feedback-discussion

[simple helm]

yall are digging deeper than what i'm saying

[late quartz]

Yes this is why KD is a shite metric. You're referring to a hypothetical new metric and just kind of describing it as a perfect thing but KD is a math equation it's literally just two stats with an operator.

How is "relative KD" calculated and how is it different from MMR

[simple helm]

lol

alright man

i cant make it any simpler

[late quartz]

Make it LESS SIMPLE

[simple helm]

it is no different than the MMR system

its just another way to say it

that i want people to understand

[late quartz]

Okay so it's just the current system repackaged for shooter brained gamers so they whine less, like I asked earlier lol

[simple helm]

when they say " kills means nothing for skill "

yes

[late quartz]

So just embrace the fact that people are too stupid to learn how matchmaking works and feed them made up stats ._.

Or give them no stars or KD and just make them cope

[simple helm]

fair enough

i mean back in beta we understood that KD was skill level

before stars

[hardy coral]

MMR is so transparent you can see how it exactly changes kill by kill in the files.

[simple helm]

well i'll see you guys in the game, i'm bout to hop in some matches. was good chatting

[hardy coral]

Hard to read and not necessarily intended ofc but if you really wanna know you can know.

[late quartz]

They don't show you MMR in game for a reason lol

Because visible MMR increases complaining, like kd, and like stars. Old matchmaking was way less balanced but complaining has increased from my observation because of the visible stars

[hardy coral]

You should only be able to see your own KDA.

[late quartz]

I don't even think seeing you own KD is good for anything tbh. People are curious and want to know but I don't think anything good comes from players accessing that statistic

[royal chasm]

What exactly should i add to that? SBMM Matches way higher skilled players against lower skill players and the MMR is useless because the sweat lords chees it in soul suvivor.

[simple helm]

@hardy coral that is an awful suggestion

do you want to play with someone with a 0.10 KD with 2000 hours?

i wouldnt lol

[hardy coral]

You can see their stars.

[simple helm]

oh boy. he headshot an AFK 6 star in a match

[hardy coral]

And if you don't wanna play with bad players you can simply avoid them afterwards.

[simple helm]

as someone with a job and limited time, i dont want to waste my time playing with people i know i wouldnt enjoy playing with

[late quartz]

People can already hide their stats. I don't see a lot of .1 KD players in random queue myself lol

[hardy coral]

Just don't play random queue

[late quartz]

Not that I really think random teammates are a particularly good way to enjoy hunt if you're taking it seriously

[simple helm]

if you really want to keep the star system, there needs to be more stars

[hardy coral]

No...

[simple helm]

increase stars to 8 and we should be good

[hardy coral]

Because it already matches you based on your MMR, the stars are just a representation and don't effect match making.

[simple helm]

i never random queue

[late quartz]

How do you feel that would change players perception of the system?

[simple helm]

i think everyone would be happier with more stars

[hardy coral]

Lets have 5000 stars.

For each and ever MMR.

[simple helm]

you have the super ultra basement dweller bottle pissers at 8 stars

[late quartz]

One star for ever MMR yes

[simple helm]

you have the hardcore sweats at 7

you have the really good players at 6

you got your good average joes at 5

you got your casual decents at 4

you got your super casual and kinda sucky players at 3

you got your grandmas at 2

[late quartz]

Okay here's the question: no changes to matchmaking, only to what MMR relates to what visual star count

What does having more stars do? That just means there more bigger star gaps, you'll have more subdivisions across the same MMR, bigger visual rank gaps, more perceived unfairness

[hardy coral]

So you're basically just saying make 3700-4300 and 4300-5000 stars. Which is pointless.

[simple helm]

theres too big of a jump between 5 and 6 rn

[hardy coral]

Barely anyone is that high in MMR and adding two pointless stars just confuses the system more.

[simple helm]

nah

[hardy coral]

And that's reflected in how the match making actually works.

You aren't matched based on stars, you get matched on MMR.

[simple helm]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-dude-no-oh-bugs-bunny-bugs-gif-22941840

anyways. i'm gonna play some games

[late quartz]

Dude popped in after leaving just to own us twice as hard

[hardy coral]

Well then you don't understand the system. How can a duo of 4 stars have a match MMR of 4.5 stars in a duo game? Why does match MMR go up in halves?

[late quartz]

It would probably be pretty reasonable to have special matchmaking rules for 5 and 6 star, especially in regards to how party modifiers work, since that seems to be where most of the problems are.

But that is just "fix matchmaking" and not really a concrete suggestion... And also completely unrelated to stars or KD or any of the frontend nonsense

[little carbon]

I think this is actually the biggest issue with the MMR system. The average players just doesnt understand how it works.
The fact that stars are just a representation of your ELO and not the brackets themselves seems to be not too well known. Also the existence of brackets themselves and their dependence on regional playercount. I think a lot of people believe the system should only match you with people within close range of their personal ELO, meaning same stars. This can also result in issues with people that are sitting at the low or high end of their bracket with them perceiving everyone they see as stronger or weaker.

[little carbon]

That would hardly be fair.
And i actually dont think there is an actual special issue with 5 to 6 star.
Most likely its just people that are usually sitting at the high end of the bracket that is closest aligned to the (top) end of 4 stars on their region that then flip to the lower end of the next higher bracket for a while.
Of course matches are going to feel a lot worse if you go from being top of your bracket to being bottom of your bracket. But the system is still working then.
And if they are actually playing bad enough in the higher bracket they will fall back.

[late quartz]

How exactly is it not "fair"? What do we mean when we say "fair"?

It's not uncommon at all for games to have special rules for their top bracket, the concerns of the most skilled players and the least skilled players aren't often going to be identical.

I don't see why a system needs to handle all situations the same even if those situations aren't identical. I don't want 5 and 6 stars to be shafted with unbearable queue times or something, which is the only tangible harm I can see coming out of special exceptions for top rank.

I think 5 star is where problems start to arise because that's where anyone reasonably competent will filter into. The jump between mid 4 to low 5 is a pretty significant jump in skill, where at least in my region (EUS) there's a pretty tangible jump from more casual players to "tryhards", players who coordinate, know how to push together, apply pressure, use utility effectively etc.
That's not to say 5 star is all unassailable gamer gods, but it's where hunt starts to feel like an actual PVP shooter and not a funny swamp meme game

[vital fractal]

There is the issue that there are insanely more <5 star players than 2900+ MMR players, (basically high 5, and all 6 star players)

They loosened the brackets for specifically the higher end players queue times at the expense of the more numerous lower elo players and now one can see how much that has impacted lower elo players.

This style of game benefits more from a longer queue time for a more equal matching than it does a shorter queue time for a much more unequal matching.

And if this results in less “full 12 player” lobbies, so be it-

Even now it tries to fill lobbies and you end up with ok matchings with one team clearly having the upper hand in fights, and a spare spot or three.

Increase in queue times and possibility of “empty matches” is 100% worth increased fairness for the entire community

Even then, as population of the gain climbs with popularity- it’ll become less of an issue of load times anyways

[analog willow]

@plain yarrow Might be hard to enforce something like that. What if a teammate legitimately can’t be picked up, and the best solution is to just extract without them? That player would be banned despite doing what was best for the situation

[late quartz]

If the devs didn't want people extracting on revivable teammates they wouldn't let you do it. Leaving you teammates on the floor is a legitimate gameplay decision

[heady cedar]

stars are irrelevant. all that matters is mmr. and currently mmr swings too easily. 1 kill shouldn't be worth 30 mmr in either direction. if you cut the mmr gains and losses by 5x, then people would stick in their mmr range much longer.

[ionic glen]

I post "add a chef character with cleavers as throwing hatches at a stupid curly mustache". Mod tells me it needs more detail. I don't understand. Chef

[rocky heath]

@mellow mural tbh that last sentence "Yes, they'd be useless, but so is starshell, so why not." really sold me. thumbs up for you

[mellow mural]

Bro that's my favorite argument whenever someone gets mad at my ideas like that, just add stuff that's fun, it doesn't have to be meta

[wary hinge]

The exact reason why they should add a musket ^

[rotund obsidian]

im ngl ive taken starshell lemat before unironically

but it was night contract so

[subtle oasis]

Something is seriously up with US East servers for the past few weeks, input delay and delayed interactions on screen has been rampant

[brisk timber]

@opaque glen its because you dont grind this event. You do the weekly challenges every weeks and are set. People doin this every week are mostly done already.

I didnt pay any level boost and even have the charm already aswell.

This event rewards continuation and retention. Coming back every week and do some of the quests. Instead of hard grind. Its a good change. This event actually feel like an ongoing thing and arent brute forced by grind in 3 days.

[hollow raft]

Proof that suggestions aren't read

Post the same thing twice and people are swayed by whether the votes were already up or down when casting their own
herd mentality honestly? I don't mean to be negative, it really just looks like it

Are people really evaluating when casting votes or just herd voting?

[brisk timber]

Definitely. The first votes of post heavily influence where the pendulum can swing. Especially longer descriptions often get downvoted.
Pictures attached helps getting upvotes.

People are stupidly simple.

[hollow raft]

I'm not sure of the issue or the solution, but I think it might be an English communication issue. I'm not so sure about the correlation about longer descriptions, but there definitely are people who don't have a clear output and input of English. My own syntax of descriptions at times are at fault for this, but only to a certain degree.

Or rather that is the issue, and it's an unsolvable issue

[brisk timber]

Probably.
But dont underestimate how lazy ppl can be aswell

I try to keep this stuff short. If i can get my point across in 2-3 sentences people atleast bother to read

[hollow raft]

I think votes should require a feedback, like a review
and that polls should be anonymous to your own view until your own vote is casted

it's a slightly more complicated system, but at least it's more detailed at observing players opinions and views of suggestions/feedback

an up/down/maybe system just doesn't produce reliable results, because some posts end up completely up or down because of it being a "call to action" or biased by results already leaning early

[brisk timber]

Having threads for that would be nice aswell

[hollow raft]

ie when reshade or MMR lowering in QP posts show up, those would be "call to action" type posts

[brisk timber]

In general a more stricter enforcments about the difference between suggestion and feedback would be nice aswell

Sometimes people even just put plain feedback here

[hollow raft]

I suggested that before and it was mixed feedback, and I still don't know why people were for or against it

[brisk timber]

Its so annoying

[hollow raft]

because there were no descriptions along those votes

[brisk timber]

The hide votes before you didnt cast your own would really be dope to prevent bias

[hot vigil]

People are

[analog willow]

I don’t think the votes have any real bearing on the dev’s decisions. Good ideas get through. However, the devs have soooo much they want to do, and not enough time or hands to do it, that even great ideas could take years to implement before there’s time enough to work on it

[hot vigil]

Also just the fact, even beloved ideas by people here might just be.... bad.

I've seen plenty of takes over the years where people want something without thinking of the implecations and effects said idea might cause.

[unborn smelt]

Or people simply don't like others reposting their own ideas which is against the rules as by the pinned message in the #game-ideas channel...

That being said please refrain from doing so in the future or we will have to delete the reposts.

[hot vigil]

People not reading the pin? I am shocketh! :v

Think I am guilty of such tho, I suggested the Berthier, but it was already suggested like 2 years before that.

So take me to discord jail :(

[unborn smelt]

Reposts of ideas that were already suggested by others aren't forbidden anymore

[hot vigil]

But then again, sometimes ideas are suggested in a way that doesn't makes them appealing or not well thought out.
People making low effort "yo add this gun!" and you might agree, but you want to add a little more input on the whys and hows.

[unborn smelt]

because a lot of people had issues finding the old ones even with the search function

However reposting your own idea for more traction or because you didn't like the reactions it got the first time is against the rules

[hot vigil]

aaaaah yeah that makes sense too.

Tho I was actually thinking of such, bc I suggested a weapon years ago, but now I got a little more understanding of the game and feel like I have some adjustment to my suggestion.

[unborn smelt]

If you do want to re-suggest with somewhat significant changes you can do so, just as the pinned post says you have to specify additions to the idea/significant changes so the mods know it's not just a repost for more attention

[hot vigil]

Coolio, I'll keep that in mind :D

[hollow raft]

I specified that it was an update. It got little feedback so I added more to it and 'reposted' it
Even if the person dislikes that it may be a repost, the suggestion itself should reflect the votes

the content of the suggestion

Some posts get what I may guess is about an average of 60 votes across the board if not pushed off the recent posts quickly, which allows a better survey

I understand that the reposting rule is there, if I am not mistaken, to discourage spamming of a suggestion

or reposting until the voting goes in favor of a suggestion
in my case, it wasn't to change the results at all, it was just to collect more survey votes

if people found it favorable or unfavorable across both posts, it would make sense
However, I was sharing that it seems odd that one post would lean positive, while the other would lean negative, without spamming for data

[unborn smelt]

You didn't really add anything to what the suggestion was about - the part you were suggesting was 100% copy and pasted from the last one, i still didn't remove it tho.

However that doesn't change that people may vote just as they like. Maybe diffrent people with diffrent views saw the post and voted on it this time, maybe peoples views have changed or maybe they didn't like you skirting the line to it being just a repost.

in my case, it wasn't to change the results at all, it was just to collect more survey votes
... and that is still against the rules. If everyone was allowed to do so, people would just repost and repost their ideas until they feel they got enough traction and the entire channel could easily be clogged with reposts.

[hollow raft]

In the case that a suggestion doesn't receive enough votes the first time, how long would one have to wait to try suggesting it again?
Some days 50 posts will push recents away quickly, and other days the last 10 will remain for a while

[unborn smelt]

Technically - reposting them just for new attention isn't allowed at all, no matter the period between the posts, because there is no such thing as "doesn't receive enough votes". Some ideas people may not vote, because they simply not care for example, and the number of votes doesn't determine if the devs consider adding the idea or not

[hollow raft]

I appreciate you enforcing the rules as a mod
This is just an opinion that I feel it is a rule that seems arbitrary. If someone posts an idea, they are free to continue reposting as many revisions of it as long as it is updated, until either they give up or the voting is in their favor, if this is their goal. This in itself may appear spammy.
Comparing this to someone who may delete an idea that is voted badly upon, then reposts it the next day. This being the case the rule is in place to prevent.
Then a third case of someone who may post an idea, the idea gets pushed away by 50 new ideas made that same day following their post and receives some votes (even with a few votes, descriptive feedback would help a lot, but we don't have a thread system, so the best is to gather numeric data; discussed above), and they would like to know what the community may think of their suggestion, so they may wait a week/a month/several months to try suggesting it again, but technically this is not allowed, and I find that this is one arbitrary part of the rule

[tribal wyvern]

Just me whos excited to join discord trio voice chats today & onward. To see what execuses people make up to why they die 🙂 .
Heard it so often lately "fucking reshade user" when they die & hell even i got asked & accused of being a reshade user by my own teammates because i kill ppl on night map & rain.

Now you have NO execuses & if you die you suck

Because lets be real, expecting more than 100 ppl of the total playerbase actively exploiting the reshade to such extent that they get immune to flashbangs or see 200m without issues is just delusional.
Won't affect 99.99% of all games

[little carbon]

People are just going to fall back to blaming ping for everything. Or just call hacks/cheats in general.
People are way to quick to call tampering. The guy i am playing Hunt with regularly has his steam profile open for comments and is collecting cheating accusations and i couldnt belive how quickly the comments pile up.

[tribal wyvern]

Ye i had my profile open aswell, but then i started getting death threats & people telling me to go die in a car fire so :D. Felt like i did not need that kind of negativity so i put it to private.

It's a bit surprising though that i can play 3k hours, count the amount of hackers on one hand.
But someone with 500 hours have met more hackers than I have finger & toes combined.

[karmic ivy]

automation cannot verify the veracity of the report. I don't see how action can be taken without verification. That would give an inappropriate amount of influance to an unverified report that could be true OR false.
So...
What about the false reports? how does your automated script handle them?

[queen jungle]

you mean, not pairing again until verification? It´s not auto ban. If a person masses up so many reports of tk that he finds no matches... then something is really wrong. Else you don´t get paired with someone who either is malicious against you or has a valid reason. Kind of confused what the problem is. Are you sensing "freedom" cut down?

[karmic ivy]

I mean, if the report is false or wrong. No action should be taken. How does your automated script do this?
You seem to be suggesting that action should be taken, and a filter applied to the reporting player. Without verificaiton of the veracity of the report.

[soft river]

@crude karma I'm all for interesting ideas but this may be the only suggestion I wouldn't want

because this gun would suck

[crude karma]

yea you right, ill probly delete later

[analog willow]

@waxen stump Interesting idea!

[brisk timber]

I think the ravens or bugs or whatever is probably too much of a give away

Sitting still for some time is just a legit way to play sometimes

ambushing people or just hide if you need to

But i feel like there has to be some sort of a little give away that isnt too overtuned tho

i think something like heavy breathing that you can hear in a somewhat close range - maybe 10m or so - would be great for hunters in general

So if someone is actively searching you or tries to sneak up on you he has a chance to know your there if hes getting close slowly

[analog willow]

How I interpreted it was a single crow, high in the air, just kind of mindlessly wandering in the general area of someone staying still for long periods. Probably too much, even that, but an interesting thought!

[brisk timber]

This would be a hard counter to any ambush tactics :S

[analog willow]

Wouldn’t really want that over a boss compound though. Would have to be something that only occurred in the wooded areas or open ground

[brisk timber]

nobody hardly camps in the open tho
people always say the enemy "camps" while those people actually maybe sit there for a hot minute because they see/hear you comin their way and ambush.

The real campers are the ones in boss areas and compounds

occupying buildings for minutes on end

[little bronze]

Just throwing it out there, I understand why ReSahde is forbidden but it does hinder your colorblind players

[brisk timber]

From what i have read the colorblind people themselfe arent on the same Page about that. Some say so the others dont

[tribal wyvern]

It is a bit surprising it hasn't been added. It's sucha standard setting, it's not like they're an indie company that released their first game. They know better...

Just lazyness as usual and hey maybe we can throw in the execuse that theres not enough people to be profitable to put the effort in. Like they use for not adding servers in certain regions 🙂

[tribal wyvern]

Ye welcome to reality where not every colorblindness is identical.

[brisk timber]

Thanks for the warm welcome

[queen jungle]

As it seems, there was no verification action taken at all. No proof was requested and the TKer was back in the game... which sheds a bad light on crytek and the game. But I don´t think you get the concept of what I´ve suggested. May peace and wisdom guide you on your path ❤️

[white pewter]

Add color blind mode

[karmic ivy]

I think I understood it enough. Unless I missunderstand you, you mean to say you think it would be easy to automate the filtering of players that you can be matched with.
Was I wrong?

[brisk timber]

#game-ideas message
@hot python
Would be so nice if you could make your dead hunter raise the arm with a thumbs up or middlefinger
Would be too immersion breaking but the thought of a bunch of dead hunters showing you the finger is kinda funny

[hot python]

Lol, I was thinking something more subtle but that is a funny thought

[indigo mesa]

after the new update it has said this but i am not actually banned and i am not using reshade or anything

[granite crystal]

It's a bug dw, just click OK and go back to the game

[queen jungle]

To make it clear: A report of TK or whatever gets issued against player X by Y. Matchmaking in random duos/trios stops pairing them until the report has been investigated and verified or cleared.
If someone is report-spamming he will just hurt himself as he won´t find players to play with.
If someone manages to piss so many people off that he can´t find any matches because of this... There is a 99.99999% chance he is actually really shitty.
Crytek isn´t as big as it was in it´s glory days and costumer support is a small team. So a simple automation helps. As the player was paired with me again and joking around to just do it again, my guess is they haven´t even looked into it yet. Sheds a bad light on a otherwise good game.

[rotund obsidian]

a simple "do not matchmake with" list would be fine, or i suppose just disallow matchmaking with people you've blocked on steam (but disabled public stats means ppl cant link to your steam right? so i guess that wouldnt work)

[steady vapor]

@trail oasis I want some expensive hunt dollar legendarys and skins for late game content grind

Like a $500,000k hunt dollars one

[hot vigil]

please no, we don't need to punish prestige people even further

[hollow raft]

There truly is a lot of coping, every game where someone wants to feel competent in what they feel is a competitive environment will have it
Even if it isn't exploits at fault, it will be A) they're cheating/exploiting B) my teammates aren't good C) I don't belong in my rank

Beyond the meme of copium, it unfortunately is the reality of some behaviors of some PvP gamers

There are people who have never touched the report button for a cheater in Hunt, and are more likely to do so for an extremely toxic/VOIP abusing report

Then there some who submit a report every few games for an alleged cheater

[dusky jolt]

what happend asia server ??? keep disconnecting ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tired elm]

@visual owl
Title: Better shooting range

Description: Instead of the shooting ranges being hosted through a server in multiplayer, it should be hosted through an individuals network. This will make it so that the shooting ranges for multiplayer will no longer be timed for 25 minutes, but rather be open as long as the host is in the shooting range match.

Also in addition to this, add every weapon and variant into the shooting range and allow taken guns, consumables or used world items such as tool boxes and medkits to automatically respawn and replenish, similar to the infinite ammo crates around the range. Doing this will allow more extensive testing on guns that haven't been unlocked for new players and allow players to make their own minigames using the shooting ranges arsenal.

Another suggestion on top of this is to rig up a movement system on the training dummies by using a pulley system that is activated by the steam generators that are typically found in every compound. Having moving training dummies will definitely help players be able to learn the leading distance that is created by the different muzzle velocities by the guns in the game. (I found that leading shots was a difficult learning when I first started playing hunt and I believe this will encourage the former skill of accuracy that hunt formally had rather than the reliance on RNG weapons and traits that endure RNG eg. "Levering")

ABSOLUTLEY THIS

[visual owl]

@tired elm anything you would add to this?

[trail oasis]

i would love to. kinda bored to prestige and having to restart from scratch with boring loadout so ive took a break and now sitting on like 100k hunt dollars and i dont wanna prestige and lose them but in other hand theres no real use. would find it cool if we could have a hunter or some stuff to have a target goal before prestige instead of being stuck at losing everything or never prestiging.

[tired elm]

This is perfect, maybe the ability to have another duo or trio join. Or respawn able sound traps? Or small scale soul survivor between the three available compounds, but best not to over complicate

[flat sandal]

@trail oasis that's not a bad idea actually

[obsidian narwhal]

@prisma sundial you mean this?

[prisma sundial]

thx :3 I didn’t realise this was already a thing

[karmic ivy]

You cannot take action on a report until it has been verified. That would be foolish. You seem to be suggesting that the game take action BEFORE ANYTHING is verified.

No one serious about a game would give that kind of control over the game to players and players alone. They cannot be trusted to report honestly and therefore must be verified.

[queen jungle]

Interesting take. I guess you just read half what I wrote but I can´t bother.
So rather have people endure rampant TKers and cheaters because Crytek does not seem to take any actions within a reasonable amount of time... okay. Let´s go with that.

[karmic ivy]

I read it all, you can rest assured. lol what good would it do to read only half of what people write? you jest?

You as a player do not have the information you would need to say that. How can you make this judgment?

"...Crytek does not seem to take any actions within a reasonable amount of time......"

wouln't you need to know at least some bit of information? Like what they did do, and when they did it?

[spice topaz]

I'm quite sure that if someone gets tkd they know that they got tkd. No need to punish people without verification but an ability to block player from getting teamed up with you doesn't need verifications.

[karmic ivy]

You should learn about how Hunt works. Ping abuse has been shownto be just a myth.

Don't let fear of cheats ruin your fun.

I can recommend some vids if you want to learn.

[karmic ivy]

"...an ability to block player from getting teamed up with you doesn't need verifications...."
It certainly would...
Any action taken, that changes the game in such a way, MUST be verified. To not do this would be foolishness.
You can not trust the veracity of reports. And no one in the game industry gives players that kind of power in their game. I don't think you have considered ALL the avenues of possiblity, a change like this would open up.

Problems would arise, I can promise you that. Problems that do not exist now, why would we invite them?

And besides that, we already have the ability to report and have action taken against team killers.

[queen jungle]

Since reshade is banned - add some post processing shaders like various sharpening techniques, color inversion, etc - Tarkov did this similar asslooking colors scheme and some levels even just made them darker and darker till butthole.

Why keep muddy scenery?

[spice topaz]

Yes, severe matchmaking problems after every other player has blocked one person that now can't find a random team. At which point someone might consider the complaint verified. Or when someone has blocked every other player and now can't find a team.
Certainly it would add another check into the matchmaking though according to peer testimonials there doesn't seem to be many checks atm.
Should Crytek verify your action before you can mute someone on voip in the middle of a match? If an action affects only you in practice then where is the problem? The block list and report would/should probably be separated even though I know I would probably not have the energy to file the actual report.
If the alleged team killer is proven to be a team killer then they should receive their penalty after a due process.

[dense sapphire]

Cus that’s part of he aesthetic. Hunt is supposed to be dirty, muddy, and grimy. I do think a colorblind mode should be added though

[vital fractal]

The grime of Hunt is why I support the idea of heavy rain, thunderstorms, and night fog-

Just really grimy and horror related weather events with significant effects on gameplay.

The vibes and feel of significant weather effects serve to boost the hunt Themes-

[karmic ivy]

Muting a persons voice, does not carry the same power as initiating and building a persistent team-mate filter. One can be allowed without issue, the other not.

One major difference is a person can still try to talk to you if you have muted them. Nothing changes for them, yes?
A filter does not allow that person to match with you. Things change for them...
You see?

[spice topaz]

And they notice this change how? The change affects them how?

[karmic ivy]

Consider a low population region.
Players in the smallest MMR bracket probably see eachother fairly often.
Now imagine if someone hates another player enough to incite false rumor about them and tells other players they meet to block the hated player...

Can you see where this is going or should I continue?

[karmic ivy]

Well, got to run, hit me up if that ^ does not show you what I mean sufficiently.

[feral oriole]

I sure do love playing night maps and never loading into single bounties ever!
-said no one

[devout veldt]

Single bounties are the best

I love getting into the yeehaw moshpit

[hearty adder]

@frail dust Would love to play officer and a gentleman load out: sword in one hand, issue pistol in the other. Or Mel Gibson tomahawk/single shot combo

[vital fractal]

As cool as a pirate sort of load out is, I would not like to see Hunt get what essentially boils down to a “tactical knife” upgrade available in game 👁👁

[frail dust]

I can understand why you say that, perhaps it wouldn't be as much of a tactical knife scenario if they made it so that any weapon takes more stamina to use if doing a melee/side arm combo

You kind of already have a "tactical knife upgrade" tho, just less damage = Caldwell Pax Claw

[vital fractal]

Yeah but it’s a separate weapon that does the damage and effects of a tool melee

It wouldn’t be like a Dolch + machete combo weapon

Or more likely a Caldwell New Army + Machete combo

[brisk timber]

tbh a cool pistol + knife combo wouldnt be that bad

[vital fractal]

It’s just a bit powercreepy as an idea is all

I’m against it for that reason

[frail dust]

You would have a slower reload speed

Because you'd have to sheathe the weapon first then start reloading

I'd machete and sabre would add a second or two because you'd be sheathing to your side

Axe and hammer would add on, just taking a wild guess with all of the melee weapons but for the axe and hammer I'd say they'd add on about 2-3 seconds due to the fact that you gotta reach behind your shoulder and sheathe

I'm logging on now so I'll give you the exact stats with the wild guess addition

[native lodge]

🤔 as long as there some draw back to it its fine, its not like it would be better than any number of things in that cqc role

[frail dust]

Exactly

Having a melee and pistol is about as powerful as fanning

[native lodge]

yeah

[frail dust]

Anyone can still take down someone with fanning with a shotgun

Or even a headshot

And yeah, I get that guy with a sword and pistol can one shot someone at a meter or even shoot, move a few feet, and then quick slash but there are still plenty of ways to counter that

1. Shotgun
2. Fanning
3. Levering
4. Headshot with any gun
5. Nitro/Crossbow/Hand-Crossbow/Bow/Bomb Lance Steel Ball
6. Distance
7. Bomb Lance Melee (this is a maybe because I think the bomb Lance has slightly more reach than other melee)
   Etc.

There are more ways to die using a melee and pistol than to kill with it lol

[autumn stump]

the time for being worried about power creep is long gone we've got a borderline lever action martini now, the "tac knife" thing isnt gonna impact anything

[vital fractal]

Enh, you can always be worried about power creep- that’s the point, it’s always a little bit here and little bit there that adds up

The iron side is powerful yes, but it’s still below the mosin or lebel in it’s role w/o levering too

However what I would adore added to the game is a single slot pistol with a Deadeye scope

Perhaps the pax or even sparks pistol with a Deadeye

The medium ammo of the pax means drop off is very balanced while the single shot nature of the sparks pistol + lack of stability would be interesting as a back up- then again this may be bias since I love scoped pistols

I feel like keeping the only scopes pistol a nagant (and fine the carbine too) is a disservice to that class of weapon, as fun as it is

[late quartz]

Where's the power creep? We have a variety of melee variants on weapons, this is something that would require traits, increase the slot requirement of weapons, presumably it could disable fanning as well.

The most obvious benefit is it would give these largely unused melee weapons some place in the game as well.

Power creep implies we're making old tools completely outshined or invalid

[worthy knoll]

Concerning the melee weapons the Hammer should have Just been a reskin If the Axe, but Blunt damage. Same price, Same Stats, Same stamina Cost. But Blunt damage.

[late quartz]

I mean the difference between blunt and rending damage matters enough that I can see the justification, the problem is more that taking a melee weapon in your weapon slot is fucking terrible in 99.9% of loadouts.
The hammer is no less justifiable than the axe, they both exist in a game that doesn't support them being used

I'd definitely like to see a trait that lets them be used in the tool slot, so long as it's sufficiently expensive

[worthy knoll]

The Hammer, or rather a Blunt weapon was asked or by the Community for a Long Time. And now its way subpar to the Axe... make it more expensive If you must but why is it so much worse.
On that Note: Who actually uses the new Guns introduced?
I have used The FatMat maybe 3-4 Times, the Hammer once and the Drilling is nice but way too expensive...

[hardy coral]

Drilling is worth the price. Uppermat is in an off spot, isn't terrible, just isn't that viable.

At least over some other medium slot picks.

[knotty ore]

Uppermat is insanely good

Bow + Matt is probably like a T1 loadout

Shotgun + Matt is great too

[rotund obsidian]

I'd use uppermat if it were cheaper for the double 2-slot loadouts sometimes

[worthy knoll]

Drilling does Not Deliver Mosin Performance while being Mosin priced. Especially when Most people value it based on also using Slugs (and FMJ or DumDum). Which makes it even more expensive. The Damage sucks and medium drop Off sucks even more.

The Big LeMat (Not calling it that stupid Name) is Off because its a 2 Slot. Where the Uppercut a 2 Slot too Nobody would Care.
And dont argue now that "it has a Shotgun With slugs". Yeah and Nobody Cared about that in the regular LeMat which has the Same Shotgun, so we only have to really evaluate the Pistol Part. And that sucks for the price. Damage is lower than Uppercut and the reload is soooo slow.

[knotty ore]

Its like the same price as an uppercut

[worthy knoll]

I agree that this is viable If you Like the gun.

[rotund obsidian]

uppercut also expensive as shit but it is op, so whatever

[knotty ore]

Drilling is straight trash because its muzzle velocity is completely fucked based on at which point in the game you are using the gun. If server is full there is an absolutely noticeable delay between you firing and bullet exiting muzzle. Causes you to miss very close shots that should be instant.

[rotund obsidian]

what

[knotty ore]

Low tickeate servers have issues when they are full as all players are alive

Tickrate drops

When more people die tickrate goes up

[rotund obsidian]

hitreg is mostly clientsided?

[knotty ore]

Its not hitreg its just a weird like 20ms delay between firing animation and projectile.

For some reason mostly just affects the drilling and crown

Drilling muzzle velocity feels fine to you?

[worthy knoll]

Its cheaper, does more damage and is 1 slot. So yeaj

[knotty ore]

Drilling's 510 muzzle velocity feels slower than conversion fmj to me

At least when servers are full up

[rotund obsidian]

i haven't noticed that at all

[knotty ore]

It may be a weird firing animation that lags and not the bullet

Something is seriously wrong with how that gun feels

[hardy coral]

I still don't see how the fastest rifle two tap and what is basically a specter on the same weapon is not worth the price or gives mosin performance.

Uppermat is only helped by how the slugs are broken, otherwise it's just a worse Centennial Shorty.

Like how Lemat would just be a worse conversion pistol, except that's a small slot so the slug is even more impressive.

[coral nimbus]

Why isn't there any rewards after level 50 of the battle pass?
Just like every other game that has a chest for random loot after the last level of it's battle pass, this should be standard. For more incentive to play. Same or better potential rewards from the tribute feature. I don't see why this isn't a default thing. I would have expected it to be added by this event and new battle-pass. It's enough that the skins this time around have very poor rating

[dull mason]

People sleeping on the UpperMat fr. Fire rate is great on it and extra shotgun reserve is very helpful whether using slugs or buckshot. I would say it's the highest potential medium slot in the game.

[dull mason]

There is an extra charm reward at the end of the pass, not great incentive but it's there

[brisk timber]

Its so crazy how people judge the Uppermat so onesided
While comparing it always Uppermat vs Uppercut and the only aspect they see is its long ammo damage.
Not it dps but the 1 hit damage.

The uppermats long ammo performance is like comparing Mosin vs Krag
You trade in some damage for a better RoF
That doesnt bring it on paar with the Uppercut in that regard
But the Uppermat has more stuff that it brings to the table than just its pure long ammo 1shot performance

[dull mason]

One of my favourite loadouts has been taking any shotgun with slugs + UpperMat with slugs, covers pretty much every base very nicely.

[hardy coral]

Uppermat isn't really that comparable to uppercut when it's a medium slot.

Just compare to cent shorty. You pay 4x extra for it for a slightly slower ROF, a shotgun (that's only good if you pay an extra 65 making it about 5x more) 3 extra bullets loaded but 3x less pickup and a longer reload but a slightly longer range stock.

Not headshot range tho.

Oh and lower velocity.

And a tiny difference in sway.

[brisk timber]

If you pair it with a long ammo main gun that are lacking ammo than you gain +9 bullets
Thats often 1/3 more base ammo and is huge
While you gain a good mid range RoF long ammo and close range shotgun as a backup

Thats no joke for a long ammo rifle loadout as a sidearm

[hardy coral]

And you have terrible pickup then.

It's not worth pairing them together.

[brisk timber]

What pickup mate. If you play as a cent you wouldnt pick up more long ammo aswell
But then you would have a cent you dont need with something liek a krag or mosin

Maybe if shotguns had less reserve and the uppermat would have +2 more shotgun bullets
people would understand more what this gun is about

it seems to always gets compared with its shotgun synergy

[hardy coral]

Point is that when you're using uppermat to stack more long ammo in reserve you're basically giving your second slot up.

Which would be better filled by a different weapon that gives you close range firepower anyway.

[brisk timber]

You dont. As you still have a potent slug shotgun

[hardy coral]

It's good but not great. All of the other handcannons are better than it even if they have the same range.

[brisk timber]

All of the other hand cannons dont boost your ammo pool

So annying always picking one aspect and shitting on it

Uppermats shotgun is shit there are better shotty
Its long ammo is shit there are better long ammos
Its rof is shit there is better rof medium ammo

OF CAUSE
but is there a gun that has it all?

no

[hot vigil]

I like the LeMat Uppercut c:
Think the shotgun could be a little better for buckshot spread tho.
Not to say that I haven't killed people with the buckshot part, bc I have.

[brisk timber]

If i sport a Krag or Mosin and find a Uppermat hell yea awesome
theres hardly a better ALLROUND sidearm 🙂

imagine uppermat would be top notch at everything
Damage like Uppercut
Shotgun like C&K
RoF like cent

sure it would never lose any comparison
but damn this gun would be op

You have to make compromises for its versatility - same story with the drilling

[hardy coral]

In the situation that you're using it as an ammo pool for either long ammo or slug shotguns you are making the tradeoffs by not taking other weapons. I'm saying that its versatility in that area doesn't make up for its relatively mediocre performance.

I'm still not sure how it would be buffed, the shotgun on it and the lemat is problematic and all slugs need changed. It'd really do better with a lower cost (Like 310-340), slightly quicker reload, stronger buckshot (but slightly weaker slugs) and maybe more damage (but under 125).

And drilling isn't really comparable since the gun doesn't make sacrifices to be versatile. It is simply limited by its own design, a design which gives it incredible strengths.

[worthy knoll]

Which requieres Quartermaster...

[brisk timber]

And? Any leveld hunter benefits from QM anyway

You either take QM or something like fanning
taking nothing at all to boost your 2nd slot is no argument like at all

The sawn off shotty all need QM if you pair them with a Rifle

[hardy coral]

QM isn't a massive investment but it's still an investment.

[brisk timber]

tbh not Uppermat is the problem but rather Uppercut
this gun has been a bit overtuned for some time
thats why it was raised in price in the firstplace
I wouldnt mind if it was made 2slot aswell

[hardy coral]

The uppercut would be bad as a 2 slot weapon. It simply needs its firerate reduced.

[brisk timber]

Its an investment you would take nontheless so its a bit of a ghost argument

[hardy coral]

There's plenty of good 1 slot weapons I'd consider using over the medium slot ones still.

None are really straight upgrades.

[worthy knoll]

Any loadout that needs it... Well needs it. Its at a disatvantage since you May Not Play it immediatly.
Doctor e.g. is great, a must Pick, but you can play without it. If I want to Take Mosin + FatMat i need Quartermaster (and bulletgrubber and Iron sharpshooter). So in Essence, compared to the Uppercut, i pay for Quartermaster to have 3 more bullets in Reserve... Is that enough zu justify it? Because the crappy Shotgun certainly is Not.

[vital fractal]

Honestly the uppercut and UpperMat should have their damage values swapped-

[worthy knoll]

Yes, or the LeMat be a 1 slot. It would be enough to make it passable. Less damage for more versatility.

[vital fractal]

I think that’s a good way to balance it- and make UpperMat a viable option compared to uppercut and balance the upper cut

[hardy coral]

The uppermat would be too strong as a single slot.

[vital fractal]

UpperMat should stay 2 slot

[hardy coral]

It's not bad, it needs tweaks. Medium slot weapons are generally awkward anyways.

[worthy knoll]

I could See that too. Yeah you have a Long Ammo Option in 1 slot gut it cannot one tap a downed Hunter anymore. You need Quartermaster for that.

[brisk timber]

tbh im not a fan of that
I think the uppercut made Shotgun loadouts way to viable to begin with

[vital fractal]

Exactly, upper cut gives you long range damage but you still need two taps

Good balance

[hardy coral]

Uppercut only really makes certain loadouts too strong with the firerate. You aren't at a disadvantage compared to other single action pistol or even against most rifles as the firerate is the same or better.

[worthy knoll]

Until Its not I will Always compare it Not only to the Uppercut but the obrez too... For almost 150 cheaper.

[brisk timber]

Well thats basically the thing
Those guns are meant to be upgrade to when you can afford it and have a leveld hunter
Its not really awkward - but it feels like it if you play it without QM

[hardy coral]

Obrez is not comparable to uppermat os uppercut.

[vital fractal]

It needs to be balanced because of the fact it makes “certain loadouts too strong” as compared to many other weapons or the UpperMat in this case which makes no loadout “too strong”- the fact this one weapon has the power to make a loadout too powerful alone is an issue

[brisk timber]

Fuckin Uppercut just put most 2slot guns to absurdum

[vital fractal]

Hence why I don’t think it should 1 tap a downed hunter with 25 hp missing

[hardy coral]

Centennial shorty is generally better than it.

[vital fractal]

That low sway, high accuracy, and decent fire rate with 1 tap ability is insane for one slot

[brisk timber]

Yea it should be because its a 2slot

good design

[hardy coral]

And so lose its unique feature? I keep arguing that the reason it's strong at all distances is the firerate.

It only puts the springfield compact to "absurdum" because that gun sucks.

Oh and I suppose the scotfield precision, which also sucks.

[vital fractal]

If it’s unique feature is relying on what makes it one of the best choices in the game- yes, for balance

[brisk timber]

I dont know which lever to adjust but im happy we can agree that with the addition of Uppermat its more clear that Uppercut is overtuned

[hardy coral]

I seriously don't believe that it having 126 makes it OP at all.

[vital fractal]

It’s not just that, it’s how the sum of all of its stats makes it one of the best options overall

[brisk timber]

The reduced RoF route i would likely more be in favour of

[vital fractal]

I think damage would be the way to go, but there are other balancing methods

Price is not one though- unless they decide to make it a custom tier like Dolch or nitro lol

Even then, that’s taking it out of non-hunt addict hands only

And I mention swapping out uMat with uCut damage values as I think it would balance both quite nicely

You go from uCut < uMat < oMosin for range and damage increase

To me, that seems natural

[brisk timber]

i would have Uppercut and Uppermat rather be brothers than father/son

😄

[hot vigil]

All long ammo pistols and bolt-action rifles should be lowered to sub 125 damage.

[vital fractal]

Whar

[brisk timber]

And shotguns range doubled and OHK range halfed!

very good

[hardy coral]

[brisk timber]

we are getting there 🙂

[hardy coral]

Like some sort of reverse sweetspot mechanic could help reign in the point blank power of the bolt actions but they are are balanced by their damage against each other.

[hot vigil]

Not sure about that tho

Feel like the OHK range is already quite short.

[hardy coral]

Shotguns could use a little more damage outside of their OHK range but making them effective out to like 30-40 metres would ruin the game immediately.

[hot vigil]

yeah

[brisk timber]

then i dont want no long ammo nerf >:|

[vital fractal]

Personally I’d like to see explosive ammo be relevant but… the main reason I see it not be adjusted is the upper cut 👁👁

If it wasn’t on the uppercut I could the developers not having too much of an issue buffing it

[brisk timber]

Explo ammo should be removed from the game alltogether

[hardy coral]

Uppercut explosive is garbage anyway. Explosive ammo is decent but made extremely inconsistent by bulwark.

[vital fractal]

It’s not decent at all lmao

It does 2 things and that’s really it

[hardy coral]

It's fine vs people who don't have bulwark.

[vital fractal]

So are normal bullets

[hot vigil]

Well, it used to be a menace (for console).

[vital fractal]

Here’s what it is up against

[vital fractal]

That’s my point, uppercut ruined it

[hardy coral]

You basically can't deal splash to people who have bulwark and your damage is cut badly so you can't 2 shot.

[brisk timber]

Explo ammo is such a shit take on aiming its borderline offensive to have it in the game
Overtuned its damage and its OP or make it low and its useless
It mostly appeals to console players or people who cant aim accurately

[hardy coral]

Explosive crossbow also can't one shot people with bulwark.

Martini explo does damage out to about 5 metres away.

Tiny amount ofc, max of 50.

Max before drop if you hit them I think is 100 bullet damage+35 explo?

[dull mason]

Explosive ammo is the most gimmicky ammo that rifles have by far, I don't think it will ever be viable and tbh I don't think it should ever be viable.

[dusky tapir]

yeah it's mostly meant to be "hey you can pop windows"

[dull mason]

Gotta say though, explosive Martini + dynamite bundle is a really funny combo

[vital fractal]

I think explosive ammo should be viable beyond open door and concertina

[brisk timber]

Viable for what? To shoot at someones feet and still do massive damage?

its stupid and leads the gameplay ad absurdum

[coral nimbus]

yeah capped at 150K xp, that's just lazy and dumb, last event the charm was linked with level 50, not even have to get more xp.

[vital fractal]

Honestly, explosive ammo should be a force to be wary of without bulwark but also balanced by the fact it is only in nitros or single shot weapons

it should be unique in how it does massive damage to every boss- including rotjaw, and does a good base damage ballistically and decent explosive damage per range

[hardy coral]

Bulwark needs removed before it can be balanced.

Because I'd argue that right now it is actually good since it's strong at finishing already hit targets, the radius is quite good at about about 4.5-5 metres. But losing a good chunk of your damage randomly makes it too frustrating a pick.

[dull mason]

I think a nice bulwark nerf would be specifying the damage reduction to not work on ammunition so the focus of it is on consumables and barrels

[dusky tapir]

some throwables deal damage in the thousands

[azure elm]

I’ve never thought bulwark is too powerful or broken.

[hardy coral]

And quickly drop off.

[hardy coral]

It should only apply to your own and friendly explosives.

[hardy coral]

Cutting explosive damage in half and therefore surviving a bomb lance harpoon or the explosive crossbow is extremely strong when it occurs.

Also whenever it saves you from being killed by dynamite or an explosive barrel that otherwise would've.

[azure elm]

Right, you bring a consumable that does 1000 damage, I bring bulwark. If you’re accurate with the throw you can still kill me.

[hardy coral]

I just bring the frag bomb instead since it doesn't technically deal explosive damage.

[azure elm]

There’s another option.

You have consumables I have a half counter measure. Doesn’t seem so powerful.

[hardy coral]

It is extremely powerful for the weapons it basically hard counters. It letting you survive dynamite is also super strong. The only trait to do something even remotely similar is hornskin which only stops the dusters and obrez mace from one shotting you.

[azure elm]

Dusters only one shot to the head don’t they? Don’t bring the dusters. Knuckle knife costs the same and does more damage.

[past socket]

8 games. 5 rains, 2 night 1 fog, HOW DARE YOU SAY YOU DIDN'T MODIFY RATES ? I see people leaving games left and right, I do it as well, what do Crytek do about it ? NOTHING....

[hardy coral]

They one shot to the head but only if they don't have hornskin.

[azure elm]

There seems to always be a work around. Bringing a frag=bulwark useless.

[brisk timber]

#feedback

[hardy coral]

"Just because one weapon isn't totally trashed then it's fine."

Dynamite is already balanced against the frag bomb, bulwark doesn't and shouln't exist.

[brisk timber]

Reduce explo dmg by 25% and remove bullwark

[hardy coral]

Explosive damage and kill ranges for dynamite and frag bombs need tweaking but bulwark makes that hard to do.

Same for salveskin vs fire, antidote shot vs poison and to a lesser extent dum dum vs bloodless.

[brisk timber]

yea you cant balance something when introduce another thing that totaly throws off the balance

[azure elm]

You choose your loadout. If you take something that can be countered by a perk and you know it, then how can it be op? You’re knowingly taking something that can be countered and then saying it’s op.

[hardy coral]

Should regular bullets have a perk counter them? What about FMJ, HV, etc?

There's no interactivity with any of these perks.

[azure elm]

I mean, move farther away for FMJ, go behind cover for HV.

[hardy coral]

They don't need to do anything at all, it's not even like lightfoot where they need to actively fall, vault etc.

[hardy coral]

So why can't the same apply to explosives and other special ammo?

[azure elm]

Bleed has bloodless. Fire has salveskin. Explosive has bulwark. They all have a counter.

Get rid of all of them then.

Otherwise you’re just complaining because you’re playing something that’s clearly not working for you.

[brisk timber]

Those all just half heartedly counter the status effect and not the dmg of that shot

[hardy coral]

Yeah, that's my argument.

[azure elm]

So take different consumables.

[brisk timber]

Imagine Salveskin would halfe Fire Ammo damage 😮 haha

[hardy coral]

"Just don't take dynamite because it sucks ass."

Okay.

[brisk timber]

everyone would rightfully go bonkers

[hardy coral]

Salveskin is kinda bs tho.

[azure elm]

God everything is bs.

[brisk timber]

Its mostly about the guns tho. Nobody really gives a f about dynamite 😄

[azure elm]

Why not just delete the whole perk system?

[hardy coral]

Mithridatist is whatever since poison times are so overlong that it makes them bearable. Antidote just nullifies it and makes it not worth pushing off poison.

[azure elm]

This complaining is bonkers.

[hardy coral]

Because most of them are fine bonuses or extra abilities.

[hardy coral]

"This complaining is bonkers." As he proceeds to not engage with the substance of the argument.

[azure elm]

Except the ones that you can’t figure out how to counter…?

[dull mason]

That would make it ridiculously useless, my suggestion covers your first point entirely, and I think that a bit more survival vs nades and barrels is fine. That is what the perk was made for after all.

[hardy coral]

And why should the perk exist?

Why should a perk give you a flat damage reduction in the first place?

[azure elm]

It seems like a fair trade. You pay more for a consumable that doesn’t have a direct counter besides out running it or getting behind substantial cover. You take the others, you might get countered.

[dull mason]

Same reason the others do, to add components to the game and give a reward for getting hunters out alive

[brisk timber]

I would like to point out again how frag bombs doesnt count as explosives is really a stupid oversight

[hardy coral]

Frag bomb is better than the dynamite bundle anyway. It's worth the extra money.

[azure elm]

So why complain about bulwark?

[hardy coral]

The fact is also doesn't randomly not kill is a great bonus.

[hardy coral]

They don't explode, they fragment.

[dull mason]

I think you are exaggerating the impact that bulwark has

[vital fractal]

They do explode, causing fragmentation as well

[hardy coral]

The force of the explosion simply sends out all the little pieces.

[brisk timber]

hehe yea but how do they fragment, by magic? or by an explosion? 😄

[hardy coral]

Dynamite is just an explosion.

[vital fractal]

Frag grenades historically have concussion effects and fragmentation effects

[hardy coral]

I think you're downplaying it.

[vital fractal]

So bulwark should still affect it

[dull mason]

It's a great perk when looking at the cost, no doubt, but it won't even make much difference in most fights

[hardy coral]

It will make a gigantic difference in a few fights.

[vital fractal]

From a gameplay stance fragmentation = some bleed, explosion = base damage

That makes sense

[azure elm]

If you have a frag, bulwark doesn’t matter. Wasted two perk points to get smacked by a frag.

[hardy coral]

And this effect is completely passive and cannot be reacted to. It's unfun.

[azure elm]

Take a toolbox and hope you get a frag.

[vital fractal]

Tool boxes are underrated if you’re a rat

Unlimited death traps are lovely

[dull mason]

Why take bulwark and run away from explosives when you can take dauntless and run at them 🧠

[azure elm]

Bulwark and dauntless is an amazing combo.

[brisk timber]

i think in those trying times instead of argue so much and fight against each other
we should come together and adress the real problem
The elephant in the room

Flashes are still annoying, have no counterplay and are OP as fuck.

[hardy coral]

Dauntless is a much better designed perk.

[vital fractal]

Based

[azure elm]

They’re kinda designed hand in hand.

[hardy coral]

You need to take a risk to use it and it can be countered by air bursting it

[hardy coral]

Hardly, if you're going for a duantless you're too close to be saved by bulwark.

[azure elm]

Didn’t get to the dynamite fast enough to defuse? Hopefully you can get away and live with a few health.

[azure elm]

Once again, be accurate with your throws, and you can still kill someone with bulwark.

Doesn’t seem so op.

[vital fractal]

Tbf bulwark doesn’t save you from a dynamite stick that is 2 m from you if you fail a Dauntless

[azure elm]

That’s what I’m saying!

[hardy coral]

This really is a tertiary point to it hard countering the bomb lance stock harpoon and the explosive crossbow.

[azure elm]

He seems to be whining about it cuz he can’t get kills with dynamite and blames bulwark instead of his inaccurate throws. And lack of frags.

[hardy coral]

And you turn to this, blocked.

[vital fractal]

I think it’s fine it counters both of those directly

[azure elm]

😢

[vital fractal]

Especially now that steel ball exists

[azure elm]

Yeah harpoon I hardly ever see.

[vital fractal]

You want to pvp with bomb lance? DB or SB

[hardy coral]

Oh so it's fine that the regular bolt is garbage in PVP?

Why is it fine that one shot weapons (designed around it) can just randomly fail to do so?

[vital fractal]

Yes,

Unlike explosive ammo which is garbage everywhere

[hardy coral]

[vital fractal]

It makes up for being amazing PvE, especially vía bosses

[hardy coral]

It's really not, only good vs assasin.

You still have the lance, you can get all bosses to rage with your stamina anyway.

[azure elm]

And the meatheads and butcher.

[vital fractal]

What

Spider, Butcher, Scrap are shredded by it and so is rotty

[hardy coral]

Just hit them with the lance.

Save on sound and taking trash ammo.

[azure elm]

Then why take harpoons in the first place?

You can just smack them with the lance.

[hardy coral]

You can get all bosses to rage too with throwing axes and any other melee too. They aren't difficult nor need accelerants.

"Nitro is good vs bosses so it should deal like 70 damage vs players."

[frail dust]

I agree with you 100% but I think you got the wrong idea though about one thing. With the melee pistol combo, you're not adding a melee weapon in the tool slot. You know how when you equip a pistol, there's another box next to that pistol where you can equip a second one, imagine that you can choose to equip a second pistol in that second box or equip a melee weapon in that box. Also if there was a new trait that makes melee and pistol possible, in order to equip the axe or the hammer you'd need quartermaster along with this proposed trait. So it's not like you can just equip any melee weapon in the slot.

[vital fractal]

Time is of the essence, BL literally slashes it down to single actions

[hardy coral]

And because saving a few seconds vs all but the assassin makes it fine to demote the bolt to garbage tier in PVP.

[vital fractal]

This is a strawman,

The Bomblance is not garbage as a weapon pvp due to its inherent strength as a melee- it’s ammo is also adjustable to cover both pvp and PvE

[azure elm]

Everything has its place. Not everything will be good in pvp. If you bring something that isn’t designed for pvp and then don’t get a kill with it, don’t be surprised.

[hardy coral]

Melee is universally bad in PVP on PC.

[vital fractal]

That’s PC

[azure elm]

Lol

[hardy coral]

The game balance being stifled by console is a shame when there isn't and obviously never can be crossplay.

[azure elm]

Melee is nice for me. I rock the BL all the time.

[hardy coral]

idk why they don't just balance the two slightly differently.

[frail dust]

Just because it's bad doesn't mean you can't do it and have fun with it

Also there are no bad weapons, only bad players

[azure elm]

Oof

[hardy coral]

[frail dust]

You can kill anything with any weapon

[vital fractal]

This is false, explosive Springfield compact

Or other explosive ammo

(Other than BL and Bow)

[hardy coral]

So certain guns and ammo types being garbage is fine because they can technically still kill?

[azure elm]

Explosive ammo isn’t really directly for PvP tho.

[hardy coral]

So balance in games doesn't matter.

Okay.

[vital fractal]

It’s not for anything, that’s my problem with it

[vital fractal]

Again strawman bro

[hardy coral]

Literally what he's implying.

[azure elm]

The game is pvpve. Not everything is garbage just because you can’t use it against players as reliably as others.

[vital fractal]

Explosive ammo fails in PvE and pvp, hence it is garbage

[azure elm]

I’m not gonna argue with explosive ammo being garbage, but I don’t think it’s supposed to be super powerful on purpose. Otherwise you’d just get blown up from 80 meters away every game by every hunter.

[crystal plume]

I mean it was more viable but was mainly nerfed due to complaints from the console side

[vital fractal]

Not saying it needs that, it needs to be more relevant

[vital fractal]

Read through it, you were right he’s way wrong lmao

[frail dust]

I wasn't implying that. There are definitely weapons and guns that are either underpowered or overpowered. If a gun is doing like 10 damage then yeah I can see why you'd wanna change that. I'd say as long as it does like 50-75 and up than it isn't Underpowered. As for ammo types, I can't say either way, there's a lot of them and I was mainly just talking about the guns

[vital fractal]

Again as I said, if they remove it from uppercut- we would be worlds better

Although it doesn’t need to be since there are other ways to balance it

[frail dust]

I should have been more clear and specified more-so what I was talking about

[hardy coral]

Regular bomb lance bolts are just bad since their point is they one tap players (at any range) if you stick them but bulwark prevents this.

Why? Because it just does.

Otherwise they'd just be a meh ammo type since they're bad in close range anyway due to their inherent innacuracy and delayed kill.

[vital fractal]

But they one tap all normal ai, 4 tap all bosses or less, and are ridiculously effective in melee range….

[frail dust]

I don't know enough about all of the ammo variants on all of the guns to say whether or not one is good or one is bad

[hardy coral]

The bomb lance isn't a bad weapon but the regular bolts aren't worth taking.

[vital fractal]

No ammo should provide superior results against players and ai

[hardy coral]

And the bomb lance bolts don't do that in comparison to the rest of its ammo. Steel balls are an instant, and silent, kill.

[vital fractal]

This is where I disagree about the ammo choice, ESPECIALLY now that double slot ammo is available to BL

[vital fractal]

PvP wise

Not PvE wise

With bomb lance you have the option to PvE and PvP with just the ammo alone

[hardy coral]

Bomb lance bolts already one shot and they're not OP, they're just not worth using because they randomly fail to one shot (rather consistently) because of a trait you can't tell anyone has.

Why should it be a dice roll (one which is completely out of your control in this case) if you one shot someone with your one shot ammo?

Should hornskin reduce slug damage?

[vital fractal]

Your issue here is that BL bombs aren’t always viable in pvp

But it isn’t meant for pvp

It’s clearly not a PvP ammo

That’s like arguing Dum Dum should do more damage PvE

It’s not meant for that

[hardy coral]

It does the same damage in PvE now afaict, they changed it.

[vital fractal]

Yes, the same as base ammo

It’s a PvP substitute for it

[frail dust]

Just checking right now to see if things are all clear behind any possible confusion with the things I said. I wasn't trying to say that ALL items in the game are justified. I was simply talking about the majority of the guns and melee. I was not talking about any of the tools, consumables, and/or ammo types, I don't know enough about the specifics behind every item to determine so

Just didn't want you guys to get the wrong impression or wrong idea

I apologize if I caused any confusion and if my lack of specification was triggering at all

[feral oriole]

Anyone else think this is one of the worst events in the history of the game progression-wise? The money grubbing is real this time around

[hardy coral]

The progression is fine. The last two events where the majority of event points are in the challenges is better than havinvg to collect a crap load of pickups and pay for limited boosts.

This one has been the least greedy by far arguably.

[feral oriole]

Here’s my issue

-can’t play the game for 2-3 weeks of the event
-because you can’t play, and the only way to progress is through challenges or paying out of pocket your only option is to pay out of pocket
I would like it if challenges were an option, a faster option obviously, over collecting consumables, but they’re arguably just as repetitive and grindy as collecting objects on the map. And it’s not like challenges and collectibles were the ONLY options in past events, you could get through the event just fine by killing hunters, killing bosses and getting collectibles along the way. But that’s not the case with this event, if you can’t play as often as is possible to unlock the event progression then it’s nearly impossible without paying. That’s my issue.

[hardy coral]

I do believe the share of each needs tweaked and that the premium pass is cheaper but doesn't give any bonuses to earnings.

[unborn smelt]

the point of tying more posint to completing challenges is that someone with less time should be able to complete more of the event.

[hardy coral]

Well as long as they play each week.

[feral oriole]

Also the increased chance of night map sucks, don’t know why they keep pushing it

[unborn smelt]

well yeah

[hardy coral]

But if they don't need to play more, which is why it should be better balanced out.

That even basically all the points are in the challenges, picking up the shrines is basically pointless.

[unborn smelt]

An event is commonly a tool to drive active player numbers up

[feral oriole]

That’s my issue, if you can’t play each week then you have to pay. You can’t get points reliably in other ways like killing hunters/collectibles/bosses you only have two options and that sucks. And it’s not like challenges are any more “fun” than collectibles. Both suck

[unborn smelt]

that'S kind of the point

[hardy coral]

Well if you miss the start it seems less worth it so you may just choose to play after.

[feral oriole]

I understand that, it’s just obvious what they’re trying to push

[hardy coral]

Well it's obvious that they want you to pay a little. It's not exploitative, just poorly thought out.

[unborn smelt]

I don't quite get how that's diffrent from getting the points by grinding collectibles ?
You also missed a lot of progression if you couldn't play for a few weeks in past events

which was kinda hard to catch up with later.

the only diffrence was that for a long time you couldn't buy the rest - but instead were just out of luck and not getting what you missed

[hardy coral]

The current situation is better, it could just use improvements.

Remember the requilaries

[unborn smelt]

yes - there could be improovements

one just has to keep in mind the companies interests too, so there kind of needs to be a draw for players to play much more than they otherwise would

[hardy coral]

The interactivity of the snakes should be brought back. There needs to be a more balanced share vs in game earnings and challenges. The challenges could also do with having a couple of specific ones per event.

[hardy coral]

They kinda gave up on that when they merged the queues tbh.

Swear that hit player numbers with people just don't enjoy the rain.

[unborn smelt]

I can undertand that this feels bad if you lack time - i have had that issue myself after changing my job

[hardy coral]

Nor being forced into night or serpent moon.

[feral oriole]

Bro you could still grind it out in a week even if you missed an event, now if you miss the weekly challenge you HAVE NO OPTION I don’t see how you can’t see my point lol

[hardy coral]

You couldn't really grind it out that fast, especially not without a paid boost.

[feral oriole]

I understand that they want more money and that’s the point of the event, Im just saying it’s more annoying and worse for it

[feral oriole]

I’ve literally done it before and streamers have done whole events in a day so you’re just wrong on that point

[unborn smelt]

I, and as by feedback here many other players, absolutely weren't able to catch up a period as long as 2-3 weeks as you wrote earlier

[feral oriole]

Like obviously I’m not saying I could do it in a day.

[unborn smelt]

yes some really old events were like that

[feral oriole]

I’m saying that many players could do it in that time period, including me.

[unborn smelt]

but then again they were only active for 1-2 weeks

[feral oriole]

Serpent’s moon and the devil’s moon event were like that, challenges weren’t the only option

[unborn smelt]

yes they weren't the only option

but they also we'rent an option to just progress comparably really fast either as they are right now

I would agree that a better mix op progression through challenges and collectibles should the the goal tho

[feral oriole]

That’s exactly what I’m saying, the options have been very limited this time around

[unborn smelt]

I still don't see how the challenges are the issue then tho

[feral oriole]

They aren’t an issue

My issue isn’t with the challenges, it’s the fact that the challenges are the only option

Besides paying

[unborn smelt]

I mean there are other options, altho they are admittedly really slow.

But i don#t see the diffrence if you can't play for 2-3 weeks (as you said above) you lack point progression for that time. It doesn't matter like it if you could have done challenges or collect clues in that time, when you come back it doesn't really matter either. you should have new weekly challenges when you come back with which to resume gathering points.

that's the part i don't get

it's not like you can't get those points anymore - you can just keep going with the current weekly challenges to resume your point gain

[feral oriole]

I don’t lack point progression, I’m level 30 in the event. Though as far as I’m concerned if you’re level 40 or even level 45 by the time the event ends you had 0 chance to complete it if you completed the last possible week of challenges because progression is incredibly slow without challenges

I’m not even bothered by the fact that there’s only 1 option, I’m bothered by the fact that that option is the most limiting option possible

[unborn smelt]

So you dislike the challenge system to earn points because you don't want to run the stuff challenges make you use ?

That's smth i can fully understand

[feral oriole]

Nope because it’s limited by time, although the limiting factor on gameplay is also annoying, especially on increased chance night maps. I’m saying that even if you only have a week left there’s no way you can complete the event if you’re not done with the event after you’ve completed the challenges. Maybe if the challenges were daily then it would be very possible. But if you completed all the challenges and you’re not done with the event in the final week then you’re screwed

[unborn smelt]

well - depends on how much you still got to finish.

you can grind a level or two without challenges - but it's a real grind

but yeah i kinda get what you mean now

if you got smth like 5 levels left it's incredibly unlikely you will finish if you got no weekly left

[brisk timber]

I think in general its a good thing that the event progression this time was tied to the challenges.
It gave the event a natural pacing and every week people could unlock new stuff.
In contrast the last Events many people speed ran it and it felt like the event was over after a week.

But youre right that the current event form definitely could use some boosts the closer it comes to an end so that people that are maybe late or new to the game have a chance to keep up.
As i know crytek they probably do some event point multiplier on the weekends but i dont know if this would be enough.

[unborn smelt]

The twitch drops they had were a tool to allow people to gain some event progression in another way

IIRC it was up to 10x 750 Event point drops plus some extra goodies one could get

[brisk timber]

Yea i know but i feel like there should still be some worthwhile form to earn points as the events coming to an end with just playing.
Sitting hours on end in stream is ...meh

[pliant wren]

Get the twitch app on your phone, turn the sound almost off, put the streams on while it's charging when you go to bed. Easy rewards and you don't have to just sit there when you could be doing other things.

[brisk timber]

Thats not an elegant fix at all

Nobody should be do this to get some event completed

Man i couldnt care less. Im playin regularly and already done last week + bonus charm

But a player that is late to the party or is new should be able to do the event by playing and not doin some dumb stuff outside the game

[azure elm]

Only 5,200 or so event points. Just over 5 tiers.

[pliant wren]

5 out of 50 is 10%. That's not bad, considering that without the battle pass the weekly objectives got you 6k, so that's almost a weeks worth of objectives.

[azure elm]

Oh yeah, I think it was great. I finished the pass like day two of the drops.

Done with the bonus as well. Really hoping they bring back the extra event points=hunt dollars cuz this time I actually have a good chunk.

[pliant wren]

Yeah, I got done like 3 days after the Twitch thing ended.

[azure elm]

And I’m still loving the event.

The rain is lovely.

[pliant wren]

I agree. Love the rain, and serpent night isn't bad, but I could do with never seeing fog again.

[azure elm]

Haha, I really just am indifferent to night. Too many players reacting and creating stalemates. But I do like serpent moon condition.

[pliant wren]

I stopped using Instinct about half way through cause I knew I'd like it too much and hate playing without it if I didn't. Really going to miss Shadow though. I'd love if we got some kind of constant faction thing going even between events.

[azure elm]

Yeah that would be cool. Rotations of factions or perks. I like that idea.

I think instinct should stay. Maybe lower the range or something but I love it.

[pliant wren]

It is really nice, but at the same time, I feel like it encourages stalemates. (Trigger it on someone who has it too, you both freeze and start creeping around) I'd actually say up the range to about 120 meters so the information it gives is less precise and you're more likely to be far enough away that you don't feel the need to start creeping.

[dense sapphire]

@lethal granite Suppressed Romero
There isn't much value to a silenced shotgun. The entire point of a silencer is to be able to shoot without revealing your position, but shotguns are only effective at close range where you will not only hear the player themselves but also hear the silenced gun itself (silenced guns are audible within about 40-50m).

[lethal granite]

EXACTLY

It’s not an op or unbalanced addition, it would be for one (possible) sneak attack before requiring you to fill engage. Like a melee with extra range.

[pliant wren]

Suppressed shotgun in this time period only really makes sense if the suppressor is destroyed by the first shot.

[azure elm]

You make a good point. Maybe making it a larger radius would decrease stalemates. Luckily I don’t have that issue too much but it happens. Most of the time I feel like we both are cautious but still moving and looking to engage.

[dense sapphire]

Uh, it wouldnt be sneaky though?

That's the problem

[lethal granite]

No no

It can be

It mostly is for the added utility you get

[dense sapphire]

I mean, you can use it against ai, and sure other teams wouldn't hear you

[lethal granite]

That’s what I was mostly going for

[dense sapphire]

ok

Use a crossbow?

That's pretty much what you're asking for right?

[lethal granite]

No?

Suppressed nagant pistol. Why not just use a hand crossbow instead?

[dense sapphire]

Because its a pistol

[lethal granite]

It has a reason to exist

Yeah

And the silenced Romero would be a shotgun

[dense sapphire]

Romero and crossbow have similar effective ranges

They're both single shot

[lethal granite]

A suppressed sparks doesn’t really make sense, nor does a automatic mosin nagant

[dense sapphire]

hand crossbow fills a different roll than silenced nagant

Romero and crossy have significant overlap

[lethal granite]

There’s a large group of people who don’t like crossbows and would rather run a shotgun. The silenced Romero adds to the utility the shotgun already has, being able to switch ammo types and all that. The main purpose of this gun is to add some variety and utility

[sage violet]

how do u make a lfg post?

[pliant wren]

Avtomat may not be based on a Nagant, but it is based on a real rifle of the period. And the Sparks shoots a bullet that doesn't ricochet down the barrel as it comes out. Suppressors are made by beveled sections with a hole in the center catching the gasses that are trapped behind the bullet. Any shotgun round except a slug would catch on those bevels and rip the entire suppressor apart.

[lethal granite]

Realistically, the silenced part isn’t super duper realistic, but the idea that the bayou has a mass supply of silenced lever guns, pistols, and rifles doesn’t really either. I feel that the suppressed part doesn’t break the realism very hard.

[lethal granite]

I’m not saying it’s the most realistic thing ever, but compared to the other guns and weapons it isn’t to far out that it would seem like “Oh this could’ve never happened.” Admittedly, you do bring a fair point with the bevels, but I don’t think this would break the realism that hunt has to it.

[late quartz]

I understood what you were suggesting.

I just meant separately, a perk that let's you equip these melee weapons in a tool slot would be welcome imo

[dense sapphire]

I think functionally a silenced romero is way too similar to the crossbow to warrant existing. That's my opinion at least.

[pliant wren]

Possible compromise: Wadcutter shells. These shells have half the powder load of a normal shell reducing the range, but greatly reducing the noise as well.

[lethal granite]

And that’s fair. I disagree, but just to ask, how would you feel if the shotgun (instead of a Romero) was a specter?

[dense sapphire]

Would be more interesting

[lethal granite]

Not a bad idea, and it could definitely find use in a shotgun like the Romero that can swap ammo types

[pliant wren]

Wadcutters are traditionally sold as a cheap alternative to normal rounds as well, so maybe being able to hold more shells than normal would make sense too.

[dense sapphire]

Don't know if I necessarily want it, but it would be more unique and I'd support it more than a silenced romero

[lethal granite]

I was worried when posting it that people would see “silenced” and “shotgun” and immediately dislike it because of the hatred many have for shotguns. So I figured a single shot shotgun would be a fair balance, but I didn’t think of the overlap between it and the crossbow. I think the specter could bring more uniqueness to the table

[lethal granite]

And them being at around the cost of penny shot. Maybe even down to 3. It’s debatable

[unkempt hill]

Does anyone know if the plan is to remove rain after the event?

[trail oasis]

Probly there to stay

[unkempt hill]

That's unfortunate

[rotund obsidian]

It'll likely be reduced in frequency, and possibly separated into another contract at some point

[hollow raft]

When someone asks for replacement postfx settings like we've always asked for so we don't have to use reshade to achieve better HDR or colorblind options
and the community doesn't read and downvotes

[crystal plume]

"game is dull and gray"

https://tenor.com/view/yes-chad-gif-18386674

||Although it's not actually even that dull or gray, there's color where it matters||

[hollow raft]

He may have said it very crassly, but it doesn't seem wrong

I wouldn't also say "dull and gray" but the content of the suggestion is what mattered

[crystal plume]

I'm gonna guess that sharpening is on the list if at least FSR is on the list for cryengine 5.11 which Hunt is gettning updated to, as well as HDR

[hollow raft]

What is your take on overlay crosshairs? @crystal plume

[crystal plume]

Other than that when it comes to "post fx" type of settings, I personally wish that we don't get vibrancy options that encourage people to turn their games into cheery fantasylands 😄

[crystal plume]

Not as significant as some people make it sound like but at the same time cringe to use

[hollow raft]

Yes, for what I understand, that was excessive, and achieved through overlaying multiple of the "technicolor" module in reshade

[crystal plume]

Well with Tarkov's post fx settings you can make the game look like this, which I hope won't happen for Hunt

[hollow raft]

From what I can tell, it doesn't seem like a major issue agreed, but I do hope there is a deterrent for it
Not sure why guns would shoot straight without sights aligned, which is why I find some using crosshairs to advantage that

Would it hurt Hunt to make guns not shoot straight until irons were visually alligned?

[crystal plume]

@keen creek Please report bugs in #bug-reports-pc rather than the feedback channel

[unborn smelt]

I'm fairly certain it was more points - I claimed 6x 750 points and i for sure missed 3x 750 points which i failed to claim in time because i fell asleep accidentally

[hot vigil]

Naw bigshivv is right, it was about 5k points :)

[unborn dagger]

Load times will be big. I just wonder if that will apply to last gen systems because if not that ps5 and xsx is gonna be disappointing

[unborn smelt]

Are you sure ? I could swear it was more. I was very certain i missed 3x750 pts and i have 6x750 claimed

Sadly with the campaign ended i can't double check anymore in my Twitch inventory

[crystal plume]

You can still see all drops you have claimed in your twitch inventory

Or wait you mean that you can't check that you missed 3

Nvm

[unborn smelt]

I managed to find it - and i have to correct myself

you're right it was 7x 750 points

750 points per day of viewing

now i'm just confused how it showed me having missed 3 drops but it shows 6 calimed

[unborn smelt]

You were right - i could find the info, it was 7x 750 points so indeed 5250 points total

my bad

[hot vigil]

Yeah it is still 1/10th of the whole pass

[unborn smelt]

yeah it is. But that'S absolutely fine

it should help when you can't play by allowing you to progress ~5 levels

but it's not so much that you dont have to play a lot

which is kinda the point of an event - to drive playernumbers

[willow gulch]

can you make Ewe's Horn cost less then 15k before event is over

[dull mason]

Wouldn't that defeat it's purpose of being a small bonus for those that played throughout the entire event?

[brisk timber]

Well said. Thats exactly what it is.
Its a little bonus for dedicated players.

[willow gulch]

well it definitly rewards people who have time to play this game and good players who can earn lots of points in game for little time they invest but what about people who are not that good its grindy hell for them. i buyed battle pass and finished it but it was disappointment to see 15 normal levels for a price of one this close to end of event.

[dull mason]

I would say that you don't have to be good at the game to get your weekly missions done which is all you'd really need. But the charm isn't meant to be part of the battle pass it's supposed to be incentive for those who finish early

It's the same reason that most of the battle pass exp comes from weekly missions, stagger progression to keep players invested throughout rather than grind for items and either burn out or get bored

[open carbon]

Yeah and people who say they don't have the time aren't dedicated enough. Here's a secret barely anyone knows: You're in control of how much time you make for things

[flat sandal]

When is it over? Cant play atm but i dont think i have the thing yet. Last time ppl were unhappy because there was nothing after finishing, this time they'll be unhappy as well. Tbh that was entirely predictable.

[opaque glen]

@cinder ferry I couldn't agree more, I'm tired of FOMO and time-limited cosmetics. Really hope to see this change.

[flat sandal]

If the next event isnt in the making yet. Why not come up with something entirely different, something that doesn't follow this old battle pass style blueprint. That stuff wont last forever and i think it's actually over already. For sure is boring and kinda predatory

[opaque glen]

is DLSS planned?

[flat sandal]

@cinder ferry I think unfortunately fomo does work. the question is if we'll ever learn but since there is a constant influx of naive gamers that seems unlikely. It really is pretty sad that it is applied so willy nilly, it's a bad thing and those breed more bad things. We live in a society ppl 😄 aren't there any win win psychological phenomena we can leverage? Really? Or are we just actually evil? I'm being dramatic but for real though

[opaque glen]

I agree that it does work, but it just feels anti-consumer. Why bar a large percentage of your playerbase from every getting awesome content if they miss an event?

[flat sandal]

Yup, the actual bad thing though is that you make ppl play for the wrong reasons and kinda trap them. Like, just create a fun and engaging experience ^^

[unborn dagger]

Nah that's too hard for devs these days, that's why they rely on it.

[flat sandal]

Wish we could punish that but we are being treated like what we are. Sheep.

Man I'm in that kind of mood again^^

[unborn dagger]

It's why COD gets away with it.

[flat sandal]

In my mind hunt is a game for big boys. Hope they'll turn it around and be forever known as the guys who cracked the code. It'd be hell of a pr boost.

[dull mason]

It's not used to bar players from content, it's used to convince them to play

[flat sandal]

Persuade

[dull mason]

Semantics

[opaque glen]

Regardless of intentions, it bars players who miss the event from ever getting the content. (Hence the name, limited-time.)

[dull mason]

My point is that it's not meant as sticks for those who don't play the game during events, it's used as carrots for those who do play.

[opaque glen]

Nice profile picture by the way, love Grinch's Ultimatum.

[dull mason]

Ty:)

[opaque glen]

:)

[flat sandal]

A carrot isn't fearsome 😉

[opaque glen]

My point is that regardless of intentions ("meant as"), this is what it's doing. You're also right, it's also used to incentivize players to grind during an event, but this is the outcome.

The outcome is that players who miss the event never get the content, which is my point.

[dull mason]

I mean you're absolutely right that fomo is being used here. I get the sense that you fellas dislike fomo as a marketing tactic, but I personally don't view it that negatively

[opaque glen]

It's not just about FOMO, I just dislike the premise of making awesome content for a game that's limited-time, and won't come back.

[dull mason]

Twitch drops also utilize FOMO, I didn't participate in this past drop because I don't much care for charms, the one with kill buyer however, I made damn sure to watch my hours

[flat sandal]

It more sales then marketing and dodgy at that imo

[dull mason]

I don't understand the 'awesome content' that you're talking about, do you mean weapon/hunter skins?

[opaque glen]

I also dislike how the Inferno event isn't here, either. They made an awesome variant, and now you can't play it anymore. I'd like it if they made a seperate contract for limited time modes, too.

That's a part of it, yes.

(I'm also a little salty that I can't get the Plague Doctor.)

[flat sandal]

Inferno was awesome. How is it not painful for the devs to shelf it? It'll come back i'm guessing

[dull mason]

Yeah I hope they bring inferno back at least as a wildcard

And I think they will tbh

[flat sandal]

It should just drop really really rarely in the meantime

Imagine the surprise for people who dont know it^^

Games need shit like that for some magic and legends

[opaque glen]

I think a separate contract for players who want to play it would be nice, that way people who want to avoid it can go their own way.

What do you think about that?

[flat sandal]

These things would be nice but splitting contracts is tricky still it seems

[opaque glen]

The general premise I disagree with is limited-time content, especially as it relates to events, content, and cosmetics. (Especially knowing it won't ever come back.)

I'd love to see battle passes not be limited-time. Would be cool to grind out previous battle Passes. DRG does a decent job of this, by adding the loot in the battle pass to the base game after the event ends.

[flat sandal]

Yeah, stuff should be limited SOT style

[opaque glen]

SOT?

[flat sandal]

Sea of thieves

It's not perfect but a better approach devs should build on rather then this. I want the plague doctor as well:D

Twitch drops are kinda bs as well.

[opaque glen]

For sure. I don't mind them as much since the quality of the skins isn't as good to begin with, and there's talk of them coming back, but it still rubs me the wrong way.

[flat sandal]

Yeah, what's next. Are we making kids gamble? No surely we arent THAT bad 😉

Problem is this gambling stuff makes this look normal

[fervent spindle]

it is not better, to say steam where down. all other games works

[sharp veldt]

All I can say is the truth, whether you want to believe it or not.

[queen jungle]

at least it uninstalls quickly i guess

[obsidian narwhal]

They were experimenting with the wildcard system before the start of the event and while the inferno didn't really fit the current event's theme I'm convinced it'll come back eventually

Also I wanna be perfectly clear, this is my personal opinion and I do not know what Crytek is planning to do

[dull mason]

Yeah, doesn't make sense for them to put so much effort into a whole map effect like that only to use it for a one-time event

would be a waste of time and money tbh

[obsidian narwhal]

Yeah

Especially since it was widely regarded as the best thing since sliced bread

Note that night has been replaced with serpent night for now so there's hope !

[unborn dagger]

Gonna be real disappointed if they don't bring back regular night. At the very least try to combine it with each other as a dynamic weather event.

[cinder ferry]

FOMO does not work when the market is oversaturated, also the only gain you get from it builds resentment over time costing money in the long run. It's literally a LOSE LOSE for everyone

[cinder ferry]

yeah it would be great to get the devs opinions on it because they are costing themselves money and player satisfaction with the game.

[opaque glen]

I agree. While it may work well in the short term (FOMO causing players to buy the battle pass, such as myself) it doesn't work in the long term, as players who might have purchased content wouldn't be able to (because the event ends, and the content is limited time.)

Additionally, you're right about player satisfaction. Players generally regard the removal of limited time cosmetics and events as positive.

The only players who would feel dissatisfied would be those who give into FOMO to begin with, feeling they had a false promise of obtaining a rare item, now made widely available.

[cinder ferry]

it doesn't lead to an increase in sales in the short term though the P value is not significant. It's not stocks, it's time and people do nothave unlimited time across all games. @opaque glen

[opaque glen]

That's true, but some people buy the battle pass out of FOMO, regardless of whether they take the time to complete it or not.

I do agree with what you said about oversaturation, though. Limited-time events are widespread, and players only have so much time.

[cinder ferry]

There is not research to suggest that those people would not already buy it regardless. but there is research showing satisfaction in company and not feeling cheated leading to more spending at company

[opaque glen]

What research are you referring to?

[cinder ferry]

Literally any consumer satisfaction spending study over the last 50 years.

[opaque glen]

I'm curious about what sources you're using since they seem to be the baseline of your argument. Would you mind sharing one?

[cinder ferry]

The Effect of Customer Satisfaction on Consumer Spending Growth
February 2010Journal of Marketing Research 47(1):28-35
DOI:10.1509/jmkr.47.1.28
Claes Fornell
University of Michigan
Roland T. Rust
Marnik G. Dekimpe
KU Leuven

LITERALLY ANY STUDY of the same topic OVER THE PAST 50 years shows the exact same thing

[opaque glen]

This study seems to show that consumer satisfaction affects long term spending, however it doesn't suggest that it affects short term spending, as I said. Additionally, despite the fact that I'm dissatisfied with the current limited-time events and cosmetics, I'm generally satisfied with the game, and have spent considerable money on DLCs that are separate from the battle pass.

[cinder ferry]

didn't say it did, but you can reread what i said

[opaque glen]

What are your thoughts on this? It seems to me that your general argument is that dissatisfied consumers won't spend as much money on the game, but dissatisfaction is determined by a multitude of things, not just one factor that's part of a large game.

I looked up the source, this is what the source said.

[trail oasis]

Theres very few way to monetise the game outside events tbh. Peoples buy the skin they want but weapons and tools no one care. Unless theres a way to help em get more money i think events is the best thing

[opaque glen]

Although I'm just getting into semantics at this point. I generally disagree with limited-time cosmetics, and dislike them.

[cinder ferry]

not a whole lot of understanding happening right now.

[opaque glen]

I apologize if I've misunderstood your position.

[vital fractal]

Running in blind here but I gotta say, FOMO is a horrible aspect to any game- I have basically stopped playing entire franchises despite being one of the biggest fans of said franchises due to it, the biggest being Forza Series

I view it as a predatory and manipulative tactic

I understand some limited skins to reward loyal players and add inherent status to some items however it should not become a super common theme in hunt imo (I’m looking at you Scrapbeak Concertina Skin 👁👁)

[karmic ivy]

The thing is, you can just choose to not fear mising out... and still play the games. I don't see why its an issue.

[vital fractal]

In cases like Forza it’s because you literally lose out on content + a few other issues

In hunt’s case, the most you miss out on is a skin of in game content

As such FOMO isn’t that bad of an issue currently, but as always- an issue can always grow and I would hate to see it do such a thing in any franchise especially this one- though the tactic is still what I consider predatory and manipulative

Though, one can argue skins with Headsman’s level of camouflage which may be a benefit in game being locked away forever is an example of FOMO affecting hunt in a more direct manner

[brisk timber]

The worst thing is players defending those FOMO limitation of naturally unlimited digital content to show off or smth idk.
I couldnt care less if people could get all those skins at a later time. Good for them.

Put some premium pricetag on it and it would still be beneficial to get them cheaper during an ongoing event.

[open carbon]

Counterpoint: Not everything has to be a participation medal, meaning not everyone should be rewarded just for being there. I get why some people want some way of standing out for being more dedicated than others. FOMO sucks though, no argument there.

There should be skins that you can only earn through investing time into the game, not just money. In fact, I think some stuff should not be made available to people who only throw money at the game without spending much time on it

[hot vigil]

Honestly just make it that battlepasses don't ends after events.
The upside of playing the battlepass during the event is that you get pact-bound hunters/signee trait and event boost weeks and twitch drops.

And ofc let us re-buy old battlepasses.

With same drawbacks.

[open carbon]

I think at least the unlockable skins should not go away after. They should still be locked behind a time investment that you cannot buy out of

[hot vigil]

Naw

Why the heck do you think we play the battlepass to begin with

[open carbon]

Correction

[hot vigil]

Aaah

Lmao

[open carbon]

One can buy levels for the battle pass anyway, maybe locking those skins behind time investments after the event is stupid. But there could still be skins exclusive to time investments

Anyway, FOMO bad

But time investments good

[hot vigil]

Again, that could be for event only thing.
So if you play a battlepass after an event you don't get:

• Hunters that increase event income.
• Access to the signee trait.
• Access to buy event levels.
• Access to totems/alters/snakes
  But you still get event points by looting hunters and killing bosses + doing weekly challenges.

[open carbon]

Aye, with how long the last events ran, they could just straight up turn them into seasons and keep the stuff you mention for the start of each season

Each season starting with the event

[hot vigil]

Eeeh, think the current system is fine

Just want to "questline'fy" the battlepass, so it doesn't prey on FOMO as hard.

[open carbon]

Yeah

I guess the rest is just semantics tbf ^^

[hot vigil]

And I think if we can do old battlepasses "off-season", it means that players have an incentive keep playing between events.

Bc most players hunt themselves out over the span of an event

So being able to say "I need a little break, I'll wrap it up in a week or two" or "Event over, guess I can go back and do some of that Scrapbeak battlepass now"

Is a huge win for everyone

[open carbon]

Defo

[little carbon]

Could be fine if some adjustments were made to the challenge rewards.
Less battle pass XP per week and having it more aligned to the end of the weekly challenge track.
This means you have to show at least somewhat of the same dedication that you had to show during the event to get the prize, especially considering it isn't that hard to complete the weeklies.

And timed exclusivity could also work really well as an addition here. If it would take a year for a battle pass to become available outside of events, then people who dedicate themselves continuously during Events will always have something to show off.

[hot vigil]

This means you have to show at least somewhat of the same dedication that you had to show during the event to get the prize, especially considering it isn't that hard to complete the weeklies.
Firstly, don't really think grinding challenges is harder/easier than grinding the events, like arguably my system is more grindy bc you don't have the extra venues of passive hunter exp, signee trait and totems and whatnot.
So don't think anything needs to be changed in that regard.
Also battlepasses have never been hard, just time consuming, so dunno if we need to enforce an elitist attitude of showing "dedication". Especially not for a product that is brought with money.
Don't think all this should be a grindfiesta unless they were free, which I'm not advocating for.

I'm advocating these changes for a win-win scenario that is pro-consumer and can net some money to crytek.

Because, while I find it silly that some people are now complaining they didn't have enough time to complete this event, which had a great leniency to it.
I do not think it is fair to punish people who comes into the game now and discovers that the cool skin they want was a thing from 4 years ago, when they didn't even knew Hunt existed.

[trail oasis]

Would be nice if they implement something like every prestige you have a token and with x amount of token and a good amount of hunt dollars like 50 or 100k depending on the legendary rarity there would be an option to just straight buy it. Would give a good incentitive for players to grind a lot and also increase player count and offer peoples the opportunity to get old legendary hunters.

Also make prestiging rewarding for once

[little jackal]

funny how people go for all that elaborate pro-consumer sugarcoating just to get plague doctor 😄

[open carbon]

I rather want the concertina skin :P

And the sticky

[little carbon]

I agree with you that there should be ways for people that joined late or didn't have time to play during an event to re-earn old skins.
But rewarding dedicated players is equally as important, because it both serves as a tool to incentivice people to play more and as a tool of consumer satisfaction.

The issue with your proposed system is that the things you remove post event are irrelevant anyways. You get pretty much all XP from the challenges, the in match gains barely matter.

With my proposed changes to how the XP is laid out on the weekly challenge track (aligned to the end, maybe the first one after 15 to 20 stars) and less in total (maybe 3 effective levels per week instead of 7), you can still very reasonably max out a battle pass outside of an event (roughly 17 weeks).

The advantages are that
a) it's not fully passive, if you just play without giving challenges a mind you won't make progress since you need to get over the 15* initial mark each week. This means that going for a battle pass completion stays an active task.

b) ideally this makes it so that the passes come in faster than you can complete old ones (if you aren't making progress during Events). This way there is always something you can grind for.

You can keep looting corpses/ extracting the bounty as a point source, cause in the end they hardly matter anyways.

And having a timed exclusivity is a good incentive for people to still play events as much as they can

[unborn dagger]

@opaque glen That's how it should be but Crytek is probably doing it this way to persuade the player to spend BBs when you're done with a set of weekly challenges.

[opaque glen]

Probably, but it's incredibly grindy and predatory, if that's the case (which it might be.)

I've been playing for the last 5 hours, and have only gained like one tier. 1000 event points, a lot of games.

[unborn dagger]

It is absolutely predatory, it screws over anyone that has a month left.

[opaque glen]

I had one game where we wiped the lobby, got both bounties, and only got 100 event points.

[unborn dagger]

Yeah you can barely get to 100. It's crappy

[opaque glen]

It basically forces you to do weeklies from the getgo, otherwise there's no hope of maxing it out.

[unborn smelt]

I mean yeah - thats kinda the point of an event ?

Drive player numbers for the duration

They could absolutely tweak it a bit so it's a bit easier to get the stuff IMO, but if it's too lenient it barely does it's job as an event - that being driving playernumbers up

I hate that Fomo became industry standard - but thats sadly how it is.

[opaque glen]

I disagree. Forcing players to complete weekly challenges (instead of earning points through natural gameplay) drastically increases the grind, and forces players out of playstyles they might not want to leave, just to progress the pass. Additionally, centering event points around weekly challenges primarily, (as opposed to natural gameplay) doesn't necessarily increase player numbers.

Regardless of whether or not it's the industry standard, that doesn't mean this game can't do things differently. Hunt's playerbase is passionate about the game, which is why we want to see it change for the better.

[unborn smelt]

It does enforce diffrent playstyles - but it doesn't necessarily increase the grind

I personally got way more done in less time just doing challenges than with gathering collectibles on the map. However i can absolutely see how it increases the feeling of a grind because it forces people to play stuff they otherwise wouldn't

[opaque glen]

It increases the grind, because there are only so many challenges per week. Once you run out, you can't really progress until the next challenges come around.

It also seems like more of a grind because you have to go out of your way to doing it, as opposed to earning points primarily through natural gameplay.

[unborn smelt]

Centering eventpoints around primarily weeklies gets people to try and return weekly throughout the duration of the event, instead of just grinding it all upfront - which i think is the point to beginn with

Not to create an initial spike of many players, but increased numbers which last longer throughout the event

[unborn smelt]

Which doesn't increase the grind tho. It just means it disincentivises grinding all at once

Instead incentivises doing the challenges regularly for the entire duration

[unborn smelt]

Yes this is smth i can absolutely agree to tho. I think thats a big factor for how people perceive it

[opaque glen]

Why not allow players to complete it at their discretion? Seems like a contrived way of keeping players coming back, to me. Isn't the player count high enough that this shouldn't be a concern? Or is this for "engagement"?

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this, by the way. Appreciate the time. And sorry for the delayed reply, I was in an intense 1v2.

[unborn smelt]

Well in the grand scheme of things the playercount isn't that high. And, since stuff like that is industry standart one has to keep in mind that many if not most other games people also play will use the same and often even worse mechanics to make people spend more time in their games. So naturally if Hunt doesn't have that draw of an event trying to keep people engaged for longer, good amounts of players will gravitate towards their other games that do have that.

Hunt by now is really old so its natural it needs some way to keep people engaged and not swapping to the new stuff that gets pushed out on the market. And its doing a really good job at it so far, seeing as it's over 5 years old and still growing, when other games at this age not just stopped growing but die altogether and got replaced with their next in line, maybe even the one after that already.

[unborn smelt]

All good - just trying to shed some light on parts that people, me in the past included, rarely think about.

Hope you aced that 1v2.

[hot vigil]

Don't want the plague doctor but nice gatekeeping :D

[unborn smelt]

I mean Plaguedoc is a much requested skin, and ofc new players that joined after the event may be sad they don't get to play it. I wouldn't mind allowing others to earn it somehow

[hot vigil]

Same

[opaque glen]

While that may be true, it seems predatory to keep players coming back not because they want to, but because they have to in order to progress in the BP. It seems to me like player satisfaction should take priority, and that players would be satisfied if they could progress at their own pace. Most of the playerbase isn't playing because of the battlepass exclusively, either, so I'm sure the player count would stay high, regardless. The event has plenty of good times, and the game is fun. I put a solid 80 hours into this event before even buying the BP (I made the naive mistake of assuming I could complete it with 2 weeks left.)

[opaque glen]

Hunt has over 5K players active almost all the time. I don't think playerbase is a big issue.

[opaque glen]

Thanks brotha, appreciate it. I clutched it unexpectedly, it was epic. And I'd really love to earn the plague doc. It's my fav skin, but I have no way of earning it rn.

[hot vigil]

Again, just make battlepasses purchasable and completable post events.
People who advocate about "muh loyalty" and "shitting on the players who earned it during the event" are just gatekeeping, if your satisfaction deprive from exclusivity earn thru coincidence, please go touch some grass.

[unborn smelt]

I know that feeling because i have had that too.

But as a company, they have the numbers and need ti find a compromise between kepping the game alive and well, thus create player interest and keeping as fair to the players as they can.

And as sad as that is, with how downright malicious some bigger companies act - its hard if not downright impossible to maximise satisfaction to players without loosing money because they are a company afterall

[opaque glen]

Look at a game like Deep Rock Galactic, the devs beloved by their community. The BP can be progressed through natural gameplay, and isn't time-limited. The playerbase is alive and well. I don't believe that tactics such as these are necessary to keep engagement or the playerbase high, although that might be a point of contention. I also believe that this generally lowers customer satisfaction, which should be a top priority, but that's just how I see things.

[hot vigil]

Video games under Danish socialism :v

[opaque glen]

They'd still make plenty of cash by doing things differently, possibly even more. It seems like they'd get more sales if BPs weren't limited-time, and if the BP was able to progress naturally, I don't see how that would lose them money?

Regardless of what the industry standard is, I think they should strive for the most virtuous decision. I understand that they have money to make, but they'll retain that with these changes.

[unborn smelt]

DRG does indeed very well - but smth i thinkbis questionable is if that system also would work in a PvP setting

Where there's bihmgger expenses for the company with higher demand for balancing being more on point, with cheating being a far bigger potential issue when PvP is on the line, not PvE, for example

[opaque glen]

I don't understand what this has to do with the changes being addressed?

[unborn smelt]

Also server costs

Hunt has dedicated servers

Which cost a lot

While DRG can avoid that by being peer to peer

[hot vigil]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Hunt have to FOMO the shit out of people.

They can make money other ways

[unborn smelt]

So as acompany the game Hunt has far higher running costs that need to be dealt with than a game like DRG

[opaque glen]

They'll still rake in plenty of greenbacks if these changes were implemented. Doesn't seem like it would affect how much money they would make, aside from increasing profits through the banishment (pun intended) of limited time cosmetics and battle passes.

[hot vigil]

Also wouldn't it be more money to make people able to buy old battlepasses?

[unborn smelt]

I'd love to believe that - but thats smth only the company itself can access as they know the running costs and the income generated

[opaque glen]

It doesn't take insider info to draw conclusions here, at least from what I can gather. If I could see some data suggesting the opposite, I might reconsider, but it seems like expanding the audience would rake in more money, to me.

[unborn smelt]

I'm absolutely in favor of adding compromises to make it better for the players

[hot vigil]

Not my responsibility as a consumer to make sure that the business runs around without exploiting and prey on people.
"The company wouldn't be able to run-" good! Rather have a dead game than an unethically ran one.

[opaque glen]

I agree, but why would it be one or the other? Like I said before, it seems like both the playercounts, profits, and player satisfaction would all increase with these changes (in theory.)

[unborn smelt]

But the players shouldn't forget that Crytek afterall is a company that needs to produce enough money to keep the game running and somehow competing with companies that are far less ethical in the meantime

[opaque glen]

Couldn't it be ethically run, and rich as well?

[unborn smelt]

Well thets a hard to answer question

[opaque glen]

Seems to me that your position defends unethical practices, in the name of competition, player engagement, and profits?

[unborn smelt]

That depends a lot on wvat one calls "ethically run" and "rich"

[opaque glen]

What I mean is that these changes could be implemented, (no more limited time BP, and natural progression in BP) while also retaining high playercounts, profits, and increasing player satisfaction. It's not like one would be lost by changing these things, in my eyes. (and I have perfect 20/20 vision :D)

[unborn smelt]

I'm not entirely happy with the development of events either, but i also get that they need to compete somehow and break even. To me minimizing exploitative behaviour is absolutely "ethically ran" which they do IMO.

Because yes they can't avoid all of the manipulative bahaviours that are industry standard by now - like FOMO, but they have avoided all the manipulative parts of lootboxes for example, they have avoided the worst manipulative methods of premium currency too (easy conversion, nice and flush prices, and were quite generous in the past and its still earnable, albeit slower, now)

[hot vigil]

Well, there are reasons why FOMO is used, it makes people spend money

[unborn smelt]

Hence i think they need to find a good compromise - between how much they can cater to the players without dropping into being financially unviable for the company

[opaque glen]

Why can't they? Additionally, it doesn't seem to me like they avoided the plague of premium currency, as there are countless cosmetic DLCs purchasable with blood bonds. ($3 being the minimum purchase, when 300 blood bonds can't get you anything, but 500 can! Oh, but wait! You can't spend $5 to get that, you need to spend $10 to get at least 500!) Additionally, the battle pass only contains 600 blood bonds if you max it out, despite costing 1000. Even Fortnite, the king of premium currency, allows you to profit vbucks by maxing the battle pass.

[unborn smelt]

Fomo generally makes people do what you want them to - drive numbers or generate money

[opaque glen]

I agree, they should find a compromise. Profits are important, but they should do what they can to increase player satisfaction. In my opinion, removing limited time cosmetics is a nice way of doing this.

[opaque glen]

While FOMO might drive players to spend money, that's a short term gain. Making the BP non limited-time would expand it's audience, allowing for more long-term gains.

[unborn smelt]

Hece Fomo being used everywhere even outside games

[unborn smelt]

On a personal level - I 100% agree

But i also doubt they can still hold up financially if they avoid everything players deem "predator" (very important to mention here too - a tonn of players, propably the majority, don't care about even worse predatory mechanics - otherwise those wouldn't generate as much money)

Not knowing the financial situation i thus have to trust the company and my own judgement of people

And well - seeing how popular and efffective the manipulative big companoes are with even worse and on the nose mechanics, i don't trust people to withstand the manipulation of the competition even for a good cause.

[opaque glen]

I agree, predatory tactics can be beneficial for a company, but they're still anti-consumer. I just don't see why the devs can't make some compromises, it seems to me like they'd still make plenty of dough by implementing the changes I've proposed, and I haven't heard enough to change my mind.

It just seems to me like banishing limited-time cosmetics is a win-win, with players getting sweet skins, and devs getting more money.

[unborn smelt]

If it's actually feasible i'd love for the most ethical approach to succeed - but my feelings tell me it'll likely not and we have to make due with that or settle for the most ethically, yet still financially viable approach (which i think hunt does)

[opaque glen]

You think Hunt does this? You previously said that you disagreed with some of these decisions, and that you thought they were predatory/unethical, which led to a defense of this line of behavior, in the name of profits/player engagement. (Or am I misunderstanding?)

Or do you think they already strike a balance?

[unborn smelt]

The devs made quite some compromises - they made BB very fair, they kept all the actually predatory parts out of the Mr Chairy lootbox, they kept out or remooved all P2W (if one could deem the respec P2W) and they offer all new gameplay related stuff for free and do monetisation only with cosmetics.

[unborn smelt]

Yes they do - i'd love for them to min max more in terms of pro consumer choices, but overall they are already very fair compared to so many others

Not saying they can't improove, or at least try

[opaque glen]

They removed BB from natural gameplay, not sure how that's a compromise, although I think it's alright, as it's a premium currency. Additionally, prices for BBs are wack, as I said in the post I'm replying to. There might not be lootboxes, but one might argue there is still pay to win, as premium cosmetics offer camouflage.

I guess I just don't see a lack of worse options as a virtue. If I kicked a dog, would that be okay, because I didn't kick two?

That's a gross oversimplification, but I hope it gets across the point I'm trying to make.

[unborn smelt]

Yes but it's still very much earnable through challenges, allowing you to play to get the rest of BB's to buy a skin instead of sitting there with 300 BB's overhang and needing to buy more - for example.

Camouglage is debatable - there's a T3 with a literal ghilie suit, and you can earn those quite well in QP

[opaque glen]

They cost insane amounts of hunt dollars, while Cain will cost you 200 if you buy him. And he's DLC exclusive, all the BB hunters don't have the greatest camo.

[unborn smelt]

Obviously not - yet if i were forced to choose if you kick one or both i'd obviously prefer you kick only one ( well actualmy none but you get the point)

[opaque glen]

Also, to earn a 500BB hunter, it will take you 10 weeks, if you earn 50BB through challenges each week. That's kind of a long time.

[opaque glen]

I see your point, but wouldn't you rather they kick none? That's my point! Better none than one, that's what I'm trying to say. They should aim for the highest virtue. I understand there are profits to be made, but compromises can also be made, that retain profits.

[unborn smelt]

That is highly debatable...

T3 have absolutely great camo by themselves - IMO more so than many of the famed "P2W" hunters

[opaque glen]

They have great camo, but are much more expensive, thus more difficult to obtain. Many complain of Cain's camoflage.

(200 Hunt Dollars, much cheaper than T3s, which are usually around 1000.)

[unborn smelt]

That last part is where i can't agree. I don't say you're wrong tho either.

We simply don't know. To assess if they can make enough money to keep going without those methods we'd need to know the financial situation

Which we don't

[opaque glen]

Don't you agree with the principle, though? I'm not saying with certainty that these decisions are equal to kicking no dogs, instead of one. What I'm saying is that if possible, they should aim for that. Of course profits and player retention are still important.

[unborn smelt]

"If possible" being the key part here.

Yes if possible they should

[opaque glen]

I agree. It's hard to know without understanding their financial situation, but if I had to guess, I'd assume these changes could be made with minimal repercussion (Banishment of limited-time cosmetics, and implementation of natural progression in BP)

[unborn smelt]

Thats where my guess differs

They can likely optimize it a bit i guess

But seeing how people still fall for the far worse manipulations of other companies, i don't trust them to stich with Hunt enough despite little actual draw from Hunt but continually more pull fro. Worse companies

[opaque glen]

I personally feel that if players want to play hunt, they should do it because of enjoyment, not because of FOMO, or other manipulative tactics.

[unborn smelt]

Personally I 100% agree - yet my experiences tell me players don't do that

[opaque glen]

Anyways, it's getting late, I really need to sleep. It's been great having this discussion with you, Rangorok. Maybe we can play a game sometime :)

[unborn smelt]

Hey have a nice evening/ night and sleep well. I also need to do some stuff i kept pushing away 🤣

[opaque glen]

Thanks, and good luck! Happy hunting! Add me if you ever want to play sometime (NAE)

[unborn smelt]

Am EU, but due to new job have very little time to play on an NA schedule

Have some buddies over there with which i very rarely get to play anymore

[opaque glen]

Fair enough. Sorry to hear that man, hope you find some time to play, and good luck with the new job!

On a random note, next time you have a spare moment, there's a bug that really triggers my ocd. When using a mosin nagant and hunter mode (not gunslinger) fire a round, and look down as your hunter cycles the bolt. (in low ready.) it will look like he's dislocating his wrist, and popping it back in place.

Sorry, just felt like I had to share it with someone lol.

[trail oasis]

thats very weird indeed

[opaque glen]

happens with every hunter, it's just more noticeable on hunters without gloves.

[unborn smelt]

I'll forward it

[opaque glen]

:D

[hot vigil]

This is why these Hunters are the best of the best in the Bayou!

[opaque glen]

lmaoo!

I originally refunded the skin because of it, but his watch is so nice

I had to buy it again, I just steer clear of the mosin now

[hot vigil]

That is just a general rule of thumb

[opaque glen]

I mean I have enough saved up that I can use it

but now I just don't

because this bug

anyway I need to sleep

peace

[little carbon]

This isn't a binary question. You can absolutely have something available later while still rewarding the people who dedicated their time during an event.

I don't know why it seems to be such an issue for you if there was a delay period before the passes became available and if they were a bit slower to progress outside of events.
It allows anyone to invest the work to get any skin, no true exclusivity, but it does keep the fact that time/work has to be invested to get a skin.

[hot vigil]

Again, because it is silly to say it is "worked for" or "timed invested".
It is a video game, not a job. If people's feelings gets hurt or feel lesser about their Hunter/weapon skin, bc another person were able to earn it too at different time, they need to look for some mental adjustment and maybe go outside for a while.

Most skins that people wants are not because they want them for free or didn't want to play out a battlepass, but simply because they just werent around to play Hunt for one reason or another.
They still gonna pay the money and do the time to play out the battlepass, why does it matter they did it 4 years ago or now?

[little jackal]

talks about not having a skin as a punishment @ suggests mental adjustment for feelings stuff

you gotta pick one, dude

if anything it's the fomo that needs to be treated, not the emotions from having something that others don't

[unkempt forge]

which skin are you talking about?

[hot vigil]

You pointing that out to me or?

Because I think it is fair to say that people who gets less enjoyment out of a skin if someone else have it needs to revaluate their life somewhat.
Most people here ain't throwing a fit that certain skins ain't available anymore, they just go "shame" and move on.
Because that is what it is, a shame, these skins are just artificially withheld without any reason other than "exclusivity", for a digital product, that they can give away a billion of without losing any money, other from what it could have generated for sales.

I know it is a wild pro-consumer concept that people could buy ways to obtain skins at their own leisure.

[dull mason]

Unless sufficient time has passed, it is a bit of a slap in the face to those who put in effort to get a time sensitive skin if you just put it back on the market. But it would be a nice philosophy for Crytek to lean on going forward

Also one thing that I think is being overlooked is that some people enjoy the feeling of earning the skins from the battlepass. There is no doubt that they feel more like a reward than just slinging out your wallet for the latest DLC.

[hot vigil]

For me calling playing the game for "effort" is silly. Especially with the first couple of events, they were so easy to complete that Crytek had to put on time gates for different levels.

Again if it was the trials skins or pretige skins, sure, I can agree on that.

[dull mason]

I mean with the amount of people that have been complaining about having to do weekly challenges and those asking for an extension of the battlepass I think it's fair to say that it takes some effort unless you have a ton of free time. But I do agree that the trials and prestige skins would be more rewarding

[hot vigil]

As the talk started out with, it was the concept of being able to buy old battlepasses and just play them out at your own pace.
Just re-configure the older ones into the new system of earning levels thru challenges like this time.
That way you still have to earn the skins and if you don't play during the event duration, you miss out on pact-hunters, signee trait, totems/snakes/whatever and event boost weekends/twitch drops, so it still comes with a downside.

[dull mason]

God I wish they would add more trials, but they have outright stated they are not

[hot vigil]

You literally just had to do your weeklies and you'd get everything + the overspill charm, dunno how much more easy it can be?

[dull mason]

The time limit is part of what makes the pass challenging and rewarding. Something like the questlines follow this thought better imo

Without the time limit there is no effort to the battlepass, it is just something that will be finished eventually without changing anything about how you play the game