general-chat

[rapid geode]

instant water heaters are not really viable here anyway

incoming water is too cold

near zero c

[tardy badger]

you just need a line preheater is all

what's another 25A

[sharp nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-eating-cone-of-shame-chauncy-memphis-gif-10174774

this is what we all need

its like Im sorry my darling, i anticipate traveling away quickly

[tardy badger]

This is a fascinating video https://youtu.be/oI_X2cMHNe0

Thankfully my physics coursework taught me what is explained here.

[rapid geode]

electroboom did a companion vido to this. its neat.

its one of those thing that on paper you kinda go "hmm" but to see it done in semi practically is neat

electroboom used 1000 ft of ethernet cable

left in the box

haha

[cunning frost]

That happened to be one of his more contentious videos because he kinda didn't clarify a key point that got people posting companion 1000ft/m cable experiments like these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vrhk5OjBP8

[rapid geode]

i like when the science guys fight though, cause you get lots of conversation and clarity

with people like electroboom who are better are explaining details clearly. vs veritasium giving more of a big picture explanation

[azure grove]

Hi! I want to ask something... I'm doing a PowerPoint about Ada Lovelace for my English class and need help - what important information should I include in it?

[dusty citrus]

Tbh I did not understand that one
I always thought that the waves outside the wire, were a byproduct of electrons being pushed in the wire

[tardy badger]

Hi, please don’t ping the moderators. I’m not sure the process for selecting moderators, but I’m am pretty sure this is not how it’s done.

I know at least from the official community helpers process, you have to be specifically asked after demonstrating for a long time you are representing the discord and Adafruit well, and taking the community’s interest in hand in how you interact.

[wanton thistle]

Id include history, maybe some of the inventions she made or what she worked on. You could focus on the social aspect and how she effected women everywhere (or how she contributed to the feminist movement in general). Be sure to be factual about this though.

[sharp nexus]

I know its a lot to ask but I need 8 functions in Arduino IDE, an you help me? Memento vivere

[tardy badger]

#help-with-arduino is where you’ll find Arduino help, just to make sure it gets the most exposure. I also suggest clearly stating what you are attempting to do, what code you’ve tried so far, any errors you’ve received when trying to build or run your code, etc..

Also just on the topic of GIFs, just to keep the conversation uncluttered you should try to limit them.

[sharp nexus]

@tardy badger I am doing it over here as have no other help, I'll support Adafruit straight away as I respect the brand highly. You HAVE HELPED me. Thank you

[frigid tiger]

She has a gpu named after her

very overpriced gpu

[raw jasper]

I think it's a GPU architecture, not just a GPU

[lunar trench]

oh my... imagine having to pay 1,699 euros for just 5 nfc readers

[crystal ore]

Decimal points, how do they work?!

[ebon dew]

https://tenor.com/view/anaguerra-gif-18857794

[blissful roost]

Not like this... Lol

[azure grove]

While working on the PowerPoint, I make notes for myself to know what to say... but the style of writing them😅

[grand wing]

Question for y’all. How do y’all go about mounting your circuits to your projects? I have a small QT Py and I’m trying to figure out how to put it inside this WLED lamp I’m making. No such thing as mounting brackets 😜 So how do y’all do that with your small circuits?

[crystal ore]

Hot glue! 😁

[late fulcrum]

Edge mount clips can help

[grand wing]

Hot glue? 😂 I’d imagine it would potentially melt off.
I’ll look into edge mount clips, thanks

[tardy badger]

Modeling hard

[rapid geode]

add some fillets. then it will be soft

[tardy badger]

Magnetic PCB Panel holders

[rapid geode]

is that to hold stensils?

[tardy badger]

Hold the PCBs in place on my stencil jig which holds the stencils

I’m moving to framed stencils and I got tired or ripping tape up and putting new down just for new stencils

[raw jasper]

Watch as skerr turns his house into an assembly line :P

Jokes aside, it's nice to see you making progress

[tardy badger]

Lol

I used to make tons of boards

Just getting back into the groove

[hasty quarry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/885345167828217928/1086808985610489887/image0.jpg

My first Fourier series

Big day

[tardy badger]

Nice

[raw jasper]

Nice! Now implement it in a programming language

[hasty quarry]

How could I apply this

I learned how to compute them purely out of interest, it's a fascinating thing to be able to do that

But isn't a Fourier transform much more useful? I don't know what a Fourier series is great for other than representing jump-discontinuous functions in a continuous way

[raw jasper]

Oh, there are tons of applications. For one, finding the frequencies in a signal

[hasty quarry]

But that's a Fourier transform, precisely

[raw jasper]

Also, filtering (only keeping desired signals by discarding unwanted frequency bins and computing the inverse)

But sometimes, even the frequencies themselves can be useful

For example, in EEG https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4045570/

https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/44955/why-is-fast-fourier-transform-applied-to-raw-eeg-data

[hasty quarry]

Oh wait. Is a Fourier transform a kind of extension of the idea of a Fourier series then?

I know what the transform is for in terms of signal and frequency processing, but don't really know of the connection to Fourier series

[raw jasper]

Yah

You... kinda compute a fourier series for your signal. In.. the discrete sense of things

The FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) essentially is an optimized way to computing the Discrete Fourier Transform

If you think of it, signals are functions of time too, aren't they?

[hasty quarry]

Yes

[tardy badger]

You should learn about multidimensional DSP

2D DFTs are lots of fun

[raw jasper]

Indeed, I probably should, when that day comes

:P

[tardy badger]

Lol

[raw jasper]

I mean, I'm almost sure I'll eventually have to. Just give it a few years

[tardy badger]

I’ve kind of learned it

[raw jasper]

You also enrolled in a post-graduate program that's all about the stuff

[vivid turret]

How important is it to get "decent" temperature control on a soldering iron?
I have a very basic soldering iron. Just wondering if I should upgrade mine.

[cunning frost]

Temperature control doesn't have to be anything special as long as it's there and you have a good feel of its workable temperature range. All you really need is to get hot enough to melt solder without damaging components or cooling off too quickly. Especially for the cheap irons where it's kinda inaccurate as it may be measuring that temp a little farther from the tip, hence a bit cooler than it should.

[vivid turret]

I sort of found a sweet spot on my dial, but I'm worried that it might be too hot. I try my best to keep contact as short as feasible.

I've got a hot plate. I really need to move to a quicker prototyping cycle where I design custom PCBs.

(then I wouldn't need to worry so much about soldering things by hand)

[wanton thistle]

that moment when you design something but find out your programmer doesnt support the chip you bought 🤡

I dont want to shell out $70 for a Pickit 4. I really dislike microchip for "version locking" PICs to programmers.

adafruit is typing 😮

[night crescent]

WE ARE LIVE! The Desk of Ladyada - RP2040 Bones Boards Aplenty! https://youtu.be/VbZQR-9xfi8

[late fulcrum]

For extra fun, implement it in a circuit!

[late fulcrum]

That nonsense was the last straw for me and PIC, at which point I switched to AVR

[wanton thistle]

🤡 yeap so now I have to decide "do I see what I have in stock and use that or upgrade?" I chose this one specifically because Ive been buying better stuff with more advanced peripherals (12 bit ADC, multiple PWM mostly). Dont need something advanced if all Im doing is sending values over USART from switches

I'll probably end up seeing what I have in stock.

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-waves-hi-gif-25928708

Hewwo peeps

I alive

[tardy badger]

https://tenor.com/view/awake-woke-elmo-i-has-awoken-wake-gif-16298489

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/aidan-chaos-chat-aidan-is-here-boom-gif-26379135

But first, coffee

[tardy badger]

I’m two cups deep

[delicate stream]

lol

I have only consumed water this morning

[tardy badger]

😬

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/thirsty-water-fall-gif-16327653

[tardy badger]

water is good, but coffee saves lives

[delicate stream]

Lol

Actually, do I have any creamer left...

Unrelated, ChatGPT agrees that coffee is bean juice

[tardy badger]

though it's technically seed juice

it's extracted from seeds, so I guess it's an essential oil xD

[delicate stream]

Beans is seeds

Seeds is beens

Beens is life]

https://tenor.com/view/shark-puppet-baked-beans-beans-eating-hungry-gif-16962563

[tardy badger]

okay, let me rephrase. coffee "beans" are techically pits

since they come from what are referred to as "cherries" which apparently also taste interesting

[delicate stream]

What if avocado pit coffee

[tardy badger]

according to google: "Usually, it (coffee cherries) is described to have a sweet flavor similar to fruit, berries, hibiscus, or even tobacco"

[delicate stream]

gasp ChatGPT thinks chaos is harmful, how rood

[tardy badger]

on the note of "tobacco," when i was in basic training we would take the instant coffee in our MREs and roll a bit in a single ply of napkin and put it in our lip like chewing tobacco lol...

[glossy knoll]

Huh, looks like it has learned how to lie

[delicate stream]

eww XD

[tardy badger]

you do anything you can to stay awake during field exercises

it was so easy to fall asleep because you were sleep deprived

[delicate stream]

I just vibrate in place to stay awake... but coffee wouldn't help me

[tardy badger]

lol

we were basically taking in caffeine sublingually

[delicate stream]

Time-delayed release

[tardy badger]

in a way, yeah

it worked pretty well to get a quick pick me up

[delicate stream]

I am so sleepy

ChatGPT now thinks I'm Markiplier

This was unintentional

It is VERY bad at references

[dusty citrus]

I'm sorry anyone knows a quick free pdf editor?
Inkscape, libreoffice as suggested by online searches are annoying
Random programs online, are bloatwares meant to make you pay for stuff

[tardy badger]

if you had a mac, it has a built in PDF editor

[dusty citrus]

Windows

[tardy badger]

you might be able to download a free trial of adobe acrobat?

[dusty citrus]

Nope

[tardy badger]

maybe Docusign?

If you have dropbox, I think they have a PDF editor

if you have Word, I think you can now convert PDF to .docx files and edit them too

Also.

https://tenor.com/view/daffodils-spring-flowers-happy-spring-garden-nature-gif-16803241

For ye northern hemisphere folks

Happy fall to all you southern hemisphere folks

[thick wind]

I’ve been using sejda in my browser because my company never got me acrobat pro

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/spring-gif-20824137

[rapid geode]

boiing

[delicate stream]

Spring has sprung

But the weather here says still winter

[glossy knoll]

This is somewhat unsettling but I can't stop watching it

[delicate stream]

Yeah, there's something really weird about it...

[spice moss]

https://tenor.com/view/sm-sm-citroen-citroen-gif-21313201

[delicate stream]

lol

[spice moss]

air suspension

[steady dove]

@delicate stream has returned and brought spring!

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/slinky-spring-trippy-gif-8614977

[raw jasper]

New hobby just dropped: Buy expensive finite element analysis software and simulate cursed spring setups

[spice moss]

https://tenor.com/view/spring-i-want-to-believe-jon-snow-gif-11431413

[delicate stream]

I want forever winter

[raw jasper]

I am not looking forward to summer 🙃

[delicate stream]

Summer is death

[tardy badger]

i only like summer because I can grow stuff

[delicate stream]

I can grow stuff all year long... Yay aeroponics!

[tardy badger]

I grow like pumpkins, watermelons, peppers, tomatoes, eggplant, squash, cucumbers, and stuff like that in a raised bed

[spice moss]

you grow mushrooms too?

[raw jasper]

aeroponics is a method of growing plants without soil

Interesting!

[tardy badger]

not really a mushroom person

[delicate stream]

Beds go inside!

[raw jasper]

I knew about aquaponics/hydroponics, but aeroponics is new to me as a term

[spice moss]

hydrophonics and aerophonics

[delicate stream]

Aeroponics isn't nearly as popular as hydroponics... it can be much trickier

[steady dove]

is your cat employee #1? 🙂

[delicate stream]

He's not allowe din the aeroponics bay XD

[steady dove]

poor fella.

[raw jasper]

We need to see your cat!

[steady dove]

cat pictures intensify

[delicate stream]

I've posted in #pet-photos before, lol

[hoary lynx]

Has anyone used python to do any sort of video game automation? I always find it to be a fun project to automatic a PC game. I have done it using autoit but thats very crude. I was wondering in python how you would detect items on a screen

[wise mulch]

Ask me anything!

[crystal ore]

Compose a limerick about Arduinos. 😁

[delicate stream]

Why are we here?

[wise mulch]

Generating...

[wise mulch]

We tried to prototype with Arduino
Unfortunately it wasn’t within what we know
So we failed
And bailed
The project collapsed like a domino

[wise mulch]

Generating..

[old beacon]

what geiger counter kit is arduino circuit python friendly?

[wise mulch]

Discord is a space for interaction and connection

[delicate stream]

Why does anything exist?

[wise mulch]

Generating...

[old beacon]

I want to learn making a geiger counter I was wondering if there is a geiger counter kit that I can code in python? and attach an esp32 in it? I want to learn because I like to research a tokoma and a minicubesat (not build)

[wise mulch]

The Geiger Counter Kit - Radiation Sensor is Arduino circuit python friendly. You may be able to purchase through adafruit.

[old beacon]

link

[wise mulch]

Generating...

[wise mulch]

In Aristotle's Metaphysics, there are four causes of existence or change in nature: the material cause, the formal cause, the efficient cause and the final cause.

[wise mulch]

Generating...

[wise mulch]

Oops! AI-query-bot does not have access to the internet.

[thick wind]

https://adafruit.com/products/483

[old beacon]

@thick wind thanks I will use that one i hope I can code it in aruino

[thick wind]

The kit comes with its own microcontroller built in, but the data is accessible over serial, which should be fairly easy to work with.

There’s also a pulse output if you prefer the lower level of direct access.

[delicate stream]

Don't try to use that kit to tell if your home made reactor is safely shielded or not

[old beacon]

umm

im not building a reactor

[delicate stream]

It does say for educational purposes only XD

I was joking, lol

[old beacon]

i am not building a live takoma reactor...

[delicate stream]

The more you deny, the more suspicious you are :P

[old beacon]

im not even proficient in circuitry and engineering

im too dumb lol

[delicate stream]

Lol, not dumb, just uninformed

You'll be a nuclear physicist in no time

[old beacon]

in the age of Ai and internet access.. i think anyone can.. with effort really.

but not me.. I have other things in mind

[delicate stream]

Don't trust AI... it is dumb

[old beacon]

also do you guys know what module is there available that allows me to make a mouse using py circuitry ?

[tardy badger]

circuitpython HID?

[old beacon]

holdup give me a min

https://www.tindie.com/products/jkicklighter/adns-9800-laser-motion-sensor/

would this work?

[delicate stream]

Ohhh, you meant hardware

[old beacon]

im trying to find something similar that i can program using python.. bc i dont want to break up a mouse and trying to configure each serial

[tardy badger]

you'd likely need to write driver code for anything that doesn't already have support

[old beacon]

ohh god.

[tardy badger]

i'd start with like a microcontroller board and maybe an accelerometer

adafruit sells and has libraries for both

so like a qt py rp2040 and a BNO085

and maybe two buttons for your mouse buttons

[old beacon]

so with this i can create a mouse?

[tardy badger]

yeah, at least something that you can move and click

[delicate stream]

A mouse can really be a lot of things -- you could have buttons for up, down, left, right, up left, up right, down left, down right, as well as the left and right clicks, or you can use wheels, accelerometers... many options

[tardy badger]

use a magnetometer and a small 3D printed wheel with a tiny magnet at one point and make a cool scroll wheel

lots of cool ideas

[old beacon]

i already have. a Adafruit QT Py ESP32-S2 WiFi Dev Board with STEMMA QT

i want to make an IoT mouse

[delicate stream]

That adds a whole layer of difficulty

[tardy badger]

gotcha, an S3 might be better since it has bluetooth. wifi keyboard/mice is probably pretty difficult

[delicate stream]

A question... why an IoT mouse

[old beacon]

i already have the 3 axis.. but i need one for acceleration vector..

@tardy badger so would i still need qt py rp2040 and a BNO085 ?

[tardy badger]

if you already have a qt py, no

I was just suggesting it as it was the first that came to mind

[old beacon]

but the BN0085 has acceleration and rotation though

i mean thats all i need with the qt

right?

to make a mouse?

[tardy badger]

yeah

[old beacon]

been trying to figure this out for 3 days

[tardy badger]

you might want like 2 buttons so you can do left/right click

but those 4 things in general plus some code should be all you need.

[delicate stream]

Are you actually making it IoT, or just Bluetooth?

[tardy badger]

make sure. to get a stemma cable

i'd try just making it USB HID first, then try to do IoT/Bluetooth

[old beacon]

I am making it an IoT, usb mouse

[delicate stream]

Do you have an idea for how internet connectivity will make it more useful, or just because you can?

[tardy badger]

okay, but yeah those 4 things should be the minimum things to make a mouse.

[delicate stream]

And do you mean you'll have the mouse itself on WiFi and talk to another half via WiFi that connects to the computer via USB?

[old beacon]

I am frustrated, thank you for the help guys.. Still not sure.

I will go take a break havent slept for a day

thank you

[delicate stream]

You should sleep! And think about why you want to do IoT; if you don't have a good reason, it might just add unnecessary complexity and frustration

[old beacon]

ps you guys can leave a dm anything will help and i would appreciate it

[old beacon]

thank you

[delicate stream]

No problem :D

[raw jasper]

This is good advice for many things in life, well beyond IoT

[delicate stream]

Mhmm. Very easy to go overboard on many things

[dusty citrus]

question: sheet manufacturing doesn't allow partial cuts in height right?

[tardy badger]

that is going to be manufacture specific.

you'd probably need to reach out to the fab house you're wanting to use and see if they support what you're looking to do.

[wooden schooner]

Is this supposed to mean "so safe that it doesn't catch fire even when you do this"? https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/ee2fbea1-4d9e-4eff-a7c9-221132b94d4c/svn/noco-jump-starters-gb40-1f_1000.jpg

"Safe -- so you don't have to be."

lmao here's one of the reviews for it

[delicate stream]

Why 1kA output I think engine cranking is only 55A

[glossy knoll]

Cold cranking amps are usually in the 100's- a larger engine will easily require 500+ CCA

[delicate stream]

Hmm… where did my brain get 55A

I’m not super into cars XD

[wooden schooner]

thanks for giving me the name of this spec so I could look it up for my car 🙂

[brave copper]

Did any done any pi python code to send nes controller data to the nes console?

What can Pi Pico do? is it a fast booting little computer?

[crystal ore]

It's a microcontroller rather than a full computer, so it's great for low-level, simpler stuff like interfacing to sensors, buttons, LEDs, small displays, etc.

[brave copper]

neat I had something in mind for one try get this Port Testing Cart Nintendo working used in the Factories as the input test needs to pass from the data line pins according to The Cutting Room Floor about this tester cart they used

just need to find a way to send the data it needs from the pico to the console

[steady dove]

@delicate stream 👋

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-wave-hatsune-miku-gif-22384247

[old beacon]

@tardy badger so should just get the ones u recommend for building a mouse?

@tardy badger the BNO085?

[tardy badger]

You can use the qt py you already have, just need 2 buttons, and the bno085

And a stemma qt cable to connect the sensor and qt py

[old beacon]

yeah i alread have 2 stemma switch

@tardy badger so i have this Adafruit DRV2605L Haptic Motor Controller - STEMMA QT / Qwiic PID: 2305$7.951$7.95
Adafruit QT Py ESP32-S2 WiFi Dev Board with STEMMA QTAdafruit QT Py ESP32-S2 WiFi Dev Board with STEMMA QT

i dont have the bno085

if thats all i need and its going to perform as a mouse thanks

[tardy badger]

Not sure you need the haptic motor controller

[old beacon]

wait theres 3 which one do i get @tardy badger

[tardy badger]

Also, no need to ping me every time

I’m active

[old beacon]

ok

but how does it read the movement?

its not laser optical?

[tardy badger]

What the IMU does is tell you about acceleration along axis. You can use the rate of acceleration over time and direction to determine your movement vector to move your mouse cursor

[old beacon]

I see so i can move and use it like a mouse.

[blissful roost]

Is it just me, or are prices on ATX PSUs a bit mad right now?

[glossy knoll]

I was looking for one a few months ago and they did seem high

[blissful roost]

Yeah, seems odd.

[tardy badger]

What are you looking at?

850W or better?

I feel like they’ve been high for like.. the last two years

[crystal ore]

You may be happier with an actual optical mouse sensor rather than an IMU, if that's what you're trying to build. For example: https://www.tindie.com/products/jkicklighter/adns-9800-laser-motion-sensor/

[blissful roost]

I was looking at the Asus TUF 750W.

It was quite a bit cheaper back in October

I'm just thinking ahead, if I get any inheritance from The Unknown Grandmother.

[tardy badger]

I really need a rich uncle who secretly liked me the most but passed away with no one else around on his will to take over his estate

[tardy badger]

$30 wow

I figured it would be more expensive

[tardy badger]

What was it a few months ago?

[crystal ore]

I'm surprised it's available on Tindie at all. Those Avago chips are hard to obtain for hobbyists, was my impression.

[tardy badger]

Yeah.. that is interesting

[blissful roost]

October, £83
Now, £96

[tardy badger]

Maybe inflation is catching up

[blissful roost]

The rest of my price list has mostly reduced since.

32GB Corsair LPX DDR4.
Was, £109.98.
Now, 72.99.

I suppose I should shop around a bit, if I actually get the money.. at least now I have a good impression of cost.

[old beacon]

can i code this in python and attach my esp33 qt?

esp32*

[crystal ore]

I'm not sure if a Python driver is available for that sensor, but it looks like it uses a SPI interface, so it should be generally possible to talk to it, if you're comfortable implementing some of the logic yourself.

[old beacon]

is there one that uses python?

[crystal ore]

I don't know, I'm afraid. It's somewhat of an unusual use case, so it would just be whether someone else happened to have done a similar project and published their code.

[old beacon]

or any mouse that i can just buy and crack it open and

hmm

[crystal ore]

I missed what your original goal was here. Is there something you want your mouse to do that an off-the-shelf Bluetooth one won't? Or is this more of a "I just want to make it myself anyway" project?

[old beacon]

I have a qt esp32 bluetooth wifi.. and i want to make an optical mouse

but i like to encorporate that esp32 qt into it

i could break open a mouse but it would be just gambling, bc i think i will need to also check the serial and the codes may not be in python

but if i get a chip that has an optical sensor like a mouse I can just code it in python and attach my qt in it

someone recommend me this earlier @crystal ore https://www.adafruit.com/product/2472

IMU way but not the same accuracy and feeling as a mouse right?

optical mouse *

[crystal ore]

Yeah, getting X-Y position from an accelerometer can be tricky, as that's a double integration, which means that it's prone to drifting even when it shouldn't be moving, etc. It may be a useful project, though, as it'll teach you a lot even if you end up with a bit of a quirky mouse at the end. 😁

Plus you get full 3D information from the sensor, so you could play with gestures lifting the mouse off the table, tilting it, pointing it at things, etc.

[old beacon]

my qt has time flight

i just need an optical sensor mouse..

just need x and y acceleration

been trying to solve this for 3 days now

[cunning frost]

Off the top of my head, the only "working with documentation" DIY mouse project is the Ploopy mouse, which uses a PMW3360. It uses QMK though (hence C) and I don't see any python driver for it.
https://github.com/ploopyco/mouse

[crystal ore]

You could also consider going old-school, with a roller-ball mouse and optical encoder wheels. 😁

[cunning frost]

Yup. That's the other side of the optical sensor implementation that I see online too since that's more fun. XD

[crystal ore]

If it was good enough for Engelbart...

[old beacon]

guys how about this

https://www.tindie.com/products/jkicklighter/pmw3360-motion-sensor/

python?

[cunning frost]

Yup. That's the one. No python driver.

[old beacon]

sigh is there one that has a python driver?

[cunning frost]

I don't think there is since it's hard enough to find mouse sensors just open to be hacked, and it kind of makes sense because they're currently not as open as keyboards unless you reverse-engineer whatever optical mice you have lying around.

[old beacon]

yeah thats my next route..

which i dont want to go too

[cunning frost]

You probably won't like it but you would have better luck just doing this in Arduino because there are drivers for it.

[old beacon]

Is it bc patent infrigement? logitech companies alike go after people who sells it?

[old beacon]

sigh so IMU right? which arduino u recommend then?

[cunning frost]

No. For the PMW3360. There's an Arduino driver for it.
https://github.com/SunjunKim/PMW3360

Then you can use the Qt py since you can use Arduino for it.

If you want the challenge, you can probably port this to python. The driver code doesn't look all that bad but it won't be painless.

[old beacon]

is this the same one?

[cunning frost]

Yup. The mouse uses the same sensor.

[old beacon]

So i can just take it apart instead of getting.. the chip directly from them aamazon sells it for 15 dola

would i be able to code it in py though?

[cunning frost]

It won't be in breakout form though so you should be comfortable soldering.

[old beacon]

okay ill get this one 3360 optical sensor if its in arduino

and if i can attach my esp32 qt in it too

[cunning frost]

Yeah. Give it a shot. Always good to have projects that kinda force you to use different tools. If it's not in python, it likely exists in Arduino C and vice versa.

[old beacon]

so its not coded in py.. if not wont i just need to just connect to the serial ? and code it in py?

i mean my esp32 qt have a py driver..

if im attaching it then would i be able to code it in py?

[cunning frost]

The thing is, you need a driver to communicate with the sensor. It doesn't exist in python yet, but you can use the Arduino code as a reference to build your own. It's not a trivial thing though since you need to know both languages and how drivers work in general to pull it off properly.

[old beacon]

@cunning frost i think that 3360 is code in C or C++ low level. i dont know those language

[cunning frost]

It is in C/C++, which can be a barrier for a lot of folks.

But since there is a driver available in that language, you can use it if you become comfortable enough to code in that language.

[old beacon]

@cunning frost I guess theres no way to get an optical sensor with a py driver..

well I tried

[tardy badger]

It’s possible, it will take a bit of work to port code to circuitpython is what I believe is trying to be said.

I sometimes forget how fun something as simple as a set of string magnets can be. Like using two neodymium magnets as a fidget spinner. Good stuff

[ebon dew]

i'm not even sure how optical sensors for mice work. most of the newest ones use lasers.

you could use a rapsberry pi camera but i have a feeling that would make for a horrible optical sensor for a mouse.

[tardy badger]

They have tiny cameras that use the laser to track movement

[ebon dew]

they're probably really specialized

[tardy badger]

That’s the very high level description of how they work

[ebon dew]

Jepler would probably be the right person to ask. He's our resident mouse guru.

[tardy badger]

I know how they work, I was just trying to be brief

[ebon dew]

I'm not sure if he's done an optical or laser mouse yet though?

Mostly legacy ball mice with all kinds of different x/y movement schemes. He's gotten really good at resurrecting legacy keyboards and mice.

Didn't someone make a macropad mouse?

I can't find it. 😦

[delicate stream]

I think the exact how of optical mouse sensors work is closed knowledge... but essentially it's a tiny camera, and takes pictures really quick to compare them, and can determine which direction and by how much it shifted in a given time

And then they spit the data out

[dusty citrus]

Anyone can suggest me a cheap cnc alluminium (or similar) service that ships to Europe?
The part is flat so a 3 axis is fine

[raw jasper]

I mean, you could probably look at patents, but I wouldn't recommend it, as any knowledge obtained is potentially poisonous, and I'm not a lawyer

[crystal ore]

"Optical flow" is probably a good keyword for this sort of algorithm. I believe some sensors actually used laser Doppler shifts to get velocity, though this isn't common any more versus camera-based techniques.

[delicate stream]

Generally you can use info in patents for your own personal use without issue... it's just you definitely can't sell things using that info

[crystal ore]

They're probably referring to the "willful infringement" rules. If you accidentally infringe on a patent, that's one level of damages, but if it's known that you actually read the patent and developed your infringing product anyway, then it's triple damages or something.

[raw jasper]

Obviously the best solution to all this if you have such concerns is to hire a lawyer to do due diligence before releasing anything, at least in the commercial space

Again, IANAL

[crystal ore]

(My former employer advised engineers not to even read competitor patents for this reason.)

Heh, which suited me fine, as I find most patents pretty unreadable anyway.

[delicate stream]

I think infringement only comes into play for if you’re going to be selling anything, but I also am not a lawyer

[crystal ore]

Technically infringement occurs whenever you "reduce the invention to practice", even if it's only for personal use. But companies will rarely sue you just to stop your hobby work.

[delicate stream]

Hmm… law is hard. This is why I’m not a lawyer

I do imagine getting a Cease and Desist order if you copied something out of a patent and spread it in hobby work to other hobbiests

[tardy badger]

There are rare cases where courts have ruled that ubiquitous open source usage of patented material voided any protections offered by the patent due to the usage essentially becoming public domain

It’s very rare, but it has happened

In most cases it just became obvious that the patent was not as novel as it was made to be, which is a mistake on the part of the USPTO

[dusty citrus]

It's stuff designed to be out of interpretation anyway, so personally I think that you can ignore it untill you don't get to problems, then you get a lawyer, otherwise you get stopped by all the legal no sense

[delicate stream]

So we need to spread all patent data into DIY usage as quickly as possible

[dusty citrus]

Nah, if it's not yet patented, but it's public, there have been cases of new parents being allowed although the Public domain

[delicate stream]

I don’t think a patent of public domain stuff would hold up tho

[raw jasper]

AFAIK, there is a period after application, but before acceptance, where one may contest the patent based on prior art

[umbral phoenix]

filing date is the thing

"or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed"

[raw jasper]

There's also the case of expired patents. For example, the patents for the NES have expired, so (as far as I know, but, again, not a lawyer), I guess you could implement a NES in an FPGA without issues

[delicate stream]

I’d imagine that if something public domain was not contested and accepted, but then the patent owner tried to sue over prior art, whoever reviewed it would be like “wait, this patent shouldn’t have been allowed in the first place”

[tardy badger]

Patents are granted based off novelty, utility, and similar criteria

[umbral phoenix]

yeah, but it's expensive and if it's a person against a large corporation's legal team, well...

[dusty citrus]

Maybe not with individuals cases, but it's usefull vs other companies
I've heard lots of dramas in the 3D printing section, Chinese companies, and other country specific things
I think that's all systems designed to be exploitable by few, at the end of the day

[tardy badger]

Trademarks/copyrights can be made off public domain, like specific styling of a word for instance of common words.

But you’d have to make a compelling case as to why a near public domain derivative would be patentable

[delicate stream]

Laws are weird

[dusty citrus]

Although now thinking about it, there have been also cases targeting comunity groups
There was like website distributing cars repair parts, which got shutdown by a company which deemed it illegal by distributing fakes

Then marketplaces such as ebay, amazon, Etsy or even google ads, have peculiar ruling for fakes, meaning that they daily take down stuff which is deemed to be fake out of reports, to not deal with legislation, as I did understand
(I got a first hand experience with ebay, I got banned on ebay)

[tardy badger]

lol

[dusty citrus]

The report system is even croked
Although I had all positive feedbacks, mass reporting or reporting by any random company, is automatically trusted
Ebay looks like doesn't want to have anything to do with it, so proceeds with banning, and deletes everything
Other similar business adopt the same thing, likely some industries lobbied for such no sense ruling

[tardy badger]

The USPTO has been flooded over the last few years for trademark requests from Chinese sellers seeking to get “trusted seller” status on Amazon

[late fulcrum]

There is a breakout board for folks who want to play with optical tracking https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/products/paa5100je-optical-tracking-spi-breakout

[delicate stream]

Breakout boards are love, breakout boards are life

[crystal ore]

@old beacon Note that the board that madbodger just linked does seem to have a Python driver.

[raw jasper]

TIL optical mouse technology is used in vacuum robots

BTW, are vacuum robots any good? Are there any that won't also vacuum up my home data to the cloud? Ideally, not having an internet connection at all?

[tardy badger]

Not that I’m aware of

Amazon allegedly uses iRobot home layout data to sell you things

[raw jasper]

Oh that's the least I'm worried about:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-irobot-robot-vacuums-artificial-intelligence-training-data-privacy/

TBF, they were beta/dev(?) hardware, but, still,

[dusty citrus]

Lol
Maybe then do it one diy?
It shouldn't be so difficult for hw
You can also get lots of repair parts too

[tardy badger]

part of me wonders if Amazon is also selling your home layout data to law enforcement along with your ring doorbell data

[raw jasper]

LE will probably already have access to the building plans, so it'd be a completely moot purchase

[tardy badger]

well, knowing where furniture is would be a big help

having a building layout is one thing, but furniture layout can change the dynamic of how rooms feel and move.

[raw jasper]

One day I'm gonna upload the C. elegans connectome to a microcontroller running a rudimentary robot and hook up a vacuum to it

[tardy badger]

plus not everyone reports renovations to the city with updated floor plans

[raw jasper]

A worm should have good enough collision detection?

[tardy badger]

probably

just use an array of proximity sensors

you would need like, maybe 6 total to get a good idea of your surroundings

[raw jasper]

Yup! :P

[delicate stream]

YMMV greatly; a number of factors play into the quality of cleaning.
1] quality of the bot design/sensors; some are quite rudimentary and rely on bump sensors, basic distance sensing, rotary encoders, etc. and a lot of processing [like cloud] to make a map instead of having fancy things like LIDAR. Others will have fancier things like LIDAR and be able to actually navigate pretty well.
2] Software; some apps are great, some suck. Some robots with fancy hardware have horrible programming, and some with less fancy hardware have great, clever programming. Lots of mixed results there.
3] your home layout; some homes are better for robots, especially ones with relatively open space. If you've got a table with lots of chairs, things all around the table, soft stuff for it to bump into or scan, it might get more confused.
4] surfaces; some carpets might pose a challenge for some bot designs. Sometimes tile or hardwood can have lifted areas that impact performance.

Robot vacuum ownership is kinda roulette

[raw jasper]

You seem to have hands-on experience

[delicate stream]

I do. I got an iHome robot which was itself mixed results. Not the most expensive unit, but it definitely was better than nothing

[raw jasper]

I am not comfortable with the idea of it constantly sharing data with company servers

[delicate stream]

I think most, if not all, currently available models use company servers for some level of processing and storage of data -- might have to get a used early Roomba or something to avoid that. If you want to go DIY, there are definitely options to hack -- some things are super simple, like the motors for movement and the vacuum motor, but sensors might be too hard to easily connect to

[dusty citrus]

Ah yes there is also this thing that could prevent that
https://github.com/Hypfer/Valetudo
There was something else specifically designed for random Chinese vacuum cleaners, but I can't recall it's naming...

[ebon dew]

Today I was added to a game developer company on Steam as a freelancer. They actually make pretty good games.

They want me to make some portable embedded flashy/data devices that integrate with the game developer API (separate and different from the public API).

Devices that flash and display data from an API, I can do. Should be a pretty cool project right up my alley.

[delicate stream]

Nice

[old beacon]

wait what link?

what board?

[delicate stream]

This one

[old beacon]

link?

[delicate stream]

That's the link

It's in his message

[old beacon]

I cant find it

[delicate stream]

In madboger's message?

[old beacon]

yeah

can you post it?

[delicate stream]

https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/products/paa5100je-optical-tracking-spi-breakout

[old beacon]

oh

Nice thank you!

🙂

[delicate stream]

np

[old beacon]

so this one has a py driver

[delicate stream]

Seems that way according to Ed

[ebon dew]

That seems promising! Nice one Kyoshi.

[delicate stream]

Thank madbodger, I just copied the link, lol

[old beacon]

wait what

[ebon dew]

Nice one Madbodger.

[old beacon]

@ebon dew ummm...

[delicate stream]

You missed an i on my name again :P

[ebon dew]

honestly never noticed there were to i's, i have really bad eyesight and my monitor is too far away. 😦

[old beacon]

Thank you Kyoshii

[delicate stream]

Lol, it's ok, seeing is hard. At least you aren't calling me something totally random

[ebon dew]

I'm not working on the project, I'm just happy you found something that will work. I had no ideas for it.

[old beacon]

nvm

[ebon dew]

Well that particular one is SPI protocol

You can chain SPI if you give them different CS pins. It's not as easy as chaining I2C.

[old beacon]

hmm

[old beacon]

this helps allot thank you! DJDev

[ebon dew]

Chain everything except CS. Each peripheral's CS pin goes to a different GPIO on the microcontroller.

[old beacon]

Also I dont think i can buy this in the usa

PAA5100JE

im trying to find which mouse have it so i can take it apart

[tardy badger]

You can order from Pimoroni if you live in the US

[old beacon]

are they usa base?

[tardy badger]

UK based but there’s international shipping

[old beacon]

@tardy badger the there is a Python library available for the ADNS-9800 Laser Motion Sensor,

[tardy badger]

Look on the product listing

They should list any software available

[old beacon]

i mean is the ADNS-9800 have the same py lib

ok

[wanton thistle]

Cars in the shop so I got a loaner. Everything is touch, even to turn on the heat or ac. The buttons aren't responsive and subaru made them small.

If this is how newer cars are, I will gladly keep my old 2009 with buttons

[delicate stream]

It unfortunately is the trend... I hate touch screens in cars

[wanton thistle]

I hate it

[delicate stream]

So much hate, so bad, so hard to use when driving

[wanton thistle]

Yes! The button to turn down the heat is so small

[delicate stream]

A lot of cars it's TOTALLY touch screen

[wanton thistle]

No feedback either

Ugh. Guess I'll drive my 09 till the transmission goes lol

[delicate stream]

DIY car

[wanton thistle]

We can rebuild it

Lol

[tardy badger]

Is that an ascent?

[wanton thistle]

Outback

[tardy badger]

My outback has two smaller screens. It’s a 2021

[wanton thistle]

Have no clue on the year

[swift hatch]

I'm still annoyed when the car key isn't a key lol

[wanton thistle]

It has to be a 2023 model though

[tardy badger]

My Impreza Sport has manual controls for AC

It’s a 2023

[swift hatch]

My Jeep has an actual key, my wife's car has a keyless fob and i'm always like "this isn't a key!"

[delicate stream]

I have a car that doesn't have a fob for the key

[tardy badger]

Are cryptographic keys not keys then? 🤔

[swift hatch]

heh

[delicate stream]

I miss having a fob

[swift hatch]

i have no touch screens in the Jeep either, but the stock radio is now half-broken/half-haunted so i may need to upgrade

[tardy badger]

I enjoy my push button start so much I often get in my outback and press the key slot and forget it needs an actual key

[delicate stream]

I also miss power windows and locks

[swift hatch]

it no longer can play the radio except when it randomly turns it on

[tardy badger]

Ghost radio

[swift hatch]

yes

[wanton thistle]

I don't want to get attached to this car. Nice, yes but I enjoy no car payments lol

[tardy badger]

Time to replace your radio with circuitpython

[delicate stream]

No car payments is so nice

[swift hatch]

and i leave it tuned to a Korean language AM station (I don't speak Korean) so when it comes on it really seems like a sudden urgent transmission is happening

[wanton thistle]

Crutchfield has some very nice units. I'm going to get one soon

[tardy badger]

Stares at my $1100 in car payments because used cars are so expensive

I had to buy new because I couldn’t afford the used car payment

[delicate stream]

I got soooo lucky financially -- 2005 Ford Focus, $6000, only 52k miles

[wanton thistle]

I could rant about the us and car infrastructure but it's moot 😅

[old beacon]

@tardy badger do i just selling the currency flag to get to the usa website version?

for pimori

[tardy badger]

🤷‍♂️

[old beacon]

pimonori

[tardy badger]

I’ve never personally ordered, but I know people here have

[swift hatch]

pirate-monkey-robot-ninja

[tardy badger]

I wanted a 2019 with like 30k miles but they wanted more than I could put down 😦

[swift hatch]

pi-mo-ro-ni

[delicate stream]

This is why I have a 2005 DX

[tardy badger]

You can’t even finance a car traditionally if it’s more than 12 years old or more than $100k miles without going to a place that requires weekly payments at 25% interest

[wanton thistle]

😭

[tardy badger]

And good luck buying cash, even older used cars are expensive these days

[wanton thistle]

Yeap 💯

[delicate stream]

I was insanely lucky

[tardy badger]

Adafruit needs to make DIY car

[wanton thistle]

I wish I had more time to mess around with my car but I choose gaming and electronics

[delicate stream]

AdaCar

[wanton thistle]

Diy ebike. Problem there is other motorists wanting to run you down

[delicate stream]

This is why we need AdaCAR instead of AdaBike

[tardy badger]

Honestly, adabike would be a logical step

[wanton thistle]

Power wheels Power racing lol

[tardy badger]

Especially if we want to encourage a carless future

[delicate stream]

baby steps

[swift hatch]

a carless whisper

[tardy badger]

https://tenor.com/view/careless-whisper-wham-george-michael-im-never-gonna-dance-again-guilty-feet-gif-17838438

[old beacon]

what about this?

[tardy badger]

I love the original, the Seether cover, but also I love the Kenny G sax cover

[tardy badger]

Using obscure modules off Amazon increases the likelihood of having to roll your own driver code

[old beacon]

https://github.com/pimoroni/pmw3901-python

[tardy badger]

Okay, well you can try it

[old beacon]

i like the one that u suggested earlier but it would take weeks to get it in the usa

or if i can find a mouse that have paa5100Je'

but this would work right the pwm3901 ? for an optical mouse?

it has x y translation

wait... why does it say 5115100j?

wait so this board actually is identical with the paa5100?

[delicate stream]

"The PAA5100JE has a slightly different init routine to the PWM3901, you should use the class provided to ensure it's set up correctly" -- it sounds like they're largely compatible if they just have a different init

[old beacon]

hmm

my main goal is optical mouse

so...

[delicate stream]

What exactly are your goals for this project?

[old beacon]

make an optical mouse

no IMU

[delicate stream]

And wirelessly connect to a USB port, right?

[old beacon]

i will also have to use my esp32 qt wifi

yes

[delicate stream]

Was there a reason you wanted to use WiFi instead of Bluetooth?

[old beacon]

i cant really say but I want to connect it to wifi..

[delicate stream]

[tardy badger]

Are you trying to make a Geiger counter?

[old beacon]

well

that would be for another project

[honest jolt]

If you want your mouse to connect and transmit movement info over WiFi, it might have higher latency the Bluetooth or USB or basic wireless

[delicate stream]

I can basically promise latency will be WAY higher than BT or USB

[honest jolt]

Plus you would probably need to write a custom program to run on the computer to run

To move the mouse

And since it's emulated mouse movements some programs like games won't accept it

[steady dove]

@delicate stream optical Geiger mouse with Wi-Fi ssh.

[thick wind]

I’m more interested in how accurately you can translate acceleration and rotation to a point…

[old beacon]

there are usb unviersal language

but i just need one for optical mouse. I dont also want to tinker with the serial

[honest jolt]

? Elaborate please?

[delicate stream]

If you're going over WiFI, your mouse will have to send data over the network, which would get picked up by another WiFi MCU, and translate to something that can be passed over USB -- The receiver side can be a USB HID device

[old beacon]

im sorry i ment serial bus

[old beacon]

I was thinking of sending data to the esp32 qt..

i will have 2 mouse

but i just need an optical sensor for x y

[delicate stream]

You mean one for transmit and one to receive, right?

[old beacon]

yes...

[delicate stream]

Ok, yeah, that's what I was talking about

[old beacon]

But I just need the right sensor.

so im thinking this?

[delicate stream]

Does this have anything to do with radiation? 'cuz you've mentioned radiation a few times, and if you're worried about it impacting Bluetooth, it probably would also interfere with WiFi, and probably will also interfere with any of these optical sensors

[honest jolt]

With WiFi, you will need one device to show up as an access point, the other must connect to it. You probably to want to secure the AP which means password which makes it more complex. Or both can use a password to connect to a AP together to send information. Both methods are complex.

[old beacon]

no radiation was a typo nothing to do with radiation

[delicate stream]

Are you trying to make a mouse that controls a computer from long distances over the internet or something?

Hmmm...

[honest jolt]

So across WiFi networks?

[old beacon]

so should i get that sensor?

would it work ?

[delicate stream]

I mean, probably, but honestly if you need to control a mouse over the internet, there are much easier things you could do

Like, you can use a wireless USB mouse with a Pi, and have software on the Pi connect to the remote computer

[honest jolt]

So you basically want a regular mouse, but you can plug the receiver into a computer that is far away

To control

It

[delicate stream]

You can totally try if you want to, but sometimes it gets to a point where the time, energy, and funding put into a project aren't really worth it. But that's for you to decide

[honest jolt]

How far? Lora might be an option if you want somewhat long range communication

[old beacon]

over wifi

[thick wind]

Is this a mouse that controls a pc upstairs while you’re sitting in the living room or something?

[honest jolt]

Does this need to cross multiple WiFi networks? Like a mouse connected to one WiFi networks and the computer is connected to a different WiFi network? If so, you may need to write even more code for a server basically.

[thick wind]

Are you just trying to use esp32-s2 boards to build a wireless mouse?

[honest jolt]

Peer to peer over the internet exists, but I have no clue how to use it outside the browser.

[old beacon]

esp32-s2 qt + optical sensor to build a mouse

[thick wind]

Is there a reason you picked the esp32-s2?

[old beacon]

yes

[thick wind]

Because you can use usb, but Wi-Fi isn’t typically used for this

[honest jolt]

Is this part of a larger project?

[honest jolt]

(Or Bluetooth as mentioned)

[thick wind]

You can get a direct connection with esp-now, but the Wi-Fi is pretty power hungry and battery draining.

[old beacon]

yes

[honest jolt]

Doesn't esp-now rely on the devices being like house distance away? (Like direct WiFi connection)

[thick wind]

It’s usually used for IoT transmission, where messages are short and sporadic. Something like a mouse will draw a lot more power than BLE

[old beacon]

yes

[honest jolt]

Is it possible for you to describe the project?

[delicate stream]

An overview helps us help you better -- there may be better solutions we can't suggest without more detail

[old beacon]

Esp32 qt + optical mouse sensor with x + y acceleration. <- Make this and then connect to it via, another device.

[honest jolt]

I meant the larger project, sorry. Like do you plan to make a keyboard version for remote control of systems?

[old beacon]

yes but for now i like to make an IoT mouse

[delicate stream]

Or is this meant to be a prank device to move someone's mouse on a remote computer when you aren't there?

[old beacon]

sorry for the confusion it just a project, there is no radiation involve no nothing. just a basic IoT project.

If I have misstyoped sorry I have anxiety.

[thick wind]

Yes, the optical flow sensor can be used to detect cycles motion, though that one is usually used for far-field detection, not a mouse.

Minimum working range is 8cm…

[delicate stream]

This is why we pay you the big bucks, Hem. You catch these things we miss

[old beacon]

i dont understand what Hem said.

[thick wind]

You don’t pay me anything 🤣

[honest jolt]

stackoverflow reputation

[old beacon]

I dont understand also.. i dont have money to give..

[delicate stream]

Some sensors are made for close up, some are made for far away -- it looks like the one you found is made for further away

[old beacon]

oh!

[thick wind]

That one says it’s suitable for devices like drones haha

[honest jolt]

So you probably need to find another sensor unless you want to hover your mouse above the ground

[old beacon]

https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/products/paa5100je-optical-tracking-spi-breakout

but this is like in uk cant find any mouse that have this

[honest jolt]

Range of 15-35 mm, that might work

[old beacon]

what about this?

i can remove the pmw3360

but i may have to tinker with the serial bc it doesnt have a py lib

[honest jolt]

I was thinking you can buy a USB mouse and use USB host on some Arduinos.

[old beacon]

@delicate stream sorry i hope theres no problem im just asking for educational and research purpose

[honest jolt]

Or PS/2 mouse, which doesn't need USB host

[old beacon]

would i be able to code it in py and would connect my esp32? if it has a py lib? if so please share which mouse

[delicate stream]

No problem -- we're just asking more questions to be able to better help you

[thick wind]

You’ll probably have to build your own python library regardless of sensor. Not sure if python is best for this type of real time acquisition, but most sensors spit out data over serial or spi.

[honest jolt]

Probably not (Circuit/Micro)python, but iirc the Arduino Due has USB host, which can interface with like USB mice and read their moved position. (https://reference.arduino.cc/reference/en/libraries/usbhost/)

[old beacon]

many sensors dont even have repository py

[delicate stream]

Do you plan to be blindly moving the mouse around? Because even if you're in the room, there may be a second of a half second or more, which would make it really hard to use. And if you go over the internet, the delay may be a full second or more

[thick wind]

Most aren’t built with python haha

[old beacon]

"this is why they pay you big bucks" as kyoshii mentioned

[delicate stream]

Hehe

[thick wind]

To be honest, many mouse sensors’ data sheets are locked behind NDA, so it’s understandable that there isn’t much public information to go off of.

[raw jasper]

^ I'm surprised by this fact haha

[delicate stream]

It might be a lot easier to get a USB mouse, have your microcontroller act as a USB host, and just have it relay the HID data

[old beacon]

so this then?

https://github.com/SunjunKim/PMW3360

[delicate stream]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-bored-unsurprised-futurama-fry-gif-19739787

[raw jasper]

Yeah, that... kind of sums up my reaction

[honest jolt]

Since mice are so cheap, I would have expected otherwise 😮

[thick wind]

Most diy projects either use a prebuilt mouse with a custom case, or avoid using optical sensors in favor of other input devices.

Like trackballs.

[honest jolt]

Does the Arduino giga have WiFi and USB host?

[old beacon]

hem how abotu that

[honest jolt]

Very expensive method though

[thick wind]

Looks like a mouse to me?

[delicate stream]

They're only cheap because they make 34937280343 of them at a time

[thick wind]

Sorry, what’s the question?

[old beacon]

yeah so how about this @thick wind https://github.com/SunjunKim/PMW3360

i will buy that mouse and get the PMW3360 and idekbmhh it

[honest jolt]

Extracting the sensor might be difficult

From the mouse to use

[delicate stream]

That library is for Arduino, not CircuitPython

[old beacon]

yeah

[delicate stream]

So you're switching to Arduino? Or are you gonna rewrite it for CP?

[old beacon]

dont want too...

[thick wind]

There’s a reason everybody builds keyboards instead of mice hehe

[delicate stream]

You can't use an Arduino library on CircuitPython, so either you have to switch or rewrite it

[cunning frost]

NGL, when that driver came up yesterday, I got curious if I could port it to CP just to see how it performs. Not that I'd do it now but eventually.

[thick wind]

Does it have to be an optical mouse?

Joystick or trackball mice are easy

[honest jolt]

9-dof accelerometer based was mentioned, but will probably be the worst method.

[raw jasper]

I have no idea what they're trying to build (there's no way I'm reading a 100+ msg scrollback right now), but, at this point, could simply ignoring all the fancy hardware and building an.... AutoHotKey script (I know, I know, blast from the past) be an option?

[delicate stream]

MCU being a USB host and just taking the movement data from a COTS mouse is probably better

[thick wind]

The man wants to try to build a mouse, let him dig

[raw jasper]

Ah, cool then

[thick wind]

Can we honestly say all of our projects took the easiest way about things?

[old beacon]

umm

[delicate stream]

I am lazy and try to do things the easy way

[old beacon]

no.. it wasnt easy for me nor it is easy now...

[honest jolt]

Me too 🏃‍♂️

[old beacon]

to be honest its my first time learning to code too.. and understanding it was hard for me first time

[thick wind]

And it isn’t easy for anyone here either. We keep coming back because it’s a challenge.

[raw jasper]

You can say that again...

[cunning frost]

That's the fun of it.

[thick wind]

Custom mice are not easy, and I don’t think you’ll be successful on your first try. Heck, this is unexplored territory for me too, so no guarantees.

[old beacon]

I'm not proficient at coding nor engineering but im learning. First time was always the hardest and it feels like my first time building a mouse

[old beacon]

Thanks Hem for the motivation I was about to quit..

[tardy badger]

This why I suggested an IMU because it’s already generating you movement data that can be used to control mouse positions

[delicate stream]

I've done custom mice, but for optical, I always just built a case around working USB hardware

[honest jolt]

We all start like this

[old beacon]

I honestly cant with the IMU

[thick wind]

I know trackball breakouts are simple and guides already exist for those, so that’s why I wanted to see what your end goal actually is, and how much effort you want to invest in this.

Trying to hack a commercially available mouse sensor to work with a dev board sounds like something that would have me up a wall tbh

[honest jolt]

Not sure how accurate they are over long periods of time. The errors would compound quickly. Although expensive imus like the bno055 might do fine, idk, never used one before

[tardy badger]

Well, the goal in suggesting it was that it would be an easier starting point

[old beacon]

Lasers are more accurate than the trackball but not that big of a gap difference.

[old beacon]

If i were to use a trackball, i would still have the x and y, but I would include servos to move it so more gears..

[honest jolt]

Trackballs just need a way to masurebhow much the ball spins

No servos

[delicate stream]

There aren't servos and gears in a trackball, just a roller sensor

[tardy badger]

There’s no need to jump in the deep end when there’s steps on the shallow side to start at. If the goal is learning, there’s no harm in starting from a simpler, better supported path. Optical based systems are just tough in general. Even for experienced engineers

[thick wind]

Wait what is this about servos? My mice do not come with servos.

[old beacon]

sorry im confuse a roller ball or a track ball?

[honest jolt]

Even if you have a ball on top or bottom, both don't require servos, just sensors to measure how much it spins. Like a rotary encoder

[thick wind]

Either? An old ball mouse might be a bit more involved mechanically, but the principle is the same

[honest jolt]

*rotary encoder is not the best example, just the first thing that came to my mind

[thick wind]

https://shop.pimoroni.com/en-us/products/trackball-breakout for easy integration with a microcontroller of your choice.

[tardy badger]

That’s a great idea

[thick wind]

Easy to use with python too

[honest jolt]

20% too lol

Because the trackball has a grippy rubber surface you can also use it with the trackball facing downwards and track it as it rolls on a surface, like a traditional roller ball mouse.

Basically what you need for a mouse

[thick wind]

Now where are my big bucks when I need them… 😆

[honest jolt]

haha

[delicate stream]

You're getting a 5000% raise right now!

[honest jolt]

||5000+% of $0||

[old beacon]

Hem i think would collect from Kyoshii

[thick wind]

Nah we’re just joking. None of this is paid work. We’re all just casuals who have some time to spare

[delicate stream]

X% increase of $0 pay is also one of the oldest jokes in the book, lol

[honest jolt]

paid in internet reputation perhaps 🤔

[thick wind]

Anyways, that would be where I would start with exploring mouse control in circuitpython. Hopefully that fits your expectation somewhat?

[honest jolt]

I see there are Arduino/C++ and MicroPython libraries in the description.

[old beacon]

so umm that would be face down like this

[honest jolt]

Yes

Flip the breakout board upside down

[thick wind]

It could be, if that’s what you want to do with it

[honest jolt]

*mount it upside down

It also glows 😮

[delicate stream]

Or you can just use it as a regular trackpad, that's up to you

[old beacon]

wait if you are paying hem 0$ that is still considered an employer so technically he can collect and entitled to not only labor wages but also basic cares like medical plan ect?

[delicate stream]

Hem doesn't work for me, it's entirely a joke, lol

[thick wind]

No, there is no employment agreement. We’re just volunteers.

With zero contractual obligation of any sort.

[delicate stream]

We can all disappear right now if we want to

[old beacon]

oral agreement is another form of contract or in this case conversational text agreement

[old beacon]

im joking XD

[delicate stream]

lol

Our sarcasm/joke detectors don't always work around here

[old beacon]

you started it 🙂 but yeah @thick wind deserve the big bucks

[honest jolt]

Sarcasm is much more difficult to detect through text-based mediums

[delicate stream]

The dream is we'll all get hired to work for Adafruit and actually get paid the big bucks

[old beacon]

i cant say but we cant predict the future right?

so possibilites can happen?

[delicate stream]

Anything is possible

[old beacon]

I think I will just put on hold on building a mouse for now.

@thick wind @foggy fogshii [she/they] [plz ping] thank you for the advice

@honest jolt @cunning frost thank you

@tardy badger thank you

[cunning frost]

NP. The barrier might be a bit too high right now but you'll get there.

[tardy badger]

Ahhhh yisssss

My wife made Naan 🤩

[old beacon]

I never tried it.

[tardy badger]

It’s amazing

[dusty citrus]

How many name variations for pita, rooti, Muslim bread lol

[tardy badger]

Naan is different than pita

It’s similar, but there are differences

Pita for instance usually doesn’t use milk, or none of the traditional recipes I’ve used have called for milk

I guess some pita do add milk, eggs, or honey

[solar kindle]

Love naan. Fortunately, there's a company that make gluten-free naan, so I'm allowed to bring it into the house. 😄

[tardy badger]

Naan also tastes different than pita. We make a lot of pita in my house, lots of naan recently

[tardy badger]

Modern society does have its benefits 🤓

[dusty citrus]

Yeah there's variations, probably they all originated from the same thing due to culture share
But if you ask me, Turks stuff is the best, especially sweets, but you end up getting diabetes

[raw jasper]

Yup! Gluten-free, lactose-free, etc -- Biotechnology to the rescue!

[tardy badger]

I do love Turkish dolmas!

My parents lived in turkey and learned a lot of different dishes

[solar kindle]

Yeah, gluten-free products just happened to become more prevalent about the same time Darling Spouse was diagnosed with celiac disease.

[tardy badger]

I couldn’t imagine living in a time before with a disease like celiac and not knowing what to do for food

Especially for poorer communities where breads tend to make up a large chunk of the diet

[raw jasper]

:>

[tardy badger]

It’s one of those “I guess I’ll just die” situations back then

[raw jasper]

Even when a method of production was invented, gluten-free food was mail-order only for a long time in many parts of the world

[tardy badger]

The dolmas my mom learned to make in Türkiye we’re made with grape leaves, rice, ground lamb, mint, and a nice lemon base brine

[tardy badger]

Yeah, I’m thinking like turn of the 20th century when we still didn’t quite have a grasp on food allergies

[raw jasper]

As far as I know, that's how, within reasonable variance, dolmas is made in most of the Balkans. Which makes sense, since many Balkan regions were under Ottoman rule for a rather long time.

[tardy badger]

Greek dolmas are usually what’s sold in grocery stores which is interesting

[dusty citrus]

Oh I personally hate that
I can't recall what are they called in my origin country, but I guess that like 500 years or something of domination, did engrave culture as well

[tardy badger]

Oh, can’t forget the pine nuts

[raw jasper]

We didn't quite have a grasp of a lot of things in the turn of the 20th century. I hope that's what the people of the future will be saying for us, too.

[tardy badger]

Same

Could you just imagine how much different the world would be if we could advance scientifically without the threat of outcry from people who choose not to try and understand though

[dusty citrus]

Same but I don't know it's centuries that the health section has mafia like lobbied policies

[raw jasper]

It is how it is.

...As much as it saddens me to say so.

[tardy badger]

It seems to be human nature to both embrace and reject advancing change depending on how you assimilated to the world

[raw jasper]

I dunno. I'm pretty resistant to embracing GPT models.

[tardy badger]

I don’t really thing GPT provides significant value yet

It’s cool and all, but there are some troubling datasets that should probably be changed in how they are used to train.

[dusty citrus]

Indeed collage parrot
But more adless for the time being

[raw jasper]

I dunno, some of its evangelists make it sound like its time for a good amount of knowledge workers to pack their bags and pick up a trade, because it's inevitably going to replace them

[tardy badger]

They’ve been saying that for decades about any technology that remotely could replace workers

All it does is shift the job title and skills

[dusty citrus]

Tbh I think that outcries are sponsored by opposing industries rather than genuine concerns
I mean yes there are people concerned, but they serve more the purpose of the usefull "unfriendly world"

[tardy badger]

I was trying to inconspicuously refer to religious rejection and stamping out of scientific advancements

[raw jasper]

I wonder how many people are lost along the way. I am still young enough to be able to adapt to whatever comes next. What will happen in N years, when I'm no longer able to do so?

[tardy badger]

I think over time a small percentage of jobs are shed specifically related to a particular set of tasks.

But the working pool is largely shrinking in many countries for skilled work so it tends to make sense

There’s also a growing need for service related jobs that tend to be very difficult for robots/software to get right.

So the job itself shifts focus either upward in terms of skills required/pay or shifts downward in that it isn’t required anymore and that talent ends up in a different industry all together

[raw jasper]

That is correct, and has been correct for years. Even though I'd say all work is skilled work. Many people would consider a farm worker as "unskilled", but put me in a farm and there's no way I'm gonna do anything of use w/o training.

[raw jasper]

Goalpost seems to be moving, though

[tardy badger]

To an extent. The biggest issue is natural interaction

We haven’t figured out how to make interactions natural despite the billions of dollars and thousands of hours that have been poured into the field alone.

I’m pretty sure there’s still a DARPA prize for natural human robot interaction systems.

[dusty citrus]

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

[tardy badger]

Making interactions with robots natural like human interactions

Yes, robots can perform all the same physical tasks of a job, but a lot of people don’t want that because the interactions typically feel cold and inhuman

[delicate stream]

We need the robots to smile

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-confused-wut-what-gif-5860610

[tardy badger]

The first robot with citizenship

Costs more than the economic value I’ll ever produce in my life

[delicate stream]

What if the value of economics is null

[late fulcrum]

I'd aver that most people, given a choice between "natural" and "convenient" would overwhelmingly opt for "convenient".

[delicate stream]

As long as the robot doesn’t break my arm, I don’t care if it acts like a human, lol

[raw jasper]

So the endgame is that everything ends up being done by robots aside from tourism, hospitality, restaurants and related (service?) industries? I guess that'd make sense, unless there's a major cultural shift

[delicate stream]

I want a robot bar tender

https://tenor.com/view/passengers-passengers-movie-michael-sheen-bartender-fail-gif-7231182

[dusty citrus]

Make a child robot, it's cheaper to manufacturer

[raw jasper]

I think there's a robot bartending event somewhere in the USA

You should probably look it up and attend!

[dusty citrus]

And also friendly because it resemble a child

[delicate stream]

I think some bars actually have robot bartenders. I just wanted a reason to use the GIF, lol

[late fulcrum]

"It will always be easier to make organic brains by unskilled labor than to create a machine-based artificial intelligence." – Arthur C. Clarke

[delicate stream]

Unless we figure out how to make artificial machine brains as easily as we make organic brains…

But yeah, organic is ezpz, machines are hard

[tardy badger]

Maybe introverted people. Many ambiverts and extroverts I know hate things that have 0 human interaction

They hate self checkouts, kiosks for ordering food/checking in places..

I personally love self checkout but it also makes me sketchy because my brain goes “what if you accidentally steal something”

[delicate stream]

Humans don't always ensure "accidental theft" doesn't happen -- I ended up with 2 sets of sewing needles from the dollar store, after being checked out by a human, because neither of us realized that 2 packages were stuck together

[late fulcrum]

I was trying to buy a large inflatable decoration for my yard. The store was selling it marked down as it was a display model, and they had put it in a packing box. I pointed the human cashier to the correct label for the $120 contents, but she ignored it, turned the box over, and scanned the barcode for the $2 box. It took three tries for me to explain to the cashier how not to give me an enormous unintended discount.

[delicate stream]

Both have pros and cons, humans and machines, lol

[tardy badger]

I walked out with a $2 little storage bin once

Lol

[raw jasper]

For some reason, I imagine a robot bartender as some sort of vending machine where you punch in your cocktail of choice, and a bunch of peristaltic pumps empty the right amount of alcoholic liquid into a styrofoam cup, which is then shaken and delivered

[tardy badger]

It was on the bottom of the cart and I missed it somehow

[late fulcrum]

Even my extrovert friends tend to opt for convenience over human interaction for many basic transactions. They do value human interaction, but even more than that, they value their time, so they can spend their time interacting with people they choose instead of whoever's operating a register.

[delicate stream]

I sometimes like small talk over my large grocery order, but like today? I just wanted to get that gallon of milk and RUN

[tardy badger]

I nearly always use self checkout

I am not a fan of face to face interaction

Not at the grocery store anyway

Add in the anxieties of the pandemic

All good

[raw jasper]

Given it's an airborne disease, it's rather unlikely the interaction with the cashier will be what will do you in, after you've been in an enclosed space with who knows how many people for who knows how long

[tardy badger]

I am generally a loner but I was very lucky to meet my wife and we have our own little crew (3 kids 💀)

[tardy badger]

Can’t be too careful when your daughter has a heart defect

[raw jasper]

It's not like I'm one to talk... I still wear a mask

("still"?.... I don't like the way I phrased that)

[tardy badger]

Though these days I’ve mostly given up on masking unless I’m not feeling well. My daughter goes to preschool and has given me far more than I could probably bring home

My son brought Covid home early November and that tools us all out

[raw jasper]

Yah, preschool is germ paradise

[tardy badger]

We stayed home miserable

[raw jasper]

All sorts of school, tbh

[tardy badger]

My son is in 1st grade and we live in a very conservative area

[raw jasper]

Was that your first infection? I hope everything went as fine as these things can go, and nobody had any chronic effects

[tardy badger]

No, I think it was our second or third

[dusty citrus]

I keep masking because COVID has not gone away unlike what gov would like to say
Although many people do weird out seeing me with a mask
But I found a perfect excuse smog, the other day my mask did break, and the air was really bad

[tardy badger]

Covid rates where I am? No idea what they’re at. The state stopped tracking in like September last year

[raw jasper]

Does it still make any difference wrt infectious disease protection? I feel these days everyone has given up regardless of aisle

[tardy badger]

I’m more or less talking about how conservative areas are more likely to send kids to school sick

[dusty citrus]

More or less same
There aren't infections because we don't do testing anymore

[tardy badger]

We keep our kids home when they’re sick. No point on being the jerk who send something home that got someone’s grandparents sick

[plush pier]

Inhaling strangers spit particles, healthy or not, keeps the n95 on me

[tardy badger]

I work from home so I rarely leave the house

[raw jasper]

Ah, I had no idea that was the case

[tardy badger]

My wife is doing an online degree so the most that she does is take my daughter to and from preschool. And occasionally grocery stops

[raw jasper]

I mean, that's one way to think of it, too :P

[plush pier]

I’ll take it off if I have faith in the hvac system of the place

[raw jasper]

I've yet to meet that mythical HVAC system

[plush pier]

Outdoor seating is nice too

[raw jasper]

Something I just noticed. If that chart is correct, life expectancy peaked in 2019
(Credit: https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy)

[plush pier]

I got way too sick last year with all things including Covid. 1/9 days last year were sick days for me and I’m just not doing that again.

[plush pier]

I wish people would take collective responsibility in returning to that peak…

[umbral phoenix]

I have all 5 vaxxes available so far, and installed MERV-16 filters on the HVAC at home. I mask at crowded places like airports and while boarding or deplaning, when people are densely packed and breathing all over each other. But I often take the mask off in flight (unless required for the airline or country), airplane air is not bad once the flight is stable. No COVID so far.

A lot of commercial buildings have beefed up their air, but people density is the thing. I've sadly skipped out on music festivals the past few years (outdoor)... the idea of being packed in like sardines has a whole new meaning post-COVID.

[plush pier]

Keep it that way! I got it and it was devastating. Even being up to date on vaccines and in healthy condition.

[umbral phoenix]

yeah, it can come from anywhere, glad you're past it now

[plush pier]

Could’ve done a lot with that.. month and a half+ last year

[dusty citrus]

Then there's me the big brain who wasted money on heilung concert, and decided to not go for the same reasons

[plush pier]

It plays a heavy role in my risk/reward calculation for some activity.

[rapid geode]

i prefer soldering without masks. i live on the edge.

wait, what are we talking about again?

[delicate stream]

And then there’s unknown variables like how your body might react if you do get COVID, with or without vaccination. Might be sick for weeks and then deal with long COVID for months (or forever?)… or you might be asymptomatic. Or just feel like it’s a brief cold, like me

[rapid geode]

yesterday i had to explain to my brother that the pcb inside a guitar pedal is worth like 25 cents, and not $300. oof. haha

[rapid geode]

assuming it stays around like the flu, mutating as it goes, it will be decades before we really understand it enough to treat it correctly. but for now we just do the best we can

[delicate stream]

Yup…

I just quit the whole “getting sick” thing. I’m over it

[rapid geode]

ha

[delicate stream]

Currently fighting with my flesh trying to lose cohesion…

[rapid geode]

i havent been sick in 3 years. i just dont go out

my brother works in a grocery store, and has 2 shool kids. he is sick every other week

[blissful roost]

Personally, I'm quite happy that I've had covid 3 times.. and bounced it in a few days.

No long term symptoms.

[delicate stream]

I work in a school but I don’t get sick XD

[delicate stream]

We’re in the lucky category

[blissful roost]

Indeed

[rapid geode]

with 5 years olds slobbering on everything?

[blissful roost]

One of my wife's aunts died. 😔

I suppose we should be grateful that she was the only one.

[delicate stream]

One of the best physics YouTubers, Physics Girl, has been fighting long COVID… she can’t even take care of herself or get out of bed. Her poor husband has been by her side for months now… they had to call in friends and family to help care for her

[rapid geode]

i dont kow anyone personally that has had it very bad. no hospitalisation etc. lucky

yeah i saw the physics girl / simone update

😦

[delicate stream]

Yup. Altho I’m not directly working with the small germ factories, so my exposure is limited

[delicate stream]

I hopped on for $5 on her Patreon right away. Not much, but every bit helps until she’s back on her feet

[blissful roost]

I work in a busy office... We've had a few close calls, but no-one died as a result of getting covid.

Almost lost one guy, but he made a full recovery.

On the plus side... He did quit smoking as a result.

[delicate stream]

Silver lining

[blissful roost]

I still haven't quit. Lol

I really should.. the expense is crazy.

[rapid geode]

3 people have died in the history of my office. one cancer, one aneurism, one car accident. luckly no covid do far.

[blissful roost]

A lot of people are quitting because of the cost... It seems like a worthwhile approach if you can't educate people on the matter.

[rapid geode]

smoking should be banned. banned i say!

:x

also anchovies on pizza. ban that too. as a rider on the same bill. :x

[blissful roost]

Anchovies... Gross blobs of oily salt.

[delicate stream]

I agree with smoking ban, but not anchovies. Leave the little fishies alone.

[rapid geode]

ill be glad when they go extinct due to fish farming

[blissful roost]

There's too much tax income for a smoking ban.

[rapid geode]

not when weighed against health care costs

but anyhow

[delicate stream]

I want anchovies now

[lapis dirge]

That looks really good!

[lapis dirge]

And that dumped me directly into uncanny valley.

[delicate stream]

lol

[tardy badger]

My sister had a Mast Cell Attack due to Covid and developed a ton of food allergies. She has to eat vegan now

[delicate stream]

Yikes

[tardy badger]

Yeah

No eggs, no cheese, almost no meat, certain breads

[lapis dirge]

I have some very strong reservations on lifelike robots ..... not from a West World point of view but to the human companionship replacement aspect .... could be the downfall of humankind.

[blissful roost]

I don't have enough knowledge to argue that point.

[rapid geode]

vegan? oof. i wouldnt wish that on anyone

[blissful roost]

I sure wouldn't eat a vegan....

..sorry

[raw jasper]

Yikes, that virus truly is full of surprises :(

[lapis dirge]

I like bacon too much

[delicate stream]

I want robots to look like robots

[rapid geode]

bacon and cheese. i can be vegan if im allowed those

[delicate stream]

Also I want my hand to stop bleeding ahhhh

[tardy badger]

There’s vegan bacon, sausage, cheese

[lapis dirge]

Like R2D2

[rapid geode]

NO THERE IS NOT!

😛

[delicate stream]

I mean, humanoid is fine, I just don’t want them to try to look HUMAN

https://tenor.com/view/kinkytwt-stan-twitter-robot-gif-24012409

[tardy badger]

Lol there is, my sister eats it

[delicate stream]

This is fine

[rapid geode]

that is unethical

[tardy badger]

At least she has a chance to somewhat enjoy things

[raw jasper]

lol, why in the world would that be unethical

[delicate stream]

I like this because it has recognizable human features, but isn’t trying to be human, and can’t be confused for human

[tardy badger]

I want iRobot robots

[raw jasper]

...and the discussion reaches roombas again

:P