feedback-discussion

[worthy knoll]

Ah yes, let me throw away my Mosin Sniper for a winfield. Great Idea.

[knotty ore]

I don't even snipe majority of my games.

Ironsighted long ammo is pretty trash in rain maps too

Because by the time you see/hear someone, they are in one-tap slug range anyway.

And I for one don't feel like running shotguns every game

Its boring as fuck

[worthy knoll]

This is the Same discussion as With night or Fog. Realistically a Hunter would adjust His Gun to the weather/dont Go hunting in the Fog. But the Game expects you to suck it and Just leave. I still think there should be any Kind of Option for this.

[queen jungle]

Of course you are at a disadvantage. Similarly, you have a significant advantage over others if you happen to get a time of day that fits your loadout.

The devs have emphasised loadout commitment repeatedly: you decide to take certain gear and accept that it comes with pros and cons depending on the situation you end up in.
It's part of Hunt and why it's important to coordinate with your teammate so the two of you do not end up in a hopeless situation.

But sure, if you want to minimise risk and take a "jack of all trades, master of none" loadout, you restrict yourself to certain equipment.

[flat sandal]

Do you really prefer not having a choice when it comes to conditions?

[frigid folio]

You can always go back and grab your sniper again later. I personally would keep the sniper and just put up with the rain > a Winfield but if you feel the Winfield would suit you better in that situation take the Winfield. I gave 1 option to changing it up depending on the conditions of the map, doesn't mean it's the ONLY option.

[flat sandal]

I great deal of loadouts would become a matter of luck

[knotty ore]

That doesn't track. Why have night related items then? When are those ever useful? Should you keep wasting slots and just hope you play a night time map eventually? Even in night time and fog, you can run ALL LOADOUTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE AUDIO. Rain basically makes it so half the loadouts in the game are worthless. All of this is solved by giving players a choice. If they choose to play daytime only contracts, its probably a sign that the other contracts are shit and NOT a sign that you should force everyone to play contracts they don't want to play.

[flat sandal]

With the amount of conditions it would be best to have a subset in rotation for some time period with a night/day wildcard split.

With a super rare inferno occurance for fun

[knotty ore]

I don't mind night and fog. Because there is audio. Just get rain the fuck out of my contracts.

[frigid folio]

Personally I'd love a weather/time of day rotating map. So like starts day, then maybe a rain storm hits and it goes foggy just before going to night or something

[knotty ore]

Fully dynamic would be cool. But, Crytek isn't good at coding.

[frigid folio]

Every load out would have its time to shine

[flat sandal]

Dude

[frigid folio]

I think at the moment it might be a bit too much to ask for, but at a point in time people said the same about a rain map. I wouldn't rule it out in the future that's for sure!

[knotty ore]

When I see snow I'll be a believer lol

[worthy knoll]

Nope. Maybe I want to extract, maybe o want to run away With the Bounty and csmt Go Back. Most of the time that Mosin is Worth more than the Bounty.

[frigid folio]

Clearly the sniper can't have been that important to you if you're not willing to go back and get it 💁‍♂️

[frigid folio]

Hopefully soon hahaha! Snow would be amazing! Would be like rain, but the sounds would be magnified instead of nullified 😅

[little carbon]

Thats a you issue though. Most people, myself included, don't have an issue hearing and seeing people in rain well over 20m which is already well outside slug one shot range.
Rifles work absolutely fine within compound distance.

[worthy knoll]

Thats Just stupid. Because I would never Put that tun away in the First place so when I have Bounty and everybody knows where i am i can leave and Not make detours 😉

It would be best If you could Just... Remove the scope entirely. For the whole Match.

[flat sandal]

To be fair, more poor visibility conditions will always favour shorter range loadouts.

[frigid folio]

Just remove scopes entirely would be a better option tbh

Although they are fine on winnie and springy imo anything else though should be removed

[flat sandal]

The against choice arguments are weird, what's up with that?

[little carbon]

This is an argument based on realism which already makes it somewhat weak, but even if realism were important the argument doesn't hold, since hunters might just not have opportunity to prepare.

And from a game design point having that kind of loadout commitment is really good. Gets you to build well rounded loadouts, learn to use your weapons in non-standard situations and also for your team to build a well rounded loadout.

[flat sandal]

I hope you mean detachable and not from the game. Where is this going here? 😄

[frigid folio]

Nah I mean from the game 😂

[flat sandal]

Dam short rangers 😛

[flat sandal]

It's not really good design if people leave the match

And narrows down the loadouts as well. With a growing number of conditions it will narrow it further while it could increase it if you have the choice

[worthy knoll]

Well yes They do? As far as I know Hunters are Not Slaves. They want to Hunt. They are Not forced.
So they can very much Take a Look Out the Window/Coach whatever and say "nope, today is Not a scope day" or of the Fog "surprises" Them leave before the Match Starts. No exploding collar to Stop Them, No minefield either.

[little carbon]

That's why there should be two contracts. But not as free choice but as choice with a cost.

Have a full random contract with normal rewards and a pure day contract with less rewards.
The people who can't deal can just play day

[frigid folio]

Nah, they just aren't needed hahaha like I'll take fights with my irons sights against players that are just tiny dots. If you cant do it with irons you just arent good enough.... yet 😉 practice makes perfect. Scopes just encourage bush camping (all of this is my personal opinion, I know others opinions will be different)

And I love the occasional snipe every now and then too, it just feels like you've switched the game to easy mode though

[flat sandal]

But i really want night gameplay with a fitting loadout^^

[worthy knoll]

Heavily against it because all ideas for this were horrible. Priple were talking about stuff Like 50% less If everything: Bounty, experience, Money found!
Just make this day contract a forced single Boss so everyone has to Fight over the Same Thing and a "Sniper unfriendly" compound means you cannot Just Take the other Bounty.

[knotty ore]

I'm fine with not getting bounty reward for playing only daytime. I'd rather enjoy playing Hunt, don't care about Hunt currency.

That contract would be used overwhelmingly by the community and you'd just be back here bitching that no one is playing the crap rain contract and how mommy Crytek needs to force all the other kids to play with you.

[sullen lodge]

I absolutely hate the rain. I don't know why they kept it. The removed the fire but not the rain?

[mystic ridge]

[flat sandal]

Brah

Who's bitching here?

It was an odd choice to have this much rain during an event when ppl want to unlock all the stuff though

[vital fractal]

I don’t think it was odd when it fit the exact story

Besides it’s temporary, now the chances will be lowered significantly and the traits are gone- that’s what’s part of the event, significant gameplay changes for a couple months then back to normal

[flat sandal]

Yes but they changed it mid event and the BPs purpose is to make ppl play more and then you make them do it under extreme conditions. Of course that pisses a lot of ppl of.

It fine to experiment with that between events but it's kinda forces ppl participating in the experiment. Might pay of long term but is kinda patronising.

And yes i know that "forcing" s a debatable term

[dull mason]

Damn.

[shadow prairie]

How on earth can a game designed for windows, tested with windows, ironed out with windows in mind have less fps on windows compared to linux?

Why do keyboard layouts bug out on windows 10 and 11 in hunt showdown and do not switch while within the game while on linux they switch normally?

Why the heck does hunt showdown use letters from a secondary keyboard layout in tooltips within the game under windows while linux manages to use the main layout somehow?

It almost feels like if crytek tries to do something the exact opposite happens

It's just funny as hell that the game runs better on linux in so many ways. I assume that's because Crytek does not optimize hunt for linux yet... The moment they do - they will match the linux fps to that of windows. Make keyboard bug like hell and all that

Where do I even submit all that as a bug? :( At least the keyboard part

[analog willow]

#bug-reports-pc

[shadow prairie]

Thank you, will do!

[queen hornet]

Feedback: Ping system coloration of marker

When I am playing with my friends due to the color of the foliage and my color blindness I am not able to see where they ping effectively unless they do the red ping variant of it. I would love to be able to alter the coloration of the ping to make it stand out more for me.

[orchid totem]

When is Crytek going to upgrade or at least improve/fix their servers?
Frequent Disconnects, frequent unable to disconnect bugs, frequent lags.

[analog willow]

!plans

[marsh garden]

Some of the plans for the future of Hunt with references:

Servers are the number one priority to address in 2023 - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=756
New map is in the works, will be a new biome - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=2439
New boss this summer, a wild target outside of compounds - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=1285
Update to Cryengine 5.11, DX12 and current gen console support - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=2292
New modes and custom lobbies are considered for 2024 - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=2506

[late quartz]

@obsidian narwhal #game-ideas message
Super interesting suggestion. I'm not sure I'm 100% on board for the suggested alternative, but the core concept of changing how wild target tokens work feels really insightful.

Bounty targets are, at heart, a way to get players to converge on an area and spark PvP encounters. Wild targets as we've seen them so far create unpredictable risky fights in often unbalanced parts of the map. The risk of killing, banishing, and collecting the token from Rotjaw is rarely worth the uncertainty and vulnerability that comes along with it (let alone the pitiful bounty reward).
Rethinking the incentives, advantages, and disadvantages associated with bounty tokens makes complete sense given that the circumstances under which they're obtained is totally different when we look at wild targets versus normal bosses.

[obsidian narwhal]

:>

[onyx edge]

Please make the reconnect feature more reliable, it often entirely doesnt work or takes several attempts.

[obsidian narwhal]

The suggested alternative is just that, a suggestion. I'm not a game designer and have no idea of how much that'd balance the whole thing because it's a completely new concept but thankfully there's people whose job it is to actually improve on ideas to make them viable 😄

[analog willow]

Just read the idea as well. Looks good! With it being permanent, an argument could be made that it might actually be stronger than the regular bounty. Might be something they could add for a limited time for an event to test out

[dull mason]

I really like the suggestion but does the wearer still have their location showing on the map (via lightning strike)? If not I think it would be too much and should be replaced with normal instinct.

[limber star]

lot of dislikes on my suggestion

who couldve guessed that official is filled with camping shitters 🤯

[kindred compass]

please stop rain !!!!!!!!!!!

[limber star]

fr ^^^

[trail carbon]

Why do you guys hate the rain so much?

Especially you, @limber star, as you were just complaining about camping. Rain gives you the best opportunity to counteract camping

[limber star]

rain used to be ok

but now people just play like they do on night

sitting and doing nothing its just boring

yet another time of day to dodge

[trail carbon]

Maybe it seems like people are doing nothing because everyone leaves, expecting others to do the same. If people stopped leaving matches because they didn't get daytime, I don't think there would be a problem.

I, for one, am so damn tired of daytime

[limber star]

well thats unfortunate, people are still going to leave dogshit maps

nobody to blame but the playerbase playing like such garbage

[trail carbon]

I mean, I'm still having fun playing on rain maps, it's pretty active. Maybe one squad will leave, but I don't see many people sitting around because that gets you killed.

[limber star]

well i wish i had a similar experience

[late quartz]

Coming up with solutions to problems is easy. Coming up with good solutions is hard.

Camping sucks, sure, but the idea that "real matches only take 15 minutes" doesn't reflect my experience, and probably doesn't reflect the experience of most players.
Tons of longer matches are interesting, fun, and often best bolster Hunt's unique gameplay.

Camping sucks, but the solution to camping should to tailored to that end with as few negative reprocussions as possible. This ain't it.

[limber star]

if you think that games should be lasting 45 minutes thats a yikes

that is so fucking boring

[late quartz]

Okay so don't couch your aversion to long games as some panacea camping solution LOL you just don't want 45 minute matches

Just say that: 45 minute matches are lame in my opinion and I want them shorter

[hardy coral]

It's 45 minutes so after you win after about 20-30 minutes you have time to consolidate your winnings and extract.

[late quartz]

Pretending you have some other motivation is yikes

If you wanna fix camping I am with you, camping is bad gameplay. This isn't the best (or even a good) solution to that problem.

[limber star]

no i wont say that because decreasing the time would increase the stakes

increasing stakes means less passive gameplay

[limber star]

who the hell needs 20-30 minutes to "consolidate winnings"

what

[late quartz]

Okay but... it seems like you do believe exactly what I said. You just defended what I said lol

"Longer matches are so fucking boring"
"Decreasing the time would increase stakes"

[hardy coral]

Looting the bodies, banishing bosses and collecting tokens, killing AI for XP, picking up tool boxes cash and envelopes.

[late quartz]

"45 minute matches are lame and i want them shorter" is literally a paraphrase of your position

[limber star]

imma give you a few minutes because clearly you are misunderstanding everything

[hardy coral]

[limber star]

i really cant explain it any simpler

[hardy coral]

You lessen camping by improving the compounds and throwables mostly.

[limber star]

do i need to write it in big letters

[late quartz]

Yes please do

[hardy coral]

Reducing the time just reduces the time people have in game, it'll end up the same way.

[late quartz]

If you can restate your position in a way that doesn't fit my characterization I'll be shocked

[hardy coral]

People will just camp for 10 minutes instead of 20.

[iron trench]

@limber star I agree with you... but 30 minutes is too much time drop...
maybe 40 or 35 minutes would be much better. 35 i think is the perfect time.

[limber star]

what kind of match takes 35 minutes? one with camping

[late quartz]

oml lul

[hardy coral]

I've had matches last close to full time just because teams stay moving.

[limber star]

personally i think it should be reduced to 20 minutes but i knew that would be to far for you guys

[hardy coral]

Wow

So you hate the game.

[limber star]

yea i do actually

[late quartz]

So "I want shorter matches because I think long matches are lame" still seems exactly like your position

[hardy coral]

Burnt for bad grammar.

[iron trench]

Your talking about your own point of view... there are 3 and 4 star players that doesn't have your 3 thousand hours of gameplay... and can't play rushing like you do all the time.

[iron trench]

There is always the option of just extract and get in another match...

[hardy coral]

Or pull away and see if they move.

[late quartz]

I mean yeah I think decreasing the match time from an hour to 45 was a mistake too

But y'know w/e it's done

[hardy coral]

If they're not moving because you're right outside they'll often start moving if you peel off and then you'll end up in a position where you can fight on relatively even terrain.

[iron trench]

Crytek at the time said that less than 5 or 3% (i don't remember) of games last more than 45 minutes... so they were saving up space in servers by reducing the timer.

[hardy coral]

Still, people have to accept that even if camping was objectively a bad strat people would still do it because they either like doing it or are scared to do otherwise.

You can still basically full farm the map if you don't win too late with 45 mins. I didn't mind the change.

Any further wouldn't work out, even 40 mins.

[late quartz]

Sure I mean... Might've been a good business move but I still feel it's a very minor harm to the quality of the game

Not saying I'd advocate it be reversed, but I think it was a "bad move" in terms of what makes hunt showdown the best game it can be on paper

[dull mason]

Matches can take a long time while people are playing actively and action is constant

Some times it just happens that the teams trickle slowly into the compound, or each team has a long fight before reaching the boss lair, which could have an entire 3v3 happening at 15-20 mins into the game

Plus people talk about dodging low visibility maps all the time, which I think is silly. But dodging campers is something that is easily done and honestly sometimes feels rewarding for me.

[hot vigil]

@azure osprey Hey, just wanna ask about your battlepass experience, did you join late into the even or?

[trail carbon]

@hallow pasture You are aware that self-res is giving advantage to body campers on purpose, right? Self revive would be completely ridiculous if it gave I-Frames or gave you any feasible chance of killing someone watching your body.

[late quartz]

@hallow grove #feedback message

Would you please elaborate on what you didn't like about burn traits?
It seems like losing a trait is better than losing a health chunk upon death, or losing your entire hunter should you lose a match. Giving up a trait to get all your bars back also seems like a pretty reasonable tradeoff.

What part of the burn mechanic felt discouraging and/or intolerable?
What sort of changes do you think would help make them more appealing to you?

[rotund obsidian]

I really only liked remedy as a burn trait because it was always an active choice to use it. yes relentless was still good but it wasn't as interactive and was kinda just an afterthought between fights. I didn't care for gunrunner at all.

[late quartz]

I liked gunrunner a lot but I don't think it should've been a burn trait

[hot vigil]

I took gunrunner, but only for the +2 ammo, so I just never took other weapons to burn it

[rotund obsidian]

i think even if you just pick somebody else's gun up for ammo (then switch back), it now treats your own gun as contraband

felt too easy to burn gunrunner without intent tbh

[late quartz]

I'm just not sure why it burning off is even necessary.
If you can consistently go into matches and trade up for gear of greater value than what you brought in and sell it... That feels deserved? I seriously don't think the games economy would be thrown into inflation chaos here. Somebody still has to spend hunt bux on that gun, and you're only reselling it for a fraction of its original value anyway.

The other burn traits are... Frankly pretty obvious.

[hot vigil]

Well, contraband was added bc too many people didn't played the bounty and just extracted with expensive weapons.

[late quartz]

Sure but I'm not really sure contraband prevents you from doing that

In order to trade up you still need to win a fight

I think Hunt's ambiguous victory state is one of its best features. You don't need to take a bounty token out of a match to "win"

Its not like this encourages farming in grey zone or something, unless you're truly insane and want to go hunt for world spawn nitros and uppercuts

[hot vigil]

Well, they didn't change that much more ever since they added that and people stopped complaining, so it seemed it solved the issue

[frigid folio]

What if they keep contraband status but if you extract with a bounty it removes the contraband status on your current loadout items? Best of both worlds

[late quartz]

I mean... Did gun runner increase the complaints?

[hot vigil]

Gunrunner lived in a world where it was burn trait and not on the same tree as shadow or instinct :b

[late quartz]

Sure, but if people are determined to play this way you'd still see those players using the trait I'd imagine

So think the risk seems... Relatively small

Practically non-existent

[hot vigil]

More that it was something that was gated behind a lot of other choices.
If it is a baseline option, you'd see it be more frequent.

[late quartz]

Keep in mind the game has changed dramatically since contraband was added. The way the game is played, players understanding of it's combat and their desire to engage in PVP have all changed in the... What... 4 years since this was added

[hot vigil]

True also just the sheer amount of money you just earn

it ain't as much of an issue

But dunno, if you extract with the big gun, then using the big gun is reward enough

[late quartz]

Meh. I'm not sure why giving players the option to spend resources to choose if they agree is an issue

I'm sitting on a mountain of dolches and C&Ks that I'll never use cause I find them incredibly uninteresting to play

I'd trade them for cash to spend on flashes and frags lul

[hot vigil]

Dunno, think the prime money maker should always be the bounty

[late quartz]

Yeah I mean I agree, and that's really not at conflict with gunrunner

Adjusting the resale price of weapons seems like a pretty easy balancing lever

Alternatively you can have the trait automatically sell items on extract at a unique price multiplier if you're really super worried about externalities

[neon basalt]

please fix the stuttering, some days the games runs great, some others seriously this game runs pretty bad, it is a game braker, specially in close quarters fights, im playing with a 4080, i713700k and 32gb of ram, eventhough the game runs perfectly fine above 165FPS it feels pretty unstable...we will appreciate more information about what is being done about this annoying issue, thanks and have a great night

[hallow pasture]

The advantages for the bullcrap lame shit campers is bigger than the one having to revive.

But OK, whatever. Seems like all the down votes are from people who like to farm kills that wa

[unborn dagger]

Or it's just because your suggestion is bad?

[hallow pasture]

Sorry man, I can't take PS players serious

[unborn dagger]

Lmao

[empty oasis]

@onyx edge

Title: Reduce uppermat price
Description: The uppermat is a pretty uncommon pick now, particularly when compared to the uppercut. I believe it should be priced similarly to the obrez.

The uppermat gets 4 extra rounds before reloading over the obrez, its total ammo pool is 3 rounds higher, it has less sway, doesnt need bulletgrubber, has less spread, fires faster, and has a shotgun

The only thing the obrez has for it is 13 more dmg, twice the hs range, and 100m/s velocity

Realistically, the price is fine

[trail carbon]

Self revive isn't designed to be use in combat. It was designed to compensate for trades. You should never be allowed to stand up in someone's face and kill them (Unless they are incredibly unaware)

[trail carbon]

I actually really hate sitting over a solo player's corpse, and I definitely don't care about farming kills. The reason that I sit over a solo's corspe is to ensure that they do not get up and kill me.

I personally wish necromancer (solo revive included) was removed completely, and they fixed the trading system.

[little jackal]

imagine you're already dead, you've lost the fight, and you still want to be able to do something against people purposefully camping your dead body

self necro has always been a mistake

[little carbon]

You cant "fix" the trading system. Well, technically you can remove trades, but the game would be worse for it.
Because you either have to delay all deaths to the point where the server has all required information or you go back to what we had before and make the system more unfair.
And even then trades due to travel time will still exist

And team necro isnt a problem. Its pretty loud and takes a while. You have ample time to push someone if they try to necro.
Solo necro is a different topic though. Its not too strong, but its current implementation is lackluster since it halts gameplay because you have to watch a body for so long. But that could be fixed by adding a time limit to self necro

[hardy coral]

Team necro is pretty quiet.

The body gives no indication it is about to get up, buffed resilience makes this worse.

[rotund obsidian]

obrez also has double the range before damage dropoff starts to kick in (40 vs 20). This gives the obrez a whopping 150m two-tap range to chest, while the uppermat only gets a 68m two-tap. Also, I'd say the headshot range is a little closer to 3x as much on the obrez (314 vs 112). I don't think those positives you listed really make up for the downsides tbh, but it'd be an interesting niche if the price wasn't exorbitant. The uppermat costs around 50% more than the obrez, and yet fails to match its effectiveness imo. I also find it disappointing how reliant on slugs the underbarrel is to actually do anything, which adds another $65 to the pricetag if you actually plan to use it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the uppermat and have used it a good few times so far, but it definitely feels like a (kinda mediocre) sidearm when it should be able to stand a little better on its own with a pricetag like that (plus the medium slot requirement)

[wanton imp]

the uppermat has its upsides though 18 long ammo, faster firerate, and the extra shotgun ammo is great for the slate and C&K
and sway and spread is slighty better. and FMJ remedies the drop range for the uppermat. (30 meters)

[dusky tapir]

uppermat works pretty decently perkless as well. Obrez likes its iron perks and bulletgrubber

[hot vigil]

@iron trench Sorry, but even a handcannon variant of a shotgun combination rifle, That variant would be a straight upgrade over normal Caldwell Handcannon and there would never be any reason to pick the Caldwell Handcannon unless you were struggling for money. And same if you reverse the barrel, so you got the Drilling layout, then it would just be a straight upgrade from the Romero Handcannon.

[vital fractal]

Again, I’m for the uppercut and upper mat swapping damage values

The UpperMat shotgun buckshot is near useless however, it’s just an ammo slave

It’s reliant on straight slugs for kills or dragonsbreath as support

[hot vigil]

Even better, make the Uppercut deal sub 125 dmg.

[hallow pasture]

The body camping is bullshit. Shoot down once more or burn and leave.
With extreme low hp they're bound to leave the match, try to extract.
People are just farming kills.

There is no way to get up and leave, you'll be downed before being even able to look. Even before you got the weapon animation done.

Yes, either remove it entirely, or rethink the way it works. Make timer longer perhaps.

[hot vigil]

Lmao, stop trying having your free death cheat

Solo Necro is not meant to be a get out of jail free card, just a safety if you traded or got hit by a long distance headshot from dualies. A bad luck mitigatory system.

[late quartz]

Being defenseless is sort of the price you pay for fucking dying lul

But, tbqh, I'm actually totally in agreement that the body camping dynamic is lame.
Not because it makes self-revive too weak, but because it's not fun for either party. Making fire disable self-necro (or my preferred method of adding a new tool that denies magic like necro and serpent within its AOE) means that the dynamic of waiting around for a solo to burn out is gone.
No more frustrating self-revive loops. If you die in close range and get burned immediately you can just leave, the other team can move on instead of camping.

If a team kills you in close range and doesn't burn you, you know they're probably just camping and can leave immediately if you want.

Obviously, changes like removing the K/D and MMR changes for freshly self-revived players is necessary too, and would disincentivize a slew of unhealthy behaviors

[onyx edge]

100m/s and that 13 damage make a world of a difference, it’s not “only”. That damage let’s it one-tap someone down a small, which is even more important nowadays due to free respec and the resilience buff. The shotgun requires special ammo to be remotely useful, bumping its price up even further. It has more rounds loaded, but is excruciatingly slow to reload compared to the obrez with its clip. Obrez also has access to spitzer.

[late quartz]

The biggest benefits of long ammo are the penetration, damage over range, and the fact that long ammo guns almost always have >125 damage.

The uppermat only really has the penetration, since its damage over range is quite bad compared to both the obrez and even the centennial shorty, your two other reliable medium slot rifles.

I really don't think the penetration is much to write home about either considering the obrez exists with all its benefits, and the centennial shorty can grab FMJ and only lose out 18m/s against the Uppermat.

Being an elaborate way to carry slightly more long ammo for your rifle feels like a pretty narrow niche to cut out for it. Taking quartermaster, giving up your secondary weapon for $400 instead of just... bringing an ammo box seems pretty derranged LOL

[hot vigil]

LeMat Uppercut ain't bad, just that most other long ammo weapon is overtuned.

[vital fractal]

It isn’t bad at all but the fact it can be out performed by centennial shorty with fmj is a little sus

Again, if it had the upper cut 126 dmg- it would be a great bridge between mosin and upper cut (assuming uppercut got nerfed down to 120)

[late quartz]

It shoots bullets and kills people. It's a usable weapon by all counts but this is a game of opportunity cost and comparative strengths.

Guns being usable or "not bad" isn't the metric by which we need to assess their balance. Weapons need to have distinct reasons for being played over other alternative choices.

The uppermat's only real saving grace is you get to pay 4~5x extra to have a pocket slug romero which adds to your primary weapon's ammo pool.
In my eyes I can't really justify it over a better dedicated secondary shotgun. There are numerous ways to manage your ammo in Hunt at this point that "it gives you some ammo" is a pretty bad reason for a gun to exist imo

Especially when slugs are balanced in a way that means the normal lemat has the same slug performance as the uppermat lol

If all the other long ammo weapons in the game are unbalanced, fine, that's a good reason to rework them
Until we get the legendary long ammo rework tho, it doesn't make sense to leave the brand new weapon in limbo. When the big old sweeping rework comes and nerfs a half dozen other weapons, we can just revert the uppermat to its current state lul

[vital fractal]

Oh, for sure- the upper mat is a choice of passion rather than choice of performance

[hot vigil]

@tardy flame Ain't... ain't that just a normal vitality shot?

[tardy flame]

yeah, but this makes every regen shot found in game useful for close quarters, also regen costs 20 dollars, it would make a full healt shot cheaper

[vital fractal]

So, essentially a perk to make $20 full vit shots bruh

🗿

[hot vigil]

Yeah

that sure is an idea

[hallow pasture]

At least you get it in a way.
The entire thing needs to be redone.
How it is now is wrong.

People are using it to their benefits, for dethreating, fix this.
The k/d improvement needs to be fixed to get rid of campers.
Perhaps in a way I suggested, or similar.
Just a few things there to be thought about.

Instead of burying ideas with saltyness.. Come with a fix folks.. How hard can that be.

I mean, tbh.. If you're afraid you're gonna get revenge killed from a solo... Move on,go out of his/her way.
Don't let them get you... Don't just go lame ass body camping.
Put one trap on the body or burn it and go away. That's many hp bars gone.. Doesn't encourage the solo to go after a party while having a disadvantage in health on top of more players to deal with.

If this all is like a free card to keep your hunter, and none of you agree with it needing changes, big woop... You still need to make it out of there towards an extraction.. You can encounter enough possible scenarios you'd be encountering in any other situation that get you killed again.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, except I don't always have the option to burn. (I play solo as well) so I can't send a teammate to go look for a lantern. Also, I can't just burn and leave since you can still get up while burning. I have to wait until the body is fully burned or risk getting shot in the back.

I have died way too many times to solo revive to not ensure that they are fully dead

Saying "don't let them get you" is pretty goofy, not going to lie. I feel like 90% of people camping a solo corpse aren't looking to farm their K/D, and most just don't like the idea of being shot in the back.

[trail carbon]

I have come up with a fix. Remove it and fix the base problem: trading. Also, remove KDA, I've been saying that for years.

[trail carbon]

Putting "one trap on them and moving on" doesn't reliably work considering resilience is a trait often taken by solos. As a solo, if someone kills me and doesn't burn me out, I will do my best to kill them to encourage them to burn solo bodies in the future.

But all in all, I really hate sitting over a solo body, and almost every time I try to just leave, they get up and I have to kill them again. I hate this whole dynamic, and I think solo revive was an annoying mistake.

[hallow pasture]

What I mainly mean by this is that you can easily move on and outmanouvre any attempt of getting to you.
It's not like that's not already a big part of the game.

I'm not gonna deny you got some points, but hey.. they added it, just in a poorly thought out manner, it needs fixing.

[late quartz]

Leaving people the opportunity to come back and shoot at you later isn't that appealing

When you wipe a team, you clear up variables. Killing a solo should be no different

I agree that solo necro creates a lot of pretty lame incentives and encourages weird behavior, the problem is your suggestion aims to aleviate those concerns by buffing solo players which seems like a pretty unpopular approach

[hallow pasture]

If you died, lost a bar.
If you get burned, they are obviously still closeby, you're not gonna revive yourself right away then now are you? there lost another bar.

How appealing is it to go with that huge of a loss and disadvantages to go after them when they moved on.
tbf, I see none.

[late quartz]

I'll be honest I don't see your point

[hallow pasture]

Would you go after a team that killed you, (-1bar)
Burned you (possibly -1bar again)
Just to be killed instant by one small caliber?

[late quartz]

#1 because most players like PvP
#2 because going to banish a boss will get you your bars back
#3 because people are petty

[hallow pasture]

Not to mention, they're likely wielding higher caliber guns.

[late quartz]

Sure, if a solo player stands up and just books it to extract that's one thing I guess. I think a lot of players would rather try to get back into the fight, banish a boss and maybe get a chunk back."

If not, if we're just assuming most solo players will dip out of a match... why do we want solo players keeping their hunters for free?

Either way... it's not appealing to give them that choice

I don't want to RISK a solo player getting back up and harassing me in a team fight at boss lair later

I want them to be back in the lobby like everybody else LUL

[hallow pasture]

Sure, but why would you as a team go camp the body, the solo is in a loss already, then needs to find the lair, kill the boss to get it back.
This all together is risky enough, just because of the basic Hunt gameplay you'd encounter even if you didn't revive yet.

People just need to move on is the most basic answer, but hey... they just don't.
So think of something else to fix it.

[late quartz]

I don't want to camp the body. I want to burn them and leave. I don't like sitting around for 2 minutes while a dude burns out I think that's super lame gameplay, but that's what I'm forced to do

Let me level with you I guess. I wanna identify specifically what you don't like here. Which of these are your main problem

Solo players aren't able to reliably get back up and leave the mission with their hunter alive
Solo players can't fight back well enough after using necro during fights
Solo players are encouraged to sit around trying to revive, which is usually a waste of time because they're being camped

If none of those are how you'd characterize your position, feel free to give your own answer

[hallow pasture]

Solo players aren't able to reliably get back up and leave the mission with their hunter alive
True, due to camping, lets think of a way to fix this, getting out of a fight is a tactic too, now a team can get revived and choose that tactic, but solo's can't

Solo players can't fight back well enough after using necro during fights
It's a risk you'd be willing to take to fight back at a disadvantage that's acceptable, now you just get gunned while getting up in the first place, what's there to have done?

Solo players are encouraged to sit around trying to revive, which is usually a waste of time because they're being camped
Because of what's above.

[late quartz]

It's a risk you'd be willing to take to fight back at a disadvantage that's acceptable, now you just get gunned while getting up in the first place, what's there to have done?
As others have stated, and I broadly agree with, solo necro isn't supposed to save you if you get killed in a straight up duel or close range fight. It's moreso a tool to let you get back up at range or in messy team fights where nobody can tell that you're a solo.

If you die in a 1v3 and the team can fully reset after killing you, I don't believe Necro should be a viable option.

True, due to camping, lets think of a way to fix this, getting out of a fight is a tactic too, now a team can get revived and choose that tactic, but solo's can't
I don't believe solo players should be able to get their hunter back up after dying and go to extract for free. I think most people would probably agree that losing your hunter on death is a major part of Hunt's core gameplay and identity, and solo players should not be an exception to this.

[hallow pasture]

I mean, death cheat was worse.

I don't believe solo players should be able to get their hunter back up after dying and go to extract for free. I think most people would probably agree that losing your hunter on death is a major part of Hunt's core gameplay and identity, and solo players should not be an exception to this.
And yet, that's what teams can do, and solo's can't.
But it's a choice nonetheless

[late quartz]

Maybe? Depends on your outlook. Either way it's not in the game anymore, and until it becomes a permanent addition it's hard to use it as a counterpoint here.

One of the reasons why I'd disagree is that is because death cheat may let you keep your hunter, it doesn't let you continue to play that match. There's no risk of you coming back and shooting me in the back if you use death cheat.

Obviously yes, it lets you keep your hunter which seems antithetical to Hunt's design, but it's a lesser harm WITHIN the match because it means a dead player can't continue to play

[trail carbon]

I hated death cheat as well though. If I kill someone, I want them to stay that way. I will do everything in my power to keep them that way. For solos, that means waiting until their body is burned out.

I was going to continue, but Pyrrhic basically said what I was going to say

[late quartz]

I somewhat agree, and this is why redskull revives are horrible design.

Burning a player should be the end, allowing teammates to fuck off and come back later runs against the clever and unique burn mechanic which is in place to encourage players to stay and fight to keep their teammate in the game.

[hallow pasture]

There's many factors that play a part in Necro needing a change for the solo part.

[late quartz]

If a trio loses a player and they walk away waiting to redskull revive later, I think that's unhealthy gameplay

If a trio decides to abandon their burning teammate with no opportunity to revive them later, that's perfectly fine gameplay imo

[hallow pasture]

All we're doing now is debating it, that's good.
Better than the salty shitstorms usually getting by idea's.

[late quartz]

I mean yeah people prefer to take easy dunks than actually figure out what people are saying

Such is the nature of the internet

[hallow pasture]

ofcourse, and solo's can't. so why should Necro be so negative towards solo's.

[late quartz]

Well, I'd prefer nobody can, I think redskull revives are toxic and should be removed.

but eithe way, necro isn't negative for solos, it's ONLY positive to have the option to self revive. It's just not a panacea to dying.

As I said earlier, everybody agrees that solo necro isn't balanced well, and that it creates unhealthy gameplay.
The disagreement is that you feel it should be buffed, where I think most people think it should be nerfed

Both buffs and nerfs can fix the problem realistically

[hallow pasture]

Ofcourse, it's like 2/10 times I can revive myself in a way you describe.

The rest is just blatant bodycamping.

[late quartz]

Yeah for sure, but a 20% chance at a second chance after you lose the game feels like a pretty sick deal

Necro should be like a second life every time you're downed y'know? That feels weird.

[hallow pasture]

Just set the timer to 1 minute.

[late quartz]

That just means the camping takes longer

It's more annoying to wait a minute and get camped than 10 seconds and get camped lol

[hallow pasture]

Enough time to either burn, move on, trap the shit out of it and move on.

idk, it's a waste for both parties

Who's gonna do that camping if it's a bigger waste for you.

[late quartz]

It is, it's horrible gameplay

But that's how like boss lair camping works too

And people will sit in a stalemate for 20+ minutes in this game LOL

People are petty

[trail carbon]

Yeah, it sucks a lot, but I'll do it if it removes a risk of me dying.

[trail carbon]

Don't even get me started on lair camping. God that shit annoys me

[hallow pasture]

I mean, let the timer be 1 minute, no sane person is willingly gonna wait one minute at the chance the solo might be able to revive.
Move on, far out of the way/out of revenge range, find the lair, do some more fighing there, play the game.
Hell, the solo doesn't know where you went in the first place.

[late quartz]

My ideal solution: Remove the incentives to body camp (K/D and MMR), then make it faster to fully disable necro on players so that you don't need to sit around waiting as a team (a faster way to deny revives than waiting for a burn)

Making it so a team can fully deny a self-res more quickly means they get to move on, and the solo player can go back to lobby and start a new match sooner

[trail carbon]

If there was a one minute timer, I'd kill a solo, and then set a one minute timer on my phone or something just to ensure that they can't come back.

I like Pyrrhic's solution

[late quartz]

Burning takes a long time and frustrates both sides. As long as you can't deny necro easily in the situations where it's meant ot be strong (chaotic team fights, long range) it's not really much of a nerf at all

If I have full control over your body, you have no teammates, there's nobody else around

[trail carbon]

I think fire should disable necro (team necro included)

[late quartz]

Yeah I should just be able to put a stake through your heart or something, do a funny ritual to banish you soul

Take 15~20 seconds instead of 2 minutes to burn

[hallow pasture]

This is fine by me.

[hallow pasture]

Yea, why the hell not.

[late quartz]

There are two big reasons why I don't think fire is the best solution to necro

[hallow pasture]

Both good ideas to block self res.

[late quartz]

#1, fire is very quick and leaves little room for counterplay

#2, fire is very common. Forcing players to bring specific tools to deny revives feels like a bigger investment and it feels more dynamic

[trail carbon]

Yeah, that's fair.

[hallow pasture]

Those 2 idea's are a great counter for sure.
Doesn't take away the problem of being extremely vulnerable to even a fart so to say and instant die.

[trail carbon]

Take resilience

[hallow pasture]

Yea, that works great, but not on every gun tho.

[trail carbon]

I mean, it won't matter, because I'll just headshot a solo in the very predictable standing up animation

[hallow pasture]

Which is way too slow

Back to my first post.

[trail carbon]

Ehhh, I feel like revival should be very easily punished

If someone revives in front of me, I have to expened at least one bullet to put them back down.

I feel like that's fair.

[hallow pasture]

Nothing really wrong with that tbf.

[trail carbon]

I shouldn't be punished for playing well, you know.

[late quartz]

If somebody can shoot you right away as soon as you stand up you should probably be defenseless.

I don't think self revive should give you a chance to win a fight against somebody right away

It's fine if you have like... 2-3 seconds of space

[trail carbon]

If I kill someone and stand over their body, I shouldn't die for that.

Unless I am very unaware

[hallow pasture]

Exactly, unawareness, which pretty much none is.

Unless you're in 3star lob

xD

That's a whole other world

Back to unawareness, so now the delay is like 2-3 sec to just stand up, still got to take out a weapon, because this animation isn't combined within getting up, another 2 seconds. before it's finally done and you can move around to cover or run away whatever you want, you're shot.
I can't see how even someone that's a bit unaware can miss a 5 second window.

[trail carbon]

...

Yeah, me neither. Definitely never done that

[late quartz]

2-3 seconds was my guesstimate for the full thing, gun included

I'm sure somebody could go time it but it's not 5+ lol

[hallow pasture]

Ye, well, I got shot so many times while the gun didn't even come up in my hands yet.. so ye.. it's long, not 5 sec, but long.

[trail carbon]

It's like 2 seconds I think

[hallow pasture]

Can't even move around untill all animations are done for.

[trail carbon]

I'll test it right now

[hallow pasture]

But you're vulnerable nonteless.

I've looked at some recordings, it's a full 3 seconds all together.

[trail carbon]

Its 1.3 seconds beofre you can move

[late quartz]

Shouldn't you be vulnerable?

In my opinion, if you're being necro'd, be it in a team or solo, the enemy players around you should need to be distracted for you to successfully stand and get away.
Do you agree with that?

The alternative is that a necro'd player has a fighting chance of winning against a player who is actively paying attention to them as they stand up.

[hallow pasture]

In my opinion, if you're being necro'd, be it in a team or solo, the enemy players around you should need to be distracted for you to successfully stand and get away.
Do you agree with that?
Not so easy for a solo, but yea, I could get to agree a bit there.

The alternative is that a necro'd player has a fighting chance of winning against a player who is actively paying attention to them as they stand up.
If it's in a team, the necro'd player will have help from his team to get distractions and or help to get to cover and continue.
Solo, well, need I say more?

[late quartz]

If you're in gunslinger and you're SPAMMING the fire button you can fire ~2.5s from the moment you press revive

[late quartz]

Sure. You're right, teams have an easier time using necro. Teams in general have the advantage over solos. Solo necro isn't meant to equalize that advantage, it's just a small situational opportunity for solo players to get a second chance

[hallow pasture]

Aren't team necro's opportunity bound too.

Yet, always have a rs revive option open there.

[late quartz]

Redskull revives are extremely dumb and I don't really know why they added them

The burn mechanic was INCREDIBLY smartly designed. The idea that a player needs to risk their life to save their teammate or choose to abandon them for the whole match is a very very clever way to discourage players from just running away, sitting in a corner and waiting for the other team to get bored and move on

[hallow pasture]

Just throwing it out there, what if, for a portion of your left over hp bars, you could 'crawl' idk, dark sight magic stuff in the game, revive a couple of meters away, make the body sink in a puthole of dark mess and reappear in a set radius.

Or costless, idk. you already down a bar

That's 2 problems solved in a way.
Campers can camp whatever they want, you'll pop up randomly, as long as it's on the ground, not in a building or whatever.
Necro'd solo, doesn't know where he'll pop up, has a chance to continue like any team necro (or without)could.

It's not always a guarantee that the solo will seek revenge, neither do teams.
Again, bailing out after reviving is a tactic too.

||And for the thousandtrillionth time, get rid of redskull revives.||

[hardy coral]

I don't think redskull is such a big issue seeing as you can't do it via necro now.

It should probably take longer though.

I do believe you should be able to get up a full burnt or killed teammate, incentivises you to stay in the match for bounty instead of leaving. Maybe even just limit it to one red-skull on each player.

[vital fractal]

Redskull is fine, you literally lose health while reviving and it takes a long time to revive while requiring you to be there

If you cancel reviving you lose health anyways requiring commitment

[hallow pasture]

True, you need to be there, and it's a commitment to proceed.

A tiny bit of a endless revive cycle tho.

[unborn dagger]

Yeah I agree that redskull is ok. Especially since they changed it to 50 health instead of 25.

[hardy coral]

It's not 50 health, it's like 45.

[late quartz]

That's totally beside the point. It's not about how much it costs, it's about how it changes the dynamic of burns

[hardy coral]

I think it's fine to have the option to run off to get bounty. It become a 3v2 or 2v1 and you know where the guy that can res is.

[late quartz]

It's not too easy to redskull, it's that if I kill your teammate and i burn them the whole point is to get you to stay and fight me, it forces players to take risks and keep the pace in fights

Burning players is about creating pressure and forcing people to finish what they started

[hardy coral]

It can be annoying where people just give it up and keep waiting but that's more an issue with the consumables and certain compounds.

[late quartz]

Redskull revives could be literally free, no HP cost at all, and it would make essentially zero difference for what makes them problematic

[hardy coral]

Reduce it to just one so if you use it during combat you still have the risk of losing that player.

[late quartz]

It's not problematic in combat lol

idc if somebody wants to redskull 400 times in a fight

I wanna fight

[hardy coral]

And if you burn someone out all the way that team will of just left the match entirely without redskull.

If they're just camping a building that's a problem caused by something else.

[late quartz]

maybe? The incentives are different.

The dead guy loses his hunter which will have an effect on the decision

The guilt of leaving your buddy Jeff to lose his crap affects us all psychologically

The frequency of people just fully leaving a match after I killed their buddy was far lower before redskull.

[hardy coral]

Why?

I can understand it being less all or nothing but with the proliferation of fire it kind of has to stay this way. It also keeps teams together and lowers inter-team toxicity.

[late quartz]

Proliferation of fire ._.

Fire has always been super accessible

It spawns in the world all over the place lul

[hardy coral]

Dragon bolts, hunter body loots, lantern grunts.

It was always common but it's basically impossible to not find or have burns now.

[late quartz]

yeah it's sort of deminishing returns. If you needed to burn a body you could do it 9/10 times. Not being able to find fire to burn a body within a compound has always been more of an exception than anything

There has also been a "proliferation" of chokes with choke bolts and beetles

So I'm not sure the tables have actually meaningfully turned in a way that means players are just so overwhelmed with fire that they can never prevent burns

Choke beetles are literally zero risk disembodied anti-burn util

[hardy coral]

You do have to use up a consumable slot on them, not very worth it.

Though if you take a moment to learn the beetle spawns (and end up in those areas of the map) they can be used often.

[late quartz]

Yeah you have to give up a weapon slot for dragonbolt and choke bolt... you have to give up a consume slot or RNG loot it off a body to use a firebomb

Chokes are a standard tool, always have been, and you have a much greater chance of being able to plan a loadout around having them after a kill than you do RNG looting a firebomb

I'm not saying fire isn't everywhere, it totally is, but fire's increased availability is growing at essentially an identical rate with choke availability.

Lantern grunts are maybe the only outlier and like idk it feels pretty marginal.
Maybe the old 90% chance to find a lantern in a compound is now a 91% chance lol not a huge gamebreaker

[vital fractal]

That is 100% part of the point, costs are inherently a prt of dynamics

The pressure is still there to revive anyways, since you now have to bet on fighting everyone else for the bounty if you back off

And time

[late quartz]

The cost has no bearing on this part of the dynamic

It's a part of the mechanic, obviously, but it has no bearing on the part of the mechanic that's problematic

[late quartz]

There is pressure yes, but it's reduced. The pre-redskull revive amount of pressure was more conducive towards healthy gameplay than the post-redskull revive pressure imo

I value the benefits of the mechanic far less than I value the negative externalities

[rotund obsidian]

redskull revive should just take like 5x as long or something like that, it shouldn't be a mid-combat thing unless the enemies are WAY far

[vital fractal]

The amount of risk it takes to redskull revive is already high enough

If you are redskull reviving in the middle of combat, 85% you’re going to die

Unless you’re a 2 star in 2 star lobbies

[rotund obsidian]

i disagree with that tbh, it's not much worse than a normal revive

[vital fractal]

You are insta downed by almost every gun in the game for a period of time after redskulling a teammate, and vulnerable to explosives- even hives and similar will screw with you

If the team decides to push you during the redskull, you’re pretty much screwed unless you are on point with your aim and they aren’t

[hardy coral]

Well he's not arguing about the combat part of it.

[vital fractal]

It’s all apart of it

[hardy coral]

Just that players can in a way ignore burns and continue to camp or run away.

[vital fractal]

Exactly, let them choose to

If it was as easy as some people imply as a normal revive, why would they choose to run?

And if they choose to run, they now need a whole bounty to come back to a predetermined spot to revive a teammate

Which is tactically atrocious since now you are at least 2vlobby until it’s safe to redskull your teammate which means clutching the whole lobby 1/2 the time

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, "safe to redskull your teammate" is basically the same as a normal revive imo, the hp cost is irrelevant like 95% of the time. I think there's some merit to the idea that it ruins burn mechanics and allows people to abandon their burning teammates with less penalty, but I think that's honestly not a bad thing. Sometimes it's just not possible to save a burning teammate in time because he died in a really dumb spot, and he shouldn't just be out of the game (and out a hunter+gear) if our disadvantaged team also wins.

[analog willow]

Added: "Might need regular piles of dynamite resupply to clear traps and lair campers" to #game-ideas message

[rotund obsidian]

I think that there are some narrow situations where it can be annoying when someone runs because they can redskull, but it's more annoying to win a lobby fight and lose a teammate because he died a few too many times. I'd honestly be okay with making burning perma-kill if we separated it from the normal redskull from dying too many times and losing all your bars, but that sounds like a complicated change to make.

[unborn smelt]

I dunno - IMO just yeeting a lantern lying around in aboundance is pretty low effort to beginn with so i wouldn't like that being rewarded with a "perma-kill"

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, yeeting a lantern then also being abandoned for like 5 minutes, maybe.

[unborn smelt]

burning is way faster than 5 min - and as the burning team you are usually at a huge advantage already

[rotund obsidian]

I feel like you'd have to separate it from the burning of hp chunks though, because being perma-killed much easier at 50hp would suck, it'd have to be a flat timer

but again, really complicated change that i feel like would probably fuck up other systems too

[unborn smelt]

because you're likely up on person and just put a timer on an "easy" pick up on the downed one - an ultimatum even, if they have no bounty

[rotund obsidian]

I think it's pretty much fine as-is

[unborn smelt]

and if they have bounty you can monitor their every moove

[rotund obsidian]

It's a little sad that the dynamic of burning as a "come fight or lose your teammate" dynamic is kinda gimped by redskulling, but whatever

it still mostly gets the job done

[late quartz]

Thing is, I think that's a pretty controllable tactical decision. when you're on your last bar choosing to revive is something that carries a lot of weight.
You're never gonna accidentally revive your buddy on his last bar, and choosing not to revive in any situation is something where the right answer is sometimes to leave your friend on the floor

[unborn smelt]

yeah i think the way it is rn is fine. Redskull revives give a chance to pick up a mate that burned, albeit at the cost of the one reviving having to broadcast their position to everyone else in real time

but if no bounty is involved burning still works as an "ultimatum" to finish off a player with hiding teammates

[rotund obsidian]

I still think it should take longer to redskull revive but that's a whole separate issue :L

[late quartz]

Walking away from your burning teammate should be something you really really don't wanna do.
People leaving fights because their teammate died and is on fire is almost always going to detract from the quality of a match rather than bolster it

Sure, it's not free, and you need a bounty token. It's not an issue of it being "unbalanced" as much as it is a subjective change to the pace and flow of matches

I don't think it's OBJECTIVELY BAD that people can leave fights and revive burnt out teammates later, I think it's subjectively something that makes the game less interesting any time it happens

[unborn smelt]

I'd have to disagree here. It detracts from the currently winning teams experience, but allows more options to the "loosing" team

[late quartz]

It detracts from my experience regardless of if I'm winning or losing lul

[unborn smelt]

well for me not

[late quartz]

I'm not thankful for redskull revives when I'm the one dead on the floor

I still go "wow this is a lame mechanic"

[rotund obsidian]

if my teammates decide to go on a leisurely stroll and leave my body for 20 minutes its not a great experience

[unborn smelt]

if i'm in the advantaged team it may be annoying to have to hunt down the last one or watch a body burning

[late quartz]

Forcing players to take risks creates for more interesting gameplay, burning forces you to play at a pace that you aren't 100% comfortable with

Which leads to more dynamic fights

Interesting, unique, dynamic encoutners are what makes hunt worth playing over and over again

[unborn smelt]

but i'f im a clutching mate i am happy with having some more options to try and clutch the fight or make a bold moove in going for bounty + res

[late quartz]

When I started playing hunt years ago one of my very first observations was just how geniusly designed the health burning system was

When that was designed they struck GOLD man, that was insanely good game design

They've watered it down over time

[unborn smelt]

that's why it should be a balance between the inbterests of the one clutching and the one burning.

[late quartz]

Yeah, the balance is that you have choke bombs lul

take a risk, stay in the fight and choke for several minutes of time to reset and gather a good situation

or accept that your teammate is fucked and go play the rest of the match however you choose

[unborn smelt]

we had hunt without burning and it sucked because people waited out half matches to revive, we had burning being insanely strong to the point they had to nerf it multiple times because it was a way too low effort high reward moove

i think overall burning is at a nice place right now

[late quartz]

Aside from redskull revives yeah I totally agree

[unborn smelt]

it's definetly a much needed mechanic - but not as oppressive as it used to be in the beginning after the bug just became a feature

[late quartz]

This choice just feels completely antithetical to what makes the mechanic genius

[unborn smelt]

i don't think that's the balance

because i hate "must picks" in loadouts

if the chokes had a worldspawn alternative - the way lanterns are worldspawns i'd agree

[late quartz]

You don't HAVE to take it, you just give up the most simple counterplay for burning

Most fire doesn't last long enough to prevent you from walking up and tapping res to put out a burning teammate

It's just a risk to do that

this is how loadout options work: you take items to prevent yourself from uncomfortable risky situations should they arise

[rotund obsidian]

on the flip side: if i forget to respec my bars and die 3 times and redskull just to losing bars, it would be absolutely horrendous if my teammates couldn't redskull revive me

[late quartz]

You can't account for all inevitabilites, you choose which situations you least want to be put in

If somebody takes the strongest burning item, firebombs, they gave up a loadout slot for that.

We have more choke alternatives than ever. Could we use more? Sure absolutely, but choke bombs themselves are not a "must pick"

[unborn smelt]

I'd agree if they'd remove lanterns as a way of burning people

[late quartz]

I'd argue choke beetles are generally better

[unborn smelt]

want to burn someone - bring a firebomb

[late quartz]

Yeah I could see that. It's a MUCH bigger change to a core mechanic than removing redskull revive... but I can see the logic

Not my favorite idea but not a crazy one by any means

[unborn smelt]

but i think having lantern basically everywhere in abundance but then making picking chokes without worldspawn alternatives the counterplay is not a good idea

I mean we already have beetle cocoons

just plaster more of em on the world and fill em with choke beetles too

[late quartz]

Well, I think fundamentally the reason there is that burning is a really fundamental part of what makes hunt work

[unborn smelt]

easy worldspawn choke items

[late quartz]

And you don't NEED chokes to put out a player

They're really good at it and obviously it sucks to not have them much of the time but tapping res does work

[rotund obsidian]

you do need chokes if it's a normal/liquid firebomb, unless you wanna burn off like half your hp reviving someone

[unborn smelt]

you technically don't but we know from the way burning initially worked, that running up to a mate and tapping them out is a death sentence

[late quartz]

Yeah as I say firebombs are an exception

[late quartz]

Sometimes. Depends

[unborn smelt]

especially because there's issues like some worldfires never extinguioshing and fiorbombs burning for 2 min now

[unborn smelt]

Ofc it depends - but overall it barely works. that's the point i'm trying to make

like most of the time that just gets you killed so people in the past let their teammates burn out anyway

[rotund obsidian]

I've been taking a single firebomb every game now since rain was added, but I think hellfires were lowkey better for burning bodies in fortified positions because I could just dauntless a choke without burning my own hp off from groundfire

[unborn smelt]

part of why we got chokes and why chokes are tools and not consumables anymore

[analog willow]

How about a 'Bucket' world item that can be filled with water? Short range effect, which would still make Choke Bombs the better option since they can be thrown from a distance

[rotund obsidian]

when were waterballoons invented ong

[unborn smelt]

the issue back then was how easy it is to guard a burning person when their mate basically needs to get into melee range

short range effect is basically run to en and tap "Interact" already

[late quartz]

Chokes are very necessary for normal firebombs. For lanterns, it's somewhat situational.

Really depends on how your teammate dies, I'd say probably 30~35% of the time I don't need a choke. The problem here is there's a survivorship bias problem where if a player can easily be put out people usually wont even bother setting them on fire. This naturally creates a cognitive bias towards seeing the most extreme cases

[analog willow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcZqyuApr_g

[late quartz]

Plus we're also in a world now where necro exists and we can get our teammates from range even while they're on fire

[unborn smelt]

Well i refuse to use chokes and it's propably the dumbest decision i do in hunt most of the time, because it costs, not even myself, but my mates quite a few games

and i think that's the core issue

[rotund obsidian]

choke beetles are a nice alternative but it doesnt change that chokes are basically mandatory as a firebomb counter

[late quartz]

All of this is to say, I don't think redskull revive ruins the game, I don't think it has a major effect in most games either.

I think it's more common that redskull hurts the quality of a match than burning being too strong hurts the quality of a match.

[unborn smelt]

with how bonkers strong fire is - and the dependance on your mate, not you yourself, bringing chokes you c reate a lot of issues among people playing together

you sure can play without chokes but you, or more realistically, your teqmmates just have to be preparted to loose way more HP and loose many games to either burning out or the chokeless mate doing a suicide mission to tap you out

[late quartz]

If fire is too strong, which I'm open to, I think there are better solution that encourage players to continue to participate in the fight rather than duck out.

[unborn smelt]

And usually i'd say if you choose to not add this to your loadout your own (bad) choice

but in this case it's not you suffering the consequence, but your burning mate

[late quartz]

One could argue you suffer from being down a teammate and thus at a disadvantage, but I'd agree that the person who suffers the most is the person who no longer gets to play the game

[hot vigil]

Redskull have the exact same issue a solo revive, it is too easy to sneak in mid-combat for skill that should just be there to scrape you off the floor after a fight is won.

[unborn smelt]

personally i don't think it should be a thing for purely after a fight is won. I prefer if it keeps some pressure on the already advantaged team - so they don't just take it easy and expect the edvantage to win the rest of the fight too

i like that it's "easy" to loose the advantage if you are too passive

loose is maybe a bit strong - the one that was downed and redskulled is at max at 50 HP and you potentially drain some meds of the reviving player that in of itself is a huge advantage already so it's not like the advantage is entirely gone - it just gets less of an advantage if you don't act on it and keep up the pressure

[fair brook]

If you know there is a problem with fire the game has several ways to combat this

Like not only do you have the chokes, but you have choke bolts on the hand crossbow and the new beetle. Hell I like using them if I know someone might try to throw a big boy through a gap

[analog willow]

@sonic solar I wrote an event just like that too!

Great idea!

[sonic solar]

great minds who want usable cannons think alike lol it would be so cool even in a limited capacity!!!

[analog willow]

Love it! And the ship could be a working compound for a limited time

Maybe a mirage of the ship appears to lucky hunters in the weeks leading up the event?

[hot vigil]

Did you guys read any of the lore of the event we just had???

[sonic solar]

yea or have a community vote to see if some of the crew mutinies to keep some cool pirate legendaries in the game!! and i would like to think that its shipwreck on a sand bar just far enough from the bayou to avoid the "corruption" that you get for staying in the bayou for to long. they could do three man raiding parties for supplies in a dingy

tbh i just want a legendary huter that looks like captain hook lol

[analog willow]

A bit. Not all of it. I know there was just recently a shipwreck in the lore

[hot vigil]

There is literally a ghostship.

And you can hear it during thunderstorms

The whole triology is gonna be about that ship

[analog willow]

There can be more than one ghost ship 😋 That one never materialized in-game

[hot vigil]

The story is a triology

we did part one

[analog willow]

Awesome!

[sonic solar]

and part three could be a big mutiny event

[hot vigil]

I'd rather not

Also wouldn't make sense to the backstory alread told

[sonic solar]

can you elaborate so i can try to work it in somehow or is it flat out not possible and why?

[analog willow]

With 20 years of Hunt storyline available, anything is possible😋

[hot vigil]

Basically the gist of it that around 2 years ago a crew travelled on the boat of Delphine with a cargo.
Cargo has some voodoo shit.
One night they sail into another realm where time didn't flow.
They spent a very long time there, lot of super natural shit goes down.
While they are stuck, they are not dying, neither of hunger or of thirst.
Captain kills himself by throwing himself overboard.
Navigator is left to deal with the shit.
People on the ship blames the navigator for all of this as they believe he had steered them into all of this.
Rotjaw starts to show up and do the Rotjaw things.
Man arrives somewhile after (Mr. Chary maybe?) tells the crew that if they can stuff that voodoo shit from the cargo into Rotjaw, they can leave.
Everyone except the Navigator thinks that sounds like a good idea.
Over the next couple of days they do their best effort to capture Rotjaw and stuff the voodoo idol into the mouth of her.
They succeed, but also all of them that were included in the ritual dies, during that the Navigator locks himself in boiler, locking it from the inside.
Rotjaw fucks off.
The Navigator seemed to be chosen by the ship, the flames burns him up slowly, but he does not die.
As he fades away, he can feel how each of his lost limbs fuse with the body of the ship.
In his last moments, the Navigator laments on how he have become a vessel for the ship and vice versa, that his soul will become hundreds of altars to her and those alters will turn souls into a crew for her.

[analog willow]

That's a very different story though

[hot vigil]

That is the story we have so far

Also, pirates don't fit Hunt, game takes place in 1895, golden age of piracy ended in 1730.

[analog willow]

They are undead. They can be from any time period😋

[hot vigil]

Dunno man, that is just not Hunt. Would be like saying "we should have Dragons, there is magic, so anything can happen"

[analog willow]

To each their own

[broken musk]

It is creative dont get me wrong, but i dont think it would fit in Hunt

[hot vigil]

This

[broken musk]

Closest we come to "pirates" that do fit in hunt, is for example the Deckhand

[hot vigil]

I mean, ofc there was still pirates in the world at that point (even still today), but most piracy in the 1800's were in Asia.
And even the one you would have Atlantic sea and Caribbean coast would not be the swashbuckling pirates of old.

"Oyster Pirates" were a thing tho! But like... they just poached Oysters.

[white oasis]

#game-ideas message
@frigid folio
i think it the time to res should increase hugely everytime they get downed again, coupled with increased health cost
if the first revive needs 5 sec and 50 hp the next one 10s and 100hp, the next 15s, 150hp and so on

[frigid folio]

That's definitely another way it could be done! I definitely think redskull revive needs a slight rework though. Like it's addition to the game was good imo, it's just a bit "free infinite revives" atm

[fervent wadi]

For the love of freaking everything nerf the god awful hell hounds. They have been a plague in this game since I've been playing. They're ridiculous. They're the main ai enemy I think needs to be nerfed

[empty oasis]

They are in a nerfed state. They used to be much stronger

[fervent wadi]

I can't even imagine how bad they were then. Good god, no

[hot wind]

hi

I'm playing the game today. My account has been banned. How can I apply to lift the ban?

[flat sandal]

Hell hounds are fine. Sometimes they can get you in the wrong moment and that's how it should be imo. Usually they are incredibly easy to deal with you simply have to learn how.

[hollow raft]

We had weekend night-only contracts for several weeks before the event

Why not just move rain to a weekend only contract like night?

This guy isn't alone on it, and there are people who vehemently refuse to play rain

like how people who bring scoped rifles couldn't play fog maps, and would extract to get into a new match

instead of forcing people to feel the need to requeue because the RNG map selection includes some settings that heavily disadvantage certain kits, let them choose to play the settings like rain or night with appropriate kits or the want to do so, instead of having normal queued matches where teams go missing because they extracted instead of playing the match

it's inefficient for both the people who want more people to fight in their matches, while also forcing the ones who extract anyway to get in, extract, reroll another match setting

[sour ferry]

count me in. in the last few days of the event i just went into the next exit as soon as the match started. im actually surprised, in a negative way, that the rain stayed in the normal rotation and was not put into wildcard 😄 this is a gamekiller for me somehow. hearing that they didn't even reduce the rate makes me sad ^^

[hollow raft]

Also perhaps just a personal survey isn't accurate, but I queued up with a friend who does not like the rain, but will still play it. He got fed up with having rain twice, or every other match. We tried leaving and requeuing matches, 5 times it was rain in a row until it set fog for the 6th. That isn't a reduced rate, it feels as if they did not reduce the rate since the event ended

@quartz swan
the gun would have to be a rival length shotgun
having a double barrel romero (long barrel shotgun) would be too strong

[late quartz]

The utility of one shotgun barrel is much greater than one medium ammo barrel.
The drilling works because you generally need two shots to kill. Having the option to switch to a single rifle barrel doesn't really make a lot of sense in normal combat.

You'd almost certainly be better off just swapping to a secondary the majority of the time.

[unborn smelt]

Unless - you know the barrel you switch to has rifle level range over pistol level range

[late quartz]

I mean, under what circumstances would having a single shot of medium ammo rifle dropoff be really worth a weapon pick

Followup shots from a teammate?

Seems exceedingly niche

[unborn smelt]

i'd love it as a budget option

[hardy coral]

You'd use it as the first shot, like a worse springfield.

Can work to burn heals and get headshots.

[unborn smelt]

basically a springfield strapped to a shotgun

[hardy coral]

Not really to get kills though. Help close the gap with the shotgun.

[late quartz]

"You need to get headshots" is probably not a good framework for a weapon tbqh

[unborn smelt]

or generally to try and do range combat with it

like that headshot on that guy standing still

[hardy coral]

Also depends on special ammo.

Springfield is only good thanks to dum dum, for that it's okay.

[late quartz]

Sure but if you make a single shot medium ammo rifle that also has two shotgun barrels you're kinda steppign on the springfields toes

It goes back to being the case where the marksman variant is its only saving grace

[crystal plume]

I used springfield way before it got dumdum and still use it without dumdum 😄

[late quartz]

Unless it deals less than 125 damage I suppose, but then again it's like... kind of a terrible gun

[crystal plume]

I value pen more than poison or bleed

[hardy coral]

Springfield should get all available special ammo.

It could really use HV.

[unborn smelt]

you also do with a double shot springfield and a shotgun barrel

you also do with the basic sparks

[hardy coral]

Medium pen is pretty crap tbh.

Especially with a single shot gun, not so good damage after pen.

[late quartz]

Yeah I mean if we don't care whatsoever about keeping the springfield relevant

Sure whatever I guess, just throw a rival on the springfield lol

[unborn smelt]

I just think the argument is not great

it's not like the springie is relevant to beginn with

[late quartz]

Sure, fuck it then

[hardy coral]

It could stay relevent if it did have all special ammo available.

[late quartz]

Fuck the springfield, throw it to the powercreep shadow realm

[hardy coral]

So it's much more versatile.

[hardy coral]

It was bad on release, it was never powercrept.

[unborn smelt]

not saying it needs to be a springie shot one to one

[late quartz]

It would be very hard to work around it if you gave this Drilling v2 dumdum

[unborn smelt]

you could go ahead and do the same as for the other drilling and have it deal less than 125

and just have it be a budget version - or more CQB oriented version of the drilling

[late quartz]

Personally, I think it would be very very hard to justify taking a single medium ammo shot. The risk of using that one shot then being forced to swap or reload feels like it would almost always be greater than swapping to a sidearm

[unborn smelt]

I mean yeah it wouldn't be top tier

but it doesn't need to be either

[late quartz]

Sure, no, that's not the standard really

I think it's a bad idea LOL

it would function as a weapon

But it's not a coherent design

[unborn smelt]

I think it'd be a nice coherent design

[late quartz]

It would not be unusable but frankly the biggest risk with adding new guns in Hunt is keeping everything distinct and meaningfully valuable in relation to the rest of the arsenal.

This is sort of a weird incoherent design that takes up space and steps on toes for very little benefit imo

There is sort of an opportunity cost to adding stuff to the game

[unborn smelt]

like yes at range it'd be very risky - but it'd be more powerful up close than the drilling we already have

basically a sidegrade to the drilling we have

[late quartz]

I guess it goes back to where it fits in the game, right?
What does budget mean really. The rival is $150, how much more expensive would it have to be for it to be a reasonable price jump off that?

Assuming of course it's even medium barrel. It could be a short barrel I suppose but at that point we're going even deeper into the "this gun is kind of bad" territory

[unborn smelt]

that would very much depend on how the exact balance looks like

[late quartz]

Sure, and I don't think asking you exactly what stats it would have is reasonable obviously

But the specifics are why this seems like a pretty weak idea lol

[unborn smelt]

to me it doesn't seem like a weak idea at all

just as a sidegrade to the existing drilling

[hardy coral]

I don't feel it'd work for the game, it'd step on the handcannons a lot too.

[late quartz]

I don't think the core idea of a single rifle barrel on a double barrel shotgun is at its core a strong idea with how the damage model in this game works

In order to make it seem like it has a place, the specifics do really matter

Hybrid weapons have possibly the greatest risk of powercreep and/or stepping on toes

[hardy coral]

The drilling works because of the price bracket and general awkwardness of it. Anyone advocating the price is lowered, or even any sort of big buff, doesn't understand the gun.

[unborn smelt]

a lot of times all i'd really want with my shotgun is a single rifle barrel to fish for headshots

originally i wished slugs could have taken that role

but we all know how that turned out

[unborn smelt]

I wouldn't say that.

[late quartz]

Idk I feel like sniping with irons often keeps you in the range where the nicer pistols (not the uppercut/uppermat, that's cheating in this example) will still one shot to the head

Again, I think "it only makes sense if you headshot" is just a wacky way to design a weapon in Hunt

[unborn smelt]

granted it needs more time to accustom to the meta

[unborn smelt]

i mean ironsights do just fine over 100m

so i'm a fan of having the option to compete way past that range

albeit with the heavy downsides that medium comes with, which is really bad range on anything but headshots

[late quartz]

I guess where I'm at is that this weapon would be very strong at close range, very bad at medium range, and minimally usable at longer ranges

It's like a weird effective range curve

Again like... all guns shoot bullets and kill people, that's not the standard we use for assessing value

Typically we specialize weapons to keep them distinct, this feels like it's doing the opposite, instead of specializing in one thing or even two things, just an okay shotgun and a bad rifle

It's not specialized in either it's just a wacky hybrid. At best it fills a VERY specific niche poorly, at worst it powercreeps other guns

[unborn smelt]

well i'd argue that we then end up with "distinct weapons" that all meld into not actually feeling that distinct anymore

like we have with most of the long ammo rifles

[late quartz]

Sure, I wouldn't defend long ammo weapons as the pinacle of good balance

[hardy coral]

The long ammo bolties are quite similar. The Sparks and Martini are quite distinct.

[unborn smelt]

where mosin, Lebel and berthier really just feel like the same thing, and basically fit the same niche

[late quartz]

They're all specced into the same niche which is like... weird

[hardy coral]

Krag is pretty well balanced tbh. Berthier is underpowered.

[late quartz]

The Sparks is the most unique long ammo rifle and it's like... honestly great design aside from some weird edge cases

Like flash bombs doing 1 damage etc.

The lebel and mosin probably shouldn't both exist in the same game, I'm not upset about it but it's not good design

They're just there to carry different variants

[unborn smelt]

i'd argue that it's not "bad design"

[hot vigil]

Krag is "fair long ammo".

[hardy coral]

Lebel and Mosin are fine. We don't need anymore similar guns though.

[unborn smelt]

having a bit of variance is absolutely smth thats good to have if you don't overdo it

[late quartz]

I mean sure

It's not really "a bit of variance"

It's the faint smell of variance that was in the room an hour ago

[broken musk]

I highly prefer lebel over mosin, berthier etc

[unborn smelt]

as it is so often i think it's good to stick to the middle ground

[hallow pasture]

Idk, the sight of Mosin is better imo

[broken musk]

Lebel just feels so good to use, and is satisfying

[late quartz]

If you wentback in time and removed either the lebel or mosin and just put all the variants on one gun

The game would not be substantively different

[unborn smelt]

it's good to have a choice even between to very similar guns for the same niche - but you don't need 4 choices for every niche

[late quartz]

You couldn't REMOVE THEM cause people would notice

[hallow pasture]

I do like lebel more than the Mosin. Besides the easier to look with sight of mosin

[broken musk]

Also lebel has some awesome skins

[unborn smelt]

a bit of variance is great, because maybe someone can't stand the ironsights of the gun that occupies that particular niche, so a second option could be chosen

[hot vigil]

Berthier needs to be a 300$ gun.

[broken musk]

In the end, having many choices also means that people have more to choose from, and what fits them best - but i do get your point

[late quartz]

Variance can be good, sure, but it is not inherently good.

Guns should be meaningfully different, there should be some mechanical leverage pushing people towards one gun over another

[unborn smelt]

yes - but there's also a lot of work involved with making many guns for so many choices

[broken musk]

That is true

[unborn smelt]

so you also need to split those choices kinda evenly

[hot vigil]

That is a double edge sword tho, because then we can end up (in worst case) with the modern "attachment system" where people just min/max weapons into blandness.

[hardy coral]

imo the winfield is only good due to levering, but because levering is worse than fanning it sucks.

[unborn smelt]

i don#t mind more long ammo bolties - if we have gotten around to adding more choices to other niches first

[hardy coral]

In any other use case for the winfield, or its variants, the Centennial is imo superior.

[broken musk]

Fair enough

[late quartz]

I think the winfield has its place as a close~mid range dueling weapon. The Officer Carbine is sort of an issue in that niche but it does take a hit because of its small magazine and long reload

[broken musk]

++

[late quartz]

I'd never ever replace the compact winfield with the centennial

Totally different guns imo

[hallow pasture]

Cent is just a good overal gun.

[late quartz]

ROF is everything to the winfield and the cent doesn't shine there

[hot vigil]

I've ended up using more Centennial than WinnieC

[hallow pasture]

Decent on mid to long too

[unborn smelt]

only now that they buffed the cent a tonn

[hallow pasture]

Levering in cqb

[hardy coral]

The firerates are quite close with iron repeater. Even closer for the medium slot variants.

[unborn smelt]

there's a reason they gave it far lower RoF in the beginning

just for some reason people thought a fast bullet would be worth the insane cost attached to the gun

which time showed it wasn't

[hot vigil]

Issue was just that a lever action gun had slower fire-rate than a bolt-action gun (vetterli) and I guess we couldn't nerf the speed of the vetterli too much.
Still think Cenny could use a slight buff to its levering.

[late quartz]

It's probably good that they start with weaker guns and buff them later

[unborn smelt]

I'd even argue it was a good gun after it's introduction

[hardy coral]

It was fine but it had no real niche.

Completely out-shot by the vet and winfield and much worse at range when compared to the long ammo bolties.

[unborn smelt]

oh it did, function wise

the price just didn't match

[late quartz]

They kept it weak because it could have potentially filled multiple niches, they want to keep hybrid guns from overwriting existing guns in those niches

[unborn smelt]

function wise it was a fine low end repeating sniper

[hot vigil]

Did until they added the Krag and then gave the Krag a Sniperscope too, like why?

[unborn smelt]

what the springifield is to the sparks

the cent was to the mosin sniper

it just was way too pricey for that niche

[unborn smelt]

to be fair those two have a lot of overlap

[hot vigil]

Exactly the issue I have with it lol
Cenny was FINALLY becoming its own thing and then they release the Krag + Krag Sniper :v

[unborn smelt]

both fast bullet for easy leading on range, but lower damage. Both easy to handle, like no ammo lost on top off

[hot vigil]

That said, think all bolt-action long ammo guns could do with a +0.1/+0.2 cycle nerf.

[hardy coral]

Same for the uppercut.

That needs to cycle even 20% slower. 1.4 up to even 1.7.

[unborn smelt]

I'd imagine because of overlaps like this they needed to boost the Cent RoF (because otherwise the Krags long ammo pen and dmg retention would have left it in the dust)

[late quartz]

Good example of why adding new weapons that fit multiple niches is risky~

[unborn smelt]

but now the cent with all the upsides just steps on the basic winnies feet

[late quartz]

Same for the slate

[hardy coral]

Centennial vs Krag is fairer now thanks to ammo pickup.

[unborn smelt]

yep that did a lot to differentiate the two more

[hot vigil]

For sure, I've said there have been a weapon bloat in Hunt for the past 2 years.
That said, LeMat Uppercut and Drilling was two good addition of the most parts.

[hallow pasture]

For the Levering guns, I think we should have something like a addition to it. In terms of its rof, a sort of skillset that gains experience the more you keep using a Levering gun. The more you gain the faster it will lever.
Ofcourse, it will be slow as hell at first.
The experience needs to be kept up. It will faid over time.

[late quartz]

Granular RPG-style stat changes are almost always a bad idea

[hallow pasture]

I mean, one can get skilled with Levering guns and nearly shoot it like a machinegun irl.. Now of. This in hunt would be overkill, but a bit faster pace to gain over experience?

[late quartz]

Predictable margins and pacing are a huge element of skill

When things just random take a different amount of time it completely throws out gamesense

Physician is fine because it's binary, if you had a 15 point scale from normal medkit time to physician time it would be a mess

[unborn smelt]

yeah they got more bold with new weapon additions

[hardy coral]

Levering is basically fine as is.

[unborn smelt]

which at least looking at the two you menion is a good thing IMO

[hardy coral]

It's precise enough that it doesn't feel BS like fanning and dualies can in cases but it's not too precise that it is even required to utilise those guns.

The issue with it that it's close to a joke on anything but the full winnie tho.

[late quartz]

the scottfield and new army probably shouldn't be in the game

[hallow pasture]

True, but also gives a unpredictable fight for opposing parties. If they think they can push and get shredded by a skilled leverer.

[hardy coral]

And that it's the only thing that makes the terminus viable.

[hardy coral]

The regular NA is fine, the swift was a mistake.

[late quartz]

Yeah... exactly... that's bad lol

That's anti-skill

[unborn smelt]

I like the scottfield... altho it could use a bit of help against the other guns

[hardy coral]

Scottfield could exist if Pax was given HV instead of FMJ and the spitfire was nerfed.

[hallow pasture]

Imo, it's skill. You draw out people into a trap

[hot vigil]

Really? Scottfield spitfire is stupid

[hallow pasture]

Spread wise it's uncontrollable the faster you shoot.

[hardy coral]

Regular Scottfield is in the same position as base nagant.

[unborn smelt]

i also don't mind the new army - i just find it funny how people wen't nuts with the Dolch

[late quartz]

Well, that's sort of the point right? The new army alone is so so so marginally different to the officer it doesn't really matter. The swift is the only reason it exists, because it can be loaded more quickly due to its cylinder swinging out

[unborn smelt]

yet the new army has very similar stats to it at a fraction of the price

[hot vigil]

Still think New Army is a gun a lot of people sleep on, it is really strong imo.

[late quartz]

I love the scottfield. I haven't touched the pax since it came out lul

that's the issue I have with it

[unborn smelt]

i mean yeah - it's two thirds of a Dolch for a fraction of the price

[hardy coral]

It has the damage to two shot to lower chest, it has different special ammo, but it has a much more finnicky reload. Swift ignores the major downside, it's a straight upgrade.

[hallow pasture]

Pax is my favorite mid tho.

[unborn smelt]

it really only has a slightly smaller mag and a slow bullet

[hardy coral]

The velocity difference also matters, it's way worse to follow up with at distance.

[late quartz]

Different special ammo is the lowest form of balancing lol

[hallow pasture]

It's pretty decent

[late quartz]

Different special ammo is a straight up BAD way to balance guns. If the only thing you have is different speical ammo it means the base gun stats are not meaningfully different enough

It works, but it's not like inherent to the gun's identity/stats

[hot vigil]

Scottfield killed the Pax in a lot of ways.
Scottfield and New Army killed single slot handguns.

[hardy coral]

Officer and NA are distinct enough already. It's just bad balance that the swift exists.

[hot vigil]

I miss the day where single slot handgun without fanning was the norm.

Sure uppercut was an issue then, but then again, it still is

[hallow pasture]

Uppercut can just be deleted for all I care.

[hot vigil]

yes

[unborn smelt]

that was pretty much never the norm - apart from the Uppercut meta

[hardy coral]

If I'm running a double action pistol purely for close range I'll use the NA for the easier two tap and oppurtunity to use more relevant special ammo for that role. The velocity matters less there. If I'm using a double action pistol for follow up shots or keeping fire down after expending my primary (most likely a sparks) I'll use the officer for the velocity and even the HV.

[unborn smelt]

fanning has always been super popular

which IMO is because it has no downside

[late quartz]

ngl I think if you're hitting lower torso shots you're lost

MAYBE THAT'S NARROW MINDED

[unborn smelt]

it's a pure upside to any single action

[late quartz]

But if lower torso damage matters a lot idk we just play totally different games

I don't think I've ever in my life lost a fight because I had +1 STK from a lower torso shot

[hallow pasture]

Overal, I like the silenced poison with fanning up close

[hardy coral]

The extra damage matters in quite a few cases. It also lets you hit arm and upper chest for a kill.

[hallow pasture]

Also, I found a way to blast a conversion chain with fanning while aiming down sight

[hot vigil]

Would say in early day hunt, unless you were high skilled, people tended not to have enough perks for fanning and enough money for uppercuts, Officers and Dolch (while still cheaper).
Saw and ran more single action guns back then.

[hallow pasture]

Incredible op.. Happened 3 times unintentional

[unborn smelt]

they sure did - but if you could afford it, fanning and Uppercut / Dolch were still what you'd go for

[hot vigil]

For sure

[hallow pasture]

I'll try to record it one time soon and send it in.

[unborn smelt]

altho i can see where you're coming from

[late quartz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have limb pen right? Where like, if a bullet hits your arm but would have hit your torso otherwise, it deals torso damage?

[unborn smelt]

and i kinda agree

[late quartz]

I genuinely don't remember

[hot vigil]

If it is easily replicated, for sure report it.

[hardy coral]

It pens through but if you just hit the arm it'll only do arm damage. It matters often.

[unborn smelt]

but with the amount of semi auto handguns and how popular actual rifles with actual range are i see no way for that to come back

[late quartz]

Sure. I guess I just don't hit arms very much

[hardy coral]

Especially with the gun recoiling and having to reset, if shooting from the side you may just strike them through the arms, if shooting from the front you may hit the shoulder or elbow.

[unborn smelt]

well technically i see one way but not a good one

cough infinite HS on all weapons cough

[hardy coral]

I've tagged people twice a lot with the officer pistol just because I tried to make full use of the firerate.

[hot vigil]

1877 mode when?

[unborn smelt]

well but that's not the norm for balance overall

the vast majority of players are 3-4 stars

[late quartz]

Sure I'm not saying it doesn't matter

I just don't experience it very much

It's a blindspot

[unborn smelt]

and not even in high tier, did the low dmg "ez HS" ammo types or guns turn out dominant

[hot vigil]

Just realized how many "unfun" guns there would be removed with a 1877 mode.

[unborn smelt]

the "just don't hit limbs" argument frequently came up with the Cent, or spitzer

[late quartz]

I'm not saying "just hit your shots" that's obviously a terrible argument

[unborn smelt]

yet we can see, now that time passed it didn't hold up, even in the higher tiers. but what obviously is true

[hardy coral]

Being allowed to combine up with limb shots, especially arms, makes the gun more consistent at all ranges. It's an upside.

[unborn smelt]

is that limb shots are less of an issue towards top elo

[hardy coral]

As your aim improves so will the quality of your opponents, and they'll move better.

[hardy coral]

Arguably more so.

Since people know how to use and abuse the movement.

[late quartz]

Yeah idk about that one lol

I would not say good movement is a staple of 5~6 star gameplay

There are certainly good movement players but they're still a very rare exception rather than a new standard

[hardy coral]

Well that's cus 5-6 star is an odd mix of people who simply maintain an okay KD due to boring play and those who are actually good.

[late quartz]

Regardless, I dont' disagree that arm shots matter

Lower torso eeeeeh I think if you're hitting lower torso it's a MAJOR crosshair placement issue

It probably just should not happen unless you're hipfiring

[unborn smelt]

I mean i even kinda agree

[late quartz]

Arms definitely matter

[hardy coral]

Matters with people jumping or if you're shooting up or down elevation.

[hot vigil]

Or like me, just lucky :v

[late quartz]

It probably shouldn't matter with people jumping

[hardy coral]

Also matters for wall penetration.

[late quartz]

The jump height is so low you'd have to be aiming at middle chest for it to matter

[unborn smelt]

like a lot of times i see especially 5* and 6* compensate not that great movement by really great aim

[late quartz]

If you're aiming for peoples' middle chest that's a crosshair placement issue

[unborn smelt]

like it doesn't matter if you are in a bad spot with little cover if you can just click the head

[late quartz]

"good movement" in hunt is largely just really egregious camera/hitbox abuse

Swinging your camera around puts a MUCH greater burden on your aim

[unborn smelt]

I wouldn't say that either

good movement includes knowing good paths to take, and dodging and weaving between cover well, and a good sense of how to maximise speed while keeping sounds to a tolerable level

[late quartz]

I would say that's positioning and not movement

When we say "good movement" in this context we're talking about dodging bullets

In relation to how often it will make people shoot you in the arms lul

[unborn smelt]

and good movement for melee (which includes a lot of high risk baits) is diffrent than good movement of a rifle player (which i'm not that good at as i main melee)

[hot vigil]

Well it's hunt, not tekken, not gonna see people play footsies

[unborn smelt]

I mean yeah if you seperate the two i can see that

[late quartz]

yeah we're just talking about totally different things

I agree with you 100%

But none of that is gonna make me shoot you in the arms lul

[unborn smelt]

i just count positioning and moovement as one because they are closely related IMO

[late quartz]

Controlling lines of sight, cover, sound etc. are all important and nuanced skills

but if a guy is right in front of me whether or not he can dodge my officer bullets is completely unrelated

If he can, it's because he's waving his camera around like a madman

[hot vigil]

Top league movement.

[late quartz]

Which is certainly a skill, no knocking it, but just good strafing, jumping and crouching is not enough to separate you from a "normal player" here

[unborn smelt]

i wouldn't call the "chicken dance" good movement either

afterall it's just "be as random as can be" because inertia is really low for the speed of gunplay in this game

[late quartz]

Thing about hunt is that you can start sprinting midair, and air strafe control is very high.

Strafing means you need to have an active forward input.

This means that in order to maximize the amount you displace your hitbox you need to use your camera

Plus obviously your entire fucking upper torso flails around with your camera as well

The more you want to displace your hitbox, the more camera inputs you need, the more it burdens your aim

It's not about being random, it's about being unpredictable

Random inputs are MORE predictable because you end up moving less

Plus obviously they put major limits on your ability to crouch and jump, so spamming is heavily punished.
On the flip side, evenly paced crouches/jumps are predictable and easily punished

[hallow pasture]

Couldn't replicate it in a few tries at the shooting range, started to look for a match it happened in.
trimmed it out of the recording.

[hot vigil]

Huh, well gonna take a look at it too, tho it didn't seem to help with your aiming :b

[hallow pasture]

Ye, this instance didn't help so much, but it takes away the spread from hipfiring, so therefor it can be op.

It's the first match I found, why bother looking for another match, you get the idea there.

[dusky tapir]

@tiny cobalt I see we had the same idea

🤝

[empty oasis]

#game-ideas message

@ebon hinge
That's 2D replay and is coming "sometime"

[calm shuttle]

why is this new fucking weather still the game is really shit and no one likes it why didn't you remove this fucking update also what is a crocodile boss what a fucking stupid boss

[broken musk]

Because the rain is nice, and rotjaw is fun, but i guess you don't subject to change kindly

[calm shuttle]

Are you fun or serious? When that downpour starts, nothing can be seen or heard.

that first calm quiet rain is really good but when it starts to get loud I get nauseous

[hot vigil]

I like it, checkmate

[little jackal]

I figured the auto-prestige idea would get dislikes. I myself am conflicted on if they implemented something like that.

But we all know tons of the guns in the game are basically not even used and people can easily sit with thousands upon thousands of Hunt Dollars, so the economy is not a means of balance or progression.

[hot vigil]

As someone who is prestiging, I will say, prestiging should never be mandatory and an optional "extra challenge".

[worthy knoll]

@opaque glen you missspelled Saber in your Suggestion;)

[hot vigil]

Think is more healthy to create gameplay/choice incentives not to either stack up cash like crazy or kit-out the best build every match.
A solution I'm fond of, that I've suggested is to provide people a choice of contracts they take, each with different maximum budget they can spend on the contract.

[winter plover]

As somebody who recently hit P100 I can tell you that you don't bother playing a broader variety of loadouts. At some point you just play the same couple of loadouts every prestige. Some unlocks are just too tedious to get anyways.

So forced prestige won't fix that issue imo

[crystal plume]

I had the complete opposite experience with my 100 prestiges and did it specifically for variety

Unlocks aren't even that grindy

[vital fractal]

That’s a lie, great examples are slug on lemat, Spitzer on mosin, UpperMat if you like that, throwing axes, Hive Jar, flares and a few others that are just annoying to get and may not be given a chance

[hot vigil]

Big Vitality shots are a pain too

[crystal plume]

Obviously if you're going for everything at once it'll be more grindy, but I had no issues with focusing on the specific things I wanted to play each prestige

Including vitality shots and throwing axes

[winter plover]

Throwing axes are a pain because the normal axe is two slots.
Shots are pain because usage based unlocks are just garbage. Starting with 4 health shots and instantly using them every round is just a dumb mechanic.

Regarding the rest it's obviously what the individual wants. But at some point beyond p50 or sth I just didn't bother with playing specific stuff and just used what's easiest to unlock and most efficient to prestige.

[merry axle]

Bro?? All u have to do is use small vit shots until u get it

[little jackal]

I suppose my idea for auto-prestige would also need other changes to the game too. As mentioned in my original post, they'd need to change the quest system to only use things you've unlocked, for instance. And the variant unlocks would need a revamp as well. Maybe keep all variants unlocked upon prestige but still need to hit the rank requirement to use them.

I honestly don't even know how I'd feel if they made these changes, but it seems like they did balance a lot of the game around prestiging, which you can just entirely neglect.

And prestiging wouldn't be as huge of a disadvantage if everyone had to do it.

But @hot vigil mentioning incentivizing it more is a better route.

[worthy skiff]

As someone who hoards legendaries, I'd cry if auto prestiging was a thing

[little jackal]

Unfortunately, the idea of even prestiging to 100 at this point feels out of reach because doesn't it take like 5,000 hours?

Maybe if you started in early access or play an unhealthy amount.

[crystal plume]

Depends on the person

I'm pretty confident that I could do it under 1k hours these days

[little jackal]

I am at 700 hours and just assumed Prestige 100 takes much, much more time.

Playing regularly.

[hot vigil]

Which I do, but you still have to use like 20 shots (or even more, can't recall the number atm), so IF you run x4 small vit and makes sure your team-mate punches you in your face at extract (not accounting that you might just die before using them), you'll have to play 5 rounds where you spent 4 small shots + if you want big regen on top of that, that is 20 more shots needed to use.
Issue comes from how much out of the way you need to go to do this and a player needs to sacrifice hunt dollars and resources for grinding the shot.
And yes, if you don't do it like that, you'll end up in situations where you'll grind a whole prestige before even unlocking the shot.

Used to be fine until regen shot got added, but now it is quite bloated.
Same issue that custom ammo have for most weapons unlocks during a prestige run.

[crystal plume]

Pretty sure that teammates using any of their vitality/stamina shots also count

So it doesn't take that long in the end

[hot vigil]

I am not sure about that.

I do know it takes quite the effort to unlock

[crystal plume]

And yeah I did have some prestiges where I didn't care enough to focus unlocking strong vitality shots and ended up unlocking them naturally only at like rank 70 or so, but at that point I didn't really need to care

I was fine with the weak ones and if I didn't unlock the strong ones in that time naturally it just meant that I didn't need them 🤷‍♂️

[hot vigil]

I find that a faulty logic, think it is more telling that small vits ain't performing well enough for you to bother using them.

I want big vit asap bc they matter, small vit simply lacking performance-wise

[hardy coral]

Small vit is just bad.

Was different when they got used relatively quicker.

Which should return I feel.

[hot vigil]

Issue is that even a faster small vit pop doesn't really change a lot.

[hardy coral]

Can vs certain weapons or hits.

[hot vigil]

Usually the difference between a med-kit use and vit use is the urgency for being topped up ASAP.
I pop vit shots when I know people are on my ass and gonna turn the corner to blast me.
In that scenario I need to be full HP and small vit can fail at that sadly.

[winter plover]

None of the usage based unlocks take uses of teammates into account. Need 30 uses for big antidote? Gotta use that poison items 30 times yourself. It's just the most stupid way to unlock anything.

[analog willow]

Throwing my two cents in, I like the weapon unlock system as it currently is, the only slight inconvenience is unlocking knife variants and dusters. Takes a long time, especially with knife, and with knife being the inferior pick, it makes that one a little grindy

I'd love a way to "Favorite" a weapon (possibly through use and mastery of the weapon), and have the base version of the weapon be unlocked at level 1 or 3 or something after prestiging

[opaque glen]

the animation for the machete would be better imo

especially for the heavy attack

[worthy knoll]

The Machete is too Short.
And fuck Animations.

Ideally for that a Katana would be a Combat axe

[opaque glen]

I personally disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion

[hollow raft]

@unkempt gate
Is this the Dark Sight idea I posted, but wanting a different key for it?

[unborn smelt]

@queen jungle Just for clarification.

No one shot "around the corner". As far as the server is concerned, it agrees with the shooters client, that after lag compensation, you would never have gotten around that corner to beginn with.

So their ping doesn't make a shot that would otherwise miss, magically hit, it just means it makes a shot that would otherwise hit earlier (before you reach cover) happen with a short delay, giving you the short lived illusion of having made it to cover.

Still a bad feeling - i get that

But ultimately gameplay wise fair

[elder ibex]

your idea is not needed at all

[late quartz]

At this point in Hunt's life most of the variety in loadouts is locked behind massive unlock trees. With the number of variants and special ammo types, you get fewer viable loadout options if you're prestiging than if you stay at BLR100

The idea that prestiging leads to greater loadout variety is incredibly antiquated and died in 2021 lul

[vital fractal]

Ffs the MMR system is just aesthetics at this point

[winged skiff]

can someone explain to me why the Nitro has bleed ammo? As if it isn't already powerful enough

[hot vigil]

Everyone ask the same, makes bleed makes it better at longer range which was kinda the thing the nitro shouldn't be with its sights

[faint lagoon]

I'm sure a lot of people mentioned this, because this is so obvious, but the shooting range should have every weapon, instead of having some twice! Additionally, loot boxes should be infinite like ammo and I find it extremely annoying that you have to search for weapons. Just make a menu that you can open with a button and equip anything that is in the game. This is a testing ground, it should allow testing. Also, you will not believe, how hard it was to write this message in a neutral tone. It is enormously frustrating how you could fail something so primitive.

[plain yarrow]

I don't know if theres any way to fix this but it's beyond stupid. It isn't only happening to me, it's my entire team. I literally point blank shot a dude with my shotgun in the chest he didnt die. Earlier that game i got a direct headshot with a mosin and it didn't register. This has been happening to my friends as well throughout the last couple days. I don't get it

[trail oasis]

Hope they will work on it with the engine update. I play with 20ish ms and it happen to me all the time when it should not.

[random orbit]

At first i liked the rain but it doesn't seem standard at all, you can't see or hear anything and it's annoying to play, I'm sick of all this rain now, i have to leave every rain map, at least decrease the chance of rain.

[trail oasis]

Tbh i was very enjoying rain at start. Change the pace , look nice and sound was amazing. But the 2 month straight forced in rain map made me also sick of it at the point to when i get rain map i become grumpy and annoyed... They really do need to let peoples choose their condition even if it mean more waiting time for the one who block some condition. I am pretty sure the massive player drop is not only because of the end of event but peoples fed up of rain maps

[worthy knoll]

This was discussed Here many Times. I actually think the Axe would fit. Its two Handed, has only slice Animations and even the heavy Attack would fit very well.

• Its cheap

• Quartermaster needed

[obsidian narwhal]

@queen jungle yeah but m98 isn't period accurate... Whereas the gewehr 95 is :>

I would imagine it too be a carbine variant, medium ammo bolty with a clip mag just like the Mosin

[hot vigil]

Not gonna lie fam, thought I was gonna have to point my finger and say we don't need another bolt action long ammo gun :v

[unborn smelt]

It is period accurate within the other stuff we have in Hunt

We have stuff up to 1905 with the C&K, and spitzer rounds for the mosin were even younger IIRC

[hot vigil]

Well, the browning Auto-5 was technically designed in 1898 :v

[unborn smelt]

Well so was the G98

But mosin spitzer was only adopted in 1908 even

[hot vigil]

Which is to everyones dismay

[unborn smelt]

I could absolutely unserstand not adding the umpteenth long ammo rifle, but i think the "not period correct" argument doesn't hold water with guns like the avto, Mosin spitzer, or C&K

[obsidian narwhal]

Well the avto is supposed to be one of a kind rifle out of a mad armourers wild dreams and would realistically not work at all if it were to be made

The auto5 was designed in 1898 and it sucks enough that we have a semi auto shotgun in Hunt

The c96 is okay in terms of time frame

Spritzer ammo is an aberration

The Bergmann makes no sense and it's not even a good pistol in-game

[hot vigil]

Bergmann is the "fair dolch" of the game :v

[obsidian narwhal]

I guess

But apart from looking cool - although arguably less cool than han solo's broomhandle - its badddd

[unborn smelt]

I think the normal dolch is fair enough to beginn with

🤣

[obsidian narwhal]

This

Is.... Debatable

[unborn smelt]

It never was as popular or as oppressive as people felt it was

[obsidian narwhal]

Wasn't it, though

[unborn smelt]

Numbers wise it was just fine - hence me saying it was fair

But it felt bad enough they nuked it anyway

[obsidian narwhal]

The dolch P was in every sweat's loadout since the beginning

[maiden pelican]

I would rather the game feel good, dolch still has some of the highest potential of a pistol

[unborn smelt]

Yes it was - the devs themselves said the dolch, by statistics was not that notable

[obsidian narwhal]

Interesting.

[maiden pelican]

Depends on how you measure it, but can 2 shot very quickly, deep magazine decent range.

[unborn smelt]

It only was kinda noticable stat wise in the upper 5* to lower 6*, where it allowed worse players to compete with better peeps by throwing money at the "skill issue"

[obsidian narwhal]

I guess that now that it's special ammo and with the ammo resupply changes it's an okay alternative to something like an officer, with worse ammo economy and reload times but more ammo to begin with and a high spam potential

[unborn smelt]

But since stats arent everything they nerfed it anyway so it doesnt feel as bad anymore

[obsidian narwhal]

Wasn't it a three-tap at some point ?

[maiden pelican]

If the economy actually mattered balancing could be a bit easier

[unborn smelt]

But i'd bet my ass it statwise is far off meta by now

[maiden pelican]

Normal nagant and officer were to the chest yes

[obsidian narwhal]

Nothing competes with the narmy dumdum

[unborn smelt]

Ofc not - the new army is basically a reskinned Dolch with minor downsides but a fraction of the price

[obsidian narwhal]

The biggest downsides to me are the way the gun falls back in place after recoil and the god awful sights

Aides from that it's a really good head clicker and if you don't tap the head you can apply bleed anyways

[hot vigil]

I don't know how and why Crytek have done it, but they have made the most awkward and unwieldly recoil system in all of video gaming.

And I guess, that is kinda the point of it in Hunt, but still :b

[obsidian narwhal]

No, that would be tarkov

But I get your point

[hollow raft]

Tarkov's recoil is meant to be bad. People will always say "why is my trained PMC unable to control a full auto spray out of a stock M4" but that question is for "realism" rather than game balance.

Realistic or real doesn't mean good design for games, and people tend to forget that

Shotguns in close quarters are that, and games have always had issues balancing a gun that shoots a spray of pistol damage projectiles in one shot instance

Hunt's design for fair gaming the shotgun was drastically killing the range dropoff

[crystal plume]

I mean, Tarkov is reworking their recoil system afaik

[hollow raft]

What I see when I look at Hunt's design around guns is 3 out of 4 categories of damage/penetration/MV/firerate, and every gun follows this except long ammo bolties and the avtomat.
The firerate is slow on those, but not slow enough as the Sparks
Hence the price hike on long ammo bolties and long ammo meta

[hot vigil]

Make long ammo rifles cycle 0.1 second slower and nerf damage to sub 125 damage!

[hollow raft]

Recoil exists as feature to debuff, but only if you're not hitting well placed shots on your first shots, kind of hard to regulate for PvP since some people are consistent head clickers

Should also note that shotguns have their own strange balancing, where firerate / range
but also buying conveniences of faster firerates from romero>specter>C&K
and the same going on rival>terminus>slate

[steady prism]

honestly... if medium ammo dealt the most damage (which kinda makes sense, its .45 unlike .3 mosin) and long ammo had most penetration and faster rounds but much less damage, i wouldnt mind

[hollow raft]

making all long ammo act like spitzer?

[steady prism]

basically

[hollow raft]

overpen, less damage, high speed

[steady prism]

yes

[hollow raft]

Wouldn't be bad I think

[steady prism]

actually... i dont really like the idea of those 3 categories...

[hollow raft]

also seemed to be what they tried to do with the Krag

adding another long ammo bolty but giving it "overpen/less dmg/high speed"

[steady prism]

i think there should be a bit more imho... like category for derringers (derringer + bornheim)

[hollow raft]

damage/pen/MV should always be balanced for 2 out of the 3 being strengths and 1 weakness

[hot vigil]

Sparks and Martini can keep their damage.

[hollow raft]

firerate and recoil buffs/nerfs only affect the PvP where 2 taps are common

[hot vigil]

And the LeMat Uppercut

[hollow raft]

Yeah, turning long ammo into good speed + pen, but not 125+ damage

[hot vigil]

They could also actually use their sway stat and balance weapons with that, but nope ALL (standard) rifles have the same sway stat, ALL pistols have the same sway stat.

[hollow raft]

Sway could be modified yeah

first shots always matter most in Hunt, if it's a headshot or not

Since sway stays the same, certain guns will always be direct upgrades

[hot vigil]

Also riddle me this: Why does a gun get better (lower) sway when getting a scope attached, going from 77 sway to 69 (nice) sway?
EXCEPT for the Martini-Henry and Springfield, which maintain their 77 sway stat even if you give them scopes?

Why do they hate my Martini-Henry like this?!

[hollow raft]

I'm still unsure why the half size rifles get more sway than pistols

at least the uppercut should be matching mosin obrez sway if they wish to nerf its usage

[hot vigil]

Well, if Hunters braced their aim with two hand when shooting their pistols ADS it would kinda make sense I guess

[hollow raft]

I'm not really looking towards realism, but practical game balancing

there's always an uncertainty of if a heavy or light gun should sway more

[hot vigil]

Tho I can imagine how this thing would have more sway when trying to aim over pistol.

[hot vigil]

For sure