feedback-discussion

[native lodge]

hell even most of the two taps I do get don't happen after repeating shots , but rather shooting repositioning, denying healing and finishing them off

[main cradle]

Bingo.

Also can I be real? This convo is just

It’s something that’s for sure

[native lodge]

I guess my position on it is nerfing "spam" guns, when the most meta weapons tend not to be spam guns but have a lot of other things going for them. doesn't make a whole lot of sense balance wise

also the game has always had some degree of "spam" weapons the winnie has been here from the beginning and the game is set at the dawn of volume of fire being common place over well placed shots

infact since firearms creation. other than select instances. being able to shoot more bullets was ideal

[late wind]

I guess the difference lies in what we consider "spam guns". Because I've definitely seen people use the Mosin as one. And the Berthier definitely is. Dualies also. But most compact ammo is really only spam when used with levering/fanning.

And trading obscene firepower for your hearing (temporarily) seems like a fair tradeoff to me.

[late wind]

Yes but hearing protection is a given now. Hardly in 1895.

[native lodge]

and a game built around its sound design shouldn't make you deaf half the time for playing it. regardless of realism

[dense schooner]

should definitely be vastly increased for “special” weapons like nitro and avto

[main cradle]

The berthier isn’t a spam gun. Nor is the mosin. Nor is the lebel. They have a set firerate that can’t be altered. As for dualies, you do know that well, having two guns, equals a higher rof. But they are limited to a short range.

Realism doesn’t always equal good game design.

[native lodge]

agreed

[late wind]

Pretty sure the sharpshooter/scopesmith traits increase your rof.

[native lodge]

even more so in game with sound being so core to the design

[main cradle]

They don’t

All it does is that you can stay in ads while chambering

[trail carbon]

They do increase rate of fire

[late wind]

Which is why doing something dumb like mag dumping unnecessarily or throwing dynamite super close to you should be punishing.

[main cradle]

And even so, the rof increase would be a half or whatever

[trail carbon]

Its a significant increase in rate of fire

[main cradle]

By how much?

[trail carbon]

Unfortunately I'm on my phone right now, but I believe it's a 30% increase or something

[main cradle]

Fr, it’s literally an increase of a few points

[main cradle]

That isn’t really a lot

[trail carbon]

I mean, being able to shoot 6 shots in 4 seconds instead of 4 is significantly higher

[native lodge]

playing the game shouldn't be punishing

[late wind]

30% isn't a lot

[trail carbon]

I know thats the exact increase for vetterli deadeye marksman

[late wind]

Didn't say it should be. Doing something dumb should be.

Using your king as your primary aggressor in chess is dumb.

[main cradle]

This is the same guy who said that making the mosin bolt handle curved artificially increases the RPM

[late wind]

But playing chess isn't dumb.

[native lodge]

shooting your weapon isn't dumb

[late wind]

Keep putting words in my mouth I see. I said it makes keeping your sights on target easier.

[trail carbon]

The mosin RPM is higher than Lebel RPM despite stats because it has an angled bolt. This is true irl as well

[native lodge]

again I don't see the balance in nerfing weapons that aren't problematic to begin with

there isn't a meta weapon thats that way because of its ROF

[main cradle]

Mosin started with a straight handle. The bolt was curved around 1938

[trail carbon]

Long ammo is meta because it has massive range, damage, and penetration

[main cradle]

I didn’t remember the exact wording, so chill the hell out man

[trail carbon]

Ok? It has an angled bolt in Hunt

[main cradle]

Yeah, I know

And idc if it has one

[late wind]

Simply argue in good faith then. Not hard.

[trail carbon]

So why bring that piece of information to the table?

[main cradle]

Then can’t you accept that this is a game. It’s not some military simulator that’s so realistic.

[main cradle]

Cause I brought it out or whatever

Who gives a fuck anymore

I’m done with this, I got better things to do

[trail carbon]

Huh? The bloody hell just happened?

[late wind]

He's talking about how I brought up how the devs artistic license with the weapons artificially improved/worsened some of them. But that was weeks ago.

[native lodge]

I mean it comes down to opinions at this point

I would rather be able to hear, and not be punished for just using my gun the way its supposed to be used

[trail carbon]

Long ammo is the meta, even though spam guns are annoying

Long ammo has incomparable penetration and range. While also having high damage.

So I dunno why people want to nerf stuff like the Winfield

[native lodge]

if someone finds something annoying I get that, I find things annoying too, but sheer annoyance doesn't balance games

[trail carbon]

Yeah

[late wind]

I'm not disputing long ammo being meta. But wouldn't it be nice if the guy who just ripped off five mosin shots had a bit of temporary hearing impairment? Might make it easier to close that gap.

[trail carbon]

Like, dualies, levering and fanning annoy me, but they aren't oppressive like long ammo is

I don't think that's really a proper way to balance long ammo, sorry.

[late wind]

Well. Agree to disagree.

[trail carbon]

In my opinion, I think separating rifle and pistol ammo pools would be beneficial

[native lodge]

I really don't have issues with people shooting quickly,

[trail carbon]

And/Or bring long ammo closer to medium ammo

[native lodge]

I can agree with that to some degree

[late wind]

I suggested this exact thing weeks ago and people here threw a hissy fit.

[trail carbon]

The "downside" of long ammo is that you have less ammo

But like...

24 reserve shots is enough to kill the server twice over

So

Not really a downside

Especially when this ammo can pen most surfaces and carry lethal damage over 100 meters

[late wind]

That was the exact point I made. And again. Resulted in like 50+ downvotes and a bunch of whiners @ing me.

[trail carbon]

Because they love their long ammo spam

[late wind]

"Don't touch my uppercut. I can't win without it!"

[trail carbon]

Compact and medium ammo feel like shooting spitballs in comparison

Don't get me started on the one slot vetterli with long ammo

Hate that stupid gun so much

"Hey, here's a vetterli but it can pen anything and has no damage fall off. Also it's a one slot weapon. Have fun!"

Make the uppercut a two slot weapon and be done with it.

Or make it deal 115 damage

[late wind]

Preaching to the converted.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I know

Just a little frustrated

They'll be content to sit in their concertina fort with a shotgun and an uppercut for all eternity

And then say some shit like "Just bring explosives!"

[queen jungle]

If they have concertina bombs or concertina arrows explosives don’t even matter

[weak stone]

From my experience as well, the explosives are very very inconsistent.
Sometimes it will destroy all of it, other times it destroys half of a bomb.

Overall I think the rust bomb wouldn't be too bad of an idea, would add in another tool, and its purely utility so I see no harm in adding it

[trail carbon]

I like the rust bomb idea, especially if it persists like a poison cloud

[weak stone]

prolly just make it a cloud that destroys x amount of barbed wire every 5-10seconds or something like that

so you have a nice little slow burn against a conc bomb,
and if youre trying to get in quick, thats where the dynamite is still useful for

[frosty garnet]

@obsidian sphinx, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Boss type: Twins 
Descriptions: 2 small creepy girls run around giggling with knifes once one dies the other gets enraged and gets faster and takes alittle less damage.```

[frosty garnet]

@oblique timber, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

How about if you extract with the bounty, your weapons become non-contraband. gives value to picking up peoples overpriced weapons and reward using cheaper guns, and rather you can use just guns you like instead```

[stray horizon]

I mean barely even, medium ammo doesn't get that much more

medium needs a buff

and another compact rifle would be nice

[stray horizon]

I could get behind this as a way to balance it, that being said dualie uppercut is hilarious

[potent grotto]

Fix your flash bombs. They are broken af. You get flashed even though the flash detonates 20meters behind you or even you are in a cover you still get flashed

That thing is just not working

[celest solstice]

Scrapbeak does 120 dmg in one hit. Cool. Very balanced

[wooden smelt]

You need to know when he attacks you the timing

[celest solstice]

Lol. Thanks for the tip. Didn't know that after 1200 hours

[wooden smelt]

Yes it’s 3000 hour knowledge

[tranquil mist]

@somber harbor there already are two Mexican hunters genius. What do you think The Rat and Lloronas Heir are? If you meant a male Mexican hunter then be specific otherwise you end up with horrible suggestions.

[burnt mulch]

@hybrid minnow so like.. the martini henry riposte?

[hybrid minnow]

Full on revolver.

[queen jungle]

You have an interesting idea to make the uppercut two slot and I almost agreed until I thought about the shotgun loadout. Frankly, the shotgun can't survive without a long ammo ranged pistol.

[stray horizon]

bruh hunters have eyes on the back of their head come on now

[stray horizon]

so weirdly hostile lol

who hurt you

[main cradle]

He’s literally like this, fr shoulda seen the log where he was shitting on people cause they ain’t solo

Seriously he’s a salt lord

Or whatever

[late wind]

You don't necessarily need long ammo to land a long shot. The FMJ conversion can one tap to the dome at like 107m if I remember correctly.

Also what's wrong with more Mexican hunters?

[unborn dagger]

Everything

[gritty grail]

drones seem like a bad idea, no matter the implementation

[late wind]

Agreed.

[daring isle]

With all the reshades happening on night maps, why would you leave it in rotation Crytek......

[signal mural]

@late wind While hearing-loss from gunfire may add a layer of complexity and realism, tinnitus sucks enough IRL and games having effects that replicate that buzzing or similar effects are real tortures for people with tinnitus. I think it would deter a lot of people from continued play and a toggle to turn-off that effect would probably be requested frequently.

[warm zephyr]

tell me you have the privilege to not play in china servers without telling me

[rotund epoch]

Damn bro woke up and chose violence

[rotund epoch]

Aye man tell that to the countless vetterli shots that have headshot sounds but mans still walking

[warm zephyr]

if telling privileged people they don't believe people that have to deal with dispriviledge everyday is violence then you'd better get me on life sentence wity no chance of parole

[rotund epoch]

Bro bro

Calm

[crimson sage]

bros, what happen with avtomat nowaday? seem to be over power or just have new hack? i keep getting killed by them every game at 40-60m with 2 spray ( 4-6 bullets?) asia sever

[signal mural]

@unique folio Have you seen how many positions are currently being offered to help work on Hunt:Showdown?

There are a lot of people who love this game and want to see it improve and have their own personal ideas of what would be best to fix first... I'm sure their crew is trying Mate. A salty post isn't going to help them; they are bound to be doing overtime with so many positions open.

[signal mural]

I haven't experienced it but plenty of people have been insisting that there is a No-Recoil script cheat being used with the Avto lately.

[rotund epoch]

Avto has a controllable recoil once you get the jist of it

But 40-60 seems a little extreme

[crimson sage]

sure, asia sever getting nut, avt everywhere , team of 3 avtomat destroy everything, they even walk-n-spray.

5.5-6 stars you have to deal with them

6 stats seem to be extreme lol

[rotund epoch]

Asia has always been nut wdym

The best thing about Asia is your roll of a team having avto/nitro is higher than the chance of finding ammo boxes in the wild

Plus avto uses normal long ammo

[signal mural]

That "Scythe Lance" wouldn't work. As a melee weapon, yeah sure but as a projectile it wouldn't fly right and would hit with a blunt curvature that would push-off whatever it hit.

[unborn dagger]

Wait until you hear about what happens when you shoot a gun too frequently in Hunt. Also other shooters such as COD and Battlefield have things such as flashbangs which cause tinnitus.

[unborn smelt]

What ?

Why does the changed shape of the melee part make the projectile hit with the blunt end ?

[smoky hull]

No drone pls :3

Add. Bleed/poison helth dmg and huge noise. Won't stop until it's dead.

Range of 50m

So basically

[smoky hull]

Turn it into a Sidewinder missile 😂

intense growling any famous last words?

[frosty garnet]

@smoky hull, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Tittle: Sidewinder Bee. *no drone*
Details Intense Growling *any last words* , causes bleed/poison, hurts 25hp, dies on impact by tracking player or its killed, max range of 50 or 100m.```

@smoky hull, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Matched regex
Tittle: Sidewinder Bee.
Details: Intense Growling, causes bleed/poison, hurts 25hp, dies on impact by tracking player or its killed, max range of 50 or 100m.```

[signal mural]

No, no sorry I made a comma-slice. As a melee it would work - yeah sure, -but-... scythes are only sharp on the inside of the curvature, so as a projectile you'd be bludgeoning the target with a sloped support rail of the scythe blade. A rocket-propelled scythe would probably just knock over the target if it could be aimed reasonably and bounce off somewhere.

[unborn smelt]

you realize the Bomblance doesn't shoot it's tip right ?

The bomblance shoots essentially a small dynamite stick with an arrow tip, which i marked in red here

lemme pull a pic from 3D view

Here you can see it - what's shot off is only the bronze little "dart" containing the explosive charge and the tip at the front which buries in the target

[smoky hull]

Can we turn the drone bee into a sidewinder? 😂

[unborn smelt]

And fun fact - IRL the name Bomblance only refers to the small explosive projectile not the entire thing

This is am IRL version

the "Whaling-gun" is what's essentially the gun, and the bomblance is the small explosive dart

[smoky hull]

Okay that's enough explosive to set a small hole

[unborn smelt]

i mean yes - it's supposed to kill a whale

[smoky hull]

Oh dam

[frosty garnet]

@balmy sable, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Tittle: Allow players to drop a pistol when using double pistols

Desc: pretty simple. Allow players to drop one of the pistols if they are wielding double pistols. 

Also useful if you kill someone with double uppercut and just wanna take one with you.```

[queen jungle]

@balmy sable This was asked for and rejected by the devs when dual pistols were first introduced.
Taking dual pistols into a match is a decision you make and the devs want you to have to stick to that decision. Dual pistols is twice the ammo and rate of fire, but you give up precise aim.
Similarly, if somebody else has dual pistols it's treated just like any other medium slot gear and you have to choose whether to leave it or take it - but possibly having to leave a rifle behind.

[somber harbor]

it ain't just twice the rate of fire lol

oftentimes it's over twice the rate, sometimes less

it should be twice the rate max

I calculated it all out a few weeks ago nd have all but dual sparks here bc its fire rate isn't really relevant since it only has one shot in it

dual scotties is 2.24x speed
dual bornheims are 1.04x speed fair tho since making semi autos 2x as fast would be avto levels
dual new army is 1.21x speed, also fair
dual conversions is 2.95x speed which is just mental
dual chains are around the same, close to 2.95 but slightly slower than conversion
uppercuts are 1.9x speed
dual paxes are 2.39x speed
dual dolches are 1.17 which is again fair bc semi auto pistol
dual lemat are 2.14x speed
dual nagants are 3.15x speed
dual nagant silenced is the same as the nagant
dual officers are 1.38x speed which again is fair bc they already have a high fire rate
dual scottfield spitfire is 1.42x speed

[queen jungle]

Yes, I generalised a bit for sake of the argument

[somber harbor]

every single one of them that's over 2x needs readjusted though

[balmy sable]

Did not know that. Personally I dont play it but I do feel like a waste to see double uppercuts and not being able to upgrade my pax. And logically it makes sense so I thought it could be a nice addon

[somber harbor]

like honestly if they reduced the fire rate before reducing their accuracy I think it would have been much easier to balance dualies as a whole

bc now most dualies suck except conversion which is still semi accurate and has a fast fire rate

[queen jungle]

Conversions need to be good, especially because of prestige. The first set of weapons need to be good enough to win.

[somber harbor]

I'm talking about dual pistols not single pistols

[fathom geyser]

do you know how shit dual conversion and nagant would be if it was only 2x speed?
the same reason bornheim and dolch are barely faster, its because balancing

[somber harbor]

make them a bit more accurate to compensate for the slower fire rate

sinple really

instead they just gutted the accuracy of all the dualies except for the conversion for some reason

they're the only serviceable pair

[fathom geyser]

nah, ill take firerate over accuracy

thats the entire gimmick of dualies

fast but inaccurate

[balmy sparrow]

I mean
It worked for him didn't it

How did dying standing worked out for ya so far?

[signal mural]

Ah, shit. Yeah, you're right. It just goes to show how little I've played bomb lance

I always liked the idea of harpooning enemies with the bomb lance but yeah you're right. In my early 1300 Bloodline levels I've probably shot it 5-7x. And the melee attack was the only killing stroke I've had against Hunters.

[fathom geyser]

i recently got 2 bomblance shot kills in one game

i still died each time because it takes a while to explode, but still

lmao

#BuffBomblance

[dense schooner]

#game-ideas message

explosive xbow mains strike again

[queen jungle]

@short silo hit boxes are clearly defined in Hunt. If you get hit in the head by an opponent ADSing, they aimed at your head - or you moved your head so it happened to be in the path of the bullet, which is really your fault then.

The only RNG when it comes to aiming is hip-firing a gun. In that case, a bullet can go anywhere within the crosshair and you can just as easily miss as you hit.
But this kind of RNG is something most shooters have in common, so I really don't see an issue here.

[unborn smelt]

It does tho...

[quick reef]

didnt for me, but i just remembered i could just copy & paste my old steamfolder datas, the issue was that i downloaded it on ANOTHER ssd i guess

[sharp arrow]

@soft river The way the explosive crossbow requires you to aim for distance is pretty far off target. It’s in a good place.

If someone hits you past 50 meters it’s because they have a lot of experience with it

[soft river]

no not that range

the explosion's range

[unborn smelt]

well for the next time - hunt saves it's settings in the userfolder

aw hecc sry wrong ping

!userfolder

[marsh garden]

If you're experiencing performance/visual issues after an update or in daily play, a possible remedy is deleting the folder called User in your Hunt main directory. PLEASE BE WARNED, this will reset all of your in game settings.

To access Hunt: Showdown main game directory please open Steam Library > Right Click Hunt: Showdown > Properties > Local Files > Browse Local Files > A folder called User is the one you're looking for.

If you want to avoid resetting your settings, you can delete only the folder named Shaders inside the User folder, but this method is less effective when resolving issues in some situations.

[soft river]

the explosions range is like the same or a little less than frag arrows

and is instant

frag arrow only has better range because of the shrapnel, so its really only better in detecting if someone is inside a building

[sharp arrow]

For a lethal kill at longer distances you need to be very precise though, same with frag arrows

[soft river]

ok but no one uses crossbows at long range

only the most ballsy

[sharp arrow]

I just don’t think the range needs to be reduced.

[soft river]

only the most confident in their aim do

I'm not talking about THAT range

I'm talking about the EXPLOSIONS range

[sharp arrow]

Are you talking about the splash radius?

[soft river]

YES

[sharp arrow]

Eh I mean it’s Insta kill area is very small.

But it does have a fairly big range it deals even chip damage

[soft river]

the fact it instakills makes me want it nerfed even more

i completely forgot about that

that just makes it infinitely better than frag arrows

because they can't insta kill

[sharp arrow]

It only insta kills if you directly hit someone- the shotbolt is way more reliable in that case

[soft river]

you can still aim for their feet and do like 100 damage

and because the explosion is instant its near guaranteed

[sharp arrow]

That won’t kill- especially with bulwark

[soft river]

not everyone has bulwark

[sharp arrow]

You are also sacrificing the ability to get a insta kill headshot up to 300 meters in some cases

[soft river]

300 meters

can you repeat that for me

with proper context

let me do it for you

300m headshot with a crossbow

good fucking luck

[sharp arrow]

I’m talking about other 3 slot weapons

The crossbow is a bigger slot sacrifice then the bow

[soft river]

its still not easy unless you have a scope

[fluid locust]

insta kill needs a direct hit and is negated by bulwark

[sharp arrow]

So by taking the explosive bow- you lose out on the opportunity to use long ammo rifles that are much more reliable

[soft river]

long
Cringe

[sharp arrow]

At least on pc, the explosive bow is a gimmick

[soft river]

no

[fluid locust]

if you're getting dunked on by xplosive xbow sounds like a skill issue

[soft river]

it is annoying to fight

because i'm fighting 3 people

the guy with xbow can't aim for shit

[fluid locust]

get teammates?

[soft river]

neither can his buds

they died

[fluid locust]

get better teammates?

[soft river]

but because he has explosive ammo

his bad aim is not as bad

it just makes the crossbow easier to use

that is my problem

it is a high risk high reward and explosive crossbow just makes it easier

less risk

high reward

its like with current avtomat

because you can get fucking 28 reserve without shooting any bullets

[fluid locust]

if your aim is so good just headshot him lol

[soft river]

i did not say my aim was good

i only said theirs wasn't

[soft river]

it completely got rid of the high risk high reward factor of the avtomat

[fluid locust]

yours isn't good either so stop crying lol

you got outplayed RIP try again

[soft river]

there is no need to be rude

[short silo]

@queen jungle Here come frol the problem is hip-firing RNG is without any doubt mostly generous for LOW MMR. Then in Quickplay we come to a rigged loterry that is in favor to the low MMR. I'm tired to het headshoted every 2 or 3 shots from a spaming dualguns firing

[soft river]

i'm stating what i find annoying in a game and you are just being generally rude

were you in that game

no

[fluid locust]

clearly you weren't either cuz you got blown to smithereens

[soft river]

if you have nothing to add, don't bother talking

[fluid locust]

also you could also get 30 reserve by emptying uppercuts. the dual sparks pistols are nothing new but making it lazier

[soft river]

again i've said this before about this point

that does not prove really any other point

and notice I said "without shooting any bullets", I know about the uppercut trick

[fluid locust]

xplosive crossbow is a meme weapon. avto is just a shotgun but more expensive

[soft river]

both of those statements are just wrong

avtomat has ability to shoot at ranges where even slugs aren't that good

mainly due to dropoff

and explosive crossbow is not a meme weapon

only explosive ammo is

because its range is very small

[fluid locust]

dualies have ability to shoot at range too. with the same amount of rng as avto

avto isn't 100% accurate first shot anymore

[soft river]

you still have 2 shots right after

[fluid locust]

yea but it's still RNG

[soft river]

3 tries

also most dual pistols are normal revolvers

at least the best ones for dualing are

the time it takes to shoot 3 bullets is less than that of the avtomat

[fluid locust]

dual conversions with FMJ can be as effective as an avto

because they are both RNG and just depends how lucky you get

[soft river]

considering conversions also have 300m/s with normal

270m/s with fmj

you also need to account for leading

leading, rng

avtomat is a mosin but automatic

it comes with the full suite of stats

[fluid locust]

you don't really need to lead under 40m where you would be using either avto or dualies

that's like trying to lead with a shotgun lmao

[soft river]

with dual pistols you need to account for the lead because if you are aiming for them in the middle

of your crosshairs

theres a bigger chance of you missing

because those that would go for them, now go to the side because of movement

and it can go to the side where they are moving away from

[queen jungle]

Are you arguing players with poor aim have an advantage over high-elo players because RNG may be in their favour every once in a while?
Even if that were the case, why don't high skilled players just use hip-fire as well to even the odds?

[soft river]

i'm going to go now

i'm glad you actually added something

[main cradle]

The fact that he brought the argument up in the first place is just wowzers

[short silo]

Seems that you have a poor MMR or even don't play the game in QP. When you have a high MMR (5 or. 6 stars) try to hipe fire, you'll miss 90% of the shots

[balmy sparrow]

Finall gimme a friend request
I can't assault you myself since you can't even be sent one

[fluid locust]

I mean I don't think high MMR players have a problem with dualies. since they can you know just aim and headshot the person standing in the open relying on RNG

[short silo]

I am a Stack developer and know what I am talking about. The devs have just created a simolealgorithm based on a random script increading the odds lower is the MMR. I. Think this is not the solution, maybbe the easiest way to do but not the most realistic and reliable

[main cradle]

Dude, there’s a thing called being outplayed. A two star can kill a 6 star using whatever, like end of the day it’s a game.

[unborn smelt]

And i'm sure you have valid proof to go with such a bold claim...

[main cradle]

I’ll be blunt. I doubt there’s proof

[fluid locust]

hey man he's a developer he obviously knows what he's talking about /s

[short silo]

If you've had even read only one timez the terms and conditions of the games, I'm not allowed to publish any part of the source code

[unborn smelt]

Ay man stay nice or get the bonk

both of you

[ripe basalt]

Alright, I think it's time we move on from this conversation.

If you believe there is a coding bias that makes the game unfair, you submit that Source code to Crytek support. There's no reason for you to try to discuss it here because you have no proof for your claims. As a result, it's spreading misinformation which falls against our #discord-rules.

There's no need for anyone to insult each other past this point. Thanks.

[short silo]

Agree

[somber harbor]

the only bias the game has is the fact that I can somehow never get a frag kill but waxed dynamite = a dead player whenever I use it

must be a skill thing but I really don't get how that works lol

frags just be hating me

[signal mural]

Get outta da water

[frosty garnet]

@charred ivy, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I would like to see a way to purchase the traits you want with one click like a loadout maybe be able to give priority to which traits are bought first```

[quaint sluice]

Work on the match making please :
the difference of skill between 5 and 6 mmr is too high and we are matching with them too often.
Some people rather wait 30 sec more and have fair game than playing and get instant perfect match by 6mmr player with 3+ kda

Lately, every game, we face higher mmr player only, and higher kda only. It's not normal that the worst player in the ennemy team is a better player than the 3 of us ...
Work on it please, really. We know there is so much more better player, we just want to play at our level.

[frosty garnet]

@terse cloak, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

50 level 50 hunters```

[queen jungle]

6 star players were complaining that they weren't getting any matches. There just aren't enough of them. So Crytek listened and matched them with 5 stars. It's a popular game, just not as popular as PUBG.

[quaint sluice]

well i totally understand that, but most of the time, we don't have to wait and found a game immediately, and i'm sure with 20sec more every one would found better opponent, and everyone would be more happy ! Maybe find a better balance

[queen jungle]

5 star can group with 4 and 6 stars. Your wait time is lower than a 6 star.

[quaint sluice]

We are three 5star and only match with higher kda and mmr …
Even when we bring our 3 star friend some time he have to play vs 5 star only and he is the only not 5 star xd
Just balance a little bit would be cool, because we understand the problem of number of player etc

[queen jungle]

KDA don't factor into matchmaking. Only MMR.

[blissful pewter]

@wooden smelt Me trying to see a Cain 100m out hiding in a bush

[dense sapphire]

@coarse geyser (New Silenced Pistol)
While not being a pistol, the hand-crossbow sounds somewhat like what you're looking for while also being good in CQC

[coarse geyser]

i know but fun pistol

[dense sapphire]

@mellow flume (Dump Custom Ammo)
One of the primary downsides of custom ammo is that it's hard to resupply, being able to dump it completely negates that downside.

@wooden smelt (Crytek needs to listen to the community)
You're complaining about a feature that hasn't even been officially announced yet. Form your opinion after you actually get to play with it.

[queen jungle]

@serene matrix Progressive skins are a good idea, but I think you can make an even better suggestion. In order to progress, you need to do a series of quests. After finishing the quests, you'll see your hunter gain new clothing, but also new scars. Maybe he'll grow a mustache and then a beard. He might lose an eye and wear an eyepatch. The aftermath of coming against the Spider Boss and the Butcher.

[serene matrix]

But what if they die? I like to keep the ideas simple

[queen jungle]

The reason I say this is every Developer wants players to keep playing. To keep up the steam player count numbers. This is one very strong reason to make progressive hunters.

[unborn dagger]

@hexed ermine Uhm.... that sure is a unique suggestion...

[olive plover]

Guys can anyone help for crycloud error?

[charred pine]

Troubleshooting channel would be better for getting help with this #troubleshooting or console versions of it

[charred pine]

Some kind of quest lines will be talked about on tomorrows dev stream, dont know if its anything like this but maybe it could be. But I think the simple version of Tier I upgrades to tier II at lvl 25 and tier II to tier III at lvl 50 would be better for this idea, simpler and easier to achieve regularly

[queen jungle]

I wasn't talking about common hunters you get under recruitment. I was referring to legendary characters with progression systems built into them that needs to be unlocked via quests. For common hunters, yes it would be cool to see their outfits change as they level up.

[charred pine]

Ah I see, got confused 😅

[atomic cipher]

@last meteor Uninstalling is not that unwise

[wheat whale]

Hey Guys, I've been thinking about this for a long time since me and my friends are struggling sometimes:

What about a Perk that let's you See the bodies of dead players within a radius of X meters in shadow Vision?
This is kind of useful after battles in the woods for finding lootable players OR to See whether or not hunter XY on a certain Position has been revived or not.

Love the idea, just Dont know if it's fitting...

[queen jungle]

@buoyant dust You can't lockpick barricaded doors because there's no lock protecting it.

Sledgehammer is Hunt's lock pick

[queen jungle]

In the suggestions chat, that trait to see dead bodies in dark sight is often requested especially during this event.

[cedar coyote]

Clearly wrong

[buoyant dust]

yea i know, i just didnt come up with a better title tbh xD. My point was that i think it would be a pretty neat perk if you could unlock the barricaded doors

[crystal plume]

I mean you can already do it by shooting the barricade through the wall from the barricaded side

[somber harbor]

yeah it's easy to get around those doors if the building is wood and you have long ammo

[crystal plume]

Doesn't necessarily need to even be long ammo

[buoyant dust]

absolutely, but you would not get as much attention if you could just open those doors with a perk

[crystal plume]

I prefer being able to rely on the barricaded doors to block people unless I hear them try to entry through it Adds readability and that way you can focus the entryways that are more likely to be used by enemies silently

[buoyant dust]

as every camper would. i think a perk to surprise campers who just camp and wait for someone to enter the nonbarricaded doors would be an enrichment for Hunt

[crystal plume]

I'm as far from a camper as you can imagine

I still prefer readability

I also push people with the shooting the barricade method myself and when you're that close, there's no reason to really crouch around anyways

[buoyant dust]

thats a totally different play style obviously and i totally agree that crouching around in that case wouldn make sense. in some cases i does though and i think that in some cases beeing able to open a barricaded door with a perk would be pretty nice without beeing overpowered. at the end of the day it would be a perk and not everyone would use it. if you have a different opinion an that, thats fine anyway

[heady sinew]

@buoyant dust about you suggestion, the doors are barricaded not locked so it wouldn't really make sense, maybe a perk that makes you do more damage to doors with melee or something would work better.

[dark kelp]

Hey @delicate abyss, can you let the boys know that if they're gonna put a UAVeetle in the game can we at least get a legendary skin for it with a cowboy hat?

[crystal plume]

Please do not tag CMs/devs who are not currently active in the chat

[atomic cipher]

Ping abuse is a myth and ppl do not know what they are talking about, 'cause it's not how it works in Hunt... I know, I know. Heard this 12537486121+ times before in here . Yet somehow every time (90% of the times I check) my bullets seem to disappear right before the enemy player, or they go through them, or whatever the analogy you might come up, which raises my brow in a disbelief, it turns out these enemy players are from russia playing on EU server. Some from far east cities, some not specified.... What a weird coincidence. 👍

[native lodge]

surely you have clips of these ghost bullets so we don't have to rely on your word alone?

[charred pine]

Have you played with 200+ ping? It feels horrible, I tried it and I have to headshot grunts twice because the first one just didnt count? Suuuurely theyre doing for pvp advantage, theyre absolutely dominating in pvp!

[atomic cipher]

Surely when I do bother doing recording it (because why would I make this up??) you will be able to explain it anyway

[atomic cipher]

I have not. But my observation still remains. Maybe it's even worse fro those players, I do not know.

[native lodge]

well most clips do get proven not to be hit reg issues. also I am not accusing you of making it up. I am saying its possible you could be wrong and a clip would go a long way to making people believe your claims. especially when so many of these claims get disproven

[somber harbor]

you should give 200+ ping a try

then you'll know how bad it is

[atomic cipher]

gotcha. I will try to not forget to record it next time.

[burnt mulch]

@short silo it’s “random” for a reason. You can reroll your teammates if you want but then its less random so there’s a bit of a penalty.
removing the penalty makes it easier for people to snipe each other in teams, avoiding the premade MMR penalty. it also makes it harder for newer players, players with lower stats, or people who want to play with certain loadouts to find teams.

if you want to choose your teammates, thats why we have lfg chats

[queen jungle]

@merry summit The metal grid windows can be shot through with full metal jacket rounds. I know because some enemy player was taunting me with various movements [t-bag] that evoked the "can't shoot me" vibe. I just pointed, aimed, and headshotted him through the grating.

[main cradle]

Ok cool

Just a question

Why did you say this in feedback discussion?

And not feedback?

Just askin

[solid moss]

When you are right, you are right!

Moved it! 😛

[main cradle]

Whatever man

[solid moss]

Try not to sounds so lifeless 😛

[main cradle]

Sorry man, It’s just one of those days

[solid moss]

All cool, hope things start going well for ya 🙂

[solid moss]

Sometimes sleeping it through is the best course of action

[noble pasture]

fix your piece of shit servers

[cloud ether]

@noble pasture I agree. The lag has been unreal and my friend can barely load into his he matches.

[wild burrow]

Got killed by a immolator before I could even move or defend myself 😔

[cloud ether]

Also matchmaking is trash. I shouldn’t be getting out with a 12 prestige player when I, a level 81, have only played the game for a few weeks and have never even prestige’s.

[unborn wadi]

That’s… not how MMR works…

[cloud ether]

Okay so what they’re prestige’s 12 and still only have 2 stars ? It’s the stars right ?

[dim heron]

MMR is based off of who you kill and who you die too. Prestige means nothing

[cloud ether]

I die to everyone tho! And the people I end up up going against kick my butt.

[cloud ether]

For the love of all that’s holy, does anyone else struggle with the game crashing? I’m in the middle of no where and my game is crashed. You just gave a free kill to the team chasing us.

[queen jungle]

If your client keeps crashing, you should check with #troubleshooting, we have plenty of knowledgeable users there

[cloud ether]

Ah okay. Thank you. I’m on Xbox though?

[queen jungle]

Oh, sorry. In that case #bug-reports-xbox is probably the better place

[frigid folio]

Yeah it's based on the stars, which go up and down based on the MMR (stars) of the people who kill you or that you kill (up for kills, down for being killed). The way it's meant to work, sometimes not overly accurate for a mix of reasons the main being low population times maybe is you have an individual MMR AND a team MMR. When you're playing with friends the game tries to find other teams of the same MMR bracket (normally within half a star variance, with exceptions 😆). So as an example (going to use extremes because it's easier) if your friend is a 6 star solo MMR and you being new are a 1 star, the game will average it out and put you some where around the 3 star range for team MMR. This does mean you being lower than that could be vsing people who are a higher MMR individually (maybe 2x 3star team) but because your friends is so high it brings your team MMR up. But the flip side to that is your friend will be vsing people of a much lower skill level than they are.

It's not a flawless system and it does make exceptions to MMR ranges, for example on OCE servers you might see a team of all 4 stars vsing a team of all 6 stars because the player base in OCE isn't big enough to fill a game of all 6 stars

The stars are also brackets of an actually MMR number that as a player you don't get to see, you just know roughly where your mmr is based on your stars

I believe anyway, anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or maybe have out dated info 😅

And sorry for the wall of text for anyone who wants to read it 🤣

[quick kettle]

You're mostly right, I would just change where you say "it's based on the stars", because realistically it's based on the hidden number behind the stars.....which is why a high 4 and a low 6 are closer than one might assume. MMR brackets are also based on these hidden numbers. The stars are just there to represent your relative MMR

[worthy knoll]

Reminder: this is not Tarkov

[burnt mulch]

did you mean to tag someone?

[frosty garnet]

@idle musk, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Silent uppercut pls```

[worthy knoll]

Yes, the guy that wanted rare weapons to be only/mostly "found" in matches.

[burnt mulch]

welp @solemn bough

[solemn bough]

?

[burnt mulch]

scroll up.

[solemn bough]

Even with these changes it would still be very far from Tarkov anyway. The question is -would it make the game better, worse, different?

[burnt mulch]

I’m pretty sure it would make the game worse. Hunt isnt like Tarkov or TCF in that it’s a lot more about the gunplay than farming/crafting economy or gear progression. I’d much rather they balance “higher tier” weapons than just try to make them less accessible but still overly strong.

[solemn bough]

Hunt already has these features implemented one way or another. You can find various weapons and items in raids, you can loot downed players and access to top tiered weapons is somewhat limited (price and levels). Why I suggest is making the gunplay a bit more varied than it already is. It would be also a bit more restricted while at the same time roaming the map would be more exciting because you could find [good] weapons. Not to mention that to compare Hunt to Tarkov is like comparing Civilization to Crusader Kings - completely different games, even though both are strategy games.

[burnt mulch]

ask anyone whose played the game for any length of time and they can tell you that economy is an ignorable part of Hunt. Monetary value is more of a stylistic choice and preference than actual progression. You’re not actually limited if you don’t prestige.
Making the gunplay varied can be achieved by actually balancing high end weapons and giving them counterplay outside of just using them yourself.

and I’m literally saying that hunt isnt tarkov and that I dont think similar systems would work as well in hunt.

[solemn bough]

Exactly! If the economy is an ignorable part of Hunt, why not make something that would go around the monetary economy but still influence it? Meaning - limit access to weaponry. And "actually balancing weaponry" means nothing because we clearly cant have that with so many weapons being in the game, they simply can't make it all work (just like they can't do it in Tarkov). I would rather have slightly unbalanced weapons but rare, than everything stale, boring but balanced.

[burnt mulch]

Because economy is ignorable specifically because people go for the bounty every game. PvP victory is a PvE victory. By diluting gameplay incentives, there are fewer gunfights.

and if your argument about "actually balancing weaponry" is based around your belief that it's impossible, then idk what to tell you

[solemn bough]

What if you could open weapon caches that contain random weapons but the only way to open these caches is to have a bounty?

[burnt mulch]

Tarkov's guns are inherently unbalanced based on the fact that higher tier guns are supposed to be basically strictly better than their lower tiered carbon copies.

ehh that just sounds like busiwork.
clear the server, take bounty, "oh hey maybe we can run around and farm chests"

[solemn bough]

Well, Hunt devs don't have Tarkovs system and they still fail to balance their guns, so...

[burnt mulch]

kinda like farming event points

I take that as a failing of the development/balance team rather than an inherent inability to do so.

[solemn bough]

And you hope them to improve somehow?

[burnt mulch]

?

so you think it's impossible for the crytek team to balance better, then?

[main cradle]

Can I just throw the wrench into the gears?

Hunt doesn’t have a bag system.

Making pretty much, idk, getting a stocked locker back at the dingy shack pretty much pointless or whatever

[burnt mulch]

being able to be revived also kinda fucks with having a bag system, since wtf is the revived guy gonna spawn with? this aint apex.

can't just find a full loadout on the ground.

and if you could, why bring a loadout in the first place

[solemn bough]

It doesn't need to have a bag system

[unborn smelt]

would it tho ?

I think that in of itself would balance systems that revolve around looting

because then you need to drop the gun you brought

[solemn bough]

True

[unborn smelt]

meaning it's a mechanic that rewards people that either can't afford high end gear

or people that could afford it are encouraged to use smth else instead so they can profit

[main cradle]

That’s already in the game

It’s called looting bodies but I mean

[unborn smelt]

Well yes and no

the issue with looting bodies is that you need bodies

[burnt mulch]

when are you realistically going to loot a locker that requires a bounty to open without clearing the server in the first place

[solemn bough]

It was a suggestion, not a solution

[unborn smelt]

the ones with access to looting bodies aren't the ones that would benefit from the system the most

because those that could need the small boost are the ones that make up the bodies for others to loot

[burnt mulch]

that's kind of counterproductive to the original point, which I understood to be improving gun diversity.
this just pushes everyone to the high end.

[solemn bough]

how would that push everyone to the high end? People have to die and not all weapons have to be top tier

[unborn smelt]

just to make sure - i'm not talking about his system in particular - just most looting systems in general

[burnt mulch]

well sure.

[unborn smelt]

and i think there, specifically because we don't have a bag, it'd somewhat balance itself out

[main cradle]

You can sell contraband guns, but at a reduced price

That might be neet

Like heavily reduced

[burnt mulch]

how does it not? when you kill someone with a desirable weapon, high end players aren't going to swap their high end loadouts for the killed. Low end players are propelled via looting mechanics to the high end by stealing high end players' loadouts.

[solemn bough]

But that's why I introduced the limited shop version

If top players can't simply buy top guns, it balances itself

[unborn smelt]

Issues is that low end players with subpar gear likely won't kill the high end player with desirable gear

[main cradle]

And yes I’m sure someone is gonna scream and cry that this’ll make avto farming more desirable/a thing . There’s just one thing

How often do you find a avto?

[unborn smelt]

chances for that to happen are very low

[solemn bough]

I guess it depends on how you design the loot system.

[main cradle]

…

I’m talkin bout contraband

[solemn bough]

Currently there are no spawns

afaik

[native lodge]

create a system in which the top players can buy up all the limited guns

[burnt mulch]

well if we're bringing the discussion back to the "limited shop" and "world loot for guns", then I go back to what I mentioned before.
which is

1. dilutes PvE objectives, which dilutes PvP incentives
2. balance the guns themselves to increase diversity
3. adding busiwork rather than progression

actually the nitro spawns relatively often.

dunno if avto is a thing that world spawns

[solemn bough]

yeah, saw nitro, but not avto

[burnt mulch]

I found a random nagant officer brawler on a fence once. that was weird.

[main cradle]

It might be but it’s probably like

0.0001%

[solemn bough]

All 3 points are quite manageable.

1. Introduce incentives to do Pve, like open only high tier caches with bounty, while low-mid tier weapons spawn normally
2. Balance could work, but I don't see it happening any time soon
3. Busiwork can be reduced by limiting how many times you can loot caches or how many of them can spawn (1per boss)
   And that's just 2 minute brainstor.

again, these are suggestions and not very well thought out, but if we figure out how to make it work, we can make the game better

[burnt mulch]

you're considering a revamp of the entire shop/looting system as a whole and think just balancing the existing weapons isn't "happening any time soon"?

[solemn bough]

entire? no. Just remove some weapons. That's all. It sure would require some thought but the game didn't change much lately, so why not?

[burnt mulch]

I feel like you're severely underestimating the "some thought" to make this work.

[solemn bough]

I'm not, I just don't have any hope for balancing team and "adding/removing" some things in the game is more manageable than balance

[burnt mulch]

delete bolt action long ammo from the game and boom instant diversity.

[solemn bough]

True, but is it enough? I would like to see gameplay would change, at least a bit.

[burnt mulch]

or, if you really want to stick to scarcity as a driver for diversity, making them more expensive would accomplish the same thing with even less effort.

ok but see you're talking about gameplay changes

messing with the gameplay loop at its core.

that's a big deal

[solemn bough]

Why not? I don't want for Hunt to become yet another CoD or Counter Strike. It has potential, so small changes would be welcome (by me). Maybe I ask for too much, but I don't see why we can't hope for some changes.

[burnt mulch]

how would... what's the connection to CoD or CS?

[solemn bough]

I meant that they are stale, straightforward, no excitement after you get used to it, no variations, just kill or be killed

[burnt mulch]

I'm saying that the gameplay loop is a fundamental part of a game and reworking it is hard.

[solemn bough]

I'm not suggesting to rework it entirely. I just suggested to add to the current loop.

[burnt mulch]

and I'm saying that you're severely downplaying the effort required to "just add" what you're suggesting.
I can also say "just nerf" the overperforming guns. It's not quite that easy.

[solemn bough]

I'm not downplaying. I'm a developer myself, so I know more or less what is required. I just use simple language to deliver more information faster.
Saying "nerf" and "balance" is different, don't you think?

Anyway, we are diving into semantics, what about this Idea that you don't particularly like?

[burnt mulch]

I...

I've gone into it multiple times.

[solemn bough]

apart from what you already said

[main cradle]

Can I just be honest?

Locking guns behind rng is just stupid and would harm the gunplay

It’s also pointless as hell

[solemn bough]

actually, you didn't say that you don't like the idea, but you found flaws in the idea which can be fixed. But the idea itself -is it bad or not?

[burnt mulch]

what?

[burnt mulch]

you mean this?

[solemn bough]

Well, I like the idea of rarity. I like to find good weapons and I like the idea that I can lose them, it adds excitement. I also like when a game sometimes (not constantly) forces you to use weapons that you don't use normally. What I suggest maybe is too RNG, but it's not set in stone, a lot of things can be adjusted, added etc.

[burnt mulch]

1. If you lock it behind succeeding in the only objective that there already is, it makes higher end weapons less accessible to players that don't already win.
2. --- moot point, since for some reason you don't believe crytek can balance guns
3. Limiting busiwork still introduces busiwork.

the whole idea is unnecessary to increase weapon diversity, which was the stated reason for the change in the first place. The gameplay loop works and is good, don't fuck with it.

[main cradle]

Adding gun rarity to hunt

Is only gonna piss everyone off

[burnt mulch]

If it's a matter of using weapons that you don't use normally, then I suggest playing an actual looter-shooter.

or just.. use a different loadout

or play quickplay

[solemn bough]

You are not answering my question - do you like the idea in general or not? If not, then there is no point in discussing it because you will keep finding ways to not make it work, instead of actually figuring out - how would this (or similar) system actually make the game better.
If you do like it, then dissecting my suggestions without any constructive arguments is pointless.

[burnt mulch]

so I'm only allowed to discuss your idea if I like it already? lol

I don't like it. That's why I'm arguing against it.

[main cradle]

I know, shocking

I’m absolutely baffled

[burnt mulch]

sorry I'm not acting like the echo chamber you expected?

[solemn bough]

You may like the idea but not the elements of it

[burnt mulch]

but do I have to like your idea in order to discuss it?

[solemn bough]

I guess you can

[main cradle]

That’s not. I.

If he don’t like the elements of the idea

Aka the meat of the idea

Then I think it’s clear as day he doesn’t like the idea

[burnt mulch]

if you can't refine the elements of your idea in a way that fixes the problems that I point out, then was it a good idea in the first place?

it's the elements of the idea that support liking the idea or not, not the other way around

or, let's put it this way, I appreciate that you are trying to improve weapon diversity. I don't agree with how you're trying to do it.

[solemn bough]

I was just hoping that this would be more of a constructive discussion, as I have in my office. Obviously that was an honest mistake. So lets take this back to the idea.

1. If you lock it behind succeeding in the only objective that there already is, it makes higher end weapons less accessible to players that don't already win.
   Well, there has to be some reward and reason for the players to go for bounty, instead of going for loot runs. Currently, there is no reason to go for bounty other than fights and money, which as you said earlier - not really that important.
2. --- moot point, since for some reason you don't believe crytek can balance guns
   Fair enough. I also don't see it as something that would make the game as exciting as my way of seeing it.
3. Limiting busiwork still introduces busiwork.
   Define busiwork. If you have one cache that opens up with bounty at the Boss location, how much work would that add?

[main cradle]

Wow

[burnt mulch]

sorry that you don't think disagreeing with an idea is constructive?

lmao

way to go full passive-aggressive

[solemn bough]

my bad, wasnt intended
[I mean seriously, to me constructive discussion is when people that I work with, who disagree, present alternative solutions, workarounds, improve on the idea etc etc. Honestly didn't intend it as passive aggressive.]

[burnt mulch]

1. If you don't think that going for fights and money is important, then you're kind of missing the point. Playing for money isn't very important for sustaining guns precisely because people get money by default by actually playing the objective (i.e. playing the game). The fights are the draw of the game in the first place, and whatever your definition of winning is (clearing the server, surviving, escaping with bounty, etc), you get money as a side product.
2. The "excitement" of carrying loot/expensive loadouts just isn't something that is emphasized in Hunt by virtue of its design. You're arguing to change the design, which I already went over is harder than you're making it out to be, compared to working within the confines of its existing design.
3. Sure, if you implement it like that, then it won't introduce much busiwork. Instead it'll implement RNG in whether or not you get the guns you want, and fairly significant RNG since that's extremely limiting, on top of fighting over it with your teammates.

the alternative solution I presented was 1. balancing the game or 2. using price as a diversity driver.
I'm not improving on your idea, because I don't think it can be improved.

[solemn bough]

1. I didn't say that fights are not important, they obviously are so I see your point but it's not against what I think. I only meant money, but only from the point of view of economy.
2. I don't call for "loot" excitement, and it's not like this would be the sole reason to be excited about the game. This would be part of the SAME game, it just changes it, makes it varied, a bit different. How is that bad or wrong?
   Also, why do you think it's so hard to implement? It's not like it required any new development resources to make it. It's not going to be easy, not a days or months work, but the devs are already working on things, why not work on something that would add more to the game. And I don't see it as an argument at all. If the devs see it as a good idea, they will make it. If not, then not. We just have to figure out if it's a good idea

[burnt mulch]

Nothing about your idea is inherently tied to the idea of making the game more varied.
Like I said, you can accomplish the same thing by balancing existing guns or changing their price.

[solemn bough]

Very exciting

[burnt mulch]

what about your idea makes things more "exciting"?

[main cradle]

What ya asking man

Is that we lock off some guns

And then people will be so fin that they can’t use a bolt action

Is that the whole basis?

Cause that’s not gonna idk, balance out a mosin you find in match

[solemn bough]

I've played a few games where things are limited and where things are abundant (easily accessible). The limited version was always more exciting. ALWAYS. The question is in how you present these limitations.

[burnt mulch]

so it's the presentation of locking guns behind finding bounty and opening an RNG cache, vs the presentation of locking guns behind money (which is mainly locked behind finding bounty)?

[solemn bough]

It's only one thing

How about finding weapons? Isn't that exiting?

You can also do quests to get the weapon you want

[burnt mulch]

I don't think that I can really say finding weapons is inherently exciting. It can easily become frustrating if you can't find the weapons you like. For people who enjoy that kind of "use what you find" gameplay, it might be more exciting?
I can't say I like the quest idea because that dilutes PvE objectives, which again dilutes PvP.

I'm not against having world loot be a little more plentiful/varied (and more focused in particular locations rather than haphazard), but I don't think that really increases weapon diversity.

[solemn bough]

More like it would be more exciting when you actually find the weapon you want.
And the quests are already there, they already give out weapons. I think your problem with this is not the weapons given by completing quests, but actual design of the quests.

[burnt mulch]

That kind of logic is how we got "pride and accomplishment"...
The current summon system works fine. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

[main cradle]

They are revamping questions btw

[burnt mulch]

what'd they do?

[main cradle]

There’s tiers and all

[solemn bough]

I meant that if you want for PvE to still be the main goal and not "players chasing quests", then quest design should well thought out

[main cradle]

More fleshed out, more idk, compelling

[burnt mulch]

that's not what I meant at all.
I meant that the PvE should be mainly directed towards the clues and bosses, since that's the main driver for PvP and the game's loop. If the PvE quest objectives are too rewarding or too separate from that main objective, it detracts from the main gameplay loop.

[solemn bough]

I know, that's what I mean
edit: I know what you meant, that's why I said quest design is important

[burnt mulch]

?

[main cradle]

?

[burnt mulch]

if quests and world loot are reworked to be some of the main ways to acquire specific weapons, would that not be a dilution of game objectives?

[solemn bough]

Again, It depends on the quest design.

[main cradle]

No it really doesn’t.

Locking guns behind a quest isn’t something that’ll work in hunt.

Nor would it even fit the lore

[burnt mulch]

currently, the game works around being able to buy everything with money, which is the main way to acquire weapons.
In order for quests and world loot to become the main ways to acquire weapons, that would have to be nerfed, which indirectly nerfs the incentive to go for bounty.

[solemn bough]

Why wouldn't it fit in the lore? It's a lawless land, a disease is spreading, people don't have enough resources to produce every weapon they want? They only way is to make some quests for rich people or to find it in the cursed lands. It fits perfectly.

[main cradle]

….

[burnt mulch]

and if quests are designed in such a way that they incentivize going for bounty anyway, then what's the difference of just having the bounty give you money to buy what you wanted?

[main cradle]

Have you even

Read

The gunner runners bio?

They get the guns from over seas

That’s how they got the lebel

[burnt mulch]

tbh you could totally mangle the lore or whatever.

it's not that much of a stretch

[solemn bough]

It's a fictional story, you can write any kind of lore to suit your needs, and that GR story doesn't actually guarantee abundance.

[solemn bough]

True, that's why I was contemplating if quests should even be in the game.

[burnt mulch]

quests are just a way for people who like filling checkboxes to get a sense of progression from a game that doesn't really have one. Like prestige and mastery.

and also a way to incentivize weekly play for the 25bb lol

[solemn bough]

I don't even do them, but I thought that it would be good to give people at least some opportunity to get the weapon they wanted. At least sometimes.

Assuming devs would implement my idea

[burnt mulch]

I don't really see where this fits into the "weapon diversity" angle though.

except for, I guess, creating an avenue for people to play hardcore mode hunt (tm) and play without buying weapons, like you can do in EFT or TCF

which isn't exactly weapon diversity but more like supporting a different form of gameplay.

kinda fun tho

[solemn bough]

Weapon diversity would come by limiting access which would incentivize people to use different (lower tier) weapons while also using higher tier weapons they find in raid. Have to use what you can.

A hardcore mode would be fine with me. But just to be clear, you CAN buy weapons in EFT, I think the best weapons can only be bought

[burnt mulch]

just to be clear, we're now back on the topic of removing the high end guns from the store.

[solemn bough]

Not removing, reducing accessibility

[burnt mulch]

(and I was speaking of hardcore mode as a self-imposed challenge, which is possible in EFT/TCF)

so what exactly is "reducing accessibility"? because that sounds to me like "adjust the prices".

[solemn bough]

In my suggestion post I mentioned that not ALL weapons should be removed (including top tier) and also that the system could be dynamic, meaning, the accessible weapons could change from time to time

Prices give access to players who have a lot of money. Removing weapons from store would remove that freedom from players who have money

And balancing prices is complicated because you have to balance it for all players, those who suck, mediocre, those who play a lot and those who always win. Not an easy task

With limited access, low lvl low MMR people would still be able to find high tier weapons while "rich" players would be limited and not run around with the same kits

[burnt mulch]

sorry I just really want to point out
"not removing"
"removing weapons from store"

anyway

[solemn bough]

yeah, I've noticed that too

With the dynamic system that I mentioned, it would also be possible to remove long ammo rifle, shotguns... anything. Just for fun

[burnt mulch]

I really can't imagine that limiting player agency by forcing them to use weapons that they don't want to and can't progress to a point where they can, is better than increasing player agency by making more choices viable.

[solemn bough]

Now that I think about it, the dynamic weapons system would be enough on it's own. It would completely remove access to some weapons, but that would be worth it and temporary.

[solemn bough]

More choices like what?

[burnt mulch]

the reason weapon diversity is (or at least is perceived to be) low is because long ammo bolt action rifles are dominant. This is due to many things, but people don't choose other things because they're just worse.

by reducing the dominance of the most powerful guns, less powerful guns become more viable

and by increasing the power of the least powerful guns, they become more of a consideration.

[main cradle]

But locking them behind rng and quests will only make people hate using less powerful guns cause they’ll feel like they’re stuck with it

[frosty garnet]

@jovial saddle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Titel: Finishing Boss entrys in the Book of Monsters

Idea: If you finshed for exaple the Butchers entry could you give us a Meele tool baseed on him(Heavy Knife - Butchers Meathook)
Or for the Spider(Knife - Spider fang)```

[solemn bough]

But that's the beauty of it, everyone will play with less powerful guns and only a few lucky will manage to find something better

[main cradle]

Do you not see how

Fucked that is?

Limiting it to a few players will Ahem

Cause stigma

Worse than the long ammo meta

It’ll only make things worse

Toxic, acidic

[burnt mulch]

so, here's the thing. are we locking out high end guns or just a random-ass selection of guns?

[solemn bough]

I guess that's up to the dev team. I think locking the most "abused" weapons would make sense, so high end guns with some mid range?

[main cradle]

Ok so

Lock out 25% of the guns

Got it

Devs will love that

[solemn bough]

What do you suggest?

[burnt mulch]

I really don't see how locking high-end guns behind RNG is better than just removing them from the game in the first place, or nerfing them so that they're in-line with other guns.

or decreasing their availability via price

[solemn bough]

Price will change nothing, only hurt the players who don't play a lot

[main cradle]

Nothing. I don’t suggest anything other than what ya propose doesn’t change how long ammo works, how slugs work, how anything works

Cause as you say

A few lucky hunters will have them

Not only that, but you’re right up telling the devs to toss out all their hard work on the guns.

[burnt mulch]

I'm not really following. wouldn't my income and the cost of running expensive loadouts both scale with how often I play?

[solemn bough]

By changing the price (I assume make certain weapons more expensive) you lock out the player base that doesn't play a lot or successfully enough. They are already limited, and with this change they will be even more limited.

[solemn bough]

You would be part of the few lucky people, wouldn't you? Any random player would be able to find good weapon instead of only players who have exorbitant amounts of money.

[burnt mulch]

you lock out the player base that doesn't play a lot
right, but this is what I don't understand. If I earn X per game and my loadout costs Y, then they'd both be multiplied by the amount of games that I play, no?

whether I play more doesn't really matter, it's the ratio of games that I play cheap loadouts vs expensive loadouts.

[main cradle]

Which makes them, in a sense, better than everyone else

It’s unfair, it doesn’t change the guns stats

All you are saying, is that leave it up to rng

Guns, you know, the things you use to kill people in the game

Locked behind rng

Do you not see how everyone, no matter what stance they have, will send this whole idea to trash?

[solemn bough]

It's unfair as opposed to what? The current system where everyone can buy everything and premade teams with fully loaded kits can run around? At least with RNG the possibility to create such a team is not going to be common.

[main cradle]

Locking guns behind rng ain’t the answer. All that’ll do is kill the player base. Flatlining it

[burnt mulch]

honestly I just think it's not very fun.
unless you go around looking for these restricted weapons, you're not going to get them. And if you don't like going around looking for them, which is quite easily a chore, you are at a disadvantage.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I don't like anything that heavily depends on RNG

Just annoying as hell

[solemn bough]

Almost any online battle royale currently on the market has weapon RNG system and people are fine with it. I'm not sure I know what you are talking about.

[main cradle]

Like with dualies, that’s fine rng cause ya just rapid fire, ya shots

[burnt mulch]

and even if you do go around looking for them but you got fucked by RNG, you're shit out of luck and you're out a bunch of time.

[main cradle]

…

[burnt mulch]

yeah well I don't play those battle royale games, do I? I play hunt.

I don't play quickplay, eh?

[main cradle]

Really man?

[trail carbon]

I... Don't think people are fine with it though

[main cradle]

[trail carbon]

Everyone I know that used to play those games now plays hunt because they don't like rng

[solemn bough]

That's not the point, is it? People play those games and don't complain about RNG, so how do you know people would complain about it in HUNT?

[solemn bough]

I dont believe you

[burnt mulch]

because Hunt isn't a battle royale, where everyone's progress is wiped every time you start a new game?

while you can draw parallels between Hunt and BRs, Hunt is an extraction shooter.

[main cradle]

Hunt ain’t a battle royale. It’s literally what potato said

[trail carbon]

Because in, say, Fortnite for example, it's a core gameplay mechanic for those weapons to be RNG. Same for quick play. Ever wonder about any of the reasons quick play isn't popular?

[burnt mulch]

if you want to play "play what you get" and do battle royale stuff, you can play quickplay, which is pretty much catered to that kind of gameplay.

[solemn bough]

I'm not comparing Hunt to BR, I am saying that the system is fairly commonly accepted.

[burnt mulch]

yeah. in a different genre.

where it's a core part of the gameplay loop.

[trail carbon]

But you are quite literally saying that the system would work in hunt because it's a BR despite everyone in this conversation saying they wouldn't like it, and that it wouldn't fit

[solemn bough]

Did I ever suggest a complete RNG system? Where?

[main cradle]

..

You didn’t

[trail carbon]

RNG is not a fun or engaging gameplay mechanic

[main cradle]

You flat out compared hunt to br’s

[burnt mulch]

using BRs to argue for RNG in Hunt is like using TF2 to argue for class abilities in Hunt.

[solemn bough]

Literally said that it would mostly include top tier AND it would be dynamic (change access to different top tier weapons)

[trail carbon]

Personally, I'd like it if shotguns had non-random spread too. That'd how much I hate rng

[burnt mulch]

so we get to use mosin one week and lebel the next?

[solemn bough]

no I didn't

[solemn bough]

I don't know, how would you design it?

[trail carbon]

If weapons are strong enough to need to not be purchasable, then they should be nerfed or removed. Adding RNG to obtaining them isn't going to fix the problem, it's just going to make it more frustrating

[burnt mulch]

I wouldn't. I'd adjust pricing, if I really wanted to hamfistedly change the availability of guns rather than actually balance the game. Takes less effort.
And if I was willing to take the effort to do it right, I'd balance the guns more closely.

[trail carbon]

To be fair, price isn't a real balancing factor in hunt

[solemn bough]

What if it's impossible to "actually balance the game"?

[burnt mulch]

it's not, but it does affect how common things are.

[trail carbon]

Yeah

[trail carbon]

That's a rather silly argument

[burnt mulch]

a pointless question, because it is possible, at least sufficiently so.

[solemn bough]

Because that's the only argument here. Balance the game. The devs keep balancing and the people keep complaining. Then maybe change the approach?

[trail carbon]

Obviously there will never be a "perfect meta" or whatever. But RNG obtaining of weapons isn't going to change anything

[burnt mulch]

the devs don't keep balancing.. they've changed some things but are dancing around long ammo bolt rifles.

[native lodge]

yep

[burnt mulch]

what'd they nerf? 2-slot versions of rifles (lol) and slugs (ehhh)

[trail carbon]

People will always keep complaining. There's always room for improvement. It's not going to be perfect. They also don't really change weapon balance that much at all

[main cradle]

People complain on the server for the sake of complaining

[trail carbon]

Adding the Slate and New Army isn't a balance change

[main cradle]

In the end, it’s petty as hell most of the time

[trail carbon]

That too

[main cradle]

New army was a nice addition

But the low MV just baffles me

[trail carbon]

I personally think New Army is very strong, but most people don't share that opinion for some reason

[main cradle]

Bruh, it’s what I use for my berthier

[trail carbon]

MV makes it basically only close range, but it spits bullets out so fast it's ridiculous

[main cradle]

It’s a fun gun that needs a swift variant

[burnt mulch]

it's ok. competes pretty well with the other fast-firing pistols.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, more bullet always means strong in hunt

[burnt mulch]

I dunno if I want a swift on anything fast and halfway decent.

[trail carbon]

Except for the bornheim

[solemn bough]

So let me get this straight. The devs don't really change or balance anything and you still are waiting for them to change and balance the game?

[burnt mulch]

bornheim: built-in swift, still shit

[main cradle]

Match is where it at tho

[trail carbon]

Y..yes?

[burnt mulch]

I don't think the devs are doing a good job of balancing.
I think balancing is the best way to solve weapon diversity.
These are not conflicting opinions.

[solemn bough]

I dont think they want to

[burnt mulch]

well now we're just trying to read crytek's mind.

[trail carbon]

Are you saying that waiting for change is bad? You think that because your change ideas are different that they get more priority?

What are you saying

[burnt mulch]

"my idea is better because crytek hasn't been doing the actually better idea"?

[solemn bough]

I'm saying that waiting for a specific kind of change when it is clear it's not going to happen is insane

[trail carbon]

We get balancing changes, just very slowly

It's not a specific kind of change either

Balance is a very broad category

And uh, that category is pretty important in a competitive game

[main cradle]

We play this game, cause despite the flaws

We can acknowledge that the devs you know, have other things in mind. Have their own ideas, they are their own people

Changes come.

What ya saying is flat false

[burnt mulch]

whether or not crytek implements an idea (and how they do so) doesn't make the idea itself better or worse.

[solemn bough]

That's not the problem

[burnt mulch]

unless you think crytek can do no wrong.

[trail carbon]

You are probably one of the few people that view RNG in a positive light, just so you're aware

The more things that are in my control, the more fun I have

[burnt mulch]

eh I can see where RNG can be fun, and it is necessary to a degree.

[trail carbon]

Dying to long ammo is annoying right

Imagine if it could only be obtained by luck

Even more infuriating

[solemn bough]

It depends on RNG. You view my suggestion as if I want to make the whole weapon system rng. Which I didn't.

[trail carbon]

Well, yeah, some games do RNG well

[trail carbon]

No, you said tier 3 weapons

Which includes most, if not all, long ammo guns

[main cradle]

Sometimes rng can work

But only in terms of lets say, AI placement and etc

[solemn bough]

I also mentioned a dynamic system,which I guess went over your head?

[trail carbon]

Yeah, RNG is fine in things that wouldn't make sense to be player controlled, like AI placement

[main cradle]

But ya, slapping literally 25% of guns used under some damn scavenger hunt is just

[burnt mulch]

the dynamic system is just "lebel week, mosin week, bertier week, lebel week..."

[trail carbon]

No, it's just that dynamic system doesn't mean anything when you say it

[burnt mulch]

oh, and sometimes I can't use my crossbow just because

[solemn bough]

Why would you think that way?

[burnt mulch]

because the meta is still the meta...

[trail carbon]

Don't worry, that's already a feature right now

[solemn bough]

You can literally design the system the way you want and you chose that?

[main cradle]

There’s no defined meta

There’s a common but nothing defined.

[burnt mulch]

if long bolt action rifles is dominating, then whenever any long bolt action rifle is available, it will dominate.

so unless you lock out the entire top end, people will keep buying it.

[trail carbon]

Ok. Explain your "dynamic system" then

[solemn bough]

Read it above or in a suggestion section

[burnt mulch]

and if you do lock out the entire top end, then you are locking the highest end guns behind RNG.

[main cradle]

So this.

…

Raid ain’t the right word man

[burnt mulch]

wow look at that. the "top tier weapons".
like lebel, mosin, and berthier?

[solemn bough]

Semantics

[main cradle]

It’s a hunt

[main cradle]

Every slug bullet

[trail carbon]

Man, so it's almost like the dynamic system, is exactly what we thought was

[solemn bough]

Well, I literally just (at the moment of writing it) concocted that idea, some thing changed over our few hour lasting discussion, dont you think?

[main cradle]

…

[burnt mulch]

why don't you describe your system, that

1. doesn't involve "long ammo bolt action rifle of the week"
2. doesn't involve locking out every long ammo bolt action rifle behind RNG
   ?

spoiler, you can't, because if 1+ are available, you get #1, and if 0 are available, you get #2.

[solemn bough]

Why would I do that? You can lock them out of the shop but make them lootable. It will be less annoying and will give people a chance to use an op weapon when they find it from time to time

[burnt mulch]

that's #2.

locking them behind RNG

[trail carbon]

Why not just make it less powerful then

[solemn bough]

nvm

[burnt mulch]

so just balance them in the first place.

[solemn bough]

no

leave them be

let them be op but hard to find

[main cradle]

[trail carbon]

Just bring long ammo closer to medium and compact and bam, problem solved

[solemn bough]

well, maybe not op

[trail carbon]

There is currently no downside to long ammo

[burnt mulch]

they arguably are op already.

[solemn bough]

true

[trail carbon]

Just screw over the long ammo reserve ammo pool

[burnt mulch]

and leaving them OP is literally what we're trying to argue against.
locking power behind RNG.

[solemn bough]

I wouldn't say op, just more annoying than the rest

[trail carbon]

That's one way

There's plenty of ways to balance long ammo

[main cradle]

On a standpoint, the range of LA is sorta ok. Maybe lower it by a bit, tweak the damage

Honestly I just would suggest a medium ammo buff to make it well, middle of the road. Able to compete with long ammo, that stuff

[trail carbon]

Locking the guns behind RNG is quite literally the opposite of that

[burnt mulch]

they're common because they're OP, not the other way around.
how many people bring a gun doesn't affect how strong it is.

[solemn bough]

but why they are so OP? Maybe they are just too common?

[trail carbon]

I think we should bring all the guns closer together in effectiveness and have them be in their own niches

[late wind]

You've got it backwards. They're common because they're OP.

[trail carbon]

They are common because they are strong

[main cradle]

…

[trail carbon]

Not the other way around

[main cradle]

FUUUUUUCK

[dense schooner]

I would say buff medium ammo and slash the long ammo reserves / ammo resupplies

[burnt mulch]

unless they have some form of inherent synergy. Which arguably they do, but only in the sense that your entire team is doing the same thing.

[dense schooner]

The sparks pistol was literally just a long ammo buff

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I like that one

[solemn bough]

I know ,I get the point. What I'm trying to say that maybe they SHOULD be OP, just limited

[main cradle]

Yeah. Literally this just works

[trail carbon]

The other idea I'm on the fence about is separating pistol and rifle ammo pools

Because I like it, but I hate it

[main cradle]

We need a medium ammo buff more than a long ammo nerf. Ofc it’s my opinion

[trail carbon]

Yeah, medium ammo is barely compact+

[main cradle]

But its been a while since medium ammo got well, any attention

[late wind]

I tried advocating that long pistols not feed long rifles but noooo. Everyone needs their crutch.

[trail carbon]

Nothing should be op in a competitive shooter

[dense schooner]

I think the only issue with long ammo is how easy it is to amass reserves, even easier now with the sparks pistol, but yes, medium ammo definitely needs more love

[trail carbon]

That's just common sense

"oops, you lost because that guy over there got lucky!"

[solemn bough]

you would be surprized

[trail carbon]

Tell me a competitive shooter where op stuff is a positive thing

[late wind]

Okay by that logic half of the stuff in Hunt needs to go away completely.

[trail carbon]

If you say a BR, I walk

[main cradle]

It’s been around 4 hours.. of this.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I don't like some of the stuff in hunt that's like that. Like the frag bomb

[burnt mulch]

yeah I'm seriously getting tired of saying "power should not be locked behind RNG"

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I don't think there's an actual discussion to be had here

[main cradle]

There hasn’t been one for 3 hours

[trail carbon]

Hilarious

[main cradle]

It’s just ping pong at this point

But not fun

[trail carbon]

Didn't realize I joined that late. Thought it was at the beginning when I hopped in

[main cradle]

He posted his idea at 10am est

[trail carbon]

oh

[late wind]

What's even the point? I just showed up.

[trail carbon]

Read Chronos's most recent suggestion

[solemn bough]

Can't say it's a "positive", but definitely not negative. Almost all rare weapons in PUBG are op, but they are rare. Same with Fortnite, EFT, Apex. Not every OP item is OP, but I don't see how weapons in Hunt are so absurdly OP to be literally ruining games. As most of you here said before, you want medium weapons to have more punch.

[burnt mulch]

PUBG: BR
Fortnite: BR
EFT: progression-based
Apex: BR

[solemn bough]

And?

[main cradle]

The fuck is eft

[burnt mulch]

escape from tarkov

[main cradle]

…

[trail carbon]

Escape From Tarkov

[main cradle]

Getting the everclear

[trail carbon]

Tarkov has horrible balancing to be fair

Late wipe is just anti fun

[burnt mulch]

and they're different games. that work off of different core principles.

[solemn bough]

Again with your strawman arguments. It's not about the kind of games. The question was -what games have OP weapons that are not hated

[atomic cipher]

"I don't see how weapons in Hunt are so absurdly OP to be literally ruining games." Yeah right. Compared to any other gun Dolch and avto are super balanced 😄

[trail carbon]

How is this a straw man argument

[solemn bough]

And yeah, Tarkov might have been a bad example

[main cradle]

Bruh who the hell uses dolch except for me

Cause I bought all the dolch skins

[trail carbon]

Dolch got nerfed pretty hard a while ago, it's still a high rof gun

Avto is a slightly better shotgun

[main cradle]

Yeah but people

[solemn bough]

Played literally 3 last days straight, never had any problems apart from desycn/latency.

[main cradle]

This actually made me laugh.

[trail carbon]

Sparks pistol gave avto a pretty good biff

[atomic cipher]

slightly better shotgun..... Okay, brother, nothing to discuss here

[main cradle]

Like all I can see now is just massive auto shotty

[late wind]

Fuck it. AA-12 when?

[main cradle]

Nah not that there’s another

[trail carbon]

Wait, did they ever get rid of the random spread on the avto?

[burnt mulch]

horizontal spread is still random

vertical spread is.. slightly random?

[trail carbon]

Ok

[burnt mulch]

er

recoil.

wait did you mean recoil or just plain first shot inaccuracy

cuz it's still got random inaccuracy yeah

[trail carbon]

Avto has actual inaccurate shots

[burnt mulch]

ye

[trail carbon]

Ok good

Because if that ever goes away...

There's gonna be hell to pay

Personally I think the avto is kinda stupid

But I don't think it's super op or anything

You cannot fight at range with it, which is where most of my gunfights happen anyways

[burnt mulch]

well it was supposed to be balanced around ammo pool and/or having a useless sidearm

[trail carbon]

Yeah

But sparks pistol

Haha

[main cradle]

Cause people spam it so it’s full auto. Which honestly ruins the fact it’s more of an ambush gun

[solemn bough]

How many bullets sparks pistol adds?

[burnt mulch]

14 reserve

[trail carbon]

28 if you have two of them

So you no longer need to take ammo boxes with the avto

[late wind]

30 if they're unloaded.

[burnt mulch]

man there's no reason that single shot guns should have better resupply than multi-shot guns.

they're already shot-efficient in the first place.

[trail carbon]

I think the sparks pistol should just have 9 reserve

You get more damage, but less ammo

Not more damage and more ammo

[burnt mulch]

base single shot ammo should go down in general, with split ammo raising the total count a little.

[trail carbon]

Stupid

[main cradle]

I think they matched the ammo count for the base sparks

[trail carbon]

They did

[main cradle]

Yeah and I’m like

Ok

[burnt mulch]

they nerfed it by 2 for the pistol version

[main cradle]

They basically take the same cartridge but yaaa

[trail carbon]

Oh wow

[main cradle]

Least a bit less ammo

[burnt mulch]

a whopping 2

[trail carbon]

Two whole less shots

[main cradle]

But fr.. this whole 5 hours of, this

[burnt mulch]

more like 3, really, but I'm hopped up on adderall and caffeine rn

I should get some work done

[dense schooner]

It still blows my mind often you only get one round from regular ammo boxes with the lebel

[trail carbon]

That should be the norm for long ammo

Not the exception

Less ammo should be long ammos downside

[main cradle]

You should get two with the lebel cause of the mag size

[burnt mulch]

nah it's a range

you totally get 1 sometimes

it's really good ™

[trail carbon]

Don't worry, I promise the mosin isn't better in every way

[main cradle]

Tbh

[burnt mulch]

b-but muzzle velocity

[main cradle]

I mostly use the lebel

[trail carbon]

Oh man, that extra 2 meters per second is really gonna help

[main cradle]

Mosin sights ain’t my jam that much

[burnt mulch]

[trail carbon]

Fun fact, the lebel actually bolts slightly slower than the mosin

[main cradle]

Ik that

I just use it cause I got swan song

[trail carbon]

You can fire 10 shots with the mosin faster than the lebel

I believe it's almost 2 seconds faster

[main cradle]

Yeah man I know but like

It’s just my preference

[trail carbon]

What if we took away the mosins stripper clip

[dense schooner]

I can take all of its cons for the sweet aperture sight

[trail carbon]

Oh, I agree. The lebel is way cooler

[solemn bough]

Then that wouldnt be mosin

[trail carbon]

I use the lebel

[main cradle]

Ya. The mosin just idk. Like… I mean…

Bayonet.. wooo

[trail carbon]

Marksman is better than sniper too

Sniper is too situational

[main cradle]

The obrez is nice tho, especially mace and yeah

[trail carbon]

Unless you're using centennial sniper. Push buildings with that shit. Be the American the Japanese think you are

[main cradle]

The marksman scope is well

It fits the style of hunt more so

[trail carbon]

The things I want to see out of hunt is
1: change concertina. Don't care how, just tired of seeing it spammed everywhere
2: Long ammo nerf of some kind
3: medium ammo buff. Give it actual pen and velocity
4: Specter Marksman. C'mon guys, I neeeeeed it

[solemn bough]

1. Price increase, I guess?
2. see 3
3. If you buff medium ammo and nerf long ammo, wouldn’t that mean that people will mostly buy medium ammo weapons?
4. Sure, why not

[trail carbon]

Price isn't a balance factor.
Yes, I would like to see medium and compact ammo used more

[burnt mulch]

improve explosives' radius of concertina destruction. increase range at which melee weapons can destroy concertina. decrease range that players trigger concertina when crouching.

I swear sometimes I throw a dynamite directly into concertina and it just shrugs it off. big suck.

[solemn bough]

that could work too

but also could make concertina useless

[trail carbon]

Compact ammo is low damage, low velocity, but has high ammo count.
Medium ammo is basically compact ammo but with way less ammo and slightly better damage and velocity.
Long ammo has about the same amount of ammo as medium, but has amazing pen, damage, and velocity.
I think all of these should have upsides and downsides

And long ammo just doesnt

[burnt mulch]

not really. it just means concertina has some actual consistent counterplay.

[trail carbon]

Make explosives destroy traps instead of setting them off

[burnt mulch]

hm.

[trail carbon]

That way, it doesn't cost two explosives to remove one concertina trap

[burnt mulch]

well you could trigger the trap by shooting it

speaking of which, that ought to be more consistent.

[trail carbon]

If you have long ammo or it's in the open

[burnt mulch]

why can I only hit the one particular bit of the trap to actually set it off

[trail carbon]

Often it's behind a wall at windows or something else

[solemn bough]

I mean, if you make one or two of those things, then yea, but explosive destruction range, melee range, decrease trigger range. A bit too much?

[burnt mulch]

not really.

[solemn bough]

cool

[trail carbon]

No, traps are super annoying, and should have several counterplay options

[burnt mulch]

melee range and decreased trigger range are basically one thing, make melee a viable counter

[solemn bough]

no, they are not

[trail carbon]

Yeah, getting executed because you decided to melee a trap sucks

[burnt mulch]

explosive destruction range is just "make a single explosive actually clear a single concertina bomb"

wdym they're not lol

[trail carbon]

Maybe also make concertina traps have a single use

[burnt mulch]

I think 2 uses is probably fine

[trail carbon]

Because as it stands, a single tool requires two consumables to counter

[solemn bough]

they are not the same. Melee range adds range to your weapons, but if you are not hitting it, then it's your body, this is where decreasing trigger is different

[burnt mulch]

...?

what?

[trail carbon]

Well you can't melee the wire if you can't get close to it, can you

[burnt mulch]

the point is to have a sufficient gap between the range at which you can melee concertina and the range at which you touch it

[solemn bough]

Sure, but that's why you have melee range increased. How does that relate to trigger range

In programming terms, those are two completely different things

Even in gameplay they are different

[burnt mulch]

they accomplish similar purposes.

[trail carbon]

Also, can we have concertina not go through solid surfaces

[burnt mulch]

if I can't reach a shelf, then I can either get a stool to raise myself, or reposition the shelf so that it's lower.
they both accomplish the goal of reaching the shelf.

[trail carbon]

I know it's probably a hard thing to fix, but it'd be nice

[solemn bough]

sure, when you want to destroy them, but as a trap, trigger range is very important as a separate entity

[burnt mulch]

I'm talking about the concertina wire itself.

[trail carbon]

He's not talking about trigger range

[solemn bough]

I know

[burnt mulch]

?

[solemn bough]

I know that you talk about about the wire itself

[burnt mulch]

as a trap, trigger range is very important as a separate entity

[trail carbon]

Then...? What's the problem exactly?

[solemn bough]

That's why it's important. If you have melee range increased, you don't have to come close to the wire to "cut " it

Butif you also decrease the trigger range (when it bleeds you), then you also nerf the trap itself

[burnt mulch]

if I can't reach a shelf, then I can either get a stool to raise myself, or reposition the shelf so that it's lower.
they both accomplish the goal of reaching the shelf.

[trail carbon]

Yeah, nerfing it is indeed the goal here

[burnt mulch]

and that's also partially why I said while crouching.

concertina should be more consistent in general.

[trail carbon]

Also, let every ammo type shoot through it for gods sake

[solemn bough]

why while crouching would it have a longer trigger range if you already have a longer range on your weapon?

[trail carbon]

It's a tiny piece of metal, why can long ammo and fmjs only shoot through it

[burnt mulch]

what?

dude I'm just approaching a problem from two different angles

how is this hard to understand

[solemn bough]

And I told you to choose one of them
how hard is it to understand

[burnt mulch]

why do I have to choose one?

[trail carbon]

Both. Both is good

[solemn bough]

Because otherwise it would make concertina obsolete

[trail carbon]

Good

[burnt mulch]

no, because the magnitude of both can be adjusted...

tf

[trail carbon]

But it also wont

[solemn bough]

If you don't like concertina in general, then that's a different discussion

[trail carbon]

I don't think so

I've stated why I don't like it, and how it could be fixed, and here we are

[burnt mulch]

literally do both except less than if you were to do one individually.

how tf is this hard to understand

I got myself a small stool and lowered the shelf a little

?????

[trail carbon]

What

Dude are you ok

[solemn bough]

You said they are the same, which they are not. How hard is it to understand? If you want to use them both, then say so from the start instead of insulting people. HoW HaRd To uNdERsTanD