#help-with-radio

1 messages · Page 7 of 1

normal drift
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yes, just make sure the center pin is not bent

rose mountain
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What’s the center pin ?

normal drift
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If you unscrew the TTGO antenna -look at the pin inside.

rose mountain
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Ok I’ll check now

normal drift
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same for the Pi -- where the antenna connects to the wire.

rose mountain
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The fact that around the pi there was 2 or 3 wifi antennas could impact the performance ?

primal warren
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Yeah, other signals can mask reception in many circumstances

normal drift
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WiFi is way out the 868MHz frequency range so I would not expect it to be a big problem. Do you have more than one antenna, Cay you try a different one?

normal drift
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Is it intermittent or does nothing get through?

primal warren
#

Yeah, that's more like having a cellular antenna nearby

rose mountain
normal drift
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Your pick -- You'll really need to try all combinations to know. Only change one at a time 😉

rose mountain
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Ok 👌

normal drift
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Yus hould be able to use the TTGO antenna on the Pi -- as long as the connector is the same.

rose mountain
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Do you have suggestions about antenna or the one above for TTGO and Pi should be ok ?

rose mountain
normal drift
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I am not as skeptical as @primal warren about the Amazon antenna but I really can't offer any opinion about the quality.

rose mountain
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Do you have any link about a qualitative antenna ? It’s for commercial use so the most important is the performance

green oracle
normal drift
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The antenna on my TTGO is the opposite type (plug vs socket) as the one I have on my pi. Be careful!

rose mountain
rose mountain
normal drift
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I don't do commercial work -- I just play with my toys 😉

rose mountain
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The biggest part of my time it’s also about playing with this type of toys !

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Really impressed by LoRa btw

primal warren
#

When you say plug vs socket, are you referring to the difference between standard SMA and RP ("reverse polarity") SMA connectors?

normal drift
primal warren
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There are lots of well qualified antennæ available. DigiKey has a nice selection.

normal drift
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For a commercial product, I would agree that someplace like DIgiKey is a much more reliable source.

rose mountain
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Ok thanks

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I’ll try switching antennas first and we’ll see

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Oh I think I know !

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There was this type of fence many times (5 or 6) between the pi and the TTGo

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It’s metallic

primal warren
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That would attenuate the signal greatly

rose mountain
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Ok.. is there any solution or bypass ?

#

Maybe put the pi in height ?

normal drift
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Raise it up!

rose mountain
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Oh ok !

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I’m sure that’s why, because 80 m is really short

normal drift
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Hopefully that is the cause. It does make sense given the better response in your previous tests.

rose mountain
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I have a picture of the plan, I’ll send it

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If there is no fence between the two antennas but there still has one aside them, does the fence will attenuate the signal ? Or it has to be between them to attenuate it

normal drift
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I would not expect it to be a problem if it is not in between them. RF transmission/reception is tricky. Elevation and line of sight makes it a lot easier.

rose mountain
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What’s line of sight ?

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Like, having nothing between antennas ?

normal drift
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Nothing in the way. One antenna can "see" the other.

rose mountain
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Ok, maybe I can use a long wired antenna to gain height

normal drift
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Or a long coaxial cable connecting the antenna to the transmitter. The wire/antenna has to be tuned to the frequency.

#

I'm sorry, I have to go offline -- good luck!

rose mountain
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Np thanks a lot!

normal drift
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@rose mountain I think I should add that my RF experience is limited to some ham radio activity 20 years ago and recently playing with the RFM9X modules. There are many people around this discord that can give you much better advice, especially @primal warren. For a commercial application I am way outside my “comfort zone”.

rose mountain
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no problem but your advices are really usefull !

coral ermine
primal warren
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They're in stock at the original link I posted (I don't buy anything from amazon)

coral ermine
primal warren
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I suspect it's not an omnidirectional antenna, presumably most of the signal comes from the sides, so if you had a way to mount it horizontally (tricky in a rocket), it would likely work well

coral ermine
rose mountain
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Do we have to keep the antenna vertical ? Or is there any specification about the way to place them ?

normal drift
primal warren
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The alignment also affects the polarization, so it's useful to have both antennæ aligned the same way. If you can't do that, and you want to avoid maximum polarization loss, you can use a "circularly polarized" antenna at one end, which imposes a fixed loss instead one that varies with polarization (this is often done in satellite communications when the satellite orientation is not fixed)

primal warren
coral ermine
primal warren
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It seems to me like it ought to work, but I don't know a lot about that particular module

coral ermine
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alight, thanks for the help!

primal warren
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Where you expecting it to talk to a LoRa module or do you have some R9 gear to talk to it?

coral ermine
primal warren
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Ah, I didn't realize that. I thought it might use its own protocol.

normal drift
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hmm -- I'm curious, where in the R9M documentation do you find that it will be compatible with an RFM95?

coral ermine
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I think it talks about it in the description.

normal drift
grim shore
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Does anyone have a clue how to use the adafruit RFM69HCW with a raspi zero w running rasbian

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I am new to this sort of thing and cant get it to work

normal drift
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I have an RFM69 Bonnet running on a Pi zeroW with Bookworm now. You should be able to get it to work.

grim shore
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I have the adafruit RFM69HCW 433MHZ as seen here https://thepihut.com/products/adafruit-rfm69hcw-transceiver-radio-breakout-433-mhz

The Pi Hut
Adafruit RFM69HCW Transceiver Radio Breakout - 433 MHz (RadioFruit)

"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat."Sending data over long distance

grim shore
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i have tried multiple different manuals written by adafruit

#

currently i am recieving this error with this code

# 
import board
import busio
import digitalio
spi = busio.SPI(board.SCK, MOSI=board.MOSI, MISO=board.MISO)
cs = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.CE1)
reset = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.D25)
import adafruit_rfm69
rfm69 = adafruit_rfm69.RFM69(spi, cs, reset, 433.0)
#

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/nedva/rfm69check.py", line 8, in <module>
rfm69 = adafruitrfm69.RFM69(spi, cs, reset, 433.0)
File "/home/nedva/.local/lib/python3.9/site-packages/adafruit_rfm69.py", line 316, in __init
raise RuntimeError("Invalid RFM69 version, check wiring!")
RuntimeError: Invalid RFM69 version, check wiring!

(program exited with code: 1)
Press return to continue

normal drift
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Can you post a picture of your wiring. That error is almost always due to a wiring issue.

grim shore
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of course

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my camera is terrible quality though

normal drift
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also describe it -- what pins are connected. How are the connections made? Are the Header pins soldered to the boards?

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I have to go offline for an hour or so - my wife and my dog are both asking me to go for a walk 🙂 Post a description of the wiring and a picture if you can. I'll look at it when I get back or perhaps someone else can help.

grim shore
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sorry if it isnt clear

grim shore
normal drift
# grim shore

Just starting to look. Can you also list the connections you are intending to use.

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It looks to me like the gray wire for RST is on GND on the Pi and not on D25.

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Also the GND pin on the RFM69 board looks like the solder did not flow well onto the pad. You might want to reheat that pin.

normal drift
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but it looks like your code is running OK so I don't think there is any issue with RaspiOS

grim shore
grim shore
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?

normal drift
grim shore
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does this work?

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its what ive been referencing

normal drift
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sure - that is fine -- It isa hard to see, but it looks like your RST wire is off by one.

grim shore
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ive just moved it

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let me try the code again

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oh my god

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it works

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thank you so much

normal drift
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Yay!!

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Good luck with your projects!

grim shore
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thank you

normal drift
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BTW -- In your picture, the Antenna is not attached. You should not run it without an antenna.

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It is not good for the RFM module to transmit without an antenna

grim shore
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I have 2 directional antenae at college to collect

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but thank you for the warning

normal drift
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Did you solve that problem?

grim shore
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Not yet

normal drift
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post the code you are running

grim shore
# 
import board
import busio
import digitalio
spi = busio.SPI(board.SCK, MOSI=board.MOSI, MISO=board.MISO)
cs = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.CE1)
reset = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.D25)
import adafruit_rfm69
rfm69 = adafruit_rfm69.RFM69(spi, cs, reset, 433.0)

rfm69.send('Hello world!')
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It clearly isnt as simple as i thought

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ill have to read the documentation

normal drift
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rfm69.send(bytes('Hello world!','utf-8'))

grim shore
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perfect

normal drift
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the payload has to be of type "bytes"

grim shore
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thank you

#

will that work if i want to transmit a stream of data in a while loop?

normal drift
grim shore
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I am intending on sending around 1 string per 3 seconds

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its just atmospheric data and gps coordinates

normal drift
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Your receiver may be a bigger limitation than your transmitter. 1 packet every 3 sec sould be OK

grim shore
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The reciever is an identical model with a large antenna attached

normal drift
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That should not be a problem.

#

There are many parameters that you can "tweak", like the receive timeout. You may have to do some experimentation to find out what works best for you. Ask questions if you run into problems.

normal drift
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It is not at all clear to me why these packets should be regularly received by your RFM9x unless it was specifically configured to do so. They don't specify the actual frequency used. At least not that I have found...yet.

edgy folio
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Yeah it's even more complicated than I thought. Something like ascii/bin/hex/sha256/AES.

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Brute forcing base64 and MD5 was fun but I literally have 1000 better things to do with my time than waste it on trying to crack a custom iteration of SHA256, SHA512, DES/AES/etc...

normal drift
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I'm not so much intersted in decoding it as understanding why you see it at all...

edgy folio
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🤷 I'd like to know that too but I might not get that clue unless I crack it. At this point it's just goint to have to remain a mystery. Maybe someone with more experience working with modern encryption could take a shot at it.

normal drift
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I wish I could reproduce it... no luck so far.

edgy folio
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I can only have my suspicions and spectulation that it's Sidewalk. It would make the most sense. The way things are going these days it could be coming from anything.

normal drift
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True.. no shortage of RF devices in the wild 😉

remote pond
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yeah you’re not going to crack AES or any modern cryptography. implementation flaws, on the other hand, happen all the time

edgy folio
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I don't believe that any encryption is uncrackable. Just depends on how much time and resources you want to dedicate to solving the puzzle. I'm not that interested.

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As soon as I read RSA and AES in Sidewalk's pdf I was like yeah I'm good nvm.

remote pond
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breaking encryption in practice is almost always done by going around the actual cryptography

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design flaws that leak key material or provide insufficient randomness are classics

edgy folio
remote pond
edgy folio
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Amazon echo devices (I highly suspect but not proven) are triggering my RFM mail boombox about 500 times a day on an open frequency. If I set an RFM node that solves it but that still doesn't negate the fact that Amazon devices can completely flood the 900Mhz public band.

remote pond
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yeah spectrum pollution is definitely a thing, unfortunately

normal drift
edgy folio
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It’s a guess. Could also be from new led workshop lights or the wireless toy T-Rex. 😅.

normal drift
# 
Endpoints working in SubG-FSK mode shall be synchronized with a Gateway before an uplink or downlink transmission is performed. The synchronization mechanism works by searching for a periodic frame sent by Gateways, namely Beacon frames. Endpoints shall detect eligible Gateways by searching and receiving Beacons. In addition to its role in synchronization, Beacon payload carries basic information about the state of the Gateway, such as the Gateway’s cloud connection status, hopping seed or sequence number. The Beacon payload is not encrypted, allowing discovery and connection initiation by all Amazon Sidewalk devices. For a detailed description of the Beacon frame format and information carried by the Beacon, see Section 5.1.3.1. Section 5.2.1 describes the Beacon discovery mechanism that Endpoints use in initial synchronization with a Gateway.
``` interesting. this indicates that the beacon is not encrypted.
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But this is FSK, not LoRa

remote pond
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LoRa is spread spectrum, right? should make it somewhat more immune to interference

normal drift
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Yes, That is why I am so puzzled by the interference being seen.

remote pond
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i guess if it’s same modulation and same frequency, you’re going to need a protocol-level way to reject unwanted traffic. and/or use directional antennas, if your transmitters are in fixed locations

young cove
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I'm surprised you are triggering on these packets. Isn't the data content not you what you are expecting/

normal drift
open kelp
#

Hey. I recently started a project with a mini diy ESP32 C3 board. The ESP, i2c EEPROM and everything else works fine but i cant get the WiFi Connection to work, and i don't really know where to start debugging, i don't have any oscilloscope or other fancy measuring equipment.
The PCB has to be as small as possible, so tolerances are tight but i tried my best following them.
Its a 4 layer PCB (0.8mm Thick) 0.5oz inner copper 1oz outer copper.
There is a ground plane underneath the antenna capacitors and inductor but not under the antenna (1. Pic).
The code is my standard WiFi/MQTT Test code, which normally works: https://pastebin.com/dLaCfLJg
The ESP Gets to the setup_wifi() function but stays in the while loop.

I tried swapping the antenna with one of an bought esp32 c3 board but it didn't work. My antenna worked on the bought board tho.

Pastebin
#include #include "WiFi.h"#include #include

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

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I've also done impedance calculations and it should be fine

image-6.png
open kelp
#

I just saw this little white dot on the inductor. Does it have a polarity?

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If yes which way does it go on? It's a LQP03TN2N5C02D

fallow plank
#

RTL8720DN eRPC CircuitPython development

primal warren
kindred vine
#

HI,
does RSSI change with Tx power change, I have set the TX_Power to 23 and then set it to 5 and ED and GW where in the same place as before but I don't see any difference in the RSSI. I a not able to understand.

primal warren
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It can, but it's fairly loose. Additionally, the transmitter itself might be throttled by SWR so its effective power isn't really changing, or the receiver could be overloaded, or there could be interference, intermodulation distortion, limiting, multipath, etc.

open kelp
remote pond
#

<@&327289013561982976>

plain grotto
remote pond
#

thought the discord server link filter would have automodded that

plain grotto
fading lynx
#

theoretically would having a wifi network that has passwords which continuously change and update be more secure than the current wifi state. (assume that the devices connected would always stay connected even when pwd changes)

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or is there something im missing, i have done some research and yes there is more than jsut the pwd that keeps wifi secure but from what ive found that seems to be the main thing. and for example the way people strengthen their wifi security is by just putting longer pwds

umbral oxide
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@fading lynx That's a complicated question. It depends a lot on who and / or what you want to secure against (threat model). There are different authentication modes for wifi, and those have different security aspects. You may find that the process of frequently changing passwords has a higher likelihood of exposing them through other means. I'm also not sure if you can change the password on-the-fly and keep stations authed and associated. First order of business is to use equipment from reputable vendors, use the best auth mode supported by your AP and stations, and then to use a strong password that isn't shared with untrusted people or devices.

rose mountain
#

Hello,
I’m currently using the LoRa protocol on 868Mhz.
It looks like sometimes the TTGO automatically restart after catching a packet. But if we put the antenna far away with a wire we don’t have this issue (90% sure)

Is there something like radioelectric interferences ?
We’re not sure that the issue is after catching a packet, but it only appears after receiving a packet and « power up » a pin.

Thanks !

vocal shell
#

hello! I am trying to get the LoRa rfm95x radio hat to work on my rpi zero 2 w and it is not being detected by the i2c interface. the board worked fine before on my rpi zero 1... i am not sure what to do

primal warren
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I'd start with an I2C scan to see if anything is recognized

normal drift
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Actually, the I2C interface is only for the display, not for the radio. How is the board connected to the Pi?

vocal shell
#

@normal drift yep that's the board. Rpi zero 2 w on Debian bookworm arm64. Literally did a full-upgrade last night. Board is connected via GPIO header. No customizations or jumpers.

I'm following this guide just like I did before and running the rfm95x_check.py script

Adafruit Learning System
LoRa and LoRaWAN Radio for Raspberry Pi

Add low-power long-range radio communication to your Raspberry Pi Project

normal drift
vocal shell
normal drift
#

Hmm. Only thing I can suggest is to unplug it and reconnect. Check for any bent pins.

#

Then try just initializing the radio just to see if SPI is working.

vocal shell
#

Yeah I may just reimage (again ugh) and start all over.

normal drift
#

Good luck. I have several working on pi zero 2ws. It should work!

vocal shell
#

Thank you for responding! I will check back in a couple days and let you know if it ends up working.

wide basalt
#

@vocal shell Silly question, but you have enabled the i2c bus on the GPIO header, yes? It's not enabled by default. edit: Disregard, I see this was already asked. 🙂

normal drift
# vocal shell Thank you for responding! I will check back in a couple days and let you know if...

FYI -- I ran i2cdetect on mine ... ```(blinka_venv) jerryneedell@gjnpilora:~/projects/rfm9x $ i2cdetect -y 1
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f
00: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
10: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
20: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
30: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 3c -- -- --
40: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
50: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
60: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
70: -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

vocal shell
#

new problem. the board thinks buttons A and B are constantly being pressed

#

Sending signals too. Not sure why this is happening

20240322_202013.jpg
wide basalt
#

@vocal shell never ends, huh? I have some ESP32c3+SX1262 units en route.. What cool stuff are you planning on doing with that setup (once you get it all working)?

vocal shell
#

im trying to get it to work with meshtastic. some of the peeps in the meshtastic server have mentioned its possible so im trying to work it out for myself. definitely bleeding edge stuff

wide basalt
#

I have a Heltec LoRa v3 running meshtastic upstairs.. Just waiting for the day someone else sets up a node near me 😛

vocal shell
#

ive got 3 t beams i use for atak and some heltec ones. theres a super sick case on printables i am going to print for it

wide basalt
vocal shell
wide basalt
#

Nice lookin. No room for GPS, but many applications for meshtastic don't need one

vocal shell
#

nothing a little onshape tinkercad cant fix

normal drift
#

Just to make sure, is the header on the Pi soldered in place? can you show a picture of the soldering.

#

It appears to be in a case, are you sure the case top is not pressing the buttons?

vocal shell
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I'm running the default code from the web page. I even tried flipping the logic if not buttonA.value -> if buttonA.value and that didn't do anything. It's only buttons A and B that are doing it. Button C is working fine. The headers are soldered on, let me get a picture.

#

Yes im sure the case is not pressing the buttons. In the pic with the flipper, the case top is open and it's still transmitting

normal drift
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It sounds like, for some reason, buttons A and B are grounded so always triggering. Can you try just testing the buttons manually via Python or a simple script. If they are not working, it may be an issue with the board. If so, I would suggest posting to the support forums https://forums.adafruit.com/viewforum.php?f=19 if we or someone else can't find a solution.

#

If you have a multimeter, you can test if the buttons are functional.

vocal shell
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I will check for shorts and see if I messed up my soldering somewhere. I have some press fit headers coming in tomorrow so I might try and change it out

normal drift
#

Good luck -- I would create a simple button test just to diagnose this. The radio and display seems to be working OK. It will be easier to test one thing at a time. Also since you said you modified the code to switch the logic at some pint, double check that you put it back to the if not button.value These are definitely active low! Pressing the button will ground the Pin it is connected to.

vocal shell
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Don't worry i made a copy of the file before I started changing stuff.

thorny sky
#

Hi all 🙂
I am planning to create a sensor module which has RF capability to stream information in real-time to a base station. As I never have done any RF related PCB design I was asking myself if it is better to have a longer Rf trace on the PCB to the edge of the board or use a UFL/MMCX to SMA pigtail adapter? Any help is greatly appreciated 😉

wide basalt
#

Depends on your requirements. A pigtail to sma will allow you to attach antennae of various gains for different applications, and will allow for better range overall. A PCB trace antenna will take up less room, have fewer parts, but will have a single antenna option and reduced range over a good external antenna.

thorny sky
#

Thanks for the quick answer. I think I may have made myself not clear enough 😄 I wanted to know the difference between a long segment of 50 ohm impedance trace on the PCB to a SMA connector at the edge of the board and a pigtail. I do not want to use a PCB antenna 😉

primal warren
#

I'd probably opt for the SMA connector, not because of performance differences, but mechanical strength. The U.FL connectors are delicate, getting an connector removal tool* is recommended, and they only support a limited number of mate/demate cycles.

#
  • Getting the tool isn't difficult or expensive, but in my experience, finding it when I need it can be frustrating
sharp tiger
#

Great day everyone. I’m putting together a kit building classes with a local ham radio club. Looking at doing projects with the pico or other rp2040 processors. Trying to focus on sdr or loran related topics. Each session will be for 2.5 hours and would like to do a completed project per session. Each session will be theory circuit then building. Would like projects that would fit on a breadboard so no or limited soldering meaning no smd only through hole. The next level classes will be designed for more complex circuits and smd/through hole soldering. I saw some basic sdr circuts but looking for any suggestions. Class structure would be circuit theory /circuit build/operation of project then when class is over pass out a shopping list for the next class. Once again this is for a well established and active ham radio club but no kit building etc to excite new members. Any thoughts are welcome

primal warren
#

SDR is pretty modular, so you'd presumably just put a Pico and an SDR module on a breadboard and hook them together with SPI or somesuch, and then run antenna leads to the SDR. This doesn't get into circuit theory at all, but does avoid the issues of trying to run RF through a breadboard

sharp tiger
#

No not at all. Plenty of examples of transmitting receiving without using an sdr module.

young cove
#

5714 is currently out of stock. These are easily programmable in CircuitPython or Arduino.

#

this is an extremely common RF clock generator as you know, often used in SDR (and TX) applications

sharp tiger
#

@young cove Thank you very much this is extremely helpful…..

open kelp
#

Hey. I created a DIY ESP32 C3 Board with a WiFi chip antenna. Till now i haven't managed to get it to work, so i ordered a VNA and am now trying to figure things out. Since i know nothing about VNA's i use this video as a tutorial, however in munite 6:35 the reference plane gets set to the VNA's connector and he just adds 700ps E-Delay for his cable. How do i get that value for my cable? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbXq0ZwjETo&t=421s

YouTube
HB9BLA Wireless
019 Inverted-F PCB Antenna: How to tune PCB circuits using a NanoVNA

PCB antennas are pretty common because they are small and cheap. Can we use them for our projects? How do they work? And: How can we test and tune them? Let’s look at an antenna for the 868-915MHz ISM bands. As a side-effect, you will learn how to measure impedances directly on a PCB.

Links:
LiteVNA (Currently best "NanoVNA"): https://s.click.a...

▶ Play video
primal warren
#

So if your cable is RG-58, it has a propagation velocity of 0.66, so 140mm of it would give a delay of 709ps.

open kelp
#

so for a RG316 cable with a propagation velocity of 0.69 and 15cm length it would be 699.99ps

primal warren
#

Seems right to me

open kelp
# primal warren Seems right to me

Alr. Thanks. Also funny thing, when i soldered on the coax cable the esp studently had a perfect wifi connection with just the cable as an antenna.

primal warren
#

At that wavelength, most any piece of wire would make a fair antenna

orchid narwhal
#

Hi friends, I'm working on a hat for a Raspberry Pi Pico W, that includes a few sensors, and a RFM69 module. I want to use a board antenna connector like this one https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/molex/0732511153/11305709. Do I need to worry about anything special for the trace between the RFM69 Antenna pin, and the antenna? I tried to keep it as short as possible, and wide.

image.png
#

Anything else I should watch out for?

open kelp
young cove
open kelp
#

The chip antenna itself works fine (tested on a esp32 c3 mini board) i just couldn't really comply with the clearances, i thought it should still work (perhaps a bit worse but i don't need crazy range, just in my room) if i chip away view mm here and there.

#

this is how the 4 layer board looks like btw

image.png
young cove
open kelp
# young cove The keepaway clearances were spec'd for a reason. there are no traces underneath...
  • No traces underneath the antenna, 2 solder pads (USB D+ and D-) underneath the feedline but with 2 layers of ground between
  • I tried my best at getting the impedance to the center of the smith chart in the pic you can see the best i got with my limited knowledge
  • The recommended clearance in the datasheet is 8x3mm, I've got 7.8x2.6mm
  • There should be no issue with the layout and RF is getting to the antenna, cause i got a WiFi connection, when soldering on the coax cable
  • But it could just be badly matched, i just soldered on different capacitors/inductors and resistors and looked what got me closest to the center.
IMG_20240330_182431926.png
young cove
median latch
#

(question I had while reading about digital-over-radio protocols) - it seems like IR protocols typically use a "base" on-off square wave (~38Khz) that's itself then on/off modulated to send messages, whereas most 433Mhz protocols seem to rely on just on-off keying the 433Mhz signal. Is the difference just that 433Mhz receivers are expected to filter the spectrum enough/there's much less noise to deal with/ compared with IR receivers?

primal warren
#

Yes, that's it: lots of things produce IR and lots of it, so you need to be able to distinguish the signal you're looking for even when it's swamped with something much stronger. There's not as much competition in the 433Mhz space.

restive fjord
#

hi we are havign some trouble with the rfm69 radio, we are getting the error message : runtime error: invalid rfm69 version, check wiring! and some noites about line 11 of the radio code. we have checked this however and everything seems to be correct. does anyone have any ideas where this error couldl stem from? thank you :)

normal drift
restive fjord
#

we are just using the rfm69, soldering it onto circuitboards. i can send a pic in a second

normal drift
#

What microcontroller -- what code?

restive fjord
#

there are like lots of radios on there but the only one being usedis the wired one

#

the soldering is alright

#

soldering

Screenshot_2024-04-16_at_20.42.28.png
#

this is the code, the problematic bit is line 11 but we cant seem to find anything wrong with it.

normal drift
#

It is really hard to verify the wiring. Have you verified every connection?

restive fjord
#

yes absolutely

#

using a multimeter

normal drift
#

I dont see the connections to GP2,3,4,6,7

restive fjord
#

MOSI is to gp3 and miso is to gp4

normal drift
#

I was disoriented, now I see, but it is very hard to follow.

restive fjord
#

yes it is, but the wires should all definitely be in the right places.

#

which means its to do with the code, most likely

#

we had it soldered by a quite experienced solderer.

normal drift
#

The connections to the pico from the wires look marginal to me.

#

The code you have should detect the board OK -- you will need some cahnges to actually use it, but one step at a time...

restive fjord
#

ah why not? we want to focus on troubleshooting more the code than the wiring

#

is there anything you would recommend to change the code to make it work?

normal drift
#

But if it does not detect the board, you are wasting your time.

restive fjord
#

it has definitely worked before though, we tried it with the lora radios.

#

i will visit the link thanks

#

ok ive checked it but its exactly the same.

#

from where we sourced the radio from, the person said it is an older chip. is that a problem?

#

do you think that could affect its ability to use the libraries?

normal drift
normal drift
#

I have used those boards many times with the CircuitPython library.

restive fjord
#

would that be visible? would you be able to tell?

restive fjord
normal drift
young cove
#

i would suggest breadboarding this with jumpers to test if you have some spare identical RFM boards. You can test just with a pico and the RFM board

normal drift
young cove
normal drift
normal drift
# restive fjord noted thank you - we will check

AS you can see from the above comments, there is a possibility that you have a board with a different version ID. You may want to try the newly released version of the library - it is in the latest "bundle"

young cove
normal drift
#

Yes -- it will complicate future issues....

#

I noted that in the RAdioHead library they now just test for the ID not being 0x00 or 0xff....anything else is accepted.

young cove
#

maybe it should print out the ID that was read. Do the RFM9x have a different ID (if you use one by mistake)

normal drift
#

yes, rfm9x is different (0x12)

#

I'll add a printout of the id in the error message to my new library. Not sure we want to add code to the old one..

young cove
#

good point

normal drift
#

On the rfm9x the version is in a different register though so it will fail anyway.

modern patio
#

Anyone who has worked with the "ESP32-S3 Feather with 4MB Flash 2MB PSRAM" (#5477) - how limited is the BLE? There is a pretty big warning on the page. Is it able to do Wifi and BLE both? Or is it liek the similarl CPU Airlift that requires hardware selection between Wifi and BLE?

young cove
#

There is no enough room in 4MB flash for OTA and BLE. We may not support BLE on 4MB boards, or remove OTA instead. We are discussing what to do.

modern patio
# young cove It is limited right now as the warning indicates. A more complete implementation...

I ttally understand. So using Adafruit parts, what is my best path to a resonably complete wifi/ble bridge? I find feather to be convenient, but I can certainly do stemma or breadboarding.

The Pico W? The RP2040 with an Airlift? The ESP32-S3? Each seams to have divergent limitations. Don't misunderstand, i totally get that Adafruit is more of a rapid moving company of options, not really geared to providing a production ready stack.. but I need to both move fast and pay some attentiont o eventual production :)(

#

The pico W looks promising, and the BLE seems enabled under Micropython, but the storage seems pretty anemic compared to the RP2040 feather.

young cove
modern patio
#

Gotcha. Thanks!

modern patio
shrewd vault
#

Could Lora be a good low cost ish way to create a pps output for indoor use due to lack of gps penetration?

remote pond
#

there’s WWV, etc (or your national equivalents)

primal warren
#

Or counting power line cycles (they may vary slightly over the day will but will average out to the correct value as they're widely used as a timekeeping reference)

steady vapor
#

if you have access to any wifi signal, you could use even the lower level timestamps as a crude time source to generate a pulse signal

remote pond
#

or if your device has Bluetooth and will regularly connect to devices with current time service (CTS), that’s another way to sync (though not as precisely)

shrewd vault
#

Thanks for the suggestions. I can't find any OTS WWV modules, so that might work for me. Also, not connected to mains in any way, so can't do AC timing. If I did WiFi, I could do NTP, but that's a bit of heavy lifting for my Arduino. Lora looks to be the best option, FCC certified modules for under $10 and lots of Arduino library support. And gets me the range I need indoors, through walls at a 50-100m.

remote pond
#

huh, apparently the main supplier of WWVB receiver chips stopped making them, so people are scavenging them from used “atomic” clocks

primal warren
#

There seems to be a replacement chip (the CME8000), but it's apparently buggy.

remote pond
#

(i guess the VLF WWVB is more popular for appliances than the HF WWV due to better propagation indoors?)

static juniper
#

Hi folks, using an ebyte LoRa module on a custom breakout PCB. Are there any obvious errors (besides the missing stitching vias)?
Im using a whip antenna, and dont know if those need to be in the middle of the board or not.
Also, should I route the SPI signals on an internal layer? I think these antennas need a good ground plane to work well.

image.png
primal warren
#

You say you're using a whip antenna, but that looks like an end launch SMA connector footprint

static juniper
#

Yes, the antenna attatches to the SMA connector
I have no idea what I am doing, so I might have the terminology wrong

primal warren
#

For connectorized antennas like the ones that use an SMA connector, the antenna or its mounting provides the ground plane, so the PCB doesn't have to. Also mounting the antenna remotely helps avoid interference between the antenna and the circuitry.

rose mountain
#

Hi, I have problem with one of my RPI which is running a Lora process in python in background. Sometimes ssh connection are down and network too. I have: ssh connection reset by peer. I'm using Bullseye and RPI 3B+. Does it look familiar to one of you or do you think it's due to the lib that I'm using ?

primal warren
#

That sounds like either sshd is crashing or a network problem.

strange tundra
#

I’m wondering if this is an appropriate place to ask this, but is anyone experienced with ham radio? I’ve been curious about it lately. Interested in starting but don’t fully understand the point of jumping in “casually”. I kinda see ham as just a fancy way of connecting with people across the world, and I’m an introvert. 😬

pallid ruin
#

Ham radio made a lot more sense before the internet

primal warren
#

I find ham radio a way to tinker with stuff. There are lots of bands and modes, so if talking to people isn't your thing (I'm an introvert too), there's plenty to enjoy. I jumped in casually quite a while ago, got some cheap gear and played with it.

remote pond
#

if you get into contesting, propagation testing, etc, your interactions with other people can be highly scripted and non-social, if you want

young cove
# strange tundra I’m wondering if this is an appropriate place to ask this, but is anyone experie...

I was very impressed as a 12yo by the amazing ionosphere and how a weak signal could travel thousands of miles. I built a kit radio and did some shortwave listening. For various reasons I wasn't able to get a license then, but got one in grad school. I built a number of low-power radios and related test equipmentin the 1987-1993 range, then didn't do much, though I kept an antenna up. Recently I bought a new radio and starting doing FT8, which is a stylized digital mode, which I enjoy a lot.

remote pond
#

digital modes are great if you don't want to talk with other people by voice. (i guess Morse Code counts as a kind of digital, too)

strange tundra
strange tundra
#

Also these different "modes" make it feel like a game with different modes.

strange tundra
median latch
strange tundra
# median latch What made you curious about ham radio btw? (ham here, tend to mostly play with b...

Most recently, probably a YouTube video on it or something. My first contact with it was in Boy Scouts, like 25 years ago. More recently, I bought a shortwave radio in hopes of hearing signals from far off places and sampling them for use in my synthesizers.

Going forward, I’m hoping to prepare for when the SHTF, and to see if it’s possible to somehow wire some form of ham radio into a modular synth, controlling the various parameters.

median latch
strange tundra
# median latch (If you haven't already looked it at) one thought is there's a lot of interestin...

Yeah. I find myself drawn to POTA, the fr8 thing (cant remember the exact name), and the email thing. Basically anything that lets you send data packets. But I am curious about making contacts and listening too.

Trying to nail down a piece of gear. I’ve heard of the SDR dongles. I have a Mac, but also have parallels and windows. I tried Kiwi sdr, but so far can’t quite figure it out. I need to learn and get my first license first, but that might take a while.

I know I’ve been rambling, but I do have a message out to the local ham club. Hopefully I’ll hear back soon!

primal warren
#

There should be Mac software for a bunch of modes

sacred crest
#

Poking my head into the discord for the first time in a while, coincidentally. I’m a ham - got my license back around 1991 or so and was active in my college’s radio club but then didn’t touch it for a few decades. Im getting back into it and starting with one of those digital modes. A friend got bit by the Pokemon Go (aka “stamp collecting”) aspect of the digital FT8 stuff - you have a fairly structured communication with the other station and then it’s over so it’s perfect for introverts. The stamp collecting/Pokemon Go part is having contacts with people in different geographical spots.

#

The FT8 stuff is made for low power so you can use a radio that fits in your pocket (the antenna, not so much). I’ve got a small radio and a raspi running the “wsjt-x” software. The software handles all the work - it cycles through the structured message stuff and plugs in the right numbers etc.

#

You do need accurate time on whatever’s running the software.

primal warren
#

Perfect for introverts? I feel seen...

void jetty
#

I’d like to get radio on this microcontroller (MatrixPortal M4, https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-matrixportal-m4/pinouts) to have it receive messages from this feather (https://www.adafruit.com/product/5712)

It seems like I need to add RFM69 (https://www.adafruit.com/product/3070) to the M4. I don’t understand the pins that need to be connected though. I’m reading the two pinout diagrams but don’t know where to start to bring them together.

Any help or pointer to the right resource is appreciated. Thanks!

Adafruit Feather RP2040 RFM69 Packet Radio - 868 or 915MHz

This is the Adafruit Feather RP2040 RFM69 Packet Radio (868 or 915 MHz). We call these RadioFruits, our take on an microcontroller with packet radio transceiver ...

Adafruit RFM69HCW Transceiver Radio Breakout - 868 or 915 MHz

"You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat.  You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles.  Do you understand this? And radio operates ...

primal warren
open kelp
#

Hi. Im having troubles getting an NRF24L01 (mini) to work. for some reason radio.available() always returns true. I've read, that its related to power issues but i dont think thats the problem.
Here is my Code: https://pastebin.com/zTdmiuWL
And here a schematic of the whole PCB (EEPROM and LED works fine)

image.png
Pastebin
#include #include #include #include # - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

void jetty
# primal warren The product page has a link to the learn guide <https://learn.adafruit.com/adafr...

Thanks, I have access to these 11 pins

https://learn.adafruit.com/assets/111881

I see the 3.3v, GND, but dont understand if I need to connect the "EN" on the NRF to the M4.

And then I get further confused, I don't see these pins on the M4 so I don't figure out how they match.

SCK - This is the SPI Clock pin, its an input to the chip
MISO - this is the Microcontroller In Serial Out pin, for data sent from the radio to your processor, 3.3V logic level
MOSI - this is the Microcontroller Out Serial In pin, for data sent from your processor to the radio
CS - this is the Chip Select pin, drop it low to start an SPI transaction. Its an input to the chip
RST - this is the Reset pin for the radio. It's pulled high by default which is reset. Pull LOW to turn on the radio
G0 - the radio's "GPIO 0" pin, also known as the IRQ pin, used for interrupt request notification from the radio to the microcontroller, 3.3V logic level

void jetty
umbral oxide
#

@void jetty unfortunately the SPI pins aren't exposed as pads or headers on the MatrixPortal M4, so it's hard to add a new SPI peripheral

#

it might be possible to use other pins for SPI (easier on Espressif chips than on M4)

#

from the pinout:

or SPI (SCk on pad 1, MOSI on pad 0 or 3, MISO on any pad remaining)

void jetty
#

As a hobbyist this is really complicated so I apologize as I try to keep up. What is a pad? Here is how far I am.

m4-radio.png
umbral oxide
#

SERCOMs are complicated... it's been a while, but I think "pad" refers to the number after the decimal in the blue e.g. "S5.2" ("S5.2" is SERCOM 5, pad 2)

#

the connection of RST to RST will reset the radio when you hardware reset the MatrixPortal, but I think you want a GPOIO GPIO on the Matrix Portal to go to the radio RST so that software can reset the radio

void jetty
#

I'm trying to stop connecting these devices to wifi and having them communicate through a middleman webserver. Its been a very high barrier to entry to break that bad habit though.

umbral oxide
#

Yeah, GPIO (General Purpose Inout / Output) is just a pin you'll set up as a digital output on the MatrixPortal to issue a reset to the radio from software. Similar for the G0/IRQ and CS pins.

void jetty
#

Sounds good I can move it to RST (RFM69) to A4 (MatrixPortla M4), I dont see a path to connect these though (SCK, MISO, MOSI, CS). Is it impossible to connect these boards?

SCK - This is the SPI Clock pin, its an input to the chip
MISO - this is the Microcontroller In Serial Out pin, for data sent from the radio to your processor, 3.3V logic level
MOSI - this is the Microcontroller Out Serial In pin, for data sent from your processor to the radio
CS - this is the Chip Select pin, drop it low to start an SPI transaction. Its an input to the chip
RST - this is the Reset pin for the radio. It's pulled high by default which is reset. Pull LOW to turn on the radio (A4 on MatrixPortal)
G0 - the radio's "GPIO 0" pin, also known as the IRQ pin, used for interrupt request notification from the radio to the microcontroller, 3.3V logic level (A3 on MatrixPortal)

umbral oxide
#

Looking at the MatrixPortal pinout, the limited pins available that are on the same SERCOM (S0) are A1-A4.

or SPI (SCk on pad 1, MOSI on pad 0 or 3, MISO on any pad remaining)
So, SCK has to be on pad 1, so SCK has to be pin A1 (S0.1). MOSI can be A2 or A4, let's go with A2. MISO can use the remaining A3 (S0.2).
This leaves A4 for RST. I think CS can be anything, and G0 / IRQ can be anything... RX and TX would be the easiest (although potentially you could tap into the pins on the I2C or Analog connectors) ...this is a bit of a guess, check my work or try it out and see if it works.

void jetty
#

Thank you, I'll go for it.

young cove
dense thorn
#

So I’ve made a really simple tx/rx pair of radio modules. They’re basically a walkie talkie pair. The current draw on the receiver is 16mAH, which is 5x higher than the receiver - which only does something if it sees a change on a hardware pin. Is 16mAH consumption sustainable for a wearable with a rechargeable battery? I think I can get 12hrs from a 400mah battery if I’m thinking correctly.

young cove
primal warren
#

The receiver draws 5x as much as the ... receiver?

hard mulch
#

Hi. I'm working on a Adafruit ESP32-S3 project, setting up MQTT. I have had a TON of trouble getting it working. It would disconnect all the time, or not connect at all, usually complaining about socket errors or timeouts. I eventually decided to try a different internet wifi access point, so I switched from my home wifi access point to a mobile hotspot access point, and that fixed everything! Now all worked as expected.

Anyone have an idea how I could figure out why the ESP32-S3 didn't like my home internet access point?

pale dagger
#

I think the short answer is "maybe, it's either easy or hard". Check for logs on the router or ESP32-S3 (what firmware is it running?). If there's something obvious, there you go. If it's not obvious, it's probably going to be hard to figure out, and may not be possible with regular consumer devices. You can also try basic troubleshooting stuff like upgrading firmware on the ESP32-S3, on the home router, and checking signal strength.

primal warren
#

Could be an issue with DHCP leases

pale dagger
#

If you move the ESP32 closer to the router, does it get better? If yes, then you might be dealing with signal strength and/or interference problems

hard mulch
#

Sorry, I had to leave the keyboard. Thank you for the suggestions. I'll look into the DHCP and try moving closer to the router.

indigo aspen
#

I am using a feather m0 rfm96 lora 433mhz to build a lotek test tag. the test tag send out a pulse and then it waits a specific number of milliseconds then sends out another pulse terminate the first number and start the next number. a tag id uses four pulses with these measured gaps. I am using radiolib to program the radio and here is the function I am using. now it appears that the timing of the gaps are fluctuating. does anybody have any experience with tight time tolerances that can provide a suggestion?

#

void pulse(uint16_t dlen, uint16_t dlen1, uint16_t dlen2)
{
dlen = (dlen -2) * 1000 - 500; // - LOTEK_TIMING_DELAY
dlen1 = (dlen1 -2) * 1000 -500;
dlen2 = (dlen2 -2) * 1000 - 500;

__disable_irq();
int16_t state = radio.transmitDirect(); // lotekFreq);
delayMicroseconds(2000); // target 2.5ms 1300
// delay(10); // for testing with TinySA
radio.standby();
delayMicroseconds(dlen);
state = radio.transmitDirect(); // lotekFreq);
delayMicroseconds(2000); // target 2.5ms 1300
// delay(10); // for testing with TinySA
radio.standby();
delayMicroseconds(dlen1);
state = radio.transmitDirect(); // lotekFreq);
delayMicroseconds(2000); // target 2.5ms 1300
// delay(10); // for testing with TinySA
radio.standby();
delayMicroseconds(dlen2);
state = radio.transmitDirect(); // lotekFreq);
delayMicroseconds(2000); // target 2.5ms 1300
// delay(10); // for testing with TinySA
radio.standby();
__enable_irq();
if (state != RADIOLIB_ERR_NONE)
{
Serial.print("TX failed, code ");
Serial.println(state);
}

}

void jetty
# umbral oxide Looking at the MatrixPortal pinout, the limited pins available that are on the s...

Hi, I'm working throught this suggestion, here is my code and I get this error, I'm not sure how to debug this,

File "code.py", line 28, in <module> File "adafruit_rfm69.py", line 316, in __init__ RuntimeError: Invalid RFM69 version, check wiring!

`# --- Radio setup ---

Define radio frequency in MHz. Must match your

module. Can be a value like 915.0, 433.0, etc.

RADIO_FREQ_MHZ = 915.0

Define Chip Select and Reset pins for the radio module.

CS = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.TX)
G0 = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.RX)
RESET = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.A4)
spi = busio.SPI(board.A1, MOSI=board.A2, MISO=board.A3)
rfm69 = adafruit_rfm69.RFM69(spi, CS, RESET, RADIO_FREQ_MHZ)`

void jetty
#

Sorry I unplugged my connections and tried again and it works like a charm! I really appreciate it, my microcontroller is working as expected.

hollow blaze
#

not sure this is the right channel to ask this but how would you synchronize time on a board from GPS signal using low power?
the citizen Satellite Wave GPS Watches can do it and they dont even have battery.

primal warren
#

Many low power devices use a time service (DCF77, WWV, etc.) instead of GPS

worn bridge
# hollow blaze not sure this is the right channel to ask this but how would you synchronize ti...

While there isn’t a battery that needs to be conventionally charged by a wire or an inductive coil, there is a battery or small power collecting capacitor inside the watch charged by solar cells placed discreetly on the edge or under the dial. One would have to select a low power receiver, and based on the receiver selected, carefully manage the power modes to minimize the consumption.

slim flicker
#

achievement of the day: read I/Q samples off an RTL-SDR and learned how to get a decent-looking FFT off them as a 'hello world' type deal

#

seeing the sample rate being like 2 MHz tops but the center frequency in FM radio range really confused me at first, and i'm still not sure how that's being accomplished lol

#

the math of how I/Q samples work is still a little fuzzy to me so if somebody has a good resource to recommend, i'm all ears yotsuOrei all the stuff i found online left a little to be desired

#

i think i was just confused because i was expecting to need to turn the I/Q samples into a real-valued signal, but that wasn't the case lol

winter pier
#

Trying to hunt down an issue with high latency in device to device communication over local wifi network. When any device on my network pings the router, it's low ping, never above 3ms. When a device pings another device on the same network, I see a curious pattern. Over about 20 seconds the ping will creep from around 15ms to around 250ms, then immediately resets back down to 15ms and starts the climb again. I've tried changing the wifi channel, no change. I don't have another router to test on, but I have tested on multiple devices, all see the same bad device to device ping. I don't know enough about how things are routed to know where to start looking from here. Thoughts?

winter pier
#

doing more testing, the ping from device to device goes up as the ping from device to router goes up, but the relationship is very non-lienar. Each device can ping router at around 10ms when the ping to device is 200ms, etc.

green oracle
winter pier
#

appreciate the info! If you were trying to decrease device to device latency, without making one of the devices an AP, while keeping the router in the mix, besides pre-caching data as best as possible, any high level tips?

#

is that something that could be a router setting depending on router? etc

green oracle
#

What you're seeing could also be a "wake up" time for the receiving device to bring its transmitter out of a low power state.

winter pier
#

gotcha. I am however seeing it consistently on all devices. I've tested from laptops, to desktops, to an esp32 I put basic ping code on, etc.

green oracle
winter pier
#

fair enough! I'm a voyager into a new land a bit here, appreciate the sanity check 🙂

green oracle
#

Full disclosure: I don't know much about the inner workings of wifi. What you are describing though is about what I'd expect from wifi.

#

And any gamer will tell you that wifi can give really inconsistent ping (though not usually 250ms spikes).

radiant rose
#

morning all

#

I have started a cp project for a vhf radio project

#

we are working to make a 6m/2m transciever

#

but we are using the si570 chip and I need to know how to load the si570.py we wrote

#

we also have the main.py which is the radio interface

radiant rose
#

ok guys well I have looked and I think we will use si5351

#

I have some basic code for this but need help

#

is there a place to post for review and help getting it to work on the si5351

normal drift
#

You can post it here -- it may be best to create a thread for the dicsussion. see <#welcome message> for instructions on posting code.

radiant rose
#

says I dont have permission to post there

normal drift
#

create a thread here in this channel and post to the thread

radiant rose
#

never dona thread but ok

normal drift
#

The link was just for the instructions on posting code

#

Just click the thread (spool) icon and select create -- I can create it for you if you want

radiant rose
#

2m-6m-radio-code

#

so do I post code there or a link to code ?

#

i posted the .py file

radiant fossil
#

Hey guys does anyone know how to measure the output impedance of an ESP32-S3 bare chip? (As in, LNA_IN pin goes through a pi network to match the 35 + j0 to 50 + j0, but wanting to make sure it is indeed 50 + j0 lol). Thanks 🙂

radiant rose
#

ok got the vfo working with si5351

radiant rose
#

so the next issue is getting rit to change the last 2 digits on the freq 144000.0 as it displays

#

and the get the steps to apply when changing freq step mode

#

and then to add 10 memories for storing and recalling freq

#

and then to scope and make shure the si5351 is changing

#

but the display works

#

need a way to better debug things

radiant rose
#

we have most the code working just a few small things still to go

#

but man circuitpy is addicting

young cove
open canopy
#

I have a project currently using a qualia esp32-s3 board that depending on the mode either uses wifi intermittently or not at all. To extend battery life, I would like to be able to power down and restart the radio. Is it possible? What section of the documentation do I need to read?

#

using circuitpython

young cove
open canopy
#

Can you clarify some details and my interpretation of that?

  • even if not importing wifi, if credentials are in settings.toml, wifi will be started up?
  • with import wifi and the credentials in settings.toml, is wifi started automatically? and connected? is wifi.radio.connect(…) needed before attempting to access network resources?
  • Once connected, the radio can be turned off with wifi.radio.enable = False. That will disconnect from any access point that was being used. To later access the network, the radio needs to be enabled then explicitly connected again? And create a new socketpool.
young cove
#

third bullet: yes. Please do try it -- there may be quirks to fix, but that is the way I expect it to work.

#

you may want to measure the current consumption as you are doing this

open canopy
# young cove if there are valid credentials in settings.toml, it will auto-connect. you don't...

I wrote a small test script to verify expectations. It looks like it does match what you expect.

import os
import time
import wifi
print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: Starting up…')
ap_ssid = os.getenv('CIRCUITPY_WIFI_SSID')
ap_password = os.getenv('CIRCUITPY_WIFI_PASSWORD')
def wait_for_auto_connect() -> None:
    auto_wait = time.monotonic_ns() + 20 * 1_000_000_000
    while time.monotonic_ns() < auto_wait:
        print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: Autoconnect {wifi.radio.connected =}')
        if wifi.radio.connected:
            break
        time.sleep(5.0)
def manual_connect() -> None:
    while not wifi.radio.connected:
        try:
            wifi.radio.connect(ap_ssid, ap_password)
        except ConnectionError as e:
            print(f'Error connecting: {e}')
        print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: Manual connect {wifi.radio.connected =}')
        if not wifi.radio.connected:
            time.sleep(5.0)
def radio_off_and_on() -> None:
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: {wifi.radio.connected =}')
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: turning radio off')
    wifi.radio.enabled = False
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: {wifi.radio.connected =}')
    time.sleep(20.0)
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: {wifi.radio.connected =}')
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: turning radio on')
    wifi.radio.enabled = True
wait_for_auto_connect()
if not wifi.radio.connected:
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: Not auto connected')
manual_connect()
time.sleep(20.0)
radio_off_and_on()
wait_for_auto_connect()
if not wifi.radio.connected:
    print(f'{time.monotonic_ns()}: Not auto (re)connected')
manual_connect()
#

In serial console, that gives:

1591683258065: Starting up…
1591685607911: Autoconnect wifi.radio.connected =True
1611686614991: wifi.radio.connected =True
1611687408459: turning radio off
1611761871340: wifi.radio.connected =False
1631763153082: wifi.radio.connected =False
1631763885501: turning radio on
1631765991216: Autoconnect wifi.radio.connected =False
1636767669679: Autoconnect wifi.radio.connected =False
1641768615723: Autoconnect wifi.radio.connected =False
1646769531250: Autoconnect wifi.radio.connected =False
1651770507812: Not auto (re)connected
1656707275394: Manual connect wifi.radio.connected =True

Code done running.

Including if I force a reload while the radio is turned off.

young cove
open canopy
#

I didn't test the final part. The SocketPool instance. From the documentation, that does NOT need to be recreated. There is only one per radio. Disconnecting and reconnecting should not change that.

radiant fossil
#

Thanks in advance

normal drift
#

FYI -- I have posted a PR with an initial commit of a combined RFM9x/RFM69 library https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM/pull/1 . The main changes are to add asyncio support and to add FSK/OOK support to the RFM9x. With FSK/OOK RFM69 and RFM9x boards can communcate. Any comments/ reviews are welcome. Be gentle 😉

young cove
#

i have used a NanoVNA but only at much lower frequencies

radiant fossil
hollow epoch
#

Hi. My RFM69 project just started giving me this error on startup: TimeoutError: Operation Mode failed to set

#

The error refers to the line where I first create the object: rfm69 = adafruit_rfm69.RFM69(spi, CS, RESET, RADIO_FREQ_MHZ)

#

This is happening after lots and lots of operation where the error hasn't come up

#

So, it's not like it never worked in the first place

normal drift
hollow epoch
#

I haven't yet done anything to make a small test case. We can think about that if this persists

normal drift
normal drift
#

FYI - I connected an rfm69 featherwing to a feather rp2040 and am not able to reproduce your issue. That failure is not at all common, It was reported several years ago and the timeout was added to prevent it just hanging, but no explanation for the issue was determined see thiis PR https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM69/pull/35 .

normal drift
#

Are you seeing this issue on both of your units (marco and polo) or just one of them?

hollow epoch
#

Thanks for mentioning the timeout. I would like to make sure I am not seeing a buffer over/underflow or other hang. I'm letting the units run continuously. They have some extended uptime, but also occaisional hangs. I'd love to hear strategies to lok into long run time hangs. Perhaps some routine monitoring of buffers. I'll have a look at the PR. THANKS so much for looking at this.

#

Should have mentioned. The same cose runs on both units. There is an NVM read on startup that tells the program if it is Marco or Polo. There is often a very slight difference in the code just because I haven't yet copied it over. The write-protect issue and the RFM69 strange thing make me cautious about changing programming one to programming the other. Once I get to developing without those errors, I'm sooper reluctant to rock the boat.

dusty locust
#

anyone here familiar with nrf connect, or other bluetooth debugging tools? I'm trying to get an esp32 to connect to a bluetooth device and read whenit does a thing, but I feel like I'm doing something wrong, as I never see anything come across. I'm open to other tool as well, thats just what I'm familiar with, a tiny bit

slender current
dusty locust
#

I was expecting when I do the action on the device, i see something change in nrf connect, but I can't get it where i see anything change

slender current
#

what device are you trying to interface with?

dusty locust
#

I'm trying to

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#

I can conenct and get battery levels and voltages, I can't find where "shoot an arrow" would come across

#

end result i'll be doing it all in unity, but i've done a bunch of esp32 work, so testing with it for now

slender current
#

my guess is that it is HID

#

like a joystick

#

do you have all of the services and characteristics listed?

dusty locust
#

i'm uploading a video of everything I saw, I'll ping you once thats done

#

I'm not very familiar with proper bluetooth terminoligy, so If I said anything thats wrong talking through it, thats why 😉

dusty locust
#

may have to wait for processing to finish on it for it to be readable

slender current
#

I thin SPP may be the one you want because it is "serial port profile"

#

hit the multi-arrow down icon to have it send you a bunch of stuff instead of just a single read

dusty locust
#

thank you, i'll give it a try again 🙂

umbral oxide
#

The learn guide for RFM devices mention the option of using a 'wire antenna, aka "quarter wave whip antenna"'. Is there any benefit to using a longer antenna... presumably half or full wave length?

young cove
# umbral oxide The learn guide for RFM devices mention the option of using a 'wire antenna, aka...

those are just different impediances, but the radiation pattern (a torus around the wire) would be about the same (maybe a little flattened, I think). And the impedance would be more mismatched, I believe, because the RF circuitry on the board presents is a good match to 1/4-wave.

The way to get more distance is to make the antenna directional, to "beam" the emission instead of the omnidirectional pattern that a simple wire antenna presents

umbral oxide
#

Thanks, Dan. I'll experiment with a 1/4-wave in the target environment.

young cove
umbral oxide
#

Thanks. I'm hoping to avoid needing a directional antenna. The distance isn't that far, but the transmitter site is challenging... inside rock, but hopefully I can protrude the antenna.

young cove
#

they do NOT have the same pattern, as noted above

#

you can run a coax line to the actual antenna

#

if you have to penetrate the rock or whatever

umbral oxide
#

I'm not too worried about the pattern, the receiver isn't that far away (almost wifi distance). It's just a matter of visually minimizing the antenna (the "customer" won't want anything obtrusive), and getting it to the exterior of the rock, or maybe a radio-transparent panel in the rock..

#

I had 900MHZ receiver set up in my basement for a while a couple of years ago, and it seemed to pick up distant packets despite the concrete foundation.

#

Once I test a few options, it will be much clearer what needs to be done.

primal warren
#

I used a 900MHz RFM module with a simple wire antenna (the short orange wire in the picture) and it easily got decent range (~100m) in an electrically noisy environment. Hiding an antenna like that isn't hard (you can make it out of very thin wire and it will still work fine).

fin-programming.jpg
vale star
#

Any radio that can be converted into walkie talkies with about 500ft range? Don't want fcc on my behind

worldly maple
remote pond
vale star
#

finding the nerf ones are hard as spirit's radio uses two AA's if I have to mod the battery compartment to accept 9v then fine...then buck that down to around 3v this all has to be stuff into the hollow replicas props they made from the films

wraith panther
#

For a project Im designing, I need a RF transceiver that will talk to one base station. I'll only have a few sensors (3) along with the master station that will show data. Ideally, Id like a wake on radio function as well. I figure that everything should be transceiver based, so if I press a button I can update the reading if I want to. Originally I was going to use inexpensive 433Mhz modules, but what happens if two modules talk at the same time? Data ends up being lost.

Is the nrf24l01 still the best choice for this? It looks like I can get it for around 50 cents. But, the downside is the nrf's dont have wake on radio. It looks like modules like the RFM69 and RFM98s have wake on radio functions.

Price is somewhat of a factor, and I dont want to spend more than $2-3 on each.

Transmission distance is short, so maybe 50ft max (outside of a house to inside). Does anyone have any suggestions? It will be interfaced to a microcontroller. I dont use arduino, so I will have to read the datasheet a lot!

umbral oxide
#

Has anyone seen a situation where a LoRa receiver (in my case, a 900MHz FeatherWing driven with CircuitPython) gets into a state where it continually receives small weak packets? A reset will fix it.

Only about once an hour do I typically see packets that aren't mine, but the receiver somehow got in a state where it was scrolling packets of a few bytes with signal strength like -157dB. At first I thought it was because I had taken it to another location and someone was spamming the airwaves, but since a reset fixed it, I assume it was a bad receiver state.

normal drift
umbral oxide
#

Thanks jerryn. I see the same thing. This was odd... short weak packets on blast, one per second or more, and it continued when I moved back to the original location (several miles away) ...until I reset the board.

umbral oxide
#

With a 2-node LoRa system, I'm using small duck antennas. I think I should try to orient them in the same direction (e.g., both pointing up). As long as there is rough line-of-sight from one to the other, would it matter if there was metal behind one of the antennas... like mounting the radio etc. on one of these: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5774

primal warren
#

In general, metal behind an antenna will act as a reflector and increase the gain in the other direction, but if the spacing is a suboptimal number of wavelengths, this advantage can become a disadvantage

umbral oxide
#

how do I determine good distance to metal vs. bad distance to metal?

#

learn guide says 915 MHz "quarter-wave" antenna is 3 inches (wavelength 32.7642 cm)

#

the duck antenna is about 1.5", don't know if there's some internal curl or if it's a 1/8

primal warren
#

While intuitively, it would seem a half wave back would be right, the wave reverses on a reflector, so a quarter wave is about best (or n + ¼λ where n is an integer)

umbral oxide
#

ah, cool, thanks

limber vigil
#

I've got this countdown clock display based on the MatrixPortal S3. I'd love to set up a crude configuration control via the Adafruit Bluetooth LE app. Are there any examples of creating a custom service & custom characteristics in CircuitPython?

young cove
#

you don't need to create a custom service: you can use the Nordic UART Service and a library we have that uses a simple serial protocol

limber vigil
#

I was really hoping to use a custom service. I need to set a handful of integers and I’d rather not create yet another protocol over a serial stream to do this. But looking more closely at the Bluefruit app docs, I guess enumerating and writing values to custom characteristics is not something it can do?

In any case, I can write a custom app. But I’d still prefer to create an actual custom service, rather than go over uart. Is that even possible in circuitpython?

young cove
# limber vigil I was really hoping to use a custom service. I need to set a handful of integers...

The Bluefruit Connect app supports the protocol that's built on top of the serial service, not arbitrary services.

Yes, it's possible to define your own services, and there's a library API for doing that in https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_BLE/. The serial service is written using that library.That part of the library is not as well documented as we'd like, unfortunately. You can see various service definitions in https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_BLE/tree/main/adafruit_ble/services. Another set of examples is in https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_BLE_Adafruit, which is set of related services available via the Bluefruit Playground (not Bluefruit Connect) app: https://learn.adafruit.com/bluefruit-playground-app

limber vigil
#

Also, is it possible to use BLE with asyncio?

young cove
#

the BLE impl predates asyncio by several years

limber vigil
#

I'm not yet sure how CP code responds to writes to characteristics, but the rest of my code is set up as asyncio tasks

#

Yeah I had hoped someone had added whatever support might be necessary to use it in an asyncio context. Maybe it'll work out okay

young cove
#

it might just work, or you might get some blocking you don't want.

#

certainly we're interested in your experiments

limber vigil
#

Alas this is not a requirement for this client, and I'm so time constrained I probably won't be able to implement it in time for them, so we'll see if the impetus to figure it out remains.

limber vigil
#

The code is commented, should that be something readthedocs picks up?

young cove
#

it's initially unexpanded in the sidebar

limber vigil
#

It doesn't even appear if I hover over it

limber vigil
#

I've managed to create a Service and a Characteristic, but it's not clear how to write to it. I can connect to my device, the service and attribute table show up in the Nordic nRF app, and it knows it can be read & written, but when I write, I don't get a value back. However, I don't know exactly how to query the characteristic from within Python. I tried this:

class CountdownClockService(Service):
    """Countdown Clock Service"""
    
    uuid                    =    VendorUUID("F1B8ED4E-648B-4689-8A0C-4930BC3A2325")
    countdownStart            =    Uint16Characteristic(max_value = 9 * 60 + 59,
                                                     uuid = VendorUUID("955CB941-F229-4AAB-81FB-44349AFB6CA7"),
                                                     properties = Characteristic.WRITE | Characteristic.READ)
    
    def __init__(
        self,
        countdownStart = 10
    ) -> None:
        super().__init__(
            manufacturer = "Latency: Zero, LLC",
            software_revision = "1.0",
            model_number = "CC",
            serial_number = "12345",
            firmware_revision = "1.0",
            hardware_revision = "1.0",
        )


async def BLETask():
    gBLE.stop_advertising()
    while True:
        gBLE.start_advertising(gAdv)
        print("Advertising")
        while not gBLE.connected:
            await asyncio.sleep(0.100)
            pass
        
        print("Stopping Advertising")
        gBLE.stop_advertising()
        while gBLE.connected:
            print("BLE connected")
            cs = gService.countdownStart
            if cs is not None:
                print(f"countdown start is { cs }")
            
            await asyncio.sleep(0.500)
#

But I just get back 0

young cove
limber vigil
#

gBLE = BLERadio()
gBLE.name = "Countdown Clock BLE"
gService = CountdownClockService()
gAdv = ProvideServicesAdvertisement(gService)
gAdv.short_name = "ClockSvc"

young cove
#

I don't think the async is necessarily a problem, but to debug things, I would suggest trying a simpler example without it. Also you could run a client on another board or with Blinka bleio on a host computer

#

i have tested the UART examples on ESP32-S3

limber vigil
#

Unfortunately, all the examples show how to send data to the central, not how to receive data from it

#

with the exception of the uart code, which does read from a characteristic, but that's buried underneat the nordic stream abstraction

#

The JSON example seems to have the same limitation: it reads a sensor on the device, and sets the value in the Characteristic, so that the Central can read it. I want to go the other way

young cove
#

i can try this on two ESP32-S3 boards.

limber vigil
#

I'm simplifying the code, stand by

young cove
#

do you have more than one board?

limber vigil
#

I do, but I'm not sure what you meant with the bleio suggestion, and that seems to introduce a lot more complexity

young cove
limber vigil
#

Is that better than just using the nRF app?

young cove
#

well, it means you can test the central with CircuitPython code on a host computer.

#

and you can write programmatic tests

#

it can only act as a central, because bleak only provides central (because most host computers only do central)

limber vigil
#

Yeah that's fine. Lemme see if I can at least get it to find my device

young cove
#

meanwhile I'll work on testing

#

you didn't already write a CIrcuitPython central that does writes, correct?

limber vigil
#

No, I've just been using nRF

#

nRF Connect

limber vigil
#

This is what I wrote. It worked until I tried to get the service for the peripheral, at which point I get this error. I'm not well-versed in Python so I'm not sure what I'm missing:

https://gist.github.com/JetForMe/6b7a646ba1ab987b23e615756ef4a23f

% python -m ble.py
Scanning...
Found device: Countdown Clock BLE
Connected
No device info
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<frozen runpy>", line 189, in _run_module_as_main
  File "<frozen runpy>", line 112, in _get_module_details
  File "/Users/rmann/Projects/Personal/CPBLE/ble.py", line 61, in <module>
    service = gConnection[CountdownClockService]
              ~~~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  File "/Users/rmann/Projects/Personal/CPBLE/.venv/lib/python3.12/site-packages/adafruit_ble/__init__.py", line 108, in __getitem__
    constructed_service = key(service=remote_service)
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
TypeError: CountdownClockService.__init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'service'
young cove
limber vigil
#

Thanks for looking at this!

#

I'm gonna step outside and cut some more lumber for the boxes for these clocks

young cove
young cove
#

I tried adding Characteristic.WRITE_NO_RESPONSE and Characteristic.NOTIFY to the charac def on both sides, but that did not speed things up (just a guess)

#

I will probably take a break now

# 
decrementing countdownStart if > 0
countdown start is 199
BLE connected
decrementing countdownStart if > 0
countdown start is 198
BLE connected
decrementing countdownStart if > 0
countdown start is 203
BLE connected

service.countdownStart=195
adding 5 to countdownStart
service.countdownStart=199
adding 5 to countdownStart
service.countdownStart=203
adding 5 to countdownStart
#

sample output ^^

limber vigil
#

Hmm. I still don't get it to write. That is, my device always reads 0 from the Characteristic

#

I'm running the Central code on my Mac. I can scan for it and connect, but writing does nothing. I even tried your code verbatim.

young cove
wicked needle
#

I'm looking to upgrade the remote to my autotracking tripod. The current one uses bluetooth and acts as a gamepad. For the next iteration - I'd like to use an esp32-s3 tft so I can send a low resolution snapshot from the tripod and use it for adjusting settings. The tripod currently has a 1080p camera monitor attached but I eventually would like the remote to allow me to run the unit headless.

The 3 things I'd ideally like are:

  1. Be able to request an image that I can display on the s3's tft
  2. Be able to send commands to the tripod from the s3
  3. ideally, hassle free connection.

Networking and bluetooth is something I have no experience in so I'm hoping someone has some suggestions about what approaches I should start with. The tripod is all coded in C++ on a raspberry pi with an AI camera and I'm comfortable using whatever language and api on the esp32 makes sense.

umbral oxide
#

Using LoRa, which typically has a 50 ohm antenna. But I may need an adapter or adapter cable, and those are also typically spec'd at 50 ohm. I would assume these are additive impedances in serial. Does this create a problem for a radio board designed for 50 ohm?

young cove
#

if the cable had nothing connected to it at the antenna end, it would not present a 50 ohm load

umbral oxide
#

ah, ok, that rings some ancient bells... thanks

limber vigil
# young cove Do you have another ESP32-S3 you can try it on, or only one?

It does seem to work when I go from one S3 to another, but not from macOS to an S3 peripheral (the writes are ignored). It also seems to ignore writes from the Nordic nRF Connect, but the app is able to read the current value. Another note: writes are very slow (as you indicated) from a Central device to the Peripheral, but they do not seem to be slow from macOS or nRF Connect.

wicked needle
#

Ok, I made some progress. Using a TCP server and just serving jpegs I can get between 15 and 40 fps depending on the resolution and settings. It kind of gets expensive to draw on top of it while also updating the lcd so I might offload the UI to the server

limber vigil
young cove
limber vigil
young cove
wicked needle
#

Ok. I got this working pretty well. Had to reflash the pi with an updated OS and update the project on it to get it working as a local wifi server but I'm getting 24ish fps to the esp32 while the pi is doing object tracking and controlling the pan tilt with pretty low latency.

limber vigil
#

I feel like there’s a bug in something somewhere, but I don't know exactly where. Given how much use Apple's BLE stack has, I doubt it's there.

young cove
limber vigil
open canopy
#

I think the point was that there is often a set_property_name() method, and a get_property_name() method, instead of the bidirectional property_name "property". Or the property_name is setup read only, and a separate set method is still needed.

young cove
# limber vigil Really? This is a parameter on the device that gets set to a value. Surely a cen...

Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought you were using this as a communications channel to exchange data. If it's just a setting, which is usually in one direction or another, then one characteristic makes sense. Your sample program was making a countdown timer, which changes in value periodically. What is the actual use case here? Is there any issue of a race between setting and using or setting and reading?

limber vigil
wicked needle
#

Got commands sending to the tripod - now I can modify all the settings from the remote and go fully headless. It boots up, starts the tripod program. The remote will connect when its ready and start receiving the video stream/sending commands back. To shut it down you press a sequence of keys that are unlikely to happen by accident.

young cove
misty prawn
#

Just checking here to be sure, is there support in Circuit Python for Bluetooth or BLE on the Pi Pico W dev board? I'm not finding much support past basic examples for Bluetooth for the Pico W in either MicroPython or C. It appears more effort is focused on the ES32 line of chips in regards to Bluetooth.

young cove
#

the non-yet-existent Pico 2 W would be better

misty prawn
#

@young cove Ok, thank you. I was also looking at the nRF52840. I was looking at Chris Young's HID guide (https://learn.adafruit.com/mouse-and-keyboard-control-using-tinyusb-and-ble/mouse-and-keyboard-combined-example). Also John Park's guide (https://learn.adafruit.com/ble-hid-keyboard-buttons-with-circuitpython) Neither guide mentions battery life. Would I be able to use an nRF52840 board for a long period of time (a school day) without having to charge it? I'm in the planning stage of a bluetooth AT switch.

#

I also had a jalopy idea of using a Pi Pico running HID-Remapper with a BLE mosue plugged into it and remapped to different key presses. Then taking the circuit board from the BLE mouse and changing the buttons to 3.5mm jacks and making a case for it. BUT that seemed like a crazy idea.

young cove
#

I don't think battery life is going to be a big issue. The nRF boards are fairly low power (low 10's of mA), so a reasonable sized battery would last quite a while.

#

what is the setup that it needs to be BLE?

misty prawn
#

Ok. Thanks. Yeah, I've looked that code over many times. I just finished putting together a wired HID AT switch using the TRRS Trinkey. I have one suggestion for CP, can you make a (insert code term here) that makes the device act as either a mouse or a keyboard in the same code. I did a "working" bit of code here but it's not great. https://github.com/MGlaab/CP_Access_Key-Mouse/blob/master/TRRS Trinkey two switch.py The teachers I'm working with usually don't want to mess with code and need the device to act as a mouse and also then sometimes a keyboard.

#

The Bluetooth part came after the teachers started using the wired version and needed to start buying dongles, and adapters.

young cove
#

I have one suggestion for CP, can you make a (insert code term here) that makes the device act as either a mouse or a keyboard in the same code.
CircuitPython alerady does both inherently, but do you mean there's some example that's only one or the other?

misty prawn
#

I know it can act as either a keyboard or a mouse with this line : keyboard = Keyboard(usb_hid.devices) or mouse = Mouse(usb_hid.devices). But then once it is one thing then to make it another thing I have to re-declare it. Does that make sense? So, in my case one button it's a keyboard and then another button it's a mouse click. So I have to put that line in after the button is pressed before each event(SPACE, CLICK). Most examples I see are either a mouse or a keyboard. Maybe, the way I'm doing it is just the most efficient way?

young cove
#

you can do this:

keyboard = Keyboard(usb_hid.devices)
mouse = Mouse(usb_hid.devices)

and use both afterwards. They are not mutually exclusive. The argument is just to help it find the proper USB HID deice

#

you don't need to switch back and forth

# 
while True:
    event=keys.events.get()
    if event:
        if event.pressed:
            if event.key_number == 1:
                keyboard.send(Keycode.A)
            if event.key_number == 0:
                mouse.press(Mouse.LEFT_BUTTON)
        else:
            pass
misty prawn
#

I didn’t know that. I guess I didn’t try that. Your example would have saved me time. Thanks. That should be added to the documentation. I hadn’t found an example stating that so I assumed you had to turn it into one thing then turn it into another thing. Thanks!

young cove
#

the point of the usb_hid.devices argument is that it's a list of all the available devices. When you call, say, Mouse(usb_hid.devices), it looks on the list for the first device that claims to be a mouse, and connects that to the Mouse() object you created

#

is there a particular guide that makes it sound like they are mutually exclusive? I will fix that one

misty prawn
#

I’ll look at the guides to see. It might just be me. I’d probably change the TRRS Trinkey guide CP example from AtMakers to include code making it both a keyboard and mouse, because that is where I would start if I was making an AT switch device. Most of the other guides on CP HID, the reader/customer probably wouldn’t be making it both in the same code.

young cove
misty prawn
#

@young cove I see the hints: "The example is sending keyboard presses, but you can also send mouse operations, or do both." Maybe you could show me how to add a second example in the Circuit Python AT Switch Example section explicitly using two switches one acting as a keyboard SPACE and the second acting as a LEFT CLICK. I'd be interested to know if Bill Binko @gritty compass knew a device could be both at once? I think he could mention it to his community on one of his live streams.

young cove
#

well... maybe the example is better as it is. But I can add an addendum.

misty prawn
#

@young cove Thanks. Just embarrassed by my blindspot.

young cove
#

i can understand that it ws just a misinterpretation

dense tulip
#

Do y'all have any recommendations on how I could build a fm transmitter for a walkie talkie

#

1 km range

primal warren
#

For that kind of range, you'll probably need a license of some sort. Does it have to be FM?

dense tulip
grizzled socket
#

Hi, I'm using a Adafruit Feather RP2040 RFM95 with an Adafruit Power Relay FeatherWing powered by a lipo to switch on/off an external lamp (I can switch it on /off by sending a lora packet from another lora-feather, works fine). Is it possible to save lipo power by using a deep sleep option and to wake it up by sending a lora packet to it from another lora-feather?

#

I'm using circuitpython!

umbral oxide
#

the LoRa radio has to be operating to receive the packet, 30mA

robust radish
#

is there support for reading ook on the rfm69?

primal warren
normal drift
normal drift
#

see line 50 of the rfm_simpletest.py example for how to enable OOK

robust radish
#

Thank you I’ll test in the coming days

normal drift
placid dawn
#

Can anyone recommend a good library to interface an esp32 to a cc1101? I want to learn to receive and transmit NEC codes with this module. Thank you.

primal warren
placid dawn
primal warren
#

Ah, hadn't come across that before, but I remember a Holtek chip that worked similarly

#

Using a CC1101 that way might be tricky from a timing standpoint as I think there's a whole protocol to talk to it. The usual approach for 433MHz ASK is inexpensive SAW based modules with a data-in input like in this writeup https://steemit.com/steemstem/@proteus-h/how-a-dirt-cheap-433-mhz-radio-transmitter-for-arduino-works

Steemit
How a dirt cheap 433 MHz radio transmitter for Arduino works — Stee...

I picked up a 433 MHz radio transmitter/receiver pair for less than a dollar awhile back and have finally gotten… by proteus-h

#

Note: I've used these modules, they do work (laws about use of them vary in different parts of the world), but I've had to separate the transmitter from the control circuitry, as the emitted RF can confuse digital electronics.

placid dawn
primal warren
#

It may well be doable (NEC protocol isn't that fast), but I'm not aware of any libraries for doing so

placid dawn
#

Thank you kindly. That is what I was interested in finding out.

primal warren
#

I'm well aware of the desire to use circuitry I already have on-board, but sometimes it's a lot of trouble

median latch
#

A question around antenna impedance matching, for my curiosity. In principle, if an antenna presents a theoretically pure resistive impedance at (say) 3000 ohms - it seems like one could use either a L network at a given frequency to match it to a 50 ohm driver, or a transformer. Is the main reason to use a transformer that it's more wide-band than a T network, and so can be used on more than one frequency?

primal warren
#

You've got it: a T (or L) or other tuned network only matches impedance for a small range of frequencies, whereas a transformer can match a wide range of frequencies.

median latch
vast veldt
hot skiff
#

This library should work just fine with QT Py ESP32-S2 🤔 First I would make sure you're using the latest Espressif board package, and then I'd check to make sure you're using the latest version of the RadioHead library.

vast veldt
hot skiff
#

I don't think the arduino package is official and it probably hasn't been updated in awhile

vast veldt
#

Oh dip! Alright, I'll give that a whirl!

#

Hm. I tried to Sketch -> Include Library -> Add .ZIP Library but I geet an error stating that "A library named RadioHead already exists".

#

Should I just nuke the RadioHead directory in Documents\Arduino\libraries, and then just re-add via the add ZIP function?

hot skiff
#

Yep lol that's exactly what I was about to suggest

#

just unzip the radiohead zip into your "arduino/libraries" folder

vast veldt
#

Ok, done with that. Recompiling. Let's see if we get anywhere!

#

Compile failed again, but it occured to me that the example code I was using was still from the previous version of the RH library. So I opened a fresh copy of the example, changed the frequency and serial baud rate, and am trying again..

#

(And, it failed "different"; no complaints about timers.. This time it was something to do with SPI. That's part of why I decided the fresh example might have a change..)

#

And we've got a clean compile! Sweet!! Thank you so very much for the help!

hot skiff
#

Heck yes! Happy to hear it 😄

vast veldt
#

Me too. That one was baffling me! 😄 I'm no Arudino expert, but I've been around the ecosystem for a good while, and know that usually the stuff in Examples "just works"!

hot skiff
#

Yeah I'm not exactly sure why the arduino package isn't up to date but I did remember that I've had to manually install it before to get the latest versions

vast veldt
#

It's a tip worth remembering!

woeful bear
#

I'm not sure where to trouble shoot next. I have a Pi running Mosquito, I can pub/sub messages locally. I have a Wiznet W5500-evb-pico running circuitpython.

When I run this code

import time
import board
import digitalio
import simpleio
import busio
import adafruit_ntp
import rtc
import adafruit_connection_manager
import adafruit_requests
import adafruit_minimqtt.adafruit_minimqtt as MQTT
from adafruit_wiznet5k.adafruit_wiznet5k import WIZNET5K

#setup SPI for W5500
cs = digitalio.DigitalInOut(board.GP17)
spi_bus = busio.SPI(board.GP18, MOSI=board.GP19, MISO=board.GP16)
eth = WIZNET5K(spi_bus, cs)

#start up ethernet and update RTC
pool = adafruit_connection_manager.get_radio_socketpool(eth)
ssl_context = adafruit_connection_manager.get_radio_ssl_context(eth)

mqtt_client = MQTT.MQTT(
    broker="10.11.169.158",
    is_ssl=False,
    socket_pool=pool,
    ssl_context=None,
    port = 1883,
    keep_alive = 60,

)

# Connect the client to the MQTT broker.
print("Connecting to broker...")
mqtt_client.connect()

I get this error:

Connecting to broker...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "adafruit_minimqtt/adafruit_minimqtt.py", line 428, in connect
  File "adafruit_minimqtt/adafruit_minimqtt.py", line 500, in _connect
  File "adafruit_connection_manager.py", line 337, in get_socket
  File "adafruit_connection_manager.py", line 249, in _get_connected_socket
  File "adafruit_wiznet5k/adafruit_wiznet5k_socketpool.py", line 289, in wrapper
  File "adafruit_wiznet5k/adafruit_wiznet5k_socketpool.py", line 453, in connect
  File "adafruit_wiznet5k/adafruit_wiznet5k.py", line 591, in socket_connect
ConnectionError: Failed to establish connection.

The above exception was the direct cause of the following exception:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "code.py", line 43, in <module>
  File "adafruit_minimqtt/adafruit_minimqtt.py", line 460, in connect
MMQTTException: ('Repeated connect failures', None)
umbral oxide
#

@woeful bear I think port 1883 will be SSL, so in the init, try ssl_context=ssl_context

#

oh, n/m, got that switched (you don't need ssl_context = earlier since it isn't used)

#

can you connect to the MQTT server from other devices? can you ping that address? is the IP of the W5500 on the same subnet?

woeful bear
woeful bear
#

Does anyone have a good way for a micro to call inserts on a mySQL database?

young cove
#

or do you want a local database?

woeful bear
young cove
woeful bear
median latch
#

question around rf power calculations from peak-to-peak voltage measurements, just for my learning:

At the output of a radio that's normally connected to a coax (i.e. "unbalanced") the voltage between the terminals goes from 0 to some max correct? e.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=graph+sin(x)^2

median latch
#

(answering my own question) I was wrong about this - the voltage at the driving terminal still goes above and below "ground" - just a standard sine wave with no offset. (I had some separate questions about calculating average power that weren't relevant; as I was starting from a faulty assumption about the voltage curve)

rose mountain
#

Hi @normal drift ,
I have been using adafruit_rfm9x on my Raspberry Pi for the past 6 months, and I’ve noticed that sometimes, randomly, my TTGO devices receive packets with incorrect messages. The only way I’ve found to resolve this issue is by restarting the Python script on my Raspberry Pi. Restarting the TTGO, which should reset everything, doesn’t help; the devices still receive incorrect packets.

I haven’t been able to reproduce the issue consistently, it seems to happen randomly.

Have you ever heard of this?
Thanks!

primal warren
#

It could be you're picking up something from another transmitter. Or just noise.

umbral oxide
#

@rose mountain are you using node addressing and CRC checking?

rose mountain
rose mountain
normal drift
normal drift
rose mountain
#

Is there a way to restart rfm9x instance on my rpi ?

normal drift
#

Nevermind, that will not re-initialze everything properly....

surreal vapor
#

Oh what a perfect channel!

I am building a simple telemetry module and I decided to use two HC-12s because I had them already. The goal is to transmit time series data like temperature/speed/gps and so forth. I am just formatting the data into a big string then sending it and using the '\n' char as the 'end ' of the string. But, every once in a while a value is not available from one of the sensors or there's some data corruption and then the current and usually the following data packet get thrown off as a result.

I do not know if there's a smarter way to do this than just sending a byte string with new line char - does anyone have any resources I could read on basics of data transmission?

umbral oxide
#

@surreal vapor If you have two-way communication, you could implement acknowledgements, retries, etc. If one-way, you could transmit each packet more than once (if the frequency of packets permits), add a CRC (f there isn't one already) or even some encoding with redundancy in the data to make it more robust against single errors. A multi-byte line ending might help with corruption of the \n.

vestal spruce
#

Forward Error Correction can be used when sending data and takes a couple bits to correct a byte. But, usually that is implemented to correct noise that is continuous, not errors that span 2 packets.

#

So, I don't really suggest that unless you just love to write fun things (I do).

#

The HC-12 looks like fun. I assume you simply transmit outbound from your GPS to save battery.

vestal spruce
#

def encode_hamming(data):
"""Encodes a 4-bit data block using Hamming(7,4) code."""
p1 = (data[0] + data[1] + data[3]) % 2
p2 = (data[0] + data[2] + data[3]) % 2
p3 = (data[1] + data[2] + data[3]) % 2
return [p1, p2, data[0], p3, data[1], data[2], data[3]]
def decode_hamming(encoded_data):
"""Decodes a 7-bit Hamming(7,4) codeword."""
p1 = (encoded_data[0] + encoded_data[2] + encoded_data[4] + encoded_data[6]) % 2
p2 = (encoded_data[1] + encoded_data[2] + encoded_data[5] + encoded_data[6]) % 2
p3 = (encoded_data[3] + encoded_data[4] + encoded_data[5] + encoded_data[6]) % 2
error_pos = p1 * 1 + p2 * 2 + p3 * 4
if error_pos != 0:
encoded_data[error_pos - 1] = 1 - encoded_data[error_pos - 1]
return [encoded_data[2], encoded_data[4], encoded_data[5], encoded_data[6]]
def ascii_to_binary(text):
"""Converts ASCII text to binary."""
return [int(bit) for char in text for bit in format(ord(char), '08b')]
def binary_to_ascii(binary):
"""Converts binary back to ASCII text."""
return ''.join([chr(int(''.join(map(str, binary[i:i+8])), 2)) for i in range(0, len(binary), 8)])

Example usage

text = "Hello"
binary_data = ascii_to_binary(text)
encoded_data = []
for i in range(0, len(binary_data), 4):
encoded_data.extend(encode_hamming(binary_data[i:i+4]))

Introduce an error (flip a bit)

encoded_data[10] = 1 - encoded_data[10]
decoded_data = []
for i in range(0, len(encoded_data), 7):
decoded_data.extend(decode_hamming(encoded_data[i:i+7]))
decoded_text = binary_to_ascii(decoded_data)
print("Original text:", text)
print("Decoded text:", decoded_text)
#this runs ok, but the extra transmitted bits will cost power. I assume it uses the most power in your client.

vestal spruce
#

But it also asks to keep packets size under 20 bytes.

worn bridge
surreal vapor
#

This was super helpful, thanks!

empty wolf
#

Has anyone been able to connect a Raspberry Pi Pico W to wifi? I'm using the same basic commands I've used on several ESP32 chips in Circuit Python and it won't connect, but a scan shows that it sees the wifi networks in my home. When I try to run wifi.radio.connect(ssid, password) on the RPi Pico W it returns "Unknown failure 1". I'm wondering if it is a Circuit Python version problem; if you've successfully connected to wifi let me know what version you're using. Any other suggestions welcomed!

#

I've tried 9.2 and 9.0.5 and get the same response from the Pico W.

stark barn
#

Is there any chance I'll be able to get a [RP2040Feather+RFM69FeatherWing] using CircuitPython to talk to a previously (years ago) built [miniWireless+RFM69 radio] that used the LowPowerLabs arduino library? I'm getting the feeling that there's no hope because my old .cpp code for the miniWireless rig has settings like NODEID, NETWORKID, PROMISCUOUS_MODE... but I don't see anything like that in the CircuitPython_RFM69 library. It's almost like there are some extra layers on this python side and maybe some different radio setups between that LowerPowerLabs interface and the CircuitPython_RFM69 interace. They might not be speaking the same language. If there's a chance can someone point me to an example? Otherwise, I suppose I'll have to replace the old miniWireless rig. And in that case a dumb question... Would the RP2040_with_RFM69_on_one_feather (product ID: 5712) be compatible with the first rig I mention above? I'd assume so since they'd both use the same CircuitPython_RFM69 library.

umbral oxide
#

@empty wolf Pico W has been out for some time, and many folks have been using it successfully. Unfortunately, the error number you are getting is very unhelpful: WIFI_REASON_UNSPECIFIED. I assume you've triple-checked all the usual suspects like correct ssid, correct password, proximity to the Access Point. It's not inconceivable it's a bad board - do you have another Pico W to compare? Do you still have an ESP32-family board you can load identical code or statements to compare? It's possible something is happening at the AP causing the AP to reject the connection.

empty wolf
primal warren
normal drift
# stark barn Is there any chance I'll be able to get a [RP2040Feather+RFM69FeatherWing] using...

The Adafruit CircuitPython_RFM library supports both the RFM69 and RFM9x with the ability to turn off the default RadioHead header. You may then be able to create packets compatible packets compatible with the LowPower Labs library. see https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM

GitHub
GitHub - adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM: RFM69 and RFM9x libra...

RFM69 and RFM9x library, with asyncio support. Contribute to adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM development by creating an account on GitHub.

stark barn
stark barn
# normal drift The Adafruit CircuitPython_RFM library supports both the RFM69 and RFM9x with t...

What is the difference between https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM and https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM69

GitHub
GitHub - adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM: RFM69 and RFM9x libra...

RFM69 and RFM9x library, with asyncio support. Contribute to adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
GitHub - adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM69: CircuitPython modul...

CircuitPython module for the RFM69 series of 433/915 mhz packet radios. - adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM69

normal drift
stark barn
normal drift
#

Good luck. I am away from my hardware for a few more days, but I’ll try to get an RFM69 to talk to a low power labs system next week.

stark barn
surreal vapor
#

I am trying to pick a GPS radio module for my project. It is between these two: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5186 or https://www.adafruit.com/product/4415
I like the mini one because it's small and has a RTC built into it which is super cool. However, would the big one work better? Is bigger better? They appear to have the same sensitivity - so I assume that's like the strength of the antenna. But do they perform the same?

Ultimate GPS Module PA1616D - 99 channel w/10 Hz updates

For those who want to integrate our awesome Ultimate GPS module into their own projects, we now have the raw sub-module available. Don't be fooled by its small size, this is a very ...

Adafruit Mini GPS PA1010D - UART and I2C - STEMMA QT

This miniature GPS breakout is only 1" x 1" (~ 25mm x 25mm) but houses a complete GPS/GNSS solution with both I2C and UART interfaces. There's even an antenna on top, so ...

primal warren
#

They both use a PA chip set and an active patch antenna, so they're probably at least similar.

surreal vapor
#

I assume that they might be similar, I'm just not sure how I could find any information on 'how' similar

primal warren
#

The module documentation should be linked from the learn page and give details like sensitivity, number of satellites, etc.

surreal vapor
#

Yes, the numbers are the same for sensativity and number of satellits! This is why I'm so confused. One is so much bigger than the other - there must be a performance difference.

primal warren
#

That is odd. I would expect a larger patch antenna to be more sensitive, even with amplification.

surreal vapor
#

Yeah, super odd. Both say -165dBm Sensitivity

normal drift
# stark barn Wow. That'd be great. I'll report back here my progress.

Just a brief update. After much struggling, I have been able to configure an RFM69 (RFM69 Bonnet on a Raspberry Pi 5) using the Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM library to receive packets from an RFM69 board (Adafruit_Feather_RP2040_RFM69) using the LowPowerLabs RFM69 library. WooHoo! The default register configuration for the CIrcuitpython_RFM and the LowpowerLabs are very different and I had to make several changes on the CIrcuitPython side to get it to work. (the preamble_length, bitrate, frequency deviation, modulation_shaping, dc_free, sync_word all had to be modified) I still cannot get the LowPowerLabs board to receive a packet from the CircuitPython board, but I wanted to share my minimal success. I'll keep at it and see if I can get it working both ways.

normal drift
#

@stark barn more progress -- I now have packets being received in both directions.... Now I need to better understand the format of the LowPower labs packet to see I I can get the adressing and ACK to work but it is nice to see data flowing both ways. The hardware is happy. Now "it's only software"...

stark barn
# normal drift <@538568664090411020> more progress -- I now have packets being received in both...

Awesome! Thanks for the update. I was only able to scratch the surface and realized the extent of the probable differences in all of those settings. I also compared the LowPowerLabs library I was using in 2019 with his current library and there are some small word length differences. I'll have to deal with that as well - because my preference is to not re-flash my remote nodes. But, I'm still interested in the science project we're on right now. I appreciate the effort you're going to. I'm hoping your work results in an example with comments. If anything, others can use it to understand the details of the radio a little more than is probably necessary for most cases - but, nonetheless interesting to some of us.

Thanks again.

normal drift
# stark barn Awesome! Thanks for the update. I was only able to scratch the surface and rea...

Here is a basic example that is working for me. Both sides send and receive packets. The .ino file is an Arduino sketch using the LowPowerLabs library -- the .py file is for CircuitPython using the Adafruit_CircuitPython_RFM library. This example does not support retries (ACK). I'm still working on that. It does show you the necessary configurations for the CircuitPython library to match those used by LowPowerLabs. I'll keep working on the examples, but take a look and let me know if you have any questions.

📎 lowpowerlabs_basic.ino 📎 rfm69_lowpowerlab_basic.py
stark barn
stark barn
# normal drift Here is a basic example that is working for me. Both sides send and receive pac...

Peeking at my old arduino code it looks to me like the SENDACK and REQACK handshake is done entirely in software. From what I can see the 3rd byte of the actual dataframe (not the sync, preamble, crc, etc) is either 0x00, or REQACK or SENDACK. The ACK response looks like its an empty dataframe except for the first 3 bytes - the third of which is 0x80 (RFM69_CTL_SENDACK). That frame is sent just after receiving a frame whose 3rd byte had 0x40 (RFM69_CTL_REQACK).

It doesn't look to me like there is any special usage of radio registers for ACK handshake.

normal drift
#

The Circuitpython library allows for adding a delay before sending the ACK, but I don’t think the LowPowerLabs does. i have had similar issues with the RadioHead library.

stark barn
normal drift
normal drift
#

oops -- I also see that my example above uses from circuitpython_rfm import rfm69
instead of from adafruit_rfm import rfm69 as it should. That was a holdover from my personal version of the library used for the initial testing.

stark barn
#

My recent adventure using LowPowerLabs with circuitpython was successful. However, my curiosity has led me back to trying it with C++ (Arduino) rather than python because I want to learn how the interrupt driven world works. So, the question. Is anyone aware of an example for LowPowerLabs that actually uses interrupts rather than simply polling? None of the examples I can find actually utilize an interrupt callback like I would expect.

normal drift
stark barn
# normal drift but LowPowerLabs does use interrupts <https://github.com/LowPowerLab/RFM69/blob/...

I see interruptHandler. But, it's only called from receiveDone() which is only called via polling from the running app. So, I don't see how any of the examples have the radio (and it's library) actually interrupting the running app.

It looks to me like I need to write a function that will call receiveDone (instead of calling it from within loop() directly) and set that function as a handler via the radio.setIsrCallback() function. If that sounds wrong please let me know. Otherwise.... here goes...

I'm just surprised that I couldn't find any examples that actually use that setIsrCallback hook.
Thanks for pointing me to RadioLib. That's a whole new adventure

normal drift
little epoch
#

Okay, so I just passed all three ham radio exams in one sitting because ... I'm just Extra I guess?

#

Does anyone have a recommended connector and crimper for homebrew projects, presumably one that's on DigiKey? The answers I've seen are generally a tool that takes the Paladin 1300 style but I'm not sure if there's a right answer for connector brands or not.

young cove
little epoch
young cove
#

type-F is not used much.

#

I have used screw-together-soldered connectors for UHF and BNC.

median latch
# little epoch Yah, the RF connector type is what I'm looking for so SMA or Type-F or whatnot.

Having been down that path recently (needed to make same SMA cables) in hindsight I might have just done what @young cove suggested. The cheaper ones (tools/connectors) don't make particularly reliable crimps, the expensive ones are close to $100 just for the block and tool, and then there's the cost of getting good quality crimp connectors that go along with the right coax type + fiddling with peeling apart the coax cable itself. For me at least, it might have been handy if I was making O(10s) of cables, but for 3-4, it was more trouble than it was worth to DIY this.

#

(also congrats on getting your extra ticket 🎉 it's a fantastic hobby)

little epoch
#

Hmm yeah I looked and realized that the type-F screw-together-soldered connectors are really pricey whereas the BNC ones were far cheaper.

#

I think the problem is that ~gestures at the pile of 3D printers and LED stuff~ I'm far too used to the default answer being "Hey, enjoy the pain and suffering of all of the connectors being only available as crimp connectors"

#

(I figure it was befitting of my master punster role to be Extra by getting an Extra ticket as opposed to settling for something lower. Even if I'm mostly just getting it to do VHF/UHF stuff with the ARES/RACES group and probably make some amateur-radio-oriented 3D printables.)

#

((The real consequence of being Extra is that the local VEC used me being a little bit flustered by just having passed all three to sign me up as a VE. Because it takes a special kind of weirdo to pass all three at the same time, I guess.))

young cove
#

Ladyada also passed all three at the same time.

little epoch
#

Do I know ladyada well enough to accidentally designate her as a special kind of weirdo?

young cove
#

it's perfectly ok to self-identify 🙂 . It's not being weird, it's just being ready.

primal warren
#

I passed my last two at the tail of a long day, I started with dental surgery in the morning, then an emergency preparedness exercise, then took my General and Extra exams that evening.

little epoch
#

I think all of the other electronics stuff made it not especially hard for me. When my spouse gets enough spoons to start studying I'm going to have to be a Supportive Spouse.

young cove
#

In the days when you needed 20 WPM morse, not many people took all of them at once

little epoch
#

OTOH, subtle mission of encouraging people to learn radio electronics for abstract governmental goals succeded? I did not know smith charts or a bunch of other things and now it's going to be stuck in my brain. Even if I diligently studied Smith charts only to have my random set of questions not really go there.

primal warren
#

I remember staring at a few questions wondering "how do I compute a tangent in my head?" then realizing the choices were laid out so you just had to realize if the angle was <45°, the tangent was <1, and if it were >45° the tangent was >1.

young cove
#

i took Tech, and later Advanced. I had to close my eyes while copying the CW so I wouldn't mis-guess and lose the thread. Haven't gone for extra yet because the extra privs are not something I need

primal warren
#

I'll admit I went for Extra because I was already there and liked the idea of a 2x1 call sign

young cove
#

I already have a 2x2, so these days...

little epoch
#

Yeah, like .. had I gotten an EE degree instead of Math/CS I'm sure I would have been trained on the actual theory part? But that's not important what's important is to know what feels wrong and a lot of new college grads totally miss that part and it's probably easier to pass the Extra test if you use feelings instead of trying to calculate things.

#

Like, I had the scrap paper and calculator and was really worried I was about to have my ego write a check my brain couldn't cash as I was wrapping it up.

#

Because I didn't really use either the paper or calculator.

primal warren
#

Bingo. I'm a demon on standardized tests to start with, and the questions are crafted to show a grasp of the concepts more than memorization/calculations (except for FCC rules, band plans, etc.)

little epoch
#

Oh yeah, @young cove I totally support you not getting Extra because being one of the leftover Advanced is a distinction to itself.

#

I haven't taken a standardized test in decades? Also, it was the most I'd used a pencil in months.

primal warren
#

And of course, a working knowledge of electronics made a bunch of the questions fairly straightforward

young cove
#

and I took my exam at an FCC office, maybe one of the last times

primal warren
#

I ended up trekking out to West Virginia because a ham club out there was offering exams at 7PM

little epoch
#

I live in the same town as W6VEC.

little epoch
#

So, hm, I was crimping 3D printer connectors and I've got this vague impression that my iWiss crimper is more or less a clone of the Paladin 1300 design which makes me wonder if I could potentially just get away procuring with a die to die for?

#

I might try that with a PowerPole crimper die instead tho because I feel like I'd probably want to make more PowerPole crimps than coax crimps?

upper halo
#

I have very little radio knowledge. I want to make a radio reciver that can listen to all frequencies between 108 and 137 MHz (airband) which I think is AM. If I could have general guidance on where to look that would be great as in what hardware I would need. This could be done using anything from an Arduino to a Raspberry compute module, whatever will facilitate being able to do this. The idea is for the arduino or whatever to digitally select the radios frequency based on the users input, from what I am aware this is called a software defined radio.

young cove
#

and what country are you in?

#

and what is your budget?

upper halo
# young cove Yes, it is AM. There are plenty of scanner radios that will do this. If you want...

I am in Switzerland, which allows people to listen into airband. The idea is a small box, with an oled, bunch of buttons, rotary encoder, speaker and 3.5 mm headphone jack. all of these components so the user can listen to ground and airspace frequencies. My budget is I would say $60 (usd) per unit. These components have to be in a small enough package to fit within a small box, so mostly SMD. I will be making a custom pcb.

heavy ore
#

somethng like https://www.amazon.co.uk/Topiky-Receiver-Aviation-Sensitivity-118-136MHz-default/dp/B07YCJJ92Y would be the easy route.

Airband Radio Receiver Kit, DIY Airband Aviation Radio Receiver Kit...

Description: This DIY aviation radio receiver kit is dedicated to receiving calls between the aircraft and the tower. With high performance antenna (VHF antenna), calls between various types of aircraft and the tower within 190KM in open space can be received. Specifications: Color: Green Materia...

#

It's not SDR but SDR isn't really what you want to listen to AM

upper halo
young cove
#

that radio has manual tuning. There are also handheld scanner radios that are roughly in that price range. But is the point to have it or to build it?

heavy ore
#

There are lots of schematics around. A lot of them will require winding inductors and stuff.

upper halo
heavy ore
upper halo
young cove
#

you need a real computer (e.g. an RPi to do the decoding from the RTL-SDR). There aren't that many microcontroller-controlled radio projects. The kit listed above could be adapted, but that would require some knowledge.

heavy ore
#

Just avoid any circuits with lots of self wound inductors or variable capacitors that would require you to take apart a vintage radio to get 🙂

primal warren
upper kite
#

hello! happy New year! I have a 433mhz kit (fs1000a receiver transmitter) . Is it there any official library to run it on a waveshare pico like board?

normal drift
upper kite
normal drift
upper kite
slender current
#

@plain grotto I'm getting into meshtastic too

#

You may want to check https://meshmap.net/ for any nodes near you. I have lots in Seattle here but didn't see much in Kalamazoo when I was there for the holidays

MeshMap - Meshtastic Node Map

A nearly live map of Meshtastic nodes seen by the official Meshtastic MQTT server

plain grotto
little epoch
#

Oh yeah I just ordered a board myself.

frail quarry
#

Hello all,
I just noticed that The Things Network doesn't support single channel LoRa devices such as RFM95W to communicate, are there some alternative services which I can use?
Thanks for your input.

normal drift
frail quarry
normal drift
frail quarry
normal drift
#

Not with CircuitPython, that I am aware of but as I noted above there is support via Arduino (and C for RP2040 boards)

frail quarry
#

Perfect, I'll have a look into that. Thank you for the response 🙂

normal drift
#

Good luck! Keep asking if you have questions about the libraries.

frail quarry
# normal drift Good luck! Keep asking if you have questions about the libraries.

Hi, so I have tried the LMIC library but wasn't able to do much there, I shifted to RadioLib. My board isn't in their list of boards so i wrote a custom pinout file of board by copying the file of the closest neighbour. I am not able to figure out how to use it.

I have attached my error and the modified board config. (I am using the LoRaWAN_Starter example from RadioLib.

Setup...
Initialise the radio
Initialise radio failed - ERR_CHIP_NOT_FOUND (-2)

Note: I have updated only the pins so far in the following code.

#if !defined(_RADIOBOARDS_MAINTAINED_ADAFRUIT_FEATHER_RP2040_H)
#define _RADIOBOARDS_MAINTAINED_ADAFRUIT_FEATHER_RP2040_H

// Source:
// Schematic - https://learn.adafruit.com/assets/120813

#define RADIO_BOARDS_NAME "Adafruit Feather RP2040"

#define RADIO_NSS     (7)
#define RADIO_IRQ     (9)
#define RADIO_RST     (8)
#define RADIO_GPIO    (RADIOLIB_NC)

// this board uses custom SPI to interface with the module
#define RADIO_SPI     SPI
#define RADIO_MISO    (20)
#define RADIO_MOSI    (19)
#define RADIO_SCK     (18)

#define RADIO_SPI_INIT          \
RADIO_SPI.setSCK(RADIO_SCK);    \
RADIO_SPI.setTX(RADIO_MOSI);    \
RADIO_SPI.setRX(RADIO_MISO);    \
RADIO_SPI.begin(false);

#endif


#if RADIOLIB_SUPPORT_ENABLED
  #define Radio       SX1276
#endif
young cove
#

nevertheless I am not able to help you with the specific question

frail quarry
normal drift
#

I have to check, that may be for a feather RP2040 with an rfm9x featherwing, not the Feather_RP2040_RFM (all in one)

frail quarry
normal drift
#

You will not be able to use an RFM69 on LorAWAN

frail quarry
normal drift
#

The RFM69 doe not do LoRA

frail quarry
#

I have separate RFM95W as in breakout board, I have connected it via SPI over pins 18,19,20

normal drift
#

ah -- OK, then my example above should be OK.

#

Checking on SPI, byt the "defaults" should be OK.

frail quarry
normal drift
#

Good luck! You may need to change "nss" and "rst" to whatever pins you are using.

frail quarry
#

Sure, will do that

normal drift
#

GPIO20,GPIO19 and GPIO18 are hardwired to the internal RFM69 and not available on the Header.

normal drift
#

Now that I look more cloeley at my example, it is for the Adafruit_Feather_RP2040_RFM (RFM9x version)

frail quarry
#

So sorry for that, I just rechecked...

normal drift
frail quarry
frail quarry
normal drift
# frail quarry Hi, So, to me it seems like that current setup won't work as I can't remap the ...

In the long run, I expect you will find it much simpler to use the Adafruit_feather_RP2040_RFM9x version. Or just use any other microcontroller board with the RFM9x breakout. I see from the "pins_arduino.h" for the Adafruit_Feather_RFM that the SPI pins are set to use 14,15,8 . They are also connected to the the RFM69 module on your board but you can have multiple SPI devices as long as you use different pins for CS, RST, DIO0 and DIO1 (both DIO pins any not be needed, but it wont hurt to connect them) So you "should" be able to use the RFM9X breakout. The SPI pins do not have to be re-mapped. The RFM69 module will be on the SPI bus, but since you are using different pins for CS,RST and DIOx it should stay out of the way. I have the same hardware here and I will try it out. I'm not sure if I can get it done today, but I'll let you know how it goes.

#

@frail quarry I'm also curious if you have a LoRaWAN gateway nearby that you know you can access or do you have your own? You will need access to a gateway to use LoRaWAN.

frail quarry
frail quarry
normal drift
frail quarry
#

Also, that'd be great if you could share your findings with same set-up.

normal drift
#

Do you have any other micro controller boards available?

frail quarry
normal drift
#

You should be able to se the RP2040 with the breakout for LoRaWAN. You can also use the Pi Zero, but I am not aware of an LoRaWan libraries for the Pi. I have just put headers on my RP2040_RFM69 and will be setting up to test it with the breakout. Digging out jumper cables....

normal drift
#

@frail quarry Success!! using the LMIC example I am able to send to TTN via the RFM9x breakout. connected to the R)2040_RFM69 board. Here are the pin configurations ```const lmic_pinmap lmic_pins = {
.nss = 11,
.rxtx = LMIC_UNUSED_PIN,
.rst = 12,
.dio = {10, 9, LMIC_UNUSED_PIN},
.rxtx_rx_active = 0,
.rssi_cal = 8, // LBT cal for the Adafruit Feather M0 LoRa, in dB
.spi_freq = 8000000,
};

frail quarry
normal drift
#

My example is sending data successfully to TTN. There is one odd behavior. It only writes to the serial port for the first transmission, then I am not seeing more output. It is transmitting, but not writing to the serial port. I'm not sure why....

frail quarry
normal drift
#

ah -- moving the RST from pin 12 to pin 6 fixes the serial output -- it looks like pin 12 confilits with the UART0

frail quarry
#

update: It worked! I am not entirely sure why...

normal drift
#

Hooray!!!

frail quarry
#

Thank you @normal drift . I really gave you so much trouble

normal drift
#

No problem -- This was a good learning experience for me as well.

#

I plan to also try using the updated RadioLib library and try the LoRaWAn_Starter example. I probably won't get to that today. Good luck with your projects.

frail quarry
frail quarry
normal drift
frail quarry
normal drift
#

OK -- I have to go offline for a few hours -- I'll look into it later or tomorrow,

frail quarry
#

Sure, Have a nice day ahead

frail quarry
#

how are you setting the Radio Boards?

normal drift
#

Just a sec -- fixing my files

frail quarry
#

sure man! 🙂

normal drift
#

The wiring is the same as I used for the LMIC example (RST on pin 6)

#

output to Arduino serial ```
Setup ...
Initialise the radio
Join ('login') the LoRaWAN Network
Ready!

Sending uplink
Received a downlink
Next uplink in 300 seconds

frail quarry
#

do you change anything in config.h

normal drift
#

oops -- I thought I posted it -- yes SX1276 radio = new Module(11, 10, 6, 9);

frail quarry
#

and it just detects board automatically for you?

#

nevermind, I think I was uncommenting different lines

normal drift
#

IN Arduino I selected the Adafruit_Feather_RP2040_RFM

frail quarry
# 
#define RADIO_BOARD_AUTO
#include <RadioBoards.h>

SX1276 radio = new RadioModule();
normal drift
#

Don't use the AUTO

frail quarry
#

gonna try it rn

normal drift
# 
// this is provided just as a default example
SX1276 radio = new Module(11, 10, 6, 9);

// if you have RadioBoards (https://github.com/radiolib-org/RadioBoards)
// and are using one of the supported boards, you can do the following:
/*
#define RADIO_BOARD_AUTO
#include <RadioBoards.h>

Radio radio = new RadioModule();
*/```
frail quarry
#

It worked, it worked

normal drift
#

Good luck -- I have to go offline for the evening. Hopefully it will work for you ... if not I'll try to help tomorrow. In any case ... it can work!

frail quarry
#

Thank you so much

normal drift
#

Hooray!🎉

#

You're welcome -- Have fun.

frail quarry
#

I feel ashamed

#

dumb mistakes

#

Thank you man, you are the real G

normal drift
#

😊

#

No need to feel badly. It sometimes takes a lot of trial/error. I’ve had much more time to make all the mistakes…glad I could help and I learned a lot from it all.

high jungle
#

Is there any method of putting an antenna on the exterior of https://www.adafruit.com/product/3931, without making any extra holes? From my understanding, if I use a coax cable, the entirety of it needs to be fished through the cable glands, which aren't big enough for most connector types.

primal warren
#

It's possible that a U.FL connector would fit

high jungle
primal warren
#

You might be able to use something like this with some heatshrink to increase the diameter where it passes through the gland https://www.adafruit.com/product/851

SMA to uFL/u.FL/IPX/IPEX RF Adapter Cable

This RF adapter cable is super handy for anyone doing RF work. Often times, small electronics save space by having a pick-and-placeable u.FL connector (also called uFL, IPEX, IPAX, IPX, MHF, ...

high jungle
#

Why does SX1276-based LoRa modules pop-up when I search the keyword "meshtastic" on Adafruit's store? Especially since it says this on their website:

We strongly recommend choosing devices equipped with the newer Semtech SX126x or LR11xx series, as they offer improved performance and better compatibility compared to the SX127x series.
– https://meshtastic.org/docs/hardware/devices/#which-board-should-i-choose

normal drift
high jungle
normal drift
#

If you get something working, please post about it. Good luck!

high jungle
slender current
high jungle
high jungle
slender current
sharp pecan
#

hi radioheadz

#

im working on building a reliable remote control switch for a movie prop, just to say, blink a led

#

Im working through learning about lora because it seems like the signal is resilient as it uses the spectrum around 900 to send the command

#

so I guess what Im asking is, is lora at 915 appropriate to make a rock solid remote control switch?

primal warren
#

LoRa should work well, but it's optimized for long distance. Ordinary RFM69 boards (like https://www.adafruit.com/product/3070) work too. You can use the library to provide useful functionality like guaranteed delivery, encryption, etc.

#

I've used similar boards for exactly this purpose

fin-programming.jpg
sharp pecan
#

cool! I suppose RFM69 is cheaper, is it easier to work with? I am working on grasping RadioHead by AirSpayce

normal drift
# sharp pecan cool! I suppose RFM69 is cheaper, is it easier to work with? I am working on gra...

With the RadioHead library, there is not a lot of difference between "ease of use" between the RFM69 and RFM9x(LoRa). Distance is probably the biggest factor. If you need to transmit more than a few hundred feet, I'd recommend LoRa. Look into the "reliable datagram" mode and node addressing in the RadioHead docs. Without it, you will certainly miss packets. Will your microcontroller be dedicated to this task? Will you be using simple wire antennae? Will the radios have direct "line of sight" between eachother? Feel free to provide more details about your application.

sharp pecan
#

thank you jerryn, I do not need to transmit more than a few hundred feet, maybe 100 max, but I have tons of lora adafruit boards just in stock here at my work so I prefer to use it just because I have so many, unless there are significant downsides. I will have one microcontroller, soley dedicated only to sending the “go” signal. the recieving microcontroller will have to recieve the signel and run 10 addressable rgb leds in a wave pattern. I am looking to use a simple wire whip because the recieving assembly must fit inside the handle of a prop gun. the radios will surely have line of sight.

#

I will look into reliable datagram! new to using rf and more than one board so its quite a learning experience

#

the build is a prop gun that displays a light effect when activated, a glowing ring on the side of the guns handle. Ideally, we would just run a cord down the actors sleeve to a button in the actors hand but clients are clients

#

I know it can be solved easier with any ol 433 non encripted car clicker modual but I want it to be “interference proof” and resistant to false triggers

#

I am also looking to use trinket m0 and the hope rf moduals for the final build

#

sorry to spam up the channel if this is too much and thankful to have a space to write down my thoughts in public. I am working to understand reliable datagram now, datagram is a cool word

high jungle
# sharp pecan thank you jerryn, I do not need to transmit more than a few hundred feet, maybe ...

Edit: The suggestion below is only relevant if you haven't purchased any LoRa boards yet.

If the devices are within WiFi range, for which I'd assume 100 ft would be, then I'd recommend using the Adafruit Mini Sparkle Motion: https://www.adafruit.com/product/6160
This assumes all you want to do is control Neopixel LEDs and/or anything that can connect over Stemma QT.

Mini Sparkle Motion - WLED-friendly ESP32 NeoPixel LED Driver

The Adafruit Sparkle Motion Mini is part of our series of "Sparkle Motion" boards, that are our attempt to make the best small WLED-friendly smart LED driving ...

primal warren
#

If you've got the LoRa boards already, go ahead and use them. They'll work fine, along with the "reliable datagram" mode of the RadioHead library that jerryn pointed out, to ensure the commands are received.

high jungle
surreal vapor
#

Hello Humans in the radio channel! I purcased the RFM95C breakout board and it worked great! I wanted to try to see if I could incorporate this into my project so I followed (to the best of my ability) the circuit diagram to make my own copy of it. This is from Adafruit:

#

And this is my recreation:

#

So, when I wire this up, I keep getting:

RuntimeError: Failed to find rfm9x with expected version -- check wiring .]0;🐍287@adafruit_rfm9x.py RuntimeError | 9.2.1.\ Code done running.

#

Any ideas why?

#

I checked all the individual connections and everything seems good.

#

The only thing I can guess is that I did not connect all the grounds? But it appears that they're connected internally.

small dome
#

Why didn't you get connect the additional GND pins to the GND plane?

#

And what programming language / environment? The Qt Py pinout is... weird for the RP2040. (Weird relative to other boards)

surreal vapor
#
  • I didn't connect the ground pins to the GND plane becasue I thought they were connected internally on the RFM95. I did try to fire it up holding a wire connecting them to ground and go the same result. If you think it might be an issue, I'll solder them together (more reliable than holding a wire to it haha).
#
  • Using Circuit Python and just following this tutorial:
normal drift
#

Post the code you are running . see #welcome message for a guide to posting code here.

#

That error is almost always due to an incorrect pin assignement or a wiring error.

#

Your board appears to have 2 MCUs -- the QTPY RP2040 and a feather Rp2040. You are running this on the QTPY Rp2040?

#

Also, can you provide a link to the RF module datasheet or prouduct information -- what module is it?

#

One more question. the A1 pin on the QTPY does not appear to have much, if any solder , on it. (the A0 does not look like it has much either). If these are not making good contact, that error is what you will get.

surreal vapor
#

My code is just the code from the tutorial with pins updated:

#

The radio is only connected to the Qt Py RP2040. The module is this one (I bought a RFM95 that also did not work so then I desoldered this from the Adafruit breakout in hopes of better sucess).

#

I tested all the connections from the radio to the QT Py with a multimeter. Then, I wrote a script to pull my QT Py pins high for 2 seconds, low for 2 seconds and I see this clearly from the radio (using the multimeter as well) - so I think the connections are ok.

#

I also just soldered a new breakout directly to the PCB and IT WORKED! So I'm pretty lost because maybe my circuit is ok (but it must be missing something that the breakout is doing)

primal warren
surreal vapor
#

Unless I’m misunderstanding you @primal warren

#

Also I verified with multimeter that the RFM95 is connected to DO/A0 on Qt Py

normal drift
#

There is a possibility that if this is an older version of the HopeRF silicon, then it may have a different version - I found this one https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/975/1463993415RFM95_96_97_98W-1858106.pdf that has a version 0x11 (Register 0x42) where all the ones used by Adafruit have had version 0x12. I've never come across this before....There was a similar issue with the RFM69 modules a few years ago and we adapted the library to accept both. That certainly can be done for the RFM95 if that is the issue.

#

You couldtry changing the test to look for the version being 17 to see if that is the problem.

#

It is also not clear what you are doing with the RESET on the RFM95 -- Your code is using D2, but that does not appear to be connected to the RFM5 module.

primal warren
#

It's confusing, it looks like cs_rf is going through the chip to pin 7, which is not connected (hence the "X" symbol). But maybe it's going to pin 0 and that other line is the top of the chip? Hard to tell.

Screenshot_2025-02-14_at_5.17.22_PM.png
surreal vapor
#

I don’t have many pins on the Qt Py. So I tested the breakout with the reset not connected. It worked fine. So I did not connect the reset on my PcB. I did however break it out to a male pin header just in case I needed it. For debugging I’ve plugged it into D1/A1. I’m still not sure if it matters.

surreal vapor
primal warren
#

When the rubber meets the road, the PCB footprint is the important part.

normal drift
# surreal vapor I’ll try this thanks!

You may just want to put in a print statement to see what value is bing returned. If it is 0x00 or 0xff then I think you still have a connection issue - if it is 0x11 or 0x13 or some thing close, then it is likely just a newer or olde version that will work.

surreal vapor
#

Gentlemen, I have figured it out..

#

Or technically @small dome did. The grounds not being connected was the issue. I wired them all together and the RFM95C fired right up and talked with the other breakout I have.

#

I'm not sure why -perhaps one of you guys do? They seems connected internally, but it must be doing something - or configuring the chip to do something.

#

But this was a massive win. Thank you to @small dome @normal drift @primal warren for all of your contributions and time. 🙂

Also, note the Reset pin does not need to be connected for the radio SMD to function.

normal drift
#

Congratulations! Glad it is working. The radio will "reset" on powerup. I suspect the RST line is only needed if you want to be able to force a full reset at any time. If I recall correctly, it was good practice that a reset be issued as part of the initialization sequence but it appears not be necessary.

#

7.2. Reset of the Chip A power-on reset of the RFM95W/96W/98W is triggered at power up. Additionally, a manual reset can be issued by controlling pin 6.

#

7.2.2. Manual Reset A manual reset of the RFM95W/96W/98W is possible even for applications in which VDD cannot be physically disconnected. Pin 7 should be pulled low for a hundred microseconds, and then released. The user should then wait for 5 ms before using the chip.

#

So -- at Power up of the board, the RESET is really not needed.

#

I'm relieved it was not a "new" version number ...

surreal vapor
#

🙂

#

Still, I'd want to know why all the grounds need to be connected. But I'm just so happy it works 🙂

normal drift
#

I'll leave that for the others to comment on -- I'm just a "software guy" 😉

surreal vapor
#

Haha! Yes, and I'm relieved I can go back to Solidworks land. This will make you guys sad to hear, but electronics and code just exist to make your mechanical designs do cool stuff.

primal warren
#

Heh, currently doing mechanical design and working out how to keep an elevated platform level.

#

BTW, the "grounds" are also known as "power supply return" and (important for your use case) "zero volt reference". Control signals are voltages, and a voltage can only exist between two points. The zero volt reference serves as one of those points, so a device looking at a signal can know what voltage it is (compared to zero). Without that reference, the voltage is undefined, causing things to generally not work.

surreal vapor
#

👀

little epoch
#

tl;dr: if the grounds aren't bonded, there's the potential for problem.

small dome
little epoch
#

And then anything radio is like "Oh yeah, your stuff is grounded, right? Like REALLY grounded? Wouldn't want to have a ground path with high frequency impedence such that you get happy little RF burns when you try to use me, would we?"

chrome roost
#

Hey, I'm using RFM9x 900mhz Lora Featherwing and I'm trying to power it with a Lithium Ion Polymer Battery by connecting two wires(power and ground) to the JST connector thats on the battery and on the other end to the power bus on the breadboard and from there to the radio's GND pin and Batt pin. I'm doing it this way because there's no USB or JST on the radio. Here is the radio: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3231. The issue is that it isn't initializing but I used the same code on RP2040 and it had no issue

image.png
chrome roost
primal warren
#

What CPU are you using it with?

chrome roost
#

communication is happening thro SPI

#

the CPU: ARM Cortex-M7

primal warren
#

Hmm, I wonder if it could be a timing problem. The Teensy 4 is FAST.

chrome roost
#

I slowed down the SPI timing to the lowest speed and it still didn't initialize

young cove
chrome roost
#

Interesting. I thought the 3.3V was an output power

young cove
#

no, this is a featherwing mostly meant to be used with a Feather, which supplies the 3.3V. The BAT pin is just there for convenience if you need it

chrome roost
#

Am I able to use it with teensy 4.1?

young cove
#

Sure, just connect 3.3V and ground from the Teensy to the 3V and GND pins

umbral oxide
#

double-check that you could get all the pins you need

young cove
#

but for testing you don't need the adapter

chrome roost
umbral oxide
#

I think you are right there, it would hit the battery connector... unless you used taller pins

chrome roost
#

it unfortunately still failed

chrome roost
#

for more info: The SPI transmission from teensy 4.1 is fine but the reception from featherwing to teensy 4.1 doesn't work

young cove
chrome roost
#

No, it was just a simple SPI transmission and reception code between featherwing and teensy 4.1 and a loop code in which I connected teensy 4.1 MISO and MOSI together to make sure they weren't the issue

young cove
#

Could you take a clear picture that shows the connections between your Teensy board and the FeatherWing? Also, what exactly is the error you are getting?

chrome roost
#

It’s hard to take a clear picture with so many wires so ill also describe where each pin is going

IMG_5469.jpg
young cove
#

which board is which?