#thread-archived

1 messages Ā· Page 5 of 1

spring bramble
#

We got the Thread Entitlement indeed after asking it a couple of times šŸ˜‰
But now it needs to be implemented in the iOS app

spice imp
spring bramble
#

correct

bronze fog
#

@spring bramble Beyond the entitlement and updated iOS app, isn't more work needed for Skyconnect to work with multiple OTBRs? What else is needed (if anything) for HA/Skyconnect to join an Apple thread network and directly control Matter devices that were provisioned via Apple Home and act as a OTBR?

sick swan
#

Thanks to the clear abstraction of Thread and Matter/HomeKit no more communication is needed. Once the Thread credentials are shared, and both OTBR run on the same credentials, IPv6 along with RIO will make sure that the Matter/HomeKit packets find the way to the Thread device.

#

That is the theory anyways. Unfortunatly at times this fails for various reasons, but bug slowly get worked out.

boreal crescent
#

In theory you don't even need Thread credentials to control a Matter device already on the network, right? Network layer is separate from application layer

sick swan
#

Yeah Thread credentials are only required at first commissioning/pairing

bronze fog
#

@sick swan Cool..so if I understand it correctly, whenever the HA iOS apps gets updated with the thread secrets entitlement, the Skyconnect will join the Apple thread network and HA can send packets directly to matter devices? And multiple OTBRs isn't a problem?

#

Or is getting the physical Skyconnect devices 'joined' to the apple thread network a separate issue?

sick swan
#

Yes, at least that is the theory. The problem is that these type of setups didn't really got real world testing. I'd expect problems for the first couple of months.

#

Btw, you can do this with Google Thread networks already, I just did that last week

boreal crescent
#

It will be 'interesting' to see if there are differences for Nest Hubs with and without Fuchsia...

sick swan
#

For me Nest Hub (2nd Gen) doesn't work nicely lately. I have problems with Eve devices essentially stop working immeaditly šŸ˜°

normal arch
#

I have the same setup as above, no issues but also no Eve devices

digital salmon
#

Hi, why do I see 3 available Thread networks on my OTBR web interface, even though I only have one?

#

How I can I post a picture to show what I mean?

vapid shell
#

it likely knows the credentials for 3

#

but only one is active

#

you'll have to upload it to a third party image hosting site unfortunately

digital salmon
#

They all have the same PAN ID.

vapid shell
#

have you ever used the "repair" feature?

digital salmon
#

How did @sick swan post the picture?

vapid shell
#

perks for devs

digital salmon
#

No the Tread network is my Apple Thread network.

vapid shell
#

to me that looks like its found 3 BRs?

sick swan
#

Again: The OTBR Web Interface is really a dev tool, very buggy and not reallyi recommended to use. It does bad/wrong stuff at times, and is missleading.

digital salmon
#

I only have one active Apple Thread Border Router (AppleTV 4K).

vapid shell
#

the OTBR web ui isn't really meant to be a thing, even upstream, right?

sick swan
#

Yeah, upstream was even considering dropping it I think.

#

I'd approve such a PR šŸ˜…

vapid shell
#

yeah

digital salmon
#

But, if I look at the discovery app, I also see all Matter over Thread devices 3 times.

sick swan
#

Discovery app?

digital salmon
#

mDNS / Bonjour Browser

sick swan
#

What Matter Thread devices do you have?

digital salmon
#

11 EVE Energy
7 EVE D&W
1 EVE Motion
2 Nanoleaf E27

#

This is what I mean: https://imgur.com/a/h9VZqt1

Until some days ago, I had every device that was paired to Home Assistant with 3 entries. Now some devices have 4 entries. I think I have to analyze it.

  • entries starting with 46ABF7... 18
  • entries starting with 56C9B2... 22 (1 for every device plus my AppleTV TBR)
  • entries starting with A3675E... 11
  • entries starting with F32D33... 21 (1 for my devices without my Apple TV)

But why is this the case? Is it a normal behavior?

spice imp
#

Is the "ExtAddress" found under the diagnostics clusters of matter (IEEE 802.15.4 extended address) supposed to be the same as the hardware mac address?

#

When i look at my diagostics and compare the hardware address ("0/51/1") Its different than the extAddress in the diagnostics cluster("0/53/7")

digital salmon
spice imp
#

While its the extaddress shown on the OTBR webinterface actually matches my "hardware" address

digital salmon
#

OK, but when you look at my last pics from the Flame browser, I see that the hardware address doesn't match the extended address

spice imp
#

Yeah, i think its a bug in the conversation from base64 to decimal numbers.

digital salmon
#

Where is the bug in your opinion? Both mDNS browsers show the same heavior.

sick swan
digital salmon
#

My devices are shared with home assistant only.

sick swan
#

How did you on-board them? Might be the temporary onboarding fabric id of Google/Apple

digital salmon
#

I onboarded them as usual to Apple Home and afterwards I shared them to Home Assistant via a specific pairing code generated by the Apple Home app.

spice imp
digital salmon
#

I also was in contact to the EVE support because of this. It didn't normal to me. They told me to reset my AppleTV. I did that, but it didn't help.

digital salmon
#

When I install the Matter addon the issue is fixed?

sick swan
spice imp
sick swan
#

In general, having mDNS service annoucments per Fabric is by design, that is intended.

digital salmon
sick swan
#

I am guessing that his lead to recreation of the fabric, but I am not sure

#

I am not familiar with the Apple implementation of Matter...

digital salmon
# sick swan Probably by this?

No, that was maybe one month ago. This is definitiley a new behavior. I see this for the first time. I often looked at the mDNS browser the months/weeks.

#

Any idea how to find out which device has which IPv6 address?

sick swan
#

Maybe multiple users? Or Apple does a roll-over (recreate a new fabric) every once in a blue moon for security resons? Or they just migrated over to a new fabric for some other reason? Idk

#

Pure speculations šŸ™‚

#

If you really want to know, you need to check what vendors these other clusters are. Then maybe factory reset a device, add it again to the flow, and see which fabrics that device is part of.

#

Then monitor..

digital salmon
sick swan
#

All I can say it is not HA. Our current implementation assigns node ids monotonically increasing... With that, you can easily spot the mDNS annoucments generated by the Home Assistant fabrics šŸ˜‡

digital salmon
#

Good to know! Thanks šŸ˜‰

digital salmon
spice imp
digital salmon
#

OK, I was not sure about your statement. Thanks anyway

robust raptor
#

I just got my HAY and have two current gen appletvs. Is it possible to have all three devices on the same thread network? How do I set if up if so?

quiet stirrup
#

Nope, apple thread credentials are private (at the moment), the team have received acceptance/entitlement so itā€™s just a matter of time until itā€™s implemented within the app

quaint osprey
serene prawnBOT
#

@latent yarrow I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

šŸ“Ž message.txt
latent yarrow
#

^ that's HASS supervised on Odroid N2+.

spice imp
#

What version of HASS are you using?

latent yarrow
#

The latest, 2023.6.0. Add-on version 2.1.0.

spice imp
#

Sorry, i meant the OS

latent yarrow
#

Debian Bullseye.

#

Kernel 6.1.29.

spice imp
#

I mean the Home Assistant os version

latent yarrow
#

It's not HASSOS, it's HASS Supervised.

spice imp
#

Ahhh, they made a few fixes on the OS side to get Matter and the Thread OTBR running correctly. Im not sure of thats the cause of your error, but might cause you other problems

latent yarrow
#

Hm, can you point me to those fixes? Maybe I could somehow replicate those...

spice imp
#

There is a bit about it here

#

I dont think there is a complete list right now though.

spice imp
latent yarrow
#

Without firewall it fails slightly differently:

otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.277 [I] BorderRouter--: Start evaluating routing policy, scheduled in 2428 milliseconds
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.277 [I] NetDataPublshr: DNS/SRP service (state:Adding) in netdata - total:0, preferred:0, desired:2
ipset v7.10: The set with the given name does not exist
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [I] Platform------: Execute command `ipset flush otbr-ingress-allow-dst-swap` = 256
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [I] Platform------: Got an error when executing command `ipset flush otbr-ingress-allow-dst-swap`: `Resource temporarily unavailable`
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [W] Platform------: Failed to update ipsets: Failed
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [I] Notifier------: StateChanged (0x02000001) [Ip6+ BbrState]
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [I] Bbr-----------: Backbone TMF subscribes ff32:40:fd5d:95f9:728c:3ace:0:3: OK
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [I] BbrManager----: Start Backbone TMF agent: OK
otbr-agent[454]: 00:00:08.284 [C] Platform------: InitMulticastRouterSock() at multicast_routing.cpp:225: Protocol not available
[15:08:19:956024] Info : Endpoint socket #12: Client disconnected. 1 connections
[15:08:19:997725] Info : Client disconnected
[15:08:20] INFO: otbr-agent ended with exit code 5 (signal 0)...
[15:08:20] INFO: OTBR firewall teardown completed.
#

There are a few of those ipset v7.10: The set with the given name does not exist errors, in fact.

#

Kinda weird: why would it run "ipset flush otbr-ingress-allow-dst-swap" if firewall is off?

spice imp
#

Im not sure. Have you ever had it running or is this the first time?

#

I honestly dont know enough about this and how the interaction between a container and the host works with network host enabled.

latent yarrow
#

Nope, never had it running.

spice imp
#

But i think you can just ignore the ipset error.

#

Have you enabled debug logging?

latent yarrow
#

Yes, the logs above are with debug.

#

In fact, InitMulticastRouterSock() at multicast_routing.cpp:225: Protocol not available is probably the root cause here (that is, without firewall).

spice imp
#

Maybe enabling these options fixes it then

latent yarrow
#

# CONFIG_IPV6_MROUTE is not set
I think that's the problem. Gotta change that and try again.

latent yarrow
#

Firewall still doesn't work though. But at least it starts, and seems to work.

tame sierra
#

I think the answer is no but is there anyway to present google home joined thread devices to home assistant?

spice imp
#

Has someone had single devices that went offline until the boarder router is restarted? Im pinging my devices every 2 seconds.

normal arch
#

@tame sierra yes, if you join your ha+thread instance to google home via a radio

tame sierra
#

So would need to have a ha thread network and Google and it would bridge between and things like my thread bulbs would show up in ha?

normal arch
#

well, that is how I'm doing it

#

it won't bridge automatically I don't think, but if you have the network key for the google home thread network, then you can join it

#

then the devices should appear as their respective integration types in HA, ie. homekit controller

tame sierra
#

Nice. Any tips on getting the key?

normal arch
#

the nanoleaf android app gave me the key, I don't think it does anymore

#

surely there is a better way to do it, someone might chime in

quiet stirrup
#

yeah, it will be the same case for IOS, but i feel when that comes out, the instructions for how specifically to do it will be a ton clearer

tame sierra
#

Was able to get it done with out a radio by installing matter integration and enable that in HA then copy the matter code from the device in Google home and pair it to HA

#

It uses Googles thread routers to send the commands

quiet stirrup
#

Yes, thatā€™s how it works normally, itā€™s just that having it all in one ā€œnetworkā€ is typically better

spice imp
#

Hey, im currently having problems with some eve plugs that aren't pingable until i restart my boarder router addon. I have tried unplugging them, but it doesn't help. (Im pinging every device on the network every 2 seconds)
One of the errors i can see in the addon logs is "no route".
Im running:
Home Assistant 2023.6.1
OS: 10.2
OTBR_ADDON: 2.1.0
nrf52840

It only happens to devices that have a "weak" connection. Has someone seen something similar?

sick swan
#

One of the errors i can see in the addon logs is "no route".
Is there more to that? Does it relate to when you are pinging or just appears randomly?

#

It only happens to devices that have a "weak" connection. Has someone seen something similar?
What do you mean by weak? In terms of RF? How do you know?

#

Do you have more than one BR?

quiet stirrup
#

And what are the BRā€™s?

spice imp
spice imp
spice imp
spice imp
sick swan
spice imp
#

Its NoRoute

sick swan
#

I see.

quiet stirrup
#

its only done 4 times,

sick swan
#

Hm, so I guess that means the BR can't find a route on mesh level.

#

So restarting helps? And then after a while it stops working again? What is the time frame between working and stops working?

spice imp
#

The device im having problems with ends with the ip: 2127:dab7:97d6:e33d

spice imp
quiet stirrup
#

seems to be passing a route most of the time if im not mistaken?

#

ah wait, what is the device?

spice imp
sick swan
spice imp
#

This is another device that was offline until i restarted the br this morning

quiet stirrup
#

if its the eve energy, is it on firmware version 3.1 or 3.2

spice imp
#

its on 3.2

#

i have tried to unplug it and put it back in

#

but it doesn't help

quiet stirrup
#

it connected to apple home?

spice imp
#

Nope, just to HA. I think its something in the BR tbh. Im not sure what it could be though.

sick swan
#

What type of Thread devices are in your mesh other than those Eve plugs?

spice imp
#

6 eveplugs + 5 eve door and windows

sick swan
#

Hm, so a rather nice homogenous setup, interesting.

#

You have all the devices on Eve's 3.2 firmware?

spice imp
#

Im on a coperate network though. But i have tried putting up my own router with nat to isolate it.

#

Yes all are updated.

sick swan
#

And you are pinging from the HAOS shell which is running the add-on rihgt? So that rules out IPv6 routing issues essentially šŸ¤”

spice imp
#
  • platform: ping
    host: "fd06:3b20:9ebf:0001:2127:dab7:97d6:e33d"
    name: "Power Space Ping"
    count: 1
    scan_interval: 2
#

this is my pinging entity

sick swan
#

The only reason I could think of is if the OTBR decides to change the OMR prefix for some reason.

#

But then all the devices should stop working

#

What would be interesting is to monitor the Mesh topology a bit. You can enable the Web interface to see a visualization of it.

spice imp
#

Yeah, i just think its really strange. I could imagine that it has something to do with the device dropping packages at the wrong time and the BR thinking its in the wrong state.

spice imp
sick swan
spice imp
#

Yeah, i think i will try to get some log entries from when the devices goes offline and see if there is more to see

worn cave
#

Hi, I was wondering what entities does the Eve Weather expose when connected with HomeKit controller

vapid shell
#

We donā€™t expose the weather trend value for sure, though it looks like we could

stoic whale
#

Anyone run into an issue where devices meshing through another node don't like to connect? I have a wemo thread smart plug that I'm using as a range extender for my smartwings blinds. Every time I restart OTBR, the blinds that are going through the smart plug (as per the OTBR interface) show as unavailable, but unplugging the smart plug and plugging it back in will cause the other blinds to start responding again

rapid umbra
#

Anyone elseā€™s OTBR having issues? Mineā€™s been down ever since I upgraded to 2023.6.1 / Silabs Multi-protocol 2.2

#

Power cycled twice already no luck. Thinking about reverting back to see if it fixes things

sick swan
#

I've tested the SiLabs Multiprotocol add-on through the weekend, and on Monday at least things seemed to be still working on my test environment.

#

However, I just see that my Thread device got offline too actually šŸ™ˆ

rapid umbra
#

I think it was the multiprotocol update that broke things because I recall the 2023.6.1 upgrade going smoothly

#

I did update both yesterday though and not exactly sure when the issue began

#

Definitely one of those 2 being the culprit though

sick swan
#

Can you check the add-on logs? Anything in there?

rapid umbra
#

yeah looks like somethings definitely up

#

[10:22:55:563758] *** ASSERT *** : FATAL in function 'protocol_version_check' in file /usr/src/cpc-daemon/server_core/server_core.c at line #722 : Secondary Protocol v3 doesn't match CPCd Protocol v4
[10:22:56:565317] Info : Daemon exiting with status EXIT_FAILURE

sick swan
#

Do you have "Automatically flash firmware" active?

#

What RF hardware are you using?

rapid umbra
#

Skyconnect

#

checking the addon settings now

#

auto flash firmware is off

#

115200 Baud Rate, Hardware Flow control enabled, Enable OTBR, Enable OTBR firewall

#

everything else is disabled

sick swan
#

Ok, so you have to turn it on and restart the add-on, that should fix the issue in your case.

rapid umbra
#

lets give it a shot

#

that did the trick, thanks a ton

spice imp
#

Does hardware flow actually change anything?

#

Also isnā€™t it better to go a bit higher than 115200 for the baud rate, so itā€™s not a limiting factor?

rapid umbra
#

I don't recall messing with those settings but I must've at some point if the automatically flash firmware got disabled

#

Does anyone know what the optimal settings are for skyconnect? like can I just crank the baud rate all the way up?

spice imp
rapid umbra
#

According to these logs apparently the universal_silabs_flasher runs at 460800

sick swan
#

Yeah when firmware flashing is enabled, we know the baudrate of the firmware and set it to 460800. Setting the baudrate is only really necessary when using hardware with alternative firmware.

#

460800 should be really fast enough for all purposes. The bitrate of the underlying Zigbee/Thread RF link is 250kBit only, so we are well beyond that.

rapid umbra
#

Another general question, Is there a thread-only firmware that we can flash thru HAOS?

#

or do I need to unplug the skyconnect, bring it to my main PC and flash it there

#

I have no need for the Zigbee side of the multi-protocol firmware. I'm just using this skyconnect for thread only

spice imp
sick swan
#

Make sure to uninstall the SiLabs Multiprotocol one first.

sick swan
rapid umbra
spice imp
rapid umbra
#

Worked like a charm, thanks for all the help

rapid umbra
worn cave
vapid shell
#

Itā€™s not really possible

rapid umbra
#

What I really want is a way to toggle between fahrenheit/celsius on the display

#

when connected via apple thread you're able to change this setting in the eve app

vapid shell
#

Yeah thatā€™s on my todo list

rapid umbra
#

but when connected to HA there's no way of changing it so it's always on C

vapid shell
#

Itā€™s easy Iā€™m just a busy boy

worn cave
#

Is the eve weather a good product?

rapid umbra
#

Yeah I really like it. right now seeing a 7 degree difference between the reported weather forcast and what the eve weather shows

#

I have the temp exposed back to apple home as well so I can ask siri what the temp is in the backyard to get the accurate reading

#

especially helpful with how shitty apple weather service has been recently

#

plus its nice to be able to just glance at the display when you're outside

worn cave
#

Is the humidity sensor in it good?

rapid umbra
#

I havent tested it against other sensors side by side in the same conditions

#

but right now eve weather is showing 58% humidity compared to 80% reported in the weather forcast

#

and it feels way closer to 58% than 80% outside right now so I'd say it's pretty accurate

#

in general you will get much more accurate results than what the regular weather forcast services provide

#

If you already have a decent size thread network built out the range on sensor is quite far and the battery lasts reasonably long. The build quality on the sensor itself is also heavy duty and has already survived 2 winters for me

worn cave
#

HomePod minis work as thread boarder routers right?

rapid umbra
#

yeah but you can't use them in the home assistant thread network yet currently

worn cave
#

Ah

rapid umbra
#

I've got a skyconnect stick as my border router currently with 5 nanoleaf bulbs to extend the range

worn cave
#

Other than the skyconnect and the nest stuff is there any other TBR that work with home assistant

rapid umbra
#

I know some of the Amazon Echo's got updated for TBR support but I don't know if you can use them as your BR for home assistant yet

#

I'm holding out hope that the IOS companion app will get updated soon to support sharing the Apple Thread key with home assistant

#

seems like its only a matter of time

vapid shell
# worn cave Ah

Whilst itā€™s technically true you canā€™t use HomePods in a ha thread network, I wanted to clarify that you can use the HomePod thread network with ha.

#

There are people with 10 HomePods and no SkyConnect and itā€™s all good

worn cave
#

Oh ok

vapid shell
#

Ha only needs to know the thread key if it is responsible for uploading the thread key to the device. For homekit_controller you just pair it to iOS first and let iPhone upload the key, then unpair it and add it to HA. It remembers the thread key.

worn cave
#

Oh ok

vapid shell
#

It can be a little fiddly with battery powered eve devices, for my eve thermo I actually turn my HomePods off after getting thread working and unpair over Bluetooth, this seems to work around eve bugs.

worn cave
#

How does threads range compare to zigbee

rapid umbra
#

pretty much the same, both are 2.4ghz

spice imp
#

Does someone here know if the antenna of the skyconnect dongle is better than the one of a nRF52840-Dongle?

digital salmon
#

There are new firmware updates for EVE Thermo, EVE Room, EVE Wether and EVE Waterleak.

#

Firmware version 2.1.3

#

Release notes: ā€˜Overall improvementsā€˜.

#

I am not at home. Canā€™t test it. What is ā€˜Overall improvementsā€˜? šŸ™ƒšŸ˜ƒ

quiet stirrup
#

intresting, maybe its laying the foundations for the matter update later on

vapid shell
#

Might just be thread fixes for the existing hap over thread

proven root
#

Hey there, not sure if this is the right place, Iā€™m new to discord. I just updated my home assistant to 2023.6.2 and all 18 of my Nanoleaf thread bulbs have disconnected and wonā€™t reconnect to it, even after rolling back the update. Anybody have a clue as to whatā€™s going on? Iā€™ve had a really hard time with these bulbs and HA, I have to reboot HA several times a day just to keep it connected to them allā€¦

quiet stirrup
proven root
#

@quiet stirrup Iā€™m using them over HomeKit controller, the Nanoleaf integration doesnā€™t support them, and I canā€™t seem to connect them to my SkyConnectā€¦ Although they are finally coming back online now, mostlyā€¦ Theyā€™re still the bane of my existence though, even though they work great when not in HA

quiet stirrup
#

Yep cool just checking, honestly doing a cold reboot of whatever HA is running in normally fixes it for me

rare matrix
#

hi all, i would like to know your thoughts on the following:

(preliminary:) currently I am running HA in a HAOS VM plus a Rpi4b with HAOS as a physical satellite to host the RF hardware (currently Slaesh Z2M USB stick and a Zwave USB stick with Zwave2M, for simplicity as HAOS addons that connect per MQTT to the main HAOS with Mosquitto addon). I will abandon Zwave. I am thinking about going away from using the Rpi as a satellite and replacing that with a SLZB-06 coordinator. At the same time I know that Matter is upcoming and then I might need an Rpi as USB host again for that.

(1) Are there thread adapters already available for Matter?

(2) Would it be best to run Zigbee and thread as standalone ethernet adapters, or should I stay with my current setup with a satellite Rpi hosting USB adapters for Zigbee and thread?

vapid shell
#

there are already dongles you can use. the main one for integration with HA is SkyConnect. if you plug a SkyConnect into HAOS it will configure itself to route ipv6 packets from your HAOS's network to the thread network

#

you can also run one (or more) "satellite" pi's with one or more USB SkyConnect, then they act as ivp6 router between your network and the thread network. your HA can then "discover" stuff on the LAN with zeroconf without any more config.

#

but lots of early adopters in here are using their Apple HomePod's or Amazon/Google equivalents

#

e.g. we have people with 10 "satellite" homepods, they each publish an ipv6 route to the thread mesh

#

then if you unplug one, theres still 9 more ways for your HA instance to reach the mesh

#

(2) personally i'd keep my thread and zigbee network seperate so i can follow best practice for them both. e.g. i believe the physical position of the zigbee coordinator is somewhat important to get a stable mesh. thats less true with a multi-BR thread setup, especially in the future when we have TREL which allows it to use your ethernet and wifi to make up for problems (partitions/splits) with your mesh. with thread you should be able to keep your satellite and then add more BR's as/if needed.

rare ibex
#

I posted a new rcp build for the cc2652 works on my TubesZB cc2652 products and should be compatible with anything that uses the z-stack launchpad variant like the sonoff-p. Tested and work with the otbr addon- it starts. baudrate is 115200 and no hardwareflow. https://github.com/tube0013/tube_gateways/tree/main/openthread_boarder_router_fw. The examples form the openthread repo https://github.com/openthread/ot-cc13x2-cc26x2 build and run with some modification to the defined pins but don't appear to be updated for thread greater than 1.1 - otbr addon throws this error at startup. RCP is missing required capabilities: tx-security tx-timing

#

the build I posted and tested successfully is from the TI SDK 7.10.01.24 (released yesterday)

rare matrix
normal arch
#

@tube good work, shame about the thread version

rare ibex
#

Yeah. Iā€™ve been watching a pr from silabs to land the multi protocol in mainline openthread. Which I am assuming would allow any radio to use it.

summer vessel
#

Hi, can I pair a Thread device that is in homekit to Home Assistant? I don't ahve any other border router than an Apple TV and a homepod mini.

#

This is confusing me a little bit; I need to unpair the device from homekit, but then how does it connect to home assistant?

#

Do I need a Thread antenna? Or does it connect over wifi?

spice imp
#

Thread -> thread boarder router (HomePod and Apple TV) -> Lan -> HomeAssistant

#

Thatā€™s basically how it works

summer vessel
#

Okay, unpaired it and it popped up in Home assistant

#

But then when I tried to add it

#

It gave me an unknown error

#

And the logs show a timeout šŸ˜¦

serene prawnBOT
#

@summer vessel I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

šŸ“Ž message.txt
spice imp
#

What kind of router do you have?

summer vessel
#

HomePod mini

stoic whale
#

why not go via the matter integration?

spice imp
#

Internet router

spice imp
summer vessel
#

I mean it can be

spice imp
#

But not at the moment

summer vessel
#

Itā€™s got a matter upgrade thing in the Eve settings

#

Like ā€œUpgrade the device to matterā€

#

And my router is Unify

#

Itā€™s an Eve contact sensor btw

#

Do I need specific hardware for matter ?

spice imp
#

No

#

Have you played a lot around with the settings on UniFi?

#

And how is your home assistant setup? Is it the os or docker?

summer vessel
#

Ok gonna try upgrading to matter

spice imp
#

Might not be worth it unless you really need it

vapid shell
# summer vessel Ok gonna try upgrading to matter

Timeout error usually indicative of network problems so matter upgrade unlikely to help, at least permanently. Iā€™m the homekit maintainer so can help you if you havenā€™t upgraded. Canā€™t if you have.

#

If it works with iOS but not HA first port of call is an end to end check of ipv6 connectivity. Thinks like vlans will break thread. And if you arenā€™t running HAOS then thread wonā€™t work out of the box. Especially not for multi br.

soft stream
#

Best thread light switch on the market? Looking at getting fan speed switches too

bronze fog
#

@soft stream I haven't seen any Thread/Matter light switches come out. I'm waiting on those too to replace all my z-wave switches.

tight pilot
#

Inovelli blue will be upgradable

soft stream
#

Oh I didnā€™t realize there werenā€™t any on the market yet

bronze fog
# soft stream Oh I didnā€™t realize there werenā€™t any on the market yet

Thought I heard about reliability issues with that brand. A few months ago I was on their support forums, and their staff was pretty confused about thread/matter and how they are or are not related. They seem to be a tiny company so I'm skeptical they can provide a rock solid thread/matter stack since they are brand new to those technologies. Heck, Eve has had firmware issues and they are bigger and more experienced with Homekit/matter.

#

And unless a product SHIPS with a matter QR code on the product, I'm NOT remotely interested. Future upgrades may or may not ever happen, and even if they do, good luck down the road trying to keep track of the QR codes without a shipping physical sticker on the unit.

soft stream
#

Welp shucks I guess it's sit around and wait then. I'm definitely not going back to the zwave setup

neat plinth
bronze fog
#

@neat plinth But aren't they wifi? I'm only doing Matter/Thread unless there's a tech reason why thread would not work for a device (maybe a presense sensor) that needs more bandwidth....or future cameras

neat plinth
stark gate
#

Anyone has any luck integrating HA with Nanoleaf Essentials Light Strip over thread?

quiet stirrup
#

Yeah. You having issues?

vast hill
haughty shard
worldly portal
#

i have both - the wemo switches are much less stable, however they are dimmers and support no neutral

quaint osprey
#

Hey guys. On Home Assistant 2023.7 I'll be able to join on HomePods OTBR network?

#

I received an new version on testflight by Home Assistant app

toxic tree
#

Hey all. While work is being done on the companion app to share the Apple dataset TLV with the home assistant OTBR, Iā€™m looking for other ways to get the TLV from the HomePod API. canā€™t find any other open source projects working on the IOS ThreadNetwork API to be able to get the TLV, and canā€™t for the life of me get the ThreadNetwork module to import on xcode. Anyone have any clues?

worldly portal
#

I tried that too but i assume it wonā€™t import if you donā€™t get the entitlement. I made a request for the entitlement and was denied

quiet stirrup
worldly portal
#

can i just use that then? i assume the code is open source, but iiuc the entitlement is based on apple developer accounts

toxic tree
worldly portal
#

are there docs for this?

#

developer profile is in the ha open source repo?

#

or something from apple?

toxic tree
#

In the apple docs

#

^ developer entitlement profile

worldly portal
#

wtf. why didnā€™t they just respond with that

#

this must be new?

toxic tree
#

They just arenā€™t responding

#

To, like, anything

#

Thread related

worldly portal
#

Thank you for requesting the ThreadNetwork Entitlement. This API ThreadNetworkCredentials is required for developers who are building Thread Border Routers only and not apps.

Thank you
Apple Thread Network Support Team

#

june 1st

toxic tree
#

For what itā€™s worth I have no evidence the profile works, but it seems legit.

worldly portal
#

the wording on that profile implies it's a profile you have to install on the ios device for the thread network api calls to actually work

#

i assume you need some other profile/entitlement to get the actual libraries to link in xcode

quiet stirrup
quiet stirrup
#

Oh wait it would be, as it can be implemented on device, and your phone or whatever could act like a border router, makes sense now

worldly portal
#

my understanding is that the phone needs the profile since it is the interface to the apple thread network

quiet stirrup
#

Yep, seems like it

quaint osprey
worldly portal
#

once these entitlements are setup in the home assistant app, it should allow sharing the thread credentials so the ha thread network can join the apple thread network

#

the progress seems to be that the access has been granted to ha recently, however it likely will still take time to get it all working and tested before a release

still quiver
#

Hi all, how do I actually add my Google Nest products as a TBR for preferred network? its aksing for a Provide URL for the Open Thread Border Router's REST API but not sure where to obtaind this. My Nest hubs are listed under "other networks", so, is it already added?

boreal crescent
#

You need Google's Thread credentials, the only way to get those currently is to add a Matter device from the HA Android app

#

Tapping add Matter device is enough, you can exit when you see the QR code scanner and don't actually need to add a device

hoary harbor
#

Oh hey, my Apple TBRs are pulling an IPv6 prefix from my firewall

#

I still had it set up for PD from when I was trying to get OTBR working with a proper delegated global IPv6 prefix

spice imp
#

You can have multiple IPv6 addresses pr interface

hoary harbor
#

Not a problem at all--a function I was trying to get working a few months ago

#

I get a /60 from my ISP and wanted to pass through a /64 for Thread things

spice imp
#

Did you have to do something special for that?

hoary harbor
#

Yeah, it'll depend on your DHCPv6 server. I use the one built into opnsense so I just have it configured there

spice imp
#

Yeah okay, I wish I could play with that, but Iā€™m bound to a shitty isp

hoary harbor
#

Could always use Hurricane Electric

#

I used them for all my IPv6 stuff prior to getting an ISP with native support

spice imp
#

And my landlord took some cartel deal for all their buildings so I canā€™t change šŸ« 

hoary harbor
#

uh oh

#

Also just 100% confirmed that the Apple TBRs are handing out IPs from the prefix they were delegated via DHCPv6-PD and all comms are working as expected

spice imp
#

Yeah, or nat64

hoary harbor
#

My Thread stuff now has proper globally routable IPv6 addresses. Which accomplishes exactly zero things from a functional perspective but is still nifty

spice imp
hoary harbor
#

Firewalled off šŸ˜‰

spice imp
#

But apple might have nat64 integrated in their boarder routers

hoary harbor
#

Oh sweet, I also got the full dataset TLV from the nanoleaf app on an old Android phone I had hanging around. So my SkyConnect is now part of my Apple Thread network

#

Which is probably going to break spectactularly somehow since Apple + third party

still quiver
visual bane
hoary harbor
visual bane
#

I wonder if I can get the nanoleaf app on my kid's fire tablet lol

hoary harbor
#

I haven't been in here in a while but that or the Matter demo app the HA team released will let you get your iOS Thread info

#

If you have a compatible esp32

#

Uncertain if other clever ideas have popped up to let you get it

half bluff
#

So I got the tlc from apple but how were you able to form the mesh or join the networks together?

#

Usually they just showed as separate border routers in HA

hoary harbor
#

I just imported the Apple TLV in the Thread addon config, made it my preferred network, then hit the three dots next to my sky connect network and clicked ā€œjoin to primaryā€ or something like that

half bluff
#

Huh... I dont think I was able to make it my preferred network but I will check again

toxic tree
half bluff
#

Sorry I got it from nanoleaf app on android

hoary harbor
#

You have to import the TLV first to make it preferred

visual bane
hoary harbor
#

I ended up not leaving my sky connect in the network since Iā€™m wary of Apple working with third party devices, even standardized

#

So let me know if yours doesnā€™t explode and maybe Iā€™ll re-add mine šŸ˜„

visual bane
#

I may not end up leaving mine either but it's nice to know we CAN connect them. For now at least haha.

shell lynx
#

question! I saw in the 2023.7 release notes on matter updates:

This means if you have a Nest Thermostat (not the E or learning ones) with the latest firmware, you can now use it directly with Home Assistant, entirely local without clouds!

sounds sick, only problem is I have a Nest E, which maybe doesn't have matter support? it does support something called Nest Weave though, which is apparently a thread-based protocol? Is that supported at all by HA with a skyconnect? If not today, is it possible for the future?

tight pilot
#

@shell lynx nothing from google. yet. They basically invented thread, which is essentially what the locks are too, but nothing yet

half bluff
spice imp
half bluff
spice imp
half bluff
#

Ok because I was thinking of doing the same but I dont want to damage my device. So it ok to experiment with?

spice imp
slate lance
#

hey guys, I'm currently figuring out about 100 different moving parts with matter and thread, and one thing that I can't find doc'd anywhere is the correct way to tie matter with thread, within HA. should it be the with the OpenThread Border Router integration, that takes an OTBR's rest API url, or just the Thread integration, which allows you to add a found Thread network "to your network"

quiet stirrup
#

What smart devices with matter do you have?

#

And what matter hubs do you have?

shy iris
#

oooo. Aqara Door and Window Sensor P2. Not going to buy it, as I'm already using zigbee, and it's more expensive, but nice to see the ecosystem expanding.

slate lance
# quiet stirrup And what matter hubs do you have?

I'm currently running HA's python matter server, so, atm, all's on the one box. only "matter" devices I have are matter-over-thread nanoleaf bulbs, but, these are all trial things. I will add more if/when I get at least this set up correctly

violet gulch
#

I saw/read somewhere that in a typical situation - HA matter/thread + Nest matter/thread + Alexa matter/thread you get multiple thread networks instead of one with multiple border routers. In fact, they said that each Alexa creates its own šŸ¤Æ thread network.

Is this still the case?

toxic tree
flint zodiac
#

25bux for the Thread version of the Aqara sensor? pitchfork

fierce dust
half bluff
fierce dust
#

I think so yes

#

its litteraly twice as long as the zigbee one

#

It did "jsut work" in HA with Matter though

worldly jackal
hoary harbor
#

What are you planning to use for thread border routers? SkyConnect? Apple TV? Other?

spring adder
spring adder
#

they aren't on a UPS though so perhaps that is a bad idea

fierce dust
#

Thread can join the Apple TV thread network as a border router right? Thread is supposed to be able to handle loss of border routers well

spring adder
hoary harbor
#

Thread is supposed to be able to handle multiple BRs well, but due to some upstream things HAOS doesn't handle them super well. It's been a few months since I dug into it but last I knew the BR via which HAOS will talk to Thread devices will flop around every time one of the BRs sends out a route advertisement

#

I've already reverted to a single BR--my SkyConnect--after both HomeKit and Matter devices became less reliable over the Apple Thread network in my house

spring adder
#

ok just fitted 4 of these sensors and connected them to two different Apple TVs, all seems to be working fine, need to work out how to get home assistant to control them now

#

unfortunate to hear about multiple BRs not working well

#

what is the best thing to do in that case?

vapid shell
#

Multi-br still can be unstable of course

#

But I think itā€™s where Linux routing picks a Br that doesnā€™t have a good mesh connection

#

Have resolved some unstable meshes by just removing appletv (in favour of HomePod)

toxic tree
#

Merging the apple thread network and sky connect OTBR did make my thread devices unstable on the HomeKit integration, but didnā€™t touch matter controlled ones.

#

@visual bane and @hoary harbor; wondering what your experience has been.

hoary harbor
#

I guess I could go behind PVE's back for multi-layer rules but meh

edgy creek
#

Anyone successfuly paired the new aqara p2 door and window sensor with sky connect multiprotocol Firmware?

mighty heath
#

Hello everyone šŸ‘‹
Are there any iOS developers that found out how to use the ThreadNetwork API with their own applications? It seems that Apple assures us that we can use ThreadNetwork API with the mobile config profile, yet for some reason I have issues with it when building / running the application on the iPhone (with developer beta enabled).
Quite similar issue to what is described in this post (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/718467?answerId=756808022#756808022).

Does anyone have any clue or if they got it working?

silver thunder
brisk matrix
#

Just to throw my experience in, my Skyconnect automatically joined my Nest network when I set it up and I haven't noticed it cause any instability from it. Side note I did have to disable the OTBR firewall for Thread devices to stay connected to Home Assistant but I had problems with devices staying connected before the skyconnect, so in that way it's actually made things better

toxic tree
#

When I initially joined the apple + sky connect it did make things unstable (thread devices disconnected from HA every few minutes). But I removed my two thread devices and re-added them by pairing them with HomeKit on iPhone first and re-pairing to HA, and they have been solid since, with the sky connect staying attached to the network

toxic tree
restive narwhal
#

@toxic tree @worldly portal its late on a sunday night so i'm looking into getting the TLV for some reason

#

yes we already have the entitlement approved from apple for our bundles

#

no i cant give you access

#

but it doesnt seem like that big of a deal to add

#

cc @quiet stirrup @quaint osprey @bronze fog @spring bramble @spice imp @vapid shell

quiet stirrup
restive narwhal
#

yeah

#

or weirdos like me who get annoyed that i have two networks going

spring bramble
#

If you know how to build iOs apps its probbaly a very small thing to add in there

restive narwhal
#

i do šŸ™‚

spring bramble
#

I was planning on looking at it myself this week as I get annoyed by it too haha

restive narwhal
#

i wrote home assistant companion before zac took it over šŸ˜›

spring bramble
#

hell yeah

#

so where do I need to send that beer to add those few lines šŸ™‚

restive narwhal
#

lets see how much i can do in the next hour

spring bramble
#

I can help you with the HA internals

#

we have all calls in palce to get those creds

restive narwhal
#

those look pretty straightforward, just gonna dupe what android is doing

spring bramble
#

and send them to the matter stack

restive narwhal
#

the only question mark for me right now is that apple doesn't call anything a TLV, so gotta figure out which field is the TLV

spring bramble
#

Yes, that is it

#

Ad the dataset is in that object

restive narwhal
#

the websocket call is thread/add_dataset_tlv with {"source": "Apple", "tlv": <data>} it appears

spring bramble
#

correct

restive narwhal
#

and there's thread/list_datasets and thread/get_dataset_tlv of course

vapid shell
#

Itā€™s also great for homekit over thread. Right now to use eg an Eve Thermo over thread with an apple br you have to pair it with iOS and then unpair it. Then pair it to HA (the first pair installs the thread creds on the device). If HA knows the creds we can do it directly from HA in one pair šŸ©·

#

If you can trigger a sync without adding a matter device thatā€™d be ace (i think manual sync is planned for android but not done, it just does it in the matter add flow?)

restive narwhal
#

afaik yes i can do that

#

it looks like android does a sync without adding a matter device already

#

or at least has the capability to

vapid shell
#

Ah nice

spring bramble
#

Yeah correct, so that way the thread network will be in sync upfront.
@boreal crescent can fill you in if you may have any questions about that.
For Android it works pretty well, besides some quirks with Google Home itself from time to time

#

So, if you could copy the behavior of Android that would we awesome šŸ‘Œ

boreal crescent
#

Android syncs Thread before adding a Matter device because unlike iOS, the app can't provide a network to use during Matter commissioning

#

The option in settings was added recently just to make debugging easier (shows result)

restive narwhal
#

wow i really forgot swift

restive narwhal
#

i got it working but cant get any creds out, looks like the store is empty but that doesnt really make sense because i have a ton of homekit stuff, right?

# 
[THREADSYNC]: Preferred network available? false
[THREADSYNC]: GOT ERROR Error Domain=ThreadCredentialsStore Code=3 "Failed to retrieve all active border router records" UserInfo={NSLocalizedDescription=Failed to retrieve all active border router records, NSUnderlyingError=0x2828b2910 {Error Domain=NSOSStatusErrorDomain Code=0 "(null)"}} Failed to retrieve all active border router records
[THREADSYNC]: GOT CREDS nil
#

might be store only, maybe they dont let us get TLV for Apple owned stuff?

#

for reference here's what my HA UI looks like

image.png
#

i'd bet money apple doesn't let you get the TLV for their stuff

#

but will let you tell the device about other networks

#

this is the only repo with any real code

spring bramble
#

Well, so at least we could tell iOS to join the OTBR network right ?

spring bramble
restive narwhal
#

sure why not

restive narwhal
restive narwhal
spring bramble
# restive narwhal sure why not

So, what exactly would the question be ?
Something like this:

We've recently received the entitlement to manage Thread credentials in our iOS app. Our goal is to make our matter controller aware of all thread networks and, if possible, join the networks either by joining iOS to an existing (OTBR) network or join the OTBR on our controller to Apple's. So far we do not yet understand how to thread the current dataset from iOS. Is there something we;re doing wrong or are you not supposed to read the current dataset at all ?

restive narwhal
#

could probably just make it even simpler

#

We have the Manage Thread Credentials entitlement but are not getting any credentials from this even though other external tooling can see a Apple owned network exists:

let threadClient = THClient()

threadClient.isPreferredNetworkAvailable { available in
    print("[THREADSYNC]: Preferred network available?", available)
}

threadClient.retrieveAllCredentials { creds, err in
    if let err = err {
        print("[THREADSYNC]: GOT ERROR", err, err.localizedDescription)
    }
    print("[THREADSYNC]: GOT CREDS", creds)
}

The output is:

[THREADSYNC]: Preferred network available? false
[THREADSYNC]: GOT ERROR Error Domain=ThreadCredentialsStore Code=3 "Failed to retrieve all active border router records" UserInfo={NSLocalizedDescription=Failed to retrieve all active border router records, NSUnderlyingError=0x283f3f5a0 {Error Domain=NSOSStatusErrorDomain Code=0 "(null)"}} Failed to retrieve all active border router records
[THREADSYNC]: GOT CREDS nil

Are we not able to get the credentials for any Apple-owned networks? We tried a demo app found on GitHub and that too is unable to find credentials for an Apple owned network

#

remember when i said make it simpler and then did the opposite? lol

spring bramble
#

hahaha

#

thanks, I'll ping them

restive narwhal
#

i'm guessing they won't be able to answer since this would be an apple internal decision

#

which is fine, we can just open a ticket with apple, we get two free per year and havent used one since 2021

spring bramble
#

I've asked them, maybe we get an answer, maybe not. Otherwise let's issue the ticket šŸ™‚

#

So far they have been very responsive and helpful (both Apple and Google) while working on the matter stack. So who knows

restive narwhal
#

okiedokie, thanks @spring bramble !

#

im going to bed

#

i pointed paulus and zac to this, they may also have thoughts in the US AM

spring bramble
#

Well, thanks to you for picking this up, great.
night!

mighty heath
#

So it looks like you canā€™t even develop locally with the iOS ThreadNetwork API without having that entitlement?

restive narwhal
#

you'd probably have to monkey around with codesign to get it working without xcode's help but i'm not sure

#

i linked another test app up above that worked for me once I set the app ID under Nabu's account

mighty heath
restive narwhal
#

you'd probably have to do manual signing yeah

#

this is classic apple behavior, we have a bunch of custom entitlements that we request shortly after they come out and there's always a 6 month-1 year period where its not properly documented and xcode is angry and we just have to trial and error our way out of it

#

when we got critical alerts entitlement originally they didnt even tell us we had it for months. i was just randomly clicking around the console one day and noticed a new field i'd never seen before to enable it

#

if you have a paid developer account you can do everyone in the world a favor and burn a TSI to get them to give you explicit documentation on how to build without the entitlement, only the mobileconfig and then publicly release those docs

worldly portal
#

i couldnā€™t even get xcode to import the libraries

#

i have a dev account that i basically never use for anything real - so willing to spend support queries. but i asked about thread already and got a denial

mighty heath
#

got the same response when applying for entitlement

#

yet they assured us that we can use the threadnetwork framework with the mobile config profile

mighty heath
worldly portal
#

the profile just lets your device use it as far as i can tell

#

hmm. maybe i need to try again though. i keep trying every couple weeks

mighty heath
#

yes but xcode doesnt let you build the app in the first place with that entitlement šŸ˜¹

slate lance
# restive narwhal this is classic apple behavior, we have a bunch of custom entitlements that we r...

I used work for a games company that Apple pushed to ABSOLUTELY ensure our games had a ready build, with the brand spanking new even more HD graphics than the HD graphics before, for the new phones coming out. it'd be a Apple marketing-> our marketing, our marketing would guarantee it, our marketing would speak to the devs, our devs would get all the latest XCode stuff, method to get the latest graphics stuff for our games as requested by Apple wouldn't be there, our devs would contact apple dev support and... "No"

quiet stirrup
#

i mean, it comes out when it does, not the end of the world. also, you can still add the creds for the otbr into the google network if you got an android

silver thunder
toxic tree
toxic tree
#

Thank you for your work @restive narwhal.

quaint osprey
young cape
#

How did people get the TLV from the Nanoleaf Android app?

half bluff
young cape
#

Is there some kind of format I need to rejig into?

half bluff
#

Just click 3 dots on home assistant thread configuration and select add tlv dataset. Then copy paste them in

#

The numbers from Nanoleaf dataset

young cape
#

Operational Dataset?

#

Error: Invalid tlvs

#

I've tried the Extended PAN ID, Network Key, Operational Dataset

young cape
half bluff
#

Where you see the home assistant border router and the Apple border routers it should say in the top right something about adding a dataset

#

Gotta make sure to copy the whole big number in the android app. Copy paste it all

young cape
#

Faaaairly sure I have :\

#

Oh, I think it worked that time

#

Thanks @half bluff , now to see if I can get matter hooked up

still quiver
#

hi all, so got the Nanoleaf Smart LED Lightstrip Matter/thread version. I was able to update the firmware of the device and the nanoleaf app see my thread border routers (4 Nest Hubs and Nest Hub Max). When I try to add the device to Google or Home Assistant....it times out at connecting to device. Any ideas what to do?

mighty heath
still quiver
#

as in remove power for 10 seconds and plug back in? I did that but I can try again

still quiver
#

Nvrm Find how to reset the device....will try that next.

still quiver
#

After resetting the device, it got further in the paring process but kept getting stuck at the connecting to home assistant...so I brought my nest hub max right beside the device and it paired up! I moved the the nest hub max back to its original location. Now the device constantly goes on and offline

#

I have 4 of the Google hubs in my home, maybe the closest is about 25 feet to 35 feet away. So this is too far?

#

I guess the point here is i need more matter devices to make a better mesh

still quiver
#

OK. I redid the pairing process again but this time I kept the Google hub within 5 feet of the device... still was going unavailable to available every 20 seconds. Weird? Something else is going on I guess.

sick swan
#

I've expierenced the same with the Google Nest Hub here with Eve devices (on latest firmware) a couple of weeks ago. For now, I decomissioned it and I am usinig OTBR only.

still quiver
#

Do you mean OTBR with Skyconnect?

sick swan
#

Yes, or the Yellow. On my production system I use the Yellow.

still quiver
#

Ok great. I have a skyconnect but have not enabled multi-pan dare I šŸ˜

restive narwhal
#

is the nanoleaf ios app supposed to show thread credentials?

#

sounds like no

#

@spring bramble do you have a moment to help me out

#

i'm a total thread noob

#

writing up this ticket for apple right now and want to make sure i get everything right

#

right now i'm just seeing this, whats the fastest way to create a new thread network so i can confirm iOS can or cannot see it?

image.png
spring bramble
restive narwhal
#

I believe I did that already

#

and i'm on Yellow

spring bramble
#

hmm in that case something went wrong because it should show the otbr there

restive narwhal
#

yeah there was an error here the other day so i deleted and recreated the thread integration iirc

#

multiprotocol is enabled, is that the issue?

image.png
#

oh wait a second, you said install the OTBR addon, my bad

#

doing that now

#

i assume this is Bad

image.png
spring bramble
restive narwhal
#

docs said /dev/ttyAMA1 for yellow which is what i did

jagged leaf
#

I recently got a nanoleaf bulb with thread and matter. But the device keeps seeming to have a really unstable connection with home assistant on a raspberry pi 4 and skyconnect. It keeps showing it as turning off and becoming unavailable over and over again. Is this normal?

upbeat cairn
restive narwhal
#

ah thanks

upbeat cairn
#

Otherwise, both addons will be trying to talk to the radio at the same time and neither will work

restive narwhal
still quiver
restive narwhal
#

or do i just start up the OTBR and it does it for me

#

do i need to shut down the multiprotocol addon too?

still quiver
restive narwhal
jagged leaf
sick swan
still quiver
# jagged leaf Yes

exaclty, im seeing eaxctly, there ther was antoher who reported something similar....at least now I know its not the device....but could be firmware or google

#

have you tried connecting it form the skyconnect?

#

that was a suggestion from falstaff321 and marcel

jagged leaf
still quiver
jagged leaf
still quiver
#

I'd do myself but i have the strip already stuck to the wall and my HA Skyconnect is in the basement also not easy to move...lol

#

supposedly range is important as I'm learning, so I can;t get them close enough

digital salmon
#

Regarding Nanoleafā€¦ Here are already some guys who tested the new Nanoleaf Matter over Thread bulbs including myself. The bulbs are very unstable. I have two of them installed with direct Line of Sight to the Apple Thread Border Router. Every now and then the bulbs get unavailable and come back. I tested them with their latest firmware 3.5.10.

#

@all Is here anybody with reliable/stable working Nanoleaf Matter over Thread bulbs/strips?

still quiver
#

yes, I experienced the same, not sure how to fix

#

with the strips

#

sound like firmware problem of the device because I'm using Nest Thread

digital salmon
#

Yes, we have some sort of agreement here that the Nanoleaf firmware is causing the problem.

worn plinth
#

i don't have any border routers other than the skyconnect and i still see the nanoleaf bulb being unstable. it seems to blip unavailable -> back (within 1s usually) every 5-10h

half bluff
#

Mine are playing christmas lights with how many times its disconnecting/reconnecting right now

worn plinth
#

mine seemed to get better with the newest nanoleaf fw and matter service. but i don't have any empirical evidence for that

half bluff
#

Whats the newest Firmware #?

#

Im on 3.5.10

worn plinth
quiet stirrup
#

Just the shitty Nanoleaf firmware, honestly they donā€™t seem to have a will to improve it

#

Just a shame that this is the state hype matter/thread firmware is in, especially when they have new matter/thread only devices coming out later this year

still quiver
#

I managed to get my nanoleaf added to Google home only via nest hub devices as routers. It seems to be a little better i have seen it unavailable sometimes. Trying to add it to HA from Google did not work.

still quiver
#

At least now I can use it via Google until the next fw update ( šŸ™)

mighty heath
#

I had some unstable connections with my nanoleaf bulbs over thread

#

more unstable was actually adding them with matter in my home app

#

i was unable to pair and connect them for a while with updated firmware

spring bramble
silver thunder
still quiver
#

Are you using sky connect and nest Pan devices?

silver thunder
still quiver
#

I think you mentioned before that. You were able to combine your thread border router networks to one.

#

I'm not exactly sure how to do that. When I press sync thread credentials it doesn't combine my two networks

silver thunder
#

Have you made Nest your preferred network? Once you do that, you should get an option to add the Sky Connect to your preferred network

#

The other things that seemed to help for me were disabling the OTBR firewall, and rebooting (not just restarting) Home Assistant

still quiver
#

Yes, I made nest my preferred network. The sky connect is now considered another network. I'd be happy to try your suggestions. Could you please tell me how to do the first part I e combined the networks?

#

That is, How do I add the skyConnect to the preferred network?

#

ok, I just saw the option to add it to the preferred network...but now it says it cannot combine them because ZHA is channel 20 and the nest are channel 16

#

does this mean I have to change my ZHA to channel 16?

silver thunder
still quiver
#

ok, I guess I have some work to do. At worst, I would just have to repair some devices...Most of my devices are trusted brands (I hope), aquara, ikea

#

just changed the channel from the hardware menu....it said something about 5 mintes to commision. Ok, time for a coffee šŸ™‚

#

its doing something....CPU is slighltly elevated

still quiver
#

been about 30 minutes now, looks the channel was changed but most of my ZHA devices are unresponsive, CPU still slighlt elevated and Silicon Labs Multiprotocol is the culprit.

quick bronze
#

Not all devices handle a channel change without re-pairing

still quiver
#

those are logs from the addon

still quiver
#

before I start deleting and repairing

quick bronze
#

I suspect the answer is within an hour or two but I don't know for sure

still quiver
#

ok, ill give it more time...before I do anything thanks, Tink

quick bronze
#

Operating devices should speed that up

still quiver
#

what operating devices?

quick bronze
#

As in, interacting with them

#

Push the button

#

Toggle the switch

still quiver
#

but the original problem is solved.....I was able to add to add my SkyConnect TBR to the Nest network

quick bronze
#

Tap the pair button, etc

still quiver
#

ahh got it

#

willl do that

mighty heath
#

can someone explain what is preferred thread network ? How is it selected by the api?

spice imp
mighty heath
#

funnily enough google api always returns my earliest created credentials as my ā€œpreferred credentialsā€

#

eventho they are not actually used for anything

spice imp
#

I had the problem with the HA app on android where it didnā€™t update the tvl

#

That fixed it

versed copper
#

i have a question

#

With Thread or matter, is skyconnect can replace the apple hub with homekit ?

spring bramble
still quiver
#

thanks all for the help...I was able to combine my nest hub routers with my SkyConnect to make a single thread router network
I have a question I had to change my zigbee channel to what the Nest hubs were. Is this different for every other manufacter? for example, if I had an amazon echo or apple pod....are they also on Channel 16?

spring bramble
#

that depends on the dataset

#

so you tell the device to join a thread network on a specific channel

still quiver
#

ahh ok that is good to know! if you can add a (stationary) device to specific channel/router, then that could work better because then you can mix thread boarder routers for different manufactures.

#

maybe a future ESPHome project...TBProxy šŸ™‚

#

you guys are probably already working on it....

spring bramble
#

that would be our dream yes, and getting into range. espressif already launched a dev board that can do it

still quiver
#

by the way, what do I do with this? its kinda of strange that I can make an empty network a preferred network.
https://ibb.co/BTCNCR9

spring bramble
#

you can safely remove that

#

you joined the otbr to your google created network

fickle mantle
#

HA Preferred Network - Let me see if I understand this correctly... You first pick a Thread Network (say A) to be THE preferred network, and the HA Thread Integration goes to that BR and gets its Dataset. You can then "Add" additional Thread Networks (say Thread Network B and C) to the Preferred network", and the HA Thread Integration will then send the Dataset from A to the TBRs of B and C and then Thread Networks B and C will migrate their networks to the new Dataset and then become one big Thread network A.... is that roughly correct? Best Regards

quaint osprey
#

Apple back HomePod to Thread 1.2 on the last beta from iOS 17 to HomePod

#

My HomePods on iOS 16.5 is on Thread 1.3 yet

still quiver
#

how do you check what nest hub version of thread is?

hoary harbor
quaint osprey
hoary harbor
#

šŸ˜

half bluff
#

I actually think they forgot to update it since iOS 16.5 came out or something

vapid shell
#

Last time this came up it was noted the naming had changed as well, which was inconsistent with a simple downgrade or revert.

#

And it changed relative to any version of iOS 16, so no consistent with not merging an iOS 16 branch back into iOS 17

quaint osprey
#

Im forward to see the Apple answer to the ticket from Robbie480

toxic tree
#

For those on IOS who merged the OTBR with Appleā€™s, did you notice that the Dataset TLV under the preferred network didnā€™t change?

#

Itā€™s interesting because querying the OTBR websocket returns the correct (i.e appleā€™s) dataset, but UI shows the old home assistantā€™s

#

But other values like the Channel, Pan ID are correct

slate lance
#

Could I also just check in here, are there people who have OTBR running on the same device as HA, and the matter server? I'm assuming if there is, it's all within HAOS, so, if that's the case, are you all running the silabs multiprotocol setup and addon?

If you're not running the multiprotocol, how are you running OTBR?

Or, is everyone running a thread border router outside of HA?

#

I'm asking because I'm trying to debug what is going right, or wrong with my setup, as it's been very imperfect while running Core and everything in docker containers (though I don't know exactly which part wasn't right), but I've since installed HAOS, and things are still... funky, to say the least

spice imp
#

But then you need to run hasos ofc

#

And you can easily access the logs from hasos

#

With journalctl

slate lance
spice imp
#

What do you mean exactly?

slate lance
#

without another thread border router on their network, just 1 device, and everything running within HA's control

#

after installing HAOS earlier, I currently have a somewhat working setup, with the multiprotocol stuff installed, and my Thread configure page has 4 networks, 1 from Amazon, and 3 home-assistant ones, 1 having a border router in (the silicon one), which isn't my preferred one

spice imp
#

Setup

still quiver
#

Hi, anybody else notice out of the blue elevated CPU usage for the silicon lab muliprotocal addom?

#

The logs have a bunch of failed messages from otbr agent.

#

Restart the add on, resolves the elevated CPU.

#

I can submit an issue for more details

still quiver
worn plinth
hazy socket
#

hi all, i've been attempting to setup thread with my skyconnect today and had some questions. first of all, i'm doing everything in docker (is this even actually supported/am i wasting my time?). i have the otbr container up and connected my hass container to its api on port 8081. i see in the otbr container that hass created a thread network and it appears in the hass settings, i can also set it to be the default thread network. however, after a little bit of time, it says that no thread border routers were found and to reset. i hit reset and it fails in hass and the network in the otbr container is disabled. am i doing something wrong here?

flat drum
#

I have an openthread border router set up with the OTBR Integration. It seems to start fine. How can I check if it is actually available on my network?

plucky osprey
#

Hi dumb question : I have a sonoff zigbee router type P ( the long one) I think it is not compatible . Which model is ? Thanks

quick bronze
#

There is Thread firmware for the P

#

Search this channel for posts by tube:

in: thread from: tube0783
spring adder
#

reading the above it seems that we can't currently sync credentials across the SkyConnect and Apple TV Thread networks (e.g. MyHomeXX)?

toxic tree
#

Not unless you have a nano leaf and android device laying around that can get the apple TLV

indigo pawn
# restive narwhal im going to bed

Did you do your experiments with the iOS 16 or 17 SDK? The 17 SDK seems to have a previous iteration of the Thread networking stack (older than 16.4 even for some reason)

restive narwhal
#

iOS 16

#

but i got good news on Friday from Apple

hazy citrus
#

Hi, is there any way to see the thread topology (something similar to zigbee's view netwok )?

Edit: Found it here - #thread-archived message

still quiver
#

Can you provide a little bit more details on this? I was not able to find such an option and either add-on.

#

Maybe because I don't have a device connected yet

vapid shell
still quiver
#

I'm going to try to add the nanoleaf device again now that my thread network is on channel 20 I don't know if it helps or not.

hazy citrus
hazy citrus
still quiver
#

from what I understand, the SkyConnect becomes the manager of the network and so it brings the Nest Hub with it also. More information here from Puddly
#zigbee-archived message

#

in my case, it switched all 5 of my Nest Hubs to Channel 20

vapid shell
hazy citrus
# still quiver from what I understand, the SkyConnect becomes the manager of the network and so...

ah okay. I don't have any thread devices yet, but have 2 otbr - 1. HA with Skyconnect and 2. raspberry pi running otbr. I updated the Form in otbr (#2) webportal to match the HA's - pan, extended pan id and network name. After I did that in HA > thread >configure I see both HA and otbr listed under My network. But when I tried to view the topology in HA (after enabling the ports) and otbr they only show 1 router (themselves). I was hoping to see the HA (skyconnect) connected to otbr (on rpi). But don't see that. I ran into issues after enabling ports on HA and had to revert to an older backup and it was a hassle. As @vapid shell mentioned above, best is to not enable the ports in HA for web UI.

vapid shell
#

In thread, the ā€œleaderā€ is determined by an election, thereā€™s not a static manager. There is something called a pending dataset and an active dataset. Itā€™s the hexadecimal TLV we sometimes mention. It includes the channel. You can set a pending dataset, and then every device will switch pending to active at roughly the same time. Thatā€™s how channel changes are coordinated.

#

If you have devices offline that donā€™t see the pending dataset they might fall off the mesh

#

OTBR has a channel manager that has been brought up on here. (Disabled by default). It can automatically switch your channel on a schedule (eg nightly) based on noise on channels, you probably donā€™t want that if you have multi-protocol, as it wonā€™t be able to coordinate with zigbee.

vapid shell
still quiver
#

thanks for that information

hazy citrus
still quiver
#

i can't share pictures but when I Do this Devices and Services > Thread > Configure > i, it lists all my TBRs as the prefered network. Is this the topolgy you are referring to?

#

i was thinking it would show like zigbee mesh

hazy citrus
# still quiver i was thinking it would show like zigbee mesh

I was referring to something similar like zigbee mesh. In HA, if you go to Settings > Add-ons > Silicon Labs Multiprotocol > Configuration. Scroll towards the end and enable Show disabled ports. Under that enter 8080 and 8081 for OpenThread Web port and OpenThread REST API port respectively. It will restart Silicon Labs Multiprotocol. Then navigate to <your_HA_IP_address>:8080 from your browser. In that on left panel go to topology. It will show the mesh view.

#

but as @vapid shell was mentioning above, the web ui for otbr is not very stable.

still quiver
#

thanks! Good to know but I'll leave it alone for now....I just got my ZHA back to normal after migrating the channels from 20 to 16 and back 20....I don't want to break something again I've had enough complaints about the house being "dumb" for the last couple of days. I will tey to readd the nanoleaf device when I get home and report back later if thread on channel 20 helps with that

#

also, reading the documentation, I didn't realize that OpenThread is a google service.

still quiver
#

Some good news to report, after changing my Thread (and ZHA) network to channel 20, not only was I successfully able to add the Nano leaf strip light, but it's been two hours now and there has been not a single disconnect!

#

My thread network consists of 5 nest hubs (3 Max's and 2 second gen hubs) plus 1 skyconnect. I'd say the closest thread router is about 25 ft from the nano leaf device.

#

When my network was on channel 16, the device would connect and reconnect every 20 seconds... To the point that my CPU was increasing by 2 or 3%..just by having this device on my network.

#

OK I spoke too, soon... After I started playing with the device more, now it's starting to disconnect/reconnect on the order of minutes. Changing the channel improved the problem but didn't solve it.šŸ˜¬

tawny ravine
#

Would the nanoleaf essentials bulbs work with a multi-pan flashed ZBDongle-E ?

#

They're $8 USD new rn, I wanna buy 9

spice imp
#

And where did you find them so cheap?

tawny ravine
#

They're half off there

#

This guy got them to work, pain in the ass tho

spice imp
tawny ravine
#

homekit

#

matter is 3x the price?

spice imp
#

Great, that should work great

#

I habe read that the matter bulbs have a lot of problems

#

Also the matter ones are probably just a software update

#

But Iā€™m general itā€™s a bit of a coinflip. If you are lucky your network and everything works seamlessly out of the box. Sometimes you need to do a lot of stuff to get it working

tawny ravine
spice imp
#

Itā€™s the same with Eve

#

100% the same hardware

tawny ravine
#

I think they're different products, they have different fcc filings and energy star certifications

#

and the light quality is a little different between the energy stars, they must've changed some internals

spice imp
#

Okay thatā€™s true. Sorry

#

Seems like you canā€™t upgrade the old devices

tawny ravine
#

not worth going wiz for like twice the price, right?

#

1521lm vs 800-1100lm, but $15.71 vs $8.27

spice imp
tawny ravine
#

I might get by with 1-2 less bulbs since they're brighter

spice imp
#

I would not mix different bulbs, just makes the difference noticeable

tawny ravine
tawny ravine
spice imp
spice imp
tawny ravine
#

no I'm talking about philips wiz

#

now just wiz

spice imp
#

But probably just get what fits best for you

#

Or try to see them irl

#

Do you have some devices already?

tawny ravine
#

You can add lumens up but it won't look much brighter

#

And it depends of course on the pattern and concentration

#

But one huge benefit of the wiz is that I can run them at a lower brightness percentage

#

They'll heat up less, and I think I can get more power cycles that way?

#

Not to mention their lifetime at least doubling

spice imp
spice imp
spice imp
#

Some components hold up way longer than their rated lifetime

#

Others donā€™t

#

Then there are problems with some batches in manufacturing

#

And not the nicest output from your power net

#

Basically I donā€™t think that you should make your decision based on that

#

Also we are getting pretty off topic from thread.

tawny ravine
#

My thought was to turn the brightness up and down on them very gradually, instead of all of a sudden like they're programmed to do for "convenience"

#

But they're cheap enough, and electricity is expensive enough, to burn through those cycles and buy more bulbs to save on the power bill

tawny ravine
hazy citrus
#

Probably a very basic question - in terms of ā€˜point of failureā€™ how is thread different from zigbee? I understand you need to have a Zigbee coordinator which is kind of an orchestrator and if it goes down the zigbee mesh network kind of becomes dead. However in thread even if TBR goes down(there can be multiple TBRs in the same network) the thread network would still work. But my point is even in case of thread - if say all TBRs goes down the mesh network is kind of useless right? Because all the automation rules are probably on some device which is on LAN and it canā€™t reach the thread devices without having a functional TBR. I get it adds redundancy because we can have multiple TBRs on the same network and even if 1 goes down the handshake with thread and Ethernet will still be possible.

shy iris
#

It's possible to have controller devices paired directly with lights in a zigbee network. at which point your zigbee coordinator isn't needed for them. (depends on them being set up right by the manufacturer)

violet gulch
#

I finally managed to do everything correctly and installed a test HA-OS in a VM, delegated my Sonoff Dongle-E there, and ran SI-labs' multiprotocol add-on. Enabled Thread and now I see two networks - mine and Google's (I have a Nest Hub2). Not that I'm surprised to see two networks, but is there a way to have just one network so that it has two border routers? E.g., maybe HA could join Google's network (since obviously Google doesn't give a shit).

still quiver
#

It's been a couple of days now that I've been using my nanoleaf on my thread network. And I must say that it's been pretty stable and usable. It does disconnect/reconnect, but it doesn't do it often. It can go sometimes 18 hours without a disconnect. Or sometimes it disconnects every 3 to 5 minutes for about ten minutes or so, But the device is functional and usable and im using it normally with automations etc. For me, the big change was changing my thread network to channel 20.

#

Channel 16 was a disaster for the nanoleaf (and my ZHA), it would disconnect and reconnect every 10 seconds, non-stop.

twin saffron
still quiver
#

exactly, its now usable! for those having issues with nanoleaf....try channel 20

spice imp
shy iris
#

One of the problems with thread. it's not particularly mature yet. šŸ™‚

hazy citrus
#

correct, most of the automation resides on HA (for those using HA). So if HA fails, nothing would work irrespective of thread or zigbee. I feel the only advantage in terms of point of failure for threads is - can have multiple tbrs so even if 1 goes down the others will keep routing to HA (where as in case of zigbee, if the coordinator (only 1 is allowed) goes down, everything is disconnected from HA)

spice imp
shy iris
#

Doesn't make what i said wrong.

digital salmon
# still quiver exactly, its now usable! for those having issues with nanoleaf....try channel 20

Sorry, but this canā€™t be a general solution. All these technologies (2.4GHz Wifi, Thread, ZigBee and Bluetooth) use the same 2.4GHz frequency band. If you had problems with channel 16 there maybe was high a channel interference by your or your neighbors 2.4GHz technologies. If it works for you on channel 20, you do not have any or low channel interference on that frequency range. šŸ˜‰

still quiver
lyric oak
#

Hi, I was writing there some time ago. Now situation is better and I better understand thread network. I have 4 thread light bulbs (3 matter, 1 home kit integration) HA OTBR and Google NestHub2 ā€“ everything as one network. Generally setup is working. My problem is that devices are switching between 2 networks. One is ā€œhome-assistantā€ and second is ā€œNEST-PAN-E657ā€. Both routers are always in the same network. It doesnā€™t matter which network is set as preferred it will always switch to the second one in some time (max observed time on one network - 2 days). Deleted other networks from HA but it always reappear .I could live with that as most of the times all devices migrate to new network but sometimes some device doesnā€™t and they become unavailable (HA restart helps). Iā€™m especially worry what happen when I add battery devices.
Anyone observed something similar?
What causing such behaviour?
How to stop it?

hazy citrus
lyric oak
hoary harbor
#

Changing the preferred network in HA or deleting networks from it aren't going to change the configuration of your bulbs

#

They somehow must have gotten the other network added as their backup dataset

#

Factory default one of them and re-add it to a single Thread network and see if the problem persists with that one

spice imp
hazy citrus
#

Any clue why otbr doesn't get installed with 64bit of Raspbian OS? Anyone successfully installed otbr on it?

quiet stirrup
#

What error are you getting?

hazy citrus
#

I gave up and have it working on 32bit. I will try again and share the error.

hazy citrus
#

Do tbrs also act like repeaters(like ZigBee repeaters)?

quiet stirrup
#

It sorta can

#

But tbrs typically have a network connection, so they would just make their own sorta connection

hazy citrus
#

Does the otbr implementation using Nordic nRF52840 act as mesh extender too?

hazy citrus
# quiet stirrup What error are you getting?

It's getting stuck at this step - INFRA_IF_NAME=eth0 ./script/setup . I waited for 30mins without any luck. Rebooted rpi and see otbr-agent is running but web service doesn't start

# 
sudo service otbr-web status
Unit otbr-web.service could not be found.
#

using ot-ctl commands I was able to set networkname, channel, pan id, extended pan id to match HA's setup and now I see the otbr (on rpi 64bit) part of HA's thread network. But still the web.service is not found. Not sure how to (re)install just that part. Tried running all the steps again and it didn't help.

spice imp
#

Is otbr-web installed by default?

spice imp
hazy citrus
hazy citrus
hazy citrus
spice imp
#

As long as itā€™s registered as ftd it should be fine

hazy citrus
spice imp
hazy citrus
spice imp
#

Its using nat64 though

hazy citrus
#

If itā€™s FTD or not? How does it matter if itā€™s nat64?

spice imp
#

Use the otctl

spice imp
#

It was more of a side note

#

I would run the same config as the ha one if you are using it.

But back to your problem, dont you get any error from the script?

spice imp
hazy citrus
hazy citrus
hazy citrus
hazy citrus
spice imp
#

Have you tried using ubuntu? Thats what they usually use at the csa, maybe it works netter put og the box.

hazy citrus
spice imp
hazy citrus
still quiver
#

I just added my second nanoleaf LED strip light.

#

At first it wouldn't connect and just get stuck at the part where it says connecting device to home assistant

#

I I find if you unplug/plug the device from power, after performing a factory reset it connects successfully

#

I still experience this issue below from time to time. Anybody know why this is happening?

low dew
#

<deleted>

hoary harbor
hazy citrus
#

There are 2 integrations related to thread in HA - ā€˜open thread border routerā€™ and second is ā€˜Threadā€™. The skyconnect shows up under ā€˜Threadā€™ even my otbr running on pi shows up there. Nothing under ā€˜otbrā€™ integration. Is that correct setup?

vapid shell
#

The thread integration is where data on all thread networks that HA has a key for lives. Itā€™s only used when another integration needs to use a key for commissioning (homekit_controller) or when a companion app is syncing thread keys to the android or apple framework. The BR diagnostics were put there because they arenā€™t specific to OTBR, they work for apple, nest, eero. All your BRs should be visible there.

#

That integration is not integral to the the operation of thread outside of commissioning.

#

The OTBR integration is used to automatically configure the 2 OTBR addons (multiprotocol and normal) that are available in HAOS. You can only have 1 instance of that integration. Last I checked, all it did was pull the network key from your OTBR into the thread integration OR make a brand new network from scratch if your OTBR is brand new.

#

The fact that itā€™s there at all means it was automatically installed and configured to point at the OTBR addon you are using

#

I wouldnā€™t expect it to particular so much, and beyond autoconfiguring the network itā€™s not actively involved in thread working on a day to day basis.

#

And itā€™s only aware of the addon Br, not any of the others

#

So basically yes that sounds normal @hazy citrus

hazy citrus
#

Okay šŸ‘. Was checking as Iā€™m unable to commission any matter thread device to HA via skyconnect or otbr. So wanted to make sure the configuration was correct

surreal nimbus
#

So if I have a SkyConnect and pass it to my HA VM, what does this mean?

it is possible to turn your Home Assistant SkyConnect into a Thread border router
does the SkyConnect itself become a border router? or the HA VM become a border router and uses the SkyConnect as its antenna?
and if the SkyConnect becomes the border router, will it simply pass all the info on to the HA VM?

quick bronze
#

To add a TBR to Home Assistant, you can use our Home Assistant Yellow hub or the Home Assistant SkyConnect Zigbee/Thread stick

spice imp
hazy citrus
#

Checked the thread network name in HA now itā€™s back to ā€˜home-assistantā€™ (was ā€˜Homeassistantā€™ before). Not sure why it got changed in its own.

spring bramble
#

So, my Thread network has been stable for weeks. Just an occasional quick drop to unavailable for a second or so once in a couple of days or so. Well, until I added a Nanoleaf bulb, from that point on devices become unresponsive all the time and iterating between available and unavailable. So, the kind of issues we see reported here sometimes. I've been expecting the traffic and indeed this device is constantly dropping off the network and takes down devices in "its route". So one way I'm glad I was able to finally reproduce the issues some of you are seeing but at the same time surprised that a single light bulb can take down multiple devices. Guess the matter support is still in development for Nanoleaf, like we saw with early Eve firmware

still quiver
#

Thanks for confirming Marcel. With 2 nanoleaf devices on my network, I do see the constant disconnect/connected for both devices. Sometimes it happens every 3 minutes, sometimes every 1 to 3 hours, sometimes at 18hrs.

spring bramble
#

I've removed the device again and now all devices are stable again.

worn plinth
#

that's wild that it can take things down in its path, too. i haven't seen that but it's entirely possible it has a direct line - i haven't reenabled that map tool so i'm not sure

spring bramble
#

Yeah, I was just as surprised about that. Anyways its mentioned in the matter channel that there's an update for the nanoleaf bulbs and the update description says "improved connection stability and recovery for matter essentals" so maybe I give this another shot later this week šŸ™‚

worn plinth
quiet stirrup
lyric oak
lyric oak
# spice imp What do you mean with changing network?

Once all border routers and bulbs works with network X (Network name: home-assistant, Channel: 26, Pan id: a202 ....) after some time they works with network Y (Network name: NEST-PAN-E657 Channel: 26 Pan id: e657 ...) Info from HA->Thread->Configuration. Problem is that not always all bulbs switch network.

spice imp
lyric oak
lucid stump
#

Ok, just a quick question to test my knowledge. Have i understood this correctly?

  1. the point of a thread border router is simply as a bridge between the thread network and the Ethernet/WiFi network

  2. while v1.3 is required for multiple TBRs to form a single network/fabric, it's still possible for a TBR from another manufacturer to perform the bridge role. Even at a lower version of thread.

  3. therefore, a network with a single (for example) echo gen 4 TBR would still allow home assistant to communicate with thread devices in your home -even if the home assistant instance does not have skyconnect ?

Thanks. Always looking to confirm I've understood things šŸ™‚

spice imp
spice imp
lyric oak
#

No I don't. Few days ago I read there that network could have second data set and force switch to it. I don't know what could trigger it and how to stop it. I would like to find out that. I don't think it is partitioning as most of the time all device change network only sometimes 1 maybe 2 lost connectivity.

digital salmon
# spring bramble So, my Thread network has been stable for weeks. Just an occasional quick drop t...

Yesterday I saw the Nanoleaf app update with the Matter improvements. I thought I should give my Nanoleaf bulbs another chance. But no itā€™s still not working reliable. Every now and then the devices get unavailable and come back. Yes, sometimes a lot of my typically very stable working 35 EVE (22 Matter over Thread, 13 HomeKit over Thread) devices, now also loose their connection and come back. I really want these Nanoleafs to work, but this way they are not usableā€¦ šŸ™ƒ

spring bramble
still quiver
#

I'm not seeing a nanoleaf update, still 3.5.10 here. I presume you're talking about the app?

quiet stirrup
#

Yep

still quiver
#

Without knowing anything about thread or matter, how would the app update improve the device?

quiet stirrup
#

No idea really, maybe there is some hot fixes that donā€™t require a firmware update

still quiver
#

That is a good point

spice imp
#

Almost sounds like nano leaf is using TI chips šŸ˜…

digital salmon
spice imp
lyric oak
spice imp
#

Do you know how to access ot-ctl?

lyric oak
spice imp
#

Where some devices would not get online again or be ping able until I restarted the otbr

hazy citrus
#

Is it possible to make HA skyconnect join some other thread network? Reason: I only have skyconnect and raspberry pi running otbr. Since commissioning using skyconnect is not working out. I was thinking if I can commission device via otbr (on rpi) instead of skyconnect? I have done the other way i.e. adding otbr to HA thread network. Not sure if it will help in my case as I guess skyconnect is also using otbr.

vapid shell
#

Thereā€™s no practical difference to doing it the other way around, thereā€™s no ā€œmasterā€ device in thread. The leader is elected dynamically and might not event be a BR.

#

(If understand you correctly)

vapid shell
#

Letā€™s say your android device has put the thread creds into the device over Bluetooth, and then matter is trying to commishā€¦ thatā€™s pure ipv6 and which br is in use is up to the matter stack (well, the Linux kernel). The only way to exercise any control over which one is to turn the other off.

#

If you want to rule out SkyConnect as the source of your problems just turn the addon off and unplug the dongle.

edgy creek
#

I have the multi firmware on my skyconnect but missing the openthread border router addon. Is there any possibility to install the addon and still use ZHA on the skyconnect as normal?

hazy citrus
hazy citrus
vapid shell
#

yes

#

silicon labs add-on = OTBR

#

just with multi-pan support

hazy citrus
hazy citrus
#

I will probably wait for the android app fix instead of messing with my current setup which has a lot of zigbee devices using skyconnect dongle.

#

I saw in one the videos Adblock was causing issues with commissioning (but it did have a reference to this channel saying it might not be the case). Im running openwrt. Any specific firewall setting I should be looking at to make sure itā€™s not the cause of me unable to onboard thread devices? For reference the issue is with android app unable to sync and get the credentials etc (which is going to be fixed in HA android app)

vapid shell
# edgy creek I have the multi firmware on my skyconnect but missing the openthread border rou...

I don't know exactly where you are at in your SkyConnect journey. When it arrives the skyconnect is running zigbee only firmware. it sounds like you are already past that, but there is a guide for enabling multi-protocol here for the yellow, it should be very similar for skyconnect: https://yellow.home-assistant.io/guides/enable-multiprotocol/. as part of that, you should get a Silicon labs add-on.. which is the OTBR add-on. if you don't, then something went wrong in that process.

vapid shell
#

Google's SDK probably does expect to be able to e.g. sync network info to their cloud, but thats not thread, and i have no idea what they require in their app

hazy citrus
#

Okay. I just have rpi running openwrt as router and thatā€™s connected to AP.

hazy citrus
vapid shell
#

no

edgy creek
hazy citrus
#

Do you have any other TBRs(thread border router) such as those from Apple, Google? If not, you might be out of luck. What I have seen in onboarding thread devices just with skyconnect as TBR is not possible. BTW are you using HA companion app on ios or android? If it's ios there is no way to onboard unless you have apple TBR (they are working on a fix and it might take months - it's somewhere up in this channel). If you are using android, navigate to HA > Settings > Companion app > Troubleshoot. In there try to see if you are able to sync the thread credentials .

edgy creek
#

Under add-ons I have silicon labs multiprotocol and matter server

#

I have neither tbr, only skyconnect and using android

#

Troubleshoot said, homeassistant and this device use the same network

hazy citrus
#

That's good, so you are not hitting the android HA app bug. What is the error you see when trying to onboard the thread device using matter from HA?

edgy creek
#

No connection to device possible, check if your phone is connected to wifi

I only have one wifi, and my phone is definitely connected to that. Homeassistant runs on a raspberry pi 4 and is connected to LAN

hazy citrus
#

For me, I see "Connecting to device" then "Generating Matter Credentials" then it says connecting and it fails (don't remember the exact message on the HA screen). Looks like you are not getting past the first step? I see you are using aqara door/window p2 thread sensor . The obvious, but I'm guessing it's in pairing mode. Not sure what's happening. Right now the support for matter devices is very low in HA (as it's still in beta). There is no doc/list which has list of supported devices for HA (matter).

edgy creek
#

I getting the same messages as you, connecting, generating and then it fails.

The sensor is in pairing mode

hazy citrus
#

Guess, I will keep my hopes down for the fixed Android HA companion app(as even if the thread credentials are in sync, it's failing for you). Not sure what's happening.

edgy creek
#

Yeah, it's still early beta. Guess we have to wait

fickle mantle
#

As an FYI, I just finished trying out the Aqara door/window P2 sensor, and it did pair/add to HA Thread/Matter/Skyconnect using Android HA companion App. I do not have any other Thread network.

hazy citrus
#

Did you have to do something different? Or it worked in the first try?

fickle mantle
#

Nothing special. I did first try the iOS HA Companion app just to confirm it would not work (and it did not). Then tried the Android Companion App, and surprisingly it worked the first time.

hazy citrus
#

I'm seeing below error in the silicon labs multi protocol add on:

otbr-agent[306]: 3d.12:05:56.579 [N] MeshForwarder-: Failed to send IPv6 UDP msg, len:96, chksum:844b, ecn:no, to:d6e4735960efc9eb, sec:no, error:NoAck, prio:net
hazy citrus
#

Does this have anything to do with commissioning matter thread devices?

vapid shell
#

you can't answer that question from that log

#

remember that OTBR is just routing packets; it doesn't know what they are so it can't log "this is a commissioning packet"

#

this means that it received a packet from somewhere, and tried to forward it somewhere, and it failed.

#

could be an interference

#

could be the device isnt on

#

the device is having troubles of its own

#

etc

#

it might even be considered normal for some packets to fail to send, as perfect radio conditions are probably a pipe dream

#

but all we can tell from our side is that we fired a packet out, and it was never acknowledged

serene prawnBOT
#

@lucid stump I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

šŸ“Ž message.txt
lucid stump
#

Hi thread gurus,
I'm looking into the diagnostics in the thread component. It shows a list of add-ons being used by the system. Most of this data is correct. However I still show the legacy HACS early beta of the matter protocol integration which was removed some time ago and no longer shows within HACS.
Does this mean that this beta code is somehow still running in my implementation? If so, how do i remove it to prevent it causing future issues?
Many thanks

    "matter_experimental": {
      "version": "0.3.0",
      "requirements": [
        "python-matter-server==0.3.0"
      ]
    },
hazy citrus
still quiver
#

I get those in my logs too but still was able to add the devices to my network. Are you trying to add a nanoleaf?

hazy citrus
spring bramble
#

@lucid stump that is not right. Make sure to clean it up first. Probably you can just do that from HACS, otherwise just remove it manually from the custom_components folder

fickle mantle
hazy citrus
#

I'm guessing the answer is no - will thread devices (IP address) show up in the router's connected devices page? I think only TBR will show up in the router's admin page. Can't verify as I'm unable to commission thread devices to HA.

vapid shell
#

Correct

hazy citrus
vapid shell
#

Get itā€™s ip address from zeroconf. The TBR should act as a repeater.

#

Or worst case? Run tcpdump against the wpan0 device to see all the packets Flowing between your TBR and the mesh

#

tcpdump -ni wpan0

#

You should be able to identify the participants in each exchange - so see that traffic is flowing between your phone and the device but not between the matter server and your device, or you might see the opposite.

#

I would only have one TBR online during that test

lucid stump
frozen cipher
#

RE: Aqara P2, is matter required to load the device into HA using an apple border router?

#

Iā€™ve got an Apple TV as my TBR (which is detected in HA in the thread integration) but I donā€™t have the matter integration installed since Iā€™m running in a container and havenā€™t done the work to spin up a 2nd matter server container

hazy citrus
#

Yes, you will need to use matter (or homekit) to onboard matter devices

frozen cipher
#

So Iā€™m able to onboard the device to HomeKit its on step 2 that Iā€™m getting stuck since I donā€™t see the device in HA after onboarding in HomeKit

vapid shell
#

So the Apple Home app supports the HomeKit protocol and the Mather protocol. If itā€™s a matter device, the homekit instructions wonā€™t work.

frozen cipher
#

Ohhhh got it

#

Yeah itā€™s a matter device

#

I thought even though itā€™s a matter device, it would work through HomeKit using the border router

#

Thanks for your help!

quiet stirrup
#

It should work ā€œthoughā€ HomeKit, it supports matter

vapid shell
# frozen cipher I thought even though itā€™s a matter device, it would work through HomeKit using ...

The branding is very confusing. Homekit can be used to refer to a protocol (HomeKit accessory protocol), an SDK for building iot apps on iOS and sometimes the Apple Home app. As a developer Iā€™m skewed towards talking about protocols. The docs probably need updating there. Both homekit the protocol and matter can run over thread and use your apple border routers. They donā€™t even have to be in your Apple Home ecosystem to leverage your Apple BRs.

#

So TL;DR it works with ā€œHomeKitā€ and through ā€œHomeKitā€ if you are talking about the app on your phone from Apple called Home, but thatā€™s not the same as HomeKit the protocol, which is what the homekit and homekit_controller integrations are for.

#

But you can use your apple BRs either way, and actually right now the rough consensus is they are the more stable BRs to have. At least this week.

lyric oak
serene prawnBOT
#
Rule 6

@lyric oak Spam will not be tolerated, including but not limited to: self-promotion, flooding, textwalls (longer than 15 lines - use Hastebin or similarĀ³) and unapproved bots.
Please take the time now to review all of the rules and references in #rules.