feedback-discussion

[broken musk]

Of course it is a bit niche, but it sounds fun to play around with it

The oil fire could last infinitely til used with a choke bomb maybe

[hot vigil]

So that would be broken lmao

[broken musk]

• You could really throw a bunch of oil bombs inside a compound, where bounty is sitting/camping, and then throw one fire bomb to light it up.

[broken musk]

Yeah

If it was to be added, crytek would probably figure something out

But yeah, i guess it's to similar to a fire bomb

[hot vigil]

Think only thing that would make it interesting is that it is a throwable, that have a throw range of 10m, when thrown it leaves a trail of oil along the thrown path and shatters on impact with an additional 3m splash zone.

Then it just works like current oil in the game.

[broken musk]

That already sounds better than what i suggested

[hot vigil]

So you can make it to cover sidelines

[broken musk]

I will edit my suggestion with that, it sounds better and more unique

[hot vigil]

And dunno if the engine can handle it, but it could be smokey too, so you can really use it as cover tool.

And also dunno if the engine can generate a trail of liquid haha

Also make it a tool and give you 2-3 charges

[broken musk]

Thanks for the insight, sounds way better

[broken musk]

Maybe with the engine update :3

[hot vigil]

And guess it really can fuck up the spider, scrapbeak and assassin, but eh, that is fun :D

[broken musk]

Yeah, i like things that add new ways and tools to deal with stuff diffrently to how you normally would

[crystal plume]

Generating a trail of oil is not that hard and nothing engine related

People underestimate cryengine constantly for whatever reason 😄 It's a more than capable engine

[broken musk]

I have just heard people talk alot of shit about it xD

[crystal plume]

The question of creating something mainly comes down to if they want to or if it's worth it

Not whether they can or can't

[vital fractal]

Enh, I could see the oil lasting longer on the ground at the cost of needing an ignition source

[broken musk]

Well, spit balling the idea, so it's there atleast if they have already not thought of it

[vital fractal]

Current bottles 2 minutes

[hot vigil]

I know the engine can, it is more if the Hunt Showdown build can handle it haha, but true I should be more specific

[crystal plume]

Or well, if they can or can't will apply when it comes to resources

[vital fractal]

Oil maybe 4?

But is a consumable

[hot vigil]

Well, oil in the game last for.... dunno ever?

Well, not literally for ever

but longer than firebomb

[broken musk]

Yeah

[hot vigil]

So literally just make the urn that

[broken musk]

Oil bomb just sounds fun to play around with

[vital fractal]

Yeah for a consumable I think it would need to be longer than the 2 minutes a normal one lasts

But at the cost of a consum slot and need for ignition

Beyond just a normal bullet

[hot vigil]

Quick searches says it burns for 5 min which is fair

[broken musk]

Laughs in flare gun

[vital fractal]

Exactly

And 5 minutes seems fair

[broken musk]

Yes

[vital fractal]

Although since it is placeable

I would say just 4

Give environmental items the upper hand always

[hot vigil]

Concertina last forever

So eh

let it be 5 min

[vital fractal]

Concertina absolutely doesnt lmao

[hot vigil]

can still be choked

[vital fractal]

Some bolts or explosive and it’s gone in 3 seconds

No matter how many bombs they have

[hot vigil]

Yeah, but if untouched

[vital fractal]

That’s two different types of barrier

[crystal plume]

I kinda wish concertina had a decay timer tbh

[vital fractal]

Can’t compare it

[hot vigil]

so having fire that burns for 5 min, that can be removed with a choke doesn't seem bad

You can actually push thru a fire with no slowdown

[broken musk]

I generally think consumables and tools that can in someway alter the terrain and enviroment is just fun imo, though it has to be done right

[vital fractal]

You can’t run through a concertina

You can run through fire

[crystal plume]

1 strand breaks every 1-2 minutes from the tension or something like that

[vital fractal]

Lol no

Disagree with this

Just bring explosives to deal with it, ex

Ez

[crystal plume]

You won't always have them

[hot vigil]

Just make it more easy to melee again, it was an unneeded buff.

[broken musk]

Or just sacrifice some of ur hp to clear it

[crystal plume]

And I'm not gonna go back to a different compound for the chance of a tool box spawning there or it even giving one

Especially if we're holding a team in a compound

[hot vigil]

I'll add to the list of all the tools/throwables/shots I need to bring every match to counter anything problematic

[empty oasis]

Just go get a beetle
They're a guaranteed spawn and will clear a tina bomb

[crystal plume]

If we followed the "just bring X thing" logic all the time we would need to triple the hunter inventory

Let's throw in a trait for a 3rd weapon slot for good measure so you can also cover more ranges

[hot vigil]

Exactly my point
Again, concertina ain't the end of the world for me, actually is more concertina traps I feel holds back the design space for adding new traps.

[broken musk]

I'd love to see more traps, clever trap usage is so fun

Traps in general are just fun to play around with

[hot vigil]

I am weary about traps, it is feels fun to fuck people over.
But getting fucked over traps can sometimes feel anti-climatic

And I understand if that can be a frustration for a lot of players.

[broken musk]

Yeah that is true

[hot vigil]

But it is mostly the "kill combo" people tends to have issues with

[crystal plume]

For me the main worry with more traps is people combining them like they already do with concertina + poison yeah

[broken musk]

Yeah, today i accidentally ran into my duo's concertina + poison. I laughed hard, and died with bounty, while i ran way from a trio i knew i had close to zero chance against

[crystal plume]

I think they should just make it so that you can't place another trap right next to another one

That way they can focus on balance on individiual traps as well

[empty oasis]

Then poison traps are basically useless

[crystal plume]

Instead of having to consider the possibility of combinations

[hot vigil]

Mjaaah, it is mostly just concertina traps that is the issue, bc they completely stop a push. You cannot really go forward when you spring it, so even when you survive, it kinda just stops all momentum in the fight, bc you can't push in and the trapper can't push out.

[empty oasis]

You'd have to have the poison do a lot of damage and last a long time to be useful

[hot vigil]

If you are poisoned or burning you still have a choice to move forward.

Think it would be healthier that we had a "Shredder trap" that deals 30-50 damage and apply bleed, but no concertina.

But that is just fancy bear trap I guess

[empty oasis]

I think people mostly hate kill traps because it punishes you for not being cognizant of your surroundings.

It's not unfair, you just misplayed

I don't see how it's much different than a sniper camping an out in the open clue

[crystal plume]

Eh I disagree

For me it's a combination of the fact that I remember there being a statement when traps were introduced that they wouldn't make instakill traps, hence why there's no traps with straight up explosives, but people got around that by combining them

And the fact that when I'm in a fight, I look at my enemy that is generally shooting at me and that I am shooting back at, not my feet

[vital fractal]

Or

You can do both

[crystal plume]

I check for traps outside direct fights obviously

[vital fractal]

It’s a strat to corral players into your traps

[empty oasis]

You're still being outplayed if you go through where they set their trap. They judged that as the most likely avenue of attack and covered it. You then were predictable

Or baited

[hot vigil]

That is why I choose my words carefully, ofc it is a awareness check (except when you have them in tall grass where you just cannot see them), but as I said, they can feel anti-climatic to die too.

[crystal plume]

I'll just agree to disagree on that part 😄 And either way I still stand with my first point as well

[empty oasis]

Sure, but so does the solo 200m sniper

[crystal plume]

If you can create instakill traps, might as well add explosive traps, but they aren't adding them to not have instakill traps

Which is a bit circular to me

[vital fractal]

Nah, it’s a good investment as is

[hot vigil]

Well, I also don't want solos in my game, two wrongs doesn't make one right.

[vital fractal]

You put two traps together to get a powerful trap

Makes sense tbh

[empty oasis]

No but three lefts do 😂

[crystal plume]

Imo people should still have to pay attention to their traps and confirm the kill after someone steps into them instead of being able to afk and get kills, with the exception of alert tripmines on barrels of course since those are way more predictable and not really a problem

[vital fractal]

It’s a gamble though to run kill traps, especially in teams when you give up your chokes or your melee

It’s worth the investment and is fair for the investment

[hot vigil]

haw de harr harr :v
But yeah, like, traps is not a scourge upon the game. Honestly just the combo trap I might have issue with, red barrel traps are so sign posted it is skill issue.
Compared to combo trap right under a window still, those can be impossible to spot unless you have vigilant (that is the name right?).

[crystal plume]

At most I'd be giving away chokes and throwing axes

Both of which I and anyone else can deal with

[vital fractal]

Yup, vig- designed specifically to deal with this issue + even tells you what trap it is lmao

[vital fractal]

Which can be brutal at times without chokes

[crystal plume]

Brutal in what way

[empty oasis]

And it's 1pt

[crystal plume]

They're not a necessity

[hot vigil]

Yeah, just don't think any trait should feel super mandatory for single situation.
Tho I am gonna run it more often.

[vital fractal]

If you don’t think chokes are useful in a team setting as a back up for teammate issues then, idk man

[crystal plume]

I always bring them to save my teammates bars, but it's not like it's a necessity

[vital fractal]

It isn’t mandatory at all, just look before you go

[vital fractal]

No, but it’s a cost to trade for those traps

See, fair

Choose one or the other ex

Ez

[hot vigil]

Again, if you place the traps under the window still they are impossible to spot

And other vault points

[crystal plume]

[vital fractal]

Risk of not checking via other means

[hot vigil]

How do you check them in tall grass/bushes?

[empty oasis]

Or taking obvious routes

[crystal plume]

Just have vigilant and stay in darksight 24/7 duh

[hot vigil]

Sadly boss compounds are built in certain ways lmao

[vital fractal]

Look, since you can see them in the environment like grass and don’t take well trodden paths

Or vigilant exactly

[hot vigil]

You cannot see them tho

[empty oasis]

Sure but they have 2 traps, 3 with frontier, and there are multiple ways into compounds

[vital fractal]

Oof, then you fell for a well placed trap… almost like that’s the point of camoing them

[hot vigil]

Nevertheless, the fact that we have kill traps, despite Crytek stating there shouldn't, should not be defended lmao

[empty oasis]

No, we don't have kill traps. We have combo traps. Either by itself won't kill

[vital fractal]

I mean it takes two tool slots and thinking to use so- it’s fair

[crystal plume]

For all I care they can buff the traps individually to be slightly stronger, if they can't be placed together

[hot vigil]

So also think it was stupid to nerf dolch, avto and nitro?

[crystal plume]

Make poison trap last longer, make concertina do slightly more damage, idc

[hot vigil]

And long ammo

[crystal plume]

As long as it doesn't instakill me

[vital fractal]

Wasn’t here for those nerfs so I can’t say

Except avto

[hot vigil]

They are lethal enough that if you are unlucky, you cannot get out in time bc the concertina have blocked you off in an unfortunate way.

[vital fractal]

Avto nerf honestly, it was a meme- most players are more likely to kill using levering or fanning but of course the 6 stars got Butt hurt and complained so it got nerfed

A majority of the community can’t handle an Avto to true effectiveness beyond an inaccurate shotgun in their hands

[hot vigil]

Just to point out, those weapons were balanced around "investment (of money)", but it turns out it doesn't feel good/fun/fair to get blasted cheaply bc "someone invested a lot".

[empty oasis]

That's a little disingenuous. Those were a much bigger and more prevalent problem than the trap combo

[vital fractal]

Neither does levering or fanning or vigor/regen or doctor/physician but here we are

[crystal plume]

DaGrog I mean no offense by this, but you are on xbox and have to realize the differences between that and PC as a baseline

[hot vigil]

That is flawed once again, juse because it ain't a widespread issue, still doesn't undermine the issue.

[vital fractal]

That’s between Crytek making the mistake of not separating it, not me

Again, Console is the reason explosive ammo is trash and I can never forgive my people for that

[empty oasis]

There was no counter to those weapons and there still isn't really. You can easily counter traps

[hot vigil]

You can counter if you see them yes and there is a very good trait for that.

I agree

But still think it wont hurt making them tools and not weapons.

more leaning towards tools*

And most of all, I just want concertina to be nerfed a little bc it holds back cool trap designs

[vital fractal]

It really doesn’t though that’s a cop out

Nothing is stopping a Rotjaw mine

[hot vigil]

NONONONO

Okay

[vital fractal]

Nothing is stopping a mini Frag trap that isn’t insta kill but applies bleed

[hot vigil]

Imagine, no stamina + concertina trap

you are basically dead then

[empty oasis]

How so?

[crystal plume]

Yeah that's why we need to stop allowing people to combo them

[vital fractal]

Yeah, wow two traps work better than one together lmao

[crystal plume]

[vital fractal]

Or, look and check before you go in if you’re so worried

Choke bomb, explosive ammo, vig, etc etc

[hot vigil]

Because traps shouldn't be a free kills. That is literally the design philosophy of the tool.

[crystal plume]

If only humans were so clairvoyant

But alas

[vital fractal]

They aren’t, they are well placed tools that when combined and strategically used lead to a kill- that’s earned

[vital fractal]

Exactly, risk in hunt? Who would’ve thought

[hot vigil]

And that is where I disagree that is much "earned" about plucking down two traps ontop of each other and hope you are lucky.

Getting sniped from 200m is more earned than that

[vital fractal]

You could do that, or learn where people walk and put it down lmao

[hot vigil]

I know, but even so, there are many factors of where people walk

So at the end of the day it is a gamble

Unless you can herd people in certain directions, which I've done myself.

Literally only the concertina trap that is the issue.
Bc no matter what other trap you think up on, the question is gonna be "would this be better to combine with the concertina trap than poison".
Which is an indicator that it is in a unhealthy state.

[broken musk]

A potential way that might not be the best way, but its a way is: You can only have one trap tool in a loadout, yes u can still do concertina and poison but then you'd have to do it with a team.

[hot vigil]

That would never fly with the community, usually solos that runs trap combos lmao

[broken musk]

Exactly why i said not the best way to fix it

[hot vigil]

(in my experience)

[empty oasis]

Look at any trap you think up on, the question is gonna be "would this be better to combine with the alert trip than a barrel"

Which is a indicator that's it's in an unhealthy state

[hot vigil]

So as I said, red barrel traps is not an issue even tho they are kill traps, because they are literally a red warning sign in the landscape.
On top of that, they randomly placed, so even if you get them, they might be placed in non-critical locations.

And on top of that bad strawman, bc they are not a trap combo

[empty oasis]

I see every window and doorway as the equivalent to a red barrel. To be approached with caution or not at all

I don't see how you can think that red barrels aren't a trap. They control movement, must be cleared to safely pass, and can be used or set off on a variety of ways

[broken musk]

(In my experience) in 3-4 star lobbies i rarely ever see concertina + poison traps

[broken musk]

I really like them, cause they are an enviromental hazard, and i want more like that in the hunt, that reward clever timing and usage of your enviroment

[empty oasis]

You just described the tina combo in my eyes as well

[broken musk]

Yeah but those are placable

Red barrels are map based

Well put randomly into maps

[empty oasis]

I think red barrels should be movable but I'm in the minority there

[hot vigil]

They are a trap, but they are also big bulky red barrels, rule of thumb should be you stand as far away from them at all times.
You cannot really miss them in the landscape.
Look in this video how I manage to stop in time, bc I saw the barrel was up ahead.

(ofc my friend is new to the game, so didn't work)

[hot vigil]

Exactly my point.

[empty oasis]

As are the windows, doors, and choke points in a compound

[broken musk]

Yes but barrels are randomly placed, windows and doors arent?

[empty oasis]

A combo trap out in the open is rarely if ever gonna get someone

[broken musk]

I only have 200 hrs in hunt so i might be wrong on things

[hot vigil]

you aren't

[hot vigil]

Yes, so that is the thing it is kill trap on demand
Barrel traps needs to take the factor of a barrel spawning in at relevant spot and even so, I cannot think of a single red barrel trap that can be triggered by vaulting into it.

Combo traps can be hidden away in bushes and under windows, making them impossible to spot.

[broken musk]

Also red barrels have some fun memories, of me or my duo accidentally lighting one up and we both dying, espceially early on when we started playing

Or an immolator ran into it

[empty oasis]

Again, in that case you're being outplayed though

They had a well placed trap and you fell for it

[hot vigil]

"falling for it" dunno man, sometimes you just need to push and you pick a window lmao

[empty oasis]

And you picked the wrong one

[hot vigil]

That ain't falling for anything nor being outplayed

[broken musk]

Well placed, well that can be argued with. Most people place in the same type of spots.

[hot vigil]

it is them being lucky

[empty oasis]

Most people jump through the same windows

[hot vigil]

Again, just give us choke traps, flash traps, sharpnel traps and remove concertina.

things would be fine

[broken musk]

Before flash traps can be added i feel like the flash bomb we have now needs to fixed

[hot vigil]

Bc those windows have good sightlines to get up to and good sightlines to push into. Sadly not every entrance in a compound is balanced.

[broken musk]

Cause there is little to no counterplay against flash bombs

[hot vigil]

Well, I mean, if you see the person triggering the trap, then also get flashed I guess lol

But yeah fix flash

[broken musk]

True

Choke traps do sound fun

My most wanted feature is probably a weapon inspect feature, since you do alot of waiting and running in Hunt, and there are so many cool skins that suffer from the fact that you cant see them fully in game.

Just a minor feature, that could add alot of flavor.

If i am going to run from one point to the end of the map to extract, i'd like to admire my skin

[hot vigil]

Toggle forward pls

But yeah weapon inspection would be fine for me.

don't really care

but also understand why peopel wanna look

[broken musk]

Yeah, it's optional and purely cosmetic

Like, there are many pistol skins, that have awesome handles that you cant see

You have wolfsbane skin for lebel, but u cant see the wolf head engraving at the start of the gun that looks so sick

It's a small but a cosmetically impactful feature, and atleast to me i would have a higher incentive to buy skins

And they don't have to be insane animations, like valorant or cs go karambit knives, but very simple animations that you can cancel as well

[vital fractal]

Ruiz Mala looks like the halo flood or last of us fungus infected a pistol, I’m all for it

[crystal plume]

I want inspect as well but with a side of rare inspect animations and/or unique inspect animations for some skins

[broken musk]

That would be sick

[broken musk]

Yeah

But ive already suggested that feature to the suggestions channel here and sent a suggestion ticket to crytek

On the dev side, crytek would get higher revenues from skins im farily certain

So, when you think about it, a + for the consumer and + for the developers

[vital fractal]

I need some deadlier ai tho fr

The grunts need a buff, the specials need a buff- let’s make this interesting

[crystal plume]

I mean it's not always so simple 😄 There's a lot of guns in Hunt with different hand positions and such so dedicating animations for those is still a decision that has it's ups and downs

[vital fractal]

In lore the monsters are terrifyingly lethal

In game, they are walking med kits

[broken musk]

Yeah, there is a bunch effort and animations for the devs to make

But i just think it would generally have a cosmetically positive impact, and i don't see why not from a dev standpoint, that you can earn more from people buying skins

And, weapon inspect feature, is only for you and only you, it does not do anything to other players, it's purely comsetic on your side

[broken musk]

But in the long run, i'd like to think it would be worth it, but again i am no dev, or game designer, i am just a guy who enjoys Hunt.

[clever wing]

https://youtu.be/9uHndeF2f5U?si=g91h12DuQ1YzPfQs

[knotty ore]

Has rain been permanently removed from normal queue yet? Just need to know if game is playable again.

[wanton imp]

its still there just not as common as it was in the event

[knotty ore]

I am like so close to just uninstalling every time I have to play that awful map

[oak plaza]

Just leave mission before it says "hunt". You keep your hunter and you dont have to play in the rain.

[empty oasis]

I take it that you weren't around before the matchmaking was implemented. It used to be a free for all where you were just put into a match. Sometimes you had a good match but more often one team would just steamroll the server

I'm not saying the mmr system is perfect (far from it, qp needs to be separate and I think that self rez shouldn't affect mmr after the first down) but it's better than nothing. With the size of the playerbase, you'd end up with a lot of empty lobbies if you locked it down harder

#game-ideas message

I wouldn't make it a throwable but maybe a placed lure that slowly attracts mobs?

It would let you block off areas with ai

[vital fractal]

This is rather pessimistic,

It’s clear that the current MMR system is failing to uphold proper balancing via a myriad of ways of which a lack of stability and proper placement are two-

Yes, a MMR system is better than literally none (or any matchmaking system) but if one is implemented, as it is now, it’s not unreasonable for expectations for it to be well adjusted and performing. The current MMR system is not, and as such- leads to situations like linked by the other that are not so common, and completely go against the spirit of the system.

I understand the want to always go against full lobbies but at the same time, such volatility in the system allowing people who would be 6 stars usually dipping into 3 and 4 star lobbies rather easily means that the system is failing to do its job thus needs a rework- as a 3 star should never have to fight a 6 star, and a 6 star player has the skills to not have to dip that far on average game play-

Also, yeah hunt doesn’t pull warzone levels of players but it’s no where as small as it was 3 years ago from the info I gathered- and such unfairness can work to push newcomers away, “40%” or so and all…

[karmic ivy]

I don't think its as clear as you claim.

I would even argue the matchmaking system is clearly one of the better, well functioning systems I have seen.

[little jackal]

Empty lobbies is such a bs argument because they consciously and intentionally removed the ultimate solution to that: opt-in non-fair matchmaking. They don't care about empty lobbies; they care about empty 6 star lobbies. Or at least their actions speak clear on that.

[vital fractal]

Considering the amount of photo evidence that gets posted of a team such as 4/4/3 or 5/4/3 going against 5/5/6 or 6/6/5 I think it’s safe to say my point about rather loose parameters in place isn’t in bad faith neither is how volatile the MMR system is as evidenced by how easy it can be to move down stars, again acknowledged by most of the community 👁👁

[karmic ivy]

You are making assumptions about how it is intended to work. Almost like you don't even realize it.

[vital fractal]

I am making assumptions that a class based matchmaking system is supposed to match make based on those classes and any other custom parameters applied?

[karmic ivy]

Yes, as I said... assumptions.

[vital fractal]

Please, lay it out for me then-

[karmic ivy]

It is crytek's system mate. Not mine.

[vital fractal]

This MMR system is a little vague, so- if you can place some clarity on it, then do so.

[vital fractal]

So you’re going to say I’m wrong in my perception of the system, then not explain how or why I am wrong?

I’m not even antagonizing you, I’m asking how does it work if I’m wrong.

Also

Even if we knew exactly how it worked, looking at the algorithmic output in the form of the matches made- it’s still fair to say that it needs adjustments.

I don’t have to be a mechanic with a specialty in waveforms to understand that the ride of a car is too rough or to have the ability to critique end product usage, especially if I am using that product and I am also offering potential usable feedback to those who are responsible for development.

To say so is to say the end product user shouldn’t ever give feedback which is ridiculous

[karmic ivy]

But you don't even know if it is currently meeting the goals set for it lol

You are assuming it is not.

Now I agree it could use a little tweaking here and there. But lets not assume too much...

[vital fractal]

That isn’t being discussed, what is- is whether the community is happy with it or not, which I’m seeing and experiencing that there is a distinct group that isn’t.

The goal of the MMR system can be simply that it exists, and that can be discussed whether that’s adequate or not.

[karmic ivy]

There always will be a group that likes it and a group that does not. David himself said that is part of the deal. You don't get away from that... You realize that yes?

[vital fractal]

Yes, I understand basic perspectives in groups when it comes to a topic.

That doesn’t mean advocacy for either shouldn’t exist.

I also understand there’s nuance to that statement too.

Eitherway, the MMR system obviously needs tweaks as you even admitted, and that’s the point I’m saying originally.

We can all say to what extent individually but it needs some sort of revaluing.

[karmic ivy]

admitted... rofl
if you say so...

[vital fractal]

[karmic ivy]

Agree... Admit... whats the difference? right?

[broken musk]

@grave bough Bomb lance is fine as it is. It's quite litteraly a big glaive/bladed staff, of course it's going to one shot you in melee

[unborn smelt]

If melee weapons (as in weapon slot) didn't OHK they'd be straight garbage

[little jackal]

cough railroad hammer cough

[unborn smelt]

and melee already has a hard time competing with any actual firearm - because you can just have a bayonet on many firearms which casually adds the one main advantage of melee to a nearly full power firearms

[unborn smelt]

It does OHK - just not very reliably

🤣

[steel comet]

It should do that. It contests 2 weapons slots that could better fit firearms.

[unborn smelt]

firearms that potentially also OHK in melee mind you...

[tight maple]

dunno why it is worse than the sledge, really

still, it's fun at least

[hardy coral]

Weapon slot melees are just bad, can't really make them good tbh.

[jagged wagon]

The sabre is fine in 4 mmr and below, and the bomb lance with steel balls is also ok in that bracket, everything else is a fun meme.

[deep peak]

a shot to the chest with a lebel doesnt one shot, so i dont see why a glaive should do it upclose

[broken musk]

Well the bomb lance takes a whole large slot and is more or less a melee weapon, with explosives

And the lebel has more versatility, and range

And with the bomb lance you have to be in your enemy's face to one shot with melee

If you get killed by a bomb lance up close by melee, that is partially your fault.

And like the others here mentioned, you have bayonet's, which also can oneshot

[queen jungle]

@waxen quail It's not self-explanatory, please add a detailed description to your suggestion explaining what it is you want and why others should support your idea.

[tiny cobalt]

@craggy pike , regarding your suggestion about the bomblance skin, it does seem like an interesting look for the bomblance, but I am confused as to how it would shoot projectiles.

[craggy pike]

They could slap the bolt thrower on the side

[knotty ore]

Yeah I'd rather just not play till rain is separated into a contract no one is going to play willingly.

[oak plaza]

ye fair, in 3 of my rain matches on EU today ppl left and it was just my team and another xD I think thats saying something

[waxen quail]

Region locking is self explanatory as it is what it states, locking regions. but at your request I have added to the description

[late quartz]

@broken musk #game-ideas message

This already exists. Click on the orange plus symbol indicating you have something new in a tab. This lets you dismiss the notification and claim all rewards.

[broken musk]

Thank you

[analog willow]

@narrow elk If that is the closest available matchup, the alternative is an emptier game unfortunately. Just gotta get more people playing! It's a great game!

[vital fractal]

That’s worth it

[glass shuttle]

I'm assuming the only people thumbing down banning the use of Crosshair overlays are the people who use it... Weak dorgs

[vital fractal]

I’d rather fight a single team that is on my skill level than 2 teams that are clearly not

I don’t like bullying 2 stars but I also don’t like being bullied by 6 stars

[trail oasis]

Its like the reshade question. When it come to ban reshade 99% of the playerbase become mysteriously color blind

Theres a huge % of player that will fight hard to keep having unfair advantage against other cuz they suck and cant accept being on the same level than others

[hot vigil]

Think it is more the issue that stopping crosshair usage is near impossible due to many monitors comes with a feature akin to it.

[glass shuttle]

But with the monitor one can you even move it's position? Coz if it's central it's not going to help you

[hot vigil]

Depends on brand

[glass shuttle]

Ah k

[hot vigil]

My monitor only have a static center one

[glass shuttle]

Yeah same and I tested it out on apex
It allows you to just spam the wing man without using iron sights so it's pretty strong

[hot vigil]

Yeah

I would love for people just having good sportsmanship

but it is we talkin' about here

[glass shuttle]

Yeah no integrity

[analog willow]

@keen flicker Pressing "Shift" + "Enter/Return" will allow you to start a line of typing. Minor formatting issue on your post in #game-ideas

[keen flicker]

Yeah but what about console players, plus it would be much much easier just to have voice chat in lobby menu

[analog willow]

I meant, in your suggestion, you can press "Shift" + "Enter/Return" instead of pressing "Space" a bunch of times

[granite fern]

Can we add wildcard back in the game its literally a win win.

oh you like rain and night but never get it ok here you get extra points for playing it and can choose

oh you fucking hate rain and night ok you can play standard but you wont get extra bb's but you also dont have to leave everytime you get rain/night

WHAT THE FUCK IS THE HOLD UP HERE CRYTEK

[analog willow]

Splitting the queues in two creates matches with greater difference in player skill, emptier matches, and higher ping

[vital fractal]

How about a queue where it’s automatically selected where 6 stars play amongst themselves and the rest of people who actually touch grass and refer to women as something other than “females” can enjoy the game in a separate queue 👁👁

[trail oasis]

Last night i was solo on a rain map killed both bosses and extracted then Looked at team stats... There were a full session of like 6 team but they all extracted at start... At this point its just shooting rain haters to their legs in order to have fake balanced matched wich endup empty. Imo setting preference is mendatory. Not another wildcard just mark and unmark desired weather/time of day and having increased queue time according to it. It just gonna hurt peoples who want specific settings and the biggest part of playerbase will just see more steady game and no more game with half of team leaving

I hate having empty session cuz of it. Most of rain at very late us east hour are empty

[hot vigil]

You think it like people could set "do not prefer" to a map type and the game would give a slightly modifier to mitigate?

[trail oasis]

No need modifier or any rewars tbh. Just making map haters not forced to extract and queue again so we all can have real full lobby is a good enough incentitive

[hot vigil]

Yeah I agree.

Dunno, extract only popping up after banishment is started have always been my fav suggestion

[trail oasis]

That would make night and rain hater mostly getting pissed and stop playing tbh

[hot vigil]

And ofc not being able to leave in the "waiting for other players" screen

[hot vigil]

Well, they are not playing anyways

[trail oasis]

I alwayd look at teams details. And you would be stunned about the % of leavers on night and rain maps. That should not be a thing

If they can choose well having extraction restriction would be great

Would force ppl to do so move and not just wait

[hot vigil]

Yeah

[trail oasis]

Better work on what ppl want instead of working on restricting their option and burn them of the game. It would be way better for getting a steady increasing playerbase

[hot vigil]

Dunno, feel like there is also just a baseline of understanding the game you play

[trail oasis]

Ima be honest. I loved rain at start but now everytime i see rain map i just getting pissed cuz i am fed up of it. But still play all of them. Would rly love to have the option so skip it after having a couple of rain game and i cant stand it anymore

[hot vigil]

Honestly rain could be fixed by adjusting the ratio of thunderstom frequency and duration.

Like make it more 80:20 ratio.

[late quartz]

I'm super curious, to all the rain haters, would you play a contract that guarantees high-vis time of day but gives 1/3~1/2 the bounty of a normal contract?

[unborn dagger]

Seriously it was working out fine until crytek just removed it

[late quartz]

Personally, I don't see wanting a contract without rain as very different from wanting a contract where you only play on your favorite map.
I have a feeling most people would not be in favor of adding contracts for specific maps, that we'd say part of the game is learning to play all 3 maps. Time of day and weather conditions seem the same way to me personally.

[unborn dagger]

Crytek's game logic about Hunt is adapting to the game's environments, weather types, and the weapons you bring in. But then you have the community wanting day time the ENTIRE TIME and leaving whenever any other weather effect is present. And to top that all off Crytek is practically reducing every other weather effect to 1%.

[late quartz]

Seems like the reasonable thing to do would be discourage players from dipping out of matches then, no?

tbqh, I'm also not sure if it's "the community" or a vocal minority. I haven't seen any good polls done about it as of yet.

Could be wrong, it may be a majority, but that isn't the sense I've gotten from my interpersonal interactions. It seems like for people who don't like rain or night, it completely ruins their experience and so they're likely to pitch an extra large fit about it

Which isn't necessarily unreasonable... I Just don't get it personally

[vital fractal]

want rain
is told rain won’t happen
sad
updates tease rain
happy
actually great storm rain
”NO NOT LIKE THAT”

Like guys, just fight in the bad weather it fits the vibe- I’m waiting for a night time hurricane during the inferno let’s goooo crytek let’s make it happen

[hot vigil]

Eh, I can understand there are aspects of the game people don't feel like "real hunt".
Heck I have a lot of them I would prefer to be without to enjoy hunt even more.
I can see how rain can substract from certain qualities that people enjoy hunt for.

[trail oasis]

I think mostly its people like me who played a looot during event and been fed up of constant raining and just cannot stand it anymore. Its the reason i polled to stop making event weather be on 50% of game it just burn the community and now peoples are fed up anf cant stand it anymore

[crystal plume]

I have my doubts about rain affecting people that much 😄

[trail oasis]

I do have loved rain the first 2 week but now when i get rain i get agressive and pissed. Just saying

[deep peak]

Fix matchmaking, redo some of the dmg numbers on certain weapons since "it totally makes sense a bowshot kills you but a long ammo shot to the upper chest does not

[unborn dagger]

Because balancing is more important than realism. Lol bows can one shot to the chest at close range because it has terrible muzzle velocity and no penetration. Long ammo has high penetration, high damage, and high velocity

[unborn dagger]

That's what I'm thinking but i just don't know how they'd discourage it. Maybe lose some of your cash to extract without a bounty?

[late quartz]

Adjusting bounty payouts is probably the easiest way

[late quartz]

That's why I ask this question

How much is not getting rain worth to people

It's not practical to split queues up between the two, as much as people like to huff copium and suggest that there's some huge burst in popularity around the corner that'll bring in so many players that queue times wont be a reasonable concern

[little carbon]

You can't adjust bounty payout generally, that would just lead to these kind of people still playing the random queue and extracting Wildcard matches so they get better rewards.

What could work is having 2 queues, one with only high visibility (daytime and it's variations) and the other fully random. And the bounty in the fully random mode is worth more when it's a wildcard match. This way playing random contract but extracting on low visibility will not be useful at all and the people that do play all weather types do get more bounty on average.

[late quartz]

I don't see how the latter would lead to higher population density in the wildcard queue

At the end of the day, people extracting out of a match and a match starting without 12 people have the same effect

Splitting queue means more empty matches which is no more or less preferable for match quality than having people extract early.

It's preferable for the people who are leaving, but tbh they're probably not the people who ought to be catered to primarily

But, regardless, the reason I'm asking about a broad adjustment to the payout is because I assume we WANT people to queue wildcard.
The point is to give the most sensitive players an option to only play daytime maps, but heavily systemically encourage them to get over it and play wildcard instead.

This would allow people who really can't cope some outlet without majorly detracting from the primary player pool and harming queue times.

[steady prism]

as a non-american.. is there something i am missing? is "female" somehow an offensive word now?

[oak plaza]

Anyone discussed this already? #game-ideas message

[oak plaza]

Wait but I touch grass and am a 6 star T-T man did me dirty

[steady prism]

do you at least call women "females"?

[oak plaza]

What is this question even xD and no

[steady prism]

then u gotta drop down to 5-star... those are the rules... you heard the man

[oak plaza]

Unless we are talking in biology than it’s the female and male body and so on anyway that’s off topic 👀

[steady prism]

considering what the dude said, 6-stars are for incels only... what you thought just being good in a game will grant you the priviledge to be a 6-star?

[oak plaza]

I guess I’m just a incel

[steady prism]

prove it... go post something sexist on reddit and take a screenshot, so we can validate your incel membership /s

[tawny meadow]

Ooook we can now move to another topic, ok?

[oak plaza]

Thoughts on this? I get that some people belive ping is a issue but I have a feeling most ppl dont understand how it works?

[crystal plume]

[analog nimbus]

Can't you just not play over a certain ping in certain servers?

[oak plaza]

ya its at around 200 I think but you can get around it with a VPN. I will say playing on high ping (anything above 180) is painful. Did it in the shooting range (played on the OC servers) and the delay is insane but it was more painful for me than a friend soooo ya.

[crystal plume]

225

[analog nimbus]

That is.. Kind of a lock I guess.. On ping?

[unborn smelt]

The way it works afaik, is you can choose any server with lower than 225 ping - or if you have a ping of 225+ everywhere it auto selects the lowest ping region

And the server automatically invalidates info older than 800ms so there's kind of a hardcap at 1600 ping

Not sure at what ping it boots you from a server tho

[granite fern]

the thing is yeah it doesnt really impact how well i do still manage to stay high 5star, but i would prefer NOT to play in rain 90% of the time, and there is no drawback to the playerbase bringing wildcard back. What sold me on the game was how important sound was i really found that interesting and i never really like fps games until now, but its annoying hearing rain go BRRRRRRR all the time. Hunt did everything right in mho. Let me be clear tho when the event started and i had the option to play rain i did it and enjoyed it everytime.

@late quartz yes i would, but it would make more sense to have the wildcard give double bounty

@late quartz "I haven't seen any good polls done about it as of yet. " - I think we should do a poll, but i would like to say regardless it would literally not hinder anyone. standard is standard reward and wildcard is bonus reward which i can choose to play and having the option to do something is the best.

[flat sandal]

Still all the same topics i see 😄

Wildcards haven't been back yet?

[winter plover]

Wildcards aren't back yet.

I think it was the best solution though. I never had issues queuing normal contracts. Wildcards contracts have been full nearly all the time, despite less populated 6* brackets. Only at the quiet hours it sometimes wasn't full.

If nobody is queuing the wildcard contracts the majority of players doesn't seem to enjoy it as much as some do.

I think increasing the queue time for wildcards from 3 to 5 minutes or sth like that and adding incentive to play the wildcard by increasing the rewards could work.

But honestly without the insights into statistics regarding player counts all of that is nothing but speculation.

[radiant mango]

I wanted to say something regarding the suggestion of increasing the MMR stars from 6 to 10. It was explained in the suggestion that the gaps between the stars (given 6 star system) might not be big enough and by increasing it to 10 would improve the matchmaking. But this suggestion ignores the fact that the stars are only an ordinal scale reducing the actual MMR ratings (which are in fact an interval scale producing a bell curve distribution roughly of 1 - 3000 MMR) down into arbitrary categories. Increasing the stars would just result in increasing the amount categories (decreasing the gaps between stars) and leaps between stars would happen even faster.

from a test theoretical approach -> discussions about MMR should be more like: what does MMR measure? does it measure fair? is its value one-dimensional (meaning does more than 1 factor go into its value)?

But given the circumstances (how Hunt: Showdown works) it is impossible to design a MMR system which does measure "skill" fairly

just as a thought experiment: next time you kill somebody in game -> ask yourself, how many factors were involved in this task - map knowledge, patients, accuracy, luck, the quality of your headset, playtime, focus, team mates, loadout etc. etc.

and this multiple times per round

to condense this into an accurate MMR rating is quite difficult

[winter plover]

Yeah the suggestion ignored the fact that there's a much more precise ELO number and the stars only represent some ranges of that value. People don't know that.
His suggestion would just mean to reduce the ELO value difference between players who are matched against each other. Which would probably work, but makes it difficult because of hunts player population.
Plus they just recently widened the gap to speed up matchmaking and reduce empty lobbies

[knotty ore]

It should boot anyone with over 100 ping, but that would ruin the fun of so many cross-region exploiters.

[dull mason]

Ah yes, another overly dramatic response to an uncommon but annoying issue

[knotty ore]

Ah yes, just another undermining response by someone not affected by the issue. Depends on the server. Its actually very common for some.

[late quartz]

yes i would, but it would make more sense to have the wildcard give double bounty
I don't really want to PUNISH anybody for playing in a way that gives them the best experience, and in a perfect world I'd agree, but one of Hunt's longest standing "problems" (if you can call it that) is Cryteks struggle to balance the economy of the game.

The amount of money an average player can be expected to earn on an average hunt is no doubt factored into how weapon pricing is done. In that context, it doesn't really make as much sense to simply increase the reward for playing wildcard. The rewards right now are almost certainly a central factor in the huge slew of prices changes we've been seeing over the last ~2 years. To suddenly increase the amount of income an average player can earn simply through their willingness to play the game as is currently intended most likely wouldn't come without major consequences.

[dull mason]

Fair enough, which region are you in that it effects you more often? And in what way are you affected by it?

[karmic ivy]

@junior pike I have found that games with two US servers have much more stable and adequate populations on both.

Compared to games with three US servers. East and Central do ok, but West Coast dies due to lack of gamer density? (is my guess).

For this reason, i think it is best the way it is.

[junior pike]

I have friends in the east and I’m in the west. I have noticed major ping issues when playing on east (up to 100ms) same with my friends who play on my west servers. Having a server in the middle will make the ping somewhat equivalent so both sides can meet in the middle. Aka less delay between the server and the player.

[karmic ivy]

It has been my experience that central and east coast servers have a similar latency of at least 100ms. For some reson, when I have seen three, I have not seen the central server be halfway between west and east in ping time.

But my motivation to like two servers is population density it is just sad to see games with no west coast pop. or very little.

[granite fern]

I dont really see the correlation tbh, couldnt people just take less expensive loadouts? Could you elaborate a lil more?

[rotund obsidian]

@wicked quiver #game-ideas message 💀 literally why

[wicked quiver]

spite

[late quartz]

Crytek wants to make weapon cost a big part of balance, they justify weapons being stronger than others with cost.

The cost of expensive weapons is tuned around the reward you get from extracting a bounty token.

Increasing the amount players get from wildcard would disrupt the existing balance of the economy (which already isn't doing a great job as it stands).

Crytek seems to want players to play wildcard, they want players to engage with all times of day and weather effects. For all intents and purposes it is the "standard mode" for hunt. The economy should probably be balanced around the "standard mode"

If they wanted to increase the reward for playing on rain/night etc they'd most likely need to increase weapon prices to match that, since it seems like crytek wants to balance the games economy around wildcard

[junior pike]

Yeah I use to play valorant before I found this amazing game. I would play on central servers with my friends. Now those same friends we have a slight annoyance playing with 100ms and sometimes under preform because of ping.

[novel vigil]

can you guyz bring in game friend adding? Like in dark and darker. So we dont have to add random ppl on Steam and full our friend list with ppl we will play only 1 time and never see each other again

and make the game more playable for ppl who play with randoms. Like we should communicate even we're far away from each other. Teams can do that with Discord. They have advantage. Make the game more playable for Asocial ppl like me

tenkyu

[junior pike]

@broken musk i too believe that the prestige system is underwhelming. I like the free skins however i think there should be better options that permanently change your account. Like a 1% xp boost per prestige or to keep a weapon of your choice in your arsenal so you don’t have to grind to unlock it. Prestige should be infinite although I think the xp boost should be capped at 100%

[broken musk]

Yeah i totally agree with you

You brought up some good ideas

[hot vigil]

WEAPON Exp boost :b
Then yes.

[junior pike]

I mean whatever the devs decide is healthier for the game. I personally just want to be able to use the guns I like every time I prestige. There also needs to be an incentive to grind for the next prestige. Not just a number or a free skin.

[rotund obsidian]

should really just be more skins tied to the prestige system tbh

[hot vigil]

Well, prestige still need to have the essence of well... prestiging.
So it makes sense that you get put back to square 1. That is what you sign up for.
Just now the system is very bloated that you only get to play a very select few weapons and playstyles.

[junior pike]

Yeah it’s really all around metas

[hot vigil]

What?

[junior pike]

Like the meta for what guns are popular

So sometimes prestige can make you feel underpowered in higher star lobbies

However like you stated it’s what you signed up for

[hot vigil]

Eh, again, that is what you sign up for.

[junior pike]

I mean it’s not like you cant do good with booboo weapons in 4-6 star lobbies

[hot vigil]

The issue is more you have certain weapons that are more fun with certain variants, so I might not be bothered unlocking the weapon at a later rank, just that I hardly get to play with a certain variant before I'm rank 100 again.

Or just feeling you have to grind out some weapons to be able to do weekly challenges.

[rotund obsidian]

They could always do something like the payday 2 infamy pool, although probably a pretty hefty increase in xp required compared to payday

[hot vigil]

Eh, just give me a 1% weapon modifier pr. Prestige level.
OR make special ammo a separate unlock alongside variants.

[late quartz]

Bare minimum, all special ammo types should be unlocked immediately if you've already unlocked them once

Special ammo is a system that was added on top of existing weapon unlocks and the prestige system, latter systems were never designed or tuned around special ammo

The prestige system as a whole sort of... doesn't make that much sense in Hunt as feels like a vestigial relic of the past more than some core system

Rethinking basic assumptions like "all your shit gets removed when you prestige" is probably necessary to turn it into something interesting and engaging.

One of those basic assumptions is the way unlocks work at a core level.

Does it make sense to have unlocks in a linear level-by-level path? Would the unlock system be more interesting and rewarding if it were more of a branching tree of unlocks rather than a linear one?
I think turning it into more of an RPG-lite system would make it far more interesting than it is now. As it currently works, prestiging isn't a challenge, it's not difficult to play with low BLR guns, it's just boring and sucks the life and variety out of the game

[hot vigil]

Dunno, starting over can be fun.
And you just do it for free skins.
And dunno, whenever you give control to "choose" it just mean people will optimize the fun out of it.

[late quartz]

I don't think many people think it's fun as it stands

[hot vigil]

"Oh can we get prestige tokens?", so they can keep playing Mosin?

[late quartz]

Starting over COULD BE fun, but as it stands it's not

Because the unlock system is not interesting or engaging

If you prestige often, you will be using the same weapons in the same order every time

It's not like every prestige is some new experience

[hot vigil]

Yes and no. It is more now, bc BB gain is tied to challenges.
But before that you could roll more whatever loadout you wanted. Same when our pool of weapons and variant weren't bloated.

[late quartz]

I'm not following

Rephrase a bit? How odes BB gain play into this?

[granite fern]

ah i see, we could do:

1 - No bonus incentive to play wildcard other than not being forced to play on map you dont want to
2 - Different incentive like BBs or xtra XP

I dont think it will make that huge of a difference on the economy honestly. I could be wrong though. i do feel like either of the choices i gave will fix it.

[broken musk]

fr

[broken musk]

I love the aspect of starting over, its a challenge that is fun forces you to use starting weapons and gear

[hot vigil]

Well, old BB earnings was just done by playing the game.
Now as they tied to challenges I need to have an arsenal of weapons at the ready to get my weekly BB.
So I almost always grind out the Nagant Pistol at the beginning of my prestige bc it is the easiest weapon for kill X with poison. Then when that is locked in, I'll look for a good shotgun, usually Romero too, to cover any shotgun ammo quest, ect. ect.
I don't even think "what do I wanna play, but what do I HAVE to play for weeklies".

[broken musk]

I just wish the start over, was justified and fair, which it kinda is not right now, especially in long term prestiging

You get less and less the higher prestige you are

So in a way you get punished for prestiging higher than 5, though i get why on skinswise

I think they should have some prestige unique charms, perhaps a hunter at higher prestige levels, and some exclusive prestige skins, though some people might be mad at that, if they want it they are forced to prestige

[late quartz]

I feel like this supports what I said for the most part.

Before you'd play the meta weapons along the BLR progression path, now you may still do that, or you may min/max your unlock for broad strokes weapons to do as many challenges as possible

In both cases you're left with a rigid path rather than an interesting challenge

[hot vigil]

Well, the thing is I never played meta weapons, even before I started prestige grind lmao

[late quartz]

I'm not really sure what to say to that

If you want to get P100, you're most likely not having some wildly unique experience every time. In the first like 5~10 goes you'll figure out what weapons work for you at each stage of the process and use those in a linear progression until you're ready to reset

Prestiging is only a "fresh" experience for people who are meta slaves at BLR 100 and need some external force to push them off of their mosin

[rotund obsidian]

I already don't care enough to do the weeklies, I definitely wouldn't be doing them while prestiging.

[granite fern]

I also dont do weeklys but i do switch up each prestige everytime like an all knife prestige, an all winny, only silenced vetterli fmj, bayonet kills only. it makes it fun. also, i do agree with whoever said more skins each prestige that would be dope. furthermore, the incentive to prestige is the exclusive skin and that is cool if you dont think its worth it you dont have to that is the option. You have the choice and thats dope....so.... why cant i choose a wildcard constract or just something where i can play the OG maps.

[dull mason]

I definitely would appreciate if Crytek added more incentive to the prestige system, even if it's not in the form of rewards but rather minimizing the time it takes to get weapon variants back.

I feel like they could even add a BB reward to prestige (in addition to the skin rewards already in place) without inflating the BB economy too much considering that prestiging has a limit (100), and a lot of people would still refuse to prestige at all.

[deep haven]

can region lock please actually work? getting tired of getting killed by chinese players on new accounts on us west

[queen jungle]

There is no region lock, nor have the devs ever expressed the desire to lock players to a specific region.

[winter plover]

Talking challenges, do you even bother completing them outside of events?

To me they always felt more like a chore than actual fun. It stops me from just playing whatever I want and forces me to use specific loadouts to repeat the same boring quests over and over again so I don't miss out on BBs.
I don't prestige anymore (so necessary unlocks don't really matter) and still don't bother even looking at the challenges, I can do without the BBs.

[crystal plume]

I mainly focus them when playing, encourages variety in my loadouts

[winter plover]

So you use different loadouts to do the same challenge? E.g. different poison guns or fire?

[crystal plume]

Usually yeah

Choosing my loadouts do to as many challenges at the same time as I can

Like yesterday I had rifle headshots and slug damage so it was the perfect time for some drilling

[spice topaz]

Being fed up but an addict the challenges keep the game somewhat interesting. Being able to help others with them is even better.

[knotty ore]

EU has tons of people with over 250 ping you can pick them out by how they move and how large the trading window is. US West/US East has a lot of people from China playing on the servers. Same issue as above. Not sure about OCE and Asia, just from reading its pretty bad over there too.

[winter plover]

Interesting how people think so different about some parts of the game. The people I play with either completely ignore the challenges or do them, but don't like them.

I can see how the weapon challenges are an incentive to play a variety of loadouts.
But I personally really don't like having to play specific loadouts - even if there is more than one option to do so. I am not a meta slave and play a huge vareity of guns, whatever I feel like playing, but I just hate being pushed to some loadout because of the challenges.

Since it's optional I just ignore them, but I'd love some alternative, additional way to earn the weekly BBs instead. Something less specific which you can just grind by playing.

[unborn smelt]

Why should it be like that tho?

There is regions where you can't connect to any server with sub 100ms ping

Like parts of south africa - and from what i was told even part of rural areas in the US

Also trading window isn't related to ping - afaik. (Technically it is kinda related to ping, but your own, not your enemies, because your shot has to reach the server before it validates your opponents shot, so your window of opportunity to win instead of trade, is the time it took the opponent to shoot you minus your own ping)

Thats part of the job of the serverside validation

[winter plover]

Not saying the ping limit and kicking players above a certain threshold is good or bad, but you could allow playing on the server with the best possible connection no matter the latency. It's like that currently, right? So the only difference would be checking ping not only while choosing server location but during a match as well.

[queen jungle]

The trade window just determines how long a bullet that has been fired before death will keep travelling it's normal path. The trade window does not allow players to shoot after they're already dead.

[unborn smelt]

Yes thats how it is currently

So if you have people with over 250ms ping - region lock wouldn't do anything

Because those people are already forced into their lowest ping region - which is usually the closest one to them

[winter plover]

The trade window shouldn't be affected by latency - but the lower the latency the lower the necessary trade window.
Higher latency makes trading feel worse since a bigger part of the 800ms or whatever it is is used. Still works as intended though.

[hot vigil]

Still think we could lower the ping limit from 225ms to around 100ms.

[crystal plume]

That's way too low

[hot vigil]

As I said around 100ms, think 120ms should be the limit tho.

[crystal plume]

Still too low

[little carbon]

"Optimizing the fun out of it"
That's a highly subjective matter.
There are people who derive fun/satisfaction out of optimizing something as much as possible, in fact that's pretty much most people with a competitive mindset.

So adding something to prestige allows you to optimize some part of it (or basically any system that has the prestige efficiency scale with some amount of critical thinking), would improve the system for these people.

I don't think unlock tokens would be the way to go. The mechanic lacks meaningful complexity and choice.

Another issue for people generally (and even moreso if you care about being efficient) is that prestiging gets worse as an option the longer you remain 0/100 and once you start it you basically can't take a break from it if you want to remain efficient. Prestige would be more fun if you wouldn't get punished for taking breaks.
A simple solution that I have suggested before was giving the player a choice upon reaching bloodrank 100 to either a) keep the progress from this prestige or b) loose the progress from this prestige and get back the one from last.
(Progress meaning HD, Hunters, Arsenal, unlocks, etc...)
That way the full grind remains the same but people are incentiviced more to do a prestige here and there

[hot vigil]

And if you cannot reach that it gives you closest lowest region

[crystal plume]

Imo EU and US East should be able to play on eachother's region as it's still fine gameplay wise at that ping

So at the lowest it could be only 160 or so and above

[little carbon]

Lower it to 100, increase the minimum amount of available regions to 3

And keep the system that in a party only the hosts ping matters

[hot vigil]

Ah my point is that if you give people "unlock tokens" it just mean that people would unlock their comfort weapon out of the gate, defeating the point of prestiging to begin with.

[little carbon]

Exactly. That's why I am against them.

[hot vigil]

Too high imo, 100ms with all the current systems we already have.
Ofc I do think if you cannot reach any of those, you should be able to join the lowest available server.

[hot vigil]

Mhm yeah, rn Prestige is most of all just plagued by a lot of annoyances.
Book of weapons/monster reset, the grind for big regen/vit shots, the custom ammo ect. ect.

Fact that prestiging hurts the ease of doing challenges, which is now crucial for both BB gain AND event grinding.

[little carbon]

Funnily enough, the event issue pretty much gets solved if you could take breaks better.

[unborn smelt]

800ms is not the "trade window" nor does high ping create or neccessitate a bigger trade window.

The trade window is largely dependant on projectile speed

The 800ms is the point the server automatically invalidates a shot, if nothing else invalidates it beforehand (like being dead serverside for example)

[little carbon]

Latency does factor in, but not in a way that most people think.

If both A and B are low ping. B Kills A, then A can't do anything anymore.
If B has high ping, their kill will take a while to reach the server, during which time A gets to be falsely alive. If A scores a kill during that time it won't be invalidated because the server doesn't yet know about B's kill. Which results in a trade.
It doesn't work the other way around, since then the server would already know about A's kill and just invalidate B.

Most trades are already in favor of the low ping player, reducing the invalidation window wouldn't make anything fairer

[steel comet]

#game-ideas message
Samurais were around until 1870s I think.
Meanwhile Vikings age ended with Christianisation around year 1100.

People like to put samurais and Vikings together, there's a huge gap.

[hot vigil]

This

[knotty ore]

Its really not. You are asking people to chose a few more players v. the competitive integrity and general enjoyability of the game. Like, there is an obvious choice here. I'd rather have less, but high quality games than more crap games. In Hunt the amount of crap games is already way too high.

[crystal plume]

Well I'm fairly confident that it will never be that low either way, so idc really either way 😄

[knotty ore]

I know Crytek is against choice, but you could technically just let people opt into a slightly longer queue times to exclude high ping players. While people who dont care can remain in the standard queue.

But, you know, every time the community gets a choice they tend to prefer the good shit.

[hot vigil]

@elfin needle it is literally announced on this discord.

#pc-announcements

[little carbon]

Well no. Having people to play with higher ping player is part of the compromise that lets them play the game at all.
You aren't even giving anything meaningful up. Yes, some moments that feel bad if you don't bother to think about networking context, but you aren't getting any disadvantages vs playing against low ping players only.

Fact is, high ping isn't an advantage and mostly detrimental to the high ping player.
The competetive integrity wouldn't get better by excluding them

[crystal plume]

They didn't have the role to see the channel, already handled in #game-questions 🙂

[queen jungle]

There shouldn't be a viking skin because it doesn't match the era, but what if it's some guy with a fixation on his ancestry (a cosplayer) who uses modern equipment to make a viking outfit. A patchwork of leather armor and helmet with the twisted Crytek flair.

I've also wondered about a modern interpretation of Greek or Roman armor.

[queen jungle]

@opaque glen In regards to how Ronin fits into the era, the Satsuma Rebellion occurred in 1877 when the samurai class was getting removed. For Ronin's backstory to fit, he could have escaped persecution in Japan and came to the US. All types of people came to the US for wealth during the 1800s, so it's not so hard to believe a Japanese ended up in New Orleans. But yes, a viking wouldn't have existed during this time frame.

[unborn smelt]

You don't get to make a kill while you're "falsely alive" even as the low ping player

As long as the server already knows you're dead - your shots after that will be invalidated (as in projectiles created after that point - not already existing projectiles)

Because thats the point of serverside validation

[stark fulcrum]

I see his point though, he just doesn't want it to get to absurd levels.

Neither do i.

[little carbon]

Yes, but thats the effect high ping has. Consider the following example:
A has a ping of 5, B of 100.
B kills A at t=0, sending the packet to the server (scheduled to arrive at t=100)
A kills B at t=5, sending the packet to the server (scheduled to arrive at t=10)
At t=10 the packet of player A arrives at the server and gets validated because the server with its current knowledge deems A alive. The kill gets validated.
At t= 100 the packet of player B arrives at the server. The server realizes that B was still alive at the time it sent the packet, so the the kill gets validated. [This is what changed from the old system. Under the old system this shot would have been invalidated right here].
This results in a trade.

If this interaction had happened at zero ping, then A would have been dead at t=0, not being able to shoot their shot at t=5. A manged to trade since they had ghost time

Ping in general creates a desynchronization between time of an event happening and time of that event being processed. Therefore you cant apply the usual concept of singular linear time when talking about networking.
In a perfect world events are processed in the order they happend, causing all relevant knowledge to be present (since causality still exist, a future event is not relevant for the present). But due to ping difference you get an order inversion, in which events arent processed in the order they happened, leading to crucial information missing, since it hasnt been processed yet

And two being falsely alive, there are two kinds of being falsely alive:
-The first one is the one most people think of, the server already has you dead, but your client doesnt know it yet. During this time you cannot make kills as you describe.
-The second one is the tricky one. You are also falsely alive if the server doesnt yet know that you are dead. During this time you can absolutely get kills, since you wont be invaldiated since the server doesnt know you are dead yet

And to make matters worse, on both screens it will look like the low ping player killed first. (Because their processing time is lower in total)
Client A receives the Death Packet of B at t=15 and their own at t=105, making it look like the high ping player killed them after they were already in the death animation.
Client B receives the Death Packet of B at t=110 and their own at t=200, starting the death animation of the other player after their own. (Notably here, B sees the blood splatter of the bullet impact at t=0, then they see themself die at t=110 and then they see the death anim of A at t=200)

And thats a short introduction into network timelines

[unborn smelt]

Validation is not about if the player was alive clientside when the shot happened - its about if the shooter was alive serverside. Otherwise there'd be basically no point to serverside validation

So in your example player B should have his shot invalidated due to being dead serverside already when the onfo arrives

Ofc bullet traveltime complicates things a whole lot on top

[karmic ivy]

No, its too low.

[karmic ivy]

I think that right there is the point I have seen most often misunderstood. I think it would be good if Crytek would make that particular point more plain.

[little carbon]

Yes and no. The client time matters. It matters whether the player was alive on the server at the time they do their shot at the client

You have two different timelines

[karmic ivy]

Lol, can't be both. Unless I am missing something.

[little carbon]

Basic gist is that when you send a clientside detected kill, you send a packet with a timestamp that basically says "i killed X at time t=t[c]". When that packet arrives at a time t[1] > t[c] at the server, the server checks if that player was alive according to its data at t[c]. If that is so (and the shot makes sense spatially) it gets valdiated.
Rangorok thinks that the server checks whether the client is alive at t[1] for validation

Thats also the reason for the upper limit on validation (the 800ms). because the server needs to keep a full history of its gamestates for that window to be ablet to make validation checks with a past gamestate

[karmic ivy]

That is not how I read it, but lets see what he says.

[little carbon]

I went over an extensiv example in the original post rangorok quoted, here

[karmic ivy]

I think he is saying the server checks at t[c]

[little carbon]

Then he might have misunderstood my original post

Cause if you check the beginning of that i give an example of how a ping trade happens

[karmic ivy]

I read it, I find all of this very interesting.

BTW, isn't "falsly alive" a bad way to put it since you are either alive or not, by the games rules, dead or alive. There is no true alive and false alive in this setting.

[little carbon]

Yes, thats correct.
I use falsely alive in this example to describe any point in time where a client is alive when that client would be dead if the system were running in real time

[brisk timber]

Man for real hunt without instinct is just such a downgrade again

i passed a dude who sat in a small tower doin nothing
He was just scanning the area, i even picked up stuff under the tower

He did not move at all - and then shot me in the head as i passed the tower

If that is something that is a big part and fun of hunt than i wonder who like this shit

Having no tool whatsoever again for countering camping is complete bullshit

[little carbon]

Yeah, instinct was good.
I mean yes, campers can get some value out of it too, but you could get more value out of it if used aggressively

[hardy coral]

Hardly

It just made the game slower.

[brisk timber]

maybe in scared 3* lobbies

[hardy coral]

It did in all lobbies.

[brisk timber]

Not really

[hardy coral]

It isn't an anti-camp tool, it's a camp tool.

You pop instinct, you sit still and see if they didn't have it.

[brisk timber]

If both parties have it as basekit its fine

[little carbon]

They see you too tho. And then they can pinpint you exactly and push you down

[crystal plume]

As if 5-6 stars aren't "scared" as well

[hardy coral]

Insinct sucked. Just cus you have bad gamesense doesn't mean it was anywhere near a net positive for the game.

[little carbon]

It only was slow when both teams are afraid to be aggressive and then hell, anything that makes the game more miserably for those people is good

[crystal plume]

Some people just slow down by like 10x as soon as they get any indication of enemies being nearby, instinct made that very common

[brisk timber]

Bad gamesense because i cant sense somebody sitting in a damn tower at the complete edge of a map?

[hardy coral]

How does knowing if someone is around for 75 metres make the game any quicker?

[brisk timber]

There was just no way i could have "sensed" that

[hardy coral]

If there's people left on the map stay aware.

Weird spot, bad play from him, still killed you.

[crystal plume]

Imo instinct took away a bigger part of the game than death cheat ever did

[hardy coral]

Death cheat only choked out the other perks.

Since it was way more worth to save the 3 for it instead of getting the others first.

[brisk timber]

What big part? sitting in bushes "ambushing" unexpecting people all day long because thats the only way you get out net positive?

[crystal plume]

Ambushing is part of the game, yes

[hardy coral]

You don't get kills just by waiting in a random spot, ambushing teams you've seen or heard is meant to be part of the game.

[crystal plume]

I hate actual camping a lot, but ambushing is part of the game

[little carbon]

Sneaking and sitting shouldnt be rewarded.
A clean ambush, where you notice a team and then push into them hard and fast to catch them off guard is still possible with instinct

[hardy coral]

It isn't, but whatever.

[ripe basalt]

I agree with this. If I know you are coming, I may utilize the terrain or buildings to attack you at the right moment that's an advantage to me. This isn't "camping".

[hardy coral]

How does knowing if people are around for 75 metres not just end the majority of ambushes? It did for me.

[little carbon]

If you take longer than a minute for your ambush you honestly take too long.

[hardy coral]

It's not about time, if they know you're there in any way you won't be able to do it.

Becomes about distance at that point, you'd be shooting people at 75+ metres and at that point you'd best hope for an opening headshot on a guy in the open to make any impact.

[ripe basalt]

How so? If clue pickup removes a large section of the map and I know the most practical compound for you to go to, and I know your coming (Crows, dogs, ect) I may wait longer than a minute for your arrival.

[little carbon]

if you know the exact location of another team and they only know your general location, you still have the advantage. if you give them time to triangulate you as well, then thats on you

[ripe basalt]

There's a billion factors on why it may take you a minute to arrive to my location

[little carbon]

Why wait, why not advance and take them on the move

[ripe basalt]

If you don't know where they are at? Lol

[hardy coral]

Because you'd be giving up your position to possibly even fight them on their terms.

People stay in lair because they don't want to fight in the courtyard or the fields around the compound.

People wait in ambush against people they've heard because they don't wanna randomly run into them in the open.

[brisk timber]

I have nothing against fast ambushes
But sitting somewhere and waiting for prologned times because you know they coming sooner or later is just cheap
Just yesterday i did this aswell waiting at some clue because i knew the map narrows down at this point and people probably have to come here to get to the boss.
Headshotted a guy as he was taking a clue.
Probably wouldnt have worked instinct.

[hardy coral]

Not really cheap if you made noise or moved in an obvious way against people with better gamesense.

[brisk timber]

This "ambushing" is such a vague thing and it often enough leans heavily into "waiting out" your enemy

[little carbon]

If you have sufficient information, you can make an active play against a team, if you dont, then you better advance your general game and move towards the bounty

[ripe basalt]

I think that's vague, because it depends heavily on the game state

[little carbon]

if you hear crows and are close enough you have a pretty precise location to attack, no need to wait around

[hardy coral]

And how is an ambush not an "active play" when you're likely going to activate the fight on your own terms.

If anything the people getting ambushed are being passive.

[little carbon]

Waiting a compound over because you heard crows somewhere in the greyed out area and they have a 50% chance to come to your compound isnt a skilled ambush

[ripe basalt]

No one said that

[hardy coral]

It is.

[little carbon]

No, you are afraid of leveraging the advantage you have and would rather wait to have a chance at fighting at an even greater advantage

[ripe basalt]

If I hear you scare crows at salters, for example. And first clue pickup clears top right. I'd imagine your next move would be Arden for example.

[brisk timber]

I just loved instinct because it atleast gave me a tool.
Be aware. Triangulate people down.

If other only used it to sit and camp man thats on them. And its equally on the other team for not using instinct to get to their position. Instinct was great to get into real fights instead of this cheap ambush shit we are back to now.

[hardy coral]

Yeah, and you have a chance of just missing them entirely, it's a gamble.

[ripe basalt]

If I spawned Windy, this would be a practical place for me to go and wait for you to arrive to kill you crossing the open area

[hardy coral]

Not a safe play when they can end up in a better position later on because you didn't chase them.

[ripe basalt]

Sometimes, this happens best at center-map compounds

[brisk timber]

I see what kind of player you are.

[hardy coral]

A smart one.

[brisk timber]

A boring one.

[hardy coral]

I don't "camp". I use my advantages.

[little carbon]

By that you tie the possibility of advantage to a coin flip, which isnt great. You rather want any advantage gained be the sole result of players making critical decisions quickly.
That way you maximize how closely tied the game to someones skill is.

[brisk timber]

I hope this game evolves to disable those "advantages" again 🙂

[hardy coral]

You don't even know me or what I'm talking about. You just want a crutch.

[little carbon]

Pressure is good. Advantages should always come with a time limit during which you need to use them or you lose them potentially at a greater loss

[brisk timber]

I know how effective this gameplay is
But effective isnt always most fun

[hardy coral]

Which is what an ambush is.

Time sensitive and if you miss them you're at a disadvantage because you're likely behind getting to the boss.

[ripe basalt]

All information is time sensitive

I'm not sure how this is applied to the conversation from either side

To the point of instinct, Instinct allowed you to gain information on the move that you may not have been able to gain otherwise

Situationally very strong, and to Rakki's point, would help with the straight up camping people in random ass places that don't make sense

But overall, for what I would agrue as "normal" play, I don't think it did much for strategic placement/Ambushes outside of places that are hard to setup inside of 75m

[little jackal]

can't wait for a trait against headshots

only boring players aim at the head

[hardy coral]

Bulwark, salveskin, antidote shots, hornskin.

[ripe basalt]

[steel comet]

My general experience with instinct was people becoming more passive.

I'm glad it's gone.

[royal horizon]

Mine's the opposite

More information available to people makes them less likely to stand still and do nothing

[hallow pasture]

My experience with it is at the point the enemy figured out you got instinct, they'll get a move on before you figured out where they are.
On the other hand tho, I came across lots of people with instinct, playing even more passive, knowing you're around, just can't figure out where, and go sit in a damn bush all the time.

So, there... it goes both ways.
Imho, I don't miss it that much.

[steel comet]

This game is filled with all sorts of sound traps. Instinct is just cheap information, no gamesense required or awareness.

[vital fractal]

Instinct was a bad idea to put in the game, and I am happy it is gone- its fine for ultra limited events but not as something to be implemented long term

Ambushes in general are absolutely an aspect of Hunt that should be allowed to continue, you get punished for allowing a team to plan an ambush on your position either by being predictable, loud, or simply unlucky. Why should someone who has spent the time to analyze their options and plan be punished because some people just want to run around with a player detector in their back-astral pocket?

[karmic ivy]

There is no punishment... lol

[vital fractal]

It is a punishment because the ambush loses the aspect of surprise... the whole purpose of an ambush

[karmic ivy]

A punishment...

1. The imposition of a penalty or deprivation for wrongdoing.
2. A penalty imposed for wrongdoing.

Not a punishment.

[karmic ivy]

In this case, what was the "wrongdoing"?

[vital fractal]

Planning an ambush in the environment where instinct exists-

which means, getting punished for doing a tactically advantageous move otherwise just because the other team has a player detector that works out to 75m in all directions

In a game like hunt where stealth whilst moving is a heavy aspect of the overall process, instinct is an absolute contradiction to that motif

[karmic ivy]

That is not "wrongdoing", it is intended, by the nature of the game's rules.

[vital fractal]

no, its intended by the nature of instinct- which goes against the nature of the game and its heavy stealth elements.

[karmic ivy]

I think the developers would disagree with your statment.

But carry on... Preach the punishment doctrine 😉 lol

[vital fractal]

Which is why they removed it from gameplay outside of events, and I can refer you to david fifield 🙂

[karmic ivy]

You have a source for your "punishment" idea? what is it?

[vital fractal]

It appeared to me in a tech-wraithe inspired dream Duncan.

[karmic ivy]

was david in it? rofl

[brisk timber]

I can somewhat agree that maybe the 75m range of instinct was a bit too effective on countering ambushes.

On the other hand i for one would give away some of the ambush effectiveness if that means i would finally get a tool against god damn campers.
In Hunt the effectiveness of literally sitting and waiting and listening is just way too strong.

I feel like the instinct trait is something thats really missing in a game called freakin HUNT

finally we were able to track people down

[vital fractal]

You can track people down already, using actual intuition and context clues

instead of a perk that screams " ACTIVE SHOOTA IN THE AO "

[brisk timber]

hahaha

intuition and context clues hahaha

https://tenor.com/view/spidey-senses-gif-23174675

my man now you making shit up

ofc you can track someone down by searching with your eyes

[vital fractal]

Literally Instinct

[karmic ivy]

I do enjoy the "hunt" in Hunt, But instinct did not take away from it, in fact I am glad to see them experimenting.

Why are you so worried? they made a great game thus far, yes?

[vital fractal]

I was never worried about experimentation, it’s pretty obvious from my other standpoints that I am down for it- I’m just voicing that in this specific case, I didn’t like it and feel it was against core gameplay and themes and am happy it wasn’t implemented. Somethings work others don’t.

The instinct was, not the experimentation**

[opaque glen]

I didn't think about it like that. I guess that makes sense, but regardless of the possibility, it doesn't seem like it fits the aesthetic of the game at all. RDR2 takes place in 1995 too, but it would be really strange to see a samurai there for the same reason.

[karmic ivy]

Would you be worried if they added it as a feature in the future?

[vital fractal]

I would quite dislike it, if that’s what you’re asking.

Experimenting with game versions and builds is a welcome process, but the individual changes or experiments that are used can be criticized or praised independently- wouldn’t you agree on that aspect?

[autumn stump]

i dont know who suggested it but we really need an option to refuse to be revived half of the randoms i play with will sit on my body and try to revive me out in the open while theyre getting shot at i cant take it anymore

[brisk timber]

I think instinct is of the same kind self revive is
its actually needed but people who are affected by it restricting their gameplay dont like it
even tho it would be overall healthier for the game as a whole

[autumn stump]

im just tired of deranking to 5 or 4 star because my teammate wants to the win altruist of the century award and get us both killed, maybe something like a skull with an exclamation point icon or anything to say "hey youre going to die trying to revive me"

[vital fractal]

My position is, I don’t like the fact that the stealth portion of Hunt is being diluted.

There’s a difference between being able to self revive because a team fails to cover your body as they should be doing anyways and having all aspects of stealth thrown out because they instantly know you’re there within 75m or 5m because they checked dark sight.

The boost works because it’s a limited time buff, which is already incredibly powerful when utilized strategically.

Instinct requires nothing but a button click and is infinite.

So as I said, stealth will be actively punished due to the fact it will be slower for no benefit-

People act like setting up an ambush ruins the game but don’t reflect that maybe they shouldn’t be putting them selves in the situation to be ambushed in the first place-

[karmic ivy]

Yes, I am just trying to figure out why you are so sure its bad, when the developers clearly do not share your opinion. Its like you think they are going to mess it up? And just leave it in a problematic state?

[vital fractal]

I’m sure it’s bad because I played the previous event and dealt with it for the multiple weeks it was out.

Also, the developers acknowledge the event traits clearly mess up the flow of typical hunt- again, David Fifield specifically mentioned how the event traits are meant to push the envelope and even be uncomfortable in a way to see what is worth developing or not when it comes to certain features.

[vital fractal]

And yes, I do think the developers will mess up the game. They do it every update with bugs, on accident. Every developer does, to expect perfection is wrong.

However I expect them to try to rectify any issues they make-

Anyways that devolves into a complete other conversation which is way out of the scope of this conversation which I am trying to keep relegated to the idea at hand:

Instinct and why I believe it’s not fit for the game outside of events and limited time occurrences.

[karmic ivy]

When I say "bad" I mean bad for Hunt, not your subjective opinion of the feature.

I think if they put a "instinct" like feature in the game, they will ensure it is "good" for Hunt.

[vital fractal]

Two different analyzers can determine what good and bad is differently.

Such a view on a topic without nuance is too black and white.

Of course the developers will try to do what’s good for the game, but sometimes they make mistakes and end up doing what they think is good but the community does not, ultimately harming the game.

You make it sound like the developers idea of good is the only one that matters.

[karmic ivy]

Yes, sometimes...
And my point was they have done an excellent job up to this point. Made an exceptional game.

Why do you think their are going to fall down now?

[hot vigil]

Instinct was fundamentally broken.
It completely negated the point of banishing being loud and creating a window for people to push in.
And it is not fun to sit in a bosslair for 3min holding down E while the banishment is happening.

It actively ruined skillful silent movement too

[brisk timber]

"Fundamentally broken"
"good for Hunt"
all this takes are so highly subjective the same way as i say instinct is needed

[hot vigil]

It is not subjective to say it is fundamentally broken.

It is a claim

and one I stand by

I even stated how it negated other already implemented mechanics of the game.

[unborn dagger]

Agreed, only possible way I could see them bringing it back in is if rotjaw's darksight was replaced with instinct.

[hot vigil]

Or a trait for people with a bounty who is out of dark sight boost.

It needs to heavily limited

[little jackal]

even without a trait, that would be fine

out of boost - at least you know someone is nearby

[hot vigil]

I could agree on that, bc the bounty carrier is already at a big disadvantage.

But also, been fine without so far.

[brisk timber]

The major selling point of Instinct is that its a tool to be aware and track people remaining in an passive/hiding state

Bounty team doesnt need an instinct or smth like that
thats literally missing the point of what instinct is about in the first place

[hot vigil]

Maybe, there needs to be limitations to it.

Bc having it for free is stupid

And by free I mean "no conditions needs to be met"

[brisk timber]

i dont see why this is stupid if everyone has it
The worst thing about Instinct would be if some people have it and some not
That was a big problem during the event aswell - because having instinct was a major advantage vs not having it
So binding it to some trait or other prerequisites would make it more frustrating

[hardy coral]

Why should you be able to know that there's people around you by pressing a button? There's SOUND for that.

[brisk timber]

Oh tell me more about some dude sitting in a corner make sound

[craggy pike]

I hated instinct, made everyone act overly cautious, trying to figure out where in a 75m radius is an enemy sneaking around

[hardy coral]

So that means the entire game should be broken because you died to some guy in a corner?

[brisk timber]

Oh yea right - people actually just didnt run into stuff unaware
And actually it came down to gun fights
yea thats bad :/

[craggy pike]

Ambushes are part of the game

[brisk timber]

The entire...what?
I see.
Your whole game evolves around beeing the dude in the corner.
Cant you shoot targets shooting back at you or what?

[hot vigil]

Honestly I rarely die to guy in the corner and go "oh that was not my fault", you make sound, you get ambushed, that is hunt.
9 out of 10 times, a fight is always about getting the drop on another team and that is idea of Hunt.

[craggy pike]

If you are skilled at being stealthy you deserve to have the advantage of surprise

[hardy coral]

I'm 2.6 KDA 6 star who plays aggressively. Cope.

[brisk timber]

Yea because everything you do makes sounds.
Beeing the proactive player in this game has still to many disadvantages.
Thats why people often dont move.

[brisk timber]

Damn youre really cool. woow.

[hot vigil]

Not reflective of my games.

Sorry to say

Can not relate to that at all

[hardy coral]

You're saying that I'm a corner camper and I'm not.

So it's relevant.

And anyway, in the situations where people are sitting in corners waiting instinct doesn't help you since you'll 99% of the time know they are around.

[brisk timber]

Not really because your KD and MMR doesnt say jack shit about your playstyle

Theres no causation between those things

[hardy coral]

Well I say I'm an aggressive player who succeeds.

Instinct doesn't magically dislodge people camping in a brick corner with a shotgun.

It just lowers the skill cieling and increases camping because the players who will play it safe will go into turtle mode upon proccing instinct.

[brisk timber]

No it doesnt. But atleast it makes me aware someone pulling this shit if i have instinct and hear nobody move for one or two sec.

So it gives me atleast the info to be fuckin aware

[hardy coral]

Which you should be any numerous context clues.

[vital fractal]

Or you can be aware by checking corners and prodding properly

[hardy coral]

Like is there AI around, used items, broken items, etc.

[vital fractal]

yeah theres context clues lmao

[brisk timber]

Thats the thing.
THis shit maybe fun in Counter Strike where you have a small map and have your dozen of corners.

[hardy coral]

In the situation that some guy with no sound or prior knowledge is just camping a random corner (which I've basically never seen happen).

[brisk timber]

In a game like hunt playing like that is not fun at all

[vital fractal]

bro hunt is meant to be slow

everyone be like AVTO IS OUT OF PLACE but then get mad when gameplay is slow

[brisk timber]

What hunt is "meant to be" is highly debateable

[hardy coral]

It is meant to be slow and methodical though.

[hot vigil]

No it is not

lmao

[hardy coral]

The guns, map design, objective and sound all push towards that.

[vital fractal]

Clearly its meant to be a super fast paced game, which is why there is an emphasis on old guns with single shot actions and low tech themes lmao

[brisk timber]

Ok if i say Hunt is meant to be a sniper game - because yea we have sniper guns and all
Now lets please delete maps with bad condition because the fundamentally break my sniper playstyle

[vital fractal]

Stealth? Non important, checking for danger? why do that when PUSH

[hardy coral]

[brisk timber]

Whats your view is on what Hunt is - is exactly that - your view

[hot vigil]

Being slow and methodical ain't the same as being a sniper game lmao

[hardy coral]

It isn't when the devs have said and designed so.

[brisk timber]

can you stop saying lmao every sentence? jesus

[vital fractal]

Its a fun way express emotion lmao

[hot vigil]

Can you stop being funny? :v
Tho it is a bad habit of me.

[brisk timber]

Than youre a prick tbh

[vital fractal]

Then*

[hot vigil]

Also game is literally called Hunt: Showdown.

[vital fractal]

Now i am 🙂

[craggy pike]

Looks like we won't be getting anywhere productive

[vital fractal]

I spent my time being productive, nothing new was added so- where else to go?

[craggy pike]

Instead of making an ass of yourself you could stop engaging with someone that won't be swayed

[brisk timber]

Ok and where are the trails i track? bloodstains? footprints?
comon dude
I use the same argument in favor of instinct because you can actually hunt someone down with it

[vital fractal]

If thats all what it takes to be classified as such, then I can't help you- again what have you added here?

[brisk timber]

We're here to discuss stuff. if the discussion is dead for you instead of making fun of the other site just leave the convo.

[craggy pike]

Instinct isn't good at anything besides telling you someone is nearby, there's no skill involved and you can use it all you want. It's a cheap trick

[vital fractal]

didn't realize i was the one with the name calling, sorry I tend to black out about that stuff

[hot vigil]

Doesn't have to have 100% immersive tracking elements to be a hunting game, as the methodology of Hunting is careful and observant approach. Which the games rewards.

[vital fractal]

Anyways

[brisk timber]

I like to have that cheap trick to counter the cheap trick to sit around and listen to players who actually move, make some noise and play the game

[vital fractal]

Hunt is about taking your time before the showdown

If someone is sitting, then they are just waiting for a time to strike- they set up, invested, and are playing their way, whether its a sniper or shotgun.

[brisk timber]

i mean okay

[craggy pike]

I do understand that dealing with people that sit still forever is a mixed bag, but those are few and far between

[brisk timber]

lets saddle up the horse from another side

if instinct gotta go

We need more repercussing to people sitting for prolonged time

Like actually hear them breath or some shit

[hot vigil]

I mean there is already punishment for that, you don't get the bounty.

[brisk timber]

Every move makes sound but sitting around doesnt

[vital fractal]

Yes. Because youre not moving.

[craggy pike]

I disagree, if someone wants to waste their time sitting in one spot for 45 minutes I say let them

[vital fractal]

The absence of activity comes with the absence of noise.

[brisk timber]

Maybe this would be fine if "not getting the bounty" would actually be more relevant
Right now 3rd partying and going to the direction of shots is still way more beneficial

because the bounty doesnt run away and time is fairly long with 45min

[hot vigil]

Also, honestly, people needs to take 30 sometimes, just set down and feel the soundscape for 30 seconds.

[craggy pike]

If you sit for too long, your character will develop gout and start making pain noises

[hot vigil]

Well, then that is the issue.

We need better incentives for play

And we can do that without breaking down the fundaments of the whole stealth ecosystem.

[vital fractal]

See thats supposed to be the bounty but like, people play this more for PvP rather than the main objective pull of the game...

[hot vigil]

Yeah

[vital fractal]

Which is hilarious because it mirrors the bloodthirst of hunters over time lmao

it goes from, " i want money to buy dolch" to "I want other people to lose at all costs"

[brisk timber]

I disagree there because the stealth ecosystem in my eyes is still relevant enought even when people know youre around somewhere.
To me killing someone completely unaware is not something i feel like is a very fun aspect of the game.
I dont really am proud of those kills to begin with

So personally i wouldnt mind if that gets chipped away a little in favour for another mechanic if i would have to decide for one or another.

But

i can also say that its not ambushes that are the problem in the first place

So i can understand the take when people say its to harsh on those ambushes

But its the camping that still needs an effective tool against

Instinct for me is the other side of the coin to how to counter camping
You either give the Hunter who plays actively a advantage (instinct) or you make camping punishing (???)

[craggy pike]

Maybe instinct could be a passive. Once you enter the 75m radius the player will get the orange flash for a second but that's it. They felt someone was nearby but they can't tell for sure if they're still around or if they were passing by, but you'd know more than nothing

[brisk timber]

but the devs cant to come up with an solution for latter

Then peopl make suggestions like "Let flies spawn over sitting people" "Make sitting people breate"
And once again people are against it

And at some point i wonder if people dont want that stuff to begin with because they actually like those camping playstyles

[craggy pike]

Some do for sure

As a solo player I need to take advantage of stealthy movement, but camping is a death sentence when outnumbered

[brisk timber]

Yea solo indeed got way harder with instinct present in Hunt

[craggy pike]

I might throw my above idea into suggestions

It'll probably get killed

[brisk timber]

I mean there are probably many things devs could do to tweak instinct to make it more situational

If people camp too much with it? Make instinct maybe a charge that only replenishes by moving

[craggy pike]

I think it has merit as a trait but it needs refinement

[brisk timber]

Or instinct range reduced to 50m

The only thing i know is how good it felt during the event to finally have SOMETHING to track somebody down whos bound to evade you

[hardy coral]

Reducing the range actually buffs it.

[brisk timber]

It would defo buff the tracking ability
But reduce the awareness ability

thats a net positive for me

[hot vigil]

Dunno again... just... don't feel like I'm getting jumped that often.

For me to want instinct to ruin boss lairs even more

Maybe if it was a trait and you had to channel it darksight for 5 seconds to work.

Then MAYBE

But that would still break bosslairs

[brisk timber]

Quick idea:
A bounties extreme magical presence overwhelmes other magical sources. So within its range (150m?) instinct doesnt work.

[abstract bolt]

Bro don't cook again

[steel comet]

Instinct gives so much free information. Lets say you wipe a team, check darksight, discover they actually managed to revive one of their dudes or there's actually another team that snuck up on you that you'd normally not notice cause of combat tunnelvision

[brisk timber]

Great!

So we can actually have more fair fights instead of getting cheap shots

Sounds good to me tbh

Im not a big fan of a gamestyle evolving around your opppnents unawareness.

[abstract bolt]

Just admit you got addicted to using instinct and can't function without it

[brisk timber]

What you think this is about? Ofc
Its a good thing to have

[abstract bolt]

amogus

[unborn dagger]

What Bonk said is pretty accurate, you seem to not be able to play Hunt without relying on a trait that is basically high alert vision from COD. In a game that's about being aware of your surroundings, memorization and hearing other players you just want to remove that aspect entirely.

[dusky tapir]

#game-ideas message
why? with the springfield's pitiful dmg drop off severe bleeding won't be a problem

[stark fulcrum]

I mean people did with solo necro. Why not instinct?

[stark fulcrum]

If they hadn't kept necro for solos id agree, but being they did the door is open for more.

@brisk timber i want instinct back simply because it was the best anti camping tool we had

[little jackal]

as if solo necro is a good thing

[unborn dagger]

How does that relate to my point about instinct taking away from Hunt's gameplay? Solo necro just has players sitting on top of a body and trapping or burning it and the trait still has plenty of people arguing against it.

[stark fulcrum]

@unborn dagger you said bonk was right, bonk said people got addicted to the trait

Same happened with necro, but people accept that. So I'm asking whats the difference with people getting used to instinct?

[unborn dagger]

Not everyone accepted that and neither is everyone accepting instinct like rn.

[stark fulcrum]

New traits would be welcome. Instinct served the purpose of what beetle was supposed to do, helping fight againest camping players

[trail carbon]

Yeah, but it also removed the element of surprise

[stark fulcrum]

Anyone with any amount of time in hunt has been popped multiple occasions by Bush wookies or shotgunners randomly camping corners

[unborn dagger]

New traits are welcome I agree but I do not like traits that remove the point of the game which is mostly listening to where your enemy is at

[stark fulcrum]

You can't listen if he's camping man

And it happens every night to all of us

Theres nothing immersive about a guy keeping the bush or corner warm for 5 or 10 minutes solid

Until a better method is designed instinct was the best option we had to fight that

[unborn dagger]

It's also not immersive to me to be able to know that there is a player in my area by simply pressing a button

[stark fulcrum]

Or hey how about a trait that tracks footprints to a certain distance

That might be cool

[unborn dagger]

That would be awesome

[stark fulcrum]

Right

I just thought about that and it makes sense

Would fit the old west and hunting

Especially the Indian hunters

[unborn dagger]

That is something that fits into hunt for sure

[stark fulcrum]

I may try to put that in suggestions

[unborn dagger]

I just don't know how it would work. If footprints didn't disappear would that not cause a lot of stress on the game?

[stark fulcrum]

Ok i posted it

I'm thinking tracks only appear sporadically and only a short area

Then disappear later idk

Let crytek work it out lol

Also have it cost its in game value, like 12 trait points or something. The more powerful the more costly

[late quartz]

This I think strikes at the core of the issue.

Even people who like instinct tend to agree that it was too strong/effortless. The thing is though, the core gameplay element that instinct plays on is something that Hunt may indeed benefit from experimenting with.

Stalker beetles were Cryteks first crack at it, and they fail for a number of reasons, primarily how exposed you are while using them, the cost of bringing them, and their lack of reusability.

Instinct was a very overtuned way to address the same issues, information gathering in hunt doesn't really extend beyond facechecking with jump peeks, there needs to be a way to limit the risk of pushing by gathering information. Instinct did this, but favored broad information over specific information. Stalker beetles favor specific information over broad information, but carry a heavy cost when used

Tools like poison sense aim to achieve the same thing, give players a way to gather information and act on windows of opportunity.
Poison sense also fails to make a big impact but for its own set of reasons

[stark fulcrum]

@late quartz whats your thought on what I posted in suggestions?

Go check it out let me know what you think about it.

Also I agree with your comment

I was just stating currently instinct was our best option

[late quartz]

It would be hard to make work?

The issue here is that not all information gathering plays to the same elements of the game. Footprint tracking is something you can see in a lot of games, and generally it's more helpful for chasing players than it is for weeding out campers.

If a player is camping, they're not making active footsteps, they'd need to last a long time to fulfil that job. If they last too long they become less precise information and you may be seeing very old tracks that don't really lead anywhere valuable.

On top of this, DURING a fight being able to see exactly the path a player moved can be a major advantage in a way that we most likely don't want to bundle with an anti-camping measure

MY PERSONAL approach right now would be to buff stalker beetles. Specifically I think there should be a 4~5 point trait that lets you channel dropped beetles on dark sight, similar to serpent, to reinhabit them

This increases their reusability making them more of a worthwhile investment

[unborn dagger]

That would be a pretty neat trait

[late quartz]

Right now, you not only need to take a consumable slot, not only do you need to leave your body unoccupied, but you need to fully commit to using the beetle because once you hop off you're very very unlikely to ever get it back within a fight.

Games like Rainbow Six Siege have a similar droning mechanic, but their drones are a CORE part of the game because you're able to use them consistently throughout a match.

[unborn dagger]

That should honestly be on serpent itself no?

[late quartz]

Serpent is already an extremely valuable trait so I wouldn't want to muddy its balance here

[unborn dagger]

Fair

I'm still not quite a fan of beetles since it seems out of place for a game like Hunt

[late quartz]

Games with punishing combat and fast times to kill need some way for players to clear corners and gather intel without face checking

it's sort of a necessary mechanic if you want your game to not feel like shit LOL

[unborn dagger]

True lol

[late quartz]

Stalker beetles are woefully underutilized by the community, and they introduce many many layers of skill in regards to teamwork, communication, execution etc.

The depth of the game will increase with stalker beetle buffs. It seems like a purely good thing to buff them right now.

Obviously, their explosive effect may need to be rebalanced if they receive buffs, but frankly I'd rather have a solid, reliable, consistently usable intel tool than a suicide bomb drone

[unborn dagger]

I honestly hope they don't receive any buffs. The stalker beetle is strong as hell for its explosion where you bleed and poison.

[late quartz]

Limiting the game's intel tools because crytek (foolishly) muddied their balance with damage, DOT, and CC feels like a bad bullet to bite

I'd rather they go "Yeah no remove the explosion" and in turn give them a speed/handling buff in conjunction with better QoL from the trait I mentioned above

I would bring stalker beetles more if I could use them more consistently, but as it stands gathering intel, flying all the way back to my body, then acting on that old expired intel is pretty wack. It's better to just blow it up and try for a push

Which feels... not so nice

[unborn dagger]

Yeah it's pretty hard to disagree when thinking about it like that.

Especially the expired intel

[novel vigil]

my game stutters for 2-3 days anyone have same issue?

even FPS is same stutters

[brisk timber]

#troubleshooting

[brisk timber]

I can play hunt perfectly fine so dont get me wrong just because i voice my desire for instinct to stay
cause i actually thing it was a good addition 😄

[stark fulcrum]

Yeah I agree overall with what you've said. I just want a better way to prevent camping as much. I still think tracking could work if done right. Like say the steps stop at compounds etc.

[unborn dagger]

It's good for campers, just not the rest of the game.

[stark fulcrum]

On the broader topic outside of just instinct. Id really like to see new traits especially utility ones. This and a new map XD

[brisk timber]

The thing about Instinct is just that it was for once a mechanic that finally worked against one of the few things in Hunt that always annoyed me like hell. People that wait it out. People that dont move. People that wait for you to make a move first. Because having the intel of sound and react to it is always an advantage.
Instinct in that regard was a drop of fresh water in this wasteland of no counterplay to inaction.

[unborn dagger]

I think what pyrrhic says is a better option if buffed since it requires dedication to using that consumable and risking your hunter

[stark fulcrum]

This was my thoughts exactly. Instinct wasn't perfect, but it did its intended purpose well.

[stark fulcrum]

Yeah there always needs to be a trade off i agree with you.

Man I just wanna track people on my Indian wraith

[unborn dagger]

Agreed lol

I would love a way to track down hunters like the bleeding tip that was an error

[brisk timber]

Consumables will never be a solution. Because its use is limited. Playing passiv is not.

[stark fulcrum]

@unborn dagger dude wven better! Have bleed ammo leave a blood trail, or fire burn bushes

Dreams

[late quartz]

The thing about Instinct is just that it was for once a mechanic that finally worked against one of the few things in Hunt that always annoyed me like hell.
I agree with this, all together I think instict shouldn't be in the game but it highlighted elements of the game that could use work.

The thing is, it's easy to come up wit ha solution to a problem, it's hard to come up with a GOOD solution.
Instinct is problematic because it's not a surgical, tailored solution. If we want to make traversing the map feel safer, make it harder to set up ambushes, there are good ways to do that.
If we want to make camping harder, there are ways to do that.
If we want to make it easier to pick off stragglers after messy complicated multi-team fights, there are ways to do that

Instinct does all of these and more, and that's what makes it so poorly suited for Hunt

[brisk timber]

Exactly.

[stark fulcrum]

@late quartz I think us as players could come up with possible solutions and ideas if we hashed it out a couple days

[brisk timber]

I agree that instinct is maybe overdone and can get in the way of legit plays like ambushing and rotations.
But there need to be something to counter the sheer unawareness a Hunter has against people not moving and not making sounds.

[stark fulcrum]

But we all agree the game needs a better solution to the problem

Thats the main thing

[brisk timber]

I still dont understand that everything in this games makes sounds - but heavy breathing sitting around hearable atleast in like a 10m range is forbidden?

this would do so much to pin people down

[late quartz]

Yeah I mean I really don't... find myself convinced by the main counter argument which seems to be "sound is strong in Hunt"

This is obviously true, but anybody who's interested in being honest will admit that sound isn't a single solution to all possible situations. "Just listen" doesn't account for situations where there isn't a noise to hear, or where the threat in question is out of audible range

[brisk timber]

The same way a Mosin Sniper Spitzer is no fun to play against - the same way its not fun to play a dude that sits 5min around a corner in some compound to pop out with his Crown and King if you come around the corner.

[stark fulcrum]

The problem is differentiating between camping and ambushing. I think something along the lines of if you stay in x amount of area for a certain time you gain corruption, audio noise, something idk

Anything to stop the sniper or crown and king waiting in one spot for a kd cushion

[brisk timber]

Yea this argument is bonkers because nobody is having problems with people MOVING and making sound in the first place.
So recommend using clues and sound against a target thats not moving is borderline insulting.

[stark fulcrum]

Exactly, audio only counts when theres noise being made.

[late quartz]

Not making noise also isn't like... a high skill tactic or something

[stark fulcrum]

Nope lol

[late quartz]

And yet the "git gud" argument is sort of shoveled off on the people asking for more intel tools

The game would be MORE interesting with more play/counterplay dynamics between players

Giving players more tools to gather intel in turn means players need to better adapt to that intel gathering

[stark fulcrum]

Theres no counterplay to camping

[late quartz]

It deepens the experience on both sides

[brisk timber]

Totaly. During event i had way more blown out gunfights because people new each other presence.
I know its maybe shit for people relying on some sneaky tactics. But atleast it stopped the matches a great deal ending from sudden deaths because you get popped on outta nowhere.

[stark fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/adam-levine-embarrassed-gif-21343983

Hot take, id like to see scope glare/shine introduced if positioned towards the sun

[brisk timber]

Hot take: Any.Damn.Time.All.Day.Long.

Scopes have a glare would be a godsend

[stark fulcrum]

@brisk timber @brisk timber no doubt the event was more fun for sure was massive open fights

[late quartz]

I've said in the past I feel the single biggest benefit of Instinct was it allowed players to move around the map more quickly, people were less afraid of getting where they're going because they were able to know if they were clear to sprint to their next clue/objective

[brisk timber]

Aswell as for new players and people considering maining a game and dedicating time to it
one of the most offputting things to encounter is unpredictability and anti climatic endings

Things like Spitzer Sniper, Flashbangs, Bushwookies and Corner Campers
Those are legit offputting things rn

[late quartz]

I like that Hunt is a slow methodical game, but its undeniable that it has a lot of down time that doesn't really contribute to the experience.

After your first few hours when you're no longer cowering in a bush for 20 minutes at a time, simply walking around the map can take up a major chunk of a play session.
Speeding up the traversal process improves the pace of the game without removing its depth or tactical gameplay

[stark fulcrum]

I think honestly, crytek is working on a lot of fixes for these issues

Players have been bringing up the same things for awhile

[brisk timber]

Yea i do aswell. But i think its beneficial voicing opinions here and talk about the good/bad
those discussion form a resonance sometimes that gets heard

[brisk timber]

Yea. My thoughts aswell.
Nobody wishes for the slow/methodical gameplay to leave. I love ambushing, tracking and the feel of hunting aswell.
But i think its always good to combat elements of unpredictability

[late quartz]

Going back to instinct, again I think a core problem was that it was a zero skill, ultra-low investment way to combat these elements of the game

It's "free awareness"

As we seem to have agreed on, whatever counter does get implemented, it should require some sort of risk and investment

BUT it should still aim to fill the same niche as instinct... just more narrowly tailored to a few jobs rather than every possible job.

[brisk timber]

agree

I just dont wanna end up with no solution at all again

:S

"Welp we tried"

[brisk timber]

In that regard tho a big problem i saw during the event was with that "investment" it also meant that some people had the trait and some people didnt. I think those kind of mechanics somewhat need to be basekit to not introduce imbalances

Its comparable to overtuned traits like doctor where not having it is really a big factor in a fight

[late quartz]

It depends on the specifics a lot. Something like a stalker beetle feels like a reasonably accessible option, where it's something that you may not have on every hunter, but a team of 3 can almost certainly justify bringing at least one

I don't love traits as a catch all solution to things like this, nor do I love consumables due to their finite nature. I think whatever form the solution they choose takes will definitely need to depend on how powerful it is overall

[brisk timber]

definitely agree

[late quartz]

I MYSELF would not mind every hunter having a stalker beetle that can't explode, perhaps on a cooldown etc. but most Hunt players would probably lose their minds at the suggestion of any renewable resource like that

[stark fulcrum]

@late quartz I think more so id like to see a trait investment vs something I carry. That may mean its less effective, but thats what I'd like imo.

[late quartz]

I think R6 Siege is a great example of a game where having intel tools like that as part of your base kit creates boundless depth and an immesurable skill ceiling

[brisk timber]

I dont want the ability to track campers down tied to if i have a fresh hunter or not
Thats one thing thats really annoying about Self Revive aswell
Binding such important functions to prerequisites doesnt really help the base gameplay experience

[stark fulcrum]

Also stalker beetle has a way to go before being viable for me to carry it.

Which you addressed already i know

[late quartz]

Yeah beetles right now are massively underpowered for what they should be good at

Because they gave them explosions LOL