#thread-archived

1 messages · Page 15 of 1

old niche
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No change related to that was implemented, also, all changes were not released yet so.. if you are running the latest App Store version, it’s all good.

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Have you imported your Apple Network credentials to HA? (Devices > Thread > Configure > Import credentials), also, have you set Apple network as preferred?

broken anchor
civic basin
old niche
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Are you the owner of the network? (Are you using the Apple ID that is owner of the home in Apple Home which has setup HomePods and Apple TVs)
Otherwise the credentials won’t be in your Apple Keychain, hence not imported.
By the way this “preferred thread network not found” is the preferred network in Apple ecosystem, not HA

civic basin
old niche
civic basin
civic basin
# old niche In the current app version you can’t, in the beta (TestFlight) inside “debugging...

Update: Indeed, nothing is shown in the thread credential debug menu. Unfortunately, I don't have an iphone with the correct apple ID. I guess I will keep the current setup (second thread network for devices that don't support multi-fabric) for now + wait until two-way credential sharing is implemented.

Would it make sense for me to submit a PR that adds a note to https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/#prepare-android-or-iphone stating that the apple id used must "own" the apple home?

sick swan
halcyon rover
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hi all! I have an issue with the Aqara Door and Window Sensor P2. I tried adding it to the matter integration and it just won't work. I keep getting an error that there is no thread router. I have skyconnect and am sunning the multiprotocol integration.

broken anchor
halcyon rover
tired juniper
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@crude willow do eve do a thread venetian blinds?

crude willow
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but there is an eve chip on the Eve motionblinds range

cobalt raven
tired juniper
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i updated my nanoleaf shapres to support thread and clicked enable thread but it doesnt show up anywhere where will it appear?

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each time i restart the app just shows upgrade to thread i click to upgrade and it seems to never actually join or create a thread network i just want the shapes to join my exisiting thread network

rich river
tired juniper
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i factory reset the device and said yes id like it to join the existing thread network but no idea if it will work still doesnt show as connected to a thread network

tired juniper
rich river
tired juniper
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i dont want it to just create its own network

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if i go to the thread network in settings in nanoleaf app it shows my google one as existing just no idea whats its doing no feedback as to if it trying to join or what

rich river
tired juniper
rich river
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Don’t think so, as all the management and provisioning I believe is done over WiFi

tired juniper
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just wish it would show if its trying to join or failing

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how long should it take?

vapid shell
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Neither have trel so they need to be within thread range to make a cohesive mesh. Rather than 2 seperate partitions. (There can be full thread devices in between them).

rich river
vapid shell
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The HA thread integration can show you what mesh which BR is part of

tired juniper
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Would be really handy if this will join the existing network as I also got 2 more nest hub gen 2 also coming to get a decent thread mesh going with 4 border routers

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Just clicked to join the thread network again claims it will take a few moments been 30mins so far

vapid shell
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That’s what mine did (on iOS)

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(Connected in a few moments that is)

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Even though it was on a different WiFi to my main TBRs

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Which wrecked everything

tired juniper
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Don't think this is working then

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If it was joining it would show under my existing network in home assistant wouldn't it?

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Just keeps showing this

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Guessing nanoleaf is broken software side

So much for thread and matter being cross platform lol

flat basin
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Greetings, fellow masochists. I just decided to dive into Thread and boy am I having fun.

I have two Onvis Motion Sensors that are Homekit Thread. I have adopted both via Bluetooth on the HA Host and provisioned them with the Thread credentials.

However, the Thread Status is stuck at "Child". They refuse to promote themselves to Router and thus my network is very limited range. They're both showing as a Minimal End Device in Thread Capabilities. Attributes claims they are capable of being routers.

rich river
twin vine
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It might be trying to get the creds to a network and failing

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Even tho for thread 1.3 supports joining existing networks w/ no need to get creds yourself (forgot the name of it)

tired juniper
tired juniper
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I reinstalled app

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Also moved a thread plug right next to lights dunno which bit fixed it

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Now shows as part of my existing network

twin vine
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Nice!

vapid shell
crude willow
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@flat basin I would say the same as Jc2k, without knowing the devices I would say it is a battery device. Meaning it will be an end device just as you see. If you want routers look at mains powered devices like Eve energy or lightbulbs.

flat basin
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That makes sense. So I misunderstood what the "possible states" list is. I thought it meant what the device was capable of, not just a list of every possible state for any device.

keen mango
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I'm moving my SkyConnect from Silicon Labs Multiprotocol firmware to OTBR Add-on. Is enabling NAT64 helpful for Matter or is it not needed?

twin vine
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Yes

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Well, I like to have it

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Let’s the devices talk to the internet, which some people may be pressed about

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But iirc all your other BR’s do that anyways

keen mango
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That's cool but how is it useful for Matter devices? What do they need to talk to the internet for?

twin vine
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I’m sure there is some reason

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But like I couldn’t tell ya

normal arch
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So these external border routers are utilising nat64 on your endpoint devices and you can't do anything about it?

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It's probably through a secure tunnel, but still..

keen mango
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In OTBR it's optional.

vapid shell
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I’d turn it off unless I knew something needed it

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In future itll be used to enable things like eg a weather station with a screen that can poke online weather data as well@as local data

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Without needing your phone or whatever to help it

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But im paranoid, i dont want my door contacts sending telemetry to the cloud every time I open the door

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There’s no need for it for matter or HomeKit over thread, so off off off.

vapid shell
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Means they (every device on your mesh) be able to phone home even if you don’t have ipv6 internet

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If you do have ipv6 internet they will just get a public ipv6 address directly and can phone home without NAT

marble perch
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fwiw, i'd expect that most of the matter devices that actually want an internet connection will end up being wifi rather than thread - since thread is really slow. But yeah, something like a thermostat pulling a weather forecast, or any device sending analytics data would be possible.

toxic vector
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250kbit/s absolute maximum and realistically a fraction of that

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But yeah effectively all nat64 allows is a thread device to speak ipv4 off mesh. They can already access the internet via ipv6

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And my own public internet connection is already ipv6 capable so hey ho, thread devices can do internets

rich river
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This brings up a long running question I’ve had. I see people saying that if you have native IPv6 on your network then a thread network will have routed internet access, but never understood how?
Unless my network is different, my thread network is using an fd::/8 block which is in the ULA block and therefore not globally routed. I’d assumed that this was standard for any TBR, but maybe not? (I’m using HomePod Minis)

vapid shell
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It uses dhcp6 to get a whole subnet from your router

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Then allocates those public addresses to devices on the mesh

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If it can’t get a block from your router, you get a ULA

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It’ll fallback to NAT64 in that case

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We have seen HomePod minis dishing out global addresses, fwiw.

rich river
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Ok. I’d have assumed that DHCPv6-PD isn’t “normal” to have turned on for an internal network, but maybe I’m just a little more strict with my settings! 🙂

vapid shell
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There’s a bit more info in the thread 1.3 features white paper

rich river
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I assume any NAT64 would use the public IPv6 address of the TBR it goes through?

vapid shell
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IPv4 address of your router

rich river
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TBR or ISP router?

vapid shell
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It’ll be NATted at the TBR and then again and the ISP router

rich river
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Ok so 6->4 on the TBR

vapid shell
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And then internal to external at the isp router

rich river
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Might go dig out that thread white paper and give it a proper read

vapid shell
rich river
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Ok, so I run UniFi and apparently they don’t support downstream DHCPv6-PD, hence my thread network using ULA addressing even though I have GLA addressing on my LAN.
Question answered 😀

marble perch
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note that not all thread border routers support dhcp6 pd either; the espressif stack doesn't include a dhcp6 client at all

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that reminds me, i should file an issue on their repo asking for that feature :)

little sigil
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im also having major issues even getting my light to connect to it tho :/ Ive got matter set up but matter says there isn't a thread border router despite there being one and despite both things being set up with hass

marble perch
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they get an ipv6 address for the router itself via slaac, and advertise the ula prefix with "RA"s

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a tricky thing is that the esp-idf sdk has a default limit on number of mdns services set to 10, which isn't enough for more than just a few devices.

little sigil
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ah ok

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i don't even have one set up yet lol

marble perch
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well, if you don't have a thread border router set up, that would explain why matter complains that there isn't a thread border router

little sigil
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i meant child devices, Ive got one thread border router set up and linked to hass

marble perch
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where do you see that error message?

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when you're running into issues with thread border routers, the first thing to check is always for issues with networking - you need to make sure that mdns resolution is working, and that all your devices see the router announcements from the border router.

little sigil
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home assistant > integrations > add matter device, once scanned and connected it says "your device requires a thread border router"

marble perch
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ok, so on a phone via the home assistant companion app. what kind of phone - android or ios?

little sigil
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android

marble perch
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alright, so there's some steps you might have to do to get the home assistant app to sync the thread network credentials to google play, so google play (which is what actually does the thread network provisioninging) can set up the thread network.

little sigil
marble perch
little sigil
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ty

marble perch
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(in step 2, if using an external OTBR, it'll have an "OT" logo instead of a homeassistant logo)

twin vine
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Have you synced thread credentials in the app?

blazing grove
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I'm trying to add a thread/matter device to my HA for the first time but I can't seem to get it working. When I scan the QR code on the device, it shows me

Your device requires a Thread border router. Connect your border router, then try setting up your device.
I have a Home Assistant SkyConnect connected and it seems to be set up. When I go to devices and click on Thread and then on configure, it is showing me 1 border router. Do I need to configure anything else? Am I doing something wrong?

twin vine
blazing grove
twin vine
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In the Companion app, go to Settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then select Sync Thread credentials.

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try that, then give it another go

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also, is that BR the preferred network?

blazing grove
blazing grove
twin vine
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Go to Settings > Devices & Services.
If you do not see a Thread integration, add it.
Then, select Configure and check if you see any Thread networks on the overview page.

blazing grove
twin vine
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cool, sync the thread creds and try again

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just to confirm, its not in any other ecosystem? you trying to connect it direct to HA first

blazing grove
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Well so far its at Checking network connectivity, thats a couple steps further than before 🙂

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Is it normal that it takes forever? 😄

twin vine
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uhh, not really but thats more progress

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how close are you to the device?

little sigil
twin vine
blazing grove
twin vine
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nah, how close between you and the device you are trying to connect to

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and how far is the distance between you HA instance (with the skyconnect) and the device?

blazing grove
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Something went wrong, make sure you're connected to your network and try again

blazing grove
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And I'm right next to the device with the phone I'm using for the setup

twin vine
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i mean, for commisioning, especally when you dont really have a network its best to try and keep it as close as you can (when you set it up)

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what device is it?

blazing grove
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Blinds

twin vine
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eve blinds

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?

blazing grove
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Yoolax

twin vine
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and its matter over thread?

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oh yeah it is

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hmmm

blazing grove
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I mean at least it's finding the device alwith matter and complained about thread haha

twin vine
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you got no other border routers?

blazing grove
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Nope

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I guess I will try to bring them closer together and see what happens

twin vine
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if you can

blazing grove
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My HA is running on a tiny Lenovo that's mounted on a board with a French cleat. I knew that eventually I might have to bring it closer to a random device that I can't move so I build it as portable as possible 😂

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Unplug power + ethernet and move it where I need it

twin vine
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yeah... also make sure your skyconnect is using that usb extender cord it came with

blazing grove
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Yes, I made sure that everything is always connected with usb 2.0

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Could it maybe be a 2G/5G issue with the network?

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Because it's still stuck at connecting and now they are only 5ft away from each other

twin vine
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you got ipv6 enabled on your network and HA machine?

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your HA machine should have a ULA/Local link address

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starts with FE80::

blazing grove
twin vine
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hahahaha good work 🤣

blazing grove
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No one told me that it would need IPv6 😛

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Yay, everything works exactly the way I want it 🙂

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Thank you very much for your help!

twin vine
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all good, glad its working now!

crude willow
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Any link to where you bought it @blazing grove ?

blazing grove
crude willow
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The blinds

blazing grove
crude willow
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Ok good to know.

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Can you let me know what it says under device info?

blazing grove
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I bought it directly from their website because at least on the Canadian Amazon, they only had ZigBee, BT, Wifi or normal RF motors and not their matter motors. Might be different on .com, but their website is awesome and their support is great too if you contact them for whatever questions

crude willow
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In home assistant

blazing grove
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Smart Window Shade Tubular Motor

Not sure what other information you want, let me know

crude willow
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Sometimes it will let you know the manufacturer

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For instance on eve blinds it says

blazing grove
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by JLM

crude willow
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Eve motionblinds 20CAA1234 by eve systems

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Thanks. Haven't heard of that before.

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How did you set the end limits of the blind?

blazing grove
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Probably a random Chinese company sitting in the same room with the same parts as 100 other manufacturers 😂

crude willow
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Remote?

blazing grove
crude willow
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Ok

blazing grove
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No idea if I can change the limits haha

crude willow
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Thanks for all the info. I develop the eve motionblinds. So always good to know what competition is doing.

flat basin
vapid shell
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However 2 things - I would say more energy is going into matter at this point ( a good thing ) but the hk firmware is perhaps lagging

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And the HA homekit over thread implementation was reverse engineered, and the dev that did that work isn’t around any more. I still merge fixes, but there’s no one paid to work on it etc so you might find eg stability and battery life lags behind what matter equivalents are ultimately capable of.

open wigeon
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All my matter over thread devices have suddenly stopped working, as though the network is down. Can anyone please advise on the best way to troubleshoot this please? My SkyConnect is appearing in hardware. When I look at the Open Thread Border Router it has the Skyconnect listed as a service. The matter integration correctly shows all my devices, but the Thread integration shows no devices or entities, is this normal please?

vapid shell
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Are you using the SkyConnect with the “multiprotocol” addon?

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Have you checked the addon logs?

open wigeon
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It's so strange as everything was working fine and I havent done anything like updates to explain the issue.

vapid shell
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Are you running HAOS?

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Sounds like you are, but have to be sure

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And local storage? SSD? Or SD card?

open wigeon
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HA on a Synology VM, HDD.

urban sierra
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Hello, I just bought a skyconnect and connected to my NAS running latest HAOS. I did not detect anything, I installed Matter and Thread integrations and I want it to work as Thread Border Router. Any idea?

open wigeon
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Did you enable USB passthrough in the NAS software? I know Synology requires this

twin vine
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Did you enable USB pass though, and did you select the skyconnect in the thread configuration panel (add-on)

urban sierra
urban sierra
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Not sure what I could do 😩

twin vine
urban sierra
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It seems not

twin vine
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thats strange.....

urban sierra
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Also tried

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Restarted.. I spent already some hours testing

twin vine
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All working now, but if anybody comes across this issue and isn’t use to using virtualization station for qnap I had to stop the VM and then click the usb icon below the VM to allow the use of the skyconnect, then when I restarted the VM it showed up in HA and I was able to connect Aqara buttons without the need of the Area hub.

urban sierra
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@twin vine thanks for finding this. Will try ASAP

twin vine
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too easy

urban sierra
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A strange thing is happening now. I try to commission new Matter over Thread devices in the companion app, but it gives an error saying I need to commission from the companion app mindblown

twin vine
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and are you on the HA beta?

urban sierra
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Android

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Not beta

daring flare
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Hello, I have buy one Eve Door & Window (Thread + Homekit) sensor and I cannot see it into HA. It is pairing well in Eve App and in the Home app. How can I integrate it in HA ? I try the homekit bridge but I have an error saying the the Homekit code is invalid. I don't see the Eve device in the Homekit integration. Ideally I want to add it directly in my HA OTBR on SONOFF zdongle-e thread network.
I read this https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/homekit_controller#adding-a-homekit-device-to-a-thread-network-via-home-assistant without success. Do I miss something ?

vapid shell
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Do you have HomePods or thread enabled Apple TVs?

daring flare
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Yes if I understand I should see the device in the Homekit device integration

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No I don't have any Apple thread network. Only the OTBR from HA.

vapid shell
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And you run iOS?

daring flare
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Yes with an IPad

vapid shell
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When you add it to iOS it will connect over Bluetooth

daring flare
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exact

vapid shell
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Have you gotten it to work in iOS with thread do you know?

daring flare
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In the Eve App, there is a Thread menu, in which I see the device. But if I look in the device config itself, I only see Bluetooth. So I'm a little confuse to answer

vapid shell
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That’s a no 🙂

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Does your HA have a Bluetooth dongle?

daring flare
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No

vapid shell
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You need one, or you need a HomePod/Apple TV

daring flare
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Arf. That was my fear. I was hoping thread was compatible. Thank you for your help anyway

vapid shell
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It should work over thread

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But it needs Bluetooth to configure it

daring flare
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Ipad and my Android phone are bluetooth.

vapid shell
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That’s nice

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But HA can’t use them to do bluetooth

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You need a Bluetooth dongle or an ESPhome Bluetooth proxy

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Your iPad can do the Bluetooth if it’s a HomePod based thread network because we can trick iOS to do that bit of the setup for us

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But as you don’t you need to give your Ha Bluetooth of its own

daring flare
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I suppose if the device was "matter" and not Homekit I should be possible.

vapid shell
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No

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To pair it with iOS then you’d need a home hub. And a home hub is a border router, but a border router is not a home hub.

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You might be able to do it with your android then at least

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But that also has some restrictions 😅 it’s bad at forgetting old networks (so if you reset your OTBR it might cling to the old network) and you can’t use the “freedom” versions of things. No freedroid. Need google play. Need a google account.

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(With matter it still uses Bluetooth to set up thread, but the companion app uses libraries provided by Google and Apple to do it, so there are extra quirks)

twin vine
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Holy shit, seems like google has enabled trel again!

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my public preview nest hubs have trel enabled on them

digital salmon
twin vine
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Same fuchsia firmware it’s always been, so I assume they toggles a switch somewhere

digital salmon
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Crazy… 🤪

half marlin
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i have problems with my ZHA since some updates, i cant figure out whats the problem.. im using skyconnect multi protocol.. there is any know issue? it says setup failed.

quick bronze
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Do share the whole log entry over there

keen mango
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I'm annoyed I had to do this because the promised Multiprotocol support was the primary reason I bought SkyConnect. However I gave up after months of issues (although it did work, but every so often either Zigbee or Thread would randomly crash).

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The issues I was willing to deal with until I saw that Nabu Casa basically admitted defeat on the Multiprotocol front. They have not released any updates to Multiprotocol in months. Meanwhile OTBR continues to be updated.

sick swan
slender hornet
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How do I see that?

twin vine
slender hornet
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Forgive me, but I am not well versed with Thread. Is there something in HA for this or do I need to grab something from the Play store?

twin vine
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play store is the easist

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this one seems alright

slender hornet
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OK thanks.

slender hornet
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I finally got around to checking this. My two Nest hubs are also using trel. So I guess that's good.

still quiver
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New hardware?

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Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1

twin vine
still quiver
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The new silicon multilabs protocol update

twin vine
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I assume we will hear about it today when new core release drops

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Seems like this may have a external antenna like the Sonoff ones 🙈

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Follows the same naming scheme

cursive creek
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My guess would just be a renaming for possible future SkyConnect iterations
Cancel that. There is an additional elif, not a replacement.

steady forge
hallow jungle
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I have OTBR Add-On and Thread Integration up and running and the OTBR Network shows as "preferred" in Thread Integration. After syncing my network credentials via an Android phone and HA Companion App, I still get "your device requires a Thread Border Router" when trying to add a Thread device. Anyone an idea what I'm missing?

vapid shell
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And if you do it again, does it say exactly the same?

hallow jungle
vapid shell
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Both times?

hallow jungle
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I don't remember what it said the first time, but this is the message I received for 2nd and 3rd time

vapid shell
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Ok

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Which is a Google issue

hallow jungle
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Will delete the Thread credentials on my Phone ... unfortunately I only have an older Huawaii P30 ... hope their Android Version is not causing this ...

vapid shell
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The other common problem for that setup would be something interfering with ipv6 between your HAOS and you phone (like VLANs or multicast filtering “features” from network hardware)

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If you have a device without google play or you install the companion app from the freedroid App Store youll also struggle but i think that would have different errros

hallow jungle
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I only have one IP Network at home, no VLAN or anything of that sort. Will verify with the Credentials and need to see if I find another Android Device in my pile of old Mobile Phones.

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Thanks for the hints @vapid shell

hallow jungle
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Tried with another Android phone, same issue ... still telling me that I need a Thread Border Router 😦

vapid shell
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There are 3 messages im looking for as before - Added network from Home Assistant to this device, Home Assistant and this device use the same network and Updated network from Home Assistant to this device

hallow jungle
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Also on the second Android phone I got „Added Network..“ and „Home Assistant and this device…“ the second time I ran the Credential Sync.

vapid shell
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Good, at least we have rules that out

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In HA, if you go to the integrations section and “configure” thread, you should see all the border routers HA can see. Can you post a screenshot?

hallow jungle
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Can‘t post images here, seems like I don’t have the rights- sorry. But it shows my OTBR as preferred.

hallow jungle
vapid shell
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Ok next dumb question - is ipv6 turned on in HAOS? There should be a network settings panel where you can set ipv4 to static or dhcp. Needs to be on auto for thread to work properly.

hallow jungle
inner torrent
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What's the zbt-1 that's now supported?

vapid shell
twin vine
normal arch
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Which brand soc would you prefer?

twin vine
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the nRF54H20 is apparently really good

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but i dont even think its out yet tho

normal arch
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It's the same type of thing as silabs offers, it comes down to support I guess

crude willow
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Nordic is indeed quite good

twin vine
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thats why eve use them 😛

crude willow
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Indeed

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And support is indeed quite good

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What about h2 from esp

visual badge
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Silly question: if I already have an Apple TV 4K serving as a border router, what benefits do I get from adding a thread usb dongle to my HA server?

Is it just better positioning/expanded network? Or are there features I’m missing by relying on my Apple TV as my border router?

twin vine
visual badge
vapid shell
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On small networks it’s great because it can avoid partitioning if you don’t have enough devices to make a strong mesh

keen mango
quick bronze
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Something that'll be announced when it's ready?

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Looks to be a newer/variant of the SkyConnect, but that's just based off of others wild speculation

spring bramble
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its indeed just the skyconnect (with an updated model name)

upbeat cairn
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It's not even a variant, don't get too excited 😄

twin vine
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😔✊

dim pond
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Hi all, if I posted in the wrong channel, I apologize. Question about thread and matter and what it is. So thread a hardware protocol like Zigbee. If I want to use a thread device with Home Assistant, I don't need to attach a thread dongle into the ha server, as the thread border routers export it on the local network. Am I correct? And then I am confused how matter comes it to play here. What does matter do?

jolly nymph
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Hi, have anyone ever successfully connected an Eve Room 2 Sensor via Thread to Homeassistant? I have added the device via the Eve-App on iOS to my home, waited until the device is connected via Thread and then removed the device from Home. Then the device pops up in Homeassistant, but when I type the Code I got every time an error. And it is always the same error, doesn't matter I type the correct or the wrong code. I've done that procedure at least 10 times, but the error is always the same. All devices are in a flat Layer-2 Network. No VLANs or something like that between the Border Router (HomePod mini) and the Homeassistant instance. My Versions are:
Core: 2024.4.0
Supervisor: 2024.03.1
Operating System: 12.1
Frontend: 20240403.1
Can somebody that have successfully set up an Eve Room sensor give me a hint what i can do here? Thanks a lot.

serene prawnBOT
#

@jolly nymph I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
spring bramble
agile glade
#

anyone managed to get an Eve Power plug (new 2024 edition) working with HA Green & SkyConnect as OTBR using the android companion app? I do not have any other TBR device so bought the green to act as the hub. the provisioning in Google Home is failing with "Your device requires a Thread border router". in the OTBR debug log I can't see any errors logged during the provisioning. I do have an old nanoleaf that is able to see the OTBR though...

twin vine
agile glade
twin vine
rich river
# dim pond Hi all, if I posted in the wrong channel, I apologize. Question about thread an...

As I understand it…
Thread - The physical layer that devices use to communicate, alternative to WiFi, Ethernet, etc.
Matter - The language the devices use to communicate, “turn this light on”, “this switch has been pressed”, etc.

One big benefit of Thread and Matter is that you can (theoretically) mix and match, it’s possible to run other stuff over Thread (e.g. HomeKit over Thread), and you can run Matter over different physical layers (Matter over WiFi, Matter over Ethernet) 🙂

Vs Zigbee, which (I believe) is an everything standard, it covers everything from the coordinator through to the radio standard.

twin vine
#

basically that

#

and thread is IP based, while vanilla zigbee isnt

rich river
#

Yes, and while we talk about Thread Border Routers, they’re pretty much just IP routers which happen to have Thread as one of its networks (plus some additional Thread specific stuff for provisioning etc).
I’d say it’s reasonably likely that over time you’re going to see Thread rolled into home Internet routers alongside existing WiFi & Ethernet connectivity 🤷🏻‍♂️

twin vine
#

iirc

rich river
twin vine
#

dont have anything amazon, so could do

#

most all in one vendors in the thread group have already got thread enabled routers

rich river
#

The main ones (at least here in the UK) I think will be the ISP supplied routers, as most people tend to stick with what their ISP supplies, though that then also brings in the question of easy Thread provisioning with multiple generic brands, and how to handle Thread migration when someone changes ISP

twin vine
#

Which is why it’s a good thing end devices have a thread radio in them

agile glade
#

Is the skyconnect set as the preferred

normal arch
#

I have the nest wifi pro with thread, it auto joined my existing nest thread network (of which ha is also part of)

#

I have 3 border routers and 1 thread/homekit device 🙂

twin vine
#

Perks of thread 1.3!

strong nymph
#

Hi everyone - I've just picked up a Skyconnect. It's working great for zigbee. I'd also like to get a device for thread / matter, but I'm having trouble getting thread working. At the end of the day, I want something that works reliably, consistently.

The skyconnect home page says:

These limitations mean users will not have the best experience compared to using dedicated Zigbee and Thread radios. That is why we do not recommend using this firmware, and it will remain an experimental feature of Home Assistant SkyConnect.

So using skyconnect multiprotocol firmware isn't an option for me.

I have both an Apple TV 4k (eithernet) and a HomePod Mini on my network (both of which are documented to be thread border router devices). So my questions are:

  • Should I buy a second SkyConnect and use that with the thread firmware (instead of the multiprotocol firmware, which isn't great)? Or,
  • Can I get the apple devices on my network to function (I'm having trouble with that, but I'm probably simply not properly following the documentation)?

Thanks! 🙂

vapid shell
#

I am using 2 HomePods for thread and a SkyConnect for zigbee. I just followed the instructions and the pinned posts in #matter-archived.

strong nymph
marble perch
#

yeah, there's no real reason to make your home assistant machine itself be a thread border router if you already have other thread border routers on your network.

coral saddle
#

Hello folks, just wanted to ask if I need to do something specific or try with you to debug in detail connecting my Airversa AP2 Air Purifier to thread. It is currently connected as a HomeKit device in home assistant but when provisioning thread credentials I get the following error as below. Of course it works fully fine (thread connection is established) if connected through Apple HomeKit natively
Failed to call service button/press. 'None Type' object has no attribute 'encode'

Full error message log here:

https://pastebin.com/n1c4FwGF

HA is already setup as preferred router and working well, other border routers are joining HA network without issues and working fine over thread using HA network

I feel it might be related:

https://github.com/home-assistant/core/issues/109674

vapid shell
#

So there is a TLV (long hexadecimal string) and it gets set differently based on how you set your network up.

#

Yours is somehow invalid

#

It’s a valid TLV but it has no network name, so we can’t configure your airversa

#

Not enough detail to figure out how that happened but I’m guessing you used the home assistant app to import the thread network details from iOS for some HomePods?

#

It’s not 109674 btw

coral saddle
#

And it works/worked? I mean, I don’t seem to have issues with other border routers joining the home assistant network at least

https://postimg.cc/bZtQWfSS

vapid shell
#

in the screenshot you posted "network name" is blank

coral saddle
#

Yes

#

This is correct

vapid shell
#

for an apple network it shouldn't be

#

its something like "MyHome707732021"

coral saddle
#

I have selected HA as the leading coordinator

vapid shell
#

again, the network name is missing

#

where it says "7 border routers", above there it would normally have the name of the network

coral saddle
#

I’m sorry for being dumb, what would you recommend? How can I reset/fix this

vapid shell
#

i don't know

#

i used a similar trick to get the network out of nanoleaf

#

it shouldn't be needed these days because the official HA app should be able to import it directly

#

but it can't fix an already incorrect TLV, if i remember correctly

coral saddle
#

Thank you very much for your feedback. I will try to somehow rebuild the thread network from scratch, need to see how to approach this

coral saddle
# coral saddle And it works/worked? I mean, I don’t seem to have issues with other border route...

I’m sorry for asking but I am a bit desperate, I have already re-flashed the firmware from my skyconnect stick from zha-only to thread/multi a couple of times and also rebooted all the devices in my smart home, any idea on how to force the devices to form a new thread network short of starting from scratch? It somehow keeps the old thread network name from the screenshot above and I simply cannot purge it away…

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

The thread integration holds all the preferred networks. In theory you can delete the file it stores them in and then restart Ha, then import them from Apple directly using the HA app. Without touching your border routers.

coral saddle
#

Thank you so much for trying to support here, I am not sure which file to delete as right now I have switched to zha-only firmware, have no thread configuration under devices in home assistant but for example the Nanoleaf app still shows their devices connected via home-assistant thread network which shouldn’t even exist anymore 🙄

vapid shell
#

Yes it’s hard to untangle what you’ve done

#

I’d expect the iOS thread network to have been the dominant one

#

With Google possibly fighting to rename it to something else

#

Up until now (because the network name got wiped out) I didn’t even know you had a home assistant network as well

coral saddle
#

Thank you so much for not giving up on me 🥺

coral saddle
#

Still same network with no name, still same Pan id

vapid shell
#

Don’t do anything else

#

You need to get HA to forget its preferred network first

#

The border routers themselves are fine

#

And any existing devices should be fine

coral saddle
#

👍 I am comfortable using ssh, just missing the file to delete/config to change

vapid shell
#

I’ll help you do that but I have a screamy toddler so please continue to be patient 😿

coral saddle
#

Ah, no problem at all, just write at your convenience, and good luck 😬👍

vapid shell
#

First of all find your configuration directory and in there find the .storage folder. Look for a file that has a name starting thread.

#

(Over ssh)

#

There should only be one such file

coral saddle
#

I can offer thread.datasets

vapid shell
#

Take a backup, delete it, restart HA

#

You shouldn’t have a preferred network any more, and you should see a network called “home-assistant” with all those border routers hooked up to it

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

Of course you do it’s in the screenshot

#

Anyway press it

#

Then post an updated screenshot

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

You probably do need to be ? Not sure

coral saddle
#

I’ll try in 30min when I’m home, thanks so much, already 10 steps ahead from where I was thanks to you, I’ll post here the screenshot from when I’m home 🙇🏻‍♂️👍

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

What if you leave the screen and come back? Or hard refresh?

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

Yep, that looks like a success

coral saddle
#

Thank you so much ❤️🎉

vapid shell
#

well let’s not party yet

#

Try setting up your airversa again

#

Press the thread button in the Ui and it should get further this time

coral saddle
#

After enabling multi protocol support, yes?

vapid shell
#

No

#

Should work as is

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

It’s actually better to use the SkyConnect or whatever for zigbee and your other border routers for thread btw

vapid shell
coral saddle
#

Oh, can you elaborate why?

#

Thanks again for your tremendous support 🙇🏻‍♂️🙇🏻‍♂️

vapid shell
#

So one thing is that the firmware has some stability issues, apparently.

#

But actually even if it was perfect

#

Ideally you have thread on one channel and zigbee on another to avoid congestion

#

Thread and zigbee are fairly low bandwidth and so trying to run them on one radio on one channel…

coral saddle
#

That makes sense, although I haven’t experienced issues (besides the airversa..) thank you for the explanation

vapid shell
#

I think it gets worse as you add more devices

coral saddle
#

Understood, I guess my network is still small with only 37 zigbee and 4 or so thread devices

#

Once again, thank you so much for taking your time and helping me so patiently

crimson sail
#

also, if already have a thread border router in my network (nest home hub). if i flash it, will the thread dongle seamless integrate into the network or thread only likes to talk to same manufacture devices to expand the network

quick bronze
#

also, if already have a thread border

jade quest
#

Is it possible to sync thread credentials from my primary network across to a second HA instance (both instances are running OTBR addon)?

jade quest
#

oh thats easy

crimson sail
vapid shell
#

Right now we suspect there are some compatibility issues between the current Apple stable trel for example and OTBR. Just because we ship closer to upstream, and there is a year or more older already (presumably with fixes backported)

#

And mixing trel and non trel technically works, but if you have weak points in your mesh that depend on trel.. adding non trel just increases your chances that packets will go missing.

#

And right now there isn’t a standard for having multiple vendors “own” the mesh. So you could end up with devices fighting each other

#

Sometimes that’s harmless (the name of the network randomly changes)

crimson sail
#

Isn’t the whole point to have a “standard”

vapid shell
#

But if someone from Apple or Google decides to enable auto channel changing and you use multiprotocol.. well your zigbee stuff will be on the wrong channel AIUI

#

That one’s more theoretical (I don’t think anyone ships with that on?) but is the kind of thing that can happen when multiple vendors think they are in charge of mesh configuration

#

To mean It’s like having netgear and linksys wifi with the same ssid and passphrase

crimson sail
#

I guess zigbee is more mature so they work better amongst themselves?

#

Like if I have a nanoleaf light and hue lights they should still expand the network right?

vapid shell
#

That’s debatable! Router compatibility is an issue with zigbee

quick bronze
#

Zigbee's problems are just better understood IMO

vapid shell
#

Exactly

quick bronze
vapid shell
#

With thread there are multiple things which think they are in control of the mesh

#

In zigbee there is only one

#

Your network name shouldn’t randomly change because you added a border router

#

But that’s what happens to a lot of people

#

I think I even remember seeing someone on discord saying it flip flopped between Google’s name and apples name over a bunch of days

#

But even if that kinda works, for me it’s as simple as I bet Apple test more HomePod border routing stuff than HomePod to skyconnect stuff. And I bet Google test more google to google border routing stuff than they do google to Apple. I don’t want a hobby restarting my border routers. So I’m going to stick to one vendor until things are more stable.

twin vine
vapid shell
#

(Again that’s sort of what we see with Apple trel and otbr trel)

twin vine
#

but like, again. can be rocky at times

crimson sail
#

Are devices suppose to broadcast which thread router they are connected to? I only have 1 thread device so far and only 1 thread router (nest hub) but I’ve never seen it say which router it’s connected to just that it’s connected

twin vine
vapid shell
#

They do over mdns

#

Which you can see in the Ha UI

#

There’s an ext pan id and network name which can be used to roughly group them

crimson sail
twin vine
#

i mean, if you want graphical. while its not at all stable and most of the time not reliable for large networks. the OTBR webgui.

vapid shell
#

Though they can look to be in the same network and be misconfigured

#

Is where the HA GUI can see multiple border routers merged together on a single network

twin vine
vapid shell
#

It was never told anything about the border routers, it figures that out through mdns

twin vine
#

i mean, also you are playing with some having trel and others not (nanoleaf and used to be google for a while)

vapid shell
#

Yeah mine is just a list of Apple logos for all the reasons I’ve said

twin vine
#

tho. im shocked that guy got apples BR's onto "ha's" network

#

unless its just renamed

vapid shell
#

Well that was my next point

#

Pretty sure apples network got borged by skyconnect

#

And now there isn’t even an OTBR on that network

twin vine
#

yeah, seems cooked

vapid shell
#

It will work because the “dataplane” is well defined, but does Apple still think it’s in charge of that network?

twin vine
#

almost no way to tell as far as im concerned, apples implemenation is so closed source its not funny, atleast google and co there is open source fimware running behind the scene

#

and no doubt its doing something behind the scenes to ensure the best experience for apple-only users

vapid shell
#

pretty sure we have seen the same happen with nest

coral saddle
#

To be fair, I unfortunately had to enable the multi protocol on skyconnect again (I have matter devices I want to control in HA and don’t want to buy another controller for that) and seems to work fine, no issues since 🤷🏻‍♂️

https://postimg.cc/nMgCx1mX

#

If things get sideways I can always buy the poor guy willing to support me a coffee 🥸🤓

vapid shell
coral saddle
#

I misspoke, I think I just want HA to be the lead for everything smart

vapid shell
#

but it won't be the lead

#

in thread, the "leader" is elected at runtime by the devices themselves and can change at any time.

coral saddle
#

Can you elaborate? I thought by adding matter/zigbee/zwave/bt to HA first it should be?

#

Ah, well, at least I can tell myself that it is 🙈

twin vine
#

It is dynamically self-elected for fault tolerance, and aggregates and distributes network-wide configuration information.

#

its best not one router is the "leader"

vapid shell
#

on my network i think an Eve Energy is currently leader, not even a BR

coral saddle
#

So you’d recommend me to just delete the skyconnect border router? Won’t it add it back automagically because I have thread devices in HA?

twin vine
#

oh yeah, iirc the only restriction is that no sleepy devices can be the leaders

coral saddle
#

I want to be able to talk to matter/thread/zigbee with the skyconnect still

twin vine
#

well, with matter. it might not use the skyconnect for most of the talking, depending on the route

#

you just cant control it

coral saddle
#

So if I understood it correctly, as I want my skyconnect stick (with all its downfalls) to talk to zigbee/thread and matter devices, best I do not use the HA BR and delete it and let other devices take the lead? I mean my situation is kind of special as you told as I somehow managed to bork my thread network in a way that HA is the lead. So I think I just go with it until I see some breakage?

vapid shell
#

from our point of view, we know that multiprotocol is not a priority for further development right now. so we can't encourage anyone to build their stack on something like that.

twin vine
#

i mean, multipan has its own issues. so why not run zigbee only. and let your merged thread network handle the matter?

vapid shell
#

thats also what i think is best

#

if you must have a HA controlled thread border router we'd encourage you to have 2 sticks, one zigbee and one thread

#

but you'd only be pretending that it was leader

#

and we have seen thread devices lock up on otbr/apple hybrid networks

#

so i would be a bad person if i in anyway encouraged you here

coral saddle
#

Thank you for the explanation, I guess I’ll put one more stick in my box then 😔👍 I’ll see how it goes and if it breaks I will remember to switch my config around

vapid shell
#

honestly it's like having 4 enterprise wifi access points and then configuring the wifi chip on your raspberry pi to be a 5th access point

coral saddle
#

I just cannot grasp how I would be able to run automations in HA without having multipan enabled. Example I have a thread HomeKit device I run automations for out of HA. I guess if I would just use the zigbee only skyconnect fw I would need to migrate my automations e.g. to HomeKit

vapid shell
#

no

#

i think you need to read a thread primer

#

thread is sort of like wifi

#

different trade offs - it is much slower, but uses much less battery

#

each thread border router is like a wifi access point

#

any device on the same wifi or ethernet as your border router can see all of your thread devices (at an ip level)

#

you can ping your airversa from your laptop if it has a good enough ipv6 stack

coral saddle
vapid shell
#

no

#

matter is a layer above thread

#

just like websites are http and run on top of your wifi

#

so matter can work over ethernet, wifi, or thread. its just another ip protocol.

coral saddle
#

Ah, so I’d still see the matter devices in HA as it is being broadcast either over thread (my other thread BR will see that and thus link it to HA) or WiFi (same)

vapid shell
#

so when you install OTBR on your HAOS its turning it into a BR just like the apple and google ones

#

it just happens to be on the same device as HA

coral saddle
#

It made a click in my brain now, thank you so much once again! 🙇🏻‍♂️

vapid shell
#

but networking wise, its doing much the same as Apple and Google and Nanoleaf

#

actually because ipv6 doesn't know about thread, you might end up with packets going to different BR's within a couple of seconds

#

or they might come back through a different BR to the one you sent them through

cobalt raven
#

I was shooting for just having everything on my HA box, but I’d prefer stability over a jack of all trades.

vapid shell
#

if its working its working, but if you start to have problems as you get more stuff remember it as a place to start

#

if you have plenty of BR's already it doesn't add anything, it doesn't give HA any more control, and it's just introducing risk.

coral saddle
#

So I reverted back to zigbee firmware only on my skyconnect, now I’d need to install the otbr addon, right? I am restarting HA currently as I saw errors in the log of the addon being not able to flash some firmware on the stick…

vapid shell
coral saddle
#

Oh, thanks 🙈

#

Now just running the normal zha and won’t touch multi-pan again 🙈

#

Thank you once more, really, you deserve a medal for helping and being so patient, I thought I’d be smart but it seems it’s just my home which is 🙄

still quiver
# vapid shell from our point of view, we know that multiprotocol is not a priority for further...

just curious if this means multi-pan for the SkyConnect is dead. Will new hardware replace it? or is multi-pan in general, the issue. I get 10 to 15 NCP failures a week, the system recovers itself 97% of the time, on occassion (once every 2 months), it does not and I have to reboot host to solve it. The ConbeeIII, from what understand also has multi-pan and the same chips as the SkyConnect, are they going down the same dead end?

vapid shell
#

but logically, the maximum performance of multipan will always be less than having dedicated zigbee and thread radios

#

AIUI a lot of people ended up upgrading their ZHA to multiprotocol and did suffer from crashes a lot, and blamed it on ZHA when it was actually silabs firmware. but i might be mischaracterizing the situation.

#

if the firmware issues do improve i think it will be an interesting way to dip your toes in thread if you already have zigbee

#

we say the same about bluetooth in HA btw. You can run esphome bluetooh proxies over wifi, and it works ok. but it will only beat a usb dongle with ethernet, because the ESP has to use the same radio for 2 different protocols. it doesnt have a dedicated bluetooth radio

coral saddle
#

Also, if I compare the network topology graphs I do have way more green lines in the topology which at least makes it look nicer, not sure if the connection quality really increased 🤷🏻‍♂️

keen mango
#

I previously used Multiprotocol but indeed experienced occasional ZHA crashes. It worked most of the time but the issues were annoying. And it seems the Multiprotocol add-on is no longer getting updated, unlike OTBR.

#

For Thread, I do use multiple Border Routers. SkyConnect OTBR, Nest Hub (2nd gen) and two Nanoleaf Shapes controllers. Honestly it works great. I had issues in the past due to Nanoleaf Essentials firmware but these were fixed by both Nanoleaf and Home Assistant.

#

I actually had to unplug my Nest Hub yesterday due to spring cleaning. I didn't even realize it was down because everything still works. The Thread network is named NEST-PAN but works without it.

To mesh SkyConnect I had to change the channel (17 in my case) and Import Credentials in the Home Assistant Android app. Then set Nest Hub as the Preferred Network. The Nanoleaf controllers were smart enough to join the same network automatically.

faint siren
#

Skyconnect is good enough as a dedicated thread border router?

#

I already have one, but only for Zigbee. Wouldn't mind getting another just for Thread.

#

I don't care to spend 60-100 on Samsung, Amazon, or Google TBR's.

cobalt raven
#

I also picked up something else for Zigbee, just use SkyConnect for OTBR.

twin vine
faint siren
#

I do have a Skyconnect that I'm only using for Zigbee. Otherwise I don't have a TBR.

knotty citrus
#

Did anything change about the thread+matter+HA in very recent version (~last 2 weeks)? I recently upgraded to the latest release (2024.4.2) from some roughly older version (2023.3.x) and for me all my thread devices (Onvis smart plugs) are showing offline.

restive arrow
#

I recently found out that HA Python Matter has a WEB UI. I love it!!! Please add👍 a lot more debug and monitoring functions to it!!!!

tardy monolith
#

Hello, I have two Thread network (empty), one with HA named ha-thread-0ae0 and a second named NEST-PAN-A0D3 with one Google Nest Hub Max and one Google Nest Hub. I once added a matter over thread aqara door & window sensor P2. it was working fine, but on the last upgrade, 2024-4-2, I lost it. Is it possible to have only one thread network with the 3 routers ? how can i use the same channel for all, as i didn't see any management on the google stuff ? and use a single credential ??? Is it possible to have several "HA based" Open Thread Border Router ? As I was writing, my ha-thread-0ae0 network goes empty and I got a new named OpenThread 😕 what are the recommended settings ??? I am OK for a HW point of view, skyconnect with thread and Z2M on a zbdongle-p, no multiprotocol. Regards, Benoit.

keen mango
#

I will note, that the Home Assistant developers don't exactly recommend doing this. But it works great for me...

tardy monolith
#

I am stuck on 4.Set the NEST-PAN network as Preferred. it is under "other network", and i don't have any 3 dots on the google network. all I can do is reset border or change channel. the google stuff seems to be on channel 11 on homeassistant:8080 and ha-tread in on channel 15. is it the reason ?

crude willow
#

Is there a way to see the signal strength of a device? I have lost an eve motion sensor and was hoping to see where to look roughly 😛

marble perch
#

is this a matter device or homekit?

#

if it's matter, you can open the matter server web ui from the addon page, click on the device in the list, and look for the thread network diagnostics, which should be in "0/53/7"

#

otherwise… up to which thread border router's you're using to see if they expose any network topology diagnostics (OTBR does).

#

hmm. that said, i'm not sure whether the data shown by the matter add-on is kept up to date automatically (and if not, whether it can be manually updated)

spring bramble
keen mango
unreal cobalt
#

Hey,
I have a raspberry pi 4 running homeassistant supervised with an nRF52480 dongle working as RCP for my OTBR add-on, everything seems to work fine but whenever I try to connect anything to my thread network it does not connect. We have a connection to the device, we have the matter identifier connected but it is the network connectivity that seems to be blocking ... does anyone have any idea how to help me? Note: I have a ESP32-H2 to connect to this thread network

crude willow
crude willow
crude willow
#

Anyone has an idea of a range estimate 😂

knotty citrus
#

With my recent HA OS upgrades, Thread+Matter broke and I'm not sure where to start debugging. I tried undoing some recent upgrades using backups but that didn't really help. Now I'm digging through the logs. Folks, can you advice me on which logs I should look into?

#

I see thse error msgs often in my OTBR addon log (full log here) : https://dpaste.org/PuTj9

otbr-agent[168]: 00:00:29.424 [W] Platform------: [netif] ADD [U] fd50:efb0:8853:12fc:0:ff:fe00:2801 failed (InvalidArgs)
otbr-agent[168]: 00:00:29.424 [W] Platform------: [netif] Failed to process event, error:InvalidArgs

and repeating below lines forever:

otbr-agent[168]: 00:10:58.593 [N] MeshForwarder-:     src:[fd50:efb0:8853:12fc:26c8:54ac:b5e6:7578]:53
otbr-agent[168]: 00:10:58.593 [N] MeshForwarder-:     dst:[fd50:efb0:8853:12fc:56af:dc00:8bf0:f135]:49153
otbr-agent[168]: 00:11:02.930 [N] MeshForwarder-: Failed to send IPv6 UDP msg, len:139, chksum:a2a0, ecn:no, to:0xcc00, sec:yes, error:NoAck, prio:normal, radio:15.4
#

Are these real errors?

rich river
#

Probably unrelated, but had some issues adding a new Matter device after going to the latest HA and/or Matter server, and was getting messages which seemed to suggest network issues. Did a full HAOS reboot in the end (not a restart) to clear the issues.

knotty citrus
#

Nope... just reflashed the device and rebooted the computer and the HA OS VM

#

supposedly there were a bunch of debugging features added for matter/thread in last few months -- how / where can I find them?

tardy monolith
# keen mango For me, the option to set NEST-PAN only appears after pressing "Import credentia...

I deleted my lost detector in google home and in HA. I imported the credentials, then I could select the Nest-pan network. I got my nest-pan to channel 11 and HA to channel 15, but impossible to change it to 11. I put it like that in the preferred network, it works. I tried to change the channel to 25, but it doesn't show anything. a fiew reboots later, all was running on channel 25 !!!. but every time I tried to add a device, it fails an say "impossible to reach ha-thread-e6f6" I tried to synchronise the credentials on settings / app compagnon / debug and synchronyse thread credentials, after the "do you want to HA access to your network" and i say yes, there is a message: synchronyse thread credentials / HA and this device prefers differents networks (prefered device: ha-thread-e6f6).... Grrr I am so close !!

keen mango
#

Sounds frustrating. Unfortunately I can't help you further as I wrote all I know...

tardy monolith
#

I will try to reinstall all, I know in what order I need to do things... thats a big step forward !!!👍

twin vine
#

In the Companion app, go to Settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then select Sync Thread credentials.

tardy monolith
#

Yes Android, but it is in French, I translated troubleshooting by debugging, because of the bug 🪲.. 😆 . By the way, is there a difference with the Sync Thread credentials in settings > devices > Thread > Configure > Import Thread Credenticals ?

glacial sage
#

As of Apr'24, is it possible to use SkyConnect with Thread-only firmware as Thread border router in a HA Container install?

6 months ago, it was not possible and I am not sure of the current situation from reading the Thread integration documentation page.

twin vine
#

Uhhh possibly

#

You need a fair workaround tho

#

Lemme find who had done it

twin vine
#

huh, appears trel is gone on google BR's again....

normal arch
#

Still active here

twin vine
#

Huh yeah, it’s being advertised (_trel), but not showing in HA gui. Rather odd

digital salmon
twin vine
#

Looking at the responses from the API, but I only realised that none of the fuchsia stuff is showing in a thread network at all…

autumn merlin
#

Hi All, can i use SkyConnect for thread? It has been in multiprotocol mode, but now i have a ethernet/poe based zigbee coordinator. So just need thread.

twin vine
#

just use the thread OTBR add-on

#

and remove multipan

autumn merlin
# twin vine yes

Thanks! Figured it out, re-flashed the SkyConnect, removed all the thread/open stream stuff, removed multiprotocol add on, installed open thread add on. 🙂

#

Ive finally moved from the SkyConnect with multiprotocol to seperate radios for thread (SkyConnect) and zigbee (Zig-star UZG-01).

keen mango
autumn merlin
mild goblet
#

I need a quick lesson from someone who knows Thread better than I do. I'm in the process of trying to reverse-engineer a Thread device. One reason is that I want to integrate it into HA, but another reason is that I plan on porting an existing device I built from WiFi to Thread to get a mesh network for free.

My usual approach for network reverse engineering is to throw Wireshark at it. I own a nRF52840 Dongle, so that should work. The Thread network is an Apple-managed one, but I also have added an OTBR with the SkyConnect dongle. I used the HA iOS app to import credentials, and I can see a complete mesh in the OTBR web UI. So it seems to work.

I extracted the network key from the OTBR's Rest API at /node/dataset/active. I configured Wireshark according to the Nordic docs, except for https://docs.nordicsemi.com/bundle/ug_sniffer_802154/page/UG/sniffer_802154/configuring_sniffer_802154_thread_6loWPAN.html, where I didn't use their prefixes, and instead used the MeshLocalPrefix that the OTBR provided me.

Capturing in Wireshark gives me a lot of traffic. For some packets, I do see resolved source and destination addresses with their full prefix, and I also see the decrypted UDP payload. Great! But that traffic appears to be traffic between the routers only, as well as traffic from a router to a child (in my case, 0x2c07 is a child I'm interested in, and 0x2c00 is the closest router, the one that it's connected to according to the Topology graph in the OTBR web UI). However, for the return packet, i.e. source==0x2c07 and dest==0x2c00, I do not see the payload. Instead, I get a "[Expert Info (Warning/Undecoded): No extended source address - can't decrypt]".

This is confusing to me, as my current understanding is that a) all devices within a Thread network use the same prefix (which I have configured), and b) all devices use the same network key.

Am I misunderstanding something, or doing something wrong, or am I trying to do something that's not possible?

sick swan
#

I think not all packets use the full extended address if I am not mistaken.

#

Receive Aqara Motion and Light Sensor P2 using Thread/Matter, anyone has those running 😅 I am exited to find out how they do!

mild goblet
# sick swan I think not all packets use the full extended address if I am not mistaken.

That's true, but Wireshark is doing some internal lookup anyway. Even in cases where the packet has the short addressing mode for source and destination, Wireshark is sometimes able to ... look up the full address and decode the packet. It appears like I can't post screenshots, but I see a fully decoded packet where both the Source Addressing Mode and the Destination Addressing Mode are set to 0b10, which is the short mode.

#

Ah, Wireshark got that info from a Mesh Link Establishment advertisement packet, which only routers send. So I probably need to find a way to look up the extended address somehow, and find a way to make Wireshark aware of that.

Grr, why is nothing ever easy. :)

#

The OTBR CLI has a method for that, but of course it's not exposed via the REST API, and the Docker image shipped for HA doesn't ship with the CLI 🙃

sick swan
#

Oh I see, yeah I guess it just can't look it up then because it hasn't seen the full address for that particular node so far... 🤔

sick swan
#

If you are using HAOS, I usually use SSH to the underlying host system (port 22222), then docker exec into the container. This gives you full access to the OTBR, including ot-ctl.

#

Alternatively you can also use the Community SSH/Terminal, afaik it gives access to Docker directly.

#

This gives you a shell in the add-on

docker exec -it addon_core_openthread_border_router /bin/bash
mild goblet
#

huh

#

oh, it IS in the container. I checked last night, but I... I typed ot-cli instead of ot-ctl, and ot-cli is very much not in the path. 🤦

#

Oh well, I have more learning to do. child list only shows childs directly connected to the OTBR, not others. meshdiag topology children lists the children I'm looking for, but it only shows their short addresses, which I already know. So I have to do more digging

#

Or.. I could just force the child to connect to the OTBR, of course, which might be easier at this point. But less learning, so where's the fun in that

mild goblet
#

Success! Building the full RLOC based on the MeshLocalPrefix and the RLOC16 (https://openthread.io/guides/thread-primer/ipv6-addressing#how_a_routing_locator_is_generated) and throwing that into https://openthread.io/reference/cli/commands#networkdiagnostic_get gives me the extended address. for a known-to-wireshark-source, this matches what wireshark shows. So I'm a step further, but I have to come back to this.

(Also, sorry if I'm rambling like this. Not all communities like that. My motivation here is to document what I think and do so that if someone in the future wants to do the same, they have some useful keywords to find. If I'm annoying, please let me know! :D)

ionic plaza
#

Anyone using NL essentials (Matter) beta firmware? May I ask what is the latest version?

spark hornet
#

😬

twin vine
#

been out for a month or so

#

its on both stable and the beta

ionic plaza
#

I also tried their shapes, its built-in TBR can be added to Apple Thread Network. Now I got three in it

twin vine
#

dope!

ionic plaza
#

I am thinking of adding one more to my OpenWRT setup

unreal cobalt
#

Ive been trying to use an nRF52840 dongle as an otbr, It seems to accept it as otbr in my add on but as I try to connect an ESP32-H2 onto it using HA. It doesnt seem to be able to be configured to it. Whenever I scan it's QR code, I have a connection to the device, matter identifier is connected but it is the network connectivity that seems to be blocking. We don't have any issue for other devices using Matter/Wifi and When looking at the topology in the Thread web interface we can see a router being added ... Anyone knows what could be the reason of this issue and how to solve this?

vapid shell
blazing grove
#

Is there any way to visually see a thread network/mesh?

#

I mean something similar to the map in Zigbee2MQTT

#

Also, is there a way to reload devices so that they choose a new "best" route if the network changed?

mild goblet
mild goblet
blazing grove
mild goblet
#

is your home assistant OTBR already in your network? if yes, you probably just have to enable the port. go the the addon settings for the OTBR addon, go down to the "Network" section, enable the "show disabled ports" toggle, and set a port for the web ui

#

note that the UI only works if OTBR is already part of the network. you can't build a map from outside the network

blazing grove
#

Perfect, found it and the mesh looks the way I want it to be 🥳

#

Thank you!

mild goblet
silver mountain
#

I will respons for him as we’re working together, we’re using homeassistant supervised on Debian 11 bullyese, basic home wifi ( so no vlan I assume), scanning the matter seconde with a android after going on Settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting > Sync Thread credentials which says everything went ok

vapid shell
#

It’s important to note the exact message you get from “sync thread credentials” and to repeat the process twice. It should say the credential was updated once and that everything was up to date the second. If it keeps saying it did something you have hit a known Android bug.

unreal cobalt
vapid shell
unreal cobalt
#

Okay Thanks a lot for all this info ! I'll try this out and hope this works out

ionic plaza
#

Now I got four tbr in one network😆

twin vine
#

huh, no icon tho

#

might have to get whats his name onto it

#

its aqara_bridge

#

@ionic plaza what brand shows up under _meshcop._udp.local.

#

ill make a pull request to add the icon

grizzled imp
twin vine
#

also the name for smartthings

#

as that seems to have an icon

ionic plaza
serene prawnBOT
#

@ionic plaza I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
grizzled imp
serene prawnBOT
#

@ionic plaza I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
ionic plaza
#

Hope these would help lol 😂 I got them from Discovery app

twin vine
#

according to this, it should be in there

#

oh yeah vn

#

duh, vender

grizzled imp
twin vine
#

yep

#

as you can see in the PR, it alreay has a dictornary setup with vendors and its corresponding vn name

grizzled imp
twin vine
#

@ionic plaza any other BR you got without an image?

ionic plaza
twin vine
#

that is stefan, like the main dude

#

im just trying to figure out if just adding

# 
 "Aqara" : "aqara",
 "Samsung" : "samsung"
#

will brick anything, and how its actually getting those images

ionic plaza
#

😔sadly all ten Aqara switch/sockets I got not support by M3 matter bridge

#

I plan to add them to Z2M once I upgraded their firmware

ionic plaza
twin vine
#

i dont wanna make a pull adding what i put above just for it not to work 🤣

#

this is like a maze my god, maybe stefan can add these on monday or something

#

oh wait, my fix should just work?

#

eh, ill submit a pr and see what happens

ionic plaza
twin vine
#

i have 0 idea if this is going to even get pulled

#

but

#

it can be fixed its wrong by stef or someone else

inner torrent
#

The Home Assistant Green smart home hub will be sold on Amazon this year, the first time the organization will sell directly to consumers. A new line of Home Assistant Connect dongles for Thread / Zigbee and Z-Wave will follow. These connect the hub to gadgets that use those protocols (and will replace the SkyConnect dongle).

marble perch
#

there's been some commits on the silabs_flasher add-on that are a bit revealing there… apparently the upcoming adapter is called the "Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1" and… is identical to the SkyConnect (uses the same firmware images)

#

I think they're just renaming it for trademark reasons.

faint siren
#

They said the new dongle will be just like the Skyconnect and that the Skyconnect will not be made obsolete.

#

They did make it a point about being against E-waste and didn't want people to feel like they had to dump the Skyconnect(and other old hardware) to upgrade to the new one.

inner torrent
#

Ah okay thanks, that's good news. I hadn't had the opportunity to watch the stream yet.

twin vine
#

Yeah, seems like just a naming rebrand

spring bramble
#

Its indeed just a rebrand - its 100% exactly the same product

#

This way we're able to launch other devices like a Z-Wave stick under this same umbrella

#

SkyConnect was a too generic name and awful for copyright infringements etc.
So a base "Connect" lineup with a product number is better

tired juniper
#

Yay my thread motion blind in on its way arriving tomorrow exited to try it

dreamy inlet
#

smartwings?

crude willow
#

I think motion blinds @dreamy inlet . Did you buy roller blinds or what @tired juniper ?

tired juniper
crude willow
tired juniper
crude willow
#

Or will you get homekit version?

#

And do you have a homepod?

tired juniper
crude willow
#

Because we used to sell the motors as homekit. And we recently started delivering matter out of the box to customers

tired juniper
crude willow
#

But I don't know that customer. So can't tell if they have it already

tired juniper
#

There is a matter qr code on it too

#

On the motor tube

#

Need to wait for my gf to wake up so I can install it too long to install on my own

crude willow
#

Can you send the exact link?

tired juniper
#

Says thread

crude willow
#

Thread not matter

tired juniper
#

Matter over thread

crude willow
#

3rd picture shows homekit

#

Not matter

#

It's matter ready

tired juniper
#

Eve MotionBlinds motors are designed to support Matter-over-Thread

crude willow
#

Future proof, Built with Thread - Matter ready. Click here to learn more

tired juniper
#

The manual shows googhle home thread support

crude willow
#

I think you will get homekit motors. But hopefully not

#

You have the manual?

tired juniper
#

Yea

crude willow
#

Like online or irl?

tired juniper
crude willow
#

Ok nvm that's matter motor

tired juniper
#

Stop trying to make me panic

crude willow
#

Sorry I thought you got it tomorrow 🙈

#

I read it a few hours ago. And I am in Canada right now. So bit mixed up with time 😂

tired juniper
#

Prefer the brackets on the ikea smart blinds tbh as this is going in a recess I'm gonna have to drill at an angle as brackets gonna be close to wall

crude willow
#

Do you have a picture? Not really clear what you mean

tired juniper
#

What's best way to measure mount it?

#

Install brackets offernit up and pencil it?

crude willow
#

If you could send a picture I can take a look

#

Of the window.

tired juniper
crude willow
#

I think I would mount it in the ceiling

#

Next to the wooden part I think

#

In the recess

#

I unfortunately can't answer any more. Going in a meeting for a few hours. Hopefully you will manage. If not just let me know and will try to get back to you

tired juniper
#

The wooden bit is part of old blind need to take it out

crude willow
#

Yeah I would mount it there

tired juniper
#

Yea that's where I'm gonna

#

Just as the ends slide into brackets not much room for error

#

The ikea design you can clip it into brackets anywhere along length so as long as depth is measured will clip together

crude willow
#

What I sometimes recommend is assemble and draw the holes

#

Yeah but you need a cassette for that

#

This is I think just brackets and open roll

tired juniper
#

Yea

#

Hopefully install goes well

crude willow
#

It must 🙏🏻🙏🏻

#

Have a nice day and good luck with the install

#

Also maybe check out the speeds. If it is a bed room maybe 10 rpm is nicer

#

Default is 20, next is 24, than 28, than 10, than 16

tired juniper
#

I can change speeds that pretty cool

crude willow
#

You need to hold the round transparent program button

#

If you can please send a picture of the motorhead.

tired juniper
#

I got a fsr bed sensor I DIY so wanna make it open and close blind when get into and out of bed

crude willow
#

Want to see if our customer does it correctly

#

Just FYI I develop these motors.

#

And we sell them to assembly companies.

#

They don't always follow our manuals and stuff like that unfortunately

tired juniper
crude willow
#

Nice they do what they should

#

Left round button for 5 seconds

tired juniper
#

How do they muck it up?

crude willow
#

It will change the speed.

#

But do it after setting end limits

#

Otherwise it will be slow with setup

tired juniper
#

K

crude willow
#

That you need for setting the end limits

tired juniper
#

I'll set end limits then connect to HA and see what's what

crude willow
#

Just mount it. And hold pull till you get to bottom position. Press hold white button. It will save

#

Go to top with pull and hold button to save

#

Your doen

#

Done

#

Scan qr for ha. Et voilà

tired juniper
#

Nice will replace curtains with the eve one when it's released

tired juniper
#

I rethought end positioned opposite and now its ok

crude willow
#

You can double press the program button the white one. And it will swap the direction @tired juniper

#

How was the installation?

tired juniper
# crude willow How was the installation?

A bit of a pain lol as the brackets as so close to the wall at either end the drill is at an angle caused the holes to be oversize for my wall plugs, also hit some metal bits in wall that I had to get through.

The ikea ones even though doesn't look as nice was a far nicer install with the brackets further away from the wall

#

But it's up now its not pretty but the plastic covers hides the mess

crude willow
tired juniper
twin vine
#

That seems like an issue with whatever vendor you got it from

abstract cipher
#

Hi everyone, are there any other Thread bulbs other than Nanoleaf on the market?

tired juniper
crude willow
#

Hmm. I understand

#

Hopefully you will enjoy the rest

jade yarrow
#

Hello, I have an docker env ha (core: 2024.4.4) and want to use matter/thread with my conbee 3. With matter is works, but not with thread. I already updated the newest firmware for the conbee3, but i cannot find any pref. networks in the threads extension for ha. I already asked the vendor of this stick, but no one can help me. Perhaps someone can help me. Here my env: https://goonlinetools.com/snapshot/code/#l25ez46lhxbngy6v8vr3uk

spring bramble
jade yarrow
#

but if i installed directly it should be working?

twin vine
#

you read this?

jade yarrow
#

nope, but i will read it now

#

I also have an matter-server with this configation. I also get these logs from the container:
matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:33:46.522 (MainThread) WARNING [FabricAdmin] Allocating new controller with CaIndex: 1, FabricId: 0x0000000000000001, NodeId: 0x000000000001B669, CatTags: [] matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:08.935 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DIS] DNSSD packet parsing failed (for non-srv records) matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:08.935 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DIS] DNSSD packet parsing failed (for SRV records) matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:27.185 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.device_controller] Attempting to resolve node 1... (attempt 2 of 2) matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:30.827 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.device_controller.node_1] Setting up attributes and events subscription. matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:36.929 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.device_controller.node_1] Subscription succeeded matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:42.269 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DIS] DNSSD packet parsing failed (for SRV records) matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:42.269 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DIS] DNSSD packet parsing failed (for non-srv records) matter-server | 2024-04-24 13:34:42.270 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DIS] DNSSD packet parsing failed (for SRV records)

twin vine
#

do you have the aircast add-on?

#

hsa some fixes, but if thats in a container its going to be harder to find the issue

#

something about ipv6, you got it enabled network wide?

spring bramble
jade yarrow
#

matter works, but i cannot use thread. I dont find any prefered networks.

jade yarrow
marble perch
#

Have you installed the openthread rcp firmware on the conbee III and set it up with openthread border router software?

#

(i think that would be a lot easier on haos since the openthread border router is available as an add-on)

jade yarrow
marble perch
#

(oh, that's due to the port mapping on the docker startup command they say to use in the previous step)

jade yarrow
twin vine
#

the api is port 8081 no?

#

oh wait the api is on the same port as the api

marble perch
#

api is on the same port as the web ui, as far as i know, yeah

jade yarrow
#

looks like. but what is the path? <ip>:<port>/api ?

twin vine
#

well it depends

#

what is the ipv4 address of the container

#

the port should be 8080

#

and yes

marble perch
#

port will be 8888 with the docker config in use.

#

your pasted logs say that it's failing to start because it can't communicate with the radio

twin vine
#

what image has it got on it?

marble perch
#

which is weird, since earlier commands worked

jade yarrow
#

openthread/otbr latest c7dfb43b22c4 26 hours ago 932MB <-- latest

#

Could not open path /api: boost::filesystem::canonical: No such file or directory: &quot;/usr/share/otbr-web/frontend/api&quot;

twin vine
#

what thread dongle is it?

marble perch
#

@twin vine read the backscroll - it's a conbee III

twin vine
#

ah righitio

#

you read this @jade yarrow ? you can follow most of it up untill the HA part

#

you should beable to set most of the config via the docker container

marble perch
#

it looks like that setup is mostly all done

#

sometimes the otbr api is right on the top-level of the http, you can try accessing /get_properties to see if you get an api response

jade yarrow
#

{"error":13,"result":"failed"}

marble perch
#

ok, then your api url for home assistant will have no path on the end, just /

#

(that api end point would have returned the thread network configuration if a thread network was set up/running; an error response is expected since you haven't set a thread network up yet)

#

i'm kinda curious - are there any thread border router implementations out there which actually support dhcpv6 prefix delegation?

vapid shell
#

As in getting a global ipv6 /64 from the infrastructure network router and then giving thread devices a public address?

#

We’ve seen Apple border routers do it

marble perch
#

yeah (tho in theory it should also work for ULA addresses in addition to globally routable addresses).

jade yarrow
#

okay i try some stuff, and now my otbr is online, its detected by threads plugin but i cannot find it via otbr extention. Always "Failed to connect". But my logs looks like this: https://dpaste.org/HGQEp

marble perch
#

those logs all look fine, so that implies there's some sort of network routing issue between home assistant and otbr

jade yarrow
marble perch
#

in other words, your issue is probably that the stuff running in the home assistant docker container isn't able to connect to the ip/port of the otbr docker container.

#

which... is a part of the reason that people keep recommending that you run HAOS. The networking setup is done properly there for you.

jade yarrow
#

i dont think so. With the threads extention i find this router, but i cant add a pref network: https://ibb.co/2KxSHJW

#

all docker container are in host mode .. then it works .. and i rename my wifi device, because the name wasnt wlan0

marble perch
#

well, you can't add a preferred network if you don't have any networks

#

unclear how exactly to do that, seems like the assumption is that it's done automatically - but that might be something the haos add-on does

#

you might need to use the otbr web ui to manually create the initial thread network

#

(or the ot-ctl command line tool, equivalently)

twin vine
#

@jade yarrow what host system is the docker container on?

#

Some NAS?

jade yarrow
#

nope, ubuntu 22.04

twin vine
#

Hmm

#

What kernel versions that?

jade yarrow
#

5.15.0-105-generic

marble perch
#

that's an lts release, so kernel version varies depending on which point release it was installed from :/

twin vine
#

I know Stefan sent a update to fix a massive issue with thread unreliability, but I can’t remember what version it made it to

marble perch
#

but 5.15 is the newest supported right now. It should get 6.5 soon as an optional update via the "hwe" kernel package.

vapid shell
#

I don’t think any of the thread patches are upstream, no one really took an interest there

#

Usually with diy setups it’s the sysctl step that hasn’t been done correctly (or at all)

#

But that’s in the README that was already pointed to

#

But if matter, otbr and ha container are all on the same host then it’s usually something not being on the host network

marble perch
#

yeah, taking a look at the logs and screenshot provided, it does seem like ha and otbr are talking to each other, but that otbr doesn't have a thread network set up yet.

jade yarrow
marble perch
#

credentials import is only for if you have a thread network from a different vendor that you would like to join

#

right now you simply have no thread network at all. since you set up things manually, one was not automatically created for you.

#

(according to the output of /get_properties that you posted)

#

it looks like the home assistant ui doesn't provide any help for this - it seems like the assumption is that it would be used with the otbr add-on which does some setup for you.

jade yarrow
#

but why i see another network? in the webui i can change the name .. i see other thread devices

vapid shell
#

It’s the OTBR integration that does the setup and import, not the addon. You can point it at another OTBR with the api enabled

#

But sometimes the addon has patches not in the upstream container that impact the api

marble perch
#

hmm. so removing the otbr integration and re-adding it might be worth trying then, to get it to retry the network creation?

vapid shell
#

If there’s no preferred network on the Ha side, yes

#

Otherwise get the TLV hex out of the OTBR cli and add that manually

jade yarrow
#

now i got: {"error":0,"result":{"IPv6:LinkLocalAddress":"fe80:0:0:0:8a6:48be:362:c1f5","IPv6:LocalAddress":"fd11:22:0:0:e53d:1d14:5013:8aef","IPv6:MeshLocalAddress":"fdf1:b824:4a1e:6ebb:bacb:430a:5afd:a0fd","IPv6:MeshLocalPrefix":"fdf1:b824:4a1e:6ebb:","Network:Name":"ha-thread-1234","Network:PANID":"0x1234","Network:PartitionID":"1678677924","Network:XPANID":"1111111122222222","OpenThread:Version":"OPENTHREAD/9681690; POSIX; Apr 23 2024 13:08:30","OpenThread:Version API":"407","RCP:Channel":"15","RCP:EUI64":"00212effff0e1910","RCP:State":"leader","RCP:TxPower":"0 dBm","RCP:Version":"SL-OPENTHREAD/2.3.2.0_GitHub-e6df00dd6; EFR32; Feb 1 2024 16:02:16","WPAN service":"associated"}}

marble perch
#

ok, that looks better. now it is actually set up with a thread network created by home assistant (you can tell from the name starting with ha-)

jade yarrow
#

ha-thread-1234

marble perch
#

if you go into to home assistant thread integration configuration, i'd expect that should already be your preferred network. it should now also have a little info icon beside it which shows network credentials when clicked, too.

jade yarrow
#

no icon 😦

marble perch
#

gotta say tho, those values look kinda weird; i thought ha generated a random panid rather than 0x1234 (and similarly for the extended pan id)

#

fwiw, i'm running openthread border router on a separate hardware device (so no docker network shenanigans), and set up the thread network via the otbr cli before setting up the ha side of things.

jade yarrow
#

Do you have the same version "2024.4.4" of ha? Its looks similar, but i dont get this icon. Else i upgrade to an older version

marble perch
#

not having that icon … probably means that something's gone wrong with the api communication? like, home assistant isn't able to retrieve the network information by talking to the otbr api.

#

and yes, i'm running 2024.4.4.

tired juniper
crude willow
tired juniper
crude willow
tired juniper
crude willow
#

UK does not deliver it

twin vine
#

hard part about the blinds, you really only see blind vendors have them, you cant just buy them off the shelf at attach your own stuff to them

tired juniper
#

Yea can't find any wooden slat smart blind in uk that will work local with HA

crude willow
limber sonnet
#

I have a Sonoff Dongle E flashed with SiLab's 4.3.1 firmware setup only for Thread. I have the OpenThread Border Router installed, confirmed the right dongle is selected. OTBR log seems to say everything is ok. There is an OTBR integration but there is nothing in it, just says "1 Entry". There is a Thread integration and hitting Configure it shows that homeassistant.local is the preferred network. It also shows 2 additional amazon echo routers. I have a thread/matter nanoleaf essentials bulb which I am unable to add as it tells me I need an OTBR... I don't know what else to try. Suggestions?

#

Those are the OTBR logs. There are some failures related to [netif].

#

IPv6 is enableb on my network (Unifi gear)

remote spade
limber sonnet
#

When I first powered the bulb my phone immediately asked me if I wanted to add it to Smartthings. I clicked no. When I try to add it as a Matter device, it says "Connecting to device" and then tells me that my device needs a border router... which I already have. IS that what you are seeing too?

remote spade
#

No that's not what I'm seeing. In the Nanoleaf app, it's just defaulting to the Apple network, and won't let me choose the HA Thread network ... even though it sees the network in the app.

limber sonnet
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oops, I have not even tried to install the app. Thought it was not necessary... trying now

remote spade
#

And even if I bypass the Nanoleaf app, HA still puts it in the Apple Thread network, despite the HA Thread network being the preferred.

limber sonnet
#

maybe it is one or the other and a bulb reset is needed ?

remote spade
#

Yeah that's what I thought, but I did a bulb reset 3 times already

#

My ONLY thought is that because I'm on an iOS device, it's forcing it to use Apple's Thread network. In a lot of the instructions I'm reading, it's saying you might need to set it up through an Android device.

limber sonnet
#

One reason why I avoid Apple 😉

remote spade
#

Haha

#

Might not be the same problem as yours then ...

limber sonnet
#

The nanoleaf app did not ask me what network to join, and there are 3 border routers in my house (2 echo, 1 HA)

remote spade
limber sonnet
#

not sure yet, it is updating firmware

remote spade
#

got it

limber sonnet
#

says "No Network" under thread

remote spade
#

weird then

#

though Nanoleaf can take a bit to recognize thread. If you click No Network, is there an option to select a Thread network

#

also check Settings > Thread Network in the Nanoleaf app

limber sonnet
#

no, it twirls a bit then nothing

#

i will go try right next to the stick

remote spade
#

i am finding a lot of people saying that Nanoleaf app basically holds on to existing Thread credentials, even with a reset. So that might be why I'm personally having trouble.

limber sonnet
#

I just found that under "More" I have "Thread Network" and there it shows 2 networks (HA + Amazon). It says that there is one device not using Thread and when I press Upgrade it says it will take a few minutes.

#

In that screen, does it give you the option to remove it from the one already selcted?

remote spade
#

Nope

#

My HA network on there only shows the name, and extended PAN ID, too. Whereas the Apple network shows everything.

#

So I don't think its recognizing the HA network correctly

limber sonnet
#

Both the HA and Amazon networks just have network name and pan id

#

Hmmm, I had AdGuard (DNS based filter for ads) on my phone, and as soon as I turned it off, the nanoleaf app now finds 3 echos (might just be a coincidence). There are at least a dozen around the house but I don't know which ones have a br inside.

remote spade
#

Weird

marble perch
#

they don't provide any way to import credentials from a third party network

#

nanoleaf's app supports using a private protocol to reconfigure the thread network on their devices, but i'm not sure there's any way to tell it the credentials to the ha network :(

#

iirc they implemented that support mainly to let you join devices to a nanoleaf thread network - several of their products are thread border routers - on an iphone.

limber sonnet
remote spade
#

Thanks for confirming ... guess I'll use the SkyConnect to just work with the Apple Border Routers then for now. Unless you have any other ideas, @marble perch ?

marble perch
#

are you planning to keep using the apple devices that are border routers?

remote spade
#

yes

marble perch
#

unless you have a network coverage issue, i wouldn't bother with the skyconnect at all.

#

no point, all the home assistant stuff works fine with external thread border routers.

remote spade
marble perch
#

if you do end up with some devices with an unreliable connection which are close to your home assistant box, adding the skyconnect to the existing thread network would be a possible way to fix that.

remote spade
#

makes sense. So still worth holding on to for the future.

marble perch
#

could also use it to run some zigbee devices while you're waiting for the quality and variety of matter over thread devices to improve :)

remote spade
marble perch
#

unlike thread border routers, which are more or less interchangeable (they just pass traffic unmodified between an external controller and devices), connecting zigbee devices directly to ha (via z2m or zha) does often provide more control than an external hub.

limber sonnet
#

@marble perch any idea why adding a thread/matter bulb results in HA telling me that the device requires a thread border router? I have a stick dedicated to thread and the nanoleaf bulb app sees the network, along with an amazon one, however I am unable to add it to thread using either app.

marble perch
#

using an android phone?

limber sonnet
#

yes

marble perch
#

hmm. something you can try: in the home assistant companion app, go to settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then Sync Thread credentials. If it says anything other than "Home Assistant and this device use the same network", then try a few more times until it does.

limber sonnet
#

Says added network from home assistant to this device

marble perch
#

alright, so your credentials were out of sync. try again and confirm it says "use the same network"

limber sonnet
#

actually it is now adding the bulb!

#

it is at checking network connectivity

#

I would have never found that setting so deep....