like guys
#plugins-dev-chat
subtle ravine
quick questions
transparently_modded_server i heard that transparently modded can also apply in plugins code?
Never used it yet so gimme quick info
subtle ravine
So if 1 single plugin has it the server will not have modded flag?
hearty shard
So if 1 single plugin has it the server will not have modded flag?
/// <summary>
/// Whether this plugin is considered transparent.<br/>
/// A plugin can be marked as transparent if the server’s modifications are strictly limited to non-intrusive features that do not affect gameplay balance or make significant alterations to the user interface.
/// Examples of transparent modifications are: admin tools, automated timed broadcasts for tips, message of the day or other administrative utilities.<br/>
/// For more information, see article 5.2 in the official documentation: https://scpslgame.com/csg.
/// </summary>
/// <remarks>
/// You can keep using the 'transparently modded' flag during occasional short events organized and supervised by
/// Server Staff, regardless of the Modifications used for these events.
/// </remarks>
public virtual bool IsTransparent { get; } = false;
ALL plugins need this to true for Modded flag to be hidden
afaik
hearty shard
what r u actually doing
subtle ravine
just checking one thing
someone has vanilla server with plugins
and the flag in settings is set to false
im confused
hearty shard
i dont get it
what r u looking for
if a vanilla server has plugins that do not set themself as IsTransparent then it will show modded
or is it not doing that
shy karma
ill try this out when i get home later and see if my hitboxes still decide to be fucked up TwT
slate flume
This is still doing too much for most people IMO
You should really not post that function and instead tell people how to actually move the dummies
Especially given that that doesn't actually have the dummy move to the target position, it has them take a step in that direction
slate flume
ill try this out when i get home later and see if my hitboxes still decide to be...
What you want to do is get the dummy.RoleBase, cast it to IFpcRole, then go IFpcRole.FpcModule.Motor.ReceivedPosition = new(targetPosition);
Now fair warning I've heard you need to set the targetPosition not an insane distance from the dummy's current position, otherwise it might fail
hearty shard
restive turret
public class MoveTowardsPoint : MonoBehaviour
{
public event Action<MoveTowardsPoint> OnSuccess;
public float speed = 8.0f;
public Func<Vector3> PointToMove;
public Action<Vector3> SetPosition;
public Func<Vector3> GetPosition;
public object Data;
public void Update()
{
if (PointToMove == null)
return;
if (GetPosition == null)
return;
if (SetPosition == null)
return;
Vector3 point = PointToMove();
if (point == Vector3.zero)
return;
Vector3 getPos = GetPosition();
if ((getPos - point).sqrMagnitude < 2)
{
OnSuccess?.Invoke(this);
Destroy(this);
return;
}
SetPosition(Vector3.MoveTowards(getPos, point, speed * Time.deltaTime));
}
}
guh
slate flume
```cs
public class MoveTowardsPoint : MonoBehaviour
{
public event Action<Mo...
Three null checks on separate lines one after another is crazy
slate flume
I bet I could make a better dummy movement function than all of you nerds
tepid sluice
nulll
restive turret
I bet I could make a better dummy movement function than all of you nerds
Then go and do it
slate flume
```cs
public class MoveTowardsPoint : MonoBehaviour
{
public event Action<Mo...
This runs the risk of server stuttering causing dummy stuttering
restive turret
This is not only dummy movement it do object moving too
slate flume
This runs the risk of server stuttering causing dummy stuttering
DeltaTime is dependent on the time between previous frames, it can't predict future stuttering
You're predicting movement as though the previous DeltaTime is going to be the same as the next DeltaTime
That can be an issue if DeltaTime ends up being a good bit larger than the previous one
It'll cause the dummy to pause
My immediate issues with your guys' systems is that the first one is doing too much and the second one has that issue
restive turret
I think even PlayerFollower has dt
hearty shard
okay ur point can stand while they can also point it out
restive turret
My testing server/pc runs perfectly at 60 fps
slate flume
okay ur point can stand while they can also point it out
Yes but he's saying it as though it's a counter to the issue I have with his method
His point can stand, just not as a counter to the point I just made
slate flume
My testing server/pc runs perfectly at 60 fps
This is fair but also you shouldn't be recommending solutions that rely on consistent full TPS server performance
Not everyone has the same luxury
restive turret
Literally every search that i checked made "plz use dt "
slate flume
It is good to use DeltaTime but you're still missing my point
If the next DeltaTime is larger than the previous one, than the dummy stutters
restive turret
If you provide a solution not just doing critics i would welcome it
slate flume
The dummy can continue to work towards the ReceivedPosition even with server stuttering because it sync to the client
slate flume
If you provide a solution not just doing critics i would welcome it
I will
Just give me a bit to
You know
Finish my drinks and get back to my room
upper vapor
If the next DeltaTime is larger than the previous one, than the dummy stutters
then use smoothDeltaTime
slate flume
then use smoothDeltaTime
What does smoothDeltaTime do
Does it approximate DeltaTime based on multiple frames
restive turret
Burn your pc
hearty shard
This value is equal to Time.deltaTime when it is constant (i.e. smooth frame rate). When deltaTime varies between frames (e.g. on a frame hitch), this value increases or decreases gradually towards deltaTime over multiple frames.
slate flume
That still doesn't fix the problem smh
ReceivedPosition should be overcompensating for DeltaTime
upper vapor
it will be significantly less noticeable
restive turret
Not my problem
upper vapor
Not my problem
XDD
slate flume
Not my problem
It could be for the people you're proposing this too
You're being very inconsiderate
slate flume
Alright whatever I'll propose a better solution for this user when I get back to my room
restive turret
The propose is just tp to destination
slate flume
I don't want to argue with you anymore we're not going to meet any common ground
restive turret
Have fun then
slate flume
I will
restive turret
Going back to implement dtls
storm bridge
Hi
restive turret
Didn't you mixed deltaTime and fixedTime?
Ah ye most places says "do lerping too"
slate flume
Didn't you mixed deltaTime and fixedTime?
No
slate flume
Ah ye most places says "do lerping too"
Lerping is fine
But you're underestimating the lerp
You're calculating movement to say
"ReceivedPosition should be where the dummy will end up next frame"
If the next frame takes longer than you thought, then the dummy will make it the spot before the next frame runs
Meaning you stutter
You're confusing my argument as "Lerping bad"
No lerping is fine
restive turret
ah so RecPos should be predicting the next move
slate flume
Generally yes
You want to overestimate because the client will sync the received position
So you can calculate the movement as far as a few frames and everything will run the same, but avoid the stuttering
Really all you need for an easy fix to do is take the speed and multiply it to be larger than the dummies current speed
It'll allow the position to overcompensate in case of server lag
restive turret
my speed when i set to more than 10 it just flies to pos
slate flume
my speed when i set to more than 10 it just flies to pos
It's not about changing the dummies speed, it's about overcompensating the position in where the dummy needs to be
When the dummy receives a position, it moves at whatever speed it can to that position
And that movement is client synced
So if I tell the dummy "move to X" it'll move like a regular player to position X
It's like if I'm telling an artist to make a painting
I can tell them what painting I want them to make, or I can tell them each individual brush stroke and wait for confirmation after each one
If I take a long time to tell them the next brush stroke, the painting will take longer
The artist already knows how to paint
I can just tell them what to paint and they'll paint it
I guess maybe the more adept analogy is that I can tell the painter the next few brush strokes they should make, in case I take a longer time to tell them the next brush strokes they should be making
celest thorn
guys how do you sell a human body?
upper vapor
guys how do you sell a human body?
you find someone that'll buy it
upper vapor
no
upper vapor
ItemType.DebugStick
celest thorn
ItemType.DebugStick
Jailbird
unique crane
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1252586517948272650/1372926584620580894/t...
Using that on Eve rn
Shes a witch
celest thorn
Shes a witch
Fr
royal mica
lovely CI pains
royal mica
I love the commit history when I touch any CI related files
lethal cradle
Does anyone know how 096 knows if he's been looked at?
Does it use Camera.WorldToScreenPoint and then using a raycast check if it's within LOS and in range?
hearty shard
Does anyone know how 096 knows if he's been looked at?
Does it use Camera.WorldT...
VisionInformation class
afaik
you can always go to the 096 targets and check it urself what its doing
lethal cradle
wait that's not a default unity feature is it?
hearty shard
wait that's not a default unity feature is it?
no its custom
loud condor
How to create custom item via LabApi?
hearty shard
How to create custom item via LabApi?
write your own custom item api
hearty shard
and how does that work?
i dont remember
you can decompile it
do you use rider
or VS
hearty shard
so you use VS?
lethal cradle
yeah
hearty shard
ah
hearty shard
yes
lethal cradle
ok yeah i wanted to make sure theres not like a modded variant of the game called vs
hearty shard
ctrl + left click VisionInformation
lethal cradle
no i dont
hearty shard
i thought you were writing a plugin
lethal cradle
nah
hearty shard
lethal cradle
just wanted to know how 096 works xd
hearty shard
busy rn so cant do it for you
lethal cradle
alr ty tho
static meteor
wait does VS rly not have a decompiler built in
It does
grand flower
rider > all
hearty shard
all > rider
hearty shard
@lethal cradle
public bool IsObservedBy(ReferenceHub target)
{
Vector3 position = (base.CastRole.FpcModule.CharacterModelInstance as Scp096CharacterModel).Head.position;
return Vector3.Dot((target.PlayerCameraReference.position - position).normalized, base.Owner.PlayerCameraReference.forward) >= 0.1f && VisionInformation.GetVisionInformation(target, target.PlayerCameraReference, position, 0.12f, 60f, true, true, 0, true).IsLooking;
}
thats fine
hearty shard
GetVisionInformation()
{
bool isOnSameFloor = false;
bool flag = false;
if (VisionInformation.TargetOnTheSameFloor(sourceCam.position, target))
{
isOnSameFloor = true;
flag = true;
}
bool flag2 = visionTriggerDistance == 0f;
Vector3 directionToTarget = target - sourceCam.position;
float magnitude = directionToTarget.magnitude;
if (flag && visionTriggerDistance > 0f)
{
float num = checkFog ? ((target.y > 980f) ? visionTriggerDistance : (visionTriggerDistance / 2f)) : visionTriggerDistance;
if (magnitude <= num)
{
flag2 = true;
}
flag = flag2;
}
float lookingAmount = 1f;
if (flag)
{
flag = false;
if (magnitude < targetRadius)
{
if (Vector3.Dot(source.transform.forward, (target - source.transform.position).normalized) > 0f)
{
flag = true;
lookingAmount = 1f;
}
}
else
{
flag = VisionInformation.TargetInViewDirection(source, target, targetRadius, out lookingAmount);
}
}
bool flag3 = !checkLineOfSight;
if (flag && checkLineOfSight)
{
flag3 = VisionInformation.TargetVisibilityUnobstructed(sourceCam, directionToTarget, 0);
flag = flag3;
}
bool flag4 = false;
if (checkInDarkness)
{
flag4 = (!VisionInformation.CheckAttachments(source) && RoomLightController.IsInDarkenedRoom(target));
flag &= !flag4;
}
}
ok i removed all the params from the method
ez
lethal cradle
wait thats decompiled code right?
hearty shard
yes
hearty shard
that seems way too overcomplicated tho tbh
i mean it has to track stuff for more than just 096
its 049, 173, 096 minimum
i dont remember what else uses it
lethal cradle
hmm fair enough
hearty shard
1344 + the sound track that plays if ur alone uses it too
lethal cradle
hm
i still feel like using
world to screen point
with a simple raycast
would be the same but faster and more compact
if the raycast returns unitynull then the target is outside the range
and if the screen point is higher than uhhhhh i think it's -0.5/0.5 then it's outside the player's fov
hearty shard
i mean it has to check how much ur looking, the amount of distance to target, whether ur looking, whether ur in darkness, whether ur on the same floor, whether ur in line of sight
lethal cradle
and if the screen point is higher than uhhhhh i think it's -0.5/0.5 then it's ou...
oh wait no it returns pixels i remember now
so all you have to do is get the player's x and y pixels and then just do simple maths
hearty shard
shut UP
lethal cradle
i mean it has to check how much ur looking, the amount of distance to target, wh...
the how much youre looking is determined by WorldToScreenPoint
and the rest by the raycast
dont even have to check if they're both on the same floor because the raycast would not return that it hit 096's face for example
hearty shard
dont even have to check if they're both on the same floor because the raycast wo...
yes but
vision information isnt only used by 096
and same floor might be used by smth else
lethal cradle
yeah it could be the exact same thing for peanut
hearty shard
ya they all use the same method
lethal cradle
or anything that needs los
but
there has to be a reason why they use that specific method of doing the LOS check
hearty shard
096, 049, 049-2, 173, 1344, 1853, alonetrack
hearty shard
there has to be a reason why they use that specific method of doing the LOS chec...
because thats what they made
lethal cradle
yeah but there's prob a reason why they made it this way specifically
surprised the alonetrack isn't just a basic distance check/trigger collider
hearty shard
surprised the alonetrack isn't just a basic distance check/trigger collider
trigger collider?
lethal cradle
yeah
tho idk if it's actually lighter than looping through all entities checking their range
it may be lighter above a certain amount of entities
but then it could simply go through a list of entities for the current floor instead of the entire level
im really curious now
do any nw programmers check this channel often?
lethal cradle
hope they see this cuz i really wanna know why they made it this way
hearty shard
hope they see this cuz i really wanna know why they made it this way
i mean
afaik its old code
so prob from hubert
ping hubert (dont actually)
lethal cradle
Ah
lethal cradle
would be funny if i pinged one of them instead of the hubert
lethal cradle
it doesnt necessarily have to be hubert
i do wonder if the code was inspired by the CB implementation
hearty shard
someone wrote it, and its been there for years
lethal cradle
fair enough
hearty shard
shut up
lethal cradle
@grok is this true?
restive turret
@grok is this true?
severe grail
public static void SpawnRagdoll(Vector3 position, Quaternion rotation, string Name, string DeathReason, RoleTypeId roleTypeId)
{
// Damage info: here we use a custom reason "Plugin Test"
var damage = new CustomReasonDamageHandler(DeathReason);
Log.Debug("SPAWNING RAGDOLL");
// Create ragdoll data
var data = new RagdollData(
Server.Host.ReferenceHub, // attacker (host so it’s always valid)
damage, // damage handler
roleTypeId, // role type for the ragdoll body
position, // spawn position
rotation, // spawn rotation
Name, // name shown on the ragdoll
double.MaxValue // time to stay (use MaxValue = infinite)
);
// Create the ragdoll
if (Ragdoll.TryCreate(data, out Ragdoll ragdoll))
{
ragdoll.Spawn(); // actually spawns it in the world
Log.Info($"Spawned ragdoll: {ragdoll.Name}");
}
}
Hello guys i got a Ragedoll spawner and after the Update it doesnt take Vector3 Position but rather "RelativePosition"
Argument type 'UnityEngine.Vector3' is not assignable to parameter type 'RelativePositioning.RelativePosition'
Someone knows a fix?
hearty shard
```c#
public static void SpawnRagdoll(Vector3 position, Quaternion rotat...
new RelativePosition(position)
prob
severe grail
new RelativePosition(position)
Yes perfect thanksss
teal junco
@grok is this true?
my nickname in another server is grok and this msg activated a brain cell in me
lethal cradle
lol
lethal cradle
new RelativePosition(position)
do u have the code snippet for how that one works xd
im curious
hearty shard
do u have the code snippet for how that one works xd
Its just a compressed vector3 afaik that does it relative to a point
Eg elevator or door
hearty shard
i dont have it but thats what i remember
lethal cradle
why would it be relative to a door though
teal junco
is there a reason for waypoints besides elevators? not too sure when they were introduced
lethal cradle
interesting
wonder if nw is cooking a navigation system
or is it just leftover code from the SNAV days?
grand flower
Since they use relative positioning it's easier to re-use something that's always on the map anyway for waypoints
spare zodiac
fun fact, you can even make extension for generics 
spare zodiac
extension blocks huh
yeah it gives so much more freedom then extension methods
we trust the process
grand flower
neat
shy karma
What you want to do is get the `dummy.RoleBase`, cast it to `IFpcRole`, then go ...
I rewrote my code to manage it this way but hitboxes are still....
worthy rune
I rewrote my code to manage it this way but hitboxes are still....
can we see the code
shy karma
can we see the code
{
while (npc != null)
{
Vector3 dir = npc.Rotation * Vector3.forward;
dir.y = 0f;
if (dir.sqrMagnitude < 0.0001f) dir = Vector3.forward;
dir.Normalize();
Vector3 start = npc.Position;
Vector3 target = start + dir * Dist;
target.y = npc.Position.y;
Vector3 cubePos = target + new Vector3(0f, 1.5f, 0f);
var cube = SpawnPrimitive(cubePos, Quaternion.identity, 0.5f);
float elapsed = 0f;
while (npc != null && Vector3.Distance(new Vector3(npc.Position.x, 0f, npc.Position.z),
new Vector3(target.x, 0f, target.z)) > 0.05f)
{
if (npc.RoleBase is IFpcRole fpcRole)
{
fpcRole.FpcModule.Motor.ReceivedPosition =
new RelativePosition(target);
}
elapsed += Time.deltaTime;
if (elapsed >= 5f) break;
yield return Timing.WaitForOneFrame;
}
DespawnPrimitive(cube);
}
}
try calling ServerOverridePosition after setting ReceivedPosition
use the same position as the received one
see if that helps
teal junco
can we make a way to disable smallcaps in hints 🥺
worthy rune
``` private static IEnumerator<float> Walk(Player npc, float Dist)
{
...
if i understand this correctly you are setting the position to the target which is under the primitive in the video, and are not doing any interpolation.
true cedar
u already can
true cedar
can we make a way to disable smallcaps in hints 🥺
use the <lowercase> tag
teal junco
use the <lowercase> tag
wait are you for real
worthy rune
you will need to interpolate the position on the server if you want backtracking to work
teal junco
wait are you for real
hold on !!
true cedar
wait are you for real
yea
teal junco
idk why my first thought was </smallcaps> 😭
true cedar
if only
teal junco
ur a genius thanks very much
true cedar
:3
teal junco
true cedar
ive been working with hints for a looooong time
teal junco
yea i can tell, i remember that thing u said about working with hints and having like infinite hint knowledge
after i said the thing about technical aspects of cassie. but i think that your hint knowledge is way better than my cassie knowledge.
upper vapor
is there a reason for waypoints besides elevators? not too sure when they were i...
7 bytes instead of 12 per position
that's kind of a side effect
upper vapor
we trust the process
that is NOT how instances work 😭
grand flower
7 bytes instead of 12 per position
That's really not worth the hassle of the system tbf
doesn't matter as much as people make it seem to be
teal junco
7 bytes instead of 12 per position
why 7 bytes? i assume 12 being default is because 4 bytes per float for a 3d vector for pos
but i dont see how it becomes 7
true cedar
okay but imagine 5 bytes times ten trillion
upper vapor
why 7 bytes? i assume 12 being default is because 4 bytes per float for a 3d vec...
1 byte = id, 2 * 3 (ushort)
teal junco
1 byte = id, 2 * 3 (ushort)
wait they represent pos as ushort in network?
upper vapor
wouldn't padding make that the same size basically lmfao???
not when sent over the network
worthy rune
wouldn't padding make that the same size basically lmfao???
mirror packs them
upper vapor
wait they represent pos as ushort in network?
yes
hence the 128 range
grand flower
In this instance the processing cost outweighs any kind of perceived benefit from reducing the bandwidth cost
grand flower
lmk when the game can handle more than 50 players without dying and then we can talk about that 
those 5 bytes are cheaper than all the relative positioning computations
(i know you're memeing)
true cedar
i would never
grand flower
wat
restive turret
C# has decimal (i think that's the name) that is 16 bytes
grand flower
If you ever use decimal for vectors/quats you need help
restive turret
Why, i want the perfect positions
grand flower
Simulating ants in SL time
restive turret
The real ray tracing
true cedar
i fucking hate the names they choose for types
like why decimal
well
ik why decimal
but its just an unhelpful name
grand flower
quadruple was kind of a mouthful
restive turret
QBit
celest thorn
Rust
restive turret
No
slate flume
I rewrote my code to manage it this way but hitboxes are still....
This is more of a NW hitbox thing than it is a problem with dummy movement afaik
Look at the bullet spread
Bullet spread while you're moving with an FR-MG-0 is crazy, that's why you're experiencing this
Well it also combined with NW's bad hitboxes (see HitboxExtender plugin)
This is not because the hitboxes are off, it's a combination of those two issues
Your hitboxes are fine
Try standing still and ADS shooting them
You should have a lot less issues
grand flower
Riptide said it's likely backtracking
And considering shooting ahead works it probably is
swift nexus
Riptide said it's likely backtracking
yeah it probably is
animation information isn't a part of backtracking
worthy rune
Always wondered why not just do a simple capsule check
i remember you talking about implementing it server side to save TPS, did you ever try it out in a plugin
grand flower
Sure cheaters might lie about what they hit, but they already shred with aimbot anyway, it'd only make them a lot easier to spot
grand flower
i remember you talking about implementing it server side to save TPS, did you ev...
Never found the time, but from exploring the shooting logic, I don't think it'd be possible
i'd need clientside access
backtracking also seems to assume RTT is 50/50 between client & server, which makes it inaccurate at higher speeds
Due to the lack of buffering in SL, you can't rollback to an exact position for hitreg, so my idea of using a capsule wouldn't do much anyway
might help a bit more but without client modifications I would barely make an improvement imo
worthy rune
backtracking also seems to assume RTT is 50/50 between client & server, which ma...
i dont think you can calculate the time between server-client client-server? unless im missing something
grand flower
Since SL doesn't really use a move input kind of system like other fps games do, not really
If the server sent move data to clients (with timestamps) and clients buffered them for X ms before running them (let's say a fix 100/200ms buffer), you'd be able to tell the server "hey I hit player X at timestamp Y"
the server keeps a buffer of the sent moves to roll back at the time the client described
do simple check
worthy rune
i see
grand flower
Keep a max rollback time that's reasonable and you have cheap hit validation that feels good for players
Don't even have to move the players back on the server, a simple capsule/line intersection check means no transform updates
worthy rune
i know mirror includes a timestamp with every batch of messages, but ngl when i looked at the docs it just confused the shit out of me
grand flower
I'd just have your own in this scenario
Easier
with a synced time clock between server and client you can have reasonably good validation
slate flume
Riptide said it's likely backtracking
Watch the video, you will see the bullet holes going to the left of the dummy
slate flume
Try standing still and ADS shooting them
^
slate flume
Watch the video, you will see the bullet holes going to the left of the dummy
I've seen this exact thing happen without dummies
grand flower
Tbh the same issue was happening while they werent moving and shooting a moving dummy
Backtracking defo has issues
slate flume
^^
worthy rune
wasnt this fixed?
slate flume
wasnt this fixed?
I never saw anything about it
worthy rune
im pretty sure it was a big issue, would be surprised if it wasnt
grand flower
Don't even have to move the players back on the server, a simple capsule/line in...
oh and a circular buffer that holds the rollback data/move history.
slate flume
I can try recreating it with and without dummies to demonstrate
But that'll take some time
grand flower
I can't get into too much detail about past work since I'm under NDAs but I can say that it works pretty well
Although SL would require a rewrite of movement networking for that
worthy rune
Although SL would require a rewrite of movement networking for that
thats in the works atm
slate flume
But suffice it to say I don't think the problem is just with dummies
grand flower
Sweet
worthy rune
i think jesusQC is the one working on it
grand flower
Might be a good time to simplify hitreg
i dunno why the server simulates the shots completely for example
Instead of just checking if a shot could've been fired and doing a line/capsule intersection
You get rid of transform updates from backtracking, hitreg costs less
(also iirc every shot done on the server sends an RPC to everyone but the owner?)
(that stings)
Hopefully automatic guns don't do that
worthy rune
not sure i havnt look to much into the new system
grand flower
I'm still sad at the amount of network messages being used for stuff, really hope it gets a refactor pass one day
swift nexus
wasnt this fixed?
with what change?
grand flower
Heavy, could be lighter
unique crane
How...
swift nexus
consistent reproduction steps have been difficult, and the exact cause for why that scenario occurred is hard to confirm
grand flower
That's... not good? They have overhead.
Nice feature but there's a way cheaper alternative
sec
worthy rune
with what change?
wasnt something todo with the animator of a weapon delaying shots and network packet loss delaying messages(that one i dont think was fixed, but the former i think was?)
swift nexus
would be something good to look into
swift nexus
wasnt something todo with the animator of a weapon delaying shots and network pa...
first was fixed, but this still occurs
unique crane
Full server, everyone has the FMG, starts shooting all at once
Only issue I ever had with that was the audio started dying
grand flower
Sending a link to something that's Unreal related but the logic can be applied to Unity/Mirror
unique crane
Okay
grand flower
just replace replicated property with SyncVar if you dont know Unreal
i've applied similar logic for games targeting 64-100 players per server and it's extremely cheap networking wise
instead of sending an RPC every time a player shoots, you increment a counter in a struct
struct is a sync var
on the client's side, when the sync var updates, they compare the previous bullet count with the new one
the difference is the amount of shots they have to simulate on their end
add that difference to an accumulated counter, just simulate at whatever the firerate of the gun is
Now regardless of how fast a gun shoots, the networking cost is pretty much static (more or less)
Bonus points if only people that are relevant to you (SL terms would be no invisibility flags i think?) send you that data
swift nexus
Only issue I ever had with that was the audio started dying
the server can die as well, especially on weak hardware
I've noted this down on the old QA servers
grand flower
It does have a performance cost in the end
With this kind of setup too, you can have some packet loss and still have bullets simulating stably enough
It's resilient enough for players not to notice it once it's setup properly
unique crane
I guess that's something that can be looked at in future
unique crane
the server can die as well, especially on weak hardware
QA server was barely running on 6 tps
grand flower
the server will just send the data until the client acks, there's no ordering guarantee
compared to RPCs, although I need to double check what channel is used for server to client shot networking in SL
unique crane
Reliable
grand flower
Ordered?
unique crane
Nop
grand flower
phew
unique crane
Default is just reliable
Or wait
Is the other value ordered or unordered
Uhhhummmm
Idk
grand flower
im in bed too
hah
um
you sent this here a while ago
so im gonna assume it's reliable ordered
grand flower
worthy rune
yeah
big side effect is any packet loss will causes massive delay
which is why stuff is being reworked to use unreliable/unordered
grand flower
I would beg thee to move a lot of the stateful stuff to sync vars
I'm sure Mirror can handle throttling network updates better with sync vars (at least I hope so lol)
worthy rune
im not sure mirror can do any throttling, or atleast i havnt seen any
you kinda just set the update rate on the NetworkBehaviour and then for the rest of the game it uses that, although you could easily script your own dynamic update rate
worthy rune
pretty sure it uses channel 0 by default
grand flower
for sync vars too?
worthy rune
yeah
grand flower
oof
worthy rune
gonna double check
grand flower
Yeah cause that kinda just makes them a little better but only marginally
the thing I like about Unreal's networked properties is that they're unreliable and they're not ordered
you set them, you know the client will eventually get it
and packet loss won't nuke everything
swift nexus
QA server was barely running on 6 tps
😭
worthy rune
oh right, so its not mirror that determines if its reliable/ordered or what ever. mirror just has the abstract concept of channels. and its lite net 4 mirror which is setting the default
grand flower
Ay
swift nexus
@grand flower dw the movement rewrite from Jesus sets it to unreliable
he's still cooking on that though
grand flower
I think I've just been waaaaay too spoiled by Unreal's networking layer heh
grand flower
so question actually
unique crane
grand flower
Don't need it for elevators, I've talked about other more standard solutions to the same problem
huh
unique crane
It's staying afaik. It was discussed in some channel some time ago
grand flower
rip
unique crane
But some optimalization wouldn't hurt
swift nexus
@limber silo ^
grand flower
I guess it could be optimized a little more but like
It's still gonna have a big cost in the end
Compared to other solutions
unique crane
Such as
grand flower
Well, starting off my ignoring the few bytes saved by it bandwidth wise because it honestly does not matter much
The only real use of it is elevators, so any moving platform a player can be based on
(backtracking waypoints are another thing I'll touch on after this)
unique crane
Yes that was the intention
The less networking is not the primary goal for that
Just moving elevators
grand flower
There's a simple solution, you give anything dynamic the player can use as a movement base an id (that is the same on client and server, hell could be a network identity, but I'd go for a byte because honestly you're not gonna have > 255 elevators in the facility, heck save one for the Chaos jeep heh)
When the player steps on the dynamic movement base (i.e. elevator), they set it as their base in movement data they send to the server
No base id set = relative to world (0,0,0)
base id set = relative to dynamic movement base of that id
When the client changes their base, the server checks that they could've
This (afaik) is already in the game through backtracking waypoints
except instead you just backtrack the dynamic movement base according to when the client said they switched to them
or off them (elevator -> facility floor)
Server's happy enough with what the client says, their movement is now relative to the base
and for other clients, they receive the data of the base id + relative position
relative position this time just being a simple vector for position and vector/quat for rotation depending on how SL does it I don't remember
no base? world space
base set? relative to set base
Clients will see no jitter/desync of any kind
You no longer are bound by the limitations and performance cost of waypoint calculations
unique crane
When the player steps on the dynamic movement base (i.e. elevator), they set it ...
Yea but yknow
You don't step on the surface instantly
You can jump there
You can also jump out while it's moving
You can't just check touching
Bounds check is required
grand flower
Yep, and generally the way it's done is by having a "max distance to floor" leniency setting
unique crane
Yeah so you just do bounds check
grand flower
You are allowed to change base when grounded (so jumping into an elevator sets the base the second the elevator floor touches your feet)
leaving base can be done by hopping on another or being too far from the floor of the base
could do bounds check but the issue is that will "snatch" the player
and look goofy
SL example is warhead elevators sometimes a player jumps down at the right time and you suddenly see them accelerate before they even hit the elevator floor
Not flagrant but noticed it a few times, and you make the connection after reading the code for those hehe
Keeping track of the floor under players isn't much of a performance issue
pretty cheap all things considered
So now you have gotten rid of relative positions and waypoints and have waaaaay cheaper movement
Can still do smoothing, and you don't need to have perfect networking of the dynamic movement bases because clients will follow whatever movement data they receive for other players, and assign positions relative to the set base if any
grand flower
I'd be happy to answer questions if it ever goes that far
unique crane
Cc @marble cobalt what do you think
#plugins-dev-chat message begin here
grand flower
I'm just trying to get rid of my nemesis the waypoints and relative positions 😭
And make our servers run smoother
Base ID -> GameObject would be free since you dont find it by position, just by contact (reported by client, or corrected by server)
slate flume
When the player steps on the dynamic movement base (i.e. elevator), they set it ...
Just make sure to do this properly
Titanfall uses this system and it has a couple useful movement bugs surrounding it
slate flume
restive turret
https://youtu.be/2uiL9Dgxwms?si=jpuw-eBAKg0cq4zT
Not a bug, it's a feature
upper vapor
@slate flume here's some juicy linq
icy knoll
<@434572461011501067> here's some juicy linq
might as well just do a foreach atp, that's so many loops 😭
hearty shard
<@434572461011501067> here's some juicy linq
YIPPIE
upper vapor
might as well just do a foreach atp, that's so many loops 😭
well
this is much more readable
icy knoll
that is true, but the nanoseconds ax...
upper vapor
okay i'll optimize sometime
unique crane
idk why it shows at all
You mean event print?
upper vapor
yea
unique crane
You have debug labapi dll on the server then
upper vapor
😭
hearty shard
Guh
hearty shard
reminds me
slate flume
Can I get a "hell yeah" in the chat for linq
unique crane
unique crane
That kinda does impact gameplay
hearty shard
its a plugin dependency api
hearty shard
That kinda does impact gameplay
how?
effects are disabled
it shouldnt do anything unless enabled (and if it does so, that is a bug and not intended and will be fixed)
hearty shard
rah
ill leave it commented for now
but yea it doesnt do anything unless im stupid and mess up 
me when i make everyone fly to the moon
slate flume
should make secretapi transparently modded
I mean yeah prob
slate flume
You can change badgetext
That's so peak
restive turret
You can even fake sync it
slate flume
You can even fake sync it
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
hearty shard
@upper vapor also i think rider broke the summary parsing
😭
actually
only one file
tf
upper vapor
do you have BOM?
hearty shard
bom?
hearty shard
this one is fine
and its outside the extension
just checked another extension thing and yea
its broken
tf
good to know at least
true cedar
vs better
agile tartan
I know some people are creating minimaps using TMP or Primitive, but how do they get the map structure?
hearty shard
what the hell david
unique crane
Spot the issue
hearty shard
get out
slate flume
What the fuck david
hearty shard
Spot the issue
you?
burnt hearth
hearty shard
oh.
hearty shard
https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-james-doakes-sus-face-james-doakes-suspiciou...
YOU
burnt hearth
hi
burnt hearth
soon
upper vapor
what the fucky
slate flume
when make more music
When make more code
hearty shard
I know some people are creating minimaps using TMP or Primitive, but how do they...
rooms have an icon that 106 atlas uses
so you gotta recreate that
foreach (RoomIdentifier allRoomIdentifier in RoomIdentifier.AllRoomIdentifiers)
{
Transform transform = allRoomIdentifier.transform;
Vector3 position = transform.position;
if (allRoomIdentifier.Zone != FacilityZone.None && (double) Mathf.Abs(position.y - camPos.y) <= 100.0)
{
Scp106MinimapElement scp106MinimapElement = Scp106Minimap._pool[this._usedRooms];
scp106MinimapElement.Room = allRoomIdentifier;
scp106MinimapElement.Img.sprite = allRoomIdentifier.Icon;
((Behaviour) scp106MinimapElement.Img).enabled = true;
scp106MinimapElement.Rt.localEulerAngles = Vector3.back * transform.eulerAngles.y;
scp106MinimapElement.Rt.localPosition = new Vector3(position.x, position.z, 0.0f) * this._gridScale;
++this._usedRooms;
}
}
is what basegame does
hearty shard
When make more code
never i quit
slate flume
never i quit
:'(
celest thorn
Hello
agile tartan
rooms have an icon that 106 atlas uses
so you gotta recreate that
```cs
foreach ...
What if they generate an overview map instead of a minimap?
hearty shard
What if they generate an overview map instead of a minimap?
wdym
hearty shard
I don't wanna deal with SSSS :'(
good point
i dont wanna either
i mean ill keep doing it
but
holy macaroni
hearty shard
not like 106 map, it shows whole hcz map
then its the same thing just a bigger map
slate flume
rooms have an icon that 106 atlas uses
so you gotta recreate that
```cs
foreach ...
If only the room icons actually fucking worked
How does 079 do it
Does 079 experience the same room icon bug
hearty shard
How does 079 do it
public void Generate()
{
this._parentImage = this._parent.GetComponent<Image>();
this._nonExactTransform = ((Component) this.GetComponentInChildren<LayoutGroup>(true)).transform;
((TMP_Text) this._zoneLabel).text = Translations.Get<Scp079HudTranslation>(ProceduralZoneMap.ZoneTranslations[FacilityZone.Surface]);
this._surfaceCameras = new List<Scp079Camera>();
foreach (Scp079InteractableBase allInstance in Scp079InteractableBase.AllInstances)
{
if (allInstance is Scp079Camera scp079Camera && allInstance.Room.Zone == FacilityZone.Surface)
this._surfaceCameras.Add(scp079Camera);
}
int count = this._surfaceCameras.Count;
this._icons = new Image[count];
for (int index = 0; index < count; ++index)
{
this._icons[index] = Object.Instantiate<Image>(this._template, (Transform) this._parent);
((Graphic) this._icons[index]).rectTransform.anchoredPosition = this.WorldspaceToAnchored(this._surfaceCameras[index].Position);
}
Object.Destroy((Object) this._template);
}
this is surface zone
agile tartan
rooms have an icon that 106 atlas uses
so you gotta recreate that
```cs
foreach ...
btw is this able to patch and change room distance to show?
hearty shard
btw is this able to patch and change room distance to show?
dont think you can patch it
its client that decides the scale of 106 map
slate flume
its client that decides the scale of 106 map
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Love it when NW decides not to sync shit
hearty shard
to me it makes sense
slate flume
to me it makes sense
It doesn't make sense for a game that encourages modding
slate flume
If you're making a regular game and don't care about the ability to mod it then it's fine
Otherwise you should be adding ways to change these things or at least just sync them
true cedar
istg
hearty shard
same way they handle position, same way they handle scale
but yk
they havent yet
you havent suggested it
true cedar
u guys will complain about not having a sync message for the strands of hair on players
hearty shard
yes
that being said
we sure do love it
(lcz has the zone map for entrance... but doesnt use it)
also has hcz but does use it
true cedar
okay that is a bit dumb but
true cedar
do i get off my ass and fix ruei v3
unique crane
Sleeping is good
restive turret
Sleeping 16h a day
true cedar
true
restive turret
hearty shard
slimy boy
restive turret
Go sleep you too
hearty shard
Go sleep you too
im BUSY
restive turret
Busy being dead because y'know you murdered me
hearty shard
good
hearty shard
guh
restive turret
What if
icy knoll
ive been waiting... for ruei v3 to be fully released... for 20 years! /j
restive turret
ive been waiting... for ruei v3 to be fully released... for 20 years! /j
Real
icy knoll
goofy
hearty shard
um
true cedar
not invisible
hearty shard
go fix it
true cedar
fuck u
restive turret
Bc not closed
hearty shard
and then after that
hearty shard
u gotta make the changes for me
restive turret
A quick (1h) naptime
true cedar
ill do what i want
slate flume
u gotta make the changes for me
+1
restive turret
I dont use hints so do whatever u want
upper vapor
you click "merge"
true cedar
I dont use hints so do whatever u want
u should
restive turret
how does one handle a merge conflict properly in rider
Idk i never used rider
Skilll issue
true cedar
ruei is the most advanced thing ever created ever
upper vapor
how does one handle a merge conflict properly in rider
if you tried to push but was rejected, you should probably undo commit, pull, then commit again
hearty shard
you click "merge"
except its just ignoring my changes from my branch and taking the one im merging in
id like to get the changes i did on each branch in the same file so i can just
hearty shard
if you tried to push but was rejected, you should probably undo commit, pull, th...
i didnt try push
i tried merge
upper vapor
show screenshot
hearty shard
restive turret
u should
I write apis and backend usually , i dont really care how its draw on screen
hearty shard
oh
restive turret
Altf4
restive turret
git merge --hard --force
upper vapor
read the top comment (i miss it sometimes too)
true cedar
I write apis and backend usually , i dont really care how its draw on screen
mostly same but thats kinda why i like hints
i dont actually have to do proper ui
hearty shard
read the top comment (i miss it sometimes too)
well thing is
the middle is removing stuff i do want
the changes i do want is what it removes 💀
upper vapor
no
upper vapor
what is happening
hearty shard
i am NOT used to this
upper vapor
this is very little context
hearty shard
how about you screenshot the ide so i don't only see the ants
theres nothing else to show 😭
cant even abort 💀
ok i could through github desktop
celest thorn
wait ruei-3 works???
upper vapor
celest thorn
its released?
celest thorn
CRAZY
upper vapor
not yet
celest thorn
How stable?
upper vapor
try it and see 
celest thorn
I honestly don't wanna bet
hearty shard
it's stable mostly
ruei?
celest thorn
because in 1h 30m i have a testing
hearty shard
its just about porting
celest thorn
and stable
I didn't even implement on this project Ruei
tell me there's a wiki
ig it will be 30 seconds to add it
true cedar
tell me there's a wiki
not yet but everything is documented
celest thorn
I think i foudn a bug already lol
true cedar
huh
celest thorn
public static class SimpleElements
{
public static string Timer(ReferenceHub hub)
{
if (GameManager.CurrentArena == null)
return "Test";
Logger.Info("WORKS");
TimeSpan t = TimeSpan.FromSeconds(GameManager.CurrentArena.RoundRemaining);
return $"{t.Minutes:D2}:{t.Seconds:D2}";
}
}
display.Show(new Tag("Timer"), new DynamicElement(970, SimpleElements.Timer));
this is done in the OnPlayerJoin
It will always display test
but CurrentArena isn't null
oh update interval
lol
true cedar
there u go
warped prairie
speaking of RUEI, can sombody help me out here? cant really tell what im doing wrong in here. ill need to build on the features a ton later but just to show a normal hint here
public static bool ShowHint(Player player, string hintText, float duration, HintType hintType = HintType.Standard)
{
if (player is null || !player.IsReady)
{
return false;
}
string baseContent = hintText ?? string.Empty;
TimedElemRef<SetElement> elemRef = new();
float functionalPosition = hintType switch
{
HintType.Standard => 0f,
_ => 0f,
};
DisplayCore display = DisplayCore.Get(player.ReferenceHub);
TimeSpan timeSpan = TimeSpan.FromSeconds(duration);
display.SetElemTemp(
baseContent,
Ruetility.FunctionalToScaledPosition(functionalPosition),
timeSpan,
elemRef);
display.Update();
return true;
}
ruei 3 or 2
actually thats 2
warped prairie
im just trying to get it to show the hint on the screen for a duration then destroy it when its done more or less. I have a long feature list but ill build it late
true cedar
idk anything about ruei v2 anymore
warped prairie
idc what it is as long as i can get something working 
like i tried with v3 then with v2 and couldnt once get anything to even appear on screen. any help is better then where im at,
hearty shard
i got v3 working for me kinda
warped prairie
literally been trying to get a hint framework done for about 2 weeks and every time i go to work on it nothing
hearty shard
i have a working element at least
icy knoll
speaking of RUEI, can sombody help me out here? cant really tell what im doing w...
300 is default position, that's what i did to fix it, because that util method ur using always threw the text under the viewport for me
also you dont need to run .Update() whenever you add a hint
public static void ShowString(this ReferenceHub hub, string text, float duration = 3f, float? position = null)
{
DisplayCore.Get(hub).SetElemTemp(text, position ?? 300, TimeSpan.FromSeconds(duration), new ());
}```this is my code
warped prairie
hmm alright. ill have to build a shitton of features off of it but ill try that now
hearty shard
rue v3 isnt that difficult, but its in beta and ofc not everything works
warped prairie
i find it very difficult ngl. a lot of it goes right over my head, but im trying to make sense of it
hearty shard
i mean
v3 for me was
RueDisplay.Get(ev.Player).Show(_watermarkTag, _aliveWatermarkElement);
_aliveWatermarkElement is just a BasicElement
warped prairie
id be fine doing basic elements, given i can update the text. because eventually ill want features like fade in/fade out , 2-3 on screen simultaniously etc.
and i have a working version with HSM but its laggy at scale* and the only person that knows it that was willing to help is out of country
hearty shard
id be fine doing basic elements, given i can update the text. because eventually...
i mean you can do DynamicElement to auto update it, or when the thing refreshes it will try build it again
true cedar
im a bit confused why u would make ur own hint framework based on top of ruei/hsm
warped prairie
im a bit confused why u would make ur own hint framework based on top of ruei/hs...
because i just needed more features from it, that and a way for all other plugins in the codebase to just call the hint framework rather than make new elements and etc every time i want a new hint
true cedar
wait does it not show docs
hearty shard
wait does it not show docs
i dont have the nuget
slate flume
I just use HSM 
warped prairie
I just use HSM <:troll:772531162307362828>
icy knoll
I just use HSM <:troll:772531162307362828>
me when TPS drops when high player counts
hearty shard
brainrot incoming
warped prairie
idc what I use as long as it works. which neither do 
hearty shard
im so happy i removed my stylecop
slate flume
idc what I use as long as it works. which neither do <:ICommittedTaxFraud:107199...
Make your own 
warped prairie
im gonna end it all
slate flume
me when TPS drops when high player counts
Just get better hardware smh
hearty shard
idc what I use as long as it works. which neither do <:ICommittedTaxFraud:107199...
ruei 2 and 3 both do
perhaps a...
slate flume
im gonna end it all
warped prairie
i literally just copy pasted Lumi code for the hint and it didnt work on local
warped prairie
```cs
public static void ShowString(this ReferenceHub hub, string text, float du...
hearty shard
i take it back
slate flume
SKILL ISSUE?!
Why did you just drop that like you're about drop the nastiest slur
hearty shard
Why did you just drop that like you're about drop the nastiest slur
job.
warped prairie
i cant see what ur responding to
this dndt work
warped prairie
externally, anytime i want to call a hint
slate flume
The only time I've seen this happen is when another plugin is showing a hint
warped prairie
same as basegame calling
true cedar
you dont even have a license
oh