#feedback-discussion

1 messages · Page 104 of 1

stark fulcrum
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Why

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Nagant has one, spitfire may as well be

hardy coral
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Because the spitfire already exists.

late quartz
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The pax can totally get variants, but those variants should fill some sort of unique niche

stark fulcrum
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So what@hardy coral

late quartz
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So, Grogs suggestion of a 1 slot scoped weapon make sense under this framework

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It's just a bad idea for other reasons HuntKappa

stark fulcrum
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Bc spitfire exists we can never have another double?

hardy coral
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Cus it'd end up the same or a very similar gun.

stark fulcrum
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Thats pretty dense

late quartz
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Other double action weapons should have some clear reason to be picked over/instead of the spitfire

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That's the point

stark fulcrum
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Again mad for no reason and I resent that remark

late quartz
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That's why I asked "what mechanically is the appeal of a double action pax" because I'm curious and not just saying "no that's lame"

stark fulcrum
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Idk what you're going on about i was having a discussion with the other guy lol

late quartz
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._.

stark fulcrum
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Well one at a time lol

late quartz
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Firstly, you and I were talking before Deadly came in, so lol

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Secondly we're making... roughly the same exact point

stark fulcrum
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Well to that id just say why can't there be another double? I mean by your logic more than half the weapons shouldn't exist bc we already have a similar one

late quartz
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Yes that's true

stark fulcrum
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This is all moot in my mind tbh bc I just want buntline mainly

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That'd be truly unique

late quartz
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Tons of guns that are added makae the game worse because they have no real distinct niche and only vary in small, largely insignificant ways

burnt pebble
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Like the 15 long ammo bolt action guns

stark fulcrum
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Long ammo is done to death

late quartz
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The buntline was a good suggestion before the centennial shorty was added. The 2 slot medium ammo niche was totally empty, and so it would've been a wholly unique addition

stark fulcrum
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Nothing exciting there

late quartz
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Now with the shorty it's hard to see what a buntline would do well

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Especially now that the biggest draw of the pax, dumdum ammo, is available on the centennial

stark fulcrum
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Compact had a ton as well. Lately its been medium but only like a couple

burnt pebble
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It would not need perks for fire rate

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And it would look neat

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Which is a plus for me

late quartz
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I mean yeah "looking neat" seems to be 95% of the appeal lul

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Which I don't disagree, it would be neat

stark fulcrum
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@late quartz yeah thats what bummed me out was when they just gave all of what made pax unique away to other weapons. I think the buntline could be under the uppercut with maybe higher velo idk

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Something diff

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Id be fine with Scott if not for those rectangle sights

late quartz
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Crytek is just really bad at keeping weapons distinct. Dumdum was one of the most potent balancing tools in medium ammo weapons and now it's just on everything LOL

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The springfield and pax had something unique to draw you towards them

burnt pebble
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You could keep it a one slot but give it longer range before fall off. Maybe it starts at 30 M

late quartz
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Now you have the spitfire and centennial getting them in one patch, totally deminishes those other weapons' appeal

stark fulcrum
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It's hard to justify a Springfield now

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Even with new ammo

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At the point I put high velo on a single shot medium ammo rifle ill just buy a long ammo rifle lol

burnt pebble
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Yeah but the Springfield is like $2 and a bubble gum wrapper

late quartz
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Or just run the centennial, get your 600mv and keep your dumdum

stark fulcrum
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Exactly cent has it all

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Cent dum dum makes it really good imo

burnt pebble
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Bro why did I get down vote? Lol

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Am I wrong?

late quartz
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Well you're not wrong but lol economy

stark fulcrum
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Ppl hate the quick draw idea

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Maybe thats why

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Idk

late quartz
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Money isn't a good reason to bring one gun over another for most players

burnt pebble
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No on the $2 in a bubble gum wrapper thing

stark fulcrum
burnt pebble
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I mean I have 100,000 hunt dollars but like it's easier for me to make money and not lose it if my gun cost less

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If I only run expensive stuff. I'll end up losing money

late quartz
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Presumably any money you spend on a better loadout will improve your chances of winning and thus earning money

burnt pebble
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Unless I'm sweating

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For the most part, my win rate goes up by like 2% with better weapons

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It's not noticeable

hardy coral
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So you're saying the weapons are balanced despite their cost

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They aren't, they should be.

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Cyclone is bullshit "but it's like x dollars so who cares!!!"

burnt pebble
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I think cheap weapons should be worth their cost and as weapons get better. They should get exponentially more expensive

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I feel like all weapons prices could be multiplied by like three times

late quartz
# burnt pebble For the most part, my win rate goes up by like 2% with better weapons

I mean tbh I'd say that's a skill issue?
If you can't leverage the advantages afforded by stronger tools, sure, they're not worth using.

I find it hard to believe you'd only see a 2% win rate improvement if you had a dolch every single match.
Granted, it might not even out, you have to achieve roughly a 50% win rate to keep that up, and if you're falling more into the 20~30%WR range I doubt it's gonna be enough to put you to 50, but it'll almost certainly be a noticeable difference

burnt pebble
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And then go from there

late quartz
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Mind you, me saying "skill issue" isn't accusing you of being dogshit or anything like that, just that there are pretty clear and obvious advantage to the expensive weapons that should be transelatable to an increase in success

burnt pebble
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Idk a pax Romero can beat a crown uppercut

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I mostly see win rate improvements from perks

late quartz
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I agree that many of the mid-tier weapons are "good enough", you're not at a major disadvantage in most fights if you have a centennial or vetterli vs a mosin, but players who know how to leverage and press the advantages of the stronger tools will be able to consistently create those edge cases that make other players feel powerless

burnt pebble
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And well thought out loadouts like two guns that complement each other

late quartz
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You need to play much cleaner than they do

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Cause once you fire your funny romero if they're not dead... they can just steamroll you

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Money doesn't buy you the ability to kill, as people just love to point out all the guns in this game shoot bullests and kill people

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Money buys you the ability to fuck up and still win, and if you're good it buys you the ability to create situations that disempower the opposing players

burnt pebble
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Yea but I feel like things are priced fairly. They just need to like multiply the cost of everything

stark fulcrum
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Prices have been really weird lately

burnt pebble
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You should lose money for using expensive weapons unless you do exceedingly well

stark fulcrum
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Like drilling. Not worth 550

burnt pebble
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That's my take

stark fulcrum
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Nowhere near 550

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Especially if you add dum dum and slugs

burnt pebble
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Drilling feels pretty good where it's at for me

stark fulcrum
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Then it becomes a question of should I have just bought a crown

burnt pebble
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It's two tap is insane

stark fulcrum
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Lol

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Or mosin

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Or lebel

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I'm not saying drilling is bad

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Just not worth 550

burnt pebble
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I think it costing around a mosin is fair

late quartz
burnt pebble
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It's a full-size shotgun and one of the fastest two taps in the game

burnt pebble
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Like at all really

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I don't even like using the dolch I just sort of Collect them after I kill people with them

late quartz
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I don't like using the dolch because it feels like cheating

stark fulcrum
late quartz
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It's really absurdly easy to use and it lets me circumvent hunt's unique core gameplay

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Which like... why? I'd play a different game if i hated hunt's gunplay that much LOL

stark fulcrum
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Then I'd agree less spam, but if we're going spam pax double action lmao

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But yes, I wish we could get rid of many weapons and tools and consumables

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Yeah dolch p is dumb

late quartz
stark fulcrum
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I would like to see a competitor to uppercut in a medium ammo pistol

late quartz
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I really do think if you're poor in hunt showdown, you had to work to get there LOL

stark fulcrum
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Thats true

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I'm average af and I have 220k

late quartz
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You should never be in a situation where you have to take a springfield over a centennial

stark fulcrum
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Thats my take on it as well lol

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Like why am i bringing a spring?

late quartz
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And the benefits of bringing a centennial over a springfield are so pronounced and so universal that, if you're considering downgrading

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You should just skip out on your secondary weapon or bring cheaper consumes

stark fulcrum
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Most people don't really get it that to compete with decent players you need a decent loadout. People see hornet or ratcha wiping with a spring and think that's normal

late quartz
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In order to compete with decent players you need to be more than decent

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Again worse crap doesn't mean you're going ot lose, it means you have to work a lot harder to win

hardy coral
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It's also in reverse somewhat, the higher tier guns are generally easier to use than the lower tier ones.

late quartz
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It's doable but yeah, if you're playing in the right skill bracket you're gonna struggle against similarly rated players

stark fulcrum
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Theres a minimum ill take with me. If I'm playing seriously that is

hardy coral
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Basically every single change this event balance or additions wise was just a step in the entirely wrong direction and so I can't trust them to push the game in the direction I, and I feel the more serious players, want.

stark fulcrum
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And base nagant or Springfield isn't involved lol

late quartz
hardy coral
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Bulwark change was a microcosm of it all.

stark fulcrum
hardy coral
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You nerf flashes via an already busted perk by making it halve the timer and not give a hitmarker, replicating the bug they continually stamped out before.

hardy coral
stark fulcrum
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Once they released the cyclone I gave up on old school hunt values

hardy coral
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A 1 slot pistol with a scope would be nice, a 3 slot pax carbine with a higher firerate than cent but a nasty reload and relatively poor velocity and even damage would be good.

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Instead we get a semi-auto rifle.

stark fulcrum
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Pax carbine and a buntline and ill die happy

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I'll exclude double action if they promise to stop releasing spam

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Lol

late quartz
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There was definitely some stuff to be happy about

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But they all feel much smaller overall. Easier to focus on the bad stuff cause it's all adding on to existing issues

stark fulcrum
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Well the new pact stuff making solos supermen, cyclone being the opposite of what we're asking for etc

late quartz
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Flash bombs needed a nerf for sure but it was one of the only tools enabling aggression in a game that's plagued by passivity and gridlock

stark fulcrum
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Kinda rubbed some us wrong

hardy coral
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Drilling was a good quick firing gun then they just add the Cyclone lul.

late quartz
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The pact stuff isn't perfect but it's temporary so I can't be mad about it

hardy coral
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Well for 2 months kinda stretches temporary when the downtimes between events seem to be getting shorter.

late quartz
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Ultimately this isn't a serious competitive game and I think some degree of temporary imbalance is fine

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The issue i have is when things show no sign of being fixed and may simply persist forever

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I think pacts are the only thing that makes events worth interacting with, they bring novel interesting gameplay changes that allow for a burst of theory crafting and new playstyles

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Plus they contribute to data collection so the devs can play with new ideas and refine them into permanent additions like shadow

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Blazeborn seems unbalanced on solos but what's ACTUALLY unbalanced is necro which is here forever

hardy coral
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All of the restoration event traits are good but the others are meh.

radiant river
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Being able to Regen bars without banish is super nice

late quartz
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I really like witness, it's probably the best "see XYZ in dark sight" trait

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Blazeborn needs to be tweaked but allowing players to heal off of fire is a very good idea that creates a lot of opportunity for teamplay and support playstyles

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Obviously it shouldn't prevent ignitions while dead

radiant river
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Although cyclone is fundamentally kind of a dumb weapon to be in the game I rarely run into it.

late quartz
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Well, most players don't have it unlocked LOL

radiant river
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It's way less frustrating to fight than an explosive bow or crossbow.

late quartz
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It's being held hostage behind event progress

radiant river
hardy coral
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Frag bow is bad and the explosive crossbow is neutralised by bulwark.

late quartz
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This is a guess on my part but I would bet that many players who are good at the game arent going to buy the premium battle pass because they'll play enough to unlock it all anyway

radiant river
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There's definitely a range where it's super good. But long ammo is so insane at any range and we already have spam guns like officer carbine or dolch for close/midrange. It might be dumb buts it's not crazy op

late quartz
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Yeah I think that's spot on. It's not UNIQUELY broken, it's just another thing on a pile of broken guns that make the game worse LOL

radiant river
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Yep

hardy coral
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Nagant Carbine was overbuffed and not nerfed too much so they are close-ish in power between like 0-40 metres but Cyclone has FMJ.

radiant river
late quartz
hardy coral
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They'll give it poison and buff antidote shots.

rotund obsidian
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@sour viper #game-ideas message you can currently check stuff you don't have, you just need to use the searchbar and type "!unlocked". a little odd but the functionality is there, albeit hidden

unborn dagger
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Especially for more than 2 months

late quartz
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I mean it is literally temporary lol blazeborn will be removed from the game at a fixed time schedule

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Might come back later but likely with major balance changes

rotund obsidian
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blazeborne seems fine for a pact trait tbh, bloodless bonus and rampage are the strong parts

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yeah not being ignited while downed is strong but its not nearly foolproof. one firebomb + any lingering damage or a lantern and it's GG for solos

late quartz
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Its a lot of resource investment to confirm one kill

next yarrow
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Bloodless bonus is strong but it isn't that much stronger than normal bloodless.
You can stop light bleed very quickly

late quartz
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Not uncounterable but very frustrating

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Too many hoops just so you don't get shot in the ass by a guy you already beat

rotund obsidian
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I don't think it's unreasonable to have to commit gear in order to bypass the whole "watching them burn" scenario

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and I like the added usefulness of firebombs, they always seemed kinda mediocre before

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I used to take hellfires before selfrez was added but being able to blast a solo back down into flames is nice

late quartz
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Its not unreasonable inherently but the amount resources required and the opportunity cost involved is too great

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A dedicated anti Necro item would be a reasonable solution, requiring both fire AND poison or barbed wire feels bad

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I've suggested a tool that allows you to stake a hunter through the heart to prevent necro

wanton sable
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the "event-effects" of those traits should be tied to one of the event-traits

rotund obsidian
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yeah true, pre-pledged hunters with trait bonuses are not cool

wanton sable
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everybody talking about not using fire during the event, but you at least have to get a pledgemark and go to a supply to get that

silent ocean
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Feedback/Suggestion: More custom loadout slots please :)

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Sorry for off-topic just throwing it out there

vital fractal
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Yeah, the event traits this time around are way too powerful as inferno-

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Guess they realized inferno sucked last time iirc, so they overdid it this time

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The only trait that should stay is death witness from this event

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Shadow shouldn’t be here at all

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The next set of event traits shouldn’t affect pvp, I’d like to see them affect other aspects of the game

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Also, all these restoration type traits aren’t appreciated

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Before you had to banish boss to get bars back, and that was fair

Now you just gotta look at something, wait and loot, or just kill someone to get em back

late quartz
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Why shouldn't they affect PvP ._.

vital fractal
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Because, it’s clear when an event trait affects pvp in a meta way- it’s over used

late quartz
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That doesn't sound like an inherent issue as much as a balancing one

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Even if it's "overused", that may not be inherently bad as long as the gameplay it creates is still engaging and interesting

vital fractal
late quartz
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That's all traits

vital fractal
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No one likes a status or bullet sponge, that’s not interesting

vital fractal
late quartz
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Yeah idk I think I may just not follow you here

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Traits are straight upgrades to player strength, they don't really have downsides

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Whether those upgrades are a problem or not is gonna be pretty heavily tied to the actual dynamics around them

vital fractal
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Yes but it’s clear these event traits in particular are quite more powerful than base game traits

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They don’t change how one plays beyond instantly nullifying many loadouts, reducing diversity

late quartz
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Sure I think this update is a data collection venture to find new ways to restore health chunks

late quartz
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Blazeborn and witness are both great contenders for permanent additions, but both need balance changes to make them more fair

vital fractal
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Hell no

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Blazeborn being permanent would be by far the most stupid thing Crytek has done

late quartz
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Mmm, unless they make balance changes so it's more fair :P

vital fractal
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Nullifying a status effect should not at all be a thing, nonetheless HEAL from it

late quartz
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Obviously preventing ignitions while downed is a big issue

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Healing from fire, eh, I think it's perfectly fine.

vital fractal
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Poison gets away with it sadly, and they should rework it, but blazeborn is too strong

late quartz
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Too strong =/= conceptually unworkable

vital fractal
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We have what blaze born should be

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It’s called salveskin

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The fact that blazeborn essentially nullifies it in game RIGHT NOW proves it

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Salveskin is just a balanced blazeborn

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Blazeborn is just salveskin on prototype vit shots lmao

late quartz
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Healing from fire is, in my opinion, a very valid and interesting gameplay alteration.
It needs balancing tweaks, and most importantly it needs readability changes (you should be able to tell if a player will be immune to fire, or if a player is in fire around you via sound and audio cues) but it's not interchangeable with salveskin

vital fractal
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It’s absolutely interchangeable as is now

And so now let’s say they rebalance blazeborn, what would it do?

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Go ahead, shoot your idea in- what would it do?

late quartz
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Don't prevent ignition on downed players
Don't reduce the rate at which players char while down, obviously this is something salveskin should be better at
Improve readability
I'd probably play around with increasing the cost/risk of using it by changing the rate at which you char

Could also play with lasting fire vs initial ignition, so fire on the floor doesn't heal you very quickly at all, but the initial burst from a firebomb, firebeetle, firebolt, or lantern is a more significant burst

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Giving players opportunity for team play and support roles is a very interesting alteration to hunt. Right now your ability to affect your teammates is rather limited. Blazeborn gives players opportunities to benefit teammates directly instead of indirectly with things like cover, pressure, callouts etc.

vital fractal
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Salveskin already changes the rate of at which you char

So fire now heals you while you char?

I mean if it’s too little than all people will use it for is to regain a bar, if it’s too much- then it nullifies fire danger

Again, salveskin solves this issue as it’s very well balanced already

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I like how that works in theory and on paper

late quartz
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So fire now heals you while you char?
I mean yeah that's how it works currently. That's what blazeborn does.

Salveskin already changes the rate of at which you char
Yeah? I'm blazeborn currently makes it so you char in fire but very slowly. I'm suggesting you increase that rate to make it a bigger risk vs reward dynamic

vital fractal
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Support is a nice idea for a role in game but, blazeborn healing from fire is not the way to do it

If they wanted they could just make heal clouds with bolts…

late quartz
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I feel like you just kinda misunderstood my suggesting ngl :x

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In short: Increase the risk of using blazeborn, make it more distinct from salveskin by keeping their effects distinct, increase players ability to make informed choices around other players with blazeborn

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I don't think blazeborn and salveskin are the same trait just because they both interact with fire

vital fractal
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We aren’t on the same page it seems

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Overall

late quartz
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We're not clearly lol

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Salveskin should reduce char
Blazeborn should reduce damage

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blazeborn should not reduce char

vital fractal
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Salveskin does both though…?

late quartz
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So salveskin can do both, that's not a problem

vital fractal
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Unless you want to split salveskin into salveskin and blaze…

late quartz
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If you have both, you're not taking any damage from fire anyway so the damage reduction from salveskin doesn't really matter

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The problem you're trying to pose is some sort of redundancy or overlap

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I don't think that overlap is really much of an issue right now, and it would be fairly easy to further divide the two with only changes to blazeborn

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People who take salveskin primarily do so to reduce the rate at which they burn while down. Blazeborn shouldn't fill that niche at all and should be an opportunity to trade max HP for current HP while alive

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It should have no effect while down, and it's cost while in use should be greater than it currently is

vital fractal
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I get what you’re saying,

At least what I’m hearing is you want blazeborn to be a trade health cap for immediate hp- but my issue with that is, I don’t think ANY status effect should be an opportunity for players to garner health

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If we wanted health to be something a player can dish out to teammates, I would rather there be items specifically for that rather than allowing a hellfire bomb to heal a teammate

I’d rather a “health” cloud of sorts or similar, that was fire is still always a danger since it is one of the three status effects in the game-

late quartz
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I don't necessarily think that's a terrible concern, but the concern is primarily one of game sense and readability rather than one of absolute power.

The problem is that it's subversive, you can't really know if throwing a firebomb at somebody will work or not, you can't know if a puddle of oil will deter a player or not.
This is why I think it needs to be more clear when a player has these traits, that way you can make informed choices about it.

I don't think being immune to fire is overpowered, I think it's frustrating because you can't play around it without knowledge

vital fractal
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Personally I disagree, but ok

late quartz
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Same problem exists for necro. Not being able to tell properly if a solo can get back up leads to a lot of readability issues

vital fractal
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I don’t think necro is as big of an issue if you have played the game long enough, you’re always supposed to control bodies anyways- if you fail to, you get punished

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Be it via necro or teammate picking them up

late quartz
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Solo players being able to stand up autonomously has a unique set of readability issues versus needing a teammate in a given range. Controling bodies is certainly a part of the game, but the dynamics around it change between solos and teams

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And generally people find controlling the bodies of solos to be a more laborious and frustrating task

vital fractal
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See the thing is though, if you control the body anyways- solo or not, you won’t face the consequence of getting shot back

late quartz
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Yeah, that's the issue

vital fractal
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And finding bodies of solos isn’t that hard unless you are 100m away, in which case if it was a squad they’d get picked up anyways

late quartz
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Controling the bodies of solos is a chore, controling the bodies of teams creates interesting dynamic fights

vital fractal
late quartz
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"Pressure the teammate" prevents a necro res, it creates proactive incentives and can often encourage more fighting

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Babysitting a player who can just press a button to stand up takes a fair bit of time, or a lot of resources, and isn't very interesting for either side of the encounter

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Is it OVERPOWERED? Maybe not, but it absolutely detracts from the game

vital fractal
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I get what you’re saying, in that in squads you’ll still be actively fighting someone after you kill them as with a solo you’re just standing there

But like at the same time you also have a choice to use the world items to confirm a kill or just leave and see how it’ll go

It is very easy to deal with the solo, even if you feel it’s tedious

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Now with the event, no

But we are talking base game hunt here

late quartz
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Resilience makes bear traps ineffective

vital fractal
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Yes but they invested into addressing that

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So it’s fair

late quartz
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:P

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Do you actually think that excuses problems

vital fractal
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You can either invest in anti revive mechanics, or deal with a lack of a proper loadout

late quartz
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Do you think that makes blazeborn fair?

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Probably not lul

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Investment doesn't make things interesting gameplay

vital fractal
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Yes because it is niche

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Blazeborn isn’t

vital fractal
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Fair =/= interesting

late quartz
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Yeah this isn't an issue of coutnerability or fairness it's about whether or not it makes the game engaging

vital fractal
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As compared to blazeborn which isn’t either

Necro simply isn’t an issue, it’s just an annoyance to certain people

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But

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It’s fair, which I think makes it a non problem

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Same with resilience

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It’s also counterable without an investment other than time, so- you either load up properly or you sit there and control the body

late quartz
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Nobody wants to just walk away from the body of a player they've already beaten. Risking a player killing you later because you can't be bothered to confirm they go back to the lobby isn't worth risking.
Giving up advantages isn't something players like to do. If you have an advantage, throwing it away feels bad and typically people will hold onto it even if it creates a worse experience. Players will optimize the fun out of games if allowed.

Letting solo players essentially harass the lobby after they already lose unless their killers spend 3~5 minutes messing with their corpse makes the game worse. It's not an IMPOSSIBLE task but it's one that detracts from the rest of the game. It's not fun for the solo player either, they too are held hostage during the encounter where they have to sit around trying to get back up while being camped.

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Saying "you can counter it" misses the entire point. Countering it takes too much time, investment, and takes you out of the match for a while.

vital fractal
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It really doesn’t, you’re acting like every solo has antidote, bloodless, resilience and 5 bars

late quartz
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If there were a single item you could brink to stake a downed hunter through the heart to prevent necro revives, that's be fair enough.
One tool slot, requires you to do an animation on a corpse, boom.
A set amount of invested resources, no 3~5 minute banishing ritual.

vital fractal
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Most situations? Necro is dealt with one lamp and one trap

late quartz
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If you can afford necro you can afford resiliance lol it's not gonna be one lamp and one bear trap

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You can't walk away from that

vital fractal
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And if a player decides to make his loadout revolve completely around the idea of getting up after losing a fight, that’s fine

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Because that’s all they’re geared up to do

late quartz
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I just think that's a really wild way to view the game lol

Just becauase a player invests in something doesn't make it good for the game

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If I could spend 30 trait points to serpent a bounty token from across the map that would still be cringe

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Just cause I spent something to do it doesn't mean it isn't awful

vital fractal
#

Yeah, but that’s inherently broken- necro isn’t

#

That’s the part that’s missing

late quartz
#

It's not inherently broken

vital fractal
#

Which is why I don’t like blazeborn

late quartz
#

I geared up to do it

#

So it's fair

#

Just stand on the boss when it banishes and grab immediately

#

You can counter it by just being quick

vital fractal
#

That’s not at all what my message was but if I have to spell it out a b c then what’s the point?

late quartz
#

You can't serpent it from 1000 meters away unless I leave a bounty on the floor for 10+ seconds, so if I choose not to counter it and you chose to invest in this strategy what's the issue?

vital fractal
#

Ok let me spell my position out

late quartz
#

I mean, please do, but what I'm reading is that if something is counterable and requires meaningful investment it can't be that big of a problem

hardy coral
#

Bulwark requires you to spend 28 dollars more for a frag bomb HuntSmart

vital fractal
#

  1. Hyperboles are hyperboles, and not relevant to this discussion

  2. The issue you are speaking of assumes the player is fully geared up for that exact moment where he is immune to poison and has been geared up trait wise to neglect some bleed damage with resilience

  3. You have an issue with confirming a kill because it feels like baby sitting for 2-3 minutes tops, considering it sounds like you assume no one has a lamp or firebomb, or trap within 20 m of you-

  4. If necro was in the worst case scenario like you are framing it as everytime, I’d understand but the reality is, necro isn’t a free restart- it has risk and reward that requires you to either invest a proportional amount of resources into- to capitalize, and punishes those who refuse to engage in that transaction

For your crazy idea of serpenting from 1000m, sure add it to the game if it costs enough to warrant that reward- id be down, that’d have to be something clearly ridiculous tho but it’s a ridiculous perk-

It’s not unworldly, or bad, to sit there for 1-2 minutes, maybe even less, to confirm a kill- in a game that’s supposed to be slow anyways

And you can make it even faster by having a loadout that plays to this idea, and the solo can counter what you have if they invest in it

You act like necro ruins this game because “oh no, now I have to sit and confirm my kill on what I most likely know is a solo”

And that is a part of Hunt I like, you never know when you are safe- and if you want to be safe, and know for sure- you’re going to have to go a bit beyond normal game play

But even then, it’s not intrusive

#

The only issue I have now, is with blazeborn and bloodless during the event making what you speak actually have a backing

#

But in base game, it’s not that disturbing to gameplay nor is it that hard to counter

So what’s the big deal?

#

If necro was as powerful of an “advantage” as you say it was, it would work 100% of the time

#

It doesn’t…

late quartz
#

2 - This is an event that occurs regularly enough to be frustrating.

3 - even if you have fire it changes very little. This is ASSUMING you have fire.

4 - dunno what this is about. Never claimed it was free or has no risk. It's frustrating nonetheless, and it seems like the majority of the community is on board for the subjective claim that it's frustrating and makes the game less fun

#

For your crazy idea of serpenting from 1000m, sure add it to the game if it costs enough to warrant that reward- id be down, that’d have to be something clearly ridiculous tho but it’s a ridiculous perk-
I think this is an insane bullet to bite

in a game that’s supposed to be slow anyways
The game is meant to be slow, but the slowness is meant to lead to a deep and tactical experience. Not sitting around doing nothing.

vital fractal
#

Equal ins > equal outs isn’t an insane position to take

#

If you get frustrated that you can’t just shoot and forget then

#

Idk what to tell you

#

And your entire issue with it, it being advantages and disadvantages, says it is about risk-

#

Because you risk fucking up if you don’t decide to… watch the body like you’re supposed to

late quartz
#

You act like necro ruins this game because “oh no, now I have to sit and confirm my kill on what I most likely know is a solo”
Never once have I claimed that necro "ruins the game". I said it detracts from the overall experience. If you think those two are the same I assure you, I don't believe solo necro ruins the game. I think it's a fairly minor issue that leads to a greater sense of frustration that compounds over dozens or hundreds of matches.

If necro was as powerful of an “advantage” as you say it was, it would work 100% of the time
Yeah again you're fighting straw men rn LOL. Necro is perfectly counterable, the counters just take too much time, resources, and detract from the game.
Solo necro sould be an opportunity to get back up at long range or in messy team fights. If you're 1v3 and you get domed, I think the other team should be able to invest ONE item to permanently disable you if they have full safe control over your body for a short time. I don't think that's unreasonable LOL

late quartz
#

Make the process less laborious and you're good

#

If you have full control over a dead solo the process of making them fully dead should be like 30~ seconds max

#

Not several minutes

#

Again, maybe that's through a single dedicated tool that lets you disable necro. That's fine, that's a perfectly reasonable amount of investment for a counter

#

Needing multiple tools that may or may not be countered by traits and items that you can't know if they have or not is not a good experience

#

This is why I said from the start that this is a readability issue

vital fractal
#

You do have one item to permanently disable the solo… it’s called a fire bomb, which lasts 2 minutes and will burn out anything in it- multiple times over within those two minutes, and it’s cheap

Several minutes implies it’s a ritual or something to make sure someone burns at max 125 hp lol

As for readability, again- I like the design where Hunt won’t tell you certain things and you have to ascertain it from what happens or how people play- be it whether you’re alone, whether the loadout of the person you are fighting says something, environmental clues, things that actually take brainmatter to process and understand rather than “oooo shiny light and loud noise mean man will get up”

If this issue of necro frustrates you that much, “compounded over hundreds of matches” yet the community seems pretty split evenly on both sides of the issue, then I don’t know what to tell you beyond your preferences and idea- and vice versa I guess

late quartz
#

You do have one item to permanently disable the solo… it’s called a fire bomb, which lasts 2 minutes and will burn out anything in it- multiple times over within those two minutes, and it’s cheap
omg lol

#

you're ridiculous

vital fractal
#

I’m not wrong though so

late quartz
#

You are

vital fractal
#

Ok then

late quartz
#

if I throw a firebomb on a solo and then go AFK can they get back up and shoot me

vital fractal
#

Yeah, so don’t go afk with it- they get up- and you shoot them once and they are burning you shorted the wait time significantly

#

So now what was going to take maybe a minute is now in 40 seconds ish

late quartz
#

Okay so this very obviously isn't doing the thing I laid out

vital fractal
#

👍

late quartz
#

You should not have to sit and wait for solo players to burn out

#

that's the takeaway from this

#

If i have your body and I can tbag you for free with no risk

#

I think I should probably just be able to go "necro is now turned off" and walk away

#

Because sitting around while you burn is fun for zero players. Not fun for the solo not fun for the team. It's a waste of time and slows down the match. Not in a "Hunt is a slow tactical game" way but in a "nobody is having fun because nobody is interacting" way.

#

What is the BENEFIT of necro working this way? Why is it better for the game that it takes this much effort to counter? Why would it be worse if it were quicker?

#

The situations where necro shines are ones where people can't just hop on your body for free anyway, those are the situations where you actually have a shot at standing back up.

If you die to a trio and one guy watches your corpse while his buddies go get lanterns and bear traps... you're still not standing up! It just wastes 4 peoples time.

vital fractal
#

Bro, you just don’t want necro to be a thing- I get it

But, it’s not that big of a deal to watch a body for like 1 minute (minus the attempts to get up if they try) after killing them, and using a fire bomb

If they get up and you have no fire then sometimes shit happens, adapt and deal with it

If that’s frustrating to you well, yikes

late quartz
#

Okay except I do want solo necro to be a thing and have laid out specific alterations that aren't "remove it" ._.

#

You've dodged my questions by flippantly making up a position you and I both know I don't hold lol

vital fractal
#

Anything else you want to define? Cause you clearly are defining my position for me

late quartz
#

Bro, you just don’t want necro to be a thing- I get it
I do want solo necro to be a thing

#

?

vital fractal
#

I mean this is going no where

#

So, might as well let it be- I’m getting hungry, want some steak?

late quartz
#

Why is the game better for working this way, why would it be worse if it worked the way I suggest. That's my question.
Not "why should necro be in the game", or "why don't you want it removed"

late quartz
#

None of which I have said and all of which you have accused me of arguing lol

#

You're on a dialogue tree with some other person

vital fractal
#

Literally me

IMG_8091.jpg
reef violet
#

@vital fractal What if you add blaze borne into the mix? I’m not familiar enough with the numbers would firebomb burn them out still?

late quartz
#

They don't like blazeborn and think it shouldn't be in the game in any form

#

Even if it did prevent a solo from burning out they'd just default to "I don't endorse any part of blazeborn"

reef violet
#

Personally as a relatively new player I think I agree with pyrrhic I don’t think necro needs to be removed but having to camp the body for so long isn’t fun. I even tried doing it as the solo and it get bad cause I knew they were camping me and I could never get up. If the team can control your body for say (30s) they should be able to prevent necro.

unborn dagger
#

Agreed

#

Just imo make it a burn trait.

reef violet
unborn dagger
#

Oh god I would, just make it a burn trait exclusively for solos.

#

Where as team necro can stay as is as a regular trait

vital fractal
#

You need 1 bomb and a lantern with blazeborn

reef violet
#

I think the real problem here come from the allowance of a a symmetric system. That makes things really hard to balance

vital fractal
#

It’s incredibly broken lmao

#

Blazeborn on a necro solo is not something that should be allowed

Maybe they can play with that in the next event? One trait means you can’t have another trait

#

At least for pact traits

reef violet
late quartz
#

I think it would be overall easier to make blazeborn not work on downed players at all

#

Resilience is more of an issue imo, and there are plenty of traits that work differently on solos

#

Something like 30~60 seconds of regeneration instead of getting up with a full heal could be a good adjustment

brisk timber
#

Necro a replenish trait for everyone

#

Use it 1x -> cooldown -> loot dead hunter -> ready to use again

#

Would lockdown revive spamms but also reward a successful revive/trade
Would also make team necros a bit more tactical than spammy

reef violet
#

i think i like that take

brisk timber
#

Yea that idea emerged from all this think tanking in this chat here and i think its probably one of the best solutions overall

#

In regard to infernal pact: This whole thing is broken and overtuned. From blazeborn to rampage.

#

If something stays of this event than i hope its the whole package of the Death pact
the tracking of corpses is something the community wished for years and works wonderful as a new mechanic
Also regain of burned HP bars via Vulture doesnt inject itselfe into ongoin fights like rampage - but it lets you comeback from tough fights

#

Relentless just like Rampage can go aways after the event - good riddance

late quartz
#

It's a nice vulture buff given that it's sort of a selfless trait most of the time. It can benefit you but the primary benefit is allowing both teammates to loot in trios as well

#

Taking vulture feels like more of a sacrifice than anything because it means I need to wait for my teammates to loot first to get a benefit.

Looting hunters that another team killed obviously gives you some benefit, but all together that's something of an uncommon edge case

#

I'd like to see that dynamic swapped, where players with vulture could loot before their teammates without locking them out, but the logistics behind that might be a bit messy.

unborn dagger
hot vigil
late quartz
#

The big concern there is that there's potential to benefit enemy players there. If I loot and it doesn't take away from the 2 total loot opportunities, if we're in duos or trios witha dead teammate that would mean having vulture would always be detrimental

#

Maybe that's fine, maybe that's just the cost of doing business

#

But personally would consider this a QoL change, since it doesn't change the maximum number of possible loots per party as much as the required order of those loots. To that end I don't think having potentially negative or detremental side effects is necessary for its balance

hot vigil
#

Honestly don't see why, sucha niche case anyways + it makes it more of a "stealth trait" no giving away you've been there

#

If a duo/trio all have vulture

late quartz
#

Well... it's a dead player right

#

Somebody has been there

#

The stealth element is like 12d chess mindgames shit

hot vigil
#

Damn right

#

But yeah, take that my enemy might loot a frag to kill me later over "I've looted this guy, did you loot that? There is a guy here you should also loot, can I loot that? Is that lootable now?!!!"

late quartz
#

Sure I think it's annoying how it currently is

#

But it's never detrimental

#

I'm not sure it should ever be detrimental

hot vigil
#

I mean, Hunt should have am easier overview of friendlies traits in general.

late quartz
#

Like easier to see teammate traits?

#

Or just better QoL on teamplay traits

hot vigil
#

Both.

#

Same with challenges, at least lemme see team mates challenges in the lobby.

late quartz
#

Yeah I agree

#

it seems like however they built the UI... was awful? And it's very hard to change it later on

#

They did mention a UI rework in the near future tho didn't they?

hot vigil
#

I mean, they managed to add thr challenge, quest and event banners to the menu, so I think they can manage

late quartz
#

Think about how long it took to get the weapon stats reworked for example

#

I'm not saying "they can't do it" I'm saying it seems like they have an extraordinarily hard time changing the UI

#

Which is 100% their fault and 100% something they need to address

hot vigil
#

Well, the weapon stats rework is a whole new way to classify weapons. That takes effort to figure out what you wanna convey.
But having something that just show what challenges your team-mate have is not new information.

late quartz
#

I don't think that's why it took so long ._.

#

There is a very limited number of stats about weapons I don't think this is a years long endeavor this is like one meeting with the weapon balancing crew lol

hot vigil
#

Still some design goes into that.

late quartz
#

Yeah some design goes into it but which seems more likely

#

They had the handling stat govern like 6 things for 3.5 years because they couldn't decide how they wanted to break it up

#

Or because they programmed the UI in a way that wasn't very modular and meant it needed major structural overhauls to be improved further

#

I WOULD WAGER the people at crytek aren't as much indecisive as they are working with a bad hand due to technical debt from early on in the game's programming

hot vigil
late quartz
#

Yeah I mean it's not a matter of the people at crytek being evil or bad or stupid

#

Tech debt happens, sometimes people write software in a way that makes it hard to change later

#

You're really not supposed to but small teams or time constraints mean you may not futureproof your code the first time around, and since it's a live service game you can't just take it down for 3 months to fix it all up, you have to fix the wheels on a rolling wagon so to speak.
That'll mean some things are prioritized, like new content or vital bug fixes over a UI that technically works but doesn't allow for the flexibility and scalability that you'd want

delicate chasm
#

feedback: fix the fucking sound bug!

nimble onyx
#

so in order for the bat to succeed the shotgun has been nerfed silently. GG Crytek

vocal ember
crystal plume
wanton imp
#

what

unborn dagger
#

Wut?

leaden coyote
#

Hmmm I wonder why my idea to add hoodoo to the game instead of more and more guns got so many downvotes…is it the potential balance issues it could create?

reef violet
leaden coyote
vocal ember
crystal plume
#

Can you record with some software like OBS or Shadowplay instead of with your phone? Since I can't really tell what's going on at all in that video

thorn light
#

have crytek said anything about updates to prestiging? like permanently unlocking items or anything

brisk timber
#

I dont want to have to get the next OP champ with special abilities

#

On the other hand tho i also agree that Hunt needs to be very careful about the arsenal/gun bloat
and even more so with the RoF creep we see right now

thorn light
#

they could ease up the bloat by having attachments for weapons rather than completely new variants but i bet that would be a huge amount of work

brisk timber
#

A good example in that regard is CounterStrike which hasnt changed nearly at all and is a very simple but tactical shooter at its core. Its the ol' reliable - where your gun and skill is what counts

leaden coyote
#

On the point of the hoodoo I agree that it needs to be subtle to differentiate it from other games abilities, as well as tie into the lord of hunt. What if it was more stuff you found in the world? Corrupted wellsprings scattered across the map that give you certain powers for a period of time when you activate it?

brisk timber
#

What if we just dont? 😄

#

i want hunt to be about me, my team and guns

#

not about some shit abilities i have to calculate into the mix

#

Somebody suddently starts to vanish in smokes, jumpes 2 meter up a wall or some shit

leaden coyote
brisk timber
#

Blazeborn for example isnt very liked to play against rn

#

Same as Bullwark negating 50% of explo damage

leaden coyote
brisk timber
#

Solo revive or Deathpact corpse vision would be some of the mechanics freshly added

#

But those need to be added carefully and organically which right now is the case i think

#

And they hardly are "special abilites" overall but rather extensions that try to deal with inherent problems of the game
Not creating new fancy gimmicks

#

(solo revive also is hardly a new mechanic if i think about it - the revive mechanic at its core is an established thing)

unborn dagger
#

^

#

And I definitely would not want stuff like magical powers such as shooting fireballs. Not what I came to play hunt for

little jackal
#

I would really appreciate some expansion to dark sight powers, right now it's somewhat optional despite it being a prerequisite to the hunting in the lore (I think? or something). Tracking hunters with witness is a good example. That said, imo a big part of Hunt dna is the (pseudo)realistic shooting part. Wouldn't be as sexy if there were fireballs alongside winfields.

reef violet
#

I can agree I think adding to much would detract from the identity of hardened hunters fighting the evils in the bayoo as “relatively” normal doods. Which is pretty badass as is

#

That being said o don’t think new guns is the best way to go in terms of keeping the game fresh and interesting. Try adding more game features or modes or bosses

little jackal
#

yeah. Is there a single person who has ever gone "damn this game is so full of content, only problem is the lack of guns" ?

brisk timber
#

please never do this. never. ever. at. all.

#

This gonna be the day i would insta quit hunt

unborn dagger
#

Me and my friends talked about it and yeah I don't think there should be anymore guns especially with guns not feeling unique to each other anymore

#

If they were to add more i mean

brisk timber
hot vigil
unborn dagger
hot vigil
#

But that is because they cannot bloat out a battlepass with banners/emotes/sprays (thank god).

unborn dagger
#

Theyll find a way I bet ya

hot vigil
#

I miss when the event pass was like 10 levels

#

I bet as we run out of custom ammo we will see the blood bond unlocks getting split in half

#

so you get "more" unlocks but still the same amount of BB

brisk timber
hot vigil
#
  • event pacts/traits muddies the initial balance perception.
karmic ivy
hot vigil
rotund obsidian
nimble onyx
#

so the new john wick Bornheim is trash. dual wield is handling is only good from 3 meters if you're lucky. Why put in a weapon that handles this bad.

austere stone
#

Why would you dual wield regular bornheim?

#

One of the hardest trials has you use dual bornheim.

rotund obsidian
#

that new bornheim is actually whisper quiet, i was just getting peppered from like 35-40m and had zero clue where it was coming from

brisk timber
#

Oh man how i would love to see the conclusions of the new poll

#

thats so much interesesting data of the event and how the maps are liked

#

I REALLY appreciate if they would overhaul the worst offenders of the compounds

#

Like Cypress huts needs way less off those crows everywhere

#

or crematorium and stillwater... all those underground lairs need more vision entries

willow igloo
#

I cant believe there was no question about the fire only being on the weekends

brisk timber
#

Overall compounds could use way more cracks and entries to encourage fighting

brisk timber
#

They seem to not wanna commit with inferno right now and test the waters

rotund obsidian
#

as bad as the previous inferno was, it was still sick and i never felt bad about getting it

vital fractal
opaque glen
vital fractal
#

Nice

prisma sundial
#

#game-ideas message
This would be the first one shot rifle without a nasty big firing pin restricting our view! I love the idea!

unborn dagger
#

@dense fjord Do we really need another heavy knife buff? It seems strong enough as is and just a better version of the regular knife.

dense fjord
#

Come on

unborn dagger
dense fjord
#

I refuse to believe that’s a real opinion lol

#

Knife has more range it’s just better at pvp

unborn dagger
#

It can literally do everything the regular knife does but shotter fucking range what do you mean

dense fjord
#

Aside from your argument about knife I’ll just say one other thing throwing axes completely outshine it

unborn dagger
#

Having bleed, being able to take out concertina wire easily, and having a horizontal slash, being better at taking out pve, with less stamina usage, you're really gonna sit there and tell me regular knife is better because range?

dense fjord
#

It’s only medium bleed

#

And it’s very prone to hit limbs

#

Since it doesn’t have limb pen and it’s horizontal

unborn dagger
#

You're out of your mind then. Having medium bleed and being able to horizontal slash is huge.

dense fjord
#

Not at all

unborn dagger
#

Yes very much so, you do not have to aim that much either

dense fjord
#

Used it a lot then switched to knuckle knife after a straight year of heavy knife use and never looked back

#

I have a lot of experience killing people with heavy knife and it’s just not that great

unborn dagger
#

I do too and it's just better at dealing with practically everything

dense fjord
#

My favorite part about it was light attacking grunt heads but it’s just not as good as knife or knuckle knife

#

I can’t really justify taking it personally

unborn dagger
#

It's better than regular knife dude. Especially when you need a way to chop down concertina wire

reef violet
#

#game-ideas message how bout having them work on making new content that isn’t guns lol. It’s a silly idea and I love the attitude.

vital fractal
#

Heavy knife is better than normal knife in PvE

But in PvP normal is better

#

It’s more consistent 1 tap

unborn dagger
crystal plume
#

Swipe based melee attacks have a chance to bug out with targets that are next to walls/objects and not hit them

#

I've had it happen enough times to not bother with them anymore, stabs are the way to go

#

Knife, knuckle knife, saber, bayonets

daring isle
#

Delete Cain, Delete The Headsman, these skins are pay to win. Delete the Avtomat, give back decent long ammo supply. With all the spam, increase speed of quick swap to balance up skill guns.

stark fulcrum
#

@shy lava thats a really interesting idea you posted. Having low budget loadout wildcards would be fun imo.

dapper fiber
#

@shy lava
#game-ideas message

May honestly be one of the coolest suggestions I've read. Would definitely be cool to see matches with budget loadouts and high-end loadouts. Seems really fun.

#

But Crytek doesn't add what the people want lmfao

shy lava
#

@stark fulcrum @dapper fiber Ty guys! I like idea of considering weapon vs. tools/consumables on a limited budget (wich would work best if everyone is in the same situation. could work with other types of "rules" aswell :p

crystal plume
#

I don't know if we would've been celebrating our 5 year anniversary this year if they added everything that people wanted... ConcernedFrogeHat

#

I like that suggestion as well

dapper fiber
#

Unfortunately Crytek is very hesitant to split the playerbase into different contracts

crystal plume
#

Sadly adding separate gamemodes/queues/contracts is not as simple as just making them

#

At least with custom lobbies people will be able to make up their own rules for playing

dapper fiber
crystal plume
#

I'm sure there will be plenty of people organizing lobbies for them

#

Who knows, maybe we'll even look into something for this server

wanton sable
#

how would those custom lobbies work? same as a normal match without money/xp?

subtle marsh
#

So not only will they not make the dark inferno during the week they have doubled down with a schedule and still no reason for the change

hard hedge
#

please stop making challenges specific. make it do damage with pistols or compact ammo not do damage with the bornheim. i don’t like being forced to use weapons i don’t like to complete challenges.

crystal plume
#

People are still going on about uppermat bring worse than uppercut precision?

#

It quite literally has better stats when it comes to everything other than the fact that it does less than 125 damage

vital fractal
#

Versus the precision, it may not be the biggest change but in terms of actual play- but add context that a single slot uppercut can outshine the LeFat,

And now there’s a version that is better in everyway over the one slot minus reload (which honestly feels like no difference) , yeah the UpperP is better-

late quartz
#

How is instantly killing hunters to the upper chest within 11 meters "extremely niche" ._.

#

having your uppercut also be a romero handcanon doesn't sound very niche.
Quartermaster builds with a long ammo primary and a slug shotgun secondary are some of the strongest and most versatile in the game. You get to double dip into that versatility and raw power while also increasing the ammo pool of your primary and having a faster firing long ammo weapon for closer ranges

unborn smelt
#

If one really wants to make it work with slugs one can - but then again one can make long ammo work as a body OHK slug to beginn with by downing the opponent once or dealing fire dmg with smth like a hellfire or similar effect

late quartz
#

Slugs all share range across barrel lengths

#

It's functionally a romero handcanon

#

"Already kill the guy once" or "damage them from another source first" are uhhhh... probably not as reliable or consistent variables

#

typically the drawback of a shotgun is you're limiting your effective range, but having the option of swapping to a shotgun means you can choose to force those ranges, or simply capitalize on them as they arise

#

Being able to reliably consistently kill a full HP hunter is very strong. I find it hard to believe anybody would honestly disagree with that lol

jagged wagon
#

@tribal wyvern While I 100% agree with you, crytek know dark skins sell well, it’s all about money sadly.

tribal wyvern
static harbor
#

Does the uppercut deadeye use steady aim or steady hand?

tribal wyvern
#

Steady hand

static harbor
#

Thank you

willow burrow
tribal wyvern
#

im saying that theres no way to get bb, outside of buying it

willow burrow
willow burrow
celest spindle
keen bolt
celest spindle
keen bolt
#

Just so it can 1 tap downed hunter once

celest spindle
#

the krag unlike all other long ammo weapon is a really balanced one, due to the 124dmg

keen bolt
#

At close range

celest spindle
keen bolt
#

Oh well

#

Fair enough

#

But still

#

Pax is in a weird spot rn

tribal wyvern
#

We need fewer ways to do 125dmg, not more.

rotund obsidian
#

the only thing uppermat needs is a price reduction 🗣️

#

also maybe buff the lemat pistols buckshot a bit so slugs aren't basically mandatory to kill anything, but that's more of a lemat issue in general

stark fulcrum
#

@keen bolt i vote for anything pro pax

#

So I thumbs upped it lol

#

But I'd rather them just make a pax buntline with higher velo and dmg, say 400 velo and 120 dmg

#

Sounds fair

keen bolt
#

Another idea is to extend the range better than fmj but without penetration

#

And still special ammo

unborn smelt
unborn smelt
#

so for that bit less reliability you get far more actual power

unborn smelt
# late quartz typically the drawback of a shotgun is you're limiting your effective range, but...

The typical upside of a handcannon is you don't have to sacrifice the range - because you can bring a short slot rifle without a perk or a full rifle with a perk.
The issue with that however is that people don't value that "upside" they share with the Uppermat over just bringing an actual full size shotguns and an uppercut, or a full size rifle and stay at range. Because the other options are usually far more reliable on their own

unborn smelt
# late quartz Being able to reliably consistently kill a full HP hunter is very strong. I find...

I'm not disagreeing with that statement entirely - but the core issue of many of the OHK weapons in medium slot is that those are still usually outperformed by a 3 slot + 1 slot loadout, that either brings an even better "conventional" OHK, like a full size shotgun - or a massively more powerful "theoretical/coincidental" OHK like long ammo having an absurd OHK range of 50-60m, altho requiring a bit of a setup, which isn't that hard anymore with the plethora of options (from fire effects like hellfire, firebolts, firebeetle, people having died before due to third party or at your hands, or just the old fashioned running out of meds).

and that's also disregarding that you can and could have for quite a while, gotten the slug potential on a basic LeMat in just a small slot over the medium of the UpperMat requiring less perk points or a stronger primary as you then can just bring a 3 slot primary, usually for range, instead of needing QM or taking a second 2 slot

#

Again just to clarify - yes it absolutely can be strong and one can make it work just fine - but what's required to make it work from my experience is just kinda niche situations/playstyles.

brisk timber
#

If the uppercut would be brought down to 124hp damage the uppermat would look way more sexy in return. It also would benefit a real toss up between uppermat vs uppercutP.
The uppercut 1shotting 125hp is a bit too strong for a pistol anyway in my opinion.

dusky tapir
#

I guess 126 damage is for the colt walker gimmick's sake

#

imagine if uppercut was medium ammo at 126 damage omegalul

halcyon turret
#

Can the legendary hunters be sorted so it makes it easier to access the ones I need? Kinda like how they appear in the store maybe? Having to constantly scroll through is a pain.

elfin narwhal
#

trackers still dont work propperly killed 3 people with high velocity and it only counted 69 dammage

hot vigil
#

@stiff bough Poison bolt is techinally reliable, issue is just that if you are too close the crows gets spooked by the crossbow going off before getting hit.

digital aspen
#

Server down for Xbox ?

hard geyser
#

Error x30001 is back again!

pastel zodiac
#

Ah good, I’m not the only one then…

silver ermine
hot vigil
topaz charm
#

error 0x30001

versed dagger
#

Title: Backend Error 0x30001

balmy spindle
#

crytek? better get back online by order of peaky blinders

bright sparrow
robust bobcat
#

Servers all occupied, is it normal in this case?

grave plume
#

servers all occupied

pliant wren
#

I aim for the crow and 95% of the time it works.

quiet jungle
#

when are the servers online

#

ef,,

stark fulcrum
#

@wicked frost tbf I cant see anything in the pic. Turn your brightness up lol.

wicked frost
#

@stark fulcrum it is cranked up

wanton sable
#

dont bother, they already promised they are working on those invisible skins, that was well over a year ago

wicked frost
#

gotta milk that headsman dolla hehe

stark fulcrum
#

Turn up you pc display settings

#

Something...thats dark af

wicked frost
#

hmm how great and cooperative to receive the feedback, promise the changes and then, well, basically do what politicians do - milk more money and dont change a thing (although gotta give it to them, they managed to nerf flashbang) 😉

stark fulcrum
#

But you're right about headsman

#

Its op atm

wicked frost
# stark fulcrum Something...thats dark af

@stark fulcrum theres the thing with entering darker spaces in hunt from outside when its sunny - it gets darker for a moment than it should, idk what to do about that

vital fractal
#

Why does FMJ add a giant 40m increase to Winfield compact headshot range…?

wicked frost
vital fractal
#

Yeah but that’s a ridiculous increase compared actually drop off increase of 20m

#

I guess it’s a side effect of compacts ridiculous headmultiplier

late quartz
# unborn smelt I'm not disagreeing with that statement entirely - but the core issue of many of...

Went to bed, oof.

I sort of feel like you didn't address my points very well, and instead skirted around them quite a lot.

It's only functionally a romero HC with slugs
I did explicitly say this was about slugs in my initial message. I can't think of any conceivable reason why you'd not run slugs here. Saying "It's not as good without slugs" is probably true for almost every shotgun in the game. They're sort of an unbalanced ammo type lol.

if you build around it just a little, like bring a hellfire or handcrossbow with firebolts, or just keep your range till you got the first pickoff
This is inherently less reliable because there are more prerequisites. Requiring a knock, requiring that you're only fighting that knocked player, or requiring that a player has been hit by another source of damage in inherently making it not a one hit kill. If I need to hit you with a firebomb or a firebolt... I'm not one shotting you... I'm two shotting you with a potentially larger gap between instances of damage.
A one shot is a one shot, requiring more than one source of damage makes it not a one shot anymore lol.

those are still usually outperformed by a 3 slot + 1 slot loadout, that either brings an even better "conventional" OHK, like a full size shotgun - or a massively more powerful "theoretical/coincidental" OHK like long ammo having an absurd OHK range of 50-60m
The loadout I outlined specifically has a long ammo rifle as its 3 slot primary. The lemat gives you both the benefits of a romero handcanon, the extra ammo capacity of an uppercut, and a faster rate of fire than your primary for closer range fights.
You're not sacrificing your one shot potential at range or against downed players... This is covered by your primary.

#

None of this is niche. Uppercut + mosin has been a popular 3+1 loadout forever. This gives you essentially all the same upshot of that loadout with the additional power of a slug handcanon. By definition your loadout is less niche by giving it extremely potent close range power.

#

The uppermat doesn't replace a long ammo rifle, while the uppercut can. That's, in essence, why the uppercut is good: 85~90% of the power of a long ammo rifle but in a 1 slot weapon.

That's not what the uppermat does, and so its place in a loadout is going to look pretty different.
As I said initially, 3 slot long ammo rifle + 2 slot slug shotgun is a very very strong combo, imo one of the strongest loadout archetypes in this game. Getting to dip into that power while also increasing your long ammo reserves and keeping a secondary pistol for a faster RPM in close ranges seems like quite a lot of upside.

vital fractal
# late quartz The uppermat doesn't replace a long ammo rifle, while the uppercut can. That's, ...

I mean, with a trait for bolt rifles, wouldn’t the rifle be just as fast as the UpperMat at shooting? Besides if you are bringing it as an ammo slave, you’d be using your rifle over the UpperMat for a majority of the fight, unless you’re pushing in so close that you can’t reload your rifle in time- which isn’t that what the slugs are for? And, then if you miss your slugs you’re usually out of luck, if the slug kills that is- because a hectic close range encounter means arm shots at 3m aren’t uncommon… UpperMat isn’t useless and on paper sounds amazing but, usually in practice it doesn’t really play out like described- I mean, why push in with a rifle too when the point is to stay medium to long distances with a rifle… in that case make the three slot a shotgun, the LeFat as an ammo slave for the shotgun itself and use the krag like damage as a back up- but even then, the ammo boost of two/three shells isn’t really a major boost to the loadout when you can avoid needing quarter master and just run a one slot uppercut or if you want to boost your ranged capabilities even more, run a scoped UpperP?

But it seems you kinda have to acknowledge that it’s relegated to a back up at that point rather than something, as you noted with the uppercut, can be used as a primary in shotgun loadouts with more reliability damage wise (that 125 health gate is a big deal that negates a slight fire rate improvement), and if you’re running lefat to have a one tap med sidearm… you can just run a compact HC with slugs for more slugs, faster slug fire rate, or just a cheap Romero HC for optional slugs and other ammo- but at that point you’re giving up all the options a full HC can give you for a one time use slug essentially (because if you miss the first one, the reload is horrendous and you’re probably going to die) and 9 extra long ammo- which the uppercut can give you in one slot… now in case of the precision Uppercut with a rifle 1/x

#

It’ll just be a stronger option within 20m due to one tap ability with a 1 time downed enemy or you can just run a HC if you feel like you are going to need that close range damage…

It does the job as a Jack of all trades well, but when someone wants a specific job done- it’s less valuable in that case compared to the uppercut or a HC-

opaque glen
#

I ain't reading allat, but I disagree, that is a terrible idea or I agree wholeheartedly

vital fractal
opaque glen
#

lol

vital fractal
#

I wrote that all while pooping and doing small tasks

#

Now that I’m done, I’ll read the response and go back to playing hunt without further response

late quartz
#

with a trait for bolt rifles, wouldn’t the rifle be just as fast as the UpperMat at shooting?
I don't think iron sharpshooter cuts out 600ms between shots, no. If you have relevant stats to suggest it does, for sure let me know, but last I checked it was closer to a 10~15% ROF increase.

you’d be using your rifle over the UpperMat for a majority of the fight, unless you’re pushing in so close that you can’t reload your rifle in time- which isn’t that what the slugs are for?
Any time you have an uppercut + mosin, the times you'd use the uppercut over the mosin would be mimiced here lol. You just have the opportunity to swap to slugs fairly quickly as well.

And, then if you miss your slugs you’re usually out of luck
If you miss all your shots you lose. Don't suck, skill issue LOL. This just applies to anything. if you miss you're more likely to die. You can always swap back to your other firemode if you fuck up. No matter what, you don't want to miss shots in close range fights lul.

why push in with a rifle too when the point is to stay medium to long distances with a rifle
Because you can't just sit around at range 100% of the time. People push with mosins... The whole point here is that this loadout lets you push more flexibly and allows you to perform on-part with close range loadouts in terms of raw killing power. If you're scared to push because your loadout is inflexible... Try a more flexible loadout.

#

but even then, the ammo boost of two/three shells isn’t really a major boost to the loadout when you can avoid needing quarter master and just run a one slot uppercut or if you want to boost your ranged capabilities even more, run a scoped UpperP?
... this is just a different loadout. You're just saying "I don't care about close range fights" which... I guess is a valid playstyle but it's completely a matter of your own personal preferences and not one of balance or power.

it’s relegated to a back up at that point
It's a secondary weapon, yes.

you can just run a compact HC with slugs for more slugs, faster slug fire rate, or just a cheap Romero HC for optional slugs and other ammo
You can do that, yes. As I've said these are the strongest loadouts in the game in my opinion. The benefit of the Lemat is that you're getting much of this power while also keeping all the benefits of having a secondary pistol AND getting extra ammo for your primary. This is not a min/maxed loadout. If you min/max you will be more specialized into a few things. This is about getting multiple benefits from multiple categories simultaneously rather than going full hog into a single thing.

but at that point you’re giving up all the options a full HC can give you for a one time use slug essentially (because if you miss the first one, the reload is horrendous and you’re probably going to die) and 9 extra long ammo- which the uppercut can give you in one slot
You're not giving up ALL the benefits of a handcanon. It's not a rival HC, it's a romero HC. There are better handcanons, but none of them give you a pistol and extra long ammo.
You can take the uppercut for the extra ammo... but then you don't have a shotgun LOL.

Welcome to versatile loadouts; they usually aren't better at individual things than a min/maxed loadout, but they get to be decent or good at multiple things as a tradeoff.

#

It basically comes down to "I don't really care about having a slug shotgun" which... Okay I guess you're well within your rights to not care about a slug shotgun.

Personally I'd rather have a gun that can instantly kill a full HP player in situations that least favor my primary, rather than just a second gun that can kill players who already died once.

I'm not sure how people go around wishing and hoping that every fight they get into is against a player who's already died once, but that's not how Hunt plays out in my experience.
MOST players have not already died. Players with 150 HP are more common than players with 125 HP.
There's a reason why players with long ammo rifles don't like to push players with slug shotguns, it's because slug shotguns fucking rock and the majority of the time you can't just one tap people with your boltie cause they ain't been downed yet

vague rune
#

Suggestion: Please rebalance solos. They are single handedly ruining the game. I have been playing this game for a looooong time, and the changes made for solo players is ruining game play.

  1. Game play is now focused around waiting until solos burn out so I can play the rest of the game.
#

Solo: Let's camp with a sniper rifle.

prime ibex
#

@green moat 1, Scrapbeak is 'well balanced' as the only boss who hoards the compound. 2, don't know how else to tell you this with any kinder disposition, but the boss ain't hard.

unborn dagger
#

Derringer is really only there as a last resort type of tool, I think it's pretty fair imo

glacial rose
#

is it just impossible to eliminate cheating? just wondering what is being done at the moment

hot beacon
#

Dear Sir/Madam We all are wish for riding horse roaming in a huge map at wild west land. And the Train is working, The Train roaming around on railway with HUGE map have 3boss bounty Please Crytek please HUNT Showdown make our wish come true.

unborn smelt
# late quartz Went to bed, oof. I sort of feel like you didn't address my points very well, a...

I did explicitly say this was about slugs in my initial message. I can't think of any conceivable reason why you'd not run slugs here.
Maybe you want to hipfire like a traditional shotgun instead of needing to ADS it like a rifle, or you want versatility of another ammotype, like pennyshot. That's stuff you could have with a romero - while you can't with the UpperMat, which requires slugs for any sort of reliability

This is inherently less reliable because there are more prerequisites.
Here is have to disagree - just as with the UpperMat shotgun, it's only inherently less reliable, if you really really want to enforce that OHK play, If you play this loadout like the regular Rifle loadouts that have been Meta for years at this point, and just capitalize when the situation arises, it's very very powerfuly and very reliable as a playstyle to help you win (ofc it's not more reliable as a playtyle to give you OHKs) that's the POV i see it from.

A one shot is a one shot, requiring more than one source of damage makes it not a one shot anymore lol.
comes down to semantics... If you need to fend off another player with the UpperMats long ammo mode - is killing the same player 5 min later with the shotgun, not a OHK anymore, because you tagged them earlier with the long ammo ?
Because that's the power of long ammo, while you don't have the OHK scenario available from the beginning, but as soon as as an enemy lost 25 HP, which can happen due to to multiple reasons you have one of the most powerful OHK tools in the game, where you don't need to double tap them anymore.

#

The loadout I outlined specifically has a long ammo rifle as its 3 slot primary. The lemat gives you both the benefits of a romero handcanon, the extra ammo capacity of an uppercut, and a faster rate of fire than your primary for closer range fights.
Okay sure, but in actual gameplay is that more valuable than for example bringing just the Mosin, and a LeMat with with for example slugs and invest the points you don't need for QM in other perks, like doctor, or Fanning ?
If it works for you - great, never doubted that nor that one can make it work. But i doubt that enough people really want to sac a traitslot for QM, to bring a very expensive pistol for the sole purpose of stacking ammo and having the weakest slug available to themand a bit faster ROF than their rifle but also nowhere near fast enough to be good in CQC. If you very specifically look for those traits - yes the Uppermat is really good. But from my experience people rather play a bit more optimized, like an actual good (3-slot) slug shotgun + an uppercut + invest the trait points elswhere or just play a good long ammo loadout and capitalize on OHK opportunities when they arise. Because of that i think the UpperMat is pretty niche.

late quartz
# unborn smelt > I did explicitly say this was about slugs in my initial message. I can't think...

you want versatility of another ammotype, like pennyshot
I just fundamentally do not think any of the other shotgun ammo types have any meaningful upside over slugs or buck. Dragonbreath and starshot are meme options, flechettes is highly highly situational and more of an offmeta fun option than a potent choice. The idea that pennyshot is "versatile" is laughable. We know it's statistically garbage for PvP. It's not "versatile" it's sacrificing a weapon for quick bossing or meathead farming.

comes down to semantics
Literally not semantics. You're not oneshotting something if you have to damage it beforehand. If I have to rely on multiple sources of damage I might as well just shoot the guy twice. Firebombs are very finite, you don't get to carry one for every single time you peek a guy. Firebolts' radius are fairly small if you want to burn a player down to 125, and this forces you to expose yourself in the vast majority of situations. Again, if I'm peeking a dude I might as well just shoot him.
You can't rely on somebody being down a chunk to win your fights. It's nice when it's the case, but most players will not be in that state.

invest the points you don't need for QM in other perks, like doctor, or Fanning ?
Probably not a first extract type of loadout if you didn't score big enough to get your other required traits as well. Most of the time though, I tend to extract with 25~30 trait points on the first go with a hunter which is going to be enough to get your most important traits plus QM.
I wouldn't take QM over doctor or packmule most of the time but... that's just universal. QM is a high value trait but there are a few that stand above it.

unborn smelt
#

We know it's statistically garbage for PvP. It's not "versatile" it's sacrificing a weapon for quick bossing or meathead farming.
unless the gun is said Romero HatEyes

late quartz
#

But from my experience people rather play a bit more optimized
I think you're half right. I think players do want to optimize, but I don't think this is an example of an unoptimized loadout.
I think we've communally decided that the uppermat is dogshit, because it's very expensive and because it's a medium slot. I think its reputation prevents people from theorycrafting with it, its been largely written off and I think that clouds peoples' ability to make accurate judgements on its power.

Again, I'd never argue that it's better than the uppercut. It's not, and it will never be because having a one slot weapon that works about as well as a 3 slot long ammo boltie is ridiculous.
The biggest drawback of the uppermat is that it's a 2 slot, which is a drawback shared with the uppercut precision (a variant that sacrifices the biggest benefit of its base). This whole thing started as an "uppermat vs uppercut precision", and in that regard I think the uppermat has a lot to offer. The uppercut is still a better pistol, but the uppermat is a better shotgun while still being a reasonable pistol.

late quartz
unborn smelt
#

Literally not semantics. You're not oneshotting something if you have to damage it beforehand. If I have to rely on multiple sources of damage I might as well just shoot the guy twice. Firebombs are very finite, you don't get to carry one for every single time you peek a guy. Firebolts' radius are fairly small if you want to burn a player down to 125, and this forces you to expose yourself in the vast majority of situations. Again, if I'm peeking a dude I might as well just shoot him.
You can't rely on somebody being down a chunk to win your fights. It's nice when it's the case, but most players will not be in that state.
Feels like you skirted my point too - how much time has to pass between t hits for it to not by a OHK anymore ? you don't have to hellfire the guy and then instandtly tap them - you can hellfire someone in preparation or change your playstlye to a more agressive one when you know they'll be at 125 because you downed them....
Yeah and the dead guy - other than this event, like in regular gameplay, they are 125 hp at max by default, you don't need to burn em what so ever.

You don't have to rely on that because your power is not mainly the OHK, that is just an extremely powerful bonus, that if you know they are on 125 hp you can absolutely rely on.

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

As I said, even if there's a time gap requiring some prerequisite damage necessarily means it's not a one shot kill. If I firebomb a guy then wait 5 minutes it's still not a one shot kill, because if he just pushed into your face without the firebomb first you couldn't one tap him.

Again, most players are gonna have full chunks. It's not an ULTRA RARE scenario that they'll be at 125, but it's not the majority of PvP encounters.
I'm not suggesting you sacrifice your ability to one tap 125hp players lol, this isn't an "do one or the other" scenario. I'm suggesting you allow yourself the privilege of doing both.

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

Yeah of course

unborn smelt
#

yeah then paying that much for the "OHK" is even less of smth people will care foe

late quartz
#

Why do people play shotguns ._.

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

This is why shotguns are the second most popular set of primary weapons in the game after long ammo bolites

unborn smelt
#

not because they refuse to defend themselves on range and wait for the enemy to push close

late quartz
#

Do you feel that I'm suggesting players do that

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

I don't see how those two things relate to eachother at all

#

You have a primary weapon, use it. If you see an opportunity to create a close range encounter, or if you are forced into one, you'll be able to instantly kill the first guy who engages you

#

Just like if you were playing a slug rival with an uppercut you play both ranges comfortably, you don't just lock yourself down to one type of fight

#

Take your ranged shots with the gun that allows it, make powerful pushes or hold strong close range angles when it's a good option

#

Be flexible, be dynamic

unborn smelt
# late quartz I don't see how those two things relate to eachother at all

because if you tag someone they heal full and you OHK them from 150 HP 5 min later people will usually still count that as a OHK and play a shotgun for that reason.
but you can achieve the same with a "long ammo set up" by hitting them with a hellfire or downing them once - 5 min later you can treat your long ammo bolty like a Nitro in CQC

late quartz
#

It is literally "one shot with extra steps", which yeah I don't think is as strong as "one shot full stop"

#

I'm not sure how you can disagree with that ._.

#

I'd rather be able to instantly kill a fresh hunter the first time I see them

#

Rather than already win a fight against them or spend consumables to make it an option

#

125+ damage weapons are strong, you'll get no argument from me

unborn smelt
#

Just like if you were playing a slug rival with an uppercut you play both ranges comfortably, you don't just lock yourself down to one type of fight
Well i'd argue a LeMat slug isn't "comfortable" in CQC to beginn with. yes it can work, but it's almost the weakest thing you can go for in CQC.
And then you also need to put yourself in said CQC engagement, which is very easy to avoid due to how hunt works

late quartz
#

But they don't one shot reliably. They one shot situationally.

unborn smelt
#

yes it's good, if you in your playstyle get into that situation a lot

#

but i'd argue most people don't, making it again a niche option

late quartz
#

it's almost the weakest thing you can go for in CQC.
The weakest slug shotgun is still outrageously fucking strong. It's not THE BEST CLOSE RANGE WEAPON but it's extremely good nonetheless.
This is the difference between an absolute power level and a comparative one. On an absolute power level, the lematt still slaps close range. On a comparative power level sure it's weaker than other shotguns... but I'd rather have a shotgun than no shotgun at all when I'm in a close range fight.

unborn smelt
# late quartz But they don't one shot reliably. They one shot situationally.

absolutely - but in general what i'm trying to say is it's more reliable, for winning to just play a loing range loadout like you would normally, and capitalize when the situation arises. and for that i'd personally, and think most others too, would rather have a secondary that complements that playstyle , instead of a pretty bad shotgun that needs slugs and some extra long ammo that doesn't deal 125 dmg.

#

The weakest slug shotgun is still outrageously fucking strong. It's not THE BEST CLOSE RANGE WEAPON but it's extremely good nonetheless.
I'd beg to differ - and i think the low amounts of slug LeMats is speaking for itself

late quartz
#

Totally disagree. There's literally no reason why taking a boltie alone would be more reliable than taking a boltie plus an uppermat with slugs lol.

This loadout already gets to one shot 125hp targets

unborn smelt
#

saying smth like bolty + whatever secondary you prefer to go with it

#

cold be a regular LeMat with fanning and slugs

#

for even better CQC

#

could be an uppercut

#

could be a handcrossbow

#

could be a Dolch

late quartz
#

"Playing a long range loadout like you would normally" implies you're gonna be at long range, in which case no other secondary really benefits you much because the boltie will be your best ranged option. You say yourself, you wanna just force long range fights, meaning your secondary wont be used much.

This loadout is more flexible, allows you to stay at range and benefit from extra ammo from your lematt while also having a great option if it becomes more advantageous in the moment to play closer. In this situation where you're playing mostly at range... you get the same exact benefit from the lematt as you do the uppercut: more ammo for your primary

#

Also lol c'mon man dolch? We're comparing weapons to the dolch to find out how strong they are lol

#

It's the dolch

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

Sure, why wouldn't I go for a sniper and lematt if I have trait points to burn

unborn smelt
#

scope for even better long range, and uppercut for better RoF in "close range" and retain that 125+ dmg without a scope

#

of since as you put it " your loadout alreads OHK's 125 hp opponents" do Mosin + regular LeMat+Fanning

#

for far better CQC coverage

late quartz
#

I think that would also be a decent choice but like... that's just "I prefer fanning over slugs"

unborn smelt
#

once the slug is out, you still have 9 rounds of fanning for the second pusher and you already have range and 125+ co vered anyway

late quartz
#

If you feel that way that's valid, I find fanning to be less consistent than slugs

unborn smelt
#

you don't trade one for the other - basic Lemat gives you both in a small slot

late quartz
#

Sure I mean, you can fan the uppermat can you not? It's worse at it, but you get your long ammo reserves

#

Thus is the nature of Hunt, you trade benefits for other benefits

#

Loadouts baby

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

I'll check

#

Fairly sure you can

#

But maybe not

unborn smelt
#

might need to ceck but i'm sure fanning specified small slot pistols

late quartz
#

it doesn't have a stock so it's not in the same category as a precision variant

#

Nope seems like you're right

#

I mean, hey, fair enough. If you prefer lematt slugs + fanning over the uppermat... Couldn't fault you
that also sounds like a fine loadout

#

Reserve ammo has always been a valid reason to make a secondary choice, and I think that remains a pretty clear reason why one might choose an uppermat to support a long ammo boltie

unborn smelt
#

after they changed the resupply

#

now that that isn't dependant on spare ammo anymore

late quartz
#

Sure but you still get better sustain

#

it's not like it doesn't matter now, especially in long ammo weapons which have very low reserves

#

Longevity in fights is a huge factor if you're playing at range

queen jungle
#

@glass fable The only posts that get removed are ones that either violate server wide or channel specific rules. We do not remove any posts because we don't like them.

unborn smelt
#

the question is if people really want to cash out the extra money, perk points/slots, and potential other strengths like an actual high RoF secondary for the few extra rounds

#

and that's what i'm questioning so much

late quartz
#

For a few extra rounds? No. For a few extra rounds and a slug shotgun? Potentially yeah.
Do people DO IT? No, but i think that's because we decided the uppermat was dogshit from day 1 and nobody really cares to question that

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

Nah I do not believe that to be the case

#

I think people follow trends, guns like the officer carbine have been in the game forever and only very recently started to see a lot of use. Any relevant balancign changes have been relatively minor.

unborn smelt
#

if i really wanna play slugs - i take a 3 slot shotty and pair that with an uppercut because i enjoy the CQC anyway and a 3 slot slus is more potent

late quartz
#

I decided that gun was broken in like 2019 LOL and it took years for the community to catch up

unborn smelt
#

if i wanna play range anyway why sac so much for just 9 rounds

late quartz
#

Because you're not actually sacrificing that much ._.

unborn smelt
#

it lost popularity after it has been nerfed for being called broken by damn near everyone

#

they just kind of undid most of the nerf again - so it became more popular again

late quartz
#

I don't think the nerfs it received ever meaningfully affected its potential, that's the point I'm making.

The perception that something has been "nerfed" or "buffed" will often take precedent over the actual substance of the change.
There's a very interesting anecdote, I can try to find it, but in League of Legends there was a buff for a champion in the patch notes and suddenly its win rate skyrocketed. The funny thing was that the buff never hit the servers, they accidentally left it out of the patch. Jus the perception that a buff happened was enough to change players' attitudes to have a major effect on outcomes.

#

Even in its weakest state it was still much the same weapon

unborn smelt
#

but that's the downfall of basically all the medium slot rifles, the Crossbow, Bow and also the Carbine

late quartz
#

The recoil increase was sort of uncomfortable and enough to push a lot of players off the weapon, but this was also before a lot of other relevant balance changes like nerfs to the dolch that we've seen since then, along with major economy rebalances

#

It was very easy to just kinda go "meh officer carbine, who needs it" and move to other options

#

Also around that time the winfield was very popular, which has lessened recently but it was very much "in meta" around 2020~2021

unborn smelt
#

devs made that pretty clear

late quartz
#

Definitely depends on what "relevant" means lol

unborn smelt
#

in top ELO it was not more deadly than just about anything else and it already was far too expensive for lower end players

late quartz
#

in top ELO it was not more deadly than just about anything else
Do you remember where they said this in particular?

unborn smelt
#

there was just a very niche area in top 5* to early 6* where the Dolch would allow the 5 stars to beat out 6*

late quartz
#

I know they kept harping on about the 2% pick rate as a reason not to nerf it

unborn smelt
#

my best guess would be the dev stream that had the relevant changes in it

late quartz
#

But like, to be fair also the benefits of the officer carbine over just a normal officer pistol are its headshot potential at range. This is something that will primarily benefit high skill players, the same players for whom the Dolch is more relevant

unborn smelt
#

didn't have that when it was introduced and before it was nerfed

late quartz
#

Which?

unborn smelt
#

the HS range which was upped for compact rifles a while ago

#

was when most of them wen't from smth like 100 to smth like 150m HS range

late quartz
#

I'd love to get hard stats on what the average fight distance is

#

But 150m is outside of anything but the largest compounds

#

Most fights, let alone most headshots aren't happening at that range

#

Again, when the officer carbine was nerfed the winfield with HV was a very popular high mmr pick

unborn smelt
#

but that also depends a lot on the current Meta and bracket

#

bigger compounds, reach smth around 70 ish meters in length rather easily, like lawson station

late quartz
#

Sure. All of this is just to say that usage rates doesn't reliably tell you about power. Sometimes it can, I don't think decoys are very good and they're also not used very much, but look at something like concertina bombs which are seeing a massive increase in popularity due to the flash bomb nerf

unborn smelt
#

just not about the maximum potential

#

more about how much potential people can actually make use of reliably

#

a gun that's easy to realize the potential of will natureally have higher playrates as a theoretically very high end gun that's too cumbersome to use for most

late quartz
#

It's an ultra common occurance in online games for things to spontaneously rise to popularity because one professional player or content creator opens the community's eyes to its potential. "It doesn't get used" is not evidence that something isn't good, or that people don't want it, it may just be evidence that the playerbase hasn't discovered its value yet.

Point being that people not picking the uppermatt is indivisible from the community notion that it sucks. I don't think it sucks, I don't think it's the best gun ever but I do think it's getting shoveled into the corner when it has a legitimate place in the game (still not perfect, still could use some balancing adjustments, but certainly not as bad as it's being framed).

unborn smelt
#

ofc it's not a 100% reliable indicator - but in general it's a good thing to go by.

#

i'm fairly confident it's reight more often than it's not

#

ofc again just for how much power people relibly get out of it - not how much potential power it holds

late quartz
#

Its a bad rule of thumb because it makes you blind. It may be right often, but when it's wrong it's suddenly useless and clouds your judgement

unborn smelt
#

but a game like hunt is supposed to be balanced around the everage player not the "Pro-scene"

late quartz
#

Another great example is FMJ

#

FMJ is super popular today. It wasn't at all when custom ammo came out and for a long while afterwards

#

The community moving towards it was a process that required it's potential to be discovered

#

Same for Lightfoot pre nerf

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

Specifically which nerfs

#

Cause a lot of special ammo has been buffed like crazy lol

unborn smelt
#

for example HV getting more expensive

late quartz
#

LOL

#

What actual nerfs

#

Cause no shot you think that's why FMJ is popular

#

When dumdum and incendiary have seen massive buffs

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

HV is still extremely cheap

unborn smelt
#

if you make a previously better option that much more expensive while you leave a competitor dirt cheap - usage will jusmp from one to another

late quartz
#

Its still pocket change

#

Its not spitzer ammo

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

Yes for the majority of the playerbase it's still a double digit price tag on almost all guns that have it

#

People spend more on one consumable than on HV

unborn smelt
#

the people that have to look at prices for stuff are far more than most people here think

#

mostly because many of those players aren't invested into the game to the point of being in the discord or being very active here

unborn smelt
#

and well custom ammo was changed a few times by now

late quartz
#

You don't have to be ultra invested in the game to afford HV ._.

this isn't the difference between buying a vetterli or a mosin

unborn smelt
#

till we're at the point we are now

late quartz
#

Money affects peoples' choices

#

But like... not at this level

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

The number of people who are fussing over 25 hunt bux is almost certainly smaller than the people who can just buy whatever and never care

#

You have to TRY to be that poor LOL

unborn smelt
#

they're just not as vocal

late quartz
#

I don't believe that they exist

#

And unless you can find some sort of statistic to prove otherwise I just will not believe you LOL

unborn smelt
#

that's fine

late quartz
#

I think this is fantasy

visual tiger
#

only 1 thing 2 make hunt perfect. it need to be able start as 2 peaple groupe and take random for full team.

unborn smelt
#

well you do you

unborn smelt
#

think it was in one of the reoadmap videos

late quartz
#

HV is 30 at its cheapest and 60 at it's most expensive
FMJ is 30 at its cheapest (only on the sparks and martini henry) and 50/60 in every other instance

#

I don't think 10 dollars is swaying people here my man

unborn smelt
#

casn't find it ren - maybe i'm wrong

unborn smelt
#

IIRC HV was at 90$ in some cases for a while

late quartz
#

Still not as popular

#

Even in its now reduced price

#

Also, as far as FMJ goes, its benefits are mostly going to show up for high skill players. Ultra-long range headshots and penetration through hard or multiple surfaces are usually not something poor or low skill players are going to care about lol

#

I don't know how much these players are playing FMJ

unborn smelt
late quartz
#

Which typically wont matter outside of headshots, yeah

unborn smelt
#

which make it easier to 2 tap on further ranges

late quartz
#

Which will also make hitting yoru shots in the first place harder lul

unborn smelt
#

especially not in lower MMR where missing a lot is the standard

late quartz
#

I feel like that's a good reason why we might imagine players use FMJ less lol

#

If you miss all your shots you probably wouldn't wanna take FMJ

unborn smelt
#

hard to tell which benefit outweight the downside

late quartz
#

Hard to say without stats really

unborn smelt
#

if you miss a lot the diffrence between needing 2 or 3 hits might be super important

late quartz
#

But I don't see many players using FMJ in 3~4 star, based on random people who stream on twitch LOL

unborn smelt
#

and FMJ helps with that by extending the time when dmg drop starts

late quartz
#

I don't know if that really makes sense but again, hard to prove either way without stats

#

"I miss so I should make myself miss more in order to require fewer shots to kill"

#

idk

unborn smelt
#

well it does make sense - more dmg retention means less punishing limbshots

#

but if that outweighs how much harder it is to hit

late quartz
#

If you're hitting limbs you're completely fucked at ranges where dropoff matters

unborn smelt
#

that's up to anyones guess without stats

late quartz
#

I mean that would be easy to prove with stats if we care enough to get into it

#

We do have that data

unborn smelt
#

in those cases dropoff matters because dropoff and limb dmg reduction potentially put the limb dmg below a 2/3 tap treshold

late quartz
#

Most guns with both HV and FMJ are compact and already wont kill in 2 shots with a limb. Maintaining 2 shots with one limb shot at range is really only relevant to the scottfield and Vetterli

#

For 3 shots... idk man I really doubt people are taking FMJ to get a 3 shot on limbs vs 2 shot

unborn smelt
#

at least on a short winnie it's +10m, which i just tested again in the shooting range

#

and that or the diffrence of needing to hit 3 vs 4 shots can be very powerful to someone hitting limbs a lot

late quartz
#

I don't believe this contributes to why this ammo type would be overwhelmingly popular, let alone among lower rank players

#

(especially if they're worried about spending hunt dollars, where they could get better MV for free)

unborn smelt
#

that's fine - up to anyones guess without the relevant stats

late quartz
#

As you said, things that have obvious and clear upside like HV tend to be popular. Balistic travel time is one of the most challenging parts of this game's gunplay, and especially for newer players a higher MV is going to help them hit shots a lot more

#

And they'll feel that increase in accuracy, where as limb shots have no feedback and people probably aren't able to consciously attribute value there

unborn smelt
#

little obstacles like that wooden fence with the fence post behind it not blocking my shots anymore

late quartz
#

How could you know that you wouldn't have killed the target though

#

You aren't told if you've hit a limb

unborn smelt
#

in the dmg history you are

late quartz
#

:P

#

You're reading your damage history on people you kill

unborn smelt
#

while if you win the shootout you're likely fine with your choice of ammo anyway

late quartz
#

I seriously doubt many 3 stars are out here doing damage log analysis, then going and using a calculator to discover that FMJ would've changed it lol

unborn smelt
#

yeah likely not - but i also doubt they will stick to HV a lot when they are already accustomed to 400 m/s velocity

#

and if they're not already they can learn the FMJ velocity just fine too because it's all trial and error still

#

so in the end likely just a personal thing which one prefers

late quartz
#

I don't think "personal preference" is a good explaination for community-wide trends and shifts in the meta

#

Well either way, ilu buddy, you're a chill dude and I appreciate the conversation

#

Uppermat underrated HuntKappa

hot vigil
#

For me, FMJ is great on most pistols, 30m/s doesn't matter a whole lot when you already down at 250-300m/s.

late quartz
#

Oh totally

#

But we sort of realized that, it wasn't immediately obvious when custom ammo came out

#

Took time for people to realize that it was goated

#

(Among other things, but FMJ wasn't a very sexy option and took time to rise to fame)

unborn smelt
#

have a great day

fossil ice
#

What do people think about the cyclone? I'm curious on other players thoughts.

leaden plank
fossil ice
#

That was my thoughts as well. I'd rather get headshot with a Sparks up close then just be 2 tapped with the cyclone I swear

leaden plank
unborn dagger
#

@long rapids The shovel's light attack is a slash though

tribal wyvern
#

Does Trio in wildcard not have sbmm ?
Doing duo vs trio & we're facing higher ranked

bleak parcel
#

?????????????????

#

I think we just suffered a big bug

brisk timber
#

Man i love all those Pax ideas

#

but can we please make a long barrel Pax NOT a 2slot gun?

#

This would completely ruin the purpose of such a variant

#

Where scotfield has a faster RoF and reload
Pax would have a longer range and maybe hv
It would be something of an uppercut light and would have its own niche with that variant

keen hearth
#

There are no questlines like 95% of the time.

#

Why?

hot vigil
# keen hearth Why?

Best guess is that it is a good idea with not enough manpower to support it.
While there is no official numbers, it is alluded to that the Hunt Dev team is a smaller part of the Crytek studio and simply between engine upgrade, quarterly event passes and whatnot it just doesn't seem like there is enough time to also support the questlines, it was sold as a "between event activity", but between bad feedback about the questlines being not fun and the sheer amount of content needed to get pushed out quarterly, it makes sense that the (so far) "free event" that gave free skins would be pushed to the side.

radiant river
#

concertina poison tripmines still not nerfed steamhappy

hot vigil
radiant river
#

true

rotund obsidian
#

@clever pebble #game-ideas message this is already planned for either end of this year or early next year iirc

#

@long rapids #game-ideas message is this not already the case? shovel light attacks are already sharp and can cut concertina? or am i misreading this

autumn stump
#

Nothings gonna make you learn faster than having actual consequences to your mistakes. Being more forgiving (I.e. less lethal traps) defeats that

hot vigil
autumn stump
hot vigil
#

Moreso, it does four things good: Damage, afflict status, slow down & block

autumn stump
#

So, what do you propose? Should shooting the main wire spool disable it instead of setting it off? Because changing anything else you mentioned would defeat the entire point of concertina, except maybe blocking bullets if that’s what you mean by blocking

rotund obsidian
#

A while back I had the idea of poison clouds corroding wire over time, so that poison+concertina traps would dissolve the wire slowly (around 30s, the duration of the poison trap cloud) so that the combo would leave bodies uncovered and it wouldn't block doorways if an explosive happened to detonate them both

#

but that's more of an instakill trap nerf (even though it would still instakill just as effectively). concertina traps alone are still pretty strong but i'm not sure how I would mitigate that besides just making damage destroy them instead of triggering them.

autumn stump
#

Could work, but not lore wise, hunt poison is hinted at being a biological substance, specifically in the Malady description, comparing it to the same blight that infected lousiana. that could just be flavor text, either way corroding wire after a 10 second grace period or something wouldn’t be a bad idea im just nit picking

#

Would also boost poison bomb utility which is good

#

Also it fits the whole trade off that the he choke bombs provide. Getting rid of fire but instead having an different kind of area denial . In this case wire for poison

hot vigil
#

But still limits what else kind of traps we can add

autumn stump
#

I don’t like wire disappearing outside of player interaction, again wire is mostly area denial utility

#

Tripwires excluded obv

hot vigil
#

Sure, but that is what concertina bomb should be for

steel comet
dense sapphire
radiant river
dense sapphire
#

Does that make my opinion invalid?

vital fractal
dense sapphire
#

True

hot vigil
glass shuttle
#

@vivid spade there's a game called call of duty you might like or maybe even battlefield 1 I saw it's on sale
Plenty of full auto guns for you to use over there

hot vigil
#

@vital fractal Steel balls can't pen

radiant river
#

even though the 1/20 raids where someone brings concertina/poison tripmines is extremely annoying, its not worth wasting my time in the other 19/20 raids checking for traps

#

you lose valuable timing while clearing a building and can potentially be shot at since enemies are usually not at the floor

#

if you hear them get placed, sure.

#

but im referring to when they're there before you arrive

#

it's not that its OP. its just dumb

#

less fun for both sides

#

also quite annoying to remove traps on windows

#

i don't mind traps for area denial, alert tripmines are fun too. But instakill inescapable combo isnt.

#

also people can trigger the traps themselves to fortify a building with concertina, which is obviously lame

hot vigil
#

I feel your pain @radiant river that said, if you ain't prestiging I will highly recommend Vigilant trait .

vital fractal
#

My point stands

hot vigil
vital fractal
vital fractal
hot vigil
radiant river
#

its just not an engaging gameplay mechanic

#

there's nothing satisfying about disarming a trap, you didn't outplay the opponent by doing it

#

and likewise for getting a kill with it

#

and a trap below a window is effectively unbreachable

#

as long as the enemy isnt dumb

brisk timber
#

Well breaching a compound especially windows withou precautions is lowskilled anyway.
A skilled player would either throw some explosive to clear his entrance or just not make the move at a window

#

Traps are fine and are a good addition to the game. It adds a tactical layer

hot vigil
hot vigil
brisk timber
#

Which is still the main goal

#

I think people should get over the sentiment that pushing is the culmination of the game

hot vigil
#

Yeah, but still kinda grinds down the engagement to full stop.
Like, dunno, I don't have too much issue with traps, just sad concertina traps are so oppressive

brisk timber
#

If people bunker down in some compound thats a legit way to play. At the end they have to come out one way or another. Just because people think the ultimate play is to push and overwhelm doesnt make it true that it is

#

And then crying about traps because the one braincell tactic didnt work 100% of the time

hot vigil
#

Hunker down is fine yes, but still think conc traps do too much.

#

And serverly limits the design window for other traps

brisk timber
#

But like i said before - people only know forward tactics it seems. Nobody seems to like to make a move back even if its sometimes the wiser thing to do.

#

In that regard conc trap are a fabulous skillcheck

hot vigil
brisk timber
#

The thing i could agree with id that explosives should trigger and destroy the concertina

hot vigil
#

Mhm mhm

brisk timber
#

So atleast double clearing an entry wouldnt be needed

hot vigil
#

No other trap retain the same amount of value when discovered and disarmed with a shot

#

So it would be fine solution

brisk timber
#

Well concertina is a bit risky in that regard.
If the planter doesnt trigger the trap byhimselfe he risks that it gets simply jumped over.

#

So there another layer to how to use the traps aswell

hot vigil
#

Well, same with any othe trap

#

Concertina still have a clear upside over any other trap, you spring them and they be gone