general-chat

[sick apex]

once my 3D printer arrives i'll print out what i mean and construct it

well first i need to design it but yeah

[fossil dawn]

My "favourite" was a product that connected a LiPo straight to random usb c data pins. Up to 12.6V iirc 😡

[sick apex]

oh i'd never put different voltages besides 5V down USB

cause im stupid enough to plug the wrong thing into it

at some point

[fossil dawn]

Lmao same and that's how every connector should be designed for 😆

[sick apex]

well the only thing im thinking is like using a USB C male and USB C female

then an enclosure that slides in

and clicks into place

as its sliding in it pushes springs to push the male out

[fossil dawn]

Why can't you just take the D+ and D- pins and hook them up to some other connector?

[sick apex]

im using the data pins for a custom protocol between expantion boards

theoretically you could probably pass I2C over USB

ground, 5v / 3.3

SDA and SCK

which means i could use I2C to create expantion boards for my device

meaning if im not doing any RF stuff i dont need the RF node connected

OMG

I KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE

FRAMEWORK LAPTOPS

[fossil dawn]

Ah kinda copy their design with their slidy modules?

I mean there is already PCIE over USB so why not I2C 😆

[sick apex]

yes

like that but a bit bigger

but yes

basically

that

[sick apex]

well it wouldn't be the USB protocol or anything just using the connector

but using the slidy module thing (technical term)

to create expansion boards

[tranquil swallow]

https://YouTube.com/watch?v=EAQI2ZSmxPU

[glacial wigeon]

ive considered reusing sata before, for modules within a custom enclosure
would that be a bad idea?

[glad ruin]

I'll just reiterate that I generally don't consider it a good idea to use a connector designed for a specific purpose for anything other than that purpose, unless you can guarantee backward compatibility. If you want to use a SATA power connector as an easy way to get 12, 5, and 3.3V that's fine. I don't recommend using a SATA data connector for anything beyond SATA (or SAS).

[glacial wigeon]

the general idea was to have a cheap pre-made cable with diff pairs for connecting fpga's

[glad ruin]

CAT5e/CAT6

[glacial wigeon]

id assume that if the voltage parameters in the fpga are sata compliant, it would at least not fry a mis-matched module

and it only needed 2 pairs, and very short range, within a single enclosure

[glad ruin]

Yeah, at minimum it shouldn't damage any down/upstream devices expecting it to be what it is supposed to.

[glad ruin]

How fast?

[glacial wigeon]

digital audio, so fairly slow

usb2 would have enough bandwidth, but i dont want the jitter/latency usb adds

and dedicated rx and tx lanes would greatly simplify the interfacing

[glad ruin]

Honestly with that you could just twist a couple wires together and be fine.

[glacial wigeon]

i was mainly going with sata, because pre-terminated cables of the right length are cheap, and it has diff pairs

[glad ruin]

Well, if it won't break an HDD when you plug it in I don't see much harm.

[glacial wigeon]

yeah

[glad ruin]

If you want to go hilariously overkill, DisplayPort is technically capable of sending audio only.

[glacial wigeon]

lol

[glad ruin]

It can do a lot of channels.

[glacial wigeon]

the goal was more about having a number of modules, that can do 16 or 32 channels in or out, with various ports (analog, digital, xlr)

and then connect them all back to a main board, that transfers it over ethernet to a pc

[glad ruin]

Ok, in that case DisplayPort might not actually be that insane.

[glacial wigeon]

and then mix&match the modules, to get the number&type of ports you need

[glad ruin]

Shameless own-company plug: A2B was designed for this type of use case (well, automotive).

[glacial wigeon]

my target was going to be studio/stage recording/mixing

but then i got stuck trying to implement dhcp in verilog, and lost interest in the project

[raw jasper]

Funnily enough, that's technically valid :P

[raw jasper]

You need to see some cursed cryptocurrency mining-oriented motherboards

[fossil dawn]

they're the ones that do PCIE over USB cables right?

And aren't they even USB-A to USB-A? 🤔

[raw jasper]

(I am not involved in cryptocurrency, but I remember somebody compiling some in a twitter thread (before that was acquired))

[raw jasper]

Yeah, that kinda stuff

[fossil dawn]

wait, so all the Adafruit boards are just YouTuber merch? 😆

[raw jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/always-has-been-among-us-astronaut-space-betrayal-gif-23836476

[fierce prawn]

Yeah so we need to buy more

Right?

[raw jasper]

I mean, they even had plushies at some point! :>

[burnt tendon]

I remember the prior time I was upgrading my desktop, maybe 5 years ago now, I got to work and I'm like "Look at this bizarre and twisted cryptocurrency mining motherboard I found!" and my coworker's like "Yah, cryptocurrency mining rigs are a thing, but have you seen homebrew Powerwall hobbyists?"

[hasty wedge]

yeah

John Park is my fav streamer

then Lady Ada

[burnt tendon]

So, hear me out for a second.... what if A2B for polyphonic eurorack modular synth modules?

[hasty wedge]

why? he's handsome...

and products he picked always priced 50% OFF

[burnt tendon]

I'm actually really glad that the crypto thing has cratered at least well enough that I didn't feel like I was lighting money on fire buying a fancy new nVidia card because OMG they optimized the heck out of my RAW converter tool for nVidia GPUs and that was killing me.

[raw jasper]

Interestingly, I've never watched any of the adafruit streams

[glad ruin]

Honestly I don't know much about it, but I know that some cars need very low latency bidirectional audio transfer for noise cancellation and beam-forming... so I imagine it could potentially have some stage or studio applications.

[night crescent]

WE ARE LIVE! SHOW AND TELL! https://youtu.be/MH-INwe0e5Q

[night crescent]

WE ARE LIVE! ASK AN ENGINEER! https://youtu.be/Q2T49UrE3k8

10% discount code, code is: husb http://www.adafruit.com ends at midnight NYC time

[brittle knot]

Ok, I need some ideas: I've decided that I'm going to make a computer case that is designed to look like a Tandy TRS-80 Model III. The question is: what do I do with the floppies? I was thinking one could be a recessed panel for USB connections with a door that looks like a floppy drive, but I'm hoping for ideas for the second floppy that are more interestng than a shelf where I store USB drives.... Ideas are appreciated.

[dusk flax]

Not useful, but the first thing that came to mind was the lights on KITT (the car from Night Rider)

Could also hold a battery to run the computer

Pop open to show a screen with stats (cpu temp, fan speed, etc)

Fancy biometric panel

Place to charge your phone

That's all I got...

[brittle knot]

The world really does need new larson scanners, doesnt it?

[dusk flax]

100%

Especially if you make the lights go at random times

[brittle knot]

I feel like it isnt in line with the retro look I was picturing, but that maybe I need to re-evaluate my plan....

[dusk flax]

Oh, new rules to apply to my idea set...

[tardy badger]

It’s so smöl

Thai chili pepper

[dusk flax]

I assume a pop-tart toaster isn't what you were thinking either...

[brittle knot]

no. I don;t think I want to shoehorn a heater and a cooling system into the same homemade computer case...

[late fulcrum]

You could always use them for ... floppies https://www.adafruit.com/product/5679

[dusk flax]

Last thought I had was hot-swap components (SATA HD, GPU), or an actual Blu-ray drive

[late fulcrum]

You can put a card reader there (magstripe, PCMCIA, CF, SD, MMC, chip cards, NFC, etc.)

[glad ruin]

You can buy USB hubs and hard drive bays that fit in floppy drive bays.

[whole plover]

red hot tiny pepper

[brittle knot]

I was thinking it would be a computer I'd actually use, and I really have no use for floppies.

[brittle knot]

A blu-ray drive.... I haven't used one in quite a while, but that is actually something I might use once in a while...

[late fulcrum]

They're fun for playing music

[raw jasper]

And for reading old data

https://external-preview.redd.it/djh9sqiBcycg6lyk8dChbOr1_ifbrJJIjuft9JF1jLo.jpg?auto=webp&s=c161f0a3431ac40c1831bd6cebf22b1a08a12a7f

(alt: A floppy labelled "system restore disk do not erase", stuck on a fridge with a magnet)

[dusty citrus]

Is anyone abe to tell what are those white looking led?
They emit a blue light
The piece comes off from an aquarium lamp
So I fear that they may be some uvc thing? From the net I see that they should be violet, but idk

[late fulcrum]

Absolutely not UVC, those are expensive specialty items.

"white" LEDs consist of a blue LED and a phosphor that converts some of the blue light to longer (green/yellow/red) wavelengths. Some use less phosphor for a bluer light (useful in aquaria). Also, as they get old, sometimes the phosphor wears out and you get more blue.

[raw jasper]

why would one expose their fish to UVC?

[fossil dawn]

It's been a while so I might misremember: But I think for an aquarium you don't want UV. UV light apparently helps algae more than it helps the plants

[blissful roost]

To grow SUPER-FISH, obviously.

[fossil dawn]

So I'd assume that an aquarium lamp doesn't have dedicated UV LEDs. But it definitely can have blue or violet LEDs. My aquarium lamp had a mix of different led colours

[blissful roost]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-flying-gif-23231044

[late fulcrum]

For reference, this is what a UVC LED looks like. The price has come down, so they can be obtained at under $10 apiece now. https://cisuvc.com/images/cis/landing/Products_LEDs.jpg

[raw jasper]

Please stay away from the cancer LED

[late fulcrum]

I'm old fashioned, so when I want UVC (which isn't often), I get it from a mercury vapor discharge (thereby yielding a trifecta of danger: the UVC itself, mercury, and high voltage)

[raw jasper]

In which applications do you need UVC?

(Beside disinfecting spaces you'll definitely not be in while it's running)

[late fulcrum]

During the early days of the COVID epidemic, I used it to sterilize mail before bringing it into the house. At one point, I used it to get the musty odor out of a plastic jug. Note that I do have and use the appropriate protective gear.

[raw jasper]

Yeah, this looks horrifying

hahaha

Talk about using a nuclear bomb to get rid of a mosquito

[late fulcrum]

It can be eerily pretty

[raw jasper]

Did the plastic grow all brittle after the treatment?

[late fulcrum]

I'm sure it took some life off the plastic, but it was that or replace the entire jug, so I went for it

[raw jasper]

hopefully the Resulting Crosslinked And Otherwise Denatured Thing is still food-safe

[late fulcrum]

There was the time a dance club liked the look of sterilizing tubes and lit their place with a bunch of them. It ... didn't go well.

[raw jasper]

The same thing happened in some high fashion show

I remember Big Clive made a video about it

[dusty citrus]

I have the same lamps, that why I was asking

Anyhow the boss asked me if that thing was repairable
It seems that the lamp had infiltration so the cheap electronics is screwed
Also the led array seems to have contacts problems, so it's likely the same cause

[late fulcrum]

Those aren't particularly repairable. In a few cases, an individual LED has died, and you can bridge across it and the others will still light (for a little while). In other cases, it's a major project to fix them.

[dusty citrus]

Yeah but I can't just tell him that it isn't fixable
He should either buy a mew one or new electronics with a load of glue or sealing

[late fulcrum]

A while back, I found a smashed 400W street light lamp. But the inner capsule was intact, so I tried lighting it. Lit right up, and produced an amazing amount of ozone. Notes: don't try this at home, and yes I was wearing the appropriate protective gear for the UVC (and cleared the room so I didn't breathe the ozone for long).

[raw jasper]

He should probably invest in water-resistant electronics anyway given infiltration was a problem :)

[raw jasper]

Instant global disinfection! :P

Why did a street lamp produce UVC? Or did you substitute the lamp?

[dusty citrus]

He wants the casing because it fits the aquarium

But whatever

[late fulcrum]

Presumably this lamp had its outer envelope coated with phosphor, which was excited by the UVC from the inner discharge.

[raw jasper]

oh

that'd make sense

[dim panther]

Hi can someone help me with this small snippet of code?
im trying to use the signal from a ir reciever module to toggle the state of the d2 pin, what is wrong with my code?

      digitalWrite(2, !digitalRead(2));
}```
Yes pin 2 is output, as u can notice i have other if statements aswell so the others definitely work

[raw jasper]

if the phosphor was stripped away by the conditions or something

[dim panther]

my keyboard

[late fulcrum]

The entire outer envelope (along with its phosphor) was missing when I found it

[raw jasper]

ooh

that'd do it

free dangerous lamp

[late fulcrum]

I don't know what digitalRead() does when used on a pin configured as an output. It seems like it ought to work, but I'm not sure. It's also possible your code is going through the loop and toggling it twice so you get a pulse instead of a state change.

[raw jasper]

I guess it'd depend on the micro's arch

They'd probably have to look at the docs, and possibly keep track of the pin's state in an array or something

[dim panther]

it wont be able to go through the loop twice fast enough for me to not notice, theres a 100 ms delay justbefore the loop ends

[late fulcrum]

Maybe throw a Serial.print() in there to see what's happening?

[dim panther]

i was thinking of using a random int x to assign it as 0 at the start in the setup loop. then use %2 everytime to check if its 1 or 0 and based on that change the state of the led, it would also be incremented just after the conditions are fullfilled so it is always opposite the next time i press a button

[dim panther]

hmm yea, i can try that

[dim panther]

fixed it, it was my moronity and the hex code was supposed to be 946 not 964. thanks

[tardy badger]

We call those EBKACs

Error Between Keyboard And Chair

I experience many of those throughout my day

[dim panther]

haha

nice to know

[blissful roost]

The classic Layer 8 issue.

[raw jasper]

The one I've heard goes "Problem Exist Between Keyboard And Chair" -> PEBKAC

[umbral phoenix]

I like ID-10-T https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_error

(only apply that to myself)

[urban arrow]

IBM error for me...

[trim nest]

I've been getting 500 errors on some learn guides, wondering if it's just me or others get it too? ex: https://learn.adafruit.com/circuitpython-essentials/circuitpython-resetting

[urban arrow]

^^ Me also, I just figure it's temporary.

[rapid geode]

getting lots of errors on losts of sites right now actually. some isp must be having a hiccup

[tardy badger]

Cloud flare issue?

[wheat violet]

hey all, i’m in an engineering class atm and we are doing a survey to collect data for our final project it’s like 5 questions, if you could fill it out, that would be awesome https://forms.gle/j1KN6q4qRiQY934K9

[edgy apex]

its always a sad day when you break the new thing you are working on and an equally happy day when you upgrade the broken part and modify the design to make it fit

thanks to amazon the happy day was only 1 day from the sad day

[haughty pecan]

Hello everybody.
I'm using an ESP32U board. Which firmware should I use?

Now I'm using the "DOIT ESP32 Development Board", but I can't get the CPU temperature and other data.

[fossil dawn]

What firmware? Circuitpython?

[haughty pecan]

Yes.

[lusty pendant]

Has the monster m4sk been discontinued?

I have a project I'm working on and the monster m4sk is exactly what I need

are there alternatives?

[late fulcrum]

It's listed as "out of stock", not discontinued. Possibly because one of the parts it uses is (still) in short supply. As for alternatives, it's basically a pair of displays, you could get the displays separately or use other products that contain them.

[late fulcrum]

It may also be a seasonal item: I doubt a lot of people buy them in February. However, October is just around the corner, so perhaps they'll make another batch.

[fair summit]

it has been a chip shortage issue

[tardy badger]

I saw the Samd51 had a bit of stock on Digi-Key last I looked 🙂

[umbral phoenix]

Adafruit product suggestion: wings, BFFs, etc. for each size form factor (QT Py, Itsy Bitsy, Feather, Metro) with high-pixel-density (color) display. There are ESP32-S2 & ESP32-S3 TFT MCUs with 240x135, but no wings near that pixel count / density. Closest Metro shield is 2.8" 240x320 (lower-res perhaps due to the touch screen). 5x5 NeoPixel BFF is the densest QT Py size. There are lots of good displays available separately, but with more complex wiring and packaging options. There are a small number of 3rd-party choices, though not optimal for various reasons.

[tardy badger]

Like this?

I need to re order the boards as I accidentally swapped the pin order (classic mistake for display connectors)

[umbral phoenix]

oversized, but yeah... what's the pixel count?

[tardy badger]

This is the 0.9” TFT I think 128x64?

[umbral phoenix]

I'd also like a true-BFF-sized color display... fewer pixels, but high density like the ESP32-S3 TFT

[tardy badger]

Ah it’s 80x160

[umbral phoenix]

ah, that's better

I bet there's a 100x150 or even 120x180 that would fit on the back of a QT Py with no overhang

[tardy badger]

There is a 0.4” oled that would fit

But it’s monochrome

[umbral phoenix]

yeah, and OLEDs have burn-in issues over time

(my displays are mostly always-on)

[tardy badger]

It doesn’t look like TFTs get smaller than the 0.96” ones

[umbral phoenix]

probably similar display to what's on the Joystick featherWing

[tardy badger]

Correct

[umbral phoenix]

~2/3 the pixel density of the 240x135

maybe what I want just doesn't exist 😦

[tardy badger]

The TFT feathers have the 1.14” TFT

Those tend to be 64x128

[umbral phoenix]

0.96" 160x80 is 186 PPI

1.14" 240x135 is 242 PPI

2" 320x240 is 200 PPI

that 1.14" 240x135 is in a really sweet spot... very crisp text and vivid color

[tardy badger]

Is the 1.14” 240x135?

[umbral phoenix]

yup

[tardy badger]

Ah wow, cool

You could make a qt py bff that has smt mounted headers so you can do a larger display

There’ll be a little bit of overhang

But would be pretty cool

[umbral phoenix]

like the 320x240 and 480x320 FeatherWings I suppose

[tardy badger]

Yeah

[umbral phoenix]

the 1.3" 240x240 is 261 PPI :p

but square is awkward on typically rectangular boards

I'll stick with the Feather TFTs until something else comes along

rounded rect 1.47" 320x172 is 247 PPI https://www.adafruit.com/product/5393 (too wide for a Feather though)

can you tell I'm all about finding the right pixel density? I was irked at Apple for coming out with a 32" 6K display that won't run at any intermediate resolutions between 3K (not enough pixels) and 6K (too small pixels). My sweet spot for a computer display is 100-110 PPI, so I went with 43" 4K display that runs at 4K.

[sick apex]

anyone got a good way of connecting like

26 buttons to a micro controller

using the smallest amount of pins as possible

kinda like a keyboard

wait better way of explaining

like one of these bad boys

[static flare]

i used to have a chart somewhere but i can't find it

[fossil dawn]

Do it like a keyboard! 😄 "Keyboard matrix"

[sick apex]

but if i wanted to make one of my own instead of buying one

i want a cool project

[fossil dawn]

It's just a way of wiring

You can totally diy it

[sick apex]

well i have an 8bit shift register somewhere

think i'd be able to use that?

or would that be frivolous

[static flare]

You shouldn't need to

[sick apex]

i've never had anything i need to use it on

well tell a lie, i used it for parity once

[static flare]

But for a keyboard like that I'd say you need 14 or so pins?

[sick apex]

well there are 26 letters in the alphabet

if i wanted numbers that would include another 10

cause with my tool

i do not want a digital keyboard

i hate digital keyboards

so i wanna make it like a blackberry kinda

it's gunna be big

got a 3.5" capacitive touch TFT display on the way to me

gunna be powered by an ESP32-S3

with a 32GB SD card to store pcap files

[static flare]

14 pins being for 40 keys

[sick apex]

ohhhhhhh

[static flare]

4 rows of 10

[sick apex]

the S3 has 40 afaik

i haven't counted them

but its a long boi

i think im gunna write another tool that can use LoRa to transmit wifi data sniffed from a device

meaning i can connect the transmitter to a network ≈1000 meters away

transmit the files back over LoRa which will be transmitted through bluetooth to a program i'll write

[static flare]

But how many buttons do you want

[sick apex]

to dump them into wireshark

around 36

[static flare]

I found the chart again

[sick apex]

yay

[static flare]

13 minimum without any support circuitry

[sick apex]

what kind of support circutry

[static flare]

ICs and such

[sick apex]

infact i might just get a digi key

[fossil dawn]

https://www.instructables.com/64-Key-Prototyping-Keyboard-Matrix-for-Arduino/ here's a random tutorial for key matrix with an Arduino. Tbh I haven't read it fully 😄

[sick apex]

and use that to transmit it all over I2C

wait the digikey doesn't have enough pins

i have one somewhere

[sick apex]

i'll use this

OMG

IMMA MAKE IT LIKE A NINTENDO DS

that gave me the best idea ever

thank you mister / miss pengu

i might do that but wire it into a PicoW

cause im gunna need another wifi transmitter anyways

so i can double up on the ap flood thing

but that way i can use the pins on it aswell

use I2C to transmit the keycode

or i could use bluetooth

because then i can make it remote controlled

idk

[fossil dawn]

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4918 Adafruit also has this dedicated thingy for if you want a keyboard matrix but I2C. I think you could totally copy that but with a Pico

[sick apex]

I need to goto AA

AliExpress Anonymous

I have a problem

[tardy badger]

Lol

[sick apex]

it's so bad

😭

I buy too much crap

recent purchases

[raw jasper]

How much £ do you spend on aliexpress per month?

[sick apex]

SO MUCH

😭

i just see so much cool stuff

its a problem

its really a problem

😭

[raw jasper]

You will end up with the home of a hoarder if you don't rein it in!

[sick apex]

qwq i know

i have like

20 mcus

at this point

[raw jasper]

I guess you could put the aliexpress domains in your adblocker blocklist :P

ublock origin has strict blocking, which you could leverage to keep yourself honest

[sick apex]

yeah but then i'll need something for a project im working on and then i'll not have it

and wont be able to order it

[dusty citrus]

Has anyone of you ever seen an half decent cooking robot Project?
On consumer electronics all I see are fancier pots, on the net crap

[stray wind]

Hey, folks! Today is my last day with Adafruit, and was my last day as an admin here on Discord. Thank you for being wonderful, and for being one of the biggest reasons I was drawn into this chapter of my life in the first place. We should all be proud of what we built together here, and of this thing we are a part of. Helping build this community is one of the most amazing and fulfilling things I have done over the last five years. Thank you for accepting me as a leader in this community and for giving me the opportunity to experience building an open source community. Every day here I watched folks being great to each other, having a positive impact on each other's lives, and helping out in untold ways. I know you will continue to be wonderful, and that you will keep this momentum going. I'm not going anywhere; I'm simply participating in a different capacity from here on out. Thank you again, and see you around! 💜 😊

[glad ruin]

As your last act as an official mod here you should have pinned that post.

[uncut trench]

I beg to differ. I'd have said 11 is the absolute minimum for a 26 key matrix. Either 5 by 6 or 4 by 7.

[static flare]

13 for 36, not 26

[late fulcrum]

I wonder if you can Charlieplex a switch matrix...

[whole jacinth]

i believe so, though usual Charlieplex caveats apply

[rain cradle]

26(or any amount, really) keys can be done with 3/4 pins if you daisy chain enough shift registers. Would get slower the more inputs to be read, but pin number would remain constant

But as long as you aren't short of pins, a 5x6 (or perhaps slightly different shape) matrix sounds like the easiest way

[late fulcrum]

I've been known to use the HT16K33 chip, which is ostensibly an LED driver, as a keypad controller, as it can control up to 39 keys, and takes care of the scanning and bookkeeping for you (and if you want to light LEDs too, it's a win)

[rapid geode]

most keyboards use 2 pins... usb

/me runs

[half sun]

I wonder if you can connect them in parallel to@increase the current output, these are the ip5306

[glad ruin]

Read the datasheet. If it explicitly says you can, then it's probably ok assuming you are able to wire them together correctly (parallel connected regulators tend to have additional requirements on the feedback path, and in the case of switching ones there may be some additional synchronization signals).

[tardy badger]

That might work so long as your supply can drive them. But it would probably be easier to buy a supply that can deliver more

[half sun]

They use 3.7v lithium batteries

[worthy magnet]

I have couple of PICs

Idk what to do lol

[glacial wigeon]

another option, slap another MCU with more free gpio on 1 pin (plain old uart)
have the 2nd MCU scan a matrix, and just report key events over serial

now you have the speed of a matrix, with even better pin savings!

[whole jacinth]

the keyboards i've been working on use a USB-enabled MCU to talk to the host, and I2C to talk to two (cheaper) key scanner MCUs. (they're split keyboards, so one scanner per side)

[rapid geode]

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4918

[solar kindle]

Yep. I just made a 2×6 keypad that emulates a USB keyboard. Managed to squeeze it all into a Trinket. Used all 5 available I/O pins, though. The Arduino Keypad library will scan the matrix for you. Even handles debounce and multi-key presses. Just need to have enough pins to attach to rows×columns. You can get away with up to 2 keys pressed at a time. If you want to have 3-key combos, you'll need to add diodes to each key switch to prevent false keypresses. The INO file uploaded here does all the scanning and keyboard emulation. Something like a Feather M0 Basic Proto has 20 I/O pins, so could conceivably handle up to a 10x10 keyboard. If you need to use I2C, though, you're looking at 18 free pins (9×9=81, 8×10=80, etc).
https://www.printables.com/model/569035-6-key-usb-keypad/files

[sick apex]

oh nice

[solar kindle]

I'm still working on the OpenSCAD code for generating arbitrary keypads/keyboards, but my latest test looks like this:

[pastel steppe]

a bit of a silly question - new to soldering
so I need to connect my zero to this component

do I need to buy a header to connect a raspberry pi to it?

did some research - yes I do

[tardy badger]

I have the most interesting internet issue

My fiber modem seems to be dropping its traffic configuration shortly after setting up a dhcp lease. What this means is that for a short period after setting up the lease I can send/receive internet traffic. But after a few seconds, it loses the configuration and stops being able to communicate with my router.

I confirmed this happening on 3 routers and hooking directly up to my MacBook Pro. Pretty strange

Thank goodness for cellular internet

Now to wait for my provider to come out and swap in a new fiber modem to see if it will work

[raw jasper]

that's an interesting issue indeed. If only it didn't cause so much disruption

[jagged citrus]

Of course you do

Are you using a zero? Most models come with the headers pre-soldered

[pastel steppe]

Yep using the zero - ordered the piece I need, I just soder the pins to the arduino like I would anything else right?

[jagged citrus]

yes

if you have soldered before it should be easy

[pastel steppe]

I’m a complete novice but I’m ready to try lol

[tardy badger]

Yeah, spent a few hours with a network engineer who said this is the strangest thing he’s seen yet

[pastel steppe]

The kit has to actually arrive at my house - luckily it does not seem like there’s MUCH I can mess up on this thing (famous last words)

[fossil dawn]

plz try it first with a cheaper board 😄

[raw jasper]

Well, at least you got escalated to a network engineer, and did not have to go through the "did you reboot your modem" song and dance a few thousand times :)

[fossil dawn]

I've seen things, you people wouldn't believe, hmmm.
Solder joints on fire on the shore of PCBs.
I've watched cold joints not glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.
All those moments, will be lost in time like the boards that died in rain...

Seriously though, there are harder "first solder joints". 😄

[pastel steppe]

I’ll see if I can find an old controller or something and see if I can unsolder/re-solder a connection o:

[fossil dawn]

good idea though that old controller or something might actually be harder to unsolder if it uses lead-free 😄

[pastel steppe]

Good to know lol

[fossil dawn]

Make sure to properly inspect the board before turning it on after soldering. A lot of solder fails can be cleaned up without lasting damage if they're detected before they actually cause a short

(But soldering is actually really fun and very helpful to know so I hope I'm not worrying you too much. 😄 And you don't want to see my first solder jobs)

[tardy badger]

Probably the benefit of using a local provider rather than a national provider

[jagged citrus]

When i tried soldering for the first time i accidentally grabbed the whole metal heating element with my bare hands

Pay attention to what youre doing

[late fulcrum]

After finally getting to the real engineers at one provider, the engineer told me the secret phrase to make the automated attendant skip the filtering and connect me to a real enginner.

[rapid geode]

you unlocked a level int he game

[fossil dawn]

insert that one soldering stock photo here

[late fulcrum]

More like a save point: I don't have to replay all those early levels again

[glad ruin]

https://xkcd.com/806/

xkcd: Tech Support

I recently had someone ask me to go get a computer and turn it on so I could restart it. He refused to move further in the script until I said I had done that.

[fossil dawn]

I recently had someone ask me to go get a computer and turn it on so I could restart it. He refused to move further in the script until I said I had done that.
With modern windows this actually makes 100% sense😭 (if the issue is actually with the computer/windows)

[late fulcrum]

I was on the phone with a scammer a while back who explained that I had to withdraw all my money from the bank in cash. So I waited 30 seconds and said I had done so. He insisted that I was lying.

[glad ruin]

Can't imagine why.

[late fulcrum]

I've gotten several of them to give me a mailing address, I report all those directly to the mail fraud investigators.

[glacial wigeon]

lost the image, but ive seen a meme, where the tech support is asking them to reboot, and they said they did
then they open task manager, and point at the 102 day uptime 😛

[late fulcrum]

Heh, imagine a system primitive enough to have task manager being able to stay up that long! There was a bug for YEARS that meant it couldn't stay up for more than 47 days, and they didn't find it, because other bugs wrecked it before it could get there.

[fossil dawn]

yes, but "power off - power on" != "reboot" but for the average user it feels like those two things should totally be the same

[late fulcrum]

In a well designed system, they would be...

[fossil dawn]

I think "power off - power on" doesn't reset the taskmanager "uptime"

[glacial wigeon]

windows also cheats lately
the "shutdown" button just closes some apps, and goes into standby

[fossil dawn]

we're talking about windows here 😝

[glacial wigeon]

so it can "boot" faster next time

[fossil dawn]

exactly that thing

I think I have that feature turned off 🤔

[glacial wigeon]

ive also heard a story, where my uncle was helping my grandma diagnose printer issues over the phone

he got to the "is it still plugged in" step
my grandma replied, "that dang cat"

the cat had chewed clean thru an LPT cable

[fossil dawn]

cat 0 cable or something

[pastel steppe]

is it safe to solder on a wooden desk??

[fossil dawn]

I solder with a silicone mat on a wooden desk. But before that I used a piece of wood on a wooden desk

[pastel steppe]

good to know, thank u

i just found a big piece of silicone in my room o:<

[fossil dawn]

The main issue is just that if you touch the desk with the soldering iron tip, it will get black and ugly. Won't catch on fire immediately. In fact, you can write and draw on wood with a soldering iron

I don't really care about ESD tbh. (I don't have a carpet but I don't really wear those straps or stuff like that)

[jagged citrus]

DO YOU HAVE A SOLDERING IRON HOLDER

caps lock my bad

[fossil dawn]

of course

[pastel steppe]

I think this is how you use it

[jagged citrus]

ok good

[pastel steppe]

TIM TAMS

[glacial wigeon]

ive got one of these, havent bothered with desk protection, just been careful

i dont solder much

[jagged citrus]

TIM TAMS

[pastel steppe]

i thot i could desolder this ps3 controllers micro usb part

because my mic ubs port broke

[glacial wigeon]

but, can you guess what country i'm in? 😄

[pastel steppe]

timtamia

what country do they come from lol

[glacial wigeon]

aussie land 😛

[pastel steppe]

finland?

oh lol

[jagged citrus]

straya'

[glacial wigeon]

and to mess with people, ive been leaving a north-american smart outlet on the tim-tams 😛

mixed signals!

[pastel steppe]

lol

is there a way to desolder something without desoldering wire

or is it not possible

[glacial wigeon]

blasted it with enough heat that all pins are molten at once

and then just pull it out

hot-air helps with that

[pastel steppe]

I will buy a heat gun eventually i've seen they can make cool terrain for DND stuff

you can heat up styrofoam to make cool terrain

[glacial wigeon]

solder wick/braid lets you remove the solder one pin at a time, so you dont need them all molten

[fossil dawn]

Hakko or fake? 😄

[glacial wigeon]

if the connector doesnt need to survive, cut the pins, then you can remove them one by one

[fossil dawn]

desolder pump

[glacial wigeon]

proper hakko

[fossil dawn]

nice 👍

[jagged citrus]

desoldering pump thing device

apparatus thingamabob gizmo

depending on what youre desoldering its better than soldering braid

[fossil dawn]

I like them generally way more than braid

[ebon dew]

They're especially good for desoldering header pins and clearing pin holes of any solder quickly.

[glacial wigeon]

that reminds me, one of my dads co-workers, was borrowing my dads solder pump thing

and the guard on the back was missing

when he hit the button, the plunger bopped him in the face 😛

[jagged citrus]

My new camera lookin fine 🫰 🤑

[raw jasper]

This... looks ready to fall down while hot, potentially giving you some serious burns in the process

[glacial wigeon]

thats only where i store it

i bring it down to the main desk surface when in use

[glacial wigeon]

a wider shot of the desk

the cover can close over the keyboard, giving a large flat surface to work on

[raw jasper]

Sun keyboard
Ultra fancy neo gaming mouse

Whiplash

[glacial wigeon]

lol

ive been using this keyboard for decades, and changing keyboards messes with my touch typing

[late fulcrum]

I used one of those for many years too

[tardy badger]

Looks like inter webs issues is much larger than just my internet

The network engineer is doing a bunch of different stuff because they’ve never seen this before

I love when my stuff breaks in ways that people have never seen before

I have a real talent for it

[jagged citrus]

Bowls

5 bowls

[glacial wigeon]

i already put them in the kitchen!

[tardy badger]

Pro tip for all you internet users out there: don’t put your google mesh Wi-Fi router in bridge mode. You might accidentally take out a lot of people’s internet lol

[ebon dew]

You're not allowed to be in bridge mode?

[tardy badger]

The person who had it in bridge mode managed to bridge it with the ISP directly causing a network loop in which it was acting as a rogue DHCP server. So yeah, probably not a super great idea

It didn’t help that this person was also on a network switch for a building which was not properly set up to avoid these kinds of situations

[ebon dew]

That just sounds like bad ISP network design if something like that is possible.

[tardy badger]

It is a small local isp with 2200 subscribers, the network switch in question wasn’t one of theirs but part of a housing complex. They were able to track it down and turn off their internet, called the person to tell them to not do that, and things were good after that.

Rogue DHCP server issues are incredibly rare

[uncut trench]

That's assuming you let it. If you know what you're doing, it's trivial to get the shutdown button to do a full power off of Windows. Which I always do, since my system is a laptop, so when I shut down I want it 100% off to preserve the battery while travelling with it.

[fossil dawn]

Iirc even the default "fake shutdown" is to 0 power as it's suspend-to-disk

[raw jasper]

Now you make me wonder whether the "hibernate" terminology has fallen into disuse...

Of course, they describe the same action, and "suspend to disk" is clearer

I'm still curious though

[glacial wigeon]

i think ive also heard, that windows will wake from suspend-to-ram after say 2 hours, and then go back into suspend-to-disk

so it knows your not coming back, and goes into a deeper sleep

[raw jasper]

IIRC it does do that

Imagine doing that with a HDD laptop

while it's moving

OTOH, the chance of this happening in the present day is very slim, and I am sure windows has code that prevents this scenario from ever occurring

[dusty citrus]

Is the rigol ds1054z still valid to this age or has it got replaced by something else? (400ish€)
Also a recommended multimeter for 50ish, with a light or acustic or something else reporter?

[tardy badger]

Garden haul 🤓

[burnt tendon]

The best part of waking to catch the OSIRIS-REX sample capsule landing was the part where the entire advance team died mysteriously and a black government helicopter took over and moved the capsule and two mysterious survivors, a crying baby and a sterno-addicted old guy, to a secret government laboratory protected by a nuclear warhead.

(It's a joke, don't worry)

[late fulcrum]

It's been a bit since I read "The Andromeda Strain"

[dusk flax]

And now I've added another book to my library queue...

[tardy badger]

I did my first podcast episode on OSIRIS-REx fairly short and sweet

I did pretty good for my first episode, 2 listens so far

Kind of cool that they landed it in Utah where I currently live 🤓

Unfortunately it didn’t land on my house so I didn’t get to say “dibs!”

[burnt tendon]

I waved as it went over.

[tardy badger]

oh nice

[burnt tendon]

I was kinda worried there'd be a repeat of Genesis where I'd gotten out with a tripod and medium format camera to try and capture the reentry.

[patent hemlock]

the og movie is pretty good, too, but not quite as terrifying

i feel a bit sorry for the NASA commentators trying to fill all that dead air with excitement when it's really not all that exciting

[tardy badger]

Why isn’t it all that exciting?

Sure it’s not a person on the moon or mars but it’s a first of its kind sample that might give us a good idea of how certain materials made it to earth

[patent hemlock]

no, the concept is exciting -- trying to get "real-time" excited about watching a 5-minute parachute drop is something else 😏 -- although the last 2 minutes or so when the chopper camera got it was pretty neat

[tardy badger]

Oh yeah, that makes sense

[dusk flax]

Ooohhh. I'm always a book first if I can. But will track down the movie too

[patent hemlock]

yep, book first

[burnt tendon]

Yeah, like, I found contamination control fascinating and would have loved to get more details there, LOL.

[tardy badger]

I find the idea of the movie Evolution to be very fascinating

[burnt tendon]

I should watch it if for no other reason than I generally like Reitman more than Crichton.

But yah I kinda came and went to the livestream but I felt like there were a lot of pieces to the story I found most fascinating that they skipped over. Like how Bennu was totally different from what they'd predicted and therefore they had way more samples than they'd expected to collect, so much so that they had to change the stowing procedures.

[tardy badger]

Or the fact the mission almost failed entirely

[raw jasper]

I guess not being a "real" space nerd and not living in the US means that I get to learn about all the cool space stuff after the fact :P

[solar flicker]

Hey
Uhm...
Can I ask questions about MicroPython here?
The Discord server of MicroPython is like a graveyard...
No one is alive...

[tardy badger]

Sure, #help-with-projects would be a good place to start 🙂

[tight copper]

How many amps can a feather put out

[umbral phoenix]

@tight copper from the regulator, or from individual GPIO pins? it varies by board, see the product pages and learn guides for the specific board

[tight copper]

Ah, I am trying to figure out if I can use a feather to run a 5v 1 Amp peltier element

[umbral phoenix]

nope

[tight copper]

Ya that's what I was afraid of

[umbral phoenix]

most of the 3.3v regulars on board are 500-700 milliamps

[tight copper]

Dang

[umbral phoenix]

you be using battery or USB then

battery typ. 3.7-4.2v

USB may be limited to 500mA, and that's for the board too

[tight copper]

I am making a phone cooler so I need to figure how how to charge a battery and have a battery beefy enough to power the element and fan

[tight copper]

Ah, not good

[umbral phoenix]

best to check specifics for the board

[tight copper]

Ok, thank you

[late fulcrum]

Heh, I'm making a phone cooler too. I'm currently contemplating a 3S lithium pack to power it, with separate buck converters for the Peltier cooler and to charge the phone.

Oh right, a fan output too, but I can probably run a 12V fan directly from the battery pack.

[tight copper]

Can I get a link to the 3s?

[late fulcrum]

3S just refers to 3 cells in series. There are lots of 3S battery packs out there from the usual R/C vendors. Here's one source https://www.buddyrc.com/collections/3s-11-1v-1

[tight copper]

Dang that's too big for me

Can you undervolt a peltier element?

Underamp?

Idk

[late fulcrum]

They're just less powerful at lower voltage

[tight copper]

I'll have to test it and see

I am sick of my screen getting hot during gameplay

Thx!

[solar kindle]

Oh dear. USPS ground is usually the most efficient way of getting stuff from Adafruit. But it seems like the post office messed up this time. The package got to within 20 miles of my house, then decided to go on a tour of the southeastern states. 😆

[late fulcrum]

Heh, I know that Hyattsville one, my mail goes through it a lot

[patent hemlock]

you think it's messed up today, just wait a couple of weeks 🙁

i've got one at "shipping label created" state, so 🤞

[rapid geode]

correct use of pumpkins.

mm

[jagged citrus]

Edibles

[night crescent]

Desk of Ladyada - Stories about Screens & SAMD51 & Generic 24-series I2C EEPROM https://youtu.be/680tykO-PCs

[torpid jungle]

Out of curiosity, what site would be the best to view all kind of SBC computers that there is?

Is there a single site or list where I could have a look of them, like Pis, Orange Pis, NanoPis, Beaglebones, etc.

[dusty citrus]

Sort of
https://hackerboards.com/
Their database is somewhat old
But better than nothing

[torpid jungle]

Sweet, just what the type I was looking for! Thanks!

Though, I might be looking for something that does not exist: One with power and RJ45 on other edge and USB connector on the opposite edge (though with minor power, like Pi Zero)

[dusty citrus]

I can't help
But you may just use some extension cord of some kind

[torpid jungle]

Yeah but it would not be small form factor and clean looking.

One option is that I take a Pi Zero and add USB+RJ45 hat.

[dusty citrus]

There were some usb flat cable connector around AliExpress along with other connectors
You may use those, or solder some jumpers

[torpid jungle]

Not an bad idea actually

[raw jasper]

I wonder what kind of unholy industrial thing you are trying to do..:P

[torpid jungle]

Just a basic Zigbee + 433MHz receiver dongle that is powered with PoE (either Poe on board or PoE via splitter)

I would use generic 433MHz receiver but the issue is that the RTL433 project requires those Realtek TV dongles

[raw jasper]

Why do you want the ethernet port on a specific side?

[torpid jungle]

I want it to be as small form factor and clean so that the power and RJ45 is on the same edge

[raw jasper]

makes sense

[torpid jungle]

RockPi E would be pausible but man, it's nowhere to be available

[raw jasper]

Welcome to the wonderful world of sbcs!

[torpid jungle]

Yep

Looks nice, nowhere to be possible to buy

Screw it

Pi Zero with Hat it is

Or NanoPi

And then scrap that 433MHz in it

Or I could go totally overkill and get CM4 module, or something cheap that fits to the same socket

[raw jasper]

you'd have to design a carrier board for the module, but it'd provide the ultimate flexibility

otoh, that does sound like overkill

[torpid jungle]

Not necessarily

https://www.waveshare.com/product/raspberry-pi/boards-kits/compute-module-4-cat/cm4-nano-b.htm

[dusty citrus]

Ah btw you can rip off designs from olimex
And likely allwinners and rockchips should have reference design too

[glad ruin]

If it's an open source design and you stay within the license it isn't really ripping it off.

[torpid jungle]

I just kinda need to find a cheap CM4 board style Then again, I have combined two words that do not belong next to each other

[raw jasper]

first, you need to find a cm4

[torpid jungle]

Cheap CM4

sooo

Imma go make a lottery, I have bigger chances with that than with "cheap CM4"

[glad ruin]

Something something I TOLD YOU SO
https://x.com/Dexerto/status/1706391604687151425?s=20

Dexerto (@Dexerto)

“Almost too hot to touch while fast charging”

Several iPhone 15 Pro users are reporting overheating issues

Twitter · Sep 25, 2023, 7:33 PM

[raw jasper]

context?

(I guess it's drawing an unholy amount of energy for fast charging, some of which proceeds to be converted/lost to heat?)

[glacial wigeon]

related, ive heard of issues with the nintendo switch

it normally charges at 15v over usb-c, with the official brick

but its using a watt limit, not an input current limit

so if you feed it with a 5v usb adapter, it draws 3x as many amps

and the losses to heat, are based on amps

and with 3x as much losses, the charge controller chip cooks itself!

so, fast-charging with the wrong usb-c brick, could lead to such issues

[dusty citrus]

Twitter ???

[static flare]

tbh my phone also can get really hot to touch when fast charging

[whole plover]

Rip

[blissful roost]

What's wrong with it?

[whole plover]

At first I was getting temperamental displays that would not be detected on startup, reinserting the cable after boot it did detect displays. Then next I was getting weird pixel formations flashing at different locations, then the monitors would cut out. So I took the card out and inspected there was build up of leak and oxidization so I did a clean of the areas with isopropyl alcohol and now the card does nothing with displays. Fan spins and power is there but no output.

Also during faults it was logging to the event viewer that the pointer could no longer detect the display it was connected to

[ebon dew]

I feel like if you set it on fire and it doesn't magically come back to life you should get your money back.

Kind of a left field joke because I believe that is an ASUS Phoenix.

Good 1060 card (when it works). You didn't mention where it was wet. Do see some weird corrosion in some spots.

[whole plover]

Thanks @ebon dew yeh it's an old card now first bought in early 2017 maybe even late 2016. I'm happy to say farewell to it and yeh I think it was the Asus phoenix 3gb where I totally bought the wrong variant. Many games would have benefited from the extra few gb the other model offered for an extra £30 nevermind. It's toast now.

I don't actually care too much about a high end GPU at the moment although I'm debating with the idea of a 3060 because the hardware stack is pretty solid. The only problem is windows don't support the CPU for windows 11 but I could work with that eventually or go back to full time Linux.

I considered selling my entire setup monitors included and just rethinking my whole usage and going to a sigma or a nuc with an egpu.

That said I've been able to put a 1030 I had around so it's totally ample for what I need. If I come by a little income boost I'll probably get a 3060 and run the whole hardware for another 5 years. I rarely see bottlenecks for my usage and there's still a lot of upgrade potential with ram and storage.

So yeh panic over, no fmls and onwards

One solution to work with windows 11 would be to get an apu since my mainboard has support for TCM security. It's 1st gen Ryzen that's the issue which is so bad of Microsoft to throw it away. Great cpu. Tons of juice

I'm also happy it errored out the way it did. Made diagnosing the issue much easier.

I'll try it in another hardware stack but if it's no good it will be available for anyone who can repair

[ebon dew]

I have a 1550 4gb for my workshop PC. Does everything I need as a workstation. Capable little cards.

[whole plover]

They certainly are. It didn't play nice with Linux for me. Always crippled performance

[ebon dew]

ah yeah I'm not running Linux. Linux forums are the best place to get recommendations on cards based on the best driver support.

I did run Linux for a while and the biggest headache was graphic and audio drivers.

I miss the 750 Ti's that were bus powered, no external power cables needed.

and 1050 Ti's were the last iteration that was bus powered I think.

[whole plover]

Yeh as far as I could see in a couple of years using Linux daily was that Nvidia would release a driver package for the main distros which was proprietary and could not be altered. So Linux Devs could not develop on it meaning whatever Nvidia choose to release for Linux is as good as it gets.

I don't believe they make it easy to be reverse engineered as there are Linux reverse drivers for Nvidia but the proprietary ones were usually more performance

Yeh the 1030 is bus powered

[ebon dew]

Yeah last time I ran Linux as my main pretty sure I had an ATI card. 😅

drivers have likely become far more complex since then

[whole plover]

Yeh I hear that's a better hardware choice for Linux. So I'm gonna to figure out what the next month's bring me with income (I'm at the mercy of part time work ATM) so it is what it is . I do have a raspberry pi that could be a main if I need to lol

[ebon dew]

and they weren't proprietary, you could cobble together your own if you really needed to for an unsupported card.

[whole plover]

Maybe all I need is mainsale anyway lolol

[ebon dew]

NUC is nice for a small space but expansion compared to a regular ATX build is very minimal, highly specialized, and proprietary parts.

Welp sorry to hear about your card. Glad your back up and running again.

[whole plover]

thanks, yeh... a little weird with 1 screen until i get a new active displayport cable but all is good

i checked out sketchup performance in browser and it's adequate

yeh nucs are cool if you really want to minimise things but i'm thinking about this pc and how the part has failed but if i buy in with an upgrade, it's a huge upgrade to modern. so working with a hardware stack of your own choice still has benefits beyond

[tender heron]

Yeah nouveau is the open source nvidia driver. I do not believe it works with the latest cards though. The proprietary nvidia drivers aren't terrible.

AMD has open source drivers now for Linux.

[wanton thistle]

Question for those who travel for work (ie service calls and what not): Do you get paid more for being on the road or do you get the same wage as you normally do?

[dusty citrus]

Same wage
Although the food, the place to stay, and the gas/travel is usually refunded under a fixed rate that's on the contract

But it's italy, the european mexico, so it may depend on the location and contract

[tardy badger]

I have literally never heard someone call Italy the European Mexico 😂

[jagged citrus]

Unpopular opinion, the rpi zero 2w

s u c k s*

[tardy badger]

Why?

What’s wrong with it?

[jagged citrus]

1. this already existed

2. mine died in a month so im biased against it lololol

3. pricey and hard to get
4. specs aint that good compared to other brands boards (mango pi, banana pi m2 zero, orange pi zero 2, nanopi)

In my opinion, the only things that are better on the zero 2w is the community support, popularity, and that it doesnt heat up as much as the bpi m2-zero

And now the orange pi zero 2 came out, with 1G, 2G and 4G ram options, 1.5 ghz aarch64 quad core processor, with usb type c

For like $25~$30 dollerinos

I do think the community support is an important thing tho, considering that raspberry pi products are usualy aimed at beginners

And ive suffered so much trying some modules or boards with bad or little documentation and almost no community feedback or support cough cough ov7670 cough cough sipeed m0 sense

[thick wind]

You say pricey, but they’re supposed to be half the price of an orange pi zero 2

[glacial wigeon]

died, or was murdered?

[thick wind]

One of the rpi zero2w’s most defining strengths is efficiency. The reduced heat output is proof of that. You can easily get specs elsewhere, but the power efficient performance from that $15 board is tough to match.

[whole plover]

try getting access to all the awesome gpio libs in these other boards. yes you have gpiod usually always but layers of abstraction are missing making these boards hardish to work with and the official os releases usually have huge bugs in one awkward place or anotehr

but if u have a set dev path which wont increase your dev time ridiculously (fixing bugs / solutions) then yes you get a lot of power with these boards

[jagged citrus]

supposed to, but due to the shortage their price has skyrocketed

[jagged citrus]

Died, i wasnt doing anything with the gpio. It was in its case. I just rebooted it and stopped working. Yes ive tried using other sd cards, yes i have tried different power supplies, yes i have tried other os images other than rpi os lite 64bit, yes ive tried to connect it to my computers usb to see if its detected. Maybe some day ill figure out how it died

[jagged citrus]

Yes yes true, i almost forgot about that, the zero 2w is CRAZY power efficient compared to the banana pi, in fact that was one of my favorite aspects of the zero 2 w. But ooga booga big compooter power better /s

[glacial wigeon]

probed the 3.3v header with a volt meter? whats it reading?

[jagged citrus]

That's a very good point, i already mentioned the documentation and support of the raspberry pi compared to other boards. It was a bit complicated getting the gpio to work on the banana pi. In fact i forgot how to do it, i think i used blinka and it worked flawlessly

[jagged citrus]

Yes, did that as well, but i dont remember the reading. Ill try that later to see what i get

@patent hemlock what is bro cooking

[patent hemlock]

something snarky and not necessarily helpful 😏

however, i've had one in a high dust/cat hair location for over two months and the only problem i've had is (was) keeping my MQTT client connected

[jagged citrus]

I forgot to mention, I NEVER OVERCLOCK ANYTHING, its too risky

[glacial wigeon]

from what ive seen, overclocking only has a risk of crashing and corruption

over-volting has a risk of hw damage

you can overclock without overvolt

[patent hemlock]

i only ever overclocked on a Pi 2 -- everything was "fast enough" after that

[jagged citrus]

Never overvolted anything, even riskier

[glacial wigeon]

as far as i know, overclocking on its own has zero risk to the hardware

[jagged citrus]

Yeah but it can overheat the hardware, and that worries me

[glacial wigeon]

the rpi firmware has thermal throttling

it will underclock itself automatically when it gets hot

[jagged citrus]

Wait really? That's a nice feature

[glacial wigeon]

yes, it has had that for years

above 85c, it will throttle itself

[jagged citrus]

Im still not overclocking it

Risky risky

But its a good safety feature for people that want to

[glacial wigeon]

the firmware also throttles the clocks when low voltage is detected

though, the zero isnt able to detect low voltage

i had also done testing, and discovered, that at idle, cpu freq means nothing, in terms of waste heat production

its entirely about core voltage

but you need a higher voltage, to let the higher clock be stable

[whole plover]

i overclocked my pi4 and the gpu fried

[glacial wigeon]

how did you diagnose it as a fried gpu?

[whole plover]

the fact it would only 2d without artifacts and that pixel dekstop had artifacts whatever the output. i can't confirm as is the usual case for me but feel quite strongly about it

[glacial wigeon]

ah, that sounds like the 3d core is malfunctioning

the 2d core is a seperate block, and hw encode/decode is yet another block

there are multiple clusters of cpu cores in the 3d block, and it is possible to disable them

[whole plover]

good knowledge, that's @glacial wigeon

[jagged citrus]

Yes very @glacial wigeon

[dusty citrus]

Finally it's almost October... And feels like july
27C T_T

[jagged citrus]

Haha lol cry about it + skill issue + L /s
its spring in my country and i hate it soooooo much

Here in santiago, during summer we sometimes get 27°c ~ 35°c. And my house has very poor ventilation

Chile is getting hot AF

huh maybe that killed the zero 2w /s

[patent hemlock]

you said you rebooted - was that a hard (power cycle) or soft reboot? if it was a hard reboot, the heat may have gotten to it because it requires more power in the boot cycle than it would at idle

[jagged citrus]

I did a sudo reboot, im guessing thats a soft reboot

[patent hemlock]

this really seems a bit strange to me, but my electronics/electrical-fu is still in the elementary stage

[umbral phoenix]

the bane of my hobby existence is that I do many things so infrequently that I have to re-learn most of them each time

[ebon dew]

this is why having a code snippets repo or gist is a good idea.

i have one just for flashing esp boards using esptool. infrequently yes but invaluable for making the process so much faster and easier when I left myself quick instructions to look back on.

[jagged citrus]

If it wasnt for this humongous cable id have a true mini pc😔

[jagged citrus]

Save them, hoard as much code and repos as possible THE MORE THE BETTER

[ebon dew]

one benefit to using adafruit displays with eyespi, you can make them really compact.

[jagged citrus]

Ye an spi display would be quite compact

I remember, someone already made a rpi driver for spi displays, maybe i could tweak it to work on my bananer pi

But i need to get a spi display for that

[ebon dew]

https://www.adafruit.com/product/5783

hmm not sure if that's hdmi though. doesn't seem to an eyespi to hdmi module. not even sure if that's possible.

[jagged citrus]

Wait what are we talking about?

Uhhh screen wire too big eyespi compect me use

Me want eyespi display

Aha!

https://www.adafruit.com/product/2090

This could werk

[jagged citrus]

I confused the eyespi display with the spi display

[jagged citrus]

measured it, 5v line werking and 3.3v line working correctly as well

but i think its shorted maybe? if i probe the 3.3v line and the gnd line and use the continuity tool in my multimeter detects it and says "611", which im guessing are milivolts, so im not sure if thats part of the power management circuitry like a diode

hmmm, maybe the power chip is dead?

you know what, im going to try to power it from the gpio

[glacial wigeon]

measuring the power rails in ohms mode wont give you much

it can only really be measured in volts mode

[jagged citrus]

but thats what i did

i got 3.3v on the 3.3v line

[glacial wigeon]

then the power regulator is working fine

[jagged citrus]

ok

[glacial wigeon]

double-check the usb thing, plug it into a computer, using the data port, and no SD card

[jagged citrus]

just did it

nothing

[glacial wigeon]

can you post a photo of the board, both sides?

[jagged citrus]

Here

@glacial wigeon

does it have something like a boot eeprom? i believe only the pi 4 has one

[glacial wigeon]

the zero doesnt have one

looks perfectly intact to me, no idea why it would be dead

[raw jasper]

I wonder whether the SD card reader has mechanically failed...

[glacial wigeon]

if it had, the SoC would still show up over usb

[raw jasper]

ok. I did not read scrollback

[jagged citrus]

its just dead

it died of death

[tight copper]

is frequency by bartlebeats vynl being discontinued?

it is on sale for $3

[tight copper]

I thought you had to use the micro usb closest to the camera connector

[glacial wigeon]

that one is cleary labeled power in

it cant do data

[tight copper]

oh

thx

[tardy badger]

News article: “the super continent in the future will be too hot for humans to live on”
Me: “has new anxiety for thing that will absolutely have no impact on his actual life”

Brains are great lol

https://tenor.com/view/achievement-unlocked-gif-27073940

[dusk flax]

You should read the new "Moonfal series" by James Rollins. Not really the same but fun...

[half sun]

I wonder if 38 awg wire is good for data transfer?

[ember token]

Over how long of a distance?

What kind of data transfer?

[half sun]

Basically Arduino i2c/serial, and about less than 6 inches

[ember token]

That should probably be fine

[half sun]

Ok

[ebon dew]

tube on the back of the washing machine popped off. did some laundry, went to the workshop, and came back to a flooded house.

see now, a washing machine doesn't stop filling until it's filled. so if the hose comes off it'll just keep going and going forever.

so that's been my night

the funny part is i had a plumber come today to check out plumbing and in the process moved the washing machine to see behind it just enough to loosen that hose.

and now i have what is essentially flood damage.

[raw jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/pangea-gif-25171277

(idk, I found this GIF for "pangea" and thought it was pretty funny)

[tardy badger]

Being in Florida, do you even get coverage insurance wise to cover that? I know flood insurance is another federally administered program. But do you have any coverage that covers situations like this?

From what I’ve read home insurance is kind of a crapshoot in Florida right now

it’s that way in many states, but Florida being relevant to where you are

[ebon dew]

trying to get flood insurance in FL is like trying to get health insurance as a stuntman..

might get wind and rain but flood especially if you're in a plains area is near impossible you're on your own.

i never even considered flood damage from a washing machine 😦

[valid spoke]

It's impossible

I have been having the crappiest time with insurance

[ebon dew]

and coincidentally, in the oddest stroke of luck i have an inspector for home insurance coming here friday... which is why i called the plumber to fix the plumbing in the first place.

[valid spoke]

Biggest issue for everyone in Florida right now I think

[ebon dew]

and the plumbing issue is finally fixed, tree was cut down, root intrusion gone. everything works right... and now this.

https://tenor.com/view/walking-water-puddle-splash-wet-shoes-he-my-brother-gif-15829751

what it's like walking in my house right now. have an emergency crew here with a huge wet vac doing their thing.

[valid spoke]

Sorry to hear that boss

Water is a fickle mistress

[ebon dew]

Welp they did a better job in 1 hour than I could have in 5. What a huge load off my shoulders. 😮‍💨 All the floors are dry and clean. It's kind of amazing. I'd love to give them a glowing endorsement, maybe on yelp or google reviews. What a night.

[edgy schooner]

315mhz jammer

[edgy schooner]

My parents have been having issues too they're in central Florida but did just get a great rebate on hurricane proof windows. They got everything replaced with 3 pane argon infused coated glass. Good for gunshots, fly debris, and what have you. If you spend $20k+ they kick back $13k

[whole plover]

Hope the flood damage isn't too much @ebon dew

I've got a hole in shared stairs which the landlord don't repair and a hole in the false ceiling within my flat. So I was invaded by a wasps nest in the attic yesterday

Landlord is coming today today to tell me how special they are and do nothing at the same time. It's a particular skill

There's also rats in the building

[solid quiver]

I had the black pcb Bluetooth audio receiver it worked perfectly, it had a name of vhm 314, but i have damaged the board and i couldn't find the same, but in online or local shop red varient is available, but according to AliExpress red is bt 4.1 and black is bt 5.0, when i asked some sellers they said both are 5.0, all of them has jl branded chips and when i Googled about the chip i had on my black pcb it showed me image of a red pcb one, if both of them are 4.1 then should i go with mh m28 which says bt 4.2?

[late fulcrum]

I'm guessing chips made by JieLi Tech https://www.zh-jieli.com/

[jagged citrus]

[ With chinese, bit crushed female voice ] **欢迎 BLUETOOTH MODE .... [ beep ] BLUETOOTH CONNECTED **

[jagged citrus]

Ugh, those guys are icky, they mass produce ASIC chips for cheap electronic products, with very little documentation of course

I have a wifi camera that stopped working and wanted to troubleshoot it but guess what, jieli made the main chip.

[late fulcrum]

It turns out to be a good business model, but bad for consumers

[jagged citrus]

True

[raw jasper]

Is there a diff/merge tool with the ability to keep notes beside the diff?

[patent hemlock]

if you're talking about git, there are "tags" which you can mark a repo at a certain point in time

[raw jasper]

Nah, I'd be more interested in comparing two forks of the same codebase

(kept in unrelated VCSes)

[patent hemlock]

believe it or not, i've liked P4Merge for visual stuff (https://www.perforce.com/products/helix-core-apps/merge-diff-tool-p4merge)

i think it will work on "raw" file systems...

on a different note, has anyone in the US ordered from Pimoroni -- how the bleep am I supposed to know when/if my order is going to arrive? ("If you selected a method that [which we weren't going to tell you about when you select] has tracking, you will see your tracking number below" (which i obviously don't have one)

😠

[stuck moth]

I have. The tracking number was in an email starting with "A shipment from order"

it took a week to seattle

via royal mail

most of the time I order their stuff from digikey

[patent hemlock]

well, a week isn't that bad, but dang! -- yeah, digi key from now on for sure

[raw jasper]

Problem is, it has a license agreement that has an audit provision (!) and requires a valid phone number for download (!!)

[patent hemlock]

well that sucks

i'd just google and try, honestly

oh, wait 🤦 --- most IDE's have compare functions built in

[raw jasper]

I can also use vimdiff

Which is, you know, the old reliable

:P

I just wanted a notes function that I could save with the diff, but I guess a pane in vim will do ;)

[patent hemlock]

i actually try to use the newer "stuff" because that's what the kewl kids do 😏

[raw jasper]

Using new stuff is a good idea

It keeps your brain and professional skills sharp

The web dev people heard that and cranked it up to 11 😆

[patent hemlock]

🤣

[proven geode]

In @night crescent history: 14 years ago today, Ladyada shares the Bedazzler project. “Our first open source Homeland Security non-lethal weapon project - The "THE BEDAZZLER: A Do-it-yourself Handheld LED-Incapacitator."

(And yes, my calendar is geeky like that.)

https://learn.adafruit.com/bedazzler/overview

[sturdy pine]

My order arrived 2 days earlier then the estimate. 🎨 🧑‍🎨

[night crescent]

WE ARE LIVE! SHOW AND TELL! https://youtu.be/fIXGEP-yMYM

[jagged citrus]

Mmm yes tiny compooter

[night crescent]

WE ARE LIVE! ASK AN ENGINEER! https://youtu.be/WyAyq5KV460

10% discount code, code is: qualiaesp http://www.adafruit.com ends at midnight NYC time

[jagged citrus]

RASPBERRY PI 5??!?!?! DAAAAAAMN

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-5/

2.4 ghz quad core

ZAMN!

[tardy badger]

RIP Michael Gambon aka Dumbledore 🥲

[glad ruin]

we are offering a $12 USB-C power adapter which supports a 5V, 5A (25W) operating mode. If the Raspberry Pi 5 firmware detects this supply, it increases the USB current limit to 1.6A

[patent hemlock]

whaaaaaat?

[worthy magnet]

PD be like moment

[jagged citrus]

Wake up babe! Time to buy another $20 dollar usb power supply specifically designed for the pi 5 and nothing else /s

[glad ruin]

You say that sarcastically, I'm saying it seriously. This is the reason I never got a Pi 4. And now I won't be getting a 5.

[jagged citrus]

I was going to reply but

What is that?

Wha happun

[jagged citrus]

In 2019 i ended up buying the power supply for the pi 4 because i back then i didnt have any usb type c device or a 15w usb wall adapter, if i remember correctly 2019 pi 4's had an issue with the power supply so it only worked with the official one

[glad ruin]

Yeah, but this is much worse. They very deliberately designed it to require their high power supply. Yes, you can override it, but that's beside the point.

[jagged citrus]

Hmmm, im now interested in its power efficiency, 25w is quite a lot, and considering that one of the products advertised along it is a rather chunky heatsink cooler

[glad ruin]

Low.

[jagged citrus]

One thing that bothers me a bit is that they changed the ports layout again, so its incompatible with previous pi 4 cases

Yaaaay!

more plastic

[glad ruin]

From what I've heard, this thing is pretty much going to need a metal case.

[jagged citrus]

Like the argon neo

[glad ruin]

They're basically building a NUC at this point.

[late fulcrum]

But with a decent CPU and architecture

[glad ruin]

Architecture, yes. CPU maybe not so much.

[late fulcrum]

ARM >>> X86

[glad ruin]

Yes, but I feel like they're creating a "solution" in search of a problem.

The power draw is too high for an SBC, and it doesn't have the power design needed to make it a full mini PC.

[late fulcrum]

Yeah, it's kind of a niche use case. I could see using it instead of a Dell Edge to do stuff like talk to PLCs

[glad ruin]

... but a Pi 3B+ should be able to do that.

[late fulcrum]

Heh, that was my original pitch. Currently we're looking at some of the embeddedTS offerings, which are pretty much ideal for this use case

https://www.embeddedts.com/products if you're curious

[glad ruin]

Personally, if I'm going to run an SBC, it's pretty much always going to be headless. I would prefer more/better I/O to having display outputs.

[late fulcrum]

Most of my Pi boards are wrapped up in boxes doing various things. All headless (although a few have front panels)

[glad ruin]

Yeah, but you don't need a phone GPU to render a little front panel interface.

Don't get me wrong, there are uses for a powerful GPU on an SBC, but I think they need to split the product line and have an intermediate level.

[late fulcrum]

Nah, I'd like to use that for ML acceleration, but last I heard, that isn't supported

I do quite like this idea I saw on the AdaFruit learn site https://cdn-learn.adafruit.com/assets/assets/000/028/775/original/raspberry_pi_zero_iso_demo_3A_ORIG.jpg?1448520626

[glad ruin]

Like I said, in the current state RPF has created a solution in search of a problem.

[blissful roost]

Ohh, new Pi looks like fun. 😁👍

I think I'll wait until October payday, but.. yeah, very nice. 😁

[glad ruin]

With a very serious design flaw.

[late fulcrum]

I'm not sure if the firmware finagling (if that's what you're referring to) is something I'd consider a "design flow" as much as intentional.

[glad ruin]

The design flaw is the fact that it even tries to draw 5A at 5V in the first place.

[blissful roost]

Ohh... Big meh.

[thick wind]

Yeah, unless the price is nothing short of a miracle, I’m seeing myself moving away from raspberry SBC’s.

Big yikes. Where’s the PD when you need it?

[glad ruin]

Sounds like they've upped the price.

[patent hemlock]

libre boards are starting to look really good...

anyone use one?

[blissful roost]

I'm definitely getting one of the 8GB models.

It's that or a Pi400.

[jagged citrus]

Ehhh depends on the use case, personally i like powerful sbc's but if youre going to use it on some headless iot project its completely unnecesary

I personally dont use my sbc's for iot or electronics and instead i use them as mini computers for my little linux projects

[glad ruin]

... and if I'm going to do something compute-heavy I'm not going to be using an SBC.

[jagged citrus]

Well, i mean, yeah but, uh, idk

i like the idea of pushing these small computers to their limits with games and such even if its completely pointless

[jagged citrus]

Ive seen sbc's on aliexpress with that purpose, sort of. They dont have video output and connect directly to a breadbord, like the milk-v duo and the licheepi zero. But considering my previous experiences with risc-v and sipeed i dont recommend them

[glad ruin]

Yeah I don't trust anything on AliExpress.

[jagged citrus]

I do trust aliexpress, except those things

I avoid chinese sbc's and mcus with little documentation like the plague

[glad ruin]

I want to know who I'm actually buying something from, and have access to detailed documentation.

[jagged citrus]

I got the error again

Hmm let me see

Aha

It filters nasty words

Why does it say all that instead of "oopsie you said a bad word"

Anyways, my only problem with international buying (amazon, aliexpress, etc) is the shipping fee and shipping time

Im a very lazy person, but im more impatient than lazy so if i can buy it in my city locally i just get up and walk there

Walking saves money and time 😎

[jagged citrus]

But we know who is the seller, its john aliexpress of course

[raw jasper]

Sadly, it's not really ARM, it's videocore with an ARM peripheral; To the end user, it's ARM, but, from what I've understood from what @glacial wigeon has described, it's a little cursed

[patent hemlock]

my primary interest in one of these things would actually be "desktop replacement/backup" -- although i already have a T440s not doing anything 😏

[glacial wigeon]

from what ive hard from the libcamera guys, the firmware had been massively culled

the entire VPU firmware now lives in the SPI flash chip

so there are no more blobs needed on the SD, when booting

wifi still needs them though

[whole plover]

I think they hedged their bets and we will be seeing an quicker release of a pi 5b or 6 sooner than later. I think they'll bump the specs also. This came out of nowhere blogs have been writing for months that it wouldn't be u til 24 until a pi5 and then it just dropped

They're quite vague about power on gpio I read Tom's hardware and I think he said just drop 5v on the 5v pins and u r good to go.

But they do have a power management chip I suppose that all feeds into this 5v 5a thing, and when power off it still draws 1.5watts or something but with software u can disable a lot lowering it's sleep state to 0.5watts

[glacial wigeon]

"This came out of nowhere"
somebody posted a youtube video a day before it came out, with leaked specs

[whole plover]

Yeh but for the months immediately before the word was we would have to wait. Maybe I missed the memo but it's really surprised me

And available basically in a few days time

It seemed like they were focussing on still shipping pi4 for the rest of the year at least

[jagged citrus]

This keeps appearing for me

My discord app is haunted

[patent hemlock]

"have you tried turning it off and back on again?"

actually just a quick re-install might do the trick -- had to do that on linux a couple of days ago

[raw jasper]

Or clear cache and stuff

[jagged citrus]

Good idea, old reliable "turn it off and on again"

[olive dome]

The thing is, they are using PD and it is correctly using it, it just the 5A on 5V isn't what most PD power supply will support (Even if the power HW can supports it).

[olive dome]

One step at a time! leave the Videocores behind!

[thick wind]

Pi 5 supports the higher voltages of PD? I don’t count usb 3 current negotiation on 5v only as PD compatible.

[olive dome]

The thing is, high voltage != USB PD

[glad ruin]

Still is out of spec.

[olive dome]

That is what typical implmentation will be

[glad ruin]

And actually getting 5V at the pi is going to be tough without feedback.

[glacial wigeon]

and at 5a, your going to have far greater losses

one weird thing i noticed, is that the new PD PSU, has support for higher voltages

[olive dome]

So let me use one example, for any thing >3A, you need a cable with emark that stated it can handles it.
This is USB PD

[glad ruin]

It is an incredibly poor design decision. I was disappointed with the power design on the Pi 4. This is just stupid.

[olive dome]

Here is the spec: https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-power-delivery

higher Amp != higher loss, your DC-DC operating/load point is the key

[glad ruin]

The emark is literally just a little chip that says "hey, I can handle more power". It does not ensure 5V will be delivered to the endpoint. And that's a serious issue for the Pi.

[olive dome]

That is cable manufacture's job

and what certification do

[whole plover]

i'm just increasing my air flow

[glad ruin]

Uhh... yeah it is. P = I²R. With R being the resistance of the cable, that means the power dissipated in the cable is directly proportional to the square of the current.

[olive dome]

I'll show you where the spec states about those power profiles

[olive dome]

It does not matter on the DC-DC compoents itself, as the heat is on the cable not the board

[glacial wigeon]

but there is voltage drop due to producing that heat

[olive dome]

Also, have you tried any 5A USB-C power? like a notebook? You can see it is just fine

[glacial wigeon]

if the PSU produces 5v, and you loose 1v into cable heating, then the pi only gets 4v

[olive dome]

Notebooks using that 20V 5A for quite some time now, I never seen the voltage drop 1V

[glacial wigeon]

notebooks solve that, by accepting a higher voltage, so 1v of loss is a smaller percentage
and having a DC-DC to buck/boost it to the required voltages

[glad ruin]

As far as DC-DC conversion is concerned, the Pi doesn't really have that on the 5V rail. It just has a few support/protection components such as a fuse. The trouble is that 5V is an extremely tight margin for the dropout of their 3.3V regulator.

[olive dome]

The thing is, it never reaches 1V or anything closer, get a USB-C power gauge with resistance measurement you will see how much it can handle

[glacial wigeon]

the key thing they are missing, is the ability to regulate the 5v on the board

[glacial wigeon]

1v is just an example number, it can fail with less drop

[glad ruin]

And that 20V is immediately taken and converted to whatever other voltages they need through a bunch of DC-DC converters running in parallel. There's an entire power distribution network designed to deliver power everywhere it is needed. The CPU has additional converters in very close proximity, and the CPU+chipset are capable of directly controlling those converters in order to handle upcoming power spikes.

The Pi has none of that. The least we can ask for is onboard regulation for the 5V rail.

Regardless, the pi-vs-laptop comparison proves the point. The reason they use 20V in the first place is because going lower introduces too much loss due to the currents.

If you ask me, the 12V common in desktop systems and for powering GPUs is also too low. They should have gone to 24V a decade ago. Server boards have been running on 24 and 48V for years now.

[olive dome]

The point is - you can see how much voltage drop it is on the cable with those 20V 5A power, it is not that bad with a proper cable

[glacial wigeon]

yeah, ive had wildly different results, depending on what cable i use

[olive dome]

This is why USB certify the cables

[glacial wigeon]

but how do you know if a cable is properly certified?

[olive dome]

No it does not, the 20V is for battery charging, and other system uses the battery rail

[glad ruin]

To be clear, it's entirely possible to deliver 5V at 5A even through a very long cable. But, and this is a big but, you need to have additional sense lines to measure the voltage at the load. This feature is pretty much only available on higher end benchtop supplies and USB-PD doesn't support feedback.

[olive dome]

https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13/blob/main/Mainboard/Mainboard_Interfaces_Schematic_11th_Gen.pdf

Please see a example of how notebooks power arch works

[glad ruin]

If that's the case why can you still power most laptops with the battery removed? They do both.

[olive dome]

You will be surprised that framework have to specifically callout they support no battery boot.

[olive dome]

Buy it from a reliable source?

[glad ruin]

See that 17.6V rail? That's what they are converting the 20V input to. It's an intermediate voltage, which is what I expect in an architecture like that. At 5V the pi doesn't have enough headroom to implement that intermediate stage.

[glad ruin]

No amount of certification can overcome the reality of physics.

[olive dome]

That is your battery voltage rail

i.e it is a floating voltage depending on your battery voltage

[olive dome]

Specifically, this is not the case at all

[glad ruin]

The ISL9241 includes the buck/boost converter to get that voltage.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/sds/isl9241-short-form-datasheet?r=507701

[olive dome]

because it is a battery charger?

[glad ruin]

And it can do so without the battery.

[glad ruin]

I just linked the summary datasheet for it. It's a buck-boost converter with battery charging capabilities.

[olive dome]

again, I quote:
"that 20V is immediately taken and converted to whatever other voltages they need through a bunch of DC-DC converters running in parallel."

Is not the case, they pump it in to the charger to battery voltage, and you system uses that battery rail for those systems DC-DC

It is like saying a TP4057 used as a LDO, sure, but it is not it is designed to

[glad ruin]

Ok, that part was incorrect. But it doesn't undermine my point.

[olive dome]

The concept itself is wrong, because notebooks are arch with the battery power first

Modern notebooks have high transient power load requirements

[glad ruin]

... which is why they use the high voltage rail and regulate closer to the load

[olive dome]

you might not able to get the power you need all by the charger

I'm talking about even the wattage is not enough, if your source is 65W, and your transient is 100W, high voltage won't help

That is why framework has to call out they supports boot without battery

Notebooks rely on battery to pump those crazy high current because Intel ask them to.

[glad ruin]

In that case I hope they at least have some large capacitor banks.

Also, having formerly worked at Intel, I will be the first to say not to use them as an example for good design.

[olive dome]

LOL no
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9900k-i7-9700k-i5-9600k-review/21

large capacitor banks won't do because that causes more problems, how are you going to change the CPU voltage fast enough then?

[glad ruin]

That's where the throttling comes in, and it is supposed to be managed by the PCH (chipset).

[olive dome]

At least this is what the notebook industry lands on

[olive dome]

Also nope, it is not fast enough

Also, PL3 is taking the battery rail as advantage, previously they have to throttling lower power

[glad ruin]

... and that is not a risk I would have taken if I were designing it.

[hasty wedge]

pre-ordered Pi 5 from pihut!

[olive dome]

That's what you need when 10nm can't release on time

[hasty wedge]

as much as I hate Broadcom and their closed source craps

I have to get a pi 5

[jagged citrus]

@glad ruin another victim

[olive dome]

Also me, but from sparkfun, though I'm still waiting for Adafruit to order another one

[glad ruin]

And that mentality is one of the reasons I left Intel.

[jagged citrus]

wait you worked on intel? cool

[hasty wedge]

Only if pi can design their own CPU silicon

[olive dome]

techincally RP1 is the one step leaving broadcom

[hasty wedge]

and have a "de-Broadcomed" Pi 6

[olive dome]

15 millon R&D isn't that bad

[hasty wedge]

with open source bootloader and firmware

[glad ruin]

it was not a good experience. Can't really go into details here.

[jagged citrus]

ah well

[hasty wedge]

When buying for router I tends to avoid Broadcom garbage as much as possible

because Broadcom = no open source driver = landwaste

[olive dome]

same, I want openwrt