feedback-discussion

[hot vigil]

True true, biggest issue is actually just the weapon bloat, custom ammo really pushed the grind over the edge, if I rush thru a prestige, then I usually only able to fully unlock 2-3 weapons. and don't get me started on the Vitality shot grind

[brisk timber]

I dont know. For me the prestige is something to challenge yourselfe and getting skins.
Like i said before, if you make it beneficial you would screw people who dont have hundreds of hours time to play the game.
That wouldnt be a good design.

[hot vigil]

Also my solution for the weapon unlock variant grind is: give 1%exp boost for weapon unlock evey prestige level you have.
It ain't like we get match by out bloodline level anyways. So me facing another hunter with a faster unlocked weapon variant matters little

And at prestige 100 it doesn't matter you have a 100% boost, you can't prestige anymore

[signal oracle]

@brisk timber See I do appreciate and get where you’re coming from, that’s very considerate, because I’m looking at it from the opposite end of the spectrum where Prestige is just an alternative to Trials. Which I don’t like, because Trials do reward you for your Grind in a more beneficial way than Prestige

[frosty garnet]

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Please give me the ability to inspect my weapon! there is so many skins but you can't see most of it in your hand! all other games has it so why not?```

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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the ability to inspect weapons in game, there are so many skins but you cant really see it in your hand```

[wintry comet]

buddy, read the format requirements

it's in the pinned messages in #game-ideas

[little carbon]

@near sentinel those experienced players reached (most of) those amounts of money by playing efficiently, so its fair that they have it.

Generally the only important thing to balance is income vs expenses, so that you have a gaussian curve among the players that the people that play smarter can sustain more frequently vs players that are on the lower end of the gaussian (note that this would apply within each ELO since the base chances of winning are [within an acceptable margin] equal within that bracket, so this is based on money and loadout managment skills)
That balance was given until a somewhat recent while ago, when they increased non-bounty money gains. Currently its quite safe to believe that the gaussian shifted upwards on the money curve, so the best solution would most likely to reduce the overall player income, preferably non-bounty income.

[near sentinel]

@little carbon I think the matter is simpler. Do you want a game where economy becomes trivial and you can bring the most effective loadouts for every match? If so, keep the game as is.

But if you want cheaper loadouts actually mattering/having a place, then money should be reset periodically. If not for a Seasons format, then for some other reason. Otherwise making money is simply a matter of time - I'm reaching 300h in the game and reaching 40k in the bank. At this rhythm, in another hundred hours I can start forgetting all about the cheaper loadouts. And I'm not good or efficient enough at the game, on the contrary I'm a bad shoot.

So I can assume this is the normal progression everyone goes through - an initial broke state followed up by gradual improvement until, by the 500h, everyone is rich and don't ever look back to cheap loadouts. Is this what the devs want out of the game? 4 and 5 star lobbies perpetually filled with Uppercuts & Mosins? If so, ok. But I bet the game would be much more fun and varied if everybody was forced to use cheaper loadouts now and then, as part of a season (money) reset or otherwise.

[hazy quartz]

resetting money doesn't change the money in / Money out equation. it just encourages you to spend more, so you will see even more expensive loadouts than before. Money being saved up is money that is not being used on loadouts. removing money which is not being used in the first place does absolutely literally nothing.
I agree that something has to be done about the econonomy, but money resets or caps won't change anything.

[near sentinel]

@hazy quartz , it doesn't change the money in/out equation but makes sure most players use cheaper loadouts in the first couple months after the reset. Sure, by the third month everybody will be rich again but then the Season will be coming to an end...

[hazy quartz]

you only need like 2-3 good games to to buy the most expensive loadouts possible, the effect of a reset would affect high income players only for a couple games before they are back playing expensive loadouts.

[cobalt seal]

I was discussing this with a friend. We were thinking about dynamic pricing that increases weapon prices if purchased too often (either for everyone individually or globally). This should be making Meta weapons pretty expensive most of the time. But i doubt this would really change much if you got enough money.

This system could decrease prices of weapons not used much aswell

[near sentinel]

@cobalt seal thats a very interesting idea. I could see it working.

[cobalt seal]

It at least could change the meta picks on a regular basis is what i was thinking

[near sentinel]

Another one somebody had last month is implements taxes that go up according to your bank account. Eg: at 15k+ all weapons cost +25%, at 25k+ weapons cost +50%, etc.

[cobalt seal]

I dont know about that since it simply punishes frugal players without giving a good opportunity to profit. Im looking for a Risk/reward system that forces you to make decisions

But im just spitballing

[little carbon]

Thats why you want to balance out the i/o equation. With 300 hrs, you joined Hunt most likely around or after the time the income was increased, so you havent seen the more balanced state. Back then not everyone got richer, most people actually just hovered around the same amount of money (unless playing economically advantageous loadouts), with enough people struggling to keep up with money and only some going up while playing expensive stuff often.

The current issue is not with the amount in the banks of the top %ers, its that the casual (or average) player is getting too much income. Which has been an issue since the non skill distributed, but flat distributed income from the dark tribute has been introduced.

Mind that the game wasnt unfair before, there are cheap loadouts that are still highly effective. The winfield is a great rifle, as is the romero a great shotgun. But the average player had to play more budget matches to afford an expensive one then they have to currently.

[little jackal]

I also liked the idea of making gun prices dynamically change based on the current population demand. Everyone buys mosins today? Prices skyrocket. Can't imagine more aggressive meta balancing.

poor cowboys suffer more from it tho. Maybe add brackets to the equation

[cobalt seal]

Also emulates supply and demand if done correctly which i find interesting

[little carbon]

You want to make sure that a system doesnt punish being good, but rewards it. Why arificially create a situation in which people that learn to manage their money well have to face the same struggles as people that didnt. That creates a disincentive to become better. Thats why you want to look for factors that shift the whole system into a better place, affecting all players equally, keeping up the incentive to become better.

[cobalt seal]

It could be too convoluted though and make standard loadouts a hassle which might not be good

[hazy quartz]

dynamic prices could be interesting but one drawback would be that some players would be simply unable to buy anything expensive ever. Even in the current state some players are struggling to keep afloat even with budget loadouts.

[little jackal]

yeah

[signal oracle]

@hazy quartz agree with your point on the draw back. The MMR graph shows that majority of the player base is under 5 stars, so you can imagine there aren’t too many Avto’s running around that aren’t freshly purchased DLC

[hazy quartz]

yeah

not sure what to do about the economy, all ideas have some major drawbacks or flaws, really seems like a daunting task to make it right and not break anything.

[dense schooner]

just buff medium ammo

[hot vigil]

Just want contracts with different budget limits, so you people need to actually make a choice of what they bring into the match.

[hazy quartz]

actually would like to try out this concept with low stake lobbies, high stakes lobbies and maybe mixed lobbies. maybe also higher rewards for the high stakes lobbies? or maybe keep em the same and make low stakes lobbies getting less. idk just throwing a few ideas.

[frosty garnet]

@fervent ridge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Hi, what about given a legendary hunter after purchase a define amount of upgrade points e.g 12 instead of 3 randomized traits? Allows better tailoring of the legend to preferences?```

[worthy knoll]

Again this punishes the lower end since a good Player will kill you with a Winnie too. So He wins 3 Times and buys a Mosin/Level etc while the Guy who lost still plays Winnie but now He has to compete With long Ammo.

[frosty garnet]

@fervent ridge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Is this an old ideas?
What about given a legendary hunter after purchase a define amount of upgrade points e.g 12 instead of 3 randomized traits? Allows better tailoring of the legend.```

[little carbon]

The lower (monetary) skill players should have a harder time than the better (monetary) skill players (within their ELO of course).
But that distribution should be the cause of a well balanced system, not created by an artificial ruleset.
A good system is in which you have a range where the lower skill players (within their ELO) can more rarely play more expensive loadouts, whereas the more killed players (within their ELO) can play them more often.

Players that play expensive loadouts less often then their skill would allow are the ones that make more money constantly building up a backlog and players that play expensive loadouts more often than their skill allows will lose money and eventually go broke.

The current issue is that there is too much flat income, allowing the lower and medium end to play those loadouts way too often and the top end to chain them consistently.
But the solution isnt to get the high end to the same rate as the medium and low end and equalise the playrates, but to restore the distribution to being meaningful again and to reward both skill and money managment.

[little jackal]

so effing tired of restarting the game every time qp matchmaking crashes

5 years, game still barely works

[remote ore]

sounds like a "your pc" issue

[north sleet]

@reef grail My favorite ones are getting wallbanged by someone who came in from the opposite side of the compound, straight into the building I'm crouched next to to kill me from 2m away without ever having seen or heard me. XD

[vagrant heart]

Whatchy'a think of my new suggestion? 😏

[winter socket]

pretty good idea tbh

4 minutes would have been unbalanced, but 3 is good

[unborn dagger]

You are the master of thinkin of terrible ideas lol

[frosty garnet]

@distant flume, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Nobody will ever read this but on the hunt showdown Amazon store there isn’t a iron repeater shirt and me personally I think it would look great```

[frosty garnet]

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

It would be cool if the Caldwell Rival 78 could fire both shells at once as an alternate firing mode, since it has two triggery,  just press D-Pad up on console or X to switch to Double-Shot-Mode. It would certainly add another layer to the rival and potentially increase the skillcap of the gun, since you need to learn to determine when you need the powered up double blast and when not, and of course it would leave less room for error since the 'Double-Shot-Mode' would effectively turn the Rival into a Single shot weapon and make you reload more often


Rival Double Shot Mode:

Pros:
- More stopping power at all ranges
- More consistent one-taps
- Higher Skillcap

Cons:
- More frequent reloads
- Less room for error
- Burns through ammo quicker
- Higher Skillcap```

[tribal wyvern]

@reef grail
Im curious what you consideran obvious hacker.
I got 2.7k hours, last hacker i saw was 200-300hrs ago. He headshotted me twice 250m away through a building.

Then did the same to my teammate as he tried to warn another duo who then also fell victim to his nagant pistol sniping at maxrange multiple HS in a row.

Unless people pull off tricks like that, I never assume hacker, wallbangs & "knowing where you are" are all possible. They're not hackign. I play with randoms on this discord all the time & i hear it so often "HOW DID HE KNOW I WAS THERE??" like ye probably prefiring, hearing a step, guessing based on his teammate not seeing you come out the other way etc etc.

And you say you keep running in to them, I struggle to see how you run into them so often.
If you have videos ofcourse it would help, i assume you provide to Crytek atleast.

[north sleet]

The instance I mentioned is not something "possible". I was tucked away in a corner, with eyes on the only path via which someone could've seen me. This person came in from my right, 90 degrees from the angle at which someone could've possibly seen me, walked into the building, ran straight to the wall I was at, and headshot me through the wall.

I wouldn't call them an obvious cheater if they weren't an obvious cheater. 👍 My other two teammates watched it happen as well.

I've only played for about 60 hours total, very casually. And I've run into four incredibly obvious cheaters, and a couple of people who seemed suspicious, but didn't show clear and obvious signs of cheating so I didn't make any accusations.

There's a massive difference between "How did he know?" and "This man had no way of knowing".

[little jackal]

yeah that's the thing tho, the more you play, the fewer incredibly obvious cheaters you see

[hazy quartz]

i don't know what happened in your match exactly, because i wasn't there, but someone doesn't need to see or hear you to know where you are.
maybe they saw you 10 minutes earlier going in that building and never saw you leave, by the method of crossing out all possible positions one can make an educated guess based on experience and map knowledge to get a good idea where you are and people take shots based on such an educated guess.

maybe the player came close by pure chance and saw your weapon or part of your character model was visible through the wall, maybe there was a crack in the wall. maybe you entered aim down sight which makes an audible inhale sound. I've headshot people through walls before, because their character inhaled or they switched weapons. It happens.

maybe aggro monsters alerted them of your presence, maybe red clues, red boss. There are a lot of legit options leading to that moment. Sometimes we get a bit of tunnel vision and emotional in these moments, but always rethink what happened when the emotions have cooled down and do some rational analysis with a clear mind. Hunt can be a crazy mind game at times.

But that's just my thougt, i am not saying it was not a cheater, just saying that false hackusations happen all the time because players don't know whats possible in this game or their judgement is clouded by emotions.

[signal mural]

@tulip junco I think the best part of the Thorny Doll idea is the Bounty storage in exchange for Tool slot. The bleeding chance upon being looted feels a bit unnecessary. The rest seems too complicated for gameplay and a single item's functionality. The idea alone as a Bounty vessel sounds good though especially if it could hold 1 from each Boss, allowing a solo to get all 4 Bounties theoretically.

[tulip junco]

I just don't like an idea of unexplained changes in traits behaviour for solo hunters, why should same traits work with privileges for solo hunters? So I decided to add some logic, less convenience and certain limitations to self-reviving, doubled dark time and extended serpent. The bleed chance on being looted might be unnecessary, but it could give another hunter a clue that the killed hunter have a doll which can revive him and he needed to be treated accordingly

[frosty garnet]

@compact vault, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Just throwing out some ideas to make the game better and more balanced, things that I've been hearing. 
- Lock the regions, whoever is team leader, that's the region everyone goes to on the team, ping abuse is real and is really crazy in Hunt. This is the only PvP game that doesn't have locked regions that I know of.
- Spam weapons, fanning, dual wielding, levering are all way too accurate for hip firing. Why not have the reticles open up when people spam these fast, just like the reticle does on the avto? A chain pistol is much more an issue to deal with than a avto is lol. 
_ Traits for melee players, with shotguns, all these weapons for spamming, compact ammo being so much easier to kill with, melee players (on PC) really don't have a lot of chance, maybe come up with a couple traits to help players that have a melee weapons as one of their main weapons.
- And cheating seems to be getting way worse, a lot more questionable things going on then there use to be, please get it under control.
- New boss? Why? We need new maps WAY more. Map pack of like 3 maps
I think these aren't too hard to look into and would make a game like this a lot better. This isn't or well wasn't suppose to be a fast shooting spam game and it really has turned into that, spam guns really need to be looked into so they aren't so crazy accurate being fired from the hip.
I know people are gonna get triggered over this, I don't care, I really don't care, the people triggered are the people that know this is true and don't want things to change.```

@compact vault, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Lock the regions, whoever is team leader, that's the region everyone goes to, ping abuse is real and is really crazy in Hunt. This is the only PvP game that doesn't have locked regions that I know of.
Spam weapons, fanning, dual wielding, levering are all way too accurate for hip firing. Why not have the reticles open up when people spam these fast, just like the reticle does on the avto? A chain pistol is much more an issue to deal with than a avto is lol. Traits for melee players, with shotguns, all these weapons for spamming, compact ammo being so much easier to kill with, melee players (on PC) really don't have a lot of chance, maybe maybe  come up with a couple traits to help players that have a melee weapons as one of their main weapons.```

[tribal wyvern]

As the guy wrote above.
And as i also suggested.

I don't wanna sound elitist, but with only 60 hours your claims arn't very credible. Theres very little you actually know at that playtime.
I'm still learning stuff 2.7k hours in.

A video of the whole fight would help alot to determine what happened. But I think it's a case of the guy either saw some fabric of your clothing hanging out, weapon sticking out (people in gunslinger mode is common). Or a gap in the wall. Or he checked all other corners, weren't that many more & shot you. Also consider left peeking.

And if you at 60hrs face more cheaters than i have in my entire 2.7k hours, either you have some godlike knowledge to know exactly who cheats in a game you're new to, or maybe you're just not used to how the game works yet. I can count on my own hand how many actual cheaters i've met.

[north sleet]

Thousands of hours in other games, I'm pretty confident when I see something that is literally impossible.

Hell, tens of thousands of hours.

[tribal wyvern]

But it's not "literally" impossible tho

I've seen people hear 1 footstep & manage to figure out where people are.

[little carbon]

The issue is with only 60 hours in Hunt you are most likely missing a lot of important information about how Hunt works to gauge whether something is possible or impossible.

[tribal wyvern]

Watch compilations, people do the most crazy shit

[little carbon]

For example, did you shuffle, lower your weapon or ads on your spot? All these things make a sound the enemy can accurately hear

[tribal wyvern]

Even switching weapons

[north sleet]

From what I and my teammates saw, literally impossible. He came from an adjacent compound, bypassed two buildings to walk directly into the one I was behind - I was not moving, so he didn't hear a footstep, walked directly infront of me, and headshot through a wall.

If that's not a clear cheater, nothing is. I was sitting there waiting for my teammates to give me instruction in discord - Literally not moving in any capacity.

[tribal wyvern]

But you can't spectate him

He could have been sitting in a nearby building

[little carbon]

What compund if i may ask

[north sleet]

I'd have to check again, but next time I'm playing with my friends I'll point out the one ❤️ We haven't played for a few days since I've been on Conan lol

But yeah, it was.. Kinda wild. Two minutes into a game ~_~

[tribal wyvern]

If you have nvidia, keep the nvidia shadowplay on, with 5minutes duration.
If something like that happens just save the recording.

Also continue spectating the guy, you'll see if he does more impossible plays

[north sleet]

Does AMD have something similar? I'm not the most tech-savvy person - I just play games and have other people build my PCs for me ._. ❤️

[tribal wyvern]

Should be AMD ReLive

[north sleet]

I will look that up ❤️ I'm assuming my shit MMR is why I ran into cheaters, though. Bottom of the barrel and all ._.

[tribal wyvern]

Haha, you play to have fun, mmr is pointless in this game.

Tbf, ppl also claim to have more fun in lower mmr

[north sleet]

I have plenty of fun whilst being bad at the game XD

Shooters just make me panic a lot. I pvp in a lot of other types of games with no issue, but in shooters, it's just massive panic every time there's a gunfight lol

[tribal wyvern]

Hunt is incredibly stressfull.
My friend whos Counter strike team used to be top 3, many years back. Cannot play this game because he gets way to stressed

[north sleet]

I've panicked during shooters since Halo for the original xbox XD

[little jackal]

@tiny flicker nice drawing!

[little carbon]

Its not pointless, it does make sure people play in lobbies they have a reasonable chance in

But playing for increasing it is pointless, i agree

[tribal wyvern]

Im not saying mmr is pointless ,im saying Hunts mmr is.

[reef grail]

So then you know

[north sleet]

I've sat at solidly 3 stars for ages lol. I'd probably be lower if I wasn't a scrub popping people with a crossbow constantly XD

[little carbon]

Again, it isnt, without mmr matches would be really imbalanced

[tribal wyvern]

But they are still.
I can meet 3 stars in 6 star lobbies & be at team mmr of 4 star & still have a 2 6 star team in trio, because a 3rd is low.

And then you have people who dip with 2 kd & 6k+ kills at 2-3star mmr.

[north sleet]

I've definitely run into some people who use quickplay to tank their mmr and run around in my 3 star lobbies with like 3.0 K/D

[tribal wyvern]

And tbh, aslong as it's primetime for whichever region you play, not using matchmaking still gives you, your mmrs matches.
Because if it can still find ppl in ur mmr, it won't grab from bigger mmr diff

[tiny flicker]

thx

[tribal wyvern]

Ye it's common & acknowledged by the devs.
Tho they don't think it's as big of a deal.

And the game didn't have matchmaking before they allowed us to see stars etc.

[little carbon]

Actually it did already have matchmaking, it was just completely hidden. They stated that on the devstream which introduced the stars

[tribal wyvern]

It did not work as the current one. As people faced vast difference in mmr

The "skillbased" version did not exist

There were many videos from people talking about it aswell.
Hell i remember the crying video from "Gameswithdeath" who complained that he could no longer roflstomp new players with his meme loadouts

[hot vigil]

@tiny flicker nice drawing, not that keen on the trait. Seems a little bonkers at best it only affects the Sparks, at worst it pushes already fast reloading weapons into overdrive.

[little carbon]

It was more forgiving yes, because it was built with a lower palyerbase in mind, but it did try to create even matches when possible.
There even already was an ELO rating before based on which the arrow up/down were shown

[tiny flicker]

thx for the feedback, i think it wouldn't be very noticable, but for niche gameplay useable

[tribal wyvern]

Well the use of "matchmaking" gets very transparent here.
We can't really say oh Hunt has matchmaking & so does CS:go ranked. When we talk about before stars.

Because they clearly did not work even remotely the same as hunts still could face you with the top players in the game as a bottom rank.

[hot vigil]

I can see that, my question is: would it affect the Caldwell Rival?

[tribal wyvern]

So it had a system that would make an attempt at matching you, but there was no guarantee you'd face equally skilled.
Which im not sure you could with a straight face, call "matchmaking."

[tiny flicker]

i'd say no, since it also can't use two ammo types like single shot weapons can

[little carbon]

You can absolutely call that matchmaking. Remember that that is the best the player numbers allowed

you cant have a matchmaking with the amount of brackets cs has with old hunts playerbase

Thats why the pre-stars matchmaking was adaptive, the more players were on, the fairer the matches

[tribal wyvern]

Well no obviously not, nor did i say it should.
But the point is, if it's not placing you vs equally skilled, it's not really a matchmaking system

[hot vigil]

Fair nuff, but yeah, I think I desires more creative/weird traits in general.

[tribal wyvern]

I'd be curious on your definition of matchmaking.
Is it just "it matches people together."

[little carbon]

But it is placing you against equally skilled most of the time. It was at least more than 60% of teams that were no more than one arrow different, which is absolutely fine

[tribal wyvern]

And that number is from where?

[little carbon]

Its an estimated guess based on my experiences

[north sleet]

With the prevalence of quickplay dumping, I don't think the current system works very well either lol. It's absolutely a majority of matches that have someone with way too high of a K/D to be in 3 star

[tribal wyvern]

I had plenty of double up/down arrows & up/down arrows.

But you never knew wtf it meant.
Is it top player, just 1 mmr higher?

[little carbon]

Not everyone with a KD of 2 in three star is QP dumping. Those numbers can be legit. High KD doesnt mean high ELO.

If that were so then the kill death sum wouldnt add up.
KD is expected to be a distribution over each bracket

[tribal wyvern]

As they disclosed 0 on how their matchmaking system actually worked.
But considering it didn't have "skilledbased matchmaking" I still dare not call it matchmaking.

More like a casual queue.

[little carbon]

Well a casual queue would just randomly place people together

[tribal wyvern]

Depends on kill amount. You could technically be a 2kd at 4star mmr.
Because dying enough to drop down wouldn't change the kd.
But if you're 2 kd at 3 star, I call QP dumping. You play far better to die 20 times in a row without killing anyone.

Against that mmr aswell

[north sleet]

I call dumping too, when the majority of people in it are at like 0.8

[little carbon]

Not really. A 3 star has the same chance to be of a certain KD as a 6 star, because KD is distributed over each ELO

[tribal wyvern]

Well if you kill more than you die, you climb. No?

[north sleet]

The largest factor in your mmr is the kills you get, that's why one of my friends jumped from 3 star to 5 star over like 4 games, getting 4 kills each game.

[tribal wyvern]

At 3 star mmr, you cannot really face much lower to drop fast.
As you would as a 5-6star dying to a 3star.

Which means you would go up to 4+

[little carbon]

Yes, and no. Brackets are ranges, so the people sitting statically at the top end of the bracket would actually lose MMR at a KD of 1, therefore their KD is higher

Then there is also the issue of assists, being a way to increase the KDA without increasing the ELO

[tribal wyvern]

Isn't this an argument that someone who then has a kd of 2 would not drop?

[little carbon]

Especially in lower ELO you would expect more assist because people are generally worse at aiming

[tribal wyvern]

But someone with 3 kda at 3 star, is not having majority in assist.

And theres plenty of them to

[little carbon]

A KDA of 3 probably has some outside factors involved

[tribal wyvern]

I understand both side of arguing kd/mmr.
You can have high kda with many kills still in lower mmr brackets if you do alot of solo, as you face lower mmr.

But there is also an argument that 3 star is perhaps not the mmr one would sit, with thousands upon thousands of kills with a high mmr.

You become far to experienced & predicting peoples movements to sit & die to 3 stars over & over keeping you down there.

[north sleet]

If they're playing that well, that consistently, there's not really a reality in which I can see them sitting at three star without dumping

[tribal wyvern]

Infact, AnnoyedOne has a good series of videos on this.

[little carbon]

But there are options in which even that might be legit. Consider an average 4 star that usually plays with 2 low 3 star friends. That guys KD is most likely going to be higher. After a bad day someone like that could drop into 3 star.
However the higher the KD, the less likely legit explanations become, thats just statistics

[tribal wyvern]

He did a long ass experiment. Dropping to 2 star mmr, then climbing again. Even memeing to shit, he still got back up to 5star without to much effort, struggling most in 4star.

[tribal wyvern]

Ye but not when you have 8k kills. You're not sitting at 3 star.

With a 2k kda+

[little carbon]

Yes, its possible, but i am not saying that you cant abuse MMR, i am saying that a good chunk of people that others cry about being MMR abusers most likely arent

[tribal wyvern]

It's just not statiscally possible to sit there forever, while still maintaining that kda. As eventually it would catch up.

Im not saying everyone is

I already explained that

[little carbon]

Again, why not. It is possible mathematically

[tribal wyvern]

Ye but math is not reality.
As you're not sittign there with a calculator making sure you never go up.

It is reality but u get my point

"Okey i did 4 kills, i can die 2 times & still have same kda, but i go down in mmr"

[little carbon]

They arent "gaming" the math, they are just playing normally, but the math adds up for them to be able to sit there

[little jackal]

aren't brackets kinda like sliding window? You're not fixed in one, you just get matched with other people within a certain mmr range above or below you

[little carbon]

No they are fixed ranges. For example there might be a bracket from 200 to 1500 (these numbers are freely written, there is no confirmed knowledge on where bracket borders are currently)

[little jackal]

okay

[little carbon]

Thats why sometimes people have that situation where they do really well, then they actually get a bit better and suddenly they loose a lot more, because they went from being at the top of bracket x to being at the bottom of bracket x+1

But they wont immidately fall down again because every kill they get is worth more than their deaths because the average enemy is above them in MMR

[hazy quartz]

also one thing they might not sit in low MMR forever, it might just be a snapshot of a particular bad moment when they dropped, and thats just like one of the matches before the player goes up again, spending the majority of time in higher MMR.

especially when you have a lot of kills and a high KDA you can dip very low in MMR without even making a dent in your KDA

like with thousands of kills and deaths, dying like 10-15 times to get to 3* doesnt even change their KDA by 0.01

[north sleet]

If they've gotten their KD up that high, it's a struggle to believe they're dipping so low and getting rekt by players well beneath them, though. When the simplest solution is QP dumping, that's probably the correct solution in the majority of cases

[tribal wyvern]

Tbf, why does QP affect it anyway? Theres no matchmaking in there.
And it's an entirely different gamemode

Just turn it off, case closed. It won't affect QP itself in anyway having it on/off. And atm all its doing is negatively affecting another. Should be a clear cut decision.

[vagrant heart]

What do I have to do to get upvotes on my idea? 😖 I spend so much time than everyone else but always no likes. Wtf-

[hot vigil]

Suggest ideas people like.

[signal oracle]

I feel like it was an oversight that’s unintentional. But back when there were Leaderboards, the No.1 player for kills only had a 0.54KD with something like 34 kills & 100 deaths in Bounty Hunt. But in Quickplay, they had like 17,000 kills I think. So you’d assume if that player went back to Bounty Hunt, they’d be a six star despite not playing much traditional Bounty Hunt

[tribal wyvern]

& they would climb pretty quick.

[brisk timber]

First an foremost the MMR system was introduced to give players fair matches across the board.
Its a VERY simplified system where the only takeaway is: You kill hunter, you are good player.
Thats basically its sorting rule.
So you could use that MMR for any game mode that exists and any mode that is to come.
Thats why the MMR system doesnt differentiate between QP and BH.

But with that idea arises a problem.
When you make this MMR visible it becomes a measure point for players to compare themselfes with others.
So in the players mind your sorting mechanism to ensure fair games has become...
A ranking system / ladder

So now we're halfway between two points where the playerbase wants a functioning fleshed out ranking system to compete in but the system we have is just a simple sorting mechanism to ensure somewhat balanced matches by its design.

[hot vigil]

I would argue being good at quickplay and being good at bounty hunt is two different test of skills, hence putting them both together is silly.

[brisk timber]

Youre totaly right if you want to be precise.
But if you just want a basic system you can slap on every mode you have in your game - then its actually useful.

But you shouldnt make it visible then aswell maybe 😄

[hot vigil]

I can see that

[little jackal]

nobody wants to compete in the current mmr implementation, if anything they want to drop as low as possible

[brisk timber]

Yea thats the thing, i think from devs perspective it was never meant to "compete" but to give players a tiny bit more fair matches.
Like i said, they should have just make it invisible.
Now the milk is spilled and you cant but the genie back in its bottle 😄
So peopl want an actual ranking system to compete

[little jackal]

I'd rather make kd invisible

[brisk timber]

Yea i think that we can see other players k/d at all is a strange concept

[little jackal]

kd is one of the most impactful things poisoning mmr

[hot vigil]

Think it is more an issue about "perceived fairness", something that people tends to neglect or not understand when it comes to game design.
People THINK they want a 100% fair game, but usually that cannot be further from the truth, look at trading at the moment, it is more "fair", but doesn't feel fair for most people.
It can even be so silly that two guns with identical stats can have one of the guns deemed "OP" compared to its counterpart by the community bc one gun have beefier sound to it (Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory).
Same goes with matchmaking, one the biggest issues I come across is that if my friends, who is 4star, get killed by a 5star, they will think the worst case scenario that this 5star is way above their skill level, while in reality said 5star is just a 4star that got 4 kills in their previous game and just barely made it into 5star rank.

Because the difference between a low 5star and high 5star is leagues in difference of skills, it can be hard to gauge if you got matched fairly.

[warm zephyr]

@marsh junco wdym about

Reduce the ping limit to a reasonable point (e.g. max 50-75 ms)

?

[hot vigil]

That the 125ms limit is frankly too high, making games feel janky vs. players that have sucha high ping on your server while you have 20ms.

Is my best guess

[warm zephyr]

well

I've not had a game that is lower than 200ms for a while now

[hot vigil]

That shouldn't be possible tho?

[warm zephyr]

aha

I play in asia servers

[hot vigil]

Ah heard.... things about the quality of those servers

[warm zephyr]

iirc the servers are wayyyyy over in another region

but according to crytek SEA isn't its own region so 🤷‍♂️

[little carbon]

That's why the mmr should just be hidden completely, then players can't play for that MMR but instead it does assure games are equal.

Same with KDA and similar stats like teams wiped. Removing them would make people play the game more instead of trying to optimise some stat.

[little carbon]

Not necessarily, there are people that see MMR just as a technical thing that exists and don't play based on it.
And considering i don't just see empty lobbies there are a good amount of people who don't want to derank necessarily

[willow peak]

How come nobody from crytek is listening to me and putting starshells in every shotgun?

[unborn sandal]

A. Crytek only does things the community want if the entire player base collectively whines about it
B. They have much bigger things to worry about

[willow peak]

Than putting starshells in a crown and king? Doubtful

Come on, everyone, lets all get together and whine about this

[north sleet]

"Ah yes, let's make our game inaccessible to people living in Alaska"

I never had less than 140 ping on any game when I was living there. ._.

[hot vigil]

Accessibility vs. overall player enjoyment is always an issue and hard balance, like how Hunt's low light and sound focus are inherently hostile to people lacking in those two aspects.
A competitive game sadly cannot accommodate everyone as there will be a breaking point where someone's enjoyment is lessen on the expense of others.

It ain't ofc a hard line and there need to be some leniency to it. For example we can take closer populated regions such as Europe and limit it a little more as that usually is no issue for those who lives within the region, but still limits people overspilling from far away regions

[crystal plume]

The current system will always give you access to at least one region, even if your ping exceeds the limit

[frosty garnet]

@brisk timber, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Titel: Fusees creating smoke
Description: As a tool to counter sniper corpse camping i thought about a good solution. As Choke bombs are actually fine as they are and i think it wouldnt be cool to change them into smoke's - we could make fuses have some kind of smoke column just like this:```Attachments:
<https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524577494863708180/1087838809485484145/burning-red-flare-flame-football-hooligan-football-fans-lit-up-lights-smoke-bombs-football-pitch-burning-red-flare-120129152.png>

[brisk timber]

GOD DAMN

can we allow "Titel" pls?

[queen jungle]

That's too German

Like the idea, as long as it's proper volumetric clouds rendered identically to everybody.

[brisk timber]

i think maybe devs could re use the smoke columns from the devils moon event

[hot vigil]

@brisk timber Not a bad idea, tho Flares/fuses kinda lose their perk of highlighting hunters with the light if you add smoke to them.
Also 99% sure that crytek basically said that creating dynamic smoke is a no no.

[little jackal]

those bulletproof ones, right 😄

[queen jungle]

@tulip solstice I'm not sure I fully understand your suggestion, would you mind giving additional info in the description?

[tulip solstice]

yes

[brisk timber]

Not necessarily. They could still ignite stuff, the smoke doesnt have to be an extinguish mechanic.

[tulip solstice]

i made a picture look

2 slot too

sorry forgot to attach picture in post sorry. 5min mode was enabled so i coudlt write

https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/11xua9c/a_boltaction_avtomat_variant_obviously_with_more/

[brisk timber]

Oh "highlighting" yea. Well they can still light up rooms and the column doesnt need to be very wide.

[tulip solstice]

Why does noone get me though? am i missing something?

[hot vigil]

Sure, but next issue is the engine literally cannot do this

[frosty garnet]

@tulip solstice, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched attachment type png (not in whitelist) in message (1087853364399845417) in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180): <no text content>Attachments:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524577494863708180/1087853364185931786/kpag782oo5pa1.png

[tulip solstice]

i fix it wait

[hot vigil]

Or well, guess it can, just not in a way that doesn't makes the frames shit themselves.
Granted that was said long ago, so maybe Crytek can pull it off now

[half stag]

specially with the upcoming engine upgrade, which'll hopefully open more options for further innovative/creative ideas

[hot vigil]

Engine upgrade can only do so much when Hunt have its infamous spaghetti code.

[little jackal]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/fe/a3/11fea3ba798d898ef78d50a8c3e95fc9.jpg

[tulip solstice]

All necks matter

[hazy quartz]

idk, if the engine "can't do it" (smoke) we got smoke over fort bolden, smoke from firebombs, smoke after dynamite, even the choke bomb got some volume to it. I like he idea of a smokebomb.

[cobalt crag]

Has there been any news/updates regarding the EU server and routing issues? I converted 4 people to the game during the drops event and the steam sale, and they are all ready to put the game on hold because of this

[hot vigil]

Well, that is what have been said by devs in the past. Also there differences between static smoke (in-world smoke) and dynamic smoke.
And I agree there is smoke from firebombs and dynamite, but there might be some issues when the engine wanna create more intense smoke.

[hazy quartz]

maybe there was some internal miscommunication or something, but as we can see there is smoke in the game. Or for example a poison cloud is basically just green "smoke"
One thing what might be an issue with simple sprites similar to the effects we have that it could look bad if they turn up the opacity up too high but not being much an issue with higher transparency effects.

[hot vigil]

Well, there is difference between "some smoke" and making sure you make a dense masking smoke and make sure that it is equally seen for all the players.
Some quotes from people smarter than me:

All wrong here. Developing smoke client side is very easy but has the drawback that sometimes an enemy will see you through the smoke and you not. Server side is the correct choice but hard to implement and crytek are just not very experienced with healthy server side code it seems.

Developers literally said that they are not giving us smokes, because "it is difficult to program the AI to react properly to smoke."

[hazy quartz]

after thinking about it for a bit, that might actually be it that they want to do it properly and not by using early 2000s tech which would stand out too much.

and doing it properly might then be just a matter of updating the engine.

the part with the A.I makes a lot of sense, but i personally wouldn't mind about A.I looking through smokes as it's main purpose is to be used against players.

[little jackal]

maybe the existing smoke implementation is easily bypassable with a certain setting or something, while a dedicated smoke tool should be consistently reliable

[hot vigil]

Also "static in-world" smoke is "pre-baked into the map", so everyone sees the same.

[unborn dagger]

Is there a chance that they could do this once that engine update goes through?

[hot vigil]

Well, I ain't no Crytek developer, so I can only guess.
But an engine update can only do that much if the "base-code" of Hunt is spaghetti code (it is).

[unborn dagger]

Gotcha

[hazy quartz]

i highly doubt that some settings do disable smoke and even if that was the case that's something they can adjust as they decide which settings affect what.

[hot vigil]

Ofc ofc, but then the smoke itself needs to be very resources light. Otherwise it might affect lower end pc users

Which is not a natural given when it comes to making games

[rotund oasis]

The full name of the gun is "Mosin-Nagant M1891 Avtomat" making the full auto conversion of a bolt action rifle into a bolt action rifle just undoes the full auto conversion and makes it a mosin without the "Avtomat"

So a "Bolt action Mosin-Nagant M1891 Avtomat" (If it's shortened like your picture) is the same as the mosin obrez.

[tulip solstice]

I don't get it

[rotund oasis]

The avtomat is a full auto mosin

[tulip solstice]

I Kno 😔 they are both long ammo

[rotund oasis]

A bolt action avtomat would be just a normal mosin.

[tulip solstice]

Or a Krag?

[rotund oasis]

And if it's cut down like your image, that'd make it a mosin obrez.

[tulip solstice]

Or a sparks

[rotund oasis]

No.

[tulip solstice]

Why not

[rotund oasis]

Because the Krag is a Krag. The Avtomat is a mosin.

[tulip solstice]

But an avtomat is an avtomat

And mosin is mosin

[rotund oasis]

The avtomat is a mosin variant.

Just like the winfield marksman is a winfield variant. And the sparks sniper is a sparks variant.

[tulip solstice]

But avtomat doesn't have a scope

[native lake]

Wouldn't bother continuing to respond

[tulip solstice]

You guys really dislike my suggestions...

[rotund oasis]

No. There is just a communication issue somewhere. I'm sure this problem can be solved.

It's not that we dislike it. It's just hard to tell what it actually is.

[tulip solstice]

It's an Avtomat with a bolt action, and 2 slot...

[rotund oasis]

That's a mosin obrez. That already exists.

[tulip solstice]

But that's not an avtomat

[native lake]

He's totally just baiting you, really, wouldn't continue playing into it

[tulip solstice]

It's like saying mosin is krag variant

[rotund oasis]

The avtomat is a mosin variant. The obrez is also a mosin variant.

[tulip solstice]

Oh, so then Nagant Officer a mosin variant too

[rotund oasis]

The nagant officer is not a mosin.

[tulip solstice]

I should probably stop before i get banned

[sharp veldt]

Neko is correct, the Avtomat is a Mosin variant.

[tulip solstice]

@native lake am too deep into this, can't go back now.

Thanks Violet! I understand now!

[frosty garnet]

@feral bison, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

fps limiter for the menu would be nice```

[brisk timber]

#game-ideas message
@signal mural You just invented a way to make sure cheaters are getting all the avtomats. Congratulations :))

[frosty garnet]

@lament sigil, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

This one is interesting```

[umbral garden]

they’re not that hard to get

the tree the mosin is long but not impossible and everyone knows money is no object in hunt unless you’re losing hunters every other round, once you unlock the avto you can basically run it on any hunter you want so making it a rarity would actually be something unique

if a cheater wanted an avto it would have it regardless

[marsh flame]

I mean cheaters would kill you no matter the weapon. I dont mind the avto being more rare especially in 5-6 star lobbies were you see them unironically every match.

But i would still prefer them just nerfing the avto by removing the clip reload and making it special ammo over just making them rare.

[little carbon]

I don't know why people think that making the avto special ammo would be a good solution. It would create the opposite of what some people currently believe to be an issue.
Special ammo would mean you would basically get nothing back per box and you will see a lot less boxes.

And the a to isn't broken, if any it's a bit overtuned, so if any a small change would be advisable.
Considering that crytek said that they are reworking ammo, i hope that they completely remove ammo sharing, rebalancing all reserves, and most importantly have recovery be a gun bound stat and not based on reserve. That could also fix the issue of the lebel being a worse mosin.
The avto could be around 15/15 with a recovery of 5-7. That would be half the reserve people had with dual uppercuts and a bit worse recovery.

[marsh flame]

the gun never really belonged into the game to beginn with. its been in the game since the beginning and always had balancing problems. personally i wouldnt care if they just completely remove it. its the biggest noobtube weapon in hunt because you can just freely spam weapons without any problem in a game where aim matters the most. i have seen 3 stars with 0.5 kd who only played the weapon for a day and jumped up to 5 star. id rather fight a trio sniper spitzer squad than an avto squad. its the same as getting dual wield headshotted from 30 meters, you are not like "oh yeah GGs to this guy for out playing me", no its mostly just brainless rng spam with those weapons.

[undone star]

Completely agree with @marsh flame its utterly annoying that there seem to be so many avto noobs on this discord and they downvote every avto nerf suggestion no matter what. Making the avto special ammo would kill the avto sweats immediately because you cant spam 45 shots anymore. Nobody would play it competitive anymore, just as a meme. As it should be.

[ornate raptor]

#game-ideas message
Would probably bring it down to 25 or 50 since you can repeatedly get kills on the same hunter and wiping the lobby leads to a free bounty if you dont have one yet.

Too high of a cash prize would incentivize sitting in a random bush with a sniper as well as kill and extract playstyles, completely disregarding objectives.

[unique osprey]

I would change it so that looting hunters give money+consumables rather then kills give money. In other words looting give guaranteed money

[ornate raptor]

That's actually even better

[unique osprey]

@night copper I would change your suggestion to looting hunters give guaranteed money for balance

[ornate raptor]

#game-ideas message
Would still prefer if the tactical gadgets tree, derringer and ammo box are still locked behind bloodline rank.

[unborn sandal]

Avto doesn’t fit gameplay wise nor lore wise. It’s a gun from 1917 in a game set in 1895, and far outshines its competition. High 5 and 6 star lobbies are basically confined to three loadouts right now, with avto being by far the one with the least skill required. It’s also pushing six stars to drop mmr so that they don’t have to deal with people running around using assault rifles in their late 1800s Wild West game

[little carbon]

What you are saying goes against any professional balance philosophy and seems like it could potentially be fuelled by personal feelings, which is something to avoid when making gameplay design decisions. The goal should never be to have a weapon to become useless, instead you want everything to be within a reasonable margin. And while the avto is most likely still within it a case could be made that it is a bit overtuned. In which case a slight adjustment downwards to bring it within the acceptable margin would be warranted.
And its not like the avto just makes noobs win against competent people, if any it makes them win against other noobs or people who refuse to learn from their mistakes.

[queen jungle]

@night copper There are intentionally only little rewards for killing and looting other hunters so people play the objective of the game and go for the bounty instead of just doing PvP.

[little carbon]

@night copper especially considering you always have enough time to get to a banishment before they can run if you dont waste time

[marsh flame]

90% of streamers and people who got a ton of hours will all agree the avto needs to be nerfed atleast with special ammo. like rachtaz said in his video about the video, its insane that the weapon has 324 bullets if you take 3 ammo boxes with you. the weapon is broken and i honestly think the only people who say it isnt are low elo players who touched the weapon once, said the recoil is strong and never touched it again. im personally good with it, its not uncommon to get 8+ kills with it in a match but it is also such a boring weapon because it requires barely any skill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0-lCrKW_k

[undone star]

@little carbon its abaolutely not. Of course i dont like the avto. But not because of some weird bias or something but because its broken on high ranks. If you dont get kills with the avto with just special ammo, your not counting on a good balance but on a cod spam AK 47 playstyle in hunt. You can shoot all 15 shoots while a sparks can only shoot one.

You have to give a good reason why the avto is balanced as it is not me reasoning the opposite. Right now the avto + double sparks playstyle is unbelievably against the gunplay spirit of hunt. People dont liking it because without it their kda would be significantly lower doesnt change that.

[undone star]

This

[queen jungle]

Avto always has been and always will be in need of a nerf. When every other gun is fine, there will always be the avto to complain about. It's the "Avto Default".No matter what, people will always complain

[little carbon]

That is what people are saying, but players are usually quite bad at making good balancing decisions because they are the group that have the biggest bias coupled with the least professional knowledge.

[undone star]

What a good place to leave a weapon in...

[queen jungle]

Well yes, players lack the insight into balance that devs have. And with the avto being the only semi-automatic gun, it'll always stand out from all the rest.

[undone star]

I always here pretty good nerf ideas and just people complaining about them without reason and own ideas. Because for them it'll get hard to keep their KDA up without avto 😉

[little carbon]

Yes.
Not just the insight into the actual data tho, also the knowledge about the theories and models behind balancing

How many players have read a book about game design theory?

Or about advanced statistical mathematics

[queen jungle]

There is no real need for an avto nerf, other than maybe doing something to limit the bonus ammo from running dual sparks pistol.
The avto will always stand out and when people complain about the avto, that's a good sign that gun balance is in a very good spot since it's normal to complain about the avto

[undone star]

Oh sorry, didnt knew i needed that to give good suggestions. Lets delete the suggedtion sites frim the server then

[queen jungle]

That's what I meant by "insight": telemetry data, statistics, etc.

[little carbon]

It was a bit unclear to me what you meant, thats why i wanted to clarify

[little carbon]

You dont need it to give suggestions, but yes, you usually need it to give good suggestions.
Its the same reason why you let architects plan houses and not residents, because they have knowledge about structural integrity

And suggestions are also there for more harmless things, like new weapons that people want to see.

[undone star]

Sorry but i never heard a more stupid argument :p "its a good spot that everyone is complaining, that means it has a good spot in the meta" what? Almost every other weapon has a good spot in the meta without being complained about.

And the statistics argument sounds a aweful lot like the dolch argument back in the day from the devs: "we only see the dolch in high mmr lobbys a lot, no need to nerf" just for it to be nerfed an update later. And what is that for an argument? "Yeah, only the people with money play it because we nerfed it through price changes in a game without moneywipes" no need to study game theory to see that these are not good arguments.

[queen jungle]

Well suggestions are only that: suggestions. The devs check the channel on a regular basis, but just because something is popular is no indication at all that it is what the devs want.

[marsh flame]

"The avto will always stand out and when people complain about the avto, that's a good sign that gun balance is in a very good spot since it's normal to complain about the avto"

thats a weird argument lol, how is saying it being complaint about being to OP is a good thing lol.

i guess they shouldnt have nerfed the dolch back in the day aswell since so many people complained about it.

[crystal plume]

I would've enjoyed if avto was made special ammo at least temporary until the ammo changes that they teased in the patch notes 😄

[marsh flame]

they should try around more with the balancing like we had in the last event

[queen jungle]

I never mentioned the word "meta". And you got the facts on the Dolch wrong, it wasn't just in "high mmr" ranges, but rather that it was commonly used by not-so-great players to achieve high MMR levels, while truly good players can use any gun and win.

The avto has already been nerfed quite a bit throughout the history of the game and people will always complain about it since it is a semi-auto weapon and thus very strong in a game like Hunt. And it makes perfect sense for it to be strong.

If you asked me on how to "fix" the issue of avto being a popular choice, it would be to change the way guns and items are priced. Make the avto cost $1,200 + [33% of total Hunt Dollars owned]. This would very much help combat the popularity of strong guns since they would be far more expensive and players would have to save up to use such strong guns instead of just running them match after match after match.

[crystal plume]

Ah yes, the 400k avtomat

[marsh flame]

i wish

[queen jungle]

Only the first time 😉

[crystal plume]

Sounds like too artificial of a solution for my taste, I think making it special ammo with slightly improved pickup rate would've been the most reasonable first step, make people commit into the one mag that they have instead of having 2 extra reloads ready to go while letting them refill it with a reasonable amount of special ammo boxes

[little carbon]

Funnily enough the last dolch nerfs basically didnt do anything if the gun is handled by someone competent

[crystal plume]

Could easily also be explained in lore if that was a problem, "experimental ammo for an experimental weapon"

[marsh flame]

depends on the person, i never ever ran out of money with prestiging and playing weapons i wanna play not really caring much for cash in 2k hours. its way to easy to gain money in hunt not that i mind it that much but blancing on money isnt the best idea.

[crystal plume]

Would also enable them to tune the stats to be more in line for what the gun is intended for, like removing the 200m headshot range

[little carbon]

Having it standard ammo with a special set of reserve and pickup rate without the ability to share ammo would probably be better.
It should be able to refuel from normal boxes

[undone star]

Not a bad idea ngl. But why do you have to make a weapon so outofbalance overpriced if you just could nerf it by giving kt special ammo/stop shared ammunition pool for that specific weapon/remive wallbang capability of it/reducing damage or something in that area? That would make it more inline with the meta and let people play this full automatic meme without taking the fun out of it

[marsh flame]

atleast before the sparks pistol you could tell if there was a meta avto player because they had to empty their weapons to get the most ammo before a fight. nowadays i see people not shot it for 30 min.

[queen jungle]

Well it wouldn't just be for the avto. Mosin = current price + 25%
Vetterli = price + 15%
Winfield = price + 10%
Dynamite stick = price + 2%

This way people hoarding money would be easily countered and the density of strong long ammo guns broken.

[crystal plume]

Why have wealth at that point?

Might as well just keep prices as they are and add an even more artificial money cap

Does the same job essentially with less work

[little carbon]

Hoarding money should be a consequence of being a good player and not punished. If the current situation allows not good enough players to make money, then income needs a flat reduction across the board.
For example by drastically cutting down on non-bounty income like the dark tribute

Which i think they really should do

[hot vigil]

We just need contracts with budget limits.
Lemme take a contract where my budget limit is $1000!

or lower

[undone star]

I dont want to punish people with 1.000.000 hunt dollars either. Let them have them. Just nerf the aspect of the weapon ingame

[marsh flame]

i never though i would see socialism in hunt showdown

[little carbon]

So income becomes a meaningful distribution over skill within an ELO again

[crystal plume]

There still are players who struggle with hunt dollars as hard as it might be to believe for some

So cutting down on income is not a good move

Imo we just need more things to spend hunt dollars on

[queen jungle]

It would emphasise the survival aspect of Hunt that has been lost over time. Having to save up for a strong gun would introduce the fear of losing it and thus make players think twice before picking a fight instead of mindlessly rushing to any shots like it's common nowadays.

With the current system, Hunt Dollars could just as well be removed as it's easy to get money and the balance factor of pricing has largely been lost.

[hot vigil]

I do sometimes if I get off a wrong foot after a prestige.

[crystal plume]

Making cleaning and respeccing hunt dollars is a good first step towards that imo

[queen jungle]

But it's never going to happen anyways, so why bother...

[little carbon]

It is, if at the same time the prices for the basic items (medkit, melee, weak needle) and cheap but effective weapons (winfield, conversion, romero) are also decreased again to their previous points

[marsh flame]

yeah i agree that nerfing the economy is imo usually a bad idea. good players will play what they wanna play anyway while bad players will struggle even more.

plus people would play more passive if they had less money and would do less chad moves.

[little carbon]

So for the struggling people nothing would change, since both their income and expenses get reduced, for the best people nothing would really change, only that their money goes up slower now. But the average player i going to have to manage their money more again

[queen jungle]

Well, survival is the secondary objective after extracting the bounty. People should want to keep their hunters alive because traits and gear are hard to get.

[marsh flame]

yeah but that would just increase stuff like randoms leaving their teammates behind etc.

i had 240k before i prestiged the first time and i still played budget weapons because they were fun.

[little carbon]

Difference in equipment isnt a big thing in Hunt tho, this isnt Tarkov. I am swimming in money, yet my favourite loadout is a winfield jsut because it is a really good weapon

Hell, its the weapon i am taking down the avtomat players with

And in terms of shotguns i only take the Rival over a romero because of personally liking it, but i do think that the romeros copnsistency makes it the better gun

[signal mural]

I personally am not looking forward to MMR dipping Solo Necromancers & Solo Sniper Necros... I don't play meta and MMR 5+ so this whole Avto discussion doesn't often concern me.

[little carbon]

I think the bigger issue with self res is the people that wait for 15 mins to revive to save their Hunters. Still think self revive shouldnt just have a starting time gate, but also an end, turning it into a time window

So if someone doesnt get up after a minute you can just leave

[hot vigil]

Yes

Only thing I wanted

[little carbon]

Just having it be like: unlocks after 10s, locks after 30

Allows self revive for the situation it is really healthy for: Trades as a solo

Honestly id even be fine if they reduced the 10s again

Giving a better chance to get back up after a trade

[marsh flame]

trades shouldnt be really a problem to begin with imo or atleast not this much like we have right now. there is pros and cons to having trades and not.

[little carbon]

They are a necessary evil because otherwise "low ping abuse" would be a thing. Theres basically two types of trades:
Trades by velocity: They just exist and need to exist in a game with bullet velocity
Trades by timeline inversion: This happens due to latency when the worse shot is registered first in the server. They dont need to exist but are better than the older solution, which was hard invalidation

Worse players would need to play more budget loadouts per expensive loadout. Which is fine.
An ideal curve would be a gaussian, with most players being in roughly the same ratio for budget to non-budget and then some outliers in both directions.
Do mind that most of the people struggling do so because of misplays and not learning from those misplays.

Or more commonly due to mismanaging money

Buying unnecessary stuff that costs too much in relation

[marsh flame]

yeah but its like putting cardboard over a hole in a wall. sure its a solution but its not really a fix. they could start with putting a proper ping limit/the game automatically putting you into the closest server you are in without being able to choose the region your self, you know the thing 90% of modern games do.

but i know hunts argument against that is low player count

[brisk timber]

Teams dont have any time window aswell.
If a corpse doesnt get burned it can get revived.
Its in the killers responsibility to burn a corpse.

If you play 2vs2 and you kill one guy and the other vanishes you would burn his mates body aswell.
If not and you move on the guy can come back and revive after 10min or whatever time.

Just get used to burning corpses.

[little carbon]

That would reduce trades, yes. And reducing the ping limit would be fine as long as two mechanics stay:

• you always have at least 1 server
• You can invite people from anywhere and play with them and the matchmaking is based of the host

[marsh flame]

yeah i agree with that

[little carbon]

And their current system fullfills those requirements. They could easily lower the "limit" to a lower number

[little carbon]

People usually dont just vanish tho, they have to move, which makes sound, so you can track the other guy, murder him and then move on. In most cases you know if there is another person around, at least in higher ELO

[signal mural]

I would like Solo Necro to be 1x use unless you have a Bounty token or have looted a Hunter's corpse to recharge the skill in that same round. I'm not too concerned about it being used as a Death Cheat alternative.

[little carbon]

Also remember that solo already gives you an unreasonable amount of extra rewards and puts you against people much worse

During the event i made quite a lot of money by just running solo

[marsh flame]

i wish they would bring back the system from the last event where you could hear people leave the match

[signal mural]

I think burning bodies of any suspected solo will be basic gameplay after 1.12.

[hot vigil]

I don't agree with that logic: In my 900h of game time and experience, usually people (especially not in trios) don't just disappear when their buddy goes down. Also there is difference between "everyone is dead, they ain't coming back" vs "I killed his guy but he can come back on his own behest".
Also burning a teammate usually leads to active gameplay where chokes gets send flying or you get shot trying to reach the body with a burnable, burning a solo is very passive gameplay where you just sit around.

[mint phoenix]

is there still a way of practicing weapons on zombies in 1.12? the "training" button seems to have been replaced by the tutorial button

[crystal plume]

You can load in with the loadout of your active hunter by choosing the advanced tutorial

[signal mural]

I think it is broken that each death even when Solo Necro'n affects your MMR. If I die 4x to some duo .5-1.5 stars lower than me but then revive again and knife them both to steal their bounty... well I go down in MMR most likely, have a well paid out win, & then get put up against even lower skilled enemies next game.

[brisk timber]

Oh i dont know, i have seen plenty people that start to play bush wookie when their mates die.
Just some days ago i had a game where a guy stayed +100meters away and rotated everytime we get close to him. It was not easy to track him and he responded with nasty sparks shots.
Ofc we got him down. But if he just had hidden a compound away we wouldnt have known.

Its just not common because its boring. But patient teams can do it. I do it myselfe sometimes.

Also burning a teammate usually leads to active gameplay
And thats exactly what i said.
Get used to burning corpses.
A solo that burns will stand up aswell.

[hot vigil]

In my experience burning solos doesn't really leads to exciting gameplay, especially bc you are not sure if they actually have solo revive or not, so sometimes you are burning solo with no Necro.
More so a good solo can REALLY waste your time by timing his revives in a way where minimum amount of bars are burned every time.
And good luck if that is the case and you don't have enough burnables at hand.
Also when a solo stands up it ain't really active gameplay, you just shwack him down again, which eh, not that interesting.

When you burn a solo you spend time babysit a corpse safely.
When you burn a team-mate you risk getting shot.

And it is easily solvable, just give solos a time gate to revive, it would fix the most painful hurdles of being solo (trades and getting headshotted by dualies 60m away), but don't waste peoples time.

[brisk timber]

I dont wanna discuss this part again.
Yea i agree, there are things around burning corpses that can use finetuning.
Things like "if youre dead and burning, you get up and killed again, you should keep on burning".

The reason for this discussion was that it was argued for a limit on the time of self revive.
And i think a artificial time limit on self revive is not fair.
Teams dont have 1min for getting revived or something alike.

The time limit for a revive is: a burning corpse.

[hot vigil]

But a team also cannot come back from the dead when everyone is dead.

[brisk timber]

Well "everyone is dead" as a solo is basically a burned out solo.

And again, thats finetuning stuff again. Like. with the addition of chokes and stuff, maybe its a good time to remove salveskin from game or something like this. So burning is faster.

[hot vigil]

Faster burning really punishes teams tho, solo can easily coordinate their revives for minimal bar loss, much harder for teams.

So don't think that is the solution.

Also losing 25hp and getting up already put you in long ammo risk zone, being easily punished for 50hp would mean that people that goes down a put even more back.

[brisk timber]

Well teams have chokes. A solo cant choke himselfe out of burning.

[hot vigil]

But a solo can revive himself negating burning a bar.

[brisk timber]

Ok so you want to say you have a safe way to bait a solo into reviving?

[hot vigil]

Where he get shot and burned again, which leads to my point, it waste time for everyone.

[brisk timber]

But that wasnt the point of the discussion

We were arguing about a max time limit

[hot vigil]

No, just want solo revive to be a insurance vs. lucky (or skillful) far away headshots and unlucky trade.
Even think it should be 4 seconds again, that waste less time.

[brisk timber]

a max time limit wouldnt change anything of that

You turned this convo to another flaw of self revive 😄

[hot vigil]

Max time limit would mean that the solo have to act. Think it should be 4 sec (maybe 5) before reviving with a celling of 10 sec.

[brisk timber]

Ok sure but he can stilll revive 4-5 times? you mixed to problems here

[hot vigil]

Yeah, but if he choose not to get up after 10 seconds I can just leave him be.

where current solo means that even after 10 seconds I still have to wait bc they can still get up.

[brisk timber]

No you can burn him. Than you have the same outcome.

He will stand up 4-5 more times

just like with a max time limit

[hot vigil]

Not always, sometimes they try to wait hoping you walk away.

[brisk timber]

And then revive in the last second

[spiral crane]

you can literally stand where his head is and melee him the micro second he gets up and he can do nothing

[hot vigil]

Another issue is also that I simply don't know if he have necro or not.
So it is nice to say "oh well, 10 secs are up, he didn't have necro"

[spiral crane]

i know because i did it when the event was live and it was 4 sec

[worthy knoll]

I See it Like this: in Most cases its better to Not be First at the bounty compound, so you do have time to wait and watch a solo burn Out and then come to the Boss Fight as a third Party.

[frosty garnet]

@glacial wedge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Sound trap idea:

Drunk hobo sitting on the floor with a bottle of moonshine.

You walk close he starts shouting at you, you get closer he throws his moonshine bottle at you.

You are soaked momentarily and if you introduce spark (gun shot maybe) you set on fire.

Maybe silenced guns don't produce enough spark. They would maybe spawn 50/50 chance in a compound courtyard or something. I don't think they should be everywhere.

Lemme know what y'all think.```

[little jackal]

watch a solo burn out, the gameplay we deserve

[brisk timber]

I completely understand that having to wait for burning out a hunter or kill him another 4-5 times is tedious. Thats a separate problem and it needs attention.
But burning out should still be the solution from a gameplay design.

That a downed hunter can come back 10min later is unrelated and a different "problem" if at all.
I dont think its even a problem just an intended mechanic.
If you dont burn him - good for him, bad for you. Just like a team you didnt completely wipe.

To counter multiple ressurection one could argue that not the max time to revive is the problem but the amount of revives. A limit to how often a solo can revive would be much more of a solution here.

I already advocated in the past to give a Hunter a 1-time self revive that can only be replenished by looting a dead hunter. So if a solo cant win a fight after a self revive hes out.

[spiral crane]

solo having a self rez shouldnt be this big of a issue for most people and i feel like the people who are mad about it really havent play a serious amount of solo and watching a body burn out is just as much apart of the game without it because you run into people like me who where if my teammates get absolutely rolled im gone until i know i can have a good window to rez them safely

[hot vigil]

Issue is that burning a corpse ain't always at hand and more so, having one trait warping how we do our hunter loadouts seems like a unhealthy trait in my book.
There is also the edge cases where you just can't find a lantern/far away from compound or the solo dies in water.

[hot vigil]

I have played a decent amount of solo, but nevertheless, fun is two way road when it comes to game design. non-solo player or not, the design should be fun for both parties.

And there is a whole can of worms to open how designing a good solo experience in a game that also accommodate teams in the same lobby is quite the hard task that will always skewer the favour in one direction or another.

[worthy knoll]

When there is No way to Safe your mates (which is almost certainly the Case as the Last one in a Trio and the other two are already burning) yes you should leave. Cutting your losses is intended gameplay.

[spiral crane]

i say this with no offense intended but what is your star rating and are you aware of how good long ammo is

[hot vigil]

I am 4/5star depends on how much I wanna play tryhard.

And the issues I have with long ammo is whole other discussion :b

[cobalt seal]

I played a lot of solo during the last event and i can count my safe solo revives on one hand. More often than not it was just smarter to leave the game after you hear the first trap being set up.

Ofc death cheat was a thing during that

[hot vigil]

I agree on that, luckily the grounded pact would notify my team for that. Issue is when we don't hear that log out sound the question is: Is this solo waiting or don't they have death cheat yet?

Hence why I don't like the 10 second "fix", makes it less likely for the solo to have a good second wind chance.

[cobalt seal]

Im not sure if necro should be communicated to enemies like in the event. I kinda like the uncertainty. Players should always account for necro if they encounter solos. Thing with a time limit is that you either make it useless for solos because its way too short to utilize most of the time. And too high of a limit makes players feel forced to camp a body for 10 minutes.

[hot vigil]

Eyup, I think the question should be: "For what reason do we give Solo's the Solo Revive?"
Personally I see it as a charm against "unlucky plays" where you get doomed from far by a dualies or trade with the last guy on the team.
Because I agree solo is severely more punished in that regard compared to teams.
But I don't think it should be a "get out of jail free" trait if the enemy team choose not to burn and camp you.

That said, there is ofc space for flexibility, shouldn't only work if those two scenarios happens, think a solo should be able to take the risk (and reward) if they die in a big fight with multiple teams

[cobalt seal]

I really dont have a good answer for that. To me, unlucky plays are a part of the Hunt experience. If i solo i usually get matched with (kinda) worse players which already gives me a lot of favor in many fights. But im curious how things will play out when solo necro gets reintroduced.

[signal mural]

I think solo Necro's availability should be enemy proximity dependent (enemy dead or alive).

[cobalt seal]

But that could encourage camping even more if you got no flammables

[hot vigil]

That is a fair assessment, think another factor is the perception people have of: "Why is solo getting special treatment, higher rank guy gets to come down and clown on me and my teammates AND gets special treatment".

[cobalt seal]

This revive seems to have a lot of potential for frustration if done wrong. Im curious if that will stay true or If its just another stalker beetle situation.

I can see players adjusting to solo necro via consumables or some other default plays. Question is if this revive will have much value then. I dont think so and that why im cool with it.

[hot vigil]

I am always iffy with solutions that goes into the inventory, as that is already clogged with "mandetories" such as melee tools, chokes and medkits.

[cobalt seal]

Well you usually dont need to look too long for a lantern thats what i meant with default plays. Traps are a thing aswell

[signal mural]

Well, I mean you could only solo Necro when an enemy is within 50M. Thereby the solo would have pressure to revive before teams can revive & depart. They could still revive from a medium range trade or if they are really determined to wait... Revive when some unsuspecting people come near.

[cloud lark]

i’m just the best ideasman

[cobalt seal]

I read your comment the other way around. Revive only if no Player is nearby. Interesting idea and i cant gage how useful it would be.

[cobalt seal]

But i generally dont like stacking conditions just to try an make things fair

[hot vigil]

K.I.S.S.

[cloud lark]

why people questioning my idea 🤨

[little carbon]

Burning teammates is different then burning solos. With a teammate you can leave some time before the burn ends, because you know the teammate isnt within x range because you control that area, so you can leave early knowing they cant get to the downed player in time. With a solo you have to wait until they burn out.
Id be fine with an option that doesnt allow a solo to revive while they burn as well.

What ELO are you playing in if i may ask? Cause in my experience in higer ELO teams usually dont split this much (except KD farm snipers) so tracking teammates after you get one down is usually not a big problem and situations like the one you are describing are quite rare

[brisk timber]

Thats a point i think that had a ton more importance in the past - before chokes and necro were a thing.
I think from a game design and gameplay standpoint burning a hunter and having firebombs in your loadout was a basic must have and wanted. It just got watered down over the years because burning was so punishing.
I think with this solo revive crytek wants to move back in this direction and its even intended to make burning more relevant again.

But thats a bit of speculation on my part ofc

[signal mural]

No, I think the worst part of Solo Necro is the danger of K/D farming snipers. If I counter-snipe a sniper & he can just get up & run off to hide another 4-5x... blargh...

It is a difficult skill to balance.

When you see it in the hands of someone like PsychoGhost, it's more clear how it could be fun. 3v1 at a Boss Lair where he's staying in hard to reach spots & angles to avoid being burned or camped.

But the darkside are cheap wins where the solo waited till everyone else died or one team is left caught off guard/reviving & catches them. Or stays so far removed you cannot reach them in 10s and they just rotate & repeat...

[cobalt seal]

Yeah i get that. I was in a long range fight against a sniper and surprisingly won with my scottfield. I was too far away to get to him in time. But i just shouldve run from him considering my loadout

[little carbon]

I think a reasonable time limit on the revive would probably the best compromise between all sides.

It doesnt weaken the revive in itself, but makes it impossible for a solo that got downed to waste as much time as possible

I would lower the starting timer to 5s tho instead of 10

To give a better chance for a heat of the combat revive

This changes the system so both parties have to be proactive, the team has to secure the body quickly and the solo has to make a play. No side can just dilly-dally and slow down the game

[brisk timber]

Im mostly in 5* and 90% time i play duos or solo.
For me its a bit harder to judge how stuff evolves in trios but at the same time i kinda dont want to (because i feel like trios is a bit more on the untactical side anyway when it comes to map traversal and awareness in the open field ...but i dont wanna open this can of worms now :D).

I didnt meant split teams anyway - just the strat to hide and come back later to revive when the smoke settled and the enemy team moved on because they cant bother to play hide and seek with the last guy whos there or maybe isnt.
Thats a thing that ofc many dont play because they cant be bothered to play slow and hide or are with randoms and its boring.

[little carbon]

But thats what i mean, if you are within reasonable distance to your teammate and they get downed, you cant hide. Cause you either a) dont move and get found or b) move, therefore make sound and will get tracked and hunted down

[brisk timber]

Like this smart fella. There are people who play carefully and have time to wait stuff out.

[little carbon]

Against good people this just doesnt work, You can hear crouchwalking over 50m away, other forms of movement a lot further

[brisk timber]

Yea i can see that this is aswell maybe a thing that is more true to a trio.
In a duo i often dont have the time or space to track someone down if he really doesnt wants to be found.

[spiral crane]

you absolutely can hide

[little carbon]

Rarely

Like really rarely

Unless you were far to begin with

[signal mural]

Sound has been really messed up since 1.11.

[spiral crane]

my man im unfortunately stuck in 5 star you dont even have to be that far a head start is a head start its about the route you take and knowledge of the map

[brisk timber]

Ok but the option can be there - why shouldnt have a solo this option?
And tbh its just a matter of a team burning your corpse - than this choice is gone anyway.

I think having a firebomb again in ones loadout is just something you have to get used to.

[spiral crane]

also if someone runs at you and you shoot them once then you have a window

[little carbon]

But why? Tuning it down to a more reasonable level seems the better choice.

[spiral crane]

high mmr lobbies rarely have close fights unless things are being closed out

[spiral crane]

you dont there are 2 types of fire bombs you can get from looting a body

normal fire bombs are really common loots

[little carbon]

Changing it to have a maximum timer wouldnt change the outcome in over 90% of situations anyways. It would just make sure that those outcomes dont take 5+ minutes to happen

[brisk timber]

Why not? It was once a legitimate feature that you had to plan in. Theres a reason firebombs exists. They were there before chokes or necro. It was once are really important part of the game.
I think that crytek intends to make it a bit more important again aswell with that update.

[cobalt seal]

If a Duo/trio doesnt have any flammables, traps, concertina bombs or lantern nearby and cant be arsed to go look for something it kinda is their mistake.

[spiral crane]

its very easy to find fire

[little carbon]

Its not about not wanting to burn. Its about not wanting to burn 4+ times

[cobalt seal]

We are Talking 8-12 Slots of consumables

[brisk timber]

Yea thats another topic - that could be tweaked.

[little carbon]

Its about how solos can with that change after having efectively lost (died and the other team has safe control over the body) still waste an unreasonable amount of time for the winning team

If a timer seems to unfair for you, how about when you burn you cant self revive

[brisk timber]

Can a burning team mate be revived?
yes.
So a solo should aswell.

[spiral crane]

the max times you would need to burn is 4 but thats if people gt lucky on health bar (a separate issue i have)

[signal mural]

Yeah but can a duo teammate standup whenever he pleases after a 10s window?

[little carbon]

Does a team get a MMR reduction, no, so solos shouldnt as well
Does a team get more rewards, no, so solos shouldnt as well
This line of arguing doesnt work

[brisk timber]

Something like this would be fine if it would be for both parties.

[spiral crane]

realistically youll kill twice and burn twice then the solo will just leave lobby

[brisk timber]

Im all in for removing the MMR reduction.
And the "higher reward" is no jackpot thing. You dont go around making big $$$
Its a counter mechanic because you lose way more often.

The reward argument makes me furious

[little carbon]

No they will wait 10 minutes and then "death-cheat" out

[brisk timber]

Everyon thinks solos are rich people swimming in money

[signal mural]

I think burning blocking self-revive would be great. If you want to give them the chance then let Salveskin have a solo subtext to allow self-revive.

[little carbon]

Well, thats how it worked for me during the event

[cobalt seal]

Yeah the revive comparisons dont lead to anything really. Solo just plays different from teams. Thats why the revive can work different aswell

[little carbon]

That would jsut reintroduce the problem tho

[brisk timber]

Yea but the event was the event. You had death cheat and self revive was new, people couldnt handle it.

[little carbon]

I could do the same on test

alhough id argue that hardly counts

[spiral crane]

and death cheat isnt a thing anymore so it fine bring a trap

like people are upset but solos need 4 perks to play the game

[little carbon]

Thats the thing, they dont need them. You can solo fine without them and make profit

[spiral crane]

necro, salve skin, magpie, resilience

[signal mural]

True but then they need more perk points and it hinders a build but allows them the option still.

[brisk timber]

I just feel like people come here and think they start a legit discussion about balancing self revive
But in the end its always arguments that would totaly kill self revive and make it impossible for the solo to use it.

Like the 10sec timer in itselfe is fuckin laughable to begin with
Any shotgun/xbow/dualies player will never use selfrevive because if he does people stand over him with a knife already.

And its that kind of "balance" that doesnt lead to anything.
Than we dont need to add stuff if the solution is to make it unusable.

Same with "deny self revive when burning" wtf is that

[spiral crane]

but thats not the point money is not a real factor in this game you already lose more than you win as solo anyways

[little carbon]

But then you have to do the whole waiting game with every body again.
Reminds me of the good old dead hard issue in dbd if anyone plays that game

[little carbon]

No, you dont, if you do it right you make a lot more money as a solo than as a team

[spiral crane]

yes and if you run full mosin team youll make way more

like solo's already have to jump through more hoops than team players let them have self rez its not as big of a deal as people think

[brisk timber]

Maybe we should just seperate Trios and Solos 😄
i feel like its mostly the trio players that cant handle it

[little carbon]

The end-timer wouldnt make it unusable. What do you think is the strong point of self revive?
its being able to revive after trading with someone and continuing to fight and being able to revive after dying long range in a good position.
Both of those situations wouldnt get disrupted at all by en end timer or the burn thing.
And i specifically said that i think the 10 seconds could be reduced to 5

[brisk timber]

(that was a joke ofc...well half serious)

[cobalt seal]

I agree with Rakki. These restrictions dont seem to add anything but frustration. Im pretty convinced that once this goes live people will adjust

[little carbon]

Its not about them not having it, its about implementing it in a way where it doesnt slow down or introduce annoyance for teams, so that it is fun to play and play against

[signal mural]

Because they have to...

Adjust or quit playing... most will adjust if they are still around anyway...

[brisk timber]

tbh i would rather have a strong fast self revive that has a 1time limit than a fuckin 10sec self revive that can be spammed and is good for bushwookie sniper mains

right now thats the case and its sad

[spiral crane]

i feel like the problem people are having with this isnt actually about self rez and is about other things like snipers and trade windows

[brisk timber]

Yea and the 4-5 burning thing

its a time sink

[spiral crane]

4 is the max

[little carbon]

Its mostly the fact that some salty solos can waste a lot of time by timing their revives. Its not all of course, but it does come up too often.

[signal mural]

4 Rezzes but 5 deaths...

[spiral crane]

taking outburning out 1 guy takes less then fighting a full team by quite a bit

[brisk timber]

Imagine a sniper main with bounty 😄

https://tenor.com/view/unlimited-power-star-wars-gif-10270127

[little carbon]

Thats why i like a solution that forces both sides to act, which keeps the game moving. This can be achieved by lowering the time the solo has to wait before reviving, which forces the team to act.
And by limiting the time the solo can revive they cant just durdle around and make the team waste a billion years

[brisk timber]

red skull self revive 😄

[little carbon]

While still allowing the two strongest points of selfres without any power loss

[brisk timber]

Still i think a max amount > max time

[little carbon]

Why?

[brisk timber]

because burning is a mechanic i like

[little carbon]

Especially considering that a max time also solves the issue of self res being used as death cheat

[brisk timber]

you just dont want to be bothered >:)

[little carbon]

Then make it the burning thing

Honestly, make burning block any necro

[brisk timber]

Man thats the thing. teams can this too

[little carbon]

be it team necro or solo necro

[brisk timber]

you want a artificial restriction that takes away a feature that teams have aswell

If people dont burn a solo let him get away after 10min who cares

Its your responsibility to burn him

And if he can get up llike 1 time. man shoot him and then hes done for good

[little carbon]

Ill say it again. Burning those solos takes significantly longer than burning a teammate

Also consider that most times you dont have to burn a team

Because tracking people is easy

[signal mural]

Fire rounds that kill a hunter or ignite them before death should continue to burn the downed Hunter.

[brisk timber]

Yep. Same as when somebody revive he should keep on burning. And if he dies, he keeps on burning aswell.

[green moat]

@undone star you might be onto something with having avto have its own ammo pool, the game currently has "broken" ammo pool mechanics when somene uses avto + 2 sparks pistols + 4 ammo crates. It's basically like having a gattling gun that can snipe.

[signal mural]

That might actually marginally increase the freq. of Incindiary & DB.

[brisk timber]

Burning need to be put out actively.

[little carbon]

And if you like burning, then just have necro, any form of necro, be stopped by a burn

[spiral crane]

its the best change they could make along with no clip reloads

[little carbon]

Altough from a game design perspective, a time limit would most likely be the best solution because it turns solo necro into a feature that has a specific focus

[signal mural]

Yeah, if fire worked that way a self-revive being blocked by fire wouldn't come in the question.

[little carbon]

If people have an issue with the full auto spam, they could remove the full auto and have it just be the 3-shot bursts. This would basically change nothing for the gun in the hands of a skilled player,
but potentially reduce its effectiveness in the hands of lesser skilled players

I think that would do more than removing the clip reload.

[spiral crane]

the gun is mainly a problem in the hands of skilled players thats the point

[signal mural]

What if using the Avtomat automatically allowed teams of 3 and disabled skillbased MM? Ha!

[spiral crane]

the clip reload just means you cant fill back up so quick giving it a larger downside overall

[little carbon]

Idk, what i always hear here on the discord is that it supposedly allows noobs to magically kill skilled players

[spiral crane]

sure about as much duelies does

[spiral crane]

i find most people in here are 3-4 star

[little carbon]

Honestly, i have seem a few people who invested thousands of hours into that gun do some crazy shit with it, but the same goes for people who invested the same time into any other weapon. I have seen a guy who invested way too much into the shotbolt and just snipes people with it across the whole compound with basically rifle accuracy

[little carbon]

I do believe so

[signal mural]

One would hope considering it is the majority of the bell curve.

[spiral crane]

make is special ammo give it a extra 5 in reserves and remove clip reloads would solve any big issues with THE GUN

long ammo has separate issues

[little carbon]

And i also do believe that people who reach 6 star purely through aim with lower strategic prowess have a bigger issue with the avtomat since positioning is so vital to counterplayingg it

[spiral crane]

eh long ammo is very strong is positioning only means so much when they send 30 rounds through a house in 5 sec

[little carbon]

I think special is a problem because there arent enough boxes around. Leave the ammo as is, disallow sharing on the avto and give it like 10 in reserve with a recovery of 5 to 7 from boxes.
This is still a lot weaker than avto plus dual uppercuts ever was

[little carbon]

There is enough impenetrable cover or multiple layers of cover. Long ammo isnt all powerful in pen

And people tend to repeek the same angle in succession a bit too aggressively generally, which is also quite bad against the avto

[spiral crane]

cool its supposed to be a meme weapon like bomblance which i enjoy also onyl thing long cant pen is hey thick stone and log piles

[little carbon]

I think its supposed to be more on the nitros level

Theoretically so is the bomblance, it just suffers from the fact that melee just isnt that good in a shooter that has shotguns. They are trying to improve on the lance with special ammo tho

[spiral crane]

that is according to the game its self also long ammo is super strong and need some downsides

[little carbon]

You could give the avto its own ammotype, that just isnt long, but also isnt special.
Which would explain why it doesnt share then.
This could also be used to give it a strong damage drop past like 50m

[spiral crane]

i feel like have 6 bursts of 3 shots is fine man

that puts in on the same line as nitro for ammo

[little carbon]

The nitro is a lot stronger tho, considering it is actually accurate at range. If you are not bad at aiming the nitro outperforms or equals the avto at every distance

And you would recover less for the avto then you would for the nitro if we count a burst as a bullet

Limiting the ammo too much also would incentivize camping with the avto more becasue people are going to be afraid to use their shots

You also dont want to make too big of a change to any given feature. What you propose would cut the efficiency of the avto by a lot, definitely more than 70%

[spiral crane]

they already camp with avto

[tribal wyvern]

Tbh I'd take a campier Avto over what it can do right now.

[little carbon]

Its a lot less than people actually playing with it, at least in high ELO

[tribal wyvern]

But 15/5 special ammo would be alright.

[little carbon]

With special it should be at least 15/15

[spiral crane]

nitro has larger damage drop off too

[spiral crane]

no shot

[little carbon]

Its still a cut over 50% of what you get now

[tribal wyvern]

At that point you're not really doing much to the Avto.

[little carbon]

Yes you do

[tribal wyvern]

You're bringing it back to avto/Dual uppercut type of ammo

[little carbon]

No you are not, consider that you cant refuel it from normal boxes

[tribal wyvern]

And 2 ammo boxes you're fine

Every resupply + ammo boxes would refill it

resupply point*

[spiral crane]

you are taking 1 mag from it as it is now by your math thats 33% less efficiency

[little carbon]

You arent factoring in the rate of normal ammo box to special ammo box

Which is kinda crucial

Id rather see a nerf to ammo boxes at the same time, as that does contribute to a generally more aggressive playstyle as aswell, beasue it makes control ovedr boxes more important

[spiral crane]

thats ok because its way too strong as is and theres plenty of special boxes make it refill 4 off one found in world box

[little carbon]

If it actually is too strong at the moment then you cut it down by like 10% and see how it performs.

[tribal wyvern]

It was to strong with dual uppercut, now it got heavily buffed

with spark

[spiral crane]

making it special is the same exact thing they did to the dolch and its fine

[tribal wyvern]

Avto should have limited use

[spiral crane]

on god

[tribal wyvern]

Not a spray n pray

[little carbon]

It isnt as broken as people believe. Most people just dont want to think and learn how to play against it.
balance wise the Krag is much more overtuned than the avto

[tribal wyvern]

yes it is, i've used it alot myself

Its a guaranteed like 10+kills before i die & lose it

not in just one game

[spiral crane]

its 134 damage it one taps the chest if you have been downed once

[little carbon]

Because most people die to it and then go like "ehh, avto killed me" instead of thinking about the death and learning. The gun wasnt really popular before sparks pistols, so people didnt use it as much

[spiral crane]

the krag is objectively the weakest bolt action long because its 124 damage

[little carbon]

Its damage is not the point. Its the firerate

[spiral crane]

thats nice if you can get a follow up when you catch someone in a bad spot

[little carbon]

It sucks for people below and at the lower end of 5 i would say, but above its really strong

[spiral crane]

people in upper 5/6 still just use mosin 90% of the time

[tribal wyvern]

Well it 100% was before uppercut got price increased.

Now it's cheaper than it used to be by like 100$

[spiral crane]

having 10 less damage is a major change of break points in damage and is less reliable for kills than a mosin

[tribal wyvern]

Uppercut was 275 right? before increase

[little carbon]

It still wasnt as popular back then

[little carbon]

yes

[tribal wyvern]

It was lol

What you mean xd

It has always been a popular choice in higher brackets

It has exponentially increased now as even 4 stars run it.

But it was popular

[little carbon]

You saw like one every few games. Generally a lot more nitros then avtos

[tribal wyvern]

I heard 1 atleast every other game. Didn't always run into it because of map breakup.

Now tho

[little carbon]

What region?

[tribal wyvern]

the difference is that regardless of mmr i still hear it often

EU

[little carbon]

Weird

[spiral crane]

in the higher brackets they dont care about the cost is just so efficient to have dual sparks

[tribal wyvern]

it essentially went from popular in high mmr to popular in more mmr brackets

[little carbon]

Might be a bit of bias on both of our sides. You might remember it a bit more because you dont like playing against it and i remember it less because i dont care to play against it

[spiral crane]

^^ and its in everyone of my game

[tribal wyvern]

I like playing against it because it gives me a chance to get it for free

Since i prestige, no avto 😦

I love using it

[little carbon]

I stopped picking them up, i am full, cant store it, since i am collecting dolches on my roster

almost done with having 49 hunters with 4 dolches each

all contraband

[spiral crane]

on average ill get with my friends we play like 6-8 games and it will be in all but 1

[little carbon]

Recently on EU we have like 1 every other match when we play, sometimes the odd triple avto team

Sometimes 2, but enough matches without one

[spiral crane]

and its not about dying to it, its about not having a choice in how we have to play you have a avto shot at you and youre forced to play a certain way

[tribal wyvern]

That goes for all weps tho, can't bumrush a shotgun with ur mosin

But ye Avto is just so broken atm & you can shoot with it like a normal mosin using darks ight

dark sight

[little carbon]

If you are good thats how you always play tho. You adapt to your enemy. Just forcing to play "your loadout" gives you a huge disadvantage. Hunt benefits a lot from thinking and adapting

[spiral crane]

you can play many ways v all weapon types and you can play long ammo close if you have movement but avto is oppressive

[little carbon]

Thats a bug and should be fixed. Same goes for something that breaks the avtos efficiency at long range as a counter to the recoil script

[little carbon]

Yes, but the movement needs to be right. Friend of mine recently wiped a triple avto team close range with a nagant. Movement, good cover, good "crosshair" placement

[spiral crane]

avto at close is like having a crown with 15 rounds just lay in you only have to hit 2 times

[little carbon]

Its worse than a crown, because you have to ads. A crown, or pretty much any shotgun, is at a decent advantage against an avto at close range

[tribal wyvern]

Well Crown is only okeyish to 10m. Avto can blast you up to 50+m

[little carbon]

Well yes, but thats a bit of the identity of the avto. Its good at a lot of ranges. (Past 50 to 70 should be reduced, its mostly script and a handful of really good players past that anyways), but it gets outperformed by other weapons at most of those ranges. Close range it looses against shotguns and longer ranges it looses against rifles

In terms of efficiency that is

At 50m i'd rather pick the winfield than the avto in the direct duel

I think its sweetspot is around 20 to 40 meters. Thats the area in which it doesnt get outclassed easily. Although at the edges of that range i think its relatively equal in power to shotguns/rifles

[tribal wyvern]

It challenges shotguns, it challenges long ammo & it dominates the area inbetween. Thats my general issue.
And i've used it alot, I know what it can do. It should be 15/5 special ammo.

And I don't know if this conversation will go much further. Hopefully the complaining kills the gun as it killed Dolch.

I'm not loosing sleep over a 1890s assault rifle being nerfed to the bottom of the barrel.

[little carbon]

I dont think it dominates, you can contend even within its sweet spot. Its not like its 75/25 for one side to win

And the dolch aint dead, people just dont play it anymore because they think it sucks now. The nerfs basically did nothing to the gun in the hands of a good player

[tribal wyvern]

Ofcourse it did. It's barely any better than Officer. For like 8 times the price

You get like a few meters longer 2 tap range, thats bout it

[little jackal]

would actually be funny if Crytek organized a tournament and we'd all see the meta shine

[tribal wyvern]

If it makes them change the meta a bit,that'd be nice

[little carbon]

There are tournaments that are about scoring points in matches that are organised by the community. Funnily enough the avto wasnt really picked there.
The goal was to get bounties, simple as that

[tribal wyvern]

Well cuz Avto draws attention

Still long ammo gets used in those

[little carbon]

You think? whenever i play the gun it seems to be the opposite. I shoot and no one wants to contend the bounty

[tribal wyvern]

Depends on the mmr.

[little carbon]

High EU

Sometimes 5.5* EU if we play with a friend of ours who is new

[queen jungle]

@icy bronze Thank you for your contribution, although I would recommend splitting it up for better readability and maybe posting the second part to #feedback since it seems to fit better in there.

Console players are heard and certainlyly not ignored, I can promise you that 🙂

[hot vigil]

@raw tapir not that your idea is bad, smokes could be cool, but Devs came out ages ago saying it was too complicated to pull off due to engine issues and AI mobs. Granted, that was ages ago, so maybe we can get it now

[tribal wyvern]

Smokes also has a tendency to be clientsided, which means you can see nothing & the guy got a smoke that shows him more.

[hot vigil]

Also smoke grenade variant for Bomblance or Crossbow, leaving a trail of smoke, so you could make a small wall of smoke, would be cool.

[queen jungle]

Smoke effects being the same for everybody would be a must-have feature these days, I agree

[hot vigil]

Eyup and making smokes server side is apparently also a pain.

[queen jungle]

The SpyGlass should have some sort of manual range-finder to make it more popular imo

[raw tapir]

I have faith in them!

[true bobcat]

For something that takes up an entire tool slot that offers nothing but "see farther in a fisheye lens" even a range finder is incredibly limited. All that tells you is good luck with your crossbow or bow... I guess? Most hunters use long ammo so it's not really helpful in that regard. The reason why I offer it to even do something remotely powerful is that it takes an entire utility slot that is already a heavily contested slot as if you play in groups that 3 slots are already being used. The last being something already niche be it throwables, traps, or a derringer.

[hot vigil]

Good old days pre-scopes. When the SpyGlass had relevance

[true bobcat]

Shoot @hot vigil even back then we would joke that it would just allow you to see your headshot coming sooner. 😂

[queen jungle]

How are three slots already used? It is perfectly viable to take non-meta loadouts, personally I usually bring Medkit, Flashlight, Fusees and something else depending on group constellation.

[hot vigil]

Norm is Medkit, Melee tool and chokes when playing in teams.

[queen jungle]

Yes, but it's not necessary. There are so many tools that are viable to take and especially in pre-made teams I'd expect people to bring different things to cover as many possible needs that may arise in a match.

[true bobcat]

What on earth are people needing the flashlight for? Emersion? It would make sense if it worked like a tac-light and partially blinded hunters or something.

[hot vigil]

Then you haven't gotten downed as the only guy who brought chokes.

[queen jungle]

Flashlight directly increases skill. Just ask @ripe basalt

[queen jungle]

There was a time before chokes. They are convenient, but not necessary.

[hot vigil]

And chokes got buffed to tools and comes in pairs now for a reason.

So no tool are """necessary""", but there are just some tools that have way more relevance and utility to them.

[true bobcat]

That would mean the Spy Glass could be buffed to a point of being relevant. All it offers right now is roll play potential.

[little carbon]

If it were to offer enhanced dark sight it would be the most mandatory tool

[ripe basalt]

True story, years ago I told Finall that the Flashlight was good so he used it. ( I was joking ). Finall ended up using it for awhile and was performing much better.

Entirely had nothing to do with the Flashlight

But fun story

[queen jungle]

||Oh right, we're not supposed to tell people.|| Yes, it was just me being more confident in my abilities.

[true bobcat]

@little carbon what would you do to make it a relevant tool?

[queen jungle]

Having a manual range finder would make it valuable for long-range snipers.

[little jackal]

(not really)

[true bobcat]

So a moving target that is over 150M is moving further away with you swapping to a range finder to see how far he is then swapping back to your already scoped weapon that has no markings or notches to determine anything like drop off?

[little carbon]

Thats difficult, Finalls idea, while interesting, wouldnt really turn it into a meaningful tool as rangefinding is not really something you have to do as a good sniper. (And if you are not good you arent going to hit those long range shots anyways)

[little jackal]

just make it built-in ability and be done with it

flashlight too

[little carbon]

The drop off that doesnt exist

[true bobcat]

Well bullet drop true, but isn't damage drop is sorta a thing? But that's hardly the point.

[little carbon]

@neon hare You missed. The first shoot was to the left, you were aimpunched right before the second so it went over. Te third one hit clientside but might have been invalidated server side, as i didnt hear a trade.

[little carbon]

Yes, damage drop is a thing, but at those ranges you kinda just need to know whether you are within headshot range or not and unless you are pushing that range you usually can tell without needing to rangefind

[tribal wyvern]

iirc hitmarkers means its validated

[little carbon]

not entirely sure, and unless someone an quote a dev on that i dont think we should assume that as given

[tribal wyvern]

I hardly think someone would have sucha quote.
But i've seen discussions with mods where they mentioned that is how it's validated.

[little carbon]

Actually listening again with actual headphones, the hit just wasnt a headshot

[tribal wyvern]

Also @true bobcat please chime in with your expertise instead of emojing me like it's a Facebook reaction post.

[true bobcat]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be incredibly limited. But it is something that they have to swap to and actively use then cycle back to a weapon positioning changes quickly in a game like hunt.

[true bobcat]

Every like a hunter lives another day?

[tribal wyvern]

Ye pretty much.

[neon hare]

I watched it picture for picture and the last shot was a headshot but my enemy dont died thats my problem not that the other shots missd. And the last shot make a hitmarker on the head sorry but that is bullshit

[little carbon]

The last shot actually wasnt a headshot, it didnt make the headshot sound

[tribal wyvern]

In 1.12 all these questions will be answered.

With the recap

The only questions would be "why didn't it hit?" But people have been investigating suchs videos for ages now.
Frame by frame.

[little carbon]

And looking at it frame by frame, you veered down a bit with your gun, so you probably hit the neck, which belongs to the chest hitbox

The other guy also might have started a jump which would move his hitboxes upwards a bit

[little carbon]

Its still incredibly powerful just for getting information on whether a team is somewhere. A more limited approach could be for it to increase the range of sense-type traits, eg poison sense, vigilant, blade seer?.
I dont think serpent or necro should be a part of it, that would make it too strong

[true bobcat]

Maybe just give it sense traits in general without the investment? Otherwise its just a Spy Glass with dark sight.

[brisk timber]

it somewhat does. If you straight look into the flashlight you cant really see the hunter anymore
for any other angle its more of a help for the enemy to track you tho

[knotty ore]

Range finder for sniping? By the time you and your partner set up and he is laying next to you with his arm around you, caressing your nipples gently with his non-dominant hand... I'm going to extract. Most of the time your targets don't hang around long enough for you to be able to scope in a range and have your partner whisper sweet sweet windage into your eat.

[unborn dagger]

I thought that's what it did.

[little carbon]

@tiny cobalt you already have time to get to the banish if you move efficient and fast. Also considering that you never need to cross the full map, as by the time any banish happens you should already no longer be too close to map edge or a corner.

[tiny cobalt]

It is not odd to get into a fight early or have the team finding the boos at a distant compound use a sticky bomb. When this happens, it can be very difficult to reach the bounties before they gain a lad to extraction which is often nearby.

[little carbon]

The banishment time is enough to cross the map. If you are in a fight when a cross map banish happens you should try to disengage.

Also keep in mind that other teams should be around the map that should also try to stop the bounty from extracting which should buy you some extra time if you spawn cross map and lost time.

[glass shuttle]

@tiny cobalt great suggestion mate
I also had it in mind that you need 3 clues to spawn the boss and first person to get 3 clues spawns it which would make people actually have to roam around the map more

But would probably have the boss spawn at the same places alot of the time

[ornate raptor]

Sounds like a way to punish people for killing the boss quickly or quietly

[little jackal]

if everybody's on the same terms, how is that punishing? the issue is that not a lot of people are willing to cross an entire map to get to the boss late

or don't enjoy it

I personally don't, and I wish every team had to collect the clues, even if they spawned at the boss

fights happening on the way to the boss, kinda like organically, are way more fun than sieges

boiling it down further, I don't think I enjoy anything related to bosses tbh

rootin tootin: showdown

[knotty ore]

Make avtomat fire derringer ammo, it'll be kinda funny

I honestly think Avto/Nitro should be world drops. You can't buy them, you have to find them in high loot (somewhere middle of map) areas and extract with them.

[unborn dagger]

Yeah I'm definitely not a fan of that

I personally just hate explosives dealing so much damage that it can just go past the damage resistance threshold.

[ornate raptor]

There's always the option of ignoring it or not staying at the edge of the map

[ornate raptor]

It actually is punishing since you cant kill the boss quickly or quietly anymore since everyone will be on the same terms

[icy bronze]

@wanton dock Long ammo is already a difficult topic in hunt. Most are saying that long ammo is the meta and is always a constant factor in OP load-outs. I think we should have some more medium and compact variants that can compete with the long ammo rifles. If you just keep adding long ammo variants, everybody keeps playing long ammo. That way ppl stop using “normal” weapons and keep playing long ammo weapons only. Example: I banished the boss yesterday with a friend in Arden, we both had a lemat carbine. Then, 2 separate teams show up. 1 team from salters, 1 team from prison, with of course long ammo rifles. They kept there distance and didn’t do shit to each other except blasting wall bangs towards us in the middle. Closest extraction for is was hemlock, so nothing close. We peaked every now and then just to get shot from long angles hardly to be seen with normal iron sights. We ended up dying because we pushed one team and the other team shot us in the back while fighting the other team. There was no option to wait and camp the boss lair because they kept there distance and never came with in our possible kill range. So we had to push them and they kept backing up because they had long ammo with longer reload time.(i dont blame them). But this is an example and i can give you many more. So in my opinion, for the speed of playing hunt, no more long ammo shit that can 1 tap you if you miss 1 small hp bar. Its no skill waiting around with long ammo and be passive. Thats my view on long ammo players and we dont need to encourage them with that playstyle

[signal mural]

@The DM#0536 Run it Again critique - just use your Loadout slots. They are pretty much exactly the same thing. It's a few clicks & not worth resources to make another UI button.

@distant flume Depleted uranium special ammo for the Avtomat?

[lilac jungle]

long ammo gang

[queen jungle]

@wanton dock
I really want to upvote but the number are so fucking nice rn

[queen jungle]

Hehe lets go

[worthy knoll]

Ah yes, disengage so the enemy Team ist in your Back and shoot you more easily....

[ornate raptor]

There's a difference between properly disengaging and outright showing your back

[peak rampart]

Made me reconnect for zero reason. Took 15 minutes and still couldn’t get back in. Close game. Opened game. Tried again. Same shit.

[mint phoenix]

@sick quarry I think running into five-star-three-star-players depends on the time of day - at least on EU servers. If you play during the day 3* players will behave as expected with very seldom exceptions. after midnight pretty much anyone plays like 5* and has 10k hours.

[worthy knoll]

And in what way is it smart to have people in your Back?

[ornate raptor]

No reason to actually keep them on your back, do something about it

[little carbon]

The disengaging team can always move faster than the pursuing team (excluding any involvement of bounties) since they dont have to worry about pushing into a team. And you dont just turn around and run, rather you steadily increase distance while still taking shots at the other team if they pursue

[wanton dock]

I think a big thing to consider is that there really wasn't a market for medium ammo irl. You can complain about gun diversity, but there weren't very many medium ammo weapons irl. All three medium ammo rifles are technically shooting what we'd consider long cartridges with the Centennial shooting a bigger round than the Uppercut by functional technicality. There's still things like 30-30 and 40-60 that are real cartridges that haven't been utilized in the game yet, but by the 1890s, rifle cartridges were getting bigger so the "Medium Ammo" pool was thinning. In terms of meta prevalence, I understand the concern but a lot of that lies deeper in ammo balancing itself. If the Vetterli were long ammo everyone would use it. It has insane handling, fast fire rate, good sights, but rough penetration and muzzle velocity compared to a Krag or Mosin. Like every Medium ammo weapon fills a very versatile niche that 3-4* players take advantage of often. Each gun feels good especially as we have the Cent shorty on the horizon. Medium ammo has good quality and fun guns but the ammo itself has too many issues for it to feel "meta"

[little carbon]

In the way that you have to get to the bounty. Of course you have to remember that the other team is going to arrive shortly after you, so you should rotate into a position where you dont get instantly sandwiched. In the end you want to move in a way that maximises potential engagements between other team by forcing them into each other.

Its of course not the ideal situation, having to worry about the team in your back, but if its the hand you have been dealt, you can work with it. Its not this impossible situation that some people make it out to be.

[worthy knoll]

While Not Impossible Most people will still choose to kill the enemies and then either go to the Boss or leave the Match.

[little carbon]

I really dont think we should call the vetterli sights "good sights". They are absolutely workable, but they just fall short when compared to a winfield or a mosin

[little carbon]

That is fine. But then it is their fault that they arent getting a reward out of the match

If they miss the bounty because of that

[frosty garnet]

@astral cradle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I'd love to see another option for controller layout where crouch and melee are swapped. This is the ONLY game where I can't  use R3 (PlayStation controller) to crouch. It not only screws up my experience in Hunt but in every other game when I switch over to play another shooter.  In my opinion that would be a HUGE quality of life improvement for controller players```

[little jackal]

@rotund oasis alert traps trigger barrels on both sides iirc

[rotund oasis]

Oh. My entire playstyle has been a lie. Thanks for telling me.

[brisk timber]

no? noo....?

[little jackal]

worth double-checking in training

[brisk timber]

really?

[hot vigil]

Only thing I know is that, while being quite hard to pull off, if you place the alarm tripmine right you can explode the hanging barrels.

As the flare can ignite it

[unique osprey]

Alerts indeed work either way I tried it to confirm

[unique osprey]

While yes the traps work either side I like the suggestion for letting us hide traps easier

[little jackal]

yeah

[crude aspen]

@unique osprey now your suggestion about mini red barrel is awesome, would be the perfect balance between powerful and memable (i'm thinking about a chain reactions setup by a full trio with 4 barrels per player... or even more memeworthy a tower of red barrels)

[frosty garnet]

@modest atlas, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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A smaller version of the nitro```

[final lion]

i cant wait to attempt to play with my 3 star friend just starting out going duos into trios and fighting full 5 star teams decked out with snipers camping roofs cause yalls mmr system is trash. and you refused to server lock so we get to fight people from cambodia\

make it make sense

[empty wharf]

how about we make the bow good again? crytek is intent on making the absolute worst portion of their player base the priority. pathetic.

[brisk timber]

Oh my god your so right
The bow really could use some love

1. Give it more poison arrows and reduce the price. For the amount of times they get stuck somewhere measly 6(7) arrows is just not enough. Youre often coming into a fight with already 1-2 arrows lost because of cryengine™️

2. Its ridiculous that hundred hands increases the drawtime for its +damage. Its not even stated in the info text. A big Xbow with boltthrower is just as fast as a bow. A bow - a weapon where you just have to take the arrow and shoot.

[hot vigil]

Issue is that bow buffs you are suggestion are actually how the bow was before nerfs :b

Poison arrows used to be a straight upgrade with no reduction in ammo.
And hundred hands increased the damage dealt by a huge margin.

[brisk timber]

Then it was good.
Right now its okay if you like to play it - but its a bit meme.

[brisk timber]

Yea i dont think they need to be 8 per slot but like comon. atleast 5 per slot would be nice

[hot vigil]

Issue with the bow is that it is kinda locked balance-wise to the crossbow.
A lot of people felt that the crossbow was irrelevant at the bow release as the bow simply just did everything better than crossbow.

It is the same case with the bornheim/dolch, those two guns are tied together in buff/nerfs.

[brisk timber]

Well the xbow has the range, the insta shot, the shotbolt and strong bleed.
So theres enough upside

[hot vigil]

Sure crossbow comes with the upside and I do agree some of the nerfs of the bow was very much people not understanding fully the new toy.
But most of all, think it would be healthy doing a slight rework of both of the weapons. Firstly give crossbow the straight shot over the bow, bc that is kinda.. well... what a crossbow is good at.

And then look at some damage/stats in general.

[brisk timber]

Nope we dont do that. >_>

I xbow or bow that cant kill in 1 shot is useless

[hot vigil]

Even give bow more bleed (even serrated arrows) as the bolts of a crossbow are more "clean".

[hot vigil]

Look at stats is not = nerf damage.

[brisk timber]

ok than im relieved

i was sensing bad intentions :))

[hot vigil]

Ah no no, none of these weapons needs to be nerfed lmao.

[brisk timber]

Well i dont think this will be of any importance anyway right now because bow already is so niche that theres not enough echo for a buff - unfortunately.

[hot vigil]

They just need to be looked over as crossbow got created YEARS before the bow, so now the bow is kinda squeezed into the rooster of weapons, but struggles as those two weapons should have been designed alongside each others.

It would be like if crytek added a new (non-special) ammo type now after all these years.

[brisk timber]

Im mostly fine with bow though
If the ammo wouldnt always get lost the only buff it would need would be a bit faster drawtime

because thats the only thing that really holds it too much back for the "Push" meta

[hot vigil]

Yeah arrows going awol is quite silly.

[brisk timber]

man it triggers me so hard. sometimes they just laying on flat ground, i can see them

but i just cant retrieve em

[hot vigil]

Same reason why I don't use throwing axes anymore :(

[unborn smelt]

No they never were...
Poison arrows hit testserver with an ammo count of 3 already

[hot vigil]

Ah- really? I could have swore they came in with more.
Oh well, can't be right about everything :)

[ornate raptor]

#game-ideas message
A better system would be one that's directly tied to your prestige count, for example if you're prestige 30 then you have everything up to bloodline rank 30 permanently unlocked or at least just the base weapons.

[hot vigil]

Or a % increase to weapon unlocks based on prestige rank, like 0.5% exp increase per prestige rank.

[ornate raptor]

The only weapon unlocks I can see being a pain are the duster and knife variants, the others feel fine

[hot vigil]

Martini Henry is a chore, Conversion Pistol too, All of the winnies.
I've prestiged 25 times now and the charm wears off around prestige 10.
Special ammo bloated it a lot and greatest issue is that each prestige runs makes you gravitate towards 2-3 guns.

[ornate raptor]

Wouldnt be that much of a chore if you are gravitating towards 2-3 guns

[signal mural]

Yeah, because after 10 there's very seldom a reward. The Bornheim tree is a real chore, or poison trap & c. bomb...

I would love for Prestige to see a meaningful overhaul.

[ornate raptor]

#game-ideas message
A roaming horde would be nice

[steel comet]

The weapon unlock trees are only really annoying when things go bad.

If you get a kill or two before you die then it doesn't feel that grindy.
Having helpful teammates can also help, makes you unlock everything in no time.

Weapons i usually ask for help with is sparks in order to unlock the sparks pistol.

[signal mural]

The reason I down vote, & why I think a lot of people down vote, is because it'd be a technical nightmare for minimal effect. The AI often has proximity spawns & AI density is also as far as I've read player dependant... Most of this is for performance-based necessity. Most hordes are easily wiped-out by fire making their 'danger' element rather tame, AI behaviors aren't consistent (AI being triggered by a Giga-Chad & they turn on a Hunter farther away who was in stealth), and they don't add much complexity to the PVP part of the game that most players are after.

[ornate raptor]

True

[frosty garnet]

@iron trench, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

That's cool... i'm a Springfield enjoyer, i wish they made this and also high velocity special ammo for Springfields...```

[frosty garnet]

@viscid root, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Sounds like good idea but i guess it would be to similar to the martini henry ironside but without the disadvantage of the huge magazine and more shots so martine henry ironside might get useless in comparison to this gun```

[iron trench]

@viscid root
Martini Ironside is already useless...
Martini is probably the worst gun in this game... i made a suggestion about it a while ago...

The Martini Henry needs a muzzle velocity buff (for me at least to 490 m/s);
and the Ironside needs a better model: that huge ass steel box at the side is not accurate and made playing and aiming this gun always a bad experience... i tried the ironside once and never again...
There is too much stuff blocking the view that really doesn't exist in the real life version, and the magazine is positioned too high as you can see in those images:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524577494863708180/1054548450315874325/An_attempt_to_modernise_the_Martini_Henry_rifle_with_firearm_1.gif

[hot vigil]

To be fair the 400m/s is true to the real life version of the Martini Henry, it would weird to change that.
Also Martini is not the worst gun in the game, just very misunderstood and have a skill requirement to use proper.

[frosty garnet]

@iron trench, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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I wish they reworked the Deadeye scopes... i see no reason at all to use them...```

[vital drum]

Ironside slaps

And actually, left peek getting fixed in 1.12 is a direct buff to it, because you can now peek right confidently

[hot vigil]

Amazing

[iron trench]

It makes sense...

[vital drum]

Also I don't think it's actually lower in the back part IRL. It seems to be angled a bit differently, but the height at the back is still huge.

[iron trench]

Yes.. that's the point

The magazine front is blocking the view

[vital drum]

Part of martini's appeal is its price. Regular one is mostly competitive due to its reload speed, which partially is negated by the fact that the most effective strategy is to not repeek at that point. Ironside solves that.

btw part of the bar that blocks the view is already crudely sawn off, which is a neat touch

[iron trench]

Well... i'm pretty sure the 400 m/s muzzle velocity just depends on how much gunpowder the cartridge has... + condensed gunpowder = + muzzle power 🙂

[hot vigil]

Also for $132 you get the best melee variant bundled with the MH

[vital drum]

I use martini quite regularly. It ain't no mosin, but I never have problems feeling competitive with it.

I'm a fan of the sights and if paired with silenced nagant+hv ammo, they have almost the same muzzle velocity (410 and 400)

So they're good for muscle memory

Plus long ammo pen with very high damage and decent ammo reserve is a very nice combo.

[iron trench]

For me, trying to hit moving targets with martini henry at 60 + meters is always an awful experience... i rather use a Winfield.

[iron trench]

Now imagine that with at least 490 muzzle velocity 🤩

[hot vigil]

Well, going by the bullet models in game it seems to be a late version of the .577/450 Martini–Henry, which had a m/s of 410m/s. So we ain't really missing out on a lot.

[iron trench]

You could also think about my idea as just a balance change for making the gun more fun to play...👍

[hot vigil]

Tho later down the line, they did change to the .303 British Mk VII SAA Ball cartridge.
Which is...

Basically Spitzer.

[iron trench]

That i confess is too much... would make this gun too strong...

[hot vigil]

See the sentiment, tho I disagree that "better = more fun". I love the Henry because it is a weapon that comes with strenghts and weaknesses, compared to the Sparks and especially Mosin Nagant.
Think it is interesting to have downsides to weapons and having to adapt your playstyle around them.

[signal mural]

I avoided the Martini for ages. Now it is one of my mainstays and I am again excited for 1.12 and the very promising Single Shot Reload Bug fix.

[hot vigil]

There were also a bullet that had 610m/s but that was made as an anti-airship bullet.

[signal mural]

Honestly fixing that SSR bug will be game changing for me.

[dapper schooner]

Also with normal ammo it has the same velocity as the Winfield with normal ammo. So you can train your muscle memory in regards to leading your shot with the Winfield.
To me that's one of the pros of the martini

[hot vigil]

I've done plenty of long range ironsight Martini kills to confirm the rifle ain't bad.

But the true secret is ||the low muzz makes up for my bad aim and hunters basically walks into to my shots I would otherwise have missed!||

[signal mural]

It's not a Buff it's a sidegrade.... wah, wah, wah...
I'll see myself out.

[iron trench]

I always go for High Velocity when using Winfields.. i'm maybe wrong, but i even see the the Springfield being better than a Martini with faster reload speed and more muzzle velocity... (And i didn't even mentioned the Sparks).

[hot vigil]

Ah but there is where you are wrong, the Henry does in fact reload faster than the Springfield, bc Hunt Showdown.

Again, if you can overcome the 400m/s muzz and realize that the Martini Henry is an excellent CQC rifle I am sure you can enjoy that gun too

[dapper schooner]

Fair, it's a direct upgrade imo and if you take a pistol with HV as well ammo is not a problem. I just like the normal ammo more because you find it more often and I'm more open in my choice of secondary 💁🏻

To me the Martini just clicks. The sights are great, and I like slower muzzle velocity (probably because I like to play the crossbow as well 😛 )

[dapper schooner]

Totally agree! It's definitely more of a cqc gun.

[signal mural]

I have to say the Centennial is probably one of the rifles I really avoid.

[iron trench]

Hmmm... let me see this... one sec...

[hot vigil]

The gun I want to love, but keeps pushed to the side by other guns :(

[signal mural]

I also like that the Martini has two ammo selections. A little more versatile.

[hot vigil]

Also I had like 600h in PUBG before I got into hunt, so leading shots was kinda just a natural thing for me.

[signal mural]

Everything about it is mediocrity... damage, sights, price, ammo types, melee variant, RoF... when I actually land a headshot with it I'm surprised - like that giddy 'holy hell! That connected?!' disbelief feeling one sometimes get in Hunt.

[hot vigil]

Think the two factors that ruins the gun is:

• Vetterli can get HV ammo, so it basically took away that edge from the Cent.
• Springfield Krag Sniper now takes the space of being the fast firing sniper option from the Cent.

[iron trench]

Yea, but it is FMJ, Incendiary and Explosive...

[iron trench]

Idk man... the red is the Martini Henry stats

[hot vigil]

I know, but due to animation fuckery it have been confirmed that the Springfield takes 2.7 secs to reload and the Martini Henry takes 2.5 seconds.

I don't fault you tho, because, that is super unintuitive.

[vital drum]

I don't think reload time is a particularly useful stat in isolation, but cycling time they added on test is more interesting. 4 seconds for martini and 4.4 seconds for the springfield.

Basically includes everything from the first shot to the second

[signal mural]

Yeah, it's not a great selection. Explosive is useless. FMJ is unnecessary and adds drag. But oddly the cheap Incindiary rounds can be useful... admittedly seldom but if your gun is gonna sound like a thunderclap in a chasm then the tracers aren't gonna make any difference. I love catching people off-guard near red barrels. Or baiting fire when an ally has a decent flank.

That red barrel that spawns on Blanchett's church tower... has made for unforgettable laughs.

[dapper schooner]

Makes sense then that you like it 🙂

[hot vigil]

Ah no worries, I sucked at leading shots in PUBG and not like I'm a god gamer hitting my shots in hunt :b

[dapper schooner]

Haha, alright 😄

[hot vigil]

Thaaaat said :b

[dapper schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/the-emperors-new-groove-perfect-just-right-perfecto-okay-gif-17713931

Also the martini has the deadeye-scope, which I like a lot

[hot vigil]

It is a nice thing for the gun indeed

[brisk timber]

a really big argument is that the springfield uses medium ammo tho
that damage dropoff for such a rifle is horrendous

Its the winfield of range rifles

[iron trench]

Anyway... you won't be shooting Martini Henrys from 100 meters away (only if people are standing still)...

[brisk timber]

yea i just wanted to make the point that the springfields stats are taken with a grain of salt

[iron trench]

If you think about it... in practice the Springfield has the same damage drop off as a Uppercut but with more muzzle velocity and less penetration.

[iron trench]

With the minor difference that Springfields can 1 tap body people at 25 meters that are missing a small bar..

[brisk timber]

ok and why do we compare it with an uppercut now?

It was about the Martini

[iron trench]

You're right... my point is that the Springfield damage is as good as an Uppercut, but being faster and with only 1 shot at a time..

Let me see the Martini Henry...

[brisk timber]

#game-ideas message
The amount of screen cluttering is really a problem anyway
Like when the "Boss has been banished" shows up you cant see half the upper screen anymore

[little carbon]

Explosive can actually be decent on the martini. It has enough ammo that splitting the pool isnt too much of an issue, and if you are attacking a lair that has wooden anything (windows, doors) you can freely create a lot of angles.
And it does the same as incendiary to barrels

[signal mural]

To be fair I think I was last using explosive ammo before you could headshot with it and that might have been Uppercut specific even.

Does it destroy shutters in one hit?

[little carbon]

Pretty sure that yes

I think it destroys everything but the sliding gates in one hit

You can even hit multiple red windows if they are close enough together

[signal mural]

Hmmm I'll have to give it another go if I unlock it this go around. I've been too busy screwing around finishing up unnecessary Billy Questline challenges. Thanks for the heads-up.

[little carbon]

No worries. Just dont expect anything too powerful, its still situational and definitely works better in a team

[signal mural]

@rotund oasis Yeah, (Intrusive) Prompts should be unavailable while ADS'n. That's a good idea.

Yeah, usually if I am going explosive with a team then I'll have a Crossbow as support and have someone bring an ammo box.

I need to try out that silly RPG stuff (🏹 shooting 🧨)

[frosty garnet]

@clever egret, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

i dont know where to put this but i think we need a scrapbeak plushy```

[deep basin]

hey there, i can't play QP because i get an error message every time i try (the usual "something went wrong" error). am i the only one?

[chilly wren]

The vetterli is better in almost anything compared to springfield. It has even more ammo than the springfield, one of a few single shot weapons that are usually known for having more ammo than other weapons of their ammo type. The only thing the springfield has going for it is +80ms/s muzzle velocity and 2 more damage and slightly higher effective range. But in everything else, it is worse

[sick vault]

its the betterli for a reason

[little jackal]

the vetterli sound tho 🤮

absolutely cannot stand the weapon because of that

[dense schooner]

not bad

[safe mountain]

Remove Avtomat

[sick vault]

you want the avtomat removed because you think its OP

I want it removed because I think burst weapons are disgusting

we are not the same

[sick vault]

would the darksight vision traits also working at a shorter distance in normal vision make them too op?

[karmic barn]

getting this shit a lot starting today. quit/relaunch fixes it for me though.

[tacit falcon]

ok so if im being shot at why is it that i cant tell. its ridiculous that no noise is made until i get hit. if i get shot at irl it makes a noise. there needs to be a noise when i get shot at. a buzz or SOMETHING. bullets make noise when they go past you PLEASE make it the same in hunt

[dense schooner]

can you share a clip of what you’re experiencing?

[tacit falcon]

i didnt clip it

but i was being shot at for 30 seconds

with a lebel

and couldnt tell until i got headshot

[dense schooner]

was it a sniper from hundreds of meters away?

[jagged wagon]

If you couldn’t tell you were being shot at, how did you know it was for 30secs?

[crystal plume]

@queen jungle There's only 5 prestige exclusive skins

[queen jungle]

Understood but there is still progression with random legendary hunters and the symbols (prestige) representing time invested.

[crystal plume]

Is that really inherently bad though?

There's plenty of people who haven't prestiged once

You can get all other skins without prestiging, and the number is only as important as you make it yourself

If people decide to challenge themselves again by going back to rank 1 and going through the unlocks again, they are rewarded for it

But nothing's forcing them to do so

[queen jungle]

A P48 is certainly more experienced, but not necessarily better. @rotund oasis

Evidence: look at me.

It feels bad, the only other shooter I play is Density 2 (all the other games I play are MMO's like WoW, ESO, FF14 etc) and in a new D2 season I can earn new gear etc without having to give up what I've already earned, the same goes for the MMO's I play. Allot of gamers like to chase the carrot on the stick and I'm one of them. Knowing there is a carrot to chase but I have to give up what I've earned just feels really bad. I almost couldn't put the game down but hitting rank 100 and seeing what I had to give up lessened the desire to login and I don't think that's a good thing for a game. When you don't respect a players time it will bite you in the A$$

[crystal plume]

The thing is, and I mean no offense by this, to me this sounds like a purely self made issue

But of course you'll have your own opinion, and I'll leave it at that

[steel comet]

This isn't a MMO so it doesn't have that model. Arena shooters tend to have similar unlock pattern as hunt showdown does. Comparable to various COD games, Titanfall, BF.

[queen jungle]

Maybe, but would you rather have a player desiring to login and play the game or have a conflict that makes them decide it's not worth playing anymore.

[crystal plume]

If there were more people saying that it's an issue, who knows

But honestly this is the first time I've read feedback like that regarding prestige as far as I can remember

People generally seem to have a different opinion about prestige, they want it to be more rewarding and there to be even bigger of a carrot on the stick so to speak

[queen jungle]

@steel comet I play Destiny 2, the only thing that gets reset in a new season/expansion is the artifact. Everything else you've earned, gear, exotics, weapons, levels etc are kept

[crystal plume]

And that has been the general feedback for a while now, and the devs have stated that some kind of a prestige system rework is on it's way

[queen jungle]

@crystal plume Yes more unlocks, rewards etc would be a good idea, but giving up what you've already earned is bad IMO

[steel comet]

It sounds like you have only played MMOs and want other games to be similar to that?

[queen jungle]

IIRC the devs have said the prestige system will receive some work in the future, but I doubt they'll revamp it entirely.

Although I agree that it's quite frustrating and I'd prefer a system that just passively runs in the background without having to unlock everything again all the time.

[steel comet]

That's what makes it fun in my opinion. My carrot on the stick is the prestige system which keeps the game fresh for me.

[queen jungle]

@queen jungle 100%

@steel comet It's any game, I don't think anyone likes losing what they've already earned

[steel comet]

The prestige system works the same in Titanfall and COD, and I did the same thing there. It's tailored for people that want to repeat the progression.

[queen jungle]

The new MW2 has a passive prestige system where you just keep gaining levels and prestige accordingly, but no unlocks are lost.

[steel comet]

That's a bummer for me

[queen jungle]

@steel comet I would bet allot of money that more players would chase the prestige system (rewards) if they didn't lose their progress and I'm one of them. I thought that explaining my frustration would maybe help the dev's improve and area of the game that I think maybe deterring players from sticking around. I've been playing PC games for a very long time I've and played almost every MMO since Everquest 1 in 1999 and a few shooters along the way, I have a good idea of what makes games sticky and desirable to play. This game has seen a steady slow climb in average players but there are 2-3 months of gains then a drop off. I would think that the increases are around DLC's and the decreases are when people run out of things to do. I think this game has something special to offer but that feeling died for me when I hit rank 100.

[crystal plume]

I mean obviously more people would go for it since there wouldn't be any challenge or anything tied to it

It would be just yet another "here you go, more stuff" system, kinda like the dark tribute, even though the wording is that you're "sacrificing" bloodline xp for it, in reality it doesn't take anything from you and is just more stuff you can earn in a day

Which is fine, as that's what the system was made to be like

But I personally prestiged specifically for the challenge of going back to early gear, I don't enjoy having access to everything at all times as much

The feeling of beating someone who had a mosin or such while I had a winfield and being able to loot and use that for myself was fun

The new MW2 prestige system imo can hardly even be called a prestige

They just slapped the term that people are familiar with on it

[queen jungle]

To be fair, that's something you can still experience by purposefully avoiding high-level gear

[crystal plume]

Even though all it is just extra ranks you can level up with nothing tied to it really

[steel comet]

Phantom levels that hold no meaning

[crystal plume]

Self made challenges are not the same as actual challenges imo 😄

[queen jungle]

There's no meaning in Hunt's prestige either other than having invested a lot (arguably an unhealthy amount) of time

@crystal plume There is still a challenge, when your hunter dies you lose the equipped traits and have to re earn them on a new hero. You still have 4k coins plus what ever you earn in future matches so that's not really a setback. Having to unlock everything else you've earned through playing feels like it's not respecting the players time, this is bad