feedback-discussion

[hardy coral]

It literally wouldn't effect console in this case since the spear is the console bit.

[vital fractal]

It’s just how it goes in this game, they balance to try to make it even but the differences and proposed differences make it to where either population will have differing ideas of balance

[vital fractal]

Changing it or not wouldn’t really, hence why I’m against it- it’s a waste of resources

But

[hardy coral]

Nobody asked for bulwark stopping bomb lance yet they made it so to nerf explosive ammo then ran with it.

[hardy coral]

How is it a waste to change 1 value

[vital fractal]

See how slow it is to make any change

And any change requires re cert

Which is a lot of money

[hardy coral]

You do it with another update DUH

Oh yeah time for the bulwark update lmao

[vital fractal]

Lovely, and the effect on game is so minimally noticed- why put the effort in?

Especially ESPECIALLY

when you have ammos to do the job you already have

[hardy coral]

Yeah just scrap the engine update, effort. No effort required for this game.

Remove everything but mosin and dolch to lower stress on the game servers etc

[vital fractal]

Amazing reading comprehension

And application

[mild steppe]

Dude that is non-sense

[vital fractal]

You were the scope guy from earlier

So I shouldn’t be surprised

Taco saying a trait shouldn’t affect it, fine I understand that

[mild steppe]

It's like comparing apples to bricks

[vital fractal]

But considering it’s obviously meant to be utility only

That would mean the correct change would be never ohks

Trait or not

[hardy coral]

If it was meant to be utility only that means it'd never one shot.

[vital fractal]

I mean, you can also gather that from how it’s implemented

Look at the sticky for example

It’ll ohk

But it’s clearly a utility pick not PvP pick

[hardy coral]

They changed it to make it stronger in PvP.

[vital fractal]

And is it still not a utility mainly pick?

Spectrum exists, but doesn’t ignore the fact there is a side to the spectrum

[rotund obsidian]

it'll still work in pvp though

imagine if bulwark just made a big dynamite bundle only deal 149 damage maximum

[vital fractal]

Whether the bomb one hits or not it still works in PvP too

[hardy coral]

It doesn't

[rotund obsidian]

It genuinely doesn't

[hardy coral]

If you don't one shot with it the thing is trash.

[vital fractal]

Just cause you can’t ohk doesn’t mean it doesn’t work… especially if a bar is missing

[rotund obsidian]

I might be wrong here but i think bulwark actually makes it deal as low as around 80ish damage

on legshots

[vital fractal]

Leg shots

[hardy coral]

If a bar is missing you'd prefer to have anything doing 125 or more and just click on them.

[rotund obsidian]

Leg shots which would be a oneshot without bulwark

[vital fractal]

Slugs don’t ohk in arms or legs at 1 m

Are they useless?

No

Again, you have two ammos that are already for PvP

Why does the bomb utility have to as well?

[hardy coral]

There is no perk making slugs not one shot with a perfect hit lmao

[rotund obsidian]

It's not just utility. It used to be the only ammo in that thing man. It's just bad. The only reason it's a "utility ammo" now is because it fucking sucks

[vital fractal]

Yeah but they have that trait intrinsically and it was being argued that trait makes the ammo trash anyways

Side convo sure but still addressing it

[vital fractal]

Used to be

But it isn’t anymore

Avto used to have 30 spare rounds

How is that relevant

[rotund obsidian]

Was it still a utility ammo before?

[vital fractal]

It USED to

[vital fractal]

Yes

Literally yes

It was then

It definitely still is now

[hardy coral]

It was a mix. Nitro shouldn't one shot cus it does high boss damage then.

Random one shot vs players heavily based on positioning

[vital fractal]

It literally has a niche for it

[hardy coral]

And good vs bosses otherwise.

[rotund obsidian]

Make adrenaline block a nitro oneshot then, fuck it

[vital fractal]

As being the “power weapon”

Dead just stop with your red herrings and straw man’s lmao

[rotund obsidian]

Make blade seer stop headshots

[hardy coral]

And the explosive bolt doesn't have the niche of killing players in one hit?

[vital fractal]

Taco is so far the only one making a decent point lmao and then he dropped the blade seer comment

[rotund obsidian]

I'm just saying it's ridiculous for it to be inconsistent like that

[vital fractal]

Not when it was clearly meant to add on to the best melee in the game, as a PVE ammo

I mean

[hardy coral]

Hunt is the consistency game and these perks ruin that.

Making swathes of the kit poor choices outside of regular balancing.

[vital fractal]

Ok now that’s funny

Hunt being a consistent game

[hardy coral]

It is, all the damage is

[vital fractal]

👀

Alright then folks

[hardy coral]

Bullets fly perfectly flat and straight

[vital fractal]

We clearly can’t come to a conclusion

And bro, if you think hunt is consistent then- well that’s what you think

[rotund obsidian]

Hell, i'd be more okay with it if they separated the bomblance resistance into its own trait.

[vital fractal]

Then what would the-

[rotund obsidian]

Would anyone take a trait specifically to resist bomblance oneshots?

[vital fractal]

Alright gg guys

[rotund obsidian]

again, it's a random side effect of a trait that people take for other reasons.

[hardy coral]

Hunt is a consistent game lol. The shooting with non shotties and fanning is as consistent as it can get.

[crisp trellis]

@vital fractal @wind ruin @queen jungle Why downvote? can you explain? let's discuss

[queen jungle]

Two bounty matches are more dynamic than single bounty since people may choose to go for different objectives and offer more options (like getting one bounty and leaving).

[vital fractal]

Even by cryteks standards the game isn’t always about always being in a fight or constantly having PvP or player interactions

Besides two bounties allows players a choice to engage in PvP if they already have the bounty and won a fight or to be more passive and go for a less traveled boss

It allows choice, which is what hunt is about

Risk vs Reward, choice of path

People want this game to always be about PvP and PvP alone, and if you’re not killing you’re not playing

And that misses the point

I think someone even once said the developers wanted fighting to be considered uncommon

[crisp trellis]

Wish they could add fkin PvE only

for people like you

so you could just kill zombies and be happy with it

🙂

[vital fractal]

I mean I’ve asked

[queen jungle]

PvP is fun, but killing others is not the goal of the game at all

Primary objective of Hunt is to extract the bounty, secondary objective is to try and stay the fuck alive.

Death it literally the worst outcome of any Hunt match

[crisp trellis]

I'm not asking if you have single bounty to wait for people

if there is ANOTHER bounty who is heading to you - why you have to leave?

ffs

why?

sometimes I pass 90% of the map

they are at compound

and they leave till I get near

[vital fractal]

Because death is the worst outcome

[crisp trellis]

but you can get twice as much XP and money

right?

[queen jungle]

For example you may have already used a lot of your consumables fighting for the first boss or even lost health bars after banishment.
Fighting when disadvantaged like this is foolish.

[crisp trellis]

I just need OPTION to disable 2 boss... what is here bad?

so I could have OPTION

you could play 2 boss always

no one tells you to play single boss

why downvote?

I love more action and PvP

and hate roaming on the map like fkin zombie

[queen jungle]

It would split the small player base between those playing single boss only and those wanting a chance at double boss and a split player base like this would cause matchmaking to get worse.

[crisp trellis]

oh really?

2 boss already SPLITS

12 people

by half

[queen jungle]

As per the devs, PvP is meant to be rare (but all the more intense) in Hunt. This isn't a BR where you constantly fight others until only one team prevails.

[crisp trellis]

I know what is this game, 3K hours

game is dead like this

always sunny

night once in 10 match

no other conditions, no croc

no single boss

they literally killing their own game...

[queen jungle]

I agree on the conditions other than sunny weather. But I disagree on single vs double bounty ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[crisp trellis]

Game isn't using 50% of content

what a shame

dude, I get it

you like 2 boss, I like one boss

I mean I HATE 2 boss maps

so there should be OPTION

so I could chose what I want right?

and what you want

[queen jungle]

Oh and Hunt obviously died on 22 February 2018, when they let a failure like me into the game

[queen jungle]

If Hunt had 100k players at the same time, I wouldn't be against your idea, options are good. But it's a small player base and some people already complain about matchmaking. It would just get worse if you split the player base 😐

[lean estuary]

I would love a few more night time map conditions, like a low light, pre-dawn darkness

[crisp trellis]

I love every single condition this game offers

darker and gruesome - better

Grew up playing Silent Hill and Resident Evil games. This game is perfect game for me. Miss fog and rain so much

[ebon meteor]

you don't have a cheater problem? But that definitely sounds different

[crystal plume]

Which part indicated cheaters being a "problem"?

If you are referring to where Blakki says "every weeks hundreds of accounts are perma banned" that does not indicate cheaters being a problem, it's not hundreds of players out of the concurrent amount of players that we can see, it's hundreds of players out of the amount of unique players playing the game during a week which is a much higher number than the 15k or so average players we can see on steam charts/steamdb

The amount of unique players each week is well over 100k at the very least although likely even higher, those numbers aren't public though so cannot give the exact amounts

[queen jungle]

And them banning hundreds of players indicates they are pretty successful at identifying and getting rid of cheaters. It's positive, not negative.

[queen jungle]

#game-ideas message did you mean charms? @plucky bridge if so, made a suggestion for this before, hoping it does get added.

[blissful jackal]

is this a troll

having it not be shitty ash bloom or rain or fog all the time is so nice

being able to actually see enemies

[floral nova]

@crisp pilot #game-ideas message this is simply not possible, since it would mean to maintain 2 UIs

[vital fractal]

Sunny is so boring

Like to have some personality to the environment

[lean estuary]

Sunny is just another (key) part of the personality of the game - that southern afternoon, late day heat feeling (with no one around on abandoned farms except gruesome monsters and rotting livestock) is a special kind of creeping dread

(And I know we’re all used to it from playing for so long, but, c’mon.)

@hot vigil thank you for making suggestions for more quality features, though

[vital fractal]

I know, I’m just saying- sunny all the time is so… anti-horror vibes

And boring

[lean estuary]

That’s what I’m saying, it’s not really anti-horror (because it IS scary in the context) But having the variety is better

[fathom rampart]

I do remember when I first saw Hunt gameplay demo back in 2017? The sort of mundane sunny afternoon vibe mixed with the horrible situation made it feel more grounded and awful to me

more ‘real’

really felt like being on a farm where something terrible was going on. It’s a special, unique feeling to hunt

(I’m not against night, I like it too)

[hot vigil]

Also, we are in Louisiana, so high moisty tempatures are part of the package

[fathom rampart]

I kind of think they should add idle animations of the hunters wiping sweat off their faces (but I understand any motion might give away your position, so…)

[lean estuary]

if you know what it feels like in real life, you can see how the art in the game communicates that feeling so well. The heat and humidity makes everything uncomfortable and claustrophobic even out in the open

And magnifies the stench inside barns, etc.

[hot vigil]

Yeah

Lmao imagine getting blurry vision as soon you enter any barns with decayed corpses in it lol

[lean estuary]

Plague Doctor has the right idea

[hot vigil]

Cain too, you cannot be affected by the stench, if you are the stench.

[vital fractal]

God some of these hunters gotta stink so good

[lean estuary]

Haha yeah Cain is also too busy seeing auras and hearing whispers from beyond, to pay attention to bad smells

[vital fractal]

Why is this a pic

Why do you have it saved

[hot vigil]

Not saved, just sawy with searching up :V

[thin remnant]

accurate list ngl

[vital fractal]

Mama Maye not on that list as the best tier to smell, not a good list tbh

[hot vigil]

Think there needs to be a "sweaty" category tho.
Like Gunrunner would be sweaty, but still nicer smelling than a stinky/smelly person.

[vital fractal]

I think if that’s the case then you can rearrange some of it

[hot vigil]

Yeah, some day I'll make my own list 😌

[vital fractal]

“Enough of the sniff test… time for the Taste Test.”

[hot vigil]

Lulu, tastes of Sophia

[vital fractal]

👀

[humble quest]

Lmao

[sleek oasis]

@cosmic kettle check dm's for a response to your suggestion

[hot vigil]

👀

[sleek oasis]

all I did was send him the link to huntplayers mmr graph and a screenshot of old graphs

[hot vigil]

ah fair nuff

[empty oasis]

@safe mountain Your post has been removed due to "No troll/low effort ideas are allowed. "
If you would like to post feedback please go to the ⁠feedback Channel

[thin remnant]

#game-ideas message bro this is awesome i love it i imagine the animations would be pretty clunky and wooden feeling

the mannequin could also be used as portable cover somewhat

@bold valley

I do have one question, how would it decide what hunter to link to?

maybe there could also be a tool or consumable you can bring that's like a small "doll" that basically functions as a smaller mannequin you can pick up
Maybe the mannequin would even mimic the grunts and stuff from the hunter it's mimicking with strange distorted sounds

[flat sandal]

@thin remnant Really? Certain situations or locations?

I'm just curious. sounds fun, I never had that happen

Do you take damage?

[thin remnant]

you talking about the quick fall gitch thing?

you take the same amount of fall damage you'd take regularly iirc

it can be useful and fun for movement sometimes ngl but i'd say the negatives outweigh the positives

especially seeing as it's clearly unintentional

[flat sandal]

how do you make it happen?

[idle folio]

#game-ideas message The consequence of such a trait would be people sitting in compounds constantly using dark sight waiting for any hint of player sound, which definitely seems like the wrong community habit to create. Favors passivity over activity.

[empty oasis]

@thin remnant #game-ideas message

Darksight already has a pretty loud sound cue imo

[thin remnant]

thats true tbh, imma dislike it LOL

maybe strenghthen its effects but it only works with ds boost?
eh but thats useless cause you got wallhacks anyway

[thin remnant]

yeah ik

i disliked it btw

I honestly have chronic too many ideas disease and I feel the need to share every one

[empty oasis]

Ah, i see now that you mean a hightened hering in darksight. Thats still not something I think would be beneficial for the game

[empty oasis]

Why would you dislike your own post?

[thin remnant]

because i thought about it and dont actually like it

deleting it would just be petty lol

[empty oasis]

Then, maybe, remove it?

[thin remnant]

Find a decent height with a slidey object next to it like a tilted metal sheet

then try to walk off at a certain angle onto the slidey object

it can be tricky to do intentionally

[flat sandal]

k thanks, I will pay attention to it. sometimes the movement gets glitchy, perhaps it just never registered with me

[thin remnant]

idk if you need to be laggy for it to work

but i think ive been at like 40 ping before and it still happen

[thin remnant]

ok yeah the coin flip said i should

[flat sandal]

btw, to your other suggestion. are you doing rotjaw if shes there?

I think she needs some better reward, like a guaranteed burn trait

cheat death even

but it should perhaps not be just a drop of these weird skulls

[thin remnant]

rotjaw should probably drop 3 bounty tokens in trios imo

and a guaranteed trait is a neat idea too

[flat sandal]

bounty token is a beacon on your head, vision and money

not sure I would do it. perhaps if money mattered

[thin remnant]

im a firm believer that they should make money a more important mechanic

[flat sandal]

oh 100%

[thin remnant]

things should cost like 2x or 1.5x the amount they do now

[flat sandal]

yes, it just needs a solution for "bad" players, but I'm sure there is one

[thin remnant]

ive also always thought gun sales could be cool

if you wanna be as cheap as possible buy the weapons that are on sale

wait there is a solution for bad players

free hunters

[flat sandal]

yeah or fluctuating prices. like supply and demand to auto balance meta weapons

[thin remnant]

they all come equipped with medkit and a melee tool now right so theyre pretty good

[thin remnant]

^ could be cool for sure

[flat sandal]

2 months till the new era, we'll see if "cool" stuff happens after that

[thin remnant]

some guns dont need a price increase though, drilling is way too expensive

[flat sandal]

can't really tell, after all this time I still don't know how much I get out of a match cause I have 0 reason to care

and it's not cause I am too good

maybe I should run dolch every match I can

[bold valley]

figure that it's first come first serve. if someone's using it, you can't

or maybe if two people are using it, it just freaks out

from double input

[thin remnant]

? I thought it was like
You used the trait and it mimicked an enemy hunter to give you info
How does it decide what enemy to mimic

or is that not how it works

[bold valley]

oh, the idea was that you can move the mannequins around and deploy them where you want. then if you have the trait, focusing darksight on the mannequin links you to it, then so long as you keep darksight on, the mannequin will mimic your animations while standing mostly in place

so you can stick em near windows to try and bait snipers

that sort of thing

[thin remnant]

Honestly I prefer my interpretation lol

[terse steeple]

@all south africans

https://chng.it/hNNvWVbp4G

[plucky bridge]

Yes

[crystal plume]

@abstract crystal I had to remove your post since the channel is for suggestions regarding changes/additions to the game 😄

You can post about what worked for you regarding crashes in #troubleshooting

[abstract crystal]

ah thank you

just had to do some outreach after I made a breakthrough

[abstract crystal]

is it possible to PM me the deleted text post?

so I can repost in troubleshooting?

honeslty imo discord mods in general should have the ability to "reloace" posts, but that's something totally different

[crystal plume]

Title: Suggestion for those that frequently crash on match load or on match end.

Description: Update your BIOS or MOBO chipset. Only thing that's worked for me after 3 months+ of pain on randomly crashing.

i have no where else to put this, but I hope it reaches those who are affected by consistent crashing. In my last 16+ hours of on and off stress testing, this appears to have worked the best

[thin remnant]

#game-ideas message bro big bars are useful

[abstract crystal]

thank you

[thin remnant]

my go-to bar setup is big small small big

so i can tank teeny tiny amounts of fall damage, grunt damage etc without losing an entire bar

[crystal plume]

Why would you do that to yourself One down and you're at 100hp

[thin remnant]

losing just a small bar is a massive loss with the meta weapons rn

[thin remnant]

Cause it's harder for it to go down

and most guns used nowadays do 125+ damage

[crystal plume]

At their optimal range and hitting optimal body parts

[abstract crystal]

ah a somewhat common "health bar loadout"

[crystal plume]

People hit limbs and are outside the max damage range quite often

[abstract crystal]

problem generally lies in, if you go down, now you're vulnerable to many more weapons oneshot

[thin remnant]

fair enough

eh i just dont like having to heal after taking a tiny hit of damage

[abstract crystal]

however it does cost time, obvi

[thin remnant]

i dont find myself getting downed often enough for it to matter

[queen jungle]

Big bar on the end is brutal if you go down yeah, you’re vulnerable to most weapons with a single tap then.

[crystal plume]

Also the amount of times I've been saved by having a small bar and being downed and the enemy having krag and not being able to down me has been surprising

[abstract crystal]

lol

[thin remnant]

people actually use krag? I thought i was the only one

[abstract crystal]

dont diss the krag like that :)

[thin remnant]

krag best gun

[abstract crystal]

mako should be krag dmg imo

for the same type of "free reload cost" thats why

everything before mako couldn't kill (a once small bar downed hunter) without bolt reload or bulletgrubber

sparks obvi exception, but reload time made sense as compensation

[thin remnant]

hey don't forget my babies springfield and martini

[abstract crystal]

lol springfiled is legit the worst gun since dumdum expansion to cent

[thin remnant]

blocked

[abstract crystal]

besides price

[thin remnant]

blocked

[abstract crystal]

hahahhahaah

[thin remnant]

Springfield is good if you can hit head

also i really like the compact and dumdum ammo

[abstract crystal]

same with winnie c

[thin remnant]

dumdum ammo on a rifle goes crazy

[abstract crystal]

right, if it's repeating

like...

say the cent

dumdum on rifle should be drilling and springfield

to give those guns that particular value

[thin remnant]

Springfield has worse damage but fast reload

Martini has medium damage and reload

Sparks has best damage but slow reload

Plus they all have different ammo types

[abstract crystal]

drilling and cent crush springfield wif dumdum is involved

[thin remnant]

All good in different ways

[abstract crystal]

if just medium ammo tlak, yeah

your points stand

but since cent has med bleed, it invalidates springfield at that price imo

[thin remnant]

I like the amount of pressure Springfield dumdum applies because the high damage encourages them to stop bleeding at which point I go in with my secondary

[abstract crystal]

my point is why take springfiled if cent bleed is just as fast with ironeye

[thin remnant]

High damage compared to multi shot rifles that is

[abstract crystal]

for not that much higher a price

PLUS the shite levering

[thin remnant]

I mean you can look at the stats to answer that question

[abstract crystal]

2-3 cent shots > 2 max springfiled shots

time wise

iron eye

levering

etc

it's just imba, unless you bring in cost, in which case cost is still irrelevant

[thin remnant]

Can centy carry multiple ammo types btw genuine question

Also Springfield has some of the best ammo capacity in the game imo

[abstract crystal]

hell, even the scotty precision beats pringfield for range/bleed potential

[thin remnant]

Idk I'm not at my computer rn but you can go ingame and compare stats, I'm sure there's differences

[abstract crystal]

ammo capacity doenst necessarily == shots downrange potential over time

[thin remnant]

Not to mention the most important "stat": feel

[abstract crystal]

hey sure, love your gun

I just think it's inferior as far as bleed ammo goes

[thin remnant]

Yes I will

[abstract crystal]

;)

my arguement is purely on bleed ammo

[thin remnant]

I will hand feed it and rock it to sleep every night thank you very much

[abstract crystal]

as I will the centy

insane oppression with bleed and ironeye

[thin remnant]

I like to take two different ammo types with springy

Anyways bye bye
Good night depending on where you live

[abstract crystal]

high v vs... ?

[thin remnant]

What

[abstract crystal]

eh I find springfield to be the literal worst weapon in the game right now

I had a friend and me try it for 2 days straight to see if it was as good as it was

outclassed frequently

high v = high velocity

night if you have to, just making the point

[thin remnant]

Yeah but wdym vs

[abstract crystal]

what other ammot types

for that reload?

centy has all the same

[thin remnant]

Nighty night

[abstract crystal]

yah peace

[rustic timber]

@abstract crystal The cheapest weapon is the worst weapon in hunt? I am stunned!

[blissful jackal]

Springfield isn't the worst weapon lol it's still good. It's viable and cheap. It's there as a budget option.

[rustic timber]

I like it with High Velocity ammo. But it was better back in the days of quick swapping. Again, if the medium ammo didn't have such an enormous damage droppoff by distance, it would be wonderful.

[hot vigil]

Sure, but it sadly still leagues worse than other cheap alternatives.
Besides as the game is rn, the biggest money sink is tools/consumables.

So having a cheap weapons doesn't really help that much.

[blissful jackal]

Consumes are expensive, but when I'm buying mosin Spitz and uppcut every loadout it's just a percentage of my cost.

If I have not been playing well I run cheaper guns

It does help in terms of money.

[rotund obsidian]

I do wish special ammo was priced per-weapon, not by the type. half explosive on the springfield costs more than the gun itself

[hot vigil]

That is also going from one extremity to another.
Besides running those guns actively increases your odds of winning.
Running a Springy decreases your odds of winning lol

Again, I don't mind cheap weapons in Hunt, but I still think there should be a reason to run something beyond "it is cheap".

Vetterli sure is about double thet prize of a Springfield, but man that gun gives you so many more options in a fight.

[blissful jackal]

Yes but I'm saying running cheap guns is effective for saving money

[hot vigil]

Except when they become a detriment for success

[blissful jackal]

I can run like 5 loudouts for the price of one good loudout,

Is springfield harder to win with than meta? For sure, but for the cost of a meta loudout I can easily get a win with the chances allotted by price cost

Price difference

[hot vigil]

But you can also run 5 vetterlis for the same price?

Unless you run Springfield without any custom ammo?

[vital fractal]

I mean, Springfield is just niche imo

With dum dums it’s pretty damn effective and allows for the teaching of staying a little ways back and rotating

Vetterli is a bit overtuned, I’ve always held this opinion and is what messes up the balance of medium ammo rifles as it sits

I’ve held this opinion since I’ve learnt of the vetterli

Be it the Stats, Custom Ammo, or Variants

It’s kinda all just wrong

Even the cost is a bit low

I may go as far to say the Vetterli is a proof/mascot of the failure of weapon balancing that exists in hunt

And the the Schofield is for pistols 💀

[hot vigil]

That is fair assessment of the Vetterli, but still means the Springy is competing with that.
But even the Cenny just seems to do what the Springy want better.

But removing Dum Dum from Cenny could fix that

[vital fractal]

Yeah it’s just dum on Denny that’s an issue

Vetterli intrudes on just about every medium ammo rifle role and it’s insane that it’s allowed to, the bad part is there are skins released for each variant so they cannot undo that mistake of silencer and marksmen- as for ammo, it should not have HV (as it should not have Marksmen) and should not handle as well as it does

The weird part is, within 40m with FMJ, it performs better than a typical long ammo rifle with higher rof, higher ammo pool, less resource intensive traits, and more variants to boot with much less cost

[analog sigil]

shh dont talk about vetterli its broken but devs are unaware

It performs better than mosin under 40m for like 162

[vital fractal]

It needs to be known but won’t be touched

It’s been in the open for years now

[left rose]

Long ammo exist so no one cares about vetterli tbh
In the end Vetterli is still just medium ammo

[analog sigil]

with fmj it performs literally same as long ammo except it pens better and has a little rougher damage drop after 40m

[left rose]

And has like 330m/s. There is is a reason high elo player prefer mosin

velocity is super valuable in high elo lobbies and probably the most underrated stat since it translates your aim more accurately, why bother with guesses amd calculations about where your target might move if you can just click directly on target easily.

[analog sigil]

I'm used to 400 m/s but yeah the more velocity you have the longer you can click heads before you should be doubletapping bodies instead to guarantee hits

Vetterli is quite quick with doubletaps so it balances out the velocity a little

[vital fractal]

By the same reasoning, Spitzer Mosin is the best rifle in game

And sure, if you can consistently click heads then it is- but you can’t apply the level of play and skill ceilings of the top 1% of players to the general player base

A MV of 330 within 40m is nothing really detrimental in reality, most players will instead notice the increase of ammo, fire rate, and lower cost instead allowing them more use of the weapon

I get the long ammo meta in hunt exists BUT that’s in general as compared to specific situations as outlined here + when applied to the playerbase as a whole rather than looking at what elite skilled players use as an example of what’s the “best” or defines what is good and not

[frozen crater]

Well, 6 star pc is DOMINATED by spitzer'd weapons

[vital fractal]

And are 6 stars the average player?

[frozen crater]

those and dolch fmjs/nitros

[vital fractal]

Are 6 stars even 15% of the player population?

[frozen crater]

They use the cheesiest (best) weapons in order to win

[left rose]

using 330m/s at 40m is a massive difference compared to using 600m/s or even 800m/s at that range

[vital fractal]

The weapons people consider “cheesiest” only seem that way because they are used by people with the skill to surpass the threshold those weapons require to be good

Spitzer is inherently a High threshold but High ceiling item, which is why when you see a 6* use it and dome you from 150m, it seems over powered

[vital fractal]

You barely need to lead at that range

Barely

[frozen crater]

I think youre leaning way too heavily into the theoretical, since the environment we use to test (live game) consistently delivers results that are contrary to your championing of the vetterli being broken

[vital fractal]

When you compare it base to long, sure

But that’s not what we are doing here

[frozen crater]

But you were the one who used spitzer as a point of comparison?

[vital fractal]

We are literally comparing it to other weapons in the class, and in a specific situation, can match or outperform long at very specific situations

[vital fractal]

No, I didn’t

[frozen crater]

Long was mentioned beforehand, but you specifically brought up spitzer

[vital fractal]

One sec

[left rose]

If by barely leading you mean 2,5 head lenghts on a sprinting target - then yes

[frozen crater]

Because it is SIGNIFICANTLY overtuned on pc

[vital fractal]

When someone brings up High Velo in regards to Long, the only option is Spitzer- if they were simply referring to base ammo long being high velo then that’s on me-

But my point still stands

Because again

[left rose]

or even 1,6 head lenghts on a strafing target

[frozen crater]

Some part of me wants to continue for the sake of the debate, but in regards to spitzer significantly, I don't think you will ever understand its potency and the frustration regarding said potency in high stars (and even in the hands of skilled shooters in lower stars) due to you being on console

[vital fractal]

Top players will perform at the top end of whatever spectrum they are given

A majority of players will be towards the bottom or mid… it’s a bell curve however

With items like the nitro, or spitzer, or avto or other item that requires higher skill to utilize effectively

It won’t be as useful or powerful… it’s overblown

Again, in 6* pc, you are fighting the best of the best… but how many people is that compared to the average population?

The issues there are unique to that population, not hunt as a whole

[frozen crater]

But is the weapon with the highest skill cieling not considered the best weapon, regardless of the portion of a community using it?

[vital fractal]

No, it isn’t, because they majority of players won’t be able to ever experience that “power”

It’s only the best, if you can actually get the results from it

[left rose]

balance need to account for all skill levels

[vital fractal]

In an ideal world, sure

In reality, you cannot use the top 1% of players as a balance point

They are, extreme outliers

In statistics, those skew results

So you have to cut the outliers out

[left rose]

true, but if some things are problematic for those 1%, it needs to be addressed

[vital fractal]

And they can be, but they can’t be the basis of balance either

[left rose]

which they aren't as we can see

[vital fractal]

At that point it’s choosing the few over the many

[left rose]

Vetterli is at best mediocre at decent elo

[vital fractal]

The very few at that

[vital fractal]

That’s just false lol

[left rose]

And I'm not talking about 1%

[vital fractal]

Most of the player base fights within 50m

Aka with in a compound

Bar some large ones like ft or etc

[left rose]

Pretty much everyone will perform better using mosin instead of vetterli regardless of skill level, mosin is way easier to use due to velocity

[vital fractal]

That’s false too

[left rose]

wrong

[frozen crater]

But that only takes into account a playerbase which stays at their skill level. In reality, peoples skill level more likely than not will go up and the usability of the guns with the highest skill cielings will go higher. Just because someone cant realize a guns potency doesnt make the gun any less potent. its quite literally a skill issue.

Spitzer is in a broken state because of the highs people can go with it for virtually 0 work.

[vital fractal]

You give a new player a Winfield C vs a Mosin, the new player will miss much more- and lose more ammo with the Mosin where as a Winfield will allow forgiveness for missing and is easier to follow up

Again the idea of skill threshold and ceilings

It’s also something that can be applied elsewhere

[left rose]

And new players are the outliers on the different end that you can't base balance on

[frozen crater]

^

[vital fractal]

Yes, I know, but you made a general statement and I proved it wrong, now apply that to basic 4 stars

The same principles apply

[left rose]

Also winfield requires headshots due to pitiful damage dropoff.
Long ammo? It will almost always kill in 2 hits regardless if you hit limbs

2 arm shots at like 60m kill. Not balanced

And not deserved

[vital fractal]

The drop off doesn’t matter with FMJ on a vetterli within 40m… which is well within where most players fight

Am I saying long is balanced?

No

[left rose]

Sure and hitting those shots is much harder.

1,6 heads leading on a strafing target

[vital fractal]

Bro, most people get about 2 stars from their beginning base if that

[frozen crater]

From what I gather, youre saying a weapon is only as powerful as the person using it.

I personally do not think that should be the balancing standard for crytek, as I think that there should be a limit to how well a weapon performs so that the higher echelon of players do not suffer from the oppressiveness of the highest of skill cielings. Nitro/spitzer being the primary balance concerns in those ranks

[frozen crater]

When we had mmr distribution charts most people were high 3 star iirc

oh, do you mean when starting out?

[vital fractal]

I mean it is though, it shows in the outcomes of the weapon usage

But by balancing a weapon by the highest echelons of skill, you inherently pass on the limits/expectations you given them to the more realistic lower skilled players who are the majority of the games player base

[frozen crater]

I'm going to forfeit the debate since I've got irl stuff to do, but won't give up the idea that spitzer is in too strong of a state and is fundamentally contrary to Hunt's 'showdown' philosophy since it allows for piss easy kills while preventing any fair match via outranging opponents (who cant fight back unless also using spitzer) and running away. I'm not necessarily pointing out the sniping playstyle, but 6 star passiveness in general

[vital fractal]

No matter what you do, the highest skills players will always highlight what’s the strongest theoretical combo

And there will always be some combination that is just better

[frozen crater]

Yes, but there should be a limit as to how well a good combo can perform

[vital fractal]

Because this is reality, and sure, balancing isn’t a one and done job

[frozen crater]

PC nitro shredder/spitzer passes that limit imop

[vital fractal]

But where’s the limit?

[frozen crater]

Not saying balancing should revolve around 6 star pc

[vital fractal]

What’s the “line”

How does one determine what’s

Ok “it’s better but just enough to not be too much better”

[frozen crater]

Thats asking me for my opinion for balancing philosophy on a micro scale

[vital fractal]

Exactly

There’s no answer

But on a general whole

[frozen crater]

I have an answer based on 6 star experience

[vital fractal]

The point stands

If we listen only to the top 6*

[analog sigil]

If we listen to average finnish 6* if it shoots bullets its fine enough

[vital fractal]

We can balance to a point where a base Nagant is the only weapon that’s balanced lmao, (hyperbole but still, the only balance will occur when all weapons have the same stats)

Yes, long ammo is meta

I don’t disagree

[frozen crater]

So we shouldnt take into account 6 star experience, which has proven to show the worst balancing pitfalls of every gun due to over saturation of a few key weapon and combo choices vs. their win rate?

I understand that your point is not to balance around 6 stars, and I agree

[vital fractal]

You can’t balance around extremes, and for the majority of the player base- Spitzer and nitro is not an issue so… why change it significantly

[frozen crater]

But to ignore the skill cielings of weapon combos and the extent to which they can be used is to ignore the balancing issues with the more powerful weapons that overshadow the less powerful ones

[vital fractal]

Same reason why for newer players, they shouldn’t make it easier to get money

[analog sigil]

Guns are quite balanced so it doesnt really matter what you use

[frozen crater]

Spitzer and Nitro is an issue for lower skilled players, but in the opposite direction. They are hardly used because they suck to use without proper practice, and generally aren't fun. They are balanced in a way in which fun is lessened in favor of pure aiming performance

[vital fractal]

But the thing is, Spitzer and Nitro don’t have skill ceilings that make them so broken until you are literally playing against players who can wall bang headshot you through multiple walls, or from 300m consistently in which case…. Nothing you do will be enough lmao

[frozen crater]

I dont think those mechanics should remain in such a state.

[vital fractal]

And that’s fine, they are power weapons

I don’t think every weapon should be accessible easily

[left rose]

quite balanced only in terms of that worse weapon "can" win due to headshot being instakill.
If the same player plays springfield/base nagant compared to mosin/dolchp fmj there will be massive difference in winrate

[vital fractal]

There still is a hierarchy to the weapons in hunt… it’s just it’s been diluted and distended

[vital fractal]

The “massiveness” is highly dependent on the skill of the player and play style, and you go into average players skills it’ll be at best slight however at much higher cost since most aren’t hundredaires

[analog sigil]

dolch allows for a more agressive playstyle but both loadouts are perfectly fine and have maybe only slightly skewed odds if they meet, when people play sloppy and go always wide as fuck dolch gets a lot stronger than it is

[vital fractal]

Will it be a higher win rate with a Spring field vs a Mosin? Yes

Massive? For a 5*? Noticeable

For a 2*? I doubt it

[left rose]

nah, the average player will perform simply way better cuz the weapons are way better. Nothing to do with playstyle

[vital fractal]

My guy, at 10m a Winfield has a faster ttk

At 20 too

At 30, 40 a vetterli has a faster ttk

[left rose]

My guy, dolch is a thing

Consistency is a thing

you won't hit every single shot in the chest

[analog sigil]

as far as I'm concerned neither onetap body and both onetap heads

[vital fractal]

Congrats, now you’re expecting a population with winning issues to pay 750 for a single weapon each time

[analog sigil]

so they are the same

[left rose]

Neither will you hit every single shot with a lower velocity

[vital fractal]

That’s not sustainable

[vital fractal]

Besides it doesn’t matter the stats when the gun needs practice to use

Like Horror was saying

[left rose]

even the best players screw it up regularly with low velo guns, that's why velocity is so valuable

[analog sigil]

the difference between lead is learnable and players movement is predictable

its like theoretically high velocity matters if your brain didnt have 200ms reaction time to movement changes

[vital fractal]

Is the dolch better than say a pax? Sure, usually

But do the players have the practice with Dolch vs a pax? Usually no, they end up spamming and missing because they can’t use the dolch often because it’s too expensive for them (which is fine, it’s a privilege to use) and ends up costing them a win

[left rose]

Nope, it still compares the absolute power level.
Also you don't have to be great to have a near infinite money is this game sadly

[vital fractal]

The amount of times someone emptied an avto at me because they couldn’t handle it and then lost has been numerous

But it’s considered one of the top weapons in the game

[vital fractal]

But most players don’t have that luxury

You can’t ignore that

And is the dolch that much better in the same hands as a new army or officer or… a fanning pistol conversion? No, not really for a good amount of people

[left rose]

velocity leaves more room for error, which happens especially for lower skilled players.
Without any reaction time one could instantly adjust for the change in movement and react perfectly even with low velo guns

[analog sigil]

the room for error is actually the same

[left rose]

Many more than you might think

[vital fractal]

Does hv help? Yes, no one is arguing it doesn’t

Can it hurt? Yes if you’re not used to it but no one is arguing the benefits or cons of HV,

Just how relevant it was originally, within 40m with a Vetterli vs a Mosin

[left rose]

Still very relevant at 40m

[vital fractal]

It really isn’t though

At 33m you don’t even really need to lead with 330m/s, and it is slight at 40

[left rose]

2,6 heads lead is not slight

[vital fractal]

Following the general rule of 10

[vital fractal]

It is in this game

[left rose]

It really isn't

[analog sigil]

its very minor

and intuitive if you play consistent velocity

it gets difficult when u switch all the time

[vital fractal]

Maybe if you’re used to hit scan but, in this game, it’s fine-

[analog sigil]

Im used to 400m/s

[left rose]

Well, seems like we have in difference in opinion on how much you want your aim translated to results

[vital fractal]

And guess what? All the attainable weapons are around 250-400m/s

So what do most players have some proficiency in?

250-400m/s

[left rose]

What do you mean attainable

[analog sigil]

I come from a background where travel time on projectiles is like 1 second on average and its still possible to predict and have hit rate of 80% because people have really predictable movement

[vital fractal]

A dolch is not attainable in terms of cost, positioning of variants, and ammo

[left rose]

Maybe not for you

[vital fractal]

It is for me, I’m an outlier

But not for a majority of players

Go into a 2,3,4,5 lobby and you’ll note the differences in weapons

In general*

And it’s fine

Again every weapon shouldn’t be attainable easily

That would go against balance

[left rose]

Difference in movement is thing is pretty much the first thing you see with high elo vs low elo.

[vital fractal]

And yet where are most players….

Mid low elo

[left rose]

low elo player run straight which is easy to predict

[vital fractal]

So they miss more, on average
Need to fight closer, on average
Need to shoot more, on average
Are less proficient, on average

They need more of a back up blanket of safety on average

[left rose]

In other words "most players" aren't affected anyway if the top guns are nerfed - because they aren't "attainable" for those player regardless and will always stick to the attainable 400 max velocity guns anyway

[vital fractal]

I mean in a sense yes

But at the same point there’s not a good line to say where the nerfing will stop or not, and nerfing them can cause the weapons balances intended for the higher end players to perhaps be seen as worse for the lower end players and thus have butterfly effects not thought of

For example if Spitzer was considered balanced at 6* top level but then absolute garbage for low tiers after nerfing it, then the low tiers would be even more discouraged from experimenting once they finally can try it out here and there

[left rose]

That's not a bad thing and a lot of games do it that way

[analog sigil]

Im mostly messing with you, its so much easier to hit people with higher velocities its funny

[vital fractal]

Yeah but at that point there would be more effective items available earlier on that are much more attainable and still effective later on

So, what would the point of trying it out matter?

[left rose]

Some things are effective at low elo where other things don't work anymore

See vetterli vs nitro for example

[vital fractal]

Yes that is a basic statement, and that’s fine

[left rose]

vetterli will perform better by low elo players

[vital fractal]

Yes, that’s fine

[left rose]

correct

[vital fractal]

That’s literally what I’ve said

[left rose]

but at some point that player will get better

and see the limitations of that weapons

[vital fractal]

We can’t say to what degree

Some players stay at 2* some go from 1* to 6*

[left rose]

And will favor things that current high elo players do

like good velocity

The players goes to a natural progression

[vital fractal]

At lot stay at 3/4*

And aren’t able to capitalize much on what you are laying out

[left rose]

by learning the game and understanding mechanics on a deeper level

[vital fractal]

In theory yes

[left rose]

and that is also fine

[vital fractal]

In reality…. Not

[left rose]

then they can stay with vetterli if they like to

[vital fractal]

I mean any weapon someone chooses they can stick with that was never in question

I love running the Nagant 1895 because I just like it

[left rose]

yes, we are talking performance

[vital fractal]

But that wasn’t a relevant

Exactly

Seems like we hit a rut here

So imma just say decent discussion gotta go

[left rose]

no one talked about preference for the sake of preference here

[hot vigil]

As all other aspects, HV matters, to a point.
The best weapons in the game have that perfect overlap of HV, damage and damage retention.

[left rose]

+firerate

[hot vigil]

Yeye

and fire rate ofc :)

But if HV only mattered then Cenny HV woulld be top tier

[left rose]

true, it's a combination

velocity, firerate and dmg(retention)
top weapons usually have 2 of those while 3rd is meh

[light flame]

I like the Salveskin suggestion, but it shouldn't restore a lost bar. That's a bit too much. Maybe it hastens the restoration or immediately restores the char off of a health bar from fire damage

That way its a bit like Mithridatism but for fire instead of poison

[atomic cipher]

@fickle fractal damn... that's kinda crazy

[queen jungle]

Bro. https://i.imgur.com/TLDQhga.png

😭

[vital fractal]

Man wants his silence

I don’t blame him

[queen jungle]

Aren't you already able to just hit 1 button at start of match and mute every enemy.

I get it's not the same but 😭

[pliant elbow]

you can mute everyone with 2 button presses at the start of the match

what he wants is literally in the game

[vital fractal]

I mean he makes a good point

[blissful jackal]

@sly fjord just set your voicechat output to something thats not your headphoens

mine autosets to something other than my headphones and i have to change it back every time i open the game if i want to hear enemies

[pliant elbow]

Yeah. the ability mute all should be in the game. Oh wait, it already is

[vital fractal]

Yeah he makes a great point

[pliant elbow]

then do what @blissful jackal said

and no it lets you do it before anyone in the match uses voip

[blissful jackal]

thats what mean by setteing the output

i cant hear them at all because it doesnt go to my headphones

it autosets it to the lg which is muted instead ofg my headphones

[stiff matrix]

I wish someone would do something about this 6 players against 3 in the video it shows them playing together to kill the 3 and at the end it shows their names I wish they would do something to punish these players

[sand kiln]

Posting your suggestion one time is enough, no need to post it over and over (it is actually against the guidelines of #game-ideas ).

[rotund obsidian]

yeah no i think hes right, u can only globally mute which includes teammates (by turning off voip), u cant mute enemies until youve heard them

[thin remnant]

#game-ideas message would this be a big slot?
I like the idea
@rustic timber

[pliant elbow]

unless they were using a 3rd party application or specifically searching for eachother in game teaming is allowed

[carmine junco]

yea ive teamed randomly with people so many times in duos

sometime it really is worth the talk to just simply split the bounty, and go 4v2

expecially if the defenders are toxic as fuck

ive done a 8v2 because of toxicity before

we went in all melee to humilatiate

[mint phoenix]

I have played with so many different people on several discords. when I pick up the bounty or someone I know picks up the bounty I can see their nicknam so I open voice comms and ask them if we want to share.

[carmine junco]

they litterally will not, they decided its the better option ingame, they shared the spoils ingame

now, if you start doing it BEFORE a match which is extremely hard to find out, then yea, sure

[mint phoenix]

there is really no point in doing it pre-game... firstly, you won't be able to end up in the same lobby unless you try when very few players are online. secondly, you are literally planning to share the bounty tokens amongst two trios which is very little money for each team so not worth it

teaming as solos pre-game is a different story though

[carmine junco]

exactly.

[tribal wyvern]

@severe vault
Interesting take, in the same breath to tell Crytek not to listen to crybabies wanting custom ammo removed & advocating that if any special ammo should be removed it's spitzer.

If you add things, that if you afterwards notice "wow that was not a good idea," it's good development to remove it.
Bleed + fmj on dolch was just stupid.

I've wanted Nitro & Avto removed since the day i started playing back during Scrapbeak.
If those 2 guns vanishes I would not be sad.
But that does however open room for a new "op" gun, that might then later be removed or nerfed.

I do think however that the meta needs to be a living & breathing thing. Your game gets incredibly stale & boring if you never change it. Custom ammo like fire surpassing popularity over long ammo is not a bad thing. Or medium becoming the next strong thing, is not bad. The meta has to change.

Before you always bumrushed boss & only brought tools to bring down a boss. Now you might need to run with an axe/pitchfork etc to the bosslair. Hell now it might not be to rewarding to push boss early as it used to.

Meta needs to change for better or for worse.

[dusky tapir]

@proper swallow I've deleted the conversation as #game-questions is about the game and its mechanics - for ban appeals and similar issues, use #customer-support instead

[thin remnant]

hard disagree on nitro and avto

they're fun additions imo

and i rarely see them, i feel like they arent and never have been meta

[tribal wyvern]

Never said they were meta

I wouldn't call them "fun" additions.
One of them could make you bleed through brick walls. And even oneshot you through brick walls.
It also oneshotted to chest at 60m.

The other one had for the longest time a glitch where you could fire it like a longammo rifle.

And it was also abused with a script

[thin remnant]

but it USED to.

not anymore

[tribal wyvern]

Right, but when i'm discussing the weapons i'm kinda including the history of them to.

[thin remnant]

Nitro is balanced from the low ammo pool and reliance on special ammo and ammo boxes, also the terrible sights and clunky feel.

[tribal wyvern]

Or do i HAVE to speak only of my experience with the gun today ?

[thin remnant]

well it's complaining about a bug that has already been fixed

[tribal wyvern]

Bringing up negatives that existed with the weapon, is hardly complaining.

[thin remnant]

it's like saying the lemat needs fixing because it USED TO have the shotgun barrel bug

[tribal wyvern]

No it's not

As i never claimed avto needs a fix

I was talking about the gun

[thin remnant]

it's the exact same. a bug a weapon used to have being brought up as a reason it should be removed.

[tribal wyvern]

What is this pedantic arguments you're bringing up, completly pointless to the discussion itself

I was talking about the weapon in general

And reasons why it wasn't a fun addition

[thin remnant]

The one argument you made about the avto and why it should be removed is something that used to exist that is no longer a problem-

i thought we were talking present day here, about how they should be "removed" at the current moment

[tribal wyvern]

My apologise, next time i'll bring my excel spreadsheet to please the mister.
Do please accept my sincerest apology

I Shall not bother the mister with my poor list again

[thin remnant]

I accept ❤️

[tribal wyvern]

ffs dude it's a feedback discussion forum, not a boardmeeting at crytek

[thin remnant]

You're confusing me

hold on

im gonna send one last message then get out of here

[tribal wyvern]

I was just mentioning reasons why i did not think the gun was a fun addition.
I wasn't prestening a case to Crytek to remove it.

Because of the countless bugs it brought and how poorly balanced it was

and how easily it was abused

a simple script

[thin remnant]

Nitro: Famous title as the one hit kill expensive Elon Musk weapon. Balanced from its reliance on ammo crates and special ammo. Horrible iron sights. Would genuinely be one of the worst guns in the game if not for a one hit kill to the chest which only works at certain distances.

Avtomat: Famous title as the "BRRR" weapon. Balanced from only being able to shoot for a bit before running out of ammo, especially only being able to shoot in three round bursts. Things that used to be the case don't matter anymore, it can no longer be fired one shot at a time.
Fun for the avto user because: "AHAHA I HAVE THE AVTOMAT, BRRRR"
Fun for people going against him because "HE HAS THE AVTOMAT AAAA!!!"

And they're clearly not overpowered, barely anyone uses them.

Not saying it should be removed? When you literally said "I've wanted it removed for the longest time now" or whatever it was?

Countless bugs it "BROUGHT". Past pretence.

"I've wanted it removed since the day I started playing" or whatever. That implies you still want it removed.

LeMat shouldn't be removed due to its old shotgun barrel bug.

[steel comet]

In high MMR those two weapons are quite frustrating to meet. I think they are clearly better than alternatives if you know how to use it.

[tribal wyvern]

I think you undervalue the weapons. Most of the time you do not use the ironsight. You use the hipfire, then just ads & shoot. And it's really not that bad of a sight, many guns have the same sight. If you can learn to use those, nitro is just a slightly worse one. The reason it can oneshot, is it now up to 50m after the nerf ? Makes it really frikking strong.

From your descriptions, it tells me you do not face high ranked players using these.
It's not "ahaha i have the avtomat brrr" when those guys use it.
It's more like "brr brr brr brr" a trio wiped.
And you bring double spark pistols, 3 ammo boxes & you have basically like 3 magazines of nitro.
And with more teammates with ammo boxes, the ammo issue is non existant.

They're used very frequently (avto a bit less), in 5-6star.

You're confusing my statements. I'm saying i'd like them removed.
Making a case to crytek with "heres reasons why it should be removed" is very different.
You're taking my one paragraph far to seriously.

I also used the past pretence "it WAS not a fun addition."

And they are horribly balanced, always have been

It's still poorly balanced

No gun, without a headshot, should ever be allowed to oneshot past 20m imo.

[thin remnant]

What you said about dual sparks pistols and ammo crates...
That's the whole thing. You need to take up all that loadout space to make this one weapon more viable

[tribal wyvern]

ye and it's hella worth it

If you got the cash

And not to make it viable, but to make it absurdly viable

It's already viable

[thin remnant]

Ok so you're sacrificng half your loadout space and a ton of money and potentially even 6 trait points and a trait slot for quartermaster

[steel comet]

Usually your teammates bring ammo boxes as well, and you're most likely meeting long ammo opponents to steal ammo from.

[thin remnant]

sounds balanced to me

[steel comet]

Not really ammo problems with avto

[tribal wyvern]

Your secondary is in 9/10 cases always an ammo filler

[thin remnant]

I agree avto and nitro are very strong weapons, but I find them balanced

[tribal wyvern]

The only time they're not is if you bring a shotgun

[thin remnant]

not what? not balanced?

[tribal wyvern]

Connect that statement with my previous, then it will make more sense

I was mid typing

[thin remnant]

oh i see

[steel comet]

Nitro isn't really balanced. If it was balanced it would just be an unfun weapon to play, don't think there's a good middle ground

[thin remnant]

I mean only with certain playstyles

i like to actually use my secondary personally

[tribal wyvern]

I tend to break my comments into 2, bad habit

[thin remnant]

imo that's what balanced is.
The point where it's fun and not too strong

sure it might lean a bit more on the too strong side

[tribal wyvern]

But it is to strong?

[thin remnant]

but i prefer that to it not being fun

[steel comet]

With some practice in, I'm sure most people can learn to use the nitro. The trick is just to 'quick scope'

[tribal wyvern]

Avtomat has been changed countless times during its lifetime, because they don't know how to properly balance it. It will most likely see far more balance changes in the future.

[steel comet]

That's the skill requirement behind that weapon and you get rewarded with absurd one tap kills

[thin remnant]

yeah, thats another thing. you have to learn it

[tribal wyvern]

Like every single othe weapon?

[thin remnant]

If you have to learn it a lot, that makes it much more balanced

at a certain point you may as well just use mosin and get headshots

[tribal wyvern]

It's far easier hitting upper chest, than head

[steel comet]

At least mosin needs to double tap body

Nitro even one taps on stomach

[thin remnant]

the skill requirement on nitro one taps? quickscope
the skill requirement on mosin one taps? headshots

[thin remnant]

okay, tbh i think that can be removed

nitro should only one tap to upper torso

but my argument is against a removal, not a change

[tribal wyvern]

But if you nerf some of its onetap potential, you kill the gun.

See where the balance issue is?

Same with Avto

You can rip ammo from it all day as "balance" but when theres countless way to regain it, it's still broken.

Nitro is insanely strong because how easily it onetaps.
And you also get 2 shots if you miss

[thin remnant]

I mean if you think making it only one tap to upper torso is killing the gun the only thing I can say is that I disagree

can't really make an argument for that

maybe have it one tap to lower torso at really close ranges but other than that

im out btw thanks for discussing

i play casually and don't really care if somethings slightly too strong, i just enjoy going "FUCK HE HAS THE AVTO". i find that fun personally

[tribal wyvern]

This is what it kinda already does. the one tap to lower is not as far as the upper

Don't know exact range and i don't think they updated the website

ggs

[tribal wyvern]

This is a position, that is really difficult to argue any type of balancing with.

[crystal plume]

From what I remember nitro has the same damage multiplier for lower and upper torso currently

[tribal wyvern]

Really? Ooof

Well that def adds to the "op"ness of the gun.

[crystal plume]

Imo the main opness of the gun is shredder ammo, it should have never been buffed to 1 tap beyond base ammo

Heavy bleed on top of slightly reduced 1 tap range already made it the better choice for close range fights

[tribal wyvern]

For sure was a contributing factor. And also being able to penetrate thick walls with the shredder ammo

Made less than 0 sense

Wonder if Nitro without bleed would make it more balanced. Or if that would be wep killer.

Feel like the only reason you take Avto or Nitro or Dolch is because they have that 1 thing, Without it, it's just an expensive toy.

Nitro with shredder, Avto with spark pistols (prior uppercuts), Dolch because of the strong spam & the custom ammo it has (not for long i guess).

Dolch reload nerf was a good touch imo

[steel comet]

Yeah but I feel like the ammo box buff was unnecessary, same with the price reduction on dolch

It went from 5 bullets to 7

[tribal wyvern]

True, the price reduction was a bit off a "um?"

Would be interesting, if there is a video where they actually mentioned the reasoning of why adding Avto/Nitro/dolch ?
I wonder if they expected everyone to prestige & be poor & just never use these?

So the usage would be low

But then went "oh shit" when literally no one prestiges nowadays

[unborn smelt]

they have been around since ever

they never just added them later on

[tribal wyvern]

ye i get that. But i mean, they added winfield i guess on release and alot of very cheap weapons.
Why have outrageous expensive as hell ones ?

No thought of the implications of such strong weapons? Avto was insane on release, shooting 1 bullet at a time

[unborn smelt]

Because the original intent was for the economy to have an effect on gameplay

And for the majority of the community that indeed works

[tribal wyvern]

So basically expected ppl to be poor, prestige all the time

and if you bought an avto, it halved ur economy

[tribal wyvern]

Interesting to see how big that majority actually is.
51-49? 90-10

[unborn smelt]

Not really - most players are around the 4 star mark, with the second most being higher end of 3 stars and a bit less the lower end of 5 stars

[tribal wyvern]

What does rank have to do with it?

[unborn smelt]

In that area, people could usually not maintain to run the expensive guns very often

[tribal wyvern]

Well, that really depends, extracting doesn't affect mmr in any meaningful way

I mean sure they're not farming kills with avto or nitro.
But ALOT of ppl buy cheap stuff and collect expensive weapons

[unborn smelt]

because back when we got some infos on changes they did they put it in that contest

because a lot of the more dedicated people here see how the game plays out in a high 5 to 6 star range, but that's now how the game plays out for the majority of players

and balance in a title that doesn't have a professional tournament scene, needs to work for the bulk of players first

[unborn smelt]

For that to work, your average player needs to able to beat Avtos and the like with the cheap weapons they brought

which is a tough feat

[tribal wyvern]

Or have someone in their team do it. I've played with Goblins in trios.
I wipe a team of mosin/nitro with my winfield, before i can revive the 2nd guy, 1st guy is already running over there, switching weapons.
Usually why i loot before i revive in trios in this discord.

But thats true

[unborn smelt]

Well yeah, that works too, but that's not anything the regular player can just depend on

[tribal wyvern]

no 😄

[unborn smelt]

So what i'm trying to say is those outrageously expensive weapons have always been a thing, because they were meant to be money sinks.

[tribal wyvern]

It's hard to take the mmr seriously as a way to distinguish between good/bad players.
And with how you can drop sooo fast in solo etc.

I don't trust that metric to much. Psycho has 100k or 200k? And sits in 4star.
Rachta had 2 million in 3-4 star.

ye but don't work to much as a money sink tho

[unborn smelt]

A Mosin is way stronger than a Winnie, and thus it's way more expensive.

Nitro, Dolch and Avto were just the same system but more pronounced

[tribal wyvern]

Like the average players money in 3-4 star now vs year or 2 back is way different. Theres been sooo many ways to increase your money gain. Just this last event could net you 4k on an extract

I get where the origin of the idea for the weapons comes from.
But they have not really been adjusted to match today

[unborn smelt]

yes, but loadouts get perpetually more expensive too

consumables got more expensive, as did weapons

And how much money people make depends a lot on if they extract or not

Or if people like to play duos or trios

In trios you should roughly win every fourth match. so you need to earn enough money for three failed attempts in said win

in Duos, you should be able to expect to win only every sxith match, so a win needs to make up for five lost attempts

in the past prices for weapons, consumables, tools have risen.
Like way back in EA a pretty reasonable laodout could be had for under 25$ (the amount you got safe from picking up a clue), today the medkit alone costs more than that

[thin remnant]

I agree shredder ammo's pen should be less

[unborn smelt]

Like a pretty budget loadout is smth like Winnie C + Conversion pistol, for tools a knife, medkit, and chokes are prett ymuch a must, then ideally 1-2 big vit shots, but lets take deployable medkits for budgetary reasons, and two dynamite sticks.

That's 41 + 55 + 40 + 30 + 25 + 35 + 35 + 18 + 18 = 297$ for an almost bottom of the barrel loadout

[tribal wyvern]

Fair point

Even romero rose alot in cost

[unborn smelt]

I entirely understand however that for still plenty of people budget is no real restriction

especially more dedicated players in the 5 to lower 6 star range

and for those players guns like the Avto and especially Nitro and Dolch have always been a significant issue

[tribal wyvern]

But even if you lose 5 matches with a 300$ loadout. Thats 1500, extract with big bounty you still get mostly if not all that back. And losing the other matches you usually grab some money

[unborn smelt]

yes, but then again that's an absolute bottom of the barrel loadout too

that's someone that can't invest into good heals like the 85$ conmsumable big vit shots, or 100$ frag bombs

[empty oasis]

only from clues really. The cash register, body looting, and money sack cash is only kept if you extract

[tribal wyvern]

Killing/banishing boss to

[unborn smelt]

which are huge force multipliers in PvP

and no custom ammo

[empty oasis]

But under 20k a huge portion of that cost is gone now

[flat sandal]

stupid question. do you get any money when you die?

[tribal wyvern]

Taking clues, killing/Banishing boss.
If you completed any challenges

Challenges has hunt dollar rewards right? Not just bb

[flat sandal]

should start with removing that

[tribal wyvern]

It's not much, 75$ max if you take 3 clues. 150 if double boss bounty i guess.

[tribal wyvern]

This is true aswell. You get alot of free stuff. And if you buy hunters nowadays you get weapons/consums alot cheaper.

[unborn smelt]

That is absolutely true, and for those people that are under constriants by the economy that is absolutely necessary

[flat sandal]

this would be the perfect time to experiment. remove any cash flow except successfully extracting, see what happens

[tribal wyvern]

The rich gets richer, the poor gets even more poor

[unborn smelt]

They could try, but it'd likely just make paoeple with a hard time have an even shittier time

[flat sandal]

that could improve matchmaking^^

[unborn smelt]

That's kind of how Hunt was way back in EA

[flat sandal]

was it before match making?

[unborn smelt]

It never had truely no income if you died

[tribal wyvern]

It always had matchmaking to some degree. But it was before todays mmr

[flat sandal]

so it could be differnt now

[thin remnant]

You should definitely get money when you die. Otherwise bad players would be stuck in an endless loop of barely being able to play the game

[empty oasis]

Iirc, there was a time early on of no sbmm whatsoever and it turned out just like you'd think it would

[tribal wyvern]

I think an even more interesting idea would be to put a roof on how much money you can have totally. Like 50k or something

[flat sandal]

if you have more consistent match making you should have some average chance to extract

[tribal wyvern]

Noted 😄

[unborn smelt]

The issue is finding a good balance between there being a noticable economy where bringing stuff in carries the risk of loss, and the risk of loss not being so big people just camp all day due to said risk

[flat sandal]

true

[unborn smelt]

afterall if there's a big risk for people to run out of money, they start to rat, camp and straight up extract instead of doing PvP if they have better gear

[flat sandal]

a way to alleviate that is to make scrounging at the bottom fun as well

[unborn smelt]

that used to be super common complaints back in the day

Ideally yes - but i can't think of many ways to make that happen

that's why most games i can think of with an economy and clearly stronger but thus more expensive or rare gear, use wipes

[flat sandal]

there could be different contracts splitting the playerbase along a line it should be split by mmr anyway

[unborn smelt]

Way back in EA we had a system where any weapon would kill with a headshot, with almost no restriction on range

which made lower tier dirt cheap weapons still very dangerous

and i personally enjoyed that, altho that also brought many issues with it

[flat sandal]

sounds insane now

😄

actually wanted to say, it's kinda fun to brows the suggestion overview archive here. how are there hundredth of votes?^^ This one is good

[flat sandal]

so basically there could be for example three types that give you a different amount of money. Sort of the white shirt to Hardin versions. Behind the scene it simply just doesn't offer you the lower ones if your MMR is too high. Then you could potentially be able to make the economy way more difficult. It's weird though, it should work already without ppl getting upset.

[empty oasis]

@raw forum #game-ideas message

MMR decay after a period of innactivity is already in the game

[raw forum]

Its not working for me then, I returned to the game after 2 months and I am still in the matchmaking with a players from the MMR since I played last time. Or how much time it should takes, that this feature with MMR descreasing starts working, one year? Anyway, it might be improved

[flat sandal]

you'll get there super quick, donT worry 😄

[raw forum]

no, I am worry :(. Because each time, when I comback to the game, I have to go feed with free hunters + necro to lower my MMR artificially and start playing its normally

[flat sandal]

erm, aaactually, that's called deranking and it's actually illegal soooo...

[empty oasis]

Patch 1.5.1

Iirc, there's first stage decay after 7 days and the second after a month

[flat sandal]

just joking but you don't really haaave to do that. Just play the game

I personally slap more after a break 😄

[raw forum]

Nono, after then I comeback I am suffering and loosing hunter in a 0.0001 sec, when I even didn't realease someone is shooting. This is not okay, to loose each time 2-3 hours to re-adjust my MMR artifically. Its is okay, I see, we have it, but it still didn't work, or need more time to descrease your MMR

This fact which I know, makes me harder to return to the game. I am always remember, I will comebuck and I will suck (and loose all my hunters) for first 2-3 hours of the game. Do you know how many times this knowledge prevented me to comeback to the game. It only works only with a strong motivator 😄 patch release/event/twitch drops

[flat sandal]

yeah but you can't really artificially readjust your mmr. that is like saying "I want the game to be fun and it is when I get to kick noob ass so I derank untill it's fun like that" 😄 It's a little weird perspective tbh

[raw forum]

So, how much time I need that this change start working. I returned to the game after 2 months of a break, and I am still was on the 5 stars matchmaking

[flat sandal]

play a couple of games and you'll be 4 again

[raw forum]

exactly, thats why I am asking a "solution"/better solution from devs 😄

[flat sandal]

okay fair enough

[empty oasis]

Yeah, it doesnt go by stars. The stars are just something so you can see where you are in a range.

The actual decay affects the real number behind the stars and thats the number thats used to calculate your team mmr which is what you mm with

[raw forum]

but the real number is hided under the stars, that why I assume, this is what is showing to me. So I presume lowering my real number -> lowers the stars, no?

[flat sandal]

didn't know there was decay tbh. ther are very individual actual decay rates so it can't be bang on for everybody

eventually

[empty oasis]

Not necessarily. Lets say you're a 5 star with a true mmr of 2975
After mmr decay, you drop 200 pts to a 2775. Thats a big drop, more of a mmr difference than between a 3 star(2599 max) and a 5 star (2750 min) actually, but youre still a 5 star

[raw forum]

but again, its strange, 2 months of a break and I am still playing against "cyborgs" not humans, this is strange MMR decoy. I would really like that it decrease it much stronger, but anyway thank you for clarification

[jagged wagon]

I had a friend come back after a year away, he came back as a 4 star (he was solidly 5 sometimes 6 previously) it took us just 3 games before he was back into 5 again. The decay does happen, not that it matters for long.

[empty oasis]

So he was high 5, dropped to high 4, and you were surprised that he got back to low 5 quickly?

[jagged wagon]

Did I say I was surprised? He was back at 6 for a couple games the following day, my point is the decay is not relevant when the system is so volatile in the first place.

[empty oasis]

The decay only lasts for 10 matches and its only supposed to be enough to give you an easier time getting back in, not to drop you completely and have you stay there

It's also not keeping you at whatever mmr it decayed to for those 10 matches. Gains and losses still affect the total

[jagged wagon]

That’s fine, I am not disputing any of that, just providing experience of the decay after a year away to people that didn’t know it existed.

[rustic timber]

For me it only matters if you are new or not. The fact that two new three stars is set into matches with pure five stars, if just one of their teammates is a five or six, is nonsense. I wish their where somekind of balance here that could help teams that has that large difference is skills. For we are having fun, but we loose new players.

[empty oasis]

Honestly, thats on the 5star for bringing in the 3star. The team mmr is some kind of average of everyones mmr (that afaik we dont know the math to) and its the team mmr that you get matched by. The matchmaker doesnt care if there is a 2star on the team or a 4star as long as those team mmrs are close to the same(different servers have different acceptable matches based on server pop)

I dont really know of a way to make this more fair. Maybe like the recent suggestion to restrict the higher mmr's loadout but that'd still be unfair for other low mmr teams really

[jagged wagon]

Yeah that’s a tough one, especially when it’s a trio of friends and one is considerably skilled. It can lead to them not even wanting to play together, but trying to find a balance that feels fair for all involved is tricky.

[rustic timber]

I agree that it is the higher mmr's fault, and for me it okey if we get nerfed. In the end, I can't make friends become better in games. But I can be worse. If we could become nerfed, and not rewarded for being their. To the point where we would be balanced with a 3 star. Then I think that would be the best as an option.

[empty oasis]

But whats fair to them? On a comparably skilled team, i'm a 5-6*(maybe normal 6 playing full meta) and as a solo ive wiped lobbies with 2 silenced nagants and fanning. What kind of handicap do you give to make that fair? I just dont have any good ideas

[unborn smelt]

What do you mean by "we (i assume means the high star player) get nerfed" ?

[empty oasis]

#game-ideas message

[unborn smelt]

I see

[jagged wagon]

What would that nerf look like? The examples given don’t nerf the Experience, awareness, or aiming/leading ability of the high skill player. I would love to find a solution to this too, but I feel this isn’t it.

[rustic timber]

We as in high mmr yes. I think half hp, constantly coughing, a special mentor skin that is easier visible, limited to compact ammo - no special. And I think the mentor system should make our kd inactive for those matches. Giving me an incentive to help my friends get kills. And limit that system to only work while those friends are either new, or low mmr.

[empty oasis]

The biggest issue I see is that you cant nerf game sense and map knowledge. You can give a good player a single shot winnie and they'd still have a better than average chance to completely dominate lower skilled full meta teams

[unborn smelt]

Also not all people that are better than their friends are better by the same amount

[rustic timber]

We could go even futher, and give mentor characthers old man problems. Larger weapon sways, less stamina, less slots..

True, but the basic mmr system has already those issues.

[unborn smelt]

The basic MMR is set up this way, because this is better for the greater good.

Yes your two friends do have a bad time being in a match with you, but if they adjust it downwards so your mates are in a match more balanced for them, your presence makes all the enemies there have a bad time

so you bringing two lower levels means two have a bad time whiel struggling, but you being in a too weak lobby means 9 people have a bad time struggling to fight your team

I get the intent of wanting to be nerfed so you being in a lower level match is balanced - but that's basically impossible to achieve

[jagged wagon]

The best option for you really is for them to play in duo and stream to you on discord, you can Sherpa them while they have balanced matches. They will learn quicker than being left to figure things out themselves without the frustration of being crushed. I know that means you’re not playing them but if you really want to coach, that’s what coaches do.

[rustic timber]

To be honest, if hunt could add a couple more stars to it's mmr, I think it would work better. But I do feel flattered that you think a 5 star restricted to half its health, more weapon sway, being an easy one shot, with compact weapons, is still unbalanced to a three star. I think that balance can be found where an nerfed experienced player, can face off a relative new player, and still have a fight that feels equal.

[flat sandal]

Maybe if matchmaking would try to match teams with varying mmr?

[rustic timber]

I would like that aswell.. that we would face teams with other two three stars, and one five. Yes!

[flat sandal]

at least there is a chance of that working, although it probs won't be too reliable

[empty oasis]

Theres not much chance of that working as long as mmr is as volatile as it currently is. Too easy to smurf or derank and cream the legitimate teams

[jagged wagon]

The player base is also not large enough for such specific perimeters, even if the system wasn’t abused and all the players were at their correct ELO.

[flat sandal]

yeah but that's an issue on top of everything all the time anyway

[rustic timber]

Then perhaps the shooting range is the solution. By expanding it to make room for perhaps two teams, we can fight each other on better terms then we now have there.

[flat sandal]

also true but if it is not currently trying, implementing it could help a bit at least

[empty oasis]

Thats why i'm holding out for custom lobbies. Still wouldnt be fair to my friends but I can nerf myself by only doing leg shots or something without ruining the entire random servers enjoyment

[spiral moon]

@raw forum

I love the idea

I do

I think that, if the community was more tame,

It would be a great idea.

The issue is that system would be abused by people who want to be in a lobby of newbies with a K/D that matches a professional lol

[analog sigil]

Hard to nerf aim

[empty oasis]

Nah, just run the drunk.exe program

[analog sigil]

I play with mouse accel so does that count

[jagged wagon]

As far as I am aware it’s set to finding fast matches over fair. We have been told a complete refactor is coming though.

[empty oasis]

Who hurt you?

[analog sigil]

I aim better with accel

Like 30% better

Its a crazy diff

[flat sandal]

yep, kinda all mute untill we see the new system in action

[flat sandal]

I recently considered leaving it on for a bit. maybe we are all wrong about it^^

[analog sigil]

Use rawaccel driver for good accel

I use linear

Uncapped

[flat sandal]

have to look into that

[flat sandal]

I always wondered in the back of my mind why it usually is on by default

[analog sigil]

Mouse accel for some aim styles means free speed and accuracy simultaneously

[flat sandal]

one day these creatures might inherit the earth^^

[flat sandal]

#feedback message
After reading this and a bunch of rounds that ended with cheap headshots, I realise that I quite agree with this. Headshots are a bit too easy to come by.

[crystal plume]

Simple shapes that are slightly larger than the actual model are generally ideal for hitboxes so it's just a sphere,

This is pretty normal in basically every game, not really surprising

[flat sandal]

that's fine but you could have two spheres in the head

and why is it ideal?

could be a capsule as well like in the arms

[next ember]

From what I've seen hunt does in fact do that. The hitboxes could use a lot of work, though

[flat sandal]

Hunt does what?

[next ember]

they use different shapes for different parts of the body

they just don't do it well enough

unless the head size of the dummys is different from the average head size of hunters

[flat sandal]

oh yeah, the question is if headshots are too common due to the hitboxes and if something should be done about it. Sure landing a headshot is satisfying but I'd rather have good whole fights and just get deleted randomly less often. The suggestion was to basically say that the game could introduce brain shots^^ If that up there is the actual hitbox in the game, I'm not so sure if that is ideal. Clearly it's that way cause it feels good and probably feels too hard to hit when it's smaller and really hard to one shot people at a distance or whatever. But what guy said seems to me objectively true, a lot of games these days is just running and getting killed by a headshot. I mean is it not? just now happened twice in a row by a guy I never knew was there, that's a lot of time. Bottom line is, the one hit potential is too high in too many situations imo

[crystal plume]

To me it's what makes the gunplay much more interesting, sure it sucks to die to a headshot instantly but it's also what allows even the weakest pistol to be able to outgun a mosin at it's appropriate range if you aim well enough

[flat sandal]

same would still be true

two tapping is also strong

also the mosin only oneshots in the head as well

I'm not even salty rn. I always felt that I see this headshot kill view a bit too often

what I didn't know is that we basically had a water melon for a head 😄

so should the one shot kill frequency be reduced. Hell yes imo cause too often you can't to anything at all about it, doesn't matter how good you are. you show your head, there is a chance to get hit in it, the chance depends on how big your head is.

[blissful jackal]

But the playing field is even for everyone. Their melon is just as big to be shot

[flat sandal]

yes sure, but the chance is quite high

[blissful jackal]

I mean there's no way to debate the chance of getting headshot it's luck or skill or both

The hitbox isn't like crazy huge or anything

[flat sandal]

but the size determines the chances

[next ember]

Well it is one of those things that is mostly skill once you have it down

But even then, there is always an element of luck

[blissful jackal]

So you want the head hitbox to be smaller

[next ember]

There are other factors such as ping and what not

[next ember]

This would make sense

[flat sandal]

yes but clearly there is a very strong correlation between head hitbox size and the amount of times ppl die by headshots

#feedback message

[blissful jackal]

What's the correlation. They die when they get headshot? There's no comparison to other sizes.

[flat sandal]

is was about this

no honestly, that is mathematically just so 😄

[blissful jackal]

I think the hitbox is fine, any smaller and you start running into shots that should clearly hit, missing

[flat sandal]

like imagine the hitbox size on x and nomber of desth by being hit in it on y

[blissful jackal]

There's already a problem with skins making heads looks bigger leading to shots missing when they look like they should hit

[next ember]

Well right now its the opposite issue

[next ember]

well if I shot someone and it skimmed their face they wouldn't die

[flat sandal]

did you see the video and picture?

[next ember]

sure it might take out a chunk of flesh but they might not die

[blissful jackal]

Yep

[next ember]

counter argument: those are dummys with no hair or anything. Just the head. Normal hunters will have facial features

but still, I think the hitbox should be reduced

[blissful jackal]

I don't care about realism it's a video game. You aren't going to instantly die in real life when u got shot in the toe and you are down a bar

[flat sandal]

it would still be somewhat satisfying to bit like you do now even if it doesnt kill

[next ember]

Cool and I care aboujt consistency. If someone does not hit my head I do not want them to 1 hit me

Make heads bigger for all I care

[blissful jackal]

So then what are you arguing

[next ember]

Make the hitbox match the model

[blissful jackal]

The problem with that is there's so many hunters with different geometry

[flat sandal]

thing is you never know that the shot didnt actually hit when you die so in the end it's about how things feel for the shooter and the shootee 😄

[blissful jackal]

Well you know it didn't hit when you don't get headshot

[next ember]

the head geometry should all be the same, a large beard or hat should have nothing to do with the hitbox

[blissful jackal]

Right now its like that

[flat sandal]

I mean when you die

[next ember]

Alright? So make the hitbox match the model if the head geometry is all the same

[blissful jackal]

I mean I die to high ping players all the time but I don't complain about hitbox I complain about ping

[flat sandal]

I see

[next ember]

Ping will always be an issue. If there is an inconsistency with the model and the hitbox it should be fixed

[flat sandal]

it's not really complaining, it's asking the question whether or not the game would be in a better place with a lower headshot kill frequency

[next ember]

I would think so but there might be a fix for that

[flat sandal]

the shapes not really fitting is on purpose

[next ember]

what purpose?

[flat sandal]

to feel good

[blissful jackal]

The hitbox is the same