feedback-discussion

[nova canyon]

you know that camping the body is actually securing the revive right ?

[bronze quail]

First try to cover the body, if it's impossible to push or the body is on a position that can't be covered you just have to accept the revive and play 3v2.5.
After killing someone the best thing to do is being aggressive (not pushing blind like an idiot), immediately take a position, if possible, where the body can be covered and take positions where you can put pressure to the enemy. If the body is on a position that can't be covered if you are close enough you can gain time by throwing something over the body like a chocke bomb for example.
Putting pressure is the most important thing to do but is not easy and you need to have a good game sense and knowledge of the game game to be able to read properly every situation.

[feral timber]

then you're out of the fight too

[nova canyon]

you are not ? if people try to revive, you can just put fire at them and pop them off wtf

[burnt mulch]

1. What drawbacks are those?
2. Then it should be the best fallback weapon in the game within 60m.
3. You said that most kills are headshots, so if you miss a headshot just shoot again to the head.
4. Again, by your logic, just land the second headshot.
5. Just headshot them, right? If they’re within 60m, then the bornheim gives you more chances to headshot than any other gun.
6. Track? Almost all pistols (maybe all of them) have the same sway.
7. But there’s a reason why they don’t work in practice. What is that reason?
8. What’s so unreliable about it?

[wind stream]

My team usually tried to close in while having at least one player with los on the body

if that is not possible we try to close the distance quickly to get the advantage of a 3v2

[feral timber]

This is fair, I just feel less rewarded for the kill, it makes me feel like it was never worth giving away my position in the first place and my skill/luck in getting the kill was for naught, hence why I'd prefer it be more punishing when someone fucks up and dies.

[frozen swift]

i can answer #6 immediately in the fact that tracking is harder due to recoil

[burnt mulch]

the more you argue the more you backtrack on how easy headshots are to land.

[bronze quail]

A 3v2 is an huge advantage, but you need to be fast, there is no time for crouching and camping an angle for hours

[burnt mulch]

if headshots are so easy, you dont need a second shot, and if you do, you have the option to shoot slower than the firerate to reset your aim.

[feral timber]

This kind of comment annoys me because I don't understand how, there is no elaboration, it's like a personal attack under the guise of a counter point

[burnt mulch]

it’s not a personal attack. A lot of your points are just non-points. You say it’s unreliable but you can’t describe why?

[feral timber]

it's more so the 3v2.5 I don't like, I'd rather it be a hard confirmed 3v2, if I had it my way bodies would have a revive timer where you'd have to wait a good while before you can revive... but that's too controversial

[burnt mulch]

I am directly attacking your points. If you cannot defend, then they weren’t good points to begin with.

[frozen swift]

dude damn you would be well off taking a less hostile tone

[feral timber]

I can, but you don't elaborate and just choose not to accept some of my points, and like Ashley said, you have a really hostile tone.

[echo forum]

sometimes hostility comes into tone when someone is too thickheaded to get the point

[frozen swift]

and a personal attack

very nice

[burnt mulch]

any hostility you perceive is imagined, and beside the point. focus on what I’m saying.

[burnt mulch]

What am I not elaborating?

[echo forum]

how else would I word it when the guy refuses all advice and keeps saying " well they should still be down longer!? If I snipe them why can they be rezzed before

I can run 100m to kill their team!

[burnt mulch]

And I don’t accept your points because they have holes in them.

[frozen swift]

now for posterity i have not followed this entire argument

[bronze quail]

When you kill someone you already have and huge advantage and is up to you being able to capitalize the kill. If you kill someone you can't expect to have all the time you want for doing all you want. You have to be fast, and trust me, 90% of the times if you know how to move you can win the fight and you can block the revive

[frozen swift]

but @echo forum you could always simply accept they have a different opinion and leave it rather than devolve to personal attacks

[bronze quail]

Obv there are some exceptions, but you can't kill a guy from 200m an expect to have time to push without him being revived

[burnt mulch]

If I’m gonna be frank, Ashley, you can quit reading into people’s text chats and trying to be the local therapist.

[echo forum]

If you called someone too stubborn to take advice and change their approach instead of asking for changes a personal attack?

[lunar kettle]

Even at 60m that isn't an easy task and it shouldn't be an easy task.

[feral timber]

1. Pistols suffer from range, wall pen, sway and handling.
2. That's entirely situational, if the fight is 5 meters the Lemat would be a better fallback weapon.
3. That tends to be what happens... yes... but I refer you back to 1.
4. I'll again refer you back to 1, but also the likelyhood someone has started running, bobbing and weaving now you've already missed.
5. People have WASD on their keyboard.
6. They do not. Can confirm as I use exclusively pistols.
8. It's damage IF you miss that headshot.

[frozen swift]

i do not appreciate joe getting dogpiled and attacked

so no i dont think i will stop talking

take your ad hominems elsewhere

[echo forum]

I think Joe deserves it. I don't usually agree with Potato but Joe is wrong

[burnt mulch]

you’re the one who attacked my character first?

[frozen swift]

@wind stream

[bronze quail]

Yeah obv

[burnt mulch]

lmfao

ok.

[normal horizon]

Cant we all just get along

[unborn smelt]

Bruh guys

[bronze quail]

I like the revive system and i like necro

[unborn smelt]

you're still at this ?

[bronze quail]

Yep

[feral timber]

This tends to be the case, but that other 10% really upsets me haha

[unborn smelt]

Can we at least keep it civil then

Peeps can have their own opinions, that's fine as long as we keep it civil.
If we cannot, then don't continue or the bonking will start

[keen mortar]

Hows about a compromise? Make the res time the same as default bandage. And allow Physician to increase the time to what it is now? Most people take the perk anyway.

[echo forum]

I think balancing with perks too much is bad for the game. More things should be a base part of the game ( fanning, levering, crossbow reload and remove bulwark)

[frozen swift]

I do agree with that a fair bit jakey, though maybe not fanning and levering - perks should be useful but not so essential they encourage solo grinding for levels before doing real matches

[echo forum]

I think if levering and fanning were a base part of the game shotguns wouldn't absolutely dominate compounds the way they currently do

[frozen swift]

the problem is that dominating compounds means nothing if one can simply wait them out

[unborn smelt]

I'd argue shotguns should dominate compounds

[keen mortar]

Fair. I mean, at this point I'll just take increasing the volume of picking someone up, or at least fixing the sound issue.

[unborn smelt]

Because why would one ever bring a loadout with a shotguns that's capped aout at 100 to 130m when they can bring a rifle and fanning and be effective at 300m while still competeing with shotguns

[echo forum]

they should be strong for sure but the way they are now, if a player wanted to play smart they would just not enter the compound if they don't have a shotgun. If you make weapons too strong in their niche then players will simply meta game to only hover in those niches.

[echo forum]

Same reason why you bring uppercute/ sparks pistol with shotgun

[unborn smelt]

meh i gotta disagree there.
Shotguns aren't that opressive in compounds

[bronze quail]

Well this is actually what is happening at the moment

Most of the times*

[feral timber]

This

[unborn smelt]

shotguns have reanges of 10-15m and even bigger buildings far exceed that range

[echo forum]

they are though with slugs 2 tap at 50m to chest lol

[burnt mulch]

1. The range, as we established, is 60m. Wall pen is a fair point, but sway is the same between pistols. Handling is not a useful statistic.
2. But it’s not as good from 5-60m. Would you give that up for a better 5m fight?
3. .. refer back to 1?
4. wtf does refer back to 1 mean
5. So it’s not in fact that easy to headshot someone?
6. Give me a side by side comparison then, because even the caldwell conversion chain pistol has the same sway as a regular conversion.
7. But why does that damage matter if you can just land a headshot?

[unborn smelt]

and fanning on the right pistols, as well as long ammo vs a guy that lost 25 can very much compete with shotguns

[frozen swift]

i think the biggest issue with shotguns in compounds is the fact that you have guns like the slate or crown and king which can very rapidly spam, meaning even if someone misses their first shot or second shot you have no real chance to take advantage of it

[echo forum]

also because of jump peeking a shotgun player will kill you before you can shoot 2 x in a building.

[unborn smelt]

not really an officer 2 taps just the same

[feral timber]

If shotguns should dominate compounds, then if one shotgunner get's themselves killed by someone outside from a long range, I feel like the sieging team need more time to secure the compound

[echo forum]

like I stopped trying to enter a building without a shotgun when I get jump shot by a shotgun and tag their stomach or arm because of the jump while the accuracy penalty doesn't matter for them

[unborn smelt]

and if you picked them off once, long ammo flat out OHK's them

on 45m

[frozen swift]

specter, romero and rival have that perfect balance where they have to really consider their shots

[echo forum]

rival 2 shot very fast though with slugs is one of the easier guns to 50m 2 tap to body

I feel like Romero is the only balanced shotgun tbh

[frozen swift]

nah specter is easily balanced and rival is fearsome but has a really really long reload for just 2 more shots

[burnt mulch]

the only reason the rival is strong with slugs is because of slugs.

[echo forum]

but it doesn't 1 shot to chest at 15m

[echo forum]

everyone basically runs slugs though?

[burnt mulch]

that’s a problem with slugs not the rival.

[frozen swift]

the thing with slugs imo is that you trade consistency up close for damage long-range and i honestly think that it's fine?

[unborn smelt]

true but it headshots to 73 not just 25

and is just a small slot

[echo forum]

consistency is fine just "quickscope" I do it with every weapon anyway from playing other games.

[unborn smelt]

and far cheaper than slugs

[frozen swift]

its not about that its about killing potential

buckshot to the knees if most pellets hit will kill

slug will not

i find myself hitting people in the limbs and having them survive and kill me with slugs significantly more than with buck

[unborn smelt]

no it won't

[burnt mulch]

sure you can argue it takes more skill to use slugs but in the hands of a skilled player, are slugs healthy?

[unborn smelt]

buckshot specifically has exceptionally bad limb modifiers

[echo forum]

but there is a reason nagant officer isn't dominating compounds vs shotguns. Ease of use, jump peeking and completely control of building. You cannot push a shotgun reliably without a shotgun. This is why the game has current problem of long ammo campers outside of compound and shotgun campers trapping up boss lair.

[burnt mulch]

I don’t think slugs should make a shotgun a better shotgun. It extends the oneshot range.

[unborn smelt]

that's a big reason for people saying shotguns are unreliable

[echo forum]

because the miss and have off centre crosshair from centre mass

[frozen swift]

eh i guess i just personally have had significantly worse experience using slugs than buck

[unborn smelt]

As you can see shotguns specifically have a 0.5 multiplier for legs

as opposed to 0.7 for nearly everything else

[frozen swift]

do we know how much damage a shotgun shell does

like if all pellets hit

[unborn smelt]

sadly we don't know for sure - but i think it's 200

[echo forum]

A lot of people really discount how strong spamming jump with shotgun is. Very hard to headshot that player as the either 1 hit kill your or flinch you and t hen follow up.

[frozen swift]

200 is romero at 10m tho so dropoff and spread could mean its significantly higher

[unborn smelt]

seeing as that's the dmg of the shotbolt which is just a shotgun shell point blank

[frozen swift]

oh right

good point

mm thats fair

i suppose my argument mostly lands on ''spread will make some pellets hit torso and make me kill'' vs ''no spread means i just hit an arm or leg and might not kill''

[bronze quail]

The only real advantage of buckshots over slugs is that with buckshots you can jump shot

[burnt mulch]

it’s very possible that the romero spread is tight enough that at 10m it doesn’t significantly spread. in which case I’m not sure if the pellets themselves had any damage dropoff.

[echo forum]

but it's a huge problem because that's the biggest reason better players make it a bad idea to push a shotgun with revolver. The already normally have the advantage but now you can no longer use a good peek, angle and crosshair placement to dome the player before he shoots you. You will most likely not kill and then he does.

[burnt mulch]

maybe you’d enjoy pennyshot. more damage more spread.

[unborn smelt]

shotguns are designed to be somewhat forgiving if you hit torso - seeing as shotguns have the 1.2 lower torso multiplier compared to the 1.0 of bullets - but they punish headshots and legshots exceedingly hard with very low head and leg multipliers

[frozen swift]

i do enjoy penny shot

[echo forum]

shotgun needs big accuracy debuff when jumping

[lunar kettle]

tbh shotgun is in a fine state rn

It is strong in CQC and thats good

[frozen swift]

i think shotguns are fine except the slate and knk

slate is literally just a better specter

[bronze quail]

right, but i still think that slugs are a straight upgrade of buckshots (in the hands of a decent player)

[echo forum]

Don't you see how it's unhealthy that the game in it's current state promotes shotgun compound camping and long ammo camping outside the compound?

[lunar kettle]

Specter with Slugs therefore is better then slate

[unborn smelt]

I don't like what they did for slugs - but that's just a personal pet peeve of mine

[echo forum]

In most situations just not that particular jump shot situation. Which is what stops crosshairplacement revolver headshots from being more common indoors vs shotgun like it is in CS or even CoD

[frozen swift]

slate has slugs

[lunar kettle]

For me it isn't unhealthy. For me it is fine how it is atm. There is just a few compounts that I don't like to push but there was never the reason that I could face a shotgun inside.

[lunar kettle]

Specter Slug is better then Slate Slug. Thats my point.

[frozen swift]

is it? in what way?

[unborn smelt]

people will always camp. That can barely be helped.
If you make one of the two too good at everything that's gonna have bonkers playrates

[lunar kettle]

More OHK Range

[unborn smelt]

to an extent that's what long ammo already does

[frozen swift]

eh i suppose thats nice

more rounds in slate tho and more spammable

[bronze quail]

After the nerf of medium barrel shotguns slate is not that good with slugs

[echo forum]

To each their own, I just find it boring. Less diversity in gameplay because how strong these weapons are and ease of use

[lunar kettle]

For the Specter it's 15m

For the Slate it's around 13m

[unborn smelt]

It can compete with shotguns, when you picked them off once and there are far more good CQC sidearms than range sidearms

[echo forum]

Well for one getting rid of dmg fall of would help and removing jump accuracy on shotguns. It will give other weapons more of a chance to fight back while still being in the disadvantage.

[bronze quail]

The problem i think is that you are way above the average. Most people never pushes a compound with a sparks and uppercut

[unborn smelt]

other weapons already have lots of ways to fight back

[echo forum]

how? How do you push long ammo without long ammo? How do you even return fire? Headshot them 3 x with compact/medium ammo lol

[unborn smelt]

there's a lot of secondaries that can go toe to toe with shotguns - for example the better fanning pistols, with good positioning the LeMat, and with pickoffs or hellfires long ammo

[bronze quail]

You can push long ammo with compact or medium ammo

[lunar kettle]

If it's within 90m the fight is fine. If it's further I push with cover. It is doable.

[unborn smelt]

ah you mean it that way - in that regard not many - but the other way around there's many

many long range loadouts can very much compete with shotguns

[echo forum]

With the RoF of most shotguns good luck lol after fanning crouch nerf I barely even die to it

[unborn smelt]

Most shotguns don't have a good ROF at all

[frozen swift]

slate is 58rpm

that's kinda nutty tbh

[unborn smelt]

by now half of them are good - the other half is bad

[echo forum]

the only bad one is the romero.

[frozen swift]

knk is 100rpm

[burnt mulch]

are you trying to argue for nerfing shotguns or long ammo?

[frozen swift]

rival is 90rpm

[burnt mulch]

I’m getting lost.

[echo forum]

both

[unborn smelt]

40 rpm of specter is pretty bad

[frozen swift]

specter and romero are the only ones with bad rof imo

[unborn smelt]

all pistols have equal or more

[unborn smelt]

ye mb

brainfart i missed the rival as it's good too

[frozen swift]

terminus without levering too but i mean who actually uses the terminus

[echo forum]

it's really good with slugs lol

[unborn smelt]

and it has access to levering

[frozen swift]

with slugs i understand

[unborn smelt]

not even then i do - specter or slate are straight better for slugs

[frozen swift]

i just find that anytime i use a terminus with buck it's like i'm firing confetti rather than pellets

[echo forum]

it's good in general. You can shoot like 5 buckshots levered before I can even shoot another uppcut shot

[lunar kettle]

As long as left-peak is a think you can face a shotgun with a good chance in CQC.

There is a reason long-rifle is meta for ages.

[echo forum]

more like trade with them at best

[unborn smelt]

unless the Uppercut has fanning - making It a real menace in CQC given the shooter has the skill

[burnt mulch]

shotguns are fine. They’re dominant within 15m due to their oneshot, The battle against someone with a shotgun is the battle to maintain range, not to outshoot them.

[bronze quail]

Terminus is good only with flechette

Op with flechette

[echo forum]

they're dominant within 50m with slugs lol

[lunar kettle]

Doesn't happen often to me. Like I said: Left-Peak is the reason long-rifle can dominate the fight in CQC - like any rifle

[unborn smelt]

all you need to internalize is to not spray that Uppercut fanning - you go for a quick tap in hipfire, and followup with a second shot aimed as soon as you got that hipfire marker

[burnt mulch]

at 20-50m range they’re matched in effectiveness by fast firing cqc secondaries.

[echo forum]

but everyone knows about this now and everyone is doing the same dance for left peek control. If you are pushing them in the lair they have the angle advantage

[lunar kettle]

Wouldn't do that anymore. It isn't precise enough anymore.

[echo forum]

and then get insta spammed by like half the shotguns haha

[unborn smelt]

It's not as good as it used to be - but it's till your best bet for CQC with an uppercut

[lunar kettle]

With that in mind you can push them/wallbang and they need to reposition.

[unborn smelt]

unless you can make them loose 25

then a body ohk is the best bet

[lunar kettle]

I would prefer holding my angle instead of using that fanning+aimshot.

[echo forum]

I mean I go for wallbangs and play angles but you're not going to hit most wallbangs and you're the one fishing for movement while they listen if they have compound

Like you can see big downtick in nitro use once slugs happened

[lunar kettle]

Never enter a building without knowledge about the position. Pushing doesn't mean to just run in and take the fight. There is more to it.

[unborn smelt]

sure - but having fanning doesn't stop you from doing that

it's just a fallback option

[lunar kettle]

We have so many option to engage them rn.

[unborn smelt]

That's imo the real power of fanning

[echo forum]

Yes I understand that but all it takes is for one jump peek to end you

[frozen swift]

can we talk about the real way to fight shotguns with long ammo

flash bombs

[unborn smelt]

you don't really sacrifice anything for having it

[echo forum]

never enter compound

[unborn smelt]

you just get very stronk CQC options on top

[lunar kettle]

I agree with that. But for me - personaly - fanning isn't an option anymore. It isn't reliable anymore.

[frozen swift]

flash bombs are a ''fuck you i know where you are, now you die'' instant win button in so many situations

[lunar kettle]

Even the conversion feels wrong

[echo forum]

or you hear the flash charge in and they weren't flashed lol.

[lunar kettle]

Flash bombs and choke bombs.

You create room with both.

[unborn smelt]

yeah that's true - it isn't reliable

[frozen swift]

imo flash bombs need a chargeup that's way longer than currently tho

rn theyre deadlier than a frag

there is no running

only white

[nova canyon]

Use compass

[unborn smelt]

But it's still a last effort you can pull out and it absolutely can go toe to toe with shotguns, not reliably but it will ruin some shotgunners, and pretty reliably all melee players days

[echo forum]

Currently this game has no place for anything that isn't long ammo or shotgun. Long ammo is strong in all ranges. Better at medium range than compact/medium ammo in realistic situations. Shotgun much better than them in close range. They suffer way too much from dmg fall off for already have low velocity generally.

[frozen swift]

i mean no running from the flash

not after you were flashed

[echo forum]

and get stuck on wall lol

[frozen swift]

if you hear someone use a flash there is no real response to it because its already in your face super fast and the range is high

[echo forum]

I either jiggle around like an idiot or throw my own flash at ground

its kinda cheesy

[bronze quail]

Are we talking about uppercut and fanning? I think that last time I used fanning with an upper was months ago lol

[lunar kettle]

I don't like fanning at all but uppercut fanning is one of the worst after the nerf

[echo forum]

I very rarely see people use fanning after nerfs

[burnt mulch]

lemat fanning is kinda sick

[bronze quail]

Me neither, im not good with spammy stuff, but i stopped using it with upper cause of the extraction bug

Or idk how to call it

[unborn smelt]

TBH i think many people just got used to a way too good fanning

[bronze quail]

Lemat, pax, chain, conversion and scotffield are still pretty good

[unborn smelt]

IMO a perk should have never had a smol slot pistol competetive and reliable with full sized shotguns

[burnt mulch]

chain
dies of cringe

[unborn smelt]

so imo it's good that it's not reliable anymore

[burnt mulch]

I want my lemat slugs back.

[unborn smelt]

but it still holds the option to absolutely ruin someones day - just not reliably anymore

[burnt mulch]

it was to the shotgun what the uppercut is to long ammo

and I’m sad it was nerfed

[echo forum]

I think it was much healthier for the game because you could go with long ammo pistol or medium to balance your loadout so you would have more versatility. Now with less versatility it just punishes people for playing outside their primary weapons dominant range. If you have a marksman rifle why ever even get close to the objective with a weak side arm?

[unborn smelt]

Nah the uppercut wasn't nearly as dangerous to a full long ammo rifle

[burnt mulch]

(I wasnt talking about fanning there, it was about lemat)

[unborn smelt]

aaah

when did they nerf the LeMat

[burnt mulch]

collateral damage from the slugs -ammo and limb modifier changes. honestly minor but i like to cry

[unborn smelt]

Well i'd argue no. because long range secondaries weren't all that good at countering a lack of range. the Uppercuts 96m are a joke compared to 250m full rifles.
where pre nerf fanning could reliably lazer a shotgun from more than 20m

[burnt mulch]

i do hate the -ammo. coulda let it keep that.

[unborn smelt]

okay they changed LeMAt slug - that's true

[burnt mulch]

-20-30% ammo across the board was really heavy handed

[hardy coral]

The pathetic range and sway of the springfield compact

[burnt mulch]

well the lemat buck is basically a melee weapon

[wind stream]

sprompact

[hardy coral]

Looking at the numbers it is a shame how weak medium ammo is

[unborn smelt]

TBH imo that just shows how slugs were kinda bad to beginn with

[burnt mulch]

I feel like it should have been more individually tailored to each shotgun.

[hardy coral]

Slugs shouldn't be the same price on each shotgun

400 bucks for like 8 romero slugs now?

[burnt mulch]

terminus could have dodged nerfs, for example.

[unborn smelt]

i wouldn't say they were OP - but their indroduction went to shot that you kinda needed 200$ special ammo to really somewhat compete with long ammo loadouts

and then again those loadouts also used long ammo

[echo forum]

Most of the fights were around 100-150m though. With spitzer you can reliably hit a moving target at 100-125m at 250m it's basically a guess. The uppercut lets you fight back against teams camping the forest 100m away from the compound and lets you fight them as they chase you to the extract.

[burnt mulch]

I mean the problem with the shotgun/long ammo interaction was never going to be fixed with custom ammo.

[echo forum]

You can see shotgun usage going up whith fanning and levering nerfs as well as slugs

[hardy coral]

Medium ammo needs the dropoff pushed forward 10 metres, having it drop off at 20 is mental.

[unborn smelt]

most fights happen far below 150m. and with a little skill you can hit with regular ass ammo at 200m

[hardy coral]

Fanning and levering nerfs were the stance ones right?

At least recently

[echo forum]

I think more than that for it's body shots because right now it's not good in close range or long range and at medium range it's still easily beat by long ammo because the velocity and fact that no one is just fighting in an open field lol.

[burnt mulch]

no more crouched accuracy, slightly more accurate overall, iirc.

[echo forum]

yeah and do no damage lol. Take 2 headshots and 4 bodyshots to kill someone if they are kind enough to not heal. There should be no dmg drop off when there are velocity differences.

[hardy coral]

Yeah, it fills no niche. The guns have to stand on their own merits, the vetterli has no merit other than it being ok in a prestige.

[unborn smelt]

Tbh vetterli is actually pretty good

[hardy coral]

I'd say it's just fine

[unborn smelt]

the cent was bad and the springie was kinda terrible

[echo forum]

I like it with deadeye but it is slow for a long range weapon muzzle velocity and it's ironsights are terrible

[hardy coral]

Springfield survives off dum dum, vetterli is okay with HV/FMJ. Cent survives off special ammo too.

[burnt mulch]

cent was bad because vett was better, vett is just ok because long bolt actions are better

[unborn smelt]

I've yet to meet a springie that's an actual danger

specifically because of any of the springies traits

[burnt mulch]

in an idealized meta, the only medium ammo gun that has a niche is vetterli silenced.

the springfield is just a single shot vetterli lol

[echo forum]

Game needs a gun rebalance around RoF, handling and positional accuracy in my opinion. Why does veterelli feel shoot faster than caldwell conversion lol

[burnt mulch]

erm.. why not?

[echo forum]

because it's better in all ranges because of that?

[unborn smelt]

I dunno i think most stuff about the actual gun is fine

[hardy coral]

You're never in a position where having a vetterli gives you the upper hand

It's just fine

[unborn smelt]

I do take issue with the uppercut sometimes - but the guns themselves are mostly fine apart from very few outlies up and downwards

[grizzled sedge]

the full rifle is better than the revolver? makes sense

[burnt mulch]

are you arguing that a pistol should shoot faster or are you saying that a conversion is better in all ranges?

or did you mean uppercut? I’m confused.

[hardy coral]

Medium is fine being the "jack of all trades" But long ammo bolts dealing max damage point blank and medium dropping off so quickly just makes the vetterli totally obsolete other than price.

[echo forum]

at all ranges???? Come on man you're telling me a bolt action rifle shoots faster than a single action revolver ?

[unborn smelt]

I think the reason the meta hasn't changed in ages, and long ammo keeps dominating is
a) the community hates almost everything with good ROF, and it's hard to balance ovjectively worse per bullet guns without ROF
b) the health bar system favoring huge alpha dmg weapons a lot

[burnt mulch]

map designed around open areas without counterplay to push snipers.

[grizzled sedge]

If you use it with 1 hand compared to two, yeah

[hardy coral]

The conversion pistol shoots quicker stock, with iron sharpshooter they're basically the same

[unborn smelt]

there is plenty counterplay to snipers, IMO.
Sure it may not be straight up push them, but there's usually enough visual cover for a wide stealthy flank, or you can take the bounty and fake running or actually run

[echo forum]

Lmao no. Not at all, You can cycle the bolt and aim faster than you can 1 hand a revolver? That's insane. All you have to do is move your thumb.

[bronze quail]

The thing is that medium ammo is made for being average

And the whole weapon system was built initially around economy

[unborn smelt]

sadly many don't end up performing average

the vetterli kind of does

[bronze quail]

And as everybody knows, there is no economy atm

[hardy coral]

The economy kind of exists

[unborn smelt]

But the springie is just bottom of the barrel single shot

[burnt mulch]

the problem is that you’re always forced to either take the fight at a bad range or run. And extracts tend to be surrounded by open space.

[unborn smelt]

and the pax is way closer to conversion than to uppercut

[bronze quail]

This is why there is o way to perfectly balance everything imo

[lunar kettle]

I agree but it should be way harder to gain hunt-dollar

[echo forum]

not against good players. Most sniper trios spread out around the compound . If you rush one the others can get a LoS within seconds to help them. It's hard to out run them while avoiding A.I and water. You have to constantly wiggle. Also with how the game handles foilage, edges and texture it's very hard to see these players at distance ,especially without a scope.

[hardy coral]

You don't see dolches, nitros and avtos all the time even though they're stronger than average. But you see long ammo bolts and uppercuts all the time because people always pick them up and they're just the right price that you can buy both with one good game

[unborn smelt]

Heck yeah - gimme back 4$ Romero, and 6$ conversion pistol

[bronze quail]

Vetterli is worse than mosin, and the only way people should use vetterli instead of mosin is for saving money. But, cause there is no economy and everybody has a lot of money, there are no valid reasons to buy a vetterli when you can buy a mosin

[unborn smelt]

Could make profit with just one clue

[burnt mulch]

$4 for a shotgun? the economy is in shambles.

[bronze quail]

Way more harder

[unborn smelt]

I dunno how long you played - but in the very beginning when the economy was more punishing, the base weapons were super cheap so you can always play smth

[echo forum]

They're also just better. Lol easier to 2 tap the body with slugs at 50m than 1 tap with nitro at 50m because of the aperature. It's easier to land long ammo headshots than use the nitro. Dolch gets hardcore beat by shotguns and avto is getting more use now with sparks pistol resever ammo.

[burnt mulch]

im joking

[alpine burrow]

@queen jungle don’t know if this helps but when I prestige I always get my first two free guys play a few rounds of qp get a few more free guys then roll Chary, then not use the free guys until they all have a bunch of points to spend (from charys rolls) I know what your saying, it is a bit of a shit reward (2 points) but can have a use

[hardy coral]

Nitro is still very good

[burnt mulch]

but we do have contraband and free hunters for that now and you could just naked collect clues

[hardy coral]

Dolch is the best pistol statswise, but the price makes it pretty garbage tbh. Avto is OP but extremely unfun to use.

[echo forum]

it is very good I agree but very high skill ceiling weapon

[bronze quail]

And, in my opinion, the whole weapon system was but around the economy. There are super cheap weapons, mid field weapons and top tier weapons. But now everybody is full of money so everybody can buy everything they want ruining the whole concept at the base of the game

[lunar kettle]

Avto is my most fun weapon. 😄

And I would say Dolch is still the best sidearm. Price doesn't matter at that point.

Nothing beats a Dolch P or Dolch

[burnt mulch]

late stage capitalism 😔

[bronze quail]

Kinda lol

[burnt mulch]

eh price still kinda matters, at some point if something gets expensive enough you’re gonna stop buying it.

[bronze quail]

we are discussing about gun balanced but the game was built around no gun balances. I mean vetterli was supposed to be an average weapons, same as Springfield for example

Springfield was just a single shot weapon for people prestiging

To use before unlocking sparks

[burnt mulch]

but yeah guns should still be roughly balanced outside of price.

[lunar kettle]

I can't agree with that

[echo forum]

I think it's not strong enough now or you would see it used more. It doesn't provide enough strenght+ value for the price when it's strongest range is within reach of slugs. We see plenty of mosin and lebels with spitzer even though it's expensive.

[lunar kettle]

At some point price doesn't matter anymore

[lunar kettle]

If people would go for tournaments they would always take that Dolch P as a sidearm. It is to good to not use it.

[unborn smelt]

it very much depends where you play

[bronze quail]

Definitely no. It's been 2 years since i checked how much a weapon costs

[unborn smelt]

for the game as a whole price very much depends

If your playing at the very top of the ELO it doesn't really anymore

[lunar kettle]

Absolutly true.

[unborn smelt]

because usually the very top of the ELO just consists of people that are often to the mwax competetive - so out of Meta gear is extremely uncommon no matter the cost

however for a health overall game you can't balance the economy around the top 5% or even top 1% of players - as the lower 50% most likely will not have fun

[echo forum]

Wasn't it nerfed a while back? It used to be used a lot but it's barely used in 5-6 star elo now. I prefer uppercut over it tbh with how I play.

[burnt mulch]

the only reason price doesnt feel like it matters is because of siphoning off accumulated wealth. if income didnt actually match the expenditure you wouldn’t be able to afford top tier guns all the time.

[echo forum]

mosin and lebel are super common lol

[unborn smelt]

yeah it was nerfed a lot - but in tournaments people don't care

[bronze quail]

This

[burnt mulch]

if we’re talking about an idealized meta for balance purposes, then yes price doesnt matter.

[hardy coral]

Dolch used to deal 110 damage with quick reload and there wasn't the fast fire sway. Dolch P was even better cus no recoil and sway.

[unborn smelt]

even if it's just 5% better at three times the cost - people will pay for that advantage in a tournament, or in top ELO where they play every game like a tournament

[bronze quail]

But with vulture, cash machines, pouches, chairy ecc making money is way easyer than before

[lunar kettle]

It was nerfed. It isn't as easy to use as it was.
Still: To damn strong in good hands. There is still no recoild for the Dolch P, same good headshot ability and rpm is amazing. That gun is good enough to 3 tap 3 people with one mag.

It is the best sidearm for any long rifle.

[hardy coral]

If bornheim match had some more ammo (And QM was more available) you'd see it more paired with other guns

[echo forum]

I never see it anymore. In most scenarios isn't it similar to bornheim in 3 tap to body? Just more ammo and a little more velocity.

[lunar kettle]

!calculator

[marsh garden]

Damage calculator: https://nixatek.com/DamageCalculator.html

[lunar kettle]

Still a double tap to chest up to ~39m

And if I remember correctly Arm + Chest around ~24m

The reason people don't use it anymore is because you need traits and the normal dolch has increased recoil. That needs practice.

[unborn smelt]

It's still plenty strong - but it's expensive af to the point most people in regular low to high MMR don't buy it for being just a bit better than the uppercut.
And the version that doesn't have atrocious recoil, needs QM

in terms of seeing the Dolch in games - playing highest ELO or regular mid to high ELO makes a massive diffrence

[lunar kettle]

Thats the point. It isn't just "a bit better". It is the same for dualis (Conversion FMJ). It is still amazing and better then most of the standard sidearms but after a nerf the mindset changes to: "Now it's bad!!!!11"

But it isn't. Not at all.

[unborn smelt]

I got some very high ELO mates, and when i play with them it's very very sweaty and you see a decent amount of Dolchs
If i play by myself or lower ELO mates i propably see it every 10-15 games at max

[unborn smelt]

Sry i can't agree there in the slightest.

[echo forum]

I'm all over the place I'm mid 5 star to low 6 star and don't remember the last time I saw it. The only thing I see semi often is the avtomat.

[unborn smelt]

for the price attached it's kinda bad

if the price wouldn't be sure - but for the general game as a whole the price plays a major role

and it's just not as versatile or good as the uppercut is for it's price

We even know, from the Devs that in the actual top ELO the Dolch isn't significantly more lethal than the rest of the guns.

[lunar kettle]

I guess we just have different perspectives but that's fine.

[echo forum]

Yeah I feel like uppercut is king if you can aim

sparks pistol is interesting now too with shotgun

[lunar kettle]

If I should 'balance' the price I would increase the cost of the uppercut by 1.75x and increase the price of both dolch variants by 1.25x

[unborn smelt]

We propably do - however mine do conincide with the actual stats the devs ganve out on the last big Dolch nerf

[echo forum]

lol that would just indirectly buff long ammo rifles

[unborn smelt]

TBH - i'd just go and rework the Dolch.

I agree that it felt bad and needed to be dealt with

i can even agree that it propably still feels just as bad in the very top of the ELO

But i disagree that nerfing it to the point people in top ELO are fine with it is the right thing to do

because then for 95% of the rest of the population it's just waaay to expensive to garbage for the price

[digital nacelle]

with dolch’s massive recoil I prefer the officer tbh

even if they were the same price

can’t say the same for dolch p though

[hardy coral]

Officer is better than stock dolch

[lunar kettle]

It isn't easy to find a good solutions for that.

[echo forum]

Man it's insane at how much drop off the medium range weapons have using this dmg calculator. At 80m a Lebel 2 taps to chest while officer 4 taps to chest or 2 taps with 1 chest shot and 1 headshot. 360m/s vs 630m/s. That should be the upper range of medium range but still is better for long ammo.

[unborn smelt]

what i could see for a rework, would be making it the spitzer of pistols - reduce the price to be in the uppercut range, and make it a 3 shot to kill, but retain dmg and insame pen for a good range

[unborn smelt]

officer is really meant for short range -but you're not wrong tho

Springie drops to 4 chest shots at only 100m

[echo forum]

I mean the carbine deadeye

[unborn smelt]

that's a big oof for a single shot "marksman Rifle"

[echo forum]

yup lol medium/compact needs a big buff in some way

[unborn smelt]

I mean for a winnie or vetterli that's fine as they offer repeating firepower

just for a single shot rifle that's absolutely garbage

[echo forum]

I think that still has a problem though because the fire rate of the vettereli isn't much faster than the mosin. Also with the way most people fight it's kinda useless because people are peeking on angles so you're usually not going to get to shoot at them multiple times in the open before they can ready their next long ammo shot. You also lose out on velocity, damage at all ranges and penetration. If you take FMJ your bullet basically floats and you might as well not try to shoot anyone moving past 60m lol

if medium ammo/compact had better default pen maybe the fire rate would make more sense or if you cover lever while ADS

[maiden pelican]

Springfield should get 139/140 damage

Lets it 2 tap the leg inside of 20 meters, but still crippled by medium

Hell, that it reloads slower than the martini is already bad enough

[digital nacelle]

?

[maiden pelican]

It does, let me give the video

[unborn smelt]

It shoots a good bit faster than a mosin - but then again Hunt has an economy a gun that much cheaper shouldn't be on equal footing. It should have a smol reason to be used over another even over higher tier ones, but overall perform worse

in the vetterli vs mosin case that's ammo economy and smol but noticable Rof increase

[zenith oriole]

Personally I don't think anything is wrong with the vetterli but everyone has their opinions and play styles

[maiden pelican]

Searched it up, someone else was doing so. Apparently that video got removed, I recommend you test how long it takes to fire 21 shots with each gun. The martini is faster though. I will try and test when I get back home after work

[digital nacelle]

I am intrigued

[maiden pelican]

Cause if you search "martini reloads faster" on this discord you can find people talking about the videi

[lunar kettle]

With a Pax HV the Vet HV could be a strong oppenent for the long-rifles.

[maiden pelican]

Pax deadeye pls

And HV in the same update

[lunar kettle]

There is no need for a scoped Pax
Maybe a Precision-Variant.

[maiden pelican]

I'd rather die to HV than to FMJ

Pax small slot

Extended barrel

[unborn smelt]

I think the vetterli is already in a really good spot tbh

[maiden pelican]

115 damage and 360 velocity

[unborn smelt]

it's cheap - can use good special ammo to further either range or ease of use

it's got enough ammo to sustain itself

[maiden pelican]

Vetterli is to me the best balanced gun in the game

[crystal plume]

I would not want to play a version of Hunt where vetterli was the baseline personally

[maiden pelican]

How so? Too lethal, short range?

And to me the vetterli is the baseline of rifles

[crystal plume]

Long ammo is the most consistent experience in the game

[maiden pelican]

Of course

It's the easiest to use

[crystal plume]

Medium ammo's damage falloff is weird compared to compact ammo, and the penning is something that could be improved for both medium and compact

So I would not want to use a inconsistent experience as the baseline

[maiden pelican]

You have to hit your opponent less and it is usually easier to do so, with long ammos higher pen and generally higher velocity

[maiden pelican]

True but using long ammo as the baseline just shows how pathetically bad other ammos are

[crystal plume]

Which is why I'd improve them

[maiden pelican]

Range mostly?

[crystal plume]

Make medium damage falloff start at 30m instead of 20m like compact ammo, improve pen slightly for both medium and compact ammo since it's the main thing why I always suffer with those ammo types unless I'm using FMJ

[maiden pelican]

30 rather than 20 is something I have wanted for more than 2 years now, hell more than 3 probably

I fucking hate FMJ

Not because it's too good

But because it's basically necessary for some of the guns

[maiden pelican]

The way I would improve them is by decreasing the headshot multiplier on compact and medium ammo, but keeping their headshot ranges the same.

So take compact from a 6x multiplier down to a 5x, and medium from 5x down to 4.5x

[crystal plume]

So basically increasing the damage they do at range at the same time?

[maiden pelican]

In addition to increasing dropoff start of medium I think it would be in a really good place

[maiden pelican]

Yeah, pretty much giving them better 2 tap ranges and consistency

[crystal plume]

Eh, I wouldn't touch compact ammo's 2 tap range when pretty much all of them are high rof weapons

Medium maybe, but increasing damage falloff by 10m on it would already help a bit with that

[maiden pelican]

Their range wouldn't go up much

Like 5 meters tops

But I would like hitting a guy at 80 meters with a winfield to at least take a 25 sometimes

Because with long ammo you'll be chopping at least a 50 off most times

[bronze quail]

Winfield shouldn't be a threat over 80m imo

Except for headshots

[maiden pelican]

Id rather it be less of a threat to the head than it currently is when it's pathetic weaksauce to the body

[bronze quail]

Under 50m is good

And thats the range where you should be using a Winfield

[maiden pelican]

You can literally unload the entire mag of a winfield into a person at headshot range and not kill them

[bronze quail]

If you want to play from 80/100m you should take another gun or close up the distance

[hardy coral]

Problem is it's only really good with perks.

Stock you aren't really getting much of a firerate advantage and up close it's easily outclassed

[unborn smelt]

to be honest - if medium and compact ammo ever want a place in high tier we need high RoF top tier guns

[maiden pelican]

It's barely decent under 20 meters right now

[bronze quail]

Winfield without traits is useful imo, not that much but is not that bad

[maiden pelican]

What the Centennial should be

[bronze quail]

The only gun that is 100% useless without traits is terminus imo

[unborn smelt]

I know that high Rof is frowned upon - but you can't balance very well without it

[unborn smelt]

IMO it shouldn't but that's a diffrent story

[maiden pelican]

Give it more spare and better leveing and make it the medium ammo mosin equivalent

[unborn smelt]

i liked the place of the cent before - it had clear goals and shortcomings, and played diffrent from the rest

it just wasn't worth the money

specifically not worth more then a vetterli

[maiden pelican]

I don't like how much the rof went up when it was mostly the other stats that needed improvement

[unborn smelt]

i don't think they needed improovements at all

unless you count a price decrease as improovement

[maiden pelican]

Ehh, it was trash in my opinion, I liked it but hated how it performed

[maiden pelican]

Sure, but price is such a non factor

I went from dropping below 300 $ earlier and back up to 4k yesterday

[unborn smelt]

It is a factor - and i'm tired of pretending it's not

[maiden pelican]

Price changes shouldn't be a standalone change

[unborn smelt]

IMO they should

[maiden pelican]

Imagine if no dolch nerfs ever happened and they just kept increasing the price

[unborn smelt]

as long as the gun oterwise has a nice place

And i personally prefer smth unique - over the same boring stuff again and again

[maiden pelican]

Price changes should be more than just 1 gun at a time

[maiden pelican]

What do you mean by that?

[unborn smelt]

I don't think the Dolch needed nerfs - it needed a rework

the Dolch still has the same issues - just more condensed to top ELO

[maiden pelican]

I mean from 10/20 spare

[unborn smelt]

well rn the centennial lost it's unique place IMO - It wen't from a clearly defined dedicated marksman rifle, to just Winnie with bit more Oomph but bit less Rof

[maiden pelican]

Barely less

[unborn smelt]

It lost the low RoF makin it suceptible to being pushed

[maiden pelican]

It's front sight is too fugly not to use the sniper scope

[maiden pelican]

It should never have been slower than the vetterli

Because then people wouldn't have been clamoring for a buff.

The Centennial came out such an absolutely dogshit weapon

[unborn smelt]

that's why it IMO went from a somewhat unique gun that didn't conform to the typical medium ammo is 125+ dmg. lower Rof than compact but higher than long and okay ammo. to well another bit more dmg bit less rof - done - new gun

[unborn smelt]

nah that was fine

[maiden pelican]

Why not just use HV vetterli

[unborn smelt]

it just shouldn't have cost more than it, while doing less dmg and shooting slower

[maiden pelican]

Fires faster, better hipfire

[unborn smelt]

To me it had the perfect spot for a very low tier marksman rifle - just a way too high price for that

[maiden pelican]

It was added poor in too many areas, and I don't likr the direction they've taken it

I swear it was originally gonna be a long ammo gun

[unborn smelt]

because then you can't take FMJ, or have no sniper scope

[maiden pelican]

Taking FMJ shouldn't be the upside it is

[unborn smelt]

or if the price would have been right it would have been cheaper and not tied to special ammo for the speed

[maiden pelican]

I wish they'd put some wild changes up on the test server like rebalancing a bunch of stuff all at the same time

Without a want to push it live

[unborn smelt]

I'd just wish they'd stick smth unique out there for once

[maiden pelican]

What change removed most of its uniqueness?

[unborn smelt]

i get bored with just another mosin clone, another officer clone, making the cent just another Winnie clone, and the slate another specter + clone

[maiden pelican]

We don't need more low tier guns.

[unborn smelt]

tbh the massive RoF increase to me

made it go from a marksman rifle that has issues in CQC - to Winnie+ with marksman capabilities on top

[maiden pelican]

Same, but I say a smaller rof increase was warranted.

[unborn smelt]

nah i don't think so

[maiden pelican]

It should've had other areas increased then

[unborn smelt]

I think it was good to be below vetterli - should just have been represented in the cost

[maiden pelican]

Because its pathetically useless with levering

Also sniper scopesmith unlocks so late

[unborn smelt]

yeah that's smth i could see change

not necessarily making levering on it good

because well - i liked it having issues in CQC. That made it play unique to me

[maiden pelican]

I don't want its levering on par with the normal winfield

But I'd like it to be better than it's base hipfire

Hell even after the increase I think it's base hipfire is still better than levering

Maybe even moreso than before

But I want FMJ not to increase range of stuff anymore, it went from useless to overused

Combined with range increases on medium and compact

[unborn smelt]

yeah that i can get behind - but i just see so many people just wanting their favorite guns to be super good, and the one they hate to be super bad and to me trying to appeal to that just muddies the water, and a game that started with somewhat unique well defined guns, just ends up with the same guns in heaps

[maiden pelican]

Not to the same extent

[unborn smelt]

to me the addition of terminus was already iffy - but the slate just toppled the nice defined roles of the other shotties.
Lebel, Mosin and Berthier all play the same for 95% of the time and offer nothing truely unique.
with the Cent buffs they imo took it from unique to another Winnie family clone with 3 very similar guns with only very minor changes

Gimme whacky stuff, gimme new stuff, break with the ammo model restrictions, or make more special ammo guns circumventing those restrictions
(As i think normalizing so many values through the ammo types is what leads to all the stuff getting more stale)

for example - gimme a special ammo rifle that works like the pre buff cent - low Rof, low reserves, low dmg, but give it great velocity and add some amazing pen, and boom you have a cheap unique marksman rifle that stands out. Sure it won't be meta or particularly competetive - but fun and unique to play.

[maiden pelican]

Alofs comes in wearing a 1 man band

[unborn smelt]

Or gimme a weird Nock volley type gun thats converted to shoot cartriges, which makes it a really clunky burst fire weapon that shoots, like 2-3 barrels in succession (not fast, the RoF of a burst mabye 50-65Rpm around Winnie RPM) and has 6-9 barrels total

heck gimme a 2 round burst handcrossbow

I loved this thing in Remnant from the shes

gimme a compact ammo gun with very high velocity

gimme a type of shotgun slugs that can't or barely can OHK - but inherits the amazing pen of the Nitro and maybe the high creature dmg

[iron current]

Lol was making an idea but mentioned hammers being half "pulled" unaware that the C word used in context with flintlocks and revolvers is blocked by the bot

[vital drum]

It isn't anymore, feel free to repost

[iron current]

Thank you, guess I'll remember next time

[frosty garnet]

@rancid oracle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Tramp Tesla..```

[frosty garnet]

@subtle stream, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

It could also list these stats in the book```

[cedar socket]

@median stratus If you do the same loadout on a legendary hunter, it cost a bit more

[median stratus]

probably, so I say the loadout can stay optional. maybe the regular hunter also costs a little more as you know the traits beforehand, but those artifical expensive loadouts just never make sense

[karmic ivy]

@feral timber That would be superfluous. They clearly keep an eye on suggestions, feedback, and their metrics.

[unborn smelt]

@feral timber They did that in the past - however they moved away from it. You should still be able to see the archived channel for it #suggestions-overview

[karmic ivy]

oh

[unborn smelt]

on top a lot of the last additions have been community requests (the slate, the model 92, the cent, the Bow)

Just in case you didn't know

[craggy pike]

when you say "they moved away from it" do they currently not look at those suggestions anymore? what is that channel for then?

[unborn smelt]

it's archived - they don't use the channel anymore but obviously still look at suggestions

[craggy pike]

ah i see

[unborn smelt]

there was a message that said they don't want ideas not listed there to feel like they are ignored, nor were the ideas they highlighted guaranteed ti be added and importantly likely not added exactly the way as suggested

[craggy pike]

ah gotcha gotcha

[unborn smelt]

This looks suspiciously like SBMM was turned off, because none of the teams have the small scale symbol next to the team identifier indicating SBMM was on

@lime tree ^^

[frosty garnet]

@viscid zenith, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Why not make the berthier mle 1892 a lower level requirement than the lebel, which overall seems like a better / higher tier weapon ? Also there is a big gap between the spark and the lebel where you get only saber and slate.
Berthier at lvl 40ish would be great imo.```

[cedar socket]

Yeah SSBM is turned off on that screenshot

[unborn smelt]

we cannot say ffor sure - but it looks like it

[cedar socket]

isn't there a bug where SSBM doesn't activate ?

[lime tree]

You are most likely correct. I was not hosting the group and I always host with SBMM, but my friend probably didnt have it turned on when I thought he did. It's happened a few times recently and I just thought crytek was testing to see how good we were 😭

[balmy sparrow]

Console peasant's suggestions doesn't even have reaction to grade it

💀 console moment

[unborn smelt]

That's usually if the bot's ded or they blocked the bot

[balmy sparrow]

But hilarious irony did happen with how console is usually left behind by developers

Or not irony

I have no idea what type of humour this is

[cedar socket]

@long river Yeah, definitely a trade

[frosty garnet]

@feral kite, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Favorites for legendary hunters or a way to sort them in an order you want.```

[queen jungle]

@celest solstice How was that player cheating? Looks like you got simply shot on short range through a thin wooden wall with shotbolt.

Also, what makes you think player numbers are down? Daily peaks are consistently above 25k for the past weeks and we recently reached a new all-time peak.
https://steamdb.info/app/594650/graphs/

[ocean orbit]

In regards to player numbers being down I can honestly say my friends and I play in NA west and in 7 games will get the same player 3-4 times almost on a daily basis. It definitely feels like the community is much much smaller than it used to be.

[celest solstice]

All time peak of 38 day 2 of the event and not even close since then and an average of 15k a day. That's not good numbers. A little more detail on what happened was these people were running around the compound shooting through walls repeatedly with no line of sight, through hay stacks and other things were they couldn't possibly know we were there or should be able to hit us

Cheating has definitely been a major issue since the start of this event

[queen jungle]

But the numbers show the opposite. Player counts are consistently higher than before the event.

[celest solstice]

@queen jungle No, they're not

@ocean orbit I can confirm that we get tons of games with just 2-4 players in them in US west all the time

[crystal plume]

[queen jungle]

They are. Look at the numbers and graphs.

[crystal plume]

And players dropping after the event's first few days is to be expected, biggest hype wave is when people try it out when it starts

[celest solstice]

China players increase. I don't count this is a player count. Prime time US there is about 15k

[fading zephyr]

I just landed a 200 meter HS kill with the Mosin SNiper I am so giddy

[ocean orbit]

I haven’t seen any numbers and I’m not going to disagree in regards to that! But what I can say is that the game feels significantly less populated than before. players split between 6 ( or is it 5?) servers, split again between 3 game modes, split again between two different Elo systems and split again into elo brackets. The pool of players I play against as a 6 * is so small that I use in game coms to ask regulars about their work and days 😂

[ocean orbit]

Particularly in high elo it gets bad lol

[queen jungle]

Your screenshot doesn't show anything of what you described. Make sure to report suspicious players and Crytek's customer support will investigate whether they were indeed cheating or not (as this is often very hard to tell for normal players like us).

[celest solstice]

We play high 5* and we'll have a full game and then 3 games with 4 players at prime time

[ocean orbit]

In US west you said?

[queen jungle]

Hunt's daily peaks are traditionally during evening time EU (around 8-10pm CEST / 6-8pm UTC). Primetime in Asia is usually when concurrent player numbers are at their lowest.

[celest solstice]

@ocean orbit Yea

And any players we do get are from China, south america or australia/new zealand

So rare to get actual players from US west or US at all

The player that I said was cheating was from the Middle east

In US west servers

[normal horizon]

3 game modes?

and 2 different elo systems?

can you elaborate what you mean by that 😄

[ocean orbit]

Yea for sure!

[celest solstice]

Need to get rid of all capabilities to choose your own server and just let the game decide on what the best server for you is

[ocean orbit]

Quick play, 2 mans and 3 mans are all incapable of being matched together. So the pool of players that are split between the different servers and also split between those three game modes. And further split by skill based match making on or off. And further split by the actual elo bracket they are in. I’ve been playing since beta and I’ll tell you a year ago and further back we would almost never come up on a lobby with a player we’ve met before. Now I’m LITERALLY not joking, I have ask about players jobs and kids because we see them so often lol

@normal horizon

[normal horizon]

I was just confused what you meant with the game modes and different elo systems, thank you for clearing that up

[ocean orbit]

All that stuff is fine for a game with a player base like League of legends or something similar but when you split players into that many pools with a smaller active player base it ends up putting people into such small pools that we get to know each other. NOW LET ME SAY THAT I LOVE HUNT WITH ALL MY HEART AND ITS MY FAVOURITE GAME I’m not bashing you guys! Just pointing out flaws in something I love, ya know?

@normal horizon

Hoping things get even better in months to come

[cedar socket]

@celest solstice It's a shotbolt, it doesn't look like a cheat 🤔

[celest solstice]

Read the chat. It's been discussed

[cedar socket]

Yeah, i come late, not point going on your high horse here

[tribal wyvern]

Always wondered why they even allow us to pick.
The system can figure out itself where the grp has best average ping, pick that one, done.

Doesn't have to mean we need to block anyone from queueing across region, just do not allow us to pick.

[queen jungle]

@lone aurora Your ISP is responsible for your connection to the servers. And Telekom has a history of causing connectivity issues in Hunt.

[cedar socket]

@alpine burrow rpm in the menu don't take reload in account, it's basically just how much time you have to compensate recoil

[alpine burrow]

@cedar socket I get that but 30 is still pushing it but is what it is👍 still think Alamo should be quicker than standard? Not as quick as pumps though

[lucid patrol]

are they going to give back all the hunters and gear lost today becuase of the shi tty BR servers in LATAM?

[lone aurora]

So either uninstall or change ISP? (which I btw changed to get a more stable connection to play hunt)
kewl

[queen jungle]

Well I'd recommend talking to your ISP first to make them aware of your issue.

[lone aurora]

Telekom is aware...There is plenty of entries in their forums. Same as here and everyone blames each other

[karmic ivy]

@lone aurora You should talk to your ISP directly, being direct gets problems solved more often than waiting and hoping.

I speak from experience.

[queen jungle]

Can you guys fix the discord? the invite links in the LFG channels no longer show if its a link to Trios or Duos...
As someone who only does duos, this is extremely annoying.

[cedar socket]

#general-announcements

[queen jungle]

Damn big rip, Rip duos

[dim niche]

Are servers running like shit still?

[craggy pike]

steam updates their stuff every Tuesday, could be that if you're on PC

[dim heron]

!steam

[marsh garden]

If you see a "Press Enter to Start" screen, it means that you do not have connection to Steam.

Most common reason is Steam's Weekly Maintenance, that happens every Tuesday. It usually lasts a few minutes, but can be much longer. Sadly, this is something that is out of our hands, but we hope you get to play very soon.

[cedar coyote]

!stean

[dim heron]

!barn

[vital drum]

@dry solstice Once you join a post, it will show up in the list like a regular channel under the forum, so it should be exactly the same to use after

[dry solstice]

So you just added more steps to make it as it was before?

[burnt mulch]

speaking of lfg, did the voice-channel-making bot finally break for good?

[dry solstice]

True, Ive just noticed that, was such a great addition.

[vital drum]

No, now you can select which specific regions you want to show up. The reasoning behind the change is explained in #general-announcements

[vital drum]

The bot is fine, but Discord limited channel creation to 500 a day, which we vastly exceeded.

So it's unusable on our server, we had to get rid of it

[burnt mulch]

sadge

[dry solstice]

Ye, I disagree, if you wanted to make it less overwhelming for new users, this was a step backwards. Everyone knows how text channels work but not many people are using this forum thing + its more difficult to actually get to the "looking for group" stage.

[vital drum]

Yeah, bot developer had big plans for it and spent lots of time developing a web interface. All of it will likely be thrown out

[burnt mulch]

what if we had a bunch of voice channels created, but you joined one “creator” channel that renamed an already created but empty channel and moved you to it?

that way it doesnt make a new channel, just reuses old ones

[dry solstice]

The bot situation is quite sad. I hoped it could be fixed.

[vital drum]

Yeah it's a workaround that we've suggested to the developer, but so far it's unclear whether he wants to continue development

[dry solstice]

Now it looks just wack 😄

[burnt mulch]

hm. welp it is what it is.

[vital drum]

Maybe if other solutions pop up over time, we'll use them. We want to go back to the automated channel system for sure.

Especially since it allowed to use slash commands for controlling your VC

[dry solstice]

And how about the text channel part? Will you also make it.. not worse then before again?

[burnt mulch]

brb boots up vscode

[pine quail]

change the discord back

i dont like it im lost

[vital drum]

We'll see over time, it's too early to decide. For now we'll just see how it goes

[dry solstice]

I feel like Arricado is not paid enough for this amount of bs 😄

[dim nexus]

PUT IT BACK

BAD CHANGE BAD CHANGE

[burnt mulch]

🤨

[vital drum]

I'm a volunteer, so I am not paid by Crytek 🙂

[pine quail]

ok so everyone leave him alone its not his fault

good lad

tried your best

[dry solstice]

Well, since people are already asking for reversing it... I think its maybe about people "getting used to it" then people actually liking it more

[vital drum]

I am responsible for this change though

[pine quail]

CHANGE IT BACK

it is cleaner though just different

[dry solstice]

Bruh, ask them for money.

@delicate abyss please, pay the poor man, look what he has to put up with.

[vital drum]

Please don't tag community managers if they're not active in chat 😄

[dry solstice]

Bro, I bought the new 7 99 dlc, so I want you to have some of it

its like the restaurant owner taking servers tips

[radiant river]

People don't like change

[dry solstice]

Or make Patreon so we can donate you, so you can buy some food since crytek didnt sell enough microtransaction bonds to pay you.

[vital drum]

Don't worry, they make it worth my time in other ways.

[queen jungle]

I'd be okay with it if it was good change. The LFG change and set servers is much worse.

[dry solstice]

Are they paying you in stock options?

[frosty garnet]

@silk slate, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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[silk slate]

fix the south america servers, unplayable

[dry solstice]

you might need better internet tho

[crisp grove]

same, but in NA

3 times today mid-game

and then unable to re-join : )

[queen jungle]

@alpine burrow You aren’t supposed to use the alamo as a repeater. It’s only marginally faster

Alamo is arguably bad for its price though

[lime harbor]

SA servers -.-

[ruby sedge]

Hey guys, whats up with the new trash LFG sub section... was better before.

[knotty ore]

There are so many fucking hackers at 5-6 star. I can't enjoy this event.

[ruby sedge]

are they trying to drive the community off this particular discord server?

[frosty garnet]

@nimble wind, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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[lime harbor]

._.

[cursive lava]

Loads of them! Every fucking game. Asia servers are worse than NA servers too. But yeah, they come out of the woodwork during events. Apparently the Hunt team does act, but they just keep coming. EAC is utter trash

[hollow mulch]

CHANGE THE LOOKING FOR GROUP BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS. THIS IS DUMB.

[frosty garnet]

@hollow mulch, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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CHANGE THE LOOKING FOR GROUP BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS. THIS IS DUMB.```

[burnt mulch]

I'm pretty sure the reason people hate the new LFG is because they don't understand they're supposed to follow the thread.

it's literally this easy

now I don't have to look at all the other chat channels.

[candid igloo]

Plz change back the LFG channel plz its is very annoying to see the other channels when i dont play on them plz change it back

[burnt mulch]

bro what did I just say

[candid igloo]

sry did not see that just saw the change and i dont like it was typing when u wrote urs

[cursive lava]

Here comes potato again lol

[gusty marsh]

I think the game might actually be at the point scopes need to be taken out of the game, or there needs to be some kind of mechanic added where sitting in bushes 100m out isn't the best way to win every game and rack up KD

[frosty garnet]

@hollow mulch, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Change the way groups are found back to how it was. There shouldn't be this many unnecessary steps.```

[vital drum]

@elder agate Once you follow a region post, it will be displayed in your channel list. So you don’t have to open the forum again and you will only see the channel of your region.

@distant pilot I’ve added a pinned post in the forum about the follow function

[elder agate]

I did that, it brought out on the side bar all the regions despite me not following them

and i can't mute them or get rid of them without muting the whole category

[vital drum]

You can unfollow any post at any time, that is strange

[elder agate]

let me try again

[uneven mirage]

CHANGE BACK THE FUCKING LFG

[distant pilot]

Thanks :) Most people just see the new change as is, a spammed server command for every "CHANGE THE THING BACK" might be required though lol.

[elder agate]

i see what happened. As soon as you click on any of the region posts, it automatically makes you start following them whether you click the button or not. I had to go through and unfollow all the other regions bc I clicked on them to mute them

[vital drum]

But it doesn’t automatically follow. You either need to click follow or send a message in a post.

[elder agate]

I didn't do either of those, and it made me follow all the other channels.

i right-clicked on the names, went to mute post, muted them indefinitely, and it made me follow the post automatically.

[vital drum]

Ah, that makes sense then

[vital drum]

Yeah it will take some time for users to get used to it, especially since forums aren’t available to all servers yet, so many don’t have experience with it.

[marsh pine]

West Coast and East coast server connection failures every match. Seattle based, and Chicago based players.

2 nights in a row now

[marsh pine]

Again. Servers are crashing every game. Get about halfway through and boom - disconnections. Trios, duos, East, West, different regions of play. Internet is fine, no other issues

its like every 15 minutes into the game almost on the dot

we get to keep our trait points, dont lose our hunters etc

[verbal spear]

LOWER THE FUCKING TRADING BATCH

[alpine burrow]

@queen jungle but it’s not marginally faster it’s slower🤪

[queen jungle]

It isn’t though. It only says so incorrectly on stats

[alpine burrow]

A standard Romero is quicker than the Alamo which makes the Alamo pointless, I don’t think it should be any quicker than a pump but should be quicker than a standard Romero

[merry walrus]

As someone who lives in NA-West. I shouldn't be disconnecting from an NA server, because some dude in Spain wants to play on NA servers. Please fix this issue. So I don't have to get messages on steam from some dude in Spain talkn shit about how I was camping, but was instead trying to reconnect for the entire match. But this shows that people are still ping abusing and ruining the experience for players that belong on the correct server.

[queen jungle]

how to create invite link. fuk sake stop changing dicord

[lunar kettle]

#general-announcements message

That might help.

[burnt mulch]

.. it's not.

[wind stream]

the RPM stat in the store assumes infinte ammo and no need for a reload

the alamo is faster between shots

but the alamo reload is super slow in return

[queen jungle]

Not how servers work fam

[alpine burrow]

@burnt mulch it is😂

[queen jungle]

It objectively is not. Are you trolling or something?

[alpine burrow]

Look at the rate of fire. Standard Romero is faster even if this is a misprint in practical use the standard Romero is faster

No I’m not trolling telling my point from experience. People get so but hurt around here when you don’t agree with them

I find I can manually reload a standard Romero in a quicker time than it takes the Alamo to do the clunky break action. All I ever said is the Alamo should be quicker, not as quick as pumps or leaver but quicker than standard Romero

[queen jungle]

It isn’r a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. The alamo break is objectively faster than a romero reload

[alpine burrow]

But it’s not

[vital drum]

@vapid fulcrum Unfortunately, the invite change is due to us having to revert to static channels. This is done because of a new Discord limitation on channel creation, which means we can't use a bot to automate them anymore.

The amount of active invites to all the channels on the server is also limited, so we can not allow users to create invites anymore.

[queen jungle]

But it is

[cursive lava]

I love when potato and proton are in here. You know shits about to go down. Now. Where’s my popcorn? 🍿

[queen jungle]

The store page stat doesn’t tell the whole story

[alpine burrow]

Never said it did, I also said from practical use.

[cedar socket]

Alamo is faster than Romero, your brain might be tricking you

take a speedrunner clock, open OBS or something, and test how fast you can shoot the 5 bullet out of the alamo and 5 bullet out of a Romero in training, you'll see it

[alpine burrow]

We will agree to disagree

[burnt mulch]

#game-questions message
#game-questions message

[alpine burrow]

The fuck is that?

[burnt mulch]

links to videos showing the time between shots of a romero and an alamo.

[wind stream]

now that is proof

[cedar socket]

i mean, i told you the practical way to test it yourself and see the fact, there's no disagreeing with that, you just don't want to be proven wrong

[wind stream]

rare to see actual proof to back up claims

[alpine burrow]

No bat bash I’m at work and the pings are getting annoying so agree to disagree was just to end it. Jesus

[wind stream]

but its difficult to disagree with facts, Potato linked to the proof

[alpine burrow]

I’ve not disagreed with proof ffs. Just asked wtf is that link was cos I’m at fucking work and busy

[burnt mulch]

so you’re just refusing to look at it?

thats fine too

take your time

I said take your time.

though it’s interesting you have the time to check discord for replies but not the time to watch a 2.4 second and 4 second video respectively.

[cedar socket]

I'll make you a summary: there's a video of normal romero that last 4 seconds with back to back shots, and one of the alamo that last 2.4s with back to back shots

[burnt mulch]

I think you mean a summary

[cedar socket]

corrected, english not first language, yadayada

[burnt mulch]

a learning experience.

[alpine burrow]

I drive plant on a building site quickly glance at a message is easy watching videos not so

[burnt mulch]

the time you spent typing that took longer than watching the videos

ok im done taunting

[wind stream]

Now worries, I recommend to watch it later

the RPM store stat is confusing

[burnt mulch]

honestly, all the store stats are suspect

how tf a martini henry reload faster than a springfield

literally like 2.X second reload

i want a refund

[cedar socket]

Yeah, RPM stat for One shot weapon is strangely calculated

But for the reload, i'm pretty sure it's the animation time ?

[burnt mulch]

idk. like i said, martini henry has 3s reload in stats when ingame you can fire two shots in 2.x seconds.

https://youtu.be/ZML-JqBn_YQ

big weird

[keen mortar]

Honestly, I'll never understand the issue with night/fog maps. Can someone enlighten me? Is it an accessibility thing, because it's "more scary" or just because it's harder?

[wind stream]

night looks very different based on the monitor you use. With some its almopst impossible to see anything

I had no issue on my old monitor, but on my new one I can barely see stuff

thats why I prefer day times

[keen mortar]

Is that not a gamma issue?

[wind stream]

its not just a gamma issue

[keen mortar]

Or is it the way black is rendered on your monitor?

[wind stream]

it has to do with how the montor shows black or other dark colors

[keen mortar]

Yeah, fair enough.

[wind stream]

I had 3 monitors in my time of playing hunt and 3 very different night experiences

[keen mortar]

Yeah, understandable. I wish everyone ran the same set ups with the same monitors and everything to make stuff fair. But that's not the reality of it.

Night in this game is very dark, I'll admit. But it adds to the atmosphere of the game a lot. Not sure what the long term solution is to please everyone because give people the choice, and night maps will be very unpopulated.

[wind stream]

I love th atmosphere and had no issue with my old monitor

but nothing feels worse than getting shot at and being unable to see the enemy when they apparently can see you clearly

[keen mortar]

Yeah, well that happens a lot regardless with left side peaking. 🤮

What's the issue with fog then? Surely that's got to do with view distance.

[wind stream]

To my knowledge its people with scopes that dodge fog

a sniper scope on a fog map feels really bad

[keen mortar]

Yeah, thought it might be.

[wind stream]

I personally dont have an issue with fog really

[keen mortar]

I mean, each to their own, but removing it completely isn't a solution. Adds an extra element to the game if you ask me.

[wind stream]

I like the idea of a preference system

lets you pick time of days you prefer to play, but would still match you on unprefered maps if there is no other match around

[keen mortar]

That sounds like a nice compromise. I wasn't around when there used to be an actual contract system. But choosing say a choice of 3 contracts, that tells you the map, time of day, boss(es) and weather sounds like a good idea on paper.

But that could lead to player drop off I guess.

But I'd rather load into a game that's full and not got people extracting in the first minute.

Even something as simple as like you say -

Daytime preferred?

Yes
No

I don't like Tarkov, but thinking about how they handle it could be an option as well.

[queen jungle]

Agree.

[frosty garnet]

@swift sandal, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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[wind stream]

@swift sandal Please leave feedback for actual feedback. You can keep an eye on our giveaway channels. You might get a chance to win a key there 😉

[worthy knoll]

In fog, when you bring a scope above Deadeye you can basically instantly leave. All your plans on sniping are down the drain and entering a match just to leave because your gun is at a severe disadvantage while also being rather expensive (looking at you Mosin Sniper Spitzer) means more downtime and less game time.

Night is similar, but there you can at least try to use them. But here too, visibility is limited and people dislike that.

On the opposite side, night/fog with a shotgun is great since visibility is limited

[keen mortar]

I feel like that's a balance to stop long ammo being the god in every scenario though. Fog allows for a lot more tactical moving.

Perhaps rather than fog being map wide, it could be more like mist across the swampy parts of the map. So you can say cross the middle of the bayou without being sniped, but other parts of the map are more clear.

Not sure if this is limited by the engine though.

[worthy knoll]

As I said, for shotguns fog is great.
But why should I put myself at a severe disadvantage like that? If I really commit to Sniping, Mosin Spitzer and all then I WILL leave every fog and night map. Always. These guns cost a lot of money I will not waste them by being useless.

If you could, at the start of the round, remove the scope. Permanently for that match it would maybe be different but that would mean a lot of work for Crytek. Concerning skins etc

[keen mortar]

I wouldn't call it a disadvantage when you have essentially 3/4 of the map visible.

[feral timber]

This is kind of one of the many (annoying) RNG elements of the game

This is like trying to play a cheaper game so you take in the knuckle knife and you spawn at Reeker and with 18 concertina armoureds in your way, it's just one of those kind of "deal with it" situations, we have all been burned by the annoyance of the game's RNG, I always take Sticky Grenade to help with bosses, but then sometimes it'll be a 1-boss Assassin map... making my sticky grenade an absolute waste of money, it just kind of happens, it's annoying we have no control over these elements, but I don't think the game is popular enough (at least on PC) to be able to pick and choose these elements

[keen mortar]

@floral surge Been thinking this for a while. Be cool if instead of placing fire on the ground, it placed a puddle that disappeared after a certain time. But in that time acted as a noise trap that you can place.

[floral surge]

That'd be a good little added bonus. Biggest thing for me is solos being able to extinguish bodies to loot them, because who really brings chokes as a solo?

[keen mortar]

Yeah. I think they'd need to be fairly rare, so taking a choke for guaranteed ability to douse a fire is still a thing. But having them dotted around compounds would be great.

[orchid olive]

titles in the game would be tight

for certain achievements

actually surprised that isnt a thing

[keen mortar]

I know right? Adds an element of flex too.

[orchid olive]

ya if there were really hard ones i would grind for them

[frosty garnet]

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[frosty garnet]

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Ban people for team killing```

[unborn smelt]

@lone aurora I used to have the same issue with Telekom germany, where i had way to high ping on EU and playing RU was a better option and playing US East was equqlly as good as playing EU, and had propably the same experience with their support saying they won't help me.
However if the routing issue happens on telekoms side (which i in my case confirmed as good as i could, via a traceroute), crytek cannot just fix that, then it is your ISP's responsibility to fix that, as it happens within their infrastructure. Which does suck if you don't have other good ISP options available, which i know all too well.

On the bright side the ping issues resolved themselves for me eventually - but it did in fact take ages to do so

[lone aurora]

I love how the ball is getting tossed from one side to the other. Telekom always says it is Cryteks responsibility and here you hear the opposite.

[unborn smelt]

I understand your situation - been in the same one for 3-4 Months just earlier this year

tracerout clearly showed a node in telekoms network failing after which the ping went from 25ms all the way to 110ms for me

and it already entered cryteks infrastructure at 110ms ping

For me it resolved itself when i took an IRL work related break from Hunt for 3 months, and just recently the issues stopped

[lone aurora]

That is depressing af. 😄

[unborn smelt]

Sadly yes - and i dearly hope it'll be faster for you

Just wanted to share with you that i was in the same boat with the same ISP and that it in fact did resolve itself, after a sadly long wait

[lone aurora]

well lets hope for the best then :/

[worthy knoll]

you have maybe 100m probably less range to see people. Maybe its my Screen but as far as I am concerned, Sniping in Fog is stupid and I personally will not do it.

[worthy knoll]

I think the cost of a knuckle knife or a sticky is far from a full sniper loadout but i get what you mean. And i do know people who say "grow some" but if they want to see me die.. as long as i can extract on those maps I will do so. No ones harmed by this except some sweatlord who is sad that he gets to kill one person less.

[queen jungle]

Good evening, I wanted to know why the e_Lods = 0 command was blocked from the configuration file which allowed you to load high quality game assets, without the classic transition of the lods that is present in the game, this helped me a lot with the view having a degenerative pathology called glaucoma, as there are not even accessibility settings that can help me, that command like the one for antialiasing helped me a lot, now since update 1.8.1 you have ruined the gaming experience just because I have a health problem, this is unfortunately not my fault and I do not understand why this was done on your part. since this command was present since the launch of the game and did not create problems for anyone, I would like some explanations on this and a possible resolution before having to proceed by legal means, thanks. it is since the launch of the game that I ask for accessibility support through the official website, you have not done anything to date, on the contrary, with the update 1.8.1 you have blocked the modification of the antialiasing and lods through the configuration file that as previously written was available from the launch of the game in early access causing me a lot of issues. @scarlet tartan

[obsidian garden]

Man its shotbolt.. Shotbolt mean you can penetrate even trees. Don't get me wrong. I don't know how long you've been playing. But in this game, if you have something that can penetrate walls and you're playing with headphones and you hear someone behind a wooden wall, just kill them through the wall. Its reason why is here penetration. 😄 And on your screen there you can see place between planks.. So he was able to see you 🙂

[vital drum]

@blissful canopy The change was needed due to channel creation limitation Discord has implemented. We are not able to support automatic channel creation anymore because due to constant growth of players here we exceed those limits significantly.

[odd cosmos]

Sparks Aperture would be very op imo

[little carbon]

@amber stirrup i am not absolutely but I believe that while it is unbelievable annoying, it's not against the rules if your teammates afk at spawn

[amber stirrup]

It should be. The problem is that it's common to spawn next to another team and then it's a 2v3 fight because somebody decided to que for a game and then walk away from it.

[karmic ivy]

Glad to hear we are growing!

[chrome oyster]

@winged agate FWIW, I don't support your suggestion without mine; I made the suggestion because I like the idea of a close quarters/tunnels oriented map, but there's no way I want that integrated if I just land there randomly

[winged agate]

what do you mean

[chrome oyster]

I don't want to drop into a map that's 70% tunnels and with a sniper scope because the game chose the "Mining Town" map for me.

You basically need a way to say, "no no, I'm switching to a deadeye loadout for this map" or "I'm opting into only these maps", but I actually think the game is better when the map is picked for you (it prevents "the favorite map" from being the only one you can queue for off peak hours). So, I want the option to "get rid of that sniper rifle" before the match starts.

[keen mortar]

Maps are an RNG element. Your loadout choice is the risk you take when joining a match. Just like if the weather/time of day isn't on your side. It's like arguing that if the match started and its the perfect weather/open ground for sniping but you only brought an iron sight, that you'd want the option to "add that Sniper rifle".

Every match would just become long ammo vs long ammo. Or shotgun vs shotgun and nothing in between.

[grizzled sedge]

tarue

[chrome oyster]

That really limits the map design. Even in perfect daylight there are reasons to choose something other than a sniper (on a normal map), and different reasons to choose a sniper in denser fog (the zoom can help you make out details).

When you get into "solid walls" and a map that's effectively close quarters only, that "minor inconvenience" of the wrong RNG is a huge problem. Aiming a sniper in close quarters is... a joke, you're basically stuck with hip fire.

I'd rather have map diversity over whatever benefit the game gets from "day/night/weather RNG." If I can't have equipment choice though, strongly against maps that don't "work roughly the same."

[tribal wyvern]

@azure dune
That sounds like a gitgud issue, if you can't even see his entire body & weapon, then his basket face will hardly make any difference

[azure dune]

It was a situation where only the head was visible, just wondering are all your enemies always fully exposed?

[keen mortar]

Yeah, there's times when the only time you recognise an enemy because you see their face. :') That's why certain skins are hard to spot.

[tribal wyvern]

No, but I don't think i ever struggled with seeing a guy & wondering which direction hes looking.

But do you see alot of hunters with a biege basket on the back of their heads?

[azure dune]

people have straw hats, etc.

[tribal wyvern]

a HAT is hardly at the back of their head

and only 1 has it

[azure dune]

point is no face, which humans look for

and some confusion, given the basket head

[keen mortar]

If the basket had eye holes, that would be a different story, and maybe that's a fix.

[tribal wyvern]

So, a whole basket, can't figure out what it is, but 2 tiny eye holes, yep now its a face i can recognise....

I feel like im being pranked

[azure dune]

bruh

IF the basket had eyes holes

IF

[tribal wyvern]

Doesn't change what i said.

[azure dune]

humans look for facial features

it would also break up the basket abit, so it's not just one solid thing

[keen mortar]

It's the whole point of military face camo, to distort the face.

I mean, how does the dude see anyway?

[tribal wyvern]

You really asking this question, in this game....
How does the revenant live?
How do we keep going back as the same legendary hunter even tho he died

[azure dune]

Freddie, you are grasping at obv jests

when we are mentioning some actual gameplay issues

[tribal wyvern]

I dont see said issues

Ppl said cain was invisible, yet no1 can spot awhiteshirt in grass

feels like an execuse cuz u got killed

[azure dune]

yet the devs increased his visibility twice

[tribal wyvern]

Cuz ppl kept ranting aobut it everysingle day

[azure dune]

really... that was your great mic drop?

[keen mortar]

Look, if Cain had a ghillie head, everyone would call it out.

[tribal wyvern]

Like over 20+ feedback posts of crying *everyday

[unborn smelt]

Interestingly noone calls out the actual ghilie hunter...

[azure dune]

everyone can access the ghilie hunter tho

and they are rare no amount of money will insure you have them

[tribal wyvern]

Cuz they havnt died by him yet in sucha matter that they have a reason to complain yet

same with viper

[azure dune]

you can buy the viper over and over once you got him

can't do that with the ghilie's

[tribal wyvern]

If hes so OP you can get him aswell.
But ofc he isn't. It's just something to complain rather than getting gud.

[azure dune]

it's not a major problem with viper but i do think it is a problem

if i recall correctly even the ghilie has a face, his camo on the front is different than the sides.

of the head

[unborn smelt]

He doesnt really have a face afaik

[tribal wyvern]

Same with the basket guy.... he has a blue hoodie

[azure dune]

the ghilie iirc, has their eyes exposed

and only a bandana to cover the face

[keen mortar]

There's a specific incident where its hard to see Viper, and that's between gaps in certain fences. Near invisible.

[tribal wyvern]

It's the eyes man, all they need is 2 eyes.
Then hes balanced apparently.

[unborn smelt]

Cain had eyes

[azure dune]

my whole thing is there is no identifiable facial features

cain was the color of the background before

with the skullbag breaking his humanoid outline

[unborn smelt]

Why should therebe a need for those

The one version that lacks facial features literally is a big light brown circle

[azure dune]

there are situations where you only see the head, between gaps, just over a roof, and seeing just a basket I feel makes it hard to identify in these niche cases

[unborn smelt]

Well yes thats fair

If we wanted every hunter to always be equally visible we had 1 basic whiteshirt for everyone

However its intended that higher tier hunters are less visible - hence progressively darker themes, and less hats for more hoods.

Legendaries for all intents and purposes are T3 so its fine if they are darker and somewhat camouflaged

Many people even avoid playing those that arent - like the revenant, phantom or night seer/acolyte

[balmy sparrow]

I like how you didn't name redshirt

[unborn smelt]

Because i dont think he quite makes that category

He quite literally has a target painted on him but he's still straw color and dark red for clothing and not straight up 70% white

[tribal wyvern]

@slow lintel
So you think it makes more sense for bullets to vanish into thin air, than for each persons bullet to count?

The fact there is slight delay on you dying after he died, all depends on ping & the fact what you do you ofcourse see yourself first firing, as its client side.

[slow lintel]

yes it makes sense, because dead people can't shoot and the bullets should not be there to begin with.
On long range, if 2 sniper shoot simultainously its perfectly fine. Killing both players, cause the player had a high ping is bs. And it used to be that way, when hunt had less players.

[tribal wyvern]

They're not dead tho, thats the point.

[slow lintel]

let the server decide. not client side. simple netcode.

[tribal wyvern]

They are letting the server decide, thats why hes not dead lol

What i meant with client side, is that you see what u do first.

[slow lintel]

currently not. it just gets the data from both players who both "won" and lets this pass by.
The server could evaluate instead the situation who actualy won

[tribal wyvern]

Even if irl u shot at the exact same second

[wind stream]

there is server side validation right now

client side registration with server side validation

[slow lintel]

by having a ping-limit to get the trade-kill-feature.

[tribal wyvern]

The point we're trying to make, that when the shot is made, no one is dead yet.
The info is delivered to you slightly delayed because of ping

[unborn smelt]

It was not like that when hunt had less players -

according to the devs - what happened in the past was, 2 players shoot, while both are alive serverside. Player one's bullets kills player two, now player two's bullet that still is mid air (projectile created while shooter was alive, but hasn't hit the target yet for example because low velocity) was deleted from mid air, resulting in no trade

this robbed Player two of a legitimate kill, because the projectile was created serverside before dying - so it should persist after their death and still be lethal should it hit post mortem

What it does not do according to the devs, is Player one shoots player two and gets confirmed the kill, player two now, after being confirmed dead serverside cerates a projectile, possibly so late because of high ping and kills player one, resulting in a trade.

The server still holds authority over that, by checking if the shooter should be alive at the time of the shot, and invalidating if they shouldn't be

[winged agate]

idk i just include a situation like that into bad rng for me , when i take sniper i take saber , i just want more uniqueness in the maps instead of swamp and large open areas , if i take a sniper and i get night time or fog map , ill either leave or play differently it dont see it as a big waste of time or ill just kill ai and extract

[tribal wyvern]

While trades can be annoying, especially if you're the last 2 ppl alive.
I prefer this over him living simply because my bullets didn't travel as fast.

[celest solstice]

@tribal wyvern Trading was a crutch to high ping players in servers out of their region. Bullets don't disappear per say. It's more like the high ping player was alive longer than they should of been due to their ping and the server hadn't registered they had died yet, so it was more the appearance that they're bullet disappeared. I would much rather have the bullet disappear than me to shoot someone, get an X and then watch them move around for a second after they have been and get to shoot me as they're falling over dead due to the delay because of ping and server validation.

[burnt mulch]

… what

[tribal wyvern]

Thats not true at all.

[celest solstice]

It's been proven that's how it works

[burnt mulch]

ping-based trading is symmetrical

[tribal wyvern]

Not it has not, by no one.

[celest solstice]

Look it up

[burnt mulch]

if they can trade with you, you can trade with them.

[tribal wyvern]

Im not looking up your fals hypothesis.

[celest solstice]

Incorrect

[tribal wyvern]

If you got "proof" bring it.

[celest solstice]

I only trade with high ping players

And it's always them falling over dead and getting a shot off while dead or falling over

[tribal wyvern]

Bring your proof video then.

[burnt mulch]

thats how it always works. of course your client sees you shoot before them, their data needs to reach your computer

on their screen they see that they shot first

[celest solstice]

Exactly. So the server validates I killed them but their data has not reached the server yet and when it does, it comes back to me saying oh yea, they killed you too

It should not work like this

[tribal wyvern]

Even if they didn't lagg, you'd die anyway.

[celest solstice]

The low ping should win the fight

No, I wouldn't of

[queen jungle]

So how do you know another player's ping? And please don't say "Steam profile" 🤔

[burnt mulch]

if you were the one peeking, and you traded, you shot second.

[celest solstice]

Wire shark

[burnt mulch]

you’re wiresharking to their pc?

[celest solstice]

Again, there is data on this

[burnt mulch]

where

[slow lintel]

Just found the important part from Hunts webpage:
https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/hit-registration-update
"""When we looked into our data about when and why shots are being invalidated from the server, we found that many invalidations happen because the server perceived the player whose shots were invalidated as already dead"""

So with this, it means the server already knows this player is actually dead. Yet, still decides to communicate the trade-kill

[celest solstice]

Many players have given their reports in reddit

[tribal wyvern]

Stop preaching the same sentences & link it.

[burnt mulch]

“many players”

[burnt mulch]

yes, up to a point. however, the trade system benefits and hurts both players simultaneously. no player gets an advantage

[celest solstice]

Virus just linked some info

[queen jungle]

It perceived the player as dead, but they fired their shot before they died. If such a shot happens to hit another player, it can still kill.

[slow lintel]

Thats wrong. A solo with a shotgun dies permantly for the game. The duo revives.

[burnt mulch]

I’m speaking in the general sense.

[tribal wyvern]

Ye he linked where they proved what we've said the entire time. Next.

[celest solstice]

Lol well if you're just gonna ignore the info then why are you asking for links and proof

[tribal wyvern]

No one is ignoring it, Finall just corrected him.

[burnt mulch]

how about you look it up then.

[celest solstice]

Trades should be so rare that you are ok with them happening. They happen in this game as often as you fire your gun

[slow lintel]

exactly

[tribal wyvern]

Depends, if we both fired a killing shot, then we both die.

[burnt mulch]

that would be great except we dont have faster than light instant communication

[celest solstice]

No. You're crazy if you think that the chances of that happening are a common thing

[tribal wyvern]

Depends on loadout & if its cqc.

[celest solstice]

There are so many variables happening that it should literally never happen

[slow lintel]

I play many games, and only Hunt has this issue that big.

[celest solstice]

Unless melee at the same time or something

[tribal wyvern]

2 shotgun players have a high risk of trading, because both weapons can oneshot fairly easy

[burnt mulch]

and one of them is ping.

[tribal wyvern]

Only hunt works this way.

Name a game that has similar gunplay & easy to kill as Hunt.

[burnt mulch]

because either 1. their game mechanics are built around reducing peeker’s advantage and other such issues, and/or 2. they give a straight disadvantage to the higher ping player

[slow lintel]

Counter strike

[tribal wyvern]

How the hell is CS similar to hunt

[burnt mulch]

haha no.

[tribal wyvern]

you don't even die to 1 headshot

wtf

[slow lintel]

????

[celest solstice]

Ping, projectile speed, distance, lag compensation, movement, etc...

[tribal wyvern]

Only AWP or deagle i believe actually 1 taps on HS

[slow lintel]

much more....