feedback-discussion

[heady gorge]

I see a lot of hate in the Feedback channel on region locks and ping limits. I find a lot of the players that kill me are ASCII boxes ( Chinese or Cyrillic font), playing with a high ping. I see this when spectating my partners as well. They are never aiming at where the enemy is. Always 200ms behind.
I welcome a ping limit, if your ISP sucks, that sucks, but it shouldnt ruin the game for everyone else.

[hot vigil]

I agree, tho sometimes you might get downed early in a round, but still survive and then die later. Do we only record latest death or all deaths? Where do we see them post-game?

Not that there ain't solutions to those questions, just that it can be a hassle to implement

[heady gorge]

Yeah, I can suggest it as a wishlist, but the change for the post death cam would be a huge work for such a old game.

Also interesting tactic, for the strategic cheater. Only kill 1 player of a duo/trio, so they never get to see the kill cam.

[tribal wyvern]

@north onyx
Issue here is that you see it as them killing you after dying, but thats not necessarily what happens.

[ashen turtle]

I've been playing the game on console since it came out. I really just love the game. I've been on the Prestige 100 for two days now. It was a damn long and hard road. I'm super happy to have finally made it and it's something special because only very few make it to Preatige 100. And now I find out that the prestige system should be changed?! Wow, thanks Crytek. You really know how to fuck your loyal players.

[frosty garnet]

@atomic lintel, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Vulture Buff - You can see dead bodies in dark sight up to 3 meters away. Costs 5 points```

[tribal wyvern]

Well have they told us how they're going to change it?

They could increase xp a bit or change the rewards, maybe alter what the XP affects.
Things change all the time, some systems are just flawed, like the prestige system. Hell the change they make could might aswell be reducing xp to unlock previous unlocked weapons.

Non of which would affect you whatsoever

[tawny meadow]

I'd say to just wait and have some more info.

[vague patio]

they shouldve added more skins for prestiging already

[tribal wyvern]

@atomic lintel
I both like & dislike it.
I'd prefer it being its own trait, but i do want to be able to locate dead bodies. It's essential to know how many players are left, if all in the teams died or if theres a last guy lurking etc.

I try to burn all bodies but not always possible.
And it would help with looting.

@full tusk
Big misconception here is "you got him first." Thats your clients view.
But according to server you could might aswell have been the one that shot last. Which means many of these trades could have ended in your misfortune instead.

And i bet my arse on that if they did remove this, there'd be raining down complaints "wHeRe DiD mY bUlLeT gO CRYTEK?!?!"
Like it did before.

All they can do is monitor it & hope to find something that is out of place, fix it. But if there isn't then well maybe the region lock could alleviate some of that, no guarantees tho.

[full tusk]

peekers advantage and all that garbage is still 10 times better than this, plus if the killwindow goes for both it doesnt actually do anything about peekers' and you literally hear every movement in the game so the CC encounters where this is the biggest issue would still easily have peekers' nullified

[pliant wren]

Killing a person doesn't magically make their bullets go away. Two people shooting eachother at the same time is a thing that happens.

I mean, they added it in and increased the window last year, they want trades to be a thing.

[atomic lintel]

5 meter body detection could be a standalone. Probably worth 4 points. I undervalued it in my suggestion post

[heady gorge]

Perhaps adding the ability to see toolbox/ammo/healthkits as part of this or another trait.
I dont have an issue seeing them, but maybe seeing if they are being used.

[tribal wyvern]

You mean CQ combat? Idk what CC encounter is.
Peekers advantage only exist for left peeking. And bullets vanishing would give the left peeker a bigger advantage, cuz a shot happening 0.2s after his, would not kill him. Now it does.

[full tusk]

Bruh what, left peeking and peekers adv are entirely different things

Left peeking is an issue with the camera not being centered peekers adv is a network latency problem

[tribal wyvern]

Never heard of hunt having a "peekers advantage" before. You're the first.

besides the left peeking

[full tusk]

Its not a hunt exclusive problem its something thats a problem in all FPS, but the way hunt solves it is unique

Most FPS just accept it because theres many "natural" counters. For example the fact that you dont know where the enemy is whereas the guy camping knows you only come from that one spot, also if he uses the angle correctly he will see you first, movement inaccuracy, blah blah. Theres a bunch of reasons its not that big an advantage otherwise youd see people play with insane ping left right and center to try and maximise the profit in for example cs and valorant

[native lodge]

its because it works against you too

[unborn smelt]

That's not entirely right

killtrades have always been in Hunt - they didn't add them anywhere along it's lifecycle

and the explanation is pretty simple - Hunt uses actual projectiles not hitscan.

According to the info we got provided by crytek they didn't intentionally increase the trade window either

[maiden pelican]

Trades were basically frame perfect before they change it so bullets fired from players dead on server side weren't invalidated

[unborn smelt]

what happened was many people regularly complained about their bullets dissappearing when they died- which according to crytek were wrongfully invalidated.
This had the sideeffect we experience more trades but in no way it was intentionally added

[unborn smelt]

afaik it was exactly the other way around

[maiden pelican]

I might have put a accidental double negative somewhere, I was editing that comment a lot

[unborn smelt]

bullets that were fired before dying but havent hit anything yet were deleted midair because the shooter died while it was already mid flight

[maiden pelican]

Yup, and now they aren't

[unborn smelt]

Which lead to people apparently rightfully so complaining about shots that should have ended in trades not killing the enemy

[maiden pelican]

The conclusion is trades with shotguns and melee are pretty common

Since one shotgunner would almost always kill the other without dying

[pliant wren]

I have to disagree here, trades are a direct result of bullets in flight not being tethered to a live person. What else would the result of the change be? That's like saying "they put a sign up that says 'Trash Here' above the dumpster, but they didn't intend for people to actually bring their trash there."

[unborn smelt]

with melee trades have always been common

even back when machete + winnie was Meta

[unborn smelt]

That's literally what i said tho

[maiden pelican]

Melee trades were common because your attack got released when you died, or you could release an attack before dying on client side and your corpse server side would still hit

[unborn smelt]

I essentially corrected the claim you made that "crytek wants more trades"

because as far as the info we got they wanted to improve hitreg by not wrongfully invalidating bullets anymore

intention was improving hitreg - more trades were just a byproduct

[maiden pelican]

They wanted less bullets to be invalidated because they players who fired them are dead. This directly leads to trades I would say. Though the purpose was not directly to create more killtrades.

I think one of the reasons it was considered hitreg is because bullets fired from players who died were generating the same reports as the other much more rare invalidations.

[pliant wren]

But they were improving Hitreg in a situation where two people shooting eacthother at the same time is the most likely cause of said invalidation. Do you really think that people were getting killed by AI or players they weren't targeting fractions of a second after they fired at a target so much that the devs decided to change it? The validation you're talking about is to make trades happen

[unborn smelt]

No...
"The validation you're talking about is to make trades happen"

The validation i was talking about is to not make people be pissed that a bullet that should have killed - didn't.

That rtesults in a trade usually - but that doesn't mean crytek wanted more trades

[maiden pelican]

I see what you mean but thats a distinction without a difference

They wanted less bullets fired from players who are killed to be invalidated.
This directly results in more bullets fired from killed players killing other players

[unborn smelt]

the intention to be exact, as the devs stated themselves, was improoving hitreg and they went about it by correcting the beggest cause of wrongful invalidations.
This was the intent - trades are a byproduct.

What you're saying is like claiming that if you saw wood your intention was making sawdust...

[maiden pelican]

More sawing a plank in half for a single plank, problem is not every will be satisfied at either option

Hell most players are unsatisfied with both

[native lodge]

and they did succeed in removing the validation issue

[calm hawk]

old option was kinda better.....

[native lodge]

which is good imo

[maiden pelican]

Yup

[calm hawk]

the new system leads to more tinfoil hat theories

[unborn smelt]

TBH i'm not a big fan of the frequency at which trades happen either

[calm hawk]

noone is

[unborn smelt]

But i personally like it better than robbing people of valid shots

[calm hawk]

id rather get some of my shots wrongfully invalidated

[native lodge]

I hated having my shots just disappear, more than I hate trades. trades do still suck though

[maiden pelican]

Trades within 15 meters are incredibly common in my experience

Seen a few matches where the last 2 teams besides me traded

[unborn smelt]

absolutely

[maiden pelican]

Long range trades are fun actually

[pliant wren]

From a strictly logical standpoint, i.e. if Crytek were robots without the ability to extrapolate the results of their actions, I might believe that. But they're people, they know the end result of that validation is going to be trades. And if they didn't want trades happening, all they'd have to do is revert the change.

And no, I'm not saying if you saw wood your intention is to make sawdust, I'm saying if you make cars and remove the airbags in your cars with the intention of lowering the profile of your steering wheel, you cannot claim you didn't know it would increase driving deaths in your vehicles. And should you go more than a few months without changing it having evidence of those deaths, you cannot claim you don't want those deaths, as you could have easily put the airbags back in.

[maiden pelican]

And trades are especially bad for solos

[unborn smelt]

trades are really really common - my guess why they happen less on long range is because it's less likely to happen that both you and your enemy place a killshot

[native lodge]

^

[maiden pelican]

There is still a timer as well

That might expire the bullet

[unborn smelt]

Well i think your looking at this to black and white ish

[native lodge]

trades happen all the time at distance if you are actually hitting each other, but the margin for error makes them happen less

[unborn smelt]

they decided its overall fairer to accept trades, even if not exactly desirable, in favor of better hitreg

[maiden pelican]

Melee and shotguns were a coinflip before, now its a 2 headed coin and heads is death for both players

[native lodge]

thats not true at all

[unborn smelt]

they don't need to want trades - they just need to dislike trades less than skewed hitreg

[maiden pelican]

Not every time

[native lodge]

you just can't expect to face tank shots anymore

which you defiantly could face tank more shots when, (what was it over 20% of the time their was invalidation?)

[unborn smelt]

To stay with the car/airbag analogy, if you want no airbags you will not use airbags no matter the possibilities.
if you just want a lower profile, you could in theory use a diffrent method than removing airbags, if such a method exists, and you likely would

[maiden pelican]

It was over 90-95% I think

[unborn smelt]

that's the driving diffrence of it being the main goal/intention - or being an onfortunate byproduct

[native lodge]

good god was it really that bad?

I didn't think that many mid air shots were being deleted

[maiden pelican]

Which having that much chaff in your hitreg reporting errors is sure fun to sort through I bet

Shows you how thin margins are for hunt combat sometimes

[pliant wren]

I get what you're saying, but they could implement a fix for trades if they wanted them gone, ie, compare shot speed and make it to where whoever fired first retains at least 1 hp. If they actually didn't want it, it wouldn't be there.

[unborn smelt]

I'm pretty sure it was not...

[maiden pelican]

I need to find the stream clip.

[unborn smelt]

No they can't - or well yes they could technically but you'd still fuck one player out of a kill he did deserve

[native lodge]

yeah I had numerous shots before get deleted mid air, but I don't it was 95%

[maiden pelican]

I think they said 90%

[native lodge]

but it was still higher than was fun to play

[unborn smelt]

And honestly - while trading can feel bad, i think it's factually the most fair option

because invalidation, as well as leaving the guy on 1 hp both fuck players out of a deserved kill

[maiden pelican]

I think the being reduced to 1 HP might be an OK thing, or some sort of get back up if you died from a trade to the last of a trio as a solo system

[pliant wren]

I agree and I feel like the devs agree too.

[native lodge]

I mean personally I think if you get shot at and with lethal damage you should die

no magic to save you

[maiden pelican]

Ok, so. If your team and the enemy team dies to a trade what would you think of everyone getting their hunter back

[native lodge]

not a fan

[pliant wren]

I've been killed by getting set on fire and back stepping into a red barrel. I didn't feel it was unfair, I felt stupid for forgetting it was there.

[native lodge]

alright

[maiden pelican]

Anyone remember the patch it was changed? Number wisem

[pliant wren]

I mean, I agree with you. IF the barrel can kill you, the dead man's bullet should too.

[native lodge]

yeah and prehaps the window is to big, and maybe they can fix that a bit

but I trades are still preferable to being robbed a kill imo

[maiden pelican]

"The bigger your latency to the server, the further back in time those rewrites can go—though we do have a hard cap set at 800 milliseconds."

So trades can happen almost a full second after someone dies

https://www.huntshowdown.com/files/wysiwyg/1e88b989f99d33eb41ca4e604e12aca4.jpg

[pliant wren]

@tender wasp I like the idea. if you get to that last mastery level with a weapon, there should be a skin for that. Maybe not as ornate and decorative as the premium skins, but something like all the wood on it is varnished walnut or cherry, the metal is blued iron, accented with silver and gold on things like the trigger guard and hammer.

[maiden pelican]

Seems to me with an average of 13 invalidated shots per match a good portion of that would have been shots after someone had died

And remember, not every single shot fired after someone died has to be a trade, any shot fired after they died before would be considered an invalidation, you could even see a few shots from fanninf being counted I would bet

[tender wasp]

Exactly. Just a version looking like one that is particularly cherished by its owner and in long use.

[queen jungle]

@alpine gust Crytek recently announced they're working on Crysis 4 as their next main release, I doubt we will see any Hunt sequel over the next couple of years.

[karmic ivy]

Thanks for clearing that up. So many people have it wrong that I was unsure who was right.

[karmic ivy]

meant to reply to this part...

[karmic ivy]

I concur, the missed shots is worse. I would take trades if I had to choose.

[karmic ivy]

I use shotguns half the time, and melee as often as I can. And my experience has not been like you describe. Melee and shotguns do not equal guaranteed kill trades

[maiden pelican]

Hyperbole of course

[karmic ivy]

It wasn't 90% was it?

[maiden pelican]

I am at work, can't look for and watch stream until my lunch at least

If it is 90% then what'll the outcome be

[karmic ivy]

I consider it a data point. So I include it here along with your opinion. If you think it is hyperbole, that is your privilege, we don't deny you that... of course.

[maiden pelican]

Do you think I said 90% of the invalidations were trades?

[karmic ivy]

no, I thought you were talking about this: "you just can't expect to face tank shots anymore
which you defiantly could face tank more shots when, (what was it over 20% of the time their was invalidation?)"

[maiden pelican]

So what do you mean when you said invalidation? That 20% of the shots invalidated were because of the player dying?

[karmic ivy]

you would have to ask Embers Nitro Salesman

[maiden pelican]

Ahh that wasn't you saying it

In any case here. Before I go comb the stream https://youtu.be/iPq3ZgiYzeo
Skip to 3:15 on phone so I can't share a timestamp

The MAJORITY of invalidated shots were from players who had died

[maiden pelican]

It was at least 50% from this youtube video

[waxen elm]

We have a mmr 5 again and can't find a lobby, it's not fun where we had 4, the lobby was always full, we had 4 laps in a row, lerre laps

[maiden pelican]

Whos hosting?

Maybe they have the wrong region selected, also monday around this time is pretty slow

[native lodge]

I see

[maiden pelican]

I am pretty sure it was 90% but satisfied enough that I'm not gonna ruin my lunch at work, I will look for it when I get home

[waxen elm]

Me and Europe we had 4.5 before and we always found something that's not fun for us because at 5 or 5.5 we hardly find any games and in fast play it doesn't matter what star you have and when I play USA I have that problem that the ball comes late or something like that, that doesn't make it any fun in the long run

[native lodge]

90% of all hit reg issues was this issue, but I am sure they said somewhere how often bullets from a dead player would become invalidated

because it wasn't all the time but it was frequent enough to notice

problem is I can't remember when or even if they talk about that exactly

I just remember something about it

[unborn smelt]

Yes and No.
The 800 ms are just the absolute top limit, they only come into play if nothing else invalidates the shot before, like in case of high ping, if the shooter dies before he died serverside

TBH i wish they never said anything about the 800 ms, because the vast majority of people missunderstands what it means

[maiden pelican]

It would probably be more like 400

[karmic ivy]

I know what you mean... But personally I think it is a good oppertunity to educate us all. I love this stuff, the details. And as a community we would be better off if we better understood the challenges of networking around the world. Just wishful thinking of course, I know they cannot do it that easy.

[unborn smelt]

essentially what happens with lag compensation, is the server gets diffrent info, at diffrent times from diffrent clients. It then pieces it together and creates a "true" state of the game which is the actions it validated, however it also has to invalidate wrong info sent by other clients at the same time.

So if somebody with high ping shoots you with lets say 800 ms ping, and you shoot him with 10 ms ping, what should happen is your shot likely reaches the server first, then the server checks if the high ping player has shot serverside already, if yes the projectile is created, if no the shot gets invalidated at this moment into the whole scenario, way way before reaching the 800 ms because your 10 ms ping + the time it takes the server to validate is what counts.

However lets say you don't see the high ping enemy, you pass a window and the high ping player sees you and shoots you on his client with 800 ms ping, nothing is there to invalidate his shot, he hit you on his client, and he wasnt killed serversidfe before shooting. The server then checks how old that info is before overwriting its history, which is validating the shot and updating the other clients. This is where the server checks if the info is older than 800 ms. If it isn't all is fine, if the info of the shot hitting is older than the 800 ms the server can rewrite its history - the high ping player get's "robbed" of a valid shot that would have hit if the ping wasn't too high

so it's not - as many believe if you kill the other player he gets an 800 ms window to still kill you. If that is the case (which it's not according to the last infos we got), then hit validation is fucked, because it's the serverside validations job to then say no.

[waxen elm]

Even if the 3 star hoste we have 5

[karmic ivy]

@unborn smelt I have a question. And that all makes sense, thank you for elaborating. It brings to mind a question about what this 800ms window does for "ping abuse". It was said in the stream that some rare cases allow high ping to take unfair advantage of hunts hit reg/hit validation system. I have seen some video of a player dieing to an attacker before being able to see more than a few pixels of the character comming around cover. So the question is: Is that (being shot without seeing the attacker) what is at stake with the exploiting of the system? I want to know because it is what I personally can guess happens, and is problematic. I am just now curious if I am right or not.

[maiden pelican]

What server region though, NA, EU?

[waxen elm]

Eu

[maiden pelican]

On their screen or were they being spectated

[unborn smelt]

If the peeker has stable high ping that coming around cover and instantly dying shouldn't really be possible, because lets assume the guy with 800 ms ping again, he peeks around a corner - that info takes 400 ms to travel to the server and then another few ms (half your ping) to travel to the other propably defending player.

This means the high ping player gets to see you 400+ ms earlier than you see him - but here's the issue, if the player then shoots you, the info of the shot takes the same 400+ ms to also reach the server from his client, because the delay for the peek and shot are the same, effectively eating up the entire "advantage" the high ping player got early.

[distant lark]

Hello, there are two files that the developers asked to send using the profiler, but the support site does not work. Where can I send these files?

[vague patio]

@maiden pelican tbh i dont like the idea of the weapon having a delay bewtween theinput and shot, especially on 3slotr wepaons. But at this point i really understand the argument for it, espacially considering how the things are balanced rn

realism

[maiden pelican]

The offcer carbines deserve a buff as well

If thats what you were meaning

[vague patio]

yea

carbine getting the delay is just overkill

[unborn smelt]

however there is two other possible scenarios :
Nr 1 - perspective is the issue. If the high ping player peeks the same time the low ping player retreats - it feels like dying to an enemy that had peekers advatage, but it was very unlucky perspective.

Nr 2 - lagswitches, You know how i explained above that a stable ping delays shots the same it does the peek - well with a lagswitch you can delay the peek with high ping, by deliberately introducing high latency and/or packetloss into your connection while after you switch it off the shots arent delayed anymore

[maiden pelican]

Why they dont get 28 or at least 21 spare is weird, and they could say puttinf a stock on it lets you pull easier, kinda like the precisions

[vague patio]

considering the delay, isnt there a method to "precock" double action in real life?

could then be a trait maybe

[unborn smelt]

This video is very specific to CSGO in most cases, so not 100% applicable to Hunt, but it explains the perspective thing very well https://youtu.be/3JaCcsmjYM8?t=402

[severe hinge]

Newest patch nerfed New Army way too hard. I think it would be already balanced with just the sway change and price increase. Reducing muzzle velocity that much is just too harsh for a medium priced pistol. I believe you should just reduce muzzle velocity of all compact fmj as a whole, that is what people have an issue with, not the guns themselves.

[maiden pelican]

I remember suggesting this a while back, you'd be able to cock the weapon for no delay on your next shot with X

[desert nest]

Yeah, that was too fucking hard. Just looked at the values and WTF

[maiden pelican]

It went from good to basically crap

Now instead of being a slightly better officer it's a worse officer

[vague patio]

literally just get the rof down

[maiden pelican]

Or swap it places with the nagant

Brin nagant to 97, put new army at 91 damge

Then swap their fire rates?

[vague patio]

that would not help

i think stat wise they were kinda comparable (except recoil and special ammo)

[maiden pelican]

It should've just got a price increase to $120

[vague patio]

the recoilfeltREALLY REALLY good so id rather seen a rof decrease

i really dont think there is no need for rvolver/pistol with 60+ rof

[vague patio]

honestly, dont think that would really change anything either

[lilac storm]

Nerfing RoF defeats the purpose of the gun unfortunately

They should have kept the RoF and just removed slugs entirely

[vague patio]

new army

[lilac storm]

Given us flechettes so that way buckshot and pennyshot arent entirely useless simply because of a slug nerf

Oh

Im talking about the slate

[maiden pelican]

They should've been brave and not added slugs to the slate

[lilac storm]

I 100% agree

[severe hinge]

^

[lilac storm]

And now they're nerfing the entire gun becuase of slugs

It makes me wonder if they even care about the entire gun or simply one aspect of it

[severe hinge]

Same for new army tbh, I feel like the entire gun is being nerfed cause of fmj

[lilac storm]

They definitely have bias when it comes to adding new stuff and changing stuff

Look at the scottfield

[vague patio]

i think slate before the update was also busted due to the rof. it was just too fast. something like 48 is already enough

[lilac storm]

The pax is useless now becuase they have scottfield favoritism

Slate was busted due to rof with slugs

[severe hinge]

Hopefully they add pax high velocity and then it could be used again

[lilac storm]

If you remvoe slugs, the gun is no longer busted

The rof means it can quickly kill with flechettes and its no deadlier than a terminus with levering

It would not be OP and could come to live as is

[vague patio]

scottfield getting spitfire was so weird. Id thought oh nicve,getting likemaybe 50 firerate. No almost 80

like

[lilac storm]

Its so dumb, right?

[desert nest]

not entirely. with the Scott field spitfire and swift, maybe. but in my experience I've seen more people running the Pax than the Scott field.

[vague patio]

i want some freshness reagrding firerate, but it just boils down to, slow af or outpacingly fast

basescottifeld is bad

[maiden pelican]

Basically nothing between 50 and 80

[vague patio]

yep

[lilac storm]

That doesnt make it bette rthan the scottfield

[maiden pelican]

Which is less than a shot per second to almost 5 in 3 seconds

[lilac storm]

The pax is useless compared to scottfield, it holds no niche over it. People run pax simply because of the way its looks. Theres no benefit

[vague patio]

especially 50-60 is interesting, as it is noticeably faster, but not downright spammable

[unborn smelt]

I mean i'd say the base Pax is better than the base scottfield

[maiden pelican]

A miniscule niche would be its better 2 tap potential

[unborn smelt]

the Rof while not huge is noticable

[vague patio]

scoot has better variants and special ammo

[maiden pelican]

Better special ammo

[unborn smelt]

and the price diffrence of 23$ is something most people are willing to pay

[desert nest]

it's got a faster bullet and I think more damage, which equates to better 2 tap potential

[unborn smelt]

the bigger issue IMO is that you get an amazing scottfield variant for essentially pax cost

[lilac storm]

Yeah but that doesnt make it better over

low recoil
more firerate
better reload speed
even better reload speed
better ammo types

[vague patio]

reload speed is only better on empty magazin

else its about the same or worse

but you dont do the spin

[queen jungle]

Whats the point of Slate now? They should have decreased the cost of the Terminus, instead Crytek increases the cost of Slate while also nerfing ammo reserves. 😞

[late wind]

Compact ammo spam 🤬

Medium ammo spam 🥰

What?

[unborn smelt]

who wants medium ammo spam ?

[late wind]

Everyone going to bat for the spitfire, schofiled swift, and new army.

Nobody asked for more rapid fire guns. Yet rapid fire guns we got. And people love them it seems.

[unborn smelt]

I mean schoffield swift ain't an issue IMO

Well people repeatedly ask for more rapid fire guns

[late wind]

It's kinda better than the chain pistol for lots of harassing fire. Especially with either dualies or fanning. It's constant fire because the reload is so short. Akin to the Berthier being the spammiest long ammo gun.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think we should have this many because fast firing and CQC sidearms are overall very saturated

[unborn smelt]

I don#t think it's a big issue because medium pistol ammo aint great by itself, it doesn't have very good fanning either, and it looses all unspent rounds on reload so you really need fanning to make use of it

[late wind]

I agree. I just want to know the logic of why the officer and Bergmann got nerfed into oblivion while the spitfire and new army exist. It's a strange double standafd.

[unborn smelt]

and most weapons that need traits turn out to not be that great most of the time, used to be the case with the X-bow and still is to a degree, happened to terminus, or pre buff winnie

and even with fanning i think the spitfire is more dangerous

[unborn smelt]

i do agree with that tho

[desert nest]

the logic behind the it having a faster firerate is weird anyway. as far as I know, that extra middle finger rest on the trigger guard doesn't let you shoot and cock it faster. It actually give's you a better hold to be more accurate.

[queen jungle]

Terminus has been mediocre for almost a year now, yet Crytek refuses to buff/reduce cost. Instead they make it even more reliant on a trait, makes no sense. And now they nerf Slate to the point it only makes Terminus look somewhat good in comparison

[unborn smelt]

slate aint that bad even after the changes, IMO...

[quick sleet]

Why would there be a delay on double action?

[desert nest]

Heavy trigger?

at least for the Officer. IIRC that gun has a 28 pound trigger pull

[quick sleet]

It still shoots as soon as you pull the trigger

Accidentally edited first post

[half stag]

when you pull the trigger, it cocks the hammer, and then it falls back down on the primer, resulting in a noticeable delay when using double actions

[quick sleet]

The hammer pulls while you pull the trigger

[queen jungle]

The changes only make Specter, Romero and Caldwell Rival look better. Especially if the spread is as big as that of Terminus as people have been saying

[desert nest]

and? if you have a heavy ass trigger pull, it's gonna take more time for you to fire it one after the other.

[half stag]

^

[quick sleet]

Lol sorry, but that's not how it works

It just makes it more difficult to pull

If anything, the hard pull would force the barrel down

[desert nest]

That is absolutely how it works. I've done it IRL, and that is how it works

[quick sleet]

You clearly haven't

[unborn smelt]

nagants can have reidiculously heavy trigger pulls

[quick sleet]

So the recoil would be harder, not a "delay"

[unborn smelt]

They are right - it's easier and assuming same force, faster to pull alight trigger than a heavy one

[quick sleet]

That would depend on where the trigger resets, but yeah I suppose "it takes longer"

[unborn smelt]

I mean we have to keep in mind - hunt is an eary of old often clunky weapons too

a double action trigger setup has a longer draw where it first cocks the mammer and then drops it, where a single action has a significantly shorter draw because it doesn't need to cock the hammer, which conveniently also reduces how much force is needed to pull the trigger

[quick sleet]

That's fair, but it also isn't exactly "realistic." Nothing misfires, nothing duds...

[unborn smelt]

That being said i don't think adding a delay in a video game is good

[quick sleet]

I own several, but thank you

And if that's the case

[unborn smelt]

I'm not writing it specifically for you, or you alone- also in case others inevitable also read the convo and may not know

[quick sleet]

I wonder...

[unborn smelt]

there's a reason most videogames purposely butcher double action revolvers

[quick sleet]

I wonder what difference it would make if the initial mouse click (on those models) didn't fire, but the release of the click

[unborn smelt]

that alone can feel very sluggish

[quick sleet]

True, but it sounds less clunky than a delay

[unborn smelt]

In most games that have a function like that (often something like click has one effect and hold and release another) i absolutely hate guns that fire on button release

yeah dealy is even worse IMO

[desert nest]

This I agree with

[unborn smelt]

This was the vid i was looking for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo89rzEK1Ks

shows the exact "issue"

[quick sleet]

Interesting, I'll take a look. Thank you!

[karmic ivy]

I see, thank you. I would tend to think these extreme cases would be confined to cheaters, since as you say most of us have stable ping, and to run around with high enough delay to break things all the time would not work. So, considering only a situation where a cheater has software control of his latency... Could he manipulate the system to give him 800ms or latency at the moment of contact, and then drop it to something more reasonable just before the shot (would need some form of automated software assist ofc for that timing) This is just my curiosity now, wondering how things could or might happen. Also curious, do you think the community is alarmed about ping abuse because it gets used by cheaters (and therefore generates real stories that get spread), or do you think it is caused by fear as a result on not understanding how the system works (and NOT actual cases of exploitation or cheating)? Which do you think is closer to the root cause of the alarm?

[quick sleet]

Ok, I see where the /idea/ for the delay comes from. It's still wrong, but I understand the concept. It is just a very difficult thing to account for I suppose.

[karmic ivy]

just saw this, I think that asnwers my next question too. Still curious about the last question if you feel like answering that one. thank you.

[quick sleet]

Thank you for sharing that!

[steady vapor]

slate got nerfed already?

[unborn smelt]

changes for both new guns and officer are on todays test server patch

[unborn smelt]

the cut off part at the top is the caldwell 92 new army

[steady vapor]

seems reasonable except extra sway on the nagant officer?

[calm hawk]

bad update , leave ooficer alone

[steady vapor]

yeah sounds like officer got rekt when it really didnt deserve it

[unborn smelt]

I think that's very reasonable too

[half stag]

community: buff officer, new army will destroy it crytek: okay, nerfs officer

[unborn smelt]

somehow everyone complains about spam but don't like if spam gets nerfed

[wispy snow]

Mentioned it in another chat, but the problem with this IMO is spitfire making it okay because it's not technically double action.

[queen jungle]

Yes, they triple nerfed it to the point it makes Terminus look good. Ridiculous as people have been calling the Terminus mediocre, too expensive and too reliant on a trait to be good for almost a year now. Crytek must be tone deaf, if they wanted to nerf the Slate they should have reduced its fire rate and/or magazine instead

[unborn smelt]

To be fair i think buffing officer would not have been good

[half stag]

or Idk, maybe make the terminus not so trait reliant

[unborn smelt]

officver has already outvalued many single actions

[wispy snow]

Trait reliant weapons is a bummer IMO. Crossbow and terminus suffer the worst for it.

[queen jungle]

Yes like I said, people said this for almost a year now. But because people said Slate looks better than Terminus they nerfed Slate to the point it makes Terminus look “good”

10/10 balancing logic

[wispy snow]

Slate still looks better than terminus.

By a lot.

IMO the slate nerfs just made the comparison to the specter more fair.

[half stag]

I'd rather see buffs to older guns, than just nerfing new guns into the ground (sans semi autos/double actions cuz those are difficult enough to balance already)

[half stag]

or as someone suggested, replace slugs on the slate with flechette

[queen jungle]

That doesn’t say much, changes only made Romero, Caldwell Rival and Specter more appealing

I’ll take Specter 100% over Slate now

Even Romero for how reliable it is

[wispy snow]

With how crytek works, I would expect them to just plan on giving every shotgun every ammo eventually. We're past the point of special ammos being restricted in any meaningful ways.

[half stag]

not wrong sadly

god, if slate didn't have slugs

I genuinely think it wouldn't have been nerfed

but no

they gave it slugs

[calm hawk]

they should ctrl+z this last update

[queen jungle]

Yeah I hate slugs for that reason

[half stag]

the buckshot on it is pretty shit (the spread is close to caldwell rival levels of bad)

[wispy snow]

Slugs are what put slate over the top. The buckshot comparison to other shotguns would still be bad, but slugs are the thing drawing attention.

[half stag]

yep

[karmic ivy]

Good vid, thank you

[wispy snow]

Slugs flatten out all shotgun stats so the only thing that matters is ROF and ammo, that's the core issue.

[half stag]

even though its not realistic, slugs could have different dmg values/drop off ranges based on barrel length for each shotgun type

used to be like that when they first arrived on test server

don't know why they changed it from that

[steady vapor]

I haven't tried it yet so my opinion is kinda worthless but sounds like increased recoil on slate is a decent way to balance it while keeping the rof?

[wispy snow]

Yeah none of their decisions with custom ammo have made much sense IMO. Uranium jacketed fmj bullets is a big wtf.

[half stag]

yea, but it literally just cements you needing to run slugs, cuz nobody has taken into account how bad buckshot is on the slate, despite the large magazine size

[steady vapor]

I differ from some people here that I think ROF is design space that can offer more variety (most of the other gun characteristics are saturated) but they have to be really careful with it, these nerfs sound fair (sans officer), I would say the initial slate and officer were too much for the ROF they had. Sway and recoil and muzzle velocity need to be poured on if they are gonna offer guns with better ROF. And looks like they moved towards that so 👍

[half stag]

hell specter has remained underpicked due to the pump, despite it having a similar mag size and much better range than the slate

[steady vapor]

Yeah agreed slugs kinda seperate issue so one thing at a time hopefully

[wispy snow]

It feels like both the new army and the slate are suffering for FMJ and slugs being problems that crytek doesn't want to fix.

[queen jungle]

Specter will be a better and cheaper Slate now lmao. The tighter spread and more ammo reserves alone make it more appealing to me as I don’t use slugs

[unborn smelt]

Well the important part is "to me"

the huge Rof increase of the slate over the specter is kind of important if you don't get the OHK

[steady vapor]

@gentle rover we can dream 🥲 (your suggestion lol)

[half stag]

also big problem with the two new guns, is that we have no clue where they unlock in the bloodline (meaning there is no gauge for what their power level should be)

[unborn smelt]

Just for a comparison - the specter fires at 40 Rpm, which is faster than any of the long ammo rifles, and the centennial, but equal or slower than anything else, which means any pistol competes if the shotgun won't OHK, even traitless and even an uppercut.

the slate on the other hand fires at 58 Rpm which is nearly a 50% increase over the specter, and is faster than allmost all rifles, even outperforming a winfield without iron repeater, as well as faster than a big amount of sidearms.

this while not exactly great for it's OHK ability allows it to perform way better at saturating the area with lead, and competing in 2 taps

[wispy snow]

A slate with pennies would be a pretty scary gun for that reason. Doesn't need traits, only needs like 3 pennies to land to get a kill.

[frosty garnet]

@topaz whale, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Weapon Variant: LeMat Spitfire
A more rapid firing LeMat would be nice. It's my go-to sidearm with FMJ's but feels a bit lack-luster before you get fanning

Or maybe a slight damage boost (still less than Conversion pistol but more than the new Army 92)```

[queen jungle]

If you want a shotgun with high RoF you just go with C&K or Terminus with levering now, both of which are faster. Also, a shotgun being able to “compete in 2 taps” isn’t an advantage when those type of guns are made for 1 taps. Something Romero and Specter will do more reliable, even Caldwell Rival probably

[unborn smelt]

caldwell and afaik terminus have worse spread so worse OHk potential, and 2 taps do matter, yes ideally you want to OHK but special ammo can make great use of good 2 tap potential

And there's the missconception, shotguns are made with a possibility to onetap, but not all are made to onetap very reliably, the terminus for example excels not at onetapping but at harrassing the opponent with high Rof

The slate specifically has enough RoF to out perform most guns in 2 taps should the first one not kill, and it gets good QoL when using special ammo, unlike the terminus it can maintain the Rof in ADS which is very important for slugs, and even a slate with slugs is still 100$ cheraper than a crown

[unborn smelt]

dayum you got really unlucky

half a meter more and you'd likely have survived on 1 hp

[cunning shuttle]

this is not unlicky, that shit shall not dmg this much to cheast this far

[unborn smelt]

Oh wait my bad

you're on 125 and it's not a headshot

[cunning shuttle]

devs shall thae this spec ammo out of the game, you can1t balance it at all

take

[stoic vapor]

if anything it needs a cost buff

caldwell with slugs isnt that short of a bolty price wise

plus it need special ammo boxes

[grizzled sedge]

slugs just dont need to exist

[tribal wyvern]

@cunning shuttle
Just...what? what the hell does any of that mean.

[cunning shuttle]

well if it is not set like it is set i would have been able to upload the screenshot with the rage but if you are not blind you can see i uploaded it here ty for the just... what?

[grizzled sedge]

This man lives with a permanent stroke looks like

[maiden pelican]

If everyshotgun has slugs its literaly just performance concerns that everything doesn't have starshells

[burnt mulch]

starshell is unironically a viable special ammo for the romero

but by design it doesn't work with anything else.

[wispy snow]

Combination of that and effort vs payoff. Star Shells will be niche no matter what gun they're on, probably not even worth the effort.

[restive halo]

#game-ideas message

#game-ideas message

hello Devs, my suggestion ideas get positive feedback, maybe you need to notice it. Thank you

[gentle rover]

One day my friend, one day 🙂

[karmic ivy]

Feedback on SBMM: I have played since about march last year. So about one year. My point in mentioning that is SBMM was implemented very shortly after I started playing. Since most of my timer here so far has been spent with SBMM enabled I can say that my in game kill/death ratio is based on SBMM almost exclusivly. And the point of bringing that up is to say that I think, based on the score I K/D score I have, that the SBMM is working well. You have achieved a good method of sorting players as far as I can tell. My K/D score is 1.28 now. It started down near .7 and has been rising as I have gotten better at the game over the last year. However, and this is the important part. It has been 1.28 for almost the last two months. That never happens in most games. And I think the reason it is happening here is because I have reached my proper rank (I go between 3 and 4 stars regularly, I have been as high as 5 but only once.) and so since I have remained in 3-4 star rank for long enough, my K/D score has settled into a regular 1.28 (I have around 2300 kills and 2100 deaths at this point). This I believe is a sign that the environment has been stable (and therefore well matched). I play mostly with my wife, playing duo mode. Sometimes I go solo, or get random team mates. I would say over 75% of my play is duo mode with my wife. I think that makes the metrics pretty stable and clear. My experience has been that the SBMM works well, I get opponents both better and worse than me, but never too much. I play on US servers, primarily west. I think in theory if SBMM is working, one would expect players who have reached their proper rank to average about 1.0 for K/D score. And I think that is basicly what we are seeing with my stats. Wanted to share that and say GREAT WORK! SBMM in hunt is the ONLY matchmaking I have used that works well. I know I don't represent the whole spectrum, but you did great with the 3-4 star ranks!

[stoic vapor]

@grizzled sedge why dont you want weapon names below the skin

@late wind bro

#game-ideas message

not even that long ago

[late wind]

Their's is a shotbolt. Which is lame. We don't need starshells for the crossbow. We have them for shotguns.

[stoic vapor]

thats exactly what you suggested

[late wind]

Fusees =/= flares.

[stoic vapor]

my guy

just

im not doing this fuck off

[late wind]

Like I'm really gonna be talked down to by the coward who took down his awful trapdoor idea because it got one too many downvotes.

[stoic vapor]

trapdoor?

[late wind]

Trapdoor Springfield. Making the sawed off a 1 slot. That idea so bad I actually had to close my phone I was laughing so hard.

[stoic vapor]

when did I mention a trapdoor?

tf

i started to realize it was dumb too

at least I can admit that *cough

[crystal plume]

Keep it respectful.

[late wind]

You're sound like you're more afraid or downvotes than I am of anything...

[stoic vapor]

its 11 where I am so like I said kindly fuck off

also learn to type faster

[late wind]

Dude. I didn't come in here acting hostile. I'm trying to contribute to the discussion. But this guy won't quit.

[stoic vapor]

your idea is a blatant rip

[late wind]

Dude you asked for the Krag.

[stoic vapor]

yeah

[dim heron]

Enough, both of you

[stoic vapor]

so what?

[dim heron]

drop it

[grizzled sedge]

Ah yes, this is contributing

[late wind]

Better than most people do.

[stoic vapor]

better than thinking necro is OP

[late wind]

Dude you really can't stop thinking about me huh? Well I'm sorry but you're not my type.

[stoic vapor]

damn

pax youre my runner up

I suggest a nice leech steak in healing water

then head to the basement

I got a setup there

[burnt mulch]

@opaque reef repost your idea cuz bot didnt react and i wanna upvote it lmao

[hot vigil]

@opaque reef Haven't played with the slate yet myself, but I agree, special ammo could be a great tool to level the playing field for "lesser weapons", but instead all the great guns too got the best special ammo options.
I would love to see that romero had access to slugs as its "special thing" over a Crown & King.

[opaque reef]

i think i might be soft banned from suggestions-ideas

[jovial lodge]

Nah, the bot just sometimes misses a post

[opaque reef]

it would also be nice if slugs acted differently based on what gun it was in. make the OHK for say the rival only 12m with slugs, but give romero 17m just as an example

[hot vigil]

Also: God damn why do I have to pay the same amount of hunt dollars ($200) for the Romero slugs but I get like HALF the amount of Slugs the same price gives me for the C&K.

[ruby magnet]

If I may give my own 2 cents. I totally agree on taking a look if the base buckshot was problematic or if it was the slug version that's problematic.

I feel like they designed the slate with the iron devastator perk in mind. Which... the PERK needed more love in. I.e. more guns on which it works.

But with iron devastator comes slugs. Flechettes won't encourage the use of iron devastator unless you tighten the spread to near pinpoint which doesn't happen.

They design an iron devastator shotgun, but if you gave it flechette instead of slug then you've designed a weapon to NOT use it.

[hot vigil]

Dunno, still like using iron devastator on my flechette Terminus. But I agree, issue with iron devastator is that only slugs are the one ammo type that truly benefits from it (due to single slug and longer range capabilities).
Guess the introduction of Birdshot aka a shot that gave longer range for reduced damage (but perhaps some nicer bleed) would give more use for the iron devastator without making it the Slug killer perk.

Guess that is just a lesser flechette, but still.

[vague patio]

they love their slugs, every shotgun has them. extremely unlikely they would just exclude the slate

[opaque reef]

then they should really make each gun have different stats for slugs.

[pure quest]

@karmic ivy sbmm does not work. You have a few flaws in your reasoning. First being that the longer you play, the harder it is the move your KD. You can die several games in a row and it wont change.
Kd is absolute garbage to see if it works or not. Especially for longer playing people. I can do fuck all I want in hunt and it wont change in the slightest. A better change would be showing the KD over the last 100 games or so, so it's more dynamic and actually reflective of your recent gameplay.

Also, the 4* range elo is about the only range where sbmm works as there is enough players. The moment you get into 5 or 6 stars, it's terrible because there is just a lack of players, and the skill between the 5 and 6 stars varies hugely. This is especially noticeable on console because of its smaller playerbase. As a 5/6* trio, we often encounter the same people back to back in successive games. Miss the queue because one is going to a toilet, and it's a good chance its already empty.

You should have a look at the MMR graph, but the real one with a normal x-axis, not that shitty thing that favours the current system.

[opaque reef]

big disagree on that one. sbmm might feel like it's working perfect if you're upper 5-6 star range, or mid 4 star, but anyone in the no-man's land of high 4/low 5 gets nothing but bad games where you get dunked on by way better players all night. my trio had to turn sbmm off it was getting so bad. literally like 10-15 games with no bounty, until we all got busted down to 4 star, then maybe 1-2 good games before we got promoted back to the no-fun zone.

[pure quest]

Yeah that's the same for me. You go up way to fast, but go down incredibly slow.

I'm guessing it has to do with being able to kill 1 or 2 people to get some elo boost, but lose everytime anyway. So you'll never win but elo keeps going up so you'll win less and less

Imo, elo should be based on both kills and successful bounty extracts, not just kills.

[steady vapor]

Yeah some individual balancing like this might be a really good idea? I feel dualies could also use some individual balancing instead of the blanket nerf treatment they git. But Cryteks design philosophy does not seem to be in line with different slug/special ammo values for every gun. It would be a pretty huge shift and I doubt they want to go that route as its more confusing. Maybe they would be more willing if it varied amongst subsets of guns in the same class, like lever action/bolt action get different slug values etc

[normal horizon]

what would stop people from going into games and killing themselves to drop their elo when elo is affected by bounty extracts

[opaque reef]

Elo is a really bad system for a game like hunt. It works in chess where it's always 1v1, but there is too much variation in hunt to say "oh that 3 star killed a 5 star, he's a grand master now" it should really just be a flat +1 for each kill and -1 for each death.

[opaque reef]

except that slugs actually performed differently for each shotgun when slugs first came out. so i know they CAN do it, i just don't know why they don't want to.

[steady vapor]

I just edited and was thinking theyd be more likely to do it amongst subsets of guns in the same class, like lever action/bolt action, breach load, types of pistols within each ammo class etc

[hot vigil]

What is currently stopping people from running into a match shooting loudly in the air until someone shoots them?

[normal horizon]

that is a strawman

it shouldn't be made even easier and without affecting kd ontop of it

[opaque reef]

how so? dumping mmr is a thing in this game. just because it takes someone else to do it for you doesn't mean people don't abuse the system.

[normal horizon]

not sure you understand the meaning of strawman arguments. just because it is a thing now does not mean it should be made even easier in any way shape or form

attaching elo to bounty extracts is a surefire way for it to get abused to stay in lower elo especially since most people who play long time play for pvp and not the bounty as it is

bounty extract is not a good measure for elo in my opinion it is abusable upward to get easy 6 stars for who wants it and it is easy abusable downward for easier games for who want it

[steady vapor]

I think money becoming irrelevant once you hoard enough is a failure of the game design, it removes what should be a huge incentive to go for bounty.

[normal horizon]

that is a whole other discussion that I am not going to have 🙂

[steady vapor]

Yeah it ties into elo and incentivizing bounty

But goes a whole nother direction tons of implications, we would likely have to wait for a sequel for the economy overhaul needed to make money a relevant incentive

[pure quest]

nothing, as a succesful bounty extract should be a small multiplier/bonus. Kills/deaths still being the main way to adjust elo. But consinstently winning and extracting should make it a bigger bonus.
Extracting with no kills at all should then also have very little (or no) effect on your elo either

To prevent people from 'just killing and ignoring bounties', the exp could then perhaps be very decreased from killing people/AI, and use the bounty as a multiplier for exp gained as well, so if you want to level a hunter, you want to kill and get a bounty, not just farm some meatheads and extract.

[steady vapor]

Im going to try and drag you in, imagine if there was some sort of wagering system/pot for the bounty, while money was an actual factor 😗 would not fit or work with the game as is but a guy can dream lol I think theres potential, maybe proceeds are split between trio to keep it reasonable

Dota2 had wagering during battlepass and it was really fun lol

[calm hawk]

😗

[pure quest]

in other words, Bounties should be a positive multiplier as its effectively 'winning' a game. Either an elo multiplier in case of killing people, and an exp multiplier in case of killing people and AI.
Plenty 'sweatlords', to call them that, wont go into a proper fight unless they're decked with at least fanning/doctor etc. They literally farm AI as a solo for a few games before playing a regular one.
Make it worth it to always go for bounty.

Heck, I'd even enjoy displaying a Succesful bounty extract ratio over last 100 games instead of the KDA. The focus on KDA involves toxicitiy and camping (and it being kda over total time, it hardly moves anyway at some point and no longer reflects your actual kda so its near useless).

[plush ledge]

Who farms ai to get trait points and avoids pvp in his first match? Thats a joke right?

[pure quest]

nope

not a joke, i wish 😄

welcome to the sweatlords of console

[calm hawk]

dont ask questions you dont want answers to 😗

[steady vapor]

Temporary rotating event modes so we can play bows/sabers only plz kthx

[plush ledge]

You get called out for wasting time when you go farm ai after a server wipe when you play with try hards. Anyone who only suggests to me let's farm the first match would be a insta dodge. I know some farmers but those guys aren't try hards in any Form they're just bad players who avoid pvp

[steady vapor]

Hot take, light the shadow would have brought more players in, more streamers to try, if there was a smaller map event mode with bows and throwing axes only

[normal horizon]

but that would just add to what you said earlier about elo just going up constantly so how would this change that if its little or no effect on the elo

[steady vapor]

You guys are out here discussing real issues while I am talking to myself about things no one is asking for lmao

[opaque reef]

hard pass

i hated LTS

don't like being forced to use specific weapons for any reason

[opaque reef]

the bracket system is what's busted about matchmaking.

if you pick sbmm there should always be 6 brackets, and you should always be against people in your bracket.

[pure quest]

@normal horizon True, but perhaps elo per death/lost game should receive some stronger modifier as well or something. Or spread the elo over more games.
I dont have all the answers, as i dont know exactly how the elo system works with modifiers etc (just show the elo number already? Every other game does it).

elo works for chess and there's a clear winner or loser. Same with something like overwatch. Here however, there's 1 (maybe 2 winners) whoever is last standing and takes the bounties. Everyone else loses. The whole dynamic of this makes it difficult to have a properly working elo.

Issue now is you go up fast, while losing every single game. Makes it unfun to play at times.

Example: I did a elo-dropping streak, semi-on-purpose, but running just romero dragonbreath and then machete them whenever on fire (lot of fun, but not very effective).

Played that loadout for several days to go from 5 to 3 star. It literally took me 3 games to go back get back into 5* . (one was a lucky grenade by killing a 6* which i assume was responsible for going up that fast.

[opaque reef]

if there aren't enough people for that bracket you get an empty game. if you don't want empty games, turn sbmm off.

really simple solution.

[pure quest]

issue is the skill within a bracket varies quite a bit, and there isnt always 6 brackets 😉

[steady vapor]

That was more just a joke of an example than something Id actually want implemented, I still believe in the general idea that a smaller map mode would be better to ease new people in than shoving the entire map down their throats in games that take 20-30 minutes. Let people have access to practicing their aim on real people. Ive played so many rounds where I never fired a shot or died from someone I never saw

[normal horizon]

Matchmaking systems are always difficult so I didn't expect you to have all answers I was just curious about the idea of elo attached to extractions since it has been brought up before but personally I don't see that go well.

Regarding losing your elo it's mostly dependant on if you keep dying by equal or higher elo people cause then it takes longer but if you get killed by people lower than you it should go just as fast as when you're lower and killing higher skilled people

but I don't have all the numbers either so I can't really comment in detail but I do see this same thing talked about more so we do keep an eye on the feedback about matchmaking 🙂

[pure quest]

i've made a more in depth suggestion at some point adding this

As bounty = winning a game, i feel like it should be involved, somehow, in the matchmaking

how exactly, its difficult 😄

[plush ledge]

You don't want killing ai, prestige or bounty taken into account for a pvp rating. I know several guys on p 100 who are bad at the game and mainly farm ai, you don't want to be matched against good players when you just killed ai for 2k hours, you would get destroyed

[pure quest]

quickplay is for that.

I would enjoy 30 min max for regular bounty mode though, should be long enough. Or perhaps 20 min per bounty. So single boutny = 20 min, double bounty map = 40 min 😄

nobody is suggesting that though, that'd be terrible 😄

[plush ledge]

It sounded like it when you said you want bounty extract taken into account

[pure quest]

my suggestion is bounty being an exp/elo multiplier. So if you have kills and bounty, you get a bit of bonus gains.
If you get jsut bounty and extract. notthing happens as there are no kills to multiply.
Extended for this, same for experience. You get some exp from killing AI, but less then you do now. But an exp multiplier when you extract with the bounty. So bounty is the way to get your perks.

[steady vapor]

I heavily disagree that quickplay does this, It has the same problems as bounty hunt. It does not allow reliable easy access to practice the gunplay, you still often end up running all the way across the map to maybe look for a camper inside a building. A smaller mode would be completely different, not the same dynamic. Digest 1-3 compounds at a time.

[oak quartz]

Then i would propose a different way of stat tracking: Weapon accuracy, usage, and headshot percentage.

It would sum up for all weapons and if you have X percentage you move up in the rankings and are pitted against people with similar stats to yours

[pure quest]

but does the mandatory emptying your clip at extraction count for the accuracy? 😄

or full fanning a chain pistol into a meathead

[oak quartz]

Basically you're a god with Winnie but never ever used a Mosin. Losing would have 0% and thus not count, but you'd be pitted against a player that predominantly uses Sparks and never anything else, that has similar accuracy with yours.

[oak quartz]

Good point

Acc only counts on players

But then again that system would be rather cruel

[pure quest]

I dunno how the tracking system works, but i cant see the game differentiate between shooting at a zombie or person

[oak quartz]

Yeah

[pure quest]

or shooting at a person who is being chased by a zombie

[oak quartz]

Exactly

Then rehash and go back to general accuracy ?

And yes, mandatory emptying would lead to loss of accuracy

[pure quest]

what about melees?

😄

[oak quartz]

Melee would only track kills

[steady vapor]

My shovel accuracy is god tier, make me 6 star

[oak quartz]

Then ud be pitted against a god tier sparks sniper

That never ever misses

:3

And that guy would be pitted against all weapons master

Dolch, Nitro

Mosin uppercut,

Etc

Perhaps even better

Accuracy with ai count

And player count

90% accurate with Winnie

80% AI and 10% Players

[pure quest]

I would love stat trackign per weapon/item though, but not in matchmaking

but i would like to see how effective i am with each gun, how many games used etc

[opaque reef]

ew. that would pretty much kill hunt for me.

[pure quest]

what? cant camp long enough? 😄

[opaque reef]

i'm not a camper, but im not a fast player by any means

my matches often last 30+ minutes. i take my time.

[pure quest]

my majority of games take about 20-30 minutes,

40 minutes should be more then enough for a double bounty game

[opaque reef]

there are plenty of other games that play faster.

[pure quest]

ok, and? 😄

40 minutes is still 25 minutes of camping, assuming you take 10 minutes of getting 3 clues and 5 minutes running to extract.

[oak quartz]

Recently my games have been in the 10-15 min department

I had a game where we hunted both bounties and it took only 30 min

With me going back and collecting weapons that i liked

[pure quest]

wasnt it during scrapbeak event the games went down to 45 min for a while? I've had 1 game where i couldnt make it out

[oak quartz]

... dude how the fk does that happen... ?

[pure quest]

poor aim 😄

or bushwookies

[oak quartz]

We literally had both bounties a compound apart and had a 6-7 min battle between all teams

Im sorry imma go with Birds here and say poor aim and bushwookieing too

[pure quest]

except killing? If you do everything right i'd assume you'd also hit enough to kill. You should run out of meds by then, unless its one of those situations with 3 supply carts around

[oak quartz]

There is simply no way that a fight lasts more than 10 min

I have done the scrap beak event

I had a guy push me with hand crossbow and crossbow explosive

Him knowing i have a Rival

Winnie still 1/2 taps

And there wasn't any regen shot

So there's no healing after 5 min

[pure quest]

'lots of rotating' probably means to teams running in circles, each team thinking they're one one giving chase 😄

regardless, pretty fun to have a 12 minute fight. But i dont think that happens often enough to require 1 hour game time for all games 😄

yeah perhaps. 30 min for single bounty and 45 for double bounty or seomthing seems fair enough to me

[plush ledge]

Anything past 20 minutes is a very long game for me and included some fight against camping guys in some form

[pure quest]

speed it up just a bit so that excessive camping is not thát worth it, but still very possible.
But if a team spawn next to the boss and immediatly kill it, speeds up the game a lot, and that happens a lot. Can skip the first 10 minutes of the game getting clues that way.

[plush ledge]

45 minutes was good back then, enough time for the ultra slow guys and at least 15 minutes less you need to wait for them to come out of their concertina fortress

I mean who needs 10 minutes for clues? In a average match you see a banish after 5-8 minutes into the game, after 3 minutes when they spawned on it

In 10 minutes you can run across the map, collect 3 clues and banish the boss

[pure quest]

yeah 10 minute is a generous amount of time to get clues

zig zag a bit gettign supply points, killing meatheads on the way etc

[opaque reef]

jesus, crytek needs to let me opt out of desalle. unoptimized garbage map is killing my fps.

[plush ledge]

That's what I'm preaching, give us opt in and out option for maps and time of days

[swift delta]

#game-ideas message
Maybe someone replied, but anyway. Bergmann–Bayard 1910/21 is, you know, 1910 year's modification of 1903 year's model. Hunt Showdown is 1895.

[pure quest]

wouldnt that limit the playerbase even more?

[opaque reef]

at this point who cares?

[pure quest]

the remaining playerbase? 😄

[opaque reef]

people who are stuck playing ways that aren't fun will just stop playing altogether

i despise night games. i can't see anything.

[pure quest]

i love nightgames, snipers cant see anything

and adds to my dragonbreath effect

[opaque reef]

i used to just quit, but now i just extract.

[opaque reef]

i play shotgun

still can't see shit

[pure quest]

then you shouldnt have an issue

or fix the lightning in your room/change settigns

[opaque reef]

dont fucking tell me how my eyes work

[plush ledge]

Do you see a difference between someone who leaves the mission and someone who deselects night? When you can opt out you get full night matches and the other guys are happy that they don't need to dodge those matches

[pure quest]

im not telling you how your eyes work, im saying you maybe should adjust the settings or room you're in

nightmare when its still daytime outside, yeah i aslo cant see shit

[opaque reef]

ive got nearly 2k hours you think i havent tried that?

christ

hurr durr fix yer gamma

[pure quest]

but, the whole point of night is that everyone has more trouble seeing shit, so everyone should have the same handicap?

[plush ledge]

Just hit leave mission when you do like the map simple as that

[opaque reef]

no because different people have different eyes and equipment

i cant see anything, just fucking muzzle flashes.

it's no fun and makes me want to quit altogether.

[plush ledge]

Dude with reshade I see 140m, without barely 70m at night

[opaque reef]

your hunter gets stuck in the last match.

[plush ledge]

No

Leave mission, cancel reconnect, OK to hunter is dead. Plot twist you keep your hunter

[opaque reef]

ill have to try that

cause fuck night games.

[pure quest]

i find fog games more annoying than the night ones

[opaque reef]

i don't care about fog, but i can also understand why someone who brought a scope would want to opt out.

[plush ledge]

I can't say for 1.8 but right now you don't lose your hunter when you do it while it says waiting for other players

[opaque reef]

but desalle... fuck me, my framerate drops into the 40's

i feel like im playing on an n64

[plush ledge]

A few times desalle in a row and I'm about to commit a crime

[opaque reef]

just unoptomized trash

[calm hawk]

ive had desalle 8 times in a row once

[plush ledge]

8 times desalle and dusk in a row get on my level horse

[opaque reef]

i wanted nothing but desalle when it first came out, but since then the game has gotten bloated and shitty. now it runs like ass.

[calm hawk]

i dont even remember the weather cus i left on spawn

[hot vigil]

Just asking bc I'm curious, what makes you leave a match just bc it is DeSalle?

I can understand weather and time of day

But map itself?

[opaque reef]

i haven't been leaving, but i want to because desalle runs really bad on my pc

[plush ledge]

Performance and mainly because desalle favors a very slow and campy playstyle. Just look how people play, matches on the old maps are way faster and you don't need to worry about some bush wanker every 10m. Or that they break los every 20m and crawl back into a bush

[hot vigil]

That is fair. I also personally dislike DeSalle bc it seems to favour long range a little more, but I keep telling myself that is just a notion.

[plush ledge]

Most of desalle feels like playing in the Alice forest

[opaque reef]

desalle is somehow both sniper town and ambush city at the same time.

i actually like the low routes for shotguns

[calm hawk]

too much ai and my teammate gets shit frames and stutters

[hot vigil]

It is fascinating bc Stillwater have the HUGE open spaces, but I guess that makes everything else the lanes where people walks.

[calm hawk]

i play with the same ppl all the time so i always leave

[opaque reef]

but then you get three cain's stacked on top of each other to form triplecain, hiding in a bush.

[calm hawk]

as a solo i leave beacuse too much ai for a solo player, it gets irritating and tedious

[opaque reef]

that's just hunt in general.

[calm hawk]

its worse in desalle

i just have frustrating moments there

[opaque reef]

i really wish they'd kill some of the sightlines on the old maps.

[hot vigil]

Never thought that DeSalle have more AI huh

[opaque reef]

way too many places to get caught out in the open

or just give me smoke bombs so i can create my own concealment.

[hot vigil]

Tbh it wasn't an issue before scopes.

[calm hawk]

nah you can easily avoid those

there are open sight lines but there are also safer alt routes

[opaque reef]

not always

there are some you just can't avoid.

[calm hawk]

Lawson has worse sight lines

north of windy for instance

thats a bad open area

[opaque reef]

plus you have people bitching about matches taking too long, so now i have to rotate for 5 minutes just to get some decent cover for pushing.

[hot vigil]

Don't mind the North of Windy Run, but I DO mind north/north west of Salter's Pork, that place is sucha oppressive barren field.

[calm hawk]

i have not died in open on stillwater in ages, not even when i played drunk

my problem with north of windy is that it discourages closing distance

which leads to more stalemates

[opaque reef]

i just want more cover.

i would never complain about long ammo bois if i just had the cover to get to them.

[hot vigil]

And for Stillwater, there is two bad fields that could use a little love:

• Area between Healing-Waters Church and Slaughterhouse, there is just a little spot where there is just too much open field.
• Area between Healing-Waters Church, Davant Ranch, same, just a little too much openness.

[opaque reef]

places like that are all over the maps

[pliant wren]

You know how we solved this in the real world? We made this stuff called camouflage that you wear so when you are in an open area without cover, you're not instantly recognizable.

[hot vigil]

I disagree, that is the only two places where I feel you can't really get to cover.

[pure quest]

then long ammo boys would complain there's too much cover

[hot vigil]

Good

[opaque reef]

how about between lawson and sweetbell?

or sweetbell towards prison?

[pure quest]

i think it's fine as it is. all compounds let you rotate and hide enough to have some cover

sweetbell to prison is fine, plenty bush/tree/mudhills, or go left of the railroad

[hot vigil]

Think Lawson to Sweetbell is fine, there is plenty of foliage and clutter (huge ass millwheel) to hide around.
I do agree coming from Nicholls to Sweetbell either gives you the options of: huge open bridge and huge open water.

They could add something to the river crossing at least.

[pure quest]

stay on the right/arden side of the railway bridge. easy crossing and then plenty cover

[hot vigil]

Easier crossing I agree. Just feel that the other side could use a little love too :b

[pliant wren]

I don't think the feel of the game should be sacrificed for cover. IRL there's plenty of places you could look at and say. "Well shit, I'd rather not be caught out here in a gunfight." There should be those places in game. Besides the feel, there should be some limitations to your ability to fall back or gunfights could go through the entire map.

[hot vigil]

I agree, hence I only really have two places that I feel needs a little touch up.

[pliant wren]

True, I was meaning more that the feel should be the guiding principal of the thing, like the large watery area northwest of lower Desalle, I wouldn't want them adding an entire sunken boat in the middle of it to block sightlines, but a slightly raised bit of dirt that splits the stream with a row of saplings on it would feel right, and the water is still there to hinder movement.

[pure quest]

I really hoped there would be underground bits in the new map, like some mining tunnels going from kingsnake to that place the machinery goes to

places which could be near pitch-black, unless you turn on the generators at the compounds. or bring your own flashliight 😄

[pliant wren]

I'd be down for that, or more sections of the map where there are narrow canyons you could slip into and be basically un-noticable if you weren't seen going in, but would also restrict your movement.

Someone once suggested a tunnel system that linked the area under Pitching and the crypts under Blanchett. That would be great, cause basically nobody goes down there unless there's a clue a little ways in.

[opaque reef]

slate in it's current state isn't worth $300

it got the big nerf because of slugs.

special ammo has pretty much fucked the balance in this game, and now a gun gets ruined in totality because it "can" be good.

@hoary depot all they have to do is make it so people can't choose which server they use. Just have the game choose whatever server has the best ping for them, or the best ping based on your duo/trio's average.

the problem isn't that there is occasionally someone from Oceana on NAE, it's that people can actively choose to be on a server that isn't their closest server, without a valid reason.

[pliant wren]

How would you know it's a valid reason? I used to pick a server two states away from me instead of the one in my state because some part of the routing made the close one actually have higher latency.

[vague patio]

better stability despite low ping, playing main hours somewhere else

[pliant wren]

(In another game, of course)

[plush ledge]

Past 8pm I couldn't play EU anymore then like I get 200+ ping from Germany to Germany and 60 ping to Russia. Only because some guys have high ping that don't mean they're not in their region

[pliant wren]

and having played alot of matches during the slowest hours of the day, I would say picking another server because there's nobody playing on the one you're closest to is a valid reason.

[hot vigil]

To be fair, just omit Slugs from the Slate, fixed.

[opaque reef]

it's not just the slate. the officer carbine and the crown got similar treatment due to special ammo.

[hot vigil]

Well, same solutions to these too, fixed!
I think I can go on all day with the special ammo :b

[opaque reef]

they now both have awful "fake" recoil because of the potential that slugs/hv give them

special ammo was a mistake tbh

[tribal wyvern]

But what he said would make that reason valid.
Unless i missunderstood the high latency/ping argument.

[opaque reef]

and yeah, i would be super happy with the slate in it's prior form sans slugs.

[hot vigil]

I think special ammo was a great concept, just approached from the wrong angle. They could have been a great equalizer between lesser guns and the more "meta pick" ones. Make the weaker shotguns have the slugs, give HV to guns that is generally lacking ect. ect.

Issue with special ammo is that there exist HV and Slugs, which for most weapons just makes it better with little to no downside.

[opaque reef]

i would rather they just make slugs different for each shotgun.

[hot vigil]

Why? Not every shotguns have every ammo type to begin with? Why should slugs be the only universal one?

[opaque reef]

or just go a different route with them entirely, like making it so they can only one tap at 3-5m but give them more headshot range

[opaque reef]

...that was my point? im not sure you read me right

basically make stuff like the romero with slugs have a really good OHK range, but stuff like the romero or crown only able to OHK out to like 10

oh wait, i think i see what you were saying

[hot vigil]

I think it is a little iffy solution as it can become unclear for a player what and what not they can do with different slugs then.
Ofc we have the stat page, so it ain't completely obfuscated, but still feel that is an unneeded complication for something that could be a more simpler solution.

[opaque reef]

slugs IRL are actually really common.

it would make sense that certain guns wouldn't like some ammo. finicky actions would make ammo like flechette/pennyshot more likely to jam.

but slugs are pretty universal to shotguns.

but they should perform differently per gun.

[hot vigil]

I'd rather just have some shotguns not coming with slugs especially the stronger ones. Like not every long ammo weapon comes with Spitzer, so why should every Shotgun come with slugs?

[opaque reef]

for balance reasons i would agree

[wispy snow]

Slugs just need a rework into being something else. Keeping them as is but restricting what guns they come on just pushes the guns they are on.

Slugs have bad internal balance more than anything.

[opaque reef]

at this point i agree.

[wispy snow]

Agree with this, that's my preferred solution.

[opaque reef]

i never thought they were all that impressive before tbh, but now with the crown having them, plus the new shotgun already getting ruined just because slugs -exist- has really soured me on them

watching all the tryhard meta chasers run around with slugs on test was cringe inducing. the slate felt GOOD with buckshot.

but no, "slugs make it too good so the whole thing has to suck"

[hot vigil]

I love the Slugs on the Romero, feels like a fair high risk, high reward option. Tho it boggles my mind you only get 6 slugs for $200, where the C&K gets like 15....

[opaque reef]

CK gets 11

but yeah

i feel you

[wispy snow]

Imo they're only really OP on the rival in terms of overall meta, but they cause so many balance problems for shotguns in and of themselves that I'd even be fine if crytek just removed them.

[pure quest]

only thing that really should be removed is explosive crossbow/nitro

[opaque reef]

yeah, mini nitro for $300

[pure quest]

anything else can be tweaked

[opaque reef]

explosive crossbow?

[pure quest]

maybe dumdum bullets for nitro

[wispy snow]

They've nerfed 2 shotguns overall now primarily because they refuse to acknowledge how dumb slugs are.

[pure quest]

yes, its a problem.

not on pc (while still stupid)

[opaque reef]

ah

personally i think pc and console should have entirely different balance

[hot vigil]

I love my explosive crossbow and I would say it is okay fair weapon (pc)

[opaque reef]

we really shouldn't be balancing for one and letting it effect the other.

[wispy snow]

Everyone but crytek agrees.

[pure quest]

it literally doesnt add anything other then being against the (i think) intended identity of the game, i.e. slow and careful aiming with lack of bullets

[opaque reef]

we've crossed that bridge.

[pure quest]

i've seen plenty games on pc as well with explosive crossbow teams. A trio of explosive crossbows will just aimpunch you to death

[opaque reef]

we hunt spamdown now

[pure quest]

yeah but at least with a bullet you need to hit the hunter

not the general vicinity

[pliant wren]

I feel if that were the intention the Bornheim and Dolch never would have been added.

[pure quest]

theyre not much of an issue though as people do actively have to aim, and the damage isnt that great (on bornheim anyway)

[opaque reef]

the compact ammo buff was a huge balance mistake.

[pure quest]

they dont have a lot of spare ammo by default either

[hot vigil]

Dunno about that, it requires some weapon knowledge (arch and range calculation) and have a slow reload.

[opaque reef]

compact being able to (somewhat) reliably two tap, and then giving people levering and dual wielding...?

bleh

[pliant wren]

That's a nerf they put on them after release because of player feedback. At release, they were both highly competitive weapons.

[opaque reef]

on pc, yeah, but on console, movement is so nerfed by controllers you can just lob shit at your opponent and kill them via attrition.

[hot vigil]

To be fair it is more levering and especially dual wielding that is the issue, compact ammo before the nerf was really awful.

[opaque reef]

i know, i'm just saying that we shouldn't have both.

[hot vigil]

Levering and Dual Wield should just be 4-7 point perks.

[wispy snow]

Damage is fine but I'd like to see what hunt looks like if you drop the rof of most guns.

[opaque reef]

like either spammable crap compact ammo, or good compact ammo but less spam.

[pliant wren]

I don't feel the intention of the devs is to make long ammo the pinnacle of play. It feels more like they intended to give a realistic feel to shooting cowboy guns.

[opaque reef]

you can fix dual wield right now by just giving them the same ROF as two pistols instead of 3

[wispy snow]

Right now the biggest problem with compact is fmj more than anything.

[hot vigil]

That too, just make them glorified extended mags.

[opaque reef]

sure, but long ammo can literally invalidate 2 of the 4 ammo types just by staying over 100m away

[pliant wren]

Yeah, and it's defeated by a bush, or a plank, or anything that breaks line of sight.

It's got obvious strengths, but also obvious weaknesses.

[hot vigil]

Since the Dolch hate days I've said it: All complaints about any weapon, is just a scapegoat for the Long Ammo problem.

[opaque reef]

dolch was actually bullshit tho.

no amount of "it's expensive so it's balanced" will ever make that ok.

[hot vigil]

Oh yes it was, but still a scapegoat none the less.

[pliant wren]

I still don't understand the Dolch hate. It's a medium ammo gun. Yeah, it's fast medium ammo, but so's the Spitfire, and unless you're trying to charge a guy in the open for more than 20 meters, it's definitely not an instant win.

[hot vigil]

Well, simply Dolch was before dualies, before spitfire, before bornheim.

So it was THE gun

And as many people (and I still too believe to this day) thought Hunt is about the slow fire combat where every shot counts.

I'm so dishearten that you rarely see people whipping out a Pax or a Nagant to do their follow up shots. Now we either go fast with spitfire/dolch/bornheim/officer or Uppercut.

[pliant wren]

Well, Winfield with Iron Repeater isn't that much slower than the officer. And basically any two tap gun necessitates a refire within 2 seconds or your target is just going to retreat to cover and heal. I guess I just don't see it, to me the only type of gun that every shot counts on are shotguns and long ammo rifles cause of ammo scarcity.

[hot vigil]

Winfield was also a large slot weapon (later became medium too), so it was natural it came with a little more power to it.

[pliant wren]

True. I just can't see careful placement of shots as the goal here when every streamer I see basically cracks off a shot within fractions of a second of seeing someone and then moves. Like they may not be just standing there spamming shots, but they are essentially firing them as fast as possible dictated by their playstyle.

[hot vigil]

Well, the game now provides the tools for it so, that is what they are doing.

[pliant wren]

But they're doing that with the sparks and the uppercut as well, those aren't fast refire guns.

[hot vigil]

Ah yeah, well, it is just them being good (bad??) at the game. Like every shot still counts, bc a miss gives an opening for the opponent to fireback.

[austere stone]

combat shovel?

NAH

Combat FRYING PAN

[stoic vapor]

the pansexuals would love that

[crystal plume]

@hasty birch The amounts are currently incorrect in the new UI window, they give the same amount as before in the old store window

[hasty birch]

so we get 1150, 3150, 5200, 7000 then?

[crystal plume]

Correct

[hasty birch]

alright, thanks!

[vague patio]

"4. Keep names to yourself in messages, clips, or screenshots when sharing content. Any form of naming and shaming or witch-hunting is prohibited. This includes tagging users, sharing their socials, revealing names in any way, shape, or form. Names that are replaced by unreadable characters such as squares are also subject to this rule. If you need to report a player for in-game actions, please do not share it here and open a ticket on http://huntshowdown.com/ (red button in the bottom right). Reporting Discord users can be done by messaging @muted zealot."

just report ingame,dont just post sceenshot of the person

[slender geyser]

UI changes don't happen "accidentally" - i guess this is the next step 4000 BB instead of 5200. After they reduced the BB gained while playing it's the next "logical step".

I think they just couldn't amend the steam processes fast enough in before. Let's see.

[slender geyser]

Yes i've seen it, thanks. But with all the price hikes in the recent months and testing the waters (1000BB officer skin, reducing BB earned while playing the bounty etc.) i was referring to the fact that i think the change will be reverted/fixed for now but it will be back soon exactly as the UI was showing.

[wind stream]

I dont know "(and will not be changing)" seems pretty clear to me

[slender geyser]

Yeah i hope so 🙂

[cold dune]

single slot medium ammo gun with duelies RoF and 80% of the capacity but you can use its sights

[tribal wyvern]

@surreal python @tacit rampart
Feedback is not for reporting bugs.
use "Bug-reports-live-pc"

[jovial flint]

@lament pollen
Something like your suggestion
There’s a French breechloader conversion rifle called the Tabatiere rifle that shoots an 18 mm slug but also has been converted to 12 gauge too

I’d vouch for your idea 💡

[surreal python]

yep

[jovial flint]

@lament pollen And a Snider-Enfield Riposte would be sweet

[frosty garnet]

@gray surge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

suggestive idea...get better servers```

[opaque reef]

Plus the dolch used to have more range, less recoil and no artificial sway. At short-medium range, even assuming you got the first shot, if you didn't kill the dolch user in a single shot you were dead 90% of the time, because they could squeeze off 4-5 rounds faster than most guns got their second. unless the dolch user completely potato'd you only got one shot.

[unborn smelt]

not in Top ELO - the devs actually said that according to data in top Elo the dolch wasn't that much more lethal

and it was too expensive to be an actual issue in lower ELO

So as the devs said it really only mattered by letting somewhat but not quite high ELo players punch above their weight class

[maiden pelican]

Probably just the art guy being told "this is the 7000 bundle, this is the 5000 bundle etc.

[maiden pelican]

He didn't mention elo

It was more of an issue when it showed up seems to be his point?

[opaque reef]

In top elo players are much more conscious of cover, and way more fights are over in one shot, so yeah, I could see the dolch not being as valuable, but make no mistake, no matter how much data you throw at it, the dolch always felt, to me at least, unbalanced, unfair and unfun to fight against.

[unborn smelt]

afaik they said, in the same stream they also gave us the other info that for the highly skilled players it isn't particularly deadly in the stats

[maiden pelican]

I thought they just said it was picked most frequently at high 5 until just before 6 star

[unborn smelt]

I mean that's fair.
However one thing to note - it felt unbalanced

[maiden pelican]

Could be balanced now though

[unborn smelt]

that doesn't mean it actually was. Because i agree with saying the Dolch felt abysmally bad to play against

[maiden pelican]

Wish the new guns and old guns got moved up a little bit

[unborn smelt]

And that's why i think a change (not necesarily nerf) was absolutely needed

[azure basin]

You cannot see Llorona's Heir skirt in 1st person view if you look at your legs, even after she supposedly got a 1st person rework.

[unborn smelt]

but especially when they added the caldwell 92 in it's first iteration, imo the hypocracy around the Dolch became very apparent.
That thing was essentially a slightly less powerful dolch with acess to special ammo while not being reduced to only special ammo

[frosty garnet]

@azure basin, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

You cannot see Llorona's Heir skirt in 1st person view if you look at your legs, even after she supposedly got a 1st person rework.```

[maiden pelican]

You can see plague doctors apron, its annoying as hell

[maiden pelican]

Its first iteration was good, I wish they nerfed it slightly and buffed the other pistols

DA revolvers should be balanced differently than semi auto pistols

Instead they feel basically identical shooting wise

[azure basin]

Title: 1st person rework Details: You cannot see Llorona's Heir skirt in 1st person view if you look at your legs, even after she supposedly got a 1st person rework.

[unborn smelt]

Like it still does hit nearly like a Dolch at compact base ammo, and likely way harder on range with fmj. It has very good RoF at over 100 Rpm, it doesn't have a particularly big mag, but it's fast-ish to reload and it does reload faster than most other revolvers. it had nearly as much reserve alone as the Dolch total ammo.
And all that while being exceptionally cheap.

Now - this doesn't mean i think it is OP, but a gun that close to the dolchs performance being okay while the dolch is often still called the best handgun in Hunt and by some even still OP, IMO shows a very clear bias / hippocracy.

[maiden pelican]

@eager widget Hell, every special ammo of the same type is the same price no matter the gun, but at least they are sperate pools.

So that would be a good change, easily handwaved by saying its smokeless for one gun but not another

[half stag]

its cuz a. the medium ammo drop off and b. the muzzle velocity is my guess for why it hasn't been as ree'ed on

[maiden pelican]

And different chamber lengths or gauges for the shotgun shekls

[unborn smelt]

I mean Dolch always had medium ammo dropoff too

[maiden pelican]

Medium pistol dropoff isn't much different

Both start at 20 meters

[unborn smelt]

and no FMJ to significantly increse its range potential

[maiden pelican]

I think it would have been powerful, should never have been cheaper than the officer though

[half stag]

and speaking of that, they should really change slugs to be different for each shotgun rather than just every slug is the exact same

[maiden pelican]

And I hate the paring down of compact ammo spare

[half stag]

your daily reminder of 1.4.1 dual wielding ammo reserve nerf

xd

[eager widget]

🤔 Are people discussing on my post?

[unborn smelt]

IF, big if, the dolch is worth 750$ as people claim it is - the caldwell 92 should in no way have cost under 300$, propably even more expensive

[maiden pelican]

Dualies should get just an extra mag, rather than doubled ammo

I remember when the SA nagants had 35 spare

Maybe don't put them that high up again

[unborn smelt]

That's not me saying it should cost as much - just saying, IMO this gun made the bias against the Dolch (which it earned itself rightfully) very apparent

[maiden pelican]

To me it would be like $225

The thing is the dolch shouldn't really be that expensive any more but it is good that it is overpriced

Discord is a bit laggy today

[maiden pelican]

I was sorta

But special ammo shouldn't cause the balancing of s gun to change

[eager widget]

Precisely

[half stag]

Now I would love for crytek to be smart this time, but considering how 1.8 is pushed onto live rn, probably going to be a year or never for when they confront the special ammo problem killing the viability of other ammo types except for the one that was op

[unborn smelt]

I kind of agree, but i also don't hate that it was essentially non existence sincethe nerf for me

[maiden pelican]

They could easily add/remove special ammo on guns

[maiden pelican]

Exactly

[dim heron]

Buff dolch

[maiden pelican]

If the dolch didn't exist it would be interesting to see how every other pistol changes

Honestly the dolch just is a shield for the uppercut

[unborn smelt]

while i'm not a fan of the double standard for Dolch and other guns - I do also absolutely hate that gun from way back when it was medium ammo and actually OP

[wispy snow]

It's been a year, it ain't happening I don't think.

[maiden pelican]

20 spare, then 5 dpare

[wispy snow]

Crytek has only doubled down on special ammo.

[maiden pelican]

Then they nerfed the vetterlis spare simply because it existed in the same ammo type

[maiden pelican]

FULL METAL JACKET MOTHERFUCKER

Like every shotgun having slugs

Soon every gun will have FMJ

Dolch FMJ

Uppercut FMJ

[half stag]

I would be fine, if they actually put in some effort into adjusting their strengths and actually have some differences for ammo types (ie slugs)

but they don't so . . .

[maiden pelican]

Slugs should have less than base spare.

[unborn smelt]

I mean they had diffrent slug performance for diffrent shotguns

[half stag]

instead they just nerf the entire gun cuz of one ammo type xd

[half stag]

I remember

[unborn smelt]

but they eventually decided to part way with that idea

[maiden pelican]

Did they?

[half stag]

yea . . . prob not a good idea

[half stag]

it was on test

for like a week?

[maiden pelican]

Slugs are unique among custom ammo though

[wispy snow]

Special ammo doesn't have skins, no microtransactions, if crytek were smart they'd just disable the ones that are a problem until they actually get fixed.

[half stag]

I meant that the performance is the same across the board between shotguns (ie all full length shotguns have the same slug stats, all handcannon shotguns have the same stats etc)

would be nice if their was some differentiation in stats so slug selection doesn't boil down to fire rate and magazine capacity\

there*

[maiden pelican]

Yeah, I just meant balancing concern wise

[wispy snow]

The core problem is special ammo leaving little room for weapons to be useful, it cannibalizes the design space however it manifests.

Fmj and slugs are the same problem manifesting different ways.

[queen jungle]

@narrow narwhal Please refrain from re-posting suggestions that you have previously made.

[opaque reef]

That's how they started. All slugs having different stats I mean

[narrow narwhal]

https://tenor.com/view/alrighty-then-jim-carrey-ace-ventura-gif-20187128

[opaque reef]

Honestly I would be happy with fewer guns having slugs/hv, but that ship has sailed.

[maiden pelican]

HV ammo hasn't changed, but it's no longer complained about

[maiden pelican]

They could easily make slugs and HV come with less spare, kinda like explosive ammo

Explosive is arguably worse as well

[maiden pelican]

Posted a suggestion similar

[wispy snow]

Honestly not opposed to the idea, but ammo stacking is still possible.

It'd be annoying running into these ammos still but being more annoying to use would curb the amount you see it them.

[maiden pelican]

Still, reduced ammo on say all slugs or HV woild reduce it as a problem

[wispy snow]

Half you think?

[maiden pelican]

Not for every gun

[queen jungle]

Is HV even really a problem?

[maiden pelican]

People don't complain about it anymore but it hasn't changed

[queen jungle]

I honestly don't remember the last time I died to someone using HV

[maiden pelican]

For slugs probably 2 less spare, depends on the gun

[queen jungle]

I honestly don't remember dying to winfields all that often either

[maiden pelican]

Probably because of all the FMJ changes overshadowing HV

[queen jungle]

If you think that fmj has overshadowed HV, don't you think fmj reserves should be lowered as well?

[maiden pelican]

Yeah, that was in my suggestion

[queen jungle]

Ah ok

[maiden pelican]

Unless I fucked up

[wispy snow]

Meta? Not really, sort of. Winnie HV remains very strong but it's slept on. Internal balance for HV is a big problem. Centennial was gutted from the get go by HV and is only mildly relevant because of an even more OP ammo.

[maiden pelican]

HV is probably on of the less aggregious

[wispy snow]

HV is mostly a winnie/ vetterli problem

[maiden pelican]

Centennial was gutted because it had 600 M/S velocity base

But for example FMJ on the conversions could go down to 15 or 12 spare, slugs on the rival would go down to 6 or 4

Or wait, does the rival have reduced slug ammo already?

[wispy snow]

Nope.

Rival just has weirdly low ammo by default.

[maiden pelican]

Yeah I have been asking for rival having more spare for a while

[queen jungle]

Rival has 3 shells less in total vs the romero, so it's not drastically different?

[burnt mulch]

it chews through ammo much faster, so if you think of it as "number of full reloads" it's really shit. (of course, single shot guns get a shitton of "full reloads" and it falls apart most other guns only get 2 "full reloads" but still)

[maiden pelican]

What potato said, and restock is based off of spare, rather than total

So you can get 4 shells with a romero, but only 1 or 2 with the rival

[opaque reef]

Kinda disagree. If the nitro had good sights it would be the most meta gun in the game even with only 6 shots. Small ammo pool is little more than an inconvenience to good players. What matters is winning the initial fight, and ammo reserve doesn't really effect that.

[maiden pelican]

It prevents fmj spam at the very least

[opaque reef]

I can maybe see it mattering for fmj spam

[maiden pelican]

But it certainly wouldn't make things worse

[dim mortar]

Crytek your Cain change is still absolute shit

you still can't see him

fucken make his skulls bright white

[opaque reef]

But for slugs, not really. People still consider the rival the best slug gun in the game and it has the smallest ammo pool of any shotgun

[dim mortar]

you added some faded white paint to him, you still can't see him

[maiden pelican]

Still it would makethwm slightly less of a problem

[dim mortar]

what kind of crap Cain change is this

[queen jungle]

I wouldn't necessarily call it the best slug shotgun, but the most bang for your buck

Imo

[maiden pelican]

I always said cain should be covered in red blood, not white dabbling

[opaque reef]

The only real contender is the crown, but that has the gross fake sway on it. For those that can deal with the sway and don't care that it's $800, sure it might be a better gun, but the rival is the 2-tap slug king.

If guns had different slug stats then you could argue maybe Romero or specter, but they all kill at 15m regardless, so it all comes down to fire rate. Cost is only really a factor if you struggle with money.

[opaque reef]

I don't understand crytek balancing at all.
Slate is slightly overtuned? Three big nerfs, right into the dirt.
Cain is impossible to see and literally one of the most hated additions to the game? He's slightly pinkish now.

[wispy snow]

I guess my concern is crytek going "mission accomplished" and not doing anything further. It'd make things slightly better, but not solve the problem.

[opaque reef]

The centennial for example.

"We made it cheaper guys, so now you pay less for a gun that's still trash"

[wispy snow]

Nerfing ammo amount on explosive makes sense because it's meant to be a utility ammo, not necessarily meant to be a pvp damage ammo, and it was something that only really appeared on single shot weapons (meaning you get another ammo with it). That lets people dabble in it without getting to rely on it.

IMO that's how slugs should be, but that requires a rework of their core identity, because as it stands they are just pvp direct damage, and if it's too good at that, the amount of ammo you had will never matter to the first person or two that you kill with it.

[opaque reef]

They really should be something other than "better buckshot"

[burnt mulch]

slugs need a real downside besides "can't hipfire". like.. it's natural to ADS for accurate shots.

[opaque reef]

Less ammo and less ohk.

3-5m max for ohk to center mass, but push headshot out to 50-80

Buckshot should dominate slugs at close range.

Not vice versa

The whole point of slugs is that you're turning your shotgun into a poor man's rifle.

[restive dove]

Something with 600 velocity isn’t trash lmao

[wispy snow]

IMO, fix slugs in a few easy steps: Reduce 1 hit kill range to roughly 5-6m, also reduce 2 tap range very slightly, increase headshot range to 50m or so, buff caldwell rival to have 10 spare instead of 8, let caldwell rival swap between 2 ammo types like the romero.

[wispy snow]

Lots of better guns have that velocity with better stats in other areas.

[restive dove]

All the guns that cost 400+

[wispy snow]

Winnie C with HV and vetterli with HV would like a word with you.

[opaque reef]

Vetterli with hv

[restive dove]

Paying 150 for 600 velocity isn’t bad to some people

[wispy snow]

Good thing you can pay even less and get a gun with a similar damage curve, but way more ammo and ROF.

[opaque reef]

If you like it that's fine, but the centennial is objectively not good

[wispy snow]

If HV didn't exist centennial would have a place, but HV exists.

[opaque reef]

If they can make it so flechette can't ohk without a headshot, they can make slugs ohk less than 5m

[wispy snow]

I'm just thinking 5-6m is still really damn short and leaves room for handcannon slugs to basically be melee.

If full size slugs are already <5m, then handcannon slugs have little room to operate.

[opaque reef]

5-6 would be fine if it was explicitly upper torso only.

[wispy snow]

OH yeah, absolutely, upper torso only. Gut shots need a barrel stuff.

[opaque reef]

Like exactly 150 to upper, no kill anywhere else even with shorter range

[wispy snow]

Sure, the gut shot possibility can change based on how good they are.

Idea is very short one shot capability, because you'd mostly take slugs as a ranged ammo to swap to on rival/romero.

Cause really the rival should have ammo swapping.

[opaque reef]

True

I could see them having damage falloff similar to long ammo, but with a much lower multiplier.

So like only 2x headshot multi.

Carries damage reasonably far, but takes a huge nosedive after 80 or so

[fathom vault]

why do we keep changing the filters and the order of items in the inventory menu randomly every patch... just why? Also there is no click sound on the filter menu anymore that I feel like was there before and it bothers me. /Rant

[frosty garnet]

@fleet glacier, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Any idea what traitor's moon is?```

[late wind]

I think it's probably a console specific issue, but teaming really needs to be addressed. 2v4+ blows.

[frosty garnet]

@mental temple, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

More Female Recruits would be appreciated. Like...```

@mental temple, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

More Female Recruits would be appreciated! Like... A Female Redneck that's thick with pigtails and tattered dress, named "Betsy Bayou" 😁  Or a Bee Charmer, or a Medicine Women!```

[coarse geyser]

has there even been a feature added to the game that was suggested on this server first?

[flint cargo]

is Crytek ever gonna fix the ping and packet loss problem

[little fulcrum]

Stop making DLC with long capes if you aren't going to prioritize fixing them clipping through the ground first. 🤡 🤡 🤡

[sharp arrow]

Silenced Vetterli

But it could be argued that it was something they already considered.

[verbal flame]

They first need to fix dual. The RNG accuracy is way to high like how is it noraml that he shots 20 ammo at you and the only one that hit you is a headshot. Plz do a real nerf

[late wind]

They already nerfed dualies. They said so!!1!

An actual nerf would create such a tremendous ree that it would shatter the eardrums of any and all.

[opaque reef]

they could fix dualies right now by giving them the proper fire rate of 2x pistols instead of 3x

[late wind]

I despise having to fundamentally change my playstyle because people roll in teams of four or more.

God save me the game is stagnant and boring now. Everybody is running an uppercut and frags, the Reptillian, Felis, and all other dark cloaked hunters.

If I wanted to fight swathes of identical enemies with identical armaments I'd play a campaign.

[coarse geyser]

i dont even have the uppercut or frags unlocked 90% of the time

[opaque reef]

I don't use any of those skins or run frags, but I do use an uppercut. Mostly cause it's the only gun that really works with a shotgun.

[rugged crest]

As someone who loves this game and plays on a daily basis, I am very unhappy with this recent update. I've noticed a couple of things that just make the game annoying to play. 1. When creating a loadout, it no longer auto excludes guns that can't fit in the slot left. I can now choose a large weapon and still have to scroll through every other large or medium weapon to find the small weapon I'm looking for. While I can use the filters to exclude the medium and large weapons for my second choice, this was a very much un-needed and annoying change. 2. When opening the map, any horizontal spin stays at whatever speed the map was opened at. Coming from someone that opens their map quite often, this is rather annoying. I initially thought that I was getting mouse drift somehow and it wasn't making sense. I figured out what was going on after a few tries and could spin at Mach 10 and as long as I didn't touch my mouse it would do this indefinitely when the map was closed. I don't really was to be walking in a certain direction and open my map to then be walking in a different direction because my mouse wasn't perfectly still. There were one or two other random things that were changed or broken that I don't remember at this moment now that I have stopped playing for the day, but I will most likely notice them again tomorrow when I play and can add them in a second comment tomorrow. The only good thing I've noticed is the FPS increase back to what it was when I first started playing the game. With my hardware and settings I was initially getting a constant 144 FPS, but after an update a little bit back it dropped down to an average 120 FPS. This update has taken me back up to 144(with a few hiccups) with the exact same settings that I have kept the whole time.

[vague patio]

@torn cliff thats just straight up misinformation

high ping doesn't cause worse server performance or some sort of hit box lag

[torn cliff]

you don't understand how desync works?

[vague patio]

desync is server and client not agreeing which position you exactly

hence desync

cause they arent synchronized

[torn cliff]

yes, which leads to hitboxes being in a different location than what you see

rubber banding is terrible for PvP dude.

[wraith pecan]

A large number of changes to the skill names in simplified Chinese, greatly increasing the difficulty of communication between players.
I just played the game, often people say "连珠炮" the name of the skill, but I can not understand, until later someone clearly told the skill is now the name of "单动速射大师", but many veteran players still like to use "连珠炮".
This situation is now very common. Instead of making the skill names pretty, it greatly increases the difficulty of communication between players.
The translation of the map has also degenerated. It used to be all translated, but now it has degenerated back to semi-translation.
Whether it's good or bad, we always want to use the previous translation because we're used to it. If the translation needs to be changed, it should be a functional translation, not just something you want to change.
What do we mean by functional translation? For example, fixing a very obvious mistake, or add long and medium descriptions to the skills that target sniper scopes.

[vague patio]

which is untrue by how hunt handles that

you always see server side and server side hitbox

and dont call me dude

[frosty garnet]

@rustic quiver, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Can we get killcams instead of kill area. once your full team is dead you should be able to see exactly how you died```

[rustic quiver]

great stuff, make me wait 7 minutes to re post because i didnt add TITLE AND DESCRIPTION. so fucking stupid, not long ago i got a ban for exposing a cheater, so can i ask do people who post videos up of cheaters get banned for exposing?

[torn cliff]

hunt's latency prediction system isn't foolproof.

[rustic quiver]

try a jump shot and the hit detection goes out the window too

[torn cliff]

according to her it doesn't, but I believe it does a lot.

[rustic quiver]

unless ur boots are firmly on the ground u wont hit anything

[torn cliff]

yeah, it's the prediction system they use

[wind stream]

but they dont use a prediction system, they use client side hit registration with server side validation

[rustic quiver]

ive never had an issue with hit reg if im not jumping tho so i just dont jump shot lol

[vague patio]

jumping makes your shots completly inaccurate

[rustic quiver]

sucks tho because its not like u can take a shot mid air while say u are dropping on somebody. u have to land infront of them then take the shot

[rustic quiver]

even when u can clearly see it would have hit, even point blank when u drop on people

[wind stream]

do yo have a clip of that?

[rustic quiver]

most likely ive got loads of clips

[wind stream]

well if you have clips of bad hitreg you should post them

[rustic quiver]

like i say tho its only when ur midair

i figured it was kinda meant to be like that

[wind stream]

jump shots being inaccurate is meant to be
shots that hit not registering is not

[rustic quiver]

i dont really find it a big issue like as i just dont do it. probably making the decision to not do it has saved me more times than id of got the kill haha

[wind stream]

but without seeing the clips I cant tell you which one it is in your case

[rustic quiver]

i was just commenting on what corey was saying

[rustic quiver]

i get you ill try find one, if i dont have one ill get one