feedback-discussion

[karmic ivy]

I would not. But you seem to underestimate the desire of game companies to "do their own work". The answer they gave was "nah" right now and maybe "yea" later. Why does that answer not work for you?

But why does that answer not work for you?

you said you wanted them to say yea or nah

and they did (say nah, and maybe yah later)

then why say "all I want is for them to say yea or nah"

[karmic ivy]

.

[pseudo shadow]

This is not how balance works. And is again, beside the point.

But i will gladly explain how that statement might be wrong also.

If winnig is usually a way to determine who is the most skilled, you have to make sure there is a set of reasonable skills that you can check in the participants of said game in order to make it fun for most people and people that like to improve themselves in particular, wich is a healthy trait in anyone.

If we dumb a game down enough, maybe if we coss a coin for example, the chances of either of us winning is roughly 50%. Sure, it might be fun to settle unimportant arguments like this, or determine who goes first in some other game, or chose a food we gonna eat today like this. But we will likely never coss said coin a thousand times, counting our wins for the sake of fun. And even if we do, its probably because were bored as fuck.

We could up the stakes and make the winner of this boring game get something for winning. Something important like money. Now its called gambling and fun for some people again. And even they invented more complex rules and variety of games with different aspects and even strategies you could try to get better at for something that esentially is just a repeated coin toss.

Lets get back to videogames : what happens if a character in a fighting game gets too strong?

Contestant A mastered a complex character with complex combos and put thousands of hours of practice in that character.

Contestant B plays a character that wins no matter what esentially by just pressing "attack" over and over.
And he does win in the end.

Now here is the question? Wich one of those has more Fun?
While this is very debatable, A wouldve had alot more Fun if Bs character was beatable with reasonable effort or if he played a mirror match.

This is where balancing games comes in. And where we come back to your argument.

Ofcourse this situation is far more complex then the one i described, but deep down its really the same thing.

After countless matches I made an observation of a certain tactic/playstyle. I came to realize, Its the optimal one. I cant change anything about it to make it better in certain situations. That happens ALOT in Hunt. And you even agreed at some point in our discussion.
We are talking about camping here.

If i have a shotgun and im inside the boss lair, anything else then camping somewhere inside, is going to minimize my chances of winning. Even just peeking the windows is an unwanted risk.
If im camping outside with a sniper, the same thing applies -> waiting is the optimal move.
If we both have shotguns, the person camping knows where i have to come from in order for me to see him, while i have no idea where he could be. Again,  camping myself is optimal.

Is see this issue not as some lifestyle problem i see in others, but as a balance problem. It forces players that want to win, play a boring strategy.
Like it or not.

And im not "trying to rig the game to my liking" so that i can win more easily with whatever im doing right now. im trying to give ideas on how to optimize it. So that its more Fun for everyone.
I dont want to master the art of camping or camping even harder to counter the campers. And my question  is, do you?

If not were on the same page.

Hunt forces you into stalemates all the time, IF both parties try to win. Once one of the parties grow bored of waiting they finally commit to something unoptimal, putting themselves into a disadvatage, because theyre tired of waiting, or also likely : have less time in their life to waste on outwaiting others in some videogame.

My solution to this problem is cutting down the match time, making winnig not the only objective, but also winnig fast.
Of course there might be alot of tinkering needed to find the sweetspot of making people actually commit to something unoptimal because the time is running out, and still enable more carefull approaches.

Campers are lucky because people are pressured into doing the very thing they want them to do.

Anyone else is happy because campers will think twice if they want to potentially sacrafice their win for an easy kill.

But most importantly : it rises the stakes for everyone and cuts the unnececary downtime that inevitably happens all the time in hunt, due to stalemates.

And to finally settle with my argument :

Hunt is NOT a sandbox game. It has a clear objective, and provides many unique ways to achieve that goal in many ways. One just happens to be much better then all the others right now. Matches ARE always the same : find clues, kill boss, extract. The random encounters with other players is the only unique thing about it. Wich is exactly the same thing that happens in all the other battle royale games. And theyre also not sandbox games.

A true sandbox game is one, that might have a set objective, but lets you set whatever other objective. In hunt, there really is just the boss bounty. I get bored too from time to time and try to go for kills or both. Those are ALL the different objectives i can think of. And they all are esentially the same thing, really.

Unless you think killing grunts, or exploring this small map i can already picture perfectly in my memories, or do weeklies or daylies or whatever is a good objective, hunt just isnt a sandbox game, because you can chose a strategy. By that logic any game is a sandbox game. And to some extent, this might be even true. But in that case, it boils down to what i wrote in the beginning again. So whatever.

Sry for the spelling mistakes, im on my phone.

This whole argument is esentially just us in a literal sandbox, having a contest over who can build the coolest castle, one person is mad because his spot in the sandbox is dry, making it painfull to win, while in the corner there is someone eating the dry sand, complaining that we cant wet it, because then he wont eat it.

[hot vigil]

@pseudo shadow very insightful and I agree, there is many times where Hunt can make me say: "I could play to have fun and I can play to win"

Ofc it doesn't mean that bad plays should be equally viable as good play. Just that certain loadouts and tactics is heavily favourable compared to others.

[atomic cipher]

Damn that must be the longest reply I've seen in here I agree on shortening match length btw

[noble harbor]

what an absolute writing all that on your phone

[pallid idol]

Agreed with J

[rocky orchid]

@sick anvil i could not agree more on your feedback.. the UI needs a rework .. and this should have priority

[clever prawn]

@red atlas you can skip the intro by clicking enter multiple times!

[unborn smelt]

Let me star by saying, dayum that's a long response, but i appreciate it.

It's not about "dumbing the game down to a roughly equal winrate", you compare it to a coin toss, however a coin toss is not a way of determining skill usually, and as such it's an unfitting comparison. The fighting game analogy is way better, however here's where we arrive at our first issue, you compare it to a too strong character, but when is it too strong or is it just strong/Meta ? A game will almost never be perfectly balanced because the ends up boring. So balancing tries to achieve an engaging form of imbalance where Meta strategies and counters to the Meta exist.
So what makes or breaks your argument is, "is camping OP, or just one of the strong tactics ?" and which form of camping do we talk about ?
And I don't think camping is OP in general, camping outside the lair is propably the strongest tactic in Hunt (because you maintain space to maneuver, you have access to more resources, and when the time stars getting dangerously low you got the way higher chances to win) in return that makes camping inside one of the weakest strats posiible, because the game timer will ultimately force you to take a very uphill battle, leaving your fortified position to take your CQC loadout into wide open space or die to the timer.
That's the reason I and many others think your assessment of camping inside with a shotgun being the optimal strategy is not just a, it is the logical fallacy in the discussion. Camping inside is never, by game design, the optimal strategy for a shotgun, it's a shortsighted mistake.

"Once one of the parties grow bored of waiting they finally commit to something unoptimal" - The issue is that won't change the issue with a shorter match timer, because it's still both parties waiting until one is forced to move, this time not boredom but the timer.

So you're not making it fairer nor more engaging - you just punish the people inside because you like their camping the least - and that's my main issue with this logic, it's flawed at best and selfrighteus at worst.

And if we look at the fact's campers aren't and i quote "[...] lucky because people are pressured into doing the very thing they want them to do. " the game design itself eventually forces shotgun campers into doing the one thing that's worst for them, pushing out into another team of waiting campers.

[pseudo shadow]

Coin toss analogy was to prove the point, that game need substance. I started from 0 for you. And you agree with what i was trying to say with that but somehow its an "unfitting comparison".

You read through what i have to say, but you dont understand. Sadly.

[unborn smelt]

As For Hunt being a sandbox game - It's not a pure sandbox game - yes but huge parts of it are a sandbox game, as they don't force you to take a predefined approach you are instead encouraged to use all it's various tools, in your own tactic to achieve the goal.

[unborn smelt]

Well what is fun to whom is very subjective - many people in here that argued against you enjoyed having the time and resources to use their own ways of dealing with the situation.
In your coin toss analogy you compare it to something that's largely un fun - however people in here told you to them it is indeed fun the way bounty hunt plays

So i do very much understand - i just disagree with the sentiment that the way hunt plays is unfun because people can camp

[pseudo shadow]

But to answer your questions :

An engaging form of imbalance still means your total winrate against all the other playstyles / characters / weapons / whatever is roughly 50%. If you have a winrate with a specific character/weapon/strat/whatever in that case, either across all, or in specific ranges of skill, that is much higher, its op in that case.

I defined my "strong character" as unbeatable no matter what you do, unless its a mirror match.
Again to make it easy for you. And you misunderstood again.

But luckily i understand your point about not beeing able to define "strong tactic" in any meaningfull way, because right now i cant really tell you if a "tactic" can even be "op" myself.

I do understand that you can get forced to do something boring in order to win tho. And it happens. All the time. (Im repeating myself).

[sick anvil]

Right now its not UI its UX and it has to go back to UI

[pseudo shadow]

And you described perfectly what a timer running low would do. People would fight uphill battles. Youre a genius. This idea couldve been mine!

[unborn smelt]

Well no - you don't try and aim for 50% winrate. Perfectly balanced games are un fun

[pseudo shadow]

Oh wait ...

[unborn smelt]

rock paper scissors is close to if not perfectly balanced - yet we don#t see that in E-sports

[sick anvil]

you aim for 10000% win rate and settle at 60%

basic of bussines

[pseudo shadow]

Luckily there are none :) and hunt is far from it. And a forced 50% no matter what is not the goal of balancing, as we both already agreed upon.

[unborn smelt]

What balance is going for in games is a back and fort of strategies that counter each other

So if you have a character in a fighting game with a high play/winrate or a dominant tactic the way to deal with it is give players more ways to counter that tactic.
apply that to hunt and you'd need to find a way to encourage a more active playstyle (not try and enforce however)

[pseudo shadow]

Also a point i already made in my response to you. Its the coin toss.

[unborn smelt]

yes i know - but i think the answer you deduct from it is wrong

not your basic way of thinking

shortening the match timer - benefits the already strongest tactic, which is the one of camping outside the lair with ranged focused weapons

if you think one needs to nerf the OP camping - them make the ones on the outside push inside once the timer runs out

[sick anvil]

Simple solution some compounds need rework

[pseudo shadow]

That is also wrong tho. And not what im saying.

[unborn smelt]

(Now i ofc wouldn't want that either - because it also won't stop camping)

[sick anvil]

like Healing water church got reworked adding more points of entry

Blanchet graves , Still water , need more points of entry

[hot vigil]

Feel there is some flaws to "people find it fun therefore it is valid" setup here. Fun is two-way road, that is why devs often talking about "healthy gameplay" in their games, sure nuking an enemy for tons of damage with a single skill in moba is fun, but if the enemy doesn't have (or even sometimes doesn't feel) there ain't no counterplay to that, than that skill or gameplan should be re-vised to see if there is a way that both parties is having fun with the interaction.

[unborn smelt]

generally i'd agree - but we know that people are still to scared to make a move

[hot vigil]

Chapel of Madam Noir still wonder how that missed that overhaul.

[unborn smelt]

Oh i absolutely agree - i just don't agree that it's decreasing the match timer

[sick anvil]

instead of timer , we need an XXXXL constantina mine that you need 20 minutes to break trough , so if some one is camping a boss building that is hard to push you lock them in and leave

punish the booring people

[hot vigil]

Could see it work a little, tho it is kinda scapegoating the issue bc it just limit the time that tactic can be executed in. Instead we are waiting 30min we might be waiting 15min. But the issue still stands that we are waiting.

[sick anvil]

they got the bounty but they aint leaving

[queen jungle]

the thing is shotgun camping isn't unbeatable if you don't also have a shotgun

the game has plenty of tools to deal with people camping in buildings

[unborn smelt]

and if you wait half the time for the payout - more people are gonna do the waiting

because it just got easier and more lucrative

[queen jungle]

i'll name a few
all dynamite, frag bombs, flash bombs, FMJ rounds, wallbanging in general, bee bombs
the list goes on

[unborn smelt]

which is where we go full circle with that being what we said in the beginning

Or at least the people that are against the shortened timer

[normal horizon]

it's gotten multiple adjustments over the years

its even got entrances added and adjusted over the years

so I wouldn't say it got missed

[hot vigil]

I know, but still not enough, still two very easy choke point :b

[unborn smelt]

Let me propose smth diffrent instead - lets take an encouraging approach rather than trying to make a hard limit.
We spawn useful resources in the lair compound but deliberately not in the lair, with the goal of people fighting over said resourcesmoving the fight into a compound fight rather than an inside vs outside lair standoff

[pseudo shadow]

Guess what happens to them if the match timer is lower. They die faster. It hits everyone the same. It doesnt change amything about anything at all. It just happens faster. And people are more likely to do stuff when the timer is low. It already happens. There is just 40 minutes of waiting on that to happen. Thats my point. And youre getting there too slowly.

[normal horizon]

2 easy choke points and 2 more entrances.

[pseudo shadow]

Take your time tho

Its fine

[unborn smelt]

well yes it does - it speeds up the already stronger tactic

people complain because waiting 50 min is boring

[hot vigil]

Stairs in the Church, ladder and two front entrances, am I missing anything?

[pseudo shadow]

And now its a circular argument. Thank you @unborn smelt

[normal horizon]

no those are indeed 4 entry points

[queen jungle]

you literally don't have to wait at all if you prepare your tools properly anticipating the situation before you even load into a game
this whole thing kind of seems like a skill issue lol

[unborn smelt]

shortening the timer, as already said by OwO Mc Cree doesn't change the waiting, nor that people are too scared to make an active approach

It just means the one waiting outside gets to wait less for the same outcome, being nearing the timers end the ones inside need to push or die

[pseudo shadow]

You mean like a wallhack that you only get when you go to the boss lair? Already exsists.

[unborn smelt]

If i wait 30 min for that to happen or 60 min means i get double the payout

[unborn smelt]

No i don't

[pseudo shadow]

What payout? Lmao

[sick anvil]

Just rework the compounds that a trio can have an infinite stand off

[unborn smelt]

the money you earn

collecting clues and potentially the bounty of the people you just camped for 30 min

[hot vigil]

Yeah, issue is that you can just slap down a bear trap on the ladder and that deter people from going that way 99% of the time 😛 We need a cave-in slope on one of the long sides imo. Underground always have the extra difficultly of no wallbang opportunity and lack of cheeky holes to shoot and throw in stuff.

[pseudo shadow]

Aaah yes. Now i found the issue. Your fun is the money you earn.

Well, then i cant help you. I play to win, because its FUN.

[unborn smelt]

No that's not the issue at all

[pseudo shadow]

My payout is the fun, even if i dont win.

[normal horizon]

issue is throwing anything or shooting the beartrap nullifies that beartrap so it's not a fullproof thing.

eitherway the main point I was making was that it wasn't forgotten but that it's already had multiple adjustments as have other compounds 🙂

[unborn smelt]

I play for the gamplay and the PvP - i enjoy outplaying and outsmarting the enemy and cracking the occasional hard case of lair campers

I simply don't agree with a shorter match timer being the correct solution - as the core issues still stand

the correct option is still to camp til the timer ends outside the lair

[hot vigil]

Ofc but shooting and throwing stuff announce your position, so you kinda lose your push advantage then.
But I get ya' point 🙂

[pseudo shadow]

You are willing to waste 30 mins for a fake currency that is useless even in its closed enviroment because you never initiate the next match, the thing that its for.

[unborn smelt]

No i'm not

[pseudo shadow]

I think you dont enjoy outplaying anyone, you enjoy outlasting. Admit it.

[unborn smelt]

I just don't get upset if i die when making a move

[pseudo shadow]

And i will respect it.

[queen jungle]

if you refuse to take the tools to defeat lair campers and refuse to make a move you are equally as guilty lol

stop being cowardly, it's definently not an unwinnable situation and you can outplay them

[unborn smelt]

I have played Hunt for far to long to default to regularly sit outside a lair for 60 min

[pseudo shadow]

You just did admit it tho "If i wait 30 min for that to happen or 60 min means i get double the payout" and after asking "what payout" you answered "the money you earn"

[unborn smelt]

I have done and will do it if the people inside are toxic. But usually I'll go for some push attempts and if i survive after wasting my resources i leave and play a new game

[unborn smelt]

yes it was a generalized statement as to why i think it wont work at all

[hot vigil]

I mean, I guess there is something you'll just need to accept when you boot up any games, like in League, I'd expect my match to be between 20-40 min on average.
And in Hunt that threshold is to the full extend of the map. Tho I do think we could shave 15min and not lose much of the overall game experience.

[pseudo shadow]

Because you get less money? It wont work?

[queen jungle]

i don't think the timer is something that contributes to stalemates much at all really

[unborn smelt]

let me rephrase it:
the camping player outside will be encouraged to camp for 30 min because his strategy will result in a win faster than with a 60 min timer

[pseudo shadow]

And the one inside will be encouraged to camp for 30 min because his strategy will result in a win faster then with 60.

Youre almost there!!

think one last time about it!

What is the difference?

Tell me

Between those 2

What is it?

[unborn smelt]

that's where the issue lies

the inside person doesn't win

by the games design

[pseudo shadow]

And he does with 60 mins?

[unborn smelt]

I never said they will

quite the opposite in fact

I said that camping inside is a and i quote "shortsighted mistake"

[pseudo shadow]

Okay so we deducted that : they dont win at 60 mins, and they dont win at 30 mins by camping in the lair.

Im IGNORING the fact that i dont think this is true btw. But whatever, lets take your delusion.

Whats the only difference here?

[unborn smelt]

How is it not true ?

[queen jungle]

the difference is games can easily be drawn over 30 minutes by things other than camping

you can have a few spaced out decently long fights

[pseudo shadow]

Answer for answer @unborn smelt you first, i gave you many already.

[queen jungle]

dying because the timer was halved due to this would suck

[hot vigil]

Guess there is three success rates Hunt:
Failure: You die, Hunter lost.
Neutral: You extract, but without bounty.
Win: You extract with a bounty.

A person camping inside is at a disadvantage that they need to push out eventually otherwise they die to a timer. But a person outside can very much make sure the inside team are stuck until they can't reach an extraction, while themselves are safe to extract.

[queen jungle]

I think an hour is perfect

[unborn smelt]

exactly

[hot vigil]

I have "burned out" a decent amount of Hunters by running the clock.

[unborn smelt]

while the feeling of winning is subjective

[tight delta]

Hour is way too long, promotes passive gameplay 🤠

[unborn smelt]

failure results in money lost

[crystal plume]

I see getting out without bounty as a failure and I'm not the only one

[unborn smelt]

the other two result in money earned

[crystal plume]

Or well, to be more specific, as a waste of time

[hot vigil]

I agree, do think we could shave off a little from the total timer. Just to make sure the stale mate is 10min long and not 20.

[unborn smelt]

So the question is does one prefer two 30 min matches of camping

or one 60 min match of camping

[queen jungle]

I think 60 minutes is fine

[unborn smelt]

Or does one not give a fuck and just don't camp

[crystal plume]

I wouldn't mind a shorter match time but not as low as 30 minutes

Something around 45-50 minutes

[tight delta]

45 min matches were great during the Scrapbeak event

[hot vigil]

Didn't Crytek try a 45min match timer once? How was that received?

Ah, thanks Dwalde :p

[unborn smelt]

I don't think a shortened match time is as bad as some make it out to be - but i also think it serves no purpose for immediate gameplay

[crystal plume]

Mixed reactions

And they did it because of serves being filled up from event

[unborn smelt]

Yes they did - some liked it some didn't

[tight delta]

I would rather see gameplay mechanics be introduced that punished excessive camping.

[unborn smelt]

Was done to get more server resources

I don't think punishing is the way to go

[tight delta]

Battle royales do this right with the shringing and movement of the play area.

[plush ledge]

A camper will camp but he is forced by the timer to leave his spot after 30 minutes instead of 50 when you reduce the match time

[hot vigil]

Just really hard to gauge what is camping and what is excessive camping.

[unborn smelt]

rather encourage the active part

[pseudo shadow]

Yes. I think so. And i think 2 matches, are always better, its 2 chances to win with the same winrate AND 2 chances to have unexpected fun!

AND you get the chance to atop playing faster too. Not that you would know tho, you like to waste time for hunt dollars.

[unborn smelt]

the reworks for compounds are a good step in the right direction already

[pseudo shadow]

Ontop of that, people are more likely to push too :D

[hot vigil]

I still wouldn't mind that all hunters got "quick play zapped" if the final bounty extracted.

[unborn smelt]

Well there we are - back to an opinion

we've already heard some would like the 60 min route more

[lethal oyster]

@marsh path
It's funny that you (and others) still complain about Cain. In my group of buddies it has long since become a running Gag that, when we spot a Cain (which we always do without issue) and call that out, the others respond sarcastically along the lines of "how do you see him? Isn't he invisible?".

Fascinating how perspectives can vary.

[pseudo shadow]

Your whole agenda is an opinion.

[unborn smelt]

so were far from a definitive "it would be better" again

[pseudo shadow]

No we are not.

[unborn smelt]

which is what people took offense in because you claimed that in the beginning

[pseudo shadow]

I still do.

Strawman man is back at it again

[unborn smelt]

you would enjoy two 30 min matches more - others might like 60 min matches more

[pseudo shadow]

Noone likes 40 minutes of waiting.

[unborn smelt]

the reasons why differ but in the end it's just 2 opinions

[queen jungle]

30 minute matches would be awful

[pseudo shadow]

Oh wait, you do. Its 250 hunt dollars after all.

[queen jungle]

matches where you engage multiple teams often go over 30 minutes

[pseudo shadow]

Dont engage then.

[queen jungle]

it would also make people much less likely to go for a double bounty

[plush ledge]

Don't underestimate Dennis our lead designer easily camps a spot for 55 minutes

[queen jungle]

don't fight people who are shooting at you?
Isn't that what you were aiming to solve?

I think your solution is bad and short sighted

30 minutes is way too short

[tight delta]

I would love to see a lot less stalemates in this game, I've just gone to other games to get my FPS itch. I'd love if the game somehow forced peeps to make decisions and take actions instead of blindly camping somewhere.

[pseudo shadow]

Might be true. I also adressed that in my statement.

[marsh path]

if its such a non issue why do so many people complain about it? oh maybe because its a skin harder to see than pretty much all other skins.
if its so easy to see why do so many people take it as a skin? couldnt be that it gives an unfair advantage to people who paid for the dlc....
just because you have amazing vision, doesnt mean everyon else does and by the accounts and people i speak to it would seem youre in the minority of thinking cain is an ok skin that is perfectly visible.

[queen jungle]

the match timer doesn't need to be shortened

this conversation can basically be boiled down to a skill issue of you not knowing how to deal with lair campers of which the game gives adequate tools

[unborn smelt]

They have in the past - and because it's an easy scape goat

pickrate can definetly be indicative of something being OP - however many people pick and choose when it is and when not

[queen jungle]

Devs have already said they're changing Cain, it's a dead topic at this point

[pseudo shadow]

Well, he is in a tough spot anyways, since some people apparently want hunt to be a sandbox game. Maybe thats even his vison of the game.

In that case we play 2 different games, and I mourn the death of Hunt : Showdown the shooter.

[unborn smelt]

good example is people cried about Dolch or cain pickrate and used it as undisputable proof - but if it come to the uppercut it suddenly isn#t anymore

[lethal oyster]

Honestly, it's a mystery to me just as well. I suspect it's mostly due to the complaint snowballing:

1. People claim Cain OP
2. Other people actually believe Cain OP
3. More people begin playing Cain
4. More people latch on to 'cain op'
5. 'cain op' spreads even further

I think it's just rather popular to whine about this specific skin when it's not actually much harder to see than other skins.

[hot vigil]

Always said that Dolch was the scapegoat of the real villain: long ammo in all its forms

Okay mostly all its forms

[unborn smelt]

Long ammo is fine - i hated it up until half a year ago

[queen jungle]

are you really gonna call martini a villain

[unborn smelt]

But you'll always have a meta

and now it's the most balanced it ever was

[hot vigil]

Naw, Sparks and Henry is okay in my book. Powerful, but with very defined and clear drawbacks.

[unborn smelt]

and slowly but surely we got enough counter options for a very healthy gameplay

[marsh path]

or because its genuinely annoyingly hard to spot... complaints have died down because community knows crytek generally dont do much about these issues.
its just getting annoying that half the server every match is a cain, i mean the game already has problems with there being way too many campers, lets just make skins for them to make it even easier to sit in a bush all match

[queen jungle]

THEY HAVE ALREADY ANNOUNCED THEY ARE CHANGING CAIN

OH MY GOD

[unborn smelt]

they near instantly changed Cain

[queen jungle]

and they're changing him further

[pliant wren]

Long ammo is just the antithesis of how I play. Inaccurately. (Cause I have a tracking issue with my eyes and slight nerve damage.)

[unborn smelt]

and they announced they'll change him in a late update again

[queen jungle]

they also spoke about how cain has influenced how they further develop skins

[pseudo shadow]

No it cannot. The person that agrees with not cuttimg down the game timer, has an entirely different view on that, wich contradicts yours. @unborn smelt camping outside the lair is the problem.

[unborn smelt]

So saying they don't do anything can't be further from the truth

[queen jungle]

camping outside a lair only becomes a problem if you camp inside a lair

you can move outside a lair and come from unexpected places if you kill the boss

[pseudo shadow]

But exiting the lair is death according to @unborn smelt

[queen jungle]

it is if you dedicate your entire build to sitting inside

[pseudo shadow]

Wich people do.

[pliant wren]

Ahh, J~ is at it again. Blocked him cause he doesn't know what 'logical fallacy' actually means.

[queen jungle]

yeah and it's a bad strategy

[unborn smelt]

They have a point that camping is a dominant strategy disliked by many.
And while i don't think it needs adressing, as many good players overcome the fear of taking action - I don't think encouraging active playstyles is bad

[queen jungle]

since there is a lot of things that can mess up your day

[queen jungle]

cutting the timer is absolutely the wrong way to do it imo

[unborn smelt]

I just think punishing slower or enforcing faster ones is a good move

[pseudo shadow]

No its not. You force people to engage woth you, or both parties lose.

[unborn smelt]

Oh i agree - i don't think cutting the timer does it

[pseudo shadow]

Its perfect actually.

[queen jungle]

cutting the timer has consequences beyond just camping

[unborn smelt]

but it also wouldn't be the be all end all if only done sparingly

[pseudo shadow]

You cant lose without them losing to, so they have to push and then you win

[queen jungle]

you're looking at matches in a vacuum

[pseudo shadow]

Its boring. Like rock paper scissors ...

[queen jungle]

of just one team going to boss and then other team arriving within 10 minutes of the match starting

[pseudo shadow]

Wich i already told you in my statement

[queen jungle]

which is absolutely not how matches pan out

you face teams early and get several strung out fights a lot of the time

[pseudo shadow]

Because people dont have unlimited time.

[queen jungle]

which can easily push you over 30 minutes

[pliant wren]

Dude needs to spend an afternoon watching streamers who are good and learning. Go watch Rachta, he knows how to push a base.

[pseudo shadow]

Dude seriously, when is the last time someone DIDNT banish the bounty after 10 mins?

[queen jungle]

like i've had 45 minute matches with no camping at all

[pseudo shadow]

Its 1 in 100 games for me.

[queen jungle]

you're looking at this from a one dimensional in a vacuum angle

[pseudo shadow]

Dont treat that 1 game you had months ago like its the norm

[queen jungle]

where your scenario is the only way games happen ever

[pseudo shadow]

And you dont look at all

[queen jungle]

and its just blatantly wrong

in fact camp offs are pretty rare, i've had very few in hundreds of hours of playing

but maybe thats because im an active player who takes tools to help me deal with those situations

[pliant wren]

Lol, funny how if you don't choose to camp outside, they don't end up camping inside.

[queen jungle]

yep, i think cutting the timer to 30 minutes would be pretty awful in the long run

you'd start never having those great games where people go for double bounties because the timer wouldn't permit them

[pseudo shadow]

Then make it 40, so the slowpokes have a chance too.

[lethal oyster]

Timer is fine as it is. There are occasionally gunfights that last 20 minutes or even more. Having such a fight only to then be forced to either retreat from the fight or not be able to kill the boss afterwards would be pretty awful

[queen jungle]

not really "slowpokes" because you can't control if you run into another team on the way to the boss or not

[pliant wren]

And what about new players too. People completely forget how daunting this game is the first week you're playing it, when you have no clue about the actual layout of the maps and all the enemies are still new to you.

[unborn smelt]

while i absolutely disagree with the majority of what they are saying.
It is true that hunt does favor a passive playstyle and does a bad job of encouraging active playstyles in BH.

But there's where it goes full circle to my first response - ** go play QP** there the objective is enforced and the economy doesn't discourage an active playstyle.
they caould also open QP up for teams granted the playerbase is big enough

[pseudo shadow]

Those gunfights are so long because noone commits to a push tho... its caused by the very thing you think you need to wi the fight. Time.

[queen jungle]

literally the only comment you had in counter was "Dont engage then." like you're not going to shoot at enemy hunters you see because you're too busy being worried about the timer

i don't think the match timer is something that should be sitting in the back of your mind all game, it just makes matches less fun

[pseudo shadow]

Its truely sadening you dont see that. But whatever, im 100% convinced we dont play the same game.

I proposed a solution for that too. A faster paced ranked mode with 1 bounty and 30* mins. Thats it.

*up to debate but definetly alot less then 60

[pliant wren]

Yeah, the moment "The game will end in 5 minutes" comes up after the bounty leaves is the most gut-punchy annoying thing.

[queen jungle]

yeah, I'm convinced you're not experienced enough to deal with things that can be dealt with

your solution is bad

[pseudo shadow]

I got to go again, congrats on outlasting me again @unborn smelt

Have fun with your 250 imaginary hunt dollars!

[tight delta]

QP is solo mode 😦

[unborn smelt]

Well than, have a great day none the less 👍

[native lodge]

you could also put an idea for 45 minute match timer in #game-ideas again and see what people think about it currently

[unborn smelt]

yeah that's why i said - i'd be open to opening QP up to teams too granted the playerbase is big enough

because in the end the solo only queue did pronounce the "camping issue" so much the majority felt it wasn't fun anymore

[pseudo shadow]

I just muted you too. You were the guy that engineered his whole playstyle around camping with traps right? Despicable.
But i accept it.

I also accept you not liking the idea, because you atleast admit, that you basically like to stare at paint dry.
You dont pose as someone that likes to push. I respect that.

Thanks for reminding me to block you tho.

[unborn smelt]

And as such it was taylor made to do it's best to circumvent the issue

[pliant wren]

I don't think it does really. It favors people using passive playstyles if they're not highly skilled. I'm one of those unskilled people, and I use those well, but I've seen plenty of high skill players go 'fuck yo camp' and just start wall banging and assaulting and it work. I mean, the question is, can you aim well, and how good are you at rotating in a compound while assaulting?

[unborn smelt]

which only sort of worked - even tho the objective is enforced, and there is 0 risk in an active playstyle people still are to afraid to push

[unborn smelt]

I know it can work - but only if you're significantly better than most opponents

[native lodge]

camping isn't great idea against certain level players depending on the compound, but any compound that favors stalemate camping is a compound design issue

not a timer one

[unborn smelt]

the fact SBMM tries making each engagement with an enemy team a 50/50 chance makes taking many engagements unfavorable, even with full resources

[queen jungle]

in duos you can easily fight 2 or even 3 teams before getting to a boss compound lol
a drastically shortened timer would just punish you for running into other players a lot of the time

[unborn smelt]

couple that with some resourced being non replenishable during a match - like vit shots, lost HP mostly and for some people the need to take care of the economy means you're overall better off minimizing engagements

That's what i mean by BH's design not favoringactive playstyles - but they are by no means unviable

you just need that extra bit of skill over your opponent

[pliant wren]

Oh I know, I'm a solo player 95% of the time. I'm at almost a complete disadvantage. But that's where being patient and having good tactics comes in. If they don't know you're around, most of the time, they don't camp, they'll just run for extract in a few minutes. And if extract is really close to the compound, usually all you have to do to drive them away, is go to the extract and mock a gunfight.

[atomic cipher]

Is this supposed to be a statement of facts? Or is this just your opinion? Because I have seen plenty of times when players are willing to camp all 59 minutes(or until they are getting pushed). Thus "it just got easier and more lucrative" doesn't work that way in my experience. I remember when Devs shortened the matches for some event, and the game did seem more "lively"

[unborn smelt]

Well fact is that none of the reasons why camping happened changed.
It's still risky to take the active part and beneficial to be passive and camp outside, because mechanically nothing changes that.

the only thing that factually changes is how fast you get the win/payoff for camping because it takes less time until they inside are forced to push out or die.
Up until here this is facts.

saying that it won't combat camping is my guess, because there's no reason they shouldn't be willing to camp anymore (because camping outside or inside are both ultimately camping) it even has the potential to encourage camping the outside because you only need to wait for 30 or 45 min and don't need to dedicate a whole 60 min. And if a team camps outside it essentially makes the others camp inside because thyir excuse is being trapped inside by the others.
This second part is my guess based on the facts described before

As for them testing out the 45 min timer - that's not a good representation of if it'd help or not, because it was during an event to free up server space

so there is other factors that encourage active play - mostly scavenging the map for event points, clues and crow swarm which doesn't work if camping and was tied to a timed exclusive reward

[atomic cipher]

Ok, so let's address the thing that you say is a Fact. "the only thing that factually changes is how fast you get the win/payoff for camping " This alone will be a kind of a solution for players who oppose camping, don't you think? Instead of potentially waiting 60 minutes, more active players will wait 30 minutes or less. Which leads to less frustration on their part. And campers will still be camping, their style of play stays the same ( so they do not suffer from such a change). Isn't it a win-win scenario?

[unborn smelt]

No because the camping will just continue in the next match - because nothing stops it from happening again

and by reducing the timer you don't only impact camping - you also impact other scenarios where you need to rotate a lot or cover a lot of distance

And the next thing is if you oppose camping - why are you camping outside for the thirty minutes ?

[native lodge]

^

[unborn smelt]

Sure you can say I oppose camping and do it anyway because they do it - at which point i'd say it's just a selfrighteus excuse why for you its okay but not for them

or you oppose camping and just don't camp - where the game will progress for better or worse, worst case you die while pushing, best case you fuck up some campers and take their bounty.

And in the end if you camp outsidce you're the one that can stop the camping for both parties by leaving easily. the ones inside can't

[atomic cipher]

I literally said that "campers will still be camping". I agree that such players will be camping no matter what. You seem to miss the point I was making. Which is a lot less players will be frustrated by a "wasted" time of 60 minutes. By more active players I meant anyone who ends up PUSHING at the end. And I was not talking about myself btw

[unborn smelt]

The thing I say is you only "waste" 60 min if you camp yourself

poeple always try to rationalize that by saying i can't push if they have shotguns

but then expect the others to be forced to push outside against better judgement

[atomic cipher]

Okay.... There are various situations when your argument actually doesn't apply. For example you get to the Boss compound after you already have been in a fight with a team or two. At this point you might be missing health, ammo, consumables. Take into account that there are compounds which are harder to push and easier to defend. So what, in such situations more active players should still try and push or simply leave? The objective of the game is to kill the boss/escape with a bounty.

[native lodge]

push, leave or wait

all are valid choices, but if team inside the lair decided they don't want to push into you either you can hardly blame them

[unborn smelt]

that may also be for the boss people tho, they can have lost resources or bars from fighting the first teams of challengers

The objective is also get the bounty off the hunters that have it

[crystal plume]

I've had this opinion forever and I still do, people inside the bosslair have much better chances at making moves in 90% of cases than the people outside and if they don't they have put themselves in that situation and made that choice

And the reason I will wait them out is to not reward them for it by leaving and letting them extract as well as that tells them to just keep doing it as it works

[cerulean hamlet]

i had a game a while ago where i just waited outside and the guy ended up pushing me and losing because i was next to the extract

[unborn smelt]

Yes but even if you have the better chances at making an active approach that active approach is still harder and more risky that camping the outside

[cerulean hamlet]

just gotta make a choice

[unborn smelt]

this ofc are just opinions now

[crystal plume]

I will sit out till the timer ends to make sure noone gains anything since I'm not gonna push inside to shotguns as they have a much higher likelyhood of killing me in 1 shot than I am to kill them rushing out a side I might not have a angle on

[unborn smelt]

and the truth differs a lot from situation to situation

[cerulean hamlet]

in that situation i make a break for it out the other side to run across the entire map to a different extract

[unborn smelt]

IMO if you camp outside trapping the others in you're just as responsible for the stalemate as the ones inside

[crystal plume]

Only because of them thinking that they are at a genuine disadvantage pushing out while pushing in I would be at a genuine disadvantage and playing into their hands

[unborn smelt]

My opinion is and likely will stay it takes two unwilling to commit for such a standoff as such you are both equally responsible

[cerulean hamlet]

that's the hidden part of the Hunt: Showdown title.

Hunt: Showdown/Standoff

[crystal plume]

Ragnarok you play enough to know how easy it can be to just scan, see where people are and get out without taking a single shot

[unborn smelt]

It's both times just in the head of people

[native lodge]

also I find stalemates are more a consequence of compound design

[unborn smelt]

they are both too scared

[crystal plume]

This

[unborn smelt]

with a long range loadout there is so many more CQC options you can choose and so many throwables you can gain even mid match to turn the tide

[crystal plume]

I am not scared outside, I'm just not dumb or impatient enough to play into their hands only to take a gamble on if they 1 hit kill me with a shotgun or not

[unborn smelt]

well same for the ones inside

[crystal plume]

The likelyhood of instantly dying when going out compared to pushing in is WAY smaller

[cerulean hamlet]

there's always taking pot shots in the general direction of whoever you're against and making a break for it while they get into cover as well

[unborn smelt]

I try not to take the side of any of the campers - camping inside or outside - both are campers and equally guilty in my eyes

[atomic cipher]

Well, then 30 minutes matches is still a win-win. 30 minutes (for players who are not completely new to the game) seems more then enough to move around the map/fight other teams/kill the boss/escape. No?

[crystal plume]

30 minutes is too little imo

[cerulean hamlet]

i take my time in games

[unborn smelt]

I've had many matches that took longer

[crystal plume]

45-50mins would be reasonable

[unborn smelt]

even without camping

[cerulean hamlet]

so i'm ending my games in around 45 minutes

[unborn smelt]

altho many of those were solo matches where i needed to constantly reposition against teams

[native lodge]

45 for single bounty 50 for double would be fine imo

[cerulean hamlet]

that's exactly what happens to me because i'm mainly solo

[atomic cipher]

Kk, make it 35-45 minutes Anything is better than 1 hour 🎉

[cerulean hamlet]

maybe a small map i'd want it to be shorter

[unborn smelt]

we don't have large and small maps tho

they are all 1x1 km

I don't see a use in reduceing the match timer - other than I don't like his playstyle, nerf it.
Which i think is not healthy for the game.

however with the vast majority not taking 60 min anyway i also think it'd only cause minimal disruption to gameplay

Overall i simply think reducing match timer won't help with the issue - and we'd be back having the discussion again and again

[native lodge]

thats a fair take

yeah most games aren't more than 45 minutes, but some of the best games I have had, have been. so although I don't want it, a 45 minute timer would have little effect either way imo

[cerulean hamlet]

make the game 2 hours

[unborn smelt]

I still think one possibly easy solution is open QP up to teams

[cerulean hamlet]

combine all the maps into one super map like FORTNITE

im just kidding

[unborn smelt]

Quickplay was born exactly to combat these issues

because in solo queue the stalemate situation was infinetely worse than in teams

this way one wouldn't take away from bounty hunt by trying to enforce a specific playstyle or nerf ones that some people don't like - yet there would always be a gamemode one can resort to when they are to annoyed by how bounty hunt plays out.

[native lodge]

make flash bombs stack up to 5

[cerulean hamlet]

i like quickplay as it lets me use guns i never buy

[pseudo shadow]

Rangoroks commitment to put words in your mouth, and ignore the good points you make or simply misunderstanding them is infurating to a point where only the pointless commitment campers have in hunt come close, wich he is trying to enable.

He is not only wasting your time ingame, but also in discord now.

Dude either has way too much time on his hands or a massive troll.

I hope its the latter. Would imply he works towards something atleast.

[sullen zephyr]

would be nice if there would be a 10x10km map with instead of 4x3 its 12x3 or even 16x3

[normal vine]

🤡 🤡

[pseudo shadow]

I dont like how you paint qp as the solution, when the obvious issue is, that i have friends. Id play QP a million times more then BH with my friends, or even random teammates. Playing together with people is Fun.

[normal vine]

can you even read?

[pseudo shadow]

Thats the question i ask him all the time.

You can even read it further up.

[errant meadow]

“Can you read?”

“Yeah I know right, this guy is crazy!”

[normal vine]

lmao

[pseudo shadow]

Well my mistake, i just actually read through his last thing he said. I agree that they should open up qp to teams.

Sorry but this troll is so persistant on repeating stupid things, i thought he suggested the same things he did a milliom times over in the past.

Id prefere BH with 30 minutes gametime over that tho. So im not behind that idea either

[wind stream]

You might disagree with Rango, but he is adressing the points and not attacking the person. Ad hominem attacks are usually a sign of a lack of arguments or bad intent. Remember to be respectful, calling other people trolls for disagreeing with you is not.

[errant meadow]

Plus they’re a mod, so why would he risk his position to mess with one person

[normal vine]

@pseudo shadow play a different game if you can't kill the people in a way that satisfies you

if they're camping, go kill them

if you're camping, kill them

[pseudo shadow]

Ad hominem is Probably the response wich will lead me to the greatest fulfillment after all his strawmans, false dillemas, circular arguments and sheer ignorance.

Its pointless to talk to him at this point.

[pseudo shadow]

Another strawman

[normal vine]

what is it with this discord and schizophasts

[errant meadow]

I’m immensely confused, why are you like “it’s pointless to talk to HIM” when the ad hominem point was someone else entirely

[pseudo shadow]

You become mod by wasting time on this discord. Or previously on mamy others. He doesnt risk anything. Just like ingame.

[pseudo shadow]

This discussion went for longer then just the last few messages lol

[queen jungle]

it’s really telling that you start pointing the finger and accuse others of doing things that you deem bad

[wind stream]

there is nobody forcing you to continue this conversation, Im just reminding you that you should be respectful

[normal vine]

and you're really dragging it on

[pseudo shadow]

Yes, and you resert to phrases like "its really telling" instead of telling me you think im wrong directly like i do.

[wind stream]

This meta discussion is not relevant to hunt anymore. So it's best we end this and discuss actual suggestions/ feedback

[pseudo shadow]

Have been telling that too yesterday ... i agree.

[normal vine]

24 player match that has double the time

^ my suggestion

[queen jungle]

I’ve told you several times I think you’re wrong and the reasons why but your responses were just basically ignoring my points and handwaving

[errant meadow]

Slow Play

[pseudo shadow]

That certainly might be action to the point of chaos on maps this small, lol.

Could be fun

[normal vine]

it could also lead to 95 minute campfests by up to 22 different spitzer cains surrounding you at prison

[oak quartz]

24 player but with increased spawn locations in random parts of the map

Problem is adjusting the AI

[pseudo shadow]

Towards the end, people will definetly camp again. But with 24 teams, you spawn ontop of each other

You cant start a game without a fight then probably xD

[oak quartz]

(hence new spawn locations)

[pseudo shadow]

Whats the objective then? Last man standing?

Team*

[oak quartz]

No other change

Simply allow spawns in all the map, not just edges, and increase to 24

[pseudo shadow]

Oh its players and not teams :x

[oak quartz]

I'm also willing to bet it would fix the issue with: "spawned across the map and boss already banished, with 3 extracts right on them"

The problem will be adjusting AI

[pseudo shadow]

I feel like this would increase that problem

[oak quartz]

Again...

[oak quartz]

Yeah

[lunar kettle]

I didn't follow the complete discussion so that idea is maybe not new:
Increase the banish-time? Like 1 or 2 or 3 more minutes.

[cerulean hamlet]

i would not like that

[errant meadow]

I might like that

[cerulean hamlet]

as a solo i need to get in and out fast

[errant meadow]

Oh true

[cerulean hamlet]

banish time is like 200 seconds right?

1 percent every 2 seconds

[errant meadow]

I was thinking, as with a team member, banish time is sort of a time to joke around before the teams get there or even get shots in before depending on the darksight boost to find em

[cerulean hamlet]

when somone is banishing i use that time to make pot shots since they don't know where you are when they don't have the dark sight boost

[pseudo shadow]

I feel like solo players should get their own mode at this point. A solo players opinion is worthless in a coop pvp shooter. You put yourself in a disadvantage willingly, get lower match mmr, and you still want changes that benefit you as a solo player ... if its 1v3v3v2 or something ... its absolutely okay if you lose. Over and over again.

Im saying this as someone who plays half his matches solo, just for fun

[normal vine]

this was already shot down, it would be a campfest of unparalelled extremity

pretty sure the lead dev was the one of that opinion

not positive

[pseudo shadow]

Has it been done yet?

[cerulean hamlet]

it feels SO GOOD to own a trio as a solo though

[normal vine]

imagine if all cain had to do was wait in his bush for ONE and a maximum of ONE person

even I'd bush lurk

[oak quartz]

Maybe that, combined with a few changes, into a more "hardcore mode".

Tripling the banish time, only one extract that will only be accessible and visible when having the bounty. If you wanna extract you must bounty hunt.

[pseudo shadow]

I know ... thats because you are at an disadvantage. So changes that are specifically designed to also hurt this aspect of achievement.

[normal vine]

I think solos should be compensated further in some way

[cerulean hamlet]

you get more bounty as a solo

[normal vine]

but solo bounty hunt is a pass

[cerulean hamlet]

just good luck getting the bounty

[normal vine]

to a degree? it's not a ton more iirc

1v3 is a decent chunk but nothing immeasurable

and surely no compensation for the effort of a 1v3

[cerulean hamlet]

at this point bounties aren't that important to me

i just need to satiate my lust for blood

mr chary keeps bankrolling me

[normal vine]

like, a chary roll on succesful solo bounty extract would be poggers

'Mr. Chary rewards your dedication.'

[pseudo shadow]

The question is, at wich point is it compensation, and at wich is it promoting to play solo. And do you want to promote playing solo in trios?

[cerulean hamlet]

sometimes i want a nice solo only experience

i only play duos because i play solo

[pseudo shadow]

I mean sure, give me all the rerolls i can get for whatever xD final nail in the coffin of prestige

[unborn smelt]

Well and i don't like that you paint changing BH to your liking as the solution...
And i did say, multiple times that they should open up teams in QP (seperate from the solo queue) if the size of the playerbase allows for that

[pseudo shadow]

Yeah sorry, already corrected that. I misread that.

[unborn smelt]

Oh okay - i was just away for a while

👍

[pseudo shadow]

Im really sorry i got too passionate about it there

[unborn smelt]

Hey just make sure that it doesn't happen to often especially not with other members of the community

So far i haven't taken offense in it.

[unborn dagger]

@clear cedar I think it should be around 20 tbh since fights usually last around 30 minutes

[karmic ivy]

I do not agree, Hunt IS a sandbox game. And one way to play is not much better than all the others right now.

[karmic ivy]

That is my point as well, camping is not TOO strong, it is just one of the tactics. one of many.

[karmic ivy]

yep

[hot vigil]

Disagree, there is clear goals and failure states for a match of Hunt. You just have a huge freedom of approach.

[unborn smelt]

Hunt is a game with large sandbox elements

Sandbox games aren't required to have no objective

[hot vigil]

That is true, but having elements of something is not equal for being it.

[unborn smelt]

Minecraft has an objective too

[hot vigil]

Which was added as joke to people telling notch that Minecraft wasn't a game due to having no end.

[unborn smelt]

but i do think it's safe to say Hunt is not a dedicated sandbox game - but heavily draws from it

[hot vigil]

Well, by that parameter we can easily argue that every game is sandbox game as the player have ultimate freedom of choice how to Play it

[vital drum]

I think it's more of a semantic argument at this point

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling Hunt a sandbox, because at the end of the day, you aren't really obliged to do anything but extract at some point. You have incentives to go after players and bosses, but the game doesn't force you to do anything, but extract within an hour

[hot vigil]

Again, but that logic most game doesn't force players to do anything. But I agree semantics :b

[vital drum]

Not really, most games have much more specific criteria of winning

[karmic ivy]

you pretend not to know things...

[unborn smelt]

They're not pretending not to know - they likely just disagree

which is a perfectly valid opinion to have

[vital drum]

You can say the same about Crysis 1, which is widely referred to as a sandbox environment. But it still has a plot and specific objectives, and yet the term sandbox is important, because it helps us differentiate between games that offer a variety of approaches to solve a problem and ones that generally don't.

And it that sense Hunt absolutely can be called a sandbox

[hot vigil]

I agree, there is elements of it. Just feel a death timer really deter from the Sandboxness of Hunt. If Hunt maps was more akin to DayZ, with a persistent world, that chugs along while you log off, I would call Hunt a sandbox.

[karmic ivy]

I don't think an hour is too long. some games take that much time to unfold.

[pseudo shadow]

And the only thing the whole game is designed around is the bounty, and pvp.

You can hardly do anything fun beyond that with the tools you have.

Minecrafts fundamental tools enable you to build anything you can imagine.
And then they added redstone and command blocks. Now you can play gameboy games in Minecraft.

If you argue that hunt is a sandbox game, you want hunt to be something else then it is.

[karmic ivy]

The lack of shrinking maps is part of why Hunt is best. I do not like that mechanic.

[unborn smelt]

The ability to create is not a prerequisite for a sandbox game

[pseudo shadow]

No, and i didnt say that.

[unborn smelt]

many sandbox games have that feature because it lends itself for that type of game perfectly

[pseudo shadow]

But i implied that beeing able to create, lets you set your own objectives far easier then hunt, and the possible objectives are also more fun.

[unborn smelt]

But giving players a plethora of tools to concuer an objective in own creative ways is enough to consider the game at least partially sandbox game

[karmic ivy]

lol ya

[pseudo shadow]

Fortnite lets you create stuff, as an leftover asset from a different game. And its also not a sandbox for example.

[unborn smelt]

And while Hunt isn't primarily a sandbox game ofc. It draws very heavily from the concept of sandbox games which also is an important part for it's unique gameplay.

[pseudo shadow]

Im not even gonna need to pretend to not know what this means

[pseudo shadow]

Wich parts of the game do you mean specifically?

[karmic ivy]

Well said.

[vital drum]

Again, we can go into semantics, but I think sandbox is a very important word, when describing Crytek's approach to game design in general. It has been used to describe it for about 15 years now, and the fact that there are games, that take the concept of a sandbox more literally and push it farther, doesn't change that.

[unborn smelt]

well Hunt is primarily a PvEvP coop shooter - however the actual goals are open to interpretation

[pseudo shadow]

By crytek themselves as marketing? Or by people that talking about their games?

[unborn smelt]

it's not defined that you always have to be the one to end up with bounty

[vital drum]

Both, really

[unborn smelt]

that's why it's specifically not enforced to have it to extract

[vital drum]

Crysis and fps sandbox are almost synonymous at this point

[unborn smelt]

You as a player are supposed to weigh risk vs reward - Is it worth going for this particular token ?

Or is it beneficial to lick your wounds and prepare for the next one by not having lost a good hunter

[pseudo shadow]

And wich was first? Im not old enough to remember anything older then crysis 1 and its graphics beeing talked about.

[hot vigil]

Wouldn't a game like GTA be higher on the sandbox scale?

Ofc GTA ain't FPS

[unborn smelt]

Those gameplay decisions the devs made set it apart from non sandbox shooters like CoD or BF where there isn#t any other goal then the objective being either kills or PoI's

[pseudo shadow]

Definetly. Lots of games are way higher on that scale.

[unborn smelt]

Games Like GTA or Far cry also draw very heavily from sandbox games

[vital drum]

If the implication is that Crytek forced the idea of making sandbox games onto their customers, then I can't agree with it.

[hot vigil]

I think I would call BF a big sandbox game.

[unborn smelt]

I think for BF it's debatable

It's a big scale multiplayer shooter - but you really don't get many choices how to approach the objectives

[pseudo shadow]

Im just trying to figure out where that missinterpretation comes from. Marketing was my first guess.

[unborn smelt]

like Hunt is designed deliberately to not enforce PvP - ratting it out is a perfectly viable way to play as is teaming up

[pseudo shadow]

Im also only talking about hunt here

[vital drum]

Yeah it would, battlefield I would score a little lower than Hunt, but its larger modes can also be called a sandbox.

[hot vigil]

There is a lot freedom on how you can engage your enemies be it land, air or even sometime sea. Motorized or on foot ect. ect.
How different is it compared to Hunt? You can either engage with PvP/PvE or not. There ain't much else to do.

[unborn smelt]

well you're never forced To PvP in hunt for example

altho yes BF can also be considered partly a sandbox game

[hot vigil]

Same can be argued with Battlefield, you can just be an engineer and repair build stuff.

[unborn smelt]

lending from the genre without being a dedicated one

I mean okay yeah i kind of agree

good points you have there

[hot vigil]

I mean I'm just trying to make a line and see where different games plays on the "Sandbox scale" :b

[vital drum]

Battlefield's game design also has a lot of sandbox elements for sure, the only reason why I would score it a bit lower is its specific winning criteria.

[normal horizon]

you can't leave whenever you want without actually quitting that match tho

Hunt you can go in just to get some xp for a weapon for example and leave

ending the round for you normally so to say

[karmic ivy]

That is just... silly

[unborn smelt]

they did apologize already. All good

[karmic ivy]

And yet you do it for hours....

[pseudo shadow]

Maybe its the "PvPvE" description that i dont like, as opposed to people calling it a sandbox. It only just barely scratches that definition because after 10 or so matches, you know every single AI enemy and their weaknesses. Their approach or "AI" is the same everytime, partly because theyre the mindless zombies theyre supposed to be. And if youre solo in a server, people only ever stay in the server after the bounty is done to farm event points (if a second objective is added).
If they even bother at all.

The bounty is also only scary roughly the first 10 matches.

After that theyre just additional hazards in a pvp game ...

[frosty fiber]

hey thats me !! >:))

[hot vigil]

That is a good point, but is that ultimately what happens? Is that the ideal gameplay loop?

[unborn smelt]

Yes that's the point of AI - it's not meant to be a threat on it's own, they even reworked dogs in the past because they were to big of a threat. The main replay value is the PvP and the AI serves as a catalyst to get the PvP going

[pseudo shadow]

Good point actually

[unborn smelt]

The AI essentially serves the purpose of the Storm in other BR games - without actually enforcing the action because of the economy the game is built around

[hot vigil]

Oh god, not the dogs

[vital drum]

Well, it expands further though. You can have a couple of fights and choose to extract instead of going after the bounty team, if you lost bars and expect to lose against a team with long ammo weapons even at range. Maybe you looted much better weapons in the process and are happy to extract with them, which will feel like a victory. You can already have a set of bounties and choose to go or to not go after the team with the other. You kinda set your own criteria of winning in the end.

Of course, the better you are at PvP, the more you will be drawn towards it eventually. But the reality is that there are many high prestige players, who still are happy to grab a bounty and extract, no matter whether they got a chance to fight or not.

[karmic ivy]

yeah I am caught up now. It supprised me so much I said something before getting to it.

[karmic ivy]

I agree, what makes hunt special to me is that I get to set my own criteria of winning.

That is why I feel it is sandbox-like

I am very drawn to PvP though, sometimes i risk my new loot just to have some.

[pseudo shadow]

you cant* But* you get rewarded for everything you did in that match up until that point. "winnig" in battlefield is really just a bonus. while you lose your character if you dont mange to extract in hunt making it actually hurt to "leave" before the match is over.

[karmic ivy]

it does not feel the same, in Hunt leaving early with something good has more gratification.

[hot vigil]

Agreed, tho being able to tap out early is more a feature than a core gameplay, maybe to lessen the "hardcoreness" of the game. Don't think many people queue into a game of hunt thinking "my goal is not to grab the bounty and engage in PvP".
If there other lesser contracts that required to engage with the PvE side of the game (like killing X meatheads, Grunts, immolators ect. ect. or loot X amount of Hunt Bucks) I would be more lenient to say the game had more of a sandbox approach.

[pseudo shadow]

i had to edit it anyways sry. And yeah, thats because you didnt lose your hunter.

[hot vigil]

Tbh I do like the idea of lesser contracts now. .

[unborn smelt]

But battlefields lacks the out of the immediate game environments where there is repercussions for not winning, like loosing money and experienced hunters

bit hard to describe what exactly i mean but i hope you get it

[hot vigil]

Well you get less meta progression I guess?

[unborn smelt]

I mean yes but you do so in hunt too

[pseudo shadow]

I think i got it, but i feel like that makes battlefield a better sandbox even more, because you dont get punished for something you might wanna do.
So i dont think i got it xD

[unborn smelt]

but you won't have to worry about not being able to afford that meta Assault rifle

or your favorite sniper

you don't need to fear your operator is capable of less actions than somebody elses that survived 3 matches

This perma death aspect to hunt is what makes you have to choose between winning the current match or "winning" at the overall game, for example by ensuring you have enough money, leveled hunters, etc to make it to more games to come

[hot vigil]

Yeah that is a interesting thing -most- sandbox games tends to be less punishing on player failure.

[unborn smelt]

especially the ones that are very goal less

because too much of a setback has the potential to make people quit very fast

I think valheim was a great example for that - where an unlucky setback could cost you days of grinding metals because they sunk to the bottom of the ocean

[karmic ivy]

reminds me of getting my Rust base wiped out, then taken over lol

[pseudo shadow]

oooooh, yeah now it dawned on me i think. it doesnt make Hunt a better sandbox, quite the opposite actually, but it does make you think of a strategy on when to extract even more that way.

[unborn smelt]

I never got that much into games like Rust, conan exiles or the likes so i can#t compare those from my own experience

[karmic ivy]

Rust was really good for a base building PvP duo game. Good game, but in the end, the west coast was dead to rust. It was hard to find good populated servers. (because I liked modded duo servers)

That is where Hunt really shines!

great well populated and fast servers.

[red atlas]

Yeah. Someone already told me, haha. But there should still be an option to do it automatically. Tons of games give you the option and it'd be nice to have for people who don't know the trick. I assumed pushing esc would do it, and when it didn't work, I just assumed that you couldn't. :P

[ancient swift]

Why the chary contract gives me a skin that already have? fucking non sense

[hot vigil]

Not all skins are permanent, sometimes he just give you a one-off. So look at it as a free gun.

[pearl sundial]

Anyone wondering how Hunt servers behave and what the actual tickrate is, here's a post I just made https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/szn5cp/analyzing_server_performance_and_tickrate_more/ enjoy. Hope we'll finally see improvements in the future.

[hot vigil]

Where do you have all this info from? 🙂

Also impressive work

[clever prawn]

Yeah I get that, I don't mind the logos but I absolutely hate the loud ass whisper saying cryengine lol

[unborn smelt]

An easy way is using a packet analyzer software like wireshark for example.
As for interpreting the data measured the by the tools, the Battle(non)sense videos he linked for explanation are amazing in giving easy to understand explanations

[elder ibex]

@whole tendon public api would be cool

imagine it with match history and aftermatch heatmap of player movement

[whole tendon]

i'd love to be able to view my hunt stats on a separate website, possibly even showing all sorts of stats that aren't shown in the game itself yet. Lots of big games do this. As a programmer, and a massive fan of this game, i'd love to work with it!

even if it just starts small, could be built on top of. It would be really cool to have some living hunt profile associated with your discord or something for everyone to see your hunt accomplishments!

[hybrid forum]

@long compass it does, I don't know the circumstances, but many times I've dropped a lit grenade post mortem

[vague patio]

@tiny flicker cause pax precision would have too few downsides compared to nagant precision

[long compass]

I'm watching Psychoghost right now and he died holding a lit frag bomb and when he was revived it was right back in his inventory.
I have noticed it happen once though. I killed a hunter right as they threw a fire bomb and it dropped on them and burned them.

so maybe if you die right as it leaves your hand

but not before

[hybrid forum]

or maybe if it cooks for long enough?

idk

[vague patio]

if you die while holding it gets back

[hybrid forum]

then I stand corrected

dynamite should be like a hot potato

when lit, you don't want to hold it for too long

therefore it shouldn't get back to your pockets

[tiny flicker]

@vague patio but Scott Precision doesn't?

[vague patio]

way slower muzzle velocity

[tiny flicker]

True, and yes Pax P would be better then Scott P, but it would also fill a gap between obrez and other medium slot weapons imo

It would just fill the role better then Scott and make Pax meaningful again, i think.

[vague patio]

pax should be meaning ful in other ways

scooty pres is good as is

[tiny flicker]

Ok, but how? Because right now it just isn't

[maiden pelican]

Are you saying remove scottfield precision?

I would rather they add two things to the pax, a longer barrel variant, and a deadeye

[tiny flicker]

Meh, don't know. A Pax precision would be very similar

yeah longer barrel for sure

[maiden pelican]

Pax with a longer barrel for 115 damage and higher velocity, and a small slot deadeye scope

[tiny flicker]

Yeah, it was suggested in the idea channel before

[maiden pelican]

Put that wire stock on the long barrel variant for a Pax Match and we have a new great medium slot

[tiny flicker]

Sure, that'd be good. I don't understand why they didn't do so in the first place

But, yeah, the more variants the better i guess

[maiden pelican]

It's crytek, they are a mystery

[tiny flicker]

Overall they are doing a good job i think

[karmic ivy]

"TL;DR a disappointing 30Hz update from the server in duos, trios, and qp." I am not sure I follow your logic. You say 30Hz is disappointing. But I have not been disappointed in my game-play experience on those 30Hz servers. So my question is: Why are the servers bad for hunt, if hunt is running good and feels good? And that sentiment is derived from our gameplay that of myself and of my wife who plays right next to me. Also my friend on the east coast has the same experience as us.

[unborn smelt]

well they do explain how the lower tickrate negatively affects movement for example, and even tho i love hunt, it's kind of notorious for the desync thet teleports you up or down ledges or sliding of lvl geometry

So while generally not gamebreakingly bad - it could possibly be improved by a better tick rate. And a better tickrate usually improves all sorts of aspects in a videogame as it means the client and servers update each other more regularly

[karmic ivy]

personaly I don't get too much desync. I guess I do not think of that as a reason to change what they have going. It is annoying and has happend to me, but like other things, you learn the game and how to move.

[karmic ivy]

would a higher tick rate increase the network thruput requirements of the game? if you know.

[unborn smelt]

I'm not 100% sure but i think yes it can

[karmic ivy]

I honestly just like it the way it is, it works. I am skeptical of change lol

[unborn smelt]

the sources they linked below the post, by Battle(non)sense do a good job of explaining the basics

[karmic ivy]

I agree, those are some of my favorite videos. I like his style.

Ill have to see if he answers my question, I have not seen them all yet

[unborn smelt]

one of the two does, those are my go to videos to explain some of the lag compensation logic to people

and why high ping can be detrimental to all players experience - but ultimately it's not unfair

[karmic ivy]

That video he did about system latency was my favorite. I really liked his high speed camera setup. He is the only one Iv seen to do that so far.

great experiment.

[unborn smelt]

Specifically this point they make
"Hit registration suffers, though Crytek made it clear that clients hold most authority over shots, as they prefer to increase high ping players' experiences, while region appropriate players suffer as a consequence"

where i'm not quite sure how hitreg suffers as a consequence of high ping players. I think that one is at least questionable if not plain wrong.

[karmic ivy]

I have to run, I have some grout ready to go in between some tiles. Ill be back later to read any missed responses.

Thanks for the chat

[unborn smelt]

because you can hit high ping players just fine as your client has a high priority as they explain

and if they have high ping, they can kill you "behind cover" which can worsen the experience, but it's not unfair, because the server did agree the shot should have hit before you reached cover if they didn't have high ping.

so i'd say hitreg is fine (because we don't have the server coverage or playerbase to take an approach that discourages playing with too high ping like the BF system in Battle(non)sense's video) it's fair overall - but can feel a bit frustrating to lower ping players especially if you don't understand how it works

[frosty garnet]

@opal cradle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Tittle: Witch - Alternate idea
Description: Having a witch that teleports from building to building doesn't work because not all compounds have multiple boss locations.
I have a different witch.
A Queen Hive Lady, im not 100% what mechanics she would have but i think it would work better.
Also it would be the second "Poison" boss.
Reply to this if you have any ideas how she would work.```

@buoyant cloak, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

please add damage counter for match```

[sharp arrow]

@desert turtle Steady hand effects the spyglass. Unless someone else already told you that.

[buoyant cloak]

game should add damage counter for matches at the end of the match -reply if u agree

[vague patio]

@narrow narwhal pretty sure, thats where hegot his name from

from the glasses

[pliant wren]

I liked the idea of being able to ping with the spyglass and get a distance reading.

[karmic ivy]

That is how I thought it went. Thank you for the explanation. I would agree hitreg is fine. But I can see if you did not understand how it worked, it could be frustrating if you thought someone with a high ping had an advantage over you.

[tiny grove]

First game with the new twitch drop... Wtf

Can we discuss if i am crazy or not for thinking that is a head shot? lol

[vague patio]

to far left

wondering how you got a hitmarker atall, must have barely scrapped the shoulder

[tiny grove]

Pause on the shot. It was on his nose

[vague patio]

wasnt on her nose tho

[ripe basalt]

@wispy lion Your post in #feedback is a #game-questions or #game-ideas, not feedback.

@whole ridge Your post in #feedback is not feedback and is being deleted.

@stone pulsar Your post in #feedback is not feedback and is being deleted.

@warm zephyr Your post in #feedback is not feedback and is being deleted.

@magic lantern Your post in #feedback is a bug report and belongs in the correct bug channel thus being deleted.

[sick anvil]

well then again the bullet is 11,43mm in diameter on the MHICI thus about 5.715mm the bullet has reach each side of the front post thus this would have at least scratched the jawline

Question thus comes up , does the game take this in consideration that the front post is significantly thinner than the projectile of the gun if yes in case the hit would be non lethal on the head does it give a different damage from a different hit box value ? i am pretty sure the offset of the sight and muzzle is not taken in consideration bullets travel in straight lines in hunt

it takes something in consideration as if it would be a zero dimension ray it would have been a miss

but it did register a hit

well the bullet diameter would not be to much to think off , the other factors would be way to taxing on the server

Altought bullet diameter would be a massive complication already

then again hunt claims projectile based system where the bullet leaves center of mass of the hunter

[frosty garnet]

@severe drift, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Ban russian players from EU and ucranian Servers```

[ruby magnet]

It's either that or on the frame pause a grunt in the back got hit. Hard to see though. Or is that another whiteshirt running by in the back who got his foot clipped?
On top of that she kept moving to the right (shooter perspective) so by the time the shot was fired maybe it only hit her shoulder or missed entirely.

[steady prism]

@severe drift so why exactly does this make any sense?

[frosty garnet]

@frail spade, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Please, I only have one wish: as soon as you open the map please let the overlays disappear so one can see the whole map. Whenever I am checking the map and someone banishes a boss or the map is being updated the overlay really pisses me off bacause you have to wait for it to disappear to see the map again. Doesn´t anyone else have the same issue? Would be very nice if that could be fixed. Otherwise: great job, love the game.```

[trim trout]

Please add a button or option that disables all " + " signs in the main menu.
Every update it resets all my equipment and is currently bugged out, as nothing new is left to select and yet there are still MANY orange plus signs everywhere.

[latent forge]

#feedback message @chilly dagger
Drop #4 26th February – 1st March: Watch any Hunt: Showdown stream for 120 minutes to unlock the Hunting Bow “Sinners Sinew"

Drop #5 27th February – 1st March: Claim Drop #4 and watch any Hunt: Showdown stream for 180 minutes to unlock the Legendary Hunter Louisiana Outlaw, Steel Eyed

[potent quartz]

@upbeat axle Cain is supposedly getting a rework in March

so until we get more information about it we shouldnt be saying remove this or that yet

[frosty garnet]

@topaz forge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

A (un-)check-box to disable the "something-is-new"-pluses completly would be great!```

[frosty garnet]

@tall veldt, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

https://youtu.be/GS3RccZ5SC0```

[warped knot]

Yeah :p

[upbeat axle]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-parrot-papagallo-amitico-party-gif-8906272

[sick anvil]

@wispy lion you are dreaming i was forced to play on night 3 times back to back

[frosty garnet]

@midnight wolf, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Improve lighting conditions in dark areas for dusk and dawn maps. It is impossible to see anything inside layers and buildings even with TV and gamma setting cranked to max. Please fix or take out of rotation crytek.```

[unborn dagger]

I don't know about that. The unmoving faces just makes it look unpolished. They don't need to make it where it looks cartoony.

[frosty garnet]

@sick steppe, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

make bullets pen arms into head```

[frosty garnet]

@summer void, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Can we fix the bomb lance for the hit box? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1407191968```

[ripe basalt]

@summer void Your post in #feedback was deleted because it seems to be a bug report. Please post it in the correct channel.

[steep lotus]

please delet cain

[ripe basalt]

@rugged wigeon Your post in #feedback is being deleted because it's a bug report, please use the correct channels.

[pliant wren]

Please make mediocre Legendary skins blend in better so people will stop complaining about Cain.

[wispy lion]

@sick anvil thas called good rng, i get nighttime once in 10 matches

[sick anvil]

you call it good rng i call it shit . i would not mind if they get rid of night time because i am annoyed by the sheer fact that majority of players be running silenced guns and som bush wookie skins that blend . then spend 30minutes camping the boss layer or the exits

[queen jungle]

They haven't done a good skin for sell since the bayou twins, but the twitch skins I would buy
but fuck watching twitch for 8 hours in a week
Why can't I just buy them?

[unborn smelt]

befcause the intent of twitch drops is generating interest for the game beyond the people already playing it. For exmple during the last twitch drops campaign the people watching in total was over double hunt's playerbase and HUnt was the most watched game on Twitch for a short time.

And on top it allso allows Hunt content creators a chance for significant growth.

[queen jungle]

ok but why can't they sell me good skins for guns anybody cares about?

[unborn smelt]

IMO they brought a lot of good skins in the meantime - for both hunters and guns

[unborn dagger]

I certainly wish there was a different way to get them cause having to watch a stream that I don't give a crap about sucks

[karmic ivy]

That sounds like good success, If you get a chance please pass on my congratulations to the rest of the team, that sounds great!

[meager hound]

just put it in minimum quality, mute the tab and keep it running in the background while you do something else

or put it in your phone

[unborn dagger]

That's what I'm doing, just wish it was something more fun

[crystal plume]

@elfin citrus You can turn off SBMM after reaching rank 100

Unless you mean random queue

[frosty garnet]

@wraith pecan, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Because of Hunt's team formation mechanism, I have added hundreds of steam friends, we need ”Team up with non steam friends“ .```

[steep lotus]

Maybe have skin drops for playing the game instead of streaming as well, seems odd to encourage twitch views and that might turn into higher player count, but you could just give skins for playing for 90 mins

[frosty garnet]

@sonic torrent, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

If you use the headsman skin with the spyglass his gloves cover some of the view. Can we get a fix for this?```

[pliant wren]

I'd much rather do this than have to basically no life the game for a week to complete events. They're such a pain for a solo. I got through the Christmas event by putting Vulture on all my hunters and using chaos bombs and blankfires to draw in pairs to fight each other, then scavenging the dead afterwards.

[unborn dagger]

Christmas event was fine. You really didn't need to grind that much despite the big number. Better balanced than the crap that was the scrapbeak event

[frosty garnet]

@jovial surge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Please add voip to random teammates, just got twice offed because teammate necroed me close to enemy.```

[wispy lion]

@sick anvilwell uh, it happens often whether its night or not so dont really get your point. i guess you dont like challenge? only long ammo in daylight.

[sick anvil]

I am not hiding the facts that I think night and fog both are about the absolute dog shit of conditions to play hunt in .
You may call it challenge so was eating a tiepod or a spoon of cinnamon or snorting chilly powder. To remain civil please refrain from assuming how I play hunt based on your limited point of view

[wispy lion]

how am I limiting... you are limiting, you want less options, less scenarios. maybe hunt is not your game. night fits hunt like butter on a bread. maybe we need a toggle option for people like you, so you can get a tan in sunlight.

[sick anvil]

If you can not keep a discourse with out saying I am paraphrasing " if you do not agree with me this game is not for you " just because I dare to disagree with your opinion . This Conversation is over !

[wispy lion]

its not opinion, its the developers vision, night and fog belongs in hunt. its your own problem for not liking it/having a right mindset to play it or whatever. that's why you shouldn't probably play it. genuinely curious what is the reason you hate night and fog. tell me. why?

[frosty garnet]

@last meteor, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

.```

[pseudo shadow]

Developers are in a constant struggle to balance their determination to realise their views on their game, but also making the players happy by making changes to their game that they want. otherwise, if what theyre doing does not statisfy enough people, or atleast make them buy their game, they wont be even able top develop at all without any money.

Your argument therefore is not very good.

[wispy lion]

wasn't my main point. don't cling onto it so hard. still didn't get answer why that persons thinks night and fog are dogshit.

[pseudo shadow]

Thats highly subjective for everyone. But they do change the gameplay enough that its no suprise that people get mad they get forced to play them ...

its also just harder to see stuff, and thats an issue for many players too, no matter if they admit it or not ;)

[wispy lion]

that's why I love it. that's why many people love it. it gives cool scenarios, challenge, pain. its great. why does everything need to be so simple and easy.

hunt wouldn't be hunt, if it wasn't difficult. part of the game. therefore, don't understand why people start playing the game, and complaining one of the biggest part of the dynamic matches. TIME OF DAY. fun fact, day is not the only time of day in the world. might as well remove the ai as well. hell, lets remove the bosses too. they are scary. remove headshots as well. OHK is unfair. Oh yeah I CANT SEE CAIN. PAY TO WIN. ok what about the normal tier 3 hunters that are basically bushes. what about all the dark legendary hunters. part of the game. you can hide, valid tactic. same goes for night. adapt your playstyle.

[undone crest]

The amount of camping that is happening in this game is insane. And it's mostly because there is no reason for anyone to keep moving. There is no zone, you can't really loot anything, killing zombies gives you no reward whatsoever and you have a bunch of time to finish the game. Idk about that game design. Especially maps that have 2 bosses are insanely boring.

[bronze quail]

If on a game the most valid tactic is doing nothing that means that something is wrong.
Btw discussing about that on this discord is impossible ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[undone crest]

Why is it impossible?

I mean it's obviously a flawed design unless I am missing something. It would help a bunch if they just added more loot to be found on the map/more traits. Maybe even some weapons that cannot be bought but only looted. Then you'd have a reason to move but as of now.. there's literally no reason not to camp. The game rewards you for camping.

[karmic ivy]

I think it is a very subjective thing, "what is the most valid tactic", the answer to that question will change with the person.

[bronze quail]

Not playing the game should never be an option on a videogame

[hollow tartan]

Guys, what do you think about Reshade? Isn't it as bad as the Nvidia Filter?

[karmic ivy]

What about when one needs to delay, to burn time, to enable a proper ambush? just an example off the top of my head for why you might want to "do nothing" for a minute.

[bronze quail]

Waiting a couple of minutes is a thing and it's perfectly fine imo, waiting 30 minutes is pretty different

[bronze quail]

Way better than nvidia

[hollow tartan]

I mean if they removed the filter bc was "op" why allow reshade?

[warm zephyr]

can anybody tell me why this can happen?

[bronze quail]

None of the teams (yours included) was playing with skillbased matchmaking turned on.

[warm zephyr]

It was on

[karmic ivy]

I would agree 30 is an extreme case, but if that is someones style, why crimp it? I don't agree that we should remove options in terms of play-style. I see the Developers adding incentives to take the bounty since the beginning (recently too). It looks to me like they are gently tweaking things to where they need to be. And it looks like, purposefully preserving all the available game-play options.

[pseudo shadow]

First of all, it doesnt need to be simple and easy.

Second of all there is a difference if a game is hard because of well thought out mechanics and design, or if its random bullshit like randomness itself, or buggy game physics that hunt also has.
Then there is difficulty that is not fun to overcome, because its insignifficant or just annoying with no purpose.

Imagine if in the next patch of hunt youre required to type "lol" every 30 seconds in chat or you instantly die.

Not fun right? But its harder that way ...

These kinds of difficulty that i described is also two times more annoying in pvp. Because pvp with any kind of mmr is going to be hard enough on its own. No matter how simple the game is.

And again, i dont say it should be easy.

[unborn dagger]

I'd just love if night was a seperate game mode. There's a big issue I have with Hunt and that's having practically no preparation for anything since its RNG which makes stuff like the lamp useless to take in

[bronze quail]

^^^^^

The game was built around the thing that you actually have to take different loadouts depending of what and where you are going to fight.
Random contract literally removes all of that ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[opaque reef]

SBMM is trash.

SBMM uses a bracket system in which the number of skill brackets can vary depending on how many players are on that server. The lowest number of brackets is 2, so it divides everyone into 1-3 stars, or 3.5-6 stars. So rather than giving you an empty game, or a game with fewer people, it stuck you with people who you had no business playing against.

[opaque reef]

i hate night games because i can't see anything.

other people use filters or blown out gamma to make seeing easier, i turn up my gamma, but night vision gets worse with age.

i don't have much fun shooting at muzzle flashes.

[unborn dagger]

Uh yea that is the point

[opaque reef]

no -I- as in -I- specifically have a harder time seeing at night than many others.

I don't want them removed from the game, because other people should be able to play and enjoy them, but I personally would like to opt out of them because they make the game harder for me.

[unborn dagger]

I agree

I would really love if they were optional. It sucks cause I don't think Crytek will ever give us that option or increase night time despite advertising it so much.

[opaque reef]

like was discussed above, you can't plan for night/fog so it feels like you got an unfair roll when you get it and didn't want it. if i KNEW that it was going to be night, i might bring a lamp, or if i KNEW that it was fog, i wouldn't bring a scope.

but since it's random, you sometimes just get stuck with a weapon or equipment you can't actually use.

[unborn dagger]

True

[opaque reef]

it would be awesome if people could check what types of games they want. then the game could match people with others who want the same experience. you could bring back the inky black maps of old, without pissing off everyone who hates dark maps.

[unborn dagger]

Too bad that most likely won't ever be a thing like contracts since Crytek hasn't done jack shit about it so I'm giving up on it

[pliant wren]

I still just want a gun that shoots bees. Is that too much to ask?

[opaque reef]

Crossbow poison ammo should also release a small swarm

[unborn dagger]

I mean crossbow should be enough for a hive arrow instead of a makeshift gun

[sick steppe]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/940672726140592158/947295638490599444/unknown.png this is just... fucking get rid of rng crap i hate it so much wtf is this.

[merry niche]

Can you do another day of drops after Steel eye? I wanted the scottfield skin but now since I didnt log on for one day it is too late?

[pliant wren]

@late wind I would say instead of a charm, an item, costing at least 150 hunt dollars, like a transfusion kit, where you could take the blood of a dead hunter who hasn't been burnt and transfuse it into yourself. This would replenish a small lost health chunk, but that chunk is black instead of red, like coagulated blood. You can't heal that chunk if it takes damage during the match, and over time it shrinks, each chunk lasting 5 minutes. If you can extract with some of that chunk left, it will be restored to a normal small health chunk.

[late wind]

Something you can carry on your person to ctrl+z losing a chunk would be insanely OP. Finding them randomly or killing meatheads at least presents some risk. And therefore at least demands something of the player to restore a chunk. And only one at that.

But then again they wouldn't need this if they'd just address boss/extraction spawns and power creep.

[spice yacht]

Can we start a petition to get these drops automatically added for our Ukrainian hunters?!?!?! Or any of our hunters impacted with the war? It's the least this community could do!

[pliant wren]

I don't think it would be if that chunk was temporary, unhealable, and meant extracting within the next 5 minutes if you wanted to keep it. If you're taking it, it's cause you lost a chunk, meaning you're a 1 shot for alot of weapons. More likely, you're taking it cause you've lost several chunks. So you basically have to choose to either get your chunk back or go for the bounty.

Possibly have the item be a consumable instead of a tool.

[vague patio]

tbh, i dont thinkpeople there are reallyin the situation to care about anything ingame. They should rather do something like the fire dlc, where the proceeds get donated.

[unborn smelt]

I dont quite see the use of such a consumable/tool.

If it has no immediate benefit, why use it? You can already get the bars back in the main menue.
So if theres a mechanic to get back bars it should work during a match to keep players engaged in the match and not just run or do suicide pushes against long ammo.

I think the opposite would be more interesting, you use it and get max health for a set amount of time like 3-5 min after which the life begins to drain back to how much you had left.

[pliant wren]

At max level your hunter isn't earning trait points anymore, so you wouldn't be able to just spend them to get your chunks back. I'm assuming that's why the topic of alternative ways to get chunks back is being talked about at all.

And yes, banishing gets your chunks back, but as the man said, 5 minute matches are frequent enough to get real annoying when you're not the one being dumped on top of the lair at spawn, so we're ignoring that.

The only way I can see that this request makes sense is if you have a maxed hunter you don't want to lose, but you're at 1 or 2 chunks left and almost any extended gunfight is a suicide mission. I see no good reason not to include a way to get them back without having to put yourself into a situation that you must be very lucky to succeed in (ie a 1v2, or fighting a boss in a busy server.)

I mean, how is having an item or consumable that allows you to get them back that different than loading up with a bomb lance, 2 stickies and repeatedly jumping into matches and immediately extracting until you spawn on top of the lair? That's a high cost, low risk way to regain chunks.

[ripe basalt]

You can loot trait points which can be spent to buy your HP points back.

[burnt mulch]

don’t you have to do a retaliation kill to loot trait points?

[pliant wren]

You can find them in packets randomly stuck to the walls of compounds, houses, or ruins. But they're rare, they may not spawn at all since you can get traits, hunter XP, or blood line XP all from the same packets, and of course you have to find them first.

[ripe basalt]

Just another option of available ways to get health chunks back

[frosty garnet]

@hybrid aspen, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I suggest getting rid of the bomblance.```

[pliant wren]

True. I enjoy trying to think of new things for the game though.

[spice yacht]

They actually do care, im trying to help someone on reddit and why not both?

[vague patio]

i mean sure

i just think the drops are a bit unimportant

[opaque reef]

@pearl summit and @glass fable yeah, matchmaking is a real problem. i recommend turning sbmm off, as you're ironically more likely to find fair matches that way

[vague patio]

there high likelyhood that you can get them later

[frosty garnet]

@opaque spindle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Has anyone ever discussed a "cripple mechanic"? It seems weird that if a person can be poisoned or choke on smoke they can survive four shots from a shotgun at medium range and still be able to run or shoot back.```

[opaque reef]

@random quartz i too wish my hunter had functioning eyelids.

[random quartz]

There really needs to be a mechanic to defend against flashbangs. Bulwark for explosives/bomb lance, bloodless for dum dums/flachette, salveskin for fire type attacks, mithridatist or antidote for poison, vigilant for traps. There's a means of defense for everything but flashes. The only chance you've got right now is to flash yourself again and hopefully you can land it near the attacker as well.

[opaque reef]

really, the flash should just not blind you if it lands directly behind you or at least the flash should be very weak

the fact that it works no matter which way you are facing is what makes them so strong.

[random quartz]

You're right, I charged a guy today when I heard him prep a flash, he threw it well past me. Still blind for full duration. Without a wall to separate yourself from the flash you're boned with current mechanics. Honestly, I'd be fine with any reasonable solution. I don't have high hopes though...

[burnt mulch]

flashes are dynamites that have no fuse and little warning in exchange for you having to do the kill yourself. If you had to face a flashbang for it to work it would suck. nobody would use it ever.

“but that’s how it is in other games” hunt isn’t other games and other games’ balance doesn’t matter.

[random quartz]

Tell me you abuse cheap tactics without telling me you abuse cheap tactics... Joking.
In the end your statement is on an opinion, you're not the judge alone about what Hunt is or should be. Nor do I need you to tell me what a flash is supposed to be. I know what it is and how they're used in other games. Congrats on asserting your opinion there Mr.Potato.

[pliant wren]

If you make it to where they have to be looking at it, you make them basically useless. If they're in cover, there's no way to know they're looking the way you're throwing it. The purpose of a nerf isn't to make everyone stop using them completely, it's just to make people use it less.

[random quartz]

The conversation here stems from a suggestion I posted for a trait that nullifies a flashbang if you're in darksight when the flash pops. Whether a nerf happens or not in any form, I can use the flashes just the same as everyone else. So if that's the meta, I might as well get some kills with it. Doesn't mean I won't feel a little dirty doing it... but with a name like Syphilis, I'm used to it.

[pliant wren]

Ahh, that's not a bad suggestion, cause you are vulnerable when you do that, and if it costs trait points, then that seems fairly balanced.

That's not a nerf to flashes, it's a buff to hunters. I tend to support buffs much more than nerfs.

[burnt mulch]

i could do without the sarcasm unless you were trying to start a fight somehow.

@steep furnace many developers and games have addressed this complaint which is not quite that simple for many reasons including you dont want the visual design department to work on code. Hunt also already has dedicated servers.

[queen jungle]

@steep furnace Hunt has been using dedicated servers from the very beginning.
Also, the things you mention (skins and netcode) are done by completely different departments

[steep furnace]

Dedicated servers other companies can run outside of the select regions that they decide is ok

[burnt mulch]

thats.. not how that works

you’re talking about region locking

and its not other companies

[rocky orchid]

@pallid sandal why you wanna nerf the avtomat? It is just a niche gun.. i encountered it not very often. It is expensive, has the same issue with ammo like the lebel and if you go close you dying to shotguns anyway.. for 1450$ the gun is in a perfect spot.. like nitro.. dolch.. the guns are good, but expensive and not a guaranteed win, so more nerfs to those guns just they are good in the certain situations or you died once to them and get frustrated is kinda meh

[steep furnace]

@burnt mulch actually i'm not.

OCE servers are on the other side of the country. I'm sitting at 50-60ms ping to the dedicated servers...... for my country.

the other option is asia.

[burnt mulch]

thats not ..

thats not what dedicated servers means

[steep furnace]

both.... have INSANE rubberbanding issues, that no other streamer that has less than 30ms ping experiences.

I understand teh difference between peer to peer gaming, and dedicated servers.

what i want is more servers in more locations.

[burnt mulch]

peer to peer and dedicated are two different uncomparable things

its peer to peer vs server, and dedicated vs cloud vs virtual servers

more servers in more locations is something that can be considered, but it comes with problems, namely cost and that it further splinters the playerbase

[steep furnace]

fine... rather than be annoyed how i get specific about it. Release the binaries for the dedicated servers, so other people OTHER than crytek can host them closer to people playing it.

[pallid sandal]

You might not know the situation in Asia server, but everyone is basically using it right now and I mean everyone (even the new players). I was just thinking that it should be made less beginner friendly so that it's more of a mastery weapon than a crutch as I said in the post. You might have your own view on the weapon, but mine wass shaped by the culture of the server and the disrespectful use of the weapon, so to speak.

[burnt mulch]

thats a terrible idea

[steep furnace]

because i'm sure YOU haven't experienced the rubber banding issues then

TRY and play on the asia server with the worst interconnects.

[burnt mulch]

I’m responding to your feedback, and clarifying/correcting you.

tf you mean

when i tell you that you’re wrong about allocating resources and about what dedicated servers means (which you’re suggesting as a solution), then you’re saying more servers, now you’re saying let people host their own servers

you’re moving the goalposts and I’m telling you why your solutions wont work or it isnt that simple

[steep furnace]

Fair point, let me fix it for you then

There you go.

FIX

the

netcode

[steep furnace]

Overall resources. Money is limited. Fire people in the skin department hire more people working on the netcode.

[queen jungle]

But.. the people in the skins department are the ones making the money to pay those in the netcode department. A company can only work if it balances these things.

[steep furnace]

ah.... I see where i was wrong... game companies couldn't make money before DLC was about... 10-4 rubber ducky.

Let's not forget.... the game already costs $45.... it's not like it's Free to Play or anything right....

[queen jungle]

Online games such as Hunt need a continuous stream of income in order to finance continuing technical support, new content, etc.
That's why most modern games with large multiplayer features have income streams beyond the initial purchase of a game.

[unborn smelt]

Yeah that's a big no

and you can't do it that easily under german law either

which is where crytek is situated

[steep furnace]

And that brings me back to the initial feedback. Release the dedicated server binaries. Reduce costs by not having to run the servers yourself. Australia used to have ISP's run game servers and they were HAPPY to do it. Hell that was a selling point.

[vague patio]

imagine wanting people to get fired to have abit better gaming experience

[steep furnace]

happens all the time. plenty of people have lost their jobs here in Australia for far less mate.

"Cost of doing business"

[unborn smelt]

Crytek is not in australia tho.
We have laws in germany that prevents you from just being fired al willy nilly

[vague patio]

not even stepping down

[steep furnace]

Ok, what is your suggestion to get a better "gaming" experience on a game that you actually like.

i'm all ears.

[steady prism]

I will tell you what...

[unborn smelt]

And even if we did not, i'd vastly prefer they don't just fire loyal employess because they are unluckily a part of a department

[steady prism]

Its none of your business... They are developing the game... They know what they re doing

[unborn smelt]

I mean wider server coverage is a fair suggestion - might not be able to be realized tho as it's costly

[steep furnace]

It's not that costly though!

[unborn smelt]

and before OCE gets a new server - there's is a lot of areas that would get more

like Sout africa whose nearest servers are over 200 ping

some parts of the US have no server closer than 130 ms

some parts of russia have ping over 100 to RU servers

[steep furnace]

Ok, if wider server coverage is such an issue, then why are they not focusing on actually having decent netcode.

[steady prism]

And how do you know they are not?

[unborn smelt]

The netcode is pretty well when i play - no matter if a play EU at 13ms or with a mate in NA at 130ms

[steep furnace]

Honestly getting launched 10 m in the air and rubber banding back when i go near a barrel and losing half your health is great... it does teach me to stay the hell away from barrels

Guess it's my pc then.

[unborn smelt]

the rubberbanding is definetly an issue, however i don't even experience that when i play up to 160 ms ping (that's the highest i sometimes go when playing with one of my 2 canadian mates)

it does get worse but not to the extent you described

do you have a VPN by any chance ?

[steep furnace]

Nope.

Could be an issue with the OCE servers? I guess I can try playing on US West probably the lowest ping outside of Asia/OCE.

[unborn smelt]

because if you get packetloss for some reason, it may be that the server needs to update your position often with some of your packets not reaching it which could amplify the desync and rubberbanding

[steep furnace]

It's a constant issue mind you.

[unborn smelt]

and sometimes the usage of a VPN can make your info being routed diffrently and thus prevent package loss

[steep furnace]

I can't navigate stairs unless It's head first

If it's at any angle going up, rubber band back down to the bottom of the stairs.

[unborn smelt]

Yeah i know the issues with rubberbanding

[steep furnace]

@unborn smelt i'd experience the issue on other games. Hunt is pretty much the only one that has this bad of rubber banding mate.

[unborn smelt]

i have it sometimes even on 13ms ping that's why i'm not denying the existence but was asking questions to maybe find out what may be causeing it, altho i have very little knowlege to actually fix it

I just know that some users had less packet loss and a better connection after using a VPN because it caused their data to be routed diffrently, avoiding a node that dropped packages

But if you don't already use a VPN i don't want to make you buy one either

[pliant wren]

Packets take different routes for different games, and while if may seem like other games don't do it, it may just be because of different routes they take. It may be because of something completely out of their control.

[unborn smelt]

To be fair - if crytek doesn't get the feedback smth may be off with some internet providers they can't go to fix it either

so saying smth is bad is definetly important

We had an issue with "orange" an ISP from france in the past, where just Hunt had very bad ping/packetloss and all the regular culprits coming with it

And ofc to a user it looked like it was a crytek/Hunt issue - but it was the ISP's routing of data

It was still crytek getting in touch with them to get it fixed tho - but they wouldn't have known if not for many people coming out with the same issue

[steep furnace]

LOL no issues on US West....

you know what... nevermind. it's never going to get fixed.

[rocky orchid]

what are these names

[tawny meadow]

I think it's a polish name, i may be wrong tho

[rocky orchid]

i only get those names since couple of updates.. maybe 20% ("normal") names.. i really hate that.. why they just flood the name generator with all the names lists of irish, italian, german, french, spanish a.s.o. names? why there have to be 80% slavic names?!

[tawny meadow]

Because hunters are from all over the world. I don't think the % of slavic name is this high.

[rocky orchid]

but i dont see any italian or irish names f.e. i would prefer more time accurate names.. not just to please people from over the world.. maybe have a drop down menu for pre and last name where you can select it... that would be awesome

[tawny meadow]

Suggest it in #game-ideas

[rocky orchid]

i did already couple days/weeks ago

but i triggers me every time i see only these names in the hunter menu.. fine.. i play legendary 99% of the time.. especially since the selling prices are horrible

[sick anvil]

Curious that people even notice the names. 99.99% i personally do not even know what hunter skin i play how would i notice the neames

[plush ledge]

wait how do you make calls which hunter you downed , where they are or which weapons are on which hunter skin when you don't know the names?

[sick anvil]

By the color of the shirt

or dead there and place ping .

[plush ledge]

like "downed a whiteshirt " and that can be a real whiteshirt or some white legendary?

[sick anvil]

well usually call out white T1 dead . bowler hat ded there . legendaries have their names . Hardon . marshal . felis . unga bunga . boo . lacoste . rachta . billy bob .

[plush ledge]

my bad I thought you don't know the legi names

[sick anvil]

i was referring to T1-3 hunter names the rng pick first last name thing

[plush ledge]

yeah who cares for those

[sick anvil]

according to previous conversation some one is

About half of the legendary roster has a callout that is not their name others i use their names because i have not came up with one but also it does come with the fact those who have unique callouts i encounter far more

[lime tree]

To anyone who needs to hear this: Just because you saw an old gun on Forgotten Weapons doesn't mean you need to suggest it be in the game.

[muted tartan]

all the russians live in the european servers or what

ping abusers, cheaters, 99% russians

play on your servers pls

[lethal oyster]

@late wind could you perhaps elaborate on what you mean by "insane power creep" that has happened recently? Personally, i can't think of any recent addition that could be considered overpowered so what do you mean by that exactly?

[unborn smelt]

Power creep doesn't necessarily mean OP - but for example the pax essentially lost all it's nice to the scottfield

Which means it got left behind due to power creep because all the surrounding pistols got stronger (officer got less recoil a while age and the scotfield got amazing variants near the pax price level)

[late wind]

Power creep is defined as a situation in games (video or otherwise), wherein new content introduces new content that renders old content obsolete.

If you say this isn't happening in Hunt, you're either lying to yourself. Genuienly unaware. Or pretending it's not happening because I specifically said it.

Here's a few examples:

Slugs. Slugs for shotguns make buckshot obsolete, being a straight upgrade. They also make default ammo on the Nitro pointless, forcing you to buy dumdum for the nitro to even make it worth playing.

Dualies: Dualies make shotguns and sawed off rifles pointless because sans a stark few examples, dual pistols are superior in the intended ranges for both classes of weapon.

Specifically the Scottfield. While a little pistol, and not as overpowered as the pocket rifle, it does make several other pistols obsoltete by being overall better. It outperforms the Bornhiem, Officer, and LeMat, for cheaper. And its new variants only push these weapons further into obsolescence.

FMJ ammo is also a good example, as it allows for cheaper weapons to match their more expensive counterparts for overall cheaper. Caldwell conversion FMJ can easily compete and in some situations outperform its medium ammo counterpart, the Pax. Same for the 1876 winnie vs the Centennial. And so on.

Alert trip mines are now able to reliably burn out health chunks.

Finally, the Berthier exists. The highest DPS long ammo rifle in the game. With better sights, ammo economy, and reload than any other rifle in its category, for cheaper than a Lebel. You can even get a scoped version cheaper than a lebel.

This stuff isn't necessarily OP, as @unborn smelt just said. (Though some of it really is). It's that it renders a good chunk of other things completely pointless.

[lethal oyster]

tbh the only one i agree with is the scottfield. The rest is subjective, really

[unborn dagger]

I mean even with the variants of schofield I still feel like using the pax cause it has better muzzle velocity

[lethal oyster]

same plus the cocking animation on the thing really throws me off. can't regain my aim after a shot for the life of me when running scotty

[crisp ivy]

Seriously need to do something about the damn cheaters. I literally just got killed by someone and i was behind a wooden wall and he sniped me

[unborn dagger]

Is this a troll post?

[frosty garnet]

@primal topaz, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

@livid forum BEST IDEEA EVER```

[rain igloo]

so uhm
in quickplay the one with the wellspring died due to fire and now the wellspring cant be picked up anymore

[frosty garnet]

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

allow equipment to be sorted by contraband the same way you can sort by legendary. this way you know what contraband weapons you have access to easier than having to scroll around.```

[frosty garnet]

@sly glacier, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

we need a 2 slot weapon that we can use fanning on. even cooler if theres a 3 slot variant too```

[vague patio]

winfield levering

[unborn dagger]

^

[gentle bramble]

Has anyone other than my group been having really bad ping games lately, it becomes unplayable the entire game especially when near enemies

[spare roost]

I'm glad you described the strength of sniping in this game @open halo. The fact that people aren't punished for leaving with these systems is also annoying.

[empty oasis]

You haven't been able to leave like that since 1.7 went live with Reconnect

[frosty garnet]

@tired tangle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Hi, I play on ps5 and pc, and I wanted to suggest maybe adding the ability to bind any action to any button on controller. I wish I could change the melee button on gunslinger config, so I would be able toelee and aim properly. It's pretty annoying to have to press the r3 button and aim with it at the same time. Maybe toggle voip with r3 and idk darksight w dpad down or whatever.```

[spare roost]

I mean. You can still extract with no penalty except sub 5 mins of time wasted?

[empty oasis]

That's just game mechanics. Changing that would be forcing your decisions on another team just so they fit your play preferences.

It would be the same as saying "well I brought a shotgun this match so everyone should have to push inside buildings hard with their long ammo"or vice versa

[spare roost]

Don't quite understand what you mean overall. Both sentences and how they tie in together.

They are conflicting statements for me also

[empty oasis]

You don't seem to want them to be able to run from spawn to extract. Changing that because you don't like it is basically making others change their game play to suit you

[spare roost]

To suit me? The only way it suits me is I get to interact with more players instead of just vsing AI which can be an issue in lower populated regions such as the one I'm in. I play in a higher elo bracket where people play for KD relentlessly.

"Changing that because you don't like it is basically making others change their game play to suit you"

I am noticing contradiction here. So when you play the game you are happy just to interact with one squad a game just so you can get some hunt dollars at the end of it?

Like people's reasons to play the game are different, sure. Accomplishment is usually given from PvP interaction and some people are literally avoiding it at all costs for the sake of an irrelevant statistic.

[empty oasis]

Wanting to force people to stay in a match because you want more fights is 100% wanting to change their play to suit you. I don't know how to dumb this down anymore than I currently have

You're only noticing a contradiction that you yourself are inventing.

Is bush camping for 1 sniper kill and then extracting bullshit? I think so but it's still a completely valid way to play regardless of how I feel about it

Accomplishment is usually given from PvP interaction

That's you projecting your views onto the entire playerbase who may or may not share those views

avoiding it at all cost for the sake of a irrelevant statistic

Irrelevant for you but if they enjoy chasing that statistic then more power to them

[spare roost]

"You're only noticing a contradiction that you yourself are inventing."
No,
Leaving a game because of the sounds of guns or time of day is also affecting the way others play the game also.

Wanting to force people to stay in a match because you want more fights is 100% wanting to change their play to suit you.

It suits me, doesnt mean im forcing it onto others.

What is the point of playing if you want to just cherry pick the best scenario for you the whole time

and not actually play the game

[empty oasis]

You seem to want to change them being able to extract. I don't know how, besides blind ignorance, that you can't see how that's forcing a gameplay change on them that they don't want just because you find it annoying

[empty oasis]

What is the point of playing if you want to just cherry pick the best scenario for you the whole time

For you maybe there is no point. For them maybe that's how they enjoy it

It's taking you a awful long time and typing to come up with a not very good rebuttal

[spare roost]

I'm getting the same vibe, don't worry.

My argument is ruining the integrity of the game without punishment is not good. A lot of people in other games can attest to that and it is enforced as such. Mind you the other games are not the same as Hunt and rightfully so. Even if someone leaves from the enemy team in a MOBA, FPS, any PvP game for that matter you get punished in many ways, queue bans (likely unnecessary), economy reductions, exp reductions etc. Because if one person leaves it ruins the integrity of the game whether you win or lose. There is no balanced accomplished that is consistent across all games played. I may not be explaining it well, but claiming ignorance is correct here. You aren't necessarily wrong, and you might be on the safer side of the argument.

So I guess the real question is. What's the point of playing Hunt?

[spare roost]

Really can't tell if you are trolling lmfao

[empty oasis]

About 70/30%

[spare roost]

All I am saying is Hunt Showdown is not a good PvE game. There are no alternative gamemodes and the contract system is not functioning to choose what you want to play.

So there has to be compromise

[empty oasis]

Should the people who stay the entire match, crouch walk everywhere, and never engage anyone but only rat dead hunter weapons be punished?

Because they have about the same impact as people extracting early

[spare roost]

I mean not really, you can still interact with them at least if they are in the game.

Because they have about the same impact as people extracting early
I think that is a bit of an overstatement, even for me

[empty oasis]

To me, I look at early extraction like another team killed then in a spawn battle. I would have had no chance to fight them anyhow so why worry

[spare roost]

There are no bodies to loot, fuck your Vulture perk. There is one argument.
No dark sight to loot for, not as important as there are less people.
Blood Bonds are gained from killing players and the max being around 3 for 9 players killed, now reduced in potential earnings.

Not my views, but some points that can align with how people want to play.

Not the strongest argument but some points were made

[empty oasis]

You spawn at Salter's

They spawn at wolfshead and die to a double spawn team. Bounty is at Lawson and closest extract is Godard

How is that any different? You aren't going to wolfshead to find the bodies from a fight you heard 20 mins ago. You never had a chance to fight them so you really didn't lose out on any potential earnings

[spare roost]

Well according to a previous argument of yours. What is stopping me from playing the game the way I want to and go and find the bodies? After all I have 60 MINUTES to go find them? You are implying that people play like you.

[frosty garnet]

@frosty fiber, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

linux```

[empty oasis]

Nice strawman. You're trying to completely circle your own initial argument to refute the facts I've laid out.

If you have anymore relevant points to discuss then by all means please do. Otherwise have fun at being angry with people for playing their own way

[spare roost]

I'm not being angry. I aligning myself with views that are similar to yours and now you are responding like this? Good luck is all I am going to type. You can be upset about me contrasting that question with how I have been interpreting your arguments. Although your comments were a lot ruder than mine to be fair. Claiming ignorance and making statements about durations of responses are quite distasteful also.

[empty oasis]

shrugs
I'm am asshole. Sue me

[outer jungle]

so getting steel eyed character for the drops ..

what about billy story ? i thought this is what I'm gonna get !

will we ever have the chance to get him ? as a new players ?

[plush ledge]

later this year

[lethal silo]

@surreal python that is a very beautiful designed holster and yeah I have also thought about why don't we have actual gun holsters on Hunters and those their have don't use them but at the same time I think it would take a lot of work to make a holster work in the model

[plush ledge]

at least that's what they said in the dev stream

[rocky orchid]

yes had few matches...

[frosty garnet]

@fierce zenith, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

One thing in the menus regularly annoys me - her is my suggestion:
Lets say you unequip a hunters weapons to change your loadout (i regularly do this, i have a loadout fit for new hunters and after the first extraction i reequip). So then you browse through your weapons and see something you want right now, selected is slot 2 (usually my pistol or utility weapon slot). I equip the winfield (or whatever) and think "ah okay, i want that in slot 1 - my mistake. So i switch to slot 1 and the entire list resets to the top and i need to rebrowse all the weapons. 
Sorry for the long description but why not keep my weaponselection in die weaponcategory and let me switch slots. The "reshuffle" feels really unneccessary and is a bit annoying.  This should be a really easy "fix" if you consider it worthwile.
Thanks for the great game, i'm really enjoying myself ❤️```

[gentle bramble]

one in every five games it seems, I load into the match with the red squares already up while having normalish ping, the match continues and as we get closer to hunters everyone's ping goes wonky. ours and the enemies, one match I didn't have control of my hunter for five minutes before I finally disconnected. In that match my teammates made a deal with the bounty carriers to go our separate ways because it was unplayable for everyone involved

[rocky orchid]

well i had few shotgun matches where i was 100% on the target at close distance and they didnt die (terminus, specter,...)

sometimes shotguns (except rival and romero) seems to be way too inconsistent ..

i would favor a price raise of the rival from 200 to 400, as the slug-upgrade would go to 600 (price of a crown)

[plush ledge]

So is any rifle but the Winfield which needs fmj for that

[rocky orchid]

no i am not clipping my games.. dont have the time to set this up..

rival is never inconsistent to me.. i just think it is to cheap for its performance with slugs..

terminus is useless without slugs.. specter often need two tap.. there is no difference between 8m or 15m..

romero seems to be the only shotgun which always kills

[vague patio]

tbh, slugs isnt a problem in range but that it is both strong upclose with ohk further then buck and having teotsp potential

[plush ledge]

Shotguns with or without slugs are maybe the reason for like 10% of my deaths and I push in. I don't get why people complain about slugs all the time

When you die at 50m to slugs any rifle would have done the job and it would be easier for the dude to use anything else but slugs

[vague patio]

no

[ruby magnet]

I don't mind slugs on the Romero, the specter, the terminus (for the one psycho that plays that) or lemat.
But how damn effective it is on the rival I am not ok with.

And thats mostly because of the speed of the follow up shot.

That's a rival problem. Not a slug problem

But one does empower the other and that makes it one of the most common slug weapon combos seen in the games.

[vague patio]

slugs be fine if they weren't on rival and crown

[ruby magnet]

My biggest gripe about the slug ammo itself regardless of weapon its loaded in: its a straight upgrade untill you're within 2 meters of buckshot. It still pens. It pushes lethality of the shotgun way out and only when people are right next to you do you risk a shoulder shot or stomach shot and not one shot kill where buckshot will

All for the downside of only being more expensive and money is not an issue unless you play like you want it to be in Hunt

[rocky orchid]

rival + slugs should be at a price of crown.. just for balance.. and not that every second hunter who likes aggressive pushs loads this 400$ loadout

[random quartz]

That's not patronizing at all. Never thought to point my gun at the enemy in all my time gaming since the original Wolfenstein. Although aiming was easier without a Y axis....

[pallid idol]

Agreed
The rival always has been a bit muddy balance-wise
Slugs exacerbate this

[random quartz]

Who said anything about a hit marker? You've missed the point entirely, doubtful it's the first time. Trolls gotta troll, you do you. Later fool.

[frosty garnet]

@long compass, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Idea: slight quick play rework. Option #1

Details: most quick play games devolve into layer camping with shotguns. Here is the first of two possible ways that I think quick play can be changed to get away from that, without totally changing the gamemode.

As the wellspring holder, if there are enemy hunters within a certain distance of you, you will not absorb energy. Either run away from them, or confront and kill them.```

[random quartz]

Sure, I shot. Yes, I got a hit marker center gut/chest. He was outside range for it to be a kill and I'm ok with that. Then I immediately fall over dead. He's literally standing in the doorway and I'm at the opposite end of the room, this I find unacceptable. I get it, this is a severe case of desync and he was already on top of me on his client. He was the last enemy alive in the compound, I had the bountie and had just scanned. My teammate got him afterward.

Nope.

Take my word for it or don't, it makes no difference to me. I know what I saw and I don't have any need to play your little game of "I know better". I'm out, have a nice night.

[steep furnace]

@unborn smelt played a fair few games on US West. The game is FAR more stable and consistent on that server. Whatever crytek has done with the OCE servers... they are broken.

PS the route from Western Australia to US West, passes through the exact same route to OCE except for the last mile, where it deviates to go to US West instead of the OCE server.

[unborn smelt]

You in OCE too ?

Just wanted to make sure

[steep furnace]

I'm getting 200ms ping to US West servers, and I get nowhere near the same rubberbanding

and again @unborn smelt the route from Perth to Sydney... is used for Perth to US West.

[unborn smelt]

okay - that's interesting to know, i'll be sure to pass that on to the team

[steep furnace]

do we know the IP of the OCE servers and the US West servers?

i'll run a traceroute for both and run a 24 hour ping test

i COULD wireshark it.... but that's time i don't have considering i'm playing the game! 😛

would be easier if someone just supplied that info to me 😉

@queen jungle i'd just use my router to get the ip endpoint from the firewall table.

[unborn smelt]

sadly i don't know it, i'll need to ask for the info myself and ask if it's okay to share

[drifting pilot]

Opinions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC7wyz7f47w

[unborn smelt]

In the vid he plays solo in a gamemode designed for teams.
He is at a massive disadvantage when picking up the bounty (or as he put it, doing the objective) because you broadcast to the entire map that you're a solo as well as every step you take. For a solo this is an issue more often than not - but for a team it's not that big of a deal, because you're on equal footing with enemy teams unlike a solo and you can use the full 10 sec of DSB to get enemy locations in return to broadcasting yours. You can also use the bounty to leverage fights in your favor as a team by threatening to extract the map in one way or another forcing enemies to engage or move into a position that enables them to engage later, where as solos can only take one token and have to leave the other one for somebody else to pick up.

In the video he has in the backfround thats why hes hesitant to pick up the bounty, but had he just picked it up it would have been an easy extract or double bounty as he could have seen the camper with DSB.

On top of all that - there is a solo mode that completely alleviates the issue, i present to you Quickplay.
QP is the result of them tackling those exact issues as they arose during a solo only queue event, and even more pronounced than they are in BH. The objective is enforced (Just not the way many people wish that others are forced to walk into their camping rifle) and risk for playing aggressive is absolutely zero.
The only thing i could see them doing is allowing a seperate queue for team based quickplay seperate from the solo only queue.

[native lodge]

also camping is more of an issue of compound design imo

crematorium being the perfect example

it would have been a lot harder to lock down other compounds as solo with bow

[pallid idol]

Personally I find it odd that bounties don't give a warning like clues when they are laying on the floor

[karmic ivy]

Nice explanation, I saved that quote in case I need to explain to someone else what is going on in this video. Thank you for putting that together.

I just recently learned the detail's of the "solo" experiment. That was interesting, and I am impressed that the Hunt team was so successful in their experimentation and implementation in areas like that. Some games like Survarium had a similar path of experimentation, but did not have the success and never did find their "sweet spot" in the game world.

The more I learn the more impressed I am with the Hunt team, my hat goes off to you all. Great work.

[frosty garnet]

@restive moth, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

:-: Title: New Legendary Hunter

Detail: A Clown Hunter Skin of a Clown who has lost his joy and happiness due to the affects of the Bayou. Now the Clown only seeks joy in Killing Monster and Hunters to bring a smile on His Face..  

What does the community this of this Idea.? Good Skin Idea.?```

[queen jungle]

A possibility to name our saved equipments would be nice like in COD 4.

[empty oasis]

You can already name loadouts

[queen jungle]

Thanks

[pliant wren]

There's a reason Huuge has been making content as long as he has yet still hasn't got that many followers. He acts like he knows what he's talking about, but he's demonstrably wrong about those things quite often. Tries to make contrarian hot take videos that just happen to get uploaded soon after bigger Hunt Youtubers have made videos on the same subject.

That said, if he's doing the production on his videos, the intros and the thumbnails, he should look into graphic design jobs cause that aspect of his videos is quite nice.

[drifting pilot]

Not a fan of the guy just stumbled across the video and was actually surprised by how many people agreed in the comments that's why I bothered asking your opinions.

[pliant wren]

Meant no offense to you, I've just seen about a dozen of his videos and he made real bad conclusions in each one.

[vague patio]

i honestlythinkhe just utilises thenegative feelings of people

[drifting pilot]

No worries none taken

[pliant wren]

Dude could be making alot more money doing graphic design for websites and businesses, if he does his own production.