thread-archived

[vapid shell]

Without that program there is no border router

[winged sapphire]

So the firmware it flashes is only meant to be the hardware controller for that software, like it only enables the thread radio controls on the skyconnect device or something

[vapid shell]

Basically

Some of these chips you can turn them into Bluetooth dongles with the right firmware

(But not at the same time as thread)

[verbal gale]

I just gotta ask, is there anyone here who has gotten OG (meaning HomeKit Thread, not Matter thread) Nanoleaf Essential bulbs to stop unpairing randomly? They are going unavailable nonstop for me and I am losing faith in thread

[quiet stirrup]

What firmware are they on?

[verbal gale]

1.6.49
I'm tempted to start messing with IGMP or the IPV6 settings on my router, but I KNOW that these bulbs built a successful thread network when they communicated just through HomeKit, so I'm unsure why HomeAssistant would cause problems!

[vapid shell]

Remind me - are you using just iOS border routers?

And do you have more than one?

[vapid shell]

(Under the strict OSI model, the Linux routing stack doesn’t know which is strictly the best border router to use. So it can send packets to a BR that is essentially a black hole mesh wise. This is why we can sometimes “fix” a mesh by turning border routers off. I’ve long suspected Apple could use a few tricks to cheat here, as they have full control over their stack and a big team of engineers. I described one trick vaguely here the other day. But for homekit it’s even easier because they only need to improve udp delivery. So they could bypass the unix socket layer and just write raw udp packets themselves, where they control the “Ethernet frame” (which has the destination MAC address set to a BR) and hence get to pick the optimal BR per accessory - this would give them a massive advantage over anyone just relying on standard packet routing. Such a routing bypass would mean they’d also be able to prefer their own routers and un-prefer routers they hadn’t verified like SkyConnect. I’m not saying any of this happens. But such a solution has properties that would probably be very useful for reliability and performance)

Most of the benefit of that should be available just with TREL of course

So iOS 17 should close the gap for us if poor BR selection is the root cause of your particular issue.

They could still have an advantage if their stack allows their routing policy to prefer TREL routers over non-TREL routers. Or they are able to feed errors (packets not getting acked) into their routing decisions (they could auto learn that a BR has crashed etc).

[vapid shell]

I think larger meshes can help (more full thread devices) - vaguely remember og nanoleaf kind of not doing great if it’s a router.

[vapid shell]

Also im pretty sure there is a bug in our code! Just whenever i look into why my stuff is offline it’s because the Br has done something weird (changing wifi networks by itself) or the mesh has collapsed. Usually for me fixing the mesh lets HA recover just fine.

[verbal gale]

I’m 7 BRs. 2 Nanoleaf Shapes, 4 HomePod Minis, and one Apple TV 4K

[verbal gale]

How do you fix the mesh? Power. Cycling devices that have become unavailable?

[vapid shell]

Sometimes, sometimes the BRs

[vapid shell]

So are all of the HomePods and Apple TV running iOS 17?

Can you stop the shapes being BRs?

[spice imp]

There is a problem with SRP servers. Its not in the spec from what i know what happens if there are multiple present

so there might be some undefined behaviour there too with that many different border routers.

[verbal gale]

The HomePods were updated, I'm doing the ATVs now.

[verbal gale]

That I actually don't know... I haven't seen an option in the Nanoleaf app.

[verbal gale]

I know some of these words...

[vapid shell]

You might have to factory reset them

[verbal gale]

I believe I have during this whole process, and I wasn't given the option to turn on or off BR functionality... Hopefully iOS 17 is the silver bullet needed. It feels like the ATV 4K being ethernetted in to the network should provide pretty responsive Thread use

[vapid shell]

Pre iOS 17 it could have easily been a hindrance

[vapid shell]

So when you said you had shapes brs I assumed you meant you had configured them to be part of the Apple network. If you haven’t configured it, it’s like saying you have 7 BRs but 2 are still in the box unused. 🤪😂

If they have the latest firmware then you would see them in the nanoleaf app under the thread network view

And there would be a button to confirm adding them to the my home thread network

If there’s no button, and you can see a square for all your HomePods and tv, and the nanoleafs are all there just like the HomePods we have a problem

[verbal gale]

Oh okay! No they all show under the same Thread network

[vapid shell]

A proper factory reset should sort it out (it did when mine ended up on the wrong wifi network)

Failing that leave them unplugged a bit

[vapid shell]

(To be clear, and this is really hard to explain when a toddler is jumping up and down on a spinny chair and you are on a phone, any Brs you have that aren’t apple and aren’t running iOS 17 won’t have trel. Trel allows the Brs to mesh over thread OR WiFi, so if HA sends a packet to a Br that can’t see a device over thread, and for some reason can’t see another br over thread (thick walls? Interference? Mansion?) it can fallback to routing over wifi to a br that can see your device. )

[wary mountain]

Is there a way on HA to just see all the existing thread networks? Nanoleaf is picking up a network that I don't believe exists.

[vapid shell]

Sort of

If you find the thread integration in ha and “configure” it, it will show you all the networks it can see

But it only shows the ones visible by zeroconf, there are plenty of configuration mistakes that can mean it is incorrect or misleading

[wary mountain]

Just the one I expect there. Nanoleaf originally shows that one until I try to provision Thread. Then it asks for permission for my local network, and then an additional (older?) network shows up.

I'm kind of wondering if that old network is being held on my google home hub or something.

[vapid shell]

Are you on android then?

[wary mountain]

Android, yeah.

I'm bringing all the bulbs closer to the router to see if I can get them onto the thread network again (which I've done before).

Last time I factory reset each of the bulbs.

[vapid shell]

I think we have had cases where you have to nuke google play services to make it forget it’s old network

[wary mountain]

Maybe it was just a distance issue. I have two of the bulbs on Thread now, one in the Nanoleaf app, and one not.

Ahh, that's interesting.

[vapid shell]

But it nukes google pay too so bleh

[wary mountain]

And suddenly the distance issue makes sense!

Because there shouldn't be distance issues, BUT

If it prefers the closer/stronger Thread network then

The proximity to the google home hub vs the SkyConnect might be what's making the difference.

[vapid shell]

Well

There should only be one network

If the Ha thread view is showing multiple network names that is indeed your problem

[wary mountain]

HA thread view only shows the one. It's only on the nanoleaf app that I ever see the other.

But, you know, I can never get the bulbs to work when they're closer to the hub than the skyconnect.

[vapid shell]

But do all of your Brs show up under one network

[wary mountain]

Huh, can't add pictures here?

http://serinus.us/screenshots/thumbnail.jpg

[vapid shell]

I do have a theory that the SkyConnect essentially makes your multi-br home a single-br home, which would fit with your experience, but as ever there are a gazillion other things to rule out first 🙂

What does the Ha viewer see

[wary mountain]

From the nanoleaf app, only after allowing permission for local devices. The grayed out one is old, the green "External Border Routers" one is the SkyConnect and correct.

[vapid shell]

So that network only has one border router and your other routers would indeed not help

But need to see your HA thread page to confirm

[wary mountain]

http://serinus.us/screenshots/firefox_1b16335.png

HA only sees one. Nanoleaf phone app is the only thing that sees two.

[vapid shell]

Yeah

So you only have one BR

[wary mountain]

I'm thinking it's the google hub holding onto the old one, and HA can't see it.

[vapid shell]

The google home hub is doing jack shot right now

[wary mountain]

I can pretty easily do a factory reset on the hub.

[vapid shell]

It’s not serving any thread networks at all

[wary mountain]

Just to make sure, and then see if nanoleaf app still sees it.

Huh, you think so?

Let me try the experiment and I'll let you know.

[vapid shell]

So that thread integration uses mdns to search for _meshcop records. Every Br that’s currently a br will have a meshcop record

[wary mountain]

This is interesting http://serinus.us/screenshots/nanoleaf-app-2023-09-07.png

[vapid shell]

So either it’s no acting as a br or it’s on a different vlan

[wary mountain]

Huh, okay.

uh... wrong screenshot

There, updated if you ctrl+refresh

[vapid shell]

So I would guess that’s a bug in the nanoleaf app or a ghost zeroconf record that’ll timeout after a while but I would get an mdns/zeroconf app for your phone. Look at the meshcop records. It should match what HA sees. If it does this is nanoleaf / android being screwy

[wary mountain]

The "provision preferred thread credentials" button in homekit device integration is a godsend.

Oh, you think the old network record might be on my phone? I factory reset the nanoleaf app and all the bulbs since that network existed.

[wary mountain]

I had to catch up a little here. Used https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mdns_discovery.app to see one "meshcop" network on the phone.

So maybe it's Nanoleaf storing shit in the cloud.

[verbal gale]

Can you check the dm I sent with a screenshot to clarify?

[wary mountain]

I might have my own shit worked out enough to fucntion, Jc2k. Just trying to find the root cause of my issues and make the whole thing smoother for others (and myself in the future).

[vapid shell]

There are 2 seperate problems here. I think the stale records is a distraction. Your bulb and skyconnect are on the same network. But your google hub is showing no signs of serving any thread network.

What’s the exact model of the google device?

[wary mountain]

Let me double check the model on my google hub, yeah

I was just typing that.

Yeah, all the bulbs are now working through Thread and Skyconnect and Home Assistant through the Homekit Integreation.

Okay, it's a Nest Hub 1st gen.

The following Google devices can act as a Thread border router with Google Home:

Displays: Nest Hub (2nd gen), Nest Hub Max
Wi-Fi routers: Nest Wifi Pro (Wi-Fi 6E)

[vapid shell]

Well that explains that then 🙂

[wary mountain]

For future reference, nanoleaf essentials bulbs seem to work with Skyconnect, HA Homekit Integration, and you can pair the bulbs directly with Homekit Integration. No nanoleaf app needed, but it shouldn't interfere if you add them to to nanoleaf app afterwards.

The key thing for me was pairing through HA, and hitting the "Nanoleaf A19 1ZZX Provision Preferred Thread Credentials" button under the device info. Make sure the "Diagnostic" section of HA Device Info shows a good Thread Status.

Thread Status: Router

I still don't know where that extra thread network is coming from, but if I don't use the Nanoleaf app to try to provision them to Thread, then it doesn't matter.

Bringing the bulbs closer to the SkyConnect may have been helpful for putting them on the Thread network, but now they work spread out where I intended them.

[vapid shell]

It’s critical that you don’t turn them off at the wall - that they are routers mean other bulbs are depending on them to reach the SkyConnect

The provision process is over Bluetooth so the bulbs have to be within a few metres of Ha or another Bluetooth proxy to provision

[still quiver]

Interesting. You saying that ESPHome BTProxies can participate in thread device provisions/commissions/inclusions?

[vapid shell]

For HomeKit yes

(Homekit Accessory Protocol)

In HAP you pair first over Bluetooth

It’s a completely functional homekit ble connection

Then you write to a thread characteristic over the existing ble connection

With a TLV of the thread dataset

[still quiver]

Nice. Did not know that.

[vapid shell]

Amusingly a different TLV

Different endianness and different keys

And then device joins the mesh and homekit controller reconnects via thread

Homekit over Ble works quite well with proxies. It was one of the launch integrations for has new Bluetooth stack and one of the test cases for the proxies.

And like I said the other day, my eve thermos are back using the Bluetooth proxies instead of thread for now 😂

[dim pine]

I keep having to restart the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol add-on on my Home Assistant Yellow box, because the entire Thread network keeps going offline until I do. Any known issues or fixes?
https://dpaste.org/cAVYt

[still quiver]

What is your thread border router network? Just ha?

[warm pewter]

Not sure if this is the right spot to ask about Skyconnect. I am running HA in a VM hosted on Unraid. I also have an Aeotec 7 zwave stick. It appears when both are plugged in. Only the Aeotec stick works. Both show up as the same name under USB devices to pass through the VM!
https://reddit.com/r/homeassistant/s/n6Y0EXJsCB

[dim pine]

Yeah the HA:Y is the border router

[still quiver]

So you only have the one border router? Yeah, that could be the issue. You may need more routers.

[dim pine]

I would have doubts. System was working perfectly for MONTHS in the exact same config. Wish I knew what update screwed it

And now every few days (or sometimes daily) it just loses complete Thread connection

[half bluff]

Just wanted to say that I experience similar issues so you’re not alone. The update definitely did something.

[dim pine]

How are you coping? Just restarting the service like I am?

[half bluff]

Just unplugged skyconnect and use Apple until they fix it.

[vapid shell]

Now Apple has TREL that’s good for multiple reasons

[dim pine]

Oh man 😦

[still quiver]

Yesterday I had an interesting experience with one of my nanoleaf A19 bulbs. For some odd reason it just became unavailable for several hours in home assistant. This is on top of the regular disconnects and reconnects. Typically what I do is either reload the matter integration and or power cycle the light bulb. However none of these worked and it's still registered as offline. When I opened the nanoleaf app it was the only device that was on Bluetooth, while everything else was on thread. This has never happened before so I was about to reset the bulb and re-pair it however before I did that, I power cycled my thread border routers that are nearest to the device which are Google Nest hubs and the light came back online on thread again. Kinda weird.

[tiny carbon]

Same except its still like that

[glacial sage]

I understand upgrading SkyConnect firmware to multi-protocol only works directly in HAOS.

But can I check whether the following might work for someone brave and with container installation?

1. backup Zigbee network,
2. upgrade SkyConnect firmware outside of HA (with web tool)
3. Restore Zigbee network onto SkyConnect with new firmware

[sick swan]

Multiprotocol support needs the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol add-on, which isn't available for container installations. Afaik there is no pure/container only version of the things in the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol add-on.

Honestly, if you have a Container only installation, I think I would skip all the Multiprotocol complexity and just get two SkyConnects, one for Zigbee, one for Thread. Added benefit is that you can use separate 802.15.4 channels for the two networks 🎉

[glacial sage]

Thank you. I didn't realize that about Silicon Labs Multi-protocol add-on. I suppose getting another sonoff-e dongle is an option. Or if I have to buy something anyway, maybe an apple TV or Echo 4th gen for thread border router.

[main lily]

Hi guys! I just setup HASS and had a quick question

https://postimg.cc/V57LHYqv
This is a picture of the thread entry in Integrations

Does this mean that the Homepod's border router is already ready to use or does more configuration need to be done?

[vapid shell]

it depends 😄

it is already to use

if you are using Matter and using iOS companion app to set up your devices

(and you are usinng HAOS AND you having to VLANs or other networking stuff that breaks matter)

you won't be able to use things in HA that depend on having a preferred network. at the moment that would only be using an android device to setup your devices onto a homepod (not really a big issue) or using HomeKit over Thread accessories (pre-Matter thread capable stuff) the "easy" way (but there is a process in the docs that will get them working regardless)

right now there isn't an easy way to make your homepod's network the preferred network. you can do it if you have a Nanoleaf border router, but they don't have TREL.. now homepods support it ideally you'd only be adding other TREL capable border routers to your network.

[main lily]

What if im not?

[vapid shell]

what are you doing?

[main lily]

I’m probably going to use the android companion app

Since I’ve had some setup issues with iOS and my iPhone is on 16.1.2 meaning my Home isn’t in the new architecture

[vapid shell]

basically you can't do that right now

theres no official way that works and is implemented by the iOS companion app to get the private key for the homepod thread network

if there was you'd be able to sync that network to HA, and then the Android companion app could sync it into the google ecosystem and you'd be able to commission devices

there are funky things you can do like use a Nanoleaf border router with it, the Nanoleaf app can provision it onto the Apple network and then read the secret key back out. then there is a python script floating around that can encode the values into a TLV string which you can use to add it to Home Assistant

but the Nanoleaf border routers don't have TREL like HomePod minis, so you'd in effect be reducing your network's stability

another way is to implement your own ESP32 Matter device and provision that via iOS, and have it print the thread network details.

i would try ios 16.1.2 first

your phone isn't involved after the initial provision

[worldly river]

Hey, did you ever find a solution on this one? I'm getting the same error myself.

[mighty heath]

I think it was mentioned last time here #devs_matter-archived message

Not sure if he was referring to the thread network sdk @restive narwhal

[ionic plaza]

just ran the article: https://en.pingwest.com/a/12202

[dim pine]

Cross my fingers, but I haven't needed to restart the add-on since updating to HA Core 2023.9.2, despite there not being an update for the add-on.

[half bluff]

Try turning multiple on and off like 3 times in a row and see if that kills it :X

[dim pine]

Like turning bulbs on and off normally? The entire HAY? wym?

[half bluff]

In HA like your light group

Toggle the Button on and off

If can do multiple at same time try that see if it disconnects

[dim pine]

Gotcha. I've never had just using the lights cause the entire thread network to crap itself. Just randomly after a period of time. I'll give it a go

[half bluff]

Oh my bad I thought you were talking about Nanoleaf bulbs, not the HA thread meshing with apple border routers.

If it is not breaking thats nice! Ill give mine another try and see

[dim pine]

Kinda both and neither. My ONLY wireless IoT spec I'm using is Thread (no Z-Wave or Zigbee). The majority of my devices are Nanoleaf A19's (all but one are Matter), with a couple smart outlets.

The only border router I have is the HA Yellow. I don't have any Apple products. My issue is that randomly, for seemingly no reason, the entire Thread netwoirk goes down. The logs for the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol add-on seem to suggest it's in some sort of loop, and I have to restart the add-on to get my Thread network back up.

[dim pine]

Slight delay bc the Nanoleaf app is screaming at me about updates to the lights' firmware, so I'm doing that first

[dim pine]

I realize that your issue was different, but I spammed the light group for all my lights, and all of them were fine.

[arctic shore]

Hi there, I am venturing in to Thread and I just get errors.. I tried reset and it goes wonky.. 😛

I get the error 'Failed to configure the border router' - Unknown Error

I am using Silabs Miltiprotocol /OTBR and all the nice things -

[digital hare]

Hey guys, I have a Home assistant sky connect, so I figured i´d try my luck and buy some eve energy's.

When i turn the device on, I get the popup on my phone as expected, and go through the onboarding flow. however, when I get to the "checking network connectivity" step, all progress seizes and i end in the can´t reach device step. Any idea on debugging this? I've already enabled debugging on the OTBR and Thead integrations, but am seeing nothing out of the ordinary in the logs

[arctic shore]

I get this in the error logs

Default: mDNSCoreReceiveResponse: Unexpected conflict discarding 14 E.5.8.3.4.2.E.F.F.F.3.0.E.0.0.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.8.E.F.ip6.arpa. PTR Khadas.local.
otbr-agent[174912]: 00:00:51.164 [C] Platform------: CPC init failed. Ensure radio-url argument has the form 'spinel+cpc://cpcd_0?iid=<1..3>'
otbr-agent[174912]: 00:00:51.165 [C] Platform------: Init() at cpc_interface.cpp:96: Failure
close cpc endpoint: Resource temporarily unavailable

then OTBR resets and starts fine again

[serene prawn]

@digital hare I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

[digital hare]

cont.

  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/asyncio/base_events.py", line 973, in _connect_sock
    await self.sock_connect(sock, address)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/asyncio/selector_events.py", line 628, in sock_connect
    return await fut
           ^^^^^^^^^
  File "/usr/local/lib/python3.11/asyncio/selector_events.py", line 668, in _sock_connect_cb
    raise OSError(err, f'Connect call failed {address}')
ConnectionRefusedError: [Errno 111] Connect call failed ('172.30.32.1', 9999)  

heh, manually setting the port in the silabs multiprotocol addon seems to have worked

[still quiver]

All my Nest Hubs/Maxs have now updated to Fuchsia 12 (the last 2 updated early this morning). 4 hrs in, there seems to be an improvement in the Nanoleaf con/discon issue. Time will tell to get a beter idea.

[spring bramble]

You can not yet use the SkyConnect for Thread based Matter devices. Well, you can but it is highly experimental and will only work in some conditions. We're working hard on getting that part ready.

especially multi protocol has stability issues

so better use the SkyConnect for Zigbee only or Thread only for now

Do you have any Google or Apple border routers perhaps ?

[digital hare]

I only have Thread devices, but don't see an option for thread-only fw.

[digital hare]

Im afraid not, I'm trying to not tie myself to parties like those 😄

[cursive creek]

https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/about-firmware-options/

[digital hare]

Either way i got it working by specifying the ports manually in the addon

[cursive creek]

You can also update the SkyConnect firmware here (needs Chrome or Edge).
https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/firmware-update/

[spring bramble]

Ah ok, In that case indeed flash the thread only firmware and setup HA(OS) as your border router. Make sure to use a (recent) Android phone to commission new matter devices.

[dim pine]

Hey man I think that update may have fixed it. I still haven't had to restart the add-on since this point: #thread-archived message

I also ensured that my Nanoleaf A19's are all updated

[half bluff]

So I added my Skyconnect in only thread mode and when it seems to take over as Border Router things seem pretty good. However, there is a tug of war between apple and skyconnect on who wants to be border router. When apple connects as border router, that is when I see the disconnects with my nanoleaf bulbs.

Well im not 100% sure whats being the border router. I am just looking at who is top on the list for the thread integration page

[vapid shell]

The 2 things are unrelated

The thread integration page is driven by mdns

The actual router used is driven by Linux route table, which is populated by icmp6 not mdns

In theory different devices can use different brs at the same time

And it’s possible to see replies coming from different brs to what you sent a command to

Because the sky connect manifests as a on link route not a via route it should always have priority (which also means it blocks trel on your network possibly making sending packets to the mesh less reliable)

[arctic shore]

Just for clarity as many conversations... Using Multiprotocol Zigbee+Thread, THREAD is non-working in the current state?

[autumn tulip]

I'm trying to setup my first Matter over Thread device (a Nanoleaf Essentials bulb), and it's telling my I need a thread border router despite everything appearing to be setup correctly. My HA Yellow is on the other end of my house, too far for pairing to work. It doens't have bluetooth. I am hoping to get this paired through one of my Eero routers whose network I have joined with the Yellow. I've turned my multiproro addon logging up to debug and can't spot any log lines related to the pairing attempt. Are there any keywords I can look for?

[inner torrent]

No it's works, it's just not as stable as using only one or the other

[arctic shore]

Thanks ... I cant get the Border router to stay alive when I click to form/join a network

[vernal herald]

How do I add Skyconnect as multipan? Do I use Zigbee firmware only get it working in home assistant then upgrade to multi? Right now home assistant won’t let me setup as it says it has multiple firmware installed and needs to be zigbee only.

[half bluff]

Honestly it’s been a headache trying to install firmware via HA. Just plug it into computer and install the firmware you want via the HA Skyconnect site, then plug it back in and run the addon.

Is the Skyconnect going to implement TREL ever?@vapid shell

[vernal herald]

Ha that’s the problem right now it errors out with a fix of saying it has the multipan software on it and needs setup as zigbee only. I deleted my whole zigbee network and have nothing right now till I can get this installed

[half bluff]

Hmm keep trying. Unplug replug. I think I had that error and then 1 time it magically connected to it

[vernal herald]

Okay I will try this weekend. When I did the add on for multipan it kept erroring out at connecting to secondary. I don’t know feel like I’m running in circles

Thank you for help so far…should I setup under zigbee only and then upgrade firmware? It’s not even recognized as Skyconnect anywhere I can see

[autumn tulip]

I m trying to setup my first Matter over

[vernal herald]

Okay have Skyconnect setup (though it doesn’t show Skyconnect anywhere which I am guessing is normal?). I have 8 bulbs connected via zigbee…it is on the zigbee only firmware…how would I go about doing the thread firmware now to connect my Nanoleaf stuff or should I just sit tight and see what happens? Also should I be running any add on? Silab firmware or multipan add on?

[arctic swan]

Definitely wait, I've tried thread/multipan with SkyConnect several times and it has only ever been a nightmare trying to set it up, resulting in hours of frustration and just reverting back to default firmware and using ZHA

[tiny carbon]

Same, it was a nightmare setting up but once I did, it worked fine

[vernal herald]

So leave it on Zigbee firmware or is the proper way to setup under zigbee then update to multi to play around? Also what’s the best way to update firmware thanks all

By the way everything has been great for last 16 hours on zigbee only all devices in and working

[dim pine]

Crap, nope, crashed again. Not sure what's going on with the Multiprotocol add-on
https://dpaste.org/D3mDD

[quiet stirrup]

are you running multiprotcol, or only thread?

[dim pine]

It's the HA Yellow, so I have to run the "Silicon Labs Multiprotocol" add-on by nature. I only have thread devices though.

[quiet stirrup]

do you? cant you just run the OBTR add-on?

[dim pine]

Afaik OBTR is an integration and not an add-on, and I thought it required it to run:

"The Open Thread Border Router integration allows calling an Open Thread Border Router’s REST API from Python and via WebSocket. The integration is automatically set up when the “Silicon Labs Multiprotocol” add-on is installed."

[quiet stirrup]

https://github.com/home-assistant/addons/tree/master/openthread_border_router

it is

[dim pine]

Weird, thank you. I tried to search it in the add-ons and it didn't come up. Lemme look again

[dim pine]

Apologies, I had to enable advanced mode for it to show up in the store. I'll have to take a day to switch over, and likely have to re-pair everything, I presume

[white void]

Is there some way to see a connectivity graph of what devices are connecting to what in a Thread network?

[vapid shell]

sort of but not really

if you are using OTBR (e.g. with a skyconnect) there is a unsupported barely working thing in the hidden web ui that might crash the OTBR and will be missing different devices every time you refresh it

its developers have indicated its not meant to be used by end users because of its status, and it might well be removed.

if you don't have that, no

maybe the Eve app?

but that only shows devices it knows about so it shows F all for me

[quiet stirrup]

Eve app is pretty good, for only eve devices.

cant even identify apple br's

[white void]

I am using OTBR with a HA Yellow so sounds like that fits the criteria @vapid shell - how do you access the undocumented hidden web ui?

[vapid shell]

you forgot buggy, unstable and crashy

(it's been many months since i've done it and i think its changed, but its in the settings for the OTBR addon. you need to expose a port thats not exposed by default)

(further caveat; its got no protection at all security wise if you do that :D)

[white void]

I'm using the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol addon not the OTBR. Tried setting the port for the web server but it didn't seem to create one.

[vernal herald]

can someone help me to make sure I am able to update the firmware? My device reads this Device
/dev/serial/by-id/usb-Silicon_Labs_CP2102N_USB_to_UART_Bridge_Controller_(TRUNCATED NUMBERS JUST IN CASE)-if00-port0 I am running the Silicon Labs Flasher and putting this url : in the Firmware URL: https://github.com/NabuCasa/silabs-firmware/blob/main/EmberZNet/NabuCasa_SkyConnect_EZSP_v7.1.1.0_ncp-uart-hw_115200.gbl and I get this error Error: '/root/firmware.gbl' does not appear to be a valid GBL image: ValidationError('Image is truncated: tag value is cut off')
[10:25:36] INFO: universal-silabs-flasher-up script exited with code 1

[grizzled lava]

Hi, I'm a bit new to Home Assistant and I'm not having much success to add my Eve Energy, I'm not sure what I'm trying it's actually possible, would appreciate any help. I have the Yellow and my Eve Energy has thread but it's not matter upgraded, can I actually add it to HA without any HomeKit hub? and how?

[vapid shell]

Yes

You need Bluetooth

If the eve energy is pre-matter then you can pair it to the yellow with a Bluetooth dongle and the homekit device integration.

Once it’s connected by Bluetooth you can upgrade it to thread in the ha ui

[grizzled lava]

thanks, so then it's not possible to connect it via Thread only? I think the plug has thread (not matter upgraded) 🤔

[near python]

Speaking of nanoleaf, does anyone know what PWM frequency their devices tend to use? They don't advertiser that important specification anywhere, as far as I can tell.

This might not be the right channel for that, though.

ah yeah, I'll move to #hardware-archived

[vapid shell]

I think you misunderstood me

With the old eve homekit stuff, you pair with “homekit over Bluetooth”, then there is an extra step to switch to “homekit over thread”. Home assistant can support eve energy with both. But you have to pair with Bluetooth first, you can’t go straight to thread,

Even if you had the matter upgrade, the initial setup is over Bluetooth. The difference between matter and homekit is that right now matter can (must) use the Bluetooth on your phone and homekit uses the Bluetooth radio in your yellow (if you add one).

[vapid shell]

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/homekit_controller/#adding-a-homekit-device-to-a-thread-network-via-home-assistant

[rotund palm]

Random question I haven't been able to find the answer to

I have a Nest Secure (the now-deprecated alarm) that's going to stop working soon. I know it uses some flavour of Thread internally, but I don't know if it's standards compliant or something funky. I also have a SkyConnect, so I can set a Thread router up inside HA. If I do so, can I repurpose any of the Nest components? I have a few door open sensors I could reuse elsewhere, rather than throwing them away.

[vapid shell]

So thread is like wifi. Even if you could get the sensors onto your thread network you’d still need the “application” on top of thread to actually speak to the devices.

HA currently speaks 2 protocols that are thread aware - matter and homekit.

I doubt it’s either of those

[rotund palm]

Got it, and yes, I agree. They predate Matter and obviously aren't going to be Homekit.

I guess if I were very keen I could start reverse engineering the protocol... I'm not terribly likely to go to those lengths though. The sensors aren't worth that much.

[half bluff]

I have noticed something lately. Whenever I add the skyconnect to my HA instance it really slows down the whole HA. Whenever I delete it, my HA is quicker. Is the skyconnect causing that much tax on the system?

I believe its happening when the Border Router changes to either apple or skyconnect.

[spring bramble]

Can you please have a look at cpu and memory usage ? From the whole system and the Thread/Multiprotocol add-on.
Using Thread only or multi protocol ?
For now I'd advice to use the SkyConnect for either Thread only or Zigbee only and leave multiprotocol alone for a while until we work out the last quirks and provide a solid way to give test feedback.

[half bluff]

I have it using thread only right now on OTBR firmware.

[spring bramble]

Great thanks. Please let me know if you see any strange/high numbers for cpu and/or memory

[half bluff]

I pulled it out because it was unstable and had mdns issues

The mdns would crash apparently

At least from matter logs

I’ll see if I can send you logs from it

[quiet stirrup]

Not seeing the same, and I’m on the beta (not that it’s directly relevant anyways), you running it within the Apple thread network, another one, or standalone?

[half bluff]

It’s with the Apple mesh

[quiet stirrup]

Hmm, as in slows down the HA system, in what way?

[half bluff]

I’m telling you guys it’s having battles between who is border router. It goes up and down in performance of HA when it either is trying or becomes the border router

Like if I click to setting or overview or HACS it takes a bit longer for everything to load

But then sometimes it’s just fast and instant

And I’ve got my HA on VM pumping 4 cores with 16gb ram on ssd

On proxmox

[quiet stirrup]

I got the exact same setup, I just have always used the OBTR add-on, I mean I’ll play around with it tommrow and see if the performance differs

But if the sky connect is getting allocated the “leader” it might make sense the increase in usage, but slowing the whole system down is odd

[toxic rune]

Hey there, "Zigbee and Thread share the same radio and must use the same channel. Change the channel of both networks by reconfiguring multiprotocol from the hardware menu." -- does anyone know where that "hardware menu" is? For some reason Thread and Zwave run on different channels - thread on 15 and zigbee on 25. Tried changing the channels to be the same channel but..... it asks for some menu I can't find anywhere.... Orange PI + sonoff zbdongle-e with updated firmware for thread+zigbee....
[3:45 PM]
Tried resetting the open thread router - same thing - no change in channels ...... "unknown error" ...
[3:48 PM]
Maybe raspberry Pi's don't have "system -> hadrware -> configure" .... ?

[fickle mantle]

Here is a thread on the subject that might be helpful...https://github.com/home-assistant/addons/issues/3124#issuecomment-1735018059

[glass granite]

Just wanna give a huge shoutout to J2ck (?) for the Bluetooth provisioning of Bluetooth Thread devices, works like a goddamn charm even with Bluetooth Proxy

[vapid shell]

Hi ! Glad to hear it! Just building on the shoulders of giants - would not be possible without all the work bdraco has done on the Bluetooth stack.

[grand echo]

#integrations-archived message

[vapid shell]

Did you upgrade them to matter?

AFAIK they can’t speak the original homekit protocol after the matter upgrade so this is very important to know

If you didnt upgrade them then you’ll need a Bluetooth dongle to connect them to your BR. You first pair by Bluetooth and then there is a button in the Ui to upgrade to thread.

If you did then check out #matter-archived. Right now, then only way to get that combo to work is with an Android device. You’ll need a google account. If it already decided to use google nests or similar then you won’t be able to force it to use your own br easily,

[grand echo]

No upgrade done (not possible because it doesn't recognise what ever HA is.)
But I will get myself a BT dongle then.
Thanks

[mellow night]

Will SkyConnect Thread radio work to connect Nanoleaf bulb or is the radio silent?

[vapid shell]

It can, but there are caveats. You need an Android phone to connect Nanoleaf Matter products to SkyConnect. If you have already used google border routers it can be hard to force it to use SkyConnect after that. You can’t use iOS at all yet.

If it’s a homekit over thread bulb, it should work in theory but your Ha will need Bluetooth

[mellow night]

So SkyConnect wouldn’t act as a border router?

My HA is basically a Pi4

[quiet stirrup]

It can, but atm only if you have a android phone, as j2ck said

What setup do you have atm?

[mellow night]

I’m a bit confused, why do I need an android phone? I use an iPhone.

I may be able to use my old Android. Can you explain why it’s needed

[vapid shell]

Right now HA uses APIs in your phone to provision matter devices

There was a delay implementing thread credential syncing in the Apple app because they wouldn’t grant us permission to use that api

And now there is no iOS development capacity to add it

As a consequence you can only use the Apple ecosystem for matter with ha if you use HomePods.

This will get fixed (and ha will support using commissioning without using apps) but that’s not yet

In the meantime the google version of this does support thread credential syncing

So can be used for matter commissioning onto a SkyConnect otbr

It needs google play services and a google account though.

This only applies to the Matter case

For HomeKit over thread, we instead need your HA instance to have a Bluetooth dongle.

Then HA pairs with homekit over Bluetooth. And there is a button in the dashboard to upgrade to thread.

[random garden]

For new Nanoleaf bulbs provisioned with HA Homekit (no Apple devices); if the 'Provision Thread Credentials' button is pressed, should the device also appear under the Thread devices list as well? Or will it remain under Homekit Devices?

[vapid shell]

It’s still a homekit device

Just HomeKit over thread instead of HomeKit over Bluetooth

[random garden]

ok, that makes sense. thanks.

semi-related note; should adding a Nanoleaf bulb via Matter over Thread have the same IPV6 requirements as HomeKit over Thread? I know there are different .udp records (.matterc vs .hap), but would it be correct in thinking that if Homekit bulbs and Matter bulbs should be able to co-exist?

[vapid shell]

Matter and homekit can co-exist on the same mesh

Well

It’s all very new

Some people find that nanoleaf can’t coexist with anything else without the mesh being wonky

Regardless of matter or homekit

But that’s not a ipv6 or mesh problem that’s just vendor bugs

[random garden]

Sure, can understand that.

All good; only asking as I'm having a few issues getting a new Matter over Thread Nanoleaf to connect to my HA when HomeKit over Thread bulbs work fine (for the most part - logs have been showing a myriad of errors but the automations and manual actions on the lights work). Basically playing whack-a-mole with troubleshooting (most recent issue is mDNS no longer wanting to work).

I'll jot up a forum thread with what I've tried and current setup to get a baseline of what I have, before I start pulling things apart and trying to rebuild. Just wanted to ensure that both types of bulbs can work together beforehand (I understand everything is still in flux so it might not be "reliable" but I'm a glutton for punishment so 🤷‍♂️ ). Thanks @vapid shell .

[vapid shell]

I think there have been a bunch of mdns related reports floating around

Some suggestion that it seems common on Unifi

But not exclusively on UniFi

[random garden]

lol, my entire network infrastructure is Unifi.. brilliant.

that said (in my case)

[vapid shell]

Unifi is.. problematic 🥶

[random garden]

Unifi isn't doing anything mDNS. That's been sent off to an RPI running a docker mdns relay.

and it has worked fine up until 12 hours ago

[vapid shell]

A bunch of my esp modules stopped connected to wifi after a unifi firmware update

[random garden]

interesting... I'm having that problem also.

[vapid shell]

I had to replace them

[random garden]

oh? not roll back firmware?

[vapid shell]

The older WROOM modules with the metal shields are solid

I didn’t know when it broke

[random garden]

ah

[vapid shell]

And I don’t want to run unpatched infrastructure

[random garden]

fair point

[vapid shell]

Anywya HomeKit has alllllways struggled on Unifi

Random settings seem to break it

For me it’s been fine

But some people have to turn igmp off for it to work

[random garden]

I made a lengthy post on HA about my struggles with getting it setup initially... so yeah, I recall. I didn't expect the MoT bulbs to behave similarly though - how naive I was).

[vapid shell]

And the lol bit is some people have to turn it on

It’s multicast stuff that’s the real issue

There was a lot of “innovation” around reducing the amount of WiFi traffic multicast causes

Where innovation is just per vendor bugs 😒

[random garden]

that's what I've seen also. the part I don't get is if multicast dies, you'd expect anything else on the network that runs multicast to also die, but it's only HA for me (Chromecasts and Sonos devices work just fine and I can see the mDNS traffic flowing for them).

[vapid shell]

Nah

Ha uses its own mdns (separately to matter)

So completely different code bases

One is pure python

[random garden]

ahh, of course

[vapid shell]

One is c++

Different vendors

The matter one is used in shipping commercial devices

[random garden]

I see

[vapid shell]

As ever with this stuff there are too many variables

[random garden]

yep, maaaaaany moving parts. what could possibly go wrong

[vapid shell]

Number of times I’ve “fixed” thread for someone by getting them to unplug an Apple TV 🤪

[random garden]

No Apple anything here 🙂 - couldn't pay me enough to use it.

[vapid shell]

Same for me with android 😅

[random garden]

haha, each to their own

[vapid shell]

Can’t use either without a cloud account so both can **** off really

[random garden]

mm, true.

[vapid shell]

(Well, I assume you can’t provision HomePods without one, I’ve never tried)

[wary mountain]

I'm currently here.

Unifi + Homekit Bulbs + Android Ecosystem + new Matter Bulbs. Homekit bulbs are working, Matter bulbs are not responding as soon as I put them outside. (The nearest Matter bulb is 3 feet and a wall/door from the in range Homekit bulb.)

I finally got all the Homekit bulbs working and was stupid enough to think Matter bulbs would just work.

I think if I install them all right next to the Skyconnect, they'll work. For a time.

[wary mountain]

I set them to red, white, and blue. I think it looks cool. I can't change it currently. My wife isn't happy about having a red light on our porch for some reason.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3T1c7GkzRQQ

[random garden]

You're getting further than I am then. I'm not even able to commission them as a new device. Logs keep throwing mDNS resolution timeout errors (tried adding via Google Home as well and it times out at 'checking network connectivity'). I have a feeling it's something in the Unifi space that's causing mDNS to just stop completely, as I managed to borrow an iPhone to check for mDNS discovery, and it errors immediately.

[wary mountain]

You have mDNS enabled in Unifi?

[random garden]

No. mDNS is being done by an RPI4 running the multicast-relay docker (Unifi mDNS has always been terrible, but since offloading it to the RPI docker it's been 100% reliable for Chromecast and Sonos gear I have around the house). I don't know whether the issue is my UDM Pro trying to communicate with the RPI for adding the Matter bulbs and it throwing a fit (probably a stretch) but as of right now only the Matter mDNS discovery is failing.

the same docker container was being run on my UDM Pro for a while, until Ubiquiti ruined docker deployments in v3 UbiOS

[wary mountain]

Huh. I'm running a rasppi for Pihole. I'm not too familiar with multicasting in general.

[random garden]

for context: https://hub.docker.com/r/scyto/multicast-relay

it basically ties into the VLANs I have and acts as a bridge

[random garden]

I run NextDNS (https://nextdns.io/) on the same RPI as the docker. AFAICT there's no mDNS restrictions from NextDNS, but who knows, could be playing a part.

[wary mountain]

I'm considering disabling spanning tree protocol.

mesh networks are particularly susceptible to broadcast storms because they by design connect to each other redundantly (c.f.: Sonos). Beyond that, it's really not possible to say, other than, perhaps you should keep (R)STP on.

Maybe it's preventing my mesh network from meshing.

[random garden]

Yeah, the only potential downside is if a Layer 2 device on your network enters a loop, there's nothing to stop it from crippling your network entirely.

but I can see the advantages of disabling it for mesh

[wary mountain]

No immediate success. I'll leave it off for now.

[random garden]

had a minor win; turns out NextDNS does have an mDNS discovery function on startup, but just found NextDNS wasn't actually running... forgot I had dnsmasq enabled on bootup on the RPI and forgot to disable the service on boot, so there was a port conflict. Now reconfiguring it and will retest after everything has rebooted.

[random garden]

well I'll be damned; finally managed to get the bulb commissioned successfully! that said, I'm not seeing it in HA under Matter, OTBR or Thread integrations. @wary mountain, where are you able to see your Thread bulbs? Or am I just missing something basic?

[wary mountain]

Commissioned through which app?

[random garden]

HA directly

via the Matter addon

well, integration*

[wary mountain]

Then it should show under Matter

[random garden]

... 🤦‍♂️ it didn't show under the HACS Addon, it shown under Matter (BETA) on the devices page (only place I didn't look).

lol, thanks for that

half tempted to now swap out the ~30 HAP Nanoleaf bulbs I have with Matter-specific ones, as HAP with the Nanoleafs has been slowly getting less responsive and logs are filling up with invalid requests/self-destruct/timeout errors.

[wary mountain]

HAP = Homekit?

[random garden]

yeah, sorry; Homekit Accessory Protocol

[wary mountain]

So ~$450 to fix that? heh

[random garden]

ehh, triple that where I am. 😦

[wary mountain]

I haven't done BR30s because mine are all in sets of six. It'd be a few grand to do them all, and clearly the tech isn't too reliable yet.

Plus I think a strategy of switches and bulbs is best. How many colored bulbs do you need?

[quiet stirrup]

sounds like where im from, they are like 40 aud a bulb 🙃

[random garden]

haha, yep, that'd be it.

[wary mountain]

Heh, and I was worried about someone stealing them off my front porch.

[random garden]

didn't replace them for the colours, more power efficiency. the lights in the house before were 15-24W per socket, non-dimmable (last owner really liked everything bright..). Nanoleafs are 9W max and we only use them at 20% max as its bright enough to see things, so call it 1.3W/light. That, and automations turn them off when needed etc, so it had a net positive effect for us anyway.

the colours are a bonus

[wary mountain]

You can do that with cheaper, dumb, dimmable LED bulbs and smart dimmer switches.

[quiet stirrup]

@random garden your from australia?

[random garden]

yup

[quiet stirrup]

makes sense, @wary mountain we dont have much in terms of that here

[random garden]

sure, but where's the fun in automating all the things and pulling your hair out for something that you could do old fashioned 🙃

[quiet stirrup]

smart dimmer switchs/lights is dominated by the shitty chinese brands that get sold by grid connect (using tuya) at bunnings

[wary mountain]

Oof. I've found the zwave stuff to be pretty good.

[random garden]

yeeeah... and Tuya is less than ideal. couple that with the fact Arlec/Grid Connect replaced their chips with non-easily-flashable chips at the end of the mass COVID outbreak.

[wary mountain]

My only tuya thing involves an app on an unused phone to allow the API through Home Assistant. I don't want Tuya on any device I trust. Maybe I'm paranoid.

[random garden]

not paranoid. Tuya is shite

[quiet stirrup]

yep, thing is, when you live in a big island far away from anywhere else, along with having strict electical codes, the market tends to be dominated by a few players, all of which are shit

[wary mountain]

What outlets do you guys use?

[quiet stirrup]

Type I? i dunno you gotta look it up, same as NZ and a few other countries

[random garden]

Type I*/ AS/NZS 3112

[wary mountain]

Wish you could link images here

[random garden]

Google is your friend

[wary mountain]

#hardware-archived ?

[quiet stirrup]

any country has that socket lmao, not what he was going on about

[random garden]

yeah, the lights are B22 bayonet or E27 Edison (the latter in that links case)

ZWave also has different Mhz operation frequencies per country

[wary mountain]

Damn, you really can't get zwave/matter outlets can you.

[quiet stirrup]

lmao no

we have eve, but that is $70 a plug 🙃

[random garden]

on discount* haha

[quiet stirrup]

jb normally do to be fair, but still crazy high

otherwise you are living the tuya/gridconnect/arlec life with the wifi plugs 🤢

[random garden]

or Belkin/Wemo :\

[wicked cave]

If you already have a well running Zigbee network is there any reason to migrate to Thread?

[vapid shell]

if your life is boring and you've run out of things to fix?

[wicked cave]

🤣 I'm only two months into HA .... my life won't be boring for a long time so I don't waste time and money on things with no ROI. My 26 Zigbee devices migrated from SmartThings are happy so I'm happy

[vapid shell]

unless there is a device you crave that only has thread or a coordinator outage is a real concern for you, i don't think you'd get anything out of it

[wicked cave]

Now looking a for a 100 watt equiv. dimable daylight Zigbee bulb. All my existing bulbs are Hue some 7+ years old and working fine but I'm open to less expensive but just as good alternatives

[wicked cave]

Coordinator outage? Implying thread supports multiple coordinators? My coordinator is baked into the Yellow and is on UPS . I'm now building battery backed dedicated routers for critical things like door sensors, water leak sensors etc that run on batteries

[vapid shell]

So with thread there are 2 things that replace coordinators

First of all the leader

That’s any mains powered router that wins the leader election. So could be a bulb or a switch outlet.

Then there are border routers.

They just forward packets between your infrastructure network and thread mesh

They use ipv6 route announcements so HA can “see” multiple routes to the mesh

So in theory if one died, it would use another pretty quickly

[wicked cave]

Soi if a bulb or wall switch wins the leader election and your power goes out all your thread devices including battery operated are off the air ?

[vapid shell]

Until something else wins the election there won’t be a leader

I don’t think that would be a full outage but it would certainly have an impact

[wicked cave]

Are there ways to force the leader for example the Zigbee device in the yellow which is on UPS?

[vapid shell]

I don’t think so

[wicked cave]

I really don't like the idea that dumb devices like switches become critical

[vapid shell]

Yeah. I think they think that the election should resolve your use case

But there are certainly cases where people have accidentally turned a bulb off at the wall and the mesh had reorganised itself 😂

[wicked cave]

Well I guess early adopters will light the way .

[vapid shell]

I haven’t studied the leadership election. It’s probably documented on the openthread if you are interested.

If I was doing it and had the thread must-self-heal constraint I’d have probably had some weight a device could advertise, “oh I’m a bulb, I’d probably make a crap leader, but if you only have 3 accessories I guess I could be sigh” vs “oh im a dedicated router pick me pick me”

There’s a leader per partition as well, forgot that bit

Oh yeah

TREL is interesting for you

Your border routers can mesh over their infrastructure links as well as thread

Which should pretty much eliminate partitions

[wicked cave]

I'm happy now and have a lot of on-point HA learning to do than speding any time on Thread. I was just curious if there were significant advantages other than improved standardization . I tend to stay off the bleeding edge because I cut my self often enough with the old dull tech. 🤣 Thanks for responding

[vapid shell]

So if device a can’t directly see device b, it could potentially go a -> br 1 -> (over wifi/ethernet) br2 -> b

And brs will use that capacity to reduce strain on the mesh (it had less capacity than Ethernet)

Yeah I’m in no rush to replace my prod zigbee setup

[wicked cave]

I plan on at least two dedicated routers based on Sonoff USB Dongle-E flashed with router firmware. I have one up and it meshed with all the other routers but none of the endpoint have become associated with it. I may need to shut down all the other routers and re-pair selected devices with specific dedicated routers. the learning goes on and on and on

[wary mountain]

Damn, my matter nanoleaf bulb that was working perfectly has forgotten itself.

Thinking range was an issue, I moved it next to the server, and it's still unavailable.

Oh, my whole Thread network is down.

[wary mountain]

2023-10-09 17:28:51 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR Timeout waiting for mDNS resolution.
2023-10-09 17:29:05 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR OperationalSessionSetup[1:0000000000000001]: operational discovery failed: src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout
2023-10-09 17:29:05 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller[126] WARNING Unable to subscribe to Node 1 as it is unavailable, will retry later in the background.
2023-10-09 17:29:36 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR Timeout waiting for mDNS resolution.
2023-10-09 17:29:50 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR OperationalSessionSetup[1:0000000000000003]: operational discovery failed: src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout

Probably Unifi related.

[quiet stirrup]

What is your settings for UniFi network?

[wary mountain]

Seems like the Skyconnect failed. Restarting the server got stuff back.

Got the last bulb working, moved it outside, and it's not responding yet.

2023-10-10 00:48:46 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR Timeout waiting for mDNS resolution.
2023-10-10 00:49:00 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR OperationalSessionSetup[1:0000000000000007]: operational discovery failed: src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout
2023-10-10 00:49:00 core-matter-server chip.DMG[126] ERROR Failed to establish CASE for re-subscription with error 'src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout'
2023-10-10 00:49:00 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 7][126] INFO Previous subscription failed with Error: 50, re-subscribing in 119161 ms...

5 of 6 bulbs currently responding, including one right next to it.

2023-10-10 00:51:40 core-matter-server PersistentStorage[126] INFO Committing...
2023-10-10 00:51:42 core-matter-server root[126] INFO Re-subscription succeeded!
2023-10-10 00:51:42 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 8][126] INFO Re-Subscription succeeded
2023-10-10 00:52:30 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR Timeout waiting for mDNS resolution.
2023-10-10 00:52:44 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR OperationalSessionSetup[1:0000000000000007]: operational discovery failed: src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout
2023-10-10 00:52:44 core-matter-server chip.DMG[126] ERROR Failed to establish CASE for re-subscription with error 'src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout'
2023-10-10 00:52:44 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 7][126] INFO Previous subscription failed with Error: 50, re-subscribing in 252817 ms...

Re-Subscription succeeded, and now we're all working.

And... it's dead again.

2023-10-10 00:54:42 core-matter-server chip.DMG[126] ERROR Subscription Liveness timeout with SubscriptionID = 0xcfcaaf71, Peer = 01:0000000000000008
2023-10-10 00:54:42 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 8][126] INFO Previous subscription failed with Error: 50, re-subscribing in 0 ms...
2023-10-10 00:54:43 core-matter-server chip.EM[126] ERROR Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:12837485 on exchange 29533r sendCount: 4 max retries: 4
2023-10-10 00:54:52 core-matter-server chip.EM[126] ERROR Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:238704497 on exchange 20937i sendCount: 4 max retries: 4
2023-10-10 00:54:55 core-matter-server chip.SC[126] ERROR CASESession timed out while waiting for a response from the peer. Current state was 4
2023-10-10 00:54:55 core-matter-server chip.DMG[126] ERROR Failed to establish CASE for re-subscription with error 'src/protocols/secure_channel/CASESession.cpp:485: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout'
2023-10-10 00:54:55 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 8][126] INFO Previous subscription failed with Error: 50, re-subscribing in 4139 ms...
2023-10-10 00:55:14 core-matter-server chip.EM[126] ERROR Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:238704498 on exchange 20938i sendCount: 4 max retries: 4
2023-10-10 00:55:16 core-matter-server chip.SC[126] ERROR CASESession timed out while waiting for a response from the peer. Current state was 4
2023-10-10 00:55:16 core-matter-server chip.DMG[126] ERROR Failed to establish CASE for re-subscription with error 'src/protocols/secure_channel/CASESession.cpp:485: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout'
2023-10-10 00:55:16 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 8][126] INFO Previous subscription failed with Error: 50, re-subscribing in 8462 ms..

At least I'm getting logs now.

And it killed the Skyconnect.

[random garden]

I'm also finding that when my lights on my tablets show unavailable, the logs show the Skyconnect has become unavailable (resource temporarily unavailable). A complete reboot of Unraid will not fix it; it requires a physical reseat of the Skyconnect to a different USB port (even if on the same controller) and then a complete reboot of Unraid, to relaunch the VM, to have Skyconnect visible.

aaaand I'm back to having mDNS issues again for adding new Matter bulbs (existing bulb I added yesterday still works, new ones just go nope) 🙃

[wary mountain]

Reboot and plug unplug of the skyconnect into the same port worked once.

[random garden]

how long does your Skyconnect last before it fails on average? I seem to get bouts of weeks at a time working, then failing half a dozen times a day out of the blue)

[wary mountain]

It lasted until about 60 seconds after I placed my furthest bulb.

[random garden]

I'm finding intermittent packet loss with the bulb I'm also trying to add (pinging the ULA address from HA terminal). Not sure if that would also be part of the problem (for you or me).

[vapid shell]

Sorry if I missed this in the backlog but are you both running multiprotocol firmware or just thread firmware?

[random garden]

sorry, only just seen this. Running Multiprotocol (have ~30 Zigbee devices, so need both).

[vapid shell]

I think that is known to be more unstable than pure thread. Which is more unstable than pure zigbee.

Sucks that you can’t switch

[random garden]

true, but we're in unstable territory as it is. if I could run both on two separate devices I would (I have a Sonoff Zigbee dongle that has been flashed with MultiPAN before I got the Skyconnect, however the size of the heatsink on the Sonoff unit prevents the only other USB port I have available).

[quick bronze]

You want to put them on a USB extension cable anyway

That moves them away from all the RF noise of the computer, and will improve stability and performance

#zigbee-archived has a pinned video demonstrating the problem

[random garden]

and that was the setup when I first bought the Skyconnect. I originally thought the first cable was defective, so went to place of purchase for another, same behaviour. After about 3 weeks of troubleshooting and 8 cables later, the Skyconnect was more unstable than it was when it's directly plugged into the motherboard.

[quick bronze]

That'd only happen if the computer can't provide enough power to the USB ports, and maybe if the cables are faulty

[random garden]

tested a different motherboard, CPU and PSU during the troubleshooting

[serene prawn]

@random garden When using Discord's Reply feature it defaults to pinging the person you reply to, which can get frustrating for the target. Use Shift + click on the Reply option, or click @ ON to @ OFF to stop this - on the right side of the compose bar.

You have to change this every time (thank the Discord devs for that).

[quick bronze]

Well... a very many people use USB extension cables... and they're recommended for a reason

Hell, my Zigbee stick(s) on a 2m cable

[random garden]

Yep, I understand that. I can't explain why it works better (usually) without one, but I'm not questioning it.

[quiet stirrup]

You can get some these days, (not sky connect) that have a separate antenna

The Sonoff Zigbee 3.0 USB Dongle Plus V2 looks sick

[random garden]

yeah it is, and the flashing process has been developed to be the same as the Skyconnect to change firmwares

cheaper than the Skyconnect for us gurt by sea folks too, lol

[quiet stirrup]

It’s like 30 bucks with shipping from Sydney, a bargain

[quick bronze]

And it's ... well known to be shit

[random garden]

the wrong one, yes

[quick bronze]

Both the P and the E have issues, don't buy them

[quiet stirrup]

Better than paying $70 for the sky connect 🙃

[random garden]

yeeeep

$75 from the Smart Guys IIRC, slightly cheaper off Amazon 🤷‍♂️

[quick bronze]

Buy anything other than the Sonoff 😉

[random garden]

in any case, the main source of my problems for Matter and Thread is mDNS. I'll look at relocating the Skyconnect to the upteenth cable extension if I need to, but I have logs that tell me mDNS is borked, so I'ma try and fix that. 🙂

[glacial sage]

I have Sonoff Zigbee Dongle-E at /dev/ttyACM0 and working with ZHA
I also have SkyConnect flashed with Thread-only firmware at /dev/ttyUSB0
I am running HA in Docker, both devices are passed through and can be seen by HA. If I do radio migration in ZHA, both comes up as option)

Neither Thead integration nor OpenThread Border Router integration is picking up SkyConnect automatically. What should enter as the border router REST API when asked?

I don't have MultiProtocol Add-on as I'm on Docker. I was hoping it is not needed when using Thread-only firmware, but I could be wrong?

[spring bramble]

Multiprotocol is a NO-GO at this point and HIGHLY experimental, especially if you also have a bunch of zigbee devices. Maybe better get a second skyconnect to have a stable zigbee and thread network seperated OR use a 3rd party border router which is also more recommended atm.

[sick swan]

TBH, I would not call it highly experimental, but yeah, it has it's hickups still.

FWIW, at 30 devices+ you might get into bandwith issue territory (as in, IEEEE 802.15.4 has not thaaat much bandwith). With Multiprotocol you share the bandwith between the two protocol. Once you get into bottleneck issues thinigs get unreliable.

So yeah, I agree separate radio so you can run the two networks can help here.

[spring bramble]

To be more complete: At this point the advised route to use Thread based Matter devices in HA is by using an existing Apple or Google Thread network, using the SkyConnect or HA Yellow Thread radio is still in development and we're adding more bits of the puzzle to make it work more robust and most important to get more diagnostic information in case of trouble.

[upbeat cairn]

Can you describe your Thread/Zigbee setup a little bit and what devices you have with both networks? Anything specific you do to get it to happen? I'm trying to reproduce the crash.

[glacial sage]

But I did! The goal is to run zigbee on Sonoff Dongle-E (this part is working) and SkyConnect just for thread (this part I couldn't get to work)

[upbeat cairn]

@random gardenIf you have any info as well about your Thread and Zigbee device mix that causes this crash for you, let me know

[spring bramble]

In that case, the Thread-only firmware should work pretty reliable (and at least simplifies the setup a bit) but this is not yet very polished in terms of UX/UI flows. Actually, the ONLY way to use the SkyConnect for Matter devices is if you have an Android phone setup with a Google account and the Google Home app set-up. First step would be to install the Thread Border router add-on which will flash the thread firmware to the SkyConnect and select that as preferred network in the Thread configuration panel. You can then use the HA Companion app on Android to commission devices

[glacial sage]

I know it's lower priority, but it's what I'm using, so I have to ask: Is there a way to make it work for container install?

[spring bramble]

No, not at this point. Your best bet is to get a dedicated border router like a Nest Hub 2 if you're in the Google ecosystem or Apple Homepod Mini if you are on Apple.

[glacial sage]

Got it. Thank you for taking the time to answer! I know this is not the first time these are asked.

[random garden]

Zigbee for me consists of a bunch of Aqara sensors, door locks, power boards/strips and USB repeaters (for added range). Thread is mainly Homekit over Thread, and that's Nanoleaf lights, another door lock and other power boards. It's a noisy environment, sure, but has worked well until I start poking the bear and adding things like Matter over Thread devices 🤷‍♂️ . I don't know what triggers the crashes, only know it's happened when the lights on the wall panel go 'unavailable'.

[wary mountain]

Running HAOS in a VM on Unraid. Skyconnect, zwave, and Bluetooth USBs. Unifi AP. I'm only running 3 Nanoleaf Thread + Homekit bulbs and 3 Nanoleaf Matter bulbs. No Zigbee devices, but I believe I am currently running multiprotocol firmware.

[upbeat cairn]

So you're able to trigger the crash (i.e. it only starts working again after a physical unplug) with just Thread devices, nothing Zigbee?

[spring bramble]

Are you sure that the whole SkyConnect crashed (and took your zigbee network down as well) ? I mention this because Nanoleaf devices are being reported as flaky with lots of connectivity issues

[wary mountain]

Correct

[spice imp]

What is so bad about sonoff?

[quick bronze]

You mean other than the fact that they're known to have problems?

The P has issues with corrupting NVRAM, causing the stick to stop working until settings are re-written to it. Oh, and it can crash under load.
The E also has stability problems

[spice imp]

But isn't that more related to the CC2652P?

[serene prawn]

@spice imp When using Discord's Reply feature it defaults to pinging the person you reply to, which can get frustrating for the target. Use Shift + click on the Reply option, or click @ ON to @ OFF to stop this - on the right side of the compose bar.

You have to change this every time (thank the Discord devs for that).

[quick bronze]

The P is the CC2652 stick

The E's problems are documented by the Zigpy devs who recommend against using it

[spice imp]

do you have a link?

[quick bronze]

https://github.com/zigpy/bellows#hardware-requirement

[spice imp]

Ahh, didnt get that iTead is sonoff 😄

[upbeat cairn]

9888010100045 is Sonoff's first attempt at an EFR32 stick (https://zigbee.blakadder.com/ITEAD_9888010100045.html), which had massive antenna problems. The -E is a second attempt and doesn't suffer from the same problem.

[spice imp]

That’s crazy, i can get them for 45 aud where i live.

[quick bronze]

So... you're saying that it's got other problems then 😛

[wary mountain]

Unplugged and replugged the Skyconnect

 Logger: coap-server
Source: runner.py:186
First occurred: 2:37:01 AM (4845 occurrences)
Last logged: 5:00:00 PM
Error received and ignored in this codepath: [Errno 101] Network unreachable

Matter server logs (occurs for several nodes, not just 7).

2023-10-10 16:59:40 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller[126] WARNING Unable to subscribe to Node 7 as it is unavailable, will retry later in the background.
2023-10-10 17:00:11 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR Timeout waiting for mDNS resolution.
2023-10-10 17:00:25 core-matter-server chip.DIS[126] ERROR OperationalSessionSetup[1:0000000000000008]: operational discovery failed: src/lib/address_resolve/AddressResolve_DefaultImpl.cpp:114: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout

I have some functionality back after unplugging and replugging the Skyconnect.

1 of 3 Matter bulbs are working, 2 of 3 Homekit bulbs.

@upbeat cairn @spring bramble If there's anything you want me to look at.

+1 homekit, +1 matter

Logger: aiohomekit.controller.coap.pdu
Source: components/homekit_controller/connection.py:253
First occurred: 5:00:49 PM (6 occurrences)
Last logged: 5:02:41 PM

Transaction 0 failed with error 6 (Invalid request

[upbeat cairn]

Do you have any ZigBee green power devices nearby, not necessarily connected to your network? Like Hue tap or Friends of Hue switches?

[wary mountain]

Nothing Zigbee. I'm not sure what protocol this Tuya outlet uses, but I believe it's isolated through the API.

I could pull the skyconnect, plug it into my PC, and see what firmware it's running.

2023-10-10 17:01:53 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 8][126] INFO Re-Subscription succeeded
...
2023-10-10 17:06:41 core-matter-server PersistentStorage[126] INFO Committing...
2023-10-10 17:06:42 core-matter-server chip.EM[126] ERROR OnMessageReceived failed, err = src/messaging/ExchangeMgr.cpp:304: CHIP Error 0x00000070: Unsolicited msg with originator bit clear
2023-10-10 17:06:43 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 4][126] INFO Subscription succeeded

Interesting that most are Subscription and one is Re-Subscription

eyy, everything's working properly. 6 of 6 bulbs responding.

And the only change I made overnight was unplug the skyconnect for about 10 seconds and plug it back into the same port.

Interestingly, detaching and reattaching to the VM had no effect.

[upbeat cairn]

Which Tuya devices do you have?

[dim pine]

It was a royal pain, but I got multiproto nuked off the box, and I'm only on OTBR now. We'll see how stable she stays, thank you again

[digital salmon]

Today I received my second AppleTV 4K 3. Gen with Ethernet interface. Both devices are hardwired. There is no other Thread Border Router in my home. In the iOS Flame app I see the trel.udp service on both devices. Is there any way to validate, if TREL works as expected?

[digital salmon]

In my Apple Home settings I see that my new ‘Abstellkammer Apple TV‘ is now connected, while my ‘Wohnbereich Apple TV‘ is in standby. I read on Reddit that the active Apple Home Hub is chosen in alphabetical order. I don’t know if that is true, but for me it seems to be true.

https://imgur.com/a/eHRVyo3

[spring bramble]

Yeah, but I think/hope that is independent from the Border Router role and that will work also on a standby device?

[spring bramble]

Should TREL only be supported on the 3rd gen ATV ? I picked up a few homepod mini's on ebay cheap and spread those around the house as my attempts to get house wide coverage.

[vapid shell]

Homepods running ios 17 should do trel

[vapid shell]

HomeHub status is not something that shows up in routes, all routes are equal weight

So shouldn’t be of any significance to routing

[spring bramble]

Yeah, that's what I suspected

[spice imp]

So my Google Nest hub and Apple TV are in the same thread network again now and I don’t know how that happened 😂

[digital salmon]

Yes, that’s what I also suspected. But is there any way to validate if TREL works as expected? 😃

[vapid shell]

Not really

Wrap an Apple TV in tin foil and then disable RAs on a test Linux vm and manually configure it to use that Apple TV as a br. Verify it works.

[digital salmon]

Ok, thanks for the answer. 😃

[rose spindle]

Unifi here too, and having issues with onboarding Leviton gen2 plugs after i flkash the matter firmware. Did you figure this out?

[digital salmon]

I don’t know. I only have two AppleTV 4K from the 3. Generation. Here you see two screenshots from the Flame app with the trel.udp service active:

https://imgur.com/a/hGA31rX

Not directly Thread related, but do you have any idea why I see the matter.tcp service only on my ’Abstellkammer Apple TV‘ and not on the ‘Wohnbereich Apple TV‘?

‘Abstellkammer Apple TV‘ is the active Home Hub. Maybe only the active Home Hub shows the matter.tcp service. What do you think?

[spice imp]

Which Apple TV did you start first?

I could imagine that once a Matter controller is started on one Apple TV it’s not shut down again

So maybe the “active” hub is not telling the whole truth

[digital salmon]

’Wohnbereich Apple TV‘ was my only AppleTV until yesterday. I didn’t reboot it after installing the new ‘Abstellkammer Apple TV‘. But maybe 10min after I brought the new AppleTV to its final position, it was the active Apple Home Hub automatically.

[digital salmon]

Maybe the answer to my question is that simple. 😃

[spice imp]

What is the node id of the entry?

[digital salmon]

Where do I find the node id? Which entry do you mean?

[spice imp]

its the last part after the -

[digital salmon]

Do you mean this?

56C9B2CDB64EAE51-0008D640E7123F09

[spice imp]

Yeah

the last part you can compare with the "acl" entry from the matter diagnostics

https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip/tree/master/examples/light-switch-app/nrfconnect#binding-cluster-and-endpoints

the first entry kind of explains it

Or wait

never mind

Your home assistant is on a different "fabric"

But basically what my thought is if the second Apple TV is a matter “device” and not controller and maybe exposing some data for Apple. Because im not sure if an controller normally advertises itself on mdns.

[turbid helm]

I have a thread/matter light that I am trying to add to HA, it gets to checking network connectivity and then fails saying it can't reach the device and to make sure my phone is connected to wifi ?

not sure what wifi has to do with this, and it obviously is connected to wifi or I wouldn't be talking to my HA instance

its also able to contact the device because if the light is turned off I don't get that far

[random garden]

Yes and no. I have periods of connectivity where the Nanoleaf Matter bulb will appear on my phone to commission with a QR code, which suggests mDNS traffic gets through eventually. However I've found if the commissioning is not done within 5 minutes, it will timeout and I need to either wait for the next prompt (about 10 minutes) or cycle the WiFi and use the same WiFi connection that HA sits on (marcelveldt made it abundantly clear that commissioning does not like network hopping, so I've had to modify my Unifi network to allow non-IOT devices to connect (ie. my phone) to allow for commissioning to take place).

[spring bramble]

not sure what wifi has to do with this

[spring bramble]

Not only for commissioning but actually for all communication its important that the devices and/or border routers are on the same (layer 2) network as the Matter controller.

[random garden]

when it has been working properly, the Nanoleaf Android app will show a prompt within the app to add it to a Matter controller (to which I can specify Home Assistant). Once it got to this point, it comunicated with the Matter addon in HA, completed the required handshakes and added successfully.

Seems to me that if you add the bulb without the Nanoleaf app (from scratch via the HA companion app), the credentials used to authenticate will change each time (regardless of what you actually enter). If added via the Nanoleaf Android app (after pairing), the handshake logs will show the same commissioning code that is on the side of the bulb and will add without much fuss.

[bronze fog]

@paper oar Only the "active" ATV will have the Matter mDNS entry

[still quiver]

here to the fastest voice activated light turning on...speed of HA thread nanoleaf bulb and openwakeword.
https://youtube.com/shorts/_mx2RGHDsEQ?feature=share

[quiet stirrup]

@peak ocean

The Nanoleaf stuff is out for pre-order

https://nanoleaf.me/en-AU/products/ceiling-lights/downlight/?size=4

[peak ocean]

Oooh thanks for the heads up

[digital salmon]

Perfect, thanks for the acknowledgment. 😃

[digital salmon]

Yes, HA is a different fabric. But my question is answered now. 😃

[queen hatch]

Hey, I've been reading/googling but still don't have a clear answer:

I'm getting a smart home going with no existing devices, trying to figure out what thread border router to get. I have the impression that Google's going to be the most compatible with other devices, but not sure. What would y'all recommend?

[queen hatch]

Or do I just go with HomeAssistant Yellow?

[latent schooner]

Any EFR32MG21 based Zigbee stick can be upgraded to be a border router

Including Skyconnect

[bronze fog]

@queen hatch If you have Android phones, look for a Google smart hub. If you are an iPhone house, use an Apple TV.

[queen hatch]

We're mixed 🤷‍♂️

[bronze fog]

Do you have an Apple TVs or Google smart hubs with thread?

[spice imp]

There is no Android app for Apple Home

But and Android app for Google Home

[bronze fog]

What phone does the HA primary admin use (you?)? Meaning, who will be adding and removing thread devices from your smart home?

[queen hatch]

Android. Would having a HA Yellow solve those issues?

[bronze fog]

No you want a commercial smart hub that's the thread border router. Be it Google or Apple. None of the Skyconnect/HA solutions are production ready.

[queen hatch]

Gotcha, thanks

[bronze fog]

Are you already running HA, or looking to get into HA fresh?

[queen hatch]

Fresh and clean

Just bought a house, getting set up for the first time

[bronze fog]

IMHO, I would get a lower end Beelink Intel mini PC and do a bare metal HAOS install on it. No messing with hypervisors, no weird networking complications. And it will be WAYYYY more powerful than any Yellow/Green/Raspberry pi. I wrote an article here about various Beelink options: https://www.derekseaman.com/2023/04/hands-on-beelink-mini-pcs-for-proxmox-home-assistant-and-plex.html

Then get a google hub for your thread border router

N100 is $160 with coupon and more than enough CPU/Memory/disk for HA: https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-Pro-Desktop-Computer-1000Mbps/dp/B0C89TQ1YF

[inner torrent]

I'll offer a router view and say I run a RPI with HAOS + Coral and it works fine for whatever I've wanted to do. I'm not really an advocate for Omni hardware (e.g. I have a NVR that's a separate piece of equipment)

I have a thread network with about 18 devices (skyconnect and Google BRs ) and I've not had issues (unless it's device firmware)

[woeful spoke]

I have a question on the matter/thread integration. I have set it up and it has detected my google nest thread network. Set as preferred border router network. Currently I have one device (nanoleaf matter light strip) that supports matter and is running on that thread network. confirmed in both the nanoleaf/google home apps that it is on the thread network.

Both thread/matter integrations show a single entry from the integration page. Is there something I am missing to get home assistant to see/control the device or link in with matter?

[inner torrent]

Did you share the device from Google home to HA?

If not instructions can be found here
https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/

[woeful spoke]

Thank you. It had shown up with there previously but when I went back in it was missing. doing that again got it showing.

[peak ocean]

Was there any announcement on release date now that preorders are open?

[quiet stirrup]

I asked, apparently Q4, not sure around specific times

[peak ocean]

Doesn't look like it's listed in JB yet, so probably not next week

[quiet stirrup]

Yeah, i wouldn’t be suprised if it was released in the EU/NA first, then here

[rare plank]

Need some guidance. Integrations discovered a Thread device. I didn't think anything of it since I don't own any Thread devices, but I clicked Configure and Do you want to set up.... Clicked the Thread integration where it said No devices or entities. I clicked Configure.
Next screen shows Preferred Network (which I don't have set) and then under Other Networks I see: AMZN-Thread-a59b and 2 border routers and two Echos. After some investigating, I determined these are my two Amazon Echo 4th Gens. Clicking either of the Echos doesn't do anything and clicking Add an OpenThread Border Router asks for a URL for the REST API.
I guess what I'm trying to figure out is what (if anything) can (or should) I do next?

[spring bramble]

@rare plank there is nothing you need to do, that integration just lists your thread networks, ignore it for now and another reminder for us to improve the UX here

[vernal herald]

Can someone help me I have my home assistant and got sky connect hooked up and running zha but it shows the sky connect as just cp2102n usb to uart bridge. It works as all devices connect via zigbee but in the instructions to get thread going it says I should be able to go to settings hardware and then the sky connect and enable multi thread but again there it shows the same usb to uart bridge…again zigbee works fine but it’s not showing it as sky connect…

[spring bramble]

Yes, the SkyConnect is a Zigbee dongle by default. Using is for thread is also possible although at the moment we do not really recommend enabling it due to some firmware issues. What is your goal ? Using the stick for (thread) only communication instead ?

[vernal herald]

In the future yes just making sure I am set…when I read the instructions I got really nervous as again nothing shows as sky connect just usb to uart

[spring bramble]

It depends, did you insert it into a machine running Home Assistant OS ?
Note that on any other setup the SkyConnect dongle will only be useable as Zigbee stick, not Thread.

[vernal herald]

It’s a old nuc pc running home assistant off a usb adapter that has a nvme drive. It’s generic x86 home assistant os…that’s good right? Or do I need to look into another way of running it

[spring bramble]

you will need the 64 bits Home Assistant OS install

[vernal herald]

Okay under hardware it says generic x86 64. So I am assuming it is 64 bit version

CPU architecture reads x86_64

[spring bramble]

Then you should be all set. So where exactly is the SkyConnect detected as usb to uart bridge ?
Wasn't it detected by the ZHA integration for Zigbee ?

[lavish thorn]

I have an aqara p2 "door and window" contact sensor added to HA via Thread and Matter with my Nest Hub Max as the Border Router. It all works as a sensor, but...

If connected to an aqara hub I would be able to use the aqara app to set the sensitivity (the size of gap that is considered closed)

Does anyone know if it is possible to make the sensitivity adjustment without the aqara hub?

[spice imp]

Are you sure you Can change that?

[lavish thorn]

I'm confident - it's an electronic hall effect sensor not a magnetic reed switch, so it makes sense it could be adjusted

And it's mentioned on the aqara web site: https://www.aqara.com/en/product/door-and-window-sensor-p2/

[spice imp]

" Please note: the Aqara Home support for the Door and Window Sensor P2 will only be available after the launch of the Hub M3"

I dont think its supported yet.

[lavish thorn]

That page talks about future OTA updates plus the M3 hub enabling extra features, yes.

It also says "functionality such as automation conditions may vary throughout the different ecosystems"

So I suppose it would be reasonable to expect HA with a skyconnect to offer deeper integration than using the Google Hub as the thread border router?

[spice imp]

Not at this point

Also it might not even be built into the software yet

There are also a lot of features my FP2s are supposed to get

but that aren't out yet.

[lavish thorn]

The site seems clear that they only expect the P2 button and adjustable sensitivity to work via the M3 hub + home app, but hopefully they'll be exposed in HA 🤷‍♂️

Adjustable Sensitivity
Users can fine-tune the sensitivity of the sensor within a range of 1-3 cm and adjust the sleep time based on specific scenarios.

Programmable Button
The programmable button will trigger automations. For example, it will help you to arm an alert system when you are leaving home.

Tamper Alarm
The Tamper Alarm feature will send immediate alerts to your smartphone if the sensor is tampered with.

[spice imp]

They probably will. But their hub is not even out yet.

[lavish thorn]

https://www.aqara.com/en/product/door-and-window-sensor-p2/

I have a Sonoff Dongle E in the mail, so can start to explore as soon as I have time to play (and assuming the thread firmware is easy to flash :D)

[vernal herald]

In devices and under zha I have never had anything pop up that says Skyconnect, I did have an old hubzb1 that I migrated from…also in settings system it says nothing about sky connect thats what has me concerned something is wrong and it won’t auto update firmware etc because it doesn’t see it as a sky connect but uses it as a zigbee stick and it works

[spring bramble]

To me this sounds like you received a faulty SkyConnect but I'm no hardware expert.

[vernal herald]

I have been trying to track down support for them to no avail too I will try again

Thank you!

[spice imp]

Is it directly connected? Or are you using an usb extension?

[vernal herald]

Have tried both ways but right now it’s the usb extension cable that came with it

[spice imp]

Ahh okay. I have read a long time ago about someone having an faulty extension cable.

[upbeat cairn]

When you say "it won't auto-update the firmware", what do you mean? There are currently no firmware updates for the SkyConnect except ones you manually flash. If you SkyConnect works for Zigbee, it's 100% functional.

If you flash Thread-only firmware to the SkyConnect, you cannot use it for Zigbee so you will first need to migrate your Zigbee network to another adapter.

[vernal herald]

I would assume in the near future they will enable zigbee and thread on this. I had a zigbee stick in the hubzb1 I thought this was advertised as zigbee and thread and future proof.

[upbeat cairn]

If you want to run the experimental multi-protocol firmware, go to the System > Hardware menu and click on the "Configure" button near the SkyConnect

[vernal herald]

Correct, there is no sky connect at the bottom just the usb to uart listing…

[upbeat cairn]

Could you upload a screenshot of what you see?

[vernal herald]

Yep as soon as I see an option on how to do that, sorry I am new to discord and not seeing any option to upload files or anything

[upbeat cairn]

Not a problem. I think uploads are disabled for this channel so you can instead host it on some image sharing site and post a link to the image.

[vernal herald]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xP8qQT1YTVFGrJPc8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6hBWjLCdHhGwTNQ39

First one is in hardware, next one is what zha sees

did that work?

[upbeat cairn]

It did, thanks. How are you running Home Assistant OS?

[vernal herald]

ITs a HP MP9 G2 computer that I took the ssd out of and have it running off a NVME hard drive that is attatched via USB in a NVME to usb adapter

[upbeat cairn]

Do you have HA OS installed directly or is it running in a virtual machine?

[vernal herald]

directly

IT boots straight into Home assistant, and there is no windows or anything else on drive

[upbeat cairn]

Your SkyConnect is blue, right? Did you buy it brand new?

[vernal herald]

Blue and bought it brand new from ameridroid

the link on the skyconnect website

[upbeat cairn]

Interesting. Do you have SSH access to the Home Assistant installation? Or another computer you could possibly plug the SkyConnect in to to test something out?

[spice imp]

Are there any significant changes in HASOS 11 compared to 10.5? Yesterday I removed a border router from my network and afterwards HA wasn’t able to connect to the devices again until I restarted it.

(Home assistant)

Before that it has been running solid for months.

[lavish thorn]

My Aqara P2 Door and Window contact sensor drained its battery in less than a week... https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZvXqiWc9f7yffuxT9

It spends most of the time in the "closed" position, and is connected to a Google Hub Max border router and appears in Home Assistant via the Matter integration

Is HA likely/possibly involved in the battery drain in this scenario? Any helpful logs that can be captured before I remove the device?

[quick bronze]

I doubt Threat sensors are any different to Zigbee and Z-Wave in that you can't poll them, which means HA can't be responsible

Most likely cause is going to be a weak signal and/or interference

[vapid shell]

We did discover that one of the patches wasn’t working yesterday and in fact never did

The kernel wasn’t using the neighbour data in route selection so stale routes were being selected

That’s fixed on the night lies

The problem would have only manifested for 30 minutes at a time

And only when a homekit dropped off wifi etc

So it’s possible that with rock solid WiFi and a bit of getting lucky you didn’t hit that before

Certainly it’s never worked

[vapid shell]

I think homekit over thread is pollable, even for battery powered devices. Session key exchanges are initiated by the controller. Also you can ping thread devices. Which is kind of like polling.

Battery powered thread devices are sleepy and they wake up every X seconds to ask their router if their are any messages (packets) queued.

That does mean battery powered devices are laggy when you control them

[spice imp]

for me it was 12 hours

My girlfriend was complaining because she needed to press the button every 30 seconds when she was in the bathroom 😄

[spice imp]

I have multiple that have been fine for a month or two now. Maybe you have a bad battery? Otherwise battery estimation can be very hard. Some batteries first drop the voltage when they are basically empty and so on, so maybe the estimation in the beginning was wrong or is wrong now?

[vapid shell]

If it happens again I’d be interested in seeing the route table

Is this mesh one with a skyconnect on?

[spice imp]

No, 1 nest hub, 1 Apple HomePod mini, 1 ATV

The Apple TV and HomePod where also in different homes, but all in the same thread network

[vapid shell]

Were they in range of each other?

[spice imp]

And i removed the Apple TV when it stopped working.

[spice imp]

They should be

[vapid shell]

The other house I mean

Or do you mean an Apple home

[spice imp]

With different homes i mean different “Apple homes” within the same appartment and Lan

[vapid shell]

Right

[spice imp]

Besides that im running full unifi. But there has been no problem with that before.

For me at least 😁

And i have a flat network

[vapid shell]

So it really depends what the RT looked like during the outage

[spice imp]

Yes

I can try to reproduce it again today

[vapid shell]

Sort of wondering if a Br was still advertising a route but not actually on the mesh for some reason

[spice imp]

I actually rebooted both remaining border routers

[vapid shell]

And then waited half an hour?

[spice imp]

Yes

[vapid shell]

Had matter noticed they were missing

And it was trying to reconnect?

[spice imp]

Yeah, it was trying to reconnect.

[lavish thorn]

There's 4 meters of open air between the P2 sensor and the Google Hub Max

[spice imp]

Everything was working on both Google and Apple

[lavish thorn]

Both are away from electrics, access points and usual suspects.

[lavish thorn]

OK - I'll try a new battery before changing any configuration

[vapid shell]

If it happens again can you validate that it’s connecting to the right address?

Apple likes to change the /64, maybe we are missing address change in some cases

[spice imp]

Yes, ill try to collect some data next time it happens

[spice imp]

That would explain why it would not start up again

[fickle mantle]

Thought I would let you know, that I have had the Aqara P2 D&W sensor still running for couple of months using HA Matter via SiLabsMultiPAN/SkyConnect and no battery issues that I know of.

[lavish thorn]

Thx - I'll have a Sonoff Dongle-E to play with soon, so I could setup a different integration, but I'm suspecting I might have a faulty device. It's a shame the only way to tell is to let it start consuming another battery 😕

[lavish thorn]

I wonder if those extra wake-ups are the reason why the Aqara P2 uses a massive battery compared to their zigbee contact sensor?

[bright lion]

Hello all, and apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum for this discussion,
I am trying to understand if Home Assistant's Matter integration works when using Thread Border Routers that are not Apple/Google products (i.e a raspberry-pi with a nrf RCP).

[vapid shell]

There are some pinned posts that should help with that.

The matter server itself doesn’t care as long as your google phone knows about the border router already

Or you can get a TLV to import into HA

But it’s also not a tested setup so have fun when it breaks

[bright lion]

That's what I have been doing, importing the TLV to the HA. Interesting that HA can tell that the network has a border router when its in the "Other Networks" categrory, once TLV is imported and the network is now the "Preferred Network" HA thinks "no border networks found"

[bright lion]

Can you point me to those posts ? sorry I am new to discord

[vapid shell]

So on the iOS app at least at the top near the “hamburger” menu there is a big grey # and then it says thread

Click on that and then click on pins

Sorry I don’t know what other apps or the website does and I’m not near a desk to look

They don’t cover your use case exactly but they do cover a lot of permutations so you should be able to get a sense of what to expect

[bright lion]

I will take a look, thanks a lot !

[static spear]

heyo, can anyone else with a echo gen 4 confirm the thread version is 1.1.1?

[vapid shell]

I don’t but I do recall the echo being behind

Eg searching for 1.1.1 - #matter-archived message

[magic girder]

Does anyone happen to know what happened to the OpenThread android app? I see a lot of references to it, but it doesn't seem to exist on the play store anymore?

[inner torrent]

Are you sure you're not looking at references to the OTBR addon in the HA android companion app?

[magic girder]

Yes very sure.

[spice imp]

Do you have a link to somewhere where the app is referenced?

There are some sample apps by Google that you need to build yourself. But i dont think anyone has used them.

[magic girder]

No it was definitely a thing. It used to be on the app store.

https://cdn6.aptoide.com/imgs/2/7/c/27ce8ce67b18254b79441e090e6102eb_screen.png

[magic girder]

This is the link that used to point to it in the play store, but it's not there anymore.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.threadgroup.commissioner&hl=en

Several manufacturers refer to it in their documentation.

[spice imp]

But thats for thread comissioning.

You Can only do that for pure thread devices.

Matter is fx not using thread comissioning.

What do you actually need it for?

If you are building your own device you might just set the thread dataset using a cmd interface

[magic girder]

Yes I know. I'm working on a device. I'm only asking here because it's a thread channel.

[spice imp]

https://github.com/openthread/ot-commissioner
Here is the source

But what would your usecase even be?

A mqtt thread device?

[magic girder]

Something like that. I don't need all the extra baggage of matter as the functionality is very simple.

[spice imp]

Well depending on what you want to accomplish Matter might be the better way of doing it, if its somehow supported in the spec.

[bronze fog]

I'm posting a series on Thread/Matter with bits of Home Assistant thrown in. Part 1: https://www.derekseaman.com/2023/10/part-1-smart-home-matter-and-thread-deep-dive.html

[magic girder]

Matter is great for its intended use cases, but it's extremely complicated and time consuming to implement, adds a lot of complexity to your codebase, changes constantly, and is completely unnecessary for simple tasks. Thread is specifically designed to be simple to implement, have a small codebase and it provides full IPv6 onto which you can build anything you want that can talk to anything globally. And it is fully meshed with zero single points of failure, unlike things like WiFi or Zigbee.

[balmy pelican]

Hi

Is it at all possible to run the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol add-on as TBR in an HAOS-VM?

I notice quite an IPv6 mess..

[vapid shell]

Read the message pins in #matter-archived

Sort of but it isn’t as polished or robust as the other options yet

[balmy pelican]

Do I see it right, that multicast messages from FE80:/10 to FC02::/16 are blocked with the add-on?

I do have an ATV4K gen 3 with Thread support, so I'll drop trying to use he Silicon Labs Multiprotocol add-on, but this does look like a showstopper

[spice imp]

I actually think that it is not that complicated if the device functionality is something that is supported in the spec. Have you looked at some of the example applications?

[spring bramble]

If you already have an ATV 4K to use as border router, I'd recommend that now.

[fickle mantle]

Just as an FYI, I run HassOS in QEMU/KVM based VM and have not had any problems regarding IPv6 with running SiLabs Multiprotocol AddOn.

[turbid helm]

there any good thread lights yet? I've tried nanoleaf and mujoy and not a huge fan of either

[bronze fog]

Is there a way in the Eve app to associate non-Eve thread devices to what physical device it is? I see several "Endpoint 14-xx" and the details are very unhelpful. I also see Router xx, which I assume are my Apple TVs. But which is which?

[inner torrent]

I think that's it; otherwise it's ZigBee, matter over WiFi, or wifi

[turbid helm]

ok, I've got a ton of zigbee and wifi, looking to move to thread as primary but think still too early

[inner torrent]

Nanoleaf has had some firmware issues to say the least, but seems they are aware of the problems. Since you have some already I'd just keep up to date on firmware and only get more once you feel like the performance is acceptable

[turbid helm]

will do, the nanoleaf light gets really hot

[scarlet juniper]

Hi,
I'm running Home Assistant on a raspberry pi with the Skyconnect dongle in multiprotocol, trying to use it as a Thread border router for my Smartwings zebra blinds which have a Matter over Thread motor. However the blinds won't pair, they won't connect during the Matter pairing process. Either scanning the qr-code or pasting in the code result in the blinds not being added. I've followed the instructions from Smartwings to set the blinds in paring mode, Skyconnect is set to multiprotocol, and the correct integrations/add-ons are installed. Still no luck.
Any advice, tips or solutions?

[vapid shell]

Start by reading the pinned posts in #matter-archived and making sure that there aren’t any known gotchas that apply to you

Eg right now you’ll need an Android phone that’s not seen a nest or other googly border router to be able to set up the device with SkyConnect

[scarlet juniper]

Ah thanks, that looks useful. I'll start reading it.

[scarlet juniper]

Do have that.

But I also read stuff about networking. I'm running a UDM SE as router from which all my IoT devices including HA are in a separate network. So that might also have to do with it.

[quiet stirrup]

Ah yep, if your HA instance, IoT device (in this case Nanoleaf bulb) and border router isn’t on the same vlan, it isn’t possible

Well, it is, just requires a deep knowledge of networking

[scarlet juniper]

yea,.. will do some more deep diving and post results here when I have some findings.

[vapid shell]

In your case your border router is in the same network as your ha instance, and your thread device (bulb) will never be on a vlan, it’ll be behind the border router. So you are all covered there.

But your phone will need to be on the same vlan as Ha (and border router, though again not relevant in your case because ha=br)

Just while you set things up

[scarlet juniper]

Yeah that's the weird thing.
I've also just connected my phone to the IoT network just to give it a try that way, but no difference there. Would really like to avoid buying a Google Nest Hub gen2 as border router and just pair the SmartWings Matter blinds with the Skyconnect and have HA as br.

Don't know how I did it, but finally after the many tries.. with Android phone in same network as HA, blinds in paring mode and pasting in the code (not qr) I got the blinds connected to HA with Matter over Thread with HA + Skyconenct as border router,.. Sooo happy now 😃 🎉

[vapid shell]

If only one device and battery powered and you had trouble with it, one thing to be mindful of is signal strength

I think ideally you want some mains powered thread devices near the SkyConnect

[scarlet juniper]

Not sure, I'm guessing that switching my Android phone to the SSID of my IoT network segment (in which my HA pi operates) did the trick. I started with the blind that's farest away from my HA pi, and it paired using the HA Matter integration and pasting in the code . Maybe something with mDNS / IPv6 stuff and segmented networks on my UDM SE router. But most imporant, there is a way to make it work and now operates as supose to 😃

[inner torrent]

I have a similar setup, when adding matter devices via phone I have to use the IoT vlan wifi network to pair, then after it's paired, you should be able to operate it from your non IoT network

(also udmSE)

[scarlet juniper]

Correct 💯

[digital salmon]

Someone on Reddit mentioned that his two Google Nest Hub 2 now announce the trel.udp service. 😃

https://www.reddit.com/r/MatterProtocol/s/FGrHXJOI00

[spice imp]

It has been doing that for a long time

You can also kind of merge your networks now

[digital salmon]

Ok, I thought that it’s only available in the Apple ecosystem at the moment. Thanks for the information.

[digital salmon]

How does that work?

[spice imp]

#matter-archived message

[turbid helm]

will I have to worry about thread/wifi frequency interference ?

from reading online the answer seems to be yes so adjust your wifi to not overlap with thread, but external sources are out of my control and prevalent in this area

[spice imp]

The only way to find out is by trial and error

You should probably try to follow the best practices by using different channels for your 2.4ghz networks. But it’s no guarantee

If you are lucky everything could also run fine on the same channel

[turbid helm]

the more devices I add the more likely that will change

thread being a consumer protocol, seems strange they would directly overlap another consumer protocol which will likely be present and in heavy use

[scarlet juniper]

They operate on same frequency but on different channels.

See here: https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/about-multiprotocol/

The image on that page shows it clearly.

[turbid helm]

it does, thank you, so there are some spaces that don't overlap

[scarlet juniper]

Zigbee/Thread channels 15, 20, and 25 are less likely to be affected by Wi-Fi interference since they are in between the most commonly Wi-Fi channels 1, 6 and 11.

If you're using multiprotocol on Skyconnect make also sure both Zigbee and Thread are on the same channel (should be by default).

Instructions to check if they are, are on that same webpage.

[turbid helm]

they are both on channel 15 so the current configuration seems optimal

[scarlet juniper]

Same channel here and works fine.
Just make sure the Skyconnect or other dongle is connected with an usb extension to your server (pi in my case) so it's not as close to the wifi chip as that could still cause interference.

[turbid helm]

skyconnect is connected to a wired rpi with wifi turned off, one of the wifi access points is a few feet above it though

[scarlet juniper]

Would use the USB extension cable just to be sure.

[spice imp]

There is no other way. The only frequency they are allowed to use.

This is actually why not a lot of protocols use sub ghz frequencies. Each region has a different frequency ranges for sub ghz

[still quiver]

Hi, 11.1 rc1 has this listed:
"Fix IPv6 routing failover for Thread."
Any idea what problems this will solve?

[spice imp]

Yes, a bug that google doesnt want to fix 😄

Im pretty sure that it has to do with wifi matter devices not accepting route advertisements from the apple border router

resuling in thread devices not being able to communicate with wifi devices

Thats at least something that has been fixed in this release

[spring bramble]

A bit of an advanced use case where you have multiple border routers and one of them goes offline. It took (max) 30 minutes to failover an dnow its just a few seconds

[still quiver]

oh this is awesome!

[narrow ledge]

Hi all - I'm having an issue connecting Matter/Thread devices to HA via SkyConnect.

Pertinent info: HAOS installed in Proxmox VM, SkyConnect USB stick forwarded. Multiprotocol addon set up and configured by HA Settings > Hardware > Configure option. OTBR is installed and running (channel 15, same as the ZHA). 3x Nanoleaf Essentials lightbulbs that see the Thread network (according to the Nanoleaf app) but won't connect to it; attempts to manually commission them via QR or code entry fail on the "Connecting to Network" stage. I've tried factory resetting, removing/reconfiguring the SkyConnect dongle, removing/reinstalling the relevant integrations, but nothing's working. I don't think it's a hardware fault with the dongle because it works fine with a few Z-wave devices I have set up. I'm happy to provide logs and more info, I'm just getting to the point where I'm a bit out of my depth.

[spring bramble]

see matter channel, pinned posts. First of all, I highly doubt you commissioned Z-Wave devices to the SkyConnect diongle 😉

[wary mountain]

@upbeat cairn SkyConnect crashed 31 minutes ago. You guys want some kind of logs?

If I unplug it for about 10 seconds and plug it back in, it'll probably come back.

Source: components/google_assistant/http.py:217
Integration: Google Assistant (documentation, issues)
First occurred: October 23, 2023 at 12:09:08 AM (189 occurrences)
Last logged: 11:13:58 PM

Request for https://homegraph.googleapis.com/v1/devices:requestSync failed: 500
Request for https://homegraph.googleapis.com/v1/devices:reportStateAndNotification failed: 404

That's about the right time, but seems like a symptom and not the cause.

Matter Server start of logs.

2023-10-24 23:19:15 core-matter-server matter_server.server.device_controller.[node 4][126] INFO Previous subscription failed with Error: 50, re-subscribing in 11308 ms...
2023-10-24 23:20:22 core-matter-server chip.EM[126] ERROR Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:155823962 on exchange 41883i sendCount: 4 max retries: 4
2023-10-24 23:20:30 core-matter-server chip.SC[126] ERROR CASESession timed out while waiting for a response from the peer. Current state was 4
2023-10-24 23:20:30 core-matter-server chip.DMG[126] ERROR Failed to establish CASE for re-subscription with error 'src/protocols/secure_channel/CASESession.cpp:485: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout'

OTBR says no errors.

Home Assistant SkyConnect        
Multi-PAN (RCP) 4.3.1
Home Assistant SkyConnect

Looks like that SkyConnect firmware is more up to date than https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/firmware-update/

[upbeat cairn]

Just what you did to cause the crash 😅

[wary mountain]

Left it on long enough.

server Uptime 14 days 21 hours 58 minutes

unplug it for about ten seconds, plug it back in, and it usually comes back.

[glad prairie]

I am having a hard time commissioning devices using the HA Companion app (android), as it attempts to join devices to an old thread network. Does the "Sync Thread Credentials" function work? integrations/thread contains only one network (the correct one)

[vapid shell]

Unfortunately AIUI it’s hard to persuade Android to forget an existing thread network

Last I heard I think the only work around involved removing or resetting something in google play services? Not an Android guy so don’t remember the specifics. You lost your wallet in the process I remember that 😂

[glad prairie]

yes, I did read that too, i'm a bit hesitant to do that

[vapid shell]

There is work happening on commissioning without an app at all, but I’ve not seen a time frame for that.

[glad prairie]

I am experimenting a lot with different hardware, so I see this happening often.

[glad prairie]

This demo app from google can at least get the preferred TLV so that I can set the BR and thread implementation to it: https://developers.home.google.com/codelabs/thread-sharing-apis#3

[clear hearth]

Is there an easy way to get the TLV from apple thread network?

[vapid shell]

No

You can either make your own matter device with an esp chip or you can buy a nanoleaf border router

But you shouldn’t need the TLV for anything that’s supported

[digital salmon]

You do not necessarily need a Nanoleaf Thread Border Router. A Nanoleaf (Matter over) Thread bulb and an Apple Thread Border Router is enough to show you the relevant data. I see the following Thread network information with only AppleTVs as the Thread Border Router and an E27 Nanoleaf Matter overThread bulb:

• Name
• Channel
• PAN ID
• Extended PAN ID
• Network Key
• PSKc

[quiet stirrup]

@peak ocean, downlights will be out apparently mid December, just asked a nanoleaf sales rep

[peak ocean]

Aww, that's super late

thanks for the heads up though

[quiet stirrup]

yeah, shocked they are allowing pre-orders so early. crazy as

[inner torrent]

Did you hear anything else about their other delayed stuff? (Switches, skylight)

[quiet stirrup]

Nope, might ask when i ask when they come into work next. but no doubt there would be a nanoleaf event before the end of year

[inner torrent]

I had been waiting on the switches for months as I liked the idea of the tactical brightness slider but at this point I'm wondering if I should just get some inovelli blues and call it a day

[quiet stirrup]

the switches seem EPIC, so versitile and actually creative.

[digital salmon]

Same here. Maybe the launch the Sense Controls, when they get their lights stable.

Hi, I have a new iPhone 15 Pro Max. Any idea how to test the integrated Thread Radio?

[vapid shell]

what are you expecting it to do?

If you are expecting to use it with the home app, try turning WiFi off and see if your Apple home thread devices still work maybe?

If you are hoping it’s a border router, check in mdns for any of the usual thread related mdns records

[spring bramble]

It is not yet in use, its for future use

[digital salmon]

Ok, thanks for the info

[vast thorn]

Hello! I'm trying to build a sensor using ESP32-H2 with Thread. I have the SkyConnect with Silicon Labs Multiprotocol installed on my HA. I'm trying to get HA to recognize my ESP, but can't quite get there. I gathered Thread network info (under Integrations/Thread, Configure, and under Preferred Network clicking on ), i.e. Network name, Channel, Pan id, Extended Pan id. ESP32 config also asks for OpenThread network key and OpenThread mesh local prefix, format <address>/<plen>, not sure if they are required or where to find these.
Also, I noticed that in the Silicon Labs Multiprotocol HA logs:

otbr-agent[318]: .... [W] Mle-----------: Failed to process UDP: Security
otbr-agent[318]: .... [W] Mle-----------: Failed to process UDP: Security

After flashing my ESP, I get the following log:

I(1405) OPENTHREAD:[N] Mle-----------: Attach attempt 1, AnyPartition reattaching with Active Dataset
W(5553) OPENTHREAD:[W] Mle-----------: Failed to process UDP: Security
I(8013) OPENTHREAD:[N] Mle-----------: Attach attempt 1 unsuccessful, will try again in 0.275 seconds
I(8300) OPENTHREAD:[N] Mle-----------: Attach attempt 2, AnyPartition 
I(11932) OPENTHREAD:[N] Mle-----------: Attach attempt 2 unsuccessful, will try again in 0.539 seconds

Any thoughts? or if that should be asked somewhere else?

[sage ice]

any smart wall switches that support matter and thread?

[spring bramble]

There have been a few announced but as far as I know none of them actually available in stores

[digital salmon]

I don’t know if this list is complete:

1. The EVE wall switch will get the Matter over Thread update in the future (at the moment it’s HomeKit over Thread): https://www.evehome.com/en/eve-light-switch
2. Nanoleaf Sense Controls are not launched: https://nanoleaf.me/en-US/products/nanoleaf-sense-plus-controls/
3. TUO Smart Button (I read that it doesn’t work reliable): https://findtuo.com/

[spring bramble]

Ah yeah, the TUO Smart Button can be considered a wall switch although we've heard some reports that its a bit unstable but that might have been just early firmware versions. I believe its only available in the US though.

[digital salmon]

If you are willing to spend some money you can choose shipping options from a worldwide list of countries in the shopping cart.

[inner torrent]

Invoelli also stated they're going to release a matter over thread version of their blue switches, slated for February

[ionic plaza]

almost the amount of the button itself to ship to my region haha, but it does have an unique design

[ionic plaza]

Wemo supports thread too but they have killed the plan for matter upgrades

[vapid shell]

I have 2 wemo stages, I hate them.

The first one shipped with the wrong pairing code

Luckily I managed to dump the real one out the NFC chip

They are both flakey as hell

[digital salmon]

I am unsure about Inovelli. I think it’s not available in Europe. At least I never registered their equipment as an available option.

[inner torrent]

Yes 120V only so inovelli is just US

[bronze fog]

@spring bramble The Tuo CEO is calling me in a bit to discuss his new Matter 1.1 firmware version for the button.

[simple stag]

If I run Home Assitant in a docker (core only) the Skyconnect dongle is useless for me for creating a Thread network, is that right?

seeing some old mention that this only works in HA OS, wanted to double check that hasn't changed

[inner torrent]

Correct it's only supported on HAOS. There's some more info in the pinned messages in #matter-archived

[simple stag]

thank you

[twin vine]

their products, are weird thats for sure

not quite sure what market they are truing to get into

they sell a light for better sleep? hmmmm

[bronze fog]

@quiet stirrup Sam gave me a new firmware for the button...big improvement in pairing speed. It's built on the 1.1 matter SDK. He will have a matter 1.2 build in a few weeks.

A light? no...they only have button, contact sensor

[twin vine]

wait maybe im looking at something else 🤣

[bronze fog]

Smart lock in December

[twin vine]

https://www.thetuolife.com/

[bronze fog]

no no

[twin vine]

LOL

[bronze fog]

https://findtuo.com

[twin vine]

ah gotcha

holy shit, they charge 30 US bucks delivery to au 🤣

[bronze fog]

hey @quiet stirrup How do I trigger automations for a matter button? I'm having issues finding the right thing that shows me button presses

[twin vine]

Add an automation. Click “Add trigger” and then select “device” from the popup. For the device, select the device that you are talking about. Then the next drop down, trigger, should show you the options for that device - button 1 short press, etc…

try that?

[bronze fog]

nope...I only see "tuo smart button batter level changes"

as I recall matter buttons are events ...or something like that and you need to do something odd for button presses

it was convoluted how to get the button press events to trigger and it was too long ago that I forgot

[twin vine]

someone seems to have made an issue, honestly ive forgotten as well 🤣,
https://github.com/home-assistant/core/issues/103144

[half bluff]

Tell Sam to make an apartment friendly smart lock with matter over thread and he will rake in dough

[bronze fog]

@half bluff Will do. Sam doesn't know anything about Home Assistant and he asked me if I'd walk him through the whole setup. I agreed.

[worn plinth]

i've got two tuo buttons - they work great, actually!

battery on one died pretty quick but i'm not sure if that was just a bum battery or a pattern

[craggy hazel]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how to pair a thread bulb to my HA Yellow. I have Silicon Labs Multiprotocol set up and OpenThreadBorderRouteron a fresh factory reset install.

[craggy hazel]

When I plugin the device, my phone tries to figure out how to pair it. I tell it to use Home Assistant and it tells "Your device requires a Thread border router".

[digital salmon]

How to acquire the manufacturers to use Home Assistant. 😃

This reminds me of the 2023.11 release article:

Interesting fact: Did you know that Home Assistant is used as a test platform by many device manufacturers? This potentially means that devices will be implemented and tested on the Home Assistant Matter controller before others; cool!

Source: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/11/01/release-202311/#matter-12-is-here

[craggy hazel]

The NanoLeaf app does find my boarder router. But when when trying to pair to matter, it just gives up.

[digital salmon]

Do you use an Apple or on Android phone? Do you have any other Thread Border Routers? If you do not have another Thread Border Router you need an Android phone.

[craggy hazel]

Yes. I have an android phone. No other boarder routers

[digital salmon]

Ok, that should work, even though it’s considered experimental by the devs here. But I can’t help you with this kind of setup. I am an Apple user with two AppleTVs as the Thread Border Router.

[craggy hazel]

when I plug in the device, it askes if I want to pair it, askes if I want to use Home or "other", in Other is just Home Assistant, it connects, gathers Matter cred, then says I don't have a border router.

[digital salmon]

Ok, someone else has to help you.

[spring bramble]

See the Matter channel and especially the pinned topics. First of all you're running Multi-PAN which is experimental and a bit unstable. Second of all, using HA as Border router is not exactly a clean paved path now as a lot can still go wrong, we're still working hard to optimize it. That said, if you use a recent Android phone with the LATEST Android Companion App for HA and you have a Google account logge din on your phone as wel as Google Home app installed, it SHOULD work.

[inner torrent]

In addition to the advice above regarding hardware setup, ignore the prompt that comes up and instead open the HA companion app and try to add through there or add through the NL app (you can add to both HA and NL, order doesn't matter)

Also NL pairing window is kinda short so you might need to reset if the pairing window times out before you can add it

[craggy hazel]

What do I do to pair them directly on the HA app?

[craggy hazel]

The NanoLeaf app just says "matter pairing window closed for security" then it tells me to turn it off and turn it back on again Wait 30 seconds. I've done that and it still says pairing window closed.
Trying to pair it with an Android phone using the pop-up just says that my border router needs to be set up.
I don't see where in the companion app I'm supposed to add a thread device?

[fading harness]

Has anyone tried out the Onvis Thread remote? https://www.onvistech.com/product_details/HS2.html

[vapid shell]

It’s HomeKit. You should be aware that HomeKit over thread kind of works, but doesn’t have a lot of resources allocated to it.

[spare sphinx]

what's the best solution for me to join my Yellow to my HomeKit thread network these days? there are threads on the community forums saying I can use a nanoleaf bulb and their app, but I don't have a nanoleaf bulb

wanna increase range by letting my HomePod minis act as repeaters

[vapid shell]

Ideally you’d use the HomePod minis only

The HomePods have TREL which lets them mesh over WiFi as well as thread. So much more capacity for thread traffic. And avoids signal dead spots.

Yellow doesn’t yet, and there’s no way to choose which route Linux ipv6 traffic is going, so you end up making the mesh worse.

[spare sphinx]

Yeah someone mentioned that they had done it but then undid it because it made it worse

[vapid shell]

Also (as per pinned posts in #matter-archived from the maintainer) the HomePods are the current preferred way to do Brs

Skyconnect (and hence yellow) is more experimental and multipan especially is crashy atm

[spare sphinx]

So basically disable thread on the yellow then?

[vapid shell]

If that’s an option

[spare sphinx]

I mean, I want HA to be able to speak to Thread devices

[vapid shell]

Yeah of course

It doesn’t need a thread radio to do that

[spare sphinx]

If that's still possible without using the Yellows own Thread radio then that's fine to me

[vapid shell]

do you have only matter devices? Or some homekit

Any matter devices you set up with iOS are probably using the HomePods and not the yellow anyway

Homekit over thread would need re-pairing

[spare sphinx]

I have one matter-only device, an Eve Energy

but another three Eve Thermo that are currently HomeKit over thread, but will be receiving new Matter firmware this month they say

those I'd love to have HA control instead of HomeKit

currently I only have Zigbee devices joined to the Yellow

[vapid shell]

I’ve had my Eve Thermo in HA for years lol

[spare sphinx]

hehe, I get I can do that, I'm just telling you I haven't

[vapid shell]

So the eve energy is probably connected to the HomePods and not the yellow

The matter commissioning process uses the thread network from your phone and there’s no way to sync the yellow network key to iOS

[spare sphinx]

and now I feel like I may as well wait for the Matter firmware to Matterialise so I don't have to jump through hoops to upgrade

[vapid shell]

I feel ya

[spare sphinx]

huh, is that why I've never been able to join the Energy to the HA

[vapid shell]

I originally used an Eve extend

Then HomeKit over Bluetooth

Then thread

Actually gone back to Bluetooth for the thermos because it’s more reliable than thread for me

[spare sphinx]

does my iPhone 14 Pro even have a thread radio? it's advertised on the tech specs of the 15 Pro, but not the 14 Pro iirc

[vapid shell]

No

The HomePods have thread radios

And give all your matter devices ipv6 addresses and announce them to your wifi

So in theory any device on your wifi can use them

I can ping my thread devices from my desktop

[spare sphinx]

ah, yeah the HA is in a different VLAN

[vapid shell]

Right

[spare sphinx]

that's probably the reason then

[vapid shell]

Read the pinned matter posts

[spare sphinx]

will do

[vapid shell]

Your phone, HomePods and ha need to be on the same vlan