weapons at close range

what you get in medium range capability you lose in close range practicality

[burnt mulch]

the problem I’m seeing is that 2 slot rifles are shit.

[frozen crater]

But I can't really argue that it isnt a better choice than sawn off rifles the majority of the time because of its damage drop off and lack of needing quartermaster to run

[burnt mulch]

like, what medium rifles do we even have? mobrez, vandal, and springy?

[frozen crater]

Depends if you want to include precision variants in there

But even then, scottfield fmj seems like the only one that would match up to those 2 slots at range

[burnt mulch]

the only precision worth mentioning is scottfield and thats only because it has fmj.

yeah.

[frozen crater]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-handshake-metal-gear-rising-raiden-metal-gear-hug-gif-25003613

[burnt mulch]

The idea of a good long range focused pistol/medium rifle is great. Uppercut is just the only thing in that niche, and is unfortunately also used (abused) for ammo, which is a separate problem.

(on a related note, 124 dmg pax gib pls)

[late wind]

If this thing winds up existing, whatever its form, it has to take special for the sake of balance.

[burnt mulch]

you could give it the dolch treatment (special with the same attributes as long pistol)
you could make it single shot with low ammo pool
you could make full long ammo less viable overall through other design decisions

there’s a lot of ways to take it

[frozen crater]

Is it so bad that the uppercut competes with 2 slot rifles? Is its price not fair considering that it costs significantly more than the other 2 slots minus the mobrez? I genuinely don't know the community's opinion on balancing guns based on pricing.

[late wind]

Gonna have to hard disagree. Sans rate of fire, there's nothing a different pistol does that the uppercut can't do better. Range. Damage. Penetration. Velocity.

Plus it can use fanning so its base RoF doesn't really cripple it that much. Plus unlike other pistols, it can one tap a hunter in the chest if they're missing a measly little 25 chunk.

[burnt mulch]

firerate is pretty damn important though since it determines ttk and makes it more forgiving

[late wind]

If people actually prestieged then maybe money would be a valid argument. But most people don't. So price doesn't matter.

[frozen crater]

Except ROF dictates a large amount of cqb, and fanning on the uppercut is well known to have the worst rof of all pistols. Range and velocity are more important outside of cqb, but you do have a point with its ability to 1 tap a hunter who previously died

Its reload speed is also extremely slow and makes engaging multiple teams in close range much more uncomfortable

[burnt mulch]

price is absolutely valid. It just shouldn’t be used to justify something that shouldnt exist in the first place.

which uppercut is not.

the only thing that makes the uppercut unhealthy is the fact that long rifles exist

[late wind]

There's more than that that makes it "unhealthy". It completely outclasses compact/medium ammo rifles. And makes sawed off rifles pointless by only being one slot. It's a lot more than feeding/being fed by long ammo rifles, but you are right that it's a huge part of the problem.

If the devs just gave it the dolch trestment I'd be happy. Absurdly expensive, special ammo, one spare "mag" of ammo.

If the Dolch is 750$, then a flat 500$ for the uppercut is more than fair.

[frozen crater]

Is it so bad that it outclasses certain 2 slots?

I mean, the same can be said for the mobrez outclassing 3 slots

[late wind]

As a pistol, yes. Because I'd argue it also outclasses a few three slots as well.

[frozen crater]

And wouldn't its price of 275 being several times more expensive than other 2 slots (minus the mobrez) justify its power? I do think its ammo pool is a problem and that it power creeps on a lot of guns, but I'm not sure if nerfing the uppercut's price would be the answer

[frozen crater]

I think thats where I disagree based on personal experience, but personal experience isnt really objective

I think it can compete with 3 slots, but it has significantly worse handling than 3 slots and limits its longer-mid/long range capabilities significantly compared to all 3 slot rifles.

But thats just personal experience talking.

[late wind]

In my experience, both using it and fighting against it; it completely demolishes the winnie-c in all its forms, beats every stocked pistol easily, usually outdoes the centennial, and edges out the base vetterli simply because it only needs one slot versus three.

In extremely niche settings the uppercut gets beat by these weapons, but those situations are few and far between.

[frozen crater]

I completely agree with you that the uppercut can defeat the winnie/centie at close and medium range, but these guns WILL have a better chance at beating it at range. The winnie c is also one of the lowest tier 3 slots in the game, and I believe it would make sense that one of the highest tier secondaries can compete against it. I also believe the centennial needs a buff and is just outclasses in every field by other guns its supposed to compete against.

But at this point were entering personal preferences and thoughts so we may be taking this convo nowhere lol

[late wind]

Don't get me wrong, there are aspects about all of these guns that give it a situational edge over the uppercut, but generally speaking; the uppercut is the better weapon. And maybe instead of introducing a new weapon to compete, and further drive other weapons into obscurity, maybe we should focus on reeling this gun in first.

[frozen crater]

I completely agree with the idea of looking at current weapons first, and I do agree that the uppercut is the preferred weapon by a large margin over a lot of other 1 and 2 slots. I think its fine we disagree on the level of nerfs it deserves, but I definitely do think it offers too many generous upsides in the current meta.

[late wind]

Honestly, I'd actually like to see ammo as a whole reworked simply because of the uppercut. You could create new and interesting synergies between guns and encourage the use of underused guns by reworking it.

[quartz viper]

The only medium slot weapon the Uppercut really competes with is the Obrez. Nagant and Scottfield Precision, the Vandal and the Bornheim Match are just meant for shorter distances, with higher ROF but bad damage drop. They don't round out a Shotgun loadout too well. To be really competitive you need to spend ~300 Dollars on an Uppercut or Obrez. With a ranged main weapon on the other hand you can just buy a cheap high ROF pistol to get some close range capability. Or use fanning (which Uppercut sucks at). I think adding a cheap single shot long ammo pistol wouldn't be that bad. I personally would prefer the Werder or Mauser, but the Rolling Block thing also doesn't look too bad. Not sure the Henry pistol really existed. At least at the time the game takes place. The Montenegrin revolver looks cool visually, not sure if it wouldn't be to close to the Uppercut. Don't think we need more Mosin stuff.
If anything I'd say nerf the Uppercuts handling and maby rate of fire.

[quartz viper]

I mean yeah sure it's definitely overpriced, but it's also the only gun in the game that can't at least theoretically double tap to the chest. Increasing the damage by 1 point would still only allow it to do that within 10m, if I understand damage drop correctly. Do you think that would make it OP, with shotguns and fanning in the game? And having only 5 shots when you have to hit 3-4 of them also is not great. The Extended is kina OK in that regard, but hasn't the quick reload.
Then on the other hand would it be in the same price range as the Officer/Spitfire/New Army I probably would play it from time to time, just for the fun of it.

[burnt mulch]

compact pistol ammo starts dropping at 20m.

[dull prawn]

Me, personally? No, I don't think that would make the Bornhiem overpowered. However, it seems that both Crytek and large portions of the Hunt playerbase disagree, as it originally did have the ability to two-tap just like the other fast shooting pistols, and that's what originally caused people to get in a tizzy about it and demand a nerf.

While I wouldn't be opposed to it getting a buff, I know plenty of folks in Hunt would oppose that, so I decided for my suggestion it'd be best to leave well enough alone and just focus on having the prices adjusted to match the two gun's position in the meta. If the Bornhiem was a cheap little peashooter whose appeal came from being a fast reloading, faster shooting semi-auto unlocked reletively early in the bloodline, I'd be fine with that. I've used the Bornhiem in its current state and enjoyed how it feels, despite its anemic damage output - the thing that stops me, and others from buyin it is simply the price.

[half arch]

Quick scoping should not be a thing in this game

[vague patio]

tbh, there are a lot of other things it can be buffed with than damage. thats the main reason i think its overvalued

the identity of it now is headclicker/finisher

[near reef]

does using poison ammo counts for poison item progression ? 🤔

[vague patio]

no

it counts towards the weapon tree which you are using

[near reef]

😦

[pallid idol]

I feel like a simple recoil reduction and a less annoying sway would already do wonder to help the bornheim
Also a tiny bit more reserve ammo

[thick ruin]

NGL I kind of wish combat revives were stressed in the tutorial, it feels like a lot of randoms think theyre rambo and will try a 1v3 rather than revive when given a chance

[bronze quail]

Bornehim was super nerfed cause of the compact ammo buff of 1.3
Before 1.3 it was ok, but after the compact ammo buff bornehim was able to 2 tap up to something like 60m. It was a super cheap weapon with high dmg and rof. So it was nerfed like it is right now.
I think that back at the time it was a fine nerf, but atm is the only weapon that was nerfed on a way that made players totally quit playing it. (Except for match version after the dmg buff)

[frosty garnet]

@eager cobalt, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Moth boss```

[eager cobalt]

moth boss

[frigid sparrow]

brings flashlight

[fast solstice]

People who have cheats are starting to grow here, please do something about it, in the last 3 days I have met 5 people who have them

[honest heron]

Tell me, is 4 buckshot hits to the chest cheating?

[wispy snow]

That's probably just buckshot being bad.

[vague patio]

if your aim is shitr, yea

or if they are to far away

[honest heron]

5 meters to point blank all hit markers?

[plush ledge]

play slugs when you don't want the buckshot rng

[vague patio]

@limpid siren just dont prestige

they areworking on making it more appealing anyway

[plush ledge]

Now I'm kinda curious in what world are 78m irons headshots sus ?

[limpid siren]

@vague patio but it's the only way to get the legendary skins. to "just not prestige" follows the same logic as saying "don't be sad" when u r sad. and, as I show in my thread, there r better ways to keep it fair after going into prestige and stay on same MMR. So why not use them?

[unborn smelt]

it's not ?

Oh you mean the prestige reward skins

[limpid siren]

yeah, in the first prestigelevels u can get a weaponskin

[unborn smelt]

Well yes - you get those for overcoming the selfimposed challenge that is prestiging. All the other non DLC skins you can get without prestiging by amassing bloodbonds

But the point of prestiging is to be a selfimposed challenge starting from the very beginning again making that too easy would kind of defeat the purpose of having a prestige system, and for gameplay prestiging is deliberatly not mandatory - if the payoff is worth the hassle is for the individual player to decide.

Altho ngl i'd love to see better prestige rewards

[tribal wyvern]

I hope with prestiging that they ease on the weapon unlocks.
Like for example, knuckleknife, throwing knife, heavy knife should not be 2.5k xp each.
Same with custom ammos & a few weapon variations.
Even more so now when they reduced weapon value by ALOT when selling. Went from like what 80% down to 50%?

Besides that i think the prestiging is just fine.
Usually i go cheap until i get around 8k+ then i start spending.
And it's a good way to challenge yourself, like only springfield prestige or only winfield prestige etc. You can get really good with weapons that way, forcing yourself to play it.

It's very easy to get locked & comfortable with only playing long ammo weapons. It's very good to get rich in the game if you git gud with cheaper variations.
I remember getting to 40k in not to long time only playing with winfields & having an arsenal of mosins, uppercuts etc.

[bronze quail]

I was trying to find out how, but I can't

[frosty garnet]

@torn sage, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

let me enable skill play in quickplay please. im only lvl 50 getting smoked by lvl 2100's. further more all my hunters have bright volord shirts and the other hunter are basiclly in full camo... needless to say im not even trying to win in quick. ill just keep using it to farm event tokens.```

[frosty garnet]

@near raptor, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Hi, i just made a post on steam discussions for a new PVE gamemode. Feel free to comment any constructive idea. https://steamcommunity.com/app/594650/discussions/8/3271309684528434330/```

[whole ridge]

Is there a way to move the HUD elements? I want them on the outside corners of the screen but they are more towards the center?

[burnt mulch]

use the UI scaling options, theres no way to directly move the UI elements individually

[vague patio]

wanting kkk in the game sure is something....

especially when the devs talked about that they dont want to fokus on the horrible things that happened back then

[pliant wren]

Yeah, let's not. Such things just turn into a clusterfuck no matter how you approach it.

[frosty garnet]

@ivory wind, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Please, please, please add a solo bounty hunt mode. It would make the game so much more enjoyable and would make so many players, (myself included,) want to come back. There are many days we just don't want to log on because we either have to play with teammates who are let's just say not like-minded or get simultaneously pinned from two angles when we are by ourselves. I feel like the game would run quite nicely in solo, and even if it doesn't, you can always extract. The games would be intense, but not terribly campy. We'd all love the extra option of hopping in by ourselves when nobody is online without being at a blatant disadvantage.```

[burnt mulch]

@ivory wind they had solo bounty hunt. It was shit. They released quickplay instead.

[vague patio]

@tardy prairie counting only does something if there was a massive fight and you know where everybody died, the second two teams fought somewhere else you cant be sure and it would give you more info, same with non-full lobbies

[keen bolt]

Can anyone tell me what's the purpose of the New 92 revolver??

Cause that's one gun I don't understand why

[wind stream]

I would wager its to give some more variety in the double action revolver area

so it isnt just the officer

[keen bolt]

I think it's worse than the officer even

But more expensive

[eager widget]

People will argue for the sake of FMJ. It's just a worse officer overall with a couple meters more two shot range without FMJ.
And with FMJ, it's meh at best due to it literally being sub-nagant silenced muzzle velocity. the gun is not good.

[keen bolt]

I see

So I'm not the only one thinking that

[wind stream]

I prefer it over the officer, the lower recoil is great imo

[eager widget]

Lower Recoil and the sights are the true arguments for it.

And even then, I just don't like the gun. The muzzle velocity absolutely kills it.

[keen bolt]

Exactly

[eager widget]

And it's really disappointing, as I like the gun's look and sounds. They overnerfed the fuck out of it.

[keen bolt]

I'd say if I want FMJ I'd go with the spitty

More damage range handling and ...uh most things basically

[vague patio]

they shouldve made it single action😔

such a nice revolver, the officer firerate was just too much

[keen bolt]

How?

[pallid idol]

It should not have been a New Army then
The new army specifically was the first double-action revolver issued to the US army

[vague patio]

sorry, missed a word

yea i dont have gun knowledge

point is, 100 firerate bad

[pallid idol]

Agreed

[keen bolt]

I think it's ok for pistols tho

Gives people a chance

At combating another player in specific range

Though gotta outplay them

[tribal wyvern]

Pistols has to be decent & somewhat competitive. Otherwise shotgun players will never leave the buildings. It's already pretty bad now, imagine nerfing pistols.

I usually play compact, medium & long ammo, rarely shotguns. And i can't enter a single building ,theres always a shotgun player in them.
I have to be outside & roaming. Imagine how bad it would be if people can't even compete with their pistols.

My ideal hunt showdown would be no snipers or marksmans, only deadeyes. No big shotguns & no slugs. Medium shotguns can stay.
No fanning & no levering.

[valid spruce]

@shy glacier i love idea about making ragdoll on death but it right now when ur teammate dies, his death pose can actually reveal enemy location. So i really dont wanna see change with death animations.

[shy glacier]

this game has good enough audio that you can hear every gunshot on the map and its compass direction.

plus the ragdoll death system is already implemented for pve objects. with some tweaks to allow the death to be slightly more realistic that instantly falling and sliding away it would be really cool @valid spruce

@signal parcel steamdeck wounbe cool and all but it is so incredibly weak and under powered for modern pc games that it wouldnt be a great time. imagine trying to play this game with a gtx950 and a weak very low power usage 4c cpu

plus unless the things plugged in your looking at much less performance than stated above

[signal parcel]

Thats underselling it

[eager bloom]

Fix your shit hitregs and your shit servers i ll soon have enough clips of no reg shots to fullfill a german datacenter

[warm zephyr]

@lethal oyster wow how easily you ignored the fact that the servers have been unplayable in asia. Not everyone is as priviledged as you yk

[lethal oyster]

That's a completely different issue. I'm talking design decisions, not technical functionality.

[warm zephyr]

so the ones suffering in asia server does not deserve extensions?

[normal horizon]

Feel free to report with said clips so it can be investigated 🙂

[lethal oyster]

I don't know. I don't play on asia so I don't have an opinion on this.

[shy glacier]

its equivalent to a current gen ryzen 5 apu and has vega 10 graphics. think slightly overclocked vega 8

[warm zephyr]

"So honestly o don't understand why people want extensions for the event. Coz first of all you'd have to be extremely lazy on the game to not make it, in which case you don't deserve the rewards anyway."

Yet you sound so condescending. curious.

[shy glacier]

with 16 gb shared system memory between gpu and cpu

[shy glacier]

how tf is this a privilege thing lmao. we dony live in asia therefor we do not care about troubles on the asian servers lol

[warm zephyr]

he means that servers are unplayable. yet this is the response we expect from crytek?

[normal horizon]

I meant the hit reg issues the person i responded to is mentioning

[lethal oyster]

I'm not sure what you want. I'm very obviously talking about the regular player who doesn't suffer crippling performance issues. Dude, of course, not being able to play is different to just not putting the effort in.

[warm zephyr]

read his comment in the feedback channel

[shy glacier]

he was talking about hitreg issues lol

also if there are issues with the server hosting company in asia they will fix it lol

just not imidiate concern

[warm zephyr]

They will fix it huh

asia servers have been terrible for ages now and there were no lack of feedbacks regarding to it

yet here we are

[lethal oyster]

it's weird tho how only in the past few days i have heard of this particular issue. And all of a sudden i hardly hear anything else. It's like a dam has broken

[warm zephyr]

asia server players have to queue for at least 15mins into a game only to have down right unplayable games

because the event is grindy and people can't get points

imagine you have the contract and it's ticking down while the game says the servers are full

[lethal oyster]

so it wasn't an issue before? People have been complaining about server issues for ages now. just not the asia ones

[warm zephyr]

and when you load in you get pl high ping and get disconnected every 3 minutes

it was but it became worse during the event because of the traffic

this is the time where people are usually home after work so the problems are magnified

asia servers has had package loss since forever

constantly 250+ backend ping

imagine living in southeast asia and having to share server capacity with people all over there at china. SEA needs our own server but with the devs lack of response to server feedbacks I don't see this coming to fruition anytime at all

[lethal oyster]

tbh, devs hardly ever respond directly to complaints. that doesn't really mean anything. a lot of things got fixed and improved without much prior mention from crytek

plus they have explicitly stated they will be working on performance and server issues so i don't really know what you're talking about

[signal parcel]

Nope

[warm zephyr]

ok let's say we don't get the extension and asia servers don't get fixed before the event ends (which i think is highly likely). In that case, do you think it is just that people that can only play in asia servers being deprived of getting the events stuff normally and being forced to use bloodbonds to buy what should have been free?

also, the 2020 xmas bundle was like 30usd give or take. 30 USD is A LOT in asia.

[lethal oyster]

I think that's one of these unfortunate truths in life we just have to live with. Although I don't really know how blood bonds would help since all but one of the event items can't be unlocked through blood bonds.

I'm afraid uniform prices is also one of those things that kinda sucks but there's not much to be done about. If they were to fit prices properly onto certain regions, this would open the doors to exploitation and other shady stuff. Best just not to touch it.

[fast solstice]

he heads over the wall without a bounty and gives a hit

[coarse geyser]

I used to play with a gtx560 and a 4 core, minimum settings and got 30-40 frames, it was playable

[warm zephyr]

I appreciate your patient replies. I apologize that I've been seething with anger and replying with said feelings after i saw your feedback and understanding it as people do not deserve the skins because they are lazy.As someone who is trying to grind as much as possible with the spare time i have I think it is unfair to see "servers are full" "There is a problem with online service, functionalities may be disrupted" and dying unfair deaths because i literally can't move or know if I hit that shot. Crytek's apathy towards player feedback is deafening and I'm really killing myself knowing that the great game this is was ruined by such incompetence.

[vale sinew]

I dont know has anyone suggested that event timer should be longer? since there has been so many maintenances and game was 5 or days or more unplayable for many players? (personally i lost 1 week play time because game didnt work). In my opinion it would be fair. 🙂

[shy glacier]

if you hate the reality of corpate game studios so badly go play A and some AA games. AAA studios care more about shareholders than gamers by nature

to play operation harsh doorstep or somthing

[warm zephyr]

not released yet, no?

[shy glacier]

solo demo is out wnd you can play the multiplayer demo with patreon

its really promising for a free community built shooter

even though it is rather barebones currently

[warm zephyr]

yeah i’ve seen the gameplay

i’m excited for what it can bring

[pseudo peak]

They’ve been “explicitly stating” that their gonna work on performance and server issues for the last year and a half-2 years at least lmao, nothing really has changed

[lethal oyster]

Let's wait and see. Considering they're re-introducing that tool and have already done a few things last update makes it seem like they're serious. Although I understand why you're so cynical about this.

[outer wedge]

I see suggestions for medium high velocity and medium poison, both for pistols, maybe what we need is a new medium slot precision pistol, or a carbine, or just add those types of ammo to the precision Scottfield, to help with pairings.

[unborn smelt]

@late wind I think there's a massive flaw in the logic of this idea (https://discordapp.com/channels/350201607788429323/524577494863708180/960310433280049222)

To understand why we first need to understand what MMR is supposed to do - and MMR in Hunt only serves one purpose, being a pure PvP rating because it's used to try and ensure as fair PvP matchups as possible.
If you now introduce non Pvp metrics to MMR it will satart to fail more and more at generating as fair as possible PvP matchups.

A very simplifed example : you have a pretty average player that has a PvP MMR of 2 and a PvE/objective MMR of 2 for a combined 4, the next player is more PvP focused and has a PvP MMR of 3 and a PvE one of 1 for also a combined 4 MMR and you got the max level tryhard that deliberately doesn#t take any bounty to be ranked as low as possible with a PvP MMR of 4 and a PvE MMr of nearing 0.
In your example the MMR system would think PvP wise it's fair to pit those 3 players against each other even tho they differ wildly in actual PvP rating, because the PvE / objective part waters the system down.

So at the very least the MMR that includes PvE would need to be seperate from the one that is used to try and ensure fair PvP matchups. So in essence a ranked "mode" where the tryhards can compete for biggest imaginary number, based on KD and all possible sorts of objective and PvE stats. while leaving the actual MMR alone so it can still do it's job as reliable as possible

[late wind]

I'd accept that argument if there were no existing non PvP factors that could effect MMR. But the simple fact of Hunt is that there is a lot beyond your control that can raise or lower your PvP MMR that you the player have no bearing on. Your spawn. AI aggro. AI spawn Weapon imbalance. Bugs/glitches.

MMR already can't track pure skill the way it could in a game like Halo for example where everyone starts with identical things. So the idea that playing the objective would mess with PvP MMR in a new detrimental way that doesn't already exist doesn't really hold water.

And hot take here: but your ability to complete ab objective in what is at its core an objective based game mode should affect your skill ranking. It doesn't have to be the dominant factor, but it should be a factor nonetheless.

[queen jungle]

@alpine gust Making a sequel to Hunt would take years and (like all new games) come with a plethora of other issues, especially since you're asking for new features to be added as well.
Also keep in mind that Crytek is a rather small company and they just recently announced Crysis 4 as their next AAA project, so I assume that's where most of their recourses will be going in the foreseeable future.

[unborn dagger]

@surreal python you really want to make this game unbalanced as possible lol

[tall basin]

Can someone explain this? Its bug, cheat, abuse or what?

like people in match just afk or dying(looks like disconnect) and after this i don't see this guys even in team details

[tall basin]

ok got it

[frosty garnet]

@misty walrus, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Increase the escape time from the map to 1 minute if you are wearing a bounty. The number of players that you can't catch is huge, HUGE. It is ridiculous how easy it is to get a bounty and get away without a fight. This is a Hunt or a farm simulator? I can see on the streams that the streamers have the same problem.```

[narrow narwhal]

@misty walrus Yeah i agree with increasing the time, but 1 min is too much i think...but yeah...they always escape...its kinda annoying too....its like they dont even want to fight...where the fun on that ?!

i think 40 to 45 secs is a good change

[misty walrus]

I haven't found a better solution to this problem, increasing the time by 15 seconds will not help much, but by 30 seconds will give you a lot of time to catch up

If it adds even those 15 seconds and I'm satisfied, it's a step in the right direction

[somber imp]

@misty walrus I don't agree with an increase. I get the logic behind it, but in my experience it's not the case. The issue is not extract time, its teams getting hanged up fighting other teams and not going after bounty. Example would be Team A is going for extract, being chased by Team B, Team B then gets into a gun fight with Team C because Team C is pushing on Team B - ignoring bounty team. Bounty team shouldn't be punished for not having pressure applied to them lol

[narrow narwhal]

For me, they always escape when i'm almost at them...its enraging...i just wanted them to try to fight back or something and they just run away...

[somber imp]

I mean that is the point of the game, as well as pvp, if their tactic at that point is to extract thats fine. They don't have to engage in the fight, increasing their time punishes a tatic of the game for no reason.

[misty walrus]

@somber imp If you catch up with the bounty team with more time, you'll get PvP

[narrow narwhal]

Yeah, i see the point, but they ALWAYS try to Escape, i mean, for me, the FUN part of this game is the engaging part, the tension, the tactics, and etc...but sometimes, a 1hour Match is resumed to a 10min one, because they just grab the Bounty and Run Away....and this is constantly happening....its sucks...

[somber imp]

Again If they don't want to engage in PVP they shouldn't be punished just so you can catch up to them. If you want them go at them, and don't get hung up, You can literally see them on the map, its up to you to intercept them.

Bounty doesn't offer a speed boost. Its lack of strategy on the offensive team, then on the bounty team.

[misty walrus]

@somber imp But the game is all about PvP! This is not a looter shooter. A longer escape time doesn't just punish the chances of the chasers

[narrow narwhal]

That i can kinda agree with you...with a good tactic is always possible...BUT theres a but.....

[somber imp]

Its about PVP yes, but it is not ALL about PVP lol

[misty walrus]

@somber imp So if you don't want PvP, don't touch the bounty. Simple isn't it?

[narrow narwhal]

Yeah, but lately, as i said, theres been a great number of people just grabing the thing and running aways, letting you and your partners there just standing there looking at each other with 5min to Escape....without doing nothing..

[somber imp]

Most of the time I have played, I either get two contracts, or I get oone, and even when the bounty is killed at start of game quickly - there is always times to get there because everyone flocks there and initiate pvp

[narrow narwhal]

agreed....it is happening to me constantly lately..

[narrow narwhal]

Lucky you...i always wait(for other players to start Banishing too or some players enters the area) to Banish IT when i find IT too soon in the match, just to let the match flow....i even let Hunters take a chance with the Bounty when i with it(i never go straight to the Extraction), because i really hate when Hunters just take it and run....and this is happening to much with me....as i said....sometimes we banish IT and use some traps to wait for other players, but they never show, they either dead or extracted...

[narrow narwhal]

When theres just one Contract is when i get more PvP because people go mad as a hatter to the Clues and Creature, so is better and faster to find Hunters, but thats not the highlight of the game, it is the slow passed gameplay, letting Players choose ways and tactics, and thats what Matches with 2 Contracts have to offer, BUT most of Players are getting used to just kill IT and Extracted withing 10min of a 1hour Round, even in a TWO Contracts Match...so as said...there is some flaw there...

[frosty garnet]

@ember lynx, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

A skill-based option for quickplay. That’s it```

[queen jungle]

This game sucks, shoot people for days and no kill but get one tapped through a building, hacker infested

[frosty garnet]

@ember lynx, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

A skill-based option for quickplay. That’s it```

[rain pier]

1 thousand percent agree. Just got 4 hit markers on a guy and nothing.

[quartz viper]

@somber imp Sry, but that's simply not true. Yes sometimes there's a third team (and for some reason they always attack the pursuer, instead of trying to stop the bounty). But even if there's no one else, they always get away. Those lightnings are so delayed and imprecise... I look on the map seeing them sitting in the bosslair and 2 seconds later my teammate tells me they are halfways at the extract already. And as the pursuer you always have to consider that they could turn around once they have good cover, while the trophy team can just keep running. I'm not sure an increased timer is the best way to do it, but I think just running away with the trophies (basically forcing the game to an end for everyone else) should somehow get disincentivised, at least a bit. The pursuing team should at least get a fair chance to get their hands on the trophies (since getting them is the main objective of the game). Additionally I think going for the second boss/staying in the game longer once you have trophies should somehow get incentivised, at least a bit.

@narrow narwhal From my experience people always did this, but the new mechanic, that gives you for extracting 5 days in a row incentivises this even more.

@misty walrus I also think 30s are to much. 10-15 additional seconds probably would be a good starting point. From my experience they almost always extract in the exact moment I can see the extraction point.

[umbral garden]

@glass shuttle i personally liked the idea of killing KKK members

[dense sapphire]

@misty walrus (Extend Extraction Time)
I assume you want to extend the extraction timer to deal with passive teams and force fights but extending the timer would actually benefit passive play. There are teams who wait far outside compound with rifles and refuse to engage unless the defending team pushes. The main counter to this strategy is running to extract and just not engaging. If you extend the timer though, there is no penalty for this playstyle; the "attacking team" would easily have enough time to catch up to bounty and force a fight on them while bounty is in a worse position. This forces a bad position on bounty carriers no matter what they do, which discourages going for bounty (which already has it's disadvantages). A change intended to force fights could easily slow down the game and discourage fights.

[glass shuttle]

Haha it's not just for that idea just in general think it would be good

[frosty garnet]

@turbid sinew, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Martini Henry Magazine as showcased here by Jonathon Ferguson of the IWM in leeds

Video for reference

https://youtu.be/8HeztkQ9WNE```

@turbid sinew, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Martini Henry Magazine as showcased here by Jonathon Ferguson of the IWM in leeds

Video for reference

https://youtu.be/8HeztkQ9WNE```

[burnt mulch]

average youtube bandwagoner

[rain pier]

Same, although I do agree w a middle finger cause sometimes people do really obnoxious suggestions.

@turbid sinew please stop making the exact same suggestion man

[turbid sinew]

Cope

[rain rune]

why were the normal crossbow bolts nerfed???

[eager widget]

They haven't ever been

They've been repeatedly getting buffed.

[fluid locust]

does bulletgrubber work on the scottfield swift?

[eager widget]

Nope.

[rain pier]

No

Face the reality most dont want it

Spam deleting a suggestion and spam reposting it won't make the majority change their mind

It's annoying

[vague patio]

martini henry alof

everyone posting the vid, none thinking about balance

[rain pier]

EXACTLY!

I searched up "in:suggestions-ideas martini" scrolled down and found five posts with the exact same video

It's ridiculous

[rain pier]

I believe the people thinking about the balance (such as us) are downvoting it.

At that point it may as well be a 1 shot mosin lol

[cloud sparrow]

Why is the mmr system so bad at determining a players average skill?

[jovial lodge]

Randomness and also the fact that patience + load-out can give huge advantages

[cloud sparrow]

So why is it in the game? I’m beyond frustrated, I stop playing every time I get up into the 6 star lobbies, and there’s no way to turn it off when playing with randoms. So I’m forced to play against 6star sweats when I’m not that good and only play every few months

[burnt mulch]

because it's the best we have.

the alternative is to have matchmaking off for everyone, in which case congratulations, as a 6 star you get to stomp noobs until they quit playing.

[wind stream]

what region are you in?

[cloud sparrow]

I’m in NA, but 6 stars do get to do that in this current system.

[wind stream]

what is your MMR?

[cloud sparrow]

It’s 5 now

But my lobbies are most 6 stars

[wind stream]

then you are probably high 5 stars and those 6 stars are low 6 stars

seems right

I get to play vs a mix of 6s and 5s in my matches

if you win around 1/4 of your trio matches or 1/6 of your duo matches everything seems in order

[cloud sparrow]

Well that’s def not the case, I just died about 10 games in a row and only got 3-4 kills total

[wind stream]

winning 1/6 games doesnt mean you will win every 6th game, you will have streaks of wins and losses

[cloud sparrow]

Yeah that’s true, I guess it just feels weird having such a strict system in a very uncompetitive game.

[wind stream]

when I played another competitive game, tracking my winrate long term helped me combat short term tilt

[cloud sparrow]

I don’t really play enough to warrant that, I guess I just need to try solos or stop playing only randoms.

[opaque reef]

suggestions-ideas bot is asleep i think.

[wind stream]

did you block it?

[opaque reef]

i dont think so?

[frosty garnet]

@rigid pasture, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

It may be cool to be able to sell contraband weapons for one third or quarter and mark free hunter's stuff as trash.```

[frosty garnet]

@round dawn, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Our Creative Director Daze shares some thoughts on Solos & Squads.

https://thecycle.game/news-and-media/dev-diary-part-10-solos-squads```

[pallid idol]

What's wrong with the sparks ?

I don't think streamers use sparks + uppercut because the sparks is op, but because it's the most affordable sniper rifle and streamers almost always play in 3v3 where sniper rifles are king, mosin and lebels definitely are better

I agree on making the uppercut use its own unique type of special ammo tho

[warm zephyr]

@rocky orchid how many hours do you even have into this game

[rocky orchid]

why you want to know that?

[warm zephyr]

idk man. your ideas seem very out there

[rocky orchid]

yeah just thinking about stuff where the game could get better

[rocky orchid]

did you read all of my suggestions? but to get you a feeling.. i am playing since alpha.. where nitro had no butthole 😉

[warm zephyr]

you know why the bornheim deals 74 dmg instead of more right

[rocky orchid]

yes

and you know, like me why the bornheim is still above 300, but is very uncommon in use?

why i should use a 300$ semi automatic or even 700$ semi automatic when i could use a 108$ "new gun" with fmj which does the same job often even better

[warm zephyr]

bornheim is 201?

[rocky orchid]

ah you are right.. i am always at extended version

when i think of it 😛

my bad

but it was 300 for base i can imagine

[warm zephyr]

i agree that the bornheim should get a price reduction but the sparks and uppercut is fine as is

[rocky orchid]

well in my opinion, and i play it really often myself and get the bad feeling, that the uppercut feels just a little bit TOO GOOD.. i always feel bad to kill people with it.. because it has less sway than an mosin obrez f.e.

so just give the uppercut "special long ammo", like the dolch "special medium ammo" would be the best case.. dolch for example cant be used anymore to feed or get feeded by any other gun

BUT, that is just MY opinion.. i just read about this topic so often

[warm zephyr]

i feel like the long ammo pool is really crucial especially if you play lebel, so i can’t say i agree with you on that front

yes the uppercut is good but it is also in a good place imo

[rocky orchid]

that was why i mentioned my former made suggestion on the ammo pool rework..

[warm zephyr]

slow reload

[rocky orchid]

i really dont like the lebel bug.. if that would not be the case.. i would it play even more

[wispy snow]

Lebel is fine without extra ammo, the real reason not to touch uppercut is that it hurts short range options.

[frigid folio]

I'd be fine with the upper cut not being able to pull ammo with other long ammo riffles but filling up ammo with it from special boxes only isn't it for me 😭

[warm zephyr]

yeah the ammo rework is also… questionable?

[vast geyser]

@narrow narwhal Regarding your darkness suggestion: I very much welcome it, but I just know that the sweatiest sweatlords of them all would use ANYTHING to gain an advantage. If it was PvE only, one might keep the brightness and contrast down for the sake of the atmosphere, but as soon as this PvP competitiveness comes in, people are gonna look for advantages left and right.

I remember the good old days of vanilla DayZ (the Arma mod, not the standalone) which also had this pitch black darkness; you could only see things in the cone of your flashlight and when the enemies came with glowsticks, your night vision goggles immediately became useless. Those were the times; and the PvP encounters were really terrifying. So yeah, I'd really wish for that atmosphere to make it's way into Hunt, somehow. Prolly not gonna happen, though...

[rocky orchid]

well but people keep blaming that shotguns are OP.. slugs are OP.. so limiting people, if they want to play short to medium range is fine i guess..

also nobody said, that they cant use the uppercut which still would have long ammo?!

[rocky orchid]

why? 🙂

[warm zephyr]

currently the normal ones refill a third or a quarter but i think special ammo should get a third and no less imo

[rocky orchid]

well the rework says.. big ammo boxes, in case of long ammo, always gives you 7 rounds... the small ones 3..

no matter what long rifle gun you pick

it would even fit the logic even more.. "oh yes hunter A uses new box.. only gets 2 bullets", "hunter B uses fresh box getting 5".. that doesnt make any logic sense

[wispy snow]

Slugs are OP, but shotguns very much aren't OP. Buckshot's probably the least consistent weapon in the game, and the most limited.

[warm zephyr]

unless you change the reserve ammo affecting ammo pick up gameplay aspect it isn’t viable tbh

look, if you want to bring logic into this… most ammo aren’t supposed to pool at all

[rocky orchid]

slugs arent OP.. they are expensive (ok.. caldwell rival should get a price increase for slugs to 400 for slug ammo), but slugs are meant to be good in their fighting range.. like dual wielding..

[rocky orchid]

yes

[warm zephyr]

games are only fun when it’s not overly realistic

[wispy snow]

Slugs are a strict upgrade over buckshot and price doesn't matter in Hunt much.

[rocky orchid]

so why we cant get a silenced scottfield than, if we dont stick to realistic?

[warm zephyr]

the ammo reserve is a big part of balancing. so it’s unrealistic to change it

[rocky orchid]

well this depends.. because 200 for rival + 400 for slugs is the base price for crown.. which would fit

[wispy snow]

That's not what those cost at all.

[rocky orchid]

i said it should be changed to

[warm zephyr]

your idea of realistic is not suitable for this game

[rocky orchid]

well.. than berthier seems the best choice, because it is the better choice in every aspect.. so we can delete lebel?

[warm zephyr]

berty needs to reload every 3 rounds

and the reload is finnicky

[wispy snow]

Here's the thing, people already think the rival + slugs is better than the C&K. Until slate came along it was pretty much universally agreed that it's the best gun inside a compound.

[rocky orchid]

did you ever noticed how fast it reloads?

[warm zephyr]

so it’s balanced

i think the question is the userate

berthier is not a straight upgrade over mosins or lebels

it’s not above, but the other

[rocky orchid]

maybe they should increase the recoil on slug use a little bit under nitro recoil for balance

[wispy snow]

Wouldn't be enough. Recoil affects medium range but it's not going to change anything about close range 1 taps, which slugs still do better than buckshot.

[rocky orchid]

well berthier outperformance lebel in any way.. how much long ammo rounds you need to kill a target? 1-2.. so 3 in a chamber is enouhg

[warm zephyr]

… assuming you’re a crackshot

berthier also kicks a lot

[rocky orchid]

yeah.. but close range IS THE PLAYGROUND for shotguns.. they were especially invented for this operation purpose.. so there is this..

[wispy snow]

Don't get me wrong, close range is where shotguns should be good. But it's not good for a custom ammo to be strictly better than the default ammo at that. And slugs are better by quite a large margin.

It's the comparison to buckshot that's the problem.

[rocky orchid]

dont know what that mean.. but in my experience if you need more than 3 shots in a fight, you already dead

[rocky orchid]

aaah.. now i get your point..

[warm zephyr]

that’s why i question if you actually play the game

[queen jungle]

Berthier having 3 rounds isn't an issue when it can reload fast as fuck

[rocky orchid]

every day between 5-10 hrs .. yes

[queen jungle]

This dude is cringe af

[wispy snow]

IMO problem with berthier is without bullet grubber, it's really awkward to have 1 shot in the chamber. Lebel at least has to get through a lot of ammo before that point.

[warm zephyr]

things are only unbalanced if people would actively choose it over everything else

[rocky orchid]

exactly

[rocky orchid]

but lets talk about the spawn rate of ammo boxes nowadays.. you find a huge amount in any compound.. i had recently a game where i had 4 special ammo boxes in the boss layer.. guess who won the match?! me with nitro dum dum inside..

[warm zephyr]

and lebels and mosins can reload without wasting a bullet if you reload before bolting the next round in

[warm zephyr]

that’s completely rng spawn

[rocky orchid]

before the custom ammo update or even earlier you had really to search for ammo boxes.. that was what i meant by that

[warm zephyr]

yeah but things change

if everything is so predictable this game wouldn’t be as fun

[warm zephyr]

by this i assume you meant before when you can only find special ammo in small boxes right

[rocky orchid]

so you agree some fresh changes from time to time could be more fun? so why you have an issue with the uppercut change than?

[warm zephyr]

i think it’s because they needed to nerf the dolch and nitro back then so its only a tempo solution

[rocky orchid]

no even normal ammo was harder to find and because of that you often had fights at supply points.. nowadays no one runs to supply points, if they arent "on the way".

[warm zephyr]

because the uppercut is fine imo

[rocky orchid]

^

[tawny meadow]

@sturdy otter deleted your suggestion as it was not a suggestion but feedback.

[warm zephyr]

there are different changes

[rocky orchid]

uppercut is used around 60 or 70% by people, because the dolch got nerfed so hard, that it isnt even worth 500$

[queen jungle]

I'd like to see the proof of 60-70%

[sturdy otter]

oh say it here in this channel?

okay

[warm zephyr]

dolch should be repriced i agree

[rocky orchid]

i dont know the exact numbers to be honest, but they called out a number in one of the devstreams where it was between those numbers

[queen jungle]

I hate how everyone in this community pulls random numbers out of their ass based on feelings

[warm zephyr]

but sparks and uppercut is just fine

[sturdy otter]

Dear Crytek, I have just right now, hit prestige 50, at this point I have never been more annoyed with hitreg and desync in my life. Please for the love of god, fix it, I am sure to make 50 my last prestige as I can't play this game anymore with these issues. Yours faithfully Sniff

[warm zephyr]

@sturdy otter yeah i feel you. from my experience asia servers are unplayable in this event at all

[wispy snow]

Not sure about 60-70%, but they released an infographic 2 years ago, before the compact buff and the QS nerf, where Uppercut had a usage rate of like 45% among people prestige 50 or higher.

Uppercut was, by far, the most used gun among active players. Might still be.

[gaunt lantern]

I know it's anecdotal but I had a random teammate the other day kill someone and tell me, "have my dolch if you want it. I don't like it too much and would prefer this dead dude's uppercut"

[rocky orchid]

they said "in higher ranks it is around 60 or 70".. i need to find that where dennis was calling out numbers once

[wispy snow]

I'd believe it.

[rocky orchid]

but if you see top tier streamers f.e. which are not playing for fun they run uppercut 90% in their loadouts

so i guess 60-70% mentioned on the whole community would fit

[warm zephyr]

at most i can see the uppercut having the damage nerfed to 125 is all

[rocky orchid]

no..

let the damage be the damage as it stands.. just change the ammo type like it is with the dolch.. that would perfectly

a direct nerf to damage is not good

[warm zephyr]

yeah i just don’t agree with the change. sparks and uppercut being long is balanced imo

[wispy snow]

Best thing to impact uppercut IMO would be medium size rifles being improved. A lot of it being good is a lack of competition. I do think its fanning could/should be even worse though.

[warm zephyr]

uppercut pooling ammo for other guns is something that a huge part of the community has accepted

so if you want to change that you have to bring in something to substitute

[rocky orchid]

medium rifle got an improvement already?! i also cant count how much i died to a vetterli.. even more than against mosin i would say

[wispy snow]

size

[rocky orchid]

yes.. but this is was i just said, should be changed, because this ammo pool pooling inbetween different guns and weapon types is not healthy for the game in brings its own issues with every new gun introduced in the future

[warm zephyr]

unhealthy how?

[rocky orchid]

as much as i love the discussion right now guys.. i need to play now 🙂 see you in the bayouu

[wispy snow]

There are some problems with ammo pooling IMO, but it stems from how they handled dualies.

[warm zephyr]

i think the dualies needs a change but there’s no clear win solution

[pallid idol]

Honestly if the dualies were just behaving the same as a single pistol but with a slightly higher firerate and a doubled magazine capacity they wouldn't be a headache to balance

[warm zephyr]

i personally think that having it being a better quickswap would be more realistic and better gameplay wise?

the current dual wielding should be locked behind ambidextrous imo

[pallid idol]

I don't think the current dual-wielding is op or even that strong tbh

It seems a bit extreme to lock it behind a perk for its niche purpose

[warm zephyr]

people just don’t like getting headshotted by it

my suggestion is arguably an improvement

being able to ads duals

[meager grove]

This event have a sever problem

[warm zephyr]

yes.

i literally cannot play in asia server and unable to match anywhere else

[wispy snow]

If I understand what you're suggesting, uppercuts would have to be excluded from dual wielding. Accurate, fast ROF on long ammo is bad news.

[warm zephyr]

i think duals uppercut can work with my suggestion, just make the handling really low

like it literally pushes you around

[wispy snow]

It'd have to be basically the worse recoil in the game, but maybe.

[warm zephyr]

the main reason why i don’t agree with sportsman’s suggestion is because uppercut funneling ammo for long guns is just such a huge gameplay feature removed

[wispy snow]

I think dual uppercut funneling ammo for avto is a bit much, but again I think the reserves for dualies and pistols need to be changed overall anyway.

[warm zephyr]

i’m of the opposite opinion. i think medium/long slot pistols should have more reserve

like scottfield precision having 18 in reserve

[wispy snow]

Agreed, but that's the thing, remember they nerfed single pistol reserves in order to give dualies double.

[warm zephyr]

i do not

i started after they added duals

[wispy snow]

If dualies had the same ammo reserves as single pistols used to have, they'd have about as much ammo as they do now. And it'd give room for some pistols that need more ammo to get it. Like pax/schofield.

[warm zephyr]

it always bogs my mind that compact pistols get 3x reserve, med only 2x and long 1.5 lol

medium needs more tbh

[wispy snow]

Conversion went from 30 reserve to 18, which means they'll never boost medium pistols to 18.

Dualies ammo changes were a big mistake.

[warm zephyr]

tf

[wispy snow]

When they introduced dualies, all compact pistols lost a lot of reserve ammo, medium and long didn't change at all.

[warm zephyr]

you can just never win with somethings

should compact pistols have like 24 in reserve then?

but duals get 18

[wispy snow]

Pax should have 18 spare, but they're never going to do it while conversion has 18. If conversion still had 30, then we'd be talking.

[warm zephyr]

each

i think 24 is enough

[wispy snow]

I think it's fine for dualies to have the same ammo as a single pistol, if it's the old values.

[warm zephyr]

30 is too much

yeah 30 seems fair

[warm zephyr]

for single

[wispy snow]

It really wasn't too bad, but 24 is an ok compromise.

[warm zephyr]

idt 30 for compact is viable though

because you’d get more than winfieldc

[wispy snow]

Nagant throws the math off a little, it'd have to be 28. Officer maybe 21.

[warm zephyr]

officer uhh… a lot of people would disagree

nagant can get away with it because it’s not as good

[wispy snow]

It's 21 or 14.

[warm zephyr]

but officer having 14 is just right imo

[wispy snow]

It used to have 21. I think 21 is more fair for the carbine's sake.

But you could split the carbine and the pistol I suppose.

[warm zephyr]

carbine yes, but base officer no

and carbine needs a buff for the sway

@wispy ice sideboss that you need to summon would be great

[maiden pelican]

The medium and large slot pistols should get more spare

For some reason the medium slot rifles don't get less

"Ammo changes:
Nagant 1895: from 21 spare to 28 spare, making the precision variants more useful especially.
Nagant Officer: From 14 spare to 21 spare, the officer carbines are especially bad compared to winfields.
Caldwell Conversion: Base variant from 18 to 24 spare. Chain pistol unchanged.
Bornheim: Price unchanged, spare increased from 10 to 15 (but monitored to see its performance)
New Army 1892: Spare from 12 to 18.
Pax: Increase spare from 12 to 15
Scottfield: Base variant spare increased from 12 to 15, spitfire and swift unchanged."

[lavish grove]

Wasnt the officers ammo count nerfed?

A white back

[wispy snow]

All compact pistols, except chain pistol I think, got an ammo nerf when dualies were introduced.

[warm zephyr]

i think chain should be 18+18

[balmy elbow]

With all the weird server issues is there any indication we might get a few extra days at least for event completion??

[warm zephyr]

not that i've heard of. the silence is deafening

i hope they address those who lost contracts due to server issues

[maiden pelican]

Actually a bit afterward right?

I remember 140 spare on quad nagants

At least I think I remember that

[wispy snow]

Nah it was with dualies I'm pretty sure. Maybe not on test but definitely by the time it hit live.

[maiden pelican]

Probably not on test

Still to me the main benefit compact has over long is more spare and therefore restock

Hell these changes or they should bring back the inherently higher restock compact used to have

[quartz viper]

I think increasing single pistols ammo pool and giving dual pistols the same reserve wouldn't be a bad idea. They still have more ammo by just having an additional gun full of it. I also find it kinda strange that dual pistols get a ton of ammo, while other high rate of fire stuff gets reduced ammo pools.
Since I was thinking about the Bornheim lately, I was actually about to suggest increasing it's pool and/or removing bulletgrubber from it, but a general change might be even better.

[maiden pelican]

Best change would be to increase spare on single pistols then dualies have slightly increased off that rather than double

So nagant from 21 to 28, but dualies still have 42

Or do you mean the same reserve they have now

Conversion from 18-24 dualies with 36

[unborn smelt]

well dualies can't be aimed - so you can't ensure to hit with a low ammo pool
on double actions on the contrary you can ADS and the low ammo pool is to encourage people to aim careful rather than just spam the mag you have

[maiden pelican]

Basically just a spare magazine extra

And the one in the other gun of course

[unborn smelt]

that's why IMO it makes perfect sense for dualies to have a large pool - yet semi auto's to have a low pool

[wispy snow]

I think dualies having the same ammo as single pistols used to would be just fine, most cases at worst you're losing 6 bullets. Medium pistols could then get some more reserve ammo.

[rain rune]

It went from a one shot chest kill to a hit and bleed, tried it twice since patch (one from me the other to me)

[maiden pelican]

Sure it isn't arm hits?

[quartz viper]

As an exemple conversion has 6 bullets + 18 reserve, dual it's 12+36, what I suggest is making it something like 6+24 and 12+24.

[unborn smelt]

I mean i think we don't need more ammo at all - i think lower reserves would be beneficial to gameplay to make resource management matter more

[maiden pelican]

Ehh, I don't think thats better

[unborn smelt]

And IMO if something needs ammo - then it's the guns that can't ADS

[maiden pelican]

The bomblance!

Rangorok gonna break into crytek and give it 36 spare

Honestly it would still be a meme

[wispy snow]

What I'm saying is that dualies basically get the same ammo, but single compact pistols getting less ammo doesn't really change anything. Just kind of a hassle. Biggest problem is lack of room for medium pistols to have decent ammo reserves. fitting pax between upper and conversion is awkward as it stands.

[unborn smelt]

yes IMO remove Upper ammo rather than add pax

[maiden pelican]

Ideally with compact you should come out ahead on ammo over long ammo

[unborn smelt]

would work perfectly fine too - 6 spare for upper 12 on pax and 18 on CCP

[maiden pelican]

In both missing ammo after a restock, and ammo still left after a fight

[quartz viper]

Yea, but in cqc adsing is not that useful, and for longer shots you usually cant make use of the higher rof too much. I also think it doesn't make too much sense that we cant ads over one gun just because we hold a second one in the other hand.

[maiden pelican]

But to me it seems like long ammo uses far far less ammo

[unborn smelt]

I'm not saying i want dualies to stay the way they are.
I personally would prefer if you could ADS them

But as long as we cannot the big reserves do make sense IMO

[maiden pelican]

The real solution is an ammo bag that you can fit jnto empty slots

[wispy snow]

We don't need ways of getting even more ammo for triple dolch and avto loadouts.

[unborn smelt]

just give the ammo bags effect to melee weapons

[unborn smelt]

wouldn't be the end of the world either

[maiden pelican]

Maybe not for nitro

Also the ammo bag could be balanced many ways

[unborn smelt]

Dolch is laughably bad for the money now - for avto double Uppercut already exists and it's better than blocking a slot with a bag or melee

[wispy snow]

Wouldn't be the end of the world but those loadouts already have too many ways around their supposedly limited ammo, don't need another one.

[unborn smelt]

as for nitro - base the extra ammo on the spare count and it's screwed too

[unborn smelt]

yet all of those loadout suck against actually good loadouts

[maiden pelican]

Basically the ammo bag item would be in long medium and compact variations

[unborn smelt]

• they would loose the second weapon

[wispy snow]

Not about whether they're good or not, spammy dolch and avto loadouts aren't good but they're also not fun to play against.

[maiden pelican]

And maybe a quiver

[unborn smelt]

no triple dolch + ammo bag or melee

[wispy snow]

Not everything is about balance, sometimes it's about whether something is healthy and fun.

[unborn smelt]

at best 2 Dolch or single Dolch

no sidearms for avto or nitro either

[maiden pelican]

The new army is decidedly unfun to me

Dolch sucks and I want it to stay that way

[unborn smelt]

TBH neither is going against the 5th mosin + upper

[maiden pelican]

It's the least fun gun to play against

[wispy snow]

That doesn't have the propensity for just spamming bullets and being rewarded for it.

[unborn smelt]

yes it does

[wispy snow]

With those rates of fire, no, that's not really spam.

[unborn smelt]

i mean okay - but they can just keep firing for pretty long with the most dangerous dmg, base pen and easiest to hit because valocity

[maiden pelican]

Spam isn't about rof to me

[wispy snow]

Mosin + uppercut that never pushes can be annoying, but the low rate of fire makes it hard to make up for mistakes.

[unborn smelt]

I'm a firm believer of if you fail to on average out preassure dualies either your positioning or aim is the fault not dualies

That may be a diffrent story on console

But on PC i will die on that hill

[unborn smelt]

actually - no it's extremely easy to make up for mistakes

the Uppercut has an overall pretty good RoF nearly as good as a vetterli, as well as acess to fanning (don't spray and pray fanning Upper, 1-2 unaimed and then aim the followup - makes it very good)

[wispy snow]

Dualies aren't the same problem to me, not as deadly in cqc as an avto and not nearly the skill ceiling of a dolch.

[maiden pelican]

To me the problem is you need to hit less shots with long ammo, less often, to do more permanent damage

[ruby magnet]

Mosin uppercut? They got so much spare ammo they'll gladly guess shots through every wall. Running low? Hop by an ammo crate and get up to 6 bullets back

[unborn smelt]

the Mosins still very servicable RoF is by far enough for peekfights as well as clips making it easy to keep that RoF very high until you run dry

[maiden pelican]

Lets say you are at 80 meters from a compact ammo team, just take care not to get headshot and you can drain their healing much easier, and pen a few walls still at that range

[wispy snow]

You get a lot of chances for damage but those chances are spaced out, that's what I'm saying.

[unborn smelt]

or limb hits, or burnt HP...

[maiden pelican]

Those chances aren't much more spaced out

[wispy snow]

And regardless, I'm not talking about what's good or not, an avto with 45 bullets or a dolch with enough ammo to run out and more unfun to play against than a mosin uppercut.

[unborn smelt]

well i disagree

[maiden pelican]

What do you mean, the compact ammo team has to worry about that, or your team?

[wispy snow]

Compare dolch rof to mosin upper rof, the difference is massive.

[unborn smelt]

I much rather run into the occasional avtomat than 3-5 mosin + upper each match

[wispy snow]

Again, I agree, mosin upper is better, but I'd sooner fight that than an avto or dolch that never runs out of ammo.

[unborn smelt]

as is dmg, range ammo availability

and ironically the price isn't

you get a mosin and Upper for essentially 1 Dolch

[wispy snow]

Oh for god sake I'm not talking about what's good, I'm talking about annoying.

[ruby magnet]

Then again... like price is even an argument nowadays...

[wispy snow]

Spammy ads with lots of ammo is always going to be more annoying than just a mosin with extra ammo.

[unborn smelt]

yes - that imo is way way more annoying

[wispy snow]

Then your problem is with long ammo as an entire class of weapons.

[unborn smelt]

because of crawling games to a halt because noone peeks out of meds or with burnt HP

as well as being so incredibly popular it just bores me

[maiden pelican]

Increasing the prices of the compact pistols was bad

Give me my $4 conversion

Price without taking into account the chance of loss is what it seems like

Will you win a match with an uppercut more than a nagant, yes most likely

[quartz viper]

Avto is basically a meme, and I haven't seen many Dolchs since the last nerf.
One person might find stuff with high rate of fire annoying, another one finds bush crouching long ammo annoying, thats just how it is.
And that they for some reason don't want different balance for PC and console is a whole different discussion.

[maiden pelican]

Also I think brackstone is on console

[unborn smelt]

I mean it's definetly a fair thing to say Dolch, Avto and Nitro are unfun/frustrating as heck

[maiden pelican]

Avto is fun to me

[ruby magnet]

Nani?

[maiden pelican]

Because if I win I say, haha I killed an avto lets burn him

If I lose I just go "damn, just got sprayed by an avto, welp that'll happen sometimes"

[unborn smelt]

However i do think the ammo bag / ammo bag effect on melee weapons has big enough downsides to not make those guns too frustrating

[wispy snow]

I am on console, but again, I'm not saying avto is good. It's not that good. An avto with enough spare ammo to spam is just annoying, that's my point. Dolch with tons of spare ammo, also annoying. Spammy weapons are hard to balance, and these two should be balanced around limited ammo.

[maiden pelican]

Machete needs another buff

[unborn smelt]

our point is that nothing says it enables those guns to get more spare

you can already stack 3 dolches - or up to 2 uppercuts to an avto

[maiden pelican]

Define what you think is spammy @unborn smelt @wispy snow

[wispy snow]

Yep, and I've been arguing you shouldn't be able to do that.

[maiden pelican]

I think you two are arguing about a different definition sortof

[unborn smelt]

if you'd get a weapon slot ammo bag - or melee weapons increasing ammo - you couldn't use the second gun slot for stacking ammo with upper or a dolch pair

[maiden pelican]

Weapon slot ammo bag that can be stacked, and fit in with a medium or small slot if you have space

[unborn smelt]

So in the end the loadouts might be cheaper - but also lacking a secondary so you're stuck with that primary and no upper or 40 dolch rounds to save you

[maiden pelican]

Also dolch exemption

Or you have a single pistol instead of dualies

[unborn smelt]

tbh i don't think the dolch needs to be exempt

as long as you can't DW ammo bag and pistol

[maiden pelican]

I was thinking having it be different types of ammo bags, including bolt and arrow bags.

[wispy snow]

IMO spammy is rof + capacity. avto is spammy because it can put a lot of high quality shots down range very quickly. Dolch is similar, with the added wrinkle of accurate ads. These have generally been limited by ammo problems, meaning you can't spam much.

[unborn smelt]

And even then the Dolch in it's current state is a 750$ paperweight

[maiden pelican]

I was thinking if you took a medium slot and dualies you could add an ammo bag if you had quartermaster

[wispy snow]

If the ammo bag gives as much or less than a single copy of a relevant gun, maybe. Then just make it cheap. IE if it only gave dolch 10 bullets, or avto like 9, that's maybe ok, but even then I just don't think this is something that's needed at all.

If a weapon has ammo issues, it either needs more ammo on its own, or it's a balancing factor.

An ammo bag feels like a band aid that could make more problems.

Ammo bag feels like the same kind of balancing as custom ammo has been. Instead of actually making a gun worthwhile, just give it fmjs/slugs and call it a day.

[unborn smelt]

It would enable more fun loadouts and less ammo stacking needs

It's not about being needed but it could be beneficial

[wispy snow]

Again, if there's a problem with a gun's ammo reserves, fix that directly, an ammo bag is a band aid.

[warm zephyr]

i too, would like an ammo rework patch

[unborn smelt]

Or you want to open up the gun in more weapon combos outside of ammo stacking

it isn't a bandaid fix per se

[maiden pelican]

To me it would probably be like 18-20 for compact, 12-15 for medium and 8-10 for long

[unborn smelt]

For example The Lebel has 15 rounds and is comfortably playable with an uppercut

but it could be fun to play lebel with something else, and an ammo bag or melee adding extra ammo could alleviate that

[wispy snow]

For every combo you can think of there's another that's potentially a problem IMO. This is a complicated thing and I don't think it's worth it.

[unborn smelt]

or you wanna play poison centennial for whatever reason

[wispy snow]

Also lebel ammo can sting a little but it's hardly terrible, it's certainly not unplayable without an uppercut, I do it all the time.

[unborn smelt]

Well then we have to agree to disagree - because i think condemning it before ever trying it because of fear of OP is not worth it

[wispy snow]

Difference is you're asking crytek to put work into a complicated system that might not be worthwhile and if it doesn't work, that's effort wasted. Again, easier solution is to address ammo problems on certain guns directly rather than come up with some extra complication with unforeseen consequences.

[warm zephyr]

yeah i kinda agree with what brackstone is saying… it’s really a lot of work

but i do see the possibilities of how fun it can be

[wispy snow]

We've seen how big, broad changes in hunt affect different aspects quite drastically, just adding an ammo bag as an option is something that's a lot of work to implement and is going to affect different weapons in drastically different ways.

[unborn smelt]

I'm not asking them to do anything - but if they just don't do anything ever because people fear the OP the lack of new content will kill the game sooner than later too

[wispy snow]

An ammo bag isn't the kind of new content that's going to save the game.

Nobody's gonna come back to hunt after leaving just cause there's a sack with bullets in it now.

[unborn smelt]

neither is it gonna kill it or likely be tonns of work

[wispy snow]

Given how bad crytek's QA has been lately, yes, it probably would be a ton of work. And given their track record with ammo changes (not good), this is way more complicated than tackling it on a per weapon basis.

[unborn smelt]

Their trac record of ammo changes so single weapons isn't good to be precise

the exact thing you say they should do instead

[wispy snow]

Their track record with getting fancy is bad, dualies ammo changes were needlessly complicated. I'm asking things to go back to how they were.

[warm zephyr]

i think it’s an idea we can have. Crytek’s track record isn’t great but i think having more ideas can really benefit the game lots

[unborn smelt]

Sry - I'll stop it right here because we won't come to a consensus.

Neither of us budge even a little in their view of the situation, so i don't see this working out

[quartz viper]

I kinda agree that they should rather fiddle with ammo pools of specific guns if that's needed instead of an additional item. And we already have the ammo box as a consumable.

[warm zephyr]

or they can just do both?

[quartz viper]

It's not just the work of implementing it, basically every gun/combination would have to be rebalanced

[wispy snow]

^

[warm zephyr]

yeah. i understand the consequences of changing a gameplay aspect as Huge as this but it’s potentially a very nice addition to those that play with loadouts a lot.

[wispy snow]

I play with loadouts a lot and honestly I don't see it changing much.

[warm zephyr]

maybe other people could?

[wispy snow]

Maybe, but again I think we'd be talking about specific loadouts that'd benefit from it, others that would gain too much, and then others that would gain nothing at all. Again, just balance reserves for each weapon where necessary.

[burnt mulch]

I personally dislike the concept of ammo holders in general. It encourages having a specialized loadout rather than a balanced one.

[wispy snow]

Most weapons have the right amount of ammo as it stands right now, an ammo bag addition onto any weapon is a big change to benefit a relatively small number of loadouts. Just change those things directly.

[burnt mulch]

having a specialized loadout incentivizes you to play purely to its strengths, like what happens with long ammo snipers with uppercut ammo holders.

[warm zephyr]

as you said, specialised. only when an idea is thrown around and fiddled with can then be properly assessed

[burnt mulch]

right, but I don't think that's healthy.

[unborn smelt]

that happens regardless is the issue

[warm zephyr]

who knows, maybe one day we’ll get to test the idea

[burnt mulch]

the issue is that it's encouraged and enabled, not that it happens. of course it'll still happen.

[unborn smelt]

people now just use secondaries to stack ammo - so it's more the ammo stacking system as a whole at fault in this

[burnt mulch]

ehh idk about "just use" but

[unborn smelt]

My point is if you have an ammo holder with little to no power itself it's a tradeoff to use that over a secondary

[wispy snow]

Crytek never tests ideas. They put them in and then they hit live servers 1 week later without major changes. If ammo bags are a problem, they'll be a problem for a while.

[unborn smelt]

people now just grab a secondary that also stacks the ammo

[wispy snow]

NGL I do think ammo stacking is dumb too.

[burnt mulch]

.. and?
I never said I like it as it is now.

[unborn smelt]

because if we stay with the uppercut example - yes it's often used to haul ammo for the primary, but it's also an excellent weapon itself

capable of covering midrange and to a degree even close range

say you have an ammo bag or melee stacking ammo you can't fall back on your uppercut if they get too close for a scope or you really want the Uppercut RPM over the mosins

[burnt mulch]

... ok but what does that have anything to do with what I said regarding specialized loadouts? If anything that supports my argument.

[unborn smelt]

well no - becuase i don't think it encourages more specialized loadouts

[burnt mulch]

using an ammo bag instead of an uppercut means that you don't get the (arguable) utility of an uppercut and can only rely on your primary.

[unborn smelt]

people do that already - but if the ammo holder doesn't double as a good sidearm it might discourage some and if not they are an easier target

[burnt mulch]

it doesn't double as a good sidearm which means that you're even more incentivized to stay at far range.

[unborn smelt]

which makes you easier to take out - or you might wanna bring a better complementary sidearm to your primary

[burnt mulch]

except the only real range that an uppercut is better than a long bolt action rifle is close range with fanning.

which long bolt rifle users don't need to be in in the first place

[wispy snow]

Ok, @unborn smelt, what is your full suggestion for this? It takes a weapon slot? It combines with another weapon in that slot? Which weapons in your loadout get the ammo? Does it affect special? How much does it give?

[burnt mulch]

and that they already avoid

[unborn smelt]

TBH - i'd be open to try most implementations

I think a good start could be melee weapons increase ammo pool for the remaining weapon slot

[burnt mulch]

if the idea of using a complimentary sidearm really held any water, then people wouldn't be bringing uppercuts, they'd be bringing officers.

[wispy snow]

This, specifically, depending on the amount of additional ammo, I would maybe be fine with. Anything else I think you run into immediate problems.

[unborn smelt]

Unless the uppercut is just way stronger than an officer and people are to stuck up to admitt it

[burnt mulch]

the effective ranges that an uppercut is stronger than an officer is an effective range that the bolt action long ammo rifle covers...

[unborn smelt]

I generally think ammo should across the board be scarce

[ruby harbor]

Guys, any "red" packet loss issues currently in Europe region preference?

[unborn smelt]

to make people think twice before shooting or if they don't make em think about how to rearm

[wispy snow]

I'm seeing this as less a buff to ammo reserve and more a buff to dedicated melee, so I'm potentially okay with it. Bomblance is a sticking point though.

Machete starts to become interesting.

[unborn smelt]

as a result i think ammo bonuses should be relatively small depending on the "downside" of what gives the ammo bonus

On PC Bomblance is a dead meme - I don't know how it is on console tho

[wispy snow]

More that implementation is tricky because bomblance has ammo itself, not about meme or not.

[unborn smelt]

But melee as a whole kind of has the issue that you don't need melee weapons, bayonets or tools do the trick just fine

especially the way trading is rn

[wispy snow]

IE makes sense that you carry more ammo cause your machete doesn't need ammo, but your bomblance does need ammo, so logically that makes less sense.

[unborn smelt]

yeah i'd still be fine with that

[burnt mulch]

@oblique linden sorry but uh..
do a search for your video URL in the discord search bar.

[unborn smelt]

As for an ammo pouch idea - it's definetly more tricky

[wispy snow]

I'm tentatively in favour of dedicated melee giving more ammo, but ammo pouch is a massive can of worms.

[unborn smelt]

Again as i'm a fan of low overall ammo i think it should add only very little, for example 50% of spare ammo

that's at best 1-2 nitro shots, 6-9 revolver rounds altho maybe a bit too much on some rifles

one could also make it differ for rifle and pistol ammo for example

or exclude special ammo

[wispy snow]

Also affects rifles unevenly. And if this is part of your ammo pouch idea, it doesn't look good on medium shotties.

[unborn smelt]

It doesn't need to be good on everything

It's okay if it's not the best to complement medium shotguns

especially how would you use it with medium shotguns ?

[wispy snow]

But again, my point for the ammo pouch is if the number of things it does affect in a positive way would be better off just receiving specific buffs themselves.

[unborn smelt]

assuming it's a weapon slot not a tool slot

[unborn smelt]

that's where i tend to disagree

[wispy snow]

I thought your idea was adding an ammo pouch onto a weapon with a spare space. IE you got quartermaster, you take a long rifle with a pistol and an ammo pouch.

[unborn smelt]

for example yes

which would mean it effectively takes a small weapon slot

[wispy snow]

But it's combined into a 2 slot with a pistol?

[unborn smelt]

It could be an issue with long ammo - but rather than not add it i'd prefer a nerf to long ammo capacity

[wispy snow]

If the ammo pouch took a slot all on its own, that's one thing. Combining it in a slot with an actual weapon is a huge complication.

[unborn smelt]

because seeing as the uppercut is the only pistol to never receive the ammo nerf it's too plentifuly already

[wispy snow]

I still think I'm against the ammo pouch but the melee idea is probably okay.

[unborn smelt]

If i'm brutally honest i'd love to see the ammo stacking gone

in it's entirety

[wispy snow]

Same, agreed.

[unborn smelt]

unless it's literally the same ammo - like berthier and leble, or mosin and obrez

[wispy snow]

Yeah, I was gonna say.

[unborn smelt]

and i think then a pouch would not be an issue

but a pouch alone in the games current state i do too think is very tricky

[maiden pelican]

Uppercut and sparks mighr still stack judging by the models

[unborn smelt]

and while i'd not be against testing it i'd be pessimistic about it

[wispy snow]

There's no chance in hell they're shooting the same cartridge.

[unborn smelt]

depends on what cartrige the sparks is supposed to be

[maiden pelican]

No chance its shooting long anyways

[unborn smelt]

45-70 maybe

[maiden pelican]

Sparks is 45-70

Its in the store description

Springfield is 50-70

[warm zephyr]

i kinda like the ammo stack. it’s just one of those things that makes things fun when it’s not as realistic

[maiden pelican]

Uppercut to special ammo, 124 damage, and 6 spare. Give it the old dolch treatment

[warm zephyr]

martini is .52 something iirc…

[unborn smelt]

is it ?

lemme check

[warm zephyr]

wow

too severe

[maiden pelican]

Thats not an actual suggestion

[maiden pelican]

Maybe just the book of weapons

[unborn smelt]

to be fair i wouldn#t wanna see it

but i don't think it's too severe either

the devs confirmed it literally had over 50% playrate in high ELO

that means it's played more than all other sidearms combined

[maiden pelican]

I think 124 damage is probably the best thing they can do, and then add a higher damage pax, and a single shot long

[wispy snow]

If we got another, potentially cheaper single shot long ammo pistol I'm fine nerfing uppercut.

[warm zephyr]

i think what it needs is just other better sidearms rather than nerfing the uppercut itself

[maiden pelican]

Then there'd be basically no empty slots and they could add as many compact spam pistols with no ammo they want.

[unborn smelt]

Only says that in store for me

[maiden pelican]

Ahh, book of weapons?

[warm zephyr]

i think 125 is ok for the uppercut? so when there’s any drop off you can’t one tap a downed hunter

[wispy snow]

Uppercut could use a small nerf and some other stuff a small buff to even it out.

[warm zephyr]

@quartz viper how about a baton?

[maiden pelican]

124 specifically so it's not kryptonite and the rifle replacer

[unborn smelt]

didn't find it either there

I dunno - i personally would think it's either special ammo and 6 reserve but keep the dmg

or lower the dmg and keep the long ammo designation

[maiden pelican]

Weird, I rememeber it saying somewherr

[unborn smelt]

as for ammo imo it should go to 6 no matter what to be consistent with pax and CCP

[maiden pelican]

Nah buff pax and scottfield base variants (and melees) to 15 spare

[young lintel]

Guys, say that im not alone with packetloss problem today on eu servers

[unborn smelt]

but - most of all i think we should stop with nerfing everything because it reached the top spot after the competition was nerfed

[maiden pelican]

And buff the Centennial to 12 spare

[maiden pelican]

THIS

[wispy snow]

IMO Hunt's got more of a problem with power creep than things being underpowered, so I'd prefer nerfs in general.

[unborn smelt]

I'm kind of tired of seeing everything other than long ammo that's worth wile being nerfed fast and often undeserved

[warm zephyr]

uppercut 9 pax 18 conv 24?

[unborn smelt]

maybe - but i prefer low reserves over plentiful reserves

[wispy snow]

IMO the problem is the things that need nerfing are the things that just make other weapon types more like long ammo. Custom ammo overall does that, default ammo is left in the dust. Buff default ammos, nerf custom ammos.

[unborn smelt]

give people resons to use ammo resupply or ammo crates

and make them consider shooting more careful

[unborn smelt]

I don't think so because long ammo needs competition

[wispy snow]

Yeah but what I'm saying is the default ammo should be the competition, not the special.

[unborn smelt]

I don#t think special is as bad tbh

[wispy snow]

fmjs and HV making compact relevant by being Dollar Store Long Ammo isn't great.

[unborn smelt]

i have to disagree

it allows you to spec into one of the multiple long ammo upsides

[wispy snow]

We're not going to get actual changes if Crytek just goes "use fmj, don't worry about it".

[unborn smelt]

but you never get all of them

you either get velocity but lack dmg and range

[wispy snow]

But compared to default ammo, you also basically get no downsides. Again, if there's a balance problem, address it with the base weapon.

[unborn smelt]

or you get range but lack dmg and velocity

[wispy snow]

Custom ammo balancing entire guns feels like a band aid fix and we've seen how much trouble that causes with the New Army and Slate.

[unborn smelt]

well yes and no - special ammo is a downside

[wispy snow]

Slate with buckshot? Good but who cares, Slate with slugs? Now we're talking.

[unborn smelt]

as is loosing velocity

as is high cost

[wispy snow]

All of those downsides are negligible.

[unborn smelt]

now i agree i'd love to see some ammo types work less pay more get better stuff

specifically slugs and HV

[wispy snow]

The conversion for example, fmj might as well be the default ammo.

You get plenty, it's already cheap, 30m/s is nothing.

[unborn smelt]

30m/s isn#t much but again with how people claimed it's the most important stat it's something

being special ammo is a downside, and costing more than the base gun is too

it's still not expensive tho

the bigger issue again is IMO ammo stacking

because you can just stack that FMJ CCP with a winnie

what i like specifically about FMJ is that it increses high skill areas, being wallbangs and landing shots on high range with bad velocity.
What i don't like is that it's in almost every dualie pair that can use it because RNG hipfire negates the velocity and high reserves the special ammo downside

[wispy snow]

Again, I don't think you really need to. 18 spare is a lot. I think fmj, hv and slugs all need further downsides. Slugs tbh just need a full rework.

[unborn smelt]

with HV i wish there'd be a ammo pool decrease or at least a more significant recoil increase

[unborn smelt]

well just before 18 spare was not much...

and the discussion multiple times said buff spare compact

[wispy snow]

Never said FMJ should get the same reserves for no penalty.

[unborn smelt]

It's not terribly few - but it's still ass velocity and bad compact dmg

[wispy snow]

My point is more compared to normal compact, 18 vs 18, you're getting less from pickups but you're still getting a good amount and have enough for a fight. Special ammo down at like, 9, starts to hurt more depending on your weapon type.

[unborn smelt]

special ammo always hurts compared to normal as you need to get special boyes which are rarer by design

and yes if you get mostly single figts 18 is enough

if you get third partied or need to fight more than a single team 18 can get really few really quick

and it does cost more than twice what a base conversion without special ammo costs

we know from the past that stockpiling small disadvantages makes them not worth using to beginn with

FMJ is the way it is because it was garbage before

[quartz viper]

I think FMJ is in pretty good spot, I agree that HV could use some more downsides

[unborn smelt]

FMJ could propably also do with a slight nerf

if it were not for single pistols i'd agree it should get reduced ammo count

[wispy snow]

FMJ is only really a problem on pistols I think anyway, on rifles the velocity hit is more noticeable.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think it's pistols in general - i only think it's an issue on dualies

[quartz viper]

Which brings us back to the point that dual pistols just shouldn't get double the ammo pool of single pistols

[unborn smelt]

well yes and no - i think that as long as they can't ADS its fair to get a large ammo pool

[wispy snow]

Not in terms of being good, but in terms of being unfun/unhealthy, I also think it's bad with fanning and levering. Spamming that many bullets that go straight through cover is a bad idea.

[unborn smelt]

But i also think the precise hipfire should be replaced with slower (50 - 60 Rpm max) clunky (increased recoil, maybe increased swayafter each shot) ADS

[wispy snow]

Again, not good or meta, but something that has high potential to be unfun.

[unborn smelt]

on a single pistol with fanning i see no real issue

because that's a lot of ammo going down the drain

and if stacking weren't a thing fanning 6 / 24 rounds is a big commintment and can't be done all willy nilly

[wispy snow]

Again, it's not good, it's unfun. Sure if someone empties a chain pistol into a wall fishing for a kill, that's not great for the long term success of that match, but the person that gets killed by it isn't gonna feel happy.

[half stag]

you might get your slugs nerf wish soon as they updated the description of that ammo type to include "Reduced ammunition" eventhough it doesn't rn

[wispy snow]

God I hope so.

I'd prefer an actual rework but I'll take it.

[unborn smelt]

But we can't deny every strat that maight be unfun either

as long as they aren't valid enough to be repeated over and over it's fine

[wispy snow]

Again, for me the idea is "long ammo hits hard, shoots through walls good, shoots slow, limited ammo". FMJ is "shoots through walls good, shoots fast, not terribly limited ammo". I think that crosses a line that makes it less fun.

[unborn smelt]

there is a narrow path between trying to discourage too unfun behaviour and making sure not to gatekeep how people are allowed to play

[wispy snow]

Regardless of how good it is or not, I think spamming boss walls with chain pistol/dualies fmj is something that is fine to be discouraged.

Because again, even if it only works once per match, the person that gets killed by it isn't gonna be happy.

[unborn smelt]

it shoots through walls, but hits weak, and it is more plentifuly but die to low dmg also needs more ammo or more precision to kill

[half stag]

not to mention limb dmg modifiers are still the same as regular ammo, so long still retains that ease of use

[unborn smelt]

and especially compact FMJ wont onetap you for loosing 25

[unborn smelt]

long has the same modifiers

but it has the high base dmg to still be enough to kill with the same modifiers

[half stag]

really? interesting, tho to be fair long has just absurdly high dmg

[half stag]

yea

[wispy snow]

Again, I'm not saying it's good, but spamming rounds and boss rooms however bad it is, isn't gonna be fun for the person who does get killed by it.

[unborn smelt]

only head multiplier is diffrent

and there long has the lowerst one at 4 times

[unborn smelt]

It doesn't need to be

We can't gatekeep what's fun when and shouldn't discourage smth as situational as blind wallbangs either IMO

[wispy snow]

As a hypothetical, suppose there's a weapon in hunt that is an instant kill target seeking missile, but in order to take it, you get to bring in nothing else, cannot pick anything up, and you only get one shot. That is balanced, because you shoot your shot, get your kill and then are useless, but the person being killed by it isn't going to care about how it's fair in the long term, it feels bad in the short term. Extreme example, but that's the idea I'm getting at. FMJ enabled something that didn't previously really exist, and I don't think is fun or healthy as it stands.

[unborn smelt]

sure it sucks if you die to it - as it does getting bursted by an avto, or blown up by explosive bolts etc. But from my experience on PC it's not nearly enough to be OPressive enough to be nerfed or to make it a nogo as a sideeffect for potential positive changes

[wispy snow]

This could also be a console difference, because chain pistol still is very common on console, so you will, somewhat regularly see teams running all chain pistols and spamming boss room walls. It's not super effective, they'll just die to the third party, but it's a negative experience for whoever they use all that ammo on.

[unborn smelt]

I mean sure - on PC you see fanning chain every now and again and it does feel shit to die to it.
But then again it also feels bad to die to a throwing axe OHK - however the frequency with which it happens is so low that i don't think removing all the good possibilities the throwing axes bring to gameplay is worth it to not have the frustrating deaths to one.

And the frequebcy with which chainpistol fanning works night be a big diffrence between console and PC

which explains why we feel this diffrent about that situation

[wispy snow]

It's not an exaggeration to say that chain pistol might be the most common weapon on console.

[unborn smelt]

TBH i wouldn't be opposed to a chain pistol rework

[wispy snow]

I still regularly fight good teams, 5 and 6 stars, and afterward we loot them and they're all running mosin + chain pistol. IMO that's the console meta, mosin chain pistol.

[unborn smelt]

nerf fanning considerably even more - but give it the option to swapp out chains and get 2 interchangable chains like mags that allows to take 2 ammo types

I think that while it could backfire would be a fun idea

[wispy snow]

IMO chain pistol would be cool with a lower rate of fire but maybe more accurate. Like the slowest fanning.

[unborn smelt]

would mean you need to pay double for full FMJ and would be way worse with fanning

But it'd also essentially get a swift reload when changing the chain

[opaque reef]

@hybrid forum I agree about the old recoil but it should only apply to regular ammo.

[maiden pelican]

The main thing really, I want compact to be not just viable but competitive