feedback-discussion

[late quartz]

Neither would an anti lair camping mechanic

It would address one particular manifestation of a wider player behavior

There's a universe of nuance between Bounty Hunt, Soul Survivor and CoD. Addressing camping doesn't make bounty hunt quick play

[unborn smelt]

Yes - yes it does, for the most part

Because thats exactly how quickplay camee to be

Quickplay was the answer of the rampant camping issues with solo Hunt

[late quartz]

You seem to only wanna think in extreme black and white terms

There are a billion changes you could make to bounty hunt before it becomes quick play

You can't live in constant fear that any one change will avalanche you into the extreme other end of the spectrum

[unborn smelt]

I very much doubt that would work

[late quartz]

They just added instinct to bounty carrier... That's a MASSIVE change

[unborn smelt]

Because i've been part oof so many iterations of tried they did

[late quartz]

Is the game quick play now?

Nope lol

[unborn smelt]

And i literally saw QP develop as the answer to the rampant camping issue

[late quartz]

Which is a far more extreme change to the entire gamemode of bounty hunt than I'm suggesting lol

I don't want to change all of BH

[unborn smelt]

Ofc not - becausee the goal was never to adress camping in BH as much as wass needed for solo hunt

[late quartz]

Instinct is an anti camping mechanic

[unborn smelt]

Not really

[late quartz]

Selling it as a solo buff makes little sense when it affects all players, they could've made it a solo trait

[unborn smelt]

It still allows camping just fine - just gives people a heads up now

[late quartz]

It's the same as getting angry boss whispers localized around you lol

It's the same mechanic

[unborn smelt]

And that didn't really adress camping either

People still camp bosses just fine

[late quartz]

It completely changed how people do it... That's the point. This isn't all or nothing black and white

You keep framing it that way

[unborn smelt]

Because to my understanding you frame "camping" as an issue they just need to fix

And i'm trying to point out it isn't. Its an intended part of the game that needs some tweaks for sure, but it's not meant to be fixed like an unintended bug

Not intended to be fixed the way they needed to do with QP

[late quartz]

Sitting in boss lair for 10+ minutes is not necessary for the health or identity of the game. Passive play is good, aggressive play is good, both need to exist in some amount. right now the scales tilt too far toward passivity and it creates issues that should be address in a less dramatic way than completely changing the entire gamemode and objective of the game into quickplay lol

[unborn smelt]

Good point - i mightt be getting too tired by now to remember the inns and outs of this long discussio

[late quartz]

That's valid

It has been a while

[unborn smelt]

To a degree it is - because part of Hunts appeal is finding your ways to deal with specific scenarios

That includes breaching fortified positions

[queen jungle]

We have so many features at this point to make it easier to detect players waiting nearby... but I guess this will never end.

[unborn smelt]

Or if xou really feel uncomfortable trying that, also just leaving

[late quartz]

Yes. Pushing passive players is part of the game

The scale tilts too heavily against the aggressor though

[unborn smelt]

Ofc there needs to be a good balance between those options

[late quartz]

Don't REMOVE PASSIVE PLAY

[late quartz]

Knowing where players are isn't the issue at this point, the issue is that the toolset given to players to dislodge entrenched players are broadly not effective enough or too hard to replenish

[unborn smelt]

A camping team shouldn't mean you always have to leave - but equally so camping the lair should also be a valid option to get people to lesve or overcommit

IMO, these options need to be carefully weight against each other - and crytek are the ones with the data to do that call

[late quartz]

Crytek are the only ones who have the power to do anything

[unborn smelt]

Thats smth i don't feel like i have enough info about to make a good call

[late quartz]

Well, I'm willing to make suggestions, but moreso than anything I'm just not afraid of identifying the problem to start

[unborn smelt]

I do agree with large parts of the suggestions we talked about earlier

I just feel the problem lies elsewhere than you make it out to be.

Which is entirely fine... Good chance thats just down to playstyle

[late quartz]

I hate change for the sake of change, but as much as changing a live service game too much can destroy it, conservativism or fear of change can do an equal amount of harm

[unborn smelt]

And absolutely nothing prooves my feelings are right in that regard either

Currently

[unborn smelt]

I don't fear change itself, tbh.

[late quartz]

It seems like there is an underpinning of "any time we change things we risk destroying hunt" in a lot of your positions

And I'm like... amicable to that in a very broad sense

Hunt is a niche game and it could easily be watered down to appeal to the masses in a way that means we lose it forever

But in the specific conversations it feels like it passes into the realm of fear to do anything at all rather than a carefulness and consideration for what makes hunt special

[unborn smelt]

Well kinda - bit to be more specific it's: if we try to eradicate camping - i fear we loose what makes hunt Hunt

It's very specifically the "camping" part - because i saw with my own eyes what that has led to with QP

[late quartz]

Sure. I don't think we need to EXTERMINATE CAMPING IN ALL INSTANCES, and I think if that were somebody's position I'd probably be on your side tbh

Basically, my stance is that there's a large confluence of factors that all add up create very long periods of inactivity with groups of players in close proximity.

Instead of game objectives serving to spark or encourage PvP, they bring players together who then all feel unable to act.

This in particular is a problem, not that some players like to play passive

[final wren]

yo what is this bullshit, I just played 3 rounds soul surviver in a row and every game I encountered hunters trying to derank on purpose by not fighting at all. too bad I'm a 6*. they all had +2kd

[tiny pivot]

#feedback message Literally just make blade seer innate to hunters tbh if they're doing stuff line instinct on boosted darksight

[rotund condor]

Thoughts on Dual Wielding Hand Crossbows?

[tiny pivot]

It’s fine but the inaccuracy has to be pretty bad and/or the reload or it would be strong. Hand crossbow is already underrated

[wanton imp]

i'd rather not get hit with dragonbolts twice. but yeah it'd be pretty cool.

[hot vigil]

What about poison and dragonbolt

[queen jungle]

@glass fable Crytek does care and ban cheaters. And they did post ban numbers in the past, but if people want to see supposed cheaters to complain about, they will see supposed cheaters and complain about it. No matter how many get banned.

Here's a statement by our Senior Community Manager on the topic
#hunt-general message

@viscid frost Such feedback would likely cause legal issues regarding privacy laws, since the EU considers nicknames to be personal information (which is also why name&shame is not allowed - to protect people from possible legal action).

And there is no such thing as "latency abuse" or "ping abuse", it's just a made-up myth. https://youtu.be/fXEmbUkDkgo?si=uCpZsLHh3SC9EQZc

[queen jungle]

@karmic kettle Easy Anti Cheat has been the anti-cheat of Hunt ever since day one, it wasn't recently added.

[karmic kettle]

Weird how everyone, including mods, said they haven't.

[queen jungle]

You've been on this Discord for over a year and I assume you did play Hunt at the time you joined and you are really trying to tell me you never noticed the EAC window that pops up every time you launch the game ever since day one?

[karmic kettle]

It literally NEVER popped up until about 3 months ago wenn the prior event started and I have played this game on 2 different computers so you will not gaslight me into thinking that I missed it.

And I know for sure that this did not pop up for anyone else because when it suddenly did, we all talked about it.

[queen jungle]

Here is a post on the Hunt website from April 2020 talking about Easy Anti Cheat. https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/what-we-re-doing-about-cheaters-playing-hunt-showdown

And yes, the pop-up has always been there. I really don't know where you get the idea from that it was only added recently.

Easy Anti Cheat has been Hunt's anti-cheat of choice for almost six years.

[karmic kettle]

It was definitely not. I am in a discord call playing trios and they did not have this either.

So maybe you had this pop-up for whatever reason but we did definitely not.

[crystal plume]

Me and my friends have always had the pop up

[karmic kettle]

I swear to god and everything that is dear to me that I did not have this 100 %.

[normal horizon]

It's been there since closed alpha even

It just looks different now

But there was always an eac pop up on start up

Before it had the hunt key art 😄

[vital fractal]

Nixatek can you draw mama Maye and the bee lady having a cup of tea in a garden for me

Please

[crystal plume]

!nixa

[marsh garden]

Nixa only makes videos.

[vital fractal]

Nixatek can you make a video of mama Maye and the bee lady having a cup of tea in the garden for me***

Please

Or if I can have the models… I can do a lil something for the community

[teal parcel]

The popup definitely started to show only after one f the latest updates for me

[subtle lichen]

I used to get the bog standard EAC pop up, but it did recently change to show the Hunt title screen in the window while it was doing its thing.

[vital drum]

idk why you wouldn't get the pop up but either way Hunt has been using EAC from day 1 and here's proof in case you don't believe it: #troubleshooting message

[queen jungle]

@rare tide Reports do help.

A block list like you describe would enable people to manipulate the matchmaking process, which is something nobody can really want.

[pale gorge]

#game-ideas message

It took me a second read to understand but I really like this idea. When we pick up a nitro or avto from a dead hunter we usually consider them trophies and this would definitely further that aesthetic.

[hybrid forum]

@carmine radish blowing up metal doors is an absolutely genius idea. I think it should be added, but idk if it would change much since these metal gates only appear in few compounds

Unless you mean those crank doors

Then no, that'd suck

[hot vigil]

@queen jungle You are posting the M1870 Italian Vetterli, but the Vetterli in Hunt is the 1869/71 Swiss Carbine Vetterli.

Unless I miss understand what you are meaning :)

[nocturne pilot]

Hello, I am going to leave a request to add Middle East servers - why they are still not existent?

[queen jungle]

Hello, the devs have stated in the past that to add new server regions, those regions need to have sufficient active player numbers.

[queen jungle]

@vale blade You cannot play on other regions on your own if you have 300 ping, the limit is 225.

Ping abuse is a made-up myth, having a high ping does not give anybody any advantage.

Cheaters are not given "free reign". If you see a suspicious player, report them and Crytek will look into your report. But as the devs having stated in the past, this process is unfortunately slowed down by many people reporting players who are not cheating at all, but are simply better than them.

[flat sandal]

I've read it a few times now. By the Sculptor, don't let the ping abuse discussion come back. You are right to smack it down whenever it rears its ugly head 😄

Boys soon! Soon will be the great engine upgrade. No hiding after that one anymore Crytek 😄 Are there any news on it at all?

[queen jungle]

Hiding?

[flat sandal]

yes, I'm not being entirely serious. Rn we can always argue that the good things will come after

I'm weirdly excited about it. Wanna see what happens after^^

I hope the new map will be really big or something

I don't know about the scope of the added possibilities so my mind is going wild 😄

I honestly hope the game is not staying the same but rather will reach a completely new level while staying true to itself.

Anyway... 😄

Staying true to itself, for me, means keeping the frequency and intensity of fights and the gunplay the same. Other then that, let's get nuts 😄

this isn't even rare^^

[queen jungle]

@gritty sky Your message in #feedback was removed as the channel-specific rules prohibit discriminating against ethnicity or nationality

[gritty sky]

Okay remove my message but please do something, EVERY round i get shot by some fishy chinese player on EU servers. Thats not okay, looking at the stats around 6 players ouzt of 12 are chinese on EU servers. Have you ever played shooters before? Looking at the technical part, its not good for any shooter that the players have this much ping difference, and sadly as they come cheating is obvious in higher elos.... You know a chinese player told me that they come here because asia is unplayable there are so many cheater.... a CHINESE told me this.... and now they are flooding here as well

[flat sandal]

every round? really? It's cheaters fleeing from other cheaters then? You must be 6* and that has to be a 6* problem^^

get bad^^

bro honestly, if the discord had a discord with a feedback section I would make a post like yours about ppl walzing in with their unconscious biases. You really would have to work your case a bit and provide data. I assume you would end up being surprised^^

[flat sandal]

what stats did you look at?

[gritty sky]

end of 5-6 star, varies yeah, its quite annoying at this point. One of them was banned from another game 8 days ago... But definietly skill issue. Same as the 17.00 kd chinese guy, thats skill issue too

[flat sandal]

there are cheaters alright

[gritty sky]

I m looking at end of game team scores, i fight players a lot so most of the time i see almost every player by the end. 1-2 full team chinese players on EU

[flat sandal]

why you think this is not a problem in lower tiers?

[gritty sky]

I m sure its much better in 3-4 star lobbies, the mmr goes up for them fast but you know at higher mmr we like to play too

I m playing hunt since early access and it always had cheaters, like every other shooter BUT for a month now all these fishy chinese players...

At some point it gets annoying

[flat sandal]

it really isn't a problem where I play on EU. Why don't you go in a match solo and die and record them playing and report back? It should be easy to record a lot in a short amount of time

[gritty sky]

Even in early access i met cheaters but very few and when you reported them on the hunt support they got banned fast. LAst time i reported blatant cheaters they played for half a year more (i follow them on steam to see when the ban appears)

[gritty sky]

It is but i cannot post them here or reddit as its against the rules and you get banned. I have a collection already, i record my games. 🙂

[flat sandal]

I really can't speak to that. I just know that I see a lot of ppl talking about it but rarely showing any proof.. that to me is a sign for a bit of a bias type situation

post them on yt

[gritty sky]

Yeah but if you refer to that video you get banned. 🙂 I have seen that on reddit happen to many people who showed proof.

I save those videos too, but i cannot link them here

[flat sandal]

that would be weird

mods got anything to say to that?

well I have to go otherwise my dog poops on the floor but I would really like to know^^

[queen jungle]

If you encounter a suspicious player, all you need to do is to report them via the button in the post-match screen.
If you happen to have recordings of suspicious behaviour, report them via the website:#customer-support

All reports get looked into and action taken if necessary.

[flat sandal]

and can you post them on yt and link it here if you remove names and stuff?

[queen jungle]

If names are removed and it doesn't promote a violation of the game or Discord rules

[flat sandal]

nice edit 😉

okay ty. will have to check the rules then

seems like it should be allowed. I also don't think that ppl would get outright banned for this so as of now I assume banned ppl were a wee bit toxic about it 😄 but anyways, not my plaace to investigate this^^

[queen jungle]

The Swiss and Italian Vetterli's are essentially the same, with the Italian ones generally being modifed to be magazine fed similar to the supplied image, regardless even the unmodified Swiss-Italian Vetterli's require bullets to be in the lower magazine feed to be able to fire, the supplied diagram best shows the internal magazine mechanics with the lower round being moved to the bolt mechanism by the spring loaded rod which makes it visible in the mag feed.

[jagged vessel]

Hey. I buyed the game on friday and now i got banned. How is this happend and how can i proof that i didnt cheat?

i didnt cheat in bad af

im bad af

that dont make sense

[queen jungle]

@cinder panther Your post in #game-ideas was deleted for low effort as well as not being a game feature suggestion.

Word of advice: if you get this upset by such a small thing, you may want to take a break...

[pale spoke]

So. When do legendary hunters gets coherrent trait setups on recruit. Atm its borderline waste of money to even buy them. They get worst possible trait sets most of the time. So you have to rebuy them several times before you get anything useful.

[gritty sky]

People reporting increased amount of false positives, sadly Crytek wont discuss why you got banned. Try to contact support but dont expect much help sry mate.

[jagged vessel]

ok thank you dude. I live in germany and may i go to my lawyer cause i payed and they ban me with no reason

[queen jungle]

Contact Crytek's #customer-support they will give you more insight.

[jagged vessel]

Thank you. I wrote them a ticket 🙂

[edgy sparrow]

Never had the feeling that I encounter a cheater in this game.

[gritty sky]

Im glad though its weird. I mean this is the game where the game itself is so badly built that there are many death where its either a cheater, the game itself or luck. 😄 There wasnt many cheaters before but for a month now since the chinese arrived its really bad in higher mmrs on eu server. Met 17.00 kd players, a player who shot me through ardens main building just to see he was banned from another game 8 days ago. I mean i try not to look for them but there is a lot of fishy stuff going on, the huge ping difference is not helping either.

[edgy sparrow]

yeah ok I am a player between 3 and 4 star. Think we need a ping lock. So chinese cant join EU servers

[queen jungle]

I've maybe encountered three or four suspicious players over six years. Cheaters exist of course and it may have gotten more as the game has gotten more popular, but I've also met many, many people who considered everybody who killed them to be a cheater and reported them, even if nothing weird was going on.

[tribal wyvern]

Region lock makes sense, pretty much every fps has it, for just THAT reason. So people don't fuck up the games & make them less enjoyable, because you die "behind" a wall.
You think you got to safety but you died 2 seconds ago actually.

And if you queue Asian + EU, you get put in the best region for you both.

Doesnt mean its to counter cheating or abuse. But to not make the game feel shitty

But instead of making changes like that, that people have asked for since atleast 2022.
They make the dumbest changes breakign the entire game. New dolch versions, weekend events giving you double to triple the money. Giving every hunter top tier traits for what is it, 25% less?

So you get a hunter with fanning, doctor etc for 250hunt dollar. Every rotation.

Everyone is running the most expensive loadouts, compact stuff is out the window. Avto, dolch, mosins, lebels, crown & king. And you also get 3k hunt dollars on a bloodline lvl. 15x the money, for 4 times the xp.

No need to survive a game to get good traits, you get them by default for piss money

[sonic socket]

Hello Im just wondering what the motive is behind having 4 traits on regular recruitment hunters and only 3 on the legendary hunters which usually aren't very good ones but you find very nice ones on the 4 trait recruitment hunters more commonly then not

[queen jungle]

@hallow cosmos Your post in #game-ideas was deleted as it was not a new feature suggestion. Please report any bugs in the appropriate channels. If you want to express your dissatisfaction about bug fixing, #feedback allows you to give detailed feedback to Crytek.

[frozen crater]

@west hill The proposed magmatic pistol is a single action right?

how could it ever be viable without levering if its single action and does 74 damage?

[west hill]

Good point, probably through base rof to compensate for loadout size and levering rof

I was thinking between the nagant precision and derringer (for some reason)

[frozen crater]

I dont think weapons should require a trait to be considered viable. The terminus is an example that comes to mind, which is only good with levering. I think that requiring a trait for viability over other weapons is poor balancing

The crossbow is a good example of trait balancing, as it still packs a mean punch without bolt thrower but bolt thrower increases its quality of life significantly.

From what your post says it sounds honestly like a really strong tool slot weapon

rather than single slot weapon

[tribal wyvern]

Terminus is still viable, it's just better with the trait.
Samething with crossbow.

[west hill]

Though each gun is viable in the right hands with the proper amount of practice

[frozen crater]

Terminus is objectively bad without traits compared to all other shotguns it competes with

[tribal wyvern]

Cross is also pretty damn bad without the trait, you have to retreat for 6 seconds

[west hill]

In the same, a fanned uppercut is questionable even with the proposed benefit of faster rof; it's not an enhancement, it's a variable

[frozen crater]

Bolt thrower is a straight upgrade, but the base weapon is still very viable without it

I guess it depends on what our definiton of viable is

[tribal wyvern]

The levering for terminus is also straight up an upgrade.
It's a medium barrel iirc. So it has same spread as like rival

With specters RoF

[frozen crater]

For me, viability doesn't mean usability, it means that the weapon has a strength that others don't and can compete with them.

[frozen crater]

There is one downside to levering compared to bolt thrower. levering slows your hunter down significantly when hip firing.

[tribal wyvern]

You can still compete with the other shotguns with it.
Generally you both either die or 1 survives in a shotgun vs shotgun.

Terminus usually doesn't win vs other shotguns cuz it can spam faster.

If you shoot terminus vs romero & the romero makes a bad shot. You're not winning because of a higher rof

[frozen crater]

it has a 0.3 seconds slower chamber time than the specter

[frozen crater]

When I say competition, I don't mean how it competes with other shotguns in a direct fight, I mean how it competes with other shotguns selection wise

It can't compete with the attractiveness of other shotguns to the user because it statistically worse than every other shotgun when levering isn't involved

[tribal wyvern]

Personally I wouldn't touch it with levering either.

[frozen crater]

very true of hunt

but it doesnt mean that some guns arent objectively worse than others

and the terminus is one of those few because it is objectively worse than its competition without levering

[tribal wyvern]

@west hill Well usually its a case of dealing with the velocity more than the gun.
Going from officer to carbine or winfiled C to centennial, to mosin. They're the same guns but different velocity.

Where a gun actually differs is going from a rifle to a bow

[frozen crater]

regardless on thoughts of the terminus, a 74 damage single action single slot is questionable at best, objectionable if it requires a trait to be viable

[tribal wyvern]

Issue there is comparing shotguns with other shotguns, then taking a gun like crossbow, that has nothing else besides bow, in which case without trait i'd argue its horribly worse.

[frozen crater]

especially if its 74 damage at 10m when pistol ammo drops off at 20m

[frozen crater]

It is definitely worse without bolt thrower

But I would argue its still viable

Because it practically has no competition

[tribal wyvern]

But your viability argument is based on comparing it to its competition.

So a gun that has no competition cuz its the only one of its variant, is always viable ?

Regardless of how bad it is ?

[frozen crater]

No, its because crossbow is objectively good without bolt thrower, and its lack of competition solidifies the fact that you could always take it without bolt thrower

The lack of competition makes it so that it doesn't need a trait to be considered viable. It goes from an A or S tier weapon to B tier at worst.

[tribal wyvern]

I mean it has no competition, so even if it had 10 second reload, comparing to nothing, it's good.

[vital fractal]

That’s just false, how do you even look at a Winfield and a mosin and say “Enh just velocity difference”

[tribal wyvern]

Are you looking at the gun itself for viability or only comparing ?

[frozen crater]

If it had direct competition (IDK what crytek would release that would directly compete with the crossbow) that had a weapon that functioned at its peak (A or S tier) without a bolt thrower equivalent, then the crossbow would fall into the Terminus pit. Except it wouldn't be nearly as bad since a B tier crossbow competing with an A tier alternative is vastly different than a D tier non-levering Terminus competing with an A tier specter.

[tribal wyvern]

Well in the context it's true.

You're not chasing wallbangs with a winnie C do you ?

[frozen crater]

The ultimate difference between the 2 weapons is that the base crossbow is a much higher tier in its category than the base terminus is in its own category

[tribal wyvern]

Sure, whatever that means as it doesn't really say anything about the gun at all.

When crossbow has no other variants of its kind

Comparing my crossbow to nothing, it is THE BEST-

[frozen crater]

Is it that hard to imagine a hypothetical scenario where Crytek releases a similar weapon?

[tribal wyvern]

What?

[vital fractal]

Bro you are not taking into account anything that makes the weapons different at all and are just saying “mosin = Winfield except velocity”

I can’t see in what context that’s true

Like what

And to answer your question, yes yes you are with FMJ

[tribal wyvern]

You're taking it waaay to literal.
When you shoot at a guy running 50m away, what else than velocity do you take into acount ?

[vital fractal]

Damage, Cost of Ammo, Sound

Just three small things

[frozen crater]

I dont even know how to respond tbh

[vital fractal]

There’s more

[tribal wyvern]

You take cost of ammo into account when you shoot at someone ?

[vital fractal]

Exactly

It’s bait

[vital fractal]

Yes, is it worth it

This is bait

This has to be

[frozen crater]

I mean there are two issues being discussed here

[tribal wyvern]

If this is your take, then nothing else i say will matter.

You've made up your mind

[frozen crater]

the first one about terminus viability without levering is really debatable

[frozen crater]

but this is just wrong

[vital fractal]

Enh, it’s not as good without levering for sure- and needs traits to be useful beyond a basic shotgun with mediocre range I agree

But it’s fun

[frozen crater]

super fun

I love taking the base terminus on hunters regardless of if they have levering or not because its just cool

[vital fractal]

I prefer to actually kill so, slugs and crown and king or penny on other shotguns

[frozen crater]

but I definitely dont think that its a good choice since all other shotguns are better if no traits are involved

OH and special ammo

[vital fractal]

Seriously the spread on the terminus is so bad

So so bad, that buck shot feels like confetti

[frozen crater]

it was built with levering in mind which sucks

[vital fractal]

I need penny on it to be useful and yeah

[frozen crater]

spread is awful and rechamber is atrocious

[vital fractal]

That spread shows it lol

[frozen crater]

did terminus release before or after levering?

[tribal wyvern]

I guess i went into this one, with the mindset that no one would go for bodyshots with a compact, hence why "dmg" for me would not matter.

I can understand the ammo capacity, but theres so many ways to completly disregard it nowadays.
Hence why I wouldn't personally care there either.

Velocity when you shoot at someone is what you take into account. As its the only variable that differs wether you hit them or not.

If it's not penetrable you do not shoot.
As said you take it way to deep. I was merely speaking in much simpler terms.

But you took it as a indepth analysis

In compound battles theres many many more variables to take into account, AI nearby? Teammats ressable.
You can make your analysis 100ft deep.
But that wasnt my point

So theres no "bait" here, just you missunderstanding the discussion.

[vital fractal]

🗿

[shell sail]

yea after the last two rounds i hate rifles qwith scopes that players use. the damage is so cheep coimpared to anything else

im starting to think Escape from tarkov is gonna be better

its fun until i run into bolt action campers that just have no life

nothing in this game should be a damn oneshot. nothing. headshots is one thing but you already have a very limited ammount of hp why even have this set up so cheeply?

it benefits toxic gameplay vs actully trying to use other guns

the melee weapons have garbage balancing. the rifles are either fun or hot garbage mainly the shortened variation of the bolt actions can all go rot. garbage weapons meant only for camping goblins that only hunt players

and the gaarbage lobby system sucks so much. most of the time is crappy single bounty lobbies that being a camper fest no skill just hiding around. then toi make it even worse i have not seen one nighttime map since i move from playstation like 2 years ago?

only dark map i have seen is that trash made stormy map that seems to be a crappy rush mode where everyone spawns super close to each other

[rotund obsidian]

? What oneshots are you complaining about here? nitro?

also idk what you mean by 'very limited amount of hp' since healing exists

[weary fox]

Adding onto this point by tacomanx, no rifle can OHK you with the exception of the Nitro and headshots (Avto is a glorified shotgun). Since I've started playing (which is before Devil's moon but after Serpent's) the inclusion of the Regen shot has given us a safety net to save Medkits and such. Even if you don't run Regen, you have traits like Doctor, Frontiersmen, Packmule to increase the chances of getting healing back from looting.

[shell sail]

i really belive all bolt rifles save two can. i keep getting one shot by them wile even in brush. idk if its cehaters or just bad luck but im sick of it. its ewven worse with point blank bolt runners seemingly hacing cod snap shot

also wth is wrong with the wasp jars? they dont work at all

they wont go after players seemingly only me and will detect me through walls. and when they dont chase me they never do anything against a hostile player. trash item honestly

and foir gods sake please fix the garbage 40m audio cues. the fact that running around or walking is so loud makes most if not all noise traps pointless

[hot vigil]

1 tap to chest? Nope, they deal damage in the 120-136 range.

And noise traps can be heard further away than sprinting/walking so they still have a purpose.

[queen jungle]

@verbal marsh Nobidy connects to you in the UK, the EU servers are in Germany. And from western Russia, where most players are located, latency is about 50ms to the servers with a decent connection.

Last but not least, there is no advantage to having a high ping, that's a myth.

[verbal marsh]

Yea, that’s why I was saying east Russia and China. And that second part is a lie- I have screenshots and videos galore of being around and through solid rock and getting killed by a headshot without the through wall indicator due to ping- not to mention the significantly increased trade window it has.

[hot vigil]

Depends on the server model.
And that said there is upsides/downsides to high ping.
But Occam's razor is that if high ping was a clear advantage more pro-players in other competitive Esport games would queue into high ping servers to ladder climb.

[verbal marsh]

Which is something that they do. Especially east Russians. Lol

The amount of east Russians with 150+ ping that I’ve queued with mosin who do nothing but farm KD is staggering.

I queued into someone from Alaska two days ago. I live in east England.

[hot vigil]

Don't think you understand what Occam's razor means

[verbal marsh]

That’s 4.3 thousand miles

[hot vigil]

That said, I would say ping limit should be at 150m/s at its highest, even argue for 125m/s

[verbal marsh]

I definitely do. Simplest solution is often the most likely, or thereabouts. What’s your point

[hot vigil]

That if high ping was an advantage we would see more grandmaster pro-players in all sort of competitive (e-sport) games queue into high ping servers.

[verbal marsh]

I don’t think simplifying complex social issues and balance decisions/restrictions set in other games down to “why isn’t this happening everywhere?!?!” is a fair argument

Ping limits in other games along with vpn banning exists, especially in competitive scenes, and high tier competitive players are monitored twice as much as any other player

[teal parcel]

reminder
Also I don't think the current ping limit is a reason that you sometimes die behind cover or shots aren't registered, servers are just trash and can't handle load during heavy traffic.

[verbal marsh]

You say that but again, I routinely queue people from China and Alaska who are on the very other side of the planet to me

[hot vigil]

And what games are those? :)

[verbal marsh]

Cs does that

[verbal marsh]

Not quite sure what this reminder is meant to be for

[verbal marsh]

Pretty sure OW used to do that too, plus league

I think halo 5 had a similar system

Though you obviously couldn’t exactly vpn in that

[hot vigil]

Fair nuff, I take your word for it :)

Do know lol, just have region lock in general, but never read any statement it was due to ping-abuse.

[verbal marsh]

Man I wouldn’t trust a word I say, it’s 9am and I haven’t slept. I spew bs like a leech out of a meathead

[hot vigil]

Also as far I am aware, VPN cannot circumvent Hunt's ping limiter.

[verbal marsh]

I don’t think it can either but it’s more a general statement on Chinese and east Russian players using vpns to get onto eu servers in general

[hot vigil]

Oh yeah for sure, I think it would be most healthy if China at least got their own server (region locked), what I've seen from Asian players, there are a myriad of cultural issues with Chinese playerbase.

Also the regionlock does need to be tighter.

[verbal marsh]

Don’t even get me started, lol

[hot vigil]

Think it should have a limiter of 125m/s or nearest lowest ping you can get to (heart out for South Africa players).

[verbal marsh]

But yeah, just any kind of slightly stricter region based matchmaking would be nice. Once it gets past 2am literally every enemy player is some Russian dude with twelve crown and kings duct taped together around an avtomat with 200+ ping and a sniper scope for good luck

[hot vigil]

Yeah, also I feel it is just feed into the spiral of "X servers have no players bc they all play EU, so therefore I need to play EU"

[verbal marsh]

For sure

[hot vigil]

And then new players come in and play on their server and it feels like a dead game and they either drop it or jump to EU haha

[verbal marsh]

lmao

[verbal marsh]

Still not sure what this quote unquote reminder is for, lol

[teal parcel]

Some people here apparently think Russians play on EU server with 300 ping

[verbal marsh]

Yes. That’s because a lot of them do.

Just because yours is fine does not mean everyone else has good ping. A large majority of players are from east Russia which is about 170ms give or take, Siberia, and Alaska.

[subtle lichen]

I would be hard pressed to be convinced that a ping of 170ms would result in second long delays for hit reg. Sounds more like an engine or game issue that anything network related tbh.

170ms is 0.17 seconds. That's nothing.

[dull forge]

population density of Russia

[teal parcel]

Vast majority of Russians live in the European part and have sub 100ms ping

Also how do you fake your ping with vpn, can somebody explain? Just routing your packets through a remote host should achieve nothing except maybe routing them differently. The ping would still be calculated from the client to server, no?

[uncut wadi]

Not to be that guy but not sure where else to put it, there is currently a exploitive teaming epidemic on OCE servers where whole lobbies are just sitting in discord as solos.

Would be cool to see something done about this

[woven surge]

I just joined this server so idk if it's been discussed yet. Deadzone for Xbox isn't working. Are they working on this issue?

[queen jungle]

@queen jungle Why not just use the existing channels?

so people know you want to practice at the shooting range when they see the channel.

@echo spear Your post in #feedback was removed for being low effort

[queen jungle]

But you can just write something like "LF people to practice with" in LFG

I figured it would be easier for people to see Shooting Range (SR) trio / duos channels. 🤷‍♂️

Easier to get participants for a shooting range match, instead of persuading someone who joined expecting to go into a match.

[ripe basalt]

You can increase or decrease your ping with VPN's if you change your routing path to the server.

Your ISP will utilize a general routing path that will result in your normal ping (lets say 34). This path may include a well established or main node in a major city hundreds of miles out-of-the-way. If this path was optimized, your ping could be lower. Such as 24.

Instead, you could VPN through other states/cities and then routed back to the server location. This could increase your ping if you are VPN'ing to locations very far away (out of your country) and then routed back.

Sometimes, your routing infrastructure has traffic node problems which will incur packet loss/ingress at node between you and your end-location. Some VPN's will allow you to simply route around this problem by not using this infrastructure, allowing you to get a resolution without having your ISP investigate the problem.

Not all VPN's work the same, and not all allow routing. Most of them simply "tunnel" your connection to hide the contents from middle-men but your ISP will still handle the routing. Others, tunnel your connection and then reroute it after the first node to where you need it sent before having it reach your end location. This is all dependant on how the VPN works, what features it provides, ect.

Tl;Dr: You arn't directly connected to Hunts servers, you are taking metaphorical roads there. Sometimes, other GPS's result in faster (or slower) arrival times.

[echo spear]

fair

[supple narwhal]

EU server = i never play with other country than russian ! don't they have their own server ? beeing a little sick to never see my bullet hitting anything even at close range ! like shooting doesn't register and i am beeing hit twice in 0.1 second so maybe they should do something about their server ? cheeky little greddy dev XD

[zenith sigil]

Hey Hunters.. Is any report or acknowledgment of the insane Pop ups after this title update / Event. I have a fast SSD and 64 gb of ram plus my 8 gigs of Vram on my gpu ... Why are windows, bushes, roofs and AI taking so long to load, I have arrived at a clue and while capturing the armored shows up like it takes a long time to load. Have Hunt change the way they load their assests ?? I cannot be the only one seeing this...

[jagged wagon]

@zenith sigil This happens to me from time to time and seems to be more down to how well the server or your connection to it is performing than anything else.

[zenith sigil]

Thanks @jagged wagon ... Must be the server i have avery fast fiber internet conneciton. And this never happenned before the event.. it's all after latest update..

[jagged wagon]

It’s not constantly happening for me though, so might be worth validating your files in steam, or even a reinstall if it’s happening all the time.

[upper heron]

Hey did something change where you don't refresh your medkits from looting a hunter?

[late quartz]

No

[upper heron]

ok then that was a really bad bug then

[rotund obsidian]

#game-ideas message Curious as to why people don't like this one. I've been wanting the resil buff reverted for a while, but i'm curious to know why people think this would be a bad change?

[hot vigil]

had you used any other throwables or consumables?

[unborn dagger]

Im pretty sure ive had that happen one time and I was full on consumables. I think it gave me cash instead iirc

[paper whale]

Probably again the solo necro self revive advocates 😉

[rugged iron]

ye just make the trait useless again like they did with flashbomb

[paper whale]

How is 100 health useless?

[rugged iron]

because u get 1 tapped by pretty much anything

[paper whale]

Still enough stuff which does not one tap.

[rugged iron]

i guess if someone derringers you

[rotund obsidian]

From point blank by a 3-slot rifle, yeah. I think you should get 1 tapped there, though.

[rugged iron]

which makes the perk useless

like before

no one used it

same as old magpie

etc

you just dont like seeing someone use a perk that didnt „exist“ before because no one used it and it was trash

[paper whale]

No! You did not use it

[rotund obsidian]

? why would I care about a perk seeing use? I don't have some vendetta against it, resilience didn't kill my father or something.
I don't like seeing someone just facetank a winnie shot to the chest at point blank while standing up.

[paper whale]

Enough people used it before.

At least in 3-5. Can't speak for 6*

[rugged iron]

i am 6-5 and no one used it

ever

not worth taking just for that one compact ammo guy shooting u form 100 meters

might aswell buy adrenalin at that point

[paper whale]

Yes and 6* same as 1* are the minority percentage wise speaking. Thus things not being used there does not speak for the effectiveness for the majority

[rotund obsidian]

I think the trait could be made cheaper and it could be something like 101 health so that natural regen can kick in without a big bar.

If regen effect didn't also get the 5 second delay I'd say a brief regen effect but oh well.

I dunno. I just think it feels bad when someone can facetank a rifle immediately after a revive, and it also further adds to the weight of the 125 breakpoint for weapon damage.

It'd be different if it was only for normal revives, but when it works with necro, it's extra obnoxious

[rugged iron]

regen dosnt help with getting onetapped by a winnie

[rugged iron]

the people that did buy the trait are the same people that run adrenalin because they have no clue that there is better stuff

[rotund obsidian]

That is my entire point. It shouldn't.

[rugged iron]

ok then your point is making it useless again

do it the flashbomb way

just kick it from the game

[paper whale]

You only know the extremes.

[rugged iron]

theres a reason why crytek buffs perks

because low pick rat

rate*

[rotund obsidian]

Adrenaline pickrate just too high for a buff, eh? a shame.

I guess the officer carbine pickrate was too low when they buffed it?

[rugged iron]

ye people rarely used

it

[paper whale]

Nuh. Unpopular opinion but a games does not need 'fixing around' all the time just so you can say we are fixing stuff.

[frigid lily]

I actually still hardly ever see the Carbine honestly

[rugged iron]

its like ppl shitting on self necro

they just dont like a buff to soemthing that was useless before

[rugged iron]

same

see it an average of maybe 2x per day

[paper whale]

How was it useless? It was only useless for solos. And the game should not be catered around for solos in the first place

[rugged iron]

ye but might aswell make it fair

and resilience was useless even for trios

because it idnt make a difference

u get resd ur at 100hp u die to winnie

GG

useless perk

[paper whale]

No. Solos entered on their self risk and had to have skill. Why make it trivial? Let me guess you are one of those who want an easy mode for games like Dark Souls

[rugged iron]

nah man people like you that dont like solos have an advantage are just the people that dont want the people that they go against to have a fair fight

its the same stuff all the time

same as the ppl that go „self res op“

[rotund obsidian]

I honestly think solo necro is less of an offender here than normal necro

[rugged iron]

when somethign useless gets buffed and becomes viable theres always someone shitting about it being to good

always

just because they cant deal with the fact something became viable

[rotund obsidian]

Is resilience too good? probably not. Is it stupid? I think so. Let's make adrenaline save you from headshots but only on tuesdays at 10:43pm to 10:46pm.

[frigid lily]

sorry wrong chat lol

[rugged iron]

XD

[rugged iron]

why is it stupid?

explain

just because suddenly get a new ability because they have a perk

thats what perks should do

give buffs

[rotund obsidian]

Because you can facetank a round while standing up.

[rugged iron]

ye?

thats what perks are about

let me call doctor stupid because it heals u fullife

let me call necro stupid because i can suddenly revive from 20m

[rotund obsidian]

you're right, winfield was too strong and it needed something to bring it down a peg.

[paper whale]

Great assumption. I played solo before. Didn't need the ass kissing of crytek for it.

Solos got the mmr bonus. That wad enough. You just couldn't playb it before. Why should it be a fair fight? You enter 1 against 2/3 on your own choice. If you want the glory of it then deal with the consequences otherwise go in with mates

[rugged iron]

balancign soemthin about somethign bad in the game? so lets balance doctor arround derringer

[rugged iron]

the mmr bonus dosnt matter

3 4s have the advantage over 1 5

[paper whale]

Lol

[rugged iron]

it literealy dosnt

[paper whale]

It does

[rugged iron]

u still get matched against the same guys

[paper whale]

Now you are contradicting yourself

[rugged iron]

thats just how it is

for example theres the 00 clan that i often meat in trios

[paper whale]

When I play solo vs trio. I more often than not notice a strong difference in skill

[rugged iron]

still do as solo

[paper whale]

Mostly positioning and decision making. Not necessarily aim for that matter

[rugged iron]

and even if the 5* goes down and plays against the 4* they still have the advantage because theyr 3 ppl

6* is mostly aim

positioning is 5*

[rotund obsidian]

What exactly makes resilience good now if it was so useless before? The fact that it's an anti-winnie tool?

[paper whale]

Well you have to play to your strengths as a solo. Straight up fight should be benefit for the 3

[rugged iron]

the fact that it does somehting

your point with winnie is just stupid

liek i said lets balance everything about the lowest damage weapon in the game

[paper whale]

Using the chaos of a boss fight e.g. the solo shines

[rotund obsidian]

Let's see what guns are significantly affected by the resilience change (at least, within their effective range). Outside of guns that can two tap exceedingly fast or hit 125 (even with bleed) we've got: winfield, lemat carbine compact, conversion pistol, pax, scottie, krag, uppermat

If you exclude bleeds, you can throw on cenny and drilling

[rugged iron]

all guns except nitro are affected since the change

and other shotguns/bow/xbow

[rotund obsidian]

In falloff distance, sure.

[rugged iron]

ye its only the long ammo guns that still fuck u up because ur missing 25

which is like 5 guns in the game

which is how it should be

long ammo should always do more damage than ompact

[rotund obsidian]

I would argue that it's every gun besides the ones I listed that are unaffected within falloff range (either <100, >125, or are extremely fast)

[rugged iron]

anyways AFK rq

bb

brb*

[jagged wagon]

The drilling can’t 2 tap quickly?

[rotund obsidian]

that is a fair point, I slapped it on the list since I left it out of the original one cause of bleed

[rugged iron]

alr back

also even with long ammo it still is viable because of arm/leg shots

not only damage falloff

compared to before buff resilience has saved mre more than before

which is not hard because before it was pretty much 0

[rotund obsidian]

sure, resilience is more viable now, but it mostly mitigates weapons that are already on the weaker side. Above every other point I've made, though, is the fact that shooting somebody in the chest while standing up and them surviving feels bad.

I mean, even a sparks doesn't deal 100 damage to the arm, so that really only matters for lower chest

[rugged iron]

the weaker weapons will alawys be disadvantaged

that dosnt jsutify a perk nerf tho

justify*

you cant balance a bad gun around perks

the hunt economy is fucked up anyways so ppl use mosin all day for example

they have to fix the whole thing if they want to fix guns

not just tweak the stats

[rotund obsidian]

Then let's swing it the other way and make it so it gives you 125, plus 25 temp health. even less* guns can oneshot someone standing.

Disrupt the sacred ideal of the 125 breakpoint

[rugged iron]

i dont think you should make it give u ur lost bar back even

because then even the „good“ guns get screwed which they shouldnt

[rotund obsidian]

Let's call it around 5 seconds of temp health, just to tank that shot while you stand up.

[rugged iron]

a mosin should always be stronger than a winnie

its just that everyone uses mosin because its not rare or hard to get

[rotund obsidian]

but why should the mosin get this one-up over the winnie when it didn't before? I say either both should oneshot someone standing, or neither should.

[rugged iron]

well because mosin is the stronger calliber

its like lapua in tarkov

strogn guns should be strong

but the problem is that theyr not hard to get

[rotund obsidian]

I disagree, I think we should strive for balanced guns.

[rugged iron]

which makes he weaker guns bolete

obsolete*

the best way to balance the whole thing is by making the economy not fucked up

make it actualy hurt u buying a mosin

thats how it should be

not like oh i spend 490 of my 500k

make hunt dollars mean something

not just a number

that only goes up

if that problem is fixed then most other problems are solved too

[rotund obsidian]

I think we just want different things from the game. I want guns to be balanced, price be damned. You want expensive guns to be just outright better than cheaper guns.

[rugged iron]

let the strong guns be OP but just make them not appear in everyround because theyr cheap

its the only point why the game even has different prices on different guns

they try to do that

but they just fuck it up

because hunt dollars are not a resource rn theyr more like a stat that grows

they have practicly no use atm

[jagged wagon]

The Winnie shoots a lot faster than the mosin, has a much bigger ammo pool, doesn’t need reload management or a trait to deal with lost rounds for you, and is much cheaper… if every gun eas the same, the game would get very stale very fast.

[rugged iron]

i agree

every gun has its disadvantage

and advantages

sure nitro is always gonna outclass a winnie

but thats how it should be

i always take tarkov as an example economy wise

because thats one thing they nailed

[rotund obsidian]

I'm not saying to make every gun the same, I just think they should be balanced. Would you say the mosin is stronger than the winfield overall, without accounting for resilience? Do you think the resilience buff widens that power gap, or brings them closer?

[rugged iron]

it dosnt. but thats the point. you shouldnt balance perks just because the strong gun is being used often rn

its like crytek balancing guns around hun dollars instead of fixing the hunt dollar problem

they need to deal with the root of the porblem

[rotund obsidian]

quite frankly, the economy is fucked. I don't think it's even remotely salvageable if you want this to be a game like tarkov where equipment strengths vary to such a major degree. That's why I said we just want different things from the game. I don't want it to be anything like tarkov.

[rugged iron]

it is easily savable

[rotund obsidian]

Sure, just add wipes.

[rugged iron]

just reduce the amount of hunt dollars you get and remove every source except in raid sources

so u earn stuff buy playing

not just get 3k hunt dollars because u lost 5 rounds in a row

hunt is supposed to be a „hardcore“ shooter

u loose ur shit when u die

the only problem is

u can just buy it back for basicly free

rn crytek is just moving away from what they had as the idea of the game

they just seem to ignore the part about loosing stuff when you die

[rotund obsidian]

I'll agree that the bulk of that issue is from crytek being on this weird inbetween where they wanna stay an extraction shooter with punishing death and equipment imbalance, but also kinda shift into this arcadey battle royale where money is irrelevant.

[jagged wagon]

Depends on the engagement.. in close quarters the Winnie shines, esp with levering, at range, the mosin has the advantage. You can still put HV in the Winnie to match the mosins velo. You can still click heads out to 150m. If you’re caught in an unfavourable engagement for the weapon you are using, that’s either bad luck or bad play on your part, the gun is never to blame.

[rugged iron]

ye which is the main problem atm

they dont seem to know what they want

whih is holding stuff back

which*

either just make it „casual“ or „hardcore“ but not try to balance around something that isnt „in the game“

im fine if everything wouldbe free

or if its like hard to get stuff

they just need to decide so they can balance aorund it

around*

[late quartz]

Gun balance is important because it doesn't ultimately matter how much somebody spent on something outside of a match, if it feels unfair or frustrating to play against it's likely to detract from the experience.

Using price as a justification for "the strong guns being OP" doesn't feel compelling to a lot of people because within the context of a single match it's an unearned advantage.
This is the same reason why death cheat never really bugged me. I don't really care if people are running around with level 50 hunters because they can do it with or without death cheat. What I care about is whether or not level 50 hunters feel alright to fight, which for the most part I'd say yes (a few traits are problematic but all together I don't think the game collapses under the weight of a fully leveled hunter).

One of the issues with going "all guns have their ups and downs" is that in the context of an entire loadout, many options serve as compromises between values.
Does a winfield with levering have an advantage over a mosin in close range? Sure often it will, but I'd rather have a mosin + slug rival than a winny with levering and whatever second weapon you can think of.
Quartermaster existing means that a fully optimized loadout can easily be built to fill in any of the small gaps left by running a top tier weapon.

[radiant river]

Dolch 😄

[slim pollen]

@austere stone #game-ideas message

If that change was made someone could instantly use martialist upon getting up since it doesn't require stamina to swing.

[austere stone]

there's a 1 point trait that does that

Adrenaline

[slim pollen]

Most people run resilience which blocks adrenaline.

[rotund obsidian]

Stamina shot also kinda makes that point irrelevant. I figure it's a balance thing since the katana has nearly zero draw time and martialist doesn't require charging a heavy, so you could swing it basically the instant you have control of your character. Also it'd probably require a bit of under-the-hood stuff to stay sheathed, so more reason to not buff it like that.

[humble quest]

@fathom pier bloodless already sets all bleeds to light and they don't go up on multiple hits. How much better does it need to be

[tulip tapir]

no words for the s..it matchmaking again and again....6 stars with cheats are harvesting the whole server....

[azure dune]

@cursive cypress I see this being a bit of a problem. A bomb lance team pushes in, you kill the first but now you are choked for successfully killing a player and can't hit their teammates who don't need to aim to slash you apart, etc.

There's also no counter play to this, they can't dauntless it or try to attack the thrower. In a way, it seems kind of arbitrary.

[cursive cypress]

do you want me to clarify in the post that it would just drop the bomb with its fuse timer so dauntless counters?

[azure dune]

I think that's better

[cursive cypress]

I was thinking the cost should be high due to how disruptiv it could be

[azure dune]

I mean, if the perk triggers the situation is already going downhill. Other expensive perks like doctors and physicians help you avoid dying(hopefully).

It also self-counters necros because you'll cough on rez, and also prevents stealth revives.

So you are actually giving up quite a bit to use the perk. I think it would have to cheap to see use.

[frozen crater]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-crying-baby-crying-gif-7234455624545360372

out of all dev studios to insult you choose Crytek???

[hot vigil]

@cursive cypress THE main complaint about solo-necro is the time people have to waste to burn a solo thru or wait to check if they get up again.
Matyr trait would just add an additional timer to that.
In short, an awful idea that would only make an already huge problem even larger.

[tiny pivot]

Make it pull any consumable bomb, now that would be fun, not chokes which just makes solos more oppressive

I could imagine it being a funny gimmick, like you have a good chance to drop a Dynamite you have but at the same time you have just as much of a chance to drop a fire bomb directly onto your corpse :^)

[zinc sparrow]

@quartz socket just read your last idea, sounds cool, just 1 problem I see with it: if it is only available ingame, how are you supposed to unlock mastery for it? Missing one of the “unique” weapons would mean a collector would have to “grind” workbenches trying to find a rare gun.

Edit: typo

[quartz socket]

I think that having it be exclusive to the game would make it more appealing to collectors then anything. Also, the mastery for the weapon could just be finding it, and it could maybe give you a bit of a backstory as to why it was made in the book of weapons. How's this grind different from finding one of the rare traits?

[zinc sparrow]

The rare traits don’t have a mastery, that’s the difference.

[quartz socket]

Why would the rare weapons need it?

[zinc sparrow]

Because all weapons have it.

Just none of the traits, not a great comparison imo

[quartz socket]

yeah my point is just that it doesn't need to be perfectly consistent with the 'normal' weapons. I think that the mastery for it could just involve extracting with it a single time, then you unlock the entry

[zinc sparrow]

Which would make unlocking all entries a luck based system, since you have to find multiple rare weapons in different lobbies.

[quartz socket]

most people don't give a shit about mastery anyways, why would that of all things be the problem

[zinc sparrow]

It’s not a problem, just a thing to consider

[quartz socket]

the only real issue I could see is that it would bring a greater degree of unpredictability into matches, although hunt games are already quite unpredictable

[zinc sparrow]

One problem I see with this: how would you balance these weapons? Reducing the chance of finding it wouldn’t change anything and you can’t change the price, which is the most used nerf

[quartz socket]

they would and should be more powerful then your average weapon, with the fact that there is no consistent way of getting being the balancing factor

it's fine if they are stronger since they aren't competing with the rest of the weapon pool most of the time

[zinc sparrow]

“Most of the time”. So players with a lot of playtime and a lot of these unique weapons have another advantage on newer players. Sounds like an Avtomat to me.

[quartz socket]

how on earth would this advantage long-time players when getting them is completely random and you can only use them once per find

[zinc sparrow]

So you cannot take them out?

You just said that you should extract with them

[quartz socket]

you can

but a long time player wont find them any more often then a newer one

[zinc sparrow]

Giving more experienced players more chances to find and hord them

[quartz socket]

the fact that they could hoard them does not mean that they can use them more often on average

if a player spends 100 hours hoarding them and gets, lets say, 30 of them, then they will have to spend another 100 hours hoarding and playing without them to get another 30

[zinc sparrow]

Yes, but they will have a very high advantage against all other players, ruining the odds for casual and new players

[quartz socket]

not a very high advantage, none of these are intended to be as uncounterable as the avto

[zinc sparrow]

In comparison, If you gave a player 3 nitros for every 10 hours they play, the game would give to shit because the balance would go way of.

[quartz socket]

like a specter with 3 more rounds or a lebel with a speedloader would definitely be stronger then their base varaints, but they wouldn't single handedly change the game

the idea is something you would take over most other variants of said weapon, not every one being the strongest weapon in the game

[zinc sparrow]

How would you accurately balance these? You can’t get accurate stats if they can’t be tested like other guns since you can’t just use them like other guns

[quartz socket]

those 3 weapons would likely be a slightly better scottfield, a slightly better mosin, and a slightly better rival or somehting like this

they are rare enough that the ballance doesn't have to be perfect, but it's pretty easy to avoid something gamebreaking, and if something is really that overpowered, people will complain about it and they'll notice

[quartz socket]

run test servers where everyone has access to the unique variantrs

[zinc sparrow]

That balancing won’t include the fact that they are rare weapons which is the whole point if balancing them differently

[quartz socket]

yes, but if the ballancing is just to make sure that none of them are so bad that no one wants to use them or so strong that they shred the entire meta then something would be done

you seem to think that ballancing needs to have no margin of error, when in reality the scarcity allows for a pretty significant one, since most matches will be completely unnafected regardless

[zinc sparrow]

You make it sound like the odds of finding a weapon like this are so small that basically no one will be affected by it.

Then why even add it?

[quartz socket]

the idea is that they would be about as common as the rare burn traits

that is to say, you'd maybe find one once every ten games or so

[zinc sparrow]

There’s a big difference between no margin of error and balancing it a little so it doesn’t break the game

[quartz socket]

which is exactly what can be done just fine in testing environments

[zinc sparrow]

The test servers don’t reflect the average player base and don’t include rarity as a balancing factor which is your biggest point in them being stronger than other guns

[quartz socket]

none of those are necesary to determine if a weapon is outright broken

[zinc sparrow]

You can’t release an update full of weapons if all you checked is “nah they probably won’t break the game”

That’s bad practice and should be avoided with all mechanics

You don’t have to balance it 100%, yes, but “not broken” doesn’t mean balanced in the slightest

[quartz socket]

if you find on average one of the weapons every 10 games and there are like 40-50 different ones that can be found, that means that each individual weapon would be found once every ~450 games, or about once every 200 ish hours. They don't even need to be that ballanced because they'll so rarely be competing with each other and are intended to be better then the base variants anyways

[zinc sparrow]

@frank parcel would that XP just be available to guns found in trials or should you be able to bring contraband weapons in for XP?

[zinc sparrow]

You’re talking about adding 40-50 weapons like its nothing

[quartz socket]

anyways, that's the end of my argument. if you have issues with it, fine, but I don't really see the point in arguing over all these technical details

[zinc sparrow]

And since most players won’t see most guns ever, it just seems like wasted effort to me

[frank parcel]

Why would Trials be relevant to this? I'm talking about contraband weapons extracted from Bounty Hunt matches

[zinc sparrow]

Thats fine, I’m just trying to get as many details as possible so that if the idea gets noticed, they know exactly what you had in mind when posting it :)

[frank parcel]

Can you extract weapons from trials? That would be news to me

[zinc sparrow]

Sorry I ment rounds, not trials

[frank parcel]

Ah np

but yeah I think the contraband dissolving wouldn't throw too much out of whack or anything

[quartz socket]

didn't mean anything by this, I just think I've said what I needed to say

[frank parcel]

It's still beyond the player's control, just like workbench spawns

[zinc sparrow]

So the gun would basically be “marked” for conversion for the match and be exchanged after extract, sounds cool!

[zinc sparrow]

I’m guessing it would only work if you extracted with the gun?

[frank parcel]

Actually, I just meant that you could do this to any contraband in your weapon inventory; marking it for conversion mid-match does sound cooler though

Maybe you could do it at resups

Hm

[zinc sparrow]

I misread. You mentioned workbenches and thought you wanted to add a feature to them.

[frank parcel]

oooo

That sounds good too

Press F to mark for exchange

[zinc sparrow]

I hope some form of this gets added

[frank parcel]

For sure. Oil/blueprint spawns are cool, but a little thin on the ground

[zinc sparrow]

Yeah, for me personally they are useless now too because I got all the unlocks

[frank parcel]

Normally, you look at the ground after a fight and your eyes glaze over all the vandals and nagants in favor of the C&Ks and the spitzer long guns

With this change, the choice is more complex

[zinc sparrow]

Yeah, could bring more variety too with XP incentives

E.g. people pricking CB over meta for the XP

[frank parcel]

Yup. you win a fight early on and say "oooo I want xp for this gun." and then you have to contest the bounty with a gun you didn't think you'd be taking into this mission

Granted you could just leave the gun there and come back after LOL

[zinc sparrow]

“Ah, no ammo in the nitro, I’ll get it after”
extracts with Winfield

[frank parcel]

oopsie!

[signal mural]

@wanton imp Being able to custom name Hunters only invites toxic players to design racist, sexist, or otherwise hurtful names something no community needs. Even with filters they will just use odd references & lettering and reporting players for stuff like that gets old quick.

[wanton imp]

Didn't think about that. but i think you can't see another players hunter name only their steam/console name?

an alternative solution to unsavory names is that you can only choose names from the regular hunter name pool.

[signal mural]

Even in random teams no one wants or deserves to see that stuff

[wanton imp]

oh i didn't know you could see a hunters name in randoms. (because i've never played with randos.) anyway ill just edit my suggest for the alternative idea.

[signal mural]

If my random duos "ally" is " Racist slur Killer " I'll be getting flagged for team killing

[lament ginkgo]

@dull prawn you are right instaburning is now meta, But it is meta because of the solo revive mechanic. People got shot in the back from solos reviving them self and the meta adjusted (which also carries over to burning team players, in trios you cant always be sure if its a solo joining the fight or another team etc.). Solo revive should never exist outside of events or even better not at all, (in my opinion). It is not fun to get shot in the back by an already dead player just because you don't camp their body for 10 minutes. Thats why i always burn bodys or trap them quickly too.

[subtle lichen]

I don't agree that Necro should be curtailed so dramatically, but I do agree that having wider access to burn mechanics is honestly fine.

Camping a solo while the game is progressing without you is honestly not fun. Being able to speed up what in reality is inevitable isn't a huge issue.

[dull prawn]

I'm with Toxic on this - I'll admit that Self Revive was annoying to deal with, but the solution wasn't "let's make it entirely useless", there were (and are) better ways to balance that mechanic than making it obsolete

I'd honestly be fine with the burn mechanics if they just revamped self revive

[subtle lichen]

I think that if it was a burn trait, and the amount of time you could play dead was curtailed to something more reasonable, like say 5 minutes, that'd be less of an issue than some guy literally tasting dirt for 40 minutes and then getting up and camping an extract.

[sudden drum]

is this balanced at all? i just killed this dude with a bow aiming to his fingers(he was full health they just killed boss)

[crystal plume]

I mean arm hitbox is just arm hitbox, there's no separate hitbox for high/low arm or fingers or such

[sudden drum]

still 150 dmg in arm is insane

[glad cliff]

depends on range, the bow does more than 200 riight? with the trait even more if i remember correctly

[subtle lichen]

Given it's other drawbacks (HA! Geddit?), I think giving it decent power is fine.

[crystal plume]

Only to around 6 meters with hundred hands

[bold valley]

@visual cargo i think it would be really cool to have something potentially alter the look, feel and play of a level in a dramatic way. However, I don't think you should sacrifice a bounty token, as there would be little benefit in doing so.

It think it would make more sense to be a case of "you have the right items, or did the right things during a match and happened to get there first"

[hot vigil]

@dull prawn I am the same point as you, I just clock in my weeklies until I get the battlepass done and then I'm taking a long Hunt break, mix of triple awful event additions with "flavour of the season bullshit", weapon variant/ammo bloat and grind have really drained my enthusiasm for this game.
And it is frustrating to see a burning meta unfold because Crytek refuses to address (mostly Solo) Nerco as a whole.
If we more reliably knew that bodies stayed down, we wouldn't have ended up burning everyone.

[dull prawn]

Yeah, I used to love playing with self revive since I prefer solo play and it gave me a way to get up and either press on or extract after losing a gunfight, but ever since the last major patch it's literally pointless to even run it - and I understand why. Not knowing if the player you just killed is going to get back up or not is frustrating as hell and I also know its not fun at all to have to sit and babysit a dead solo just to make sure they stay dead.

I suggested a solution wherein self revive essentially gave you one "respawn" token and you'd pop up somewhere else on the map (at least 250m away from your body) and then you'd need to either banish or loot a dead hunter to replenish your extra life, and if somebody used the ability it'd turn their body into an obvious glowing ash pile, but even that might not be the ideal solution.

I firmly believe that there should be a way to make solo play more viable and Necro used to sort of do that, but now? it's just a waste of a trait slot 9 times out of 10 cause people just body camp you while you burn - meanwhile on the opposite end of the spectrum teams have to waste their goddamn time burning everybody they kill just in case

[visual cargo]

Think of it as a double down, it summons a harder/more worth while bounty

Double the time and danger, double the reward for playing and paying the sacrifice of a bounty token

Imagine going to the center of the map, dropping the bountie (a skull) on to a voodoo style alter, and then it starts to rain, and you hear it

[bold valley]

main thing is that by the time you have a bounty token, you either don't have the luxury of messing around cause there are still other teams, or you do cause everyone else is dead (at which point why bother tactically altering the map?)

Doing something that would screw over a bounty carrying team, and maybe slow them down so that you can catch up, due to some map change would have a much greater impact

[humble quest]

Yeah being a thing you do with a token sounds a lot like a win more situation

[visual cargo]

Yes most of the time thats correct, but this if you have the time

[visual cargo]

This is just a brainstorm as to events that could be added

[bold valley]

like. if say setting fires to X many preset spots in a line of trees within a certain window of time, lets the whole line of trees go up, blocking that area off, that has a lot of tactical implication

[visual cargo]

Yes, map events would change the way a lot of us can play

Wether its the implication of changing terrain, or the implication of making it hard for others to hid and or run away

It means everyone has to adapt to the match, not just pew pew a few mobs to death

I like the implication of a whole map flooding with water and everyone having to avoid water, because things lurk in deeper water, things we cant just fight

It would also make bounties spawn in less areas

Making power plays luke guessing a spawn location a genuine tactic

Granted all the hostile mobs would be water devils and anything lucky enough not to drown

[hot vigil]

Think a "respawn" would be even worse haha, that would just mean that a team can lock down a solo, but then "woops" solos got away and now have new angle on you. Imagine winning a fight and then your opponent just gets a freebie to either shoot you in the back or death cheat.
Remember a "relocated" solo still have all the info of how many of your team is, where you were when you killed them and most likely where you are going as to be in the same are to shoot each other, you most likely have the same clue pattern on the map.

Think we should just come to term with that you CANNOT balance a game for solos and teams, we need to choose which one that should be the "core" balance point.

Honestly cutting solos out from trios would do a lot for the quality of the matches to begin with.
Solo vs. duo is easier to blance around than solo vs. trios.

[dull prawn]

If the solo revive mechanic I suggested were implemented there'd be a few safeguards in place to prevent this exact thing.

1. if you respawn, you are at minimum 250m away from your body, and more likely than not you'll be even further. Knowing a team's location in Scupper Lake won't help you much if you respawn at Devant.
2. If you die again after respawning, you're dead for good. In order to recharge the respawn you need to either banish a boss or loot a dead hunter, neither of which is really viable if you're trying to rush to the place you died last and get the jump on the enemy team.
3. You respawn minus whatever health chunks you lost, so if you rush back into the fight you're doing so at a disadvantage.
4. Respawning creates a loud noise, a flash of light, and leaves a glowing "post-banish" ash pile behind, very clearly telegraphing to the enemy team that you were a solo who just revived, and if they run into you again, you'll likely be down a health chunk and without any extra lives.

All that said? There's probably a better balancing solution to make it so that self-revive is viable but not annoying to deal with. The easy solution would to just merge it with Death Cheat, so if you die you're out of that game but you can keep your Hunter and try again, making solo play less risky in the long run but still challenging during the match.

Whatever solution Crytek goes with, the do need to do something soon, because right now the state of play in Hunt - especially for solos - is pretty miserable, and the instaburn meta sucks for everybody.

[hot vigil]

1. Still a free relocate, mean you would NEVER be able to kill a solo player completely.
2. That should just be standard for Necro in general.
3. The past 3 events we have gotten tools to regain health bars, so hardly a set-back anymore, more so by your 2nd point you'd go for a banish anyway and rotjaw is basically a free banish nowadays for half of the weather conditions.
4. Sure, but you still get away safely WITH NO COUNTERPLAY.

It is absolutely the worst kind of way to balance solo-necro and I will guarantee you get real fucking sick of having to kill the same guy 5 times guaranteed because they just get away for free everytime. It makes solo necro so safe that the only balance point is that if people cares about their KDA, otherwise they can just keep respawning until they have 50hp and then extract.

The solo-necro balance I want is just put a 13 second timer on your revive after you get solo-necro enabled.
Miss that timer and you stay down for good.

"That would make solo necro useless", no it would make it have a purpose to negate trades and 200m headshots deaths.
Not to be "I can just go browse reddit for 7 min and then revive".

[dull prawn]

This would not solve the problem with solo rez right now which is that it is essentially useless, all it does in its current state is feed kills to your enemy team - which is great if you're a 5 or 6 star trying to artificially lower your MMR so you can get into easier lobbies and curbstomp casual players, but if you're anybody else it's just frustrating for both the solo player and the team they're fighting.

Forcing the respawn would only make this issue worse, and giving only a single free revive on top of that would make it entirely pointless, taking necro as a solo at that point would 9 times out of 10 just result in you giving any team that downs you double the kills, with that extra 1 time being when you die to a lag trade.

The idea behind solo rez being added was to make solo play more viable so that solo players could have some chance against teams. Now, you may not personally agree with that idea in principle - a lot of people don't - but it's pretty obviously the intention behind the feature. I'm of the mind that it's a good concept to build on, but the way it's implemented right now is incredibly flawed and the meta has shifted so hard in response that it's essentially a waste of space.

I'm not saying your counterpoints to my idea are invalid, you bring up some good points - higher skill players could definitely wreak some havoc in solo play using a free relocate. But I also don't agree with your proposed "fix" as it doesn't actually fix anything about solo play and would, imo, only make it more useless than it already is

[hot vigil]

As I said, current and my proposed tweaked solo-necro ain't useless, just ain't free.
Pre-Solo Necro, the main complain from solo players were the amount of downtime you had when you had to be sent to a lobby, restock a new hunter and queue up again and just having matches to be over from a 200m headshot or trading with the last person on an enemy team.
Current solo necro fixes all that, it worse fine when you get sniped and when you trade with the last person on the team.
But I feel like people are delusional to expect solo necro can do more than that. And peoples willingness to lay down for 10 min doing nothing is a clear sign that the "get sent back to lobby downtime" weren't that much of an issue to begin with.

Capping solo-necro with timer would give a clear idea what purpose solo-necro serves not make it worse, just makes sure that it ain't being abused.

Otherwise, just make me able to opt-out from solo queuing with me, then they can all the traits they want with people who want to play with them? 🤷‍♂️

[dull prawn]

I think you and I just have vastly different opinions on what solo revive is meant to do for the player. I've always seen it as an attempt to make solo play more viable - which it used to do, but this came at the cost of making solos a pain to deal with.

You seem to think that self revive's only purpose is to survive trades or similar situations, hence your ideal "fix" being to make it good for this and nothing else. To my mind this makes the trait too situational to have any real use in solo play, and I stand by that opinion. I think in this case we're just gonna need to agree to disagree since you clearly don't see the intention behind the feature the way I do

[teal parcel]

Solo players don't just want to play solo, they want to play solo against teams with significantly lower skill, and with addition of solo perks. I fail to see what benefits are there for teams to fight a solo player instead of a team. There is a special mode designed for solo players, but its only popular for lowering your mmr, I wonder why.

[hot vigil]

Solo was always viable, you get noise advantage over teams.
But solo, by the devs own words "the optional hardmode" for players who seeks an extra challenge.
Yes, I do think people should be able to play Hunt solo, but getting more money, worse opponents and then "special treatment" for WILLINGLY going into the hard game-mode is silly to me.
Hence I think solo players and their effect should be as unobtrusive as possible to people who just wanna play the game normally.

This is how I see solo players come across sometimes.

[dull prawn]

again, agree to disagree. Prior to the Necromancer update I pretty much never saw solo players, and when I did, they were pretty much always keeping to the fringes of the map and farming money or event points. It was basically pointless to play solo.

Self revive changed solo into a valid option, not just an optional (and pointless) hard mode. Its implementation at inception was subject to a lot of discourse, sure, but for a while it genuinely did make solo play something other than a one-sided curbstomp for no real benifit.

Now, however, the meta has shifted so much that all self revive does is get exploited and annoy people. My ideal solution is one that allows solo play to be viable, but that is unobtrusive to team play, just as you said.

Don't see much point in continuing in this circular rhetoric though, it's almost 5am here so I'm off to bed

[hot vigil]

I can tell you, you cannot make solo players unobtrusive without making them have the weaknesses a solo player have vs. teams.

[queen jungle]

Maybe we can compromise and only remove half of the headsman. You can choose which half.

[unborn dagger]

Such an accurate image lol

[reef violet]

Never once in playing against solos with revive did it feel good for either side. The problem you talked about in your original post about getting camped and insta burned already was happening. Albeit at the time in the form of trapping since burning was less accessible at the time.
Case: Solo Revive has NEVER been in a good spot that everyone is happy with.

With the advent of burning being more kit accessible it means that if a team has control over a solos body they don’t have the wait as long to get back into the game.

[unborn dagger]

@charred pine you have so many ways of dealing with concertina now and especially with the most recent patch. Heavy knife, talons, axe, katana, dynamite, and now decoy fusees

[hot vigil]

This

[viscid frost]

And stalker beetles 🙂

[unborn dagger]

Indeed!

[verbal marsh]

and @hot vigil Being on equal terms isnt is exactly obtrusive. Giving people a fair chance to actually play the game isn't obtrusive. Dragging the mmr system into being a solo issue is just kinda stupid, when the mrr is famously dogwater in this game. Do you want every single duo player you kill to just be out of the match and not get a chance to revive? Cus that's the state of the game now

I kill 7 people and then die to some rat in a bush with a mosin sniper duct taped to his avtomat with chain fanning in his pocket who then just sits on top of me with flare gun/fusees and thats the end of my game

What makes games fun is interactivity, in this case, having the back and forth, cat and mouse of "i need to find a trap or lantern while still keeping line of sight or they might get up" or "so i push and try to get closer so i can burn or trap, or do i stay here and wait for their res so i can shoot them and give myself more time" is an excellent dynamic that gives both a chance for the solo to make a comeback and plenty of counterplay for the team

Necro on solo is very very easily counterable if you mash a few neurons together, there's plenty you can do about someone you suspect is a solo with necro without just denying any comeback 100% of the time, all the time

Solo isn't just "hard mode", it's also just a queue for people who want to play by themselves. No matter how many buffs you give solo they still aren't going to outperform duos unless there is an actual skill difference, and that's like, the entire point of games lol. I just died to two stars because the two of them rushed me at the same time from the same door. I one shot one of them with my specter but the other guy got me with drilling slugs, because I literally just can't do anything about that as a solo. That is fair, because they outnumber me and I was pushed ahead too far. That's how solo works

What isn't fair is that they spend the next 5 minutes just sitting on my corpse while the bounty team is around the corner and neither of them move while that team just throws fusees on me every time I get up, loots me, gets their fusees back, then burns me again. Since they don't even have to move or consider any actual tactics them and the bounty team just dont move at all, and literally the second they ran out of fusees and had to go get a lantern they got pushed by someone else because they actually had to engage with the game

The game right now is in a massive state of "switch off brain, win big game", where all you need to do to win is roll a character with doctor or fanning, bring the strongest traits and strongest guns, bring fusees or flare gun, add bleed or fire ammo to everything and then just hold m1 whenever you see a person

It's just criminally unfun for anyone actually trying to enjoy themselves and play with things they enjoy rather than the strongest thing available to them. The entire community raged and screamed when cheat death first came out because it "meant everyone always had their win buttons". Now people literally just start with them, and people are defending it

If you're gonna have a game that's supposedly hardcore and very skill demanding, why then introduce all these very low skill ceiling, very high reward features, and STILL have such heavy consequences for dying? I just don't get it, lol

[queen jungle]

Solo Bounty Hunt is exactly that: hard mode. Hunt's dedicated solo mode is Quickplay/Soul Survivor.

And personally I'd like all the solo buffs removed again from BH

[verbal marsh]

That would be a compelling argument if soul survivor wasnt just awful

[verbal marsh]

Any context behind that or just stating it?

[queen jungle]

In my opinion the addition of self-revive, lower MMR and stuff has watered down the challenge solo used to be.

[verbal marsh]

And yeah, I already said that it's meant to be hard mode. There's a difference between "hard" and "unfair". For something hard to still be fun it needs to be fair. Take dark souls for example- super hard game to get into, super steep skill ceiling, but then you get better and you stand a chance and you can play the game

[queen jungle]

If you consider QP awful, you have no idea how bad solo queue bounty hunt was when it existed.

[verbal marsh]

I do. I played during that time and it was atrocious

[verbal marsh]

Again, bringing "lower mmr" into this is kinda a non argument when mmr is already and extremely big issue on its own

And the challenge it used to be was hardly a challenge, it was just extremely luck based. You had to play like a rat, not engage in any fights, just watch thigns from afar and take potshots, and pray someone doesnt get a lucky headshot or that you dont randomly get sandwiched or that they dont have an avto or crown and king or nitro, or that they dont just throw the game to chase you and let the bounty get away etc

[queen jungle]

Not really, the biggest issue with MMR is that you cannot and will never satisfy everybody. We've had several very different installments of MMR in Hunt and there's always players unhappy.

Some want very fair matches, others want full matches, etc etc. Hunt doesn't have the player numbers to provide both.

[verbal marsh]

Challenge =/= rng and unfairness

[queen jungle]

The MMR system itself is no different to other games' as there are only really two different MMR systems used in gaming (somebody linked an interesting video about this in the past, but I fail to find it).

[verbal marsh]

And yeah I get that, I'm referring to how inaccurate the mmr system is in general and how poor the matchmaking is in even sticking to that system

Regardless, the MMR system in Hunt is widely regarded as ineffective and an issue in and of itself, so going "well solo is fair because it gives you a higher chance of going against people who have slightly lower mmr than you" when it both DOESNT, and also doesnt really mean much when the mmr system doesn't work

I am currently three star again, went down two stars since i last played before tide of desolation. Only one person out of the ten other players in the lobby had less than three stars and they were a two star playing with their three star buddy. "solo give lower mmr" is hardly a valid argument

[teal parcel]

If MMR boost is not an issue, then you agree we should remove it get, right?

[verbal marsh]

Yep, I sure do

[queen jungle]

I'm three stars as well after taking a break and honestly I was surprised that I pretty consistently only get matches against other three star teams.

[teal parcel]

The MMR is so fucked up, that it partially solves the issue with solo MMR boost.

[verbal marsh]

If anything I would love to go against 4 and 5 stars again rather than sit in mmr hell in 3 star with babies who have no idea what's going on and still do well because they spam chain fanning with bleed and then sit on my body with fusees for the next 10 minutes of the game while the bounty leaves without them

[verbal marsh]

That's what I'm saying

It's hardly a boost to begin with

[teal parcel]

If you die and enemy team has access to your body, you should stay dead

[verbal marsh]

because again, it is extremely difficult to give a solo any real advantage over just straight up two different players both trying to kill them

[verbal marsh]

Right so all duo players and now perma death then yeah?

Since if you die and the enemy team can cover your body you should stay dead

[teal parcel]

What solo Necro shouldn't be is that you press revive off CD 5 times until you get lucky shot and win

[verbal marsh]

Why aren't you trapping their body when you down them?

They have a solid two seconds before they can even move when the revive animation starts, how are you getting shot by them in that time?

[teal parcel]

I don't run traps, not should I bring them because of solo players

[verbal marsh]

And yet you think fusees are fine?

Lol

[teal parcel]

Yes, whatever, I still don't bring them

[verbal marsh]

So your build has a weakness that you refuse to cover and you think that should be other players problems? Got it

Fair enough

Then what about that time where they can’t shoot or move while they’re resing?

[teal parcel]

You think that your entire playstyle should be my problem

[verbal marsh]

How is it anything to do with my playstyle

It’s just user experience and how the concept of fun game design works

Lmao

[teal parcel]

There are situations when you can not cover the body

Mainly when another team comes

[verbal marsh]

So you get a down on them and their body is safe, like in teams when you down someone and they fall into cover and their teammate can res?

I guess that’s unfair now too right?

[teal parcel]

I can burn non solos just as fine

I don't see a problem

[verbal marsh]

People being a safe res is not an issue with solo it’s an issue you personally have with games that have a res system which is a pretty wide spectrum to decide that this game in particular’s solos has to suffer because of that

[verbal marsh]

Yeah and it’s just as much of an issue

At least then they can put their teammate out if they get into a good place to but insta burning is not a fun mechanic for anyone, regardless of if they’re solo or duo or trio

[teal parcel]

Not a fun mechanic is camping a body for 30 mins instead of 2

Burning just speeds up things

[verbal marsh]

Then bring traps if you don’t like it

Simple as

[teal parcel]

Will do when there is a trap that insta kills

How much DMG concertina does I forgot

[verbal marsh]

Ah I see so you want victories to be handed to you instead of you having to earn them, makes sense

Concertina initial explosion does 35 plus heavy bleed plus the concertina wire damage

[teal parcel]

I think a player should be downed 3 times

Ah

35

How that helps?

[verbal marsh]

It basically is an instakill too since they literally can’t even move or shoot back without dying

[teal parcel]

No its not

[verbal marsh]

It holds them in place, gives you a warning that they resd, pressures them so they can’t just “get lucky shot” when they res and turn things around…

[teal parcel]

They can't move during the res animation anyway, we've already discussed that, trap doesn't change anything

[verbal marsh]

If you can’t win a fight as two people against one person on low health that’s bleeding and stuck standing still and is actively calling out their position to you I don’t think it’s solos being op that’s the issue.

Yes because the trap holds them there until they clear the concertina

So it gives you an extra 5 or so seconds to get there and shoot them

Not to mention you can literally just have one person watch them while you go get fire

Which is your "instakill trap" you're asking for

I assume you run avto and crown and king pretty frequently btw

[rotund obsidian]

conc traps are definitely a really strong way to punish selfrez but man are they cringe

[teal parcel]

I don't think solos are op, I think 1. MMR boost is unfair
2. Solo gameplay is unfun for everyone else, I don't get any pleasure for 3v1ning a solo player and a solo player is the most unfun player in the game 95% of the time because of he is a solo
3. It fucks up the 3v3v3v3 setup of the game

[rotund obsidian]

but yeah if you have an issue with solos you've gotta just bite the bullet and have someone on your team run them. Or take conc bombs

[verbal marsh]

Kinda? But they’re great for just defending in general. What makes them cringe is when you combine them with poison traps cus that’s just a one shot like this guy is demanding because he can’t shoot a stationary target

That was a joke btw :>

[hot vigil]

Not sure why you pinging me about it, but if "fair" is hard thing to gauge.
Is it fair that lower ranked people have to fight higher rank bc higher rank solo? Is it fair that because of solo necro existence we have to wait 5 min to burn out every corpse?

[rotund obsidian]

yeah honestly i think the mmr thing should be removed, or at least tuned down to about the same adjustment as a duo.

[verbal marsh]

As I’ve already said five times now yeah mmr boost is unfun but it’s also kinda negligible and mmr in general needs addressing. Your second point is very flawed cus it’s just personal preference for you and it’s hardly shared by anyone else. I like facing solos when I’m team queuing and so do all of my friends and most content creators for the game. You say solo players are unfun but people rat regardless. I had a solo game an hour ago where I killed three duos by myself and the bounty team just ran off without fighting anyone. Had to catch and kill them at the extract.
Messing with the 3v3v3 setup of the game is kind of just a non statement, there’s no inherent issue with that outside of personal preference, in which case it’s just your opinion vs all other solo players opinions

[teal parcel]

If it was up to me I'd put solo players in a separate lobby with other solos where it would be very for them, oh its already exists

[verbal marsh]

Tagged you cus I was responding to what you said in the same discussion about solos being obtrusive when given the boosts they currently have

[verbal marsh]

And for the sixth time now, no, the mmr system is not good. I have addressed this.

[hot vigil]

Fair fair, just saying that solo play is obtrusive when the whole meta revolves around it

The CHANCE that they have trait

[verbal marsh]

And in response to burning people out, if you really can’t be bothered to wait 2 minutes to secure a down, bring traps. It’s really not that hard.

Like the game gives you the answer to the problem you have with this but you reject it for an easier, less skill, less interactive response because it means you don’t have the opportunity to be out skilled and lose when you deserve to

[verbal marsh]

If only I had addressed this earlier…..

[teal parcel]

Let's say there is a solo only bh, would you play it?

[verbal marsh]

It would be less interesting for me since it removes an aspect of the actual challenge of having every enemy outnumber you but yeah I would play it a lot. Especially when having to fight duos or trios gets overbearing, it would be much more chill at least

Quick reminder- challenge =/= enemies having an unfair advantage at all times

[rotund obsidian]

didnt they try solo only bh and it was such a campfest it never came back lol

[verbal marsh]

Sounds about right

Though the more low skill high reward weapons and traits they introduce the more common that gets

[teal parcel]

I bet nobody would actually play it, meanwhile my experience would be improved if there was no solos in my game

[verbal marsh]

Good for you, that would ruin a very large percentage of the playerbase’s experience though.

Also you just asked someone that regularly plays solo and I said I would play it a decent amount

[teal parcel]

Therefore I don't think you deserve any fairness, if you want to parasite on the trios you should be at a disadvantage

[verbal marsh]

So not sure why you asked if you were only going to go “well you are wrong and I will believe my own opinion instead”

[verbal marsh]

In what way are people parasiting off of trios?

Lol

[teal parcel]

I've explained it above

[verbal marsh]

I didn’t see anything relating to “parasiting off trios”

[rotund obsidian]

tbh i feel like trios for me is almost always 3v3v3v3, unless i go in as a duo or a solo. it kinda feels like the game already tries to put full teams against full teams and partials against other partial teams

[teal parcel]

You got your challenge, what do a trio get? At least revive 5 times so I get 5 kills

[rotund obsidian]

although sometimes its like 3v3v3v2 or something

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, pretty sure it does. Even in solo/duo queue it’s noticeable that you get more duos as a duo queue and more solos as a solo queue

[verbal marsh]

A trio gets an easy win that they didn’t earn at the moment

[rotund obsidian]

conc bomb + firebomb = pretty hard solo shutdown as long as you stay within range to hear them rez for about like. 30-40 seconds or so?

[verbal marsh]

If that’s what you want go play something else, hunt is meant to actually be skill based

[teal parcel]

"Winning" gets you what 1k hunt dollars

[verbal marsh]

Even then they would have, what, 75 health left? Tops?

[verbal marsh]

Makes you enjoy the game actually

I personally prize having fun over stat go up unga bunga

Especially when I didn’t earn those stats because the game handed it to me on a platter

[teal parcel]

You've wasted 20 mins of my time, what could've been a cool 3v3 fight turned into camp fest with a solo player

[rotund obsidian]

honestly it's more lethal than you think because solos dont expect to stand up inside flames, which burns hp ridiculously fast since you can't escape it quickly because of conc. If you don't survive and escape the conc bomb in one rez, you're basically out of the game

[verbal marsh]

Yeah and duos and trios do that constantly, that’s an issue with players not wanting to engage

I get between 5-7 kills most games when I actually get to play, often times I don’t go down at all. I always go for both bosses and take fights whenever the opportunity presents itself

[teal parcel]

Sure they do, but not nearly as much as solo players , which just have to do this to

[verbal marsh]

My aggression shouldn’t be rewarded with “oh this guy has an unfair advantage with no counterplay so I just lose the game now”

Probably because they currently can’t do anything without just being instakilled

[rotund obsidian]

only time i get solos who drag the game out really hard is snipers. but that's more of an issue with snipers, just rarer on teams unless a whole team is sniping.

[verbal marsh]

The more low skill high reward mechanics like instaburning from fusees that get introduced the more people are going to just sit idle

Because they won’t want to engage with people that only bring things to give them an unfair advantage and they’ll instead just sit at the side and wait til they have their own unfair advantage

[teal parcel]

Play with a team and a teammate can put a fire down for yoy

[verbal marsh]

You are actively encouraging the play styles you personally dislike by demanding that the game give you an easy option instead of you personally learning to be better at the game

You don’t want to make the skill investment to win a 2v1 fight against someone with no health. You don’t want to change your build to accommodate the areas you feel are lacking. You want the game to give you free wins and that’s that

[teal parcel]

Yeah, I'd like people to play the game its designed to be played, not the egoboosting parasite playstyle

[verbal marsh]

This isn’t an issue with solo being op. This is an issue with you having a personal issue with the game that you want to make other peoples’ problem instead of actually putting in the effort to fix yourself

Simple as

Lol

[rotund obsidian]

i guess we gotta remove trios then, since the game was designed around duos

[verbal marsh]

Which is exactly what you’re encouraging by wanting more fusees

Following your logic the Avto is good for the game and everyone should get a free Avto at the start of every game because it reduces the skill component to fighting other players and you don’t want to waste the time doing that

[teal parcel]

I'd like not to spend 2 minutes searching for a lantern, that's the problem fuses solve

[verbal marsh]

Here’s a trait idea for you: players further than 50m from you are permanently revealed to you in dark sight. It fixes a very niche issue that you personally have with the game- some solos hide and snipe- which means that it’s a good change right?

[teal parcel]

I don't even run them actually

[rotund obsidian]

A firebomb solved that problem too.

[verbal marsh]

I’m sure people won’t abuse it

So does traps

[teal parcel]

Traps do not

[verbal marsh]

So does, you know, HAVING TWO PLAYERS WHEN THEY ARE WHEN PERSON

💀

[teal parcel]

Seems like consumable slot is more valuable then a tool slot

Because I don't see any difference between a firebomb and a fuse

[rotund obsidian]

my only issue with fusees/flaregun now is that it's too low-investment per burn. It takes no time, thought, or gear investment, so there is absolutely nothing barring you from burning every single body instantly without exception. I DO like that it gives a good option to burn when necessary, but it's too good of an option if you don't even need to think about it.

[verbal marsh]

Like, I can see an argument for finding a way to force players to res if there’s no fire nearby. Giving every player an instant way to burn everyone they come across is not a solution to that

That’s just giving you a zero skill investment, zero preparation requirement, monkey brain activated trump card so that you can have an advantage over everyone else

[verbal marsh]

I hope this is sarcasm

[hot vigil]

Timer for solo res?

[rotund obsidian]

The time that solo should be strongest is when you don't know they're a solo yet. Figuring that out and burning them should basically be the end of the game for them imo, but now you skip the whole 'figuring that out' part and just burn everyone. It's boring counterplay to solos if you just burn everyone, and it makes teamplay even more annoying since being further apart from each other is punished harder.

[teal parcel]

I'd like to invest my skill in shooting people, not camping dead bodies.

[verbal marsh]

I wouldn’t be fully against it depending on how it’s implemented, but I think it should be something that players have to commit to

[verbal marsh]

Then bring traps or fire bomb or spend ten seconds to get a lamp while your buddy watches

Or just be better at the game so someone reviving isn’t an issue for you

[teal parcel]

Or bring fuses, what's the difference?

[hot vigil]

Just shape the meta around one play-style and one trait? Seems unhealthy

[verbal marsh]

Fuses are free and can be done instantly they aren’t a commitment and there’s no counterplay

[verbal marsh]

You mean like with levering and fanning and necro in teams?

You mean like with avtos and crown and kings and terminus levering?

[rotund obsidian]

"theres no counterplay" isnt really a valid criticism since you're already dead, if somebody decided to firebomb you there's really no counterplay either.

[verbal marsh]

You mean with putting bleed and fire and high velocity on every single gun?

[teal parcel]

What is a counterplay to firebomb? Firebomb is what 40g vs 5 for fuses? Are we arguing because of 35g?

[hot vigil]

Whataboutism nice :)
Well, those skills have issues too, but you don't shape whole loadouts around your opponent MIGHT have them.

[teal parcel]

Separate issue

[rotund obsidian]

unless you're talking about counterplay in the aspect of concealing the fact that you're a solo (engaging in bigger fights with multiple teams)

[verbal marsh]

If someone firebombs you at least you might be able to get up and move out of it. But even then, at least you’re only perma dying because someone made the commitment to not bring a load of other items that could kill you in a fight and instead brought something to make you stay down

The counterplay there is that they’re putting themselves at a lethality disadvantage to have a better chance at keeping you down

Not to mention it’s one use so they have to pick and choose who to use it on

It’s not free and actually requires some thought

[verbal marsh]

See above

[teal parcel]

What thought?

Its the consumable slot va tool slot, there is all the difference

[rotund obsidian]

"Was that person a solo? Is it worth spending x equipment based on how much i think they might be a solo?"

[verbal marsh]

You do. I bring bloodless and salveskin every match to deal with the amount of special ammo types now. I bring salveskin especially to help deal with instaburn epidemic. “I should have to change my build because my opponent MIGHT have necro”. Sure. But then I shouldn’t have to bring chokes in teams and salveskin in solo because my opponent MIGHT have fusees (it’s guaranteed)

[rotund obsidian]

Spending 1/3rd or 1/4th of a toolslot (that can be replenished) instead of a consumable slot basically cuts that out entirely, since you can just burn everyone.

[teal parcel]

Actually, instaburning everyone might not be a good tactic, because you'll might need their weapons later, so there is some thoughts to be had before throwing a fuse

[verbal marsh]

Plus you get fusees back and have multiple uses out of them

[verbal marsh]

That’s such a non argument that it’s hard to even think of a response to lmao

[hot vigil]

I am talking how require people to make loadouts of traps and what not FOR THE CHANCE there is a solo in your match.
For a single playstyle in specific moment.
Traits like bloodless and salveskin are more universal applicable, butcher and assassin for example.

AI in the wild

[teal parcel]

You've used so many non arguments I had to bring one on my own

[verbal marsh]

You mean like how traps are used to defend your compound while the bounty banishes and firebombs are used to force passive players to revive their teammate?

[teal parcel]

Like the one where buying a firebomb requires 200iq, and buying a fuse 20 iq

[verbal marsh]

Other people literally agreed with me on that

[hot vigil]

Sure, but if you tell me to bring traps for solos, I shouldn't use them to trap lairs?

[verbal marsh]

lol

[verbal marsh]

When did I say that?

[teal parcel]

A fuse brightens up the dim rooms

[verbal marsh]

I don’t really get the logic behind it either

[verbal marsh]

So return it to that functionality

Done

[hot vigil]

Well, you said I should bring traps to counter solos, then I said that is bad notion to balance solo necro.

[verbal marsh]

I don’t see how it is

[teal parcel]

Nope, why, now they have broader functionality, like traps or firebmb

[verbal marsh]

You then have to make the decision of, “do I use these traps to make a better defence and risk having a less safe time camping a solo later?”

[rotund obsidian]

i kinda agree, that's one reason i dont take conc traps personally. also they're cringe.

[hot vigil]

Because as a trio I already have melee, chokes and med-kit, so being required to bring traps to deal with solos is just so restrictive.

[verbal marsh]

It’s not a requirement. It’s only a requirement if you don’t want to get a lantern

Lol

[rotund obsidian]

I do wish the other traps were less mediocre in comparison but that'd make comboing them with conc too strong.

[slim pollen]

Bring a firebomb?

Find a lantern

[hot vigil]

I bring fuses

[verbal marsh]

That’s the issue

💀

My god

[hot vigil]

That I burn you?

lmao

[verbal marsh]

The issue is you get it for free

And can Insta burn everyone

There’s literally no reason not to just burn someone the second you get a down

[slim pollen]

I don't think the fusee and flaregun changes are bad, I like using them to force trios to stop hiding.

[hot vigil]

Well, the reason why people brings fuses and burns is because of solo necro 🤷‍♂️
Hunt didn't used to have that much burning, only after solo necro became meta.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, same. Like I said before, the fact that they can force inactive players to make a move is good

[teal parcel]

Fuses are not free they take a tool slot

[slim pollen]

Solos have always had to burn people to force teams to out of hiding even before solo necro.

[verbal marsh]

What isn’t good is that you get it for free, get several uses, restore them on loot and can do it instantly without a second thought

[rotund obsidian]

I'll also burn somebody if their partners are taking too long or playing too passively, but again i would've done that with a firebomb too. the difference is ALWAYS burning somebody when they go down without even thinking about where the partners are first.

[teal parcel]

Fuses can make vety inactive (dead) player or his teammates make a move

[rotund obsidian]

I hate to say it, but I'll just hit my mouse button to whip out my flaregun slot almost on instinct after I get a kill nowadays.

[verbal marsh]

I didn’t think the context was that subtle so I didn’t explain it again since I’ve already explained it repeatedly. By free I’m referring to how much commitment you have to make to it and how much of a negative there is to bringing it

[verbal marsh]

Same here

[hot vigil]

Well, teams also burned bodies to lure out other teams, but that was edge scenarios.
Instead of now where we throw burning instantly.
"You don't wanna fight, here, buddy is burning"

[verbal marsh]

Yeah and that’s a good thing, but giving everyone the ability to do that before that even becomes an issue is not

It’s not fun

People don’t wait to use their fusees until after their teammates run away and stop fighting

[rotund obsidian]

god i'd be so curious to see the stats of how many bodies went unburned vs burned out before and after the flare change, but i really doubt crytek keeps a stat like that

[verbal marsh]

They just dump them on people the second they get a down because there’s no reason not to

[slim pollen]

At least with flare and fusee burns you don't need a choke to stop a burn on it.

[teal parcel]

And I still don't see a problem, if you or your teammate can't stop a fire, you should stay dead without dragging the game, its already too slow often

[slim pollen]

Just run over, hit F, and run away

[hot vigil]

Well, reason why it is happening is because of solo necro to begin with, people was annoyed that IF they didn't have a firebomb, then they had to waste time looking at a body while a buddy tried to find a lantern.
Or sometimes you couldn't find that either and you'd just have to hope.

[verbal marsh]

So what we make solo unplayable? That’s your solution?

[teal parcel]

Skill issue

[hot vigil]

I mean plenty of people played solo before solo necro

So that is false statement

Even solos that want solo necro gone bc they hate it

[verbal marsh]

Some people don’t like spending thirty seconds looking for a lantern, so your solution is just make solo unfun and make everyone get insta burned when they go down

[hot vigil]

Your solution is to make it unfun for everyone else

[rotund obsidian]

to be quite honest, the effects on solo should be an afterthought. Instaburning is boring and brainless right now even in a game of all trios.

[slim pollen]

It's pretty easy to trick a solo into standing up to get shot again. A friend of mine and I prior to making burning easier would just have one of us stay by the body and have the other run off an make noise repeatedly until they stood up, we could also spend that time finding a lantern and come back to burn them if they hadn't gotten up.

[verbal marsh]

It was extremely reduced to the point where you would only seen one every ten games

[verbal marsh]

Yeah some Russian guy with 250 ping and an Avto and chain fanning is definitely a skill issue, I deserve to not be able to play the game because of that

[slim pollen]

I've never seen anyone who plays primarily solo say they want it gone tbh?

[hot vigil]

Sure, solo necor make solo more popular, almost like it became less skillful and easier

[verbal marsh]

Makes sense

[verbal marsh]

Almost like it became playable

Instead of entirely reliant on rng

Because necro gave solo some interactivity when facing teams

[hot vigil]

I have 🤷‍♂️
I know words against words, but I assume we speaking truthful here

[verbal marsh]

That just makes zero sense lol

[verbal marsh]

I haven’t

But I’ll take your word for it that some do

Cus people like this guy exist who wants wins to be handed to him on a plate

[hot vigil]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/18ht1sw/im_a_solo_player_and_i_hate_necro_heres_why/

[rotund obsidian]

I have heard people claim to be solo players and also claim that necro was bad for the game, but anyone could say that tbf

[verbal marsh]

Yeah

[hot vigil]

Shut up with that non-sense

[verbal marsh]

Doesn’t really mean anything

[slim pollen]

I think solo necro could use some kind of balancing around the specific situation where you've killed a solo and there's nobody else around. It can get boring both as a solo and as teams waiting 2+ minutes for them to burn. It'd be nice if there was a balanced way to skip the waiting.

[verbal marsh]

I mean it’s literally not nonsense. What you’re asking for is a zero commitment way to shut down something you could counteract with an ounce of skill

[teal parcel]

Solo is not unplayable rn, so its skill issue, most Russians have sub 100 ping and a better internet connection than Europeans, also, separate issues again

[hot vigil]

No, I just don't want to have to waste time burning solos.
Literally at the point a solo goes down the game is over.
You can not say it is skillful play to wait for solo to burn out.

[verbal marsh]

It’s not a separate issue at all. I don’t think you read what I said. You said skill issue, dying in this game is only a skill issue half the time and you’re asking for it to be even less skill based

[teal parcel]

Yes, I've committed by killing the guy already

[verbal marsh]

That’s not even what I’m talking about 💀

Bruh

[hot vigil]

But honestly my biggest fix to solo is lock them out of trios and then take a look how you can balance solos vs duos as there is less disparity of balance.

[verbal marsh]

I get that. Making everyone instaburn everything because of your personal issue with it is still not the solution.

[rotund obsidian]

at the point a solo goes down and the people left realize they're a solo the game is over

[hot vigil]

what personal issue?

[slim pollen]

That just sounds like a 'make it duo's problem instead' solution.

[verbal marsh]

Your personal issue of not wanting to spend two seconds to get a lantern or bring a trap or a concertina bomb or a fire bomb or just putting down the solo again when they res

[hot vigil]

Just saying it is would be easier to balance, because it only take one opening shot to make it a 1v1.

[hot vigil]

It is not skillful play, I wanna do skillful play in Hunt.

It is doing your taxes

[slim pollen]

Solo isn't unbalanced mid-fight though. It's only an issue after a fight's over.

[verbal marsh]

That’s a massive joke when what you’re asking for is the ability to prevent your enemies from playing the game

[slim pollen]

And the only issue is the waiting.

[verbal marsh]

If anything it’s in the favour of the duos which is why these changes even came about to begin with

[verbal marsh]

Not even sure what this is supposed to mean

[hot vigil]

Where is my free reivive then? Doesn't that hampers me to play the game then?

[hot vigil]

It is important to do, but unfun and tedious

[verbal marsh]

Are you referring to having to use your brain to do well as doing your taxes?

[verbal marsh]

You mean like necro in teams?

The exact same trait?

[slim pollen]

Not counting relentless and event perks, teams get between 10-15 max revives and a solo gets five. Nobody gets free revives.

[verbal marsh]

I have literally no idea how that’s even relevant though. Not once did anyone say solo necro was free and I’m not even sure what “doesn’t that hampers me to play the game” is meant to mean

Literally

Lol

[slim pollen]

Actually teams get more because of redskull revives. Technically solos have infinitely less.

[hot vigil]

Well, should solos just be able to get up after losing a fight, always?
Because the way I want solo necro to work, is to ensure that solo can get up after trade vs. the last guy on team.
That is fine imo.
But having to be an active factor when a team is on a solo's body should be out of the question.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah plus teams can put out fires which removes the burn mechanic entirely

[verbal marsh]

So let’s make sure that duo players can’t play once they’ve been downed once then

[hot vigil]

I mean if you kill both of them they cant

[slim pollen]

They shouldn't, which is what I've been saying in reference to the after fight waiting of a burn. But nothing about that means necro needs to be otherwise nerfed.