feedback-discussion

[valid linden]

You have a vac ban ? WOW... So far I haven't met anyone with it (10 y.o. i mean)

[subtle lichen]

Same, I've never met someone with one either. What was it for out of interest?

[valid linden]

Uh... Many i guess ? Refunding isn't that difficult to do

btw that looks like a really thought out option

[turbid hound]

account got stolen, played with cheats for a couple of days, and i got it back with ban

[valid linden]

Oh, you told us that but... how did it get stolen ?

[turbid hound]

while refunding is not difficult to do, i as a human being, quite lazy, so if devs do not want my money, then i won't give them i guess

[radiant river]

Cheaters can just as easily get non vac banned accounts if they had to

[turbid hound]

i was a 14 y.o. boy, not the brightest in terms of cybersecurity

[radiant river]

Just because they don't rn doesn't mean banning those would fix it

[turbid hound]

prematurely banning players with active vac-ban mostly gonna hurt the wrong people

[valid linden]

Okay... Understood... How about creating a lobby only for cheaters ?

or a server

[turbid hound]

nevermind

[turbid hound]

dividing playerbase is not a good move also

[valid linden]

So... There is no good move against cheaters ?

[turbid hound]

yes

[valid linden]

So why complain about them

[turbid hound]

only good detection can battle cheaters

i don't

and people like to whine

myself included

[valid linden]

Okay, logical

Oh, i know

A fool-proof solution

We should make an operative system that only runs hunt

You can't run third-party applications, so you can't cheat

[turbid hound]

i see where this is going

[valid linden]

Yep...

[radiant river]

For cheaters that doesn't matter they'd be banned otherwise

[turbid hound]

for the game itself matters

as i said, not all of the players that have vac-ban is actually cheating in hunt

separating exclude them from overall matchmaking, meaning there will be less players to play with

plus those separated will be facing half-empty game, and be not happy about it

not really good for game's reputation

plus as was stated, real cheaters just gonna get themselves new accounts, and dodge the punishment, while guilty of nothing players gonna suffer

[valid linden]

Okay... What about hardware anti-cheat ? Not some fancy software but a hardware

[turbid hound]

what? you want that every player will have to buy/get a physical token?

not gonna happen

and kinda silly

but could work(in theory)

[valid linden]

Either that or invade player privacy with a check of software that they're running

[turbid hound]

i see where this is going

i'm out

[queen bloom]

for crytek tickets

[subtle lichen]

The vast majority of modern anti-cheats actually already do that. Including EAC I believe.

If it was a case of players running huntstats, then there's every possibility it was identified by EAC and wrongly flagged as some cheat software.

[valid linden]

I meant the reverse use : It should only allow certified applications

[radiant river]

Sounds quite annoying

[valid linden]

Well... It would work better than reverse engieneer the cheating software to get a ban

[subtle lichen]

I would not be happy with that tbh. There's millions of apps, processes etc that could potentially be running. And you're saying that each one would need to be vetted and approved by... who exactly?

[valid linden]

The copyrighters

[subtle lichen]

Yeah, no. No way that would be a workable system.

I think you dramatically underestimate the sheer volume of work that would entail.

Or even worse, how many companies would not be bothered to actually do that.

And I imagine that sort of information on what is running and such is fairly easy to spoof.

[valid linden]

Ehm... I can code so i get how apps are made (cheats included)

[subtle lichen]

I don't code, but I know a lot about bureaucracy and paperwork. There's no chance that a company completely unrelated to gaming would bother to engage with a system that requires their software be approved by someone to allow it to be whitelisted for anti-cheat.

[valid linden]

OperaGX creators would

Microsoft would (they actually are familiar with games)

Valve would

Discord would

I believe most of them would

[subtle lichen]

That's naive I'm afraid.

[valid linden]

I know, I just want to believe

[subtle lichen]

What do those companies get out of engaging with such an anti-competitive system?#

[valid linden]

Free advertisement for their products

[subtle lichen]

"Exposure"?

[valid linden]

Maybe

[crystal plume]

@oak iron They have not done that for a few events now

There was a bonus charm for 15k event points

[oak iron]

Thank you for the clarification.

[native shard]

survey sucks
main issues with the event:

• night visibility is horrible, esp. headsman/cain/T3s
• cyclone shares the vetterli's misaligned irons
• CHEATERS. I play a lot of shooters and the amount of sketchy moments skyrocketed during the event, especially in 5-6*. If you think I'm crazy, even Huuge (streamer) went on a spectate/ban spree by sending the blatant ones to Crytek
• Netcode favours high ping. Still has been an issue for five years, still no fix in sight

[tiny pivot]

i almost feel like this game needs a slight, very slight vignette on players, it almost feels impossible to see players through layers of fog and windows, and i say this as a player who enjoys night

its very hard to see people hiding peeking windows on buildings unless youre basically staring at them using a sniper scope, and even then id say its still hard

just use spyglass lul

[unborn dagger]

Uh yeah fog will do that

[humble quest]

@oak iron unless you have a screenshot where it says you were suppose to get hunt dollars I think you were just gravely mistaken

[subtle lichen]

I've been shot countless times by people I had no idea were there even when I was looking straight at them.

[vale field]

I really enjoy playing hunt with a lot of friends and we all agree that it's not good that the weather conditions are all listed together, it was definitely better when it was still somewhat divided and it was a lot more fun.
I and probably many other hunt players would be happy if the weather conditions were better again.

[radiant river]

would be nice

people would probably freak out because its "unrealistic" or whatever but it could definitely be done to look good

kinda like counter strike

[teal parcel]

Removing few problematic skins and certain weather conditions will solve most visibility issues and I say this as someone with fucked up eyesight.

[vocal ember]

why so flicking?

[subtle lichen]

I don't think removing skins people paid for is a good business move. But they could for sure work on making some of them a little more obvious.

[tiny pivot]

Fog will do that, yes, but like

I don't think it would be bad for both sides, as in, every hunter, to get a slight vignette to make them easier to see overall

Maybe that's subjective, that's why I'm not putting it in the actual idea/feedback channel, but I think it would help visibility without making the game too easy if they just make it -very- slight

Also I am very curious on the numbers of wildcard contract. Because if they were good they really should keep them separate and always available

[unborn dagger]

It was probably because of my mmr but I was having difficulties finding matches on both wildcard and regular

[valid linden]

btw they also fit in lore as to why we never seen them before ! They were killed in mass quantities in 1900s

What'cha think about makeshift armor and pneumatic weapons ?

[tiny pivot]

i don't think armor really has a place, because it would fundamentally change balance a lot, it would be a big addition. pneumatic weapons maybe, it seems like they're trying more odd-ball and interesting weapons
mostly because the avtomat is Literally not real, and we're getting more things like the Ironside and Cyclone that might exist irl but are weird, hard to use, but interesting conversion kits for weapons

[valid linden]

Well armor would fit in hunt world since hunters are aware that other hunters want the bounty i doubt that they wouldn't use armor to protect themselfs

[subtle lichen]

Purely from a balance perspective, it'd be a nightmare to get right.

[valid linden]

Good choice of words here @subtle lichen , If you put Javelin here ppl could have #game-ideas message misinterpreted 🙂

[valid linden]

Guess so... but so are the weapons of Hunt... like avtomat

[somber hound]

Not spear, atlatl

We has some hunters that would fit great with those

[subtle lichen]

I had to look that up, I thought you'd fat fingered the keyboard for a sec.

[somber hound]

nope, that's a thing

[unborn dagger]

Thats why people want the Avto removed because it has no place. Armor doesnt either for Hunt, it would make compact worse than it already is and make the gameplay more casual.

[queen jungle]

@south crow The ping limit was introduced because players with very high ping (250+) caused technical issues during matches that affected everybody.

30ms is extremely low, I know people living in Germany with a ping higher than 30 (and the servers are located in Germany). From Moscow the ping to EU servers in Germany is about 50, which is perfectly fine in every way for a shooter.

[south crow]

Why then even make a EU and RUSSIA server if that does not matter?

[queen jungle]

The devs stated in the past that server locations are decided on based on player population so we can assume Central and Eastern Europe have enough players to warrant two server locations

[valid linden]

Well... I'd disagree since Hunt should hit like the souls series but with guns and nothing hits harder than players with advantage

• Hunt is casual in a way

[tiny pivot]

intentionally leaning into the casual and "players with advantage" is a bad idea for any kind of pvp game. it never feels good to die to something you were statistically worse off to fight against. while i understand some of your ideas, this is one i disagree with. the souls games are mostly single player focused anyway, with MP being full of cheeses. i would know, because i beat every souls game

[unborn dagger]

Just because its casual in a way doesnt mean it should be more of it. People like Hunt because its hardcore, adding armor takes that away and makes people more careless because they know theyll be able to tank a shot.

[valid linden]

I actually meant that hunt in it's current state is casual when it really shouldn't

[valid linden]

I get why it sounds like a poor choice of words but to me every seemingly unfair (when in reality it's just difficult for yourself) fight is a challenge that you must overcome not by using your weapons but by using your skills and utilizing correct tactics. I get why ppl want avto, armor and other stuff out of the game but at the same time i see an opportunity for re-play ability, more unforgiving gameplay and difficult situations... Firearms are well implemented in this game it's just Hunt gives you lots of ammo and the difficulty comes from aiming and you don't feel like you accomplished much. I swear the only sweaty moments happened when I was melee-ing an armed hunter or when i was melee-d by an unarmed hunter.

[late quartz]

I don't even think this is a matter of casual vs non casual, as much as the eternal "arcade shooter vs cowboy simulator" debate

This idea leans more towards the Tarkov/ARMA direction of "if it's plausible in-universe it should be in the game"

[valid linden]

Hunt is both now... cowboy arcade

[late quartz]

The same reason people ask for a million random fucking guns that they think are cool just because they're period accurate

Hunt, at its core, has really good gunplay. It's truly what makes the game stand out, especially early on when it was competing during the battle royale industry bubble

Fucking with it "because irl people would wear armor" makes very little sense

I agree that hunt isn't a "serious competitive game", there are tons of anti-skill or random mechanics baked into the game which is fine, but it walks a fine line there and "it's already casual" isn't a good reason to infinitely dip deeper into that direction

Consistency and readability in things like shots to kill are a vital part of what makes the game feel rewarding, and I'd argue "realistic" mechanics like the outrageously complex damage model for dropoff, penetration, and ammo types are actually kind of bad for the game and it would be better with a simpler more intuitively readable system.

Armor moves us in the opposite direction.

[valid linden]

Fair... It's just Hunt didn't really changed much in terms of gameplay or graphics at least in my eyes

[late quartz]

In what sense?

[valid linden]

Guns to add will run out soon (unless you want to add actual flintlocks), there are only 3 maps, gunplay has a good core but everyone gets so used to it that you don't even need a tactic, you do this automatically, the most unique kind of firearm is hated by players... Nothing puts pressure on you, nothing is out of the ordinary... It feels repetitive to me

The only way to evolute the gameplay is to add some new mechanics that change the balance drastically

[late quartz]

Some of the best most long-lasting games in the industry are that way because they adhere to their core vision rather than trying to become something new. Games like CS are still roughly the same core experience as they have been forever.

Hunt fills a niche that no other game really fills right now. People who click with hunt have nowhere else to go to get this experience.

Personally I don't think the game is rote, I think there's a lot of variance within matches because the core loop of the game naturally creates a lot of variation, but it keeps that variation feeling largely fair rather than being too random or unpredictable to be rewarding

[subtle lichen]

Seriously, I tried CS2 and it plays pretty much identically to every previous version of CS for the most part. The guns feel the same, the movement is the same, and tbh that's exactly why people love it.

So having familiarity with the core mechanics is not a bad thing at all. Allowing people to get familiar with the core gunplay mechanics, movement, etc is fine.

[late quartz]

Not to say Hunt should never change or evolve, but it doesn't need to shake things up for the sake of it.

I totally agree that there are myriad changes that hunt could make to improve its core experience, I think the balance between aggressive and passive play is a major issue, I think metagame systems like prestige and unlocks need to be changed to give extrinsically motivated players more incentive to grind, I think events should refine and focus more on the pact system to create interesting novel gameplay elements

[subtle lichen]

I think they should be more careful with event pacts in future. Infernal was so strong and messed with so many established mechanics that it felt almost mandatory to take it.

[late quartz]

I think they should be more adventurous tbh

[subtle lichen]

Put new stuff in sure, but nullifying bleeds and fire effectively killed one major aspect of tactics.

[late quartz]

BIg risks means they learn a lot about what works and what doesn't, and allows them to hone in on good ideas later on. We've seen them make pact traits permanent, and hopefully we continue to see it with things like the death pact traits we got this time

[subtle lichen]

I have to admit, I played a few games as Death towards the end and Witness should absolutely be made permanent. Really cool trait without being super OP.

[radiant river]

thats basically what the event perks do

which is probably exactly why people like them so much

they dont need to add something that undermines the whole way the game plays (which armor would) for it to change balance

[stark fulcrum]

The ability to negate all effects through traits and a shot was a bit much. Idk how that got passed through to live. Like I get not being able to be set on fire being infernal pact, but negating bleed as well was over the top.

But I do like the fact they mix it up each event.

They just need to test combos before release 😆

Otherwise its 1 pact that outshines the others by far

@green moat try learning to play solo. Its daunting at first but after a bit you make amazing money from games. I usually comes out if I get bounty or bounties with around 1500-2500 depending on other factors. Solo is the way to make money tbh and it isn't hard bc you're fighting lower skill players usually.

[tiny pivot]

#feedback message
five star... playing against... five star... six star... four star... so people right next to their rank... hmm...

[worn jackal]

well I feel like nothing changed. I play in 5 stars, lose 4 matches in a row (negative kd for sure) and in next match play against 6 stars

[frigid folio]

@south crow 30ms is crazy low....... with 30ms ping limit 90% of Australia won't be able to play on OCE servers? But also I don't see a problem with Europeans (Russia/Ukraine) playing on the European servers?

[tawny meadow]

@radiant river your suggestion have been removed since it was deemed low effort: no description, no nothing.

[radiant river]

...

[tiny pivot]

for those who i complained to, i now understand the nitro being strong

i still think it's a bit clunky to use, and basically impossible to use at any sort of range with any sort of consistency

but quickscoping it is dumb

and should be nerfed

LOL

[manic mango]

whats quickscoping

[tiny pivot]

found one at like level 10 on a new prestige and said fuck it i'll use it... came out using every single bullet on a kill lets just say

hip firing and quickly scoping in before you shoot

[novel pecan]

@south crow
#game-ideas message
Its not the ukrainains that are the problem, its the eastern russians, and chinese players who are using vpn to spoof their ping, That is the problem.
EU

[signal mural]

@vernal haven The Headsman was a Halloween Event skin - he's not "Pay-to-Win" which you imply in your critique. But honestly there are so many dark camo or foliage colored Legendary Hunters that I get sick of people torpedo'n specific skins. The Gator-skinned Legendary is pretty much the same exact skin but with a bit of detailed texturing & dark greens instead of grey-blacks. If they change Headsman they need to change the Gator too... and a slew of others IMO. Slippery slope.

[teal parcel]

Yes they should change those skins too. It is not a slope it is a ladder to better gaming experience

[tight timber]

I got a lot of disconnection issues since the end of the event... Like I'm playing as usual and then, from nowhere the game close. Do you guys have this kind of issue as well ?

[late quartz]

Slippery slope implies the end result is something undesirable lol

Also... it's pretty standard to use the term "pay to win" to just imply that something grants an unearned advantage. Whether or not it is semantically accurate seems a little irrelevant, let alone the fact that they never said "pay to win" in the first place?

[unborn dagger]

I cant really say I care about skins camouflaging with the environment because I havent noticed it affecting my games during night time, fog, or rain. Only skin I have an issue with is Cain because his skulls block a majority of his head from behind.

[signal mural]

Yeah, I don't know. I think removing camouflaged skins, or rather giving every one a tell, is catering to the run-n'-gunners a bit. Sure the game has gained a lot of popularity and "bush-wookies" & campers can be frustrating but IMO - Hunt's a sandbox "extraction" shooter - not a competitive Leaderboard eSports cash-cow; balancing every gun & skin isn't really the sense in it. There are other priorities in my book.

[late quartz]

This sort of change would be something the art team would deal with. I think it's hard to say that there are priorities that take precedent over gameplay improvements in that regard

Aside from y'know, new map I guess

[subtle lichen]

Headsman is kinda busted mainly because he seems to blend in so well in a lot of places. The other skins you mentioned blend in well in places, but nowhere to the extent that Headsman does.

[unborn dagger]

I dunno, I still feel like characters like felis give the same camo even with the white paint on her and just her being white.

[subtle lichen]

I mean, Felis at least has that white mask. It's something to show her up a bit.

[unborn dagger]

True

[subtle lichen]

Headsman is just a nondescript lump of grey

[signal mural]

Headsman sticks out in grass & against building exteriors; Maive & (old) Cain had better cameo in those areas.

[valid linden]

@subtle lichen #game-ideas message looks similar to #suggestions-overview message

[subtle lichen]

I gotta be honest, I had no idea that channel existed. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll delete muh suggestion in that case.

[valid linden]

don't worry m8, w8 till moderator notifies

btw these ideas are approved, devs just don't know how to implement them properly

[late quartz]

The two big elements that make headsman fairly unique are that his silhouette is broken up and he has a very homogenous color palette. There are certainly a few other skins like this... but not that many

[signal mural]

I feel like they will just slap a white painted Hunt cross or skull on his head or tatter his sleeves to expose skin...

I'd rather have the holes in the forest flooring fixed near Chapel of the Black Madonna or the bits of asset tearing foliage, basement lighting issues fixed, better 1st person hand models on some Legendary skins, Boss skin varients, more weapon inspections, and higher resolution assets for the engine update.

[unborn dagger]

Honestly if it were up to me I would just make him slightly lighter and have give him blood around his character. I just find it meh that hes called the executioner and doesn't have any blood on him.

[late quartz]

I think the silhouette is a larger overall issue than just the color

[subtle lichen]

He's wearing what amounts to a ghillie suit. Which is what snipers wear so they can't be seen.

[stable stone]

one day we will all stop talking about this huntsman individual, i bet he sad getting shid talked like when he only do it for his own survival

😔

[subtle lichen]

#game-ideas message I would love to have experienced night time before they changed it. I heard that flares and the torch and shit used to be actually more useful?

[wanton imp]

never played the classic night time but the current night is not really that dark

[valid linden]

In game universe hunters would consider this hostile work environment 🙂

[wanton imp]

a moonless night where its hard af to see without flares or any light emitting item would gives some merit to starshell/flares/electric lamps/lanterns.

[valid linden]

Generators would be useful !

[wanton imp]

also that i guess

of course it would be a silencer users dream

[valid linden]

Not really... You have to aim for the soft spots only to make a real impact

[wanton imp]

in a map where its so dark you would probably never find the guy with a silenced until its too late.

silenced guns don't have muzzle flare either or muzzle gas or whatever its called

[valid linden]

You're referring to muzzleflash my friend + You'd need some sort of indicator for players...

[wanton imp]

the only indicator you would have is the sound which is hard to hear (some silencers are really quiet that being the bornheim silenced)

[valid linden]

I mean it's dark for everyone, I'd just run into the wheat-field and crouch

I think melee would become meta

not silenced guns

[wanton imp]

true

still you would see more people using silenced guns on that weather condition

[valid linden]

Maybe... but i guess i'd still run with romero hatchet with dragon breath ammo 🙂

[wanton imp]

Hm fire ammo would be a double edged swords in moonless nights because burning peeps are easier to see. but that tracer will your location too.

[novel pecan]

@wanton imp
#game-ideas message
as a melee main i think this is an amazing option, since there are no counters to melee players

[valid linden]

well, there are some options

Like HiveJar

Or mixed guns like romero hatchet

[novel pecan]

antidote and baseball bat 1 hits the hive bees

[valid linden]

True

[novel pecan]

Plus regen shot

and stamina shot

[normal oasis]

same problem as poison ammo. no use if he has stamina shot which many ppl that use melee use.

[valid linden]

Hunter Junkie build

[valid linden]

Bleeding ammo would be nice too

Less room for an error

[normal oasis]

you mean anit bleeding shot?

[valid linden]

Hunt has this one ?

30 hours of gameplay hit me hardd

[normal oasis]

no.. but what you mean with bleeding ammo would be nice? because there is bleeding ammo currently

[valid linden]

I meant utilization of bleeding ammunition against foes in Hunt while in the night-time

[valid linden]

I know but i wouldn't be a walking lantern

btw, what'cha think about alternative dark sight ?

Nice idea @wanton imp #game-ideas message

But it'll somewhat nerf fire damage

[wanton imp]

not really incendiary ammo is pretty balanced as is

that and it wouldn't give immunity to it

it would be like salveskin (where you don't get set on fire in the effective range of incendiary)

[valid linden]

I know, it's just not all of us use incendiary ammunition so taking a lantern or shooting a lit lantern would do little damage in this case

[wanton imp]

its not often you can do that

even less so if you consider that there aren't alot of lanterns near water.

[valid linden]

Well yes but most of the time you spend in water

[wanton imp]

staying in water is a disadvantage in most cases

[subtle lichen]

Even when I can't see any, I'm super paranoid about danger noodles.

[dusky tapir]

@tiny pivot gotta say your idea ain't that bad, some combinations are too niche for their own good ( frag arrows / explosive bolts for ex )

[tiny pivot]

tbh my main problem is the outliers, eg. special/bow ammo types, and things like shredder, it makes no sense on why they arent combined when shredder is basically just dumdum ammo except it pierces

and also bow ammo types being separate sucks for everyone, i will say a vast majority of players are probably not using any kind of bow so running into an ammo swap box, which are already uncommon, and seeing it is just a bow ammo type, really stings and making it share with something bullet-wise would make them consider it more

[worn jackal]

@leaden zephyr just right now in EU

[leaden zephyr]

not fun realy

[queen jungle]

Yep, game is becoming unenjoyable. We tried to dodge the Chinese by playing on NAW only to get ragehacked there by some chinese hackers on fresh steam accounts.

People have been asking for a China region lock for a long time already but Crytek doesnt seem to care

[little jackal]

I started noticing those unreadable names more often as well, but can't say it affects matches as much as yall want it to

maybe high mmr is different, but 3 to 5 is whatever

[radiant river]

I'm sure all those 3 stars are cheating real hard

[trail carbon]

@valid linden Interesting idea about making hunters drop their weapons. The main problem o have with it is that hunt has a history of weapons disappearing when dropped on the ground, so I'd say I don't want this added for that reason. It kinda sucks, but it is what it is.

[queen jungle]

Maybe because cheaters dont get killed as much but kill a lot due to their cheats? Duh

So ofc cheaters are not sitting on 3 or 4 stars

[tiny pivot]

i would rather hunt add literally any other method of retrieving weapons off alive/dead hunters than shooting it away.

on that note, still think there's no good reason that you can't un-akimbo or akimbo-ify weapons mid round

specifically OFF of a dead body's weapons

#feedback message
tbh don't blame you, it's very strong, i would not want it to be gutted but any kind of nerf, yeah i can see

the solo sweat loadout of centennial dumdum with a fmj pistol secondary is just really strong

[little jackal]

you literally replied to the pic with only 3-4 star players

make up your mind then

[queen jungle]

If you could read you would see that I have not accused any of these 3-4 star players of cheating. I have written that we tried to dodge the Chinese players by playing on NAW and we ran into Chinese ragehackers there.

[little jackal]

you were the only one mentioning cheating in the first place. Is it box names that you are scared of then?

[subtle lichen]

I'm not saying that cheating isn't a problem, but I have so far not seen one in any games. I've seen some people who were suspiciously good, sure. But nobody flat shooting from 200m away through walls or anything. But then again, 3 star scrub.

[crystal plume]

Haven't seen any in ages in 5-6 star either

[subtle lichen]

Which region? I play on EU.

[crystal plume]

EU

I've gotten enough cheat accusations against me as well as seen accusations against other legit players enough times to take the claims regarding cheating being a "problem" with at least few grains of salt tbh

Cheaters do exist, but I feel like the amount of them that people are actually facing on average is very exeggerated by people fueled by confirmation bias etc.

#hunt-general message

[unborn gyro]

If events were shorter I'd agree. The game can't be broken for entire calendar quarters at a time.

Infernal pact = busted and needs to be toned down

or other pacts buffed? Something .. lotta gimmick creep in this game lately

lot of flashing lights and fancy things when the game used to be just about murder hoboing

[silent topaz]

Changes in matchamking? Yeah yeah, whatever.... Why u just cant take into account playtime and KDA!????? Or at least make fkn MMR stars to work! Two teams full of 5stars guys vs our 3.5. This men have 7.5k play time VS mine teammates with 1.5 This can't be fair in any situation. Your matchmaking sucks!

and by the way, my guys are random so we dont have any "old friends" modificator

[worn jackal]

I mean, mmr base on playtime and KDA would be the worst idea, but that's true situations like this shouldnt happen

[valid linden]

Is it a thing ? Never noticed it

[unborn gyro]

did I miss a patch notes or memo? There were recent matchmaker changes? I see nothing in announcements.

[valid linden]

@trail carbon what'cha think about this idea #game-ideas message ?

[flat sandal]

I saw it in the patch notes on steam, it's just some minor tweaks. would be nice to know what they did exactly or perhaps it's just a placebo^^

not even sure what can be done other then waiting longer

@silent topazwhat's playtime gonna do?

don't know if matchmaking is purely based on the rank but if it's not all 5star players could be one bad match away from being 4star while all 4star one good match from 5star

"Your continued feedback on this topic is invaluable" lol

[humble quest]

MMR works with numbers, the ranks we see are just a bracket. There's several hundred MMR between the top and bottom of a given bracket, so yes a given hunter could be at the bottom or top of their bracket.

Match making generally is averaging a teams MMR and putting you into tighter brackets than our normal rank shows (thus match making MMR can be 3.5) and then matches you with people within a range of around that

[flat sandal]

ty. never can remember the details cause there is so much misinformation floating around

[humble quest]

Most of these changes seem to be based around changing a) how much you gain/lose when killing a player b) how wide those brackets are themselves c) changing how big the range is for the matchmaking MMR or d) modifiers for being solo/duo/random queuing into other matchmaking types

[flat sandal]

yeah they said matchmaking though, not sure if that means how much you loose or gain but maybe

they should probably stop representing MMR in stars

figuring out by how much to adjust MMR for randoms and stuff should be possible to do quite accurately but perhaps they should just put randoms together if possible cause any adjustment is best avoided I think

[humble quest]

Imo MMR and kda both need to not be displayed, at very least not in such obvious ways. Both foster crappy gameplay habits to make funny number go up

[flat sandal]

yup, I literelly hate seeing KDAs

somehow it must be good for business though^^

[humble quest]

Even with matchmaking MMR adjustments, I don't think anything significant changes until they fix how volatile MMR itself is. Being able to swing multiple stars in a couple hours of play shouldn't be a thing unless you're going full Terminator in every match you play

[flat sandal]

yeah it's weird, must be hard

you would think just toning the change per death and kill down significantly would fix it but why then is it not done?

[humble quest]

Unknown

Obviously they have data and are making their choices. Seems weird from the outside though

[flat sandal]

just do it for a month and see what happens

who knows, maybe it's exactly what they did? someone care to die a lot real quick?^^

[novel pecan]

Combine kda with stars for good matchmaking

Iknow i will get shot for this opinion

[flat sandal]

yup^^

[novel pecan]

But puttin an 4kda against a 0.95 kda is just not right..

[flat sandal]

from what I have subjectively observed KDA refelcts skill better actually

[normal oasis]

mmr is kinda kda from recent games

[flat sandal]

and ppl do want it to be high so wouldnt mess with it

[humble quest]

This kind of kda against a .95 is typically going to be a person deranking. Not the intended behavior of mmr

[novel pecan]

A 3 star that just got the game should not have to fight a 4kda bush wookie who downgraded by necromancing himself

I am the person of 0.95 kd

Steady 4 star

Only baseball bat

[flat sandal]

noone should have to do that^^

[humble quest]

It's a symptom of the volatility of MMR, not an issue with MMR based on kills/deaths in general

[flat sandal]

KDA is effected by playing primarily solo or in teams though

[humble quest]

Well both volatility and ability to manipulate MMR with soul survivor without effecting KD in bounty

[flat sandal]

I wanna see a little graph with MMR history instead of stars to identify pesky derankers 😄

[trail carbon]

I think it's neat

[subtle lichen]

MMR being impacted by KDA would be interesting. I'd go up against fellow 0.62 scrubs.

[waxen solar]

@cunning stone Just wanted to say Thank to devs - that they fixed linux EAC dissconnect-bug. Say thank to them from linux community.

[thorny spindle]

@hybrid forum you’re not supposed to look at the RPM stat to determine purely how fast a gun shoots, look at the cycle speed stat for that

[late quartz]

I mean I have no issue with mid-event balance tweaks, and sure if events are gonna be major gameplay adjustments I don't think it would be unreasonable to have "mid season patches" so to speak to address major potential problems if they exist.

imo tho, obviously infernal was too strong... but it didn't really negatively affect my enjoyment of the game? I don't really feel like it contributed to some feeling of hopelessness or unpredictability that made the game less fun to play, more frustrating etc.
Certainly, there are readability issues with things like immunity to fire and bleed... but frankly these issues have always existed in the form of poison shots. Poison shots should not be in the game at all for the same reasons why blazeborn was a funky trait. My ultimate takeaway was the same one I've always had for poison; you can never really rely on status effects in PvP because you'll never know if somebody was affected or not.

This is an issue in general with Hunt, there's tons of hyperrelevant information regarding PvP interactions that aren't telegraphed in any way shape or form, which means many elements of the game are inherently unreliable.
Is it good that infernal made that dynamic apply to bleed and fire? No obviously not. Did it throw the game into a state where it was no longer enjoyable to play for me? Nah.

Obviously this is subjective, and some people are going to be bothered by something while others aren't, but personally I feel that as long as pact traits are used as a way to experiment and iterate quickly on new traits that are added as permanent additions, any temporary period of imbalance is probably fine.

I don't think in 6 months people are gonna be losing hair over blazeborn in the same way I still lose hair over As the Crow Flies LOL

[radiant river]

Infernal wasn't game breaking strong it was just meta strong

If anything it made my experience better because bleed or fire ammo being strong is annoying

Would be nice if stuff was more readable but that's an issue with all pacts not just one

[subtle lichen]

I actually disagree here. I think this game should have things that it doesn't bellow at you from the rooftops. Uncertainty around things means you often need to hedge your bets to secure the kill or whatever.

[next yarrow]

Rampage was stronger than balzeborne imo, but it was better game design

[subtle lichen]

Bit like the guy you just killed. Does he have a mate hiding in the bushes? Better trap him just in case. As opposed to the game calling out that someone is alone and has Necro.

[next yarrow]

Also, I would say some uncertainty is fine, but the all or nothing nature is the issue

Like regen shot doesn't need to announce itself necessarily, because my guns still work

But antidote shot just kills posion ammo

[subtle lichen]

You get a hit marker when you get someone, but you don't know how hard you got them for example. That's a nice balance.

[next yarrow]

Make the hit marker/sound different if it successfully poisons a hunter

Or make antidote shots not completely immunity but keeo the marker the same

[subtle lichen]

I don't think that would necessarily change how people play, your best bet in most instances would be to press the attack and get the down/kill

[next yarrow]

It's less about massive changes to gameplay and more about not feeling scammed when your poison ammo doesn't work

Poison ammo doesn't pen and is special resupply, it doesn't need to have it's advantages completely negated with literally no counterplay

[subtle lichen]

I mean, I have to agree that antidote shots are a bit too OP atm. They're dirt cheap and most people would or should be running them.

[next yarrow]

If poison ammo is oppressive without immunity then tweak the numbers on that

[unborn gyro]

Well they literally just buffed bleed and fire ... I agree with the point that the existing traits are lackluster compared to full immunity (poison shot). I am not a fan of these gimmicky ammos but I am also in the minority as I preferred the old style of hunt play before all the ammo stuff. People begged for it and now that we have it we're talking about more layers to balance.

[unborn dagger]

Especially with death traps

[unborn gyro]

I stand by gaming community doesn't know a damn thing about game design and a fair bit more than half of the crap we ask for is pure rubbish.

[subtle lichen]

No argument here. That guy at Blizzard who said "You think you do but you don't" was wrong about WoW Classic specifically, but there's plenty of things that would correctly apply to.

[next yarrow]

Fire ammo isn't that big of a deal imo

Centennial dumdum feels like an addition that was planned when medium rifles still did medium bleed to me

[unborn gyro]

Medium ammo sucks in general. They should simply set the drop off to occur at 20 meters instead of 10 to offset it from compact and allow it to get some gains on long ammo. Long ammo is s-tier supreme in almost every situation given all extract are on edge of map. We need extracts in middle of map or something because long ammo meta gonna never change because it's simply better and $$ cost is not a balance factor for anyone halfway good at the game.

[late quartz]

I don't think anybody would want everything telegraphed. We don't need damage numbers or a kill feed etc. but knowing whether or not somebody can completely invalidate zoning mechanics for example is... pretty important.

Being able to just walk through fire and poison makes them unreliable area control, concertina is reliable because it will always have a substantial impact on movement even with traits

In order to walk through an area where somebody placed barbed wire there is a predictable amount of time or sound that'll be made, players can build gamesense around that

having mechanics that sometimes work and sometimes don't means you need to hedge your bets, yes, but that just means the mechanics become irrelevant because resources are so limited

There's a reason why there should never be a trait that reduces choke bomb effectiveness, and it's not because it would be too overpowered but because it would negate a level of consistency and gamesense

Readability isn't all or nothing, and it seems like you're framing it as one

[subtle lichen]

Two words. Gas. Mask.

[late quartz]

._.

[unborn gyro]

One of the problems with choke bombs is that it's almost mandatory with the change to fire bombs that now last 5 minutes. You can't just go put out your friend anymore. You gotta choke them.

[subtle lichen]

I jest, but it's just one of those things I don't think everyone would ever agree on.

[subtle lichen]

Kinky

[unborn gyro]

So one change exacerbates issues elsewhere.

haha

[late quartz]

Well, fire and chokes are something I'd consider a core mechanic

And the solution here is to increase the availability of the choke mechanic outside of just tools. We see this in small ways with the choke beetle and bolts

[subtle lichen]

The three damage types are core for sure

[unborn gyro]

but should it be "required" for us to carry choke bombs almost 100% of time in group/organized play? Feels like everyone should just have a free slot for med kit and choke bomb.

[late quartz]

I wouldn't consider bleed or poison core mechanics

[unborn gyro]

free med kit and choke bombs would certainly improve the random queue and new player experience

[late quartz]

Fire is simply because of how it interacts with how many extra lives you have

[subtle lichen]

They both force the victim to change what they're doing. Poison forces you to back off, while bleeding needs to be staunched eventually. Fire admittedly had uses elsewhere but I think they're all varying levels of important

[unborn gyro]

I wouldn't mind seeing bleeds tic you down to the nearest health chunk and if the damage takes you into your last chunk then you gonna die i fyou don't tend it.

[subtle lichen]

Free medkit should be a thing for sure

Doesn't the game even warn you if you try and queue without one?

[little jackal]

🤨

[late quartz]

I don't think Hunt would be a substantially different game with bleed and poison removed.
Without the burnout mechanic I think it would play very very differently

Bleed is just a DoT and poison a CC debuff. They're there but they don't really define how the game plays on a broad level

[subtle lichen]

Substantially? Probably not a huge amount no. But I still think they bring quite a lot to how the game flows.

Besides, poison is PvE MVP.

[unborn dagger]

I'm honestly wondering how they could fix this issue without making medkits free. Medkits is just a requirement to bring in at this point.

[subtle lichen]

Have medkit just be a thing every hunter has and have a specific keybind for it. Reduce the tools slots to 3 if necessary.

[wise sapphire]

3 slots was a thing at one point but it was deemed as not enough

[crystal plume]

It was 3 with frontiersman making it 4

[subtle lichen]

I assume Medkits took up a slot back then too? If everyone always takes it, then taking it out of the tools section and reducing it to 3 would work.

Since everyone always uses one slot for medkit anyway

[crystal plume]

Also idk if medkits are necessarily a requirement/necessity anymore

My friend ran the entire event with just regen shot

Worked out for them

I also stopped bothering with traits like doctor which I previously considered meta, with regen I didn't feel the need

[subtle lichen]

Doctor is fantastically expensive for what it is.

#game-ideas message Then you'd have the opposite problem. The guys outside would know that the boss killers have to come out within a certain time, so there's no need to try and rush.

[royal grove]

wicked bear totally stole my idea and i love it

SnakeFangs — Today at 1:19 PM
Title: Event skins
they already do that

[valid linden]

What'cha think about damage effects rework?

[trail carbon]

They already do have to come out at a certain point though. I'm not saying their suggestion is perfect, but it does just reduce the amount of time you have to wait for them to come out.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I think regen shot is a little overturned now honestly.

[late quartz]

@valid linden #game-ideas message TBH I think a better overall solution would be to separate poison from AI and poison from players into two different categories.

Changing AI poison into "venom" or "toxin" and allow shots to counter that, while having no effect on hunter poison would solve most of the issues outright

It'd certainly make the system a bit more complex but it's really nothing some handy dandy color coding wouldn't fix right up

[green moat]

I will try it out 🙂

[stark fulcrum]

@green moat just remember to watch YouTube tutorial videos to get started then find your own groove. You're gonna fail a lot at first, but once you get the hang of it thats how you'll become wealthy lol.

[silent ocean]

damn this game has hella cheaters at higher ranks these days

Used to be such a clean game for so many years, feels like last 4-6 months has really ramped up

[short smelt]

What do my fellow console players think about Mouse and Keyboard? You guys getting as frustrated as me?

[tiny pivot]

#game-ideas message

yeah i wanted this for a while lol

but also theres a balance to it and for past looking/future seeing reference, it would make apetures immediately more useless than they already arguably are

so i would not see them doing it any time soon

[unborn dagger]

How are they considered useless? It's a sight that allows you to switch between scoped and unscoped

[tiny pivot]

useless is a strong word, but i would adamantly say "bad" in the same way as nitro sights

[unborn dagger]

Yes but that is the trade off to have that kind of option.

[turbid hound]

they do, but first one to whine about being forced out of cover gonna be the ones who whined about implementing that trash.
Ambush and patience is the most crucial thing in warfare, always was, always will be.
If i need to sit in a compound for 15 minutes, i will. Waiting for a good opportunity to strike, or leave and relocate myself to another cover(or extraction).
Same goes for bush wookies. Until we get a some sort of replay of the full match system, there is not saying in what was that, a rat hiding for opportune moment, or a careful and aware player that heard you and sat in ambush.

addition: rat hiding the whole game in one bush

[late quartz]

If you have bounty, you chose to take on the risks associated with it. You're never ever going to be FORCED to pick it up, it's always going to be a give and take.

If you'd rather AFK in boss lair, don't pick it up, risk somebody with serpent taking it lol.

Or better yet just don't banish the boss. If you don't feel like that situation favors you, letting somebody else take on that risk and challenging them when they're forced to leave is a perfectly valid option that exists currently as well.

[turbid hound]

how does that oppose anything that i wrote?

i banish boss, take bounty

why is this have to force me to play dangerously

[late quartz]

Why does having bounty mark you on the map for the whole lobby?

Because it's a unique state, it's the game's objective, it is meant to create and encourage PvP encounters by giving players who have it some advantages and some disadvantages

[turbid hound]

so you as a player without one know where to go to fight for it

[late quartz]

Right, the goal is to get people to fight

[turbid hound]

and people free to fight at their own pace

[late quartz]

yeah that's awful, that's the worst

Just because you don't mind sitting around for 45 minutes doesn't mean that's the optimal way for the game to be set up LOL

[turbid hound]

that's not optimal, but it is viable

[late quartz]

It is actively detracting from the experience of the game

[turbid hound]

and as long as it is viable, it is gonna be used

[late quartz]

Yes. Make it less viable.

That's the point, yes

Systemically discourage passive play because it's too strong in the current state of the game

[turbid hound]

but forcing people out of passive playstyle is not something this game needs

you want to fight more active, go play quake

[late quartz]

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

"If you don't like it just leave"

[turbid hound]

kinda yes, but actually no

[late quartz]

Literally exactly what you are saying ._.

Nobody here is asking for the game to become a deathmatch gamemode

[turbid hound]

as i said, ambush and patience is a core of a warfare

[late quartz]

This isn't ARMA we're not larping a war LOL

[turbid hound]

then why this game is not full of unicorns?

[late quartz]

It's full of literal magic swamp monsters my man

[turbid hound]

and why this game have such things as stamina?

there is a limit to realism and unrealism

[late quartz]

Sure. This is decernibly not a simulator type game

it's an arcadey extraction shooter

Most of the community is here because the PvP is good

[turbid hound]

it's not COD either

[late quartz]

^

[turbid hound]

then why you ask to make games faster?

forcing players out of cover for no apparent reason is dumb

[late quartz]

It's not for no apparent reason ._.

[turbid hound]

and mind you, the ones that ask for forcing players of of cover is the ones that don't want to push

[late quartz]

Because right now there are very few effective tools for aggression and dislodging players out of powerful positions.
In the vast majority of encounters passivity is the correct choice, and whichever player or group of players chooses to take action will be put at a significant disadvantage.

The game heavily discourages players from moving the pace of the game forward universally, but in the case of bounty team staying in boss lair the problem is amplified to a level that creates extremely unengaging gameplay because neither team has any actual reason to do anything. Both teams know that making the first move will most likely result in a loss.

Bounty is the game's objective, its goal is to encourage players to come together for PvP. The bounty fails to create PvP if players who arrive first are able to create an insurmountable advantage with next to no counterplay outside of waiting out the clock until the game forces them out.

The smart play is to wait for the timer (a systemic incentive for the bounty team to move) so that they give up their advantage.
The reality is that most people are not going to have a good experience waiting that long, and that both teams will have a more engaging experience if the PvP happens sooner.

[late quartz]

Neither team wants to push

The game punishes pushing

This is an anti-push game

[turbid hound]

exactly

that does not mean there should be special mechanic to punish passive gameplay

[late quartz]

And so moving a little bit in the other direction isn't "turning it into CoD" or removing any element of strategy or patience or timing or ambush

Having bounty is a unique situation, it means you're essentially the focus of the entire lobby.
Players with bounty should not be given the opportuinity to hold the lobby hostage

[turbid hound]

no one hold anyone hostage

[late quartz]

If you take bounty and concertina every entrance to boss lair yes you're holding the lobby hostage

[turbid hound]

it's not like if you extract without bounty means you lost the game

[late quartz]

"Go next" is not a solution ._.

Individual matches should not be a test of who's most willing to sit around for 45 minutes

[turbid hound]

"you're dead because you think for more than 5 minutes" also

[late quartz]

Nobody is upset about fights taking 5 minutes

[turbid hound]

that was a nudge into the starter suggestion

i get that waiting for 30 minutes is frustrating, but placing the proactive team into the biggest disadvantage the game can offer is the worst solution ever

that way boss will be banished at the 30 minutes mark

[late quartz]

The proactive team is the one that gets a choice

[turbid hound]

and nothing much changes

[late quartz]

If you have the opportunity to banish boss, you're given autonomy over the risks you assume

Being first to banish is an advantage, just like having dark sight boost

[turbid hound]

and i think that bounty is quite balanced as is

[late quartz]

I agree, aside from the fact that it can lead to lair squatting

[turbid hound]

you get a moment of legal wallhack at your convinience in exchange to big flashing arrow over your head

and as i said, lair squatting, while frustrating, is a playstyle, and i don't think anyone should be punished for it

some like to play slower

[late quartz]

If you like to play slower don't pick up bounty

[turbid hound]

making more calculated moves

[late quartz]

Some playstyles are bad

Games remove playstyles all the time lol

I don't care that some people like doing a thing if it detracts from the game on the whole

[turbid hound]

how is that differs from "go play quake"/"just leave"?

[rugged iron]

Just because someone dosnt like lets say sniping for example dosnt mean you should take it out of the game

[turbid hound]

exactly

[late quartz]

If you like to play stealthy should you pick up a bounty token?

No, because it marks you

Risk vs reward choices are not the same as "just don't play Hunt"

[turbid hound]

it either in game from the start, or you play with it for the rest of the game

[rugged iron]

Ye because its the literal gameplay loop

[late quartz]

Clue camping used to be a "valid playstyle". They added angry clues to make it weaker and lesss powerful

Same for boss whispers

This is the exact same thing

You can still play Hunt slowly, you can still take bounty and not be a crackhead and run out of lair immediately

You just can't sit in there for 35 minutes

[turbid hound]

you can play around compound stealthily with token if you quick about it

[rugged iron]

Literaly

[late quartz]

Yeah. You can take token and still play slow... it just has a greater level of risk LOL

[rugged iron]

The lightning is inacurate af

[turbid hound]

but to be quick, you need to have information, and time to think your next move thorouly

[rugged iron]

Only gives a general direction

[rugged iron]

Which is the reason behind the bounty

[turbid hound]

also that, yes

[late quartz]

Yes, true

That's why adding an anti-camp mechanic to bounty token makes sense. It is a risk vs reward mechanic that players opt into

[rugged iron]

No

[turbid hound]

and if youo dont like to play for 45 minutes, you could suggest to trim time of a match to like 20 mins

[rugged iron]

It removes playstyles which is always a bad choice

[late quartz]

But that's not the problem

[turbid hound]

but no one(mostly) suggests it

[rugged iron]

Especialy in a game that is supposed to be played more slowly its a bad idea

[late quartz]

It just doesn't. And it also just isn't LOL

Again, you can still play hunt slowly

[turbid hound]

you cant play slowly if you literally forced not to

and removing playstyle is a bad choice yes

[signal mural]

Honestly people who just want their preferred playstyle in Hunt need to grow up and go play another game that caters to their preference. It's a sandbox extraction shooter... play how you want camp a boss lair, bushwookie everyone, snipe from the tallest tower, bum-rush & bunny-hop, wall bang & barb bomb the exits... IDC- just realize that diversity is the spice of life and if you didn't have those frusterarions occasionally you wouldn't have that sweet feeling of vindication when you trounce that playstyle you can't stand.

[late quartz]

There are 45 minute matches that are exciting, interesting, tactical. The match timer isn't the problem.

The problem is that the game can stall for an extended period of time where nothing happens.

[rugged iron]

The thing that makes lair camping so viable rn is the fact that there are compounds which are just poorly designed with camping in mind for example pitching or stillwater. Meanwhile compounds like davant can easily be pushed even when camped

[turbid hound]

the matches that are 45 mins long consists of mix of waiting and acting

you defend the choice of removing waiting

[rugged iron]

Tbf if u end up waiting 45 min on a team to exit the lair its your own fault

[late quartz]

Sure. Neither you nor I want hunt to be 100% action 100% of the time LOL

Nobody wants the game to have no waiting

It is one specific scenario that is problematic... not all passive play, not all waiting

[turbid hound]

yet you say that there should be a strict limit on waiting

[late quartz]

In one particular scenario

And no not even a strict limit necessarily

[turbid hound]

which still limits gameplay

[late quartz]

I think it's pathological to not want to limit gameplay in any way LOL

[turbid hound]

there is either a strict limit, or everyone will continue to complain about camping

[late quartz]

Yeah... it limits gameplay, so does having health, so does having boss whispers and clue alerts, so does only having 3 extracts, so does marking bounty carriers

[turbid hound]

and vague limits is a always a bad choice

[late quartz]

I don't agree. It's not a binary

[rugged iron]

Camping aint the issue. Its the people that let it happen

[late quartz]

No. It's a systemic problem. it's no group of player's fault it's a result of the pressures and incentives the game creates

[turbid hound]

if hunt had anticamping from the start no one would have said a word

[late quartz]

Yes true

[turbid hound]

hammering it now in a game is like hero siege 2.0

[late quartz]

They added Dark Sight Boost, they added boss whispers and clue alerts which are all anti-camping mehcanics

[rugged iron]

It is indeed your fault to wait 45 mins on a team to make a move just to satisfy your ego because u killed em at the end even tho you couldv played a full match in the meantime

[late quartz]

The game is better for it

[late quartz]

I understand that you just wanna blame somebody but... this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard lol

Again, "go next" isn't a solution to bad game balance

[rugged iron]

I just don't get why ppl if they see others camp just feel forced to sit and wait for em to make a move

[late quartz]

"Just leave lol"

[late quartz]

Because you queue into a game you wanna play that game

[rugged iron]

Thats literaly it

Why wait for em to leave?

To get kills?

To get bounty?

[late quartz]

So you can play the game ._.

[rugged iron]

Both can be easily achieved by playing a second round in the time you wouldv waited

[turbid hound]

and that's the thing that always buggers me

why you wait for me to move, when you can move yourself

[late quartz]

So, again, this is a systemic problem... The solution isn't "go next" it's "don't let people waste so much time that they could've played a whole other match before anything happens"

[late quartz]

Because both teams will be at a disadvantage if they push first

Nobody wants to eat a massive disadvantage

[signal mural]

If you're having issues breaking into a compound then your load out & traits aren't appropriate for that... leave the campers, pull back to a likely route of escape & make an ambush point.

[turbid hound]

"go next" is a still bad, but a solution to"don't let people waste so much time that they could've played a whole other match before anything happens"

[turbid hound]

then dont force no one to take the pill

come on

[late quartz]

Nobody is forced

Nobody has to take bounty

Somebody will do it for you if you don't

[turbid hound]

game will feel super unfair if you force a playstyle

[late quartz]

Okay you gotta realize you're looping back onto this

[turbid hound]

"just don't play game"

[late quartz]

Not even remotely the same thing

[turbid hound]

why?

[rugged iron]

It is

[turbid hound]

not taking a token is a disadvantage of it's own

less info, and you don't control the flow of a fight

[late quartz]

YES it's a risk vs reward, you have to pick which set of advantages and disadvantages you think are best for your situation.

If you don't want to be in a situation where you are at risk, you don't need to. If you don't think you can win a fight where you take bounty first, you don't need to just quit the game or extract, you can still play out that match and win WITH A TOKEN even if you don't take it first.

[late quartz]

Precisely yes

[turbid hound]

there is already a risk for a reward

[late quartz]

Yes

[turbid hound]

so?

[signal mural]

This is ridiculous - stagnant load outs lead to stagnant play. Play to your load out strengths or make judgement calls to have the advantage. This is like people who gripe about weather effects when they take a scope...

[late quartz]

There is a problem in Hunt showdown that creates very long protracted stalemates due to the way that bounty works.

Adding another risk vs reward mechanic to bounty to aleviate this systemic issue is perfectly in line with existing design philosophy. It's not more or less of a "limit to playstyles" than other things that exist in hunt, it's just a new one that exists to address contemporary problems.

[late quartz]

Even with a very powerful close range loadout you're still put at a considerable disadvantage when pushing an entrenched team.
Passive play is in general stronger in Hunt Showdown than active play. The tools for active play are weaker overall and come at greater risk to use

[rugged iron]

The problem that causes standoffs is you

The person that waits

[turbid hound]

new risk should be coming with new reward. any ideas?

[subtle lichen]

I'm not closely following this, let's say "discussion", but sitting in the boss lair and running down the timer is pretty much exactly what not to do in my experience. People camping outside often don't expect a breakout if you're smart about it. And with dark sight boost, you can make use of it to gain a tactical advantage. You'll know where they're waiting for you and can exploit that.

[late quartz]

Not necessarily. It's the objective of the game, the most explicit victory state and the best way to gain in game rewards generally speaking. I don't think it needs to be "balanced out".

[subtle lichen]

Might be different at higher levels, but that's what I've seen a lot.

[turbid hound]

then why we dont add more automatic weapons in game

[subtle lichen]

Even when the outsiders setup an ambush point, with smart use of dark sight boost you can know it's coming and adapt.

[late quartz]

Totally unrelated issue

Automatic weapons have literally no bearing on this conversation lol

[turbid hound]

that's harsh but i hope you catch my drift

[late quartz]

I do not know what you're implying no

[signal mural]

That's not my experience in my 1.2k hours of Hunt.

[turbid hound]

if something is not balanced, then it will be unfair to the exposed party

why bother with it then?

or play any other way?

[late quartz]

I'm still not sure what you mean but if I understand correctly my response is that i don't feel that this would create a state of imbalance

Generally speaking, you should tackle one issue at a time and see where it leads.

If they did add some type of anti-lair squatting mechanic and they found that this created new problems, like first team to take bounty losing an overwhelming amount of the time, that would be a problem that would need its own tailored solution based on the specific outcomes

[turbid hound]

and that was the way of the game for all of it's lifetime

[late quartz]

Yes, I'm not trying to make hunt a totally different game

[turbid hound]

but you do

[late quartz]

This one particular situation exacerbates that element of the game's pace to an unhealthy degree

Hunt with no lair squatting isn't a different game, it's just better hunt showdown lol

[turbid hound]

it's faster hunt showdown

not nesessarily better

[late quartz]

Hunt showdown where nobody has a match where multiple teams sit around a compound for 20+ minutes without any meaningful PvP encounters is necessarily better, yes

[turbid hound]

with this logic they could lower time limit to 20 mins, really

[subtle lichen]

While I see your point, I'm not sure that "better" would be a universal opinion here.

[late quartz]

Nobody enjoys sitting around for a half hour

Nobody

[turbid hound]

then don't

push

[late quartz]

People are worried about externalities of getting rid of that dynamic

[turbid hound]

or you scared of a chance of losing

sitting team also scared

but making game unfair for defendants is stupid

[late quartz]

Players will optimize their chances of winning at the cost of making the experience less enjoyable. This is a known fact about how games work.

I'm sure you heard the quote "players will optimize the fun out of games". It's the job of the game itself and by extension its developers to create systems and dynamics that make optimal play fun rather than boring or frustrating.

Asking that individual players throw the game because they're bored is not a healthy or scalable solution

[subtle lichen]

This is a known fact. If doing something unfun that confers an advantage is standard fare and to an extent I agree.

[turbid hound]

i heard, yes. but making it unfair is gonna make game more frustrating

[late quartz]

It's not unfair

Taking bounty is never forced on you

There's no fair or unfair about it. It's a choice

You choose to take the risk

[turbid hound]

"just don't play the damn game"

[late quartz]

Do you want me to actually address this again :V

I'll do it if you want

[turbid hound]

never forced on you, but by not taking it you place yourselt at a disadvantage

[late quartz]

You're choosing one set of advantages and disadvantages over another

[turbid hound]

we're looping here, i sense

[turbid hound]

and if you think that exposing tokens to a serpent players is not disadvantage, then you wrong(i think)

[late quartz]

If you think having bounty and dark sight is more beneficial in your particular situation, you take it
If you think you can't fight your way out of a boss lair once the banish is done, you don't.

Sure, both come with ups and downs... that's not a problem, that's not unfair... If you don't take bounty, somebody else does, and then they are forced to leave the lair

That's not unfair in any way

[late quartz]

No, it certainly is. That's the risk you take by not picking it up

[signal mural]

If people are camping counter-measures:

Traits: Trap-sense, Lightfoot, Pitcher

Consumables: TNT, sticky, hive bombs, flash bombs, chaos bombs

Tools: traps, chokes

Methods:
Stealth- open a lot of doors & windows, keep them guessing, scan for traps in dark sight if you have trap sense, disable any traps if deemed safe, & vault or sneak in

Chaos-breach: charge the compound, use chaos bombs and all sound alerts available, use TNT to clear doors & traps, choke or flash the campers - breach & clear

Tactical: counter-trap their likely exits, throw in hive bombs to hopefully sting them and give away location - use FMJs to wall bang,

or just fall-back and watch for them exiting...

[turbid hound]

you insist that proactive team have to be at constant disadvantage

that's the opposite of faster

[late quartz]

Any time you interact with the bounty you are getting some benefits and some drawbacks

That's not being at a "constant disadvantage"

[turbid hound]

and that's enough as is

[late quartz]

Usually, yeah, I agree

Except unfortunately we find outselves in a situation where a fairly narrow set of scenarios lead to 20+ minute stalemates

So narrowly tailoring a system or mechanic to counteract that unhealthy dynamic sounds kinda good

[turbid hound]

if you force the forward team to make a choice between bad and worse, that's disadvantage

[late quartz]

Okay, but that's not what you're doing

It's a false framing

You're not choosing between "bad or worse" when you get the option to kill/banish boss. everybody else in the lobby isn't being given that choice

If you choose to banish and take bounty everybody else is getting your other option

If you choose not to, you're getting that other option

[turbid hound]

if you suggest that you either take bounty and bounce, or sit and wait, that just gonna shift the sitting point

5 mins of waiting is not enough for everyone

[signal mural]

If you're choosing to wait for an advantage that you're not creating.... then that's your fault.

[late quartz]

I don't believe that to be the case. If any team chooses to enter and hunker down in boss lair, they will be flushed out by the same mechanic.

if they choose to serpent, they're at greater risk since they're probably out in the open and will likely then choose to run or move, giving more opportunity to fight.

The maps are set up in a way where buildings surrounding boss lairs are smaller, easier to breach or flush out with consumables, so squatting in nearby buildings has les potential for stalemates.

I don't believe all 4 teams will choose to sit in a circle around boss lair with nobody serpenting or going in to grab the bounty.
IF IT DOES HAPPEN and it becomes a significant problem, which I do not believe will be the case, it can be addressed in the future based on the specific ways it manifests which will give the developers information on how best to tackle it

[late quartz]

This makes... literally no sense...

If the game's systems create incentives that encourage waiting, that's the game's fault. It's not the players fault for acting predictably given a set of systems and pressures.

If you could sit and wait at spawn for 35 minutes to get an extra 12 health people would do it lol

[signal mural]

You're not using the game's incentives to push

[late quartz]

Because they're not good enough incentives.

It is always stronger and less risky to just be the passive party. If the other team has to leave boss lair due to the match timer flushing them out you will be at a really big advantage with almost not risk associated with it.

The tools the game gives you for pushing are not very good.

They just nerfed the single strongest aggressive tool in the game

Flashes were basically your best option because they were fast and hard to react to

The skill and risk associated with other options are so much greater than just waiting and hoping the bounty team leaves first

And vice versa, leaving lair is much weaker than hoping the other team gets bored and pushes into your area of control

Whoever gets bored and plays the game first is sacrificing their advantages in favor of trying to have a good time

[signal mural]

Why are you playing Hunt?

[late quartz]

I think Hunt has a very unique take on extraction shooters that I appreciate, I think its gunplay is very unique in the industry right now, I think it's a rewarding and interesting experience

[signal mural]

Good. Then what's more important - bounty extraction or killing other Hunters and engagement PVP?

[late quartz]

Bounty exists as an incentive to encourage PvP encounters.

how do you get 12 players in a big map to find eachother and fight

[signal mural]

You didn't answer my question.

[late quartz]

I don't think I can give you a better answer

[signal mural]

You as a player... What's more important?

[late quartz]

I don't think either one is more important I think they're both integral parts of the game

Well, here

Hows this

[signal mural]

Do you need that bounty? Are you financially strained?

[late quartz]

I would not continue to play hunt if I could only queue into empty lobbies, I wouldn't farm bounty tokens if it didn't in some way contribute to the PvP elements of hunt

Hunt showdown would not be a good single player game

[signal mural]

The stalker beetles were designed as an anti-camper tool - no one uses them really...

[late quartz]

I love stalker beetles

I use em frequently

Not trying to like argue with you, you're right they're not popular

But I think they're a great addition and a step in the right direction

They need buffs to make the more reliable teamwork/intel tools

You should be able to serpent them, for example, to encourage using them for intel gathering rather than as a one-and-done kamikaze bomb

Perhaps as its own trait

[late quartz]

But regardless, what's your point here? What're you trying to get at?

[signal mural]

Ok so PVP has priority. If counter-camping a bounty holding team isn't doing it for you, and you don't want to push because you don't want to overcome a disadvantage then just go to the boss lair 3rd party anyone else you find and extract when the bounty camps too long. You'll still come out with more money and XP then if you die.

[late quartz]

If you have 1200 hours in hunt you know that's really not a very good suggestion :P

And yet still, I'd just say that both elements are important and PvP encounters revolving around bounty are part of what makes Hunt's PvP unique and enjoyable

If it were just an open world deathmatch game it probably wouldn't be nearly as fun

[signal mural]

If the bounty-holders camp really stagnant then they either feel at a disadvantage or have shotguns & fanning... then you need to wager your chances of success and make a judgement call. Figure out a way in or back-off and get at them enroute to extract.

[late quartz]

I do not think this is a personal choice "adapt" situation. I think this is a result of poorly meshed mechanics and incentives that should not exist.
I'm not asking you for your personal advice on how you think I should deal with it

Believe me dude I know how to play the game LOL

I don't want Hunt to be a fundamentally different game. It just doesn't really seem to benefit anybody when there's 20~30 minutes of downtime in the middle of a match.

The game should probably make some changes to discourage that gameplay, I think it would benefit everybody's enjoyment of the game.

[signal mural]

Not mine.

[turbid hound]

by forcing player out of cover you just turn game into a death match.

[late quartz]

This is a problem that gets complained about all the time, from both sides as well. It's not like it's just the people on the outside who dislike it.

The problem will not go away by saying "it's the players fault for not pushing". That's not how game development works.

[late quartz]

I don't think this is the case and I have a massive amount of trouble imagining you believe it either lol

The ONE THING keeping hunt from being deathmatch... is the fact that people can sit in boss lair for an unlimited amount of time...

Nah

[signal mural]

I've read hundreds of anti-camper posts... coughing, poison-gas in the lairs, stiff-joints so you can't uncrouch, flys buzzing around the campers, more paranoid noises for campers, etc etc

[turbid hound]

Kinda, I like to over exaggerate, but the thought in it

[late quartz]

Hyperbole can help to illustrate your point, it or can completely obfuscate it

In this case I think it's moreso doing the latter lol

If you wanna grab bounty and walk to the literal next compound over

Then set up your concertina lair

tbh fair

In no way would this remove your ability to camp or play slowly or defensively or passively

It is one specific scenario within this game that probably ends up being unhealthy. Changing this would not change the pace of the entire game

[signal mural]

Serpent their bounties if they don't take them. Wall-bang them if the do take them. If they are in a basement get in there or fall back and let them crawl out...

[late quartz]

Honestly true just get 3 wallbang headshots and take bounty

I agree that would solve it

I can't BELIEVE nobody has ever thought of that before

Just kill them

[signal mural]

The only true advantage a bounty holder has is time. He has what you want, either you try to go and get it or just pack your shit n go.

[subtle lichen]

I mean, the bounty is kinda worthless unless you actually manage to extract it right?

[late quartz]

You don't believe that lol

Again if you have 1200 hours in this game

[subtle lichen]

That's where the big dollars come from

[late quartz]

Positional advantage is kinda massive

Just saying "either you fight or you don't fight" doesn't solve the issue, it describes the issue

That's the problem lol

"They have what you want, either you wait until they have 5 minutes on the clock and are forced to leave for extract, walk in and die, or you go extract and queue for the next game"

[signal mural]

Yeah and you're asking for one sides positional advantage to be compromised for your gain.

[late quartz]

Not for my gain

I also take the banish the boss and take bounty lol

I don't think whoever chooses to take bounty should be able to infinitely leverage their position. What that creates is a way for players to hold the game hostage. Players should not be given that choice, and should be encouraged by the game to engage with other players in PvP

If this were the case sometimes I would choose to take bounty first, sometimes I wouldn't. It would be a tactical risk vs reward decision

[signal mural]

Some don't banish. Some kill the boss and camp it's lair.

[late quartz]

Sure, Serpent exists to counter that

[dusky tapir]

@keen bolt #game-ideas message putting a deadeye on a m1873c would be a straight upgrade over the vandal ( which is a c )

[late quartz]

Funny how they add mechanics to fix these problems ._.

Wow people camp clues? Add angry clues

People camp boss lair? Boss whispers?

People camp outside boss lair during banish and ambush token carriers????? ADD DARK SIGHT BOOST LOL

All this shit was added to counter camping

All of it makes the game better

[signal mural]

A dead boss doesn't give off whispers.

[late quartz]

I guess not.

If camping a dead boss excessively became a major issue I'd argue maybe they should lol

Same way we got whispers in the first place

That wasn't just in the game from the start. They added that

Did that RUIN PASSIVE PLAY and throw the game into a state of CoD-like aggressive chaos?

Prolly not lul

Dead bosses don't give whispers for basically the opposite reason, to prevent people in boss lair from being able to infinitely scan for nearby players. Killing boss removes that team's ability to feel secure while camping lair

[signal mural]

Honestly now your just being belligerent and patronizing. My point is there are a plethora of tools to assault a camper compound - their effectiveness is highly variable and you need to weigh your advantages and disadvantages. The bounty holders lair becomes a King of the Hill - all eyes are theoretically on them. If their idea of fun is hunkering down, then let them do that. It's your choice how & if you participate.

[late quartz]

I'm not sure how I'm being any more belligerent than I have been this whole time but fair I suppose... I do think the point I'm making is somewhat self evident based on the history of the game's development. We've seen numerous mechanics in this same vein that are all now universally accepted parts of the game.

I think people have a major tendency towards conservatism in gaming. The idea that the game could be better with changes rather than simply "adapting" is often outright rejected, particularly in shooters for whatever reason.

If their idea of fun is hunkering down, then let them do that.
It is inevitable that some people's fun will harm a game. Cheaters enjoy cheating, that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to. Many gamers love to slur and harass, that's part of their fun, doesn't really constitute a healthy behavior.

Many players liked using lightfoot to move completely silently, yet it was removed as it created an unhealthy playstyle.
Many players liked camping clues, yet it was removed as it created and unhealthy playstyle.

I simply do not believe "it's a playstyle" is in itself a reason why something ought to be left unchanged.

If you choose to be king of the hill, you take the benefits and you take the drawbacks.
extremely long periods of inactivity detract from the game. These situations seem to only exist around boss lair squatting. It seems fairly reasonable to address this problem by making changes to the bounty team rather than just going "well if you don't like it push"

Everybody knows they can just push, or go extract. It hasn't fixed the problem.

The problem doesn't need to exist in the first place.
Will it make one very particular playstyle weaker? Yeah sure. I don't think that's a reason not to do it. Not all playstyles can exist in all games all the time.

I'm not spitefully wishing bad things upon a group of people I don't like, I'm not one of those people who frames this as a problem with "shotgun players" or "scope players", I don't wanna ruin anybody's fun but this problem is real and the fix for it seems to make the most sense if it targets the team who has the most choice over the situation

[subtle lichen]

#game-ideas message You can't run a live service game on hopes and dreams. They gotta sell something to keep the lights on.

[signal mural]

Hmmm... well my entire next message got filtered and deleted. I can only guess it because I said cheaters are a (usually terminal illnesses) and campers are more like a common cold.

You can't compare them.

[finite hedge]

Why did my settings all get reset? also it is asking me to relink mg account

and also asking me to redo the tutorial as pres 12

[late quartz]

I feel like that's probably a pretty small factor in the overall point to focus on, but I do think they can be compared.
They're not IDENTICAL, obviously but it highlights the reality that certain ways of playing can be harmful.

I included several examples, from toxic communication, to use of external cheating, to use of exploits (arguably another form of cheating), to a more innocuous abuse of a normal game system.

This highlights myriad ways in which a players playtstyle or engagement with the game can be negative, and across all examples despite being somewhat different remains the fact that simply because it's a playstyle doesn't mean it's necessarily good or should be kept unchanged.

You may say cheating is too different, which I frankly wouldn't agree with, but that was but one example among many

[signal mural]

Probably didn't register the Cloud data. Alt-F4 and relaunch... If it persists then maybe it's a bigger issue.

[little jackal]

can happen if the game did not exit properly, just wipes the entire client data

[signal mural]

Most of the examples you gave are dispicable toxic community problems. I just don't see campers to be anywhere in that group but I guess that is a fundamental difference in our POVs.

[late quartz]

I don't think clue camping is any more or less despicable. I don't think abusing Lightfoot was despicable, but a predictable result of an abusable mechanic.

People react predictably given a set scenario with a set of incentives and pressures

[finite hedge]

tried relaunching didn't do anytihng

sad i am just gunna save the file for settings. does anyone have the optimal pvp stuff

[late quartz]

I think the fact that you're shying away from these examples sort of indicates that you see how they're relevant. They're examples of "valid playstyles" that dont break any rules or rely on any sort of malice that nonetheless got removed or altered to better balance the game.

I don't think the people clue camping or using Lightfoot were bad people, just like I don't think lair campers are bad people, I think the game encourages people to play in ways that ought not be encouraged

[signal mural]

Sorry to hear; then AF's post was probably right spot on.

[finite hedge]

[signal mural]

I'm actually just at work and have limited time & space to offer a more detailed response. Granted clue camper and such were an issue that got fixed, they are not on the same line as cheaters & bigotry.

[late quartz]

That's probably missing the point somewhat

But valid I won't add to your workload lul

Gl buddy good talk

[signal mural]

@fathom gust Your calculations are a bit off because generally 80% of the Event Pass cost are refunded by completing the Events. So although I agree with your sentiments it's dramatizing the discrepancies.

[signal mural]

@final wigeon 100M is too generous IMO at least as it is now. I think a gradient zone would make sense... that for every IDK 15M closer your character encroaches into the zone it'd add more seconds to the escaping team's extraction timer. But I think then, that nothing should stop the timer... even a downed bounty hunter or an enemy within 5m of the carriage/boat.

[final wigeon]

You're right

I'll edit the post

[signal mural]

@carmine needle One of my buddies just got into Hunt yesterday and he commented on what a strange world it portrays and asked about the lore... I just found myself blabbering about a pretty convoluted story and I started trying to describe characters like the Sculptor and Mr. Chary... but I think ultimately whatever I must have said was just a gobbled mess.

[carmine needle]

yup! Even my hunt buddies ive been playing with for a while now have no real idea

once upon a time there was a book in game that had some stuff in it, but Hunt lore has always been kinda vague/fit the parts into the whole yourself style

which I enjoy, but all the pieces are scattered across weapons stuff, monster stuff, events, the blog, the website, hunter blurbs, legendary blurbs, etc...

how on earth a new person (or a normal, non-lore goblin person) is supposed to put all that together to understand i dont know. most times we just go "read the wiki, watch Hazmat's stuff, good luck" and that bothers me

[little jackal]

I think there's this particular kind of storytelling that intentionally doesn't spoon-feed you the whole thing. Just pieces of the puzzle here and there to create sorta mysterious setting where you're not supposed to know everything.

imo it fit Hunt very well, and I was even a bit disappointed when they went with that central storyline about Chary

[carmine needle]

See, I do like the vagueness- trying to fit pieces in here and there. but i do think they need to consolidate some. keeping it vague is fine, but having parts all over seems annoying, same as when they posted to twitter but not to here about game announcements- put the lore where anyone can find it, but leave the puzzle solving to the readers

right now, if a new player asks, where can i find the lore for this game, i'd have to say everywhere. dlcs, wiki, in game, on blog, etc... not to mention theres stuff they've been retconning, so we're not even sure what of the old stuff is canon anymore.

[little jackal]

yeah makes sense

[valid linden]

@prime orchid Nice suggestion 🙂 But i made this one too 🙂 #game-ideas message

[trail carbon]

I think you summed it up pretty well. I really want a change to the game that makes it more fun. I'm tired of every game devolving into lair camping.

[trail carbon]

One of the main problems helping lair camping stay an issue is, in my opinion, how compounds are designed in general. DeSalle compounds have a lot more entrances, and are generally harder to camp for several reasons. However, Lawson and Stillwater compounds are much easier to camp because they have only a few entrances, and only a few places to see into the building. They have reworked compounds in the past, and while it wouldn't solve the issue outright, I thunk it would help significantly. (Don't know how they're gonna fix the underground compounds honestly)

[vestal cedar]

Main factor of camping is and always will be selected individual playstyle. Always was and always will be. They can change and influence environment however they want but it will never change camper playstyle. Too many changes can have a negative impact on game itself though. Well coordinated "push" against a team camping the boss layer is the one and only cure. I know how frustrating it is to play against that kind of playstyle...it is challenging.

[carmine needle]

is that style more common in higher mmrs? I see tina teams on the rare rare occasion in 3/4* matches, but not so often that I feel a change needs to come. And when we've run into it, we've been able to VOIP to other teams in the area to raid the tina crew and blow them out and ruin their camping. but still. super not common, so curious

[native shard]

higher MMRs have consistently better aim with gameplay changes that accompany that
most fights are people taking potshots at each other with bolt action longs, then running in for the wipe if they make it a 3v2. Gameplay is very defender sided, if you try to aggressively push with shotguns against bolt action longs it's a quick way back to the main menu
if you want to make the game less defender sided, the only options you can change are movement speed (lol) or making downs less punishing. Being 1-shot from long ammo after being downed ONCE is downright brutal.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, people are always going to camp, but less people would camp if it wasn't the most optimal playstyle. I'll sometimes find myself sitting inside and doing nothing for multiple minutes on end, because the game encourages it that heavily. Obviously once I realize I've been sitting there, I do something drastic. However, me doing that is super unoptimal, and I will probably lose for it. The current camping meta just sucks for mostly everyone. (I'm sure there are people who enjoy sitting for 15+ minutes at a time, but I'm positive that is not most people) there are a couple of things that can be done to alleviate the camping issue. I think that redesigning some of the hard to push compounds could help a lot. Maybe the bounty value decreases over time or something. I don't know what the best solution is, but I think something has got to change.

[carmine needle]

Fair. There's def locations that my crew and I won't bother with, and will pull back and ambush bounty teams once they've left the location over trying to get into some of the underground maps and places with few entrances

[vestal cedar]

We already have bonus XP for fast extraction, and it did not work. I honestly think it's all about human mentality and individual gameplay experience. SBMM isn't helping either. It is very easy to fall in love with Hunt, and Hunt, being a very unforgivable game with a steep learning curve, will always make some people choose the easier playstyle. Every other game there is have campers. Always had, always will. I'm not saying that there is nothing that they can try...it's just a very difficult phenomenon to address in a way that won't negatively influence all those good parts of the game. Some time ago, I had an idea of Boss Layer Corruption, where corruption would spread within Boss Layer, gradually adding different visual and sound effects. Maybe even detreating HP.

[trail carbon]

I have been thinking about an anti camping mechanic like that, the only issue is that it would have be be jusg intrusive enough to make someone want to leave the building, but not intrusive enough to keep people from going inside. Also, the bonus xp didn't work because most of the community will view it as somewhat worthless.

[vestal cedar]

The more time one would spend inside the Boss Layer after the banish, the more drastic effect it would have on that individual.

So maybe not the layer corruption but hunters being influenced by spending too much time inside side building.

[trail carbon]

That is a hood way to do that. I'm assuming this would only take effect after the banish has finished?

[unborn dagger]

@jagged mango These are all points that I agree with. Not only did the event not do enough to justify it being that long most of the rewards just being filler ruined the bp.

[late quartz]

Some people will always gravitate towards certain playstyles, sure, but whether or not it constitutes a problem within a game is highly dependent not on the players or the choices they make, but on what the game itself rewards with its design.

Well coordinated "push" against a team camping the boss layer is the one and only cure.
The problem with this mentality is that it has nothing to do with game design. Telling players that the only way to break a stalemate is to do something completely ignores what the game does or doesn't do to encourage certain actions over others.
The problem isn't that some people want to play passive or defensively, because that's obviously a fine thing to do, the problem is that the game incentivizes and rewards that type of play far above any other option.
Like Hostage says, "Obviously once I realize I've been sitting there, I do something drastic. However, me doing that is super unoptimal, and I will probably lose for it.". Your mentality, "if you're fighting campers you have to push", fails to analyze the problem on a game design level; the correct thing to do is almost never to be the first team to push, as succeeding while playing aggressive requires a much greater amount of skill and risk than playing passively.

Camping isn't a problem of player choice, it's a problem of design.

[trail carbon]

Being referred to as Hostage has me wheezing

But I guess that's what I get for changing my name in here to my steam name

[valid linden]

What'cha think about Welrod bush-craft rifle ?

[next yarrow]

How is it different than the silent sparks?

[valid linden]

Initial idea was : Almost completely silent, very accurate, powerful cartridge, a scope, bipod-ish attachment that should be used in alt mod

[next yarrow]

I don't like the idea of silenced scopes tbh

[valid linden]

cons: a big kick from the recoil, VERY slow to reload

[valid linden]

Oh, it would be really silent from the effective range, not when you're up close

point blank it would add deafening to you

tbh i had the idea of how it looks and operates earlier than i came up with the stats

@wanton imp What are the cons to it ? #game-ideas message

[wanton imp]

what do you mean by cons

it would only remove status effects when its used

it wouldn't be like a antidote shot where you get immunity to everything

for a set duration

[valid linden]

We have antidote for poison and medkits or manual for bleeding and choking can be avoided ?

i don't get it...

[wanton imp]

its should mainly be used if you have poison to remove it quickly (instead of waiting like 12 seconds)

and well it would be a tool not a consumable

[valid linden]

How is it not consumable ?

[wanton imp]

i don't want it to be a consumable because then it would be useless/pointless
making it a tool instead of a consumable would make it a nice way to deal with poison/bleeding/choking quickly of course if you're bleeding you use the medkit instead

but it would good for those rare situations where someone hits you poison and bleeding at the same time

[valid linden]

It would be useful against be and the boiiis but... i doubt it would be that common

[wanton imp]

the main reason it should be a tool instead because there will always be better options. why would someone a take a cure shot over antidote shot.

well if its a tool it wouldn't take a consumable slot

[valid linden]

Okay... seems fair

[wanton imp]

my main intention for it was for it to be a fast way to deal with poison instead of waiting a while for poison to dissipate

[valid linden]

I get that but you can always buy antidote tier 2 and get 20 minutes without poison

[wanton imp]

not everyone wants to buy a antidote shot every game though.

the price will start to add up. and theres other things you can use like a frag bomb or another vitality shot

[valid linden]

Well... maybe but i didn't see anyone not using one

[wanton imp]

but think about it this way if theres another way to deal with poison then i don't need to take a antidote shot every game. of course it'll work better but i have a extra consumable slot.

when i don't take an antidote shot with.

but then again if i take a cure shot i lose a tool slot though.

[valid linden]

maybe... I usually run a shotgun with bleeding ammo, a pistol with FMJ, Knife, Medkit, Spyglass, Chokes, Vita , Antidote tier 2, Concentrina, Molly and it ain't that expensive considering my win-rate so...

idk about this cure shot

[wanton imp]

yeah its use case is very niche

[valid linden]

Well tbf it still fits a niche so i suggest you make it a consumable instead really, just make it a pack of 3 syringes

[wanton imp]

well i'll post it in the suggestions as an alterative way to add it

[valid linden]

I have a question : Are firearms displayed on hunters in match?

[wanton imp]

Kinda depends on the firearm if its a pistol it will be on the hunters hip, if its a rifle it will be on the hunters back.

don't know how it works with legendary hunters

[valid linden]

I just never noticed guns displayed in a match on leg. hunters

[humble quest]

Guns people have equipped are very much displayed. Depending on the legendary they may be somewhat obscured

[valid linden]

understood, i just wanted to suggest some increased readability for legendary hunters in that regard

@wanton imp in tomahawk suggestion i can give you an idea as to how to implement the mechanics ! When you look at the floor you can place these utilities but when you look in the general direction you can throw it

By pressing the same key

[wanton imp]

or it could used a full aim mode (when you shift + right click to aim it)

thats if you use hunter

hunter keybinds

[valid linden]

I use hunter but my friend uses gunslinger

[valid linden]

• i want to use shift to run in case of utilities

[wanton imp]

true but you can just not press right click

[valid linden]

true

@wanton imp What'cha think about crosshair customization ?

[wanton imp]

Hmm

it would be cool

though i don't think they are gonna add something like that

[valid linden]

Well... Maybe but unique crosshairs for the type of the gun would be nice

Like ( ) for shotguns

[wanton imp]

like a circle for shotgun

yeah they should really add that because crosshair straight up lie for shotguns

[valid linden]

• another for crossbow would be nice since they also lie

@wanton imp I've got an alternative to #game-ideas message : Add a mechanic to put the hive-jar on a door, so that ppl can suffer by opening a door

[wanton imp]

like on top of the door?

[valid linden]

yep

Like a prank with a water bucket

[wanton imp]

it makes sense realistically but i think it would be a bit strong considering you can take 4 hivebombs then trap most of the important doors in the compound.

also would be hard to tell if a door is trapped unless you could hear the buzzing.

which i assume you will be able to.

[valid linden]

yep

• nothing stops you from making a door a bit more open

to make it more obvious

[wanton imp]

welp i think thats enough brainstorming for today. well for me atleast.

cheers

[reef violet]

I think it’s kinda silly that people are complaining about the event’s length. It feels like people to me are saying “take the new content I want added to the game away from me crytek 😭”. I will say that if they are going to keep events long and feeling more like seasons, which I don’t dislike, they should look at introducing balance patch’s instead of just letting the new perks and guns ride out the whole event.

[unborn dagger]

Bad logic, some people like myself dont want events to be long due to pact traits and there not being enough content to justify it being that long and it introduces burn out for other players

[radiant river]

So to solve burn out they should remove content

[unborn dagger]

If they're going to get us to grind these trash bp events and not introduce much content yeah they should.

They have no need of overstaying their welcome.

[radiant river]

The event pacts make the game more interesting

[reef violet]

So your problem is with the structure of the battle pass not with the event itself?

[radiant river]

I'd rather have them than not

Unless one is just ruining the game

But they should just balance it then

[unborn dagger]

I mentioned pact traits as well and since those are overtuned. I dont want to constantly deal with pact traits. Sometimes I just want to play regular hunt without them.

If they could introduce regular hunt and event hunt then win win scenario

[hot vigil]

Lmao, just wrote a feedback about not being excited that the next event has already been teased and come in here to see that is what people is talking about.

[reef violet]

Hmmm. Well I guess I can address half of that by restating what I said in my original post. Which is that they should balance the traits during the “season” instead of leaving them as-released

[unborn dagger]

Yep, I just want a break from events lol

[reef violet]

Be sure I agree that they overtune some of the traits while leaving others weak. Which man make it feel like you have to play a certain way, which I understand can lead to burn out

[hot vigil]

Basically the issue with event is that they need to be bombastic and meta-breaking/changing to justify being an event.
Downside is that normal Hunt doesn't exist.

[reef violet]

I mean doesn’t every game that has a season based model typically make relatively large changes to the meta? I feel like it is not a solution to a burnout issue is to keep the game the same for long periods of time.

[hot vigil]

No.

I'm currently playing darktide.

Nothing like that

Sure a lot of live service games does it, but it doesn't make it good. It is junk food for the players.

I want to play Hunt, not bullshit, poorly tested, rushed meta of the quarter season.

Events should be every 6th month or so.
With questlines inbetween.
So, 1.5-2 months of event. 1 month of downtime, 2 months of questline, 1 month of downtime before next event starts.

[unborn dagger]

I just personally do not like how it casualizes hunt. They keep introducing restoration effects, banishment like trait, or practically nullifying elements like blazeborne

If these pact traits are to keep coming back they need to have some big form of trade off

[reef violet]

I agree that the infernal pledge was way to sting and overturned giving immediate and huge benefit of picking it while in raid. Meanwhile the demented pledge felt very unrewarding to get in raid, so if you extracted with a hunter that was pledged demented you probably had all off the points you need to get the normal traits you would want anyway marking the extra traits you get off of clues pretty much worthless.

[hot vigil]

That and also, you cannot gauge is something is OP or problematic with such pipeline flow.
I can't wait for people to complain about dumdum Cenny now bloodless+ ain't a thing.

[trail carbon]

They already are

[unborn dagger]

Oh yeah demented was practically worthless

[hot vigil]

An event adds so many new traits/weapons/items all at once that we/devs cannot gauge if something is gonna be an issue or not.

[craggy jackal]

I enjoyed Demented for prestiging or for restoring team health after a hard won fight and death pact for solo sniping, and well infernal is ideal in compound fights

[trail carbon]

They probably make more money off of the event system than just releasing stuff normally.

To be fair, they didn't bring death cheat back

[unborn dagger]

That's what I was thinking

[craggy jackal]

The event makes it seem exclusive

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I hate FOMO game design

[unborn dagger]

Fomo imo just seems like the devs have no faith in their event keeping players engaged

[hot vigil]

Short term maybe, but long term it might be damaging. We are already seeing a bloat of weapons getting custom ammo, they shouldn't have gotten.

[craggy jackal]

Well to be fair… they need to make money, and it’s not like the gameplay is lacking. I really like hunt, even if infernal was strong for too long, and should have been adjusted 2-4 weeks into event.

[trail carbon]

Well, marketing execs only care about short term anyways

[craggy jackal]

That I feel is true, pax and new army feel pretty bad now :/

[hot vigil]

"Need to make money" implies that all this is just to keep the game going + all the money earned is going back into Hunt and not Crysis 4

[craggy jackal]

Well they are engine upgrading…

[hot vigil]

I project we gonna see a mass burnout if they gonna push events at this rate.

[trail carbon]

Wait, they already teased the next event

[craggy jackal]

I think it would be better if events were shorter

Or like something where only affected wildcard???

[reef violet]

I disagree with the assessment that the events are FOMO game design. I think it was made worse by limiting the event map to the weekends were players couldn’t play the actual content. But other than that it was just cosmetics you might miss, which can suck I agree. But it’s not like they are removing actually game content that is only out for so long besides the pact traits for a specific event

Which people are contending was too long

[hot vigil]

Not really engine upgrading as build upgrading.
Which is nice ofc, but it is an investment done to prolong the live service.
Again, I wouldn't mind Hunt having one last big patch with a new map and a new boss and then going into maintance mode.

[craggy jackal]

The cosmetics are what cost money and provide the fomo

[trail carbon]

Well yeah, hunts paid content has always been cosmetic. Except that there are skins like headsman

But that's still fomo

I don't understand (outside of it making more money) why they need to disallow you from getting event skins after the event is over

[native lodge]

cosmetics though, if you miss it you miss it who cares

[craggy jackal]

Yeah that’s fair… it’s hard for it to increase content and such without muddying the gameplay

[trail carbon]

It's restrictions for the sake of it, because it makes the skins feel exclusive, therefore they are bought

[hot vigil]

Short event means more punishing for unfortunate people.
That said, battlepasses just shouldn't expire. So if you play the newest battlepass during the 1 month event you get a boost, after that it is still active, but you get points at a reduced rate (bc there ain't event totems and what not).

[trail carbon]

I mean, some people do care about cosmetics, I don't personally, but the point stands

[native lodge]

its game, as far as I am concerned fomo for a game is load of hogwash

[trail carbon]

Huh?

[hot vigil]

Indeed, like any artwork, you can infact over do it. I felt Hunt was great 2 years ago, not perfect ofc, but every weapon had its own role and niche to serve, but that cannot be said anymore. Things blend more together now and Pax is just dead.

[trail carbon]

If you want a cosmetic that's at the end of the battle pass, that's fomo.

[native lodge]

it might be fomo I guess

[craggy jackal]

Some people see that the “content” for the game is exclusive to the event it is in so they buy it, just because you do not experience this feeling does not mean that other people do not

[native lodge]

I still don't care

[native lodge]

yeah but thats a them issue, its a game

[craggy jackal]

Personally I don’t really care

I buy a thing if I want that thing not because of its exclusivity

[unborn dagger]

Thats what I thought questlines were going to be from the billy questline and then crytek added a time limit

[trail carbon]

It's still exploitative

[native lodge]

your being exploited by basic marketing tactics?

[craggy jackal]

Yeah but at the and of the day there is a lot of work put into the event out side of the gameplay, skin and lore wise

[hot vigil]

Eyup, but a lot of people dislike the questline system, so it is just dropped it seems.

[craggy jackal]

So it’s not like we are receiving an event without a lot of content being dropped

[trail carbon]

Just because I'm not personally being exploited by that tactic, doesn't change the fact that some people are

[craggy jackal]

But I do wish that the gameplay during event was not so different from regular hunt

[unborn dagger]

The questlines sounded interesting but then you find out it's just another trash challenge system

[native lodge]

being exploited implies you have no control over the outcome

[craggy jackal]

No bleeding burning hurt the game toward the latter half of event

[hot vigil]

Just bc it is basic doesn't undermine its exploitive nature. You don't tell people that steps on a landmine that they just fell into a basic war crime lmao

[native lodge]

but you do

[native lodge]

not really the same thing though is it

[unborn dagger]

I was genuinely expecting questlines to be something similar to cod warzones where you need to find notes, or some item and extract with it. That would have been far better

[native lodge]

I could see the argument of disliking a certain practice

[trail carbon]

There are a lot of people who have a problem, and feel the need to buy it. Is it bad of them to think that way? Yes, and they should probably fix that mentality. However, I still feel it is wrong to exploit those people

[hot vigil]

Ofc not, but the point is that just because it is basic or obvious doesn't make it less wrong or harmful.
FOMO branding is proven to work. Ofc not all the time or on everyone, but the constant bombardment makes a person crave to it.

[trail carbon]

It also feels extra shifty because hunt is a paid game.

[native lodge]

plenty of marketing works on people, still their choice at the end of the day

[hot vigil]

Then you don't understand advertisement lmao

It is a whole multilayered shitty empire of lies

[native lodge]

I understand what it is perfectly well

[hot vigil]

You've fallen for it too

[native lodge]

because not all marketing is evil

[humble quest]

To some degree it's just bad business not to have them as incentive. Every event, two weeks in you have people who paid or blasted through it who just don't feel any reason to play. People right now taking breaks because the game without event lacks incentive

[trail carbon]

Yes, but some people have the need to buy stuff they're afraid they'll miss out on. They shouldn't, but they do. Think about how smart the average person is. Then realize that half of the population is dumber than that. Is it ok to exploit people that can't control the desire to buy this kind of stuff?

[trail carbon]

Not all is evil, but a lot of it is. That's because you make a lot more money the more evil you are.

[humble quest]

Could they do it better, sure. Can they go without it and thrive? Almost certainly not

[trail carbon]

I think there's better ways of making money than fomo events over and over

[native lodge]

oh I think the sheer amount of events and content they are pushing is degrading quality, hence why I ignored this event entirely

[hot vigil]

Okay tldr people who claims that ads doesn't affect them or affected. It is backed up by studies.

[reef violet]

True

[native lodge]

I mean I have seen plenty of ads, and said myself "hey actually I do want that", and buy it then use it.... for exactly what I need/wanted for

so yeah ads to work on me not saying it doesn't

[humble quest]

Unfortunately this is the state of affairs after being shown for 25+ years that people will just pay for anything they're shown

[trail carbon]

Ads are literally engineered to make you want the product. These people (not just hunt marketing) have done so much psychological study to figure out how to get your money.

[hot vigil]

"This phenomenon of the Third Person Effect highlights an interesting psychological phenomenon: we tend to overestimate our own free will and resistance to influence, and let down our defenses as a result. In other words, the more you ignore a message, or believe that someone would have to be an idiot to buy into that, the more the message is probably influencing you."

[native lodge]

yep and some people do fall for it

[native lodge]

sounds like something that would effect someone with more money to waste than me

[hot vigil]

It is just to underline that ads affect you more than you think.

[trail carbon]

People go into debt for a $70,000 lifted Ford F-150 turbo super duty that they will use as their daily driver for the next year until the new one comes out.

[native lodge]

I will say this again plenty of ads have worked on me

[native lodge]

and that would be a bad decsion on their part, but at the end of they day they choose to walk in and sign the paperwork, that was their choice

trust me I have met those people

[trail carbon]

I mean, some of these people believe that just how it works. My sister-in-law got a ridiculous loan for a car she didn't need because that's what her parents did, and that's what the ads were saying to do too.

She isn't stupid

She just didn't know any better because she grew up thinking that was the best way to do things.

Like, this whole hunt fomo debacle is very surface level honestly.

But it still sucks, because it's a symptom of a much larger issue. However, I still believe that crytek should do right by us and make a system that isn't exploitative. Hell, back when I respected crytek for putting a lot of care into hunt, I bought even dlc they made. I haven't spent a dome on hunt since all of this garbage started though.

[native lodge]

well inexperience will get us all in one way another

though thats just true of life in general and there is no way around it

[trail carbon]

I'm saying that's its not right for exploitative tactics that prey on inexperience, poor decision making skills, and also children (not really applicable to hunt but yknow)

[native lodge]

but when it comes to exclusive pixels in a game, I am just not convinced your hand is beign forced into buying anything

[trail carbon]

Its not forced, unless you want it. If you have a weak will, then you will buy it.

That's what it was designed to exploit

[native lodge]

I'm sorry but I just don't see that as being exploited

[trail carbon]

It's like advanced peer pressure

[native lodge]

peer presure would actually be worse

[trail carbon]

Is peer pressure exploitative in your opinion

[native lodge]

it certianly can be

[trail carbon]

It's advanced peer pressure because the people being pressured usually don't even realize it

[native lodge]

theres nothing advanced about it

there is no peers, its you and a video game

[trail carbon]

It's literally advanced social engineering

[native lodge]

no its not