plugins-dev-chat

[sweet flax]

i think he means the SIZE not SCALE of the player

[thin shuttle]

It's would need the asset to measure it's collision

[cyan crown]

i copied the settings they do work as expected

and there goes a new pixel bug

this is going to be demon difficulty for each room

[rose basalt]

is it possible to make images via spawntoy text

just a question guys 😔

[unique crane]

Yes

[grand flower]

image toy when

[hearty shard]

can we add brainrot to sl

[grand flower]

the players are brainrotted enough

[hearty shard]

nono

theres no such thing

[upper vapor]

don't add yourself to SL

[hearty shard]

I HATE YOU

[upper vapor]

thx

💞

[cyan crown]

i'm going to test out making a new tool that allows me to bake lightmaps for each room i'm still searching for how to approach such tool but i think it will help out making current levels look good with less performance cost

[static meteor]

You can see how here (This uses exiled btw)
https://github.com/MustafaBaggins/PixelSpray

[grand flower]

rip bandwidth

[hollow remnant]

how to change Player::CurrentItem to ItemType.None?

args.Player.CurrentItem = null; correct?

[static meteor]

Should be

Iirc

[cyan crown]

@grand flower

why is it saying you're new here

did you leave and rejoin?

[hearty shard]

he did

[cyan crown]

☠️

[grand flower]

took a long break

only really back to chat with cool people

[rose basalt]

ok cool but is it possible without SL plugins and straightly using spawntoy text

[grand flower]

If you can paste in the same kind of text needed to make an image, i guess?

[hollow remnant]

how to display hitmarker?

[static meteor]

Player::SendHitMarker iirc

[hollow remnant]

thx

[cyan crown]

thanks unity

this fucking issue is with APV

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-speed-tweaking-tweak-out-tweak-gif-9626953229313588671

[warped prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/speed-ishowspeed-speed-stream-ishowspeed-stream-speed-nod-gif-1082323842437565509

[sharp hedge]

how laggy is that in game??

[grand flower]

Rip

[soft depot]

just uses maybe 1-2 extra GB of RAM iirc

[grand flower]

Just one or two gigs

for 4 images

[hearty shard]

Lmao

[grand flower]

Acceptable

[hearty shard]

Does anyone know about LayerMask.GetMask usage in SL?

apparently it cant be called unless inside like Awake or Start which.. kinda stinks

[grand flower]

huh

why

[restive turret]

Huh

[hearty shard]

Secrets

[grand flower]

[hearty shard]

I am cooking

Thats a lie

Someone else is

[grand flower]

tbh

my question was more "why wouldn't that work"

[hearty shard]

Unity moment

It complains

Well it specifically complains with constructor/fields
aka
private static readonly LayerMask is a complaint from unity and it nono like

[tired charm]

works fine for me inside of OnPlayerJoined event

[hearty shard]

ok but thats not a component

and also you said event on join, but

[hearty shard]

^^

Constructor/field of a MonoBehaviour

[grand flower]

Ah

[tired charm]

ah didnt see that msg

[grand flower]

Unity moment

Join me on our glorious Unreal Engine

[hearty shard]

Mmmm

Nuh uh

[grand flower]

Where you'll experience even more horror

Yeah fair

[soft depot]

fineeeeeeee I'll go do a pixel/ram benchmark 🙄

[grand flower]

Eh it remains horrific to send images as text heh

[restive turret]

Well you don't want such a thing as r6s exploit rn

[grand flower]

What

How's that relevant

[restive turret]

Y'know what forget i should go to sleep

[soft depot]

maybe as an idea, but if you just code a good method for it it's not that bad

[grand flower]

Just sucks that it's the only way

Wish they'd let us send images

[soft depot]

"We're never adding images to SL cuz of the damage they could cause 😡 "

Toy named text:

[grand flower]

Did they seriously say that

[soft depot]

I think I heard something similar

that's generally the reason

[grand flower]

not surprised

[soft depot]

otherwise it should be a piece of cake

just cap size to 65k bytes (mirror packet limit)

encode RGBA24 and send it

would let me get like 4-5x network performance and insane speeds

I could actually stream a watchable video in SL with that

(and that's just the really easy version, you could totally send an image over multiple packets for higher res)

[hearty shard]

Yummy

[soft depot]

BRUH I WAS GONNA EAT THAT

[grand flower]

Can just chunk it, that's lazy

[hearty shard]

nuh uh

[soft depot]

^^^

[grand flower]

Part of why I don't do SL anymore is the whole "can't add that it's unsafe" and 99% of the time it's garbage

[hearty shard]

I also didnt read any of the context i just saw cake

[soft depot]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[grand flower]

I saw the argument with another server host recently and it's just so irritating

[umbral zephyr]

Is there a tool for this?

[soft depot]

I mean I made a method for rendering images yes, but I don't feel like giving it away for free...

I think there's plugins for this on MER and Exiled though. I just think my version is better n stuff

[umbral zephyr]

Time to go make it myself.

[thin shuttle]

I kinda love the idea of an enum for doing that

[sharp hedge]

who would one ping to deal with this

[soft depot]

idk, I'd ping a staff member but I'm scared I'd get warned 😓

there's no way anybody falls for this anywas 😭

[sharp hedge]

yeahh

the only mod online has the moderator on leave role and i dont quite know what that means so i dont want to ping them

[topaz yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-ban-mod-gif-11440425247527511507

[wary gust]

How the hell does the delete old LA logs config work? I have rebooted a test server twice after chanining it and did a few round restarts to no avail. Like is that thing broken or am I missing something?

Figured it out. Prob gonna have to wait until tomorrow cos of how the check is made.

[upper vapor]

CachedLayerMask

[upper vapor]

which server host

[grand flower]

I'm not going to snitch, the concerned parties know

Using "muh security" or "muh potential for abuse" as rejection without further explanation sucks

[upper vapor]

is it related to

accessing players' local mutes on the server?

[grand flower]

indeed

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/japonpr-lol-funny-hijab-laugh-gif-15957333

yeah it's been uh... discussed here before a few times

[cyan crown]

[upper vapor]

i'm for letting the server access mutes

just to be clear

[grand flower]

I was about to ask hah

I don't see how "muh security" is a valid argument here

[upper vapor]

the potential for abuse has already existed ever since servers existed tbh

[grand flower]

servers that wanna be dicks because you muted XYZ are just shitty servers and players will just leave them for others lol

yeah

Stop trying to police every server, I thought y'all got rid of VSR for this reason

[cyan crown]

Axwabo whats your thoughts on a SL main menu but its like cs 2 as in having a human class or scp in center of the screen

[upper vapor]

peak

[cyan crown]

😿 holy classic

I hope someone could help with doing a animation for humans since im a loser i can't animate full human animations

[upper vapor]

don't ask me for that 😭

at everyone

[cyan crown]

lol no no dont worry

You should code the animation😼

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/this-fucking-sucks-crying-girl-tears-of-joy-clapping-danny-devito-gif-12766761978490409957

[grand flower]

I'd focus on gameplay first IMO

it's what i'm doing for mine

No point in doing all the fancy cosmetic stuff

[upper vapor]

but i like fancy cosmetic stuff

[grand flower]

I'll have t posing SCP:CB D-Bois as the prototype player model

[cyan crown]

True i'll probably do that for now

I still didnt event port most of networking scripts from original git repo

[upper vapor]

t-posing zombies reference

[grand flower]

hah

Shot in the dark but I wonder if anybody here is going to GDC next month

[cyan crown]

I just got this today

[grand flower]

It's expensive so probably not

Although I have a random person I know poke me saying they're also going so it happens ig

[upper vapor]

why is everything so sharp

(not see sharp)

[grand flower]

radiation effect in games.gif

yeah that's uh

literally cooked

[cyan crown]

See

Its sharp

I used my shit ass sharpness post processing effect on this legacy project

[grand flower]

rip

[cyan crown]

I'll probably add options to tweak it

[upper vapor]

shartness

[cyan crown]

The effect is like 4 months old

I made it when i was working on original legacy project

[grand flower]

nice

[slate flume]

This is because you're based

[grand flower]

W

[slate flume]

Time to draft a meeting agenda for my team 👍🏻

[warped prairie]

[warped prairie]

[upper vapor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gl2RmUV0hg

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

SL devs in their retirement homes: "finally we got .net 11 in unity"

[restive turret]

🔥

[restive turret]

Tbh ye i read tru the .net11 changes

ZStandard being added as compression is good

Also Collection expression arguments

[upper vapor]

now that one is weird

at least the proposal

[restive turret]

I didnt read the marriage for those

[upper vapor]

😭

[harsh thorn]

The VSR was gotten rid of for this reason

We decided to remove all the random rules, and simply prevent things we did not want to happen from the games end

like was said before, multiple alternative solutions were proposed, ranging from tools for speakertoys
special rich text tags

or even a displaykit element that makes it not appear

which cover all the arguments used to request accessing client mutes

[slate flume]

Is it just me or is the registration for CustomEventsHandlers poorly optimized

Every single CheckEvent call re-runs GetMethods

Would it not be best to do one GetMethods at the beginning and pass that into the CheckEvent?

[slate flume]

I mean it doesn't really address every argument
There's likely always going to be a few things that the solutions you implement don't cover

[harsh thorn]

so then ask for a solution that cover those

[slate flume]

15 billion small alternative solutions instead of one proper one

Off-rip I would say #1409717921583992832 message poses a unique challenge

[harsh thorn]

dont get me wrong, but why does it actually matter if someones mouth is moving but you cant hear them?

[slate flume]

QoL

Why is it up to you to determine what we want/don't want

It's small but it'd be nice

[harsh thorn]

you initially asked for moderation and player safety

solutions were provided

now were moving to "qol"

[slate flume]

Is that a problem?

Am I not allowed to make a new argument now that different information has been presented?

I didn't bring it up initially because it wasn't the most pressing concern

[harsh thorn]

you are, but the same decision still stands
you will not be getting access to client utes

[slate flume]

Okay 🤷 doesn't mean I can't be against it

I agree with Cyn and I agree with Axwabo on this topic

I will express my discontent with your guys' decision-making so long as this decision is upheld

I think you guys keep digging your own hole by trying to find round-about solutions to everything instead of allowing developers a certain level of access to improve our servers for people

Both our lives and your guys' lives would be easier if you didn't make these decisions

It just baffles me that you're so set on it

[restive turret]

Those (except the GetMethods) is generated, feel free to make a PR tho

[slate flume]

All your replies have been "Yeah sure man but it's still not happening" and whatever, that's fine, but there's a genuine point to be made about these kinds of situations

[harsh thorn]

unfortunately the decision stands

im trying to be understanding and accept alternatives as i do agree there is a reasoning behind having mutes for text chats
but trying to then force this into "but how can i now prevent speaking animations for those that i muted" just looks like you are trying to find ways to make it significant

[slate flume]

^

[glad pagoda]

i mean

you get a no

and instead of trying to get to some compromise

you insist on complaining about it

[spare zodiac]

[slate flume]

Because it's dumb

[slate flume]

You just keep waffling about the same shit and are now saying my argument is invalid because my original argument was centered around other issues, which is a weird stance

[restive turret]

Me when I mute players in rust and I see their mount is moving

[slate flume]

My point is that there's always going to be niche side-cases that remain unaddressed

Because you take half-measures

[harsh thorn]

i never said the argument is invalid
however first it was player safety, i can understand this, hence why i approved a number of alternatives

but animations when talking is not something i see we should be changing my decision for

[slate flume]

I don't have much else to say in response outside of what I've already said

Your argument against the points Cyn and others have made is just "Yeah but we added other half-measures!"
Instead of just letting developers have basic access to these things

Makes everyone's jobs harder

[restive turret]

Not mine since I aint care about it

[glad pagoda]

i mean something being useful doesnt mean that it it can't cause bad stuff

like we did have server hosts doing stuff like earraping people

[slate flume]

Except the "bad stuff" it causes is pure speculation and I feel is rather detached from reality

[harsh thorn]

i can see every single case S&C has handled

unfortunately there are people like this

[slate flume]

The argument against it is "Oh but developers might give staff access to view client mutes and those staff might harass players!" brother just join a different server

[glad pagoda]

issue is, we're the ones getting complaints about it, not you

[slate flume]

Yeah because I don't break the guidelines you guys have in place

[spare zodiac]

Client sided mutes would allow us to restrict SCP speaking via proximity chat to X player if they muted that SCP

[slate flume]

I'm sorry other servers sometimes do

[spare zodiac]

we're unable to do that otherwise

[slate flume]

I don't understand the relevance

[harsh thorn]

an alternative was already presented for this

SpeakerToy::SendAs

[slate flume]

It's always alternatives and half-measures

[spare zodiac]

what does that do?

[harsh thorn]

sends it as that player and wont play it if their muted locally

[spare zodiac]

so like why do we need other access to client sided mutes?

[slate flume]

Side cases

[spare zodiac]

like

[slate flume]

Text communications, other plugins working around communications

#1387126552608768221

[slate flume]

^

[spare zodiac]

tbh developers of servers can implement measures with SSS if they try enough

[upper vapor]

that means every plugin has to implement muting

[harsh thorn]

Im sorry, but im trying to work with you here to achieve a solution for the important things presented

text chat - special rich text tags
text chat - special displaykit element that will hide itself if for muted player
scp prox chat - speakertoy::displayas

[upper vapor]

instead of having a reliable, all-compatible system

[harsh thorn]

its minimal work for a plugin developer

its JUST as much as checking if muted

[upper vapor]

SSSS and minimal work don't belong in the same sentence

[harsh thorn]

#plugins-dev-chat message

you did not read my message

[upper vapor]

i did read it

[slate flume]

It's so awesome having to implement 3+ different systems in my plugin just to abide by mutes while still ignoring other small side cases

[spare zodiac]

all 3 alternatives sound nice

[slate flume]

My whole point is you're taking half-measures for literally such an inane reason

[restive turret]

You just send the message that has both in the same sentence

[harsh thorn]

you would be implementing an if (ismutedfor(player) in the EXACT same place as you'd be passing the values for the 3 alternatives

[spare zodiac]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1440424175721517126/1474690553844203590/attachment.gif

[slate flume]

If you aren't seeing the point I made then that's on you dog

[upper vapor]

all 3 alternatives instead of being able to go like "yo chat did person A mute person B?" you have to go to 3 different places per use-case

[slate flume]

Literally

[spare zodiac]

it isn't on him, everyone have different views of this and Cedric is working with SL security long time

[slate flume]

It is on him, and every other higher-up supporting this decision

They made their choice

And I'm criticizing it

[upper vapor]

so the argument against accessing local mutes is "potential for abuse" or what

[spare zodiac]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/878752526546124880/1419972190207475793/attachment.gif

[harsh thorn]

well if it gets added abuse will happen

[slate flume]

That's the entire argument

[upper vapor]

xd

[harsh thorn]

i can guarantee you that one

[slate flume]

Yeah the staff member I muted is gonna yell at me or something smh

[upper vapor]

abuse has existed ever since servers existed
this "allows" for 0 to very minimal abuse and is negligible imo

[slate flume]

^

[upper vapor]

they're gonna ban you for not listening to them
okay now you have to implement ban appeals

[slate flume]

Lmao if a staff member bans me for it good

[upper vapor]

does cedmod have ban appeals?

[slate flume]

I don't wanna play on a fuckass server like that anyways

[upper vapor]

if yes then you can get more users

[harsh thorn]

i understand there may be "small cases" but ive told you 5 times before we dont mind adding something to achieve what you wanted via alternatives if its truly important for player safety/moderation or other leading reason

Ive tried working with you to achieve a solution for text chat, proximity chat, etc as that can be important for players, sure
things like mouth moving when talking is like extremely minimal and you could compare it to a muted person following you around and jumping around you

if you have a poblem with the decision and see it may impact your dev work, then say how it impacts your work and how we could solve it in a way where both parties are happy
For prox chat, text chat, etc the alternatives would be as much work as an if check, technically even less lines for you to write

if all i get is "i dont agree" then i cant help you work out a alternative that works for you, and you will only get what we think works or covers all basis

[slate flume]

Cedric no offense dog but your argument is going nowhere and I'm not going to concede on this
You keep waffling about how you're "Doing your best to accommodate us" and "Trying your best to prevent abuses" but at the end of the day you're taking drastic action against non-issues
You're implementing half-measures that will never address every use case

What's the point of a modder framework if you don't give us room to work with -type shit

[harsh thorn]

then we will not reach a compromise, and this argument is closed

if you have a need for something that absolutely requires client mutes. make a suggestion that explaisn the situation and we can work something out

[slate flume]

I know we won't compromise, doesn't mean I won't express my discontent with your decision-making since this topic keeps getting brought up

[harsh thorn]

just saying "this is a half measure" will not achieve what you want

[slate flume]

No because you guys have no balls

[harsh thorn]

just throwing insults is definetely not going to achieve what you want

[slate flume]

What I want isn't happening cedric

You and NW higher-ups have made that abundantly clear, because you have no trust or faith in us and your world view is heavily skewed

[harsh thorn]

you are misinterpreting the decision
its not that we dont trust you theres about 1100 servers listed with a lot more people than just you

[slate flume]

Yeah and you're acting like letting us view mutes is gonna be fucking WW3 dawg

It's crazy that you're so insistent on that view

It's wild that you can't see outside of that

"Yeah we'll do 15 different PRs to fix an issue and increase the workload because a server might ban a player for muting a staff member or some shit"

Like are we deadass?

[harsh thorn]

look man. ive presented means that can achieve a compromise
you keep battering me for the decision i made, instead of trying to work out something that gets you what you want in a way that both parties are happy

the decision itself will not be changing, so i recommend you try to view it from a different pov of what else can be done

[slate flume]

Right back to

We're just going in big circles because you have no comprehension of how ridiculous your decisions are

[upper vapor]

everybody leave and think about it for 30 minutes

peak relationship advice btw

[slate flume]

I've got literally nothing else going on lmao that's the only reason I'm here arguing about NW politics

[harsh thorn]

im sorry but arguing that not having client mutes is in no way indicative that "we dont give you any room to work with" when in reality its 1 feature were talking about

And i find it deeply dissapointed that after ive personally leaded the creation of the labapi project that its being written down like that

[slate flume]

I think it's emblematic of a larger issue prevalent in the NW sphere here

I think your guys' attitudes to these things is a poor attitude to have when working on something for a community to use to expand upon your game

When I first entered the SL space back in the NWAPI days I had a lot of respect for you guys, but then shit like this happens and I lose faith

[hearty shard]

what the fuck did i tab into

im going back to sleep

[restive turret]

Wise decision

[slate flume]

At this point I have way more respect for developers like EVE, Cyn, Axwabo, and SlejmUr than I do for any NW higher-ups

[hearty shard]

Honk shoo mimi

[harsh thorn]

again, you are referring to a single feature as if it has devastated the ability to work on plugins
after the fact that multiple ways to achieve what was used in the original request were highlighted

if all i get is flack for the decision (sure you can disagree, but throwing insults such as "you have no balls" wont achieve anything other than me giving up in trying to work out a compromise as im just flat out being disrespected here)

then i cant do much more for you

[slate flume]

^

It's comical

You just keep making the same argument over and over as if it changes anything

[glad pagoda]

i mean you're doing the same

[slate flume]

The only reason we're here again is because Cyn was talking about it and you felt the need to re-express the exact same rhetoric you've been spieling for ages

[slate flume]

Yeah because he keeps replying as if it makes his point

I know you guys don't respect my viewpoint

But I will keep stating it as long as this gets dragged out

[harsh thorn]

i keep telling anyone what we will do
but if all i get is "but we want client mutes directly" then i cannot do more than repeat myself

if thats all i will get, then we can stop talking as it will not go anywhere

[slate flume]

If you're done dogging on people for disagreeing with your decision-making then I'm done arguing about it

[harsh thorn]

i have not dogged on anyone for disagreeing

ive simply explained the viewpoints leading to the decision
if you view that as dogging on someone then im sorry my message has introduced that impression

[slate flume]

Okay man sure

[hearty shard]

https://tenor.com/view/you-smell-stinky-you-stinky-you-stink-wow-gif-24104350

[celest thorn]

Wtf is going on lol

I clean my pc because of blender

[slate flume]

I was arguing with Cedric again

[celest thorn]

Not surprised

All respect to ced but i think i gave a good solution to the problem

Tbh

[restive turret]

My solution is

[upper vapor]

[celest thorn]

Leaving the game and bullet

[pallid summit]

My solution is we explode the sun for scientific purposes tomorrow

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/trade-offer-dungeons-and-fakultet-gif-24324825

[celest thorn]

But yea the best view that could accomodate both us and nw i think is adding a tag with the player id

It seems like the easiest solution in my opinion

[restive turret]

Zero

[celest thorn]

What

[restive turret]

Chicken butt

[celest thorn]

Maro yesterday did the same thing

Bruh

Im waiting for like the mouse pad to be dry

So i cannot do shit

[pallid summit]

the one thing I don't understand is that you can already see people's IP addresses and combined with the fact that the most popular servers ban VPN's means you have access to quite sensitive data as a server owner. I struggle to see how that is less bad than knowing if someone muted someone else

if a server owner were to have malicious intent, I think knowing about mutes is the least of your problems

[slate flume]

100%

Though according to Cedric access to other sensitive data doesn't negate the "issues" brought up by client mutes, and that IPs are necessary info that can be weaponized, while client mutes aren't necessary

[harsh thorn]

A server can already see someones ip address because they have to know it
as well, they cant reply to a player without knowing what the ip is, theres no way around that

however, you have said it, you can use a vpn and then they can know your ip but it is useless as its some random vpn server
and well, knowing an ip isnt all that powerful either, you get an estimate location or could use it for ddosing

but that doesnt mean we should just provide other kinds of info that can be used against someone just because they already have ips

[slate flume]

So exactly what I just summarized

Epic

Had this argument so many times I can predict his responses

[pallid summit]

I understand but then doesn't a vpn ban increase the risk the same way? I don't know how alt detection works but there are plenty of games out there that have alt detection and still allow vpn's

VPN bans improve moderation quality but so does knowing who has muted who

[harsh thorn]

most servers that ban vpns offer whitelists, those using cedmod are under the global whitelist system

if a server doesnt want to accept your request when you submit one for "i dont want people knowing my IP" then that would be a bit odd

[harsh thorn]

how does knowing who has someone muted improve the ability to moderate, im curious

[slate flume]

Well there is an argument to be made relating to verbal warnings

[harsh thorn]

as the original request was for text chat and scp proximity
this was compromised with concepts of tools for speakertoys and text chats with special rich text tags and displaykit proprties that achieve all the requested concerns

[slate flume]

Also just because the server knows the IP, doesn't mean the staff have to know it too, just saying

You guys expose it anyways

[harsh thorn]

???

the only one that knows the ip is the server, those with permission can obtain it using a RA command

[slate flume]

Literally big ass request IP button

[harsh thorn]

its behind a separate permission?

[celest thorn]

Yes

[slate flume]

Which is still exposing it to staff members?

[upper vapor]

it's the owner's choice whether to give that kind of access to staff

they don't have to

[pallid summit]

Verbal warnings yeah, if I were a server mod I would like to know if someone were to be able to hear me for warns. Also, in general it's nice for communication while playing (if some nieche servers want to RP with mutes or smth)
I don't think it's a huge improvement for modding but the risk is also so minimal that I doubt you would get much trouble

[celest thorn]

I’ve seen so many people not giving it and just giving the auth request one

Because at the end cedmod does everything 90%

And who doesn’t have cedmod other ways

[slate flume]

You'd think the same accommodation could be made for mutes but it's too big of a security risk apparently

[harsh thorn]

heres the difference

if we remove request ip under security concerns
someone who wants to abuse it will just readd it

as opposed to you litterally not having the info

[pallid summit]

oh well, that is enough serious talk for today. It's weekend

[upper vapor]

one last thing i'll add
plugin devs would need 3 different kinds of muting stuff

• text toys
• speaker toys
• displaykit elements
  that means 3 different features have to be implemented, each of which plugin devs will have to separately tap into
  and knowing the process of getting PRs merged in is not looking too great
  sure, 3 things can be added gradually

[slate flume]

1000%

[pallid summit]

back to vagueposting outer wilds

[celest thorn]

Idk with mutes im 100% sure it would lead to harassment from staff especially roleplay one damn they take it as a job

If you mute one of them they come in like bees to you

[harsh thorn]

if the demand is high im sure beryl can arrange something to have them merged together in speedy fashion

so i dont see that as a problem

it wouldnt be any faster than adding access to client mutes

[celest thorn]

The first demand is those damn triangles lol

One day

[harsh thorn]

i still dont know what you guys are planning to do with triangles

[celest thorn]

Alot

[slate flume]

It's especially interesting because it's not even that hard to find out in-game if someone muted you, you literally just say something to them

[celest thorn]

Like 90% of the hub uses triangles made so shit

[slate flume]

They want vertex positioning with triangles to make arbitrary meshes

[celest thorn]

And if cut we cut on 400 prim

Already

[harsh thorn]

im sure the client will love that peformance wise

[celest thorn]

Go check atoh runs better than sl lol

[harsh thorn]

crazy

[celest thorn]

Because im schizophrenic and managed to make algos and shit to optimize everything as much as i could

But only thing i cannot optimize

A banana picture

[harsh thorn]

the concept of ignoring people

[celest thorn]

[slate flume]

It's essentially the same thing lmao

The point is that they're not listening either way

[celest thorn]

Have you ever muted those annoying little rascals going around sl and screaming

[harsh thorn]

they'd need to guess if they are muted or not
as opposed to just having the client tell the server "yeah i muted this this and that person"

[celest thorn]

Some of them are staff

And ngl i know they would bother anyone who mute them

There are other ways in my opinion to do it

But one of them is not a networkmessage

With the people you muted

[slate flume]

It's either they muted you or they're ignoring you
Either way is conceptually the same

It still leads to the same "harassment issues"

[celest thorn]

I tend to disagree with nw but this time i agree (crazy word from me)

[celest thorn]

Its less they would leave it because there’s no certainty that you muted them

Instead a system says “i muted you”

Is gonna be easier for them to tell and maybe even take action

People are stupid

[slate flume]

Would it not illicit the same reaction if a player is ignoring you? Very odd take you're presenting

[celest thorn]

I honestly don’t care

[harsh thorn]

like, i can see you want to use mutes in your plugins for certain things
so im open for suggestions on ways that can achieve what you want

getting them added in labapi would be most likely just as fast as adding "tell the server who client has muted" so that isnt a problem at all process wise
and if needed i can even go as far as talking with beryl to have it prioritized

[celest thorn]

Tbh my take would be Owner for some objects and having a tag

Easier for everyone

[slate flume]

Neither do I, the argument you're presenting is that there are people who do and that they will start abusing people more if this feature was added

[celest thorn]

They would

Idk if you ever played sl

[harsh thorn]

i mentiond 3 things so far

something for speakertoys
something for rich text with a tag
and something to make displaykit elements not show

[celest thorn]

But people are toxic and power tripping

[slate flume]

I feel you've missed the essence of everything I've been saying

[celest thorn]

Idk it seems he didn’t

[slate flume]

Then you've missed the point too

[harsh thorn]

you disagree with the decision, thats fine
im not going to argue about the decision, im done with that

im open to come to a compromise, but im not going to be talking about the decision

[celest thorn]

Which is then?

[slate flume]

^

[celest thorn]

I mean he is adressing it

[slate flume]

He's not

Lmao

[celest thorn]

And actually made a compromise is really good

The thing is you need to see it even as a privacy thing

[slate flume]

So you've again missed the point of what I'm saying

[celest thorn]

Bro instead of being general say what i’ve missed

Maybe im wrong

And i did

[slate flume]

^

[celest thorn]

I read it 2 times

And cannot understand what ced did wrong

[slate flume]

Okay bro whatever

[celest thorn]

Ok what you want then?

[slate flume]

If you can't see how ridiculous this is then it's a lost cause

[celest thorn]

Like

[celest thorn]

I see a perfect solution that doesn’t expose people and gives what you wanted

[slate flume]

It, again, doesn't address every use case

My whole goddamn point

[celest thorn]

Oh then you mean like

If someone draws with a

Prim

Or something?

[slate flume]

Literally any exception to the ideas cedric has had is an exception

[celest thorn]

I mean those are meant for staff

[slate flume]

There will always be something niche not covered by what has been proposed

[celest thorn]

Not for you

[harsh thorn]

ok so, magic idea
if you believe something doesnt work with the ideas i presented
give me more ideas

[celest thorn]

Bullets could be a problem

But like its unrealistic

[slate flume]

Bro literally why add 15 billion implements when you could just add 1 and save everyone the headache

[celest thorn]

Even the clan doesn’t do that shit to annoy people

[harsh thorn]

we could even do this in the basegame without the need of plugins

[celest thorn]

YEA

like lol

You are going out of your way even those fuckers of the clan don’t

[harsh thorn]

because accessing client mutes isnt happening, so you will need to work with alternatives

[upper vapor]

Add a ReferenceHub in SendSpawnMessage (or to every object) so the gameobject gets deactivated on the client

[celest thorn]

Performance

[upper vapor]

This was meant to be a troll idea

[slate flume]

I know Cedric, you've made this abundantly clear
Yet you still feel the need to say over and over and over again

You keep butting in whenever people talk about it

[celest thorn]

Bro you are the one saying he didn’t understand your point lol

[slate flume]

Literally stfu

[harsh thorn]

you asked me why add 15 billion workarounds when there is 1 solution

i told you why

[slate flume]

He does understand my point he just doesn't care

[celest thorn]

He is trying to help you out lol

[slate flume]

No he's not

[celest thorn]

He is

And actively open to dialogue

[harsh thorn]

if i wasnt trying to help i would have just said "no workarounds, nothing"

[celest thorn]

On a solution for other cases

[slate flume]

I literally wasn't talking to you and you still decided to butt into the conversation because it was regarding me disagreeing with you

I didn't ask bro

I know your viewpoint

[celest thorn]

[harsh thorn]

you...
litterally pinged me

[celest thorn]

So which would be the other point that you could use to harrass people??

[spare zodiac]

answer is not ping

[celest thorn]

Like bullets

[harsh thorn]

ping was on

i have yellow box

[slate flume]

Literally right here

[spare zodiac]

oh yea I didn't see it

[celest thorn]

Bro spit them

[harsh thorn]

bullets, sure
we can make clients dissapear bullets sent by muted people

not a problem

[celest thorn]

Pov no more dicks

[slate flume]

I was talking to zer0two and you decided to butt in because you had some more "rivetting commentary" I'm tired of your bullshit cedric

[harsh thorn]

if you dont want me to respond dont reply to my message with a ping

[slate flume]

BRO

[celest thorn]

Idk you are too aggressive go calm down take your time

Just relax

[harsh thorn]

like, you replied to my message, with ping on
with a question

i answered it

[celest thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/hat-kid-a-hat-in-time-smug-dance-smug-dance-moves-gif-16838114

[hearty shard]

@spring swan is this you

[celest thorn]

Yea

Its hat kid

[harsh thorn]

im perfectly in my right to reply to a convo that is litterally about me or about something i did

i do not need to be asked

[slate flume]

Fucking exactly what I said

[hearty shard]

Tech

Can you chill

[slate flume]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1086535274877694002/1233238740722389023/caption-3-2.gif

[harsh thorn]

like, you have first insulted me before
then you get aggressive when i reply to something in a convo that i was actively partaking in, to a message that is directly about me
just chill dude

again, you were telling zero the exact thing that i have said 5 times already, if there is a supposed niche case, then ask for a solution to that niche case and if one is needed because it actually impacts QOL we can see how we can achieve t hat

im trying to get solutions implemented so people have what they want, not having a fight

[slate flume]

Yeah it's cause I don't respect you

[celest thorn]

Thats crazy

[slate flume]

It's true

[celest thorn]

Then ig block him

And no feature

Lol

[hearty shard]

I dont think this deserves insults and insults

[celest thorn]

But i would say calm down

[hearty shard]

like zero said, a block is better

[celest thorn]

And go take some relaxing

https://tenor.com/view/hat-kid-a-hat-in-time-smug-dance-smug-dance-moves-gif-16838114

[upper vapor]

Go spot some trains like I'm doing

[celest thorn]

Wtf

[hearty shard]

r u autistic

[upper vapor]

Yes I'm acoustic

[celest thorn]

Yes

[upper vapor]

It's track closure time so

[celest thorn]

Wtf is today

[slate flume]

I mean I feel that my last comment was less of an insult and more of a statement

[upper vapor]

Special occasion

[celest thorn]

Im agreeing with nw and nameless

What

Next what

[hearty shard]

its more what ive seen in chat since i woke up til now

[upper vapor]

Snow

[hearty shard]

not a specific one

[celest thorn]

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SNOWWW

[slate flume]

Fair

[celest thorn]

it would be the first time in my life

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/those-who-snow-those-who-snow-cat-gif-6299750748532064860

[hearty shard]

it snowed yesterday lel

[harsh thorn]

taking it out on me in this discord is the wrong place then
you can have no respect for me whatever, but im trying to be civil here to come to a solution despite all the disrespect

so we can have a normal conversation and come to a resolution, or not and you dont get a solution besides what i already listed

[slate flume]

https://klipy.com/gifs/update-is-almost-ready-alien

[celest thorn]

You aren’t opened to a dialogue so its not even worth taking it

[celest thorn]

Like i said in dms to axwabo in 8 years i’ve been in this community this is the most i’ve seen a nw staff talk about a solution

[slate flume]

It's less that I'm taking it out on you and more expressing my dislike for the decisions you've made

[restive turret]

Please stop, we arent going nowhere

[celest thorn]

True

[slate flume]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ironlungfilm-NnJvVFjR5z4n14cNHZ

[upper vapor]

Yeah cuz the bus driver forgot to open the doors at the terminus

[slate flume]

The engine is on fire and we're cooked

[celest thorn]

Tbh it seems like you hate ced so much but he didn’t do shit to you like your his n.1 opp but he doesn’t even know

[slate flume]

Literally was mostly indifferent towards him before he started on ts last month

I keep talking about how I dislike his decisions and he keeps feeling the need to butt in when I do

[celest thorn]

Idk bro he is giving you solutions and open to dialogue on some stuff they could be missing out that could be used or abused

[celest thorn]

But thats not how you take a dialogue

[slate flume]

I didn't want a dialogue bro

I dislike his decision, he thinks his decision was spectacular

He keeps replying whenever anyone talks about not liking the decision

[celest thorn]

SO THEN WHY EVEN BOTHER CONTINUING THIS CONVO LOL

[slate flume]

Because he kept replying

[celest thorn]

Like serious

[slate flume]

And I've got nothing better to do

[celest thorn]

You keep naming him

[celest thorn]

Ngl bro im telling you this advice like a sis

Go take a nap

Clear your mind

[slate flume]

Why?

[celest thorn]

Touch grass

And then we can talk

[slate flume]

I just got a plate of spaghetti bro

[celest thorn]

Like calm down

[slate flume]

I'm calm dog

You think I have to be angry and heated to disagree with someone or not like them?

[celest thorn]

It seems uou do

[slate flume]

Why?

If I was angry I'd probably be typing out a bunch of messages detailing how angry I am in all caps

Only reason we're here rn is because he felt the need to butt in when Cyn was talking about this

Otherwise I wouldn't be talking about it again

Only time I talk about this stuff is when Cedric brings it up again

Just so happens that he brings it up a lot

[slate flume]

I made this really good spaghetti though it's actually epic

Hits the spot fr

[celest thorn]

Idk it seems like you hate him and thats it

[slate flume]

I don't hate him

I just don't respect him

There's a difference

[celest thorn]

Idk insulting someone and saying you don’t have respect seems hating to me

[slate flume]

Hate is a strong word

People in authority generally expect you to have blind respect for authority, their position, and their decision making
Not enough people criticize those in charge, and it's almost never the case that people in charge actually listen to those below them
When I initially talked to Cedric about this I pointed out how I, team members, and other community members disagreed with his decisions, and I told him he should discuss it with the others before coming to a conclusion
In response, he hit me with this

He made other similar statements

I lost respect for Cedric after that argument

I don't hate the man but I don't respect what he does like I used to

I've always been the type to voice my disapproval and discontent, regardless of situation
Every time this stuff gets brought back up by someone, I talk about my opinion on the matter

I can see why you think I hate him, but to me there's a difference between hating someone and hating the decisions they make
While those two things are related, they're not equivalent

[hearty shard]

@harsh thorn can you add brainrot to cedmod

just replace everything with brainrot randomly

[harsh thorn]

i will pass it on the the UI rework guy 👍

[hearty shard]

0.67% chance to occur ofc

[hearty shard]

the flip?

isnt that your clone

[harsh thorn]

no, i hired a friend to rework panel ui

cuz im not a ui designer

[hearty shard]

i see

[harsh thorn]

i think hes cooking

[hearty shard]

give them 5 cents

[harsh thorn]

considering payment

[hearty shard]

its a good payment

although it might be a bit too much

[sharp hedge]

yeah i agree i think 4.5 is better

[upper vapor]

4.5 what? Potatoes?

[sharp hedge]

thats correct

[violet basin]

https://tenor.com/view/jalen-hurts-jalen-hurts-meek-mill-i-used-to-pray-for-times-like-this-gif-13709870523385828441

One day we WILL maybe get moderator statistics back

[harsh thorn]

is it in the suggestions channel, cuz he looks at the channel to see what he could add

[violet basin]

Idk I just remember having the mod stats feature before you ripped it away in ancient times

[harsh thorn]

make suggestion detailing what you want in such page, so he can add it

[violet basin]

https://tenor.com/view/maybe-dick-figures-troll-face-smirk-gif-15630517

[slate flume]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/582277502576361487/1373667759426244730/togif.gif

[tired charm]

maybe yall could make a player setting where the player can decide wheter to share the mutes with the server or not similar to dnt

my idea

[harsh thorn]

that idea was brought up, but at that point we'd rather just implement a solution that works all the time rather than "if the user has it enablerd"

[formal estuary]

Enablerd

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/obanma-obama-trump-minnesota-meme-gif-17010502421668242710

[warped prairie]

im reading this back. and I find it insane how instead of just giving devs open and easy access to features and putting better guidelines on abuse we do this rigamaroll with workarounds and measures that may prevent abuse. I'm not trying to diminish S&C here but like if they are abusing it, why not simply just ban them (and i know its not that simple but like why cant we just set out standards and enforce them instead of hurting hard working plugin devs who volunteer their time to make their game experience better). hurting the majority because the SMALL minority could possibly do bad is not the play in my eyes. Northwood in general (which does not align to any particular) seems to me to have this philosophy of restricting a LOT of stuff for the "prevention of abuse" so much so that its hurting more people then its helping. maybe im misreading this, but it seems a lot more convoluted than it needs to be. I understand why ThatGuy is pushing back on this because it seems this isn't an isolated incident.

anyway thats my 2 cents in. Im putting this down to rest now and wont be bothering with it after

[celest thorn]

Im honestly gonna answer just like i did before, i think in this case nw is right, you would put a risk people privacy even if it is a small selected people, its enough to bother people and i think in this case is correct to take precautions. people even if they don't want to they see for example on a plugin "This guy muted you" and just be more aggressive towards that person for anything im not saying its everyone but those percentage of people, because i think S&C has more cases, adding new one for privacy and stuff would be more work, how would they even verify that? i think its correct in this case put a precaution because server like this could be still up with that because of the nature of the feature and the people who enforce it if they know its a nw staff they would 100% not do it and the report would be invalidated so ig even to a point of management its correct it wouldn't be done and just concentrate on cases like DNT etc...

[warped prairie]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ill agree to disagree with ye on it. ive seen how lacking in productive often conversations have been so best i not stir the pot

[celest thorn]

true

[warped prairie]

i chip my 2 cents and call it a day

[celest thorn]

lol

[harsh thorn]

Like i said, im all for working out a solution so devs can have feature working as intended

but "decision bad" is not going to be the point or argument that im going to engage in nor will such discussions actually go anywhere

[celest thorn]

i was doing this

[warped prairie]

ayy thats fire

[celest thorn]

i finally improved my composition

and i think it looks good

tomorrow finally model lights fixed lol

[warped prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meme-cat-eating-burger-gif-27559411

[upper vapor]

any powershell experts here?

i have to deal with stupid fucking windows

[icy knoll]

zsh >>>>>

or fish

[upper vapor]

me when

doing stuff on a clean windows installation

(it's pain)

i just wanna unzip a file 😭

[icy knoll]

i usually just get claude to do powershell stuff

lol

[upper vapor]

okay powershell expert thanks

[unique crane]

Install winrar

[hearty shard]

guh

[icy knoll]

7zip instead

[warped prairie]

uninstall system32

[upper vapor]

without installing anything

i need native tools

[hearty shard]

i hate windows so much

[upper vapor]

find an item in the archive then unzip

[upper vapor]

someone gets it

[harsh thorn]

is it a zip file?

windows has context menu tool to unzip

[hearty shard]

no like

[upper vapor]

i need to do it programmatically

[harsh thorn]

hmm

[hearty shard]

its using 6 GB in the background, and im using 5GB

for RAM

[icy knoll]

they said programatically 😭

[harsh thorn]

yeah just ask an llm

[harsh thorn]

im eating pizza, didnt read

[hearty shard]

and its pissing me off that 16GB feels like so little on windows 😭

[upper vapor]

😭 fine i'll do it myself

[upper vapor]

i wrote that after ced responded

[upper vapor]

16 GB is not enough to develop SL on linux (but it's fine on windows)

soooooo

[hearty shard]

WHAT

[upper vapor]

if i have anything else open

unity just hogs up all the ram

[icy knoll]

this is a skill issue btw

i dont have this issue

[upper vapor]

might be

[harsh thorn]

tbf, windows eats away at unused memory. but when you go to use it, itl release it

thats what ive seen often

[hearty shard]

oh

okay :D

[upper vapor]

yeah but

[hearty shard]

why does it do that lmao

[harsh thorn]

no idea

[upper vapor]

how many background services does one need

[harsh thorn]

kernel shenanigans

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-notebook-gif-20708336

[hearty shard]

microsoft moment

[harsh thorn]

i started a game with 10gb "remaining"

but magically the game was able to start using 32gb

which game needs 32gb you may ask
star citizen ofcourse

[upper vapor]

yeah uhhh

now i get it why windows creates a large page file

i was struggling with 8GB of swap on linux

[harsh thorn]

like

this usage is a lie

lmao

[upper vapor]

closing unity

closing SL

[hearty shard]

i love windows

[harsh thorn]

like, userspace programs is at most 10gb rn

and i doubt itd be using 30gb for services 😭

[harsh thorn]

that windows looks awfully..... linuxy

[hearty shard]

good

the way it should be

[harsh thorn]

would be tempted to switch to linux if half the shit i did didnt require windows

[hearty shard]

for reference its https://seelen.io/
it uses about 400MB of RAM, and maybe like 1% of CPU/GPU usage

at least on my own machine

some bugs here and there but overall it feels pretty good

[grand flower]

I'm not gonna dive into the discussion again because it seems like a lot of other devs here pretty much already talked about all of it.

But instead of just trying to "cover all arguments", you could just give access to mutes. Hell even just as "Player.HasMuted(OtherPlayer)"

[celest thorn]

[grand flower]

Literally no reason not to, especially not security reasons

[grand flower]

What

[celest thorn]

ced already said it he wants a client side solution

so that people cannot check

and maybe harrass

thats why the entire talk started

[grand flower]

"people cannot check/harrass" is stupid

[celest thorn]

tbh i agree with ced

[grand flower]

It's policing for the sake of policing

[celest thorn]

wait a sec that im killing a mossad jet

[grand flower]

There is no security risk

[celest thorn]

https://i.e-z.host/🐀/aormhc5u.png

FUCK

ok

[celest thorn]

there is

[grand flower]

"What if a server uses it to harass players" not your problem?? That's a shitty server that will die on its own

[celest thorn]

and its called privacy

[grand flower]

That's not a security risk

[celest thorn]

idk in this case its a security measure i like

like

people are stupid

[grand flower]

Not a security risk

[celest thorn]

and as i said here

[celest thorn]

.

[grand flower]

People are stupid is dumb

[celest thorn]

i think its done more for the reports

and that seems the case

[grand flower]

"we're protecting you from yourselves" is not the win you think it is

[celest thorn]

idk whats the big deal of not having but having it on the client

like the 90% of communication method are cut

like whats the other use case if you would have it on the server?

because i think ced would be helpful and add it

i just see collaboration

[grand flower]

Do we need a reason though? that's just preventing creativity. What about that plugin that adds text chatting? perfect use case for accessing mutes

[celest thorn]

as ced said

[hearty shard]

the point was adding it to client

[celest thorn]

the client will manage that

and with a tag or other ways

[hearty shard]

so you TextToy::SpeakerId or wtv

[celest thorn]

the text would get removed

like thats the entire point

nothing is bad

that would be possible

as he said

for textotys, everything

idk why you guys think this limits your creativity

if you can find a way that it could be used for communication

report it to nw

easy

[grand flower]

I guess that works. but also, again, why try to "protect us against ourselves". Additionally, and it's more for the sake of showing that this kind of thinking is detrimental, not being able to check before computing something means you're making the server do useless work even the client will just ignore it.

Which is pretty damn relevant on a high pop server

[hearty shard]

thats only the case if youre only showing a msg to one specific player no ?

[celest thorn]

on that im with you

but its not that deep

like im for optimization

[grand flower]

I know Northwood does not care about high pop servers but still, you see what I mean right

[celest thorn]

but anyways this game sucks on that

[celest thorn]

Yes but they offered both of you a solution

and you are just stuck at your point

[grand flower]

Which is why any tiny win is huge here hah

[celest thorn]

Bro i've wished for 6 years triangle primitives

and still after 6 years im here

because some dumb people think its stupid

so

atleast you should be glad someone is listening to you

and its rare as i said many times

[grand flower]

No my point is that Northwood loves trying to assert control over servers. Be it through rules or refusing to add things because they think server hosts and plugin devs are children that need protecting from their own stupidity

[celest thorn]

they are

trust me

[grand flower]

Using "whataboutisms" as a reason

[celest thorn]

im sorry to break your buble but this game is full of kids

and full of idiots

you could be smart

but 70% of the other no

[grand flower]

Go ahead and insult us devs, you're a perfect fit for NW

[celest thorn]

its a risk for everyone

[grand flower]

[celest thorn]

idk check my messages

and see fuck nw

how many time i said it

more than you

and anyone here

[grand flower]

Yeah no that's not to be celebrated, when your game has a large amount of player population that play on modded servers, you'd better listen to modders.

[grand flower]

[celest thorn]

yes but you see

here works that you get a deal or nothing

and i would take the deal

[grand flower]

Granted I do not tend to have my more angry arguments about NW here out of respect

[celest thorn]

you don't win

its 2 choises

you get what you want even limited

or you get nothing

and tbh limited is not

[grand flower]

"you will be happy about what we give you" again not a win lol

[celest thorn]

if i think how they would implement it, it fits 90% of the cases

[hearty shard]

💀

[celest thorn]

bro trust me, you don't win

doing this

be happy that they are even considering you

imma be honest

[grand flower]

Not even kidding, it has to be a requirement that you suddenly think you're always right and modded servers are a plague that cant be trusted

[celest thorn]

culling toys

took me talking and showing hubert

atoh

to get them

so

i asked polite and explained my point

hubert said "thats amazing"

and he worked on it

[grand flower]

I gave up on winning with NW long ago, why do you think I'm making my own game lol

I still like SL and it sucks to see things like this happen. I feel like I poured a lot of my time and effort into this community, helping out other plugin devs.

[celest thorn]

SL suck and we all know

why do you think me and maro left making tournaments

like bro

[grand flower]

But it could be better

[celest thorn]

i understand you

but you don't win the war

[grand flower]

It's not doomed to be the way it is

[celest thorn]

tbh the reward in this game is litteraly 0 compared to the effort

i have fun torturing myself with solutions

so

[grand flower]

The reason it's this way right now is because NW pulls crap like this and people like you are like "yeah but it's NW so it's normal and we should be happy and not complain".

No offense but that's how you keep the status quo instead of trying to improve things

[celest thorn]

idk if you understand but im tired as much as you lol

its just giving up

because anyways they win

[grand flower]

I get that, but you gave up trying too heh

Yeah

[celest thorn]

but still sometimes they listen

so

its good you give effort

but here its a lost cause

[grand flower]

I see your point but "sometimes they listen" doesn't mean the other failures from NW are acceptable IMO

[celest thorn]

and i agree with them

[grand flower]

Their game, they're free to fuck it up all they want but it's disheartening to see

[celest thorn]

because ngl i see already children screaming about being muted

[grand flower]

So what play on another server

[celest thorn]

there aren't many server active

if you see one

[grand flower]

There are a ton of shitty servers, you just change if one sucks

[celest thorn]

is already a miracle

[grand flower]

There's a good amount and honestly it shouldn't be an argument why this idea is bad

[celest thorn]

the only thing i could see maybe a problem

is like i said

privacy

laws in eu are strict

so the user would give consent

to share that info

so you go back to the problem

[upper vapor]

even you had to implement your own muting system, no?

[celest thorn]

i never did

[upper vapor]

right

[celest thorn]

because i said its stupid

and you can disable chat

or if enough people ask for a way to disable it

i will do that

[grand flower]

I'm sorry mutes are not PII

You cannot bring up GDPR into this lmfao

[celest thorn]

im doing a supposition

tbh

i really needed to check

[grand flower]

Not the case

[celest thorn]

but anyways i don't control nw

im desperate as much as you

to get a triangle on the game

so

[grand flower]

There's nothing that stops NW from doing it, just themselves

[grand flower]

not happening lets be real

[celest thorn]

bro

[grand flower]

What are they gonna do, network every triangle

[celest thorn]

MOST VOTED on labapi

IMMA BE HONEST

if it doesn't happen

[grand flower]

yeah but until they decide to add clientside missing (never) i don't think it's happening

[celest thorn]

labapi is cooked

[upper vapor]

show me the law that mandates that "if you wanna prevent x from communicating with you in a unity game, you have to tick every 32473527592 checkbox"

[grand flower]

kek

[grand flower]

Make your own game and add that support

[upper vapor]

"too much effort"

[grand flower]

It is tbh

[celest thorn]

bro tbh im enjoying translating on a game and helping the dev out with optimization etc...

really fun

[grand flower]

But I have the modding framework ready and almost done with Steam so it'll be nice

[celest thorn]

at mod sponsor

btw i wanna see 15.0

tbh

[grand flower]

Hey if I'm making my own I'm not going with arbitrary limits lol

[celest thorn]

all of the russian 18+ goon places

[grand flower]

I have client modding ready too with the server sending scripts to clients that connect

[celest thorn]

Oh no gmod 2.0

the ass incident

[grand flower]

Oh no my lobster is too buttery

[harsh thorn]

ive said it before, im going to say it again
sorry but client mute access will not be happening as it will simply be abused, not saying you will, but theres other people that host servers too.
as i do see that you could have use cases for client mutes, i am once again saying that i do not mind adding a solution that will achieve what you want (eg for text chat, etc)
why do you still need client mute access when features that accommodate for use cases suggested to us are added?

[grand flower]

Are you going to cover every edge case, every new scenario where a developer needs it that doesn't have it atm?

How fast are you going to cover that scenario

Instead of just giving a method

Like your solution works yes, my point is: why is that even required ced?

Why do you trust plugin devs and server hosts so little

Y'all do realise how it reflects on NW when they treat developers like kids that do not know what they're doing, right?

"What if someone abuses it?" Extremely unlikely scenario, but:

• The server is ass and will die by itself.
• Just shove it under VSR if you're that concerned, as much as I dont like it, it would probably be a good reason to for your apparently-very-frequent-scenario where all server hosts are abusive pieces of shit that power trip a lot.

[harsh thorn]

its not that i dont "trust" plugin devs or hosts, its the other side of the coin with what i said about abuse

unfortunately plugin developers are also affected by limitations from that, which is why im trying to offer solutions so you can do what you wanted, and so we dont have to worry about abuse.

if theres an edge case that i didnt cover:
speakertoys::sendas
textchat - rich text tag that hides text
textchat - displaykit element

then suggest a solution for that edge case and it can be added alongside that

[harsh thorn]

its more so we can prevent the whole problem alltogether by not adding it, and providing you with a solution that lets you achieve what you wanted client mute access for

[grand flower]

Alright so I'm gonna make a plugin where players have to type a console command with a unique id that shows up in a text toy in front of them

If they dont I'm gonna assume they muted the speaker id I set for the text toy and I'll abuse them

I'm somewhat joking for this, it wont happen let's be real

But you can see what I'm going for I think

Sure your limitations could reduce the chance of abuse, but the chance of abuse is already insanely low to even be considered

[restive turret]

They aint do shit, even if "Yo check yo server specific settings man!"

[upper vapor]

5 different SSSS categorise

[celest thorn]

SO TRUE

[upper vapor]

i love

[celest thorn]

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[harsh thorn]

you can assume the risk is low, sure, ive seen other things in the S&C cases i viewed
again, im not going to argue on the decision itself, im done with that

i want to provide means so you have the ability to make the plugins you want to make
and i have no issue in actually working out solutions that achieve the goal a dev has without introducing the risk we do not want to add

[hollow remnant]

How can I make the speaker's name appear on the right side of AudioPlayerApi? Like Global Intercom, for example.

[celest thorn]

yo ced

can you make public all of the bans for S&C like the EU

[upper vapor]

i don't think you can use AudioPlayerApi for that

[celest thorn]

i wanna see

[upper vapor]

either use hints or use a dummy and send VoiceMessages

SecretLabNAudio has support for the latter

[hollow remnant]

[celest thorn]

We love secretlabNAudio

even tho my 2 nanoseconds

[upper vapor]

i'm trying to cook up something but WINDOWS is so STUPID

[grand flower]

What's the risk exactly? Is it just the potential for abusing someone that has muted you, or is there more?

I feel like I'm missing something and I kinda hope I do

[celest thorn]

Skill issue

my popcorn

have ended

so wait a sec

before starting another argument :3

[grand flower]

And FYI, Garry's Mod has that ability, and I have never seen it be "abused" this way or heard about it like that. That game has client mods and networking.

[celest thorn]

garry's mod...

[grand flower]

If it doesn't get abused on Garry's Mod with the amount of players and servers it has, what makes you think SL is any different

[restive turret]

rdm rdm rdm!

[celest thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/rdm-garrys-mod-gmod-rdm-rdm-rdm-rdm-roblox-gif-24701374

[harsh thorn]

as far as im aware it doesnt provide servers with the list of who the client has muted and client muting is infact, client side

[grand flower]

Me when I network what messages I got from someone as a test to detect muting